Reboot Nation

Journals => Ages 30-39 => Topic started by: Georgos on May 10, 2016, 02:34:43 PM

Title: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 10, 2016, 02:34:43 PM
So I'll introduce myself. My experience with porn started before puberty when I started drawing my own pornographic pictures. I didn't really look at porn produced by others until we got the internet and even then it started with me just looking at anime, not even pornographic pictures, just suggestive ones. Eventually I started looking at actual porn on the internet. Since day one of fapping I have counted every day that I didn't fap, trying to stop, I was so ashamed. At the age of 21 I had a breakdown over my shame and developed psychosis, the years of fapping wasn't the only factor, but it was the trigger. As I said, I counted every day I didn't fap since I was about seven years old. For most of my life my record was 20 days and that was only once. Then about eight years ago I started reading spiritual books and though I was brought up an atheist I decided to give meditation and prayer a go. Even if it is only a form of auto-suggestion, it had immediate benefits. About six years ago I managed to finally stop making my own pornographic pictures. I started being able to go months at a time without fapping. My record now is five months. I achieved all of this on my own (or maybe with the help of a higher power) without any communication with the outside world about my addiction. However, my record of five months was a few years ago, and since then I have gone back to once every ten to fifteen days or so, sometimes more. Today marked the tenth day. I started suffering serious withdrawals. I prayed and managed to resist for most of the day, but the withdrawals didn't go away. In the end I succumbed. That was when I decided to reach out and see if within a community I could get better results. My aim remains the same, to stop for good. Finally, as a side note, I should mention that I still suffer from psychotic episodes from time to time and am wary about posting on the internet lest I post something crazy. If I do I hope you will be supportive and understand that it is a result of my mental illness. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 11, 2016, 03:22:04 AM
Day 1... it is not so hard for me to go a few days so I'm not going to post about that... what I wanted to post about was my thoughts on the whole reality of nofap. I have read some of the other journals and noticed a mentality that I can relate to strongly. However, what I want to say is that this mentality is the real issue, not porn. Some people look at porn and joke about it openly, when they're with other guys, some even feel comfortable discussing it with females. They view it as fantasy and can easily place it in that category of reality. They don't confuse it with sexual activity with a partner. They may even look quite a lot. But their attitude towards it is that it is entertainment and they don't get emotionally involved. Other men, perhaps a minority in this day and age don't look at porn at all, but still masturbate. I don't know what the percentages are, but whenever I've broached the subject, it seems to me that 99% of men masturbate. Now 99% of men don't have the mentality of people on this site, which if you forgive me I would say is somewhat neurotic (I include myself in this description). Counting the days, obsessed with the notion of relapsing, this is a form of neurosis or obsessive compulsive behaviour to my mind. It is a bit like the relationship anorexics have with food. The difference is that not fapping or not looking at porn has beneficial effects on your life, in Chinese medicine for example it is actually regarded as the ideal with benefits to health, let alone self-esteem. Anorexia on the other hand is not healthy. So I am not saying that people shouldn't try to stop looking at porn or masturbate. It is a really good thing to be able to do. However, I am saying that the mentality of many on this site, including me, is the real problem. The problem is not porn, it's us. After meditation my state of being improved much, not just because I was able to go longer periods without looking at porn, but because I came to accept myself and my actions more and not feel so ashamed. The flip side of this was that by no longer feeling so guilty at looking at porn, I weakened my commitment to stopping, but I felt better about myself. Now I really do want to stop looking at porn. I get emotionally involved and it corrupts my ability to form meaningful relationships with women, let alone sexual ones. But what I am trying to say is that this is a deeper problem to do with my mentality and managing of emotions. Porn doesn't help. It is the escape, that acts to stop one dealing with these deeper problems, by getting rid of porn from your life you force yourself to focus on the real problems in your life. However it is important to acknowledge that this obsession with counting days is a form of projection of all your problems on to the one compulsive activity of watching porn, like the anorexic projecting on to the natural drive to eat food. Of course eating junk food is no good. Looking at porn a lot is like eating a lot of junk food. It is damaging. As I said, I want to stop. However, I don't want to be counting days for the rest of my life. I want to transcend my compulsion to look at porn, simply lose interest, and I want to have a healthy relationship with sexual feelings. Let me be clear, I want to stop looking at porn, not just for six months, not just for a year, but for good! As I said in my previous post, I have never managed more than five months, and that was only once. I am hoping that by joining this community, and getting feedback, particularly when I am suffering from withdrawal symptoms, I will be able to achieve my aim. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: TiramiSu on May 11, 2016, 06:04:13 AM
I totally agree - the idea of counting is odd. But in the beginning it helps. yeah we should all just get rid of pmo.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: offaxis on May 11, 2016, 10:06:06 AM
I can understand your desire to get off porn and how you describe wanting to change your attitude towards sex and women.

You seem to have great success before some years ago but then came back to porn, why? I think perhaps because the things that were negative in your life and compelling you to use porn probably weren't solved really.

For me, a turning point has been not just intellectually understanding that attitude change but feeling it too and reflecting it in my behaviour. It's a bit of a catch-22 and you have to find some way to break through and keep persevering until you do.

Paradoxically, the more you focus on how many days, or not thinking about it, the harder it is. My best times of progress feel like they've been when I'm very engaged with life and then don't feel the pull of porn at all. But it's a step by step thing, so I hope you can be kind to yourself through that.

I am kind of finding sex a bit boring now as a concept. Rather than being the most important thing and be all and end all, it's taking much more of a backseat in my life at the moment. I realised my view was really badly skewed before, that sex and porn was more important than pretty much anything in my life. That's messed up and not how a balanced person thinks. Sure, people have a basic need for sex but it's similar as the need to eat, drink, have a roof over your head etc. Important but not the sole focus of my life, and the better things in life come after those basic needs are met. When your obsessing over something, how can you grow into a more fulfilling life?
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 11, 2016, 12:59:55 PM
Thanks offaxis and TirimiSu... I think you're right the things that were negative in my life have been properly solved yet. The five months I abstained were really good for my self-esteem, but in that time I completely lost my sex drive. Since I was still a virgin, this worried me as losing my virginity was a huge issue for me. After I started to worry about not being interested in sex enough I found myself looking at porn again. I finally lost my virginity when I was 33. This had several effects, some positive and some negative with regards to looking at porn. The positive effects were that like you I realised that sex was not the be all and end all. I stopped obsessing about it. The negative effects was that whilst I enjoyed the foreplay, the actual sex seemed less pleasurable than masturbation (probably because I was so inexperienced). On top of this, I found having a girlfriend required a lot of effort on my part. These things made me think that maybe I should just accept that I experienced sexual gratification through porn or at least masturbation. The problem is porn still makes me feel bad inside, I cannot treat it like a joke. I feel low-self esteem and anxious that I get my sexual gratification without an emotional relationship. I invest emotionally in the porn, and of course get nothing in return. I don't obsess about having sex any more, but I do crave emotional intimacy. My relationship lasted six months, and I haven't had another one since (I am now 36). Thus the real problem is emotionally connecting with women. Porn doesn't help, in fact it acts to displace the problem, with my attention completely focused on trying to stop. It is also a vicious cycle of investing emotionally in something that gives nothing emotionally in return. As I said, when I stopped for five months, I completely lost my sex drive, and since I thought that was important in forming a sexual relationship, I relapsed. Now, when my focus is elsewhere, I can go the odd month without looking at porn, however when my sex drive returns, I reach for the porn. I really don't know what the solution is. I still want to stop looking at porn for good and I am thinking that I need to learn to be able to ride through the discomfort of feeling sexual compulsion but not acting on it. I have never managed that in the past, either I have simply not had the compulsions, or I have acted on them. I am hoping that engaging with this community will help me overcome this hurdle. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: TiramiSu on May 12, 2016, 02:18:13 AM
Georgeous,

you said I am thinking that I need to learn to be able to ride through the discomfort of feeling sexual compulsion but not acting on it

you are right, as men we need to learn not to be depend on our sexual gratification. We must learn to go through very bad emotions. If we can withstand very bad emotions, we can master everything. But that is a long and difficult way to learn and go through
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 12, 2016, 03:28:58 AM
Day Two... thank you TiramiSu
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 15, 2016, 05:47:30 PM
So it's day 5 going on 6 and no real urges to look at porn yet... as I said I have gone a month many times... it all depends when the urges come... so long as there are no urges I'm fine... usually it starts with me thinking I've done pretty well... then thinking of how far away a year or even six months is... then going over and over the days in my head until I start to get serious urges to look... then I resist for a couple of days before out of nowhere I just cave and say f*ck it... then afterwards I feel terrible... like I said, I've been doing this for most of my life and it's become a neurosis with me... hopefully this time, now that I'm actually sharing my experience with like minded people, I'll be able to quit for good... anyway, as I said, I'm not getting any urges yet, however, had some minor psychotic symptoms today in a bar. My filter goes and I become conscious of all the conversations around me and body language and relate it to myself or to other people. My psychosis is definitely linked to my porn use over the years, and also to my incel, which is a term I came across recently for the in(voluntary) cel(ibacy). Apparently it's a condition identified by some wacky psychiatrist which a small but significant proportion of men identify with. Having read up about it I relate to a lot of the symptoms. Don't know if anyone else on this site does or knows about it, but I suspect a few do. Anyway, psychosis involves one's filter of what relates to oneself breaking and so becoming conscious of one's environment in a heightened way that relates to oneself. If I'm focused on sex then obviously I interpret the conversations as relating to that. So in the bar I was thinking that couples were jostling for establishing the pecking order, either by establishing where they stood, or if they had established where they stood, either trying to help other relationships or laughing at other relationships. Don't know if I expressed that very well, but anyway, hopefully you get the idea. It was a struggle not to feel paranoid, what with my weird incel reactions, but luckily now that I finally lost my virginity three years ago, I am slightly more confident than I used to be before. Back home now, and feeling better, we'll see how the week pans out.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 17, 2016, 01:14:41 PM
Day seven... had my first real urge to look at porn today... don't know how to describe it, it's like a dirty cloud of smog of desire descends on my brain and says "you want to look at porn!"... the first thing I thought of was to write here, and that's good. Now I have somewhere to share my situation with and hopefully this will help me get through the urges. The urge was not that severe and it has gone now, but this is only day seven :(
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 22, 2016, 11:43:31 AM
Day 12 and no urges since I last posted... things are going well. The only problem is since starting this journal I've stopped all the other activities I was trying to do to get me out of the dead-end situation I'm in.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 22, 2016, 03:21:42 PM
Well I have discovered something new... DE... I didn't think I had any major problems due to PMO (I think that's the right acronym, I get a little lost)... as I said, I have only had sex twice and I had no problem with ED... however I didn't actually ejaculate at all... I was quite proud of this... two reasons, one is that as far as I understand it, Traditional Chinese health practices say that you should try not to ejaculate when you have sex or masturbate, and the other is that again as far as I understand it, in the perfect sex, both partners orgasm at the same time... since as far as I'm aware she didn't orgasm (being new to this I don't really know but I assume I would know if she did), I thought it was good that I had DE... indeed the thing I was most worried about was my fitness... I hardly do any exercise... don't know what people's thoughts are on this...
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 25, 2016, 03:49:50 AM
Day 15... I felt the first stirrings of impatience today. Just re-read what offaxis had to say about it, how it is a form of bargaining and denial. That's very helpful. I've been trying to stop in private almost from the moment I started nearly 30 years ago. The whole battle has become a comfort as well as a burden. Obviously my life is better without porn, but once that battle is conquered I have to face up to dealing with all the other issues of life. It is easier to fail and then go back to focusing on porn as the only problem I have to deal with. A vicious cycle. In my life I rarely finish what I set out to do, and I think this practice has developed due to my constant starting to give up porn and then giving up. I have trained myself to fail. It is easy to blame the process of counting days. One sets a goal and then when one reaches the goal one feels "so what", my life is still full of problems, not realising that problems are part of life and the challenge is to face the new ones. Also, I find that when I set a goal, I end up setting mini goals, like today. When I got to ten days I said, let's just get through the next five days, to fifteen. I started calculating what day of the week that would be, and yes I made it, but now I've got to get to 20 days, and there is still 350 days left of my target. It can be depressing counting days. As I've said in previous posts, I've counted every day that I didn't look at porn almost since I started. Actually, there have been times recently, in the last few years, where I've completely forgotten to count, and these have been the most successful. However after a month, or even two months, I've remembered when I stopped, and got over confident. "I'm cured" I've thought. "I've done it". Then after the initial euphoria, I've realised that my life is still full of problems, and I've fallen back on the old problem, which after all I've proved I can solve, and so relapsed. It seems silly to say, but dealing with porn is perhaps the easiest problem to deal with, one simply has to do nothing for n number of days and one is winning. This is why I am worried that I've stopped the activities that I was trying to force myself do. I stopped them as soon as I joined this site. Porn, or stopping porn, had once again become my focus. "This time I'm going to do it", I said to myself, and threw all my energy and motivation into this. One thing that I have realised, is that I need to work on my emotions. Reading italianwanker's posts about anger, I thought at first that I couldn't relate. "I don't get angry", I thought to myself. But perhaps that is the problem, I am just passive, not even passive aggressive, simply passive. Then when I have psychotic relapses there is a sudden outflow, not necessarily of anger, but of reaction to things I don't like. There is a difference between anger and assertiveness, I am not assertive either. I find banter really hard, often going over the top when I try to force myself to banter, like my post to pinkerton. Crude banter that isn't funny. So this is something that I need to work on. I'd like to start my routine of activities again. I was learning a language, (doing two sessions of an internet course a day), and trying to do fifteen minutes qigong a day. As I said I stopped these as soon as I joined the site. Again it was impatience. Just as with porn, I was doing these activities, and though at first I noticed an improvement in my life, after about ten days I gave up, realising that there are endless things to feel dissatisfied about. "What's the point?" I asked myself. "It doesn't make any difference, life is still life". I guess this is where having a girlfriend helps, it gives you someone else's life to care about. In a way this is also the advantage of this site. Seeing problems outside of oneself is a great comforter and helps to put things in perspective. Anyway, I'm still going strong, so will update in a few days with more progress. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 25, 2016, 04:06:20 PM
Someone mentioned "mindful masturbation". This is something I'd like to get good at, but at the moment I don't trust myself, masturbation is too associated with porn in my mind and one leads to the other. First a year without porn, then maybe get into the higher stuff.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 26, 2016, 12:51:54 PM
Felt miserable last night and this morning, don't know if that's because I'm finally moving out of my parents house. Won't have internet access for at least a couple of weeks unless I come home, so probably will be coming home for an hour or so every day. Found a site www.sexualreboot.com that talks a lot about the problems with counting days and has lots of other useful information. I'm in two minds about counting days, on the one hand as I said in previous posts, I've been counting days most of my life and it's never worked absolutely, indeed for much of my life I couldn't get past the twenty day mark, on the other hand it helps me to keep focused and doing it on this forum even more so. However that is one of sexualreboot's objections, one stays focused on the idea of porn, even if it is the idea of abstaining. Certainly the times I have done best have been when I've just forgotten about counting days and got on with my life. These times have largely been a result of meditation/prayer. However even then, I've usually only lasted about a month before I've relapsed. On balance, I think counting days is not the way to go, but this forum is. It's a form of group therapy. it keeps me focused on the reasons I don't want to look at porn, by reading other people's experiences. So from now on I'm not going to begin every post with the number of days I've gone, I know when I stopped, May 11th, so I might mention from time to time how well I'm doing, but I'm not going to wake up each morning and think: "day 16", "day 17" etc. That in itself will be hard, because over the years I've got so used to thinking in this way. I'm also going to try and post updates on what I'm doing that's positive in my life, like learning a language. I want to do a fifteen minute lesson every day. Did one yesterday. There are eighty lessons to go. Perhaps I will count these ;)
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on May 26, 2016, 03:23:45 PM
Hi Georgos,

You're moving house and it's a big life change and maybe it's a great time to make that final commitment to banishing P forever. You can make a pact with yourself to never allow P into your new house. Leave it behind and live a new life in your new house!

Best wishes.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 27, 2016, 03:13:12 AM
Thanks malando, of course that was on my mind, new start, no more porn ever!

Woke up and the first thing I did was read this forum. Started to feel anxious, as if I'd relapsed. Just the thought that I was a porn addict is enough to make me feel really distressed. However that is the point, I haven't relapsed, and the anxiety reminds me why I never want to go back. I think it was reading tostadora's latest post. I don't know if I read it correctly, does "four years working on it" mean he hasn't looked at porn for four years? The thought of not looking for four years and still being on this forum talking about urges filled me with anxiety about being an addict for life. I don't want to be an addict for life. I want to transcend this addiction so that porn no longer interests me at all. I know it can be done.

As far as my mental state goes, this forum seems to have helped a lot, (besides the anxiety of today), I've been pretty stable, without much psychotic symptoms.

I've done two language lessons so far. 79 to go ;)
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 29, 2016, 09:06:25 AM
After a couple of days of mild depression, today I feel relaxed and serene. Both of these experiences, the depression and the serenity, seem to be for no reason. The second day of the depression I could actually take a step back and just observe it. See it for what it was, a chemical low. The serenity is sort of the same. I don't feel the burning need to do anything, and this worries me just a little, at the edge of the serenity. But it feels good, and whilst I'd like to be doing something productive, I don't want to lose this good feeling. I've done five language lessons so far, 76 to go.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: sm on May 29, 2016, 03:43:10 PM
Hi Georgos, I totally get you. I started to recover at the beginning of the year and I'm still trying to figure out how It can be the best way to succeed for me. I had two very big steps forward in the last couple of months (moving and job), and I'm sure they happened because of me using less pornography and being more focused. Anyway, with these changes also new anxieties came and they push to porn again, to relax. I don't use it more than once a week, but every time i feel like shit.

good luck! i wish you all the best

ps. reading about your drawing made me remember that I used to do it myself when I was very young (VERY young, oh my god, how that stuff came to my mind?)
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 30, 2016, 11:27:51 AM
Thank you sm, it's always good to get feedback :)

With regards to the drawing, I was brought up to believe that women suffered in real porn, so had a strong inclination not to watch it, which is why I made pictures instead, they only exploited my imagination. My drawings didn't really feature penetration in any explicit detail, I had never had sex and hadn't seen a vagina in real life, and even now I cannot watch the penetration sequences or look at a vagina in real porn without feeling squeamish, in fact I generally switch them off. What I am drawn to (if you'll excuse the pun) is the sexual avariciousness of the women in porn and their bodies. The foreplay. So I never really looked much at anything hardcore, which is perhaps weirder than if I did. Even though I did click on hardcore movies, pretty much all porn on the internet is hardcore as far as I can see, I would turn them off when they got to the hardcore bits. Taking me as an example you can really see how the problem is our relationship with sexuality that we have warped through masturbating over unreal things. I actually at one stage, whilst I was still drawing, thought that I should make a conscious effort to watch real porn as it was more realistic :p not realising how warped and still fiction real porn is. I don't know if it is worse to create your own fantasies or watch other peoples for damaging yourself. But at any rate I'm glad I'm putting some distance between the damage and myself now. So six language lessons done, 75 to go ;)
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 31, 2016, 12:12:27 PM
Wasn't going to post today, but then thought better of it. The reboot is going well, but now my mind is occupied with the rest of my life. Had some mild psychosis last night. Redid my dating website profile, and that was the trigger. I can't seem to write normal things. What are normal things? The problem is I want to control the outcome, I want to make someone go out with me. Much of my psychosis is about this, how do girls and boys go out? I see hidden meanings in conversations and what I write, trying to see what it is that has to be said for sexual contact to be initiated. On the bus journey to my new flat, I observed such hidden meanings in girls conversations and body language, and related it to me, classic psychosis. I'm ok now though. The strange thing is getting a girlfriend isn't a priority for me at the moment. But years of making and looking at porn has warped my ability to deal normally with even the hint of sexuality in a conversation. The years of keeping my only sexual activity (masturbation over porn) secret and thinking of it as something to be ashamed of means that I cannot respond naturally to even the subtlest of sexual dynamics. A girl looking at me because she is mildly attracted to me fills me with anxiety. I have what is known as "incel" (involuntary celibacy) or "love-shyness".
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 02, 2016, 02:51:17 AM
Day 23 - a sixteenth of the way through a year. Had a dream in which I looked at porn. Woke up with a strong desire to google the images. Luckily I caught myself. But it shows that I still have the unconscious behaviour embedded within me. This is why I need to talk about my incel and sexual responses. I need to set up new stronger pathways that channel sexual desires correctly. Going to therapy tomorrow. It is the first time in six months and is just a review to see if we are going to continue. In the past I haven't really talked much about porn, my therapist didn't really see or understand the problem. Going to try and bring it up tomorrow but I don't know if this therapist will be much help. Want to start t'ai ji classes once a week. And I'm still doing my language lessons, eight so far, 73 to go.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 02, 2016, 08:17:26 AM
Met up with a lady friend of mine today. Got home and was browsing the internet and saw a provocative advert for lipstick. I suddenly had the urge to PMO. Think it was a combination of the dream I had planting the seed and meeting my friend where there is some sexual tension. I haven't succumbed yet, but I feel uncomfortable. This is the real challenge. When I have no urges it is easy. Learning to ride through feeling uncomfortable is something I need to do. My first thought was to write on here, which is good, because in the past I never had the support of this forum. I'm hoping I'll get through the day, and the uncomfortable feeling will go by tomorrow.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 03, 2016, 01:57:58 PM
Well my reboot is going strong. I'm trying to be positive although to be honest I'm feeling quite low. I'm going to start posting about my recovery from psychosis as well. I don't know if that's appropriate, but since porn is the root of my psychosis it is related. Of course the drugs I took as a teenager didn't help either ;) But the extreme paranoia I get is a result of the years of secrecy and shame regarding porn. I currently don't work and spend the day drinking cups of coffee in cafes, watching the world go by, and browsing the internet. Reading other people's posts about mindlessly browsing the internet being a problem has got me thinking that I have this problem too. Indeed at my new place I don't have the internet and I've definitely noticed the difference. It is better, but the time goes sloooow. I want to start doing more productive things with my time. I have the offer of a few hours a week work coming up and that is good. I am doing my language lessons every day (ten days in a row so far) and I'm starting t'ai ji classes once a week on Monday. But with so much time I could be doing so much more. I don't want to push it though. In the past I've started doing too many things in a day and I've burnt out after about a week, then I've relapsed PMO. It is always when I'm feeling low that I start thinking about doing more things. My psychiatrist wants to put me on mood stabilizers but I'm resisting. We'll see...
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 04, 2016, 08:16:21 AM
It's quarter past two in the afternoon where I am. Still haven't done my language lesson for the day. Feeling de-motivated. Years of failing to stop looking at porn and years of psychosis brought about by looking at porn have stripped me of all ambition.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 05, 2016, 06:58:44 AM
So forced myself to do my language lesson yesterday eventually and did one today as well taking me to twelve lessons in a row. There's so much I could be doing really instead of wasting time smoking, drinking coffee and surfing the web. But as I said, every time I've tried to fill up my days with activities I've burned out after a week or so and then relapsed PMO. Starting t'ai ji classes tomorrow. I've done them before as well but never managed to stick at it. This time I hope to do them for a whole year. I really think it is a good thing to count the positive things one is doing rather than the days without porn. Counting days without porn reinforces the idea that you are making a sacrifice. It is good at the beginning, but I really want to stop counting, just make sure I stay in touch on this forum.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 06, 2016, 12:27:07 PM
So reboot going fine. Did my language lesson today. But I failed to go to my t'ai ji class. Doing nothing sucks, but I can't seem to motivate myself to do anything even when I put my mind to it. Apathy is one of the negative symptoms of schizophrenia. I got into this situation because of porn, or at least because of my relationship with porn, and for a while stopping looking became the sole purpose of my life. This is one of the reasons I kept failing. Because once I'd stopped, that purpose was gone, and I had nothing left in my life. I don't know why I want to do t'ai ji. I think it's good for me, it's a good thing to do, but it doesn't motivate me as a purpose. The language lessons are not much better but at least they're only fifteen minutes and I don't have to go anywhere to do them. Between apathy and trying not to have a psychotic relapse I'm completely stuck. At least my reboot is going well :)
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 06, 2016, 03:12:22 PM
I don't know if dating sites are a trigger for some people, if so, you don't need to read anymore. I've never had any success with them, but having only once had a relationship at the age of thirty three, I keep trying. The problem is my porn use has completely confused my sexual reactions. I can't tell the difference between just wanting sex and wanting a relationship. Finding someone to get into a relationship with me is hard because of my schizophrenia, another way that porn has damaged me, but it is even harder because of my confused sexual reactions. I suggested to my therapist that I needed coaching in dating, and he thought that was true, but he was worried that any dating coach I found would not be able to deal with the schizophrenic side of me as well. The dating site I'm on is definitely for people seeking relationships rather than one night stands, at least in my experience. I find that if I like a girl and think she is interested in me sexually I have a psychotic relapse, such is my paranoia about sexual behaviour. Luckily, I'm not dangerous when I relapse, just impossible to understand. I've had quite a few dates with girls I'm not interested in and they have been fine. Hopefully if I can go a year without porn I will be much better. If I can go a year without psychosis that would be best.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: TheNewMe on June 06, 2016, 03:16:46 PM
Hi brother,

Maybe you should take some time to just focus on your recovery? Being single when you try to recovery from a porn addiction can be a blessing in disguise. You can devote all your time and energy into your recovery and really find out who you are without porn. Also, a lot of people, myself included, seems to gain confidence around women as soon as they get their addiction under control, along with a number of other really positive effects. All I'm saying is, don't rush into anything.

Just a thought :)
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: akpal2 on June 06, 2016, 03:21:57 PM
I agree with thenewme, being single right now just focus hard mode in order to heal yourself from porn addiction. Look for a partner a few months down the line. It will be much more fulfilling

http://www.rebootnation.org/forum/index.php?topic=1256.0
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: TiramiSu on June 06, 2016, 03:50:51 PM
Hi there: "I can't tell the difference between just wanting sex and wanting a relationship."
Well I can assure you a lot of men cannot tell the difference. It should belong together. That is natural. Do not worry so much. Stay strong.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on June 06, 2016, 04:09:11 PM
I don't think a relationship would be a bad thing for you, Georgos. If we had to wait until we were fixed, or ready, we might never do anything again! But, I think your concerns are valid. Being schizophrenic is not a small thing - but some people can cope with it. And you must ensure that you have it under good control and that you aren't a danger to anybody else. If you think you are stable enough not to hurt somebody, I think it would be ok for you to do some dating. But I think you should be upfront about your condition in your dating profile. Sure, it will reduce the interest people have in your profile dramatically - most people don't understand schizophrenia. But you don't want those people anyway. You want somebody who understands you, so if somebody gives you a chance and knows about your condition, you know it has potential. Only you can judge whether your P use is bad enough that you should be staying away from women. But it sounds to me like it might be a good step for you. I get the feeling from you that it's about more than just sex. I think you do want a companion. I hope you can feel that happiness.

Regards,
M.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 07, 2016, 10:00:46 AM
Thank you guys for all your advice. I'm on day 28 today so four weeks. I don't actively use the dating site, I very rarely search or initiate contacts, instead I wait for someone to contact me and then respond. I do however periodically update my profile which pushes me to the front of the queue again. I recently did that and now I'm talking to a girl online and it's ok. No psychosis, probably because I don't think we're a good match, although she is very pretty. We'll probably go for coffee and that'll be it. I kind of think that akpal2 and thenewme have the best idea of giving it a rest until I'm well and truly established in my reboot, maybe six months. I always react the same way to a little progress by trying to do more and more until I burn out. So, for example, after a couple of weeks of the reboot I updated my dating profile. Best to solidify any progress first before building on it. I want to stress that I'm not dangerous when I am psychotic. It's a common misconception that schizophrenics are likely to be dangerous. In fact they are more likely to come to harm than other groups of people. Having said that, the last thing a girl wants to deal with on a date is someone suffering from paranoid schizophrenia. I am up front about it. I have put my condition on my profile in the past, and still got interest, but I got tired of the conversation in dates always going the same way, so I took it down. I don't try and hide it though, and tell everyone when it's appropriate. It's a difficult one, if I put it up then in a way it comes to define me, and I want to be more than my condition. Still as I said, I think the best thing is to give the dating a rest for the time being. 28 days is quite good. Over the last few years, usually when I do good I do about a month, sometimes, though less often, two, so I haven't really proved anything yet. However, this time feels really good because I'm actively talking about it to a non-judgemental community, rather than it just being something I'm doing on my own and a secret. This forum really is a godsend. Thanks again guys, and good luck everyone. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on June 07, 2016, 07:57:09 PM
Hi Georgos, just to be clear, I didn't mean to imply that you were a violent danger to anyone. I meant danger in the sense of upsetting somebody - which can certainly happen. My grandmother and a couple of friends of mine have schizophrenia, so I'm very familiar with it. It's not who you are, I realise that. It's something you have to manage in your life. I have to manage diabetes. Most of us have something.

Anyway, I just wanted to encourage you to not wait forever to find a nice girl. But of course only you can judge when you are ready.

Best regards,
M.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 08, 2016, 04:59:59 AM
Thank you malando, yes you're right, upsetting people is a problem when I'm ill and upsetting girls is not nice! I've been pretty sane for the last month which is good, just have to try and keep it up. The reboot is going fine, but one bad thing I've noticed is I've started ogling every attractive girl that passes me. This doesn't give me any urges to PMO but it is a kind of P substitute, besides being a bit rude, and it's got to stop. Actually, in the past, when I've tried to reboot, I haven't noticed this behaviour to the same degree. I think this time it's because I'm so focused on this forum to remind me why I want to stop, and so the subject is in my mind much more. Being focused on the forum gives me a kind of purpose, and one I can share, so it is good, but ideally I'd like not to have any thoughts related to P, just put the whole business in my past and leave it behind. However, it's still far too early for that. I think I need at least a year. Am still doing my language lessons, fifteen so far, with sixty-six to go.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 08, 2016, 03:17:27 PM
So, having replied to the girl on the dating site trying to put her off, she replied that it could be nice to go for coffee. So I wrote back, again thinking that I'd put her off. Now I caught myself with the beginnings of obsessing about whether she will reply or not. I just read Willliam's thread that Akpal2 mentioned. I understand fully the difference between knowing you are an addict and wanting to control your porn use and knowing that you must never use it again, finito. I fully want porn out of my life for good. However, the reason I keep talking about transcending the addiction is because I view it as a faulty set of pathways, not just an overused set. According to the website www.sexualreboot.com that I mentioned, 46% of guys on this forum are virgins. Most of the guys I've encountered so far seem to have wives or girlfriends, which doesn't tally, but then, again according to www.sexualreboot.com, most of the guys on the forum also fall into the 20-29 year old category. The fact that 46% of the forumers are virgins tells me that porn literally wires guys up the wrong way for sex, and this is something that I need to deal with as well. Of course it could be that these guys, and me, are already wired up the wrong way for sex and that's why they have a problem with porn, I don't know. At any rate, incel is something that I have to deal with and I'd love to get feedback from anyone else who has a similar problem with getting a girlfriend. With regards to the girl on the dating site, I take rejection as a sign that I've done something wrong, and my biggest fear is doing something wrong. This fear comes from the porn use which I view as "wrong" sexual behaviour. This fear leads me to become obsessive and ultimately psychotic. I think the akpal2 and thenewme are right that I should give the dating a rest until at least six months down the line, however I also think that my recovery needs more than just stopping but actually building new positive pathways that can help me have a healthy sexual relationship with someone. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 09, 2016, 11:01:48 AM
Reboot is going fine. I really want to start to deal with my healing and recovery as well, particularly with regards to getting a girlfriend. As others have said, it's perhaps too early to actually try to find a girlfriend, but I want to start to address the issues that I have regarding this. Porn being my only sexual activity for most of my life by and large means that I've built up pathways that say if you want sexual release you can have it instantaneously. As a result, I don't know how to flirt, and I have no idea how flirting moves towards sexual intercourse. With porn you just have to click to get a sexual response. Further it is impersonal and unambiguous. Nor is there any pressure to give anything or to know what to give. I am terrified of saying the wrong thing in flirting. I'd much rather a girl just said "let's have sex", but that only happens in porn. As a result of my fear, I end up trying to keep the conversation as asexual as possible. I have no idea how to go about learning to flirt. I'm scared I will be judged as a pervert. The truth is when I go on dates or chat to girls on the dating website, I end up sabotaging everything out of this fear, often making it much worse than if I simply was up front about my sexual desires. In trying to avoid being sexual I end up being creepy. I am not comfortable with my sexual desires. They are not weird, I'm not into anything kinky, but the pathways in my brain associate sexual desires with looking at porn. Essentially, as I said, I want the girl to ask me to have sex, which is what happened the only two times I actually had sex. I don't want to risk anything myself in exposing myself to rejection or my real fear, being called a pervert. Indeed rejection is not a problem, it's the fear of judgement that's the problem. Anyway, as I said, I have no idea how to go about turning this around, any advice is welcome. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 10, 2016, 12:26:19 PM
So I've done a month and I'm not sure how to proceed. I'm kind of bored of the process. No urges. But there's more to life than porn and going over and over talking about it has lost its initial feeling of positivity. I could stop posting for a bit, but I'm worried that if I do that I won't be prepared if an urge strikes. Staying connected to the forum seems important to me as I've managed the odd month many times before but never succeeded in finally leaving porn in my past. The problem is partly psychological. The question that I ask myself is, when am I cured? When is this process complete? This is completely the wrong question to ask. The process was finished the second I chose not to look at porn ever again. So why am I still here?
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on June 10, 2016, 06:55:23 PM
So I've done a month and I'm not sure how to proceed. I'm kind of bored of the process. No urges. But there's more to life than porn and going over and over talking about it has lost its initial feeling of positivity. I could stop posting for a bit, but I'm worried that if I do that I won't be prepared if an urge strikes. Staying connected to the forum seems important to me as I've managed the odd month many times before but never succeeded in finally leaving porn in my past. The problem is partly psychological. The question that I ask myself is, when am I cured? When is this process complete? This is completely the wrong question to ask. The process was finished the second I chose not to look at porn ever again. So why am I still here?
You're here because you aren't convinced that you are cured. And you'd be right. Everything I've learned about the subject says it takes a lot longer than a month to be cured. But you're right - there has to be more to your life than quitting porn. You need to get out and do things that are fulfilling to you. Enrich your life if it feels empty. Pursue your hobbies, find new interests. Work for a charity. Help some people. Exercise more, take up a sport.

You don't need to hang out here for 12 hours a day to quit porn. You need to just stay away from porn and focus on the improving the rest of your life.

But stop in regularly. It is important.

Best, M.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: TiramiSu on June 10, 2016, 11:16:39 PM
Congratulations on your process. This sounds very good.

there is of course less novelty staying on this forum. I stay here to really commit myself. Before I always relapsed, now I want to win the fight forever against this beast.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 11, 2016, 12:17:36 PM
Thanks guys, the thing I think we all struggle with is there really is no way to prove you're cured, only a way to prove you're not, by relapsing. Life is better without porn, but better is relative and after a while we forget what is was like while we were using and become dissatisfied with what we have, at least that's my experience. Learning not to be dissatisfied with life is a journey in itself. I had some mild psychosis just now. I had just replied to a girl who wanted to know more about my mental illness. I tried to be as honest as I could whilst not sounding alarmist. Afterwards, at a café I caught the conversation of two girls. They were talking about an "awkward situation", about a boy one of the girls knew, how she didn't want to meet him and "something kick off", how he "seemed really nice", but there was this "awkward situation", how she "didn't want to appear rude". I, of course, in my condition, related all of this to my recent reply as if I was getting feedback from the universe of what was happening. It stems from anxiety and is a form of paranoia that weed smokers can perhaps relate to. I can't quite remember the full conversation and didn't catch all of it anyway. Indeed some of it clearly didn't relate to my situation, but my mental filter focused on those bits that "coincidentally" fuelled my paranoia. At some stages the girl was edging towards meeting this guy and at others she was edging away. I became terrified to leave when she was edging away, but finally got up after finishing my coffee and went home. On the way back I thought about the need for stillness in such situations, to not dwell on the "feedback" I was getting, and wondered to myself why I thought it was related to me anyway. These synchronicities are very common in my life, where what I'm thinking about internally manifests itself in the external. Yet it is all open to interpretation I guess. I resolved on the way home that I needed to put my psychosis behind me and not to think about the overheard conversation or the girl I'd written to anymore. Feeling ok now. Reboot still going strong. I know I said it is probably too early to start trying to date, but as Malando pointed out, a relationship would be good for me and it would be silly to miss a genuine opportunity out of fear. I'm hoping I can stay sane with the aid of this forum as well, though that might be too much to ask. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 12, 2016, 01:47:09 PM
So wasn't going to post today, but reading happysad's journal made me think and I thought I'd jot down my thoughts. I am constantly looking for validation of my life. I'd read before that the best way to attract girls was to give them the impression you're not interested. But in my experience that never worked either. Now I realise, it's not about giving the impression that you're not interested in sex but rather that you don't need validation of any kind. For example, when I talk about the ideas I'm interested in, I present them in a way that seeks validation. These ideas can be as interesting as anything, but because I seek validation for having them, it's a turn off. I don't just seek validation from girls, I seek validation from everyone. It's my whole way of being. I think I developed this personality trait before I discovered porn, but the years of porn use and failing in my attempts to control it only made it worse. In a way, even me posting this is me seeking validation, but then that's what this forum is for I guess. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 13, 2016, 02:11:09 PM
Found an interesting article on validation which I thought I'd share for anyone whose interested: http://postmasculine.com/validation/comment-page-1

Still doing my language lessons (20 so far, 61 to go), but I had a wave of anxiety before my t'ai ji class today so didn't go again, that's what led me to search for information about validation.

Reboot continues :)
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 15, 2016, 05:44:37 AM
Day 36. Rebooting must deal with the whole person if it is to succeed. There are several issues that I need to address in my reboot. The first of course is putting my porn use behind me. However a second issue is filling my time with constructive things to do and beating apathy. Apathy is a negative symptom of schizophrenia, so really I have to try and recover from schizophrenia as well. That may or may not be possible. The doctors say it is a life long condition. However I believe that it is possible to recover and lead a functional life. I firmly believe that my relationship with porn played a large part in me developing this condition, so moving on from that should help me to deal with schizophrenia as well. As I said moving on means tackling apathy and also tackling all the negative pathways I've built up around sex and relationships. I have a date coming up so I will probably post about that soon. However today I am going to take another step in doing something positive with my life. As you know (though are probably not very interested :) I am doing a fifteen minute language lesson every day. As from today I will also do an additional half an hour on another online language course I've signed up for. It's for the same language, so hopefully, with these two language courses combined, by the end of the year my aim is to become fluent. Good luck everyone with your reboot. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 18, 2016, 11:27:21 AM
Day 39. My date's coming up soon. Every time I'm going to meet someone I like, be it appearance wise or profile, or both, I think, "this is it". Suddenly everything is riding on the first encounter. I know my technique is all wrong, but because everything is riding of the first encounter for me, I'm too scared to try anything different. I'm afraid to experiment, because as I said, "this is it". I don't really know what I'd do differently anyway. I don't have any game plan. I don't know what we're going to talk about. If it goes like all the previous dates I've ever had, it will just be me talking about my ideas and she telling me they're interesting but sound too complicated for her. Then we'll go our separate ways and never see each other again. At least my reboot is going well and I'm doing both my language courses every day. If anyone has got any ideas how I can be more successful on a date without making a complete tool out of myself, I'd love to hear from you. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: TheNewMe on June 18, 2016, 11:49:04 AM
Listen and ask questions? Usually people love talking :)
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: TiramiSu on June 18, 2016, 12:33:26 PM
A successful date:

Invite her out for some adventurous trip. Take her to an exciting new place of the town.
Give her the feeling you really listen to her.
Complement her on her looks.
Flirt with her.
Women want to have the feeling somebody is really listening to them.
If she likes dancing, go dancing.
Be funny without making a fool of yourself.
Sometimes just observe her.
Give her some smiles.  Smiling at somebody cannot do harm.
Do not talk about problems.
Find out what she likes.
Show a genuine interest in her.
Make her feel comfortable.
 
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 19, 2016, 12:56:08 PM
So date was cancelled through no fault of my own. Trying not to get all worked up. I can actually physically feel the onset of psychosis. It begins with anxiety. A physical sensation of a sort of coldness that runs through the back of my brain. Writing about it helps. Went to have coffee to relax. Was picking up loads of "feedback" from the people around me. However, I discovered something about this, last time I thought I was picking up "feedback" the girl hadn't even read her message yet which proves however seemingly related to my situation the "feedback" is, it isn't a real connection. Realising this helped a lot. I'm really making an effort to stay sane at the moment. Hopefully, if I succeed in my reboot, my psychosis will lessen as well. Anxiety is really hard to deal with, to some extent I can observe it, the physical sensations, but along with them come a tendency to think fast and react. This is where mindfulness helps. Just as with withdrawal symptoms, being able to sit back and observe anxiety in the brain is really important in recovery. I can still feel the physical sensations even now. Obviously some neuro-transmitters have been released. Perhaps I'll try and sleep for a bit to let them pass. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 20, 2016, 02:54:18 PM
Finally went to a t'ai ji class. Will have to try to go once a week from now on. Managing to do lessons from both language courses every day. Managing to stay relatively sane, which is important. No dates for the moment, but I'm not really bothered. It will be six weeks of reboot as of tomorrow which is equal to my second best attempt last year. My best attempt last year was about ten weeks, although that time I'd stopped counting. My best ever is five months. However, all of this record keeping is really the wrong attitude, showing what a chronic relapser I was. This time it is over. I'm never going back. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 25, 2016, 09:59:54 AM
Day 46. Nothing much to report. Reboot going fine. Have a few problems with ogling from time to time still, but it doesn't trigger any desire to relapse. I'm not sure how the whole ogling thing fits into my difficulties with getting a girlfriend psychologically wise, it's probably not good, and of course it's disrespectful, but having had a lot of fear and shame associated with looking at real women at all, a bit of it feels empowering. Writing this now, I recognise that this sort of logic is the twisted reactions of a porn addict, and I'm sure totally unattractive behaviour, but I'm still quite confused as to how to relate to real women. Part of me thinks there's nothing wrong with validating a woman physically, as long as there's no expectation on your part and no reduction of the person to their physicality alone, which of course is not he same as ogling. Striking the right attitude here is difficult for me. I'm still doing my language lessons every day, and in the coming days I'm going to try and make a tiny effort to deal with another addiction I have, namely smoking. I've never gone more than eight hours without a cigarette since I started some fifteen years ago.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 26, 2016, 08:49:33 AM
Dreamed I was masturbating last night, but so far no urges today. Had some intense dreams just before I woke up and so immediately felt I needed a cigarette to cope. I first started smoking because of anxiety about people finding out about my porn use some fifteen years ago. Stopping smoking is a challenge I'm not sure I'm ready to face. Unlike porn, I have no shame about smoking, indeed I still think it's kind of cool. I do however have a smoker's cough and that reminds me every now and then that it's damaging me, but so far this hasn't translated into a strong enough feeling to quit. I think I should quit, but it is an intellectual should, not an emotional one. Given that this morning I couldn't even bring myself to resist smoking immediately upon waking up, even though the night before I'd prayed that I wouldn't smoke first thing in the morning, I don't know whether I can ever be successful at the moment. Things are going well with my reboot, and I'm thankful for that. I don't want to rush and try and change everything at once.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: davenl on June 26, 2016, 11:57:28 AM
Dreamed I was masturbating last night, but so far no urges today. Had some intense dreams just before I woke up and so immediately felt I needed a cigarette to cope. I first started smoking because of anxiety about people finding out about my porn use some fifteen years ago. Stopping smoking is a challenge I'm not sure I'm ready to face. Unlike porn, I have no shame about smoking, indeed I still think it's kind of cool. I do however have a smoker's cough and that reminds me every now and then that it's damaging me, but so far this hasn't translated into a strong enough feeling to quit. I think I should quit, but it is an intellectual should, not an emotional one. Given that this morning I couldn't even bring myself to resist smoking immediately upon waking up, even though the night before I'd prayed that I wouldn't smoke first thing in the morning, I don't know whether I can ever be successful at the moment. Things are going well with my reboot, and I'm thankful for that. I don't want to rush and try and change everything at once.

Hi Georgos,

I am not sure how long you are in your reboot, but for me the 'natural' need to stop smoking came when I was about 3,5 months in my current hardmode reboot. It was when I had strong withdrawl symptoms (I still do), but it became more easy to cope with them. For some reason the smoking started to irritate and bore me and after about 2 weeks I just quite. The discipline I gained during the first months of the reboot made it easy to go through the difficult moments, although I have to say that I still have, after two monts, some intense urges to smoke once in a while.

If you feel like if you'd been pushing it if you stop now, I would suggest to give it some more time. It might come more naturally, as it did with me. Besides that, I would focus on quiting porn for now. That's REALLY the addiction to beat.

All the best
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 26, 2016, 12:05:54 PM
Thank you for the advice davnel :) I'm really hoping there will come a natural time to stop smoking for me as well. I'm on day 47 of my reboot so far. I've had next to no urges to look at porn throughout the reboot. I think that's because I'd already made a huge effort and been moderately successful (albeit as a chronic relapser) before I found this forum and that the forum provided the final push for me to quit for good. I'm not getting complacent though, I intend to keep this journal for the full year to remind me to stay focused on my goal. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 27, 2016, 02:29:26 PM
Day 48. Tomorrow will be seven weeks P and M free. I've also been relatively sane for most of this time which is good. Went to my t'ai ji class today which is also good and hopefully will be able to go every week now. Still doing my language lessons as well. All in all, I'm happy.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: pinkerton on June 29, 2016, 02:39:26 PM
You've mentioned some interesting things in your journal.  Your awareness of the dilemma of "when am i cured" is a point i really relate to. Many AA members continue to go to AA meetings for the rest of their lives. Not only does it help us to stay sober but also to get better at living sober. It also allows us to share "experience, strength, and hope" with those who other alcoholics who need help and thus completes a circle. 
 I had always planned on leaving this forum when i no longer needed it. But maybe i've been thinking about that wrong.
 Congrats on your progress. You're doing great.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on July 01, 2016, 07:02:27 AM
Thank you pinkerton, I think the problem in the past was that after going five months some years ago, I'd proved to myself that I could control the addiction. The thing is I still went back to PMO. There are many reasons for this. One is the difference between struggling to "control" something and simply making the choice to leave something behind. Reading the journals on this forum has been like a mirror to me and I can see the behaviour that I've had all these years and recognise that that's not who I want to be. Another reason was that this struggle was very personal for me. Nobody knew that I PMOd and so nobody knew when I stopped. Again this forum has really made the difference because now it is not so much a secret thing that is eating me up. Finally, and this is what I'm still not finished with, I think I didn't pay enough attention to the underlying problems that led me to PMO. I simply wanted to stop, without addressing the other things I needed to change in my life. For example, if you find you PMO because of boredom, then you need to address boredom as well as cutting out PMO, if it's because of self-image, again you need to address that. I think with you pinkerton, you're still at the stage of trying to control your addiction, rather than coming to terms with the idea that you don't need it in your life. You may not want it in your life, but until you address the reasons why you do it, you may still need it, just as an alcoholic can become dependent on alcohol, to the extent that if they stop it suddenly they could even die without it. I'm not suggesting PMO is as bad as that, but not wanting it is not the same as not needing it. Hope that's not too critical, and thank you again for writing on my journal, all feedback helps. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on July 02, 2016, 02:45:24 PM
Day 53. The last few days I've been becoming increasingly philosophical and felt my brain opening up towards psychosis. Thinking about life and death, feeling dissatisfied but without motivation to do anything productive. I've managed to keep doing my language lessons, I have 42 left of the first course, and this has been a small victory. However in the time in between I've been seriously losing the plot. I've found myself watching videos of Shaolin monks and comparing myself to them, which is stupid. Going to the extremes is always a sign that my mental health is deteriorating. Just because I'm learning a little t'ai ji, I start looking at the most extreme practitioners, then knowing that I will never be of that standard, I start questioning why I am doing it at all. Why am I doing anything, when I will die someday and it will all be gone. Another extreme. As I said, this extremist thinking is a sure sign that another psychotic relapse is on the way. I'm determined to try and stay sane this time. At the back of my mind I am wondering if this is not all because I am in contact with another girl on the dating website I am on. I haven't been thinking about it, indeed I'm not even really interested in her, but the opening up of my brain started after I first made contact. There could be other reasons as well, but dating girls has always been a trigger for my psychosis. Thinking now, I am realising that I should just relax. It is not necessary to focus on self improvement if it makes me psychotic. I'm doing my language lessons. I'm doing my reboot. That is enough.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on July 03, 2016, 06:12:14 AM
Day 54. Feeling better today so far. Mind not drifting to unanswerable questions about life and death and what's the point :) This journal's really helpful, not only for keeping me off porn, but for catching the beginnings of psychosis before they can develop into something serious as well. Look forward to reading all the progress in your journals. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on July 05, 2016, 08:55:06 AM
So eight weeks in to my reboot today. Feeling lazy. Haven't done my language lessons yet. Went to my t'ai ji class yesterday, trying to practice the moves a bit every day. Got to stay motivated. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on July 08, 2016, 08:02:42 AM
Coming up to two months now in a couple of days. It has gone so well so far that I'm really pleased. However I did have a bit of a scare yesterday. Was looking at some news articles on the web and there were several provocative adverts. I found myself drawn to the adverts more than the news I was reading. It felt like a return to the old behaviour, the focus on scanning through web pages for the perfect image, etc. Though I came across the images unintentionally, and they certainly weren't porn, just provocative, I did start to commit intentionally to viewing them. That commitment was accompanied by a change in my brain that I could feel. As soon as I felt it I turned the computer off. But it was scary that those pathways were still there. I know everyone here knows how it feels, like something has got a hold of you and is drawing you in. Afterwards I felt bad. I don't know if that is chemical too, or merely psychological. Of course chemical reactions and psychological reactions are intertwined, so there isn't really a distinction, just a different emphasis on how to one treats them. At any rate, I should really be pleased with how I handled the situation, but I really don't like the fact that my brain still reacts in such a way. Healing takes time, fifty nine days is nothing compared to the almost thirty years of the old behaviour. Onward.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: pinkerton on July 08, 2016, 08:20:17 AM
Great job shutting the computer off :)
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on July 09, 2016, 02:28:47 PM
Thank you pinkerton. Day 60 today. I am managing to do my two language courses and ten minutes of t'ai ji every day, however I really need to do them at a set time each day in order to have structure. I notice that when I manage this I feel a lot better than days that I just let the time slip and have the tasks hanging over me all day. I think I'm going to record the days that I stick to the structured time I've set myself and those that I don't, which hopefully won't be that often. I've also decided to keep an (offline) gratitude journal once a week on Saturday. All of this may seem off topic but it is part of the recovery and there is a serious point in not obsessing over the subject of porn. I would encourage others to talk about the positive things they're doing in their life as a counterpoint to the porn related problems. Don't worry if you think nobody else will be interested :) the journals are primarily for ourselves and it helps with the counting and recovery to focus on the positive things you do each day. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on July 10, 2016, 12:35:51 PM
So two months in with only minor urges occasionally, I really think this time I've stopped looking at P for good. I'm not getting complacent though. The end of a month is always a time when the old addiction can strike again because it feels like I've completed something. This is not about completing a set amount of days. This is it. It is over. Managed to stick to my allotted times for doing my language courses and t'ai ji today. Slowly I'm going to add some more activities into the day. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: pinkerton on July 11, 2016, 07:14:31 AM
Congrats on two months. And thanks for the reminder on gratitude. I have been leaving that out.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on July 14, 2016, 12:01:12 PM
Thank you again pinkerton, it's good to know someone is reading my journal :) I'm on day 65 now. Been getting up late and that's been messing with my scheduling of activities. Also been rushing ahead a bit in my mind which usually has the effect of demotivating me. Slow steady progress is the way forward, but I always want things immediately without any effort. I read someone else's journal commenting that one should be wary of blaming everything on porn, but I do think the years of instant gratification have trained me to either expect something immediately without effort or give up. I'm smoking less which is good but still not ready to quit. One step at a time. Onward.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on July 16, 2016, 02:18:37 PM
Day 67. Don't know if this is what is called "brain fog", I've just felt totally disengaged today. Only done one of my language lessons so far and no t'ai ji and in a couple of hours it will be time for bed :( I'll get it done, but this is really no good, should be doing everything by midday, especially as I want to add some more activities into the day. I've thought about M briefly a few times over the last couple of days, but not really about P. No real urges though, just passing thoughts. Overall I'm happy with how I'm doing. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on July 22, 2016, 03:37:17 PM
Coming to the end of day 73. A couple of days ago I had some psychotic symptoms again, and today I am also feeling vulnerable. My therapist thinks that I turn to psychosis when my real life becomes boring, not consciously, but unconsciously as a form of escape. Certainly the "brain fog" I mentioned in my last post continued, and I just felt more and more fatigued with the whole reboot process, no desire to return to porn, but I lost my focus on seeing each day as a victory. I let my routine slip. I still managed to do everything that I wanted to do in the day, but I was leaving it all to the last minute just before I went to bed. Today I still have to do my second language lesson and t'ai ji practice and I only have an hour left before I go to sleep. I have been doing so well. Almost two and a half months of sanity, no porn, and doing something productive every day, however little. I really don't want to go crazy again. One good thing is that I have stopped smoking first thing in the morning, so I'm still making progress. Let's hope these symptoms don't develop into a full relapse.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: pinkerton on July 25, 2016, 09:13:57 AM
Hey georgos, hope you're still going strong. I tend to act out in all kinds of ways when real life gets too boring. Or, i used to. I'm a lot better now. Best to find healthy excitement whenever we can.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on July 26, 2016, 07:47:27 AM
Thank you for the concern pinkerton, my reboot is still going strong. The good news is that my psychosis has not re-surfaced. However I have been having bouts of existential crisis, thinking that there is no meaning in my life and that the things that used to mean something to me no longer do. Today has been better. It is day 77 so 11 weeks and over half my record. I wish you all the best too. You can do it! Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on July 27, 2016, 01:46:59 PM
Day 78. I'm doing everything I set out to do, I should be feeling great, but I don't. How you deal with lows is important, the good thing is I'm not even thinking of turning to porn. Slowly, slowly, I'll get there. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on July 27, 2016, 05:58:09 PM
Nice job, Georgos - especially with your low mood at the moment. Stay strong and listen to any ideas your brain is giving you about what is missing in your life. Then follow the path to getting that into your life. Life is about finding more satisfaction, happiness and contentment - not just quitting P. I hope you are looking at ways to increase these things? You probably are - I don't mean to treat you like an idiot. Just a friendly reminder and encouragement to keep seeking what will make you happier and more complete. Best of luck, M.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on July 29, 2016, 08:13:24 AM
Thank you malando for your kind words. I realise now after googling the term, that I am experiencing what is known as flatline. It's been going on for a couple of weeks now. Not that bothered about the sexual aspects, although last night I found I could barely engage with a girl who was interested in me, it's more the emotional aspects. Indeed that was the real problem. I had no interest and felt emotionally drained. In fact that's pretty much how I've been feeling these last couple of weeks as a whole. I just don't have any enthusiasm for anything. Don't know what to do about this really. I'm happy with my reboot, it seems like I've really turned the page on my old addiction. In the past, as a chronic relapser, I would relapse, get the shot of dopamine, and then find new determination to better myself and engage with life, of course I never did because I would fail, relapse again and then start again from square one. As you say, life is not just quitting P, but that was my life for so many years. I want to introduce new activities into my life, but none of them give me the shots of dopamine that P gave. I guess that's what I'm really lacking. But it is strange because I'm not actively pursuing sex either, the whole thought of engaging intimately with someone fills me with exhaustion. As I said in a previous post, P creates pathways of instant gratification, instant dopamine hits, real relationships require work, and I totally lack the skills for engaging with them, at least sexually. I have a second date coming up. I didn't think the first one went well, but she seems happy to see me again. She seems to actually want a nice guy, who's polite and listens, most girls do really, but I'm still worried about providing excitement. With such low energy at the moment, excitement is not something I can provide. I'll be happy if she just stays interested in me. Once you realise that a large part of sex is just release of dopamine it looses it's attraction. I think the real reason for this with us addicts is that we've worn out our dopamine pathways through over use. There's nothing wrong with dopamine in a balanced healthy life. Indeed it has beneficial effects. The problem is how we have programmed ourselves to get it and abused the delivery system. So anyway, I've hit day 80. I know I'm never going back. Just have to work out how to go forward that's all. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on August 01, 2016, 05:51:37 AM
Day 83. Been feeling better the last couple of days. I've added in five minutes Zhan Zhuang (standing stake meditation) to my routine in the morning and that seems to be going well. I've almost finished the first of my language courses, twelve days to go, and I'm still doing the other language course which I should finish in a couple of months. Doing T'ai Ji every day for ten minutes as well. Finally I'm trying to get my smoking under control (note the classic mistake of trying to control an addiction, I'm clearly not ready to give it up). My aim is to not smoke before 12:00pm every day. I managed it yesterday, but totally failed today. The trigger is usually a disturbing dream just before I wake up. Anyway, this journal is primarily about addiction to P, and that is totally over for me. I am so grateful to this site for providing me with the final push to say goodbye to P forever. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on August 01, 2016, 11:36:21 AM
Ok so maybe I got a bit too cocky... just been hit by an urge to relapse. I was sitting outside my favourite coffee shop watching the world go by when I suddenly thought "I could do it again", then the old feelings returned. I'm trying to just observe the feeling in a mindful sort of way and wait for it to pass. Observing is actually much more difficult then most people think, the trick is to observe without judgement as any sort of thought about the feeling, good or bad, makes it stronger. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on August 02, 2016, 07:01:14 AM
So I didn't relapse, although it was pretty scary, but after writing here the urge simply went away. So I'm still on target, 84 days so far. Totally failed to not smoke before 12:00pm this morning, in fact smoked as soon as I woke up due to disturbing dreams again. I don't really want to post when I fail at something, it creates a cycle of attention seeking that reinforces the failure, and I want to stay positive. However it is good to be honest, with others as well as oneself. I'm not sure which is harder to quit, P or smoking. I seem to have quit P now, though yesterday's urge is a strong reminder that I shouldn't get complacent. For years I've been pretty much engaged in controlling my P addiction, it always felt like failure, because I would always go back to it, and it was a constant effort, but in reality, I was really controlling it, albeit as a chronic relapser. I've never managed to control my smoking for more than a few hours. So in this sense it seems I find smoking a harder drug to quit. Also, with P, I had so many negative emotions and thoughts about the behaviour that I really felt I'd hit rock bottom and there was no other option other than to quit, though actually quitting took finding this site to manifest itself, at least so far. With cigarettes, I really don't feel that bad about smoking, I'm vaguely aware that I could save money, that I have a smoker's cough, and that it is an artificial dopamine stimulator, but other than that I'm not that bothered. Sometimes I even still think it's cool. Obviously I don't want to hit rock bottom with cigarettes before I quit, that would mean having a stroke or getting cancer or something. I'm going to try and go for a streak of not smoking before 12:00pm every day. In the last month I managed 11 days of not smoking for between half an hour and an hour after waking up. Then after one days failure I managed to get all the way until 12:00pm without a cigarette and thought I could do a streak of that. Perhaps it would be best to revert back to the previous aim and see if I can do a longer streak, longer than 11 days. We'll see what happens tomorrow morning. At any rate I will record it here. Documenting my attempts to quit smoking here probably won't be as successful as documenting quitting P, because it's not what people are here for, but I'm sure everyone is supportive. Perhaps there is a stop smoking forum I could join. I'll google it. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on August 04, 2016, 07:37:04 AM
Day 86. Yesterday I managed not to smoke until 12:00pm so a success! Today I had disturbing dreams again and smoked first thing in the morning. I'm going to join a stop-smoking forum and see if that will help. There are several on the web. I think because of my condition, dreams have a bigger effect on me. They open me up and I usually wake suddenly in the middle of them and am left still open afterwards. I have a period of living in both worlds, the dream world and the waking world, and I feel all sorts of mental sensations. Smoking usually helps to smooth the transition, however, today, even that didn't work, and I just ended up feeling bad, one because of the dream and two because I ruined my attempt not to smoke before 12:00pm again. I'm approaching 90 days no P and no M (Hard Mode), so things are pretty good otherwise. I'm managing to do all the activities I've set out to do every day. I found a forum for Love Shy. I said before I have Incel, but reading that forum I realised I there is a difference between Love Shy and Incel, and I definitely have the former. Other than that the forum was a real let down, just a lot of people wallowing in their problems with no direction. Hopefully the stop-smoking forums will be better. This forum is definitely what I need, everyone is so focused and it really helps to take you in the right direction. Good luck everyone. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on August 07, 2016, 06:55:53 AM
Day 89. Yesterday I had a couple of quite strong urges, one in the morning and one in the afternoon. I found myself thinking about the P I used to look at and my brain started playing the trick of rationalization, saying "one peek won't hurt, it's not that bad, you don't need to be so fundamentalist about everything", but then I thought of going back to day one again for the thousandth time. I resolved to simply observe the thoughts and feelings and let them pass which they did. So I am succeeding! Smoking is another matter. The stop-smoking forums on the web are not really designed for what I have in mind which is maintaining a daily routine of not smoking before 12:00pm. They don't have journals and are all geared for people who actually stop for several days. In my current state of mind, I know that is next to impossible, though I do eventually intend to try it. Anyway, the last few days I've caved completely, smoking first thing, basically binging on the premise that I simply can't stop and it's stupid and tiring to try and control it. As I've said in previous posts, because of my P use over the years, or perhaps my personality to begin with, I've programmed myself to seek instant gratification, and stopping smoking always seems like too much effort for too little reward. I really need to learn to put effort and hard work into achieving things. I expect things to just come to me and don't see the point in doing anything whose effort is unenjoyable in the beginning. Rewards all seem meaningless or unattainable and my life is comfortable enough for me to just coast, that is when I'm not suffering from psychosis. Making this change is going to be hard. In many ways I'm already doing fantastically, almost 90 days no P or M and next to no psychosis, plus doing a few bits of study every day, is a big improvement on how I was living before. My thanks to Gabe for setting up this website, I know I wouldn't have been able to achieve this much without it. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on August 10, 2016, 01:56:16 PM
Well I hit 90 days (today is day 92) and my routine just went to pot. I missed one of my language lessons yesterday, and today I missed almost everything. On top of that I had psychotic symptoms on Monday night, after I went to a bar on my own, and ended up wandering the streets until 3 in the morning. I'm not going to go back to PMO, life is definitely better without it, but I've still got a long way to go to rebuild my shattered life. I want to take a break from my routine of study, I finish the first language course on Saturday, so that seems like a good place to pause, but I'm worried if I go back to doing nothing everyday I'll relapse PMO. The routine definitely helped me focus my mind and energy on something other than P and M, and it felt like I was making progress, but I need a break. Actually, a break in my routine is the last thing I need, but I got to the point where I couldn't envisage going forward, so I'm pulling everything back. Progress is difficult.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: David Albert on August 11, 2016, 06:51:31 AM
Hey, congratulations on your 90 day success  :) It's only the beginning of your process, but you are doing excellent so far. Don't think about relapses, don't think about P stuff, that is all behind you now ! P is a thing of the past for you, it's becoming a distant memory that will fade with time. P is out of your life, it's not an option anymore. Keep yourself busy, keep your mind occupied with projects, lessons, hobbies, whatever you need. Progress is difficult but don't forget each and every day to remind yourself how far you've come and how you can never go back.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on August 12, 2016, 07:38:34 AM
Thank you David Albert :) I've been having psychotic symptoms these last few days. Going out in the evening and going crazy. It's really worrying how quickly the change in me can happen. Didn't really get into trouble, it wasn't as bad as it has been sometimes, but did have some intense and weird conversations with strangers besides all the crazy things going on in my head relating to those around me. I think my therapist is right that I want to escape the normal reality for something more exciting. In a way I kind of sought out the psychosis by deliberately going out at night which I knew would bring it on. My reasoning was I should be able to go out at night on my own and have a good time, but I knew I was vulnerable so should have stayed at home, which I did last night. I realised yesterday that it was no good and made an effort to sleep it off. I'm ok today. Seeing my key worker in half an hour, so everything should get back to normal if I am careful. I need to stay in tonight as well and try and get back to my routine. I didn't do anything yesterday, I was too insane. Today is day 94. Slow steady progress may be boring, but it's better than being in a psychotic state. Thankfully, thoughts of relapsing in P and M are far from my mind. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on August 25, 2016, 09:31:02 AM
I don't want to come on here and tell you that I failed yet again. I managed 107 days. The last few weeks I have been having a psychotic episode. I am back to normal now. But I lost count of my days and I pretty much lost focus on my goal. I feel nothing. The images barely moved me. It was only the return to masturbation that was really there. But I did look at P. And I did PMO. Advice as to what to do would be welcome. I don't have the energy to start counting to a hundred days again...
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on August 25, 2016, 01:51:58 PM
White people fetishize White women. This is the primary reason I want to stop. They then have the gall to reduce Black men to penises. This has to stop also. I remind myself of reality in case anyone thinks I'm simply ignoring the problem.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on August 26, 2016, 05:52:35 AM
I don't know whether to analyse what happened or just carry on as if nothing did. 107 days is up there in my top five best if not top three. The problem was the psychosis which started on day 90. I didn't really have any urges, I think I just did it to get out of my psychosis and back focused on something more concrete. Yesterday, the day I PMOd I went out and the difference in how girls treated me was striking. I'm sure this was largely due to my body language, shame and feelings of failure, even though I was trying my best to be indifferent. In the 107 days I was really making progress sexually, saying hello to girls on the street and getting nice responses etc. I was doing well with a girl I met on an online dating website as well, although I think I may have ruined it when I went psychotic, possibly not, she knew I had mental health problems, and all I did was leave a strange message, so maybe I'll message her in a week and see if she's still interested. Anyway, here we are starting again... Day 1.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on August 27, 2016, 08:20:08 AM
Day 2. I am not despondent by the day being 2 and not 109. I do however need to set up a strategy for when I have psychotic symptoms. I don't tend to PMO when I am psychotic, but when I start to return to normality, there is danger. I know my situation is somewhat alien to most of you who have no experience of schizophrenia, but advice would be welcome. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on August 28, 2016, 06:16:26 AM
Day 3. I was hit by strong follow up urges yesterday which were hard to ignore. I had to remind myself how bad PMO makes me feel afterwards and how useless it makes me with women. I am coasting at the moment, or focusing on the wider world rather than my own development. Psychosis opens up a hidden reality of the world to me and I find it hard to ignore. I need to get back to bettering myself. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: TiramiSu on August 28, 2016, 07:21:02 AM
Hello Georgos,

so we are in the same boat. After roughly 90 days. relapse....you said: "In the 107 days I was really making progress sexually". For me, I found I made a lot of progress lately regarding negotiating and in general feeling a lot better about myself....So just forget about your relapse and focus on day by day again to do another 90 days.....as you said we are in a war not in one single battle....so we take the good progress and move on.....It is just important that we do not do binge pmoing....and most important is that we develop a stronger consciousness for when we relapse...with me, there is a 100% relationship between anger towards women and pmoing....anyways keep up your good effort...
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on August 29, 2016, 07:46:45 AM
Thank you TiramiSu. Today is day 4. Progress continues.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on August 29, 2016, 09:09:30 AM
Hi Georgos,

Sorry you've had a hard time lately. It must be very tough when you add the ups and downs of schizophrenia on top of the P addiction. My grandmother was schizophrenic and I saw her have some very scary episodes. When I was about 10 years old she had an episode that really scared me and caused me to run away for a couple of days when my parents had left me with her for a couple of weeks. They never had never explained to me about my grandma's problem, so I couldn't understand why she had gone crazy at me. The worst thing was that they still didn't tell me for another 6 years and I got into so much trouble for running away. I thought it was all my fault that grandma went crazy at me. All they had to do was tell me the truth and I would have understood.

I think that still holds true. There's usually no reason to fear somebody who has a condition like schizophrenia, bipolar, etc. What matters is that the person doesn't hide it from people they get close to, and that they have good insight into their condition and that they manage it well and take their medication if that's what's needed. Are you totally on top of your treatment regime right now, Georgos? If you think you may not be, please look at this first. You've one really well with the reboot, I think you need to take care of your mental state first, and you hopefully will react less to the self-doubt about women that are plaguing you at the moment.

I'll keep an eye on your progress.
Best wishes from Malando
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on August 30, 2016, 11:26:31 AM
Thank you Malando for your kind words and support. Unfortunately my treatment regime is not 100% effective, in that although it keeps me stable most of the time, I still have psychotic symptoms every few months. Nobody knows what to do about this, it is just something that I have to live with. I have returned to stability now, however I have also returned to P. Yesterday I looked at P but didn't M. I tried to think positively about this, since looking at P without M is in someway progress. However today I PMOd again. I simply haven't got the strength to start from day 1 again. I have been trying to quit PMO ever since I started some 25 or more years ago. It is true that 107 days is one of my best streaks ever, but the spell has been broken and now I'm back to square one. Psychologically this is very damaging. All I can say at the moment is that I did my best. The long period away from PMO means that at the moment I don't feel so bad doing it, however soon I will reach rock bottom again and then I will become even more neurotic. This is all self-pity that TiramiSu says is not helpful. Rationally I know what to do.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on August 31, 2016, 07:11:52 AM
Rather than think of the whole 107 days as a target again, I'm going to start small, very small. So my first target is five days. Today is day 1, 4 days to go.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 01, 2016, 02:59:22 PM
Day 2, three days to go.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 02, 2016, 11:42:41 AM
Yesterday was easy as I was out all day so had no opportunity to relapse. Today is day 3, so two days to go.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on September 02, 2016, 12:46:11 PM
You got this, Georgos.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 03, 2016, 11:48:42 AM
Thank you Malando, I really appreciate you looking in on me. Today is day 4 so one day to go. Looking at porn is a choice. The easy choice is to look. But the hardest part is not saying no, but rather not asking the question that leads to the choice in the first place. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 04, 2016, 07:56:17 AM
So I made it to day 5 :) it is a small step in the right direction. Now I'm going to aim for seven days. It might seem an even smaller step, but seven days is a kind of milestone, being a week, and I really need to break it down into tiny steps at the moment. So Day 5, two days to go...
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 05, 2016, 01:41:03 PM
Had some strong urges today, the first real urges in six days. Thankfully I managed to ride them out. Today is day 6, one day to go until I reach a week.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on September 05, 2016, 06:52:25 PM
Nice going, Georgos.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 06, 2016, 01:26:42 PM
So I've completed a week now. Had a minor urge today but nothing serious. My next target is ten days, so three days to go.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on September 06, 2016, 01:33:31 PM
So I've completed a week now. Had a minor urge today but nothing serious. My next target is ten days, so three days to go.

Cool. It's amazing how quickly it passes once you're on a roll.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 07, 2016, 11:36:34 AM
Had urges again today. That's three days in a row. I think it's because I'm not doing anything with my days. I need to get back to a routine of doing things. Anyway, today is day 8, two days to go until ten days.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 08, 2016, 08:05:23 AM
No urges today which is good. Today is day 9, one day to go.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 09, 2016, 02:24:43 PM
Had the worst urges so far today. In fact they weren't really urges so much as my dopamine craving brain trying to rationalize why it was ok to PMO. It went on for some time. Luckily the thought of having to come on here again and say I failed overrode them and I'm still PMO free after ten days. I think I'm still going to increase in small increments, so today is day 10, and I will aim for two weeks now, four days to go. Many thanks to all the people reading, especially Malando for his support.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on September 09, 2016, 07:15:30 PM
Had the worst urges so far today. In fact they weren't really urges so much as my dopamine craving brain trying to rationalize why it was ok to PMO. It went on for some time. Luckily the thought of having to come on here again and say I failed overrode them and I'm still PMO free after ten days. I think I'm still going to increase in small increments, so today is day 10, and I will aim for two weeks now, four days to go. Many thanks to all the people reading, especially Malando for his support.
No problemo, Georgos! I think your small goal idea has merit. You're getting there!
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 13, 2016, 02:59:59 PM
Day 14, two weeks completed. Had the beginnings of psychotic symptoms yesterday. Two attractive girls asked me for a cigarette separately on my way home and I started reading all sorts of things into reality, how reality could just change in an instant and my desires could be satisfied if only I could orientate myself properly. I was really tempted to go to a bar on my own, but that would have just sent me totally crazy and lost in my own world. I would have sat there on my own reading things into the people around me and constructing delusional realities. Luckily I phoned my mum and she helped me to decide to go straight home to bed, which I did, and the symptoms had gone in the morning. Anyway, besides the constantly recurring problem of psychosis, me reboot seems to be back on track. I'm still going to keep my targets small, so now I'm going to aim for a week and ten days, so three days to go. Thanks guys.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 16, 2016, 11:18:09 AM
Day 17, another target completed. I have had no urges and no psychosis in the last few days which is good, though I must remember to always be prepared for them to return. I'm spending most of my time engaging in political debate which, whilst time consuming, is not really progressing me personally. I have a good idea for a book of short stories which I want to start writing, but so far I haven't managed to motivate myself. I also want to revise some of my undergraduate studies in preparation to start tutoring at university level again, something that I thoroughly enjoy. Before I went crazy with psychosis last time, I managed to finish the first of my language courses. However, though I learned a lot, I am far from fluent. Doing some t'ai ji again would also be good. In short there is much that I could be doing. It's just a question of finding the motivation. One of the symptoms of schizophrenia is a complete apathy when it comes to self-development. It is a symptom that I struggle with daily. My next target is three weeks. I'll try to start writing my book every day after that. I'm hoping that by stating this as an aim here, I will actually do it. So day 17, four days to go. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 18, 2016, 01:49:24 PM
Day 19. Had some psychotic symptoms last night and a terrible urge today to PMO. It was a really physical urge. I could feel it, not so much in my head as in my lower stomach and towards my genitalia. I came very close to caving. However I managed to go for a walk, get a coffee and then have a nap, after which it seemed to go away. The psychosis only really lasted for the previous evening. I didn't handle it as best as I could. I tried phoning the mental health nurses and they advised me to go to bed, which was one of the options I had been debating with myself, but I was so worked up, I knew I wouldn't sleep and I felt the need, another type of urge, to go out. I went to a pub, and sat quietly, but inside was totally mental as I was perceiving everyone's conversation as relating to me. If anyone had actually talked to me, I'd probably have ended up getting thrown out. Luckily nobody did, but it was a risk I shouldn't have taken. I got home alright, and the people in the flats next to mine helped calm me down and ground me. I finally got to bed at half three in the morning. I should probably be more worried about this turn of events than I am. I've had bouts of psychosis so many times, that having symptoms without getting into trouble seems like a successful management of the situation. But really the most successful thing I could have done was follow the nurses advice and gone straight to bed. It was a risk I took going out, and the truth is it's not worth it. Anyway, there was a really hot girl at the pub, and this, combined with my psychosis was probably the reason for feeling the urge to PMO today. Thankfully, as I said, I managed to avoid any relapse in my reboot and the urge went away. So that's day 19, two days to go till my target of three weeks.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 20, 2016, 08:10:30 AM
So I reached day 21 and then PMOd... I'm a chronic relapser... Tiramisu says relapses are part of the process... this process has been going on for twenty five odd years with me... I can see the initial spell of this website broken and now I'll just revert to going the odd ten days to a month with binges inbetween as I was before I found this website... so the question is, do I keep posting...
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 21, 2016, 03:07:12 AM
Ok, so I've thought about it and I'm still going to post here, though not necessarily count the days for the moment. Reading other people's posts I see that many struggle to go even twenty days. This would give me hope, but I've been counting days for the past twenty five years and it's only in the last five years or so that I've regularly managed to go a month at a time. Given that twenty one days is not really a success. I want to stop for good. That is the reason I came on this website in the first place. I don't know if further analysis will help. It seems that coming out of psychotic episodes is a trigger. It's not so much that I get turned on during psychotic episodes, which I don't, but rather that after experiencing reality bending and distorting so much I lose my judgement and feel like anything goes. I'm not sure what to do about this. However perhaps if I make a note of it here when I do come out of psychotic states I can regain my judgement more quickly, in time to prevent a PMO relapse. We'll see. I wish everyone stays strong. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on September 21, 2016, 08:22:08 AM
It's hard man. Really hard. You've got to remember that 21 days isn't enough to rid your brain of the vicious DeltaFosB chemical in your brain. You need around 8 weeks to get to that stage. That is when it starts to get easier. Until then, only distraction and willpower will get you through to that promised land. Even then there are still emotional trigger that can cause you to relapse, but it's certainly easier from a physical addiction standpoint. Keep trying, Georgos. You can do it.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 21, 2016, 10:54:04 AM
Thanks Malando, as I said, I was keeping busy with political debates. My psychosis and porn use are linked to a central theme, racism vs evolution. I am of mixed ancestry (Asian and European), and being conscious of the dynamics of evolution through study and in later years shamanic-psychotic episodes, keeps drawing me back to P as my source of sexual practice as opposed to actual sex with a woman. I simply cannot make girls understand me, and when I do, I'm so scared, I immediately withdraw. The worst thing about P is it is a reflection of "White" supremacy, and a "White" controlled industry. The sexual revolution in the U.S. might have had some positive aspects but it has led to abortion being the number one killer of "Black" people in the world. Anyway, politics aside, P also makes me feel bad, and I want to stop. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 23, 2016, 01:27:55 PM
So I have PMOd today. I am also in the throws of psychosis. I consciously decided to PMO to try and make my psychosis go away. I have been napping, but the feelings of light headedness combined with intensity of thought continue. I've been getting into weird high energy conversations and I feel exhausted. Will update when its over. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on September 25, 2016, 01:08:59 PM
That's a really tough thing you have to battle, Georgos. I can't blame you for relapsing when you feel there's no other option other than full on psychosis. Of course, if PMO does work, that means there are ways to alleviate an episode. You need to look into other, more healthy ways to get that calming effect rather than PMO. Have you tried Yoga and meditation before? I don't mean in an emergency, but on a consistent daily basis. I believe it can reduce and even avoid some psychotic episodes if you build your level of skill. It is something that must be practiced and honed. Takes years to be good at it, but it can put you in a very serene state very quickly if you are good at it.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 01, 2016, 08:28:56 AM
Thank you Malando, I am still in the throws of psychosis one week after it started :( Haven't PMOd though :)
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 03, 2016, 02:40:44 AM
Extreme paranoia has been plaguing my life for the last week or so. Smoking doesn't help. Indeed it only acts to make things worse, speeding up the thoughts one had created, and breaking them down into ever greater complexes. It takes a strong commitment to the truth to remain still.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on October 04, 2016, 07:31:03 AM
Extreme paranoia has been plaguing my life for the last week or so. Smoking doesn't help. Indeed it only acts to make things worse, speeding up the thoughts one had created, and breaking them down into ever greater complexes. It takes a strong commitment to the truth to remain still.
Here's a wild idea: stop smoking! ;)
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 13, 2016, 10:40:21 AM
So I came out of my psychotic episode about a week ago. It was one of the most terrifying episodes I've ever had, several times I was so paranoid I thought I was going to get killed or worse. It's taken a few days for me to settle down and feel able to write here again. Following Tiramisu I'm not going to count. But I am going to try and update every day. The best thing about the hundred odd days I did before was that I had a routine and was doing things. So as of today I'm going to do half an hours revision of my undergraduate course with the aim of tutoring in it next year. I've done half an hour today, and it was really easy, although the early material is of course the easiest. As the weeks go by I'll start introducing more activities into my day again. Maybe repeat the language course, meditation and t'ai ji. We'll see. Anyway, good luck everybody. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 14, 2016, 11:43:45 AM
So I'm settling down into my routine. Did half an hours revision of my undergraduate course today as planned. Still got a lot of free time, but it's early days and I'm still shaken by my recent psychotic episode. Going to cook now. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 16, 2016, 01:03:38 PM
Beginning to feel like my psychotic episode is behind me. Spent the day yesterday with friends so didn't get a chance to do my revision, however I did do it today. Hopefully I can keep it up.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 19, 2016, 12:12:04 PM
Haven't done my revision for the past three days. I'm having visits from mental health professionals to check up on me everyday and I just don't feel like doing anything after that. They've said they don't see the need to come and they intend to discharge me back to my normal community support team as soon as possible, but they keep forgetting and are not very organised. It's quite annoying because for all intensive purposes I'm back to sanity at the moment. Other than that, nothing new to report, just wanted to update so that I stay on target. I'll try and start my revision again once I'm discharged. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 25, 2016, 09:57:43 AM
Well, I have a joint meeting on Thursday with my care co-ordinator and the crisis team. The aim is to discharge me then. I also have a date, hopefully... thank thee kindly
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 28, 2016, 03:07:32 PM
I have yet to go a month since my 117 day streak. This is disappointing. Mixing politics with sex has always been my downfall, both with regards to porn and establishing sexual relationships with girls. However I don't buy the idea that porn is "funny", nor that relationships cannot be serious, albeit relaxed. I would love to make people laugh, especially girls, however my addiction to porn has made me incredibly bitter about the power of the opposite sex to control me. I am well aware that behind porn is a male dominated society that exploits women, it is not women themselves that I am bitter with, but sexual energy. I want a girl to throw herself at me so I can resist, then make love on my terms. I know too much to engage in laughter and jokes. All of this feeds my addiction which is really born out of hate. I hate myself for being sexually weak and others for not respecting me. If this isn't a reason to stop I don't know what is. Hopefully this time I can do a month at least. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 31, 2016, 03:35:48 AM
I simply cannot talk to women except as a friend. In recent weeks I've made huge strides in introducing myself to women I find attractive. However I'm still failing to follow through. When I try and express my interest I end up harassing women (not extremely, but enough to put them off), treating them like men, or moaning about my insecurities. Perhaps harassment is too extreme a word, I'm not nasty, but I'm basically pursuing a sexual relationship in my intention whilst trying to appear like I'm not. I just don't know how to flirt or make jokes. Jokes seem to me to be always at someone else's expense, and I don't like that. People say just be yourself, but that has never got me anywhere, there is a difference between conversation and flirting, conversation I am good at, flirting I am not. Still at least I have been making progress at introducing myself. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on October 31, 2016, 09:50:18 PM
Hi Georgos, it seems like you are having trouble finding the middle ground between not pursuing hard enough, and pursuing too strongly. So why don't you plan your approach in a medium term way - by that I mean, imagine that you would like to have your dating progress to something physical one month from now. That would mean you need to space things out and not rush them. It means planning dates across several weeks that are not intended to put you in a physical situation at the end of them. In that time you actually get to know them and see how you feel about them, and they about you. If she takes the initiative before that and you feel the same way, great! But at least you'll know that you are slowly but surely trying to build towards something meaningful and satisfying without coming on too strong too soon. If somebody likes you, she will probably make a move towards you at some stage, but don't try to look for signals too much. Don't think about subtle signals - wait for strong ones. Preferably ones where she actively comes forward to you or takes your hand while you're watching a movie, etc. There's nothing wrong with wanting a physical relationship, but you have to build towards it in your situation.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 01, 2016, 07:48:10 AM
Thanks Malando, I've noticed another problem with my technique, I'm always dealing, by that I mean suggesting other men (subtly through conversation) that they might be interested in, it's a form of boasting, any ideas? :(
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on November 01, 2016, 08:43:32 AM
Thanks Malando, I've noticed another problem with my technique, I'm always dealing, by that I mean suggesting other men (subtly through conversation) that they might be interested in, it's a form of boasting, any ideas? :(

I'm not quite understanding what you mean there, Georgos. Especially the "boasting" part. Can you explain this in some more detail? It certainly does sound a bit odd. I never mentioned any other guys when going on early dates with somebody!
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 01, 2016, 10:32:51 AM
It's slightly esoteric, Malando, when I talk about myself, it comes across as if I'm suggesting someone else, the I in question could be anybody, perhaps the solution is simply not to talk about myself, but I struggle to do this...
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on November 03, 2016, 05:57:13 AM
It's slightly esoteric, Malando, when I talk about myself, it comes across as if I'm suggesting someone else, the I in question could be anybody, perhaps the solution is simply not to talk about myself, but I struggle to do this...
Can you give an example of something you might say? I'm still finding it hard to imagine how this situation might play out.

