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Messages - quitforeverthenwin2

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Ages 20-29 / Re: Kraken's journal
« on: May 02, 2020, 12:33:09 AM »
Hey man, glad to hear the update.

Sounds to me like cutting out gaming 100%, at least temporarily, is the way to go. Gaming has been a recurring theme for months and months that I have seen in the journal, maybe years. But again it'd have to be something that you really want to do. Like quitting P, it's a decision and commitment that you'd have to make yourself.

Perhaps set aside a chunk of time, hours even, to reflect on the video games and what you want to do about them.

Ages 20-29 / Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« on: May 02, 2020, 12:26:30 AM »
Hey all, had an urge just recently but overall doing very well

Ages 20-29 / Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« on: April 28, 2020, 08:58:24 PM »
Thanks! I have been feeling a bit sad on off and off today and the support really helps me to feel better.

Really I can trace the bad feeling to talking to some girls today, we did yoga in the park. Then we talked a bit at the end I was uncertain and was like "see you around". I guess I just feel really bad and lonely about that, like I really want that company, to be around women. I just moved as well and feel a bit unsettled, but once I adapt I bet it'll be good.

Ages 20-29 / Re: Not gonna go it alone
« on: April 28, 2020, 08:56:05 PM »
Great that you got that assignment done.

What happened leading up to entering that website? Can that be examined further? Was there a moment where you were conscious of what you were doing?

I have been having urges as well and find that having a alternative activity ready to go really helpful!

Ages 20-29 / Re: Not gonna go it alone
« on: April 26, 2020, 05:38:04 PM »
Glad to hear you're still on track. Congrats on finishing school!

These are strange times to say the least!

Ages 20-29 / Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« on: April 24, 2020, 01:40:34 AM »
Thanks bro!

Wow been awhile since I updated this journal. Been dealing with some drama today feeling indignant. Someone acting pretty insane and accusing me of nonsense. I guess I got into one of those "argue with pigs roll around in the mud" situations. Just reminding myself that it will pass.

Over all building some good momentum, exercising a lot

Ages 20-29 / Re: Not gonna go it alone
« on: April 22, 2020, 09:03:03 PM »
Sounds like things are going well!

If zoom is draining for you then definitely a great move to see how you feel without it.

Great insight that creativity is energizing for you! I read a book recently and it talked at length about that, anything healthy that is energizing is time well spent! The time invested is more then paid back in increased productivity plus it just plain makes life better!

Ages 20-29 / Re: Kraken's journal
« on: April 19, 2020, 05:42:09 PM »
Man super inspiring bro! Really glad to hear that things have continued to go so well for you.

Keep up the good work and awesome that you are working on the new habits. Huge congrats on the great relationship and sex with your girlfriend!

Ages 20-29 / Re: Not gonna go it alone
« on: April 13, 2020, 02:40:09 PM »
Hey man! For sure this quarantine stuff can be tough! Keep your chin up.

I am finding using zoom video (assuming it is not triggering) is really helping with the isolation, there are lots of online events going on at the moment.

Ages 20-29 / Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« on: March 22, 2020, 05:50:30 PM »
Thanks for the support and feedback guys! It's pretty on the money. Life pretty crazy right now! But I guess it is for almost everyone

Wow, that is great man. Congradulations. Keep it up! Is there anything you did differently today or leading up to today that you can make note of for the future?

Ages 20-29 / Re: Could not have sex (again) :(
« on: March 14, 2020, 11:42:28 AM »
Keep up the good work man! I agree that I don't think you need a doctor just because you came fast. The first time I had sex I had PIED ( I didn't know it) and the second time I came in like seconds lol.

It'll definitely get better!

Ages 20-29 / Re: Taking care of myself no matter what
« on: March 14, 2020, 11:36:23 AM »
That sounds like a helpful idea. At least to start with. You can also maybe have a few days a week when you take off from masturbation. Before I found out about PIED. I thought I had "death grip syndrome" and the advice there was to MO less often and with a gentle grip. 

Great job on avoiding the images!

Ages 20-29 / Re: Journal - A New Hope
« on: March 14, 2020, 11:33:42 AM »
Welcome to the forum man. I think you put it well, porn is not the only thing we want to change but perhaps the most important thing!

Ages 20-29 / Re: Not gonna go it alone
« on: March 14, 2020, 11:18:50 AM »
Cool you've got the day counter/goal going again! That worked great for you so cool to bring it back. I know what you mean, I have a mild cold so have been staying home out of courtesy for others, but it is an adjustment for sure.

I really like the way you are looking at it proactively! Being home more can mean any number of things, it's our job to make it mean the positive things.

Ages 20-29 / Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« on: March 14, 2020, 11:15:53 AM »
Thanks bro!

Honestly still been off track. MOing a decent amount of the days. Guess I gotta claw my way out. Perhaps it's a good idea to post more again.

