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Messages - Murgatroyd

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Ages 40 and up / Re: Murgatroyd’s Journal – The Rest of the Story
« on: March 05, 2021, 07:42:56 AM »
Well.  Day 90.  Still alive.  Let the analysiys of Phase 1 begin, and the determination of what Phase 2 will be....

Thanks everyone for your support and comments.


Ages 40 and up / Re: Murgatroyd’s Journal – The Rest of the Story
« on: February 14, 2021, 11:34:17 AM »
Just remember Captain Kirk was knee deep in pussy, not Spock. Trust me your wife is not suddenly going to have a moment where she say “you have presented compelling data on how the total duration of our sexual activity has gone from n to n/2 based on a combination of decreased frequency and duration. These numbers have made me very horny, now drop those pants and let me fellate you vigorously”.

My wife says, "There is truth in that...."

At least that's what I think she said, giving that I was rolling on the floor laughing from how funny your post was.

Brilliant wit, my friend.  Thank you!


Ages 40 and up / Re: Murgatroyd’s Journal – The Rest of the Story
« on: February 14, 2021, 08:00:27 AM »
There is a lot to your posts, and a LOT that I disagree with, but I will offer this advice, you need to decide whether your goal is to have a better sex life with your wife or if your goal is to prove yourself right and prove her wrong, because the two are mutually exclusive. Sex is an emotional act for women and convincing her with logic and data will never work. In fact it will probably have the opposite of the desired effect.

I would highly recommend you get this book:

I also suspect that if you read it you will scoff at the validity and continue to frame yourself as the victim of your wife and continue to brow beat her with logic.

Goodness, the assumptions are flying around like skin care reps at an AAD meeting.

Contrary to your suspicion, I scoff at the validity of work being passed off as "scientific" when it's not, when an author's objectivity is suspicious usually due to an obvious yet not disclosed conflict of interest, or when the work has not withstood peer review.

In the case of this great book you linked to, "The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011," for goodness sake, it's a work of humor.  I am sure I will love the writing of any author described as:

"a ... humorist and family man with a one track mind ... a "Mixed Marital Artist" combining a variety of relationship approaches from evolutionary psychology ... sociology, biology, life experience, romance novels, crappy women's magazines, far too many books, blogging, behavior modification and cheap porn."  "The author is also aware that has painted himself into a corner by writing a book on monogamy. At around 112,500 words, it is the longest chastity belt in existence. It only chafes a little."

A "mixed marital artist."  Heh.  Very punny.  I will read it out loud to my wife!  Or, if I am feeling like living dangerously, I'll ask her to read it out loud to me!  I'm looking forward to that.  Thank you for the recommendation!

@Discobolus, friend, this is not about right and wrong.  After 30 years of marriage, all of these lists are very long:

The times when I was wrong
The times when she was right
The times when I was right
The times when she was wrong

Keeping track is not the point.  As my other friend @Aussie said, it's about compromise.  The point is, you can't have the right conversation until everyone is in agreement about the details.  Denial is a terrible thing.  It's not helpful if she won't own her own feelings and desires.  Now she has.  Now we can move forward.  Ideally, together.

I don't believe I'm framing myself as a victim.  Is the chastity belt chaffing?  Yes.  Am I frustrated?  Yes.  Can things be better than they are?  Yes.  My first choice is for them to be better with her.


Ages 40 and up / Re: Murgatroyd’s Journal – The Rest of the Story
« on: February 14, 2021, 06:44:57 AM »
Life is about compromise murgs, you know this.

No offence taken.  God I wish we could get a beer together.  Next time I'm in Australia, I promise.

Maybe I have not been clear about how much compromising has already been done.  A lot of compromising has already been done.  I have given a lot, and she has too.  At the end of the day it's about meeting in the middle in a place we can both live with.  Some place with ham and bread :-)

Here's the problem: She doesn't like it when I look at naked pictures of other women.  She wants me to stop doing that.

Instead of telling me how she felt and what she wanted, she gaslighted me into thinking I must be sick in the head*.

It turns out I'm not sick in the head* after all, but that doesn't change the fact that she wants me to stop looking at naked pictures of other women.  Now she has taken ownership of her feelings and her desires and stated them clearly.  Fair enough.  Now we can move forward with finding an actual solution to the actual problem.

When you're trying to solve a problem it helps to know what the problem is.

If you try to solve something else ... then it doesn't solve the actual problem.

Glad we cleared that up.

Captain Obvious,

*For anyone reading this who is insulted by my use of the term, "sick in the head," please accept my apology and this clarification.  My partner never used the actual phrase "sick in the head."  This is what it sounded like inside my head when she would say "I think you may have a problem with addiction" and "your brain may have been rewired by something terrible."  Which sounds to me more like "Your head is all fucked up because you can't stop yourself from doing a horrible and pathetic thing."  This is why I am here, in the Reboot Nation, to learn how much I have or have not been affected by being a long-time masturbateur and consumer of porn.  Today is DAY 71.