So why do you think think you do it?
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 03, 2016, 07:34:52 AM
Sorry Malando, I'm not explaining myself very well. I don't actually suggest other men when I talk to girls. Thinking about it now I think it's just a case of paranoia brought about by my over analysing. I'll try to explain it though. When you say "I'm still finding it hard to imagine how this situation might play out", I believe one can interpret the subject of the sentence, the "I", as referring to someone else. That's crazy you say, but I believe it's part of the social nature of human interactions. Our personalities are all a combination of each other's and we are always representing each other in conversation. I worry that when I say something about myself, girls immediately think of someone else. As I said this is probably paranoia, but on another level it is probably a failure of myself to talk about myself in a way that is flattering (to the girl that is). This in turn is probably a result of me thinking of myself as mentally ill and thus that there is something wrong with me. I really don't know how to correct this, if I didn't believe I was mentally ill I would be fooling myself. Although thinking about it now, the problem really is that I don't believe that I am mentally ill when I am, i.e. having an episode, and do believe that I am mentally ill when I'm not, i.e. the periods when I'm sane. Who knows, it's just something that I have to deal with, but any suggestions of how to (re)present myself would be most welcome, thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on November 03, 2016, 09:43:10 AM
Sorry Malando, I'm not explaining myself very well. I don't actually suggest other men when I talk to girls. Thinking about it now I think it's just a case of paranoia brought about by my over analysing. I'll try to explain it though. When you say "I'm still finding it hard to imagine how this situation might play out", I believe one can interpret the subject of the sentence, the "I", as referring to someone else. That's crazy you say, but I believe it's part of the social nature of human interactions. Our personalities are all a combination of each other's and we are always representing each other in conversation. I worry that when I say something about myself, girls immediately think of someone else. As I said this is probably paranoia, but on another level it is probably a failure of myself to talk about myself in a way that is flattering (to the girl that is). This in turn is probably a result of me thinking of myself as mentally ill and thus that there is something wrong with me. I really don't know how to correct this, if I didn't believe I was mentally ill I would be fooling myself. Although thinking about it now, the problem really is that I don't believe that I am mentally ill when I am, i.e. having an episode, and do believe that I am mentally ill when I'm not, i.e. the periods when I'm sane. Who knows, it's just something that I have to deal with, but any suggestions of how to (re)present myself would be most welcome, thank you.

I'm slowly getting a sense of what you're talking about, Georgos. It would help to hear an actual example of something you've said to somebody and how it compares to what you really thought in your head. But failing that, I think the only thing you can do is discipline your mind to only utter straightforward and rational sentences. Don't try to anticipate the thoughts of others - they are rarely what we think they are. Go on what they actually say. Allow yourself to speak honestly about yourself. You don't have to hide all your difficult stuff - but don't lay it all out there at once either. Likewise, you don't have to sell yourself in one go either. Allow yourself to participate in the universal right of dating - which is to show off some of your good sides. It's a normal thing to do. A social convention. Being overly modest is not attractive - it makes people think, "this guy doesn't even like himself, so why should I?" Don't try to think your way around these conventions. Join them. Work within them. You should show some vulnerability, but not too much, you should show off your accomplishments, but not too much. Let it come out gradually. In a way, what you really need is to just practice the normal dating ritual. Fake it till you make it. It will get easier. Even with a failed date, you will learn things from every experience. Use it to present yourself better next time.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 07, 2016, 08:03:05 AM
Thank you Malando, your words are very helpful. I'm going to talk about a different subject today. Over the years of being a chronic relapser I have analysed my addiction to porn from a sociological perspective. Issues to do with identity, "race" if you like, though I don't like that classification system, and hierarchy. In reality I have been studying the issue of evolution and creation and sex. I hate porn so much because it reminds me of the corruption present in hierarchies, and my inability to resolve it. In truth there is always contradictions in hierarchies. This is a mathematical fact, though whether you see it as a contradiction or unsolvable problem depends on the logic that you are using. This constant reminder of this fact is the reason, or so I thought, that I kept returning to porn. Yet what do the actual images teach me about this. Nothing. The real reason I return to porn is dopamine. The ideas about hierarchies are really an excuse, in actual fact I have been studying dopamine. The cigarettes, the marijuana (which I no longer do), the porn and the anti-psychotics. All of these act on dopamine. I have been studying the effects of dopamine for most of my life, sometimes enjoying them, sometimes experiencing psychotic episodes, sometimes merely modulating the effects. I have been studying this drug with no intellectual understanding of it. Certainly no understanding of its chemistry. This I need to rectify, but I am so destroyed by overuse of dopamine that I can't bring myself to concentrate on studying it. An excuse perhaps, but just the thought of reading about it provokes anxiety in me. The truth is I need to read all about it. The articles on YOBP, Wikipedia, journals, well maybe journals is going a bit too far. But I need to get a grasp on what this drug is actually doing to my brain and how it works. I am still in denial. Even now I am saying, ok, but later. Well one step at a time. I will read and study about it. That is my challenge for the coming month.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 10, 2016, 08:00:43 AM
Ok, so I've read the Wikipedia article on dopamine. Essentially there are two components to the reward system. Dopamine fires in one part of the brain initiating "seeking" and then fires in another part of the brain when the seeking is met. The seeking pathways exhibit a degree of permanence whilst the meeting pathways are constantly trying to change. Basically the act of seeking is reinforced whilst we are always looking for something better, novel or different, so that things that previously initiated the firing of dopamine in the second stage initiate less dopamine the second time around. Thus whilst we are always seeking, and this is the compulsive behaviour, we are constantly disappointed until we find something new of better. I haven't read the articles on YOBP yet, but I am wondering if it is enough to simply not fulfil the second part of the process by not PMOing, because the seeking pathways are still there. This is probably the reason that people say you will always be an addict. It may be that by denying the secondary release of dopamine, or redirecting the secondary release of dopamine, if that is possible, towards something productive, since the dopamine reward system is for all activities, then the pathways can become weakened through lack of use over time. I have read that meditation done well can break up the seeking pathways, dissolving them, so that is probably another thing I should be doing more of. What I haven't read yet is the direct link between M and dopamine. As I said the dopamine reward system is used for all activities that one engages with. My years of PMO and other dopamine abuses have wrecked my reward system, and this is probably the primary reason I am so inactive. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on November 10, 2016, 09:27:54 AM
Very interesting post, Georgos!

Whether a certain pathway will always exist or not doesn't change the fact that the brain can be trained to emphasise and prefer other pathways. Keeping off the undesirable pathways and emphasising healthy pathways will result in the gradual diminishing of the undesirable pathways - to the point that it's fairly academic whether total extinction occurs or whether the old pathways are so diminished that there is very little chance of activating them again. I think, in the end, the two are practically indistinguishable.

I think meditation is certainly very powerful if well practised. It can be mastered to the extent that the mere hint of an addiction pathway being awoken can be diverted into something else at will. If that is very well mastered it's a bit like cutting the head off the snake - you can't access the rest of it because you diverted right at the start. In that sense, I can see how meditation could essentially dismantle old pathways. Even though theoretically the old pathway is physically there, the mind can be so well trained that there is virtually no chance of that pathway actually being used - it would take a conscious act against all better judgement to do that. So I don't think that we need to consider ourselves addicts for life in the sense that our old pathways will always be poised and ready to reclaim us against our will. The act of mastering one's own thoughts and actions is the cure. It conditions the brain for a new set of behaviours and responses. The initial addiction was attained by unknowingly engaging in behaviour without realising the dangers of it. Once you know the dangers, and you build the mastery over your thoughts and actions, the likelihood of relapsing becomes proportionately unlikely - to the point of virtual impossibility if the mastery if great. That's why we should all practice mental discipline and control. Meditation is an excellent way to do this.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 12, 2016, 10:22:21 AM
Thanks again for your comments Malando, I can't tell you how grateful I am that you take the time to follow my progress. I have been failing miserably the last month or so, managing barely 20 days max and then only once or twice. From today, following TiramiSu, I'm going to try something different. P is my main gripe. I don't like it's ethics, either in relation to myself, or in relation to those in the industry. I want its distortions out of my life. MO is less problematic for me ethically, though one can still have distorted fantasies, which is not a good thing. However, I'm going to try to separate the two from now on, so that I only ever MO and never look at P. In the past when I've tried to do this I've found myself not feeling able to MO without P. To address this I'm going to stipulate that I must MO at least once every five days. This might sound like I am going against the principles of nofap. And in a sense that is correct. However I am choosing the lesser of two evils. P is the main thing I want out of my life, and by ensuring that I MO I will be redirecting the pathways in my brain to something less harmful. Once I no longer look at P then maybe I can address MO if I still find it an issue. So today is day 1. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 13, 2016, 02:01:42 PM
Day 2. MO is still problematic for me, at least in excess. It still has a knock on effect on my day, and the release of dopamine makes my brain fuzzy. Not to mention I feel a little dirty afterwards as well. However it is nowhere near as bad as PMO. PMO makes me feel terrible and hate myself. In fact I am wondering whether MO cuts out the release of dopamine associated with seeking. I never get urges to MO, only PMO. With MO there is no seeking, no endlessly looking through images to find the right one. Perhaps there is a little as you fantasize. Perhaps I should be wary of this, if I find myself having to come up with more and more novel fantasies in order to O. But it is early days. If I can permanently cut P out of my life I will be pleased. So as I said, day 2. Here we go. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 14, 2016, 02:12:28 PM
Day 3. Had an urge to PMO today but ignored it. I didn't MO either, don't want to MO every day. Indeed you could ask why don't I just stop both (PMO and MO)? The answer is that I have spent most of my life trying to stop both and never succeeded. If I can separate P from MO, so that I never look at P again, that will be a huge step forward. In all the years I've tried to stop, I've never really tried this strategy before. I've thought about it, but never really put it into practice. The reason is that I don't get urges to MO, only urges to PMO and I've never been disciplined enough to make sure I MO regularly to redirect away from P, always falling back to simply abstaining from P and MO altogether because I never feel like MOing. Don't get me wrong, I still derive a moment of pleasure (or rush of neurotransmitters) from MO, but it is an effort and not compulsive. It may become compulsive as time goes on if I follow through with this strategy and that is a worry. But if I can cut P out of my life for good, I will be in a much better place. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on November 14, 2016, 08:59:42 PM
If you are going to use this strategy, I would advise you to set a strict limit on how often you M. Set it to 1-2 times per week, max. Otherwise, you can still find that it gets compulsive - and it leaves you still wishing you could watch P to enhance the experience.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: TiramiSu on November 15, 2016, 01:01:44 AM
if we m, we often think about p. so if you m, make sure you do not think about p.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Mikel on November 15, 2016, 03:10:51 AM
I have nothing against masturbating during the reboot but I don't for the following reason. As I have PIED, I obviously find it hard to get an erection. So if I'm masturbating with no material, I find I have to fantasise in order to get hard and as I'm in the early stages I tend to think about porn inspired acts or even porn itself, therefore still igniting the same neural pathways which I'm trying to close.
I think you mentioned in your journal about the fuzzy head as well. I get that and don't like it which is also another reason why I don't masturbate.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 15, 2016, 04:42:42 PM
Thank you guys for taking time to comment on my page. Today is day four. Had one urge to PMO today earlier in the day, ignored it and didn't MO either. I know I can go months at a time without either, the problem is I always come back to it :( I've recognised that some of you guys have quit P but still engage in lesser activities along the same lines. I take heart and inspiration from that. I'm not getting into P substitutes or anything like that. Simply trying to reduce to MO alone rather than the extreme hard mode that I usually try. This to me is progress. Good luck everyone. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 16, 2016, 10:47:49 AM
I've failed again! Looked at P and then MOed separately about half an hour afterwards. This is getting ridiculous. I don't know whether this forum is a good idea any more. I used to have so much anxiety about not being able to talk about PMO. That was definitely bad for my mental health. But at least it motivated me to keep trying to stop. Now I seem to just do it and then confess here to make me feel better. I've no idea what the way forward is. No one can do this but me. On the plus side I've been seeing a girl a few times, it's too early to call her my girlfriend, but we're definitely moving in that direction. Perhaps this has something to do with be being so off the ball with rebooting at the moment :(
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on November 16, 2016, 11:03:06 AM
I've failed again! Looked at P and then MOed separately about half an hour afterwards. This is getting ridiculous. I don't know whether this forum is a good idea any more. I used to have so much anxiety about not being able to talk about PMO. That was definitely bad for my mental health. But at least it motivated me to keep trying to stop. Now I seem to just do it and then confess here to make me feel better. I've no idea what the way forward is. No one can do this but me. On the plus side I've been seeing a girl a few times, it's too early to call her my girlfriend, but we're definitely moving in that direction. Perhaps this has something to do with be being so off the ball with rebooting at the moment :(

Ok, I'm going to call you on your bullshit here, Georgos. You're seeing a new girl, and you still have time for porn?! That's bullshit, man! If you are serious about getting anywhere with a real girl, you gotta drop this porn shit and join the real world. No bullshit, no excuses. It's that simple. Porn will make you fuck this chance up, I guarantee it. I've been reading your thread for a while now as you know. It has been quite obvious that you are craving a real connection with a real girl. Now is the time to leave behind the adolescent fucking around with porn and become the man you want to be. I'm supportive of you as your online friend, I've been forgiving of your relapses, but this is a different situation - you are getting involved with a real person. She deserves the respect of having a guy being focussed on her, not going home after a date and checking out 100 women and getting off to them. By doing that you are robbing yourself of the precious anticipation that will be your first time with your new girl. You want as much distance between looking at porn and that first experience as possible. You've got to get it out of your head and be clear and focussed on your girl. You both need that if you want a chance at this becoming something real and long lasting.

I'm going pretty hard at you here, and I hope you understand that as somebody who has followed your thread with interest, I do care about you and how this turns out for you. I can't in good conscience just sit back and say, "hey man, don't sweat it, you'll do better next time". Something tells me that this is a critical juncture for you - this is your chance to break out of that shit and get onto a new path. Don't blow it, man! I really want this for you. Seize the day. Don't quit the forum, quit the porn. Think about what you want and who you want to be.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 16, 2016, 12:19:28 PM
Malando, I'm going to try and state what the problem is, you're right in everything you say, but I'm having trouble making the transition from PMO to a real sexual relationship. We've been on a few dates and talked about our initial feelings and its obvious that we both want a relationship, but I'm scared to touch her, even hold her hand, let alone kiss, even when I think she's giving me the cues to do so. PMO is really the only form of sexual activity I know. With my first girlfriend a few years ago, she used to initiate all our touching, touching me and asking me to kiss her or have sex. The girl I have been seeing at the moment is not like that. I am hopeful that things will develop if I just give it time, I'm thinking maybe I should be brave enough to ask her if she wants me to kiss her when I sense she does, since I'm so inexperienced at reading subtle cues, as I said, hopefully we'll get to a place where we can be more intimate. None of this is an excuse for looking at P, you're right, it's disrespectful to her and will probably ruin my chances of forming a proper real relationship if I continue.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on November 16, 2016, 12:56:41 PM
I totally understand that you are experiencing a lot of doubt and uncertainty about your new prospective relationship - particularly as it pertains to physical intimacy. But none of that in any way explains why going back to PMO would help things. PMO cannot prime you for action, reduce your anxiety, or offer you anything at all to help this situation. All it can do it further erode your confidence and make it a virtual guarantee that things won't work out. You might think it's all you know with regard to sexuality, but it's not even worth knowing. It's poles apart from anything you actually want out of life. I'm spelling this out for you in the strongest terms because I firmly believe that you are on the precipice of something great here. This is a big moment in your life. Playing out this tired routine of PMO again would be a tremendous mistake. You can have something real here. It can be so much more satisfying than anything you ever got out of PMO. You'll regret it so much if you mess it up because of PMO. Ok, so you are going to go through a few weeks of not knowing where you stand - is that such a bad thing? It's a damn sight better than being caught in the PMO web and knowing that's exactly where you stand.

Treat this like an important experiment - you don't know what the outcome will be, you know that you have to leave PMO behind in order to explore the contents of this relationship. The two are mutually exclusive. If you remain with PMO, you will learn nothing about what this relationship could become. PMO robs you of the vitality and drive to get closer to this girl. They cannot coexist. You'll know within a month whether this thing is going anywhere. At the very least this should be the greatest motivation ever for getting away from PMO and old behaviours. If you relapse now, you might be stuck here for a very long time. I know you don't want that. Give it a chance to succeed. Don't be afraid to explore the unknown. It's more interesting than the tired old patterns. You can tell her that you're not very experienced. Open up to her. She already knows this about you, trust me. Girls can spot an operator from a shy, inexperienced guy. It doesn't usually influence their desire to be with somebody all that much. If you open up to her about feeling unsure, I don't think that will bother her. She might even make the first move and make it easier for you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 17, 2016, 01:58:41 PM
Thank you once again Malando for your great help. As I said I was wondering about quitting the forum which seemed to have become for me just a place to make excuses. Here is the biggest problem I face. I have literally been counting days since I was about nine or maybe younger. I have never succeeded. For most of my life my record was twenty days. Just under ten years ago I began praying, despite having a strongly atheist upbringing, and however it managed to work, I managed to go five months. After that I began being able to go the odd month here and there, but never managed to recapture the five months again. About once a year I managed two months. Joining this forum I managed three and a half months, possibly, though I can't remember exactly, the second best I've ever done. But the sorry state of affairs remains, I can't stop. What is to be done. Do I need to become a committed born again Christian or Muslim or whatever else. I see too many contradictions and arbitrariness in religions to convert. On the other hand prayer, whether it be in to higher power or oneself, is definitely what got me to the stage I'm at now whereby I could abstain for at least a month at a time. How can I make my prayer more effective? If it is a matter of faith, how do I develop this? What should I have faith in if failure is the only option I have known for almost thirty years? Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on November 20, 2016, 11:24:09 AM
Georgos, I wonder whether the answer lies in more Earthly solutions? In the end, any moment where somebody slips up comes down to actions and choices in that moment. A person may pray for strength, but they will still have to make a decision what they are going to do in that moment when unwanted thoughts and impulses are entering the mind. In my observations on this problem, it's amazing how many people put themselves right in temptation's way when urges strike them. They might be thinking of looking at some images and don't want to give in, but do they walk away from the computer that tempts them? No, often they don't! Some people tempt themselves by looking at G-rated images on FB, but then allow themselves to get a bit more salacious. Then they tell themselves that they are going to look but not touch... You know the rest. People spend too long on computers. It's little wonder that large chunks of their life start to be conducted on computers. That's the root of this problem - people living virtual lives. Risk-averse, effort-averse, socially disconnected, techno addicts: that's what so many people have become. Don't spend more time on the computer than you actually need to. That's the first thing to do when somebody has an addiction relating to technology. For some, that might mean they eliminate it entirely for a time.

When urges hit: what needs to happen is to manage the moment. If you know you are feeling tempted or vulnerable, you need to get yourself out of harm's way. Make yourself busy with something else entirely. Go for a long walk. Don't be anywhere near technology if you feel an urge to look at P. Strengthen you mind - learn how to change your thoughts onto something interesting and meaningful when you feel those urges coming to the surface. Don't sit there hoping they will go away and thinking how tough it is that those thoughts are there - that is giving them life and encouragement. You need to get your mind onto something different, and healthy. The reason praying can only get you so far is that when you are praying, you are still thinking of the thing you want to put out of your mind. It keeps it near you, it keeps a grip on you because you are still engaging your mind with it - even if you are declaring war on it.

Any moment can be managed if you are aware and decisive. If you crave the comfort, don't reach for porn, call up your girlfriend and see if she wants to do something. Replace the artificial and empty with real experiences. A walk through a park will always be more meaningful than engaging in hopeless fantasies on a computer. Be more decisive than you have been before. If the urge approaches, say, "no, I'm going to do something else. That is not good for me, I'm going to do this....". It needs to be a strong statement you make - both to your current state of mind, and to your subconscious. The subconscious needs to get the message too - otherwise it will still engage with the temptation in the background and it will find a way to enter your thoughts. You've got to tell your inner self that this is the end of this. And until you have mastered that, you must master the moment by taking action when the thoughts enter your mind.

Have a think about it. Ask yourself whether you really take a firm stance in the tempting moments. Ask yourself whether you shout no, I'm doing something else. Ask yourself who has the power to make these decisions in these moments. Is it a higher power, or is it your own decision?
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 08, 2016, 11:15:46 AM
Ok, so I haven't PMOd for some time now, a couple of weeks or so, I have looked at P a couple of times, once edging, but I haven't been obsessing about it, neither about stopping nor about looking. This has been much better than counting days. The reason I have looked a couple of times is because of momentary thoughts of disillusionment with ever having sex, at least with the girl I am currently seeing. Several times we almost spent the night together, but each time I sowed doubts from my own fears about being able to interact sexually. With my only real sexual experiences being from PMO, I am used to passively consuming sexual stimuli, having to actively perform is scary for me. I am not worried about ED, though the only two times I ever had sex I did suffer from DE, what really worries me is about interacting. I am scared of not knowing when I am getting a come on. I am scared to put out feelers. I was just pleased that I was able to invite her to spend the night with me by text. That for me was progress. The next step would be to invite her using my spoken voice. But she got really fed up with me inviting her and then backing off. Our relationship hasn't ended, but it has definitely dropped down a level. I am still hopeful that given time we can return to trying to interact sexually again. I think another problem, which also stems from P, is the constant search for the perfect aesthetic. The girl I am seeing is physically attractive, but I am not madly attracted to her physically. I am madly attracted to her personality, which is perhaps more important, but physically I am a little unsure, which only adds to my fear, and also leads me to get into the mode of keep searching when I try and interact sexually. Also when we talk I sometimes get paranoid that as she is searching to see what I am saying she is realising that what I am really looking for is P and not her. All of these problems stem from my years of PMO. I think I just have to stay positive and not dwell on P as I have been. I keep remembering Malando's advice that this could be a turning point for me, and that helps. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on December 08, 2016, 11:43:31 AM
Hi Georgos, you said you are madly attracted to her personality but you are unsure of how attracted you are to her physically. I just wanted to say that the personality counts for a lot more than the body. I don't think you would love her personality if you found her physically ugly. What you have to remember is that you are a recovering P-addict and that would have shaped your ideas on what is attractive. I think you should give it more time to get your brain recalibrate to real women before you make any decisions about your friend. When you are really attracted to a person's personality you will have the best physical experience of your life. What good sex needs is not perfect bodies, but a great connection. That's all you need. I think you should keep working at building your connection with her. I know you are struggling, but you really are making too much of all this sex stuff. It's not as explosive and dangerous as you think. What is needed is for you to get more emotionally close to her, then the rest will work itself out. You are in a catch-22 right now because you are holding yourself at a bit of a distance to protect yourself, but the solution is to get closer to her. You can't have both. So the turning point I was talking about was essentially about you getting past your fears and worries and building a connection with her - even if it scares you half to death right now. I really think you'll kick yourself if you don't give this a chance and you let it go, just so you can feel safe. PMO has already stolen a lot from you - don't let it take any more from you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on December 18, 2016, 03:59:05 PM
Hi Georgos,

Just dropping in to say hi and hope you're doing ok.

Best wishes,
M.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 19, 2016, 01:02:05 PM
Hi Malando, thanks for your greetings. It's coming up to the end of the year and I'm allowing myself to simply PMO whenever I get the urge. I keep telling myself that this coming year will be the year I give up, but there are still a few days before January the 1st and I keep using that as an excuse to not worry about it. Because of course, come January the 1st everything will change right.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on December 19, 2016, 10:06:54 PM
Hi Malando, thanks for your greetings. It's coming up to the end of the year and I'm allowing myself to simply PMO whenever I get the urge. I keep telling myself that this coming year will be the year I give up, but there are still a few days before January the 1st and I keep using that as an excuse to not worry about it. Because of course, come January the 1st everything will change right.

Be careful of thinking you can binge on PMO and start fresh in the new year. What you will be doing is giving yourself massive dopamine rewards and then trying to quit cold turkey on the 1st of January. It's not realistic. You will make it harder to stop because you are bathing your brain in dopamine and then you have to go through terrible withdrawals. I would suggest you try to limit it as much as you can before you commit to quitting.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Marley on December 22, 2016, 05:45:48 PM
so what day are u on now?
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 23, 2016, 02:17:32 PM
Day 4 for me now :)
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Marley on December 23, 2016, 06:19:02 PM
me too, always more tricky the first week I think. Having any flashbacks etc? Day 5 tomorrow:)
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on December 24, 2016, 12:13:24 AM
Day 4 for me now :)

Nice work, Georgos!  :)
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 24, 2016, 02:13:06 PM
Sad to see Marley drop out after only four days, it's tough, I've been there, I'm determined this year will be the year I quit for good, don't want to fail before the end of the year either. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 25, 2016, 01:15:52 PM
Seasons Greetings to everyone. Day 6 for me now.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 26, 2016, 10:31:13 AM
Coming up to a week and I'm struggling. Don't want to lose the competition, but the old thoughts of "it isn't so bad looking", and "looking won't do any harm", keep entering my mind. The fact is that for most of my life I have PMO'd and my life hasn't been that bad! But the secrecy, guilt, and self-loathing, not to mention the dopamine abuse, has definitely held me back, even causing psychosis in combination with other factors, and left me in a situation that is far from admirable. I am still determined that this coming year will be the year I stop for good and that stopping has already started. I need to get a grip and move forward. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on December 26, 2016, 08:13:09 PM
Come on, stay strong, Georgos! You can do it! You must do it...
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: mobilfreak on December 26, 2016, 09:15:15 PM
Keep counting and set a reward at some goals and milestones. U give u something nice for making a better life!

U doing great!
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on January 26, 2017, 03:28:57 PM
So coming up to the end of the first month of the new year and still clean :) Had a serious psychotic relapse for the first few weeks. Thought we were living in the last days. Am better now but still a bit morbid and not doing anything with my time. Slowly, slowly. I still have the same aims I had a year ago. Have to be careful not to start doing everything at once or else I'll fail. At the same time I really need to be doing something. I need to just pick one thing for February and stick to doing it. Will update when I've done this. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on January 30, 2017, 11:24:17 AM
30 days of the New Year and still clean. Now it's time to start doing some things with my life. As you all know I suffer from schizophrenia, and as a result I haven't worked for some time. Work doesn't seem to make a difference to how often I relapse, so there is little incentive for me to do anything. I tend to drift through each day, sitting in cafes drinking coffee and smoking. I don't watch TV, listen to music or read. As little stimulation as possible seems to keep me sane. The one thing I do do is read politics on the internet, this is probably the biggest thing that causes my relapses if I'm honest and I'm now thinking that despite finding it captivating, I should give it a rest. I don't have the internet at my flat and I'm thinking that I should limit my use of it at my parents as well, only checking my email and coming on here. I also want to start teaching again, preferably undergraduate mathematics, as an unofficial tutor at first. To do this I need to get up to speed, so as of tomorrow I plan to go to the British Library every day for four hours and revise as well as do a bit of all round reading/research on areas of maths that interest me. In at least three of the evenings per week I will go to t'ai ji classes so that will by three days that I don't go to my parents house at all and thus don't have access to the internet. I want to start the day with a few push ups and meditation as well. After saying that I didn't want to rush into things, this seems like an awful lot to suddenly start doing, but I've changed my mind, I need to take the bull by the horns and get active, and with the help of this forum I should be able to do so. I'm still seeing the girl I met last year. We're exchanging messages every day and we've been on several dates, but we've yet to even kiss, so at this stage we're just good companions for each other. Hopefully it will escalate into something more physical, but I'm in no rush. This is the year that I quit my addiction for good. Thank you. 
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on January 30, 2017, 11:36:38 AM
Sounds great, Georgos! Congrats, my friend.  :)

Keep going, keep building on your successes.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 02, 2017, 08:23:40 AM
Thanks Malando :) After my last psychotic relapse a couple of weeks ago, the doctors are really keen for me to try and give up smoking which they speculate exacerbates my condition. I haven't told them about my PMO addiction, so I've no excuse really for not trying to give up smoking. Also, I want to see if I can go to a t'ai ji class every day and giving up smoking would be one way to save enough money to afford doing that. However, given that I've never gone a day without smoking since I started some 20 years ago, despite trying to quit on numerous occasions I'm not confident. I have several mental blocks about smoking. One of them is that I think it helps me to deal with my psychotic symptoms despite the doctors speculating that it makes it worse. Anyway, I've decided to try a little baby step first. From Monday, I'm going to not smoke in my flat for a week. If I do longer, then great, but I'm going to limit the aim to a week so that I have a definite goal that is achievable which should boost my moral. It will be difficult, I often hear voices in the morning as soon as I wake up, even when I'm not in a state of psychotic relapse, and my first instinct is to reach for a cigarette to cope with them. We'll see how it pans out. But here is my first aim, a week of not smoking in my flat from Monday. Wish me luck. Thank you. (I'm still clean with regards to PMO by the way).
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on February 02, 2017, 08:00:40 PM
What do you actually smoke? I haven't heard of regular tobacco causing increased symptoms in schizophrenics, but smoking weed can definitely do that.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 03, 2017, 07:57:52 AM
Hi Malando, I smoke regular tobacco, not weed. There was some recent research that suggested tobacco could inflame psychosis, and I suppose this is what they are going on. It is pure speculation on their part. There is a definite correlation between me smoking more and having psychotic symptoms, but I have always put this down to me trying to self-medicate, rather than the other way around. At any rate, since the meds don't seem to be stopping me having psychotic symptoms every few months, though without them I'd probably be even worse, the doctors think it's worth a try. Tobacco does act on dopamine, and as far as schizophrenia is understood at all, which is not very much, dopamine certainly seems to play a significant part. The meds for example all act on dopamine. Anyway, I'm feeling nervous about giving up in my flat as I've been having some quite intense dreams these past few days and am not sure how I will cope without a cigarette, but this is probably all psychological. I will do my best to do a week from Monday. Thanks again for your interest Malando, PMO is not even occurring to me at the moment which is excellent, long may it continue. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 04, 2017, 03:24:51 PM
So in two days time I will try to go a week without smoking tobacco in my flat. I hope it helps. However I have been thinking. Some years ago I went to an optimum nutrition specialist who worked specifically with the brain. They prescribed a whole host of supplements of nutrients that I was supposedly deficient in and a diet that involved cutting out various foods that I was supposedly intolerant to. I got a lot better. Indeed around that time I managed to go a whole year without psychotic symptoms. However I found that when I stopped taking the supplements I remained the same and gradually I started reintroducing the proscribed foods into my diet. I took the whole thing to be placebo. Now I am thinking that this might have been too hasty a judgement. I'm not going to go back on to the supplements, at the moment at least, partly because they are expensive. But I am going to cut out the top three foods that I was diagnosed as intolerant to, namely milk, eggs and coffee. As of today I will no longer consume these three foods. Hopefully this will help. Anyway, I am still PMO clean after over thirty five days, long may it continue. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 05, 2017, 12:51:03 PM
As of tomorrow I will not smoke in my flat for at least a week. I've done it before, for about the same length of time, so I should be able to do it again. I cut out dairy, eggs and coffee today. That went fine. I'm doing push ups and meditation first thing in the morning and I'm doing a bit of maths revision every day. All this is great. Could I be doing more? Yes! In fact I could be doing much, much more. But I fear that is not really realistic for me at the moment. It is a difficult balance. Constantly thinking I could be doing more, but not doing it, is damaging psychologically, whilst the reality that I could be doing much more and am not doing it is not a good thing. The simple answer is to just do it, not think about the pros and cons or whether it is worth doing or how much effort it will take or, or, or... I am very happy with what I am doing, long may it continue. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 05, 2017, 01:09:45 PM
Was looking at some self-development forums on the web and came across the following post linking procrastination to porn to dopamine to some condition called anhedonia. The post is here: http://www.warriorforum.com/mind-warriors/1249981-cure-procrastination-what-if-procrastination-illness.html?view=classic

"The number one thing you should do if you're procrastinator and you have tried all the self-help stuff is...

Drumroll please!

Make sure your REWARD / Motivation system is working properly.

Aka Dopamine and the other neurotransmitters such as GABA, Acetylcholine and serotonin.

If you have deficiency in these neurotransmitters it can cause havok with you brain function and motivation for life.

For most people who procrastinate there's NO POINT in doing tasks because they get no reward from it.

So they have to use a lot of WILL POWER just to do anything. Unless its things like watching TV, playing computer games or masturbating. Or something they love extremely. In some cases you may use to love something but now you can't be asked to do it at all anymore.

Guess why? Lack of dopamine.

They know they SHOULD do it but they rather do something else that makes them feel good for the dopamine release. It's hard for a procrastinator to do something they don't want to do without an excellent reward system in place.

Doesn't matter how much REASON why you put behind it. It won't last. You always have to be doing something NEW to feel good.

The new trend now is MINI habit's. That won't work either if you're deficient.

It the hardware thats not working properly not the software.

Doesn't matter how much software (incantations affirmations, visualization self-help programs) you do. You'll still be stuck because your hardware is not in order.

While you'll get excited for a while and buy product after product to get you dopamine fix. You won't follow through and take action especially if you're deficient in dopamine.

How do you get deficient in dopa and the other neurotransmitters?

Porn, Ejaculating and substances like cocaine spike dopamine way out of wack. So in order to feel pleasure, you have to do these things and NOTHING else really gives you that sense of reward. Meaning you have to do something extreme to really feel excited and motivated about something...

But guess what... That won't last.

Now this might also give you a condition called anhedonia.

It's basically a condition where you can't feel much. Your feelings are numb and shallow. You can feel negative feelings way more than positive feelings."
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 06, 2017, 04:52:54 AM
So day 1 of not smoking in my flat passed successfully. In fact it was really easy. The challenge, however, is to make it permanent. I've also been reading a bit about anhedonia. Apparently anti-psychotic medication can cause it as well as all the other dopamine messing things like PMO etc. It's a real problem for me. Hopefully getting off PMO will have a big impact. I'm over 37 days clean now. Not planning on introducing anything new into my routine at the moment. Just want to consolidate the little that I am doing. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 07, 2017, 07:57:39 AM
Day 2 of not smoking in my flat and I am finding it surprisingly easy. This is probably because I am smoking just as much as I ever was. But this is not the point. The point is I am controlling where and when I smoke by choice. The next step is to limit it further. However, I want the current limits to become ingrained first so I'm going to focus on maintaining not smoking in my flat for a week first and then extend it to permanently. I'm in no rush, even if my doctors are. Cutting out dairy, eggs and coffee has been relatively easy so far as well. I've decided to just enjoy the week with the few activities and disciplines that I am doing and not try to do anything more at this stage. I've listed several extra improvements that I want to make as time goes by in my private diary, but I really don't want to put too much pressure on myself. I have to remember to enjoy life and the moment.
Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 08, 2017, 05:53:21 AM
Day 3 of not smoking in my flat. Today was really tough. I'm worried that I might need more than a week to settle into this. Obviously I want to extend it to not smoking at more times and eventually giving up. We'll see. Anyway, over thirty nine days PMO clean now so doing good. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 09, 2017, 06:39:49 AM
Day 4 of not smoking in my flat. Still finding it tough in the mornings, but I'm getting there. I think I'll need to focus on this for at least two weeks in order to get it ingrained in my routine. Have been completely voluntarily cutting back my smoking in the day as well. But at this stage I'm not investing any mental energy in ensuring that I stick to that. After I'm completely happy not smoking in my flat, I'll try to establish some more rules about when and where I can smoke in the day. I will give up. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 10, 2017, 06:35:18 AM
Day 5 of not smoking in my flat. Still an effort in the morning. Actually managed to cut my smoking consumption in half yesterday, but that's not a requirement at the moment, just a voluntary bit of extra discipline. Think I'll make it a requirement in a couple of weeks once the mornings get easier. Haven't heard from the girl I've been seeing in a while and am mildly concerned she might of given up on me. As I said we've been in contact, via phone and text, pretty much every day for the past two or three months, and we've been on a few dates, but we haven't kissed or anything, so so far it hasn't been a physical relationship. That hasn't bothered me much. Don't know if my libido is low or if I'm just happy enjoying the companionship and knowing that there's someone at the end of the phone to speak to each day, but I really haven't been that interested in anything physical at the moment, which is not to say that it wouldn't be nice. In a way, I think this kind of relationship has been really good for me, because it's been a chance to develop a meaningful relationship that isn't focused on the physical. Hopefully she'll contact me soon. We'll see. Anyway, I don't really want to count the days without PMO, I'm finding it working quite well just putting it out of my mind, indeed it hasn't even been entering my mind, except when I write about it here, so for the time being I'm not even going to mention PMO, just take it as read that I've been clean since before the New Year. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 11, 2017, 11:58:50 AM
So day 6 of not smoking in my flat and nothing much to report. I'm basically quite stable in my routine. My first thought in the morning is still to have a cigarette in bed, but since I no longer keep my tobacco by my bedside meaning that I have to get up either way, I'm succeeding in making the decision to smoke outside. The next step is to have breakfast first :) These past few days I've managed to cut my smoking consumption in half by also not smoking when I'm walking too and from places. This I've treated as purely voluntary, but as of next week I'll make it a permanent requirement as well. With regards to doing things with my time, I'm not really doing anywhere near even half of the things that I want to be doing, t'ai ji classes three times a week, half an hour's maths revision a day, and some push ups and meditation in the morning. Perhaps that sounds like a fair bit, but considering most people work a seven hour day it's not really anything to write home about. However I do have a condition, and I'm not expected to work so many hours, so I'm reasonably happy with the way things are at the moment. The main thing is that I don't relapse. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 12, 2017, 05:48:27 AM
So I've succeeded in doing seven days of not smoking in my flat. It still doesn't feel easy when I wake up. Perhaps that is because I know that I am going to smoke, and the extra obstacles to doing that, i.e. getting dressed and going outside, seem a harsh imposition. However, I'm going to push on, very slightly. As of tomorrow, I'm going to make sure that I have my breakfast first and do my push ups and meditation, before going outside to smoke, it's a little tiny baby step, but I'm still really in need of consolidating. I smoked 11 rollups yesterday, down from about thirty to forty average for a day, so I'm quite happy taking baby steps at the moment. From tomorrow then, I'll count another week, a week of not smoking before breakfast and morning exercises. I'm pretty confident. By the way, just in case anyone thinks I'm going off topic, I'm 100% committed to my reboot. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 12, 2017, 01:29:31 PM
Going to update twice today. As I said in the morning, I've completed my seven day challenge to not smoke in my flat and am extending it now to another seven days, this time not smoking before breakfast. I'm also continuing to not smoke whilst walking to and from places, which I just sort of adopted as a rule somewhat naturally. The up shot is that my smoking is now down to just over 10 rollups a day on average. So far so good. The problem is that every time I try and give up smoking it derails the rest of my efforts some how. I don't know if it is the change in ups and downs of dopamine, the reward system, or other imbalances caused by changing the frequency and amount that I smoke, but something about cutting down leads to all sorts of problems with my routine. As of today, I have done eleven days straight of mathematics study every day. But today I am thinking of jacking it in, for no other reason than my dopamine levels are all out of kilter. So I'm writing this now in the hope that it will motivate me to push through and do what I've set out to do. The worst part is that once I start missing the odd day, it all falls apart. This is perhaps another psychological problem that I need to address, an all or nothing approach, that is really quite useless to my progression. Thinking about it now, it probably comes from my years of trying to stop PMO and adopting the same approach to work. To be honest, I should be allowed to give myself a day off, without everything crumbling down. However, this is not really what it is about, I want to do the study, I just feel sh*t. On the plus side, my sort of girlfriend finally got in touch today, so that is good. And I am quitting smoking! Not to mention PMO. We'll just have to see if I can get it together with what is left of the day to do my maths. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: TiramiSu on February 13, 2017, 12:27:36 AM
Not Smoking is good! Keep up your efforts. It is a waste of Money anyways.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 13, 2017, 05:43:54 AM
Thanks TiramiSu. So Day 1 of not smoking before breakfast complete. It was really easy actually. But the hard part is making it permanent. I got some maths done last night in the end. I also only smoked eleven rollups again, going to try to stick to this number for the time being, though of course if I get it lower that will be a bonus. Tomorrow will be a month and a half of the New Year with no PMO. Feeling good. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 14, 2017, 03:28:40 AM
Well my reboot from PMO is still going strong, long may it continue, but everything else has gone to pot. It started yesterday when I met a friend who also smoked. I smoked several cigarettes with him making it impossible for me to stick to 11 cigarettes for the day. Once I realised that I just gave up and smoked more. I missed my maths and gratitude journal, and then this morning I had disturbing dreams and woke up at the crack of dawn craving a cigarette. I smoked in my flat, missed breakfast and my daily exercises and now I'm here. As I said in a previous post, it's this all or nothing attitude that is crippling. The moment I miss one target, I cave on all my other targets. Perhaps it has to do with time. I can't go back in time to correct the failure, so I just keep on digging. I can't seem to just take small failures in my stride. I need to fail big, before I can start again. Fail so much that it becomes an unquestionable failure. My guess is that this has to do with dopamine and the reward system. I just can't bring myself to start again, or to just carry on regardless of the slip up. I'm using a lot of negatives in my writing. Psychologically I'm not addressing the problem, just pointing it out. I think someone else's post about reactionary states of mind and mastery states of mind is the right description. Reactionary goes into full panic mode and acts in ways that make things worse. Mastery deals with the situation appropriately and in context. Today is but one day in the thirty seven years of my life. I can't go back in time, but I can go forward. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on February 14, 2017, 06:27:26 AM
Get control of yourself, Georgos! When you start thinking this way, it's not hard to relapse with PMO too. This is an important moment for you. Just reset and go again. One day is not going to matter. If you look back in one month's time and this is your only lapse, you won't care about that one day. Also, next time you meet that friend, the first thing you should talk about is that you are trying to quit smoking. Put it on the agenda right away so he knows that he needs to respect what you are trying to do. See if you can have a chat without smoking. If you can't, what does that say about this friendship? It's based on addictive behaviours?

Best of luck.
M.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 15, 2017, 02:07:58 PM
Thanks Malando, obviously I was being a bit hysterical. You're right, thinking that way is not helpful. However I do observe the same pattern with my routines in that I set them up, gradually increase the activities, then miss one activity, and then miss all of them and am back to square one. Missing a single activity should not automatically result in the complete collapse of my routine, but in general it does. I need to work on this. Anyway, my reboot from PMO is on going. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 16, 2017, 06:53:44 AM
So it's not the end of the world. Failing in my routine has unleased some creativity in me. This is also a regular pattern for me. I've had some mathematical ideas. One of them is an interesting research idea, and the other from which the first was born is a way of presenting certain topics that I'm teaching at the moment. If I'd just been locked into doing things by rote then I wouldn't of had the ideas in the first place. However I have identified a problem with myself. I simply know too many scraps of information from all over the place to put my thoughts in order efficiently. I don't know if this is one of the reasons I find it so hard to synch with girls. My meditation teacher said that I had an over developed intellect chakra and needed to balance it with developing my physical and heart chakras. But whilst this may help with my learning of life lessons, I don't think it is going to help with me synching with a girl. The mess in my mind will still be there. If I develop physically and emotionally, then the mess may start to be transmuted there, but will also come out there. Indeed it could be dangerous. At least with regards to the physical chakra, which is one of the reasons I'm learning t'ai ji. I have often thought yoga would be better, I don't know. Actually, more and more, I've been thinking that taking acting classes might help. My relationship with my sort-of-girlfriend is ok. But since there has been no physical interaction, it has just become a ritual of me sending her a text every day and her replying. We also talk on the phone about once a week, and meet up about once or twice a month. It is good. I like having someone there. Anyway, onward. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 20, 2017, 04:56:34 AM
Had a dream last night where I looked at P and unsurprisingly this morning I am having thoughts of doing it in waking life too for the first time really since the New Year. Reading this forum was helpful at the start but is also a bit unhelpful because once I've stopped, reading it keeps reminding me of the old struggle. I really don't know whether it is helpful to document every urge or thought relating to P. It becomes a constant reminder of what we're trying to get away from. I think at the beginning it is helpful, but once one is making progress it is better to start writing and focusing on other things. I see the reboot as a whole process of regaining one's life and writing about other areas where you want to make progress is probably more helpful, once the initial stages of separating from P have got under way. So I am on day fifty one. Other than hard mode, the only other bit of discipline that I am sticking to is not consuming dairy, eggs or coffee. I need to do some maths this week in preparation for teaching and I need to start doing my morning exercises and meditation again. I should also go to my t'ai ji classes. Doing these three things will take me back to where I was before I tried to stop smoking. Perhaps I am seeing it the wrong way, not so much going back, but a new beginning. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 20, 2017, 01:07:17 PM
Today has been tough. This is partly because I'm not doing anything and can't motivate myself to do anything either. I think it has to do with the dopamine reward system. In the past, when I got into a rut, I would PMO, then after I hit rock bottom I would get a burst of energy to start doing something with my life. This pattern has been part of my life for years. It's like I needed PMO and the resulting struggle against it to motivate myself to do anything. I think this was how I dealt with my anhedonia, which was of course caused by PMO to begin with. I really need to motivate myself. I need to get back on a disciplined routine. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Mikel on February 21, 2017, 02:39:16 AM
I see what you mean. It's about trying to maintain that motivation when the rock bottom isn't there anymore. This is progress in recovery. You are not in the dark hole you once were, now it's time keep what you've got and improve on that.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 24, 2017, 12:27:48 PM
Thanks Mikel. Been having mild psychotic symptoms these past few days or so. Managed to do my morning exercises today, but woke up at four-thirty am and have been smoking a lot since then. My teaching went well, now I have to prepare for the next lesson. My sort-of girlfriend's phone hasn't been working for a week, or maybe she's got fed up with me, I don't know. Since I'm not really in a relationship at the moment, met up with an older woman, and felt comfortable enough to put my arm around her, which is rare for me. I'm not trying to sleep with all the girls out there, I'd be happy with just one. My main priority is not relapsing in psychosis, getting rid of these mild symptoms as well, and getting back to my daily routine of doing something constructive with my time. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 27, 2017, 07:00:26 AM
Will do my preparation for my mathematics tuition today. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 02, 2017, 11:30:00 AM
Well my mathematics student is not talking to me for some reason :( It is very strange, as far as I am aware I have done nothing wrong. Likewise my girlfriend, who's phone has been going straight to answerphone for the past three weeks. I fear she is blocking my calls, so I guess it is over. Had some urges just now, it has been over two months, this is the year. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on March 02, 2017, 08:15:56 PM
Likewise my girlfriend, who's phone has been going straight to answerphone for the past three weeks. I fear she is blocking my calls, so I guess it is over.

It likely is over, I'm afraid, Georgos. I know it's tough but you have to be realistic: if you are unable to be fully into a relationship, unable to have sex or be intimate, it's going to be hard to find somebody. Your girlfriend probably was waiting for you to be really into her, but you played it pretty cool due to protecting yourself. I think it's worth thinking some more about why you were so unwilling to explore this relationship further than you did? Do you have any regrets about not trying harder with it? Would you do things differently if you had your time again?
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 03, 2017, 11:52:40 AM
Thanks Malando, my teeth are perfectly healthy, but terribly stained, I think that is the main reason she was so put off kissing me, plus the breath.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on March 03, 2017, 02:07:44 PM
Thanks Malando, my teeth are perfectly healthy, but terribly stained, I think that is the main reason she was so put off kissing me, plus the breath.

Is there nothing you can do about that problem? I mean, there are teeth whitening kits that can make your teeth a lot better. Brushing your teeth and especially the tongue can combat bad breath. I suspect it's more your anxiety about intimacy more than about her. Maybe that's why you didn't solve the problem with your teeth/breath? It gives you a reason not to put yourself out there.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 05, 2017, 04:15:05 AM
Thanks Malando, I've never really worried about my teeth, it's not the issue, I was just trying to think why she never kissed me. I have performance anxiety, not about actually being physical enough to perform, but about the nature of sexual interactions. Can I be funny when I need to be funny? Can I make a move at the right time? Can I present myself as successful enough? etc. etc. The answer to all these things in my mind is "no".
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 24, 2017, 02:12:07 PM
Ok so over 83 days and still going strong. In fact I am hesitant to come back to the forum because I don't want to remind myself of the past. However, I've been thinking about it quite a lot the past couple of days, not urges at all, but rather just becoming conscious again of counting after forgetting all about it for a while. The problem is that I am not doing anything. I spent about a month socialising and that was good, but now I want to improve my life and do something productive again. And usually failing at abstaining from PMO is the kick up the arse that I use to motivate me. So instead of that I'm going to write here. The main thing I want to do is some maths every day because I really want to see if I can tutor some undergraduates come September. I also think I should go back to meditating in the morning and maybe some press ups. Finally, I've been assigned someone to help me quit smoking and they're going to proscribe me champax so we'll see how that goes. I'm writing this, but I still haven't committed in my mind to when I'm going to start all this. Will keep you updated. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on March 24, 2017, 07:18:14 PM
Well done, Georgos. I'm proud of you, mate!

I'm curious, tell me about your love for maths? What sort of maths do you enjoy the most? How does maths make you feel when you are doing it well? What is the holy grail of maths for you?
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 29, 2017, 11:16:56 AM
Hi Malando, sorry for the delay in replying. In truth it is because I no longer have easy answers to your questions. In the past I used to wax lyrically about how beautiful mathematics is and I did genuinely used to think it was the ultimate thing to be doing. But these days I struggle to see the point in anything really. Mathematics, being one of the pinnacles of human civilization in some people's eyes seems something to do that is worth something. But as I said, with the negative symptoms of schizophrenia that I have, namely anhedonia, more and more I wonder if I just feel that doing it will give me some sort of validation from the outside world. This sort of attitude started with my PMO habit. I used to feel so ashamed about myself, that I'd think of trying to do the most impressive thing possible to make up for it. Don't get me wrong, I do get some pleasure from being able to understand mathematical theorems, and I do find the concept of infinity in mathematics fascinating from a philosophical perspective, indeed I spend most of my time philosophising, and I find mathematical thinking deeply connected to this. But I do wonder if it is more about trying to get validation to make up for my shame, than actual enjoyment. Then again, most work sucks, and I'd rather be working as a mathematician than most other things I can think of. By the way, the girl I was in contact with whose phone stopped working, is back in contact with me again, so that is good :) Anyway, over 88 days now, technically I'm past three months counting from the days I stopped before the new year, but from the new year it is two or three days to go to the three month mark. Wish me luck. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on March 30, 2017, 09:20:17 AM
But I do wonder if it is more about trying to get validation to make up for my shame, than actual enjoyment. Then again, most work sucks, and I'd rather be working as a mathematician than most other things I can think of.
The thing is, most people could be accused of doing things to validate themselves - it's a logical way to bolster your self-esteem. Not all things we do for psychological reasons involve enjoyment. If you can get any sort of satisfaction from something and it has the benefit of validating yourself, it's worth doing. Don't hold yourself to standards that other people don't. Your first order of business as somebody who has faced a lot of challenges in having schizophrenia and a P-addiction is to build/rebuild whatever you can to gain a sense of efficacy, pride, validation, confidence. Don't be splitting hairs on what is truly worthy in a philosophical sense. If it feels like it might offer you something, go ahead and do it - unless it causes you unacceptable damage. Addiction strips a person of a lot of self-belief and pride. It's quite common to have to go through a certain amount of "fake it till you make it" while your brain recalibrate itself. This anhedonia you speak of is part of that. Sometimes you have to live in a way that feels a bit disembodied and not quite real or authentic because you have lost touch with what is actually good for you. So it's like your brain has to issue some executive orders that override the primitive brain that seeks easy pleasure and rejects everything else, and make sure that you do things that you know are part of rebuilding normal thought patterns and behaviours. All addicts must face this. It is not an instant process to recalibrate your brain. Of course, you also have your schizophrenia to manage, but it will be a lot easier to stay on course with that without having to carry an addiction too.

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By the way, the girl I was in contact with whose phone stopped working, is back in contact with me again, so that is good :)
That's great, Georgos. Regardless of what the nature of this relationship is in the long run, it's definitely good for you to have some social interaction and company. You don't want to isolate yourself.

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Anyway, over 88 days now, technically I'm past three months counting from the days I stopped before the new year, but from the new year it is two or three days to go to the three month mark. Wish me luck. Thank you.
That's a fantastic achievement! I do wish you all the luck in the world.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 31, 2017, 08:36:24 AM
Been spending too much time thinking about my progress and how many days before I hit my previous record on Reboot Nation or my all time record of five months. It's not healthy and the preoccupation, going over and over the same thoughts, adds to the chance of a relapse. Not sure if posting here will help. The problem is I am going through a period of intellectual as well as emotional anhedonia. Basically I don't know what is worth doing intellectually, let alone emotionally. I need to just force myself to do something. It is the start of a new month tomorrow so that would be the ideal time to start. Thank you Malando for your kind and helpful comments once again, I really do appreciate you taking time to be there for me, and I notice you're doing great yourself. Keep it up everyone. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 31, 2017, 03:35:52 PM
Ok so I've been reading some of the other long term rebooters' journals and a lot of them seem hung up about sex, particularly, as you would expect, those that started rebooting because of PIE. I'd like to say something about this. Having only had sex twice in my life at the age of thirty three (I'm now thirty seven) I'm actually feeling very liberated by how much better I feel on hard mode. I'm used to not having sex, but I'm not used to feeling not ashamed of my sexual habits. I even had the opportunity to have sex a couple of weeks ago (not with the girl I am regularly in touch with) and I turned it down. In fact I felt a bit guilty about this as the lady really wanted it, and I kind of led her on initially before chickening out, but the point I'm trying to make is that you shouldn't worry about whether or not you feel the need to have to sex, you can lead a perfectly fulfilling life without it. I'm not making any value judgement, there is nothing wrong with sex, but neither is it necessary. If you are feeling that it is so necessary then that is probably part and parcel of your addiction. Of course if you want to have it and you can't because of PIE that is a problem, but if you find that you don't want to have it then don't worry and whatever you do don't look to it for meaning in your life, that is one of the things you were doing before with your addiction. As part of my treatment for schizophrenia I used to attend a group therapy session and we spent a lot of time discussing how one finds meaning in life. This is a very vexing problem, and most people confront it at some point in their lives, particularly if they are overcoming a mental health problem, which addiction is. I have my own problems with finding meaning and purpose in life, but thankfully, sex or lack of it, is no longer the problem for me it once was. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 11, 2017, 01:24:40 PM
So I'm over a hundred days (today is day 101 of the New Year) and I'm generally feeling good. This might be partly because they've put me on some new medication (on top of what I was taking already) and one of its actions is as an anti-depressant. However, I'm still wasting my days, and I'm still smoking. Is there anything wrong with this? Looking back at my diaries over the years the same things keep coming up, do something with my life, give up smoking and stop PMOing. I'm succeeding in the last one, as I said about fifteen weeks now and doing fine, so maybe I shouldn't be so hard on myself, and perhaps, also, this isn't the place to deal with the other two. Rebooting should be about the whole person. Things are going well. I don't feel any urge to deal with smoking and doing something productive at the moment, however I worry that if I don't start to address these latter two issues they'll hit me hard in the future. Thoughts are welcome. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 13, 2017, 10:52:11 AM
Over 103 days and the next thing I need to do is deal with my smoking. I'm going to try and beat my record of not smoking in my flat (which was 8 days last time I tried on Feb 6th). I know this is probably the wrong way of going about it, trying to control an addiction rather than making the conscious decision to leave it in the past. I know this, but I tried to stop cold turkey today and only managed four hours. The degree to which I'm addicted to tobacco is really pathetic. I need counselling, but it's so wrapped up in my psychosis I don't know where to begin. The doctor hasn't got back to me on the champix yet, and he promised me that I would be prescribed it in tandem with some anti-smoking counselling, so I guess I should follow that up. However I'm worried that the counsellor won't be trained in dealing with patients with schizophrenia. Like I said, though, I should follow it up. So, from today I'll not smoke in my flat, at least for over 8 days, hopefully never again. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 14, 2017, 07:49:05 AM
So day 1 of not smoking in my flat going well. It really is easy when I'm in the right frame of mind. The main difference between my attempts at dealing with PMO addiction and smoking addiction is that I'm still trying to control the latter than really trying to stop. I say, I'll stop for a few hours, or stop in certain places or at certain times. This sets up a feeling of looking forward to the next cigarette when the restrictions are over. With PMO I was always determine to stop afterwards, swearing never again, so I never looked forward to it, the addiction just sort of crept up on me and struck when I was weakest. Yesterday I was thinking how addiction is always an act of rebellion. I don't want to get religious, but one of the steps in the twelve step program is recognising and surrendering to a higher power. That higher power is the power that stops you from relapsing. The rebellion comes in because we want to feel like it is ourselves, or maybe our ego, that is in control and has the power. Specific addictions have specific forms of rebellion as well. With PMO it is a rebellion against the power of sexual energy, an attempt to control it. With cigarettes I think it is a rebellion against overshadowing thoughts. In both cases it is only once you surrender to the higher powers that you really start to live free from the destructive nature of the addiction. It is destructive because the rebellion is egotistical. The way to deal with higher powers and get them to respect you is to love them. With PMO our ego is trying to claim credit for sexual energy, with cigarettes, I think my ego is trying to claim credit for the energy of thoughts. Yesterday I began to realise that all insights are really revelations, they do not originate with our ego, yet my ego was always claiming credit for the insights I had and feeling pleased with itself. I smoked because my ego jealously wanted to keep this pleasure for itself. This narcissism runs very deep in me, indeed this whole post is an example of how much I like to express and indulge in insights. Even now I don't feel ready to give up such a pleasure. However in order to give up smoking this is what I need to do, to love the source of these insights rather than the insights themselves. Anyway, onward. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 15, 2017, 07:57:21 AM
Over 105 days no PMO, 2 days no smoking in my flat. Felt compelled to try and cut my smoking down even more this morning, had to tell myself that was a bad idea, not because I don't want to cut down even more, but because I don't want to fail. I think I'll wait a good few weeks of no smoking in my flat before I try anything more drastic. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 23, 2017, 04:19:09 AM
So my reboot continues and I've managed 10 days not smoking in my flat. The problem is I've started getting up at the crack of dawn and going outside to have a cigarette, this disrupts my mental state as I need sleep to remain sane. My libido is really low, which is a good thing because it stops me interacting with girls in a masochistic way, however my relationship has been going through a rocky patch as I went on a date with someone else and couldn't discern the appropriate hierarchy. I've been quite happy just keeping in touch with my girlfriend, so I guess I went on the date for the wrong reasons. Anyway, hopefully I'll get more sleep now. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on April 23, 2017, 05:35:35 AM
So my reboot continues and I've managed 10 days not smoking in my flat. The problem is I've started getting up at the crack of dawn and going outside to have a cigarette, this disrupts my mental state as I need sleep to remain sane. My libido is really low, which is a good thing because it stops me interacting with girls in a masochistic way, however my relationship has been going through a rocky patch as I went on a date with someone else and couldn't discern the appropriate hierarchy. I've been quite happy just keeping in touch with my girlfriend, so I guess I went on the date for the wrong reasons. Anyway, hopefully I'll get more sleep now. Thank you.

The way I see it, if you go on a date with somebody else, you don't really have a girlfriend. You are not exclusive so it's not really a girlfriend/boyfriend situation. Presumably she is also free to go on dates with other men? If so, at most it seems you have a very casual relationship that is not particularly serious. Maybe this is better for you at the moment. Are you concealing this reality from her? Does she tell you she is going on dates too? I think you just have to be honest with each other about what you are doing. Don't call her your  girlfriend unless she understands everything and is agreeable to it. A real girlfriend is somebody you see often and you have some physical aspect to the relationship. Otherwise it's a friend. I don't think you want to date other people when you are serious about your girlfriend/boyfriend.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 23, 2017, 07:10:46 AM
Malando, I'm not religious, there are such things as polygamy if marriage is your thing, though it is illegal in Western countries, or polyamory which besides circumventing the law also allows for both parties to love other people. This is not a fetish of mine, I am interested in real love, sex is a means to an end, not that I doubt it can be pleasurable, I was trying to put a positive spin on the reality by calling her my girlfriend, she did say that I was free to go on other dates, and I also asked her occasionally if she had any dates with anyone else lined up, however, we pretty much exclusively talk to each other as far as I know. I went on the date partly out of intellectual fantasy and partly out of minor frustration, but everyone is still friends. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on April 23, 2017, 10:37:49 AM
Malando, I'm not religious, there are such things as polygamy if marriage is your thing, though it is illegal in Western countries, or polyamory which besides circumventing the law also allows for both parties to love other people. This is not a fetish of mine, I am interested in real love, sex is a means to an end, not that I doubt it can be pleasurable, I was trying to put a positive spin on the reality by calling her my girlfriend, she did say that I was free to go on other dates, and I also asked her occasionally if she had any dates with anyone else lined up, however, we pretty much exclusively talk to each other as far as I know. I went on the date partly out of intellectual fantasy and partly out of minor frustration, but everyone is still friends. Thank you.

Well, I did ask how open you all being and you have answered that question, so thank you. I think you raised the ideas of polyamory/polygamy as an abstract argument because I don't believe you actually desire that at all. After all, you have pointed out numerous times that coping with a relationship with one person was hard enough - much less trying to manage more than one! As long as everything is out in the open, I have no issue with what you are doing. The reason I stress the importance of openness is because concealment and secrecy is at the heart of porn addiction too. As recovering addicts, being honest and open in all aspects of life is a crucial part of recovery, in my opinion. Any dabbling with concealment/secrecy plays into the addict mentality and increases the risk of keep those tendencies alive. Anyway, you can disregard what I said since it doesn't apply to you. Cheers.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 25, 2017, 08:08:02 AM
Got up at around 9am today which is generally enough sleep for me to stay sane. I go to bed at around 10pm, unless I wake up early in which case I tend to stay up all night. Debating with myself when to take the next step in smoking. Trying to control smoking sends me crazy, but stopping is not an option at this time either. I no longer smoke in my flat. I've felt a lot of pressure to take the next step, which will probably be not smoking for an hour after I get up. Need to pick a date for when I'm going to do this and stick to it. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 27, 2017, 12:33:22 PM
Got up shortly before 11am today which is good for staying sane, although yesterday I got up just before 5am so was still a little unbalanced from then. It's been two weeks of not smoking in my flat, and over 117 days of reboot so far. As of tomorrow I'm going to start doing push ups in the morning before smoking again. Looking back at my diaries, the longest streak of push ups I've managed is about two weeks, and most of those were done after smoking not before. So I'll try and break my record. I'm going to aim to go an hour without smoking after I get up once I've completed a month of not smoking in my flat, so the push ups will act as an intermediary step. My new medication is really working, keeping me much calmer in the face of schizophrenic thoughts. I don't panic or get paranoid as much at all, but I do get spaced out. Been having weeks of religious experiences and dreams now. My atheism has been knocked on several occasions, and staying philosophical has been difficult. The problem is, if I simply surrender and accept God then I'm going to end up a dervish or pilgrim, homeless, relying on handouts for food, and wondering aimlessly about in continuous prayer. I'm scared of this. Work is also a fear since the reason for it is the same, to teach humility. I am happy the way things are, I want to focus on my plan to give up smoking, teach and study maths, and generally live an intellectual life. It gives me comfort. Stepping out of my comfort zone in such a big way is really not an option for me at the moment as I am too imbalanced in favour of my mind, and any drastic change would break me. Anyway, slowly, slowly, my reboot continues. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 28, 2017, 03:16:10 PM
Years of learning to control my sexual urges has conditioned me to do the same with real women. I have been unable to give appropriate sexual responses, and have always resorted to selling my insecurities in the end. Today I got up at five again. Am doing my push ups first thing in the morning before smoking, but getting up at five means smoking more. I have to be a bit selfish. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 29, 2017, 01:56:16 PM
So over 17 weeks no PMO, day 2 of doing push ups before smoking in the morning and over two weeks of not smoking in my flat. Reboot continues. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 04, 2017, 11:11:02 AM
So a week of push ups before smoking in the morning, over 124 days of hard mode, and three weeks of not smoking in my flat. I'm a bit annoyed because I just wrote a long post about my issues with sex and managed to delete it by hitting refresh. I'll try and address it again. Basically the thrust of it was that years of PMO abuse has conditioned me to view sex as a kind of _process_, almost mechanical. When sexual desire hits me, I simply switched on my computer, clicked through some searches and PMO'd. At no point in this _process_ did I actually interact with another human being. This conditioning has left me unable to engage sexually with women, even flirting, and I don't know how to go about addressing this. I'm not physically unattractive and I'm reasonably good at being social, so that is not the problem, but I've been on so many dates and they all end the same way without me seeming to make any progress in losing my conditioned responses. This latest relationship, which in some ways was the best I've ever done since it lasted so many months, was completely non-sexual and more about companionship. However, there was very little intimacy, just the feeling of comfort that I had someone to text good night to before I went to bed. I don't know whether I should have brought up my history of PMO abuse, I wonder if however painful talking about it might have been for me, it would have allowed us to approach the problem together, as it stands, I seem to have sabotaged it, by thinking that sex _should_ be part of the relationship, rather than letting it develop naturally, though after so many months, it seemed likely that that would not happen. Anyway, thoughts are welcome. Thank you,
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 05, 2017, 11:50:45 AM
So here is another observation. Real sex does not happen immediately you see someone you are sexually attracted to. However, with me, I have conditioned myself to instantly get sexual stimulation, via MO. Thus when I see someone I am sexually attracted to in real life, my initial reaction is necessarily to dampen down my conditioning and fight my urges. In other words, the sexual energy does not transmute into correct behaviour, but is suppressed and rebuked. What sexual energy should be transmuted into is bravery and good humour. However, I am not conditioned for that, instead if I let it flow through my body I am led to MO. This is not just a question of wrong thoughts, it is about the whole energy system of the body. At present I can only hope that by giving my mind and body a rest from sexual activity I can reset it and naturally develop the correct responses. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 06, 2017, 02:19:12 PM
I think I mentioned before that to some extent I fit the definition of "love shy" that was proposed by a slightly wacky psychologist, Dr. Brian Gilmartin. Basically he identified a sub-group of males who had sexual behaviour patterns that were essentially corresponding to stereotypical female ones whilst still being attracted to women. As an example, I know that one of the things I am looking for is someone to look after me. rather than someone to look after. Another example is that I want the woman to pursue me, rather than me pursue her. Such men typically are virgins into their late thirties or more. A girl friend of mine said that these attitudes were actually very masculine, and writing it now, I wonder if that is not the case, they are traditional masculine desires. Perhaps they are desires from a by gone era and the modern world has changed. Something is wrong. Observing myself today, if I smile with genuineness at a girl in the street then she always smiles back, but if I smile with the idea of testing whether or not she will smile back then she never does. So is this a matter of faith and doubt. I can get smiles, taking the next step is the hard part, but is that simply because I am not genuine in doing so. Years of PMO has made me look for a woman who will entertain me with sexual behaviour. I doubt such women exist in real life, and I am not genuine in looking for any other kind of relationship. Indeed the only other kind of relationship I am interested in is a mothering relationship and I already have one of those. As I said, something is wrong. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 07, 2017, 11:25:51 AM
Over 127 days hard mode, 24 days not smoking in my flat, 10 days push ups before smoking in the morning, and now two days of not smoking until I get to the bottom of my road in the morning. My plan was/is to go an hour without smoking in the morning every day as of the 11th, but I found myself taking the baby step of not smoking until I got to the bottom of my road each morning yesterday, and to be honest, even that was proving tough. Actually, it's quite easy, but if I think about the cigarette I'm going to have when I get there, then it feels like a huge effort. I know all this sounds pathetic, but I really fear the withdrawals of cigarettes, and I really fear not being a smoker. Reading back over what I wrote yesterday, I'm not sure it's really me. Of course I want a relationship that is mutual. It's just sex for me has been pretty much exclusively PMO. Also, what with my schizophrenia, finding someone I can have a mutual understanding with is hard. I need a woman who can approach me just right. I need to learn how to approach women in a genuine way. I'm not in a rush. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 09, 2017, 01:19:09 AM
So over 129 days of hard mode and still going, however my 11 day streak of doing push ups before I smoke in the morning came to an end today. I woke up at five and though I didn't smoke in the flat I did go straight outside and smoke. Needless to say I didn't make it to the bottom of my road either. I don't feel bad, am more annoyed at waking up so early. However tomorrow I need to get back to not smoking until I get to the bottom of the road and after I've done my push ups. Everything is fine so long as I sleep well. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 12, 2017, 04:23:11 AM
Managed two days of not smoking until I got to the bottom of my road, but today I woke up at six and smoked first thing, although I did manage to do push ups first. Getting to not smoking for an hour after I wake up every day is going to be tough, sustaining it even tougher. I shall do it however. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 14, 2017, 10:42:15 AM
Got up at six again yesterday, so that was no good :( However this morning I managed to get even further before smoking in the morning. I need to see if I can do this for at least a week uninterrupted, although that depends largely on my sleep. Getting used to not smoking in the morning is the priority for me after finishing with PMO for good. Ideally I want to be able to not smoke until after 12pm every day, something I've only ever managed once. At the moment I'm building up to an hour, then two hours, then three hours, and then I should be there. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 15, 2017, 02:13:15 PM
Over 135 days of hard mode and two days of not smoking in the morning until I get to the bus stop (about a twenty minute walk from my flat). I need to see if I can keep up the abstaining from smoking in the morning for at least two weeks before I increase it again. I know I can do more, but it is consistency that I am looking for, I don't want to just do several hours for one day only and cave the next day as I have in the past, but rather make it part of my routine. Slowly, slowly I shall give up smoking. With regards to women, I am told by the doctors that I have high levels of prolactin caused by the anti-psychotic medication that I am on, and this often causes a lowered libido. However, staying sane is definitely my priority, as even if I had a high libido, if I am crazy there is no chance of bonding with a girl. Indeed I went to a bar a couple of evenings ago and started to sense psychotic things in my head, though it wasn't a relapse as such, just questionable sensations. Twice I thought of going up to two separate pairs of girls and trying to chat them up, and both times, I chickened out. My head filled with doubts, not just about rejection, but whether I could be funny, energetic, engaging, etc. I guess I shouldn't be so hard on myself, going to a bar on your own and chatting up women is hard for any guy. The truth is, I had other doubts as well. Was I just interested because they looked sexy or attractive? What if I didn't like their personality. Did I even want sex? Or should I even be contemplating sex at the first encounter? All these things contribute to my inability to meet girls on a sexual level. The biggest thing is lack of belief. Anyway, I'm in no rush. These things will improve over time. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 17, 2017, 02:10:05 PM
Only managed to get to the bottom of my road without smoking this morning, didn't manage to get to the bus stop. Have to do better tomorrow. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 19, 2017, 11:21:17 AM
Two days of getting to the bus stop without smoking so far. But... and its a terrible but... today after over 140 days of hard mode, I PMOd. I don't want to make a big thing about it. Going out for a walk afterwards I felt the old anxiety return. It's a little slip in what already has been a great year. Hopefully it will be my only slip. Don't know what else to say really. PMOing once every 140 days is far from being an addict, neurotic maybe, but not an addict. Of course, the addictive behaviour could return, but only if I let it. There are several things that I need to address in tandem with my reboot. They are all part of the journey. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on May 19, 2017, 01:16:56 PM
Two days of getting to the bus stop without smoking so far. But... and its a terrible but... today after over 140 days of hard mode, I PMOd. I don't want to make a big thing about it. Going out for a walk afterwards I felt the old anxiety return. It's a little slip in what already has been a great year. Hopefully it will be my only slip. Don't know what else to say really. PMOing once every 140 days is far from being an addict, neurotic maybe, but not an addict. Of course, the addictive behaviour could return, but only if I let it. There are several things that I need to address in tandem with my reboot. They are all part of the journey. Thank you.

I hate to burst your bubble, Georgos, but you are still an addict. I've been clean for 311 days and I'm still an addict. Just because I'm  better at resisting porn, doesn't mean that I'm cured. The fact that you relapsed shows that this thing can get you when you least expect it. That's what addiction is like. Just like an alcoholic is ok as long as he stays away from alcohol, but he doesn't say, "I'm no longer an addict because I quit drinking". He's no longer a drinker because he's an alcoholic.

Same for us: we decide not to PMO because we are addicts, we don't cease to be addicts just because we stop PMO. We both know that if explicit images were put in front of us, it would stir up our addiction and we'd be in danger of relapse.

