Author Topic: Emotional affairs vs. "appropriate" friendships with the opposite sex  (Read 29585 times)

STR

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I’m not sure where to post this, but I thought the “Women” section might be an appropriate place. SO Reboot Partner has been discussing her husband's (potential) emotional affair with his former assistant, and my post is on a related topic.

The last time I looked at porn was February 23, 2013. Since that time, I have done a lot of work on myself, trying to stop to all of my sexually compulsive behavior and to become a more committed husband to my wife. I think it’s fair to say that I have made tremendous progress in a lot of areas. I no longer look at porn, I no longer ogle women on the street, I no longer fantasize about women, and I no longer masturbate. Those are all things that I used to do on a daily basis, and for most of my life, I would not have believed it was possible for me to stop doing those things, at least not until I was 80 years old or something.

I am very glad that I never “cheated on” my wife in the sense of touching any other woman, but I have come to realize that I have cheated on her in a sense by seeking something from other women that I should have only sought from her. In particular, there is a young woman (YW, for short) that has lived in the same building that my wife and I lived in for the past 5 years. I’ve spoken about YW a few times in my journal at YBR, but long story short, YW and I hit it off from the very beginning. I am very introverted and almost never have conversations with people, unless those people are nerdy and academic and can talk about nerdy/academic subjects. YW is very nerdy and academic, and she is one of those few people that I can easily have long conversations with despite my introversion and social awkwardness. Since we live in the same building, we run into each naturally from time to time, and we always end up chatting for a while.

At some point in time (3 years ago or so), we started meeting each other for lunch so that we could chat for longer sessions (e.g. 1.5 to 2 hours). I didn't tell my wife about these lunches, so they were essentially a secret that I kept from her. In addition to being drawn to YW's academic brain, I was/am drawn to her caring and nurturing heart. She’s a very empathetic person who is good at providing emotional support, and I have always been drawn to those types of people (especially when they are female. My mother has never provided me with emotional support, so maybe that has something to do with it). Over time, our topics of conversation broadened to include sharing information of a more personal and emotional nature, and I found myself sensing a strong emotional bond to her. (I later realized that I was essentially having an “emotional affair” with her). Neither of us made any “moves” on each other, and I never tried to touch her or anything along those lines.

However, I was very physically attracted to her. Up until a year ago, I used to fantasize about YW all the time, during masturbation and during sex with my wife. There was a long stretch of time over which I thought about YW during pretty much every orgasm that I had, always saving in my mind a really arousing fantasy about her for just the right moment. I even reached a point where I had a difficult time getting erect without thinking about her.

In addition to fantasizing about her sexually, I also used to daydream about what it would be like to be married to her. I didn’t want to trade my wife for YW, but I did think it would be nice to live in two parallel universes, where I could be married to my current wife in one and to YW in the other.

It took a lot of difficult and painful work on myself to reach the point where I am today, where I no longer fantasize about YW in any way. I initiated a recent conversation with her about defining our relationship. I don’t think either of us considers the other to be a “friend”, in the sense that we don’t really hang out together or see each other that often, particularly when you consider that we live so close to each other. She said that she thinks of our relationship as a “mentoring one”, in the sense that I am able to share a lot of my own experience in planning out my career and such, which is something that she has been doing since I met her.

I don’t have any siblings, and I think I’ve always subconsciously sought to have 1-2 really close friends in my life that could play a surrogate-sibling role. In the case of YW, I have come to think of her as a kind of “younger sister that I never had”, and I told her once that I would love to have her for a sister. The interactions that we have with each other would be perfectly appropriate for actual siblings, but that’s the problem: she isn’t my sister, and I am not her brother. I am a married man, and she is a single female.

So I guess that brings me to the point of my post, which is to say that in addition to not looking at porn, not ogling, not fantasizing, and not masturbating, I have also come to realize that one of my goals in recovery is to be able to have healthy/appropriate friendships with females without any kind of physical attraction or emotional attachment getting in the way. (If that’s even possible…?).

