Reboot Nation

Journals => Ages 20-29 => Topic started by: Lero on May 22, 2019, 09:48:39 AM

Title: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on May 22, 2019, 09:48:39 AM
 Hello, everyone!













Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on May 22, 2019, 09:50:14 AM
May 22

I've had urges but they are bearable.

Urges: 4/10
Relapses: 0

Since May 18 I had no relapse.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on May 23, 2019, 04:59:32 AM
May 23

I dreamed only about porn before waking up to hard urges. Fantasies didn't want to leave my mind. My balls were like concrete.

Urges: 8/10
Relapses: 1

Trigger: I didn't do anything about the urges. I fooled myself that I could go past them with willpower. Therefore, I just stayed in front of the computer and let porn dominate my mind. I had things I could've done and I should've gotten up and do them. I ended up downloading a porn movie from torrent and, as I watched the download approach its finalization, I wanted to delete it but I couldn't do it. I couldn't talk myself out of it. I feel tired now. I consumed a part of my energy with this PMO session. I am craving another one but I will not binge and go on. The good thing is that I didn't indulge myself in a long edging session. It was a short PMO. It took a few minutes. 

Warning for myself: You can't do this with willpower alone!

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 23, 2019, 05:49:35 PM
Very true, willpower won't get us very far. For me, I really have to focus on taking care of myself emotionally and reacting in more healthy ways to triggers. It's not just about stopping PMO but about healing from mental and emotional habits that fuel addiction.

Keep it going: we're in this with you!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on May 23, 2019, 05:51:49 PM
Very true, willpower won't get us very far. For me, I really have to focus on taking care of myself emotionally and reacting in more healthy ways to triggers. It's not just about stopping PMO but about healing from mental and emotional habits that fuel addiction.

Keep it going: we're in this with you!

Thanks, man. The thing is, I could've avoided it but I made the mistake to think I could handle it with willpower. It proves me I can't so I have to recalculate.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on May 24, 2019, 07:52:20 AM
May 24

Urges: 1/10
Relapses: 0

I woke up in the morning feeling bad. I have no urges and this is good because they tormented me one day ago. My mood is pretty bad, so different from yesterday. I feel low in energy with no motivation to do anything.

The good thing is that I didn't binge yesterday. I've moved from 5 relapses in a week to only 1. It's progress. It's a success that I could pass the relapse day without binging. Even though I didn't binge, the PMO session from yesterday seems to have reset me to my usual state after a relapse.

Every day without a relapse is a success.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 24, 2019, 06:30:11 PM
That is progress! Way to keep at it!

Becoming more aware of my mood has been huge for me. I used to think that PMO was just my uncontrolled appetite for nudity and sex, but I've started to learn that it always starts with me feeling down in the dumps about something. I always face the worst urges when I'm feeling sad or frustrated about something, so I've started paying way more attention to how I'm feeling and trying to take better care of myself.

Keep on going, and just focus on getting through one more day!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on May 25, 2019, 04:15:34 AM
BlueHeronFan, many thanks, bro!

Quote
I used to think that PMO was just my uncontrolled appetite for nudity and sex

You know, I used to think the same. I thought that I felt horny because of high libido but it was, in fact, withdrawal - urges because of porn addiction. Realizing this has helped me scratch that idea that I was a horny motherfucker, always thinking about sex. I realized I was just a normal guy but porn made me like this. There was nothing wrong with me.

Quote
but I've started to learn that it always starts with me feeling down in the dumps about something. I always face the worst urges when I'm feeling sad or frustrated about something, so I've started paying way more attention to how I'm feeling and trying to take better care of myself.

Yes, I know how this works. We might end up using PMO as self-medication. It's also good to realize this too and see that we actually should live our life like normal human beings, not running away using addictions. Funnily though, yesterday I had a shit mood but no urges  :D Maybe because of the relapse two days ago?

Quote
Keep on going, and just focus on getting through one more day!

That's the idea. Every day without a relapse is a success. I used to PMO 5-6 times in a week and now I did it only once. This is progress. I'm trying to reduce the number of relapses to the minimum possible for this month. I mean, a month between May 18 and June 18, because I started on May 18. I know how many PMO sessions I used to have in a month, now I'm trying to reduce that as much as possible. Ideally is 0 but I am not perfect. Relapses might happen but the idea is not to indulge in them and let myself go and PMO 30 times.

Okay, man, keep going too!



Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on May 25, 2019, 03:13:51 PM
May 25

Urges: 7/10
Relapses: 2

I had a better mood than yesterday but the urges returned and they were annoying. It's ironic how a bad mood brought no urges but a better mood did. I handled it well during the day but I relapsed because of alcohol.

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on May 26, 2019, 08:57:13 AM
May 26

Urges: 3/10
Relapses: 8

The follow up of the drinking session from yesterday left me with anxiety.

I can't fucking stop PMO-ing. I'm out of control.

Edit: What a fucking binge! I can't believe it. But I know the problem. I have to stay away from alcohol. I've relapsed many times because of it. From tomorrow, no drinking. Alcohol made me PMO 10 times in only 2 fucking days! No more alcohol, that's it. And I have to learn how to deal with the urges. That's how I relapsed last time. Never to repeat the same mistakes again.

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 26, 2019, 06:09:17 PM
That's it, just keep learning about how the pieces fit together. I can't count the number of things that I thought were harmless because they weren't PMO but that were actually doing a lot of harm by contributing to my PMO problem. Recognizing the things that lead you to PMO is a huge step in the right direction
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on May 27, 2019, 04:06:12 AM
That's it, just keep learning about how the pieces fit together. I can't count the number of things that I thought were harmless because they weren't PMO but that were actually doing a lot of harm by contributing to my PMO problem. Recognizing the things that lead you to PMO is a huge step in the right direction

That's what I try to do: Recognize what makes me relapse and avoid it in the future.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: RebooterOne on May 27, 2019, 04:20:34 AM
I have the same problem. I cannot drink alcohol not because I have problem with it but because it makes me relapse on PMO.

Try to stay away from alcohol but don't avoid socialising, meeting with friends or going to parties. You may stand out if everybody around is drinking and you are not but it isn't a bad thing.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on May 27, 2019, 04:34:14 AM
I have the same problem. I cannot drink alcohol not because I have problem with it but because it makes me relapse on PMO.

Try to stay away from alcohol but don't avoid socialising, meeting with friends or going to parties. You may stand out if everybody around is drinking and you are not but it isn't a bad thing.

That's right, I can't drink at least for a while. It just sent me to a crazy binge yesterday, PMO-ing 8 fucking times like when I was 15! If it doesn't help me, I get rid of it because my recovery is the most important right now.

Yes, socializing includes alcohol a lot of times but there are other things to do than drinking with your friends. You could go to tennis, bowling, whatever. That's what I do. I tell him: "Nah, man, let's go play pool," when he says: "Let's go for a beer." You see, alcohol raises my anxiety and I PMO because of it. Also, when I am drunk and I have that state of "I don't give a fuck", I PMO too.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on May 27, 2019, 05:01:18 AM
May 27

Urges: 1/10
Relapses: 0

Low energy. My anxiety is also elevated. Both drinking and the PMO binge have contributed to this.

This time it's clear: Drinking two days in a row was the problem. I made the decision to stay away from alcohol.

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on May 28, 2019, 04:51:55 AM
May 28

Urges: 1/10
Relapses: 0

I feel better than yesterday.

Thinking about quitting P is thinking about P. Thinking about urges is thinking about P. I'll try to take all those out of my mind and occupy it with what I have to do today.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 28, 2019, 06:22:04 PM
May 28

Urges: 1/10
Relapses: 0

I feel better than yesterday.

Thinking about quitting P is thinking about P. Thinking about urges is thinking about P. I'll try to take all those out of my mind and occupy it with what I have to do today.

Glad you're feeling better. And you're exactly right, focusing too much on quitting is still focusing on P. I've always done better when my schedule and mind are full of other good things. Since this isn't about just quitting but also about healing more generally, it's important to focus on building a quality life and not just willpowering through no more PMO.

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on May 29, 2019, 05:30:45 AM
Glad you're feeling better. And you're exactly right, focusing too much on quitting is still focusing on P. I've always done better when my schedule and mind are full of other good things. Since this isn't about just quitting but also about healing more generally, it's important to focus on building a quality life and not just willpowering through no more PMO.

Thanks, man.

Yes, there are things that I haven't been doing out of procrastination because of lack of mood and energy brought by a lot of PMO. I'm trying to get more days without PMO because this will give me more energy and mood to do more things.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on May 29, 2019, 05:34:42 AM
May 29

Urges: 3/10
Relapses: 0

A little more urges than yesterday but nothing annoying. I feel all right too. My state of mind is fine. After 11 days I have 11 relapses  :D Ha! I'm trying to keep the number of relapses under 20 for a month. 1/3 of this month (May 18 - June 18) is gone.

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on May 30, 2019, 09:04:46 AM
May 30

Urges: 4/10
Relapses: 4

I've fucking said I would stay away from drinking! I've repeated the same mistake! This month, the only days when I PMO-ed more than once have been the days when I drank! Fuck! I let myself be taken by the wave. I really need to cut this out of my life. What's curious is that I didn't have big urges during those days but it's like alcohol brings an urge type of its own. It raises my anxiety and it destabilizes my mood. 

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 30, 2019, 06:08:10 PM
Sorry to hear about it, but that's a great thing to be aware of. It's not just about quitting PMO but about healing an addiction. I think we'll only really improve when we start addressing the the real reasons for our addictions.

Keep peeling back the layers and taking your life back. Relapse or not, everything you learn is progress!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Reformed Fapper on May 30, 2019, 08:20:20 PM
So its obvious that alcohol is the trigger for fapping. Alcohol is great, but as it lowers inhibtions and common sense, its deadly when it comes to abstaining from PMO. Just remember, youre only a few drinks away from a PMO fap-for-all meltdown!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on May 31, 2019, 03:48:31 AM
Sorry to hear about it, but that's a great thing to be aware of. It's not just about quitting PMO but about healing an addiction. I think we'll only really improve when we start addressing the the real reasons for our addictions.

Keep peeling back the layers and taking your life back. Relapse or not, everything you learn is progress!

Thanks, man. Thanks for your constant support.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on May 31, 2019, 03:49:54 AM
So its obvious that alcohol is the trigger for fapping. Alcohol is great, but as it lowers inhibtions and common sense, its deadly when it comes to abstaining from PMO. Just remember, youre only a few drinks away from a PMO fap-for-all meltdown!

It's clear that alcohol has been the most detrimental. Recently, I only binged because of it, while being drunk but also when I sobered up and had anxiety, because alcohol increases my anxiety. I gotta stop sabotaging myself with this.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on May 31, 2019, 04:12:12 AM
May 31

Urges: 0/10
Relapses: 0

The binge from yesterday left me drained but it's good. I have absolutely no urges and no mood to PMO which is great for now.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 31, 2019, 05:10:43 PM

Thanks, man. Thanks for your constant support.

Hey, that's what I'm here for. I've heard before that isolation and addiction run together, so I feel like building connections of support is an important way to fight this thing!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 01, 2019, 06:45:08 AM
June 1

Urges: 0/10
Relapses: 0

Pretty good mood.

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on June 01, 2019, 06:46:15 PM
That's awesome!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 02, 2019, 04:55:41 AM
June 2

Urges: 2/10
Relapses: 0

Some urges this time but nothing I couldn't handle.

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: pichaelthompson on June 02, 2019, 05:28:02 PM
Nice! I kind of start my day telling myself to expect urges throughout the day, so when it happens I feel more prepared and when they don't arise much on some lucky days I feel pleasantly surprised. Keep it up!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 02, 2019, 06:02:10 PM
Nice! I kind of start my day telling myself to expect urges throughout the day, so when it happens I feel more prepared and when they don't arise much on some lucky days I feel pleasantly surprised. Keep it up!

It's important not to be surprised by the urges. You know that urges will eventually come, maybe not today, maybe tomorrow but we cannot quit P without urges. Preparation in advance is very important. "What will I do if urges start?" That's a good question. I'm not an expert at this so I'll try to do what other people have suggested, for now. 
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on June 02, 2019, 06:04:48 PM
Yeah, that's a great point. I used to think that my recovery wasn't working if I still had urges, so I'd give up whenever they came. That's obviously not true, so it has been helpful for me think that I will experience urges. The failure isn't having them. The failure is giving in.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 02, 2019, 06:08:35 PM
Yeah, that's a great point. I used to think that my recovery wasn't working if I still had urges, so I'd give up whenever they came. That's obviously not true, so it has been helpful for me think that I will experience urges. The failure isn't having them. The failure is giving in.

That's why knowledge is so important. Like this, you find out what you could experience. Having urges doesn't mean that the recovery is not going well. It's actually the opposite. It's withdrawal. Every addiction has withdrawal. P withdrawal includes urges. After the withdrawal we will see the light.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 03, 2019, 06:12:15 AM
June 3

Urges: 2/10
Relapses: 5

Don't ask me how this was possible.

My mood and energy are bad.


Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 04, 2019, 04:56:06 AM
June 4

Urges: 0/10
Relapses: 0

I feel the same as yesterday: Low energy and bad mood.

I am going to start another job this month.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: jixu on June 04, 2019, 10:01:07 AM
Looks like you are making improvements in both your professional (new job) and personal realms.  Keep up the good work and keep the big picture in mind and don't forget that feelings come and go and aren't always a good guide.  Stay the course and best wishes to you.   
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 04, 2019, 10:34:09 AM
Looks like you are making improvements in both your professional (new job) and personal realms.  Keep up the good work and keep the big picture in mind and don't forget that feelings come and go and aren't always a good guide.  Stay the course and best wishes to you.   

Thanks, man. I try to focus on my life because focusing too much on P is thinking about P. I need to get rid of that from my mind. I'm changing my job this month, I hope it's a better job. I always try to find better jobs, not exactly in terms of salary because my number one priority is atmosphere. A job that drives me crazy can pay me 100.000 $ a month and I will still be angry and unhappy.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 04, 2019, 05:20:04 PM
Small steps still move me forward. I don't have to take big steps if I can't right now. Slow, steady progress is what I need because I've tried to bite more than I could chew in the past and it has backfired. I am aware that I couldn't go a month without P at this moment. What I need to do is reduce the damage done to my brain = Less PMOs. No binges will naturally make me PMO less. A month has 30 or 31 days (except February). If I PMO-ed once everyday, that would be 30 or 31 PMOs. No more than that. Now think about binges. I could easily exceed that. So I guess a first step would be quitting binges. And as I haven't PMO-ed everyday anymore for years and only with days in between, no binges would mean under 10 PMOs in a month! This would be outstanding! I used to do it between 20-30 times a month. Before that, it was more than 100 times. Next goal is to reduce even further and accommodate the brain with less. I will, eventually, reach 0 one day. Small steps, man. I don't need to rush it. I've trained myself to have patience and trust the plan. I have a goal and I work toward accomplishing it. One day this plan is going to change me.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on June 04, 2019, 06:29:03 PM
All progress is progress, and even small steps count. It can be frustrating that this recovery can take so much time, but it sort of makes sense. How many years have you been deep into PMO? I know I've been tied up in it for very long time, so why would I think I could untangle myself in a few weeks? It doesn't make sense.

It used to be all I could do to get through a single day without PMO. But I've been working at it for a few years now, and I'm working on going through a few months at a time without a binge. Healing takes effort and determination, but it also takes time. So just keep on going, and don't let the slow progress sometimes get you too down.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 05, 2019, 02:49:21 AM
All progress is progress, and even small steps count. It can be frustrating that this recovery can take so much time, but it sort of makes sense. How many years have you been deep into PMO? I know I've been tied up in it for very long time, so why would I think I could untangle myself in a few weeks? It doesn't make sense.

Of course, man. I don't expect to stop being addicted overnight. Fortunately, it won't really take years but a number of months I guess it's inevitable and obvious. Think about it, I think I've been PMO-ing for 15 years. It's like when you have 220 pounds. It takes time to get to 154 or whatever. That's why I like to look at it like a plan, like training for a boxing match. If I do the right things for a number of months, I will hopefully be done with it. But, the situation when I won't be done with it could happen too but I feel like I've come a long way. I know a lot more than back then so I should do better now.

Quote
It used to be all I could do to get through a single day without PMO. But I've been working at it for a few years now, and I'm working on going through a few months at a time without a binge. Healing takes effort and determination, but it also takes time. So just keep on going, and don't let the slow progress sometimes get you too down.

Man, I remember when going a day without PMO was the hardest thing ever but I've done it. The idea is we can do it, this is not impossible. Maybe it seemed more impossible back then to end a day without PMO than it seems now to end a month. Many guys make the mistake of not recognizing the progress, which it's understandable because, without knowledge, you wouldn't know. But think about it: Until my early 20's I binged everyday, so that's more than 100 PMOs in a month. Then I've reduced it to 20-30 times a month. You can't say this is not progress. It's less damage to the brain. It's like when you hit your finger with the hammer. Hitting it 100 times vs hitting it 20 times makes a big difference. We, sometimes, are not aware of the damage we do to ourselves psychologically. If it's not physical, it doesn't mean we are not wounded. But yes, it takes time and patience. After years of still not being free, it could get frustrated but we must remember that we've come a long way. We haven't been wasting the time. Sometimes it really takes years but we must not call it failure. It's not failure. It's like training judo, for example. For years you are beaten by other guys, more experienced than you. But you are not a failure, you just need time to learn. After you learn, those guys stop beating you. That's the attitude we must have with this fight. We didn't fail a few years, we trained and learned things.

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 05, 2019, 02:54:39 AM
I only slept for three hours and woke up feeling completely like shit. I struggled to keep my eyes open enough to drag myself, painfully, out of the bed.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 05, 2019, 10:49:35 AM
June 5

Urges: 0/10
Relapses: 0

Bad state of mind. Anxiety.

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on June 05, 2019, 06:05:45 PM
Hang in there. Anxiety is awful, but you're not alone in dealing with it. Do what you can and don't forget to take care of yourself.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 06, 2019, 05:34:36 AM
June 6

Urges: 1/10
Relapses: 0

I feel better than the last 3 days. I slept well. Social anxiety and general anxiety are elevated. I'm guessing it's because of P addiction because, in the past, I remember that my anxiety was reduced very much after about 2 weeks without PMO. I'll try to get there again and see if anything changes. I haven't had serious urges for 12 days. 2 binges because of alcohol and 1 because I was stupid but none of them satisfactory. 12 more days and the first month of my recovery plan will end.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 06, 2019, 01:35:15 PM
Momentary "pump up" will not work in the long run. You get overly motivated this minute and tell yourself: "I will do it this time! I will be mentally strong and push through it!" But after a period of time, you are back to the beginning. Hard victories are achieved only after following a plan that makes you be trained. You don't win the World Cup by only shouting motivational things to yourself. Hard work, dedication and trying again after loses. As much as you want to tell yourself quitting P is easy, the truth is that it's hard. If it was easy, we wouldn't be 100 guys here struggling for years. We need to take this seriously. "Yeah, but by telling yourself this, you give P too much power!" said X. Right, but the truth still stands. Quitting P is still hard, even if you think it's easy.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on June 06, 2019, 06:06:36 PM
Momentary "pump up" will not work in the long run. You get overly motivated this minute and tell yourself: "I will do it this time! I will be mentally strong and push through it!" But after a period of time, you are back to the beginning. Hard victories are achieved only after following a plan that makes you be trained. You don't win the World Cup by only shouting motivational things to yourself. Hard work, dedication and trying again after loses. As much as you want to tell yourself quitting P is easy, the truth is that it's hard. If it was easy, we wouldn't be 100 guys here struggling for years. We need to take this seriously. "Yeah, but by telling yourself this, you give P too much power!" said X. Sure, but the truth still stands, no matter how you perceive it yourself. Quitting P is still hard, even if you think it's easy.

Great thoughts. The fact is that P has power. If it didn't, none of us would be here. I think it's a healthy thing to acknowledge the power that it has. It makes us more realistic about how we have to take care of ourselves. Pretending that all we need is some motivational phrases isn't going to get us where we need to go, and it will probably just make us underestimate the problem.

I'm with you. It's going to take work, but it's good work and we can't give up.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 07, 2019, 01:44:28 AM
Great thoughts. The fact is that P has power. If it didn't, none of us would be here. I think it's a healthy thing to acknowledge the power that it has. It makes us more realistic about how we have to take care of ourselves. Pretending that all we need is some motivational phrases isn't going to get us where we need to go, and it will probably just make us underestimate the problem.

I'm with you. It's going to take work, but it's good work and we can't give up.

Exactly. P really does have power. We have to acknowledge it. By doing this, we inevitable have to make a solid plan for how to beat P. We won't defeat this by willpower only. I've tried that and I failed. I had to stop fucking around and admit I needed to follow a plan. Thinking that P has no power only makes you underestimate it and take it lightly. That's how you keep going back to the start and you don't even understand why. It's hard but it's not impossible, that's the idea.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 07, 2019, 03:47:15 AM
This is my 4th day without PMO but it's also the day when I usually relapsed so the brain knows this and it's the day when I'm susceptible to hard urges. So far I'm all right. Let's see how it is progressing.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 07, 2019, 10:15:32 AM
June 7

Urges: 1/10
Relapses: 0

My mood is good. Lower anxiety.

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on June 07, 2019, 06:20:40 PM
Way to recognize your patterns and to prepare yourself and get through the day. That's a big deal. For a long time, I wasn't really aware that I was on a regular cycle, and I usually thought I was doing better than I really was. When I started counting days, I realized that my relapses were happening at regular intervals. If you can see it coming and recognize that it's always possibly coming back, you can deal with it way more effectively.

Sending you more strength and encouragement for another day!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 08, 2019, 04:04:35 AM
Way to recognize your patterns and to prepare yourself and get through the day. That's a big deal. For a long time, I wasn't really aware that I was on a regular cycle, and I usually thought I was doing better than I really was. When I started counting days, I realized that my relapses were happening at regular intervals. If you can see it coming and recognize that it's always possibly coming back, you can deal with it way more effectively.

Sending you more strength and encouragement for another day!

Thanks, man! I've survived the day 4, when urges usually started. But I didn't have urges yesterday, however, I do today. This is the first time in 2 weeks when I have some serious urges. P flashbacks too. I gotta figure out a way to deal with the urges.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 08, 2019, 01:59:52 PM
June 8

Urges: 6/10
Relapses: 5

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 09, 2019, 06:59:31 AM
Everything is going like shit. I haven't done a good job at controlling my binges. If I hadn't binged and relapsed only once a day, I would've had about 6 PMOs until now not fucking 25! FUCK! I'm sabotaging myself like an idiot. Sometimes I get this feeling like I know everything I should do but I don't do it at all. My plan was all right but the weak link was me. The first fucking thing I need to do is stop drinking.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on June 09, 2019, 06:08:21 PM
Sorry about the lapses.

Binges are the worst. The last several relapses I've had have been long binges where I'm stuck on PMO for a day or two. And it's the sort of thing where I would be on websites and wishing that I wasn't but still doing it anyway. It's like a switch got flipped in my head and I turned into a different person who only wanted porn even though the rest of me didn't.

It would probably be helpful to go back in time and retrace the steps that lead to your binges/lapses. I think you're right on in thinking that alcohol might be related. Really think about the things (feelings, behaviors, thoughts) that come before a relapse. I know I started to be more aware of the early phases of relapse (staring more at girls around town, feeling hopeless, etc.) and that has helped me to catch myself before the switch flips, and I get trapped in a binge. It can be difficult because it means looking for behaviors that might seems harmless (I'm single, so why not stare at girls when I'm out and about, right?) but that ultimately lead to trouble.

Take care of yourself, stick with it, and do what you need to do to get back on track. We're all here for support. You can only get better at this with more practice.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: nazonoxa on June 10, 2019, 03:56:21 AM
I'm sabotaging myself like an idiot. Sometimes I get this feeling like I know everything I should do but I don't do it at all.

That's a really familiar feeling to me too.

If you struggle with self-care, the website youfeellikeshit.com might help. Guides you through some not-always-obvious steps to self-care.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 10, 2019, 08:00:37 AM
It would probably be helpful to go back in time and retrace the steps that lead to your binges/lapses. I think you're right on in thinking that alcohol might be related. Really think about the things (feelings, behaviors, thoughts) that come before a relapse.

In the last month, binges only happened because of alcohol. First time when I relapsed, I PMO-ed just once that day. So it's clear that maybe I just can't drink and stay away from PMO at the same time. It sucks when everything seems to involve alcohol these days but I have to discipline myself and stay away from those opportunities, at least for a while until I figure this out. I'm coming from two binges, two days in a row, after indulging in drinking. Also, I can't control my edging. It starts with "A little arousal won't hurt me" and it ends with "Fuck! I'm on P websites again!" Edging leaves me with a sort of feeling like "It's not enough, I want more! Where is that arousal from earlier? I want it back!" Like an uncontrollable desire for more. It's like even my usual shield against P is shattered by this fucking edging. It leaves me with some kind of "weakness" and I don't seem to stop looking for more.

Quote
(staring more at girls around town, feeling hopeless, etc.) It can be difficult because it means looking for behaviors that might seems harmless (I'm single, so why not stare at girls when I'm out and about, right?) but that ultimately lead to trouble

This affects me too. I am single as well and I can't really look at girls, even in movies, especially when I go through urges. It's like taking the first sip from the bottle and eventually drinking more and more (moving to more stimulating stuff like fantasizing, edging, searching for pictures, until you reach the sweet P, the king of kings).

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 11, 2019, 10:00:25 AM
Only 2 fucking days >:(
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 12, 2019, 12:35:17 PM
Day 3 but...

I had some urges, not the strongest, but I started M-ing to fantasizes, with the intention not to O, having this feeling like I wasn't watching P and everything would be all right. After a few minutes of this, it was not enough so I moved to Youtube, to watch some sluts and continue to M. Other few minutes and then I had this moment like: "What the fuck am I doing? What's next? Go straight to P?" I stopped and started playing a video game. I don't even know if this is a "relapse". People say that M-ing to fantasizes is a relapse too. And what about the videos I watched on Youtube? Sometimes I'm so fucking tired of all this. Why the fuck would you start M-ing if you don't have hard enough urges? I'm sabotaging myself like an idiot.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on June 12, 2019, 06:32:19 PM
First of all: you're not an idiot!

Second of all: even if you caught yourself later than you might ideally like, you still redirected yourself away from P, and that's a win.

Something I've been learning recently is that my addiction evolved as a (misguided) way to take care of myself. My binges always came when I was feeling lonely, depressed, stressed out, or stuck in life. And they always took complete control of me once they started. I guess what I'm saying is that I've started to learn not to get so mad at myself when I deal with urges/binges because they are just my mind and body's way of taking care of me. They're wrong, but they're not trying to destroy me. Instead, I need to learn to take care of myself in better ways. So, when I feel an urge, that's a sign that something is wrong, something needs my attention. Then I can think of healthier and better ways to deal with it.

Keep at it, though. Be glad that you didn't progress to P. Recognize that you did make some mistakes and learn from them. But don't be too harsh with yourself. PMO is an old habit that you aren't going to fix right away. Being too harsh with yourself (if you're anything like me) will only make you feel worse and make you more likely to turn to PMO for some escape/relief.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: nazonoxa on June 13, 2019, 07:07:32 AM
Take good care of yourself, because you are worth it :)
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 13, 2019, 08:43:45 AM
Relapse. The chaser effect is killing me. It is screaming for a binge. I feel sad, hopeless and tired. Tired because I just indulged in a mega session and I threw away most of my energy. I knew what mistake to avoid but I made it again. It's not like I don't identify the triggers and mistakes, it's that I don't avoid them after that. That's why I'm sad about it. It's like I know everything I have to do but, for some reason, I keep fucking it up. I feel like I'm in chains, unable to break free. I am very confused about whether I could actually do it or not, given the fact that I haven't been following the plan too well. It's like a force from beyond this world directs me toward the poison.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: pichaelthompson on June 13, 2019, 02:55:45 PM
About two years ago, I hit what one might call PMO rock bottom. I PMO'd about 8 times that day, when my previous high was 3. Any type of P, P-sub imaginable I flooded my brain with from the moment I woke up to the moment I fell asleep, about 16 hours. This was all during being on NoFap and having built up some pretty good streaks, one past 90 days. While I had struggles with relapsing after that too, I slowly started to deny the urges I identify, and right now I am on a triple digit streak feeling pretty good about the future. I am not writing this to say that I am a model for success, I just want to let you know that things can always be better if you make the decision to not act on these urges. Not only that, but do so in a way that you believe is best for yourself such as limiting factors such as stress, anxiety, depression as much as possible. For me, that meant a lifestyle change that allowed me to feel good while doing healthy things. I encourage you to find a strategy for dealing with urges that will make the process as easy as possible (although it will still be very hard). Find something you can commit to 100%, so something that involves a type of healthy reward. If this strategy is cared for, curated, and flexible enough adapt to life changes as well as your needs and goals, your progress will feel less stagnant and your urges will be dealt with more effectively over time.

You CAN always do it, no matter what, and that's an undeniable fact. For me it is always hard to truly believe that almost all the time because the idea of saying no to PMO through multiple times every day and through weeks, months, and eventually years seems painful to the point where I fear for my sanity. When I relapse, that feeling increases, and when I am on a good streak I feel better about it, although it's still hard to believe. But no matter how I feel, the level of truth it holds always stays the same.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 13, 2019, 04:09:41 PM
About two years ago, I hit what one might call PMO rock bottom. I PMO'd about 8 times that day, when my previous high was 3. Any type of P, P-sub imaginable I flooded my brain with from the moment I woke up to the moment I fell asleep, about 16 hours. This was all during being on NoFap and having built up some pretty good streaks, one past 90 days. While I had struggles with relapsing after that too, I slowly started to deny the urges I identify, and right now I am on a triple digit streak feeling pretty good about the future. I am not writing this to say that I am a model for success, I just want to let you know that things can always be better if you make the decision to not act on these urges. Not only that, but do so in a way that you believe is best for yourself such as limiting factors such as stress, anxiety, depression as much as possible. For me, that meant a lifestyle change that allowed me to feel good while doing healthy things. I encourage you to find a strategy for dealing with urges that will make the process as easy as possible (although it will still be very hard). Find something you can commit to 100%, so something that involves a type of healthy reward. If this strategy is cared for, curated, and flexible enough adapt to life changes as well as your needs and goals, your progress will feel less stagnant and your urges will be dealt with more effectively over time.

You CAN always do it, no matter what, and that's an undeniable fact. For me it is always hard to truly believe that almost all the time because the idea of saying no to PMO through multiple times every day and through weeks, months, and eventually years seems painful to the point where I fear for my sanity. When I relapse, that feeling increases, and when I am on a good streak I feel better about it, although it's still hard to believe. But no matter how I feel, the level of truth it holds always stays the same.

Thanks for taking the time to write this long reply.

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on June 13, 2019, 05:48:45 PM
I've been there, man. I don't know if it's helpful, but I know that it took a while for me to be able to commit to what I knew I should do. Knowing how to avoid triggers and keep yourself safe is one thing, but actually doing it is another and that might take a little more time.

It's all a process, and you just have to keep at it. Learn, commit, and follow through. I've found it's a lot easier to follow through when I'm still dealing with small triggers. It's easier to catch myself having a porn fantasy than it is to stop myself from clicking a link after googling something P related. I used to think that thoughts were harmless (they're not P after all!) but they're deadly: they always lead me to where I have no power to resist.

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 13, 2019, 06:13:53 PM
I've been there, man. I don't know if it's helpful, but I know that it took a while for me to be able to commit to what I knew I should do. Knowing how to avoid triggers and keep yourself safe is one thing, but actually doing it is another and that might take a little more time.

It's all a process, and you just have to keep at it. Learn, commit, and follow through. I've found it's a lot easier to follow through when I'm still dealing with small triggers. It's easier to catch myself having a porn fantasy than it is to stop myself from clicking a link after googling something P related. I used to think that thoughts were harmless (they're not P after all!) but they're deadly: they always lead me to where I have no power to resist.

Okay, man, thanks for writing.

It was just frustrating that I knew what to do but I didn't. It pisses me off. I'll try to find a way to implement this. It's the next stage of the plan.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Do or die on June 14, 2019, 12:08:28 AM
Keep in mind that it take longer to see major positive changes. So be adjustable in your current situation. Go out off home and adjust yourself in social conditions.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 14, 2019, 04:36:42 AM
The chaser effect is still bothering me because I didn't binge, so the fucking brain is upset that I gave it just one PMO yesterday.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 14, 2019, 07:48:28 AM
My only hope is the plan. I've been fighting this monster for years, like the hardest boss in a Silent Hill type video game. But I never really had a plan, just messing around thinking I had it, only to relapse, binge, reset my counter back to 0, feel super depressed about it, question my ability to do it, slowly get the motivation back then repeat the same loop. Without realizing, years had passed. I stopped and told myself: "Wait a minute. Where the fuck am I going with this? When did those years gone by? Like this, I will die a P addict." So I had to stop fooling myself and get serious about it. I started reading and watching everything I could, I put together a plan and I added what I'd learned about myself in those years. This time I finally had a plan and it's been the only thing that kept me from feeling depressed like that again. I felt down, of course, it's natural to feel down. It's not welcome, it sucks to feel down but at the end of the day... it's normal. But it's not good to feel super depressed, miserable and desperate. That's going too low. I've been there too much. A mind in that state is a good victim for P addiction going out of control. I relapsed, I felt down but I thought about what had gone wrong. And the next day I resumed the plan again. Now I don't feel down anymore, that was yesterday. But I do feel some increased anxiety. And considering that I didn't binge, this was a small achievement. The idea is, I have to follow the plan because only the plan will save me. Nobody does this without a plan (and I'm also talking to all of you who think, like I used to, that you can actually do it without implementing a solid plan). A good plan will eventually make me win, I feel that. I will keep improving the plan to make it even better. Even though after almost a month I'm back at day 1, the plan doesn't always go flawlessly, but it's still in action. It's a process, a long term plan. Now it might not seem that I've been doing it right but it will eventually get me there.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: pichaelthompson on June 14, 2019, 03:48:32 PM
A plan is always a good idea! Having a vision for you want to be will help you optimize your plan so it will benefit you in the most effective way. If you can see who you want your best self to be, and I mean really see- like be very specific about it, every decision you make can go towards that vision which will in turn reinforce your belief in that plan, which will alter your vision as you carry out your plan. Then the cycle of Vision -> plan -> changed vision -> changed plan can continue lol. Best of luck!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 14, 2019, 04:19:01 PM
A plan is always a good idea! Having a vision for you want to be will help you optimize your plan so it will benefit you in the most effective way. If you can see who you want your best self to be, and I mean really see- like be very specific about it, every decision you make can go towards that vision which will in turn reinforce your belief in that plan, which will alter your vision as you carry out your plan. Then the cycle of Vision -> plan -> changed vision -> changed plan can continue lol. Best of luck!

Thanks, man. I could add this to the plan to make it better.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on June 14, 2019, 05:57:23 PM
Way to go getting back to your plan. Decide what you're going to do before you actually have to make the decision.

I think it's also really important not to give up on your plan if you do happen to slip again. I always tend to give up on things after a relapse because I just figure they didn't work. More recently, though, I decided to commit to doing all the things that have helped in the past and to do them all together. I've had a lot more success fending off triggers because instead of doing one thing on-and-off, I'm doing like seven lol.

Don't worry too much about the mistakes. Learn from them, but focus on where you're going. The advice to have a vision for where you want to be is awesome.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 15, 2019, 05:37:56 AM
Way to go getting back to your plan. Decide what you're going to do before you actually have to make the decision.

I think it's also really important not to give up on your plan if you do happen to slip again. I always tend to give up on things after a relapse because I just figure they didn't work. More recently, though, I decided to commit to doing all the things that have helped in the past and to do them all together. I've had a lot more success fending off triggers because instead of doing one thing on-and-off, I'm doing like seven lol.

Don't worry too much about the mistakes. Learn from them, but focus on where you're going. The advice to have a vision for where you want to be is awesome.

Thanks, man.

It's been only a month (in 3 days) since I started this new attempt and since I've had a plan. Before than, I only messed around, with ideas in my head that I knew what to do. I read some strategies, tips, advice online but I didn't pay too much attention, I would read a few things and then think I had it. Then I saw it wasn't really like that. After years, I was pretty much going nowhere. So I had a moment like: "This is not all right. I really need to take this seriously. So, what did that guy say? Let's go back and read those things for real, this time." I put together a plan using what I read from people on this forum and what I read on YBOP, nofap and other places. Anything I could get my hands on. Some repeated themselves which showed me that they were general good stuff. I've also watched a lot of videos on Youtube. I really took it seriously this time, no more messing around. But I guess I have to find "my style", you know what I'm saying? It's like boxing. You know that what the coach teaches you works: Jab, cross, hook etc. But after you learn those, you need to find your style, if this makes sense. Without a plan, I would be going nowhere. In this month, I binged a lot. Looking at it, it might look like I've done nothing. But I feel like this a long term plan, you know, like a 6 months training camp. Sometimes you can't beat this addiction with just one month of plan. You need to keep going until it starts working. Going back to the boxing analogy, if you lost the match, it didn't mean that your boxing was useless, it meant it didn't work for you yet. You train better next time and try again to win. You know that your boxing works, it just not right now, it will in the next match. That's how I feel. The plan is good but I need some time to make it work. Right now, there are some things that I couldn't really control, like why I've repeated the same mistakes when I knew what to do. I have to figure it out. Of course, the plan can always be improved. Keep what works for you, discard what doesn't and add your personality to it. Ah, and last but not least, a vision is very important. I'm trying to picture myself without this addiction when I will have found my peace in life.

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 15, 2019, 05:39:36 AM
Day 3

I am bothered by some urges.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 15, 2019, 10:10:15 AM
So, I'm sick and tired of being their client. Anytime I see something stimulating by mistake, I close it immediately and get mad. I say: "No, no, no, you won't get me with this anymore! I'm not your client anymore! I know what you're trying to do but it won't work on me!" That's right. Fuck that! I am pissed off. I will not give them success by feeding on P and P related bullshit. I can't delete all the P and all the stimulating shit that's everywhere. I can't dry the ocean but I can choose to get out of the water. At the end of the day, it's my choice. Yes, it's hard, but we have to push through some pain. It's inevitable. But the biggest satisfaction is when you are not their slave anymore.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: pichaelthompson on June 15, 2019, 02:45:56 PM
Remember this feeling of anger. Let it sink in, and when the inevitable urges come up and the only thing you want to do is PMO, fall back onto the pissed off, tired of bullshit person that you know you are deep down. That part of you, the one looking out for your best interests long-term, will always be there, even if you don't feel it. Best of luck
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on June 15, 2019, 07:24:01 PM
One of the key components of healing is time. Even with bandages and medicine, etc. you still have to wait for a wound to heal. This isn't any different. Don't be too surprised or discouraged if your plan doesn't work out right away. It might be the right thing, but it might also just take some time to take effect.

Feeling fed up with the whole porn industry has also been a help to me. Once during a relapse, I ended up watching a documentary about the porn industry, and it was pretty depressing. It's easy to forget that they're real people too, and there really isn't any good reason for me to put someone through that life just so I can spend some time PMOing. Not to mention, it's not like the porn industry has my best interests at heart. They exploit us too, like cigarette companies before everyone new they caused cancer. It's all so awful, but it's so big that it's hard to fight. The only thing we can reasonably do right now is get out of the water, just like you said. They don't treat us right, and they don't treat their employees right. Who needs them?
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 16, 2019, 06:23:46 AM
One of the key components of healing is time. Even with bandages and medicine, etc. you still have to wait for a wound to heal. This isn't any different. Don't be too surprised or discouraged if your plan doesn't work out right away. It might be the right thing, but it might also just take some time to take effect.

That's the perfect way to look at it. Even with medicine, the wound takes time to heal.

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 16, 2019, 07:46:11 AM
The idea is clear: Pleasure doesn't last much and it's like water with salt. The more you drink, the more thirsty you get. Living for pleasure is living for dissatisfaction. Live for peace of mind. You might not know what that is so discovering that is going to be a journey in itself. I know that I haven't found my piece of mind so I'm working on this.

Now, your pleasure is P, right? You don't need that shit. Go play piano, do Kickboxing or whatever you're passionate about. Improve your career, change your career, improve your life etc. The energy that you throw away with PMO, invest it in that. It is a thousand times more important than a short pleasure. Many P addicts actually don't do too much in life. They consume all their energy with PMO. As soon as they discover that there are so many things they could do, they can choose in what to invest the energy. It's your choice: Do you want to waste your energy? It's like throwing away the gas instead of putting it in the tank of your car. The car won't start and you will be stuck there, in the middle of nowhere.

Also, the brain will always do a great job at making you feel with your entire being that the short pleasure of PMO is worth it but your mind is not your friend in this case. You have to look at it with your soul. Deep down inside you, you know it's not worth it.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on June 16, 2019, 06:41:25 PM
Awesome thoughts! You're right, there's so much more to life. When I was deep in my addiction, I thought porn was my only problem. Now that I'm working on recovery, I realize that there are so many other things for me to work on. It's weird how porn manages to block out everything else. Once we start to set it aside, we can see more clearly how much more there is to life.

Keep going strong!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 17, 2019, 04:12:35 AM
Awesome thoughts! You're right, there's so much more to life. When I was deep in my addiction, I thought porn was my only problem. Now that I'm working on recovery, I realize that there are so many other things for me to work on. It's weird how porn manages to block out everything else. Once we start to set it aside, we can see more clearly how much more there is to life.

Keep going strong!

We have, let's say, a "tank" of satisfaction and energy. We could invest it in PMO or invest it in life (improvement, career, hobbies, other problems). Invest it in PMO and it will leave you "satisfied" and tired. But what satisfaction is that? It's an artificial satisfaction that gives you nothing. You don't improve, you don't go anywhere. Every one of us P addicts know this but we need to implement it and really separate life from PMO, natural satisfaction vs artificial satisfaction, investing energy and what's useful vs throwing it away and stuff like that, you know what I'm saying? PMO fools us that we got the satisfaction, we made the dopamine reach those receptors and we are good. But why don't we feel happy though? It's clear why. Dopamine will reach those receptors if you, let's say, get a better job, but this doesn't make you feel miserable. It's really a matter of how we use this energy. I've been so invested in PMO that I hardly could do other things because of lack of natural desire for natural satisfaction and lack of energy.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 17, 2019, 04:42:24 AM
P is like a guy whom you consider you best friend, because you have a great time drinking with him, but he also bullies you. At the end of the day, you have to end this friendship. He is more detrimental than useful. Apart from the days when you drink with him, you feel hurt because of all the things he does to you. You really need to stop talking to him. He will keep coming back looking for you because you are his victim of bullying but you have to find ways to keep him at distance.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 17, 2019, 08:14:41 AM
3 PMO

Correction: 4 PMO
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on June 17, 2019, 07:22:40 PM
3 PMO

Correction: 4 PMO

Rough day. Sorry to hear about it. What triggered the lapse? It's a bummer when it happens, but don't let the lapse go to waste. Retrace your steps and see how you got there, and then take that knowledge with you moving forward
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 18, 2019, 03:02:26 AM
Rough day. Sorry to hear about it. What triggered the lapse? It's a bummer when it happens, but don't let the lapse go to waste. Retrace your steps and see how you got there, and then take that knowledge with you moving forward

How? Fucking edging, man! Edging fucked me up. But it wouldn't have been a binge without drinking.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 18, 2019, 05:30:29 AM
Today is one month since I started my new attempt (May 18 - June 18). I can't believe how fast the time passed.

I binged a lot but nothing unusual: Months without binging hadn't happen in a long time. At one point I stopped counting because I had reached my PMO quota but it must be 30+ PMOs. Maybe 40, I don't know. The reason? Drinking. I realized I kind of let myself drink too much. I don't have a problem with alcohol but still... Too much drinking. That's what happens when you get involved with people who drink a lot and often. I saw that, if I didn't drink, I could end the day without binging. If I relapsed, it would be just one PMO. So it's clear: I have to stay away from drinking because I can't control my binging when I'm drunk. For this, I have to stay away from situations where drinking happens. Think about it, without binging, I would've had less than 10 PMOs. This is what I will try to do for this next month. I either stay away from PMO for good or I PMO less than 10 times. That's my goal. For this, I have to avoid binging and if alcohol brings binges, fuck it. I'm done with it. Starting tomorrow I will continue my statistics.

Coming back to what I said at the beginning, time really goes away fast and if we don't take care of ourselves, if we don't quit our addictions, if we don't improve or get the life we want, we will wake up one day and we will be 60 years old. Or we will wake up and we will be ghosts, flying around the room while the body will be lying in the bed (a.k.a we will be fucking dead - life over, bye bye. No more chances to do anything in this life). Life is too short to live it in a terrible way. Life is too short to waste time. Life is too short not to do what you need to do.

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 18, 2019, 05:33:25 AM
And I really need to quit edging, man! Edging sends me to PMO because it consumes my "pleasure tank" and it leaves me empty and desperate for more pleasure. It makes me more desperate for pleasure than when I have urges but I don't edge.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 19, 2019, 06:33:08 AM
Day 2

Things that I need to do:

1) Use Internet only when I need it and visit only the necessary pages;
2) Don't drink;
3) Don't edge;
4) Find a way to deal with urges;



Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on June 19, 2019, 04:58:05 PM
Day 2

Things that I need to do:

1) Use Internet only when I need it and visit only the necessary pages;
2) Don't drink;
3) Don't edge;
4) Find a way to deal with urges;





That's a great plan. Edging is total garbage: I always use to think it didn't count, like as long as I didn't straight up MO it was okay. I don't think there's any way to edge without relapsing, and it's especially bad because it's easy to rationalize edging. It was one of those things that I thought was harmless but is actually really dangerous, so I worked to cut it out.

And learning to deal with urges is huge. Even more than that, it might be helpful to think about dealing with whatever is causing the urges. Like I always feel urges the worst when a potential relationship doesn't work out, for example. So it's important to deal with the urges, but it's also important to find ways to deal with the feelings of still being single (since that's what causes the urges) in healthier ways. I think we can always dig deeper: PMO is just a symptom of some other problem in our lives.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 20, 2019, 05:00:05 AM
That's a great plan. Edging is total garbage: I always use to think it didn't count, like as long as I didn't straight up MO it was okay. I don't think there's any way to edge without relapsing, and it's especially bad because it's easy to rationalize edging. It was one of those things that I thought was harmless but is actually really dangerous, so I worked to cut it out.

In my case, I'm susceptible to edging when I have urges and my brain convinces me that a little edging will be all right. It's like: "You don't want to straight out PMO? Do some edging. It's harmless and you give me a little bit of drug too." I edge to P flashbacks and fantasies (not by watching P cause this is what we have to avoid like the plague) but I've read that even doing that is bad. However, I can't seem to stop that. It's like: "Edging to P flashbacks and fantasies is less dangerous than edging and watching P." It's that voice in my ear that does a good job at convincing me I have to do that. And after I edge for a few minutes like that, it drains my "urges tank" and it leaves me craving P like crazy. I'm actually out of control more when I edge than when I just have urges but I do nothing. P flashbacks are not as strong as watching P so I start watching P and from there I end up with a full relapse, of course.

P.S: What I call "edging" is M without O. I don't know what definition you have but that's what I'm talking about.

