Author Topic: Surprise (Read 43352 times)

chiefmitch88 · « **Reply #125 on:** January 27, 2015, 05:44:07 PM »

@Gracie

I would be interested to see some reports on how and adolescent girl might be affected by being molested by older male guardians. Also, the effects of growing up without much in the way of a father figure.

Regarding the relationship expectations I feel there are a few on both sides. She is a codependent and is in the beginning stages of learning to handle it. As you may know it is an incredibly dynamic and sometimes convoluted issue. I am struggling with finding patience while she works through it. I feel that area is where my expectations are off base. I have a tackle it head on mentality. From my perspective, her codependency is the major issue affecting our ability to communicate openly. As an addict, I am doing my best to be an open book while she is the sort that has trouble addressing unsavory emotions or scars from the past. As a codependent i believe she has associated feeling bad with being wrong or out of sorts in some way. I also have my suspicions about her equating her sexual desirability with her own self worth. As you might expect, this theory has been met with some major opposition. I have tried to talk to her about it from dozens of different angles and it always ends in a fight. Probably because, as her spouse and an addict, she feels so powerless that she resorts to anger and putting up walls. Time is likely what is required on my part.

On her part, I feel that her constant need for love and affection while I am trying to battle this addiction is unrealistic. I feel that I am on a razors edge around her and at the slightest hint of my disapproval she is touched off. I feel as though I must be the fairy tale prince charming who put his sentences together with perfect syntax or run the risk of having her pick it apart to find something she can ultimately blame on me. Perhaps I caused her so much pain with my addiction and the associated behaviors that she became someone she could no longer trust. I can get that, but how do we get over the hump to the point where she will be open and honest with me?

Gracie · « **Reply #126 on:** January 28, 2015, 07:30:17 PM »

What happens when someone is sexually abused at the childhood level often is that their development freezes at that time in a lot of ways. You may look at how she handles things and see that she is like a teen in her responses. It is difficult for her to reason or apply logic to problems. Teens are driven by emotion and you may also see that reflected in how she views life. Being abused by people who should protect you causes a major mind f**k. It causes huge trust issues and creates difficulty when the person looks for an attachment figure. Because in the past the attachment was ruined by being used.

So now we come to the porn addiction. She developed an attachment to you as her husband. And I can tell you and you have probably read in my posts, that we feel not enough. It interrupts how we feel about ourselves, our husbands and our marriage. It is difficult to discuss this calmly because of the fear of rejection. And yes as co dependents the fear is being bad and wrong. And all SOs of PAs want to know we are desireable but as she has had the sexual abuse it is even more important. The men who "loved her" had sexual contact with her. And something was chosen over her.

Her constant need for love and affection is so she can feel attached. She needs to feel that above all else, otherwise she feels adrift.

So what can you do? My husband asked me what I needed to feel secure. 1. So we texted. In the beginning I needed LOTS of texts. I wanted to know he was thinking about me. Some were love you. Some were steamy. 2. We started a love song list on Spotify. It was fun and interesting to find songs that expressed our feelings. 3. We went to bed together every night at the same time. and we sleep naked. 4. Kisses hello and goodbye and real kisses not pecks. 5. We sit together on the couch, no sitting separate. 6. We hold hands walking in public. 7. We got rid of Directv he was a Cinemax watcher. These were all non-sexual and made us connect.

We also read things about porn addiction together both for addicts and SOs. These were sitting and talking to each other.

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/08/on-marrying-a-survivor-of-childhood-sexual-abuse/278967/
This is about a male survivor but I think you will see some useful information. I will gather more information and link you to it tomorrow.

chiefmitch88 · « **Reply #127 on:** January 28, 2015, 09:41:19 PM »

Do you feel these are things I can bring up in conversation? I truly believe that if I did it would be met with pure hostility...

