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Messages - skrodriguez

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Ages 20-29 / Re: Reclaiming a part of myself
« on: August 30, 2014, 04:50:04 PM »
judging from the intensity of your words in this post you seem a little unsure whether it still is going the way you wanted it to, am I right?
Hahahahaaaaa. Love it. Good on you Vince. Yes, that would be a part of it. On the one hand I know the process progresses, on the other I sometimes have doubts when perhaps things don't go as I had planned.

If you MO pattern is linked to fantasy or triggered by fantasy I understand a pornographic-related content as a variable.
Well my abstinence from written erotica isn't as long as from other forms and my imagination can still go there in a big way. I completely hear what you say about not being able to eliminate sexual thoughts completely and I honestly don't want to do that in the longer term, I just remain very interested and at times stumped by what triggers the desire for arousal in the brain and the patterns of behaviour. I haven´t managed to figure it out, or feel a correlation between certain things I do leading to this.

No no no, I still have my moments when I imagine things I would like to do....(which preposition?)....with?....for? girlfriend  ::) and I still do have erotic imaginings embodying ficitonal characters often demonstrating the thing I may find most alluring at that moment. The red X method hasn't really worked for me. I could apply it to fantasty lady X for sure but I usually find it only works for the clarity of video material, people with faces and features clearly defined, which my imaginary characters never have. I haven´t watched video porn now for quite a while that I don´t need to block that from my mind and the redX doesn´t work for written, fantasy based stuff really. Distraction is best. And MINDFULNESS.

And If breaking the streak with your GF was a mistake, I really would like to know what you planned as a next step after a 90-day-reboot.
Thanks Vince. I mean I completely intended to smash it to bits with her after the period. It was/is for my own sense of purpose and belief in myself that I would say stick to a time (but don't have a counter) as prearranged and break the streak under your own terms, content to have succeeded and ready to pursue the next step. I guess my idea was something like that. No, times spent with my girlfriend, even if virtual, are not the problem, it's just that they can make me want that as a roundabout to the reboot which isn't helpful. It's more just in this sense.

After the broken streak you went 6 days to another 6 days with only MO which I would not exactly categorize as a chaser, which usually lead me to 3-4 time MO after having sex the same day.
Again, you are right about the chaser being more what you describe. I just feel messed around physiologically and emotionally after MO....for about a week. To be honest, 12 days is timeframe for me, or thereabouts. During that time it's topsy-turvy and after that for like the following month it's better. Hahaha. Or it was last time.

The fact that it is hard tells me that stuff is happening, which while not pleasant, is encouraging and other than that I just try to focus on other things in my life.

Ages 20-29 / Re: Saving my relationship
« on: August 30, 2014, 06:38:29 AM »
And I am pretty confident with talking to both, men and women alike also in public places and without necessarily having to know them at all.

This is cool! I became club secretary for an exchange club at the university and loved the contact with people. Heaps of new exchange students looking for friends having recently arrived and I get to help organising events and meeting so many people. A whole variety and some seriously good looking girls - yes, some of those events were parties! Anyway....back to you >> Vincent - I like hearing this observation.

All of you are a big part of the reason I am starting to recover!!!!!

Yeah, I think the recovery best takes place when we are engaged in other things and just letting all that other stuff rest. They are the easiest days and the most effective I would say. The longer your streak, and the longer you really stick to removing stimulation, the easier it does become is my experience.


Ages 20-29 / Re: Prom's Journal
« on: August 30, 2014, 01:41:10 AM »
One thing I can't relate to is a flat line.  Lots of people speak about them, but I've NEVER had one.  Not in my life, not when I hit 24 days or so, never.

Maybe. Like I am not going to try and say yes or no to your experience of course but then again most of us have never really allowed ourselves to flatline....ever. We have been blasting our brains with naked bodies, conditioned behavious and habits and used that as a balm for 'lifes sort of difficult at the moment' catch all feel good tool.

I have found it very difficult after MO to continue - processes are reawakened and it is strong. This made me see the degree to which things had backed off even if I still felt the urges at the time and they 'seemed consistently strong'.

I haven't yet had a flatline where I lost all desire for a number of weeks. Not that variety.

Ages 20-29 / Re: Prom's Journal
« on: August 29, 2014, 06:09:40 AM »
Hey Promise,

That plodding along feeling is something I can relate to, and then the feeling of horniness arriving in certain moments. I would say that they do get less and less strong with time though, or it all just becomes less of an issue/presense. I would say this is a symbiosis of mental/physical and is part of a natural flat line that is the basis of a reboot. That one begins to accept the change, deny the impulse, live through the uncomfortableness as the mind throughs various tantrums and tricks and then these things start to recede and become less conscious. I think in this moment we do most of our constructive rewiring. Not when you're indulging, not when you're fighting it hard, but when you forget about it for a while and then simply manage it when it does crop up.

This is my hindsight view - whadya dhink? Canya relate?

Ages 20-29 / Re: Reclaiming a part of myself
« on: August 29, 2014, 05:53:44 AM »
Realising I've gone like two weeks without posting makes me feel like one of those people who, you know, fucks off when it turns pear shaped.

I'm gearing up to go overseas and tying off many ends and working a lot I genuinely have been really busy. But there is something to journaling that slows the business and this haste has made me lose my concentration which I do regret.

I've had a tough couple of weeks, I'll be honest. I'vo MO'd and feel I lost (though not completely) the thread of my reboot. I've still been journaling for therapy - though not as regularly as I'd like. Anyway, let's stay on topic.

Breaking my streak with my girlfriend was a mistake. It throws out a rhythm and a certain sexual calm that does develop, if so infintesimely slowly so as to not be visible at the time. After this initial session I went about 6 days then MO'd, another six days and the same.

