Author Topic: My journal to recovery- Could use support  (Read 4125 times)

Quitforeverthenwin

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #200 on: May 21, 2019, 02:04:32 AM »
Woke up in middle of night with some pretty strong urges. Feeling like I NEED SEX NOW. Which is obviously very irrational and is purely an urge thought that leads to other bad places. I went to rest room, brushed teeth to freshen up and have been reading a bit. Once I got back in bed I felt I wanted to fantasize but here I am posting instead to break up the thought pattern (good). I did not take the time to sit down and write/ do some smart stuff.

Now I am COMMITTING. It's nice I had an easy week, now I need to do a bit more. So that's what I'll do.

Edit: Went to success stories and read one and watched this Gabe Deem video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4yx4ouxGbQ

Been so long since I watched this stuff/ researched and it gave me good perspective. Remember what is happening also a reminder that this road is a long one. Good I am building up a social circle and not only focused on dating.... it'll likely be awhile before I am having a really robust sex life! I forgot about flatlines after orgasms etc.

It got me thinking
1) It could be nice to find a rewire partner/ cuddle buddy. Since that was necessary for me to regain erections in past. (So perhaps I can come up with a plan on this front)
2) Perhaps I can continue putting more into other areas of my life. Since though I don't want to accept it, it could be awhile before a robust sex life is part of my life. Takes a looonngggg time to be able to have sex often it seems (for many people at least). I ought to not think about it, it takes as long as it takes. Anyway, but perhaps I can get more work stuff going, get a side hustle going, things to feel good about. Just keeping to build up my life.
3) Okay, it may be something that REALLY needs to be controlled, but I am considering a tiny bit of online dating (or maybe I should find something else). Since I would like some more dating experience in a lower risk environment. Maybe find a more conservative platform even? Even something for religous girls so I could rewire? That may be a good idea.... Try and go on dates with religous girls develop companionship/ rewire. I actually met a girl this way years ago, she was open to casual dating just not having sex before marriage. Honestly if I can find a girl like that for awhile, casually dating sex off the table, rewiring that could be ideal.

Aside from that: as mentioned, rededicate! It is so critical I keep moving forward, I am still on track but let's get even more on track. Like I was a few days ago with less of these thougths popping into my head, get that morning wood again etc. And have those fetishes lose their appeal  more and more.

Edit: I keep thinking to myself... it's 7:00pm tinder would be busy I should quickly make an account and maybe get a date tonight!!!! Then my mind starts going to---> I don't have the right photos, I should just go on there with whatever and try and get a girl interested in PMO fetishes. So obviously this is NOT a healthy impulse. GRRRR I had a plan this evening that was a really good idea but it got cancelled, kind of bummed out. What to do What to do... Really not sure. Feeling desperate and lonely .
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 06:08:26 PM by Quitforeverthenwin »

Quitforeverthenwin

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #201 on: May 21, 2019, 06:05:04 PM »
So, I don't feel as well as I did last week BUT I want to make sure I remember how good I felt. That week or so was enough to show me, at least I am for sure not brain damaged or anything like that. I can be calmer and happier.

Two days ago I did not do my hypnosis recording and yestarday I could not focus during it. Not sure how much that contributed since yesterday was a more down day for sure. I have work again coming up tomorrow, perhaps that'll be a nice boost for me. I also should not forget that I am doing a good amount of the right things and sure I am in in a dip, feeling sadder again some of that anxiety in the chest, but it stinks but it is not as bad as it was last time.

I texted two of my new friends, no answers yet. Really made me anxious, but someone else texted me there number, an aquaintance from the building, they are leaving my city soon BUT, shouldn't I still be grateful for that?

A little frustrated with my anxious feelings, worrying about people getting back to me, whether they will etc. Building up the social circle is good but also I think having a path/purpose may be really good for me too. I was watching this video one of these dating guru types, some of what he said seemed relevant. Saying when you have a purpose and a path you don't care so much if people respond to you etc. since you are on your path. That may be good for me getting more and more purposeful and goal driven, making things happen....

Also, maybe a little more approaching women could be good? I kind of stopped that and although I want other ways to meet women, my ummm idk leads of women has really dried up lol.

BlueHeronFan

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #202 on: May 21, 2019, 06:19:56 PM »
Sorry you're a little down: it's got me today too. But I do like the idea of remembering how good you felt last week. I could definitely do that more. I could also afford to COMMIT more (I like the all caps). I'm trying to figure out the difference between a relaxing day and a wasted day, and I think some commitment would help, like even a little schedule to help me know that I'm at least making progress and not just waiting for time to pass.

Glad you're making progress, though, and thinking clearly through the triggers/urges. Just being able to step back and realize what is going on is huge. Urges have always won out when I failed to step back and realize what was happening, so keep it up!

