Author Topic: A Brief Note on Pornosexuality  (Read 14434 times)

Vincent

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Re: A Brief Note on Pornosexuality
« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2015, 04:12:32 AM »
Quote
Womankind doesn't want an all sugar-coated & honey-drenched male species, do they? Rough edges make us human and male... but even more so does respect and appreciation. The balance is important and my personal goal for recovery is finding exactly this balanced state.

I think that nailed it.
I can look at my GF with dirty thoughts in mind, if that is not the only thing I do. Men don't have to chasten themselves for having sexual thoughts, they just have to start to discover that those are but a fraction of their sentiment towards women.
Sex may be important. But to feel appreciated and respected is a more fundamental need of the "social being" that we are.


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Gracie

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Re: A Brief Note on Pornosexuality
« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2015, 07:19:48 AM »
Wanting things different in bed and enjoying them should not be objectification.  It should be a couple that cares enough about each other to trust and share the different things they like.  If the female partner likes "rough" sex, that means she trusts you with that aspect of her sexuality.  If you say she is objectifying herself then you are looking at her through porn eyes not love eyes.  We all have certain parts of our bodies we like our partner to touch with what ever touch we guide them to use.  That does not mean that the body part is an object, it is part of the shared sexual intimacy. 

Each person, knowing what sexually excites there partner, has the opportunity to participate in that sexually exciting experience.  The beauty of intimacy is they we choose to participate.  I know that my husband enjoys certain things that men sometimes do but not all men do.  Some of these things are things that woman do not necessarily like.  I enjoy them.  When he rebooted we talked about if certain things seemed porny or were they part of what we did because we had mutual enjoyment.  Mutual enjoyment stayed porny did not.  And yes we actually discussed them. 

In the middle of his porn use, if I indicated I wanted sex, he would ask if he missed a signal.  That is objectification at its finest.  The porn brain is what allows the objectification of life partners.  Me telling my husband I enjoy him looking at my body is not me objectifying.  It is mutually intimate.

jkkk

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Re: A Brief Note on Pornosexuality
« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2015, 07:44:17 AM »
It is perfectly natural to check out your partner. 

Checking out your partner isn't the problem.  Looking at your partner sexually isn't the problem.  The problem arises when that is all you do, or when all you do is look at her body, and it replaces active love making.

When I say lovemaking, I don't just mean sex, I am referring to everything that precedes sex as well.  The engagement through kissing and touching, gazing into eachothers eyes, long drawn out foreplay.

Porn is the death of that. 

Challenged is right in his assertion that there is a line between appreciating your partner's body and objectifying it.  I, as a recovering addict, would recommend paying attention to how your non-addicted partner looks at you for a model of what is healthy and what isn't.

My fiancee may be too far on the other side, but she is closer to healthy than I am and that is what is important.

It really comes down to frequency and variety at the end of the day.

It is natural to want to look at your partner's breasts, and if your eyes are drawn there at some random moment, then occasionally it is fine.

But she would also like it if your eyes were gravitated towards her own just as frequently, as well as to her hair, her face, her nose, anything else other than what is sexual.

There will be moments when my fiancee tells me, "Rich, you are staring at me."  I respond that I am gazing at her lovingly, she catches me in the lie and shows me what a loving gaze looks like.

I do know the difference, but it is so easy to forget to look at your partner lovingly, especially when you have a porn addiction. 

My fiancee showed me what my objectifying stare looked like and it was truly frightening.  Dead eyes, no expression. 

Which, perhaps is the biggest, most significant characteristic of objectification.  There is no connection, there is no expression on your face.  The porn stare is truly frightening and disgusting.

If you find yourself looking at your partner's breasts, at least have some sort of expression of appreciation or even attraction on your face.  Anything but the blank stare.

There is an old saying that if you want to remember to do something every day, you have to do it every day.