Quote
And learning to deal with urges is huge. Even more than that, it might be helpful to think about dealing with whatever is causing the urges. Like I always feel urges the worst when a potential relationship doesn't work out, for example. So it's important to deal with the urges, but it's also important to find ways to deal with the feelings of still being single (since that's what causes the urges) in healthier ways. I think we can always dig deeper: PMO is just a symptom of some other problem in our lives.

Do you know what problem I have? I got into a routine of relapsing after 4 or 5 days since the last one. And when the 4th day comes, sometimes on 5th day, I start having hard urges and I sabotage myself with "a little edging". That's what I said in some early entries: I actually know what I have to do but, for some reason, I don't seem to make it work.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 20, 2019, 05:04:56 AM
Day 3

My mood is so-so, my energy too.

I need to find a way to break free from that circle of relapsing every 4-5 days. I need to get past the first week.

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 20, 2019, 02:27:13 PM
I'm bothered by some urges.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on June 20, 2019, 05:24:08 PM

P.S: What I call "edging" is M without O. I don't know what definition you have but that's what I'm talking about.

Do you know what problem I have? I got into a routine of relapsing after 4 or 5 days since the last one. And when the 4th day comes, sometimes on 5th day, I start having hard urges and I sabotage myself with "a little edging". That's what I said in some early entries: I actually know what I have to do but, for some reason, I don't seem to make it work.

Yep, that's my definition too. I used to think that it didn't count without O, but you and I know both know that it causes trouble either way.

But you're on to something important. If you recognize a pattern in your relapses, you can sort of plan for them and deal with them better. I was on a schedule of relapsing every 20-30 days. Without keeping track, I thought I was doing a lot better than I was. When I realized that my relapses were happening almost on schedule, it helped me to realize that getting through the first 20 days was no big deal and that the real work would happen after that. It also helped because I didn't think the sudden urges around 30 days meant that my recovery was off track: I knew it was going to happen, so I could deal with it better than before I recognized the pattern.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 21, 2019, 09:32:47 AM
I relapsed. I edged like crazy, uncontrollably, for hours, watching a tone of P. I am dealing with a lot of anxiety right now.  :(
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on June 21, 2019, 06:54:55 PM
So sorry to hear it!

That sounds exactly like the kind of binges I've had most recently. Hours and hours of porn and edging, wanting to stop and also being unable to. It's the worst, and it can leave you feeling pretty awful. For me, it always happened at night, so I always ended up not sleeping, and it messed me up for the whole next day.

It also sounds like this was right around your 4-5 day pattern, so it isn't exactly a surprise that it happened. What led you to the porn and edging? What were the triggers? For me, it was usually something "harmless" like instagram. It can sometimes feel like the porn just came out of nowhere, but it never comes out of nowhere. Don't let this relapse go to waste, go back to what caused it and cut it out.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: pichaelthompson on June 21, 2019, 10:02:51 PM
I can relate to this, and I hate to say it but doing this will only make your anxiety worse in the long run. I suggest find a way to separate yourself from the feeling of anxiety, of course it is impossible to never feel anxious (I have dealt with it a TON) but it is possible to see it as a passing, temporary emotion that does not control your actions. Something that is not a part of you, but rather 1 in an infinite pool of feelings every human on this planet experiences.

In a bigger picture view, I would recommend finding what exactly causes you anxiety, and suggest experimenting with different ways to deal with it. Don't be down on yourself if something doesn't work, just take a deep breath and try again. Best of luck to you, wishing you well.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 22, 2019, 04:59:58 AM
So sorry to hear it!

That sounds exactly like the kind of binges I've had most recently. Hours and hours of porn and edging, wanting to stop and also being unable to. It's the worst, and it can leave you feeling pretty awful. For me, it always happened at night, so I always ended up not sleeping, and it messed me up for the whole next day.

It also sounds like this was right around your 4-5 day pattern, so it isn't exactly a surprise that it happened. What led you to the porn and edging? What were the triggers? For me, it was usually something "harmless" like instagram. It can sometimes feel like the porn just came out of nowhere, but it never comes out of nowhere. Don't let this relapse go to waste, go back to what caused it and cut it out.

I've said this 1000 times already around here but what pisses me off is that I know what I have to do but, for some reason, I end up not doing it and I relapse.  >:(

And yes, it was on the 4th day, following the schedule to a T. It's like a switch flips in my brain and I start having hard urges that I don't have on day 3. It's like the 3rd day is not the day so the urges are low then the 4th day is the day and the urges shoot through the roof.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 22, 2019, 05:02:18 AM
I can relate to this, and I hate to say it but doing this will only make your anxiety worse in the long run. I suggest find a way to separate yourself from the feeling of anxiety, of course it is impossible to never feel anxious (I have dealt with it a TON) but it is possible to see it as a passing, temporary emotion that does not control your actions. Something that is not a part of you, but rather 1 in an infinite pool of feelings every human on this planet experiences.

In a bigger picture view, I would recommend finding what exactly causes you anxiety, and suggest experimenting with different ways to deal with it. Don't be down on yourself if something doesn't work, just take a deep breath and try again. Best of luck to you, wishing you well.

Ah, okay, I know what you mean. I guess my sentences could also be interpreted like: "I'm dealing with a lot of anxiety right now so that's why I relapsed." But no, I am pretty sure my P use increases my anxiety because I see it happening. I edged yesterday for hours, watching a tone of P then I PMO-ed 4 times and a lot of anxiety followed. This is maybe the no. 1 thing that I hate about my addiction. It seems to increase my anxiety like crazy.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on June 22, 2019, 06:44:05 PM

And yes, it was on the 4th day, following the schedule to a T. It's like a switch flips in my brain and I start having hard urges that I don't have on day 3. It's like the 3rd day is not the day so the urges are low then the 4th day is the day and the urges shoot through the roof.

I know exactly the feeling of having that switch flip. I think this is why it's so important to retrace your steps to the earliest phases of the relapse. If we only focus on the moment of looking up porn as a relapse, we're missing the real triggers and only working on a level where we've already lost control.

I think one of the things that would really help would be going further back: what were you thinking about in the few days before you relapsed? What were you feeling like? What were you doing?

For me, the switch flips before I start looking up porn. By the time I'm on the internet looking for porn, I've already lost control no matter much I know I shouldn't do it. But, when I started looking back further in the relapse, I realized that for days before "actually relapsing," I was fantasizing about porn, staring at women in sexual ways, and looking for non-pornographic stimulation on TV and YouTube and stuff. There are always little things that I ignore that are actually the real triggers for a relapse.

It took me a long time to start to see things like sexual thoughts as triggers. I used to think they were harmless, as long as I didn't use the internet to look at porn. But I never PMOd without allowing myself to have lots of sexual thoughts in the days before. And here's the thing: I'm still in control when it's just thoughts. I can still unflip that switch. If I wait to stop myself until I'm in a full-blown relapse, I'm already done for.

One of the biggest breakthroughs for me recently has been to realize that my relapses start way earlier than I thought they did. Lately, I've been focused on keeping my thoughts above board and not fantasizing. Sometimes, I catch myself looking at women just for the little hit of dopamine, but I'm catching myself and redirecting my thoughts. And I think it's working better because I'm catching myself at a point where I'm still in control.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 23, 2019, 04:18:50 AM
I know what you mean. It's the truth. Let's see how I could do something about it earlier.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 23, 2019, 12:12:06 PM
I relapsed. I edged again watching P for hours.  :(
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 23, 2019, 02:04:30 PM
FUCK
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on June 23, 2019, 06:16:46 PM
Sorry man.

Sometimes, for me, a relapse happens over a couple of days, maybe with a day or two in between. Maybe those are two separate relapses, but I always see it as the same relapse. Still a problem, but it could be that whatever happened the other day is still working its way through your system.

What happened between your first post today and the lapse? I hate to be the annoying guy who just makes you retrace your steps, but I think it's really important, and this is a safe place to write it out. If you don't feel comfortable doing that here, write it down somewhere: what happens, step by step, before you relapse? Does the edging come first or the porn? Do they happen at the same time? What are you thinking about? Feeling?

It's a lot of questions, and it can take a lot of work and some difficult self-honesty. But there's actually more to it than just catching yourself sooner. The thing is, porn isn't really the problem: it's our addicted brain's attempt at a solution. Retracing your steps and being really honest about why you relapsed may teach you something about the underlying issues that you're using porn to cope with. For me, a lot of my relapses happen when I'm feeling bad about being single. Porn gives me a fake kind of access to women and the pleasure of PMO makes me forget the feelings of loneliness. Knowing that has helped me to work more deliberately on coming to terms with being single for the time being without having to self-medicate with porn. I'm still single, but I don't feel as terrible about it as I used to, so I don't need porn as much to deal with it. I never would have learned that if I had only focused on porn as the problem and not as a symptom of some larger problem(s).
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 24, 2019, 04:05:36 AM
Sometimes, for me, a relapse happens over a couple of days, maybe with a day or two in between. Maybe those are two separate relapses, but I always see it as the same relapse. Still a problem, but it could be that whatever happened the other day is still working its way through your system.

I had some sort of chaser effect or something, like someone had injected me with craving for stimulation. It wasn't even the P, it was a thirst for edging. It's like edging is what my brains wants. It's like that experiment with the monkey that I read in a book. They came to the conclusion that the "anticipation" released more dopamine than the pleasure itself. After I read that, everything made complete sense. Edging is the anticipation for a "great O" that never comes. Edging feels better than the O. I started edging to fantasies then I moved to P, watched P for hours and edged uncontrollably. It was clear I had to stop but I couldn't. I couldn't talk myself out of it, I couldn't move myself from the chair in front of computer.

Quote
What happened between your first post today and the lapse? I hate to be the annoying guy who just makes you retrace your steps, but I think it's really important, and this is a safe place to write it out. If you don't feel comfortable doing that here, write it down somewhere: what happens, step by step, before you relapse? Does the edging come first or the porn? Do they happen at the same time? What are you thinking about? Feeling?

Like I said above, I start edging first to fantasies and then I move to P because those fantasies are not that strong anymore after a few minutes. I start craving more stimulation from P. The more I edge, the more craving I get, like eating sugar. After a while that "tank" with arousal is exhausted so I'm supposed to stop, right? I can't. It's like, with this "tank" my little "shield" that I have is shattered too. This shield, sometimes, protects me from PMO-ing or edging when I have urges but it's like after I stimulate myself for a while, this shield is gone, I don't have urges anymore but I have a craving for more and I can't control it anymore. I continue to edge over and over again for hours until I O, a weak O that doesn't do shit.

What makes me want to edge? I guess urges. I've said in another post that I have a routine of relapsing after 4-5 days. When I reach the day, I have hard urges. That's why I've said it pissed me off: I've fallen for the same trap when I knew about it and I shouldn't. It starts with that fucking voice in my ear (from the addicted brain): "You have hard urges, imagine how edging will feel now. Hmmmmmm! So what are you waiting for?" And if I say "no", it tells me: "Okay, just a little edging won't kill you. One minute." And now I'm supposed to see the trap and move away but I don't. I actually give this fucking minute to the brain and then everything starts and I can't control it. Maybe it starts from the beginning, when I don't know what to do about urges.

Quote
It's a lot of questions, and it can take a lot of work and some difficult self-honesty. But there's actually more to it than just catching yourself sooner. The thing is, porn isn't really the problem: it's our addicted brain's attempt at a solution. Retracing your steps and being really honest about why you relapsed may teach you something about the underlying issues that you're using porn to cope with. For me, a lot of my relapses happen when I'm feeling bad about being single. Porn gives me a fake kind of access to women and the pleasure of PMO makes me forget the feelings of loneliness. Knowing that has helped me to work more deliberately on coming to terms with being single for the time being without having to self-medicate with porn. I'm still single, but I don't feel as terrible about it as I used to, so I don't need porn as much to deal with it. I never would have learned that if I had only focused on porn as the problem and not as a symptom of some larger problem(s).

Yeah, I know how this feels cause I'm single too and I also used PMO like: "I'm single, man, what do you want me to do? How am I supposed to satisfy my sexual needs?" But they were not sexual needs, it was P withdrawal. All right, maybe this is a problem too. Maybe somewhere deep down inside this plays a part too.


Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 24, 2019, 07:52:04 AM
Day 1

This last binge fucked me up. My mood is shit, my energy is shit and I am dealing with a tone of general and social anxiety. How the fuck am I getting out of this?  :(
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 25, 2019, 04:39:29 AM
Day 2

I struggled to fall asleep and I didn't sleep too much. I woke up tired. I have less anxiety than yesterday.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: jixu on June 25, 2019, 11:29:11 AM
As some time has now passed since the event, I would like to commend you for your most excellent post of June 23, 2019, 02:04:30.  Succinct yet comprehensive, I think that post captured the whole essence of what is going on here in this battle.  You spoke for everybody.

I also look forward to the not too distant time when an even shorter post, YES, will emerge from your journal. Keep fighting-you are going to make it.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 25, 2019, 02:17:36 PM
As some time has now passed since the event, I would like to commend you for your most excellent post of June 23, 2019, 02:04:30.  Succinct yet comprehensive, I think that post captured the whole essence of what is going on here in this battle.  You spoke for everybody.

I also look forward to the not too distant time when an even shorter post, YES, will emerge from your journal. Keep fighting-you are going to make it.

Thanks, man! I appreciate the support and taking the time to visit my page. I am too looking forward for the day when I could finally said I am done with it and I could post in the success stories. This fight is hard but, when you don't fight, you lose 100%. When you fight, you have chances of winning. Sometimes it looks like I can't do this, sometimes it looks like I can but I can't give up. I've done that in the past. I had periods of time when I just "let myself go" and binged on PMO. I can't do that anymore. You need a "training program" to follow until you are prepared to fight and win against this poison. Good luck.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on June 25, 2019, 05:45:25 PM

I had some sort of chaser effect or something, like someone had injected me with craving for stimulation. It wasn't even the P, it was a thirst for edging. It's like edging is what my brains wants. It's like that experiment with the monkey that I read in a book. They came to the conclusion that the "anticipation" released more dopamine than the pleasure itself. After I read that, everything made complete sense. Edging is the anticipation for a "great O" that never comes. Edging feels better than the O. I started edging to fantasies then I moved to P, watched P for hours and edged uncontrollably. It was clear I had to stop but I couldn't. I couldn't talk myself out of it, I couldn't move myself from the chair in front of computer.


Man, I have been there more times than I want to count. Hours and hours of P and edging. I would make deals with myself at 9:00 at night, just until 9:30. Then before I knew it it would be 5 in the morning, and I'd say, okay, just until 5:30. And I would just wonder how I had lost the whole night, and I would feel awful (and tired) for the whole days, actually for days. It really is a nightmare, and I'm sorry you're dealing with it too.


Like I said above, I start edging first to fantasies and then I move to P because those fantasies are not that strong anymore after a few minutes. I start craving more stimulation from P. The more I edge, the more craving I get, like eating sugar. After a while that "tank" with arousal is exhausted so I'm supposed to stop, right? I can't. It's like, with this "tank" my little "shield" that I have is shattered too. This shield, sometimes, protects me from PMO-ing or edging when I have urges but it's like after I stimulate myself for a while, this shield is gone, I don't have urges anymore but I have a craving for more and I can't control it anymore. I continue to edge over and over again for hours until I O, a weak O that doesn't do shit.

What makes me want to edge? I guess urges. I've said in another post that I have a routine of relapsing after 4-5 days. When I reach the day, I have hard urges. That's why I've said it pissed me off: I've fallen for the same trap when I knew about it and I shouldn't. It starts with that fucking voice in my ear (from the addicted brain): "You have hard urges, imagine how edging will feel now. Hmmmmmm! So what are you waiting for?" And if I say "no", it tells me: "Okay, just a little edging won't kill you. One minute." And now I'm supposed to see the trap and move away but I don't. I actually give this fucking minute to the brain and then everything starts and I can't control it. Maybe it starts from the beginning, when I don't know what to do about urges.



I feel this too. The urges get strong, and I think edging isn't MO, so it must be fine. And then I get stuck. This year, I've been realizing that "harmless" things really aren't. You know, it's like I was always cutting deals with myself: no P, but sexy swimsuit pictures are okay. No M, but edging is fine. Those are not good deals. Maybe the women in bikinis aren't nude,  but I'm using the pictures in the same way, for the same dopamine fix (but also with the thrill of delayed gratification, I guess, like those monkeys). Actually internalizing the fact that edging is not a safe substitute for MO has been a hard thing to do, but it has also made a huge difference for me.

Also, I was listening to a talk or a meditation or something that said that urges are our brain's way of taking care of us. Our brain isn't trying to ruin our lives, but it has learned that the rush of PMO eases the pain of stress/sadness/etc. When I realized that the urges were my brain's way of trying to help me deal with pain, it helped me to take a different attitude toward my urges. Instead of tightening my fists and shouting "NO" until I relapsed, I started saying things like "Thanks for the idea, but I'm going to deal with this issue in another way." Addictions are a response to cope with trauma, and my job has been to identify the emotional pain that I experience and to address it in better ways.

Urges are powerful and relentless. After almost a decade of trying to quit, I have only recently managed to get through the urges without relapsing. It was never something I could do because they always seemed too strong and too much like I needed to give in so they would go away. Learning from experience that I actually could wait them out and redirect that energy has been a huge game changer in the last few months.


Yeah, I know how this feels cause I'm single too and I also used PMO like: "I'm single, man, what do you want me to do? How am I supposed to satisfy my sexual needs?" But they were not sexual needs, it was P withdrawal. All right, maybe this is a problem too. Maybe somewhere deep down inside this plays a part too.



Yeah, this recovery process has really forced me to dig deep and figure out what's actually bothering me. PMO is my brain's attempt to help me feel less bad about being single, less bad about feeling hopeless about the future. PMO isn't the real problem, just the most visible symptom. It takes work, and it can be scary,  but I think getting to that deep-inside level to find out why we keep turning to porn is really important.

Cheering you on! (and sorry to write a novel lol!)
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 26, 2019, 04:21:12 AM
I feel this too. The urges get strong, and I think edging isn't MO, so it must be fine. And then I get stuck. This year, I've been realizing that "harmless" things really aren't. You know, it's like I was always cutting deals with myself: no P, but sexy swimsuit pictures are okay. No M, but edging is fine. Those are not good deals. Maybe the women in bikinis aren't nude,  but I'm using the pictures in the same way, for the same dopamine fix (but also with the thrill of delayed gratification, I guess, like those monkeys). Actually internalizing the fact that edging is not a safe substitute for MO has been a hard thing to do, but it has also made a huge difference for me.

Some time ago I used to think like that too. I said that edging to fantasies and flashbacks were safe because I didn't O and I didn't watch P. But it was, of course, my brain's tricks to make me give it stimulation. "You don't watch P? Then do something. Okay, so you think edging to flashbacks and fantasies is all right, good, then do this and give me some fix." Back then, looking at those pictures was considered safe by me as well. "It's not P. As long as someone is not naked, I'm fine." Then I read that all those were not actually safe and then I felt that "panic" that came with now having no excuses for stimulation. "No pictures, no edging to flashbacks, no edging to fantasies, actually no edging at all, obviously no P then what the fuck am I gonna do?" Of course that question shouldn't have even happened but you know how it is: We know we should stay away from all that bullshit but there is a part of us that doesn't. And if we don't make up our mind for good to want 100% to quit, that part will always be inside and will "panic" and feel "sad" at the thought of no P and P related stimulation.

Now, knowing all this, another question should be: "All right, you know that you shouldn't edge and that you shouldn't look at pictures so why the fuck do you keep doing this?" That's a good question. I know what to do but I don't understand why I don't implement it right. My relapses start with "a little edging" and I am completely aware I shouldn't do that.

Quote
Also, I was listening to a talk or a meditation or something that said that urges are our brain's way of taking care of us. Our brain isn't trying to ruin our lives, but it has learned that the rush of PMO eases the pain of stress/sadness/etc. When I realized that the urges were my brain's way of trying to help me deal with pain, it helped me to take a different attitude toward my urges. Instead of tightening my fists and shouting "NO" until I relapsed, I started saying things like "Thanks for the idea, but I'm going to deal with this issue in another way." Addictions are a response to cope with trauma, and my job has been to identify the emotional pain that I experience and to address it in better ways.

That's an interesting way to look at it. I'll think about it.

Quote
Urges are powerful and relentless. After almost a decade of trying to quit, I have only recently managed to get through the urges without relapsing. It was never something I could do because they always seemed too strong and too much like I needed to give in so they would go away. Learning from experience that I actually could wait them out and redirect that energy has been a huge game changer in the last few months.

Yeah, man, I know this too. I've relapsed like that a tone. It's been maybe 5-6 years for me too. I know how this works. When hard urges hit me, I would say: "I'll give up now and try next time, maybe next time I will feel different, maybe I will be stronger." Always postponing the responsibility to fight with this. Always running away from the pain. Only to see that it was never easier, the same hard urges, the same withdrawal came every time, with every attempt. It won't be different next time, the truth is we have to go through the pain if we want to be saved. That's why only a handful of people actually quit P for good. A lot of people move in a circle decade after decade. It scares me to even think that it could be me, that I could be 50 and still here writing "Day 1". Sometimes this thought comes into my head, I can't deny that. Sometimes I feel like I know what I have to do and that I will beat this but then I would question the same thing when I see that I still relapse.

Quote
Cheering you on! (and sorry to write a novel lol!)

No, man, you can't say sorry when you try to help me. You can write how much you want. Thanks for the constant support.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 26, 2019, 04:27:54 AM
Day 3

Feeling like shit. My mood is shit, my energy is shit, everything is shit. I am in a bad mood, worse than yesterday. I woke up earlier than I should've because of some bullshit.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 26, 2019, 10:39:25 AM
Sleep influences how I feel during the day. When I don't sleep enough, I have more anxiety and more obsessive thoughts. I am pretty stressed out about my job, maybe that's why I can't sleep well.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on June 26, 2019, 05:13:05 PM
No, man, you can't say sorry when you try to help me. You can write how much you want. Thanks for the constant support.

No problem! I'm happy it's supportive, and I appreciate your support too!

That's no good that you're still feeling bad. Stress at work could definitely have something to do with your sleep and your relapse. I know I always relapse more when I'm tired.

I know just getting more sleep or dealing with work stress are easier said than done, but even finding small things to help take the edge off can make a big difference. I've been working harder to stay away from screens in the last hour or two before going to bed and just reading a book instead. It has really helped me to go to bed without having so many racing thoughts. It doesn't always work, but it does help. Finding some routine to set stress aside and just settle into a quiet night might be helpful.

Hang in there, man! Better days are coming!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 27, 2019, 04:13:02 AM
No problem! I'm happy it's supportive, and I appreciate your support too!

That's no good that you're still feeling bad. Stress at work could definitely have something to do with your sleep and your relapse. I know I always relapse more when I'm tired.

I know just getting more sleep or dealing with work stress are easier said than done, but even finding small things to help take the edge off can make a big difference. I've been working harder to stay away from screens in the last hour or two before going to bed and just reading a book instead. It has really helped me to go to bed without having so many racing thoughts. It doesn't always work, but it does help. Finding some routine to set stress aside and just settle into a quiet night might be helpful.

Hang in there, man! Better days are coming!

Thanks, man.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 27, 2019, 04:14:02 AM
Day 4

Danger day. The day when I usually relapse. But I don't have urges so far which is rare. Nevertheless, I welcome this. My mood is a little better than yesterday and I am better rested.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 27, 2019, 07:23:01 AM
It's been some time since I last had a good streak away from PMO but I remember the benefits as if it was yesterday. I have to keep in mind that I want to get there again. It's annoying how the battle between "A better well-being" vs "A temporary pleasure that eventually destroys" is won unanimously by the latter. This fucking brain loves pleasure more than my well-being. It's only when I look from outside (as if I separated my soul from my mind) that I could make the difference between the two but then the struggle starts. How long am I going to choose destructive fake pleasure and live my life feeling like shit, dealing with anxiety, low energy, depression, obsessive thoughts and so on? I know that all those are because of P. It's a matter of life and death here because feeling like a wreck is synonymous with being dead. What is a wreck? A broken ship, on the bottom of the ocean, that doesn't fulfill its duty anymore, that doesn't have a "life" anymore.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 27, 2019, 02:37:19 PM
I've survived the 4th day, the day when I've relapsed too many times. The "switch" in my brain flipped, obviously, and, although the day started without urges, they manifested later. I started having P flashbacks and thinking about fantasies, I started thinking about the pleasure but then I caught myself and said: "What the fuck are you doing?" I began visualizing my goal and I felt like I could tip the balance a little bit toward the best option (choosing well-being and not the short fake pleasure). Tomorrow I might be going through the same things because the 5th day is also a danger day. It was like this: If I didn't relapse on day 4, I did it on day 5. Both days are crucial right now.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on June 27, 2019, 05:54:31 PM
Way to be, man! Telling those urges to back off and getting through day 4 is huge!

Good to be cautious about tomorrow, too. Even better, you made it through today, so you just need to apply the same thinking to one more day to get through day 5.

I know it always gets hardest for me in the few days before and after reaching a goal. It's like my addiction knows it's about to lose another battle so it ramps up the attack to try to get me to fall. Setting smaller goals has really helped me to get through strong urges. For me, at least, there's something that's really psychologically helpful about only having to get to 30 days instead of 90. When my goal was 100 days, I failed pretty quick. Once I got a couple 30-day streaks under my belt, though, 100 days was way more achievable. (And for me, I was relapsing pretty much exactly every 30 days, so it was a goal that made sense).

All this to say, forget about 90 days or 100 days or even a week without PMO. Just focus on getting through day 5: you can put up with anything for a day. Then, and only then, can you start thinking about day 6.

You've got it man! We're all in this one with you!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 28, 2019, 04:22:31 AM
Way to be, man! Telling those urges to back off and getting through day 4 is huge!

Good to be cautious about tomorrow, too. Even better, you made it through today, so you just need to apply the same thinking to one more day to get through day 5.

I know it always gets hardest for me in the few days before and after reaching a goal. It's like my addiction knows it's about to lose another battle so it ramps up the attack to try to get me to fall. Setting smaller goals has really helped me to get through strong urges. For me, at least, there's something that's really psychologically helpful about only having to get to 30 days instead of 90. When my goal was 100 days, I failed pretty quick. Once I got a couple 30-day streaks under my belt, though, 100 days was way more achievable. (And for me, I was relapsing pretty much exactly every 30 days, so it was a goal that made sense).

All this to say, forget about 90 days or 100 days or even a week without PMO. Just focus on getting through day 5: you can put up with anything for a day. Then, and only then, can you start thinking about day 6.

You've got it man! We're all in this one with you!

Yeah, man, I know exactly what you're talking about. To be honest, it has never worked for me when I said "Let's go for X days without PMO." It becomes such a scary project. I start obsessing about how long it takes. I think it would work better if I said: "Let's not relapse today. Let's do what we know we should do and go past the urges." A day without PMO seems an easier goal than 90 days, 100 days or whatever. Even a week seems scary. Even if I have almost a week, I don't want to set goals in terms of days. I want to set goals in terms of not relapsing today and in doing the right things everyday. I guess a good goal would be something like: "I want to reach the point when I could deal with urges, cravings and thoughts and move on every time." If this makes sense.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 28, 2019, 04:43:51 AM
Day 5

I woke up to hard urges. My hand moved automatically and I realized I had grabbed my dick and started to jerk it a little bit. I stopped and started thinking about why I wanted to be an addict no more. I said the benefits in my mind as if writing them down on a paper.

"Do you remember that time when you had two week without PMO? You had energy and your anxiety was so low. Don't you want to get there again? Do you like the lack of energy and high anxiety?"

So I got up and started doing other things. The urges remind me of the pleasure but I don't want this kind of pleasure anymore. I just need a little bit of strength to jump past the desire.   
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 28, 2019, 07:29:47 AM
I edged to fantasies for about 10 minutes then I moved to P where I watched for other few minutes and continued to edge, unable to stop myself, as if I was in a trance. But then the urges went completely down and I thought: "I will not have a good O with this level of urges." I stopped everything and then I snapped out of the trance and realized: "What the fuck am I doing? Again? I'm doing the same fucking thing! If I continue like this I will fully relapse after frying myself with edging for hours!"

Man, it pissed me off like crazy. It pisses me off how I sabotage myself like that. The same fucking routine, the same fucking circle.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 28, 2019, 09:03:21 AM
I will fight to end the day with just that slip. I don't want a full relapse.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Non-Dual Adventurer on June 28, 2019, 12:49:08 PM
Hey Lero,

I've been reading through your journal a bit. I have a similar routine when it comes to relapsing every 4-5 days. I just wanna say that we're all behind you and I'd just like to offer my support on your journey.

What @BlueHeronFan said a few posts back about the brain just wanting pleasure and to look at the urges and just gently say 'no, I think I'll deal with this another way' is a much better way than to get stressed when urges come, and it got me thinking. It seems a kind of an oxymoron, because urges by their very nature mean that you're in a state of stress. It's not nice to feel something you don't want to, but in what he said there, it reminded me of peaceful non-resistance. Think about it, most of the greatest and most influential individuals who have left a lasting positive imprint on humanity have been those who have utilised peaceful non-resistance in their protest whilst they were being persecuted. It was a tough road for them but they eventually won.
I recently saw the movie about Mahatma Gandhi and his life, which was really inspiring. It was so crazy how he gained independence for India through peaceful means and not through violence, even though he could have just as easily taken up arms at any time and people would have 100% followed him. But he knew that violence was all the British knew, and they were experts at it, so he knew he had to use a different tactic that was alien to them. And what he managed to do was leave a lasting legacy for other people to follow his example and as a result, he left the world a better place then how he found it.

It may sound a bit silly that I'm talking about Gandhi on my first post on your journal :P , but I really feel that a similar approach can be applied to our urges. The urge for P is the persecutor of the innocent, and all attempts to overcome it through willpower alone seem to prove futile. P just always seem to be able to gather a bigger army and more a deadly arsenal.
So, we learn from experience that it doesn't work to declare outright war on P and resist with strong willpower and clenched fists. There has to be some kind of balance between remaining a warrior and not giving in to an urge, and staying peaceful and balanced in our fight. After all, we are warriors of love and peace. Is that not the kind of life we'd ultimately like to lead? Do we not wish to help others and have a positive impact on people's lives? It makes perfect sense, in my opinion, to start as we wish to go on.

Sure, it's easier said than done to be a peaceful warrior, but I truly believe we all have the potential in us to overcome the se urges, and overcome the urge to fight them with a violent mind. We can fight the urges with peaceful non-resistance, whilst remaining steadfast in our resolve, and it will lead to victory.

We know that we have to overcome P because it is the right thing to do, and so we are resolved to overcome it. This already makes us great. It may be a bumpy road, but we have to realise that we have already come a long way and that there is no turning back. We are all in this together. So let's fuckin' do this thang!

IT IS YOUR DESTINY TO BE FREE. DON'T LET YOUR DOPAMINE-STARVED BRAIN TELL YOU DIFFERENTLY!

YOU CAN DO THIS.

- Adventurer
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 28, 2019, 02:12:40 PM
Hey Lero,

I've been reading through your journal a bit. I have a similar routine when it comes to relapsing every 4-5 days. I just wanna say that we're all behind you and I'd just like to offer my support on your journey.

What @BlueHeronFan said a few posts back about the brain just wanting pleasure and to look at the urges and just gently say 'no, I think I'll deal with this another way' is a much better way than to get stressed when urges come, and it got me thinking. It seems a kind of an oxymoron, because urges by their very nature mean that you're in a state of stress. It's not nice to feel something you don't want to, but in what he said there, it reminded me of peaceful non-resistance. Think about it, most of the greatest and most influential individuals who have left a lasting positive imprint on humanity have been those who have utilised peaceful non-resistance in their protest whilst they were being persecuted. It was a tough road for them but they eventually won.
I recently saw the movie about Mahatma Gandhi and his life, which was really inspiring. It was so crazy how he gained independence for India through peaceful means and not through violence, even though he could have just as easily taken up arms at any time and people would have 100% followed him. But he knew that violence was all the British knew, and they were experts at it, so he knew he had to use a different tactic that was alien to them. And what he managed to do was leave a lasting legacy for other people to follow his example and as a result, he left the world a better place then how he found it.

It may sound a bit silly that I'm talking about Gandhi on my first post on your journal :P , but I really feel that a similar approach can be applied to our urges. The urge for P is the persecutor of the innocent, and all attempts to overcome it through willpower alone seem to prove futile. P just always seem to be able to gather a bigger army and more a deadly arsenal.
So, we learn from experience that it doesn't work to declare outright war on P and resist with strong willpower and clenched fists. There has to be some kind of balance between remaining a warrior and not giving in to an urge, and staying peaceful and balanced in our fight. After all, we are warriors of love and peace. Is that not the kind of life we'd ultimately like to lead? Do we not wish to help others and have a positive impact on people's lives? It makes perfect sense, in my opinion, to start as we wish to go on.

Sure, it's easier said than done to be a peaceful warrior, but I truly believe we all have the potential in us to overcome the se urges, and overcome the urge to fight them with a violent mind. We can fight the urges with peaceful non-resistance, whilst remaining steadfast in our resolve, and it will lead to victory.

We know that we have to overcome P because it is the right thing to do, and so we are resolved to overcome it. This already makes us great. It may be a bumpy road, but we have to realise that we have already come a long way and that there is no turning back. We are all in this together. So let's fuckin' do this thang!

IT IS YOUR DESTINY TO BE FREE. DON'T LET YOUR DOPAMINE-STARVED BRAIN TELL YOU DIFFERENTLY!

YOU CAN DO THIS.

- Adventurer

Thanks, man. I appreciate the support. I like the idea. You made me think, you know? I'll try to see if I could implement some of that.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 28, 2019, 04:02:02 PM
I passed the 5th day too but not without incidents. Only a circumstance prevented a full relapse today. Urges never returned to the same level after that and I was lucky but I don't know what I would do otherwise.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 29, 2019, 02:29:47 AM
Day 6

I'm starting to notice some small benefits. I have a little less anxiety and a little more energy. My mood is good.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Thank you for all that you do for me on June 29, 2019, 05:18:07 AM
Lero, Well done! You’re doing a lot better than you think  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 29, 2019, 04:07:52 PM
Lero, Well done! You’re doing a lot better than you think  ;D ;D

Okay, man. Thanks.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 29, 2019, 04:09:55 PM
I don't even know if I should keep saying I haven't relapsed. I watched P and edged today too. I just didn't O. This time I edged for about an hour. It's more than yesterday. Fuck!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on June 29, 2019, 07:03:39 PM
Hey, I don't want to minimize the edging today and the little slip yesterday, but you made it to six days without a total-surrender relapse. It might not feel like a lot of progress, but it is progress. You made it a little bit longer than you have been lately. This isn't to give you a pass, but don't lose sight of the small successes you have a long the way. Getting to 6 days wasn't going to cure you. It's all part of the process.

But, based off what you said has happened, it seems clear that edging is the weak link. Edging comes first and then it moves to porn and becomes a relapse. So I guess forget porn for a minute: how can you get the edging under control?

This might sound a little silly, but someone suggested it to me, and it helped me through a rough patch. They suggested that I wear shorts with a drawstring to bed and to tie them tight. That made it a  lot harder to get my hand where I didn't want it. The other day, you were able to reframe your thoughts and give up on edging in bed because it wasn't what you wanted to do. Maybe having to get past a tightly belted pair of shorts would you buy you some time to catch yourself.

Or maybe that's not the right thing for you. The point is that it sounds like edging is the main problem right now. There's nothing about it that is safe, O or not. It can be easy to ignore edging because we think P is the problem, but if edging comes first, edging is the problem.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 30, 2019, 02:15:52 AM
Hey, I don't want to minimize the edging today and the little slip yesterday, but you made it to six days without a total-surrender relapse. It might not feel like a lot of progress, but it is progress. You made it a little bit longer than you have been lately. This isn't to give you a pass, but don't lose sight of the small successes you have a long the way. Getting to 6 days wasn't going to cure you. It's all part of the process.

But, based off what you said has happened, it seems clear that edging is the weak link. Edging comes first and then it moves to porn and becomes a relapse. So I guess forget porn for a minute: how can you get the edging under control?

This might sound a little silly, but someone suggested it to me, and it helped me through a rough patch. They suggested that I wear shorts with a drawstring to bed and to tie them tight. That made it a  lot harder to get my hand where I didn't want it. The other day, you were able to reframe your thoughts and give up on edging in bed because it wasn't what you wanted to do. Maybe having to get past a tightly belted pair of shorts would you buy you some time to catch yourself.

Or maybe that's not the right thing for you. The point is that it sounds like edging is the main problem right now. There's nothing about it that is safe, O or not. It can be easy to ignore edging because we think P is the problem, but if edging comes first, edging is the problem.

Edging is my big problem right now. It's like edging is what my brain wants the most. It's not about PMO-ing anymore, it's about spending hours edging to exhaustion. However, I've been able to avoid this in the last 2 days. The most I edged was for about an hour. I'm trying not to get caught in that.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 30, 2019, 02:17:00 AM
Day 7

I have to stay away from edging.

My mood is very good and I feel like I have an extra bag of energy that I could use to do things. I don't usually have this mood when I go through stressful times.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 30, 2019, 04:58:50 AM
My brain doesn't know about P. It knows about sex/procreation. It has built-in pathways for this. I've noticed that it associates P with that. It's like that chick from your neighborhood that you've fucked a couple of times. Thinking about fucking her again gives you those "urges", if you know what I mean. Jerking off to P makes us feel the same. We have those "urges" to "fuck" that video (PMO to it). Just thinking about it reminds us of the pleasure. The brain doesn't differentiate between P and the real life mating. That's why this addiction is so hard. But we are not fucking animals. We have to come in between and say: That is fake and that is real. I won't go for the fake. It's like eating something that tastes like meat but it's not meat. Why the fuck would I choose that? It's like those people who are saying: "Oh my God, I haven't fucked in a week, I'm going crazy!" It's the pathway screaming. You cannot "fuck" a computer monitor nor a phone's screen. It really comes down to choosing between fake and real. It is so hard, I know. The pain is real. The struggle is torture. But after years of pleasure, a period of pain is unavoidable. It's like a balance. You can't have pleasure without having pain. Just stop being weak and fight through it.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 30, 2019, 05:23:19 AM
One week without O. One week without binges. One week in which I only watched P and edged for about an hour and fifteen minutes total. This is more progress than I've had in maybe a year.

What has been helping me is watching videos with guys that I consider "real men." I look at them and I want to be like them. Anytime I have cravings for P, I go back to those videos and say: "Going back to P will keep me at the level of weakling. I want to be a strong guy, like them. I have to keep going. Those guys don't PMO. If they were, they wouldn't be badass. Do I still want to be a weak guy, with anxiety, low energy, passive, submissive etc. ?" Nofap has been the force behind many great men of the century. There were some guys who didn't want to get married because they said that women would "weaken" them and stop them from the researches and discoveries. Maybe some people would consider this extreme, but I understand them. This sexual energy is a tank of fuel that gives us drive for doing things. Throw it away with PMO and you will do nothing. I am not as extreme and I say that sex is the only excuse. P must not make you throw away your sexual energy.

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Non-Dual Adventurer on June 30, 2019, 11:50:03 AM
Huge congratulations dude!!! That's great stuff! Whatever works to bring you back to the clarity behind your motivation for quitting is really good news! Keep flexible in your approach, keep kind to yourself, and sexual freedom from P and the deep fulfillment you wish for are right there at your fingertips man!

- Adventurer
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 30, 2019, 12:23:50 PM
Huge congratulations dude!!! That's great stuff! Whatever works to bring you back to the clarity behind your motivation for quitting is really good news! Keep flexible in your approach, keep kind to yourself, and sexual freedom from P and the deep fulfillment you wish for are right there at your fingertips man!

- Adventurer

Many thanks, man! I appreciate your encouragement on my journal!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 30, 2019, 12:42:42 PM
The idea is this: People give you advice, they tell you what worked for them etc. But at the end of the day, they can't save you. They can't grab you by the hand and lead you to the salvation. They can't tie you to a radiator and watch you 24/7 so you couldn't relapse. They offer you all the help they could but... And this sucks for a lot of people, I know, it's tough to hear this but... You have the last word. That's why some people will never quit P. Why? Because you need to face pain. Who can actually tolerate this pain and get that good streak away from P, is the one who has chances to be saved.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: achilles heel on June 30, 2019, 12:55:27 PM
This is more progress than I've had in maybe a year.

This is important to point out, you kept working on your recovery and improved! There might be setbacks, but it's important to not give up and keep going. I wish you all the best on further progress!  :)
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 30, 2019, 01:02:53 PM
This is more progress than I've had in maybe a year.

This is important to point out, you kept working on your recovery and improved! There might be setbacks, but it's important to not give up and keep going. I wish you all the best on further progress!  :)

Many thanks, man! This time I will blow this out of proportions. I am too pissed off. To much time being mediocre because of P.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on June 30, 2019, 01:03:34 PM
So Day 7 is done without watching P, without edging without nothing.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on June 30, 2019, 06:40:47 PM
Keep it going, man. Lots of good reflection in your last posts. You're right, at some level, it's all up to you and your willingness to put up with the pain of recovery.

Right, we start to quit PMO because it is causing us too much pain, but then getting it out of our lives is painful too. Giving up edging is painful. Giving up any habit hurts, especially one that has given us pleasure and helped us to forget out problems. But we have to remember that life without PMO (in any form) is worth the pain of getting there. Giving up on recovery will hurt less than trying, but it will never be as good as life in strong recovery.

I also really like your idea of finding role-model men to keep in mind when urges come up. I've thought about men I look up to in the past, sort of like, What would they think if they saw me relapsing right now? But even more than that, I think it's awesome to have some kind of endpoint or goal in mind. If we can't imagine the life we're actually working towards, the pain of recovery might not seem worth it.

Stay focused on the prize and keep pushing through the pain. All progress is progress, even if there are some setbacks along the way.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 01, 2019, 04:11:41 AM
I relapsed.  :( After edging for three days, I finally gave in.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 01, 2019, 10:33:05 AM
This anxiety is killing me.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Non-Dual Adventurer on July 01, 2019, 12:20:00 PM
Stop. Breathe. Consider what worked on this last streak. Be sure not to throw the baby out with the bath water in terms of the insights you had. Consider what went wrong. Did you spend too much time by the computer? How was your exercise routine last week? Did you meditate? Did you spend time with people you love?

Don't worry, and just let the feelings settle. It feels shit but you need to be kind to yourself regardless. Maybe call a friend and make some healthy dinner?

Regardless of what your reptilian brain has just done, it doesn't change for a second my resolve and my certainty that you are fully capable of recovering fully from this, and that you are well on your way!

- Adventurer
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: achilles heel on July 01, 2019, 02:49:28 PM
Maybe some advice, as I noticed this before your relapse:

Many thanks, man! This time I will blow this out of proportions. I am too pissed off. To much time being mediocre because of P.

Try to cut out negative emotions as much as possible. Gaining your motivation to quit out of anger about your own addiction will sooner or later backfire, I made the same experience far too long.

You are not better or worse because of using porn. You are addicted. Try to look at it as a disease that requires certain precautions in your life.

Hope this comparison doesn't sound stupid, but if you suffer from diabetes you will have to watch your diet for the rest of your life. A better comparison might be the alcoholic who never again will be able to drink a few beers with his friends. And we as porn addicts have to check our whole environment for triggers and obstacles and make sure we completely avoid them.

Make a list of negative effects that bother you as a consequence of your porn use, then let this turn into a deep decision to quit and prepare yourself to bring any sacrifice neccessary.

Block your devices or even leave them out of the house. I'm currently going a month without my cell phone at home and sometimes it really sucks, but I know I am not in control and must bring this sacrifice. Analyze your latest relapses and try to identify what causes most problems.

You can do it, figure out the positive and negative aspects of your latest streak and get back on the horse!  :)
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Do or die on July 01, 2019, 02:57:04 PM
I am also defeated many withdrawal. At day 13 today. Set a goal for what you want in your life. And focus on it.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 02, 2019, 04:44:37 AM
Thanks everyone for the support.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 02, 2019, 05:11:07 AM
Day 1

Sometimes, anxiety is a sign that things in your life are not all right. I need to implement a healthier lifestyle. I kind of let myself go and hit the junk food and the bottle too much in the last months. Most times when I relapsed was after drinking. And I'm tired of going to work with a hangover and dragging myself around painfully.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 02, 2019, 10:21:59 AM
I've been kind of depressed these past two days. Also dealing with some bothering general anxiety. This being said, my mood is terrible. I feel tired and stressed out. I can't believe what a shift, man. Three days ago I felt like I could conquer the world and now... Drinking for 3 days straight and a relapse fucked me up. Of course, it's clear I have to stay away from those two but it feels such a hard task to accomplish when you feel depressed, stressed, anxious and tired. Like a car with a flat tire.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 02, 2019, 06:58:54 PM
Of course, it's clear I have to stay away from those two but it feels such a hard task to accomplish when you feel depressed, stressed, anxious and tired. Like a car with a flat tire.

Stop. Breathe. Consider what worked on this last streak. Be sure not to throw the baby out with the bath water in terms of the insights you had. Consider what went wrong. Did you spend too much time by the computer? How was your exercise routine last week? Did you meditate? Did you spend time with people you love?

Hey, man, sorry to hear it finally got you. Every day is a fresh start, though, so shake it off and keep going.

I really agree with what Non-Dual Adventurer said: I have had a long habit of giving up on things that helped as soon as I relapsed because I assumed they didn't actually work. Don't give up on the things you are doing to keep yourself on track. It's not that they don't work, just that you aren't a machine who can change with the press of a button. After my last relapse, I decided I was going to re-implement all the things I had ever tried (internet filter, counting days, meditation, policing my thoughts, etc.) and just really commit to taking care of myself.

As for the anxiety and everything else, I think a lot of people here (including me) deal with some form of persistent negative feelings like that. For most, if not all, of us, porn is a kind of medication that gets us through them, but in a destructive way. I think it would be really valuable to look back on the sources of your anxiety and to plan different ways of dealing with those stressors. And avoid those triggering behaviors like the plague (drinking, edging, etc.)!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 03, 2019, 03:56:54 AM
Hey, man, sorry to hear it finally got you. Every day is a fresh start, though, so shake it off and keep going.

I really agree with what Non-Dual Adventurer said: I have had a long habit of giving up on things that helped as soon as I relapsed because I assumed they didn't actually work. Don't give up on the things you are doing to keep yourself on track. It's not that they don't work, just that you aren't a machine who can change with the press of a button. After my last relapse, I decided I was going to re-implement all the things I had ever tried (internet filter, counting days, meditation, policing my thoughts, etc.) and just really commit to taking care of myself.

As for the anxiety and everything else, I think a lot of people here (including me) deal with some form of persistent negative feelings like that. For most, if not all, of us, porn is a kind of medication that gets us through them, but in a destructive way. I think it would be really valuable to look back on the sources of your anxiety and to plan different ways of dealing with those stressors. And avoid those triggering behaviors like the plague (drinking, edging, etc.)!

Thanks, man.