My wife and I have spoken about putting boundaries on my interactions with YW that my wife is comfortable with, and I stick to those boundaries. I tell my wife ahead of time if YW and I are planning to get together, and I don't really initiate any of these get-togethers anymore. When we do meet (which isn't very often), it's usually because YW suggests a meeting, which I think she does out of obligation rather than a burning desire to spend time with me. But I still find myself thinking about YW way too much, and find myself wanting to spend more time with her than we currently spend. (We have been meeting for lunch once every 1-3 months, which isn’t very often in my mind).

I have thought about ending all interaction with YW as a response to my thinking about her too much. I know that some people who are trying to overcome a PMO addiction have placed filters on their computers to make it difficult for them to access porn, and while I don’t have a problem with that, I think our goal should ultimately be to reach a point where we can sit at a computer by ourselves with a fully-functional Internet connection without choosing to look at porn. By the same token, my goal is not to eliminate people like YW from my life altogether: my goal is to be able to be around women like her without her dominating my thoughts when we’re apart.

I'm not totally on board with the idea of spending more time with YW than I currently do, but I also find that the small amount of time we currently spend together leaves me feeling unsatisfied. In some ways, she's a bit like porn in that respect: getting a little bit of her time makes me want more, and I never get enough to satisfy me.

I’m not sure I have a question for the group here, but I thought I would just throw this out there to see if any of you fine ladies and/or gentlemen would like to weigh in…

Rainiegirl

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I believe it is possible to have appropriate friendships with the opposite sex. I have had many close friendships with men. On the other hand, I have never fantasized about them sexualy. I think that if your in a relationship and you cross that line, you should probaly end the friendship. Please don't take offence to this but I think you need to see your affair with a different perspective. The fact is that you have used this YW for sexual pleasure and you have used your wife's body to do so. It is offensive to both women. You can't take that back and say that you now feel a sibling type bond to the girl. If you had a physical afair with the YW would you still feel that it is OK to meet up with her on a regular basis? In my mind a emotional affair is worse than a physical one.

Bibbity

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I feel that this particular relationship has gone too far.  You've already formed the emotional bond and fantasized about her during sex.  The barrier that should have encircled you and your wife's bond has been breached and there is no going back.  My personal opinion (which you can take or leave!) is to end the meetings with this person. I view her as a 'threat' that needs to be eliminated and you should see it that way too.  Your sexual and emotional energy should be directed at your wife.  I am sure this woman knows the effect she is having on you and although I do not know her I think that is pretty cruel to do to your wife.  I would never hang out with a married man consistently unless I was expecting it to go further.  It's just not the proper 'rules of engagement'.

Can you be friends with other women?  I think so but recognize the signs of emotional attachment before they happen so you don't go further in your heart and mind.  My husband doesn't really have female friends that aren't also friends with me and he doesn't hang out with them in private. 

Also can I say how great it is that you've come so far in your journey.  It is simply amazing what you've accomplished and it sounds like you want to do right by your wife!
In order to rise from its own ashes, a Phoenix first must burn.”
― Octavia E. Butler

SO Reboot Partner

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STR, I'm very grateful you posted this and was gracious enough to tell your story. Thank you.

You obviously have worked through your own moral compass and made your own decision. I understand how it feels on the spouse end of the story, but it is very good to hear that the hard work of really hammering out the why for one's own self is possible. It is a feat that leaves me in awe.

One of the common elements of those that really conquer their PMO issue (you, lte and others) is this ability to listen to others then build a ethos rather than simply adhere to a list of do's and don'ts. Of course testing that is going to bring discomfort, since when we go against our own value system we usually don't like it much, but the end results are right there.

STR

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I believe it is possible to have appropriate friendships with the opposite sex. I have had many close friendships with men. On the other hand, I have never fantasized about them sexualy. I think that if your in a relationship and you cross that line, you should probaly end the friendship. Please don't take offence to this but I think you need to see your affair with a different perspective. The fact is that you have used this YW for sexual pleasure and you have used your wife's body to do so. It is offensive to both women. You can't take that back and say that you now feel a sibling type bond to the girl. If you had a physical afair with the YW would you still feel that it is OK to meet up with her on a regular basis? In my mind a emotional affair is worse than a physical one.

