Finally moving towards recovery!

PeaceOfMind062012

Active Member
Hey everybody!

I'm just new to this (like a lot of others), but I'm gonna give it a go. First of all, let me just say how greatful I am to Gabe for making this site, and for all you brave people out there for sharing your stories. Watching one of Gabe's video's was what really inspired me to kick the habit. And I've been thinking about quitting/trying to quit for a LONG TIME. I'm 28 now, and it's been something that I wanted to get out of my life since probably I was 20 or so.

So, about me - like I said I'm 28 and I'm finally feeling good about quitting. I was first exposed to P when I was 8 years old (my dad's magazines), and started M to P at that time too. As I was growing up I gradually became exposed to different forms of P including internet P, and people's personal collections. It wasn't until I went to college however that I gained more access to high speed internet P, and that's when it developed into an even stronger habit. I remember one of the things I was most excited about (secretly) when thinking about going to college was that I'd have my own laptop with which I could watch P! Yay! lol. It is such a powerful thing, that it has continued to keep me hooked until now, and admitedly I am still hooked, but I've decided to make the move away from it. Throughout growing up I DID have sexual relations with real women, so that at least helped wire my brain somewhat towards real people, and not towards P, but I must say that I definitely have problems with commitment to real people, and a strong urge to have many one night stands, or flings. I'd say that was partly shaped by the P in my life.

Through my twenties I've been a regular P user. I've gone through periods of not using it, but I'd say those periods lasted no longer than 3-5 months at the most. Looking back on it I now realize that I was probably smack dab in the middle of the flatline during those multi-month breaks, but didn't really know that it was a 'thing' and that there is a light at the end of the tunnel!! (That's another thing that gave me hope by finding out about this forum - the fact that MANY peope are going through the same thing, and that recovery IS possible, and I CAN get to a point where I am turned on by REAL women, and where I will have more drive in my life in general). The most frequent I would use P during my 20's was probably about 2-3 times a day for a period of several days, and then maybe take a break of a couple of days, and then go back to it. So, I'd say I'm about a moderate user, but I can definitely see that I will be so much better off when I am P free!!

SO.......my last PMO was around March 11, 2016 and I've been without P since that day. However, I have still been M pretty much once a day since then. I realize that I should take a break from that too for a time, but right now, I'm just patting myself on the back for going without P, and I think part of me is scared of the flatline, and wants to M just to make sure I can still get and erection and whatnot (which I CAN, so I'm pretty happy about that - that I still do have a libido, even if it's not a totally 'virile' one).

I find it hard to resist the pull of P, but I must admit, it is getting a little easier. Man, that information about neuro-science is SO SO SO helpful! Knowledge is power as they say. So I realize that the more you shift your focus away from P and M, and onto other things, the easier it is for your brain to heal. At this point I'm just focusing on staying away from P, and so far haven't put too much energy into focusing on new things (I guess the brain is a little lazy), but I realize that that is an integral part of it - to fill the void created by P with something new. I also realize that I as a person will pretty much ALWAYS be sensitive and susceptible to falling back into the P trap again. It's such a tricky addiction because it usurps your natural urge to have sex with real people (which is already very strong) and focuses it on P with can always give you more (of the screen), but not what really matters (love and nurturing). So I know that I will always have to be vigilant to my triggers from here on out in my life - hopefully that will get easier with time.

Anyway, thank you all so much for reading, posting, and supporting everyone else.

Peace!
 

PeaceOfMind062012

Active Member
Hey everybody!

Not sure if anybody is reading this, but i'll post anyway, cuz it's helpful!

So, I'm still 'clean' (haven't slipped up since March 11). But I definitely feel urges and stresses on the daily. I wonder if I'm just an anxious person, or if the background stress and anxiety is as a result of staying away from P and the withdrawl symptoms that that causes? Anyway, I'm guessing that a large part of it is due to deliberately cutting out this thing that (for better or worse) has really been a huge part of my life. I'd say the stress/anxiety is partly coming from my brains reaction to me saying "ok, no, we can't have that stuff anymore" and my brain is going "woa, wait, what? I WANT it still". So now I'm entering the 'flatline/withdrawl symptom' phase of things.

I do find that I am not having those huge crashes of spirit, self confidence, and all the other garbage that would happen to me the day after PMO. So THATS good. And I find I do have a bit more energy and focus with which to do stuff, which is awesome. And I'm hoping that'll continue to grow, and help boost my self confidence, etc.

I went to the beach today and chilled with some people and played music, so that was cool. And it was a good way to shift my focus onto something more productive.

Things are going ok! I'm bracing myself for the more serious urges that I'm sure will come in the next months, but I'm also really encouraged by the knowledge that recovery IS possible.

All the best fapstronauts!
 

vigilantwarrior

Active Member
PeaceOfMind062012 said:
Hey everybody!

I'm just new to this (like a lot of others), but I'm gonna give it a go. First of all, let me just say how greatful I am to Gabe for making this site, and for all you brave people out there for sharing your stories. Watching one of Gabe's video's was what really inspired me to kick the habit.

Hey hey!! Welcome to the forum! I don't even think people always know how much of an impact they're having with what they're doing - inspiring, encouraging, motivating hundreds/thousands of people to reclaim their lives. It's awesome.

