gragnoks journal

[gragnok]

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[quitforeverthenwin2]

Hey man, welcome to the forum! We've all been there, joining the forum or coming back to it after a lapse. I know exactly what you mean I was in that same, short streak spot over and over. The 10-14 day kind of deal seems to be common and having a journal DEFINITELY helps with that.

Do whatever works for you, there is no real right way to journal. Just tracking what is going on, giving and getting support can make things a lot easier. Big congrats on getting sober from Alcohol, that is a huge accomplishment, just keep that up and get rid of the PMO as well.

One helpful thing is to think about all the great stuff you are going to replace these old addictive behaviors with. It's not just about removing the bad, it's also about thinking about the good stuff. Me and some others have found that, can be really helpful. Focusing on what you want and on positive behaviors rather then just avoiding the negative. It's great you already have experience with this, removing alcohol so what worked there will likely help you with this too.

I also recommend aim to just keep coming back to the forum and posting in the journal, even if you don't feel like it or things are not going as you want. It'll really add up over time.

[quitforeverthenwin2]

Happy to respond! Congrats on day 3! Awesome you have a dog to walk, dogs are the best.

thanks for responding!
and yeah there does seem to be a lot of similarities to quitting alcohol.
and i like the thinking about all the positive stuff id rather be doing.
exercise is a big one. working out. i am pretty good about doing my cardio but i would love to try to build some muscle and get into strength training. this maybe leans into a bigger issue/what i most want out of quitting porn. i on and off do calisthenics at home (ab stuff, push ups, pull-ups) but at the gym (started going in february) I'm only comfortable on the cardio machines. I'm too intimidated/socially anxious to even walk into the weight room.
point is mostly that i am a pretty socially anxious person and I'm hoping above all that quitting porn will help with addressing this.
there's tons of other stuff, just little things. keeping my apartment nice/super clean, actually cooking healthily food for myself on a regular basis, basically just eating well in general.
i already meditate everyday and journal, habits i picked up quitting alcohol, obviously i will continue to do those.
i also have recently consider a 12 step group or maybe therapy, anyone have any experience with either of those?
probably would enter an alcohol related group if i did 12 step. just a little extra support, and i think i would benefit from helping others. (i basically got sober from alcohol on my own).
anyways really it feels like a continuation of sobriety to me, taking control over more of my life.
anyways looking forward to the journey!

Great stuff! I feel you on the anxiety. I think the porn addiction ads to it.
As far as 12 step, my personal recommendation is to stay away. I strongly recommend this especially, since you are having such great success on your own. I agree, helping others, supporting and being supported is AWESOME. The 12 step has that right but.... I went to 12 step for that reason, not taking the steps seriously. But being there for months and months, hearing over and over "you are powerless, you can't control this etc." Eventually did seep into my head and led to me relapsing super bad ( I, like you had a great clean streak going in). I left the group and it took me literally years to regain control of myself and confidence. Worst decision I ever made, was joining 12 step, set me wayyy back in many areas, from all the awful ideas and advice I got. ( The cornerstone of the program is you are powerless, it was like negative affirmations for me and really did lower my self control). They also told me you can't date until god says your ready. So I didn't date or interact with girls for like a year while relapsing all the time and trying to do the 12 steps. It was HORRIBLE. Very hard to regain a good clean streak after that ( YEARS- not until I came to this forum did I pass 30 days again. When I'd been over 100 clean when I entered 12 step- STUPID ME.) And I totally lost my confidence and skills with girls, which really hurt. Dating and rewiring had made the recovery so much easier. I still haven't had a girlfriend since then, and it took years for me to be able to rebuild my skills and get dates again......)  They also have this thing like the sponsors have no ego and are just gods tool. But, god or no god, good people or not. Everyone has an ego, sponsors were competitive with each other and stuff lol.

12 Step has awesome PR, since it basically brainwashes you into thinking it's the only thing that works, so the people who it does work for make it sound awesome. But the dirty secret is the actually success rate of the program is one of the lowest out there. They aren't bad people, there are some great ideas in the program and they all genuinely want to help, but it is very very unhelpful for a lot of people, particularly if you have had success elsewhere, as they will convince you all your success on your own is false.

