Author Topic: No attraction for real girls - quitting 15 years of pmo - journal  (Read 962 times)

goingpublic

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Where to start ... ?

I've been following your guys' progress for quiet some time. The more I read your journals,
the more I realized that you guys are the kind of community I've been looking for.
It's not even the nofap thing, but in general guys who want improve their life that I
want to connect with.

I read the journals of <username> (<journal_name>):
"username is not available" (Shemale Addiction),
"Z" (Not interested in real women and social alienation (No Porn 2020)),
"squid" (Kraken's journal),
"BlueHeronFan" (Not gonna go it alone),
"Hablablos" (Through another Hell (Journal)),
"Zel99" (NOT GOING TO GIVE UP),
"Quitforeverthenwin" (My journal to recovery- Could use support) and
"wecandoit" (It's not impossible if others have done it).


I most feel the same as the situation of "Z" (Not interested in real women and social alienation (No Porn 2020)),
because I can't even remember feeling sexual desire for a real girl (aside from getting horny from porn).

My goal in nofap is to gain sexual desire for real girls, which is so far still almost nonexistent.
I don't have any PIED, though.

goingpublic

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Re: No attraction for real girls - quitting 15 years of pmo - journal
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2020, 09:28:32 PM »
My pmo history so far

So I'm 29 years as of today, and have been punching the monkey to porn since I was 13.
For the first couple of years we didn't have high speed internet, and I maybe PMOed like 3-5 times a week
with pictures and very short clips of porn, since our internet wasn't so fast.
In 2006, I think, we got high speed internet. I probably slowly moved to 5-7 times per week.
So most days I PMOed, rare days not, and some days twice. Always had a thing for anal.
From about 2010 on I started doing some bodybuilding at home til about the middle of 2014.
Got from about 65kg to about 73kg. Nothing dramtic in terms of gains, but I trained pretty hard at times.
The training increased my desire to PMO. In this time I would fap almost every day. In march 2013 I kept track
of my number of faps from the 6th to the 28th of march. In this timespan I masturbated a total of
of 30 times:

6th to 8th: one time a day
9th to 11th: two times a day
12th to 15h: one time a day
16th: PM but no O
17th to 19th: two times a day
20th to 26th: one time a day
27th and 28th: two times a day.

I think this data sample was quiet representative for my fap frequency during that time from 2010 to 2014.
I also visited many times per week a german image board very similar to 9gag called pr0gramm ("https://pr0gramm.com/")
which had also pictures and short clips of porn (not-safe-for-work stuff). (As of today when you visit pr0gramm you can only see the safe-for-work stuff. To see the other stuff you have to be invited by a registered user to register yourself.)
Those many clips and pictures of porn on that image board also contributed to more PMOs.
From 2014 on I stopped building muscles. Fap frequence was back to about 7 per week with sometimes
a litte less and sometimes a little more. So again almost everyday.

In the middle of 2014 I had built kind of a selfmade fleshlight.
At the end of 2014 I ordered a fleshlight sextoy. From that point on I masturbated almost exclusively
with the fleshlight.
I think somewhen in 2014 I started to deactivate the not-safe-for-work stuff on the image board.
I didn't want to stop masturbating, but found it to be too much and a waste of time.
After that my fap frequency was again at about 5-7 times per week.

In 2016 I ordered 2 other fleshlight sextoys, the old one broke.

From 2015 to 2018 the frequency was getting slightly less settling eventually with about 5 times a week.

goingpublic

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Re: No attraction for real girls - quitting 15 years of pmo - journal
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2020, 09:32:20 PM »
Attempts at getting real sex

I was a virgin up to this year (2020). But I lost my virginity to a hooker
(it's legal here in germany, so deal with it freedom-folks).


It was not that I wasn't doing anything about getting into sexual contact with girls.
In october 2013 I contemplated how I was meeting girls so far in university.
I studied computer science and I still do (now at the end of graduate school to get the master degree).
So there weren't really many girls that you would get to know just from studying.
It also wasn't the case that I were to get a crush on a girl by seeing a girl for a longer time,
which happened to me in school.
The conclusion was for me: I have to approach girls, otherwise I will never get to know any.
So I started reading up on pickup.

I started going out from october 2013 to about February 2018 and approached girls. Through these years
I was going to clubs mostly and almost every weekend on friday and saturday.
So even at the beginning of going out I had already 10 years of a lot of PMO.
I might have a general tendency to not being easily aroused and feel sexual desire towards girls, because all
throughout school (age 11 to 19) I never felt sexual desire for the girls I saw at school.
(I'm straight and have watched straight porn of women and the porn would arouse me.)
I had a crush on girls twice, though.

So overall going out was a quite frustrating experience with finding no girl that I would desire
(which was pretty shurely impossible because of my years of PMO and perhaps my natural tendency to
not being easily aroused by clothed girls as you see them in the day).
So I never tried to get a date with the girls I met, because I thought
"what is the point when I don't desire her sexually".
I still remember that one time I was talking to a girl in a bar for about half an hour and was waiting
to feel something, some arousal or desire, but there was none although she was fairly attractive.

Well, that whole situation messed pretty hard with my head and self confidence.

goingpublic

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Re: No attraction for real girls - quitting 15 years of pmo - journal
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2020, 09:36:17 PM »
Dawn of nofap

The whole thing began for me realizing in february 2018 that I really couldn't feel attraction for girls,
as I managed to be at a girls place I met the night out before where we had already danced tightly.
We snuggled on the couch which I liked a lot and we even got into bed together but I just felt nothing sexual
at all. She was in a pyjama and I was only in my underware, I made no further moves to undress
her or make things more sexual by touching her, we were spooning, though. The whole time I was waiting
again to feel some little damn bit of desire or arousal, but nothing.
So we just went to sleep. Even the next day we snuggled some more on the couch
watching some disney movie on tv, lol.

