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1
Porn Addiction / Re: On becomming a Patreon of Gabe Deem
« on: November 24, 2020, 01:22:36 PM »
GABE'S INTERVIEW WITH MATT FRADD

I am going to break down Gabe's interview with Matt Fradd, but before I do want to remind all members that every little bit can help Gabe educate people about how excessive use of porn can alter brain pathways and become problematic for some people.  So, go to the Patreon link, above, sign in, and give a few bucks a month.

This not a report on the interview, but my thoughts on points raised in it. 

I don't know Matt Fradd, nor had I heard of him before this interview, but the first thing he broadcasts is that he is very Catholic.  This makes it interesting, because I am a totally secular individual and believe in no religion.  But, if you do, no haters.

Talks about Thomas Aquainus and lust.  Thomas Acquinas was a Catholic thinker and philosopher who existed approximately 800 years before the brain science that currently supports a porn addiction model existed, before psychiatry, as we know it, existed, before neurology and neurological studies of the brain existed.  One of the big problems in running an analysis of porn addiction through a religious filter is that we have to add additional, debatable, often contested, always complex concepts that are completely unnecessary to an understanding of this problem which is simply use of High Speed Internet Porn to trigger a brain reward event, which many of us call a dopamine high.  Just-that-simple.

Matt is REALLY into Thomas Aquainus.  There are worse hobbies, aka porn.  So, better this than that.

One of the first interesting--I would say problematic--things that Matt does is to equate porn with lust.  Concepts such as lust are loaded, and your recovery will probably be more efficient if you simply accept that a relatively new technology, High Speed Internet Porn, created, again, approximately 800 years after Aqinus's death, is a relatively new tool humanity figured out to use to obtain a dopamine high.  It is a very simple, almost mechanical event.  Watch porn=sexual thoughts, sexual thoughts=dopamine high.  Just that simple, no demons rolling around in there pushing you to do it.  Do it enough and your brain becomes dependent on the high, so much so that when you quit, your brain suffers withdrawals, which is where you have achieve the condition many call porn addiction.  This is a cause and reward event, in your brain, period.  Trying to get clean in the context of morality and religion is for the most part unhelpful in my opinion. I see a lot of guys trying to fix themselves in a lot of ways here, when in fact this place is most efficient if you use it to fix your porn problem.  After that if you want to become a saint, do it, but you will find success most efficiently in this place if you use it as a tool to fix your porn problem.  What is "fixing" your porn problem, what does that look like?  It is quitting using porn to get a dopamine high for long enough that you quit missing the high.  That takes time and effort and is painful.  Just know that going in and know the pain goes away. 

Matt says quitting porn is a way to live a more beautiful life.  Maybe.  I have said it a bit differently in that quitting porn makes having a better life more likely, but quitting it, in and of itself, does not make your life better.  If you have problems in your life, and we all do, facing those problems without compulsive porn consumption makes it more likely you will fix them. 

Matt likes beer.  I like beer.  Obviously we both like to use external stimulation to achieve a dopamine high, so there must be some bridge between us.

Gabe comes in about 4:30 into the show.  Gabe experienced porn at an early age.  Most of us do.  Since the 50s porn has been commercial, open, a money maker, and mass produced. 

Then, around 2007, we invented High Speed Internet Porn.  Before that a lot of us loved porn, or, could use it to trigger a neurological reward event, which is how you must conceive of its use.  Forget everything you think you know about what porn is, because it is none of those things, it is a tool you have been using, unconsciously, unwittingly, without education, to produce a stimulation that is naturally occurring, naturally healthy, naturally absolutely necessary to the survival of the species, but with the invention of HSIP can be triggered in an unnaturally regular and recurring way.

This is a relatively new event, use of HSIP.  Porn has been around forever.  Many of us get a dopamine high from it, and have for as long as there has been human records.  But, HSIP is new, different, unique, and makes the current problem possible. 

Gabe became sexually active at 14.  Porn use competes with actual sex as a brain reward event.  Porn is more efficient that sex in achieving a dopamine high.  This can lead the brain to prefer porn over actual sex, which leads to what we call porn induced erectile dysfunction.  At that point the porn addict can get an erection with porn, but not with an actual partner.  That happened to Gabe.

This was early days in High Speed Internet Porn, and Gabe had no idea what the problem was, so he went out and researched it.  That lead eventually to this site and others coming into creation.

Gabe did not believe porn was a problem.  Neither did I.  I denied porn addiction was a real thing.  Then one day I had to admit it was.  That day sucked, but that thought is a thought I had to have to overcome this.  I have become skeptical about the concept of "porn addiction", but I can report I had to have that thought about myself in order to overcome compulsive porn consumption, which technically is producing a dopamine high over and over, daily, for years.  We likey. 

Gabe did the masturbation test, which is if you can rub one off without porn, porn may not be the problem, but if you need porn to reach O, and cannot with a partner, you have a porn problem.

Gabe talks about neuroplasticity, or the ability to change the brain, the ability of you, an individual, to condition, or re-condition your brain not to miss it.  That is the thing about porn.  It is not so much you condition your brain not to love porn, not to trigger to it, to hate it; the real challenge is conditioning your brain NOT TO MISS IT.  If it was easy to give up, it would not be called an addiction.

