Author Topic: My journal to recovery- Could use support  (Read 6352 times)

Quitforeverthenwin

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #225 on: May 31, 2019, 03:43:46 PM »
Thanks so much guys for all the support! Been trying to think a little bit less and analyze less the last few days and I had family visiting! I had a really great time with the family!

All really good thoughts and really glad to hear what you guys all said.

Been all good since my last post. Masturbated about once a day for a day or two, then have done nothing the last three days.

As of now: PMO, Escrots, PMO Fetish fantasy or acting on it: Aim= Eliminate forever.

MO: With fantasy of real women or just to touch alone: Not cutting it out for now, but will incorporate breaks. Basically I will see how it works based on a "does my dick and mind work" basis.

May post a little less (but will keep you all updated!) since I am aiming to do more of "living as if PMO didn't exist" mindset.

BlueHeronFan

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #226 on: May 31, 2019, 05:08:44 PM »
Glad to see you're back and doing much better!

I like the idea of living more as if PMO didn't exist. From my own experience, though (and what are we doing if we aren't nagging each other?), I've run into trouble when I've also lived as if my vulnerability to PMO didn't exist. Does that make sense? I know in the past I've been too careless with triggers and other things because I was acting like PMO wasn't a thing. I think it's definitely good to go out and focus on other things (I'm not saying don't), just take care of yourself (I'm also not saying you won't). Oh well, maybe I shouldn't have even written this paragraph, but I'm in too deep now.

Best of luck with it all, and we'll be waiting for another update!

Lero

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #227 on: June 01, 2019, 06:53:41 AM »
I like the idea of living more as if PMO didn't exist. From my own experience, though (and what are we doing if we aren't nagging each other?), I've run into trouble when I've also lived as if my vulnerability to PMO didn't exist. Does that make sense? I know in the past I've been too careless with triggers and other things because I was acting like PMO wasn't a thing.

I think I understand what you mean. This part is tricky but maybe it depends on the individual too. In my case, it helps when I don't think about P. Thinking about quitting P is thinking about P. Thinking about how hard is to quit P is thinking about P. However, if this makes you develop that mentality like "I don't have a problem with P, one PMO won't hurt me", this is not good. Anyway, I guess "Listen to your instincts" could help. People can only suggest things, give advice, tell you what work for them but what works for you, only you can figure out.

BlueHeronFan

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #228 on: June 01, 2019, 06:45:25 PM »

I think I understand what you mean. This part is tricky but maybe it depends on the individual too. In my case, it helps when I don't think about P. Thinking about quitting P is thinking about P. Thinking about how hard is to quit P is thinking about P. However, if this makes you develop that mentality like "I don't have a problem with P, one PMO won't hurt me", this is not good. Anyway, I guess "Listen to your instincts" could help. People can only suggest things, give advice, tell you what work for them but what works for you, only you can figure out.


Yeah, definitely. We're all in this together, but we're also walking really individual roads. Like, for me, posting here often definitely makes me think about P more often than I probably would otherwise, but it's been helpful for me because it makes me more accountable for my thoughts throughout the day. And I think that's one of the biggest breakthroughs I've had recently: accepting that I have a problem that will need daily attention has helped me to take better care of myself from day to day. My mindset has sort of switched from "If only PMO would get out of my life!" to "Since PMO is a part of my life, how do I live with that fact and take care of myself so I don't slip?" It has made urges less of a crisis and more of a call to action.

Lero

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #229 on: June 02, 2019, 04:56:49 AM »
Yeah, definitely. We're all in this together, but we're also walking really individual roads. Like, for me, posting here often definitely makes me think about P more often than I probably would otherwise, but it's been helpful for me because it makes me more accountable for my thoughts throughout the day. And I think that's one of the biggest breakthroughs I've had recently: accepting that I have a problem that will need daily attention has helped me to take better care of myself from day to day. My mindset has sort of switched from "If only PMO would get out of my life!" to "Since PMO is a part of my life, how do I live with that fact and take care of myself so I don't slip?" It has made urges less of a crisis and more of a call to action.

That's right. Well said.

pichaelthompson

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #230 on: June 02, 2019, 05:19:31 PM »
Happy to see you are back and doing well, quit! Yeah for me it does help when I don't think about P, even if that includes thinking about how I will continue to not watch P. The moments we are invested in other things that we enjoy and are good for us are the moments when P has no power over us, and while that might not be as often as we would like they are always attainable. Sometimes when I get really strong urges, I'll try to remember a time when I was totally invested in one moment or experience, where P was nowhere in the mind.