At the end of that time with her I forced myself to try to go for a kiss,
but explained to her just before that, that I had never kissed a girl before.
I think that pretty much a) ruined the moment but more heavily b) (I speculate) she lost pretty much all attraction
for me or was at least really concerned about that I had never kissed a girl before.
Anyway she wouldn't want to do it. But overall I thought I left her place in good terms with her.

I texted her some days later wanting to make plans to meet again but she eventually basically texted that this
whole thing is not working for her.


This whole experience got me thinking. I couldn't get aroused even when laying in bed with a girl.
What's going on with me?

goingpublic

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Re: No attraction for real girls - quitting 15 years of pmo - journal
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2020, 09:39:24 PM »
Final step in PMO numbness and Self-diagnosis-phase

I couldn't just ignore feeling no kind of desire for a girl where I had been in such a situation with a girl.

So I began researching the web in the end of february 2018. I was googling things like "pick up not horny",
"nofap not horny" and "nofap flatline", but I wasn't finding anything that decribed my situation of
feeling no desire for real girls.

Finally in the end of august 2018, I got kind of bored from porn and found it hard to be aroused by it.

A couple of another research sessions about nofap and porn followed. But I wasn't really finding what I was
looking for. Nobody there mentioned, that they can't feel desire towards real girls.

I also researched "feeling asexual". Googling "porn made me asexual" I finally found what I was looking for:
"https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/rebooting-porn-use-faqs/am-i-asexual/" had a heap of other peaople feeling the
same as me: basically asexual but still masturbating and getting horny from porn.

Now I was convinced that I had to abstain from porn to get better.
For about 15 years I set my bar to get aroused so high that I needed to see the pussy and ass of girls to get aroused.
Not really a situation that will happen to my in real life any time soon.  8)
I also noticed over the last few years that I would not even find the faces of the very attractive porn or instagram girls arousing or wanting to ever kiss any of them. It was like every girl had a man face.
I guess that happened because for years of PMOing I would stare at the girls pussy or ass getting fucked only.

goingpublic

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Re: No attraction for real girls - quitting 15 years of pmo - journal
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2020, 09:44:16 PM »
First steps in no PMO

From now on I tracked my PMO relapses and phases where I didn't care to not PMO.

I started my nofap with a streak from august 27th 2018 to september 10th 2018 (14 days).
From september 10th 2018 to september 22th 2018 I MOed (without porn) with my fleshlight (14 times).

Another streak of 18 days from september 22th 2018 to october 10th 2018.
Relapsed and PMOed 7 times til october 14th 2018.

Streak of 17 days til october 31th 2018.
Relapsed and PMOed 4 times til nov 2nd 2018.

-

Until here I PMOed with my fleshlight.
On nov 2nd 2018 I decided to destroy and get rid of my fleshlights (had 2), because otherwise I
would always get beck to PMOing with them (or at least MO).


So from now on PMO or MO is with my hand and not fleshlight.

-

Streak of 15 days til nov 17th 2018.
MOed 4 times til nov 23th 2018.
Relapsed and PMOed 8 times til dec 4th 2018.

Streak of 12 days til dec 16th 2018.
MOed 1 time.
Relapsed and PMOed 6 times til dec 18th 2018.

Streak of 12 days til jan 5th 2019.
Relapsed and PMOed 12 times til jan 11th 2019.

Short streak of 4 days til jan 15th 2019.
Relapsed and PMOed 6 times til jan 16th 2019.

Short streak of 6 days til jan 22th 2019.
Relapsed and PMOed 6 times til jan 26th 2019.

Streak of 12 days til jan 5th 2019.
Relapsed and PMOed 12 times til jan 11th 2019.

Longest Streak so far of 25 days til feb 20th 2019.
Relapsed and PMOed 4 times til feb 21th 2019.

Short streak of 4 days til feb 25th 2019.
Relapsed and PMOed 5 times til feb 26th 2019.

Short streak of 5 days til mar 3rd 2019.
Relapsed and PMOed 16 times til mar 13th 2019.

Short streak of 4 days til mar 17rd 2019.
Relapsed and PMOed 4 times.

-

On mar 20th 2019:
I begin reading a book with pretty much only a concatination of pornographic scenes in the first part (about 430 pages).
The book is titled "The 120 Days of Sodom" written by a french guy "Marquis de Sade" in the year 1785.
This is definatly one of the instances I ignore this being a intense trigger and read it anyway,
because I wanted to.
(I will finish the book til apr 22th 2019)

-


Streak of 10 days til mar 27th 2019.
Relapsed and PMOed 8 times til mar 30th 2019.

Short streak of 4 days til apr 3rd 2019.

-

Short period from 2019 apr 3rd to 9th: try MO (no porn)

I tried to condition myself to enjoy and want to just MO instead of PMO and
did it being in flatline.

2019 apr 3rd: MO:
I had a dream where I was masturbating in a bath tub in the warm water and I felt pretty good.
Awaking after that I wanted to do this in real life. I thought would not take that long.
But needed to masturbate for 2 hours and 6 minutes before I could cum.

2019 apr 3rd: MO:
Took me 1 hour and 50 minutes to cum.