And you're welcome! The blank spaces are great, and I think it's cool that they have a similar effect for you too as you write them.

pichaelthompson

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #203 on: May 21, 2019, 08:47:46 PM »
That's some really good insight, I often find that I am good at having a purpose and path at some things (like my music, working out, eating healthy) and not so much at others (connecting with people). I'm trying to find a better way to integrate friends (and eventually a relationship) into my purpose and path, as good relationships can help with all other facets of life. At the same time though, you don't necessarily need anyone to be awesome and accomplish amazing things, so if you are able to set goals on your own and achieve them, I think the feeling of neediness gets less...while the desire for others may still be there it can be easier to channel towards positive actions since you can feel like you can take risks and the worse that happens is you'll just be your normal, awesome self again rather than feeling like you are returning to your sad, miserable life.

Sorry if this is just random thinking lol, you're doing great dealing with unpleasant feelings and finding solutions for them! After everything I just said, I am still in the process of figuring things out (and always may be) but part of life is just having goals and beliefs only to change them and go in a new direction later.

Quitforeverthenwin

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #204 on: May 22, 2019, 08:08:49 PM »
Thanks for the support guys! Not in the mood to write too much, so I may be a bit brief.

But both of you nails on the head. Scheduling is huge (did some today) and I think I really do need more of a purpose.

Still on the path, though it is rough. Worked through smart manual today for 30 min. First time in awhile. My emotions were not there with me, but I suppose repetition will fix that. Went for a run, felt better during it.

Had a girl flake, not happy but handled it fairly well. I am slightly annoyed with myself because I feel like I could see it coming. I just got triggered for a second.

Anyways, the good is I had a very productive day. Not sure what the rest of the evening holds......

Also: Being on a path is SOOO key! Need that and higher standards of women I go for. If I felt I had options many of the women I pursue I would not even consider

Quitforeverthenwin

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #205 on: May 22, 2019, 11:13:41 PM »
Feeling a bit better. Some urges popping up here and there. .

Quitforeverthenwin

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #206 on: May 23, 2019, 02:04:53 AM »
Well, I had a sort of slip. Bummer. I had really strong urges, fell into fantasy for a minute then went back to it. Almost posted here but did not, sort of wish I did now.

The slip could have been worse: I went on an escort website and looked at the adds there for about 10 minutes and saw about 5 seconds of a clip of one of them other then that it was images. Did not watch videos other then that or go on any porn websites. No masturbation. I am a little bummed out like fuck man you want your dick to work! That moves away from that goal.... But, again being upset won't help anything. It could have been way way worse, and if there is any upside, it is that I did not enjoy any of it all that much. I fantasized and did not enjoy it as much, then I went and looked at images and did not enjoy it as much either.

The one negative is.... honestly the urge was very very powerful and the slip did provide relief. Hmmmm, thats sort of an issue.

Well, I guess I can look at it like this: It is all a process of improvement. I got as far as I could get on that current streak, now I am starting a new one (sort of). I think perhaps I will categorize this mentally maybe not as a streak ended, as I looked at some images and fantasized but did not watch PMO videos nor tough my penis at all. I think that may be a better way to categorize it. I noticed mentally having the desire to MO when I thought of it as a slip. But really it is not the same thing at all, MOing would REALLY break my streak and be devastating. So I'll view this as a moderate mis step then rather then a lapse.

On to tomorrow then! Sill, gotta stay vigilant as I still feel the urge to MO right now. But let's remember why I am here.... I haven't lost everything my dick probably still works right now and these fetishes and PMO would lead me down the drain!

Also, I suppose I'll make some sort of adjustment to my program..... This certainly did not happen for my lack of trying...... I put in more into today then I have in sometime. Grrr. Too much thinking. At the end of the day, if there was a gun to my head I would not have done that. Really, their is one and only one solution. I have got to toughen back up and be tougher next time.

Quitforeverthenwin

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #207 on: May 23, 2019, 02:11:16 AM »
One other thing. I think I need to be more optimistic and control my mind more. Even night I was waking up at 2:30 am even writing that is already putting me into "wimp mode". Like it's just like "waaahhhh I wake up with incredibly strong urges already in fantasy not even knowing what is going on."

I ought to be more proactive and positive. "Well, that happened for a few nights but fuck it, I DOUBT it'll happen tonight and if it does, I will immediately jump out of bed and get out of my room and it'll be gone in a second".

See that right there is the solution (I want to put was, but I can not change the past). Like- Okay, I know the urges have been waking me up in the middle of the night. I could handle that shit in like 5 minutes. Have the plan as soon as they wake me up. IMMEDIATELY get out of bed and go for a walk for just 5 min and that'd be enough to handle it. It's almost like being in a trance, but it's easy enough to break IMO. So, now I have a plan. Next time that happens. IMMEDIATELY out of bed.

Good thing I did not PMO/MO. Really the problem came down to arrogance. I had weak/ minimal urges for sometime so I forgot how to handle them..... get my self out of bed (like there is a damn rattlesnack in my bed!) and do something else. It seems hard but once out of bed it really isn't.

pichaelthompson

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #208 on: May 23, 2019, 07:33:24 AM »
Nice job figuring out ways to deal with urges. Yeah I've also had times where I've slipped up and looked at women online, wether it be tinder, google images, youtube. etc. One strategy I like to use (when I get the urge to do something questionable) is think of my ideal self- the person I hope to be one day, and ask "what would this guy do; right now, in this situation?" It kind of removes the self from the emotional pull of it all and makes you think and just answer a question with more logic. I got this strategy from Marcus Aurelius' philosophy of stoicism, which is based on always doing what's right regardless of thoughts and feelings, bc if you do that your thoughts and feelings will improve on there on (as we all know though, it is not a direct path and it takes longer than we hope). Sending good vibes!

