Author Topic: Objectifying Women  (Read 45530 times)

SO Reboot Partner

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Re: Objectifying Women
« Reply #175 on: September 13, 2014, 12:11:46 AM »
When they wear revealing outfits, we give them positive feedback.

When I used to stare at women and their bodies, my messed up addict brain used to tell me that this was actually good for the women because it would make them feel good about themselves to be getting attention from a man. My brain told me that if I didn't stare at them, they would feel undesirable and have low self-esteem as a result.

Me too. I honestly thought "I bet I made her day". Jesus. I'm sure, 9 times out of 10, I really just made her uncomfortable and scared. I hate that I am that guy. But I'll feel better when I feel like I used to be that guy. Five days coming up quick. A really, really small start down a long road.

This is interesting because it places the objectifier in the position of controlling what the objectified thinks and feels.

You guys have really traveled a long way from there to reality.

Promise

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Re: Objectifying Women
« Reply #176 on: September 13, 2014, 02:45:57 AM »
In the firm I'm working at (I won't say much, but it involves driving around and digging at various sites), I'd say about 80% of the guys (we're almost entirely male on the workforce) like to oggle women, point them out to colleagues and comment on their faces and bodies.  I make an effort not to pick up what I consider bad habits, I'll follow their gaze to entertain their comments, but what I wanted to know is that is it typical for men to act this way?
My mind always goes to the woman walking in front of a van of 3 men watching her, and wonder if she gets that a lot.  I didn't think about that much before because I've rarely kept company that displays their sexuality so overtly.  Don't get me wrong, I notice women and might glance their way, but my colleagues are brazen and unashamed.

Gracie

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Re: Objectifying Women
« Reply #177 on: September 13, 2014, 07:18:09 AM »
When in my younger years, men would feel they had the right to comment on whatever I wore, how I looked, the length of my legs, the size of my boobs, how they perceived my sexiness or lack thereof on any given day.  Fortunately it was mostly positive.  But I had men say, my (insert any female relationship) is getting a breast reduction, too bad they can't give it to you.  Somehow implying if I had ginormous breasts I would be better. 

So what if a woman would say, based on the bulge in your crotch and its visibility, too bad you are so small, so-and so should give you some of theirs?  What if women said, you know if you exercised, you could have wonderful abs? And we would like you better.  Gee if you would wear less clothes at the beach, say maybe a speedo, we could see your penis better?  If you had long hair, I could really grab a hold of it?  I am whistling at you, doesn't that make you want to hop in bed with me?  I have even had men unzip there pants and say look what you do to me. As if I somehow owe them something because they have a hard-on.  And yes there was no kissing, hugging or touching that had went on.

Objectifiers, transfer responsibility for their physical or mental reactions to the object.  Or a least that is my observation.

RecoveringObjectifier

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Re: Objectifying Women
« Reply #178 on: September 13, 2014, 08:54:24 AM »
When in my younger years, men would feel they had the right to comment on whatever I wore, how I looked, the length of my legs, the size of my boobs, how they perceived my sexiness or lack thereof on any given day.  Fortunately it was mostly positive.  But I had men say, my (insert any female relationship) is getting a breast reduction, too bad they can't give it to you.  ....
 I have even had men unzip there pants and say look what you do to me.

Wow!
I do recognize that just because I've never been blatantly that much of a pig, it does not absolve me of this sin.  I've been more the quiet objectifier, which is much easier to hide behind for a longer amount of time before being called on it.  Luckily, I've sort of called myself out on it before it was too late.




RecoveringObjectifier

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Re: Objectifying Women
« Reply #179 on: September 13, 2014, 08:57:45 AM »

You guys have really traveled a long way from there to reality.

And very grateful that there are women here who help provide that reality benchmark!

Gracie

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Re: Objectifying Women
« Reply #180 on: October 11, 2014, 06:44:40 AM »
This thread has been bumped back up to the top for a while.  So in light of the nude pic hackers I thought it might be a good time.  It is amazing to me that women in Hollywood who have it all. (seemingly) feel that they need to take nude pictures to keep a guy interested.  It makes me sad that our culture has made women feel that their body and looks are the most important parts of their worth. 

