Author Topic: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"  (Read 12439 times)

Lero

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Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
« Reply #400 on: August 07, 2019, 08:12:19 AM »
Recognize when you want to search for porn material and stop yourself. Don't switch to autopilot.

Lero

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Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
« Reply #401 on: August 07, 2019, 08:18:35 AM »
We have to understand that we are not addicted to porn, we are addicted to the dopamine hit that it produces. Porn is just the button we have trained ourselves to push in order to get this big dopamine release, and we like it so much because it's so intense. Here is something interesting I noticed today: I switched the focus from "craving for porn" to "craving for dopamine." Instead of visualizing porn in my mind, I visualized the dopamine like a color or something. And for some reason, it helped me lower the craving. Maybe I could visualize a button.

Arthur2

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Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
« Reply #402 on: August 07, 2019, 01:11:49 PM »
Some say that social media is also a dopamine provider because of the novelty that it provides all the time.

I wonder if us who are writting journals here and exploring our body and sensations and sexuality aren' t in fact replacing a wrong source of dopamine by a right and healthy one which is also more intellectually fulfilling and stimulating.

Because writting daily and checking on the comments and "likes" gives dopamine. But on this forum this dopamine release is encouraging us to have a healthy and beneficial habit.

I think it would be even better if we had like gatherings like AA, or we could call it NFA.


Good luck resisting, Lero. Remember : you are not alone.

Lero

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Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
« Reply #403 on: August 07, 2019, 01:24:33 PM »
Some say that social media is also a dopamine provider because of the novelty that it provides all the time.


It is. It has been discovered that novelty keeps dopamine high, so those platforms are created with this in mind. Porn websites have similar format like Youtube, for example. That's why we are so addicted to porn, because of the novelty.

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I think it would be even better if we had like gatherings like AA, or we could call it NFA.

That would be interesting.

Thanks for the support.


Lero

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Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
« Reply #404 on: August 07, 2019, 04:23:27 PM »
No edging to fantasies, no peeking, no edging to P substitutes, no edging to P, no watching P, no PMO, nothing. Urges don't go anywhere if they are not fed. And urges don't kill.

rob24

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Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
« Reply #405 on: August 07, 2019, 05:42:04 PM »
No edging to fantasies, no peeking, no edging to P substitutes, no edging to P, no watching P, no PMO, nothing. Urges don't go anywhere if they are not fed. And urges don't kill.

All good calls Lero. This has been a game changer, and something I think we could keep emphasizing more as a community. It helped me a lot after years without going more than a week. I've gone through tons of phases and often failed at these:

-The initial urges period
-The falling in love and fantasizing period
-The own body/self as porn body change phase
-The flatline of boredom

Who knows if there are other phases? But working to control your own thoughts isn't something I did since I was a kid, when I thought having sexual thoughts was somehow sinful because of my upbringing. I went against it, rejecting my upbringing because I felt it limited me on grounds that I should feel deprived or be suffering more, but now I realize it has more psychological consequences, and I am the agent in charge of my thoughts.

So much comes down to this stuff, like getting a song stuck in your head. I swear, it feels like giving up music playlists has helped me avoid novelty addiction altogether. This was a huge leap man!

Some say that social media is also a dopamine provider because of the novelty that it provides all the time.

I wonder if us who are writting journals here and exploring our body and sensations and sexuality aren' t in fact replacing a wrong source of dopamine by a right and healthy one which is also more intellectually fulfilling and stimulating.

Because writting daily and checking on the comments and "likes" gives dopamine. But on this forum this dopamine release is encouraging us to have a healthy and beneficial habit.

I think it would be even better if we had like gatherings like AA, or we could call it NFA.

Interesting ideas, Arthur! It's useful to pinpoint more of these areas. I'll try to help and keep a lookout for other ones!



BlueHeronFan

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Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
« Reply #406 on: August 07, 2019, 06:37:33 PM »
It's this torturous craving/desire for dopamine. I don't know if it's included in the "urges" category. I'm not talking about "that arousal" that you feel when you say you are dealing with "urges", I'm talking about this craving for the dopamine hit that drives me crazy. It's like they put you in a cell, starve you for 3 days then put a barbecue plate in front of you and you can't reach it. I feel like I walk up the walls with this craving for dopamine.

Yes, exactly this! It's that relentless urge to push that dopamine button. But just keep on going. Even one more day is a big step forward.

