interpersonal differences

Hello everyone, 31 year old who is on day 14 of 180 of noPMO.

I have a question. Of all the guys who watch porn, how many accuire porn-related problems? Of couse there are allot of factors like frequency, start-time, level of intensity etc. I gues what i am asking about is, is it possible for some to watch porn and not get problems? Are some more prone to develop this things?

I think back 10 years ago, one example was at a party. I was SO anxious if was unbelievable. I tend to think i didn't watch more P than the average guy (i might be wrong..)

Today i am less anxious, but still feel it when im with other people, especially strangers. I have major brainfog, which gets in my way of connecting with others...My mind just feels blank all the time and i think...no, i know that that was one contributing factor to my last breakup. I just identified one of my bad behaviors; I remember one of my early GF's, i had a problem that I wanted to talk to her about. So i did, and she said she did not agree and told me to explain why i was thinking this way. Then it happened, my mind whent blank! Nothing! And after that incidence I have tried to not get into a discussion because i know my mind is not good at that stuff. Hopefully after my reboot it will improove.

Other things that contributed to my recent breakup was that i got irritated about small things that she did, i have not reacted in that way with other GF's. She was very stuborn, and she thought she knew alot when in fact she didnt. She could not compromise when we had a disagreement. I dont know, feels like... i dont know. Perhaps I might have overreacted..

Also I am not as social as i want to be. On a 1-10 scale im on 2 at the moment. Hopefully it will improove.

166 days left, lets see what it does to my life.

I guess it depends on what you consider to be porn related problems. Some guys can't get hard anymore watching porn every day, other guys have no issues. Some guys find their porn habits effect their emotional wellbeing and/or mental acuity, other guys don't see a problem. Some guys are morally repulsed at the content they escalate to, others just don't care.
~95% of guys probably watch porn at least once a week, if they all felt it was a problem, this site wouldn't be able to handle the traffic.
We are a minority, and there is no point in judging others for their choice to continue watching porn. It's better to focus on what you believe is a problem in your life, ideals of self improvement are different for everyone.

Mailo567 said:

is it possible for some to watch porn and not get problems?

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To answer this, and any similar questions, just substitute 'use heroin' for 'watch porn' and you'll have your answer 

sender said:

Mailo567 said:

what i am asking about is, is it possible for some to watch porn and not get problems?

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To answer this, and any similar questions, just substitute 'use heroin' for 'watch porn' and you'll have your answer 

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Lol, I guess you could, if you wanted to avoid any sort of rational thinking and make an extreme and invalid comparison ;D
Porn is better compared to any other behavioral addiction, food, internet, videogames, etc. All of them are detrimental when excessively indulging in them.
What constitutes excessive indulgence is up to the individual to decide.

We are here because porn has a negative impact on our lives and we want to avoid it. It is counter productive to try and convince ourselves that no one is capable of using porn responsibly with minimal/no negative effects. Rational thinking makes the difference between a cult and a recovery group, which one do you think is more inviting for people in need of help/recovery and which would you rather be a part of? Just because I don't want to watch porn and I view the majority of the porn industry as unethical, doesn't mean there aren't valid arguments on the other side of the discussion.

"doesn't mean there aren't valid arguments on the other side of the discussion"
No there isn't. It's just excuses.

Big H said:

"doesn't mean there aren't valid arguments on the other side of the discussion"
No there isn't. It's just excuses.

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Of course Brother H, shall we begin the ceremonial burning of the playboy magazines ;D

In all seriousness though I understand your thought process. It is easier to not feel resentment for those who don't struggle with addiction, when we convince ourselves that they can't possibly be truly happy with porn in their lives. I understand how you feel, but it isn't really rational. We need to realize that just because others might be living fulfilling lives while occasionally watching porn, doesn't mean our lives are any less fulfilling without it. Just let it go, no need to live in denial, they might be happy with porn or they might be miserable, who knows? who cares?