Maybe the same thing is true of attraction.  Maybe, in order to be actively connected and attracted to your spouse, you have to show it on your face, in order for your brain to say, "hey, I really love this woman.....and she has a nice body."

We men are so literal all of the time.  When our partner yells at us for looking down her shirt, we think she is yelling at us for looking at her breasts.

No!  She is yelling at us for reducing her to her breasts.

There is a big difference.  She isn't mad at us for being attracted to her, she is mad at us for objectifying her.  It is our job to find that line.

The last thing I want to say really reiterates what I said before about controlling how you look.  It is even more important to control what you do.

I intentionally mentioned the moment where my fiancee opened her robe and I just stared, because it so clearly illustrates the passivity that results from porn use.

Instead of reacting to her obvious signals, I just stared at her.  Perhaps the most significant step we can take in reconnecting with our partner, aside from the obvious step of getting rid of porn and masturbation, is in not allowing ourselves to EVER be passive.

When we make love, we make love actively.  We engage our partner, we make love with her, not to her. 

I agree with every single word here.


Given the variety of the answers and viewpoints in this topic, let me share a few thoughts. Some of them general in nature, some of them specifically about the issue discussed here. Some initial statements may sound simplistic but I still think it's important to keep them in mind.


Number one - I think not all in this community must agree on everything. That said, I firmly believe that a variety of opinions is a huge VALUE of this place.

Number two - every guy here has different problems, everyone has a tad different addiction (and some may just not be addicted, but only suffer from PIED and are here to treat that problem). I know objectification is a serious one for me, I know it for some time and by comparing my experiences with many of the guys here I came to the conclusion that at least in that field I have an acute problem. The word "pornosexuality" is in my view very appropriate in describing the problem (to me it is an example of how a well-blend word grasps a complicated problem). To me it just seems that some guys simply cannot relate to what I tell about my problem with objectification. Some would probably even think that it really doesn't sound like a problem. And I'm on blaming them! I really would not like anyone here to have those kind of excruciating, intrusive thoughts that come to my mind as a result of this problem (which BTW in my view is somewhat OCD-like). The beauty of this community is that everyone can find help. HumbleRich, with the enlightment has shined on him (God bless!) in analyzing this issue, provides that help for me and many other guys, whose addiction developed in a similar way and who found themselves in life situations, where this is an issue.

Number three - everyone is in a different situation/relationship with a different person. For instance, I think that this thread as primary value for people in long-term relationships. Why? It seems to me that the whole problem with objectification/pornosexuality in a relationship may start particularly there where initial overwhelming falling-in-love phase is over. And it is over for many of those commenting here (I know my wife for... 12 years this September, and I fell in love with her the first time I saw her) - it's scientifically proven that this phase has a certain time span after which the brian stops squirting the same amount of chemicals at the mere sight of person you fell in love with. Now I don't mean, and spare me those comments, that the feeling of being in love is over, I just say it changes, it has a different shade, a different taste. Not better or worse - sometimes much better as the initial phase can be quite dramatic - but just different. And once you are in this kind of relationship you deal with the person you have there (sorry for the blunt wording, but it's not far from truth to me) and this person is unique. Sometimes she (if that's a woman) may be outgoing in nature to people, but demanding a lot of attention and gentleness in treatment. Sometime she might be an introvert who resembles a quite mouse but turns into a dominating lustful person in bed. Everything's great. She may (and some say 99% she will) change her taste in time. She might want to be treated gently in her 20s, but start to like it rough in her 30s. The factors are countless: health, kids, money problems, work problems, no problems. There is no "one size fits all" model.

Number four - I still think that the genuine thought with which HumbleRich started this thread holds true in all cases. Why? Because pornosexuality turn on YOURself. We are not talking if the girls like it rough here. If she does, she will tell you or you may ask. You will communicate. Where there is genuine communication and real contact, pornosexuality has no access.