I strongly recommend SMART recovery, it's a SCIENCE based recovery program/ group. They have an awesome booklet for like $10. They are the second largest nonprofit recovery group in the US and I find their stuff incredibly helpful, they also have online and in person meetings. (Sunday online meeting for sexually maladaptive behaviours is good). Smart basically has a 4 point plan. 1) Build motivation 2) Dealing with urges 3) Challenging/ changing negative thought patterns 4) Finding activities you love etc. to replace the old addictive behavior. They have no position on other recovery programs, but it's basically the opposite of 12-step. It's all about teaching you over and over that you are in control and you can overcome urges, you can choose to quit the addiction etc. You are not an addict for life. ( But that doesn't mean doing addictive behaviors in moderation, they STRONGLY recommend 100% abstinence from former addictions- Which I, science and everyone else 100% agree on. They just mean you don't have to define yourself as an addict, as for many that can be counter productive. Introducing oneself like "Hi, I am quitforever then win and I am a Sex Addict" as they require or VERY STRONGLY encourage over and over really really was NOT good for me.)  I have the SMart booklet and like to read through it from time to time. That and the "your brain on porn" book by Gary Wilson are gold in my opinion. You can also help people on this forum, find people in smart. etc.

Cool that you mentioned wanting to build muscle/exercise first. Because I think that's probably the best thing to start with. Cardio is the best, but lifting/ building muscle can change your body chemistry and change how you look, which really really can help with self image. Being strong feels really good, you can just feel it and it ups your confidence. To get started do what ever you feel comfortable with. One good thing from 12 step is the phrase "Progress over perfection". Maybe start with machines, or even exercise classes at your gym, to build up your strength and confidence.

Good reminder, as I think I could really use some more strength training in my life soon, so will prob add some machine workouts to my routine.

Edit: Almost missed that you asked about therapy too. My experience with therapy, is I had to try many therapists most were awful but when I found a good one it was helpful. I found things most helpful actually when I did not really talk about my addiction with the therapist. Just going there for like good advice and support. Really had to find the right person. For me, most therapists recommend either 12 step or "why don't you just watch a little porn" as really most people don't understand addiction. But again, for the support and working on other life areas (go in with an idea of what you want) it can be helpful and when I found the right person it did make it a bit easier to get a streak going. But it's not 100% necessary imo.

STAY AWAY (in my opinion) from sex therapists or people who list that they treat sex/porn addiction. As they are almost all totally uneducated about porn and the real bad effects of it ( I STRONGLY recommend "your brain on pron" by gary wilson for more about this and to really understand whats going on in your brain) . The sex/ porn/ sex addiction therapists almost exclusively have NO IDEA what they are talking about. They are usually taught "sex positivity" and do not distinguish porn from sex, they are unaware of changing sexual tastes induced by porn. They will say the addiction is a result of you not accepting your sexuality or something and try and convince you to accept you porn induced fetishes and stuff. There is zero evidence that that has anything to do with porn/ sex addiction and compulsion in just about anyone. Literally what they are taught is based on people sitting around thinking theoretically and thinking "oh, that sounds interesting" and teaching it to them in college, when it comes to sex therapists/ experts.

This happened to me, called up a "Sex addiction therapist" and they were a wackjob who said "just accept your sexuality and it won't be compulsive". That is a HUGE rationalization that my brain  loved to use to try and get me to relapse. ( I gained some very disturbing fetishes from my porn addiction that absolutely did not turn me on in the past, that thankfully start to disappear as I get further and further away from porn).

Cliffs: The best resources I have found are * This forum * The smart recovery book and * "your brain on porn" by gary wilson as well as the your brain on porn website.

[quitforeverthenwin2]

Thanks man! Haha good that my experience (mostly mistakes) can help others avoid some of the same pitfalls. Sounds good! Keep going strong! Feeling really good is good, but don't get too excited to the point that you don't do all the little things that keep your success coming! ( I've been there).

Keep it up and keep sticking around the forum, posting here in a journal most days is incredibly effective...

[quitforeverthenwin2]

Sick stuff dude! Yup, I think everyone one of us has been in that cycle of letting the little stuff slide, this forum helps a TON with preventing that. Have fun with the game and keep it up!

[quitforeverthenwin2]

Great, that's a good habit imo. The quick little check ins can help, even if they make us just 5% more aware or motivated (it's probably even more than that though)

[quitforeverthenwin2]

Well, that's awesome that your problems with porn side effects aren't that severe. I think it'd be pretty tough for a forum to be a cult lol. Cults have to do quite a bit to brainwash people, all sorts of techniques etc. 12 Step is a bit of a cult, but again if it works for people to not die of ODs and stuff good for them and it's very unlike money making cults. Besides SOMETHING brought you here right?

