Author Topic: Surprise  (Read 43288 times)

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Re: Surprise
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2014, 08:12:31 AM »
I am able to write today.  Sometimes I have the time but the emotion of writing is too much and then sometimes I want to write but have no time. 

As I looked over my last post about communication, I realized that I have had trouble communicating as well.  I could not talk about a lot due to fear of the unknown.  I cannot think of anything I was afraid of, it was just a generalized fear.  I suppose that was due to a combination of fear of rejection, failure, not being whatever I thought I should be or whatever I thought my husband wanted and I could go on and on. 

What made me realize this was a late night conversation because he could tell I was restless, which is a sign my mind is at work and I am having trouble voicing what it is.  Most of the time it is what was the thing that started this whole 15 years long thing in our lives?  This bad choice that he made.  (Trust me, it is a big step for me to be able to say he made a bad choice)  So I looked within me and was able to talk about when I had to choose to be away a lot to take care of a horrible situation involving my mother and how guilty I had felt at the time and still feel over choosing her over being with him and the kids at that time.  (My mother was emotionally very abusive to me)  And how could I choose that over him.  That situation occurred around the time he started pulling away and using porn.  Soooo after 2 years, I can reason things out better.  Because I do trust he is not going to use again.  I just have trouble with I am good enough.  But like I said, baggage.  Parents said not good enough and even though husband did not say it, in my mind he did so by demonstration.

Another good thing.  I was looking through some old things mostly paper stuff and in there was a lingerie catalog from 20 years ago.  I did ask him about it right away.  And because of where it was, I knew there had been no chance of recent or even years ago use.  We talked about it...and I did not go down the rabbit hole of emotion.  I put it in its own trash bag and took it to the can.  I am so proud!

Sorry this is rambling.  But just the thoughts of this morning.

I love it when you journal, Gracie. You have a warmth and style that is genuine and honestly refreshing.

Relationships are like a bag of wire coat hangers, when you need to pull out just one, fifteen others are hooked on. Just the nature of things.

Have a beautiful weekend.

lte

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Re: Surprise
« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2014, 08:25:10 AM »
I am able to write today.  Sometimes I have the time but the emotion of writing is too much and then sometimes I want to write but have no time. 

As I looked over my last post about communication, I realized that I have had trouble communicating as well.  I could not talk about a lot due to fear of the unknown.  I cannot think of anything I was afraid of, it was just a generalized fear.  I suppose that was due to a combination of fear of rejection, failure, not being whatever I thought I should be or whatever I thought my husband wanted and I could go on and on. 

What made me realize this was a late night conversation because he could tell I was restless, which is a sign my mind is at work and I am having trouble voicing what it is.  Most of the time it is what was the thing that started this whole 15 years long thing in our lives?  This bad choice that he made.  (Trust me, it is a big step for me to be able to say he made a bad choice)  So I looked within me and was able to talk about when I had to choose to be away a lot to take care of a horrible situation involving my mother and how guilty I had felt at the time and still feel over choosing her over being with him and the kids at that time.  (My mother was emotionally very abusive to me)  And how could I choose that over him.  That situation occurred around the time he started pulling away and using porn.  Soooo after 2 years, I can reason things out better.  Because I do trust he is not going to use again.  I just have trouble with I am good enough.  But like I said, baggage.  Parents said not good enough and even though husband did not say it, in my mind he did so by demonstration.

Another good thing.  I was looking through some old things mostly paper stuff and in there was a lingerie catalog from 20 years ago.  I did ask him about it right away.  And because of where it was, I knew there had been no chance of recent or even years ago use.  We talked about it...and I did not go down the rabbit hole of emotion.  I put it in its own trash bag and took it to the can.  I am so proud!

Sorry this is rambling.  But just the thoughts of this morning.

I love it when you journal, Gracie. You have a warmth and style that is genuine and honestly refreshing.