We have to understand that we are not addicted to porn, we are addicted to the dopamine hit that it produces. Porn is just the button we have trained ourselves to push in order to get this big dopamine release, and we like it so much because it's so intense. Here is something interesting I noticed today: I switched the focus from "craving for porn" to "craving for dopamine." Instead of visualizing porn in my mind, I visualized the dopamine like a color or something. And for some reason, it helped me lower the craving. Maybe I could visualize a button.

And I think this is exactly right. Switching my focus from just PMO to instead be aware of addictive dopamine release helped me to recognize a lot more of my triggers and take care of them. If we only think about PMO, we're blind to all the other ways we're fueling the dopamine frenzy in our brains that eventually leads to PMO.

Lero

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Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
« Reply #407 on: August 08, 2019, 04:59:37 AM »
All good calls Lero. This has been a game changer, and something I think we could keep emphasizing more as a community. It helped me a lot after years without going more than a week. I've gone through tons of phases and often failed at these:

-The initial urges period
-The falling in love and fantasizing period
-The own body/self as porn body change phase
-The flatline of boredom

Who knows if there are other phases? But working to control your own thoughts isn't something I did since I was a kid, when I thought having sexual thoughts was somehow sinful because of my upbringing. I went against it, rejecting my upbringing because I felt it limited me on grounds that I should feel deprived or be suffering more, but now I realize it has more psychological consequences, and I am the agent in charge of my thoughts.

So much comes down to this stuff, like getting a song stuck in your head. I swear, it feels like giving up music playlists has helped me avoid novelty addiction altogether. This was a huge leap man!

Controlling your porn thoughts isn't easy. This is the hardest part in my reboot. When everything else was excluded, this was what made me relapse. I would drown into porn flashbacks and porn induced fantasies (me in a porn scene with an actress or a crush), start edging to them then move to edging to substitutes and then porn. I would edge for hours, frying myself up like a chicken in the pan, until I exhausted all my arousal and I felt empty, unable to turn myself on anymore. This is when I orgasmed, a weak orgasm that didn't make me feel anything, thinking that it would actually make me feel more. It didn't but I kept repeated the same thing over and over again, thinking: "This time it will be different and the orgasm will feel good." Did I tell you the definition of insanity?

So you see? it was like the first step made me slip and go rolling all the way to the bottom. And I always binged after a relapse because I had that mentality like: "I relapsed, what difference does it make?" Which is a wrong mentality because more means more damage. It's like you hit your finger with the hammer. Would you hit it 4 more times? But you see, it's easy to abuse our brain because it doesn't hurt like a finger. We have to take care of ourselves which means taking care of all our organs, including the brain. Porn is how we abuse it. It's a matter of choice: Do I really want to quit P? If the answer is yes, then let's do it, for real. The quicker we get rid of porn, the quicker we get our brain a well deserved rest (that it hasn't had in years).

You know, if I thought about all the reasons why I PMOed or edged, it would probably be:

1) The pleasure of the dopamine release;
2) Substitute for lack of sex;
3) Soothing when I delt with things like stress, anxiety, depression, rejection;
4) Boredom (and this one I don't really understand how it works. Maybe porn was a way to have fun when I was bored?)

What else? I'll think about it more.

Anyway, novelty is a hard drug. Gabe Deem says in the New Zealand interview (which is on the main page), that novelty is like cocaine. Cocaine blocks the dopamine and keeps it hitting the receptors over and over, and novelty does the same thing. You get a dopamine hit with every click or scroll. I've heard in a TED talk how that year so many porn videos were uploaded on a porn website that, if you watched all of them, you didn't have to watch the same video twice for the next 150 years. You are already dead by then so you could actually never watch the same video twice for the rest of your life  :-\ Being disgusted with all this phenomenon is a great place to start. They are doing this on purpose. They know what effect it has on our brains. The reason why porn websites have the same format as Youtube proves the theory. Fuck porn! Get rid of poison and choose health.

