Author Topic: 43 year old, addict since 13. Finally unchained from slavery to porn  (Read 66373 times)

bob

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Re: 41 year old, addict since 13. Finally unchained from slavery to porn
« Reply #300 on: January 30, 2016, 11:29:16 AM »
You give us all hope Unchained.

Thanks for sharing my borhter.

unchained

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Re: 41 year old, addict since 13. Finally unchained from slavery to porn
« Reply #301 on: February 02, 2016, 12:20:55 PM »
Holy cow! Main stream media finally catching up?  Maybe some light will finally shine on this addiction.

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2016/02/02/porn-public-health-crisis-utah-weiler-thinks-so/?intcmp=hpbt4

4jen

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Re: 41 year old, addict since 13. Finally unchained from slavery to porn
« Reply #302 on: February 02, 2016, 02:16:20 PM »
Hi everybody. Im new to this forum. Im 41 yrs old and I have a porn addiction. I was exposed to it at age 5 by my moms second husband via dirty mags in the bathroom. Didnt quite inderstand it but it definitely aroused me. Had girlfriends growing up looked at magazines here and there. Got married to my beautiful wife at 19. We got a computer shortly after and i found internet porn. 2 crashed computers and 20 yrs of marriage later i started having issues getting hard with the wife. I would try to quit but always failed after awhile. I have been without looking at video porn for 5 wks. Yesterday i looked at a sex story. I tried to justify as im reading that its not the same. I did not jerk off however. Today i feel awful. Like i have to start over. Im so pissed at myself for reading that trash. Anybody else been there? I also feel distant from my wife at times and clam up when she wants sex. Thats not fair to her!

HopeSprings

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Re: 41 year old, addict since 13. Finally unchained from slavery to porn
« Reply #303 on: February 02, 2016, 02:42:03 PM »
Holy cow! Main stream media finally catching up?  Maybe some light will finally shine on this addiction.

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2016/02/02/porn-public-health-crisis-utah-weiler-thinks-so/?intcmp=hpbt4

Dr Chloe Carmichael in my humble opinion is an idiot. It needs saying.
To paraphrase Mel Gibsons Porter in Payback: If I was just a little dumber, I could have been a psychologist.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2016, 02:45:07 PM by HopeSprings »

HopeSprings

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Re: 41 year old, addict since 13. Finally unchained from slavery to porn
« Reply #304 on: February 02, 2016, 02:46:08 PM »
Holy cow! Main stream media finally catching up?  Maybe some light will finally shine on this addiction.

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2016/02/02/porn-public-health-crisis-utah-weiler-thinks-so/?intcmp=hpbt4

Dr Chloe Carmichael in my humble opinion is an idiot. It needs saying. Porn in all its forms is a universal poison.

Chile

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Re: 41 year old, addict since 13. Finally unchained from slavery to porn
« Reply #305 on: February 02, 2016, 04:11:54 PM »
Congratulations for getting back on track Unchained!

unchained

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Re: 41 year old, addict since 13. Finally unchained from slavery to porn
« Reply #306 on: February 03, 2016, 10:24:24 AM »
I have been without looking at video porn for 5 wks. Yesterday i looked at a sex story. I tried to justify as im reading that its not the same. I did not jerk off however. Today i feel awful. Like i have to start over. Im so pissed at myself for reading that trash. Anybody else been there?

Been there?  Every guy at this site has been there.  I spent so much time "there" that I should have bought a second home and set up temporary residence.  You are definitely not alone.

First..congratulations on the success that you have had.  Five weeks is a long time and you should feel pride in your accomplishment and your success should give you hope for the future.

Second...you are not starting over.  Even if you failed and MO'd to the erotic story, you are not starting over.  It may be a hick-up, setback or whatever, but it doesn't take you back to square 1.  Learn what you can from the mistake and keep on moving.  The faster change your mindset from being discouraged or mad at your self to a mindset of seeing both your successes and failures as a learning opportunity then the faster you will feel better about yourself.  Remember, this addiction feeds on negative thoughts and feelings.

