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Messages - stillme

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1
Post-nuptials are not overly expensive, just make sure they are legally binding in your state. If not, you can just write-up divorce papers, but keep them unsigned. They are both pretty much the same thing. Ours was more expensive due to having a lot of assets, shared property, and three minor children. So, we had to work out a lot of things, including custody schedule, child support, who claims the children on taxes, and who keeps medical insurance on the children.

I am really glad that we went through the process ahead of time, because it allowed my husband to see, with eyes wide open, what he would be giving up by choosing to go back to porn and choosing to continue to lie. I figured, if that wasn't enough to scare him straight, there really wasn't much hope for him ever fully recovering. He really doesn't want the divorce, but of course he wouldn't. Right now he has the best of all worlds. But, his constant lying was making me and the children crazy, so it was clearly time end it. When even the kids started to come to me wondering why 'daddy lied so much' and them asking me if I had caught him in yet another lie, I knew we have reached a point of dysfunction where staying in the marriage would be more damaging to the children than leaving and giving them a home where they could trust their parent to tell the truth and only have to deal with their father's lies in small doses instead of living that stress constantly.

2
Emerald Blue - thanks so much. I am happy that I can say that I gave it my all and I am also happy that I am young enough (in my 40s) to still have an amazing life without someone else's issues being my burden. I am not really surprised, the data is pretty clear on how many people truly overcome sex addiction, so I was prepared to accept my husband wasn't a magical unicorn.

While this has been horrible to go through, it has been fascinating to watch and see the impact on the brain something like porn can have. To watch my husband throw away what could have been a great marriage and having a strong relationship with three of the most amazing kids in the world - just to jack off to porn, has been mind-blowing. I could see how that happens with people that get addicted to drugs and alcohol, but pornography? Thankfully, my kids are disgusted enough by the whole thing that they will hopefully steer clear of pornography as they grow into adulthood. I am also glad that I didn't sugarcoat things with my husband or make excuses for his behavior. He had every single opportunity to get better, he just didn't want to truly grow up. He made excuses for himself and will openly acknowledge that he felt like the victim because I wouldn't "get over it" fast enough. Mind you, my husband didn't just watch porn, he had at least one trip to a "massage parlor" for a "happy ending" massage, meaning he didn't just virtually cheat, he physically cheated as well, putting even my health and wellness in danger.

He has talked a very good game about wanting to do better, he has gone to counseling, he has done everything on the surface that would convince most people that he is a completely changed man. But, when you peel back the onion, he is pretty much the same guy. I maintained for a long time on this forum that there was a very bid difference between abstinence and recovery, and my soon-to-be ex-husband proved that.

But, the rest of us get to live a better life now.

3
I like https://www.chumplady.com, they have great advice.

One of the things that I did that I am very grateful for based on their advice was to get a signed Postnuptial agreement that basically said if he was caught to have relapsed, all the divorce agreements were ironed out. We are still together at the moment, but that is basically because we are slowly separating because the kids did not react well to an 'out of the blue' for them separation. We 'fight' very fair and don't argue, so the kids were kind of blown away when I asked my husband to leave the house. So, I let him come back and we have been more open and honest with the kids about how things are going. They are finally also tired of my husband lying, so it is feeling like now is the right time.

Thankfully, we already have a completed divorce agreement, just have to submit it with the state which should be done here soon.

So, one of the things I would definitely recommend is a postnuptial agreement (if there are kids and/or intertwined finances). That way everything is one the up-and-up and he can't act surprised if he decides to go back to porn behind your back. My husband knew the consequences, but did it anyway. It actually finally feels good that I will be free of all of the drama that is pornography in 2018. He is sad about his life choices, but since porn has served him so well all these years, I am sure that is the first thing he will run back to once the kids and I are gone. We are excited to have an opportunity to move anywhere we like (I work from home) and they have learned a valuable lesson about the high price adults pay when they intentionally make bad choices.

4
Ravensong - great question about asking if the process was worth it for the both of us.

I would say yes, but in a different sort of way for each of us. My husband was faced with the reality of just how bad his lying and addiction were. The thing with people that lie often is, they also lie to themselves. He saw himself as a much more honest person that only lied occasionally. When he had to write this disclosure letter, he had to admit that he hand't just lied to me once or twice, but had had woven lies throughout our entire relationship that fundamentally changed the way I saw him as a person. What is crazy is that most of those lies were completely unnecessary and the truth would have been more beneficial to our relationship and the way I saw him as a person. He also was faced with seeing that his porn addiction started much earlier than he wanted to believe. It was hard, but for the first time he was seeing himself as he was and he felt quite vulnerable.

For me, well - I had to finally come to terms with the reality that the person I fell in love with wasn't really who my husband was. For instance, as crazy as it sounds - I saw my husband as a really honest guy. I had caught him in a couple of lies early in our relationship and confronted him on them. I made it clear that lying was not acceptable. I really thought that was the end of it and that blow up where I was clear how I felt about lying and he committed to full honesty was done. I went forward with the relationship and really trusted him fully. The reason his porn addiction went on for so long was because I trusted him fully.

After disclosure and the two polygraphs (at $500 each mind you), I finally had to accept the truth, my husband is a liar. Being a liar opens you up to getting caught up in things like porn. So, I had to come to terms with seeing that porn addiction didn't make my husband a liar, being a liar made my husband susceptible to porn addiction. I say this because liars already live in a fantasy world, porn just became another part of the fantasy.

I don't want to discourage you, but I do want to give you my truth and here it is - my 'marriage' had changed in a fundamental way in which I can never say that I truly love my husband. The reason why I can say I don't truly love him is because I can't fully give myself to him. I cannot make myself truly vulnerable in a way that is needed for true love because I don't trust him. I still catch my husband in lies, and the vast majority of those lies are completely unnecessary. Some are lies of omission. Some are things he doesn't consider lying, but I do. For instance, he will say, "This weekend I am going to update our budget and go over it with you." He will had made no plans for giving over the budget, he will have set aside no time to go over the budget. Sunday will come around and I will say, "So, when are we going over the budget?" He will then admit that he didn't update the files from the latest receipts . In my mind, if you say you are going to do something that you truly have no intention of following through with - you are lying. He will argue that because he 'wanted' to do it or knew it had to be done, he thought that saying he would do it would help him get around to it. This isn't just for the budget, this can be for literally anything. However, sometimes he does actually follow-through with the things he commits to doing. So, I never really know when he is going to be a man of his word and when he isn't. I had the option of being constantly on edge as to whether or not he was actually going to do what he said, or just assume everything that comes out of his mouth is a lie. For my own sanity, I just don't trust what he says. That choice means of course that there really isn't true intimacy in the relationship, because true intimacy requires vulnerability.