Relationships are like a bag of wire coat hangers, when you need to pull out just one, fifteen others are hooked on. Just the nature of things.

Have a beautiful weekend.
I agree. I want to thank all of the ladies that post here. Hearing from the partners of men that have this problem is very helpful in gaining perspective regarding this problem.


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Remember, porn and masturbation are never the reward. Freedom from porn and masturbation is the reward

Gracie

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Re: Surprise
« Reply #27 on: May 17, 2014, 07:08:43 AM »
Well I thought I would write more today.  I was thinking of what we went through during that first year.  And the hardest thing was knowing that no matter how bad I hurt, he was the one that could heal me.  In the book, "Love you Hate the Porn", attachment is talked about.  We all have a primary attachment figure in our lives.  When we are young, that is our mother generally.  We look to her to provide love, nourishment, and security.  When she is around, all is well.  As we grow, we then begin to pull away and find another attachment figure.

The attachment figure we have as adults is usually our husband or wife.  We choose someone for a lifetime relationship.  Threis relationship is built on love, trust and commitment to each other.  Somewhat like a three legged stool.  When one of those legs is gone, the attachment is weakened.  For me the trust was gone.  By watching a smorgasboard of women, he chose someone other than me.  It matters not to me whether I was the one all the time is his mind or not.  There is not room for two.  And looking and masturbating effectively removes thoughts of me.  He also chose to hide this for all those years. That broke the trust even more.  So here we are then trying to figure it out.  One of the things I had to say outloud during that time was: "I love you anyway."  This helped. A lot.  As we worked on healing, I realized how big the wound was.  It was unlike anything I had ever experienced.

As you know the mood of the recovering person are all over.  There were times he looked like he loathed me.  I felt ugly, used and stupid during that time. It was like he was someone else.  But I kept working and he did too.  He was the bandaid that could cover my gaping wound.  We had to grow a new attachment.  That involved learning new ways of connecting.  One of the things he said was it was easier to give up the porn because I knew about it.  It gave him incentive to change.  He said that he had thought about it before, but since I didn't know, I wasn't being hurt.  He said he now knew the realtionship was very damaged.  We have rebuilt trust.  He knows I cannot ever go through a time like that again.  The only way he know though is because we talk. 

We are now re-attached.  We are stronger than ever.  But only because, we shared what happened.

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Re: Surprise
« Reply #28 on: May 17, 2014, 08:07:24 AM »
Great thoughts, Gracie.  It points up an important fact, porn, maturation and the objectification that accompanies these behaviors are poisonous to relationships. This problem goes far beyond ED.


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SO Reboot Partner

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Re: Surprise
« Reply #29 on: May 17, 2014, 12:59:49 PM »
After all this, Gracie, you surely have the deed to his heart.

lte

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Re: Surprise
« Reply #30 on: May 17, 2014, 01:29:14 PM »
After all this, Gracie, you surely have the deed to his heart.
When I was married I was terribly ashamed of myself but I yearned to be caught and confronted because I thought that this might help me to break free. By helping him and investing in him I am certain that you will own his heart forever.

We men can be jerks sometimes. It's a combination of our masculine aggressiveness, libido, pride, insecurity and our imperfections, but sometimes we definitely resemble the south side of a northbound horse. But we do love the ladies in our lives and we appreciate and take note of the times when our lady friends see through to our good traits. I know that I do and when I get so much as a crumb of sincere admiration and appreciation from a woman I care for it makes me feel very good inside. 

Gracie's thoughts about a primary attachment figure really struck a chord with me. That person has been missing from my life since I was divorced and it was like losing a part of myself. I'm not denying that I deserved it, I did indeed. But I need that emotional attachment and that is much, much more important that sex. One of the big problems that I see in today's world is that sexual gratification has been placed in a primary position and the emotional bond is thought to be dependent upon good sex. Life experience has taught me otherwise. When the emotional bond is healthy, sex will be fulfilling and satisfying. If the emotional bond is not healthy you can read all the sex manuals on earth and it won't do any lasting good. IMHO, sexual intercourse is the ultimate expression of emotional closeness and that closeness is the source of true satisfaction.