2019 apr 7th: MO:
1: Took me 40 minutes to cum.
2: MO with handcream: Took me 43 minutes to cum.

2019 apr 9th: MO:
M for 14 minutes.
MO in 27 minutes.

-

Short period 2019 apr 11th and 12th:
try PMO with looking only at the face of a girl: to recondition to find face more arousing:

PMOed 3 times with only looking at face of girl.

Relapsed on apr 12th 1 time PMOed regularly.

apr 14th 2019:
PMOed 1 time with only lokking at face of girl.

-

apr 15th 2019:
Relapsed 5 times PMO binge.

Short streak 5 days.

2019 apr 20th to 24th:
Relapsed and PMOed 13 times.

Streak of 8 days.
2019 may 2nd: Relapsed and PMOed 4 times.

Streak of 7 days.
2019 may 9th:
 MO: took 54 minutes.
 Relapsed and PMOed 3 times.

Short streak of 5 days.

-

2019 may 14th:
Googled and read in reddit about anal sex for a while. Got turned on. Relapsed:

2019 may 14th 15th: Relapsed and PMOed 8 times.

-

New longest streak: made it to 30 days!

2019 jun 15th to 28th: Relapsed and PMOed 22 times.


Streak of 21 days.
2019 jul 19th to 29th: Relapsed and PMOed 20 times.

Streak of 7 days.

-

This is a time where I didn't care about not PMO:

aug 6th 2019 to sep 12th 2019: PMOed 42 times. (One short streak of 5 days from sep 3rd to 8th)

This timespan were 5 2/7 weeks (~ 5.3 weeks). With 42 times PMO this averages to 42/5.3 =~ 8 times PMO / week !

-

Streak of 16 days.

-

Yet again a time where I didn't care about not PMO:

sep 28th 2019 to nov 1st 2019: PMOed 39 times. (Short streaks of 3, 4, 4 and 4 days)

This timespan were 4 6/7 weeks (~ 4.86 weeks). With 39 times PMO this averages to 39/4.86 =~ 8 times PMO / week !

-

Streak of 16 days.

-

nov 14th 2019:

Internal horniness, but with the desire to MO (not for girls):
1 MO: took only 6 minutes (almost no fantasy)
2 MO: took only 6 minutes (no fantasy)

That is very different from the previous times I tried to MO (but not being horny for MO).
I needed initaly 2 hours to reach climax. Later still almost 1 hour.

-

Relapsing again.
nov 15th 2019 to nov 22st 2019: PMOed 14 times.
Well, thats just one week. So whooping 14 per week.

Streak of 6 days.
nov 28th 2019: Try for MO. Relapsed. PMOed 1 time.

Streak of 6 days.
dec 4th 2019: Relapsed and PMOed 1 time.

Streak of 14 days.
dec 18th 2019: MOed 1 time: again only 6 minutes til climax.
Relapsed and PMOed 3 times. Tried to PMO 1 time.

Short streak 4 days.
dec 22th 2019: MOed 1 time: 7 minutes til climax.
Relapsed and PMOed 1 time.

More PMO: 2019 dec 23th to 27th: PMOed 8 times.

-

New year, bitches!

Streak of 10 days.
2020 jan 6th: MOed 1 time: 5 minutes til climax.
Later relapsed: til jan 7th: PMOed 4 times.

goingpublic

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Re: No attraction for real girls - quitting 15 years of pmo - journal
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2020, 09:48:12 PM »
Loosing virginity to escort and first kiss having girlfriend-sex (TRIGGER WARNING)

Also 2020 jan 7th:
At this point I wanted to change things up. I had still been relapsing a lot again and again.
I went and had sex with a escort (all legal here in german kraut country).
The point was: could real sex and kissing turn me on??

Well the answer was: .... no. This girl was really attractive to me. But I still couldn't feel
any desire for her nor get turned on. I lost my virginity with PIV sex but couldn't climax.
Condom usage is mandatory here (by law).

We kissed for a while and I could also see for myself that I wouldn't freak out from kissing
(with no real sexual desire for it). That was important for me to see how I would feel about kissing.
Frankly and very sadly I felt the same arousal (none) as kissing my own hand.
But I still enjoyed it even without any desire or arousal.
I licked her pussy and liked that. I always wanted to try out how well I would do.
Then we did 69.
I was pretty disappointed about getting my dick sucked. It was basically just a tugging feeling on my dick
(blowjob also with condom).
I tried missionary position but couldn't get fully hard, so thrusting was not going so
well although I got my dick in.
She later rode me for about 15 minutes but it was to slow to get me anywhere near climax (I was maybe at 40%).

I really liked her moaning. That is a big thing for me in sex.
I was there for 1 hour. Pricetag: 230€

Conclusion: The last bit of hope and rationalizing that maybe this or that or sex or kissing could
turn me on was destroyed. That is what I wanted to know.

The path was clear for me now: there is no way around nofap. I have to do it.
Otherwise would I get stuck in PMO forever and could never enjoy sex and kissing.

goingpublic

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Re: No attraction for real girls - quitting 15 years of pmo - journal
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2020, 09:54:58 PM »
Streak of 22 days.

-

jan 29th 2020

Visiting another escort for girlfriend-sex (TRIGGER WARNING)

Since I had PMOed 3 times on jan 7th 2019 where I later visited the escort for sex, I wanted to see if things
where different with a streak.