Gabe talks about the reboot, or trying to set the brain's pleasure expectations back to a natural level, or a level that would exist in humanity prior to the invention of commercial porn, and, especially HSIP. 

Now, a lot of humans experience HSIP as adolescents, who are especially vulnerable to developing reliance on porn to achieve an artificially produced dopamine high.

Novelty, searching for something new, never seen, never experienced, is also associated with a dopamine reward.  This is in part why pornographers and the tube sites are constantly churning out new porn.  Old porn eventually starts to cause less of a dopamine high, and in order to achieve that higher dopamine high the user must move on to new and different porn.  This will sometimes cause what I call moving through the categories, meaning many users end up watching porn that they do not see as their normal sexuality.  That is where some people determine that there is a problem.

Gabe talks about occasional use, and says don't do it.

Gabe talks about Reboot Nation.  I don't know if Gabe does anything else, but this is one reason why anyone here should support him as a Patreon.  Talking about porn addiction and porn generally may be his main income.

Matt talks about porn as an addiction, and implies it is not, and that calling this problem that trivializes real addictions. 

Gabe talks about behavioral addictions.  For me, it all misses the point.  Addiction or not addiction, if you have problem stopping, you have a problem.  The addiction, if it exists, is not to porn, but to the dopamine high you can use to achieve it.   

Gabes talks about sensitization, Pavlov's dog, desentization, and resensitization.  Gabe believes porn is addictive.  Again, the word is older than Aqinus, and I think we need a more modern language to define this.  Regardless, the brain studies show that the brains of people who get a dopamine high from any trigger light up pretty much the same way and a dopamine high is a key aspect in all behaviors we call addicted. 

Gabe describes addiction as continued use despite negative consequences. 

She who shall not be named is discussed.  She denies porn addiction, but her studies seem to support a porn addiction finding.

Look, porn is used, and ONLY used, by people to achieve a change in the brain.  Without the dopamine reward it would be interesting as watching paint peel.  Think of porn as a tool.  It is not something that is happening to you, it is something you are doing to yourself, to achieve a brain change, a brain reward event, a dopamine high.

Gabe says education is everything, he is absolutely right.  We need to teach kids about how the brain works, about using triggers to achieve a dopamine high.  Whether addictive or not, we can use many things to trigger a dopamine high.  Gabe says big business sells dopamine highs, not just porn.  Gabe is a believer in support communities.  Reboot and Nofap were very helpful for me.  Writing and responding to posts is helpful to the recovery.  Get off the sidelines, get in the porn quitting game.  Totally sucks, quitting porn, because you are denying yourself a dopamine high you have been using for years without knowing you were using it.  But it helps to be with others when going through that total suckiness.  Yes, suckiness is a real word invented to describe quitting porn addiction.  Just made that up.  The solution is to rewire the brain not to miss it.  Missing it is called withdrawals.  When the withdrawals go away, you are recovered.

Gabe talks about replacement activities.  I think that especially in the quitting phase, you have to have them, and need to plan on having them in advance of quitting so that when the withdrawals do happen, and they will, you already have a plan to fill in that time NOT WATCHING PORK, aka NOT GETTING HIGH.

Gabe says to avoid replacement activities that generate a dopamine high.  Very important for a newbie to understand.  You are addicted to a dopamine high, not porn, so trying to replace porn with another means of achieving a dopamine high, such as video games, is just you continuing to use.  You are going to have to consciously avoid artificially produced dopamine highs for about 90 days, and let's be honest, you need to avoid ALL dopamine highs for that time period as well.  Why?  If the problem is dopamine highs, and it is, you need to retrain your brain to live without them for a while.  Did I mentioned this sucks?  It is going to hurt.  Know that going in.  It will be physical, mental, and emotional pain, and you are going to want to use to make those horrible feelings go away, but you are going to have experience those horrible feelings to get clean.  This is easy advice to give and hard to take, but be glad when you feel withdrawals, because that is a symptom of your brain rewiring.  It is not a life sentence.  The worst, and maybe all, are over in the 90 day reboot period, for most people.  But that is if you really do it and do not cheat along the way. 

Gabe talks about using exercise in the reboot and beyond, and Matt agrees.  Let me translate.  Over the last 2 million years the human brain evolved so that certain experiences were rewarded with a dopamine high.  Pretty much, the two most rewarded activities are sex and eating.  But, in both cases, thinking about sex and eating also achieves a dopamine high.  Why?  Because thinking about sex and eating leads to searching for sex and eating, and searching for sex and eating leads, often, to the real deal.  Nature figured out a long time ago that to motivate humanity to do these things is a big step into us actually engaging in these activities.  It is the same in all species.  The most successful species are those that can survive, and reproduce, and neurological rewards are why these activities are engaged in.  So what Matt and Gabe are both talking to is engaging in behaviors that look a lot more like activities humans engage in well prior to the invention of HSIP.  We were a lot more physical then, so it helps to replace porn with physical activities and exercise. 

