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Messages - Gracie

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976
Partners of Rebooters and Addicts / Re: Feeling discouraged
« on: May 10, 2014, 07:57:00 AM »
None of us here can speak for how your husband is dealing with this.  I understand where you are coming from because we would all like a guarantee that we are the one and only beloved of our husband so there will be no more choosing porn over us. 

As I have said before, for us a daily routine that we stuck with for us having physical contact worked best.  We kissed good morning and  conversation, it would be "Are you ok".  We arranged to eat lunch everyday.  This also involved kiss hello and kiss goodbye. If we go out to eat, we sit next to each other.  Even in a booth.  At night, we are in bed together at the same time.  We have a night time snuggle, every night.  Wrapping arms around each other.  We kiss good night. 

We sit together on the couch.  We hold hands.  We talk.  These things gave both of us the security we needed.  It also let us know we were working through this together.  We started this pretty much at the beginning because of what we had read.  There were times when things were heated or I was down the rabbit hole mad or sad that this was NOT comfortable.  And the same emotions for him.  We did it anyway.  When I look back, I do not know how I had the strength some days.  Some days I had to look at him and say, I love you anyway.  And there were days that we were both emotionally drained, I would ask myself, "What does he need right now?"  These things made us connect when we needed to the most.  Now they are just natural. 

I was skeptical that it would work, but it did.  Not overnight but it did. 

977
Women / Re: Surprise
« on: May 10, 2014, 07:33:24 AM »
I am able to write today.  Sometimes I have the time but the emotion of writing is too much and then sometimes I want to write but have no time. 

As I looked over my last post about communication, I realized that I have had trouble communicating as well.  I could not talk about a lot due to fear of the unknown.  I cannot think of anything I was afraid of, it was just a generalized fear.  I suppose that was due to a combination of fear of rejection, failure, not being whatever I thought I should be or whatever I thought my husband wanted and I could go on and on. 

What made me realize this was a late night conversation because he could tell I was restless, which is a sign my mind is at work and I am having trouble voicing what it is.  Most of the time it is what was the thing that started this whole 15 years long thing in our lives?  This bad choice that he made.  (Trust me, it is a big step for me to be able to say he made a bad choice)  So I looked within me and was able to talk about when I had to choose to be away a lot to take care of a horrible situation involving my mother and how guilty I had felt at the time and still feel over choosing her over being with him and the kids at that time.  (My mother was emotionally very abusive to me)  And how could I choose that over him.  That situation occurred around the time he started pulling away and using porn.  Soooo after 2 years, I can reason things out better.  Because I do trust he is not going to use again.  I just have trouble with I am good enough.  But like I said, baggage.  Parents said not good enough and even though husband did not say it, in my mind he did so by demonstration.

Another good thing.  I was looking through some old things mostly paper stuff and in there was a lingerie catalog from 20 years ago.  I did ask him about it right away.  And because of where it was, I knew there had been no chance of recent or even years ago use.  We talked about it...and I did not go down the rabbit hole of emotion.  I put it in its own trash bag and took it to the can.  I am so proud!

Sorry this is rambling.  But just the thoughts of this morning.

978
Women / Re: Surprise
« on: May 05, 2014, 06:29:16 AM »
Bluebird,  I am glad that what I write helps people.  I try to put my feelings in writing as best I can.  I truly feel that everyone can move through this.  I won't say ge t past, because it changes the relationship.  It changes the way you view your partner.  But this can be done!  I know that it is hard for men to write in the journals of women.  It is often hard for them to journal after a woman had made a comment in the men's journals for some reason. 

I want you to know.  I believe in telling the woman.  It is hard.  It is tearful but then there are two fighting this thing and not just one.  I think that if the goal is for a man to be able to discuss the things that bother him that led to PMO then he needs to be able to talk about it all.  Not all the details about what was watched, just that it was watched.  Then there can be communication.  Communication is what helps it change. 

Got to go to work.  I will write more later.

