Author Topic: NoFap Consciousness  (Read 52183 times)

Pete McVries

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #475 on: March 16, 2019, 08:09:20 PM »
You are providing us with interesting information. I think, I'll dispose of my kindle and start reading real books again. I always suspected, there was a difference. When I look back, I can remember that things I read in a real book stayed with me a lot more detailed than books that I've read on my kindle. Thanks for sharing!
nine months clean and counting...

Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #476 on: March 17, 2019, 07:00:42 AM »
Thanks Pete, yes the research seems to suggest that deep reading, i.e. reading books, makes information easier to recall, I'm still not sure whether that is better or worse, the non-linear reading of the internet means that one can maybe make new connections between information easier, of course those connections might not be useful or lead you anywhere good, and it probably makes life more difficult to rise out of the mass of chaos, too many directions is not conducive to making progress.

I managed seven days before of reading my book on clinical evidence mad easy, reading the first seven chapters. I will probably have to read these seven chapters again to really study them. I wanted to read the book to prepare myself for any future opportunities I might have in the realm of health economics, having done a bit of casual work as a research assistant in that field recently and also a couple of years ago with the same boss. I really do hope I'll get another chance in that area, although it doesn't look likely at the moment, we'll see.

I'm now reading a book on the Yoga of desires, which is supposed to teach how to master the desires in your life to achieve excellence, if that is the right word. I managed to read two chapters yesterday, spending slightly less time engaging with the internet, which is good. So today is day three of my reading challenge.

I have a bad habit of starting books, reading half of them, and never finishing them, this is something I want to change. In many ways it is a reflection of my life, starting things but never bringing them to conclusion, and is probably another symptom of the new non-linear norm of the internet age, although I have always been like this, since before the internet, so I can't blame everything on that.

I'm almost on 200 days no P and 9 months no PMO. Lost track about three months ago in a very strange occurance. I was having psychotic relapsing over Christmas, perceiving myself in a different reality to my parents and everyone else, and worse than usual, it seemed that other people were expriencing different realities too, in other words there were multiple disconnected realities crashing and diverging with each other. The divergence was quite striking, it seemed like our shared reality was beeing pulled apart, with us all moving in different directions, losing connections, losing our shared recognition of each other, then when I came out the other end, and reality coallessed again, I found something very strange. The counter in my personal diary saved on my computer had been messed around with, with the numbers changed and so on, to this day I have no idea how that happened, but I was never able to concentrate enough to correct it absolutely, however I no that I stopped P on the 6th of September, so I guess this is around 191 days today, give or take the odd day due to the difference in lengths of months. I should really work it out properly, but it feels like too much of an effort, and also I am much more happier not knowing, having spent the majority of my life counting days every day in an almost neurotic manner. For those who have only just started, it is a good discipline, but eventually you need to transcend it. Thank you.

Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #477 on: March 18, 2019, 06:53:26 AM »
So I've been thinking about how I relate to people politically. My mother says that I'm mostly philosophical and that is true in real life. However online is different. I would never dare to say the things I say online sometimes to people face to face. The anonymity and separation of distance caused by the medium of typed text makes it easier to vent safely. However is venting political or real practice of the art of politics? Venting is different from confession, it is giving voice to frustrations. Powerful leaders such as Fidel Castro would vent the frustrations of the masses giving voice to their collective frustrations and thus holding them in their thrall. However is this politics or oration? In truth I don't really know what politics is, not even the dictionary definition. For most of my life I have seen it as an attachment to ideals and personalities or organisations, the football fan mentality. Sometimes I write journalistic pieces, putting my personal spin on them, and other times I vent my personal frustrations, which is different from venting collective frustrations like leaders do, however as I said, I don't think either of these things are really practicing the art of politics. I'm going to at least look up the dictionary definition after writing these words. With regards to my venting, it comes across as obnoxious, and alienates me from my audience, making it hard for them to engage with me, even if they wanted to, which usually after reading my rants, they don't. As I said, I never do this in real life, only online, I think a lot of people vent online, and I don't think it is strictly speaking the same as trolling. Trolling is malicious, venting is a form of releasing frustrations. I think there is a difference between venting other people's frustrations and venting one's own, and there is also a difference between venting to people who share one's frustrations and venting to people who don't. Reflecting frustrations can be very useful for allowing people to see themselves clearly, throwing one's weight around, on the other hand, only makes you disliked. I need to meditate on or contemplate these ideas more, and get my act together. They say never discuss politics on a date, but that is not the same as being apolitical, indeed I think if you are really political in the true sense of the word, then that is very attractive, in other words, being political is different from discussing or philosophising about politics. I've already alienated a group of people who are very good at politics online, and unfortunately I keep returning to them with more alienating rants, digging myself into a deeper and deeper hole. This is something I've got to overcome. A true failure of myself. I've got to recognise my limitations and direct my energy to the right places. Thank you.

