Author Topic: Are we losing the culture war?  (Read 1276 times)

HumbleRich

  • Guest
Are we losing the culture war?
« on: January 04, 2019, 12:24:08 AM »
Hey all, I hope you are well.  I've been thinking about this alot.  Some of us may be winning our own battle, but are we losing the war?  I just visited the V & A recently and went to a special exhibition about video games.  It was amazing and I recommend it.  But in the commentary section there were videos of panels  talking about the cultural significance of video  games.  I was on board until sex games were brought up and the panel.was in favor of some pretty borderline offensive games.  I had no idea commercial sex games were a thing, but apparently they  are.  The sex games  i got involved with back in the day were all free online and very primitive.  But anyway.  I feel like we are losing  ground and I have  felt very on edge ever since.  Not only are we ex porn addicts fighting against our own demons, many of us  fight for the  cause of ridding the world of porn.  Not only do we have to face huge business conglomerates and the corporations that have built a multi billion dollar  industry, but now liberals  have  jumped on the bus too.  I feel like porn addiction may be here to say.  The future looks very bleak to me.  To think that the media that played a roll in destroying my life for years is now a talking point for liberals is hard to swallow.

Rich
« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 02:50:09 AM by HumbleRich »

HumbleRich

  • Guest
Re: Are we losing the culture war?
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2019, 01:40:25 AM »
PS.  I am using the word liberal here merely to point out that liberals are making the point.  I am center left myself, but my problems with the sex positivity movement and other left campaigns have less to do with politics than with the trauma that porn has done to my own life and my experience as a recovering porn addict.  This post isn't about politics as much as it is about the topic of porn in media and games. 

Rich

Mayer

  • Member

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 160
  • Personal Text
    I'm not really Brad Pitt
    • View Profile
Re: Are we losing the culture war?
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2019, 03:26:51 AM »
As depressing as it is it seems only a matter of time until every facet of our lives is infiltrated with porn. Sex obviously sells, all of us on here have bought in to it and a trying to break free from it. Computer games have done everything else haven't they, look at Grand theft auto, if it wasn't bad enough it's getting more depraved every sequel. The games industry is looking for it's next shocking step forward, I guess sex is it.

changemylife

  • Guest
Re: Are we losing the culture war?
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2019, 07:57:05 AM »
Unfortunately, porn will really be everywhere, if it isn't already. I've said this before: One who could stay porn free in this era is worth of all the respect in the world. Movies, games, social media, advertisements at the subway, on the street, you cannot stay away from those fucking stimulants. You feel like you want to jerk off to death. The fact that a lot of porn is free and you can't overdose, you can't kill yourself with it, makes it that much dangerous. You can go on watching porn and jerking off your entire life then looking back and realizing you are a virgin with no life. That's right. Younger generation today has more and more problems with girls because they start PMOing at 10 years old or whatever. By PMOing you really throw away all your life energy everyday, several times a day. How can you be a man anymore? This is the easiest castration. Turning male into docile, non-aggressive, impotent pseudo-females. It's fucking disgusting. And then older men say younger generation are pussies. How the fuck one stops from being a pussy with so much porn?


DoneAtLast

  • Member

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 447
    • View Profile
Re: Are we losing the culture war?
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2019, 09:12:56 AM »
This has been the trajectory for who knows how many years.  People on the "cutting edge" have always struggled to differentiate between sex positive/openmindedness and drawing lines.  Those lines keep changing, a sure indication that they are arbitrary.  All that existed for a long time was a very foggy sense of "consent".  "Me too" mixed that up a bit as "consent" became a bit more vague (rightly so, coercion and intimidation play strongly into the porn industry) and now we have all the gender fluidity stuff, which is not just about people doing what they want, but really insisting on universal adoption of philosophies.  This is where we get the Jordan Peterson phenomenon as people push back on it.