PeaceOfMind062012 said:
I must say that I definitely have problems with commitment to real people, and a strong urge to have many one night stands, or flings. I'd say that was partly shaped by the P in my life.

This is one of the most frustrating things that I deal with. That constant novelty is just not what the human brain I think was meant to be able to experience. It messes up a lot of real possibilities. But it can heal.

PeaceOfMind062012 said:
At this point I'm just focusing on staying away from P, and so far haven't put too much energy into focusing on new things (I guess the brain is a little lazy), but I realize that that is an integral part of it - to fill the void created by P with something new. I also realize that I as a person will pretty much ALWAYS be sensitive and susceptible to falling back into the P trap again. It's such a tricky addiction because it usurps your natural urge to have sex with real people (which is already very strong) and focuses it on P with can always give you more (of the screen), but not what really matters (love and nurturing). So I know that I will always have to be vigilant to my triggers from here on out in my life - hopefully that will get easier with time.

I love how aware you are of all of this stuff. I really respect that since I connect with all of what you said right here.

PeaceOfMind062012 said:
Not sure if anybody is reading this, but i'll post anyway, cuz it's helpful!

Haha we're here! Keep it up Peace

-siphus
 
Hi! I got the information for setting up the tracker here: http://legacy.rebootnation.org/index.php?topic=58.0
you have to scroll down a bit.

As for me, I can say anxiety is a one of the major withdraw symptoms for me. Whenever I relapse, it goes away for a while. I don't know how exactly to deal with it. All I can say is to keep yourself busy and be mindful of yourself, but it sounds like you are already doing just that.

You're on a path that leads to a good place! good luck to you.
 

PeaceOfMind062012

Active Member
Greetings Fapstronauts!

Today I got up at 9:30, which is early for me - I've been usually getting up around 11 or 12. I made coffee and had my breakfast. Then afterwards I went for a walk - about half an hour in one direction and then half an hour back. Where I go isn't important, just the fact that I go for a walk for about an hour.

Anyway, the weather is absolutely beautiful today and the walk was magnificient.

While I was on my walk, I was just really enjoying everything about it, the sunlight, the foliage, and especially the birds singing. I find they are such a great tool for bringing me back to the present moment. Chirp, chirp, tweet tweet, tweeeet, chirp chirp :)

Suddenly I had this thought that I wanted to share with y'all.

I realized that sometimes what is the most difficult thing to do in life (in this plays right into falling back into addiction), is enjoying the simple things - in other words, not doing very much at all, and enjoying it. I find so often that I doggedly run after SOMETHING to do in order just the 'be busy' and 'be doing something' - anything, just to be seen as 'productive' in society. So I find that when there isn't really much of anything happening in my life  - the quiet times -  it is easy to 'start scratching' (mentally), to look for something to do. The stress, anxiety, and tension that comes from that state of being can easily lead to vice (P addiction or other).

Luckily I find that the more I am not exposing myself to P, the EASIER it becomes to enjoy the small, beautiful things in my life, and the less I am looking for 'a big dose' (of whatever it may be). It's like my brain is healing and can now more easily pick up on and enjoy those small, nuanced things. Whereas before, by brain was so flooded with the huge highs and huge lows of P addiction, now it is more relaxed, and more at peace. I know stresses will come again, for sure, there's no doubt about that. But I'm hopeful that I'll be able to use these new tools in my tool box.

Much love brothers!
 

PeaceOfMind062012

Active Member
Many thanks manic_anton and siphus !!

It's great to have some replies to my journal - definitely keeps me motivated and inspired! You're great!

Thanks manic_anton  for the post about the day counter. Would you guys recommend it? I've read about some mixed reviews, as in sometimes it makes you feel worse if you relapse, or it can put pressure on you that might cause stress and lead to a relapse. Any thoughts?

Thanks siphus for commenting on my post - great to have feedback. Yeah, I think we're all pretty much in the same boat, even if we have different personal histories etc. We all have human bodies and brains.

About your comment on the constant novelty, I think you're totally right - our ancestors evolved on the plains of east africa where oppurtunity was truly rare compared to today. The strength of our urges towards sex and other things, like food, prove that they were rare. The brain is saying "GO FOR IT GO FOR IT!". Now the brain is STILL saying that, but we have so much abundance of EVERYTHING (I'm speaking of the countries in the more industrialized part of the world), that now we really have to practice restraint in a BIG way to approach a way of living that our neuro-biological hardware is best designed for. E.g. I'm sure that most of our ancestors' time spent on the plains of east africa were quite tranquil and peaceful in comparison with todays modern world.

I find that dealing with this addiction opens up a bit of a pandora's box in dealing with life in the modern world, because I find that most of mainstream society's messages are very much in line with what P tells us, which reinforce each other. Messages such as - "its fun and exciting to have S with somebody you just met, haven't developed a relationship with and will probably never see again", "It's great to have S with as many people as you can possibly manage" etc. Those messages don't deal with the reality of the downside consequences of that kind of behaviour. It never mentions the merits of going slow, taking your time, and developing something over the long term. I find P tells us this, and also mainstream society tells us this. So even when we make the break from P, we are still in this society which continues to reinforce these same messages.

