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Messages - KidQuick

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1
Ages 40 and up / Re: KidQuick's Journal (46 year old married male)
« on: May 04, 2015, 09:03:32 AM »

Here's an awesome discussion on the rebooters, like me, who are taking a longer time to reboot.

http://www.yourbrainrebalanced.com/index.php?topic=9229.0

I have recently started Ming without P. I've never been able to do that before. I always had to climb into the old noggin and fantasize. Recently, just experimenting, I've been able to actually O just by focussing on the sensation. Reading the discussion above has confirmed that it may be a good idea at this point to start doing that. It appears that long term hard abstinence might have a negative effect on the reboot process. I say might and may because everyone is different .

It's nice seeing signs of progress. Not only am I able to M without P, but I have the confidence to take that chance, to make adjustments. I find myself willing to talk to people more, and I am struggling less and less for what to say.

2
Ages 40 and up / Re: KidQuick's Journal (46 year old married male)
« on: April 30, 2015, 09:38:40 AM »
It's been awhile. Just wanted to pass something on.

I was researching something recently that related to ED. I haven't really been cured. I'm still working on it. But I'm trying to figure out what is going on. Why, after all this time, have I not progressed further? Is there anything I could be doing better? I don't say that out of frustration, or anger, but more a honest curious interest and desire to take steps needed.

See, I am in an odd spot right now. I don't really feel like I am in a flatline. I'm not getting erections, but emotionally, I just feel like I am passed that. I don't really have a lot of anxiety, maybe a little nervousness, but not alot of anxiety like some of my earlier posts. I'm starting to get a little excited in the mornings, but no full blown erections. I haven't edged.

I can't remember what I was researching, but I do remember this one post I found. It's interesting, because, although this may have been covered indirectly on YBOP and other posts here, I don't remember reading anything that said it this plainly, or effected me the way this one post did. 

Simply put, it is not enough to stop looking at porn. I need to replace porn with something else. I have been thinking for so long that porn is the problem. Thus, no more porn, no more problem. But that may not be true. The answer may not be that simple. I need to replace porn with something else too. I need to find something else that will give me that same excitement that porn does. I'm not talking about erections, but that desire to pursue. I need to find something that I am so excited about doing that I get excited to do, that I crave to do when I have nothing to do. Again, I'm not talking about sexual excitement here. I think that's what is happening when the posters here are pursuing exercise as the replacement. Not only are there health benefits to exercise, but the body craves the physical activity, once you condition it into a habit. I'm not saying exercise is the only answer. What I am saying is that I thought all I had to do was just stop looking at porn and thinking about porn and continue to live my life as I had been. I was wrong. I need to find something else, develop an intense interest in that, and train my brain to use that as its dopamine trigger.

I also definitely need to get outside more.

Here's the link where I found the post http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=147049783

There are a lot of entries on that blog though, so the particular post that hit home for me is copied below. It also has some good comments on the effects of p and m.

Part 3 - Fapping without porn - EDIT: This post took me 5 minutes 34 seconds to read at an average pace. It is worth it especially if you are FOREVERALONE, underachiever, depressed, dontevenlift.

Although I was back to fapping once a week. Now and then I would binge for several days consecutively but this was rare. Happened for say 3 days every 2 months. I would slowly get more depressed in my routine and then I would binge. Then I would stop and go back to my old routine. Repeat Repeat.

One day I decided well why don't I fap without porn. Simple as that I don't know what prompted me to do so but one thing was for certain brahs. Instead of 10 minutes and a mediocre orgasm it took me about 20 and **** brahs was it the best orgasm I had in months honnestly. See the thing with porn is that it helps us become easily aroused. We don't need to make an effort we don't need to use our imagination and it is so easy and convinient. The issue is though while it is easy it simply doesn't feel as good. You keep going you orgasm and that is it afterwards you don't even care, but you are disappointed if you go on a ****ty part of the clip.

You are not thinking about what feels good, you are thinking about the image you are seeing on the screen and after 10 minutes you say to yourself OH THIS IS THE GOOD PART TIME TO FINISH. This is unnatural and this is what is actually conditioning us in a negative way. You are not in control of what you are viewing you are simply selecting a clip that has already been choreographed and you are doing exactly what the director expects of you. You also become desensitized just look at the ads that are up on these sites these days and you will see how they have become much more violent.

So porn is a large factor and it conditions your mind in a very negative way. I will talk about porn in my final post but what I want to talk about next is habits. Porn is a hard habit to break and it's designed that way but your focus shouldn't simply be that PORN IS BAD IF I CUT THAT OUT THINGS WILL GET BETTER. For some of you who are desensitized you have much more to gain but to the rest of us cutting porn doesn't mean everything will change. It is a misconception.

This is why I decided to make this thread NO-FAP came about because we realize our lives suck and we want to change it for the better. Some of us are not addicted to porn but our lives still suck and we are still foreveralone. WHY is this? There is so much emphasis on NO-FAP people earlier in this thread pointed out that it's all in your mind and that is the truth but words won't change your life, understanding and repetitive action will change your life.

We are not foreveralone because of one particular thing in our lifes and things wont change if we decide to cut things out, things will only change if we add things in. See its logical that there are no quick fixes in life and the world as we know it is set up so that people create their wealth at our expense. You see a fat dude coming out of McDonalds and it makes you disgust, you keep a strict exercise and diet routine (if you lift) and you may rage at how someone can let themselves go like this, then you go home and convince your girlfriend that it would be sexy if she gags on your cock because thats what you have repeatedly fapped to on brazzers. Hundreds of marketers in the porn industry are thinking of new ways to keep you coming back for more and more 'exciting' content just like hundreds of marketers at fast food chains spend hours devising new ways to get people to consume more in a single sitting. You see things at face value, you cant blame other people and you cant expect to have a fufilling life unless you completely change your environment and routine to meet that and for some of us it means cutting down internet recreational time, limiting MISC to two hours, two days per week AND THEN FILLING ALL THAT EMPTY TIME WITH SOMETHING THAT GETS YOU OUT OF THE HOUSE!


We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit You have all heard this but do you truly understand it???! how does it translate into what you do today and over the rest of the week, month year. It takes years to build a good physique we KNOW this! It's a long time Rome was not built in a day! Yet some of us are still MISCing we look back and think wow the last year has gone by so quick, then you look in the mirror and you look exactly the same. Your bench has not been going up week by week maybe you havent even been in the gym for weeks.