As much as addicts like to kid themselves that they can be cured, it's not true - there will always be vulnerability around the thing of addiction. Management and discipline around the object of addiction will always be important. A smart man doesn't get complacent. A smart man remembers his vulnerabilities.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 19, 2017, 02:55:25 PM
Hi Malando, I'm really happy you're still reading my posts :) You are right about the addiction. However, some context, a typical porn addict spends a large number of hours every day engaged in the activity of PMO, I honestly haven't done that for years, indeed for several years now its been brief sessions between once a week and once a month. I honestly don't think the best way to describe this scenario is addiction, I believe it is better to think of it as wrong wiring with regards to how I get my sexual satisfaction. In other words, the natural impulses for sexual stimulation are being played out through the wrong direction. If I was having sex as frequently as I was PMOing, you'd say I had a healthy sex life, or if anything, too little sex. There is a very important reasons that I am making this distinction between addiction and wrong wiring, in that it affects how I reboot with regards to having a healthy sex life. The act of always trying to control my sexual responses carries over to when I interact with women. This is why I use the word, neurosis. It is a catch 22, in order to rewire, I have to stop PMO, but in stopping PMO I am wiring my brain to resist and control sexual impulses, which inhibits me with women. I am not saying this is the case for everyone. However, I believe some guys who have had no problem engaging in real sexual relationships in the past whilst PMOing are now finding that with the learning to control PMO comes an inhibition with regards to real sex. Talking about it as an addiction is useful and has its place, breathing is not an addiction, but cigarette smoking is because it is the wrong kind of breathing, similarly healthy sexual activity is not an addiction but PMO as the only or main source of sexual satisfaction is. However, in my case, I believe I have got to the stage where the chemical addiction is not the main problem, its the psychology. This does not mean I will be complacent, putting as much distance between PMO and my daily routine is the fundamental first step towards having a healthy sex life. However, I need to really engage with the rewiring process more proactively as well, perhaps through therapy. I have read on other journals some of the guys saying that after 90 days hard mode, one should really start to relax and engage in real sexual activity. This simply has not been an option for me because for almost all my life I have found it impossible to have real sexual interaction. I am not using this as an excuse, I actually prefer "monk mode" to PMO. I feel much more serene and settled in my daily life, but I can't help but feel that until I'm experiencing real healthy sex on a regular basis, I haven't actually recovered. Anyway, as always, your thoughts are most welcome. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 20, 2017, 05:23:12 AM
Ok, so got a little further than yesterday without smoking in the morning, actually got on the bus :) Been thinking more about yesterday. What happened. First off I wanted to know if there was anything new on the P sites. Of course there wasn't. Same shit really. Not that that stopped me PMOing. However I think the real problem started when I went to the bar and thought about chatting up some women. My failure from that was where it started. I read the following review of the book "The Love-Shy Survival Guide" by Talmer Shockley which I'm thinking of getting:

"Speak to any true love shy.

They are suffering from a delusional/fantasy disorder.
As Gilmartin wrote, they would rather be with a pretty girl than have a good sex life. His book is 700 pages long, however I think that line is one of the most important things to understand.

Also, many love shy men would not be better or cured if they actually got with the perfect girl, as Gilmartin wrote, because they enjoy the fantasies and daydreams so much more. Some prefer being the way they are, alone and dreaming.

Love shyness is a form of OCD, fantasy/delusional disorder, and normal shyness combined. That's it.

I urge people to read Gilmartin's book to really understand it better."

Now from what I know, many of those who are identified as "love-shy" are quite extreme, and I wouldn't necessarily say I am in the same category, however these things are a continuum, and I definitely identify with what the reviewer wrote. In my case it is slightly more complicated, whilst on the one hand, my PMO abuse has led me to only want to have sex with the perfect girl, my morals tell me that all girls have their own beauty in one way or another. As far as enjoying fantasy and daydreams more than the reality of sexual relationships, I can relate to that as well. The OCD is the perpetual tension between fantasy/delusion and wanting to engage in real sex. I haven't read either Shockley's book or Gilmartin's. Apparently Gilmartin's advice on how to transcend this condition involves using prostitutes combined with therapy, something which I reject on moral grounds. However I can see why he would say that, in that rewiring requires actual sexual experience. At any rate, with regards to my PMO addiction, I think I've identified a trigger. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 20, 2017, 12:07:38 PM
Despite still feeling anxiety around other people after yesterday's relapse, I had urges today. I don't deny there is a chemical component, but the point is I manage to ignore it. The psychological problems have remained though. Problems to do with how I relate to success and failure in my life. Problems to do with how I relate myself to others and others to myself. Problems to do with how I relate to fantasy and delusion. Until I resolve these problems, or perhaps a better way of stating it, reframe them, I will always be single and stuck in this rut that I find myself in. Leaving PMO in the past is one half of the solution, reframing these other psychological problems is the other. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on May 20, 2017, 01:27:21 PM
I think the author of that book is potentially putting excessive emphasis on what seems to be his central theme for his book. The idea that there is a "love shy" archetype that follows this delusional/fantasy profile ignores the most blindingly simple alternative: that some love-shy people are so hopelessly lacking self-worth and self-confidence that they are convinced they can't have anybody, let alone a perfect girl. In fact, from my observations in life talking with people very low on confidence with dating, it is very rare that they are fixated on perfection. They will often say they just wish they had somebody, anybody who would love them, want them or spend time with them. I won't deny that such a thing as this book describes is a real thing some people have, but the make a generalisation like "Speak to any true love shy...." - it smacks of a demigod aspect on behalf of the author that he must unite the issues of the "love shy" under his own paradigm. But hey, you can't sell books and distinguish yourself as a writer/analyst if you admit that crippling self-confidence problems are at the heart of most "love shy" people's problems. Oh no - you have to focus on the exotic minority which can generate a book that turns heads. It fills me with pause about this author.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 21, 2017, 05:47:35 AM
Hi Malando, the book is explicitly about a minority the psychologist has identified and labelled "love-shy". It is not meant for those who are just shy, but those who exhibit the symptoms detailed. Whether I fit into this category I don't know, as I said, some of the examples are quite extreme. However I do identify with the idea that it is not shyness per se that stops me from having relationships but fantasy/delusional disorder and OCD. First off, I definitely suffer from fantasy/delusional disorder in my general life, being diagnosed with schizophrenia. This may not be what the author meant or was referring to, but it is a strong component of what goes wrong when I try to flirt, or think about chatting up a woman. I read things into the environment, over heard conversations in the room, or if I manage to actually get into a conversation with a woman, I read hidden meanings into her words. All of these hidden associations correspond to certain fantasies or delusions I have in my head. PMO definitely contributed greatly to this state of affairs, not just in shaping the delusions and fantasies, but in making me look for hidden meanings, having lived a double secret life for so long filled with paranoia about my addiction being found out. With regards to looking for the perfect girl, I too would say I just want someone to love me, but when it comes to reality, the interactions I seem to want do not seem to exist. This is one component of the OCD, with PMO you are constantly looking for the perfect image, moving quickly on or through images until you O. I think the inability to do this in real interactions, where you have to spend time, working with one individual, building a relationship, and also, are not in control of the direction the relationship will take, is something that is alien to my PMO abuse induced wiring, at least as far as sexual interactions go. I say all this, because, I am not shy, except when it comes to sexual interactions, and in those cases it is much more of a phobia than endearing shyness. I probably need to step out of my comfort zone more, however I think that doing that and the self-sabotaging failures that generally result from my negative expectations, is a trigger for returning to PMO. I'm definitely getting better, and a large part of that is down to putting distance between my self and PMO. There's still enough time for me to go six months this year, which has been a long standing aim of mine for many years now. Hopefully after that I will be finished with this disease for good. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 22, 2017, 11:02:29 AM
So five days of not smoking until I get to the bus stop, need to do at least 14 before I increase as even today I almost caved. But of course that is not the real reason I am here. I had some thoughts of PMO today, probably triggered by my latest attempts at dating and of course my recent slip. Happily ignored them though and I am determined to make it another 180 days straight on top of the last 140 odd days I managed. Good luck everyone. Cheers.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 23, 2017, 09:03:23 AM
Failed at smoking this morning, I won't go into the details, but I have to do better tomorrow. Still need to go two weeks getting at least until the bus stop. I have another date coming up which is good, however it has made me think of PMO again. There is a big difference in my wiring between finding someone who is a companion and fulfilling my sexual arousal. I absolutely don't want a companion who behaves like the fantasy women in PMO, it would scare me and there would be no empathy, yet privately viewing these fantasies are the only thing that seem to release dopamine in my brain. Worse, if a woman looks sexually arousal inducing (I'm not talking about beauty) then I associate her with the fantasies and thus can't approach her. The woman I'm going on a date with looks beautiful, but she only mildly sexually arouses me, and so my mind has returned to PMO. So far I am managing to ignore the urges. Long may this continue. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 01, 2017, 02:41:45 AM
So it's the start of a new month. There are seven months (including this one) till the end of the year. I will make it. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 04, 2017, 10:09:23 AM
I will not lie, I have been finding it tough to get started again following my slip :( Today is the fourth day of the new month and I am still PMO free. Urges, however, are taking time to become a thing of the past. I will make it to the end of the year and beyond. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 07, 2017, 10:26:20 AM
So I talked myself into PMO whilst setting my sights on finding a girlfriend. In fact it was avoiding having to deal with replying to some girls on a dating website that led me to act out. There is a world of difference between a real sexual relationship with a real other person and PMO. I chose PMO because it was the easy option. Clearly I am an addict. I have to realise that I will never get the same experience of PMO by having a girlfriend or even multiple girlfriends. The two are simply not comparable. Indeed I think I did realise this and that's how I talked myself back into PMO. It is not just realising it, it is coming to terms with it, accepting it. I need to realise that I am not looking for a girlfriend to substitute for PMO, I am doing two separate things, living without PMO and finding a girlfriend to fulfil the needs of companionship and intimacy, two things PMO does not provide. In other words, I need to come to terms with the fact that having a girlfriend will not replace the PMO experience as I know it, it will be a whole different experience incomparable with PMO. I should not be looking for a girlfriend to satisfy my PMO urges just as I should not be PMOing to satisfy my desire for a girlfriend, they are different things. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: KittyHawk on June 07, 2017, 12:09:20 PM
Hi Georgos,

I don't remember what your experience with real partner sex is so far. So I am replying just to your latest post.
Few years back, I was really busy relocating to another country. As a result, I almost didn't have time for P. I did only quick MO once in a few days. After circa 7 months, my PIED almost disappeared and I had normal sex with my wife couple times. So I can compare.

PMO: Extreme dopamine rush...I can be edging for hours before O, so I feel incredible release. I feel extreme arousal and exhaustion. After couple hours I want more and feel like addict.

Sex with a real person: There is a dopamine rush, arousal is there but it is undeniably smaller. But there are other awesome feelings besides pure arousal. I felt extreme joy, happiness, and accomplishment. After sex I was exhausted but happy. That happiness was wearing off for about 2 days.

If I were addiction-free and could make absolutely rational decision, I would choose plain missionary-style sex with average looking woman over the best PMO binges I ever had. Don't give yourself to PMO. It is a cheap imitation of the real stuff.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 07, 2017, 12:31:27 PM
Thanks KittyHawk, I have only had sex twice in my life and didn't O either time. I was a virgin until I was 33 and can relate to what you are saying about the differences. I am now 37 and since having sex I feel much more relaxed about the issue. However, here is the problem, fear of sharing sexual desires. I am so ashamed of my PMO history and desires that I find I am scared to share sexual cues with a woman in case I reveal them. I am confused about which aspects of my fantasies are legitimate desires of myself which I can share with another and which are things that not even I would want in real life and I am scared to explore this with someone else so I can sort it out. When I had sex the first time, the girl I was with, who had a form of schizophrenia like me, was really exploring her sexual desires explicitly, rather than the other way around, and that is quite unusual I believe, at least in my experience. She is the only girl who has ever explicitly asked me for sex. though some other women have hinted at it. However, even when it was hinted at, I have been scared to respond, because it has demanded of me a revelation of what I want. I want to stress that rationally I know that the real thing is what I really want, but the addict in me chooses PMO every time not just because of the extreme dopamine rush, but because it gives up in the face of the difficulties I have described above. I understand from your posts you took your time to find a partner too. I would welcome your advice further. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: KittyHawk on June 07, 2017, 01:19:48 PM
I don't know what your desires are (or how unusual) but I think you are overthinking it a little. During sex, you just act and adjust based on partners feedback. You don't ask for permission every step of the way (which in my experience turns women off since you come of as too insecure). So unless it is something really kinky, just be the man a let woman be a woman. The one that was able to ask you explicitly for everything was definitely an exception. Most of them are just waiting for the lead.

I haven't been kissed on lips until I was 27. I had very small confidence around women so I picked online dating as it helped me to overcome fear from making the first move. I still faced many tough first dates as my real me didn't match my funny online personality due to my shyness. However, I got better with countless repetition and eventually made my (now) wife to fall in love with me. Once I was sure the girl likes me, I wasn't shy about making physical progress. I had troubles with PIED throughout our whole relationship. She suffered from vaginism. Which on one hand made it even harder to achieve penetration. But on the other hand she had tremendous understanding for my problem.

Just believe me when I say that there is no road impossible if you are persistent long enough.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 07, 2017, 02:39:35 PM
Thanks again KityHawk, I don't have any kinky desires for things I want to do with a partner, but porn in itself is kinky. Whenever it is time for me to act in a forward manner, I fear this kinkiness, basically over the top sexual explicitness, will come through rather than normal sexual responses. I think this is what you mean by over thinking. However, I put it down more to the years of PMO abuse that have trained me to react sexually in a certain way whilst combining such instant gratification with shame and paranoia. Anyway, perhaps I am worrying too much. It definitely does get better when you live without PMO, I just need to make sure that finding a sexual partner doesn't trigger me to relapse as it has been so far. And here is where recognising and accepting that the dopamine rush is different is important. As you say, there are much greater rewards for having a real intimate sexual relationship with someone than mere dopamine and the dopamine rush that you get from PMO is really destructive whereas that with a real person is natural and healthy. Keeping that in mind should keep me on the right track. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on June 07, 2017, 07:12:31 PM
Very insightful, Georgos. Keeping thinking in that direction. If you treat real people with a porn mentality, the relationship will die. PMO need stop be seen for what it is - a counterproductive coping mechanism. It doesn't represent anything from the real world - not comfort, not company, not even natural sexuality. It is a distortion of those things and you pay a heavy price for the indulgence because real life becomes very hard to approach once you withdraw from it.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 12, 2017, 12:45:42 PM
So I didn't sleep last night, and smoked 30g in the day, no more, thank you
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on July 07, 2017, 07:07:12 AM
Been having a psychotic relapse for the past few weeks, not very fun :( Better now, but relapsed on PMO. I really don't know where to begin. During my last long streak of twenty weeks starting just before the new year I did absolutely nothing except eat, drink, sleep and smoke cigarettes. Trying to stop smoking as well was probably my downfall, I don't know. It's true I have no obligation to do anything with my condition, but that doesn't make it a good way to live. I can now no longer do six whole months before the end of the year which I am quite upset about. I want to try again though, and I can still do longer than the twenty weeks I did at the beginning of this year. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: rkrera on July 07, 2017, 10:00:46 AM
Hello Georgos,

Actually you are doing a great job. And you need to know recover from this addiction, 4 aspects needs to developed in you to be cured:

1- Body

Sleeping well is very important, as staying up for late nights trigger your brain to do such a bad habit

Eating alot of sugar too, has bad impact

2- Spiritually

For sure we all need to connect to our creator, and keep asking for his help always. and to understand that he understand our weakness and he love to help us and guide us.

what hurts you after watching porn, is that it dosn't match with your nature, and your humanity. so by default you will feel sad. that thing was created in you to go back to the right path and stop harming your self.

God is not in need to your hurt, but hurt and pain is a way to differentiate between good and bad.

3- Mind

You need to learn what damages of watching porn, and how it affects your brain badly.

Renew your thoughts, monitor them

4- Stress Management


understand what is reminders/triggers that takes you down to relapse:

like (internet, mobile, alone, ........)

learn how to minimize them

for me i have dismissed my smart phone, and my home internet (no dsl in my home), and night shifts at work to stay into healthy environments.

you need to set in a safe zone, that get the best of you.

don'y rely on motivation and will to do the good, rely on improvements and actions taken to stay far away as much you can.

FINALLY BE THE BEST FRIEND TO YOU, BE YOUR OWN LOVELY DR.
 
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on July 14, 2017, 06:51:51 AM
Thank you rkrera for you kind comments. I will update. After coming out of about a month of psychosis, I felt very dejected. I had experienced the reality of life without order and everything seemed worthless. Today I feel much better. Order, or structure, gives our life purpose, however realising that all structure is ultimately an illusion, or at least transitory, I did not know where to turn. Today I want to establish some order and structure in my life again to give me some purpose. I keep trying to do the same things. I've heard it said that madness is doing the same thing over and over again even when it doesn't work. Perhaps I am making a mistake by repeating my desires. Perhaps I should try something different. But my imagination doesn't offer me any alternatives. So here it is. I want to learn my language. I want to revise my mathematics. I want to practice my t'ai ji. Last year I managed to do all three of these things for about fifteen weeks whilst abstaining from PMO. Ok, I only did the language lessons for fifteen weeks, introducing the other things later into the abstention, but even so, I did manage to make progress. I am going to try again. Wish me luck. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on July 15, 2017, 02:17:34 PM
Another day without PMO, another day of doing nothing. The two aren't related other than it was almost definitely PMO addiction that got me into this state of affairs in the first place. I had a big plan for today. I was going to jump in and do a lot of activities starting from the moment I got up. I didn't do any of them. I'm going to start small for tomorrow. The priority is not to smoke in my flat. I know, I've been down this route before, but I need to do it. I've had a terrible cough and I have been damaging myself, near self-harm, with cigarettes. I only took them up to ease the anxiety I had about PMO, and stopping them is part of my reboot. I managed a month and twenty five days of not smoking in my flat before, so I'll try to beat that this time. Indeed it should be for good. Abstaining from PMO continues. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on July 20, 2017, 01:34:29 PM
I'm starting again. I'm not smoking in my flat anymore, which is good, but today I relapsed on PMO. I don't want to discuss how I got into this situation of relapsing so frequently after such a long streak, it is an addiction. Now there are eleven days left till the new month. I will aim to abstain for these eleven days at least and then take it from there. Hopefully I will be able to get back on track. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on August 12, 2017, 07:05:43 AM
Three days ago I did my first whole day without smoking unaided. However, it coincided with about two weeks of psychotic relapsing and today and yesterday I relapsed on PMO. This cannot continue.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on August 17, 2017, 12:26:17 PM
So I've stopped buying cigarettes, haven't bought any for the past five days, scrounging them in the street instead, which whilst a bit cheeky, has meant that I have cut down significantly, and am looking much better for it, I am told. With regards to PMO, to some extent I have lost my commitment to stopping. I PMOd today, after only five days abstinence. I still want to stop, but I've been feeling quite ambivalent towards the whole process. PMO has ceased being the centre of my concerns, which on the one hand is good, as it means I'm less neurotic, but on the other hand is bad because it means that I am much less focused on my goal, and thus easily cave whenever the impetus arises. The truth is there are so many aspects to life, and stopping PMO will not address all of these. I have no doubt that stopping PMO will improve my life, but there are so many other ways I could improve my life as well. These last five days I haven't been counting, indeed I had to check here to see when it was I last PMOd. Again this has its good points, in that it makes me much less neurotic. I don't know what to do. I can carry on as I am, or I can set myself a modest target of till the end of the month, two weeks time. I say modest, and indeed it is compared to the 20 weeks that I have managed before, but as things stand at the present it will be tough to stick to. I will say it again, there are so many aspects to life, and stopping PMO will not address all of these. Basically, at present, I'm not sure what my priorities are. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on August 21, 2017, 01:21:30 PM
Still not buying any cigarettes :) my consumption is down to about a third of what I was smoking before and it should get even less because I can't keep asking the same people each day. No PMO since I last wrote, which was only a couple of days ago or so. I've just been having urges brought on by a particularly sexy girl contacting me on my dating website. Hopefully she'll respond to my reply. Reboot continues. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: toph on August 21, 2017, 02:25:04 PM
Good for you man, seems you are working hard. Keep it up.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 28, 2017, 05:35:55 AM
So after just over a month, I relapsed. Why? Nostalgia. Porn has always been political for me. However much I believe in socialism and equal rights, I have always returned to being a Tory. Oh I know Cameron wanted to make it impossible to look at P. But that was because he was socially conservative and worried about division within his own party. But it is over now. Yet still I felt nostalgia. That was my failing. No more.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on September 28, 2017, 09:33:53 AM
So after just over a month, I relapsed. Why? Nostalgia. Porn has always been political for me. However much I believe in socialism and equal rights, I have always returned to being a Tory. Oh I know Cameron wanted to make it impossible to look at P. But that was because he was socially conservative and worried about division within his own party. But it is over now. Yet still I felt nostalgia. That was my failing. No more.
Georgos, you know that you have my full support always, but that was the biggest load of crap I've ever heard! "Porn is political" - that is the most obscure justification I've ever heard for using porn! If your brain is really telling you that, you're looking in the oddest places to explain your urges. Keep it simple, don't engage in this sort of far-reaching causative speculation. It'll take you nowhere. Porn addiction is non-partisan.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: RealityCheck on September 29, 2017, 08:10:25 AM
Respectfully, I disagree with malando.  My sister doesn't eat pizza because that's what she was having on September 11th, 2001, and now it makes her feel the same way.  The brain has strange ways of making associations, so Georgos, I think if you associate porn with politics, you should accept that, and strategize accordingly.

Knowing your trigger is key to fighting urges.  So you can be on the lookout when your triggers arise and use strategies you have developed ahead of time to fight them off. 
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 02, 2017, 09:30:29 AM
Don't really want to post. Basically I searched for P and edged a bit today. Not the end of the world, but not good either. Hopefully won't happen again. On the plus side, I didn't find anything that I actually felt drawn to click on which might indicate progress of a kind, but I don't want to analyse, just get back into the flow of living life P-free. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: RealityCheck on October 02, 2017, 10:09:07 AM
Do you know what triggered you?  What strategies can we come up with to assist you fight urges next time that trigger arises?
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 02, 2017, 01:20:51 PM
Yes I do. There were a combination of factors which I don't feel comfortable going into here at the moment, though I probably should as I do think it might help to strategize around them for the future. I have proved many times that I can go long spells without PMO. Twice I've done around five months, and I regularly go one or two months at a time. This is not to say that I can do it at will. It can be quite hard to get back into my stride. This is where I think you're right that analysing triggers might help. The progress I've made so far has largely been down to meditation/prayer if that's not too loaded a word. I think, because I have often succeeded at just putting PMO out of my mind, I've not thought it necessary to focus on triggers. Writing about them would be a bit traumatic for me, but I have a private diary, so maybe I will start writing about them there, that is after all the first step that got me to be able to write here in the first place. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 04, 2017, 11:41:05 AM
So I PMOd today. End of. The trigger was boredom and nihilism. I think there are two sets of triggers in my life. Ones that bring on chemical urges leading to relapse and ones that make me suggestable to relapse. In this case it was the latter. Nihilism is a relatively common  trigger for me. Why I get nihilistic is the real issue that needs to be addressed. I am not nihilistic all the time. Far from it. I get nihilistic when I take a look at how I spend my time and realise that it is not healthy for me. I then try to think of what I could be doing and find everything worthless. At that point I am likely to relapse. How do I spend my time? How could I be spending my time? These are questions that I will try to answer a bit more in future posts.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 04, 2017, 01:45:47 PM
I want to update twice today. Since writing here I've become much more relaxed about my PMO usage. Indeed this last month that I abstained between the end of August and September, I didn't even count the days, which is kind of a first for me. Maybe relaxed isn't the right word, but less neurotic, definitely. I think this is good. But I need to remind myself why I want to stop. Unlike many on here I never suffered from PIED, although the only two times I've had sex I didn't ejaculate, and that apparently is likely due to PMO. At any rate the reason I want to stop is because I believe it has corrupted my views on sex and my wiring regarding sexual experiences. This is not to mention the fact that I am against the exploitation of women and all the pain and suffering that I've heard happens in the porn industry. When it was just comics, this wasn't such a concern, comics only exploit the viewer, but I can't pretend that I don't look at live action porn anymore, even if it is only the preliminary stages (I generally switch off before it gets to the hardcore scenes). The fact is it is the whole way of relating sexually that I've trained myself to with my PMO addiction that I want to change. I've only ever had sex twice in my life, and that is because I'm so mentally messed up. Stopping PMO would go a long way towards resolving this, and every time I've stopped for long periods in the past I've certainly felt much better sexually. Having said that, becoming less neurotic about my PMO usage is definitely positive as well. Everyone is different and for some people PMO is a non-issue, and they lead perfectly fulfilling sex lives despite using, at least I'm pretty sure that's the case. So the real issue is me and how I relate to the world. Writing that sounds very self-centred, and perhaps that, i.e. narcissism , is a big problem too. Those who have read my previous posts know that I suffer from schizophrenic relapses pretty regularly and that I put my development of this down to my past PMO usage as well. So a lot to deal with. The one thing I really want to emphasise for myself is that life without PMO is a hundred percent better than life with it, and that is my number one reason for stopping. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 05, 2017, 11:41:40 AM
Ok, this is difficult. My life is ok. All I really do is surf the internet and go out for several coffees a day at my local café. It is not a hard life, except that I have regular psychotic episodes in which I believe all sorts of crazy stuff and live in altered states and realities. I have nothing to complain about really. Intellectually there are several things I think would be a good idea to do. But energetically, or perhaps emotionally, I can rarely bring myself to do them. I think it would be good if I did do them. But I don't have the energetic motivation. Every now and then I start doing some of these things. I last a few weeks to a month or so and then cave. What is the remedy. Are these just flights of fancy brought on by basically doing nothing. Or are they real things that could change my life for the better. If the latter is the case, how do I find the motivation. Perhaps the fact that I am not motivated emotionally or energetically is an indication that these activities are not for me after all. Basically I just feel guilty about wasting my time. I don't know what to do.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: RealityCheck on October 05, 2017, 12:43:32 PM
Georgos,

Your last post is very vague.  What do you want out of our life?  What excites you?  What are your goals?  What are your passions?  Envision these with detail, then you can take the positive energy from that excitement to move forward.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 06, 2017, 01:44:59 PM
There are no easy answers to these questions. I have always been very sensitive and tried to see the good in everyone. I have also tried to give everyone what they want. This has shaped my politics which I spend an inordinate amount of time pursuing on the internet. Now is this a good thing? What do I actually contribute. My life is very easy save from the psychotic episodes. What happens when I experience psychosis is that I experience a coming war. Now is war actually coming? Unless something is done about global warming, then probably yes. The tensions I feel are the build up to this, but are far removed from the actual reality of climate change and much more to do with history. So I keep asking myself what can I do to be on the right side of history? How will I survive in the future? Yet the point is that I don't even look after myself in the present, wasting time and energy on nothing or being a cyberwarrior. That will count for nothing if and when the time comes. Is this all a delusion? Am I making myself paranoid by thinking about these things too much? That is one of my conclusions. I should try to work. I have worked before, even with my psychosis, until my doctor said it was getting too much and I should really stop. It is true that when I was working I had to take numerous breaks because of my mental health. But at least I was a worker. The fact is, I enjoy my life, bar the psychosis, and in fact in a perverse way feed off the psychosis to stimulate my naval gazing. I don't have any control over when it happens, and I can't function when I am experiencing it in anyway that allows for reasonable human interaction or action, but it does lead me to all sorts of ideas about the world that I find interesting. It is a real illness, but that does not mean that some of what I am sensing in an exaggerated way has no basis in reality. So the question is what do I do? I can keep feeding my paranoias by engaging in cyberwarfare, or I can step away from that, however I doubt that either approach will stop me having psychotic relapses. And I doubt that either approach will save me from the coming challenges of the world. I know all this sounds mad, I am just writing what comes to me, tomorrow I may have a different opinion. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: RealityCheck on October 06, 2017, 04:14:17 PM
It sounds like you are very overwhelmed in your mind.

Let's simplify things.

Do you want a healthy romantic relationship?
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 07, 2017, 06:25:01 AM
I appreciate your replies Reality. In fact I am in a relationship and I am happy. Perhaps this isn't the place to deal with my psychosis and turn my life around. I think I have said before that in the past, every time I PMOd, I'd get a burst of motivation to improve myself and my life. It would never last though. I think there is something about this that is important. I don't want to talk about my relationship, I want to talk about my life. How to get motivation without PMO. To what extent I've damaged my reward system for motivation by years of PMO. etc. Having a sexual relationship is only one part of life. There are deeper aspects like looking after oneself, possibly starting a family, etc. To achieve these I have to deal with my psychosis which I strongly believe was caused by my unhealthy relationship with PMO. But what caused my unhealthy relationship with PMO. That I believe was identity politics which I was sensitive to though not fully aware of as a child. I searched for P again today and edged. It has left me feeling ashamed and dirty again. My biggest issue with PMO is the psychology. Once again I need to remind myself that putting distance between me and PMO allows my psychological state to improve. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: RealityCheck on October 07, 2017, 11:06:49 AM
It's fantastic that you are in a healthy relationship.  Can you share your PMO issues with your partner?

If not, that's ok.  I'd like to offer you a few words of encouragement.

First of all, MOST guys PMO.  I think your life will become easier when you first stop beating yourself up for resorting to PMO.  That stuff is specifically designed to attract you and hook you.  I wouldn't view it as there is something wrong with you if you PMO, I view it as it makes you a remarkable man to recognize it's not good for you, and to work to get off of it despite of its draw.

Also, to simplify things again: without getting too personal, do you have enough money to be comfortable?  That can be an easy motivator.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 07, 2017, 11:43:20 AM
Hi Reality. My relationship is in the early stages, although we used to go out before some years ago and had sex. With regards to most guys using PMO, I'm not sure, I know P is the number one search on the internet, and most guys M, but whether most guys PMO I don't know. At any rate, why do I beat myself up about it if it is so common? I think it has to do with how I feel about myself in relation to others. There are two aspects that come to my mind. The first is always wanting to give people what they want and not knowing what to give girls. The second is feeling rejected. Both of these feelings are exacerbated by my PMO use and lead to me feeling bad about myself. Let me rephrase my last post: identity politics didn't lead me to PMO, it lead me to having a bad relationship with PMO, which is why I want to stop. I need to heal, and stopping allows me to heal. It is only since I have stopped for significant periods of time that I have even been able to get into a relationship. Talking about it has also helped. My girlfriend and I did talk a little about it last time we were going out. I've tried to avoid the subject so far this time, mostly because I've been kidding myself that I'm over it, having recently gone a month without, though clearly, judging by the last week or so I'm not. Perhaps I will talk to her about it again. I didn't phone her today because I felt bad after searching and edging to P. I'll think about it. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: RealityCheck on October 07, 2017, 12:16:57 PM
I understand, Georgos.  And I respect your intention on improving yourself.  You can beat this addiction.  Just take one day at a time, and let time work to your advantage.  You can do it!
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 10, 2017, 04:55:26 AM
So the focus of this site is rebooting from PMO addiction. I have said in the past that the reboot should be holistic and all encompassing. To some extent this is true. The addiction takes place within a particular equilibrium. Cutting it out changes that equilibrium and without adapting a new equilibrium might not be found, thus a return to the addiction. However, making all sorts of changes for the better in ones life may or may not have anything to do with finding an equilibrium in which PMO is absent. So I am debating with myself about returning to posting things about other changes that I want to make in my life, given that that is not the focus of this site. I have said before that every time I PMO I get an urge to improve my life afterwards. Finding a way to improve my life without PMO is my main goal. Whether it is helpful to address the other changes I wish to make to my life here or not I don't know. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 12, 2017, 02:56:01 PM
So I'm trying to reflect. I can go several months without PMO, twice since joining this site I've done more than three months, doing just over 140 days on my last long streak. It's true I have yet to do a year or even six months which is still my aim, but I am generally feeling much better in relation to my addiction. Partly that is just as a result of sharing and speaking about it, something that was so taboo for me for so long. I still haven't had sex in about five years, but since joining this site I have been in a few Platonic relationships which have been nice, so that is progress. Schizophrenia has remained a problem for me with several major relapses, though not bad enough to go into hospital. I have still been smoking far too much, and I have still not really managed to start or settle into a regular routine of study and exercise, let alone teaching which is what I really want to do. To come back to the focus of this site, I shall set my first target to get to the end of the year without PMO which is about two and two thirds months. I'm so happy that I'm not counting days any more, something that I have been doing since childhood. However, my first target remains clear, even without counting, to get to January 1st 2018. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: RealityCheck on October 12, 2017, 02:59:16 PM
Georgos,

The aim of this forum is to eliminate the addiction to PMO.  If you feel that you must address other areas of your life in order fight the addiction, then by all means you should post.  Not only is this a supportive group, but you will always remain completely anonymous, so you have nothing to fear.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 13, 2017, 03:38:07 AM
Thanks Reality. The most fundamental problem that I face is my schizophrenia. That was caused in no short way by my relationship with PMO use, though other things facilitated it coming to the surface. Every time I come out of a psychotic relapse, I am faced with the question of "what is reality?". No one can answer this in full. However, the fact that my subjective reality is so variable, demands that I take action to manage it. It has been simply impossible to hold down a job for any length of time given such variability in my perception. Why is my subjective reality so variable? Why does it seem to me that objective reality varies as well? Is there even such a thing as objective reality? My conclusion to the last question is that objective reality is an absolute and as such can never be fully perceived. Instead we perceive degrees of overlap between our subjective realities. The question as to why these change so radically for me from one month to the next I still don't have an answer to. Nor do I know how to manage it on my own without the assistance of carers. More worryingly, it seems that only my parents can provide the care I need, with NHS staff tending to make it worse, and, as they are getting on in life, and will not be with me forever, this provides ample reason to fear for the future. I really need to address these issues now before it is too late. However I still can't get beyond the first question of "what is reality?". One of the questions that I have begun asking myself is about what ideas and influences I feed myself with. PMO has obviously been one of these that has had the most devastating affect. But politics as well, more and more, seems to me to be a prime culprit. However, I have a fear about ignoring politics. I fear that if I don't focus on it, I won't be prepared if radical change comes. Most of my psychotic relapses are literally the coming of such radical change, though it is never sustained. However I fear that one day it will come for good. From the outside it seems obvious that my consumption of radical politics causes my paranoid psychotic relapses, however, time and time again their reality is confirmed by other people I meet in the street and elsewhere. During the times of relapse, it genuinely seems as if a revolution, or some such other radical change in society, is taking place, and though I know that some of my interpretations of these realities are erroneous, many others are backed up by what is happening around me and conversations I have with strangers and the like. How can reality fluctuate so much in such a seemingly objective manner? How should I deal with it? Can I stop the fluctuations without abandoning my political morals and instincts? Or, perhaps, do I need to abandon the political ideas that I grew up with and still pay attention to? If so, what do I substitute them with? How do I avoid jumping from one extreme to the other? Or alternatively, how can I find meaning in life in the absence of political ideals? As I have said, one key thing I could do is to stop feeding myself with political discourse, this is one thing my therapists suggested before he became ill, however my fear of being caught off guard is quite strong. I will talk more about this later. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: RealityCheck on October 13, 2017, 08:30:46 AM
Georgos,

Thank you for sharing.  It sounds like a trained professional could be of use to you.  I know there are many out there, and they are not all equal, I would think it to be important to find one you can bond with and trust.

I am certainly not an expert.  With that being said, seeing as "Reality Check" just so happens to be my screen name, I'd like to share my opinion on that matter.

I would define objective reality as the actions that directly affect you in the outside world.  What other people say to you, and the actions they take towards you is objective reality - your perception does not play as large of a role if a girl kisses you, a man punches you, or a parent hugs you. With regards to your perception of politics, I'd encourage you to try to eliminate worry from your life.  Worrying is unproductive.  If action is required to change the status quo, then take the action, the worry is unnecessary.  It is an emotion that if based on something that will never happen, is completely wasted energy.  If you are worrying about something that will end up happening, you will have to take action on that event in the future anyway, worrying now just gives you more time to feel poorly about it and is STILL a waste of energy. 

It sounds like staying PRESENT will be of great benefit to you.  I know what it's like to be caught in your own mind, reliving the past or playing out future scenarios that haven't and in most cases will never occur.  I highly recommend meditation, as it makes your ability to clear your thoughts stronger, leading to more focus, and more interaction with the world as it is objectively interacting with you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 14, 2017, 12:09:56 PM
So I've done about a week so far with no outright PMO although I have searched and edged to P a couple of times. Mornings seem to be a real trigger time at the moment, largely because I have no real plans for any of my days. I will make sure this next week will be completely free from P altogether and my target still remains to get to the end of the year without PMO. I want to thank you Reality for your insightful post and I will reply to it probably in my next one. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 25, 2017, 03:52:49 AM
So ten days down the line from my last post I relapsed. The trigger was unusual for me in that I stumbled across a picture that aroused me unintentionally in a place where such images are rarely found, indeed I have never seen a trigger inducing image there before. It wasn't even remotely pornographic, just the expression on the woman's face. However that led me to searching and ultimately PMO. Even whilst I was doing it, I found the PMO experience unsatisfying besides shameful. One of the things that I have wondered for a while is whether it is useful to talk rationally and objectively about the type of P I often, though not exclusively, have looked at. I don't know if that breaks the forum rules or not. One thing I will say is that, just as in Orwell's 1984, P is used as a form of control of the masses by the system, this influences my choice of P as I struggle to free myself from bondage. Anyway, ten days is not nearly enough. Onward. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: RealityCheck on October 26, 2017, 09:08:43 AM
Georgos,

I'm sorry to hear about your relapse.  It sounds like you will be more prepared next time, as you were surprised by the nature and source of the image that aroused you.  Now you know to keep your guard up at all times!

You mentioned in your previous post that in the mornings, you have nothing planned for your day.  As men, our testosterone is at it's peak in the mornings.  I highly recommend putting some structure in place the night before for your mornings, so when you wake up you can engage yourself which is spectacular defense to beating PMO.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: FlyPhoenix on October 30, 2017, 12:53:25 AM
Hey Georgos,

Sorry to hear about the relapse, hope your recovery today is a bit better. One thing that people always, without fail, say to me every time I would relapse was: "What did you learn?" or "What was missing in your recovery?"

A friend encouraged me by saying that we only fail when we stop trying to do recovery, and that a relapse is only a failure if we learn nothing from it.

The point is to always reflect on what went wrong, speak to others in recovery and see what can be added to your programme of recovery. I am also in early recovery, with only a few weeks since I acted out, so we are basically in the same boat. I still wrestle with social media, but I'm grateful that this area is also being eliminated from my life.

I wish you all the best in your recovery man. Be kind to yourself, practise self-care, self-love and daily maintenance. Progress, not perfection.

Regards,

Flame Birdie ;)
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 01, 2017, 02:58:37 PM
So I have been having mild schizophrenic relapsing this last two days. It won't get any worse if I can help it. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 05, 2017, 04:07:15 AM
So it's been over three weeks now since I PMOd, my schizophrenic relapse is abating, but the world seems to have changed and I am uncertain in it. Also, I haven't heard from my girlfriend in about a week and I'm a bit worried. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 08, 2017, 04:04:49 AM
Helped some builders lifting tiles yesterday and realised just how physically weak I am. I noticed this the first time I had sex. My T'ai Ji is good and I was able to smooth out the pulled muscles in my arm pretty quickly but that doesn't negate the fact that I simply cannot lift weights. Getting a job as a builder has become more appealing. I'll have to make some contacts. I think my relationship with my ex is over as she got scared with me linking her up. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 11, 2017, 11:46:57 AM
So it's coming up to a month now and I had my first real urge to return to PMO just now. The storms of the past few days seem to have subsided. This is one of the times I am most vulnerable to PMO relapse as I look at my life and find it wanting. For all the knowledge I have, I keep feeling after psychotic relapses that I am useless. In the past PMO took me away from that feeling and gave me something to focus on, namely my addiction. However I really want to move forward this time. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 13, 2017, 05:15:09 AM
Went on a date at the weekend. We had dinner and she wanted to come back to my flat, but for some reason I couldn't bring myself to agree. I even for a moment thought of saying "I'm gay", which I know I'm not, although when I had that thought I almost believed it. Perhaps the real reason is that I only have a mattress on the floor in my flat and I knew I wouldn't be comfortable. I did walk her home though and we held hands which felt kind of natural. Maybe I just don't want to have sex with her. I don't know. Anyway, spending time in my flat is still a problem. I only really sleep there, coming back to my parents in the day. I have a new maths student coming up, so that is good. Realistically, getting some part time physical work that takes my condition into consideration will be hard, though I plan to see if I can get my key-worker to help me with that. Things are going well. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 14, 2017, 08:06:29 AM
So I did an exercise routine this morning which is good and will make an effort to record that I do it every day from now on. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 14, 2017, 08:43:21 AM
One of the things I want to do is make sure that if I do fall of the wagon, I only MO and not PMO. There is still the risk of corrupt fantasy involved with MO but it is not nearly so materialistic as PMO. Pleasure is not love. I think if I fall off the wagon again then I am going to try a completely different approach that I have muted before, namely to allow myself to MO once a week, or more if necessary, so long as I don't look at P, soft mode instead of hard mode. I really want to get away from deriving my sexual satisfaction from searching for and looking at pixels. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 15, 2017, 04:32:27 AM
Another day of exercises in the morning going well. Urges to act out have been coming pretty much every other day at the moment. I need to remember to only MO and not PMO if I do act out. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 16, 2017, 04:51:57 AM
Woke this morning feeling tired, despite a good nights sleep. Didn't feel like doing my exercises but managed to do them anyway. I'm going to keep reminding myself that MO is better than PMO. Am making the effort to read every day as well. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 17, 2017, 04:12:12 AM
Another day of exercises in the morning. Need to keep reminding myself that MO is preferable to PMO. At the beginning of December I'm going to start doing half-an-hours maths revision every morning after my morning coffee as well. Wanted to start immediately, but couldn't find the energy. Hopefully by setting a target date to start I can build up to it in my mind. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 18, 2017, 12:03:38 PM
Another day of exercises. Need to keep reminding myself that I must MO if I fail and not PMO. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 19, 2017, 05:33:48 AM
Another day of exercises going well. Still reading every day which is good. Really need to gear up to doing my half-an-hour's maths in the morning after coffee. Must keep reminding myself to MO instead of PMO if I fail. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 20, 2017, 08:45:16 AM
Another day of exercises. I missed out the standing stake exercise in the morning because I was late for an appointment, but did it later on in the day. Also, finally I have started doing half-an-hours maths revision, though I didn't do it first thing after my coffee in the morning. I will do this every day from now on and will update about it every day as well. Last but not least, I will keep reminding myself to MO rather than PMO if I fail. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 21, 2017, 12:33:02 PM
I again missed my standing stake exercise in the morning and only managed to do it just now, but other than that I have now done over a week of exercises first thing in the morning. I have also done half-an-hour's maths today again. Doing these two things is important to me and I will update everyday to make sure I do them. Finally, I will keep reminding myself to MO instead of PMO if I can't fight the urges. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 22, 2017, 10:38:48 AM
I again only just did my standing stake exercise now, whilst doing the rest of my exercises first thing in the morning. I don't know if this really matters. Part of me thinks it is better to start the day with the standing stake meditation but perhaps it is not that important. Also managed to do my half-an-hour's maths today again. This is all good. Finally, once again I remind myself that I must MO rather than PMO if I fall off the wagon. Thank you.,
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 23, 2017, 12:55:36 PM
Still doing my standing stake meditation in the early evening instead of first thing in the morning. Not that bothered, it seems to be working. Did the rest of my exercises first thing and also my half-an-hour's maths revision. I should really be doing several hour's worth of maths a day, but I am finding it hard enough to do just half-an-hour at the moment, concentration, at least at that level, is still difficult. I hope to increase it though, but I think I will wait at least a month to make sure that the routine becomes cemented. I absolutely do not want to have another psychotic relapse. I'm trying to stay away from politics as much as possible and engaging with the internet except this site. Hopefully that will help. Finally, I will keep reminding myself that if I fall off the wagon I must make sure I only MO and not PMO. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: FlyPhoenix on November 24, 2017, 07:53:09 AM
Great work, I also want to stay off news and digital media, apart from work and recovery.

BY the way, do you have any cool resources for "standing stake" meditation for tai chi and qi gong..?
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 24, 2017, 01:34:37 PM
Thanks Phoenix, I don't really have any resources for standing stake, qi gong or t'ai ji, almost everything I learned from classes, but I'm sure if you use google you can find all sorts of resources to help. I almost PMOd today. Thankfully I managed to avert it. Did my exercises and my maths revision. Must remember to MO instead of PMO if I can't ignore the urges. Everything good. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 25, 2017, 02:43:26 PM
Another day of exercises and maths revision completed. It's not much but already I feel like there is more purpose to my days. I'm also trying to read books a bit each day. Have to remember to MO rather than PMO if I get the urge. So far so good. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 26, 2017, 01:01:34 PM
All my targets met for today again. Must keep reminding myself to MO instead of PMO if the urges become uncontrollable. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 27, 2017, 03:48:33 PM
Another day of completing all my targets. Completed them a bit late today, but had some social engagements in the day so that's fine. Got to keep reminding myself to only MO and not PMO if I feel unable to resist. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 28, 2017, 01:02:33 PM
So my journal's getting a bit boring for others to read which I'm not too bothered about whilst it helps, but I do appreciate the occasional comment from someone else, so I don't know. Anyway, did all my targets for the day. Keep on reminding myself to MO and not PMO if the urges get too much. Feeling like I have much more purpose at the moment and generally feel good. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 29, 2017, 01:31:18 PM
Another boring post I'm afraid, but I'm succeeding and that's what counts. Did a little bit more maths revision than usual today which is good since I want to increase the time I spend gradually over the coming months. Did my exercises as well, but didn't read any books today, though there is still time I suppose. Generally pleased. Was a bit worried that I was having some fatigue with my routine, but as it happens I've finished earlier than usual. Need to keep reminding myself to MO instead of PMO if the uncontrollable urges strike. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 30, 2017, 09:30:31 AM
So finished my maths revision quite early today, about the time I really want to be aiming for every day once I start increasing the time spent on it. Also did my exercises in the morning and finished one of the books I've been reading. I keep reminding myself of the need to MO instead of PMO if the urges become irresistible. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 01, 2017, 12:12:14 PM
Another day of maths revision and exercises in the morning. I am still only doing three ten minute bursts of maths revision in the day, I don't know where all the rest of the time goes, but anyway it is a start and it does give me more sense of purpose which is good. Haven't read any books today, but there is still time, I suppose. I will keep reminding myself to MO rather than PMO. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 02, 2017, 03:17:40 PM
Almost didn't do my maths revision today, slept most of the day and had a social engagement, but I did manage to do it all in a half hour burst just now. Did my exercises as well. I really don't want to miss a day unless it is unavoidable due to other commitments as once I get out of a routine, even for a day, I find it hard to start again, which is clearly stupid and psychological, but that is the truth. Anyway, am still succeeding, keep reminding myself to MO instead of PMO if ever I cave. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 06, 2017, 02:56:03 PM
So a few days have passed. I need to start doing my maths revision again. I stopped because I started thinking outside the box on a maths problem and that caused a chain reaction in my thinking that led to mild psychosis. I also had a doctors appointment, for something other than mental health, which was causing me anxiety. So far I have completed 127 pages of the 149 pages I need to revise and I really want to finish everything. Anyway, I have been doing my exercises in the morning, though not the standing stake yesterday. Other than that I am succeeding. Need to keep reminding myself to MO instead of PMO. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 08, 2017, 01:39:31 PM
So there are 23 days left till new year. I am going to try to continue "soft mode" until then before I make any analysis of my progress. I did my exercises today and my maths revision and my standing stake. I need to remind myself to MO rather than PMO if I get urges, multiple times if necessary. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: FlyPhoenix on December 13, 2017, 03:33:11 AM
Hey man, do they have SAA (sex addicts anonymous) meetings, or similar, in your area or some kind of support group. I've been missing the meetings in my group, but made a commitment to return to the next one. It is such a powerful place to offer and receive support from others going through the same thing. It isn't an easy journey but with help and information from others, we are able to take things one day at a time. Maybe see if there are therapists who specialise in sex addiction. Be strong man, we just need to imagine how many guys out there are suffering with this addiction.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 13, 2017, 06:29:30 AM
Hi Phoenix, I would be really scared to go to an SAA because I am so close to my family that it would be impossible to go without them knowing pretty much. The MO not PMO works for me at the moment because my primary aim is to stop looking at P which causes me the most shame. I have not felt really bad about MO without P, it is kind of natural, though I don't think it is admirable, whereas I can find no justification in my mind for looking at P other than I am addicted. Indeed, looking at P makes me feel shame and distress at my disgrace. Since joining this site I have twice gone periods of between four and five months. So should I be making the final push?? I'm not sure, a part of me thinks that there will always come a time when I cannot help but MO and I want to make sure that when that time comes, there is no P involved. However, in the last couple of days, I have slipped, I have binged on PMO. Also, by allowing myself to MO every time I got the urge to PMO, I lost all discipline and greatly increased the times I MOd. I don't really know what to do, I need to start again. Perhaps the best thing to do is oscillate between "soft mode" and "hard mode". When I fail at "soft mode" after a month or so, I will try "hard mode", when I fail at "hard mode" for a month or so, I will try "soft mode". With that in mind, I am going to try "hard mode" again. The new year is approaching. Wish me luck. Finally, I have finished my first revision of my maths course, all 149 pages, and now need to go back and do each chapter in more detail. I am keeping a log of this, because getting of P goes hand in hand with turning my life around. My first student has been ill so I haven't started tutoring him yet, however I hope to start in the new year. I intend to advertise as an undergraduate tutor from the autumn of next year. If I can get two or three students that will be more than enough to keep me busy. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 22, 2017, 04:20:29 PM
A week into hard mode and I searched for P and edged a little but did not O. When I commit to Ming my first thought is still to dash to the computer rather than to MO without P. I'm not going to switch to soft mode just yet. The new year is fast approaching and I intend to try and break my record for total abstinence. The rest of my life is still stalling. Having finished the my first run through my undergraduate revision I have yet to go back and do it again, this time in more detail. Indeed I haven't been doing any maths revision for about a week and a half. Nor have I been doing my exercises. I'm going to aim to start both again on boxing day. They give me purpose and that is helpful. However the real problem is my mind. When I go to search for P it is usually because I have thought of some new search term combination. It is almost as if the search terms are more arousing to me than the actual images. Indeed 99% of the thumbnails I see disgusts me and even when I do look at a video I basically only watch the beginning before they actually have sex. This is how messed up this whole business is. It is basically the act of searching, the anticipation, the process, that arouses me, not the actual P itself, though I won't deny that I am aroused by the women as well. Most of the arousal, however, comes from my imagination, yet I have been going to the computer to feed it. I don't enjoy watching people have sex, I enjoy looking at beautiful women acting provocatively and then imagining the rest. Afterwards I always feel terrible and ashamed for having O'd under such circumstances. The trigger is always imagining what new images I will find and that always starts with a new search term coming into my head. I owe it to everyone, including myself, to not search for new images. It has been just over a year and a half since I joined this site and twice I have done around five months abstinence which is already an improvement. I will do six months abstinence this year. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 24, 2017, 12:46:33 PM
So a week till the new year. I shall do six months hard mode. I can do it. I choose to do it. I shall do it. What is there left to analyse? I have been trying to give up PMO for the past thirty years. This site is helping me. My condition and the medication I am on makes me restless. I cannot focus on one thing for more than half an hour max. I will start my exercises and mathematics revision again on Tuesday. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 26, 2017, 03:27:57 PM
Had a good Christmas, no PMO. Did my mathematics revision today. Five days to go to the new year. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Loving_Mary on December 26, 2017, 08:21:00 PM
Come on Georgos, good job ;)
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on January 01, 2018, 09:33:14 AM
Thank you Loving_Mary. So no further PMO before New Year. Doing my maths every day. This year I will finally break free. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on January 29, 2018, 03:24:24 PM
So my experience of trying to separate P from MO is progressing. From now on I'm going to record every time I MO even though I am allowing myself to do this as part of the "soft mode" approach. This is because since starting soft mode I have been MOing a lot. I do not see this as a failure, but it has made it more difficult to separate from the P. I have found that I can look at P without MOing, and I can MO without looking at P, but so far sustained soft mode has eluded me, best I did was just over three weeks. Andyjee's journal has inspired me though. If he can go two years without P then so can I. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 01, 2018, 08:42:29 AM
Ok so I MOd today. I am still unsure of my strategy. Basically I have been allowing myself every time I get the urge to look at P to MO without P instead. This is problematic because it means I am rewarding my brain with dopamine and opioids at the slightest urge rather than trying to ignore the urges, thus I have been MOing more, and when I try and control the MOing I am more likely to search for and look at P. I need to sort this out. I have thought about setting fixed times when I can MO which I think is what I will try. There is another problem as well, my experience of MO is quick, there is much less tension between release of dopamine and release of opioids unlike with searching for and looking at P. This is because I have trained myself to MO to P rather than a blank mind. This is why I have been finding it hard to avoid returning to searching for and looking at P, even if when I do, I don't M and even though I have been allowing myself to MO freely without P. Writing all this is making me question what I am doing. I decided to try soft mode after years of trying hard mode because I reasoned that given that I always seemed to return to PMO in the end, it would be better if I could just return to MO instead. However, allowing myself to MO freely has so far knocked my discipline for six. As I said, I MOd today. I don't know how long to set a time for when I can MO again. I will have to think about it and see how I feel. The main thing is that I don't search for or look at P. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 02, 2018, 03:06:01 PM
So a totally clean day today. I'm still confused about where I stand with soft mode. I think soft mode is really meant for people with partners who still want to enjoy sex together during the reboot. Why am I trying soft mode when I've managed around five months before hard mode? I haven't got a partner, nor have I particularly thought about trying to get one for some time now, it just hasn't entered my consciousness. What I want is for my default form of self-induced orgasm to be from MO and not PMO. This is so that when I do go hard mode I do not revert back to searching for and looking at P if I fail. Reading a book on how to achieve happiness in ones life, it says that shame is one of the factors that can cause long lasting unhappiness. Looking at P makes me feel shame. I simply cannot justify it to myself. I have read some talk about so called "ethical P", but even if all those taking part are happy about what they are doing, it is still objectifying the human body for me, and teaching me that sexual fulfilment comes from staring at a screen. Now MO without P is also problematic in that it establishes a norm whereby sexual fulfilment comes from oneself. Ideally I would like to stop both. Someone suggested that I see a sex therapist. I think that is a good idea, but can't really afford it at the moment. Anyway, as I said, a totally clean day today. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 04, 2018, 02:38:09 PM
Another two days totally clean. It shouldn't be hard going several days without MO given that I can go weeks and months without PMO, but it is. I dare not leave the MO indefinitely because if I do the chances have been that I will return to PMO instead. I have found that it is easier to avoid MO then it is to avoid PMO because PMO begins with a click coupled with anticipation. Dopamine is released with anticipation initially. MO doesn't have that anticipation. So the dopamine pathways aren't lit up initially. The only way I'm going to be able to do this as soft mode is to set targets of when I can MO. This will have to be quite frequently at first, I am thinking once every five days or so. The aim is to never search for or look at P again. So anyway, I have had three days so far totally clean. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 06, 2018, 03:17:04 PM
Another two days totally clean, taking me to five days since I last MO'd. Thinking about when I'm going to allow myself to MO next in line with pursuing a soft mode reboot. Not sure at the moment. I am thinking I could just leave it now as to as and when I get the urge, and then make sure I do another five days minimum total abstinence, but I am also wondering if once every minimum of five days is too frequent. This level of control is a bit crazy, but I am sick of doing long stretches of hard mode, only to return to PMO at the end of them. The problem remains that succumbing to PMO urges is easier than succumbing to MO urges on their own. I really don't know what I'm doing. I just know that consciously, I'd rather MO than PMO and I'd rather not MO at all. Chemically is another matter :( Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 08, 2018, 04:00:38 PM
Another two days total abstinence taking me past a week completely clean. My fear is that if I don't schedule a time to MO then when I relapse I will go straight to PMO instead. Yet it feels good to continue being completely clean. Nor do I want a situation like in January where I was searching for P without MOing on some days and MOing without searching for P on some others with clean days in between. The purpose of soft mode is to completely eliminate P from my life without placing the near impossible expectation of completely eliminating O. Perhaps it is possible to never O, I don't know, but it's probably not even healthy to do that. I know I can go relatively long periods without O but I am still afraid of what happens at the end of them. Fly Phoenix reminded me from his journal that the quality of the reboot matters more than the quantity of days. I am also scared to think about that at the moment as well lest it distract me from staying clean. My experience of psychosis is much better since I stopped paying attention to politics a couple of months ago after my last major psychotic relapse though I am still experiencing some symptoms on a daily basis. I am reminded that I need to find meaning in something other than politics. Unfortunately, finding meaning in something remains elusive to me. Apparently some 85% if meaning in life comes from relationships for most people. I guess that is the way forward. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 10, 2018, 10:38:47 AM
Another two days total abstention. It's not just dopamine that acts when we MO, there are opioids and I've been reading about oxytocin. The following from Psychology Today:

"What Is Oxytocin?

Oxytocin is a powerful hormone that acts as a neurotransmitter in the brain. It regulates social interaction and sexual reproduction, playing a role in behaviors from maternal-infant bonding and milk release to empathy, generosity, and orgasm. When we hug or kiss a loved one, oxytocin levels increase; hence, oxytocin is often called "the love hormone." In fact, the hormone plays a huge role in all pair bonding. The hormone is greatly stimulated during sex, birth, and breastfeeding. Oxytocin is the hormone that underlies trust. It is also an antidote to depressive feelings.

For all its positivity, however, oxytocin has a dark side. Or, more accurately, it plays a more complex role in human behavior than is commonly thought. As a facilitator of bonding among those who share similar characteristics, the hormone fosters distinctions between in-group and out-group members, and sets in motion favoritism toward in-group members and prejudice against those in out-groups. Ongoing research on the hormone is a potent reminder of the complexity of biological and psychological systems."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/oxytocin

This just raises so many thoughts about my recovery for me. It makes me tend to agree that hard mode is the only way to go. But my question remains, can one go hard mode forever? If not, does one condemn oneself to a lifetime of counting days, always struggling to beat one's last record. I guess the answer is to have a partner whome one can enjoy a healthy sex life with, but that doesn't seem to be happening for me at the moment. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Loving_Mary on February 12, 2018, 03:34:24 PM
Another two days total abstention. It's not just dopamine that acts when we MO, there are opioids and I've been reading about oxytocin. The following from Psychology Today:

"What Is Oxytocin?

Oxytocin is a powerful hormone that acts as a neurotransmitter in the brain. It regulates social interaction and sexual reproduction, playing a role in behaviors from maternal-infant bonding and milk release to empathy, generosity, and orgasm. When we hug or kiss a loved one, oxytocin levels increase; hence, oxytocin is often called "the love hormone." In fact, the hormone plays a huge role in all pair bonding. The hormone is greatly stimulated during sex, birth, and breastfeeding. Oxytocin is the hormone that underlies trust. It is also an antidote to depressive feelings.

For all its positivity, however, oxytocin has a dark side. Or, more accurately, it plays a more complex role in human behavior than is commonly thought. As a facilitator of bonding among those who share similar characteristics, the hormone fosters distinctions between in-group and out-group members, and sets in motion favoritism toward in-group members and prejudice against those in out-groups. Ongoing research on the hormone is a potent reminder of the complexity of biological and psychological systems."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/oxytocin

This just raises so many thoughts about my recovery for me. It makes me tend to agree that hard mode is the only way to go. But my question remains, can one go hard mode forever? If not, does one condemn oneself to a lifetime of counting days, always struggling to beat one's last record. I guess the answer is to have a partner whome one can enjoy a healthy sex life with, but that doesn't seem to be happening for me at the moment. Thank you.

well maybe the bottom line of everything isn't oxytocine...maybe the bottom line of the majority of your life is you. You determine what you want.

So key question is why did you go hard mode in the first place and if something has changed since then

cheers
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 13, 2018, 06:25:52 AM

well maybe the bottom line of everything isn't oxytocine...maybe the bottom line of the majority of your life is you. You determine what you want.

So key question is why did you go hard mode in the first place and if something has changed since then

cheers
Cheers to you too LM :) I was going to reply last night, but ended up composing a defence of myself which I think is somewhat missing the point.

The reasons I want to reboot are the same as they have always been, integrity and the desire to develop healthy sexual relations.

Has anything changed?

Recently I have not been particularly interested in finding a girlfriend. I have been quite happy with myself, or rather, I have viewed the idea of having a girlfriend as complicating my life even more. I am no longer obsessed with a need for sex as I was when I was still a virgin. This has been a gradual process. I lost my virginity five years ago and have only had sex twice in my life. But I have come to realise that relationships are not just a means to a sexual end but a complex interaction of companionship, something that I do need, but that I am not chasing. This was my point about oxytocin, it is the "trust" hormone, the hormone of companionship, if one is used to releasing it solo, then one ends up reinforcing the separation of oneself from other people. This is why I said it seems to me that hard mode remains the best option.

However, there is an extra layer if one is used to releasing it in tandem with searching for P on the internet. One comes to build up a relationship of bonding with the computer seeking comfort from what the computer provides. On top of this, for me at least, searching for P is a much bigger damage to my integrity that merely MOing.

My real aim remains hard mode. However, I have been trying to achieve sustained hard mode for the past almost thirty years, ever since I started, counting days inbetween PMO since about the age of ten or so. For most of those years my record was around twenty days. It was only when I started meditating or praying at around the age of twenty eight  that I managed to start going months at a time. I am now thirty eight. Since joining here a couple of years ago I have had my best successes to date, so that is progress. However the reason I am talking about softmode, is because as I said, for me, P is much worse than just MO, for the simple reason that I would be more ashamed of admitting to searching for P than I would be of admitting to MOing. Is it more or less damaging to ones ability to form relationships. That depends on what one fantasizes about or is exposed to via P when one MOs. The best thing is not to do either and be in a healthy relationship. Perhaps it is even possible to be in a healthy relationship with God rather than another person as some monks and nuns are. I don't even know what that means to be honest. Indeed perhaps it is necessary to first be in a healthy relationship with God before one can be in a healthy relationship with another person, or the two go hand in hand. Perhaps this is the meaning of marriage. I hope atheists do not get caught up on my use of words, as Wittgenstein said, once you've reached the realisation of truth you need to throw away the ladder. Not trying to be pretentious, it's just that I don't beleive there is such a thing as an atheist, only a crusader, and as someone who was brought up that way I still hesitate about putting into words any mention of the absolute. Anyway, this is a digression. Your views are welcome. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Loving_Mary on February 14, 2018, 06:13:08 PM

well maybe the bottom line of everything isn't oxytocine...maybe the bottom line of the majority of your life is you. You determine what you want.

So key question is why did you go hard mode in the first place and if something has changed since then

cheers
Cheers to you too LM :) I was going to reply last night, but ended up composing a defence of myself which I think is somewhat missing the point.

The reasons I want to reboot are the same as they have always been, integrity and the desire to develop healthy sexual relations.

Has anything changed?

Recently I have not been particularly interested in finding a girlfriend. I have been quite happy with myself, or rather, I have viewed the idea of having a girlfriend as complicating my life even more. I am no longer obsessed with a need for sex as I was when I was still a virgin. This has been a gradual process. I lost my virginity five years ago and have only had sex twice in my life. But I have come to realise that relationships are not just a means to a sexual end but a complex interaction of companionship, something that I do need, but that I am not chasing. This was my point about oxytocin, it is the "trust" hormone, the hormone of companionship, if one is used to releasing it solo, then one ends up reinforcing the separation of oneself from other people. This is why I said it seems to me that hard mode remains the best option.

However, there is an extra layer if one is used to releasing it in tandem with searching for P on the internet. One comes to build up a relationship of bonding with the computer seeking comfort from what the computer provides. On top of this, for me at least, searching for P is a much bigger damage to my integrity that merely MOing.

My real aim remains hard mode. However, I have been trying to achieve sustained hard mode for the past almost thirty years, ever since I started, counting days inbetween PMO since about the age of ten or so. For most of those years my record was around twenty days. It was only when I started meditating or praying at around the age of twenty eight  that I managed to start going months at a time. I am now thirty eight. Since joining here a couple of years ago I have had my best successes to date, so that is progress. However the reason I am talking about softmode, is because as I said, for me, P is much worse than just MO, for the simple reason that I would be more ashamed of admitting to searching for P than I would be of admitting to MOing. Is it more or less damaging to ones ability to form relationships. That depends on what one fantasizes about or is exposed to via P when one MOs. The best thing is not to do either and be in a healthy relationship. Perhaps it is even possible to be in a healthy relationship with God rather than another person as some monks and nuns are. I don't even know what that means to be honest. Indeed perhaps it is necessary to first be in a healthy relationship with God before one can be in a healthy relationship with another person, or the two go hand in hand. Perhaps this is the meaning of marriage. I hope atheists do not get caught up on my use of words, as Wittgenstein said, once you've reached the realisation of truth you need to throw away the ladder. Not trying to be pretentious, it's just that I don't beleive there is such a thing as an atheist, only a crusader, and as someone who was brought up that way I still hesitate about putting into words any mention of the absolute. Anyway, this is a digression. Your views are welcome. Thank you.

sounds good to me Georgos, if it works for you.

In my case I'm going softmode for the sole reason that I feel I can't go further.

My main enemy is P. M is a minor thing in comparison to P.

I would like to go hard mode. I really apreciate your explanation on the link between MO and connection. It's just I cannot stop M and I'm amazed someone has been 21 days or even months without MO

Even when I have girlfriend I M. It's such a rooted habit in me I can't stop.

I know it's not good and it's kind of weird, but it is what it is.

I'm happy I'm managing to stop P and I can certify that it's the main issue.

Well Georgos just sending you my best wishes.

Cheers
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 16, 2018, 11:16:31 AM
Another three days total abstinence. I want to thank you LM for replying and let you know that I don't consider what you've told me weird, indeed I remember being taught in sex education class at school that M is perfectly natural. I agree the main problem is P, so I don't think there is anything wrong with soft mode. However, until recently I never really tried to M without any kind of visual stimulation. When I first tried it I actually found it quite hard. I am so used to trying hard mode that if anything I have found it more difficult to do soft mode. Given that it is P that I want out of my life first and foremost, I am still wondering how I can make sure that instead of complete failure at the end of hard mode, it simply changes to soft mode for a bit, before trying hard mode again. In other words, P doesn't get a look in. It is with this in mind that I wonder whether I need to practice M without P or schedule it in after a certain amount of abstinence. However, because as I said, I have found MO on its own harder than PMO, I am scared that if I do return to MO now, it will be a slippery slope back to where I started. I still don't know what I am going to do. As I said, another three days total abstinence. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 17, 2018, 10:09:25 AM
Ok, so I MOd today. I'm a little disappointed in myself given that I was aiming for at least a month's hard mode which is the minimum I consider a relative success. However, fifteen days, half a month, is ok, and the main thing is that this time at least I didn't return to PMO. The aim remains the same, no more P, ever! I am resetting my counter though. It is too early to tell when I will next MO. As I said, a month hard mode is the minimum I consider a relative success, but given that I initially was thinking that I'd have to make sure I MOd once every five days, I think somewhere in between is likely at the moment. The important thing is to get through the next few days clean.

I have been wanting to talk a bit about God here, because all my friends are atheists and I considered myself one for most of my life, whereas it seems there are a lot of believers on this forum, and some different perspective might be useful.

The first problem I have is which bits of advice to take. "Religion is advice", I was told by a great Muslim Sufi master. I tend to read bits and pieces from various religions and pick and choose what seems sound to me. This leads to my main confusion, how do I know when I am in contact with God and not some intermediary? I reject anything that seems to want to force me to do something. If I can sense an element of coercion then I attribute it to some, possibly great power, but not to God. Thus I do what I like. But how then am I obeying God and how can I be saved? With my psychosis I have experienced terrible things, and at some level I have been scared, terrified even, but always my higher self has ridden it out just observing, though things have not always gone the way that I have wanted. What does God want from me? What is my purpose? What should I be doing? Recently I have been observing a power so great that I know I can't compete. But this has led me to think that it is pointless to try and do anything to control my world. The world is not in my control. Where does my world stop. My body? My brain? My cells? Am I even them or am I the observer watching the reactions of my body? Or is the observer God, and everything else His creation? Am I God? If so is the world ultimately under my control? Where does this desire for control come from anyway? And back to the problem that preoccupies me, if I cannot control things then what is the point of doing anything? I guess the idea is to please God. But how do I know what pleases Him? Is it that which pleases me? Is God pleased when I am pleased? Doesn't this just take me back to thinking that I can do whatever I want? But again, what about control? Is all control an illusion? Do we have any ability to make our intentions manifest in the world? If you've read this far you will see that these questions are connected to the issue of addiction. They are perhaps the root spiritual questions that underlie our addictive behaviour. Thoughts from anyone, believers or not, are welcome, though please don't get hung up about anything I have said. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 18, 2018, 02:59:06 PM
So today I am completely clean again. I want to do at least five days hard mode, better ten. Obviously it would be best to do more than my last round of fifteen, if I can do a month then all the better. I'm kind of sorry I brought up God whilst at the same time a little disappointed nobody tried to answer or comment on my questions. Today was socially quite busy until mid-afternoon, so I had little time to contemplate my place in the world. Now I'm back to the nothingness. I'm not depressed, just spaced with the thought that I have nothing to offer of any worth to a power that can do anything. I don't really want to post this. I don't want to talk about God. But it is something that I am contemplating as I try to find purpose beyond simply abstaining from P. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: FlyPhoenix on February 19, 2018, 02:00:54 AM
Hey man,

I think it's great you are asking about God. I don't know what you are experiencing, but it seems that something is drawing you to seek out God. I think the term a lot of people in recovery use is: "Higher Power", but some people call this power by different names, as we come from different religious backgrounds.

I found this chapter is the AA Big Book quite useful when coming to terms with a Higher Power: https://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/en_bigbook_chapt4.pdf

Basically, I came to realise that the primary reasons people have for rejecting the idea of a Higher Power are:
1. Pride and Self-sifficiency - I need to be in control and understand everything (and not look foolish to people who might test my belief)
2.  "Sin" - We are so tied to certain behaviours that the world says are okay, but we know God is not okay with. In my faith we call this God speaking to us through the conscience (inner spirit) which we all have. For instance, we know instinctively which films, music etc.. is displeasing to God for us to consume (ironically, this is often the same stuff that leads us to stumble) I had a talk with my son yesterday about the media he consumes, as well as the ideas he consumes and made a rule that anything linked to death (zombies, vampires, demons, skeletons riding spiders [lol] etc..) is off limits as we are striving to clean up our lives.

But if we look at the question from a different perspective, what is it that we have to lose by believing in God? Well, there are two possible scenarios:

1. There is no God
- If we believe, at the worst we are just idiots who went about life with strange notion about life and existence. We die and return to dust. If, during life, we adhere to some of the principles of daily living, we would live according to those and move in the direction that they lead on a practical level, depending on what those principles are and what people we encounter in fellowship of that particular religion.
- If we don't believe, we die and return to dust as above. We live our lives according to whatever concepts we understand and are comfortable living with, often based on the popular culture of the day in order not to be seen as a bigot or backwards.

2. God is real
If we believe, we will search for in the world and in our hearts. We will seek God's help daily and offer our lives to God's way. We will try to understand what God's will for us and that will free us from our old thinking, leading us to a new way of life, each day. This is what the recovery literature refers to when it speaks of surrender.
- If do not believe, we are at risk of living outside of God's purpose for our lives, opening ourselves up to spiritual and physical destruction. We will follow our own thoughts of what life should be, ignoring what God wants for us.

From an eternity perspective, this is a huge risk, much bigger than not believing.

Now, we might be worried that we will be taken advantage of and led astray. But I always say that if you want measure the length of a piece of paper I use a ruler, and the weight of a cup, I use a scale, but to measure spiritual questions, I must use my soul and as myself, is God real?

The answer for me is "Yes". I may not know what God looks like, or how he operates. All I know is that He exists and I am not Him. I may be a part of God, but I am a servant to God's purposes.

Keep exploring man, no one person's understanding is perfect, hence we continue to grow in fellowship with each other, discuss our scriptures, pray, fast, meditate and reach out to God in as many ways as possible. It's only through God's strength that we gain true victory in our lives.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 19, 2018, 02:24:11 PM
Hi Fly, Saint Augustine of Hippo said of mathematicians: “The good Christian should beware of mathematicians. The danger already exists that mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and confine man in the bonds of Hell.”

Forgive me for answering as a mathematician, I am very grateful for you taking time to reply. I shall say as I have always understood it. The absolute is beyond our comprehension, that is God. When I contemplate God I have no care, for what am I but a servant. But when I think of higher powers, there is an infinite hierarchy and the degree to which I serve them or not is subject to observation by ourselves to varying degrees depending on how much one expands ones awareness to observe, and observation by them to varying degrees depending on how much they focus on us. All are servants of God, but God is beyond all comprehension. I'll try and explain it another way. Ants make simple decisions with their relatively tiny brains about what to do, yet they give rise to a collective consciousness that is capable of solving and carrying out much greater tasks. Similarly, our cells make very simple decisions in their behaviour, lacking even what we would recognise as "brains", yet their sum total exceeds the sum of the parts to make up ourselves. There is a jump between the consciousness of the cells and the consciousness of the person, so that the person truly is a higher power. Scientists call such phenomena "emergence". Now if for some reason a cell or ant starts acting out of place, stops serving the whole, and starts serving itself for instance, then the consequences can be catastrophic, cancer for instance, or at the very least dysfunction of the body, or ant colony. This could prompt the higher power to take action to curb or eliminate the behaviour of the component that has stopped serving. This is why some people argue, to live a good life we should always aim to serve the highest power we know.

Yet the highest power is God, and we are always serving God, God has a purpose for us, and we cannot help but fulfill it, whether we are devils or angels, humans or aliens, cells or ants. We cannot comprehend this purpose, just as we cannot comprehend God. Ultimately nothing we do goes against this purpose, all are saved, which I believe is the promise of Jesus Christ.

However, we may take different paths to salvation, and we may through our actions, experience hardship that had we taken different paths we would not have experienced.

Now hierarchies are an illusion, the cell that becomes cancerous, though increasing its replication in the short term, looses as much as the body when the body dies. When to stand up, when to sit down, when to serve and submit and when to take the initiative are all things that the individual components of life cannot comprehend perfectly, only try to perfect or accept the consequences without complaint.

What has been bothering me is that I have been observing a power so great, a power that can really redesign and shape my reality to such an extent, that I have felt worthless and unable to offer anything of any significance towards it, whilst at the same time questioning its intentions towards me, whether it loves me or not. Of course God loves all things, and whilst this power has focused me on God, it has made me doubt myself and I am left looking for a purpose.

Today is day two and I am completely clean again. I am not counting the days I am living without PMO, that is over. So it is two days since I last MOd. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: FlyPhoenix on February 20, 2018, 05:04:02 AM
Very powerful observations indeed. I think the notion of relativity and hierarchy is a very human construct. In order to function without losing our minds, we have learned to divide reality into time, and space, hence future, past, big and small. However, I believe that to God the concept of big and small, past and future have a very different context. To God, everything is one, and everything is happening in the present moment. Then again, that is my own very limited human understanding, which is okay. Our search for God is a small yet very real projection of God's power. To God, the infinitely small is equally as important as the infinitely large. A single mundane moment holds just as much of the life force of thee universe as a billion years. In my faith, God is Love and Relationship. God's purpose that brings so much richness into our lives is for us to be in healthy relationship with Him, with ourselves and with others - now, not later. It doesn't matter if I give my child a million dollars later. Much more important is that I offer my time and my love to her now, today.

So, I'd like to encourage you. God does not hold one thing more important than another. Your life is no less significant to God than that of Christ or Buddha or anyone we as humans may see as being more valuable. God only seeks to know us and send His power  through us so his purposes can be manifest in the world, God offers us guidance because of His love for us and wishes for us to open ourselves to it. When we do our own thing in spite of this guidance, we move slightly further from God. All God wants is to be close to us, because God loves us. In a very real way, God loves you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 21, 2018, 01:43:11 PM
Another two days completely clean. Thank you Fly for your comments. Still worried that I do next to no practical things in my life, nor am I taking any steps to move away from dependency owing to suffering from schizophrenia. However I am worrying less about my self-worth today, which always seems to be my default position when I contemplate a change of lifestyle. Serving my ego is easy, true service is harder. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 23, 2018, 03:12:41 PM
Another two days completely clean taking me past six days since I last MOd. I've found myself thinking ahead to fifteen days when I could potentially MO again which is not the right attitude. For one thing, I have found that the best results come about when one doesn't think ahead instead taking it day by day. I want to go as long as possible without MO, but equally I want to make sure that I don't return to PMO. I keep trying to calculate the correct balance rather than regulate it naturally, but I do have to calculate to some extent otherwise I would be MOing all the time :( Six days is past the minimum five days. Still not taking any steps to leave my dependent lifestyle. Onwards. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 24, 2018, 12:42:36 PM
So this may sound as crazy but there are a lot of Christians on this website and I want to confess what in the Orthodox religion is called my logismoi. I have thought for some time that the reason I counted days my whole life was because I was a member of CND. I was basically trying to keep the peace. I had many ideas, like creating a fulcrum between Cuba and the Cyprus, and low and behold it worked. But now things have gone too far. I need to stop. I have two nodules or thyroid cysts and they won't go away. I managed to stay off returning to my fulcrum politics and I stayed sane, but I soon got bored, well I lasted a few months, and now I have started reading the news from the two countries I mentioned again. I know it is bad for me. But I need a purpose in life and both countries have significance in my life almost. In fact I have Brazil in my family not Cuba, which is terrible because I am only a little boy :( I will endeavour to grow up lawfully. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: FlyPhoenix on February 25, 2018, 08:13:56 AM
Hey man, nothing wrong with learning about history, religion etc.. But at the end of the day we have to give our hearts to God, if we are believers. The goings on of religious organisations and countries should be left out of spiritual meditations as it is only God who can heal our souls and bring revelation about our lives. Praying for you to be guided and protected on this journey.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 28, 2018, 05:17:08 AM
Hi Fly, there was a book I read, string theory, the seven dimensions, or is that eleven?, I play the sitar like if you know what I've changed, souk, bartering with money, integration, it's a choice, anyway, the revolutionary book I read featured a chameleon, which I later wrote a song about, are your conscious of the image that you are projecting, the story said the chameleon was on the wrong side, he was a lizard after all, but lizards are animals aren't they?
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 28, 2018, 05:45:45 AM
The book was called Tales from... but I didn't come phew
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 03, 2018, 12:57:43 PM
So I have a nephew! This is getting very difficult for me after 14 days of no MO. My nephew said it, he loves me I know, and I lost the connection. I need to know how to bring him up. I don't want him looking at porn like me. I have started looking for a woman again :( and I tried to greet a real one, I am very scared. I'm addicted to tobacco, and that is the problem. I can continue without MOing for a few more days at least, but I really need to be more disciplined with tobacco, it is not for money, I beg you, don't help me.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Loving_Mary on March 03, 2018, 04:38:44 PM
So I have a nephew! This is getting very difficult for me after 14 days of no MO. My nephew said it, he loves me I know, and I lost the connection. I need to know how to bring him up. I don't want him looking at porn like me. I have started looking for a woman again :( and I tried to greet a real one, I am very scared. I'm addicted to tobacco, and that is the problem. I can continue without MOing for a few more days at least, but I really need to be more disciplined with tobacco, it is not for money, I beg you, don't help me.