Gabe and Matt agree about socialization.  Porn is a highly unsocial and solitary behavior.  One of the painful things in the reboot that will help you get back to more or less normal is reaching out to others and interacting with them.  Learning to interact with reality as opposed to pixels is painful, but necessary.  Do it, talk to people, be nice to people.   I am actually a misanthrope, so doing this was difficult for me in the reboot, but I did it anyway, and it was helpful.  Go mow someone;s yard, help the landlady get her groceries in, encourage someone. 

Avoid super normal stimulation.  Translation:  avoid anything not occurring in nature to achieve a dopamine high.  Get your dopamine highs the old fashioned way, which will be difficult, especially at first, because it means living with a lot less highs. 

Matt asks about sex addiction v. porn addiction.  They are not the same.  All addictions involve use of super stimulation to achieve a dopamine high.  Porn addiction requires no sex.  Sex addiction does.  Porn is not sex, sex is not porn.  Sex can be healthy, but porn is not sex, and is unhealthy.  Gabe points out how porn can be more efficient at getting a dopamine high than sex. 

Matt asks about therapy.  This is where, in part, I diverge from the porn addiction model.  One of the big problems we have is that while, in this place, Reboot Nation, porn addiction is accepted as real definable condition, out in the real world, it is not.  The DSM does not recognize it as an addiction.  Part of my problem with calling it an addiction is that addictions are deemed maladies or illnesses, something to be cured, and most addiction models translate that as need to be cured for life.  I now understand that what we call porn addiction is just the result of having used porn to condition my brain to achieve a reward event, a dopamine high.  The cure is not, in my opinion, therapy, but education.  I know of no one who went to therapy for porn addiction and over came it, but I know a lot of people who got educated and quit it.  We will have to see where it goes in the future.  From an evolutionary perspective, the understanding that porn is a tool to achieve a dopamine high, and the ability to measure it, is  about two seconds old.  Placing it in the category of a thing that is an illness that requires treatment to achieve a cure is taking it in a direction that may be premature to take it. 

Nonetheless, Gabe talks about treatment with sex therapists and says they might offer some help.  Gabe says one looking for external help should seek out a Certified Sexual Addiction Therapist. 

Matt asks about relapses.  Gabe says every day without porn aka a dopamine high, it is progress.  He is right.  The most efficient way is 90 days hard mode, but every moment not being high helps bend the brain back a little to a pre-porn brain, with pre-porn dopamine expectations.  My advice is, for the most efficient fix, go hardmode 90 days, and maybe try and go hardmore for as many times as you need until you achieve it.  Once you get clean, once you get to the days where you don't miss the high, I promise you are going to NOT want to go back to it, because quitting it once is hell, quitting it twice is hell times two.

Gabe talks about changing your lifestyle during the reboot.  There are some simple tricks.  For instance, if you can give up internet for the hard 90, do it.  If you have a smart phone, get a dumb phone.  It you must use the internet, get blockers.  If you have accessed porn in a private or secretive manner, put the computer in a public place, and don't access the internet unless people who can watch you are present.  Keep your door open at work, at school, in the dorm, in your house, and move your computer to where people passing can see what you are watching.  Make plans, now, for what activities you are going to engage in when the withdrawals hit.  Develop distraction techniques, means of stopping a two second sexual thought from becoming a dopamine soaked sex opera in your head.  Don't wake up one day and say today is the day I quit.  Make plans for how you are going to quit, how you will fill the time you have been using watching porn with something healthy and non stimulating, and plan on when you have a sexual thought, how you can shut it down.  I have heard some people wear a rubber band and snap it really hard when the thoughts creep in during the reboot.  Plan now for what will happen in the moments when your brain punishes you for not giving it the high you have been giving it, for years. 

Matt asks about sexaholics anonymous.  Gabe discusses the addiction for life model, and disagrees with it.  I agree.  This addiction is not for life.  I don't wake up anymore and plan my day around how to get high.  I don't think about porn or using it to get high most days.  I no longer miss it.  I don't need weekly meetings not to watch it, not to use it.  Gabe says nothing against SA, and there are some advantages, but some of it he does not agree with.  The state of "not missing it" means the withdrawals are behind me, and my brain is pretty much back to normal factory settings. 

Gabe says change how you view porn.  Exactly.  Quit thinking of it as anything other than a tool to get a dopamine high.  Do not romanticize it, do not believe you see your sexuality in it, at all.  View porn as a conditioned bad habit that your life will be better without.  Long term consequences of porn consumption are nothing but negative for your brain. 

Gabe was recently married.  Did not know that.  Congratulations.  He has a normal sex life (implied, not stated). 

Matt talks about pornography being counterfeit.  It is.  It is fake, it is false, it is not real.  You can use it to get high, but if you want to quit you have to intellectually commit not to, as in not getting high.  It is not just in porn, but commercial sexuality permeates society.  Sex sells because it gets our attention, because getting our attention is giving us a dopamine high, which we love. 

Gabe talks about escalation through the porn categories.  If you have this problem, you have almost certainly done this.  Shocking new content helps achieve a dopamine high, once you become desensitized to the porn you first started with, which probably reflected, in your mind, your normal sexuality.  You probably started at vanilla, and are now way outside your initial genre. 

Gabe talks about how this condition is a conditioned condition.  You did it to yourself, it did not happen to you.  You trained your brain without knowing it. 

Gabe talks about Reboot Nation and his Youtube Channel as good sources of information.  They are.

