Author Topic: Re-Boot Camp Journal  (Read 34677 times)

Punk Monk

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Re: Re-Boot Camp Journal
« Reply #50 on: November 22, 2015, 01:41:37 AM »
Thanks Lyon,

And I'm inspired by you hitting over a YEAR without porn. Good for you, brother!

The Porn Goggles thing fascinates me now. And I'm kind of having fun tracking and deconstructing that whole thought process.

There was a young lady in my kung fu class who I thought reminded me someone I used to jack it to.  And I noticed my physiological reaction to her was the same as looking at pictures of my fantasy celeb. And it was actually impacting the real world interactions I had with her.

The funny thing is that now the Porn Goggles are off, I realize she looks almost nothing like the celeb! And I wonder how in the hell I thought there was a resemblance in the first place!

The mind is a powerful thing. I guess it was trying to find another outlet for its serotonin rush. Since I was no longer looking at soft corn porn, my warped pea brain was trying to shunt the obsession into the real world.

Leon

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Re: Re-Boot Camp Journal
« Reply #51 on: November 22, 2015, 10:23:05 AM »
Hi, Punk Monk.

Congratulations on six months! You already know of the progress made physiologically, as well as with your wife.

Having an appreciation for how serious this addiction is (often likened to a heroine or cocaine addiction), as well as an appreciation for the science of it, are important things to have in place for the long haul.

If it's no longer in our life, it's no longer a factor. If it's not in our heart/mind to do, then great. Nothing chains us to keep posting here (other than giving back to the community), and I know for myself, I don't want to constantly think about this stuff nor give it any place in my life. I don't know if that's why you hadn't posted here in a while (prior to this). But, if there's an inching up to (pun intended) former behaviors, which for me always start with the more innocence glances on T.V., public places, or FB, it's a skirting around the rims of the porn-pit, which once we fall into, it's very, very hard to get out of- and perhaps we forget how hard it was.

While we want to create a new identity for ourselves (not the old us minus the porn), and perhaps distance ourselves from the reminders (which include even this place), we needn't be too far away from what worked before just in case we're 'edging up to' the abyss.

We have to be doggedly serious about the change we're seeking to enact, so much so that we're purposeful about it, albeit in a non-obsessive way.

Be well.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2015, 12:13:10 PM by Leon »

Punk Monk

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Re: Re-Boot Camp Journal
« Reply #52 on: November 30, 2015, 11:34:02 AM »
Hey Leon,

Thanks for the insightful words.  And I really love the "skirting around the rims of the porn-pit".  metaphor.  So true. So true.

I was also struck by the reminder that as we move past addiction, we must create a new identity for ourselves, not just the "old" us minus the crutch.  It is amazing how much of my mind was occupied with porn and how the "new" me has used that free space towards the resurgence of old hobbies and the pursuit of some new ones.

PM

Punk Monk

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Re: Re-Boot Camp Journal
« Reply #53 on: November 30, 2015, 11:41:07 AM »
So as I approach two weeks free of gateway soft core porn, I feel pretty good.

Being away for a week with minimal access to internet helped with that.

I confess, though, that I did M and O, though not to porn.  Some situations prevented me and my lovely wife from getting it on, so it was only my lady love I was thinking of.

But although, I would consider this "healthy masturbation", it does bring up an interesting question: "Is there such a thing for us?"

My personal belief is that there is. Masturbation in and of itself is not necessarily a bad thing. And can actually server a useful purpose. But to those of us who have made it an obsessively central part of our lives, can even "healthy" masturbation be harmful? Is that like giving an alcoholic a single "healthy" drink?

Leon

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Re: Re-Boot Camp Journal
« Reply #54 on: December 01, 2015, 12:23:46 PM »
Hey Leon,

Thanks for the insightful words.  And I really love the "skirting around the rims of the porn-pit".  metaphor.  So true. So true.

I was also struck by the reminder that as we move past addiction, we must create a new identity for ourselves, not just the "old" us minus the crutch.  It is amazing how much of my mind was occupied with porn and how the "new" me has used that free space towards the resurgence of old hobbies and the pursuit of some new ones.

