Author Topic: You can't just be the man when you masturbate.. you're also the woman  (Read 776 times)

ultrafabber

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Ok, i understand this is out there but hear me out...

...Sex is for two people, there is no such thing as "solo sex", it goes against the very purpose and existence of sex. Sex is a paired activity and the sexual organs are differentiated (penis and a vagina) because of that.


Now, what happens when you masturbate? More importantly, who are you when you masturbate? If you fuck your bed or something else, you are at least a separate entity fucking something. (not that it's normal or anything)


But when you actually stroke your dick? You're aroused and you're actually stroking a dick while you're being aroused. And your dick is being caressed by a man's hand. No woman is present.


You might instinctively think "wait, i'm thinking about a woman so that makes it ok"... well, if you were to fuck your cat while thinking of a woman.. would that make it ok? Wouldn't that make you a zoophile?


Because that's all there is to it really, the argument is that "i'm thinking about something, therefore that's what actually happens". But that is actually incorrect.


Consider the following situations:



What if you were riding a bike and you would imagine you're driving a motorbike? Would you actually stand by the affirmation "I'm actually driving a motorbike"?
What if you used Monopoly's paper money and went to your local grocery store and demanded to pay with them because you think those are real money?
What if you ate a chicken sandwich but you thought you are eating an ice-cream? What would you actually be eating? A chicken sandwitch OR an ice-cream?



The more I look into masturbation the more it seems like a psychotic-like behavior.




It's irrelevant what you're thinking, it's important what you're actually doing. And you're sexually aroused AND stroking a dick. And your dick is stroked by a man, which also makes it gay. If you don't think it's gay, you should be perfectly fine sucking your own dick. (hopefully you're not)




I genuinely believe masturbation is at the root of all this gender confusion (transgender) and so much more. It's just a completely abnormal act and it just makes no sense.


Don't get me wrong, i don't advocate for semen retention or sexual abstinence, i think a healthy and happy sex life is essential to a person's well being.

cranm329

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Re: You can't just be the man when you masturbate.. you're also the woman
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2019, 05:45:16 PM »
Interesting thoughts. What do single people do for sexual release? Not judging or criticising just asking cos I don't know the answer. 50 years ago in my teens girls were virtually not available and socially and morally it was near impossible to have sex outside marriage. There was nothing except abstinence or masturbation.  The world has changed now so do we advise young people to have casual, uncommitted sex?

malando

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Re: You can't just be the man when you masturbate.. you're also the woman
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2019, 10:38:45 AM »
Interesting observations, but I also think the interpretations are too extreme. There is also a lot of puritanical judgement in your interpretation. You were only one step away from talking about how it's against God's will.

As far as being potentially gay: who knows, but then again who cares? If it led to an interest of desire for the body of men, is that in itself a moral problem?

As far as comparing the act of masturbation/fantasy to imagining a woman while fucking your cat: well, no, because masturbation is not about exploiting or involving another living creature. It's about simulating a real experience with a faked one. One in which you suspend your disbelief and disengage from the reality of ideas like you are being touched by a man/you are touching a man. I can see what you are driving at, there is an element of truth to what you say there, there is that implication there, but you also forget that the human brain has enormous capacity for imagination and fantasy. I believe masturbation is not quite the abomination you present it to be because it evolved out of necessity for times and individuals where there is no access to real sex.

Even when you are having sex with a woman, if you are aroused by the sight of your own member entering her, is that also gay? How far do you take this? Does being interested in your own body make you gay?

I'm not saying masturbation is to be promoted as a lifestyle, and it certainly has its pitfalls, but I think you jump to far too many extreme conclusions and interpretations in your post. Nevertheless, I did find it interesting to ponder.

ultrafabber

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Re: You can't just be the man when you masturbate.. you're also the woman
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2019, 03:13:32 PM »
@cranm329

As I was saying to malando, sex is not a basic need like food/water/sleep. You don't need to have sex, it's definitely a very rewarding act and the reward itself motivates you to work for it. Casual sex is very unhealthy and damaging though.