Thanks Gabe and Matt for the video.  It was interesting.

Much love.




 

2
Porn Addiction / Re: On becomming a Patreon of Gabe Deem
« on: November 13, 2020, 02:02:07 PM »
QUESTIONS FOR GABE

Part of being a Patreon of Gabe is getting messages in your email from Gabe with helpful information.  This month it was an invite for a Q and A.  That is helpful, and in fact I would suggest Gabe create a new section on this forum that allows persons to "test" their knowledge of what is going on in their head.  One cannot beat this without knowing those, and a test format might make it more interesting for some.  Most of the people that arrive here arrive without a lot of good science, and they need that to make the most efficient exit from the problem. 

If you wonder what being a Patreon is, it is simply giving Gabe financial support.  I am set up on a recurring monthly payment.  Not a lot of money, but if a lot of us gave a little every month, it would be helpful.  There is a link, higher up on this thread, you can click to join.

So, my question to Gabe is a bit different someone here struggling to quit, because I quit years ago, I don't love the word "addict", and if this is an addiction, it need not be a lifetime problem.  For me, currently, it is no problem at all.  Once I understood I was using porn to achieve a neurological reward event--which we all really, really love--then the solution became apparent:  Quit using porn to achieve the reward event.  That is a very simple solution to a problem that is, if you have trained your brain to expect to get the event daily, often multiple times a day, painful and difficult to implement.  But be aware of what you are.  You are a human, you are a member of the alpha species on the planet.  We eat pain, and often inflict, every single day.

Question to Gabe:  It looks to me like the high water point for what we call "porn addiction" happened a few years ago, and that since then, with more awareness, less and less young people are exposing themselves to porn, or using it unwittingly, to get a dopamine high.  Do you think this site, others like it, and messages like you and Noah Church put out, have had a positive effect on less people using porn to get high, and by extension become what we call porn addicts?

I wonder if Gary Wilson has a sense of this.

Would love your thoughts. 

3
Porn Addiction / Re: Help me
« on: November 04, 2020, 06:41:03 PM »
It should be high at 19, but is this the place for you to find help.  Porn addicts have high libidos, they just focus on porn.  I am not hearing how porn has been a problem for you.  Has it?

4
Porn Addiction / Re: Help me
« on: November 04, 2020, 01:51:57 PM »
What do you see as your problem, what do you see as your goal?

5
Porn Addiction / Re: I can´t be free
« on: August 31, 2020, 09:08:03 PM »
You have to surrender to being human.  It's not so bad.  You just need to own yourself.  You are just us.  You are just a human being. 
We are who we are. 

No te rindas contigo mismo. Tenemos que aprender quiénes somos. Quiénes somos no es perfecto, pero está bien. Solo necesitas entender quién eres. Eres igual que todos nosotros. Solo necesitas ser dueño de ti mismo. Necesitas tener el control de ti mismo y estarás bien. No se desesperen. Vas a estar bien. Promesa.

Paz.

Vas a estar bien.

Es hora de seguir adelante

6
Porn Addiction / Re: On becomming a Patreon of Gabe Deem
« on: July 03, 2020, 09:23:56 AM »
Ok.  I don't give much, but if a lot of us here gave a little, it would be a big help to Gabe, who has done as much as anyone to help people fucked up by the invention of High Speed Internet Porn. 

Is it an "addiction"?  I don't like the word, but it is a word I used for years, because it is the word that is, and has been, available. 

Is it for life?  NO.  Whatever you wish to call this condition, with time and effort, it can be fixed.  We call it the "reboot", but, in actuality, it is training your brain to live without the neurological reward and dopamine high that hypersexual thoughts can produce.  The studies show that brains of porn addicts light up pretty much the same as brains of drug addicts, and that is because, neurologically, is practically the identical thing happening:  We use a trigger, other than sex or food, to get high.  Though you are going go have to give up porn to fix the problem, you need to understand that porn is just a means to an end; the end, the high, is a neurological reward.  That reward by the way is perfectly healthy, and necessary; it is not a bad thing, it is just that humanity has figured out a lot of unhealthy ways to achieve it, and for some, porn is that way to achieve it.  Becoming self aware is very important to fixing the problem. 

This addiction is different from other addictions, while it lights up the same areas of the brain that they do.  We have made the distinction between behavioral addiction and substance addiction.  Not for sure the distinction is all that real, but, that said, no one overdoses on porn, and no one dies from withdrawals. 

If you have the problem you have to first recognize you are not addicted to porn, per se, you are addicted to the neurological reward event porn--and even more exactly--sexual thoughts, create.  Am I saying sexual thoughts are addictive?  No, not normally, but they naturally produce the reward event.  It is just that, via porn, we can turn that reward event from a gentle rain to a tsunami.  Porn is a means we can use to spike the reward event.  Be self aware, understand what you are doing, when you are doing it, and you will have greater success in becoming who you want to be.  Throw out all your conceptions of porn, forget everything.  You have an idea that porn = something.  Forget that, and accept it is a tool you use to get high.