Alcohol is the one that destabilizes me the most. It raises my anxiety like crazy and then I'm predisposed to binges. I binge drank for 3 days in a row with some guys and then I relapsed. I don't even know how it was possible to jerk off to P with that crazy hangover. One shouldn't even be able to move from bed but I did and relapsed after edging for an hour.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 03, 2019, 11:21:13 AM
Day 2

I've been kind of fucked up those couple of days that I lost track, I couldn't remember today was the second day, I had to look up in the journal. Fuck. Alcohol did a number on me this time. So okay, day 2. I felt better than yesterday and waaaaay better than on Monday when I had so much anxiety I was literally freaking out, man. I really had a terrible day. I hope I start feeling better from today on, I want to forget about Monday. I was stressed out and had some hard things to complete. Adding the hardcore hangover I had in the morning and the strain that alcohol put on me after 3 days of swimming in it... It's a miracle I did everything I had to do, although not smiling. I had a very tough time. Okay, I just want to get back to 1 week without PMO. Today I had some fantasies reminding me about the pleasure and that I should indulge in some fetishes but I survived. P likes to attack you when you are weak.

By the way: This is my 7th page in the journal. Come on, 7 days.

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Non-Dual Adventurer on July 03, 2019, 01:08:24 PM
Hey Lero,

Do you think it's possible for you to control alcohol or has it got to a point where if you drink, you always end up binging? For me, a nice cold beer or two a couple of nights a week can be very relaxing, but I usually try not to have more than 3 max because then I just get a hangover and feel like shit. From the sound of it, it's probably a good idea to cut down on the alcohol, I just want to make sure that your decision to completely abstain from it won't exacerbate your anxiety because you're quitting two things at the same time. What I mean is, quitting P is already really hard by itself, so only quit drinking if you feel you also have no control over it. Otherwise, I'd say just limit your alcohol intake to two beers, for example, in order to avoid binging.

- Adventurer
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 03, 2019, 01:27:42 PM
Hey Lero,

Do you think it's possible for you to control alcohol or has it got to a point where if you drink, you always end up binging? For me, a nice cold beer or two a couple of nights a week can be very relaxing, but I usually try not to have more than 3 max because then I just get a hangover and feel like shit. From the sound of it, it's probably a good idea to cut down on the alcohol, I just want to make sure that your decision to completely abstain from it won't exacerbate your anxiety because you're quitting two things at the same time. What I mean is, quitting P is already really hard by itself, so only quit drinking if you feel you also have no control over it. Otherwise, I'd say just limit your alcohol intake to two beers, for example, in order to avoid binging.

- Adventurer

I don't drink alone, I drink at parties or hanging out with friends and you know how this goes. It usually becomes a binge.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 04, 2019, 03:13:16 AM
Day 3

You want to destroy the old house to build a new one. But you better build the new house in another place and the old house won't matter anymore.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: pichaelthompson on July 04, 2019, 03:13:29 PM
Building a strong foundation is always the most important for long term sustainability. Make sure that you have guiding principles that will support everything you do as you progress. Best of luck!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 04, 2019, 03:30:41 PM
Building a strong foundation is always the most important for long term sustainability. Make sure that you have guiding principles that will support everything you do as you progress. Best of luck!

That's true, man.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 04, 2019, 03:38:51 PM
The 3rd day is out the window. My addicted brain reminded me that I would enjoy some edging but I said: "No, man, I'm alright." I felt better than the last three days. Low anxiety that didn't bother me. I had decent mood for doing things and I didn't get angry easily. Tomorrow is day 4, which is the day when troubles start. But I've gone through it during my last 8 days streak so I should have a better tolerance this time. I've turned down a drinking invitation. Fuck this. If I don't start actually doing things for my well-being then who will? You are responsible for yourself. People don't actually tie you to the radiator and watch you 24/7.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Do or die on July 05, 2019, 12:11:10 AM
I am also at same condition . at day 3 today. My mind also saying to me that its ok to relapse again and start again . but i not heared the voice of my mind. Because my mind only want a dopamine hit . he don't know actually what is happiness.
So till total recovery i need to defeat with my thoughts who support porn.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 05, 2019, 02:29:12 AM
I am also at same condition . at day 3 today. My mind also saying to me that its ok to relapse again and start again . but i not heared the voice of my mind. Because my mind only want a dopamine hit . he don't know actually what is happiness.
So till total recovery i need to defeat with my thoughts who support porn.

That's right. If we relapsed, we would be back at day 0 and who wants this anymore?
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 05, 2019, 03:47:08 AM
Day 4

Only the one who tries has a chance.

My mood is pretty good, anxiety is low. My mind functions pretty well, the words come out well.

That "voice" in my head started telling me: "It's day 4, isn't it? So, you know what day 4 means, right? What are you waiting for? Jump on that website! Okay, alright, you don't want to PMO? Just edge a little bit. One minute. You can stop after one minute, don't you feel that? The arousal will feel good, just one minute!" I have to tell it "No", I have to tell it I don't need that and that I know where all that leads to.

It's like a spoiled kid who got used to eating "junk food" everyday. Now he doesn't get it anymore and throws tantrums. I feel like I want to slap him and make him shut up but he will get hurt, start crying, and it's never a good idea to beat kids. Instead, I have to teach him that the "junk food" will make him fat and affect his health. He will not want to hear about it but he will grow up and understand that it was the best choice.

It's like a kid who went outside, in cold weather, and caught a cold. Now he is asking for medicine but I have to tell him: "Next time, don't go outside, in the cold, without warm clothes."

Fighting aggressively against that "bad part of yourself" is not a good idea. Instead, you have to "educate" it. You have to treat it with care, like a bedridden person. Would you treat a sick person with a whip? You don't need to get mad at yourself, you don't need to hate yourself. You just need to care about yourself. You have to calm down that part of yours and make it understand that it got to that point not because it is "bad", but because it was just a curious kid who had fun without knowing the consequences.



Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: achilles heel on July 05, 2019, 12:05:59 PM
You don't need to get mad at yourself, you don't need to hate yourself. You just need to care about yourself. You have to calm down that part of yours and make it understand that it got to that point not because it is "bad", but because it was just a curious kid who had fun without knowing the consequences.

Exactly, that's the hardest part when cravings set in. I hope you stay strong, 4 days is a good beginning already!  :)
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 05, 2019, 03:32:05 PM
Exactly, that's the hardest part when cravings set in. I hope you stay strong, 4 days is a good beginning already!  :)

Thanks, man. I've reached day 4 a million times but it never evolved into something bigger. I hope I could get a better streak at last because I'm tired of it.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 06, 2019, 03:39:45 AM
Day 5

I woke up to hard urges that reminded me of the pleasure. Edging felt such a great idea, the best thing in the world. Only the rational part of my brain was the only one that thought it was a terrible idea. You literally feel with your entire being that PMO-ing right now will be awesome and worth it. P flashbacks and fantasies bombarded my mind at 1000 miles an hour. I had to get out of the bed earlier and go outside then I came here to write this. One week is the first checkpoint.

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 06, 2019, 05:42:10 AM
I relapsed
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: achilles heel on July 06, 2019, 08:31:01 AM
It doesn't matter how many times you relapsed or will relapse, just get up one more time. Consistency is the key and you will find the support you need to go on bigger streaks from time to time. This might take months or years, but there is no alternative to leaving this addiction behind. Stay strong!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 06, 2019, 10:05:24 AM
It doesn't matter how many times you relapsed or will relapse, just get up one more time. Consistency is the key and you will find the support you need to go on bigger streaks from time to time. This might take months or years, but there is no alternative to leaving this addiction behind. Stay strong!

You know, I've been trying a lot but I don't know what's wrong. I know what things to do but, for some reason, I don't seem to do it right. The best I could do was only 8 days since the beginning of the year. I feel exhausted with this shit. I mean, I know what you're saying but I think you understand me when I say that I feel battered, desperate, hopeless and tired of trying again and again and failing at the same fucking things that I am supposed to avoid. The best I could do in 7 months is 8 days. This is fucking pathetic. It's been years since I've been fighting with this shit but this year is probably the worst. In the past I could tie a longer streak together, doing 2 weeks, 1 month, 3 weeks etc. Now only 8 fucking days, man. I can't take this shit anymore. I think I'm sexually frustrated. I mean, I've never really had great streak in the past either. The best I did was 1 month. In years, the best I can do is 1 month. I don't know, man, I seem to have a really hard time with this shit. It makes me wonder if I could actually do it.   
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: achilles heel on July 06, 2019, 12:51:52 PM
I discovered porn was a problem I needed to stop in 2013, discovered this page in 2014 and started my journal in 2016. That's six years and I'm currently a month clean, not that much yet. I reached the point of giving in to this addiction several times, but in the end came back just as you will come back if you decide to stop trying for now.

The barrier of entering a community of self-help for an addiction is really high, it means you and me must be really fucked up by our problem, otherwise we'd just quit our problem quietly and advance in life. To "come out" and constantly write about this means it's important to us. Not only important, but the number one priority! We feel like we can just live the life we want if we get rid of this.

Now, considering this we need to make sacrifices. I was unable to have a cell phone at home and not relapse sooner or later even with blockers. As a consequence the cell phone had to go, although this really, really sucks and I'm without communication for many hours a day now. But I gave it many tries and I am just unable to control myself under certain circumstances.

You relapse after getting drunk, so stop drinking (for a longer time). It seems a big deal, but you know you want to get rid of porn more than anything else, so this is just a tiny sacrifice.

After years and years of failing I came to the conclusion that almost all you need is in this (http://www.rebootnation.org/forum/index.php?topic=1256.0) thread by user William. He seemed to be too extreme when I first read this, but he is just about right.

This post is for porn addicts for whom use of porn has become seemingly impossible to quit, highly compulsive

To get clean you have to reach a place in  your life where "getting clean" is the most important thing to you.  If it is five down on your wish list, you are not ready.

That's two important quotes out of his introduction. Give it a try!

I know how you feel at the moment, but take your time, prepare yourself well in advance before starting a new attempt and then go for it again! This journey is very hard, but it's possible to leave porn behind and live a happy life. You deserve to and should not feel disencouraged by your latest failures. If you need any help, just write me a PM!  :)
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 06, 2019, 06:26:10 PM
Hey man, I used porn almost daily for about three years before I started to quit. I started trying 10 years ago. I feel like I'm in a pretty good place now, but this isn't my first try.

You're not pathetic because this is hard. This is hard. This is honestly the hardest thing I've ever done. And it's hard because there is still a part of me (shrinking, I hope) that wants porn. It's not like breaking up with someone you don't like anymore. It's like giving up something that you still in some way desperately want. There isn't a switch you can flip and just stop wanting it. You have to decide not to PMO even though you want it.

I don't know how many times I told myself "this is the last time." I don't know how many times I told myself "Why does this keep happening, I don't even want it anymore." But the fact that it kept happening meant that I was still listening to the part of me that wanted it. It is strong. It is hard to resist. But it only ever wins when we let it. I had to finally get really serious with myself and realize that I was only going to stop if I stopped. I had to take complete responsibility...for everything. If porn got me, it was because I chose to creep on girls in real life or chose to edge or decided to just have fantasies. Maybe porn really is stronger than me, but I don't have to welcome it into my life by scrolling through a social media feed until I see someone in a bikini. All of that was on me, and I was letting myself think it was harmless because it felt good and it wasn't porn.

It took me a long time to really realize how much of my addiction I was tolerating and even welcoming into my life as long as it wasn't actual nudity on my screen or actual MO. And because of that, I couldn't go longer than a month for years and years. The fact that you haven't gone longer than a month is not pathetic (if that's true, we all either are or have been pathetic). The fact that you're still trying after so many years and relapses is AMAZING! The people who fail are the people who give up. Do not give up.

One thing that has helped me a lot lately is treating every day like it's day 1. Forget the streak, forget that you usually relapse on day 4. Today is day 1. Tomorrow is day 1. How often have you gone one day without porn or edging or fantasies or anything else? You have already shown yourself that you can make it through one day. So just make it through one more, no matter how many clean days you've had before.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 07, 2019, 04:56:53 AM
Thanks Achilles Heel and Blue Heron for the replies.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 07, 2019, 05:32:40 AM
Yesterday, I woke up and had hard urges right from the start. P flashbacks and fantasies were pushing me toward PMO but I thought: "Not today. I want to accomplish one week." Fast-forward an hour later and I'm with my dick in my hand, jerking off to P, while telling myself: "Just a minute, then I'll quit."

I jerked off for about two minutes and I O-ed by mistake. I felt the O coming and I panicked: "No, no, no, stop this shit! Don't O!" It was too late. Then the feeling of regret and depression embraced me and I felt like shit. The same text went through my head: "Why the fuck do you keep sabotaging yourself like this? Why edge? Why watch P. Don't you know by now you shouldn't do this? You lost five days again! Now anxiety, no mood, feeling miserable... You welcome this into your fucking life!" It's not the first time when I edge "just a little bit" and I O accidentally.

Then the chaser effect started bothering me. The craving for another PMO was too strong but I told myself: "No, I've made a mistake already, I won't make another one. I will not binge." Everything fine, right? No. I ended up giving in to the craving and I PMO-ed again. And again. And again. Four times already. I was in the middle of a binge. I could not lift myself from there. I started spacing out, starring at the wall in bewilderment of how miserable I was. "What the fuck am I doing?" I said to myself. The binge made me even more depressed and I went to the store, bought myself four cans of beer and I drank aggressively. Then I bought a bottle of wine and drank that too. One destruction led to another and I fucked myself up by the end of the day. Being weekend facilitated this too easily. I felt hopeless. "How the fuck am I going to stop doing this, man? What am I doing wrong? I know what I have to do. I've been reading everything I could find and watching everything. I have some knowledge about this so what the fuck is going on?" I thought.

I woke up with a hard hangover that kept me in bed for another three hours. I wanted to get up but I couldn't. Finally, I left the bed at noon and went to the kitchen. I am dealing with a tone of anxiety right now. Alcohol and PMO binges raise my anxiety. I'm lost. I don't know what to do anymore. I'm starting doubting if I could actually quit P forever. Maybe I will never do it. Maybe I will fucking die like this.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: dusty on July 07, 2019, 07:02:28 AM
Yesterday, I woke up and had hard urges right from the start. P flashbacks and fantasies were pushing me toward PMO but I thought: "Not today. I want to accomplish one week." Fast-forward an hour later and I'm with my dick in my hand, jerking off to P, while telling myself: "Just a minute, then I'll quit."

I jerked off for about two minutes and I O-ed by mistake. I felt the O coming and I panicked: "No, no, no, stop this shit! Don't O!" It was too late. Then the feeling of regret and depression embraced me and I felt like shit. The same text went through my head: "Why the fuck do you keep sabotaging yourself like this? Why edge? Why watch P. Don't you know by now you shouldn't do this? You lost five days again! Now anxiety, no mood, feeling miserable... You welcome this into your fucking life!" It's not the first time when I edge "just a little bit" and I O accidentally.

Then the chaser effect started bothering me. The craving for another PMO was too strong but I told myself: "No, I've made a mistake already, I won't make another one. I will not binge." Everything fine, right? No. I ended up giving in to the craving and I PMO-ed again. And again. And again. Four times already. I was in the middle of a binge. I could not lift myself from there. I started spacing out, starring at the wall in bewilderment of how miserable I was. "What the fuck am I doing?" I said to myself. The binge made me even more depressed and I went to the store, bought myself four cans of beer and I drank aggressively. Then I bought a bottle of wine and drank that too. One destruction led to another and I fucked myself up by the end of the day. Being weekend facilitated this too easily. I felt hopeless. "How the fuck am I going to stop doing this, man? What am I doing wrong? I know what I have to do. I've been reading everything I could find and watching everything. I have some knowledge about this so what the fuck is going on?" I thought.

I woke up with a hard hangover that kept me in bed for another three hours. I wanted to get up but I couldn't. Finally, I left the bed at noon and went to the kitchen. I am dealing with a tone of anxiety right now. Alcohol and PMO binges raise my anxiety. I'm lost. I don't know what to do anymore. I'm starting doubting if I could actually quit P forever. Maybe I will never do it. Maybe I will fucking die like this.

Ehh, it sounds miserable but so typical among us. I was in similar situations many times. If you push yourself to mainatain around 10 days without porn these craving will be much smaller. Trust me. At the beginning you have to be very strong but after some time it's only important to keep motivation.

Look at this like that - PMO is a very pleasurable activity. But it lasts only a few minutes and completely destroys your happiness, self-confidence, spiritual life, health, motivation, self-improvement, love. This exchange is never proitable.

I keep my fingers crossed Lero.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 07, 2019, 08:46:17 AM
Ehh, it sounds miserable but so typical among us. I was in similar situations many times. If you push yourself to mainatain around 10 days without porn these craving will be much smaller. Trust me. At the beginning you have to be very strong but after some time it's only important to keep motivation.

Look at this like that - PMO is a very pleasurable activity. But it lasts only a few minutes and completely destroys your happiness, self-confidence, spiritual life, health, motivation, self-improvement, love. This exchange is never proitable.

I keep my fingers crossed Lero.

Thanks, man. I appreciate your support.

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 07, 2019, 09:08:14 AM
Day 0

By the day, I forgot to say I binged today too. You know why: The follow up of drinking yesterday. I'm so sick of this shit.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Do or die on July 07, 2019, 02:09:09 PM
Keep going bro. Don't take tension
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: pichaelthompson on July 07, 2019, 05:36:18 PM
I would recommend either drinking less so there are maybe less urges or making some gameplan the morning after to make sure there is no way you will relapse. Like maybe you can say "If I drink tonight, I promise to wakeup early and go workout," or just replace working out with something else that will get you out of bed and moving around. Balance is always important in life; it's important to have fun, but it is equally important to train your mind and body so that the occasional drink (or few drinks) won't impede your ability to go after your goals the next day. We all are lucky to have an opportunity to learn from our mistakes, and in doing so we can help others both in this forum and real life. Overcoming adversity is part of the human condition; suffering is necessary to find peace.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 07, 2019, 06:13:19 PM
Sorry to hear about it, man. I know too well the feeling of the accidental O. It's trash, and I'm sorry you're dealing with it.

One thing that helped me was to start treating urges like little emergencies or like an early warning system. If you wake up feeling urges, that is not a time to stay in bed. That is a time to run out of the room and to get your mind busy doing something else. Edging is not a safe alternative to porn, as you know. Edging is one step in a long list of steps in a relapse. Fantasies and urges and edging are not safe. Treat them like the emergencies they are. If it's cloudy outside, you'll take an umbrella. If you wake up with urges, then you know what's coming, and it will take more than willpower in bed to get through it safely.

It took me a long, long time to realize that there are no "safe" fantasies. When my addiction is sexual, there is no safe way to fantasize about sex or porn or anything like that. I used to think that only PMO was the emergency. Treating fantasies as an emergency has helped me to take more responsibility for my relapses faster and doing what I need to do to take care of myself.

I also used to think that my goal was to make it so that I never got urges because they always won when I had them. But, once I got through a round of urges for the first time, I realized that they do eventually ease up. They don't get worse forever until we break. Now, my goal is not to never have urges (impossible) but to do and think something else when the urges do come (very possible).

Keep going man. It sounds like you know what you need to do. If you're anything like me (and it sort of sounds like you are), the trick now will be to convince yourself to actually do what you need to do. (And I hope that, unlike me, it doesn't take you years to do it.)
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 08, 2019, 03:15:09 AM
I would recommend either drinking less so there are maybe less urges or making some gameplan the morning after to make sure there is no way you will relapse. Like maybe you can say "If I drink tonight, I promise to wakeup early and go workout," or just replace working out with something else that will get you out of bed and moving around. Balance is always important in life; it's important to have fun, but it is equally important to train your mind and body so that the occasional drink (or few drinks) won't impede your ability to go after your goals the next day. We all are lucky to have an opportunity to learn from our mistakes, and in doing so we can help others both in this forum and real life. Overcoming adversity is part of the human condition; suffering is necessary to find peace.

Thanks, man.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 08, 2019, 03:17:47 AM
Sorry to hear about it, man. I know too well the feeling of the accidental O. It's trash, and I'm sorry you're dealing with it.

One thing that helped me was to start treating urges like little emergencies or like an early warning system. If you wake up feeling urges, that is not a time to stay in bed. That is a time to run out of the room and to get your mind busy doing something else. Edging is not a safe alternative to porn, as you know. Edging is one step in a long list of steps in a relapse. Fantasies and urges and edging are not safe. Treat them like the emergencies they are. If it's cloudy outside, you'll take an umbrella. If you wake up with urges, then you know what's coming, and it will take more than willpower in bed to get through it safely.

It took me a long, long time to realize that there are no "safe" fantasies. When my addiction is sexual, there is no safe way to fantasize about sex or porn or anything like that. I used to think that only PMO was the emergency. Treating fantasies as an emergency has helped me to take more responsibility for my relapses faster and doing what I need to do to take care of myself.

I also used to think that my goal was to make it so that I never got urges because they always won when I had them. But, once I got through a round of urges for the first time, I realized that they do eventually ease up. They don't get worse forever until we break. Now, my goal is not to never have urges (impossible) but to do and think something else when the urges do come (very possible).

Keep going man. It sounds like you know what you need to do. If you're anything like me (and it sort of sounds like you are), the trick now will be to convince yourself to actually do what you need to do. (And I hope that, unlike me, it doesn't take you years to do it.)

"Just a little bit and then I'll stop" fucked me up once more. I don't know how long it will take, it's possible even years, but it's not something I want. Right now I'm destabilized and lost.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 08, 2019, 03:37:49 AM
Day 1

I'm so tired of writing "Day 1" here.

I feel exhausted, depressed and hopeless. Plus, I have a lot of anxiety. There is some stress in my life right now but I feel too battered to deal with it. I'm tired of binging.

After a binge, when I'm completely drained, it's easy to say: "Okay, this was the last time. Starting tomorrow I will do it." But once the urges return, so does the feeling of: "Fuck it, this is too hard." Sometimes I PMO just to stop the pain of urges and P flashbacks.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: squid on July 08, 2019, 06:26:38 AM
Day 1

I'm so tired of writing "Day 1" here.

I feel exhausted, depressed and hopeless. Plus, I have a lot of anxiety. There is some stress in my life right now but I feel too battered to deal with it. I'm tired of binging.

After a binge, when I'm completely drained, it's easy to say: "Okay, this was the last time. Starting tomorrow I will do it." But once the urges return, so does the feeling of: "Fuck it, this is too hard." Sometimes I PMO just to stop the pain of urges and P flashbacks.

The same thing happens to me.  Sometimes it feels like the resolve after a binge is just part of the loop.  But having the desire to be who you really are without feeling like a zombie is an important desire.  If I've learned anything from my journey with pmo it's that it only has power when we give it power.  It's a shadow from the light that is our ambition.  It's fear.  So I'd say try to focus on something you really want and go get it.  And the pmo urges will fade.  You can do it.  Every day people do it.  It's not impossible, and we are with you.

-squid
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 08, 2019, 06:45:01 AM
The same thing happens to me.  Sometimes it feels like the resolve after a binge is just part of the loop.  But having the desire to be who you really are without feeling like a zombie is an important desire.  If I've learned anything from my journey with pmo it's that it only has power when we give it power.  It's a shadow from the light that is our ambition.  It's fear.  So I'd say try to focus on something you really want and go get it.  And the pmo urges will fade.  You can do it.  Every day people do it.  It's not impossible, and we are with you.

-squid

I know what you're saying, man, however there is a "but" in all this. I know all that. I know who I want to be, I know that my high anxiety is a result of P addiction, I know that I want to get rid of it, I know that I want more energy and more drive for life but I don't know what's going on. It's like a short-circuit in the brain. That's why I'm so depressed about it. Despise knowing all that, I'm still not successful. It's like picturing the goal goes only so far and at the end of the day, the craving for P wins. It's like the fight between short term reward and long term achievement is won unanimously by the former. That's why I'm saying I'm exhausted with this shit. I really don't understand what I'm missing, what I'm doing wrong, why I do everything I do for recovery but I still fail all the time. I don't think everybody is built the same and I really know that I'm having a very hard time with this. I'm really struggling.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: squid on July 08, 2019, 07:21:33 AM
The same thing happens to me.  Sometimes it feels like the resolve after a binge is just part of the loop.  But having the desire to be who you really are without feeling like a zombie is an important desire.  If I've learned anything from my journey with pmo it's that it only has power when we give it power.  It's a shadow from the light that is our ambition.  It's fear.  So I'd say try to focus on something you really want and go get it.  And the pmo urges will fade.  You can do it.  Every day people do it.  It's not impossible, and we are with you.

-squid

I know what you're saying, man, however there is a "but" in all this. I know all that. I know who I want to be, I know that my high anxiety is a result of P addiction, I know that I want to get rid of it, I know that I want more energy and more drive for life but I don't know what's going on. It's like a short-circuit in the brain. That's why I'm so depressed about it. Despise knowing all that, I'm still not successful. It's like picturing the goal goes only so far and at the end of the day, the craving for P wins. It's like the fight between short term reward and long term achievement is won unanimously by the former. That's why I'm saying I'm exhausted with this shit. I really don't understand what I'm missing, what I'm doing wrong, why I do everything I do for recovery but I still fail all the time. I don't think everybody is built the same and I really know that I'm having a very hard time with this. I'm really struggling.

When I feel like that, I like to take a bath or do some yoga under candlelight.  Something to treat yourself for trying so hard.  Porn has been designed by companies making millons to enchant young men like me and you.  It's a product marketed by people with data and marketing plans to increase time watched month over month.  The thing to remember is that we will never cure our restlessness by contributing to the bottom line of bullshit inc.  Only by the doing our work, our art, the song no one else can sing but you.  You can do it!  It's really hard, I've been there too man.
 Depressed and eyes glassed over with no emotions because of pmo. 
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Non-Dual Adventurer on July 08, 2019, 02:00:58 PM
All great suggestions on this journal. I just relapsed too. Very important to learn from the negatives but focus on the positives. Easier said than done sometimes, of course. I'm rooting for you man!

- Adventurer
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 08, 2019, 03:04:02 PM
All great suggestions on this journal. I just relapsed too. Very important to learn from the negatives but focus on the positives. Easier said than done sometimes, of course. I'm rooting for you man!

It's hard. I'm struggling with this shit. Maybe because I'm stressed out with my job.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 09, 2019, 09:03:42 AM
Day 2

I feel overwhelmed by the stress and anxiety. I have panic problems. My mood is bad, my energy is low and I have this overall feeling that I just want to lie down and be left alone. I basically push myself through everything I have to do. My body moves but I'm not there.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Non-Dual Adventurer on July 09, 2019, 12:37:18 PM
Man, I wish I could jump through the screen and just give you a huge bro hug!

The truth is, you've been through worse so you can get through this too. I feel like our brains try to make us feel like this is the worst shit ever when it's happening, but there's worse shit we've had to wade through in this life. That's not to say it isn't fucking hard and painful, but you can do this! Be kind to yourself. Go meet a friend or family member. Surround yourself with positivity. Explain what is happening to you. Do you have friends in real life who know what you're going through?

- Adventurer
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 09, 2019, 01:12:36 PM
Man, I wish I could jump through the screen and just give you a huge bro hug!

The truth is, you've been through worse so you can get through this too. I feel like our brains try to make us feel like this is the worst shit ever when it's happening, but there's worse shit we've had to wade through in this life. That's not to say it isn't fucking hard and painful, but you can do this! Be kind to yourself. Go meet a friend or family member. Surround yourself with positivity. Explain what is happening to you. Do you have friends in real life who know what you're going through?

- Adventurer

Okay, man, thanks for the hug.

I have no friends who know about my problems. My parents know about my anxiety and depression (but not about P).
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Non-Dual Adventurer on July 09, 2019, 04:24:53 PM
For me, telling people really helped me to realise that I'm not alone. I would recommend telling a few people you really trust about it, and you will see the reaction will not be that of judgement but of support.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 09, 2019, 05:18:16 PM
For me, telling people really helped me to realise that I'm not alone. I would recommend telling a few people you really trust about it, and you will see the reaction will not be that of judgement but of support.

Okay. Thanks, man.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 09, 2019, 06:12:28 PM
Earlier in the year I listened to a lot of talks about addiction, and one of the things that really stuck out to me was the idea that every addiction is rooted in some trauma. We start our addictions as a response to some trauma, and we return to them every time we hit another bump in the road. Addictions, at their core, are about coping with negative feelings in life.

On some level, that seems obvious, but I had never heard it in those words. For me, understanding that my addiction was own mind/body's way of trying to help me to deal with trauma in life helped me to take a different attitude and to really change my mindset when it comes to this addiction. My brain is not my enemy: it's trying really really hard to help me in the best way it knows how. It's not self-sabotage. It's a misguided attempt at self-care.

Thinking about my urges and addiction this way has helped me to take some of the stress and frustration out of the process. When urges arise, I don't get angry and frustrated. Instead, I can say to myself, Thanks for noticing that I'm in trouble, but I'm not going to solve this one with PMO. The urges are a sign that something is wrong,  not that we are still addicted but that we still have some stress/anxiety/pain/sadness/etc. that needs to be addressed.

For me, recognizing that my addiction was a misguided coping mechanism and realizing that it was a signal that I had other problems I needed to deal with really helped me to turn a corner in the way I dealt with it. It's like pulling weeds: if we only pull of the leaves, it will keep growing back. It will only stop when we pull out the roots. Trying to quit PMO without addressing that underlying pain is like pulling off the leaves of the weed. I don't think it will ever work.

I know all about "pushing through" difficult emotions instead of actually working through them. But I don't think we can ever actually find success if we only work on the behavior and not the feelings and pain that are at the root of that behavior. It makes sense to feel frustrated and lost and angry after a string of relapses, but ease up on yourself. Those relapses are just your brain trying to help (even if it's dead wrong, its intentions are good).

Don't let porn get you down. Focus more on building a happy, satisfying life maybe. Once you get yourself in better headspace, I think it might be easier to deal with the PMO.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 10, 2019, 04:47:44 AM
Blue Heron, I like the perspective. I'll think about it.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 10, 2019, 11:18:15 AM
Day 3

I had to do something extremely stressful.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 10, 2019, 06:58:23 PM
Blue Heron, I like the perspective. I'll think about it.

Glad to hear it! It has really been a helpful perspective for me this year.

Day 3

I had to do something extremely stressful.

I hate doing stressful things, but it's unavoidable. I'll take that you managed to get your stressful task done without needing PMO (since your counter is at 3 and not 0). If that's the case, congratulations! I think it's a big success whenever we can teach our brains that stress, especially extreme stress, is manageable without PMO.

Keep it going! Tomorrow is another new day!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 11, 2019, 04:59:33 AM
I hate doing stressful things, but it's unavoidable. I'll take that you managed to get your stressful task done without needing PMO (since your counter is at 3 and not 0). If that's the case, congratulations! I think it's a big success whenever we can teach our brains that stress, especially extreme stress, is manageable without PMO.

Not only stressful but it involved a lot of anxiety too. However, I didn't run to PMO. I guess I could consider this a little success. In the past, in the middle of doing something stressful I would start thinking about what P to watch when I got home. It's easy to see how P works. It's like when you are a kid, hit your leg, start crying then your mom hugs you. That's what P promises to give you but it never really does: "Come to me and I will hug you and soothe you." And like this, you give away days of well-being for seconds of "soothing".
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 11, 2019, 05:04:01 AM
Day 4

I woke up in the morning and that voice in my head told me it would be fun to fantasizes a little bit. I saw that I constantly had to brush away the fantasies so I got mad and jumped out of the bed. It's annoying when I have to get up earlier than I want but my brain got trained to want edging in the morning and I had to avoid grabbing my dick and jerking off to all those stupid P fantasies. I have basically brought P in the real world. I fantasize about real girls playing in my favorite P scenes.

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Non-Dual Adventurer on July 11, 2019, 11:13:39 AM
Quote
Not only stressful but it involved a lot of anxiety too. However, I didn't run to PMO. I guess I could consider this a little success. In the past, in the middle of doing something stressful I would start thinking about what P to watch when I got home. It's easy to see how P works. It's like when you are a kid, hit your leg, start crying then your mom hugs you. That's what P promises to give you but it never really does: "Come to me and I will hug you and soothe you." And like this, you give away days of well-being for seconds of "soothing".

Wow, that really hit me where it counts, man. You're totally right. I definitely look to be soothed by porn when I'm stressed. I've never thought about it like that before. Thanks for the insight!

Congratulations on getting to Day 4! Those fantasies will pass. Remember what BlueHeron said about accepting that you're having urges and not just trying to distract yourself, but allowing space for them and saying something like 'thank you for the suggestion, but I'm not going to do that now.' It's just your brain's misguided way of trying to help you feel better, but you are aware of it and can observe without acting on it.

- Adventurer
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 11, 2019, 11:25:51 AM
Wow, that really hit me where it counts, man. You're totally right. I definitely look to be soothed by porn when I'm stressed. I've never thought about it like that before. Thanks for the insight!

Congratulations on getting to Day 4! Those fantasies will pass. Remember what BlueHeron said about accepting that you're having urges and not just trying to distract yourself, but allowing space for them and saying something like 'thank you for the suggestion, but I'm not going to do that now.' It's just your brain's misguided way of trying to help you feel better, but you are aware of it and can observe without acting on it.

- Adventurer

Thanks, man. And I'm glad I've helped you.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 11, 2019, 06:27:42 PM
However, I didn't run to PMO. I guess I could consider this a little success.

I woke up in the morning and that voice in my head told me it would be fun to fantasizes a little bit. I saw that I constantly had to brush away the fantasies so I got mad and jumped out of the bed.

You might call it a little success, but I'd say it's still something to celebrate. Between getting through something stressful without PMO's soothing embrace and also getting out of bed instead staying with the fantasies, you're showing yourself that you can do what you need to do to stay clean. You're recognizing that porn is a coping mechanism, and you're getting away from situations where you are most vulnerable.

They might be small successes on their own, but keep doing these small things and you'll end up in a much stronger place.

Congrats on getting through another day! Just focus on getting one more under your belt!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Do or die on July 11, 2019, 09:35:00 PM
Every day you succeed is a every step you follow towards your full reboot. Every 1 day of reboot is important . because your brain rewiring itself, your dopamine receptors is recovered slowly . so be there till full reboot. All the Best.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: squid on July 11, 2019, 09:48:57 PM
You got this Lero!  I believe you have the strength to live how you really really want to. 
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 12, 2019, 05:01:01 AM
You might call it a little success, but I'd say it's still something to celebrate. Between getting through something stressful without PMO's soothing embrace and also getting out of bed instead staying with the fantasies, you're showing yourself that you can do what you need to do to stay clean. You're recognizing that porn is a coping mechanism, and you're getting away from situations where you are most vulnerable.

They might be small successes on their own, but keep doing these small things and you'll end up in a much stronger place.

Congrats on getting through another day! Just focus on getting one more under your belt!

Thanks, bro. I appreciate that.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 12, 2019, 05:01:58 AM
Every day you succeed is a every step you follow towards your full reboot. Every 1 day of reboot is important . because your brain rewiring itself, your dopamine receptors is recovered slowly . so be there till full reboot. All the Best.

Sure, man. Thanks.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 12, 2019, 05:02:49 AM
You got this Lero!  I believe you have the strength to live how you really really want to.

Thanks, man.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 12, 2019, 10:03:54 AM
Day 5

I had the same problem as yesterday: I woke up and got attacked by craving for edging to fantasies and P flashbacks. I had to leave the bed earlier again because I felt like I was tied there, fighting the urge with willpower alone, and it would've been just a matter of time. Once I start, I can't stop and I would've moved to P right away. Anxiety was alright but I had a lot of obsessive thoughts.

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Non-Dual Adventurer on July 12, 2019, 10:40:13 AM
Congrats on walking away, man! I hope that something beautiful happens in your day today, and I hope you experience your mind quieten. In the infinite empty space of your consciousness, may you experience deep peace. May that peace not be lacking in anything, and may it not be wanting either. May you experience a happiness that is beyond and before all opposites or duality.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 12, 2019, 02:22:59 PM
Congrats on walking away, man! I hope that something beautiful happens in your day today, and I hope you experience your mind quieten. In the infinite empty space of your consciousness, may you experience deep peace. May that peace not be lacking in anything, and may it not be wanting either. May you experience a happiness that is beyond and before all opposites or duality.

Thanks, bro. I appreciate.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 12, 2019, 02:25:26 PM
5th day ends without problems. Last time I relapsed on the 5th day.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 12, 2019, 06:01:37 PM
Way to go!

The more we flirt with urges, the stronger they get. Really proud of you for putting that garbage in it's place and getting out of bed and getting through the day.

5 days is awesome (and measurable progress since your last relapse). You're right: once those urges set in, it's only a matter of time, so don't give them the time!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 13, 2019, 03:30:59 AM
Way to go!

The more we flirt with urges, the stronger they get. Really proud of you for putting that garbage in it's place and getting out of bed and getting through the day.

5 days is awesome (and measurable progress since your last relapse). You're right: once those urges set in, it's only a matter of time, so don't give them the time!

Thanks, bro. I appreciate it.

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 13, 2019, 03:56:47 AM
Day 6

I feel kind of... apathetic? I have no urges yet. My energy is pretty low and my mood too.

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: achilles heel on July 13, 2019, 06:05:51 AM
Congratulations on almost completing the first week, you pulled yourself out of the abyss once again and that's awesome!  :)

If your energy is really low, force yourself to do some tasks that don't require lots of physical or mental effort, like washing dishes or doing something in the household. The feeling of getting things done can help you activate your motivation to do other things as well.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 13, 2019, 09:21:51 AM
If your energy is really low, force yourself to do some tasks that don't require lots of physical or mental effort, like washing dishes or doing something in the household. The feeling of getting things done can help you activate your motivation to do other things as well.

Thanks for advice, man! I'll try that. And thanks for the support.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: squid on July 13, 2019, 12:36:06 PM
We are on the same day Lero!  My energy levels are also low and My urges are pretty weak.  I'm definitely in a flatline.  Exercising for 30 minutes a day has helped me get more energy.  We got this man!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 13, 2019, 01:42:48 PM
We are on the same day Lero!  My energy levels are also low and My urges are pretty weak.  I'm definitely in a flatline.  Exercising for 30 minutes a day has helped me get more energy.  We got this man!

Sure, man. Let's go all the way.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 13, 2019, 01:43:45 PM
The 6th day ends without problems. Last time I reached the 6th day with edging but this time I didn't.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 13, 2019, 06:20:00 PM
Awesome stuff!

A certain level of apathy has been hanging over me for the last few months of recovery. It's a pain, but part of me is convinced it's just the kind of apathy and blah-feeling that I used to hide with PMO, so I'm feeling it full-force now. The pain of progress, I guess.

Keep edging and all the rest far away, and make it through another day! Rooting for you to finish the week strong!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Do or die on July 14, 2019, 01:31:29 AM
Go towards freedom man. Little bit apathy is there hand there till it not go.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 14, 2019, 04:50:36 AM
1 week

Thanks everyone for the replies.

Today I have 1 week without PMO, without edging and without peeking, something that I haven't accomplished in a long time. Last time I reached 1 week but with edging.

Today I woke up to hard urges. The hardest this week. My balls were like concrete. Every inch in my body felt like PMO would be the greatest idea, that the pleasure would be awesome. The rational part of me was the only one that said: "No, you must not PMO and you know why." But I had to leave the bed earlier again to avoid edging and it sucks because today is Sunday and I didn't want to. It's rainy outside too. I felt like I was stuck inside. I went to the kitchen then came here to write this, trying to distract myself from all the P flashbacks that bombarded my mind and gave me a rush of arousal. I must not concentrate on them because it's like playing with fire. Sooner or later I'll burn myself up. I also had to stay away from watching some movies and TV series because they contained triggers. Everything is a trigger for me right now. Even words. I hear/read words and they remind me of words said in the dialog of P scenes. I even visualize the scenes and I get a rush of arousal. I hear/read names and they remind me of P actresses.

I'll try to find something to do today so I could be away from getting lost in my head and thinking about P all day. Peace brothers. The next checkpoint is 10 days. We have to make quitting P the number 1 priority and do everything it takes to make it happen.

Every day without P teaches us that we can stay away from it. Every time we go through urges, it teaches us that we know what to do. We have to keep doing it even if it sucks. Just keep moving. It's like walking down the road while the wind blows hard. You just have to keep walking.

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 14, 2019, 01:48:24 PM
Day 7 ends with problems. I edged for about half an hour. I had very hard urges and I couldn't control myself. FUCK! I stopped myself before O. I don't even know if edging is considered a relapse. God damn! I can't believe this, man!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: zander13 on July 14, 2019, 01:58:39 PM
I'm here to deliver some sobering truth: edging is what you're addicted to, not the orgasm. Edging is the larger of the two demons. It's the one that you should focus your energy on harpooning. Edging is keeping those dopamine levels jacked up. That's the high. The orgasm isn't good either, trust me, but edging is something that should be avoided always.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I've learned all of this info the hard way. Edging is just another way of saying binge-ing, which is another word to say "using". I've edged my way into an oblivion in the past, and every time I relapse, I edge for hours on end. Until the orgasm becomes a sad little act where I mercifully cum into a used Aquafina bottle and finally decide to re-enter reality. Avoid this behavior.

On another note, the first 14 days are the toughest when it comes to abstinence. Getting through those first two weeks is as much a matter of luck as anything. You gotta resort to a "whatever it takes" mindset.

After the first couple weeks, it becomes more of a "can I endure these withdrawals?" Which is something that only each individual person can answer for themselves.

Hope all this helps.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 14, 2019, 02:07:31 PM
I'm here to deliver some sobering truth: edging is what you're addicted to, not the orgasm. Edging is the larger of the two demons. It's the one that you should focus your energy on harpooning. Edging is keeping those dopamine levels jacked up. That's the high. The orgasm isn't good either, trust me, but edging is something that should be avoided always.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I've learned all of this info the hard way. Edging is just another way of saying binge-ing, which is another word to say "using". I've edged my way into an oblivion in the past, and every time I relapse, I edge for hours on end. Until the orgasm becomes a sad little act where I mercifully cum into a used Aquafina bottle and finally decide to re-enter reality. Avoid this behavior.

On another note, the first 14 days are the toughest when it comes to abstinence. Getting through those first two weeks is as much a matter of luck as anything. You gotta resort to a "whatever it takes" mindset.

After the first couple weeks, it becomes more of a "can I endure these withdrawals?" Which is something that only each individual person can answer for themselves.

Hope all this helps.

Thanks, man. Yeah, this makes sense. Fuck. At least I didn't edge for too long. I can't believe this.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 14, 2019, 07:01:29 PM
Yeah, I think zander13 is exactly right.

For the last couple years, my relapses were almost 100% PM and no O (or accidental O). I used to give myself a pat on the back and like I was okay as long as I didn't O, but I was still completely caught in an addictive cycle, and my binges were way worse because I could edge for hours and hours without ever stopping. O was even a disappointment because it meant I was basically done for a while. All that to say, edging is not okay just because there's no O. There isn't like a cutoff where something is okay vs not okay: as long as it's something we keep coming back to compulsively, it's part of an addiction and we have to give it up. For a long time, too, I wasn't even really using porn, not anything with nudity or sex, but I was still edging for hours on end every few weeks while watching sexy stuff online. Looking back, I'm not sure how I could ever think that was any better than straight-up PMO. It's all the same garbage.

But, hey, you made it through a week, and now you know you can! And if you can do it once, you can do it again. Focus on doing what worked and avoiding whatever it was that tripped you up this time. I know how intense and relentless those urges can be, but they do pass if you let them. Focus on something else and keep yourself busy on something good while they rage. I always, always caved when they got intense, but it has been a huge turning point for me when I actually experienced the urges die down. It took a couple of days of being sort of zombie while they were bad, but they finally went away for a while and I learned that I could outlast them. I'm not going to say experiencing that once will fix things forever, but I think it will make a difference. Urges, even really strong ones, eventually give up if we ignore them.

Tomorrow's a new day! Start fresh and stay strong!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: squid on July 14, 2019, 10:15:18 PM
You got this Lero!  Go for another 7, you just did it and can do it again.  Be careful about the chaser, it's a killer.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 15, 2019, 01:20:04 AM
Yeah, I think zander13 is exactly right.

For the last couple years, my relapses were almost 100% PM and no O (or accidental O). I used to give myself a pat on the back and like I was okay as long as I didn't O, but I was still completely caught in an addictive cycle, and my binges were way worse because I could edge for hours and hours without ever stopping. O was even a disappointment because it meant I was basically done for a while. All that to say, edging is not okay just because there's no O. There isn't like a cutoff where something is okay vs not okay: as long as it's something we keep coming back to compulsively, it's part of an addiction and we have to give it up. For a long time, too, I wasn't even really using porn, not anything with nudity or sex, but I was still edging for hours on end every few weeks while watching sexy stuff online. Looking back, I'm not sure how I could ever think that was any better than straight-up PMO. It's all the same garbage.

But, hey, you made it through a week, and now you know you can! And if you can do it once, you can do it again. Focus on doing what worked and avoiding whatever it was that tripped you up this time. I know how intense and relentless those urges can be, but they do pass if you let them. Focus on something else and keep yourself busy on something good while they rage. I always, always caved when they got intense, but it has been a huge turning point for me when I actually experienced the urges die down. It took a couple of days of being sort of zombie while they were bad, but they finally went away for a while and I learned that I could outlast them. I'm not going to say experiencing that once will fix things forever, but I think it will make a difference. Urges, even really strong ones, eventually give up if we ignore them.

Tomorrow's a new day! Start fresh and stay strong!

You know what's funny? I don't feel any relapse repercussions. I woke up and had the same kind of urges like yesterday morning. And I also feel like I'm energized, like I function on batteries. I edged for a little bit yesterday, not hours. It was like 15 minutes or whatever, I don't know, I didn't count. I'm not saying it was alright, but I was able to stop once the urges went away. I started edging, had intense arousal then it just died after about 5 minutes and I stopped too. Then a few hours later, the same thing happened. I started edging, I got aroused but then after about 5 minutes it disappeared and I stopped again. In the past I didn't use to do this. I would keep edging over and over again for hours, despise the arousal going away almost completely. I mean, there was some small noticeable trace of arousal but I said: "This is not intense enough for me to keep edging". And I quit. I don't know, I don't want to consider it a relapse because I don't feel like that. I actually feel pretty good, and I know how a relapse kills me. I will keep the counter going and try to avoid doing this shit. I did a stupid thing yesterday and I shouldn't have to.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 15, 2019, 01:21:48 AM
You got this Lero!  Go for another 7, you just did it and can do it again.  Be careful about the chaser, it's a killer.

Man, I don't even feel like I relapsed. I feel like I usually feel when I don't.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 15, 2019, 01:42:50 AM
Day 8

I woke up early and started craving edging in bed but I handled it too well. It was scary how well I did it. I lied there, looked at the craving and said: "You know, this is you again, my addicted side. The only way you know how to handle this is by taking the fix. But I'm here with the thinking and I'll help you however I can. I can't give you any fix, though."

I felt this extra energy, like I had new batteries or something.

Some of the "old feelings" are starting to come back. I am not completely numb anymore. Things are going too well now for me to relapse and spoil everything. Sure, maybe my mood will fluctuate in the following days. I write how I feel everyday as a record of my recovery.

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: squid on July 15, 2019, 07:18:30 AM
Day 8

I woke up early and started craving edging in bed but I handled it too well. It was scary how well I did it. I lied there, looked at the craving and said: "You know, this is you again, my addicted side. The only way you know how to handle this is by taking the fix. But I'm here with the thinking and I'll help you however I can. I can't give you any fix, though."

I felt this extra energy, like I had new batteries or something.

