Author Topic: He says, she says... zzz  (Read 5719 times)

Emerald Blue

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He says, she says... zzz
« on: November 17, 2016, 07:26:19 PM »
I apologise in advance as I did not want to be drawn into a spat on another partner's very raw experience. I felt I had to defend myself against Malando's criticism of me so I'll say what I have to say and no more.

I take exception to these comments based on your erroneous assumptions.

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I don't think you're able to take a man who claims to be quitting porn seriously. You can't see past the label. It's subtle, but your scorn is evident.

Really? How did you come to that conclusion? My partner has lived without porn for the past 16 months. Of course I take him seriously. He admits he is a porn addict. He acknowledges that it's a long term or even a lifelong commitment to staying that way. He's done a lot of looking back at his early life and the roots of his addiction, much of it off the scale when it comes to childhood trauma. And you think I don't take all of that seriously?

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But you seem to think you can breeze back in and basically send me the message that this is not my place to be here, implying that I'm not supportive to partners. I don't believe that is true. I've been supportive here to all members in your absence. I am not somebody you can just label and categorise.

Breeze back in? Excuse me? This is actually a forum for partners of porn addicts, and I am a partner of a porn addict.

I'm not aware that I have labelled or categorised anyone.

If you feel you can support the partners of porn addicts then go ahead. Nobody is stopping you. If you've helped partners to deal with their situations, fine.

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I could elaborate on why I have as much right to be here as you do

Nobody is disputing anybody's "right" to be here as far as I'm aware. And if I remember correctly, I have never said anything about whether porn addicts "should" be able to post here or "have the right" etc etc etc. I've actually invited some porn addicts to post here when I have read about their difficulties about whether to tell their partners especially when they are in long term committed relationships, where we can actually offer the benefit of our collective experience. I have benefited enormously from the input of those men.

Some of the input of porn addicts, although well meaning, can sometimes be of very little value. Let me elaborate.

-The Dopamine 101 class. Because we often find this info before our partners do, and we pretty much have a thorough understanding of porn addiction theory. Most of us have one or two go-to books that we find useful. For me, it's Paula Hall's book for partners of porn/sex addicts.

-We know what porn is. Most of us have seen it. Many of us first saw porn at a young age. It's not something we accidentally discovered for the first time at the age of 40 or whatever and ran away screaming. We are not naive. We all know what a vagina looks like.

-We know what sex is. We've all done it. We all know what an orgasm is. We all have a sexual history. We all have sexual preferences.

-We give a lot to our partners in their journey towards recovery. We have all read extensively about why our partners were particularly vulnerable. We seek to understand them. We do most of the work of healing the relationship, certainly within the first year. It's pretty much always the partner of the addict who has to initiate a lot of the groundwork. It is very, very demanding. Our interests end up being put to one side at least for several months because we have to put so much into building the relationship. We didn't do anything to create the situation. It was all our partner's making. Fine. We do what we must to get the job done. But it's so fucking draining, and our men aren't the best equipped to support us because they don't have the necessary skills. At least not yet. We don't come here to learn about porn addiction, we need a place where we can let it all out because we don't want to to be all Mother Teresa and singing Kumbaya. We're pretty fucking drained with it all.

-The good old fashioned sexual stereotypes and assumptions. Let's start off with the old cliche of "men are visual creatures". I went to art school. I'm trained to be visually literate. Take it from me. When a man views porn, it's not about what's going on in front of their eyes, it's what's going on in their minds.
The other thing is this thing about women and weight. Jesus fucking Christ, not all women spend their lives on diets trying to lose weight. I read something about a porn relapse being compared with a woman eating a cookie. Like, OMG she's broken her diet! All hell has broken loose! No, we're not all on diets, or fat, or trying to lose weight. It's this cultural crap that we have to wade through. Men are "allowed" to look at women in this culture, women accept it as their lot that they need to fix themselves constantly in order to be looked at.

So that's an aggregate of the various 'addict' contributions that I don't consider helpful. What is helpful is hearing what addicts say to "why don't you tell your wife?" and "what led you from internet porn to webcamming?" or even "if you are attracted to your wife why don't you want to make love?"  All these are questions which porn addicts have answered or tried to. It's a long way from Dopamine 101. These are the advanced relationship issues that to me are far more worthwhile than some single guy spouting off about visual blah blah and dopamine.

