Author Topic: I know I'm awesome, and I need time, help and action to become actualised  (Read 66741 times)

fyg

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1MO... This is no easy thing man. I know now, that I just can not touch it, as it most often leads to MO. Tried to do to sensation at first, but wasn't very responsive, so added some fantasy. Have also changed my MO goal to 30 days rather than 90. For now, this is more realistic.

What's pissing me off though, is that I don't care that much. Had a pang of regret a few mins ago, though. But overriding feeling is one of apathy.

A thought: I have a social engagement tomorrow evening, and maybe MO is a way that helps me to control my 'baser instincts'. Maybe I am afraid of these instincts. Maybe it's not this at all, but I also seem to remember MO'ing pre-dates in the past too, and thinking, "man, I'm sabotaging myself". Anyway... Just a thought. Maybe I have quite a bit of guilt surrounding sex. That's how it feels right now. Like oooh, you can't go somewhere where there might be the possibility of sex might occur... what if this happens, that happens... you upset somebody; use somebody; get used!!

Had some serious self-loathing today, as have been thinking of the 'giving up process' a lot... And considered myself a self-indulgent twat (what I think others would think). Aka... their thoughts "wish I had the spare time to think and worry (oh poor me!) about giving up porn all day". And, you know what, there is some truth in that.

Another final thought... Oh, fuck it. Enough thought...  I'm also feel like I'm seeking attention with this post (which probably am a little, lot, who knows).

Anyways...

Peace, Brothers.
H.A.L.T - Hungry Angry Lonely Tired
Wherever water flows it creates ruts. Where is your mental water flowing?
PMO increases DeltaFosB in your brain, which in turn makes you crave the next PMO even more. DON'T DO IT! Your future self will thank you :)
PMO & excessive MO fux up your Prefrontal Cortex

Branch

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fyg,

In the last couple of days you, BlueSun, Chip and I have all fallen back into the porn trap.  Just wanted you to know you're not alone. 

And the apathy, self-loathing and fuck more thoughts--I know all about them, too.  Probably all of us dealing with this godawful mess have felt the same way at times. 

The self-sabotage is something you probably can't figure out till you're done with porn.  It could be one of those tricks the mind plays to get you back to porn.   God knows my mind plays all sorts of tricks to get me back into it.

It's OK to be down.   It's OK to be human.  I'd say, too, that it's better to be pissed off about not caring than not caring about not caring. 

Let's put this fucking porn behind us.

fyg

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fyg,

In the last couple of days you, BlueSun, Chip and I have all fallen back into the porn trap.  Just wanted you to know you're not alone. 

And the apathy, self-loathing and fuck more thoughts--I know all about them, too.  Probably all of us dealing with this godawful mess have felt the same way at times. 

The self-sabotage is something you probably can't figure out till you're done with porn.  It could be one of those tricks the mind plays to get you back to porn.   God knows my mind plays all sorts of tricks to get me back into it.

It's OK to be down.   It's OK to be human.  I'd say, too, that it's better to be pissed off about not caring than not caring about not caring. 

Let's put this fucking porn behind us.

Thanks Branch! It's good to know that we feel the same; that we all have shared experiences.

Quote
And the apathy, self-loathing and fuck more thoughts--I know all about them, too.  Probably all of us dealing with this godawful mess have felt the same way at times. 
- I was wondering... do others get this? So, cooool, man. Much appreciated.

It's been a long day, but wanted to comment before I went to sleep.

Cheers buddy, and yes! "Let's put this fucking porn behind us". I was reading your journal today, btw ;)

Today has been better than yesday. And for the first time in a while, have been feeling stronger.

« Last Edit: May 06, 2016, 07:14:02 PM by fyg »
H.A.L.T - Hungry Angry Lonely Tired
Wherever water flows it creates ruts. Where is your mental water flowing?
PMO increases DeltaFosB in your brain, which in turn makes you crave the next PMO even more. DON'T DO IT! Your future self will thank you :)
PMO & excessive MO fux up your Prefrontal Cortex

fyg

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I've M'd since I was about 15... That's about 25 years... So I'm gonna try and be easy on myself in what I, in my specific journey and what we're all dealing with in our own ways...

Anyway, M was definitely enjoyable in my teens (especially at first, my Music teacher was hot (hey, it's true))... Now, it's a coping mechanism (as well as stress reliever, of course) - shit, same thing, right! And thinking, it was also a coping mechanism back then after a while, girls I was attracted to, but didn't do anything about - though, I'm sure every single male will remember that to some degree from their teenage years!

The reason I'm talking about M, is that I Just got a message from a girl I like. The first thing I went to do to deal with the 'stress' and endorphins that flooded my body** ????

M !! Have a wank.

I didn't, but that is how I sometimes deal with situations with possible sexual potential... And that was my first reaction to the message; one of sexual promise. I have already slept with this person, and thus got some 'visual' stimuli too come flooding into my mind, which, I'm sure, makes me lose my shit a bit more - especially as the union (hey, why not, it's a true description) was 'incomplete', partly due to ED too. And to deal with that promise, and the pressure of messaging (I'm terrible at messaging full stop, but especially with women I'm attracted to), and the thought that things will 'fuck up', before they've even started, right?! I'll jerk-off. Again, though, I haven't.

