Author Topic: Age 30 - Wolf and her husband Bear - in need of advice  (Read 2834 times)

Wolf

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Age 30 - Wolf and her husband Bear - in need of advice
« on: August 21, 2015, 08:45:57 PM »
Hi everyone,

I discovered your community a week ago while researching answers regarding sexual issues that my husband and I are dealing with for a while now. I'm glad I found you and hope you'll help us, especially because my husband's case seems to be quite similar, but also quite different. My theory : my husband started a reboot a long time ago, without deciding or knowing the process of it, and went trough several flat-lines making him relapse, again and again.

I am french so I apologize in advance for any mistake I could make in writing our story.

My husband, let's call him Bear, discovered porn as a child, on a magazine cover in a store where the tenant obviously didn't care about letting this kind of pictures in children's eye-sight. He was about 6 years old and was shocked. He asked his mother about it and she explained him that some men were feeling sad and lonely, and they were tricked in thinking that watching naked ladies would make them feel better. She stayed calm and did not guilt him, saying theses pictures are for adults only and he was victim of this careless store tenant.  Anyway, Bear grew up in a family where his mother was open and frank about things, but mostly innocent-minded, and his father had major issues with love demonstrations, and any intimacy topics : sex, period, masturbation... switching channels, eye-rolling and sighing when a sex scene appeared on a movie watched together... making Bear feel guilty and shy about the same topics.

Bear was a horny pre-teen, and a horny teen : always thinking about sex, he started to masturbate around 9 years old on innocent things, like definitions in the dictionary, lingeries advertising, and he was fantasizing a lot on his friend's parent's erotic comics collection. He had some close friends (who are still close friends 20 years later) whom with he was talking about sex, fantasizing, and even masturbating some times (because they used the same erotic media at the same time).

Around 12, Bear got access to internet and masturbated daily at least for his entire teenage years.

I met him in highschool when we were 15 years old, and then he fell madly in love with me, but I didn't. He was a good friend, but talked a lot about porn and video games, and that was not really attractive to me. I put him in the friendzone as they say... Anyway, Bear and I were close and stayed friends, I met his longtime friends and we hanged out together for a while, then we were apart for a few years, and then we reunited and both fell in love. At that time we were 19 years old, a little more mature... and we started to date.

I knew he was masturbating a lot, because he used to talk to me about that, since I told him in highschool that girls were masturbating too, he always felt really free about it, saying that I was a huge part of his masturbatory fantasies... along with porn fantasies, most of it fellatios and facials. I asked him to stop, since we had a open-minded relationship, and a fulfilling sexuality.  Sex was amazing, he had no issues at all, and you know, the first years are all about having sex in every possible way. Anyway, Bear was always feeling guilty about it, especially if it was "crazy", in fact, in daylight and above the comforter. It took me a while to make him feel comfortable about enjoying a lot of sex, and for me this was just the result of his not-talking-about-it-education.

I didn't know that he was still PMO regularly, he couldnt stop, and felt guilty about it too.

With time I developped strong feminist opinions and was regularly condamning sex trade in every form (especially in a patriarcal setting like pornography and prostitution), and I convinced him that something wasn't right. It was a way for me to make him understand that his way of love-making was an enigma for me : either ultra tender, slow and loving-almost-boring love-making, or hard slap ass pull hair I wanna jeez on your face sex ; nothing in between. He had almost two personalities.

I think that's when he decided to watch less porn, and since he was working his ass off for his  studies, he didn't have much time for that. He moved to Paris for his studies and couldnt afford a laptop, so he stopped PMO and read a LOT (mainly russian litterature), relapsing only when he was back in our hometown to see me and his family (mostly once per month).

After that I also moved to Paris for my studies and even if we didn't live together, we could see each other more often, but that's around that time we experienced a non-welcomed slowdown in our sex life : he had no sex-drive anymore, couldn't always keep his erection during intercourse, and even I had to play the ultra slutty girlfriend (/porn actress) to turn him on. We almost broke up, because I felt he was not in love with me anymore, but he kept telling me he loved me and desired me, but nothing was going well under his belt.