Some of the "old feelings" are starting to come back. I am not completely numb anymore. Things are going too well now for me to relapse and spoil everything. Sure, maybe my mood will fluctuate in the following days. I write how I feel everyday as a record of my recovery.

Nice work Lero!  Sending good vibes your way
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 15, 2019, 10:08:59 AM
Nice work Lero!  Sending good vibes your way

Thanks, man. I appreciate that you are with me.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 15, 2019, 10:11:40 AM
If you quit now, you will go back to day 0. And on day 0, you were desperate to be where you are now.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Pete McVries on July 15, 2019, 11:29:43 AM
Hey Lero,

thanks for your kind comment in my journal! 

I haven't had the time to read through your journal yet, but I'll do so in the upcoming days. I hope you find a way to beat the addiction. One of the fundamentals (in my experience) is finding a way to quit the nasty habit of peeking. Peeking leads to edging and that is, as Zander rightfully pointed out, the worst you can do. Even if you only peek for a few seconds, once you've peeked, you'll peek again and again until you finally fully give in to the urges. And it keeps the addiction alive. Perhaps you can find a replacement activity you can start doing far far away from the computer/smartphone once you get an urge to look at porn. Is there anything to do outside where you live? Is there a library nearby? A place to workout? Something like this...

Wishing you all the best!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 15, 2019, 12:28:20 PM
Hey Lero,

thanks for your kind comment in my journal! 

I haven't had the time to read through your journal yet, but I'll do so in the upcoming days. I hope you find a way to beat the addiction. One of the fundamentals (in my experience) is finding a way to quit the nasty habit of peeking. Peeking leads to edging and that is, as Zander rightfully pointed out, the worst you can do. Even if you only peek for a few seconds, once you've peeked, you'll peek again and again until you finally fully give in to the urges. And it keeps the addiction alive. Perhaps you can find a replacement activity you can start doing far far away from the computer/smartphone once you get an urge to look at porn. Is there anything to do outside where you live? Is there a library nearby? A place to workout? Something like this...

Wishing you all the best!

Pete, thanks for visiting my page! Your triple digits streak is an inspiration for me.

I understand what you're saying about peeking. It's the truth. I've been trying to notice every little thing that I've been using for a dopamine release. It started with, obviously, "No P" but I didn't think looking at pictures or Youtube videos was bad. Then I learned I shouldn't have done this either so I tried to stay away from those too but then I noticed how I looked for other things that I considered "harmless", like: "Let's see when this actress started making P movies. There is no picture on that website, it's just a bank with movie titles so I'm alright." Or checking out fleshlights and other stupid shit like that. It was my brain trying to make me give it dopamine in any way possible and it took me a while to notice all the patterns. I even read literature, for example, thinking that my imagination was harmless. But anything I use for a dopamine fix is not alright. Anything I use in the way I use P. If P is the "absinthe" of dopamine release, of course there is "wine" too. And it's not like you could switch absinthe for wine when you are an alcoholic and say you are alright. We have to treat this with urgent seriousness. Staying away from all forms of drug just as you would stay away from any form of alcohol.


Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 15, 2019, 04:31:24 PM
I feel like I'm starting to deal with things better. Like all of a sudden things are becoming clear in my head. I had a lot of frustration and confusion about the fact that I knew what to do but I kept walking in the middle of the problems. Yesterday I did a stupid thing and edged for about 15 minutes total. After that, I kind of had a revelation about urges. I woke up this morning to a wave of hard urges but it was like I could see past them. I don't know, I hope things really start moving for me because in a few days it's my 2 months celebration on this forum. It's the right time for some success. For the cake (the cake is a lie). Anyway, good luck to everyone who's been struggling and to everyone who's had success.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 15, 2019, 07:58:20 PM
Glad to hear you're feeling a little clearer and re-energized! Use that clarity and make some good plans for fending off the next wave of urges whenever they come. Stay careful (obviously): sometimes I have experienced "enlightened" feelings after a lapse just because I'm high on dopamine again. But it's good to use that sense of determination to really make some progress!

Keep at it!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 16, 2019, 03:06:39 AM
Glad to hear you're feeling a little clearer and re-energized! Use that clarity and make some good plans for fending off the next wave of urges whenever they come. Stay careful (obviously): sometimes I have experienced "enlightened" feelings after a lapse just because I'm high on dopamine again. But it's good to use that sense of determination to really make some progress!

Keep at it!

Thanks, man.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: squid on July 16, 2019, 06:36:43 AM
Nice work Lero!  Keep it up
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 16, 2019, 07:02:50 AM
Nice work Lero!  Keep it up

Thanks, man!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 16, 2019, 07:08:07 AM
Day 9

I feel a little bit apathetic. I didn't have the same energy in the morning in comparison to yesterday. Urges started a few hours later but they had a lower intensity than the last 2 days.

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: dusty on July 16, 2019, 07:56:37 AM
Such a great progress Lero, keep going :D
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 16, 2019, 10:17:00 AM
Such a great progress Lero, keep going :D

Thanks, man. You are doing awesome too.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 16, 2019, 01:47:25 PM
I haven't had a 9 days streak in a very long time. Today I had to save myself from my mind. P thoughts gave me a rush of arousal and made me think: "Oh, man, this feels so good! I want to PMO so bad!" The only thing that saved me was doing "therapy" with myself. I visualized a relapse. I tried to even feel how I would feel if I relapsed. I thought how I would think after a relapse. And then I said to myself: "After the last relapse, I was desperate to be where I am now." This flipped something in my head. P thoughts continued to bother me but they lost some of their power. The rest of the day was easier than yesterday. 
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: squid on July 16, 2019, 02:55:01 PM
I haven't had a 9 days streak in a very long time. Today I had to save myself from my mind. P thoughts gave me a rush of arousal and made me think: "Oh, man, this feels so good! I want to PMO so bad!" The only thing that saved me was doing "therapy" with myself. I visualized a relapse. I tried to even feel how I would feel if I relapsed. I thought how I would think after a relapse. And then I said to myself: "After the last relapse, I was desperate to be where I am now." This flipped something in my head. P thoughts continued to bother me but they lost some of their power. The rest of the day was easier than yesterday.

That's phenomenal!  You were aware and chose a different choice.  Powerful place to be my friend.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: achilles heel on July 16, 2019, 04:23:04 PM
"After the last relapse, I was desperate to be where I am now."

Great thought, really motivating and a reminder of staying aware. Keep going!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 16, 2019, 05:23:38 PM
Way to be with giving yourself therapy! That's a great idea. At the end of the day, urges are just thoughts and feelings, and those can't actually hurt us. Taking a moment to step outside our thoughts and actually think through what we're feeling can do a lot to take the heat off us.

Keep doing exactly that, putting those urges in their place and letting them roll off your back like the harmless thoughts they are.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Do or die on July 16, 2019, 10:57:28 PM
I haven't had a 9 days streak in a very long time. Today I had to save myself from my mind. P thoughts gave me a rush of arousal and made me think: "Oh, man, this feels so good! I want to PMO so bad!" The only thing that saved me was doing "therapy" with myself. I visualized a relapse. I tried to even feel how I would feel if I relapsed. I thought how I would think after a relapse. And then I said to myself: "After the last relapse, I was desperate to be where I am now." This flipped something in my head. P thoughts continued to bother me but they lost some of their power. The rest of the day was easier than yesterday.
I am also at day 15 after long time. And at this stage i facing so many urges.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 17, 2019, 02:12:31 AM
Day 10

I want to thank everybody who wrote replies since last time I was here. Good luck to you.

Man, I don't even remember when I had a 10 days streak last time. This year is the first time. First time in 7 months. Almost 2 weeks. This is my next checkpoint. The last one was 10 days. Smaller milestones are less scary.


Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Non-Dual Adventurer on July 17, 2019, 11:17:25 AM
Hey man, thank you for the kind words on my journal and congratulations on reaching 10 days! Stay balanced like you have been and keep taking it each day at a time, and you'll be golden!

- Adventurer
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 17, 2019, 12:28:21 PM
Hey man, thank you for the kind words on my journal and congratulations on reaching 10 days! Stay balanced like you have been and keep taking it each day at a time, and you'll be golden!

- Adventurer

Thanks, man. I appreciate your constant support.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 17, 2019, 12:34:14 PM
Today was a hard day. It's the beginning of a very stressful period that I don't know when it's going to end. My anxiety was also elevated a lot. I had brutal urges too.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: squid on July 17, 2019, 01:06:45 PM
Today was a hard day. It's the beginning of a very stressful period that I don't know when it's going to end. My anxiety was also elevated a lot. I had brutal urges too.

Hang the fuxk in there Lero, you are doing so well.  The urges and anxiety will pass, keep doing things that make you feel good about yourself.  Maybe try volunteering.  You know a lot of tactics, just hold fast man, read your journal and see how far you've come.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 17, 2019, 02:47:14 PM
Hang the fuxk in there Lero, you are doing so well.  The urges and anxiety will pass, keep doing things that make you feel good about yourself.  Maybe try volunteering.  You know a lot of tactics, just hold fast man, read your journal and see how far you've come.

Thanks, man. Thanks for the constant support. I will be going through a stressful period in my life but I will not use P as self-medication because... It doesn't heal anything. Anything that doesn't heal you is useless.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 17, 2019, 06:30:55 PM
Almost 2 weeks. This is my next checkpoint. The last one was 10 days. Smaller milestones are less scary.

Smaller milestones are the way to go, man! When I first started here, I thought was going to just go 100 days because it was slightly longer than I ever remember going. But it was way longer than I was normally going between relapses. Setting a smaller goal and then leapfrogging from one smaller goal to the next was way more doable. If you're already at 10 days, and you only need to make it to 14 until you reach your next goal, it's way easier to hang on through the urges for a few more days. If you felt like you had to deal with them for another 76, though, that would be way harder to pull off successfully (at least that's how it was for me).

Keep doing what you're doing, man, and learning along the way! Now you know that you don't need PMO to deal with stress and that you can make it through a round of intense urges. Use that knowledge and make your way to your next milestone!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 18, 2019, 02:36:12 AM
Smaller milestones are the way to go, man! When I first started here, I thought was going to just go 100 days because it was slightly longer than I ever remember going. But it was way longer than I was normally going between relapses. Setting a smaller goal and then leapfrogging from one smaller goal to the next was way more doable. If you're already at 10 days, and you only need to make it to 14 until you reach your next goal, it's way easier to hang on through the urges for a few more days. If you felt like you had to deal with them for another 76, though, that would be way harder to pull off successfully (at least that's how it was for me).

Keep doing what you're doing, man, and learning along the way! Now you know that you don't need PMO to deal with stress and that you can make it through a round of intense urges. Use that knowledge and make your way to your next milestone!

Thanks for your constant support, man. You're doing great too.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 18, 2019, 09:32:40 AM
Day 11

I'm struggling. Urges have been brutal today. A torture. I didn't expect it to be this way. It's a miracle that I haven't edged or even peeked at anything. The brain tries in any way possible to make me push the dopamine button. Memories, of the times when I had so much fun with P and I didn't have to worry about it, remind me of what I'm missing. My brain literally does an unbelievable good job at convincing me P will be the greatest idea. Flashbacks, fetishes and fantasies bombard my mind in rapid succesion like a machine gun, telling me violently that I need to activate the dopamine explosion. "Do it already! Look at this! And at this! Does it feel good? Isn't it that it feels good? What the fuck are you waiting for?" There is a voice in my mind that talks to me like that.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: squid on July 18, 2019, 10:49:59 AM
Day 11

I'm struggling. Urges have been brutal today. A torture. I didn't expect it to be this way. It's a miracle that I haven't edged or even peeked at anything. The brain tries in any way possible to make me push the dopamine button. Memories, of the times when I had so much fun with P and I didn't have to worry about it, remind me of what I'm missing. My brain literally does an unbelievable good job at convincing me P will be the greatest idea. Flashbacks, fetishes and fantasies bombard my mind in rapid succesion like a machine gun, telling me violently that I need to activate the dopamine explosion. "Do it already! Look at this! And at this! Does it feel good? Isn't it that it feels good? What the fuck are you waiting for?" There is a voice in my mind that talks to me like that.

Read your old journal posts and remember what happens after a relapse, it's horridly painful.  When you stay the course these urges will pass and you will be happy you didn't go down the road you know doesn't work.  Take that urge for dopamine and go out and do something you want to do but have been afraid to commit to.  You. can  do. it.  Sending good vibes
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 18, 2019, 11:02:51 AM
Read your old journal posts and remember what happens after a relapse, it's horridly painful.

This is the only thing that keeps me alive. I had 1000 impulses to PMO but everytime I stopped and re-evaluated the whole situation. If this had been 10 years ago, when I was so happy to PMO all day, today would've been a marathon. 
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 18, 2019, 11:49:00 AM
Motivational for myself:

1) When you see a trigger, get mad. Say to yourself or even out loud: "No, no, no, I'm not your client anymore! I know what you try to do with this video/picture but I don't give a fuck anymore. I will not continue to be an addict because of you!" Be disgusted with P. Look away in disgust, make a disgusted face.

2) Anytime the desire for PMO kicks in, stop and think. Visualize a relapse. Feel it. See how you feel when you relapse. See how you think after a relapse. If you noticed changes during the streak, think about this too. Say to yourself or even out loud: "I will not throw away the benefits! I will not go back to how I feel after a relapse!"



Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: achilles heel on July 18, 2019, 03:04:39 PM
Keep yourself busy, avoid being home alone, keep your devices as far away as possible if you don't really need them for the moment! You got this and you will advance further! This will pass, just stay strong!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Pete McVries on July 18, 2019, 04:47:41 PM
Keep yourself busy, avoid being home alone, keep your devices as far away as possible if you don't really need them for the moment! You got this and you will advance further! This will pass, just stay strong!

This. Spend as much time away from screens as possible. Or go to a library or a public place if you want to use the internet. In general, use the internet for a certain purpose. Avoid using the internet mindlessly at all costs! Fill your days with productive, enjoyable and healthy activities. Stroll through a park, read in nature, go take a hike, just lie on the grass for hours and let your thoughts fly away (https://youtu.be/M0JndWlrxJM). Daydreaming is actually a very healthy activity because it helps the brain sort your thoughts. Daydreaming ≠ fantasizing about porn  ;)
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: rob24 on July 18, 2019, 05:53:32 PM
Motivational for myself:

1) When you see a trigger, get mad. Say to yourself or even out loud: "No, no, no, I'm not your client anymore! I know what you try to do with this video/picture but I don't give a fuck anymore. I will not continue to be an addict because of you!" Be disgusted with P. Look away in disgust, make a disgusted face.

2) Anytime the desire for PMO kicks in, stop and think. Visualize a relapse. Feel it. See how you feel when you relapse. See how you think after a relapse. If you noticed changes during the streak, think about this too. Say to yourself or even out loud: "I will not throw away the benefits! I will not go back to how I feel after a relapse!"

This is a great idea - I might use this. Thanks for sharing! And we're here rooting for you. One thing that's helping me over the last couple days is to plug in my streak to the Rewire Companion app and see how many people I've already made it past in my commitment (trust me, it's as easy to get from day 1-10 as it is to get from 11-30, and it just goes from there)! Maybe this would help to visually track progress?
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 18, 2019, 06:24:15 PM
Keep it going, man! Hard days are to be expected. You're still on track!

I always had the feeling that looking at porn was fun and free. Like, oh, how free to be surfing the porn sites and edging! If I could have watched myself being "free," I'm sure it would have turned my stomach how trapped I was. It does turn my stomach. Those urges and little messages from my brain were flat out lies. Porn is not freedom.

Definitely keep yourself focused on doing and thinking about better things. Accept the urges as a fact of life, but don't waste your attention on them. They will give up much quicker than you if you just put your attention on something else.

Just a couple more days. 2 weeks is so close!

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 19, 2019, 01:18:36 AM
Thanks guys for the support and advice. It means a lot to me. I would've relapsed already if it hadn't been for this place. It's like: "I want to PMO so bad but I can't let these guys down who've been showing me support." I'll try to keep pushing through the wind.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 19, 2019, 02:39:39 PM
Day 12

I don't think I'm at the point where I could go day by day without doing anything wrong. In these 12 days, I ended up edging 4 times, however not for a long period of time. About 10 minutes each time. I can't say I like this. I almost relapsed twice. I saw that I couldn't control my impulse for indulging in stimulation.

On the other hand, if we look at how I used to do things (edge for hours, binge every 4 days), I've come a long way. Only edging for 10 minutes at once, no PMO and no binge in 12 days. It hasn't been a perfect 12 days but I'm doing things better than ever. I've been trying to quit P for years but I feel like only now I'm really doing it and I feel like I'm at the beginning of the journey, when mistakes could happen. Maybe I'm overthinking this because it's the first time in a very long time when I have a 12 days streak and I don't want to fuck it up.

I don't know how much those small edging sessions affected me, I hope not too much. I really need to go on this time because I hate starting from day 1 again and having to wait 12 days to get back here.

Anxiety has been a big problem for me. I also need to take care of something stressful.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 20, 2019, 04:33:42 AM
Day 13

It's weekend and I need to be careful. It's easy to say: "I had a hard week so I deserve some rest," and then start thinking about P all day.

It's hard and it takes some time until my brain will detrain from P. Right now, I feel like P occupies the biggest part of my mind. P flashbacks and fantasies invade my mind constantly. They sneak in unnoticed and before I know, I am "looking" at them. I do something and Boom! all of a sudden I am bothered by P. I don't even think about it intentionally but it still comes to me. However, I'm starting to notice every trick and pattern. It's easier to get out of it. I am waiting for the day when P will not be needed anymore in my mind. Tomorrow I will complete a 2 weeks streak and 2 months on this forum, at the same time. Crazy, huh? Maybe this is a sign. I'm trying to put behind me the annoyance of having edged a little bit yesterday and a few days ago. I have this tendency to make a big deal out of something smaller. Maybe I will come at the end of the day to write some update.

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Do or die on July 20, 2019, 04:37:18 AM
You are in very difficult situation from day 13 to day 16
I experienced large urges. Not able to sleep overnight.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Do or die on July 20, 2019, 04:40:09 AM
Be still . don't relapse at any  cost. Keep going you can do it.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 20, 2019, 04:40:35 AM
You are in very difficult situation from day 13 to day 16
I experienced large urges. Not able to sleep overnight.

I went through the most brutal urges on day 11. What's worse than this? I can handle anything now.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 20, 2019, 02:23:05 PM
Okay, so I said I would probably write an update. Here is the update: Today was great. Low urges that didn't bother me. Man, if things went this way... wow, I would love this. I had brutal urges on day 11. I either do it this time or at all. I don't want to start from day 1 again. Patience has never been a quality of mine. I'm too far. Tomorrow will be 2 weeks. I need all the help in the world now. I haven't had 2 weeks in maybe more than a year. I really need this.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: squid on July 20, 2019, 05:18:43 PM
Okay, so I said I would probably write an update. Here is the update: Today was great. Low urges that didn't bother me. Man, if things went this way... wow, I would love this. I had brutal urges on day 11. I either do it this time or at all. I don't want to start from day 1 again. Patience has never been a quality of mine. I'm too far. Tomorrow will be 2 weeks. I need all the help in the world now. I haven't had 2 weeks in maybe more than a year. I really need this.

You got this Lero!  Focus on the goal and keep making progress.  Treat yourself to something inspiring.  I just watched the Apollo 11 new movie, highly recommended.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 20, 2019, 11:13:39 PM
Yes, keep it going! You're making great progress, and there's lots of exciting progress ahead!

I think it's awesome that you're becoming more aware of your thoughts and the tricks that your brain is playing on you. It makes such a huge difference to be able to step out of your own head and just see those urges for what they are, ideas that you can safely ignore.

Keep doing that and sticking to what you know you need to do, and you'll be at 2 weeks before you know it!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 21, 2019, 11:19:23 AM
I relapsed. I played with fire. I didn't follow the plan as I knew I should've. I was too arrogant to think I could make it work like that.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: squid on July 21, 2019, 11:52:23 AM
I relapsed. I played with fire. I didn't follow the plan as I knew I should've. I was too arrogant to think I could make it work like that.

Take a deep breath Lero, and be ready for the chaser.  Don't follow the chaser, get back on track, you can do it! 

Without triggers if possible, walk us through what happened and what you think you did right during the past two weeks and where can you improve going forward.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 21, 2019, 01:39:59 PM
Take a deep breath Lero, and be ready for the chaser.  Don't follow the chaser, get back on track, you can do it! 

Without triggers if possible, walk us through what happened and what you think you did right during the past two weeks and where can you improve going forward.

I haven't been disciplined enough. I indulged too much in fantasizing without switching the focus. I allowed myself to feed the dopamine through thinking about P too much. Then I edged and drank again, knowing that those are the biggest dangers for me. On the days when I was strict with myself, I did well. On days when I wasn't, I didn't.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Do or die on July 21, 2019, 01:55:06 PM
I relapsed. I played with fire. I didn't follow the plan as I knew I should've. I was too arrogant to think I could make it work like that.
Lero don't feel guilty.  Keep in mind that you are just one step ahead.  Today I am at day 20 because is just ignored urges successfully.  And before this success I never thinked that i would do such type of reboot.
So first thing you need to understand is that your recovery is possible from now.  Again start from day 1. Learn from this relapse and motivate yourself.
I know,  you can do it.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 21, 2019, 11:31:03 PM
Sorry to hear it, man, but this can still be a valuable learning experience so don't lose sight of that.

I have definitely experienced that arrogant feeling that makes it seem easier or more okay to fantasize and edge, etc. It's so important to realize that the length of the streak does not make us more immune to triggers. 12 days clean or 120, we can relapse just as easily. It's one thing to talk about and another thing to experience.

It's a bummer to lose a streak, but it doesn't have to hurt as much if you treat every day like Day 1. Start again tomorrow and commit to being more disciplined with your thoughts and little dopamine fixes. None of us can afford to entertain the little things like fantasies and edging. Maybe they aren't PMO, but they are a one-way ticket there.

Get back to it and keep on going!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 22, 2019, 12:49:05 PM
Day 1

I need to start being more strict with myself.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: rob24 on July 22, 2019, 01:00:22 PM
Sorry to hear about the relapse man. Good on you for getting right back on it though! Don't follow the chaser as squid mentioned above. If you follow the chaser, you're subconsciously reinforcing the behavior more, according to this article I read (see "extinction burst") https://gettingstronger.org/psychology/. If anything, I find it more inspiring that you get right back up, as I've fallen for the chaser so many times. And thanks for your warning about the fantasizing. Currently coming into day 12 and starting to feel a resurgence without the feeling that I'm gaining so many new benefits. I've been feeling really needy and fantasizing a lot about girls in real life like you mentioned. Never forget that your making it into the teens did a little work for rewiring your neural pathways, and whatever goal you set next for real freedom is just a little bit closer now. Good luck!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 22, 2019, 11:11:25 PM
Day 1

I need to start being more strict with myself.

And thanks for your warning about the fantasizing. Currently coming into day 12 and starting to feel a resurgence without the feeling that I'm gaining so many new benefits. I've been feeling really needy and fantasizing a lot about girls in real life like you mentioned. Never forget that your making it into the teens did a little work for rewiring your neural pathways, and whatever goal you set next for real freedom is just a little bit closer now. Good luck!

Super glad you're getting right back on track! The only time we really fail is when we stop trying.

I think you're right to want to be more strict with yourself: part of my recovery this year has really been focused on cutting out the smaller harmful behaviors (like fantasizing). I hear people say that fantasizing about real girls is somehow okay because it's about real girls, but it's still fantasizing (which, obviously, isn't real). It's very easy to come up for reasons why one thing or another is okay, but the fact of the matter is that anything that triggers our dopamine pathway just reinforces the addiction. I think strict (in terms of cutting out any dopamine trigger) is the way to go.

But I also think it's important to find a self-supportive way to be strict. Don't just grit your teeth and hold on through willpower (because that will only lead to eventual failure). Remember that our addictions fill some unmet need in our lives and cover over some kind of unresolved or reoccurring pain. Keep reflecting on why you turn to PMO and working on addressing the real problem that motivates relapses. Long term success is probably only sustainable if you're really taking care of the underlying problem. Otherwise it's just a matter of time before your suffering brain talks you into another dopamine fix.

On to better days!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: rob24 on July 23, 2019, 07:27:32 AM
Day 1

I need to start being more strict with myself.

And thanks for your warning about the fantasizing. Currently coming into day 12 and starting to feel a resurgence without the feeling that I'm gaining so many new benefits. I've been feeling really needy and fantasizing a lot about girls in real life like you mentioned. Never forget that your making it into the teens did a little work for rewiring your neural pathways, and whatever goal you set next for real freedom is just a little bit closer now. Good luck!

Super glad you're getting right back on track! The only time we really fail is when we stop trying.

I think you're right to want to be more strict with yourself: part of my recovery this year has really been focused on cutting out the smaller harmful behaviors (like fantasizing). I hear people say that fantasizing about real girls is somehow okay because it's about real girls, but it's still fantasizing (which, obviously, isn't real). It's very easy to come up for reasons why one thing or another is okay, but the fact of the matter is that anything that triggers our dopamine pathway just reinforces the addiction. I think strict (in terms of cutting out any dopamine trigger) is the way to go.

But I also think it's important to find a self-supportive way to be strict. Don't just grit your teeth and hold on through willpower (because that will only lead to eventual failure). Remember that our addictions fill some unmet need in our lives and cover over some kind of unresolved or reoccurring pain. Keep reflecting on why you turn to PMO and working on addressing the real problem that motivates relapses. Long term success is probably only sustainable if you're really taking care of the underlying problem. Otherwise it's just a matter of time before your suffering brain talks you into another dopamine fix.

On to better days!

Good calls on this Heron. I always found it difficult and vague to try to eliminate thoughts since they are semi-involuntary at times, though it's helped me to think "STOP" whenever I start to drift off and start fantasizing. I can improve by not voluntarily drifting into fantasy-land. It almost feels like, once you gain control of these smaller harmful behaviors, like you name them, you gain a sort of second line of defense from returning to PMO, you know?
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 23, 2019, 08:10:56 AM
Day 2

I want to thank anyone who wrote replies. Being there for me means a lot to me.

I relapsed because I was not strict enough with myself. I was full of myself and thought I could handle anything therefore I didn't need to be "that prepared". I was like an undifited boxing champion. For 5 years he beat anyone so he started thinking: "Okay, I don't really need to train that hard cause I could beat those guys anyway". He didn't take it seriously anymore, he shifted a gear down on his training and the next guy took his title. This was me, metaphorically speaking in a fight against P. I let myself fantasize too much. I didn't shift the focus. Then I made the mistake to "edge a little bit", saying to myself that I could handle a minute of edging and it would not have any impact on my recovery. I realized how stupid I was when I "woke up" on the couch, with sperm on my belly and the phone in my hand with a P video on. I had lost control. One "harmful" thing let to another and I lost the cart in the middle of the valley. I thought that holding the cart with one hand was enough for me to carry it all the way down but I needed both hands, I lost it and it started driving downhill by itself. I had no way to catch it anymore.

What I mean by being more strict? Having more fucking discipline about everything. You cannot take this lightly. You cannot indulge in fantasizing/flashbacks. We know that we could not stop them from invading our mind because a part of our brain is sick/addicted. So they come into our mind but we really need to be disciplined and strict enough and shift the focus/brush them away/say "no"/say "stop", whatever works for you or maybe all of them. If I had that this better, I wouldn't have been here. The next step is to do that right. I cannot afford to repeat the same fucking mistakes twice. Once was enough. Now I know what went wrong.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: achilles heel on July 23, 2019, 02:23:08 PM
It's important to find the right balance between discipline and self-love. Look at how far you have come already, how a few weeks ago you got frustrated about not making it further than 8 days this whole year. Now you've come to 13 days, meaning you went almost two weeks without porn. Overcoming this addiction is one of the most challenging tasks we have in our lives and it's about putting in constant effort, figuring out what works and what doesn't.

Yes, it's important to not lower your guards and show discipline about your restrictions and precautions. But also remind yourself about your progress, don't look back in regret at your relapse, but learn from it.

You can make it if you fight this problem with consistency, good to see you're back on track already on day 2!  :)
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 23, 2019, 03:44:13 PM
It's important to find the right balance between discipline and self-love. Look at how far you have come already, how a few weeks ago you got frustrated about not making it further than 8 days this whole year. Now you've come to 13 days, meaning you went almost two weeks without porn. Overcoming this addiction is one of the most challenging tasks we have in our lives and it's about putting in constant effort, figuring out what works and what doesn't.

I have to come in with a correction: In 13 days I edged to watching P three times. On day 14 I relapsed at the end of the day after edging to P earlier. If I could actually make it to 2 weeks without edging, without watching, without nothing, that would be indeed the greatest thing. That's what I'm talking about when I say I need to be more strict with myself and put all the elements of the discipline together. I'm the type who's had a pretty hard time making serious progress, I mean like going 30 days or something like that.

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 23, 2019, 11:24:24 PM
Yes, I think it's awesome to set your sights on the future and to be really honest about the past and present as you commit to be more strict as you put it.

There really can't be any room for edging or fantasies, and I think it's valuable to hold yourself accountable for them. For a long time, I wouldn't count edging or looking at stuff without nudity as a relapse because, as I told myself, it wasn't PMO (and that was literally true, but not really honest). Then I realized that it was all just the same pattern of relapsing with slightly different behavior that I had somehow rationalized to myself because there was no nudity and no O.

I really think it takes time and continuing experiences to realize what works and what doesn't. Until you directly and mindfully experience how edging leads to a full relapse, it can be hard to commit to cutting it out (I know from experience!) Basically, I just want to support your decision and repeat what I said in my last comment: you are exactly right to want to be more strict with yourself and to hold yourself to a higher standard. However, don't get too frustrated with yourself if you don't "get it" right away. It takes time for things to change, even if you're doing everything right. So stick to your high standards and really stick to them. My recovery has taken a turn since I decided to hold myself to the highest standards yet and to commit to doing all of the things that have helped me in the past.

Stay strong and keep going!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Do or die on July 24, 2019, 01:01:59 AM
Day 1

I need to start being more strict with myself.
I am also at day one bro. I can understand your feelings.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: rob24 on July 24, 2019, 09:19:31 AM
Yes, I think it's awesome to set your sights on the future and to be really honest about the past and present as you commit to be more strict as you put it.

There really can't be any room for edging or fantasies, and I think it's valuable to hold yourself accountable for them. For a long time, I wouldn't count edging or looking at stuff without nudity as a relapse because, as I told myself, it wasn't PMO (and that was literally true, but not really honest). Then I realized that it was all just the same pattern of relapsing with slightly different behavior that I had somehow rationalized to myself because there was no nudity and no O.

I really think it takes time and continuing experiences to realize what works and what doesn't. Until you directly and mindfully experience how edging leads to a full relapse, it can be hard to commit to cutting it out (I know from experience!) Basically, I just want to support your decision and repeat what I said in my last comment: you are exactly right to want to be more strict with yourself and to hold yourself to a higher standard. However, don't get too frustrated with yourself if you don't "get it" right away. It takes time for things to change, even if you're doing everything right. So stick to your high standards and really stick to them. My recovery has taken a turn since I decided to hold myself to the highest standards yet and to commit to doing all of the things that have helped me in the past.

Stay strong and keep going!

Good idea Heron - Do you have a separate counter for fantasizing? It helps me to create separate counters. My main one tracks full blown Ming to O while watching P, while I have a separate one for anytime I find myself entertaining fantasies long enough that I could have put a stop to it consciously.
It's important to find the right balance between discipline and self-love. Look at how far you have come already, how a few weeks ago you got frustrated about not making it further than 8 days this whole year. Now you've come to 13 days, meaning you went almost two weeks without porn. Overcoming this addiction is one of the most challenging tasks we have in our lives and it's about putting in constant effort, figuring out what works and what doesn't.

Yes, it's important to not lower your guards and show discipline about your restrictions and precautions. But also remind yourself about your progress, don't look back in regret at your relapse, but learn from it.

You can make it if you fight this problem with consistency, good to see you're back on track already on day 2!  :)

Good call on the self-love achilles. I swear, so many aspects of growth - physical and otherwise, seem to take place at the rate of grass growing, or even slower. Just "showing up" to abstain from PMO and making it no matter what is an amazing accomplishment. I've made it 60 days before, but God only knows what progress would have come later - 90 days? 120 days? 180? 365? It's hard to tell, and I think we could all benefit from just patiently trusting in the work of time.

I love how Heron points out that it's the thought patterns we're trying to rewire here too, though. I honestly found myself "playing music" in my imagination for energy when I was running this morning, when I've been giving up music during runs since it distracts me. Do you think that eventually goes away without conscious effort? Or even when you entertain the thought of it? My guess is that it's a combination of time and conscious effort.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 24, 2019, 10:43:35 AM
you are exactly right to want to be more strict with yourself and to hold yourself to a higher standard. However, don't get too frustrated with yourself if you don't "get it" right away. It takes time for things to change, even if you're doing everything right. So stick to your high standards and really stick to them. My recovery has taken a turn since I decided to hold myself to the highest standards yet and to commit to doing all of the things that have helped me in the past.

Stay strong and keep going!

That's what I meant by that. Last time I took fantasizing lightly and it cost me, so it comes without saying that the next step is to be more strict about fantasizing.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 24, 2019, 10:54:20 AM
Good idea Heron - Do you have a separate counter for fantasizing? It helps me to create separate counters. My main one tracks full blown Ming to O while watching P, while I have a separate one for anytime I find myself entertaining fantasies long enough that I could have put a stop to it consciously.

I used to have something like that. It was a spreadsheet where I wrote how many times I PMOed and how many times I edged. I didn't have one for fantasizing. My idea was to count how many times I PMOed in a month and how many times I edged and try to reduce that every month. I thought that less meant less damage to the brain. My goal was, of course, to write 0 there all the time, one day. Now I don't know how true this is from a scientifical point of you, it was something I had read on nofap.

Quote
Good call on the self-love achilles. I swear, so many aspects of growth - physical and otherwise, seem to take place at the rate of grass growing, or even slower. Just "showing up" to abstain from PMO and making it no matter what is an amazing accomplishment. I've made it 60 days before, but God only knows what progress would have come later - 90 days? 120 days? 180? 365? It's hard to tell, and I think we could all benefit from just patiently trusting in the work of time.

I definitely agree with this. Many of us are desperate and feel like it's taking too long, but the truth is, it took us years to modelate our brain like that, it will take a period of time until we reshape it back. How long it will take, I don't know, it could be months or even years. I mean, I'm not talking only about the period of time neccessary for the brain to recover. I'm talking about all the months or years where we keep relapsing, keep learning how to do things, what to avoid, the period of time when we work on building a life that could sustain a better P reboot etc. you know what I mean? When you calculate it, you might be surprised how long it's been. Sometimes I tell myself: "Wow, it's been a few years already, man!"
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 24, 2019, 11:03:20 AM
Day 3

I have to make my discipline better, avoid the same mistakes and start doing some things for my life's improvement.

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Pete McVries on July 24, 2019, 11:19:17 AM
May I ask about your living situation and about how much time you spend online in your leisure time?

In order to PMO you need to be

a. alone/isolated
b. in front of your porn device of choice (computer, tablet, smartphone, tv)

If you keep both these variables to a minimum, your chances to stay clean will increase automatically. This can help you especially in the beginning. From my own experience I can attest to the fact that the first 40-70 days are the hard part until the DeltaFosB vanishes. Withdrawals/urges/cravings become a lot less strong and staying clean gets much easier. But in the beginning it can be very helpful to keep the reins tight.

You said it yourself, you edged three times within those 13 'clean' days. I don't think, you became lax or undisciplined but you are addicted, simple as that. Take an alcoholic and place him in a pub every day for a few hours. He will start to drink sooner or later despite his best efforts and resolutions. In your case, less screen time, less alone time, and mindful use of the internet with a purpose will be crucial. Please also take a look at the times and circumstaces of your relpases and edging relapses. When did they happen? Are you more prone to relapsing after work, in the morning or during the weekends? Is there a pattern here? Analyze it and be extra cautios during those spike times. Better yet, create circumstances in which relapses are almost impossible.

Hope this helps a bit. Take care!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 24, 2019, 12:58:14 PM
May I ask about your living situation and about how much time you spend online in your leisure time?

In order to PMO you need to be

a. alone/isolated
b. in front of your porn device of choice (computer, tablet, smartphone, tv)

If you keep both these variables to a minimum, your chances to stay clean will increase automatically. This can help you especially in the beginning. From my own experience I can attest to the fact that the first 40-70 days are the hard part until the DeltaFosB vanishes. Withdrawals/urges/cravings become a lot less strong and staying clean gets much easier. But in the beginning it can be very helpful to keep the reins tight.

That's right, I could definitely concur. That's what I meant by being more strict with myself and creating a better discipline. I spend some time in front of the computer if I have nothing to do, and I guess this was a problem. It was Sunday, so weekend. First, I allowed myself to fantasize too much, thinking I could handle it. Then things got out of control. I PMOed watching a P video on my phone. Before things get easier, as you said, I need to be disciplined. The weekend is my problem, cause I get out of my routine. I wake up but I don't have to spend 10 hours away by obligation. I don't know, I guess I have to find something to do.

Quote
You said it yourself, you edged three times within those 13 'clean' days. I don't think, you became lax or undisciplined but you are addicted, simple as that. Take an alcoholic and place him in a pub every day for a few hours. He will start to drink sooner or later despite his best efforts and resolutions. In your case, less screen time, less alone time, and mindful use of the internet with a purpose will be crucial.

I guess I don't consider "edging" as a relapse and only take full-blown PMO into consideration. On day 7 I edged to watching P, twice, but I kept counting the days because it made me feel better saying I had a 7 days streak instead of resetting back to day 1. In 13 days, I ended up edging for a total of 3 times.

Quote
Please also take a look at the times and circumstaces of your relpases and edging relapses. When did they happen? Are you more prone to relapsing after work, in the morning or during the weekends? Is there a pattern here? Analyze it and be extra cautios during those spike times. Better yet, create circumstances in which relapses are almost impossible.


I tend to edge or relapse during the weekends. During the week, if it happens, it happens in the evening, after work. Yes, I guess I have to be more disciplined with screen time. It's easy to fall into the trap of: "Okay, I came from work, it was a hard day, now I want to relax in front of the computer a little bit before going to sleep." And BAM! You see the trigger and you are dead. 

Anyway, thanks for the support, man. Congratulations for 200 days.

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Pete McVries on July 24, 2019, 02:34:36 PM
Before you turn on the computer next time, take a minute or two, think clearly about what you are going to do and why you are going to use the computer, do that without rushing or so and once you have completed your intended tasks, switch the computer off again and do something else (ideally something you have planned before). It's a really simply practice but you might benefit from it greatly. Same can be done with the smartphone.

You said, it WAS a problem but if you identify it as a pattern it probably IS a problem. I encouraged you to think about these type of patterns because they can be fixed. And if you manage to fix them, you won't relapse THIS way anymore or the chances decrease a lot. That would be great wouldn't it? Like having the right shoes for difficult terrain instead of hiking through a swamp with sneakers. Whiteknuckling and being more strict and disciplined in general without defining what it means requires so much strength and endurance and nobody in this world has an infinite amount of energy to fight it. That's why I think, you'll benefit greatly from some changes and stricter rules for yourself. The example above is just one possible method which might not be suited for you. I hope, you don't keep relapsing over and over again without some tweaking. “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.” (Einstein).

Regarding the edging: You keep applying oil to a motor that you really want to stop running. It is also a habit that you need to neglect at all costs. It really keeps the addiction alive like nothing else. If I have learned one thing about PMO addiction is that peeking is the devil and leads to full blown relapses 99% of the times. Make it harder for you to peek. Again mindful use of internet. Maybe a blocker that buys you some time. Perhaps don't keep your pc in idle mode (if you do so) so that starting the computer buys you some time to think as well. There can be many ways, don't hesitate to be creative ;)

Be strong, be patient, be courageous and good things are bound to happen!

Take care and thanks for your compliments!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 24, 2019, 03:12:47 PM
Before you turn on the computer next time, take a minute or two, think clearly about what you are going to do and why you are going to use the computer, do that without rushing or so and once you have completed your intended tasks, switch the computer off again and do something else (ideally something you have planned before). It's a really simply practice but you might benefit from it greatly. Same can be done with the smartphone.

You said, it WAS a problem but if you identify it as a pattern it probably IS a problem. I encouraged you to think about these type of patterns because they can be fixed. And if you manage to fix them, you won't relapse THIS way anymore or the chances decrease a lot. That would be great wouldn't it? Like having the right shoes for difficult terrain instead of hiking through a swamp with sneakers. Whiteknuckling and being more strict and disciplined in general without defining what it means requires so much strength and endurance and nobody in this world has an infinite amount of energy to fight it. That's why I think, you'll benefit greatly from some changes and stricter rules for yourself. The example above is just one possible method which might not be suited for you. I hope, you don't keep relapsing over and over again without some tweaking. “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.” (Einstein).

Regarding the edging: You keep applying oil to a motor that you really want to stop running. It is also a habit that you need to neglect at all costs. It really keeps the addiction alive like nothing else. If I have learned one thing about PMO addiction is that peeking is the devil and leads to full blown relapses 99% of the times. Make it harder for you to peek. Again mindful use of internet. Maybe a blocker that buys you some time. Perhaps don't keep your pc in idle mode (if you do so) so that starting the computer buys you some time to think as well. There can be many ways, don't hesitate to be creative ;)

Be strong, be patient, be courageous and good things are bound to happen!

Take care and thanks for your compliments!

Great ideas. I know that about edging. I didn't do it because I wanted, I did it because I couldn't really handle it too well. It's something I've been fighting to remove from my life with not much success. And according to the definition of insanity, I should be insane.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Pete McVries on July 24, 2019, 08:48:55 PM
To reply to your fighter anology, you are solely relying on your chin and heart at the moment. But there is this new breed of up and commers, some young contenders with weird combinations and a crazy offensive stance switching and footwork, ko power for days, and your momentary solution to this challenge is to take hits on the chin to make it through the fight. But a seasoned boxer can only take so many blows to the head before he gets knocked out. Last fight you got rocked three times before being knocked out cold. You got an amazing gym, good coaches, qualified training partners but maybe it's time for a new training regimen and another game plan. More footwork to be able to dodge the shots, better head movement, hands up, chin tucked, no more crazy brawling, use your reach and pepper some jabs from the outside mixed with some nice right crosses and the occasional hook to the jaw. Your head coach urges you to think of your health and longevity. He urges you to mix things up so that you can string some wins together and have another crack at the title. But change is scary because you have to step out of your comfort zone constantly and you have to travel unknown paths. But this is where you grow as a person and where gains can be made and where potential glory awaits. In the end, it's your fighting career and you ultimately decide what's best for you...

Take care, you'll figure it out! :)
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 24, 2019, 11:34:22 PM

Good idea Heron - Do you have a separate counter for fantasizing? It helps me to create separate counters. My main one tracks full blown Ming to O while watching P, while I have a separate one for anytime I find myself entertaining fantasies long enough that I could have put a stop to it consciously.

I love how Heron points out that it's the thought patterns we're trying to rewire here too, though. I honestly found myself "playing music" in my imagination for energy when I was running this morning, when I've been giving up music during runs since it distracts me. Do you think that eventually goes away without conscious effort? Or even when you entertain the thought of it? My guess is that it's a combination of time and conscious effort.

I have kept a series of really detailed counters in the past: one for P, one for PMO, one for fantasies, etc. Now, my only counter is a habit tracker on my phone that rings at the start of the day and says "Just for today." That reminds that "just for today," I should stay on my best behavior (and that includes fantasies, etc.). For me, right now, I realize that fantasies and sexual thoughts will happen without any effort on my part. I can't control whether or not they happen, but I can control how I react to them. That means that I have to do something to change my thoughts, focus on something else, etc. when a fantasy/sexual thought arises. Having a sexual thought, for me, isn't a problem. Fixating on a sexual thought, though, is.


I guess I don't consider "edging" as a relapse and only take full-blown PMO into consideration. On day 7 I edged to watching P, twice, but I kept counting the days because it made me feel better saying I had a 7 days streak instead of resetting back to day 1. In 13 days, I ended up edging for a total of 3 times.


As a person who didn't consider edging as a relapse for a long time, I just want to ask: why not? Why do you not consider edging a relapse? Because PMO bring us pleasure and have helped us through hard times in the past, it can be very scary to think about giving them up completely. So we can invent justifications for "less serious" versions of PMO. It has been years since I've straight up PMOed, but even earlier this year, I was edging all night to lingerie and swimsuit videos. It took me a long time to realize that I was still relapsing, still addicted. The only thing that had changed was the way I was acting out when I lapsed.

In other words, I wasn't relapsing with "full blown" PMO, but I was still a prisoner to compulsive sexual stimulation in the form of edging and sexy videos. It was still addiction, and it was happening pretty much on a schedule. It was hard to come to terms with the fact that I was just as trapped as ever (even if I wasn't dosing myself with the "hard" stuff anymore), but I had to be really honest with myself and recognize the problem I had for what it was.

Realistically, if I were to relapse again (fingers crossed), I really don't think it would be full-blown PMO. Most likely, it would be edging and lingerie stuff. This is because A) I think the softer stuff would probably be enough for me to get my dopamine fix and B) I used to rely on a fake, made-up rule that as long as I didn't see nudity and as long as I didn't O, everything was totally okay. That was a lie I kept telling myself, and it kept me trapped in a cycle of addiction for a long time.

I guess what I'm saying is that I feel like I have been where you are, and, just based on what I have been learning, you aren't doing yourself any favors by giving yourself room to get a dopamine fix without counting it as a relapse. Just a thought from my own experience.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 25, 2019, 05:33:12 AM
To reply to your fighter anology, you are solely relying on your chin and heart at the moment. But there is this new breed of up and commers, some young contenders with weird combinations and a crazy offensive stance switching and footwork, ko power for days, and your momentary solution to this challenge is to take hits on the chin to make it through the fight. But a seasoned boxer can only take so many blows to the head before he gets knocked out. Last fight you got rocked three times before being knocked out cold. You got an amazing gym, good coaches, qualified training partners but maybe it's time for a new training regimen and another game plan. More footwork to be able to dodge the shots, better head movement, hands up, chin tucked, no more crazy brawling, use your reach and pepper some jabs from the outside mixed with some nice right crosses and the occasional hook to the jaw. Your head coach urges you to think of your health and longevity. He urges you to mix things up so that you can string some wins together and have another crack at the title. But change is scary because you have to step out of your comfort zone constantly and you have to travel unknown paths. But this is where you grow as a person and where gains can be made and where potential glory awaits. In the end, it's your fighting career and you ultimately decide what's best for you...

Take care, you'll figure it out! :)

Sure, man. I understand your point. Thanks for the support. By the way, did you read my entire journal?
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 25, 2019, 05:37:23 AM
As a person who didn't consider edging as a relapse for a long time, I just want to ask: why not? Why do you not consider edging a relapse? Because PMO bring us pleasure and have helped us through hard times in the past, it can be very scary to think about giving them up completely. So we can invent justifications for "less serious" versions of PMO. It has been years since I've straight up PMOed, but even earlier this year, I was edging all night to lingerie and swimsuit videos. It took me a long time to realize that I was still relapsing, still addicted. The only thing that had changed was the way I was acting out when I lapsed.