From my background, from around 15 to almost 25, I dealt with sexual urges through M. Using soft porn, Porn & Fantasy to O. Sometimes from intense horniness induced by drug use also. I lost my virginity around 24 coming 25 with a flurry of activity; had opportunity to lose my it before, but it just didn't happen. I think looking back now, it was partly as I was just too afraid to show vulnerability.  Had a girlfriend-of-sorts in my early thirties (the first person I had sex with more than just a handful of times), and then a serious girlfriend, three/four years ago now (I'm 40). Had some internet dates before that and upto last year, that proved fruitful.

Over the last or so year I've had a few dates with a snog here and there, a couple of those dates could have led to sex, almost definitely, and three other none-dates did lead to it. This is the most concentrated period of activity with regards to dating and sex I've had to date, and has been a point-of-note in my journey. I mention it, as even though my sexual life has 'improved', in that I've put myself out-there, and had some results from hard work and luck, PMO & M is still there in the background, as I've spent more time with these coping mechanisms than real women in my life as a whole.

Just wanted to share that M is a way I deal with Life! (and have read others do too).  I want to see that dependence decrease!! ;)

Anybody has tips for not M'ing, to tying oneself to the mast of the ship to avoid the call of the beckoning 'Sirens'... Please share with me :)

Shit, chaps! I'm posting this as I've been working in it for 2 hours!!! lol. It felt important to share this as a story of M & PMO.

Peace

** I know you guys are knowledgeable, but I wondered if endorphins and neurotransmitters are the same thing... http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/endorphins.htm
H.A.L.T - Hungry Angry Lonely Tired
Wherever water flows it creates ruts. Where is your mental water flowing?
PMO increases DeltaFosB in your brain, which in turn makes you crave the next PMO even more. DON'T DO IT! Your future self will thank you :)
PMO & excessive MO fux up your Prefrontal Cortex

BlueSun

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Hi there... I think we're all building this bridge as we walk on it, to appropriate a book title that probably has nothing to do with this.

I wrote a long goodbye letter to porn as if I were parting with a friend. It was cheesy and eloquent and touching and a little over the top but I needed to say goodbye.  In a way it had always been there when I felt lonely, afraid, anxious, bored, restless, joyful, and even (interesting that I remembered this last) horny.  Although I couldn't remember any meaningful moments of my time with porn, I have a trillion memories of the guilt, shame, remorse, elation, confusion, shock, doubt, disbelief, suprise, letdown of the jizz cleanup routine, which involved trying to not get it everywhere, unhinging my back and neck from whatever contortion I held, and of course trying to preserve another piece of clothing when I had already gone through two t shirts, a pair of jeans, and another pair of clean shorts  with my latest culminations.

So those pathways linger. And I find the more I open up about them, the more Light I shine on them, the less power they have. And then to know for certain that this little prison I've been trapped in was much larger, and held more men with the same torment, and that I could write it here and for once accept it myself, know that most of the guys here know the score cuz they've been there too.

Along the way, I am realizing my mind still thinks that MO is the way to make it go away when one of the above reasons to pmo crop up.  When I removed the P I thought the MO would be under control. But so far, so early in my recovery, M or O leads to MO leads to PMO and I'm not quite ready for that.

But in realizing the feeling that I need to M, I've tried to pause, maybe go outside, and figure out where it started, what was the beginning of the craving.  Yesterday, I realized it was because my back was really sore. I wanted to feel better.  Last week, when I relapsed, It started with 'fuck it' and I stopped wanting to try. Stopped wanting to fight, to struggle in this battle.  I was mentally and physically beat.  I didn't have remorse after, in fact I went to sleep and slept for a long time. I'm now wondering what would have happened if I had just taken a nice long nap instead of a fap and a nap.

I don't think every craving means there's a physiological or psychological need behind it.  But I do know that taking better care of myself is a part of this work. So as a part of the rewire, if I start down the "I need to M" onramp, even if it ended in MO, stopping and making sure my needs are met, that I'm not hanging onto emotional shit or trying to get a high because I'm tired of feeling like I do, or even just tired.

I am Leary because days 7-10 have been days where I've broken my agreement with myself to be hands-off-the-junk and to give the ole libido a rest by M, then MO, then PMO.  I'm posting often. I'm building a relationship of trust with myself after having treated myself pretty grossly.  And I don't know what is on the other side of day 10.  I imagine I could give up broccoli for 90 days no problem.  This, though, this is hard. My resistance is low, though each day the resistance muscles are strengthening.

My inner child and inner adult yearn to hear male mentors tell me that I have what it takes, that I can do it, that I am enough.  That a scraped knee and a black eye are sometimes part of learning to play ball.  And that it is precisely when the game begins to get tough, the vote of confidence from our team is what helps us stand up and run even faster to home base.

YOU HAVE WHAT IT TAKES.
YOU CAN DO IT
YOU ARE ENOUGH

I'm rooting for you,

bluesun 
« Last Edit: May 07, 2016, 02:01:57 PM by BlueSun »

fyg

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I just needed to post this tonight (UK).