Porn isn't that original. It depicts things that people did for thousands of years. Yes, maybe there are some genres that were "invented" but I'm really not sure that it was so many of them. If that's true, then it might be that people that "did it" did so voluntarily. I mean - why not? The problem with porn is that through proliferation of all these types of sex, acts, movements, fetishes and with the people glued to their screens, people are starting to believe this is how sex looks like and how EVERYONE like it. This is how women look like and what they like. This is how men look like and what they like (this point keeps getting omitted, but I'm sure a few guys developed problems from viewing porn and living to learn that without a penis of the size they saw in P films they have no chances of satisfying their partners).

Someone who has been exposed to all that from a very young age, for a very long time and with NO ALTERNATIVE (as I have been and HumbleRich too - I read this story and there are striking similarities) in any real relationships or sex with real women has their brain filled with P. A pornosexual brain so to speak. It's a fact! Now getting to know a real girl, starting and maintaining a relationship, starting to have sex in that relationship is just a shocking thing for us. Simple as that. It is absolutely impossible to take this pornosexuality into a relationship and maintain it healthy (with a healthy person I should say, because maybe two addicts could, but I have shivers from the mere thought of how that painful may be).

And this really goes regardless of the act if that woman has a body similar to these you can find in P films (I already read several testimonies of guys here who were in such relationships and still they were not satisfied, "something was missing", the same problem persisted) or whether she likes to have it like in the P films. Because pornosexuality is about closing one's ability to communicate and be in touch - with oneself and one's partner. And even if that girl likes you looking at her and objectifying her, would she really like to have it all time, as guys with pornosexuality tend to do? Come on.

Rockit

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Re: A Brief Note on Pornosexuality
« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2015, 10:53:00 AM »
Okay, you guys are clearly people I need to chat to more. This entire topic has really helped me today. Thanks so much.

(Probably because I can see myself in so many of those comments.)
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challenged

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Re: A Brief Note on Pornosexuality
« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2015, 11:12:22 AM »
Excellent discussion! Our culture today, due to the internet and other things, relies so much on soundbites and bromides and dogma, often to the exclusion of reasoned analysis and a respectful dialogue regarding alternative points of view or different ways of looking at an issue.  This thread is a great example about how different points of view on a potentially difficult topic, and different backgrounds and personal experiences, can be shared in a respectful manner, leading to everyone being educated about both the issue and our fellow forum members.

Well done.  Thanks to all for your thoughts and to HR for raising the topic. :)
« Last Edit: March 04, 2015, 11:17:12 AM by challenged »

Vincent

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Re: A Brief Note on Pornosexuality
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2015, 11:31:06 AM »
brilliantly expressed :)

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HumbleRich

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Re: A Brief Note on Pornosexuality
« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2015, 05:48:34 AM »
Actually, my fiancee has expressed interest in rough sex, although she does enjoy the sex we have now.  But how do you learn rough sex without watching porn? 

Great input.  I appreciate it all!
« Last Edit: March 05, 2015, 06:51:24 PM by HumbleRich »

jkkk

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Re: A Brief Note on Pornosexuality
« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2015, 06:17:47 AM »
Actually, my fiancee has expressed interested in rough sex, although she does enjoy the sex we have now.  But how do you learn rough sex without watching porn? 

Great input.  I appreciate it all!

You can learn rough sex without watching porn. Even if you had to watch it, you watched enough to know by now.

Vincent

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Re: A Brief Note on Pornosexuality
« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2015, 06:34:58 AM »
JKKK has a point there.
And further. Sex is "presumably" nothing that we actually "learn". It is an instinctive action. I would go as far as to say that the mood, the level of horniness and the attraction towards the person (sexual stimuli, not emotional) negotiate the level of "roughness" or "intensity" of the sexual act. I don't think that soft and slow sex is the "real sex".

Porn may be a fetish/extreme fantasy/perversion etc. of sexual action. But it all derived from somebody's experience and thus is something that has come from somewhere.

So my 2 cents are: you don't learn rough sex or slow sex. you know sex and you develop your "style" with and through the experiences, preferences etc. of your partners and you own desires.