Gabe does not like the idea of AA's "powerless" model.  I completely agree, and, no insult to the many that have benefited from AA, its concepts are approximately 90 years prior to the neuroscience that we currently use to study the effects of AB and C on the brain, whatever that trigger is.  What we know is that the reward mechanisms that result in this problem have existed for millions of years, and are absolutely crucial to our survival as a species, and before the invention of High Speed Internet Porn were not much of a problem except for little things like drug addiction, alcoholism, sexual dysfunction and violence, homicide, rape, depression, anxiety, and war, to name a few.  We were fucked up before the invention of HSIP, it is just that HSIP is yet a new way we have found push a neurological reward button, resulting in some of us becoming fucked up via a relatively new means.  It's OK, it's not tragic, and the very good news, if you find your self in the trap, is that the trap does not have to last forever.  I have been clear for years; I do not struggle at all with not accessing porn.  Unlike some addiction models, this model is not a lifetime model; you can fix it, and then make choices about who you want to be.  My advice is:  Fix it now, forget everything you thought you knew about porn, and just take time to get clean.  Once clean, figure out how much artificial sexual stimulation you want in your life.  We float in it, whether you call it porn or swimsuit mags, it is all around.  It can even be fun, just so long as you are controlling it, and it is not controlling you. 

I have the idea less and less people are experiencing porn in an addictive way, as more and more people understand it can become addictive, or that their brains may become reliant on porn to achieve that neurological reward event.  They told me about drugs in school, and consequently I did not use drugs.  No one told me about High Speed Internet Porn, and God forbid we teach our kids about anything sexual.  Sarcasm by the way.  It is important to Get Educated. 

Now, click on this link, and support Gabe.  I think he is the only person you personally know who is trying to help you with this problem.  It takes a credit card, and I suggest you put $5 a month, which is deducted automatically.  I will spend 10 times that on fast food in a month, so, that equals a couple less fries for this month, which, coincidently, will not hurt your waistline.  Put a little skin in the game of fixing this problem, and you are going to be more likely to fix the problem, and the problem CAN be fixed. 

Much love. 

Click it.

https://www.patreon.com/gabedeem

7
Porn Addiction / Re: On becomming a Patreon of Gabe Deem
« on: June 21, 2020, 12:04:09 PM »
Just received Gabe's "Flatlining" video.  Found it interesting, and I have seen a lot of people post about the flat line, but, I never had that problem.  If you have that problem, watch the video, and while you are at it, I recommend you sign up for a monthly payment to Gabe through the Patreon app.  This is not a subscription service, so it is totally free to the members, but Gabe has to pay money to keep the site up, not to mention the hours every week he is here trying to support people who develop this problem.  Throw a little love at him in the form of a couple of bucks a month.  More if you can afford it. 

The concept of "porn" can be confusing, and it means a lot of different things to a lot of different people.  Once you understand that it is a tool to cause a neurological reward event, aka a dopamine high, you will have taken a huge step toward fixing the problem.  What is "fixing the problem?"  Fixing the problem is quitting using porn for the noted end AND doing that for long enough you don't miss it anymore.  For some people, there is the terrifying thought that they cannot control their porn consumption.  Truth:  Everyone can, but if you have been reliant on P to get that rush for a few years, it feels like it is in control of you, and not the other way around.  Quitting porn is a process, not an event.  I see a lot of newbies show up here and announce "I quit", only to be back in two days or two hours lamenting a relapse.  It takes time to become reliant on P, it will take some time, months anyway, to cease relying on it.  When I quit I thought it was the most difficult thing I had ever done.  Now that I have been quit for a long time, it amazes me I ever found quitting difficult at all.  What I am telling you is that the struggle you will undergo when quitting is real, but, also, out on the other side, it gets easy.  The struggle goes away. 

Hope this helps.

Much love.


8
Porn Addiction / Re: On becomming a Patreon of Gabe Deem
« on: June 01, 2020, 09:43:59 AM »
Below is a link to support Gabe Deem.  Does not cost much, and it is an investment in your future.  Put some skin in the game, and you are much more likely to win the game.  If you are on the sidelines just watching, no pain no gain. 


https://www.patreon.com/gabedeem

This situation can be described as many things.  "Addiction" is the word most of us here use.  I don't like that word.  It carries a lot of baggage.  It implies disease, or sickness, illness; something that must be cured.  It carries some shame.  It was helpful for me, in the beginning, to use the concept.  It put a name on the problem, and I needed to name the problem in order to create the solution.  But I am not for sure the word is adequate to describing the problem.  If you are here, you are not sick, you don't need to be cured, and there is no shame.  Your brain is a computer.  Feed it certain input, and you will get certain output.  Just that simple. 

So, about 2007, we, as in us, as in humanity, invented a super neat tool:  High Speed Internet Porn (HSIP).  HSIP was one of the most efficient tools we have invented to trigger a neurological reward/motivational event that we love, aka a dopamine high.  A dopamine high is sort of like feeling like the best you can feel, the most alive you can feel, for a moment, for those that have the problem.  That neurological event, by the way, is naturally occurring, totally healthy, and absolutely necessary for the survival of the species.  If you are a newbie, one of the most important things you can do to overcome what we call "porn addiction" is to forget and reject everything you think you know about porn.  It's all wrong.  Porn is not addictive, porn is just a depiction of sex.  But, depictions of sex leads to thoughts of sex, and thoughts of sex, naturally, lead to the neurological reward/motivational event that is a dopamine rush.  This happens without porn, but porn is a tool that makes achieving that reward event easy and efficient.  You need to demystify porn, you need to de-romanticize porn, you need to forget everything you thought you knew about porn and realize it is simply a tool.  It is a means to an end.  It is a button.  Your solution is to quit pushing the button, and thereby quit getting high.  Probably the most difficult thing for persons with the problem is recognizing they are getting high, then embracing that they are going to have to give up getting high.  I can tell you this, but you will not believe me, until you do it:  giving it up is not so bad, once you have given it up for a while, and once you have given it up for a while, you will cease to miss it. 