So I took stock and reviewed my early journal entries, those from before I was a member here. I have a mixture of stress from a very finite and impending departure date and the myriad things to get done beforehand mixed with a definite excitement and anticipation and some trepidation in regards to all this - things I'd been able to distance beforehand to give myself a non-stimulating headspace.

And then there is the fanstasy/mental stimulation. Increased horniness leads to increased instances of fantasy to be controlled. During my initial streak the regularity of routine and a real reduction in exposure to stimulating material did (as I mentioned above) over time reduce the horniness and frequency of sexual thoughts. This is by far the most effective way to do a reboot. Indeed, the only way to reboot the brain I believe. This 'calm vigil' was disturbed and compromised. The chaser effect is strong and the biological effect on the body was noticable to me. Though I don't think that's the root problem, that, I think, is still one's perception of oneself. I felt disheartened when my subsequent masturbation happened without my girlfriend, and that they happened at all. The refocussing is hard. That quiet moment to just take time-out with myself, read my early journal entries to familiarise myself with goals and approach - which were very effective - and to simply agree to continue, and to continue looking at root emotions and to see what I can learn from my experience (noticing an initial biological effect followed by a mental pattern) etc.

I'm sorry for not updating. I wanted to and then would forget, perhaps confirming my own theory above about the busyness and losing the thread and quiet vigil which was to date my best method which focuses on:

  • Slow down mental processes
  • Look for emotional root to behavious and physical sensations
  • Reduce exposure to stimulation
  • Don't allow fantasy to really get going
  • Change certain things in my physical environment
  • Exercise

So there it is people. A long streak is no guarantee of success but it does help, or it should, in the case of reflection. For me the hardest thing is not the physical urge. I've been through withdrawal for that already I feel. I can deny those urges. But the urge to 'occupy' my brain and not let it slip into fantasy is harder I would say - because that can play with emotional wellbeing is my experience. This is the urge > behaviour pattern which I think results from an emotion, or they all feed each other and through trial and error and some hard reflection and journaling (sitll in progress), I could say:

  • physical - background presense but with powerful urges, or response to mental urges - obvious and easier to abstain
  • mental - probably the root of the urge, transient and fleeting but very powerful - requires prior trigger awareness and planning, willpower
  • emotional - very nebulous and possibly mixed, hidden, more constant but effects judgement thus the prior planning approach above doesn't work. Emotions need to be recognised and allowed to be. Admit. Mindfullness. Slow down (don't run with) thoughts. Look to biological patterns as mentioned above the orgasm cycle can effect emotions in following minutes/hours/days in different ways. But fundamentally an emotion that is present is and has been for some time to be effecting behaviour and is invariably a response to other factors in your life.

I think. This is a work in progress.

Ages 20-29 / Re: Reclaiming a part of myself
« on: August 12, 2014, 06:01:55 AM »
So I reset my counter.

What happened? Had a session with my girlfriend which included masturbation and orgasm.

Not any special sort of day. Had plenty of sleep, no particularly strong urges, just going along as usual. Some days prior I had had some very small emissions but no morning wood (or not notable) and no wet dreams.

I have to be honest that I knew what I was doing - like I chose to do it. I felt in control and actually had a moment where I was considering cancelling and walking away. At no point did I feel the urges 'took over'. There was no porn, I mean apart from the fact that webcam is sort of by nature quite like porn. My conclusion from it was that it didn't excite me any more than other forms of sexual intercourse (in the communicative sense! as in communicating about sex). I will say that my curiosity comes now to see the 'chaser effect', thinking that it's going to be strong based on past experience, and now, after one day I can't say that the urges are any stronger than they usually are. Reflecting on this I can attribute it to at least one thing: that previously the sense of 'little achievement' or even failure led to further relapse on the 'what's the point?' basis. This didn't happen this time. I have no desire to fap alone - or the desire to not do that is greater than the urges would probably be more accurate.

I don't see it as a failure somehow, it doesn't actually feel like a reset, but I reset my counter because it was MO so that's that. It was a bit 'meh'. I kinda want the real thing now, although I am still somewhat anxious as to how I will perform but I just tell myself to relax and get on with other stuff. For me the important thing is how I deal from now on - the behaviours surrounding the urges etc.

I don't think more is beneficial, I think going off it would be better for me for the remaining time, to remain consistent with the origial goal and keep the promise to myself of reducing and avoiding such stimulus for a proper period of time. For me really, I want to see arousal stemming for natural pre-sex interractions; touch, smell, talk. In the past these things always made me eager for sex and the arousal certainly began, but didn't finish, leading to half-erections which led to a certain frustration (even though there was plenty to do anyway) one does expect to and look to perform there as a young man. Obviously I would like this to change and this was the driving force behind my finding YPON earlier in the year and then joining this forum. Through doing so I would say this has taken me somewhat deeper in examing myself and the life circumstances and habits that led to porn usage and dependence which are the crux of the problem and it is to those things I really want to turn my full attention. Nothing would be nicer though than seeing onseself perform well in bed, sort of as a reward for what I would say was and continues to be some truly hard effort.

I welcome any feedback and opinions!

Ages 20-29 / Re: Journal to end a Decade of Addiction
« on: August 09, 2014, 05:12:27 AM »
Promise, I really liked this last post. It was a reminder to me of how to deal with the stimulus when it comes along. Great job, great post.

Ages 20-29 / Re: Reclaiming a part of myself
« on: August 09, 2014, 05:00:41 AM »
The other day I had a strange day. I didn't have the urge to MO but rather I was like seeing so many of the girls at the uni as really sexy. It was like 'wanna be with one of 'em', it wasn't in the creepy or gross sense but rather the, 'I'm ready!', 'let's do this!' type of feeling.

....and then it was gone (perhaps because I left and then went to sleep).

Anyway, not fully sure what to make of that so I'll just leave it.