Pete McVries

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #478 on: March 18, 2019, 10:14:37 AM »
I had a very good friend once who I unfriended (in real life) eventually because I couldn't tolerate his bevaviour anymore. First of all, he was a facebook junkie (and to this day still is as far as I know) and he was a different persona online than he was in real life. And that was something I always hated. To make things worse, he thought he was very political and he would entrap several different people in political debates on the daily on facebook for everyone to see. But he didn't do that to healthily discuss things, he always chose a very strong standpoint and then he tried to shove his opinion down other peoples throats. A few times, he tried to do that with me and I always refuted him until he couldn't stand up to me anymore. But it stressed me the fuck out and I always thought to myself, why is this person, who I think is a very good friend of mine, trying to win debates against me online for everyone to see???

I have several other friends and when we discuss politics or other things where we might have different opinions, we always respect each other and try to understand what the other person's viewpoint is. I would agree that being political can be very attractive and I think it is totally wrong to be apolitical just to please the other person. But do it in a healthy way and try to be understanding. Discussing politics/religion/spirituality (for me) is not about winning debates but about broadening one's horizon.

Take care, man, it's always interesting to catch glimpses of your mind, you know, broadening my horizon ;)
nine months clean and counting...

Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #479 on: March 18, 2019, 10:38:17 AM »
Thank you Pete, I have been thinking about where my obnoxious behaviour online comes from, sometimes it is genuinely well placed, i.e. part of the process of polishing ones heart, which in Islam is known as Jihad, to site one particular tradition, other times I think it comes from a similar place to PMO addiction. I don't think motivation comes from the brain, but it is modulated by it. The amygdala reward centre which I have mentioned in the past and which has been identified as modulating fear and pleasure hormones as a means of rewarding behaviour, is very much linked to my political outbursts I think, i.e. they come from the dialectic between fear and pleasure, I am frightened by something in the world and how I imagine it might affect me, then take pleasure in venting it in an aggressive way making me feel powerful, boosting my ego, etc. I looked up the definition of politics, the following from Wikipedia:

"Politics refers to a set of activities associated with the governance of a country, or an area. It involves making decisions that apply to members of a group. It refers to achieving and exercising positions of governance—organized control over a human community, particularly a state."

So being political means acting in a way that achieves or exercises some position on the organisation of a collective. If being political comes from the dialectic of fear and pleasure then it is really coming from the baseist of instincts. As such it doesn't really achieve anything worthwhile other than satisfying the addiction to those instincts. Pleasure is a worthwhile aim, but pleasure at the expense of others is not. There is a line in the I Ching, the last topmost line of the hexagram about arguing, which states that one may gain a reputation for winning disputes, but such honours will be taken away time and time again, it is a yang line in a yin position, so the advice really is that at the end of a dispute one should concede, shake the other persons hand and acknowledge that a dispute takes the participation of both parties. I think most of the time when I am being obnoxious online I am trying to attract the attention of people I think are more powerful than me, wanting some of their power to rub off on me through interaction. Such narcissism is a mistake. The truth is that we are all equally powerful, it is how we exercise that power that counts, exercising power correctly is what separates the great from the good. I agree that respect is paramount in debating with people. Thank you.