I see that this is your first post.  You may want to consider starting a new journal for yourself.  You will get support, feedback and encouragement here.  You will also get some accountability.  Lastly, it helps to get your thoughts "on paper" so to speak, as well.  Good luck.

unchained

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Re: 41 year old, addict since 13. Finally unchained from slavery to porn
« Reply #307 on: February 03, 2016, 10:56:19 AM »
I've been trying to come up with a new acronym for the emotions that trip us up.

I'm familiar with BLAST (Bored, Lonely, Angry, Stressed, Tired).  Later I heard about HALT (Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired).  After giving it some thought I realized that the H definitely need to be in there.  I've also picked up on a couple of more conditions that send my brain seeking pleasure and PMO.  One is Entitled.  Often times I would use PMO as a sort of reward...like saying to myself "you did so good at such-and-such, you deserve a little treat".  Entitled has crept up on me more than once in reboot.  My brain would somehow convince me that my reward for staying away from porn should be a binge on porn...ugh.  The second condition is Ill (or could be Sick or Unwell).  I have medicated physical pain with PMO on many occasions, however, it is usually some type of self-induced illness, i.e. hangover.

The best I could come up with is:
B ored
L onely
E ntitled
M ad
I ll
S tressed
H ungry

Unfortulately, this leaves out Tired (or possibly F for Fatigued).  I've also played with A for Angry instead of M for Mad and the aforementioned S or U in place of I for Ill.

Any ideas?


Leon

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Re: 41 year old, addict since 13. Finally unchained from slavery to porn
« Reply #308 on: February 03, 2016, 06:04:34 PM »
I've been trying to come up with a new acronym for the emotions that trip us up.

I'm familiar with BLAST (Bored, Lonely, Angry, Stressed, Tired).  Later I heard about HALT (Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired).  After giving it some thought I realized that the H definitely need to be in there.  I've also picked up on a couple of more conditions that send my brain seeking pleasure and PMO.  One is Entitled.  Often times I would use PMO as a sort of reward...like saying to myself "you did so good at such-and-such, you deserve a little treat".  Entitled has crept up on me more than once in reboot.  My brain would somehow convince me that my reward for staying away from porn should be a binge on porn...ugh.  The second condition is Ill (or could be Sick or Unwell).  I have medicated physical pain with PMO on many occasions, however, it is usually some type of self-induced illness, i.e. hangover.

The best I could come up with is:
B ored
L onely
E ntitled
M ad
I ll
S tressed
H ungry

Unfortulately, this leaves out Tired (or possibly F for Fatigued).  I've also played with A for Angry instead of M for Mad and the aforementioned S or U in place of I for Ill.

Any ideas?

Hi, Unchained. I've been familiar with the 'Halt' acronym for a while. Though, I would just call this 'Life'.

As long as we're healthy human beings, we'll feel all the above- but the thing is, can we change our usual responses to outward (stress) or inward (anxiety) stimuli? We may or may not be triggered by these feelings or conditions, but so what if we are? We must not respond as we've always responded. Eventually, we'll no longer be triggered, or sent into urges, based on these normal and healthy states.

So, our focus shouldn't be on the stimuli as much as on the responses.

Peace.

unchained

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Re: 41 year old, addict since 13. Finally unchained from slavery to porn
« Reply #309 on: February 04, 2016, 12:47:42 PM »

So, our focus shouldn't be on the stimuli as much as on the responses.


True, but an understanding of the underlying emotions that can cause triggers to arise in the first place can help us implement an appropriate response earlier.

In the end I want both.  Whenever possible I'd prefer to be proactive about either avoiding a trigger entirely or redirect my thinking as early in the process as possible.  That's why it is important to be aware of our state of mind at all times.  When not possible and we find ourselves face to face with a very strong trigger I agree that a proper response is everything, worrying about whether you are tired or not is rather pointless in that situation.

unchained

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Re: 41 year old, addict since 13. Finally unchained from slavery to porn
« Reply #310 on: February 04, 2016, 02:07:29 PM »
Congratulations for getting back on track Unchained!

Hey Chile...did you abandon your journal?  How about an update on your journey?