979
Women / Re: Surprise
« on: May 03, 2014, 06:59:35 AM »
Thank you rainiegirl .  I wasn't sure anyone would play them but they helped me a lot.  We have 122 songs on our play list.  Some are fun Love Shack--B52s, Sugar sugar--Archies etc.  But some are like these we have ever thing.  Rod Stewart, Neil Young, John Prine, Dolly Parton, The Cure, Goo goo dolls, Bruno Mars, Celine Dion, Barbra Streisand, Bette Midler. Jack White, Cars can be blue and also the Iquanas.  A rather eclectic list.  But we have each put song on. 

It helps us focus on the important part.  I think everyone as they go through this should have a song list that the two of you share.  Picking songs lets you express where your head's at.  And with your man or woman choosing songs as well it helps bond you.  This is just for you two this selection process.  When you choose one and share, the other one knows that you have been thinking about them in a good way.

980
Ages 40 and up / Re: Cosmo's Journal
« on: April 27, 2014, 09:47:42 PM »
Love You Hate the Porn was the book that helped my husband and I.  It helped me understand exactly what you have said about him.  It helped him understand how I felt and about wives emotional attachement.  There is a web blog by the same name that has numerous blogs archived that is amazing as well.  My husband and I marked passages that were explanations of how we felt and then read them and talked about them. 

You will be closer to your wife.  It does get better.  There are hiccups on the way.  But the ability to tell each other everything is amazing!

981
Porn Addiction / Re: Gabe's 16x9 video
« on: March 31, 2014, 02:43:26 PM »
Hey Gabe, no I did not mind that you posted a more direct link to your video.  Thanks for doing that, much appreciated.  Hope a lot of people have seen the video.  It is one of the better ones I have seen.  Looking forward to the live event tonight.  Did you post the video on YBR? 

982
Women / Re: Surprise
« on: March 31, 2014, 02:39:18 PM »
I know that some people do not like medication to assist in depression.  I have had that pointed out to me before.  But it helped me sort out what I needed and how to work toward a better way for the both of us.  There was so much work to do.  First we had to figure out how to talk again.  Really talk.  So there were times I was just raw emotion and then times there was calm conversation.  It was so hard at the beginning.  He had not talked to me in so long beyond the mundane everyday converasation.  I was scared at times to talk because he had so much anger the last few years.  Not abusive, just anger.  We both had to work. When we talked, sometimes the conversation was hurtful toward me.  That made it harder.  But he did not feel it was a problem for a while.

As I have said before we had routine.  Kiss goodbye, kiss hello, kiss goodnight.  No pecks, real kisses.  They really began to connect us.  Sleep all night in the same bed.  Sit next to each other.  Hold hands.  Caress each other. Touch, touch, touch.  Sometimes we did this and it was not fun at all.  But it began to work its magic.  We were a do it yourself project.  I pulled things from lots of websites and came up with a hodgepodge to try.  Some were hilarious.  Some  worked.  Some did not work. 

We started a Spotify playlist that is titled Love.  It now has 7 hours of music.  We have added songs that sound like how we feel.  How this has made us feel.  It is fun to listen to our songs.  It has drawn us closer.  Here is are links to three of our favorites:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGs8vtjDxxY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThnePX8ghfo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnmauhGp5JI

Enjoy


983
Ages 20-29 / Re: My Reboot
« on: March 30, 2014, 11:01:20 AM »
I just want to say, you have time.  Someday, and yes it will happen, you will be a great husband because you will have worked through all this.  It will be worth it.  It can happen. 

You are a good person.  How do I know?  Because you are trying to get yourself past this.  You see a need to improve yourself.  You see a way to improve yourself.  Not many people reach this in their whole lives.  So keep going one day at a time.  It took you years to get to this point.  So just keep going forward.  A failure day is not a failure.  It is not a failure because you noticed.  A lot of people here say that they did their porn thing mindlessly for hours.  You have noticed.  That means it is a hesitation in the road on the way to recovery.  You are not back at the beginning.

Be kind to yourself!

984
Porn Addiction / Gabe's 16x9 video
« on: March 30, 2014, 10:50:46 AM »
I just watched the video.  Gabe, I want to say Thanks for sharing your story!  I am a lot older than you and going through this with my husband.  But I worry about my sons (yes we have talked to them) and grandsons.  Your girlfriend needs kudos for being there with you.  If your story only changes one, it is worth it.  But I feel it will change many and get many more thinking in a different way.  Here is the link.