Brain still wants arousal, fuck it. Doesn't help having a girlfriend who's missing you like crazy and dreaming of 'el encuentro' (the meeting). The thing is with my girlfriend that my thoughts towards her are a mix of feelings, it certainly isn't only arousal in the sexual sense; it's excitement, anticipation, nerves (it's been a while), horniness and that kind of cuddle/closeness feeling that washes over one when they go there. One can lead to another, backwards and forwards so there are triggers for fantasy all mixed up in that.

I'm not cruising, but rarely does it feel 'out of control'. I still notice that MO was a tonic for stressful situations and untraining that behaviour seems to take a while. I think mindfulness at these moments can be quite helpful. It's the non-judgemental present awareness observation (what a mouthful) that just stops an impulse from having the power it seems to hold over you. I think we actually do this to ourselves all the time anyway (well, I speak for me) whereby we know in our head when we are doing something we shouldn't or are trying to address. We do actually know that we are in 'that instance' and it just seems to be not caring about stopping it in such a moment that leads many (myself included) to relapse.

I would be interested to hear others people's thoughts on this.

Ages 20-29 / Re: Saving my relationship
« on: August 07, 2014, 06:09:57 AM »
I know this is only natural to see a woman as a possible sexual partner. But this shows me I need to overcome it.
No. Here I'm gonna go against popular culture because I don't want you trying to do things which your biology and male sexuality in general has evolved into and given to you. Seriously I get sick of hearing the same stupid dirge over and over that men have to rise above their instincts to see women as potential mates and become something greater. Fine. But reality check! Our biology trained us in the primitive sense to value fertility in a woman which is represented by telling physical features. Men see value in a woman's body. Women see value in a man's potential to gain resources - thus hypergamy. If we are going to criticise men's natural tendencies, then we need to take a long hard look at female accessory, clothing, makeup, vanity fetish. Notice how men's sexuality in culture is generally viewed as self-ish, objectifying, dirty, voyueristic and even exploitatary whereas female sexuality is increasingly seen in the light of 'power to her', beautiful, liberating, deserved. This whole shit about the men being responsible for a woman's orgasm in sex. Faarck. Anyway, that's beside the point and needs more discussion than I'm going to give it here.

Basically don't be ashamed that the female body arouses you. That is natural. What's not natural is pornography. That endless, explicit variety that coupled with the internet gives anonymity and ease of access.

My GF and I talked about porn at the beginning of our relationship. She has no problem with me watching it and never saw it as competition.
Good on her. I like her confidence. My girlfriend is the same, but I also talked to her about it and she understood the benefit for me in not watching it and supports that. She watches it at times but veeeery rarely. I don't watch it at all. The fact that it is not a problem is what makes it not a problem for me. If she regularly used it to turn herself on, I'd take issue with that, but only to know why, hoping that a good conversation would follow. So happens she doesn't need porn to turn her on, says she's ready for it pretty much all the time and for her it's the real thing that drives her wild. That seems healthy to me.

Quite some ruminations and decisions in this last post of yours Vincent. How much of the effect porn has had on your have you talked about with your girlfriend? Can you be honest enough with her to tell her that you thought of others, that porn filled a void but that you are frustrated with everything it has caused and want to love her and find fulfillment in her? Do you want to go there?

Personally, I cherish the level of communication between myself and my girlfriend on these issues. I mean, she wants to study sexology so I do think she's more cluey than many but just talking openly about the things we like and would like stops the festering guilt and shame and hearing some of the things she likes and wants to try sort of blew my mind with regards to certain notions about female desire. Like, on its head. But you only get there by talking.

I think your level of serious is what it takes to make the kind of changes which quitting porn (where porn is a problem) entail about a person. Apparently it is on par with quitting heroin.

Ages 20-29 / Re: Saving my relationship
« on: August 06, 2014, 07:57:35 PM »
I have to change my root. I have to understand my history with porn and then I have to understand the meaning of it all.
Hey man, I feel for you. But I love that you came straight back on here and shared. How many leave it for a few days and I don't think that helps. Also you really are underswhelmed with yourself - like I think we all know the feeling. But you are letting yourself feel it which is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL in changing something. The first thing is the removal of denial - there's nobody further for fixing a problem than she/he who doesn't recognise they even have a problem. Regarding 'changing your root', a philosophical quote came to mind.
Whenever we have an emotion that repeats, it is because we are not describing its origin truthfully.

Are there some other things about your life that you think need to be examined? Have you considered therapy? These are greater measures but that level of investment in yourself may give you the incentive needed to quit this thing.
Also, I'm not clear on the situation with your girlfriend and nor is it my place to pry but does being with her not diminish your desire for porn? Are you abstaining with her to aid with the reboot? If so, perhaps adjust that? These are all just suggestions. I want you to achieve your goals and fully understand the self-esteem that comes from making a set goal but just really want you to also have an underlying goal and steps in place so that when you reach that goal, you can revert to the overall plan and keep going.

Personally Vincent, I think it takes a lot of honesty with oneself and bravery to admit feeling weak and silly. I think it's part of removing denial. How many times does one see people coming on here two hours after a binge and start spraying around words of strength and resolve when they're still glowing in a afterbath of dopamine and endorphins talking about 90 days and how it all begins here? Your's seems to be the warts and all journey of someone who does want to realise and change. I commend you.

I still struggle all the time, on the daily basis I have to redirect thoughts and I don't always succeed. I really tire of seeing my behaviour somewhat dictated by my brains desire for sexual stimulus.

Ages 20-29 / Re: Prom's Journal
« on: August 05, 2014, 07:28:49 AM »
Hi Prom!

The shower thing sounds a lot like the chaser.

I think the positive attitude is a good thing, and I like that you don't count down the days, or have a progress bar. Where's there room for a progress bar in brain rearrangement?