Ages 40 and up / Re: Murgatroyd’s Journal – The Rest of the Story
« on: February 12, 2021, 08:18:05 PM »
So you completely disregard what others suggested
Mate you need a wake up call

Let's be fair.  I said clearly that I took it under advisement, and ultimately I acted on it in the way you thought I should.  To say I completely disregarded what you and others suggested is incorrect.  And let's not forget I'm on Day 69 of my reboot, so I'm living the dream, I guess.

As I have made clear, I like to think about sex and be sexually stimulated for some amount of time.  Let's call it n.  She was good with that back before we got married.  Fast forward 30 years, and now she says she only put up with it, but really she only wants to do it, say, half as much, say  n/2.  Are you saying I should shut up and just accept whatever she wants to give me?  That does not sound like the healthiest way to conduct a relationship.  I have offered her a menu of options for how we can deal with it.  She's looking at the menu.  We are exploring other ways to rescue her self-esteem.  I suspect this is a bigger issue than just porn use.  It would be naïve to think all I have to do is stop masturbating and we will ride off into the sunset happily ever after.

No offence taken!

Your embarrassing creepy-old-man pal,

Ages 40 and up / Re: Murgatroyd’s Journal – The Rest of the Story
« on: February 12, 2021, 01:58:17 PM »
Hey murgs,

 I also suggested she was feeling insecure about your porn use, multiple times.

Yes, you did.

I'm not sure what the mechanism is, but under the heading "all opinions are not created equal," when you said it, I took it under advisement.  I had already read the paper about a link between low self-esteem and porn use, and I was aware it could be an issue, but frankly, I didn't think it was necessarily up to me to fix it, especially since the paper stated it could not establish causality.  In other words, the paper specifically did not say that when I guy uses porn, it causes his partner's self-esteem to go down.  We all do things that make other people upset, but that is not always, in and of itself, a reason to deprive oneself of something one enjoys.  My wife has a saying, "People in hell want ice water."  Which is to say people can say they want whatever they feel like.  That doesn't mean it's up to you to give it to them all the time.

To put it another way, the fact that she feels insecure when I look at naked pictures of other women is her problem, and I feel very strongly about this because I bend over backwards to make sure she owns the throne of my life.  In short, I believe I have addressed her insecurity as much as I should have to address it.  I am not having sex, or any kind of relationship, or even talking with other women, and I tell her with words and show her with actions how incredible I think she is in every way as often as possible.

Obviously the "naked pictures of other women" part is some kind of show stopper for her in spite of it all.  That really is unrelated to any conversation about addiction or rewiring.

What I needed was a good swift @Gracie kick in the ass.  "In a nice sort of way."  @Gracie's opinion, being that of a woman and everything, generally counts at least 2x what any man thinks, right?  I also needed my wife to own that it was her problem.  When these two things happened, I thought I could be a good guy and stop looking at naked pictures of other women to make her feel better.

Recall I was not convinced that I was suffering from some kind of mental illness or that porn was evil.  I still am not convinced.  I have managed to side-step that whole debate and instead choose to do something nice for my wife.  That works for me.

But yeah, you did suggest she was feeling insecure from the start.  I would like to think there is room in the conversation for how I feel, too.


Ages 40 and up / Re: Murgatroyd’s Journal – The Rest of the Story
« on: February 09, 2021, 08:37:45 PM »
@jixu and @Bilbo you guys are too good to me.  Thanks.


Porn Addiction / Re: Penis Damage From PMO?
« on: February 08, 2021, 01:49:08 PM »
a dull stinging ache kind of thing that went away in a minute or so.

Hope you're well, @Aussie.

Guessing here - from the "use it or lose it" school, I know sometimes in the past when I have made my ejaculation muscles work hard, they ache briefly (just like you described - a dull stinging ache that lasts for a short time and goes away).  My guess is, those muscles were a little out of shape.  The same way you hurt after you exercise when you've, well, waited too long since the last time, and you, well, kind of hammer to convince yourself you can keep up and all that.  The sex and O version of being a "weekend warrior."

Anyway, I wouldn't over-analyze it yet, and I would pay attention to whether it fades or continues with subsequent ejaculations on your personal reboot journey.  Which of course is where your mileage may vary depending on your goals and the limitations you impose for the journey, right?

Stay healthy,

Ages 30-39 / Re: Rebooting my life
« on: February 08, 2021, 01:35:43 PM »
What you described would also be my own personal Kryptonite ... but only if you choose to look at it like that (I personally have a long-standing weakness for exes where the relationship didn't end because she broke up with me).  Is this the same woman (or different?) you said you were seeing back on December 17th?  Are you currently attached or unattached?

Over the last couple weeks, I have learned that my wife/partner feels insecure when I use porn, which is the actual reason she wanted me to stop.  She just felt better saying that I was the one with the problem.  Ultimately she owned it, which I found to be a great relief.  So I am doing it for ... her, and that makes it much easier for ... me.  As @Gracie wrote on my Journal, "Good for you giving up porn for whatever the reason."