@malando


The thing about a cat has another meaning, aside from the morality of hurting something/someone else. It's about what makes you if you fuck one - a zoophile or not.

But we can bypass that be considering two similar situations:

1. A dog mounting a woman - the dog is willing and not hurt, but is the woman not a zoophile if she fantasizes she is penetrated by a man?

2. Fucking a very realistic silicone, heated etc cat. Is is ok because you're thinking about a woman?

So basically it would be obvious it's not sufficient to believe it's a woman/man. It actually has to be.


There's other aspects of homosexuality not being healthy but i don't want to go into that, i'm just focusing on how masturbation is actually a homosexual act. It has nothing to do with religion.

At the end of the day the most straight-forward thing is the oral sex thing.. if anyone thinks masturbation is normal/straight etc, he/she should be 100% ok with sucking his own dick or licking her own pussy, assuming they magically have the flexibility for it.  You will find that the overwhelming majority will not ever consider sucking their own dick (not saying they should).

As for necessity, there is no necessity for sex as it is for food/water/sleep. Semen gets recycled and the body produces erections over night to keep the penis healthy.

MosesY

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Re: You can't just be the man when you masturbate.. you're also the woman
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2019, 11:16:27 PM »
What is your point about masturbation being a homosexual act? You seem to imply that makes it wrong somehow. Why would that be wrong? You come across as a homophobe.

If men could suck their own penis you can be absolutely certain they would do it. What would be wrong with that?

I would say if a man doesn't want to masturbate then he shouldn't masturbate. That is his decision. To go around telling other people they shouldn't masturbate well that is wrong. Instead of telling people that they shouldn't masturbate you should come up with some real problems caused by masturbation. Here you are talking about a cat (what?) and how you are gay if you do it. Seriously.

ultrafabber

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Re: You can't just be the man when you masturbate.. you're also the woman
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2019, 01:34:52 AM »
Like I said in the former post, i don't want to turn this discussion into one about homosexuality, even though i don't consider it a normal/healthy behavior.

The discussion is about straight people, that consider themselves straight, that want to be straight... doing a homosexual act. We know already so many people complain of having homosexual thoughts after watching a lot of porn and masturbating a lot. This thread explains why that is.

Homophobia is not really a word, nor is islamophobia or other -phobias that have nothing to do with phobias.

A phobia is a [1] pathological, [2]irrational [3]fear. I and most people that don't agree with homosexuality being normal are not fearful of it, nor irrational, nor do we need professional mental health assistance because of it (that's what "pathological" implies).

I'm talking about a cat to show how it obviously matters who the recipient of the act is and that everybody actually cares about it, it's not enough to "think about a woman"

malando

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Re: You can't just be the man when you masturbate.. you're also the woman
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2019, 04:15:38 AM »
There's a 3rd option, you know: it's not homosexual or heterosexual, there's a word for it: it's just masturbation. You are against Homosexuality and you are against masturbation, and it seems like you are trying to link the two for the sake of expediency. I don't think the logic is sound though. sex with yourself can't be compared to sex with another person - regardless of the gender. Most people do not masturbate because of a lustful attraction to themselves. There are other thoughts and motivations behind masturbation. It's also worth noting that it's quite common in the animal kingdom too. It would seem to be a natural adaptation in certain situations. Let's take a severely disabled person, for example. He may feel he can't be with another person, but who are we to say that he can't have a sexuality or sexual needs?

MosesY

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Re: You can't just be the man when you masturbate.. you're also the woman
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2019, 05:58:00 AM »
Like I said in the former post, i don't want to turn this discussion into one about homosexuality, even though i don't consider it a normal/healthy behavior.

The discussion is about straight people, that consider themselves straight, that want to be straight... doing a homosexual act. We know already so many people complain of having homosexual thoughts after watching a lot of porn and masturbating a lot. This thread explains why that is.