Gracie

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Re: 41 year old, addict since 13. Finally unchained from slavery to porn
« Reply #311 on: February 04, 2016, 02:07:51 PM »
I am glad you posted Fox news story.  I posted it over in porn addiction.  However other than William no one responded.  I hope that this trend grows!

harry

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Re: 41 year old, addict since 13. Finally unchained from slavery to porn
« Reply #312 on: February 04, 2016, 03:00:40 PM »
You may be onto something with the cold shower thing. I tried it this morning and found it strangely exhilarating for the few moments I was able to handle it at the end of a cool shower. I did some research, and there is a lot data on the benefits of it. I will do it again tomorrow; hopefully, I can add few more seconds to my time. Thanks for the suggestion.


unchained

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Re: 41 year old, addict since 13. Finally unchained from slavery to porn
« Reply #313 on: February 04, 2016, 03:29:25 PM »
You may be onto something with the cold shower thing. I tried it this morning and found it strangely exhilarating for the few moments I was able to handle it at the end of a cool shower. I did some research, and there is a lot data on the benefits of it. I will do it again tomorrow; hopefully, I can add few more seconds to my time. Thanks for the suggestion.

I can't take credit...It's not like I dreamed it up.  While it may sound cliche to take a cold shower to limit being horny, cold showers have actually been recommended for people dealing with all sorts of addictions.

IMO, cold showers are probably the single most effective thing you can do in early recovery to ease the anxiety.  They are known to stimulate your dopamine receptors which help you feel better even though your dopamine levels are depleted because of the addiction.  They help your body respond to the dopamine that you do have.  Cold showers make you feel better from day one and the benefits only get better over time especially if you are able to increase your time to 5 or 10 minutes.

Listen to this podcast by Gary Wilson when he interviews Todd Becker.  Part of their discussion is about cold showers, their benefits and why they are beneficial.

http://ia601704.us.archive.org/3/items/Cyber20130409/cyber20130409.mp3

Harry Molaski

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Re: 41 year old, addict since 13. Finally unchained from slavery to porn
« Reply #314 on: February 04, 2016, 08:01:43 PM »
http://www.amazon.com/Becoming-Iceman-Wim-Hof/dp/1937600467

I've just started to read this book. I recommend it. Harry

unchained

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Re: 41 year old, addict since 13. Finally unchained from slavery to porn
« Reply #315 on: February 05, 2016, 10:47:05 AM »
I've just started to read this book. I recommend it. Harry

I'm all for cold showers but don't know if I'm ready for anything that extreme just yet.

I would appreciate input from any of you other guys out there with experience beating other addictions aside from porn, specifically alcohol.  I'm a pretty heavy beer drinker.  I drink every night after work until bedtime.  It's not caused any real negative consequences and the wife doesn't even complain, but I'm not getting any younger and don't want to destroy my liver.  Also, I've noticed that many nights as everyone else is in bed and I sit on the couch getting drunker and drunker that I'm rather miserable.  However, in the same way that we porn users keep on seeking that one pic to finish to, I'll finish my beer and say "just one more".  In learning about porn addiction I heard something that struck a nerve with me a while back...but it got me thinking as much about alcohol as porn.  It was said that wanting does not equal liking.  That was/is profound.  That is exactly how I feel every night.  I really want the buzz, but once it comes I don't really enjoy it anymore and I'm afraid it will eventually destroy my health.  I've known for a while that I would eventually need to address it, but have been putting it off.  I was worried that tackling two issues at once would be too much to handle.  However, as I learn about brain changes like how addiction affects grey-matter, I'm beginning to wonder if a lack of will power from one addiction would slow down the ability to strengthen the pre-frontal cortex as it relates the another.

Specifically, if I have decreased grey-matter because of alcohol abuse, then it stands to reason that all of the efforts like meditation to specifically reverse the same changes that occurred because of porn abuse may be either slowed or ineffective.  I do feel like I'm making progress in distancing myself from porn but wonder if the alcohol abuse is a hinderance.  In the end I want to be free of both, but decided to address one at a time...I'm beginning to wonder if that is a successful strategy.

Year's ago when I was 20 I got in trouble for drinking and driving.  At the time I was hardly a heavy drinker, just a typical college student weekend partier.  Because of the episode I had to go to AA meetings, DUI school & a county run consultation for drinking recovery for a few weeks as part of my punishment.  I remember people at these programs earnestly trying to overcome their alcohol addictions...and 95% of them smoked.  The smoking came up more than once and I can remember people saying that it was advised that they only attempt to conquer one addiction at a time...that more than that would be too stressful.