Pete McVries

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #480 on: March 18, 2019, 10:41:34 AM »
I think, that is a great conclusion you've come up with. Try to integrate that in your everyday behaviour and you will come closer to your real self step by step.
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Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #481 on: March 20, 2019, 10:58:05 AM »
So practice is definitely something that I want to get into. But to do that I need to master my self. I've tended to practice on and off, never really dedicating commitment to one occupation, or discipline, to use another word, though if I am truthful, reasoning, philosophy, learning, has always been my raison d'etre, hence the interest in mathematics which is largely beyond me, at least in terms of protracted concentration. Little things like doing my ironing every day, I've largely ignored, but am now trying to do on a semi-regular basis. My mother is still much better than I at it, she says its a topological problem, which it is, and she seems to be able to stretch the fabric flat with a few simple waves of the heated iron perfectly, which I still believe is a form of magic that I am far from mastering. I want to start visualisation meditation again, I have a specific exercise on CD that I used to do with my meditation teacher on the three chakras known in China as the three dan tiens, these are the solar plexus, the heart and the brow. The colours used are different from those that mainstream yogis taught, and this difference, along with the difference between the system of seven chakras in yoga nad three dan tiens in qi gong made me pause my practice before I had developed a more complete understanding. Interestingly the only two spheres that can be parallelized are the three dimensional sphere and the seven dimensional sphere and I wonder if this has something to do with the difference between working with the three dan tiens and working with the seven chakras. I'm still not sure about how the integrated system of both works, I think not even university mathematicians know that, as I'm convinced it is related to the solution of the earth-moon problem in part whose solution has only been bounded as being somewhere between 9 and 12 inclusive by academics. However, as I said, it is practice that I want to do, rather than auditing the theory, parallelizing a sphere results in the creation of the tangent sphere, and so I believe that by working on these meditations I can strengthen the health of my energy body, assuming tangent spheres actually exist and are not just theoretical constructs. Anyway, I have a plan to start earning some money in six months time, and want to spend the intervening months preparing for the work. At the moment, just reading about mastering my desires is helpful, I'm following an American translation of the yogic system of four desires defined by dharma, artha, kama and moksha, which I translate with some overlap as purpose, survival, pleasure and freedom. This hopefully will help me to start to practice with more intent. Thank you.

Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #482 on: March 20, 2019, 02:11:28 PM »
Just a quick note, the three dan tiens actually differ from the three centres that my meditation teacher teaches in that the first of the dan tiens is the gut whereas the first of the centres is the solar plexus, both fit into the seven chakra system, whether they are merely subsets, or there is a fundamental difference between the system of three and the system of seven as in the difference between a three dimensional sphere and a seven dimensional sphere, the only two that can be parallelized (allowing the formation of tangent spheres) I'm not sure, more research on my part is needed. However, as I said, what I really need to do at some point is practice for my own survival and health, which will take some rewiring of the reward centre in my brain to achieve. Thank you.

Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #483 on: March 21, 2019, 06:48:43 AM »
So I only managed five days straight of reading everyday, actually forgetting to read yesterday as opposed to remembering to and not being able to bring myself to do it. This is worse than the seven days I did before, but at least with just forgetting, I haven't built up any resistance in my mind, so I can just start again today. Training myself not to seek instant gratification is key. Someone told me the difference between gambling and investing, investing means taking the long term perspective. I need to invest more in my future so I can climb out of my present state. Thank you.

Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #484 on: March 22, 2019, 05:48:40 AM »
So I read a chapter of my book on mastering or managing one's desires according to some Yogic inspired teachings. I've come to the first exercise, which is supposed to take at least an hour, whereby one writes some creative writing in order to uncover a phrase that succinctly describes one's dharma or life purpose. I don't really want to read anymore of the book until I've done this exercise, whilst at the same time I am feeling resistance to doing it. The idea that a succinct phrase capturing one's life purpose can help to focus one on one's strengths and motivate one in to doing what is most beneficial for one's life, makes sense, but it also seems too final. Drifting, which is what I am doing now, seems easier and more open ended. Without limits, one can't progress, I know that, so it really would be a good idea to do the exercise. I think drifting is linked to the process of instant gratification, with no long term aims. The creative writing is actually split into four pieces of writing, one for each of the forms of desire mentioned in the book, so I could potentially spread it out over four days, doing fifteen minutes or so on each, each day. Thinking about it now, that is what I'll do, so I'll try and do the first bit of writing today. Coming up to 200 days no P. Soon it will be seven months. Had a good chat with the lady I have been dating for what seems like ages without any physical interaction. We discussed sexual chemistry and whether she thought I was just stringing her along. It was a good discussion, and at the end I started to feel quite aroused, which hasn't happened much in my interaction with her before. However, my brain has still been wired to turn to MO rather than sex when aroused and I cut the conservation short and went back to trying to focus on asexual things. That this was my reaction worries me somewhat and I regret not trying to get even more intimate. I don't know how to address this at the moment. Will keep you all updated. Thank you.

Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #485 on: March 22, 2019, 01:16:09 PM »
So after nine months no PMO, six and a half months no P, I PMOd today. It feels like all my progress has been lost, but I need to focus on the positives. Nine months is the longest I've ever been without PMO, my previous record being six months. Six and half months is the longest I've ever been without P, my previous record being five months. I am succeeding. I still don't want to be forty and searching for P. I need to focus on the positives and step up my rewiring process. That means addressing not just PMO but instant gratification in general. I came across the following article: https://blog.iqmatrix.com/instant-gratification which I think is helpful, applies to PMO and instant gratification in general. Summarising the first five steps from the article we have:

Step 1: Know What You Want. ...
Step 2: Identify Potential Obstacles. ...
Step 3: Build a Strong Support Network. ...
Step 4: Set Clear Boundaries. ...
Step 5: Create a Reward System. ...

As you can see these apply to learning to invest in long term gratification, something that I believe is a must for overcoming PMO. The first step overlaps with the first step in my book on mastering or managing desires. Knowing what you want and knowing your life purpose are slightly different things in that you may want something that is not in keeping with your life purpose. This is why I am still hesitant to do the life purpose exercise. The idea behind the life purpose exerices is to harmonise your desire for purpose with your natural strengths, those that you have been endowed with since birth. This way, you should succeed at life by playing to your strengths. I can see the logic in this. But I can also see that setting challenging goals that go against your natural calling is a way of developing yourself as well. Indeed a life coach I know of made the statement, "always do that which requires the most emotional effort", in other words, if you want to develop yourself, always choose the most challenging option. The book about mastering or managing your desires is about finding happiness. Developing yourself may not necessarily be a happy experience. Taken together, steps 1, 2 and 4 address this contradiction. Know what you want, identify potential obstacles and set clear boundaries. Indeed, to my mind, the idea that you even have an absolute life purpose is suspect, there are no absolutes. Identifying the thing you want that is most in line with your natural endowments may make it easier to succeed at life and easier to be happy, but it doesn't mean that you can't challenge yourself by playing to desires that are outside of that. This is where identifying potential obstacles and setting clear boundaries comes in. Building a strong support network, like we have here, and setting up a reward system are also crucial. Too often the reward is to relapse after you've beaten your record, or spent a long time in abstinance, the reward may even be writing here and getting a response from someone else. This is not a reward system, but a return to instant gratification. A reward system is a planned system of rewards for long term success. I have met and exceeded my target of the last five years or so. I'm not going to let myself slip again. I read a chapter of my clinical evidence book today. I will do the exercise for identifying my life purpose soon, though I am putting it off for the time being, it being too soon after my relapse. I'm going to start doing some maths revision again. There are twenty one chapters left of my clinical evidence book, so I'm going to do twenty one days of reading a chapter a day and doing some maths revision. Then I'm going to reward myself. I need to think of what that reward can be. I'm not sure what the difference between a reward that is a form of planned instant gratification and a reward that is a form of long term gratification is. Whether it is chemical or transcendental or something else. Taking a break, rest, is a form of reward, and this might be the best form of all, in the same way that meditation rewards us from the chatter of our mind, or a good nights sleep rewards us from a hard days work. Other forms of reward are things like experiencing beauty, for example a holiday in a naturally idyllic environment. Not every reward is like a sugar or dopamine rush. I'll have to think about my how and when I'm going to reward myself some more. My twenty one days to finish my book and do some maths revision start now. I'm not sure what stage I'm at in the process of rewiring my sexual relationships. But I do know that I have done better than I have ever done before and I will do better than even this in the coming months and years. Thank you.

Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #486 on: March 23, 2019, 07:54:36 AM »
So as always after relapsing after a long stint of abstinence, I feel motivated to try and better myself again. It shouldn't be this way. I don't want to have to rely on relapsing to motivate myself. I had been stagnating. Now I am doing half-an-hour's maths revision every day and reading two chapters a day of books. It is not much, but it is much more than what I was doing before. This is why I really have to focus on getting away from instant gratification over the long term. I'm setting myself a target of maintaining this level of study for three weeks. I will reward myself with a cheesecake (I know it sounds funny, but I do like cheesecake) at the end of each week successfully completed. The difficult part will be after three weeks. Setting an open ended study is problematic because it means that I just tail off eventually. What has tended to happen, is that the moment I miss a day of my study routine, I have simply collapsed. So the real challenge will be being able to start again after taking a couple of days to a week's break after the three weeks are up. This is about learning to time manage. Factoring in breaks, so that it is not open ended, whilst keeping the momentum. Being able to stop and start study at will, rather than just frantic motivation caused by wanting to make up for PMO relapse followed by drifting in the dull drums until I relapse again. So I need to think how I can manage a break after three weeks and then a restart for another three weeks without relapse. I'm going to see if Google has any answers to this. There are some videos on overcoming instant gratification that I'm going to watch as well. One thing I know is that I'm not going back to the same addictive behaviour again. There are just over nine months till the end of the year. I'm going to make it through that time without PMO, I promise. So today is the first day of twenty one in which I'm studying and reading. Thank you.

Pete McVries

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #487 on: March 23, 2019, 09:26:45 AM »
Cheesecake, hmmmmm. Add some blueberries and you have me by the balls ;D. Good luck with your reading/studying, it's inspiring to read about your efforts. Keep going, mate!
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Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #488 on: March 23, 2019, 11:36:51 AM »
So I'm not going to go back to my old ways of addiction. I have just over nine months of the year left. I'm not going to be searching for P in my forties. I've set myself a target for the next three weeks, half-an-hours maths revision and read two chapters of my books everyday. I've set myself a reward system, cheesecake at the end of each week successfully completed. So I have some boundaries and some level of reward. I'm thinking that I should make the boundaries stricter, laying out specific times in the day when I do my activities. I think that might make it easier to start again after a break at the end of three weeks. I have a lot of resistance to setting definite or specific times. It is part of the mentality of drifting, doing things on a whim, in an undisciplined manner. However I think it is something I should do. I'm going to do the first week unstructured and then set some times for the second week. I've read the first chapter of the day already today and done fifteen minutes maths revision. I also did some ironing. I still have to read a second chapter and do another fifteen minutes of maths. Breaking up the day means breaking up the flow of my thoughts. It means directing my attention to things outside of me, introducing thoughts that do not come from myself. Reading is very different from browsing the internet. When browsing, there is still a lot of direction coming from within, one chooses what to read or click on. Being able to concentrate on one thing outside of oneself for a sustained period of time and then integrate it into the flow of one's daily thoughts is a skill I have lost somewhat. Drifting, browsing, does not feel any more satisfactory, but it does fit with the instant gratification model which I am so used to. I impatiently search for the next hit which acts to create momentum to my flow of thoughts. The long term gratification model, the disciplined gratification model, these affect the flow of my thoughts differently. Actually thinking about time in the day, thinking about the need to meet certain requirements, disrupts the flow. That is until the new routine is established. Establishing a strict routine is the opposite of instant gratification. No one likes being aware of time, but having a naturally ordered structure is good. Making an artificial structure natural is a question of settling into it, acclimatising so to speak. I don't know if I need to develop a more detailed reward system to compliment setting specific times. I think that might be a good idea too. Maybe allowing myself a coffee after each thing is completed, or writing here, which is also a reward in a sense for me. The blog article I linked in my previous post says that using instant gratification activities or stimulations for rewards is ok if it is part of a structure, in other words it is within your control, linking instant gratification to long term gratification in a constructive structured way. I'm not really sure about this, whether instant gratification can ever be anything other than self-destructive and addictive for me. Maybe I am being too reductionist. Gratification after long term effort is not instant, even if the brain chemistry is. Anyway, I'm waffling a lot, trying to talk myself into long term self-development. As I said, I've read one chapter and done one half of my revision, now I have to read another chapter and do the other half. Thank you.

Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #489 on: March 24, 2019, 04:46:19 AM »
So yesterday was a success. But... There are at least twelve hours in the day, I managed about an hour in total of doing something productive split into four fifteen minute sessions spread across the day. It felt like I'd done a lot, but one hour out of twelve is really nothing. If I'm ever going to get back into work I need to be able to do much more than this. My casual work as a research assistant was six hours per week, so less than an hour a day. Maybe it is not so bad, but the average working week is forty eight hours per week. The key thing is consistency for me, though. I couldn't even complete the twelve weeks of casual work as I had a psychotic relapse in the middle. I don't put this down to the work, other factors were at play, but it does show my current limitations. I finished everything by 18:00 yesterday, starting at around 12:00pm after spending some time with my brother. So one hour within six. Today is day two of my three week challenge. The key for me is to make it to the end of three weeks having done what I have already laid out to do. If I manage more, then all to the good. I'm going to try and get everything done today by 12:00pm, starting at 10:00am. Study is demanding, and I need time to process the information I acquire. I spend 90% of my time contemplating, just letting my thoughts drift, and processing my life and understanding of the world. A lot of this is down to having had such earth-shattering experiences whilst psychotic. Fitting everything together into a coherent world view is difficult and I have to take it slow. Writing helps a lot. I waste a lot of time drinking coffee in my local café. I'm not allowed to smoke in the house, so that is another reason I go there besides the caffeine. I drink about five to six coffees a day, and it must be affecting me in some way, although I don't notice any bad effects at all. I think it helps to balance the meds that I'm on which have a side effect of making you drowsy. Coffee and cigarettes are another form of instant gratification. Delaying these until after I have completed my study tasks is a way of taking ownership of the addictions, whilst at the same time could form a sort of reward system for the long term investment that study affords. So anyway, today is day two. I will do fifteen minutes revision at 10:00am and then read a chapter of one of my books, before going to the café at 11:00am. Then I will do another fifteen minutes revision and read another chapter of one of my books. Thank you.

Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #490 on: March 24, 2019, 02:22:21 PM »
So what led me to PMO again? I can't help but note that it came shortly after joining an interpersonal relationship forum for talking about dating, friendships, marriages, love, sexual relations, etc. etc. I felt like I was not getting anywhere with the woman I had been dating which was the reason I joined. Some of the advice I have received there has helped me, but the fact is I PMOd shortly after joining. One can infer cause and effect between any two events separated by an interval of time if one tries hard enough, but this connection certainly seems relevant to me. I need to make the choice not to PMO and commit to it. One good thing is I did my study for today, hopefully I will be able to do the full twenty one days of this. Thank you.

Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #491 on: March 25, 2019, 06:02:31 AM »
So the problem with relapsing is it gives you the impression that you've changed your mind, because you made a choice to relapse, and thus you've already made the choice. I want to read up on the dopamine dysregulation that PMO causes and hypofrontality, under performance of the frontal lobes. I get the impression that these two things are related to executive decision making regulation by the brain. Ultimately I think the brain doesn't make decisions, it only modulates or regulates them, we ourselves, our souls or our God part makes the decision. However the modulation and regulation by the brain is important as it changes how we perceive our choices.

So far the only bit of the brain I've read up on is the amygdala which sets up the dialectic between fear and pleasure. I also want to pursue understanding this as it relates to my fear of physical intimacy, and the messed up wiring of my reward system for sexual pleasure that years of PMO abuse has caused.

With regards to rewiring and self-development, I still need to focus on moving away from addiction to instant gratification in all walks of life, and rewire with regards to investing in long term gratification or joy. However I also need to put more conscious direction into developing my ability to have sexual relationships.

I am getting close to forty years of age, and hoping that time will simply heal my wiring is not good enough. I dated a woman for four months and we didn't even kiss and that was entirely due to my bad wiring. I need to be more proactive in addressing these problems, not just wait and hope everything will resolve itself.

With this in mind, I've ordered a couple of books on intimacy. These will be my starting point. I'm also going to Google the top ten romance novels and top ten dating books and read through those to give me a better idea of how women feel sexually, what sort of responses and approaches they appreciate and so on.

Ignoring this aspect of my reboot allowed me to abstain for a sustained period of time, but when I finally did come to try and address it I relapsed, showing that the journey has only just begun with respect to love.

The key is build on the progress I have made, not look back, and make the choice to never search for P again.

Thank you.

Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #492 on: March 25, 2019, 01:42:54 PM »
So almost finished day 3 of my three week study and reading challenge, just one fifteen minute session of revision to go.

In the mean time I've been thinking a bit more about my experience with sexual relationships. I came across the following article:
https://www.elitedaily.com/dating/sex/why-you-should-never-date-a-philosopher

The five key points are as follows:

1. We think we’re very smart and can be very stubborn.
2. We can love very deeply, but rarely allow ourselves to.
3. Since we question everything, we will inevitably question whether or not we love you.
4. Our heads are our playground, and we may spend more time in there alone than some may find acceptable.
5. We’re lone wolves by nature and sometimes still think we’d be better off alone.