In other words, I wasn't relapsing with "full blown" PMO, but I was still a prisoner to compulsive sexual stimulation in the form of edging and sexy videos. It was still addiction, and it was happening pretty much on a schedule. It was hard to come to terms with the fact that I was just as trapped as ever (even if I wasn't dosing myself with the "hard" stuff anymore), but I had to be really honest with myself and recognize the problem I had for what it was.

Realistically, if I were to relapse again (fingers crossed), I really don't think it would be full-blown PMO. Most likely, it would be edging and lingerie stuff. This is because A) I think the softer stuff would probably be enough for me to get my dopamine fix and B) I used to rely on a fake, made-up rule that as long as I didn't see nudity and as long as I didn't O, everything was totally okay. That was a lie I kept telling myself, and it kept me trapped in a cycle of addiction for a long time.

I guess what I'm saying is that I feel like I have been where you are, and, just based on what I have been learning, you aren't doing yourself any favors by giving yourself room to get a dopamine fix without counting it as a relapse. Just a thought from my own experience.

I see your point and I know I shouldn't indulge in any form of dopamine stimulation in the form of P related content. The idea is, I was too scared to say: "I relapsed to edging, now back to day 1", because seeing "Day 7" written there made me feel better. I didn't want to feel crushed again. I didn't feel good about the edging anyway but I told myself I would not do it again. However, I ended up doing it more than I should've. It happened on weekend and once during the week, in the evening. Of course I'm trying to keep away from edging, fantasizing, peeking and everything. It's just that I need to figure out a way to do it alright.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Pete McVries on July 25, 2019, 06:54:07 AM
To reply to your fighter anology, you are solely relying on your chin and heart at the moment. But there is this new breed of up and commers, some young contenders with weird combinations and a crazy offensive stance switching and footwork, ko power for days, and your momentary solution to this challenge is to take hits on the chin to make it through the fight. But a seasoned boxer can only take so many blows to the head before he gets knocked out. Last fight you got rocked three times before being knocked out cold. You got an amazing gym, good coaches, qualified training partners but maybe it's time for a new training regimen and another game plan. More footwork to be able to dodge the shots, better head movement, hands up, chin tucked, no more crazy brawling, use your reach and pepper some jabs from the outside mixed with some nice right crosses and the occasional hook to the jaw. Your head coach urges you to think of your health and longevity. He urges you to mix things up so that you can string some wins together and have another crack at the title. But change is scary because you have to step out of your comfort zone constantly and you have to travel unknown paths. But this is where you grow as a person and where gains can be made and where potential glory awaits. In the end, it's your fighting career and you ultimately decide what's best for you...

Take care, you'll figure it out! :)

Sure, man. I understand your point. Thanks for the support. By the way, did you read my entire journal?

Yes, I just read your whole journal. Seems like you are struggling with anxiety a lot. Unfortunately, I do too, so I think I know what you are going through sometimes. Being anxious a lot just sucks, it's really the worst.

I also want to clarify that I only want to help and the last thing I want to do is stress you out with my posts. If what I have to write annoys you, just say so and I'll keep my mouth shut.

On some pages you were reffering to your plan but if I'm not mistaken you didn't describe what your plan consists of. You have this PMO problem like we all do and we all want to beat it. And for most of us, rebooting,regaining our sexual functioning and freeing ourselves from the shackles of the addiction is the number 1 priority. But how are we gonna do it? I think one of the best ways to do it is to take this HUGE PMO problem and dissect it into a few small problems and find strict solutions and rules for these little problems

For example:

- You tend to relapse after drinking alcohol (I had the same exact problem by the way). What are you gonna do about it? Are you gonna drink a few drinks less next time or are completely abstain from alcohol? For me, it was simple. I had to completely abstain from drinking alcohol because once I start drinking, I wanna drink more and more and when I'm hungover the next day, I crave porn like nothing else.
- Less screen time and mindful use of the internet. I used to peek when I used the internet without clear intentions. And peeking always lead to eventual relapses. It's just how it is. I know it's unfair, I'd love to look at some nudes as well from time to time but we have gone to far with our 'drug of choice'. There people who can drink occasionally without getting addicted, there are porn users who can watch porn 1-2 a month without going too deep down the rabbit hole and there are people who can't. We can't. That's the cold truth. There is not a possible future where you can use porn "healthily" (if that is even possible). So we have to act accordingly, we have to implement rules that help us refrain from it. What do you use your computer for in your leisure time? Infotainment, video games, social media? Do you need it for work? Maybe you would benefit from using the computer a lot less. Like for two hours a day for example? Play video games for an hour, check news and social media for half an hour, post in this forum for 30 minutes and then do something else.
- To-Do-Lists and pre-planned days. That can help you greatly. You might roll your eyes now reading this but if you take 10 minutes each night before going to bed and roughly pre-plan your upcoming day that can be like a lifeline in times of great urges and cravings. 9 - 5 work, 5 - 6 commute, 6 - 7 dinner, 7 - 8 stroll through the nearby park, 8 - 10 mindful computer use, 10 - 11 reading/meditation, 11 sleep. It's just an example of course but this is what it can look like. It might help you structure your day and not end up with time on your hands, sitting in front of the computer, fighting a battle that most of us would lose 99% of the time.
- In general, if you used to spend a lot of time with porn, you need to have compensatory activities to fill your time.

Just a few examples. There are many different variables around you that can be tweaked to swing the odds in your favor. Don't hesitate to experiment with them even if it feels crazy or stupid initially.

There is an excellent arabic proverb, it goes something like this:

If you want to change the world, change your country
If you want to change your country, change your city
If you want to change your city, change your street
If you want to change your street, change your home
If you want to change your home, change yourself

All the best, my friend!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 25, 2019, 01:07:01 PM
I also want to clarify that I only want to help and the last thing I want to do is stress you out with my posts. If what I have to write annoys you, just say so and I'll keep my mouth shut.

I wanted to start with this first and also clarify that you don't stress me out. You are one of the biggest helps I've had in this journey. You didn't get to 200 days by luck only so your help is more than welcome on my page. I am open to any help right now so if you think you have anything to help me out with, write it without hesitation.

Quote
Yes, I just read your whole journal. Seems like you are struggling with anxiety a lot. Unfortunately, I do too, so I think I know what you are going through sometimes. Being anxious a lot just sucks, it's really the worst.

Man, this makes me want to go back and re-read my journal again cause I don't remember everything I wrote  :D About anxiety, it's exhausting sometimes. I used to think maybe P had something to do with it, or maybe the binge drinking sessions or both. Or maybe none. The only way to know is to quit those two and see how I feel after that. I need to point the finger at the right cause so I could do something about it. I've been trying therapy but it seems to have a weak response to this. It looks like it's more chemical, in the brain. Maybe the dopamine system, who knows. Maybe I fried myself up too much. But right now this is only a rant, I am not sure about anything.

Quote
You tend to relapse after drinking alcohol (I had the same exact problem by the way). What are you gonna do about it? Are you gonna drink a few drinks less next time or are completely abstain from alcohol? For me, it was simple. I had to completely abstain from drinking alcohol because once I start drinking, I wanna drink more and more and when I'm hungover the next day, I crave porn like nothing else.

I also think I have to stay away from alcohol completely. Like I wrote earlier, maybe it has contributed to (or some of) my anxiety. I am not the type who drinks alone, isolated in my room. I drink when I hang out with people or go to some party and you know how it goes. You never stop at one beer only or one drink. It's that type of situation. And that's how I end up binge drinking and then I have a crazy hangover the next day (and I always tell myself to stop this behavior when I have to crawl at work for many hours because of the hangover). I think I got myself in the wrong entourage. Those guys like partying and drinking. If I want to stay away from alcohol, I have to stay away from them. You know, because I am single and I come home to an empty studio apartment, hanging out with them was like not staying home and actually doing something besides work and computer enternaiment. But this led to a lot of drinking. During the days when I didn't hang out with those guys, I sat in front of the computer, doing things that I probably shouldn't do (a lot of Youtube for example) and of course... Something else that we keep trying to quit here.

Quote
Less screen time and mindful use of the internet. I used to peek when I used the internet without clear intentions. And peeking always lead to eventual relapses. It's just how it is. I know it's unfair, I'd love to look at some nudes as well from time to time but we have gone to far with our 'drug of choice'. There people who can drink occasionally without getting addicted, there are porn users who can watch porn 1-2 a month without going too deep down the rabbit hole and there are people who can't. We can't. That's the cold truth. There is not a possible future where you can use porn "healthily" (if that is even possible). So we have to act accordingly, we have to implement rules that help us refrain from it. What do you use your computer for in your leisure time? Infotainment, video games, social media? Do you need it for work? Maybe you would benefit from using the computer a lot less. Like for two hours a day for example? Play video games for an hour, check news and social media for half an hour, post in this forum for 30 minutes and then do something else.

I guess from lack of doing something else, many times I played video games, watched Youtube and shit like that. It always led to me looking at something, "edging a little bit", exactly what I shouldn't do. Also, below this paragraph you mentioned finding things to fill the void. That's what I have to do, actually, so I could avoid filling the time with computer. I could never really use computer less without having something to do, because you come from work and get bored. I don't know, maybe I should go to the gym, to martial arts, to some chess club or whatever. Start biking, running whatever, anything that gets me home later when I have to sleep only. Otherwise, I could end up filling the time with computer.

Anyway, thanks again, man! You're a big help.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 25, 2019, 01:26:59 PM
Day 4

Zero edging, zero peeking, zero everything.

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: rob24 on July 25, 2019, 09:58:22 PM
Day 4

Zero edging, zero peeking, zero everything.

Great job Lero! Though I've been faltering slightly in the use of subs, much of which this forum has turned me onto, your commitment inspires me more for the vigor with which you come right back at it. I need to become firmer in my commitment to really reach rewiring
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 26, 2019, 06:03:57 AM
Great job Lero! Though I've been faltering slightly in the use of subs, much of which this forum has turned me onto, your commitment inspires me more for the vigor with which you come right back at it. I need to become firmer in my commitment to really reach rewiring

Thanks, man! I appreciate it. Good luck with your recovery.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 26, 2019, 11:34:52 AM
Day 5

P was my sex life that gave me gonorrhea. Now I have to heal myself.

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Do or die on July 26, 2019, 03:50:28 PM
Help lero . just relapsed
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 26, 2019, 04:59:14 PM
Here is a plan:

1) Use Internet only with a purpose: "I need to find a location on the map", "I want to read/write on Reboot Nation or watch/read other informations about rebooting", "I need to pay bills or find out how to do something I don't know," etc. Then turn off the computer. Browsing Youtube, social media or jumping from one website to another without a plan will eventually set me up for a relapse. It's happened to me so many times. Which leads to:

2) Find things to do away from computer to fill those hours that I used to entertain myself online;

3) Remove the Internet on phone or get an old school phone instead, a.k.a Remove the possibility to watch P on phone or use the phone in the same way I use computer for entertainment/distraction from boredom;

4) I need to find something to do on weekends because they are long. During the week I go to work so I have less free time but on weekends, man... I need to find some activities. Last 2 times I relapsed on weekends. Too much boredom, computer time;

5) Stop feeding myself with fantasies. Once they start in my head, I need to change the focus, think about something else/focus on doing something;

6) If I feel that this plan is a hussle, remind myself why I want to recover in the first place. Remind myself how a relapse feels like. Remind myself about the benefits of being P free. Remind myself of the problems that I have because of P (like having difficulties feeling interested in girls right now. I am sure I must have PIED too);

7) Physical exercise helps with urges = Go to gym, go to run in the park, join some sport club etc. ;

8 ) Stay away from alcohol. It makes me relapse both while I'm drunk and when I'm hangovered.




Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: rob24 on July 26, 2019, 06:37:27 PM
Great calls here Lero. I'm especially liking #1 and how it helps restore your sense of cognitive control. It's very intentional. You decide on a task and then you do it. I recently realized just how many physical possessions I have lying around. So often, I feel like physical environment ends up affecting cognition, and it is helping me to clear the slate of my possessions so that my thoughts, plans, and ideas take center stage rather than my possessions. Trying to eat more? Spend more time in your kitchen. Trying to meet more people? Get outside. Etc. Installing a safe web browser might be a good idea for me too
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Pete McVries on July 26, 2019, 07:52:51 PM
Well done, Lero!

Looking forward to seeing your progress!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: squid on July 26, 2019, 08:12:59 PM
Here is a plan:

1) Use Internet only with a purpose: "I need to find a location on the map", "I want to read/write on Reboot Nation or watch/read other informations about rebooting", "I need to pay bills or find out how to do something I don't know," etc. Then turn off the computer. Browsing Youtube, social media or jumping from one website to another without a plan will eventually set me up for a relapse. It's happened to me so many times. Which leads to:

2) Find things to do away from computer to fill those hours that I used to entertain myself online;

3) Remove the Internet on phone or get an old school phone instead, a.k.a Remove the possibility to watch P on phone or use the phone in the same way I use computer for entertainment/distraction from boredom;

4) I need to find something to do on weekends because they are long. During the week I go to work so I have less free time but on weekends, man... I need to find some activities. Last 2 times I relapsed on weekends. Too much boredom, computer time;

5) Stop feeding myself with fantasies. Once they start in my head, I need to change the focus, think about something else/focus on doing something;

6) If I feel that this plan is a hussle, remind myself why I want to recover in the first place. Remind myself how a relapse feels like. Remind myself about the benefits of being P free. Remind myself of the problems that I have because of P (like having difficulties feeling interested in girls right now. I am sure I must have PIED too);

7) Physical exercise helps with urges = Go to gym, go to run in the park, join some sport club etc. ;

8 ) Stay away from alcohol. It makes me relapse both while I'm drunk and when I'm hangovered.

This plan has some great info in it!  Number 4 is big for me.  And relevant with it being the weekend right now :o
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Do or die on July 26, 2019, 10:55:31 PM
Here is a plan:

1) Use Internet only with a purpose: "I need to find a location on the map", "I want to read/write on Reboot Nation or watch/read other informations about rebooting", "I need to pay bills or find out how to do something I don't know," etc. Then turn off the computer. Browsing Youtube, social media or jumping from one website to another without a plan will eventually set me up for a relapse. It's happened to me so many times. Which leads to:

2) Find things to do away from computer to fill those hours that I used to entertain myself online;

3) Remove the Internet on phone or get an old school phone instead, a.k.a Remove the possibility to watch P on phone or use the phone in the same way I use computer for entertainment/distraction from boredom;

4) I need to find something to do on weekends because they are long. During the week I go to work so I have less free time but on weekends, man... I need to find some activities. Last 2 times I relapsed on weekends. Too much boredom, computer time;

5) Stop feeding myself with fantasies. Once they start in my head, I need to change the focus, think about something else/focus on doing something;

6) If I feel that this plan is a hussle, remind myself why I want to recover in the first place. Remind myself how a relapse feels like. Remind myself about the benefits of being P free. Remind myself of the problems that I have because of P (like having difficulties feeling interested in girls right now. I am sure I must have PIED too);

7) Physical exercise helps with urges = Go to gym, go to run in the park, join some sport club etc. ;

8 ) Stay away from alcohol. It makes me relapse both while I'm drunk and when I' m hangovered.
Thanks lero
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 27, 2019, 05:02:14 AM
This plan has some great info in it!  Number 4 is big for me.  And relevant with it being the weekend right now :o

Thanks, bro.

I know. Today is weekend and I have problems dealing with it because it's long and there is no work to keep me away for many hours. I have to think about what things to do on weekends. Maybe plan them ahead during the week, like: "This weekend I will do those things."
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Pete McVries on July 27, 2019, 05:05:37 AM
I know. Today is weekend and I have problems dealing with it because it's long and there is no work to keep me away for many hours. I have to think about what things to do on weekends. Maybe plan them ahead during the week, like: "This weekend I will do those things."

Yes, you should do that beforehand so that you don't get into a state where you have nothing to do and naturally end up on the computer using it without an initial purpose in mind! Perhaps, that's what you should do this very second. Plan your weekend.

In this spirit, have a wonderful weekend! :)
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 27, 2019, 05:10:05 AM
Great calls here Lero. I'm especially liking #1 and how it helps restore your sense of cognitive control. It's very intentional. You decide on a task and then you do it. I recently realized just how many physical possessions I have lying around. So often, I feel like physical environment ends up affecting cognition, and it is helping me to clear the slate of my possessions so that my thoughts, plans, and ideas take center stage rather than my possessions. Trying to eat more? Spend more time in your kitchen. Trying to meet more people? Get outside. Etc. Installing a safe web browser might be a good idea for me too

That's right, bro. Using computer for entertainment/"I have nothing else to do" type of thing always led me to looking at something and edging. So it goes without saying that in order to avoid this, I have to stop using the computer like that. Thanks to Pete for the tip. Like I'm doing now for example: I am here with a purpose then I will turn the computer off.

"Meeting people" on social media has never been satisfactory for me. It's a superficial environment and it contains triggers than sooner or later will get me in trouble. And using computer for entertainment (Youtube, video games etc.) has never been satisfactory for me either. I mean, there is a false sense of keeping me pleased but, at the end of the day, at a deeper evaluation, I am not satisfied with spending my time like this. I would benefit more from doing things that nature has created me for (It didn't create me for computer): Like running, doing martial arts, playing an instrument, playing basketball in the park, playing chess with old men in the park etc. Even though I might suck at almost all of those, they are better things to do than computer. Computer is a tool, at the end of the day, and it's got its great moments when it's useful: Like coming to Reboot Nation, checking maps, printing something, reading how to fix some thing that I don't know how to fix it etc. Other than that, mindlessly entertaining myself with computer disconnects me from life and keeps me so close to triggers. I can't see pictures, thumbnails and anything like that anymore, especially that this is my 6th days and I will start soon having less and less control over myself.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 27, 2019, 05:10:52 AM
Well done, Lero!

Looking forward to seeing your progress!

Thanks, bro. You gave me some good tips.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 27, 2019, 05:13:02 AM
Yes, you should do that beforehand so that you don't get into a state where you have nothing to do and naturally end up on the computer using it without an initial purpose in mind! Perhaps, that's what you should do this very second. Plan your weekend.

In this spirit, have a wonderful weekend! :)

That's a good idea. I should write down some things to do today. There is always some (even if they are smaller) things to do, if you think carefully. I could go to the park with the bike or play some basketball (although I'm terible at it). After that I could go see my parents, with the bike! Because it takes some time to get there and back.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 27, 2019, 11:17:56 AM
Day 6

I cheated during my last streak. I should've considered the relapse on day 7, after I had edged twice. Tomorrow will be Day 7 again but I will do this right this time. No peeking leads to no edging which leads to relapse free. I will think about the plan for tomorrow. It's Sunday, still weekend. I've relapsed twice on Sunday plus the edging. This becomes number 1 priority: How to stay away from fucking it up on Sunday. I've been staying away from alcohol too, which has led me to relapse many times.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 27, 2019, 06:34:14 PM
Day 6

I cheated during my last streak. I should've considered the relapse on day 7, after I had edged twice. Tomorrow will be Day 7 again but I will do this right this time. No peeking leads to no edging which leads to relapse free. I will think about the plan for tomorrow. It's Sunday, still weekend. I've relapsed twice on Sunday plus the edging. This becomes number 1 priority: How to stay away from fucking it up on Sunday. I've been staying away from alcohol too, which has led me to relapse many times.

Keep it up, man! Everything that has come before is valuable as long as you learn from it and commit not to trip up for the same reasons. It sounds like you're much more aware and committed heading into this Day 7 than last time. You've got it!

Sending strength your way!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 28, 2019, 03:09:29 AM
Keep it up, man! Everything that has come before is valuable as long as you learn from it and commit not to trip up for the same reasons. It sounds like you're much more aware and committed heading into this Day 7 than last time. You've got it!

Sending strength your way!

Thanks, man. I appreciate it.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 28, 2019, 04:07:21 AM
1 week

I raised from the ashes like Phoenix and made it back to one week.

For 6 days, I had no urges for some reason. But they're starting from now on. I woke up in the morning and my mind got bullied by fantasies. Since I said: "No P, no peeking, no pictures, nothing!" The only solution that my brain had left was to invade my mind with fantasies, make me drown in them therefore raise my dopamine. But like this I will never beat this addiction. No P related dopamine stimulation, that's the solution. Last Sunday I relapsed because I indulged too much in fantasizing. Two weeks ago I edged, for the same reason. I will not make the same mistake again. Did I tell you the definition of insanity?
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: achilles heel on July 28, 2019, 10:34:00 AM
"No P, no peeking, no pictures, nothing!"

It might appear the harder, almost impossible way - but in fact it's the easier way and the only one that really works. Congratulations on the first week and all the best for the week to come!  :)
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 28, 2019, 10:53:35 AM
It might appear the harder, almost impossible way - but in fact it's the easier way and the only one that really works. Congratulations on the first week and all the best for the week to come!  :)

It is, actually, the only way. In order to detrain your brain from them, you have to stop looking at them. And to accomplish this, you need to find ways to make them hard to access. This is 1 week of total P rest for me. I didn't peek, I didn't edge, nothing. Last time after 7 days I edged. And thanks for the support.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: rob24 on July 28, 2019, 04:52:20 PM
Nice work Lero. You and achilles inspire me a lot and make me realize my oversights in rebooting - I've grown more observant of my own habits. No P is one thing, but then completely avoiding images, fantasizing, and P subs is a whole other set of expectations I wasn't ready for/sensitive to. Though I haven't relapsed with full blown PMO, I've edged and reset my counter on M, and I've used P subs looking through pictures. It's likely slowed the speed of recovery, and I'm plateauing in some ways as a result. Nonetheless, I'm imbued with understanding from you guys. It's almost like pavlov's dog. I need to stop seeking out the cues that are in any way related to PMO addiction. Thanks friend, and congratulations on the successful return.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 28, 2019, 05:31:18 PM
Nice work Lero. You and achilles inspire me a lot and make me realize my oversights in rebooting - I've grown more observant of my own habits. No P is one thing, but then completely avoiding images, fantasizing, and P subs is a whole other set of expectations I wasn't ready for/sensitive to. Though I haven't relapsed with full blown PMO, I've edged and reset my counter on M, and I've used P subs looking through pictures. It's likely slowed the speed of recovery, and I'm plateauing in some ways as a result. Nonetheless, I'm imbued with understanding from you guys. It's almost like pavlov's dog. I need to stop seeking out the cues that are in any way related to PMO addiction. Thanks friend, and congratulations on the successful return.

That's right. This is how it evolved for me (and I'm not the only one): I understood P was poison so I knew what I had to do: No more watching P. But I didn't know that looking at pictures, Youtube videos etc. (Anything that was not nudity but it had a "sexual theme") activated the same pathway in my brain and kept the dopamine kicking. It wasn't as strong as P, but it was still P related. It doesn't mean you are not an acoholic anymore if you move from vodka to wine. What I was doing was staying away from vodka but drinking gallons of wine. With alcohol it's simple and I would've known I should've avoided that, but with P addiction things could get tricky. However, with time, you see all the paterns, you learn what you have to avoid and then it becomes clear: I have to stay away from P, from social media pictures and from Youtube videos (and from anything else you are using as P substitute). I mean, for example, while staying away from all that, I still found ways to give myself dopamine (unconsciously): I would go to a P database to check out stuff like what year an actress started making movies, what age she was, what was the name of the movie (doing this gave me a rush of arousal). Or checking out sexual enhancers or fleshlights. It went from the stronger stuff down to the lightest stuff but still using something for the fix. I moved from crack to weed and down to tobacco but still smoking (you smoke all of them). Once you identify every little thing you do to stimulate your P pathway, the next step is to stay away from everything. Making them very hard to access is one thing to do. Another is to stay busy if too much free time makes you think about P. Too much computer time is also a problem, because P is one click away. Phone internet is another problem (ditch that quickly. I did). The fact that I made it to 1 week without absolutely no P behavior (honest), it means I'm doing something right. I will finish this by saying two more things: One - Beware of fantasizing! And I mean fantasizing as in "watching P in your head or putting your crush in a P scene, or girls you see in your neighborhood, at work etc.) It's the same thing: You reinforce the P pathway and it pushes you to look for more until you end up using P substitutes or straight P. Even masturbating to P fantasies is not alright. It's the same P behavior. And two - Also stay away from things that sabotage you, like alcohol in my case. I can't drink without relapsing so I had to throw the fun out the window, stay away from my drinking friends and stuff like that. If quitting P is not your no. 1 priority, make it and do everything it takes to accomplish it, even if it means ending the friendship with your best friend if he is a P user or you drink with him 3 times a week and alcohol makes you relapse (and he doesn't want to change when you tell him).

Anyway, thanks for the support, man.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 28, 2019, 07:00:43 PM
That's right. This is how it evolved for me (and I'm not the only one): I understood P was poison so I knew what I had to do: No more watching P. But I didn't know that looking at pictures, Youtube videos etc. (Anything that was not nudity but it had a "sexual theme") activated the same pathway in my brain and kept the dopamine kicking. It wasn't as strong as P, but it was still P related. It doesn't mean you are not an acoholic anymore if you move from vodka to wine. What I was doing was staying away from vodka but drinking gallons of wine. With alcohol it's simple and I would've known I should've avoided that, but with P addiction things could get tricky. However, with time, you see all the paterns, you learn what you have to avoid and then it becomes clear: I have to stay away from P, from social media pictures and from Youtube videos (and from anything else you are using as P substitute). I mean, for example, while staying away from all that, I still found ways to give myself dopamine (unconsciously): I would go to a P database to check out stuff like what year an actress started making movies, what age she was, what was the name of the movie (doing this gave me a rush of arousal). Or checking out sexual enhancers or fleshlights. It went from the stronger stuff down to the lightest stuff but still using something for the fix. I moved from crack to weed and down to tobacco but still smoking (you smoke all of them). Once you identify every little thing you do to stimulate your P pathway, the next step is to stay away from everything. Making them very hard to access is one thing to do. Another is to stay busy if too much free time makes you think about P. Too much computer time is also a problem, because P is one click away. Phone internet is another problem (ditch that quickly. I did). The fact that I made it to 1 week without absolutely no P behavior (honest), it means I'm doing something right. I will finish this by saying two more things: One - Beware of fantasizing! And I mean fantasizing as in "watching P in your head or putting your crush in a P scene, or girls you see in your neighborhood, at work etc.) It's the same thing: You reinforce the P pathway and it pushes you to look for more until you end up using P substitutes or straight P. Even masturbating to P fantasies is not alright. It's the same P behavior. And two - Also stay away from things that sabotage you, like alcohol in my case. I can't drink without relapsing so I had to throw the fun out the window, stay away from my drinking friends and stuff like that. If quitting P is not your no. 1 priority, make it and do everything it takes to accomplish it, even if it means ending the friendship with your best friend if he is a P user or you drink with him 3 times a week and alcohol makes you relapse (and he doesn't want to change when you tell him).

This is an awesome way to put it! Realizing this was a huge breakthrough for me, and I hope it has been one for you too! In your recent posts you sound more centered, calmer, more in-control. You may not feel that way yet (I hope you do), but the progress in your mindset is pretty clear, and I'm excited for you!

Earlier in my recovery journey, I felt like Week 2 was always the hardest one. Don't let those urges get in your head. You know they're poison and that they aren't worth any of your attention. Just keep doing what you were doing during Week 1 even, or especially, if it gets harder this week. The urges will come, they might be stronger than any urges you've felt before, but they will pass. They don't last forever, so don't let them trick you into thinking that the only way to silence them is by giving in. They'll give up if you ignore them for long enough.

It sounds like you're making some important steps in your recovery. Keep it up!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 29, 2019, 04:52:59 AM
This is an awesome way to put it! Realizing this was a huge breakthrough for me, and I hope it has been one for you too! In your recent posts you sound more centered, calmer, more in-control. You may not feel that way yet (I hope you do), but the progress in your mindset is pretty clear, and I'm excited for you!

Earlier in my recovery journey, I felt like Week 2 was always the hardest one. Don't let those urges get in your head. You know they're poison and that they aren't worth any of your attention. Just keep doing what you were doing during Week 1 even, or especially, if it gets harder this week. The urges will come, they might be stronger than any urges you've felt before, but they will pass. They don't last forever, so don't let them trick you into thinking that the only way to silence them is by giving in. They'll give up if you ignore them for long enough.

It sounds like you're making some important steps in your recovery. Keep it up!

Thanks, man. You know, it starts with the craving for dopamine. You have this and then you start searching for material that makes your dopamine raise. This is what you have to watch out. You have to stop everything from the beginning, when the craving starts because if you let that push you into looking for material, before you know you've looked at something/watched something. And then you say: "Shit! How the fuck did I end up doing this?" You might relapse afterward or, if you stop like I used to do, you still involve yourself in P behavior and you have to stay away from any stimulating material. When it comes to not watching anything, this is one thing, but P flashbacks are the hardest because it's like watching P inside your head and it's stimulating. That's what I hate about it. When you are an alcoholic, thinking about the bottle won't do anything if you don't actually drink. But thinking about P actually activates the pathway. This is the thing that annoys me the most. If I have to name one thing that I'm having a very hard time with, it's P flashbacks.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 29, 2019, 11:57:37 AM
Day 8

I had hard urges in the first part of the day. Today I had to do something stressful and I had to deal with a lot of anxiety too. This fucking anxiety is killing me.

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: squid on July 29, 2019, 02:07:02 PM
But you got through the urges, keep on going!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 29, 2019, 04:20:42 PM
But you got through the urges, keep on going!

Knowing myself, it's a miracle anytime I don't run to P for comfort during stressful days with anxiety. I still can't believe I have an 8 days streak when my limit was 4 days and considering that I've been having a tone more stress and anxiety lately than back then when I binged every 4 days. I get those impulses to PMO for soothing and I ignore them but sometimes it's hard.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 29, 2019, 06:11:20 PM
But you got through the urges, keep on going!

Knowing myself, it's a miracle anytime I don't run to P for comfort during stressful days with anxiety. I still can't believe I have an 8 days streak when my limit was 4 days and considering that I've been having a tone more stress and anxiety lately than back then when I binged every 4 days. I get those impulses to PMO for soothing and I ignore them but sometimes it's hard.

Keep it up! The more you make it past the urges and push away the cravings right when they start, the better you'll get at it. Stress and anxiety are awful, but PMO isn't the answer. These last few months have been good for me in terms of avoiding PMO, but they have also been some of the most stressful and depressing. I guess in some ways I'm grateful: I'm learning early that I can deal with bad stress without relying on PMO to do it.

We'll get through these stressful times, and we'll do it without porn!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Do or die on July 30, 2019, 12:47:05 AM
this is inspiring lero. i am at day 2 today. you also helped me when i am in my hard time. i am very happy for you
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 30, 2019, 04:44:16 AM
this is inspiring lero. i am at day 2 today. you also helped me when i am in my hard time. i am very happy for you

Thanks, man. You can do it too.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 30, 2019, 04:46:43 AM
Keep it up! The more you make it past the urges and push away the cravings right when they start, the better you'll get at it. Stress and anxiety are awful, but PMO isn't the answer. These last few months have been good for me in terms of avoiding PMO, but they have also been some of the most stressful and depressing. I guess in some ways I'm grateful: I'm learning early that I can deal with bad stress without relying on PMO to do it.

We'll get through these stressful times, and we'll do it without porn!

Fuck P.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 30, 2019, 07:31:00 AM
Day 9 (Deny P)

Urges are really strong. P flashbacks feel very tempting. The addicted brain is desperate and wants any microdosing, even the lightest thing possible that raises a little dopamine. But it's a trap. It starts with a little bit to get to a lot. It's like you want to stay away from alcohol but your friend tells you: "Just a glass, bro. It's just one glass." You finally give in and drink one glass which stimulates your drinking appetite and, before you know, you've drunk the whole box. Which leads to: Don't even start! No microdosing! Stay away from every little thing that you know it will stimulate your addicted path! The next checkpoint is 10 days, which is tomorrow.

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: achilles heel on July 30, 2019, 01:59:59 PM
You've got the right attitude, all the best for you as the first weeks are the hardest. Remember that this will get easier as soon as you made it through the heaviest withdrawals. This might seem like eternity, but in reality it's a rather short amout of time suffering and you can and will make it through, because you are really dedicated to overcome this problem. No exceptions, no little dose, just keep walking and distract yourself from dangerous situations as much as possible.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Pete McVries on July 30, 2019, 02:10:11 PM
Good job, Lero keep on going! It gets easier, I promise!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 30, 2019, 02:24:37 PM
Many thanks, guys! You gave me reinforced motivation.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: squid on July 30, 2019, 04:41:42 PM
Great work Lero, don't start!  But if you do, don't continue.  My brain always tries to convince me if I mess up at all that it's okay just to give in for a while.  But it's not, the more often you pmo the stronger the pathway.  Fuck that shit, we're taking another path.  Override baby!  Pave right on over that old path with hot asphalt, we're going somewhere else!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 30, 2019, 05:01:07 PM
Great work Lero, don't start!  But if you do, don't continue.  My brain always tries to convince me if I mess up at all that it's okay just to give in for a while.  But it's not, the more often you pmo the stronger the pathway.  Fuck that shit, we're taking another path.  Override baby!  Pave right on over that old path with hot asphalt, we're going somewhere else!

That's correct. One thing that the brain does is telling you that, as long as you relapsed with edging for 10 minutes, you could go all the way cause what's the difference? The difference is more damage. It's like you hit your finger with the hammer once. Would you hit it 7 more times? But you see, people sometimes don't take care of their brain in the same way. The brain takes damage too.

Everything starts with the craving then you search for material to look at. If you identify the craving first and don't escalate into looking for material, you're good to go. But you have to also know every little P behavior that stimulates your dopamine because okay you stay away from what you consider P and P substitutes but you might not notice some things, like my stupid fetish with looking for information about actresses. There were no pictures there, nothing to look at but I still felt myself stimulated by this behavior. So I had to add that to the forbidden list. Now when the craving for this comes, I see it. Only like this I've made it this far (because it's far for my history).
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 30, 2019, 05:30:58 PM
You're doing great, man!

It's only when you're really committed to getting through the urges without acting on them that you realize just how strong they can get. I remember mine were really strong and lasted for days, but they eventually settled down. Don't be afraid to slow down a little and take care of yourself while they're at their worst. (I wasn't very productive during those days, and it seems like I mostly just watched non-triggering tv shows just to get through the day.) Focus on getting through the day if you have to, and you can worry about catching up on other less-urgent things when the urges settle down.

Also, it's a huge win to cut out looking up actress' info. I was doing a similar thing earlier this year, and I thought it would be okay because it wasn't porn. But it gave me the same feelings and definitely wasn't keeping me away from porn. Just keep being aware of these smaller triggering behaviors and stay on track.

The biggest breakthrough for me has been learning that I can, in fact, outlast the waves of craving. You can too, and we're all rooting for you!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 31, 2019, 02:14:30 AM
You're doing great, man!

It's only when you're really committed to getting through the urges without acting on them that you realize just how strong they can get. I remember mine were really strong and lasted for days, but they eventually settled down. Don't be afraid to slow down a little and take care of yourself while they're at their worst. (I wasn't very productive during those days, and it seems like I mostly just watched non-triggering tv shows just to get through the day.) Focus on getting through the day if you have to, and you can worry about catching up on other less-urgent things when the urges settle down.

Also, it's a huge win to cut out looking up actress' info. I was doing a similar thing earlier this year, and I thought it would be okay because it wasn't porn. But it gave me the same feelings and definitely wasn't keeping me away from porn. Just keep being aware of these smaller triggering behaviors and stay on track.

The biggest breakthrough for me has been learning that I can, in fact, outlast the waves of craving. You can too, and we're all rooting for you!

Thanks, man.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 31, 2019, 02:30:24 AM
Day 10

I gotta say this: Last time, when I had a 10 days streak without looking at anything, without even edging to P flashbacks and fantasies, probably never happened in my life, I don't remember. My longer streaks from the past are not real because I didn't consider edging to P substitutes as being a relapse so I congratulated myself for making it to 2 weeks but I had relapsed on day 5, edging for hours.

The next goal is 2 weeks. I've said this before: It's a miracle how I've made it to 10 days exactly during this period of stress and anxiety. In the past I would've abused PMO for soothing. Why am I writting all this this early? It's for motivation. I can't relapse after writting this, my guilty conscience will beat me in the head with an imaginary baseball bat (that hurts more than a real one).
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: dusty on July 31, 2019, 04:46:32 AM
Day 10

I gotta say this: Last time, when I had a 10 days streak without looking at anything, without even edging to P flashbacks and fantasies, probably never happened in my life, I don't remember. My longer streaks from the past are not real because I didn't consider edging to P substitutes as being a relapse so I congratulated myself for making it to 2 weeks but I had relapsed on day 5, edging for hours.

The next goal is 2 weeks. I've said this before: It's a miracle how I've made it to 10 days exactly during this period of stress and anxiety. In the past I would've abused PMO for soothing. Why am I writting all this this early? It's for motivation. I can't relapse after writting this, my guilty conscience will beat me in the head with an imaginary baseball bat (that hurts more than a real one).

Awesome progress Lero!!  8)
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 31, 2019, 11:09:41 AM
Awesome progress Lero!!  8)

Thanks, man.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on July 31, 2019, 02:09:19 PM
I'm coming with the update for today. Urges left me alone. It was a break from the torture yesterday, which I welcomed. Let's see what intensity the urges will have tomorrow.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: squid on July 31, 2019, 03:34:20 PM
I'm coming with the update for today. Urges left me alone. It was a break from the torture yesterday, which I welcomed. Let's see what intensity the urges will have tomorrow.

Nice work dude!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 31, 2019, 06:21:49 PM
Day 10

I gotta say this: Last time, when I had a 10 days streak without looking at anything, without even edging to P flashbacks and fantasies, probably never happened in my life, I don't remember. My longer streaks from the past are not real because I didn't consider edging to P substitutes as being a relapse so I congratulated myself for making it to 2 weeks but I had relapsed on day 5, edging for hours.

The next goal is 2 weeks. I've said this before: It's a miracle how I've made it to 10 days exactly during this period of stress and anxiety. In the past I would've abused PMO for soothing. Why am I writting all this this early? It's for motivation. I can't relapse after writting this, my guilty conscience will beat me in the head with an imaginary baseball bat (that hurts more than a real one).

This is truly awesome! It's amazing how being stricter can actually make it easier. These are definitely 10 days to be proud of! And I think a goal for 2 weeks (only 4 more days) is an awesome plan.

Really glad to hear the urges have left you alone a little today. Whether they're strong or weak tomorrow, all you have to do is get through one more day! (And then another, but don't worry about that until you're there)

Keep it going!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on August 01, 2019, 06:34:12 AM
Nice work dude!

Thanks, man. You're doing great too.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on August 01, 2019, 06:51:25 AM
This is truly awesome! It's amazing how being stricter can actually make it easier. These are definitely 10 days to be proud of! And I think a goal for 2 weeks (only 4 more days) is an awesome plan.

Really glad to hear the urges have left you alone a little today. Whether they're strong or weak tomorrow, all you have to do is get through one more day! (And then another, but don't worry about that until you're there)

Keep it going!

I said last time that I would become more strict. I just pushed it even further and maybe this was what I needed. You see, I used to sabotage myself with this mentality: "Fuck, man, the urges are killing me! Let me edge for 5 minutes to some light stuff, no P of course. I mean, come on, what's 5 minutes? 5 minutes won't do that much damage. It's not hours and it's not even P. I just want to lower those urges a little bit." Then I started edging to substitutes which destabilized me and gave me that hard to explain feeling when I couldn't control the hunger for more. Before I knew, I had relapsed already. I would stare at the walls in sadness and desperation, thinking about what I had done wrong. All I had wanted was 5 minutes or "light" stuff. So I finally had to stop being like this. I said: "Look, if the solution is complete rest from anything that stimulates the addicted brain, why the fuck do I do that 5 minutes edging to substitutes anyway? Shouldn't I stay away from literally EVERYTHING?" And that's what I began doing. I stood away from absolutely everything that I knew it stimulated my P addicted brain. I made it like a golden rule: "You don't look at anything no matter what. Looking at something, even the lightest thing, will kill you. You just die. Do you want to die? If no, then don't look!" A matter of life and death, that's what I tattooed to my mind. And then I had this revelation about everything: It starts with the craving and then you search for material to look at. But if you don't look at anything no matter what, as if it was a matter of life and death, then you are left with only the craving which can't be fed because you stay away from everything (this includes edging to P flashbacks and P fantasies too which is the hardest part. This is really a hard stuff to do). I implemented this and before I knew, I had 10 "perfect" days for the first time in my life. As I said a little bit earlier, P flashbacks and fantasies are the hardest stuff for me now. I can stay away from looking at anything but those things are another beast. They reside in my head and appear whenever they want to, which injects me with a rush anytime. I've been fighting to stay away from drowning in them. And there are some P induced fantasies that bother me, things that because of P, I always wanted to do. This is hard and if anything made me relapse, it would be those fucking fantasies - first, and P flashbacks - second. Of course, I hope not. I'm getting this out of my chest maybe they lose some of their power.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on August 01, 2019, 09:33:40 AM
Day 11

"There is one key to success in life: You gotta stay relaxed."
"Yeah."
"Do you jerk off?"
"Yeah, I jerk off, yeah."
"How many times a week?"
"Like... Two-three times, maybe four..."
"You gotta pump those numbers up. Those are rookie numbers. I jerk off at least twice a day. Once in the morning, right after I work out, then once right after lunch. I do it cause I fuckin need it. You gotta feed the geese to keep the blood flowing. I keep the rhythm below the belt. This is not a tip, this is a prescription, trust me. If you don't, you will fall out of balance, split your differential and tip the fuck over. Or worse yet, I've seen this happen: Implode."
"No, I don't want to implode."
"Of course, you don't."
"I'm in for the long run, you know?"
"Implosions are ugly."
"Yeah."
"Go to the bathroom and work one out anytime you can."

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on August 01, 2019, 06:21:03 PM
Shouldn't I stay away from literally EVERYTHING?" And that's what I began doing. I stood away from absolutely everything that I knew it stimulated my P addicted brain. I made it like a golden rule: "You don't look at anything no matter what. Looking at something, even the lightest thing, will kill you. You just die. Do you want to die? If no, then don't look!" A matter of life and death, that's what I tattooed to my mind. And then I had this revelation about everything: It starts with the craving and then you search for material to look at. But if you don't look at anything no matter what, as if it was a matter of life and death, then you are left with only the craving which can't be fed because you stay away from everything (this includes edging to P flashbacks and P fantasies too which is the hardest part. This is really a hard stuff to do). I implemented this and before I knew, I had 10 "perfect" days for the first time in my life.

Words to live by! So important to realize that it's how we deal with the "light" stuff that really determines the success of our recovery. If we can control ourselves around the "light" triggers, we won't get to the point of having to worry about the big ones. Just keep it going!

As for the flashbacks and fantasies, I know what you mean. They just pop up when you least expect them. It really helps me to just focus all my attention on my breathing when they come along, and they eventually pass. For the really stubborn fantasies, though, I resort to singing a song that is personally significant to me in my head. Once I have my thoughts focused on the words and tune of my song, those fantasies disappear pretty reliably.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on August 02, 2019, 03:09:42 AM
Words to live by! So important to realize that it's how we deal with the "light" stuff that really determines the success of our recovery. If we can control ourselves around the "light" triggers, we won't get to the point of having to worry about the big ones. Just keep it going!

This is how I usually sabotage myself. My brain finds ways to explain to me that something very "light" won't affect me that much, especially if I only edge for 5 minutes. And this is the push that pushes me out the window. It's necessary just a little bit to get to a lot. So I got so mad about this last time when I relapsed and I said: "Okay, it seems that it won't work unless I don't do anything at all." And it seemed to work.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on August 02, 2019, 06:21:36 AM
Day 12

Hardmode. No P, no P substitutes, no edging to P flashbacks and fantasies, no drowning in fantasies and flashbacks if they come to my mind, and no MO. Complete rest from anything that stimulates my addicted part of brain. I've identified literally everything that activates my addicted brain, now I stay away from it. I think there is no other way. This is the way.

Urges left me alone for two days but today they've been strong. The craving for P drives me crazy, like blood for sharks, but it won't go anywhere because I stay away from everything that feeds it. One day, urges will leave me fucking alone. I need patience because it's not an overnight thing.

I don't know if it's because of P withdrawal but I get angry easily, my patience is short and I'm kind of irritated.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Pete McVries on August 02, 2019, 08:41:39 AM
Try to assess these cravings as a sign of healing. Your addicted brain is like a little child at the supermarket checkout rolling on the floor crying and screaming because you told him that it won't get the Kinder egg. He needs to learn that he can cry as long and as loud as he wants, he won't get the Kinder egg. And he will learn.

Being irritated because of going cold-turkey from an addiction is totally normal. It sucks but it will pass. Embrace the grind ;)

12 days is money in the bank so keep stacking that paper ;D
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on August 02, 2019, 09:47:27 AM
Try to assess these cravings as a sign of healing. Your addicted brain is like a little child at the supermarket checkout rolling on the floor crying and screaming because you told him that it won't get the Kinder egg. He needs to learn that he can cry as long and as loud as he wants, he won't get the Kinder egg. And he will learn.

Being irritated because of going cold-turkey from an addiction is totally normal. It sucks but it will pass. Embrace the grind ;)

12 days is money in the bank so keep stacking that paper ;D

Thanks, man. 365 days for a 360 change. I feel kind of... great. I don't know, I have some sort of well-being that feels so strange because I never have it when I'm heavily invested in P.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Ender on August 02, 2019, 12:35:01 PM
Keep up the awesome work! Your just two days shy of your 14 day goal. Almost there! I know those flashbacks can be tough. When I have tempting thoughts i have a couple responses that help. Sometimes, I'll grab the air near my head and physically throw it away, yelling "BEGONE!" in my head. Also, at my job I work on a machine that basically moves stuff really fast from one end to the other. So when I'm tempted at work, I imagine those thoughts falling out of my head and into the machine where they get chewed up by the gears and belts and spit out at the end. Find some visualization that helps you rid your brain of those thoughts.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on August 02, 2019, 01:39:16 PM
Keep up the awesome work! Your just two days shy of your 14 day goal. Almost there! I know those flashbacks can be tough. When I have tempting thoughts i have a couple responses that help. Sometimes, I'll grab the air near my head and physically throw it away, yelling "BEGONE!" in my head. Also, at my job I work on a machine that basically moves stuff really fast from one end to the other. So when I'm tempted at work, I imagine those thoughts falling out of my head and into the machine where they get chewed up by the gears and belts and spit out at the end. Find some visualization that helps you rid your brain of those thoughts.

Thanks, man. Thanks for advice.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on August 02, 2019, 05:33:26 PM
Keep up the awesome work! Your just two days shy of your 14 day goal. Almost there! I know those flashbacks can be tough. When I have tempting thoughts i have a couple responses that help. Sometimes, I'll grab the air near my head and physically throw it away, yelling "BEGONE!" in my head. Also, at my job I work on a machine that basically moves stuff really fast from one end to the other. So when I'm tempted at work, I imagine those thoughts falling out of my head and into the machine where they get chewed up by the gears and belts and spit out at the end. Find some visualization that helps you rid your brain of those thoughts.

I really like both these ideas, definitely going to keep them in mind for later.

Day 12

Hardmode. No P, no P substitutes, no edging to P flashbacks and fantasies, no drowning in fantasies and flashbacks if they come to my mind, and no MO. Complete rest from anything that stimulates my addicted part of brain. I've identified literally everything that activates my addicted brain, now I stay away from it. I think there is no other way. This is the way.