Whether we're losing the war or not, I am thankful for this: If someone is struggling with porn, figures out that they should get it out of their lives, good resources are a mere Google search away.  Ten years ago there was nothing.  Twenty years ago, the idea of a porn addiction would have maybe been a subject of day time TV, but not really taken seriously.  There are good arguments outside of religious circles, even among atheists why this stuff is poison.  As more and more people turn away from porn and know what damage is causes, the less power this stuff has, because there are more witnesses.  As these people become teachers, parents, leaders, media voices, then the lessons taught are very different.  The porn world gains market share every day because technology permeates, but the credibility of the nofap movement only increases as well. 

(As a lover of classic video games, I yearn for the days of 8-bit and 16-bit Nintendo... games had evolved past just being hungry for quarters, but hadn't grown so competitive to seek addiction behavior like new open world games or mobile games do.)

changemylife

  • Guest
Re: Are we losing the culture war?
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2019, 09:38:20 AM »
(As a lover of classic video games, I yearn for the days of 8-bit and 16-bit Nintendo... games had evolved past just being hungry for quarters, but hadn't grown so competitive to seek addiction behavior like new open world games or mobile games do.)
I used to play 8-bit games, that was everything I had until I turned 15 or 16. I don't remember those games being so addictive like today's games. I mean, I didn't spend all day inside, playing 8-bit. I did a lot of things with other kids that probably if you went back to that place today (I've moved out from there) kids maybe wouldn't play anymore "Hide-and-seek" and stuff like that. We really did find pleasure in those things. How can you teach a kid nowadays to find too with so much technology. Online computer video games and porn are more stimulating than a "Hide-and-seek". Without realizing, they prefer the former to the latter. When I lived there, there were no computers and no Internet. Now they have everything you find in the big cities (and I'm talking about a small town). Every kid has technology there (this includes access to the Internet porn that I  didn't have access to at 10 years old). I am not very old but I happened to catch times without this technology and I've seen both. But there are many people today in the younger generation who don't even know what that was, for them these are just stories.

malando

  • Global Moderator
  • Member

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 1072
  • Personal Text
    Something deep should be here, but it isn't...
    • View Profile
Re: Are we losing the culture war?
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2019, 10:27:17 AM »
I'd say, yes, we are very much losing the war. Society is showing no signs of waking up to itself around the hypersexualisaton of the modern world. In fact, with each passing year, we are becoming more and more desensitised to porn. I can actually imagine some time in the future porn might be totally mainstream - like not even something people keep to themselves. That would have disastrous consequences for mankind of course. I think PIED will need to become a rampant epidemic for any action to be taken on a societal or  governmental level. But maybe that's the way it has to be. We only seem to fix things when they are emergencies these days - the will isn't there to head things off before they become problems. Who can we even go to to protest what porn is doing. Only the most conservative politician would hitch his wagon to a motion to restrict porn - and conservatives are already barely taken seriously except by their own.

So, yes, this is going to be all about personal battles for the time-being - not winning wars. But each battle is important. We have to win to have any hope.

aquarius25

  • Member

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 1023
    • View Profile
Re: Are we losing the culture war?
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2019, 12:26:28 PM »
I would like to reply some reassurance to poster changemylife. My  kids, ages 11 &8, play hide and go seek, lol. We have very limited online access for them but we do allow them to use the computer for certain things, always in public spaces like in the kitchen when I am cooking, in the living room with others around. We homeschool and they take 1 online class per term so they are comfortable with technology. They are allowed 3 hrs per week of recreational screen time (that includes movies, games like mine-craft that are not connected online, ect). In a nutshell we live differently. Our kids both know how to weld, plasma cut, operate a torch set, cook, chop, and can baked just about anything. They know their way around a kitchenaid mixer better than my husband, lol! The have confidence that they can do anything as long as they have a desire and patience. They build catapults and launch all kinds of things, they invent games, build full metal armor for spartan Halloween costumes, and sew and design clothing and jewelry. Other kids in the neighborhood have made comments on how they are weird and how mean my husband and I are for not letting them have more screens but then they come over and realize that my kids have their own tool set and can build a tire swing themselves and then I see the spark. Now kids from around the neighborhood think my husband and I are the cool parents, lol. They get excited to come over, heck half of them have projects they stash at our house that they are working on. I have even walked into the livingroom to see 5 kids ages 8-13 reading books! We have a lot of books (that's my addiction, lol). The tv was right there and they all chose to read! Yes culture is heading down a sad path but I think if we want to see change then we need to be the change. We need to create environments where kids can experience more. Most kids when posed with the question of playing a video game or building your own samurai sword will choose the latter, just sayin.