So - you, @Bigox - 91 days - excellent!  I don't know at what point you can say you're cured and you can set about trying to have sex with a partner, but if it was me, I might be getting pretty close to that point.  I'm not doing a HARD REBOOT here, as I am married for 30 years and enjoy sex with my wife/partner regularly.  At our house we're just trying to clear out the porn noise.  You're younger and have more noise from it.  I'm an old dog, and it's a different problem for me.  I am quite glad to not be going through all the really awful stuff I am reading about that has been happening to younger men.

Keep on keeping on, @Bigox!


Ages 40 and up / Re: Murgatroyd’s Journal – The Rest of the Story
« on: February 05, 2021, 04:50:52 PM »
Thanks again, @Gracie.

Porn Addiction / Re: Am I In Denial?
« on: February 03, 2021, 10:55:18 AM »
Breaking news.  If you care, check my journal.


Porn Addiction / Stimulation ONLY from Vibrator
« on: February 03, 2021, 10:54:12 AM »
Howdy.  I have been masturbating since 1972.  My wife thinks I have Delayed Ejaculation (but except for her opinion, I don't think there is anything wrong with me).  Something perhaps notable is that from 1972 to ... I guess about 2005 or 2010 I only used a vibrator to masturbate.  After I had broken or otherwise burned up about 7 of them over those years, I decided to try my hand.  Seems to work fine.

This was an old-school type of vibrator, generally sold for "aches and pains."  It had two speeds, and came with multiple attachments, but I only used one - a funnel-shaped attachment that would cup nicely against my frenulum.  Some of the ones I cooked also had "heat" which I never used.  I would generally masturbate for 30 minutes to an hour multiple times a week.

Talk about a serious buzz!

My question is, did I break myself by doing this for - guessing here - 3,000-5,000 hours?  Is my cock less sensitive than it is supposed to be?  How would I know that?

Thanks in advance for all your witty responses.  This is a serious question  :)


Ages 40 and up / Re: Murgatroyd’s Journal – The Rest of the Story
« on: February 03, 2021, 10:43:26 AM »

Completely unexpected, last night there was some kind of catharsis.  Perhaps it was because my wife assured me:

"I never said I would divorce you unless you stop looking at porn."  I remember differently, but on this one I am not going to split hairs: I must have heard her wrong before.  I stand corrected.

Another thing that happened was, if you consider an addiction a mental illness, then her approach, which has been up until now:

You are mentally ill.  Save yourself.

... is a whole lot less motivating than what she confessed last night to be more accurate, as I have gone on and on about here lately:

When you look at porn, I feel insecure.  I'm asking you to stop.  For me.  (I think I owe @Gracie my thanks for writing about this a few days back, and my wife read @Gracie's post)

Now instead of The Drug Police out with a warrant because I am sick in the head, it's a committed partner sharing her feelings and letting me know there is something I can do to help.

I respond really well to opportunities to be heroic.

It seemed to ker-chunk my entire brain, and I will take that any way I can get it.

Today I am floating on air.  I actually have a gnawing blade in my ribs (self-imposed) to load up all the drives with all the dirty pictures and movies, and move them someplace where they are harder to get to.  Then ... maybe I will rearrange the furniture.

Of course, moving the drives away is only part-way through a multi-step process of getting rid of them permanently.  I know this.  Cut me some slack.  I LOVE the idea someone here said about changing the furniture around so The Masturbation Room becomes completely different and its power to trigger its victim is reduced or removed.

Day 60, man.  Light at the end of the tunnel. 

Honey, if you're reading this: Thank you!  I love you!


Ages 40 and up / Re: Murgatroyd’s Journal – The Rest of the Story
« on: February 02, 2021, 03:46:28 PM »
You are not the first person to ask it like this.  Answer: Yes.  The negative impact that my porn habit could have is, if I decline her request to stop, my wife says she will end our marriage.

I'm not convinced this is a symptom of "addiction."  As @Gracie pointed out, my wife may think that my staring at other women is not cool, and she feels like she is not good enough or attractive enough.  It could be that my wife thinks that if I stop looking at porn, somehow it will stop the voices in her head.

I understand these are issues for many people.  There was actually a study on it.  But let's be honest: This is not a litmus test for addiction.

This is the point at which other guys say, "Are you an idiot?  Give it up."  Yeah.  I get that.  I am rebooting, right?  Day 59.  Check.  Here is what I have told my wife:

"I will be happy to give it up.  Before rebooting, I was spending 6 hours a week looking at porn.  If you will give me another 6 hours a week naked in bed touching each other with no distractions, I will stop looking at porn."

During the reboot period, we are logging the time we spend naked in bed touching each other with no distractions.  At the end of the reboot period we will look at the data we collected and decide what to do next.  We're calling this part Phase 1 and what happens during Phase 2 will only be determined at the conclusion of Phase 1One possible outcome is we won't need a Phase 2 because we will have given each other what we wanted.  Stranger things have happened!

We're nerds, yeah.

Ages 40 and up / Re: Murgatroyd’s Journal – The Rest of the Story
« on: February 02, 2021, 02:20:16 PM »
Thanks @jixu!

