Something needs saying here....

Dear friends,

Something is occuring to me - becoming apparent. I am trying my best to leave porn alone. Yeah, not easy. Its hooks are quite deep. Im a mature man - 48. On this so called no fap journey, I have success, then failure , again and again. Good streaks of abstainence , then a few binges before i begin again in ernest. But , it seems to me that many men, including myself, really beat themselves down harshly if they relapase . It can be soul crushing. I will cut to the chase here and not draw this out. Yes, we all agree, porn is bad news. Addictions are serious and this whole no fap thing is a move in the right direction . BUT, can we as men give ourselves a slight bit of leeway here. Transmuting sexual energy is not fucking easy. We are human. I find increasingly in the no fap commuity, that the people we follow ( on you tube for eg ) make out that slipping up and having a tug is somehow the most despicable thing on the planet. It really isnt. It just isnt. Yeah its no the best thing either - but for fucks sake - can we relax these fucking made up laws ????? Jut my thoughts today ( yeah you giessed it .. I relapsed... damn.

Hey Asian_Stone,

First of all welcome to this forum and that you are fighting against your addiction. Second, you will never hear anyone here say to you that relapsing is bad/evil/etc.. We here understand that a relapse is a part of the tough journey towards and that it is not despicable, but an opportunity to learn. TO learn about your triggers and your emotions.

So please, feel free to share your journey here with us. You will not encounter negativiy or judgement, only support!

I look forward to read more about your journey!


Take care, and stay safe!

Thanks a lot bud. I really appreciate your comment there. As you could probably tell from my slightly angst ridden post (angry at myself) I had a relapse. I really began to wonder why I feel so utterly worthless when i do that. I mean, its worse than ever. The relapse on this journey is kind of like the pretty women on the screen somehow win..... its bad news .... triggers for me mostly involve wakng up with a hangover. Its always that way in fact. Im beginnig to thinkabstainence from booze maybe well be the way forward - but thats a whole new other area....... Anyway thanks again. Your kind and measured reply was very much appreciated ..... take care out there.

Hi Asian Stone,

It sucks that you had a relapse, but it's ok. It's part of the journey as I mentioned earlier. And the feeling down and low is something that is very common amongst us rebooters. I don't know the science behind it, but basically you want to stop PMO, but the addiction makes you crave it so bad. SO everytime you 'give in' you feel like you've let yourself down. And that is the shitty situation here. You want something, and you would feel shit for not having it. So you do it anyway and then feel bad about it. You will never win like that. And that specifically is one of the most nastiest things about this addiction. But you are not alone in this. And you can overcome it by rebooting (but it will be difficult).

You already said that you've identified a most common trigger; hangovers. You said that abstaining from booze might be a whole other area, but when you will read other journals on here you will find that quite some guys encounter the same trigger. And therefore they will abstain from alcohol or decrease their alcohol consumption. Sometimes only for the reboot time.
So if that is one of your main triggers, for the time being it could be quite advantageous to abstain from it.

But, a more deep question is; what do you feel while having a hangover? Obviously you have less defences, feel like shit, etc.. But what are your emotions at that point? This is something that is important to discover about yourself; why do you/did you feel the need to resort to PMO?

For now, take care and keep your chin up. A relapse is just another bump in the road toward a porn free life.
Take care, i am rooting for you!

Giving myself a hangover is to the chance of relapse, as piling horseshit on flowerbeds is to the chance of growing plants. As Shade says, that connection resonates with sooooo many of us. One of many reasons why I don't get drunk anymore. Fundamentally changed me as a person, but it's hard enough to stay off the P already, without doing stuff that I know undermines every component of my recovery plan.

You had a relapse... a slip, maybe.... and the world didn't stop spinning. The sky didn't fall in. Don't beat yourself up for it. The science is far from perfect and we're all fumbling around for a solution that works for us. I guess you just decide what you're prepared to sacrifice and what you're not.... and then try to stick to it the best you can. Hope you find your way, Asian Stone.