Finwë

  • Guest
Re: Are we losing the culture war?
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2019, 04:31:52 PM »
I think people will change their views on porn eventually. I read things on reddit.com/r/nofap and nofap.com all the time that give me hope. In my case I'm actually glad I dealt with porn addiction, since it taught me about sexual conditioning and the nature of addiction and habit-forming.

Gamergirl32

  • Member

  • Offline
  • *

  • 2
    • View Profile
Re: Are we losing the culture war?
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2019, 10:40:16 PM »
Hey all, I hope you are well.  I've been thinking about this alot.  Some of us may be winning our own battle, but are we losing the war?  I just visited the V & A recently and went to a special exhibition about video games.  It was amazing and I recommend it.  But in the commentary section there were videos of panels  talking about the cultural significance of video  games.  I was on board until sex games were brought up and the panel.was in favor of some pretty borderline offensive games.  I had no idea commercial sex games were a thing, but apparently they  are.  The sex games  i got involved with back in the day were all free online and very primitive.  But anyway.  I feel like we are losing  ground and I have  felt very on edge ever since.  Not only are we ex porn addicts fighting against our own demons, many of us  fight for the  cause of ridding the world of porn.  Not only do we have to face huge business conglomerates and the corporations that have built a multi billion dollar  industry, but now liberals  have  jumped on the bus too.  I feel like porn addiction may be here to say.  The future looks very bleak to me.  To think that the media that played a roll in destroying my life for years is now a talking point for liberals is hard to swallow.

Rich

I can understand making a personal choice to cut porn out of your life, but aren't you being just a tiny little bit bigoted here? Who is "we", conservatives, porn addicts? Just because I want my boyfriend to be able to maintain an erection doesn't mean I want to control what everyone else gets to watch/play. If conservatives had their way 20 years ago we probably wouldn't have video games at all. Remember the good old days when grand theft auto was the controversial hot topic, you okay with barring consenting adults from playing that as well?

Gamergirl32

  • Member

  • Offline
  • *

  • 2
    • View Profile
Re: Are we losing the culture war?
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2019, 10:45:02 PM »
I think PIED will need to become a rampant epidemic for any action to be taken on a societal or  governmental level. But maybe that's the way it has to be. We only seem to fix things when they are emergencies these days.

Hardly any men actually want to have sex or kids these days anyways. For every 1 man on these forums, there's probably 100 who don't actually want to have sex and don't think it's a problem. It's getting harder to find a man to have sex let alone to commit. I can hardly blame them, it's getting pretty unfair/dangerous for them...but a girl has needs ;D
« Last Edit: January 06, 2019, 11:10:02 PM by Gamergirl32 »

mcube

  • Member

  • Offline
  • *

  • 29
    • View Profile
Re: Are we losing the culture war?
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2019, 12:42:36 AM »
If one looks at 'traditional' religious cultural society they always 'cover' the woman and it has to do with the sexual dynamics of people. Most porn addicts know that sexual 'fantasy' is harmful and causes them to relapse. By covering woman people figured out was an effective way to prevent sinful lust as well as sexual fantasy. As a recovering porn addict every time I see a hot woman out on the park just the sight of her, her hands, feet is enough for me to start 'fantasizing' about them.

Most pious followers also avoid physically touching woman, you hear on the news pious leaders refusing to sit next to a woman on the plane, although it sounds 'paranoid' but it was put in the religious code to prevent sexual lust. Every time I come in contact with a hot woman, even smelling her is enough to start relapsing.

Maybe because I am rebooting that I am seeing the obvious connection between religious conducts and the harm of secularism.

malando

  • Global Moderator
  • Member

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 1072
  • Personal Text
    Something deep should be here, but it isn't...
    • View Profile
Re: Are we losing the culture war?
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2019, 03:56:38 AM »
I think PIED will need to become a rampant epidemic for any action to be taken on a societal or  governmental level. But maybe that's the way it has to be. We only seem to fix things when they are emergencies these days.