It's kind of like, which came first, the chicken or the egg?  If you ask me, then:

1. I don't think I have a problem


2. I may not be the right person to ask!

That's why I'm asking others.  I have heard it said that "it's not an addiction if you can quit at any time."  This is my first test.  I intend to reboot for 90 days to prove that I can quit at any time, and therefore prove that I am not addicted.  Or confirm I am addicted by failing the test.

However, I am not as naïve as to think that this will pass the smell test with the Reboot Nation so I am asking people to tell me what I don't get.  The most frequent response is: "Sometimes rebooting takes longer than 90 days.  It can take many years in some cases."  This strikes me as a polite way of telling me that unless I stop looking at porn, then I rebooted wrong. Then when you ask people how you know if you're cured, nobody really knows.  Others say "you are never cured, it's like an alcoholic," and this is the point where I begin to wonder if the emperor actually has no clothes.  So I offend some readers by saying, "I don't think I have a problem.  I like porn, then I get a stiffy and have sex with my wife resulting in satisfying orgasms all around."

This is the point at which I then become synonymous with an arrogant prick to some, and told "You're obviously not addicted" by others.

So far, the most we can come up with is, I definitely have a porn habit, but then it gets divided about whether or not I am actually addicted.  I have another thread going in the "Porn Addiction" forum entitled "Am I In Denial?" which has quite a lively discussion going.  In fact, the only reason I wrote this Journal (way too long, thanks for reading) was because some other Reboot Nationalists asked me for more background detail.  I hope to either confirm or rule out that I have an addiction problem.  Unfortunately mentioning my affair drags both myself and my wife through the mud for different reasons.

As you're noticing, there is not agreement on how porn addiction is defined.  In another post I wrote this:

To be clear, I am not in denial about having a porn habit.  Where the train comes off the rails for me is when I consider hallmarks of porn addiction I don't fit the profile:
  • My habit is modest
  • I can control it
  • I don't let it run my life
  • I don't have withdrawal symptoms when I abstain
  • My cock works
  • I have a great time in bed with my wife multiple times a week
My conclusion: It's possible I am lost or blind or both.  I am open to being shown what I cannot see already.

Hope that helps, @jixu.


Porn Addiction / Re: Am I In Denial?
« on: February 02, 2021, 12:28:02 PM »
Murgs - reverse the situation, how would it make you feel if your wife was masturbating to porn looking at all these ripped up younger guys....

Love ya, @Aussie, but you're not furthering your case by assuming I would not like it if the shoe was on the other foot. 

I try really hard to not be a hypocrite.  A rule in my life is to never expect someone else to do something I would not do myself.  This rule has served me very well.

In your example above, I might just ask her if I could help in any way  :P

I'm being serious.  I'm not just saying that to save face.  I'm pretty sure if you were to ask my wife she would say, "Yeah, I know that about him, and it drives me crazy."  She would say it with exasperation and an eyeroll.  We are only coming to terms with a disparity in our sexual appetites after 30 years.  Porn is just caught up in it.

  • 1. Come to terms with it
  • 2. Give up and throw in the towel
I am not ready to throw in the towel.  I'm a man.  But I can change.  If I have to.  I guess.  That said (the "Man's Prayer" from the Red Green Show), I'm hoping to change as little as possible.  Aren't we all?  Just calling it like it is.


Porn Addiction / Re: Am I In Denial?
« on: February 02, 2021, 11:50:15 AM »
Dear Mr. M,
Good for you giving up porn for whatever the reason.  As a partner, I can tell you that encouraging a husband to walk away from porn is a mine field in our brain.  For a long time quick worked because there wasn’t enough time for him to conjure up some seen before scenario.  And eyes open was something that was important.  As time goes on, some things calm down, some do not for us.  Staring at other women was not cool.  I still do not like it, because it was a thing for him.  And please know, you can tell us how gorgeous we are etc.  but if you have chosen porn for so long, we will feel we weren’t good enough, attractive enough etc.  Simply because we weren’t the only one.  Talking and communication are key.  I have read your article at the end of your comments.  Very interesting reading.  Last note, if your wife says she has pain, believe her.  And it is not always easy to find a doctor that listens and helps.  Hang in there!

Thanks @Gracie.  I appreciate your comments.  My wife already read them and is grateful to you. 

You seem to imply that I ignore or discount my wife's pain.  What is interesting is that whereas I don't believe I do, my wife agrees with you, that I do discount her pain.  I believe the day-to-day lifestyle choices in our marriage accommodate keeping her as pain-free as possible when it comes to pain caused by my penis.

With regard to my comment that her doctor informed her about a therapy for thinning tissues with age, my wife felt I painted her badly.  She says two different doctors each told her that she is not a candidate for hormone replacement therapy.  I didn't remember that, and I owe it to my wife to clarify it.

You may have seen my footer about this great piece "The Female Price of Male Pleasure."  The fact that women have endured pain on account of men is not a new idea, but not simple, either.  It is complex and steeped in what I would call, for lack of a better term, historical inertia.  It is a travesty?  Is it an abomination?  You bet it is.  The first step is recognizing that it is real.