As a result, we have settled into this 'marriage' that is more of a business partnership with sex benefits. In his mind, he is going to win back my true love by showing he is a stand up guy. That isn't to say we don't have good times together. We talk, we go on vacation, we enjoy our life and raising our kids. But, if I was given a time machine with the choice of marrying my husband or not, I would not marry him. My heart doesn't flutter when I see him. I won't say this doesn't hurt, it does. It rips me in two when he says things like, "You are so beautiful" and even his daily, "I love you.", because I honestly cannot know if he actually means those things or not. Especially when I found out he had an undisclosed relapse over a year after d-day. I felt it and questioned him at the time and he denied it with every fiber of his being. The only way I got disclosure was to tell him that I had already found the proof (lie) and then he admitted it. So yeah, not really a marriage of roses and rainbows.

5
Raven song,

I am a big fan of full disclosure with a poly. I will also warn you that it will be tough for your husband. My husband was absolutely on board and volunteered freely to do the polygraph - then failed it. He eventually did another one and passed. He initially passed the parts that mattered to me the most, but seeing how ingrained lying had become for him that even when hooked up to a machine and being questioned by a professional, he still couldn't speak the full truth.

You will be asked to generate questions and I would say definitely ask everything you want to know. You don't get to ask follow-up questions afterward, so think about what you need to know to move forward. I did eventually find out there were questions that I didn't ask because I thought I knew or I thought were a part of larger questions, and I didn't have truth. The test was definitely worth it and I learned a lot, as did my husband. I learned a lot more about him as a person that I did about his porn habits.

It was hard finding out that my husband was indeed a liar. I don't say that in a mean way, but in an honest way. When given a choice between truth and a lie, his default is to lie. I didn't realize that until the polygraph (and it has been confirmed more). I honestly, truly used to see him as one of the most honest people that I knew. Even though he had told some lies (big ones) early in our relationship, I had put those up to 'slips', but they weren't.

Now, I interact with him in a way that makes lying as default more difficult for him. He has to deal with real consequences for each and every lie he gets caught in. In some ways it feels like dealing with a child, but - when you practice lying for a large part of your adult life, it is a very hard habit to break.

My husband freely volunteered for the polygraph, he was on the surface excited to take it. At the results meeting - my counselor and his counselor were there and they were both just as shocked as I was that we would actually still lie during a polygraph test, knowing he would be caught. He failed two questions, one being "is there anything else you should tell that your wife doesn't already know." And yes, there was more. But, I was glad for the question, because it helped him to see that I was no longer going to tolerate living without truth.

I guess what I am saying is, be prepared if lying has become his default. I think that is a much harder habit to break than even porn addiction.


6
Part of d-day for me was seeing my husband's Twitter account. He was following a couple webcam girls (I didn't realize who they were at the time). Most posts seemed like normal posts from folks that really like attention, but a few clicks and there was full on porn. So yes, Twitter can be used not only as a porn substitute, but as a way to view porn. The same with instagram and especially snapchat.

A boundary I set up was no social media beyond LinkedIn (because it used for professional networking). Honestly, I had zero idea of how extensive my husband's social networking was going until I went into his phone and saw apps like Snapchat. I didn't know he had a Twitter account until d-day. One reason was because he had a secret email account and had his sketchy social media interactions all tied to that account.

The big thing is, if he is unwilling to stop anything that makes you uncomfortable, that is a message.

7


As for him telling every woman he masturbated too what he did, I am not even sure how to respond to that. Do you really think that would be helpful to those women? Really? Maybe this is a good topic for another thread? It is an interesting thought. I know if I asked him to he would. I know he has considered it and we have talked about it. He said it would be really scary but if it was pertinent to his recovery he would do it. I just felt like the emotional trauma could cause to these other women and families seemed less than purposeful. That was just my thought on it. Maybe that is a good thread to start a discussion on? I wonder what other men and women on here think about that?

No, I don't think he should tell every woman that he masturbated to that he did it. But, I absolutely thing someone that is your friend should know that your husband was masturbating to her picture so that she can decide for herself is 'she' feels comfortable around him. That is respectful of the friendship. It might just be me, but yes - I would want to know if one of my 'friends' husband was jacking off to my picture so I could decide for myself how I wanted the relationship to proceed. This isn't about a stranger on the street, this is supposedly someone you are friends with. I would expect my friend to respect me enough to allow me to choose for myself. I get wanting to protect your husband and trust his growth. But, what about your friend? Does she get a choice or is she supposed to be around this awkward situation and tension? Just like we as spouses could 'feel' something was going on, but ignored it - maybe your friend is feeling something was amiss and is just blowing it off.

But, whatever. I get everyone has different values.

8
I know this might not be a popular opinion, but jacking off to specific people sets up an emotional affair for your husband. He was aroused by specific people and jacked off to specific people, not a generalized 'porn'. When it comes to any affair, including emotional affairs, the rules are always no contact at the conclusion of the affair and when a choice for reconciliation is made. He should be having no contact with the person that was his sexual desire.

A year and a half clean seems like a long time to us (my husband is around the same mark), but that isn't a long time in the scheme of things. Reading the journals of many men, arrogance that they have 'kicked the habit for good' is what can lead them on the road to falling off the wagon. This is an addiction, not just a little issue. No one would tell an alcoholic that after a year and a half they can start to be sloppy and play along the edges of alcohol.

It seems like a red flag that instead of staying away from her, he instead worked like crazy to be near her. It doesn't seem like he considered your feeling or year needs, he focused on his own desire. We can't control our partners, but we can ask that they be respectful of our needs. There is no way I would be okay with my husband hanging out with someone he used to jack off to and get secret sexual pleasure from. They were a big part of his addiction, and part of breaking an addiction and staying clean is keeping clear of the things that were a part of the addiction.

Again, he wasn't just using porn, he was addicted to porn. He used people close to you as 'favorites' for jacking off to. As a show of respect to you, he should have stayed away from her. There is no way he didn't realize it would be anxiety inducing for you. He should have gone out of his way to make sure you felt comfortable. He should have come to you and talked to you, not the other way around. He should have come to you and asked you what assurances you needed, you shouldn't have had to negotiate anything - it should have been his desire to make you feel as comfortable as possible.

Also, does your friend know he was jacking off to her pictures? I will be honest that I would be highly upset if my friend's husband was jacking off to my picture and my friend didn't tell me, then let me go back around that same man. It doesn't matter if he doesn't do it anymore, it is wrong for everyone around you to know you were used as a sexual object by someone and then they are hanging out around you as if they never did anything wrong. He violated the trusting relationship between you and your friend and he shouldn't have access to her without her permission. I just know I would be pissed if I was in the position of the friend and everyone else knew the 'secret' and I had no idea.