That view of women seems to be gaining more and more acceptance.  I have two grandaughters and I dislike that they are growing up in a world that judges them like that.  They are in their late teens and are great young ladies. And I caution them greatly about the naked pictures thing.  They should not have to worry about those things. 

Here is a quote someone sent me:  "If only our eyes saw souls instead of bodies, how different our ideals of beauty would be."   And know that every body that is looked at has a soul.   

Blue80

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Re: Objectifying Women
« Reply #181 on: October 11, 2014, 03:32:18 PM »
..feel that they need to take nude pictures to keep a guy interested.

This isn't why they do it, they do it because a) they are proud of their bodies and or b) they are attention junkies. The idea it's "to keep a guy interested" is offensive to most females with the ability to think for themselves.

...and it isn't a new thing that a woman's physique is linked to her value, I am pretty sure the appearance of being a viable healthy female reproductive mate goes back to caveman days.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2014, 03:35:35 PM by Blue80 »

Promise

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Re: Objectifying Women
« Reply #182 on: October 11, 2014, 03:52:16 PM »
Just because it may have roots in evolution doesn't mean it's a good thing.  Do you want to live in a society where 50% of the inhabitants are only valued for their physical attributes?

I honestly don't see the problem with sending pictures to one another, the problem arises (like Jennifer Lawrence said) when people feel the need to compete with porn.  As though those nude pictures are the only way to keep their partners interested.  Now that's not why they all do it, but J-Law explicitly stated that's why she took them.

I'd argue that things are slowly getting better for women in our society though.

SO Reboot Partner

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Re: Objectifying Women
« Reply #183 on: October 12, 2014, 03:08:15 AM »
That all being said about JLaw and the noodie pictures, I would hazard to guess that there are far more male junk shots, freely offered and without invitation than ladies trying to garner attention from partners. I won't say the collective female reaction is EW, but it is a pretty high percentage. Women aren't impressed with that there eye-candy showing up on the smartphone, yet there is a common, widely held belief that yes, we need to see that in order to be pleased.

Ya' know, the penguin just gives his potential mate a pebble. That is pretty nice.



Promise

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Re: Objectifying Women
« Reply #184 on: October 12, 2014, 07:15:38 AM »
Speaking as a bloke, we enjoy doing that, but I'd never do it unsolicited.  [TRIGGER WARNING] I've had the odd webcam session in the past, and it's a nice feeling when a woman gets off on seeing you.

Blue80

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Re: Objectifying Women
« Reply #185 on: October 12, 2014, 05:18:59 PM »
Do you want to live in a society where 50% of the inhabitants are only valued for their physical attributes?

Not really, I am watching some pretty innocent tv right now and during the add break was 10 mins of ass, legs, skin, legs...(fashion, skincare etc). Having not looked at porn for some time I could see clear as day and it's p!ssed me right off.

This surely doesn't help overweight or "average looking" women either. So we have society chipping away at one sex's self esteem while zombifying the other. Who benefits from poorly functioning humans?...

Maybe a topic for a different thread.

Gracie

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Re: Objectifying Women
« Reply #186 on: October 12, 2014, 09:29:44 PM »
This is how my husband feels.  He gets the affront to self esteem for women now.  This even happens on the Inspiration Channel, and Hallmark Channel which are supposed to be more family oriented.  The shows are but the commercials are not.

TheStruggle

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Re: Objectifying Women
« Reply #187 on: October 13, 2014, 01:53:58 AM »
So... bit of a confession on my part. In the early days of all this amateur photograbbing and before the celeb photohacks there were flaws in photobucket that included a work around for getting into people's private pictures. Once I figured that out that there were places these were dumped to before they ended up on the litany of amateur porn sites out there, I spent a decent amount of hours wandering through people's private images. The interesting thing is it wasn't just a view into their sexual lives. A lot of the time it was a cross section of their entire life. It becomes somewhat more difficult to objectify a person when at one second you're looking at them naked and the next you're looking at their ultrasound photo.

