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Messages - malando

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1
Partners of Rebooters and Addicts / Re: Please help part 2
« on: June 10, 2019, 10:29:44 AM »
That's really sad to hear, D72. The fact that he's still using and lying about it to your face is not encouraging. If you are still thinking about working this out with him, I think some tough ultimatums need to be given. Tell him you can tell he's lying, and no amount of denial is going to talk you around. Tell him he is going to have to pull off the mother of all turn-arounds to get you to trust him again - and that every lie puts another nail in the trust coffin. I think you should also tell him you are assessing your options regarding him/you moving out and what future separation looks like. He needs the fear of god put into him, so to speak. And if potentially losing you isn't enough to motivate him (to tell the truth at the very least) then I'm sorry, but he isn't showing you the same love you show for him. And that, can't be tolerated.

I feel for you, I really do. I can't abide lying in relationships. It infuriates me. One thing I never did when I was using P was lie about it. My partner wasn't even the one troubled by my porn use - I decided for myself that it was bad news, and I persuaded her to stop watching it too. We no longer have this poison in our lives, and I believe porn changes all relationships for the worse - regardless of the sexual-liberty BS people try to attach to it. As Josh Radnor put it: "Porn kills love". It takes away empathy and tenderness, reduces people to body parts, encourages exploitation, kills appreciation and interest. Your husband needs to read up on this and learn about what it's doing to you, your relationship and his own brain. Porn will destroy him if he isn't careful. And it will do it one day at a time, and he won't even notice what's happening. It's takes the joy out of everything you do.

2
Thanks for your openness, HoMF. It's important to talk about these things.

Far from being impossible to conceptualise what you describe - I suspect what you wrote rings true in a lot of people here. Being a porn addict can lead you down a lot of very dangerous rabbit holes. Most addicts have viewed, or been obsessed with various paraphilia  at least some of the time. Although you are probably at the more severe end of the spectrum due to your early experience, it is a relatable story because all severe porn addicts end up searching high and low for dopaminergic super-hits just to keep the arousal feeling from dying away. This usually results in having a selected range of "tastes" which can be highly obsessive for a period of time. Some of these are along the lines of what you describe.

The way you are handling it is an inspiration to those who are struggling to believe that they can change. Your situation, being so severe, and yet you are making real progress, gives hope to many others. We mustn't succumb to our weaknesses. We must fight them so that they don't consume us and change us into freaks we wouldn't even recognise if we could have looked into the future at an earlier age.

Thanks again. M.

3
Ages 30-39 / Re: Rich's 90 Days
« on: May 29, 2019, 05:50:32 PM »
Rich, I can see things are very tough for you at the moment. I think it might help if you keep very mindful about your life situation. Whenever your lust is raging and your desire to stare at breasts comes to the fore, remind yourself of this very simple fact:
"These breasts, these hot women, don't give a flying fuck about me. They don't want me, they have no feelings for me, they don't care what happens to my life. The only woman who does actually care about me, is my wife"

Give it a try. Sometimes it can help to bring things back to a very simple truth and remind yourself of it regularly, or when you feel the noise starting to build in your mind.

4
Ages 30-39 / Re: NoFap Consciousness
« on: May 24, 2019, 05:20:25 AM »
Hi Georgos, I have a question for you: how badly do you actually desire the following?:
(a) a sexual interaction with a woman,
(b) a relationship with a woman,
(c) a family with a woman.

See if you can rank them out of a maximum of 10 points. I'd be interested to understand where your motivations are. Perhaps there are proverbial carts being placed before horses which is making the process less logical and more convoluted. As much as people like to mystify the process of finding "the one", there are logical steps that can be taken to direct one's life towards specific goals.

5
Partners of Rebooters and Addicts / Re: Please help
« on: May 23, 2019, 04:46:03 PM »
That's a really tough situation you're in, D72. I'm sure the prospect of separating when you have a child with complex needs makes this all the more daunting. I won't make recommendations on what you should do - because I think this is something you need to come to in your own time. But I do think you may have an issue with defending your boundaries and this is something you should really prioritise at this time. Regardless of what direction this takes, you must respect yourself and your boundaries - and make sure your husband knows that he can't breach them.

