Bringing it around full circle

[LetItGoAlready]

Congrats on 40 LIGA! I look forward to reading about the fun activities you find!

Great stuff, Liga. Hardcore exercise followed by hardcore relaxation can be good for that. Let's hear some of those fun ideas you come up with!

Thanks, Joel and Norman, for your support and encouragement. I've been keeping up with exercise, but much of my relaxation time has been spent nervously watching the outcome of the US presidential election, which I think it's fair to say has put the entire country on edge. Now more than ever I need an outlet for my nervous energy, so this morning, I followed through on my promise and put a few things on the calendar, including a day off from work and a brief backpacking trip later this month. I'm also planning to build a small garden shed for my backyard, so that should keep me busy as well. 

43 days in the books. Be well, all!

[LetItGoAlready]

Day 47. A couple of days ago, I misunderstood the deadline for a deliverable at work and got a firm wrist slap from my boss for making the mistake. As always happens, when I sense that someone is less than pleased with my performance at work, I turned the resultant feelings of shame into a full-throated attack on self. I replayed the scenario over and over again in my head, forcing myself to relive it, criticizing myself mercilessly for the mistake, and plunging into an abyss of self-reproach and fatalistic thinking. I barely slept a wink that night and didn't do much better last night either. I did not turn to P for relief fortunately, but I know that situations like these are ripe for slips, so I'm keeping one eye open for the aftershocks of that event (or two I guess since I haven't been sleeping much). 

What this tells me is that I still have a lot of work to do in the self-compassion department. I even meditated yesterday on the idea of compassion towards self and others, and I think it helped somewhat. It's just one aspect of a growing list of things I know I need to get better at if I want to have any hope of transitioning into a healthy and balanced life free from P.

On the plus side, I can feel good about the fact that I allowed myself to feel those feelings instead of reaching for a temporary cure (P) to push them back down again. I do have to wonder, though: is it really helpful to "feel those feelings" when the feelings are unhealthy and rooted in shame? I mean, at some level, accepting blame and responsibility for a mistake is healthy because it motivates us to do better. But is it healthy to beat yourself to a bloody pulp when you make a mistake? I really don't think so, which is why I need to double down on those feelings and challenge rather than accept them.

Overall, I'm happy to be free of PMO for another day and wish all of you strength in the day ahead. Be well, everyone. 

[jixu]

Going over the work incident again and again more likely just shows that you are a conscientious worker who cares about his work product and reputation.  Hope you can move past it and get back on an even keel at work!  Take care! 

[LetItGoAlready]

Going over the work incident again and again more likely just shows that you are a conscientious worker who cares about his work product and reputation.  Hope you can move past it and get back on an even keel at work!  Take care!

Thanks, Joel! Things are better on the work front, but on the reboot front... I'm back to Day 1 unfortunately.

What happened is that I finally gave into curiosity and paid the ultimate price. Back when I was using regularly and didn't give a damn about recovery, I made the unfortunate decision of saving images from my searches on Bing to a cloud account. I saved probably a thousand or so images and they appeared in a "my saves" folder, which was just a click or two away from the search landing page. My curiosity got the best of me a couple of days ago when I got redirected to the Bing search page (something I would never do intentionally because I generally avoid Bing), and I made the bone-headed decision to check the "my saves" folder.

You can guess what I found there. The hilarious thing is that I convinced myself If I opened the folder and looked at the contents, I would be doing myself a service. My curiosity would be satisfied and I would no longer wonder whether the images were still in the folder. Once I discovered the trove of images, I decided that I would just delete them without looking at them, which was an ill-conceived notion from the start. (I can see that now with a clear head.) After that, the wall came down and the story goes downhill from there.

On the plus side, there's much to celebrate about going 48 days without PMO. It's the longest I've gone without M'ing or looking at P since 2015. So, I'm disappointed but hopeful that my progress will continue to improve.

Be well, everyone.