9
Partners of Rebooters and Addicts / Re: One week after disclosure
« on: November 01, 2017, 06:44:21 AM »
Hard stop at him physically hurting you and wouldn't stop. That is not okay, period. There are some areas for relationship compromise, this is not one of them. Your safety is of primary importance. It appears his porn use has warped his sense of consensual sexual intercourse. This is not okay, you deserve to be safe when sorting out the rest of things. I definitely recommended finding a counselor or trusted individual that you can speak further with face-to-face.

10
Glad you found a great therapist. One thing to watch out for are therapy sessions that focus on your partner at the expense of your own healing. That was one rabbit trail I unfortunately endured with therapy. Almost the entire session was spent on what my husband was or was not doing, how I was coping with his progress, how I was responding to him or he was responding to me. It ended up being just another extension of his recovery as opposed to my own healing.

I eventually realized that my own personal healing needed to remove my husband from the equation completely, because healing myself was a separate situation from healing the relationship. What I needed was to heal first, I had to be the priority; then I could focus on the relationship.

11
Partners of Rebooters and Addicts / Re: article on gaslighting.
« on: October 14, 2017, 06:28:44 AM »
Very interesting accounts in here, people - thank you for sharing.

Since i found out about the term gaslighting, it's been very helpful for me in terms of understanding the mechanism people use to abuse others. Previously, I always tried to break everything down into past trauma, experiences, motivations, tactics and behaviours when trying to understand why people were behaving the way they were. But I think it's very helpful to understand the broader concept of gaslighting as an overall strategy that many people use to get people right where they want them. Sure, there are many and varied reasons for how they ended up this way, but in the end, being a gaslighter becomes a modus operandi for a lot of people. It's how a lot of people go through life avoiding responsibility for themselves and transferring it onto others.

I've come to see that I have had a lot of this from my family - they have always liked to define me in ways that make it easy to shoot down what I'm feeling or saying. I'm a real justice seeker who likes to pull things out of the shadows and expose the lies, so it's made for some fiery confrontations over the years. They probably think it's ok to do what they do because I'm so vocal in my opposition and I stand my ground. It looks like I'm willing to take it, but actually it still hurts to be gaslit. It's knowing that somebody is toying with how you feel, with your vulnerabilities, and not giving a crap because they want to win the argument or defend themselves from criticism. Gaslighting is intensely cowardly. The more people who know about this, the better off society will be.

I think this is a key to knowing who will and who won't 'gaslight' in a situation. I have found that anyone who feels like truth is a weapon, they use gaslighting as a perceived 'counterattack'. My husband's response to truth is initially defensiveness. He doesn't get angry or yell, but he immediately shuts down. Truth is so foreign to him that he feels backed into a corner or he feels he is being attacked or harmed when confronted with truth. He once tried to talk to his father about things between us and his dad literally told him, "I don't even want to hear about other people's business. I will just support you in whatever you choose." Mind you - it was my husband that had cheated and lied and imploded the family. His dad started to 'reach out' to him by sending him virtual cards all about "hang in there during the storm" and telling him what a wonderful son he was. It was like, he had to ramp up the ego building in my husband at the first glimmer of my husband seeing himself as the person he was exhibiting at the time.

So, I have learned to sit back and see how people respond to truth and honestly and if they get angry or frustrated or start to act attacked, I steer clear of those type of people. They see truthful people as individuals that need to be conquered and silenced. It becomes a competition to them and they aren't happy until you are crushed, sometimes even publicly.

12
Partners of Rebooters and Addicts / Re: article on gaslighting.
« on: October 13, 2017, 05:47:06 AM »
Excellent points raven song. My husband's lying definitely started from a dysfunctional home. In his home growing up, and still to this day, they never discuss anything important. It doesn't matter how important or insignificant, nothing is every discussed. This includes the molestation of both him and his sister when they were quite young by two different cousins (never discussed, never acknowledged, never reported even though his mother knew - his father still doesn't know). His father mentioned being diagnosed with cancer as a passing item one day over dinner. I was shocked and wanted to provide support. Everyone else just said, "Oh, that is too bad" and that was it - no more conversation. It was over and it has never been discussed with any of them again. His mother clearly has signs of dementia showing, they just simply don't say anything. It is like they have convinced themselves if you ignore something, it will eventually just go away.

Then, along comes someone like me, that likes to go ahead at the first sign of trouble and tackle it head on. My husband acknowledges that he really liked that aspect about me and that is what draw him to me. He enjoyed my talking openly with him about anything and he loved that for the first time in his life, he could truly talk about things. However, that was for talking about good things - hopes, dreams, desires, recounting fun childhood memories, etc. But, he just cannot truly and authentically break past his childhood barriers in discussing the not so fun things. Those hard and uncomfortable conversations, he just runs to his 'safe space'. For a long time, that was porn. Instead of talking, even now after porn is long gone (he has been free of porn for 17 months now), he still can't have full, authentic conversations. It is easier and safer 'for him' to lie.

What is shows is that he values his own comfort over what everyone else in the house needs. My kids are very much like me - open, honest, authentic. They have been tremendously hurt by him because they trusted him just like I did. They know I am honest. Even if I have to talk to them about hard things and things that are uncomfortable - I will be honest. They gave those same attributes to my husband. The first time they caught my husband in a lie for themselves, they were devastated. Your parent isn't supposed to lie. The problem intensifies because they are talkers. My kids know they can come and ask me anything, that is how it has always been. So, they have tried to do the same with my husband. However, since telling the truth makes my husband uncomfortable, and he can't just not answer them, he will simply lie. Sometimes it isn't an outright lie, he will lie by omission or lie by not answering the actual question they are asking. They are at a critical age and I notice whenever they have an important question, they will come to me. It was heartbreaking to see that they just completely lost respect for him.

It has been hard for me to wrap my head around, because I was raised to believe that lying was wrong and that it is better to be authentic and hurt, then lie and pretend like you are happy. In fact, I had told my husband from day one that lying was a deal breaker for me in terms of relationships, because it is so disorienting and can drive the honest person crazy. Even in the face of losing everything - his wife, his kids' respect, his marriage and intact family, he just can't break the habit. He will tell the truth if I ask just the right question, in just the right way, so that is he backed into a corner. However, that is completely draining.