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jkkk

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Re: A Brief Note on Pornosexuality
« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2015, 07:30:08 AM »
And further. Sex is "presumably" nothing that we actually "learn". It is an instinctive action. I would go as far as to say that the mood, the level of horniness and the attraction towards the person (sexual stimuli, not emotional) negotiate the level of "roughness" or "intensity" of the sexual act. I don't think that soft and slow sex is the "real sex".

Porn may be a fetish/extreme fantasy/perversion etc. of sexual action. But it all derived from somebody's experience and thus is something that has come from somewhere.

So my 2 cents are: you don't learn rough sex or slow sex. you know sex and you develop your "style" with and through the experiences, preferences etc. of your partners and you own desires.

I totally agree. And I must say, that personally I really didn't yet "develop" a style... I still feel my sex is quite influenced by P. I suppose it will take some time.

Gracie

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Re: A Brief Note on Pornosexuality
« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2015, 07:37:40 AM »
@HR ask her what things she wants to try.  Or what her definition of "Rough Sex" is.  She can tell you.  Our safe word if something is more painful than we though is "OOOOWWWW!"  works every time.

Steam rolled

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Re: A Brief Note on Pornosexuality
« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2015, 12:14:48 PM »
My husband and i read this together and he then seen what he had been doing for so long.
As i couldnt even bend down to pick up something off the floor and he was objectifying me constantly, wearing a bathing suit felt like i had wrapped myself in raw meat and jumped in a lion pit! :(
It got so bad i actaully would try and look dumpy just so he would not objectify me , but he still did! it just felt terrable! But became the norm.

Then porn abuse came to light he was a addict and surprise it has stopped!!!
The person i used to know apeared again, a total 360 within a short period of time, that included reading experiences here! And understanding what effects porn has on a human being.

Though he still loves to look at me and gets excited its not when im just picking something up off the floor. It mutual and fun :)
Life is soooo much better now that its gone!
And he apologized with a long sincere HUG.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2015, 12:18:11 PM by Steam rolled »
LOVE IS NOT LONELY!!!

HumbleRich

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Re: A Brief Note on Pornosexuality
« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2015, 06:41:24 PM »
It's all about self discipline, being able to assess the situation and read your partner, and really respect her.  SteamRolled really hit the nail on the head when she described how she actually started to wear unattractive clothing to get her husband to stop objectifying her.  This is just a guess, but I think that our partners do this because they feel that someone has to do something proactive, someone has to defend their right to feel respected, and it isn't us. 

My fiancee has done this in the past too.

Unfortunately, I fear that society has protected the right of men to be reactive.  "Well, if you want me to stop looking at your cleavage, don't wear a shirt that displays it."

This is a fundamentally flawed way of thinking.  I noticed this when I turned it around. [I shouldn't have to say this, but just in case: I am 100% heterosexual.  This is just to make a point.]

Our partner knows what our flaccid penis looks like.  She has seen it many, many times.  If our package isn't visible in our pants, she still knows where to look and can imagine it.

There is quite literally nothing stopping her from objectifying us, when you really think about it.  So, why doesn't she?  Because she get objectified 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, by men she doesn't even know.  Why on Earth would she objectify the man she loves?

Having said this, my fiancee does check me out, including, occasionally, my package.  But it is random and spontaneous.  It isn't the type of constant attention that so many women complain about when it comes to their significant other.

Actually, come to think of it, even when she does check out my package in my pants, she does it with that charming, sexy smile of hers.  Not with a blank, pornified stare.

There is a line there, and it is our job as responsible partners to find it. 

« Last Edit: March 05, 2015, 06:55:29 PM by HumbleRich »

HumbleRich

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Re: A Brief Note on Pornosexuality
« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2015, 06:50:29 PM »
Thank you for the suggestions about sex.

