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Ages 40 and up / Re: What I am doing is not sustainable
« on: March 28, 2015, 06:31:23 PM »
People on this site talk about "restoring" their normal brain chemistry.  But since I started screwing up my brain before I got out of puberty, I may have never really had normal brain function.  So I am wondering if my brain can actually heal to the point I can get pleasure and stimulation from the normal things of life, rather than having to put on a show for the world and then run off to a secret oasis for some "me time"  by self-medicating with dopamine.

So if there are some guys with 30+ experience in this mud hole, I would love to hear how you are doing.  I am really curious how much wholeness I could one day expect to find, or if the effects of re-wiring I have accomplished over the last 37 years are beyond repair,  I realize that convincing myself that it is "too late" for me is just another way to justify this behavior.  Crafty stuff.

I sincerely don't believe it is too late.  First, high-speed internet porn would appear to be much more of a problem in terms of causing the dopamine spikes and dopamine dependence that in turn causes PIED.  The "good old days" of magazines and VHS tapes does not seem to have caused the same type of problems.  Therefore, 30+ years of porn experience is probably not the right number in terms of the most serious impacts on your brain chemistry.  The really serious impacts are probably much more recent and are associated with our ability to repeatedly mouse-click on picture after picture and video after video of pornographic material.  (And by the way, I've probably had almost 40 years of porn experience, and it probably is very similar to yours.)

Second, it seems that the people who have the most difficulty recovering are younger men whose only exposure to sex has been internet porn, and who have had very limited experience with a real partner.  It seems that older guys like us who have had decades of sex with a real person have an easier time re-wiring their brains to the real-life partner once they eliminate porn.  So here is one instance, I guess, where it is good not to be in your 20's.   :)

I would suggest reading the article on "Rebooting Basics" and the website, and looking at the other articles and videos.  There is a wealth of information there.  I would also suggest that as a Christian, you get your hands on a copy of the book "Surfing For God," by Michael Cusick.  It deals with the porn addiction problem from a Christian perspective.  Highly recommended.

In any event, I think it is extremely doubtful that you are "beyond repair" and or that it is "too late" for you.  (Also recall that nothing is impossible for God, especially when we are doing his will, and that he can restore us beyond our imagination when we choose to be obedient to him.)  You just need to commit to eliminate porn, and be patient as your brain goes through the process of changing.  But it will change  and will "reboot" if you give it a chance.  Banish from your head the notion that it won't work from you.  This thought does not come from God.  You know where it comes from.

Porn Addiction / Re: Does sex undo hard work?
« on: March 28, 2015, 06:10:06 PM »
Sex itself does not undo 45 days of avoiding porn.  The problem is porn, not sex with a real person. 

Sometimes an orgasm due to sex can result in an after-effect (the chaser effect) that can sometimes drive a person early on in the reboot to want another sexual experience right away, and the natural inclination is to return to porn because of its ready availability.  At least that is how I understand it.  But our brains have been re-wired to prefer porn to a real person, so having sex with a real person, in and of itself, should not interfere with the process or re-wiring our brains back to preferring the real thing.

I would also suspect that the reason you feel anxious and depressed after watching porn is because you know that is not what you should be doing, and you are feeling shame and guilt.

Have you visited yet?  There are many good articles and videos to be found there.  Here is a good place to start.

Porn Addiction / Re: Lies that keep us stuck in Porn addiction
« on: March 26, 2015, 01:12:44 PM »
I'm just curious

Yeah, that's a biggee.

I read YBOP all the time. 

There is "why?" and there is "WHY?"

God designed sex to be between a married man and a married woman.  Watching other people have sex and masturbating is not God's design. Anything outside God's design is bound to cause problems. 

Also, just a little question while we're on the subject: if they did have that warning on their sites, would you have 1-read them? and 2-taken the warning seriously?

I doubt a lot of people would have read them, and significantly fewer would have taken it seriously.

That's a really good point.  We like to think that a warning would make a difference, and perhaps to a small percentage  it would, but I think most would ignore it.  Even if we believed the warning had some scientific basis, we'd figure it would not happen to us, or just a short peek won't hurt.