PM

It's so true. I also like the term you used, gateway porn. Both are very descriptive of the situation. Remembered just yesterday how a 'friend suggestion' on FB quickly drew me in. On the profile (yes, I went there), there were depictions of many things that I've liked before.

I found myself asking, 'Why did I have a need to go there? What is it that I'm going through now that I feel a need to medicate myself by going to a provocative profile?' - I haven't yet found the answer, but this is the thought process. I worked things out with my wife last night, sexually, so- took opportunity to rewire instead. But these things can be so dangerous for us, and our resolve can dissolve so quickly.

This place, however, strengthens our resolve once again.

Toward your other thoughts, I shared this recently on my own journal, but it's appropriate to share here as well:

Someone words it well on another site:

Have the mindset of "a new you", not "the old you minus PMO".

~ Omega Man.

And there's this quote attributed to Socrates (though it's a character from a book named 'Socrates'):

The secret of change is to focus all of your energy, not on fighting the old, but on building the new.

~ Character 'Socrates', Way of the Peaceful Warrior: A Book that Changes Lives by Dan Millman

Punk Monk

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Re: Re-Boot Camp Journal
« Reply #55 on: December 01, 2015, 11:01:03 PM »

And there's this quote attributed to Socrates (though it's a character from a book named 'Socrates'):

The secret of change is to focus all of your energy, not on fighting the old, but on building the new.

~ Character 'Socrates', Way of the Peaceful Warrior: A Book that Changes Lives by Dan Millman

That's brilliant! Thanks for the reminder.  I read that book once a long time ago.  Might not be a bad idea to bust it out again...

Punk Monk

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Re: Re-Boot Camp Journal
« Reply #56 on: December 08, 2015, 05:13:28 PM »
So the Missus has her "monthly friend" this week. Which means, as we like to put it, "the store is closed".

And since we'd been having good sex regularly, this drought led to a a couple of night of M and O, though no P (although the Mental Spank Bank is pretty stocked with high quality images).

Again, is this "normal masturbation"? And that something guys like us can enjoy. (I asked that in my last post and WOULD REALLY like some feedback, if y'all wouldn't mind).

The one thing I noticed during those few days is that the "Porn Goggles" started coming back.  The missus and I went to a mall this weekend for some Christmas shopping and My Porn Brain went nuts at all the women in the area. It was a Spank Bank image harvest. To quote the song "there was long one's, tall ones, short ones, brown ones, black ones, round ones, big ones, crazy ones..." I had to make a conscious effort not to stare to throw off a creep vibe.
 
Fortunately I had the good sense (and Reboot Nation) to get me back on track. And after a couple of days of healthy living, I feel like a new man.

Still, it's amazing how that Bastard Porn Brain works, sometimes!

PM

now-man

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Re: Re-Boot Camp Journal
« Reply #57 on: December 11, 2015, 03:15:48 PM »
Hi Punk Monk, really got a lot from reading your thread, thanks for posting.

You said: And since we'd been having good sex regularly, this drought led to a a couple of night of M and O, though no P (although the Mental Spank Bank is pretty stocked with high quality images).

Again, is this "normal masturbation"? And that something guys like us can enjoy. (I asked that in my last post and WOULD REALLY like some feedback, if y'all wouldn't mind).


I'm fairly new at this, and I haven't had any M or O at all since I started. So I'm not exactly in the same place you are. But just reading your post it looks to me like you may have answered your own question. You said: The one thing I noticed during those few days is that the "Porn Goggles" started coming back. That's one indication that using the "Mental Spank Bank" to M and O isn't in the "normal, healthy masturbation" domain for you.

I really relate to what you've shared about looking at images to get a little hit. I realized after my first couple weeks of no PMO that I was using porn-subs, so I stopped. I removed grindr and scruff apps and a hookup email account from my phone, and then reset my 'looking at porn-subs' counter again when I later looked at a mainstream magazine with swimsuit and underwear ads - I could feel the urge driving me to look. It's like the material gets less explicit, but the craving brain tries to get more subtle about getting a hit.