Gracie · « **Reply #128 on:** January 29, 2015, 07:42:05 AM »

Just say I want you to feel secure, what do you need to feel secure. Then if she doesn't know or is hesitant, pick a few and ask would this help? Like would it help if I was in bed next to you instead of staying up. Ask can we kiss hello and goodbye. Say I miss holding hands. Ask do you remember some of the songs that we liked when we were dating. Let's see how many we can remember. The non-sexual things will help her know this isn't "just for sex" it will help her attach. With attachment after a while there will come intimacy and then will come sex on a different level. She will notice that it is different. Can you pm me what state you live in? There may be free help for her in working through the past trauma.

Peace

Gracie · « **Reply #129 on:** January 31, 2015, 07:45:58 AM »

I love this forum, it enables us all to get help and support regardless of what is going on. Sometimes it helps us see things from the other side. We finally went to Dr. over the ED. Turns out Dr. thinks it is his heart medication. So we have Cialis. He did not want to use meds because he felt it was a crutch. I encouraged him to talk to Doc to make sure it wasn't physiological. It was good to see him have confidence again. And good to know it was a physical thing. Helps both of us mentally.

BTW I was listening to a Sirius XM program on Sexuality, they had two docs one male and one female. A woman called in about men wanting to "spread their seed" and can they be monogamous. The male doc actually said it was a woman's duty to be sexy and alluring her whole life for her man. He made no mention of the man making her the center of his life. Or helping her feel sexy. Only the woman being trim and fit and sexy and alluring and keeping herself up. We women can't win with attitudes like this.

That's all on my ramblings for now.

Peace

Gracie · « **Reply #130 on:** February 04, 2015, 08:15:00 AM »

I wish that more women participated in this forum on an ongoing basis. There is so much need for them to be here. There is a need for them to all know there is hope. That there is healing. That they can get through to the other side. I have seen a lot of men truly grow and become better husbands, boyfriends as a result of staying to course. The ones that seem to do best are the ones that realize that intimacy is the key. That letting your partner into your world is worth its weight in gold. My husband no longer has the wall up that he stays behind and is "strong". He shares, he is more relaxed than he has ever been. I too have learned that I now have a husband I can share things with and he listens. It has taken me three years to really get to where I feel I am on the far side of this addiction. It has taken a lot of stepping out of my comfort zone emotionally to get here. But, it was worth it. I am glad he stepped out of his comfort zone as well. He has consistently said, "Whatever it takes, for as long as it takes." And he has lived those words.

Peace

lte · « **Reply #131 on:** February 04, 2015, 09:24:03 AM »

Quote from: Gracie on February 04, 2015, 08:15:00 AM

I wish that more women participated in this forum on an ongoing basis. There is so much need for them to be here. There is a need for them to all know there is hope. That there is healing. That they can get through to the other side. I have seen a lot of men truly grow and become better husbands, boyfriends as a result of staying to course. The ones that seem to do best are the ones that realize that intimacy is the key. That letting your partner into your world is worth its weight in gold. My husband no longer has the wall up that he stays behind and is "strong". He shares, he is more relaxed than he has ever been. I too have learned that I now have a husband I can share things with and he listens. It has taken me three years to really get to where I feel I am on the far side of this addiction. It has taken a lot of stepping out of my comfort zone emotionally to get here. But, it was worth it. I am glad he stepped out of his comfort zone as well. He has consistently said, "Whatever it takes, for as long as it takes." And he has lived those words.

Peace

Sadly, in our society, there is a lot of pressure to,separate love from sex. I see this as a source of many problems. People used to search for someone to love and then they had sex. Nowadays, many people have sex early in relationships and hope that eventually they will find a permanent mate among their lovers. I think that this has hurt us in many ways.

People that use this approach may never really learn to,be in control of their emotions or their sexual desires. If they do find a relationship that could be enduring they may not possess the skils required to make it work. It's easy to fall back into old patterns and just move along instead of working out the problems. At the end of the day, these people call themselves serial monogamists, but, IMHO, this is just a buzz-phrase design to mask the reality of a life of incessant wandering.