With the MO thing and your body telling you it's what it needs, is it the case that you get spontaneous erections or wet dreams? It's something I have been 'inadvertently looking for' and haven't really seen much. I have had some morning wood, but I really can't remember exactly when and certainly noooooo wet dreams so although it's been a while, my body obviously doesn't 'need' it. That's not to say I wouldn't myself like it at times.

For me stimulation has been present in my head, with my girlfriend. I'm not really sure I can remove that, but I can choose not to indulge the thoughts when they crop up I guess. I think this has probably affected my full rest from 'stimulation'.

PS. I think the spreadsheets are useful. They are a visual representation of frequency and in that way better than a counter in my opinion. Now I'm not sure that a spreadsheet can show fantasy-related dopamine surges to get an overview of resting sensitised brain circuitry but I think that's going overboard!!!!

Ages 20-29 / Re: OGMC - Choosing the Right Path
« on: August 05, 2014, 12:46:56 AM »
Perhaps the right path includes making some life changes to remove the underlying reason for PMO? If you use it as a stress reliever then looking at the stress-givers may also be relevant. If they cannot be changed, I get that if you are crushed as a result of a breakup then it takes time to get over it but maybe therapy could also help. In the case of your work maybe finding a different way to approach it would also help? I only suggest things but if PMO is symptomatic, I think it's great that you confront it, but just think you'll need to look bigger if you want to make the change a long term one. Disassociating it from stress relief may require some behaviour and lifestyle changes which will be hard to implement at first.

It looks like you've done it well, and I commend your ability to manage the urges, but I see a fundamental problem with the goal based 'no-PMO challenges' which while provide short to motivation that may be necessary, won't be sufficient in the long term if other life variables don't change. The desire for a relapse has to dissappear, or at least suficiently diminish so that it is no longer a problem. If it's a case of reach the goal and then relapse....what has actually be achieved in the 90 period? I hear of this happening quite often. This is why I really liked this post where I think the author summed it up nicely, if not very concisely:

I really hope you achieve what you have set out to do!

Ages 20-29 / Re: Reclaiming a part of myself
« on: August 04, 2014, 07:57:54 PM »
Wow, more than a week has passed since I posted here. Not sure I like that.

Yay! 40 days! No longer do I have a finished date but I know from personal experience that since I started masturbating back when I was....12/13 years old (I don't remember which it was) I have never managed more than 40 days! The last time I did it I think I edged on a number of occasions so this run has been the best in hardmode. But that is not to say it has been easy. Last Friday was fuuuuucking hard, I had dopamine brain fog from girlfriend fantasy. Trigger. Bad sleep. So predictable. Now it could be that I don't sleep well one night but if for some reason there are no triggers the following day, I'll be fine, the only thing is the lowered impulse control that comes with not sleeping enough.

I think we triggered each other! She MO'd and I went for a walk in the cold. It was really nice and misty. Interestingly, she even sent me a link to a page of erotica which I looked at (not knowing, this is not normal for her) and immediately closed. Then she was saying the videos (of the suggestive type I think, not very visual) where really good. I found I had no problem closing the page and not looking at anything. I told her I wasn't going to look. It didn't trigger me to want to look at more, at all. My biggest trigger is her. The next day I had zero libido. Brain felt dead (sexually). I don't care. If it wants to do that to itself it has to suck it up.

So the last week has had its easier and harder days. Back on the easier and looking forward. I have plenty of energy and good concentration but the desires for MO are still there although now I realise that no matter how strong the urge gets in certain situations, I can actually resist it. One simply doesn't touch and then changes the situation.

What I'm really noticing is how to stop fantasy thoughts from getting going. There is so little time to just absolutely deny it, to starve it and focus on something else. The impulse dies really quickly but I don't always catch it so early, sometimes I'm not even sure I want to which is where I think the actual issue lies. I am finding women very attractive but sexual tends to lead to my girlfriend which I don't have a problem with except that it gets my brain in a rut which I would rather just avoid. You see I feel now that M is just not an option, so why would I want triggers? It's counter-productive. That's the rationale, but the brain has its own things to say y no me hace caso. Faaarck.

So I'm happy with the porn situation. Written stuff is still damn hard for me - like I still find it super stimulating. But not the visuals. I don't even want to look and I never come across it in the course of my normal web behaviour so I like that my internal blocker is working. I'm not sure I'd even like it watching some of those old videos. I won't test, but I just have no desire for that. The patheticness I would feel of myself.

Recognise: brain is still very sensitive. All of the stimulus cannot be removed so it becomes an attitude shift.

Ages 20-29 / Re: A reason to live
« on: July 29, 2014, 02:00:58 AM »
Great post William. Thanks.

Ages 20-29 / Re: 23 and need to change!
« on: July 28, 2014, 03:40:34 AM »
If my mind tells me once more "only once won't hurt" then I might crack!
Ohh you will. The chaser effect suuucks on a cosmic scale. Still if you can will power the chaser effect, you'll know you're in good stead to control urges and impulses when they arise.

Just on a side note, why is the first thing one sees upon logging into their counter the option to reset? It's either a little bad faith or just tried a trusted truth of rebooting community's general need for easy access to the reset button  :-\

Ages 20-29 / Re: Mark-II's journey to No-FAPdom
« on: July 27, 2014, 05:42:45 PM »
Two weeks was my big milestone as well. It was a personal one, and it happened before I joined this forum, but beforehand it had been in the vicinity of 10 days numerous times. One was then 13 days but fiddling.

Before that I hadn't done two weeks without for over 9 years (I'm talking about masturbation), when for some reason I did 41 days, or around that number I can't remember. But even that may have still be reading some erotica and maybe even edging. So it's new territory, I get it.

Ages 20-29 / Re: A reason to live
« on: July 27, 2014, 05:38:45 PM »
Mey Movonnow!