Someone else (I think Leon) mentioned a 2 second rule, which I think means: if I notice my mind moving towards an arousing image, look away before 2 seconds have passed. Seems like a way to bring to my awareness how often and how much my brain is trying to get a little hit.

I'm still waiting to find out where this is all leading - hoping for a return of normal functioning. But I think you said it well in a previous post, that for people like us who have masturbation very tied in to porn use, there could be waiting period before normal, healthy masturbation is easy.

Wish you well, and grateful for your sharing.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2015, 03:17:29 PM by now-man »

Punk Monk

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Re: Re-Boot Camp Journal
« Reply #58 on: December 12, 2015, 06:00:33 PM »
Now-Man,

Thanks for the insightful reply.

And I can relate to your post as well. During the early stage of recovery, I'd actually find myself leafing through my wife's "Vogue" or "In Style" magazine for a visual "hit" of stimulation...much like an alcoholic looking for vanilla extract or mouthwash.

So yeah...the "two second rule" is probably a good one.

Although, my goal is disconnect the imagery from the impulses. I don't want to get to a point where I can't see a bra commercial or a famous supermodel on TV without instantly wanting to masturbate.  One of goal is to be able to see a beautiful, sexy woman and just be able to appreciate her for just that.

Don't think I shared this, but I had an epiphany about addiction a while back:

An addict isn't addicted to The Thing. An addicted is addicted to the Feeling which The Thing gives.  The Thing is just the mechanism.

So when my wife was drinking, she was really addicted to the numb feeling the booze gave her. The booze was just the way for her to get it.

Likewise, we are really addicted to that Serotonin rush. The PMO is just the way we get there. So, if I can reduce the need for that rush AND disassociate The Thing from The Feeling, seeing the "Sports Illustrated Swimsuit" issue sitting on a newsstand  shouldn't throw me into a tizzy.

I've found I can replace The Thing with more healthy, creative pursuits that bring me joy (playing guitar, writing, martial arts, etc). So if I'm achieving fulfillment through those activities, the desire to seek it elsewhere fades.

That's the theory, anyway. Let's see if it works.

Stay tuned...
« Last Edit: December 12, 2015, 06:10:42 PM by Punk Monk »

Leon

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Re: Re-Boot Camp Journal
« Reply #59 on: December 12, 2015, 06:25:52 PM »
So yeah...the "two second rule" is probably a good one.

Although, my goal is disconnect the imagery from the impulses. I don't want to get to a point where I can't see a bra commercial or a famous supermodel on TV without instantly wanting to masturbate.  One of goal is to be able to see a beautiful, sexy woman and just be able to appreciate her for just that.

Punk Monk,

I was just thinking along the same lines today, and in reference to the two second rule:

I always had wondered what was the elusive and blurry line between appreciating a woman for her beauty and actual lust, which leads to masturbation and/or pornography. I knew that there was a place where I could appreciate their beauty, and not be lustful, or voyeuristic, but when I'd start thinking along those lines, I'd eventually fall into lust without realizing it- or sometimes realizing it.

The two second rule is different then say, 'white-knuckling it', trying not to lust after everything that moves, afraid to even see a woman, without falling into that obsessive mindset. The two second rule says, "Okay, you can see a beautiful woman, and appreciate her beauty- but only for two seconds"- now, that isn't a long time, but it's long enough to appreciate her beauty, while at the same time disrupting what may be a natural biological stimulus to our reproductive system, where our brains starts seeing her as a potential mating partner. I've found that even in the two second time period, my mind can remember the image, but it's not so burned into my brain. Instead, I get a better sense of self control in public, and it spills over into my private life. In this way, I can appreciate beauty without taking it as a dopamine hit, or something to further unhealthy behaviors later on.