Quitforeverthenwin

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #231 on: June 08, 2019, 04:22:44 PM »
Hey guys thanks for all of the support!

So, things are a little interesting:

I had been MOing most days but with fantasies with real girls and if I am honest... I feel much much better. My erections got better, mentally I felt a lot better, less effort to control urges.

I had attempted to cut the mo back out then had a mild slip yesterday... (looked at some stuff and some fetish fantasy while moed....)

Honestly I think the mo is helping.... Basically what I did was, when I got an urge instead of fetish fantasy porn or whatever. I was moing but forcing myself to think of healthier sex situations. I had the mild slip when I tried to stop the mo. That is a psychological effect, when I try and cut something out and don't do it, I end up going more extreme.

The slip is a bummer but the cool thing was... After a few weeks of this, I actually got a lot more pleasure moing to "healthier" sex thoughts then to PMO/fetish stuff. It's like I rewired a bit to healthier desires.

My concern is.... will my dick work with a real girl?

Going forward the plan is/was:

MO- But incorporate periods of not doing it as it could be perhaps good for my brain/ penis health as well. That is what I had tried to do then I had a slip....

What I notice AGAIN AND AGAIN. Is not keeping commitments no matter what it is leads to slips.

I had committed to cutting out all sex thoughts (at the end of my last long streak) then when I thought about any sex I ended up full on relapsing. It is more psycological then it is

So, I think things are better, the slip was very mild and I actually don't feel so terrible. I also changed up my diet. I had been on a lowish carb diet, I added more carbs and surprising I am leaner and have more energy and muscle. I think I made a lot of things too extreme and hard for myself.

Still keep getting damn colds lol. (I think it's been the same thing this whole time coming and going.... need health insurance). Rested a lot today but other then that work's been going well. I started budgeting better and am working to get a second gig going to make more money and move forward in life.

Edit: Not sure how clear I was and it may sound like I am minimizing it but.... I am almost excited about this slip because my PMO fetishes did not give me much pleasure. I feel that my brain is changing. I think forcing myself to orgasm to thoughts of real intimacy is making those pathways stronger. It seems bizarre I guess. But it was cool, it was almost like I had to force myself to do the slip, like it was a chore that I should get done because I already started. Never felt that way before and right after I was like man I'd rather think about real girls. So it'd odd to call a slip progress but it definetly felt like it...
« Last Edit: June 08, 2019, 04:28:38 PM by Quitforeverthenwin »

BlueHeronFan

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #232 on: June 08, 2019, 06:44:40 PM »
Glad you're still finding your way and stopping by with updates!

I definitely think it is possible to go too extreme. I started trying to lose some weight last year, and I slipped into being too extreme in cutting back on food. My body reacted by putting on more weight, and I only started losing weight again when I ate more. So yeah, we might think we're doing ourselves a favor by going in as intense as we can be, but it can backfire.

Both weight control and addiction recovery are changes to lifestyle, and it's important to find what works long term. As I've been working at recovery this year, I've been thinking a lot about what changes I can make that I can maintain possibly for the rest of my life. That process has helped me to start seeing these changes as a part of my life moving forward and not just as some quick tricks to fix this addiction and move on.

So keep thinking about what will work for you in the long run. And be careful with minimizing things (I don't know that you are, but you did bring it up). For me, anything that triggers that addictive dopamine loop will lead me back to PMO eventually. It's easy for me to tolerate something that isn't explicitly PMO, but I've learned to be more careful about the things that still work in my brain the same way. Like staring down girls around town in a gross way: not PMO, but also a habit that keeps me tied to PMO in a way. I don't know, that's just me.

kadeshzelbriel

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #233 on: June 09, 2019, 12:12:16 AM »
I love what you're playing with here around gentleness/extremeness in discipline. I totally agree that in my experience, the more harsh the discipline energy, the more extreme the reaction. there's a relevant buddhist principle that the more we try and control the mind, the more it does the opposite of what we want. i think that's related to the attempt to "cut out all sexual thoughts." we can't really ever do this, we can just set an intention around what we do if/when a sexual thought appears, or if the desire to think sexual thoughts comes up, or if we find ourselves indulging in sexual thinking. the same principle would apply - if we're harsh with our self when a sexual thought comes up, it'll come back stronger. if we just gently remember our intentions and why it matters to us, we can retrain our mind over time.