[Leonidas]

Well congrats for the 48 days!  That alone stands as a remarkable achievement.  The slip can actually serve now as a 'warning cue' for next time, as it will make it highly unlikely that you will slip from 'checking folders on Bing' in the future.

That milestone aside, what are some other changes in your life that you perceived while the stretch was on?  Did you notice any overall changes in mood or disposition?  What about in the ways you related with others?

Take care,

[Joel]

Yeah, I know the lie and trap of 'saved content' well - so tricky. Needs a no tolerance policy. Hopefully you can move forward with this knowledge. Next time you know it's a lie. 50ish days is great, a lot of healing has been done if you can get back on the path. getting accountable quickly is a huge step in this. post soon!

[LetItGoAlready]

Thanks for the support, guys! I'm still on shaky ground this morning, as I've found myself veering into the territory of compulsive "testing" of my internet filter and the Bing search engine. This didn't result in me looking at P but it is still is a Level 3 behavior for me, which means it's a type of behavior that usually precedes an immediate or eventual relapse if I allow it to continue.  Since it's a Level 3, per my plan, I need to immediately seek accountability for it, not wait a few hours or a whole day to out it like I've done in the past. I will continue to check in as needed, but hopefully I've crushed this compulsion to test (which is really the compulsion to discover P images that haven't been blocked by my web filter) and can shrug it off for the rest of the day. Every time I ignore the thought and allow it to pass, it gets a little bit weaker.

Leo -

That milestone aside, what are some other changes in your life that you perceived while the stretch was on?  Did you notice any overall changes in mood or disposition?  What about in the ways you related with others?

Some good questions here. I've felt varying amounts of stress since the COVID lockdown due to issues related to my job and other external events. It's hard to pinpoint what the emotional trigger was exactly, but I did notice that I was starting to let my guard down in some areas, which is always a bit worrisome. I'd say my mood as of a few days ago was highly anxious, so that could have been the cause or the start of it. Relating to others is an area of my life that needs a great deal of work.  Outside of my immediate family, I don't have much in the way of support network, so I know that's something I need to improve on. It's a little challenging to expand one's friend network during the lockdown, but I can (and should) start planning for ways to stretch myself socially once life here goes back to normal.


Joel -

getting accountable quickly is a huge step in this. post soon!

I do think it's important to get back on the horse quickly and not to extend the relapse. What I'm finding challenging at the moment is that my addictive brain wants me to wallow in it for a little bit longer. And if I give myself permission to do that, I will lose days and possibly weeks of time to a cycle of relapses and half-hearted reboots. I really don't want to get stuck in that cycle again!

[Phineas 808]

I remember you as ‘Cosmo’ from before (2014-16). I was on here under a different name (Leon). I just want you to know that you inspired me to return for a while, to get my current situation under control.

I’ve been following your story and hope to be of help to each other.


Best regards,

Phineas.

[LetItGoAlready]

I remember you as ‘Cosmo’ from before (2014-16). I was on here under a different name (Leon). I just want you to know that you inspired me to return for a while, to get my current situation under control.

I’ve been following your story and hope to be of help to each other.

Thanks, Phineas. I'm so glad I inspired you to return and I'm very pleased that our paths have crossed again. I wish I could say that I've been able to keep to the straight and narrow path since my first post on this site 6 some odd years ago, but unfortunately I've gone off the path more times than I can count. I look forward to following your story and being of help to you in any way that I can. 

[Phineas 808]

Thanks, Phineas. I'm so glad I inspired you to return and I'm very pleased that our paths have crossed again. I wish I could say that I've been able to keep to the straight and narrow path since my first post on this site 6 some odd years ago, but unfortunately I've gone off the path more times than I can count. I look forward to following your story and being of help to you in any way that I can.

Thanks, brother. It's mutual, grateful that someone from 'back in the day' is currently here, and slugging it out.

No shame, LetItGo, these ingrained habits are hard to break.