The sad thing about severe porn addiction is that it kind of disables large parts of a person's human qualities - it can make somebody quite stupid, in fact. Addicts typically:
- play down the severity of their addiction
- pretend they've recovered
- are expert liars
- think they've recovered far too soon
- think the damage they've caused can be fixed quickly
- think they can keep using as long as they aren't caught
- think they can still use porn occasionally as long as they have a 2 day break prior to sex
- they will lack ambition and motivation
- lack spontaneity
- lack empathy
- lack comprehension
- lack interest in children... the list goes on and on.

It's a devastating thing for addict and partner. In my opinion, only the most determined person can reverse porn addiction and restore a healthy relationship with their partner and within themselves. So what you will want to see is a very steadfast and determined direction from your husband - a resolve to do better in every way, and real heartfelt statements that he understands what he's done and what he's going to do about it. This must not look like a mild effort until the heat is off. Make sure he knows that this is what you expect, what you demand, to even have a hope of reconciling your marriage.

I understand your living situation doesn't lend itself to drastic action - but also make sure he knows that even if you are under the same roof, this doesn't automatically mean you are just going to calm down and get over this. He needs to know just how big a mess he's made of this, and just how much work he's going to have to do to even begin to repair it and regain some trust from you. He also needs to come to terms with not having this process laid out for him. He needs to live with the uncertainly that this might not work out - regardless of his best efforts. And he needs to be ok with this, and see it as something he should do anyway - as recompense to you, as a show of remorse, as a display of intent to be a better man regardless of what happens with your marriage. I would suggest he should have his own bed in another room until such time as you want him in your bed. A bed is a place of safety and security - it should feel like the person sharing it with you represents that. At this time, he doesn't - so I think it's better if you make your own safety and security until such time that you feel he has earned his place next to you.

I don't want to sound too punitive about your husband. I don't know him and I don't know the level of his contrition. But I sense you need some encouragement in defending your boundaries and so I'm focusing on that. You deserve better than this. Don't be afraid to ask for what you need. As a mother, your well being is also important to your children and you are also setting an example of  to them of what respect and consideration look like in a relationship. So there are important values at stake here. You have our support here, know that. M.

6
Partners of Rebooters and Addicts / Re: Please help
« on: May 23, 2019, 01:44:51 PM »
I can really feel your pain, D72. I think it's good that you are in touch with your feelings to the degree that you are. It will help to lead you to the right decision for you.

One observation: I think he's using the "sore back" excuse to try to keep proximity to you - a form of denial that things might be heading towards a permanent end. I would say that whether he has a sore back or not, he should not have the right to sleep next to you at this time. Either he has to deal with his back as part of his penance, or he should be resourceful enough to organise himself another bed in another room. But using postural comfort as a way to keeping proximity to you is not a good thing to do. You deserve, and should have the right, to make the call on how close you are to him. This really is about you at this time. It's time to put yourself and your needs first (for the first time in a long while, by the sounds of it). I think making concessions out of guilt will not get you any closer to what you want and need from this situation. In a way, if you are still nursing any hopes of a reconciliation, you need to see how he responds to you drawing your boundaries and to you making him uncomfortable. How he handles the sofa bed will reveal much about his intent to change, and own his behaviour. Any sign that he's complaining and calling you unfair or unreasonable will inform you about his level of selfishness and will to change and take responsibility. Just a thought... Best of luck. M.

7
Women / Re: Its a process...I guess.
« on: May 13, 2019, 07:19:43 PM »
Wow, state record! Congratulations! How much did you lift?

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Ages 30-39 / Re: Rich's 90 Days
« on: May 13, 2019, 06:03:01 AM »
Checking in on the day after.  I missed an AA meeting because I went to the wrong address.  The next AA meeting is at 8:15, so I will be leaving for that at around 7:45 pm.  I actually look forward to the meeting and working on my alcoholism.  Yep, Malando, my behavior last night definitely was against my vows.  But I blame the alcohol.  When I drink I turn into a different person, or a much worse version of myself.  AA meeting tonight.  I think that in concert with my work here at Reboot Nation I will start to see considerable improvement.