Hi Rainiegirl - Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I used to think that an emotional affair was "not as bad" as a physical affair, but I have learned firsthand the dangers of emotional affairs and I feel like I now have the wherewithal to avoid going down that road again. I agree with what you say, and on some level, I have already taken steps in the direction of ending the relationship with YW. Some number of months ago I stopped contacting her at all, other than for building-related minutiae. I also stopped "hanging around the building in hopes of running into her", which I used to do a lot. There has always been a good possibility that YW would move out of town, and as recently as a few weeks ago, I was 95% certain that she would be moving this summer. But things changed unexpectedly and it looks like she'll probably be staying for a while.

STR

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I feel that this particular relationship has gone too far.  You've already formed the emotional bond and fantasized about her during sex.  The barrier that should have encircled you and your wife's bond has been breached and there is no going back.  My personal opinion (which you can take or leave!) is to end the meetings with this person. I view her as a 'threat' that needs to be eliminated and you should see it that way too.  Your sexual and emotional energy should be directed at your wife.  I am sure this woman knows the effect she is having on you and although I do not know her I think that is pretty cruel to do to your wife.  I would never hang out with a married man consistently unless I was expecting it to go further.  It's just not the proper 'rules of engagement'.

Hi Bibbity - Thanks for posting this. I agree 100% that my relationship with YW went too far, at least in my own mind. Our activities weren't really all that inappropriate, but I certainly thought about her in ways that were completely wrong. As you say, I realized some time ago that YW was a "threat" to my marriage, not so much because of anything she was doing, but because of how I was thinking about her and prioritizing her in my mind. I don't want to defend her, but I do want to say that I take full responsibility for the relationship going in an inappropriate direction. She did not know (and does not know to this day) that our early meetings were conducted without my wife's knowledge, and I am certain that she would not have met with me if she had known that I had not gotten my wife's approval first. She told me recently that one of the reasons she doesn't contact me much is that she "doesn't know how my wife feels about it, and she doesn't want to impose". I can also say that I wouldn't have been interested in spending time with her at all if I had thought she was the kind of person who would interfere in a marriage or who would meet with a married man in secret. I now realize that I did her a disservice by involving her in meetings that she didn't realize were taking place without my wife's knowledge. I know that others might disagree, but YW is not the type of person who would want to do anything inappropriate with a married man, and she is very sensitive to that issue. She and my wife are on friendly terms, and she is somewhat of a "family friend". So it wasn't that big of a leap for YW and I to have lunch with each other 4-6 times a year.

Quote
Can you be friends with other women?  I think so but recognize the signs of emotional attachment before they happen so you don't go further in your heart and mind.  My husband doesn't really have female friends that aren't also friends with me and he doesn't hang out with them in private.

Yeah, this is what I have learned through my experience with YW. I feel pretty confident now that I will never have this type of experience again, because I now know how to avoid it. As has been mentioned, though, my relationship with YW is problematic because the damage was already done, and I can't go back and change it, no matter how "innocent" our interactions might be now.

STR

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One of the common elements of those that really conquer their PMO issue (you, lte and others) is this ability to listen to others then build a ethos rather than simply adhere to a list of do's and don'ts. Of course testing that is going to bring discomfort, since when we go against our own value system we usually don't like it much, but the end results are right there.

Hi SORP - I think you are correct that breaking a PMO addiction requires a personal commitment beyond just a set of rules. In my case, I always had the personal commitment, in the sense that I always felt like PMO was wrong and that it was not good for me. It wasn't until (1) I realized that my ED was caused by P, and (2) I found the YBR forum, that I was finally able to make the changes I had always wanted to make.

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Inappropriate vs Appropriate

Back in grad school, husband and I attended a company backyard bbq. Husband had a summer internship with them. The food was delicious. That is the nicest thing I can say about it.

At one point in the festivities, the assistant of the lead partner was jumping on a trampoline while her boss sat in an Adirondack chair, smoking a Freudian cigar, watching and sipping beer. I couldn't believe what I was seeing, it was so blatantly inappropriate. I couldn't even speak, until big boss partner started goading me to jump on the trampoline.