Urges left me alone for two days but today they've been strong. The craving for P drives me crazy, like blood for sharks, but it won't go anywhere because I stay away from everything that feeds it. One day, urges will leave me fucking alone. I need patience because it's not an overnight thing.

I don't know if it's because of P withdrawal but I get angry easily, my patience is short and I'm kind of irritated.

You know what you need to do and you know that it's been working better than ever before. Stick with it. I always get the worst urges within a couple of days of reaching a goal/milestone. If you're shooting for 14 days, it isn't surprising that things would get tough at day 12. If you hang on a few more days, those urges will give it a rest for a while. You know it now because you have a experienced. The further you go, the more urgeless days you'll have.

Keep at it man! You're doing great!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on August 03, 2019, 04:36:49 AM
You know what you need to do and you know that it's been working better than ever before. Stick with it. I always get the worst urges within a couple of days of reaching a goal/milestone. If you're shooting for 14 days, it isn't surprising that things would get tough at day 12. If you hang on a few more days, those urges will give it a rest for a while. You know it now because you have a experienced. The further you go, the more urgeless days you'll have.

Keep at it man! You're doing great!

Actually, I only thought about the 14 days milestone while writting that post. It wasn't on my mind, so I don't think urges started because I was 2 days away from the milestone, they started cause they wanted to. On day 10 and 11 they were mild but yesterday it was tougher in the first part of the day, then they lowered their intensity.

Anyway, thanks for the support, man. You're doing great too.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on August 03, 2019, 05:05:38 AM
Day 13

Okay, I am back at day 13 but this time is for real. Last time, that was a fake 13th day because I had relapsed on day 7 with edging. This time, these are the cleanest 13 days I've had since I've discovered P. I stood away from anything that I knew it stimulated my addicted brain, which was:

- P, of course;
- Social media pictures;
- Youtube videos;
- Indulging in flashbacks and P related fantasies;
- My fetish with reading information about actresses and movies;
- My fetish with fleshlights and sexual enhancers;
- Thinking about actresses;

The result was mindblowing: I could actually do it. This is the way: Complete rest from anything that feeds the addiction. Without this mindset, I don't think it's possible. I stood away from "anything light", "edging just for 5 minutes to something light", "5 minutes of something light won't affect me that much", and it made all the difference. If I had done that, I would've relapsed already.

Goals for now on:

1) I will stop as early as the craving (urges) starts. I won't look for any material to feed it;
2) If "1" is done right, this leaves only flashbacks and seeing triggers by mistake: I won't indulge in flashbacks. Once they start, I will focus on something else. If I see triggers: I will get up and walk away. I will go to the kitchen, go outside, do some push-ups etc.;
3) I will get mad. If I see a trigger, I will make a disgusted face, look away and say: "Get the fuck out of my face! I know what you're trying to do but I'm not your client anymore. I can't dry the ocean but I can get out of the water". It could be used for flashbacks too. Being disgusted with P is a great idea.






Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Pete McVries on August 03, 2019, 05:29:46 AM
Very good, I'm proud of you! The way you describe it, I think you are on the way to recognizing a very healthy pattern as a byproduct. A lot of these things you are cutting out of your life are probably surrogates for the things you would like to have in your life. But it's totally symptomatic for our times to turn to these surrogates instead of doing the 'right' thing and go for the real stuff because it's accessible easily and from everywhere. You are feeling lonely? Browse social media for hours! You are longing for female companionship/love? PMO is the answer! You feel the need as a man to have responsibilites and 'get shit done'? Videogames make you feel that way! Same with youtube. There are so many great videos out there but why not pick a specific topic and buy 1-2 books about that topic and go into deep learning mode? All these things are not bad per se but if you use them for the wrong reasons and waste your time and use them for a faltering satisfaction of needs then all these things will most likely have bad effects on you. And I think, you are starting to recognize that pattern. Porn is just the worst of them all with regards to the addiction it causes and the eventual destruction of your sexual health... And, I have a feeling that by tackling the worst problem and looking for solutions things will improve hand in hand. For example, I used to play a lot of video games. Initially, I liked to play a lot but over time as my situation got worse, I continued playing them because I sorta had nothing elso to do. Like stale bread, it kept me alive but it didn't taste any longer. When I started my reboot, I also decreased my play time a lot without even actively thinking about it. It just happend. And that also had a healthy effect on me. And nowadays I really enjoy playing again when I do. Because I consciously do it when I'm really in the mood to do so. A healthy hobby so to so and not a surrogate I use because my life is so bleak.

I'd also like to add that if you were to relapse, you now know that it can be done. It really can be done. I think this experience was crucial for you. PMO addicts of all ages, colors, addiction levels have recovered and found a way to not act out anymore. You can do it too, it's entirely possible!

You have a great weekend! :)
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on August 03, 2019, 06:18:41 AM
A lot of these things you are cutting out of your life are probably surrogates for the things you would like to have in your life. But it's totally symptomatic for our times to turn to these surrogates instead of doing the 'right' thing and go for the real stuff because it's accessible easily and from everywhere. You are feeling lonely? Browse social media for hours! You are longing for female companionship/love? PMO is the answer! You feel the need as a man to have responsibilites and 'get shit done'? Videogames make you feel that way! Same with youtube. There are so many great videos out there but why not pick a specific topic and buy 1-2 books about that topic and go into deep learning mode? All these things are not bad per se but if you use them for the wrong reasons and waste your time and use them for a faltering satisfaction of needs then all these things will most likely have bad effects on you. And I think, you are starting to recognize that pattern.

I know exactly what you mean. That's how those things are created. They promise a fast, easily accesible fix for your problems but they become a problem themselves.

Quote
Porn is just the worst of them all with regards to the addiction it causes and the eventual destruction of your sexual health... And, I have a feeling that by tackling the worst problem and looking for solutions things will improve hand in hand. For example, I used to play a lot of video games. Initially, I liked to play a lot but over time as my situation got worse, I continued playing them because I sorta had nothing elso to do. Like stale bread, it kept me alive but it didn't taste any longer. When I started my reboot, I also decreased my play time a lot without even actively thinking about it. It just happend. And that also had a healthy effect on me. And nowadays I really enjoy playing again when I do. Because I consciously do it when I'm really in the mood to do so. A healthy hobby so to so and not a surrogate I use because my life is so bleak. 

Yeah, man, P has been my sex life, my soothing, my everything. Without knowing, it's become a big problem. I used to play video games too because of nothing else to do, however my biggest problem was Internet use for this purpose, because I was so close to P. I used to spend a lot of time on Youtube until I saw some video or thumbnail, or read things on websites and see triggers on the side. But I guess, once you stop using P as a cope, maybe other things that you've been using as a cope start to lose their power? Internet and video games eat your time and you don't have time for doing other things that you want to do (like going to gym, starting a hobby, getting knowledgeable etc.)

Anyway, thanks for the support, man. I appreciate it.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: rob24 on August 03, 2019, 10:06:12 AM
Day 13

Okay, I am back at day 13 but this time is for real. Last time, that was a fake 13th day because I had relapsed on day 7 with edging. This time, these are the cleanest 13 days I've had since I've discovered P. I stood away from anything that I knew it stimulated my addicted brain, which was:

- P, of course;
- Social media pictures;
- Youtube videos;
- Indulging in flashbacks and P related fantasies;
- My fetish with reading information about actresses and movies;
- My fetish with fleshlights and sexual enhancers;
- Thinking about actresses;

The result was mindblowing: I could actually do it. This is the way: Complete rest from anything that feeds the addiction. Without this mindset, I don't think it's possible. I stood away from "anything light", "edging just for 5 minutes to something light", "5 minutes of something light won't affect me that much", and it made all the difference. If I had done that, I would've relapsed already.

Goals for now on:

1) I will stop as early as the craving (urges) starts. I won't look for any material to feed it;
2) If "1" is done right, this leaves only flashbacks and seeing triggers by mistake: I won't indulge in flashbacks. Once they start, I will focus on something else. If I see triggers: I will get up and walk away. I will go to the kitchen, go outside, do some push-ups etc.;
3) I will get mad. If I see a trigger, I will make a disgusted face, look away and say: "Get the fuck out of my face! I know what you're trying to do but I'm not your client anymore. I can't dry the ocean but I can get out of the water". It could be used for flashbacks too. Being disgusted with P is a great idea.

Nice job Lero - wish I could say that my reboot has been as clean as yours. But you inspire me and helped me try new things to help change my thought patterns. Similar struggles here. Keep up the good work though!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on August 03, 2019, 11:58:07 AM
Nice job Lero - wish I could say that my reboot has been as clean as yours. But you inspire me and helped me try new things to help change my thought patterns. Similar struggles here. Keep up the good work though!

Thanks, man. I even surprised myself with how clean my reboot has been so far. It seems that adding that last piece made everything work.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Do or die on August 03, 2019, 12:43:55 PM
Be there till it's not over.  It's your struggle bro.  Nobody does it without you.  And you are doing for yourself.  So without doing better,  do perfect.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: rob24 on August 03, 2019, 12:54:53 PM
Nice job Lero - wish I could say that my reboot has been as clean as yours. But you inspire me and helped me try new things to help change my thought patterns. Similar struggles here. Keep up the good work though!

Thanks, man. I even surprised myself with how clean my reboot has been so far. It seems that adding that last piece made everything work.
Yeah man - tell me about it - I had gone so far in the past as to destroy a $800 laptop while far away from home to make it impossible for me to relapse, but still relapsed. It seems that this whole entirely-giving-up-artificial/imagined-sexual-stimulation-thing really makes a huge difference. Even just my awareness of the fact that I've been relapsing in thought patterns when I entertain fantasies/use subs has changed a lot.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on August 03, 2019, 01:24:08 PM
Yeah man - tell me about it - I had gone so far in the past as to destroy a $800 laptop while far away from home to make it impossible for me to relapse, but still relapsed. It seems that this whole entirely-giving-up-artificial/imagined-sexual-stimulation-thing really makes a huge difference. Even just my awareness of the fact that I've been relapsing in thought patterns when I entertain fantasies/use subs has changed a lot.

This was the only thing that saved me: Staying away from everything that stimulated my addicted brain. I needed to start with this mindset. It had been a process of identifying all the things that I used for the dopamine fix. I did some thinking and said: "Alright, now I know every little thing. There are no more surprises here." I saw that everything started with the urges (which brought along the craving for P) and then I started searching for material to look at. But I'd become able to see it coming. Like: "Okay, now there is this craving for P and my brain wants me to look at some 'normal' pictures. No, I will not look at anything, because I know that this stimulates my addicted brain," aka it brings that "arousal", and the "good feeling" particular to this stimulation. Having indulged in everything from hardcore P, to softcore P, nudity, pictures, Youtube videos, flashbacks, P related fantasies, I knew that they were all the things I would've used if I had wanted the dopamine fix. So I said to myself: "I will not look deliberately for them no matter what, like a matter of life and death." And that's what I did. This is what worked for me. Of course, there is still this warning: Beware of P flashbacks and P related fantasies. They are not as simple as staying away from triggers. They reside in our minds and will pop up anytime they want, because the brain is still addicted. This is a hard part. I've been trying to stay away from "drowning" in them, from paying attention to them for more than the initial 1 second. But this part about flashbacks and fantasies is hard. I'm still working on it myself. Okay, so once you develop the mindset, then go out and live your life. Ah, and before I forget, I should not end without saying this: You could still bump into triggers accidently, but I've devoped this "disgust for P". If I saw a trigger, I became disgusted and said: "Ah, no, get the fuck outta here! I'm not your client anymore!" And then walked away from there. One second, that's all it could do and then it lost me. Urges could be strong but they don't kill us, they are just a feeling.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on August 03, 2019, 06:40:14 PM
This is the way: Complete rest from anything that feeds the addiction. Without this mindset, I don't think it's possible. I stood away from "anything light", "edging just for 5 minutes to something light", "5 minutes of something light won't affect me that much", and it made all the difference.

Awesome stuff! Quit fueling the fire, and it will die. I think this is the mysterious secret we're all looking for, and it's not that mysterious. We just have to quit triggering ourselves with the light stuff.

Ah, and before I forget, I should not end without saying this: You could still bump into triggers accidently, but I've devoped this "disgust for P". If I saw a trigger, I became disgusted and said: "Ah, no, get the fuck outta here! I'm not your client anymore!" And then walked away from there. One second, that's all it could do and then it lost me. Urges could be strong but they don't kill us, they are just a feeling.

And this is a great thing not to forget. We can have a great plan for how we will avoid triggering ourselves, but there are still things that will catch us by surprise. We really have to have a plan for how to deal those, too. Honestly, in the last couple months, the triggers that have been triggering for me were the ones that came by surprise (unexpected thoughts or seeing something I wasn't planning to see).

I'd also like to add that if you were to relapse, you now know that it can be done. It really can be done. I think this experience was crucial for you. PMO addicts of all ages, colors, addiction levels have recovered and found a way to not act out anymore. You can do it too, it's entirely possible!

And, man, this is really great, too. It's so important to stay strong and stay clean, but it's also worthwhile to recognize that a relapse is still possible, no matter how far we go or how well we've got it all figured out. The farther I get from my last relapse, the more confident I feel that I can continue to stay clean. But I also have to make sure that my world won't collapse around me if I do relapse. If a relapse does happen, it's not the end of the world. It's just one more learning experience in this lifelong journey of recovery. (Not that anyone is planning to relapse!)

But I'm really happy for your man! Your progress these last couple weeks has been really inspiring, and I'm excited to see what else you learn and teach us as you continue this streak!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on August 04, 2019, 04:15:02 AM
Thanks, @Blue, I appreciate the support and advice.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on August 04, 2019, 04:43:12 AM
2 weeks

I am astonished to write "2 weeks" here. These have been the cleanest 2 weeks I've ever had.

2 months ago, when I joined this forum, I couldn't even go a week without doing something. I felt lost. I had doubts that I could actually make significant progress. I thought I knew what I had to do but I didn't understand why I kept relapsing. What did I do wrong? I couldn't really figure it out.

I made it to 13 days but it was a fake streak. I wanted to believe I had 13 days, but I had edged like 3-4 times before. They were not clean 13 days. Eventually, the edging sabotaged me and I relapsed the next day. I felt disappointed, desperate, sad, depressed, lost, confused etc. A lot of emotions at once. "What the fuck do I really do wrong? What's actually the problem?" And then, during the pain, everything "clicked". I had a "conversation with myself", that went something like this:
"Man, are you blind or something? It's right in front of you. How did you relapse the last time?"
"Well, I started edging on day 7."
"Okay, but how did you start edging?"
"I had hard urges and I said that edging for only 5 minutes to something light will not affect me that much. It will just lower those urges a little bit."
"And where did this lead to?"
"I relapsed."
"So what should you really do?"
"I guess I have to stay away from that."

Everything made sense all of a sudden. I had to stay away from sabotaging myself with edging like that, stay away from looking at anything deliberately, and maybe I had a chance. I thought it might work someday, but I didn't think it would come right with the next streak.

I stood away from everything that stimulated my addicted brain, no matter how light. I stood away from edging, even for 1 second, I stood away from grabbing my dick, I walked away from accidental triggers, I made triggers hard to find, I stood away from self-medicating myself with P, and before I knew I woke up this morning realizing I have a 2 weeks streak, a real 2 weeks streak. This is big deal for me. For years I've never made it to even 1 real week, without looking at something or edging. Things don't have to be complicated. I went back to basics and it paid off. I used to think about what complicated, sophisticated plan should I have to tie a longer streak, but what helped me was right there, in the basics.

There are 2 hard things that I've been dealing with during this streak:

1) Urges. They have moments when they are strong. The craving for P drives me crazy sometimes. I have violent impulses to "go back and watch my favorite scenes for one last time." I have a hard desire to experience the pleasure of P for the last time before I quit. But everything is a trap. There is no "one last time". I've had thousands of "one last times". It's never enough. The brain is never satisfied with "one last time". It wants P continously. So I had to watch out and stay away from acting out while walking around with a strong craving for P.

2) P flashbacks and P induced fantasies. This one is very hard. Staying away from watching anything is one thing, but those fucking things come into my head when they want. It's been a fight to stay away from indulging in them or edging to them. I used to do this a tone. But now, it's all become clear to me: I have to stay away from absolutely every P behavior if I want to succeed. My 2 weeks streak is the proof that, by doing this right, you have success.

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: achilles heel on August 04, 2019, 05:02:20 AM
It's just awesome and inspiring to read this and to see how you evolved after all your desperation. You found the key, you've got the right way in front of you. It's now about consistency, making one step at a time. And even if you might relapse or have a bad moment: Remember your conversation with yourself and go right back to the path that will lead you to freedom. Leaving porn behind is possible and it's the only way to a better life, porn is not an option!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on August 04, 2019, 05:36:41 AM
It's just awesome and inspiring to read this and to see how you evolved after all your desperation. You found the key, you've got the right way in front of you. It's now about consistency, making one step at a time. And even if you might relapse or have a bad moment: Remember your conversation with yourself and go right back to the path that will lead you to freedom. Leaving porn behind is possible and it's the only way to a better life, porn is not an option!

Thanks, bro. I think I've finally found the last piece of puzzle that I needed. Now a relapse would only start in my mind. If I don't look deliberately for any material, I have nothing to jerk off too. Of course, there are fantasies and flashbacks, I know. If anything sabotages me, it's this, and I wish it doesn't. I have to make ignoring flashbacks and fantasies a routine that runs instinctively. Honestly, it's not the urges, it's not my insatiable craving and love for P, it's not even accidental triggers, the hardest part right now is the P from my head. I have Gb of P stored in my mind.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on August 04, 2019, 05:43:36 AM
After 2 weeks, I've noticed some small benefits:

- More energy;
- Less anxiety;
- Things bother me a little less;
- I have more mood to do things;
- Aggression bothers me a little less;
- OCD is lower;

I'm writting this now to compare it to the future and see if things will fluctuate.

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on August 04, 2019, 06:24:59 AM
Urges are hard but they are nothing compared to how they become if you watch/look at something. It's like a fire that you pour gas on. It will get so big and out of control. The urges will transform into something so intense and uncontrollable and, combined with the craving for more, I don't think you are able to get out of there. The solution is not to start in the first place. If you feel like the urges are killing you, think about how intense they get when you act out. Lower is always better. I feel like there is a maximum of how urges feel when you don't watch/look at any material. Peek at that material and they explode.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: rob24 on August 04, 2019, 09:32:26 AM
Urges are hard but they are nothing compared to how they become if you watch/look at something. It's like a fire that you pour gas on. It will get so big and out of control. The urges will transform into something so intense and uncontrollable and, combined with the craving for more, I don't think you are able to get out of there. The solution is not to start in the first place. If you feel like the urges are killing you, think about how intense they get when you act out. Lower is always better. I feel like there is a maximum of how urges feel when you don't watch/look at any material. Peek at that material and they explode.
I read something on getting stronger.org under the psychology section that called this phenomenon "extinction bursts." And they're a known psychological phenomenon. Whenever your brain is deprived of it's fix for any type of craving or addiction, the urges become stronger, and if you give in to them, it will continue to reinforce the addictive pathways...And if I read the article correctly, it may even cause greater reinforcement of the addiction when you"cave" in to these greater urges.

Thanks to you, Lero, for helping me see that we need to cut out sexual thoughts completely for a smooth reboot. The thought that we're all in this together greatly inspires me as well. I can't let any of you down
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on August 04, 2019, 09:52:23 AM
I read something on getting stronger.org under the psychology section that called this phenomenon "extinction bursts." And they're a known psychological phenomenon. Whenever your brain is deprived of it's fix for any type of craving or addiction, the urges become stronger, and if you give in to them, it will continue to reinforce the addictive pathways...And if I read the article correctly, it may even cause greater reinforcement of the addiction when you"cave" in to these greater urges.

That's what it is. We know what's our "drug" that feeds the addicted brain so staying away from the drug is what we are supposed to do. In our case, the drug is porn and everything related to it. It's not as simple as a substance. "Okay, I'm a heroin addict so no more heroin." "No more porn" is always tricky, until you figure it out. Porn is more complex than that. So when people say heroin is the hardest addiction to quit or meth, I would say porn.

Quote
Thanks to you, Lero, for helping me see that we need to cut out sexual thoughts completely for a smooth reboot. The thought that we're all in this together greatly inspires me as well. I can't let any of you down.

Thanks, man. I'm glad that my realizations could help someone. The best way to quit porn is by total abstinence from everything. This includes the so-annoying porn flashbacks and porn induced fantasies. Porn is watching it, thinking about it, fantasizing about it, flashbacks etc. All those activate that addicted brain. I like to simplify it like this: Do you know when your addicted brain is stimulated? How does it feel? Good, if you know, then anything that makes you feel like that is to be written on the forbidden list and avoided like HIV.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: rob24 on August 04, 2019, 12:03:13 PM
Good call. And sound logic, too! And I never thought about heroin or other drug addiction that way, but it's a really good point. I suppose alcoholics must go through similar things to porn addicts since it's so prevalent in society. Always made me feel pathetic since I was addicted to something that didn't involve physically introducing any other substances or chemicals into my body like other addictions, but you've got a good point. It might even be considered "artificial/imagined stimulation" addiction.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on August 04, 2019, 01:05:48 PM
Good call. And sound logic, too! And I never thought about heroin or other drug addiction that way, but it's a really good point. I suppose alcoholics must go through similar things to porn addicts since it's so prevalent in society. Always made me feel pathetic since I was addicted to something that didn't involve physically introducing any other substances or chemicals into my body like other addictions, but you've got a good point. It might even be considered "artificial/imagined stimulation" addiction.

For sure it's artificial stimulation. Someone looks different in real life. It's that change of how it looks to the eye. One day I looked at girls and they looked strange because they were not on a screen. I didn't really realize it right away but after I found out about P, it made complete sense.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on August 04, 2019, 06:37:08 PM
It's just awesome and inspiring to read this and to see how you evolved after all your desperation. You found the key, you've got the right way in front of you. It's now about consistency, making one step at a time. And even if you might relapse or have a bad moment: Remember your conversation with yourself and go right back to the path that will lead you to freedom. Leaving porn behind is possible and it's the only way to a better life, porn is not an option!

Couldn't have said it better myself! Your last couple weeks' of posts have been really inspiring. Huge congratulations on two honestly clean weeks!

Here's to 2 weeks and 1 day!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Arthur2 on August 04, 2019, 07:40:25 PM
Congratulations on your two weeks !
We learn good stuff in the previous comments on your journal; like how a 13 days streak was fake because you edged, and the way to accommplish a real streak is to completly deny looking for the "mild" material that will eventually lead to M.

And i relate to the fact that the hardest part is the P that is downloaded in our brain.

I am new to this forum and already Learning a lot.

Stay strong fellow warriors ! We fight side by side.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on August 05, 2019, 03:54:27 AM
Congratulations on your two weeks !
We learn good stuff in the previous comments on your journal; like how a 13 days streak was fake because you edged, and the way to accommplish a real streak is to completly deny looking for the "mild" material that will eventually lead to M.

And i relate to the fact that the hardest part is the P that is downloaded in our brain.

I am new to this forum and already Learning a lot.

Stay strong fellow warriors ! We fight side by side.

Thanks, man. I appreciate it. That's right, I've eliminated the last thing that made me relapse, in hope it would not make me relapse again and it hasn't so far. The hardest part for me is the porn from my mind.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on August 05, 2019, 04:37:15 AM
Day 15

Half a month.

I had a dream about edging to P flashbacks then I woke up and I couldn't realize whether it was a dream or reality. I had this panic, like: "Oh shit, did I just edge to flashbacks?" It took me like 5 minutes to understand it had been just a dream and I had done nothing.

It's the second P dream that I've had during this streak. A few days ago, I woke up when I was right in the middle of a P dream about a scene that I had kept trying not to think of during the day (I was dying to watch it and it kept coming into my mind but I kept ignoring it), and I felt those huge, uncontrollable urges. I was so aroused, like sitting in front of the computer and watching P. I was 1 second away from starting edging but I got up and got back to my senses. Then I said: "Fucking stupid shit, man! I almost started fucking edging to this fucking thing!" Being able to stop myself like that was crazy. I couldn't believe I had this ability. The mindset came into play, like the golden rule: Starve the addicted pathway.

Today the urges have been very strong. There is this unbelieveable craving to go back and watch my favorite scenes for one last time. P flashbacks remind me of what I'm missing. I feel this "sadness" for leaving this amazing pleasure behind, for giving up on that extremely awesome dopamine hit. There is nothing that raises dopamine like P, so of course we love it, it feels amazing, only this alone is enough for you to get hooked on P. Sometimes I have flashes of thoughts telling me: "I don't think you could really do this. It's hard. The urges are insane. And P feels amazing, right?" But here is the thing: I know that P recovery is pain. it's an addiction and every addiction has withdrawal. But it never lasts forever for any addiction. It's a relatively small period of time in comparison to the rest of my life. One day, this craving for P should leave me alone.

I have moments when I want to relapse so bad just to feel the pleasure but I don't want to go back to day 1. I'm tired of waiting for the streak to take shape. Waiting 15 days again? I really don't have patience for this. Also, it will never be easier. I could relapse now but, next time, going back to 15 days again will be just as hard. I want to go through this once and be done with it. I can't wait for the day when P is no more the thing that occupies the biggest part of my mind. I want to wake up without flashbacks, I want to dream about P no more, I want to be able to do things during the day without P coming into my mind out of nowhere. And for this to happen, there is no other way but complete the recovery.

Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: squid on August 05, 2019, 07:09:11 AM
Hang in there Lero.  I had a dream last night about P too.  I woke up horrified that I pmoed but I didn't.  I like to think of it like my brain dumping out the P memories and cleaning things up while I sleep. 
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: achilles heel on August 05, 2019, 10:44:10 AM
Hang in there a little more, this will definitely decrease once you made it through the first month. There will be a different kind of challenge beyond this point, but for the first month it's just about enduring cravings, depression, withdrawals and all kinds of trouble. You are already halfway through the worst stage and this really sucks. I never want to go back to "day 1" again and neither do you. Just set your next goal to be 16 days and you are already one step closer. You can do it!  :)
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Arthur2 on August 05, 2019, 01:03:15 PM
This "one last time" thought that we all battle against is keeping people in bondage their entire life.

Because it will just be one relapse after an other until death if you yield.

I have obeyed it many times in the past, coupled with lame excuses like i am tired, sad, i need to relax bla bla bla.

But sadness and fatigue and neediness are necessary steps for the recovery process, so every time you succesfully battle the thoughts of giving up, you get closer to the goal.

Hang in there man, and stay strong because i need you for advice and foresight (you are 12 days ahead on that journey).
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on August 05, 2019, 02:01:26 PM
Hang in there Lero.  I had a dream last night about P too.  I woke up horrified that I pmoed but I didn't.  I like to think of it like my brain dumping out the P memories and cleaning things up while I sleep.

Yeah, man, I woke up petrified, thinking: "Oh, no, I edged to flashbacks! Fuck! But I'm staying away from this!" Then I realized: "Hold on, man, I actually didn't do this. It was just the dream." Goddamn, man, it felt so real, I can't believe this. I don't know what it is, maybe my brain invades myself with P even in sleep. The thing is, during the day, I had an unbelieveable craving to watch a particular P scene. I kept saying "No! I won't watch that!" And then I dream about the same very fucking scene. I can't believe this. Anyway, thanks for the encouragement.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on August 05, 2019, 02:02:54 PM
Hang in there a little more, this will definitely decrease once you made it through the first month. There will be a different kind of challenge beyond this point, but for the first month it's just about enduring cravings, depression, withdrawals and all kinds of trouble. You are already halfway through the worst stage and this really sucks. I never want to go back to "day 1" again and neither do you. Just set your next goal to be 16 days and you are already one step closer. You can do it!  :)

Thanks, man. You words come at the right time for reinforced motivation. I can't wait until those urges and craving for P at least decrease considerably.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on August 05, 2019, 02:04:55 PM
This "one last time" thought that we all battle against is keeping people in bondage their entire life.

Because it will just be one relapse after an other until death if you yield.

I have obeyed it many times in the past, coupled with lame excuses like i am tired, sad, i need to relax bla bla bla.

But sadness and fatigue and neediness are necessary steps for the recovery process, so every time you succesfully battle the thoughts of giving up, you get closer to the goal.

Hang in there man, and stay strong because i need you for advice and foresight (you are 12 days ahead on that journey).

Thanks, man. I know exactly what you're talking about. It's the addiction talking to us that we could do it just one more time and then decide to quit. But how many "one last times" did I have until now? Thousands? So when exactly will this "last time" really be? You know when? Now. Because this is the last time I'm fighting this. After this I'm done with this problem.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on August 05, 2019, 02:45:42 PM
This is the update for today:

1) My dick shrunk. This fucking sucks.
2) My anxiety is still very high.

In rest, the same no peeking, no edging, walking away from triggers in the first second, ignoring flashbacks and fantasies.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: squid on August 05, 2019, 07:45:51 PM
You got this Lero, focus on what you want and forget about toxic things like P.  Over two weeks!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on August 05, 2019, 08:30:11 PM
Hang in there a little more, this will definitely decrease once you made it through the first month. There will be a different kind of challenge beyond this point, but for the first month it's just about enduring cravings, depression, withdrawals and all kinds of trouble. You are already halfway through the worst stage and this really sucks. I never want to go back to "day 1" again and neither do you. Just set your next goal to be 16 days and you are already one step closer. You can do it!  :)

Very true! I want to second this completely. I remember those early days of just having to slog through the most intense urges. It has been a long time, though, since something like that has happened. So hang in there: the intensity of the cravings is a phase that will also pass. It's a different challenge, but maybe not as scary.

Dreams are crazy. I think they have probably messed me up more than anything else. I can't count how many PMO dreams I had and then woken up relieved that it wasn't real. It's been a long time since I can remember having any kind of PMO dream, but the last couple I do remember involved me deciding not to PMO, lol. So I guess eventually your dreams get the message and you can keep yourself on track even in dreamland.

Just keep at it. This is a lifelong struggle, but, based on my experience in the last few months, the early days are definitely the hardest. These are the days that count. Just focus on getting through them and then getting back to life when the urges settle back down!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: rob24 on August 05, 2019, 10:02:26 PM
Nice job making it back! You helped me realize that it's all the thoughts of sex altogether that are honestly still triggering me. I am starting to feel increasingly normal in society and not having to waste energy pushing away perverted sexual thoughts about every woman I see. Even just watching something on Netflix the other day made me realize how incredibly oversaturated the media is with all of this junk on body image and sex - you're made to feel like you don't have enough at every turn - even in the seemingly most innocuous things, like comedy specials. Thanks Lero.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on August 06, 2019, 07:21:30 AM
Nice job making it back! You helped me realize that it's all the thoughts of sex altogether that are honestly still triggering me. I am starting to feel increasingly normal in society and not having to waste energy pushing away perverted sexual thoughts about every woman I see. Even just watching something on Netflix the other day made me realize how incredibly oversaturated the media is with all of this junk on body image and sex - you're made to feel like you don't have enough at every turn - even in the seemingly most innocuous things, like comedy specials. Thanks Lero.

I'm glad I've helped you in any way, man.

The movies/series nowadays are designed like this intentionally. Realizing this made me disgusted and I couldn't look at them with the same eyes.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on August 06, 2019, 07:22:06 AM
Hang in there a little more, this will definitely decrease once you made it through the first month. There will be a different kind of challenge beyond this point, but for the first month it's just about enduring cravings, depression, withdrawals and all kinds of trouble. You are already halfway through the worst stage and this really sucks. I never want to go back to "day 1" again and neither do you. Just set your next goal to be 16 days and you are already one step closer. You can do it!  :)

Very true! I want to second this completely. I remember those early days of just having to slog through the most intense urges. It has been a long time, though, since something like that has happened. So hang in there: the intensity of the cravings is a phase that will also pass. It's a different challenge, but maybe not as scary.

Dreams are crazy. I think they have probably messed me up more than anything else. I can't count how many PMO dreams I had and then woken up relieved that it wasn't real. It's been a long time since I can remember having any kind of PMO dream, but the last couple I do remember involved me deciding not to PMO, lol. So I guess eventually your dreams get the message and you can keep yourself on track even in dreamland.

Just keep at it. This is a lifelong struggle, but, based on my experience in the last few months, the early days are definitely the hardest. These are the days that count. Just focus on getting through them and then getting back to life when the urges settle back down!

Thanks, man. Your experience is a gift for me.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on August 06, 2019, 08:00:08 AM
You got this Lero, focus on what you want and forget about toxic things like P.  Over two weeks!

Thanks, man.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on August 06, 2019, 08:27:29 AM
Day 16

The urges are brutal. The craving for porn drives me crazy, like the smell of barbecue after three days of starvation. This is, seriously, extremely hard. After going cold turkey way past my limit (16 days from 4 days), it really made me realize how hard this process is. It's the hardest thing I have to do in this life. The day when those urges leave me alone seems like an eternity from here. Porn is the dominant thing in my mind and I don't even think about it. It invades my mind constantly, on its own. I do something and then I realize I'm looking at a flashback.

In the end, let me ask a question: Who wants to make sixty bucks? The quicker you declare yourself "no more an addict", the quicker you get your sixty bucks.

Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Arthur2 on August 06, 2019, 01:44:07 PM
Quotaion from Lero (i don' t know how to do these quotations) :

"Thanks, man. I know exactly what you're talking about. It's the addiction talking to us that we could do it just one more time and then decide to quit. But how many "one last times" did I have until now? Thousands? So when exactly will this "last time" really be? You know when? Now. Because this is the last time I'm fighting this. After this I'm done with this problem. "

I am glad you strongly decided to stop it for good. I am following you closely ad your testimony help me realize that my own addiction is not too bad after all. So you are probably fighting a more difficult battle than i, but everyone is fighting his own.

Also, don' t worry about your dick shrinking man.

I may sound stupid and it is, but many times i have wondered "is it still gonna work ? Is my dick still working ? Is it still gonna be efficient when i get a wife if i don' t practice ?"

But these very silly (and dangerous)thoughts are thoughts tht are given to us by the pronographic and performance-obsessed society we live in.
And our journey IS exactly to get rid of these type of ideas.

Hang in there. Don't let that botter you and make you doubt.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 06, 2019, 02:08:34 PM
Quotaion from Lero (i don' t know how to do these quotations)

To quote a text you have to write [quote ] at the beginning and [/quote ] at the end, but without the space between "e" and "]". I had to write it like this because I couldn't show you otherwise, it will become a quote.

Quote
I am glad you strongly decided to stop it for good. I am following you closely ad your testimony help me realize that my own addiction is not too bad after all. So you are probably fighting a more difficult battle than i, but everyone is fighting his own.

Also, don' t worry about your dick shrinking man.

I may sound stupid and it is, but many times i have wondered "is it still gonna work ? Is my dick still working ? Is it still gonna be efficient when i get a wife if i don' t practice ?"

But these very silly (and dangerous)thoughts are thoughts tht are given to us by the pronographic and performance-obsessed society we live in.
And our journey IS exactly to get rid of these type of ideas.

Hang in there. Don't let that botter you and make you doubt.

Thanks, bro. I appreciate it. Yes, there comes a time when the last try has to be the last. We should know by now that the addiction knows how to seduce us. It knows how to make us do it "one last time". But there is never an "one last time". The addiction wants the drug over and over and over again. One day we gotta put an end to this or otherwise we will never quit it. I don't doubt that there will be people who won't be able to beat this addiction (unfortunately), but I won't be one of them. I'm struggling, it's hard, urges are brutal, the craving for the dopamine drives me crazy, the button (porn), that opens the gate for dopamine, keeps visiting me in my memory.

About the dick, I could swear I noticed it had gotten smaller. But I've heard that it could happen during the reboot so it should get back to normal when the time comes.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 06, 2019, 03:20:39 PM
Promising us happiness, porn became a crutch and turned us into a cripple. After using this crutch for years, we are glad to be able to walk but we forgot we should run. Fuck the crutch! Start getting rid of it today! It's never too late. Too late is when you are already dead. We are not dead but we feel like we are. Start getting your life back in this very minute! When you think you've reached your limits, it's only the beginning.
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on August 06, 2019, 06:43:08 PM
Day 16

The urges are brutal. The craving for porn drives me crazy, like the smell of barbecue after three days of starvation. This is, seriously, extremely hard. After going cold turkey way past my limit (16 days from 4 days), it really made me realize how hard this process is. It's the hardest thing I have to do in this life. The day when those urges leave me alone seems like an eternity from here. Porn is the dominant thing in my mind and I don't even think about it. It invades my mind constantly, on its own. I do something and then I realize I'm looking at a flashback.

In the end, let me ask a question: Who wants to make sixty bucks? The quicker you declare yourself "no more an addict", the quicker you get your sixty bucks.

The urges are brutal. They're relentless, and they feel like they're going to swallow you up. It hurts to do anything that isn't relapsing. I have strong memories of how foggy and wrecked I felt when the urges were at their worst. I think the only thing I could really do was watch tv. My addicted brain was throwing a tantrum.

On those days, I really couldn't contemplate my streak. If I thought about going two weeks feeling that bad, I would have given up right then and relapsed. The only way I could get through them was by focusing on one day at a time. I told myself, "These urges are the worst I've ever felt. I don't know if I can handle this forever. I might not be able to. But I do know that I can handle them today. I definitely can get through today."

This is why every day counts. No matter how bad they get, you can get through one day. Just go one day at a time. Continue to take some courage in knowing that the urges will, 100% eventually settle down and give up for a while. And once you beat them at their worst, you'll be far more capable of dealing with them at their normal strength.

You got this!
Title: Re: Hang in there. Withdrawal doesn't last forever.
Post by: Lero on August 07, 2019, 04:00:09 AM
The urges are brutal. They're relentless, and they feel like they're going to swallow you up. It hurts to do anything that isn't relapsing. I have strong memories of how foggy and wrecked I felt when the urges were at their worst. I think the only thing I could really do was watch tv. My addicted brain was throwing a tantrum.

On those days, I really couldn't contemplate my streak. If I thought about going two weeks feeling that bad, I would have given up right then and relapsed. The only way I could get through them was by focusing on one day at a time. I told myself, "These urges are the worst I've ever felt. I don't know if I can handle this forever. I might not be able to. But I do know that I can handle them today. I definitely can get through today."

This is why every day counts. No matter how bad they get, you can get through one day. Just go one day at a time. Continue to take some courage in knowing that the urges will, 100% eventually settle down and give up for a while. And once you beat them at their worst, you'll be far more capable of dealing with them at their normal strength.

You got this!

It's this torturous craving/desire for dopamine. I don't know if it's included in the "urges" category. I'm not talking about "that arousal" that you feel when you say you are dealing with "urges", I'm talking about this craving for the dopamine hit that drives me crazy. It's like they put you in a cell, starve you for 3 days then put a barbecue plate in front of you and you can't reach it. I feel like I walk up the walls with this craving for dopamine.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 07, 2019, 04:05:25 AM
Day 17

The craving for dopamine drives me crazy. I feel irritated and I get angry easily. After staying away from my "sex life (PMO)" for 17 days, I am dealing with this frustration for having no sex life and being single. It feels so annoying that it pushes me to want to PMO just to get rid of it.

Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: dusty on August 07, 2019, 06:01:58 AM
Day 17

The craving for dopamine drives me crazy. I feel irritated and I get angry easily. After staying away from my "sex life (PMO)" for 17 days, I am dealing with this frustration for having no sex life and being single. It feels so annoying that it pushes me to want to PMO just to get rid of it.

I know it from the other perspective Lero. I have a sex life and a great GF but I was annoyed that I lost opportunity for having sex with other girls and it pushed me to to want to PMO. Haha, really. So if you're addicted every reason is good. I suppose that if you have sex every day with another girl and PMO also, it'll be also so difficult to stay away from P. We love that dopamine rush sooooo much. But now I see that my sex life is becoming more satisfying.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 07, 2019, 08:11:11 AM
I know it from the other perspective Lero. I have a sex life and a great GF but I was annoyed that I lost opportunity for having sex with other girls and it pushed me to to want to PMO. Haha, really. So if you're addicted every reason is good. I suppose that if you have sex every day with another girl and PMO also, it'll be also so difficult to stay away from P. We love that dopamine rush sooooo much. But now I see that my sex life is becoming more satisfying.

Ye, man, I guess porn is stronger than all that.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 07, 2019, 08:12:19 AM
Recognize when you want to search for porn material and stop yourself. Don't switch to autopilot.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 07, 2019, 08:18:35 AM
We have to understand that we are not addicted to porn, we are addicted to the dopamine hit that it produces. Porn is just the button we have trained ourselves to push in order to get this big dopamine release, and we like it so much because it's so intense. Here is something interesting I noticed today: I switched the focus from "craving for porn" to "craving for dopamine." Instead of visualizing porn in my mind, I visualized the dopamine like a color or something. And for some reason, it helped me lower the craving. Maybe I could visualize a button.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Arthur2 on August 07, 2019, 01:11:49 PM
Some say that social media is also a dopamine provider because of the novelty that it provides all the time.

I wonder if us who are writting journals here and exploring our body and sensations and sexuality aren' t in fact replacing a wrong source of dopamine by a right and healthy one which is also more intellectually fulfilling and stimulating.

Because writting daily and checking on the comments and "likes" gives dopamine. But on this forum this dopamine release is encouraging us to have a healthy and beneficial habit.

I think it would be even better if we had like gatherings like AA, or we could call it NFA.


Good luck resisting, Lero. Remember : you are not alone.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 07, 2019, 01:24:33 PM
Some say that social media is also a dopamine provider because of the novelty that it provides all the time.


It is. It has been discovered that novelty keeps dopamine high, so those platforms are created with this in mind. Porn websites have similar format like Youtube, for example. That's why we are so addicted to porn, because of the novelty.

Quote
I think it would be even better if we had like gatherings like AA, or we could call it NFA.

That would be interesting.

Thanks for the support.

Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 07, 2019, 04:23:27 PM
No edging to fantasies, no peeking, no edging to P substitutes, no edging to P, no watching P, no PMO, nothing. Urges don't go anywhere if they are not fed. And urges don't kill.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: rob24 on August 07, 2019, 05:42:04 PM
No edging to fantasies, no peeking, no edging to P substitutes, no edging to P, no watching P, no PMO, nothing. Urges don't go anywhere if they are not fed. And urges don't kill.

All good calls Lero. This has been a game changer, and something I think we could keep emphasizing more as a community. It helped me a lot after years without going more than a week. I've gone through tons of phases and often failed at these:

-The initial urges period
-The falling in love and fantasizing period
-The own body/self as porn body change phase
-The flatline of boredom

Who knows if there are other phases? But working to control your own thoughts isn't something I did since I was a kid, when I thought having sexual thoughts was somehow sinful because of my upbringing. I went against it, rejecting my upbringing because I felt it limited me on grounds that I should feel deprived or be suffering more, but now I realize it has more psychological consequences, and I am the agent in charge of my thoughts.

So much comes down to this stuff, like getting a song stuck in your head. I swear, it feels like giving up music playlists has helped me avoid novelty addiction altogether. This was a huge leap man!

Some say that social media is also a dopamine provider because of the novelty that it provides all the time.

I wonder if us who are writting journals here and exploring our body and sensations and sexuality aren' t in fact replacing a wrong source of dopamine by a right and healthy one which is also more intellectually fulfilling and stimulating.

Because writting daily and checking on the comments and "likes" gives dopamine. But on this forum this dopamine release is encouraging us to have a healthy and beneficial habit.

I think it would be even better if we had like gatherings like AA, or we could call it NFA.

Interesting ideas, Arthur! It's useful to pinpoint more of these areas. I'll try to help and keep a lookout for other ones!
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: BlueHeronFan on August 07, 2019, 06:37:33 PM
It's this torturous craving/desire for dopamine. I don't know if it's included in the "urges" category. I'm not talking about "that arousal" that you feel when you say you are dealing with "urges", I'm talking about this craving for the dopamine hit that drives me crazy. It's like they put you in a cell, starve you for 3 days then put a barbecue plate in front of you and you can't reach it. I feel like I walk up the walls with this craving for dopamine.

Yes, exactly this! It's that relentless urge to push that dopamine button. But just keep on going. Even one more day is a big step forward.

We have to understand that we are not addicted to porn, we are addicted to the dopamine hit that it produces. Porn is just the button we have trained ourselves to push in order to get this big dopamine release, and we like it so much because it's so intense. Here is something interesting I noticed today: I switched the focus from "craving for porn" to "craving for dopamine." Instead of visualizing porn in my mind, I visualized the dopamine like a color or something. And for some reason, it helped me lower the craving. Maybe I could visualize a button.

And I think this is exactly right. Switching my focus from just PMO to instead be aware of addictive dopamine release helped me to recognize a lot more of my triggers and take care of them. If we only think about PMO, we're blind to all the other ways we're fueling the dopamine frenzy in our brains that eventually leads to PMO.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 08, 2019, 04:59:37 AM
All good calls Lero. This has been a game changer, and something I think we could keep emphasizing more as a community. It helped me a lot after years without going more than a week. I've gone through tons of phases and often failed at these:

-The initial urges period
-The falling in love and fantasizing period
-The own body/self as porn body change phase
-The flatline of boredom

Who knows if there are other phases? But working to control your own thoughts isn't something I did since I was a kid, when I thought having sexual thoughts was somehow sinful because of my upbringing. I went against it, rejecting my upbringing because I felt it limited me on grounds that I should feel deprived or be suffering more, but now I realize it has more psychological consequences, and I am the agent in charge of my thoughts.

So much comes down to this stuff, like getting a song stuck in your head. I swear, it feels like giving up music playlists has helped me avoid novelty addiction altogether. This was a huge leap man!

Controlling your porn thoughts isn't easy. This is the hardest part in my reboot. When everything else was excluded, this was what made me relapse. I would drown into porn flashbacks and porn induced fantasies (me in a porn scene with an actress or a crush), start edging to them then move to edging to substitutes and then porn. I would edge for hours, frying myself up like a chicken in the pan, until I exhausted all my arousal and I felt empty, unable to turn myself on anymore. This is when I orgasmed, a weak orgasm that didn't make me feel anything, thinking that it would actually make me feel more. It didn't but I kept repeated the same thing over and over again, thinking: "This time it will be different and the orgasm will feel good." Did I tell you the definition of insanity?

So you see? it was like the first step made me slip and go rolling all the way to the bottom. And I always binged after a relapse because I had that mentality like: "I relapsed, what difference does it make?" Which is a wrong mentality because more means more damage. It's like you hit your finger with the hammer. Would you hit it 4 more times? But you see, it's easy to abuse our brain because it doesn't hurt like a finger. We have to take care of ourselves which means taking care of all our organs, including the brain. Porn is how we abuse it. It's a matter of choice: Do I really want to quit P? If the answer is yes, then let's do it, for real. The quicker we get rid of porn, the quicker we get our brain a well deserved rest (that it hasn't had in years).

You know, if I thought about all the reasons why I PMOed or edged, it would probably be:

1) The pleasure of the dopamine release;
2) Substitute for lack of sex;
3) Soothing when I delt with things like stress, anxiety, depression, rejection;
4) Boredom (and this one I don't really understand how it works. Maybe porn was a way to have fun when I was bored?)

What else? I'll think about it more.