I've had some good successes, but I honestly think I haven't cut deep enough, and so here I am. But at least I'm clear on exactly what it is, and what I need to do. I know many may not agree with me, but, thankfully, untangling one's sordid past isn't necessary. It's a matter of habit change, that is all. For me, I changed this habit- but not deep enough. I had several 'micro-habits' that surrounded this. I use the analogy that I've kept this beast on ICU in my heart, on a drip-by-drip feed, to resuscitate it at my self-gratifying convenience.

For me it's a heart-issue, and so it involves being honest with myself. And that is not always easy...

Likewise, any time you need my help, just let me know.

[LetItGoAlready]

 I couldn't agree more that it's a matter of habit change. The beast has been living on borrowed time long enough. It's time to take this patient off life support once and for all, my friend. Let's do this!

[LetItGoAlready]

Day 0.

Brothers, I'm exhausted. Spent. Tapped out. Depleted... I know that in the "soldier on" society we live in, and with the pressure we face to live up to an impossible masculine ideal, admitting to being exhausted and overwhelmed by life is seen as a sign of weakness.  At this point, though, I have to say: I really don't give a flying fuck. Because the fact is, I'm overworked, I'm underslept, and my life is completely out of balance. I cannot deny what I'm feeling, and I'm not just going to push it down and keep it bottled up inside any more. If it makes me sound like a whining pussy, so be it.  I honestly don't care anymore.

Last night, after enduring a day packed with eight back-to-back meetings and weathering a series of restless nights, I could feel that life was getting out of balance. I was super wound up and anxious, like a ball of restless energy was spinning around inside of me. But rather than finding something healthy to do that would restore the imbalance, I made the completely knuckleheaded decision to act out with P. I binged until after midnight, climbed into bed with my wife, and managed about 4 hours of sleep. So, now I feel even worse. And guess what? I have another day packed with meetings ahead of me. Oh joy!

This has led me to do a bit of soul searching this morning. Mostly asking myself why. Why, when I'm at the point of total exhaustion, do I choose to turn around and stick a knife in my own back? (This is probably physically impossible, but it seemed like a good metaphor when I said it in my head ) Why do I do this repeatedly, again and again and again? Why can't I see what I'm doing clearly? Why am I not learning and applying what I've learned? WHY?

It was just by sheer luck that I happened to tune into Porn Free Radio this morning and heard the message I needed to hear. The answer to "why." In the episode I was listening to, the Dobber was talking about the two opposing instincts that men have that lead to imbalance: the instinct for rest and the instinct for distraction and escape (to avoid pain and discomfort). These opposing instincts have confused us into thinking that the way to get the rest we need is through distraction and escape. Even when our bodies are telling us that we're fatigued and tired, and common sense would seem to tell us that we just need to get some rest, we do the opposite, believing that the way to rest is through distraction and escape. Dobber credited this idea to the 17th century philosopher and mathematician Blaise Pascal, who had this to say about men who are torn between these two instincts: "They do not know that it is the chase and not the quarry they seek."

First of all, MIND COMPLETELY BLOWN! What wisdom this dude had! And in the 17th century no less! It's a little hard to get my head around the idea, but it does make sense in a weird kind of way.

So, where am I going with this? I've come to realize that my current plan of seeking accountability when I'm feeling triggered (or in a situation where I could be triggered) isn't helping with the central issue: feeling out of balance. So, from now on, when I'm tapped out and can feel myself getting pulled towards distraction and escape, I'm going to do the opposite. I'm going to do something that restores the peace and calm to my life and get some much-needed rest.

Be well, everyone.

[Phineas 808]

First of all, LetItGo, I'm so sorry to hear of your recent setback. But it sounds like Providence set it up to where you'd hear that message about imbalance...

That is huge, because it underlines this latest episode, not as a failure, but rather as an opportunity to learn a much needed lesson.
 