Gracie · « **Reply #132 on:** February 12, 2015, 09:32:05 AM »

Well I have not posted for a bit. We are doing great. Although the other day we discussed how many areas of our life were affected during his PA. Talked about the effects on us, the kids, doing things to our house. How checked out he was. Those hindsight glasses are like lit flashing arrows pointing out the things that we SOs did not understand that were different and did not know why.

If only people knew, it is like throwing a pebble in to a still pond and watching the ripples go on and on and on. So on discovery for me it was survival mode. My survival, the survival of our relationship. At that moment and for a long time after it does not sink in that this affected absolutely everything. Then as we start to re-bond at the broken places and "renovate", we start seeing the other things. Then sometimes we (both of us) grieve the lost time. Then we make a stronger commitment to this "new relationship" that we have with each other. For him he is surprised that sex is not the most important thing anymore. It helps us bond and we do not neglect this part of our relationship anymore. But, it is not the be all end all. We are important to each other in a deeper way.

lte · « **Reply #133 on:** February 12, 2015, 11:14:23 AM »

Quote from: Gracie on February 12, 2015, 09:32:05 AM

Well I have not posted for a bit. We are doing great. Although the other day we discussed how many areas of our life were affected during his PA. Talked about the effects on us, the kids, doing things to our house. How checked out he was. Those hindsight glasses are like lit flashing arrows pointing out the things that we SOs did not understand that were different and did not know why.

If only people knew, it is like throwing a pebble in to a still pond and watching the ripples go on and on and on. So on discovery for me it was survival mode. My survival, the survival of our relationship. At that moment and for a long time after it does not sink in that this affected absolutely everything. Then as we start to re-bond at the broken places and "renovate", we start seeing the other things. Then sometimes we (both of us) grieve the lost time. Then we make a stronger commitment to this "new relationship" that we have with each other. For him he is surprised that sex is not the most important thing anymore. It helps us bond and we do not neglect this part of our relationship anymore. But, it is not the be all end all. We are important to each other in a deeper way.

The part I italicized is beautiful, truly poetic.

Gracie · « **Reply #134 on:** February 27, 2015, 04:10:38 PM »

I have made it through two weeks of sickness without going down the rabbit hole. This is a record! (during a sick time) And even no kissing time on a regular basis. Which is my favorite. We have truly come far!

Gracie · « **Reply #135 on:** March 04, 2015, 01:20:28 PM »

I would like to share that my husband was on an overnight trip and I did not worry. At all! I am so proud. I did not have to call him a lot or text a bunch it was all wonderfully normal. And I slept. I did not keep waking up did not have trouble going to sleep. This is a big step for me.

So happy with how far he and I have come! Celebration!

jkkk · « **Reply #136 on:** March 04, 2015, 07:49:58 PM »

So happy for you!

lte · « **Reply #137 on:** March 05, 2015, 12:10:08 AM »

Quote from: Gracie on March 04, 2015, 01:20:28 PM

I would like to share that my husband was on an overnight trip and I did not worry. At all! I am so proud. I did not have to call him a lot or text a bunch it was all wonderfully normal. And I slept. I did not keep waking up did not have trouble going to sleep. This is a big step for me.

So happy with how far he and I have come! Celebration!

Congratulations to both of you.

So Reboot Partner · « **Reply #138 on:** March 05, 2015, 05:40:33 PM »

Quote from: Gracie on March 04, 2015, 01:20:28 PM

I would like to share that my husband was on an overnight trip and I did not worry. At all! I am so proud. I did not have to call him a lot or text a bunch it was all wonderfully normal. And I slept. I did not keep waking up did not have trouble going to sleep. This is a big step for me.

So happy with how far he and I have come! Celebration!

Hugs. This is a big deal.