This is a tough one because it can turn into a chicken or egg situation. Obviously things like PIED and the like are porn related problems, but the emotional, social, and other psychological problems can often be rooted elsewhere. The thing is, porn is used to cover these root issues and numb us to our bigger problems. So quitting PMO is often only the first step of recovery. Next you have to face these other issues head-on, without falling back on PMO or some other bad habit to take comfort in. For me, social anxiety is a big one and I know after I stop PMO for some time I become way more outgoing and feel less worry about being judged by others. But I think initially this fear came sometime while I was in middle-school before I started using porn and I began using porn to numb this anxiety. There are certainly other emotions that I am still working through, but they are impossible to work on while persistently draining my energy with porn use. Also, keep in mind that recovery is not linear, it is a roller-coaster ride. You will feel like the king of the universe one day, and like a worthless dredge the next. In the long term you will finally find your balance, but until then: stay strong and carry on

Robert1 said:

It is counter productive to try and convince ourselves that no one is capable of using porn responsibly with minimal/no negative effects.

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That's a good point.  But I wasn't really referring to "other people", rather to recovering porn addicts.  Perhaps my heroin statement wasn't explained enough to be meaningful.  My point is, recovering porn addicts shouldn't be thinking about people who can use porn without effects because they themselves can't.  He was really looking for a rationalization for some amount of porn use which, in his case, will always be counterproductive / lead to a relapse.  Of course, I'm generalizing, but I think for the vast majority of people who have used porn to the point of PIED, there is no responsible level of porn use, and it doesn't matter if other people can do that or not - that person can't.


The other thing that I think isn't really public knowledge, but should be: porn addiction doesn't require any antecedent (like emotional problems, etc).  Like heroin or other drugs, exposure to porn (and fascination with it) can lead to addiction all on its own because (unlike video games) it's a super-normal stimulus.  It's a question of escalating use.  Today's high-speed internet porn isn't the same thing as old-school playboy magazines, etc.  It's so available, instantaneous, infinite in variety, high-intensity, free, etc. that it's a ready-made trap that's hard not to fall into, especially when our culture has moved towards normalizing porn rather than exposing it as the hazard it truly is.  I suspect addiction to porn is more prevalent than we really know at this point.


Cult points taken.  However, there is a public health issue here which is not being dealt with by our government...

sender said:

there is a public health issue here which is not being dealt with by our government...

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And by this I don't mean that porn should be banned, but online access to it should be restricted to at least the same degree as it is in physical form.  In other words, if a minor can't see it and buy it by walking into a bricks-and-mortar store, then he DEFINITELY shouldn't be able to consume it online for free.

"We need to realize that just because others might be living fulfilling lives while occasionally watching porn, doesn't mean our lives are any less fulfilling without it"

People do cocaine and "fulfil their lives". Doesn't mean anything. Porn has an effect on the brain whether you're addicted or not. Everyone would benefit without it.

Big H said:

Porn has an effect on the brain whether you're addicted or not. Everyone would benefit without it.

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Everything has an effect on the brain.  That's a slippery slope.  Porn is a pretty broad category; it isn't just one thing, so it's hard to say.  In fact, there are a variety of new technologies evolving that could offer some people alternative methods of connecting sexually (i.e. tele-dildonics, etc).  These "new options" might even liberate some people who (for whatever reason) are unable to have sex.  We have integrated technology into many other areas of our lives, so it's sort of inevitable that it would find its way into our sex lives in some form or other.  My personal preference is to "do what comes naturally".  But that doesn't mean other's preferences are any less valid. 

My point is that it's not really porn as such, but the increase in intensity of the porn images, their limitless variety, free instantaneous availability and delivery over high-speed networks that, in combination, offer a never-before-seen temptation to overconsume thus overloading the brain's dopamine-based reward circuitry.  The main producers of porn know all of this, and they are intentionally designing, lighting, shooting, producing, marketing and distributing their product in specific ways to maximize its "addictiveness".  What's worse, our internet (which is a public resource, like roads) is being used as the delivery mechanism.  It's piped into all of our homes, and even into our pockets, but we aren't given any option to turn it off.  Think about that - these guys have an amazing distribution network, and they are able to push their products right into your pocket and you can't even ask for them turn it off.  Wtf??  That's what's causing the biggest problems, and politically, that's where our effort should be focused.  Of course, nothing will happen politically until enough research is done to prove that overconsumption of porn is actually harmful.  Even then, it will take pressure and time to effect real change.  If the cigarette industry offers us any lessons here, it's that even when science has shown clearly that something is harmful, that industry's lobby will still fight tooth and nail to slow policy change to its absolute minimum speed.  But even then, change will take place...eventually.