We have settled into a new normal that is for me a horrible existence, but one he finds familiar and comfortable. We talk only about things that can be verified. Did he pay the light bill. Do the kids have sports practice tomorrow. Anything beyond that leaves me frustrated and drained because I will hear a lie and I just cannot let a lie stand without confrontation, especially now. It won't even be something big. You can ask him, "what color is the sky?". He will answer, "the sky is green." When you say, "Oh, to me the sky looks mostly blue." His response will be, "that is what I said." When you say, "No, you said green." He will reply, "You must have heard me wrong, I believe I said the sky was aquamarine, which is a shade of blue." To avoid this type of frustration, the kids and I pretty much just barely talk to him about anything of meaning.

I do try to have some sort of real discussion with him once or twice a week, but if feels like a counseling session in which I am walking him through the steps of how to tell the truth the first time. It is draining. Especially when I spent months supporting through is porn addiction recovery. Part of my search through things prior and after d-day showed that he wasn't just lying about porn, he had lied about bad financial decisions he had made and had even lied about parts of his past. The lies about his past weren't 'major' things, but - why lie at all? Why say you were never into porn when you had a subscription to playboy in your twenties?

I have come to the really sad conclusion that had I recognized he had this issue, I never would have married him. He hid it well, but that is because he was raised in a family that is amazingly good at hiding skeletons and even their own pain. I mean, who announces they have cancer - then never even mentions it again? We know he went through chemo and apparently it was successful, we don't know - his dad just never talks about it. His sister told me she was molested at a young age in the most random and nonchalant way and I sat there with my mouth open. I asked if her mother knew and she said, "Yeah, she said just forget about it." But, it only repressed it. She is now in her 40s, single - never been married, never had a real relationship, and she recently had a hysterectomy - so she has no chance of ever having kids. Not one person in the family connected her inability to function in adult relationships and all of her female anatomy problems to being the victim of molestation by a family member. It is like they truly have told themselves it didn't happen and she is just 'unlucky in love and health'. My husband understands that I cannot allow that type of life for my kids, but he just cannot join us on the island of truth, honesty, and authenticity. His ties to his family are just too strong. It took him forever to even come to terms with the fact that his mother was a horrible parent. You do not allow your kids to be molested by random cousins and just tell them to not say anything. She was still bringing them around the people. I had creepy feelings about one of the cousin's as soon as I met him and stopped letting my kids go to family reunions. His mother to this day is upset that I won't go and take the kids, even though I know she is still welcoming this molester. My husband's sister still goes to the family reunions, knowing her abuser will likely show up. But, she says she just doesn't think about it, so it is no big deal. That abuse and the reaction to it has completely ruined her life, and she doesn't even feel it is okay to be angry and she still worships the ground her mother walks on and thinks she is the best mother in the world.

So, I don't have a lot of hope for my husband's transformation. He is trying, I will say that. He has made some improvement. But, I am unwilling to allow my children to be harmed by his lying 'in the meantime'. So, we will stay in our status quo until I know my children are at an age when they can fully defend themselves from his lies and gaslighting on their own. Until then, I am the shield of defense. I am showing them that the first job of the parent is to protect the children from harm, no matter where that harm might come from. In the USA - lying, gaslighting, none of those things would impact visitation rights. I can't even say it is unsafe because the kids might be taken around child molesters - because no one in the family will admit to the molestation. My husband actually tried to get me to let the kids attend the family reunion last year. With a known child molester - are you crazy? So, I know he is just not able to make the right decisions if had unsupervised visitation.

13
Partners of Rebooters and Addicts / Re: article on gaslighting.
« on: October 12, 2017, 08:36:48 AM »
It is a very delicate dance, because I personally feel that gaslighting is a form of abuse. My husband is slightly coming to terms with gaslighting being a form of abuse. I always said I would not be in an abusive relationship. He doesn't gaslight now, but I don't honestly know if he doesn't do it because it doesn't work, or because he honestly knows it is wrong.

The same with affairs. During his time with porn, he really didn't consider having emotional attachments to webcam girls affairs, now he says he realizes it was - but I am not quite sure. He didn't consider going to a massage parlor for a blow job an affair, now he 'says' he realizes it was an affair. Again, I consider affairs a form of abuse.

So, I am constantly trying to figure out how you 'fix' an abusive relationship. I have tried not to turn into a woman who accepts abuse, who needed to be rescued from an abusive relationship. It is so hard looking at a person you loved with all your heart, and seeing that he actively did abusive things to you, so that he could engage in his own pleasure.

Kids have sincerely complicated things. I was so shocked this man I loved would do something that was literally psychologically abusive. It is actually one of the reasons I will not divorce him. If I divorce him, he would be granted unsupervised visitation with the children, and I just don't trust that he understands psychological abuse enough not to start doing it to the children. So, I am staying 'for the kids', but not because I am trying to pretend we have a good marriage. But, because I just don't trust that he fully gets how harmful lying and gaslighting are and I am not sure he has grown enough as a person to not play mind tricks on the kids if it would allow him to get what he wants. I still tell myself he isn't a 'bad' person, just a broken person that hasn't done deep enough work to be trusted. My kids have actually gone to him letting him know they are worried about him mentally - something I never, ever would discuss with the children. They see him struggle with making good decisions. Nothing big, but little things that should be easy for an adult. They have caught him in lies themselves. It has been very hard for them to reconcile their parent is a liar. But, even seeing the disappointment from his children when they catch him in a lie hasn't been enough to keep lying from being his default. He is trying, very hard - but when you lie each and every day for five or more years, it is a terrible habit to break.

It is a conversation he and I even had this morning. We were talking about the goal of instilling good moral character in the children. He can finally admit that yes, he lied every single day before and after d-day until about a few months ago. Not even big stuff, but small things, things that I knew already. His biggest issues lately have been micro-gaslighting. An example is he will say, "I am going to cook all weekend." He will then cook one day and say, "Yes, I promised to cook, so I cooked." With zero acknowledgement that he promised to cook the entire weekend, but only cooked one day. Instead of phrasing it as, "I know I committed to cooking the entire weekend and only did it one day", he would say it as if he did this big favor and fulfilled everything he committed to. Even the kids, who would hear him say he was going to cook the entire weekend, would look at him like he had three heads.

I will definitely say I have healed significantly more since I separated myself from the relationship. Although, there have been some physical repercussions from the stress. But, I am vying to get my physical health back as well. But mentally, I finally feel like I am complete and enjoying my life. I do still miss the idea of a happy, healthy marriage. But, I embrace being a happy, healthy individual.