AGAIN THANK YOU for making change happen!

The live chat is at 8 eastern time March 31st

Link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRehA9C0ajQ#aid=P9vkUsVt4Tw

985
Porn Addiction / Communication
« on: March 30, 2014, 07:16:06 AM »
I had this in the over 40 section but thought I would move it here.  I have seen in several posts that isolation and not being able to communicate with others has helped set up the pattern of porn use. 

This also offered some insight in how the two people in a relationship communicate and what they may truly need.  I put this in the 40 up section.  It is about Hold Me Tight the book.  This book is about our need for attachment and how our culture has taught us to not be dependent on others.  And we need some dependence in order to connect with our partners.  I thought it reflected the disconnection that occurs that I frequently read about in posts and shows how both partners fall into this pattern of communication that does not give them what they need.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200812/hold-me-tight

986
Partners of Rebooters and Addicts / Re: Book that might help couples
« on: March 30, 2014, 07:10:51 AM »
Trust me in this book, the authors are very gentle with both the addicted and the partner.  There are a few exercises that help you understand more.  It was the most help of all.  It talks about the attachment to each other and what it really means to the SO.  They use examples that make sense.  It is not a scholarly theoretical book.  It is real world.

He also has a blog: http://markchamberlainphd.blogspot.com/  This blog has tabs across the top for both the porn user and the partner.  Then there are articles that are archived down the right hand side of the page.  Go to the oldest ones first and then read forward.  They are very direct in how they address a lot of issues and questions around porn addictiion.  They also give information for the user to help them understand how to deal with making new choices.  There was nothing that came close to the help this was.

This also offered some insight in how partners communicate and what they may truly need.  I put this in the 40 up section.  It is about Hold Me Tight the book.  This book is about our need for attachment and how our culture has taught us to not be dependent on others.  And we need some in order to connect with our partners.  I thought it reflected the disconnection that occurs that I frequently read about on these boards and shows how both partners fall into this pattern of communication that does not give them what they need.

987
Women / Re: Surprise
« on: March 29, 2014, 06:52:00 AM »
It is so helpful to post and go back over this.  But only small bits at a time.  Obviously, I went to see grandkids for a week.  While there, we would have phone conversations.  I did not understand how he could do this to me.  I felt worthless.  I felt like he had been unfaithful.  (Yes I know there are those that say it is not the same.  But it felt the same to me.)  I really feel the unfaithful view came from him not being with me.  We did not do things together.  He did not talk.  He was mad a lot over nothing.  He had even found a reason not to sleep with me. (I never said I had too much pain for him to be with me or even acted that way)  I literally thought there was someone else.  The only thing that kept me from going totally down that road was he was home all the time.   

When I came home, I let him know what he had been doing was unacceptable.  I could not live like that.  It was hard giving him my needs for us to go forward.  I felt so off balance.  I had little self esteem left.  But I did tell him what I needed.  Our situation did not involve the internet.  It was only what was on late night tv or programs with nudity.  So, I told him we were going to bed at the same time every night and sleeping in the same bed.  I also said that we would be hugging.  This helped give me a measure of security.  Like I have said before, the routine was most helpful.

But then I said I did not like being around him.  I would find reasons to visit people and be away every day.  I finally said this is not working.  We need to do something different to make this work.  I then started reading about porn.  A lot of what I got as I started looking was that women should just accept it as a part of life.  All guys do it.  And that is what my husband said.  He was sorry, but all guys did it.  Welll, I knew that I could not live like that so I kept looking.  I found Mark Chamberlain's blog Love You Hate the Porn very early on.  I read it and all the archived things like a man in the desert finding water.  I had him read them.  I don't think he realized he had a problem until we read those things.  After I found that, I was able to use links he had to link to other sites.  Success, right?

Well on the porn front yes.  But I started into a horrible depression.  I could not work, I could not function.  I even considered suicide.  From my messed up past I brought baggage into my marriage. (Surprise!)  I had been so mistreated by physical abuse and emotional abuse I had decided I would not be in that ever again.  That no one would hurt me.  I stayed single a long time to make sure.  My husband was the one.  And then this.  I felt so betrayed and stupid.  I felt stupid that I did not know, I did not see this coming, I did not realize how it would affect me.  It sucked the life right out.  I was so hurt.  My husband said I looked like a wounded animal.  I was wounded.  Later he convinced me to go on an anitdpressant.  That literally saved my life.