Homophobia is not really a word, nor is islamophobia or other -phobias that have nothing to do with phobias.

A phobia is a [1] pathological, [2]irrational [3]fear. I and most people that don't agree with homosexuality being normal are not fearful of it, nor irrational, nor do we need professional mental health assistance because of it (that's what "pathological" implies).

I'm talking about a cat to show how it obviously matters who the recipient of the act is and that everybody actually cares about it, it's not enough to "think about a woman"

So the way I understand it you and other people believe homosexuality is wrong and you believe masturbation is wrong so you are dissuading people from masturbating by trying to convince them masturbating is a homosexual act. I would suggest that you seek professional help.

ultrafabber

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Re: You can't just be the man when you masturbate.. you're also the woman
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2019, 06:46:08 AM »
@ malando

I used to think masturbation is somehow "different than sex". I masturbated for 20 years.

The more i objectively look at it, the less sense it makes. What happens in masturbation? You literally stroke a dick to get aroused and/or more aroused and you orgasm with a dick in your hand. I don't see how that is not gay. I don't see how "being yours" makes a difference.. it's still a dick and you're manipulating a dick to stay aroused and orgasm... Ok, so you think about a woman, how does that negate the rest? Like I said before, anyone who thinks masturbation is ok and not gay, should be 100% fine with sucking their dick to completion, yet the overwhelming majority of men that masturbate will never ever do that.

Masturbation is not common in the animal kingdom at all actually. It is more common in primates but it varies depending on mating system, multi-male-multi-female masturbate more and to completion, while the rest rarely do it and usually not to completion. Also, the monkeys that masturbate more mate less and are lower in social hierarchy.

@ Mosesy

I would suggest you don't insinuate i am mentally ill and try to stick to arguments if you have any. Like I said, i focus on masturbation being a homosexual act, no matter how you perceive homosexuality to be (good/bad).

MosesY

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Re: You can't just be the man when you masturbate.. you're also the woman
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2019, 08:45:49 AM »

@ Mosesy

I would suggest you don't insinuate i am mentally ill and try to stick to arguments if you have any. Like I said, i focus on masturbation being a homosexual act, no matter how you perceive homosexuality to be (good/bad).

I'm just trying to grasp what you are staying before I counter with arguments. I also noted that you don't believe you are mentally ill and from my reading of your posts on this ssubject it appears to me that you need help from a therapist. I don't mean that in a derogative manner, many people including myself get help from therapists, it is just a matter of fact. The homosexual act occurs when you have sex with a person of the same sex. That requires two people. Look it up. Basically you are attempting to redefine homosexuality to include solo masturbation. What would be the purpose of that?

Your position that men would not suck their own dick if they could is based on your own personal opinion. I have seen pictures of men that were limber enough to suck their own dick. THe only reason men don't suck their own dick is because they can't. If they could the majoirty would do so, the same as the majority of men masturbate and look at porn.

ultrafabber

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Re: You can't just be the man when you masturbate.. you're also the woman
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2019, 09:51:39 AM »
@Mosesy

You will see a lot of weird stuff on the internet, just because it's out there does not make it normal.

No, the reason why most men won't suck their dick is because it would be extremely wrong and disturbing.

Of course it doesn't require two people for a homosexual act. A man penetrating himself with a dildo is still doing a homosexual act, so is a man sucking on a dildo.

malando

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Re: You can't just be the man when you masturbate.. you're also the woman
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2019, 11:06:49 AM »
I'm not going to bother debating this any further with you UF. You aren't really here for discussion. I think you're just here to shout this masturbation/homosexuality conflation from the rooftops, not to debate it. I want no part of it. I also advise you to tread carefully with the homophobic ranting or I'll delete this thread.

ultrafabber

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Re: You can't just be the man when you masturbate.. you're also the woman
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2019, 11:42:33 AM »
The goal of this topic is to discuss why people think masturbation is not a homosexual act, so far i've asked questions that nobody wanted to answer.