14
Partners of Rebooters and Addicts / Re: article on gaslighting.
« on: October 11, 2017, 04:36:36 PM »
Gaslighting drove me mad, although what I believe my husband was actually doing was just pulling out any excuse to alleviate his own anxieties in the moment. The problem with people who lie their way out of trouble is that lies are often inconsistent. Meaning, someone can't recall whether they've lied about something and what they actually said. You believe one "truth" and then you hear another version that contradicts it in some way, so your perception shifts and you feel disorientated. My husband hadn't pre-planned any of it, I believe that like many addicts he acts according to his emotions and his primary motivation is to escape uncomfortable feelings rather than uphold the value of honesty. That would require taking a step back and seeing the situation as something other than his own emotional discomfort.

I actually realised today that I'm having a lot of difficulty relating to my husband because I never really know who he is. Until d day I thought I knew him inside and out. Now I'm not sure who he is. I don't mean in the "OMG he has a secret life" way, but it's as if he has created an outer facade or a persona. He was always one of those people who are very different in private compared with his public face. Now I'm actually wondering if he has a facade he puts on when he is with me. I'm not sure I'm actually interacting with HIM. It's freaking me out. I think this also ties in with the gaslighting. Image-management, defensiveness, worrying about how one is perceived, etc. I think it all overlaps with gaslighting.

This resonated with me so much when reading it - the entire thing. I think a lot of my husband's gaslighting came from being caught up in his lies. He also says what he thinks I want to hear, whether or not he has any intentions of following through.

Then, there is the not really knowing him. I sometimes really sit there and think that there is almost nothing I wouldn't believe about my husband. If someone said he joined a cult, I would have to give pause and think "that might be possible". If someone said he stripped naked and ran through Walmart - I would not dismiss them outright. If someone said they saw him walking down the middle of the street, babbling to himself incoherently - I couldn't dismiss them instantly. It is really quite scary living with someone and you really and truly don't know who they are as a person.

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Partners of Rebooters and Addicts / Re: Should I Tell My Wife About This?
« on: September 20, 2017, 03:23:27 PM »
"How do I tell her and when?"

Tell her as soon as possible.
Tell her what facts and truth you know (all of them) and answer her questions honestly.

My d-day came after I wrote my husband a letter letting him know I was filing for divorce. The letter was open, honest, and thorough - ten pages in length. I told him I knew there was someone else, even though I didn't know who it was. He was absolutely shocked. He then had to come to me and admit the 'who' was porn. Imagine, he was losing his wife and three young children - to porn.

The disclosure came, not as thoroughly as it should have been, but it came. The relationship is still trying to mend itself. It is sewn together as something both of us can tolerate, but neither of us really want.

I know, for a fact, had my husband come to me first - things would be significantly different.

What I am saying is - don't assume she doesn't know. She may not know 'what', but she more than likely knows something. Don't assume not talking when make it go away. Don't assume deciding to recover on your own, in the dark, without her knowledge, will be possible.

Porn addiction can end up costing you everything if you allow it to be accompanied by lies and deception. Men rarely fall in love with 'stupid' or naive women, which means your wife probably has some idea that things are right and you are counting on her loving you more than she loves herself. The moment she decides to love herself, her life, her sanity, more than she hands on to an unrequited love - your journey towards healing will be significantly harder.

Tell her, sooner rather than later. I am sure my husband would offer you the same advice.

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I definitely felt my self-image take a huge dive after d-day.

I recently analyzed some things from the timeline of events and discovered the craziest thing. I am small and although not overweight, am at the heavier side of a normal weight. I did some dieting and got down to my personal ideal weight. When I got to that size, my husband's porn use escalated. Of course, I had not idea what was going on at the time. However, I remember feeling so incredibly frustrated and angry that when I finally buckled down and did the hard work of eating right (including cooking separate food for myself than I cooked for him and the kids since carbs do a number on my body) and exercising daily - I got nothing from him. No 'good job', no 'you look nice', nothing. I really broke my heart. I ended up just giving up and putting on the weight again and stopping exercise. When d-day came around I was back at my heaviest and started to feel like maybe it was 'me' that was being rejected. However, when I finally got truth on full disclosure and could sit down with the timeline it was clear - not only was it not because I had gained weight - whenever I felt good about myself, he would double down and escalate more, get more detached, seek his own sexual satisfaction and ignore me.

To get to my healthy place again, I just ignore him honestly. I am back to eating better and exercising more and my body is looking the way that "I" want it. I don't think twice about what he cares about. I am finally at a place where it doesn't matter if he compliments me or not, I really don't care what he thinks. Not in a bad way, I just realized it made absolutely no sense to put any of my own emotional, mental, or physical health in the hands of an addict, even a recovering addict. Feeding off of him sent me to very dark places and I decided I would never let another living person have that much control over me. Now - I really don't care if he thinks I am attractive or not. I do what I want for my own health, my own personal satisfaction, and to be a good example for my children.

It has been quite the interesting conversion of events, but my biggest area of healing has been detaching myself from him. We are still married, but I doubt vulnerability on my part will ever be a part of this relationship. I decided that I am too valuable to allow myself to be at the mercy of another person, especially one that has let me down so fully, the way I was to my husband. I used to think it was beautiful to 'love so deeply', but that put me in a very dangerous position. After d-day hit, I didn't look in the mirror for months. I felt disgusting and unlovable, I felt like I wasn't enough. I was lower than I have eve been in my entire life - all because of a man rejecting me. Now it sounds crazy when I think about it. Why did I let it get to me the way it did.

I know my way isn't for everyone, but I just refuse to care about what he thinks about my looks. I work out, I eat right, my body is changing in beautiful ways and I love it, because I am doing it only for me and my own enjoyment, happiness, and an overall healthy lifestyle. I don't even ask his, never a, "Oh, how do I look?" or "Do these jeans make me look fat?" Nope, if I like the jeans I wear the jeans. If I am 'feeling fat', I wear something that I like the look better. It is glorious! My husband does try to give me compliments and I am nice to his musings, but I really don't internalize them. I couldn't care less if he means them or not, I just do what works for me. I feel significantly better now.

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Partners of Rebooters and Addicts / Re: I've finally ended it. Now what?
« on: September 02, 2017, 05:28:43 PM »
I know it might not feel like it right now, but you are FREE! Free of carrying someone else's burden. A great place to go get support is from a website called, "Chumplady.com". Oh my gosh there will be so many people there that can reassure you - you are free. You get to start living your best life.

You are not fat and ugly - you are human. A beautiful, wonderful, human. Porn addicts don't want humans, they want pixels on a screen. Honestly, if they met their biggest porn crush in person, they probably wouldn't want her either. She would be sitting on a couch naked and they would leave and go jack off to one of her videos instead. That is how distorted their ideas are when they are in the midst of the addiction.

I cannot reiterate enough - you are FREE! You didn't waste a decade or more or have children with him that would have trapped you in a hell hole for the next couple decades.