Hi Georgos you can just inform tour nephew about drugs and addictions. And that there's addiction to the internet and porn, just that at least he's got the information while he's clean.

But I beleive the best way of helping him is quitting yourself.

Cause that way while recovered you'll connect much better to the others, icluding your nephew, and also you'll have a lifestile which he can learn about.

Cause we all have to make changes in our lifes in order to recover. It's our lifestile and approach which has strenghten the addcition

Cheers
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 08, 2018, 03:05:27 PM
So today I MO'd. I think it was about 18 days this time, which is better than last. Got to keep increasing the distance between MOing without putting too much strain on my reboot. A bit disappointed, but still progressing. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Loving_Mary on March 08, 2018, 06:12:29 PM
So today I MO'd. I think it was about 18 days this time, which is better than last. Got to keep increasing the distance between MOing without putting too much strain on my reboot. A bit disappointed, but still progressing. Thank you.

You did well man, 18 days is a long time

As long as you stay away from P everything is good.

Cannot advise you against M cause I don't know how to do it.

But man, sounds that you're doing good.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 12, 2018, 11:38:16 AM
So I had to look back to see when I last MO'd even though it was only four days ago, because I'd lost track of counting. I realised that it is important at this stage to keep track of the days between MO because I started to lose focus on soft mode and started thinking about how long it had been since I looked at P. Obviously the aim is to go as long as possible without MO, but if I really need to MO to release the pressure, I will. Having said that, five days abstinence is still the absolute minimum I'm prepared to consider without fear of tumbling into a downward spiral. The first five days, ten days, etc are the hardest. I'm aiming at 21 days this time, a slight increase on last time, and I believe I can do it. Have just come out of two weeks pretty intense altered states of psychosis, and I know at such a time I am vulnerable. I need to ground myself in some activities that will keep me sane, still not sure what those might be. At the moment just trying to coast through the days, but I'm still feeding the remnants of my psychosis through my use of the internet. I'm not against the internet, but other than this site, I'm not really using it in a helpful way at the moment. As I said, I need to ground myself. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 12, 2018, 12:54:22 PM
Going to write some more today. Have been feeling thoughts of looking at P. I'm not worried about today as I'm just about to go out for the evening with no access to the internet. However it is important that tomorrow I stay clean. Tomorrow will be the fifth day. I really don't want to MO so soon. I've got a date in the evening tomorrow, so perhaps that is what has been triggering relapsing thoughts. Looking at P would completely ruin my date, turning me into a gibbering wreck, so it is out of the question. The thoughts have been typical relapse thoughts, memories of how I used to feel with the promise of something new. If they continue I will allow myself to MO before the 21 days are up, however for now I'll try to keep on going. This is soft mode after all, so MO is always possible if not actually desirable. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 13, 2018, 12:55:30 PM
So thoughts of P have been entering my head. This is partly because I can think of nothing productive to do, and I sort of crave the reset that usually spurs me into applying myself to bettering myself. In a strange way, in the past PMO has acted to ground me by focusing my full attention on stopping doing it. Of course the reality is that this neurotic cycle of PMOing then desperately trying to stop is one of the key factors in me developing paranoid schizophrenia which lead to this complete rut that I am in now. I need to be able to ground myself naturally, and also spur myself into bettering myself and my situation naturally as well. I could MO. Today is the fifth day without MO so it is not completely out of the question. However I still want to go 21 days. I've got social engagements today, tomorrow and the day after, so remembering that, should be enough to keep me clean, as I know that I am awful in social situations if I relapse. Hopefully by then I will have a clear head. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 14, 2018, 11:06:07 AM
Another day completely clean. My mind has been tormented by thoughts of searching for P. I do not give in though. I need to get to the stage where it is thoughts of MO that tempt me, not PMO. Novelty is the big factor in PMO searching. The act of searching and being surprised by something new is the hit that I have craved. Today is the sixth day. As I said, I have social engagements today and tomorrow, and then one more on Saturday. Still suffering from lack of concentration to occupy myself with things. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Loving_Mary on March 15, 2018, 05:56:29 PM
Another day completely clean. My mind has been tormented by thoughts of searching for P. I do not give in though. I need to get to the stage where it is thoughts of MO that tempt me, not PMO. Novelty is the big factor in PMO searching. The act of searching and being surprised by something new is the hit that I have craved. Today is the sixth day. As I said, I have social engagements today and tomorrow, and then one more on Saturday. Still suffering from lack of concentration to occupy myself with things. Thank you.

Hi. I've been thinkkng about doing it, lately. Nothing seriuous.

But I think those mini concessions are not good.

I know how it feels to be tormented by thoughts.

Ir you can, just stop with those thoughts, the're dangerous.

I think it's better to think about what are you're goals and what makes you happy.

If you don't have them, maybe it would be good to try many new things so that you can see if you like them, menawhile your mind is busy with clean things.

Peace man, there's peace after the storm.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 01, 2018, 04:23:31 AM
Everything is political said Stokely Carmichael. God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference. This is the true nature of politics. One of the greatest realisations of the Panthers was that revolution has to take place within the law. So what is the law on pornography? Law is very different from ritual. Ritual is something that you do over and over again, law is deciding when to stop. It may surprise you to know that even mathematics can be pornographic. However in general it is true that the more abstract an art, the less harmful it is. This is why I always preferred drawings. I stopped drawing my drawings, which were essentially abstract representations of myself, not too dissimilar from anime, though with different aesthetics, when I came across U.S. American interracial drawings. The giant dick is essentially an abstraction, but the politics is very crude, abstractly rapacious, but rapacious non the less. I do not know who draws them, I suspect they are "White", but more likely mixed-"race". I too am mixed-"race", middle-eastern and northern celtic, and know full well the politics of father and mother. Science is based on theories, and theories must be put to the test. The theory of genetic dominance is well discredited, though the scientific community seem to be hesitant to refute it out right. This is in fact a reflection of their incorrect racist corruption. Genes do no dominate one another. An article explaining this can be found here:
http://ezinearticles.com/?How-Genes-Really-Work:-There-Is-No-Such-Thing-As-A-Dominant-Gene&id=7248058
Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 02, 2018, 04:24:14 AM
Hi everyone, am not crazy, just got verbal diarroahe, worried about my responsibilities to the community :(
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 04, 2018, 04:43:55 AM
I am whiteish

So let us leave the four-colour theorem for a minute and look at the evidence,

I myself always willingly paid more tax than I was asked to, not because I was white with fear but because I wished to help, charity is both Christian and Muslim which are my roots.

When I had my breakdown I realised who was charging the tax, I became a "Charlie" to use a Cypriot racial slur, but I also joined EOKA B as a communist, such a position is of course schizophrenic, originally I was diagnosed with CyCoSIS, then I was rebranded paranoid whilst I maintained I was schizophrenic, finally I was described as schizo-affective, personally I believe I am Love-Shy a term coined by the Psychiatrist Dr. Gilmartin.

I have been paying tax in several bands at different times, perhaps I was white, perhaps I will be again, I never said I was black, though my lungs are getting that way, but I did say I was Afro-Asian, in line with the historical ties of my ancestors,

Why did I have my breakdown, because the four-colour theorem was applied and there was no room for M.E.,

How can I say I am white? I can say I am European, a Greek word, but it is not strictly true, if you research what the word means,

I can say I have formed an alliance with the European Union, even being admitted, but I have not severed my other ties,

With regards to police brutality, of which I am prone, everyone knows there are degrees of difference between policing and taxing, different genders, and different orientations,

My flatmate says he wishes to be white, I wish to be free,

It is inpossible :p

p.s. what is porn if not a tax?
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 05, 2018, 10:39:47 AM
Getting really paranoid, Turkish soldiers in my local café, I fear for the staff's life, the waiter is slightly less stupid, he just wants them gone, what is wrong with me; this is dangerous, I can't stay away, I saw them talking to some don, help
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 06, 2018, 05:20:47 AM
So I had a dream last night that I was going to be shot by one of the Turkish thugs (mafiosa) who the army and deep state had employed to take me out, hopefully that means reality has been disposed of in another dimension. Of course they are still there, but they tend to keep to themselves, and I have to stop stirring things between my friend the waiter, who comes from the same region of Turkey as my ancestors, and the actual army who are there for God knows what reason. Does that sound mad? Let it be as Paul McCartney sang. Anyway I'm learning more about love and sex, my new girlfriend keeps trying to guide me into union, but it always ends up as truth or dare, I basically just want her to ask me directly, in a straight forward manner, language is a problem, as I've said in previous posts I kind of want a relationship where the woman talks as straight forwardly as possible, in a hot way, with love, I suppose I need to learn to stop playing melodic duets which are rock, thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 08, 2018, 06:15:49 AM
So reality is becoming ever more apparent, which is fine, but it's not really the purpose of why I came here, being no longer a slave to sedatives of a visual kind, I want to teach others, to create, life, and share with my family, perhaps I don't belong here anymore, my journey is just beginning, some people say I should get into business, others that I should remain a student, but what does the Qwran say, on a journey, I do not ask, in what language, I understand, the meaning is an ocean, the sound a command, how many times must I tell you, with the left hand, thank you.

So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur'anic verse: [Sura 4:24) "And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." That is to say, they are lawful for them when they complete their waiting period. (1479)" Abu Dawud vol.2:2150 p.577. Sex with Captives. The fact that [IT has made it possible to render porn without the use of living things does not take away from the essentially exploitative nature of experimenting on a brain]
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 08, 2018, 11:22:55 AM
Ok, so I was drinking coffee and a pretty girl in a red dress came over to me and asked me for a light, I asked her if she'd asked me before, she said she didn't think so, anyway, she went and sat down and her friend came over, the only problem was I had sensitive ears after years of medication which had opened up my inner ear, so I could hear that she was interested in me and even that she wanted me to come over, everything felt forced, I was too conscious of the decisions being made, in the end, after trying to walk away, I returned and told her that it was lovely to meet her and if she ever asked me for a light again I would give her one. Now this is not a story, this is a real event that happened in my local café this morning. I have my own theories of the statistical chance of two events coinciding, but that doesn't make what I just said any less real.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 09, 2018, 03:56:01 AM
I am getting paranoid that there are people using this forum for purpose other than it be created. If actresses didn't die at 36 then they would start using female Gods. It is not my intention to get them to use Earth?
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 10, 2018, 07:06:25 AM
Not doing much today. Want to be productive in some way but getting caught up on following the news on the internet. Things are quite peaceful where I am but I know there are wars elsewhere. Have to have my blood tested to make sure the medication I'm on isn't damaging me. If I were more independent and spiritually minded I wouldn't bother as in some sense it's just a means of prolonging the course of medication. However, the medication is affective and there are no side effects except a little memory drainage. Hopefully I can be of more use soon. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: FlyPhoenix on May 11, 2018, 02:58:30 AM
Hey Georgos, just popping in to say hello, hope you are well today.

I can relate to getting caught up in news on the Internet, as well as social media and youtube.. not easy, but it's worth giving it our best shot, come up with strategies and reach out for support.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 14, 2018, 10:22:19 AM
Day 0. I've no idea how many days I went this time, I'm guessing over a month, but it could be more like three weeks, I just don't know. It was so great not to count days for the first time in maybe thirty years. And I really thought this time I'd made it. I don't know why I went back. I'm paranoid that someone who has been messaging me has been trying to manipulate me into starting again. If this is true, then he succeeded. Life had been so much more interesting yet manageable, perhaps as a result of the mood stabilizer the doctors added to my medication, so though I was perhaps acting out on my crazy thoughts, it was not uncomfortable for me, at least. I do apologize if anyone else found it uncomfortable though. However, things had run out of steam the last few days, and I'd started to feel urges. This was also in part because I had been coming close to having sex for the first time with someone I knew. I have been feeling pretty devastated all day since PMOing. I cannot go back. That life has nothing to offer me but misery and paranoia. It was hard writing "day 0" here. I know I was happy without PMO. I want that again. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 15, 2018, 05:42:05 AM
Many years ago I remember reading that there were people who thought solitary meditation raised the vibrations of the world taking the world closer to heaven. As a socialist I remember thinking that that was rubbish. I have been thinking about both these points of view recently. Both are true but incomplete, both are required. I'll start again and clarify. What is meant by meditation. If it is the solitary focusing of the mind, then I should have had lots of sex by now, the amount of time I've spent focusing on sexual images. In reality, such focusing simply led to more focused masturbation, isolation, and hell. What was missing was interrelational meditation, the process of raising vibrations through relationships, a socialist ideal. Of course different people mean different things by socialism, some focus on the material aspects, like intercourse, others the spiritual like energy, and indeed both are forms of energy according to Einstein, so really this is a red herring. I have always been good at relativity, however moving into sexual relationships has always eluded me. This is because one doesn't have sexual relations with one's relatives. If we are all related, then we cannot reproduce, according to Einstein, only move or shuffle around in space time. There is of course an escape predicted by his theory, black holes. I don't want to get caught up in linguistics, black holes have no colour, no label, no description, like women, they are untameable by mathematics, and that is how it should be. "I will never understand women", the good men of London used to say, and more power to them. What then is the purpose of mathematics or science or even engineering? Playing games can work, just as a magician can be entertaining, the philosophy of the so called pick-up artists, and as far as entertaining women goes, I have no objection, however honesty is more likely to lead to an empathic relationship, which is also desirable, a combination of the two is the nature of real relationships. Are we ever truly honest? Are we ever truly playing a game? That is the magicians philosophy. I don't want to be a magician, nor do I want to be a robot or a automaton, I don't want to be a puppet with a long nose, I think the problem is I am always engaged in the battle of the sexes, rather than the game of life and I am always trying to discover the rules. Being entertaining as opposed to informing is the struggle that I face. Wish me luck. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 16, 2018, 04:45:05 AM
So I have had the opportunity to have sex practically every day for the last week and each time I have turned it down. Worse than that I relapsed on one day. WTF is the problem with me, if you will excuse me being crude.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 16, 2018, 10:58:50 AM
Relapsed again, that's twice in three days :( It is the same old pattern, around a month's abstinence then back to PMOing every few days. My problems are made worse by PMO, indeed it is one of the roots of all my problems. So why did I return to it? Fear of change and inability to adapt. I got heavily involved with the internet again, and then, when that had reached its natural fullness, I couldn't adapt to a life without it. It is not as if I haven't lived without the internet before. I have done language lessons, maths study, writing my book, meditation and t'ai ji, and more recently taken an interest in alternative medicine. All of these things I could have pursued, had I been able to adapt. However instead, I tried to maintain the momentum when it was clearly gone and was left feeling empty. I now have the opportunity of forming a sexual relationship. I have fear about this. Fear of leaving my Platonic relationships with my friends to form an exclusive relationship with a woman, something which I know would only be temporary, not the relationship itself, but the all-consuming nature of initial romance. I also fear the sexual act itself. I am sure at some point soon I will abstain for at least a month again. I know I can abstain for several times longer. However, unless I can develop my ability to live life, I will never be able to abandon PMO for good. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 17, 2018, 04:27:13 AM
So I have been thinking about the relationship between fun and responsibility. Can responsibility ever be fun? What does it mean to have other people depend on you? Whilst they are asking for things you can already provide, there is pleasure in being the source of assistance, but when they ask for things you can't provide, then there is stress and pressure. Addiction is a way of avoiding the latter, avoiding responsibility, because one is consumed by subservience to oneself. I keep coming back to that phrase "man-child" that someone used. Being a man is about acting responsibly, it is not an obligation, it is a sign of maturity. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 18, 2018, 06:53:13 AM
So I have been thinking about how we acquire knowledge in order to become practitioners. Plato and his predecessors talked about acquiring it directly, downloading it to use the modern parlance, knowledge can be acquired through interactions, which is how I tend to do it, with the internet bitesized and scattered knowledge can be pieced together through the application of short attention spans, reading books requires greater attention, and copying out books by hand requires the greatest. Beyond this is proving things, which is formulating one's intuition into something concrete. There are many things I want to learn, some for my own benefit, others to help others, occupying my time in this way is something that I wish to do, however, I am too reliant on internet interactions, or perhaps I don't have the right contacts, I wish to study many things instead of PMO, and at present the only way I can think of is to buckle down and study books, or rather, this is the only option I have for learning the things I want to learn, but in this internet age of easy interactions and short attention spans, I cannot bring myself to make the transition, to adapt, to solitary learning as opposed to group learning, each one teach one is something that I prefer, I would like there to be a forum for exchanging knowledge at the level that I am at, but that is perhaps impossible what with my schizophrenic experiences of multiple worlds, I will try to make a plan and record it here so that I can maintain a life without PMO but with meaning. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 19, 2018, 05:18:56 AM
So I have been thinking about social interactions some more, sometimes I think I have some kind of autism, though I've done tests and they always come out negative. Maybe I'm psychopathic, not in the horror movie sense, but in the sense that CEO's and con-artists are said to often be. I don't know, all these labels are somewhat meaningless, the connections between neurology, psychiatry and psychology are all made up and far from being coherent. So forgetting labels for the moment, what is the problem? I have always chased relationships since as long as I can remember, way back to when I was five years old or younger, (actually I can remember back to when I was one and a half or two but that is not important), as a teenager it was always me who had to phone up my friends, they never phoned me, though they were always happy to welcome me when I invited myself along to their social engagements, perhaps they couldn't really say otherwise. I think I have always expressed a sort of neediness for social interactions, wanting to be liked and admired, and this has never really gone away. I want to write more about this as it is related to psychosis and PMO. I think it is part and parcel of growing up. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 19, 2018, 04:53:46 PM
Following rnnr, I've opened an account with todoist.com, however I've been down that route before, working on my own in isolation, it is not really healthy. On the other hand manically posting whatever comes into my head doesn't seem to help me engage in team work either, so I need to hone my approach and what I have to offer.

As an aside, the Yi Jing described my current status as follows:

"A white horse with wings is symbolic of winged thoughts that transcend time and space. Thus this person adorns himself inwardly with modern and ancient wisdom; this gives him the external appearance of being superior. Some people therefore are afraid of him and imagine that he will use his knowledge and power for wrong purposes. They see him in an adverse light but he is not what they think. His objective is to cooperate to the maximum extent, using his broad knowledge to be of service and benefit to others."

I'll leave it to you to judge whether this is accurate or not. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 20, 2018, 05:15:40 AM
So, I've been wondering whether teaching is inherently selfish. "We don't need no education!", goes the famous song. In my experience the teacher learns more than the student. "Those that can do, those that can't teach" as the saying goes. But there is something to be said for "each one teach one". What this has to do with pulling one's own weight is what I am concerned about. However, having opened an account with todoist.com I see that there is an option to share projects with others. This is what I need, projects that distract me and help me to learn to work in groups. So if anyone has an idea for a project or wishes to join me in studying mathematics, then drop me a message. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 21, 2018, 03:48:09 AM
So I am back in the flow of No Fap without any thoughts of PMO for which I'm glad. Have set myself small tasks for each day which I can complete within an hour maximum. Did the first yesterday. However, I've been getting very engrossed in my online world, to the extent that I cut short a family gathering yesterday to return to my computer. I don't think this is too healthy, though neither do I think it is that bad, after all many people who work spend all day in front of a screen, but becoming dependent on the online world for living one's life seems a bit on the unnatural side. My new girlfriend is away on holiday and doesn't get back until next week. Hopefully then I'll start spending more time outside. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 21, 2018, 08:23:09 AM
Contemplating the mirror of the world. When to use the sun, the moon or the earth. There are other planets besides, and even so called "black" holes although in reality they are colourless since no light can escape. If I were a woman what would I be concerned about when deciding whether or not to engage with a stranger? Where they fit into my family hierarchy if indeed that is there intention, otherwise they are a threat. Dating in the city is even stranger, one can be in a restaurant and the girl is trying to assess where one fits into the hierarchy of diners. Further, do I elevate her or let her down. It is not that I never compete, but rather that PMO has taught me to be selfish and only compete for myself. I have a lot to learn. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 21, 2018, 09:18:15 PM
So I am still chasing after experiences online, this time non-sexual ones, but chasing never-the-less. I'm worried this will end up being just like PmO where I get the gist but not the actual experience, yet I never wanted to experience the sexual acts of PmO in real life, it was a substitute, whereas here I am really chasing something, though what that is I don't know yet. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 22, 2018, 04:21:18 AM
So I've noticed that some rebooters are focused on cutting social media out of their lives as well, which could be seen as ironic given that we are on a forum. However, this forum is more like the Friend's Meeting House's of the Quakers, where, following George Fox's philosophy one we sit in silence until the spirit moves us to disclose our thoughts to the gathering. One of the 12 steps for recovery from addiction is to join a community. Another is to confess our hidden shame. One of the key principles is anonymity of the community. Coming here provides these things. However, for myself, I feel that one of my aims should be to engage with my friends on Facebook. For all it's drawbacks and sinister backdrop, my friends use it, and it keeps them together, whilst I myself have drifted away. At present I simply cannot use Facebook. Anyone who has seen my posts both in my journal, and more importantly, in others, can see that I haven't got a clue about how to interact socially in groups. Whether this forum can help me learn this, or whether trying to learn this would violate the sanctity of the Friend's Meeting House environment, I don't know. At any rate, I am making it one of my aims to learn how to engage with my friends on Facebook and move into a more comfortable/social mode of existence. As a final note, I should say that I fully get what R_Daniel says about too much meta-analysis, but that is the only mode of existence I know, which is perhaps why I find it difficult to engage socially in groups. Moving away from that requires me to shift my perspective. This post is an indication that I have yet to do that. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 22, 2018, 01:20:49 PM
So I didn't trust my first choice to negotiate internationally for me and all the people thought I was a traitor for taking on the role of ambassador for the united kingdom. Does that sound crazy, it was, had it come to it I would not have been treated well. Now Trump is in charge, things are different, I feel respected more and more and free to do as I please. We are winning, economically if not politically, that is a learning curve for all concerned, but we will win even this, for if not the health service to which I am affiliated will implode into factions fighting over meagre scraps. How many Arabs are there in Cuba for them to claim their services are the best, they are the most expensive, it is all co-operative business at the end of the day, it's just that some people do not appreciate their returns, and why should they when the machine is artificial as I have known all along. Thank you,
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 23, 2018, 05:34:00 AM
So I'm going to try and have a quiet day today. My attempts at engaging with Facebook resulted in my friend deleting the entire conversation from his timeline. Sometimes I can be quite rational in my posts, but after a while I always end up posting mental shit that scares everyone off. I'm probably being meta again. At least posting had kept me away from PMO. I also failed to keep to my schedule of writing my book and updating one of my blogs. I want to start studying and reading again. Onwards. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 23, 2018, 04:30:13 PM
So I was enjoying being Harry, with a shock of red hair, fighting in the international scene for Britain, but then I realised that I couldn't compete with a real Brit, and anyway he got married to an American, which I had actually suggested, except my idea was more central and surrounded by sea. In other words I lost :( Which is a good thing too because all these anti-royalists were starting to believe my fantasy. My joke, after the marriage was that Harry should assassinate William, but it only led to Charles being appointed head of the commonwealth instead of me, which is a good thing I suppose. A test for the Queen, home secretary or foreign minister, which is in the best interests of one's locality, i.e. real life, which is in the best interests of her family, i.e. planet earth. The plastic bottle truce was a bit of a gimmick, but it shows a determination on Vanuatu's part. Come on Charles, you can do better. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 24, 2018, 12:01:45 PM
Wrote a couple of paragraphs of my book today but still getting caught up in developing AI to control the masses, this has to stop. Learned a bit about bacteria which gave me an upset stomach. Too much tobacco and not enough weed. Fasting all day but still drinking liquids. This is America. Thankfully it was all a vibrational experience of God. Tomorrow I will write of my book. Waiting for some reading material to come my way. Money is a bit tight. Still hoping the government will give me a scholarship. Perhaps in the new year I shall teach enough computational performance to gain a position. Thinking about how Frodo threw the ring of power into the earth. The internet shall perish and take those who use it with them. La is for Queen Pluto, Ahh is for the moon. Surprise.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 24, 2018, 12:39:26 PM
Getting to know Haiti is hard. I suspect that ol francais esi tu ta ven, perhaps I should have tried to make love again :(
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 24, 2018, 04:17:47 PM
So I've really been going mental without noticing it. But today it all came back at me and I want to go back to the way things were. I don't know what to do. I'm not PMOing, but I am making crazy talk which is not good. I need to focus, write my book, and stop chasing after power. If I can do that, everything will be alright. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 25, 2018, 06:02:01 AM
So one of the criticisms I read in someone else's journal was about always going "meta". I'm really not sure what a journal's for if not going "meta" except maybe to record what one has been doing. I was told something today by a friend about how being introverted for long periods of time and then trying to be extrovert and love people always leads to a failure of being able to love. I think that's a generalization but it certainly rings true in my case I think. Still waiting for my new girlfriend to come back from holiday. Really must try and write my book today. One of the greatest problems with the internet that everybody knows is how it shortens attention span. I need to do a solid hour at least on my book today. Will try. Still no PMO. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 25, 2018, 06:33:41 AM
Just a quick update, I've been thinking about how I always try and reflect the people I love rather than the people I disagree with. Not only is this cowardice, it is power hungry, because by ignoring the people one disagrees with one is essentially pursuing and building on one's preferences. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 26, 2018, 07:44:32 AM
So here's a strange thing and it doesn't bother me. When me was about sixteen me penis be about seven inches. Me refuse magic, and now me dick is less than five and a three-quarter inches. Ti-growth; lingua
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 27, 2018, 11:43:13 AM
So substituting one addiction for another is a sure sign of madness, PMO was good, interent was good, but I want to be awarded a chair in a University and a salary
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 28, 2018, 07:26:07 AM
So I'm in no hurry to change career, this lifestyle is the only one I know, yet if I'm ever going to support my own children I need to be acknowledged above street level. I doubt such a lifestyle would be any more secure, it would mean different peer groups, different arrangements of society within which I live, revolutionary matters would become even more academic than they are at the moment, but I've come to realise it's all business, turning against the rich without selling out is something I've had to learn. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 29, 2018, 03:56:53 PM
Had a mixed seafood and corn sandwich at one o-clock and eight cups of coffee throughout the day, lost track of smoking cessation, otherwise on track, thank you
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 30, 2018, 02:11:36 AM
So I've been trying to rearrange my life into something that will allow me to have sex with my new girlfriend. Sex for me has to feel just right spiritually, whatever that means, and my new girlfriend has different needs to my first. It should be easy, ostensibly, she appears to be from a much more similar background to me, but that seems to be a blessing and a difficulty at the same time. Politics just won't stay out of it, but I've come to realise that politics is not academic when forming a relationship. Perhaps that's why they say never talk about it on a date. I'm really not sure how to handle conversation with her. That's one of the reason's I decided fasting wasn't for me at this time. However I know that fasting can be beneficial at other times if that doesn't sound too hypocritical. This really is difficult. I try to meet everyone on the level required, why should it make a difference if I date different girls and drink coffee? It's crazy. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 30, 2018, 12:40:05 PM
So dating a girl from my father's background is challenging, the old approaches of Malcolm X or Blockaded Cuba/Occupied Cyprus won't work, it's red she's after and as much as I have experience, I really need to stop smoking. The Mexican prophecy is a start, and certainly the magic mushrooms I acquired second hand were eye opening to nature, however I do wonder if the her past poet friend was really the man he thought he was. Perhaps it is best to think about what we learned in Woodcraft, but it all seems so English to the I, and though we love the British Isles, we have no idea how to put up a wig-wam.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.language is a problem, me done speak Greek an me done speak Japanese, if only our lecturer had an idea of warming the weather we would leave the raised flag standing when we kenen appropriate, I'm really done with this, what I need is to earn a living and a wife with support from a teaching research bank, with my pensions sorted and my finances under lock and key perhaps mydelmon could even form a family, phila
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 31, 2018, 03:48:39 PM
So I managed to get 168 pounds overdrawn as of today according to my cash machine. I'm dreading the interest. I have three to four days left. My money comes to me soon. I don't know why I was considering trying to get a job as an anthropologist. Security for the future I suppose, but the time is here and now. Looking after business is a must for any young entrepreneur, I'm happy working with my friends all over the world to make life better. Still psychotic, dreaming the dream, and relaxing. Hope all is well with you guys and the banks realise the error of charging interest on investments that are of benefit. Hope that I can live up to the benefit that I have promised. And finally hope that I survive by only taking as much as I need. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on June 01, 2018, 12:09:33 PM
Georgos, I haven't visited here in a long time. You gotta know this: you sound freakin' off the planet half the time! You need to discipline your mind, stop thinking in circles and get back to basics. My grandmother has schizophrenia, and so do a couple of my friends. One thing they all have in common is that they are always trying to think their way out of every situation: look deeper, see what others can't see, uncover the secret key to fulfilment. It's an illusion, man. Fulfilment comes through self-control, self management, consistency, constancy. Don't go with so many impulses of thought, that is paralysing to your actions and stability. It's frightening to those who are near to you. Even for schizophrenics, you have to sort the illusions from the reality. We all carry a lot of illusions, but deciding how to live must be based on what is real, enactable, realistic - otherwise we don't stick to it. When we don't stick to it, anxiety and confusion builds and we become desperate for answers rather than living in a measured way and letting answers find us when we are ready. Schizophrenics with high self-discipline can become adept and recognising their hallucinations and moderate how they react to them. Thoughts can be as seductive as porn. The dopamine highs are there too in the wildly oscillating mind - escalation of thoughts, intriguing connections that only you can see - it's a thought whirlwind that is addictive, or habitual at least - a thought modality that seems to offer more hope than acceptance or calm ever could. But it's a deceptive seduction. We don't find calm and connection this way. Our thoughts and actions need to be kept in check to remain compatible with others, and to retain connections. Real change is accomplished by gradual evolution not revolution. Building in daily practices of discipline is good, but disciplining the mind is just as important. Be mindful of seductive thoughts that you know lead you away from calm and into unchecked frenzies. Something to consider. I'll stay away again, if you wish, but I don't know if you have anybody else giving you any feedback, so I thought I'd take the chance. Take care man.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 02, 2018, 06:09:57 PM
Malando, your feedback is always welcome. I have tried disciplining the mind with so many methods, today I went and saw an old friend and that helped a little to take me back into experiencing normality. It had definitely got too much, I had started seeing the people much like the nucleus of an atom would observe its electrons according to quantum mechanics, and that was way over the top. But most of this came from trying to dig myself out of my current situation or rather pull myself up by the boots. There was no need, I am very happy with my situation at the moment most of the time, I guess I just need to have faith that I will always be secure, though change will always happen in moderation hopefully. I am aware that I have been all over the place on this journal recently, but I am so grateful that I am not counting days and not looking at porn, so I have reasoned that posting crazy stuff is a definite improvement. However the last thing I want to do is scare people. Today I mostly slept, besides seeing a friend, and wrote a little of my book. Things are looking up, whatever you say, but thank you once more for writing and please do feel free to post here whenever you feel you have something helpful to say. I certainly appreciate the reality check and want you to know that your posts are amongst the most helpful to me, so thank you. You're also a shining example of someone who has succeeded and that is great. Cheers.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 04, 2018, 05:28:31 AM
Day 0. I don't know what to write.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 04, 2018, 12:01:21 PM
So the important thing after a relapse is to move on without slipping back into regular PMO. Tomorrow should be easy. I have a doctor's appointment in the middle of the day so that should frame the day without PMO. The second or third day is usually when the chaser effect kicks in so I will have to be wary. After that its just a matter of having other things to distract the mind. As Malando told me, disciplining the mind is also important. Addressing the balance between distracting and disciplining the mind is something that I need to do practically. I am financially secure again, though this week I will have to live on a tight budget. I also need to address my sexual performance and relationship issues, though I am hoping that these will be resolved naturally with my new girlfriend. Again the key is perhaps practical solutions rather than analytic. Anyway, I keep on moving onwards. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on June 05, 2018, 12:23:54 AM
So the important thing after a relapse is to move on without slipping back into regular PMO. Tomorrow should be easy. I have a doctor's appointment in the middle of the day so that should frame the day without PMO. The second or third day is usually when the chaser effect kicks in so I will have to be wary. After that its just a matter of having other things to distract the mind. As Malando told me, disciplining the mind is also important. Addressing the balance between distracting and disciplining the mind is something that I need to do practically. I am financially secure again, though this week I will have to live on a tight budget. I also need to address my sexual performance and relationship issues, though I am hoping that these will be resolved naturally with my new girlfriend. Again the key is perhaps practical solutions rather than analytic. Anyway, I keep on moving onwards. Thank you.
Excellent, Georgos! That's exactly the right attitude.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 05, 2018, 08:31:13 AM
So practical things. I'm not really very good physically, although quite good at T'ai Ji, I don't have much muscle strength. That's one of my worries with sexual performance. I need to make my bed. At the moment I'm sleeping on a bare mattress. I don't know whether writing my book counts as practical. I don't intend to publish it, at least not for a long time, but I do want to complete it, and want to write more. Reading is also something I want to do, as is brushing up my maths and science theory. The trouble is I drift through life, adapting as best I can to the changing environment and never planning anything, except at the last minute. I'm not the sort to stick to time-tables. I don't want to force anything, but Malando is right, disciplining the mind is a must. I think I'll try and return to the todoist.com website again, but I need to set realistic goals. Anyway, day one is going well as always. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 06, 2018, 06:22:32 AM
So day 2. I need to help put my brother's tent away which has been drying in the garden. I need to make my bed. After seeing the miracle of the hilal moon I am fasting, though still drinking coffee. I need to write some more of my book and buy some olive oil, honey, and apple cider vinegar for my throat. I need to write a letter as well and revise differential equations and complex analysis. Not everything needs to be done today. The best thing is to start planning a time table. Exercise is another item that I want to incorporate into my daily routine again. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 07, 2018, 11:37:14 AM
So nothing much to report today. Spent most of the day snoozing. Wrote some more of my book yesterday, but so far none today. Not beating myself up for not having any energy to do anything, but vaguely aware that I could if I could only put my mind to it. Am reasonably happy. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 08, 2018, 03:49:10 AM
Chaser effect kicked in as I predicted, and I edged yesterday very very briefly to some P, before turning it off pretty sharpish. Problem always the same, resisting doing anything productive due to apathy. I've moved away from politics these last few days and trying to focus on the here and now. The world seems to be chugging along quite happily around me and so I don't see the need to engage. Politics generally gives me purpose, if only to try and win, or at the other extreme balance out conflicting views. Without it I'm left feeling purposeless. I still need to make my bed and tidy my room. I've made a list of things I want to do on todoist, but I haven't found the energy to do them, not even a few press ups in the morning :( Some things require more creativity, some things require more discipline. Really need to make a start. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Loving_Mary on June 08, 2018, 09:14:35 AM
Chaser effect kicked in as I predicted, and I edged yesterday very very briefly to some P, before turning it off pretty sharpish. Problem always the same, resisting doing anything productive due to apathy. I've moved away from politics these last few days and trying to focus on the here and now. The world seems to be chugging along quite happily around me and so I don't see the need to engage. Politics generally gives me purpose, if only to try and win, or at the other extreme balance out conflicting views. Without it I'm left feeling purposeless. I still need to make my bed and tidy my room. I've made a list of things I want to do on todoist, but I haven't found the energy to do them, not even a few press ups in the morning :( Some things require more creativity, some things require more discipline. Really need to make a start. Thank you.

Hi Georgos

I think it's good you made your list.

Maybe start with the easiest things

Take care
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 09, 2018, 04:52:19 AM
So had some inspiration about the maths problem I've been working on since my undergraduate years. Hopefully I can make some more progress. Had a talk with one of my internet friends yesterday and he said my craziness was putting too much pressure on the forum that I was banned from and I needed to take a break. Trouble is I get bored easily and I find it hard to tear myself away from reading that forum because it is so exciting. Trying to migrate to some forums that are more suited to me like the spiritual forum, though to be honest that seems just like a lot of empty words, and the maths forum, though that is really tough. This forum is perfect as it is without becoming a talking shop which would ruin the therapeutic nature of it, but for that reason it doesn't satisfy my needs for excitement, which is exactly the point I suppose. As I've said in previous posts, I'd much rather be using Facebook than forums to connect with my old friends, but my schizophrenia has taken me so far away from the experiences of my friends, that anonymous forums of marginal people (no offence intended) seem to be the only internet outlet for me making connections. Anyway, hopefully I can progress into mainstream society slowly but surely, taking baby steps towards a better life. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 10, 2018, 11:56:53 AM
So had an early start today. Spent some time with family which was nice. Life goes on at a slow pace. Feeling relaxed. Need to write some more of my book and do my exercises. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Andy9120 on June 10, 2018, 04:46:17 PM
Sounds like a lovely day buddy!  I am trying to write a book too.  Hope yours goes really well!
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 11, 2018, 04:58:44 AM
So I've pulled out of having sexual relations with my girlfriend. We just weren't synching politically. We're both mentally ill and both her parents are from the same background as my father. The politics wasn't abstract, it was real, and that was the problem. We were both just reacting to reality in asynchronous ways and that felt problematic for us both. She was really keen, but she couldn't handle me and was getting really frustrated with me, whereas I was nervous and kept pushing emotionally the wrong way. Maybe we'll work it out. It's not my only option at the moment, but the other girl I was trying to see was also not ideal. Don't get me wrong, I know no relationship is perfect all the time, part of the problem definitely stems from years of PMO abuse, I need to work through these issues somehow, just without damaging my world any more than it is damaged already. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 12, 2018, 03:20:04 AM
So wrote some more of my book yesterday, going to try and write some more today. Started my course for learning mental health peer support. Eventually I want to run some recovery classes teaching maths. I have no plans for today, just have to try and fill the time as best I can. There are some things I'd like to do, but am not disciplined enough to sit down and do them. At any rate, I'll try to move forward. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 13, 2018, 11:53:22 AM
So another day successfully completed. Spent the day without any real direction, just randomly searching for different snippets of information. My attention span is really limited. This is partly because of my condition and partly from overuse of the internet. PMO probably played a part too in teaching me to seek instant gratification. In some ways it is not a bad way of learning, but some things require discipline and prolonged concentration. I wrote some more of my book today which is good, but what I really want to do is start doing fifteen minutes a day, each morning, revising my undergraduate mathematics. I've done this before, and I can do it again. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 15, 2018, 07:05:38 AM
So another couple of days completely clean. I've started doing my fifteen minutes maths revision every morning. To finish the lecture notes should take me fifty days, which makes a good target for PMO abstinence as well. I'm on 2/50 so far. My aim remains the same, no more P in my life at all. MO is a slightly different kettle of fish. Without being in a sexual relationship, I don't know if I can ever give up MO completely. However that should be my aim as well, to get into a sexual relationship and stop MO as well. But one cannot force such a thing, it has to come naturally, so it is only an aim in the loosest of senses. With this in mind, I must make sure that if I ever do MO it is without P. I have tried in the past to practice MOing without P and I can do it, however, I haven't been disciplined, MOing almost every other day, and eventually I've returned to PMO. The biggest hurdle is forcing myself to MO when I finally break my abstinence instead of returning to PMO. I think this is where setting targets could help. If I say that I won't PMO or MO for the next forty eight days then allow myself to MO the day after that, then I might be able to realign myself. In the meantime I need to address some of my fear and anxiety over real sex, but I think the best way to do that is through relationships. I'm not sure if sex therapy would help, but I can't afford it at the moment any way. Ok, so the plan is forty eight days more abstinence then MO. Wish me luck. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 16, 2018, 03:15:13 PM
Day 0. 12 days without PMO gone. I need help. Coming on here has normalized my addiction. I don't want to still be searching for P when I'm forty. Yet I hardly care anymore, because I know I have somewhere I can talk about these things and get them off my chest. I don't feel so alone in my struggle anymore. Plus it's not as if I'm PMOing every day. 12 days or 18 the time before are not insignificant numbers, yet they are nothing compared to 150 days which I have done before. Like I said, I need help. I need something to help me stay motivated for reaching large goals. A kick up the backside from someone who's been through it already. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 17, 2018, 02:04:00 PM
So the first day is always easy. Day two should be easy too as I have activities planned throughout the day. If I can get through day three then there is a good chance I can make it another ten days or so. But you see how my thinking has changed. I'm not thinking in terms of the big numbers anymore. Not even a month really. This is partly because as I said in my last post, this journal has normalized my addiction for me to some extent by providing me with a community with which I can share my experiences. The other reason is because I have resigned myself to MO. I need to be able to MO without P, but saying that I am allowed to MO has dampened my resolve to quit for good. I really don't know how to move from PMO to just MO. I keep making plans but never manage to stick to them. In the past year I've looked at P several time without MOing  and MOd several times without looking at P, but in both cases the frequency between these activities has been pretty high. Plus, I've always returned to PMO. One could see all this as some sort of progress, since before I would always just PMO, whereas now I am learning to split MO from P, but it seems a long and slow process. Ideally I wouldn't be looking at P at all. That's what I really want. No P. In fact, ideally I'd have no MO either and a strong and healthy sex life with a partner. I just don't think it's possible for me. So I've fallen back to thinking about how I can learn to MO without P. Fifty days was perhaps a bit ambitious, I don't know why I'm saying that since I know I can go that length of time, but that has been with a mindset of saying never again. With the mindset of saying that I'm allowed to MO at the end of it, I don't know how long I can go. I'm going to try for ten days and MO at the end of that. Don't know what I will do after that, but that will literally be the longest I have ever gone finishing with MO instead of PMO and that is important. It sounds trivial, it is not, MOing instead of PMOing is an important aim for me, because it is P that brings me the biggest shame. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 18, 2018, 03:41:12 AM
So 10 days to go. I'm going to count down everyday. 10 days is not long. I can easily do it. I must do it. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on June 18, 2018, 05:07:42 AM
Good luck, Georgos, I'm in your corner and thinking of you. Even though you've relapsed a few times, I do like the way you are structuring your thoughts now compared to the last couple of months. I think you are thinking in a more rational, practical and structured way and this will lead to good things for you.

Take care, mate.
Malando.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Prometheus on June 18, 2018, 05:25:51 AM
19days,Brother, bless you, we're together
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 18, 2018, 12:23:30 PM
So I did my fifteen minutes maths revision today. That is four days running out of around fifty. Will keep a counter on that here too. As I said this morning, there are ten days left till I will MO. I need to stay focused on this. I'm thinking that maybe I can go a whole month, MOing every ten days, and if I can do that maybe I can do six months, and then maybe a year. For now I need to stay focused on my goal. Ten days complete abstinence followed by MO. I have almost finished the first day. I will update twice a day if not more to make sure that I complete this goal. I can do it. I must do it. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 18, 2018, 04:34:44 PM
So another day completely clean. Nine days to go till I can MO. It really is important to me to discipline myself to MO and not PMO. Wrote some more of my book. Hopefully write some more tomorrow. Nine more days. I can do it. I must do it. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 19, 2018, 04:32:39 AM
So nine days to go. Last night I couldn't sleep. I was excited thinking this year I'm going to break this addiction. I'm going to recover from schizophrenia, no more relapses. I was thinking about all the things I could do with my time. Planning a busy schedule. It was a case of trying to run way too fast before I can walk. Still it is something to aim at. I can do fifteen minutes maths revision every day no problem. Yet I want to do an hour or an hour and a half every day. I want to do exercise, acting classes and piano lessons. All these things. And still write my book. That would fill my days up completely. I know I would never be able to sustain it as things are, yet I was thinking of doing these things for a whole year or more. Why? Partly because doing just fifteen minutes a day leaves me with a lot of time where the potential to relapse was there. The other reason is because as so often happens, I was seized by a desire to make something of my life instead of wasting it doing nothing as I have been doing. But neither is real. When I was working, I still PMOd, especially because I got tired, and as for wasting my life, there is nothing compulsory about life, although some situations leave us with limited options. I am living and that is good enough. So anyway, nine days to go and I will move forward. I will do it. I must do it. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 19, 2018, 05:36:30 PM
Another day completely clean. Eight days to go. Did my fifteen minutes maths revision this morning (day five out of fifty). Read a chapter of a book as well. Need to stay focused on my goal. I want to remind people that it is possible to go many months with no P or MO, I know this because I have done it, but my goal at the moment is to go many months with regular MO and no P, for reasons which I have stated previously. I will do it. I must do it. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Prometheus on June 19, 2018, 09:47:57 PM
Bless you! My brother.
You have made great progress.
M is prohibited in Buddhism and Christianity. I hope you will be careful.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 20, 2018, 03:43:36 AM
Thank you Prometheus! So there are eight days to go now. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 20, 2018, 04:04:32 PM
So another day completely clean. Seven days to go. Did my fifteen minutes maths, read a chapter of a book, and wrote a little throughout the day. I really think I have a better chance of conquering this addiction if I can switch to MO long term instead of PMO. I will do it. I must do it. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 21, 2018, 03:42:59 AM
So seven days to go. I am completely in the nofap zone. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Prometheus on June 21, 2018, 06:54:09 AM
Fantastic
Yes, we should focus on progress, not perfection.
Without pornography, we will live better
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 21, 2018, 04:04:09 PM
So six days to go. Almost half-way. Did my fifteen minutes maths and read a chapter of a book today. Ten days abstinence may not seem like much but it is not an insignificant amount of time and if I can stick to only MOing once every ten days then hopefully I can leave my P habit/addiction in the past. So six days to go. I will do it. I must do it. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 05, 2018, 09:08:02 AM
So some progress. I don't want to jinx it by writing here. I took the step to stop writing as the forum was becoming a place where I went to each time after I failed to find solace rather than helping me to succeed. It was sort of legitimizing my failure by sharing it with other people who were also caught in the trap of endless abstinence and relapse. This is a purely personal issue. Certainly, joining the forum and reading other people's journals has inspired me to abstain for the longest periods that I have in my life, but as I said, after the initial successes, it was simply becoming a place for me to seek acceptance after a relapse, leading me to accept that I would always relapse in the future. The challenge for me at the moment is to cut P out of my life, which I will do this year. I don't want to be forty and still seeking my sexual satisfaction through searching for P. I've noticed myself ogling much more recently, which hasn't helped. At first I thought it was somewhat liberating, not being ashamed to look at women in the street because I was ashamed of my addiction, but now I realize it is wrapped up in the same warped mentality of seeing sexual interaction as being primarily voyeuristic and external, not interacting with or respecting the true human being. I think there is a difference between ogling and communicating, and there is also a level of integrity with communication that is good to strive for. Fantasizing is another problem, especially after so much corruption stemming from P. Indeed my problems started with fantasizing and grounding my sexual experiences in the fantasy world rather than real mutually satisfying communication. At this stage I simply cannot imagine having a sexual relationship with a woman. I simply don't believe I am in a situation that allows me to provide for their emotional needs. Since joining the forum I have had several Platonic relationships, but since none of them crossed the barrier into sex, the level of emotional support that was required of me was only marginally more than friendship. So some progress and some challenges. Will update when I have made some significant inroads into cutting out P. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on September 05, 2018, 03:05:49 PM
Best wishes on your journey, Georgos.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 05, 2018, 04:21:52 PM
Thanks malando, I don't know whether this is the place to discuss this but it probably is. One of the problems I face is that I have pretty much resigned myself to being single for the foreseeable future, not because I don't want sexual relationships but because I feel that I am simply not equipped to have one. Years of instant gratification means that I am accustomed to the dopamine release of sexual stimulation as following an instant decision to engage in the act. That is simply not how real relationships work. There is a line in a Friends episode where Chandler says to Joey after they have had access to free porn tv for several days, "I know, I can't believe it, this woman walked into my office and she didn't immediately start having sex with me", or something like that, followed by "dude, we've got to switch the porn off". This is how I feel. It makes me more introverted and scared to initiate any kind of sexual advance. This is why it felt liberating to ogle, as at least it was letting women know I found them sexually attractive. On the other hand, having had one real relationship and some Platonic ones, I've come to realise how much one needs to give emotionally to sustain a partnership and that has further made me feel insufficient to have a real partner. My life experiences which led me to being diagnosed first with psychosis, then paranoid schizophrenia, then schizo-affective disorder, has left me in a condition where it is hard to imagine supporting someone emotionally, let alone materially. Thus I no longer believe that I want to have a relationship with someone, having resigned myself to my imagined reality. All of this is because of years of P abuse. The choice that I have come to believe I have is to either continue down the same path I have been going, or hope that through abstinence things will get better and new opportunities will arise as I recover. The latter is obviously the better path, but it is also the harder one, in the sense that my life will no longer contain instant gratification. I am now approaching forty and it seems to me that the chances of having a family in the future are slim, however continuing to debase myself by searching for P can only make things worse. I need patience, but I also need to start energising positive things in my life. I am still doing fifteen minutes of maths a day and hope to move up to thirty soon. Ideally, I'd like to start teaching at university level again. However, from past experience, I know that rushing things can set oneself up for failure, the main thing is my sanity which I am taking all possible measures to preserve. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on September 05, 2018, 04:42:28 PM
I understand your situation, Georgos, and I feel for you. You have a whole extra layer of complexity in your life that most of us don't have, with your schizophrenia. That does make it hard to feel like you can be there for somebody the way you imagine they want you to be. And with the majority of women, that's probably true, but I wouldn't necessarily say that there's no woman who can deal with your condition. Not every woman needs a partner who's 100% reliable. There are casual relationships where the woman doesn't need you to be there all the time. There are women who are dealing with their own set of issues and require time and space for that. For every situation you have, there is a woman in the same situation. So maybe you might consider that finding somebody more similar to yourself, who understands what you're going through and changes her expectations to suit, might be a practical way to think about this. Of course, two people with schizophrenia, for example, being together in a relationship might be unpredictable, to say the least - but who's to say it couldn't work? People with your condition need sex, love, affection, company too, right? Maybe by considering a partner with similar issues to yourself, you also hugely reduce the anxiety of whether she will accept you as you are. The common understanding might actually bring you more comfort, more ease, more acceptance than you could get from somebody whom you consider to be "normal" but likely to bail out on you when the going gets tough.

You are a good man, Georgos - schizophrenia or not. I like you. I think we'd be friends if you lived in my neighbourhood. You deserve to have somebody in your life. You just have to choose somebody who can accept and understand your unique circumstances. These women are out there, trust me, I've met them. My sister is one of them - she's told me that "normal" guys get scared of her episodes and tend to leave. She wishes she could meet somebody with the same problems so they could accept each other and not be worried about trying to be normal all the time to reassure the other person. Something to consider for the future when you're ready.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 13, 2018, 12:29:43 PM
Thank you Malando for your kind words once again, you really are a very positive presence on this forum. Once again I am hesitant to write here in case it becomes an excuse for continuing the cycle of chronic relapsing. Reading Allen Carr's Stop smoking books makes you realise that with addictions it really is just about making a definitive choice to stop and not keep returning to that choice to question it. When you are still trying to arrive at that choice it can be helpful to share your deliberations with a community, but once you've made the choice, there will be no going back. I have made one choice already but still have a couple more to make. Hence I am back here. I want P out of my life, but wanting and choosing definitively are not the same thing. I cut P out of my life, but still I find moments when I choose to return, however briefly, to what deep down I know is self-destruction. That is where I am at. I know some people might find it insulting to frame addiction as a choice or a series of choices. Choosing under duress is obviously more difficult to manage than a free choice, but nevertheless I think it is quite empowering to see that we do have the choice if only we can make it. I want to make the choice to leave P in the past. At the moment I have chosen to abstain from P for as long as possible. That is not the same thing. Knowing that it is out there, knowing that it gives me a certain feeling, however temporary or bad for me, and knowing that I have done it in the past, all conspire to thwart my ability to choose definitively to stop for good. I am abstaining and experimenting with life without P, but I haven't yet chosen to live that way for ever. I know this because I still have doubts about my decision and its sustainability. I am still challenging myself to make the definitive choice. I know I will make it someday. Hopefully before I am forty. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Loving_Mary on September 15, 2018, 12:17:51 PM
Thank you Malando for your kind words once again, you really are a very positive presence on this forum. Once again I am hesitant to write here in case it becomes an excuse for continuing the cycle of chronic relapsing. Reading Allen Carr's Stop smoking books makes you realise that with addictions it really is just about making a definitive choice to stop and not keep returning to that choice to question it. When you are still trying to arrive at that choice it can be helpful to share your deliberations with a community, but once you've made the choice, there will be no going back. I have made one choice already but still have a couple more to make. Hence I am back here. I want P out of my life, but wanting and choosing definitively are not the same thing. I cut P out of my life, but still I find moments when I choose to return, however briefly, to what deep down I know is self-destruction. That is where I am at. I know some people might find it insulting to frame addiction as a choice or a series of choices. Choosing under duress is obviously more difficult to manage than a free choice, but nevertheless I think it is quite empowering to see that we do have the choice if only we can make it. I want to make the choice to leave P in the past. At the moment I have chosen to abstain from P for as long as possible. That is not the same thing. Knowing that it is out there, knowing that it gives me a certain feeling, however temporary or bad for me, and knowing that I have done it in the past, all conspire to thwart my ability to choose definitively to stop for good. I am abstaining and experimenting with life without P, but I haven't yet chosen to live that way for ever. I know this because I still have doubts about my decision and its sustainability. I am still challenging myself to make the definitive choice. I know I will make it someday. Hopefully before I am forty. Thank you.

Hi Georgos sounds you feel better and that you are working a lot on yourself. Keep it up. Cheers.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 18, 2018, 02:46:14 PM
So I'm still struggling with apathy and indifference to life, so called "negative" symptoms of schizophrenia, this despite being "positive" symptom free for the past three months. Note, "positive" and "negative" don't imply "good" and "bad" but rather those symptoms that cause someone to be "active" or "inactive". I'm doing fifteen minutes a day maths, and as of tomorrow I want to increase it to half-an-hour, but I have my doubts about this still. I MOd a couple of days ago which caused me to flirt with the thought processes that usually lead to so called "positive" symptoms, and it took me a while to realise the connection. Still not searching for P though. As much as apathy and indifference stem from the condition of schizophrenia, they also stem from the way MO wires the brain for instant gratification. Doing fifteen minutes a day of maths is great because it makes me feel like I've accomplished something each day, without much effort. However every time in the past I've tried half-an-hour a day I haven't been able to sustain it as the effort has caused mental anxiety. I really need to deal with this and I don't know what to do. I am hoping that as I succeed with my reboot I will have less anxiety in general and be better able to manage even this small amount of time spent concentrating. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on September 18, 2018, 08:08:02 PM
Hi Georgos, I understand what you are saying about the anxiety of "hurdle" requirements. I have experienced this myself. I think the best way to deal with this is to keep to your 15 minutes of maths, but add the option to do more. Maybe state it as "I will do 15 minutes of maths each day, then I will evaluate whether I can do some more." This allows you to maintain your minimum but allows you to extend yourself to as much as you feel you can handle for that day. Of course it's important that you don't create pressure out of any extra work you do. The extra work is a bonus, it's not required - only do it if you feel motivated to do it. Eventually, if you notice consistently that you are doing 20, 25, 30 min each day, then you are proving that you can maintain more as a minimum and then you can probably increase your daily minimum without too much anxiety - since you will have already proved that you can do it. Just make sure you increase slowly to avoid anxiety and failure.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 15, 2018, 10:57:46 AM
So PMO free since June 21st, P free since September 6th. I continue to progress. Unfortunately I've stopped doing my maths for about a week now. Malando's advice helped at the beginning, I managed nine days of doing the extra amount. But now I've stopped completely. It's not the end of the world, but going back to doing nothing all day without any focus has the potential to make it more likely that I'll relapse, both with P and with schizophrenic symptoms. I've been telling myself that it's ok to take a break, but more and more I've been obsessing about projecting into the future of magic numbers that I'll get to with my reboot. This is not healthy, there are no magic numbers, you simply make the decision to stop, and get on with your life, otherwise you're setting yourself up for a fall. It's ok to count days, but at the end of the day, the decision has to be final and that's that. So I want to get back to doing my maths, but still feel like just drifting. I don't really know how I can get myself in the mood, it's a question of just doing it really. Anyway, progress continues. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 20, 2018, 02:22:25 PM
So next to no psychotic symptoms since about mid June, maybe four hours in total if that. However some things from psychosis stay with you, like believing the world is a dream. Many philosophers, mystics and others have reached the same conclusion, but having actually lived waking life as a dream, one starts to question what one's agency is in all of this. Unbounded absolutes are beyond logical comprehension, so it is pointless asking what one's absolute agency is without knowing the limits, however when one has experienced one's thoughts influencing the world around one consciously, one is left without a firm grasp of the limits, constantly searching for stability in the shifting sand. I am still PMO free and still P free. I made the choice to leave them behind. This much is in my control. But choosing to have a sexual relationship still seems to be beyond me. Is it that I have set limits on myself that prevent me from manifesting such a reality, or is it the limits of the universe, or God, that is preventing me from having such a relationship? Nobody can answer that. We have a relationship with life, life is a relationship, and one that defies logical analysis in the absolute sense as I have already said. I can't help but think that it is the limits I have placed on myself, but at the same time, I don't know how to change these without changing myself so drastically that I would be unrecognisable. Time changes us, so perhaps I shouldn't dwell too much on it, but today I was confronted again with the idea that all possibilities exist, and thus in that absolute sense there is nothing to distinguish one thing from another. I know it is a paradox, I know it cannot be answered, but if it cannot be answered then any answer will do, we can choose to do whatever we like, and choose the consequences as well. It is dangerous thoughts, solipsism at the extreme. I have chosen to leave P in the past, but I haven't chosen to have a sexual relationship yet. Why? I am used to choosing the woman's response either through drawing it which I used to do, or selecting it from searches on the internet as I did later in my life. Such a level of control is not possible with another real human being, or if it is, it is not something that I would feel comfortable about exercising, at best it would be acting like performing in a P movie, and that is what I am trying to get away from. Yet role-play can be part of making love for some people. I think what I really want is love, and I know that sexual stimulus is not love. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive, but I have been making them that way because I reject the years of abuse of sexual stimulus that I have put my body through. Why can't we love ourselves and pleasure ourselves with sexual stimuli at the same time? The problem is that when we look at P we are always involving someone else, and we are involving them at best superficially and at worst in an abusive way. I need to learn how to love someone else in a way that involves sexual pleasure. I don't know what has stopped me all these years, or why I turned to abuse, or was consumed by it. Years ago, when I first broke down, I came to the conclusion that it was because I was from a different ethnic group to the majority of people in my environment. But that doesn't explain everything, and much of the significance of that was of my own making. The fact is that faced with the reality that life is a dream, I don't know what I want except love and to make love. The former I have, the latter I have struggled with. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on October 20, 2018, 07:41:32 PM
Hi Georgos, thanks for sharing your thoughts - very interesting, and it doesn't sound like the thoughts of an irrational or psychotic mind. It was actually very logical what you said. After your experiences I'd be surprised if you weren't uncertain about these things. There are several older male virgins on the forum and they all exhibit aspects of mystification regarding sexual relationships - that is, they have developed thoughts around how unattainable and unrelatable the whole idea of merging your body with another person is. I think this is understandable because there is literally no other experience that is like it. I think you are thinking the right way in terms of finding love and connection first. I can tell you that when you really love somebody, the physical aspect becomes incredibly natural. The blockage is not the sex itself, it's the intimacy, vulnerability and uncertainty of love. That said, love inherently involves taking a chance with your hat. You can't have love, or sex, without giving up something - your solitude, your self-determined universe , your risk management system, your hangups about being unlovable. It requires us to have courage and risk that it might not work out, or that it might be a rocky road sometimes. It's all part of the experience of merging with another person to some degree. So I would say the biggest thing to consider is not how real things seem in the universe, but how to take a less cautious stance in your life. Allow new experiences to enter. You can worry about how real they are later - at this stage of your life you are collecting data, experiencing life. Subjective experiences are fine and dandy - you don't have to objectively verify everything. Try to take a chance sometimes and see where it leads you. Take care, M.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 01, 2018, 12:50:10 PM
So I am P free since September 6th, PMO free since June 21st. Progress continues. I'm trying to resist writing here unless I really have to, in order to avoid moaning, which doesn't help. I have a few things I want to moan about, like not doing my study, drifting again, and starting to obsess about how many days to my next milestone, all of which are counter-productive and could lead to relapse. I don't want to moan, but I do want to address these things. Hopefully, just mentioning them here will help me to fix up and get on with my reboot. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 03, 2018, 02:52:04 PM
So reboot continues, all going well. I have had a tendency to get twittery before milestones so thought I'd write here. I'm also a bit nervous as I'm starting some casual work this week on a trial basis and don't know if I'll be able to cope. Milestones are not really helpful except at the beginning when one is first testing out how long one can abstain, because how long one can abstain is the wrong question ultimately. I've said this before, one simply chooses to stop, and that's it. Even counting days is a reminder that you are still uncertain, so eventually you've got to forget about how many days you've gone and simply live life as the new reformed you. I want to get back to doing my fifteen minutes of maths every day. However, the anticipation of the new work that I'm going to be doing, and fear that I won't be able to manage, has kind of pushed my self-destructive buttons, leading me to resist any of my attempts to start again. I've been told that the maths I've been studying might actually be useful for future projects with the same people I will be working with, so that should be another motivating factor to get on and master it. I've got just under two months left of the year, enough time to make some serious progress. Just need to think positively. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 04, 2018, 03:22:04 PM
So I'm struggling at the moment, not with the reboot, that is going fine, but with focusing on the rest of my life, and in the end that is the whole point of the reboot in the first place. As I mentioned, I'm starting some casual work this week, and I'm dreading it. Given that I haven't even been able to sustain much more than fifteen minutes a day study on my own for more than a couple of months, three hours a day twice a week seems like a big ask for my concentration levels. I should be excited, I wanted this, I wanted to take steps to get out of being institutionalized and have a life I can feel proud of. Stopping doing my study every day has seen a slow erosion of my self-esteem and a return to focusing exclusively on counting days. Basically I waste all day waiting for the next, just so I can add another day to my counter. It's not that I don't want to reach my goal, but actually spending all day just waiting for the day to pass is dangerous as the focus on the time passing makes it more likely I'll relapse in the end. I don't know what to do. Hopefully once the work starts I'll get a better grip, but it's only two days a week and that leaves five days without any focus. I say I don't know what to do, I do know what to do, I should start my study again. But each day I get up and just feel like forgetting about it. By the end of the day I've repeated so many times the number of days I'm on that I'm in danger of just giving up then and there. I've said this before, you just make a choice and stick to it. It's time for me to move on to the next challenges in my life, I just need to get out of this rut. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: imaquitter on November 04, 2018, 06:34:10 PM
Dont give up Georgos! Remember that we are on the sideline cheering you on to continue the marathon, even if you want to give up :)
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 15, 2018, 12:53:58 PM
So my reboot continues. I am P free since early September and PMO free since late June. I want to turn my attention to some of the psychological damage that I have done to myself and try and figure out how best to heal it. One option is just to let time heal the problems and this I am certainly doing. However I have identified a particular problem that I am wondering if there are any psychological short cuts to healing.

I have realised that what paralyses me when I think of approaching a woman or expressing sexual intention even with a woman I am dating or friends with, is that I start to make assumptions about what that woman is thinking or experiencing in my conscious mind. Put another way, my ego starts to make assumptions about what that woman is thinking or experiencing. Of course we always have some working assumptions about the other person, but for healthy relationships these are unconscious or subconscious. Paranoia starts where one has conscious assumptions. Acting inappropriately also starts in this way, which is why paranoia and inappropriate behaviour go hand in hand.

The specific assumptions I make relate to my shame at years of secret PMO abuse. I start to get paranoid that whoever I am talking to can telepathically sense my unhealthy thoughts, and cannot judge which of my thoughts are healthy and which are not, or separate the two. Basically, because I have judged myself to be perverted, I project that judgement onto my assumptions about what the other person is thinking or experiencing.

I believe the first thing I can do is forgive myself. And affirmations or prayers to that affect can help there.

The second thing I can do is start to confess and express this trauma, rather than keep it bottled up. However, I am not brave enough to do such a thing.

I would much rather just wait until it is all a distant memory in the past. But time for relationship forming, at least if I want to have a family, is not on my side, though of course it is at least technically possible for me for many years to come.

I am wondering if anyone else has any thoughts of anything else I could do to deal with these cycles of paranoia and ego assumptions?

Any suggestions would be welcome.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Loving_Mary on December 22, 2018, 06:28:35 PM
So my reboot continues. I am P free since early September and PMO free since late June. I want to turn my attention to some of the psychological damage that I have done to myself and try and figure out how best to heal it. One option is just to let time heal the problems and this I am certainly doing. However I have identified a particular problem that I am wondering if there are any psychological short cuts to healing.

I have realised that what paralyses me when I think of approaching a woman or expressing sexual intention even with a woman I am dating or friends with, is that I start to make assumptions about what that woman is thinking or experiencing in my conscious mind. Put another way, my ego starts to make assumptions about what that woman is thinking or experiencing. Of course we always have some working assumptions about the other person, but for healthy relationships these are unconscious or subconscious. Paranoia starts where one has conscious assumptions. Acting inappropriately also starts in this way, which is why paranoia and inappropriate behaviour go hand in hand.

The specific assumptions I make relate to my shame at years of secret PMO abuse. I start to get paranoid that whoever I am talking to can telepathically sense my unhealthy thoughts, and cannot judge which of my thoughts are healthy and which are not, or separate the two. Basically, because I have judged myself to be perverted, I project that judgement onto my assumptions about what the other person is thinking or experiencing.

I believe the first thing I can do is forgive myself. And affirmations or prayers to that affect can help there.

The second thing I can do is start to confess and express this trauma, rather than keep it bottled up. However, I am not brave enough to do such a thing.

I would much rather just wait until it is all a distant memory in the past. But time for relationship forming, at least if I want to have a family, is not on my side, though of course it is at least technically possible for me for many years to come.

I am wondering if anyone else has any thoughts of anything else I could do to deal with these cycles of paranoia and ego assumptions?

Any suggestions would be welcome.

Thank you.

Hi Georgos,

congratulations for beeing away from P since september. I'm sure that is giving your brain a little rest.

I think it's good that you realise that you've damaged your brain with P. That actually is a motivation for avoiding P in the future.

But I agree that if you feel shame in a bad way, that's not good. When you say you're asuming that other people, in this case women, are judging you the same way you judge yourself, maybe that's a strategy of your mind to double-judge yourself. It's a way of self attack.

What I'm saying is that guilt and shame are a toxic spiral that block our lives and reinforce addiction, cause they make us feel bad and that might be a trigger for PMO, which then leads to more guilt and shame and so on.

So I agree that self forgiveness is crucial. And if we have harmed others it's up to them to forgive us or not. But self forgiveness is an important first step.

I do think affirmations and prayers can help you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw3NyUMLh7Y&index=23&list=PLEVuN6_FDGFlgsztgeIEGBYn5mKlNk2d3&t=0s   

this is a video that helped me a ton on affirmations. She also has a short free course on her website that I've followed and it has worked out for me.

If you're also interested in a spiritual journey through prayer, maybe reading about how to pray or knowing more about your religion could help you. For instance let's say you believe in Jesus, then reading about his life in the New Gospel could be a way of connecting with whom you're praying to.

Expressing your traumas to the right people can defenitily help. Psicologists, this Forum...at least you can take that away from your chest and some pressure may be released. 

I think that if you keep your traumas to yourself and just wait them to go away... the definition of trauma itself doesn't work out like that. They do stay there forever if not healed.

But I've been following your advances for a while and I believe you're connecting more and more with yourself and I think you're doing a good job.

I hope the video I  linked you helps you as much as it helped me.

Cheers

 

Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 26, 2018, 08:18:58 PM
Thanks LM,

Well I went on a date with someone from my father's culture born in my country of birth, on the way there I witnessed several things that made me uncomfortable, mostly to do with telepathy, and its abuse.

I won't go into details but it appeared to me that some people were even taking slaves, and I thought of all the missing children, ironically this is what happened to one of my ancestors I believe who was taken as a child by the Ottomans, so I wasn't particularly enamoured to find out whether my perception was true or not lest I interfered with certain racial/racist karma and brought more problems on myself, I'm not a pig, you know.

Anyway, on the date, we discussed how my friend was learning to read other people, which is how I prefer to refer to telepathy as it sounds less of a sickness. I told her, pushing and pulling, yin and yang, are a choice, and you shouldn't just read anybody, then I told her that my problem was I was good at reading men, but not very good at reading women, which broke the ice.

For a long time I've had fears that the best pullers are "Black" and/or "SoWomen", then I began to realise that it was part of Islamic culture, then Christian, until finally I feared that everyone was pulling apart from me.

Pulling, reading, telepathy, all words for the same thing, except maybe telepathy implies a ballancing of yin and yang, a backwards and forwards, a dance, indeed within yin there is yang and within yang there is yin, so pulling, reading, telepath, are all words for the same thing.

Basically it depends what you do with it, and whether your reading is voluntary or not, same with projection,

Anyway, back to my fears, I fear everyone who reads my thoughts, because as I said, I have great shame, I also believe that I might be Jesus and I know how he ended up, didn't his father sacrifice him for mankinds sins!

I have encountered much scarier readers than "Blacks" who I generally get on well with since they have no fear, the worst are the informers, those who signed the official secrets act, and are frightened of sharing anything less they appear in the Sun and are prosecuted on arranged charges.

I don't know what the numbers are in the UK, they say that in East Berlin it was one in four, I am starting to believe that might be true here too :(

Amyway, my shame comes from childhood when I was first exposed to advertising and women,

I knew what sex was, but was unable to control the energy of my schoool friends who teased me for being popular with the girls aged four.

Since then I have always thought it wrong to express attraction to women in case I upset them,

My date went really well this time, though,

However, I have struggled to sleep regularly since then, staying awake all through the night,

I am very sensitive, I read people's paranoias, their hate, their fears, and I sometimes, because of that, I express myself in a way that appears to side with the enemy,

I am a libra, a free man in Spanish, or the scales of justice in mythology, a balancing act or harmoniser of souls, and I fear that makes me conservative, but in reality, I respect everyone's right to be just who they are,

When the cultural revolution hit, and people started believing in magic, I was ready, but I wasn't ready for the redistribution of land, and spent a sleepless night worrying that I was going to get killed by the workers and "Blacks",

They say the middle classes will be wiped out by globalisation, I have seen enough of the informers to know that the middle classes are scared, but that's just it, isn't it?

So these are my recent traumas, I can't really go into my sexual traumas without being more open about who I am, which is not always wise with strangers,

Hope I haven't offended anyone or sowed seeds of doubt,

Cheers

Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 27, 2018, 05:24:00 AM
My trauma for today, my brother died.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on December 27, 2018, 07:49:40 AM
My trauma for today, my brother died.
Oh no, Georgos! I'm so sorry for your loss. How are you coping with it? Was it a shock passing, or had he been ill? I hope you will be ok.

Best regards,
M.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 27, 2018, 01:49:15 PM
My brother's alright, was paranoid.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 28, 2018, 12:54:47 PM
So smoking cessation is my challenge for this coming year, beginning with not smoking first thing in the morning, then not until I get to the top of the hill.

Seeing is believing, and I don't want to see myself.

Getting a good nights rest is also important to me as I enjoy traveling in less structured worlds.

Reflection is important, I just need to reflect words and desire.

Study remains a passion of mine, though I am learning to work physically as well as proactively.

My life goal is to remain in service to my ego loving myself and others slowly, surely and progressively.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on January 08, 2019, 04:39:32 AM
So I'm going to post a little crazy post today, though hopefully it will make sense to some people.

I know this forum is primarily about quitting PMO and other artificial stimulants, and I believe tobacco comes under the domain of the latter. Arguably, neither MO nor tobacco is artificial, though tobacco is often mixed with chemicals which are man made, and MO is an activity of man as well.

My Sufi Sheikh said that smoking tobacco was a great crime.

He suffered from COPD, I don't know what he was trying to master, but obviously it was killing him.

COPD is different from ASTHMA but both are hard to cure.

He used to try honey and tea, which soothed him some what.

ASTHMA is a rude word, ASS - donkey or bottom, MA - mother.

Perhaps this is why it is so hard to cure.

My father used to smoke, and I convinced him to quit, before taking it up myself in desperation to quit PMO.

I felt that I might be able to swap one addiction for another, never a wise idea.

Smoking tobacco disguises and mixes one's smell, which can act as comoflage when dating, which is a useful strategy when getting to know someone, but also somewhat dishonest.

Some women like the game, others find it repulsive, but it can be a good way to make friends.

I have used smoking tobacco as a weapon, and sometimes as a healing plant, burning off energy so that I can take on the symptoms of others.

The only symptom that I have ever suffered from is a throaty cough, which my father took on too, and this is my main motivation for recovery.

I have very little against tobacco, I enjoy it to some extent, and would much rather master it than be dependent on it.

I fear quitting completely.

I am currently counting the days I don't smoke whilst walking, or before I've had my morning coffee.

I want to extend this to not smoking before 12:00pm each day, but that is a bit of a way off at the moment.

Paying in tobacco is also possible, but I wouldn't advise it.

Anyway, today is day one on my two counts of not smoking in the above stated controlled manner.

Fear does not stop me.

It has to be a rational decision, managing the outcomes and progressing in small steps.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 11, 2019, 02:21:23 PM
So I guess I'm experiencing what people call a flatline. I've been dating a woman for the past two or three months and we've yet to even kiss, I just can't seem to move in tune with her nor feel turned on when she does. In fact I don't really feel any sexual energy at all, but I like her. I've stopped counting how many days without PMO, over 200 now and I'm over my record for no P. I'm not even interested in the subject anymore, however I've decided to return to the forum as I'm still wondering about the issue of sexual pleasure. I think different women have different expectations, some are more interested in developing a family and some are interested in a release of tension besides. My own interests are in both and that makes it difficult. I'm not really worried about the lack of sexual energy I'm feeling with the woman I'm dating, I certainly haven't lost interest, however I'm aware that this lack makes things a bit more awkward between us than it could be. I'm sure things will work themselves out in time, just thought I'd journal here to try and straighten myself more on the journey. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 18, 2019, 01:08:21 PM
So I've been thinking about this idea of NPD, narcissistic personality disorder, that I wonder if it applies to me.
I have no idea why I would think that?
It is painful to the mind and the soul.
I have no idea whether it is a problem or my approach to dealing with problems that is the problem of problems or problems.
Balance, freedom, I am a Libra, is that the reason I am that I am;
I think it is time for people to grow up and realise that the more they judge, the more like a doctor they become, the more they are hurting others, even if that is not their intention, to quote something I observed, yang within yin within yang within yin, but I do not even know what these two words mean.
Chanzenfushali
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 18, 2019, 04:48:49 PM
So I had a lovely telephone conversation with my girlfriend yesterday. For once we were on the same wavelength mostly and I felt comforted which is really all I need when I'm flatlining after a busy day. I felt a bit of arousal in the day actually, without any mental energy or desire, so I'm happy to report that I do still have some sensitivity to sexual stimulation. I still need to disassociate MO from oppression, I cannot even do it for my own well being let alone spiritually as in Ancient Egypt. The joke I heard was that when your older a woman will do it for you, but none of the women these days know how to do it properly. That is not my experience. Anyway, I am no Rasputin, I want a family, whether with my current girlfriend or not, I don't know, though we have discussed it. I don't feel I have the resources to start a family at this stage, though my parents have said they would support me, and I also don't feel my current girlfriend would pull her weight in the manner I would like. That being said, I do love her, and I want to make her happy. Sex is still a problem, I feel unable to make a move without doubting myself at the same time, and that means that I am essentially being fake and avoiding making love. The most I can do is give her a hug and a kiss on the cheek. I suggested we watched a film together, The Boy on a Dolphin, which she hasn't seen, and I thought might make for a romantic evening, but even this idea is seeming too planned to me now as discussing it with her made me start to think otherwise again. Self-doubt is essentially a really big problem for me, I struggle to be self-assured without being negative. We talked a little about the meaning of never speaking a woman's woodoo which I had not really understood when my Muslim friend first asked me about it. I thought it meant never speak her mind, but it really means don't speak her objections. This is probably the root of my lack of self-assuredness, whether I can switch to romance, love and joy as well as humour remains to be seen. I bought a book on the psychology of laughter by someone with a fake sounding Greco-Russian name, it is probably the last thing I should be reading. Anyway, we're still talking and staying friends, I'm sure something will develop. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 19, 2019, 06:35:36 AM
I used to think I knew all about stopping porn, having counted days since I was seven, but never thought that it would actually come to an end.

My uncle seemed to me to be the expert, having even experienced squeezing through rocks, but recently I realized he was no better than me.

"Sheep don't need midwifes" is a saying that I learned from a wise man.

But theory is useless without practice. To deliver a baby without force is one of the greatest achievments a woman can do.

My uncle never had a child of his own, what can he teach me except for games of the heart?

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 20, 2019, 08:23:46 AM
So I was trying to find my diary entry where I made the suggestion about Harry's future bride but it's been deleted, I wonder who could have done that, you?
I don't really care, I'm entitled to earn £120 per week on top of benefits, the question is how many hours can I manage.
My essential problem is two fold, I need a lot of care and attention, somebody to look after my needs, who I may have found, but I need to be able to provide for them enough for it to be an equal partnership as well.
How I go about doing that I don't know.
At present I have a nurse who looks after me and I pay for it through my parents taxes.
What goes around comes around and all of my money goes on tobacco so that covers most of the costs.
I'm really not sure what you're after.
My book is half-way complete, and I'm still debating whether to keep the money or give it away to charity.
A coin has two sides, but a fruit cake has plenty of raisins.
As you know Cyprus is where the "Egyptians" set up camp over a thousand years ago while they were waiting for the "Greeks" to leave, indeed the first mummified cat is to be found on the island.
So am I "Egyptian" or "Irish", a pharaoh or a king, I am a humble servant,
Yours indeed and word etc. etc.
George
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 22, 2019, 05:45:51 AM
So the basis of power is to give to those above and take from those below.

The basis of making money is to give to those below and take from those above.

What is education?
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 22, 2019, 09:26:20 AM
So coming here has resolved my longstanding P addiction and for that I am grateful, I've often said here that reboot needs to be holistic, that is true, however here is not really the place to focus on holism. This is because the focus of addiction rebooting needs to be very narrow with regards to peer to peer energy. Introducing other issues in such a context only diversifies the energy meaning that it is far harder to make that final choice. I'm going to return to keeping a "private" journal for my ambitions now, hopefully I can gather enough energy to manifest them into reality. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on February 23, 2019, 12:42:51 AM
 I don't mind reading your diversified posts, although I think they are sometimes a bit over dramatic! But I accept that with your condition, feelings and interpretations can be very powerful. Best of luck with everything, Georgos, if you aren't coming back.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 23, 2019, 05:54:57 AM
Thanks Malando,

I think the trouble is that whenever I've mentioned other things that I want to achieve like managing cigarettes and mathematics, it hasn't helped me as that's not people's experience on here.