There is politely saying "no" and then there is saying no with the fury and judgment of flaming daggers shooting out of the eyes. I don't remember deliberating over the choice of B.

I killed the entertainment section of the party. I also drew some consternation from big boss's wife. Clearly there were standards of appropriateness and urban bbq etiquette my country bumpkin mind was unprepared for. Back home we usually just played horseshoes, NHPA rules.

Anyway, I was pretty well made into a party pooper, because I was. They all knew the trampoline (appropriate name for the object in this case) game was inappropriate for an office party and really didn't care.

So in the case of Appropriate vs Inappropriate friendships, how does that get defined in a marriage? There are a bunch of emotional affair "warning signs" lists out there that include:

You Think or Say, "We're Just Friends."
You Daydream About Him or Her
You Look Forward to Seeing Him or Her
You Want to Tell Them News First
You Share Intimate Emotions
You Share Intimate Problems
You Believe He or She Understands You More Than Your Spouse
You Keep Secrets and Cover Up
You Give Gifts
You Spend More Time Alone

What would you add or delete from this list, besides jumping on a trampoline while your boss watches?


« Last Edit: June 01, 2014, 01:09:13 AM by SO Reboot Partner »

STR

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Some additions to the list:

1. You spend time thinking about "What if I was with him/her instead of my current partner"
2. You have conversations with him/her inside your head
3. You get jealous when s/he spends time with someone other than you
4. Your mood is closely tied to whether or not you have heard recently from him/her

SO Reboot Partner

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3. You get jealous when s/he spends time with someone other than you

There are two people from the old office husband "doesn't like" because they are "mean spirited". I've met and interacted with both and they actually seem helpful, funny and pretty nice.

In conversations with husband I found out that one of these people would horn in on conversations between Husband and his assistant - especially when husband made trips to the old office after we set up the new. Husband would tell me about how this other person was "checking" on them and how by planning his visits during the troublemaker's lunch hour he could avoid this infringement of space. Of course all these conversations were of a professional nature. The former assistant has been moved to a more public area in the old office, so his sneaky plans to visit have been kiboshed. As much as I dislike the old office, I have to appreciate them for doing that.

The second person had complained about some of the freedom afforded husband's assistant in the old office setting. This was a major point of contention.

Bibbity

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Re: Emotional affairs vs. "appropriate" friendships with the opposite sex
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2014, 11:03:29 AM »
I spent some time thinking of this last night.  I'll give you a bit of a personal story.  There is a friend that we hang out with.  He is married with kids, as am I, but I am attracted to him.  He is very much like me and we always have a great time together.  He is also very good looking.  He is a stay at home dad so we have had opportunities to hang out together alone without our spouses but I have refused.  I simply made up some excuse or another.  It just doesn't sit right with me.  You know that feeling that this isn't "right"?  That's the warning sign.  You can choose to ignore it or you can heed it's warning that this isn't going to go well.  We still have fun when we get together as couples but that's it!
In order to rise from its own ashes, a Phoenix first must burn.”
― Octavia E. Butler

HelpUsHelpUS

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Re: Emotional affairs vs. "appropriate" friendships with the opposite sex
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2014, 01:42:43 PM »
This is an interesting topic to me, because now I'm wondering if there is some sort of correlation between porn addiction (or really any addiction) and not knowing one's boundaries, or how much of something, anything, is "too much."

My bf has a very close female friend whom he's known since high school, and they attended the same college. He had a huge crush on her, and to some degree, will always have somewhat of a crush on her. She was his first love of sorts, though it was, for the most part, unrequited. I know they have some kind of history, but they have remained friends through the years. It's a bit complicated though. I think, despite not wanting to be with him, she enjoyed the admiration she received from him and liked being up on a pedestal in his eyes. And he enjoyed being her friend she shared everything with, and could rely on, especially when she was having relationship problems with the guy she chose over him. His mother once told me he got therapy because of his obsession with her. This was years ago, but I have felt, multiple times, that this girl has encroached on our relationship. Maybe not intentionally, but maybe a little bit. And he swears up and down he doesn't see her that way anymore, but it almost sounds like what you did STR with turning this object of your desire into a sibling type of figure to justify the closeness between you. She is engaged now, so I've seen less inappropriate interaction, which is probably also because I spoke up about it. I've had multiple conversations with him about how I feel their relationship, at times, makes me feel uncomfortable because they say inappropriate things to each other or do inappropriate things like flirting in small ways. And he didn't see how these things were inappropriate, like he legitimately didn't understand the concept of boundaries when you're in a relationship. I think her idea of boundaries were a bit skewed also. So I asserted myself and drew some lines.