Sorry this is long.  But it does help to write. 


988
Partners of Rebooters and Addicts / Re: Book that might help couples
« on: March 28, 2014, 12:52:05 PM »
I have read it.  My husband and I read it together.  I marked passages that showed how I felt or sometimes what I thought.  But only those that were mine.  He then read it and marked those things that he felt.  We talked as we read.  It helped a lot.  Mark Chambelain's Blog is also amazing in helping.  Lots of good stuff and all the old stuff is archived. 

If not for this book, I do not think we would have made it.

989
Ages 40 and up / Re: Get Busy Livin' or Get Busy Dyin'
« on: March 27, 2014, 08:17:40 PM »
Reading your post I was reminded by something my husband said this last summer.  After much consideration, I bought a gun.  I wanted to learn to shoot.  We were out at a friend's house, and my husband was teaching me about guns and shooting.  And as I was shooting and enjoying this newfound knowledge, my husband said he never thought we would be doing this together, not in a million years.  So do not discount our ability to learn something new or something that we said we would never do in our life.  We have a new closeness as a result.  Love and connection is an amazing thing!

990
Ages 40 and up / Re: Cosmo's Journal
« on: March 26, 2014, 01:05:35 PM »
I just want to say that when it comes to disclosure, I do not think that all that was viewed is necessary, especially at initial disclosure.  We are not ready to hear the total thing all at once.  And I don't think most men are ready to tell it all at that moment.  As time goes on you will find you can say more.  I know when I tell my husband something about this that he wants me to watch (like ogling as an example) he gets mad and starts saying get over it, do you want a divorce?  And I just say, you were looking and I tell him how I know.  So I know he feels like a failure.  We just talked about this.  I told him I saw what he was afraid of.  And gently remind him that through the last 2 years, never have I said divorce.  That is his fear.  Knowing what he is dealing with, and talking to him, enables us to talk more.  And even though it is painful, we are definitely closer. 

991
Ages 40 and up / Re: Cosmo's Journal
« on: March 25, 2014, 04:52:25 PM »
You are right every situation is different.  It took a long time for us to work through the pain.  BUT and this is a big one, I would have preferred he told me.  He did not tell me.  I walked in on it.  I discovered it.  Having been through the discovery, I can say telling would have made working through it much easier.

And trust me, you cannot keep it hid forever.  If something happens to you, sickness, death or grandkids or kids, imaging someone finding your stash however you have it stored.  Imagine your family dealing with that discovery.  I know there are lots of ways to look at this.  But for all the reasons I mentioned, I think as a partner I have the need to know this.  Then we can talk.  Then we can discover what is at the root. 

992
Women / Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
« on: March 24, 2014, 10:25:08 PM »
I understand about the bed thing.  There were times I did not want to be there either as we have a tv in the bedroom and he would watch on it when I was away.  It felt like "they" were in the room.  We now never have the tv on in the bedroom. 

I needed those things to be that way.  I needed us to have a routine to make me feel secure again even if we were struggling.  We had night time hugs and kisses and full body hugs.  Sometimes they were in enjoyable, sometimes they were part of the routine.  But, we did these things everyday.  We are able to come home for lunch and so we did that as well.  And we would talk and talk and talk.  Mostly me.  And I did research and looking for help all the time.  But the routine, no matter what was the biggest help to me.  I basically told him it has to be this way, or it won't work.  I did know what I needed somewhat to get from one day to the next.

I was not prepared for the dislike that he seemed to have.  There were no jokes or anything like that.  He would be angry very angry about the whole thing.  And then he began to hear me.  I even kept a journal with me to write in when I was frustrated during the day.  Several entries say, "he finally gets what I am saying."  It took an entire year before he really got it.  But now, it is easier.

I feel for you having this come back for a second go round.  I know this has to be tough.  Just know that there are people here that do care and we are great listeners.  Sorry this is so long.