 




Pete McVries

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Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
« Reply #408 on: August 08, 2019, 07:10:27 AM »
Anyway, novelty is a hard drug. Gabe Deem says in the New Zealand interview (which is on the main page), that novelty is like cocaine. Cocaine blocks the dopamine and keeps it hitting the receptors over and over, and novelty does the same thing. You get a dopamine hit with every click or scroll. I've heard in a TED talk how that year so many porn videos were uploaded on a porn website that, if you watched all of them, you didn't have to watch the same video twice for the next 150 years. You are already dead by then so you could actually never watch the same video twice for the rest of your life  :-\ Being disgusted with all this phenomenon is a great place to start. They are doing this on purpose. They know what effect it has on our brains. The reason why porn websites have the same format as Youtube proves the theory. Fuck porn! Get rid of poison and choose health.

That's why social media is so addicting. Endless timelines, endless scrolling and likes that prove your social worth. It's really perfidious how they are able to make people addicted to their product and in consequence influence their users' behaviour. For example, if you post a new profile photo on facebook, naturally because you are human and social approval is important to you, you care about the reactions and even hope there will be positive reactions at all. What facebook does is they show your updated profile picture in the timeline of your friends with a delay. So that your "friends" like and comment on it over a longer period of time. The result is that you have to come back again and again to see the new reactions. Twitter also does something to that effect. If you log in, your notifications won't show up right away. But they slowly go up to the correct number. A neuroscientist once talked about it in a video (I can't find at the moment) and he compared this mechanic to a slot machine. You log in (pull the trigger) and hope for many notification (three 7s in a row). By using social media, you are destined to become addicted to these mechanics.

I don't use any social media anymore but I have a smartphone (an old one). And it has this little blinking light on the top left corner of the display. Everytime I get a new message, this little light blinks every 4-5 seconds or so. It's helpful because my smartphone is on mute all the time, but what it also does, I get an extreme urge to check it right away and I HAVE to act on it because I get restless seeing it. Yesterday, it annoyed me so much because I was doing something else and I didn't want to check the message right away that I had to turn my smartphone upside down so that I couldn't see the light anymore. And that did the trickt. But isn't this insane?

If you quit most of these "hollow" dopamine sources your abilitiy to concentrate for longer periods of time and to being patient will increase a lot. At the height of my porn addiction I couldn't even enjoy watching movies anymore because they were not stimulating enough. Don't even talk about reading a book. That's why social media, youtube, news sites and porn are far more worth the time for your brain.
nine months clean and counting...

Lero

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Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
« Reply #409 on: August 08, 2019, 07:19:29 AM »
That's why social media is so addicting. Endless timelines, endless scrolling and likes that prove your social worth. It's really perfidious how they are able to make people addicted to their product and in consequence influence their users' behaviour. For example, if you post a new profile photo on facebook, naturally because you are human and social approval is important to you, you care about the reactions and even hope there will be positive reactions at all. What facebook does is they show your updated profile picture in the timeline of your friends with a delay. So that your "friends" like and comment on it over a longer period of time. The result is that you have to come back again and again to see the new reactions. Twitter also does something to that effect. If you log in, your notifications won't show up right away. But they slowly go up to the correct number. A neuroscientist once talked about it in a video (I can't find at the moment) and he compared this mechanic to a slot machine. You log in (pull the trigger) and hope for many notification (three 7s in a row). By using social media, you are destined to become addicted to these mechanics.

I don't use any social media anymore but I have a smartphone (an old one). And it has this little blinking light on the top left corner of the display. Everytime I get a new message, this little light blinks every 4-5 seconds or so. It's helpful because my smartphone is on mute all the time, but what it also does, I get an extreme urge to check it right away and I HAVE to act on it because I get restless seeing it. Yesterday, it annoyed me so much because I was doing something else and I didn't want to check the message right away that I had to turn my smartphone upside down so that I couldn't see the light anymore. And that did the trickt. But isn't this insane?

If you quit most of these "hollow" dopamine sources your abilitiy to concentrate for longer periods of time and to being patient will increase a lot. At the height of my porn addiction I couldn't even enjoy watching movies anymore because they were not stimulating enough. Don't even talk about reading a book. That's why social media, youtube, news sites and porn are far more worth the time for your brain.

Fucking correct, man! But, in my case, it was simple. Life made me stay away from social media  :D I was anonymous there. I didn't get any likes, any comments, absolutely nothing. I uploaded pictures but nobody gave a fuck. Then I stopped using social media. I was mad, depressed, sad you name it, for quitting social media. Then I congratulated myself for doing this. Not being active on social media has been one of the best things I could've done in my life.