Generalizing is difficult, but I'm comfortable generalizing that high-speed internet porn is bad in that (for reasons already stated) it encourages overconsumption of sexual super-stimuli which we know (anecdotally) to cause serious problems which can be very difficult to overcome.  So we should focus on that, and helping individuals with their struggles in overcoming it.

but what physical differences do the uneffected ones have that we lack? higher testosterone levels? lower intelligence?

"but what physical differences do the uneffected ones have that we lack? higher testosterone levels? lower intelligence?"
Maybe they're genetically superior?

"but what physical differences do the uneffected ones have that we lack? higher testosterone levels? lower intelligence?"
Maybe they're genetically superior?"

If some are genetically predisposed to deal better with porn than others, what are the mechanism behind this recilience? I bet there is not much research on this, but could a person with biologically higher levels of glutamate deal with porn better? what about serotonin? acetylcholine?

Robert1 said:

~95% of guys probably watch porn at least once a week, if they all felt it was a problem, this site wouldn't be able to handle the traffic.

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The research I read said that ~80% of young guys (20's) watch porn, less than 25% of guys 40 and older do. Among the young guys, 40+% have mild to severe ED. Also, all the research clearly shows that porn is dramatically affecting the sexual behavior/tastes of both men and women. The reason this site isn't flooded is because the guys don't know about it or don't know about the effects of porn. (However YBOP IS flooded.)

think of the longest u went without porn and try to remember how you felt , like what was ur general attitude towards relationships(intimate or otherwise) ?

Hanai said:

Robert1 said:

~95% of guys probably watch porn at least once a week, if they all felt it was a problem, this site wouldn't be able to handle the traffic.

Click to expand...

The research I read said that ~80% of young guys (20's) watch porn, less than 25% of guys 40 and older do. Among the young guys, 40+% have mild to severe ED. Also, all the research clearly shows that porn is dramatically affecting the sexual behavior/tastes of both men and women. The reason this site isn't flooded is because the guys don't know about it or don't know about the effects of porn. (However YBOP IS flooded.)

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Alright, so it's even less of a problem than I thought based on percentage of guys watching porn. Where are you getting the ed numbers from and how do you know it is attributable to use of porn? Seriously, give me one source other than ybop, because I've been through that site top to bottom and I often have trouble finding alternative sources for any of the information.

Robert1 said:

Alright, so it's even less of a problem than I thought based on percentage of guys watching porn. Where are you getting the ed numbers from and how do you know it is attributable to use of porn? Seriously, give me one source other than ybop, because I've been through that site top to bottom and I often have trouble finding alternative sources for any of the information.

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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22727073
"In Switzerland, one-third of young men suffer from at least one sexual dysfunction." (2012)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23651423
"This exploratory analysis showed that one in four patients seeking first medical help for new onset ED was younger than 40 years. Almost half of the young men suffered from severe ED, with comparable rates in older patients. Overall, younger men differed from older individuals in terms of both clinical and sociodemographic parameters." (2013)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27320034
"We completed a comprehensive assessment of problems in sexual functioning and related distress over a 2-year period among adolescents (16-21 years)...Common problems for males were low sexual satisfaction (47.9%), low desire (46.2%), and problems in erectile function (45.3%)." (2016)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25042933
"The rates of ED were 33.24% for male military personnel aged 21-40" (2014)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24418498
"This study aims to assess the prevalence, range, and correlates of sexual problems and distress among a sample of adolescents (16-21 years)...Half of the sample (51.1%) reported a sexual problem;" (2014)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19889149
"Prevalence of ED in 1,947 men was 35.0%" (2010)

For some reason, this site (unlike other nofap sites) attracts a lot of middle-aged/older men and their wives, but let's not lose sight of the fact that PIED is a young man's problem the vast majority of the time.