Often, when I message people, I really, REALLY, overthink things and take WAY too much time to construct a message. Because I often try to think what the other person is thinking, I think I tailor my responses so as to not offend, or make sure no consequence will incur. (Insight from therapy).

My posts may be short in the future, or may not address everything a poster has mentioned to me. To be fair, in the past, with people and friends-out-in-the-world, I've painstakingly made sure that I address EVERY point that they make in a letter, email or message to me.

You may be reading this thinking, why is he saying this? It's more to help me process the changes I'm trying to make in my life. Maybe it's as I'm getting a little older. But, it's just too much hard work and anxiousness (bad word choice!) to carry on super-analysing things, and taking ten times longer than it should to communicate with somebody. I hardly ever enjoy interactions with people in writing/typing through overthinking. And I dissipate too, too much energy doing this.

Peace Nation Bro's. x

fyg

2 MO to fantasy today and some P-subs - will talk again on this.

Bluesun: Thanks again, and I'll post soon :)
H.A.L.T - Hungry Angry Lonely Tired
Wherever water flows it creates ruts. Where is your mental water flowing?
PMO increases DeltaFosB in your brain, which in turn makes you crave the next PMO even more. DON'T DO IT! Your future self will thank you :)
PMO & excessive MO fux up your Prefrontal Cortex

BlueSun

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Hey bud.  Write what you feel like writing, not what you feel obligated to write. This is your journal.

fyg

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Hey Bluesun,

Thanks buddy. That helps man ;)

And just as a quick one, you may probably know already! But the 7-10 day thing is down (at least from what have read) to the 'testosterone peak'... A period I've struggled with two or three times before... Anyways... Like I said, you may/probably know, but just wanted to share and help.

Best. Cheers bro :)
H.A.L.T - Hungry Angry Lonely Tired
Wherever water flows it creates ruts. Where is your mental water flowing?
PMO increases DeltaFosB in your brain, which in turn makes you crave the next PMO even more. DON'T DO IT! Your future self will thank you :)
PMO & excessive MO fux up your Prefrontal Cortex

Leon

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My writing is somewhat similar, fyg. I'll over analyze my answers, or go point by point.

But, years on FB and before that Myspace, have helped to make my focus more laser like, hahaha.

fyg

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Hahaha, Leon. Nice :D
H.A.L.T - Hungry Angry Lonely Tired
Wherever water flows it creates ruts. Where is your mental water flowing?
PMO increases DeltaFosB in your brain, which in turn makes you crave the next PMO even more. DON'T DO IT! Your future self will thank you :)
PMO & excessive MO fux up your Prefrontal Cortex

fyg

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Read a few Nation Bro's posts tonight... and have held back from posting. Not totally sure why, but it has something to do with thinking I have to post, or that... hmmm... something I can't put my finger on right now. But, nonetheless, I'm with everybody who is fighting! And, fighting is a word I didn't like just a few weeks ago, as it always felt like a bullshit macho word. But now, some things you just have to fight, I'm starting to think.

P-subs from the other day that virtually followed my 2(MO) were from looking at a celebrities pictures I'd debated about the previous night with friends and acquaintances at the social thing I had.

I woke with a hangover (trigger), frustrated from the night before to do with dynamics with friends - should be more open here, but paranoid about being too obvious - And was feeling a bit hopeless for not 'capitalizing' on all the potential women that were around (but this is fucked up, and not really something that I thought of on the night) so, I MO'd.

But then, I was looking at the said debated celeb pics, they weren't that evocative, not too much. But, I then kept the name of the celeb and added 'naked' to the search (I sincerely hope this ISN'T triggery, please leave my post now, if so (Peace :)), this was more so evocative. And then I was searching for one of my favourite 'stars' for an hour through images. Most, when I went to look at image closer were blocked by K9.

I then watched a normal movie, but went back to looking for an hour afterwards too. I was SO fucking tempted to PMO it was unreal...

Anyway... I opened up the NoFap Emergency App https://emergency.nofap.com/ and read a couple of the emergency readings... a quote came up "I'm not telling you it's going to be easy, I'm telling you it's going to be worth it", watched a motivational video, and then went to look at an image again!!! (Only know this from my history), but it was blocked by K9. Used

I thought at the time, that man, I'm fucking with my dopamine with all this image searching, I might as well PMO! I used NoFap emergency again, which must have worked, and thought... that is so self-defeating, some dopamine trade-off bullshit you're trying to justify to PMO... Then, I went and had a coldish shower.

I've read others doing this... but looking back at my web-history, I can see it plain as day. Hangovers are very dodgy ground for me. Must be vigilant, as I saw another poster post today! Daaaaamn straight.

Today: Started the day with a cold shower, well colder than yesterday evening's. Later, I was tired after studies when I got home, and fell into some sort of weird stressed-out funk when lying on my bed as was tired... after eating some pizza and sugary cake. I was aching to MO... this was a weird feeling. Like apathy, tiredness and frustration all rolled into one. I went and had a cold shower again... This time, I took it quite cold indeed, in increments... It was frickin awesome!!!

I'll post the article at the end that inspired the shower, just here now.