Anyway, novelty is a hard drug. Gabe Deem says in the New Zealand interview (which is on the main page), that novelty is like cocaine. Cocaine blocks the dopamine and keeps it hitting the receptors over and over, and novelty does the same thing. You get a dopamine hit with every click or scroll. I've heard in a TED talk how that year so many porn videos were uploaded on a porn website that, if you watched all of them, you didn't have to watch the same video twice for the next 150 years. You are already dead by then so you could actually never watch the same video twice for the rest of your life  :-\ Being disgusted with all this phenomenon is a great place to start. They are doing this on purpose. They know what effect it has on our brains. The reason why porn websites have the same format as Youtube proves the theory. Fuck porn! Get rid of poison and choose health.

 



Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Pete McVries on August 08, 2019, 07:10:27 AM
Anyway, novelty is a hard drug. Gabe Deem says in the New Zealand interview (which is on the main page), that novelty is like cocaine. Cocaine blocks the dopamine and keeps it hitting the receptors over and over, and novelty does the same thing. You get a dopamine hit with every click or scroll. I've heard in a TED talk how that year so many porn videos were uploaded on a porn website that, if you watched all of them, you didn't have to watch the same video twice for the next 150 years. You are already dead by then so you could actually never watch the same video twice for the rest of your life  :-\ Being disgusted with all this phenomenon is a great place to start. They are doing this on purpose. They know what effect it has on our brains. The reason why porn websites have the same format as Youtube proves the theory. Fuck porn! Get rid of poison and choose health.

That's why social media is so addicting. Endless timelines, endless scrolling and likes that prove your social worth. It's really perfidious how they are able to make people addicted to their product and in consequence influence their users' behaviour. For example, if you post a new profile photo on facebook, naturally because you are human and social approval is important to you, you care about the reactions and even hope there will be positive reactions at all. What facebook does is they show your updated profile picture in the timeline of your friends with a delay. So that your "friends" like and comment on it over a longer period of time. The result is that you have to come back again and again to see the new reactions. Twitter also does something to that effect. If you log in, your notifications won't show up right away. But they slowly go up to the correct number. A neuroscientist once talked about it in a video (I can't find at the moment) and he compared this mechanic to a slot machine. You log in (pull the trigger) and hope for many notification (three 7s in a row). By using social media, you are destined to become addicted to these mechanics.

I don't use any social media anymore but I have a smartphone (an old one). And it has this little blinking light on the top left corner of the display. Everytime I get a new message, this little light blinks every 4-5 seconds or so. It's helpful because my smartphone is on mute all the time, but what it also does, I get an extreme urge to check it right away and I HAVE to act on it because I get restless seeing it. Yesterday, it annoyed me so much because I was doing something else and I didn't want to check the message right away that I had to turn my smartphone upside down so that I couldn't see the light anymore. And that did the trickt. But isn't this insane?

If you quit most of these "hollow" dopamine sources your abilitiy to concentrate for longer periods of time and to being patient will increase a lot. At the height of my porn addiction I couldn't even enjoy watching movies anymore because they were not stimulating enough. Don't even talk about reading a book. That's why social media, youtube, news sites and porn are far more worth the time for your brain.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 08, 2019, 07:19:29 AM
That's why social media is so addicting. Endless timelines, endless scrolling and likes that prove your social worth. It's really perfidious how they are able to make people addicted to their product and in consequence influence their users' behaviour. For example, if you post a new profile photo on facebook, naturally because you are human and social approval is important to you, you care about the reactions and even hope there will be positive reactions at all. What facebook does is they show your updated profile picture in the timeline of your friends with a delay. So that your "friends" like and comment on it over a longer period of time. The result is that you have to come back again and again to see the new reactions. Twitter also does something to that effect. If you log in, your notifications won't show up right away. But they slowly go up to the correct number. A neuroscientist once talked about it in a video (I can't find at the moment) and he compared this mechanic to a slot machine. You log in (pull the trigger) and hope for many notification (three 7s in a row). By using social media, you are destined to become addicted to these mechanics.

I don't use any social media anymore but I have a smartphone (an old one). And it has this little blinking light on the top left corner of the display. Everytime I get a new message, this little light blinks every 4-5 seconds or so. It's helpful because my smartphone is on mute all the time, but what it also does, I get an extreme urge to check it right away and I HAVE to act on it because I get restless seeing it. Yesterday, it annoyed me so much because I was doing something else and I didn't want to check the message right away that I had to turn my smartphone upside down so that I couldn't see the light anymore. And that did the trickt. But isn't this insane?

If you quit most of these "hollow" dopamine sources your abilitiy to concentrate for longer periods of time and to being patient will increase a lot. At the height of my porn addiction I couldn't even enjoy watching movies anymore because they were not stimulating enough. Don't even talk about reading a book. That's why social media, youtube, news sites and porn are far more worth the time for your brain.

Fucking correct, man! But, in my case, it was simple. Life made me stay away from social media  :D I was anonymous there. I didn't get any likes, any comments, absolutely nothing. I uploaded pictures but nobody gave a fuck. Then I stopped using social media. I was mad, depressed, sad you name it, for quitting social media. Then I congratulated myself for doing this. Not being active on social media has been one of the best things I could've done in my life.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 08, 2019, 07:39:45 AM
Day 18

3 weeks are just around the corner. Only 3 days left.

Today urges have been low. I welcome this because I know how brutal the urges could get and I hate this. The craving for dopamine has been low as well, which is strange but also welcome.

The question is this: Do you want to quit porn? At the end of the day, the thing that gives you the last push is the determination to quit. Urges are brutal, the desire for dopamine is torture, your problems have no soothing tool now, you can't have fun with this when you are bored etc. It feels like your decision to quit porn was the stupidest fucking thing. Don't worry about it. Bitch about it. Get things of your chest. But if the determination and decision are there to quit porn, don't do anything. Don't peek, don't edge to fantasies, nothing. Starve the addicted brain completely and one day you will think about it and say: "Now I'm fine. It was a great decision. Now I'm over with this. If I had acted, I wouldn't have been here." That's right. Right now, when the autopilot activates itself, when the craving for dopamine forms the tunnel vision, that day, when everything is over, seems impossible, but it will come. And then you will feel about all this process just like this: "It used to be brutal but now I'm done with it."
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Arthur2 on August 08, 2019, 12:33:27 PM


Quote
No edging to fantasies, no peeking, no edging to P substitutes, no edging to P, no watching P, no PMO, nothing. Urges don't go anywhere if they are not fed. And urges don't kill. [quote/]

True.

Very good things to read in this thread.

Shouldn' t we tackle other areas of our lives in which we have dopamine addiction in order to help us battle the P addiction ?

Food addiction is an other one.






Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 08, 2019, 01:04:38 PM
True.

Very good things to read in this thread.

Shouldn' t we tackle other areas of our lives in which we have dopamine addiction in order to help us battle the P addiction ?

Food addiction is an other one.

That's interesting. I'll think about it. I guess that now, while being addicted to porn, I am super extra careful not to get addicted to anything else. I'm tired of addictions while battling this one. It's exhausting.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: BlueHeronFan on August 08, 2019, 06:43:10 PM
Congrats on the continuing progress! You're on a solid path now, and the trick is just to stick with it (which you sound more than committed to doing)!

I don't use any social media anymore but I have a smartphone (an old one). And it has this little blinking light on the top left corner of the display. Everytime I get a new message, this little light blinks every 4-5 seconds or so. It's helpful because my smartphone is on mute all the time, but what it also does, I get an extreme urge to check it right away and I HAVE to act on it because I get restless seeing it. Yesterday, it annoyed me so much because I was doing something else and I didn't want to check the message right away that I had to turn my smartphone upside down so that I couldn't see the light anymore. And that did the trickt. But isn't this insane?

It is crazy how this all works. Just a little hack that has worked for me: I have a reminder set on my phone every morning that reminds me to make it through the day clean, and I only check it off the next morning (when I have made it successfully through the day). Those little notification signals really do get us feeling sort of restless, but this one helps to keep me a little restlessly aware of my commitment to recovery. All day long it's there like an un-answered message driving me a little crazy but in a way that helps to remind me throughout the day what my priorities are.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 09, 2019, 04:59:25 AM
Day 19

My whole body is desperate to feel that awesome arousal given by edging to P. I feel hungry for dopamine, like I've been forcefully starved (which is true because I've been starving the addicted brain). This is how I've been feeling since around day 7. It's been 12 days of craving torture. The recovery process is scary. I have no idea after how many days I will not be so hungry for P anymore. Quitting P cold turkey made me super irritated and angry. I snap in a second.

I'm writting this earlier for guilty conscience. I can't relapse after writting this.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: achilles heel on August 09, 2019, 12:02:13 PM
This weekend might be decisive for you, three weeks for me always were the hardest part, after that it got easier. Stay strong, you are on the right way and the end of suffering is near!
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 09, 2019, 12:09:27 PM
This weekend might be decisive for you, three weeks for me always were the hardest part, after that it got easier. Stay strong, you are on the right way and the end of suffering is near!

I hope so.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 09, 2019, 12:34:50 PM
Remember, you can't go back to day 1. Why? Because on day 1, you were desperate to be where you are today.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: rob24 on August 09, 2019, 02:51:12 PM
Good on you Lero. I feel like my reboot has been decelerated by some edging, fantasies, and subs, but it's starting to improve again. Things hit in waves. Your clean reboot is probably working faster! I've been thinking it might be a useful visualizing exercise to imagine that you just relapsed on this very day, and consider the way you feel. It might help make the changes feel more evident.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 09, 2019, 03:08:42 PM
Good on you Lero. I feel like my reboot has been decelerated by some edging, fantasies, and subs, but it's starting to improve again. Things hit in waves. Your clean reboot is probably working faster! I've been thinking it might be a useful visualizing exercise to imagine that you just relapsed on this very day, and consider the way you feel. It might help make the changes feel more evident.

You know, this is probably the last phase you need to sort out and then you are good to go (your edging to fantasies and subs). But don't get sad about it. One day everything should "click". I mean, I've been here for almost 3 months (without 12 days) and I couldn't even make it to 1 week without doing something. After I got rid of everything, the streak just took of and it took me by surprise. I believe everything eventually will start working for you and you are not far away from it. You've come a long way already.

Yes, that's something I like to do. I visualize a relapse, I feel it, I place myself in that moment, like a method actor. And it feels so bad that I get out of it and say: "No fucking way! I am not going back there!" You see, we forget how we feel after a relapse. The pleasure of porn blinds us and we don't even care. We always need to remind ourselves that this very pleasure takes us back to that relapse.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Jay2019 on August 09, 2019, 04:21:13 PM
Day 19 - good work, Lero.  I'm on day 20 - it feels good.  It's what you have to look forward to tomorrow!  Another day without porn, another day at the wheel, another day carving out your own life.   Keep going, man, this is worth it.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Jay2019 on August 09, 2019, 04:25:54 PM
Good on you Lero. I feel like my reboot has been decelerated by some edging, fantasies, and subs, but it's starting to improve again. Things hit in waves. Your clean reboot is probably working faster! I've been thinking it might be a useful visualizing exercise to imagine that you just relapsed on this very day, and consider the way you feel. It might help make the changes feel more evident.

You know, this is probably the last phase you need to sort out and then you are good to go (your edging to fantasies and subs). But don't get sad about it. One day everything should "click". I mean, I've been here for almost 3 months (without 12 days) and I couldn't even make it to 1 week without doing something. After I got rid of everything, the streak just took of and it took me by surprise. I believe everything eventually will start working for you and you are not far away from it. You've come a long way already.

Yes, that's something I like to do. I visualize a relapse, I feel it, I place myself in that moment, like a method actor. And it feels so bad that I get out of it and say: "No fucking way! I am not going back there!" You see, we forget how we feel after a relapse. The pleasure of porn blinds us and we don't even care. We always need to remind ourselves that this very pleasure takes us back to that relapse.

That's right.  Play the video in your mind all the way through, not up to the point where you're feeling that dopamine surge...play it up to the point where you feel trapped, regretful, angry...play it up to the point where you've detached from everything that matters to you.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Arthur2 on August 09, 2019, 04:44:43 PM
Just passing by i wanted to say hello, and stay strong.

Quote
Quitting P cold turkey made me super irritated and angry. I snap in a second.

What about starting boxing to channel that extra energy and anger that you now have ?

Congratulations on day 19. I myself am looking forward to be there.

Quote
Remember, you can't go back to day 1. Why? Because on day 1, you were desperate to be where you are today.

Very true. It is a great thought to keep in mind. So many times i have experienced that in my own journey !!!
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 09, 2019, 04:51:58 PM
Thanks for the support, Arthur. It's not easy to get to day 19 but it's not impossible.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 09, 2019, 05:25:53 PM
Day 19 - good work, Lero.  I'm on day 20 - it feels good.  It's what you have to look forward to tomorrow!  Another day without porn, another day at the wheel, another day carving out your own life.   Keep going, man, this is worth it.

Thanks, man. We have almost the same number of days.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: BlueHeronFan on August 09, 2019, 06:08:17 PM
Keep it up!

I've said it before, but we can all benefit from hearing it again. These feelings will pass. I remember always giving into these urges because it felt like that was the only way to get rid of them. That's not true. They will eventually go away on their own if you continue to ignore them.

You know, this is probably the last phase you need to sort out and then you are good to go (your edging to fantasies and subs). But don't get sad about it. One day everything should "click".

I kind of want to quote this right back to you! Make it through this long, strong wave of urges, learn that you can survive without acting on them, and go forward with the confidence that you do have it in you to deal with urges when they arise. It was a huge step for me to quit all the edging and P subs, but it did finally click. It was another huge step to learn that I can live through hard urges without giving in. In a lot of ways, that might be one of the last phases you need to sort out. Getting over that hump once has made a huge difference for me in the months since.

Keep it going! One more day!
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: squid on August 10, 2019, 12:10:27 AM
Keep it up Lero.  I love how active you are on here, you can do it man.  We are all in this and we're going to make it.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 10, 2019, 04:56:04 AM
I kind of want to quote this right back to you! Make it through this long, strong wave of urges, learn that you can survive without acting on them, and go forward with the confidence that you do have it in you to deal with urges when they arise. It was a huge step for me to quit all the edging and P subs, but it did finally click. It was another huge step to learn that I can live through hard urges without giving in. In a lot of ways, that might be one of the last phases you need to sort out. Getting over that hump once has made a huge difference for me in the months since.

Keep it going! One more day!

Thanks, man. Yes, I guess my last phase is dealing with those urges and craving for dopamine. After this I should be alright.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 10, 2019, 06:37:45 AM
Keep it up Lero.  I love how active you are on here, you can do it man.  We are all in this and we're going to make it.

Thanks, man.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 10, 2019, 09:35:59 AM
Day 20

I'm bullied by a very violent and desperate craving for dopamine. Trying to ignore the P flashbacks is exhausting in itself. I'm still very irritated. I snap easily and have no patience for anything. Everything annoys me. Everyone pisses me off. Words remind me of words said in dialog of porn scenes or names of porn movies. Names remind me of sluts that I've seen in porn. I look everywhere and I see "PORN" written in big letters. Everything is porn. I can't breathe. It's like a voice whispers in my ear, over and over again: "Porn, porn, porn, porn". Quitting porn is not hard, it's brutal.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: mranoym31 on August 10, 2019, 10:08:06 AM
Keep it up Lero. Write that emotion of you. It helps yourself and others!
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Do or die on August 10, 2019, 11:57:17 AM
Congratulations for your 21 days success
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 10, 2019, 01:27:43 PM
Keep it up Lero. Write that emotion of you. It helps yourself and others!

Sure, man. Thanks.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 10, 2019, 01:28:03 PM
Congratulations for your 21 days success

Thanks.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: pichaelthompson on August 10, 2019, 01:36:43 PM
I hate that even when I am thinking of NOT PMOing the thought is still distracting me from the goals I want to accomplish outside of this. Sometimes it is important to train the brain to focus on important things that have nothing to do with PMO, or nothing to do with resisting PMO, if that makes any sense. You are doing really great, keep going cause your progress is truly an inspiration!
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 10, 2019, 01:38:24 PM
I hate that even when I am thinking of NOT PMOing the thought is still distracting me from the goals I want to accomplish outside of this. Sometimes it is important to train the brain to focus on important things that have nothing to do with PMO, or nothing to do with resisting PMO, if that makes any sense. You are doing really great, keep going cause your progress is truly an inspiration!

Thanks, man. You know, I kind of accepted the idea that porn will invade my mind constantly for a period of time. It's inevitable, I guess, because I'm an addict and this is the withdrawal. I know it's annoying, like I do something that has nothing to do with porn but all of a sudden I'm "looking at" a porn flashback. Porn occupies a big part of my mind daily. One day it should fucking leave me alone.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: pichaelthompson on August 10, 2019, 01:44:35 PM
I agree, to a certain extent. But I think there is also a balance to accepting it as a presence in your mind and taking steps to give it as least energy as possible. I've also accepted that P thoughts will always come inside and out of my brain, probably for the rest of my life, but I think we have the power to affect the intensity and frequency of these thoughts, outside of just distancing ourselves from PMO and fantasizing; even if they are microscopic changes that aren't always noticeable. Best of luck to you
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 10, 2019, 01:44:42 PM
I've experienced the true withdrawal this time. You don't know how it feels until you starve the addicted brain for a longer period of time. Then it reacts violently. After going through what I've been through during this streak, I don't want to go back there. You see, I want to quit porn. That's the truth. In order to quit, I have to go through the withdrawal all the way sooner or later. It won't get easier. If I relapse now, next time it won't be better. So I might as well keep going and be done with this.

When you think you've reached your limits, it's only the beginning. Being pushed past the limit, that you think you have, and still going on, is very revelatory. It tells you that you can do more than you though you could. You see that you could face hard urges and still continue the streak.

I don't want to start over again and experience this shit. I'm doing this now and end this.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 10, 2019, 01:46:22 PM
I agree, to a certain extent. But I think there is also a balance to accepting it as a presence in your mind and taking steps to give it as least energy as possible. I've also accepted that P thoughts will always come inside and out of my brain, probably for the rest of my life, but I think we have the power to affect the intensity and frequency of these thoughts, outside of just distancing ourselves from PMO and fantasizing; even if they are microscopic changes that aren't always noticeable. Best of luck to you

I see your point. I think I've been trying something similar.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 10, 2019, 02:02:17 PM
No indulging in porn flashbacks, no edging to porn flashbacks, no peeking, no edging to porn substitutes, no edging to porn, no PMO, nothing. Absolute starvation for the addiction. I followed the best path for another day. Last time when I deliberately searched for porn material was 20 days ago. This is the cleanest streak I've ever had since I've discovered porn. I've had hundreds of moments when I wanted to do something but I didn't. I kept going through the urges, through the hard craving for dopamine then I looked back and I said this to myself: "It's possible. One day you will look back and say that it was hard but now you are done with it. You will congratulate yourself for going on, for not indulging in any porn behavior. One day you will think about it and feel good that, during the hard times, you didn't feed the addiction. Now you are free."
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 10, 2019, 02:16:48 PM
Remember, there is not such thing as "impossible case". I used to think I was one. I used to think there was absolutely no way I could quit porn. Now I feel like I actually have a big chance. I've exceeded my limit. I used to relapse constantly after 4 days. After the first PMO, I binged, as many times as I had time to until I went to sleep. I reached a point where I wanted to PMO one more time but I could not get an erection. I jerked off to porn for about 15 minutes to finally have another O. I went to sleep and said to myself: "Some people can do it and some can't. And I can't. It's as simple as that. I could never beat this shit. I'm done. I will die a porn addict." It's true that it took a lot of time after that to reach 20 days. It was hard. Very hard. Some people have more success, other need more work, but all of us have the potential to be in the same place. After years of being a "4th day relapser", I exceeded my expectations. I was dumbfounded to see my streak going so smoothly. 20 days of not watching absolutely anything. I didn't search for any material. One year ago such thought would've made me laugh and say: "Get the fuck outta here. I could never go 20 days without doing anything." All of us here have the potential to beat this fucking poison. If you think you can't do it, I'm sorry to bring you the news... The good news: You can.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: BlueHeronFan on August 10, 2019, 05:19:13 PM
You can do it! The harder it gets, the more progress you're making! Your addiction is backed into a corner and fighting for its life. Don't give any ground, stick to what works, and come out of this on the other end successful!

Maybe even rub it in a little by going off and focusing on bigger and better things just to show your addiction you don't even miss it.

Sending strength and support your way!
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 11, 2019, 04:27:59 AM
You can do it! The harder it gets, the more progress you're making! Your addiction is backed into a corner and fighting for its life. Don't give any ground, stick to what works, and come out of this on the other end successful!

Maybe even rub it in a little by going off and focusing on bigger and better things just to show your addiction you don't even miss it.

Sending strength and support your way!

Nowadays I feel like my chance is better than never. The way things have been, I would only relapsed if I wanted to.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 11, 2019, 04:28:54 AM
3 weeks

The craving for the dopamine hit is strong. The strongest so far. It's deep and violent. It runs from head to toe. I feel it in my whole body.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 11, 2019, 10:46:35 AM
I am extremely irritated. I walk around angry as fuck, I snap in a second, I want to smash things. This fucking cold turkey is killing me.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: pichaelthompson on August 11, 2019, 12:52:45 PM
You can do it. Whatever happens, you can always do it, and deep down, maybe so deep it cannot always be found, you know that inherent truth. This shit is hard, for everyone. We are all fighters, and being a fighter means being able to take a punch but to keep on swinging. Wishing you peace down the road, because it will come in waves eventually.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 11, 2019, 01:02:40 PM
You can do it. Whatever happens, you can always do it, and deep down, maybe so deep it cannot always be found, you know that inherent truth. This shit is hard, for everyone. We are all fighters, and being a fighter means being able to take a punch but to keep on swinging. Wishing you peace down the road, because it will come in waves eventually.

Thanks, bro. Good luck to you too.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 11, 2019, 01:25:09 PM
I had a MO session that didn't involve any P, either watching it or thinking about it. I saw that it could be possible and I got curious at the thought of MO-ing for the first time in my life without even thinking about P. I don't seem to enter any flatline because my libido is high. I felt like a horny motherfucker  :D

I started MO-ing as a kid, before starting to watch P at 13, and I never MO-ed without thinking about something I'd seen in movies. This is the first time when I actually did it the way it's supposed to be done.

After this, I've noticed a few things:

1) Vanilla MO is...boring. It doesn't compare to the chemical hell of P.

2) The MO session made me tired. It made me consume a part of my energy and I don't like that. Abstinence from ejaculation had built up some energy bag in me and it seems that an ejaculation (especially one that involves intense arousal), depletes that. Now I understand why Mirko Crocop said: "Sex? Neccesary evil but I don't like it." Hahaha! But it's true. Some people prefer how they feel when they abstain from O (more energy, more aggression etc. I've been experiencing these too).

3) The chaser effect is a killer. It seems that it's a type of craving on its own and, despise being lower in intensity than the "usual" craving, it's more debilitating. It seems to mess up with my head a lot worse. Maybe because of the P binging, still so familiar to me. The idea of: "You did it once, now you need to do it again." It's either how my brain got trained or it's a thing on it's own. I don't know.

4) The follow up of MO feels lonely.

I don't think I like vanilla MO. I don't think I will do it again despise the fact that it lowers my extreme urges significantly. I don't think I want to use this anymore for lowering the urges because of the things I wrote above. I considered it for the days when strong urges would drive me crazy, but I don't think it will remain an option. I think I like more how I feel when I abstain from O.

Still 3 weeks without P. The idea here is to avoid P in any shape or form, including thinking about it.

Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 11, 2019, 01:37:11 PM
Tomorrow, a new week will start. Things that I want to do:

1) Don't watch any P or substitutes;
2) Don't drown in P flashbacks and fantasies;
3) Stay away from alcohol;
4) Start my plan for losing some weight (I'm a little bit overweight);
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Jay2019 on August 11, 2019, 05:08:51 PM
I had a MO session that didn't involve any P, either watching it or thinking about it. I saw that it could be possible and I got curious at the thought of MO-ing for the first time in my life without even thinking about P. I don't seem to enter any flatline because my libido is high. I felt like a horny motherfucker  :D

I started MO-ing as a kid, before starting to watch P at 13, and I never MO-ed without thinking about something I'd seen in movies. This is the first time when I actually did it the way it's supposed to be done.

After this, I've noticed a few things:

1) Vanilla MO is...boring. It doesn't compare to the chemical hell of P.

2) The MO session made me tired. It made me consume a part of my energy and I don't like that. Abstinence from ejaculation had built up some energy bag in me and it seems that an ejaculation (especially one that involves intense arousal), depletes that. Now I understand why Mirko Crocop said: "Sex? Neccesary evil but I don't like it." Hahaha! But it's true. Some people prefer how they feel when they abstain from O (more energy, more aggression etc. I've been experiencing these too).

3) The chaser effect is a killer. It seems that it's a type of craving on its own and, despise being lower in intensity than the "usual" craving, it's more debilitating. It seems to mess up with my head a lot worse. Maybe because of the P binging, still so familiar to me. The idea of: "You did it once, now you need to do it again." It's either how my brain got trained or it's a thing on it's own. I don't know.

4) The follow up of MO feels lonely.

I don't think I like vanilla MO. I don't think I will do it again despise the fact that it lowers my extreme urges significantly. I don't think I want to use this anymore for lowering the urges because of the things I wrote above. I considered it for the days when strong urges would drive me crazy, but I don't think it will remain an option. I think I like more how I feel when I abstain from O.

Still 3 weeks without P. The idea here is to avoid P in any shape or form, including thinking about it.

I'm impressed you didn't look at P after all that temptation.  You kept posting, talking about it, and trying to deal with it.  Congratulations on getting past such powerful cravings.  Keep going.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: BlueHeronFan on August 11, 2019, 08:27:10 PM
4) The follow up of MO feels lonely.

You know, I had a very similar thought a few months ago when the MO urge was strong. It just seemed really sad to me to be alone with an erection, so I gave up on the idea of MO and haven't really looked back. I just sort of saw it for what it was, something that had nothing to do with building the kind of relationship I eventually want to have.

Press forward!
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: rob24 on August 11, 2019, 10:06:13 PM
4) The follow up of MO feels lonely.

You know, I had a very similar thought a few months ago when the MO urge was strong. It just seemed really sad to me to be alone with an erection, so I gave up on the idea of MO and haven't really looked back. I just sort of saw it for what it was, something that had nothing to do with building the kind of relationship I eventually want to have.

Press forward!

I've been getting this urge a lot lately too. What strategies helped? I suppose self-awareness/visualizing long-term goals and then considering your present situation might help, but are there any other strategies that worked? I'm trying to get rid of cues that lead me to MO. Maybe a "no touching my dick at all" pledge would be the most helpful change?
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 12, 2019, 04:25:29 AM
You know, I had a very similar thought a few months ago when the MO urge was strong. It just seemed really sad to me to be alone with an erection, so I gave up on the idea of MO and haven't really looked back. I just sort of saw it for what it was, something that had nothing to do with building the kind of relationship I eventually want to have.

Yeah, this is one of the realizations for me too. It makes me feel lonely to engage in a sexual practice all alone. And the chaser effect is annoying, I had to ignore it because it made me feel like another MO would've been great (maybe even a little bit of P), so I don't like it, I will refrain from MO too. I wanted to see how it went but I'm not a fan of it.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 12, 2019, 04:30:05 AM
I've been getting this urge a lot lately too. What strategies helped? I suppose self-awareness/visualizing long-term goals and then considering your present situation might help, but are there any other strategies that worked? I'm trying to get rid of cues that lead me to MO. Maybe a "no touching my dick at all" pledge would be the most helpful change?

Yesterday I had hard urges and I became fascinating with the idea of having a hard on without watching or thinking about P, as I never do this. After that, I started a MO session that didn't involve any P. Afterward, I thought about it and I'm not a fan of it. The chaser effect is a killer, it's a big push toward binge MO or even looking at P. So it's a little bit of playing with fire too, I guess. I want to go full hard mode, excluding O too (because there is no potential sex on the horizon for a long time).
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 12, 2019, 04:31:41 AM
I'm impressed you didn't look at P after all that temptation.  You kept posting, talking about it, and trying to deal with it.  Congratulations on getting past such powerful cravings.  Keep going.

Thanks, man. I surprise myself everyday too. It's been 3 weeks of surprise.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 12, 2019, 04:33:54 AM
Day 22

I haven't had any urges today.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: pichaelthompson on August 12, 2019, 02:22:41 PM
Incredible. You have been through so much shit recently, your brain has changed for the better. Know that there is always this light within you, even in the darkest of times
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 12, 2019, 02:27:12 PM
Incredible. You have been through so much shit recently, your brain has changed for the better. Know that there is always this light within you, even in the darkest of times

That MO session (without P) from yesterday seems to have emptied me. Yesterday the urges were killing me and today I feel completely asexual. Still 22 days without any P and I'm not going back.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: pichaelthompson on August 12, 2019, 02:30:30 PM
The most important thing is that you have learned from it and are moving on. I wish back when I was experimenting with just MO I could've known better, as eventually I turned back to P. I'm very impressed with your ability to see the desire of P trying to sneak in and shutting it out, even after MO.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 12, 2019, 02:32:13 PM
The most important thing is that you have learned from it and are moving on. I wish back when I was experimenting with just MO I could've known better, as eventually I turned back to P. I'm very impressed with your ability to see the desire of P trying to sneak in and shutting it out, even after MO.

To tell you the truh, I'm impressed myself. I don't know where it came from but all of a sudden it just started working. But maybe there was nothing "magical" about it, maybe it was just the process coming to the end, adding the last piece that I needed.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 12, 2019, 02:47:55 PM
A relapse starts earlier in your mind. "Waking up" in the middle of an edging session to "something light" or straight out porn is a consequence of following the craving and searching for porn material. You have to see it coming right from the beginning and say "No" to everything that feeds the addiction. When you have strong urges, it's easy to fall into the trap. "The urges are killing me!" you think and then you look for some porn material to "lower the urges a little bit because something light for 5 minutes won't kill me". This is the wrong step that makes you go rolling all the way down to the bottom. How do you deal with urges? Definitely not by watching porn or looking at porn substitutes. Urges are like a fire that will stay in one place if gas is not thrown on it. It will eventually extinguish itself. This is what I've been doing and it will fail me only if I wanted to, only if I let it. It has no tricks up in its sleeve anymore for me. I know every little thing that the addiction does. I would look at porn material only if I made the decision to. The autopilot doesn't exist anymore. The "trance" is also past. You have complete control on yourself, not your addiction. Urges start but you have the last word whether to feed them or not. Peace. Stay strong. The recovery process doesn't have to be complicated, it's actually the basics that do everything. 
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Pete McVries on August 12, 2019, 05:46:12 PM
Just some food for thought: Why is there no potential sex on the horizon for a long time and what is a long time for you?

Also, congrats on 22 porn free days!
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 13, 2019, 05:05:19 AM
Just some food for thought: Why is there no potential sex on the horizon for a long time and what is a long time for you?

Also, congrats on 22 porn free days!

Thanks, man.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 13, 2019, 05:32:52 AM
Day 23

I have no urges.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Theyoungfool on August 13, 2019, 09:46:01 AM
You can quit through willpower, I have never relapse since I quit and it's been 200+ days. It's all about your mindset and goals. Visualise MO as being hard and horny alone and ask yourself if that's your end goal. P stopped being fascinating when I visualised it as me MO to two people having sex and it felt creepy as hell.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 13, 2019, 12:05:35 PM
Visualise MO as being hard and horny alone and ask yourself if that's your end goal. P stopped being fascinating when I visualised it as me MO to two people having sex and it felt creepy as hell.

I agree with this.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Arthur2 on August 13, 2019, 01:19:18 PM


Quote
A relapse starts earlier in your mind. "Waking up" in the middle of an edging session to "something light" or straight out porn is a consequence of following the craving and searching for porn material. You have to see it coming right from the beginning and say "No" to everything that feeds the addiction. When you have strong urges, it's easy to fall into the trap. "The urges are killing me!" you think and then you look for some porn material to "lower the urges a little bit because something light for 5 minutes won't kill me". This is the wrong step that makes you go rolling all the way down to the bottom. How do you deal with urges? Definitely not by watching porn or looking at porn substitutes. Urges are like a fire that will stay in one place if gas is not thrown on it. It will eventually extinguish itself. This is what I've been doing and it will fail me only if I wanted to, only if I let it. It has no tricks up in its sleeve anymore for me. I know every little thing that the addiction does. I would look at porn material only if I made the decision to. The autopilot doesn't exist anymore. The "trance" is also past. You have complete control on yourself, not your addiction. Urges start but you have the last word whether to feed them or not. Peace. Stay strong. The recovery process doesn't have to be complicated, it's actually the basics that do everything. 

Exactly wat happened to me today ! And has happened to me many times in the past to make me relapse.

I havn't orgasm but i have edged like crazy today at day 11.

I need to let this fire extinguish of itself.




Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: achilles heel on August 13, 2019, 01:45:53 PM
The chaser effect is a killer, it's a big push toward binge MO or even looking at P.

That's what I meant when I said that complete hard mode is easier. I didn't believe this for years, but actually when making it through incredible cravings without doing anything, the next days are easier - cravings come and go anyway. It's great that you did withstand any urges to watch porn, just keep it that way now and you will make it even further! It's really awesome to watch your progress!
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 13, 2019, 01:55:55 PM
That's what I meant when I said that complete hard mode is easier. I didn't believe this for years, but actually when making it through incredible cravings without doing anything, the next days are easier - cravings come and go anyway. It's great that you did withstand any urges to watch porn, just keep it that way now and you will make it even further! It's really awesome to watch your progress!

Huge thanks, bro. I appreciate your support.

Yes, I wanted to see if I could masturbate without porn for the first time in my life, because I had never done this, really. I saw that it was possible after I got a hard on without even thinking about porn. I wanted to see if I could use it for days when really brutal urges tortured me, but I didn't like it for the chaser effect so I decided to eliminate it. I had everything under control. No porn. I haven't watched porn deliberately (and any substitute) for 23 days. Now I'm sure hard mode is the way to go for me.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 13, 2019, 02:13:20 PM
Exactly wat happened to me today ! And has happened to me many times in the past to make me relapse.

I havn't orgasm but i have edged like crazy today at day 11.

I need to let this fire extinguish of itself.

Edging is a relapse in my book. If you start watching porn and edge, you relapse. You wouldn't edge without porn anyway. I can't see myself jerking my dick for hours without porn.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Pete McVries on August 13, 2019, 06:04:11 PM
Now I'm sure hard mode is the way to go for me.

That makes me happy.

You didn't answer my questions earlier but what I wanted to point out is that you don't know what the future holds in store for you. When I was close to hundred days clean my libido was so strong that it made me contact women and a few weeks later I started having regular sex.

I can say for sure that if I had been masturbating during thaz time, I wouldn't have messaged N. and never would have had sex with her. Let your (natural) libido fuel your fire. For me, it worked perfectly.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 14, 2019, 04:00:25 AM
That makes me happy.

You didn't answer my questions earlier but what I wanted to point out is that you don't know what the future holds in store for you. When I was close to hundred days clean my libido was so strong that it made me contact women and a few weeks later I started having regular sex.

I can say for sure that if I had been masturbating during thaz time, I wouldn't have messaged N. and never would have had sex with her. Let your (natural) libido fuel your fire. For me, it worked perfectly.

That's right, my man.
Title: Re: Young and mediocre because of P. Trying to live for the first time in my life.
Post by: Thank you for all that you do for me on August 14, 2019, 04:33:04 AM
Lero You are one of the strongest people i know. Keep being you  :)
Title: Re: Young and mediocre because of P. Trying to live for the first time in my life.
Post by: Lero on August 14, 2019, 05:01:53 AM
Lero You are one of the strongest people i know. Keep being you  :)

Many thanks, man! I appreciate it.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 14, 2019, 09:04:40 AM
Day 24

I had sleeping problems but I was not tired throughout the day. I had some sporadic minor urges that didn't bother me. P flashbacks tried again to remind me what I was missing. I aim for one month, which is next Wednesday and coincides with three months on this forum.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: hope2reboot on August 14, 2019, 09:28:28 PM
A relapse starts earlier in your mind. "Waking up" in the middle of an edging session to "something light" or straight out porn is a consequence of following the craving and searching for porn material. You have to see it coming right from the beginning and say "No" to everything that feeds the addiction. When you have strong urges, it's easy to fall into the trap. "The urges are killing me!" you think and then you look for some porn material to "lower the urges a little bit because something light for 5 minutes won't kill me". This is the wrong step that makes you go rolling all the way down to the bottom. How do you deal with urges? Definitely not by watching porn or looking at porn substitutes. Urges are like a fire that will stay in one place if gas is not thrown on it. It will eventually extinguish itself. This is what I've been doing and it will fail me only if I wanted to, only if I let it. It has no tricks up in its sleeve anymore for me. I know every little thing that the addiction does. I would look at porn material only if I made the decision to. The autopilot doesn't exist anymore. The "trance" is also past. You have complete control on yourself, not your addiction. Urges start but you have the last word whether to feed them or not. Peace. Stay strong. The recovery process doesn't have to be complicated, it's actually the basics that do everything.


Totally agree! Need to let the fire burn out and it will eventually. If you feed it just a little bit it pretty much becomes a fire impossible to control and then you’re back to the beginning or usually back to indulgence for a while again until you get so sick of yourself that you finally decide to try again. Never had any other addiction but I imagine it’s the same for other addictions, alcohol comes to mind.
Title: Re: The solution is complete starvation for the addicted pathway
Post by: Lero on August 15, 2019, 02:26:27 AM
Totally agree! Need to let the fire burn out and it will eventually. If you feed it just a little bit it pretty much becomes a fire impossible to control and then you’re back to the beginning or usually back to indulgence for a while again until you get so sick of yourself that you finally decide to try again. Never had any other addiction but I imagine it’s the same for other addictions, alcohol comes to mind.

What happens to me is that, when I edge it destabilizes me. It gives me some kind of craving and I have this deep inside thought about when I will edge next. Even if I don't want to edge again, it's like the feeling bothers me until I eventually repeat it, maybe not in the same day. I always relapsed a few days later or even the same day when I started edging. The solution is not to start in the first place.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 15, 2019, 02:38:49 AM
Day 25

It's holiday.

I had a P dream but I didn't think about it for about an hour after waking up then all of a sudden I had this thought: "Hey, do you know that you had a P dream?" Fragments of that dream came to my mind but I said: "Okay, I got it but I don't care."

I could sleep well this time. I woke up and felt energized like I had consumed caffeine.

Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: BlueHeronFan on August 15, 2019, 05:07:15 PM
"Okay, I got it but I don't care."

That's a great line. I've been telling myself something similar for a while now. Thoughts, dreams, and urges will continue to come from time to time, but now you're developing the power to let yourself know that they don't matter and can be safely ignored.

Keep it up!
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: achilles heel on August 15, 2019, 05:15:44 PM
I'm really glad to see how your mindset changed and shows results, 25 days is amazing and you should be through the worst cravings yet. There is hard work ahead, but you seem to be really determined to leave porn behind and I believe in your success!
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 15, 2019, 06:04:18 PM
That's a great line. I've been telling myself something similar for a while now. Thoughts, dreams, and urges will continue to come from time to time, but now you're developing the power to let yourself know that they don't matter and can be safely ignored.

Keep it up!

The hard craving for dopamine is not gone yet but I handle it. I've been turning down "offers" from my addiction for edging sessions for pleasure and soothing session for hard times. I need to get rid of this fucking addiction. It's like I walk around with a 300 pounds on my shoulders and I can barely move.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 15, 2019, 06:06:56 PM
I'm really glad to see how your mindset changed and shows results, 25 days is amazing and you should be through the worst cravings yet. There is hard work ahead, but you seem to be really determined to leave porn behind and I believe in your success!

It was one last thing that seemed to bring better results than ever. I've made it to 25 days, I looked back and said: "The craving for dopamine is huge. If this was 5 days, I would probably relapse but I don't want to lose this streak. I don't want to start from day 1 and waaaaait until day 25. I will definitely hate to do it again. Plus, I don't want to go through those urges again, between day 7 and day 21." Let's see how it works. I hope I won't fail.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: rob24 on August 15, 2019, 06:49:10 PM
I'm really glad to see how your mindset changed and shows results, 25 days is amazing and you should be through the worst cravings yet. There is hard work ahead, but you seem to be really determined to leave porn behind and I believe in your success!

It was one last thing that seemed to bring better results than ever. I've made it to 25 days, I looked back and said: "The craving for dopamine is huge. If this had been 5 days, I would probably relapse but I don't want to lose this streak. I don't want to start from day 1 and waaaaait until day 25. I will definitely hate to do it again. Plus, I don't want to go through those urges again, between day 7 and day 21." Let's see how it works. I hope I won't fail.

That's a good idea - using the benefits to help serve as a little mental buffer you need to go through. You saying this gave me an idea: wouldn't it be great to write down on a whiteboard or somewhere visible for yourself all the benefits you've experienced cumulatively, so that in order to relapse, you would need to hurdle over the idea of all the good that you've done, which takes a lot more mental effort? I only say because so many relapses are almost like this: you are yourself, Dr. Jekyll, 99% of the time, but then there's 1% of the time when Mr. Hyde comes out, and it's almost like you're preparing for an entirely different personality, contrary to all your beliefs, to hijack yours. We are preparing ourselves for that 1% of the time. How can we do it better? I think it might benefit us as a community to think of more hard blockages to help us overcome that period of being Mr. Hyde, and maybe list them out. This includes things like making your computer difficult to access, installing a safe internet browser, meditation, and so on. It seems lowering access and increasing the passage of time increases the chances that we will come back to our senses in time for urges to pass.

An analogy would be this: If you were a person in power with access to nuclear armaments, but you knew that every 6 days or so, your personality would be hijacked by a wizard casting a spell to get you to launch the nukes, wouldn't you add as many obstacles as possible to make it as difficult as possible to get to the nukes?

I suppose the other option is to try to completely erase that other 1% of the time, but how is it even possible? We all experience emotions and mind fluctuations. Just food for thought!
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 16, 2019, 04:35:43 AM
That's a good idea - using the benefits to help serve as a little mental buffer you need to go through. You saying this gave me an idea: wouldn't it be great to write down on a whiteboard or somewhere visible for yourself all the benefits you've experienced cumulatively, so that in order to relapse, you would need to hurdle over the idea of all the good that you've done, which takes a lot more mental effort? I only say because so many relapses are almost like this: you are yourself, Dr. Jekyll, 99% of the time, but then there's 1% of the time when Mr. Hyde comes out, and it's almost like you're preparing for an entirely different personality, contrary to all your beliefs, to hijack yours. We are preparing ourselves for that 1% of the time. How can we do it better? I think it might benefit us as a community to think of more hard blockages to help us overcome that period of being Mr. Hyde, and maybe list them out. This includes things like making your computer difficult to access, installing a safe internet browser, meditation, and so on. It seems lowering access and increasing the passage of time increases the chances that we will come back to our senses in time for urges to pass.

An analogy would be this: If you were a person in power with access to nuclear armaments, but you knew that every 6 days or so, your personality would be hijacked by a wizard casting a spell to get you to launch the nukes, wouldn't you add as many obstacles as possible to make it as difficult as possible to get to the nukes?

I suppose the other option is to try to completely erase that other 1% of the time, but how is it even possible? We all experience emotions and mind fluctuations. Just food for thought!

That's right, man. A relapse, in my case, happens when I lose control of myself, like you said I become someone else. Then I come back to my senses after the relapse and regret it. Remembering the benefits that we've accumulate and remembering how we feel after relapses are important things. We must remind ourselves that we don't want to lose the benefits and we don't want to feel like shit after relapsing. I've turned on a parental control on my computer, which blocks all the porn websites. I know I could turn it off anytime but you see I am able now to catch myself when the autopilot's button is pressed by the addiction. I am able to say: "Ah, no, I won't look for any porn material." This parental control comes in handy like this. It's like a reminder: "yo, what are you doing? What did you write there? Wasn't you staying away from any porn material?" So far it hasn't happened. I didn't write any porn in the search bar. I always stopped myself when the craving manifested. But I never too safe. Things could happen. I need to be careful.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 16, 2019, 05:20:15 AM
Day 26

Urges again. The craving for dopamine is unbearable. When are those fucking things going to go away? What day?

Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 16, 2019, 10:06:06 AM
From day 22 to day 25, I experienced symptoms of flatline. I felt void of life: empty, no energy, apathetic, aloof, no mood for the day. Today urges came back. I survided a round of brutal urges earlier. But together with urges, life came back to me too. I felt full of life, energized as if I had changed my batteries. It seems that days with urges are days when I'm full of life and days with flatline symptoms are days where it's completely opposite. I can't wait for that day where I'm done with P. I'm tired of urges to be honest and if there are no urges, it's flatline and I hate that too.  >:(
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Non-Dual Adventurer on August 16, 2019, 01:59:13 PM
Yo Lero,

I wonder whether my recent post on my forum will help with this at all. I believe it's really a case of being able to bear anything. You can bear this flatline, and the proof is in the fact that you have not dropped dead. This may seem simplistic, but bear with me.

In Buddhism, there is a prayer that goes as follows:

May everyone be happy,
May everyone be free from misery,
May no one ever be separated from their happiness,
May everyone have equanimity, free from hatred and attachment.

I love this prayer. The first line 'May everyone be happy', is so simple, yet powerful. I mean, what kind of person wouldn't wish that on himself and the world? One who has enemies, perhaps. But why do our enemies show us hate? Because they are in misery.

First thing, your weariness, is a form of misery. You spoke about misery on my forum a few days ago and I answered by saying that I don't experience it so much anymore. I will edit this. I was wrong. Hopelessness and weariness are definitely forms of misery. Misery is defined in the Oxford English Dictionary as 'a state or feeling of great physical or mental distress or discomfort.' Pretty much sums us up, eh?

Moving onto the next line: 'May everyone be free from misery.' Why do we wish everybody to be free from misery? So that they can be happy!

'May no one ever be separated from their happiness'. True happiness, in Buddhism and other Eastern schools of thought, is tantamount to Enlightenment. Enlightenment is very difficult to define, because it is a stateless state that is all-knowing and all-loving. Every being has a Buddha nature. This means, that they are all potential Buddhas (enlightened beings). The enlightened state of consciousness is not wanting, and is not resisting anything. It is imbued with the deep understanding that the cosmic unfolding can never be understood through the human mind or the ego. This doesn't mean we have to sit in a cave and meditate all day, and if a feeling or thought comes we need to reject it. That is not truly wise. We need to find the space within ourselves, simply to observe the feeling of misery. Maybe it helps to label the feeling 'misery' and sit with it. It's not going to kill you. This is, granted the bit I struggle with, because when those urges arise, out of my lack of clarity I usually relapse. Maybe one day I'll practise what I preach!

'May everyone have equanimity, free from hatred and attachment'

Equanimity

noun

mental calmness, composure, and evenness of temper, especially in a difficult situation.


May everyone have mental calmness composure, and evenness of temper, especially in a difficult situation, and may everyone be free from hatred and attachment.

Hatred and attachment? Hatred is more obvious, and it can be interpreted as hatred towards anything or anyone, including P. But it can also include anger and frustration.

Attachment is the real biggie. We have blatant attachments, like our attachments to P, but also more subtle ones, like attachments to our thoughts and feelings relating to P, and to recovery and withdrawal. We have attachments to the concept of the person who is experiencing the misery. How real is this concept? Can this concept of a person be seen? By whom is it seen?