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Gracie

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Re: Surprise
« Reply #31 on: May 17, 2014, 06:01:37 PM »
Yes, I do have the deed to his heart.  And finally, two years after the start of this journey, I can truly say that I feel that.  I post here my thoughts on how we got through this.  Six months ago even I was still very emotional.  And I still have those moments but less often.  But they are me not him and they are not moments where I think he is going back to the old ways.

The attachment is a big thing.  Geoff Steurer actually has a video where he talks about this and how it affects couples dealing with porn addiciton.  It is very good.  It let my husband see why I felt adrift.  It helped me understand why I felt that way. 

I still feel it is important for wives to know what husbands are dealing with.  The attachment cannot be there if there are secrets.  When men say the wife can't handle it because of what they looked at, I can honestly say when I found out, what he looked at did not matter.  I did not ask for every detail.  But had we not had an honest conversation and an occasional fight about it, we would not have made it through.  I respect him so much more because he did talk about it and he let me vent, and cry.  He has always said however long it takes, he is not going anywhere.  And neither am I.

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Re: Surprise
« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2014, 02:04:40 AM »
Yes, I do have the deed to his heart.  And finally, two years after the start of this journey, I can truly say that I feel that.  I post here my thoughts on how we got through this.  Six months ago even I was still very emotional.  And I still have those moments but less often.  But they are me not him and they are not moments where I think he is going back to the old ways.

The attachment is a big thing.  Geoff Steurer actually has a video where he talks about this and how it affects couples dealing with porn addiciton.  It is very good.  It let my husband see why I felt adrift.  It helped me understand why I felt that way. 

I still feel it is important for wives to know what husbands are dealing with.  The attachment cannot be there if there are secrets.  When men say the wife can't handle it because of what they looked at, I can honestly say when I found out, what he looked at did not matter.  I did not ask for every detail.  But had we not had an honest conversation and an occasional fight about it, we would not have made it through.  I respect him so much more because he did talk about it and he let me vent, and cry.  He has always said however long it takes, he is not going anywhere.  And neither am I.
It sounds like the two of you have turned this problem into an opportunity for growth.


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PMOVictory

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Re: Surprise
« Reply #33 on: June 29, 2014, 04:55:43 PM »
Hi Gracie

I want to thank you for all the wise words you share with us. Thank you also for replying on my comment on the post you shared with us on what happens to wife's when they realise that their husbands use porn.
The most important thing for any porn addict to realise is that: If you think you can fix this thing by yourself while hiding it from everyone else you will not achieve anything!
This is one reason why this forum is so successful in helping addicts to recover.
It is also helping you to be accountable towards other people.
The most help however will come if you can involve your partner in supporting you. I know, for many years I believed that I can fix this by myself. This is not true and a total lie from the enemy! No matter how difficult it might be, take your first step to recovery and tell your partner that you are having a problem and that you need help. Yes it will devastate her to realise that you were cheating on her. But it will also turn out to be your best support that you will ever get or have.
I wish I knew this before I was caught red handed. It would have saved me a lot of embarrassment and shame, and definitely would not have damaged the trust relationship as badly.
Very important is to then have an open relationship. At first you will have to listen to a lot of blaming, and answer a lot of questions. This is natural, remember your partner needs make out this in her mind, and need to make sense out of all of this.
Be patient! Reaffirm your commitment to her! Be patient!!! Listen, and give her time to vent.
Do not think that this will be something that will be there the one day and the next day it will be history. NO!! It will take time!
 Be patient, Be honest, Be transparent... no matter what!
Then the healing will come, for both of you... and you will be blessed with a wonderful marriage. Free of baggage, guilt, and shame.
If handled with the necessary respect for each other and your relationship. You will end up with the best marriage ever! :)

Once again thank you for everything you mean for this forum!