Indeed, lots of people on this site now have the facts about PIED.  Does every person who now knows the facts completely avoid porn and have no relapses?  Of course not.  It seems that the majority of people relapse one or more times.  There is another thread on the forum about lies we tell ourselves with respect to porn use.  If there was a warning, we would just tell ourselves that it does not apply to us, or we would take the risk anyway.

Ages 40 and up / Re: Really Screwed Up!
« on: March 23, 2015, 05:27:17 PM »
200+ days is awesome.  That's more than 6 months!!  Don't let one slip-up bring you down.  Focus on the victory you achieved and moving forward.

The porn industry would never voluntarily put a warning on their products to reduce their business.  They don't care about your PIED.  They care about money.

And the government will likely never force the industry to include such a warning, for a whole lot of reasons, including the fact that they are too busy trying to keep people from consuming diet sodas and Big Mac's.   ::)

Porn Addiction / Re: Relapsing
« on: March 23, 2015, 05:17:15 PM »
Yes, I'm just saying that, in our attempt to decrease the attractiveness of the women we fantasize about -- whether they be prostitutes, porn stars, exotic dancers, or whatever -- we should remember than a great many of these woman are victims, or have had very difficulty childhood situations or experiences (e.g., child abuse, foster homes, etc.).  Most of them have had it much tougher than we have.

So rather than decreasing the attractiveness of a woman in the sex industry by thinking of her as a "crack whore," to use a common label, I think it would be better for recovery purposes to view each woman as someone's daughter who has likely been victimized either by child abuse, or rape, or has been forced into the industry by sex traffickers, etc.  It would be better to view them as human beings who, like us, have also made some bad choices, or have had situations forced upon them.  I think that can also help change one's desires to take advantage of such women in one's fantasy life.

Porn Addiction / Re: Help!!
« on: March 23, 2015, 11:57:39 AM »
I think that when when we're trying to avoid PMO, it is a good idea to evaluate carefully our activities.  Some things, like taking pictures for your husband, which might be harmless if you were not in the midst of your current struggle, can be a trigger.  So I would avoid it because it  got you aroused, and  -- big problem --> your husband was not there.

Think about the things that are potential triggers and avoid them.  Avoid activities that get you aroused when your husband is not with you, and make sure he is present whenever you do something that is likely to cause arousal, and try to confine your states of arousal to intimate times with him.  I think this will help.

Also, when you are alone, don't let your mind focus on sex on porn, etc.  Re-focus your mind and occupy yourself with other thoughts and other tasks.  Also, take a look at the articles on about how to reboot and avoid PMO.  Lots of good tips there.

Don't worry about them.  Erections that "just happen" are not a problem; in fact, they are arguably a good thing.  It is when we only get erections due to porn (or porn fantasy and such) that we have an issue.  So it is not the erection that is the issue, it is what causes it.  That's also why morning wood is not something to worry about.

Porn Addiction / Re: Relapsing
« on: March 23, 2015, 11:44:06 AM »
If you are fantasizing about a filthy crackhead prozzy slut getting spit roasted on a computer screen then that might be classified as a relapse.

Yes, I would say that fantasizing about prostitutes is bad -- whether it is a woman that chose to use drugs and then got into prostitution, or whether it is a girl that by violence or duress is a human trafficking victim  forced to provide sexual services to others.  (I have a relative that works to aid victims of human trafficking, and it is amazing the high percentage of prostitutes that are trafficked.)

Porn Induced Erectile Dysfunction/Delayed Ejaculation / Re: gave in...
« on: March 22, 2015, 05:57:12 PM »
any advice guys? i feel like shit

One suggestion:  make a note, as detailed as possible, about how exactly you feel now that you have relapsed, and keep it handy.  Next time you are tempted you can pull this out and remind yourself about how badly you felt afterwards.  We often forget this after it has been some time since we relapsed.  I think if we could have perfect recall of how we felt when the last time we relapsed, it would really help us avoid the next slip up.