Anyway, that's plenty. That's all I have to say. Take it or leave it. I'm not stopping anyone, porn addict, whoever, from saying anything. If someone is truly out of order and is acting to the detriment of partners I will refer them to the moderators. Other than that, there are plenty of opinions on this site that are way off but I live and let live.
His porn addiction: you didn't cause it - you can't control it - you can't cure it

Ytrewq

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Re: He says, she says... zzz
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2016, 08:28:52 PM »
On many occasions you have labeled porn addicts as incapable of rational thought, because you believe porn has warped their minds. Why would you invite discussion with warped minds? Only to put them down and cast them out. Is that what empathy means to you?

2) Obviously plenty of people are disputing others rights to be here. Just because I have acknowledged the difference between porn viewing and porn addiction I am apparently not allowed to be here.

3) If input from porn addicts is of little value to you, then ignore it, you do not dictate what is valuable and what isn't. I don't see porn addicts getting offended at your interjections in the porn addiction section.

4) No, you evidently have no idea what porn is, I provided an example of a production company that goes completely against everything you think porn is, and you couldn't be bothered to look into it and realize that not all porn is created equally.

5) How do you know you didn't do anything to create the situation, are you a perfect angel? Are you everything to all men? Have you never screwed up in your entire relationship?

DontGiveUp7

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Re: He says, she says... zzz
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2016, 08:47:03 PM »
I think you have generalized many times. One example would be from a previous post of yours where you said something along the lines of "porn addicts hiding behind dopamine theories." I believe that statement implys that all of us porn addicts are cowards who "hide behind dopamine theories" and don't own up to our problem with complete honesty. Maybe if you didn't make statements like that or were at least "aware" of them, you wouldn't be getting "pushback" as you do delicately called it.



Kimba

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Re: He says, she says... zzz
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2016, 09:26:47 PM »
Ytrewq - are you involved financially in this site you keep spouting about... Pretty sure you aren't very supportive on PA's so go toddle off and talk your garbage elsewhere...

Every one generalises who gives a F... this is about just talking and getting things out in the open as most people I know don't sit around the dinner table talking about P...

We all have a story as I have said before, all different but the same...

bye y'all  ;D
Three things that cannot be long hidden
The Sun
The Moon
The Truth

Ytrewq

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Re: He says, she says... zzz
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2016, 10:32:34 PM »
Ytrewq - are you involved financially in this site you keep spouting about... Pretty sure you aren't very supportive on PA's so go toddle off and talk your garbage elsewhere...

Every one generalises who gives a F... this is about just talking and getting things out in the open as most people I know don't sit around the dinner table talking about P...

We all have a story as I have said before, all different but the same...

bye y'all  ;D

Sure, why not. Normally I'd point out how ridiculous such a statement is, but let's roll with it.
How exactly does my being affiliated with Girls Out West, or Make Love Not Porn, or Abby Winters, have anything to do with the fact that they do not fit the mold of "porn" that you and other narrow minded individuals would like to shove them into?

I'll help you out Kimba, it bloody well doesn't. My point still stands, get back to me when you have a counter point.

malando

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Re: He says, she says... zzz
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2016, 10:38:33 PM »
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I don't think you're able to take a man who claims to be quitting porn seriously. You can't see past the label. It's subtle, but your scorn is evident.

Really? How did you come to that conclusion? My partner has lived without porn for the past 16 months. Of course I take him seriously. He admits he is a porn addict. He acknowledges that it's a long term or even a lifelong commitment to staying that way. He's done a lot of looking back at his early life and the roots of his addiction, much of it off the scale when it comes to childhood trauma. And you think I don't take all of that seriously?

Of course you take the issue seriously and the problem with your partner seriously - that's why you are here! But here on the forum, no, I don't think you take the male contributions seriously. Yes, you have welcomed the occasional user who fits precisely your thinking on things, but you are very quick to jump on statements and warn them off by telling them who this part of the forum is for. I feel you don't actually listen properly to the message people are sending because you are reacting so strongly. It's overly protective when most people are just trying to help and contribute.



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But you seem to think you can breeze back in and basically send me the message that this is not my place to be here, implying that I'm not supportive to partners. I don't believe that is true. I've been supportive here to all members in your absence. I am not somebody you can just label and categorise.

Breeze back in? Excuse me? This is actually a forum for partners of porn addicts, and I am a partner of a porn addict.