PMOVictory

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Re: Surprise
« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2014, 07:10:36 PM »
I Posted the first part of my story.

VICTORY over PMO

Have a look and realise how totally lost I were


lte

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Re: Surprise
« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2014, 07:35:05 PM »
I Posted the first part of my story.

VICTORY over PMO

Have a look and realise how totally lost I were
where?


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PMOVictory

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Re: Surprise
« Reply #36 on: June 30, 2014, 02:19:06 AM »
Hi Ite

I posted my story under the 40 + section titled VICTORY over PMO



Gracie

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Re: Surprise
« Reply #37 on: July 06, 2014, 06:55:39 AM »
I just noticed something in reading some of the men's journals here.  As there are posts about wives/girlfriends and amount of sex with them, I see references to "do you still find her attractive?"  Now we as women are told it is not about us, or our attractiveness, sometimes physical changes after having a baby,  etc.  But there it is.  Also there is the question are we sexually available enough for the men. 

First of all, I have yet to see a woman on these boards speak of the physical  attractiveness of their partner.  All of us from the older group are aware of the fact that we and our partners are older.  Yet we do not talk about this.  I also understand that I may be different, but once I chose my guy, that was it for me.  But this is not an item that we say, "I am not able to get excited because well, I just don't find him "hot" anymore.  And yes I get men are visual, but we are too.  Seeing my man in my favorite shirt, or naked is exciting to me, even though he has put on 70 pounds since we married.  This brings me to physical changes when babies are born.  This one is less frequent but I see it.  Really?  We are birthing your child, or we have had children and you expect us to not have physical changes?  I had a friend whose husband wanted her to have surgery to "tighten" things up.  Well there is a point of view that will get us wanting your body.  Please recognize this is often beyond our control. 

Then there is our "sexual availability" to our men. Believe or not we want sex and intimacy too.   For many of us that are married to or are with a porn user here is something to consider.  Your lovemaking changes when you are addicted to porn.  You act different in everyday life.  You act differently at work.  You act differently with us.  You act differently when you have and or want sex.  It is not intimate, it is not lovemaking.  You want the sex life you had at the beginning?  Then take us out on dates.  Take us dancing.  Hold our hands, light up your eyes everytime we walk into a room.  Tell us we are beautiful.  Don't tell us this just to get us in bed.  Be sincere.  Sit next to us.  Be interested in what we have to say.  Cherish us.  Do not disrespect us by looking at other women all the time.  Or glancing and think we don't notice. 

I remember when I had been single for 11 years after my divorce at 21.  A friend asked me when I would know I was with the right guy.  I told her, "When I am sitting in a room talking to him and I do not notice anyone else in the room, either already there or walking in, that is the one for me."  And he was.  And I was. But then along came porn.

I know this is long.  But I wanted to say this.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2014, 01:05:55 PM by Gracie »

lte

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Re: Surprise
« Reply #38 on: July 06, 2014, 08:15:38 AM »
I just notice something in reading some of the men's journals here.  As there are posts about wives/girlfriends and amount of sex with them, I see references to "do you still find her attractive?"  Now we as women are told it is not about us, or our attractiveness, sometimes physical changes after having a baby,  etc.  But there it is.  Also there is the question are we sexually available enough for the men. 

First of all, I have yet to see a woman on these boards speak of the physical  attractiveness of their partner.  All of us from the older group are aware of the fact that we and our partners are older.  Yet we do not talk about this.  I also understand that I may be different, but once I chose my guy, that was it for me.  But this is not an item that we say, "I am not able to get excited because well, I just don't find him "hot" anymore.  And yes I get men are visual, but we are too.  Seeing my man in my favorite shirt, or naked is exciting to me, even though he has put on 70 pounds since we married.  This brings me to physical changes when babies are born.  This one is less frequent but I see it.  Really?  We are birthing your child, or we have had children and you expect us to not have physical changes?  I had a friend whose husband wanted her to have surgery to "tighten" things up.  Weoull there is a point of view that will get us wanting your body.  Please recognize this is often beyond our control. 