Again, I chose an very attractive girl for my tastes.
Well I could cum, but the main thing didn't change. I still did not feel any desire or arousal.
This time I laid on the bed with my back and she sat on my crotch. We kissed. I touched her pussy
and we started having sex belly to belly. She rode me and we kissed. Probably my favorite
position so far. At first it was slow and felt that this way I probably couldn't climax again.
But other than the previous escort, she moved her hips faster. I didn't take long and I came.
I tried not to cum because it was only about 15 minutes in of my one hour with her, but
I couldn't prevent it. I had planned to come at the and of the session, because now I was even
more desinterested in real girls.
But that didn't matter so much, because I still wanted to get some more experience with kissing and licking her.
And I paid good money so I wanted to use my time.
Now she laid on the bed with her back down and got between her legs and kissed her body going down to her crotch.
Kissing her legs and then the surrounding area of her pussy. This quick foreplay was just maybe 4 minutes long.
Then I started licking her with the techniques I've learned in this video which I can really recommend any
one of you who want to learn proper pussy eating (for real).

(
althoug this is an instructional video:

OF COURSE WARNING : THIS IS ESSENTIALLY PORN

video was originally a dvd and titled "How To Eat Pussy Like A Champ!" with seymore butts, nina hartley and jack lawrence
But you can find here "https://xhamster.com/videos/seymore-butts-how-to-eat-pussy-2603010" for example
)

Continuing with the story.
So I tried to give some her brief but good foreplay and then started basically making out with her clit. Well, it worked.
After 3 minutes she came. She even screamed pretty loud. I was a little bit shocked. Her body jerked a couple of times.
Sadly she isn't in the group of girls who likes to have more stimulation after an orgasm. She told me, she
usually avoids having an orgasm during work. But it was ok.

Later we again were in my favorite position where I laid on my back and she laid over me belly to belly and we make out.
I liked that. She also tried her luck in giving me a blowjob but it didn't feel any much better or worse
than the blowjob from the first hooker. Lastly she rode me again but I couldn't come again even with her moving
her hips faster.

I overall liked the touching and kissing here more, but she didn't really moan very much.
Still expensive but much cheaper than the other escort: 150€.



I got back home and was pretty deflated and depressed. I was still unable to feel the
desire and arousal for real sex and a real girl that I could feel for porn. Even with a
quite good streak of 22 days I could not get into it and
feel desire (although I came: but that was just from the physical sensory input like doing MO).


To feel how my arousal would feel, which so far only porn can do, I intentionally PMOed 2 times that day.
So intentional relapse, I guess.
It really felt a lot different and I didn't feel this way with the escort.


Yet again it has become apparent to me that the only way to get better was to abstain from PMO as MO
(as MO leads to PMO for me).



Further I had also hopes that climaxing with real sex would get me more to light up or awake some desire
for the real thing, but it didn't. Anyway it still part of the rewiring process.
I'm also more confident, that I could kiss a girl now without freaking out, although I wouldn't really feel like it (which would help me in my future dating endeavors).

goingpublic

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Re: No attraction for real girls - quitting 15 years of pmo - journal
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2020, 10:00:16 PM »
Last couple of relapses from jan 31th 2020 to feb 2nd 2020: PMOed 6 times.


Thus far my streak counter is at 28 days, I think.

In the current streak I had a couple of instances, 3 I think, where I would get slightly horny,
but it was still under control and I could stop myself and do something else.

Now we have arrived at today where I spend 6 hours so far writing this long ass first post.

---

But wait! There is more!

So far I have covered mostly the hard facts and statistics of my quitting PMO journey.

I have a couple of things to add.



I want to go over my most important fuckups that have lead me to relapse:

- Pretty much all of my longer streaks (over 10 days) I had a pretty strong urge which I was not prepared to fight due to chilling in the flatline where no willpower is needed.

- The shorter streaks up to 10 days I mostly ended because I wanted to feel good from PMO, which feel really damn
good after abstaining. So I just gave in.

- On the other hand, I learned that after messing up my first 30 day streak (again strong urge out of the blue)
I was very more sensitive to visual stimulation from porn. It suprisingly felt almost like jerking off to porn the first time again (as I felt with maybe 13 14 years old where I had seen an PMOed the first time ever to short clips of porn).
So that was definitely progress.

- The fleshlights ware too strong of a temptation. But I got rid of them.

- One time I wanted to see the vaginas of horses and google images. Well, I got aroused and relapsed.

- As mentioned before, I one time googled about anal sex and read about it in reddit (experiences, how to do it).
Got aroused too much. Tried to resist, but lost and relapsed.


- In general I have the tendency to when I have one good thing to just have more good things and very
weak willpower to do stuff that helps me. So this includes long youtube, 9gag, and
general research sessions on the web, but also eating sweets like chocolate.

---

I'm still waiting for a strong urge to fap, but so far in the current streak the urges have been manageable.

goingpublic

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Re: No attraction for real girls - quitting 15 years of pmo - journal
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2020, 10:03:31 PM »
One more thing:

I'm fairly indifferent to Instagram models and also (in the flatline state) watching porn (for a short while).
Otherwise I don't really have fantasies of porn or thinking of certain porn stuff. Or when I do I don't feel
the desire to dwell on it.

So again I don't want to PMO or MO. But I still allow myself to briefly and with vigilant mind to look at nsfw stuff
(when I feel, that I get turned on too much I just stop looking at it).

-

Another thing: I want to point out again that I have no history of real sex or kissing.
I had my first kiss this year with an escort.