Lero

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #209 on: May 23, 2019, 07:41:52 AM »
Nice job figuring out ways to deal with urges. Yeah I've also had times where I've slipped up and looked at women online, wether it be tinder, google images, youtube. etc. One strategy I like to use (when I get the urge to do something questionable) is think of my ideal self- the person I hope to be one day, and ask "what would this guy do; right now, in this situation?" It kind of removes the self from the emotional pull of it all and makes you think and just answer a question with more logic. I got this strategy from Marcus Aurelius' philosophy of stoicism, which is based on always doing what's right regardless of thoughts and feelings, bc if you do that your thoughts and feelings will improve on there on (as we all know though, it is not a direct path and it takes longer than we hope). Sending good vibes!

This came exactly at the right moment. I just relapsed because I failed to deal with the urges. This has been a problem for me for the last two weeks. But you know what's ironic? I actually know what to do but for some reason, I did nothing. I sat in the chair like a lazy motherfucker. I had things to do, I could've done them, but instead I let myself slip to downloading a movie. I am trying not to repeat the same mistakes again. That's the idea. Remove all the ways you mistake until you don't mistake at all. But you have to pay attention.

I like the idea of thinking about the ideal self. "What would this guy do?" My ideal self would not download the movie. But I will get there, eventually. Next time I won't just sit in front of the computer and let the urges dominate me. I have to think about something to do.

Quitforeverthenwin

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #210 on: May 23, 2019, 09:28:07 AM »
Thanks Pichael! That is a really good tip. Also what a coincidence, I was interested in reading some stocicism and literally last night bought Letter's from a stoic by senecca! I also saw some of marcus arelius' books on the shelf's, so I will check out some of his books as well for sure.

I felt just a little ashamed, but glad to have the support and see that stuff like this is not necessarily the end of the world. Now, I realize I was making errors and have to make some adjustments to my program, positive adjustments really.

The problem boils down to one main thing: I put 100% effort into the "helpful things", so much effort that it was to the detriment of the NECESSARY things.


So, I had made several commitments on here to go two weeks without fantasizing about the fetish's I didn't make it. SO, I wrote the goal down privately and read it everyday, it was helpful BUT I also made my goal, no thinking of sex at all while in bed and really I was trying to eliminate every sexual thought in my head and felt like I was almost lapsing if I thought sexually at all.

I would have thoughts of a real girl and things we talked about pop into my head and I was treating it like was the devil pushing it out of my head.

Now we do know, this is can be a slippery slope, but I seem to have confused myself: The thing to do was to be cautious and not over do it. Rather then trying to make myself completely A-Sexual. This worked for like 9 days but after that I went nuts. The problem is for me, is I had looking at images online, fetishes and thinking about a real women in the same category THEY ARE NOT. Too much thinking about real women could be a trigger but I can have some sexual thoughts.

Not 100% how to describe but I guess it's like the "fuck it" phenomenon. We all know if we slip, so MO once, it's easy to say "fuck it" and slip again.  I put "any thought of a woman" almost in the slip category so me getting any sexual thoughts had me feel like I was already losing it. So basically I over extended putting huge effort into something and neglecting.

2) Handling REAL urges and having a plan. Simple, I already know what to do. PMO FETISH, MO or PMO urges = distract self. Get out of bed, work on a skill briefly etc. That is how to defeat an urge.

So rather then using up all my mental energy trying to have 0 sexual thoughts, keep my eyes on the prize... it's okay for me to think about women JUST be careful about it and keep it in moderation. Put that energy into the really important shit eliminating what I consider actual ummm loses of PMO sobriety.
PMO
Fetish fantasy
Acting on PMO fetish's
And fantasy stinks but is less bad then the rest.

ALSO: On point two, I have been very focused on motivation. I wrote down things to motivate myself, but lately had been neglecting the MOST IMPORTANT processes, the nuts and bolts... I was staying motivated, living a healthy lifestyle, wrote in the smart book to aid myself, but could have been reviewing, rather then just my motivations.... what to actual do at the most basic to stay clean: Having a plan of action/ ideas of what to do, when urges occur. (Since I seem to have forgotten).

Lastly, I was treating myself like I had no control over myself if that makes sense. Like, I used tinder for a long time without a problem, in one particular way..... i had tinder gold, where it shows you who swiped on you. I simply NEVER would look at pictures, just see who swiped on me very briefly and that was that. Not to say tinder isn't a risk but idk basically my general point is.... I put so much effort into avoiding all RISKS that I think I subconciously forgot that I had control of myself, so when I had the urges I forgotten how to have self control... make sense? On top of that I simply wasted a ton of energy and can simplify.

Cliffs: Do the crucial: No PMO, no MO, no fetish fantasy, no fetish with partners (rarely comes up). The rest be a little more laissez faire, but just be aware nothing leads to too strong urges.




