Author Topic: Tech age  (Read 2603 times)

Gracie

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Tech age
« on: January 29, 2017, 11:25:44 AM »
I read an article last night about a person that wants talk about sex to more prevalent.  Her answer to help this along is to have people post videos of their "loving, intimate sex".   Which to me is still visual sex and if others view it, creates that same visual porn element and sets up the addiction cycle possibility.  She views this as an answer to porn.  I do not.

More disturbing to me is that at the end of the article was that last year 91 BILLION videos were viewed on pornhub! For reference one thousand millions equal one billion.  WTF?  Then I go on facebook and click on something like stupid things kids say to moms, and all the little click ads are about women being unclothed in some fashion.

So when I see those numbers, and know that men are the biggest consumers of both, I then ask, Why are men willing to be so stupid?  A pair of boobs and a crotch shot make them willing to risk everything.  Doesn't it bother them to realize that they are viewed as being that dumb? 

Why aren't men outraged that this is how they are viewed ?  We women express our outrage as being unintelligent.  We do this every opportunity we have.  But men are being viewed and treated like dumb little lemmings hopping off into the abyss of artifical sex.  Why doesn't this piss them off?
« Last Edit: January 30, 2017, 07:39:25 AM by Gracie »

Emerald Blue

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Re: Tech age
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2017, 08:00:37 PM »
Gracie, I think I have come across that woman before. Her website is basically crowdsourced homemade videos of 'loving' couples and requires a subscription to join and watch the videos. She sees it as an 'alternative' to porn but it's basically her commercial enterprise where she takes the profit. It seems a lot like porn to me, she just repackages it as something 'nice' and 'woman-friendly' (obviously her target audience) who want to see romantic couples making love, not that nasty bad porn that disrespects women <being ironic>.

So I'm with you, Gracie. I don't buy it either. And anyway, what's the point of watching videos of people having sex? Why not just have the real thing?!

As for this 'porn for couples' shit, I saw an interview online about how men who are into porn use the so-called couple's porn to introduce their partners to sex acts they wouldn't ordinarily agree to, specifically anal as this was the example given in the interview but it could be anything, so as to get the GF/wife used to the idea. If at first she winces or can't look, with repetition on other occasions she will get used to the idea. Once she is able to sit there are look without wincing and watches rather than looks away, that's the time when the guy says "how about us trying it?"

We sometimes forget that porn is a huge industry that makes billions in profits, and there's not much else that can be done that hasn't been done before. The only way that more money can be made is not by the content but expanding the market, getting more people to watch it and hence more people paying to watch it. Hence the rise of mobile porn in the developing world, a hitherto untapped market, and in Western countries, selling porn to women. After all, "all men watch porn" so who else can we flog our shit to?

And Gracie, the most worrying thing I've heard in very recent times said by younger women who view porn is their acceptance of violence during sex, acting out violent scenes from porn. I don't think that's normal AT ALL.

But getting back to the crowdsourcing 'loving couples' enterprise, a porn addict doesn't see those boundaries. Porn addicts will watch whatever they can watch and won't subscribe to that sort of site when they can see whatever porn they like for free. Porn addicts need the new, the something different.

On a more serious note, we do need to be able to talk more openly about sex and in my opinion sexual liberation never really happened. The porn industry thrives on taboos and the idea of sex being "bad". It perpetuates and reinforces the Madonna/whore dichotomy. Just think of the words like "dirty" and "filthy" used to describe sex and misogynistic terms like "bitch" and "slut". There are still men who say they are "disgusted" by a woman breastfeeding her baby in a public place but are perfectly happy getting off to a video of some porn dude ejaculating over some other woman's silicon enhanced breasts. I really have lost all hope of sex being regarded as a positive, life affirming, sensual experience between two people who, even if not in love, at least have respect for each other. That's how I see sex. Not as a money-making enterprise and not as an act of subjugation and humiliation.
His porn addiction: you didn't cause it - you can't control it - you can't cure it

Gracie

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Re: Tech age
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2017, 10:26:13 PM »
I know what your saying about "hurting" sex.  And more women accepting it as normal. So sad. 

But, I still wonder why men are not upset as being targeted as unintelligent.  That they are portrayed as people that have no depth, no brains (except for the small one in their other head), and confuse populating the world as a hand involved activity instead of a partner, wife, loved one activity.  Where is the male outrage?