I'm not telling you anything new, i'm not telling you anything you don't already know. So why are their hundreds if not thousands of NO-FAPPERS all accross the internet, why are their so many threads with hundreds of pages fixated on this one topic? There are more NO-FAP threads than there are PROGRESS threads on the MISC, this says a little something already.

The people who have achieved the gains in the NO-FAP threads that leave the others in awe are the ones that made a fundamental difference in their lives. They made a psychological decision that they were worth going back to school, taking a grand in savings and going backpacking for 2 weeks immersing themselves in a completely different environment for an extended period, applying for that new job that they thought was above them, approaching that cute girl or just speaking to people they dont know in class. They didn't just cut things out of their lives, they filled things in. I can't tell the reader of this post what to do because everyone is unique, you may have some savings and think well OP said backpacking is good - well then do it because you will do things that you probably havent for months. You may apply for that job and fail but you cant quit you have to keep going and take steps to improve your CV. This is what the successors of NO-FAP have been doing and as a result the women that have been approaching them have done so because they now walk with their heads up, with a smile on their face and some self worth after getting out of their house, changing their routine and doing things with their lives, they are happy and therefore are approachable. Some of you aesthetic foreveraloners you do have women checking you out but you are so negative you dont realize it, but they dont approach you because you dont seem approachable and anyway things dont always come to us so easily, we need to be out there doing the approaching ourselves.



So many of us are young and lead empty lives, it doesn't have to be this way. If you think NO-FAP will change your life you are mistaken. If your in this situation you will find it very difficuilt to change your life from the confines of your basement walls you need to be outside, im sure you can think of a hundred reasons why you can't. Please post them in this thread so I can simply debunk them for being so meaningless.

There is no reason to be upset brahs. This is the reality of NO-FAP.

3
Ages 40 and up / Re: KidQuick's Journal (46 year old married male)
« on: April 09, 2015, 07:52:03 PM »


Day 101

First of all I would like to say I am still porn free. I take great pride in saying that, so don't be surprised if I say it again one day.

Second of all, I learned something today.

It started with last night, I had sex with my wife. I didn't get an erection, but I don't really see there being any reason why I still shouldn't say I had sex with her. It was wonderful and passionate and everything that sex should be. I didn't get aroused but it was truly pleasurable for me anyway.

This morning I started thinking of things again. It started with memories of porn, but those I was able to chase away pretty quickly. That said, they were running through my mind in a sort of rapid fire speed, and thinking back on it, it was almost like I was chasing down those perfect porn images on the computer, but only in my head. I had started to get aroused but, as I said, I chased those thoughts away. Then I started thinking about this friend of ours. And I started masturbating. I was coming close to ejaculation, edging basically, and I remembered reading how bad edging was for this process. And within probably less that a minute of me debating if it was worse to edge like that without porn or to actually come to orgasm and ejaculate, my penis had made the decision for me and ejaculated. I didn't feel bad about it. I still don't. But as I drove into work I kept wondering if it was worse to edge or ejaculate.

Low and behold I found this article on YBOP - http://yourbrainonporn.com/what-if-i-use-porn-without-orgasm

Short answer, it is worse to edge. For anyone who may not know, as you are rising to the occasion, your dopamine levels kick in and you get a reward rush. In fact, your dopamine levels are at their highest peak just before you orgasm. When you ejaculate, your prolactin levels rise and that takes down the dopamine levels. If you don't ejaculate, your dopamine levels stay higher longer. And if you edge, you basically leave those dopamine levels at their peak for hours with nothing to bring them down.

Then I saw this quote in the article from someone who had gone without porn or fap for 30 days. "The second month in I started looking at bikini pics and softcore playboy like pictures. This still seemed ok but I started noticing that I didn't want to go out of the house as much, and social anxiety started to increase again, just from bikini pics,"

And it hit me, that's what happened to me. I was starting to watch tv shows and movies with somewhat sexual scenes. Then I was getting drawn to them. I was also drawn to looking up pictures, no naked, of celebrities I had once masturbated to. I was edging in the mornings to thoughts of real women. And I was withdrawing socially. I had thought it was okay to watch those shows and look for those pictures because I wasn't getting aroused by them. I thought it was okay to edge, because I didn't think it was edging. I thought I was pulling myself back, only I got to the point where I could do that right before I ejaculated. Not to mention, I wasn't thinking of porn I had watched. I was thinking of real women.

Boy was I wrong about all of that. And how!

I am going to stop all of it. Period. I can't deal with fuzziness in the rules. My brain doesn't work like that, and my addictive brain is even trickier. It will find all sorts of ways to rationalize doing what I know I should not be doing. And it is not enough to simply not look at porn. Not for me anyway.

With the above in mind, I am setting up a new counter, no edging. When starting things like this, for me anyway, it is very helpful to have a counter.

This isn't a bad thing. These are lessons. Everyone has a different process for overcoming this addiction. And since there are no hard and fast rules that apply to everyone, there's bound to be lessons and corrections along the way.
 

4
Ages 40 and up / Re: What I am doing is not sustainable
« on: April 08, 2015, 06:09:33 PM »


oyiryu,

You are in the right place. When you are struggling or at a loss for what to do, read Jimmie James's post. It had a lot of good wisdom in it.

I would add to it two other things though:

1) Journal. Particularly, in the beginning. Get those feelings out, whatever they are. The beautiful thing about RN is you can say whatever you want, however insane or stupid or ridiculous you may think is. We have all been there. I see some of my past in yours. You are not alone.

2) Learn. Learn as much as you can about the process and what you are going through. I know it is cliche but knowledge is power. Once you have a better understanding of the process, you will be able to fight the urges better. Until you have that knowledge, you are simply trying to suffer through. You can read posts here. You can go to YBOP.com. There's even a few places on reddit you can go to to. There are probably other places too. Yeah, I know Jimmie James said this, but I wanted to repeat it because it is so important.

Finally, and this isn't an addition, I just wanted to note that the brain is a wonderful beautiful elastic thing. It takes time and it is a battle, but the brain can recover and return to it's pre-addiction state. I believe in you, oyiryu. We all do.