Remembering that I decided to take on porn then addiction.  Again, I don't know if this is smart in the long run.  I want to be addiction free and I want to be free now.  Should I not start the process as soon as possible?  Why keep kicking the can down the road?  I also see that it would be very easily to escalate one addiction and make it much worse than it was to begin with as we use it to medicate to fill the void of the other.

Speaking of which, I'm just tired of all this self medicating.  The thing is I don't know what Im medicating.  I have never been abused.  I have supportive loving parents.  No divorce, no trauma.  I've never heard my parents say an unkind word to one another...and it's not like they avoided one another either.  Our family was and is close.  Not only did my folks never miss a ball game growing up, they never missed a practice either.  I grew up in the smartest classes and made all A's.  My folks didn't pressure me...just said "do your best" and it all came easy to me.  I grew up in church and my church life was always positive and supportive...I never felt repressed, shamed or any of that stuff.  I am still close with many kids I grew up with in church.  I played sports, had lots of close friends.  As a matter of fact, I still see my closest childhood friends all the time...lifelong good friends.  I was relatively popular in school...known to be the funny guy and never had problems meeting, talking to or dating girls.  Now, I own my own business and would be considered quite successful by most, have a beautiful loving wife and two great kids.  I cannot point to a single thing in my past that I am using porn or alcohol to medicate away...not one thing happened to cry about on some psychologists couch.  I can honestly say from the first time I looked at porn...I just liked it.  Alcohol...same thing.  I had fun.  I suppose I just never wanted the fun to end and overused to the point of making my reward system a train wreck.  I get really tired of reading stuff like people who get addicted must be broken in some way first and then are on the lookout for something to medicate the pain.  I'm sure that happens...it may be the cause for most addictions...I get that.  I, however, am the poster child for the asshole who has no excuse, no reason aside from being selfish enough that I want to make myself feel good all the time.

Anyway, sorry for the rant.  Any advise would be appreciated.

Gracie

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Re: 41 year old, addict since 13. Finally unchained from slavery to porn
« Reply #316 on: February 05, 2016, 12:34:59 PM »
This is something that my husband has said.  He was a selfish asshole.  He just moved away from us mentally.  When he said that, I said you didn't need the boys and I.  You had your harem waiting.  And if you didn't like one you could just choose another.  So there was no need to stick with us.  Sometimes as a wife I feel he got old enough and just settled for me and our marriage.  It was too much trouble to leave if he wasn't happy.  And I did ask if all that was the important thing, why stay?  He said he loved me.  I asked what did you do to show love?

Perhaps it is that easy.  Show the one you love, LOVE.  That old song, Love the One Your With.  Maybe that is all we need to do.

harry

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Re: 41 year old, addict since 13. Finally unchained from slavery to porn
« Reply #317 on: February 05, 2016, 03:33:40 PM »
Hey unchained,

Thanks again for beating the drum on taking cold showers. I took a much, much colder shower this morning, and when I was done soaping, I turned the hot water off completely while I rinsed. It was damn cold, but once again, exhilarating. It increased my breathing and my heart rate. Plus, my anxiety level, which has been spiking lately, has subsided. Weirdly, I took a perverse kind of pleasure in forcing myself to stand under the cold water. But, i digress...

I do know a little bit about alcohol. I started drinking at 13, and by the time I was in my mid 20s, I knew I was an alcoholic. My parents were alcoholics as well as my maternal grandparents. I am the youngest of 5, and my mother was already experiencing blackouts at the time of my birth. I was bred to drink, and I enjoyed it immensely. I never thought I would have to quit. Like my parents, I was a pretty high functioning alcoholic for many, many years, until I wasn't. Drugs are also a huge part of my story. The consequences of my drinking are spread across decades and are way too numerous to count. I lost a 22 year relationship, 25 year career, and in the last few years I was passing blood daily and having seizures. I checked into rehab at 46 in 2008. It took me two years to get my first year of sobriety. In a few months, I'll have 7 years. I attend AA meetings regularly (3 or 4 meetings per week) because my sobriety is literally the most important thing in my life. Without it, I am doomed. 'Just one more' or 'let's have a nightcap' was how I lived.