Women have stood up to being objectified, being told we have no value, and being told we are unintelligent.  We work for that to change.  Why aren't they?

JediMaster

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Re: Tech age
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2017, 10:41:40 AM »
I personally agree with all of that. I used to be one of those mindless f***bags. Thankfully though, thanks to the help of my partner my mind has been opened. I used to not think very much about anything and not feel emotions. Now lately I've been feeling so much and I'm more and more disgusted by finding out such horrible things that actually go on in the world and around us.

I had a group of friends that I don't see anymore and I didn't see them that often to begin with. My partner and I went to hangout with them a while ago. This was much earlier in recovery, and she told me afterward that I sounded like I was in middle school when I was with them. I realized looking back at that night that while I was with them it felt like my I.Q had dropped 50 points. Ironically we were celebrating my friend getting an associates degree so you'd assume that they'd be a bit more intelligent. She told me how weird it was to see me like that and that I'm never that stupid unless I'm with them. It was like I ditched my intelligence.

So, I agree that guys (I wouldn't call them men) aren't bothered with being viewed as dumb. You're absolutely right, I have plenty of friends... had* plenty of friends that had absolutely no depth to them. Most of my friendships were more superficial. One of my supposed "best friends" (at least he always said we were best friends I never fully agreed) once I posted publicly about my addiction he openly commented on facebook about how stupid that was and how I can come talk to him once I "get over my ridiculous made-up addiction". Most of the people I knew that I didn't know as well were being extremely supportive and someone I only recognized the name of and didn't know at all posted a really great supportive comment that put my "best friend" down and he deleted his comment afterwards. My "best friend" I know has had his own problems that he's never talked about but I have always sensed an insecurity about him.pertaining mostly to his intelligence. He was very self-conscious about it even saying to me and my other friend "I'm so much smarter than you guys" His reaction to it only tells me that he probably has a problem with it himself that he hasn't come to terms with.

Unfortunately they are so consumed with themselves and they way they treat other people that if you told them they were mindless porn zombies, they'd laugh and say something like "and that's a bad thing?" and just joke about it and maybe talk about a video they saw on a porn site. I've never been comfortable wit talking about porn with friends. I've always tried to hide my excessive use. I was embarrassed by it and I'd never admit to anyone how much I used. (usually at least twice a day) My partner now is the first person I've ever really told. Now if any of them would mention it I'd be disgusted and I'd put it down and change the subject once I've shut them up. Someone I was with said that some girls in porn may enjoy it and I actually got really upset at that. I told how stupid that is and how I don't think they've ever watched a video where the girl actually enjoyed it. He insisted that some probably do and that he needed proof of my point. He shut up when I said that I would email him literally(I was not exaggerating, I can get my hands on a lot that my partner and I have read) over one hundred articles, videos and personal accounts right at that moment that would prove him drastically wrong and how he should really think about that next time he decides to watch it.

It really sickens me now to hear guys I know say these things and be so ignorant. Thankfully I still have some friends that agree with me and have been helpful. They agree with how bad these things are. Unfortunately to find guys with open minds is extremely difficult and the fact that I am only really starting college four and a half years out of high school since I've failed so many classes, I have younger classmates that I fear are as immature as some of my old acquaintances. 

AnonymousAnnaXO

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Re: Tech age
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2017, 03:55:21 PM »
I agree with you Gracie, I at times wonder why men aren't outraged. But I agree with Jedi, as I've witnessed guys indifference to whether they are perceived as intelligent or not. I like your answer JKS :P Most guys these days are quite selfish. When I was at my old college before I transferred to my current college, the guys were very... disrespectful. Not all, but most were. They basically just wanted sex and nothing else. Some would get in a relationship with me just for the sex, and when "bored" leave. It was obnoxious.
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aquarius25

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Re: Tech age
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2017, 07:10:22 PM »
I think it really boils down to a culture that is self centered. Porn is completely one sided. The only person you are thinking about is yourself when you are there. When you start thinking about others and you think about more than your own personal gratification then you realize what you have become. We have a sex obsessed culture but its completely one sided. All of the sex that is advertised is all about personal sanctification. Do what you like, what you think feels good. There is nothing encouraging relational building, thinking about your partner first. Heck most stuff out there you don't need a partner in fact it seem no partner is encourages, thus PMO. When you factor that a lot of young kids have the majority of their social life online it we creating a society that is solitary. Won't that just kill out people? We need human interaction. Real relationships, real friends, real touch. I think most people need to pull their head out of their asses and start thinking about someone other than themselves. If more people were focused on serving others they wouldn't have time to PMO and other crap. Their life would feel more fulfilling and there would be a lot more happy people. Just my two cents.