When I really think about it, what I want is for sex to be something between me and my fiancee.  I want as little outside influence as possible.  She and I may look up positions in Kama Sutra or some other legitimate source, but that is about it.

I do think that sex is, for the most part, instinctive.  One of my goals is to really let go and feel free to express myself sexually with my fiancee.

I have so much anxiety over whether I am doing this right, or that.  I question what I am doing all of the time, and it really gets in the way of spontaneity and romance.

I think that by starting my porn history when I was a teenager, long before I lost my virginity, I inadvertently set the bar not only at an unrealistically high level, but in the wrong field.

Sometimes my fiancee wants slow, romantic sex, and sometimes she wants it to be rough, but regardless, she expects me to romance her.  It isn't a one night stand, it isn't porn.  It is sex with my wife-to-be.

And that is the difference.




challenged

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Re: A Brief Note on Pornosexuality
« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2015, 10:37:42 PM »
Unfortunately, I fear that society has protected the right of men to be reactive.  "Well, if you want me to stop looking at your cleavage, don't wear a shirt that displays it."

I think this is one of those situations where both participants should exercise some responsibility.  Just because a woman is wearing a shirt that shows some cleavage, does not mean a man should ogle or stare.  Men need to control their thoughts and their actions in this area.  At the same time, just because a man should not ogle or stare, doesn't mean that a woman should not show some degree of modesty. Men are reactive, and they also tend to be highly visual.

So, I would say that people need to exercise self-control, and people need not to unduly tempt others.  As a father of two girls who went through the teenage years, I can tell you that sometimes my daughters and their friends would dress as if they had no understanding of the hormones that rage though young men (who are probably even more inclined to look and "objectify" because so many watch porn).  And this is not just me speaking; their mother also observed and often commented on the same thing.

Again, just something to consider, as the issue of what is appropriate modesty can also have some nuances or shades of gray.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2015, 11:36:44 PM by challenged »

Vincent

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Re: A Brief Note on Pornosexuality
« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2015, 05:02:10 AM »
I don't think it is a problem, as has been pointed out already, for men OR women to check each other out. To force oneself NOT to do it basically is also lying to oneself. What we DON'T have however is a "natural" way of staring - at least  not us porn addicts that are wired to LOOK -> don't forget most of our "sexlife" actually WAS consisting or staring!!!

If I dress nicely, I very much appreciate a woman checking me out looking at me like "wow, that guy's hot". I do the same thing, if I see an attractive "female" (sorry for the scientific terminology...explains better that way...)

The thing I noticed is: The fascination of "staring" decreases alongside porn use. Before I used to look at "body". I was whammed by that hot thing there and stared until my dopamine wasn't flowing any more -> and I surely looked like a ridiculous creep that never got to see a woman.
Now the looks are more in the face. I still look, don't misunderstand me. But I look into the eyes of a person. There is a certain limit of time to look into the eyes of somebody, signalling interest, affection or fascination. Too long is more of an aggression. Too short, especially looking away very fast shows disinterest or intimidation. So what I do now basically is, letting the "PERSON" know, that I find her interesting. What I did before was only looking without caring even about somebody noticing. so what I do now we could call flirting, what I did before I would call ogle - not caring what that person thought since I didn't care....

It is a very difficult matter in general. With my GF the relationship is different. To her I can "show" that I like her with my whole set of communicative channels. I DO sometimes still objectify her without even noticing - a very sad behaviour. But I am learning to accept that love can also be simple lying together without touching each other's genitals permanently.

Basically, I think everybody, woman or man, wants to be shown appreciation of him or her. To acknowledge that someone is attractive does not mean that I want to have sex with them in this instant. It doesn't mean that I like explicitly THAT person more than ANY other person. I think there is a very huge difference between attraction to traits/cues and bonding on a deeper level. If my GF tells me how damn good looking that guy over there is I look at him and say: wow, you're right, he's hot. I do that because 1. it then is also true and 2. because these are natural traits. The bond I share with my GF is deeper than those, although also containing them.