Lero

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Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
« Reply #410 on: August 08, 2019, 07:39:45 AM »
Day 18

3 weeks are just around the corner. Only 3 days left.

Today urges have been low. I welcome this because I know how brutal the urges could get and I hate this. The craving for dopamine has been low as well, which is strange but also welcome.

The question is this: Do you want to quit porn? At the end of the day, the thing that gives you the last push is the determination to quit. Urges are brutal, the desire for dopamine is torture, your problems have no soothing tool now, you can't have fun with this when you are bored etc. It feels like your decision to quit porn was the stupidest fucking thing. Don't worry about it. Bitch about it. Get things of your chest. But if the determination and decision are there to quit porn, don't do anything. Don't peek, don't edge to fantasies, nothing. Starve the addicted brain completely and one day you will think about it and say: "Now I'm fine. It was a great decision. Now I'm over with this. If I had acted, I wouldn't have been here." That's right. Right now, when the autopilot activates itself, when the craving for dopamine forms the tunnel vision, that day, when everything is over, seems impossible, but it will come. And then you will feel about all this process just like this: "It used to be brutal but now I'm done with it."
« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 04:53:19 AM by Lero »

Arthur2

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Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
« Reply #411 on: August 08, 2019, 12:33:27 PM »


Quote
No edging to fantasies, no peeking, no edging to P substitutes, no edging to P, no watching P, no PMO, nothing. Urges don't go anywhere if they are not fed. And urges don't kill. [quote/]

True.

Very good things to read in this thread.

Shouldn' t we tackle other areas of our lives in which we have dopamine addiction in order to help us battle the P addiction ?

Food addiction is an other one.







Lero

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Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
« Reply #412 on: August 08, 2019, 01:04:38 PM »
True.

Very good things to read in this thread.

Shouldn' t we tackle other areas of our lives in which we have dopamine addiction in order to help us battle the P addiction ?

Food addiction is an other one.

That's interesting. I'll think about it. I guess that now, while being addicted to porn, I am super extra careful not to get addicted to anything else. I'm tired of addictions while battling this one. It's exhausting.

BlueHeronFan

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Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
« Reply #413 on: August 08, 2019, 06:43:10 PM »
Congrats on the continuing progress! You're on a solid path now, and the trick is just to stick with it (which you sound more than committed to doing)!

I don't use any social media anymore but I have a smartphone (an old one). And it has this little blinking light on the top left corner of the display. Everytime I get a new message, this little light blinks every 4-5 seconds or so. It's helpful because my smartphone is on mute all the time, but what it also does, I get an extreme urge to check it right away and I HAVE to act on it because I get restless seeing it. Yesterday, it annoyed me so much because I was doing something else and I didn't want to check the message right away that I had to turn my smartphone upside down so that I couldn't see the light anymore. And that did the trickt. But isn't this insane?

It is crazy how this all works. Just a little hack that has worked for me: I have a reminder set on my phone every morning that reminds me to make it through the day clean, and I only check it off the next morning (when I have made it successfully through the day). Those little notification signals really do get us feeling sort of restless, but this one helps to keep me a little restlessly aware of my commitment to recovery. All day long it's there like an un-answered message driving me a little crazy but in a way that helps to remind me throughout the day what my priorities are.

Lero

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Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
« Reply #414 on: August 09, 2019, 04:59:25 AM »
Day 19

My whole body is desperate to feel that awesome arousal given by edging to P. I feel hungry for dopamine, like I've been forcefully starved (which is true because I've been starving the addicted brain). This is how I've been feeling since around day 7. It's been 12 days of craving torture. The recovery process is scary. I have no idea after how many days I will not be so hungry for P anymore. Quitting P cold turkey made me super irritated and angry. I snap in a second.

I'm writting this earlier for guilty conscience. I can't relapse after writting this.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 10:31:56 AM by Lero »

achilles heel

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Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
« Reply #415 on: August 09, 2019, 12:02:13 PM »
This weekend might be decisive for you, three weeks for me always were the hardest part, after that it got easier. Stay strong, you are on the right way and the end of suffering is near!

Lero

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Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
« Reply #416 on: August 09, 2019, 12:09:27 PM »
This weekend might be decisive for you, three weeks for me always were the hardest part, after that it got easier. Stay strong, you are on the right way and the end of suffering is near!

I hope so.