Emerald Blue

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Re: Tech age
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2017, 08:30:58 PM »
Aquarius25, I agree completely. We have become so cut off from each other with our devices. It's not the same as a real conversation or a real experience. But when a computer replaces a sexual relationship, that is really fucked up. I know because I lived through that experience. If your job was replaced by a robot and you found yourself out of work, you'd probably go through all sorts of emotional issues too about being redundant in the modern world etc. That's what happened to me. I was replaced by a computer. A fucking computer!! How can masturbating to a computer screen replace a sexual relationship? If sci fi writers wrote books about it in the 50s, that machines would replace sex, people would have said it was even beyond what's believable in fiction. But that's what happened. I know because I was replaced by an experience with an inanimate machine.

Jedi, the cultural influence of porn particularly on younger men is quite worrying. The fact that no one is questioning its ubiquity and its views of women probably worries me more.

Look, if a guy is into porn he will see what he wants, or what he wants to believe, regarding the 'enthusiasm' of the participants. Whereas I may see the thousand yard stare of someone who is disassociating their emotions from their bodily experience, the unquestioning porn consumer inexperienced in relationship skills and therefore reading the subtle (or not so subtle clues) will interpret the same expression as a "sexy look".

Porn is a performance. It's a show for the camera. The acts, the camera angles etc, are scripted and directed. It's not a real world sexual experience. The relationship is financial. So think about this - when money buys consent, you are not watching consensual sex. And some would interpret the act of payment for sex as a form of sexual violence against an otherwise unwilling participant. In any case the career of the average performer is short lived, and within the industry drug and alcohol abuse is rife. Even amongst the porn "stars", how many have propped themselves up with coke, crystal meth, and prescription medications? Prescription strength painkilling injections are routinely used on set to make the acts possible.

But even if you took some "porn fan" on set, he wouldn't "see" the darker side. Even if it was happening in front of him. He would just say "but she's doing what she wants to do". Even if she's regularly disappearing to "powder her nose". Even if she's wincing in pain. These guys won't see it.

In my experience, men lose touch with their ability to empathise when they view this shit habitually. It happened to my husband and I still don't think he's recovered that ability even 18 months on. He's not so far gone but it's like he developed a sort of detachment skill throughout his addiction. Perhaps it's an inevitable consequence of the compartmentalisation that goes with the habit. Perhaps it's part of the secrecy/deception skill that had to exist to maintain his habit. But porn is a one-sided solitary and selfish activity. There's no emotional connection. And it's like the ability to have empathy withers away through creating this distance.
His porn addiction: you didn't cause it - you can't control it - you can't cure it

Kimba

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Re: Tech age
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2017, 10:57:50 PM »
Just another camouflage by the sounds of things... Social media is not my bag, over it, my partner loved it, the original idea was for him to talk to his kids, ha ha, not much of that was happening in the end just plenty of porn subs.  Since giving up the mindless screen watching I definitely connect more with people around me and my partner has to talk to me now as well.  ;D

Im pretty sure we dont need any website showing us how to connect with each other sexually, think there is enough crap on the net now.  On fight for love the stats are terrifying and the types of P watched are shocking to say the least, we are defiantly being desensitised...
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Emerald Blue

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Re: Tech age
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2017, 05:06:50 AM »
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Im pretty sure we dont need any website showing us how to connect with each other sexually

I agree. It's ridiculous how within one generation suddenly people have a "need" for porn. WTF? The human race survived without porn for thousands of years and we didn't become extinct.
His porn addiction: you didn't cause it - you can't control it - you can't cure it

JediMaster

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Re: Tech age
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2017, 09:52:15 AM »
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The human race survived without porn for thousands of years and we didn't become extinct.