That doesn't make it impossible, I guess I'm just saying that if we truly want to shift AWAY from P, we are also kind of forced make to make a big change in our entire lives. Possibly a bigger challenge than we bargained for, but also quite likely way more rewarding also ! :)

Also, another question - when I want to post in my journal, do I just keep 'replying' to my thread, or do I do something else?

Peace brothers!
 

vigilantwarrior

Active Member
I'm down with so much that you said there. You make some excellent statements, haha, I'm serious!
PeaceOfMind062012 said:
I guess I'm just saying that if we truly want to shift AWAY from P, we are also kind of forced make to make a big change in our entire lives. Possibly a bigger challenge than we bargained for, but also quite likely way more rewarding also ! :)
I think that can throw people off, and for me I'm still working to actually get it. I need to continue to realize how big of a change I actually need to make to solve this for good. Working on it! Great points  ;D

PeaceOfMind062012 said:
Thanks manic_anton  for the post about the day counter. Would you guys recommend it? I've read about some mixed reviews, as in sometimes it makes you feel worse if you relapse, or it can put pressure on you that might cause stress and lead to a relapse. Any thoughts?

I really like it myself. I'm not afraid of the idea of putting it back to 0 but I do feel a certain sense of self-pride (healthy I think) as it starts to add up. I haven't failed yet with it but if the idea of resetting the counter makes your skin crawl then maybe not. Don't want to discourage you from being here!

PeaceOfMind062012 said:
Also, another question - when I want to post in my journal, do I just keep 'replying' to my thread, or do I do something else?

That's what I do. *shrug*

-siphus
 

PeaceOfMind062012

Active Member
Hey Y'all!

Alright, here I am. Still clean (finger crossed). Feeling pretty good. Just a low level anxiety in my stomach right now, but I think that's just a little part of who I am, and so from here on out I'll have to find healthy ways to deal with my inherited anxiety. Obviously I've still got urges to use P, but with this journal and the forum, it really feels like a strong tool that I've got to help me. Thanks everybody!

So, guess what? Two nights ago I actually hooked up with a woman and had real S! Pretty cool I think. I know that we're supposed to be super careful, when rebooting and some people obstain from O and M, but I'm taking the approach that it just means no artificial stimulation, so if some real S comes along my way, then if I want to have S with that person, I will!

It was basically a one night stand. I had never met this woman before, and it was after being at a club/bar that we hooked up. It was totally unexpected for me (which I find is usually one of the nicer ways for it to happen cuz, if you think it's gonna happen you might have all these expectations and whatnot, which might mess it up, or often if I think is is going to happen, then it just won't , lol. Anyway, we started making out and then it turned into S. I was pretty glad that I could actualy get an E, and have actual intercourse. I have to say though, that I did notice myself not being super interested in it while we were doing it (even though I enjoyed it for sure). I was reminded of what I read about after our brains have become sensitzed to P, ordinary S can seem 'boring'.

Sooo........in my own sexual history, I know that this has been the case for me or many many years (finding myself a little 'bored' with real S when compared to the constant novelty of P). Looking back, I might have had this same feeling ever since the very beginning when I was a teenager (I first had S when I was 14), even though I have had S with real women a fair amount, say about 30 partners in my life. So, anyway, I've had S I'd say a 'healthy' amount of times for a guy my age, whatever way you wanna put it. What I DIDN'T know until visiting YBOP, and watching Gabe's videos, is that my brain was probably ALREADY wired to P before I'd ever had S or been with a real woman! I just always thought that that was the normal amount of arousal that I got from a real woman (I wasn't totally dead inside while doing it, I was just kind like "oh, this is nice, but, P is WAY more exciting). Now, I realize that my brain was wired, and is still wired to be most fully aroused by P. But now I have the knowledge (thanks to Gabe, and YBOP) that my brain can be RE-WIRED! I didn't know that before. So, now even though I wasn't like totally into it the other night when I had S, I'm actually really excited because 1) I had S with a real woman, so that is part of my healing process, and 2) after enough time, my brain WILL re-wire and I WILL be more aroused by real women! This is very exciting.



Thanks Siphus for the responses! Like I said before, and I'll say again, to know that people are reading what I say and can relate to it, gives me SO much support!!

I think I'm gonna stay off the day counter for now, just cuz I know when was my last fap, and I'm kinda weary that it might put too much pressure on me for relapsing, etc.

Stay strong!
 

PeaceOfMind062012

Active Member
Hey Ya'll

Things are good - I'm still clean.

I just want to talk a little bit about how I'm feeling right now, and some of my thoughts.

I find that I'm basically in the flatline now, and I accept that. But I find that it is a bit harder at this stage, to just 'be' in normal life situations. I find that I probably still have a bit of anxiety (probably caused by PMO withdrawls) but now I don't have that to go back to as a crutch (and I'm fine with that), it's just interesting to observe myself dealing with everyday challenges and stresses without the highs and lows of P. Ultimately it's a good thing but I find my mind being a little bit more 'boring' (for lack of a better word) when dealing with the stresses and challenges of real life (dealing with getting a job, and interacting with roomates is what are some of my challenges are right now).