For me day two was generally tough. At the beginning that was when I actually got shivers! Sometimes I would actually go like 3 even 4 days without MOing the past and never thought twice about it but when I sort of decided I was going to start with the reboot (this was back some months) it hit me numerous times. Days 2-3, 7-10, 18-21, 27-30. For me those were the tough periods. It's stimulus related. Less stimulus, less impulse. Forknowledge of triggers and certain situations and a plan to deal with them as well as impulse control in the moment are key. But have a plan, otherwise you'll relapse. I'm talking about a plan for when the urge hits. Science on anger impulse says that we have about 1/4 of a second to control an impulse in the moment it arises, so you have to be ready for it. Outbursts of anger are a bit quicker than the urge to MO but in certain situations the urge to look at P if it is available could follow a similar pattern.

Go for it man!

Ages 20-29 / Re: Reclaiming a part of myself
« on: July 27, 2014, 08:28:48 AM »
I like my epic posts! I do try and keep the interesting, tackling a different topic or aspect with each one.

i am on your side with that. There is no "challenge" as such. You want porn to be outside of you interest zone. I think this is eventually the goal of all the no fap. But it is indeed easier to start in with a challenge and then to realise it on your own.
I don't deny that, but I think one's reasons for beginning a reboot have to come from more than frustration, which is like a behavioural response to something which is annoying (compulsive behaviours) after it has been satiated. So PMOing and saying 'never again' and putting up all these discipline barriers to me seems insufficient recognition and incentive to actually stop those behaviours. Will power is absolutely crucial in the moment, but it needs to be guided by understanding to be effective in the long term I believe.

(People please be aware that the intention is NEVER to lecture. This is a journal and the process of writing helps me to clarify things to myself as it does to speak about my beliefs on a topic. Through writing that which was a nebulous idea, mulled and assessed is articulated and helps to solidify it into my repertoire. From there is is open to assessment and input from others which I think is the healthy outside perspective that this type of public journaling allows. It's therapeutic because all participants are naturally empathetic.)

The urges you feel for your girlfriend are actually a good sign; urges are natural, so don't feel bad about it. And don't underestimate the chemistry between two people.
You are really good at finding the pressure points in my situation  ;) I think chemistry is great. I also totally hear you about the urges relating to my girlfriend - my dilemma is that I'm not sure I actually want to tackle them, they are natural, I'm glad they're for her and not some air-brushed fictional receptor. BUT....
I feel the impulses of my brain wanting a fix, and I turn to my girlfriend as the object of obtaining that fix together with imagination. I can't act on any of that stuff right now so it really only serves to relight prior brain pathways. I see it as a problem observing the results; it starts to become intrusive and not stop. Increased fantasy leads to increased desire for fantasy and escalation in time and content (thinking) and it all just feels like the old rushes and impulses which I think are the things that need the work.

Secondary consecuences are that it may affect my interraction with her which is then a clear indicator to me that it is a bit of a problem. Spontaneous is good, is natural, it's fun and enjoyable, but when the expectation or desire and then possibly even angst or frustration if it is not met are present, then it's no longer genuine and spontaneous. Like I said, I don't think these urges can ever be fully erased, but they can be consciously de-escalated I think. Some quiet time, impulse control and focus redirecation may be in order. I don't lose by trying, I just have to try genuinely.

I'm actually looking forward to seeing what my brain throws at me so as to get a fix. What ridiculous crap will it make me feel or impulses for what? Just make sure I'm eating well, drinking my greens, sleeping enough and busy in other stuff of which there is plenty to do. I love that I have goals, incentive for change that's tangible. I think it helps me so much. I really don't want specific time-based goals for my reboot because I'm trying to rid myself of certain behavioural responses to emotional states which arise to tell me that all is not well in my life. By focusing on that life, and going head to head with the impulses, perhaps their basis can be removed and my outlook and self-belief can change enabling successful long-term behaviour change. I don't want relapse to be an option from not having addressed what remains the underlying reason for turning to porn/masturbation.

We learned a lot about dopamine and other hormones in regard to PMO. If the rewired brain should again receive all those hormones and emotions sharing them with a partner they like, how fantastic would that feel? I am eager to find that out. perhaps you can try as well.
Definitely intend to! I think it would be splendid.

To gain some insight on the dopamine, hormones and (P)MO behaviours, I spoke with my girlfriend about her response to arousals, triggers and such. As a male for me masturbation to porn was about the rush of the porn and the relief of the orgasm. I now believe much of my 'arousal' was actually just addictive brain behaviour rather than an acurate representation of libido. Thus the urge couldn't ever really be satisfied while the emotional trigger for the behaviour remained and the brain began to rewire itself to this new super stimulus and quite possibly with frequent use, I physically came to expect my hand in a certain way. This led to...essentially compulsive behaviour and ED, some of which I will say was PA. I wouldn't say I was a compulsive masturbator, like my stats would fit in the loosely defined 'healthy' range but it was unconscious, impulse stimulus response and that is why for me it is a problem. Though as a male I reach orgasm and the refractory period kicks in and 'I'm done' for now, whatever that meant. Right, so switch to girlfriend...

Yeah there are triggers, yeah she gets aroused and her immediate response, actually part of the arousal process, is based on the idea of actually having sex with a guy, or just seeing someone attractive reminding her of prior relations and thus setting off her arousal. The arousal is based on real intimacy. Now I know men and women are different but the fact that real intimacy arouses some, while the voyeuristic and hyperthetical arouses others may explain some of the disjunct when it comes time to get it on. He/she who is aroused by the thought of intimacy will be aroused for that intimacy while he/she who is aroused by porn and associated masturbation as the answer may not.

Interesting also is the response to arousal. Does one eventually masturbate to deal with the arousal or when the stimulus goes, the impulse also goes as one focuses on something else? This has to do with how someone sees masturbation as helping/satisfying them and what their patterns of behaviour are regarding masturbation.