part of what i hear in your approach is finding a way to move the sexual energy that is in the direction you want. if you try and bottle it all up, it'll come out of the more extreme holes. this way, there's an outlet for it.

pichaelthompson

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #234 on: June 11, 2019, 04:18:51 PM »
I think it's important to experiment around with different approaches and strategies if you think it's what will help you reach your relationship goals, but just be suuuper careful when MOing/fantasizing. I know that cutting out sexual thoughts is bad and will only lead to more desire in the long run, but I do think there is some way to let these thoughts come and go like a spec in the wind, a slight annoyance but something we are comfortable suppressing due to our long term goals. From my experience, MOing without P was great at first because I felt like I was being giving a fair reward to myself while not hurting my brain with P, but eventually MO on its own got boring, and I started to miss P more and more which led to a string of really bad relapses. Again, this is my experience and this was at a time when I had minimal sexual experiences with real women so my brain wasn't wired towards that at all, so I do think this could work if you are already naturally more inclined to pursue real relationships.

Acting on these thoughts (MO) can be good if you think that it rewires your brain towards more real-life situations, but for me it is either a way to indulge my brain through the anticipation of the O, or eventually leads me to an empty feeling; I eventually got no joy out of just MO as there is no passion or external stimulation except for my own hand, and since I could not find intimacy I would fall back on old habits and sink to P again.

Lero

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #235 on: June 12, 2019, 03:47:49 AM »
I think it's important to experiment around with different approaches and strategies if you think it's what will help you reach your relationship goals, but just be suuuper careful when MOing/fantasizing. I know that cutting out sexual thoughts is bad and will only lead to more desire in the long run, but I do think there is some way to let these thoughts come and go like a spec in the wind, a slight annoyance but something we are comfortable suppressing due to our long term goals. From my experience, MOing without P was great at first because I felt like I was being giving a fair reward to myself while not hurting my brain with P, but eventually MO on its own got boring, and I started to miss P more and more which led to a string of really bad relapses. Again, this is my experience and this was at a time when I had minimal sexual experiences with real women so my brain wasn't wired towards that at all, so I do think this could work if you are already naturally more inclined to pursue real relationships.

Acting on these thoughts (MO) can be good if you think that it rewires your brain towards more real-life situations, but for me it is either a way to indulge my brain through the anticipation of the O, or eventually leads me to an empty feeling; I eventually got no joy out of just MO as there is no passion or external stimulation except for my own hand, and since I could not find intimacy I would fall back on old habits and sink to P again.

This is how it works for me too. I've never been crazy about just MO, P was what I always craved. If P hadn't existed, I don't think I would've MO-ed that much.

Quitforeverthenwin

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #236 on: June 14, 2019, 09:33:42 AM »
Thanks a lot for all the support and thoughts guys! Great points on all fronts.

Things have been a bit of a mixed bag. 

I have had some things go well and some things less well. The last few days I made some mistakes. I masturbated with some pmo fantasy two times for two days in a row. That isn't good.

Oddly the cycle has been the same every single time in this new experiment.

1) I was masturbating, most days- And things were essentially good. Occasionally did a little too much.
2) Then  I decided I had to go two weeks without masturbating. Because that is the amount of time I first went "hard mode" and then was able to enjoy sex for the first time.
3) I go one day without masturbating, then the next day I fantasized about PMO or I Mo'd with P fetishes.

This last one was the strongest one, I mo'd two times two days in a row. Then I felt off and wanted to do it again this morning, I still MO'd but forced myself to fantasize about an ex girlfriend.

I can definitely see the negative effect of going back in that PMO fantasy direction stronger erections during the PMO fantasy and weaker erections during my "healthy" fantasies.


So, an odd thing I notice. When I have had the PMO fantasy slips, fantasizing or MO'ing while thinking of porn induced fetishes. I didn't feel good about it, but then when I would use willpower to fantasize about "healthier/ vanilla" sex I would feel better after and my emotions seemed to go back to a lot more grounded.

Now, again I don't want to minimize but I also don't want to get too extreme either.

Part of me had wanted to post here and be all upset and say that I have lost my will and didn't know what to do yadda yadda. But if I think more calmly, I see the same pattern again and again. I try and cut out MO then I slip, when I have not done that I have been mostly fine. Again, I think it is the odd psychological thing.