BlueHeronFan

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #211 on: May 23, 2019, 05:32:49 PM »
Sorry about the slip, but way to keep it from being as bad as it could have been. Keep at it (not that you need me to say it): I would hardly call this a step backwards.

Man, though, your last post raises some tough issues that I've been thinking about on and off for a while. Like, for one, the goal of recovery definitely can't be to become asexual, but it can feel like that sometimes. I don't have much to say that's productive, but I feel that. For such a long time every sexual thought that I've had has basically led me to unhealthy behavior, so what even is a healthy sexual thought? What is healthy sexuality when you're one your own? If you figure that out, let me know. But I know just trying to shut it all down is definitely not a road to success.

I also think a lot about the balance between external controls and internal ones. We go to a lot of trouble sometimes to block our browsers and delete apps and everything else to take away our access to porn. But then is that really progress because we're getting better or just because we don't have access to P? Sometimes, I've found myself thinking that I shouldn't have any blockers or anything so that I learn how to deal with things on my own instead of relying on filters and stuff. But I remember hearing someone say once that we do things like lock our doors and buy security systems for our houses to protect ourselves from physical threats, so why not install filters on our browsers to keep clear of addictive threats? They can't replace our own efforts at recovery, but I do know they help. It seems like the first step to a period of constant relapses is acting like I don't need the filters anymore.

Quitforeverthenwin

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #212 on: May 24, 2019, 12:31:09 AM »
Quickly going to acknowledge so NUTTY thoughts I was having just now. Going to shut that stuff down. The little slip caused a bit of a chaser effect.

I do appreciate you saying keep at it! Always helpful and thanks! I was feeling a bit bad and like I took a step back. Time to get back on it.

I really appreciate your thoughts, because whenever you flesh something out like this it gets me thinking and aids me in reflecting on my own recovery. This is one issue that has a simple answer for me....

OF course we should use the filters... I wish I could figure out how to get them on my phone.... At the end of the day, if it works it works. Speaking of internal controls... if our mind is on board to do something, quit pmo or whatever, wouldn't it make sense for our mind to seek out and use every possible resource available to it? If filters work, I can not think of any practical reason to not use them, any good rationalization.

It reminds me of this: I had a friend who got really fat. He got all excited about losing weight and said he was going to do it. I went to his house and he had junk food in all of the cabinets.... We were both all excited and planned on working out together and eating healthy and stuff (I was going to do this to support him and it's good to do anyway). I am like "yeah bro awesome let's throw out all of this junk food!". He said "No, I want to keep it here... what if my little brother comes here and wants to eat it... I want to feel in control like I can have the junk food here and not like I have to throw it out and can't control it".

I said okay, but silently sighed to myself, I knew 100% that he was going to eat that junk food. A year later, he is just as fat. ( I may sound a little harsh, but this is the guy who I stopped talking to since he was ignoring me all the time and I had gone on the diet with HIM just to support him and he repaid me by ignoring me for months and  being irritable to me , when I guess he fell off the wagon).

Anyway, point being. It's simpler with junk food. I don't eat it so keep that shit out of the house! I haven't had junk food, even a little in many months, my father visited and left some cookies here, I was tempted to eat them one day.... so i threw them out.

Bottom line: Practical. Whatever works to cut out pmo works. No reason to make extra challenges. Because if the internal is right, we want it gone. Let's use every tool there is.  Just the way I see it.

In my situation, thinking about sex too much can be bad. But for now, thinking about REAL woman as my motivation, normally is bad but is keeping me from another slip (which would be real bad) so I'll  think about real women for now. Not like fantasy, thinking about what I want. How nice it'll be have working penis, connections with women, confidence all that.

BlueHeronFan

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #213 on: May 24, 2019, 06:26:15 PM »
Good to acknowledge the thoughts! Shut it on down!

Always glad to hear my rambling is helpful, lol. I like the point about your friend who is still fat. I know in the past I've tried to come back from a relapse and put up blockers and stuff but then I'd spend a lot of time thinking about the kinds of things I'd search for next, like "If I ever lapsed again, not that I would, but if I did, I'd totally search for _____." Total garbage. Telling myself I won't relapse while planning my next binge. The things we tell ourselves when we're out of control. I'm happy to say that I don't have a plan for my next relapse: I really actually don't want to have one now.

And you're spot-on with thinking too much about sex. It has gotten me so many times, just a thought here or there about what it would be like to have sex in a stable, healthy relationship, but then it leads to other thoughts that make my brain feel good and the next thing I know I'm in trouble. It's tough, but it's good to be aware of. When I do think about relationships, I try to make sure I'm not fantasizing about sex, but it still happens, just not as much.

Also (because I haven't written enough yet), just a couple thoughts about blockers for the phone. First, I set up the parental controls on mine so that I only have access to specific whitelisted websites that I use regularly. That's helpful because then there aren't any "gaps" that I can find my through: everything is blocked. That's been helpful for me, especially since I set my password to be something that I really want that PMO seems to be in the way of: now whenever I feel like turning off the controls, I have to think through losing the thing that is my password.