There you go again. Warning me of your rightful place in the forum. It's subtle because it's factually true, but let's face it, you think you have more right to be here than I do, right?

But seriously, I invited you to ask me why I have the same right. You didn't ask, but has it occurred to you that I might understand your experience because I've lived it?

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I'm not aware that I have labelled or categorised anyone.
You create a strict divide between innocent partners and guilty addicts. I'm here to tell you that people don't fall that neatly into categories. There are men and women who fall on both sides of this problem. It's not that simple. I'm asking you to listen to what people say without assumptions. Listen to their words, not from whom it's coming.

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If you feel you can support the partners of porn addicts then go ahead. Nobody is stopping you. If you've helped partners to deal with their situations, fine.
Great! I'd appreciate the chance to do that without you sending warning messages at the slightest inclination.

I am not a dopamine apologist. I do condemn poor behaviour from addicts. I have condemned poor behaviour and comments from men on this site. When you announced you were leaving a couple of months ago, I sent you a PM and expressed my regret that you were leaving and how poor the comments were by a certain member were. I also stated that this forum is for the support of partners and that I am on board with that. You chose to ignore my message, but I have even tried to reach out to you.

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I could elaborate on why I have as much right to be here as you do

Nobody is disputing anybody's "right" to be here as far as I'm aware. And if I remember correctly, I have never said anything about whether porn addicts "should" be able to post here or "have the right" etc etc etc. I've actually invited some porn addicts to post here when I have read about their difficulties about whether to tell their partners especially when they are in long term committed relationships, where we can actually offer the benefit of our collective experience. I have benefited enormously from the input of those men.
It's all the warnings - it makes men feel they can't post freely here. It kept me away because I felt I was intruding on you. When you left, I felt a desire to try to help again. I like to help people wherever I can.

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Some of the input of porn addicts, although well meaning, can sometimes be of very little value. Let me elaborate.

-The Dopamine 101 class. Because we often find this info before our partners do, and we pretty much have a thorough understanding of porn addiction theory. Most of us have one or two go-to books that we find useful. For me, it's Paula Hall's book for partners of porn/sex addicts.

-We know what porn is. Most of us have seen it. Many of us first saw porn at a young age. It's not something we accidentally discovered for the first time at the age of 40 or whatever and ran away screaming. We are not naive. We all know what a vagina looks like.

-We know what sex is. We've all done it. We all know what an orgasm is. We all have a sexual history. We all have sexual preferences.

-We give a lot to our partners in their journey towards recovery. We have all read extensively about why our partners were particularly vulnerable. We seek to understand them. We do most of the work of healing the relationship, certainly within the first year. It's pretty much always the partner of the addict who has to initiate a lot of the groundwork. It is very, very demanding. Our interests end up being put to one side at least for several months because we have to put so much into building the relationship. We didn't do anything to create the situation. It was all our partner's making. Fine. We do what we must to get the job done. But it's so fucking draining, and our men aren't the best equipped to support us because they don't have the necessary skills. At least not yet. We don't come here to learn about porn addiction, we need a place where we can let it all out because we don't want to to be all Mother Teresa and singing Kumbaya. We're pretty fucking drained with it all.

-The good old fashioned sexual stereotypes and assumptions. Let's start off with the old cliche of "men are visual creatures". I went to art school. I'm trained to be visually literate. Take it from me. When a man views porn, it's not about what's going on in front of their eyes, it's what's going on in their minds.
The other thing is this thing about women and weight. Jesus fucking Christ, not all women spend their lives on diets trying to lose weight. I read something about a porn relapse being compared with a woman eating a cookie. Like, OMG she's broken her diet! All hell has broken loose! No, we're not all on diets, or fat, or trying to lose weight. It's this cultural crap that we have to wade through. Men are "allowed" to look at women in this culture, women accept it as their lot that they need to fix themselves constantly in order to be looked at.

So that's an aggregate of the various 'addict' contributions that I don't consider helpful. What is helpful is hearing what addicts say to "why don't you tell your wife?" and "what led you from internet porn to webcamming?" or even "if you are attracted to your wife why don't you want to make love?"  All these are questions which porn addicts have answered or tried to. It's a long way from Dopamine 101. These are the advanced relationship issues that to me are far more worthwhile than some single guy spouting off about visual blah blah and dopamine.