Before I found this site and made my most recent commitment to rebooting (the one I'm on now), I would sometimes stop PMO'ing for about this amount of time, and I would feel pretty much exactly like I do now - mostly enjoying life, but a little bored sometimes with real life. What I now know is that I'm in the flatline period and that it doesn't just effect my libido - it effects my ability to enjoy my entire life. It's like at first I was super excited to make the break from P, and commit to healing (and don't get me wrong, I'm still committed, I just find that I'm great at starting things, but not so great at sticking to them cuz I guess I get a bit bored after the initial novelty is gone), but now that I'm in the desert of flatline, this is when the REAL challenge starts, and I guess I see now that taking up new activities would be super helpful to re-wire my brain, cuz otherwise it's just like a huge desert to cross without any water to drink!

I think it's also important for me to realize that in real life, sometimes you just feel tired/stressed/irratable whatever negative emotion, and that's just the way it is. I just have to find healthy alternative ways to deal with it, and not PMO (basically why I'm writing this right now, lol, it's a good way to process negative emotions - talk about them).

I think it's also important for me to realize that all emotions really do just constantly come and go - 'good' ones and 'bad' ones. And that when I'm in a 'bad' one, it doesn't mean that I have to try and cover it up (with whatever thing I might try to use to cover it up - P, food, smoking pot, alcohol, trying to distract myself). Often times I find those things don't work, but often just make it worse! So I guess that this new improved, 'P free me', just has to accept these more sombre emotions and find healthier ways to try and process them (writing music, or posting on here, or whatever else).

So yeah, that's whats on my mind! lol. Just starting to re-enter the normalcy of life, and finding that my brain is probably a little 'not used' to it quite yet. Sort of picking away at the scab, when I should just let it heal completely. Probably still wanting some sort of 'high'. But I'm still sittin' tight!

All the best fellow fapstronauts!
 
Hey P.,

Just wanted to reply to your post on my 'journal'.

I believe the concept of taking a cold shower originated as a method to dissuade shower-fappers from their ritual. However, in the context of porn addiction, I think the theory behind taking cold showers when urges arise is that it puts the individual into action instead of being idle and allowing the surge of emotions swim through the mind. Stepping into a cold shower requires discipline. Who doesn't associate showers with the comfort of warm water? Essentially, taking a cold shower is one method of shocking our comfort zone and practicing willpower.

Do a quick google search of cold showers if you want an extensive list of how our bodies respond physically. In short, cold showers increase blood circulation and alertness.

When I'm not trying to ease an urge, I like to start with warm and end with a 30-second shock of ice cold. I just love how it forces me to take deep breaths. I usually emerge from the shower feeling invigorated.

Hope this helps. Take care.
 

vigilantwarrior

Active Member
As always, brother, I love reading this.

PeaceOfMind062012 said:
I find that I'm basically in the flatline now, and I accept that. But I find that it is a bit harder at this stage, to just 'be' in normal life situations. I find that I probably still have a bit of anxiety (probably caused by PMO withdrawls) but now I don't have that to go back to as a crutch (and I'm fine with that), it's just interesting to observe myself dealing with everyday challenges and stresses without the highs and lows of P. Ultimately it's a good thing but I find my mind being a little bit more 'boring' (for lack of a better word) when dealing with the stresses and challenges of real life (dealing with getting a job, and interacting with roomates is what are some of my challenges are right now).

Very interesting to hear about this. I experience(d) something similar... for me one of the causes is mood-related. When I was in a bad mood or antisocial, I'd tend to self-destruct myself by medicating to deal with it. But now I have to just face when I'm a little bit "out of it" or not quite as social, and just deal with those parts of life. Everybody goes through that; but I like the thoughts you have approaching it. Real dope.

PeaceOfMind062012 said:
What I now know is that I'm in the flatline period and that it doesn't just effect my libido - it effects my ability to enjoy my entire life. It's like at first I was super excited to make the break from P, and commit to healing (and don't get me wrong, I'm still committed, I just find that I'm great at starting things, but not so great at sticking to them cuz I guess I get a bit bored after the initial novelty is gone), but now that I'm in the desert of flatline, this is when the REAL challenge starts, and I guess I see now that taking up new activities would be super helpful to re-wire my brain, cuz otherwise it's just like a huge desert to cross without any water to drink!

From what I've read, a lot of that slowdown can be neurochemical-related. Personally I take 5-HTP (herbal supplement to boost serotonin) so that might be worth looking into. But no matter what my brain crash usually happens around 2 weeks or so, so mine's coming up. Please stick with this! I want to get through this with you and I appreciate your journal and responses. It's tough man but it'll get easier :)

PeaceOfMind062012 said:
I think it's also important for me to realize that in real life, sometimes you just feel tired/stressed/irratable whatever negative emotion, and that's just the way it is. I just have to find healthy alternative ways to deal with it, and not PMO (basically why I'm writing this right now, lol, it's a good way to process negative emotions - talk about them).