When I found this forum and realized porn was a big problem, it occurred to me that I was doing the substitution thing again - porn for drugs and alcohol. I have a knack for finding things to take me out of my life. It's been a life long pattern. On 12/6, I decided to quit porn, cigs (i had started smoking a few cigs a day after 3yrs), and sugar. My thought was, I'll throw the three of them against the wall and see what sticks. No porn, no cigs, but sugar (my gateway drug) has beaten me again. I see nothing wrong with quitting two addictions at once. I know what they say in AA about smoking and alcohol. Why do I think it's ok to quit both addictions? I say this because you sound very motivated. You realize that drinking is not good for you, and may be hindering your brain's recovery from porn. You note that it would be easy for your drinking to escalate to fill the gap left by porn, and you are tired of self medicating and want to be addiction free. These are all of your own words.

You have the willingness needed to start today, or you can go with my personal favorite, "I'll quit tomorrow." Think of all the things you've learned working this program. Think of all of the helpful support and advice you've given to others. You have the tools necessary to begin this next journey. You know you will need to find something else to occupy your drinking time. AA meetings everywhere or virtual online meetings (http://www.aaonline.net/) can help fill the void and give you structure much in the way this forum has. That being said, there are many ways to quit drinking, and AA is not the only solution. You mentioned church - these are great places for support too.

You are not the poster child for the asshole who has no excuse, and in the end, who's cares why you are a heavy drinker? It could be any number of reasons, but the fact is you are. The question is - what are you going to do about it?   

Let me know if you have questions.




Leon

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Re: 41 year old, addict since 13. Finally unchained from slavery to porn
« Reply #318 on: February 07, 2016, 06:26:26 PM »

So, our focus shouldn't be on the stimuli as much as on the responses.


True, but an understanding of the underlying emotions that can cause triggers to arise in the first place can help us implement an appropriate response earlier.

In the end I want both.  Whenever possible I'd prefer to be proactive about either avoiding a trigger entirely or redirect my thinking as early in the process as possible.  That's why it is important to be aware of our state of mind at all times.  When not possible and we find ourselves face to face with a very strong trigger I agree that a proper response is everything, worrying about whether you are tired or not is rather pointless in that situation.

Yes, Unchained. I'm at that place you're describing above, mindful of my emotions and thought processes pretty much most of the time. Of course habit kicks in, and we can coast, but this should be only because we're in a good place anyway. Otherwise, I question myself if my emotions go awry, or negative. This doesn't mean that I wish to escape them (as we did in fantasy), but to engage them. If I need to feel it, I will. Or, if it's more advantageous to change my emotional state or thought processes, I will. I am very much in agreement with what you said above.

My point concerning focusing on responses as opposed to stimuli is in direct relation to habit-change itself. Yet what you describe (now) about being mindful of our emotional states as a preventative, being mindful about what stimuli we face or how we interact with it, is extremely important. In our day-to-day maintenance of a healthy disposition, being mindful will help us to avoid falling into any previous distorted cognitions that lead us toward former destructive behaviors.

Be well.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2016, 06:32:36 PM by Leon »

Leon

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Re: 41 year old, addict since 13. Finally unchained from slavery to porn
« Reply #319 on: February 07, 2016, 06:48:06 PM »
Speaking of which, I'm just tired of all this self medicating.  The thing is I don't know what Im medicating.  I have never been abused.  I have supportive loving parents.  No divorce, no trauma.  I've never heard my parents say an unkind word to one another...and it's not like they avoided one another either.  Our family was and is close.  Not only did my folks never miss a ball game growing up, they never missed a practice either.  I grew up in the smartest classes and made all A's.  My folks didn't pressure me...just said "do your best" and it all came easy to me.  I grew up in church and my church life was always positive and supportive...I never felt repressed, shamed or any of that stuff.  I am still close with many kids I grew up with in church.  I played sports, had lots of close friends.  As a matter of fact, I still see my closest childhood friends all the time...lifelong good friends.  I was relatively popular in school...known to be the funny guy and never had problems meeting, talking to or dating girls.  Now, I own my own business and would be considered quite successful by most, have a beautiful loving wife and two great kids.  I cannot point to a single thing in my past that I am using porn or alcohol to medicate away...not one thing happened to cry about on some psychologists couch.  I can honestly say from the first time I looked at porn...I just liked it.  Alcohol...same thing.  I had fun.  I suppose I just never wanted the fun to end and overused to the point of making my reward system a train wreck.  I get really tired of reading stuff like people who get addicted must be broken in some way first and then are on the lookout for something to medicate the pain.  I'm sure that happens...it may be the cause for most addictions...I get that.  I, however, am the poster child for the asshole who has no excuse, no reason aside from being selfish enough that I want to make myself feel good all the time.