Last night, after enduring a day packed with eight back-to-back meetings and weathering a series of restless nights, I could feel that life was getting out of balance. I was super wound up and anxious, like a ball of restless energy was spinning around inside of me. But rather than finding something healthy to do that would restore the imbalance, I made the completely knuckleheaded decision to act out with P. I binged until after midnight, climbed into bed with my wife, and managed about 4 hours of sleep. So, now, I feel even worse. And guess what? I have another day packed with meetings ahead of me. Oh joy!

This has led me to do a bit of soul searching this morning. Mostly asking myself why. Why, when I'm at the point of total exhaustion, do I choose to turn around and stick I knife in my own back? (This is probably physically impossible, but it seemed like a good metaphor when I said it in my head ) Why do I do this repeatedly, again and again and again? Why can't I see what I'm doing clearly? Why am I not learning and applying what I've learned? WHY?

It was just by sheer luck that I happened to tune into Porn Free Radio this morning and heard the message I needed to hear. The answer to "why." In the episode I was listening to, the Dobber was talking about the two opposing instincts that men have that lead to imbalance: the instinct for rest and the instinct for distraction and escape (to avoid pain and discomfort). These opposing instincts have confused us into thinking that the way to get the rest we need is through distraction and escape. Even when our bodies are telling us that we're fatigued and tired, and common sense would seem to tell us that we just need to get some rest, we do the opposite, believing that the way to rest is through distraction and escape. Dobber credited this idea to the 16th century philosopher and mathematician Blaise Pascal, who had this to say about men who are torn between these two instincts: "They do not know that it is the chase and not the quarry they seek."

I was reminded of the times my wife would go out of town, and I would take opportunity to 'act out'- even if I had a 12 hour shift ahead of me at work, I would still spend all night surfing and using, culminating in PMO.

When I was a little more wiser to my antics, I tried to catch it before it 'trapped' me in an all-night cycle. Many times, to no avail. I would eveb set my timer to wake me up around 2:00 or 3:00 am, trying to trick myself into getting a little bit of sleep before I 'binged'. Sometimes this would work, and I'd actually end up sleeping through the night. But after a while, this didn't trick me at all, and I'd just start using right away, and so on....

I never realized this before about a needed balance between rest and distraction/escape. I may be a little slow here, by the way, how does the quarry versus chase relate?

BTW, I liked your little analogy above... et tu, Brute? 

[LetItGoAlready]

Hi Phineas -

Realizing now that I should have included more context for the quote above. Here's an excerpt from Pascal's work called The Pensées ("Thoughts"):

"...they do not know they seek the chase and not the quarry.   
 
They fancy that were they to gain such-and-such an office they would then rest with pleasure, and are unaware of the insatiable nature of their desire. They believe they are honestly seeking repose, but they are only seeking agitation.    

They have a secret instinct prompting them to look for diversion and occupation from without, which arises from the sense of their continual pain. They have another secret instinct, a relic of the greatness of our primitive nature, teaching them that happiness indeed consists in rest, and not in turmoil. And of these two contrary instincts a confused project is formed within them, concealing itself from their sight in the depths of their soul, leading them to aim at rest through agitation, and always to imagine that they will gain the satisfaction which as yet they have not, if by surmounting certain difficulties which now confront them, they may thereby open the door to rest."

[Phineas 808]

Wow! There's a lot in that quote, a clear depiction of our oft times empty pursuits, seeking pleasure instead of rest, thinking that we're obtaining the latter.

Thanks for providing the context. 

[Joel]

Yeh, great Dobber episode - they always feel so timely for me too. I think Blaise Pascal also said “All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone.” So pertinent.

I'm feeling a little spent at the moment too - but, like you, I think there's a way we can make it work for us in recovery. We really do need to care for ourselves and not fuss with anything except the low hanging fruit. Nofap is of course our priority, because we're just too tired and vulnerable to deal with the consequences right now. Let's find peace, quiet, and balance in the time we have for ourselves, and we can do more 'proactive' recovery when we can.