Going to keep track of all of my sobriety dates on here, so:

Abstaining from PMO/Erotica: Day 1/90
Abstaining from alcohol: Day 1
Abstaining from candy/soda (helps me to stay sober of alcohol): Day 1/90

Rich
I understand what you are saying, Rich - although I would suggest it's better not "blame alcohol" as though it's a disembodied spirit that makes you do things. It's part of a suite of behaviours that you are trying to change. I get that. When I quit porn I also had to do battle with my addiction to overeating and sugar in particular. It was part of my suite of behaviours that involved overindulgence and excessive pleasure seeking. I'm not completely out of the woods yet. It's a long slow battle. I think porn was the gateway to the other behaviours. Porn literally makes us insane, you know? I still remember the maniacal fervour of a "good" PMO session. It was like being possessed. It's actually quite frightening. It certainly bled into my relationships in terms of how sexually focussed I was. It was too important. So we are learning to scale back these pleasure seeking traits we have, day by day. Keep trying, Rich, you will get there.

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Ages 30-39 / Re: Rich's 90 Days
« on: May 12, 2019, 12:59:07 AM »
That's heavy, Rich. I don't really understand what you did at that strip club - on one hand you said you didn't cheat on your wife there, but it was involved enough to reset your PMO counter. What exactly happened? What lines were crossed? How will you integrate what happened with your mind/ethics, and the direction you are following? Just trying to understand this. I've never been to a strip club, I don't even know what people do there.

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Very interesting thoughts, PH, thanks for sharing. A lot to ponder there.

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I enjoy reading your posts PH, but any chance of some paragraphs? Very hard to read in that format.

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Partners of Rebooters and Addicts / Re: Please help
« on: April 28, 2019, 10:58:58 PM »
Oh my, wow, that is truly a devastating turn of events. I'm not sure what I can say to help, but I really feel for you, and I'm very sorry this is happening to you. Porn is an absolute scourge on humanity - it ruins people and relationships. I think you are justified in any action you choose to take. Make the choice that is right for you and don't feel guilty about it. Best of luck, M.

13
I wouldn't jump to any conclusions based solely on your own experience and what turns you on or off. Everyone has different turn ons.

I would say if you don't like porn because of the actor's skin color then you are racist. There is nothing wrong with being racist, it just gets bad publicity. I believe everyone is racist to some degree. Most people have a certain preference for a certain skin color in their mate, that is racism. For instance if a caucasion woman is not turned on by a man simply because he is black then she is racist. This is a fact of life. It is just not politically correct to be racist so everyone denies that they are.
I think for me there was an certainly a lot of identification when I was watching porn. I wanted the male to be white (like me) and not ridiculously endowed because it affected whether I could insert myself into the fantasy. I wasn't able to do that with black men with 13" penises. I couldn't relate to that, so I didn't find that arousing at all. Call it racism if you like. As far as the woman depicted, I didn't care too much what ethnicity she was. So that points towards me thinking it was about whether I could substitute myself as the male when watching porn. I could imagine being with a woman of any ethnicity. I don't think it was classic racism because I've always had friends of all different skin colours. It was purely about what function porn was fulfilling for me. Geez, I'm glad I'm not still doing that anymore.

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Ages 30-39 / Re: NoFap Consciousness
« on: April 21, 2019, 12:29:14 PM »
Pete is right - don't obsess about your age, just get on with trying to find a decent partner. That's the main hurdle you have to jump - finding a woman who wants kids and is happy to have them with you. I didn't become a father until I turned 42. I honestly don't think it would have made any difference if I were 46. I get what you're saying, you don't want to be 50 and starting out, but you do have time. When you find the right woman, things tend to fall into place.

15
I would like to see some real studies done on that, not just arm chair theorizing. I am 51 years old, I have been masturbating for 38 years and I am not in the least bit homosexual, I do not have homosexual thoughts or tendencies. After my divorce I spent two months thinking about becoming homosexual because it would be an easier relationship but what I found is that I am simply not sexually attracted to men. I guess that shoots your theory right in the foot.
There is simply no evidence that this theory has any validity - only one guy with an intense desire to argue a connection between homosexuality and masturbation. Maybe it's his way of motivating himself to give up masturbation. But it's not science. It's very superficial deductive reasoning and it's not gaining any traction. Geez, imagine how many teenage boys and men are being gay right now...