Even then I keenly understood that this was a violation of these people's privacy, but at the time I felt that it was a victimless crime, because I was seeing them and not sharing them. Then I found one particular gallery that had been pulled from someone's private photobucket that was chalk full of identifying information about them. It took me about thirty seconds to find the person's name and social media profile. Not so anonymous anymore... not so victimless.

I warned her that her images were being hotlinked and we had a conversation about why she took them. Her fiancé was overseas serving in the military. She wanted to share with him so he would think of her while he was over there. During my entire addiction phase that's the most disgusted I ever felt with myself. It was also the first time I tried to quit, although I didn't make it long.

Jennifer Lawrence's discussion of her pictures and the kind of violation it was delivered a precise reminder to me about that day a few years back when I'd had that conversation. It also went to show me how damn little I'd learned, because quite honestly I was right in line on 4chan for my handout the instant I heard that dozens of celebrity accounts had been hacked. I think that's a big part of what got me started up on trying to reboot for the first time in years.

This cyber-bullying/revenge porn shit isn't okay and it isn't good for any of us. It's one thing to share something that's been given with the intent of being shared, but I completely agree with Jennifer Lawrence on the wrongness of choosing to look up something that wasn't given to be shared, or was stolen. It isn't about her decision to take a photo and send it to her boyfriend, it's about us sharing in the exploits of thieves and stalkers. Because if any of this were done in the physical world instead of the digital one, that's exactly what this would be.

Sorry, hope this wasn't too much of a sidebar to your discussion but it's been weighing on my mind. Tough to read about someone crying themselves to sleep over something I participated in, even in a small, secondhand way and not think about it. They don't have the luxury of Anonymously posting about their disturbance over this like I do.

SO Reboot Partner

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Re: Objectifying Women
« Reply #188 on: October 13, 2014, 06:35:20 AM »
So... bit of a confession on my part. In the early days of all this amateur photograbbing and before the celeb photohacks there were flaws in photobucket that included a work around for getting into people's private pictures. Once I figured that out that there were places these were dumped to before they ended up on the litany of amateur porn sites out there, I spent a decent amount of hours wandering through people's private images. The interesting thing is it wasn't just a view into their sexual lives. A lot of the time it was a cross section of their entire life. It becomes somewhat more difficult to objectify a person when at one second you're looking at them naked and the next you're looking at their ultrasound photo.

Even then I keenly understood that this was a violation of these people's privacy, but at the time I felt that it was a victimless crime, because I was seeing them and not sharing them. Then I found one particular gallery that had been pulled from someone's private photobucket that was chalk full of identifying information about them. It took me about thirty seconds to find the person's name and social media profile. Not so anonymous anymore... not so victimless.

I warned her that her images were being hotlinked and we had a conversation about why she took them. Her fiancé was overseas serving in the military. She wanted to share with him so he would think of her while he was over there. During my entire addiction phase that's the most disgusted I ever felt with myself. It was also the first time I tried to quit, although I didn't make it long.

Jennifer Lawrence's discussion of her pictures and the kind of violation it was delivered a precise reminder to me about that day a few years back when I'd had that conversation. It also went to show me how damn little I'd learned, because quite honestly I was right in line on 4chan for my handout the instant I heard that dozens of celebrity accounts had been hacked. I think that's a big part of what got me started up on trying to reboot for the first time in years.

This cyber-bullying/revenge porn shit isn't okay and it isn't good for any of us. It's one thing to share something that's been given with the intent of being shared, but I completely agree with Jennifer Lawrence on the wrongness of choosing to look up something that wasn't given to be shared, or was stolen. It isn't about her decision to take a photo and send it to her boyfriend, it's about us sharing in the exploits of thieves and stalkers. Because if any of this were done in the physical world instead of the digital one, that's exactly what this would be.

Sorry, hope this wasn't too much of a sidebar to your discussion but it's been weighing on my mind. Tough to read about someone crying themselves to sleep over something I participated in, even in a small, secondhand way and not think about it. They don't have the luxury of Anonymously posting about their disturbance over this like I do.