Hardly any men actually want to have sex or kids these days anyways. For every 1 man on these forums, there's probably 100 who don't actually want to have sex and don't think it's a problem. It's getting harder to find a man to have sex let alone to commit. I can hardly blame them, it's getting pretty unfair/dangerous for them...but a girl has needs ;D

So on one hand you have stated above that you don't want people to be stripped of the right to get their rocks off to porn, but on the other hand you are lamenting the loss of the sexual male. I'm sorry to tell you, but you really can't have both. Porn is so easily accessible and it's so addictive, it is always going to enslave a large number of men as long as that easy availability continues. Porn is killing real sex, it's just a sad reality. Personally, I wouldn't mind if porn was banned/illegal. I wouldn't have said that 5 years ago, but I've reached the point where I don't see any redeeming aspect to it. I don't buy the whole "healthy sexuality" angle with porn. I don't think it represents freedom and well-being. I think it represents enslavement and sickness. It's the opposite of healthy sexuality. If porn was gone, the men would return. Video games also seem to burn out the real-world aspects of addicts. Maybe you hand out with video game addicts too much? A lot of them are probably not that interested in sex with a real girl either. A lot of them are probably also porn addicts - or worse still, sex game addicts. We pay the price for things that are over-stimulating. Real life just can't compare to the fantasy world.

changemylife

  • Guest
Re: Are we losing the culture war?
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2019, 05:06:48 AM »
I think PIED will need to become a rampant epidemic for any action to be taken on a societal or  governmental level. But maybe that's the way it has to be. We only seem to fix things when they are emergencies these days.

Hardly any men actually want to have sex or kids these days anyways. For every 1 man on these forums, there's probably 100 who don't actually want to have sex and don't think it's a problem. It's getting harder to find a man to have sex let alone to commit. I can hardly blame them, it's getting pretty unfair/dangerous for them...but a girl has needs ;D

 

So on one hand you have stated above that you don't want people to be stripped of the right to get their rocks off to porn, but on the other hand you are lamenting the loss of the sexual male. I'm sorry to tell you, but you really can't have both. Porn is so easily accessible and it's so addictive, it is always going to enslave a large number of men as long as that easy availability continues. Porn is killing real sex, it's just a sad reality. Personally, I wouldn't mind if porn was banned/illegal. I wouldn't have said that 5 years ago, but I've reached the point where I don't see any redeeming aspect to it. I don't buy the whole "healthy sexuality" angle with porn. I don't think it represents freedom and well-being. I think it represents enslavement and sickness. It's the opposite of healthy sexuality. If porn was gone, the men would return. Video games also seem to burn out the real-world aspects of addicts. Maybe you hand out with video game addicts too much? A lot of them are probably not that interested in sex with a real girl either. A lot of them are probably also porn addicts - or worse still, sex game addicts. We pay the price for things that are over-stimulating. Real life just can't compare to the fantasy world.

And also I think that too much porn/masturbation/video games create social anxiety which makes a lot of guys having a hard time talking to girls even if they want to have sex.

thisisme

  • Member

  • Offline
  • *

  • 14
  • Personal Text
    The last time doesn't exist. It's only this time.
    • View Profile
Re: Are we losing the culture war?
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2019, 04:16:25 PM »
Whether we're losing the war or not, I am thankful for this: If someone is struggling with porn, figures out that they should get it out of their lives, good resources are a mere Google search away.  Ten years ago there was nothing.  Twenty years ago, the idea of a porn addiction would have maybe been a subject of day time TV, but not really taken seriously. 

Before NoFap and Reboot Nation there was X3 Church but it was mainly Christians using it. Don't think the non-religious would want to go such a site.