Agreed, in fact, I think the more people slip into this through the generations the closer the human race will be to being extinct. Eventually It'll be weird to want to talk to someone face to face. "Dude want to go bowling? Yeah let me get my VR goggles" Every hangout will be in virtual reality because you can do anything that you want to download. Unfortunately P is a big part of the new VR culture. It's just like someone is using technology to desensitize the entire human race, or at least the first world countries. It's getting increasingly difficult to keep people away from being shown societies version of what it is to be sexual and they are thinking that it's normal.

I can agree with the loss of empathy and emotional connection from experience. I was definitely disconnected from my emotion when I was in my addiction. And I also agree that it is absolutely a consequence of being in the addiction because it makes it more possible to do it. I felt honestly guilty and ashamed when I did it but I was able to just disconnect those feelings and continue on with my day. It took a while to be able to reconnect to my feelings because it wasn't just in this relationship. I have been repressing feelings for over a decade. I have been denying that anything was wrong with me for years. I didn't think my parent's divorce affected me, I didn't think the hate I got from people in elementary school affected me, I didn't think my mom's selfishness or absence affected me. I didn't think anything made me really feel. Now I'm finally feeling what kind of effect this had on me emotionally. From reading the addict section I honestly think that it is something that most addicts seem to be missing. They always talk about how they are trying to abstain and how it's hard to fight the urge and how they've been clean for while but that relapsed and how if they stay off porn for long enough they're free. And it's great that they're trying so hard but even if they abstain for a while and never do it again, it doesn't mean they're free. There is usually a big part of their psyche that got them there in the first place. It seems to me that they hardly address the emotional issues that may have caused, or been caused by the addiction. They may abstain from P but they will still not have the emotional connection that P has taken away even if they never do it again.

When I was abstaining a few months ago and working on recovery, I felt a bit better but I still wasn't giving my partner enough and I didn't know why.I hadn't been acting out. I had been good for months but it didn't seem to be helping at all. I was still missing the emotional connection. Ever since a few weeks ago, and I believe it was building up before that, I finally felt emotion and let it come to me. Once I finally felt a drop of emotion, I was finally able to find the source and wire my way back to it and things have been unbelievably amazing with my partner and I ever since. I really have found that connection.

The biggest problem I believe, was that I have had this for so long that I don't know who I am without it. I've been trying to figure that out and I think since I've been able to try and find myself out, I have had much more motivation for everything and it's helped me finally get somewhere in life.

The emotional connection seems to be the seriously important part that some people are still missing. If there was a secret to recovery (which there isn't, it's all hard consistent work and you can never take a break) it would be that once you find out where those little drops of emotion are leaking from, you can go at the source with your emotional sledge hammer and go at it until the emotion starts flowing through. I have never felt so close to my partner for so long and so consistently.

Society is really killing the ability to interpret emotion and feel empathy. It's all about turning people into zombies to sell things to. It grips you when your young so the hold is stronger and it's absolutely terrifying. 

aquarius25

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Re: Tech age
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2017, 02:08:31 PM »
Yes, Simon Seinek talks a lot about technology and how its having an effect on personal relationships. He has quite a few talks on youtube. He is really great!

Emerald Blue

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Re: Tech age
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2017, 11:49:21 AM »
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The biggest problem I believe, was that I have had this for so long that I don't know who I am without it

That's quite an amazing insight. I've read elsewhere that addiction becomes part of one's identity. I read this in the context of porn and sex addiction. It was a very difficult concept for me to get my head around.

I agree completely that abstinence is not recovery and that there is almost always a significant emotional element that contributes to the addiction developing in the first place. I know that Gabe puts forward the experience of a young guy who grows up regularly masturbating to porn and unknowingly creates an addiction through training his brain to respond, so I also believe that too can happen in someone without any apparent emotional vulnerabilities. Then again, adolescence IS a time of huge emotional vulnerability fuelled by bodily and hormonal changes and a transition from childhood to adulthood so that alone, even in the most perfect of families, is a lot to deal with.

Previous generations didn't have technology and the internet to turn to for information, connection with others and entertainment/distractions. So it must be so easy for a kid to lose himself in porn at a vulnerable age, or going through difficult emotional issues.

His porn addiction: you didn't cause it - you can't control it - you can't cure it