I've also had a lot of success with OpenDNS. It's a free thing that you can set up either on your router or on your devices, and I think it has been the most helpful filter for me. It just shuts it all down: there are various settings for different content that you want blocked and then it just makes it so that you can't load any of those sites. Not a solution for when you're not home, but I only have trouble at home anyway. (We might have already talked about this now that I've written out...if so, what a lucky repeat)

Quitforeverthenwin

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #214 on: May 24, 2019, 11:41:41 PM »
Sorry guys: I just really did lapse. Unequivocally my day count is at 0.

Warning: You are going to see some of my real demons in the description below, I left out triggering words I believe, but it's gonna show that legit messed up addiction side of me.

I did a host of nonsense. Ending with me going back on an escort website website and calling one to see if she would engage in pmo fetishes and tentatively set an appointment. Then I was like holy fuck! This is way way worse. So I told her sorry, it's a no go. Then I was in bed feeling strong urges. I thought to myself "I can cum from humping my pillow". I again, will be real. I thought to myself: I will just like do that rub myself against the pillow to cum and then in my journal I can say I had a wet dream and euphemistically be like "oh yeah I think I was rubbing against my pillow at night when I was half asleep". Basically lie to act like it was not a real slip. After finishing, I immediately just masturbated the normal way, my penis was totally flaced and I got like no pleasure out of it but somehow came.

This all started with 1) Going on escort website- and let me be real- I specifically looked for escorts who offered fetishes and stuff. Really that was as porn as anything . I bullshited myself and the journal. It was not like looking at youtube vids, that for me is like the worst porn. Since I fantasize about contacting them and actually have in the past.

Then, the next day I downloaded tinder. Was on it totally compulsively for like a few hours. Even with not swiping pictures, I kept using boosts and was compulsively checking it, which left me with really strong urges to go back on escort websites. I managed to get a very unnattractive girl's number and was messaging her trying to lead her into being into pmo fetishes, she was not. But in my mind she was.

She came over. It was miscommunication she wanted a relationship (by coming straight to my place at 11 on a friday lol) and I wanted a hookup. She expressed disappointment and told me she is broke and could barely afford the uber over. (Sad girl really). We chatted a bit and I got her an uber back home. Then soon after I ummmm, kept looking at my phone and thinking "I should contact escort" that happend maybe three times then I did and you all know the rest.

So that's it. I officially have lapsed. Let me be honest too, I lapsed twice. My stuff about tinder being maybe okay was nonsese lol. (I should have noticed in seeing EVERYONE agreeing it's good to STAY AWAY). I feel bad to let you guys down and hope i didn't discourage anyone.

I don't feel hopeless at all. It is what it is. Perhaps this will be the last time in my life that this ever happens.

LeanAndBop

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #215 on: May 25, 2019, 02:44:59 AM »
Hey Quit
Sorry this happened. Hope you are OK. Really wasn't shocked or appalled at anything I read. I can relate to the desperation. At least you are sharing it, this is surely positive.
Wishing you all the best
Bop

Quitforeverthenwin

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #216 on: May 25, 2019, 08:05:49 AM »
Well the relapse continued,

Before I go into the craziness: Thanks so much leanandbop! That means a ton. I feel like when I write the really crazy shit people are going to read it and be like "oh fuck this guy is way more crazy and messed up then I thought... I don't want to read this shit anymore!". Also thanks for keeping up posting on your journal when you had that rough patch it's really a big part of the inspiration for me to continue posting



More craziness:

 I masturbated several times this am. With not much resistance. Urge: Then did it. Wrote a long post analyzing a lot of things, I wrote about how maybe I shouldn't try and date so many girls and should just focus on a relationship and then put all that energy into business, then I thought "Hey! Maybe if I succeed in business and am not going to date a bunch of girls, I could just make money and pay escorts all the time!" Then I masturbated on that thought.  Well, if I can have one positive.... In all the years I have been fighting this I have never fully quit. I have looked at porn, I have masturbated. I have even texted or called escorts as some strange compulsion. But at least I have not masturbated while looking at porn since 2015.

Anyways- Lessons:
Over analysis maybe not helpful?
Start meditating again! EVERYDAY- Feeling like it or convenience be damned. I MUST DO THIS to be aware enough to handle my urges. Simple as that.
Have a mental program- meditating plus probably visualizing and/or hypnosis EVERYDAY. None of this "I make things to hard, I should ease off"---> That is how my fat friend thinks and I think I absorbed some of his thinking. What works for me is just do the work. Part of the sobriety is meditating each day simple as that.


Edit: Midday now- At least any thought that doing this stuff was okay has been proven wrong. Feel so drained like moving is tough.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2019, 01:06:33 PM by Quitforeverthenwin »

Quitforeverthenwin

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #217 on: May 25, 2019, 01:10:10 PM »
Was thinking of K-dot's journal.... as inspiration. He mentioned he had several 100+ day streaks 60+ day streaks etc. and now he is where I want to be.... so get back to it. Maybe I should write here a bit less though.... Not stop, but do less.

I think, I was thinking about it too much. For sure honestly. Better to mostly live as if it does not exist...