Gracie · « **Reply #139 on:** March 16, 2015, 10:46:03 PM »

Today my husband had some surgery. I noticed how we took care of each other. Without effort. We truly care for each other and I was happy to get him the things he needs and he wanted caresses to make him feel better.

lte · « **Reply #140 on:** March 16, 2015, 11:43:21 PM »

Quote from: Gracie on March 16, 2015, 10:46:03 PM

Today my husband had some surgery. I noticed how we took care of each other. Without effort. We truly care for each other and I was happy to get him the things he needs and he wanted caresses to make him feel better.

That's the way it's supposed to be.

Gracie · « **Reply #141 on:** March 17, 2015, 10:56:19 PM »

I know that it is the way it is supposed to be. But it was not that way for a number of years. We would each say we like to be alone and take care of ourselves / In retrospect, we were no connecting. At All. And now without effort we are there for each other.!!

Amazing how the "normal" feels so amazing@

lte · « **Reply #142 on:** March 18, 2015, 11:06:22 PM »

Quote from: Gracie on March 17, 2015, 10:56:19 PM

I know that it is the way it is supposed to be. But it was not that way for a number of years. We would each say we like to be alone and take care of ourselves / In retrospect, we were no connecting. At All. And now without effort we are there for each other.!!

Amazing how the "normal" feels so amazing@

In the final analysis, a marriage is a very good friendship. Cooperation, etc, are a huge part of marriage.

Gracie · « **Reply #143 on:** March 19, 2015, 05:42:28 PM »

Thanks for those kind words. He is still not feeling well. We talked how his use REALLY escalated when I had surgery. And I said how even now having a solo experience with by my side was not needed. I would wait for him. We talked about how porn was his go to and how he ignored me pretty much every day as I recovered.

Then we discussed the statistics that show when a wife gets ill and needs taken care of divorce is often the outcome. When a man gets ill and needs care the marriage continues. It follows some of the comments that show up here on Reboot. Wife unavailable, unwilling etc. Why the difference? I do not know.

Gracie · « **Reply #144 on:** March 29, 2015, 07:24:23 AM »

We have had some interesting talks on how with his surgery I do not need to turn to porn to handle what is going on. Then we talk about what drove his need to turn to porn even more during that time. And then compare it with the research that is showing that when a wife is ill the marriage is more likely to end in divorce but if the husband is ill the women stay with their man.

What drives this difference? Any thoughts?

Steam rolled · « **Reply #145 on:** April 14, 2015, 01:09:00 PM »

Quote from: Gracie on March 17, 2015, 10:56:19 PM

Amazing how the "normal" feels so amazing@

Glad to hear things are going good, you are a great person and admire your strength.

Quote from: Gracie on March 29, 2015, 07:24:23 AM

We have had some interesting talks on how with his surgery I do not need to turn to porn to handle what is going on. Then we talk about what drove his need to turn to porn even more during that time. And then compare it with the research that is showing that when a wife is ill the marriage is more likely to end in divorce but if the husband is ill the women stay with their man.

What drives this difference? Any thoughts?

Our motherly instinct is strong! wouldn't want it any other way.

hoopvol · « **Reply #146 on:** August 20, 2015, 02:00:40 PM »

Hi Gracie,
I 've come across your name many times on this forum. Just wanted to say I admire the way you are coping and that your support and your posts give many partners hope! I 'll try to do my share as well, but for now I just want to say: thank you!!

Gracie · « **Reply #147 on:** May 03, 2020, 08:01:33 AM »

Gracie here! Have not posted on this, my thread in 5 years. Wow! Have stayed posting elsewhere though. I read through and did not have palpitations once! Major victory!

Had something pop up from the past. We hen all this was discovered by me and we went through a couple of hellish years, I quit doing something that brought me great joy. Taking care of my koi pond. My husband asked the other day about the water circulation and I started crying. I told him I stopped because I dressed in yucky clothes to take care of it and I did not want him to see me in those clothes. And then expressed sadness that I let him take that from me. I was a sobbing mess. 8 or 9 years later. I told him I was mad that I could not take care of it because of what happened. Of course it took a year and a half before I would let him see me without make up after d-day. So I guess sometimes you think it’s over and it’s not! So dealing with resurfaced feelings!