But here is the funny thing, I had family visit a few weeks ago and I naturally did not MO and it was no big deal. I think it's that psychological thing of making the commitment, feeling pressure and then all the weird "early in streak" stuff. Like oh well, it's only a one day streak so I may as well break it. BUT, by saying I couldn't MO, nor fantasy, nor PMO. I included all of those actions into that one "streak" so when I decide to break it's like "oh, I might as well fantasize about porn". Does that make sense?

So I suppose for now, I may as well try something different. I tried this "14 day no MO" thing a bunch of times. BUT, it clearly was not working. So, I guess I'll just stop that.

Now, I'll see where things go and am open to changing things up, but I've just had issue lately with the trying to cut out everything again.

This does not mean it won't still take discipline! Gotta very strictly control my thoughts with the MO. But I had found it was getting much easier before I tried to cut it out as well.


Here is an analogy: I had been eating a really strict diet for literally over a decade about 99% of the time, started just as I became a teenager. I wouldn't eat bread or any grains. Also no sugar and junk food. (called the paleo diet). It was a ton of work. I was convinced I had to eat that way or I would be fat because I "couldn't control myself and had to go all or nothing so if I could never eat certain foods it would prevent me from being fat". Plus I thought I felt better etc. I read books that said the paleo diet was correct, we should eat like cavemen etc. Turns out we don't really know what cavemen eat and most world class athletes historical geniuses, EVERY single person we have ever heard of ate lots of grain. Because that is the foundation of civilization.

I started to realize this, that the science was bogus. But had kept eating this way for years.

For weeks I had been craving rice and bread and was eating tons of other food to get over the cravings. Finally I consciously without punishing myself or being mad about it, decided "maybe grains are okay?" I still don't eat junk food, as that is clearly bad.

I started eating pasta, rice, bread. The funny thing, suddenly I eat less. I have some chicken with some rice, just one plate and I feel satisfied. I actually lost weight..... Been so convinced diets must be low carb or we'll be fat etc. I am eating less protein, more carbs and I lost fat, gained some muscle and had more energy. 

I also used to when I ate bread, sometimes end up binge eating or having junk food etc. but I realize that was all psychological.

Now it's not the exact same, but I have had this tendency, to create these obstacle for myself and these like "omg I have to be 110%" type of stuff.

Now, Porn is not natural it MUST be removed. That is 110%. The PMO fetishes have been damaging, I find shame in them and make my sexuality a bit "off" (not just the fetish, but it off is an odd compulsive thing, it's not ummm "real/ healthy" sexuality. So I want that stuff gone, with more aggression now.

MO with healthy fantasies- Literally it's just a matter of if it takes away from my life or makes my dick not work. Then it's a problem, but if not it's okay.

Me doing the 14 day thing, has been because I wanted to ensure my dick would work if I met a girl.

Now what I am thinking is, that has clearly not worked. Whether it not working is the problem OR I just need to kick myself in the butt. I am not 100% sure. For now what I am thinking is this: Attempt to listen to my body about masturbating or not, do cut out PMO and the fetish stuff and keep on eye on if the MO fantasy gets too wild.

Then, also be open to/ pursue (without going crazy about it) sex/ relationships with women. If my dick works/ can start to work. Great! If it doesn't/ I can't make it work then I may need to cut out MO again AND the "positive" of that is knowing myself that experience would get me back on track in a hurry.

Besides: If I am honest my last several sexual experiences even with streaks and going hard my dick didn't work too good either:

With virgin: Garbage erections GARBAGE. Actually some of the worst. I think that really contributed to not seeing her again. I was not erect for 80% of the time she was in my bed. I had not PMO'd for over a month but HAD PMO fantasized the day before (the fantasy about the fetishes is a proven erection killer so that has to go). She basically had to spend like a minutes to give me an erection anda  pleasurless blowjob. (Oddly the next day my dick had "come back to life" and I had a full erection for the first time in months (while talking to a girl).
About twoish years prior: Lost it mid sex, few week streak I think. Lasted a few min.

So basically, gonna just let whatever happens happen with a girl. Also going to start doing "pc" exercises. Working out the muscles, this used to give me really much stronger better erections. I did it while a virgin but noticed like substantially improved erections. I have not done it often for YEARS as I was afraid they'd stimulate me and trigger me to masturbate.

They are basically exercises to strengthen a muscle involved with erections. If you do not know what it is ASK ME IN THIS THREAD. I will post a guide either one I write or I'll copy and paste a good excerpt.