Hope this helps. 

now-man

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Re: Re-Boot Camp Journal
« Reply #60 on: December 13, 2015, 03:19:36 AM »
Thanks Leon for that description - it matches what I've been experiencing. I've been practicing 2 seconds when I notice someone arousing or attractive, or a photo. What I like is: I don't have to force myself not to look, I can register what I see, and then I look away and move on feeling pretty balanced instead of gazing and feeling obsessive about it. It's  a healthy option.

lyon03

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Re: Re-Boot Camp Journal
« Reply #61 on: December 13, 2015, 04:16:23 AM »
"I've found I can replace The Thing with more healthy, creative pursuits that bring me joy (playing guitar, writing, martial arts, etc). So if I'm achieving fulfillment through those activities, the desire to seek it elsewhere fades." Great insight brother. You're well on your way to 30 days and beyond. Be well. PORN IS NOT AN OPTION.

Leon

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Re: Re-Boot Camp Journal
« Reply #62 on: December 13, 2015, 12:58:44 PM »
Thanks Leon for that description - it matches what I've been experiencing. I've been practicing 2 seconds when I notice someone arousing or attractive, or a photo. What I like is: I don't have to force myself not to look, I can register what I see, and then I look away and move on feeling pretty balanced instead of gazing and feeling obsessive about it. It's  a healthy option.

Exactly! It really allows for the natural (attraction) without falling into an obsessive mindset. The obsessive mindset can happen both ways, either by denying our natural attractions all together (trying not to look), or by looking too long (glaring, leering, lusting).

The two second rule is a nice way of bypassing that.

Punk Monk

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Re: Re-Boot Camp Journal
« Reply #63 on: December 13, 2015, 06:16:25 PM »
Lyon, as always, thanks for the encouragement!

Leon, thank you for the eloquence and insight. We should strive for that middle ground where we can acknowledge and appreciate without obsessing and the two-second rule is a great exercise in helping us get there.

I had a slight breakthrough this afternoon. I was cruising by the magazine aisle at the grocery store and picked up the new Maxim magazine (it has a new owner and I was curious to see what changes he'd made). Flipping through, I came across an ad featuring an attractive woman posing in front of a sports car. My first thought was "My wife would look great in that outfit".

My second (and more pronounced) thought was "Holy shit, is that the new Lamborghini Countach?!?!?!"

Is "car lust" a bad thing?   ;D

Punk Monk

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Re: Re-Boot Camp Journal
« Reply #64 on: December 28, 2015, 12:38:34 AM »
Man! It's been a tough Christmas.

My mother-in-law is visiting from out of town all week (which in and of itself isn't a bad thing...she's awesome).  But my wife, being the old fashioned girl she is, has enacted a "No hanky panky" policy while her mom's here.

And sadly, this forced me to hole up one night when they were both asleep and go solo (though without porn or any outside visual stimuli). All I thought of was my my hot little yet insanely frustrating wife.

Then about four days later, I had an incredibly erotic dream about her...which was a great outlet. But it left me so horny the following day, I literally thought I was going to explode!

At least my lust seems focused in the right direction.

But alas, alack and a chicken a-la king...my mother-in-law doesn't head home until Tuesday!

It's going to be a long two days...
« Last Edit: December 28, 2015, 12:40:41 AM by Punk Monk »

Leon

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Re: Re-Boot Camp Journal
« Reply #65 on: December 28, 2015, 10:49:16 AM »
You're doing great, Punk Monk! Use that Tuesday as a reward day, for holding out. Make it really special between you and her. In the meanwhile, just ride out the urges when they come- as they're like waves of the ocean. They rise and then subside, and if you don't respond to them, you're the better man for it.

Be well.

Punk Monk

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Re: Re-Boot Camp Journal
« Reply #66 on: December 31, 2015, 04:41:09 PM »
Thanks for the kind words, Leon. But I think I screwed myself (both literally and figuratively).

I couldn't help it. I just had to fly solo and "take care of myself" Sunday night...all the while thinking about my lovely bride. But it just wasn't really enjoyable (which is actually not a bad thing).

And even though we were finally able to get the Mother-in-Law home safely Tuesday, the Missus and I weren't able to get it on until today (work and schedules and such).

While I could get it up, I didn't last as long as I normally do. And subsequently, was not able to come.

To top it off, she's just got a visit from her monthly friend. Although she's game for another try tonight (ring in the New Year!), I know the store will be closing shortly.