993
Women / Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
« on: March 24, 2014, 06:31:47 AM »
SO I think the hard part is turning it all over to them.  Because then we have to trust them.  Trust that they think our marriage is worth it.  Trust them after we have just found out they stomped all over our trust.  Trust that they want to change.  Trust that they are being truthful now.  I kept hearing this is the truth and then some little thing we get added.  It was testing me I guess.  I was like good god just spit it all out, let my wound only be ripped open once!  But as he discovered more, the wound would either open and bleed or open and seep.  So difficult to stay focused.  So I became depressed. 

Anyway, we had the go to bed at same time rule and no getting up in the night.  Only bathroom.  If we couldn[t sleep, we turned on bedside light and read.  He got up one time and I had a fit.  Slept on the couch like in the porn past.  I woke him up.  He said see remote is over there.  I said you just put it there when ready to sleep.  No more....you must be in bed all night.  That gave me the most security.  Funny how it is just some things that are not negotiable.

994
Women / Re: Surprise
« on: March 23, 2014, 12:23:03 PM »
Yes I know it is a way to unwind.  The problem comes when the wife or partner is turned away from.  Which is the beginning of my story.  This may come in bits and pieces because sometimes it is difficult to recall as it is still painful.

I knew something was wrong because we were not having sex very often.  His idea of tonight's the night was to slap me on the butt at some point during the day.  And of course then I dreaded it because it did not feel like making love.  I tried to say sit next to me, hold my hand, talk to me.  But he would sit in his recliner play solitaire on his palm pilot and watch tv.  He would have to stay up late because he wasn't sleepy. I went to bed to early.  Then I had some painful health issues so he would stay and sleep on couch so I could have the bed.  We had all the movie channels so he would watch.  In fact he would make sure I was in bed, had taken my medicine to help me sleep all around 10 which was when the porn would be on.  Every night.  I started to think he wanted to leave me.  We were in our late 50's and I thought is this it roomates forever?  I thought he was watching and there were little things.   I will talk about them later.  And then as we always did, we had sex before we would be apart because of a trip.  We had sex before I went to visit grandkids.  I woke up and went downstairs for a drink and Cinemax was on with porn.  He had fell asleep with it on.  Right after we had sex.  I was devastated and was yelling and hollering and hurt and crying.  He said Jesus Christ I was asleep.  I said bull shit!  Then the next day  i had to leave to go away for a week.  It was awful!  Will post more later.

995
Women / Re: Surprise
« on: March 11, 2014, 02:52:48 PM »
First off, Gabe thank you for your response.  It seems from reading through men's journals when a wife or partner gets ill, it suddenly means no sex.  That is very disturbing to me.  That thought never crossed my mind when my husband had back surgery.  And perhaps men should try to reach out past themselves and see the forest not just the tree.  It would help so much.  And perhaps that is a good way to start.  In one area of your life, think about your wife or partner or someone else and how they would view what you are doing.  Not porn at the beginning, but how you do housework, do laudry, shop for groceries, do yard work.  View something you do from another's point of view.  i know that when my husband and I started working through this, we had to look at how we talked to each other and others, how we treated each other and ourselves.  We had to make sure what we said actually came out in a way that we understood.  A lot of times my husband would react and I would say that is not what I thought I was saying.  I had to look at how we weren't hearing each other.  Looking at ourselves from another's viewpoint helped a lot.

996
Women / Surprise
« on: March 09, 2014, 01:08:22 AM »
 :)Hello, there are familiar looking people here.  I am here because a year and a half ago, I discovered my husband's porn use.  So, It was a surprise!  (name of my journal)  I will try in the next few days to go over that experience.  We are well on our way to finally getting through this.  But I see so much pain in the addicted and their partners trying to work this out.  Hopefully, as I tell the story, there will be things learned.  Good to be in a place that will hopefully not be upset when we talk about the feelings we have being betrayed.  For from time to time we really do not understand what got us and our partner here.  Sometimes we can't keep ourselves going let alone the partner.

The first question I will ask is, when a woman gets sick, why does a man turn to porn rather than talk to a wife of 25 years about what she could do?  or in light of the added chores, decides porn is the way to unwind.

That is where I will begin my next post.

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