Gabe is going to be posting about "flatlining" for Patreons soon.  This problem is funny in that it is not the same for everyone.  I never flatlined.  I never had PIED.   Those were symptoms of this problem that some experienced, but I never did.  For those of you who have experienced those problems, I strongly encourage you to become a Patreon of Gabe, which costs a few bucks a month, but which gains you a bit more of personal insight from the man who has done so much to bring this problem into focus. 

Much love. 

9
Porn Addiction / On becomming a Patreon of Gabe Deem
« on: May 05, 2020, 05:31:48 PM »
Below is a link to support Gabe Deem as a Patreon, through the Patreon app.

I just got my first Patreon video, sent directly to my email.

Tne of th things I have learned is that we almost ought to have a "test in" doorway, for new members.  New members can use the resources here to learn about the problem, which might better be described as having conditioned, or trained, their brains, via porn (sexual thoughts) to produce a neurological motivational and reward event.  We have been doing that for as long as the species has existed, and that reward event is this species evolved mechanism for encouraging reproduction.  Whether one considers themselves "addicted", or not, if you have a brain, this reward event is a big part of your existence and perception of reality.  But recently, around 2007, we invented High Speed Internet Porn, which is when this problem started being reported, and we are still playing catch up with it. 

We are still early in the study of what it is, how it works, how to "measure" changes in the brain, and, honestly, while this place has helped many people, including me, we are still taking a shotgun approach at how to fix it.  Once we applied the word "addiction" to the problem, it was intuitive that we would use preexisting addiction solutions to fix the problem.  I am not a big proponent of using the AA model for what we call "porn addiction,", because I know the solution to the problem is, essentially, to do the same thing we did to cause the problem:  Make a commitment to training your brain to live without the neurological reward event. Gabe is a fan of the AA model.  He may be right; it may be the best way, but I got clean on my own, with help from forums like this one.

In any event, if you are a person with this problem, Gabe Deem has sacrificed thousands of hours of his time to help YOU.  He does not get paid for this unless we pay him.  I signed up to be his Patreon a while back for a very small fee.  He deserves more, but it is what I could afford.  I urge everyone reading this to click on the link and support Gabe.  It is not much money for us, but if we had a couple thousand people support him, even at a very low contribution, it could make a real contribution in this very good, and honest, man's life.

Much love.

https://www.patreon.com/gabedeem

10
Ages 20-29 / Re: One Day at a Time.
« on: May 01, 2020, 07:39:58 AM »
11

11
Ages 20-29 / Re: One Day at a Time.
« on: April 30, 2020, 07:34:30 AM »
10

12
Ages 20-29 / Re: One Day at a Time.
« on: April 29, 2020, 06:25:27 AM »
9

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Ages 20-29 / Re: One Day at a Time.
« on: April 28, 2020, 06:46:55 AM »
8

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Ages 20-29 / Re: One Day at a Time.
« on: April 27, 2020, 06:24:40 AM »
Day 7.   Going for a run.

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Ages 20-29 / Re: One Day at a Time.
« on: April 26, 2020, 08:49:10 AM »
Day 6.  No problemo.  That is pseudo-Spanish for no problem.

Getting lonely on this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRbP9m-C-1o

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Ages 20-29 / Re: One Day at a Time.
« on: April 25, 2020, 08:50:16 AM »
Day 5.  Clear.

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Ages 20-29 / Re: One Day at a Time.
« on: April 24, 2020, 07:21:31 AM »
Day 4.  AvRF28 are you still in?  Clear.

18
Ages 20-29 / Re: One Day at a Time.
« on: April 23, 2020, 07:03:56 AM »
Day 3, clear.  This is like push ups.  We just have to get up and do it. 

Tomorrow, day 4. 

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Ages 20-29 / Re: One Day at a Time.
« on: April 22, 2020, 07:14:10 AM »
@Mindful Days.

Looks like we are jacking your thread. 

Day 2.  Clear. 

We are shooting for 90.  Easy Peasy, Nice and Easy.  Just kidding. 

20
Ages 20-29 / Re: One Day at a Time.
« on: April 21, 2020, 03:42:14 PM »
OK, here goes.  This will be my day 1, and I will attempt to post here every day up to day 90.

21
Hi Mr. Wilson, I cannot stand to leave you hanging, so, response as follows (all in good fun).

Because the word is too small.

Because it is antiquated, outdated, inexact, inapt, and is 2,000 years behind the neuroscience. 

Because, as initially formed, the word has nothing to do with how we use it today.