We put it on his studies, because he had high expectations for himself and was working a lot. We also noticed that he had more sex-drive while in vacations, but that was only 2 weeks in a year... Now I think that was a flat-line from quitting porn. Sadly he tought that thinking more about sex, watching more porn, and masturbating would be the solution, so he went back to that, I don't know how regularly.

Then Bear and I moved in together, in a tiny 350 square feet flat in Paris and since, he only had a few occasions to PMO, maybe once per month or two months.
Since he was working on his thesis and being a Phd, our sex life had ups and downs, and I was most of the time frustrated with it. One intercourse per week was enough for him, and that is the rate when I was starting the thing. Otherwise, sick of pulling the "porn scenario" to get laid,  I could wait 10 to 12 days before he thought about having sex again. I also made decisions to change our birth control method : pill wasnt right for me, so we used condoms for a while and that was a bummer for his pleasure, so I switch to an IUD, making things better than before, but not as good as it could be.

For all these years I've sensed that he didn't have a normal sexual life, and I've searched for answers and imagined that no more love was the cause of him being less interested in sex, then work, then condoms...

Because my work allowed me some free time once in a while I had more alone time than him, and because I was sexually frustrated, I started PMO and realized how powerfull it is, making you switch from a video to another... and I realized how quick the desensitivation can be, so I was really carefull about it. But it made me more comprehensive towards the industry : in some way, it helped me a little bit.

So when I discovered my Bear was still PMO when he had the chance (funny thing : he let a tab open and forgot about it, then showed me something else on his screen and went back to the porn tab, like "oops, have you seen that ?"), I was ok with it but it upset me a little bit he would rather jerk off than f*** me. I thought maybe it was a way for him to rebuild some confidence, or just his libido, so I said OK, ok you can do it, just don't lie to me. I told him I had PMOed too recently, so we stayed honest to one another.

We got married three years ago and we moved to the US 6 months later. I can say I abandoned the idea of having a better sex life. When we were talking about it, Bear was saying "Ok I wanna make you happy", and then making very good love to me, and we were both glad but then things were just back to where they were before. At least, he had no more issues staying hard during intercourse and each time we had sex it was still loving and half the time fulfilling.

But for the past year I've been feeling neglected (like he didn't even bother pleasuring me anymore)  and recently we encountered some flat-lines, and we went almost 3 weeks without sex, which is for me REALLY difficult. We talked about it, and talked about the fact that we werent satisfied about our sex life for the past 5 or 6 years, that he was the slowing factor of it all...  He told me he couldnt understand why he couldnt have more sex drive, especially because he loves me so much, he always calls me "foxy" (funny for a Wolf ;))  and he adores having sex with me.

For him, the only explanation is that he felt like he developped another kind of sexuality when he was a teenager : he was attracted to porn, and not to people.

In fact he always told me he has never been attracted to another person than me, and I think maybe I am part of his fantasies because he fell in love with me for the first time when he was in the middle of conditioning his brain into porn attraction, and he included me in his fantasies.

The next day I searched "attracted to porn" on Google, and I found the whole Reboot Nation, YBOP, etc. I watched Gabe's videos (Bear did too) and they gave sense to our sex life! Thanks a LOT for that.

Bear doesn't have ED (anymore), I think he suffered from Delayed Ejaculation (some times, he prefered to stop intercourse because it was not "good enough", mostly when he orgasmed the day before) and he maybe PMOed twice in the past year (he told me last time was last Christmas 2014, back in France, back to his parents place, without me around...). He always needs at least a full week to have sex after an orgasm, if I push him a little bit, it can be sooner but he doesn't have his mojo (like he doesn't know how to pleasure me anymore), or needs to stop as said before. Refractory period.... well we never really tested it, for years he told me he couldnt get hard the same day, or the next morning, so I guess, 8 to 10 hours. For Bear, it was just normal, even being in his 20's, in good shape and good health !

We decided to go for a real Reboot this time, but I have still lot of doubts, since it's been years he hasn't PMOed on a daily basis, apparently he never watched crazy porn (mostly still pictures, and facials) and I feel like his brain is not as hijacked as others Rebooters from whom I've read the stories : we have a strong connection, we are spending a lot of time together, hiking, backpacking, we have a good social life, seeing different groups of friends several times a week, and we are very demonstrative towards each other. I am afraid there is no more "rewiring" possible.