Lero

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Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
« Reply #417 on: August 09, 2019, 12:34:50 PM »
Remember, you can't go back to day 1. Why? Because on day 1, you were desperate to be where you are today.

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Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
« Reply #418 on: August 09, 2019, 02:51:12 PM »
Good on you Lero. I feel like my reboot has been decelerated by some edging, fantasies, and subs, but it's starting to improve again. Things hit in waves. Your clean reboot is probably working faster! I've been thinking it might be a useful visualizing exercise to imagine that you just relapsed on this very day, and consider the way you feel. It might help make the changes feel more evident.



Lero

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Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
« Reply #419 on: August 09, 2019, 03:08:42 PM »
Good on you Lero. I feel like my reboot has been decelerated by some edging, fantasies, and subs, but it's starting to improve again. Things hit in waves. Your clean reboot is probably working faster! I've been thinking it might be a useful visualizing exercise to imagine that you just relapsed on this very day, and consider the way you feel. It might help make the changes feel more evident.

You know, this is probably the last phase you need to sort out and then you are good to go (your edging to fantasies and subs). But don't get sad about it. One day everything should "click". I mean, I've been here for almost 3 months (without 12 days) and I couldn't even make it to 1 week without doing something. After I got rid of everything, the streak just took of and it took me by surprise. I believe everything eventually will start working for you and you are not far away from it. You've come a long way already.

Yes, that's something I like to do. I visualize a relapse, I feel it, I place myself in that moment, like a method actor. And it feels so bad that I get out of it and say: "No fucking way! I am not going back there!" You see, we forget how we feel after a relapse. The pleasure of porn blinds us and we don't even care. We always need to remind ourselves that this very pleasure takes us back to that relapse.

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Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
« Reply #420 on: August 09, 2019, 04:21:13 PM »
Day 19 - good work, Lero.  I'm on day 20 - it feels good.  It's what you have to look forward to tomorrow!  Another day without porn, another day at the wheel, another day carving out your own life.   Keep going, man, this is worth it.

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Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
« Reply #421 on: August 09, 2019, 04:25:54 PM »
Good on you Lero. I feel like my reboot has been decelerated by some edging, fantasies, and subs, but it's starting to improve again. Things hit in waves. Your clean reboot is probably working faster! I've been thinking it might be a useful visualizing exercise to imagine that you just relapsed on this very day, and consider the way you feel. It might help make the changes feel more evident.

You know, this is probably the last phase you need to sort out and then you are good to go (your edging to fantasies and subs). But don't get sad about it. One day everything should "click". I mean, I've been here for almost 3 months (without 12 days) and I couldn't even make it to 1 week without doing something. After I got rid of everything, the streak just took of and it took me by surprise. I believe everything eventually will start working for you and you are not far away from it. You've come a long way already.

Yes, that's something I like to do. I visualize a relapse, I feel it, I place myself in that moment, like a method actor. And it feels so bad that I get out of it and say: "No fucking way! I am not going back there!" You see, we forget how we feel after a relapse. The pleasure of porn blinds us and we don't even care. We always need to remind ourselves that this very pleasure takes us back to that relapse.

That's right.  Play the video in your mind all the way through, not up to the point where you're feeling that dopamine surge...play it up to the point where you feel trapped, regretful, angry...play it up to the point where you've detached from everything that matters to you.

Arthur2

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Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
« Reply #422 on: August 09, 2019, 04:44:43 PM »
Just passing by i wanted to say hello, and stay strong.

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Quitting P cold turkey made me super irritated and angry. I snap in a second.

What about starting boxing to channel that extra energy and anger that you now have ?

Congratulations on day 19. I myself am looking forward to be there.

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Remember, you can't go back to day 1. Why? Because on day 1, you were desperate to be where you are today.

Very true. It is a great thought to keep in mind. So many times i have experienced that in my own journey !!!

Lero

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Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
« Reply #423 on: August 09, 2019, 04:51:58 PM »
Thanks for the support, Arthur. It's not easy to get to day 19 but it's not impossible.

Lero

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Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
« Reply #424 on: August 09, 2019, 05:25:53 PM »
Day 19 - good work, Lero.  I'm on day 20 - it feels good.  It's what you have to look forward to tomorrow!  Another day without porn, another day at the wheel, another day carving out your own life.   Keep going, man, this is worth it.

Thanks, man. We have almost the same number of days.