Well, I can tell you that I have thought almost the same stuff you are thinking right now. But now that I am not in that mental state I know FOR SURE porn was a massive massive problem for me. Maybe there are some people who watch a little porn and it's no big deal, but I still think they'd be better off not watching porn.

I spent months thinking maybe guilt is the problem, I watched porn again, things got out of hand to say the least. I was miserable doing some crazy stuff.

Again maybe that isn't you.

But, I can just say that I had similar thoughts and they led me to a really bad place. I still get them sometimes. The addictive part of our brain trys to rationalize why this stuff is okay.

Porn isn't natural you know? It's not like we're trying to give up breathing or eating. If porn is no problem for you, then you should be able to just stop doing it easily lol

Maybe you can share in more detail what brought you to this forum? There are like 100 active members here or less. There are 100 million young men AT LEAST who watch porn, so something must have brought you here.....

[quitforeverthenwin2]

It's okay. Relapsing always stinks, but you are still here posting and had a little streak going. If you get right back on the horse right away, as you seem to be doing the effects won't be too strong.

It's actually awesome that you posted that, about "is this a cult" etc. Because you got to play that entire thought process out, see it led to relapse and that relapse feels super shitty. So now you know, it's just a trick the addictive mind uses to rationalize a relapse. You have it literally written down now the thought, the result and the bad feelings. So it'll be a lot tougher for those thoughts to get you next time.

Again, awesome you posted right after relapsing, if you do that and you keep staying on it, you'll get it done. I have made the mistake of relapsing and staying off the forum for months and going back to like square one, now that really sucks...

So keep it up man! Tomorrow is a new day! Use this as motivation to stay clean in the future.

[quitforeverthenwin2]

Hey man whatever works best! Not a soul in my life knows I post on this forum... and I am fine with that and this forum is still great for me. So do whatever you think is best.

Also man, same with the forum. You are not obligated to share anything about yourself. Some people are more open about their lives, others are less open. Just use the forum in whatever way helps you the most.

As far as keeping the motivation and conviction a few things help:
1) Writing down what motivates you, you can do this for a minute or two a few times a week or daily if you like. ( I also strongly reccomend the smart recovery book, they have a lot of good tools and info on this)
2) Reading about the science behind pmo. Like the your brain on porn website or book.
3) Check out other journals and encourage other guys and encourage them to quit. In this way it is a little like a cult lol. In cults they have people convert other people to the cult to increase their belief and motivation. Encouraging other guys to quit helps them of course and will increase your own resolve and motivation to quit. WIN-WIN

[quitforeverthenwin2]

Congrats on another day in the bank and getting right back on the horse!

[quitforeverthenwin2]

Well done. Every time you get through an urge it weakens the addiction.

[quitforeverthenwin2]

Man sorry to hear that! Nothing to be embarrassed about, every single one of us has been there, including guys who are now killing it with the addiction pretty far back in the past at this point.

I had a different fetish but can other than replacing your fetish with the one I got I can relate EXACTLY. Sending out messages and stuff, I did some stuff I am really ashamed of.

It can be normal when trying to quit to get strong urges that can lead to really bad relapses, that happened to me and does stink.

One thing that helped, as odd as it sounds. Is trying to make MO- The first relapse.... I would be so focused on not moing that I would do weird shit on the internet with messaging/ contacting people instead. When it would have been much better to mo first, regret it and move on, you know? Rather then resisting it so much until my behaviors got worse. Obviously the goal is to be totally clean but better to lapse by moing rather then watching porn without mo'ing or even worse, involving other people. That's the number one territory to try and avoid. I am sure you know that, but I had a similar problem. You saw my journal recently (urges) so good reminder for me too as thats what my urges are for oftentimes.

Remember how shitty this relapse feels. And man you keep posting eventually you'll get it, because you keep trying and trying and seeing what is going wrong.

[quitforeverthenwin2]

Great man! Just keep at it. 90 days is an awesome goal, and you can do it! It can be great to celebrate smaller stepping stones along the way too, like 7 days, 14, 30 days. All nice momentum builders along the way.