Just thinking the exercises themselves are not "sexual"/ pmo but I could imagine a google search could possibly bring up stories/ anecdotes etc. that could be triggering. So if anyone is curious just ask and I'll post in this thread so you don't have to google it.
Also, there is a risk as the exercises do create some slight stimulation so for those who have cut out MO be careful with them.


Goodness this is gonna be a long post. Sorry : )

Two last anecdotes: So I MO'd to PMO fantasy two nights in a row. I felt bad this am. I wanted to do it again, but instead made myself mo to a fantasy about a girl I used to date. Then I wanted to MO again. I was thinking of another girl trying to mo again. Then was losing my erection in the middle. I kept trying for a minute or so. Then I thought "I should PMO fantasy so I can finish!" I even thought "maybe I should look at some escort websites, just so I can get my erection back!".

I had the idea that I had to "finish" even thinking if I didn't "then I'll have urges and I won't be able to create a new no MO streak". Finally I just realized "Wait I CAN just stop" lol. I just stopped M'ing and it was fine, no urge no nothing.

So I do see the risk, like Picha mentioned. But it's odd how so easy it was to just stop when I didn't really want to and my body wanted to stop. Never did that in the past.

So, perhaps that is an educational lesson and what I can experiment with for the time being. Not these 14 day do or die streaks. Not needing to MO everyday or whatever, just trying to listen to my body.

I was thinking about, I saw a therapist briefly who was good. He said I was always turning pleasure into work or into pain. Making things so extreme that I couldn't enjoy them, I was 1000% percent I had to cut things out completely and talked about like all this brain science and compulsion etc. English was not his first language and he goes

"yes, yes the lizard brain.... but you are a person not a lizard" lol.
(Referring to the older parts of the brain I guess lol)

I did mess up with the slips of those few days but....

I have been eating bread etc. healthy grains. Last night I was super hungry and in a rush, i ended up getting chicken nuggets. It was gross: clearly processed and unhealthy I actually got the impulse like "omg I need to cut bread out again". No, just throw at the chicken nuggets lol.

So, that's a new mindset for me.

Anyways long ass post. I mean I spent a solid 4 years working on "hard mode" and did a pretty good job. I never completly "fell off the wagon or gave up on it". This is BY FAR the most I mo'd in many many years. I was non stop trying to have streaks. I actually (and this I am prod of) have not full on PMO'ed since 2015! I have looked at escort websites, maybe seen an hour or two worth of actual porn in total in that whole time and even looked at escort websites and masturbated soon after, but never looked at the screen and MO'd together. It may even be since 2014, thats a long time so damn long that I know it was in November and I am not 100% if it was 2015 or 2014 (probably 2014 in hindsight). So I am proud of that progress and intend to for sure go even further on the no P or Fetish junk. But I guess I can afford to spend a couple months playing with MOing etc.

Anyways CLIFF NOTES: Going to not try to cut out MO at all for a little bit. Will try and listen to instincts and hopefully have periods of not doing it just out of enjoying the break/ my body wanting to rest. (now for example did too much last few days, my body physicallly wants a break, but will not "force myself to do it" just try and be in tune.

Will do PC exercises daily. To make dick work/ hopefully be able to have pleasurable sex.

Going to start posting a bit more again.

Will be open to change: If this does not work, it doesn't work and back on the no PMO grind. That's an option for sure, but I am going to try and not think in extremes.

Also: Go for it with girls. If the dick doesn' work, it doesn't work. It's valuable data. I have had VERY LITTLE sex for years, partially out of always being on my streaks and projects and then nervous about will it work. Just gotta go for it, if my dick works or not it's data and motivation. Gotta fail first to succeed. (Thats how I got it working when it did work, it didn't work with a girl then it'd work with the next after some rewiring)- But not too much pressure to get girls. Life comes first, just not gonna like turn down opportunites and may decide to start pursuing girls a little again.

Also, I have a hypnosis recording for "masturbation addiction" that is supposed to teach moderation. I may give it a go, I never used it before out of horror that it was not focused on 100% abstinance. I also may skip it, will see. (Sounds good in theory but the same people have one for getting over a fetish it is was HORRIBLE) they actually make great relaxing recordings but I think this is an issue they didn't actually deal with so it was like 2nd hand info.

I do see the irony in my no PMO journal turning into like a goddamn masturbation journal lol.



 

pichaelthompson

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #237 on: June 14, 2019, 03:25:12 PM »
I value your willingness to try different things @quit, but I think it could sometimes be beneficial to not jump to conclusions too soon. I understand how "hard mode" can lead to multiple binges and unsatisfying sex, I have definitely been there way too many times. For me, I feel like I have gotten over certain humps when it comes to hard mode- noticing tendencies and anticipating when/how they will come, improving at letting urges come and go, channeling that energy into other things.