Like i said, the word homophobia is not actually correct but this has nothing to do with the discussion, so please, you or anybody else willing to participate, answer these questions:

1. is sucking a penis to completion (and/or even swallowing or getting a facial) a homosexual act?

2. Is fucking a silicone cat while thinking of a woman not at all zoophilia related?

MosesY

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Re: You can't just be the man when you masturbate.. you're also the woman
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2019, 12:13:33 PM »
The goal of this topic is to discuss why people think masturbation is not a homosexual act, so far i've asked questions that nobody wanted to answer.

Like i said, the word homophobia is not actually correct but this has nothing to do with the discussion, so please, you or anybody else willing to participate, answer these questions:

1. is sucking a penis to completion (and/or even swallowing or getting a facial) a homosexual act?

2. Is fucking a silicone cat while thinking of a woman not at all zoophilia related?

Sucking a penis is a sexual act. If a woman sucks a mans penis it is heterosexual. If a man sucks another man's penis it is homosexual. If I suck on a dildo or on my own penis, that is a solitary sexual act, it is neither heterosexual nor homosexual, it is masturbation. If I am heterosexual normally I would think about a woman while masturbating. If I am homosexual I would think about a man.

Question #2, you should think this through before casting it out there. I believe sexual orientation is formed through genetics, environment, and choices. Those three things work together to make us the person we are. None of them work independently. FOr instance you cannot just choose to be a judge and then be a judge. FIrst of all your genetics have to be in place; if you are born with an IQ of 80 you will never become a judge. Next your environment has to be in place; you have to be in a position to go to college. Then your choices have to be right; if you end up making the wrong choices and getting addicted to heroine you will probably never be a judge. It is the same way with sexual orientation; genetics, environment, and choices all work together. Now for the silicone cat. Lets say a man was born with the proclivity to like having sex with 12 year old girls. THe environment he is born into ends up reinforcing this proclivity. When he gets older he realizes this is wrong though and gets a little manequin so he can imagine he is having sex with a 12 year old girl. In your scenario he could be arrested for this and put in prison for it even though he never harmed a single person.

ultrafabber

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Re: You can't just be the man when you masturbate.. you're also the woman
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2019, 01:09:25 PM »
Q#1 : If sucking a penis is a sexual act, so is sucking your own penis a sexual act. A "solitary sex act" makes no sense because sex is a paired activity, it's whole purpose of existence is for pairing. You would not have evolved a penis otherwise. A "solitary sex act" as you name it just mimics a normal sex act.

If you think that it's only what you think about that defines your sexual orientation, then f@$ing a man in the ass if you imagine you're f$%ing a woman would still mean you're heterosexual...

Q#2 : This doesn't make the man not a pedophile just because he didn't act on it. Obviously finding a replacement is preferable to actually engaging in a sex act with a minor, but that does not answer the question, the question is if the object you use to masturbate with (be it your hand/a silicone cat/ a little manequin) matters or not.

MosesY

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I did not say that what you think about while masturbating is what determines your sexual orientation. The fact that you interpreted it so is another indicator that you need professional help. Our sexual orientation is determined by our genetics, environment, and choices. Those three things together. If a man wants to only have sex with women he is heterosexual. If he wants to only have sex with men he is homosexual. If he will have sex with both men and women he is bisexual. On some occasions a heterosexual male will have sex with a man just to try it out, out of curiosity, or whatever. Two men having sex with each other is homosexual. If I have sex with a man that does not make me a homosexual, I only want to have sex with women so I am heterosexual but I might occasionally commit homosexual acts. I think you come from the stance that homosexuality is wrong but explain this to me; How is homosexuality more wrong than pride, greed, lust, envy, drunkenness, etc.?