We are messed up as a culture when we bombard ourselves with "no pain no gain" and "you should be able to go all night."  Certainly I have subscribed to these erroneous fallacies for my whole life until recently, aided by women who also say they agree with them.  The article is about how women have essentially given in to what men want through history, and it results in female pain, which they then grin and bear, thereby perpetuating the cycle.  The article makes a good case for why women have felt like they have to give in to men throughout history.

That's not good.  I hope you can see that I get all this.  It's a bad state of affairs.  I am trying to figure out what to do about it besides become a monk, you know?  I thought porn was a good way to not hurt my wife, = problem solved!  I can tell from your comments that you don't think I am correct.

If you have not seen my Journal I just posted yesterday, I'm giving you a heads-up that it will possibly make your brain explode in anger.  That said, I look forward to continuing this excellent streak of valuable dialogue.  Thanks in advance.


Porn Addiction / Re: Am I In Denial?
« on: February 02, 2021, 06:21:08 AM »
As promised - Journal started.  Go to the 40+ section.  It's called "Murgatroyd's Journal - The Rest of the Story" or something like that.  Not very original but to the point.

@joepanic - interesting comment about "power struggle."  My wife has started reading my posts last night (uh-oh) and said "I never thought it was a power struggle" but I was going to say you might be on to something.  Now she and I will ... struggle ... over it.

How interesting.


Ages 40 and up / Murgatroyd’s Journal – The Rest of the Story
« on: February 01, 2021, 06:15:52 PM »
Greetings to all.  I’m following Gabe Deem’s instructions, making a journal, and telling my story.  Oddly, I’m not here because I believe I am addicted to porn.  I’m here because I think it is possible I may be addicted, but I don’t know and am trying to figure it out.  Bear with me!

I’m a straight guy, 62 years old, and married for 30 years.  She is my second wife.  I am her third husband.

First, a little housekeeping.  It has been brought to my attention that some Fellow Nationalists here think I am acting like an arrogant prick.  Of course, they have all been quick to say they can tell I am not actually an arrogant prick.  Nevertheless, I have been writing various things in various Reboot Nation Forums which, if readers didn’t know better, they might mistake my writing for the work of an arrogant prick.

I am rebooting since December 6, 2020.  Today is February 1, 2021.  Today is Day 58.  It is not a hard reboot.  I am abstaining from viewing porn and abstaining from masturbation.  I have sex ending in orgasm with my wife frequently.

Glad that’s settled.  My story:

I have wanked since 1972, starting at age 14.  At times over the past 49 years, I have sometimes wanked more, and sometimes less.  Over those 49 years, I can still count on my hands the number of times I have ejaculated twice in one day (i.e. less than 11 times in 49 years).  Occasionally I thought I might try to swear off wanking, and I succeeded, but then I started up again some years after.  That happened a couple times – once for 2 years in 1978, and once for 5 years in 1991.  Since 1996, I have felt no reason to stop.

I can say with certainty that the trigger to restarting in both cases was multiple months of being sexually unhappy, coupled with a sense that nobody else was going to fix it for me, so it was up to me.  My solution was to masturbate.  It was successful in that it reduced my degree of sexual unhappiness.

Despite a little unfounded guilt as a youngster, I have never considered this a problem, on the contrary, having learned to read in 1963, I have read a lot of stuff that described masturbation as “normal.”  Come to think of it, the only stuff I ever read prior to finding YBOP that said anything like “masturbation is bad” also included stuff like “…and you will go straight to hell with hair on your palms.”  After I developed a sense of reason, I dismissed these as most likely being not credible.

For the record, as a published scientist, I feel YBOP’s credibility is as solid as it gets (clearly Gary Wilson’s opponents in this are driven by pop-psychology and, how shall we say, “Big Porn”.  Plenty of conflict-of-interest, no disclosure, and little if any peer-review.  This equates to undermined credibility in the world of real science.  Someone should explain this to those people).

Potentially notable, and I will write about this in another post: I stimulated myself using only a vibrator from 1972 to about 2010, preferring it to my own hand.  Now, for the past 11 years I have done it by hand.  I should clarify I also had partnered sex regularly starting in 1977 and continuing to the present.

Prior to 1996, all my wanking material (i.e. “porn”) was printed matter (I put it in quotation marks only because in those days it included things like swimming pool ads with an early foray into drawing my own pictures of naked women in my youngest years, before getting my license to drive).  Not surprising, when I re-grouped in 1996 (age 38), I began to dabble using the internet to find porn.  No more swimming pool ads.  I quickly learned it was no longer necessary to rely on printed material, and digital material had greater potential.  Wanking had gone paperless!  Save a tree. 

The highest internet speed I have ever used for porn is what I have today: a whopping 4 MB/s.  In 2015, Federal regulators in the USA defined “high-speed internet” as a minimum of 25 MB/s.  So my speed today is less than one-sixth as fast as the slowest “high-speed” connection.  That’s okay with me.  I don’t stream, in fact I hate streaming because it is unreliable (hint: I live where everyone has at least one barn).  I prefer downloading, collecting, and using offline.  That probably makes me a Seriously Old Guy™.