Anyway, that's plenty. That's all I have to say. Take it or leave it. I'm not stopping anyone, porn addict, whoever, from saying anything. If someone is truly out of order and is acting to the detriment of partners I will refer them to the moderators. Other than that, there are plenty of opinions on this site that are way off but I live and let live.

I don't think you needed to "aggregate" the contributions of addicts. It creates useless generalisations which don't represent anybody accurately. This place needs to be supportive of partners primarily, but it also needs to express new and different ideas because that gets us closer to understanding things better. That's all I'm here to do - comment if I think I can help. Maybe I'll start my own thread here and tell some of my story - perhaps it will make me more part of the place rather than being an outsider. Not sure, I'll have to think about that. But I do think it might surprise a lot of women to know that men can be affected by this problem too - as partners, not just addicts.

cuppatea

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Re: He says, she says... zzz
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2016, 11:55:46 PM »
Malando I would be really interested if you did write your story in here and I'm sure it's something my husband would find useful too. I will say I don't think I've been a particular good partner during this, I've let my own emotionally turmoil completely run amok and it's left him really with little to no support for overcoming his addiction.

malando

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Re: He says, she says... zzz
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2016, 11:58:35 PM »
Malando I would be really interested if you did write your story in here and I'm sure it's something my husband would find useful too. I will say I don't think I've been a particular good partner during this, I've let my own emotionally turmoil completely run amok and it's left him really with little to no support for overcoming his addiction.
Ok Cuppa, I'll put something together when I get a bit of quiet time. It's a bit of a long story! Thanks for your interest. M.

malando

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Re: He says, she says... zzz
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2016, 06:21:32 AM »
This particular thread is about your dispute with me, it's not about other people. Therefore it's an appropriate place to raise grievances. You could hardly expect a thread about me to get no response from me. It was a good idea for you to start a separate thread rathe than derail another thread, so thanks for thinking of that.

The reason I'm here is because I want to be supportive to people - it's that simple. You seem to have a negative reaction to things I post. I've read all of your posts since I've been here, I'm familiar with your views. Many of them I agree with, but there have been quite a few that I don't agree with and which I think are actually counterproductive. That's the way I feel sometimes. I don't generally find you welcoming of the men who post here - with the odd exception. There's probably not much I can do about that besides give you a wide berth - which I'm happy to do. I'm sorry that's the case.

But I'm not somebody who endlessly resets their counter. In 8 months I reset it once and that wasn't even because of a relapse or because I used porn. I just wanted a fresh start after coming back from my trip to China. I'm going to let you in on something that I plan to write about in the next couple of days. I have been affected as a partner of a porn user - by two partners actually. That is why this forum is of particular interest to me. I'm one of you! The fact that I've used porn myself too is an additional factor which leaves me in the unfortunate but unique position of knowing this experience from both sides. I'll elaborate on that at a later stage. Suffice to say, I'd appreciate you not  referring to me as just a "porn addict". I'm a partner too. I also have no idea who this "sidekick" is supposed to be? I don't have sidekicks. But never mind.

You've made reference to Stillme. I gather she is a friend of yours. We had a run in about a philosophical matter which she interpreted in a way entirely contrary to my intent. She didn't accept my attempts to correct the situation, and she expressed strong resentment about me - and quite publicly, and privately as I came to realise later. I wonder whether you have been affected by what she has told you about me. Perhaps you see me as somebody who goes around spoiling for a fight and making provocative statements? I can assure you I do not. This is an emotional topic, people can get upset unintentionally - myself included. But it's not my intention to upset or bother you or anybody else. I sincerely mean that.

I don't desire to tangle with you in this way. I hold no enmity towards you. I'd be happy to let bygones be bygones if you are willing. It would be in both of our interests to do so, since we are both motivated by a desire to support others.