I don't believe that the penis and the vagina evolved, I believe they were created. THe earth is obviously too complex to have just happened; there has to be some sort of force behind it. Lets go with your assumption that the penis and vagina evolved to create pairing. If that is the case then why did men evolve in such a way as to enable them to have loving, caring, sexual relationships with other men?

I have to say here that I am certainly heterosexual, I have never had sex with a man, but homophobic attitudes make me angry. Men love to rail against gay men. Preachers love to preach about it. THose same men that rail against homosexuality then go home and abuse and molest their children. If I am going to be gay because I masturbate once in a while then let me be gay.

ultrafabber

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Re: You can't just be the man when you masturbate.. you're also the woman
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2019, 09:16:39 PM »
Ok so you're telling me that if you have sex with a man that does not make you homosexual... that implies for example that if you have sex with a goat that does not make you a zoophile. Not insulting you or anything, i'm just saying that that is a perfectly logical conclusion.

The argument that homosexuality is ok because it can happen is also not holding water because, the same way you said " why did men evolve in such a way as to enable them to have loving, caring, sexual relationships with other men" you can say " why did men evolve in such a way as to enable them to have loving, caring, sexual relationships with other goats". A woman for example can have a very intense sexual relationship with a dog, that doesn't mean it's ok. - Just because it can happen (and it does happen), it doesn't make it right/normal/good/healthy.


I didn't say homosexuality is more or less wrong than anything, although i do think some things are worse than other... but again, i don't want to turn this discussion in one about homosexuality being right or wrong, i'm just discussion how masturbation is or is not a homosexual act.

MosesY

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Re: You can't just be the man when you masturbate.. you're also the woman
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2019, 02:44:15 AM »
I never said that homosexuality was okay. We can do lots of things that are not okay. We can murder, lie, or steal, those are not okay. My stance on homosexuality is that since those people aren't hurting anyone I don't care. The men who preach against homosexuality and then sell drugs to minors and cheat on their wives and abuse their children are the men that really bother me.

What is the point of arguing that masturbation is a homosexual act? What difference does it make whether it is heterosexual or homosexual?

Homosexuality is currently defined as a sexual relationship between two people of the same sex. In order for masturbation to be a homosexual act you would have to change the definition of homosexual.

ultrafabber

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Re: You can't just be the man when you masturbate.. you're also the woman
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2019, 10:10:46 AM »
Because a man who considers himself heterosexual is doing homosexual stuff and is hindering his own sexuality. There are A LOT of instances of men complaining about porn/masturbation addiction and homosexual tendencies after a lot of indulging in PMO. This explains why it happens.

If you read about operand conditioning, masturbation is a classic case of stimuli crossover - you are getting aroused thinking about a woman but also while you are stroking a dick. The latter is a homosexual act - particularly when sexual arousal is paired with dick stroking.

MosesY

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Re: You can't just be the man when you masturbate.. you're also the woman
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2019, 01:17:31 AM »
I would like to see some real studies done on that, not just arm chair theorizing. I am 51 years old, I have been masturbating for 38 years and I am not in the least bit homosexual, I do not have homosexual thoughts or tendencies. After my divorce I spent two months thinking about becoming homosexual because it would be an easier relationship but what I found is that I am simply not sexually attracted to men. I guess that shoots your theory right in the foot.

malando

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Re: You can't just be the man when you masturbate.. you're also the woman
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2019, 01:47:37 PM »
I would like to see some real studies done on that, not just arm chair theorizing. I am 51 years old, I have been masturbating for 38 years and I am not in the least bit homosexual, I do not have homosexual thoughts or tendencies. After my divorce I spent two months thinking about becoming homosexual because it would be an easier relationship but what I found is that I am simply not sexually attracted to men. I guess that shoots your theory right in the foot.
There is simply no evidence that this theory has any validity - only one guy with an intense desire to argue a connection between homosexuality and masturbation. Maybe it's his way of motivating himself to give up masturbation. But it's not science. It's very superficial deductive reasoning and it's not gaining any traction. Geez, imagine how many teenage boys and men are being gay right now...