So – despite PMO, I have had a better life than I ever dreamed, with lots and lots of real-life sex with actual women, living in nice places, traveling 5 continents, holding excellent jobs, and retiring at age 59 in 2017.  Executive Summary: I don’t fit the profile for a porn addict, and I don’t believe there is anything wrong with me. 

There I go, coming across as an arrogant prick again.

My wife says I must be addicted to porn and that it hurts me.  I’m here to find out if she’s right.  Her complaint?  I take too long to have an orgasm.

Now, any child of the 60s and 70s who has read Playboy (I’m that nerd who actually read the articles.  If you don’t get that joke, you shouldn’t be reading this as you may go straight to hell with hair on your palms), knows that men of that era were raised to believe that lasting a long time in bed was considered the goal, that “premature ejaculation” was BAD, and that the absolute gold standard was the ability to “go all night.”

Oh wait.  Men are still being taught that to this day.  I don’t need to over-analyze this except to say that my wife disagrees.  She has convinced me that prolonged intercourse hurts her.

Let me state clearly: I do not desire to hurt my wife. 

Even more to the point: I sincerely hope I do not ever hurt my wife more than I already have.

That said, life is messy and imperfect.  People hurt each other all the time, sometimes without realizing it.  Hopefully with knowledge and experience, it’s possible to screw up less frequently.

But wait.  I had an affair from 2009-2016.  If you ask me, it’s because she allowed herself to become less sexually interesting to me.  Of course there’s more to it than that.  I realize I am setting myself up for a shitstorm, but please try to stay focused.  I’m not here for relationship advice, or to have my goals criticized, especially with regard to things that happened in the past (See above, “I sincerely hope I do not ever hurt my wife more than I already have”).

I am here to find out if I have an addiction. 

In light of my extramarital activity, I wonder if my wife may have been affected in a way that might make “YOU ARE ADDICTED TO PORN” a more comfortable explanation for what happened than some alternatives.  Of course, she assures me that is not the case.  Right.  It’s messy. 

Additional information:
  • When my wife and I started seeing each other, we would fuck all night and do it again the next day.
  • At the time, we were both married to other people.
  • At that time I took just as long to have an orgasm as I do today.
  • After two years, we ended our existing marriages and married each other instead.
  • I ended my extramarital activity in 2016 voluntarily and came clean with my wife, after 6 meetings with a therapist on the advice of a mentor in whom I had confided.
  • The therapist commented she was surprised by my obvious and genuine tenacity to improve my marriage.
  • I found YBOP myself as part of my own ongoing effort to do better.  I shared the link with my wife.
As far as I can tell, when there is an extramarital affair, then everything bad automatically becomes the fault of the person who slept out, and the hurt person somehow becomes immune from any culpability.  In most cases, what really happened is likely to land someplace in the middle.  It will not be as cut-and-dried as either party would like to believe

I suspect that even if I rule out porn addiction, it will just get replaced by a new lightning rod.  If that is the case, I am not convinced that ending my porn viewing will result in a better marriage.  On the other hand, if I become convinced porn is hurting me, the path toward change, though not easy, has been well documented and tested, and I feel sure I can arrive at a good destination as thousands of others have.

With all due respect, I have done a lot of reading.  I have spent many quality hours clicking through Your Brain On Porn’s lists of thousands of links.  I’m not looking for more conversation about these things:
  • how porn is bad
  • the effects of porn on people who are young enough to be my sons or grandsons
  • how porn use by a man has been found to be concurrent with low self-esteem in his partner (the authors of that study clearly stated that causality could not be established by their findings) - I already know her self-esteem takes a hit when she thinks she is not the only thing I want
  • what I should want
  • relationship advice or opinions about my choices or behavior
  • how I come across as an arrogant prick
I will reserve the right to delete posts that go into that stuff, above.  On the other hand, I am vitally interested in the experiences of other guys I can relate to, and considered thoughts about whether or not I am actually addicted to porn.

The Reboot Nation is a civil place.  In exchange for civility in conversation I will not tell anyone here they should keep masturbating or watching porn, and I will refrain from talking about that kind of thing on other peoples' threads.  If they ask, I will point them here.

Thanks for reading this far.  Let the conversation commence….

Porn Addiction / Re: Am I In Denial?
« on: January 28, 2021, 01:00:03 PM »
@joepanic your writing gets high marks on the "this is useful" scale.  Much appreciated.  I appreciate all the points of view I am getting.  I apologize for the confusion, and I would prefer to keep questions in focus (like "Am I in Denial?") but the posts take on lives of their own, then off they go! in different directions.  In one case I moved a topic from one thread to another because it had morphed into something that fit better in a different place.  That explains some of the "going around in circles" - different guys asking me the same questions under different headings.  It has all somewhat melted down into one big public conversation about a bunch of stuff.  I have not started an actual journal.  I'm thinking a long exhaustive blast of Merg-blather could answer some questions, but I'm not sure people would read it.

