Men and Porn Addicts and the #Metoo Movement

[HumbleRich]

One of the most difficult things for me to deal with as a recovering porn addict who has leered at many women in real life, and as a man living during the #metoo movement, is the realization that I habe made women feel unsafe and that I habe abused friendships and associations with women in order to get off.  The healthier my mind becomes as I reboot, the more clean days I achieve, the clearer the damage i have  done becomes, and the mlre difficult it is for me to accept that I have made women uncomfortable.  How do we deal with this?  How will I navigate the shame and guilt I have for having broken the trust of friends, of making strangers fear for their safety?  How do I deal with the regret of having been one of those bad ones?  How do we, as men who are trying to break out of this role, deal with the past?  I honestly  don't  know.  I have  no clue.  I just know that the right thing to do is  to keep getting more and more clean, to keep getting better, so that I never make a woman feel uncomfortable ever again.

[Gracie]

The best thing you can do is recognize that these things do happen.  Recognize that women have a great deal of fear around telling a lot of time.  Fear they will not be believed, fear of being bullied,  fear of the unknown. 

Recognizing and being responsible for past actions is a huge step.  Raise your children to be different and not be sexist.  One thing I read has always stood out to me.  We make sure a boy has a condom on his first date and a girl has pepper spray. 

Encourage friends and family to be different and not view women the way they have. Women should not have to fear walking alone or being anywhere.

[aquarius25]

I think it's more that we (men and women) need to treat people as people. Treat humans as humans, not objects. Nobody likes to be treated like an object, as less than human.

[DoneAtLast]

Very well said.  There are plenty of things we can do.  None of them may be big, but small things add up.

Be "that guy" who shuts down offensive talk among other guys.  Jokes about rape, "did you see the $*#& on her?" talk, "I'd like to see her $*$&" talk, everything that gets shrugged off as "locker room talk"... No need to be a social justice warrior, just be the adult in the room.  I'm a fan of the play dumb/change the subject tactic.  "She was pretty hot", "she seemed like a really nice person, didn't she?", or "I'd like to see #*$%*&", "she had a kid with her.  I bet she's a great mom."  It gets the point across.

Be available for women and for their safety.  Be the safe ride home.  Be the guy at the office that doesn't leer.  Be the third person in a room when the creepy guy follows her.  Be a friend that values them for something other than body parts.

Make apologies as necessary.  I haven't made apologies to everyone, but to just a couple where I felt it was both needed and productive.  Obviously writing to someone from years ago who has since married and had children is not likely the smartest move, but there may be times when you can say "I'm sorry I talked you into taking pictures of yourself" or something else.  That apology can be like offering someone their dignity back.

Set the example that our masculinity is enhanced by proper dignity for women, not by the abuse of women. 

Each one of us has a whole life ahead of us to fight the good fight.  Each day will bring an opportunity.  Think of all the young men that you can set an example for, and show that treating women with dignity is manly.  Think of all the women you can engage with that can discover a good guy who isn't just after something gross.  These small acts, done with confidence, can have a profound impact.

If I remember right, Rich, you're on track to be a teacher in the sciences.  There will be so many opportunities for you!  Teaching young people of course, watching their interactions... surely you'll end up walking in on a conversation about porn amongst a couple guys.  You don't need to tell them your past, just give them the elevator pitch.  My mind spins when I think what would have happened if one of my high school teachers mentioned that!  And as you mentioned in another thread, treatment of women across the whole field is a big deal.  The young women you can encourage along the way (and maybe gently prepare them for what is to come) will always be there.  In the meantime, maybe you're the only lab mate available for a talented young woman that won't try to get in her undies.  That could be the difference between her dropping out and heading to a post-graduate program.

Thanks for starting this discussion.  I love these topics... sometimes I feel like I am hijacking the whole reboot discussion when I mention this, but at other times I feel like it is the whole point of rebooting, and that the only way out of porn is through understanding the awfulness that it is.

[Jennifer27]

Very well said.  There are plenty of things we can do.  None of them may be big, but small things add up.

Be "that guy" who shuts down offensive talk among other guys.  Jokes about rape, "did you see the $*#& on her?" talk, "I'd like to see her $*$&" talk, everything that gets shrugged off as "locker room talk"... No need to be a social justice warrior, just be the adult in the room.  I'm a fan of the play dumb/change the subject tactic.  "She was pretty hot", "she seemed like a really nice person, didn't she?", or "I'd like to see #*$%*&", "she had a kid with her.  I bet she's a great mom."  It gets the point across.

Be available for women and for their safety.  Be the safe ride home.  Be the guy at the office that doesn't leer.  Be the third person in a room when the creepy guy follows her.  Be a friend that values them for something other than body parts.