All of this seems very familiar and applicable to me and it makes me think that if I'm going to succeed at sexual relationships, I have to learn to turn the philosopher part of my personality off. Indeed I'd already realised that to some extent when I realised that I had to listen more without questioning. Philosophising helps one to negotiate personal problems on one's own, other people can find it interesting when it provides a framework for resolving their own problems, raising questions they hadn't thought of before, but both of these things act to separate the relationship into one of teacher-student which is not what healthy sexual relationships are about, a meeting of equals. When I raised the issue of me getting involved in polics and being political, my mother said I spend most of my time philosophising. As I said, being successful politically and demonstrating that is sexually attractive, struggling to understand things, raising questions about things outside of a relationship is not sexually attractive, it is work, and work is the biggest turn off for sex. A loving relationship involves dividing tasks and work and so in a marriage, inevitably there is some discussion of mutual concerns, but raising individual concerns that are not about the relationship is divisive. Philosophising tends to show that one loves one's own mind more than one loves anothers. Indeed philo actually means love of companionship, and philosophy means love of the companionship of wisdom. Thus philosophising tends to show that one loves the companionship of one's own wisdom, it is not even demonstrating wisdom, providing solutions to other's problems, but demonstrating a love for one's wisdom over the wisdom of another. I think the first step is learning to listen, which I have been doing, learning to love the other person for who they are, without judging whether what they are saying is wise or not. This opens one to new experiences, including sexual ones, since wisdom comes from the knowledge of old experiences. Being wise is the ability to choose between new experiences successfully in light of the old. Sometimes, however, in order to stay fresh, one has to take a risk. Thank you.

Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #493 on: March 26, 2019, 05:03:25 AM »
So today is day four of my 21 day reading and study challenge. I'm going to try and get all my prescribed reading and study done by 13:00 each day from now on, starting with today. Haven't got much else to say. Thank you.

malando

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #494 on: March 26, 2019, 12:29:57 PM »
So almost finished day 3 of my three week study and reading challenge, just one fifteen minute session of revision to go.

In the mean time I've been thinking a bit more about my experience with sexual relationships. I came across the following article:
https://www.elitedaily.com/dating/sex/why-you-should-never-date-a-philosopher

The five key points are as follows:

1. We think we’re very smart and can be very stubborn.
2. We can love very deeply, but rarely allow ourselves to.
3. Since we question everything, we will inevitably question whether or not we love you.
4. Our heads are our playground, and we may spend more time in there alone than some may find acceptable.
5. We’re lone wolves by nature and sometimes still think we’d be better off alone.

All of this seems very familiar and applicable to me and it makes me think that if I'm going to succeed at sexual relationships, I have to learn to turn the philosopher part of my personality off. Indeed I'd already realised that to some extent when I realised that I had to listen more without questioning. Philosophising helps one to negotiate personal problems on one's own, other people can find it interesting when it provides a framework for resolving their own problems, raising questions they hadn't thought of before, but both of these things act to separate the relationship into one of teacher-student which is not what healthy sexual relationships are about, a meeting of equals. When I raised the issue of me getting involved in polics and being political, my mother said I spend most of my time philosophising. As I said, being successful politically and demonstrating that is sexually attractive, struggling to understand things, raising questions about things outside of a relationship is not sexually attractive, it is work, and work is the biggest turn off for sex. A loving relationship involves dividing tasks and work and so in a marriage, inevitably there is some discussion of mutual concerns, but raising individual concerns that are not about the relationship is divisive. Philosophising tends to show that one loves one's own mind more than one loves anothers. Indeed philo actually means love of companionship, and philosophy means love of the companionship of wisdom. Thus philosophising tends to show that one loves the companionship of one's own wisdom, it is not even demonstrating wisdom, providing solutions to other's problems, but demonstrating a love for one's wisdom over the wisdom of another. I think the first step is learning to listen, which I have been doing, learning to love the other person for who they are, without judging whether what they are saying is wise or not. This opens one to new experiences, including sexual ones, since wisdom comes from the knowledge of old experiences. Being wise is the ability to choose between new experiences successfully in light of the old. Sometimes, however, in order to stay fresh, one has to take a risk. Thank you.
So when are you going to take a risk, Georgos? Are you going to philosophise your way to taking a risk - thereby seeking to decrease the risk factor? Or are you just going to take a risk? When does theory become practice? As a scientist, do you see merit in empirical/experiential research on this (dive in take a chance), or will you inch your way there through the evolution of your theories? I'm not trying to be sarcastic here, but I do think you need to think about how painstaking/exhaustive this process is for you and how it precludes some important elements of the sexual equation from ever being possible: namely, the mystery factor of sexual attraction,  the enjoyment of something irrational in nature, that is, the intentional avoidance of rational analysis in experiencing sexual/romantic pleasure. I think the human brain is designed to shut out excessive thinking when seeking pleasure. It's an evolutionary design to stop us from talking/thinking ourselves out of the reproductive act. People who think about things too much don't find themselves in that magical place where sexual chemistry exists. Not that we need to become blithering idiots when we are romantically or sexually entangled, but seeking to examine our connection with somebody with whom we are being intimate will almost certainly annihilate the magical feelings. It starts as critical analysis, then becomes scepticism and doubt. This is where intelligent people struggle because they are used to deconstructing everything and it seems wrong to them not to deconstruct their relationships too. The smartest "intelligent" people create exceptions in which some things are not treated to the same rigorous analysis as other things are. You don't need to question your love for your dog or your child, for example. You simply embrace the experience and revel in that connection. Romantic feelings with another person rely on both parties leaving the analysis at the door to a large extent. The bond is formed in these embryonic stages when analysis is minimal  - if not intentional. Practicalities can enter later.