Anyway, here is our goal : no orgasm for one month, and no porn-induced fantasies if we are having sex anyway, all renewable.  Today is our 5th day.

What do you guys think of that ? Would you have any other advice for us ?

Thanks for taking time in reading me, I know it's a looong story, I hope not too boring for you.

And good luck in your own journey.
All the best,
Wolf.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2015, 08:56:20 PM by Wolf »

PapaThales

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Re: Age 30 - Wolf and her husband Bear - in need of advice
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2015, 01:54:15 AM »
Welcome Wolf!  Intriguing story!  I admit I can be a spotty reader at times, but it seemed like I couldn't develop a good sense of what exactly is currently dysfunctional in you guys' sexual relationship.  But since I don't intend to do any real advising (I'll leave that to more seasoned members) I suppose I don't need it to be so clear.  Perhaps in a subsequent post you could lay out a brief 'basic facts' summary of what exactly is your spouse's current sexual dysfunctions?
-What is his exact rate of PMO in the last 90 days? 
-Is this something you feel he might want to fudge the numbers on? 
-Is it that he has a general lack of sex drive across the board? 
-Is he having orgasms via some other venue besides sex with you or is he just not having very many orgasms at all?
-Before the beginning of your reboot, how many orgasms had he had in the 30 days just prior to it, with or without you?

Because for most of the Reboot Nation the problem is not inability to have orgasms but rather the circumstances in which they are able to have them.   

Anyway I hope you can find some good feedback from this forum.  And once again, welcome!

Wolf

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Re: Age 30 - Wolf and her husband Bear - in need of advice
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2015, 03:26:14 PM »
Hi PapaThales and thanks for your response !

I understand some things in my story are not clear enough. Here are my answers to your questions :

- Bear didn't PMOed in the past 90 days (last time was around last Christmas, so 8 months ago) but he watched porn approximatively 1 month ago and he told me he's been watching porn maybe once per two months.

- I felt, writing our story, that some datas were missing so I confronted him this morning and got honest answers. He is willing to rewire his brain.

- The problem in our current sexual relationship is that Bear is lacking sex drive and needs a long time after an orgasm to just think about having sex again. Then, and I found out this morning after questioning him, he would think about porn, eventually watching some, BEFORE fantasizing about me, and undertaking intercourse with me.

- He is not having orgasms via other venue than sex with me. He doesn't have problem with having orgasms, it's just that it takes a long, long time to get him started.

- Before the beginning of the reboot, Bear had 4 orgasms in the prior 30 days, 3 of them were a few days apart (at this time I was very horny and harrassed him a little bit)

I told him about this forum and this topic and he doesn't feel very good about it, having his life and sexuality exposed to strangers. So I may stop soon and ask for the topic to be deleted.

Thank you again for your interest in our story, and your kind words.

PapaThales

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Re: Age 30 - Wolf and her husband Bear - in need of advice
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2015, 12:31:59 AM »
Bear's inhibitions are understandable.  Hopefully he doesn't sweat it too much.   I am actually a bit worried that I might have compromised my anonymity with certain details in my own Reboot journal.  So I know where he is coming from.

It is good that Bear is on the same page with you at least in the concept of rewiring. 

You guys seem to have a good mojo with each other and you seem like a really good sport about it all.

Keep going!  NoFap or die!

 
« Last Edit: August 24, 2015, 04:26:10 AM by PapaThales »

MwC2

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Re: Age 30 - Wolf and her husband Bear - in need of advice
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2015, 01:09:39 AM »
Hi Wolf!
You seem like a fantastic woman that really tries to help her man. Life is strange an ironic some times. My own challenges are moderate, and I probably would not have started with porn at all if my wife had 1/2 of your sex drive:)  Early in our relation it was a bit similar to what you are describing so I might be able to give advice. This was more related to performance anxiety than porn, and this is a problem that is hard to get rid off.