5
Ages 40 and up / Re: Morning erections? Please read
« on: April 08, 2015, 05:57:05 PM »


I think the morning wood isn't necessarily the first sign of a recovering reboot. I think it is more a confidence booster than anything else. Particularly after a flatline, waking up with a nice erection is one heck of a Hot Damn, I am a Man! kind of feeling. Not everyone gets them. Not everyone needs them to complete their recovery. If you get one, enjoy it, but don't put pressure on yourself if you don't get another the next morning or even the next few mornings.

As far as whether or not we should be expecting ourselves to have the same erections and stamina in our forties (I'm 46) as we did we were younger. I would think we would not. Our bodies have changed as we have gotten older. Our metabolism is different. We are less strong, no matter how much we work out. We have less endurance. And we need more sleep. (Or at least, those are all true of me.) I think to have the expectations that we should be the same as a 20 year old in bed is a product of the media and the impressions of porn. There are no cameras in the bedroom. We are not performing. Feeling like we are or comparing ourselves to anyone else, even our younger selves, does nothing more than put pressure on ourselves. And that, my friend, is the last thing we should be doing. We should simply enjoy being with someone else intimately, with or without erections.

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Ages 40 and up / Re: KidQuick's Journal (46 year old married male)
« on: April 08, 2015, 05:48:36 PM »


Day 100. It's official. I'm a century old in reboot days.

I'm still in a flatline, but it doesn't seem as potent now. Or maybe I am finally at a peace about the process. I've started getting some morning woodness. I'm feeling more confident about things.

Admittedly, I took a Cialis last Saturday, but this morning, I had some slight woodness and I was able to build it to quite a nice solid erection with very little contact. No fantasy whatsoever. In fact, as soon as my mind starting going in that direction, I just stopped. I don't think Cialis lasts five days. It never had for me before. Either way, the erection was nice and so incredibly welcome after such a long flatline.

My wife was sick last weekend and much of this week, so I haven't really tried any romance with her. 

I'm working on my confidence issues, and I feel like I am starting to make progress. I realize though that it's important though to keep that momentum going. I have been connecting with friends more. That is helping. I also talked to a couple people at a market to see if they would be interested in purchasing some things from my wife's stock. My wife as a small EBay store, and we recently purchased a wholesale pallet with a lot of clothes, which we don't really sell. I'm looking at other ways to sell them other than giving them to Goodwill or someplace like that (which was my wife's idea). Speaking to the strangers was pretty big for me. It made me feel pretty good. Particularly when my wife even commented about it.

That's about it. I'm definitely feeling at peace with things right now, and that is an incredible feeling in and of itself. 

7
Ages 40 and up / Re: KidQuick's Journal (46 year old married male)
« on: April 02, 2015, 08:52:43 PM »


Day 94

I am starting to wonder if my addiction to porn is not my real problem, but more rather a symptom of it. When I started this, I had thought, I had hoped, that it was my only problem related to my ED issues, but now, I am wondering if that is not the case. I am starting to think it may be symptomatic of my extreme lack of confidence, not just sexual confidence, but general confidence. That has been something I have been battling all my life.

This is coming from the feeling that I have made huge progress in overcoming my porn addiction, yet I am still having issues, but those issues are more related to fear and anxiety than wanting something else (porn).

I have a feeling that my confidence issues are probably related to something that happened in my childhood, most of which I have forgotten (which sucks when dealing with issues stemming from it.) I won't go into detail, but my parents did not have a happy marriage, and my father was a cruel man, not physically cruel, but mentally so. He was and still is a very sick man.

I remember when I was younger I always wanted to be one of the good guys. I used to call it "wearing the white hat," and I wanted to "wear the white hat." Look back now, that just seems strange to me. Shouldn't young boys want to be bad, test limits, and not be afraid to get into trouble every once in a while? Why was I so afraid to do something bad? I was like that in all of the few memories I have of my childhood (most of which are in my teen years), I basically always wanted to be perfect, and after 46 years, I need to finally recognize that is simply not possible, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. It is okay to make a mistake every once in a while.   

That lack of confidence stems into the bedroom. I still have all this anxiety when it comes to my performance. I feel like I have invested all this time, all this effort and my wife is hoping for so little (just a reasonable sex life with her husband), and I am scared that if I try to be physical with her and fail, that I am a failure. And that is not fair. It’s not fair to her. It's not fair to me. Looking back at the time when I masturbated recently, it was out of fear, such an extreme fear, and looking back, it was really ridiculous. That said, it's okay. It's not end of the world. It doesn’t mean I can't wear the white hat or any other color I might think looks good on me.

I realize that, as Lyon noted elsewhere, my bedroom is not a porn movie. And the less I focus on my performance, the better it will be. I realize that. But what if my confidence comes from something deeper and has a more broader effect than just ED? That is what I am starting to think is going on with me. And to tackle my confidence in the bedroom, I need to tackle my general lack of confidence too. The next question is what to do with that, how to do that, how to start believing in myself.

With that in mind, these are things I will to start doing:

1. Change the name of my journal from Captain Crotch Noodle. I do not have a crotch noodle, and it is completely self-defeating to say that I do. This is done.

2. Start connecting with friends. I have been withdrawing from people for a while. I need to stop. I need to reconnect. I just started texting with someone I used to work with and we will probably go to lunch together next week.

3. Find a guided meditation and work on it. Meditation seems to help me, but I notice every time I mention it, I follow up with something like "and I'm not even sure I am doing it right." It is self-defeating to think like that, like I am doing it wrong. For one, even if I am not doing it right, if it is helping, it is a good thing. For two, if it is helping, why not learn more about it, find a guided version and see if that can help more? This is done.

4. Focus more on my writing. I have trilogy I have been writing. I’m about a third into the last book, and I have started struggling since last November. I need to stop that and finish it. My writing is one of the things that gives me a lot of pleasure, but I’ve noticed that when it starts feeling too good, I get nervous and stop. I need to stop stopping and push through. It’s my writing. Why not enjoy it? Why stop when it feels like things are coming together and feeling really good?

5. Stop letting fear hold me back. There are a few things around the house I have been meaning to do, but I keep telling myself I'll mess it up. I won't do it right. I need to start doing those things and figure them out. I'm a smart guy. I can do it. And if I mess it up the first time, I can figure out what I did wrong and fix it. I've done it before. I can do it again.

6. Develop an affirmation to say to myself every day. I've heard those can help, and quite frankly, I don't see how they can hurt. This is done.

7. Start exercising more. I always feel better when I do it. I need to focus on that, instead of the struggle to just get started.