For me it was all I had known, so much of this is my being green. For her masturbation is/was very rarely triggered by some immediate stimulus but rather something she does now and again when she feels the itch and has the time and privacy. For her it's sensorial, rarely visual. Very interesting. Also what does she get out of it? She says it doesn't really affect her desire for real intimacy  and that having an orgasm doesn't even really leave her satisfied of that desire - it can actually increase it.(this is where women are quite different from men I think, from what I've learned). She'll enjoy it of course and usually only stop, unless interrupted, when she starts to get sore or tired or, god forbit, even bored. She does it when the urges are really strong, and it helps, but it's not a regular response to something and it seems to be in response to natural impulses and stimuli. It doesn't effect her desire or performance in the bedroom, nor does it replace it (well right now it better be replacing it!!!). She tells me she thinks about it heaps so I'm not alone.

Ok, well thanks girlfriend for 'sharing that' with everyone. I share because it's valuable to me and she remains anonymous, doesn't know I'm writing here and doesn't speak English and hasn't really asked questions anyway. The info is non-specific but the insight helpful I think in differentiating healthy from more dependent habits in regards to porn/masturbation. Of course everyone is different and frequency various even more widely amongst women than men but that is actually beside the point in this case.

Ages 20-29 / Re: Saving my relationship
« on: July 27, 2014, 05:23:32 AM »
third day of the third try.
After deleting all my possibilities to watch porn and after getting an app for addicts with some kind of reward system on my Smartphone I concentrate pretty much on that.

Hahaha. My phone is so crap for browsing the web that it's just tedious. I understand the desire for looking at porn. I don't have it anymore but I have other desires so I appreciate the power of it.

I'm busy fantasizing about various things related to my girlfriend and for the next few weeks I wanna work on those too. She's not in my life at the moment, physically, so none of this stuff can be acted on and I think my brain looks to fantasy to get its little hit so it's time to go quiet on all stimulus. That's related with....

I feel better, get erections just by getting near my GF and am feeling the first signs of my ED vanishing.
Happy for you! My excitation comes from girlfriend but not from being near her (maybe it would but I can't test that), but rather fantasizing about her. I'm not getting morning wood, and no wet dreams meaning my body isn't needing it, just my brain. It's frustrating actually, not being able to be with her but in good time and for now I have a good chance to go quiet on all forms of stimulus and actively focus on other things. I'm happy for you though Vince.

good day, good impulses - now I need to make them standard.
Do you have a plan to make it standard? Nothing about changing behaviours at first is automatic in my experience.

:-) Go for it Vince!

Ages 20-29 / Re: Reclaiming a part of myself
« on: July 25, 2014, 07:28:10 AM »
I've come to realise that having a specific number of days as a goal is actually pointless as far as I can see it. How often to people reach their alotted 90 or 100 days and then relapse? I think I need to just accept that I really don't want to go back to porn ever and to masturbation I want to make sure it is not that I am using it in the same way. I haven't had a relapse, I just don't understand the point of the fixed number of days. I'm trying to change a behaviour right? For me porn has been absent quite a long time though fanstasy (even if involving my girlfriend) doesn't help me for where I am at the moment. Even though she's willing and has fantasies of her own, we can't act on them for now so it's all a bit pointless to go there, more specifically if I'm by myself and not talking with her where it can be fun and sort of spontaeous. I would focus more on everything else in my life that led me to want to medicate with masturbation in the first place. I don't really like 'nofap challenge' culture. I alluded to it in a prior post.

I'm also not sure where I sit with regards to porn. I don't even want to look at video/image porn at the moment. I don't feel that my reboot is really about that. I've found that masturbating to orgasm makes me feel lonely, miss my girlfriend horribly and generally just make me feel down and pathetic, which can lead to binging. So perhaps I'm further into my reboot than just one month nofap? I just stil don't feel that comfortable about my mindset. I still really do fantasize about being with my girlfriend. And I recognise that female masturbation is a strong trigger for me, it just seems to set my arousal pathways alight.

I'm not trying to erase these urges, some is natural, but if it gets in the way of functioning, and I truly believe PMO had done that with my ED with my girlfriend, then it needs to be dealt with.

I thought I could keep the whole PMO reboot thing nice and separate from the rest of my 'issues', but I think they are all connected, and M and medication was symptomatic of another lack, which now that I'm not M'ing I can at least address. I have a goal, and certain life changes that will occure afterwards so until that time I don't really think there is too much I can do about actively pursuing a romantic relationship but in the meantime I would like to give my brain and body a chance to rest from prior habits. I do still feel the urges of course, though not really for porn.

I thought this post was absolutely brilliant:

Ages 20-29 / SURVEY: according to you what constitutes 'porn'?
« on: July 24, 2014, 06:13:07 AM »
I'm interested to know what people classify 'porn' as being.

I'll give some suggestions and if there is something I miss, please weigh in.

  • explicit video, pictures. (I have this sneaking suspicion that most will agree with this one)
  • 1 plus explicit audio
  • 1 and 2 plus written erotica
  • all of the above plus sex/masturbation forum topics
  • 1-3 plus articles about sex, masturbation, orgasm etc.
  • 1-2 plus camming
  • 1-3 plus camming, sexting
  • all of the above
  • sexting, phone sex with partner (not present obviously)
  • Bascially anything not physical that jacks your dopamine.

Ages 20-29 / Re: Saving my relationship
« on: July 24, 2014, 05:54:45 AM »
Hey Vince! Never mind man, I think it's a great thing that you are taking away from this last little hiccup some hard earned knowledge. They say that failure teaches way more than success and I mean that in the kindest sense. There´s no real failure because you´ve learned from it and are still at it! Good work  :)

I do not hit the breaks on just typing it in - i search for results. At this point I think the loss of control starts. I accept the failure at this exact moment and take into account that I can risk all my work for a quick look.