Gracie

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Re: He says, she says... zzz
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2016, 08:30:58 AM »
This is an open community.  We can post on each other's threads and in all forums.  That is the purpose of this site.  We will have differing views.  I think all partners should be informed about the porn use.  Many men have disagreed.  I post on their threads.  Why?  Because I know the excruciating pain of discovery.  I know how my heart broke into a million pieces.  Still I write.  I have had some unhappy addicts.  But still I post.  We do not all have to agree.  Even the men don't agree in their threads.  We are all here for different reasons and in many different stages of our recovery as either a partner or an addict.  I have given help and been told go away.  We must let people speak.  Be respectful to one another. 

malando

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Re: He says, she says... zzz
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2016, 08:38:19 AM »
This is an open community.  We can post on each other's threads and in all forums.  That is the purpose of this site.  We will have differing views.  I think all partners should be informed about the porn use.  Many men have disagreed.  I post on their threads.  Why?  Because I know the excruciating pain of discovery.  I know how my heart broke into a million pieces.  Still I write.  I have had some unhappy addicts.  But still I post.  We do not all have to agree.  Even the men don't agree in their threads.  We are all here for different reasons and in many different stages of our recovery as either a partner or an addict.  I have given help and been told go away.  We must let people speak.  Be respectful to one another.

I'll do my best, Gracie.

Emerald, what do you say - do you think we can put this behind us?

stillme

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Re: He says, she says... zzz
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2016, 09:34:47 AM »

You've made reference to Stillme. I gather she is a friend of yours. We had a run in about a philosophical matter which she interpreted in a way entirely contrary to my intent. She didn't accept my attempts to correct the situation, and she expressed strong resentment about me - and quite publicly, and privately as I came to realise later. I wonder whether you have been affected by what she has told you about me. Perhaps you see me as somebody who goes around spoiling for a fight and making provocative statements? I can assure you I do not. This is an emotional topic, people can get upset unintentionally - myself included. But it's not my intention to upset or bother you or anybody else. I sincerely mean that.



This is a 100% lie. I NEVER approached anyone privately about you. I have logged two reports - one being advice given to a minor and another regarding someone purporting "ethical rape porn". I was PMed by Gabe because he sensed my frustration in the focus being on men's penis' and I openly stated that I was concerned with men being told to "test out their penis" with random women and luring women to bed ONLY to test out their penis.

I have NEVER sent a private message about you.

I see you still engage in addict behavior of lying.

Just fucking wow!

malando

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Re: He says, she says... zzz
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2016, 10:08:25 AM »

You've made reference to Stillme. I gather she is a friend of yours. We had a run in about a philosophical matter which she interpreted in a way entirely contrary to my intent. She didn't accept my attempts to correct the situation, and she expressed strong resentment about me - and quite publicly, and privately as I came to realise later. I wonder whether you have been affected by what she has told you about me. Perhaps you see me as somebody who goes around spoiling for a fight and making provocative statements? I can assure you I do not. This is an emotional topic, people can get upset unintentionally - myself included. But it's not my intention to upset or bother you or anybody else. I sincerely mean that.



This is a 100% lie. I NEVER approached anyone privately about you. I have logged two reports - one being advice given to a minor and another regarding someone purporting "ethical rape porn". I was PMed by Gabe because he sensed my frustration in the focus being on men's penis' and I openly stated that I was concerned with men being told to "test out their penis" with random women and luring women to bed ONLY to test out their penis.

I have NEVER sent a private message about you.

I see you still engage in addict behavior of lying.

Just fucking wow!

That is correct, you didn't contact me and I have no direct evidence of what you have said. I was told in a private message by another member that one of the reasons you were leaving was because of me. I don't know what you have directly said about me to anyone, but they were firmly convinced that this was the case. Maybe they inferred that from what you said on the forum. If you say you never said anything about me, I accept that - and I retract that you said it privately. I don't want to start up anything hostile with you again. I know how you feel about me - but I have not knowingly lied about anything related to you. Anything I have said was what I believed to be the truth based on what I've read and what some people have said to me. I have no need to lie about anyone here.

One more thing: I have no secrets with anyone about porn anymore. I have had full and frank conversations with my partner about this issue. Everything on the table. I did not lie about anything - she knows everything. My partner was not angry with me as she already knew about it.  In fact, she has confessed that she has used porn quite a bit herself. She was unaware that it was having a bad effect on me. She has told me that she supports my decision to leave porn behind.

Porn addict does not automatically mean liar - a former porn addict, even less so.

Finally Real

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Re: He says, she says... zzz
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2016, 10:35:12 AM »
I really have no comment on this thread as I was not really privy to what happened previously, but I want to say one thing.  I find the male perspective really helpful in getting my head around " the why". 

It makes me very sad when hard words are said to other members when each side has hurts and mistakes that have been done to others.  I was angry and mad and sad about why men do this and I want to know why it hurts me so bad, but when other men give me their view it helps to see what my husband can't say because he isn't an expressive person at all. 