I realize that much of my writing is not real porn-addict friendly.  Do I not belong here?  Getting asked to leave the forum because I apparently don't have a problem would take that arrow out of her quiver (ughghh did I say that out loud?  That does sound like a power struggle, you're right).  But only an actual arrogant prick would do that, and let's assume that is not the case.  I'm here to figure myself out, but I don't suffer the same symptoms that most of the other members of the Reboot Nation experience.  I continue to be grateful for all the ongoing conversations.

"In one post you state that your wife doesn't like having it as long as you do ... In a further down post you than claim to have a great time in bed with your wife multiple times a week..."

Both are true.  The sex I have with her is great.  I want more and she doesn't.  In the past one of my easy buttons has been to go jerk off to porn.  Now after 30 years she is saying that can't be one of the choices, and all the other choices are off the table. 

Therefore = What used to be easy is now no longer easy.

One possible conclusion could be that I am not so much addicted to porn as maybe I am actually a sex addict.  Could be.

As for reboot, you know I'm more than halfway through 90 days, and I am open to the possibility of going longer.  I would say I have put my money is where my mouth is, and I am serious when I say I am hoping to experience a miraculous neurochemical transformation as a result.  That could be a welcome game changer.  I am not expecting miracles, but I am pretty sure I will know more at the end of 90 days than I did before it started.

I don't want to get caught up weighing the ups and downs of the Porn industry.

"Can we get some details on how your sex life was 10 years ago or 20 years ago or even at the time you met?"

There are parts of the marriage / sex-life story that others will undoubtedly say are important and I am betting I will get accused of holding information back to make myself not look like an arrogant prick.  Nope - you know that is not the case ;) Just nobody's asked yet.  Now that you've asked, I think I will take that opportunity to write a more comprehensive journal about myself, and answer your questions in there, and undoubtedly some others nobody has asked yet.

I'm coming up on a long weekend of intense focused effort, and I have to get prepared.  I think I will take the next 4 days off from the Reboot Nation and start that journal on Monday.



Porn Addiction / Re: Am I In Denial?
« on: January 28, 2021, 08:11:23 AM »
It's a good time to mention that when my wife says I want more than I need, she connects my level of want to my porn use, as if to say, "If you didn't use porn, you wouldn't want so much."

Whereas I can see that this could be true, maybe, it might bear further study, I am not at all convinced that is absolutely is true, as if somehow porn use has been shown to be directly proportional to desire with real partners

Please don't tell me all the findings about how porn seems to have caused unrealistic expectations in some consumers.  I read. 

All I want is more time between the sheets, face to face, naked, with loving and enthusiastic genital involvement.  That is not what those findings are talking about.

Also, my math was bad above when I said I was at Day 55.  Today Thursday January 28 is Day 54.   Guess I should get me one of them counters  :D

Love you all.  Searching for answers.

Porn Addiction / Re: Am I In Denial?
« on: January 28, 2021, 07:54:42 AM »
Thanks @joepanic - your comments are appreciated.

There is definitely a place in my head hoping that I can turn over a new leaf and some kind of miraculous neurochemical transformation will just come along for the ride.

On the other hand, the logical one inside me just gets indigestion from the simple basics - she thinks I want more than I need, and she should only be on the hook for what I need.  But when I say I want more than she gives, her self-esteem takes a hit.  Rather than address the self-esteem (I have tried very hard to help her), she diverts the conversation to "you're psychologically ill - here look at all this stuff about what happens to your brain on porn."

I would be more inclined to compromise if she would own the possibility that she might also have some baggage.

My wife has seen the doctor.  The doctor says she is experiencing "thinning of the tissues with age."  When the doctor proposes treatments, my wife does not wish to pursue them, because she feels there are extenuating circumstances that make those treatments bad for her.  I don't expect her to risk osteoperosis just because I want to spend more time fucking her, but you'd think under those circumstances she might acknowledge she is making her own contribution to the situation.  Instead of owning her part in it, she is quick to divert to my porn habit.

[This note added later] My wife has been looking around at what I have been writing and she takes exception to that last paragraph, saying I am painting her badly.  She says two different doctors each told her that she is not a candidate for hormone replacement therapy.  My recollection was different.  I owe it to my wife to apologize for getting it wrong and to set the record straight.

So it sounds like you and I both sleuth around trying to second guess what our partners are actually thinking.

Porn Addiction / Re: How Old Are You?
« on: January 28, 2021, 07:27:38 AM »
Thanks @Chris, how old are ya?

Here's a question.  Be advised I have been told I'm perceived as an arrogant prick so no insult to you is intended, and please don't take it personally.

"sometimes, we don't just have the availability of a partner"

Are you saying that, from a practical perspective, if you have a partner then they should give you all you need?

My problem is I have a partner who doesn't want to give me all I think I need and her only comments are:

"You need more than you should," and "This is all you get whether you like it or not."

If I say "That doesn't seem right.  If you want me to only get everything I get from you, then you should be willing to give me all I want," then she plays the "That's not my problem, you're mentally ill.  Here, look at all this stuff about what happens to your brain on porn," card.  Sometimes she adds the not helpful, "There's a difference between what you need and what you want."  She does not address my actual question but it seems like her answer would be "I don't want to give you what you want."