Quite honestly I think the 'failure' as you put it started way before this point. I would have once agreed with you and maintain that if someone does a search for porn and doesn´t click through but instead backs out and quits, that that is well and good but in my experience for each stage of the search through which one progresses, it becomes exponentially less likely that they will stop. As you mention in step 3. It´s like starting to fiddle will lead to edging will lead to orgasm. Your only real chance is to not start the process.

4. The search begins to expand and I binge on searching. This means still not bingeing on porn. I search without action because I get Dopamine by it. There might be still a very small chance to not PMO.

The searching is actually the problem though right? It´s the search for the final clip/image that keeps the dopamine up right? The imagery is actually only a part of it becuase THE SEARCH is the impulse. If we´re fixing our brains and our brains do the dopamine thing, then the titillating thrill of searching on the brink would have the same effect on a sensitized brain as far as I understand.

According to my observation the possibilities to do this are only given at step 1 and 2.

Right with ya! After 1 I think it's pretty much over. Only a power cut would save you  ;)

I feel really miserable about me PMOing. I lost some confidence today. I really hope to recover it. I need to get over it fast and start fighting again. But is all seems so..... whatever. I will not give up nor will I lie to myself.

I hear you Vince. Heads up about something. We´re all going through something really similar and don´t feel ashamed for having talked about your progress because everything you said was relevant for the stage you were at. Personally, I think too much energy is focused on the 'days counter' like that is the actual reboot. The reboot is a personal thing, it's a mindset, it's a decision, it's your brain and the time it needs as well as some hard f·%@ing work but it's not about 30, 60, 90, or 120 days. If you´ve learned some stuff you´ll be so much better equipped. Though I know actually breaking free is also a time thing.

Question: are you having regular sex with your girlfriend? If so have you noticed anything as a result of using less P?

Ages 20-29 / Re: Prom's Journal
« on: July 24, 2014, 02:50:15 AM »
Prom I'm glad it's coming along well! I've been reading your journal for the last...almost week and I can see an effort by you to really get active in the gym, or at least working out, maybe you do that at home, you know, one of those guys who has like their own room for that. Actually that's something I haven't gotten into, though I feel no lack of energy for it sometimes. Workouts. And I could benefit from them...hmmmmmmmmm. I do get out on my bike when I can and love to torture myself up the hills, like how much steam can I blow off before I go into total oxygen deficit? Cardio? Hell yeah. One hour above 120. I don't know what my maximum is. 180? I have mountain cyclists physique, which is to say I could benefit from some weights. I may take a leaf out of your book, and believe me, it will be a leaf to begin with! From there to a branch and from there to a bough.  :o ;D

You´re showing Promise....! Good job man, keep it coming.

Yeah, I don't feel confident socially, but I do feel considerably less anxious too.

I was never very confident socially. Probably still am not, well, it depends, because I'm a confident speaker, I just don´t always feel I can relate that well to others or don't find much of the stuff very interesting. In terms of women, I reall don't have much experience at all. I can talk to them just fine, but getting further along one sees I´m not very adept. Still, endearingly green I hope. Worked for one so I'm not trying it out on others for now.

Ages 20-29 / Re: Journal of a broken Doctor.
« on: July 23, 2014, 07:14:23 AM »
Her self esteem is rock bottom now. And it's a constant reminder of what I have done.

Maybe suggest she read some articles on and/or watch the TED talk? While you did it, just realise that your searching and escalation isn't necessarily representative of your actual tastes in sex. I mean don't think you failed totally. This shit is designed to fuck with males' reward circuitry, it 'sells' cos it sucks you in. If she can be supportive rather than playing the victim it would be better for both of you. Really, people only become addicted to something if there was a need or propensity for that addictive thing to replace some emotional imbalance - don't go creating another.

I think this will really help you in your reboot and I'm sorry to say this but being sooky and playing victim is a bit of a self-indulgent power trip by your girlfriend IF she sees you really trying and knows the exent of the science. All the best!

Ages 20-29 / Re: Reclaiming a part of myself
« on: July 23, 2014, 04:24:25 AM »
Quote from: Promise
It also helps identify which of your coping strategies you need to alter, just as you have done!

I agree. Writing is cathartic. I remember from a quote from the English television series 'Call the Midwife' about the case of adoption of children born to (usually single) mothers who had to give them up for adoption. Often this was extremely hard but for the wellbeing of the child and the preference of the adopting parents, upon their request, all communication from the biological mother to future child could be dissallowed. In one instance a mother explained in a letter to her child the reasons why she couldn't raise her; that it was not for a lack of love but rather the impossible circumstance and her desire for the child to have a better chance in life. She gave this letter to the nuns of Nonnatus House of whom one was the midwife to the birth and they acted as intermediaries for the adoption. The adopting parents didn't want the communication but the head nun kept the letter saying, 'Often it is not the content of the letter itself that is the most important, but the writing of that letter.'
I would say this gives closure for the mother, small recompense though it may be. The act of writing can be very cathartic, much like crying, though more productive. It is also interesting to note that often some of the best writing comes out of great difficulty and it sort of makes sense becuase who writes about how happy they are? And who would read it?

Quote from: Promise
How did you learn to write so openly?

 :) What a lovely thing to say! Thank you! I love languages and language in general. I speak Spanish and English and study linguistics, enjoy good rap and love poetry. I like to think I'm quite eloquent also. But eloquence doesn't necessarily help one write openly, in fact with such linguistic dexterity one can become adept at obfuscating the truth by deliving a constructive-sounding adjective salad, hiding behind verbal wankery which is why it is a prerequisite for politicians. As you put it 'writing openly' is my choice to be articulate and honest about what is happening to me. As such it is more cathartic and constructive and allows others to enter into my journey, relate to parts of it and hopefully even be able to take the good bits and help themselves as I like to do with what others write. Honestly, the effect of a genuine complement does wonders for the morale. Thanks!