Thanks for reading if you have, this bloody long post.

http://collegetopia.co/cold-showers-strange-addiction/
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 08:07:55 PM by fyg »
H.A.L.T - Hungry Angry Lonely Tired
Wherever water flows it creates ruts. Where is your mental water flowing?
PMO increases DeltaFosB in your brain, which in turn makes you crave the next PMO even more. DON'T DO IT! Your future self will thank you :)
PMO & excessive MO fux up your Prefrontal Cortex

BlueSun

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Movie star searches is one of my onramps too.  But you're doing it!  You're looking back and seeing the patterns.  And starting to see them before you fall into them again.  That's it!  It works for you! and it works for me because i get to hear you talk about it here.  And I can connect to it. 

I didnt' do K9 because i'm a tech and i'd just disable it as quickly as i put it on.  Not even worth the try for me.  But the allure, the search... that's been tough.  For movie stars i've limited my searches to wikipedia now. Although one day i even managed to find some nice triggering stuff in there (yeah, leave it to me to find pmo subs in wikipedia). 

It looks like failure but its not.  This is how we climb out.  The wall is slippery and covered in mud and grime.  And our feet and hands slip -- a lot.  But as we go up the wall, we get more nimble, better at it. 

I catch myself in mid p-sub all week and i think... holy shit, that is soooo clever.  If i could apply just a fraction of that cleverness in any other portion of my life, i'd be.... we'll, maybe i wouldn't be a recovering porn addict at least. 

Keep it up.  One day the beatings must stop. (the emotional kind)  (well the other kind to i guess).

fyg

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Thanks Bluesun, and I'm glad we can connect to each others journals, the same for me, by-the-way, I've been reading stuff in your that I totally understand.

That you have movie stars as an 'onramp' as you called it - nice metaphor - that day I posted, I started with movie star type person, more a celeb really, then added 'naked' to the search, and then changed the celeb for a P star actually. Not sure if that was clear, but hey, that was a couple of days ago now. Also, the letter to Porn you mentioned the other day, I started to write one, so thank you for that, man ;) But, I struggled when I got to a point where I was considering the very P actress I was looking at the other day in image searches. I'll post a brief thought about it in a minute, but keep it separate to this as it may be triggery, so you and all can ignore it, if they wish, there will be nothing sexually explicit in it, just that 'words have power' right, and I lapsed when I first came on partly here through reading someone else's post.

Re:
Quote
I catch myself in mid p-sub all week and i think... holy shit, that is soooo clever.  If i could apply just a fraction of that cleverness in any other portion of my life, i'd be.... we'll, maybe i wouldn't be a recovering porn addict at least. 
- I hear you there, but isn't that what we're doing here? Being critical and reflecting on our processes? I think that's what you meant, anyway. re: us looking back at our patterns?

Oh shit... one other point from the other day you mentioned that I didn't ask about, and apologies for going back in time, as, for me this is all about moving forward , you commented,
Quote
But so far, so early in my recovery, M or O leads to MO leads to PMO and I'm not quite ready for that.
, and I didn't quite understand. If you get chance... :)
H.A.L.T - Hungry Angry Lonely Tired
Wherever water flows it creates ruts. Where is your mental water flowing?
PMO increases DeltaFosB in your brain, which in turn makes you crave the next PMO even more. DON'T DO IT! Your future self will thank you :)
PMO & excessive MO fux up your Prefrontal Cortex

Boo

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fyg,

I hope you will sincerely think about this. You are playing games and your addictive mind is bargaining with you. I'm sorry to say, but you are still PMO'ing (don't let your counter fool you).  The following is an answer from a guy named William to the question of whether erotic literature is considered porn ( obviously posed by a person who is "bargaining") This may be the same William who is revered here, I'm not sure. This was copied from a  NoFap.com forum. (one I read but do not participate in ).  I merely submit it for your edification. If you disagree or even strongly disagree, IMHO, it is your bargaining, addict voice speaking to you. I sincerely want to see you win, if that is, you truly want to. ( FYI, William's answer is very rigid, but because of the dopamine connection to all of this I agree with about 99% of what he says)


"Hi Jay, porn is not just porn. Porn is any button we push to release dopamine. This is a repost:

Porn is seeing porn, it is watching it, it is thinking about it, it is imagining it, it is remembering it, it is thinking about it while MOing even if you are not actually watching it, it is PMOing, it is fantasizing, it is edging while watching or thinking about it, it is having actual sex while thinking of porn, it is porn substitutes, any hypersexualized imagery or thought of that. Porn can be strictly in the brain, or it can be in hard copy, it can be on computers, televisions, and on smart phones, as in apps. Porn is phone sex. Porn is engaging any thought of unreal sex. Porn is chat rooms. Porn is sex toys. For one guy in this forum, porn is a cock ring. Porn does not have to be visual, it can be strictly audio. Porn can be literature about sex. Porn does not have to be on porn sites, it can be found on Facebook, Craigslist, Youtube, etc. It can be found on commercial retail sites; Sears, Target, Walmart.

 For me, when I first started quitting, I told myself I was making progress because I moved from very hardcore stuff to Google images, where I searched vanilla nudes. Bikini pics trigger me. Lingerie models trigger me. Hooters girls trigger me. Just girls on the street trigger me if I let them, but I don't. I consciously have decided not to let hyper sexualized images linger in my head. Before, I was not making progress, I was still feeding my dopamine fix. You have to avoid your triggers, not flirt with them. Let me say this again--you have to avoid your triggers, not flirt with them.