Because, as utilized, currently, it implies sickness, disease, illness, and malady; something to be cured, something to be treated, and once it becomes defined as a "disease", only doctors can treat it, and they get to charge the insurance companies millions and millions to fix it.

Because it is a billion dollar word.  Billions in profits, potential billions in loss, potential billions for treatment.

When I quit porn, by which I mean, when I quit using porn to (unconsciously, unwittingly) achieve a neurological brain reward/motivation event, it was helpful for me to think of the thing I was quitting as "porn addiction."  Now I know there is no such thing as "porn addiction", and the word "addiction" is too small a word to describe the event.  **If you are reading this and have the problem, it is still helpful to think of it as "porn addiction," but this is not me telling you how to fix it, this is me trying to find words to describe what it is. 

This is what happens when we look backwards to find words for things we never understood, until recently, and, honestly, we have a long way to go and much more to understand about the human brain and the use of porn as a trigger to a reward.

Science needs to develop better linguistics to describe the event, which is actually more complicated than how I just described it.

The implications for regulation and taxation are immense.  We regulate and tax addictive things.  We limit their use.  This is why cigarettes and alcohol are regulated and taxed, and why some drugs are deemed illegal.  I, myself, do not really believe the porn industry is that concerned about whether the word "addiction" is pasted on to the word "porn"; statistically speaking, I think it is a very small group of people that form a relationship to porn use that is troubling or dependent.  But, coupling those two words has huge implications.

Not just regulation and taxation, but medicine. 

I suspect the AA model is the basis for treating what we call addiction like a disease.  Addiction does not occur in nature, because it would be a negative survival trait.  An animal that distracted could not hunt, and would be easy prey.  Humans have altered their environment so much they can survive addicted. 

But addiction is no disease.  Addiction is, actually, the result of training, conditioning.  We can be trained to "like" just about anything, with enough time and enough reward, even if we do it unconsciously.

I think Gabe Deem has said something along the lines of "If I had been taught it could be addictive, I would have not used it."  Well maybe not a direct quote, but, there it is.  Education is key.  If people know, from an early age, that porn consumption can be habit forming, a lot of people who are here, would not be.   

The fix, for one who has become dependent on daily porn consumption, is as simple as you have said:  just quit.  But while it is that simple it is not that simple.  Words, again.  Quitting is not simple.  Quitting is the simple solution, but the solution is not that simple, because once a person has trained their brain to expect that reward event, well, to be Mr. Obvious, their brain expects that reward event. 

This gets into the question of what is the definition of addiction.  Is addiction defined in the consumption of the thing, the trigger?  Non addicts might define it as that.  What I know is that addiction is at least as accurately defined in the response of the individual in quitting it.  You have measured the brains of people we call "porn addicts", and have recorded that their brains light up exactly the same way as drug addicts.  Tru dat.  But, another measurement would be to measure the brains of those quitting whatever thing we have identified they are addicted to.  Are those brain functions identical, as well?  Put another way, the focus of most academics studying this problem is measuring the brains of those using or anticipating using; is there a way to measure the brains of users going through withdrawals.  What goes up must come down, and we have focused on the take off, not the landing. 

Where I am going with this coronavirus rant is that the word addiction, like the concept of addiction, may need to be altered or expanded, or shrunk. 

Addiction is not a disease.  It is a trained, learned, conditioned, a response to stimulus. We do not "catch" it; we do it to ourselves, and if we knew we were doing it to ourselves, a lot of people would not do it.  Being aware of what we are doing is both key to avoiding the problem, and, then, quitting it.  Don't get me wrong, I like tits as much as the next guy, and, honestly, I pride myself on liking them a bit more than the next guy, but once I understood I was watching tits to get a dopamine high --  thanks to you --  it became substantially more easy to quit what I was addicted to, and I was not addicted to watching pixel tits, I was addicted to the dopamine high I was using them to achieve, by generating a sexual thought.  It is not what we see on the screen that produces the neurological reward event, but, rather, what we think of it, the brain's response to it.  . And yes, I DID use the word "tits" constructively, in a sentence.  Mother would be so proud.     

The word "addiction" is loaded.  It comes with a whole lot of preconceptions, and not all may be merited.  While many things have been described as addictive, not all addictions are the same, not quite. 

Mr. Wilson, I could not have quit porn, which I used daily, without you, and your writings, and your Great Porn Experiment video, which was brilliant, despite the fact you do not feel it was academic enough.  For the record, porn addicts don't need to be neuroscientists to quit; they just need a basic understanding of what the problem it, and that video gave us that. Thank you.

But, respectful observation, you are pushing hard to put "porn addiction" into the DSM, and it does not belong there, not IMO, not as such. 

The problem is not you, not your neuroscience studies, not the concept of "porn addiction", not your definition of porn addiction; this is no criticism of you.  The problem is the DSM, and the first word of the DSM, which is "Diagnostic", which flows from "diagnosis."  Words, again.  Diagnosis defines the identified event as an "illness".  Coronavirus, for instance, is an illness.  We catch it.  The phenomena we call "porn addiction" is not something we catch--yes some people are more prone to it--but it is the result of training one's brain to achieve a neurological reward/motivational event.  There is no treatment for it, the solution, as you have said, it "just quit."  Of course, quitting does result in withdrawals, but your solution is the only solution.  I think any definition of "addiction" cannot rely on observing compulsive, repetitive use, but must also involve observing and, if possible, quantifying the the withdrawals that come from ceasing consumption. I don't think anything can, correctly, be deemed an "addiction" unless the user gets withdrawals when they quit, and (it appears) more often than not, people can consume a lot of porn, and do, and a lot of people who consume a lot of porn, for a long time, can put it down, easily.   