I actually want to transition to being a health practitioner.

I've been doing some casual work as a research assistant in health economics for the past three months but my prescribed tenure has come to an end.

I have never been focussed on money in the past, but I'm finding out that my girlfriend is quite demanding.

I've come to realise that making money is an integral part of the process of raising a family, and I don't really know where to begin.

Philosophy and maths has served me well, and continues to serve me in the development of new ideas, I'd really like to apply it to health now and see what kind of results I can get.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 23, 2019, 07:37:32 AM
So here is an entry from my diary so that you can see what kind of diverse thinker I am:

"So George was thinking about the cross...pitting North against South, East against West is what Gaddafi tried to do...it is divide and rule...fusion is North joined to South and East joined to West which leads to a new binary combination which must then be squared again...and so on until the circle is squared...squaring the circle is the process of the golden mean...(1 + root(5))/2 or the pentagram?...George doesn't really understand what this has to do with ruler and compass?...Ramanujan spent many hours getting better and better combinations...and he died young...does that matter?...is our life preordained?...should we try to calculate it?...can one avoid death?...life is eternal but one forgets the past in the moment...how does one connect the silvery coil?...and network?...is materialisation the same as plugging in?...does one need a body?...what about the internal mechanics?...and how can one survive without documents?...what about property and wealth?...medicine?..."

And here is a book that I was thinking of studying: Acupucture The Ancient Chinese Art of Healing and How it Works Scientifically by Felix Mann, MB. 1971

I want to read more books, meditate every morning, and practice giving out energy, at present most of my energy goes into tweets or emails, read posts, and coffee, I am not discontent, but have little time for my girlfriend. Can anyone give me some feedback on my consultancy business that gives me some more helpful credentials than the title of schizo-affective patient? Bismillah ir-rahman ir-rahim. Amen.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 24, 2019, 10:17:14 AM
So I'm thinking about where my ambitions lie. Someone told me that you should stop thinking about what I can do for everyone else and start thinking about what you can do for you. I always wanted to be a teacher, but one of the greatest teachers in the world admitted to me today that the mistake he made was thinking he could teach.

I don't understand democracy, it's just like football teams to some extent, but there is strength in numbers. Rising above party politics is only possible if you are either too low to be noticed or too high to be at risk. So once again I am wondering whether I should join the Labour Party as a precaution.

In the past I always simply supported the Labour Party out of blind ideology, thinking that they were the party that looked after people rather than the party that exploited people. But I am growing up now and realise that patronage is a form of control as much as anything else.

I suppose this is where democracy comes in.

I am not really interested in politics, but in harmony and leading a balanced life, I still want to help people. I don't know if that is an attachment I should shed. Give a little, take a little, give a little one more time is the words of the famous song so much trouble in the world. I suppose it's all give and take, yin and yang, or whatever, business I suppose. We can help one another, of that I'm sure, but perhaps a better way of putting it is that we can share experiences and work through them together. I still intend to vote Labour, I don't think all politicians are the same, they are all individuals like the rest of us, I have come to realise that everyone has a heart, but my team is Labour and for the most part it always has been save when I voted Respect to protest the Iraq War.

Anyway, voting intentions are usually only admitted to a select few, so perhaps it is a mistake for me to admit them here. I don't really want political lessons, I want to find a way to be able to support my family and get better, that is my priority, thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 24, 2019, 11:01:03 AM
So I've been thinking about what Kittyhawk said and am wondering about my use of the internet in general now. Is it purely to keep me accountable, or can it provide a means for me to better my circumstances?
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 24, 2019, 12:06:27 PM
So I am updating a lot today, still trying to decide whether to keep my diary "private" or "accountable". Here is today's entry:

"George was rushing into trying to improve his income with no clear vision of what he wanted to do...he basically wanted to get payed more for doing exactly the same as what he was doing now...how could that happen...did anyone get paid to do what he was doing...not likely...they had tasks...no independence...if they were "spooks" or else they were politicians and had to face the media and voters...George had to face the paranoid relapses of perception that he had been routinely going through and the medical professionals...he wanted to get away from that...but he would still have to be accountable to someone...or somebody...and something would still be demanded of him...what was demanded of him at present was sorting out the confusion in his head...ensuring that his world did not crumble into paranoid anarchy as it had done so so many times before...his friends and parents kept telling him that it was wall in his imagination...but George was not so sure...balancing everything was a hard task and George really thought he should be getting paid more...that was his vision...but it was not a vision shared by others who all viewed him with suspicion...so what could George do?...what changes would he have to make to his life and the lives of others?...George was lost..."
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 24, 2019, 12:46:43 PM
So I have to form a clear vision of what I want to achieve.

I am interested in health which doesn't necessarily mean stability,

There is a difference between T'ai Ji and Yoga just as there is a difference between Ayurveda and TCM, the common thread I suppose is Buddhism as a science as opposed to a religion, though there can be links there as well I suppose.

Why am I interested in these forms of training and practice?

Is it my vision to master them or to improve my lot?

Is it because they seem easier than Western Medicine or more sophisticated?

Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 24, 2019, 01:29:31 PM
So to do a course to gain practical hands on experience in medicine I will need more money.

Otherwise all I can do is acquire more book knowledge and do personal exercises which is pretty selfish.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 25, 2019, 07:37:17 AM
So I have today a lump sum from my work in health economics.

I promised my girlfriend we could go away for a night in the country some time ago, and now I can afford to do it.

The problem is that I have zero sexual interest after quitting PMO. I am almost forty and thinking that if I am going to start a family now is the time, but I'm not convinced that I want to start a family with my girlfriend.

Pleasure doesn't come into the equation, and I'm not sure that is healthy. Pleasure is after all one of the main mechanisms of the reward centre along with fear.

As I said, I'm not sure that being a slave to the reward centre is healthy or not. It is a mechanism of the body, of the cells, which live within us. Obeying it is essentially like the shephard obeying the sheep, at least to my mind, I think.

On the other hand, there is a shared responsibility between the cells and the being for reproduction, so the two should go hand in hand. If I don't feel sexual interest, or a need for sexual pleasure, how can I be guided to reproduce?

Perhaps I am making it more complicated than it should be. Can one ever be certain that one's girlfriend is the one. I think at the moment, the primary sensation I have is mild fear about how I could be able to raise a family in my circumstances.

More study doesn't seem the right approach, neither does mental masturbation which I try to avoid but am prone to in the presence of women.

I know only I can make the changes I need to, but I lack a sense of what to do.

I don't want to stay an invalid for ever.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on February 25, 2019, 06:25:43 PM
Georgos, I can't answer whether your girlfriend is the one for you to have children with, but I can tell you that my partner and I didn't get our act together as a couple until we had our daughter. Before we had her, we were thrashing about trying to get our needs met and feeling hard done by a lot of the time. Of course, we did very much like sex, so that allowed the child come about. We made a decision to let nature decide for us whether we would become parents. I was already 41 when she fell pregnant. We allowed nature to choose us to be parents, which led to a raft of changes in our relationship - starting with commitment to our child, then commitment to each other, then letting go of pointless arguments over nothing, pulling together our resources, realising that we really do love each other rather than just saying it. It was very much a team effort which signalled the end of the single, individualist, hedonistic lifestyle. In essence having a family saved us from that hedonism and made us live to higher principles and for a great purpose.

You will have to find your own path, but I would say that it is always a mistake to try to create your future in your mind before you realise it. When you do that, you interfere with the growth processes that happen when you take leaps of faith and commit to making the best of any situation. This is a skill that must be developed. Being over-controlling will sabotage your life and your relationships and may well have you asking the same questions about life when you are almost 60 - only with a retrospective sadness that you never took the leaps of faith that might have changed your destiny.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 26, 2019, 06:11:17 AM
So we are here for a shared journey and that is what make journaling here so effective.

I have been told that broadening my focus is permissible.

So here is a question.

Can counting days be applied to any other activity, either to increase or reduce it, in a shared journey on this forum?

I would very much like to start counting the days I read a book chapter each day and would be grateful of the support of others who wish to join me in doing this.

I believe such activity would help to make any reboot more grounded.

So if noone objects does anyone want to take up my challenge?

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 26, 2019, 07:34:14 AM
So there are nine and a half hours before I go to bed. I intend to read a chapter of a book today. Wish me luck. Cheers.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 26, 2019, 09:54:35 AM
So it's coming up to three o-clock, the time I set myself for reading. I'm going to do it now. So today is day one for reading. I'm almost up to six months without P so far so things are going well. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 27, 2019, 05:38:51 AM
So I've been getting very little sleep this last week, but last night I got a good twelve hours which I hope has made up for this. Not sleeping is usually a sign I'm having or about to have a psychotic relapse, but apart from a sort of frenzied use of the internet I haven't really had that. Perhaps that's not entirely true, I have had some perceptions that were perhaps delusional, like thinking there were beings from other more advanced realities amongst us trying to take over. I'd like to stress that that is not a metaphor for different "races" or "ethnicities" as the words are conventionally used, but an actual reference to beings from the "stars". I very rarely talk about my delusions, being self aware firstly that they are just my perceptions and thus could be wrong, indeed probably are, and secondly that they are not mainstream views, though the more time I spend on the internet the more I think that they are more mainstream than I was brought up to believe, which still doesn't make them correct. Anyway I thought I'd document that perception here, I am still only telling fragments of my story. Don't know what today will bring, after a good nights sleep, perceptions generally return to more neutral observations of my environment.

Yesterday I made a start with reading a book chapter a day. I found that I couldn't really concentrate on the words all the time, having to reread passages and the like, however hopefully my concentration will be better today. I think reading can help with brainfog, and lack of concentration, which are both symptoms of PMO abuse. If you think about the process of constantly searching for something new, reading is the opposite. Anyway, I apologize for trying to foist one of my aims on to other people yesterday, if nobody wants to join me on this journey of book reading discipline then that is fine. I'd like to try and build up to more study and reading, but slowly slowly. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 27, 2019, 01:58:49 PM
So today is day two of my reading challenge. I am reading a book called "Clinical Evidence Made Easy". I still haven't started the second chapter. It is 18:58 so I only have two and a half hours left. I will do it. I have to do it. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 27, 2019, 03:53:36 PM
So I've been meditating on the story of Snow White. I've only just realised why an ex-Platonic girlfriend of mine wanted me to watch the updated Disney version Enchanted. At the time she told me it was because she thought the lead actress Amy Adams was good. We had just been to see Arrival which she also stars in and so that was the context. But when I watched it all I could take from it was the song "How does she know that you love her" and I felt so insecure.

The other day I started thinking about the original story. How the Queen sees herself in the mirror as less beautiful than Snow White.

I can't remember the story, but I have always thought that the Queen married the huntsman as a reward for killing Snow White, though I'm sure that's not how it really goes.

Anyway, the colour is not totally irrelevant in this world, but the story probably needs to be more shuffled into the complexes of the modern multi-cultural world that we live in with multiple tangled webs of relationships in beauty.

I get the point, women compete.

Most of the time where I live it's not life or death.

But games do play a role in survival, flirting is an important ritual in winning and keeping a girls heart.

I know Malando says that once your married these things fade into the background, but I've observed my parents with their married friends engaging in flirting and banter, and some of my parents married friends are still very passionate with each other even after forty odd years of marriage.

So what is the lesson? Do I really have to hate the competition to help the woman feel confident? Is there a compasionate way you can put the competition down?

How does one make life humorous between oneself and one's partner? Is that the secret, keep it between friends?

I'd like some answers to these questions.

I think I'm doing better now anyway, naturally and without stress, so perhaps all this is irrelevant at the moment, but I'd like to inject some passion as well as compassion.

I've read my chapter of my book today, now I want to feel the surge of life a little bit.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on February 27, 2019, 06:18:41 PM

But games do play a role in survival, flirting is an important ritual in winning and keeping a girls heart.

I know Malando says that once your married these things fade into the background, but I've observed my parents with their married friends engaging in flirting and banter, and some of my parents married friends are still very passionate with each other even after forty odd years of marriage.
I'm not sure I did say that, Georgos. Can you quote the comment where I said that? I feel there must be a misunderstanding there.

Quote
How does one make life humorous between oneself and one's partner? Is that the secret, keep it between friends?

Humour in a relationship comes down to a couple of things:
How relaxed you both are in the relationship: you have to be feeling like there is room to be silly and playful, and that you are not being judged on everything you say and do. Humour falls flat sometimes. It needs to be unpressured and there needs to be space to miss the mark sometimes. You can't be worried about the future of the relationship all the time if you want there to be humour around.

Are you actually funny to the other person? Humour is not universal, and it is unique. You need a partner that finds your humour naturally funny, like there isn't too much effort or planning involved. Otherwise it's a burden to keep trying to find new material to make somebody laugh. Too much planning is bad. It must be spontaneous and low effort.

Sex: dare I say it. There should be the prospect of sex. Without the prospect, the game-playing has no endgame. This is assuming at least one partner is desiring it. If both partners don't, I suppose you could have a humorous partnership, but that's a different sort of relationship.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 28, 2019, 06:53:09 AM
Thanks Malando, I'm pretty sure my lady friend does desire sex with me, it's just that I never seem to feel aroused. I love her mind and I feel an emotional bond towards her, and I don't think she's unattractive, but for some reason I never feel any sexual energy with her. I don't know if that is part of the flat line syndrome of reboot or what.

I'm not desperate for humour, just trying to avoid getting too serious all the time, but you're right, these things should come naturally.

With regards to flirting fading into the background I probably misinterpreted you when you said "In essence having a family saved us from that hedonism and made us live to higher principles and for a great purpose. " Flirting and competition with other couples is not hedonism, I realise that now, it's part of the game of life, I guess I was brought up to think competition with other people was bad or indulgence, but it needn't be so, maybe. I'm still not sure, perhaps I'm still trying to hard to be a saint (and failing miserably).

Anyway thanks again Malando, your words are always inspiring as well as comforting. Thank you.

Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 01, 2019, 05:03:54 AM
So I've been a bit obsessed with internet forums recently, this is the only one that really helps me, but some of the others help a little. More than that, some of the forums provide excitement, stimulating the amygdala (fear and pleasure centre) in the brain. I think internet addiction is a real thing, but I don't think it's worse than PMO for me at the present time, and I'm quite certain I can go without the internet if I want to quite easily.

The biggest problem I have is using it to fuel my fantasies about being someone. It starts by me trying to guess who the various anonymous people are, thinking they're secret agents or famous politicians or even people I know or have at least heard of. Then I start thinking that I can connect with them in a way that will take me out of my current situation of being institutionalized and into a successful life similar to theirs. This is all pure fantasy land and born out of desperation.

I know I'm very intelligent. I started a PhD some years ago, and I am able to analyse reality and form at many levels. I'm also able to describe it and write simple programs. But I remain as one friend put it "a ward of the state".

Getting out of this situation will require something more than fantasy. There is a difference between fantasy and manifestation, a distinction in practice which is difficult for me to make. I think when I was drawing semi-pornographic pictures as a teenager to MO to, I was trying to manifest myself a sex life, but instead it was all just pure fantasy.

I'd like to explore the difference between fantasizing and manifesting more in later posts. For now I think I just need to recognise that I have been fantasizing a lot and not really getting anywhere, as well as probably upsetting or annoying other people in the process., for which I'm sorry.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Pete McVries on March 01, 2019, 06:38:08 AM
Hey Georgos,

I can very much relate to getting lost in fantasy land (not necessarily related to sexual stuff). Have you ever thought about reframing the whole situation and use the fantasy to your advantage? What I mean by that, is setting your self little but challenging and achievable goals and then start visualizing how to get there? Many successful people do that for example athletes. They envision themselves in realistic scenarios that could take place in their upcoming games/matches/fights and try to prepare themselves mentally for that. It is a very underrated technique and it takes some training to master it but once you're good at it, it becomes really helpful.

Wishing you all the best! I hope you can come back and maybe finish your PhD if it is what you want to do. I know for sure, that my "mental illness" has ruined my academic career but hold on, that's not true. It put things on hold for a second (or years rather). But it's not out of sight at all. So yeah, write your own comeback story and get back what's yours!
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 01, 2019, 07:19:40 AM
Thanks for the advice Pete,

One of the things I struggle with is challenging behaviour. My justification for it was born out of my understanding of proof by contradiction, dialectics and gong fu.

Proof by contradiction is not constructive, neither is dialectics, it results in a change of paradigm or new beginning, the same with gong fu, or at least Shaolin.

I have never liked to beg, I've always thought that I was good at asking questions, but most of my question have always been with the aim of educating the other person rather than gaining something for myself. Basically I think I know it all already, or rather God (for want of a better word) does, and the answers will come to you when needed.

I have been thinking about the line "Ask and ye shall receive" which I am told comes from the Bible. Is there a difference between this and begging? My Sufi Sheikh (to the extent that I am Muslim, I usually prefer to think of myself as Mumin which is another form of acceptable being in the Koran) also begged people to "Ask". This is essentially what I want, people to ask things of me. Yet the only people who ask me are my parents and beggers on the street. Nobody has ever asked me to do anything interesting since I was at school, or perhaps university. Perhaps that is because I was unreliable, again perhaps because of my inclination towards proof by contradiction, or perhaps it was because nobody could see my value.

How does one ask for things in a manner that does not lead to a life of begging. People often say ask Jesus or God. What they are really saying is ask one's higher self.

If I believe I am higher than the person I am asking, then they will never give me anything, because once again that is challenging behaviour. Arrogance is not always bad, as my maths tutor at university said, to be a mathematician you have to have a little arrogance, you have to believe that you can answer a question that nobody has answered before. But perhaps a better word is self-belief. I have struggled to combine humility with self-belief, to ask in a way that is non-threatening whilst providing reassurance of capability to the person I am asking.

Proof by contradiction is generally considered the ugliest way of proving things, but to establish a new beginning, prove a return to zero, it is always necessary.

The direct path involves no proof. One simply jumps or chooses. This is why I have been saying that counting days (proof by contradiction) is inferior to simply making the choice (the direct path). However the two are not mutually exclusive. In the language of dialectics the choice is called the negation of the negation, the transcendence of the contradiction, establishing the new beginning.

As a final note, having encountered a negative response, how does one proceed. In some sense everything is a choice, so the person who has been negative has made a choice to be negative. One cannot make choices for people, one can only apply the carrot and the stick or take the path of passive observation. Observation is not without effect, as absolute observation is the domain of the almighty, something that is beyond who we are in our current form. Observing the negation of our desires by other people is unlikely to make them change their minds, however, because the effects of observing are only noticable at the quantum level.

Humility when asking a question is the recognition that the choice to answer is the other person's alone. Self-belief is the belief that one is able to offer something, some combination of the carrot and stick, to the other person to help them make their choice, it is also the belief that one has asked the right question to the right person, i.e. made the correct choice oneself.

I still don't know what I want from life, I am much happier now that I have chosen a different path to that of PMO, I still have too many complaints, but that will pass.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Pete McVries on March 01, 2019, 09:11:23 AM
I still don't know what I want from life, I am much happier now that I have chosen a different path to that of PMO, I still have too many complaints, but that will pass.

I'm in the same boat and many people are for that matter. A lot of people don't know what they want from life. But a lot of people know what they DON'T want from life. And that can be really helpful and a first essential step. You recognized that you don't want PMO in your life anymore and you try to act accordingly even though it's a nasty addiction. That in itself is great! Continue to dissect the things that you don't want and try to get away from them, piece by piece. Like assembling a puzzle but the opposite way, if you will...

You share a lot of insights and to be honest, I don't understand it all but it is surely helpful to get another perspective on life. I'll be definitely following your journal and your progress. All the best!

p.s. I hope, I didn't cause you any bad feelings by my thread title, that was never my intention. It's just my grotesque humour that helps me to deal with my problems. To be honest, it gets me through the day and laughing about all the bad things that have happened in my life without making them seem ridiculous make things a lot easier for me. It's just another variety of being an individual :)
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 02, 2019, 06:42:03 AM
So I'm being invited to participate on a forum I was banned from, having my ban revoked.

Being prone to psychotic outbursts is something that I'm still trying to get a handle on.

One of the t'ai ji styles I practice is famous for it's sudden outbursts of jing energy.

But t'ai ji is for self-defence only.

The problem is when you suffer from paranoia, you think you have to practice self-defence all the time.

Confronting paranoid people is not easy, you either have to bluntly make it clear that they are perceiving things the wrong way or try and sooth them into feeling at ease.

If they lash out and you respond in kind, then that just sets up a cycle of bad blood.

Forgiveness is one of the hardest things to do in that case, and being brave enough to welcome them back into your life with the knowledge that you will be able to manage their paranoia better next time is even harder.

We all get paranoid from time to time, extremes are the hardest thing to manage.

The best thing to do is remember that it is always a choice.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on March 03, 2019, 04:01:24 AM
Being very intelligent is a double-edged sword. Whilst intelligence can open many doors, I've know a lot of people who ended up pretty miserable in their lives, despite being highly intelligent. Being very intelligent lends itself to critical analysis - and many aspects of the modern world can be viewed with great cynicism. There are so many instances of corruption, lack of integrity, conspiracy, immorality. etc, the more intelligent you are, the more likely you are to notice how pervasive the world's problems are. This can lead to a depressive and chaotic state of mind. People with high intelligence find it harder to kid themselves that things are ok, or that they will be ok. So reality bites hard. Having said that, some highly intelligent people are prone to exaggeration and making connections where there is no evidence for it. This only compounds the problem. Highly intelligent minds sometimes like to make to world interesting where it is mundane - hence the intelligent, yet batshit crazy tinfoil hat-wearing types who see conspiracy everywhere they look.

So overall I would say that being highly intelligent has little to do with being happy. The more intelligent one is, the more one must manage oneself responsibly. Discipline is key. Living well in terms of diet and exercise, having a balance of work, recreation and social life, being constructive and positive in the way one deals with problems and situations - it's all critical to the highly intelligent person. I mean, it's important to everyone, but I've seen a lot of highly intelligent people fall by the wayside by having their intelligence turn against them and create a lot of suffering for themselves and those around them. They tend to mess up relationships because they are so clever in an argument and the other person feels inferior. Humility is very important. There's always somebody smarter than you.

Not necessarily directed at you, Georgos, just commenting on the subject of high intelligence.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 04, 2019, 12:09:17 PM
So I never wanted to give myself a label, but I have variously oscillated between philosopher and mathematician. I have discovered a word for myself which I think sounds quite ugly, "Philomath", which means lover of knowledge. What is the point in knowledge if you can't put it into practice? What is the point if you can't apply it? Both philosophers and mathematicians apply knowledge to language, the former following the path of wisdom, the latter following the path of calculation. I do both at different times for various purposes, but all I seem to do is apply knowledge to the word. I am content with this, but wondering whether there isn't perhaps something more. Physical and metaphysical practice for instance, engineering, medicine, travel and transportation to name but a few things that I could be doing. Carpentry, masonry, plumbing to name some more. I've thought about studying to be an electrician, there are some free courses available, but I missed the start date for this year, and I am also concerned I wouldn't be able to see it through. I really don't know what I can be applying myself to beyond words. From a metaphysical perspective, I'd like to start meditating again. But I am wondering how much effort I will have to put in before I can apply meditation to something practical other than rest. I have less than ten days to go to reaching the six month mark without P. I have been urging myself in my diary to do this for the past five years at least. It feels good to be finally succeeding. Today is day seven of my reading challenge. I want to start reading two chapters per day soon. I'm feeling good about myself in general, but not really interested in sexual pleasure even with a partner at the moment, and still wondering about how best to apply myself to life. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 05, 2019, 12:02:40 PM
So I completed my casual work in health economics and was very happy for the extra cash it provided me with. Unfortunately I wasn't able to get any results for the research project we were undertaking and was unable to do more than a month and a half of the requested hours owing to ill health. Nevertheless I would like to try and work with my boss again on some other project and hopefully perform better this time. I am not sure whether there is anything I can do to promote this opportunity for myself. I have thought about suggesting some areas of mutual interest to look into, including the relationship between pornography, depression and cancer, the latter two being areas that my boss is interested in. Another option for earning a bit more cash is to try and make some money from writing on my own, but that involves being consistent, something I find hard to do, and inconsistencies can give one an unreliable reputation. Anyway, I'm sure things will fall into place in due course. I am on day eight of my reading challenge, six months P free is not far away. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 07, 2019, 08:33:41 AM
So I returned to the politics of the economy again yesterday contacting my favourite MP and an economic think tank, and it was probably a mistake, not only am I unable to write in a manner that is tactful, or displays real understanding without obfuscating, but it is not really my responsibility, so engaging with it at that level only distracts me from my priorities of self-development and survival. I only managed seven days of my book reading challenge before I gave up, having missed two days so far. The books I am reading will help me with any future work I get in formal health economics and in informal understanding of academia, but I still don't know if there will be any future opportunities for me in these areas as of yet, I can but be patient and wait. Someone suggested that I had low testosterone, which might be as a result of the meds I'm on, and this might be why I'm not feeling any sexual energy with my girlfriend. I've been avoiding blood tests for a few months, on the grounds that sometimes it's better not to know, but maybe I should get it checked out, the problem is if it does turn out the meds are the cause, then I'll have to negotiate and experiment with changing them, which is something I don't want to do. Last time I experimented with changing my meds, I had one of the worst psychotic relapses I had had in a long time, and there aren't many options left. I need to start applying myself to serious self-development, and not just dilettante playing with ideas, although I still love learning and exploring the worlds of knowledge. I'm going to start doing a visualisation meditation every morning for ten minutes from now on, immediately after checking my emails. Hopefully that will help me to progress to a greater state of being. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 08, 2019, 06:33:10 AM
So thinking about what other people have said I am wondering if I've always been a drifter in life. My father once described me as a butterfly which I think is more appropriate. Butterfly's go from one flower to the next collecting pollen, drifters don't really collect anything but just float around on the waves. I'm really trying to focus on what is best for me to do to achieve a better family life. It is really hard to know, at least for me, what to prioritize, and that is what is stopping me from putting the necessary work into achieving something. "Just do it!" is a good slogan, but after doing many different things and not really getting anywhere, I think I need to learn to focus more on making useful decisions of how to spend my time. Someone else said that I should just think about what I "don't" want in life, and the rest will take care of itself. I don't really want anything, and those things that I do want I can get easily enough. However supporting someone or somebody else requires give and take and that means knowing what you want from life as well so you can share it. I still haven't done my visualisation meditation today. I think I'll have to try and do it, and read a chapter of my book too. Wish me luck and keep on the correct path everyone. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 08, 2019, 03:42:08 PM
So I have failed again to do anything worthwhile today and instead gone back to thrashing around like a beached whale. I have to get my priorities straight and make realistic targets for me to aim at and stick to. The distractive nature of the internet is too time consuming and like a psychotropic drug that stops one from apply oneself to more prosaic and practical things. I think I will have to start limiting my internet use as well for a time, only coming on here when is absolutely necessary. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 09, 2019, 06:41:10 AM
So having chosen the path away from P there are several things that I need to organise in my mind in the rewiring process. One of them is internet usage. In a way, thrashing around on the internet is an extension of my P habit. I believe clicking on things, waiting for responses from social media, and putting things out there to get a response, are all similar in nature with regards to the reward centre wired for instant gratification. I know in some countries, psychiatrists actually diagnose such a thing as internet addiction, I'm not really bothered about classifications, Russell Brand, who I quite like, even if I do think he's highly pretentious, though he does have the experience of being a heroin addict, has written a sort of manifesto, which I haven't read yet, about treating everything we do as an addiction and gradually shedding these things to come to our true self, at least I think that's his basic idea. It quite appeals to me. For me the biggest problem is lack of concentration or focus, jumping from one instant chemical gratification to another. I'd much rather be reading books than browsing the internet, or spending quality time in conversation with my girlfriend, family and friends. These things are not forms of chemical instant gratification, they are drawn out and infinitely more satisfying in terms of joy as opposed to pleasure. I am not against the internet absolutely, I think it has a place, it is a great tool for information, and allows one to connect with people one wouldn't normally be able to connect with, but pathological use is a problem. Besides the quick fix of putting something out and then getting a hit from a reply, there is a chaser affect of putting out any old rubbish in the hope of prolonging the gratification. In other words, even if you put something out that is good the first time, it quickly descends into just thrashing about. I don't know whether I should try and avoid expressing myself at all, or make sure that I am always sure about my purpose and intent in expressing something, but I do know that thrashing about expressing any old junk is not good. This site is good because it is focused. I actually like the Quaker Meeting like format of the journals, whereby there is very little discussion and mostly people just express themselves on their own journal leaving others to express themselves in their own time. I don't know if it was consciously set up to have this sort of format, or whether it just naturally takes it on, but I have been guilty of disrupting it a little by posting on other's journals a bit too much, and that is something I need to watch out for. Sending random emails on impulse is something else I need to try and steer clear of. As I said, I think basically I just need to become much more conscious of purpose and intent, and how my actions affect other people, before I write anything to anyone or put something out on the internet. I also need to become more focused and think of the purpose and intent with which I apply to browsing or gathering information. The information that we gather or receive has an effect on us and it is easy to get entangled in it and start to fantasize extrapolations about what it means. I'm writing a lot here, I still need to get back to doing something worthwhile with my time, reading, meditating, to name to preliminary things I could be doing. I didn't do them yesterday and I'm feeling resistance to doing them today as well. I just need to push on through. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 09, 2019, 08:37:27 AM
Despite everything I wrote in my last post, I am still doing it, writing one thing with intent, then writing something else just for kicks, all the while searching, just as I used to do with P, for my next hit. This has to stop. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 10, 2019, 12:47:44 PM
So haven't written anything today, apart from this, which is good, but have spent all day reading irrelevant posts about things that have nothing to do with my self-development, basically reading other people's intentions that are far removed from my experience. I don't know what to do to shift gear into developing myself again. I guess I'm just waiting for it to happen naturally, without forcing it, but that is the mentality of a drifter, and I'm just making excuses here, which isn't really helpful. I need to start writing positive things with intention here and no more excuses for my unproductive internet addiction. The rewiring starts now. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 12, 2019, 04:57:08 AM
I read Eldridge Cleaver when I was fourteen and always wondered why he said white men got off on watching black men fuck their relatives. I believed it happened, I just couldn't understand why they would do it. I had always searched for pictures of big tits until a black man moved in next door. Only then did I think of searching for so called "interracial" porn, I was shocked, however about a year before Obama was elected I drew a comic in which white American girls decided that they were only going to sleep with black men as an act of political defiance against what the Republicans had done, and later I found comics by other people along the same lines just without the mainstream political language. I was hooked.
Blondes lusting after black men became a fetish. I had already disowned my mother. That is as far as it went. The truth is I had always wanted white women to treat me like that, like they did my father at least in my fantasy, but I am mixed "race" to use a racist term, and white women I consider victims of prejudice which is why I never had any success with them beyond friendship. Eldridge Cleaver was a rapist, rape is an act of war that is never justified, but I am still wondering if what I have done makes me white.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on March 12, 2019, 10:01:25 AM
I read Eldridge Cleaver when I was fourteen and always wondered why he said white men got off on watching black men fuck their relatives. I believed it happened, I just couldn't understand why they would do it. I had always searched for pictures of big tits until a black man moved in next door. Only then did I think of searching for so called "interracial" porn, I was shocked, however about a year before Obama was elected I drew a comic in which white American girls decided that they were only going to sleep with black men as an act of political defiance against what the Republicans had done, and later I found comics by other people along the same lines just without the mainstream political language. I was hooked.
Blondes lusting after black men became a fetish. I had already disowned my mother. That is as far as it went. The truth is I had always wanted white women to treat me like that, like they did my father at least in my fantasy, but I am mixed "race" to use a racist term, and white women I consider victims of prejudice which is why I never had any success with them beyond friendship. Eldridge Cleaver was a rapist, rape is an act of war that is never justified, but I am still wondering if what I have done makes me white.
I think it makes you a porn addict, first and foremost. You have wound identity politics into that, but who knows to what degree porn fantasies formed your identity politics, and how your identity politics drove your porn use? In any case, you are mixed: you will never successfully convince yourself that you are black or white. And why should you? My daughter is half white, half Chinese. She will grow up knowing she doesn't need to choose, and that she can't choose.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 12, 2019, 12:05:16 PM
So I have been sleeping all day since writing my last post, which I prepared last night. I had wanted to forget my porn use, having made it to 180 days already abstaining, I am ashamed, but felt the need to confess more about my usage in order to move forward into having healthy sexual relations. My last line was very much in keeping with the book, that this is something white people do, I'm not really going to debate that for now, I'm sure its false, but over time I think most people will find fetishes are always related to identity politics, in some way, though not necessarily "racial", and identity politics can apply to anyone. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 12, 2019, 04:39:42 PM
So I think everyone in the stage of rewiring should investigate the links they have formed between their identity politics and their fetishes. All fetishes come from a false sense of self in relation to others. Meditation can definitely help here, but so can self reflection I think, though maybe not, I've never really been sure about the validity of psycho-analysis. Honest reflection and confession to someone with the power to absolve does help though. I'm still spending far too much time engaging on the internet in ego stroking conversations and not focusing on developing myself to the point of being able to start a family, though being social and stroking one's ego is not necessarily counterproductive in this respect, its just getting the balance right. Spending all my time conversing, and not studying, or practicing at all is not the right balance. As I said, I slept for most of the day today, and that break from the internet was in itself good for me. The next step is to sit at my desk and do something. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 15, 2019, 06:23:24 AM
So I thought I'd join a relationship forum to try and help me develop my relationships in a context that is removed from discussion about PMO. As is so often the case with forums, I started fantasizing about who the other people really were, very quickly it seemed to me to be yet another online conspiracy, this time between MI5 or the like and ladies who wanted to hustle them, I quickly asked for a job, there is a employment relationships subsection, and became obsessed. Now I am asking myself why, what is my attraction to getting one over on authority figures, MI5 are basically higher level police, if they are working to manage interpersonal relationships, so what, I don't particularly want to do that job, I don't think I'd be good at it either, I cannot even manage my own interpersonal relationships very well, let alone help others, plus I don't share their agenda. Actually, having a stable life is something that I'm interested, but I asked them point blank about what difference heritage makes to employment and they said that Britain was a hierarchical system in which heritage *does* matter! I guess that is why the ladies are trying to hustle them. I need to remind myself, I don't want to hustle them, I don't want their job. It annoys me that everywhere I turn online I seem to find a conspiracy. I can't use Facebook because my conspiracy fantasies are so high, and I end up alienating my school friends to whom I am connected. This forum is the only forum that has really helped me so far. I think the conspiracy mentality is born out of years of hiding my PMO use, keeping a dirty little (or rather huge in my mind) secret from everybody, and this is the source of my paranoia as well. I am starting to feel more confident about discussing it more openly. The forum I was on said that hierarchy doesn't matter so much in the States, something which is to my mind a half-truth, market forces still dictate hierarchy, in some way more extreme, but it is true that if you can do the job you can probably succeed, at least that's the dream. Anyway, I have to get my priorities right, thinking about how I can earn a little bit of extra cash has distracted me from my relationship with my girlfriend, we still haven't had sex, but she did say she wanted us to move beyond the dating phase. There's a lot I need to learn about getting the balance of life right in order to be productive, just balancing life to be sane is hard enough. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 16, 2019, 11:24:47 AM
So I've just been reading up, or rather searching online, on information regarding the difference between reading books and the internet. The following from an answer on Quora (https://www.quora.com/Does-reading-on-the-internet-give-the-same-benefits-of-reading-books):

"Research suggests that reading from a book is completely different than reading from a screen. You will memorize more through reading a book, since your brain connects the information to their position within the book and the page. Your hands help in this process, since you hold the book and that helps indicating how far along you are in your reading.

On the other hand, reading online will always bring distractions. Your mind is easily distracted and will look for options to rekindle your attention. In books, this is impossible, so you’ll have to force yourself to read. Online, you can be distracted by pop-ups, ads but also the thought of the option to do something else. It is much easier to open a new tab and look at something else, than to stick with your reading."

Next this from https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-09-18/your-paper-brain-and-your-kindle-brain-arent-same-thing:

"Neuroscience, in fact, has revealed that humans use different parts of the brain when reading from a piece of paper or from a screen. So the more you read on screens, the more your mind shifts towards "non-linear" reading — a practice that involves things like skimming a screen or having your eyes dart around a web page.

“They call it a ‘bi-literate’ brain,” Zoromodi says. “The problem is that many of us have adapted to reading online just too well. And if you don’t use the deep reading part of your brain, you lose the deep reading part of your brain.”"

I feel I have definitely lost the deep reading part of my brain to quite a degree and I want to regain it. The only way I'm going to be able to do that is to practice again, but it really does feel like starting from scratch as far as learning to focus on books goes. I can barely manage fifteen minutes or so reading a book, yet can stare at a screen all day long often without even reading anything.

Yesterday I managed to read for fifteen minutes solid. Today I'm going to try again. So it's day 2 of my reading challenge again. Wish me luck. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: rebootrapp on March 16, 2019, 12:30:23 PM
Good luck man. Let us know how it goes next time!
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Pete McVries on March 16, 2019, 08:09:20 PM
You are providing us with interesting information. I think, I'll dispose of my kindle and start reading real books again. I always suspected, there was a difference. When I look back, I can remember that things I read in a real book stayed with me a lot more detailed than books that I've read on my kindle. Thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 17, 2019, 07:00:42 AM
Thanks Pete, yes the research seems to suggest that deep reading, i.e. reading books, makes information easier to recall, I'm still not sure whether that is better or worse, the non-linear reading of the internet means that one can maybe make new connections between information easier, of course those connections might not be useful or lead you anywhere good, and it probably makes life more difficult to rise out of the mass of chaos, too many directions is not conducive to making progress.

I managed seven days before of reading my book on clinical evidence mad easy, reading the first seven chapters. I will probably have to read these seven chapters again to really study them. I wanted to read the book to prepare myself for any future opportunities I might have in the realm of health economics, having done a bit of casual work as a research assistant in that field recently and also a couple of years ago with the same boss. I really do hope I'll get another chance in that area, although it doesn't look likely at the moment, we'll see.

I'm now reading a book on the Yoga of desires, which is supposed to teach how to master the desires in your life to achieve excellence, if that is the right word. I managed to read two chapters yesterday, spending slightly less time engaging with the internet, which is good. So today is day three of my reading challenge.

I have a bad habit of starting books, reading half of them, and never finishing them, this is something I want to change. In many ways it is a reflection of my life, starting things but never bringing them to conclusion, and is probably another symptom of the new non-linear norm of the internet age, although I have always been like this, since before the internet, so I can't blame everything on that.

I'm almost on 200 days no P and 9 months no PMO. Lost track about three months ago in a very strange occurance. I was having psychotic relapsing over Christmas, perceiving myself in a different reality to my parents and everyone else, and worse than usual, it seemed that other people were expriencing different realities too, in other words there were multiple disconnected realities crashing and diverging with each other. The divergence was quite striking, it seemed like our shared reality was beeing pulled apart, with us all moving in different directions, losing connections, losing our shared recognition of each other, then when I came out the other end, and reality coallessed again, I found something very strange. The counter in my personal diary saved on my computer had been messed around with, with the numbers changed and so on, to this day I have no idea how that happened, but I was never able to concentrate enough to correct it absolutely, however I no that I stopped P on the 6th of September, so I guess this is around 191 days today, give or take the odd day due to the difference in lengths of months. I should really work it out properly, but it feels like too much of an effort, and also I am much more happier not knowing, having spent the majority of my life counting days every day in an almost neurotic manner. For those who have only just started, it is a good discipline, but eventually you need to transcend it. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 18, 2019, 06:53:26 AM
So I've been thinking about how I relate to people politically. My mother says that I'm mostly philosophical and that is true in real life. However online is different. I would never dare to say the things I say online sometimes to people face to face. The anonymity and separation of distance caused by the medium of typed text makes it easier to vent safely. However is venting political or real practice of the art of politics? Venting is different from confession, it is giving voice to frustrations. Powerful leaders such as Fidel Castro would vent the frustrations of the masses giving voice to their collective frustrations and thus holding them in their thrall. However is this politics or oration? In truth I don't really know what politics is, not even the dictionary definition. For most of my life I have seen it as an attachment to ideals and personalities or organisations, the football fan mentality. Sometimes I write journalistic pieces, putting my personal spin on them, and other times I vent my personal frustrations, which is different from venting collective frustrations like leaders do, however as I said, I don't think either of these things are really practicing the art of politics. I'm going to at least look up the dictionary definition after writing these words. With regards to my venting, it comes across as obnoxious, and alienates me from my audience, making it hard for them to engage with me, even if they wanted to, which usually after reading my rants, they don't. As I said, I never do this in real life, only online, I think a lot of people vent online, and I don't think it is strictly speaking the same as trolling. Trolling is malicious, venting is a form of releasing frustrations. I think there is a difference between venting other people's frustrations and venting one's own, and there is also a difference between venting to people who share one's frustrations and venting to people who don't. Reflecting frustrations can be very useful for allowing people to see themselves clearly, throwing one's weight around, on the other hand, only makes you disliked. I need to meditate on or contemplate these ideas more, and get my act together. They say never discuss politics on a date, but that is not the same as being apolitical, indeed I think if you are really political in the true sense of the word, then that is very attractive, in other words, being political is different from discussing or philosophising about politics. I've already alienated a group of people who are very good at politics online, and unfortunately I keep returning to them with more alienating rants, digging myself into a deeper and deeper hole. This is something I've got to overcome. A true failure of myself. I've got to recognise my limitations and direct my energy to the right places. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Pete McVries on March 18, 2019, 10:14:37 AM
I had a very good friend once who I unfriended (in real life) eventually because I couldn't tolerate his bevaviour anymore. First of all, he was a facebook junkie (and to this day still is as far as I know) and he was a different persona online than he was in real life. And that was something I always hated. To make things worse, he thought he was very political and he would entrap several different people in political debates on the daily on facebook for everyone to see. But he didn't do that to healthily discuss things, he always chose a very strong standpoint and then he tried to shove his opinion down other peoples throats. A few times, he tried to do that with me and I always refuted him until he couldn't stand up to me anymore. But it stressed me the fuck out and I always thought to myself, why is this person, who I think is a very good friend of mine, trying to win debates against me online for everyone to see???

I have several other friends and when we discuss politics or other things where we might have different opinions, we always respect each other and try to understand what the other person's viewpoint is. I would agree that being political can be very attractive and I think it is totally wrong to be apolitical just to please the other person. But do it in a healthy way and try to be understanding. Discussing politics/religion/spirituality (for me) is not about winning debates but about broadening one's horizon.

Take care, man, it's always interesting to catch glimpses of your mind, you know, broadening my horizon ;)
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 18, 2019, 10:38:17 AM
Thank you Pete, I have been thinking about where my obnoxious behaviour online comes from, sometimes it is genuinely well placed, i.e. part of the process of polishing ones heart, which in Islam is known as Jihad, to site one particular tradition, other times I think it comes from a similar place to PMO addiction. I don't think motivation comes from the brain, but it is modulated by it. The amygdala reward centre which I have mentioned in the past and which has been identified as modulating fear and pleasure hormones as a means of rewarding behaviour, is very much linked to my political outbursts I think, i.e. they come from the dialectic between fear and pleasure, I am frightened by something in the world and how I imagine it might affect me, then take pleasure in venting it in an aggressive way making me feel powerful, boosting my ego, etc. I looked up the definition of politics, the following from Wikipedia:

"Politics refers to a set of activities associated with the governance of a country, or an area. It involves making decisions that apply to members of a group. It refers to achieving and exercising positions of governance—organized control over a human community, particularly a state."

So being political means acting in a way that achieves or exercises some position on the organisation of a collective. If being political comes from the dialectic of fear and pleasure then it is really coming from the baseist of instincts. As such it doesn't really achieve anything worthwhile other than satisfying the addiction to those instincts. Pleasure is a worthwhile aim, but pleasure at the expense of others is not. There is a line in the I Ching, the last topmost line of the hexagram about arguing, which states that one may gain a reputation for winning disputes, but such honours will be taken away time and time again, it is a yang line in a yin position, so the advice really is that at the end of a dispute one should concede, shake the other persons hand and acknowledge that a dispute takes the participation of both parties. I think most of the time when I am being obnoxious online I am trying to attract the attention of people I think are more powerful than me, wanting some of their power to rub off on me through interaction. Such narcissism is a mistake. The truth is that we are all equally powerful, it is how we exercise that power that counts, exercising power correctly is what separates the great from the good. I agree that respect is paramount in debating with people. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Pete McVries on March 18, 2019, 10:41:34 AM
I think, that is a great conclusion you've come up with. Try to integrate that in your everyday behaviour and you will come closer to your real self step by step.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 20, 2019, 10:58:05 AM
So practice is definitely something that I want to get into. But to do that I need to master my self. I've tended to practice on and off, never really dedicating commitment to one occupation, or discipline, to use another word, though if I am truthful, reasoning, philosophy, learning, has always been my raison d'etre, hence the interest in mathematics which is largely beyond me, at least in terms of protracted concentration. Little things like doing my ironing every day, I've largely ignored, but am now trying to do on a semi-regular basis. My mother is still much better than I at it, she says its a topological problem, which it is, and she seems to be able to stretch the fabric flat with a few simple waves of the heated iron perfectly, which I still believe is a form of magic that I am far from mastering. I want to start visualisation meditation again, I have a specific exercise on CD that I used to do with my meditation teacher on the three chakras known in China as the three dan tiens, these are the solar plexus, the heart and the brow. The colours used are different from those that mainstream yogis taught, and this difference, along with the difference between the system of seven chakras in yoga nad three dan tiens in qi gong made me pause my practice before I had developed a more complete understanding. Interestingly the only two spheres that can be parallelized are the three dimensional sphere and the seven dimensional sphere and I wonder if this has something to do with the difference between working with the three dan tiens and working with the seven chakras. I'm still not sure about how the integrated system of both works, I think not even university mathematicians know that, as I'm convinced it is related to the solution of the earth-moon problem in part whose solution has only been bounded as being somewhere between 9 and 12 inclusive by academics. However, as I said, it is practice that I want to do, rather than auditing the theory, parallelizing a sphere results in the creation of the tangent sphere, and so I believe that by working on these meditations I can strengthen the health of my energy body, assuming tangent spheres actually exist and are not just theoretical constructs. Anyway, I have a plan to start earning some money in six months time, and want to spend the intervening months preparing for the work. At the moment, just reading about mastering my desires is helpful, I'm following an American translation of the yogic system of four desires defined by dharma, artha, kama and moksha, which I translate with some overlap as purpose, survival, pleasure and freedom. This hopefully will help me to start to practice with more intent. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 20, 2019, 02:11:28 PM
Just a quick note, the three dan tiens actually differ from the three centres that my meditation teacher teaches in that the first of the dan tiens is the gut whereas the first of the centres is the solar plexus, both fit into the seven chakra system, whether they are merely subsets, or there is a fundamental difference between the system of three and the system of seven as in the difference between a three dimensional sphere and a seven dimensional sphere, the only two that can be parallelized (allowing the formation of tangent spheres) I'm not sure, more research on my part is needed. However, as I said, what I really need to do at some point is practice for my own survival and health, which will take some rewiring of the reward centre in my brain to achieve. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 21, 2019, 06:48:43 AM
So I only managed five days straight of reading everyday, actually forgetting to read yesterday as opposed to remembering to and not being able to bring myself to do it. This is worse than the seven days I did before, but at least with just forgetting, I haven't built up any resistance in my mind, so I can just start again today. Training myself not to seek instant gratification is key. Someone told me the difference between gambling and investing, investing means taking the long term perspective. I need to invest more in my future so I can climb out of my present state. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 22, 2019, 05:48:40 AM
So I read a chapter of my book on mastering or managing one's desires according to some Yogic inspired teachings. I've come to the first exercise, which is supposed to take at least an hour, whereby one writes some creative writing in order to uncover a phrase that succinctly describes one's dharma or life purpose. I don't really want to read anymore of the book until I've done this exercise, whilst at the same time I am feeling resistance to doing it. The idea that a succinct phrase capturing one's life purpose can help to focus one on one's strengths and motivate one in to doing what is most beneficial for one's life, makes sense, but it also seems too final. Drifting, which is what I am doing now, seems easier and more open ended. Without limits, one can't progress, I know that, so it really would be a good idea to do the exercise. I think drifting is linked to the process of instant gratification, with no long term aims. The creative writing is actually split into four pieces of writing, one for each of the forms of desire mentioned in the book, so I could potentially spread it out over four days, doing fifteen minutes or so on each, each day. Thinking about it now, that is what I'll do, so I'll try and do the first bit of writing today. Coming up to 200 days no P. Soon it will be seven months. Had a good chat with the lady I have been dating for what seems like ages without any physical interaction. We discussed sexual chemistry and whether she thought I was just stringing her along. It was a good discussion, and at the end I started to feel quite aroused, which hasn't happened much in my interaction with her before. However, my brain has still been wired to turn to MO rather than sex when aroused and I cut the conservation short and went back to trying to focus on asexual things. That this was my reaction worries me somewhat and I regret not trying to get even more intimate. I don't know how to address this at the moment. Will keep you all updated. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 22, 2019, 01:16:09 PM
So after nine months no PMO, six and a half months no P, I PMOd today. It feels like all my progress has been lost, but I need to focus on the positives. Nine months is the longest I've ever been without PMO, my previous record being six months. Six and half months is the longest I've ever been without P, my previous record being five months. I am succeeding. I still don't want to be forty and searching for P. I need to focus on the positives and step up my rewiring process. That means addressing not just PMO but instant gratification in general. I came across the following article: https://blog.iqmatrix.com/instant-gratification which I think is helpful, applies to PMO and instant gratification in general. Summarising the first five steps from the article we have:

Step 1: Know What You Want. ...
Step 2: Identify Potential Obstacles. ...
Step 3: Build a Strong Support Network. ...
Step 4: Set Clear Boundaries. ...
Step 5: Create a Reward System. ...

As you can see these apply to learning to invest in long term gratification, something that I believe is a must for overcoming PMO. The first step overlaps with the first step in my book on mastering or managing desires. Knowing what you want and knowing your life purpose are slightly different things in that you may want something that is not in keeping with your life purpose. This is why I am still hesitant to do the life purpose exercise. The idea behind the life purpose exerices is to harmonise your desire for purpose with your natural strengths, those that you have been endowed with since birth. This way, you should succeed at life by playing to your strengths. I can see the logic in this. But I can also see that setting challenging goals that go against your natural calling is a way of developing yourself as well. Indeed a life coach I know of made the statement, "always do that which requires the most emotional effort", in other words, if you want to develop yourself, always choose the most challenging option. The book about mastering or managing your desires is about finding happiness. Developing yourself may not necessarily be a happy experience. Taken together, steps 1, 2 and 4 address this contradiction. Know what you want, identify potential obstacles and set clear boundaries. Indeed, to my mind, the idea that you even have an absolute life purpose is suspect, there are no absolutes. Identifying the thing you want that is most in line with your natural endowments may make it easier to succeed at life and easier to be happy, but it doesn't mean that you can't challenge yourself by playing to desires that are outside of that. This is where identifying potential obstacles and setting clear boundaries comes in. Building a strong support network, like we have here, and setting up a reward system are also crucial. Too often the reward is to relapse after you've beaten your record, or spent a long time in abstinance, the reward may even be writing here and getting a response from someone else. This is not a reward system, but a return to instant gratification. A reward system is a planned system of rewards for long term success. I have met and exceeded my target of the last five years or so. I'm not going to let myself slip again. I read a chapter of my clinical evidence book today. I will do the exercise for identifying my life purpose soon, though I am putting it off for the time being, it being too soon after my relapse. I'm going to start doing some maths revision again. There are twenty one chapters left of my clinical evidence book, so I'm going to do twenty one days of reading a chapter a day and doing some maths revision. Then I'm going to reward myself. I need to think of what that reward can be. I'm not sure what the difference between a reward that is a form of planned instant gratification and a reward that is a form of long term gratification is. Whether it is chemical or transcendental or something else. Taking a break, rest, is a form of reward, and this might be the best form of all, in the same way that meditation rewards us from the chatter of our mind, or a good nights sleep rewards us from a hard days work. Other forms of reward are things like experiencing beauty, for example a holiday in a naturally idyllic environment. Not every reward is like a sugar or dopamine rush. I'll have to think about my how and when I'm going to reward myself some more. My twenty one days to finish my book and do some maths revision start now. I'm not sure what stage I'm at in the process of rewiring my sexual relationships. But I do know that I have done better than I have ever done before and I will do better than even this in the coming months and years. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 23, 2019, 07:54:36 AM
So as always after relapsing after a long stint of abstinence, I feel motivated to try and better myself again. It shouldn't be this way. I don't want to have to rely on relapsing to motivate myself. I had been stagnating. Now I am doing half-an-hour's maths revision every day and reading two chapters a day of books. It is not much, but it is much more than what I was doing before. This is why I really have to focus on getting away from instant gratification over the long term. I'm setting myself a target of maintaining this level of study for three weeks. I will reward myself with a cheesecake (I know it sounds funny, but I do like cheesecake) at the end of each week successfully completed. The difficult part will be after three weeks. Setting an open ended study is problematic because it means that I just tail off eventually. What has tended to happen, is that the moment I miss a day of my study routine, I have simply collapsed. So the real challenge will be being able to start again after taking a couple of days to a week's break after the three weeks are up. This is about learning to time manage. Factoring in breaks, so that it is not open ended, whilst keeping the momentum. Being able to stop and start study at will, rather than just frantic motivation caused by wanting to make up for PMO relapse followed by drifting in the dull drums until I relapse again. So I need to think how I can manage a break after three weeks and then a restart for another three weeks without relapse. I'm going to see if Google has any answers to this. There are some videos on overcoming instant gratification that I'm going to watch as well. One thing I know is that I'm not going back to the same addictive behaviour again. There are just over nine months till the end of the year. I'm going to make it through that time without PMO, I promise. So today is the first day of twenty one in which I'm studying and reading. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Pete McVries on March 23, 2019, 09:26:45 AM
Cheesecake, hmmmmm. Add some blueberries and you have me by the balls ;D. Good luck with your reading/studying, it's inspiring to read about your efforts. Keep going, mate!
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 23, 2019, 11:36:51 AM
So I'm not going to go back to my old ways of addiction. I have just over nine months of the year left. I'm not going to be searching for P in my forties. I've set myself a target for the next three weeks, half-an-hours maths revision and read two chapters of my books everyday. I've set myself a reward system, cheesecake at the end of each week successfully completed. So I have some boundaries and some level of reward. I'm thinking that I should make the boundaries stricter, laying out specific times in the day when I do my activities. I think that might make it easier to start again after a break at the end of three weeks. I have a lot of resistance to setting definite or specific times. It is part of the mentality of drifting, doing things on a whim, in an undisciplined manner. However I think it is something I should do. I'm going to do the first week unstructured and then set some times for the second week. I've read the first chapter of the day already today and done fifteen minutes maths revision. I also did some ironing. I still have to read a second chapter and do another fifteen minutes of maths. Breaking up the day means breaking up the flow of my thoughts. It means directing my attention to things outside of me, introducing thoughts that do not come from myself. Reading is very different from browsing the internet. When browsing, there is still a lot of direction coming from within, one chooses what to read or click on. Being able to concentrate on one thing outside of oneself for a sustained period of time and then integrate it into the flow of one's daily thoughts is a skill I have lost somewhat. Drifting, browsing, does not feel any more satisfactory, but it does fit with the instant gratification model which I am so used to. I impatiently search for the next hit which acts to create momentum to my flow of thoughts. The long term gratification model, the disciplined gratification model, these affect the flow of my thoughts differently. Actually thinking about time in the day, thinking about the need to meet certain requirements, disrupts the flow. That is until the new routine is established. Establishing a strict routine is the opposite of instant gratification. No one likes being aware of time, but having a naturally ordered structure is good. Making an artificial structure natural is a question of settling into it, acclimatising so to speak. I don't know if I need to develop a more detailed reward system to compliment setting specific times. I think that might be a good idea too. Maybe allowing myself a coffee after each thing is completed, or writing here, which is also a reward in a sense for me. The blog article I linked in my previous post says that using instant gratification activities or stimulations for rewards is ok if it is part of a structure, in other words it is within your control, linking instant gratification to long term gratification in a constructive structured way. I'm not really sure about this, whether instant gratification can ever be anything other than self-destructive and addictive for me. Maybe I am being too reductionist. Gratification after long term effort is not instant, even if the brain chemistry is. Anyway, I'm waffling a lot, trying to talk myself into long term self-development. As I said, I've read one chapter and done one half of my revision, now I have to read another chapter and do the other half. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 24, 2019, 04:46:19 AM
So yesterday was a success. But... There are at least twelve hours in the day, I managed about an hour in total of doing something productive split into four fifteen minute sessions spread across the day. It felt like I'd done a lot, but one hour out of twelve is really nothing. If I'm ever going to get back into work I need to be able to do much more than this. My casual work as a research assistant was six hours per week, so less than an hour a day. Maybe it is not so bad, but the average working week is forty eight hours per week. The key thing is consistency for me, though. I couldn't even complete the twelve weeks of casual work as I had a psychotic relapse in the middle. I don't put this down to the work, other factors were at play, but it does show my current limitations. I finished everything by 18:00 yesterday, starting at around 12:00pm after spending some time with my brother. So one hour within six. Today is day two of my three week challenge. The key for me is to make it to the end of three weeks having done what I have already laid out to do. If I manage more, then all to the good. I'm going to try and get everything done today by 12:00pm, starting at 10:00am. Study is demanding, and I need time to process the information I acquire. I spend 90% of my time contemplating, just letting my thoughts drift, and processing my life and understanding of the world. A lot of this is down to having had such earth-shattering experiences whilst psychotic. Fitting everything together into a coherent world view is difficult and I have to take it slow. Writing helps a lot. I waste a lot of time drinking coffee in my local café. I'm not allowed to smoke in the house, so that is another reason I go there besides the caffeine. I drink about five to six coffees a day, and it must be affecting me in some way, although I don't notice any bad effects at all. I think it helps to balance the meds that I'm on which have a side effect of making you drowsy. Coffee and cigarettes are another form of instant gratification. Delaying these until after I have completed my study tasks is a way of taking ownership of the addictions, whilst at the same time could form a sort of reward system for the long term investment that study affords. So anyway, today is day two. I will do fifteen minutes revision at 10:00am and then read a chapter of one of my books, before going to the café at 11:00am. Then I will do another fifteen minutes revision and read another chapter of one of my books. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 24, 2019, 02:22:21 PM
So what led me to PMO again? I can't help but note that it came shortly after joining an interpersonal relationship forum for talking about dating, friendships, marriages, love, sexual relations, etc. etc. I felt like I was not getting anywhere with the woman I had been dating which was the reason I joined. Some of the advice I have received there has helped me, but the fact is I PMOd shortly after joining. One can infer cause and effect between any two events separated by an interval of time if one tries hard enough, but this connection certainly seems relevant to me. I need to make the choice not to PMO and commit to it. One good thing is I did my study for today, hopefully I will be able to do the full twenty one days of this. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 25, 2019, 06:02:31 AM
So the problem with relapsing is it gives you the impression that you've changed your mind, because you made a choice to relapse, and thus you've already made the choice. I want to read up on the dopamine dysregulation that PMO causes and hypofrontality, under performance of the frontal lobes. I get the impression that these two things are related to executive decision making regulation by the brain. Ultimately I think the brain doesn't make decisions, it only modulates or regulates them, we ourselves, our souls or our God part makes the decision. However the modulation and regulation by the brain is important as it changes how we perceive our choices.

So far the only bit of the brain I've read up on is the amygdala which sets up the dialectic between fear and pleasure. I also want to pursue understanding this as it relates to my fear of physical intimacy, and the messed up wiring of my reward system for sexual pleasure that years of PMO abuse has caused.

With regards to rewiring and self-development, I still need to focus on moving away from addiction to instant gratification in all walks of life, and rewire with regards to investing in long term gratification or joy. However I also need to put more conscious direction into developing my ability to have sexual relationships.

I am getting close to forty years of age, and hoping that time will simply heal my wiring is not good enough. I dated a woman for four months and we didn't even kiss and that was entirely due to my bad wiring. I need to be more proactive in addressing these problems, not just wait and hope everything will resolve itself.

With this in mind, I've ordered a couple of books on intimacy. These will be my starting point. I'm also going to Google the top ten romance novels and top ten dating books and read through those to give me a better idea of how women feel sexually, what sort of responses and approaches they appreciate and so on.

Ignoring this aspect of my reboot allowed me to abstain for a sustained period of time, but when I finally did come to try and address it I relapsed, showing that the journey has only just begun with respect to love.

The key is build on the progress I have made, not look back, and make the choice to never search for P again.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 25, 2019, 01:42:54 PM
So almost finished day 3 of my three week study and reading challenge, just one fifteen minute session of revision to go.

In the mean time I've been thinking a bit more about my experience with sexual relationships. I came across the following article:
https://www.elitedaily.com/dating/sex/why-you-should-never-date-a-philosopher

The five key points are as follows:

1. We think we’re very smart and can be very stubborn.
2. We can love very deeply, but rarely allow ourselves to.
3. Since we question everything, we will inevitably question whether or not we love you.
4. Our heads are our playground, and we may spend more time in there alone than some may find acceptable.
5. We’re lone wolves by nature and sometimes still think we’d be better off alone.

All of this seems very familiar and applicable to me and it makes me think that if I'm going to succeed at sexual relationships, I have to learn to turn the philosopher part of my personality off. Indeed I'd already realised that to some extent when I realised that I had to listen more without questioning. Philosophising helps one to negotiate personal problems on one's own, other people can find it interesting when it provides a framework for resolving their own problems, raising questions they hadn't thought of before, but both of these things act to separate the relationship into one of teacher-student which is not what healthy sexual relationships are about, a meeting of equals. When I raised the issue of me getting involved in polics and being political, my mother said I spend most of my time philosophising. As I said, being successful politically and demonstrating that is sexually attractive, struggling to understand things, raising questions about things outside of a relationship is not sexually attractive, it is work, and work is the biggest turn off for sex. A loving relationship involves dividing tasks and work and so in a marriage, inevitably there is some discussion of mutual concerns, but raising individual concerns that are not about the relationship is divisive. Philosophising tends to show that one loves one's own mind more than one loves anothers. Indeed philo actually means love of companionship, and philosophy means love of the companionship of wisdom. Thus philosophising tends to show that one loves the companionship of one's own wisdom, it is not even demonstrating wisdom, providing solutions to other's problems, but demonstrating a love for one's wisdom over the wisdom of another. I think the first step is learning to listen, which I have been doing, learning to love the other person for who they are, without judging whether what they are saying is wise or not. This opens one to new experiences, including sexual ones, since wisdom comes from the knowledge of old experiences. Being wise is the ability to choose between new experiences successfully in light of the old. Sometimes, however, in order to stay fresh, one has to take a risk. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 26, 2019, 05:03:25 AM
So today is day four of my 21 day reading and study challenge. I'm going to try and get all my prescribed reading and study done by 13:00 each day from now on, starting with today. Haven't got much else to say. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on March 26, 2019, 12:29:57 PM
So almost finished day 3 of my three week study and reading challenge, just one fifteen minute session of revision to go.

In the mean time I've been thinking a bit more about my experience with sexual relationships. I came across the following article:
https://www.elitedaily.com/dating/sex/why-you-should-never-date-a-philosopher

The five key points are as follows:

1. We think we’re very smart and can be very stubborn.
2. We can love very deeply, but rarely allow ourselves to.
3. Since we question everything, we will inevitably question whether or not we love you.
4. Our heads are our playground, and we may spend more time in there alone than some may find acceptable.
5. We’re lone wolves by nature and sometimes still think we’d be better off alone.

All of this seems very familiar and applicable to me and it makes me think that if I'm going to succeed at sexual relationships, I have to learn to turn the philosopher part of my personality off. Indeed I'd already realised that to some extent when I realised that I had to listen more without questioning. Philosophising helps one to negotiate personal problems on one's own, other people can find it interesting when it provides a framework for resolving their own problems, raising questions they hadn't thought of before, but both of these things act to separate the relationship into one of teacher-student which is not what healthy sexual relationships are about, a meeting of equals. When I raised the issue of me getting involved in polics and being political, my mother said I spend most of my time philosophising. As I said, being successful politically and demonstrating that is sexually attractive, struggling to understand things, raising questions about things outside of a relationship is not sexually attractive, it is work, and work is the biggest turn off for sex. A loving relationship involves dividing tasks and work and so in a marriage, inevitably there is some discussion of mutual concerns, but raising individual concerns that are not about the relationship is divisive. Philosophising tends to show that one loves one's own mind more than one loves anothers. Indeed philo actually means love of companionship, and philosophy means love of the companionship of wisdom. Thus philosophising tends to show that one loves the companionship of one's own wisdom, it is not even demonstrating wisdom, providing solutions to other's problems, but demonstrating a love for one's wisdom over the wisdom of another. I think the first step is learning to listen, which I have been doing, learning to love the other person for who they are, without judging whether what they are saying is wise or not. This opens one to new experiences, including sexual ones, since wisdom comes from the knowledge of old experiences. Being wise is the ability to choose between new experiences successfully in light of the old. Sometimes, however, in order to stay fresh, one has to take a risk. Thank you.
So when are you going to take a risk, Georgos? Are you going to philosophise your way to taking a risk - thereby seeking to decrease the risk factor? Or are you just going to take a risk? When does theory become practice? As a scientist, do you see merit in empirical/experiential research on this (dive in take a chance), or will you inch your way there through the evolution of your theories? I'm not trying to be sarcastic here, but I do think you need to think about how painstaking/exhaustive this process is for you and how it precludes some important elements of the sexual equation from ever being possible: namely, the mystery factor of sexual attraction,  the enjoyment of something irrational in nature, that is, the intentional avoidance of rational analysis in experiencing sexual/romantic pleasure. I think the human brain is designed to shut out excessive thinking when seeking pleasure. It's an evolutionary design to stop us from talking/thinking ourselves out of the reproductive act. People who think about things too much don't find themselves in that magical place where sexual chemistry exists. Not that we need to become blithering idiots when we are romantically or sexually entangled, but seeking to examine our connection with somebody with whom we are being intimate will almost certainly annihilate the magical feelings. It starts as critical analysis, then becomes scepticism and doubt. This is where intelligent people struggle because they are used to deconstructing everything and it seems wrong to them not to deconstruct their relationships too. The smartest "intelligent" people create exceptions in which some things are not treated to the same rigorous analysis as other things are. You don't need to question your love for your dog or your child, for example. You simply embrace the experience and revel in that connection. Romantic feelings with another person rely on both parties leaving the analysis at the door to a large extent. The bond is formed in these embryonic stages when analysis is minimal  - if not intentional. Practicalities can enter later.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: aquarius25 on March 26, 2019, 12:49:47 PM
So I have just read a large part of this journal. I have to say I completely respect just how much you put into your analysis and thoughts. Quite the deep thinker and defiantly appreciated your perspective on many things. I am inclined to agree with Malando though, you gotta take a risk as well. Thinking and philosophizing is only one part of the life experience. What about feeling? I understand that individuals that are very deep thinkers tend to live in the mind more but I do believe that a balance is important. Have you considered taking an art class? That might be a good way to try? Art is very expressive and can be feeling base as well as intellectual. Taking a class also lends itself to you being around others and having the opportunity to interact, connect, and hear as well as see different perspectives of art. Just a thought. I mean this post to be encouraging and hope you receive it as such.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 26, 2019, 02:33:53 PM
Thank you Malando and Aquarius for your kind and helpful comments. Malando, I have been dating somebody for four months and we have yet to even kiss, however I'm not sure this is so much about risk as about sexual chemistry, which has been lacking. A bigger risk for me to take would be to start trying to date somebody else, at the moment I am not thinking of doing that, rather I am hoping that the situation with the woman I am dating will improve from a sexual chemistry point of view over time. I don't think you can force these things, in the mean time I view it merely as a learning curve, which perhaps isn't very fair on the woman I'm dating, but hey, she can walk away too if she wants.

Aquarius, art classes are a good idea. What I really wanted to do, but chickened out, was acting classes. I thought that would really help me a lot.

Anyway, I have done my study and reading for the day, completing day four of my challenge. Seventeen days to go. I also remind myself to make the choice not to PMO. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 27, 2019, 05:27:04 AM
So day five of my 21 day reading and study challenge. Again I want to get everything done by 13:00. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: aquarius25 on March 27, 2019, 11:48:34 AM
Gerorgos, an acting class is great and encourages interaction as well but I also believe that some form of 2D or 3D art that you can also practice at home is good for using the right side of your brain more. I think considering how introspecting you are that you might find you really enjoy taking these philosophic concepts and putting imagery around them. Just a thought. Good luck to you!
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 28, 2019, 05:01:08 AM
Thanks aquarius, I'll look into it. At the moment I'm just trying to focus on getting through my 21 day challenge or reading and studying of which today is day six. Am going to try and get everything done by 13:00 again. With regards to relationships, I'm hoping my reading will help, but it may take me more into my mind again, I really don't know what to do, somebody told me you can't force sexual chemistry, I don't want to lose the relationship I have at the moment, but I'm seriously considering trying to find other ones, though I don't know how I'd go about that other that internet dating again, which I'm hesitant to do. Persevering with this relationship in the meantime is probably good for me anyway. So as I said, today is day six. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Patron E on March 28, 2019, 07:42:50 AM
Hi Georges,

I have a suggestion to your study - try changing the story in your head to read 'success comes with time devoted to continuous time which is devoted to success'.

It's purposefully meant to be read that way.

Believe that is true and you will make your study work for you. Do not see study as a challenge, learning is about having fun, exploration and building new worlds from the ones we already see.

Good luck & never give up!


Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 28, 2019, 08:37:52 AM
Thank you Patron for your kind advice. I think you are right, applying oneself to doing something continuously as opposed to in chunks leads to success. On the other hand factoring in breaks and rest is equally important or rather limits and boundaries in order to form a sustainable and continuous rhythm. I have been a bit behind today, only doing half my reading and study by 13:00 but I am still getting there.

I've read a short treatise on kama, the Hindu valour of pleasure. It was interesting, it basically said that kama is what binds us to maya, the illusionary worlds of existence, the things that we are experiencing, the lessons that we are learning, moksha, the Hindu valour of spiritual fulfilment, is the deliverance from kama and the illusionary worlds of existence, it is the state of having experienced, having learned, knowledge of true existence. I will have to think about this some more.

I have also started reading my book on intimacy by Osho. It states that we all fear intimacy, dropping our defences, becoming open to vulnerability and so on. I have been thinking about this in relation to the amygdala and sex. The amygdala modulates sensations of fear and pleasure, with one side being devoted entirely to fear and the other being devoted to both fear and pleasure. Intimacy is the fear. We all know what pleasure is. Fear is thus an integral part of the amygdala reward centre. With PMO I always feel fear, indeed the pleasure is strongest if it begins with an intense fear. Intimacy also produces fear, the fear of being vulnerable. Psychosis also produces fear, the fear of chaotic reality endangering survival. They say intimacy is necessary for love, just as fear is necessary for pleasure. I simply don't feel fear with the woman I am currently dating, not even fear of being intimate, but perhaps that is because I am not trying to be intimate enough. I certainly am still defending parts of myself. I am at ease being intellectually intimate, but sexually I am not. The problem is I don't feel fear of being sexually intimate, I simply shut it off, defend against it, don't allow myself to feel that fear. Thus I don't feel the intense pleasure that comes from moving from one side of the amygdala to the other, nor do I feel the pleasure/fear modulation of combining intimacy with sex. I don't know whether sexual relations have to begin with pure fear and then move on to pleasure/fear, or whether one can go straight to the pleasure/fear side of the amygdala, or whether, indeed the two sides can act as one, this being a form of super intense pleasure/fear, such discussion is for the neuroscientists. However, I do know that I am defending against intimacy. How to open myself up to sexual intimacy I don't know. Intellectual intimacy is easy for me, but sexual intimacy is not. I have much left to read of Osho's book on intimacy, so I will let you know whether it stimulates me to take some practical steps with regards to sexual intimacy soon. For now I might note that there is also a question of how it relates to being love shy, wanting the woman to take the sexual initiative and lead. I do feel some sexual fear, when I open myself up to being touched, but that is the traditional role, perhaps even biological norm, of the woman, so when I open up to being touched, I feel fear of being intimate, but nothing happens, because this is not the normal male role. I also feel fear of being forward physically, but I suppress it, in this way I am love shy, if such a condition even exists, more likely it is that I have trained myself to suppress it through the years of trying to control PMO. Personally, I think labelling PMO as an addiction is only helpful up to a point, I think a better way of describing our condition is as a neurosis, we have porn neurosis, but perhaps such distinctions are up to the academic discussions of psychiatrists and psychologists for whom I have very little time. Anyway, will update on the issue of intimacy and my sexual relationships when I've read and experienced some more. For now, I need to do the second half of my study and reading. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on March 28, 2019, 01:36:55 PM
It's very unlikely that sexual chemistry will spring out of nowhere this deep into a relationship. How does she feel about it? Does she want sexual intimacy, and it is only you who is holding back? Or are both of you holding back on this front? On what basis do you judge this to be a "romantic" relationship, as distinct from a platonic one?

I think that if she is wanting sexual intimacy from you, and you have no desire to go there with her, the relationship's days are numbered. She will eventually find somebody who can give her what she wants. So you really have a decision to make there: do you want this to continue? How invested in this are you really? Are you ok with letting her go?

Sexual chemistry very rarely springs up between people who have known each other for a long time. There are only a few instances where tends to happen. Usually it's the result of two people getting drunk and losing their usual senses for a brief period. Sometimes it's the result of a bad event in somebody's life, say a relationship breakup, the loss of somebody, some sort of disappointment which might lend itself towards comforting type behaviour, which leads to sexual intimacy. It's rare, but it does happen. And if it happens once, it can trigger a re-evaluation of the friendship and a transitioning into a romantic/sexual connection. But in your case, I don't think it's going to happen unless you make a conscious decision to give it a try. Maybe you just don't really want her in this way? That's ok if you don't, but you should really let her know if she has hopes of things going further. Six months is plenty of time to get the lay of the land. It sounds like you just aren't that into her, to be honest.

I'm assuming you have had successful sexual encounters/relationships in the past: how would you contrast past experiences to what is happening here? Is this simply a platonic friendship? Sexual chemistry is usually notable by its effortlessness. But of course, recovering porn-addicts have additional factors which play into their levels of desire and ability to be stimulated. Only you can judge if you think this is a product of your porn-addict past, and your natural attraction to this girl. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on these questions.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 29, 2019, 07:07:44 AM
Malando, I think she does want sexual intimacy but she wants me to initiate it on her terms. I am very fearful of this, fearful of misreading signals, and fearful of putting myself forward. I basically don't trust myself to initiate sexual acts, and I think that is the result of my years of PMO abuse and the neurosis about stopping that it engendered. It is a vicious circle, if I don't trust myself, then she doesn't trust me, and then I trust myself even less. It's got to the point where I don't really want to spend time with her because it reminds me so much of my lack of trust in myself at being physically sexually intimate. This has very little to do with her, and all to do with the internal wiring that has come from my PMO abuse in the past, so I don't want to give up on the relationship because I want to try and rewire so that I do trust myself to be sexually physical. Besides, I also like the fact that she desires me and is there for me to text and speak to. It makes me feel more comfortable knowing that I have this relationship, even if it is not really a proper one. It is far better than the years in the wilderness. With my first and only real girlfriend, she was an ex-stripper, and so she was comfortable initiating sexual intimacy with me, she basically took the lead, but it was still a dysfunctional relationship. I think I might be ok with letting this current girl go if I found somebody like my first girlfriend again, somebody who would take the lead physically, but on the other hand I think that it is better for me to try and work through my lack of trust and learn to initiate sexual intimacy myself. I've told her she's free to find someone else if she wants. As I said, I think the real issue is my bad wiring from PMO abuse, and not whether or not we are compatible, she herself says that she thinks we are very compatible. Anyway, I don't really want to talk to much about it, some privacy is essential to a loving relationship.

Today is day seven of my reading and studying challenge. It's getting a bit late in the day to finish by 13:00 but I will aim to finish by 14:00 at the latest. I also remind myself to choose a life without PMO again. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Pete McVries on March 29, 2019, 09:33:36 AM
What do you want, Georgos? Do you have any desire to be intimate with her or do you just stress yourself because intimacy it the next logical step so to say? If you have any desire in you to kiss her or to be intimate with her then you should initiate it. Of course, it's frightening, you are putting yourself out there in danger, if you will, but what can really happen? The worst thing could be that she won't want to kiss you back and maybe leave you but what's the harm? You will survive and your life won't be in danger. I'm writing you because I'm basically facing the same situation with the girl I'm dating now. I have to initiate everything, she won't even ask for a date. If I don't do it, the two of us will never meet again. And I'm pretty damn sure that she is very attracted to me. But that's just the way how some of these women work. They are very traditional in a sense (this is not the right word maybe but I'm lacking a better one). So, I'm visualizing a lot these days. I'm going to see her someday next week and I've thought a lot about how I could initiate intimacy without being awkward. At the moment, I'm pretty confident that I can make it happen but if it'll fail so be it. There is this huge obstacle in my way to recovery and I have to climb it in order to recover fully. There is just no way around it as much as I curse the climb. But if I manage to overcome all this, I'll grow immensely as a man and a person. You know, for me it's not just initiating everything but I haven't even kissed in so many years, I sometimes fear, I have forgotten how to do it properly. It's scary and frigthening but what can I do? There is no way around it, there are no cheat codes, there are no shortcuts. That's the reality of the situation. Face it like a man and face it when you feel ready. But as a thinker myself, I can tell you, don't get stuck inside your head or don't OVERthink it. Never ever has anything productive been the result of overthinking. Sometimes we need to take that risk, sometimes we maybe need somebody who gives us a little push to start doing IT. To start doing IT at all whatever it may be in this particular situation.