However, I think there is a higher level to this (for lack of a better term) where we genuinely don't WANT to PMO %99 of the time, or even WANT to fantasize, and the other 1% is an urge nothing more than a slight annoyance, an easy thing to overcome unless you have external factors in your life leading to stress. Of course to reach this, one must have to feel fulfilled in their relationships, career, and everything else. They know that there emotional and physical needs are met without any PMO, and are content with their "lot" in life. Look at the maker of this forum, Gabe Deem- I think he said it took 9 months for him to even get an erection with a woman, don't quote me on that though.

I am certainly nowhere near this, and it could take multiple years, maybe even decades. I know, it sounds ridiculous. But I believe this because of the many success stories I have heard from others on here, people going on hard mode for multiple years (obviously having sex with real people- would be impossible if not for that), finding love, and never PMOing again (or almost never). This might sound idealistic (and corny), but I feel compelled to believe that someday I'll find someone that will be the only person that I want to have sexual feelings towards. This is what I allow myself to fantasize about (among other things not related to PMO/sex), this is my compromise to myself to make hard mode just a bit easier. I do think fantasizing is healthy to a certain extent, but if it goes past what you want in real life than we are left chasing something that will never truly fulfill us. Think about, in a perfect world- if you were able to go for (lets say) a year without ANY PMO, would you be better for it? I know it seems impossible, but is it actually impossible? I can't answer that question personally as I have never even got to half a year.

As for the health analogy, I propose a different one- weight cycling. As you said before, many people have a tendency to lose weight, only to gain it all back due to factors such as stress from pushing too hard, or other responsibilities that lead to people compromising on their diets and skipping workouts. However, every time someone does this, the journey to lose weight gets a little bit harder because of the lost muscle and increased fat. In order to limit these cycles and have sustainable success, it's important to not push too hard, but I think it's even more important to consistently commit to it for a looooong time, much longer than our body or brain would tell us. I say this bc I am guilty of this, and I regret not sticking with it because I know in the long term dieting will improve my life as long as I am getting proper nutrition. Now I have the motivation to workout all the time, but the results are not nearly the same as they used to be. It'll for sure take longer than if I just kept going the first time, but I believe it is still possible if I keep at it both nutrition and health-wise. Now, I am not feeling the same benefits I once did compared to my first 90-day streak (I think I'm around there) but I have faith that this cycle is not permanently ingrained in me, and is something I can break through channeling the energy away from PMO.

Also, sex has been the best for me after long streaks of no P and no MO. Usually not the first few times, but once my brain starts to rewire it's like "oh wow this is what I'm really missing out on" lol

Sorry if I seem combative, I appreciate and respect your thoughts and think a healthy discussion on this topic is good for everyone. No matter what, you have my support %100 bc you know what is better for yourself obviously!

BlueHeronFan

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #238 on: June 14, 2019, 06:39:51 PM »
That was a long a post, lol, but it's always good to see what you have to say.

I think you're right on when it comes to listening to and working with your body. Fighting an addiction is already hard. We don't have to make it harder by being too extreme.

I've probably already made it clear that I'm in the no-MO camp. Like pichaelthompson, I'm not trying to pick a fight. You know what's working for you and what your journey to this point has been like. I guess I have a couple of thoughts to add though.

First, I guess I worry a little bit if MO is a compulsive behavior. If you're turning to it when you're stressed out or bored but not when you're distracted and around loved ones, it makes me wonder if it's a healthy part of your life or just an unhealthy coping mechanism. For me, it's not just about quitting PMO but also about dealing with stress and anxiety without having to rely on the endorphins from O to get through life. I don't know, and I don't want to tell you what to do, but it might be worth asking whether you are in charge of the MO or it's in charge of you. If it's in charge, it doesn't seem like much of a friend after all.

I'm also not sure binges are a sign that something isn't working. Before I started recovery, I never "binged." I just PMOed multiple times a day most days. I wasn't worried about relapses, I wasn't counting streaks, and I was never up all night PMOing. But I was also deep in addiction. I have only experienced binges since trying to fight this thing. So I don't know, is MOing regularly better than trying not to but slipping up and MOing more intensely at greater intervals? That's not a question I can answer for you (but I know the answer for me).