I wonder if that had something to do with it. Maybe I felt the pressure to blow my load ("It has to be now or you won't get another chance until next week!").

Or maybe it's been spending too much time in my head.

One thing's for sure, the REAL thing is way better than the virtual stuff. As long as I can keep that in my mind and heart, healthy sex should be on its way...

Punk Monk

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Re: Re-Boot Camp Journal
« Reply #67 on: January 08, 2016, 02:36:29 PM »
My wife reached seven months of sobriety. Inspired by her discipline, I decided to enact my own "Hands Off Myself" policy.

While I've been able to resist porn or actively searching for stimulating imagery, I've still been "going solo" when The Missus and I couldn't have sex (due to relative and/or "Monthly Friend" visits).

And as much as I hate to admit it, The "Spank Bank" memory Rol-a-Dex almost has the same effect as porn.  It creates a fantasy scenario that can never actually be achieved. And regardless of where the imagery comes from, it still results in a dissociative relationship with reality.

So during my period of "Sobriety", I played close attention to what was going on in my head.

The first day or two, there was an inexplicable irritation. I chalk this up to being a mild form of withdrawal.

The next couple of days, I noticed an increase in the lust levels. And I found myself looking at members of the Fairer Sex with just enough lasciviousness to be off-putting, but not flat out creepy.  During this phase, temptations were high. But inspired by my wife, I stuck to my guns (by not touching my pistol :) ).

And then...it stopped.  No cravings. No lust. No irritation. Just...balance.  In fact, I was worried something was wrong. So much time had been spent thinking about/worrying about/obsessing about sex that I wondered if my Libido packed up its things and moved to Sweden.  But one kiss from the Missus got the Little Monk up and about. And I thought..."So this is how it's suppossed to work! Feels good!"

I guess the point is that if you can make it past that first phase - whether it's a day, a week or a month - it's pretty much all down hill from there.

But in the meantime, if I may paraphrases The Georgia Satellites: "Don't you hand yourself lies and keep yo' hands to yo' self!"

Punk Monk

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Re: Re-Boot Camp Journal
« Reply #68 on: January 10, 2016, 05:52:56 PM »
The lingering effects of porn/PIED are still with me.

After an eight day hiatus, the Missus and I finally got our groove on. And it was wonderful! For about two minutes. Then I instantly went into my head and went soft. The weird thing is that there was absolutely no reason to! She was as gorgeous and sexy as ever! But it was just...reflex. I'm just used to doing that to get myself off.

Plus, I think I was worried about ejactulating. So I put pressure on myself. Fortunately, we worked through it and the Little Monk was able to stand on his own and do his thing a little later. I'm very lucky to have such a patient wife

I wish there was some magic I could do to stop me from using the mental Rol-a-Dex. But the only solution is..."Don't".

Don't worry about getting off. Don't think about anything else.

One of my New Year's resolutions is to work on being more in the present. Pretty sure that'll help with this problem. After all, why think about a porn scenario when I can star in my own?

So...this year, my motto will be "Just screw it and do it!"

Punk Monk

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Re: Re-Boot Camp Journal
« Reply #69 on: January 16, 2016, 05:21:51 PM »
Didn't listen to my own advice from the last post.

It was still a bit touch and go with the missus this afternoon.  Managed to make it happen, but I spent WAY too much time in my head than on her body.

I know that I'm:

  • Putting too much pressure on myself to finish.
    Instantly going to the my comfort zone (i.e. the Mental Rol-A-Dex) to help. Spoiler alert: it doesn't help.
    Not staying in the present.
    Holding off so she finishes before me.

The one thing I'm not doing is just laying back and enjoying myself.  That'll bring relaxation. Which in turn, will bring good results.

My wife lectured me on going into my head ("Don't do that"). And she prescribed the best solution. We'll just have to have more sex.

My kind of doctor!

Leon

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Re: Re-Boot Camp Journal
« Reply #70 on: January 17, 2016, 09:38:58 AM »
Didn't listen to my own advice from the last post.

It was still a bit touch and go with the missus this afternoon.  Managed to make it happen, but I spent WAY too much time in my head than on her body.