All I can say it really helps me...and I am sad because of these harsh words.

malando

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Re: He says, she says... zzz
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2016, 11:10:30 AM »
I really have no comment on this thread as I was not really privy to what happened previously, but I want to say one thing.  I find the male perspective really helpful in getting my head around " the why". 

It makes me very sad when hard words are said to other members when each side has hurts and mistakes that have been done to others.  I was angry and mad and sad about why men do this and I want to know why it hurts me so bad, but when other men give me their view it helps to see what my husband can't say because he isn't an expressive person at all. 

All I can say it really helps me...and I am sad because of these harsh words.

I'm sorry about this, Finally Real. It was never my desire to be involved in this type of discussion. Maybe I should go on sabbatical from this part of the forum again. It seems every time I talk to certain members, the situation gets worse rather than better. I get frustrated about how I'm being represented or spoken to, they get more convinced than ever that what they think of me is correct. Nobody wins in this situation. It's a nil all draw.

happysad

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Re: He says, she says... zzz
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2016, 12:59:53 PM »
As somebody who is almost 11 months porn free I don't really read much in the addicts section. Almost all there is is the math of porn addiction. Science terms, boner counting, triggers etc. It was interesting for a while, but now I just don't care about reading about urges and woods that much.

I rarely post anymore, but I do come to the partners section every now and then to read. There is so much interesting, layered and emotionally complex content here that it's just much more educating at my stage.

I've been at RN for a year now, and I see there's many more addicts posting in the partners section than there used to be. There is nothing wrong with that, but guys... one good advice. Grow a thicker skin.

If you're not ready for the negative generalizations posted by partners of PA, than you are neither recovered (and still carry some self resentment) nor truly empathetic (which makes you want to WIN an argument if you believe you're right, even at the cost of "safety" of this place).

Women who have terrible experiences will have their guards up. Why? Because they are HUMAN. I mean come on, If you read any of those topics by cuppatea, Sopie123, or stilme you can tell it is a HARROWING experience for them.

And you should be able to tell by now: IT IS SO MUCH HARDER FOR PARTNERS!

As a PA you have brought it upon yourself!
As a Partner it's a blow to the core of your self worth that you didn't deserve!
Aa a PA you can fix it yourself!
As a Partner you can support change, but the handle of the screwdriver that is in your gut... is in the hands of another person.
As a PA you have all the science of porn addiction to defend your actions.
As a Partner you're very often stuck with "I didn't know I was destroying you".

So even if you come here with good intentions and good ideas... which is noble... why do you expect partners to give you a clean slate? To make it easier for you? You are going to pay for mistakes of other men. It may not be fair, but it is NATURAL.

If you can't suck it up, can't empathize and instead are hell bent on winning the argument then you are NOT gonna win, you are NOT gonna be heard, you are gonna be pushed back, labeled and will end up in the same category as the worst of them.

It's not supposed to be easy. Tread lightly.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2016, 02:15:58 PM by happysad »

Johan

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Re: He says, she says... zzz
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2016, 01:55:31 PM »
Same here
I also rarely post anymore, but i read this partners section every day. This is most interesting part in this whole forum.
I'ts true that men (like me) started reboot from physical reasons, but that is smallest part of the problem and easiest to fix.
So to all women here, please keep posting.

Loleekins

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Re: He says, she says... zzz
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2016, 12:34:14 AM »
Great post, Happysad. You nailed it.
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities --- Voltaire

Kimba

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Re: He says, she says... zzz
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2016, 01:16:58 AM »
I'm not interested in sitting on a high horse I'm just here to let things go and try and move on. Like out in the real world there are good bad and moronic peeps  ::)

Anyway I like what u typed Happysad and of course I agree haha

See ya  :D
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The Truth

malando

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Re: He says, she says... zzz
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2016, 03:27:45 AM »
As somebody who is almost 11 months porn free I don't really read much in the addicts section. Almost all there is is the math of porn addiction. Science terms, boner counting, triggers etc. It was interesting for a while, but now I just don't care about reading about urges and woods that much.

I rarely post anymore, but I do come to the partners section every now and then to read. There is so much interesting, layered and emotionally complex content here that it's just much more educating at my stage.