And I think extreme-ness is more about mindset than behavior. Right now, I'm probably more "extreme" than I ever have been before: I have content filters on my devices, I'm posting here almost daily, no porn, no masturbation, no edging, no fantasies, no staring at girls around town just to stare. I have never hit this thing so hard. But, I have also never been so understanding and gentle with myself either. When a thought comes to mind or a girl walks past, instead of yelling at myself and repressing the little pleasure that makes me want more, I just say, yeah, that's an interesting thing, but it isn't going to take me where I want to go. It's not worth the trouble. For me, romantic fantasies always lead to sexual fantasies and then to porn fantasies and then to PMO. It's not that romantic fantasies are bad by themselves. It's just that I have learned that I can't play around with them without getting into trouble. Long story short: for me, 100% abstinence isn't extreme, it's normal for a lot of people. Where I find myself worrying about being too extreme is in my mindset and attitude towards myself: if I'm beating myself up, I'll end up feeling so bad that I turn to PMO to cope. If I'm more compassionate with myself, I can get much closer to 100% abstinence without feeling too uncomfortable with it.

So, there's my two cents. But, before I go, I had no idea that you've been away from full on PMO for so long. That by itself is pretty awesome, even if there has still been junk going on since then. Congrats for that, and just keep making progress. Find what works, hold yourself accountable, and press forward. That's all any of us can do!

Quitforeverthenwin

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #239 on: June 15, 2019, 10:53:00 AM »
Thanks man! Definitely appreciate your two cents. For me I am happy to take in both of your inputs and happy to make adjustments moving forward. That is very good food for thought especially about if it's being used to allay feelings.


Update: So last nights I thought to MO but then didn't really feel like it and did not. This morning I had some pretty good morning wood.

Yesterday evening I went to an awesome yoga class, I felt super relaxed afterward. I was walking and made eye contact with a girl, we started talking and then went to sit down at a cafe. She wanted to sit outside even though it was rainy and shitty out there. I agreed then a homless/crazy guy sat near us and started saying gibberish trying to talk to me. I tried to get the girl to move and then she was nice but said she had to go.

I had felt bad about that, thinking like maybe I should be able to idk like tell off the homless guy and get us to leave us alone and wasn't manly enough or something lol. I was pretty upset about that. But now that I am calmer about it. I think it wasn't that big a deal the guy talking to us, he was just a crazy guy trying to be friendly and it happened because we were in a bad date location.... sitting outside in bad weather where reasonable people would not sit.

I should not have agreed to us sitting outside and I did so because I was afraid to lose the girl, if I were comfortable and confident I would playfully be like, it's wet outside you are crazy!

So thats a nice insight, the problem was earlier on, not leading and being nervous "playing to not lose" rather then to win. Saying no to sitting outside may have lost the girl but it also gave me the chance of us talking in a nice environment. Sitting outside was just not a nice environment and was a weak move so I would have lost the girl either way. So thats the lesson there, take the risk.


pichaelthompson

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #240 on: June 15, 2019, 02:49:08 PM »
I don't blame you at all, I'm %100 I would've done the same thing if she told me she wanted to move outside. Too bad for the homeless guy, I would chalk that up to bad luck more than anything else. Super impressed (and a little bit jealous) of your ability to make eye contact and approach women, keep it up!

BlueHeronFan

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #241 on: June 15, 2019, 07:15:32 PM »
Oh no, sorry about the crazy guy. But congrats on getting to the point where a crazy guy could ruin a date (still a win!)

I know the feeling, and I think pichael and I were talking about something similar in his journal (if I'm remembering right): one side-effect of my recovery efforts is that I have more self-esteem, I guess. Instead of feeling like I'd be lucky to get any girl, I'm starting to realize that I don't have to settle for just anyone. I am definitely the kind of person who would just go with the flow in order to risk losing her, but I'm learning that I don't have to do that anymore. I'm getting a little better at sticking up for myself because I'm starting to recognize my own good qualities (seeing past my PMO problem).

So better luck next time, man! Keep making progress and recognizing your own good qualities. And make the girls feel like they should sit inside so they don't risk losing you lol!

Quitforeverthenwin

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #242 on: June 19, 2019, 12:46:33 PM »
Thanks guys! Good perspective just to think of this stuff in terms of bad luck, I tend to make it personal and think it'll always happen.

"OMG, if a crazy guy interrupted my talking to a girl then it will always happen and I'll never be able to date".

A bit of a down patch, but luckily it is less of a down then previously.