But, what we call porn addiction, is different from some other things we call addiction, such as drug addiction. 

So, I Googled "death by overdose", just for fun, (I know, my fun is not your fun) and the first statistic was that in 2018, 67,367 people died by overdoses.  Not one of those was by porn.  As much as I am sure a lot of us would love to overdose on porn, not one person has, ever.  I then Googled "death by withdrawals".  Statistics here not so specific, but, yes, people can die from drug withdrawals, and alcohol withdrawals.  Not one recorded case of porn withdrawal death.  Nor cigarettes, nor gambling, nor sex. 

Does this mean that the concept of porn addiction is inaccurate or incorrect?  No, at least not for these reasons.  I think the words are too small to accurately describe the event; people can become dependent upon the use of porn to achieve that neurological reward/motivational event; but it is not, exactly, the same as other addictions.

This distinction need not be a point of toxic contention--not that you have ever done that, because you have not--others have, such as she who shall not be named (never say her name, she can hear it and put the cruciatis curse on you, which is quite mild compared to porn withdrawals).  But the neuroscience of what we are calling porn addiction is new.  We find ourselves at the beginning of the conversation, not the end.  In 100 years, what we think we know now, might look like voodoo then. 

Similar, but not exactly the same....I actually did not figure this one out until the end of the video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsRjQDrDnY8

Keep up your excellent work, and also keep your sense of humor; "a little song about internet porn".  We are talking about the most absurd animal on the planet:  Us.  Only we could figure out a way to devise a computer then stream sexual images while rubbing one off, over and over, for years, and still survive.  It's a strange fucking world full of strange fucking people, because, by definition, people are strange.   Jim Morrison, a rock star, said that.  He died a long time before most of us here were born, and way before the invention of High Speed Internet Porn.  A true visionary. 

The reality is, whether it is porn, or something else, we will find ways to trigger the neurological brain reward/motivation event, and the technology is on the horizon to allow us to put an electrode in our brains to do it, with no artificial trigger.  For those dedicated to experiencing the neurological brain event, at any cost, that is the way they will, eventually, get their high. People always want a thrill, even if it is a stupid one.  A friend came to my house not ten minutes ago to show me a picture of a stacked, nearly naked, blonde he is having a phone conversation with.  I hated bursting his bubble by telling he she is actually a 78 year old filipino man, with no teeth, trolling the internet for money.

Much love. 


22
Porn Addiction / Re: Help Support Reboot Nation
« on: March 20, 2020, 10:10:36 PM »
It takes Will and Determination to get a grip on this.   

I just signed up for two dollars a month.  I will drink ten times more than that in coffee a month.  It's not so much, and he can use your help.  Let's help Gabe. He is carrying a pretty heavy burden.  He is here to help you.  He is trying.  You know anyone else is trying?  WE can try too.  I don't think he must carry it alone, and all help is appreciated.  If you are reading this, and you fucking ARE, chip in.  It's not much, just a couple bucks a month. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i65kX8cnswg

What?  You want to live forever?

W ishing you would help.

OK.  I want to live forever...but...  Get in the game.  Make positive change.  You can do that.  Help the man.  He is helping you. 

Much love.


M

23
Porn Addiction / Re: Porn Gave Me A Limp Noodle - Why I Told The World
« on: September 05, 2019, 08:09:34 PM »
Like.

24
Porn Addiction / Re: Research study looking for participants
« on: June 29, 2019, 02:01:46 PM »
This study, like others posted here, presumes something that should not be presumed, and that is that everyone here considers themselves an addict.  After the initial disclosures, the first question was, something like, do you think you have a problem with using porn.  I don't, anymore, so I answered no.  The next screen said:  We thank you for your time spent taking this survey. Your response has been recorded.  The survey is skewed because it presumes only those actively addicted have insight to give into porn addiction, when, in fact, it is probably the opposite; those who were addicted, but have overcome it, probably have far more insight into porn addiction than a newbie porn addict, who may actually, still, believe it is "porn" they are addicted to.  It is a perfect example of people studying something they have no idea about, but are carrying in incorrect preconceptions.  You don't really need to ask newbies about their addiction, because they don't understand it. You need to talk to people who have overcome it. Gabe Deem could give you more valuable information in 10 minutes than asking newbies questions for two years. We are way beyond asking "what is porn addiction" or "why is porn addiction."  We know the answers, they are not sophisticated, not complicated, just basic neuroscience.  Save yourself some time; every question you think you want to explore has already been explored by Gary Wilson of Yourbrainonporn.  It's been done, it is already done. It's like starting a study on what causes blood clots--WE ALREADY KNOW. 

Peace.

25
Porn Addiction / Re: Today = ONE YEAR!!!
« on: April 15, 2019, 06:33:06 AM »
Excellent work .22.  Thank you for showing how it can be done. 

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