ANYHOO, my point is this: I can see how not understanding one's limits can lead to obsessions of any sort. They say anything in excess is bad. Watching porn once in a blue moon to spice things up? Not a big deal(if no one has a previous addiction to it). Can't get off without it? Unhealthy. Your friend crossed your mind during sex? If say a lot of people are utility of that. Can't get off without thinking of her? You've consciously made a habit of it? Unhealthy. I have a lot of friends who are males, some married, and I would definitely hang out with them alone, if their wife was busy or something like that. But when it comes to relationships with people of the opposite sex, if you're in a relationship, or especially married, you are part of a unit.

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Re: Emotional affairs vs. "appropriate" friendships with the opposite sex
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2014, 07:20:44 PM »
This is an interesting topic to me, because now I'm wondering if there is some sort of correlation between porn addiction (or really any addiction) and not knowing one's boundaries, or how much of something, anything, is "too much."

This I think has some truth in it.

After 90+ days of rebooting, my husband chose to leave his old office and his emotional partner. It was surprising and not without some major relapses on both addictions. He's tried to sneak in the PMO and re-establish access to his old assistant, especially when faced with stressful situations.

I don't think he would have started his new business or abandoned the emotional affair if it weren't for the reboot and at least beginning to break some of the old habits.

I know I've posted a lot of horrors when it comes to the emotional affair and my marriage but I feel like we are on the last major hill of a marathon. Re-establishing boundaries, developing an ethic that is closer to the one the man I married had is the goal. He really was not like this, he can be well again. He is not beyond redemption.

Bibbity

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Re: Emotional affairs vs. "appropriate" friendships with the opposite sex
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2014, 12:36:30 PM »
HelpUs I feel that emotional affairs or unrequited love has more to do with lack of self esteem (notoriously associated with lack of boundaries!) which of course is usually the cause of addictions.  The addictions serve as a distraction from those crappy feelings or any crappy feeling.  If you really think about your boyfriends situation you can see how unfortunate it really is.  He continues to love/like/pursue someone who is not interested in him.  He has likely experienced abandonment from an attachment figure.  It sounds like the therapy has helped him and he's now moving on with your help and your high self esteem which doesn't tolerate this behavior.  She also suffers from self esteem issues which is why she "gets off" on stringing him along.  Been there done that :)

In order to rise from its own ashes, a Phoenix first must burn.”
― Octavia E. Butler

STR

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Re: Emotional affairs vs. "appropriate" friendships with the opposite sex
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2014, 05:59:36 PM »
HelpUs I feel that emotional affairs or unrequited love has more to do with lack of self esteem (notoriously associated with lack of boundaries!) which of course is usually the cause of addictions.  The addictions serve as a distraction from those crappy feelings or any crappy feeling.

This is definitely the case for me. Crappy feelings about myself were also a major contributor to my PMO addiction, and one of the best things that I have done to help break my addiction has been to nip negative thoughts about myself in the bud and to immediately replace them with thoughts/music/words that are uplifting and positive. I don't allow myself to wallow in self-pity any more, and that has really helped me to stay away from PMO and related negative behaviors.

STR

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Re: Emotional affairs vs. "appropriate" friendships with the opposite sex
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2014, 06:13:35 PM »
Just found this on a website about how to end an emotional affair:

Emotional affairs occur when a deep emotional attachment or bond is created with someone outside of your relationship and it consumes your every waking thought and action. This type of affair involves sharing deep secrets and wishes, innermost thoughts and a transference of the intimate connection you'd normally have with your partner or spouse to someone else instead. It can begin innocently enough, at a time when you feel things aren't quite right with your current love and you decide to pull someone else in to play a role you feel is lacking in your partner. Yet, while it may have felt innocent enough to begin with, an emotional affair is just as difficult, if not more so, to get out of than a sexual affair.