It rained for about a week straight also, I have been on and off sick for months now, it seems. Had some congestion, thats gone but whole body is achy. I think I have some sort of infection that my body has been trying to keep at bay for literally two months or so.

Sigh.... Hopefully I'll have some health insurance soon. I have some in the state I moved from, which covers an emergency room visit, it'd be a high copay but maybe I ought to go just to try and get some antibiotics or to just suck it up if they say I am fine.

On the plus side, I am aiming to accept my situation, I'm not going to die or anything and I'll have health insurance again in the future so I'll be able to get better eventually.

Being okay with doing a little less for a few days. I stayed home and read for the entire evening after work yesterday.

Did over do the mo yestarday for sure though. Going to take a break from it. I must admit last night it was mostly out of boredom and not some healthy sexuality.

Today is sunny again and I have off a bit of a bummer that I feel sick. (my voice also still hurts). But thinking I'll go to the beach and rad a bunch of then aim to go to a yoga class this evening, it's a gentle class and even when sick I have felt better after just about every yoga class I got to.


BlueHeronFan

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #243 on: June 19, 2019, 04:52:14 PM »
Sorry you aren't feeling well! Be sure to take care of yourself.

I know I always feel like I have to go at 110% top speed even when I'm sick. Part of what I've been working on is being okay with taking things a little slower and recognizing that rest is also an important part of being productive.

It sounds like you have some good plans, though. Keep working at it and reflecting on your experiences. Staying engaged in the process is a big help.

Quitforeverthenwin

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #244 on: July 05, 2019, 05:33:42 PM »
Man, sorry to be one of those disappearing ones. Didn't realize it had been so damn long. Wasn't doing well, then wanted to build a streak and be gun blazing killing it. Well.... you guys are right Masturbation is out.....

I guess, I'll get caught up more later, and see what you all are up to.

Day 0.


pichaelthompson

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #245 on: July 05, 2019, 06:05:14 PM »
Sorry to hear you weren't doing well Quit, but it's good to hear from you! Since my last relapse (a couple weeks ago I think?) I haven't tried to do anything really that different since I felt like alot of what I was doing was working, but I did make some minor changes such as valuing consistency every day over maximizing productivity. It has helped me feel more even-keeled, not getting too extremely high or low. Best of luck to you on your new streak!

BlueHeronFan

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #246 on: July 05, 2019, 06:25:17 PM »
Hey, man, sorry to hear it,  but glad you're back.

Day 0 can be a bummer, but it's also a new opportunity to get a fresh start. You've never had a day 0 with so much experience and knowledge before. It could be easy to think about starting again with an "if only" mindset (I do it often enough), but the fact is that everyone is on their own path to recovery. In getting back to this day 0, you have learned some things that will help you to be stronger moving forward.

Keep at it!

Quitforeverthenwin

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #247 on: July 06, 2019, 09:46:51 PM »
Thanks so much guys! The support means a lot.
Glad to be back. Felt some guilt about being gone so long but, nothing I can do but be back and move forward.

That night was rough and the lapse continued. Toughish day today.
 
A few positives:
Contacted a therapist, I think that could be a help.
Went on the beach for a walk- Actually was not too positive BUT the positive that came is to ummmm not do that again lol. So I thought a long walk on the beach would be a good idea, but I really spent the walk just stewing in my mind and making myself feel bad about myself felt much better afterward.


Step 1) Get through tonight.

At some point will set aside the time to read what I have missed in your journals....

Edit (some hours later): Some noise in the apartment next door irritated me and I got the thought of an urge. Just posting here instead.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2019, 10:56:59 PM by Quitforeverthenwin »

Quitforeverthenwin

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #248 on: July 07, 2019, 12:52:47 PM »
Day 2

Well, that is nice. On day 2. Was feeling a bit upset but aimed to remind myself, there are areas I am progressing in:

My back and shoulder had been hurting
I have been doing rehab exercises everyday and now, after a few weeks my back no longer hurts and my shoulder feels much better! That is some nice progress.... That is one area of my life that is progressing

pichaelthompson

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #249 on: July 07, 2019, 05:40:39 PM »
Hey man, I'm super proud of you for continuing to keep going and fighting. I hope later on you can feel there is no reason to feel ashamed or angry at yourself, we all have the strength to move forward. Reading through your journal these past few months have shown me you definitely are able to go through some shit and keep getting better and progressing...I think you'll be able to get right back on track and reach your goals if you just keep your head up and truly believe that you can do this!