Wishing you all the best!
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 30, 2019, 08:15:54 AM
Thanks for replying Pete, I have a fear to be authentic sexually, stemming from my PMO abuse which means I don't trust myself sexually or my sexual desires. For example, I will be sitting in a café and some girls come to the next table, and I will have an urge to chat them up, and immediately I will repress it for fear of being a creep or perverse, which is an extreme word, but that is the level of repression that I apply. This then makes me feel uncomfortable, reinforcing my lack of trust in myself. Similarly, I might be dating a girl and I sense that she is opening herself up to be intimate, or I desire to be intimate, and I will doubt myself and suppress my instincts, again through fear of being inappropriate. Even in my conversation with women I am constantly guarding myself against saying the wrong thing and doubting my sexual instincts. In the book on intimacy that I am reading by Osho, it first says that we fear being intimate, and then says that the first thing you have to do to be intimate is trust yourself. How can I trust myself whilst I am a slave to PMO? As you say, I don't think overthinking this will help, the only solution is to take the plunge so to speak. I will let you know how it goes with the woman I am dating now.

Now today is day 8 of my 21 day reading and studying challenge, I have done a weeks worth so today I can reward myself with a cheesecake! Yay!. Have to make sure I continue though, it's gone 13:00 so I won't be able to get everything done by then, but I will get it done, I'm sure. And I remind myself to choose a life without PMO again. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on March 31, 2019, 06:12:32 AM
So I only managed a week of my reading and studying challenge. I did do some yesterday, but not everything that I had set myself the task of doing. As always when I fail at keeping up a routine of study, I seem to crash, and give up completely. That's how it feels today. I'm thinking that I need to take a break to confirm that I failed, make the failure really count. It's an all or nothing mentality. I don't know where it comes from, what the psychological reasons for it are. In principle there is no reason why I just can't carry one doing more full days of study and reading, ignoring this little blip, but that's not how I feel. I feel like I need to make the blip into a catastrophe. It strikes me that this mentality may come from my years of PMO abuse messing with my reward system. Anyway, will update again a bit later today when hopefully I will have returned to my challenge. I once again remind myself to choose a life without PMO. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on March 31, 2019, 06:36:57 AM
That's a dangerous myth you are living by there, Georgos. All-or-nothing thinking may well be exacerbated by your years of PMO abuse, but it's a convenient belief system in some ways: it always provides you with a ready made excuse for relapse. ie the idea that your standards are so incredibly high that any step down from those standards just offends you to your moral core. It's self-deception designed to make a virtue out fo a shortcoming. I know only too well about this. It's total bullshit though. It's a game we play with ourselves to try to get out of taking responsibility for things. There is a myth that the "perfection" we try to stick to is a clear unarguable standard - but what if that standard is also questionable?

Let's go with a very clear example relating to food. The perfectionist dieter tries to avoid all food that could be construed as junk food - no takeaway, no sugar, no trans-fats, low GI, only fresh produce, high nutrition. Then you add the obsessive exercise on top of that. The perfectionist believes this is the unarguable standard by which good eating and healthy living is measured. But of course, he can't maintain it, he fails and eats a big greasy pizza or a family size block of chocolate. He then takes the self-pity route and says. "oh I'm such a screw up, I might as well have a binge - heck, I might as well wait until Monday, or the first of next month to get back onto the perfect track." It's amazing how many people are doing this. They are enabling the prolonged binge by setting the bar too high, at a level they will never be able to maintain. It's self-sabotage, but it's also self-indulgence. It's what a brain does when it really doesn't want to commit to real sustainable change. It's setting a contrast between the most "virtuous" behaviour and the most indulgent behaviour and saying that if I'm not doing one, I must be doing the other.

The wise man accepts that perfection is actually sustainable balance - it's not a militant program of self-denial, masquerading as perfection. You see, when you live in sustainable balance, you are forced to confront yourself and your indulgent tendencies. You actually can have a little piece of cake, but not too much, you can just go for a walk instead of a 10km run, but you can't just do nothing either. It means you have to be that more more engaged and connected to your mind and body's real needs. You can't just run roughshod over what is good for you by constantly vacillating between impossibly rigid self-denial, and irresponsible self-abuse. You have to tread the line. That means knowing your mind and body. Polarised thinkers don't want to do that - they want it to be mentally simple to conceptualise - "I can do this, and I can't do that". It's an avoidant tendency which stops people checking in with themselves and making sure everything is running ok. It's not the way to live. Indeed, I've come to the conclusion that "perfection" is the state of eternal compromise between that which we want, and that which is necessary. The other "perfection" is nothing more than a delusion to allow you to give up on things that are hard and to indulge in things as a consequence.

I advise you to give this some consideration because you certainly do have the ability to choose to get right onto your study tomorrow if you wish. But you really need to evaluate whether you want to do the things that you are labelling as perfect/necessary. Whatever you decide to commit to must  be sustainable, and also resumable if you miss a day. 
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 01, 2019, 03:37:33 AM
Thanks Malando, I don't know what to say other than you're absolutely right. I have fourteen chapters of my book left which should take me fourteen days to complete on a chapter a day, so two weeks. The other book and the maths revision are more tricky to quantify. Definite end points are really helpful and part of setting boundaries. Making them realistic is also essential. Whenever I fail in meeting a target, I always think I need to revise my plans, rather than stick to the original plan and ignore the blip. The revision process leads me to an existential crisis of why I'm doing the task anyway and for what purpose. This paralyses me. I still have deep issues with motivation. I'm torn between wanting to live in the moment and not wanting instant gratification. Or maybe I do want instant gratification, I just know its not good for me. All the spiritual teachers that I'm reading say to live in the present, in the now, to surrender to the insecurity of life, whilst at the same time to have faith and trust in oneself and God, they all recommend practice, which requires effort. I simply cannot square all these things in my mind, perhaps because they cannot be squared. Perhaps I am look for a "perfect" answer where there isn't one. At any rate I will set a new target of study and reading for a week, with a reward of cheesecake at the end again. I managed this once so I can manage it again. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: HumbleRich on April 01, 2019, 09:28:17 AM
Hey Georgos, there are a lot of interesting thoughts there.  I have been looking for books to.read to extend my practice.  I have  already read the basic Buddhist scriptures and am now reading the sutras.  I am actually looking for books by contemporary  Buddhist teachers to help interpret these though.  I am a Buddhist atheist.  I don't believe in the  supernatural, but I practice Buddhism as a philosophy of mental health.  I have found it especially helpful and therapeutic.  Thanks for the thoughtful posts. 

Rich
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 02, 2019, 05:18:51 AM
Hi Rich, thanks for the kind comment. I try not to label myself or put myself in a box, if a Buddhist teacher resonates with me then I will absorb that, if a Christian teacher resonates with me then I will absorb that also, and so on. I was brought up an atheist and since starting to explore spirituality have gone through all sorts of hoops to still refer to myself as an atheist (having just said I try not to put a label on myself ha ha), my favourite reasoning is that any reference to God is idolatry since even God is a word, a thing. "The real Tao is not that which can be spoken" as the famous saying goes. Anyway, I'm glad you're finding some guidance.

Yesterday I didn't do what I set out to do, only some of it, getting distracted by other things, which weren't necessarily bad, I wanted to do them, it's just that I know I am much better when I stick to a routine. So anyway, no cheesecake this week. I'm still going to try and stick to my routine, perhaps have the cheesecake a week from now, if I manage a solid week. Cheesecake is not so special, but the idea of it as a treat or reward sticks in my mind, so for psychological reasons at least, that is what I have chosen. I think I'll only manage to get half of my study/revision and reading done before 13:00 today, which is what I did yesterday, but I will try to do it all before 15:00. I remind myself once again to choose a life without PMO. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 03, 2019, 03:27:29 AM
So I only managed a quarter of what I set out to do yesterday and even that I only managed to do after 15:00. Repeatedly documenting failure is not really helpful I find, so if I fail again today to do my study/reading, I'll try not to mention it until next time I succeed. There is something to be said to focusing on the positives. So yesterday I did one session of study/revision which was good. Today I'm going to try and do two sessions before 13:00 again. It's still early so I've got plenty of time. I need to remind myself why I am doing this and that's part of the problem. It is mostly for security, securing my life against the insecurities of the future. In the book I am reading which is effecting me quite strongly, Osho, who I heard of before but never really realised I liked so much, says that we should stop chasing after security and embrace the insecurity of life. I may be misinterpreting, whether he says to never try and establish security or not. His general point is that life is fundamentally insecure because it keeps changing, trying to secure against the change cannot bring enjoyment because it is not embracing the changing nature of life. I said that I am mostly studying/revising to secure against the future, but I am also doing it to manifest a change in my life, to try an move to a different position. Applying logic to oneself, one always gets tangled up, because the logic becomes self-referential. Logic cannot motivate. The point is, whether I do it or not, life will always be changing, always be insecure. I think this is a lesson for abstaining from PMO too. It is why, fundamentally, it has to be a choice. We have to choose to do something, choose to stop. They say madness is repeating the same thing over and over again expecting a different outcome. Part of the process of transformation is recognising that everything we do in life is a choice, that we have free-will. An addiction denies free-will, this is why I don't like the word, I know that in the past I have chosen to go without PMO for months at a time before returning, this is way past a chemical dependency limit, which is why I prefer the term neurosis. But in reality, I don't think any psychiatric term is useful. For me the "addiction" is the conflict between the choices of the brain and the choices of the soul, or the choices of the body and the choices of the soul. The soul chooses a life without PMO because it knows it hinders its enjoyment of life, whilst the body tries to choose PMO because it finds pleasure in it. That is why I say it is a neurosis, it is a split of desires between the body and the soul. It is still a choice, but there is a split in who is acting. It is almost schizophrenic, although schizophrenia usually refers to a split within the brain, rather than a mind/body split. Arriving at a consensus between the brain and the mind, the body and the soul is what an addiction is. Nothing is absolute. There are chemical dependencies that can kill you, then one's choices are much more limited, but this isn't one of them. In order for there to be a consensus between brain and mind, one has to form a better relationship between the two. This is why learning to form and foster relationships is one of the key planks to succeeding. To return to my study, it does not have to be done, I can choose to do it or not, but I question my motivation. And by questioning my motivation, I have found that I choose not to do it. I think questioning motivation is an example of trying to apply logic to one's self. Motivations are assumptions I think, they have no logical basis, they are fundamentally choices. Logic cannot question assumptions, other than showing that they are always a choice. Logic cannot provide assumptions. One has to start with assumptions, axioms, in order to apply logic. If I am not motivated, it is because one or more of my assumptions about my life are leading me to choose not to study. But my assumptions are a choice. As I said, applying logic to oneself becomes self-referential. I will choose to do my study today before 13:00. That is all I can say. Hopefully I will not change my mind. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 04, 2019, 12:01:16 PM
So in some ways I wish I had never done T'ai Ji Chuan as it has messed up the way I relate physically to people. T'ai Ji Chuan is a soft martial art, thus it confuses softness with martial skills. In truth I was always messed up with how I related physically to people, I didn't like people touching me, but I loved touching other people like my brother or my parents, giving them hugs etc. I have just been reading the latest section of the book on intimacy by Osho that I have where he is saying that one needs to be vulnerable in a soft way, not in a hard way. He quotes Lao Tzu, and in some ways it is the same principles as T'ai Ji Chuan, but in reality it is the opposite, T'ai Ji Chuan is about being invincible in a soft way, whereas Osho is talking about being vulnerable in a soft way. I have always had a great fear of being vulnerable physically, and being vulnerable physically in a forward way has been very difficult for me. Whenever I try and be forward physically, I feel stiff, rigid, hard, and it is not good, I don't get a good reaction. To be forward physically in a vulnerable way is what I have to try and do, that is the soft way to be forward and vulnerable. But when I try to be soft, I try to be invincible, not vulnerable, and so it becomes a fight, a soft fight, true, but still a relationship in which there is opposition. Soft fighting can be just as damaging as hard fighting if not more so, try living with a passive aggressive for example. To put this into practice I will have to take a risk, to be vulnerable, and I am afraid of that. I will have to trust the other person, trust the lady I am with, but I still fear attachment as well. My relationship is kind of on hold at the moment, although she phoned me at the beginning of the week to ask if I wanted to meet up this weekend. I want to, but a part of me doesn't, and it is not because of her, it is all because of me, all because I feel so uncomfortable with myself for reacting in the wrong way the whole time, and cannot seem to jump out of it. She is very vulnerable herself, and so I will have to be even more vulnerable than her in order to make her feel comfortable with my forward advances. I just don't know if I can do it. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on April 04, 2019, 01:36:15 PM
Georgos, it's not a vulnerability competition! It's not even a vulnerability comparison. The vulnerability is not controllable - it can't be modulated to match a given person. You bring whatever vulnerability you have to the situation, and it's the product of a person's anxiety, openness, desire to connect, previous experience - a whole bunch of things really. But you shouldn't be trying to aim for a specific level of vulnerability because that is a contrivance that will not come across as genuine. It's better to focus on connection and what you desire in the other person. Try to to connect with, and move towards, that which you find attractive in this girl. By doing that you will feel interested, she will feel appreciated. Vulnerability will take care of itself provided both parties don't represent an undue  danger to each other. Now, the big question is whether you can maintain your focus on her as a person, rather than as a representation of your anxieties. What do you honestly desire with this girl? If you can't answer that, you can't work towards it.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 05, 2019, 09:08:47 AM
Thanks Malando, just talking about what I desire in a relationship has been a trigger for me. Do I want sexual pleasure? Is sexual pleasure my primary motivation? If so, isn't it no better to PMO than to engage with a real woman purely for sexual pleasure? I would like a family some day, but I know I am far off being able to manage one at the moment. I would like companionship, love. Questioning what I desire in this girl is a trigger. I don't really know. I know that we are quite intellectually compatible. I know that she is interested in me which helps me to find validation, though I also know that one should really seek self-validation than rely on validation from others. I know that the fact that she is there for me gives me a sense of companionship. But I am still all messed up about physicality and pleasure. It has been easier to run away back to P than to face this issue head on. I don't think I'll see the girl this weekend, I haven't replied, and I'm broke anyhow, and though she often offers to pay, I don't like it, and besides she has expensive tastes. I remind myself to choose a life without searching for P. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 05, 2019, 05:30:56 PM
Malando, I've been thinking, your advice is good, and I always appreciate it, but you seem to think that the best way is to just let things happen naturally as if there is some magical natural way towards love that is universal. I don't know how you found your wife, your love for her may have come naturally, but I'm sure you still brought certain actions to your relationship that stemmed from your personality. Physical intimacy has not come naturally to me with regards to women I have dated, however much I have desired them, the only woman I've been really physically intimate with literally offered herself to me in the way only somebody who had worked as a stripper, as she had, could. It was still a difficult relationship and I'm not sure it was healthy for either of us, but there was mutual love. Learning to be physically intimate will require me to retrain myself, and that must begin with getting the wiring in my head correct, learning to act in a vulnerable and soft way yet initiate by being forward is something I have to learn to do, it has not come easy to me, and without recognising the problem I will not be able to transcend it. At first it will be awkward. I agree that everything should be natural, but there is no absolute definition of natural, taking the first step of recognising the problem will allow me to move beyond it. You are pointing out other problems with my thinking, and most of all that I over think. This is good. But to me, thinking is natural, correcting my thinking so that I act in an appropriate way is necessary. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on April 05, 2019, 07:03:11 PM
I wouldn't say I was directing you towards magical thinking, Georgos, but away from the idea of conscious control of things that I don't believe you can successfully control. Maybe you are talking about something different, like situation management - not letting certain things be either out of awareness which you feel are pivotal to managing your condition appropriately. But I was saying you should have a sharper focus around connection with the things that you find engaging about your partner and be less worried about the whole  multitude of concerns you have. Like it or not, the sexual act is largely automated - and it's designed by evolution to be that way. The more deep the thinking, the less physical it's going to be. That's fine as far as building your connection goes on the emotional level. I won't tell you how to build your connection with your girlfriend on the whole, but when it comes to how things go on the sexual level, I think it's a mistake to be flooded with thoughts when trying to experience a physical encounter. Some thoughts, sure, but not too many. If they can be reduced to an absolute minimum, I think that's vastly preferable. In a way, the actual sexual response is the "magical" bit. It relies on you not being to caught up in your head or it deflates like a leaky balloon. It's up to you to decide what you should focus on, I suppose. And I'm sorry if you feel I've been dogmatic in my advice to you. I guess I don't know what it's like to have the concerns you have in regards to intimacy. But I do know that successful intimacy relies on not being distracted by too many things. So I would say you should try to trim down the scope of your thoughts and get them down to a bare bones level and then you need to have some of your focus on her and what you find attractive about her. I accept you have different concerns than I have, but I do think that this comes down to how many worries the mind can deal with at one time.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 06, 2019, 11:59:59 AM
Thank you Malando, becoming self-conscious at the moment of intimacy has certainly been a problem for me. I have to balance the difference between consciously changing my behaviour, and not treating people, myself included, as "things" or objects. PMO teaches us to gain sexual gratification from "things", from objects, which we possess. Our relationship with objects is always one of possession or desire to possess. What I fear most, apart from being rejected, is losing my freedom. This comes from self-reflection on the issue of possession, of treating sexual relationships as relationships between "things", between the body object, rather than the body person. Treating the other person as a human being means recognising that they have free-will, that is why it takes vulnerability to be forward. One has to move forward recognising their free-will, this doesn't mean fearing the worst, which is what I usually worry about, it means giving the other person the freedom to respond to your forward movement. I am basically restating all of this for my own benefit, trying to give myself the courage to initiate some sort of sexual encounter. Analysis puts labels on things, so in a way that is also treating people as "things". As I said, I have to get the balance right between consciously changing my behaviour and not treating people as objects. Next time I see my lady friend, I will try and kiss her. I have thought this before, but either the chemistry hasn't been there or I have become self-conscious at the last second. Perhaps I will just try to hold her hand as we walk. I don't really know how to build up to a kiss. I'm probably over thinking. Being self-conscious probably makes her feel just as uncomfortable as me. It is the opposite of vulnerability, denying the other person the chance to respond by responding to yourself first. I have been guilty in doing this in conversation too, but I'm getting better at giving my date space to respond with her own feelings about me verbally. I need to learn to do this physically too, to expose my intentions without denying her freedom to respond.

On other matters, I need to get back into a routine I think, as it helps to stabilize me, but perhaps it is the other way around, when I am stable I fall into a routine. I'll set myself the challenge of reading two books by the end of the month. I've been reading pretty consistently, but my book on intimacy kind of took over as it seemed the most relevant to my current situation, however I've finished it now, so I can return to reading the books that should help me with future work. I'd also like to start doing my maths study/revision again, but I'm going to give myself a week of just reading to see how that goes. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 07, 2019, 05:43:04 AM
So I've read some of my two books this morning finishing before 11:00am. I'm going to do this every day for a week making sure I read them before 13:00. 11:00am is good. Now I need to think what I'm going to do for the rest of the day ha ha. I think the key is to set doable targets and make sure I do them well. I have a tendency to throw in extra targets once I've started to do what I set out to do, but before I've completed the initial targets. For instance it's only 11:20am and I could easily do some maths study/revision as well, I could set myself the target of doing that every day for a week on top of my reading. But this is confusing what I've initially set out to do before I've even finished it, and the likely result is that I'll fail at these targets. I still have a lot of unattainable or never ending targets based on ideals. I want to master my maths undergraduate, something that is impossible, there is always more to learn or do. Setting up these unobtainable ideals to aim towards actually condemns me to both failure and frustration. What I am currently trying to do with regards to my maths undergraduate is memorise, or at least become familiar with, all the theorems, definitions and examples of my maths undergraduate. I am already capable of reading maths, and to some extent thinking about it, having done it for so many years, but I want to have it at my finger tips. Such study is usually done for some kind of exam or test, marking the end point, I don't have any exam or test, so there is no real end point, just some mythical idea of having "mastered" the material. I need to become accepting of my imperfection with regards to the material, set bounded targets that are doable, and not believe that at the end of them I need to have achieved perfection. Often my driving force for study has come immediately after PMO when I have felt the need for a fresh start and to strive for something better to make up for my shame, but such striving for perfection is bound to fail, and then I would return to PMO again. Accepting the imperfectness of what I do is part of the process of achieving things. But accepting doesn't mean condoning. There is an article about the difference between accepting and condoning with regards to addiction here: https://www.addiction.com/expert-blogs/the-big-myth-about-self-acceptance-in-recovery/

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 08, 2019, 08:26:17 AM
So day two of reading my two books complete, read them by 12:30pm, before 13:00, so all good. I remind myself to choose a life without searching for P. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 09, 2019, 04:56:40 AM
So day three of reading my two books complete, read them by 10:50am, well before 13:00, so all good. I have a date with the lady I have been seeing on Friday. I will try to initiate some kind of physical interaction, hold her hand, kiss with her. It all sounds too pre-planned, cold, logical. Perhaps what I should say is that I will try not to be so self-conscious and self-inhibiting, when I feel the urge to become physically intimate, which has happened in the past. There have definitely been times when I have thought, she wants me to kiss her, or to hold her hand, etc., but with that thought, self-doubt has arisen, and then the suppression of instinct by the mind has led to me feeling very uncomfortable. Anyway, we are going for a meal in a restaurant, which we have done many times before, and I've always enjoyed it. So Friday is my date, tomorrow is day four of my reading and still no PMO. I remind myself to choose a life without P. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on April 09, 2019, 06:35:03 AM
Best of luck, Georgos. Hope it goes well - try to focus on having a good time and concentrate on what things you like about her. Everything else is noise.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 09, 2019, 08:21:13 AM
Thanks Malando, I'll try.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 09, 2019, 11:15:45 AM
So I am reading a book about self-respect hoping that it will provide me with direction and impetus towards that goal. The number one statement is to accept the unchanging self within. This is an important part of changing oneself, recognising that there will be a part of oneself that stays the same, separating the behaviour of the changing self from the unchanging self. Only when we submit to the unchanging self can we change. Only when we submit to the unchanging self can we be at peace. By trying to change ourselves without recognising that there is a part of ourselves that remains unchanged, we are denying our own existence. Separating the changing aspect of ourselves from the unchanging part, then bringing that changing part into submission, is the key to changing our behaviour. Only when the unchanging part is recognised can you begin to make a choice. Once it is recognised, you can choose to free yourself from any addiction. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 09, 2019, 01:15:47 PM
So I don't know why I am so unattractive and the flipside is that when I do attract I feel threatened because I feel like I am attracting someone or somebody who wants something from me. I think a lot of this has to do with PMO addiction, and the selfishness of the PMO act of pleasure seeking, seeking pleasure from something to which you have to give nothing. Perhaps at school I was always asking, begging, for friendship and the like. I also don't know why I compete with women to be the most attractive rather than with men which makes the woman feel that you are the one who is attractive, a form of indirect competition which is the natural relationship between heterosexual men and women. I am stuck on this issue of comparing oneself to others, one can compare actions, behaviours, but one cannot compare that which is still, the inner I am. Either you are separate or together. Competition is interaction. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 10, 2019, 07:52:39 AM
So day four of reading my two books complete, read them just before 13:00, so still on target. I've been also reading up a little on the science of self-discipline. The first thing to note is that there are two parts of the brain that compete for rewards, the emotional part of the brain that competes for instant gratification, and the abstract reasoning part of the brain that competes for long term rewards. The balance in activity between these two parts of the brain emerges very young, if not from birth, however they can be retrained. I don't know what this information has to do with leading a life of love. However I thought it was interesting. Dopamine affects the emotional part of the brain, so there is a connection between PMO addiction, instant gratification and emotional response. I would have thought delaying instant gratification, such as by counting days free of PMO, one would develop the abstract reasoning part of one's brain. However this is not the main motivation for most, rather it is to develop correct, or better emotional responses to people. I'm still reading up on all of this. Reward is only one of the factors in self-discipline. I haven't got to the others yet. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 11, 2019, 03:45:46 AM
So day five of reading my two books complete, read them by 9:40am, well before 13:00, so all good. My date is tomorrow. Not really thinking about it. Have to tidy my room. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 12, 2019, 04:34:49 AM
So day six of reading my two books complete, read them by 10:25am, well before 13:00, so all good. One more day to go. Next week I'm going to do a week of visualisation meditation from a CD every morning before 13:00. I think breaking up discipline into weeks, doing different things each week to keep me interested, is the way to go. Ideally I'd like to stay focussed on one thing for more than a week, but I've realised that subscribing to ideals as motivation only promotes change, promoting stability requires setting imperfect finite targets that are realisable. A lot of my study targets in the past have been based on the idea that I need to master something first before I can apply it, which is an ideal that only condemns. Practice is how one masters things, and that means going ahead and applying them as best you can within the real circumstances regardless of how perfect one can perform. One learns by doing. Anyway, next week, as I said, I'm going to do a week of visualisation meditation every morning. Tomorrow, assuming I read my two books, I will give myself a reward. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 13, 2019, 05:00:20 AM
So I guess you guys all want to know how my date went. I've kind of concluded I'm not really attracted to her. I didn't kiss her or hold her hand. I did sort of want to, but several times throughout the date, I wanted to be somewhere else. We're still friends. It's ok, but I think I really need to start looking for someone else. I think much of my motivation to keep seeing her was simply based on the fact that she was the only lady I knew who was interested. Anyway, it is was it is.

I've completed my seven days of reading my two books, by 10:44am. I mangaged to do it everyday before 13:00 which is really good. Getting into the habit of doing things by a set time is something that I've wanted to achieve for a long time. So I will be giving myself a little reward today.

Tomorrow I'm going to start doing my visualisation meditation from a CD every day for a week. Again I'm going to try and get it done by 13:00. It kind of feels like I want to take a break of a day or so in which I schedule nothing. I don't know why. At the moment I'm scheduling such little amounts of time in which I have to do things, but it seems like the very act of scheduling, saying that I have to do something, disturbs my feeling of just going with the flow, in reality drifting. In other words it's not so much the doing things as the thought that I have to do something that bothers me. Anyway, I'm not going to take a break, just switch activities from reading to meditation, to mix it up a bit, and hopefully everything will go smoothly. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on April 13, 2019, 01:44:24 PM
Sorry to hear you aren't feeling it, Georgos. But now that you're sure, you have to let her go so she can find somebody who is into her.  It's the right thing to do. Hopefully the next girl you date will be more attractive to you and you will not spend so long in paralysis by analysis. I think you have learned some things from this experience so it wasn't a waste of time.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 14, 2019, 04:08:22 AM
Thank you Malando. So I did my guided visualisation meditation from a CD this morning by 10:06am, before 13:00, so all good. Just have to make sure I do it every day for a week. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 15, 2019, 03:23:25 AM
So I did day two of my guided visualisation meditation from a CD this morning by 9:20am, well before 13:00, so all good. Just have to make sure I do it every day for a week. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 16, 2019, 04:46:56 AM
So I did day three of my guided visualisation meditation from a CD this morning by 10:42am, before 13:00, so all good. Bit later today as I got up later. Was a bit disturbed in the night and I think this might have affected my practice. I had more trouble visualising the colours that the meditation asks me to today and was more distracted. But that is what practice is for. Just have to make sure that I continue doing the meditation every day for the rest of the week. Once again I remind myself to choose a life without searching for P. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 17, 2019, 04:49:12 AM
So I day four of my guided visualisation meditation from a CD complete. I did it this morning by 10:46am, before 13:00, so all good. Had an itch under my knee at the beginning which was a bit annoying. Visualised the colours better than yesterday, though still not as good as the first two days. Just have to make sure I do the meditation every day until the end of the week. Then I'll give myself a reward. I remind myself once again to choose a life without searching for P. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 18, 2019, 03:44:15 AM
So day five of my guided visualisation meditation from a CD complete. I did it this morning by 9:36am, well before 13:00, so all good. Still struggling to visualise the colours, the rose white from my heart has kept coming out dark or blackish, don't know why that is. I'm not entirely sure about the significance of the colours, they are different from the standard colours used for the chakras in most forms of Yoga taught in the West, but this is the tradition that I am studying in, and I think the main thing is to just be able to visualise what they say for the time being, without trying to analyse the significance. Only two more days to go. Then I'll give myself a reward. Next week I'm going to try and do a couple of sessions of maths revision every day before 13:00 for a week. I remind myself once again to choose a life without searching for P. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 18, 2019, 06:33:25 PM
So still no PMO. One can choose to live without it if one is honest with oneself. I have searched for P a couple of times after six and a half months of abstinence. Thus I know I can choose to live without searching for P as well. I don't know whether there is any real difference to calling it an addiction or a compulsion, but what I do know is that whenever I've opened up the old pathways it has been very hard not to fall back into the old behaviour. I'm making so much progress. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 18, 2019, 07:26:10 PM
So I've been thinking about something I read which struck me as quite insightful, if you want to remove the air from a jug, fill it with water, it is much harder to remove the air first. This is one of the main reasons I am trying to build up constructive habits to replace the old pathways, to fill the jug so that the stale air of P leaves. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 19, 2019, 05:36:23 AM
So forgiving yourself is not the same as self-justification. So long as you are at war with yourself you cannot win. Osho explains: "If my right hand and left hand start fighting, do you think any hand can win? I can manage sometimes to let the right hand feel good as the winner, and sometimes to change the situation and let the left hand feel it is the winner. But neither can be really the winner because they are both my hands." Forgiveness is like this, it is to cease to prolong the past, cease to accuse, accept what has been done, and in truth this is the only thing you can do if you don't want to perpetuate things, because the past cannot be changed, cannot be undone. By continuing to fight the past, you can only cause the past to manifest in the present again, only perpetuate the behaviour. It is a war you cannot win, because the past is fixed. This is why forgiving, ceasing to fight with yourself, ceasing to fight with the past, is the first step towards change. It is not self-justification which is perpetuating the past in the opposite sense, siding with the past. It is non-violence. Discipline is still required. Discipline to make choices and stick to them, accepting the past and choosing the new behaviour in the present, substituting one behaviour for another. Today is the sixth day of my week of meditation. It is 11:33. I got up quite a bit later today. I will do my meditation now and then there will be only one day left before the next week. At the end of the week I will give myself a reward. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 20, 2019, 06:46:29 AM
So still no PMO. I've completed a week of doing my guided meditation from a CD every morning before 13:00. Today I will give myself a reward of a slice of cake.

Thinking about wanting to start a family. Realistically I only have a few years left to find the right woman.

I have been so messed up by PMO abuse with regards to what I'm looking for.

I think to make myself eligible I need to improve my sitituation a lot.

As of tomorrow I'm going to do a week of not smoking until after I've had my morning coffee in the cafe every day and also two fifteen minute sessions of maths revision.

I'm going to take a break from guided meditation for a week.

I will stop smoking this year.

I have found it hard in the past to resist smoking first thing in the morning so this will be a real challenge.

I can do it, I've done it before.

It will only be for a week.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Pete McVries on April 20, 2019, 08:44:52 AM
How many cigs do you smoke per day? I've smoked several times in my life and everytime I really put my mind to stopping smoking, I found it incredibly easy. I had few rough days but then it was really ok with little to no cravings. But people are different individuals, so it might be different for you. Anyways, best of luck, it can be done!

About starting a family, you're a man so you have quite a few years left ;). But maybe start dating or looking for dates more actively? Perhaps that would be a good first step.

Good luck!
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 20, 2019, 03:34:57 PM
Thank you Pete for your kind words. I've PMOd once in the last ten months and not since this time last month, so progress continues. Last year I managed to stay sane, without psychotic relapse, for six months which is about my record. Now I want to stay sane for at least a year. One of the things that keeps me sane is to stop believing the fantasy narrative of my life that I used to tell myself. I need to keep doing this.

I will give up smoking this year. I took up smoking initially as a result of anxiety caused by PMO. I don't know the biochemistry of smoking. I need to look it up. Chain smoking, as I have done for the past twenty years or so will have to come to an end.

Maths continues to entertain me and provide me with insights into the world. I have to give up unreasonable expectations about it though. There is a quote from Jiddu Krishnamurti: "Freedom from the desire for an answer is essential to the understanding of a problem". I still need to take this on board.

I'm looking forward to another successful week after which I will give myself another reward of a slice of cake.

Thank you.





Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 21, 2019, 06:29:32 AM
So day one of not smoking before my morning coffee complete and also completed my two sessions of maths revision by 12:03pm, before 13:00, so all good. Taking it a week at a time, need to keep up the progress. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on April 21, 2019, 12:29:14 PM
Pete is right - don't obsess about your age, just get on with trying to find a decent partner. That's the main hurdle you have to jump - finding a woman who wants kids and is happy to have them with you. I didn't become a father until I turned 42. I honestly don't think it would have made any difference if I were 46. I get what you're saying, you don't want to be 50 and starting out, but you do have time. When you find the right woman, things tend to fall into place.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 26, 2019, 02:59:22 AM
So still no PMO. Have searched for P six times in the last month though. No M or O. I need to knock this on the head. I know I can do it. Six months without searching for P shows that I can put it out of my mind. There are issues with how I relate to the world that I need to work through and not give up and return to my old behaviour. It has been far easier to return to me old behaviour than to face the challenge of relating well in reality. Sexual interactions are of course one of the main types of relating that I have found difficult, but it goes deeper than this to the core of how we relate on a human level. It has been far easier to return to relating with computer images than relating with real women. It is cowardly. I simply have doubted my ability to bring joy to women and others in general. I have seen no way to do it without suffering myself. You don't have to bring joy to an image. You don't have to work at a relationship with an image. You don't have to provide for an image. I will not take the easy way out. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 26, 2019, 11:50:21 AM
So I've taken the step of contacting a sex therapist. I don't know if it will help. I need a safe space to explore and move beyond my on screen fetish. The fact that I only fetishize it on screen, and don't find it arousing off screen is part of the problem, not that I want to find it arousing off screen, I don't, but it means that my arousal is still linked at a fundamental level to images on a computer. My fetish is linked to my identity issues which in turn are linked to my psychosis. Thus, although I have not felt aroused when searching for P recently, at least not in my genital area, I have been still drawn to seek it out because, I think, the underlying issues have not gone away. In a way, porn itself is a fetish. The definition of a fetish is "a form of sexual desire in which gratification is linked to an abnormal degree to a particular object, item of clothing, part of the body, etc". I don't know if you can fetishize behaviour, if behaviour is an object, a thing, but that is also something I need to explore. Just what do I desire and what is a healthy desire? Hopefully the sex therapist will be able to help. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Pete McVries on April 27, 2019, 12:04:53 AM
Hey Georgos,

I just want to let you know that I have/had a troubling fetish (for me personally) too. It's not extreme and very normal in porn. But my whole P-sexuality resolved around it for years and it was the only thing I was watching. I thought, it would be a big problem. But since I've gotten intimate with the woman I'm dating at the moment, thoughts of the fetish haven't crossed my mind at all. Not for a single second. It's quite astounding. I don't know what fetish you have but it may not be that much of a problem if you get intimate with a woman. M and being intimate with a woman is very different. That's what I was learning the past few days. Some food for thought right there.

Take care!
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 27, 2019, 04:33:08 AM
Thanks Pete, I don't have an extreme fetish, it troubles me personally though. I'm hoping the sex therapist will help me to work through my problems and help me to achieve real sexual relations.

So I've sort of completed my seven day challenge this week. I didn't smoke before my morning coffee for four out of the seven days and managed to do my two maths sessions everyday before 13:00 for four of the seven days as well, doing the two maths sessions but finishing later, on the remaining three days, so actually did two maths sessions every day for a week in total.

I promised mysef half-way through the week, after it became aparent that I wasn't going to abstain from smoking every day before my morning coffee, that if I just managed to do that for a majority of days of the week then i would still give myself a reward, which I have managed just. Four out of seven is a majority.

I haven't been eating so well, so have been feeling a bit tired and have felt some resistance to the coming week.

The first thing that I need to do is make sure I don't search for P. I'm going to do my guided meditation from a CD every day again, not smoke before my morning coffee, and maybe do one session of maths revision every day for the week, after which I'll give myself a reward.

As I said, the first thing I need to do is make sure that I don't search for P. Once I've racked up a few weeks of that, I should be home and dry again. Even just not PMOing makes a huge difference, but I need to break the pull of P on itse own as well. I'm hoping the sex therapist will help with that.

Thank you.


Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on April 28, 2019, 02:17:09 PM
So no P today. Just need to make sure I get through the week without it. Day one of my guided meditation and one session of maths revision complete before 13:00. Feeling good. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 04, 2019, 01:52:02 PM
So over a week without P, still no PMO. I did four out of seven days not smoking before my morning coffee, five out of seven days guided meditation and five out of seven days maths revision. I still gave myself a reward for managing the majority of the days. To be honest, my mental health has taken a turn for the worse these last few days. Still no real psychotic relapse, but I have been shaken by strange thoughts and dreams. I need to pull myself together for the coming week. Will update tomorrow morning with my plan for the week to come. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 05, 2019, 03:33:36 AM
So sanity is my top priority and that goes hand in hand with not searching for P. I've only searched for P six times in the last eight months and not for over a week now. I'm trying to take things a week at a time, so no P for another week. I didn't manage a full week of the activities I had planned for last week, so this week I'm going to try again with the same plan. Hopefully I'll do better this week. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 06, 2019, 11:00:28 AM
So still no P. I've been really slipping from doing my routine every day, largely because I've introduced trying to control my smoking, which has had a knock on effect on my sanity. I still haven't done my meditation and maths for today, and it's gone 17:00. Suffered from some anxiety today. Meeting my weekly challenge is important to me. I just have to get on and do it. I will do it now. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Loving_Mary on May 08, 2019, 05:06:05 PM
So still no P. I've been really slipping from doing my routine every day, largely because I've introduced trying to control my smoking, which has had a knock on effect on my sanity. I still haven't done my meditation and maths for today, and it's gone 17:00. Suffered from some anxiety today. Meeting my weekly challenge is important to me. I just have to get on and do it. I will do it now. Thank you.

great, keep it up ;)
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 20, 2019, 03:05:34 AM
So I've been struggling to stop searching for P. I'm doing the best I've ever done, but it has been giving me a false sense of security. I've been struggling to make the final push. Part of me is waiting for the porn ban in the UK on July 15th, but I want to stop before then. I just hardly care any more. I'm not PMOing, and that gives me a feeling of success. I've given up any thoughts of ever having a girlfriend. It's like I'm not even trying to stop searching for P. I don't know what to do to kick start my abstinence. I just accept it. Without the rush of PMO and subsequent come down, I don't feel so bad. But I know it is still corrupting my sexuality. I've just got to stop. I've searched for P fourteen times in the last eight and a half months. That seems like a little relatively speaking, but it's not a very good average really, about once every eighteen days. I managed six and a half months total abstinence from September last year, my best ever. But now I've returned to searching regularly. It's terrible. I've come here looking for understanding, for moral support, but at the end of the day, only I can give up for myself. I'm starting sex therapy in just over a week's time. I'm worried that will dredge up all sorts of thoughts I've left behind. As I said, I'm not even thinking about having real sex or a girlfriend. I guess I've just got to start the counter again for the umpteenth time. At least I'm not PMOing. The final push to stop searching for P has to begin today. Feedback is welcome. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Pete McVries on May 20, 2019, 07:30:16 PM
Wow, sex therapy, that sounds great. I envy you a bit! Hopefully, it'll help you.

Regarding the porn ban: Can't you easily bypass it by connecting to a vpn/proxy? I mean, don't back the wrong horse...
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 21, 2019, 09:21:18 AM
I've become so nihilistic. I feel like nothing matters. I have given up thinking about real sex and having a girlfriend. I have been retreating into escapism and fantasy. I have been trying to better myself and don't see any tangible improvement, except giving me some structure for each day. The nihilism just says that life is the same whatever you do. All my thoughts of getting somewhere are just fantasy and escapism. They say the journey is the essence, not the destination, but so far nothing gives me the same highs and lows as giving up P and MO. If I had a real sex life, then that might be an alternative, but as I said, I've given up, I just don't see how it would be possible. I just don't care any more. The recognition that all my ambitions have been fantasy and escapism has led me to just not care any more. I don't know what to do, it's like I'd rather lead the life I know of constantly trying to give up P with all its highs and lows than lead a real productive life. Quitting for good means starting a new life doing something else. So far, I haven't managed to make that transition.

Quote from: Pete McVries
Wow, sex therapy, that sounds great. I envy you a bit! Hopefully, it'll help you.
Don't get the wrong end of the stick, Pete, it's just talking therapy with someone who specializes in talking about sexual issues.
Quote from: Pete McVries
Regarding the porn ban: Can't you easily bypass it by connecting to a vpn/proxy? I mean, don't back the wrong horse...
I think it will help me, if you can get round it, I don't want to know. Part of the problem for me is the ease at which I just have to type a few words and click, I don't think I'd go to the bother of circumnavigating a ban, I'm disciplined enough.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 21, 2019, 04:55:25 PM
So I had a near miss with PMO today, I ended up edging. Since two months ago, when I relapsed for the first time in nine months, I have searched for P fifteen times. That's about once every four days. However, I hadn't searched for P for six and a half months prior to that. I'm worried I might be on a slow descent back to my old ways. I think I've underestimated how much better I'm feeling without PMO and how much better I was feeling without P as well. It has been easy to convince myself that P without PMO is not that bad, because there is not the same rush and then come down that comes from MOing on top of searching. The relapse happened after I was coming out of a bad couple of months of psychosis. This has been a pattern in the past. I don't know where I'm going to find the strength to give up P now. I'm trying to give up smoking, slowly by managing it, and that has been sapping all my energy for discipline. Plus I've been trying to do voluntary study every day, which has had a similar effect. Succeeding at these things has been giving me positive feelings that have allowed me to slip into not feeling so bad about not abstaining from P. Most days I am succeeding at the tasks I have set myself, except abstaining from P, and I have been finding it hard to right myself. They say that it is easiest to only change one thing at a time, and that way you are more likely to succeed. I am trying to change multiple things, thus dispersing my focus. The tasks for each day, including managing smoking, require focus for only a few minutes at a time, whereas abstaining from P requires focus for the entire day. I don't want to stop my tasks. The progress I am making is making me happy. But I don't want to still be searching for P either. I really don't know what the solution is. So far I have hardly been able to discipline myself at all with regards to P these last two months. I can only try again. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 22, 2019, 05:16:10 AM
So today is day one of not searching for P. I don't know what to write. I've abstained so many times before, the best being six and a half months, only recently. I am hoping this time it will be for good. At the end of the day there is still everything else to deal with. I have spent so much time fantasizing about my life. Completing small tasks each day gives me satisfaction, but it is still an effort to actually do them. Staying sane is a priority. As I said, I don't really know what to write. Just want to publicly state my commitment once again to abstaining from searching from P. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: OrangeSpider on May 22, 2019, 09:13:49 AM
As we have heard many times, this statement you said right here: "Just want to publicly state my commitment once again to abstaining from searching from P.", thats the first step of a 10k mile journey.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 22, 2019, 11:18:57 AM
Quote from: OrangeSpider
As we have heard many times, this statement you said right here: "Just want to publicly state my commitment once again to abstaining from searching from P.", thats the first step of a 10k mile journey.
Not sure if you're being sarcastic, OrangeSpider, but I'll take it in good faith, so thank you for your comment.

I know I've been posting for a long time, I've been trying to give up for even longer, so I hope my journal doesn't dishearten anyone. I have suffered from paranoid schizophrenia on and off on top of my addiction, so my case is perhaps harder though I don't want to compare or judge anyone else. I'm sure it doesn't have to take so long to give up. However the fact remains that I've done better than I've ever done before since joining this forum, and that is a big plus. Without wanting to be complacent, I'm not PMOing anymore, so the next challenge is to give up searching for P, something that I did for six and a half months, my best ever, in the last year. I'm over half-way through the first day. I know I can do it if I put my mind to it. I haven't done all my tasks for today yet. Part of me is wondering whether I should put them on hold until I've got back into the mode of P abstinence. I'm probably just making excuses, but trying to manage multiple lifestyle changes at once is that much harder. The real killer is the smoking, which I am succeeding at managing, because changing that has really disrupted the way I feel. I think I will try and do the remaining tasks for the day. There are still a few hours left. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Pete McVries on May 22, 2019, 11:37:26 AM
When you are searching for P, are you simply doing a google search without acting out or are you watching videos/pictures eventually for a few minutes?
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 22, 2019, 12:05:12 PM
I have been doing a Google image search and on rare occasions briefly visiting the sites, usually the image search is enough. I don't really get aroused, don't get an erection or anything or even any real feeling down there. I don't know why I do it, I think it is a form of neuroticism or OCD as I'm not acting out in the sense of M.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: OrangeSpider on May 23, 2019, 08:22:02 AM
Quote
Not sure if you're being sarcastic, OrangeSpider, but I'll take it in good faith, so thank you for your comment.

By no means was this my intention, I really just wanted to encourage you with that quote that says that a long journey starts by giving the first step. Thats where both of us are. I also have failed uncountable times and here I am once again giving the first step, because we just cant give up, we don't have another option. Just wanted to cheer you up as you start over again; cheering you up is a way of cheering myself up at day 3.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 24, 2019, 03:25:57 AM
Thank you OrangeSpider for your words of encouragement. Today is day three. Once again I don't really know what to write other than to restate my commitment to abstaining from P. I know I can do it. It's just the question of finality. I need to make the choice to abstain for good, like I've done with PMO. My therapy starts next week. Hopefully I can begin to explore how I can make the transition to healthy sexual relationships then. Knowing things in theory is not the same as actually putting things into practice. Will update in a couple of days time. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on May 24, 2019, 05:20:25 AM
Hi Georgos, I have a question for you: how badly do you actually desire the following?:
(a) a sexual interaction with a woman,
(b) a relationship with a woman,
(c) a family with a woman.

See if you can rank them out of a maximum of 10 points. I'd be interested to understand where your motivations are. Perhaps there are proverbial carts being placed before horses which is making the process less logical and more convoluted. As much as people like to mystify the process of finding "the one", there are logical steps that can be taken to direct one's life towards specific goals.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: OrangeSpider on May 24, 2019, 08:30:04 AM
Quote
Once again I don't really know what to write other than to restate my commitment to abstaining from P. I know I can do it.
I think that is gold right now. Thats where I am focusing and that is where I think you should focus as well as we start again the journey.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 25, 2019, 02:13:33 AM
Thanks OrangeSpider, wishing you all the best as well.

Quote from: malando
Hi Georgos, I have a question for you: how badly do you actually desire the following?:
(a) a sexual interaction with a woman,
(b) a relationship with a woman,
(c) a family with a woman.

See if you can rank them out of a maximum of 10 points. I'd be interested to understand where your motivations are. Perhaps there are proverbial carts being placed before horses which is making the process less logical and more convoluted. As much as people like to mystify the process of finding "the one", there are logical steps that can be taken to direct one's life towards specific goals.

I think ranking a, b, and c would be around 5, 6, and 7 respectively. In the past it would have been the other way around, 10 for a, 9 for b and maybe 5 for c. Putting a number on things is a bit arbitrary, at present I'm quite ambivalent. I'm quite happy just plodding along with my small amount of study each day, keeping to myself and my immediate family. I don't feel ready for a relationship, I'm not really motivated by sex, and though I'd like a family, I don't think I am in any position to cope with the responsibility at the moment. I've basically given up. If I meet somebody and hit it off then all to the good, but I'm not actually looking. My main aim is to put my life in order, stay sane, and hopefully get out of being institutionalized. If I can do that then maybe the rest will follow. Anyway, today is day four. Progress continues. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 26, 2019, 04:18:06 AM
So today is day five. Just wanted to mark the day and my continuing commitment to not searching for P. Thank you to everyone who takes time to comment here, it is much appreciated. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 28, 2019, 05:56:34 AM
So today is day seven, still no P. My therapy starts tomorrow and I need to think about what I'm going to bring up. What do I want to achieve? I guess the major thing that I want to achieve is my complete mental block with being physically intimate with women, or rather with initiating physical intimacy. However I don't really know where to begin with this. I don't really want to talk about the fetish I developed with regards to online porn. I just want to leave that in the past to be forgotten. I don't really want to talk about identity politics which so dominated most of my life, and is related to the fetish. Again I just want to forget about this. Indeed I don't think it has been helpful to link analysis of how identity politics affected me to my inability to initiate physical intimacy, quite the opposite, doing that has just intensified the mental block. So I don't know where to begin at all with the therapy. I guess I'll just have to go along and see what comes up. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Pete McVries on May 28, 2019, 07:08:28 AM
Having had therapy several times in my life, I came to the conclusion that the most important thing is to be honest. That doesn't necessarily mean that you have to tell "everything" and "every detail" but don't conceal topics if you feel uneasy about them.

Therapy is always a process and in my mind it is also very important that you and your therapist manage to establish a trustful connection. Therefore, I hope that it all works out for you and you manage to make some breakthroughs!
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: OrangeSpider on May 28, 2019, 08:08:24 AM
Congrats on day 7. I would say about therapy, dont worry about tomorrow. The questions will lead out of you what needs to come out.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on May 30, 2019, 06:06:39 AM
Thank you Pete and OrangeSpider. Today is day nine, still no P Therapy went well, although it was just really an introduction exploring what the process would actually entail. Just want to restate my commitment to abstaining from P. Will update in another couple of days. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 01, 2019, 01:30:17 PM
So today is day 11. My week's challenge starts tomorrow and I've got to take it day by day. Slowly I am giving up smoking. Need to make sure I do my meditation every day. I'll restate here my commitment to abstaining from P. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 03, 2019, 07:11:06 AM
So today is day 13, still no P. I need to remind myself of how much better I feel without it and not take that feeling for granted. It gets a bit repetitive restating my commitment each time, I've found repeating statements can lead to complacency as they loose their initial meaning, but there's only so many ways I can say it. I am only on day 13 after all, I have done six and a half months before. Hopefully once I get up to July 15th when the porn ban kicks in, I will have left this nightmare behind for good. I don't think I'll try and get around it. In fact I don't even want to test it. With or without the porn ban, I'm going to abstain from searching for P. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 05, 2019, 01:57:54 AM
So today is day 15 without P. I'm coming up to a year almost completely PMO free except for a couple of minor slips, eleven and a half months so far. This has been the best year ever with regards to abstinence. I've searched for P fifteen times in the past nine months, which is only an average of once every eighteen days. I think I might have even done better in the past over the course of a year, but not with regards to PMO. Twenty days seems like a long time when you start, but once you get there it doesn't seem like long at all, compared to a lifetime, and I'm only on day fifteen at the moment. I'm really convinced the porn ban will help me, I just hope it works. However, I don't even want to try and test it when it kicks in, and I want to have given up completely before then for my own dignity. I don't need P, all it does is bring me shame and insecurity and warp my sense of what real sexual relationships involve. I've been thinking a bit more recently about whether I want a real relationship at the moment. I don't really know what I want from life, in some ways I'm quite happy just passing the time on my own. However I think that is a good place to be. I've been sane for about two and a half months now. Last year I managed six months which is about my record. I'm trying to keep away from triggers and occupy myself with small tasks to give me satisfaction each day. Things are generally good at the moment, but as I said, it's only day fifteen. Will update in another couple of days. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 07, 2019, 12:53:37 AM
So today is day 17. Nothing much to report, just want to mark the day clean. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on June 15, 2019, 09:32:20 AM
So in six days I will have done the best year I have ever done with regards to PMO. It is already the best year in fact. But I am looking at this all the wrong way. I have a tendency to sabotage targets just before I meet them as if to prove to myself that they are not really important in the scheme of things. But after all these years I shouldn't be thinking in terms of targets, I should simply choose to never repeat the old habits again. I talked myself into making this choice before and managed nine straight months without PMO. At the time I wasn't thinking about targets, I had simply chose to stop. I have to make that choice again. One thing that occurs to me is that we are hardwired to play games of negotiating sexual pleasure. Life would be impossible if we experienced sexual pleasure twenty-four seven, and relationships involve holding back and testing loyalty. I think there is a danger of falling into the trap of such a relationship with P which leads to the endless cycles of abstaining and returning that characterize chronic relapsers like myself. We set targets, negotiate with ourselves, hold back, then give in, all as part of some warped sexual relationship between us and the computer. It is as if we are testing loyalty somehow, even as we know the relationship causes us harm. We have to break the relationship once and for all, and never go back. Testing how long we can abstain plays into the hardwiring of how we deal with relationships, real or otherwise. We need to choose to break the relationship, to cast it aside, and never look back. It is not a question of how many days, months or even years that we can go without, but of simply choosing to no longer be in a relationship sexually between ourselves and the computer. At the beginning, proving to oneself that one can make targets of abstention that one sets, helps to establish that one can live without the relationship, but at the end of the day, once that is done, one has to cut free of the relationship altogether, by making the choice. Everyone who has done even a month or maybe less, knows that we can live without P. Yet we still come back to it. We still desire the relationship on some level. We have to make the choice to break with the relationship once and for all. In some twisted sense, writing here can also become part of the relationship, reinforcing our relationship with the computer, though it is a much better substitute for P. But if we continue to use P and write here all the time, we are just building the bond. How many times have we said we will stop, only to return and then write here analysing our mistakes. I'm not saying this site doesn't help, it does, I personally have done much better at abstaining since joining, much better, but there has to come a point where we say it is over. I have chosen not to actively search for P, not for some period of time, but ever again, and that is final. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Pete McVries on July 18, 2019, 04:31:34 PM
Georgos, how are you doing?
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on August 18, 2019, 12:22:49 PM
So it's been fourteen months now with only four PMOs in that time. But I have kept returning to searching for P even though I managed six and a half months without it at the beginning of the year. I can't seem to shake the urge to search the moment search terms enter my mind. Thinking about this, I want to try something, separating the search terms from the images. I want to try just doing searches for text results and not clicking on any of the links. I'm going to try this for two months and then try and stop completely again. I'm not MOing. I don't want to be searching for P when I'm forty. I don't want to be looking at pornographic images, however mindful I am and even without MO. I want to be free of P for ever. I have to learn to be mindful with words as well as images, so that words don't lead to images, just as images don't lead to MO. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 07, 2019, 01:32:37 PM
So I know I can abstain without any problem. Life is better when I abstain. Today I had a relapse of searching for porn, and it came from a reminder of the past. I was anxious about the wife of a friend of mine possibly knowing that I had used porn in the past. That anxiety caused me to relapse to prove to myself that it isn't that bad a thing. The anxiety over what I have done has yet to heal. It gives me confidence saying that I don't use it now, but it doesn't undo the past. I still don't have a girlfriend. I'm almost forty and have only ever been in a sexual relationship for six months, only having sex twice in that time. I still feel abnormal when it comes to sex. Simply not thinking about it and abstaining from porn and MO allows me to feel normal in everyday life, but not about sex. I do need therapy. My financial situation doesn't allow me to pursue it properly at the moment. It's crazy, I think something like 80% of U.S. males regularly view porn, some of them have anxiety, I don't know how many, but they can't all be as paranoid as me, otherwise the country would collapse. It is normal, yet it doesn't feel normal to me, no matter how many times I tell myself that almost every male does it. I am still deeply ashamed of my porn use, ashamed of even viewing porn, scared of being judged. I can forgive myself, but I can't shake the fear of being judged and not forgiven by others. I think I have kept returning to searching for porn, even though I no longer MO or PMO, because I'm seeking to reassure myself that it is alright, that it was alright. It is like digging yourself deeper into a hole in an effort to get out of an awkward situation. I barely looked at porn today. None of it turned me on. It was simply the action of repeating something I've done in the past to comfort me into feeling that it was ok. If I can never do it again, why did I do it in the first place? I have a neurosis with regards to porn, it is not simply an addiction. I haven't MOd for three months now. I have PMOd four times over the last fourteen and a half months. Abstaining is easy, one simply makes the choice to abstain and does so. The addictive nature of porn is a problem, but for me the neurosis is worse now. I don't suffer withdrawals anymore from not searching for porn or MOing. Quite the opposite, I feel better, more at ease with myself. The problem is my neurosis about being judged. As I said, I need therapy. I haven't tried disciplining myself to do text searches for porn whilst abstaining on clicking on the links as I said I would do in my last post. For the last twenty days I've simply abstained. As I said, it is easy. I have got caught back in the cycle of addiction after relapsing before, but I can easily go fifteen, twenty, thirty, days in between. Returning to it after that has nothing to do with chemical imbalances caused by addiction but rather chemical imbalances caused by neurosis. I'm not saying it's not addictive. It is. But my problem with it goes beyond addiction into the realms of other mental health problems. Perhaps that is true of all addicts. Addiction is a mental health problem, and mental health problems defy neat classification. At any rate, I am going to try and discipline myself with the text searches starting tomorrow. I don't know if that is really a good idea, but that is what I want to do now. I want to be able to deal with the language of porn without it leading to actually viewing it. That way, I reason, thoughts about it won't lead me to relapse. However, today it was anxiety over the past, and I don't know what I can do about that. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 07, 2019, 02:03:33 PM
So I'm going to add something. I think anxiety really is dealt with by confession and forgiveness, but it is not as easy as that. The original point of confession in Christianity was to be forgiven so that the thoughts, or logismoi, to use the Greek term, you were attached to were dissolved. I am not a Christian but I see the value in this practice. However, it is clear from the history of the Church that the ritual of confession began to get abused, with priests and the Church hierarchy using it as a method of wielding power over others, indeed in so many cases they didn't do what they were supposed to do which is forgive and absolve the person, but actually persecuted them. The Spanish Inquisition, for example, were not known for their forgiveness. This is down to lines in scripture saying that blasphemy, whatever that is, is punishable by death. I am not trying to single Christianity out or have a go at the Church per se, there are plenty of examples of monks and other highly respected Christians forgiving blasphemers and even murderers, so it is not all one way with regards to the practice of confession, but forced confession is something different again. And this is my point, one cannot go through life confessing to everyone when one has the slightest anxiety, or maybe one can. Today, my anxiety came about from suspecting someone knew my past, and was concerned about it, and me keeping silent in the hope that I was wrong. I still don't know whether she knew or not, all I know is that I was paranoid she was concerned about it, if she did know, that is. Forgiving myself is the most powerful thing, if I had truly forgiven myself, then I wouldn't have worried about what she thought. As I have pointed out before, forgiveness is not the same as condoning something. Forgiveness is not a licence to do anything. Forgiveness is about things that have been done, not things that you are going to do in the future. So the only thing I can say, is that if the past still bothers me, it is because I haven't forgiven myself properly. I have not come to the point where the idea of everyone knowing about my past has been absolved. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 08, 2019, 06:35:37 AM
So I didn't mean to get all embroiled in religion yesterday, I'm certainly not religious. However there are some practices from religion that are very practical and helpful. Nobody bats an eyelid at meditation for example.

I'm going to go ahead with my text search of porn, trying to discipline myself to not click on the links, however I'm going to make it easy for me this first time by waiting till the evening, so there is not long before I go to bed.

I'm going to do a search, read the trigger words, and then try and abstain for at least ten days, before trying a similar search without clicking on any links.

I was thinking yesterday about a couple of things that I wrote. One is that along with confession, repentance is also generally required to make it effective, and the other is the idea from Alcoholic Anonymous about addicts having to accept that they cannot even have one drink. The latter idea is apparently not widely accepted by psychiatrists who tend to preach moderation, but not complete abstinence, I have been told. I don't know if that is true. At any rate, I'd like to read up a bit more about the AA approach to complete abstinence, how you come to terms with it and get yourself into that mindset, and how you relate it to relapses in a way that doesn't destroy your soul. I suppose the idea is that once you accept it fully, you don't relapse, but maybe this is the problem that many psychiatrists have with AA as it becomes a sort of lifestyle cult with people struggling to accept complete abstinence for years, very much like on here, for some, myself included.

I still don't know what I think about this. I know that everytime I relapse I feel terrible and it feeds my neurosis, on the other hand, I think that learning to accept that porn use is a mainstream activity for many, even the majority of men, is something that would help me with my psychological issues. Note, I don't suffer from ED, my reasons for stopping are purely the psychological distress that my addiction has caused me.

Conquering the addiction certainly helps with my neurosis, but conquering my neurosis requires greater psychological healing as well.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 08, 2019, 02:25:39 PM
So I just did a text search for porn without clicking on any of the links. I tried to be mindful, and I did it very consciously, not out of any urge, so it is a bit artificial.

I now have about two hours before I go to bed. I need to try and abstain for at least ten days without searching again, I think. I certainly need to abstain indefinitely from actually looking at images.

A couple of years ago I set myself the challenge of separating MO from P. I am successfully doing that having only done both together four times over the last fourteen and a half months or so.

Last year I abstained from P for 195 consecutive days, along with other shorter stints. However I still looked at P too much.

I am currently three months in without MO of any kind.

So I am succeeding.

I now want to separate trigger words in my mind from searching for images.

I have had almost six months of sanity now, and my priority remains to stay sane. Abstaining from P and MO helps me do that.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 15, 2019, 03:34:14 PM
So you cannot undo the past, only forgive and forget. Forgiveness does not require justification for the past. Everything is an experience. Forgiveness requires repentance, an acknowledgement that the past is causing you suffering. Once you have acknowledged that it is the past that is causing you suffering then you can move on to absolution and release from the attachment to the past. It is the past, it is not the now or the future, that is causing the suffering.

I still don't understand the miracle of absolution from a Christian perspective, perhaps, being a miracle, it cannot be understood, though I tend to think there are no miracles that cannot be explained somehow.

The word "porn" still triggers anxiety in me, it still connects me with the past, it still reminds me of my past porn abuse, even if it only reminds me of the feeling of anxiety. I'm not sure what to do about this, I cannot forget the word ever existed, it exists, yet somehow I can be absolved of my connections to my past through forgiveness.

As I said, forgiveness is not the same as justification. Contextualizing porn as something I and many others have experienced is one way forward, but this needs to be done without justifying it.

Openly admitting it, and continuing to admit it, is not the same as forgetting it, but again can help.

I was thinking of writing to some Orthodox monastic elders to enquire further about the ritual and miracle of forgiveness and how it works, but I don't want to get drawn into religion. Indeed, if I were to confess, my first confession would be "I don't believe in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour".

I am very open to the miraculous, the supernatural and the like, having experienced altered realities through my condition of paranoid schizophrenia, I genuinely believe anything is possible, without a consensus of explanation, but I am also very wary of such things.

The practical side of confession and forgiveness is obvious to anyone who practices it, but the miraculous side is difficult to reach without something more than just going through the motions.

I am still trying to work out how I can release my attachment to my past porn abuse when I am routinely reminded of it. As I said, I cannot forget the word "porn" or any of the other trigger words. Contextualizing without justifying and practicing mindfulness seem to be the only way forward. Saying sorry to myself for ever indulging in porn abuse is also helpful.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 16, 2019, 05:35:55 AM
So the purpose of confession in the Orthodox tradition at least, is to remove mental attachments, or logismoi, that separate you from God. The aim is to be one with God, and anything that separate oneself from God is a sin. Note that sin has no moral attachment, only a practical one of separating one from God. But this isn't my aim. My aim is to merely quit searching for porn. So going to deep into the religious ritual may not be the best way forward. Releasing attachments, sure, but aiming to be one with God is not my preoccupation. Indeed I'm not even sure I believe such an aim is possible, if indeed there is even a God.

This forum serves as a forum for confession. It also serves as a forum for journaling progress.

I have almost done a hundred days without MO as of today.

I think the problem I still have with regards to contextualizing porn is that I still feel great anxiety about admitting it verbally in conversation.

Of course, not every conversation lends itself to a conversation about porn, but to a large extent I still want to hide my shame in everyday life.

Writing about it here is a start, but far removed from talking about it with my friends and family.

I think the best thing to do is to start with talking about it with a therapist. But I can't afford a therapist at the moment.

I still believe that time will heal if I can just abstain for long enough, but as I said in my previous post, every time I am reminded of my past porn abuse I still have felt anxiety and an urge to dig deeper into the pit.

Practicing mindfulness with such reminders is the best way forward.

I still intend to do another text search after ten days are up to try and learn to become mindful when reading or thinking about trigger words.

I am doing the best I've ever done. I'm feeling better than I have done in a long time. Hopefully my progress will continue.

Thank you.


Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 17, 2019, 05:30:54 PM
So I have written before about the idea that it is easiest to stop one behaviour by replacing it with something else. The metaphor is that to empty a jug of air, it is far easier to fill it with water than to create a vacuum.

With this in mind I am seriously thinking about Christianity and replacing my addiction with it. This is not something I particularly want to do, but it is something that has occurred to me as I have thought about the act of confession and forgiveness.

One of the things that occurred to me was the need for repentance in confession in order for it to work. This was only a vague idea, as I had vaguely heard the two things spoken of in the same breath by religious people.

I googled "repentance and addiction" and all the sites were Christian ministries. They all related repentance to sin, which as I said means separation from God. I noted that there was no moral judgment, but this is not strictly speaking true for some if not the majority of Christians. To separate onself from God is morally wrong in their eyes, and stems from disobediance.

Thus already with the word repentance you have to buy into the Christian world view, and as I said I'm not sure I want to do that.

What I want is to quit porn, and I am looking for a way to do that, having failed for the last thirty odd years.

Repentance litterally means "to turn away from", and has come to mean Biblically, "to turn away from sin", which means to turn away from something that separates you from God.

I suppose you could turn away from something without acknowledging it as a sin, as a separation from God.

According to Wikipedia, Protestants don't believe in repentance they belive in something called contrition which is, again according to Wikipedia, a fear of God's wrath. This, the claim is, is because turning away from something in order to seek favour denies faith. I don't know if this is true. I assumed that the website ministries that talked about repentance and addiction were Protestant, but maybe they were Catholic. I don't know. At any rate, contrition seems even more problematic to me than repentance of sin. Just my personal opinion.

So sticking to repentance as merely turning away from something, what is the advice these Christian ministries give. One is genuine sorrow and grief over the offence itself and not just the consequences of it. Others are humility, gratitude for God's gifts, submissiveness to God and a willingness to serve others.

These are all statements couched in very Christian terms, and as I said, I'm not sure I want to become Christian in order to give up porn. Yes, I want to turn away from porn, no I'm not sure I want to turn to Jesus.

The problematic word for me remains "God" whenever it is used or implied. Either I don't know what it means, or I don't believe in it.

Theologians have argued whether you can ever truly know "God". Some have argued that you can only know "Him" by his works. I don't even believe that.

This disbelief goes against humility, submissiveness to "God" and gratitude for "God's" gifts. It goes against the claim that one cannot do anything without "God's" help or permission. It is the belief that one can achieve something on one's own, through one's own will.

I have been trying this for the last thirty odd years and not succeeded, which is what is making me seriously question whether I should be believing in the former things I currently disbelieve.

These former things transcend Christianity, they don't require a belief in Jesus, but they do require a belief in "God" or at least a higher power.

Belief in a higher power is one of the steps of the 12 step program that has been so successfully, at least that is the claim, applied to many addictions.

A recovered alchoholic I know who lives by the 12 step program says that he prays to sages, people he views as higher powers. So I don't necessarily need to accept Jesus to do this step.

I am still thinking about the idea of sorrow for the offence itself not just the consequences. This is something else I need to process.

I am doing better than I have ever done before, and I cannot deny what has worked to get me to this place. Prayer works, confession works and forgiveness works. All of these things have contributed to me abstaining for longer and longer periods. But still I have been returning.

Today is day 100 without MO.

I don't like the idea of becoming religious. Even the idea of following the 12 step program seems like a life choice I don't want to have to live by. I am still an intellectual rebel at heart, the opposite of an intellectual submissive. I can even see how arrogant my writing is, but I could say the same for all the religious evangelicals out there or anyone who preaches.

As I said, I know what has worked for me, but still I haven't quit completely.

I have barely managed thirty consecutive days without porn since March.

I want to quit, I know I feel better without it, how to get there has still been eluding me.

Thank you.






Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: jixu on September 17, 2019, 06:41:02 PM
I am not Orthodox and can't read much Koine Greek but I have really enjoyed and learned a lot about prayer, contrition, and purification from the Orthodox fathers.  I recently bought a book on prayer written by a Coptic priest that was full of insights and compelling thoughts.  I have found in my own life that working through Psalm 50 (51 in the Protestant bible) is good balm for the soul and a way to get a fresh start.

Best wishes as you journey on-stay in the battle!
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 18, 2019, 07:49:32 AM
Thank you jixu.

So I don't know if I feel sorrow for what I've done. I know that it has damaged me and caused me hurt, but I tend to view such things as just experiences with no moral judgment.

Do I need to say sorry, and who do I address my apology to?

Can I even say sorry sincerely, and will it help me to overcome my addiction?

I read one article by a Christian addict who said she was always apologizing for her "sin" as she saw her addiction to be, always repenting, and she never overcame her addiction. It was only when she recognised it as a bio-chemical sickness that she was able to overcome it.

I am interested in what works, and as the above example illustrates, repentance alone maybe doesn't work, although the person in question never stopped repenting.

Saying sorry because one believes it will release one from the past is not really sincere, I don't think. It is expecting some gain or favour. This was the argument for contrition over repentance.

It is easy to type the words "I am sorry", but it is far harder to mean them sincerely.

But I will type them, I will address them to this forum.

I am sorry.

I am sorry for the pain that my porn addiction has caused me and others.

It is a start, but I think the first thing I need to do is say sorry to myself, and mean it.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 18, 2019, 03:14:57 PM
So saying sorry today hurt and still hurts. I've realised now that I never forgave myself. What I did was suspend judgment. By ceasing to judge myself I felt better and indeed being less judgmental generally leads to a happier life. This was the answer to my prayer for mercy. However it is not the same as forgiveness.

Wikipedia defines forgiveness as follows:

Quote
Forgiveness is the intentional and voluntary process by which a victim undergoes a change in feelings and attitude regarding an offense, lets go of negative emotions such as vengefulness, forswears recompense from or punishment of the offender, however legally or morally justified it might be, and with an increased ability to wish the offender well. Forgiveness is different from condoning (failing to see the action as wrong and in need of forgiveness), excusing (not holding the offender as responsible for the action), forgetting (removing awareness of the offense from consciousness), pardoning (granted for an acknowledged offense by a representative of society, such as a judge), and reconciliation (restoration of a relationship).

The key word is "victim". By ceasing to judge I was ceasing to hold myself responsible for my actions in creating a victim out of myself and others. I was trying to excuse and forget.

Forgiveness means acknowledging the offender and the victim, which are both me, in this case, though my porn abuse affected others as well.

I am the offender and I am sorry for that.

I am sorry for my porn abuse and the pain it has caused both me and others.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 19, 2019, 03:16:17 AM
So I'm still struggling to say sorry and mean it. To admit that I was wrong to ever look at and use porn. Right and wrong are not part of my world view. Things can be better or worse, but everything is relative. Right and wrong tend to be used as absolutes, and I don't believe in absolutes. Having said that I often say sorry for things I have done when they have caused pain or inconvenienced someone. I am happy to admit my mistakes. I don't know why it is so hard to say that I am sorry for my porn abuse. Perhaps because it is thirty odd years of my life.

The first time I said sorry I felt pain. Now I just feel like an idiot. I still feel I need to repent some more. When I prayed and begged for mercy, it was as a victim. I have never really repented as an offender.

With over 80% of U.S.American males using porn regularly and all the theories of sexual liberation, I'm still not 100% convinced looking at porn is wrong. But I know it has caused pain to me and others, and that I accept as wrong to a degree.

I said in a previous post that one of the pieces of advice for repentance was to say sorry for the offence not just the consequences of the offence. I admit that causing pain, the consequences, is an offence. But the act itself still seems to me to be just an act.

In my las post, I tried to say sorry for the act itself, and as I said, I now feel like an idiot.

Offence is such a strong word. I have trouble with the idea of morally judging sin, or separation from God. In fact I have trouble with the concept of God full stop. So if it is nothing to do with sin, what is the offence? Causing pain is an offence, but the act itself need not, in my view, it is all relative. Indeed, everything we do causes pain in some sense. Thus are all acts an offence? It is this kind of reasoning that leads Catholics and other Christians into a cycle of perpetual guilt. Buddhists say that this life is a life of suffering and try to accept it in order to transcend it. Christians say that this life is a separation from God, original sin, and thus a life of suffering as well, and try to forgive each separation in order to transcend it. It is pretty much the same argument in both cases. The difference is that forgiveness still involves a judgment, where as accepting can involve no judgment. Separation from God is an offence against God, an act of disobedience, that life involves suffering is just a fact of life, with no moral judgment. I think this is why Buddhism is often seen as more attractive to many.

I am trying to forgive myself, not just suspend judgment. I think that is more powerful. But to do this I need to admit that my use of porn over the years was an offence.

Once I go down such an absolutist path, I don't know where it will end, that life in this world itself is an offence against God, original sin.

Must I say sorry for everything?

I will say sorry again for the act as well as the consequences, even if I don't fully mean it.

I am sorry.

I am sorry for looking at porn and the pain it has caused me and others.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on September 19, 2019, 12:52:14 PM
I saved myself the trouble of having to be sorry and convinced that what I did was "wrong", and just went straight to "porn was a really bad thing for me, which cost me a lot". In the end that's all I needed - a forensic analysis of how porn affected my life revealed that it had damaged me. Once you know what it cost you, how it harmed you, it's almost impossible not to regret what you did, and that leads to feeling sorry. How that plays into some Godly version of sorry/repentance doesn't really concern me, but I suspect it's an extension of the same process. Later education on what happens to victims of porn - the actors/actresses, the partners of porn addicts, fills in the rest and I'd say once you're fully educated on that, it's only a matter of time before you're convinced of the immorality of it. People who refuse to acknowledge that hidden reality are probably doomed to repeat their mistakes at some point - especially if they are playing out some sort of freedom-of-sexuality idealism-struggle in their head.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 19, 2019, 02:01:28 PM
Hi Malando, as always, thanks for your input. Have you really been clean all this time? I say that, because I have had some success, I know I can go months at a time, but in the end I have always returned at some point. I don't know if this is because of some sort of freedom-of-sexuality idealism that you mention. It's no longer a question to me of how long I can last, I believe I could last any number of days if I chose to, but quitting completely has seemed to evade me. I don't know what more I need to get straight in my head, I know it damages me, I know it damages the participants, but the highs and lows, and wallowing in self pity seem to have a hold on me like I actually want to remain an addict. Does that mean I have no morals? Does it mean that over 80% of U.S.American males have no morals? There I am wallowing again. Your advice is appreciated.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 20, 2019, 05:55:09 AM
So as I said in my last post, I believe I could go any number of days now without P or MO. Any record I set, I can break eventually. I think once you have gone a few months, you know this. This is where counting days ceases to be useful. At some point you have to commit to being recovered. Are you going to count days until you die?

Counting days is useful when you are trying to prove to yourself that you can go without. But once you've done that, you really need to move to the next stage of committing to being a non-user.

This is why I'm looking into things like repentance and other practices.

I have done over five months hard mode in the past. There really was no good reason to go back, other than I convinced myself that it didn't matter and I missed the lifestyle.

I am currently on about four PMOs in fifteen months. Technically fifteen months is tomorrow. It is a bit of an arbitrary measure since I was PMOing more frequently before that, but it sounds good. I feel like I've put PMOing behind me.

I am on over a hundred days without MO. I am feeling much better for it, and am actually worried about the prospect of having the opportunity to have sex as life without O is so much more stable and I don't want to sacrifice that.

Going without P has been more problematic. I haven't been using it, but ovet he last few months I have kept returning for only a few minutes every ten days to twenty days or so. I don't know why. I have looked at it in a sort of detached way, just seeing if I could engage with it without arousal, which I have been doing.

Generally I have been feeling much better and much more at peace with myself. I am on the longest streak without schizophrenic symptoms I've ever had since developing the condition some twenty years ago.

So nothing is wasted. My problems with PMO have been the psychological impact, not ED. Many psychiatrists prescribe moderate use for addictions rather than complete abstinence, and I have reached that point. So in many ways this is a story of success.

But I still want to never purposely look at P again. I want it completely out of my life. I don't know what is stopping me from doing this. I feel fine without P and MO. But every now and then it has occured to me that I could look at it, and it has been so easy to do so. I have always felt bad afterwards. But I have become so accustomed to the highs and lows, that I somehow have missed the lows as wells, missed having an excuse to feel bad about myself.

There is also the temptation to rebel against my self-imposed discipline. There is a thrill in rebelling. I enjoy fighting with myself intellectually, as anyone who has read my journal can see. I like trying to question myself and my motives and arrive at new conclusions. Looking at P has given me reason to continue debating with myself when I can't think of any more questions to ask of myself.

I would never have explored mindfulness or prayer or forgiveness without my addiction.

It has kept feeding my endless introspection.

I'm going to say sorry again. This time for the pleasure I have derived from actions that have caused me pain.

I am sorry for deriving pleasure from P that has caused me so much pain and suffering over so many years.

I am sorry for wasting my life on my addiction.

Thank you.






Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 21, 2019, 09:52:10 AM
So good to see people getting into the hundreds. I want to do six months hard mode. I'm not even sure I want to have sex, though that could be tricky as I'm trying to date somebody at the moment.

I need to work on the rewiring process. I am succeeding at splitting P from MO. In the past fifteen months I have done the two together four times, including a nine month stretch, a three and a half month stretch and a two month stretch of abstinence. The three and a half month stretch is still counting.

Splitting P from MO is the best thing I have done so far in terms of rewiring. The next step is stopping completely.

Tomorrow I will have done fifteen weeks without any MO at all. I want to do six months hard mode. In fact, I want to never search for P again. I don't want to be searching for P in my forties.

I'm sorry for deriving pleasure from something that has caused me so much harm.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 23, 2019, 06:57:35 AM
So several of the posters on this forum are very inexperienced with regards to sex and that has been one of the motivating factors for rebooting.

One of the things I think that needs to be rewired first in this regard is a feeling of entitlement to sex, which is fed by PMO addiction.

Both men and women are susceptible to feeling entitled to sex. It is a general feeling that relates to how attractive one feels.

PMO distorts this feeling. We get O on demand and so when we are not getting it we feel like we have been slighted. On top of this we start to confuse O on demand from self stimulation with O on demand from members of the opposite sex.

It took me a long time to realise that the reason I stayed a virgin until I was in my thirties was because I suffered from paranoid schizophrenia, not the other way around.

In other words, my flaws made me unattractive.

Realizing that I was not entitled to sex, that I had to earn it, was a key part of my rewiring.

I have sort of plateaued at the moment at being fine without sex. I am happy with myself, but realize that I am doing nothing to earn sex.

I prefer remaining as I am, happy with myself, to making the effort to earn sex.

Earning sex is not about changing who you are, it is about doing things that make you attractive, ranging from general cleanliness and looking after yourself, to engaging with work and partaking in hobbies.

It may seem that you have to change who you are in order to do these things, but that is not true, you just have to do them.

Worrying about what you do rather than just doing it is the unattractive thing, it casts doubt on the worth of your actions.

Plenty of people with a PMO habit have sex lives, many even on this forum. Indeed there are many married people on this forum.

Worry about PMO is a turn off. But practicing PMO can have negative effects as we all know. Thus the solution is to simply not do it.

It is the worry that makes me say that it is a neurosis as well as an addiction.

Stopping PMO will not automatically make you entitled to sex. Rather the opposite, it will make you have a more realistic appreciation of what it means to earn sex.