Tried having MO a part of my recovery very quick message NOPE(at least for now). Also been posting less and having trouble getting some distance from mo and thats not working, so going to post.

It is quite difficult to stop myself from MO at the moment, but I'll remind myself that once I get some distance it is far far easier. Just gotta get through these first few weeks.

I guess it sort of became a bit normal.

Well let me motivate myself:
Stopping this MO will mean MORE TIME.
And knowing my penis will work for when I do meet a girl.

Those things are pretty darn worth it!

Edit: Just a thing I noticed. Generally my "slips" have involved glancing at porn and porn substitutes. My recent slips have been MOing with porn influenced fantasy. But I notice the after affect is not as powerful as even the looking at porn was. Not saying it is good/okay, it's not! (MO with porn fantasy definetly no good, even if MO in future is okay). But is makes me rethink a little bit on how I was operating. It felt like when I MO'd that was a "real" relapse, porn or no porn. But looking at porn sites, escort sites (even texting them!) I kind of viewed as my streak still going. I notice though, that stuff seemed to REALLY mess with my emotions and feelings/ brain chemistry way more then MO does. Again this does not mean MO is okay (for the moment, though it may never be okay). But I am seeing that P without MO (for me) is actually much worse then MO without P. Something to be aware of in the future. Like I used to have urges to MO and instead look at P substitues "instead" of that because I could more easily rationalize it was not a lapse, I now know in terms effect it seemed to have on me, that was not the case.

Ages 20-29 / Re: Not gonna go it alone
« on: March 10, 2020, 02:41:38 PM »
Great job getting back on the horse so quickly! Keep up the good work. Like it was said, a mistake here and there does not erase all the progress!

I was thinking, there is even some luck involved in all this, when life hits us at certain times, how solid our recovery is at that moment. I lost my job, and was wayyyy on edge. Then while meditating the neighbor was super noisy and I got frustrated and that was the straw that got me. Maybe if I was a month further along, or if I had actually commited to meditating a month or two ago as I had mentioned (that one is not really luck) that would have gotten me through it. This isn't to not take responsibility, more so I view it as a hopeful thing. It sucks to have the relapses but we may have been just 1% away from avoiding them and can get there in the future.

Ages 20-29 / Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« on: March 10, 2020, 02:33:49 PM »
Thanks bro, great point it's just one day.

So far the MO in moderation is not working. I am not necessarily deciding to never MO again. But a period after this relapse of cutting it out, makes sense. I also may cut it out permanently.

Anyways, felt rough for awhile there, but on the upswing. Staying busy.

Ages 20-29 / Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« on: March 02, 2020, 10:19:59 PM »
Dude great analogy about the alcoholic not drinking water, that is how it felt. The last 3 weeks genuinely were not manageable. As far as not throwing the baby out with the bathwater, I think it goes the two ways: Not throwing away all sexuality AND not throwing away everything i was doing to avoid the porn addiction. Stuff like the Smart recovery tools were working amazing. Thinking now a whole host of things could have probably prevented my relapse.

My therapist was on vacation for the last two weeks, I think seeing him once or twice would have lowered my stress enough to get through the first day I started looking at P subs, it at least would have happened later. Had I not lost the job Ditto I would say. But who knows, the no sex thoughts I think may have led to something like this anyway.

Was feeling bad still today called my mom and she said come over NOW. So I spent the am with her and all afternoon with a friend joking around and stuff. Being easy on myself, but thats okay I guess. I was truly in a bad place for some days, so going from that to feeling okay and having fun with a friend is as much progress as I could hope for, so no need to be hard on myself for not say progressing on goals. I needed some recovery mentally from the job firing anyhow, it really was messing with my head, huge amounts of doubt

Ages 20-29 / Re: Not gonna go it alone
« on: March 02, 2020, 01:45:41 AM »
Damn bro, sorry to hear about the relapse but I have to laugh a little at the ridiculous irony/power of our mind meld! Just updated my journal then went in to support you and did not expect this. I could have flirted with calling my previous days "grey area" but Saturday was my real relapse day too! I am kind of shocked. We both had 100+ days in terms of not full blown relapse with MO.

The interesting thing is our approach that we want to go in moving forward seems to be pretty much the opposite. So I have lots of experience with 12 step, in 12 step speak all my ideas about changing what I did and seeing a pattern in relapse are me "rationalizing" and are all part of the addiction, which I am powerless to. So it's really a pretty big difference in way of looking at things. At least that is what I was thoroughly taught in my local 12 step groups.

But hey at the end of the day all that matters is success! If 12 step works for you then that is awesome. Especially given that you already have faith it could work and be a good fit. I know that Russel Brand has a book about 12 step, and even for me, not a fan of the program I found some good knowledge in the AA book. That's the basis for the 12 step program and more in depth then the SAA (sex addicts anonymous) book. Also don't get me wrong, just because 12 step I don't consider the program for me it is full of a lot of  great people.