Then there is our "sexual availability" to our men. Believe or not we want sex and intimacy too.   For many of us that are married to or are with a porn user here is something to consider.  Your lovemaking changes when you are addicted to porn.  You act different in everyday life.  You act differently at work.  You act differently with us.  You act differently when you have and or want sex.  It is not intimate, it is not lovemaking.  You want the sex life you had at the beginning?  Then take us out on dates.  Take us dancing.  Hold our hands, light up your eyes everytime we walk into a room.  Tell us we are beautiful.  Don't tell us just to get us in bed.  Be sincere.  Sit next to us.  Be interested in what we have to say.  Cherish us.  Do not disrespect us by looking at other women all the time.  Or glancing and think we don't notice. 

I remember when I had been single for 11 years after my divorce at 21.  A friend asked me when I would know I was with the right guy.  I told her, "When I am sitting in a room talking to him and I do not notice anyone else in the room, either already there or walking in, that is the one for me."  And he was.  And I was. But then along came porn.

I know this is long.  But I wanted to say this.
That is a great post, Gracie. IMO, sex is something shared between loving partners, but it is not the central thing in a marriage. Our popular culture all but worships sex, while, at the same time, assigning taboos right and left. Masturbation turns our sexual interests inward and is the enemy of intimacy. Intimacy is where it's at. 


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STR

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Re: Surprise
« Reply #39 on: July 06, 2014, 12:49:12 PM »
When I was a PMO addict,

1. the shape and condition of my wife's body was a huge concern to me,
2. my wife's "availability" for sex (and in particular, exciting sex) was a huge concern to me,
3. I wasn't happy with my wife's body,
4. I wasn't happy with my wife's availability for sex or lack of interest in variety.

Since quitting PMO,

1. the shape and condition of my wife's body is nowhere near as important to me,
2. my wife's "availability" for sex (and in particular, exciting sex) is nowhere near as important to me,
3. I am happy with my wife's body,
4. I am happy with my wife's increased availability for sex and of level of interest in variety.

Over the past year as I have made my wife the only outlet for my sexual energy and as I have treated her like a woman that I am in love with, my wife has actually become much more open sexually and is willing to experiment and have fun in a way that she wasn't before, back when I tried to force her to be like the porn women I used to look at all the time. At the same time, my own interest in experimenting and variety has returned back to a "normal" level, and we have essentially met each other in the middle of the spectrum.

I am inclined to think that most men who complain about their wife's body or availability for sex are probably comparing their wife to an unrealistic standard promoted by porn that simply cannot be met by real women, and as long as men hold on to that standard, they are never going to be satisfied.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2014, 01:19:37 PM by STR »

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Re: Surprise
« Reply #40 on: July 06, 2014, 05:46:27 PM »
It's ALWAYS easier to blame the other person for perceived faults than it is to face your own.  Rationalization is the addicts ally.  I wonder what Tiger Woods was rationalizing to himself when he cheated on his intelligent model wife?  It really has nothing to do with us.  The mind has a great way to rationalize behaviour for an addict.  Those men whose journals you read are still in denial about why they are failing at sex and relationships.  It's easier to say "she's not hot enough" than it is to say "I'm afraid of intimacy with a woman".