Porn Addiction / Re: Have been trying for years only to fail
« on: March 22, 2015, 05:49:00 PM »
needhelpfast, first of all, welcome to the forum. 

While it does take individual commitment to change, and there is no "magic pill" you can take, there are a lot of resources here that can help you.  Take a look at the articles and videos on the website ("YBOP"), particularly the article on "Rebooting Basics," and the links therein.  There is a lot of good information there on how to eliminate porn and reboot your brain.  Also, take a look at the success stories on YBOP and on this site to get some tips as to what worked for others.

Also, we can support each other on this site.  So perhaps think about starting a journal in the appropriate age section, so you can track your progress, make notes about what causes you to struggle, etc., and so others can offer advice and support, and answer any questions you might have.

Yes, you have to do it, but we are here to support and help you, and I'm sure you can help and encourage us as well.  That is what this community is all about.  :)

Hopefully some others will offer some helpful suggestions.

Porn Addiction / Re: Relapsing
« on: March 22, 2015, 11:18:34 AM »
I think it depends on what is the object of your fantasy.  Fantasizing about porn you have seen in the past is different than fantasizing about (or reliving in your mind) a sexual experience with a real woman.

danger, every person is different.  My MW returned very quickly once I realized what porn was doing to me.  It only took about a week once I got off the porn.  And I really did not have any withdrawal symptoms like mood swings, etc., after I decided to get off porn.   Yet, I have no doubt whatsoever that the ED I was starting to experience was due to porn, and the reduction and then the elimination of porn is gradually resolving the ED issues.

This is a long way of saying that staying off the porn will very likely help your ED -- but it might take some time -- even though your MW returned very quickly. 

So just stay off the porn -- and be patient.   ;)

Porn Addiction / Re: Relapsing
« on: March 21, 2015, 01:24:36 PM »
Imagine I didn't watch porn for 2 months, and I decide to have fantasies about sex for just 2  minutes just to test if my erection gets any better, would it take me all the way back to day 1?

It would not take you all the way back to day 1.  There is a danger that, when we start to fantasize about sex for a little bit, we can start falling down the slippery slope towards a real relapse, but I don't think one slip up wipes out progress you make.

Also, imagine we watch a film in class with a sex scene, and I am basically forced to watch it, would it also be a relapse?

I don't know what kind of class would show a film with a sex scene -- I'm hoping it was really just the suggestion of sex, and was not real soft core or hard core sex.  If so, I would wonder what that teacher is doing.  But, in any event, suggestions of sex or simulated sex scenes are common in mainstream movies or on cable TV, and I don't consider watching them (i.e., they are there in the movie, and it is not something you sought out to get stimulation) a relapse.  It is something to be careful about, particularly if it is likely to excite you, but we pretty much get hit by sexual stuff all day long, and there is not much you can do to avoid everything.  I would think that a real relapse is when you intentionally return to watching what we would all consider to be porn. 

I think the fading away thing is part of it.  I also think that perhaps some people who have had some success don't want to publicly declare it, because of the feeling that they might not be completely healed, or they realize it can be a lifelong struggle.  If you're the superstitious type, you might think "I don't want to jinx it," or if you're more philosophical or spiritual, you might think of it as "pride goeth before a fall."  Or perhaps others don't want to feel like they are boasting -- even though I don't think any of us would see it that way.

I know I had some very quick success in terms of curing my ED issues once I reduced and then eliminated porn, but didn't post it because (1) I wasn't sure if it was a temporary victory over PIED, (2) I didn't want to feel like I deserved any credit given my past usage, and (3) I didn't want to make guys who were not seeing results with PIED feel bad that I seemed to recover so quickly.  And also, I do feel like I could slip back any moment, and so to some degree I don't feel like I've had complete success.

LOL.  I posted when danger was posting, and I see he and I had some of the same thoughts.    8)

I would think that engaging in a sex with hookers and escorts would not be a good way to learn to relate to the typical woman one encounters in life.  (And that's putting aside the fact that many such women are in that situation due to sex trafficking, child abuse, etc.)