I think it's also important for me to realize that all emotions really do just constantly come and go - 'good' ones and 'bad' ones. And that when I'm in a 'bad' one, it doesn't mean that I have to try and cover it up (with whatever thing I might try to use to cover it up - P, food, smoking pot, alcohol, trying to distract myself). Often times I find those things don't work, but often just make it worse! So I guess that this new improved, 'P free me', just has to accept these more sombre emotions and find healthier ways to try and process them (writing music, or posting on here, or whatever else).

Hey, I'm the exact same way. I'd love to discover a new hobby, but I'm not putting the work towards it that I'd need to, gah :-\ I forget if you said if you exercise. That almost consistently makes me feel better, even when I don't think it will. But even still, our moods are volatile. Sometimes you just need to get some sleep, and you'll wake up differently, ya know? Don't worry, the rough patches pass. Sounds like you're making good sense of it by what you're working through.

So great. Wish you the best til we speak again!

-siphus
 

PeaceOfMind062012

Active Member
Hey guys!

I hope these long posts don't turn you guys off, its just once I get started, it can really start pouring out, and I realize that I've got a lot to share about this stuff. Thanks for reading, and thanks so much for commenting on my posts. It really makes this whole thing feel more 'real'. Just the fact that others are reading it.

Hey planet_earth_is_blue, that's good stuff about the cold showers, I think (If I can work up the courage) I'll try one soon. I seem to remember reading something somewhere that said it helps heal and create new neural pathways in our brains - I'll have to research that more.

Siphus, thanks for the specific responses to things I've said. I'm not too good at answering them directly, but some day I will. Sometimes I just getting started on a writing flow, and then I can't stop! lol. And also thanks for the support and encouragement. I'm beginning to realize in my life that I have a feeling of 'unworthiness' or 'not good enough' so sometimes its hard for me to accept that people genuinely care. It's like part of me doesn't trust, and is in disbelief. So thank you very much, even though part of me is like "these guys don't really mean it" lol. Where does that distrustful thinking come from? Actually I think it is largely due to the conditioning I received to "not show my emotions" and "always be a tough guy". So if ever another man extends their hand in some sort of emotional care, it's like I've got one foot out the door ready to run the other way at the slightest sign that they're gonna make fun of me or beat the shit out of me, or kick me out of the group (that's probably the fear that started when I was like 6,7,8,9,10 years old and has continued until today). I just hold myself up and hold myself in, so that I don't get hurt, but that means I hold all my pain in too :( All part of the healing journey, this "self RE-discovery"

I only fully committed to quitting recently and started posting a few weeks ago, but let me tell you man, this thing has been like a 'monkey on my back' for, well pretty much since I started PMO'ing to my dad's magazines when I was 8! (isn't that crazy - 8 years old? but from what I've read, that is actually more of the average age guys start). It's funny, I can remember when I was 10 years old, promising myself that because it was my 10th birthday I would stop sneaking and looking at my dad's playboys (10 must've felt like an important/special transitional age for me back then). I sensed even then that there was something destructive about this habit. Less than a week later, I was back at it. Long story short, I've felt for a long time that it hasn't been a good thing in my life, so when I watched Gabe's video's about a month ago, it actually re-inspired me to quit, and ACTUALLY quit this time - truly stay off it. The fact that he and many others have gone through rebooting and healed, has given me hope and excitement about the journey.

Anyway, hope you're doing well with staying away from it. I just basically went cold turkey, and mostly through my sheer will power and being finally fed up with only being "a shadow version of who I was meant to be" am I staying away from it. It's funny though because there is a large part of my brain that is basically still there that totally wants to watch it, and just like a "Dr. Jekyll - Mr. Hyde" situation, once that switch is flicked, it's very hard to stop it. So, hopefully through my sheer will power and taking up new activities (admittedly gradually) I will strengthen the frontal lobes (which is my ability to recognize the harmful consequences of these actions, and my "NO" response).

It's just such a 'devilish habit' in that all you have to do is THINK about it, and boom, you're back there with a craving - and as humans we're thinking ALL THE TIME! Luckily with practice, when we notice that it has crossed our minds, we can just acknowledge it and gently shift our thinking into some other direction. I find I'm getting a few more 'flashback's' lately. It's like my brain is getting a bit of withdrawl and is probably a little sad to be losing this thing that gave it such a huge hit of (short lived) pleasure, so it's trying to make me go back there again. But no sir.

-Peace
 

PeaceOfMind062012

Active Member
Hey Fellow Fapstronauts,

So for today?s post I'm gonna talk about rejection -  specifically me being rejected, lol. It doesn't feel good :( I'm kind of in a fog right now, but I guess that's what happens! I feel that when I get rejected now, at this time in my life, it basically re-ignites all those memories of other times in my past when I've been rejected, so it kind of makes it into more of something than it actually is. Like maybe if I could just keep it to this isolated incident, it wouldn't hurt so bad, but it kind of taps into accumulated memories of being rejected. These are only my own postulations, just thoughts of mine about the subject.