This is the first phase of the rewiring process.

Earning sex requires other things besides. Some posters already do these things and so are able to have sex lives.

For me, I know that my priority remains moving away from paranoid schizophrenia.

Just staying sane is an accomplishment for me in itself.

Worry about lack of sex and PMO have been a big part of the reasons for my condition. Quitting PMO whilst recognising that I am not entitled to sex has been a big part of my recovery from being a paranoid schizophrenic. What I am entitled to be is myself.

I have still not gone a year without either PMO or schizophrenic symptoms. However the progress I have been making is already allowing me to flirt via text messages with women, something that I would never of been able to do before.

What I have to do to earn a sexual relationship is still not clear to me, but one thing I am doing is not worrying about it anymore, and that is one of the biggest steps forward I have made in a long time.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 23, 2019, 01:32:24 PM
So I am thinking about the extent to which I have been objectifying women and myself.

This is the real reason I have not had a sex life.

Objectifying is a separation.

Of course if I focus on what separates me from a woman I will not have sex with her.

Objectifying women has led me to objectify myself, or perhaps the other way around.

This is why I have engaged with PMO rather than a real sex life.

This is the reason I have caused myself so much pain through PMO.

It has been a vicious cycle, the more I have PMOd the more I have objectified myself and others.

I need to say sorry to myself and others for this as well.

Once again, it is easy to write, far harder to really mean it, but I shall write it anyway as a start.

I am sorry.

I am sorry for objectifying myself and others.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 23, 2019, 03:11:30 PM
So my last post hurt and it hurt a lot. I am wondering about this whole repentance thing. I just went out and had a schizophrenic or perhaps gnostic experience. I'm leaning towards describing it as the latter even though it was mildly disturbing. It made me think of the arrogance of my last apology and original sin. According to the Torah and Old Testament of the Bible, it was God who cast us into this world of objects, made us as to see ourselves reflected as an object. Was I apologising for God? We always perceive objects and objective facets of both the world and ourselves, at the very least we use names. Must I apologize for this? Am I, by apologizing for this, negating God? The gnostic experience I just had made me think like this. Perhaps that is the point of repentance. But I am now wondering if perhaps it isn't masochistic. It really hurt and the more I meant it the more it hurt. Only by rationalizing around it could I feel comforted, but in reality it was realizing that for a moment I believed in God that gave me the most comfort. Indeed this is the point of repentance as practiced in Orthodox Christianity. But do I need to experience pain to believe in God? Do I need to believe in God at all? I have come to the conclusion that to not believe in a higher power is violence. It is disobediance against that which created you. One can start with one's parents. Believing in one's parents is belief in a higher power. One can continue back, believing in one's ancestors. Perceiving them as "things" rather than powers is lack of belief. This is my problem with "God", it is a word, which is a "thing". But the true God is not the one that can be spoken. It is a power, the power of love. I am just writing, using words, I cannot convey belief. I think even atheists believe in some power that has influence over themselves. Indeed I am sure of it. Whether they believe that power is good or bad or indifferent, happy with them or angry at them, assisting them or oppressing them, I know they believe in some power beyond what they can control.

To come back to my apology then, did I need to apologize for it. Certainly I objectified myself and others. But that is a part of life. Our perceptions are relative. My main argument remains, if I focus on objectifying myself or the woman I am talking to, in being separate and separating her, of course I will not be able to make love. To live in this world without ever objectifying is impossible. But one can turn away from objectifying and put one's focus on absence of separation. Believing that we are one is the basis of love.

When I have dated I have constantly put my attention on my separateness, only when I have put my faith in being one with the person I was dating have I got anywhere towards sexual interaction. Shame over PMO has been one of the biggest things that has separated me from women. The acts have fed my feelings of separation and made me to feel different. I have been orgasming whilst interacting with objects, images, words. I have been orgasming whilst objectifying. If I did this in real life with a woman it would be rape. I do need to say sorry for my PMO abuse.

I am sorry for orgasming whilst objectifying.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on September 23, 2019, 07:47:13 PM
Georgos, it seems to me that by zeroing in on being "sorry", you are creating additional problems for yourself. It's causing a crisis regarding the parameters and extent of your sorriness - as well as whom you are apologising to (God, yourself, people in your life). I'm not saying these are not valid things to evaluate, but it shouldn't overshadow your overall direction of improvement. I think it's safer at this time to acknowledge the things you regret, and by all means, work out why, but maybe don't get too embroiled in "sorry" as it pertains to guilt. Guilt is an expression of ego and it interferes with objective analysis. Personally I don't think anyone needs to apologise to God, so that's a non-starter for me. It's better, and more productive, to work out what things you regret and know didn't work out for you, and take steps to correct each of them.

As far as "earning" sex. I get what you were driving at - but I also think it's mostly bullshit. Yes, looking after yourself and being a well functioning, attractive person makes it more likely that you'll pick up a partner, but there are innumerable cases of people having partners who actually want sex with them even when they are not in ideal shape. Sometimes it just works out - synchronicity, kismet, happenstance - call it what you like, some relationships spring out of the most unlikely circumstances. People fall in love with people who are terminally ill, morbidly obese, physically disabled, suicidal, depressed, incarcerated. The list is endless. So the mere fact that this happens means a model based on "earning" sex is flawed. There are people who have this transactional model of pairing, but that's more for people living a certain type of lifestyle which focuses more on the ego: material wealth, hedonism, attention seeking, power, influence. In these circumstances, high partner-count and proving one's attractiveness take centre stage. Similarly, although ironically, people who have never had sex, or have had very little experience and find it elusive, tend to adopt the transactional model - they explain their own lack of success with sexual partners with being deficient in the same things that highly successful sexual conquerers use. It plays into their feelings of low self-worth.

The reality is most people who are in a longterm relationship did not "earn" it. They found themselves in a circumstance where a relationship managed to grow with somebody - probably at a time they least expected it. For most people, they will say they were surprised how it happened, and that anything came of it at all. There is far more to this than many people realise. You shouldn't look to sexual conquerers, or to people with issues around being inexperienced, for clues on how relationships form. Both of them are poor vantage points for understanding. I found my partner at a time when I was at a pretty low point regarding my self-worth and feelings of attractiveness. If you had asked me my chances of finding a girlfriend a month prior to that, I would have said, "zero". This is how I know it's not about "earning" anything. All it takes is being in the right place at the right time, being genuine and having some qualities that are of interest to the other person. The mass media has existed on countless fallacies on how you can snag a partner - but that's just garbage fodder for people who are desperate.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 24, 2019, 04:24:56 AM
Hi Malando, thanks for posting your comments.

I agree 100% with your points about "earning" sex being mostly bullshit. I was trying to build on my point about the falacy of feeling entitled to sex by thinking about what the opposite to that is. But earning sex is not really the opposite, it sort of implies that if you do XYZ you will then be entitled to sex. In other words, it is still all about entitlement. I think feeling entitled to sex is one of the biggest problems that people who are worried about lack of sex have to deal with, and a lot of it can stem from PMO abuse as I have said. Stopping feeling entitled is a big part of the healing process allowing you to return to feeling comfortable with yourself. I am still struggling to see the difference between feeling confident and feeling entitled. Confidence is said to be one of the keys to getting a lot of sex, but maybe this is also bullshit, based on ideas about sexual conquering. As you yourself say, you were in a low place when you met your partner.

I think the better realisation is about objectification and separation. I know that I have a tendency to constantly objectify myself on dates, for example, and thus inhibit my ability to be myself, and find reasons that me and my date are separate. I don't tend to objectify the other person so much, I don't think, at least not in conversation, but over the years of PMO abuse, I have trained myself to seek orgasm through objectification of women. So I think objectification does have a big part to play in why I have been so unssuccessful at forming sexual relationships.

With regards to saying sorry and causing a crisis for myself, I am not sure. I still feel sane, despite experiencing a somewhat altered reality last night. As someone who was not brought up to be religious, I have often wondered what the difference between having religious experiences and insanity is. A lot of my explorations of mysticism were born out of the idea that people could experience altered states without parnaoia and them causing them harm.

Saying sorry is helping me, I think, because I still think I need to recognise that PMO abuse is wrong, not just something that has caused me to suffer. I need to acknowledge why it is wrong at a much deeper level than simply saying that I have had bad experiences from it. Nothing is absolutely wrong, but I have still had the idea that it was more an accidental twist of fate that PMO didn't agree with me, because so many other people seemed to be able to endulge in it with no negative side effects. Saying sorry is helping me to acknowledge that I engaged in something that was wrong more objectively, not just subjectively.

I know it might seem a bit over the top, the connection with the existence of God and turning away from sin, or separation from God, but it is a spiritual practice and in that it is no different from mindfulness which comes from the Buddhist practices or kung fu as a spiritual practice, both of which can get quite extreme. Mindfulness can lead you to a spiritual crisis just as much as repentance.

As I said, feeling the hurt that comes with saying sorry, is helping me to acknowledge that what I did was wrong, and hopefully this will help me to turn away from it and not return. But there is no guarantee. I have mentioned in a previous post someone who was always repenting for their addiction and never managed to overcome it through this practice alone. The amount of hurt I have been feeling has made me question whether this path is suitable for me, given my condition, but so far I have found it therapeutic, although the experience last night could have gone the other way, had I not been doing so well.

I think I will continue to say sorry, to feel the hurt of what I have done, and hopefully get to a stage where I won't do it again. However I am grateful for your concern.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 25, 2019, 03:08:22 PM
So I have mentioned before the metaphor that if you want to empty a jug of air, it is easier to fill it with water than try to create a vacuum.

I need to fill my life with more fulfilling activities than counting days.

The problem is that stressful activities lead to relapse as PMO or at least MO has been shown to be a form of destressing as powerful as meditation by some researchers.

That it leads to more stress afterwards and creates a vicious cycle of shame and relapse, has not been publicised so much.

I want to address this cycle in another post, how some people claim that the specific hormones released during MO differ from those released during sex, and even that Chinese Medical practitioners can tell the difference between the "neurotic" pulse after MO and the healthy pulse after sex. I will hopefully be able to post about this, but at present can't find much in the way of references.

At any rate, the problem remains, what to fill my attention with so that I don't return to P.

Writing here achieves that to some extent, but then, when I can't think of any more to write, I am tempted to return to P just so that I can write some more.

I have often engaged in politics in the past, but this has caused me more stress than anything else.

Work is stressful for me as I find it hard to concentrate with the medication I am on and can't seem to find anything that satisfies me following the extremes of my mental illness.

The only thing that satisfies me is introspection at this stage, but there is a limit to how much I can do that.

I need to do practical things, without feeling stressed, so that I can avoid relapse, but what?

There are a few things I managed for several months that helped, a little study, a little reading, etc.

But I tried to push to do more and more, and when I failed, the stress caused me to relapse.

Similarly with stopping smoking. Every time I fail, I am tempted to throw everything in.

Filling my daily life with non-stressful activities that don't cause me to have psychotic relapses or return to P remains a challenge.

I don't know what to do about it other than keep trying.

Learning to be content with what I have and practicing gratitude is one way, but I still need to engage with life.

It feels like a Catch 22 situation.

I am continuing to make progress, so for that I am thankful.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 26, 2019, 07:52:07 AM
So I really think learning not to objectify, either myself or others, when it comes to sexual interactions, is the biggest rewiring issue. Images are objects, you can take ownership of objects, you can control them. People are life, you can't own or control them. Obviously the distinction gets blurred as people possess objects, their bodies, their personalities, their clothes, etc., but reducing the life within to the objects the person possesses is not the basis of sexual interactions. There is no spiritual connection, there is no love. Even PUA talks about their practice as a "game", which is a real life interaction, not a form of control. Objectifying a person is not only wrong, it is not going to get you anywhere. Noticing a woman's possessions, her body, for instance, does not give you the right to take it or control it, even in your imagination, that is rape or stealing. We all know it is wrong, yet P abuse wires the brain into accepting such behaviour as the norm. This is the internal contradiction that P abuse sets up. Even assuming the performers in P give their consent to you using their images for your pleasure, which hopefully is always the case, we do not ask when we use P we just use it. At most we pay a fee and even then it is us initiating the transaction through middlemen. Repeating this behaviour causes conflict in the wiring of the brain, even though for the most part we can distinguish between fantasy and reality, imagination and action. If your imagination is not in synch with your actions then you will be conflicted. Knowing that your imagination is morally wrong, even if your actions are perfectly acceptable, is a recipe for dysfunction. I know I have objectified women, and continue to do so to some extent, when I see them out and about. I know that I objectify myself when I try and interact with them. These are two sides of the same coin. Objectifying oneself is trying to control oneself, and the only reason you have to do that is because you have a tendency to objectify and try and control other people, at least in your mind. Reading people having flashes of objectifictation in their imaginations shows just how much more rewiring they have to do. It gets confusing when it starts with a statement of preference for a certain kind of possession, a certain kind of body. Preference is not the same as appreciation. Preference implies that one can take ownership of it. One cannot possess another person's body. Appreciation means respecting that it is theirs. I know that I do it. The extent to which I do it, I haven't even begun to address. Simply stopping PMO is the first step towards stopping feeding the behaviour. The hope is that time will heal. But we still see women everyday, and unchecked we will still objectify. Fighting objectification is not necessarily the best way forward, like saying don't think of a red elephant, and being unable not to. Fighting produces a reaction, and fighting yourself sets up internal conflict. Indeed I would say that I already fight myself when I objectify people, and it hasn't stopped me from doing it. It is a much harder behaviour to give up, harder even than PMO, because PMO is an action, but objectification is a thought. Thoughts come first. Meditation, mindfulness, is one practice that will help. One can consciously try to be mindful when noticing women. Not fighting oneself, just being aware of the thoughts that pass through one's mind without placing any attachment on them. Over time they will cease to appear. I really do believe repenting can help as well. Saying sorry, feeling the hurt of objectification, will bring about empathy for the other person, which can then lead to real appreciation. I don't know what else to suggest. As I said, I, as much as anyone else who has practiced P abuse, still need to rewire. Indeed just now I was in a cafe and experienced internal conflict over objectifying a woman's breasts. I didn't barely look at them, but I still objectified them, and still ended up fighting myself, and objectifying myself, reducing myself to my personality, which as I have said is another thing we all possess. We own our words, we own our emotions, but they are not us. I am sorry I did this. I am sorry I have so often objectified people and myself. One can be forgiven even without saying sorry, but it means so much more to be forgiven if one truly is. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Lero on September 26, 2019, 08:26:26 AM
I know what you're talking about, man. When I was in eighth grade, I started putting one of my classmates in P scenes. For whoever did this, maybe they know that feeling when you meet her and you feel awkward as fuck. It was super strange to meet her at school after me binging on fantasies with her the evening before. Same in high school.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 27, 2019, 06:17:25 AM
Thank you Lero, yes, I had the same experience throughout high school.

Fantasies are under your control, other people are not. P teaches one to seek total control. You are responding to an object, an image, a video, not a living person. It is never an interaction based on shared desires. Yet the images are of living people, which can lead to confusion about how to interact in person. Recognising that you cannot control people is part of growing up, it is a stage babies go through, however it persists into adulthood. In truth you can only ever either offer someone options or be of one mind with them. You cannot do both, either you are separate and in the position to offer someone options, crudely speaking forms of carrot and stick, or you are united and their thoughts and actions are your own. In both cases you are not controlling them, their choices are either separate or the same as yours. You are either one or separate. Trying to control someone or something implies separation. Only objects can be controlled, and even then at a quantum level total control is impossible. You can shift the probabilities in your favour via the options you present, but you cannot control something that is separate from you. The mistake many people make is mistaking control over other people with being one with them. If you are of one mind, then there is no separation, and one's choices are the same. However this is not the same as being in control of someone else, which implies separation. Love is to be united with someone. There is a high degree of separation between P and the P user. Love becomes very difficult, if not impossible. Orgasm promotes oneness with the thing we are orgasming over. Thus as we abuse P we are becoming one with an object, objectifying ourselves, reducing our degrees of freedom to that of an object. An object gives no love back, it persists in being what it is, separate. This is why love becomes so difficult with P and we are forced to seek out ever more, looking for some sign that it is one with us. Perhaps it reflects our fantasies better, but still it will always persist in being slightly different, slightly out of synch. We are never one with P even though we are engaging in MO to become one with it. We are not objects. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 28, 2019, 05:05:35 AM
So ten days without P, over a hundred and ten days without MO. I've barely done thirty days without P since the end of March. I want to do six months hard mode. I'm happy not MOing and I never want to wilfully look at P again, so potentially aiming for six months is a red herring. I am simply choosing to stop for good. Things could get tricky if I start having sex. I'm trying to date a woman at the moment, so far we've just been exchanging text messages. Time will tell how this pans out. I've got much better at text messaging, having learned to just be myself without trying to objectify the other person's personality. In the past I really worried about cause and effect with text messages, what effect my words would have, making the assumption that they would have a definite result either way. Cause and effect only applies to objects. So I was really objectifying the other person's personality, trying to take ownership of it and control it. This wasn't out of malice, but fear and desire, fear of saying the wrong thing, and desire at receiving a positive response. Now I just be myself and don't objectify the other person's personality at all. Things are much better. I still find it hard dating in person. Then you actually have somebody in front of you, and I find I am constantly fighting objectification, either of myself or them. Fighting it just makes it worse, which is the lesson of mindfulness. I still find it hard just being comfortable with myself in such situations. Perhaps I shouldn't make such a big deal out of this. It is very common, but my years of PMO abuse has definitely made it worse. Anyway, writing here is helping me with regards to P. I've been talking to a priest about repentance and he is giving me some advice, though obviously he is also drawing me into the church, which is not something I'm sure I want to do. I'm used to picking and choosing my practices, without committing to some overarching structure. Baptism is my biggest fear. I'm happy to partake in the church on my terms, just as I would go to meditation of t'ai ji classes, but being baptised seems like a commitment I'm not prepared to make. It would mark me out as a Christian, as opposed to an individual who merely participates in certain practices. At any rate, I will probably go and talk to him in person, as he suggests, and explore repentance a bit more with him. At this stage I still do not believe Jesus Christ is our Lord and Saviour or the highest embodiment of God. I should note that my reluctance is not just limited to Christianity, I was put off Reiki by the fact that you had to be attuned to the Reiki source energy, which seems to me to be a similar practice to baptism. I don't think I could commit to a Guru or Sufi Sheikh either. Anyway, as I said, writing here is helping me with regards to P. Focusing on why objectification is wrong, or at least damaging to one's ability to form relationships, is keeping me grounded. I'm sorry once again for all the objectification of people I have done over the years. I'm sorry for deriving pleasure from something that has damaged me so much. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 29, 2019, 05:39:01 AM
So trying to distinguish between objectification and appreciation is tough. If I look at a woman, am I appreciating her or am I objectifying her? If you analyse this, pretty soon you run into the paradox of oneness and multiplicity which has no definite answer. Even calculus doesn't resolve the paradox fully. One way of thinking of it is that there are no objects. Objectification is an illusion. An object is something one can possess, one can control. In reality we never fully possess anything or control anything. Every"thing" is in flux. As I said, analysis doesn't really help. I am just writing.

From a practical point of view, trying to work out cause and effect, practice and results, we are necessarily objectifying, as cause and effect only applies to objects.

So trying to work out how to stop porn abuse, trying not to MO, these are the results of objectifying our behaviour. We believe in the brain chemistry, the objective sensations. We have objectified our behaviour in an effort to control it. In reality it is simply a choice. Our highest self chooses what we do. So we are fighting ourselves. We are in conflict with ourselves. Part of us wants to stop, another part wants to carry on. Thus we are unable to make a firm choice. We ourselves are not an object. Analysis doesn't help.

One of the main reasons I write is because it gives me pleasure, and that pleasure is an alternative to P. So writing here helps to orientate me away from P. But again I am objectifying.

I am happy. I am not MOing. I am not looking at P. This is what I want.

With regards to having real sex and a real partner or girlfriend, I am still looking for cause and effect, practice and results. I am still objectifying the situation, still analysing. I am comfortable texting women now, what has changed, nothing, except I now feel comfortable.

Illusions are real until one sees through them. The idea that cause and effect is an illusion points to the fundamental mystery of life, that of life itself. Why do we perceive some "things" and not others, why do we perceive "things" at all when "things" are an illusion. How do we perceive? These questions are fundamentally unanswerable. We just do, it is what it means to be conscious.

In the end life is because life is. Every"thing" is just because of that.

This is philosophy, it is not very practical, but it helps one to accept.

How do we change? We just do, that is the journey. Beating yourself up about P or MO may be part of the journey, it generally is not very nice, being in conflict with oneself. I also don't think it helps me, indeed in some ways I think this has been a bigger problem for me than my actual P abuse, how I have related to it. Yet if I hadn't gone through the stage of beating myself up, I might never have stopped. On the other hand I might have grown out of P naturally. The what if scenario.

What's done is done. This has been my life so far. I am not looking at P. I am not MOing. I am happy.

Thank you.

Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Edit_undo on September 29, 2019, 08:36:46 AM
So trying to distinguish between objectification and appreciation is tough. If I look at a woman, am I appreciating her or am I objectifying her?

Georgos, I am having a similar conflict with this very question. So much so that my reboot is almost stalled. I could devote all of my energy and effort to not looking at women but is that what the end result should be? Not entirely. I want my appreciation for women to be “normal”. That is, appreciating the beauty of a person and not just ogling a body parts.

I don’t have any answers or ideas to contribute. I just wanted to say I appreciate you posting your thoughts on this.

I am happy. I am not MOing. I am not looking at P. This is what I want.

With regards to having real sex and a real partner or girlfriend, I am still looking for cause and effect, practice and results. I am still objectifying the situation, still analysing.

Not to oversimplify either of our situations, I’m in a similar spot. 1.5 years of no P and limited MO (2x). I’m married so this has not been hard mode. But little change (I have Pied).
 
I wish you the best on this journey.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Lero on September 29, 2019, 08:41:10 AM
Quote
So trying to distinguish between objectification and appreciation is tough. If I look at a woman, am I appreciating her or am I objectifying her?

With me, this is simple (and tough at the same time): I look at a girl and have fantasies with her in P scenarios. I'm trying not to but my mind just jumps there. Yeah, I'm heavily invested in P, what can I say.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 29, 2019, 11:28:57 AM
Thank you Lero and Edit_undo,

Edit_undo, I'm trying to think of what to say to you, do you still have PIED, you said you haven't been going hard mode because your married, so I take it you are having sex, that is something.

Also, I think it's great that you are 1.5 years without P and next to no MO, that is what you wanted and so you're a success.

I think the thing to note is that being philosophical, learning to accept, or even forgive, does not mean condoning. You can't do everything, so you can't do whatever you want, whenever you want, however you want, with whoever you want, without it being a restriction in some way. You choose those restrictions. Looking at P, MOing, is a restriction. Choosing not to is also a restriction. You cannot do both at the same time and if you try to you will end up fighting yourself. You have to choose your topology, to use a fancy word which just means your set of restrictions. Not all topologies are compatible, in other words there is no grand unified topology that incorporates everything. That would be the same as saying the set of unrestricted restrictions. This is a good thing, it is the reason we have choices.

We can look at the whys and hows but in the end everything is our choice, our choice of restrictions. You can choose the one's that make you happy or you can choose the one's that make you miserable, but there is no absolute happiness or misery, and these are restrictions as well.

It seems a bit cruel to say you have chosen your PIED, also being aware of choice, it is impossible to avoid conflict altogether, the existence of alternatives makes you vacilitate or oscilate between them. Even this writing, I cannot tell you how to find a grand unified theory that will help you get out of it altogether.

Be happy with your choices, accept your choices. That is the most I can say. If you choose to fight with yourself, that is also a choice.

If abstaining from P and MO hasn't cured your PIED, I don't think questioning your oggling will cure it either. Loving yourself, believing you are normal is probably the best place to start. The placebo effect is real, so believing that you will leave your PIED behind will help. In effect belief is a form of choice.

My own opinion is that by questioning your oggling you are fighting with yourself again, believing yourself to not be normal, and causing yourself anxiety which is causing your PIED. You are looking for reasons for your PIED, why you choose to experience it, if you like, before you over come it.

As I said, it is cruel to simply say that you can choose not to experience PIED, just like that. It is like saying I can choose to have a girlfriend, just like that. In both cases it denies our world view, our choices of restrictions. It is perfectly alright to want to know why you have chosen such an experience, what you are doing wrong, etc., before you choose to over come it. This is what is meant when people say life is lessons that we have chosen, possibly before you incarnated, if you believe in eternity. Once we have mastered a lesson we move on.

So as I said, I don't know what to say to you, you have stopped P which is what you aimed at, you have stopped MO, which you have also been aiming at, and now you have moved on to questioning your oggling, all because you view yourself as not having "normal" responses. You still have PIED to some extent, yet you seem to have sex. Have things improved? You still seem to doubt yourself.

None of this means that you have to go back to the things that you have rejected. They say it is not the destination that, counts it is the journey. You have reached your destination with P and MO. It is no longer part of your life. You have not yet, so it seems, reached your destination with PIED. I cannot tell you what to do about that other than maybe just relax and believe in yourself more. Confidence is being comfortable with the idea that you are just the same as everybody else. Perhaps you have been objectifying yourself as somehow "different" for too long. When we objectify other people we objectify ourselves, and when we objectify ourselves we objectify other people. My guess is that having PIED probably makes you objectify your penis, it may have even started the other way around. Maybe just try to feel more comfortable with your wife and not worry about other people so much.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Edit_undo on September 29, 2019, 04:06:33 PM
Thank you Lero and Edit_undo,

Edit_undo, I'm trying to think of what to say to you, do you still have PIED, you said you haven't been going hard mode because your married, so I take it you are having sex, that is something.

Also, I think it's great that you are 1.5 years without P and next to no MO, that is what you wanted and so you're a success.


Thanks Georgos, I’m definitely happy with where I am vs where I started. As for intimacy I get by with ED meds. Or other stimulation but at least it is real interaction with a real person. My favourite person.  Not perfect but good for the situation I find myself in. I’ve read many accounts on here and mine is no different: my MD didn’t even blink and handed me a prescription. No questions about PMO or anything. Some bloodwork and away you go.

I think the thing to note is that being philosophical, learning to accept, or even forgive, does not mean condoning.

It seems a bit cruel to say you have chosen your PIED, also being aware of choice, it is impossible to avoid conflict altogether, the existence of alternatives makes you vacilitate or oscilate between them. Even this writing, I cannot tell you how to find a grand unified theory that will help you get out of it altogether.

Of course you are right. Acceptance of my position is the first step to change. And I don’t find it cruel of you to say I’ve chosen this. It’s strikingly accurate that I chose to view P without considering side effects. Not that anybody knew at the time.

So yes, the way out is developing a bulletproof belief in myself and I guess the “how” is to continue healthy activities that boost self confidence. I accept that the placebo effect has a part in this. But I’d say the struggle is expecting or hoping everything to work out, in spite of poor results this far.

For a long time, and I suspect most users are, I have been in internal conflict, doing things I (my higher self) doesn’t agree with or believe to be right. It’s getting better now that I’ve quit PMO and my actions line up with my beliefs more.

I appreciate your thoughts on this. My intention was not to highjack your thread talking about my struggles!  Just to commiserate with you in some similar struggles. Thank you.

Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on September 30, 2019, 05:19:54 AM
Your welcome Edit_undo, and thank you.

I know I go a bit over board with the philosophy and spiritual stuff or at least write a lot about it. With my mental health condition I have experience reality in such extreme forms of fluidity that straightforward analysis doesn't really cut it for me. It would be like trying to apply mathematical physical theories to what one experiences in dreams, it simply doesn't work. However for the most part my aim is to live in a concrete reality, at least in preference to a nightmarish one.

The other day, after writing to a priest about repentance, I experienced a wave of uncontrollable sadness for no apparent reason. It was just a really strong emotion, and as I was trying to figure out its source, I thought of all the women in P I had witnessed over the years and wondered about their lives.

My conclusion after exchanging emails with the priest is that the sole purpose of repentance and confession in the Orthodox church is to turn towards God and in particular Jesus as His embodiment. The priest made it clear that confession is not meant to deal with psychology, though the person receiving the confession may find that they have to address some psychological aspects given the prevalence of psychological thinking in our culture. Thus psychological problems and issues are for psychologists and psychiatrists to deal with, not priests per se. Clearly psycho-analysis borrowed much from confession, especially in the traditional forms of psycho-analysis, and in many ways this is what I was thinking of when I started exploring the practice of confession within the church. For me the added element that I was looking for was the miracle of forgiveness wiping away sins. However, the priest made it clear that we should not expect anything from confession, that God works in mysterious ways, and though the priest will make his upmost effort to provide forgiveness, it doesn't follow that one won't have to work through the consequences of one's past or that one will be freed from the feelings associated with the sin. Rather, the whole purpose is to strengthen one's relationship with and turn towards God, as I said. With this in mind I am not sure whether I really want to pursue the practice. To have a relationship with Jesus and the idea that one can "turn towards God" as if one was ever not "turned towards God", is an ideology and one that I'm not sure I share. I think I understand it conceptually, and it does make sense to me as an ideology, but whether it is one I want to subscribe to I'm not sure. Taken to its extreme it is the road to monasticism and this is what I fear.

Having said that, most Orthodox Christians are not monks or nuns, they merely partake in the mysteries of the church to a greater or lesser extent side by side with their every day life. I have been invited to partake in confession to see what happens. I believe I will accept this offer, at least once, if only out of curiousity.

Whether it will help me I don't know. And as I said, I have been advised to have no expectations, it is really about being Orthodox Christian above all esle, not curing psychological problems, as I have said.

Malando mentioned that guilt stemmed from ego, and I want to meditate on that a bit more. Do I need to feel sad for what I have done to be freed from it, or a such feelings only a way towards "turning towards God"?.

On one level we are all God(s), so turning towards God means turning towards your fellow man or woman, "loving thy neighbour". This is certainly something I subscribe to, but in a relativistic sense. P has separated me from other people, so I can still see the value in confession and repentance as a practice.

It is the separation that P has caused in my life that I am trying to overcome. I will continue to say sorry. I will continue to confess. But the main thing I think is to continue to choose not to repeat those actions that have separated me.

Thank you.

Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 01, 2019, 06:07:07 AM
So tomorrow it will be two weeks without P, 115 days without MO. Over and above this, I have to stay sane. My recent heavy introspection and exploration of spiritual practices has been dangerous with regards to this. Thinking too much about the mysteries of life, the infinite possibilities, which practice is best, what I am doing wrong, etc. has been taking me down a path away from practical reality into the unknown and insanity. I am staying sane, I have only had very minor flashes of schizophrenia, very, very minor, but it has been building up and I need to stay grounded. I really do enjoy introspection, I enjoy expressing my ego, but it is dangerous. I need to fill my day with practical things, but all the things I want to do are in some ways worse than introspection. Getting heavy into meditation and t'ai ji for example, or mathematics. On the other hand, I know that if I were able to do some mundane or mindless job, I would find myself going insane as well, it has happened in the past. I had thought about trying to get a job in a supermarket at the start of 2020, which assuming I am still sane, would be after the longest stretch of sanity I have had in nearly twenty years. My reasoning was it would ground me, but my last stint volunteering in a charity shop when I again thought that I had recovered, didn't last very long, and I had a psychotic relapse after a month or so. I have a condition, and pretty much doing anything can exacerbate it. I don't think any of these things or activities actually cause me to relapse, people do all of them whilst staying sane quite happily. I have a bio-chemical problem with my brain that means I can't interact for a prolonged period of time with any one thing without it taking me to other worlds. Recently I have been doing introspection, I am doing it now. That perhaps is the constant throughout my life. However I don't always write it down. Writing has been filling up my day, but now I am worried I am on the path to loosing my foothold on the ground again. Not very worried, but I have noticed some of the signs, very early this time, and I think this is partly because of some of the subjects I have been addressing. I just don't know, I have a condition, everything is a trigger. I am succeeding here, but all my other aims have stalled, and this has been nagging me at the back of my mind. The tension this has created is also partly to blame for me moving down a less grounded path. I am staying sane, which is good, I am abstaining from P and MO which is also good. Perhaps I am just scared to take the next step and this is why I have been pushing to fail at the first aim. So far I am managing to keep both my priorities intact. I had been pushing to reduce my smoking in the morning, trying to abstain for the whole morning each day, but now I have just fallen back to not smoking first thing or in the middle of the night, which is still an accomplishment. Both require little effort on my part, just remaining relaxed. There are several things that I want to introduce to my daily routine. I need to focus on one of them at a time, but I get impatient. Keeping an even keel is the important thing, but my condition really interferes with this whenever I try to make changes. I have reduced my life to counting days and introspection. I think I will aim for the smoking as a priority. Preparing for work is not so important. If and when I have to work, I will be able to, provided I have recovered from my condition. At the very least I will be able to work in a supermarket, though recently I have heard that even these types of jobs can be difficult to get. I really think that smoking should be my next priority, I am not so worried about the health effects, although I have had a terrible cough for some time now, but quitting smoking will make my financial burden more manageable which will be especially important if and when I start to work. There are three months left of the year, I should be able to make significant progress towards quitting smoking in that time. I know this is the wrong attitude, it is an attitude born out of my experience with PMO addiction and counting days. The truth is with any addiction one just has to make the choice to stop and stop. But arriving at that decision can involve a long journey of convincing oneself, don't I know it. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 05, 2019, 05:16:09 AM
So my sanity is my top priority. I'm doing so well, but I still know it's been somewhat tenuous. The key thing at the moment is not to let paranoia build when it first emerges. So far I've been able to just allow paranoid thoughts to pass through without dwelling on them. They've mostly been quite mild, but that is how it always starts. Not focusing on day to day practicalities is part of the problem, but even when I am engaged with doing such things, my mind can wander. It is the focus that counts and spreading that focus over the whole day, rather than just focusing intensely for smaller periods of time. I'm thinking back to when I was working, how I had relapses despite doing work. It's not necessarily practical things that I need to focus on but being grounded. It is so strange, I don't have a good working model of how my reality or perception of reality can change or stay the same. Ultimately, cause and effect is an illusion, life just is. Trying to work out what I have to do to stay sane and recover is assuming cause and effect on a level that is not understood. It has been quite helpful to think of my sanity as a choice, and then simply say "I choose to stay sane". I am staying sane, but I've been questioning my reality, perceiving differences and changes, and trying to understand them, rather than ignoring them. I am on 17 days without P, 118 days without MO. But I have been totally failing for the last few weeks to control my smoking. I think it is this failure more than anything that has been driving my worries over my sanity. If I can choose to stay sane, why can't I just choose to control my smoking? Why and how do I make choices? As I said, ultimately cause and effect are illusions, life just is. The level of control we have over our lives, over what we do, what happens to us, etc. is a constant worry for me, and begs the question "who am I?". Again, ultimately there is no answer. I have been on a long journey of trying to find deeper and deeper models, the most general model that can allow me to function. But a theory of everything is impossible, one can even prove that mathematically. I need to just accept life. Accept things the way they are. On the other hand I want to give up smoking, which I am still struggling to do. How to stop struggling and simply do is the question, but asking that question is struggling in itself. I need to accept my choices. I keep vacillating over my choices, making one choice, then making the opposite. This is what gives the illusion of structured control. There is no structure, only choice. I can choose to abstain from smoking, just as I am choosing to abstain from P and MO. I can even choose to do it without any pain of withdrawal. But I have kept making the opposite choice. I have kept asking myself, how am I making these choices, why do I make these choices? I have kept struggling with my choices. I am staying sane, I am abstaining from P and MO, I want to abstain from smoking as well. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 06, 2019, 06:24:50 AM
So I'm staying sane, I'm not searching for P and I'm not MOing. Every morning I wake up knowing this I feel like a success. But the reality is there is so much more I need to do to get my life in order. I've said that my next priority is stopping smoking. At the moment I'm barely managing not to smoke first thing in the morning every day or make it through the night without a cigarette. I don't have any shame about smoking. I don't really worry about the health effects, except when I feel them explicitly, and even then I feel that it is the fault of my body rather than my smoking effecting my body. I am in complete denial about the health effects in fact. Tobacco, or at least nicotine, is a performance enhancing drug. I have been using it constantly throughout the day every day, for the past twenty years or more. I don't really care if I don't stop. The only real motivation I have is the challenge of being able to do without, a sort of competition with myself. Easing the financial burden of smoking is an incentive, but I am so far away from stopping completely. At the moment, I am just challenging myself to go a few hours without smoking, which I know I can do already. I have only once gone a complete day without smoking in the past twenty years. I am not competing with myself all day, only in the morning, and it has been so easy to give in and avoid the competition by just reverting to addiction as normal. I am just moaning about it here, really. I realised with P and MO that moaning is really self-indulgent and doesn't do anything to help address the addiction. Indeed in some ways it reinforces it. I'm going to post this anyway, just the act of turning my attention towards stopping smoking is a start, but I need to make the choice to stop and find the determination to see it through. For that I need to stop moaning and start committing to the process. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 07, 2019, 02:25:32 AM
So writing first thing in the morning helps set me up for the day of no P or MO, but it's not so good for helping me with my smoking addiction. I was going to call it a habit, that's how much in denial I am. I'm trying to control my smoking in the morning only, so the best thing to do is write just before I go to bed with the intention of seeing through the next morning smoke free. I don't know if I'll journal much about it here. This place is primarily for PMO of which I no longer partake in. I'm still going to keep writing here until I've made it to a year clean, though. It's four months since I last MOd, almost three weeks since I last searched for P. I dreamt about doing it last night, often a trigger in the past, but I'm confident I've made the definite choice to abstain now and won't have any problems. My sanity is still tenuous, and I've been noticing paranoia a bit more recently. I don't know why that is, possibly because of Brexit looming. In the past I've tended to relapse around times of political uncertainty, like elections, wars, leadership contests, etc. I've never been able to work out whether that has come from me being sensitive to something in the air, or whether it's all been my own making by dwelling on these things. At any rate, political instability has always been a trigger, and one of the biggest things I've done to maintain my sanity now is to keep well away from politics. Perhaps engaging with the Church has also been a bit of a trigger. I went to see an Orthodox priest the other day to talk to him about confession. He said he was willing to hear my confessions but I he wanted to ensure that I was sincere in wanting to join the Church permanently and not just dip in and out as I chose. Indeed this is one of the main aims of confession, as a sacrament of the Church. So it seems that my idea of adapting the practice, as mindfulness has been adapted from Buddhism, is not really in line with the priests intentions. I've come to appreciate a bit more about Orthodox Christianity and the whole notion of the Church. Jesus founded a Church not a religion, it is said. It is a community of people with faith in Jesus at its core. To partake, one has to become part of the community and abide by its codes. Coming to it with one's own ideas is not really respectful. So at this stage, I'm really not sure I want to be anything to do with it, although obviously to some extent it is a part of my heritage. I can confess here, I can repent here, that is an adaptation from one community to another. Whether I can receive God's grace and forgiveness here, the miracle of releasing me from my past, I don't know. But then I'm still not even sure I appreciate the word "God". I'm still in contact with the priest, he said I could come again and confess. I might do so, we'll see. At the moment, I'm more worried about staying sane. Abstaining from P and MO is taking place naturally and without any withdrawals or discomfort, so I feel like I'm succeeding with little effort. I want to move on to smoking, but I have seemed to be regressing to tackling sanity again. I don't know if this is an unconscious effort to avoid confronting my smoking by my addicted self as well. Anyway, it's one step at a time, day by day, I will get better. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 09, 2019, 04:28:21 AM
So I'm thinking about how I journal here. I really don't think it's good to journal bad stuff or set backs in a self-indulgent way. I'm not saying never mention these things, but there is an element of wallowing in the set backs and thus investing in them. So although I've had some set backs in my sanity and smoking this week, I'm not going to dwell on the negative aspects of them, and try and stay positive.

I am succeeding with my reboot. Twenty days no P, a hundred and twenty two days no MO, so far. I actually thought I was on twenty one days no P, but checked my counter and realised I'd miscounted a day.

Despite mild set backs in my sanity I am staying sane. I'm not sure what more I can do. As I said in my last post, the only thing I can think of that could be triggering my recent experiences of mildly altered perception and paranoia, could be the looming Brexit deadline that the government has been talking about. I'm not even really thinking about it, but I think that unconscious fears about it have still been in my mind.

I will start to tackle my smoking again. Everyday I think about it, but everyday I have been making no effort to actually stop. This has to and will change again.

These are my three priorities, sanity, reboot and abstaining from smoking. It's been a good year so far, I'm confident that it can only get better.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 10, 2019, 05:40:17 AM
So three weeks no P, over four months no MO. It's my sanity I'm most worried about at the moment. I've been dreaming about my more psychotic paranoias, people with superpowers who hate me and wish to oppress me or wipe me out, I'm not even sure who they are, sometimes I think they are aliens, sometimes I think they are mutants, other times just people who have developed these superpowers owing to different life histories. It's not really very coherent, but there are patterns. A lot of the time, I'm trying to convince them that I am the same as them, that I also have superpowers, rather than fighting them, because I know I can't win. This is but one of my psychotic paranoias, and at least I am not experiencing it in real life at the moment, at least not very much. At any rate, it has been disturbing me enough to worry about the onset of psychosis again.

In the past, I have tended to see my dreams as an extension of my reality rather than a separate and contained set of experiences. Thus I have worried about blurring between my dreams and my waking life. I think one of the best things I can do is to start to really believe that dreams are totally disconnected from waking life, the idea that a "dream is just a dream".

I have found that the more I am disturbed by my dreams, the more likely I am to smoke in the middle of the night, so believing that dreams have no influence on my waking reality would also help with me not feeling the need to "soothe" myself with nicotine.

I am nowhere near fullblown psychosis at the moment, but I have been having reminders, both in my dreams and in waking life, of some of my symptoms.

The upshot of this is that it has taken my mind off P, with my focus much more on the paranoias. In the past, I have always relapsed with PMO after a psychotic relapse. This is what happened after my last nine month stint without PMO, so staying sane is the top priority.

My reboot is going well, I don't really need to think about it, but I also need to be able to free myself from the recurrance of paranoid psychotic perception in my life as well.

What I really should be doing is practical things. I've been putting them off until I sort my smoking out, but I don't know if this is really the best way forward.

I chain smoke, every twenty minutes or so, throughout the day. Finding things to do instead would probably help me to cut down. Once again the idea of emptying a jug of air by filling it with water rather than trying to create a vacuum. However, I have also found that the effort of introducing activities into my day has meant that I have divested my focus into too many different things to do at once. Some people talk about multi-tasking as an ideal, but other people insist that in order to change something, you have to only focus on one thing to change at a time.

Apart from writing here, I don't really focus on P or MO during the day, which means that abstaining is not a struggle anymore as I am not fighting myself. I am simply abstaining having made my choice, and not even thinking about posing the question again. This is the best situation to be in with regards to overcoming an addiction, and means your less likely to get triggered because your just totally ignoring the old ways.

Getting to this stage has been a very long journey, and I've only really reached it since starting writing here. I should be in the same place with my psychosis, but I think that part of the problem is that once I've recovered from both psychosis and PMO abuse, I have to face al the other things in my life that need addressing.

Both paranoid schizophrenia and PMO abuse are chemical conditions, but I really do believe that attention and intention come first. I don't want to get into metaphysics or philosophy of mind, whether we have a spirit or soul or mind beyond the brain, it doesn't really matter, but what I will say is that I believe that where we place our attention and intention effects the biochemistry more than the other way around. This is a positive belief in our power of agency as human beings, even if ultimately, like all theories of cause and effect, it has no more justification than any other belief.

So I want to take my attention of my psychosis, just like I have taken it off my PMO abuse, and leave my condition in the past. I want to strengthen my intention to abstain from smoking, to be able to take my attention off smoking at least in the morning, as well.

I mentioned in my last post about not writing self-indulgent posts about failures. Perhaps I shouldn't even have mentioned my psychosis and paranoias in this post. In essence I have been doing what I don't want to do, placing my attention on my condition. Writing can be a form of release from one's attachments and preoccupations, but it can also reinforce them. There is a fine line between confession and repentance, and self-indulgent wallowing in sorrow.

I want to keep writing here, because it reminds me that I am succeeding with leaving P and MO in the past. If I don't write about my paranoid schizophrenia or even smoking failures, then I'm not sure what I will be able to write about. Perhaps I should just start journaling good things that happen in the day and a gratitude for all the good things in my life. That might be possible, there is a lot I take for granted, but on the other hand I do next to nothing each day at the moment, so I'm not sure where to begin.

Making this into a gratitude journal might be the best thing I could do, but my other concern is not sharing too much personal information. I'm not sure I can write a gratitude journal without divulging more personal stuff than I do already.

Anyway, progress continues. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 11, 2019, 05:44:21 AM
So I'm thankful for my friends and family and I'm thankful that I have the means to survive. I'm still P and MO free and I am thankful for that too.

I want to explore gratitude a bit more, though maybe not here, but I'll try to begin each post with a statement of gratitude for these things, even if it gets a bit repetitive.

I have been thinking about addressing so called "interracial porn" again and how it intersects with racism, deconstructing the attraction, but I'm not sure that is the best thing for me at the moment. It might refocus me on P and lead to a relapse. It also might disturb my sanity as an obsession with racism, both how it affects me and others, was one of the recurring themes in my psychosis.

I am most ashamed about having been drawn towards so called "interracial porn" because I have personal experience of being fetishized for my ethnic background. I have experienced and know what racism is. I think my motivation for deconstructing it is more to excuse myself by saying that "hey, I understand the racism in this", rather than actually repenting.

At the moment, I feel like digging up all this stuff again would take me backwards. I have no urges to search for P and I don't need to return to addressing P intellectually at this point. However I would like to help others to address their P addiction better if I can, and I know that deconstructing the attraction is a useful first step.

Perhaps people have to do this for themselves.

I am deeply ashamed and sorry that I have searched for and looked at so called "interracial porn",

I am sorry for "racially" fetishizing, both "black" and "white",

I know I was trying to understand more about myself in the process, and this confused right and wrong in my mind, but on balance I know that it was more wrong than right, and I am sorry for this.

I am really worried posting this will reignite my obsession with my "racial" identity and this might lead me back to P.

I'd much rather forget all about it.

The confusion lies in appreciating other's differences without objectifying them.

All porn is objectification, there is no excuse for looking at P.

Once again, I am sorry that I derived pleasure from objectifying people in porn.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 12, 2019, 06:24:16 AM
So I am thankful for my family and friends and thankful that I have the means to survive. I am thankful for all the help I receive and thankful for people's kindness and forgiveness of my faults. I am still P and MO free and I am also thankful for that.

There are just over two and a half months left till the end of the year. If I can stay sane that will be an achievement. If I can stay P and MO free that will be an achievement. I am also doing a course in a form of alternative medicine and if I can complete that (the first term finishes in December), that will also be an achievement.

Is that enough? There are so many other things I need to address, to start doing. The above three things will constitute an achievement for me, but I am doing them already, and I am wondering if I can do more.

I am thinking about procrastination and battling oneself. Fighting with oneself is the sureist way to fail. You can't beat yourself, it is impossible. You can compete with your past, but competing with yourself in the present is a recipe for not achieving anything.

I have often tried to motivate myself by writing, but in reality I am just competing with myself in words. I enjoy it, it passes the time, and it is entertaining, but it achieves nothing.

I know what I would like to do, but I'm not sure writing about it will help. Once I start doing it, documenting it so I can compete with the past, can be helpful. You can do better than you did in the past. You can compete with your past. But writing to motivate yourself is a poor subsitute for actually doing the things, and can even be counter productive.

In the past I have written that I will do certain things. I have so far failed to live up to those commitments. This makes my words hollow, my statements of intent lose value. There is only so many times you can say I will do something and not do it before the words become meaningless.

I am sorry for saying I will do something and then not doing it.

I am sorry for failling to honour my intent.

I am achieving somethings and that is good. Can I do more?

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 13, 2019, 05:45:46 AM
So another day without P or MO and I am thankful for that. I am thankful for all the things that contribute to sustaining and developing me. I am thankful for my sanity. I am thankful for my family and friends.

I'm not smoking first thing in the morning. I do this quite regularly, it really is easy, yet my record of consecutive days not smoking first thing in the morning is only eighteen, at least since I started counting. I want to beat that. I want to go till the end of the year without smoking first thing, every day. In fact, I never want to smoke first thing again.

In the past, after I have managed about a week of not smoking for a specific amount of time from the time I get up, I have tried to increase that amount of time. This has always resulted in me crashing back to zero abstinance when I failed. My aim has been to build up to not smoking the whole day, every day, within a year. I have tried this numerous times, and always failed. It has taken me thirty years or so to quit P and MO, I don't want it to take the same amount of time to quit smoking. I am still competing with myself. I know the reality of quitting an addiction is to just make the choice to drop it for good and stick to it.

Failure can make one lower one's expectations, or it can inspire one to do better. At the moment, I have lowered my expectations, I simply want to get through to the end of the year without smoking first thing every morning, I want to do better than eighteen consecutive days.

I have had for a long time a great failure in consolidating successes. As soon as I succeed a little bit, I want to do more, and then when I fail, I crash, losing the initial successes in the process.

I don't know why this is, or how to go about making sure that I consolidate successes, whether it is something to do with never being satisfied with myself or something else.

I am succeeding at leaving P and MO abuse in the past, I am succeeding, for the most part, in staying sane. Not smoking first thing in the morning for the rest of my life is a very small thing to succeed at next and I will do it.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 14, 2019, 04:42:20 AM
So I am thankful for every day I am P and MO free. I am thankful for all the things in my life that make my life meaningful. I am thankful for my friends and family and I am thankful for my sustenance.

I am on 25 days no P, 126 days no MO. I'm not smoking first thing in the morning, trying to beat my record of 18 consecutive days of that. I am staying sane.

I am succeeding.

Thank you.

Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 14, 2019, 05:28:12 PM
So I want to update briefly because I am in danger of taking a step back.

I had a set back that could be a potential trigger, namely, the lady I had been hoping to start a relationship with friendzoned me.

I never had any expectations other than to see what happened, but whilst there was still a potential for a relationship I was feeling positive and that I was making progress.

This has caused me to judge my progress. It is ok to judge things that have already happened, things in the past. It is not at all helpful to judge the future or the present in relation to the future. This is where I have fallen down so many times before.

Thinking about my progress relative to the aim of forming a long term relationship with a lady is not helpful. Thinking about how the past has impacted my ability to form such a relationship can be therapeutic and a helpful guide to doing things better, but it is not at all helpful to think about progress relative to failure or as yet unmet progress.

I know when I'm in danger of relapsing because I start thinking where I'll be when I get to a certain number of days relative to where I am now. The future is a mystery. This is why its best to take it one day at a time. Things may or may not get better when I reach a certain number of days, the only thing I can say for sure is that I will have reached that number of days.

I was P free for the whole of the beginning of the year until the end of March. In fact I was P free for six and a half months. I am only on day 25 going on 26. Before I was friendzoned I wasn't even thinking about whether I was making progress, I believed I was and that belief was carrying me through.

I need to keep that belief, to not tie my success to this failure. I have to think about having two separate aims, to leave P and MO in the past and to start a relationship with a lady. The two aims have been tied together for so long that I judge them both by each other. I need to stop this. I am succeeding at leaving P and MO in the past. Whether or not I succeed in forming a relationship with a lady is irrelevant to this.

There is no cause and effect, or at least cause and effect is subjective and to some extent arbitrary. This is evident by the posters on here who have had relationships or who are now in a relationship or married even. They have had a PMO addiction but that hasn't stopped them forming relationships. I cannot blame my PMO addiction solely for the reason I haven't been able to form a long term relationship in my life. The two are separate things.

I have not had a healthy relationship with P. I have not found it helpful to my life. I have wanted to avoid it for years. I am finally succeeding. That is all. Other people might be different.

Addressing the problem of forming a long term relationship with a lady is something else I want to do, not necessarily here. My success or failure with that should not impact my success with leaving P and MO in the past.

Success breeds success, failure breeds failure. I have said that I have had a problem with consolidating success in the past. I am succeeding. The very fact that I was in the position of potentially having a relationship, even if I was eventually friendzoned, is progress. The very fact that I am staying sane longer than ever before since I developed my condition is progress. I cannot allow failures to wipe out my successes and take me back to square one.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 15, 2019, 07:01:27 AM
So I am thankful for staying away from P and MO, thankful for my friends and family and thankful for all the support I get in life.

I am not smoking first thing in the morning. Today is day three of that. I want to beat my record of eighteen consecutive days.

I am thinking about this business of competition, in particular competing with oneself. Competing with one's past can be a useful way of progressing, perhaps the only way. Competing with one's future is setting oneself up to fail. One chooses the future, the moment one says that the future could be one way or the other, one is allowing oneself the possibility of failure.

I am thinking about this because I am thinking about my idea of just doing text searches for P, just searching for the text links and not clicking on them. Learning to be mindful in the midst of the temptation.

The reason I thought of doing this is because doing a text search was what led me to relapse last time after nine months without PMO. I am scared that I can't even search text and links without relapsing. My intention at the time hadn't been to look at P or PMO. I had been trying to write something about P and wanted to remember the name of someone involved in the so called industry. But the results and links that came up when I searched triggered me, and that made me think I needed to learn to be mindful and unreactive to reading such things.

I have already learnt to be mindul whilst looking at P. I can quite happily look at P without even thinking of MOing let alone doing it, and I have done this many times now.

I wanted to get to the same stage with text searches. Ideally nothing should trigger me.

On the other hand, though I have learned to be mindful with P, I then found it very hard to stop looking at P even without MOing. I'm still not sure what the attraction or hold of it was over me. I wasn't rewarding myself with orgasm, so I don't know why I kept going back. Perhaps it was just the tail end of the addiction.

Now I am thinking, why would I want to compete with myself over text searches. To compete to see how long I can go searching for text links without it leading to actually looking at P. That is just setting myself up for failure. I either choose to be mindful in such situations or don't.

Practice reassures us that we can repeat behaviour. As I said, the last time i relapsed after nine months was because I was unable to be mindful in the face of text triggers. Practicing being mindful in such situations would reassure me that it won't happen again. But the real thing is to make a firm choice.

I have also been thinking about something else I could do which is to just write the trigger words in my private offline diary every now and then. I really have an aversion to trigger words. I don't like writing them. They trigger something in me, anxiety and shame and urges to relapse.

Once again this might be just me trying to compete with myself again.

Letting time heal, means leaving things in the past, forgetting them. Making the firm choice to do this still seems to me to be the best option. I'm not sure.

I am still P and MO free. I am still not smoking first thing in the morning. I am still succeeding.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 16, 2019, 04:11:29 AM
So I'm thankful for my sanity, I'm thankful that I'm still P and MO free, I'm thankful for my friends and family and I'm thankful for all the support I get in life.

My paranoias have still been appearing in my dreams which makes not smoking first thing in the morning tough as I use cigarettes to relieve anxiety.

I have had a dysfunctional relationship with my dreams, seeing them as either omens or blurring with my waking life, so that what happens in my dreams continues into my waking world. Basically, I think it matters what I dream, I assign importance to them. I don't know how to get out of this cycle. My mother always says "a dream is just a dream". If they weren't so disturbing I wouldn't mind, but I compare how I react to situations in dreams with how I react in waking life and imagine what would happen if the dream scenario played out for real.

I recently read a review of a study conducted by the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology which concluded "New research suggests that people who have the healthiest personalities rank low in neuroticism, high in openness to new experiences, and low in their tendency to fantasize."

Obviously they have defined what a healthy personality is, and this is somewhat subjective, but according to their criteria, I am the opposite of a healthy personality. I am high on neuroticism and have a high tendency to fantasize and even being open to new experiences, whilst I like to think I am, in reality I am very conservative.

What I wanted to talk about was the high tendency to fantasize. Apparently some people do it so dysfunctionally that at least a few psychiatrists want to classify such activity as a pathology which they call "maladaptive daydreaming". Reading about it made me think I was on the spectrum, though not as bad as the patients sited.

On the other hand, daydreaming, fantasizing, is a normal part of life, with everybody spending at least some time doing it every day. But as the research quoted above suggests, people with the healthiest personalities do it the least.

I don't know the connection between fantasizing and vivid dreams. I do know that my tendency to fantasize gets in the way of me actually achieving things. Why do things in real life when you can fantasize about having done them and being more successful at them than one could be in real life as well.

The point about so called "maladaptive daydreaming" is that it is addictive, that it can light up the reward centre of the brain as much as any other addiction. If one is getting abnormally high levels of reward stimulus from fantasizing then this might overshadow the reward stimulus from real life activities.

Whether or not it's a pathology or should be classified as one is highly subjective. Indeed most clinicians admit that the classifications of mental disorders are more based on fashion than science.

I am wondering how my tendency to over fantasize relates to my experiences with PMO addiction. It seems to me that over daydreaming led me down the path of PMO abuse in the first place.

As I said, daydreaming is natural, and so called "maladaptive daydreaming" is not an officially recognised mental disorder. However some clinicians are pushing for it to be recognised.

I have recently been trying to spend less time fantasizing, especially with regards to where I see myself in the future, and I think this has helped. It has meant that I have lowered my expectations of myself a lot, but since these were always fantasies anyway, it has allowed me to set more realistic goals.

Another question is to what extent fantasy and so called healthy personalities relate to genius. If you look at so called geniuses, a lot of them had what could be classified as dysfunctional personalities to some extent. This just goes to show the danger of pathologizing every day behaviour.

As I have said, some people look at porn regularly and suffer no dysfunction compared to those of us here. How we cope with life is personal and subjective and what we see as a dysfunction could even be seen as a strength by others.

I am perhaps guilty of falling into the trap of seeing everything I do as wrong or failing in some way. Even this last statement is an example of this.

I am succeeding at leaving P and MO in the past. My life's ambition has practically been reduced to this. All I am left with is fantasy about how my life could be better.

I need to start taking steps to build a more functional life, one that is grounded in reality. On the other hand, though progress is slow, I am in danger of taking the great progress I have made for granted. I have been suffering from paranoid schizophrenia for the past twenty years or so and P and MO addiction for even longer. I am not out of the woods yet, but I have made great strides this year. I have three priorities for the year ahead. Stay sane, leave P and MO in the past, and quit smoking. If I achieve these things I will be happy.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 17, 2019, 05:55:31 AM
So four weeks no P, almost 130 days no MO and no smoking first thing in the morning.

I'm thankful for my progress and thankful for all the support I am getting.

One of the pieces of feedback I regularly get back from dates I go on is that there was no "romantic chemistry". Often I quite like the lady and felt like we had a nice conversation and would be happy to meet them again. However, I guess more experienced people are looking for some spark that tells them "this is the one".

The lack of "romantic chemistry" makes me feel like I am doing something wrong, but I am wondering if this attitude is part of the problem in itself.

I think over the years of PMO abuse, I have developed an unrealistic view of sexual relations, one devoid of romance. I tend to think of sex very matter of factly, like it is just another activity that one could potentially do with anyone as long as they consented.

I don't really know what romance is. I know one component is intimacy, but I can be quite intimate about myself in conversation, which is one of the reasons I tend to have good conversations. However I'm rarely intimate about how I feel sexually and more than that I still carry a lot of shame about my past PMO abuse and feelings of inadequacy about the situation I am in owing to my condition.

One of the things I have been thinking about is eye contact. This is perhaps one of the most intimate things you can do as it feels like sharing your whole being. I find I cannot maintain eye contact with a lady when the context is forming a sexual relationship owing to all the shame and inadequacy I feel.

I don't know what to do about this, if indeed I need to do anything at all. I'm sure being able to hold eye contact would make a big difference to forming "romantic chemistry", but trying to force myself to hold eye contact kills the emotional expression.

Forgiving myself more, allowing more time without P and MO to heal, and learning to accept and feel comfortable with who I am are probably the best things to do.

I'm not beating myself up about this. I'm not desperate for a sexual relationship. I can quite happily go without sex and am reasonably happy with my own company most of the time. I do have friends and family who I can turn to when I'm lonely as well, for which I am thankful.

The only thing is that I don't want to reach a stage in my life where I regret never having formed a romantic relationship and it does seem like time is running out for me, or at least moving on.

My priorities remain the same, stay sane, leave P and MO in the past, and stop smoking.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on October 17, 2019, 12:17:50 PM
People overemphasise the "chemistry" angle when talking about potential relationships. A lot of it is not about some magical force that you have no control over. A lot of it is about the avoidance of certain key warning triggers that cause people to retreat. Here's a few:

Awkward silence moments: Early-stage dating is very sensitive to these. People are often monitoring for confirmation of compatibility by judging how much they have to take about. Any awkward silences where both parties are stuck for words will often trigger a panic response "oh no, this is getting hard, maybe we aren't clicking". It's quite silly really because the pressure on the occasion to "work out" naturally drives this tension to that conclusion. Even when a date has been largely full of discussion, more than a few awkward moments and this can turn the whole thing in a different direction. Also important to note is that one person might think a date went perfectly and that there were no awkward moments, while the other thinks it was the opposite and was full of them. It depends on their level of sensitivity to silent moments and how they interpret them.

Talk of living with one's parents: some people are perfectly fine with unusual living circumstances, but the majority aren't. Some are fine with it themselves, but then when they go reporting on their date with their friends, their friends will turn their thoughts to worries about why it might not work out. I've seen that happen more times than I can remember. Friends are often the worst thing for a prospective relationship because they often get a lot of pleasure about being the wise, objective counsel - which, of course, they aren't due to their own ego involvement. You can't control this though. But just know that any person you date is contending with the assumptions made around living at home with family - either within themselves or in discussions with people they know.

Controversial topics: sometimes it's better to ease into your true feelings on politics, religion, mental health etc. when you have established a rapport that feels very safe. People are hypersensitive to everything when evaluating a new person for relationship suitability. They are looking for reasons they might feel unsafe in a relationship with you. Even though most topics will not represent a real danger to them if introduced later, sometimes raising them too early will have a frightening effect and change the course of a relationship.

I don't say this to imply that you should be fake and disingenuous about who you are, but you need to know that it's a lot to do with how skilled you are about keeping a flow, ease, and keeping a safe, fun vibe going in the early stages of dating. Some people are better at this than others. That's why some people are so much more successful than others at the dating game and why some people have 100's of sexual partners in their history and others have zero and feel like it's completely inscrutable and mysterious, yet biased against them. Some people are more intense than others and they have to make a judgement call about whether to just accept that and become resilient about being rejected, or they have to learn how to play the game and go through that initial groundwork or engendering safety and security into the relationship before revealing more about their nature. Both approaches have some validity.

I think, having had a limited dating history, you probably aren't as attuned to these factors as you could be. You are also a very keen and enquiring mind who is not afraid to confront controversy. This means you might be triggering warning signals in any or all of these areas. It's something to keep in mind as you evaluate the whole "chemistry" angle because most people are reaching conclusions on these areas on an unconscious level and they might only be able to summarise it as "chemistry" or "no-chemistry". It's a strange one - people are happy to bypass a lot of critical thinking and analysis so they can rely on unconscious processing that results in a binary conclusion. It's the culture many of us are born into - the romantic fantasy that love works for unknowable, mysterious reasons. In reality it's about needs being met and most of them are perfectly rational and analysable. We just kid ourselves that we are part of a magical world for a while. After a while of dating though, most people know why it is or isn't working and where the compatibility or incompatibility lies.

Try no to obsess over this though. The main message I'm trying to give you here is that your main objective in early stage dating is to make it a safe place to continue the discussion. Try not to rock the boat or induce concern early on. You need this skill so that you can get to the next phase of working out your actual compatibility. If you've ever heard the term "gift of the gab" with respect to people who can talk effortlessly to people and make connections - this is what that is: the ability to make people feel safe while you explore your compatibility.

Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 18, 2019, 05:04:10 AM
Thanks as ever Malando :) I really value your input,

Your use of the word "safe" made me cringe a bit as I'm constantly worried about perceptions of my condition, I'm not dangerous, but I understand what you're trying to say.

I think if I do any of the things you say are pitfalls, it is probably talking about controversial subjects. I don't mean to, I'm aware that it is a pitfall, but at the same time certain things seem to come up naturally in conversation given my condition, and I actually think with regards to feeling safe it is best to be open and honest about what you think.

As a result I don't think any of the dates I have been have felt unsafe, just that we are not compatible, given the attributes of my life. In fact the last date I went on, we agreed to meet again, and then I texted afterwards to say that I didn't feel like the lady in question had what it took to relate to my condition in a way that met my needs, so we ended it there. We had talked a bit about my condition, which I know you say is a pitfall, but is really necessary for me. Perhaps I should have sugar coated it more and brushed it off, I am after all trying to leave it in the past. However, I wanted to see whether we were compatible too.

I'm not in a position yet to be a "new me" where my condition is firmly in the past, my life still revolves around it, even though I'm largely symptom free at the moment. This is why I say my priority is to stay sane. I'm not that bothered by rejection, I take it all as a learning experience. The only thing I'm slightly conscious of is that I'm getting older and don't want to be in a situation some years from now where I regret not having not been able to form a long term relationship with somebody, which is why I keep trying.

I think however much I don't want a shallow relationship, the porn addict part of me still views the purpose of dating as to lead to sex. I've only had sex twice in my life, and I still judge all my dates as failure because none of them have led to sex. Obviously the purpose of dating is to form a sexual relationship, but I think I am still confused about what that means, because I am still so uncomfortable with my sexual history.

This is why I was talking about eye contact and the shame I feel when I connect intimately on that level in a romantic way. The lady I actually did have sex with had just as troubled sexual history as me if not more, so I felt able to be intimate on that level. I don't want to start a conversation on a date talking about all my struggles with porn for fear of being judged or the other person not being able to relate in anyway. Besides I'd rather just forget this aspect of my history.

I am actually more comfortable talking about mental health than sex, because my condition is excusable in my mind whilst my sexual history is not. I don't know how to be intimate sexually. My thoughts around sex are all conditioned by objectification, all about my desires and unrealistic reactions rather than shared desires and feelings. On the other hand, in real life I care a lot about other people's feelings and desires, and the joy of sharing them. Objectification really is a denial of the other person's humanity, and I feel such shame for having those thoughts.

I think on a date I can create a safe space for exploring intellectual compatibility, but not one for exploring sexual or romanitc compatibity, indeed if anything it is I who feels unsafe with regards to exploring these latter things. I don't know if time will heal or whether I need to start bravely trying to be open and honest about my sexual feelings in conversation. My ex-girlfriend initiated a lot of sexual conversations on controversial subjects which made me feel safe to engage in expressing myself. As I said, I still worry about being judged and women not being able to relate.

So I think you are right about controversial subjects to some extent, but it depends how you approach them. If you are non-judgmental in your approach then you can really talk about anything, even express strong opinions, so long as you make the other person feel like you won't judge them for disagreeing. I know this to be the case, not just from my personal experience but from other people I know who have been political activists or more recently fervently into religion. They have been able to form relationships fully embracing their "controversial" thoughts and feelings.

I think the key to creating a safe environment in dating is to be non-judgmental and allow the other person to judge you. With me I think the real problem I have is not allowing the other person to judge me sexually by hiding my thoughts and feelings. This is why there never is any "romantic chemistry".

I think my sexual thoughts and feelings stemming from years of PMO abuse are controversial, which is why I avoid them, and also perhaps why I am more willing to engage in other controversial topics which I view as less taboo. As I said, you're right that controversial topics can be a turn off, but so long as you are non-judgmental and allow the other person to judge you, at the very least you can discuss them and leave on good terms.

I think, if I was brave enough, I might find that my thoughts and feelings aren't as controversial as I think they are. A lot of the fear comes from years of fighting myself, trying to suppress my sexuality and judging it wanting. I am perhapd my own worst enemy.

My priority remains to stay sane at the moment, dating is secondary. I hope I'll find somebody eventually, but ensuring my recovery is the most important thing for me.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 18, 2019, 01:33:53 PM
So today I M'd for the first time in 75 days. I didn't MO, I'm not MOing, I'm not looking at P, but I still M'd a little bit. I'd forgotten what the feeling felt like and I'm a bit worried now that it might have had the potential to lead to relapse. Two things are combined to make me worry, one is the addictive feeling and the other is the feeling of having failed yet again, even though I'm still P and MO free. I want to do at least six months hard mode, no P, no MO, not even any M. On the other hand learning to split the activities develops a feeling of being in control. Being able to look at P without MOing, look at P without any M, M without MOing, M without looking at P even MO without looking at P all help to give the feeling of choice in how you interact with the addiction which helps in making the final choice to quit. I want it all out of my life. Having to reset my hard mode counter is tough, so whilst I think there is something to be said from splitting the activities, it is no substitute from stopping completely. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 19, 2019, 11:13:05 AM
So first off I'm thankful that I am still free from P and MO. I'm thankful for my friends and family and thankful for all the support I'm getting. I'm thankful that I am maintaining my sanity and making progress towards a full recovery.

I wanted to qualify what I posted last. Of all the variations of combinations of P and MO, I think, other than PMO itself, P and M, or edging, is the worst, and I haven't been doing this. The idea I was trying to get at was separating P from MO, breaking the reward cycle. I'm not sure edging really achieves this. It is another level of control, seeing if you can control your orgasm, but it is not really escaping from the cycle of dopamine and P. I don't advise edging at all.

I also still think that the best solution is to make the choice to stop completely and stick to it. On the other hand, I have found that "weaning" myself off PMO by looking at P without MOing and MOing without looking at P has done a lot to help me. In two days time I will have PMOd only four times in sixteen months. I will also have managed a streak of six and a half months without P until the end of March this year and a streak of over four months without MO which is still ongoing. I am now on a month without P as well.

I want to do at least six months hard mode. As I said, I am now on a month without P or MO so that is sort of a month's hard mode so far, but I did M yesterday, and I want to cut that out as well.

I feel much more in control than I ever had and much of that is to do with barely having PMOd in the last sixteen months and the two long streaks of P and MO absitence respectively.

If I can now keep going beyond a month of no P or MO combined then I will feel even better.

My sanity is good, there have been some moments, but over all I am staying sane. The next thing I have to work on, besides quitting smoking, is my concentration which is somewhat hindered by the meds I'm on.

Overall, I'm pleased with the progress I'm making and believe it will continue.

Thank you.



Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 20, 2019, 03:58:03 AM
So I am thankful for every day I remain sane, thankful for my friends and family, thankful for being free from P and MO and thankful for all the support I get.

I want to achieve something more than just remaining sane and being P and MO free in the remaining couple of months of 2019.

Perhaps I am being too ambitious, these two things alone are major progress and I shouldn't take them for granted. However I am doing them successfully and would like to add to that success.

Beating my record of eighteen days not smoking in the morning would be a start, but recently I have been finding it hard to emotionally engage with stopping smoking. Intellectually I know it is the right thing to do for me, but I just haven't seemed to be able to emotionally commit.

I am on 31 days no P, 132 days no MO and though quite fragile still, I am basically staying sane.

I feel no shame associated with smoking, it doesn't trouble me. Indeed if it wasn't for all the propaganda about smoking being bad for you, I probably wouldn't be bothered at all. It vaguely annoys me that I'm so dependent on it, and I know that I could save a substantial amount of money by not smoking, but I don't feel emotionally hurt by my addiction to it.

All of this is justifying why I can't just make the decision to quit or at least abstain regularly, which actually is potentially harder. I have kept talking about it but not taking any action. I don't even know if writing about it helps, certainly not the way I have been writing about it. I often tell myself I have to give up smoking whilst lighting up at the same time. My words have just become hollow with regards to this.

From now on, I think, I'm only going to write about smoking with regards to successes. I don't seem to be doing a good job at motivating myself, finding excuses and moaning. This is something I've really made a conscious effort not to do with PMO. In fact this whole post has been way too self-indulgent with regards to smoking. I won't mention smoking again, except to document my positive progress.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 21, 2019, 03:54:56 AM
So I'm thankful for all the opportunities I have to learn, thankful for all the support I get, thankful for my friends and family and thankful that I'm still P and MO free.

The biggest achievement so far that I have made is keeping my sanity. I am still fragile, but I am doing better than ever since I first developed my condition some twenty odd years ago.

On top of this I'm doing well with staying away from MO and now P as well. It's hard not to think that there is a link between my condition and my addiction or neurosis.

Just achieving these two things is great progress and I am thankful for it, but I keep worrying about doing more. At the moment, I'm basically just counting days of progress, doing nothing with those days other than making sure than I stay sane and clean.

I'm doing a couple of evening classes in Taoist arts, martial and healing, once a week, and in some ways I am beginning to think that is enough for the moment. I've only just started the classes, I've done about three weeks so far, and in the past I have always dropped out of evening classes after only a few weeks, so sticking at these ones till the end of the year will also be an achievement.

The biggest challenges remain smoking and concentration. Indeed both of these things are the reason that I have always dropped out of evening classes in the past. They are also the reason I have never really been able to stick to routines of self study or do much more than hour a day, and even then, broken up into fifteen minute slots.

As I said, I am beginning to think that maybe I should just be consolidating the progress I am making at the moment, the days spent sane and clean, and the weekly evening classes, instead of pushing for more and more, which could lead to failure and take me back to square one.

I am doing better than ever in the most important things. The next steps of smoking cessation and improving my ability to concentrate will come, and indeed the evening classes are a start to addressing these.

I still want to beat my record for abstinance from smoking in the mornings, I still want to study in the day, I still want to prove I can work, perhaps by starting with voluntary work again. Right now though, the best thing is probably to make sure I don't loose what I've got.

I'm trying not to fantasize so much about what my future might be like if I did this or that. As I said in a previous post, studies have shown that people with the healthiest personalities, whatever that means, fantasize the least.

I think stating my gratitude for what I have at the beginning of each post is helping me to do this, focusing on what I have now, rather than fantasizing about what I could have.

It is only recently that I have recognised how much I had a tendency to fantasize and that it was unhealthy. Fantasy is one of the main reasons for feeling that one's life is worthless or wasted, as one compares one's reality with the fantasy and always finds it wanting. As I said, practicing gratitude for one's reality really helps to address this and focus on the present.

I still have issues surrounding sex and fantasy, still feel ashamed for my sexual fantasies, and still struggle to articulate them in confession. In many ways they have been like my other fantasies, expressing an ambition, but they have involved objectifying and doing things to other people, or rather imagining other people doing things to me. This taking fantasy ownership of other people's behaviour feels shameful to me and I am sorry that I had these fantasies. It is the difference between fantasizing about achieving mastery of oneself and fantasizing about achieving mastery of other people. Both are destructive but the latter seems much more morally wrong. As I said, I am sorry for having indulged in such mental behaviour.

So I am basically consolidating my progress at the moment, I will try and do more when it feels natural and appropriate.

Thank you.

Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 22, 2019, 03:12:32 AM
So I am thankful for all the support I am getting, thankful for my sanity, thankful for every day I am P and MO free, thankful for my friends and family and thankful for everything in life that sustains me.

I can't really think what to write today, but I'm a bit scared to stop writing as it is helping me focus on my recovery.

Perhaps I should take a break.

I can feel the sense of progress, even though I'm only doing a fraction of what I'd like to be doing. The most important things I am succeeding at.

Every day I wake up and feel the success of completing another day sane and clean.

I am doing my evening classes as well and as I said yesterday, this is probably enough for the moment.

I am thinking about the voluntary work I used to do in a charity shop and wondering if I could start that again. In fantasy land it seems like a good idea, giving me some sort of dignity, the ability to say I am not just wasting my time, and thus escape the judgment of being a parasite. In reality I know that I struggled to keep it up last time, largely because of smoking and concentration.

I'm trying to work out why I can pass the time doing nothing all day better than I can pass the time in a charity shop. In many ways the charity shop is actually more interesting, but I used to find myself counting the minutes till I could leave. I think this is largely because I chain smoke at home whilst doing nothing and I can't do that in the shop. But there are other reasons too. I am conscious of the other workers, not so much the customers, and I have to concentrate on varried tasks which interupt the flow of my thoughts. My thoughts aren't really interesting, but they are soothing. Smoking whilst daydreaming and reassuring myself mentally basically carries me through each day. Being conscious of the other workers and tasks brings me anxiety and stress which combined with being prohibited from smoking made the four hours for which I chose to work difficult to stick at. After a while this led to me having psychotic relapses. Once again I think over fantasizing is one of the key issues. I need to learn to be comfortable in a working environment. This really is the next challenge after remaining sane. Ineed the two are linked because really I need to be able to maintain my sanity whilst working if I am to become a functional and productive member of society again.

Last time I worked in a charity shop it was after a reasonable length of sanity, and it started pretty well, although from the word go, I was watching the clock. However I ended up having a psychotic relapse and had to drop out. It is one thing staying sane whilst doing nothing, it is another whilst having responsibilities.

I still think the biggest thing I could do to help myself in this regard would be to stop smoking. Two hours is about the maximum I can tollerate without smoking on a daily basis, forgetting sleep. In fact, I have often woken in the middle of the night and not been able to get back to sleep without a cigarette.

I said I wouldn't write about smoking again until I started to do something about it.

I think for the time being, if I can stick at the evening classes every week till the end of the year that will be something. They are not as demanding as the charity shop, less hours a week and more engaging, and yet still I've struggled to stick at evening classes for more than a few weeks or so in the past.

I cannot just jump from regular bouts of disruptive psychosis to a productive life just like that, however much I'd like to.

The main thing at the moment is that I am staying sane.

I've had about twenty years of this condition, I've done many things for short periods of time, including study and work, and always relapsed. This is the longest I've gone without relapsing, and I never want to relapse again. I don't see the point in starting work only to end up back in the mental hospital.

I am on 33 days without P, 134 days without MO.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 23, 2019, 02:21:45 PM
So I am thankful for all the progress I am making with staying sane and overcoming my addictions. I am thankful I have friends and family who love and care about me. I am thankful for everything that sustains me in life and causes me joy.