BlueHeronFan

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #218 on: May 25, 2019, 05:10:00 PM »
Quit! Sorry to hear about it. I don't think you're any more crazy or messed up than any of the rest of us: we're all dealing with addiction, and we all know that it just takes over sometimes. Whenever I lapse, it's like a different part of me switches on, and I'm just looking up and doing all kinds of things that "real" me wouldn't do, no resistance, no trying to stop myself, just a flood of garbage, and I end up on the other side wondering how it happened. Really sorry all this happened, sorry that it escalated to include other people too. But I'm glad you're still in it and that you have a plan for moving forward.

Real talk, though: you've already said it, but you saw this coming from a mile way. It didn't have to happen, but it did get to the point where the addiction took over. I usually see my lapses coming from a mile away, too. I spend some time "flirting" with non-PMO stuff until it just takes over and that's it. I'm toast. This might be a weird thing to say, but it might be helpful to acknowledge that you *like* PMO. For me, I thought for a long time that I was trying to train myself not to like it, so every time I had a fun (sexual) thought or a feeling of arousal, I was like, "oh, guess I still like it...guess I'll go find some porn." But who wouldn't like it? It's a whole thing our brains have evolved to perpetuate the species: we're supposed to like it! But that "like" is out of control. So, for me lately, I've been focusing less on trying to stop "liking" PMO and more on trying to be aware of when I'm at risk of being taken over by that like and what I can do to redirect. It has made me far more careful about little pleasure triggers, women on TV or around town, etc., because I still have control then. Those feelings of sexual pleasure have started to become a warning system instead of a guilty pleasure.

I'm still working at it, and I'm far from perfect. Thinking like this has helped me, though, to be more in tune with what is going on in my mind and body. If I start to feel those sexual (addictive) feelings, I recognize that I'm in trouble when I can still do something about it. If I spend too much time with those "harmless" pleasures, it doesn't take long before they take over. So I just have to ask myself, do I want a life without PMO more, or do I want to keep these "harmless" pleasures more? I probably can't have both.

So take it for what it's worth. We've all been in the weirdness of addiction, so it's going to take more than a bad relapse to chase us away, man. What's more, I know you're thoughtful and reflective enough not to let this lapse go to waste. You'll learn from it and come back even stronger than before! Tomorrow is a fresh, new day!

Quitforeverthenwin

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #219 on: May 26, 2019, 05:11:54 PM »
Thanks man! Feel a lot better reading that, wish I had read it before!

I continued the lapse today, more of the same.

A few things:
1) I felt un worthy to post in other people's journals and offer support. But I figured hell, when things were good I did that and it seemed to be helpful, so going to make myself do it again.
2) My current lapses, from yesterday and today: I would be out and about, feeling good. Then as I started heading home.... I would get this anticipation and plan to do it once I got inside. It's a recurrent fantasy, now for the last two days.
Simple: I need a game plan to handle that. I need to make it in advance.
3) It happened before the lapse, but I started forgetting my motivations for quitting and am still kind of there to be honest. I guess when lapsing the drives and desires for other things leaves and the mind is so irrational. Thinking it's fine but in reality I am not getting shit done and acting crazy as hell.
GRRRR.

4) I masturbated again before even posting... At least I forced myself away from CRAZY fucking pmo fetishes and made myself imagine a sweet looking cute girl and quite "conventional" sex with connection.

Honestly, felt pretty good about that and a little confidence boost. What a different mental state that was.... (My pmo fetishes are a bit depraved).

Okay, for the very least... My hierarchy of avoidance.
1) Contacting escorts
2) Escort website
3) Tinder
4) Masturbation with fetish fantasy
5) Fetish fantasy
6) Masturbation with "vanilla" fantasy.

I suppose I will analyze a bit.... Me contacting escorts as a part of my lapses came about (INSANELY) when I was aiming to quit PMO and was thinking I MUST not masturbate at all costs I was very tirggered and thought "I'll see an escort instead!" (1000% worse). Of course the contacting etc. was so much worse and led to me masturbating several times afterward...............

So that is what happened again on this lapse the first time (no mo) Second time (with mo) and third time : (. with mo. I want so bad to avoid masturbation at all costs, then the fucking crazy addicted part of the mind finds another outlet, but one that is far far worse. So, it is better to masturbate then it is to fucking contact escorts like a psycho path. So, will keep that in mind moving forward.

Now maybe I am going back on some of what I have said in the past but....... maybe it is possible for me to masturbate in a healthy(ish) way? The start of the lapse came with me thinking "am I really never going to masturbate again in my life?

Thinking:
Fetishes: Yes, as bluehero said these may provide "pleasure" but if I could snap my fingers (even aside from pmo) and have them gone, would I? HELL YES.
PORN: HELL YES
Contacting escorts/ going on website: FUCKING HELLLLL YES.

Masturbation to vanilla thoughts: If I could do it healthily I'd be fine with having it as a part of my life.