Make apologies as necessary.  I haven't made apologies to everyone, but to just a couple where I felt it was both needed and productive.  Obviously writing to someone from years ago who has since married and had children is not likely the smartest move, but there may be times when you can say "I'm sorry I talked you into taking pictures of yourself" or something else.  That apology can be like offering someone their dignity back.

Set the example that our masculinity is enhanced by proper dignity for women, not by the abuse of women. 

Each one of us has a whole life ahead of us to fight the good fight.  Each day will bring an opportunity.  Think of all the young men that you can set an example for, and show that treating women with dignity is manly.  Think of all the women you can engage with that can discover a good guy who isn't just after something gross.  These small acts, done with confidence, can have a profound impact.

If I remember right, Rich, you're on track to be a teacher in the sciences.  There will be so many opportunities for you!  Teaching young people of course, watching their interactions... surely you'll end up walking in on a conversation about porn amongst a couple guys.  You don't need to tell them your past, just give them the elevator pitch.  My mind spins when I think what would have happened if one of my high school teachers mentioned that!  And as you mentioned in another thread, treatment of women across the whole field is a big deal.  The young women you can encourage along the way (and maybe gently prepare them for what is to come) will always be there.  In the meantime, maybe you're the only lab mate available for a talented young woman that won't try to get in her undies.  That could be the difference between her dropping out and heading to a post-graduate program.

Thanks for starting this discussion.  I love these topics... sometimes I feel like I am hijacking the whole reboot discussion when I mention this, but at other times I feel like it is the whole point of rebooting, and that the only way out of porn is through understanding the awfulness that it is.

This metoo thing sounds kind of silly, if guys knew how we talk about them in the locker room they'd be wondering how we haven't broken our glass houses with rocks

[DoneAtLast]

Very well said.  There are plenty of things we can do.  None of them may be big, but small things add up.

Be "that guy" who shuts down offensive talk among other guys.  Jokes about rape, "did you see the $*#& on her?" talk, "I'd like to see her $*$&" talk, everything that gets shrugged off as "locker room talk"... No need to be a social justice warrior, just be the adult in the room.  I'm a fan of the play dumb/change the subject tactic.  "She was pretty hot", "she seemed like a really nice person, didn't she?", or "I'd like to see #*$%*&", "she had a kid with her.  I bet she's a great mom."  It gets the point across.

Be available for women and for their safety.  Be the safe ride home.  Be the guy at the office that doesn't leer.  Be the third person in a room when the creepy guy follows her.  Be a friend that values them for something other than body parts.

Make apologies as necessary.  I haven't made apologies to everyone, but to just a couple where I felt it was both needed and productive.  Obviously writing to someone from years ago who has since married and had children is not likely the smartest move, but there may be times when you can say "I'm sorry I talked you into taking pictures of yourself" or something else.  That apology can be like offering someone their dignity back.

Set the example that our masculinity is enhanced by proper dignity for women, not by the abuse of women. 

Each one of us has a whole life ahead of us to fight the good fight.  Each day will bring an opportunity.  Think of all the young men that you can set an example for, and show that treating women with dignity is manly.  Think of all the women you can engage with that can discover a good guy who isn't just after something gross.  These small acts, done with confidence, can have a profound impact.

If I remember right, Rich, you're on track to be a teacher in the sciences.  There will be so many opportunities for you!  Teaching young people of course, watching their interactions... surely you'll end up walking in on a conversation about porn amongst a couple guys.  You don't need to tell them your past, just give them the elevator pitch.  My mind spins when I think what would have happened if one of my high school teachers mentioned that!  And as you mentioned in another thread, treatment of women across the whole field is a big deal.  The young women you can encourage along the way (and maybe gently prepare them for what is to come) will always be there.  In the meantime, maybe you're the only lab mate available for a talented young woman that won't try to get in her undies.  That could be the difference between her dropping out and heading to a post-graduate program.

Thanks for starting this discussion.  I love these topics... sometimes I feel like I am hijacking the whole reboot discussion when I mention this, but at other times I feel like it is the whole point of rebooting, and that the only way out of porn is through understanding the awfulness that it is.

This metoo thing sounds kind of silly, if guys knew how we talk about them in the locker room they'd be wondering how we haven't broken our glass houses with rocks

What do you mean "we".... did you already get called out for not being a woman?

The idea that women are just as dirty, and as such, are "just asking for it" or that name calling is warranted is not the right mindset.  At all.

[UsualMood]

Lol you guys talk like you live in the city of angels. Thats definately not the case for the average woman especially in 2018. Just remember that most of the women date hyperaroused porn users, have familiarised themselves with them, try to look the part so they can attract them, and would lovely dump a more natural and down to earth man for hardcore sex sessions with them. Happened to me and to a lot of my friends too. And the better / more rich you look the easier it is.