So I have absolutely no wiring for real girls. So, I think, getting more experiences with real girls, kissing and sex,
will be crucial for my rewiring (well, of course, duh).
What I really want to point out with that is, that I might wait forever when I just try to reboot (but it could also
work that I will my desire back by just rebooting and abstaining).

So my plan is to wait and just reboot for 6 months (so 5 months left now to reach 6 months for me)
(this was the time, when gabe noticed first improvements)
and see, if things have changed for me in the desire for real girls department.
6 months is the time when the dna in the neurons by delta-FOS-B change some pathways related to addiction.
(see:
 https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/relevant-research-and-articles-about-the-studies/deltafosb-neuroplasticity-and-addiction/l-brain-buildup-of-delta-fosb-causes-addiction/

for example
)

Anyway, after those 5 more months rebooting, whether it will work or not, I will start approaching girls and
try lead that to kissing and sex to get started with rewiring.

---

So, I guess that was the main things related to my nofap journey so far.

goingpublic

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Re: No attraction for real girls - quitting 15 years of pmo - journal
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2020, 10:27:31 PM »
About me: (or: all the many things I got not and got going for me):

Studying

Since ages I study computer science (CS). I began in 2010 and got the bachelor degree in CS in 2016
(yes, it took me 11 semesters to finish. But at least i did finish).
In my garduate studies (master) I did it again (taking a long time with it).
So far I got all credits from the exams but I still have to write my master thesis.
I have time left until the end of september 2020 and will begin in a couple of days.

In 2017 I chose to pick up another topic preparing for my master thesis after I already got the necessary creadits
from other exams. So I had to wait 2 semester to finish this new topic (called neurocognition). That was
in august 2018. Then I helped a foreign student friend to write his master thesis.

After that I still needed one year of really understanding a paper I had to do an presentation
on and write an essay about. It took me until 2019 to start with making the presentation.
So far I finished the first version of the presentation (I'll talk with my mentor today (mar 3rd 2020) about that)
and almost finished the essay (which is basically just the long version of my presentation about this scientific paper).

So I'm not only fucked up in the PMO area of my life but have also a behavioral addiction to my lifestyle
(internet entertainment, hobbies, and sleeping). But that is more or less the problem of everyone that
has a similar age as us and you guys battle it too.

It basically goes back to how internet research, youtube and 9gag (those 3 in my case) have erroded the willpower to
have sustained focus to being able to study in the first place.
When I started my master I felt like constantly battling to stay awake in university, despite having
slept a lot.

I had really hard time getting into gears with my bachelor thesis. I would go to university but would
get stuck all day just researching random things on the internet. Boy, it was interessting and not bad from
the knowlegde I got and how much I enjoyed it, but it also, very similar to the porn, made working require so
much willpower that spend maybe 3 months mainly just researching stuff all day.

I still managed to perform pretty well in the end and also managed to work a lot. I'm still kind of proud of
the last three weeks (where the submission date was already shifted for exactly those three weeks) where
pretty much worked 16 hours each day from monday to saturday (on sunday you couldn't work there, university is closed).



I have read a lot about internet and entertainment addiction. I needed to cut back on internet
use for entertainment.

After all the exams in my master, that where necessary for credits. I basically had just one lecture over 2 semesters.
Since I needed the lecture to understand the scientific article I needed to do the presentation and essay about,
I pretty much got way to deep into slacking off in that year. That was really bad.
When I tried to study I felt really bad:
I fully felt my backpain, I got instantly tired and overall had to burn immense willpower to get myself to study
just shortly. One time it got so insanly absurd that I could almost not make myself look at the scienctific article.
I had developed such an aversion to working on it that I could not look at it! WTF!!
I baby-stepped it and eventually could start reading slowly.
The next thing was also just thinking about it.
Took immense willpower. The best way to put it how it felt is like that first moment in the coldest possible
shower that taxes all the willpower to make yourself stay in.
(I did cold showers for about 2 years exclusivly and it was almost every time easier than studying.)

That whole thing, not being able to work and not having any desire for real girls got me into a harsh negative
spiral. I was fairly severly depressed, because of all the things I needed to do where just hurting me,
but the is the only way to ever get better, while simultaniously feeling that it will never get easier. That was a
very tough time.

Middle of 2019:
To not slip back into internet entertainment escape and don't follow my hobbies (which would be escape too)
a resorted to the radical method to basically cut out everything besides work and sleep.
I got maybe 1 to 2 hours of work done in total each day, the rest of the day I tried to rest and sleep
or force myself to think about it. Yes, just recalling the words from that scientific article required
heaps of willpower.

Things slowly got better and could handle and get away from my addictive negative depressive thoughts.
All the way through this I allways knew that only working can make things better for me and that I had
to go through the mental and emotional pain each day again and again.

As of now (march 3rd 2020) I'm pretty much got my thoughts handled that I don't really slip into depression,
if so only rarely and shortly, but that is normal, I guess.
The nofap streak is going good so far and I'm having a MUCH more easier time working on getting my damn degree finished.

So things are not to bad. There is still much work to be done in getting rid of bad habits and sticking to good habits.



What really got me into the whole idea of cutting out everything was the idea of the dopamine fast.
I can only recommend you this youtube video on this topic (also from a guy who battled porn addiction and has coached guys on it):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icu8hwo4mZY (channel "Universal Man", title "Becoming a Man of Action via the Dopamine Detox (MoA #01)").

In essence the main idea is that guys who are in prison or are studying aboard with not much interet access
get so bored that it just becomes natural to do the things that benefit you.