8. In realizing that confidence is the problem, I'm going to take a Cialis and make love to my wife. There are many different way to do a reboot, and there is no magical one method that works for everyone. And to be honest, just being able to make love to my wife, to feel that, I think will do wonders for me. My plan is not to become dependent on Cialis, but just to use it every once in a while, if I need  it, to get over this stupid crushing anxiety. It is not to overcome the addiction to porn. It is to overcome my anxiety.

8
Ages 40 and up / Re: Starting
« on: March 31, 2015, 02:34:36 AM »


Nicely handled. Not much to say beyond that.

9


90 Days. My bar is full!

Not much as happened. I spent yesterday enjoying my family. Went to a soccer game with the grandkids and spent the night at their house. Today was quiet too. I just came home, helped my wife with some things she needed for her business. I planned on going for another walk in the park, but it just didn't happen today. Maybe tomorrow. I am becoming more at peace with things and this process.

I guess I have to thank lapdog for that. I think his just the pointing out that I was focusing the negatives made me realize that I was. That probably wasn't the intent of his post, but those words stuck with me. They stuck with me, because they were true. I had been rationalizing my posts as doing something else (documenting simply what was happening), but the reality was that I was focusing more on those negative things, my not being who I wanted to be.  Life is not sex. Sex is only a component of life. My marriage is not sex. Sex is only a component of my marriage. By focusing so much on the process of this recovery, I was missing all the other aspects in life that this process was opening up for me. And there is so much more to life and my marriage than "insert tab A into slot B."

I think focusing so much on the recovery was probably an attempt to find signs of some sort of progress, instead of letting progress simply happen. That seems to be a constant theme for me. In bed with my wife, I look for signs of an erection instead of simply letting it happen. Here, I look for signs of progress instead of letting it happen. That may be related to my insecurities and my fears of failure and the pressure I put on myself to be perfect. Actually, there is no "may" about that. It is most definitely related to those feelings.

Hmmm, I think that was an epiphany. What better way to mark today, a landmark day for hitting my 90 day goal.

10


Day 88. I hadn't really been focused on the days recently, but I just realized my bar is almost full. Only a couple more days to go. And then the rest of my life.

I'm really thinking more and more that meditation is helping. I doubt I am doing anything hardcore, but just taking thirty minutes to focus on a tiny spot on the wall and clear my mind of everything really seems to make the urges go away and the process so much more bearable. Maybe it's a coincidence with something else that has happened, maybe not. But I'm an running with it. I am now trying to learn the Breath of Fire. You wouldn't think breathing would be that hard, but I'm still training myself to develop the proper rhythm.

I'm also trying to exercise more. After that walk with my wife a few days ago and how I felt afterwards, I realized that even low impact type activity can be quite refreshing. I don't have to kill myself at a gym, though it would be nice to get the point where I have the endurance to do that. But for now, one walk at a time. I couldn't walk in the park today though. By the time I got home, it had turned too cold. I have one of those stair stepper things so I just walked on that in front of the tv. I can't say it was as refreshing, but it did feel good to do something.

11
Ages 40 and up / Re: Journey to Neverfap
« on: March 27, 2015, 09:00:57 PM »


You'll have to let us know if the book is helpful.

Fantasies were a hard one for me, though I don't seem to be dealing with them much anymore. It was really strange, I had no problem pushing those fantasies about things I had seen on the web back in my porn days. After a time, that became almost a reflex, but some real women would send my thoughts a roaming. It's not happening now, but I wouldn't be surprised if I have to deal with that again. This process seems very cyclical, at least for me. One urge goes away, only to come back latter. I guess what I am saying is that I feel where you are coming from, and it's good you are seeking new ways to retrain your thoughts.

12


Keep it up. (Pun intended.) I hope it stays relatively easy, but even if those hummings become stronger, you can handle it.

I was very impressed how you handled the grindr guy. Very very impressed. And it's just another reminder that we are not alone. There are so many others dealing with this issue even beyond those that have been lucky enough to find this site. 

13


Day 86.

I had a slight chub this morning. Progress!

I am finding more and more through this that meditation is really helping. Even though I am not really sure I am doing it right, I've noticed that I am less focused on what I am going through and noticing less the little things that might happen. It's only been maybe about a week. I try to meditate for 30 minutes a day. Sometimes I make it to 30, sometimes I don't. I try not to stress about the length, because I figure it's not really all that relaxing if I am stressing about some component of it.

Thanks for the kind words, everyone.

ianmac, I am still struggling with my demands on myself. Perfection is a ridiculous goal to have. I don't think I realized it until I started this recovery how much putting that kind of pressure on me was actually hurting me, but I am now. I am a work in progress though and allowing myself to be human is one of the things I am progressing towards.

lapdog, Your advice comes at an interesting time for me. I've been wondering about taking Cialis to help me out of my anxiety. The last time I masturbated was clearly nothing but anxiety. It's one thing to deal with an addiction to porn, but anxiety is another thing altogether, though admittedly, the two may work together a lot of times. I've been having this debate with myself since about Day 60 or 70. I had hoped that I would be more back to normal (for lack of a better word) by then, but that did not happen. I think that affected me a lot more than I realized (see perfection comment above). I realize there are arguments for and against using those kinds of drugs when recovering, but each of my debates seem to end up with waiting a little longer to see. I think that mainly comes from the idea that they would help if I was losing my erection, but right now, I'm not really getting any erections to lose. So I wait a little longer.

You also noted that I have been focusing on the negative aspects of the recovery process. If that is the way I am coming off, I truly do apologize. My thought was just to document things and with as much honesty as I could. I guess in retrospect that may sound like I am focusing on the negative aspects, simply because I am in a flatline phase. I assure you I am very positive about my recovery. I have ups and downs and doubts from time to time, but I have not given up and I will not give up. I believe in the process. I believe in myself and I believe in my recovery. If that is not coming through in my posts, I need to work on that. I certainly don't want anyone reading my entries to think the journey is all doom and gloom. Parts maybe, but not all it.

Lyon03, good words as always. You are an inspiration I am sure for more than just me. You have seen so many sides of this problem, from being married and being gay to missteps and mistakes. And you made it through. I am honored you have spent time reading my journey. More importantly, PORN IS NOT AN OPTION.