So, long story short, I met someone a couple of days ago, and we got along pretty well, and I think/thought there was some nice chemistry there. So when I ran into her again, we chatted again and had a nice conversation, and then I kinda asked her on a date, and she kinda said 'no', lol. And then I kinda felt all awkward and weird inside and realized that I probably shouldn't have said that, it was probably too soon, but now I've said it, and I can't take it back it's totally likely that I've ruined whatever little spark we might've had :(

So...........that's part of life. Sometimes we put the question out there, and sometimes the answer is 'no'. Fair enough. But what do we do after that? How do we deal with rejection? The funny thing is, is that up until that point, I'd been having a really good day, and then after that I was promptly deflated. Boom, just like that!

So here's the crunch of it; one of the reasons why I (and I believe we) turn to P, is that P doesn't EVER, ever, ever, reject us! Oh my god, crazy right? We NEVER have to stick our necks out to be rejected with P, never! That's why it can be SO, so so so tempting to turn to P, especially after a real life rejection (like I had today). But if we never stick our necks out we 1) will never know if she likes us, maybe she WILL say yes, and 2) we end up living almost a substitute of life. It's sort of a more dull, more colorless version when all we're doing is using P for our girlfriend. But we can't seem to get out of it cuz the memory of being ACTUALLY rejected by an ACTUAL person is just too painful.

Sooooo.........where does this leave me? I do not plan on PMO'ing, but I know that in the past, being rejected in real life has definitely been one of my major triggers. I know that in the past when I've 'put it out there' and been rejected by a real person, I've often turned in P to numb the pain. But this time, I'm just gonna sit with the uncomfortable emotions and not try to cover it up with P. What else can you do?

I messaged her with an apology about making it awkward, so hopefully she'll message me back. I really don't know!

Hmmm, real life disappointments and challenges :)

-Peace
 

vigilantwarrior

Active Member
PeaceOfMind062012 said:
So thank you very much, even though part of me is like "these guys don't really mean it" lol. Where does that distrustful thinking come from? Actually I think it is largely due to the conditioning I received to "not show my emotions" and "always be a tough guy". So if ever another man extends their hand in some sort of emotional care, it's like I've got one foot out the door ready to run the other way at the slightest sign that they're gonna make fun of me or beat the shit out of me, or kick me out of the group (that's probably the fear that started when I was like 6,7,8,9,10 years old and has continued until today). I just hold myself up and hold myself in, so that I don't get hurt, but that means I hold all my pain in too :( All part of the healing journey, this "self RE-discovery"

Get it. 100%. I think I ended up being drawn more to having female friends because I never trusted guys who were douchebags and if you ever expressed something kinda real you never know what kind of response you get. I assure you we're authentic. This is a different group, we're more about facing this crap and getting real.

PeaceOfMind062012 said:
It's funny though because there is a large part of my brain that is basically still there that totally wants to watch it, and just like a "Dr. Jekyll - Mr. Hyde" situation, once that switch is flicked, it's very hard to stop it. So, hopefully through my sheer will power and taking up new activities (admittedly gradually) I will strengthen the frontal lobes (which is my ability to recognize the harmful consequences of these actions, and my "NO" response).

100 perceennnnnt understand!!

PeaceOfMind062012 said:
So here's the crunch of it; one of the reasons why I (and I believe we) turn to P, is that P doesn't EVER, ever, ever, reject us! Oh my god, crazy right? We NEVER have to stick our necks out to be rejected with P, never! That's why it can be SO, so so so tempting to turn to P, especially after a real life rejection (like I had today). But if we never stick our necks out we 1) will never know if she likes us, maybe she WILL say yes, and 2) we end up living almost a substitute of life. It's sort of a more dull, more colorless version when all we're doing is using P for our girlfriend. But we can't seem to get out of it cuz the memory of being ACTUALLY rejected by an ACTUAL person is just too painful.

Sooooo.........where does this leave me? I do not plan on PMO'ing, but I know that in the past, being rejected in real life has definitely been one of my major triggers. I know that in the past when I've 'put it out there' and been rejected by a real person, I've often turned in P to numb the pain. But this time, I'm just gonna sit with the uncomfortable emotions and not try to cover it up with P. What else can you do?

I messaged her with an apology about making it awkward, so hopefully she'll message me back. I really don't know!

Hmmm, real life disappointments and challenges :)

-Peace

Again... I literally 100% get this. I'm terrible with rejection. P is basically the opposite of rejection....until the after-effects and your real self kick in and you know it's all a lie and you've been deceived again.

I'm so glad you posted about this man. I used to just sit on rejection and have it build internally. No bueno. We get to share some of these feelings with you and I hope it helps. The boss game you had to kindly ask her out is man-skills right there. Like I was saying to LeirtheFox, that's No-PMO swag. Don't worry about how she feels or if she responds. Do you. Keep it uppp!

-siphus
 

PeaceOfMind062012

Active Member
"Again... I literally 100% get this. I'm terrible with rejection. P is basically the opposite of rejection....until the after-effects and your real self kick in and you know it's all a lie and you've been deceived again.

I'm so glad you posted about this man. I used to just sit on rejection and have it build internally. No bueno. We get to share some of these feelings with you and I hope it helps. The boss game you had to kindly ask her out is man-skills right there. Like I was saying to LeirtheFox, that's No-PMO swag. Don't worry about how she feels or if she responds. Do you. Keep it uppp!"