It also appears that frequent M during the early stages of a reboot might not be helpful for younger rebooters.

I would try to stay away from M for a while, and hookers and escorts permanently, and rewire yourself to having a normal relationship with the type of real woman that you encounter in your everyday life at work, school, the grocery store, etc. 

And as far as inferiority and confidence goes, these are just self-fulfilling prophecies.  Some guys are confident, because they act confident.  We're all not that much different when it comes to women, and rebooting oneself to "normal" sexuality and eliminating porn will probably help a great deal.

Porn Addiction / Re: Is my reboot gone?
« on: March 20, 2015, 10:45:08 AM »
I don't agree that it is better to avoid sex entirely-- at least not as a general or absolute rule.  We're trying to "rewire" our brains so that we prefer, and get excited by, a real person rather than porn.  The problem is porn, not sex.

It appears that some might benefit from avoiding orgasm during the reboot, and that just "fooling around" with a partner might be helpful for some, while avoiding orgasm.  And one has to be aware of the "chaser effect," that feeling that one wants to M or watch porn after an orgasm.  But for many rebooters, it appears that sex, and even orgasm, with a real person can be an aid to a reboot.  Some people cannot avoid sex and orgasm for 30, 60, 90 days, and doing so, while avoiding porn, could just make a full reboot a practical impossibility.  As has been often said, the rebooting process is an "individual experiment," and what works for one might not work for another.

These articles on the YBOP site discuss sex during the reboot.

So, now I'm worried that this sex have messed my reboot giving me a dopamine spike too similar to my old ones.

Again, the real issue is porn, not sex.  And the issue is not dopamine from sex with a person; the issue is dopamine (especially repeated hits of dopamine) from internet porn.

Ages 40 and up / Re: Reclaiming My Life!
« on: March 19, 2015, 12:54:19 PM »
Chile and olaf, a couple of additional thoughts about this tendency we have to grumble about our difficulties in this life - a tendency most of us share to varying degrees.  First, a wise man once pointed out that, as Christians, this life "is as bad as it gets."  Think about that for a moment. That is a promise God gives to all believers.

Second, it is instructive to read about the wanderings of the Israelites in the desert and their movement into the promised land, as set forth in the last half of Exodus, and in Numbers, particularly Numbers 11, 14, 16, and 21.  What is the one sin that the Israelites committed repeatedly?  They grumbled against God.  They complained about their circumstances, and what God had ordained for them.  And what did God say about their grumbling?  He considered it a rejection of Him.  See especially Numbers 11:18-20. Their grumbling was the cause of them wandering the desert for 40 years, instead of immediately entering the promised land. The lesson that comes through these chapters is that God considers grumbling against Him to be a serious matter, and we can lose his blessings if we persist in such a course of conduct. 

It is one thing to go to God in prayer with our complaints and our suffering, as Moses often did, and to explain to God how we feel, to share with Him our pain, and to ask him to help us and to show us his mercy and grace.  It is another thing to grumble against God and what he has ordained for our life.  This is an indeed a rejection of God.  It is saying that he is not entitled to rule our life, and that we should be the master of our life.  It is saying that we know better than Him.  It is saying that we are God.

I am not saying that it is easy to apply these teachings in a practical way when we struggle.  It is one of the things I struggle with the most in my life, and all Christians struggle in this area.  But if we find ourselves complaining or grumbling about something, we need to ask ourselves if we are grumbling against God, and rejecting Him.  It is one thing to complain about your favorite NCAA team not being able to hit a 3-point shot.  It is quite another to respond to certain circumstances by complaining that God doesn't care about me, or that God is not treating me fairly, or that God has harmed me, or God's plan for my life is not a good one.  Certainly, God forgives such thoughts, just as he forgives our use of porn, but grumbling against Him is a sin that he wants us to remove from our lives (just like he wants us to remove porn).