I certainly feel that porn does pull sexual energy out of you, so it is very important that your Bear stays clean. We men are not always honest about this, not to ourselves or our partners.

Additionally I would try to have sex without penetration for a while. Be a bit playfull about it. I am almost certain he likes to pleasure you, but holds back since he fears that he will need to 'preform'. Skillful use of hands and tongue is often a better way to female orgasm anyway. I will be very surprised if he does not get turned on and after a few weeks really wants to enter you. Here comes the tricky part. Now it very important that you hold a bit back. 'This is very early, but we could try' is a good comment. If it does not work the first times, explain that it is not urgent, and you love him and his hands.

This is certainly can be  an emotionally draining process, but after your years of frustration it will be a breeze :)

Good luck!!!


Wolf

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Re: Age 30 - Wolf and her husband Bear - in need of advice
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2015, 05:29:04 PM »
Hi MwC2,
thanks for your response and good advices. If only I had read this before last weekend!

Little update since my last connexion.

- Bear and I had a tough 1st week : knowing that we couldn't have sex made us horny but we resisted.
- 2nd week was more difficult as I was about to have my period (no libido for a few days, and a tendency to be upset about anything). We had a few fights, especially about the whole reboot thing (Bear got upset about not having sex. He is ok with no-PMO, but he had issues to understand the purpose of no-orgasm. I had to remind him the rewiring process a couple more times)
- 3rd week, after my period, we decided to have sex, no orgasm. Alas Bear couldn't hold the pressure and decided, without asking me, to let go.

So we lasted 20 days without any orgasm.

I was upset, and still I am feeling betrayed, especially because I did the reboot with him and he decided to orgasm without even thinking of giving me an orgasm (before or after). He said he ejaculated without orgasm because he felt guilty. Now I believe it was too soon to accept a penetration and we shoud have sticked to cuddling and maybe erotic massages.

Next day I was horribly horny and I think he felt obligated to pleasure me, so we had sex again, and both orgasmed. It's been 3 days now, and as I am feeling my desire rushing back, I am pretty sure he won't have that feeling until next week.

Now I don't know what we should do : try again 30 days no orgasm ? or just quit the idea of a reboot ?

I just hope he stays honest with me about watching porn. I asked a couple times just to be sure he is not, but I have this intuition he is lying to me.

sender

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Re: Age 30 - Wolf and her husband Bear - in need of advice
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2015, 12:16:55 PM »
@Wolf, I wouldn't recommend an extended break from sex; sex is very nurturing.  But I completely understand the desire to remove orgasm from the picture for a while.

If you haven't already, have a look here: http://reuniting.info.  There is a wealth of knowledge there about the topic of sex without orgasm.  The term for it is Karezza.  In addition to information, there you will also find a forum where many people (such as myself) who practice this form of sex write about their experiences.

From my experience, orgasm-free sex, or at least sex without orgasm as a goal is wonderful.  It's not for everyone, but for me and my wife, it's the way to go!  But it took some getting used to.  I was not able to succeed at it right away; perhaps your reaction to his failure was a bit harsh (although understandable).  For what it's worth, I find that an orgasm gives me a "hangover" for about a week where I feel very tired and a bit down.  I much prefer how I feel without them.  But even now, I do slip over the edge once in a while.  No only does my wife not mind when I do this, but she maintains her resolve to not orgasm as her hangover is much worse than mine and lasts for around 3 weeks!  We have done enough experiments to know that in her case, the duration and intensity of the aftereffects of orgasm are absolutely not worth the few moments of peak experience.

My wife and I found the book by Marnia Robinson, "Cupid's Poisoned Arrow" enormously helpful.  It takes a science-first approach to explaining the neurochemistry and also many social aspects of Karezza.  There you will find many examples and reasons why this practice has value, and many helpful techniques for conducting successful experiments with it.  Also, the books by Diana Richardson are very helpful from a "technique" point of view.  I suppose you could think of Marnia's book as answering "why" and Diana's books being more about "how".

Bottom line - orgasm is a very difficult habit to break, especially in the short term.  I hope some of these resources will be interesting and informative for you!

Bon chance...
« Last Edit: September 26, 2015, 12:27:36 PM by sender »