You are FREE! You are not damaged, you are not less than, you are not unworthy. You get an opportunity to live your best life now.

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Partners of Rebooters and Addicts / Re: Article on addiction
« on: September 02, 2017, 06:05:05 AM »
Thanks Emerald Blue!
I think it is hitting me a bit hard because my entire focus was on hitting that one year mark. Well, the one year mark has come and gone and while one year was what it took for my husband to fully and completely give up porn (I think, I stopped playing detective around the six month mark), what triggered me the most in these past four to five months is how little 'my' reward is for this terrible journey.

I have just never been a fake person. It is hard to admit that if I had known fourteen years ago, that this is what my marriage would look like today, I would not have married my husband. It is hard to admit that the efforts I put in to save this marriage just honestly don't feel worth it. I am glad that he was able to kick the porn habit. The marriage was failing badly as a result of the porn, so the only inkling of hope we had was for the porn use to be gone. He also would not have been allowed to freely co-parent if he was still using porn, getting sex acts performed by with prostitutes, and using real contact information on dating sites. That would have put my children in danger. So, thankfully for him - he had conquered that aspect.

What he has not been able to fully come to terms with is that - I was never attracted to him because of looks or money or athletic ability. What drew me to my husband was that he was a 'good guy'. They say that, 'girls like bad boys', but that honestly and truly wasn't the case for me. What I wanted was someone honest, someone I could trust, someone who had the same values and moral compass that I had. I had always said, from the beginning, that one thing I cannot tolerate is a liar. Lying is one of the most nasty, disgusting, harmful things a person can do in my eyes. It is the foundation of every single other harmful behavior. You can't do most other harmful things without first being a liar. To find out that not only was my husband a liar, but he was a GOOD liar. It wasn't until he moved to really acting out and it changed so many other aspects of his life did I even have a clue. He had told me when we got together he didn't even look at porn. Even though he had subscriptions to Playboy back in his college days, participated in lap dances and other such things in his college days. I am not a prude and understand young people have wild days, that would not have been a deal breaker with me. But, the fact that he just flat out lied about his life - for our entire marriage. Like, what play the role of the sexually innocent small town boy when you were getting lap dances at frat parties? And, lap dances at frat parties ten years ago would not have been a deal breaker with me at the time.

The idea that he could carry on an entirely other life, right under my nose, was traumatizing. Texting webcam girls while sitting on the couch with me. Rushing to put my kids to bed so he could have pre-scheduled virtual sex sessions with online prostitutes. Using medical appointments as cover to get a blow job from a prostitute - just a week after my birthday, just wow.

Now that his crisis is over, I finally have time to think. What he can't understand is that I didn't just need a guy who didn't use porn anymore. I was going to take a lot of hard work to overcome all the craziness he did with porn and sex addiction. Especially because, what I feel in love with about him was that fact that I could trust him. I felt like I could share my deepest thoughts, hurts, dreams, fantasies with this person. I thought I knew him just as deeply as he knew me. Then I found out, he had an entirely 'other' life. It is like I was living with a stranger.

His idea was for us to 'start over', without understanding that if we were starting over today, I would never pick him. He is trying desperately to get me to stay in the marriage, but doing all the wrong things. The truth is, the only reason he is still in the house is because of the kids. But, I think I am doing more harm than good by letting him stay. I want to show the kids a happy and healthy marriage and this isn't it. I think the best thing I can show my kids is that life doesn't require you to be a martyr. I did my part, I stuck with him through his lowest points. I supported him in his biggest time of need.

Now, I want my life back. I want to look forward to my days ahead. I am just not looking forward to a life with him at this point.

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Research states that it takes 3 - 5 years to rebuild trust in a relationship. So, you feelings right now and normal and completely okay. The one who should be doing the hard work of rebuilding trust is him. What are the things that you need to feel reassured? Let him know those things and he should be willing to agree to them if he truly wants to rebuild the relationship.

Playing detective is a lot of work and I would advise against it. Trust what your gut is telling you. Let him know what you need to feel more secure that he is doing the right thing. There is some reason why you are not feeling comfortable, let him know and see if he is willing to do what it takes to help you feel more comfortable.

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Partners of Rebooters and Addicts / Re: Article on addiction
« on: September 01, 2017, 06:46:19 AM »
EB,
Thanks for the articles you posted. I particularly liked the one from the Institute for Sexual Health. I think that Dimension 5 in particularly is of utter importance. Part of it states:

Furthermore, it is imperative to note that because the addict is the “identified patient”, the partner or spouse often may end up “holding down fort” and being “the together one” in the early stages of the process.  This may result in a profound submerging of trauma, a form of extreme traumatic constriction based on survival.  It may only be when the conditions have stabilized, or there is actual increased safety or functionality in the sex addict or family system, and the perpetration and abuse (SAIP) stops, before a partner could ever contact or metabolize her traumatic fragmentation and dissociative experiences.  This SA-induced traumatic submergence is a characteristic of this dimension of trauma and needs to be accounted for in both conceptualization and clinical intervention and treatment.
The omission of recognizing the external and practical stressors that the injured partner may have to manage, such as “holding down fort”, while traumatized, often induces or exacerbates SAIT.  The seeming assumption that the partner is “functional and obligated” becomes disorienting in light of the partner’s subjective and actual experience of self.  This is often linked with ego-fragmentation, which both perceives and adapts to reality.  Thus, essentially, it is often during a critical injury of ego trauma, that the partner is then implicitly mandated to perform gender-based or parent-based obligations.  This can sometimes link to gender wounds in that often women are taken for granted for this “work” (gender-based trauma) and in the context of experiencing SAIT, this “normal work” can become a source of trauma exacerbation and/or include traumatic incidents and processes (Minwalla, 2012) based on external crisis and destabilization (Jason, 2009).

This, is honestly, the biggest issue that I have faced. Both in real life as well as in this forum when feeling attacked by others. The concept is this - when the shit hit the fan with porn addiction/sex addiction - all focus was on the addict. My husband was in crisis and needed to use the vast majority of his energy to actively fight the addiction. While he was doing that - I had to keep the ship upright. We have children, a household, and just 'life' itself. I didn't even truly, honestly get a chance to deal with my particular trauma in the moment. If we were both focused on ourselves, who would be raising the kids? Who would be helping with homework, getting people to soccer practice, making sure everyone is fed and clothed, making sure the house is clean?