I think this is a perfect sharing. Thank you for taking the time and heart to share it.

Building on what you've said here - I do not understand how we as SO's are supposed to fully accept that "it is just looking, not real cheating" when in the context of cyber-bullying/revenge porn and photograbbing the viewing of images is a violation.

The choice to look and the intent and extent to which the viewer exercises to "just look" is at issue. We can say it is "dopamine" or because of "addiction" or even "just the nature of man" but it is a choice to do more than just look. Aside from a few pirates and cyclops out there, everybody has two eyes in the front of their head that can choose to see real relationships rather than images.

Blue80

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Re: Objectifying Women
« Reply #189 on: October 13, 2014, 02:29:32 PM »
This is how my husband feels.  He gets the affront to self esteem for women now.  This even happens on the Inspiration Channel, and Hallmark Channel which are supposed to be more family oriented.  The shows are but the commercials are not.

What I see is males constantly being encouraged to objectify women in all forms of media. I don't think men should be ashamed of this, or even blamed given that the highly visual & sexual nature of the male species is being exploited relentlessly.

A hetrosexual male is never going to stop enjoying looking at beautiful females, ever... it's hard-coded in our DNA. I honestly think we can only be enlightened and accountable for exercising self control.

In the same way, women can't be blamed for feelings of inadequacy from the very same media exposure given that they are substantially more self-analytical by nature.

The irony being the risqué adverts are invariably targetting females.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2014, 02:32:10 PM by Blue80 »

Gracie

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Re: Objectifying Women
« Reply #190 on: October 13, 2014, 04:36:25 PM »
And women are not going to stop looking at attractive men either.  That is not the point.  Men are not "just looking"  they are looking and doing either imagining in their head (when in public) or doing with their hand when not.  That is the point.  People are constantly encouaged to drink by the media as well.  But not all people do.  Women are encouraged to have plastic surgery but not all do. 

The excuse (and that is what it is) that at 10 we can't help it and at 99 we can't help it, is simply not true. 

Blue80

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Re: Objectifying Women
« Reply #191 on: October 15, 2014, 12:20:47 PM »
And women are not going to stop looking at attractive men either.  That is not the point.  Men are not "just looking"  they are looking and doing either imagining in their head (when in public) or doing with their hand when not.

Glad you cleared that up, I like to look at women as I like pretty faces and nice curves, but I don't have any active sexual thoughts real-time or later on so I have nothing to be ashamed of!

...or you greyed out the description of the term just enough to stop yourself looking like a massive hypocrite.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 12:34:09 PM by Blue80 »

Gracie

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Re: Objectifying Women
« Reply #192 on: October 16, 2014, 06:35:50 AM »
Blue, I do not understand the greying out thing.

Rainiegirl

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Re: Objectifying Women
« Reply #193 on: December 08, 2014, 11:11:55 AM »
I keep seeing a recurring theme on here that is troubling me. The idea that men are hard wired for visual stimulation. This idea is harmful because part of addiction in justifying your actions in order to release yourself from shame and guilt associated with acting out. I know there are alot of studies and articles out there that seem to prove the belief that men are more visually stimulated but I would like everyone to read the following...

New brain research challenges the myth that men are more visual than women.

It is considered an almost forgone conclusion across research disciplines, among pop psychologists of all stripes, and in the general population that men are more “visual” than women when it comes to the way they get turned on. Men, we’re told, are visually aroused, whereas women just need a good sense of humor, and possibly a strong jaw, and they're on board. This misguided, but pervasive belief can be linked to a host of other gender stereotypes which are further complicated by sexual politics and differences in social power. So arguments which should be challenged, such as the “fact” that men leer more than women do, that they objectify women’s bodies more than women do men’s bodies, and that they just can’t stop watching porn, are explained as somehow being related to a mix of genetics, patriarchy.