That's sick you said that man, it's good to feel support even if she did reject me (which she did, lol). Normally I just feel like a failure and a loser, so yeah, it's good to hear support about just the fact that I asked. Like I said though, I kind of feel like a loser, cuz I effectively shut down what little spark was there, and I kinda feel like maybe I was a little too presumptious you know? Like thinking that she would say yes is a little bit arrogant. Anyway, whatever. PS, she hasn't messaged me back yet :(

If you never ask, you'll never know right?

*Fingers crossed* that maybe she'll still want to be friends.



Well, tonight I'm in that danger zone of being a little bored and tired, and haven't looked at P or PMO'ed in about a month (which I'm actually really proud of), so it's like I forget how bad the 'low' feels after PMO'ing. And what my mind does in that zone is start to wander....and we know what that means. I just have to observe it though, almost as if I was looking after a child.

So as an antidote, I open up this forum and did some reading and posting! Yay! Doing ok, despite being a bit tired and feeling like it isn't a victory, when it ACTUALLY IS!

I've noticed that I'm still able to get morning wood, and still get erections so that's pretty awesome, although I know I must still have some form of PIED cuz I don't really get them spontaneously, and most likely wouldn't get one just from light touch, and without fantasizing in my mind to help turn me on.

Check out this cool video about the science of morning wood

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1et5NgT6bQ

And this one explaining P addiction

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ya67aLaaCc&nohtml5=False

There's no triggers in either, they're just stop motion animation :)


Thanks for reading!

-Peace
 
So, long story short, I met someone a couple of days ago, and we got along pretty well, and I think/thought there was some nice chemistry there. So when I ran into her again, we chatted again and had a nice conversation, and then I kinda asked her on a date, and she kinda said 'no', lol. And then I kinda felt all awkward and weird inside and realized that I probably shouldn't have said that, it was probably too soon, but now I've said it, and I can't take it back it's totally likely that I've ruined whatever little spark we might've had :(

Maybe she wasn't interested, or had another guy lined up. It has nothing to do with being forward about your intentions. Some folks don't get that declaring your intentions early on is a good thing. I was always the type of guy who very early on said things like, "hey, I like you. Would you like to go on a date?"

Some women dug that, others were put off. I hated mind games and all that fertility dance crap and preferred an honest approach. When I met my wife in my early 20's, she really responded to my approach. So far so good!

The guys I know who are always going out with different ladies aren't any more suave than the rest of us; maybe more practiced. They just employ the salesman technique: out of every potential sale only 10% will actually bite; it's all about getting through to that ten percent. What this translates into for those guys and dating is that most of the time unless you're fricken george clooney you need to get that volume in so that you can get through to the ones who are actually interested. You don't have to ask every person out that you meet, but you do have to meet people.

So as an antidote, I open up this forum and did some reading and posting! Yay! Doing ok, despite being a bit tired and feeling like it isn't a victory, when it ACTUALLY IS!

I've been doing this as well. It seems to help when you look at the problem head on. See, we really WANT to PMO inside of our heads due to that neural pathways that we've created/were already there. Now we're telling ourselves that we won't, and that's a really hard thing to do.

Hang in there buddy.

-The Faptain
 

PeaceOfMind062012

Active Member
Ok, so last night I had a relapse. Yep, it happened. I fell into using P and P Subs for about 2 hours, and I feel kinda shitty, but luckily I don't feel as absolutely horrible as I used to when I would relapse, back before I started my reboot. My body feels kinda crap, I have a cramp in my neck from being in that position for two hours last night, but my soul, my spirit doesn't feel as absolutely horrible as it has in the past after PMO'ing

I'm actually really glad I don't feel QUITE as bad, and here are two reasons why I think that might be:

1) It's been about a month since I PMO'ed, so maybe my levels of dopamine/serotonin etc. were not depleted as much as they used to be cuz they've had a month to heal now without P. So perhaps they were depleted last night, but not to rock bottom. In any case I feel a little bit sleep deprived, but not totally morally deprived.

2) As soon as I was finished last night, I sat there and realized what had happened. It started to sink in, into that deeper feeling of "I'm a horrible person, and I feel like absolute garbage". But then I noticed a compassionate side of my mind come in, and I just started to forgive myself, like almost immediately. That was a funny thing. I think the forgiveness was made easier by the fact that I'm on this site and I'm really trying to reboot. That gives me a net to fall back on, and it helps strengthen me - not feeling completely alone in this anymore. I know that I relapsed, that?s clear. But if I continue on my reboot, then I hope it won't revert me right back to zero (although it definitely does in the day counter). It's like climbing a mountain, and I just fell down about ten feet, but I had my safety ropes to catch me, so I can keep on climbing.

I feel that the rejection I experienced a few days ago (see above), combined with some financial stresses I've been going through lately (I'm low on money, and don't have a job yet :/ but I'm still staying afloat, the bank account is just low) helped contribute to this relapse. And it wasn't even a huge rejection from that lady, I just asked a her on a date, and she said no. But I feel that it triggered past pain from all my past rejections. So yeah - stability of the mind is a fragile thing FOR SURE.