Maybe rationalizations just after lapsing are not relevant. (After lapse 1 I thought tinder was A - Okay! And it was a disaster). But idk.... sighhh... will seee. For now like the next day or two, rather then fetish stuff I am going to aim to make myself think vanilla when I masturbate..... I am going to give myself a few days before I cut masturbation back out (maybe even one day). Rather then doing this really really bad crazy shit.

Also guys: I am totally open to feedback on what I just wrote on masturbating? Is this just addict rationalization bullshit? Let me know. I had written about stopping masturbation etc. before and know others cut it out tooo....

BlueHeronFan

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #220 on: May 26, 2019, 06:48:10 PM »
First of all, there's no worthiness requirement for posting in my journal. I know that feeling of not feeling worthy, but I'm not here because I want to talk to guys who don't have any trouble with PMO. I'm here to talk to guys who are trying to beat it, even if they slip up from time to time.

I also really know the feeling of going on a walk to get away from urges and then planning a binge on the way back home. Not really sure what to do about it since those sorts of things always got me in the past. My most recent pattern has been to go about a month without PMO and then to slip into a day or two binge that just had to run its course before I could get back into control. Once it gets going, it seems impossible to stop, so I've just been focusing on catching myself earlier. It's way easier to back off when I spend a little too long looking at a girl at school than when I'm on my computer with porn. Keep an eye out for those early triggers, and do what you need to do.

Which brings me to your question about masturbation. It's a tough one, probably, but I'll throw my two cents in, and you can take wherever you want. I remember reading somewhere that every porn problem is really a masturbation problem, and the problem with PMO is that all three components reinforce each other. P and M are the behaviors, but O is the reward that keeps us coming back for more. So, for me anyway, every time I've gone to porn in the last couple years, it has started with an urge for MO, so just quitting P would mean only dealing with part of a larger addictive cycle that includes MO. For me, they're all the same thing, and they're all poor substitutes for the kind of solid romantic/sexual relationship I really want. I guess MO works for some people, but I can't separate PMO from MO, and I think MO would always pull me back to porn eventually.

Also, I hear you when you say the lapse started when you were thinking about never masturbating again. That can be a scary thought. PMO has been, weird as it is to say, comforting to me for a long number of years. Whenever things got too intense for me to deal with, I could escape in PMO. Right, it's fun, freeing, exciting. But it doesn't fix anything (you know that). Because there's a (hopefully shrinking) part of me that genuinely likes porn and masturbation, it can be really hard to think about giving it up forever. I also read once somewhere that PMO triggers the same hormones that make us feel good in relationships, the hormones that make us love girlfriends and make mothers love babies. PMO messes with some heavy stuff in our brains, and we form a kind of attachment that feels like love on some level. So of course it seems impossible to live life without it: I remember wondering how in the world I was going to continue living a normal life after breaking up with someone I really loved (and that breakup pushed me into a long series of PMO binges, actually). Sometimes, I start to worry about how I'll live life without PMO, but that's at least something that counting days has helped me deal with. It tricks my brain into thinking I'm just going to go today without it, and I can definitely go one day. And then I go another. And another. Part of my recovery process is not just stopping but also learning to be comfortable with a life without PMO.

So here comes the point, I suppose. Of course there's a part of you that's reluctant to give up MO. You've benefited from it in certain ways throughout your life, but those benefits have also come with real costs. For me, PMO, MO, P, PM, and whatever else are all the same thing. They're all unhealthy sexual behaviors that I use to cope with other stresses in life. They are not part of a healthy sexual life for me, and I don't think they can be. And I guess that's what it comes down to: I'm not just trying to quit porn, I'm trying to quit addiction and to not need to rely on the dopamine from PMO to get through life. So, for me, MO can't be on the table.

And,  based on what you wrote here, it sounds like your nostalgia for masturbation didn't just push you a quick and harmless MO. It led you all the way into something "1000% worse." So I don't know, maybe there is room for MO in your life, but it also seems like it could be more trouble than it's worth, especially if it was thoughts about masturbation that pushed you over the edge this time.

Good luck with another day. We'll get where we're going sooner or later, one day at a time!

Lero

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #221 on: May 27, 2019, 04:46:16 AM »
I also really know the feeling of going on a walk to get away from urges and then planning a binge on the way back home. Not really sure what to do about it since those sorts of things always got me in the past. My most recent pattern has been to go about a month without PMO and then to slip into a day or two binge that just had to run its course before I could get back into control. Once it gets going, it seems impossible to stop, so I've just been focusing on catching myself earlier. It's way easier to back off when I spend a little too long looking at a girl at school than when I'm on my computer with porn. Keep an eye out for those early triggers, and do what you need to do.
Man, I know exactly what you mean with this because I've done it. I would have urges, go out for a walk, trying to stay away from watching P only to run back home and PMO anyway.

About masturbation: If it's a self-medication, I don't think it's a good thing. And yes, I'm also at the point where that's why I would do it. It's not part of a "healthy sexual behavior" or whatever. It would send me back to PMO eventually, that's how I feel so I guess I'd have to stay away from it, at least for a period of time until I figure it out.

pichaelthompson

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #222 on: May 28, 2019, 03:32:51 PM »
@Quit, everything you have experienced these last few days, including looking up escorts, inviting girls over on tinder, MOing to make compromises to your brain, is shockingly similar to my past experiences; it's almost as if I am reading my own journal. Like @Blueheron said, today is a new day. We all have the opportunity to hit a reset button and be a different person that we were yesterday, even if our thoughts don't change much our actions can. Even if you were to relapse 1,000,000 times, the step towards recovery is always right in front of you, and we will be here to lend a hand and help any way we can.