Once my husband got through his first 90 days, then 180, then a year with no relapse, I could finally be honest about the truth of my trauma. The not only emotional and mental trauma, but the physical issues (headaches, back pain - like absolute severe pain with no 'physical' cause other than stress). But, at that point, he felt things were overcome, things were good. He couldn't understand why I was walking around now 'suddenly' bitter and angry and complaining of being tired. I thought I was finally going to be safe and have someone that was ready to carry the load, and carry me, the way that I had carried him. Unfortunately, he was ready to 'move on'. He was ready for fun and sunshine and rainbows. It was like, because I had buried the true impact of the trauma I experienced for so long, I should be 'over it'.

He wasn't mean, he was honestly just confused. He couldn't understand why I was being so sensitive. He couldn't understand why "all of a sudden" I was being emotional or frustrated or feeling overwhelmed. What was more, even on this forum - the focus was all about how we should be ready to forgive and one can 'hold a grudge for too long' and all other sort of dismissive ideals. It was like, people were extremely understanding of the porn addicts need to focus fully on recovering from the addiction. But, little account was taken with what a partner that had to take up the slack had to do. Yes, we talk about taking care of ourselves, but the reality is - someone had to come last when there are kids in the home. I carried my household on my back not only through my partner's addiction, but through his recovery. When I was finally ready to hand things off so I could truly, honestly heal - I found a man that had pretty much become a narcissist. Not in the bad, manipulative sort of way, but in the way that he really and truly cannot think of anyone but himself. Even when he tries to do something for me, it ends up being things that make him feel good about what he did, rather than something that I really needed.

I have gotten to the point where it has become clear that I am never going to get what I want and need out of the marriage relationship. He just doesn't have anything to give. I am glad that I stuck by him through his recovery, I would never let my children around an active porn addict that was starting to act out sexually with prostitutes and going on dating websites looking for hookups. He would have not been legally able to have a relationship with his children if he was still an active porn/sex addict. But, it has been hard realizing that there wasn't a 'happy ending' at the end of the rainbow for me. I am holding out hope that once my children are grown, I have finally have an opportunity to truly go out into the world and experience what life may have to offer. I am trying to keep myself healthy so that there will still be some life left for me to live once I have put in the hard work of raising kids.

This 'after trauma' is so real, especially for those that didn't get an opportunity to truly deal with their trauma in the beginning because they had to be the 'adult'.

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Thanks for the kinds words, Anna. It is absolutely amazing going through this journey. Not so much 'fun', but enlightening.

EB, our husband's sound very similar. What my husband has finally come to terms with is that in order for the relationship to continue, we have to deal with all the 'stuff', and a lot of that 'stuff' are the times when I needed him as a husband and he wasn't there. Originally, he wanted to cover everything over as simply the porn addiction, but that wasn't enough. I needed for him to acknowledge each of those times and deal with them, feel them, since I had to live through them myself. Also, acts of absolute selfishness needed to be dealt with, and for the larger ones, dealing with them one at a time. It wasn't enough to apologize for being selfish, he needed to acknowledge the specific things he did. It is almost as if through his porn use he had completely re-written life events and scenarios.

He is finally coming to terms with just how much of a freaking jerk he had been for five years of our marriage. That he wasn't just using porn, he was emotionally unattached, incredibly selfish, and not acting at all as a loving husband and even being neglectful as a father. He needs to deal with those things. He doesn't like the feeling, but is finally committing to really doing it. We were having a conversation yesterday about some things he did on a holiday we took and said, "Yeah, that guy was a jerk and a fool and I need to bury him." He had not acknowledged just how bad he was.

We will see if he is able to keep up with the the process of untangling. He has cut his parents off for the most part, so that should help. Time will tell and I am taking things slowly.

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Stillme, thanks for this great post. You've had to face some very challenging realities in the past year and you have shown remarkable fortitude whilst maintaining stability for the kids. I have enormous respect and admiration for your strength and clear mindedness.

Quote
You must peel apart and deal with all the aspects of behavior that accompanied the addiction. Again, this is in line with abstinence is not recovery. Just because someone no longer watches porn doesn't mean they have stopped lying. Just because they no longer PMO doesn't mean they are not selfish.

My partner's upbringing was very difficult because of what was happening within his family. What was going on in that family was off the scale. He'd had a lifelong vulnerability to depression and episodes of extreme anxiety. In many ways, having to put on a false front was a skill he had to learn at a young age just to be able to function in the real world beyond the family. Unfortunately this made him vulnerable to porn addiction, although it could just have been any addiction. After d day, after quitting porn, so much of this stuff came up to the surface. Of course, it doesn't mean he's not immune to relapsing. His brain still has those hardwired pathways and his natural inclination is to lie/disguise/omit. Not out of wilful badness but because that's what that family did to conceal it's true circumstances.

Thanks for sharing your insights. X

Thanks EB. That is very similar to my husband's issue. He idealized his parents and their marriage, because he was led heavily by them to believe it was 'normal'. Things that would make one's head spin (like not reporting an individual that molested his sister because it would bring unwanted attention to the family). He had to imagine manage and suppress a number of things. It wasn't until he was in counseling that it came to the surface that he himself was molested by a cousin at five years old. He had been led to believe it wasn't a big deal. His father's alcoholism was tolerated as acceptable. He and his family would even get in the car with him and allow him to drive drunk until I put a stop to it when we were engaged. That was a clue to the level of dysfunction that I didn't act on when I should have; I mean - what adults willingly get into a car with someone who is visibly drunk - especially when my husband and mother-in-law had not had a drop to drink. They (and I) were all completely sober! Three sober adults and you willingly give the keys to a drunk driver?

As the onion has gotten peeled back, things have been incredibly hard. Mainly because my husband has still at times, even recently, just wanted to go back to old habits of suppression rather than dealing with the situation head on. On some levels, I can understand - dealing with deep, tragic things that happened far in the past can be painful. I cannot imagine what it is like for someone like him to have to deal with emotions that he grew up being forced to suppress. But, that is truly the only way to completely shut the door to the vulnerability of addiction. He is finally to the point where the pain of not dealing with those things is larger than the pain of dealing with them. Because I was willing to walk away to ensure my children grow up for the rest of their years in a healthy household meant I would leave the relationship rather than allow another generation to believe that dysfunction and ignoring reality were honorable and appropriate character traits. The pain of losing his current family is finally larger than the pain of dealing with the dysfunction of his past and even the current dysfunction of his parents.

But, that healing would never have taken place if I would have been willing to compromise for the sake of staying married. I had to recognize there were things worse than divorce and having kids grow up being co-parented by divorced people is better than growing up in a home that says dysfunction is good and adults not being willing to fix what was broken.