STR it's so great to hear that your wife has opened up sexually to you.  We often open up to men we know we can trust.  It's an intuitive thing.  I'm a pretty spiritual person and I have read that sex can suddenly become painful if a woman is having sex with someone she doesn't trust.  I can attest to this in my own marriage.  Thankfully we are now having the hot and steamy sex we both always wanted but it certainly doesn't look like a porno and I'm grateful for that ;)
In order to rise from its own ashes, a Phoenix first must burn.”
― Octavia E. Butler

Gracie

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Re: Surprise
« Reply #41 on: July 07, 2014, 05:01:06 AM »
Thank you for your insight STR.  It helps to know that there are people here that get what I am saying.  I went through a bad time health wise right before my discovery of his porn use.  I did not have the strength to put make up to go to work.  One of the first things he said post discovery was I should wear make up every day.  He knew it was a health issue but did not care at that time.  Now, he is very remorseful that he ever would think of saying that. This shows the porn mind at work.  There were times he looked at me with the most dislike I had ever seen.  It literally looked like a demon was looking at me.  Very scary.  Those were the most painful times ever in our marriage. 

That is why when I see the remarks about wives I try to speak up.  The wife is dealing with something she has never encountered before.  Whether she knows or not.  That is because her husband is a different being.  Think of your marriage as a spinning top.  It is all balanced and spinning along nicely.  Then porn comes in and it still spins but it is a little wobbly not quite centered.  Then as porn continues it wobbles more.  We wives get knocked off balance as well and we are wobbly.  It takes time to get it spinning again.

Lte, Bibbity thanks for what you have said as well.  Bibbity, you are right it does get better than ever in the marriage.  But it takes two as you have done.

Gracie

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Re: Surprise
« Reply #42 on: August 16, 2014, 07:23:14 AM »
Reading through this forum it amazes me how many relationships are affected by porn addiction.  And the kind of porn varies so much.  Some are just the HBO, Cinemax brand, others are internet normal for want of a better word and then others are drawn in by things they never thought would excite them.''

It also amazes me how many men say it is not their wives, but then post about how often sex occurs, or how they look or the fact they aren't an intelligent equal.  If these things bother them, then it is about their wives.  But some wives never know what is bothering their husband or about porn.  So then they are left with a half-assed relationship.  How horrible to go through life without having the relationship of a lifetime.  Both partners are then cheated.

My husband thought I did not want sex anymore. But once I found out about porn and we went through everything,  (you can read my posts) he discovered the lack of sex was due to his lack of interest in making love and enjoying each other.  I had children before we were married.  Then when the last one was out, I thought we are alone this is gonna be great.  Only it wasn't.  Now it is what I had imagined.  I still have moments.  And to address those moments, I am applying the "do not think about it for this day"  I don't look to the past or try to look forward.  I am in this day. And I am a little past 60 so I know I may not get 25 years of being beloved. (That was how long it went on)  But it is so much better.

Men, I challange you look at your wives and girlfriends through the eyes of love. 

lte

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Re: Surprise
« Reply #43 on: August 16, 2014, 07:59:54 AM »
I find it an amazing coincidence that just before you posted that I was thinking about the fact that love is the answer . . . to pretty much everything. I can't think of a problem that can't be helped through the application of love.

Lack of love manifests itself in many ways, greed, dishonesty, hatred of persons different than you, etc. In evaluating attitudes about porn we repeatedly read about objectification and what else is objectification if it is not able se of love. The woman that appears in a porn scene has a story, wants, dreams, needs, and all the things common to all humans but to a porn viewer she may be nothing more than a collection of interesting anatomical bits.

One thing that astounds me about my journey is that I'm no longer triggered by a glimpse of nudity in an R rated movie. If I do happen to see such a sight these days my reaction is to admire the beauty of the human form and I automatically remember that what I saw was a person, not a thing.

This translates well into everyday life, too. There are still cute bottoms and impressive busts out there in the world, but I have learned to see the person, not the anatomical bits, even when they are appealing. In the store, recently, my cashier was a beautiful young woman with smokey gray eyes. I didn't notice her bustline, I was far too busy noticing her eyes and the soul behind those beautiful eyes. She was pleasant and friendly as she took care of my transaction and that was the greatest beauty of all. Not only had I bought a cup of coffee that morning, but I exchanged smiles with a beautiful and pleasant young woman. I didn't take a detailed inventory of her anatomy; something I probably would have done a couple of years back. Here's the important part, I acted with love and consideration towards her, treating her as an equal, not as an object.