Once again, thanks a million for taking some tie there to reply. I can tell you that just you saying , your are in my corner, is quite a big thing. I feel now, like Im not in this alone - for the first time. Thats really something.
I have a clear stratgey lined up. I never ever use my phone, ever, for PMO. Never hace done never will I very much doubt anyway. I plan to give my laptop to a pal of mine for a couple of months. To be honest, its not only PMO, but i want a detox from the online world in general. I figure, if and when I wake with a hangover, there is nothing here for me to get involved with. Its my last chance saloon . If there is no laptop - then - there is no porn. Simple as that.
Im not even Pmo ing much these days - just once a week. But that is too much and my ED wont recover unles I reboot properly. I will update you in a week - I hope you stay with me on this. You are very kind . Much respect brother.

To Workinprogress. Thanks man. Yeah I guess hangovers are a very common trigger. Ive been like that for years. The laptop is going. My pal can keep itDrastic times call for drastic measures. I can keep a line with you men on my phone, which is NEVER used for PMO.  for me while I reboot. Im confident that once the tools are not in my house, then , I can probably manage this path with far greater ease, but I know it wont be easy.... thanks for backing me . Means a lot I can tell you.

Just an offhand comment:

As much as relapsing sucks as you said, it can also be a blessing in disguise.  You realize that things aren't "quite right" and that you need to make life adjustments.  It's easy to feel down and out the day after the fact.  But hindsight has shown me that it was in those particularly depressing moments that I finally enjoyed a clear vision: I knew I needed to do something different.  And by doing something different, it was not: "throw the modem out the window".  For me, it was something like: "join a bicycle repair community workshop as a volunteer".

Shake things up, one idea at a time.  Those tiny little steps add up over time.  Soon, the whole porn thing will seem like an after-thought.  But in the meantime, relapsing and feeling bad about it simply means that a part of you is calling for some changes!

Hey Asian_Stone,

how have you been doing the past 4 weeks? Has giving away your laptop helped your recovery? Please let us know how you are doing!

Take care my friend

Hi there,

Im back . Well , giving the laptop away helped, but , sadly, I began to do something I never used to do. I began to look at instagram chicks. yeah , a really bad idea. I kept doing week long no fap streaks , and then an inevitbale fail and relapse.

I have my laptop back now but Im doing pretty well just now. Im on day 11 of hard mode . Feel pretty good. Bought a bicylce and been really eating well. I feel positive and confident just now. Urges come strongly when I wake after a night of boozing. But I am staying strong. I just go out on my bike if things are getting difficult.

I know I have a long way to go , but , I feel pretty confident I can manage a really good streak . Im quite terrified of relapse at this stage. Im quite scared of the depression and feeling of failure if I do. SO - onward I go .... thanks for looking out for me my friends

I am a pretty confident guy 80 % of the time , and now Im flying high with absolutely zero social anxiety. I have noticed morning wood returning. However, my man down there is pretty lifeless during the day nothing stirring down there . I am 47 though so its not like im gonna get a boner everytime I sit with a woman.

My fiance is away for another 6 weeks , so I just hope in that time plus my 11 days already , I can manage something of a reboot . I realise its gonna be tough., and I may need longer , but , well , Im hangin in there.....

Hey Buddy,

Sucks about the relapse, but from what I've read you are already back on the horse. The use of physical activity as substitute for urges is excellent; it increases your overall fitness and reduces the chance of a relapse. Good job.

As for the waiting for your fiancee; you can always count on support on this forum!


Good luck, I am rooting for you

Thanks a lot buddy. Yeah Im on the horse and doing OK. Day 12 . Occasioanl urges in the morning but Im quite resolute at the moment. I feel good. I even look younger and my skin is beamng a little. Social skills are really something at the moment. I just cant go back. Not at this crucial time. Ive never been past 2 weeks . I will enter new territory from here. I realise a flat line may be heading my way. Im ready I think.....thanks so much for keeeping a check on me buddy ..... good man ..