aquarius25

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #495 on: March 26, 2019, 12:49:47 PM »
So I have just read a large part of this journal. I have to say I completely respect just how much you put into your analysis and thoughts. Quite the deep thinker and defiantly appreciated your perspective on many things. I am inclined to agree with Malando though, you gotta take a risk as well. Thinking and philosophizing is only one part of the life experience. What about feeling? I understand that individuals that are very deep thinkers tend to live in the mind more but I do believe that a balance is important. Have you considered taking an art class? That might be a good way to try? Art is very expressive and can be feeling base as well as intellectual. Taking a class also lends itself to you being around others and having the opportunity to interact, connect, and hear as well as see different perspectives of art. Just a thought. I mean this post to be encouraging and hope you receive it as such.

Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #496 on: March 26, 2019, 02:33:53 PM »
Thank you Malando and Aquarius for your kind and helpful comments. Malando, I have been dating somebody for four months and we have yet to even kiss, however I'm not sure this is so much about risk as about sexual chemistry, which has been lacking. A bigger risk for me to take would be to start trying to date somebody else, at the moment I am not thinking of doing that, rather I am hoping that the situation with the woman I am dating will improve from a sexual chemistry point of view over time. I don't think you can force these things, in the mean time I view it merely as a learning curve, which perhaps isn't very fair on the woman I'm dating, but hey, she can walk away too if she wants.

Aquarius, art classes are a good idea. What I really wanted to do, but chickened out, was acting classes. I thought that would really help me a lot.

Anyway, I have done my study and reading for the day, completing day four of my challenge. Seventeen days to go. I also remind myself to make the choice not to PMO. Thank you.

Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #497 on: March 27, 2019, 05:27:04 AM »
So day five of my 21 day reading and study challenge. Again I want to get everything done by 13:00. Thank you.

aquarius25

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #498 on: March 27, 2019, 11:48:34 AM »
Gerorgos, an acting class is great and encourages interaction as well but I also believe that some form of 2D or 3D art that you can also practice at home is good for using the right side of your brain more. I think considering how introspecting you are that you might find you really enjoy taking these philosophic concepts and putting imagery around them. Just a thought. Good luck to you!

Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #499 on: March 28, 2019, 05:01:08 AM »
Thanks aquarius, I'll look into it. At the moment I'm just trying to focus on getting through my 21 day challenge or reading and studying of which today is day six. Am going to try and get everything done by 13:00 again. With regards to relationships, I'm hoping my reading will help, but it may take me more into my mind again, I really don't know what to do, somebody told me you can't force sexual chemistry, I don't want to lose the relationship I have at the moment, but I'm seriously considering trying to find other ones, though I don't know how I'd go about that other that internet dating again, which I'm hesitant to do. Persevering with this relationship in the meantime is probably good for me anyway. So as I said, today is day six. Thank you.