I totally relate to fighting this feeling like a job, and though in different ways, I think we both want to move away from that.

I know 12 step a huge part of it is about "not going it alone" which I know you can relate to, so if 12 step is the way you want to go, there are most definitely meetings you can go to as well as online meetings you can go to. In general I think that moving more toward a real support group that has  a proven system that works is a great idea for both of us. I am moving more into using SMART recovery's systems, and taking the advice of someone with loads of success there and perhaps you want to move into 12 step.

I had been thinking this for awhile, not to knock on the forums but there is no real system in place to follow that is consistent. Whereas for me SMART has that, a science based system with 1000s of people having success with it. And 12 step perhaps is that group and system for you, a faith based system also with 1000s maybe 10s of 1000s of people having success with it, if we count all the 12 step groups actually it could be millions.

Well man, cheers to some changes in our recovery and building on it in whatever way works best for us as well as building up our lives!

Ages 20-29 / Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« on: March 02, 2020, 01:23:11 AM »
Thanks for the great insights man!

Unfortunately I pretty much full on relapsed. I did not MO while looking at P, but I did all sorts of stuff then after MO'd many times. To say I have been feeling pretty down is an understatement. Just now I was feeling unbelievably sorry for myself but coming to the forum I feel a bit better.

So: I have had 4 100 plus day streaks more or less (my best steaks I do not count days). One of them I was doing before 12 step and when I went in to 12 step I was told I had no control yadda yadda and would relapse if I hadn't completed the steps, I came to believe that and i did relapse.

ALL other streaks I lost by trying to cut out all sex fantasy. ALL OF THEM. Each time I felt I had it beat that is what happened. It is not my imagination it is not like I have some disease and I am trying to rationalize that I can control it..... I would be doing very well decide that I shouldn't be fantasizing about girls/sex aim to cut it out, set goals for it etc. then relapse afterwards EVERY TIME.

It doesn't make sense. Do I fantasize about sex more then average? Sure. Is it a problem. NO. I am tired of making that damn mistake and relapsing. So I am not attempting to be A-sexual ever again. Each time I'd cut out fantasy I have morning wood for a few days, but guess what? After relapsing mo'ing like 5x I had even bigger morning wood the next day.... so morning wood is not always a perfect indicator or what I am doing is working.

There is actual no real negative effect on my life of fantasizing about girls in a realistic/vanilla way. Unless I obsess about one girl. The times when I was clean of PMO and in relationships with girls I absolutely did fantasize about them, and I'd tell them the things I fantasized about, they liked it and it also boosted my confidence during sex, it was like mental rehearsal. Fantasy is something where moderation is actually the winning ticket.

Anyways, none of this is rationalization or anything. I am not rationalizing like porn is okay or porn fetish fantasy is okay it is NOT I know that for sure. But I see a pattern in my relapses they all follow the exact same mechanics. I don't understand why I did it 3 times, but I am not doing it again.

I will keep things simple:

Ta da that is all. NEVER trying to completely cut out all thoughts of girls or sex again. What is the cost benefit analysis? Like fantasing about girls in a healthy way has never given me PIED, it doesn't make me feel anxious and like shit the next day. I just felt like I shouldn't be doing it because it was lame or not strict enough or something. The downside of cutting it out has been going full blown into porn in the past.

So I spoke with someone who successfully overcame a serious sex addiction and has helped many other people in similar situations. He also said cutting out all masturbation can be a problem for some guys and recommended trying masturbating on an exact schedule, two days per week, I will ad on it'll be evenings only. I am planning to try this as well.

I know I tried masturbating being okay and it did not work, but that is different from having EXACT reasonable limits on it. He advised that once per a day, for example, is enough to keep PIED alive, so less is better.

I can't really think of a super rational reason to not masturbate at all.

Anyway, I won't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Writing often about why porn and porn fetish fantasy are harmful and I want to quit, worked superbly well. Trying to quit all fantasy totally did not.

Now, I think there is some psychology/ rebound effect at work. So I had no thoughts of sex at all for say 21 days, then I "gave in" and fantasized about a girl I went on a date with for a little bit, I felt like I had failed (this all happened very fast) and I also felt a strong urge for fetish fantasy so in minutes I was fetish fantasizing then soon after I felt I failed so I looked at an escort website, and I failed on that commitment so I kept looking for days.... until I mo ed many times yestarday.

So is sex fantasy a problem? After all I did fetish fantasize in MINUTES afterward. But here is the thing..... I spent probably 3 months no P, no fetish fantasy, while fantasizing about sex MOST nights. I made goals to not fantasize about sex but I made a concious decision that it was not a priority and it was okay to break it, until this last time which led to this relapse. Again I have seen no actual negative effects to fantasizing about sex other then me judging myself for it (not saying this applies to all). I do have a good amount of sexual experience with girls so these fantasies are not porn influenced (I know when they are and THAT I do not allow).