He talks about little by little replacing your bad habits with good ones or at least not so bad ones. For instance when someone battles porn addiction he is better of distracting himself with videogames or entertainment to not give
in to PMOing. On another level cut out things like excessive entertainment for escaping and replace them with
spending time working on your goals in life.



After whining about how bad my life is ^^ here are the things I got going for me:

goals in my passion:

My hobby is playing music and getting really good in playing it.
I strive to be pretty good at drums, guitar and singing as well as screaming.
I also want to get a good baselevel of skill in playing the piano.

Further I want to be good at reading music, as well as recognicing intervalls and chords as internalising
a reference note to really know how to play a melody (not just the samy intervalls but higher or lower but exactly that melody). Or simpler, you here a tone and can identify it.

All this is to someday be able to know how to play the stuff you hear in your head.

I want to be able to play on the level of tech death metal bands as Nile (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44jRUTKDLYI 'NILE - "Execration Text" (Official Music Video)') both in skills of drums and guitar. But drums are the priority.

Later I want to form a slipknot tribute band and sing and scream in it.
Maybe also someday a music school for metal.

Probably going to start a youtube channel in the next years and cover some songs.


What i did so far in aquiring musical skills:

I started playing the guitar in 2005 and started drums and vocals in 2006.
I've been practicing mostly guitar with maybe about 3 to 5 hours of practice every week.
Vocal training was probably 1 hour per week and drums maybe 2 hours per week, because I couldn't practice
drums and vocals at home.

Maybe somewhat around 2010 I got some practice pads for drumming at home. Started practicing little bit more.
Maybe about 3-4 hours per week.

In the big house of my grandmother I had (and have) a rehearsal room since 2006 and had also an
acoustic drumkit there. In 2008 I got also amplifierers for guitar and vocals and met with
3 other guys and jamed pretty much once in most weekends of the year from 2008 to 2010.
I continued to jam with my drummer basically until today but effectively the last time we met was in 2018 for
jaming or working on song ideas. Since then it's on hiatus.

The big changing thing came when my family and I moved to the big house of my grandmother in august 2016. So I
lived next door to my rehearsal room where I could practice drums and vocals every day if I wanted.

I buckled into putting more hours into drum practice and would do around 10 hours per week. Not too bad, but
the excellent pro drummers spend a couple of years doing many hours of practice each day 2 to 4 to 6 to 8 to 10 hours every day. The periodes I practiced drums the most I got about 15 to 20 hours per week.

Guitar and vocals got about 5-9 hours per week from 2016 on.
In summer 2017 I fullfilled one of my smaller dreams of buying an old but functional upright paino.
It turned out to be not quiet working as it should but I got it fixed and now it plays well.
I added also the piano practice of about 10 to 15 hours each week.



So in 2017 to 2018 my day often was structured like this:

morning drumming for about 2 hours,
than vocal practice for 45 minutes and screaming practice for about 30 minutes, then showering.
Next piano practice for 2 to 3 hours and then often but not always about 1 hour of guitar practice.

I also did about 1 to 2 hours of practicing racing in a simulation called iracing which is one of the most accurate modeled
race simulations out there (for normal gamers). I would mostly practice improving my laptimes on the Nurburgring Nordschleife
with a GT3 racecar (McLaren 12C gt3, later Ferrari 488 gt3).

Usually, instead of trying to get myself to study I ended up watching youtube (mostly self development / dating advice / pick up content (from RSD : real social dynamics, Owen cook)).



I got quite good at guitar, drums and vocals but the way I practiced had an fundamental flaw that I could only identify in 2018. In all my instruments I wanted get fast and for the vocal I wanted to be able to sing heigher.
The flaw in practice was that I tried to play fast with just using a lot of power. Through 2018 I realized that you can only
get really fast and good if you try to get your technique as relaxed as possible (so the opposite of how I
used to practice).

From 2019 on I pretty much practice mostly only drums for about 7-10 hours per week and often guitar with maybe again
about 5 hours per week.
I stopped practicing vocals because I had constant slight throat pain and had to cough.

goingpublic

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Re: No attraction for real girls - quitting 15 years of pmo - journal
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2020, 10:34:55 PM »
I've been writing all of the above today. Took me 9 hours but I did'nt have to push myself at all (well, very little).
This is basically my summary of all the things happening for me in the last 2 years (I started trying to quit PMO in august 2018).

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Re: No attraction for real girls - quitting 15 years of pmo - journal
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2020, 03:44:49 AM »
Time for a update! Made it to day 40!! Boom! No MO or PMO for 40 days!

Since around day 30 I started to get some latent, more or less always present urge to MO. But these urges are very manageable. The urges that I used to get where very strong (maybe 8-9/10) now they are only at 2-4/10.

So far strong urges have not occured again.


I think I'm now back to the state where I was before I started to PMO when I was 13 years old. It's normal again to not PMO or MO. The only difference is the latent urge to MO. I won't MO, because that leads to PMO for me. But anyway, I don't want to MO, because I want to get attraction and desire for girls back as soon as possible.

When things stay like this, the streak should be sustainable.


Gonna report back in 10 days. Cheers

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Re: No attraction for real girls - quitting 15 years of pmo - journal
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2020, 03:47:14 PM »
50 days

Again no strong urges occured so far.