14
Day 84.

I woke up in the middle of the night. I do that sometimes. Not really feeling any urges. Just thought I would post an update.

I had sex with my wife again the day before yesterday, no intercourse, just me pleasuring her. It was nice. There is a lot of enjoyment there for me. I used to think that was strange. How can I get so much pleasure pleasuring her and yet not have any physical reaction down below? Now, I just enjoy it and appreciate it.

We were talking afterwards and she asked me when the last time I masturbated was. I told her. I don't want to lie to her. She was crushed. I knew where she was coming from. She doesn't really understand what I am doing. She hasn't researched it. She is just recognizing that this is something that I think will work. And I told her I was stopping everything, porn, fantasies masturbation, everything. So with that in mind, my masturbating a little over a week ago sounds like a failure. All my feelings and worries and fears came crashing down on me in that one little expression of hers. I tried to explain to her that there were different types of reboots. There were soft reboots and hard reboots and that what I did probably didn't have much of an effect. I don't know that for sure, but all I can do is keep moving forward. I haven't looked at porn in 84 days now, and that is the key here. I am not getting any satisfaction from porn. I have no desire to really look at porn. And now I just have to wait until my body catches up with my mind.

Last night, I had one of the most sexual dreams I can remember in a while. I woke up with the images still crystal clear in my mind. Nothing down below though. So I am still working through this.

I am realizing more and more how much pressure I am putting on myself to get through this. And as I realize that, I am realizing that I have to let go. The pressure is not helping. It is not helping at all. I have to realize that the main idea is to keep working towards the goal, to keep taking those steps. Sometimes, I stumble. And from what I have read here and some of the responses to my entries, I may not have stumbled. I just don't know right now. And either way, it doesn't change the the goal. It doesn't defeat my desire for that goal. It doesn't change the pure and simple fact that I will change. I will change.

I am going to end this on a good note. I took a four mile walk with my wife in the park today. Damn, that felt good. Nature, exercise. I should definitely start doing that more.

That's about it.

15
Ages 40 and up / Re: Journey to Neverfap
« on: March 24, 2015, 03:26:10 AM »


ianmac

I woke up in the middle of the night tonight and came on this site looking for a bit of inspiration and found it in your journey in spades. Thank you so much for sharing. I can relate so much to your relationship with your wife and the struggles there. You're journey has given one man hope for a day. I can give you no better praise than that. And I can only hope I progress to the point you have. No, I don't hope. I will. I will and can't wait until I do. That sounds so much better, doesn't it?

One thing discussed in here really struck me. It was something I think I knew, but a few words just crystallized the pressure I put on myself, have put on myself for so long.

"perfection is the enemy of the good".

I felt that pressure on me growing up, so much that it was affecting me physically. (Both my parents were Methodist ministers.) I was developing this weird fungus on my feet that was creating bleeding puss-filled boils. I fought those things for years. I still remember was the Doctor told my parents, and I didn't really understand as much then as I do now. He told them I was a Cadillac in a Volkswagen body. I guess that can be interpreted different ways, but basically I think he meant there was so much inside of me that I was unwilling to let go. I was putting so much pressure on myself and that I could not truly be myself and I was hurting myself in the process. I was trying to be perfect. I have always tried to be perfect and I have so much trouble forgiving my mistakes.

Anyway, I didn't want to make this about me. This is your journal. It should be about you. And I just wanted to say thanks for sharing the journey.

16


Day 79

Thanks everyone for the thoughts.

It's been a few days. I'm just trying to process things I guess. I masturbated again a couple days ago. That makes twice. I actually got hard this time. I didn't really feel bad about it though. I don't really know what I felt about it, to be honest.

I've been wondering if I am putting so much pressure on myself not to masturbate, that it might be having a negative effect. I"m fighting a natural urge that is programmed into our biology. Can that really be good? It's been a real fight up until a couple days ago.

I guess part of my concern is that my main problem is that I can't get out of my head. When I masturbate, I think about things, I fantasize. I didn't even realize that I should be able to masturbate without fantasy until I read this site. I don't think I have ever done that, even when I was younger. There was always a fantasy component. Now, when I am having sex, I fantasize. I'm in my head, and I need to get out of it. I was hoping that by sort of starving myself sexually, my body would resort to it's more natural ways in order to find release. This far into the reboot, and I'm not so sure.

It's really doing nothing for my confidence. It's doing nothing to make me feel like a sexual being. All it seems to be doing is making this process harder. I just want to get through this, and I thought holding back from masturbation would speed up the process. I just don't know right now. I just thought I would be seeing signs of something by now.

For so long, there was this strange thing going on inside me. My mind was craving release. Not really porn, but just release. Thoughts would splash in from time to time or just the mental urge for release. I thought about it almost constantly, particularly when I had nothing else to occupy my mind, like work. But down below, nothing. Absolutely nothing. So my head wanted to have sex, demanded to have sex, but down below nothing. That just seemed so odd to me. It also seemed troubling that since I don't really have the urge to look a porn anymore, shouldn't I be seeing other changes? Isn't that the battle here? Once I've overcome the desire to look at porn, shouldn't I start seeing physical changes? Well, I don't really have the desire to look at porn. I haven't in a while. Occasionally, some memory of one might start to climb in my thoughts, but I push it out. And I push it out without even thinking, if that makes sense. It's like a reflex almost. So where's the other stuff? Where are the natural erections? It's a fair question. It's also one without an answer.

By the way, I doubt anything will really happen with that friend. The thoughts always just spur the desire. The pictures she sends always helps. It's one of my triggers, though I'm not sure it's a bad one. A natural one, but not a bad one. I think the troubling part for me when I masturbated was just that the possibility of a fantasy coming true (however unlikely) scared me so much. It was a stupid fear. I knew that. I knew that nothing would probably happen. I just didn't like being afraid like that, over something like that, for something like that. The troubling part for me wasn't that I masturbated, but why I did it.

Now, for the past couple days, I am feeling like a eunuch almost, at least when I think about it. I haven't felt any urge to do anything, physically or mentally. I woke up this evening or morning. It's 2:30 am. My phone rang and woke me up. It was a number I didn't recognize. And I was laying there, realizing that now, I don't even have the mental urge for release. Nothing. And it's making me nervous. It worries me because I'm not sure what it means. Does it mean I have somehow moved back in the process? Does it mean, at this stage, that something else is wrong with me? Does it mean something bad that I don't even know about. Or does it mean it is a good thing? Maybe it is yet another stage in the process. Maybe it means I am progressing.