Your triggers are not going to be merely the hardcore stuff you are trying to quit watching, they will be much softer stuff than can pop out on you from benign sites like Yahoo, Craigslist, Google. You have to know that in advance and plan on avoiding them. You have to get your dopamine levels back down. That will take time (could be 30 days) and requires a total absence of porn in your head. If you are walking down the street in the middle of the day thinking about porn, you are using porn, so find something else to pop in your head if that situation occurs.

For addicts, especially when we first quit, and we have not brought our dopamine levels back down, our brains look for any trigger it can find, even things society does not define as porn"
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 07:13:53 AM by Boo »

BlueSun

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Oh shit... one other point from the other day you mentioned that I didn't ask about, and apologies for going back in time, as, for me this is all about moving forward , you commented,
Quote
But so far, so early in my recovery, M or O leads to MO leads to PMO and I'm not quite ready for that.
, and I didn't quite understand. If you get chance... :)

I think you said it best here:
Quote
I know now, that I just can not touch it, as it most often leads to MO

My least favorite lesson so far.  I'm in flatline, and I want my junk to work.  Essentially that's why we're all here.  Another poster said it to me and I wanted to justify it away with philosophical BS, but its true.  My PIED was the red flag; everything else is a part of the healing. 

So along the way, it only makes sense for me to try to 'test' if my PIED is gone.  Does it work?  What if I just touch it lightly?  Is it more sensitive?  Will I be able to perform again?  Will I enjoy oral...? blah blah blah.  All really good questions.

But, every time I've relapsed, as far as I can tell, somewhere along the way there was a 'test' in the beginning.  And that stoked the fire.  Even if I was still in super-flatline-shrinkage-limp-noodle-useless-appendage mode, which I think I am, fiddling with it, caused some neural pathway to fire.  And in my head that turned on the "more more more more more" craving.  And right now, as early into my recovery as I am, I can barely deal with one mental "more" craving, much less "more more more more more".  I found myself testing the waters last night.  After all, it was my first evening of Day 10 without any relapse.  Ironic, isn't it.

I start playing with it, its M, plain and simple.  100% of the time, that became MO.  If not in a day, then in two.  And 100% of the time, one or more MO's became PMO.  Brutal fact.  (at least for me).  So for 90 days I'm a monk.  For 90 days, its offline baby.  As much as I can stand it.  It has to stop somewhere.  So I try to stop it early so I don't have to mentally armwrestle myself.  My resistance is low, my spiritual immune system is compromised, my confidence is shaken.  I'm building strength, but its taking time. 

fyg

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[/quote]

 I found myself testing the waters last night.  After all, it was my first evening of Day 10 without any relapse.  Ironic, isn't it.

I start playing with it, its M, plain and simple.  100% of the time, that became MO.  If not in a day, then in two.  And 100% of the time, one or more MO's became PMO.  Brutal fact.  (at least for me).  So for 90 days I'm a monk.  For 90 days, its offline baby.  As much as I can stand it.  It has to stop somewhere.  So I try to stop it early so I don't have to mentally armwrestle myself.  My resistance is low, my spiritual immune system is compromised, my confidence is shaken.  I'm building strength, but its taking time.
[/quote]

I hear you on testing the waters on a day like that Bluesun, solidarity with you, Brother! - We can do this!

I completely agree with the linear 'progression' such a terrible word. Dissension, is better... but lets not go there. I have seen that too... So hands off is a great plan! :)

Just answering Brother Boo, right now, and why I couldn't write my letter to Porn is at the end, and doesn't contain triggers, as far as I can tell.

Peace x

H.A.L.T - Hungry Angry Lonely Tired
Wherever water flows it creates ruts. Where is your mental water flowing?
PMO increases DeltaFosB in your brain, which in turn makes you crave the next PMO even more. DON'T DO IT! Your future self will thank you :)
PMO & excessive MO fux up your Prefrontal Cortex

fyg

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Hi Boo,

My first reaction was a strong one, as I struggle to be told things, sometimes, your statement of 'I'm sorry to say you are still indulging in PMO' did get a rise out of me, at first. But thank you for posting Boo, as I know you have my best interests at heart. Please read on...

To start, I agree, the previous posts of me mentioning P-subs (and my admission that I was looking at my favourite P actress the other day (this is almost definitely looking at P! Even if she was covered up in some of the shots) - I was definitely aware that I was playing games during this - infact, it felt like torturing myself. Maybe it was: image, dopamine hit, desire to PMO, squash-that-thought, image, dopamine hit, desire to PMO, squash-that-thought/desire, image... and so-on...

A few days previous... Branch mention that me and a couple other guys had fell into the porn-trap. He was responding to a mentioned that I MO'd to fantasy. I know, that in the past I have gone through periods where I have MO'd only to sensation, and this has proved beneficial. But, MO to fantasy I have struggled with throughout most reboots. Whereas the other day was an exception within this reboot, and I was considering resetting my PMO counter, where you have actually touched on a crux in my thought at the moment...