This is pretty much exactly what I have experienced with YW. It sounds silly and naive now, but I really did think that having an emotional (but not physical) connection with another woman wasn't harming my marriage, the same way I used to think that PMO wasn't harming my marriage either.

My interest in YW ramped up a few years ago during a time when I was realizing some of the ways that my wife and I are not 100% compatible. Our personality types are such that I like to discuss theories and abstract concepts and so on, whereas my wife likes to talk about people and experiences from her day. Neither of us is naturally interested in or able to contribute much to the other's preferred topic of conversation, and I used to think this meant that my wife and I were not a good match for each other.

Enter YW, who likes to talk about the same types of things that I do, and who is a more natural conversation partner for me. Meeting someone like her that could engage with me on an intellectual level was very exciting, and the more I thought about it, the more I fantasized about what it would be like to be married to her instead of to my wife. I've done a lot of work on myself and my marital commitment since then, and I no longer believe that my wife was the wrong person to marry or that I would be happier with someone else.

But as the quote suggests, I am finding it difficult to overcome my emotional attachment to YW. I should say that my emotional affair with her has always been one-sided, in the sense that she has never given any indication that she is emotionally attached to me. I've always put more effort into our acquaintance than she has, and I'm pretty sure that we would have no interaction at all (other than random bump-ins) if I had not been contacting her periodically over the past 5 years.

Rainiegirl

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Re: Emotional affairs vs. "appropriate" friendships with the opposite sex
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2014, 10:03:24 PM »
Have you read any of the articles on pair bonding?  Here is one
http://yourbrainonporn.com/guys-where-do-you-fall-on-the-monogamy-spectrum
(Scroll down to point 1)

5 years is a long time and you have most likely created a pair bond towards YW. I'm shure you can see how that can damage your relationship with your wife. It also explains why you have a hard time letting her go. She is very much like an addiction for you. I think you have to let her go if you want to break free of all this. It's like she's the last piece of the puzzle.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2014, 01:32:46 AM by Rainiegirl »

Viper

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Re: Emotional affairs vs. "appropriate" friendships with the opposite sex
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2014, 01:03:26 AM »
I spent some time thinking of this last night.  I'll give you a bit of a personal story.  There is a friend that we hang out with.  He is married with kids, as am I, but I am attracted to him.  He is very much like me and we always have a great time together.  He is also very good looking.  He is a stay at home dad so we have had opportunities to hang out together alone without our spouses but I have refused.  I simply made up some excuse or another.  It just doesn't sit right with me.  You know that feeling that this isn't "right"?  That's the warning sign.  You can choose to ignore it or you can heed it's warning that this isn't going to go well.  We still have fun when we get together as couples but that's it!

You know, I don't know why this is rocket science. This is exactly the right way to go if you're in a committed relationship like marriage.

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Re: Emotional affairs vs. "appropriate" friendships with the opposite sex
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2014, 01:10:55 AM »
Doesn't matter if you haven't physically touched her or not.
If you feel the need to hide the fact that you're spending all this time with another woman,
then you already have your answer.

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Re: Emotional affairs vs. "appropriate" friendships with the opposite sex
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2014, 04:59:01 AM »
Doesn't matter if you haven't physically touched her or not.
If you feel the need to hide the fact that you're spending all this time with another woman,
then you already have your answer.

exactly

would you hide your time spent with a male friend?

I went to lunch with a friend,I was only in town for a few nights and I posted on FB that I was seeing her at *place* for foodD
During our time together, she asked me to take off the post, she didnt wan her SO to see it.
I didnt care about her mentally, just her body. so is that the same thing or different
LOL of course its the same thing, but it wasnt me cheating, it was her.
So why  are you cheating on your wife? if she had a YM to hang out with ,as you have your YW, would you be ok with that?