DoneAtLast

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Re: You can't just be the man when you masturbate.. you're also the woman
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2019, 03:11:00 PM »
I think you guys are being a bit hard on him.  He's doing some blue sky thinking here, and honestly if we throw "puritan" labels on things, we won't get anywhere.  NoFap wouldn't be around if people just dismissed it as puritanical hogwash from day one, and we need to be willing to hear out the ideas.  He's just following a train of thought to see where it goes.

That said, I think there IS a flaw in the logic, but it isn't some sort of hobophobia.  I think there is a gap.  When MOST guys masturbate, their mind is on the physical sensation and stimulation, and the mental images.  IF their mind was on their own wee-wee and they're being aroused by themselves or thinking about how hot their own bodies are, or masturbating into a mirror, then yeah, that would be a low-grade sort of homosexuality.  Are there straight guys who masturbate this way?  Probably.  Do they make up a significant portion?  Probably not. 

The more interesting part of the OP's points are just how silly masturbation looks when you try to figure it out.  Who/what are you attracted to when it is just you?  Is your sexual orientation/sexual purpose defined simply by what website is open on the monitor in front of you?  There is an absurdity to the question, and I enjoy it frankly.  It proves the point by way of argument that masturbation =/= sex.  I think his other examples help to support that idea. 

HumbleRich

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Re: You can't just be the man when you masturbate.. you're also the woman
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2019, 04:09:45 PM »
First of all, OP stop trying to save the world.  I know what it is like to have these AHA moments early on when you start to figure things out, but unfortunately the world doesn’t work that way.  You have to have personal victories first, before you can have public victories.  I think it was Steven Covey who said that.  But anyway, you have to succeed at rebooting first, before you can be the teacher.  Something I have had to learn the hard way.

On the topic, though, if I could go back I would have gotten laid as soon as I got into university, or late high school.

Our culture has it completely backwards.  Actual sex, the experience, is frowned upon, while the objectify of sex and women, is pushed towards us as a substitute.

You can’t engage in sex with a living, breathing human being as an eighteen year old boy or girl, but you CAN go and buy a penthouse magazine, or more commonly these days, go to a porn website and masturbate yourself to orgasm.

Think about that for a second.  Really think about that.

Actual sexual engagement, on an equal footing, with another person.  WRONG.  Objectifying and reducing an entire sex of people (women).  Not only RIGHT, but a fair and decent way to make money.

You don’t learn anything from masturbating to porn.  Only that it is okay and acceptable to objectify women.

Sex, on the contrary, requires interaction between two people, and, if you want to maintain a relationship with a woman, figuring out how to make her feel good.

Our society has it backwards.

We should teach safe sex practices and encourage our teenagers to have sex (when they are of legal age).  They will be less sexist and misogynistic, more empathetic to the needs of women, and better able to sustain healthy relationships with women.

All pluses in my book.  I expect that if I got into a time machine and stopped myself from watching my first porn video, and actually went out on dates and had sex instead, I would have ended up a much healthier and happier person.

Sorry about writing so much.  That is my two cents.  And I think it relates to what the OP was talking about.

Peace,

Rich

HumbleRich

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Re: You can't just be the man when you masturbate.. you're also the woman
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2019, 04:19:58 PM »
Just to clarify here,

I am not advocating that parents must all believe the same thing, or that they should necessarily advocate any particular positions on sex.  What I am saying is that teenagers should be educated on how their bodies, and those of others, work, and how to practice safe sex, including sex without intercourse, rather than being taught abstinence.  Teenagers are going to try to have sex anyway.  They might as well learn how to do it safely and how to not get pregnant.

If I could do my life all over again, I would have started having sex at eighteen and never watched my first porn video.  I would have been more well adjusted, would know more about pleasing a woman than I do, and would be less sexist than I am.

We need to change our priorities.

Rich