The other day, from the MO to fantasy that was followed later on in the day by P-subs (things that the vast majority of the world have seen - as this image 'broke the internet') which I actually looked at from a debate with friends from the previous evening, whereas I was saying this image was Porn. I looked primarily out of curiosity vis-a-vis the friendly debate and possibly (I really don't know) to see if I could look at it (I know people say you shouldn't test yourself, but nonetheless) that then descended into naked P-subs, looking at the same celeb, and then to what is no-doubt Porn, but through the P images I just mentioned... I know this is a no-no... But it happened that day.

The reason I didn't reset was that, at least for now, the PMO counter is a mark that I have stayed away from filmic porn, and didn't want to squash that by resetting my counter. I have only O'd to fantasy, not to image P or filmic P... And this, for me, is where I'm at.

And also, something that is also very much the crux of my thought just now and this is something I thought about earlier, I was going to put in the general thread... And that was/is ... Is Porn Fantasy the same as 'normal fantasy?'  Ie. For me, normal fantasy, is the same fantasy I've been adopting since I was 15 when I saw a very sexy girl walk by near my Aunt's house, I used to replay that in my mind to MO, as well as other girls and hot women from around my neighbourhood etc... we know the score/drill...

Your mention of William is very (insert word that means timely and coincidental!) Boo, as I was reading from probably the same dude on Your Brain Rebalanced the other day, where I posted only a few times, quite some time ago, (not on Williams thread). He said that the sacrifice he has to make for being exposed to HSIP is that he has to avoid a lot of that you just quoted in your post to me...
Quote
Porn is engaging any thought of unreal sex.
. So continuing, are he was saying, and are we saying, that because we have been exposed to HSIP, the fantasy (that I would say was normal before HSIP) can no longer be adopted as it deepens the neural pathways created by HSIP?...

... Continuing... At the time, I thought FUCKING HELL MAN, THAT IS HARDCORE!!! - And may I say, this is a level of control that, and I may be being a little sarcastic produced by my emotive reaction... but a level of control that a Daoist Monk would be proud of. I'm not sure whether I'm ready for it.

You know what... Maybe, it actually alludes to a life that involves, meditation (to control our mind) and to a serious undertaking of self-improvement, that I have been refuting for a LONG time! Meditation knocks at my door often, and I tell it to piss off!

So basically, I know that I should be staying away from fantasy with MO, hell, maybe even MO for now, full-stop, but, one step at a time ;). I know definitely, the other day (what we're talking about) was not cool, and could be worthy of a PMO counter reset. It is probably my MO counter that I am looking at now, as this has the biggest challenge rolled-up-into-it, at the moment...

  • If I MO to sensation, I'll still reset, but it will not be a failure in the grand sense, as I believe if I could do this, it would be healthy for me, and wouldn't hinder my progress - that said I haven't been able to sustain this in the past... I've lead a more balanced life than this before now through yoga etc...
    If I can get to 30 days NoMO, I will be so happy, as I know, I'm sure this is what people call the route to 'the hard 90, right?! no artificial stimulation...
    If I can get to 90 days NoMO, that would be FUCKING AMAZING!
[/list]

Also, I may add, that originally when I came on here, I had the 'since I looked at P' counter... but, I changed it to PMO instead after a while, as I needed an easier challenge... For now I will keep the PMO counter, but the MO is my what has my focus at the moment. The PMO & MO counter, in tandem are where I'm at. Having the 'since I looked at P' counter is a great counter... but when I post in a while of why I couldn't write my letter to giving up P... you/you guys may understand. I just couldn't bullshit myself, as 'never seeing' this woman again, kills me. She satisfies my almost, every predilection, at least physically. It is unlikely I will ever get a woman like that (because they hardly fucking exist).

Sorry for descending into that negative speak at the end Boo & Brothers.

I gotta leave it there for now, may be writing mistakes etc... :) I also d/l'd Gary Wilson's book in pdf yesday... Be good to go back over his stuff more thoroughly to help me... I hope this post had no triggers.

Peace, fyg
H.A.L.T - Hungry Angry Lonely Tired
Wherever water flows it creates ruts. Where is your mental water flowing?
PMO increases DeltaFosB in your brain, which in turn makes you crave the next PMO even more. DON'T DO IT! Your future self will thank you :)
PMO & excessive MO fux up your Prefrontal Cortex

Boo

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fyg,

I'm glad I didn't push your buttons too hard  ;)  I agree that MOing is a huge challenge to do without engaging in some sort of fantasy. I guess when I've spoken of fantasy on a few other posts around the forum I was wary more of fantasy as a gateway to actually viewing porn, ultimately leading to PMO. My counter is set up as is because I know I can't look at porn and it not lead to PMO, which is my ultimate goal.

I am trying to follow William's admonition of "what is porn" only because it gives ME the best chance at success in the most linear way. I just don't want to f**K around and make things harder on myself than they already are, and trust me, after 33 days, they're still difficult. I guess I feel that some of the guys here that I started communicating with early on are making things hard on themselves without maybe realizing it (the bargaining mind). I was a master at gaming the counters on my earlier resets. It proved to be futile in my efforts to get better and led to a total, extended relapse. I didn't give a s**t at that point. Now I do. This time it's for good even if I have "some" lapses.