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Re: Emotional affairs vs. "appropriate" friendships with the opposite sex
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2014, 05:48:25 AM »
Doesn't matter if you haven't physically touched her or not.
If you feel the need to hide the fact that you're spending all this time with another woman,
then you already have your answer.

exactly

would you hide your time spent with a male friend?

I went to lunch with a friend,I was only in town for a few nights and I posted on FB that I was seeing her at *place* for foodD
During our time together, she asked me to take off the post, she didnt wan her SO to see it.
I didnt care about her mentally, just her body. so is that the same thing or different
LOL of course its the same thing, but it wasnt me cheating, it was her.
So why  are you cheating on your wife? if she had a YM to hang out with ,as you have your YW, would you be ok with that?

It is interesting that your story assigns cheating to the lady, with no such label for yourself when your motivations were clearly for "just her body".

It is funny when one considers that old-school, Old Testament Adultery is defined by the woman's marital state, not a man's. New Testament adultery is more about intent, the mind and affairs of the heart: “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust after her has committed adultery already with her in his heart.” Matthew 5:27-28

This isn't a Bible lesson and I hardly qualify as a Sunday School marm. But the evolution of the definition of cheating is right there in Scripture and in the way we try to walk around it to paint ourselves in the best light possible.

If you knew she was in a committed relationship before making the dinner date, motivated by "just her body" you are a cheater-cheater pumpkin eater. It is a huge ego boost to think that this woman risked her relationship to be with you, but in the end it is a ego deflation because she obviously wasn't very proud of it.

EDIT: I read some of your posts and see a lot of body data - BMI, weight, et al. Do you think your medical school training and accident have had an impact on how you see others and yourself?
« Last Edit: June 03, 2014, 06:06:13 AM by SO Reboot Partner »

bzarfas

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Re: Emotional affairs vs. "appropriate" friendships with the opposite sex
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2014, 07:47:39 AM »
Removed. Personal attacks and arguments (as opposed to respectful discussion) regarding matters of faith is absolutely not allowed at RN.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2014, 08:31:10 PM by lte »

Bibbity

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Re: Emotional affairs vs. "appropriate" friendships with the opposite sex
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2014, 08:03:30 AM »
Quote
but manly, I like facts.  I like to know why and how things happen, so I can duplicate the results or avoid the results.

Science is never exact.  Science is knowing something until other science shows up saying otherwise. How many times has science contradicted itself?  Believing in God is no more naïve than believing in science.  All of us on this journey believe in something different and we should respect that.
In order to rise from its own ashes, a Phoenix first must burn.”
― Octavia E. Butler

bzarfas

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Re: Emotional affairs vs. "appropriate" friendships with the opposite sex
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2014, 08:57:19 AM »
Removed. Personal attacks and arguments (as opposed to respectful discussion) regarding matters of faith is absolutely not allowed at RN.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2014, 08:31:30 PM by lte »

SO Reboot Partner

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Re: Emotional affairs vs. "appropriate" friendships with the opposite sex
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2014, 09:09:50 AM »
Quote
but manly, I like facts.  I like to know why and how things happen, so I can duplicate the results or avoid the results.

Science is never exact.  Science is knowing something until other science shows up saying otherwise. How many times has science contradicted itself?  Believing in God is no more naïve than believing in science. All of us on this journey believe in something different and we should respect that.
universals are a rare event.
LOL yeah, that ludricous.  Look how much science has gotten you, and what has believing  in god gotten you, besides death and wars/etc. LOL

Science is often exact.  Look how much is based on science.

I agree though SOME science is based on hypothesis, where we cannot prove how something is, but all the evidence points in one direction that is held as a fact until something else comes along.
which explains why I am not an atheist, merely an agnostic
Beliving in God is similar in believing in the awesome powers of a milk jug
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk6ILZAaAMI

Faith or fact, there was no logical reason to throw passages out of the bible at me, or I could just toss around other biblical content and say you should follow that(1 Corinthians 14:34 ) which makes absolutely no sense in our discussion..This is why I mentioned in my last post to stop talkig about faith/things we imagine and just stick to what we can prove.

It was an illustration of how the definition of adultery changed even in the Bible, nothing more.