As per your own journal where you touch on the late nights:

I don't have work tomorrow, but I'll push myself to get up earlyish, as getting up too close to lunch time messes with my schedule a bit.

Helloooo! I think this is a really good idea. One of my findings has been that if I show discipline in one area, it's much easier to muster it for the reboot as well. In fact reflecting on sleep I would hazard to say that with increasing stimulus we don't allow ourselves 'respiration' time. Plants photosynthesize during the day, respire at night. My experience is that the repair cycle, both physical and emotional/mental requires a rested body to support the effort. This is one great aspect about my boring job - early starts. I have to get up at 5-5:30am which means I go to bed (light out) at about 8:30pm and sleep more hours. My god does it make a difference. The time passes and I'm not in front of a backlit screen and despite being a uni student inclined to go to sleep in the wee hours, I can't because of my job and am forced to pretty much follow the light rhythm and after a period on enforced adjustment, it's actually really good. The circadian rhythm can take some time to adjust but when in sync long and regular sleep can help to regulate the body. Stress, meat and sugary foods acidify the body and an acidic body is a breeding ground for illness. Not enough sleep doesn't allow the body repair time stressing other areas. The internet is such a stimulus, and so is digital intertainment. I think all of these things are great but I do realise the effect they are having on people's rest time. I did this little test on myself regarding internet/computer (at the time not thinking to focus on porn). I stopped using it for a week during the evenings. I wanted to know what I could do instead and how much it affected me. Well at that time I didn't have Facebook (only got it recently to manage a group as secretary of a club at my uni), or Whatsapp, but was still very much a computer person. What happened?
  • Well I just wound up reading stuff and couldn't stay awake as long.
  • Slept like 4 10 hour nights in a row.
  • Without a backlit screen and the dopamine of the internet/digireality I just couldn't, ahem, keep it up! Were this not also true of other things I didn't know at the time.

@Vincent. Thanks for the kind words!

I personally have the feeling that this no PMo challenge is leading me (and probably many others here) towards this confrontation with one's own character and habits. may be brutal sometimes but it is the plain, simple, real truth.
(as alway 'in my opinion') It takes a lot to not do something, to not indulge an impulse, to choose to do nothing over something. Furthermore to do this when no one else will hold you accountable, or even know. No one is watching. To be able live a principle in that moment, to not engage shows I think some real grit. That's the proof that someone is serious right? I mean that is this:

Quote from: Vincent
Selfconfrontation is little satisfactory, terribly difficult and never ending....however: it also means that you are the one pulling the strings, questioning your actions and deciding your future.

Quote from: Vincent
I was in a distant relation ship as well and made many mistakes by improvidently writing or saying what I felt in that moment. I began a private journal, where I wrote down all my thoughts and even hypothetical letters to my GF. After reading them the next day it became obvious that I just needed to blow off some steam, rendering the content quasi ridiculous....

Ay! Dammit. You just ripped the band-aid off! This is sooooo true. Been there, inflicted that. Back when my addict brain was looking for porn in my poor girlfriend I feel I pressured her in a number of things, not just sexual ones. Though these could have stemmed from the secondary effects of a downer. I won't say none of it was justified, I have some self-respect, but I am so aware that often my actions and words were manipulative. Fuck. You hit the nail on the head. That's much better now though.

Today has been much better. A good sleep and everything just flows along. It all seem much easier! I was thinking, oh god, here we go, stop me now! -

For the last....nearly six months I've been off video and image pornography. For about 4.5 months off written erotica apart from sexting and and some very sporadic cybersex with my girlfriend. But only recently have I decided in my head to really fight fantasies of those things, fantasy usuall accompanied by masturbation. Since realising I had ED and putting that together with PMO when I discovered YBOP, I worked to reduce the frequency of masturbation. I used to be the daily sort of guy. Sometimes even more than once a day, this was even without the porn for a short period. My first attempts: 9 days, 10 days, 8 days, 12 days, 7 days were often broken with cybersex and would trigger a relapse but they did teach me a lot about my trigger points and how tough and real the withdrawal was in the early stages. I remember day two shivers, the lot. Fiddle-free is an absolute IRON CLAD must have rule. No M'ing without O, no P, no PMO, no edging. Nothing. For me this is the ONLY way to do the time. Then you have to work on the brain. The less fantasy, the easier it is. Don't be tired. Don't be disciplinarian with yourself because simply imposing rules will never work if you don't actually try and understand the emotion behind the action/impulse/behaviour. Deciding not to do something and getting all dedicated about it after having just done it (MO'd) isn't an accurate or timely option because one is acting on the brain dopamine high/determination. Do it later on when you quickly get out of the house when the chaser impulse hits you and you would say 'Oh, well I've already MO'd today, might has well enjoy this one too'. At that point say you're not going to; when you're out on you're walk and then log as your first achievement NOT succumbing to the chaser effect. Good job. One massive (possibly repeating) hurdle down. You have some momentum already.

I remember hours of PMO from a while ago. Sometimes I could lose an afternoon on and off. Sometimes if I found the jackpot with some video that drove me nuts I would literally go at it till those nuts hurt. I think my record is like 7 or 8 orgasms in a day. I wasn't even ejaculating at that point. That shit is just not possible without brain-blasting super stimulus dopamine bath porn soup. It's cocaine snorted into the eyeballs that leaves you wasted afterwards. After spending some truly delicious mornings in a tent with my girlfriend, the sad patheticness of PMOing like I spoke of above just makes me wince and cringe. The cuddling, caressing and touching and....other stuff is just SOOOO much better for my overall wellbeing. Oxytocin anyday to keep the dopamine at bay. ;D

What's with this 39.9%? Like make it 40% and let me feel better! After upping my counter I've been in the 30s for EVER! Faaarck.

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