As far as figuring out what is healthy vs unhealthy sexual behavior, I always try and think of the motives behind it all. Am I doing this ONLY for myself, or will my behavior benefit someone else? Even when I was hooking up with girls in college, I did not really care much about how the girl felt, as my motive was doing it for experience and approval of others. One thing I believe very strongly is that MO, PM, or even just P or M (or even just fantasizing) will NEVER benefit the people around me. I know I am guaranteed to enjoy these things and sometimes even feel better for a certain period of time later, but to be your best around others is to be your most honest self. When I PMO I feel unable to do that with anyone, especially with girls I would like to date.

@BlueHeron I also worry about how I can possibly live my life without PMO, as the question to "will I ever masturbate or watch porn again?" ideally is a "no." The thought of giving it up for life seems impossible or nearly impossible given how pleasurable it is, which is why I try to frame it as more of a journey than me striving towards some nearly impossible goal. Day by day, moment to moment, we can always be present and let urges wash over us, as there is no urge that is so powerful that it will physically make you watch P and MO. We are all struggling, but part of "beating" the struggle is trying to find enjoyment in the pain of discipline and restraint. It may sound a little fucked up in a "pain is pleasure" kind of way, but to me, that option has allowed me to discover more in life and create more opportunities for growth than PMO has or ever will.

Lero

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #223 on: May 28, 2019, 04:10:15 PM »
Pichaelthompson, good ideas, man!

Quote
today is a new day. We all have the opportunity to hit a reset button and be a different person that we were yesterday, even if our thoughts don't change much our actions can. Even if you were to relapse 1,000,000 times, the step towards recovery is always right in front of you.
That's actually right. The past is past and we can't change it but we can do things today and get to a place where we are better. That's why I tell people not to beat themselves up after relapses or periods when their relapses are out of control. A terrible state of mind can be a facilitator for relapses and binges. We should not let this addiction make us super depressed because when you are depressed, you don't see the light at the end of the tunnel and you don't want to hear about "today is a new day, even if you've been going through a period of out of control binges, you can still start from today." You know what I mean? I'm coming from a big binge, like "good old days" (ironically), 8 PMOs like when I was in fucking high school but what good is being super depressed about it now?
Quote
I also worry about how I can possibly live my life without PMO, as the question to "will I ever masturbate or watch porn again?" ideally is a "no." The thought of giving it up for life seems impossible or nearly impossible given how pleasurable it is, which is why I try to frame it as more of a journey than me striving towards some nearly impossible goal.
Yes, I know how this works. We got ourselves into something very pleasurable and the brain loves pleasure. When you tell yourself: "Okay, this is it, I will quit P forever", you feel that "sadness" like losing a close friend that you used to have an amazing time with but a toxic relationship at the same time, like being used by him or something. At the end of the day, I have to decide what's best for me and the best for me is to reach that day when I'm over with this. Right now it seems crazy, as I couldn't even go a week without PMO recently but it's a journey, a plan, I will get there eventually.
Quote
We are all struggling, but part of "beating" the struggle is trying to find enjoyment in the pain of discipline and restraint. It may sound a little fucked up in a "pain is pleasure" kind of way, but to me, that option has allowed me to discover more in life and create more opportunities for growth than PMO has or ever will.
Ironically, this helps us grow. I guess "no pain no gain" could be true.

BlueHeronFan

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Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« Reply #224 on: May 28, 2019, 06:12:33 PM »

As far as figuring out what is healthy vs unhealthy sexual behavior, I always try and think of the motives behind it all. Am I doing this ONLY for myself, or will my behavior benefit someone else?

That's a great thought, and is something I think I was trying to get at. If the goal, at least in part for me, is a long-term relationship, anything that's only for me is getting in the way of that goal. PMO isn't about relationships, it's just about getting me a quick fix.

The thought of giving it up for life seems impossible or nearly impossible given how pleasurable it is, which is why I try to frame it as more of a journey than me striving towards some nearly impossible goal. Day by day, moment to moment, we can always be present and let urges wash over us, as there is no urge that is so powerful that it will physically make you watch P and MO. We are all struggling, but part of "beating" the struggle is trying to find enjoyment in the pain of discipline and restraint.

I think this is also spot-on. Plus, I just really can't promise myself that I'll stay on track for the rest of my life (I've tried and failed at that promise too many times to count). But I can promise myself that I'll stay on track today. Or for the next hour. Changing my focus and going day by day instead of forever has helped me realize that even intense urges pass after a few days and life goes on. When I thought I was done for life, I thought I was going to have to deal with those urges forever so I always gave in. By just hanging on for one more day, I finally learned that those urges aren't forever, and I managed to get through them for the first time.

Hope you're doing all right man, hang in there! We're with you in this!