Challenging these ideas can be a monumental task. Researcher bias being what it is, science rarely offers support for these "counter-intuitive" ideas. What's worse, when research does start to complicate matters, the media, and even smart bloggers who should know better, distort the findings beyond recognition. Nonetheless, a recent study published in the journal Brain Research is offering the first preliminary but important evidence to dispel the age old myth that visual imagery is more important to men than it is to women. And it's worth considering without hyperbole.

The study, carried out by researchers at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis measured brainwave activity of 264 women as they viewed a series of 55 color slides that contained various scenes from water skiers to snarling dogs to partially-clad couples in sensual poses. The researchers were interested in the speed, strength, and location of brainwave activity of the subjects as they viewed erotic versus non-erotic images. As they hypothesized, the brainwave activity of participants was markedly different when viewing erotic images versus non-erotic images. But a finding they didn’t expect was that female participant’s response was similar to men. In a prepared statement, lead author Andrey P. Anokhin explained:

"Usually men subjectively rate erotic material much higher than women," he says. "So based on those data we would expect lower responses in women, but that was not the case. Women have responses as strong as those seen in men."
« Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 11:15:08 AM by Rainiegirl »

Rainiegirl

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Re: Objectifying Women
« Reply #194 on: December 08, 2014, 11:24:24 AM »

Gracie

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Re: Objectifying Women
« Reply #195 on: December 17, 2014, 07:34:55 AM »
This was an insightful post by sad and confused over in Partners.  We all start recognizing this for what it is.

Sexual objectification

I watched a video on sexual objectification and it has really stayed with me and upset quiet a lot. 

My thoughts.. ......

A subject is normally a person , a subject carries out an action. 
An object, a thing has an action carried out to it.  Like actions in p. The subject (the person) carrying out the action  on the object; the sun of sexual parts.  This makes me feel ill  in my stomach.  This is magnified within society.  Women as  object,  a set of bony parts there for sexual action to be done.  Our girls,  our children are growing up in a world were they need to cover up because they are sexual objects added people may not be able to control themselves and act  apon there desires.  Or just as bad act on them in their head,  looking,  objectifying.  Us humor to normalise it within society.  Ah sure I'm just looking , OBJECTYING.  leading to a culture of rape jokes,  and even as desturbing our girls looking at themselves as objects of desire,  to be after apon, sexually,  in order to feel needed,  whole as a person,  when I'm truth society,  us are teaching them to dismember there bodies into varies parts of a persons sexual desire

Rant over - my eyes are opening, opening wide. 

S &C





enablerblue

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Re: Objectifying Women
« Reply #196 on: December 17, 2014, 10:38:02 AM »
Yes. This is sadly true. Finding feminism and educating myself on the true roots of patriarchy has opened my eyes to the distorted way we function as humans. It's depressing. There is hope, by what I see here, many men are waking up to how societal pressures have driven them into hiding.

Men fight their entire live up to the stereotypical male image, when their true nature may be quite opposite of what is expected from them. This leads to all kinds of internal trauma, often resulting in acting out or withdrawing completely, exhibiting hidden behaviours such as what we see here on the forums.

Women also feel the pressure to live up to unrealistic expectations. Such as looking, acting and having sex like porn stars, while simultaneously maintaining a perfect home, career and family life.
This drives us to resent the men and some women in our lives, only driving that wedge deeper in the relationships we cultivate.

Society has become so sex obsessed, sex driven (thank you again, porn!) that women have to watch their every move. How we act around men we don't know, how we manage ourselves from morning to night. Many of us are afraid of walking alone. We are no longer seen as humans, but objects to be penetrated.

I can not stand porn because of this. It is destroying humanity.

pckcomeback

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Re: Objectifying Women
« Reply #197 on: May 14, 2019, 12:52:06 AM »
feel good  ;D
ufabet       
      

HumbleRich

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Re: Objectifying Women
« Reply #198 on: May 18, 2019, 01:20:44 PM »
Wow, this is a really long thread now.

Before I begin, I want to say that I only feel comfortable talking from a heterosexual man’s point of view.  I assume that the following is the same for women, but I cannot guarantee that, so I don’t aim to generalize.