I'm guessing my sudden lack of mental desire is due to my starting to meditate. It's just another attempt to move things forward. I read about it here on the internet http://www.triroc.com/sunnen/topics/erectiledysfun.htm. It's a study where meditation helped some men with ED issues. Granted, it looks like none of them have been dealing with this as long as I, or most of us, have, but I figured it was worth a shot. I remembered when I tried acupuncture a while ago to deal with the issue, and although that didn't help, one nice thing about it was just laying alone in a dark room with soft music and getting away from everything for an hour. Mentally, it was refreshing. I thought meditation might be something like that. It's not. It's not easy. I'm not even sure if I am doing it right. But from what I gather, that is common when people first start. But I also figure it can't hurt.

I'm still in the fight. I'm just tired of fighting right now. I'm sure that's natural.

On to day 80

17


Day 73.

I messed up, or maybe not. I just don't really know. It's hard to tell sometimes. There don't seem to be any hard and fast rules, except no porn. I didn't look at any porn.

I masturbated and ejaculated though. It was stupid. I'm trying to do a hard reboot, because I've never really been sure about mental porn. I haven't looked at any porn and any thoughts about the porn that I have seen I just push out of my head. But if I am thinking about a real person in what might be a porn situation, doesn't that fall under porn? I mean, does your mind know the difference? I've been trying to play it safe with the hard reboot. Today, it didn't work.

What's really stupid is that I didn't masturbate because I was excited about anything. I did it because I was afraid, and it was the quickest I have cum in a while, and it was with an extremely limp penis.  I didn't even know it was possible to ejaculate with a limp penis.

So what happened? To avoid trigger issues, I'll try to keep this brief as possible, my wife has a female friend that she was physical with once a while ago. Yesterday, the friend started sending my wife sexy pictures and texting flirty things about getting with her this weekend. It was out of the blue, and my wife showed me the pics and the texts. So I woke this morning, of course, thinking about them. And then I got scared. I started wondering about if they would want me to get involved. I know my wife would. We have talked about it. Not sure about the female friend. She's married and has this weird thing where it is okay to be with women, but not other men. So I got scared though because I was afraid I wouldn't be able to get erect. It's one thing to reveal this kind of thing to my wife, but to a family friend is another story. I wouldn't be surprised if she already knows, but still to be with her and my wife and not get aroused. I just found it terrifying. I debated about taking a Cialis that day to help. And then I thought what if it went the other way. What if I came to soon? And that was terrifying too. And all this was happening while I was playing with myself to no avail. And for a very brief moment, I thought maybe I should just masturbate. That way I could reassure myself I could get erect and maybe finally orgasming might help keep things under control. It was a stupid argument. It was a stupid rationalization and just plan stupid. And it lasted just long enough for me ejaculate with a limp penis. About five minutes, if that.

And that is what happened.

I'm not sure what it means. I just know I'll keep going and pray that it doesn't set me back.



18

68 days.

Thanks, everyone. Ianmac, in particular. Although, I wouldn't wish this on anyone, it is somewhat reassuring to know someone has tread this ground before and is recovering as slowly as I am. It is also helping me realize that I am not doing anything wrong. Some of us just have to fight longer than others.

I just had to swim through my puddle of muddlement. I haven't given up. I'm too invested now to stop (lack of options help too.) It just gets to me sometimes. Sometimes I feel like that saying, if you keep doing the same thing expecting different results... I know that's not what is going on, it's just that when it takes so long, it sometimes feels that way. We all have our ups and downs. I am no different.

Anyway, not much has changed.

I did find myself on two mornings recently thinking of an old porn video, one of my favorites. I couldn't really remember any of the visual details, but the situation was enough to get a little arousal of out me. It wasn't much, not a full erection by any stretch. Though at one point, I think I might have started to start to cum. That said, it didn't really feel like edging. There wasn't much pleasure in it. More of a panicked "Oh, crap, I better stop. I am going to screw up everything" type feeling. And then I stopped. And after two days, I realized I needed to stop that sort of thing before it even started, so I have just been getting out of bed when it does. It's amazing how effective that is.

That's about all the thrill going on my life.

My wife may be going through menopause. She's not sure, but she thinks she might be having some hot flashes. I've heard that process oftentimes has a pretty negative impact on the old sex drive. We'll see. If so, I figure she did all the heavy lifting keeping our sex life going, it's probably time I did some. I just have to get through this addiction. At least, that's what I tell myself. I would hate to think I am going through this all for nothing, if I finally get through it and she has no interest in sex so we just have sex about as much as we did when I was addicted to porn. Oh the irony that would be. But enough of those thoughts. Besides, at least it will be damn good sex, which would be better than my addiction days.

Also, if I am being truly honest with myself, this addiction has effected more than my sex drive.

Thanks again for the support. I don't think when I started this that I realized having this place to go and write out my fears to people who truly know what I am going through, how helpful it would be. But, my faceless internet friends, you are a Godsend. Not just for the last few posts, but for all the others. And for just listening, or reading rather. Thank you very very much.

On to day 69, a delightfully sexual number.

19
64 Days.

Today was a down day for me. I've had ups, days when I felt defiantly able to defeat this. Today is not one of those days. Today, I just feel like it has been a long time, a very long time, and I still feel uselessly flatlined.

I haven't given up. I still believe in the process, or more rather, I recognize I don't have other options.

But...

I was reading other people's journeys. Just about every one I read had felt something more than I had and in a much much shorter time than I am at now. I know we are all different. I know the process is different for everyone. I know there is no golden rule for how long this takes. I know all that.

Today, I just felt a nagging fear, depression, weight that I was doing something wrong. I just don't know what else I could be doing. I'm pushing pornish thoughts from my head. I don't even really have them anymore. I haven't masturbated or orgasmed. I haven't anything. And yet, here I sit with nothing. What else can I do, but wait? It's just tiresome sometimes, and this is one of those times.

I don't run from sexy images anymore. They have no effect on me, so why avoid them? What I mean by not running from them is I don't avoid cable shows that might have nudity. I've probably only watched about five or so. They are action shows or movies that have a sex scene. It's not shows that are soft porn. Those I stay away from. Porn I stay away from. I don't seek out nudity. I don't go hunting for it on the web. But if I want to watch a show or movie that may have that kind of content, I go ahead a watch it. I never stop on those moments. I never rewind to watch them over and over like I might have at one point in my life. To be honest, right now, they are little more than just another scene. They just have nudity it in them. I don't even think about them later. Maybe I should stop that. That's about all I could think to do different, though I don't really expect that to change anything.