Dont forget that cockiness that porn gives, it is a huge confidence booster that the grounded, responsible man naturally lacks of.

Again, that is if you do find a real, feminine woman in 2018.

[DoneAtLast]

Lol you guys talk like you live in the city of angels. Thats definately not the case for the average woman especially in 2018. Just remember that most of the women date hyperaroused porn users, have familiarised themselves with them, try to look the part so they can attract them, and would lovely dump a more natural and down to earth man for hardcore sex sessions with them. Happened to me and to a lot of my friends too. And the better / more rich you look the easier it is.

Dont forget that cockiness that porn gives, it is a huge confidence booster that the grounded, responsible man naturally lacks of.

Again, that is if you do find a real, feminine woman in 2018.

It is the new normal, but it doesn't make it okay.  If I make a child live in dog house and play fetch, it doesn't mean he's my dog.  Nor does it mean that if I get him to go along with it, that it is okay to treat him that way.  Also, it depends on what you call "average".  Most women I have befriended are far less promiscuous than the image of the hypersexualized woman common today, (which is usually a fiction coming from porn, social media, TV/movies, both scripted and reality shows) and get grossed out when it is assumed that they are going to be okay with a range of things.  Yeah, I've met some that seem to embrace the full-on hypersexualized behavior, but even the ones in the extremes seem to go through phases of whether they really like that or not... it is like they try it once and feel stuck in it.  For the "average" woman these days, they may be doing stuff their parents or grandparents wouldn't have thought to do, but it doesn't mean they embrace the full image of hypersexuality.  The fact is that a woman will be pushed beyond what she's comfortable with on a semi-regular basis, regardless of where she is at on the spectrum, because a porn minded man is always going to try to get more. 

[UsualMood]

Having regular foot massages and pedicures because you have been porn wired to that particular body part is "pushing herself well beyond what she is comfortable with?"

Women who cheat on their husbands who have money but not the sex drive anymore and the looks with another guy because they burn inside is just the "image that mainstream media" shows?

I guess they are pushed well beyond than our grandparents who came home after hard work, drank and had unprotective hardcore sex and  many children afterwards, most of them who died because of poverty.

Take a quick look at how women dressed in 80s, how they looked, they looked like real woman despite the fact that there was no porn, and you know why? Because in 2018 the majority, the average call it whatever you want roles have changed. Men became pussies and women try to become men.

And not everything someone tells you is the truth or even has a spice of it in it. Especially if they dont have the privilege of anonimity.

[DoneAtLast]

Having regular foot massages and pedicures because you have been porn wired to that particular body part is "pushing herself well beyond what she is comfortable with?"

Women who cheat on their husbands who have money but not the sex drive anymore and the looks with another guy because they burn inside is just the "image that mainstream media" shows?

I guess they are pushed well beyond than our grandparents who came home after hard work, drank and had unprotective hardcore sex and  many children afterwards, most of them who died because of poverty.

Take a quick look at how women dressed in 80s, how they looked, they looked like real woman despite the fact that there was no porn, and you know why? Because in 2018 the majority, the average call it whatever you want roles have changed. Men became pussies and women try to become men.

And not everything someone tells you is the truth or even has a spice of it in it. Especially if they dont have the privilege of anonimity.

I don't follow your foot massage analogy or where you're going with that. 

Not all women are rich women who cheat on their husbands.  You're taking an awfully small sample size and applying it to an entire population to justify a certain world view.  Interestingly enough, a sample size that is over represented in the media.

Of course there are women who are quite lascivious, I acknowledged that in my last post.  They are not any majority, and in my experience, many have emotional issues they are battling with, and not to be considered an ideal.

Yeah, our grandparents had sex.  That is kinda obvious.  Also, the sex they had would be by definition, I guess, hardcore.  I'm not sure softcore sex is capable of conception.  You're working in some ideas on socio-economic structures, family planning and population control that don't seem connected to anything, so I'll let that go.

I trust the close female friends/co-workers I've had to tell me the truth.  Being convinced that they're all in on this thing to convince men that they really don't like horrible treatment from men but secretly love it is silly. 

Let me be clear: treating women with respect doesn't make "men become pussies".  It makes them real men.  Having weird suspicions and anger towards women, slut shaming, assuming they're all sex pots... that is some seriously boyish stuff. 

I do agree that masculinity is at an all time low.  But, it isn't the fault of women.  The fault lies entirely on men.  To blame the problem on women is to make the problem even worse.  A great first step to reclaiming masculinity?  Quit porn.  As the original post said, once we get rid of the porn goggles, all this stuff becomes more clear.  Trust us on this... give it time, it'll make sense later.  I promise.