I am wondering about my urges, which I have had a few of recently. They do not reflect reality, but darker emotions relating to women exhibiting sexual power, objectifying men and discriminating between them. These are things that I unconsciously do to women, but don't want to as I know them to be wrong, so instead I project them on to fantasy images of women doing the these things to men. It is classic attempts to avoid dealing with your dark side through projection and fantasy. Acknowledging that I have this dark side is only the start, understanding why and where it comes from is the next step. Perhaps it is a part of male human nature to try to exhibit sexual power, objectify women and discriminate between them. Perhaps it is impossible not to have these feelings as a man to some extent. I don't know. If it is possible not to have them, then there must be some reason why I do. Some men express these feelings openly. Indeed I would even suggest that the more sexually confident men are the ones who express them openly. I on the other hand have tried to pretend I don't have these feelings and ended up projecting them on to fantasy images of women. This is avoidance and escapism, certainly not transcendence. I don't know which I'd rather do, express them or avoid them. I'd rather not have them at all as I don't equate them with love. I wonder if sexually confident men are even aware that they do these things, or whether it is totally unconscious, totally unquestioned. I can see that I am projecting with my urges, and I know that this is bad or at least shameful, but the alternative of actually expressing my real sexual feelings seems much worse as it would involve other people. Once again it is about allowing oneself to be judged. By projecting on to fantasy I am avoiding the judgment of others, and only really subject to my own judgments, at least so long as I keep it private. But these judgments eat away at me and are never positive because fundamentally I know I am projecting which is never good. If I actually expressed myself sexually, my preferences, my masculinity, I would have to open myself up to being judged by others, I would have to open myself up to rejection. My urges really come from cowardice. I am not accepting that I am a sexual being, and finding the most cowardly way to engage with what that means. Fantasy never rejects, even if I fantasize about women rejecting men. The more I think about it the more I realise it comes down to a fear of rejection and being judged. Yet the irony is that by engaging in PMO I increase the reasons to be rejected and judged wanting, at least in my mind. I still think objectification is wrong. Indeed even though sexually confident men might objectify regularly, I don't think lasting relationships can be based on objectification. The trophy wife idea usually ends in divorce I think. Perhaps a better word than sexually confident, is sexually extrovert. There is a difference between being a great lover and having a lot of sex. I am definitely sexually introvert. I don't know what I'm writing really, just flowing thoughts and ideas. The dark side of me is definitely not love, but perhaps it has a role to play in the mating game which science says is about survival of the fittest. You can never really escape competition, even if you are only competing with yourself. I don't know if avoiding competition is cowardice. It is good to pick one's battles wisely. Competition and discrimination go hand in hand, winning or losing is a form of objectification. But I still believe in love without these things, unconditional love. Am I fooling myself? I think I am looking at life too rigidly through the lens of logic. Darwin didn't explain evolution, he reduced it to a very crude logical model that doesn't express the true mystery of how life unfolds. Yes if you force life into the constraints of the model it tends to behave in that way, but there is so much more to life than these constraints. I am almost on week 5 of no P and three eighths of a year no MO. I am hoping that my urges will go away as I seek to deconstruct them and transcend them. Accepting that I am a sexually competitive being might be the first step towards this. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 24, 2019, 05:49:15 AM
So I am thankful for my ongoing sanity, I am thankful that I am still P and MO free, I am thankful for the love and support of my friends and family and I am thankful for everything that sustains me.

I am on five weeks no P, 136 days no MO, and one day not smoking first thing in the morning.

I'm still wondering about my projecting of things that I do that I don't want to accept. I am caught up in rigid reasoning with regards to the games of attraction and mating. For example, sometimes I wonder about how you "choose" a mate. Whenever I think of that I then think but if I am to choose I must discriminate, and if I must discriminate I must objectify, and I don't want to do either of those things. In reality you don't really "choose a mate", choose a "thing", you choose to engage and see what happens. It is not like buying something at the shops. It is an engagement that can amplify in intensity or peter out depending on the reactions of the other person. It is an interaction. Choosing to interact is only the first step and has little bearing on the outcome. I think the false ideas I have about "choice of mate" stem from my PMO abuse, because with this, you do litterally choose and consume.

I wrote yesterday about sexually confident or extrovert men. I think the issue is that I couldn't see how they could "choose sex" without displaying sexual power, objectifying and discriminating. In fact, as I said, they don't "choose sex", they choose to interact. There is a big difference.

You fall into attraction, fall in love, you don't choose attraction or your lover. It is an allowing of oneself to express ones feelings in an interaction. Once you start to express them to someone else, the process continues of its own natural momentum, either to a union or parting of ways.

My last post really illustrates how confused my thinking has become as a result of PMO abuse. I correctly identified that I was projecting with my urges. I correctly identified the dark side of my sexuality. But I incorrectly put the origin of that on natural sexual impulses.

So this leaves me with a question. Where does the dark side of my sexuality come from? I think it comes from desires of control, of being able to control outcomes, of being able to control outcomes of interactions, of being able to control other people.

Wanting to control other people is certainly a dark side of the human psyche. I am not sure how I first developed it. Maybe from childhood when people behaved in ways towards me I did not want, like punishing me or bullying me.

You can never control other people. I have said this before. Either you are one with another person, in which case your choices are the same, or you can offer another person choices, sometimes choices which they can't refuse, which is a form of control, but at the end of the day, how they react is always their chocie.

I worry about discriminating between women based on objectification. I worry about objectifying women. Both discrimination and objectification are a big part of how one controls one's life, restricts one's choices, so that one can actually make a judgment of what is the best way to proceed.

I have said there is a difference between objectification and appreciation. It is a difference of recognition of ownership. In the former one seeks to take ownership through objectification, in the latter one recognises ownership through appreciation.

Some people say that we do not own anything. That everything belongs to God. We interact with everything, and everything has a degree of autonomy. The world is composed of events not things.

This is another reason why gratitude is helpful.

Choice is beyond logic, or rather relative to logic. Choice is not a logical operation, it is something we do in relation to logical constructs. The logic provides the parameters, the choice is an act of free-will with no finite origin.

I have been observing people making choices and trying to find the logical imperitive that led them to their outcomes. This is a great fallacy, a great stupidity, a great lack of understanding about the nature of life.

Logic does not dictate choice, it provides the set of perceived options.

Without logic, all options are available, but we always have some logic defining our perception at some level, we cannot choose something relative to nothing.

Thus we are always discriminating in some way. How we discriminate is itself a choice relative to deeper forms of discrimination.

I have tried to do away with logic and discrimination altogether, which really amounts to doing away with perception. It is impossible.

I'm not sure where this confusion comes from, perhaps with being told that certain perceptions are wrong.

Right and wrong are themselves a form of perception.

I have tried to be free, without realising that I have always been free. I have tried to be able to choose whatever I want, without realising that choice requires options which are perceived contstraints.

Freedom without constraints is no freedom at all as one has no options to choose from and so cannot choose, cannot exhert will.

The only time such freedom exists is in death.

Life is truly mysterious in that it can never be fully described logically. There is never only one option. We always have choice. We have choice over everything, but never all at once.

This is the only way life can be.

Thank you.


Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on October 24, 2019, 08:29:26 AM
Interesting thoughts, Georgos. I don't have anything to say at this point, but it's interesting to consider the points you make.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 26, 2019, 06:09:36 AM
So I am thankful for each new day symptom free and every day P and MO free. I am thankful for my friends and family and the love and support they give me. I am thankful for all the things in the world that give me the opportunity to learn and love and I am thankful for my ongoing progress.

Yesterday I was unable to smoke for most of the day owing to circumstances and I developed some quite bad schizophrenic symptoms. As a result I only managed to sleep for four hours and have been stilling feeling shaky.

I need to watch this and refocus. In the past, after schizophrenic symptoms I have had the tendency to relapse PMO.

I am on day 37 no P and day 138 no MO.

My next evening class is in three days time.

Other than that, there is not much that I have scheduled.

The priority is my sanity.

I need to rest today, catch up on sleep, and not get distracted by paranoid thoughts.

Thank you.

p.s. thank you as ever malando for your support and encouragement :)
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 27, 2019, 04:58:33 AM
So I am thankful that I am able to sleep at night, thankful for my sanity and thankful for all the days that I am P and MO free. I am thankful for my friends and family, thankful for all the love and support I get and thankful for all the things in the world that support and nourish me.

I had a good sleep last night and my sanity has pretty much returned, though I still have a few thoughts related to my psychosis.

I am on day 38 no P, day 139 no MO so almost 20 weeks no MO.

One of the roots of my paranoia is definitely my shame at my past PMO abuse. I think people are reading my thoughts or past thoughts and judging them. At least when I express them, I have control over how they are represented, but when through some sort of psychic connection I perceive other people reading my thoughts and expressing them, I have no control and I fear the outcome.

I am still hoping time will heal, but when psychosis starts, the past eats away at me.

Porn and sex are not the only things that I get paranoid about, identity politics is also a big part, and this is why my looking at so called "interracial" porn is the worst thing I did in my mind.

I still don't understand what goes on in psychosis. The apparent psychic connections seem very real and I have no idea of the mechanism. On the other hand they could just be coincidences and synchronicities with no mechanism of connection other than attracting an environment that matches one's internal being.

Trying to understand what I experience in psychosis is a dangerous habit, as it actually makes me more inclined to experience the symptoms again in order to test my theories and gain more data. My first psychiatrist warned me against this some twenty years ago when I first broke down: "don't try to understand it", she said. I should have taken that more to heart.

Ignoring all the triggers and experiences related to PMO and psychosis is the best way forward, focusing on daily peace of mind, and seems to be working. As I have said many times, the next step is becoming productive again.

At present, writing here is one of the most productive things I do, in the sense that I am actually producing something, though whether it has any worth I don't know.

Completing the first term of my evening classes which finish in December will be another achievement.

I'm not sure how helpful it has been this last week to feel that I am doing enough. Focusing on trying to do more each day, even if I repeatedly fail, has given me purpose. But the failures have also been eating away at me, so practicing contentment through acceptance and gratitude seems important.

One can try and do more whilst being content with the present, and I think this is the mentality I need to foster next.

I'm not sure exactly how to do this but I think it comes from having a philosophy of abundance rather than scarcity. How this fits with politics of poverty and environment I don't know.

I still have a very immature relationship with politics. From an early age I thought politics was about helping other people which is why I identified with the political Left. It was not completely altruistic, I believed that if you helped other people they would recipricate and treat you well. I am now in a situation where I have to help myself. This is the basis of Right wing politics, but I am still attached to the Left. The origins of Left wing politics are actually distinct from my naive attachments to it. They were about people who needed to help themselves, joining together to help themselves collectively. This is what we are doing here.

As a child I didn't feel I needed to help myself, I felt that I needed to help other people so that they would help me. Politics is really about collectively helping oneselves and identifying those who share one's needs. Thus the distinction between Right and Left disolves. In reality, the only difference between Right and Left is the distinction of ownership of capital, which forms two competing groups, those who own capital and those who don't, the bosses and the workers.The middle classes represent the overlap of the two, and the entire spectrum is dynamic as are political leanings.

Anyway, as I said, I need to help myself. Only I can recover from my condition and addictions. Only I can make the choices I need to make to improve my life. If we can collectively make the same choices then that is stronger.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on October 27, 2019, 08:55:50 AM
As a child I didn't feel I needed to help myself, I felt that I needed to help other people so that they would help me. Politics is really about collectively helping oneselves and identifying those who share one's needs. Thus the distinction between Right and Left disolves. In reality, the only difference between Right and Left is the distinction of ownership of capital, which forms two competing groups, those who own capital and those who don't, the bosses and the workers.The middle classes represent the overlap of the two, and the entire spectrum is dynamic as are political leanings.

I agree, and that's why I can't bring myself to vote for the right. If the principal difference between the two sides is the influence and ownership of capital, I can only vote for the side that is more likely to share some of it, rather than those who are tasked to keep it in the hands of the rich. The difference in reality is small, but even if public spending is only 5% higher on the left, than on the right, that's still something - much as this subtle distinction might disappoint people with high ideals.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 28, 2019, 02:10:22 AM
Quote
I agree, and that's why I can't bring myself to vote for the right. If the principal difference between the two sides is the influence and ownership of capital, I can only vote for the side that is more likely to share some of it, rather than those who are tasked to keep it in the hands of the rich. The difference in reality is small, but even if public spending is only 5% higher on the left, than on the right, that's still something - much as this subtle distinction might disappoint people with high ideals.
Yes, Malando, in fact on a broader sense, Right Wing politics is the defence of privilege, however the system is dynamic, and we all have some privileges however minor, one can be poor and free for example.

I'm still trying to work out how this relates to the philosophy of abundance as opposed to scarcity. I don't think these two philosophies split neatly into Left and Right, but on the other hand I don't think Left and Right split neatly into them either.

The world is not linearly ordered. I know this, yet I still get confused.

I am on week 20 no MO, 39 days no P.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 29, 2019, 04:39:54 AM
So I'm thankful for all the good nights sleeps without smoking I'm getting waking up at a reasonable time. I'm thankful for my mind and body. I'm thankful for my friends and family. I'm thankful for all the things that sustain and nourish me. I'm thankful for my sanity and I'm thankful that I am still P and MO free.

I had some more psychotic symptoms yesterday. I cannot afford to let my progress slip. I am making so much progress. I'm not really sure what the trigger was other than disrupting my smoking intake on Friday and then not getting enough sleep. I feel better now.

My sanity remains my number one priority, though abstaining from P and MO contribute to keeping me sane so are intertwined.

I am on day 40 no P, day 141 no MO.

I have been thinking how P has made me search for perfection in a potential girlfriend. Whenever I see a woman I am attracted to I immediately think there might be somebody else who is better, that she is probably not the one, and clam up. At the other extreme, with dating websites, I just go out with anybody who shows an interest, with no discernment at all. I really don't know what the correct balance is, and I blame this on past P abuse.

I really just want to find somebody who is the one for me, but I can't imagine who that might be. There are so many different bodies I am attracted to, so many different personalities. The perfect person for me is beyond my imagination.

As Malando has said many times, I think, you kind of fall into a relationship rather than form it by design. But there must be some steps that one takes to do that, that I haven't been doing, or some changes to my mentality that I need to make.

I think part of the problem is searching for perfection without any idea of what perfection is. Indeed, in reality nobody is perfect. It is not a question of settling for just anybody, that is just as impossible, there has to be a connection and chemistry for you to form a relationship. The flip side of searching for perfection is probably fear of committing to somebody who isn't perfect. Fear of commitment is said to be one of the biggest turn offs for women.

Anyway, I'm just happy that I'm P and MO free now, long may it continue.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on October 30, 2019, 03:46:30 AM
So I'm thankful for my evening classes, thankful for my friends and family and thankful that I am having good nights sleep cigarette free. I'm thankful that I am free from P and MO and I'm thankful for all the support and nourishment I am getting.

I've done half the first term of my evening classes now. Always before the class I have thought about just missing them, but am forcing myself to go and they are enjoyable. In fact they're so good I don't know why I think about skipping them.

I had more psychotic symptoms last night and some this morning. I am sleeping better but still not enough. The General Election is yet another potential trigger.

For years I have tried to understand my psychosis. I have a much better grasp of it now, but it is still hard to cope with.

Recognising that everything is a choice has helped, but I still have so much ego attachments.

I cannot function whilst psychotic, not at all. At best I can just be mindful and passive, at worst I interact with my psychotic projections.

The psychotic projections come from my ego. We all project our interpretation of the world on to the world, which includes our ideas about the past, present and future. When these become confused and threatening, as in my psychosis, I have experienced terrible things.

So far I am managing to be relatively mindful in the midst of confusion and threats, but it has been hard to keep up.

For years I wanted a revolution because I thought it was the only way to bring justice to the suffering. Now I realise that I am actually very conservative with a small c. I still hate seeing people suffer, but I have developed different views on the subject of justice.

I remember a Marxist economist telling me that capitalist exploitation was not "stealing", I still don't know how this sits with the statement "property is theft", which actually originated with Proudhon not Marx.

The idea of justice is a judgment of right and wrong, that some people have been and are being wronged and by other people. I'm not sure I believe in right and wrong anymore and inequality in some form is an inescapable fact of life.

As I said in a previous post, politics is really about identifying those who would benefit from making the same choices as you and working with them. With regards to capital, the majority can never benefit from making the same choices as the rich because the market is necessarily unequal and competative. The rich will always be a minority. This is why state ownership has been proposed in the past, getting rid of the distinction of rich and poor. However new classes emerge within the state. As I said, inequality is an inescapable fact of life. The world is always democratic in some way, always the sum total of people's choices in a rigged election. Whether the election is rigged by law or capital, it is still democracy. Thus America claims to be democratic, the Soviets claimed to be democratic and Haile Selassie saw no difference between democracies and monarchies. In fact it is a mathemtical fact, known as Arrow's Theorem, that no electoral system can be perfect. Thus every form of democracy is rigged in some way, as I said.

My political attachments are confused because I don't know where I stand. I cannot identify those who would benefit in making the same choices as me and work with them, at least not on a mass scale. My friends and family have made different choices and continue to make different choices. At best I can just socialize with them. My peers are all mentally ill and I cannot work with them.

How I will get out of this position, stop being mentally ill, and start to be able to work with other people productively, I don't know.

At the moment, writing here is the most productive thing I do each day.

I am on day 41 no P, day 142 no MO.

Thank you.


Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 02, 2019, 09:39:08 AM
So I am returning to normality from a period in between worlds. I am staying sane and living comfortably.

I need to get a bigger flat, or at least one on my own.

Sharing accomodation is tiresome and has been keeping me up at night.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 03, 2019, 02:13:15 PM
So I used to smoke marijuana from the age of 14. After I had my breakdown I started smoking tobacco on its own.

I almost gave up today but still am smoking.

I am returning to normality and drinking plenty of water.

Gracias.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on November 22, 2019, 07:10:08 AM
So I had a serious psychotic relapse the past three weeks and haven't been posting, it is over now, thankfully.

I am on day 64 no P, day 165 no MO.

I experienced a lot during my psychosis, some of it interesting other parts terrifying. I don't want to revisit most of it and I can certainly do without psychosis in my life.

Once again I am thinking about where I am going in life. I had the longest spell of sanity in over twenty years, only to end in three weeks of psychosis again. I did next to nothing during that spell, except keep this journal.

A life of doing virtually nothing followed by periods of extreme altered perception is not what I really want, but then I don't know what I really want.

I still fantasize about being good at things, but always counter that by asking myself what's the point.

I am surviving for now as I am, doing nothing with bouts of psychosis. I am trying not to judge, the grass is always greener.

I am not really motivated by sex or money or any of the usual incentives, in fact I am not motivated by anything except a thirst for understanding.

I barely look after myself and worry a little about what will happen if I find myself on my own.

We will see what happens. I have experienced about ten different realities in the past three weeks, and I still feel that the slow repetitive life of leisure is the most healthy.

I know that I am very privileged to be able to spend so much time doing nothing, on the other hand I have suffered immensely from my condition over the years, and I feel ashamed that I am not able to contribute more.

My condition is bio-chemical, it stops me from working on one thing for more than a few minutes when I'm sane and takes me places that are completely dysfunctional when I'm not.

I want to recover so I can contribute more than just philosophy or words. I cannot even contribute mathematics instructions at the moment, despite years of training.

Having returned to sanity now, I once again am thinking about taking steps to increase my contribution, but largely this involves fantasizing about studying more, which is not really contributing anything.

I am thankful that I am still P and MO free and will make it to the end of the year clean.

I believe I have left this terrible addiction behind me now.

I still have many years ahead.

I should be thankful that I lasted so long with my sanity.

Life progresses, whichever way you look at it.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 05, 2019, 02:01:44 PM
So often after a psychotic relapse I have returned to P or PMO and now that I am pretty much sane again I have been having urges, quite serious urges. On top of this I am nearing two milestones, six months no MO and three months no P. Nearing milestones has also been a trigger in the past as I have had a tendency to sabotage my recovery just before I make it to my targets.

I have just been reading another text on how MO is healthy and pleasurable, though it doesn't mention P. Once again I wonder where my neurosis on PMO comes from. Smoking marijuana in my early teens probably acted to bring about the neurosis to some extent. Marijuana is notorious for making people paranoid. But my neurosis started before then.

I'm not really interested in psycho-analysing it any more. I have a moral compass that says that P is wrong, but I am wondering if I am not denying myself pleasure needlessly by not MOing. On the other hand I know that after MO I always feel terrible. P is wrong because of how the industry treats its workers and the false ideas it promotes about sex. MO is wrong for me because of how it makes me feel afterwards. Yet I can't help feeling that even sex is wrong for me.

I have a neurosis with regards to O and the associations I have built up around it. I am a paranoid schizophrenic. I don't think psycho-analysis can help much more at the moment, but taking a break from MO and stopping P completely can.

Reading about how almost all males MO and it is a natural part of growing up helps me to forgive myself and feel normal. But my reaction to MO reminds me that I am not normal. I don't know where this neurosis comes from and what I can do about it other than take a break.

I have been counting days for the past thirty odd years. It is only since joining this forum that I have started making it into the hundreds. Though there are many other people on this forum counting days, it does seem to me to be a neurotic pass time, an obsession with controlling one's urges rather than letting them play out naturally.

Being almost six months free of MO and three months free of P I am convinced that life is better. This despite the last month or so of psychosis. In fact I have just had the longest period of sanity I have had in almost twenty years.

I am getting better. It is probably best not to think about things too much.

I don't know what I am searching for, I have only had sex twice in my life, but that has ceased to bother me. I can live without P and MO, indeed as I said, life is better without them. As far as sex goes I don't know, but I have lived without it so far, so it doesn't really make much difference. I am in no position to start a family and I am realising that many people don't start families in life and this is still normal.

I just want to be grateful for the things I have and happy with myself, I also want to be judged a good person by other people, whatever that means.

Normality doesn't exist, we are all unique. I have had urges this past week, following my gradual recovery from a psychotic episode and in the approach to two milestones. I can ignore them.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 06, 2019, 12:50:11 PM
So I'm not having any urges anymore, but I am still worried at the back of my mind that I could be in danger of relapse, having just had another psychotic episode and approaching two of my targets.

I want to do at least a year of no MO and stop P for good.

I am on 179 days no MO and 78 days no P.

Coming back down to earth after my psychotic episode, I feel like I want to start again immediately where I left off with regards to personal development.

However I still need to rest.

I am not even thinking about trying to enter into a romantic relationship at the moment and there are no opportunities on the horizon.

I messed up a couple of opportunities whilst relapsing, and it made me realise that if I am ever going to get into a relationship I really need someone who can cope with my psychotic episodes.

Asking somebody to do this early in a relationship is probably not going to work unless they already have some experience of psychosis.

Anyway, as I said, I'm not really trying to start a relationship at the moment with anybody.

I want to see if I can do better than last time with regards to maintaining sanity. Last year was better than most and this year was the best in nearly twenty years. I will recover fully eventually.

I don't know what to do other than avoid triggers. I need to develop a better coping mechanism when symptoms do occur.

I've tried to find some books on the common symptoms that I tend to have, but couldn't find any. Indeed the only book on recovery from schizophrenia that I could find was someone who became a born again Christian.

I actually think that my recent engagement with Christianity was a bit  of a trigger, as Malando warned me, though there was an element of healing crisis with regards to overcoming P. Also there were other more obvious triggers this time, like the sudden death of one of my friends.

At any rate, I'm staying away from the Church for the time being.

I'm surprised there aren't more books on overcoming schizophrenia. Perhaps it really is a lifelong condition that nobody recovers from, but I keep hearing of people who have. I want to know their experiences, how they managed to transcend the diagnosis and dysfunction.

Despite my recent psychotic episode, I'm doing better than ever and I am grateful for that.

I need to focus on the positive and move forward.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on December 06, 2019, 05:54:59 PM
Hi Georgos, I just want to say that I have been very impressed with your progress over the last year. Schizophrenia is not an easy thing to manage and contain - I've seen that within my own family. You have done a remarkable job to reduce your psychotic episodes to the degree that you have. That is through application of thought and effort. Alongside that, you have also made great progress in the PMO realm. So I just wanted to congratulate you on all that. I know the journey is not over, but it's good to take a moment to enjoy what you have accomplished once in a while.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 07, 2019, 06:55:05 AM
As always, thank you for your words of support Malando,

I've been without a computer for the past few weeks and have just got it up and working again and as a result temptation has reappeared.

On top of this I have been Ming a little which has been feeding the urges.

I don't think psycho-analysing my fantasies would be a good idea at the moment. The only real issue I have with them is that they are tied up with identity politics and objectification.

There is something about deriving pleasure from engaging with things that we think are wrong that is very compelling. I have often heard it said that there are no rights or wrongs. At the very least everything is relative. However, I have come to realise that this is an absolutist position. In reality we always have a filter or topology through which we perceive distinct things, and this includes right and wrong. The topology may be arbitrary, we may be able to change our filter so we perceive things differently, but we always perceive some distinction of right and wrong.

Bringing more things into the realm of right action, refining the topology or filter so more is considered just, is where the compulsion comes from. Things are not absolutely right or wrong, but things are right or wrong to us, both individually and collectively. Pleasure binds us to things, but it doesn't make them right or wrong. By binding ourselves through pleasure to wrong things we hope to make them right.

I think the idea of right and wrong goes beyond polar opposites. There is something more, a further qualification, that distinguishes right from wrong. I intuitively know what it is, but I can't put it into words. As I said, through application of pleasure, we seek to expand what is right. To master wrongs so that we can call them right, in much the same way as violence is wrong, but martial arts is right. However, as I can't really put the distinction into words, I certainly can't say how wrongs become right through change of topology.

What I can say is that pleasure doesn't make things right or wrong, it merely binds us to them. Perhaps everything is wrong to some degree, but that is being absolutist again, right and wrong are relative.

I intuitively know what is right and wrong. I have a filter or topology through which I perceive these distinctions. There are two compulsions, pleasure and wanting to expand my horizons.

I am wondering if part of the problem I have with P is confusion about the relative nature of right and wrong. Even with a topology or filter, things are not absolutely one or the other. The topology is relative. I have competing instincts and washing them with dopamine release gives the impression of resolving them until the come down.

Thinking about it now, I think wrong things are things in a state of confusion or contradiction. In topological terms, a set that is both open and closed at the same time. This has also been my definition of violence.

I don't know how this relates to Zen koans.

I know that through pleasure we seek to resolve the contradiction, to reach synthesis.

Anyway, I think I'm trying to come up with a theory of everything again, which is impossible :)

Perhaps this is the point. There are always some contradictions present in our topology, even if it is only the end points, and there are always some wrongs which are not right. We cannot make everything right at once. Perhaps this is the significance of the Zen koans. We need to accept that there is wrong in life and leave it alone.

I am just writing to stave of the urges.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 07, 2019, 09:23:27 AM
So my last post didn't help, I relapsed on P after only 79 days. I am thankful that I am still MO and PMO free.

I don't feel anything really, nothing I looked at aroused me and I barely looked at anything.

I did it because I still feel aroused by certain distortions and felt compelled to search them out.

I think I do need therapy on these distortions.

I am not really attracted to just images of sex, I am attracted to perceptions of sexual power imbalances, of imbalances in the ability to give sexual pleasure and how that makes people feel.

This comes down to identity politics and objectification.

It started with me as a kid when my aunt would flirt with me and how that made me feel. Obviously she was an adult and I was very young. Thus there was a power imbalance. It progressed with me wanting to have sex at a young age with older women. And then evolved into ideas about imbalances in identity politics.

There is a natural order in which everything is in its proper place, but it is always in flux. Everything has a level, but everything is changing too. Unnatural orders are when things try to be in two distinct levels at once. How change happens is a mystery, but things don't occupy different levels at once unless they are in a wrong state.

Do things have to pass through a wrong state to reach a right one. Not necessarily. As I said in the previous post, there are always things passing through wrong states towards right ones. There is always corruption.

I was brought up to believe in revolution, passing through the wrong states, the corruption, towards synthesis, a new right state. I was brought up to seek to right power imbalances. But power imbalances are things in wrong states. The lesson of the Zen koans is that such states always exist. Acceptance of this, ignoring these states, this is the way to remain right, otherwise one is fighting.

I have been fighting myself over sexual power imbalances for years, trying to reach a synthesis. With P that can never happen, as P is objectively a thing in a state of contradiction, it is sex without love.

I have struggled with my own sexual life, as I have struggled to find the natural level that I occupy. This has been partly because of my heritage, being the son of a refugee from a foreign part embroiled in an anti-colonial war. Thus I have struggled to find how I fit in with society that is somewhat alien to my heritage. I am seen in part as an intruder, with no natural level, occupying a wrong position in society.

I am now back to day one of my P counter. I don't feel bitter. I didn't derive any pleasure from the brief flashes of P that I looked at. I am still doing better than ever. However I am still worried about how I am attracted to working through sexual imbalances with pleasure. I am still worried that I feel the urge to bind myself to sexual imbalances via pleasure. I am still worried that I cannot just ignore sexual imbalances and know my level, and I still feel this has a lot to do with my relationship with society and corruption in it.

Something about me sexually doesn't fit in, and it is because I cannot place myself. I don't feel comfortable either identifying wholly with my mother's ethnicity or my father's. I see them in conflict, not just because my parents aren't very affectionate towards each other, being more a working partnership, but because of the history of conflict between the two ethnicities.

Thus I keep returning to trying to work through this, when really I should just put it out of my mind. It is a trigger for my psychosis as well, indeed in my opinion the main root.

I know that I am much better ignoring these things. They are wrong and they will always be wrong until they are forgotten. Why I returned to them is out of a need to separate the pleasure that binds me to these things from the things themselves. Thus I practiced mindful looking at P briefly, trying to see it for what it really is.

I have not experienced much sexual love in my life, and my addiction to PMO has caused me to experience much sexual pleasure devoid of love.

Readdressing this does not require working through more sexual pleasure devoid of love, because one is not the anti-thesis to the other. I have to strive to experience sexual pleasure with love, and that will take a lot of forgetting of the past and building on the little positive experience that I do have.

It seems a daunting task given my age, but at the very least I can start to forget the wrong things in my life.

So back to day one no P. 180 days no MO.

I will keep moving forward.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 08, 2019, 04:31:01 AM
So day one hard mode. I want to pick up where I left off with only this one blip. I know I feel better without P or MO, much more grounded, and if it hadn't been for my psychotic relapse I would still be clean.

I'm reading a book by a sex educator. It starts with an overview of masturbation, which I already discussed, and moves on to porn.

It's take on porn is a bit more nuanced than masturbation, in that it doesn't advocate so strongly, but it still says it's normal and nothing to be ashamed of. It mentions some of the most abusive types of porn around and basically says that this is all fine because it is just "fantasy". People listen to music with abusive content, read books and watch films about crime, war, horror and even torture and it is all ok because it is all just "fantasy". But I beg to differ. The key difference is that you participate in the fantasy by masturbating, which not only releases pleasure hormones but hormones associated with emotional bonding. One effectively blurs the line between fantasy and reality, which is very harmful.

Not having a good sense of the distinction between fantasy and reality is part of my condition of schizophrenia, this is one of the reasons that I believe it was brought on by PMO.

At the same time I am neurotic about having only good or pure thoughts, which is why I have had so much shame associated with my PMO use.

However make-believe is a part of play, children do it all the time, so fantasy in itself is not bad. But child development psychologists do look for disturbing fantasies in children's play to see if they are developing properly. I still think my fantasies about sexual power imbalances are bad, and I still think this is because I can't place myself in society.

I don't respect myself sexually, I don't think other people respect me sexually and I don't respect other people sexually, at least in my imagination.

All of this makes me turn to P to see myself reflected, to project my disrespect on to a screen. It also stops me from interacting sexually in real life.

So it is day one hard mode. I hope I am getting a better handle on dissecting my urges. Ignoring them is the best thing.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 08, 2019, 11:19:15 AM
So I'm really struggling. I briefly looked at P again today. That's twice in two days. I'm not MOing though.

I've concluded that the reason I don't have a sexual partner is because I am in love with my ego. I love my ego more than anybody else. It is always there fore me, and it competes with other people for my attention. Further, I have to ask my ego permission to do anything. Looking at P is one of the few times I disobey my ego, and it happens when my ego is at a loss. When my ego doesn't satisfy me, I have turned to the comfort of the dopamine rush, then my ego chastises me for choosing the dopamine rush over it, choosing something other than it for comfort and pleasure.

All this writing is my ego. I really do get pleasure out of writing it, sharing it, showing it off. I love my ego more than anything else in the world.

My ego is trying to make sense of this, that is what it does, make sense of things. When it is at a loss, either it hits an unanswerable question or runs out of questions to ask, when it ceases to make observations, that is when I have turned to P, to feed it with the question of love for something else. But it is still not love for somebody else.

All I have is my ego. All I do is talk and write, eat and smoke, sleep. I am useless. I don't perform service. I don't give convenience to others.

It is not that I don't love other people, I do, but they are less reliable than my ego.

I try to imagine my life without my ego, in service, but I can't.

Without my ego, I turn to P.

Without my ego, I turn to cigarettes.

Without my ego, I turn to food.

Without my ego, I turn to sleep.

I am happy most of the time, happy with my ego, I am in love with it after all.

I choose P over real women because it is safer. The women in P perform how I expect them to perform. They disrespect themselves sexually, they don't elevate sex to a lofty ideal.

I believe you should only have sex with somebody you love. As I love my ego more than anybody else, I only ever have solo sex.

I don't know how to love somebody else more than my ego.

Now I think I shouldn't have sex at all.

I resent physically attractive women for not degrading themselves by having sex with me when I don't love them more than my ego.

I resent the fact that physically attractive women distract me from loving my ego.

Yet I want to love women as much as I love my ego if not more.

It's just they're not as reliable.

Loving another human being is harder than loving one's ego, at least for me.

I am beginning to think my ego is useless. It just produces words.

But then, when I think that, that is when I turn to P, which is almost as reliable as my ego.

P is useless too, just images.

I don't know what I want, to hold somebody in my arms and feel a sense of well being.

I resent P because it captures my attention almost as much as my ego.

I only take pleasure in other people so much as they feed and appreciate my ego.

P feeds my ego, but it doesn't appreciate it.

I resent people when they don't feed or appreciate my ego.

I have just ordered a book on overcoming passive aggression. I never thought that I suffered from it, but I think now I have a lot of hidden anger or angst.

All this is just writing, some or none of it may be true, it is just the product of my ego and of no purpose other than to give me pleasure.

I am using my ego to try and understand why I have chosen this path with regards to P and why I have chosen a path without a real sexual partner.

At the end of the day it is simply the choice that I have made.

I hope that in the future I will choose a different path, a path free of P and MO and with a loving sexual partner.

That is all I can say.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 09, 2019, 10:55:25 AM
So there are two separate problems, one is getting a sexual partner, and the other is giving up P.

In my mind they are related, but they needn't be. Plenty of males have sexual partners and still look at P.

The issue for me is what turns me on.

I have been attracted to imbalances in sexual power and that is because I see them as reflections of my own relationship to sex.

I feel sexually powerless. At the same time I am in love with my ego so much I think that I should be sexually powerful, I should be attractive. Reality tells me that I am not, yet in many ways I am, it's just that my ego gets in the way.

The reason I see an overlap between getting a sexual partner and giving up porn, is because porn reflects my insecurities so the more I look at it the more I feed them.

Ming of MOing to porn smothers these insecurities with the release of pleasure hormones, so I have wired my brain to find pleasure in my insecurities, but so long as I have insecurities I won't be attractive.

I really have to give up porn, but I also have to rewire. I need to stop seeking to smother my insecurities in pleasure.

Separating porn from MO is a start, but I have been Ming to porn these last few days, edging.

At the very least I need to go back to not touching myself whilst looking at porn, just being mindful, beginning to see it for what it really is.

I need to find words to describe the porn I look at that explain it in terms of my insecurities so I can see how I am feeding them. At present I can barely describe it, only that the woman is pleasuring the man who is on a lower level than her, or the woman fetishizes the man, objectifying him.

I do not like abusive porn, but I have been attracted to porn in which the relative levels of the participants are different. Sometimes I have abstracted this by projecting it on to the idea of "race".

"Races" are not really at different levels, but we can attach levels to them as a form of projection, and this is generally considered racism.

I have experienced myself being fetishized because of my ethnicity or "race", and I have tended to project that on to the porn that I have sought out.

Fetishization is a form of differentiating between levels in that it is objectification and an attempt at ownership.

Levels is perhaps the wrong word, but I am trying to get at the natural position that somebody occupies relative to somebody else, their sense of self.

My ego is my sense of self, but I know that I am not my ego, I am something beyond. I think very highly of my ego, loving it more than anything else in the world, but the reality is nobody has ever had sex with me because of delight in my ego. This causes me to think I am either unattractive, or more usually, that other people are blind to my greatness.

Once again there is the sense of imbalance.

Not feeding this sense of imbalance with P and MO is a start, but I need to rewire as well.

I need to address how I relate my ego to others, to learn to ignore my ego and focus on reflecting other people better.

The problem is my ego demands attention, it demands to be fed and listened to. Even writing this is pure ego.

Only when my ego goes to sleep do I feel truly at peace with the world.

When I try to ignore it, it plays all sorts of tricks to try and gain my attention again.

It demands attention from others too.

But taming my ego is a separate thing from addressing the imbalance in sexual power that I feel.

The first thing is to have a more realistic view of my ego, it is not the greatest thing on the planet.

Other people's egos are just as valuable to them as mine is to me, and I need to learn to listen to them and appreciate them as much as I appreciate my own.

Egos feed each other, but I still think mine is the best. This is something I have to get over.

My ego is my sense of self, and I have to address how I relate to the world as well, which is wrapped up in identity politics.

Forgetting about identity politics, or politics in general, has helped me enormously to not go back into psychotic relapses so often and relate to women better as well.

I am not my body, I am not my ego, I am not my heritage, it is only when I see myself as these things that people start to fetishize or objectify and judge.

Similarly, other people are not their bodies, they are not their egos, they are not their heritage. It is only when you see a person for who they truly are that you begin to love.

Thank you.



Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on December 09, 2019, 03:28:18 PM
Hi Georgos, you have articulated many things very well there. I feel like you have made a great many astute observations and connections there, but at the same time, I also think there are some false equivalencies or at least some true, yet disproportionate, reactions. I feel like I want to reply but need to do so when I can put proper time and care into it, which I currently can't, but I will circle back to it some time soon. I just wanted to let you know that somebody is reading what you're saying and taking it seriously, and that you aren't in an echo chamber. And I also want to make it clear that when I say that, I am speaking to you from an emotional support perspective, and not specifically to your ego - although as you know, the ego gets involved almost everywhere!
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 10, 2019, 03:25:17 AM
Thank you once again Malando,

So there is a disconnect between the women I see on P and the women I meet in real life. In truth they are both real women but they behave differently, one according to a script and the other according to their free-will.

Life is not scripted. I cannot script my life or other women's without making films, nor do I particularly want to, but perhaps a bit of me does. It wants to script how women treat me sexually.

One of the things that I have struggled with is how to initiate sexual reactions from women. I have come to the conclusion that I have to ask. This sounds obvious, but in P, because you forget it is scripted, you see women just initiating sexual interactions on their own, starting to pleasure men without any prompting. But they are prompted, they are scripted.

I have set myself a challenge to ask my next date to hold my hand. I am so brainwashed by P that even this feels awkward. Isn't it pathetic that I have to ask? NO! This is real life. Indeed it is the basis of consent. Sometimes I have tried to ask with body language, again brainwashed by P, thinking that some subtle cue will lead to women initiating some sort of sexual interaction. It is as if I feel degraded by actually having to put it into words. But this is the brainwashing of P.

P is scripted, the women are asked, verbally, to perform in the way they do, it's just you don't see it. All this seems so blindingly obvious now, but I really didn't think so clearly before.

I have been afraid to talk openly about sex, and brainwashed into thinking sex will just happen without me asking. I am not talking about forcing myself on anyone, I am talking about women initiating sex.

As I said, my first challenge is simply to ask a date to hold my hand. Maybe then I will progress to asking for a kiss or a hug. It still all seems so infantile in my mind, but initiating sex through body language only happens when two people are really comfortable with themselves. With my anxiety and inexperience surrounding sex this is not going to happen. I need to put my requests into words.

Requesting through body language requires both people to be communicating with their bodies well. This is where my ego gets in the way, and is largely because I have been brainwashed to think that women will initiate sex with me without me asking.

I am just repeating myself, hammering it home, I need to ask, verbally at first, and through body language, but I need to ask.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 11, 2019, 01:39:04 PM
So one of the strategies I have used in the past is to donate some money to charity every time I have relapsed.

In the past I have donated to a charity working with porn and sex addicts, however this time I donated to a charity working to end abuse, exploitation and coercion of sex workers.

I am only writing this as I have found it a good way to help both myself and others and as a suggestion to others wishing to overcome this vice.

One of the biggest issues with porn, I think, is that it is pushed. You can't win, either you consume it for free, exploiting the workers, or you pay for it, encouraging exploitation.

Giving to charity is a good way to get around this issue, making sure that you are financially accountable for your actions. As it is voluntary, there should be no concern about getting into debt, but you yourself will know if you do not pay, and this might help you to stay accountable to yourself as well.

I hope this idea is helpful to some, charity is an obligation in most religions and generally considered to be a good idea by most ethicists.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on December 11, 2019, 09:11:27 PM
I like it, Georgos! It makes the addict immediately accountable - especially those who claim ethics as one of the reasons they are trying to quit. For the ethical quitter, it's not enough to try for years to quit and postpone one's ethics. For the ethical quitter, each relapse should carry consequences beyond one's own PMO goals.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 12, 2019, 04:37:13 AM
In the past I didn't stick at the charity idea, or rather I stuck to it until I managed over a hundred days and then didn't go back to it when I relapsed after that, but it really is quite effective and I would recommend it.

I don't want to get religious, but apparently Christianity preaches that you shouldn't boast about giving to charity to have maximum effect on yourself, because you shouldn't really be seeking any reward for yourself from anyone other than God. The idea is that charity is a means of coming closer to God, like all rituals in the religion, indeed in all rituals in almost all religions.

We cannot perceive God, but we can know Him/Her. We know Him/Her by His/Her actions or choices. Since we cannot perceive Him/Her, we cannot even label Him/Her as I am doing now. Indeed I believe the true meaning of the word Allah is "the name of God", rather than "God". We cannot know the true name of God, though He/She has names. In other words we can only speak of the name of God rather than God Himself/Herself. Even applying a gender is misleading, as I've tried to indicate. At the highest level, we are God, or rather our true selves are God. God is the one that chooses, that has free-will and exercises it. It get's very confusing because we perceive in multiplicity, but God is one. This is why we cannot perceive God. I am only writing, an atheist may dismiss all of this as just words, and not believe. As you read this you are perceiving it. Why should you believe what you perceive. You shouldn't it is an illusion. Knowledge of God is not the same as belief in God. Everyone knows there is a God whether they articulate it or not.

So I am getting quite heavy with religion. It is because I am concerned with choice. Why did I choose the path of PMO? How can I choose a new path with no PMO? Choice stems from will-pleasure alone, there is no rhyme nor reason to it, there is no relative cause and effect at the absolute level, we choose to perceive causes and effects. Our perception reflects ourselves and informs our choices. We don't need to understand anything we have chosen, to describe it in a chain of cause and effect or logical reasoning. But by doing so we can inform our choices. We cannot answer how we choose, we just choose. It is a mystery between us and God. The mystery of free-will. In truth we are slaves, or at least everything we perceive is the slave of God. Everything belongs to Him/Her. We are Gods. We are a part of God. But there is only one God. As I said, we perceive in multiplicity, but God is one. We cannot constrain our choices, but we can inform them through understanding. So I come back to the questions, why did I choose the path of PMO and how can I choose a path free of it? The second question is easy to answer, I can simply choose the free path. I don't need to understand why I chose the opposite in the past, but it helps. So what is the lesson of PMO addiction. There are so many. Indeed every action contains infinite lessons. I cannot exhaust the lessons. Perhaps this is the lesson of addiction in itself. We don't need to understand everything. We don't need a chain of cause and effect for everything. We simply choose according to our will-pleasure. All of this reminds me of the opening to the film Trainspotting. "Choose life" it begins with reference to overcoming heroin addiction. It sounds so easy, and it really is as easy as that, but we want to understand. We want to understand the mind of ourselves, of God Himself/Herself. Some things we cannot understand. We cannot perceive God, only know Him/Her. We know that we can choose. We know that we have free-will. Yet we don't believe. We keep testing our free-will, asking ourselves to make the same choice over and over again. It is because we doubt we have the capacity to choose, and it is because we want to perceive God, or at least perceive Him/Her in action. We always perceive God in action, we can never perceive God as one, only know Him/Her. This is why even referring to God as Him/Her is misleading, because it suggests that God is one of two. "It" perhaps is a better term, but most of us are not gender neutral. "Know thyself", "Be still and know that I am God". The "I am" is the realization. I would never have written like this before, I am not attempting to describe God but attempting to describe the difference between perception and knowledge. That I use the word "God" may be uncomfortable for some. As I said we can only ever refer to the "name of God" or "a name of God". I am simply using words.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 16, 2019, 07:56:07 AM
So I want to talk about my attraction to so called "interracial porn" and it stems from a confusion in my mind about "race" and my attempts to stimulate myself to resolve it.

I am half-Cypriot. Cypriots are not "White" classically, indeed classically they are Asian being from an island east of the Bosphorus in the Middle East.

But there is a problem, namely the so called Four Colour Theorem of mathematics upon which the theory of "race" is based.

This theorem states that in order to colour any map of contiguous regions, the most efficient way is to use four "colours" or "labels".

Thus we have the four classical "races", "Black", "White", "Yellow" and "Red".

Thus how can Cypriots not be "White" without being colour blind to one of the other so called "classical races"?

This confusion led me to return time and time again to so called "interracial porn". Indeed I had read a more modern theory of "race" by a Black Panther that had the following four designations for a map, "Black man", "Black woman", "White man", "White woman". This was even worse.

The truth is that four "colours" or "labels" only suffice if people or "races" do not have infinite boundaries. This is laid out in a paper by Hudson 2003, which I have yet to read, but need to.

This is the solution to my obsession with trying to place myself "racially" in a manner that respects other "races".

I should therefore have no more reason to return to so called "interracial porn", at least once I have read the paper, although already I have the beginnings of awareness of the solution.

I can be myself, a distinct "race" beyond any four designations and interact accordingly, as can anyone else. We do not need to be bounded by the Four Colour Theorem to efficiently make sense of the world, indeed we must not, since our boundary is infinite.

I can move on now. I will need to understand the paper in order to proceed, but that process has already begun.

The issue of pleasure and love still remains, but I have been conquering that for a long time. In many ways the confusion over "race" is the last remaining obstacle, and I am on the path to conquering that now, having been set straight.

I am thankful for the gift of awareness to the greater mathematical nature of reality that has come in the form of Hudson's paper.

I look forward to reading it.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: k-fff on December 16, 2019, 09:02:19 AM
The scientific terminology for the very broad racial categories are in fact, negroid, mongoloid, and caucasoid. You likely fit under caucasoid, but you're definitely not white. Whites are a subgroup of indo-europeans which is a subgroup of caucasoid. White really only refers to Europeans and the European diaspora. Other groups like Georgians, Persians, some Turks, and Indians are indo-europeans, but they are definitely not white. Then in the mid-east you have semites  which also fit under caucasoid broadly speaking Arabs and Jews; they are also not white. Going by the colour pallette thing is not a good idea. It wouldn't surprise me if you cluster heavily towards semitic dna. That being said you belong to a unique group of people with their own identity. In theory, you can breakdown ethnic groups like Irish, Italian as races. It depends on where you want to put the boundary. But my guess based on your homeland you're most likely semitic.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 16, 2019, 03:39:46 PM
Thank you k-fff, "race" is arbitrary, that is the conclusion of Hudson's paper which I have now read, and is a result of people's infinite boundaries, there is no end to self, there is no end to the category you choose to put yourself in, even if the number of cells in the body or people in the category is finite. This is the true science. There is no basis for the three categories you mention other than choice of what you pay attention to. If they work for you then fine, if five or fifty or ten billion (the number of people in the world) categories work for you then also fine. It is a choice how you and other people identify yourself.

I wanted to talk briefly about pleasure. Pleasure comes in many forms, and one theory links these to the chakras or energy centres of the body. Each of these centres combine pleasure with love. The lowest centre combines love with sexual pleasure, the highest, with universal pleasure. PMO addiction tends to stimulate these two only, moving directly from the lowest centre to the highest centre. One way to practice modulating the pleasure you receive is to learn to apply it to the other centres which have different qualities. Personally my brow centre or intellect is very active and I get a lot of pleasure from moving the energy there. Porn focuses the intellect back on sexual pleasure, again stimulating the lowest centre. The idea is to get away from the lowest centre and derive pleasure from the higher ones. The highest is where orgasm occurs, and believe it or not, this does not need to feed the lowest centre. Indeed the practice of reversing the direction of energy from high to low is frowned upon by many traditions. Porn use does reverse this flow because it causes the brow centre to focus on sexual pleasure, moving the energy from the brow to the genitals. This is one reason why it is harmful.

There is nothing wrong with pleasure, there is nothing wrong with sexual pleasure even, it is the quality of the pleasure that is important, and pleasure without love has no quality at all. Love always comes with pleasure, but pleasure comes with different qualities of love, love for sex, love for matter, love for plants and animals, love for companionship, love for expression, love for intellect and love for the universe. These are the seven classical centres as I understand them. It is clear now that PMO addiction unbalances these and doesn't lead to a healthy love life.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 17, 2019, 08:19:17 AM
So I have still been finding it hard to break the cycle of stimulating my genital and brow centres.

Moving the energy from my genital centre to my brow centre and back again has been one of the prime motivators in my life and has taken over all my motivation.

I am slightly confused about the theory.

Does the energy start in the genital centre and move upwards, or can it start in any of the centres?

Does it start in the feet, as in Qi Gong, or at the base of the spine, as in Kundalini Yoga?

I think the answer is that energy is everywhere and one can put the source anywhere one chooses.

Thus perhaps the best way to break the cycle of genital to brow and back again is to try and set up an alternative cycle from some other point or centre and connect it with the brow, ignoring the genital centre altogether.

I need to start practicing this, that is, so long as I adhere to this theory, and it is only a theory.

Theories are only true by consensus, in reality none of them are absolutely true and can even be false if the consensus differs.

At any rate this is the theory I am interested in at the moment.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 17, 2019, 10:20:49 AM
So my last posts were dealing with energy and pleasure, then the previous one with identity and the previous one to that with faith in a higher power.

All of these issues are important.

This journey is teaching me so many things, but that in itself is part of the cycle between genital and brow centres.

I have been looking at porn as part of that cycle briefly each day, without MOing or Ming, and then quickly realising that it is not interesting, but it has still fed the cycle.

Whilst this is massive progress, I need to find a way of stimulating my intellect that doesn't involve porn, and this is primarily because porn is anti-ethical.

One could argue that some forms of sexual imagery are acceptable, pinups and the like. I still haven't been able to separate text searches from image searches, but it occurs to me I would also like to separate harder material from vanilla material in my searches.

Fighting to discipline myself in such a way is not the way forward. I need to work through the identity issues that draw me to harder material.

I still haven't done that.

But all issues are inexhaustible. So long as one puts one's attention on them they are constantly evolving, changing and bringing to light new developments.

Thus my attempt to put a lid on my attraction to so called "interracial porn" was squashed by the further developments in the form of a conversation about it here on the forum. I'm not blaming k-fff, I appreciate him taking the time to reply, but racism and identity politics are never ending subjects, as indeed are all subjects. I need to release these issues from my mind, to stop paying them attention, to stop feeding them.

This is much harder said than done, we live in a world with some consensus that different "races" exist, perhaps even the consensus that k-fff refers to. But why is it still an issue for me. Many people still try to order them linearly in a hierarchy. In fact they are partially ordered in a tree, with no two people of the same age hierarchically ordered relative to each other, at least by "race". There are degrees of separation, yes, but the ordering is not linear.

But here I am feeding the issues again.

The other issue, that is related is my attraction to sexual imbalances. This again has to do with identity.

I want to try and discipline myself to look only at vanilla images to try and get away from identity issues, to try and get away from power imbalances. With "race" this is harder, as, as I said, many people still insist there are victims and oppressors, which is perhaps why I return to these kind of images the most. Seeing people as victims and oppressors is actually putting them in a linear order. Life is much more complicated than that, as I said, it is in fact partially ordered.

Again I am feeding the issues.

There are many reasons for this journey, we all know some people are not in the least bit neurotic about PMO and have healthy sex lives as well.

I have chosen this journey, at the very least to control my usage, to discipline myself, at best to leave it behind completely.

I still believe I would rather get all my sexual stimulation from a life-partner.

I still want love more than sexual pleasure.

But as I begin to forgive myself, I am realising that the two are not mutually exclusive.

I am pleased with my progress. 180 days without MO is great. 197 days without P is fantastic. 273 days without PMO is brilliant. These are my records.

I am relating to women sexually better than ever before and I am doing much better with regards to my mental health.

This journey is paying off.

But the key is that it is the journey that is important, not the destination, as is so often said.

Indeed even for those who have ED problems, which I don't, it can sometimes only take a spell of 90 days to cure them. These spells might have to be repeated over a lifetime, and that is part of the journey, but the sad reality is that very few people on here give up completely for ever.

Nothing stays the same, except God who is not a thing and we can't perceive anyway. Nothing repeats exactly, not even the most accurate clocks. Everything is in constant flux, however minor.

We are not destined to repeat our behaviour over and over again for eternity, it will simply evolve and change and become some new behaviour, that may or may not resemble the old behaviour in a multitude of ways.

It is not a question of getting rid of all addictions, we are addicted to food for instance. Realising that you don't need porn is part of the journey, and the journey will continue after you have left it behind.

I am making that realisation, but I still have issues with sex and identity that remain unresolved.

So I am grateful for the progress I am making, and thankful for the journey.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: cranm329 on December 17, 2019, 12:11:39 PM
Do you do microcosmic orbit qigong? May be worth looking at YouTube for examples of exercises and sequences.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 18, 2019, 04:19:55 AM
Thank you cranm, I will look into it.

I really want to try separating porn from vanilla images like pinups and fashion pictures, pictures of beautiful women, but already I have noticed a resistance in me and it comes from insecurity.

Why is there a tendency to move to harder stuff?

When you see a pinup or a fashion picture, the confidence of the women in it with their sexuality triggers your insecurity, you want to see them brought down a level, degraded, brought down to your level or below. And this comes from feeling insecure about your own sexuality, your ability to meet them as equals.

Again it goes back to attraction to power imbalances. I have always been attracted to sexually powerful women lowering themselves by giving pleasure for nothing in return. As I said, this comes from insecurity, wanting charity, seeing myself as unworthy, unable to meet them as an equal.

So I really want to just appreciate women in pinups or fashion pictures and stop myself from moving on to harder stuff.

In fact even these images can be degrading to women, creating false senses of what femininity is meant to be, from body image to attitude, but they are better than porn by a huge degree. The women are showing off, they may still be acting, but they are showing off, though they may still be lowering themselves to men's expectations.

Being able to meet them as equals in my viewing should help with my self esteem. Ideally I'd like to not seek out images at all. But I want to get over the trigger to move to harder stuff that such vanilla images so often cause, and this means working on my image of self worth.

It degrades me to look at harder stuff because I am accepting that I cannot meet sexually attractive women as their equals.

I need to conquer this attitude and transcend it. Accustoming myself to looking at more vanilla images without moving to harder ones will help.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 18, 2019, 10:54:47 AM
So searching for only vanilla images is harder than you might think.

The first search I did had mostly vanilla images but quite a few hardcore ones as well. Repeating the search filtering out the "porn" still had a few hardcore images.

I'm still barely looking at porn for more than a minute or so each day, and I'm still not MOing or Ming.

I've realised that I have always been more attracted to vanilla images, although my they have always triggered me to search for harder things, this is why even when I click on the harder stuff I usually can't bear to watch it past the opening stages.

However I want to overcome the triggering towards harder things that as I said is a result of insecurity and wanting to see women degraded to a level below the level I feel I am at, so I can feel secure in my sexuality.

I need to feel secure in my sexuality without feeling the need to degrade anyone, to meet them as equals.

This is a big part of the journey for me, not just abstaining from porn, but conquering the reasons that attracted me to it in the first place.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 19, 2019, 08:45:48 AM
So I managed to search for non-pornographic images that still were somewhat arousing, more so than most of the pornographic ones actually, which I more often than not find distasteful. I usually really have to search for porn that is to my taste.

The challenge now is not to let it trigger me to searching for porn.

Intellectually knowing that it is my lack of self-worth that sends me to search out degrading images of women is not the same as actually having the self-worth to not go down that path but it is a start.

Someone told me if I am ashamed of looking at porn I might be sexually repressed.

I am, but even if the women are enjoying taking part in porn, the reason I have been looking at it is still to see them brought down to the level at which they have sex with guys I think are jerks.

This last statement perhaps proves that I am sexually repressed by indicating that I think having sex is at a lower level than non-sexual interactions, but the key is that I think the guys are lower than me, being jerks.

I really do think that the attraction to porn is sexual insecurity, so I don't think stopping it will have any affect on me being sexually repressed.

I do however need to deal with my sexual repression.

Slowly, slowly I will climb out of this cave.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 23, 2019, 08:06:43 AM
So I managed three days of P-subs without MO before returning to P. Still no MO though.

I'm not sure if its harder to try and restrict yourself to P-subs without MO than to give up everything altogether.

The desire to move from P-subs to P is definitely a desire to see the women in the images lowered.

But then I have sexual repression of seeing sex as lowering oneself as well.

This is the core of my neurosis.

Add to that the underlying racism of so called IR porn and my neurosis gets worse, eventually leading to psychosis.

The underlying racism of so called IR porn is not the fact that it features mixed race couples, it is how I the viewer relate to it and why I have so often sought it  out coming from my sexual repression.

The fact that I view sex as somehow base and a lower activity and then project that on to black men is racist.

I am a hypocrite for doing it.

The confusion comes from thinking that the fact that it features mixed race couples is somehow anti-racist. The reality is that my projections are racist, and that is how I relate to the images.

I need to deal with my sexual repression, and porn is not the answer.

Trying to look only at P-subs without MO seems like a good idea at the moment, but I have been really struggling to maintain it, so far only three days maximum.

I'm pleased that I'm not MOing, I don't suffer the same ups and downs of orgasm and then come-down.

Why do I feel the need to lower women? Why do I view sex as lowering? This is the paradox that leads to neurosis. The answer is because I have been getting my sexual stimulation through porn.

In this sense I should quit P-subs as well, but I can't help but think that healthy men can look at an image of an attractive woman without feeling repressed.

The racism is a direct result of the way I relate to my sexual repression through projection.

I need to stick to P-subs for the time being. I will try to go a week of only them, but I have found that the choice of what images to search for starts before I even search.

This is why limiting myself to text searches is also important.

I know it sounds like I'm messing around, I should just quit altogether, but I'm trying to explore my sexual repression in a more mindful and analytical way.

I will keep to the path of toning down my searches for the time being before eventually trying to quit everything again. The good thing is that I am not MOing and that is something to be proud of.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 24, 2019, 04:21:50 AM
So for the record, I have managed 197 consecutive days without P last year. It is because I have made it that far that I am trying to take a different path than all or nothing at the moment. The real problem is sexual repression which I think is directly related to my past PMOing. Ethics is not the problem though certainly a good reason to quit. The reason I say that is because, for example, the meat industry is horrific in its treatment of animals, yet not everyone feels the need to become vegetarian or vegan. As I said, ethics is a good reason to quit, but it is not the main problem for me. The main problem is how I relate to sex. Some people consume porn and have healthy sex lives. I would like to quit for ethical reasons, but more important to me is that I have a healthy sex life.

My sex life is compounded by my diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia. Being effectively mentally disabled makes it that much harder to find a girlfriend or to keep one. I need someone who can deal with me when I'm having psychotic relapses, and that is a huge demand to place on anyone.

My PMO use contributed to my initial breakdown, in fact it was one of the main reasons, and has played a large part in my subsequent condition. It also contributed to my sexual repression to a large degree and this also makes it difficult to establish a sexual relationship.

I'm doing much better. I'm not MOing, so don't have the ups and downs of orgasm and come-down. But I need to get serious about not looking at P again. My last streak was 79 days.

Anyway, it's Christmas eve, so happy holidays everyone,

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 26, 2019, 03:26:41 PM
So is this journey never ending? It depends what you mean by end. I did 79 days hardmode recently. I did 197 days without P at the beginning of the year, 273 days without PMO. I am succeeding. I still want to do a years hardmode, but will it end there.

I am not doing this because of ED, I am doing it for psychological reasons, dealing with my neurotic relationship with sexual stimulation.

I am sexually repressed.

When sexual thoughts come through my mind, I tense up, which is really bad on dates.

I don't like porn ethically and I have a bad relationship with masturbation bio-chemically. I want to appreciate true beauty and make real love.

This either or is my neurosis, but I have been doing the former things which I don't like most of my life, whereas the latter I have struggled to express.

I have almost completed three days hardmode as of today. Tomorrow I want to look at some fashion models. I say want, I don't really have any bio-chemical urges to do it, I just want to practice looking at fashion models instead of P.

I will look at them, however briefly, without masturbating, and then I will do another three days with no looking at any sexual images of women at all. Already I have felt the sinking feeling of the inevitability of going back to P after looking at fashion models. But it is not inevitable, it is my choice.

I want to feel comfortable looking at beauty and also discard the feeling of needing to see women having sex in order to feel superior.

I know I can avoid porn, but I need to learn to appreciate beauty without wanting to conquer it or possess it.

My plan sounds really neurotic, a day of looking at fashion models and then three days of looking at nothing, all the time without masturbating, but I think it is progressive towards my aims.

Avoiding porn is not enough, I have to deal with the underlying psychological reasons for which I have looked at it.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on December 27, 2019, 04:25:54 AM
So three days of hardmode complete and today I want to look at fashion models for one day only. I will probably only look briefly, for a minute or so, but even thinking about it makes me feel strange. I don't know how to describe the feeling, it is a sort of feeling of despair at the inevitability of caving and disgust at myself for not being strong. I don't think I describe it right. It is very hard to put into words. But it is important. This feeling can build and cause me to relapse proper. It is part of the neurosis of trying to suppress my urges. Suppressing bad things is a last resort. In reality you should not want to do bad things in the first place.

I'm going to look at the images of fashion models in the evening to maximise my chances of not moving on to P. Tomorrow I will go back to total abstention. Despite looking at fashion models, I am not going to look at P anymore. My past experience causes me to doubt this last statement, but I must believe it.

I am still not MOing at all and this is giving my the space to be mindful with the images and ascertain what is really going on psychologically. It is also not reinforcing the addiction to the images with orgasm.

I am making great progress, I have barely PMOd at all in the past eighteen months, doing better than I have ever done.

The aim is to cure my neurosis and have a healthy sex life. This requires coming to terms with P psychologically, not just leaving it in the past.

Coming to terms with P must be emotional as well as intellectual. Words are not enough.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on January 01, 2020, 03:57:42 PM
So I've been thinking about the spectrum of sexuality.

The truth is nobody knows how love works.

Even sexual orientation is an unknown mix of nature and nurture (some studies showing that it is only about thirty percent genetic whatever that means).

When I think of two of my closest gay friends, they were the first boys in my school to go on a date with girls, whereas I was the last.

It's probably not helpful to draw the comparison between PMO addiction and sexual orientation, but they are both part of the sexual spectrum of behaviour.

In truth the genetic component of PMO addiction is probably much lower, which is why it can be changed, but I am wondering about the studies that show that a significant portion of men suffer anxiety and neurosis with regards to PMO abuse, whereas the majority don't. Does this have a significant genetic component, like schizophrenia?

I'm not drawing any conclusions, just wondering how to move on.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on January 02, 2020, 05:30:16 AM
So I'm still thinking about to what extent sexual neurosis with regards to PMO is hardwired in some men. Why do some men experience such anxiety following orgasm and others don't?

The brain exhibits plasticity meaning that it can reconfigure itself in response to the environment, which is what gives me hope, but arranging the environment to help reconfigure the brain is not really an option except on a very limited scale.

I recently watched a video on the new studies of the brains of people interacting with each other, something that has not been done before owing to the nature of MRI scans which prohibit movement.

With new specially designed technology they are now able to scan the brains of people holding conversations and engaging in other interactive activities.

The preliminary results found something that seems obvious, but is important. When two people or even groups of people interact, the cycles in their brains become entrained, oscillating in harmony.

This made me wonder about the idea that Chinese doctors can tell the difference between what they call the neurotic pulse after masturbation and the healthy pulse after sex.

There is probably an entrainment that goes on between the brains of people having sex which doesn't happen when people masturbate on their own.

In other words, the cycles in the brains of people having sex, synch, whereas I suspect there is a real danger of the cycles in the brains of someone who masturbates getting out of synch with the world. This in itself is not necessarily bad. Being out of synch gives us the chance to be original and innovative, but it also gives us the chance to become dysfunctional.

So I am still wondering whether the anxiety that many men experience after orgasm is hardwired or the result of how they synched with their environment during masturbation over the years.

Probably a bit of both.

At present, I think the best thing I can do, which I am doing, is not to MO anymore, to try and resynch by giving the cycles a break.

Much of my anxiety has gone as a result of this.

The remaining issue is about being hardwired to look at P which some people have mentioned.

I'm still not sure how to deal with this issue.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on January 03, 2020, 04:28:48 AM
So mindless browsing is keeping me away from P but not away from psychotic triggers :(

I have gone back to seeing conspiracies everywhere and trying to impose my will which is not what life should be about.

Give and ask, these are the two requisites of a good life.

But more than this, what do you give and what do you ask.

I must be mindful. I must stop trying to impose my will, offloading my problems.

Have been concentrating on family and friends wellbeing and given the problems of the clan to the world. Is it any wonder I am being triggered.

I am not insane yet, just have to watch the impulse to browse irrelevant news to me.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on January 04, 2020, 07:28:21 AM
So when I'm stressed and trying to find the right words to say I use the yi jing.

I always throw coins, but I'm trying to remember how to do it with yarrow sticks.

I recall grouping them into a certain number of piles and then counting them off, but how many and into what piles I can't remember.

I could look it up again, but I'm struggling to be still.

I don't want to throw coins again.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on January 05, 2020, 04:22:27 AM
So I have had a relapse which is now abating.

The trigger was getting involved in things that are none of my business on the internet again, mainly out of a sincere wish to contribute and a sense of boredom.

I still can't do the simplest of physical tasks, I need to start with yoga and tidying my flat.

I'm ashamed of working under duress, I want to do it voluntarily, perhaps that is my ill feelings towards slavery.

Our souls are free but our egos are slaves, so long as we are conscious, this is something to remember as you love your ego and shape it into something that can be released.

I've lost count of days which could be another reason for my relapse, especially with this tension around me.

No P, no MO, so far, just have to make the best of it.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: mobilfreak on January 06, 2020, 06:41:39 PM
You are doing great!

Lift you head and look forward. It will be fine, one day. Keep walking.

I believe in you!
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on January 08, 2020, 04:18:57 PM
Texted three girls today, one of them is married, but hey, she's still a friend.

Not after sex just yet, just a little company and maybe a hug and a kiss.

Cheers
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on January 09, 2020, 04:10:26 AM
Still haven't had any reply from my girlfriends,

No P
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on January 10, 2020, 04:03:45 PM
So I'm doing great, just feeling stressed in my neighbourhood at the moment, too much going on in the news, I just want to relax, still no MO or P, been invited to a birthday party which is good and had a text from one of my lady friends, am quite chilled and my smoking is coming under control, sleeping well and eating when I feel hungry, so all is good.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on January 15, 2020, 05:16:37 PM
So I finally understand my fetishes and I still don't approve at least not all the time. It is too early for developing competition with the birds which has been one of my major psychosis. Leave dragons be, they know what they're doing is my philosophy. The sun is shining, the dragons are singing, and the birds are communicating secretly to their ancestors. Where are the bones? Where is the DNA? Where is the flesh? I want to start a no-chicken diet. There are 19 billion chickens in the world, more than twice the number of humans. That the males are ground up at birth is a travesty. Sacrificing chickens has gone too far. Chicken has been my main source of food, but I'm going to try and ration it on a counter. Counting is important, and giving myself something else to count is a good way of solidifying my over reliance on PMO. My priority is to stay in heaven without descending into war, in other words, stay sane. So tomorrow is day one without chicken. I'm going to try to last the week. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on January 16, 2020, 03:46:55 PM
So I'm not sure I want to get into dieting. One of my TCM doctors said you should only eat when you feel like it, and that has always been my philosophy. Counting days of diet sounds like another neurosis to me. Having said that, counting days generally keeps me stable. I have to focus on my goals and improving my concentration. I will get better. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on January 17, 2020, 02:12:29 AM
So have been having a mild psychotic relapse and this morning I relapsed P and MO though not at the same time. Psychosis always has triggered me to relapse MO in the past. I've said there is nothing wrong with MO per se, just that it can cause problems to individuals. I already regret it, but that is part of the neurosis. I don't know how many days it's been, a fair few. Right now I'm hearing a bird taunting me. I'm still not over my mild psychosis. I wish the bird would stop speaking. I'm not even hearing it's song, just it's taunting elementals. They're not fair reflections of me. I'm not really bothered about P and MO at the moment, more about my state of mind and reality. I've got to get away from this birds taunting. I'm going to go for a walk. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on January 19, 2020, 01:55:55 PM
So I've been bothering my teachers with incessant emails eager for new knowledge. I spent yesterday house sitting for a lady friend. I love her and she loves me but we're strictly no sex before marriage and I'm not sure it would last in the long run. Communication between me and my last girlfriend was really bad, I know she liked me, but I was mixing all kinds of things with my tobacco like marshmallow and thyme and she still ended up getting upset. I'm sure I was honest with her, she smoked too, and we both knew it would be difficult. I was mostly worried about how I would support her, and that is at the back of my mind with this lady too. Creation is a funny business, in the end it is all down to communication and we always use tools to communicate, be they mouths or noses. I'm just not ready for kids. Still, we agreed to meet the following week so there's nothing to worry about, just take it at the pace that we both feel comfortable with. I still think she likes the tobacco more than me, but we're getting there.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on January 21, 2020, 03:13:24 AM
So I have diagnosed myself, I have infosomatosis, a tendency to teach when I should be listening, it is a form of psychosis-schizophrenia that leads to bad karma causing paranoia. I don't know whether I need to get it officially recognised by the psychiatric community, it would be a start, I think it only affects Cypriots and Cubans and maybe Japanese and Koreans. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: malando on January 21, 2020, 08:37:49 AM
So I have diagnosed myself, I have infosomatosis, a tendency to teach when I should be listening, it is a form of psychosis-schizophrenia that leads to bad karma causing paranoia. I don't know whether I need to get it officially recognised by the psychiatric community, it would be a start, I think it only affects Cypriots and Cubans and maybe Japanese and Koreans. Thank you.
I would hope that is some kind of joke, Georgos! I can't tell because you're also saying you're having psychotic symptoms. But that sounds batshit crazy!
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on January 23, 2020, 04:42:50 AM
So I'm slightly sick of diversity questions, the world is partially ordered like a tree in a forest, there are many trees in fact, each with their own bubble of space and time if I may be so bold. I am Asian Greek, Middle Eastern and North African, Asia starting east of the Bosphorus. I am also Celtic, Norman and Welsh, assuming I was born which my mother assures me that I was. In fact, I don't remember it, only appearing in front of a tank of lobsters and then sometime later in a garden. Perhaps I am a devil; lol ; @ 0 P ?

Jokes aside, there is something serious about intelligence agents, informants and actors that I don't approve of. They all think their in charge of having sex.

Arrogance is a sin, believing in the reality of the dust cloud that is but a mirage. You will never find peace that way. It is better not to judge.

I have been told that it is possible to discern, this is true since the way is omniscient and the logos can deliver all information if you ask. The clave informs the heart of the correct interpretation. We are all oracles I suppose.

But I digress, stay off the drugs that harm you and take those that help. As I said, try not to judge, but discern, even porn is not haram under the correct overstanding, perhaps it is just images of what is happening elsewhere;

I have never been to Venus, Jupiter or Mars, though I'd like to go to the Moon some day, perhaps I am from Titan.

I intend to make a prolonged study of astrology, to ascertain the music of the spheres beyond the pentatonic (five visible planets) and octave (five planets plus the sun and moon and earth) to the stars. From Shoenberg to Stockhausen through jazz and back again, harmony is possible in time.

There is a whole universe to explore, and I am still learning, I just hope I haven't got it upside down.

Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on January 24, 2020, 05:25:17 AM
So anonymity is important sometimes, information needs to be released in a balanced and responsible way, that is why I have diagnosed myself with infosomatosis, the tendency to simply express whatever comes to my mind regardless of the consequences. Sometimes it is better not to know, but I have been trying to figure out just who it is I have been talking to. Yesterday I convinced myself that I was talking to two politicians, the head of my local council and a very senior British MP. I also wondered about some of the other people. Did I know them. All this wondering about the true identities of people who have chosen to remain anonymous simply brought me stress. Once you know who they are you have to take what you know or think you know about them into account. If they continue to insist on anonymity then it just leads to further confusion and problems for you creating paranoia. We are all friends here, we trust each other, that is enough. We are all here for the same reason, to stop masturbating and sever our attachment to porn. If my teacher were here I'm sure he would say the same thing. I looked at P today and MO'd shortly afterwards. Still no PMO at least. It doesn't bother me anymore so long as it is not too frequent. It is ok to make mistakes and release pressure. The question is how one releases pressure, which brings me back to my condition of infosomatosis. To act and say the right thing at all times is a challenge. To say neither too little nor too much is another. To make the best of life under all circumstances is what life is all about. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on January 24, 2020, 02:20:20 PM
Both the standard model and relativity allow for the existence of tachyons, what is known as the ether, particles or waves that travel faster than light. There is a whole universe of them, of which the Higgs Boson is but one. Beings composed of them live there, unseen by us, as relativity states that nothing can accelerate beyond the speed of light to reach them. Physics has yet to work out how tachyons degenerate, and that is a good thing, because the universe is vast and full of more war and peace than we can fathom. Such beings have been known to all cultures. In the Koran they are called the jinn. It states that their are Muslim jinn and non-Muslim jinn. There are countless religions and creeds, and some come to sow seeds of hatred whilst others come to help. It is not about "race", so much as about politics. The politics of the universe and beyond. That these beings walk amongst us, causing wars and providing insights, is beyond doubt, how they are perceived depends on how the tachyons degenerate. Thank God we do not know how yet. I am ashamed of those who seek to make peace through denial of differences. Life is about economics, the exchange of experiences. To take on the experience of a greater being is dangerous. This is why the Koran says in general one should have nothing to do with jinn. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on January 27, 2020, 12:33:07 PM
So I have been really stressed, but not psychotic the last few days, largely because I have been on a fast moving forum. I need to deal with my problems on slow moving forums like this one, not one's that update every few seconds. The internet is like a psychotropic drug, and can be addictive. Even this forum is addictive to an extent, but it is at a pace that is reasonable. I need to try and read books again and solidify the foundations of my life. My priority remains to stay sane and P and MO free. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on January 28, 2020, 05:28:11 AM
So I'm getting into mediating politics again, diplomacy like Leibniz, I guess that's what I'm paid for, not really, it's just that when you're a ward of the state, as I am, nothing comes for free, which is why I want to transition to being independent. I am sick. Money always comes with strings attached, it is hard to escape. I need to take a break from fast moving internet and meditate, nap or sleep. The internet is too addictive, the thrills of clicking, reading tweets on any platform, and posting nonsense, stimulates massive dopamine overload and stress. I'll try to stick to posting here. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: ShadeTrenicin on January 31, 2020, 03:56:54 AM
Hi georgos, how are you doing today?

I saw your post in my journal and I was wondering if I or we could help you with something.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on January 31, 2020, 04:53:42 AM
Fam, I've never read the Bible and that is how it's meant to be, I'm East Side Orthodox knot West Side Muslim or Vudun.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on January 31, 2020, 11:34:08 AM
So I once read a book on spiritual economics saying we should start stealing from big corporations, I thought it was kind of daft, it's true they exploit people, but some people also exploit them, I don't know, who cares, it is what it is.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 01, 2020, 03:52:02 AM
Day 27, trying to make sensimilla with my mind...
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 02, 2020, 04:21:12 AM
So I'm coming back down to Earth after thinking I was talking to JayZ and the Khardashinas , it really was a bad trip, I started smoking Sterling tobacco and I could smell the money, it was making me sick, like rotting fridges or bad feet, back to Palmal now, the Irish smoke, really want to get something that's good for my cough, might try mixing it with some ginger shavings, just going with the flow... I'm a Libra, so always try to remain neutral until I make a judgment, discerning which side is more just and who has been obeying the law, but pigs don't generally get the girls, being castrated at birth for the most part, and I'm not talking about policemen, pork is not even eaten by Ethiopian Christians, let alone Muslims and Jews. Will try to make the best of the it, don't feel so bound by P or MO any more at all, it is a joy to go without. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: ShadeTrenicin on February 02, 2020, 05:57:27 AM
Good for you that you feel fine without PMO!
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 03, 2020, 11:11:40 AM
So I'm thinking back to the time I got picked up by the police for shouting a warning many years ago, some women were stealing energy, qi, or smoke, or ether, or whatever you want to call it, whilst I was walking along, it is true the trees may have been talking, there are plenty of them where I walk, but I could sense what was going on and it was wrong. The police didn't understand though I told them straight up, and I had to do t'ai ji spins which they later said had hurt them, though they admitted they didn't know what was going on, taking me to the hospital was the right thing to do, but even the doctor didn't fully understand, he thought I was talking about sex with my father, or at least my yiayia (grandmother in dialect) who is now dead. I suppose I didn't know then, just a vague intuition about life on the wire, no nafs or ego, no spoken word, so boasting about it here is nothing new, I just want to get on with my life as best I can and I have a few family and love life problems to sort out.

My aunt has dementia, that is one of the first problems in my life, I don't know the cure, she's very old, and in many ways the matriarch. She lives near Famagusta in Cyprus, Islam is probably the best solution, though vitamin K3 can help;

The second problem is sorting out how I am going to live with my future wife, we have such radically different lifestyles, me typing away in drudgery and she praying everyday to pick up something nice. Her flat is filled with junk, my body is filled with pills, neither of us want these things, however I do care for my parents and her brother, so I'm worried that she is taking the piss. It's not that I think she works, she lives like a Queen, and she told me life has always been her dream ever since she was a child, I just struggle with work compatibility issues which help, and when I talk my experience fades away, so we are in love, if it were only possible to sleep for ten minutes before leaving the house;

Drudgery and writing make me happy, they give me purpose, for her, the collection bowl and spoken word satisfy her soul, we can do small talk and quick snuggling, she often kisses me on the forehead, but my mind won't let me partake :(

I guess I'm just a dog, to use a rude word, but I'm not afraid to say it.

Anyway, the counter is still on, and I'm unconsciously counting this time, which is a relief after the last 30 years.

Wondering what my brother is up to today, he's gone silent :(
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Georgos on February 14, 2020, 01:50:34 PM
The world is in my imagination, I created my world and gave birth to my own language. I made one mistake, the words “black” and “white”. B-Lack and Why-ti where “ti” is the word for “what” in Greek. I need to correct these labels for myself. From now on I will refer to bath and wath people. Thank you.
Title: Re: NoFap Consciousness
Post by: Loving_Mary on April 08, 2020, 05:21:31 PM
thank you Georgos for sharing. I hope you're doing well ;)