Anyway, I don't know who we are and what this war is. I'm hopeful about the future. Young people keep surprising at how mature and open-minded they are. In the end, love will win.

changemylife

  • Guest
Re: Are we losing the culture war?
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2019, 04:22:50 PM »
Whether we're losing the war or not, I am thankful for this: If someone is struggling with porn, figures out that they should get it out of their lives, good resources are a mere Google search away.  Ten years ago there was nothing.  Twenty years ago, the idea of a porn addiction would have maybe been a subject of day time TV, but not really taken seriously. 

Before NoFap and Reboot Nation there was X3 Church but it was mainly Christians using it. Don't think the non-religious would want to go such a site.

Anyway, I don't know who we are and what this war is. I'm hopeful about the future. Young people keep surprising at how mature and open-minded they are. In the end, love will win.

If the new science about porn addiction gets to as many young people as possible, hopefully some that could become addicts won't become. If we could save some 14 years old kids, then it will be great. This is my hope. At the same time, I wonder how my relationship with porn would've evolved had I known what I know now by the time I was 14. But I don't know how much information about porn addiction existed back then and even if it did, I had no access to it. I had a book about problems caused by cigarettes, for example. After I got caught by my parents smoking, my mom gave me that book to read about it. However, maybe not the book stopped me from smoking again, but the fear that I could get caught for the second time and beaten this time hahahaha

neuroaddict

  • Member

  • Offline
  • *

  • 29
    • View Profile
Re: Are we losing the culture war?
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2019, 04:47:05 PM »
There's a ton of evidence on the damaging effects of booze, and yet alcoholism rates are climbing annually in the U.S. We now know better than ever how opiates work on the brain, and yet opiate addiction and opiate-related overdose have reach epidemic proportions. From a public health perspective, what works even better than the educational tactics aimed at raising awareness around the harms that may be associated with use is limiting the availability of such substances, or taxing the hell out of them. This tactic doesn't work as easily with porn (at least in the U.S.) because some claim it is an expression of "free speech." I doubt you're in favor of undermining anyone's right to freedom of speech, particularly if you're conservative. Unfortunately, this probably means that porn isn't going anywhere, anytime soon. I think it's great that we're continuing to amass research related to the adverse effects of porn on the brain/body, but I doubt if even that will do much to curb the corrosive influence of porn in our culture. My belief is that porn and porn addiction (and all addiction) is just a symptom of the larger cultural problem, anyway. It's the materialism (the belief that we're nothing but our bodies) and ego-centrism (the belief that the "world" revolves around "self") that are at the root of the problem. These two widely held cultural beliefs have resulted in an psychological/existential crisis within Western Civ (especially the U.S.), compelling individuals to "escape" the burden of self-consciousness through whatever means necessary/possible. The "culture war" was lost a long time ago. We are merely witnessing the fallout. That said, I am presently doing all I can to change my own beliefs about the world and about self. I am committed to growing my conscious contact with spiritual realities, as well as looking for how I can be useful to those around me. To win the culture war, we don't have to change porn-related policy, we have to change ourselves. 

DoneAtLast

  • Member

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 447
    • View Profile
Re: Are we losing the culture war?
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2019, 05:21:06 PM »
Whether we're losing the war or not, I am thankful for this: If someone is struggling with porn, figures out that they should get it out of their lives, good resources are a mere Google search away.  Ten years ago there was nothing.  Twenty years ago, the idea of a porn addiction would have maybe been a subject of day time TV, but not really taken seriously. 

Before NoFap and Reboot Nation there was X3 Church but it was mainly Christians using it. Don't think the non-religious would want to go such a site.

Anyway, I don't know who we are and what this war is. I'm hopeful about the future. Young people keep surprising at how mature and open-minded they are. In the end, love will win.

If the new science about porn addiction gets to as many young people as possible, hopefully some that could become addicts won't become. If we could save some 14 years old kids, then it will be great. This is my hope. At the same time, I wonder how my relationship with porn would've evolved had I known what I know now by the time I was 14. But I don't know how much information about porn addiction existed back then and even if it did, I had no access to it. I had a book about problems caused by cigarettes, for example. After I got caught by my parents smoking, my mom gave me that book to read about it. However, maybe not the book stopped me from smoking again, but the fear that I could get caught for the second time and beaten this time hahahaha

Agreed.  If it was plausibly explained to me at age 14 that porn was highly addictive and came with a myriad of side effects, I would have stayed away.  Probably would have peeked at various points in my adolescence, but would have known the warning signs of addiction and cut it off before it started. 