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Ages 30-39 / Re: NoFap Consciousness
« on: April 13, 2019, 01:44:24 PM »
Sorry to hear you aren't feeling it, Georgos. But now that you're sure, you have to let her go so she can find somebody who is into her.  It's the right thing to do. Hopefully the next girl you date will be more attractive to you and you will not spend so long in paralysis by analysis. I think you have learned some things from this experience so it wasn't a waste of time.

17
I'm not going to bother debating this any further with you UF. You aren't really here for discussion. I think you're just here to shout this masturbation/homosexuality conflation from the rooftops, not to debate it. I want no part of it. I also advise you to tread carefully with the homophobic ranting or I'll delete this thread.

18
There's a 3rd option, you know: it's not homosexual or heterosexual, there's a word for it: it's just masturbation. You are against Homosexuality and you are against masturbation, and it seems like you are trying to link the two for the sake of expediency. I don't think the logic is sound though. sex with yourself can't be compared to sex with another person - regardless of the gender. Most people do not masturbate because of a lustful attraction to themselves. There are other thoughts and motivations behind masturbation. It's also worth noting that it's quite common in the animal kingdom too. It would seem to be a natural adaptation in certain situations. Let's take a severely disabled person, for example. He may feel he can't be with another person, but who are we to say that he can't have a sexuality or sexual needs?

19
Interesting observations, but I also think the interpretations are too extreme. There is also a lot of puritanical judgement in your interpretation. You were only one step away from talking about how it's against God's will.

As far as being potentially gay: who knows, but then again who cares? If it led to an interest of desire for the body of men, is that in itself a moral problem?

As far as comparing the act of masturbation/fantasy to imagining a woman while fucking your cat: well, no, because masturbation is not about exploiting or involving another living creature. It's about simulating a real experience with a faked one. One in which you suspend your disbelief and disengage from the reality of ideas like you are being touched by a man/you are touching a man. I can see what you are driving at, there is an element of truth to what you say there, there is that implication there, but you also forget that the human brain has enormous capacity for imagination and fantasy. I believe masturbation is not quite the abomination you present it to be because it evolved out of necessity for times and individuals where there is no access to real sex.

Even when you are having sex with a woman, if you are aroused by the sight of your own member entering her, is that also gay? How far do you take this? Does being interested in your own body make you gay?

I'm not saying masturbation is to be promoted as a lifestyle, and it certainly has its pitfalls, but I think you jump to far too many extreme conclusions and interpretations in your post. Nevertheless, I did find it interesting to ponder.

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Ages 30-39 / Re: Rich's 90 Days
« on: April 09, 2019, 08:18:35 AM »
Welcome back, Rich. Must be strange to be back on home soil again.

21
I don't think all porn addicts can point to a troubled upbringing - I can definitely agree with that. But I do think all porn addicts suffer damage and changes to their personality. The skill is in determining the origin of the maladaptation, whether it's in childhood or post addiction, or a combination of both. For some, resolving the childhood issues might make it easy to quit porn. For others, the porn generated the issues. For anyone: quitting porn helps them to sort out their issues.

Quote
So obviously porn and cheating are just symptoms and we will work on a therapy to activate my emotional side and also resolve any misconceptions re relationships that come from my childhood. Stopping porn or cheating will not solve the problems automatically, if the underlying problems are still there, I will eventually relapse. However if I focus on the underlying problems and solve those, I will probably not need to soothe myself with other women or porn anyway and stop it much easily.