One thing I will not do is make things harder on myself by willful acts of defiance against an obvious problem for me. I will master my psychology and not be a slave to it. I'm confident you'll figure out what's going to help you achieve whatever your long term goal is. It's all a learning process, as we all know. Peace.


fyg

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Hi Boo,

Nooo, just a little, that I thank you for ;) and to be honest there were thoughts that came out from it that I'd been holding onto for a while.

There is lots for me to think on... Like I'm not sure whether fantasy leads to more for me also? It's like MO to fantasy has no doubt, always come before PMO in the past for me, so maybe that is my answer... I'll reflect...

And if you don't mind me saying, keep going brother, congrats on 33 days... I hear you on the difficulty. I've been around between 60 and 90 days a few times... but not while thinking things through like this, which imho, makes it more difficult in some ways, but I hope, beneficial, as in learning about the process, as you mention. See, before, all I've done is abstain, and not really think about it. Right now, I'm trying to figure out if I should just abstain and not come on here at all, or less so, or continue as I am. At all, seems very unlikely. So this is a different approach for me, although I've loosely known the science for a few years now, I haven't analysed my own relationship with P. Which is what I think this site is about?! (never asked that question before - Bull In a China Shop that I am).

Anyways... I'm going on now. Thank you, man. I'll read your journal Boo, I know there's lots I can learn from you and others on here. Here's to the journey... Respect dude ;)
H.A.L.T - Hungry Angry Lonely Tired
Wherever water flows it creates ruts. Where is your mental water flowing?
PMO increases DeltaFosB in your brain, which in turn makes you crave the next PMO even more. DON'T DO IT! Your future self will thank you :)
PMO & excessive MO fux up your Prefrontal Cortex

fyg

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THIS MAY CONTAIN TRIGGERS, THERE IS NO MENTION OF NAMES OF STARS OR ANYTHING OVERTLY SEXUAL, BUT AS IT IS ABOUT WHY I CAN'T SAY GOODBYE TO PORN AT THE MOMENT (EVEN THOUGH I'M NOT INTENTIONALLY USING DURING THIS REBOOT, OF COURSE) - PLEASE SKIP THIS POST IF YOU NEED TO.

A R.N brother planted the thought for me to write a goodbye letter to Porn the other day...

I wrote at the start of the year, why I am quitting Porn before a 30 day reboot, that continued onto become a 90 day challenge, - I PMO'd on something like 86 days. I have just been reading that, and it is deep. Deeper than the letter I quickly wrote the other day actually. So, I guess this letter I'm talking about wasn't THAT considered. BUT, what is very true for me right now as I am feeling a desire to PMO (last two days have been tough) is that I was doing okay writing this letter TO Porn, until I got to the point where I thought about my favourite P star...

Fucking hell, I've never even wrote that before... Like I have a favourite. There have been a few... all of a similar bodily disposition... But, when I got to this part of the letter (and to reiterate from a previous post) ... I just couldn't bullshit myself, as the thought of 'never seeing' this woman again, kills me. She satisfies my almost, every predilection, at least physically. And, it is unlikely I will ever get a woman like that (because they hardly fucking exist). And if I had the opportunity with one like her, I would no doubt, lose my shit.

I know this is messed up... And most of the reason they look so good is because of makeup, lighting and retakes... I know my desire is devoid of soul and spiritual connection, and hell just relational connection to a human being... But this is where I'm at right now. It feels counter-productive to say it. But it's true, and probably made worse because I'm thinking of it.

I'm gonna carry on with this process because I want to be a physically and psychologically healthy male who can have real relationships with real women. I'm working lots out, like all of us.


Peace & Respect
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 12:52:43 PM by fyg »
H.A.L.T - Hungry Angry Lonely Tired
Wherever water flows it creates ruts. Where is your mental water flowing?
PMO increases DeltaFosB in your brain, which in turn makes you crave the next PMO even more. DON'T DO IT! Your future self will thank you :)
PMO & excessive MO fux up your Prefrontal Cortex

Philgood63

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Hey fyg,
What you write about this P actress that you're not ready to "lose" is very honnest, and I'm sure that's huge step for you to admit this. In my opinion, it's far better admit this fact than looking away and denying it, that's the way to progress and beat our fears. I'm sure we are many guys here feeling the same. Honnestly I'm not able to remember if I had one precise P star who made me feel like this, but for sure I once had this fuzzy feeling that it was terrible to know that I'd never see them again... At first I could barely believe it, I think I was secretly praying to give up soon and get back to P ! Yeah, it's been difficult, but I think that this feeling got smaller and smaller since the day I thrown up everything linked with P in my house. What I aim to say is, well, do not worry if you're still not able to write this letter, I think it was important first to look at this fact eye-to-eye and to acknowledge it, then writing about it honnestly, what you did. Now let's take some time to let new feelings grow and probably you'll be able to finish writing this letter one day.
Take care.
Neither lover nor wanker !

fyg

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Thanks Philgood.
H.A.L.T - Hungry Angry Lonely Tired
Wherever water flows it creates ruts. Where is your mental water flowing?
PMO increases DeltaFosB in your brain, which in turn makes you crave the next PMO even more. DON'T DO IT! Your future self will thank you :)
PMO & excessive MO fux up your Prefrontal Cortex

Branch

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fyg,

27 days without pmo is a nice run--keep it going!