I've been at RN for a year now, and I see there's many more addicts posting in the partners section than there used to be. There is nothing wrong with that, but guys... one good advice. Grow a thicker skin.

If you're not ready for the negative generalizations posted by partners of PA, than you are neither recovered (and still carry some self resentment) nor truly empathetic (which makes you want to WIN an argument if you believe you're right, even at the cost of "safety" of this place).

Women who have terrible experiences will have their guards up. Why? Because they are HUMAN. I mean come on, If you read any of those topics by cuppatea, Sopie123, or stilme you can tell it is a HARROWING experience for them.

And you should be able to tell by now: IT IS SO MUCH HARDER FOR PARTNERS!

As a PA you have brought it upon yourself!
As a Partner it's a blow to the core of your self worth that you didn't deserve!
Aa a PA you can fix it yourself!
As a Partner you can support change, but the handle of the screwdriver that is in your gut... is in the hands of another person.
As a PA you have all the science of porn addiction to defend your actions.
As a Partner you're very often stuck with "I didn't know I was destroying you".

So even if you come here with good intentions and good ideas... which is noble... why do you expect partners to give you a clean slate? To make it easier for you? You are going to pay for mistakes of other men. It may not be fair, but it is NATURAL.

If you can't suck it up, can't empathize and instead are hell bent on winning the argument then you are NOT gonna win, you are NOT gonna be heard, you are gonna be pushed back, labeled and will end up in the same category as the worst of them.

It's not supposed to be easy. Tread lightly.

I actually agree with what you've said here. Peace.

BuddhaAwake

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Re: He says, she says... zzz
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2016, 04:43:29 PM »
Great post, happysad!

As a PA, I come to this forum to remind myself of what I've done and to see if I can contribute something of value.

As far as the "alternate" porn site that "isn't porn,"- imho -bull. Porn is porn. Porn, whether made by men or women, is the objectification of people for the false, empty fulfillment of twisted desires. Telling yourself it is better than other porn is as much of the lie of porn as convincing yourself women are not treated as a disposable commodity to be used and disposed of with a click of the mouse. Any support of any facet of the porn industry is supplanting a real, respectful, mutual relationship with  selfish gratification. 

As far as a partner's responsibility/role in the addiction- total nonsense. Alcoholics drink because that's what alcoholics do. PAs PMO because that's what PAs do. PAs can find as many excuses to PMO as their imaginations can cling to. To blame the partner is like an abusive man saying "If she didn't get on my nerves so much I wouldn't have to hit her!"

Partners are collateral damage, not partners in creating the problem. Bless them that so many are willing to stand beside us against all the reasons we give them not to. It's a wonder more don't run to the nearest exit.







cuppatea

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Re: He says, she says... zzz
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2016, 04:52:19 PM »
Thank you Buddawake. It is nice to hear from addicts that get it. Running for the exit has crossed my kind more than once. I only hope that one day my husband is the man making posts like those of yours and happysad.

Kimba

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Re: He says, she says... zzz
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2016, 07:23:22 PM »
Made me cry Buddha as my partner is exactly how u describe, deep down he is justifying tearing me apart from the inside out I'm not sure how much more I can take, I commend u on your journey stay strong as it's a jungle out there haha x
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The Moon
The Truth

BuddhaAwake

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Re: He says, she says... zzz
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2016, 11:41:09 AM »
I wish you the best, Kimba. I hope your partner "Gets it" at some point soon. I admit I can lie, make excuses, and justify the unjustifiable with the best of them. I am only five days free this time around, and it is only by reminding myself to own what I think and feel that I have been able to make good choices so far.

Ytrewq

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Re: He says, she says... zzz
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2016, 04:52:36 PM »
Hey guys and girls, I think I owe some of you an apology. I didn't initially understand that this forum is entirely against all forms of porn, not just porn addiction, and I shouldn't have argued with other partners about it.

The reason I joined here was to hopefully gain some perspective from other partners who supported their porn addicted partner, but it seems to be more of a support group for partners who have been lied to about porn, not so much a section devoted to what we can do as partners to help porn addicts recover.

That's totally fair though and after having found out about this I stopped pushing my beliefs about porn.
I may occasionally still comment on topics I find interesting (within the rules), but I've joined a porn addict support forum with a broader range of perspectives, some more in line with my own to avoid stepping on any toes around here.

Best of luck everyone, and sorry again for not respecting the beliefs of many of you :)