Hi Asian_Stone, something you said about relapsing made up laws resonated with me. I was discussing law with my father the other day, we were talking about the prisoner's dilemma. A lot of work was put into standardising Chinese to be compatible with the ASCII standard back in the day, I was trying to tell him about how it was before that, with base five characters and binary full and broken lines for computation. He said we live in the 21st century, legacy information is redundant. The law is constantly evolving. It was the Japanese that solved the problem of the ASCII standard first. They now have two character sets and an alphabet, traditional chinese, traditional japanese and western syllabic characters, at least that's how I understand it. Translation is difficult, anything is permitted as long as you obey the highest law you know. I'm sorry you think that abstaining from PMO is a matter of law, in truth it is a matter of health, PMO can be healthy if practiced properly, but you have to know what you're doing, we are all here because we have failed to practice it properly, many of us for years, so don't worry about the law, focus on staying well and doing better. Cheers.

Interesting and welcome comment - thank you for that. To be honest, Im feeling really positive and have bags of energy just now. I had to fend off a few urges today, but i managed it. Im 2 weeks into hard mode. The future is looking good , as long as I dont fuck up and slip back to edging. It was edgin that has done this to me. I know this is the truth. I would at times spend 2 or 3 hours edging. That only really began in the last couple or 3 years. Im really hoping 6 to 8 weeks of hard mode may be all I need here. Two weeks down 6 or 8 to go ..... that is my current thinking anyway. It gives me a good chance. Gives me hope. Im doing well right now..... onwards....

Great to hear you doing good.

Asian_Stone said:

The future is looking good , as long as I dont fuck up and slip back to edging.

Click to expand...

Can you identify something in the quote above than can be improved?  It's like you want to chastise yourself if you 'fuck up'... Suppose the person watching over you was a gentler version of the harsh disciplinarian you think he/she should be... would a slip equate to 'fucking up'... or would it just be a slip?

Well, that may be the confusion here. Im new to "rebooting". Its only during 2020 Ive learnt about it. Thats because only really this year where my ED appreared properly. So, it terrified me. I cant figure how severe (or not) my case is. I only really fapped twice a week for the last 2 years. Probably more when I was younger for sure. But the last 3 years were usually 2 or 3 hour binges. Damage done. To answer your question, I have to be strict as hell here. If I begin to think, ah, a cheeky glance at ladies wont hurt , I run the high risk of another 2 hour binge. That would really fuckin piss me off - badly. For now, Im just happy to keep on track. A relapse now is almost unthinkable.

Day 14 . Relapse. Binge. 3 hours. Not happy. Not impressed. But not gonna kill myself either. 14 days is decent. Now I have to get back up and at least aim for 21 days now. Keep moving. Keep working . Keep rebooting slowly ..... life goes on . The last two weeks were great. Felt amazing. So - back to it.

Hi Stone, sorry you're not impressed and that you relapsed, there is a tendency to think of life on earth as being binary in this alphabetical world of text.

It's not actually true that binary was invented in China, only that the dark ages erased the memory of it in Europe until it was rediscovered by a mathematician named Leibniz after he studied the Yi Jing. Leibniz was a diplomat and philosopher and I believe he corresponded with Chinese mathematicians about the meaning of the text, but as far as I know he didn't actually translate it.

One of the things that has always puzzled me about the Yi Jing is why the number four is said to be unlucky, referring as it does to asking the teacher a question.

Four is the basis of imperialism, the most efficient number of labels with which to define a map, a mathematical fact, hence the cross of the Romans and the reason Christ placed himself at the centre.

I don't know if any of this interests you, you probably have your own beliefs, I'm not really sure about the holy trinity which I believe is an application of Pythagoras' theorem for right angled triangles which was known by all ancient cultures even before it was ascribed to the prophet of mathematics in Ancient Greece.

What day are you on now, surely not fourteen, I've managed over a hundred and eighty days before, so it is possible.

Wishing you the best of luck in your journey,

Keep up the good work,

Cheers.

I do fine that interestibng yes. Im very interested in ancient wisdom (lost knowledge) , the ancients in general. I find that stuff fascniating.Esoteric meanings, allegorihes etc. I have little clue about mathamatics though I must say. Your comment is intrigueing, and I have not made the full connection yet as to why it directly relates to relapsing to PMO.

Sadly Im on day one. Good news is, as I woke up just now, I jumped on this site , and not to glance at the girls . The temptation was there though. Myabe I have rewired a small part of my brain already, as my decision was to come here, and not "go there".

Thanks as always for support and watching out for me.

Take care out there.