My two cents is that porn and erotic media lead to the objectification of women.  Real life does NOT.  What I mean by that is that I draw a very thick line between noticing beauty and sexiness and obsessing over it or living through it.

As someone who reads and works with science every day, I believe that humans are sexual creatures.  We do desire the opposite sex and want to procreate.  Basically, being attracted to members of the opposite sex is natural.

Ogling and unnatural staring is something different.  It is acquired through consuming media.  Natural glances are seconds long, subtle, and do NOT separate the personhood of the person being looked at from the sexiness.  Ogling does.

All of that to say that I feel that society’s stance against teenage sexuality is the root, which leads young men and women to porn, which hijacks their sexualities and makes actual sexuality problematic.

I would have preferred it if I had never seen porn.  EVER.  It ruined my ability to associate with women and to manage my sexuality.

Not being brought up with porn means that a heterosexual boy or man is attracted to WHOLE women.  Yes, they are attracted to women because they have breasts, vaginas, and nice behinds.  Biologically, that is what drives them towards women.  But this natural biological attraction is tied to the personhood of the individual.

So, yes, the woman a man is attracted to may have started as an object, but in interacting with said woman, the man sees her as a subject, as equal.

The subject hood of the woman then reinforces her equal footing.  Without erotic media, the only way a man can live out his sexuality is by respecting the women he engages with sexually.  Make sense? 

More than that, I imagine that there would be no objectification in the first place.  We men naturally want to be desired by those we desire, so objectification the way we see it in our world makes no sense whatsoever.  Neither does the abuse of those that we desire.  It is the result of a status quo that objectifies women.  Not of natural sexual desire.

I can imagine an alternative reality where I never consumed or ever saw porn.  I would have had natural crushes and maybe even dated in my early teens.  I would have made out with those crushes or maybe petted.’

Again in this alternative reality the only way anyone would be able to be sexual is through consent.

I would get to college, have sex and enjoy it.  I wouldn’t have objectified my sexual partners, but would have seen sex as the amazing experience it is, between two people.

That reality was stolen from me by an industry that wants to own men and take advantage of natural sexuality for financial gain.

End porn now.

Rich
« Last Edit: May 18, 2019, 01:26:39 PM by HumbleRich »

HumbleRich

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Re: Objectifying Women
« Reply #199 on: May 18, 2019, 01:38:09 PM »
I forgot to mention that in an alternative reality where erotic media did NOT exist, the focus would be on the EXPERIENCE of sex, rather than obtaining the object or woman. 

Rather than sexuality being a game where someone wins, it would be an experience of attraction, initiation, and equal engagement between two people on an equal footing.

To sum up my point of view

1.  Religion makes sex bad and blames women.

Women are taught that they excite men.  Men are told that it is bad that women excite them.  Women are told it is their fault and they need to act to stop men from being excited by them.

This insanity leads to 2.

2.  Banning sex leads to porn as a substitution.

Because teenagers are told that sexuality is bad, their natural attraction to the opposite sex leads them to porn.

3.  Porn makes them see those they are attracted to as objects. 

When you watch porn or look at erotic images, you quite literally objectify the individual.  They are a photo or image.  Yow OWN them.

4.  The mind generalizes this feeling of ownership to the real women men interact with.

Men feel that they are entitled to the women they are attracted to and are owed sex.



Alternative world without porn and erotica

1.  People are sexual and are attracted to other people.

2.  Teenagers are forced to enact their sexuality with real people.  I do not support underage sex. This means that they date, kiss, make out with, and engage in their sexuality with others in mutually consensual exchanges.  Because of this, men learn what consent is.  They look for consent in exchanges and sexuality is automatically aligned with consent.  You can’t be sexual without consent.

3.  Women are seen as people, even when you are attracted to them.

4.  Men do not see women as objects, and can take rejection.  because women are not objects, it doesn’t disgrace a man’s manhood to be rejected..

5.  Men want to engage with enthusiastic partners and so they seek relationships with women they are attracted with.

There you go.  The world may not have been perfect without porn, but I imagine many of the problems we have in society would not have been problems without porn.

Rich