I see mo a few days ago.  Maybe not what you want, since you have a counter for it, but being sble to mo without p is a good sign for a porn addict, based on all the info out there as far as I know, so maybe there's a silver lining in there for you.

We can do this.  We must and we will.


fyg

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    Hi Branch,

    Thanks. And there is definitely something with MO, and yep, so I need a counter for it. I've not long woken up, so my brain is slooow too :) Laaazy post :)

    We can do this! Yes, man.

    *****************

    And, as a quick aside, and I have been holding on to things that come up (chronic procrastinator that I am), I've wondered if I am addicted to P, in the strictest sense, whatever that means, strictest sense.

    Reading YBOP (pdf) yesday...

    • It says watch a fave P to see if you get an E (erection) - I'm not doing that, I'll get one
    • Try to M and see if you get a strong E. (i) sometimes without fantasy it takes quite a bit to get a rise (ii) If I'm horny, it does,'t take much at all (iii) sometimes I get nighttime and morning wood (can't remember last morning wood though) (iv) around 7-10 days I often think of women I know on hangovers and get ridiculous E's that are intense (v) edit: In this past E's to sensation have been very easy to get further into reboot or when I am horny (vi) edit: There have been times with 'noodle dick' that I haven't been horny at all, and trying to M has been tougher... but with continued 'effort' it has reacted, maybe not 100%, but still... This reboot, it isn't that difficult to get an E though
    • In the past I've had delayed ejaculation, but in last time I had sex (couplish months ago), this wasn't necessarily a problem, but I still took a viagra just before first O, could have easily O'd before taking it though, if that makes sense
    • Taking viagra has always given me E's, it's never failed. Which I'm sure Gabe Deem said in one of his video's that Viagra doesn't help if you have PIED
    • I have failed to have E's or E's faltered often, in the past, with women I am attracted to during sex. This happened with a woman I was with last summer. Though it could have been an issue with the pressure on my dick (sorry for detail). Though, that said, in theory, if I was around 7-10 days and horny as hell, I would have only to touch it hardly, thus it maybe as I'm 'trained' with a deathgrip! That said, the woman from two months ago I mentioned, wasn't the tightest fit in the world (sorry for detail again) and it was absolutely fine and enjoyable with no problem to get close to O
    • I remember one ex-lover with whom I had sex with a few times, and didn't really have a problem getting an E, but when it came to oral, I would struggle to maintain an E. Then with an ex-gf, there was no problem with her (oral- and years ago now)
  • It's very possible MO'ing and MO'ing to fantasy and PMO's have given me ED with a woman I've slept with just a few days later, or has stopped me pursuing them... But I can't prove it.
So This has been on my mind whether I'm Anxiety Induced ED or PIED. The above list is not exhaustive.

I do know that P has stopped me pursuing women, and could be one of the reasons I used to look at my ex-gf, who looked amazing when we were getting down to it, and in states of semi-clothedness (better word needed). Has probably compounded my social and normal anxiety and added/caused depression.

Sorry I didn't share this earlier with you guys. And as yesday with Boo, Branch's comment has allowed me to comment on something that I had been thinking about. Not sure how long I've been thinking about it, actually.

Peace, Bro's.

PS. Apologies for any unintentional trigger talk
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 05:31:53 AM by fyg »
H.A.L.T - Hungry Angry Lonely Tired
Wherever water flows it creates ruts. Where is your mental water flowing?
PMO increases DeltaFosB in your brain, which in turn makes you crave the next PMO even more. DON'T DO IT! Your future self will thank you :)
PMO & excessive MO fux up your Prefrontal Cortex

fyg

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Things have been a bit frustrating and weird these last couple of days. THE FOLLOWING IS PRETTY GROSS...

I've been getting rid of old clothing and towels, bagging them and pissing on them before I throw them out. Bodily functions are just something I'm thinking about all the time. Going for a piss, a crap, excreting mucous from my body etc... Almost as if my body is tired of holding everything in, of not being myself, of not being in some sort of sexual relationship.

I just looked up the word 'excrete' and is; "to pass (waste matter) from the body or from an organ in the body" - now I know semen isn't 'waste matter', and in the past, being put into tissues and treating M, as well, I don't want to put M on a ridiculous pedestal that is sacred... but treating M, or more specifically, O as just a thing, is interesting. Sort of the dichotomy or splitting of the animal and the sacred side of things, maybe!!!!

Nonetheless, today, I'm full of urge, lust and animal feelings. Probably, again, as I'm thinking about this. Fuck man... I'm going out, then to the gym or something later. Meditate!

You know what, I'm being dramatic. Gonna deal with this shit, with a cold shower. Been doing that for last few days.

Peace and out!

« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 06:27:08 AM by fyg »
H.A.L.T - Hungry Angry Lonely Tired
Wherever water flows it creates ruts. Where is your mental water flowing?
PMO increases DeltaFosB in your brain, which in turn makes you crave the next PMO even more. DON'T DO IT! Your future self will thank you :)
PMO & excessive MO fux up your Prefrontal Cortex