The other part of the equation is that God teaches us and shapes us in our sufferings and trials.  When we grumble against him about our circumstances, and reject his plan for our life, we waste our sufferings.  Our sufferings have a purpose, and God is teaching us and developing us into the person he wants us to be.  When we say to him, "you don't know what you are doing," and "I reject your plan for my life," the sufferings we endure will bear no fruit in our life.  Our pains and suffering and difficulties are bad enough.  What a shame to waste them and what God is trying to teach us.

Again, just some things to dwell upon.  As I said, I struggle in this area as well, and applying the clear teachings of Scripture in this area  is not easy.  But it bears remembering how God views our complaints against Him and what he has ordained for each one of us.

Ages 40 and up / Re: Reclaiming My Life!
« on: March 18, 2015, 11:17:19 PM »
God has ruined me, embarrassed and humiliated me before men.

ofal, you have said in several posts that you are a Christian, and yet you say things like the above (which, need I remind you, is a witness to others).  These thoughts don't come from God, they are not Godly, and they are completely antithetical to fundamental Christian beliefs and doctrine.  They are erroneous.  They are the product of self-pity. 

Believe me, I am not unsympathetic to the struggles you are facing in your life; I'm sure others are not unsympathetic also.  But I firmly believe that your attitude and viewpoint is probably contributing to how your wife and others close to you see you and treat you, and your feelings seem to be so negative that I would surmise that they cannot help but impact your chances of success in many endeavors, even simple ones.

If I matter to God, it must be as a babysitter because that's all I do.

That's an interesting clause for a Christian to use -- "if I matter to God."  I would like you to give me one Biblical reference that would support the notion that you don't matter to God, or that it is a matter of uncertainty.

You need to face the facts, brother.  All of these negative thoughts you have are worldly, and you are buying into them.  As lyon03 said, we are not judging you.  But as an objective observer, I wish you could hear what we hear.  You need to decide whether all you want to do is engage in self-pity (just like some will decide that they want to continue to live with a porn addiction), or whether you are willing to make an effort to overcome and conquer these thoughts that are killing your spirit (like you decided to kill your porn habit).

As a  suggestion, the first step in stopping the porn habit was to eliminate porn and believe that "porn is not an option," right?  Well, perhaps you need to eliminate from your mind any thoughts of self-pity and despair -- just don't let yourself go there -- and you need to say "self pity and despair is not an option."  And perhaps you need to stop venting here the negative thoughts you have.  Putting them down in writing probably just makes them more concrete.  Maybe you should start your own page here and try to write down a couple of positive things about you and your wife and your family each day -- only positive things.  It just doesn't seem to me that what you're doing now is helping you.

Just some thoughts.  I sincerely care about what I see you doing to yourself with your thought life, and others clearly do also.  I pray that God will bless you and give you peace and restore your trust in him.  But you need to meet him part of the way. :)

Here is some information from YBOP that I think could be helpful.  The first is on "Rebooting With A Partner."  The second is entitled "Rebooting Basics."

Yes.  My thought is that many people can be easily distracted, or actually lose productivity, due to email, texting, twitter, etc.  Many people become quite dependent on them.  (It drives me crazy when people drive and text.) Some people might need to learn to decrease the constant use of email, Facebook, twitter, etc.  This is probably a common issue with any sort of productivity tool, or anything that allows instant communication with friends, acquaintances, business contacts, etc.

But to suggest  we are "all addicted" to such things -- which is what the title of the article says -- is absurd.  Or to suggest that reading a short text gets the dopamine system "raging" for every user seems highly dubious to me. 

Also, recall that this is same publication that said that porn does not cause ED!.  So according to Psychology Today, don't worry about porn causing you issues, but be wary of that short text from your girlfriend saying she's going to be a little late coming over for dinner.   Gimmee a break.  ::)

That's my $.02.  But others might feel differently.  Again, if one is "addicted" to, or if one gets really charged up by, texting with friends, etc., then it might be helpful to eliminate or reduce such things during the rebooting process.  But I think it is draconian to say that anything that can cause a release of dopamine that comes from a communicative device or some form of media will interfere with one's reboot.

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