I also never touched any drugs besides alcohol, which I regulate through my adulthood understanding what too much drinking looks like and knowing when I should step away.

The opiate crisis is something else entirely.  No one goes on porn after surgery and gets hooked after a prescription.  Plus, everyone at least knows about the harms of drugs, to one extent or another.  Differences in opinion exist, varying myths still circulate, but no one out there really thinks hard drugs are a completely harmless pasttime.  Imagine all the hardcore drugs being readily available to people of all ages for free with no warnings, and even some encouragement that it is healthy.  That is what the porn world has been like.

changemylife

  • Guest
Re: Are we losing the culture war?
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2019, 05:29:52 PM »
Agreed.  If it was plausibly explained to me at age 14 that porn was highly addictive and came with a myriad of side effects, I would have stayed away.  Probably would have peeked at various points in my adolescence, but would have known the warning signs of addiction and cut it off before it started. 

I also never touched any drugs besides alcohol, which I regulate through my adulthood understanding what too much drinking looks like and knowing when I should step away.

The opiate crisis is something else entirely.  No one goes on porn after surgery and gets hooked after a prescription.  Plus, everyone at least knows about the harms of drugs, to one extent or another.  Differences in opinion exist, varying myths still circulate, but no one out there really thinks hard drugs are a completely harmless pasttime.  Imagine all the hardcore drugs being readily available to people of all ages for free with no warnings, and even some encouragement that it is healthy.  That is what the porn world has been like.

Porn is a tricky drug. You can't overdose on it, you can't die from it. There are no limits. There are so many substances you can take before killing yourself but you never have this risk with porn. You can watch all day and all night. So you could easily go on for decades with porn and be alive while suffering from related problems, PIED being one.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 05:35:06 PM by changemylife »

HumbleRich

  • Guest
Re: Are we losing the culture war?
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2019, 09:43:40 PM »
In response to the comments from GamerGirl, no I do not feel that we should outlaw hyper sexual behavior, be it sex education through games, swinging, polyamory, etc.  I am not wholly a conservative.  “We” means recovering porn addicts, although I also meant it as critics of liberal ideas in general.  As a libertarian I say that anyone can do anything they want as long as it does not physically harm anyone else.  Emotional repercussions are difficult to identify and prove, thanks to cultural relativism it is almost impossible to even define emotional abuse, let alone take precautions against it. 

All I have to say to liberals is do whatever the heck you want, but be an adult and take responsibility for the consequences.  Don’t expect the country to solve your problem. 

End of rant.

Rich

malando

  • Global Moderator
  • Member

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 1072
  • Personal Text
    Something deep should be here, but it isn't...
    • View Profile
Re: Are we losing the culture war?
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2019, 07:02:59 AM »
In response to the comments from GamerGirl, no I do not feel that we should outlaw hyper sexual behavior, be it sex education through games, swinging, polyamory, etc.  I am not wholly a conservative.  “We” means recovering porn addicts, although I also meant it as critics of liberal ideas in general.  As a libertarian I say that anyone can do anything they want as long as it does not physically harm anyone else.  Emotional repercussions are difficult to identify and prove, thanks to cultural relativism it is almost impossible to even define emotional abuse, let alone take precautions against it. 

All I have to say to liberals is do whatever the heck you want, but be an adult and take responsibility for the consequences.  Don’t expect the country to solve your problem. 

End of rant.

Rich

I think it is very much to do with cultural relativism - and more specifically the generational slide we seem to be on with regard to sexual content. I think it is designed to look like freedom of sexuality and expression from a distance, but when you get up close, it's an escalation of behaviour on a generational scale - much like how porn addicts go from one level of porn explicitness to another one as they become immune to what they are used to.