Those who have been following me, if anyone has, does it sound like there is something I am doing wrong? Something that may be getting in the way of some real tangible progress?

The past week or so, maybe less, I've noticed I'm waking up playing with myself. I'm not thinking anything, just fiddling around. I guess I am just hoping something will happen. Nothing has. And it sucks.

This is just a down day today for me.

Maybe tomorrow will be different. I hope so. On days like this (and they don't happen often), I don't know how much more I can take. Not that it matters, because I have absolutely no interest in porn right now. There's nothing I can do even if I did reach my limit.

I just want to put this behind me.

20

62 Days!!! Two whole months!

Just checking in.

I haven't been logging as much recently. I haven't really had much time, though I'm not sure that's a good excuse. My mother had her third heart surgery in about a month (She is doing great, by the way!). My wife caught a virus. And then I caught the virus. The other reason I haven't been logging as much is that I am not stressing out about this process as much any more. I am just letting it happen and simply not focusing on any signs of progress like I had been for so long. I'm not studying each little sensation to see if maybe it meant something. I'm not worrying over how my wife was handling my abstinence and if she will be patient enough to stick around and enjoy the rewards. And most importantly, I am not beating myself up for putting myself in this situation to begin with. I am simply letting it happen and focused only on not slipping back into my porn addiction.

I'm still not feeling much down where I want to, but it doesn't really feel like a flatline. That's probably more in my head than anything else, but that's a good thing. In fact, now that I think about it, the whole flatline thing, or what I think of as "the whole flatline thing" was for the most part very much in my head. The hard part of flatlining for me was not that I didn't have any sensation or desire or erections, it was how I felt about not having those feelings. When I first started this process, I felt so much desperation to succeed. I felt like in many ways my life depended on it, who I was, my value, my worth as a husband, as a man, as a human being. That's an awful lot of pressure to put on the little guy hiding down between my legs.

Looking back now, I can't help but wonder if that hampered my recovery. It may have. It probably did. But the reality is that I had to get through that to get to here and to get to where I want to end up. And where I want to end up will happen. It will take time. It took time to develop my addiction, 30 plus years. It is almost laughable to think I could just stop for a few weeks and ta-da! I'm a teenager again. In one way, it might even be good that I am having to go through this ordeal. This ordeal will help me appreciate being able to connect with people in a way that I had stopped, help me not take it for granted and give me something to remind myself and keep myself on track.

Enough philosophizing...

About a week ago, my mind was going nuts having these rapid fire random porn thoughts, like when I first started. I'm not sure what triggered those, but I was able to simply consciously pull myself back from the abyss each and every time. It only lasted a few days, but even now, it seemed odd. I just note it in case, anyone else gets surprised like I did. It will pass.

More importantly,

I had oral sex with my wife yesterday. I was waiting until we both got well to spring my mad tongue skills on her. She really really enjoyed it, so much so she had me finger her a few hours later. She did not pressure me at all to do anything more. It was bliss.

At one point, I admit I started to feel something too, and I started down my usual path of crawling into my mind, "Is that an erection? How can I increase it? How can I keep it? Maybe I need to think about porn? That always worked." And then I would start through various porn images I had collected in my spank bank. That was how things used to happen. That was the old me. This time was different. This time, I got as far as "Is that an erection? How can I increase it?" before I realized I was crawling out of the moment and into my head again. I shut those thoughts down and got down to the real business at hand, pleasuring my wife and enjoying that pleasure I was giving her.

Lyon03, There is a lot of truth in your words about creating a porn scene. I think I knew that earlier, but I didn't really understand it until recently and how much that that mental habit was trapping me in my own head, not just in bed, probably other times as well. The mental path I outlined above shows that so clearly how it takes me out of the experience and into my head. It is something I am working on and will continue to work on.

On to Day 63!!!

21

Day 54. All Is Still Quiet Down Below.

Just checking in. Not much to report.

I don't seem interested in porn at all anymore. Attraction to real women is certainly increasing.

I'm finding myself getting more emotional, or feeling emotions more intensely. I cried at a comedy last night. Not very macho or manly, but in the interest of honesty, I'm keeping this honest.

Mornings are getting a little difficult again, but no fantasies about porn and most fantasies are incredibly tame. In fact, yesterday morning, thoughts were running through my head about a family friend. I won't go into detail due to trigger sensitivity, but it started out very very tame. No nudity even. And I was getting aroused. As soon as my thoughts started turning more graphic even borderline pornish, I lost it. I'm not sure what it means, but thought I would note it.

My wife has been sick for the past couple days, so not much has happened there. I'm just trying to take care of her right now.

I've decided to pleasure her when she feels better. It seems like at some point, instead of staying away from urges and temptations, I need to start retraining my thoughts on what they should be interested in. What better way to do that than to pleasure my wife? I'm not expecting much from my nethers to start with, but we'll see how things go down the road. If nothing else, hopefully, I'll make her feel a little goodness.

Time will tell.

I just mainly wanted to check in and let everyone know I'm still in the fight.

22


All good advice, ianmac and lyon3. All very good advice.

And you are right. I think I am harboring a huge amount of guilt that I am struggling to let go. I admit that.

I have had quite a few ups and downs recently.

Part of the recent struggles have been Valentine's Day. Me and my wife went out to eat at a nice restaurant. She drank a lot. She wasn't trashed, but when she drinks, she gets to feeling really good and really sexual. Being Valentine's Day, the subject of my recovery came up and she asked how I was doing. I told her. I hadn't looked at porn or masturbated or orgasmed for 46 days, I think, as of that night. I even showed her my habit tracker, so she could see how long it had been. She doesn't really get that it is an addiction. I think that is in large part is because lots of people look at porn and don't have problems, herself included.