Read a while ago about long flatlines:

https://www.reddit.com/r/NoFap/comments/37cprv/heres_a_list_of_long_flatlines_to_give_you_hope/

https://www.reddit.com/r/NoFap/comments/803ejt/a_300_day_flatline_is_possible_my_story_and_how_i/

I guess, I belong in that category, too. What I took from these post was that it's about accepting how things are and instead of thinking about not to fap think about how to improve yourself and surrender to work.

Maybe it takes a year or two for me to get out of the flatline. So be it.

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Re: No attraction for real girls - quitting 15 years of pmo - journal
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2020, 12:17:45 AM »
62 days

Had no strong urges. I guess and hope that things stay that way now. I always report about the urges, because it was always the strong urge that hit me out of nowhere and led to relapse that I wasn't prepared for because for a couple of weeks there were no urges.

There is still a lot temptation to MO but I had no problems so far to manage that. I want to recover as fast as possible. Given that I will potentially be in the flatline for up to two years any slowdown is not an option.

Other than the nofap I have to get more committed to cut out the other bullshit things of my life.
That is spending time on youtube and 9gag. I do that occasionally, but the usage has to be reduced more.

I finnally got a topic for my master thesis recently. I try to finish my master thesis in the next 6 months.

So general reminder to myself: You will be 30 years old this year, get your shit together!

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Re: No attraction for real girls - quitting 15 years of pmo - journal
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2020, 04:57:43 AM »
70 days

Pretty much everything stayed the same so far. No strong urges. Only get rather light urges to MO and they are well manageable.
I'm thankful for that.

Otherwise I didn't stick to my media resrictions and studied very little.

Read zander13's journal (http://www.rebootnation.org/forum/index.php?topic=12421.0). He got it tough. Helped me to realize that my mental "problems" are nothing compared to zander13's and I should be and I am grateful for feeling mentally well, or better say just not being depressed.

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Re: No attraction for real girls - quitting 15 years of pmo - journal
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2020, 05:52:25 PM »
Well, well. I made it to 76 days. But I relapsed.

This happend over the last 2 days (17th to 19th).

I thought I could just masturbate a little. I thought I could just masturbate close to orgasm and see how it feels.
Well, I was already on the road to relapse.

I eventually masturbated 2 times without porn. After such a long time of abstinece it was quiet an experience (a good one).

Then I got a little bit stressed, altough it was positive stress. I wanted to make a purchase in the internet and had to figure out how to pay and how to transfer the money.

I paused from that, ... and than I PMOed.

Eventually PMOed another 4 times.

So, starting again. Day 0.

76 steps forward. One back.

I wrote it before that MO leads to PMO for me. I thought maybe this time it works out for me. It didn't.

Another lesson learned and another validation to not MO.

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Re: No attraction for real girls - quitting 15 years of pmo - journal
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2020, 11:48:25 PM »
Made it to 10 Days. Relapsed again on 29th of April. 6 times PMO.

What was new was that I could cum with very soft strokes only.

What led me up to do this was too much of mouth pleasure food I bought (cake, chocolate, chips).
I bought it for the combined effect of cheap calories and good taste (of course, this is not healthy food).

Well, eating that got me to much into pleasure mode and I got a little bit of an urge and just didn't care to not do it.
So I relapsed.

Lesson learned.

-

2 days.

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Re: No attraction for real girls - quitting 15 years of pmo - journal
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2020, 02:53:10 PM »
Hi Goingpublic,

congrats on the 76 day streak! You already achieved a lot and next time maybe you'll last even longer without PMO.

Starting at 13 is pretty early and becoming fully "rebooted" might take a little longer because of that but you already saw some benefits....as you mentioned, even normal MO without P was pretty awesome. I don't think the sole MO made some big damage to your progress but try to stay away from the chaser effect that usually comes soon after (you were mentioning multiple PMOs - typical chaser).

Just from the style of your writing, I can tell you have a very technical mind (in case your college major was not a clear giveaway ;) ). I don't want to push you into anything that seems alien to you, but it might be beneficial also process the emotional side of your situation and recovery. For example, is the use of PMO triggered by some unpleasant feelings/emotions?
If I were a general and wanted to make enemy's male population completely useless, I would just carpet-bomb them with porn.

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Re: No attraction for real girls - quitting 15 years of pmo - journal
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2020, 02:06:37 PM »
Thank you so much, KittyHawk, for stoping by! I already thought I'm just a ghost on this forum.

---

Good news everyone! My dick graduated from Harvard. For celebration I shaked it.

Ok, jokes aside. I relapsed. Had a streak of 16 days.

15th and 16th of May:

I sat on my toilet and enjoyed the feeling of trying to get a erection without touch for 15 minutes. My dick shortly went to full erection then only peaked to 60% and got back to about 40% a couple of times. Basically a game I played, but should have not.
Then this went to a MO with only slow strokes in 7 minutes which was very enjoyable.

Over the next 5 hours I PMOed 5 times. The first 3 times I only used slow strokes. The last two were normalish strokes.

I guess I had to fuck this up a couple of times to learn my lesson again: no MO, and no "erection-games".
I always write these notes to myself and then always ignore it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Time to get serious again.

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Re: No attraction for real girls - quitting 15 years of pmo - journal
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2020, 04:23:48 PM »
Had no idea that M is edging, too. I thought only PM is edging.
So what I described in my last post: that was edging.

This reddit entry describes it very well: https://www.reddit.com/r/NoFap/comments/1tbx3b/edging_clearly_defined_putting_to_rest_the_grey/

Quoted from that link:

'''
Edging (masturbation) (v):

1. The act of masturbating without ejaculation, with or without orgasm.

2. The act of stimulating genitals to the point of pleasure and the neuro-response of dopamine release without ejaculation. Generally achieved through the act of masturbation to reach orgasm, yet ending before ejaculation.