If you apply love diligently, the entire porn illusion falls apart. The actresses have a story, and in most cases it's not a happy story. Women in the sex industry frequently came from a troubled background. People that have been mistreated as a child, especially if that mistreatment was sexual in nature, will tend to devalue themselves. If you don't have a sense of self worth, then selling your body becomes much easier to do. Sadly, many of the people in porn believe that their only real value lies in their sexual abilities. Apply love in our outlook and we see them as people deserving of love and respect, just like ourselves. Porn just does not work in the presence of love.


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Remember, porn and masturbation are never the reward. Freedom from porn and masturbation is the reward

PMOVictory

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Re: Surprise
« Reply #44 on: August 16, 2014, 08:26:11 AM »
Ite

What you are saying here is so profound.

I have come to realise that rebooting gives one new eyes through which one can see all of this. Without new eyes there is no understanding to what you are saying here.

Ditto on you wisdom.


lte

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Re: Surprise
« Reply #45 on: August 16, 2014, 08:39:42 AM »
Ite

What you are saying here is so profound.

I have come to realise that rebooting gives one new eyes through which one can see all of this. Without new eyes there is no understanding to what you are saying here.

Ditto on you wisdom.

Thanks, PMOV. I see it as simply attaining normalcy, after a 43 year detour. :) In all seriousness, three insights are important in order to live effective lives. If you are not in control of yourself you are not going to be as effective in showing respect and love for others. If you are not in control of yourself you are not going to have healthy self esteem and, once again, this impacts your ability to love.


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PMOVictory

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Re: Surprise
« Reply #46 on: August 16, 2014, 08:46:56 AM »
Does this ring a bell...?
We should love others as we love ourselves (Paraphrasing)


lte

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Re: Surprise
« Reply #47 on: August 16, 2014, 09:12:07 AM »
Does this ring a bell...?
We should love others as we love ourselves (Paraphrasing)
Lady Gaga? :) Just kidding, mate. IMO, love is summed up in the Golden Rule, treating others as we would as want to be treated. The beauty of this is it is truly a one size fits all solution. Love may mean overlooking faults in a family member. It may involve just the opposite, and cause you to take a stand against self-damaging behavior on their part. Sometimes it's as simple as looking at someone and rejoicing at the fact that they are alive and part of your life. Love dictates that we be gentle, patient and nurturing towards children. It dictates that we respect the wisdom and experience of our elders. Sometimes love simply comes down to a matter of letting someone else be who they are and accepting them that way.

One thing is for certain, if we truly love ourself we will not PMO.


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PMOVictory

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Re: Surprise
« Reply #48 on: August 16, 2014, 09:55:12 AM »
Quote
One thing is for certain, if we truly love ourself we will not PMO.

Ditto

I find loving myself daily, more and more!


Gracie

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Re: Surprise
« Reply #49 on: August 16, 2014, 10:08:59 AM »
Lte and PMO so interesting to see what you have written.  It is also encouraging.  It shows that people can change.  I really thought that I would not endure profound hurt by my husband.  His first wife had sex with a lot of his friends and other men as well.  In my eyes he knew what it was to be hurt. 

I was so careful all those years so that he would not think I wanted someone else.  Because when we got together I had men friends.  Then when caught it was the old well I never touched anyone it's only p orn. But he did.  He touched my heart in a bad way.  It was broken.  He touched our lives in a bad way.  So there is touching.  And touching yourself and thinking of or seeing someone else is touching someone.

The old Ice Castles song Looking Through the Eyes of Love is smarmy but so true! And the golden rule, that was insightful.  A relationship means holding each other in the highest esteem, valuing each other above all others.  I know how I valued my husband changed as he pulled back.  I did not hold him in high esteem either.  But now after much time and talking and touching and crying and holding onto each other we feel all those things for each other.