I'm actually really proud of myself for the way I'm handling this relapse so far. Like I said, as soon as I was finished last night I just brought in thoughts of self forgiveness right away. Now, I am definitely no neuroscientist, but I have a thought about that. You know how they talk about strengthening (or weakening) neural pathways in our brains and how that basically define how we experience our lives? (The way our brains are a "use it or lose it" system). Well, I strongly feel that that is also the case, not just in the physical side of things (like using P, or reinforcing new pathways like working out), but also in our thoughts. So what I'm saying is that by forgiving myself RIGHT AWAY, I'm slowly but surely reinforcing those pathways in my brain, instead of the ones that say "you're a total failure, look, you relapsed again, you're garbage, etc", which I find keep you in that darker place of self hate and shame, which are then in turn more likely to lead you into relapse again.

So I feel that self-forgiveness and a sense of humour about having a relapse is crucial to the healing process, because those thoughts are carried along neuro-pathways, just like everything else in our brains, and they can also be strengthened!!

Then this morning I did my little exercise routine (some pushups, core exercise and stretches). Even though I was feeling kinda shitty, I did it anyway. Same thing - I feel that it's about brain chemistry - the more you use it, the stronger those pathways get. So even though I'm kind of in the shit storm that is the day after using P and I have a perfectly good reason to feel crappy and not do my exercises, if I just push through and do my exercises anyway, it helps strengthen those pathways as well as (hopefully) weakening the P pathways.

Well, here I am - gonna keep on truckin'! What else can you do?

I hope everyone is doing well with their recovery! It's a marathon, not a sprint :)

All the best

-Peace
 
Hey again, just saw your new post and wanted to reflect on it before getting to mine.

I'm actually really glad I don't feel QUITE as bad

Your choice of forgiveness is EPIC. Congrats! Like you said, it's a marathon. We often think about big things we want to change in the short-term.

"I want to get fit NOW"
"I want to change my diet NOW"
"I want to stop PMO NOW"

None of these things change overnight. It takes days, weeks, months of work to change this stuff and in the grand scheme of things, when you've been PMO'ing for the last 15 years, your relatively short struggle seems insignificant. You are aren't dying. There's no deadline. When you're ready to make that final push, you'll know it. Until then, enjoy the ride and keep moving forward.

Cheers!

-The Faptain
 

vigilantwarrior

Active Member
PeaceOfMind062012 said:
Well, here I am - gonna keep on truckin'! What else can you do?

I hope everyone is doing well with their recovery! It's a marathon, not a sprint :)

All the best

Hey, man, I'm sorry to hear about a relapse since no matter what it's tough to go through. But I love your attitude and that you allowed that compassion in, the same thing you'd do for another person. You absolutely don't lose the progress you've made, especially with gradually rewiring parts of your brain circuitry. I'm glad that you feel so connected to your progress, and let's get back up and keep on going!

Your thoughts reminded me of a section of The Willpower Instinct that I wanted to share, relating to how self-forgiveness does wonders for us vs. guilt. This is just a tiny section but still contains some good points.

Two psychologists invited weight-watching women into the laboratory, then encouraged them to eat doughnuts and candy in the name of science. These researchers had an intriguing hypothesis. If guilt sabotages self-control, they thought, then maybe the opposite of guilt would support self-control.

The women were told that they would be participating in two separate studies: one on the effect of food on mood, and a taste test of several different candies. In the first study, all of the women were asked to choose either a glazed or chocolate doughnut and finish the whole thing within 4 minutes. They were also asked to drink a glass of water?the researchers' trick to make sure they felt uncomfortably full. Then the women filled out surveys about how they felt.

Before the candy taste test, half of the women received a special message designed to relieve their guilt. The experimenter mentioned that participants sometimes felt guilty about eating a whole doughnut. The experimenter then encouraged each participant not to be too hard on herself, and to remember that everyone indulges sometimes. The other women got no such message. Then came the test of self-forgiveness. The experimenter served each dieter 3 large bowls of candy chosen to appeal to any sweet tooth. The women were asked to sample each candy to rate it, and to eat as much or as little as they liked. If the women still felt guilty about eating the doughnut, they should say to themselves, "I already broke the diet, so what does it matter if I inhale these Skittles?" After the taste test, the experimenter weighed the candy bowls.

The self-forgiveness intervention was a clear success: The women who received the special message ate only 28 grams of candy, compared with almost 70 grams by women who were not encouraged to forgive themselves. (For reference, a Hershey's Kiss is 4.5 grams.) Most people are surprised by this finding. Getting rid of guilt kept the women from overindulging in the taste test.

Most of us first learned to control ourselves as children through parental commands and punishment. This approach is necessary during childhood because, let's face it, children are wild animals. The brain's self-control system does not fully develop until young adulthood. However, many people treat themselves like they are still children?and frankly, they act more like abusive parents than supportive caregivers. They criticize themselves whenever they give in to temptation or fail in their own eyes: "You?re so lazy! What?s the matter with you?" Each failure is used as evidence that they need to be even stricter with themselves. If you think that the key to greater willpower is being harder on yourself, you are not alone. But you are wrong. Study after study shows that self-criticism is consistently associated with less motivation and worse self-control. In contrast, self-compassion?being supportive and kind to yourself, especially in the face of stress and failure?is associated with more motivation and better self-control.

-siphus
 
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