3. The act of purposefully maintaining an erection for an excessive period of time through sexual fantasy or pornography by fondling or using external objects on oneself to induce sexual stimulation when sexual activity with a partner is not a possibility.
'''

-

Current streak is at 10 days.

Had no urges so far.

Tested myself today though to touch alone. Full erection came easy. Although I had no urges, basically a total flatline feeling, it was still very easy for me to get pleasure from that.

Lately I read a journal from the group "Ages 30 - 39" from user "DepressedAndOut". The guy is kind of similar to me. No sexual experience and a long time of porn use. Apparently he is still in flatline.

I suspect that for guys with no sexual experience forceful rewiring might be the only way to get desire for real women. A reconditioning is needed very similar to changing your diet. At first you might not like the different food. But after a while you reconditioned yourself and enjoy it.

I think you can start the reconditioning as soon as you can enjoy M and MO. In the early phase of my reboot I tried to forcefull MO which took me 1,5h. Now I can MO in about 5 minutes!

I think this approach is more practical than the quite low chance approach of achieving hardmode for more than a year or even many years (altough a couple of guys have done it).

That's almost the same as the consensus of the community which is: start to rewire as soon as possible.
Since I feel no desire for kissing, the process of rewiring is going to be forcefull for me. Well, at least I'm not willing to wait for how long god knows for my desire to maybe come back.

My resolution so far is thus: if your are able to have sex (you can get and stay erect for it), do it and recondition yourself for real sex even if you don't feel like it.

-

Lasty:

This post by user younggun15 titled "Urgent Reading For Those Rebooters taking a LONG Time!": http://www.rebootnation.org/forum/index.php?topic=18477.0

In essence he says (quoted from post):

'''
A proper reboot for long rebooters is a HARD MODE REBOOT FOR MANY MANY MONTHS.

The one thing I do not appreciate about Your Brain On Porn is....

1). It says reboots should take 3 months. This is not true anymore. For hard core people with big problems - a proper reboot is 1.5 - 2 years. GET USED TO IT and ACCEPT IT.

2). It provides loose guidelines on masturbation (this leaves it open for guys who are addicts to continue to MO thinking they are still making progress).

OK. THANK GOODNESS YOU READ THIS. I AM GOING TO TELL YOU WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON WITH YOUR REBOOT AND WHY YOU ARE NOT REBOOTING.

1. You are still fantasizing / edging.
2). You are still orgasming alone.
3). You are still watching porn.
4). You are still watching sexy girls on screen.
5). You are still reading sexual material.

YOU THINK YOU HAVE BEEN REBOOTING. You have NOT BEEN REBOOTING. YES YOU - THIS ENTIRE TIME YOU HAVE ONLY BEEN PARTIALLY REBOOTING. I have gone on here and read virtually every fucking success story. I know what it takes to win. What sucks... is that I did not figure this out 3.5 years ago when I realized I had a bad problem. I chose not to 100% focus on it. I chose my business. I chose to put my mind in other things.
'''

So, guys, let's get serious and reboot properly!

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Re: No attraction for real girls - quitting 15 years of pmo - journal
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2020, 12:30:23 AM »
13 days

The testing I did on 26th of May which I mentioned in my last post (had no urge, did M until I got an erection, than stopped) did something interesting:
The next days I had urges to MO. I didn't M or MO, but I again let my shlong hang out and try to get / get erect.
This was very pleasurable.

I mention how pleasurable it was, because I can distinctly remember a moment in my teens where I was maybe 14 to 16 years old (was 1 to 3 years into PMO) and I was on vacation where I didn't have access to porn (maybe I had some erotic pictures on my phone, but they didn't help much). I masturbated and I needed about half an hour to climax whilest not enjoying it very much.

That is a stark contrast to how it is now.

My theory is still (I think that is basically what rewiring is) that if I would have sex now, altough there is no urge or desire for that, the same thing would probably happen as with me testing myself with masturbation: that is: I would get a taste for sex and after that would maybe crave sex.

The urges got me very close to start relapsing with MO. I didn't relapse, but basically edged a lot: I enjoyed myself with my dick out getting erect without touch. I didn't use sexual fantasy, because that still doesn't do anything for my arousal (maybe just slightly).

I read from some guys on the forum that they are mostly prone to relapse in the morning after waking up. That is not the case for me. Mostly when I wake up the urges I had before sleeping vanished. Well, since I was mostly in flatline, this situation rarely ever happend.

It happend yesterday where I had urges to MO throughout almost all day. I went to bed with an urge. Woke up with almost no urge.

Let's see how urgy the next days are. Mostly after I succeded to withstand the urges they subside and don't reoccur.

-

Now I also actually did nofap: I withstood the urge when it counts. That was my reminder in this day with the urge, because I often thought "I don't care, just MO, it feels good". The crucial part of nofap and recovery is of course not giving in when the urge hits or persist for a day or more. Everyone can chill out in the flatline with no urges.

-

I could also see a change in my dreams recently: I dreamt about watching porn. Whilst I was feeling the intense arousal, I did not want to masturbate to it. It felt like I would have to exert willpower to start masturbating to it. I guess that is a reflection of the built up habits of withstanding the urges.

Time to be vigilant to triggers again. For me it now is just getting naked in the bathroom and after using toilet paper on my dick where I slightly jerk it to get the urine out.