I know that I'm:

  • Putting too much pressure on myself to finish.
    Instantly going to the my comfort zone (i.e. the Mental Rol-A-Dex) to help. Spoiler alert: it doesn't help.
    Not staying in the present.
    Holding off so she finishes before me.

The one thing I'm not doing is just laying back and enjoying myself.  That'll bring relaxation. Which in turn, will bring good results.

My wife lectured me on going into my head ("Don't do that"). And she prescribed the best solution. We'll just have to have more sex.

My kind of doctor!

Good doctor!

My bad habits before affected me somewhat during sex, like, I'd prematurely ejaculate sometimes, or struggled to have good control. But, it was actually this place that gave me a fear of E.D. a while back, and as a result had performance issues.

For me, getting out of my head was also very important- not so much because I was thinking of other women, but because I had to get away from thinking about my own performance. I started to refuse any thought about what if I go soft, etc..., I would just strongly affirm to myself that I would stay strong, and finish strong.

Most times I focus on my wife finishing first. I've been mostly in the moment also, more and more. One thing I'll do, to be honest, Punk Monk, is- if I'm concerned about going soft, I'll quickly conjure up an image- and it helps me, but my over all intent is to make sure she (my wife) is pleased. Because if lil' Jimmy (not his actual name, lol...) goes soft, then aint no one getting pleased... It's important enough for me to do that sometimes, or there's other scenes I sometimes visualize (from nature) that help (oddly enough) her to orgasm. This may sound strange, but imagining lightning striking a rock seems to do it for her, lol... but she's unaware that I'm focusing on that in the moment, though I've told her before.

Bottom line, and I think you'd agree, sex is very spiritual- and so, we may use our minds during the act- and I think it's good to move away from the rolladex, and experiment with different scenarios.

Be well.

Punk Monk

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Re: Re-Boot Camp Journal
« Reply #71 on: January 17, 2016, 10:53:02 PM »
For me, getting out of my head was also very important- not so much because I was thinking of other women, but because I had to get away from thinking about my own performance. I started to refuse any thought about what if I go soft, etc..., I would just strongly affirm to myself that I would stay strong, and finish strong.

Thanks, Leon! I really like that last part. Think I'll give that a shot.

Quote
Most times I focus on my wife finishing first.


I have tried that. But my wife also has trouble finishing (we chalk it up to some of the meds she's on). So on the plus side, she's very sympathetic to Our Cause. She also encourages me to finish (because I think the sneaky little minx is trying to get preggers...which is also putting a little pressure on me).

Quote
Bottom line, and I think you'd agree, sex is very spiritual- and so, we may use our minds during the act- and I think it's good to move away from the rolladex, and experiment with different scenarios.

Indeed! Thanks for the advice, ideas and the pep talk.

Leon

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Re: Re-Boot Camp Journal
« Reply #72 on: January 17, 2016, 11:23:37 PM »
You're welcome, P.M., grateful if I can be of service.

Punk Monk

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Re: Re-Boot Camp Journal
« Reply #73 on: January 24, 2016, 04:22:31 PM »
My wife surprised me this afternoon by wandering into the living room with nothing on but panties.

Thankfully, the guests had just left.

Nah. I'm kidding.

They were still there.   ;D

Okay...none of that happened expect the missus's surprise. I was still a bit bugged with performance anxiety, but I put some of Leon's advice into a mantra; "I'll start strong, stay strong and finish strong (and doggone it...people like me!)"

I must say...it helped tremendously! However, when I felt some of the signs of a softening, I did duck into my head for a second (I even tried the lightening striking a rock visual...didn't quite do it for me). This time, it wasn't a fantasy, so much as  memory of something the missus did a few minutes earlier that I found really sexy. After that, I could stay in the moment and finish strong.

The goal, of course, is to completely refrain from calling up any imagery for help. So right now...I still need the life jacket. But at least I didn't need it for long.

I'd call that progress.

Monk.

Leon

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Re: Re-Boot Camp Journal
« Reply #74 on: January 24, 2016, 05:19:15 PM »
Yes! Definitely progress.

(...and doggone it...people like me!) LOL!