[Phineas 808]

Liga,

Hope you're doing well. Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers.

Joel,

I think Blaise Pascal also said “All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone.” So pertinent.

Indeed, very pertinent! In Stoic fashion, I'll challenge myself along these lines... As a rough example, instead of getting up to pee at the slightest urge, I'll wait it out- "Do I really need to go now?" So many other discomforts in life we can discuss, lol...

For this reason, many of the rebooters of yore used to take cold showers...! (no thanx).

Be well.

[LetItGoAlready]

Thanks for the support, guys! It's Day 4 for me, and it feels like I may finally be pulling out of my last nose dive. Work continues to be a significant source of stress, so I'm keeping an eye on that and have stepped up my self-care routine.

One of the better things to come out of my last slip was an action plan to address all of the different situations where I'm feeling triggered or I'm on edge emotionally. A common situation nowadays is to neglect self-care because I feel run down and would rather relax than go for a jog, but I know that's probably not the smartest decision for me to make. So, per the plan, when I notice that my self-care is slipping, the action I need to take is to re-commit to a minimum self-care plan of daily exercise and meditation. So far, so good with carrying out the action plan this week.

Joel -

I think Blaise Pascal also said “All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone.” So pertinent.

This is so true. Not only are we unable to sit quietly, but we enable that behavior by making sure that every room is littered with distractions.

I'm feeling a little spent at the moment too - but, like you, I think there's a way we can make it work for us in recovery. We really do need to care for ourselves and not fuss with anything except the low hanging fruit. Nofap is of course our priority, because we're just too tired and vulnerable to deal with the consequences right now. Let's find peace, quiet, and balance in the time we have for ourselves, and we can do more 'proactive' recovery when we can.

Well said! Nofap is a priority, but there are other habits that are just as important for us to maintain in parallel, self-care being one of those.


Phineas -

I'll challenge myself along these lines... As a rough example, instead of getting up to pee at the slightest urge, I'll wait it out- "Do I really need to go now?" So many other discomforts in life we can discuss, lol...

I can relate to wanting to challenge the mind's need for distraction. I often choose not to run the radio when I'm in the car just so I can sit quietly with my thoughts. I've done some of my best thinking while sitting in a car!

[Phineas 808]

Liga, good on recommitting to self-care!

That’s one of the best benefits for me from meditation is to be comfortable with silence, to even long for quiet and solitude.

Often times, unless I find something I’m interested in the moment, radio noise can be irksome.

[LetItGoAlready]

Thanks, Phineas. Your support means a lot to me. I'm back to Day 1 after dealing with another setback. I got to about 7 days clean but then had more stress at work followed by some holiday stress, which I did not deal with in a healthy way. My latest relapse reached a medium level in terms of severity, but I wish I'd stopped it sooner.

What I've learned from my latest slip is that if I ignore my plan, I do so at my own peril. There were several opportunities for me to check in and seek accountability, but I chose not to because I reasoned with myself that I was too tired and would get to it later. I also ignored a few warning bells that I should have paid more attention to.

Going forward, I need to get back to the basics of following my plan, staying accountable, and doing the daily self-care that I need to do to keep myself on track.

Be well, everyone.

[Phineas 808]

Thanks, Phineas. Your support means a lot to me.

Definitely, Liga! That's what brothers are for!

I'm back to Day 1 after dealing with another setback.

One thing I've been thinking about, especially in the lieu of my own struggles since June (when I started recording days again), especially between Sept 27, Oct 31, and Nov 6, that yes, I lapsed 3x, but among those 3 misteps, there was a total of 59 out of 62 days of no PMO. My point is, that 10 steps forward (so to say) and 1 step backward...

So, as you know, it's not really 'day 1' for you, because you're going forward, and you're spending less time with PMO, and that can only mean improvement, betterment, and success!

I thought this through, too, just in case my own [bad] habits kick in...