As far as MO. This is just something I am willing to try. For a few weeks. I remember I wanted so badly not to mo years ago that I thought "instead of moing, I'll contact an escort!" and I did, getting myself off mentally by the text exchange etc. That is a hell of a lot worse them Moing. I have done that many times, feeling urges/ horny and doing crazy shit rather then MO. Not saying moing is the answer to an urge, but is it really (for me) as bad as those other actions I took instead?

I have been having trouble on dates huge trouble in part because I am overwhelmingly desparate. Like ridiculously desparate....
And like that crazy sexual impulsivness, I did not used to have that, at all. I have talked to several friends who did no fap and they all said the same (again not saying this applies to everyone!). Plus when I came yestarday, from masturbating. THAT is the moment when I felt awful, like I felt dirty, this is disgusting, look how gross you are etc. Are those rational thoughts? Like is masturbation, really evil? Why is the masturbating the moment where I felt I truly relapsed and not when I was freaking texting escorts and considering that a gray area?

Thoughts like that, which I have seen on other no fap forums make me question some of my ideas. I have a long history of making life harder then it needs to be.... Before I knew what PIED was, I read about "death grip" syndrome. I was motivated to fix it and I read to masturbate one time per week with a gentle grip. I did this without a problem and had some of the best erections and morning wood of my life. If I choose to, I can choose to masturbate 2x per week. If my penis works well and I feel better why not continue with that?

If it does not work well then I can go back to "old faithful"
No P fant/ actions.
And then don't worry about anything else, such as thinking of girls etc. just keep it simple. Anyways. Thanks for the support blue. I was feeling really really bad lately. (Did I even post that I lost my job last week?) Glad to get back here and realize I am not powerless. I tried something in my reboot, that doesn't work I have enough proof now.

I may post a bit less, I have had good success just not thinking too much about rebooting before. Also all of my longest P free periods I did not count days, so I'll probably go for that too

Ages 20-29 / Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« on: February 26, 2020, 11:50:43 PM »
Really strong urges now. Feel like the attempt not to fantasize about sex at all might not be worth it

Ages 20-29 / Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« on: February 26, 2020, 09:18:54 PM »
No idea what is up with the site, me too I actually have only viewed other parts of the sites one time other then the journal.

Thanks man you are 100% on the money about everything. That is the way to go with the fantasies. The goal is to let them go, not to not have them.

I remember you writing about that with the girl! Also on the money.

I think I was feeling that since I so much wanted to fantasize look at that girl etc. that it was almost like I did, but feeling that "want" and overcoming it is what beating addiction is all about.

Had a nice date, not super attracted to the girl but she is very sweet and positive. I was over thinking like "oh I don't want her as a girlfriend, what if she wants me as her boyfriend I hurt her feeling etc." total bs. Just enjoy it one step at a time. I enjoyed hanging out with her and i think going on a date was great for my mental health! Less urges after the date and feeling some real connection with a real girl even with minimal touching.

Ages 20-29 / Re: Not gonna go it alone
« on: February 26, 2020, 09:15:01 PM »
That is great! A system for goals rocks, more mind meld! Just yestarday I made up a little notebook to track what I have done to work on my goals each day

Ages 20-29 / Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
« on: February 26, 2020, 11:24:28 AM »
Day 22! Still been limping along but I got 3 weeks! Thoughts of girls popping into my head but have no indulged. I feel a bit torn part of me feels like I could have done better, stopping them sooner but I am not sure. Like they last seconds, but i can feel my body react strongly to them. Well the way I categorize things is CONCIOUS fantasy is the problem. I think sometimes new behaviours just feel so unnatural I almost feel like I am not doing them?

That may not make sense but an example, I was in yoga class and we were about to go into a position where I'd have a view of a girl in a very triggering/enticing position. I closed my eyes and kept them closed, but the whole time I felt like man I want to see that so bad and felt the urge in my body. I felt like I was looking and my mind was not on bored with my eyes closed, even though I did keep them closed. Almost like a feeling of disassociation toward the positive action and the urge felt more "real" then what i was actually doing. I don't think it's a big deal, thats actually a win, being able to control my actions regardless of feelings and urges, just something to keep in mind. That this odd phenominum makes me feel like I am not succeeding, not doing the right things even if I am.

Yestarday was super tough, I felt very mad about losing the job and betrayed, but I got through it. Just did my workout felt really weak and it frustrated me a bit, the job I had I wasn't sleeping as much and it took tons of energy so it threw me off a bit, maybe on Friday I will purposelly go light in the gym so I can recover and progress again

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