She asked me what I was looking for to happen. I told her that I was waiting for morning wood as a start. I thought that was usually one of the first signs that I was coming out of this. She didn't understand that. She kept saying that I had had morning wood before, so why was I looking for the same thing as a sign that I was coming out of this? It wasn't that I didn't have an answer to that. It was more that I didn't have an answer I wanted to tell her. If I told her I was trying to allow myself to get aroused without being stuck in my mind, so I could enjoy the moment of sex with her, so I could connect with her in a way I never had, I was afraid that would lead to other questions. Like, what was I thinking about when I got aroused. She already thinks I am not attracted to her. What would she think if I told her I would get aroused thinking of other women? I just couldn't do that to her. I just couldn't.

She also mentioned that it kills her when I reject her, like this last time when I told her I didn't want to lose whatever I had gained by abstaining so far. I didn't mean that as a rejection, but how could she have seen that any other way, if doesn't see what I am doing as fighting to overcome an addiction?

It's funny and sad, I guess that she would say things that she meant to be somewhat encouraging. Things like. "This is nothing. We've gone six months without sex before." and "There's a lot more to our relationship than sex." Those hurt, but I didn't say anything. I knew where they were coming from.

She doesn't really see this as an addiction. I tried to explain it to her. I suggested the YourBrainOnPorn site. I even suggested she read the YBOP book that I had bought, just, if nothing else, to help her understand that it isn't her. I don't think she read them.

By the way, I would love to pleasure her, but she thinks I am only doing it because I feel like I have to.

I also keep telling her that some places say two months, some even say three, and I didn't know how long it would take for me. And she honors that for the most part. It's just a few times when she gets to drinking and gets to feeling sexual.

The conversation ended with me telling her that this is the first thing that has given me hope that I can get out of this. In retrospect, there wasn't really much else she could say to that.

I came to the conclusion yesterday that there are times when I need to be selfish. I need to do some things for myself. I'm guessing that it probably won't be hard for most people reading this to learn that I have a great deal of trouble doing that when it comes to my wife, or people I care about. I've always been like that, for better or for worse. But this, I feel so deep inside that I need to do this, however long it takes. I need to do this. I hate that it effects her. But this, I need to do for me.

It's day 49. I'm still flatlining. More and more I am feeling a need for release in my brain. Not to look at porn so much. The fantasies I am fighting off now are of real women. But down below, I just don't feel anything yet. 

On to Day 50. 

23

Thanks, Phase2. Many many gratitudes.

Everything you said is pretty much what I figured. It's just nice to see it confirmed. I hope I have the same experience at day 50, but if not, I'll keep going and try to get it at Day 51, and keep going until I do. I am stubbornly committed to this process. With everything I have tried, this YBOP process and RebootNation has given me hope. I'm not about to give that up.

That said, this is so true...
You are at that tough point in the reboot when you've put in serious time and are still not getting any reward, which is really difficult to endure.

I just think my wife doesn't really understand what is going on. I have a feeling that she still thinks that somehow it is me not being attracted to her. It's troubling, but I also know I will prove her wrong.

Thanks again. You have no idea how much your words meant to me.

24


Day 42. (The Answer to Life, the Universe and Everything).

Last night was hard. This morning was hard.

Still not much going on down where I so want it to. Woke up with a mild erection, so there is that.

What made last night hard was my wife had been drinking with a friend of hers and that usually gets her urges going. She offered to go down on me. I told her I would rather not. I told her I didn't want to lose what progress I had made. I was just scared. I was scared I wasn't where I needed to be. I was scared I wasn't ready. I was scared I would retreat into my own mind if things didn't work.

I wanted to go down her and tried to do that. She wasn't interested after I "rejected" her. I tried again this morning, and she told me she didn't want me to feel like I had to do that. I don't think she really understands, and I can't blame her. It just kills me that she thinks I am not attracted to her, that she thinks I don't want to have sex with her. It just fucking kills me. I know this isn't fair to her. I know this is hurting her. And that hurt hurts me.

And I wonder, okay, when do I start trying to have real sex? Don't I need to do that as part of the reconditionimg of my penis, so that it will get aroused from those sensations instead of my hand? So when do I start? Do I wait two months? For some reason, that is what I have in my head? But what if I am still flatlining at the two month mark? Do I wait for the morning wood to come around? Do I wait until I start getting random erections? Until I just look at her and pop to attention?

If anyone has any thoughts, I would sincerely appreciate it.

25


Thanks, Ready2go. I hope so. I truly truly hope so.

40 Days. The big 40. A pretty impressive accomplishment, but I'm not done yet.

Not much is still happening. I had hoped I would see some signs of improving by now, but alas, if there are signs they are too subtle.

The only thing of note is that a few mornings recently, the one today included, I wake up with an incredible urge to do something. Part of me knows what that "something" is, but it's like my mind doesn't really want to admit it so I just have this general incredible urge to do something. My cock is limp with disinterest, so I don't think I want to masturbate. I just want to look at porn. I usually just get up and take a shower and get ready, the urge goes away.

Another thing I have found myself doing is when an attractive actress will pop in my head at work, I will wonder what "she looks like now." I'll do a Google search for her and not pull up any porn sites. I'll go to Google images. At the time, I am thinking it is okay. I'm doing it at work and we have filters for blocking anything bad. None of those kinds of pictures would come up. And I'm not even interested in getting off. I just have this desire to "see what they look like."

I have a feeling that isn't good. So I am going to make an effort to stop myself next time. If the feeling isn't enough, one of the things the YBOP book mentioned was that your brain doesn't know what porn is. It only knows the effects of it, the bursts of dopamine. If even looking at "what those actresses look like now" triggers anything like that, I need to stop.

Another odd thing is that that never seems to happen at home when Google images would pull up everything, good and bad.

Then again, I don't know how extreme I need to go with this. Maybe I am going to far. Maybe there isn't a too far. There is only what works and unfortunately with this, you can't know what works until months later when it does.

I guess I am just wishing there were more progress today. That's probably all this is.

I just finished reading Gary Wilson and Anthony Jack's Your Brain on Porn book. It was very educational about what is happening. Like most people, here, I strongly recommend it. I had to admit, it would have been nice if there were some example timelines, but they probably left that out intentionally. It even noted not to compare yourself to others. Everyone is different, so the process will be different for everyone. Still the progress demanding part of me wanted to see at least something like generally-speaking most men age 40 and above start seeing this after this much time and this after this much time and so on. The progress demanding part of me is not getting very much attention through this, but it will survive. The stubborn part of me is stronger and refusing to give in. The biggest part of that is that I have tried so many other things to conquer this, and abstinence is the only thing I have left to try.

On to Day 41...

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