Anyway, sorry for the rant.  Any advise would be appreciated.

Unchained, thank you for sharing these things with us. I'm one of the blokes who you might find on a psychologist's couch- not really now, but I certainly needed to be.

However, what you say is true enough and is the point Gabe Deem and others make here, that many younger folks just get hooked on it because it was fun, or what guys were supposed to do.

So what are you self-medicating? Because you're a fellow believer, I'll offer this possible answer:

In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) - John 7:37-39.

Deep down, we're all thirsty for God, though we may not know it consciously. It may be cliche, but, there's a 'God-shaped' hole in each of us, that only He can fill. Yes, we're believers, but we need to discover that we were created to worship God. Only He satisfies our deepest longings, the one we try to fill with career, academic accomplishments, alcohol, or pornography, all those things will cause us to 'thirst again' (John 4:13).

It may be that simple fact, a deeper longing, a deeper need that may not be detectable on a psychologist's couch.

Peace.

unchained

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Re: 41 year old, addict since 13. Finally unchained from slavery to porn
« Reply #320 on: February 09, 2016, 02:17:13 PM »
Thanks for your guy's (and gal's) responses.  I truly appreciate them.

I've been feeling awfully alone lately.  Not so much alone in my life with family and friends, but alone in my addiction.  Sometimes it feels like there is no one (outside of this forum) that I can relate to.  My wife knows what I am dealing with, but she has no point of reference.  Sometimes I feel so alone that I have to force myself not to cry.

Not to be one to wallow in self-pity, today I reached out, through email, to a local sex therapist (who works specifically with pornography addicts) that has a weekly mens group meeting.  I hope something comes of it.

harry

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Re: 41 year old, addict since 13. Finally unchained from slavery to porn
« Reply #321 on: February 09, 2016, 06:27:07 PM »
That sounds like an excellent idea. You'll be in my thoughts.


bob

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Re: 41 year old, addict since 13. Finally unchained from slavery to porn
« Reply #322 on: February 09, 2016, 07:53:30 PM »
Unchained,

Know the feeling of being alone... I struggle with depression and I know I am in trouble when I am feeling alone
My wife knows what I am dealing with, but she has no point of reference.  Sometimes I feel so alone that I have to force myself not to cry.


The good thing is that you did something about it.
I reached out, through email, to a local sex therapist (who works specifically with pornography addicts) that has a weekly mens group meeting.  I hope something comes of it.

I hope this is successful for you. It always helps when there is someone to talk to. I will keep you in my thoughts

unchained

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Re: 41 year old, addict since 13. Finally unchained from slavery to porn
« Reply #323 on: February 15, 2016, 11:33:53 AM »
So, I wrote the counsellor who ran that only non-12-step men's group for porn addiction that I could find in my home town.  She wrote me back and said the group is temporarily not meeting because it was too difficult to find a time that enough men could meet consistently.

She seemed nice and asked if I was interested in one-on-one counseling, but I truly feel I need to find a group of men who are dealing with the same issues.

I must admit it's a bit depressing because the group sounded promising on her website. Today, I wrote my local SA group to see if I could attend.  I'm not really into the 12-step idea but think some real life eye-to-eye fellowship will help.  Fighting this addiction is sometimes as lonely as being immersed in it.

Chile

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Re: 41 year old, addict since 13. Finally unchained from slavery to porn
« Reply #324 on: February 15, 2016, 01:45:15 PM »
I still remember how discouraged i was when looking for a SA group here in S America and found none. Eventually I found RN and it's been a huge blessing, but some kind of face-to-face stuff is also needed, or telephone contact with accountability partners. SA has telephone conferencing every day and at all hours of the day (thanks for the tip Kenny Prestor!). I hope you can find the right group you can rub shoulders with.