Hanai said:

Robert1 said:

Alright, so it's even less of a problem than I thought based on percentage of guys watching porn. Where are you getting the ed numbers from and how do you know it is attributable to use of porn? Seriously, give me one source other than ybop, because I've been through that site top to bottom and I often have trouble finding alternative sources for any of the information.

Click to expand...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22727073
"In Switzerland, one-third of young men suffer from at least one sexual dysfunction." (2012)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23651423
"This exploratory analysis showed that one in four patients seeking first medical help for new onset ED was younger than 40 years. Almost half of the young men suffered from severe ED, with comparable rates in older patients. Overall, younger men differed from older individuals in terms of both clinical and sociodemographic parameters." (2013)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27320034
"We completed a comprehensive assessment of problems in sexual functioning and related distress over a 2-year period among adolescents (16-21 years)...Common problems for males were low sexual satisfaction (47.9%), low desire (46.2%), and problems in erectile function (45.3%)." (2016)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25042933
"The rates of ED were 33.24% for male military personnel aged 21-40" (2014)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24418498
"This study aims to assess the prevalence, range, and correlates of sexual problems and distress among a sample of adolescents (16-21 years)...Half of the sample (51.1%) reported a sexual problem;" (2014)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19889149
"Prevalence of ED in 1,947 men was 35.0%" (2010)

For some reason, this site (unlike other nofap sites) attracts a lot of middle-aged/older men and their wives, but let's not lose sight of the fact that PIED is a young man's problem the vast majority of the time.

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Cool, so we are starting to shine a light on the fact that not all men should be expected to be rock hard at the drop of a hat, good stuff
One could also incorrectly state that ed is more prevalent among young men these days than it has been in the past, but one would have to ignore the fact that we haven't actually gathered any data in the past regarding young men with ed.
Again you are drawing conclusions that it is pied rather than ed with little evidence. Perhaps we should be less concerned with defining our manhood by the strength of our erections anyways.

Cool, so we are starting to shine a light on the fact that not all men should be expected to be rock hard at the drop of a hat, good stuff
One could also incorrectly state that ed is more prevalent among young men these days than it has been in the past, but one would have to ignore the fact that we haven't actually gathered any data in the past regarding young men with ed.
Again you are drawing conclusions that it is pied rather than ed with little evidence. Perhaps we should be less concerned with defining our manhood by the strength of our erections anyways.

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This is just denialism. Many of the young men had severe ED.

I know it's a problem because I'm 21, and by the time I was 18 I had absolute, total ED and no real sex drive whatsoever. I did not have a real-life erection for 3 years (I quit porn a few months ago). I also know that porn effects sexual behavior, because I lost my virginity at 14 and I know I wouldn't have if it weren't for the influence of porn. These things are not just my own experience but I've personally seen the same thing happen over and over in other guys my age. I also know that porn effects sexual tastes because in high school you could tell which guys watched porn because they were trying to get their girlfriends to have anal sex while the guys who didn't watch porn would grimace at the mention of it. Keep in mind that waves of doctors and sex therapists are accepting and treating porn addiction and PIED.

Before the advent of internet porn erectile dysfunction rates among young men were consistently below 5%:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1476027/
"The first extensive epidemiologic study of male sexual behavior in the United States was reported in 1948 by Kinsey and colleagues.3 They concluded that the prevalence of ED was less than 1% in men younger than 30 years"

http://www.nature.com/ijir/journal/v14/n6/full/3900905a.html
"A systematic review was conducted on the prevalence of erectile dysfunction (ED) in the general population. The prevalence of ED [was] 2% in men younger than 40" (2002)

In any case, if the fact that half of young men age 16-21 have low sex drive and can't get it up at a time where they're supposed to be at their most sexual doesn't bother you, then I'm sure no argument I can make will get through. This site's depressing me, so I think I'm going to take a break from it until I'm ready to write my success story.