Does that make sense? -
It does make sense. It explains some of your tendencies. But I also think you have to stop doing it at all costs. It's not a situation in which you can keep doing that until you unlock the secret to your brain, and then you won't want/need to. Every time you do that, you strengthen those tendencies. It's reward. It's habit. It's conditioning. It makes it that much harder to give it up. Part of re-conditioning your brain is behavioural and you have to stop the bad behaviours. In principle you know that what you are doing is wrong because it's against the values you agreed upon with your wife. She would not tolerate or understand this behaviour - therefore it's a betrayal. I understand that you feel disconnected with this moral code, due to the reasons you explained, but I think you really must put a stop to it while you explore the issue in therapy. Otherwise, the examination becomes half-hearted. The resolve is lost to push it to a conclusion while it continues to be actively rewarding. You must live the life you aspire to. I used to overeat to to emotional problems from my childhood. But it wasn't healthy for me to continue to do that while going to therapy to resolve my issues so that I could have better self-control and stop overeating. That is an absurd cycle of reasoning. I knew I had to stop overeating, and I had to stop that while I was working on my issues. The fact that it was hard to stop eating made it all the more urgent that I resolve the issues so that I wouldn't be in eternal purgatory waiting for the solution. Does that make sense? For you it's one step more serious because you are not just transgressing against yourself, but against your wife (and indirectly against your child). So you have even more motivation to stop this. It should be painful to give anything up - that's what motivates people to give up. The pain confirms the hold it has on you and the damage it's causing you. The pain decreases as the hold is reduced.

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Ages 30-39 / Re: NoFap Consciousness
« on: April 09, 2019, 06:35:03 AM »
Best of luck, Georgos. Hope it goes well - try to focus on having a good time and concentrate on what things you like about her. Everything else is noise.

23
Is it possible that your porn addiction changed your thinking about respect for women? I can see that you see logical reasons why it's a bad idea for you to be constantly cheating on your wife and using women for your momentary pleasure, but to be honest, I don't really see you feeling conflicted about it beyond how it disrupts your sense of equilibrium. You don't seem to wrestle that much morally or ethically with what you're doing. And for that reason I think you'll keep doing it unless there is a major epiphany regarding your marriage and what you value. Do you think you need a moral/ethical recalibration so that you can make better choices and show some respect for you wife and child? It might be the changes to your personality that are the real consequence of your porn addiction days, more than the addiction or PIED etc. Do you think values and ethics will form a major part of your therapy?

24
The reason I think MG should run from this therapist is not just because he has a different view of porn or porn addiction, but because he's displaying dominance over his patient. He's not listening to a very real concern and anxiety his patient has, and is trying to brainwash him and pound the pulpit over this issue too - using authority to dominate, holding a dogmatic monologue. Reducing the problem on behalf of the patient. That's a worry for me in a therapeutic dynamic. That attitude can cause problems across the entire scope of the therapy. (I wonder whether this therapist has his own issues around porn...)

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Ages 30-39 / Re: NoFap Consciousness
« on: April 05, 2019, 07:03:11 PM »
I wouldn't say I was directing you towards magical thinking, Georgos, but away from the idea of conscious control of things that I don't believe you can successfully control. Maybe you are talking about something different, like situation management - not letting certain things be either out of awareness which you feel are pivotal to managing your condition appropriately. But I was saying you should have a sharper focus around connection with the things that you find engaging about your partner and be less worried about the whole  multitude of concerns you have. Like it or not, the sexual act is largely automated - and it's designed by evolution to be that way. The more deep the thinking, the less physical it's going to be. That's fine as far as building your connection goes on the emotional level. I won't tell you how to build your connection with your girlfriend on the whole, but when it comes to how things go on the sexual level, I think it's a mistake to be flooded with thoughts when trying to experience a physical encounter. Some thoughts, sure, but not too many. If they can be reduced to an absolute minimum, I think that's vastly preferable. In a way, the actual sexual response is the "magical" bit. It relies on you not being to caught up in your head or it deflates like a leaky balloon. It's up to you to decide what you should focus on, I suppose. And I'm sorry if you feel I've been dogmatic in my advice to you. I guess I don't know what it's like to have the concerns you have in regards to intimacy. But I do know that successful intimacy relies on not being distracted by too many things. So I would say you should try to trim down the scope of your thoughts and get them down to a bare bones level and then you need to have some of your focus on her and what you find attractive about her. I accept you have different concerns than I have, but I do think that this comes down to how many worries the mind can deal with at one time.

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