So this is the stalemate - I had no idea I was sick until my wife decided she didn't want to give me everything I want.  Now that she's empowered and enlightened she's threatening to leave our marriage unless I quit porn which she is convinced has caused me to be a sex maniac. 

(When secretly the problem is if I use porn then her self-esteem takes a hit but rather than own the self-esteem issue, she asserts that I have an addiction problem - who is right?  Is it a little of both?). 

If I believed I was sick, I would feel more like the problem was me.

Short version - I'm not sure I'm sick, but I'm considering the possibility, which is why I am rebooting and keeping track of data - to have more answers and less subjective and self-serving speculation on both of our parts.  Compromise is possible, but only after I have figured out what it actually happening, because I don't think I should just take her word for it when she has a conflict of interest and I am not comfortable with her objectivity at this stage.


Porn Addiction / Re: Am I In Denial?
« on: January 26, 2021, 06:55:51 PM »
Hey @akpal2, thanks for joining the conversation. 

Be advised that multiple people have already told me I come off like an arrogant prick, and I have already agreed with them.  So - don't take it personally.  I love you, man.

Aussie will roll his eyes when I say that your description could apply to how some people are about college football.  That is not meant to be an off-handed or otherwise dismissive remark.  Can I leave porn behind?  I think I can.  Like many others have said on this forum, leaving porn alone has been easier than they were expecting.

When you ask about withdrawals, I don't suffer the ones people talk about as being the hallmark withdrawal symptoms of porn addiction, but I have to admit I do miss it.  Do I have an urge to go back?  Yes, but I also have an urge to make love to my wife when she gets home from work.  Does that mean I am addicted to making love to my wife?  I could be.  Is it a bad thing?

Now you see how lost I am navigating this.

@Aussie - old buddy.  For the record, I'm not a Trumpster (talk about arrogant pricks!), but I am a capitalist.  Sometimes the menu is limited.  But we digress (and I can't tell you how much your question made me smile!).

GREAT anecdote about your grandmother.  You guys down under are made of such great and tough stuff.  Good on you!  (See, I know that idiom - I used to work for REPCO!  I had Aussiebosses.)

We are already in therapy.  Unfortunately where we live, the therapists we have available are not as strong as they have in big cities, when it comes to sex and porn.

I understand about libidos (in her case it's not really her libido, it's pain from intercourse caused, she says, by thinning of the tissues with age).  She and I already talk about meeting in the middle.  The problem is we apparently don't agree where the middle is, and she doesn't want to budge until I stop PMO.  So I did.  Because I love her and don't want to lose her.

As I have described, we continue to experiment and track data.  Day 55 today.  We are calling it "Phase 1 of the Reboot." at Day 90 we will reassess and consider what we might try differently for Phase 2, based on what we may have learned for Phase 1.  It is possible that I will be completely rebooted, I will feel like she gives me everything I think I need, and we will be finished.  I won't know until Day 90.  If I don't feel that way, then I'm pretty sure Phase 2 will be something like continuing to abstain for another 90 days and see what happens.

Check that link in my signature.  "The female price for male pleasure" is a very real thing, and, as it says, women have not stood up for themselves which has contributed to their predicament.  (The piece gives all kinds of reasons justifying this behavior - basically from the all men are assholes school of thought).  The result is, when your woman wakes up empowered one day, you're blindsided.  My wife has gotten empowered.  It's frightening and attractive at the same time!

Porn Addiction / Re: Am I In Denial?
« on: January 25, 2021, 06:07:32 PM »
This response below was originally started on thread called "P usage for an addict" started by @Bigox but a few of us started getting off topic so I have brought it over here to my own thread.

@Aussie and @anubu are we all here?  Good ....

I cannot stress enough that no offence is taken and I am fully aware that I am selfish.

I should state the obvious - "the older you get the more you realize you don't know."  That's not a comment about your relative youth.  On the contrary, it's me admitting I really don't know what to do.

You make an excellent case for recreational use, which seems like what we're talking about.  If sex is one of life's little pleasures (putting it mildly, given all the talk about how a human male's chief end is to perpetuate, etc), I'm am giving my wife the first right of refusal.  I am happy to masturbate over her and her alone.  But she doesn't want me to masturbate at all, and wants my pleasure to be over with as quickly as possible (she tells me this now, after 30 years).  That says a lot.  I'm pretty sure I didn't sign up for that.

She says that what she wants is normal.  Another unanswered question - what exactly is normal?

To put it another way, my mom is 88 and has had a great life.  She drinks maybe a little too much wine.  She's very happy and does not think she has a problem.  I don't personally believe she's an alcoholic.  One brother agrees with me, another brother disagrees and thinks we should do something.  Do we:

Say nothing because it does not really seem to be a problem?
Tell her drinking is bad and she must stop before it's too late?
Tell her it might be wise for her to cut back on her consumption?
Tell her we don't want her to do it?

So many questions.

Love you guys.

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