My latest relapse reached a medium level in terms of severity, but I wish I'd stopped it sooner.

I'm trying to learn that, too. That as soon as I notice my behaviors (although maybe benign in appearance) going that direction, I'll try to address the issue, or at least change my frame of mind. As you know, though we perhaps can stop at any point, if we don't catch it early enough, habit kicks in...

About the rest, it's perhaps a matter of resolve. I say this, because those smaller behaviors I notice about myself, if I just let them be without changing them, or addressing them in some way, it may tend to weaken my resolve, and then it's all too easy for me to fall into the ingrained habits...

You'll do great, brother! 

[Joel]

Work stress followed by holiday stress?? What a vicious cycle! Well done on getting accountable, and your plan sounds great. Let's make this one count.

There were several opportunities for me to check in and seek accountability

yeh, got to reel it in before the body takes over and the intellect still has a chance.

[jixu]

Back to the basics and sticking with the plan-sounds like a good idea and reminder for us all.   Back to the battle-let's do this bro!

[workinprogressUK]

What I've learned from my latest slip is that if I ignore my plan, I do so at my own peril. There were several opportunities for me to check in and seek accountability, but I chose not to because I reasoned with myself that I was too tired and would get to it later. I also ignored a few warning bells that I should have paid more attention to.

Going forward, I need to get back to the basics of following my plan, staying accountable, and doing the daily self-care that I need to do to keep myself on track.

Seems that we can always see it coming, but it often happens all the same. Whether we're spiritualist, scientific, logical or sheer bloody minded in our approach, we see / hear / smell / sense the warning signals but go out into the darkness anyway. We all search for wisdom or inspiration but it does just seem to be a case of whether, in any specific moment when we're triggered to go back out there.... and there are many, many moments... it matters more to us to resist than to give in. Sometimes I've been worn-down and could no longer find the energy to resist. Other times I swallow-dived gratefully back into P. Did you read much about "Emotional Relapse" as the first stage, LIGA? Maybe something in that for you. The pascal / Dobber thing, I listened too as well. Matt didn't sound on the most solid ground in trying to explain it, which was unusual for him. Just struck me as "human condition" stuff; the grass is always greener. Not sure when he talks about rest he means lying down and shutting your eyes. High likelihood that I'm wrong but I think he's just sweating that argument that we're never satisfied and always think we need something else, after which point we'll be contended.

Anyway - great work on getting back up on your feet so fast, and not letting yourself nose-dive. Stay tough, mate. You're in my thoughts. 

[LetItGoAlready]

Phineas, Jixu, Joel, and WIP - Really appreciate you coming by and lending your support.

Phineas -

One thing I've been thinking about, especially in the lieu of my own struggles since June (when I started recording days again), especially between Sept 27, Oct 31, and Nov 6, that yes, I lapsed 3x, but among those 3 misteps, there was a total of 59 out of 62 days of no PMO. My point is, that 10 steps forward (so to say) and 1 step backward...

This is a good reminder to keep my perspective. It's usually the first thing to go when we slip! Proportionally, over the past few months, days lost to P have been microscopic compared to days without, so I'll continue to keep that in mind. Thanks!


Jixu -

Back to the battle-let's do this bro!

And this is a good reminder to keep up the fight. Let's bust some skulls, friend!.....Too much?


Joel -

Well done on getting accountable, and your plan sounds great. Let's make this one count.

Thanks! Seems like we're on the same trajectory at the moment. Wishing you well on your 7-day goal.


WIP -

Sometimes I've been worn-down and could no longer find the energy to resist. Other times I swallow-dived gratefully back into P. Did you read much about "Emotional Relapse" as the first stage, LIGA? Maybe something in that for you.

Haha! "I swallow-dived gratefully back into P." What a visual! I wasn't familiar with the term "Emotional Relapse" before you brought it to my attention, but now that I am, I can finally put a name on something I've observed about myself - that I often feel stressed right before a relapse. Thanks!