The main point when I realized that I was objectifying her was, when I reduced that bond to the level of natural responses, as I was used to do with the factor "woman" in general. "Women" for me were a synonym to sex. After now learning a different way of appreciating the person and integrating it into my relationship many things changed. I am not so lovey dovey any more. The bad conciousness for  only seeing tits'n'ass is gone and I don't feel like I have to be expressively nice in order to show my feelings. Actually, I feel less controlled. And that is a good feeling.

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Hetrix Mex

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Re: A Brief Note on Pornosexuality
« Reply #41 on: March 06, 2015, 10:12:22 AM »
That was a VERY WORTH-READ :) I thank you, Humble Rich


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Gracie

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Re: A Brief Note on Pornosexuality
« Reply #42 on: March 08, 2015, 08:27:49 AM »
I think what is important to see in terms of relationships and the whole objectification thing is:

Anyone can be objectified.  Only your partner can be seen through the eyes of love. 

And trust me even when my husband looks at me in an I want to jump on you right now way, he does not have the same look in his eyes as he did when he looked at women in an objectify, ogling sort of way.

And we women notice this because we want our men to want us.

fightforlife

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Re: A Brief Note on Pornosexuality
« Reply #43 on: March 08, 2015, 10:11:56 AM »
Those are some heartfelt words right there from you.
Thank you, that "speech" ist really eye-opening.
I have not had a partner yet, but when I do, I want to treat her the she deserves it, even in my own head.
My goal is to become clean until summer so I can finally start a relationship. And I´m not trying to get a girlfriend just so I can sleep with someone. I want to give love and take love because that is what life is all about. :)

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Re: A Brief Note on Pornosexuality
« Reply #44 on: March 09, 2015, 06:38:55 AM »
Good for you.  You are doing this at a young age.  Your relationships will be so much better since you are doing this.  Believe it or not we want our husbands to really want us in a sexual way.  We are not "cold fish" as some would have you believe.  Some of us women change because porn is there in the man's mind and that really affects how he treats us and acts toward us.  We like it when we are the only ones, in their mind. body and spirit.

Keep going FFL the rewards for you will be great!

jkkk

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Re: A Brief Note on Pornosexuality
« Reply #45 on: March 09, 2015, 05:40:40 PM »
The thing I noticed is: The fascination of "staring" decreases alongside porn use. Before I used to look at "body". I was whammed by that hot thing there and stared until my dopamine wasn't flowing any more -> and I surely looked like a ridiculous creep that never got to see a woman.
Now the looks are more in the face.

Yes, that's what I observe as well. Oggling and staring simply is a dopamine-releasing activity and its no different to P.

And trust me even when my husband looks at me in an I want to jump on you right now way, he does not have the same look in his eyes as he did when he looked at women in an objectify, ogling sort of way.

And we women notice this because we want our men to want us.

This is in essence the heart of the problem. P detaches us, addicts, from neural pathways connected with natural mating. To recover a natural "wanting" look, which is interconnected with all the delicate and sublime processes going on in our brain and body, just takes a really long time. Especially for those who abused this brain and body for a long time.

I do think that sex is, for the most part, instinctive.  One of my goals is to really let go and feel free to express myself sexually with my fiancee.

I have so much anxiety over whether I am doing this right, or that.  I question what I am doing all of the time, and it really gets in the way of spontaneity and romance.

I think that by starting my porn history when I was a teenager, long before I lost my virginity, I inadvertently set the bar not only at an unrealistically high level, but in the wrong field.

Yes, and this spontaneity is just switched off. What is switched on is a very specific pattern of thinking about sex, where what we watch in P starts to be the "matrix", substituting the natural desires and expressions that we all have.

This really hits on what Gary Wilson made the focal point of all his films on this topic - that sexuality is just such a basic and powerful mechanism that it makes P, preying on this mechanism, such a strong and destructive addiction. It sounds bonkers to think that by watching a video your brain thinks that you're actually spreading genes, but that is what really goes on then.