Is there anything missing from your reboot? What is your plan to reach 90 days? What triggers can you move or eliminate?

[Track#1- Unbreakable]

Hey I've just read through your journal and I gotta say it's good that you have had 10-12 day streaks. More days without watching porn is a good thing and relapsing one day won't necessarily erase what you have done so far. Eventually, you'd want to make sure you can be more vigilant on what triggers you and what not. If you relapse, make sure you really look into why it happened. You definitely want to catch things before they happen. I've had past experience with this and it sucks to make it so far along and then slip up. I've had days where I couldn't make it out of a week relapsing. Just be sure to watch for the signs, triggers and if you find yourself about to binge stop everything in its tracks. Good luck on your goal to 90 days!

[Track#1- Unbreakable]

I just need to feel truly committed, and go through 90 days and prove to myself that I can and that it’s worth it.

I forgot to add that I definitely think its worth it. Try an experiment. While your on your way to 90 days, go as far as to not look at women below the neck . I've tried this before and I'm going to do it again in my current journey. When giving up porn your mind wants a fix and it wants to find something else to fill that need. So you have lesser forms of porn like pictures, sounds, and erotic literature that your mind wants to indulge in. When you remove them all your mind will definitely be looking at women more and having fantasies/thoughts. So again, don't look at women below the neck. Only look them in the face. You'll notice something that you probably haven't noticed since you were a teen.

[quitforeverthenwin2]

Great man, sounds like good stuff. And good priorities in line. Avoiding drinking #1 makes sense to me. Then porn second.
Great that you can skate with others.

That is progress! Part of the progress of recovery is not enjoying the relapses.... Part of you is like, wtf is this shit? So that is really a big sign of progress. Just keep working at it and you'll get it.

[quitforeverthenwin2]

Keep it up. Working out is the best.

[wecandoit]

Day 2
Today was... okay.
Resolve is still very strong. No urges or anything.
But pretty anxious/depressed at work.
Still went to the gym and did my workouts and feeling much better now.

Keep going with the streak. Anxiety should diminish significantly as the streak gets longer. At least this is my case. And if I don't have high anxiety I tend to be less depressed.

[quitforeverthenwin2]

That's great man! Those easy days are just so awesome and something to be grateful for, plus a motivator because in the future I bet MOST days can be like that. Your brain is already changing for the better.

[quitforeverthenwin2]

Awesome bro! Running is great.

[quitforeverthenwin2]

Nice man! CONGRATULATIONS! 7 days is a big accomplishment! At 7 days as far as I know, there is a testosterone boost. Keep up the good work! You've got that momentum going to head to the next milestone.

[quitforeverthenwin2]

Awesome bro! Thats the way to go, this is big progress. Just keep it up and stay vigilant.

[quitforeverthenwin2]

Great man keep it up! Good self-awareness. Yup Hungry and Tired are literally FAMOUS addiction triggers lol. I am not a fan of 12 step but they have a few good ideas here and there. They have an acronym for triggers to be weary of: HALT. Hungry Angry Lonely Tired

Great plan to double down! That's inspiration and a reminder for me to double down as well!

[quitforeverthenwin2]

Bummer about the lapse. Get right back on that horse! Even these little streaks help.... I remember when I started I straight up failed over and over at going like a week without PMO. Then I was able to get longer and longer streaks and my relapses became mo instead of PMO. So good to get right back on the horse and keep getting the longest streaks you can chipping away at these brain pathways more and more and more.

You got 13 days. Get right back to it.

[quitforeverthenwin2]

A new day one. Didn’t manage to get right back on the horse but I’m here now. Gonna give it one more shot. Idk I have hope, but also my pride it pretty hurt. I know I need 100 percent commitment. hoping maybe it will build with time. I actually have kept up exercising but feel less motivated when I do it, so double down on exercise. Also I’ve fallen off meditating.
Clarify why:
It feels like cheating to me. It feels pretty compulsive to me. It seems to escalate over time.
And how:
Less time home alone. Get out of the house. I really always talk about cooking but I’m gonna talk about it again. Not only do I need healthy home cooked meals, cooking also seems good and therapeutic. Exercise of course. Meditate.

Why one more shot man? Just keep at it, keep chipping away bit by bit. I feel you on the pride being hurt a bit, but look at this all as a process. One step at a time one day at a time. You've been putting in a great effort so feel pride in the effort you are putting in.