I think society is doing the same thing from one generation to the next - each generation is growing up with one set of conditions and pushing them a step (or many steps) further during their lifetime. I don't think there is any growth in cultural wisdom to go along with it though. We are not getting more wise as a whole, we are getting more hedonistic and less aware of what we are doing and the price we pay for it.

So it's not really the case that people  are evolving alongside these titillating options we have now. We are just getting messed up by them. Companies that develop new technologies for virtual sex know exactly what they are doing – they are well aware of the intoxicating effect of porn. Their goal is to enslave people to their dopamine responses and to help people part with their money. These companies are not trying to augment our lives, give us more freedom, more expression, liberate our sexuality – or any of the other ridiculous terms this industry uses to justify itself. They are trying to exploit people for all they are worth – including the people who are paid to perform in these technologies. The idea that the porn industry is part of freedom of expression falls down demonstrably when you look into how people are treated and what their long term prospects are – look it up, it’s an industry of death. People don’t live long in that industry. It’s total BS to look at porn as harmless provided you do it in moderation when it represents death to many of its participants.

So, I think we should be careful not to lazily ignore the bigger picture behind porn and just defend it from an anti-censorship perspective. This industry hurts so many people. There is no will to change that, no care or empathy for those who get caught up in it. We prefer to pretend that people involved in porn do it because it’s fun and a great way to earn some cash. People who are lazy enough to believe this deserve to have their freedom restricted in my opinion. We should all get an education on this when we enter our teenage years. I certainly could have done with some education on the matter when I was young. I didn’t need the “freedom” so many people chirp on about. I would have been a whole lot better off without that sort of freedom! We live by lazy maxims around freedom and choice that we have barely given any thought to.

aquarius25

  • Member

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 1023
    • View Profile
Re: Are we losing the culture war?
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2019, 09:44:37 AM »
As I read through the discussion here there are lots of perspectives and views and some really great conversation. One thing that seems to be the consensus is that there is a problem. So if we can agree on that, rather an argue over all the details of how if you had _ than maybe you wouldn't be an addict today and ect I will pose a question. What are you doing to help change the narrative? What are you doing to help future generations? I don't mean stop looking at porn yourself, yes that is good, but what more are you doing? It could be as simple as volunteering as a mentor to help encourage kids to lead healthy lives. There are lots of ways you can be an encouragement and get involved in your community to help shift the culture around you. If we all did that, all over the world, I think that is where you start to see real change. It is one thing to have this conversation on a porn addiction forum where we all can see there is a problem but rather than sit here and discuss it I would really encourage you to go and and be the change you want to see! Not only will you be helping the community around you but I really believe it will have a positive impact on your own recovery.

So to change the course of the discussion just every so slightly..... What are you doing in your community to help shift this culture? Maybe we should share ideas? That could be a more productive conversation?

malando

  • Global Moderator
  • Member

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 1072
  • Personal Text
    Something deep should be here, but it isn't...
    • View Profile
Re: Are we losing the culture war?
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2019, 06:58:34 AM »
A25, I agree that action needs to be taken, but we also need to reach a consensus on the nature of the problem otherwise any campaign to fight this problem will suffer through confused messaging and lack of unity. It seems that we all agree here that porn is a problem, but we are all objecting to different aspects of it - so how to launch a campaign that has solid messaging without resorting to "porn fucks you up in every way possible!" ? ;D

I have made it my business to tell most of my friends what I think porn is doing to society, but you never know whether it's really getting through to them. I have access to young people in my job in education, but I'm not authorised to talk to them about such matters. This is a BIG problem with no obvious avenues for delivering the message to young vulnerable people because it requires people high up in institutions to be willing to take it on as an issue. At present, I haven't seen any signs that education departments are willing to take this on. It's an awkward discussion people don't want to have. Until that changes, I think we are stuck just spreading the word in whatever way we can. Churches are well-positioned to do this because they are already concerned about sexual morality and therefore more receptive to an anti-porn messaging. Churches are also able to set their own agenda without worrying about government oversight. Secular society is a different ballgame.