HumbleRich

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Re: A Brief Note on Pornosexuality
« Reply #46 on: March 11, 2015, 06:46:32 PM »
I think what is important to see in terms of relationships and the whole objectification thing is:

Anyone can be objectified.  Only your partner can be seen through the eyes of love. 

And trust me even when my husband looks at me in an I want to jump on you right now way, he does not have the same look in his eyes as he did when he looked at women in an objectify, ogling sort of way.

And we women notice this because we want our men to want us.

This is a big part.  My fiancee and I just talked about objectification.  She told me that I don't realize how much I objectify her, before listing out just a few examples.  Commenting on how she looks in a dress, as if my approval was necessary.  Staring when she is changing, touching her breasts when it isn't appropriate.

I feel like it is all beginning to clear up now, and it seems so simple. 

She doesn't ask much.  She isn't a prude, she does like me to look at her body when we are being sexual, she does enjoy it when I touch her breasts, but only during sex.

As the fog clears I am really seeing many things I didn't see. 

There is a difference between wanting your partner and objectifying her, wanting her body and objectifying it.

My fiancee keeps on telling me that she wants our sex life to be more spontaneous, for me to initiate more.  She wants to be respected at the same time.

She doesn't ask much.  I have to take it up a few notches.

Steam rolled

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Re: A Brief Note on Pornosexuality
« Reply #47 on: March 12, 2015, 08:40:15 AM »
When your SO is addicted to PMO just a simple you look good in that dress is not the same as when it comes from your SO who is clean of PMO!

At least in my case every comment towards me was objectifying when he was in his own world, and it made me feel grossed out by his actions and uncomfotable!

He admits it now so i know it to be fact because he is clean and his compliments are sincere now not Sexually motivated constantly.

Huge difference!
LOVE IS NOT LONELY!!!

challenged

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Re: A Brief Note on Pornosexuality
« Reply #48 on: March 12, 2015, 02:14:16 PM »
It can be a very difficult recovery process for both sides of the porn equation. 

I think most users on this forum can understand how a wife or girlfriend of a user might wonder sometimes what the user is thinking when the user says certain things about his wife's or girlfriend's appearance.  It is also understandable that it might take a while for these concerns or feelings to subside as the recovery process proceeds.

But the other side of the coin is that users who are in the recovery process struggle with the cycle of shame and guilt, and overcoming such feelings is not only a challenge, but the persistence of these feelings can themselves interfere with the recovery attempt.  Thus, I think it is potentially harmful to suggest that someone who is still in the recovery process (which can take quite some time, as we know) is so mentally impaired or incapacitated that they should avoid giving their wife or girlfriend any compliment on their appearance.  I think that some in the midst of the recovery process could interpret it as, "Because of your past struggles, you are subhuman and you can no longer participate in what amounts to normal polite discourse in a male-female relationship."

So, I think it is one thing to say to a user or a user in the recovery process:  "You really ought to think twice about saying your wife's boobs like great today, because that can easily be seen by a partner of an addict (or recovering user) as objectifying."  I think it is quite another to say, "You not allowed to say your wife looks pretty in her new dress.  Maybe in a year or two that will be okay."

These are complicated issues, and people are different, and have different experiences and challenges and types of relationships.  There is probably no one right answer for everybody and every relationship.  But I do think we have to look at these issues from all angles, and try our best to understand and support each other, and both users and partners of users need to carefully consider how what they do and say can impact each other's recovery.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2015, 09:27:41 PM by challenged »

Gracie

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Re: A Brief Note on Pornosexuality
« Reply #49 on: March 15, 2015, 09:56:47 AM »
My husband and I are both avid book readers.  And we have noticed that books have begun to have gratuitous graphically described sex scenes in them now.  That really add nothing to the story.  So the hook is not just there in images they are now doing it with words.  And these are mysteries and such. 

BAH this should not be the way it is!