23
Since I am passed the year mark of d-day and being the partner of a recovering porn addict, here are some things that I have personally learned on this journey when it comes to me, my relationship, and the impact of porn addiction and porn addiction recovery on my family:

1. Trust your gut. There are a few reasons why trusting your gut is advised. The most important is that it allows you to validate their own feelings, ideals, and experiences. Even if you are wrong about how you interpret your gut feeling (for example, I knew something was 'wrong', but I didn't know it was porn addiction, I thought it was something else), your inner voice should be acknowledged. That inner voice serves as your body's own 'personal protection system', a subconscious early warning system that something that is damaging to 'you' is near enough to sound an alarm. Respect that voice.

2. A love martyr is not an honorable role to pursue. Love at any costs, supporting someone else even at the cost of your own dignity, pride, and self-esteem, is not a sign that you know how to love bigger, better, or more deeply than others. Love without appropriate reciprocity is a set-up for an emotionally, psychologically, and otherwise abusive relationship. When you deny your own needs in an effort to love someone else, you run the risk of both individuals being torn down. Because loving someone strong while they are not required to have the same commitment to you breeds narcissism in those individuals.

3. Make yourself the first priority. As is said on airplanes, "in case of an emergency, secure your own mask first". I can say with pretty much 100% certainty, my husband and I would have been better on, much earlier on, had I focused on my own needs exclusively first. The back and forth of caring about how he was doing, then how I was doing, then back to him, created what felt like a psychological frenzy - it began to make me feel crazy.

4. The person who breaks it is the person who should be primarily responsible for fixing it. That 'it' goes from anything from the marriage relationship to kitchen windows. Only babies and toddlers need someone else to clean up their messes. My trying to 'fix' the marriage relationship when I wasn't the one who broke it infantilized my husband for way too many months. It allowed him to become selfish when that should have been the opposite of what he was doing. It wasn't until I threw up my hands and said, "Nope, life it easier as a divorced couple, I am done." that he began to step up and work with the concentrated effort required. It was also significantly more helpful to him, because he had to on his own address those issues that would hinder the relationship if not dealt with. It also helped him to stop feeling so out of control.

5. There is always an underlying issue accompanying addiction. If that underlying issue that left the person vulnerable to addiction is not addressed as part of recovery, there is no recovery. As pointed out in an article I linked here recently - abstinence is not recovery. The hard work is dealing with the underlying issue.

6. People treat you how you let them treat you.

7. Trust actions, not words. Judge people by their actions. Judge progress by the actions you see. Acknowledge when you see things that don't look like recovery.

8. Love and marriage/relationship are two different things. Being willing to leave an unhealthy relationship does not mean you don't love the other person. Someone being desperate to stay in the relationship doesn't mean they love you.

9. You must peel apart and deal with all the aspects of behavior that accompanied the addiction. Again, this is in line with abstinence is not recovery. Just because someone no longer watches porn doesn't mean they have stopped lying. Just because they no longer PMO doesn't mean they are not selfish.

10. Listen to the experiences of those that have been there/done that instead of believing your partner will be the magical unicorn with a miraculous recovery. Listening to people, especially those that ended up being betrayed again or finding out their spouse was lying about recovery were some of the most helpful. It was because I was able to look at my situation and look at my husband in more realistic terms. I was also able to  help him in a 'scared straight' sort of way, by showing him that he was acting like a narcissistic addict. He got to make a big decision and that was to do the real work, the hard work, the intensive work, and do things he never thought he would have to - like severely limiting his interactions with his parents due to the shitty baggage carried from growing up with narcissistic parents. Being able to sit back and call things what they were extraordinarily helpful. Love bombing, image management, hyper bonding - those things can 'feel' like something they aren't when not examined through a realistic lens. The way must husband could become part of that "5% success rate" was to do things that WEREN'T typically done by recovering addicts. Listening to the real experiences of others also allows me to have appropriate expectations and protections (including legal protections for the benefit of my kids). Other partners who ended up getting betrayed again in the end didn't stay because they were weak minded. They stayed because their spouse showed all the 'signs' of recovery. Addictive personalities can be very, very persuasive and many even fool licensed psychologists and therapists. Again, look at actions, not words. Don't trust, verify. Call out the 'little things' early and often. Be a skeptic. Don't compromise on what you need for health, happiness, and wholeness. There are partners that stayed that didn't learn the entire, horrible truth (there was never a real recovery) for five, ten, and even twenty years. When you stay, get the best relationship. Have a life that will have been 'worth it' if you find out you are in the 95% category later on and not the 5% of unicorns.

11. If you have children, protect them from falling into the trap of generationally harmful behavior. My husband was vulnerable to addiction because he had a very dysfunctional upbringing that he honestly thought was normal. His family looks amazing on the outside. However, they are filled with lies, betrayal, abuse, etc. We have been married almost 14 years and I am still finding out things that happened that make my head spin. Bring EVERYTHING to light for your kids. When you see those dysfunctional behaviors trying to rise up in them, deal with them immediately. Deal with the gently, but firmly. One thing we have had to deal with recently with our kids is lying by omission. We deal with every single solitary issue that they picked up by living with a father that was a porn addict for five years of their formative years. I love my kids too much to let them walk one step down this road if I can help it. We practice openness and honesty and that life is much easier when you admit you faults and that it is better to deal with issues and fix then than to hide them and act out in secret.

I may add to this list as I think about things. But, that is what I have learned thus far in my journey.

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Partners of Rebooters and Addicts / Really loving this video series
« on: June 13, 2017, 02:52:09 PM »
This video series on the Myths About Partners of Sex Addicts is really, really good. This is the first time I heard a professional discuss things we have literally talked about on this forum. It is really hard to hear at times because some of the damages of counseling discussed are things I have heard in counseling myself - wow.

This is the first video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA8cAhrnKGo

There are four videos in the series.

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Partners of Rebooters and Addicts / Re: "It's all we ever talk about"
« on: June 13, 2017, 02:24:43 PM »
Mik (or Nwalt, whatever). C'mon, man. You're working on being a better person. Remember? No need to pour gas on the fire.

What's gone on here is miscommunication. It's easy for misunderstandings to arise in topics where emotions run high. Forums don't always allow for fully grasping where another person is coming from. I do not believe Nikola meant to be hurtful. I believe he means to be helpful and merely conveyed it in too abrupt a manner.

Whom do you speak of madam? I only know what I see, which is Nikola politely disagreeing, and getting dumped on by immature children as a result. I suspect there is a reason Malando is warning newbies signing up to stay the heck away from the partners section, unless your only intention is to kiss the ground they walk on. Duly noted, I'm not getting involved, though I may comment from time to time on the antics :D

Wait, we are "immature children". Dude - weren't you jacking off to porn so much you broke your dick - or are you just here for fun. This is HILARIOUS! Yeah, being a porn addict is a sure sign of maturity.

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