changemylife

  • Guest
Re: Are we losing the culture war?
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2019, 08:44:40 AM »
A25, I agree that action needs to be taken, but we also need to reach a consensus on the nature of the problem otherwise any campaign to fight this problem will suffer through confused messaging and lack of unity. It seems that we all agree here that porn is a problem, but we are all objecting to different aspects of it - so how to launch a campaign that has solid messaging without resorting to "porn fucks you up in every way possible!" ? ;D

I have made it my business to tell most of my friends what I think porn is doing to society, but you never know whether it's really getting through to them. I have access to young people in my job in education, but I'm not authorised to talk to them about such matters. This is a BIG problem with no obvious avenues for delivering the message to young vulnerable people because it requires people high up in institutions to be willing to take it on as an issue. At present, I haven't seen any signs that education departments are willing to take this on. It's an awkward discussion people don't want to have. Until that changes, I think we are stuck just spreading the word in whatever way we can. Churches are well-positioned to do this because they are already concerned about sexual morality and therefore more receptive to an anti-porn messaging. Churches are also able to set their own agenda without worrying about government oversight. Secular society is a different ballgame.

When I was in 12th grade, we had some "Sexual education" classes. They were good. I've learned some things there, but porn problem has never been brought up in any way. Okay, maybe back then (we're talking about 2008 or 2009 here), there wasn't much information available. But look, these classes should be places where porn should be discusses, don't you think? I'm sure by the time these students are 12th grade, some of them might even have a porn problem. I don't know, maybe start earlier, in first year of high school or whatever. If these people come to Sexual Education classes when I'm 12th grade and show me what you can find on YBOP, I might learn something.

malando

  • Global Moderator
  • Member

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 1072
  • Personal Text
    Something deep should be here, but it isn't...
    • View Profile
Re: Are we losing the culture war?
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2019, 11:19:46 AM »
A25, I agree that action needs to be taken, but we also need to reach a consensus on the nature of the problem otherwise any campaign to fight this problem will suffer through confused messaging and lack of unity. It seems that we all agree here that porn is a problem, but we are all objecting to different aspects of it - so how to launch a campaign that has solid messaging without resorting to "porn fucks you up in every way possible!" ? ;D

I have made it my business to tell most of my friends what I think porn is doing to society, but you never know whether it's really getting through to them. I have access to young people in my job in education, but I'm not authorised to talk to them about such matters. This is a BIG problem with no obvious avenues for delivering the message to young vulnerable people because it requires people high up in institutions to be willing to take it on as an issue. At present, I haven't seen any signs that education departments are willing to take this on. It's an awkward discussion people don't want to have. Until that changes, I think we are stuck just spreading the word in whatever way we can. Churches are well-positioned to do this because they are already concerned about sexual morality and therefore more receptive to an anti-porn messaging. Churches are also able to set their own agenda without worrying about government oversight. Secular society is a different ballgame.

When I was in 12th grade, we had some "Sexual education" classes. They were good. I've learned some things there, but porn problem has never been brought up in any way. Okay, maybe back then (we're talking about 2008 or 2009 here), there wasn't much information available. But look, these classes should be places where porn should be discusses, don't you think? I'm sure by the time these students are 12th grade, some of them might even have a porn problem. I don't know, maybe start earlier, in first year of high school or whatever. If these people come to Sexual Education classes when I'm 12th grade and show me what you can find on YBOP, I might learn something.
Absolutely, sex education classes are where it should be happening - and at an early stage, and repeated yearly. The problem is there are quite a number of prominent psychologists and other scientists who are in total denial about porn addiction. They are actively refuting the work that people like Gary Wilson is doing - even stating that it doesn't qualify as an addiction. It's detrimental to the cause because it's semantic squabbling around definitions when there is ample evidence for anyone who's been affect by porn that it has all the hallmarks of a very harmful addiction, regardless of how we classify it. It won't make it's way into the classroom until the squabbling ends and there is consensus that porn is a ruinous problem that is destroying lives. Education boards don't tend to be highly proactive - they wait until problems are pretty far advanced before they react to them. I would imagine that Gary has done some lobbying to educational authorities but it's a tough sell when there is so much scepticism around.