Lastly,

May you be happy,
May you be free from misery,
May you never be separated from your happiness,
May you have equanimity, free from hatred and attachment.







Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Do or die on August 16, 2019, 02:02:01 PM
 keep going
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 16, 2019, 02:09:11 PM
Yo Lero,

I wonder whether my recent post on my forum will help with this at all. I believe it's really a case of being able to bear anything. You can bear this flatline, and the proof is in the fact that you have not dropped dead. This may seem simplistic, but bear with me.

In Buddhism, there is a prayer that goes as follows:

May everyone be happy,
May everyone be free from misery,
May no one ever be separated from their happiness,
May everyone have equanimity, free from hatred and attachment.

I love this prayer. The first line 'May everyone be happy', is so simple, yet powerful. I mean, what kind of person wouldn't wish that on himself and the world? One who has enemies, perhaps. But why do our enemies show us hate? Because they are in misery.

First thing, your weariness, is a form of misery. You spoke about misery on my forum a few days ago and I answered by saying that I don't experience it so much anymore. I will edit this. I was wrong. Hopelessness and weariness are definitely forms of misery. Misery is defined in the Oxford English Dictionary as 'a state or feeling of great physical or mental distress or discomfort.' Pretty much sums us up, eh?

Moving onto the next line: 'May everyone be free from misery.' Why do we wish everybody to be free from misery? So that they can be happy!

'May no one ever be separated from their happiness'. True happiness, in Buddhism and other Eastern schools of thought, is tantamount to Enlightenment. Enlightenment is very difficult to define, because it is a stateless state that is all-knowing and all-loving. Every being has a Buddha nature. This means, that they are all potential Buddhas (enlightened beings). The enlightened state of consciousness is not wanting, and is not resisting anything. It is imbued with the deep understanding that the cosmic unfolding can never be understood through the human mind or the ego. This doesn't mean we have to sit in a cave and meditate all day, and if a feeling or thought comes we need to reject it. That is not truly wise. We need to find the space within ourselves, simply to observe the feeling of misery. Maybe it helps to label the feeling 'misery' and sit with it. It's not going to kill you. This is, granted the bit I struggle with, because when those urges arise, out of my lack of clarity I usually relapse. Maybe one day I'll practise what I preach!

'May everyone have equanimity, free from hatred and attachment'

Equanimity

noun

mental calmness, composure, and evenness of temper, especially in a difficult situation.


May everyone have mental calmness composure, and evenness of temper, especially in a difficult situation, and may everyone be free from hatred and attachment.

Hatred and attachment? Hatred is more obvious, and it can be interpreted as hatred towards anything or anyone, including P. But it can also include anger and frustration.

Attachment is the real biggie. We have blatant attachments, like our attachments to P, but also more subtle ones, like attachments to our thoughts and feelings relating to P, and to recovery and withdrawal. We have attachments to the concept of the person who is experiencing the misery. How real is this concept? Can this concept of a person be seen? By whom is it seen?

Lastly,

May you be happy,
May you be free from misery,
May you never be separated from your happiness,
May you have equanimity, free from hatred and attachment.

Well, I'm not sure I fully understand what you mean but thanks for support.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 16, 2019, 02:09:30 PM
keep going

Thanks.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Non-Dual Adventurer on August 16, 2019, 02:38:34 PM
Quote
Well, I'm not sure I fully understand what you mean but thanks for support.

LMAO  ;D! TLDR version: be kind to yourself. Don't get too involved in thoughts or feelings. Try and keep a distance. Consider meditating.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 16, 2019, 02:40:32 PM
LMAO  ;D! TLDR version: be kind to yourself. Don't get too involved in thoughts or feelings. Try and keep a distance. Consider meditating.

Now we're talking about.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: BlueHeronFan on August 16, 2019, 06:16:34 PM
Just keep at it, and, like the Adventurer said, don't be too hard on yourself in the process.

It's natural to get angry at urges and at our addiction. I think I have tended to react with anger and fear when urges arise. In the last few months, though, I have decided to respond to urges and addiction with kindness and gentleness.

I became addicted because I was trying to escape from pain in my life. My brain learned that PMO gave me enough pleasure to erase the pain for a little while. My brain was only trying to help, even if it was wrong. So I have started to see urges as a continued attempt by my brain to ease whatever pain I am experiencing. Reacting with anger only adds to that pain and intensifies the urge.

Maybe the next time the urges arise, thank your brain for wanting to take care of you in your pain, but also kindly decline its offer. You are learning a better way to take care of your pain.

Keep at it!
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Jay2019 on August 17, 2019, 01:14:57 AM
You seem to me to have great mental strength, Lero.  All those urges, flatlining, struggling, and still you don't give in.  Keep using that stubbornness and determination.  Keep coming in here and posting, keep looking after yourself, and keep your eyes focused on the freedom you are creating for yourself.   Keep going.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 17, 2019, 03:48:14 AM
Just keep at it, and, like the Adventurer said, don't be too hard on yourself in the process.

It's natural to get angry at urges and at our addiction. I think I have tended to react with anger and fear when urges arise. In the last few months, though, I have decided to respond to urges and addiction with kindness and gentleness.

I became addicted because I was trying to escape from pain in my life. My brain learned that PMO gave me enough pleasure to erase the pain for a little while. My brain was only trying to help, even if it was wrong. So I have started to see urges as a continued attempt by my brain to ease whatever pain I am experiencing. Reacting with anger only adds to that pain and intensifies the urge.

Maybe the next time the urges arise, thank your brain for wanting to take care of you in your pain, but also kindly decline its offer. You are learning a better way to take care of your pain.

Keep at it!

Thanks, man, I appreciate it.

Yeah, I've had many days with brutal urges. Yesterday was one of them. It's very annoying but I've noticed that I have harder urges in the first part of the day. If I pass that successfully, then it's better.

I started porn simply because of the pleasure that it brought. The dopamine hit was great. It's like you try cocaine for the first time. It was not to escape any pain, I didn't have any real "pain" at 13-14. But you see, it became a form of soothing too after a while. I was not even aware that I edged uncontrollably for hours to distract myself from reality. Anyway, after 27 days away from porn I feel some benefits. Some emotions are returning to me. I don't feel sedated and unmotivated like I used to.

Fuck porn. Choose life. Porn is the exact opposite of living.

"Porn" and "Poison" start with the same letter.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 17, 2019, 03:48:58 AM
You seem to me to have great mental strength, Lero.  All those urges, flatlining, struggling, and still you don't give in.  Keep using that stubbornness and determination.  Keep coming in here and posting, keep looking after yourself, and keep your eyes focused on the freedom you are creating for yourself.   Keep going.

Thanks for support. I appreciate it.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: NewStart04 on August 17, 2019, 07:03:32 AM
Lero

You're almost at the one-month mark. Stick with it and keep inspiring us with your hard-won progress.

Wishing you the best.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 17, 2019, 07:19:49 AM
Lero

You're almost at the one-month mark. Stick with it and keep inspiring us with your hard-won progress.

Wishing you the best.

Thanks, bro. I appreciate it.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 17, 2019, 08:56:15 AM
Day 27




Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Free-man on August 17, 2019, 09:46:37 AM
It's the withdrawal Lero.
The dopamine wants you come back to IT
Same happens to me, urges, cravings, anxiety, bad sleep, restlessness, change of mood frequently, anger, sadness, depression symptoms… comes to me all these days but we have to fight against it.
It's very difficult to avoid all these feelings and these thoughts because the addiction is with all of us for very long time and knows our triggers and what happen after.

We have to:
- Identify our triggers
- Change our behaviours
- Replace bad habits like this one for good ones

Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 17, 2019, 09:58:05 AM
It's the withdrawal Lero.
The dopamine wants you come back to IT
Same happens to me, urges, cravings, anxiety, bad sleep, restlessness, change of mood frequently, anger, sadness, depression symptoms… comes to me all these days but we have to fight against it.
It's very difficult to avoid all these feelings and these thoughts because the addiction is with all of us for very long time and knows our triggers and what happen after.

We have to:
- Identify our triggers
- Change our behaviours
- Replace bad habits like this one for good ones

Thanks, man. It seems that we have almost the same number of days.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Free-man on August 17, 2019, 10:13:31 AM
Yep, we are close to complete the:

1 month
30 days
720 hours
43200 min
CLEAN without porn in our lives
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 17, 2019, 12:38:34 PM
Yep, we are close to complete the:

1 month
30 days
720 hours
43200 min
CLEAN without porn in our lives

Of course. Man, when you look at the number of minutes...  :o That much without porn for me?
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Free-man on August 17, 2019, 04:35:48 PM
we almost climbed  the 1/3 of the mountain
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 17, 2019, 04:42:25 PM
we almost climbed  the 1/3 of the mountain

Yes, man. It's been hard.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Do or die on August 18, 2019, 12:21:10 AM
Yes bro you are successful rebooter now. You just need to reboot your health now. So concentrate on your health problems now
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 18, 2019, 03:50:33 AM
Yes bro you are successful rebooter now. You just need to reboot your health now. So concentrate on your health problems now

Thanks, man. Focus on your recovery too and make it to 2 weeks this time, after 10 days last time.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Do or die on August 18, 2019, 06:24:17 AM
Bro feeling withdrawals are much better than relapse. Be there . fight and guide us.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 18, 2019, 06:25:40 AM
Bro feeling withdrawals are much better than relapse. Be there . fight and guide us.

Thanks. I appreciate it.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 18, 2019, 02:34:46 PM
Day 28

4 weeks without P.




Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: NewStart04 on August 19, 2019, 02:01:34 AM
You reached a month! That's fantastic!

I am hoping that during this next month of your journey, the relentless fantasies, flashbacks and urges that have been plaguing you begin to die down and become less noticeable. Either way, I think you have the fortitude to bring yourself to two months (my longest streak) and beyond.

Best of luck!
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 19, 2019, 03:18:19 AM
You reached a month! That's fantastic!

I am hoping that during this next month of your journey, the relentless fantasies, flashbacks and urges that have been plaguing you begin to die down and become less noticeable. Either way, I think you have the fortitude to bring yourself to two months (my longest streak) and beyond.

Best of luck!

That will be Wednesday (31 days, some months have 30 days I don't know, Tuesday - Wednesday is 1 month anyway). But yeah, just a day or two. It still looks so unreal to me even though it didn't happen by luck, I know how I got here.

Many thanks for the wish and support, man.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: NewStart04 on August 19, 2019, 04:40:13 AM
Yea, the duration differs depending on the calendar month. I use 7 days = a week and 4 weeks = a month, so that I have a fixed basis for what I mean by a month, but I understand if you are using a different duration. A 31-day month's worth of progress is definitely more than a 28-day one. 
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 19, 2019, 04:40:57 AM
Yea, the duration differs depending on the calendar month. I use 7 days = a week and 4 weeks = a month, so that I have a fixed basis for what I mean by a month, but I understand if you are using a different duration. A 31-day month's worth of progress is definitely more than a 28-day one.

The months don't even matter. The days matter.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Pete McVries on August 19, 2019, 07:58:41 AM
Congratulations on a month clean! Keep on grinding!

I just wanted to quickly comment on the 1/3 of the mountain comment. While that might be true when it comes to abstaining from PMO, there are always new challenges. Once you've reached the mountain top, there might be a really cold and rough lake that you need to pass through next. And after that you might need to find your way through a thick forest that you can get lost in easily. And so on...

The good news is, you are both able-bodied and able-minded to meet these challenges. And you grow with each new accomplishment. But it's important to step up to the plate and travel at your own pace.

If I'm not mistaken, you struggle with social anxiety a bit, so rewiring probably seems like a nerve-wrecking thing right now. And it can be at first, but most likely you will get used to it and in the end enjoy it to the fullest.

Take care!
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 19, 2019, 08:22:42 AM
Congratulations on a month clean! Keep on grinding!

I just wanted to quickly comment on the 1/3 of the mountain comment. While that might be true when it comes to abstaining from PMO, there are always new challenges. Once you've reached the mountain top, there might be a really cold and rough lake that you need to pass through next. And after that you might need to find your way through a thick forest that you can get lost in easily. And so on...

The good news is, you are both able-bodied and able-minded to meet these challenges. And you grow with each new accomplishment. But it's important to step up to the plate and travel at your own pace.

If I'm not mistaken, you struggle with social anxiety a bit, so rewiring probably seems like a nerve-wrecking thing right now. And it can be at first, but most likely you will get used to it and in the end enjoy it to the fullest.

Take care!

Thanks, man. I appreciate the encouragement and support.

I suffer from anxiety, it's true. Social anxiety and panic disorder. I actually have some mild-OCD too and some hypochondria-like manifestations (or maybe this is the OCD, I don't know). I'm dealing with some emotional stuff. The rebooting so far has been tough. I don't want to think about the number of days, I've no idea when I'm done with this, maybe after a long time, this is just the first month but I've noticed some changes already that I like. The disappearance of all the emotional problems is not one of them though, and maybe not P is the one guilty for them or maybe it is and I still need more time. I have no idea now. I have to eliminate potential causes and see what's the problem. P is one of them.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 19, 2019, 08:24:15 AM
Day 29

29 days without a relapse. I'm accepting my withdrawal suffering, waiting for the day when it will be gone.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: achilles heel on August 19, 2019, 10:50:33 AM
You are amazing, almost a month complete after you couldn't go a week not long ago!  :)

This is the right track, just keep going and things will become easier. Just remember all the suffering you went through, now it's important to go the rest of the road to success! It's totally worth it and you can do it!
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 19, 2019, 10:57:25 AM
You are amazing, almost a month complete after you couldn't go a week not long ago!  :)

This is the right track, just keep going and things will become easier. Just remember all the suffering you went through, now it's important to go the rest of the road to success! It's totally worth it and you can do it!

Thanks for the support, man. I appreciate it. You're doing great too.

I am surprised myself. Even though I know exactly how I got to this point, and that it was not by mistake/luck etc., it still looks so unreal. Probably I've found my way. I don't want to relapse and start again from day 1. I will have to go through those urges again to get back to day 29 and I really don't want that. The only thing that takes away the urges is time. I have to accept that I am addicted and withdrawal cannot be avoided. It's suffering but there is no other way. You know, I look at it in this way: I've covered a part of the road of suffering already.

 
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Do or die on August 19, 2019, 12:40:44 PM
Congratulations lero. I am also at this point at some time. Lero just understand that everyone has different withdrawals and withdrawaw time period . so be strong at this point . withdrawals are always better than a relapse.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 19, 2019, 12:42:46 PM
Congratulations lero. I am also at this point at some time. Lero just understand that everyone has different withdrawals and withdrawaw time period . so be strong at this point . withdrawals are always better than a relapse.

I know.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: BlueHeronFan on August 19, 2019, 05:03:36 PM
Way to be, man! Stay mindful and keep it going!
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 20, 2019, 04:30:16 AM
Way to be, man! Stay mindful and keep it going!

Thanks, man.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 20, 2019, 09:54:59 AM
1 month

Some months have 30 days so it's safe to say that I have 1 calendar month without this fucking poison. It's been very tough. The hardest thing I've ever decided to do in my life. Because this is "1 month anniversary", maybe this post will get long after writting some of the things I've realized so far.

I've been reflecting on my addiction and I think I've understood a little bit how it works. I've had an uncontrollable craving for porn and I believe it is activated by some triggers. This is a (maybe incomplete) list of my triggers: Lack of dating life in the present, lack of sex, anxiety, stress, having a hard day, fights with people, feeling depressed. I've realized that when I have this craving to search for porn, it's because of at least one of those triggers. It works something like this: Lack of sex? PMO. Feeling sad about being single? PMO for soothing. Anxiety? PMO to relax. Basically, I guess if I draw the line and come to a conclusion, PMO is really my form of soothing/antidepressant/comfort/escape-distraction from reality. I've trained myself without realizing to expect something to comfort me at the end of the day. It's like when you are a kid, you hit your finger, you start crying and your mom hugs you. I knew that no matter what happened during the day, I could always run home and ask porn to "hug me". I didn't know how to deal with my discomfort in other way and this is because of having porn in my life since I was 14. I grew up on a porn antidepressant prescription. Quitting this addiction cold turkey has revealed a lot of things to me. It pushes you to handle your life without resorting to porn which is how it's supposed to be. It's a new teritory for me which seems scary now: Dealing with my life without the soothing of porn. I think I need some time to get used to it.

After a month without porn, I've noticed some changes:
- More energy;
- More mood to do things;
- I tolerate things more;
- I have an overall sense of well-being. I am not anymore the sedated, aloof, apathetic zombie;
- I enjoy some things more;
- Less brain fog;
- Better concentration ability;
- More patience to do something until it's finished;

Things are clear: Abstaining from porn makes me function better overall. There are little nuances in the way I conduct myself that I've noticed. Maybe others too.

The last list is the good part. The bad part is, of course, the withdrawal.

There is no addiction without withdrawal. Unfortunately, if we want to quit porn, we need to face the withdrawal. I've come to accept the suffering because going crazy about it won't make it go away. I still need to go through it. Only like this I could reach that day when everything is over.

For many days I walked the thin line between relapsing and continuing. I've had days when I was sure I was going to relapse. My whole body felt like this. I think the craving for porn, that I discussed earlier, makes the urges strong. That overwhelming "arousal". Maybe it's because of the anticipation. A trigger makes me crave porn for soothing and then the anticipation of an eventual porn session activates the arousal.

However, the streak got longer and I didn't want to go back to day 1. I want to quit porn so much so I have to start again when I reset my streak after a binge. And starting again means that, if I want to reach 1 month one more time, I will have to go through those hard days again. The strong craving for porn, the strong urges. I don't want this. I don't want to re-live those days again because they've been fucking hard. So this is one of the reasons why I am so stubborn to go on. Also, I've covered a part of the withdrawal period, I have less now than when I started (30 days less). Sometimes, sitting down, doing some thinking and rationalizing everything could save you. I don't want just to follow my impulses as long as I can think.

Anyway, I want to say one more thing: It's possible. I considered myself a hard case after seeing how I kept relapsing every 4th day (with binge). I thought I had no chance and now I've made it to 1 month just like that. Also, some people from this forum have contributed to this streak. I walked and they pushed me from behind.





Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: achilles heel on August 20, 2019, 10:43:09 AM
1 month

Some months have 30 days so it's safe to say that I have 1 calendar month without this fucking poison.

Congratulations on your amazing success! :)

Quitting this addiction cold turkey has revealed a lot of things to me. It pushes you to handle your life without resorting to porn which is how it's supposed to be. It's a new teritory for me which seems scary now: Dealing with my life without the soothing of porn. I think I need some time to get used to it.

This is the crucial point: You will need time. We grew up with porn, I also started at age 14 and after years and years of using this drug to escape reality, we won't enter a shiny happy world. There will be difficult situations putting us on temptation again and with every time we say "No!" the cravings become less and we are one step closer to a healthier and more fullfilling life.

I want to quit porn so much so I have to start again when I reset my streak after a binge. And starting again means that, if I want to reach 1 month one more time, I will have to go through those hard days again. The strong craving for porn, the strong urges. I don't want this. I don't want to re-live those days again because they've been fucking hard. So this is one of the reasons why I am so stubborn to go on.

The same thought helps me a lot too, just keep remembering this even if you go on another month or even further. It's easy to forget all the suffering after a relapse and return to our ever helping medicine.

Just keep going, you're through the worst stage yet and from now on it should become a little easier. If you don't lower your guards, you will succeed! :)
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Pete McVries on August 20, 2019, 10:49:05 AM
Great reflections, Lero! I'm really happy for you, you've come a long way!

A few months ago, someone on another forum posted an interesting graph. The author analyzed the relapses of fellow rebooters and collected the data (sample size about 9000 rebooters). It showed that after a certain period of clean days, the likelihood of relapeses decrease drastically.

(https://i.imgur.com/Nt7ma2B.jpg)

You already passed the critical points of three, seven, and ten days. Be aware of the relapses at around 45 days ;). After that the Delta Fos-B also should have decreased significantly or starts decreasing so insane cravings should also become less frequently and intense.

There is good fortune down the road. Don't get distracted by sirens calling ;)
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 20, 2019, 11:23:53 AM
Pete, thanks for the support, man. Interesting graph. Day 3 was easy but days 7 and 10, man... That's another thing. On day 7 I woke up with a crazy craving for porn, I barely dragged myself out of it. I can't wait until this craving leaves me alone.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 20, 2019, 11:26:12 AM
@achilles heel, thanks for the support, man. I can't wait until it gets a lot easier cause it's been hard.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: mattdes on August 20, 2019, 03:55:18 PM
Keep going Lero. You are doing great. I feel no urges for porn and just the urge to have sex or masturbate. Without the p i find it difficult so I guess that is somewhat of a godsend. I have really managed to block the p from my thought process. Could it be I hit rock bottom? Could it be I got so furious that now I hate it and don't want to ever see it again.
Let's see! Because I know from enough failed attempts in the past that the urges and triggers can come at you from nowhere. But keep with the mindset that reality is always better than pixels. I just want that feeling.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 20, 2019, 04:00:45 PM
Keep going Lero. You are doing great. I feel no urges for porn and just the urge to have sex or masturbate. Without the p i find it difficult so I guess that is somewhat of a godsend. I have really managed to block the p from my thought process. Could it be I hit rock bottom? Could it be I got so furious that now I hate it and don't want to ever see it again.
Let's see! Because I know from enough failed attempts in the past that the urges and triggers can come at you from nowhere. But keep with the mindset that reality is always better than pixels. I just want that feeling.

I know, man. I had to "train" myself to be disgusted with triggers otherwise they got me. I've trained myself to close the trigger, look away, become disgusted and say: "Ah, no, trigger again? Get the fuck out of my face! I know what you are trying to accomplish here but I am not your client anymore!" And it worked! It's still working. I can't erase porn completely from this world (If I could I would) but I can choose to get away from it (and even when I bump into a trigger accidently, I can choose to get away from it mentally). I can't dry the ocean but I can get out of the water. I could not be disgusted by porn naturally so I had to make myself disgusted. Choose life. Porn and living are complete opposite. Walking around like an aloof, exhausted, unmotivated, weak guy is not my thing anymore.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Jay2019 on August 20, 2019, 04:34:28 PM
Keep going Lero. You are doing great. I feel no urges for porn and just the urge to have sex or masturbate. Without the p i find it difficult so I guess that is somewhat of a godsend. I have really managed to block the p from my thought process. Could it be I hit rock bottom? Could it be I got so furious that now I hate it and don't want to ever see it again.
Let's see! Because I know from enough failed attempts in the past that the urges and triggers can come at you from nowhere. But keep with the mindset that reality is always better than pixels. I just want that feeling.

I know, man. I had to "train" myself to be disgusted with triggers otherwise they got me. I've trained myself to close the trigger, look away, become disgusted and say: "Ah, no, trigger again? Get the fuck out of my face! I know what you are trying to accomplish here but I am not your client anymore!" And it worked! It's still working. I can't erase porn completely from this world (If I could I would) but I can choose to get away from it (and even when I bump into a trigger accidently, I can choose to get away from it mentally). I can't dry the ocean but I can get out of the water. I could not be disgusted by porn naturally so I had to make myself disgusted. Choose life. Porn and living are complete opposite. Walking around like an aloof, exhausted, unmotivated, weak guy is not my thing anymore.

Well said.  I feel your anger - the good and useful kind.  I'm refusing to let the compulsion wreck my life, too.  Choose life, Lero...your resolve and fight reinforce mine. 
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 20, 2019, 04:40:35 PM
Well said.  I feel your anger - the good and useful kind.  I'm refusing to let the compulsion wreck my life, too.  Choose life, Lero...your resolve and fight reinforce mine.

Thanks, man. I appreciate that. We're in this together. I had to "get mad" at porn, I needed to "hate it" to be disgusted by it in order to be able to walk away from it. The good kind of "anger" and "hate". It made me feel alive and wanting to beat this poison that kept me a mediocre man since high school.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Jay2019 on August 20, 2019, 05:06:27 PM
Well said.  I feel your anger - the good and useful kind.  I'm refusing to let the compulsion wreck my life, too.  Choose life, Lero...your resolve and fight reinforce mine.

Thanks, man. I appreciate that. We're in this together. I had to "get mad" at porn, I needed to "hate it" to be disgusted by it in order to be able to walk away from it. The good kind of "anger" and "hate". It made me feel alive and wanting to beat this poison that kept me a mediocre man since high school.

I hear you on all of that.  Completely identify.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 20, 2019, 05:29:04 PM
I can't watch movies and TV series because of the risk of triggers. But if this is what I have to do, this is what I will do. Anything to quit this fucking poison.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: BlueHeronFan on August 20, 2019, 06:46:52 PM
A few months ago, someone on another forum posted an interesting graph. The author analyzed the relapses of fellow rebooters and collected the data (sample size about 9000 rebooters). It showed that after a certain period of clean days, the likelihood of relapeses decrease drastically.

Wow! That's a really interesting and encouraging graph. Thanks for sharing!

But if this is what I have to do, this is what I will do. 

This is a really important attitude to adopt. So many times we want to quit the addiction without quitting any of the triggers, and that is obviously a path to failure. Cut off the triggers, and you'll cut the addiction off at its source.

Keep it going man! You fought hard for this month, so just keep on fighting!
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: pichaelthompson on August 20, 2019, 07:33:42 PM
That's awesome you hit 1 month man; you are setting a great example for others to follow you, when maybe not too long ago you were looking up to others more. Making no PMO your #1 priority resonates with me because it positively affects all other aspects of life, atleast in the long term. Keep it up, I can feel your drive and desire to rid yourself of this poison and it motivates me to do the same.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: squid on August 20, 2019, 10:16:00 PM
Congrats Lero, a month is awesome!
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 21, 2019, 03:25:20 AM
A few months ago, someone on another forum posted an interesting graph. The author analyzed the relapses of fellow rebooters and collected the data (sample size about 9000 rebooters). It showed that after a certain period of clean days, the likelihood of relapeses decrease drastically.

Wow! That's a really interesting and encouraging graph. Thanks for sharing!

But if this is what I have to do, this is what I will do. 

This is a really important attitude to adopt. So many times we want to quit the addiction without quitting any of the triggers, and that is obviously a path to failure. Cut off the triggers, and you'll cut the addiction off at its source.

Keep it going man! You fought hard for this month, so just keep on fighting!

Thanks, man. I appreciate that. It's been hard, I had days when I didn't think I could make it to the next day. My whole body felt like it was about to relapse soon. But it seems that my stubbornness to stop myself from searching for porn material was the biggest help. And to stop edging to flashbacks. Those two have made all the difference. 
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 21, 2019, 03:33:29 AM
That's awesome you hit 1 month man; you are setting a great example for others to follow you, when maybe not too long ago you were looking up to others more. Making no PMO your #1 priority resonates with me because it positively affects all other aspects of life, atleast in the long term. Keep it up, I can feel your drive and desire to rid yourself of this poison and it motivates me to do the same.

Thanks, man. I appreciate it. I didn't think that my 1 month streak will be so textbook. It's one month without edging to fantasies and flashbacks and one month in which I didn't search deliberately for porn. I didn't even peek. I knew that this was what I had to do when I started this streak but I didn't think it will really go on so well. I had days when I thought: "Okay, man, this thing worked in the beginning but now when the urges are hard, there is no way you will survive the rest of the day." But it kept working. Day after day I managed to go to sleep without a relapse. I am impressed myself. But you see, I know exactly how I got to this point. It was not by chance, it didn't just happen. It worked because I got rid of what sabotaged me. I didn't throw gas on fire. Urges were hard but I didn't feed them. Everybody can do it. You can do it too, all of us here could do it. The method is not hard but only those who are willing to accept the withdrawal suffering and go through it until it's over will escape. You can't without enduring this. I couldn't have made it to 1 month without enduring a lot of days with hard withdrawal. And you know, it shows you that you are capable of more than you thought. 2 months ago I gave in when urges on day 4 started and now I've survived maybe 17 or 18 really hard days, not just 1. When you think you are not capable, you actually are, you just have to show it to yourself and push past the limits that you think you have (which are not your real limits).
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 21, 2019, 03:34:22 AM
Congrats Lero, a month is awesome!

Thanks, man. I appreciate it. You're doing great too.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Do or die on August 21, 2019, 03:53:35 AM
Congratulations
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 21, 2019, 03:55:47 AM
Congratulations

Thanks, man. I appreciate it.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 21, 2019, 08:23:07 AM
Day 31

Today I had a round of painful anxiety that started an unbearable craving for porn for comfort. This craving created a wave of strong urges. I began making plans for porn. Then thoughts about "Do it" and "Don't do it" started alternating rapidly in my mind. All the frustration I had came to me. I felt lonely, depressed. Yeah, you could say I felt pretty miserable. I tried to talk myself out of my porn plans but my body didn't feel that way. There was no inch of my body that actually felt that feeling of "going on". My whole body wanted porn. I had crossed the line in my mind and I tried desperately to pull myself back from there. I felt like walking on a tightrope and that it took a tone of determination not to give up and jump down from there. I felt powerless and hopeless in front of the anxiety, and the same in front of the craving and urges for porn. How the fuck I calmed myself down from all this, nobody knows. I was 1 inch away from "fuck it". Yesterday I felt great and today...



Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: achilles heel on August 21, 2019, 01:33:40 PM
I'm sorry to hear you're going through that much trouble, but at the same time happy you resisted once again. You've come too far to go back, this is your way and it's the right way. Don't allow your mind any negotiations, just shut down every inner monologue about whether or not going back to porn, because you DON'T want to go back EVER again! To my experience the only solution is just saying "No!" and going for any healthy distraction. If cravings hit again, go out for a walk, do some exercises, do anything to keep you away from negotiating with your addiction!
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 21, 2019, 01:54:55 PM
I'm sorry to hear you're going through that much trouble, but at the same time happy you resisted once again. You've come too far to go back, this is your way and it's the right way. Don't allow your mind any negotiations, just shut down every inner monologue about whether or not going back to porn, because you DON'T want to go back EVER again! To my experience the only solution is just saying "No!" and going for any healthy distraction. If cravings hit again, go out for a walk, do some exercises, do anything to keep you away from negotiating with your addiction!

Thanks.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 21, 2019, 02:33:13 PM
I barely made it out alive. I am exhausted. I was this close. I am going through some very stressful bullshit plus the fucking anxiety hurts me. I had this extreme craving to use porn because porn is my "painkiller". Fucking stupid shit.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Pete McVries on August 21, 2019, 04:24:53 PM
I'm really sorry to hear that. Ideally, you should spend as much time away from phones and computers and anything that you can access the internet in private with. If you have close friends, call them and just talk, about anything really. Better meet up. Maybe visit your parents and read a book on their sofa or just sleep if you feel like it. Until the waves pass.

Sending you some strength!
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Jay2019 on August 21, 2019, 05:13:50 PM
Well done for not giving into that craving, man.  Remember, it's just the dopamine, etc...feels like being fucking possessed, but is actually just a temporary neurochemical imbalance!

What else works for you in terms of managing the anxiety?  What have you tried? 
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 21, 2019, 05:21:48 PM
Well done for not giving into that craving, man.  Remember, it's just the dopamine, etc...feels like being fucking possessed, but is actually just a temporary neurochemical imbalance!

What else works for you in terms of managing the anxiety?  What have you tried?

Sometimes I have some bouts of anxiety like today and this craving to use porn for comfort is annoying. It creates some hard urges. There are two voices in my head, one tells me "Do it" the other tells me "Don't do it". But you know, no matter how much I say "Don't do it", sometimes my body feels completely opposite. My whole body just wanted porn and there was only this voice that said "No". I barely dragged myself out of the "porn state" that I was in.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 21, 2019, 05:22:43 PM
I'm really sorry to hear that. Ideally, you should spend as much time away from phones and computers and anything that you can access the internet in private with. If you have close friends, call them and just talk, about anything really. Better meet up. Maybe visit your parents and read a book on their sofa or just sleep if you feel like it. Until the waves pass.

Sending you some strength!

Thanks, man. I appreciate the advice.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Non-Dual Adventurer on August 21, 2019, 05:28:17 PM
You're doing amazingly, mate. I can't even get past 2 days atm so your way ahead of me and are on the road to success! Those cravings are hell, but you now have the groundwork laid for your full recovery.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 21, 2019, 05:35:22 PM
You're doing amazingly, mate. I can't even get past 2 days atm so your way ahead of me and are on the road to success! Those cravings are hell, but you now have the groundwork laid for your full recovery.

Thanks, man. To say that I've been through hell so far would be an understatement. The hardest part is what goes on in my mind because of porn abstinence. It's killing me. The craving for porn is unbearable sometimes. The determination kept pushing me. You see, I know very well why I want to quit porn. It's not only stuff like "It does changes to the brain, it causes PIED". Of course it does all this and they are perfect reason to quit but I look at how I am when I keep porn in my life. I look at my mediocre life, I look at my aloof, apathetic, sedated, unmotivated self. I look at my social life, I look at my lack of motivation to exceed my mediocre condition. I look at my non-existent dating life. This is why I haven't relapsed until now, despise suffering like fucking crazy, at least mentally. I don't know how others feel, but for me it's been hard.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Arthur2 on August 21, 2019, 07:44:39 PM
Man, your struggle on day 31 is pretty impressive.
Glad you made it through.

It makes me think that if you can make it through such a difficult day of withdrawals, i can make it too.

I also can relate to the two voices fighting in my head.
 "Do it !"   "Don' t do it!"

Congratulations, fellow.

Please stay strong. We need you as a "scout" ahead on this journey and your advice has been really helpful to me so far.

I think i can make it this time thanks to my journal.

I relapsed 4 days ago as i mentionned on my own journal but i feel like i am getting back on track right away this time, unlike previous relapses, where it took weeks to make an other "attempt".
And that is because of that journal.

Blessings on you.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 22, 2019, 01:47:51 AM
Man, your struggle on day 31 is pretty impressive.
Glad you made it through.

It makes me think that if you can make it through such a difficult day of withdrawals, i can make it too.

I also can relate to the two voices fighting in my head.
 "Do it !"   "Don' t do it!"

Congratulations, fellow.

Please stay strong. We need you as a "scout" ahead on this journey and your advice has been really helpful to me so far.

I think i can make it this time thanks to my journal.

I relapsed 4 days ago as i mentionned on my own journal but i feel like i am getting back on track right away this time, unlike previous relapses, where it took weeks to make an other "attempt".
And that is because of that journal.

Blessings on you.

Arthur, thanks man. I appreciate it. Yeah, I guess there is nothing you can't do after you survive a day like that.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 22, 2019, 03:59:39 AM
Day 32

I function better thanks to porn abstinence. My mind works better. I am surprised by the way I speak, how words come out. I conduct myself in a way that is so distant from the unmotivated, aloof, apathetic, lethargic weak guy from a month ago. There are things I like so much about myself right now, how the fuck would I relapse now? Why would I lose this? There is no fucking way. Yesterday was very hard. Today is easier. The hard road has sections with straight, smooth paths and sections with bumps.

Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: NewStart04 on August 22, 2019, 11:05:04 AM
Day 32

I function better thanks to porn abstinence. My mind works better. I am surprised by the way I speak, how words come out. I conduct myself in a way that is so distant from the unmotivated, aloof, apathetic, lethargic weak guy from a month ago. There are things I like so much about myself right now, how the fuck would I relapse now? Why would I lose this? There is no fucking way. Yesterday was very hard. Today is easier. The hard road has sections with straight, smooth paths and sections with bumps.

I know the previous day rattled you pretty hard, but you weathered the storm and came out that much stronger. Congratulations Lero. There's the old, porn-addicted you, and there's the developing, evolving you that is leaving this addiction behind.

There's this story about an old man telling his grandson about two wolves that are battling within for dominion over his being. One is a destructive presence and the other is a constructive one. The grandchild asks which wolf will win, and the old man replies "the one you feed." If I were to steal from this analogy, I'd say you had a tough battle yesterday, but you fed the right wolf. Keep on nourishing this presence within you, and you yourself will change.

Glad to see this you is back on top.

Take care
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 22, 2019, 11:12:41 AM
I know the previous day rattled you pretty hard, but you weathered the storm and came out that much stronger. Congratulations Lero. There's the old, porn-addicted you, and there's the developing, evolving you that is leaving this addiction behind.

There's this story about an old man telling his grandson about two wolves that are battling within for dominion over his being. One is a destructive presence and the other is a constructive one. The grandchild asks which wolf will win, and the old man replies "the one you feed." If I were to steal from this analogy, I'd say you had a tough battle yesterday, but you fed the right wolf. Keep on nourishing this presence within you, and you yourself will change.

Glad to see this you is back on top.

Take care

Thanks, man. I appreciate that. I like the story. It was very hard, I crossed a tightrope but there is no evolving without hard work. This recovery is a thing that I need and it asks for hard work, it won't be easy and I've seen this. But it makes you stronger. Abstaining from something so hard to abstain from, makes you tougher. It makes you able to control other things in your life and not give in to impulses.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: BlueHeronFan on August 22, 2019, 06:26:36 PM
Way to get through that wave of urges! That's a big win.

In my experience this year, I have seen how over time those waves get less intense and less frequent. I guess it's like shaking a bucket of water and then stopping: the waves keep going for a while but they eventually go away if you don't keep adding energy to the system.

I think every relapse sets off another series of waves. Stay clean long enough and there won't be as much to ramp up those urges, and they'll eventually start fading away.

So keep at it! Every day longer is another day stronger!
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Jay2019 on August 23, 2019, 02:14:34 AM
Day 32

I function better thanks to porn abstinence. My mind works better. I am surprised by the way I speak, how words come out. I conduct myself in a way that is so distant from the unmotivated, aloof, apathetic, lethargic weak guy from a month ago. There are things I like so much about myself right now, how the fuck would I relapse now? Why would I lose this? There is no fucking way. Yesterday was very hard. Today is easier. The hard road has sections with straight, smooth paths and sections with bumps.

It's a beautiful thing to take charge of our minds, to articulate ourselves in the way that makes us feel satisfied and heard.  That's a sure sign of recovery in all addictions.  Emotional states are always temporary, always pass.  Keep going, Lero.  Inspiring as ever, man.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 23, 2019, 04:23:27 AM
Way to get through that wave of urges! That's a big win.

In my experience this year, I have seen how over time those waves get less intense and less frequent. I guess it's like shaking a bucket of water and then stopping: the waves keep going for a while but they eventually go away if you don't keep adding energy to the system.

I think every relapse sets off another series of waves. Stay clean long enough and there won't be as much to ramp up those urges, and they'll eventually start fading away.

So keep at it! Every day longer is another day stronger!

Thanks, man. Of course, if the addiction is starved, it will eventually lose its power.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 23, 2019, 04:24:01 AM
It's a beautiful thing to take charge of our minds, to articulate ourselves in the way that makes us feel satisfied and heard.  That's a sure sign of recovery in all addictions.  Emotional states are always temporary, always pass.  Keep going, Lero.  Inspiring as ever, man.

Thanks, man. Take care of you too.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Free-man on August 23, 2019, 06:13:47 AM
Congratulations Lero!!!

How do you feel man?
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 23, 2019, 06:20:45 AM
Congratulations Lero!!!

How do you feel man?

Thanks, man.

How do I feel? I feel well. I mean, I really feel well. I have a better well-being than ever. Being heavily invested in the porn prescription could never make me feel alright. Porn abstinence is the key. It does changes in you. Actually, it brings back the "real you", how you are supposed to feel. You don't know how you are supposed to feel anymore after years of porn (in my case 14). Now after 33 days without porn, I feel some emotions that didn't exist only 2 months ago.

Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Free-man on August 23, 2019, 06:41:03 AM
That's great man!
In my case I don't feel anything yet, trying to fill my time in other things like exercise, reading, walks and finding new things to replace porn time.
I will need years of recovery after 30 years of p. I wish to fix all the problems that porn has made to me.

Flatline and fogged mind yet, no much motivation and low self-steem sometimes but determination and faith rules.

Stay strong!
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 23, 2019, 06:46:50 AM
That's great man!
In my case I don't feel anything yet, trying to fill my time in other things like exercise, reading, walks and finding new things to replace porn time.
I will need years of recovery after 30 years of p. I wish to fix all the problems that porn has made to me.

Flatline and fogged mind yet, no much motivation and low self-steem sometimes but determination and faith rules.

Stay strong!

Thanks, man. Yeah, I guess the longer you use porn, the more affected you could be. I feel bad for the guys who are in their 40s and have only discovered about porn addiction now. It makes me appreciate more the fact that I've discovered about it at 28. Stay strong and keep going, man. You say your streak is 34 days, this is substantial. We don't need to go back to porn. Porn is poison. Ironically, they start with the same letter to evidentiate the fact.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Free-man on August 23, 2019, 07:41:52 AM
Yes. Porn is poison. wise words!
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 23, 2019, 09:40:42 AM
Beware of things like alcohol or drugs, if they have the tendency to make you relapse. I can't drink alcohol anymore because it puts me in that state were I am not "100% me", I don't think clearly and I have this tendency to say "fuck it, PMO will be great". Also, if I drink more, after I sober up I feel like I face some sort of chaser effect or something. It's that kind of chaser effect feeling that pushes me to look for P.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Free-man on August 23, 2019, 09:52:52 AM
chaser effect = dopamine monster wants a little more of it

Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 23, 2019, 10:01:07 AM
chaser effect = dopamine monster wants a little more of it

That's right. Complete starvation for the addiction.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 23, 2019, 12:02:49 PM
Day 33

Today I was alright. I didn't struggle. I had a couple of occasional bouts of urges but nothing difficult. Hallucinating in a chemical hell is not my idea of having fun. Choose life. Get out of the incinerator and let the fire extinguish itself, don't throw gas on it. But the incinerator, like the prison, is of the mind. It is only through pain that we escape the pleasure, and this time the pleasure must end. And the pain one day too.

Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: mattdes on August 23, 2019, 12:34:24 PM
Day 33

Today I was alright. I didn't struggle. I had a couple of occasional bouts of urges but nothing difficult. Hallucinating in a chemical hell is not my idea of having fun. Choose life. Get out of the incinerator and let the fire extinguish itself, don't throw gas on it. But the incinerator, like the prison, is of the mind. It is only through pain that we escape the pleasure, and this time the pleasure must end. And the pain one day too.

Yeah fuck those urges!!!!
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 23, 2019, 12:42:22 PM
Yeah fuck those urges!!!!

Fuck urges.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Arthur2 on August 23, 2019, 01:16:52 PM
I like that idea of starving the addiction.

Recently i have started imagine myself strangling the addiction like i was strangling a monster with my bare hands, and instead of me suffering from the addiction, that was the monster/addiction suffering a painful death at my hand.

Every time you succesfully resist an urge, you tighten that strangling to the neck of the monster and it becomes closer to it' s death.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 23, 2019, 01:20:52 PM
I like that idea of starving the addiction.

Recently i have started imagine myself strangling the addiction like i was strangling a monster with my bare hands, and instead of me suffering from the addiction, that was the monster/addiction suffering a painful death at my hand.

Every time you succesfully resist an urge, you tighten that strangling to the neck of the monster and it becomes closer to it' s death.

Hell yeah!
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 23, 2019, 01:35:46 PM
Quit P or die tryin.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Arthur2 on August 24, 2019, 08:01:37 AM
Have you put in place new activities in your life such as music, workout, readin... To help you fill your time with healthy stuff and transmute your sexual energy, since you started your journey ?
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 24, 2019, 08:07:04 AM
Have you put in place new activities in your life such as music, workout, readin... To help you fill your time with healthy stuff and transmute your sexual energy, since you started your journey ?

I could do better.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 24, 2019, 01:09:13 PM
Day 34

Today wasn't a good day. I have a cold and it made me feel low in energy and mood. I also had bouts of anxiety.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Do or die on August 24, 2019, 01:35:46 PM
I am also not Able to sleep at night today. This is a weekend and it taking so hard .
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 24, 2019, 01:47:33 PM
I am also not Able to sleep at night today. This is a weekend and it taking so hard .

Yeah, weekends could be tough.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 25, 2019, 09:29:47 AM
Day 35

I MO-ed again today (without P) for the third time since I started this streak. I could not control my hard urges created by a strong, painful round of anxiety. Although, after MO-ing for the first time on day 21, I decided to go hard mode, I haven't been able to implement this the right way. The first two times, I MO-ed after drinking. Usually this made me PMO but I decided to only MO instead, without watching P and without fantasizing about it. It's still a big victory. After MO-ing for the second time because of alcohol (day 32 so only 3 days ago), I made the decision to stay away from drinking, which I did, only to MO again today with no alcohol involved. Now, I don't know how much those MO sessions have dragged me back, how much gains I've lost because of them. Does this affect the rebooting? I know it creates the chaser effect (I fucking hate this), but I've had everything under control. Each time the MO session took about 10 minutes or less and I didn't follow it with a binge, I didn't do it in consecutive days either. I wonder if I should reset my counter and start from day 1 hard mode (because I haven't been doing hard mode so far).

Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Free-man on August 25, 2019, 04:18:32 PM
Stay strong and continue Lero, don't feel guilty.
Be careful with the chaser effect , it will go for you.

It's great that you're on day 35. Congratulations!
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 25, 2019, 04:21:19 PM
Stay strong and continue Lero, don't feel guilty.
Be careful with the chaser effect , it will go for you.

It's great that you're on day 35. Congratulations!

Thanks, man.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: mattdes on August 25, 2019, 05:41:25 PM
Don't worry man. I mo'd today but using youtube could be still seen as p and cheating. No nudity or p but still gave in. Back on the horse now. I'm going to immediately forget about it. That was my longest streak so I'm pleased. I'll do another streak now and hopefully I'll go longer. Porn is gone !!! But these other things youtube instagram etc are just as bad. I wont fool myself about that.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 25, 2019, 05:44:58 PM
Don't worry man. I mo'd today but using youtube could be still seen as p and cheating. No nudity or p but still gave in. Back on the horse now. I'm going to immediately forget about it. That was my longest streak so I'm pleased. I'll do another streak now and hopefully I'll go longer. Porn is gone !!! But these other things youtube instagram etc are just as bad. I wont fool myself about that.

That's how a good relapse progresses. You've eliminated P now you need to eliminate "softer substitutes" and you should be fine. I am at this point. There hasn't been any deliberate searching for P or substitutes for 5 weeks. But I've masturbated 3 times already. I want to go on hard mode because I've seen it in action, I like it.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: BlueHeronFan on August 25, 2019, 06:18:58 PM
Sorry to hear about the cold, I hope you're feeling better!

I know a lot of people have a lot of different opinions about MO, and I also know that I'm probably on the more extreme no-MO side of things. For me, at least, I think MO would be a relapse for me (because I really think M is part of my addiction). But that's not how everyone sees it.

I think if you want to tackle hardmode, that's a great idea. I have seen a few guys here really struggle to get going when they were only focused on P, but they seem to hit their stride when they really quit P, M, and O. So I'm here to support you if you want to go that way.

As for resetting your counter, I think that's up to you. It might be a good opportunity to do it. You're not really resetting because you crashed hard but because you're starting something new. That seems more like a hopeful reset than a discouraging one. And you can have it in the back of your head that you have 30 some odd days in the bank, but today is Day 1 of hardmode. That might also help psychologically.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Arthur2 on August 25, 2019, 06:37:41 PM
I think if you just MO, you are eventually gonna forget about the P images in your head, which would be great, but eventually your imagination is gonna take over and replace porn.
I started M just to having seen a few images and a few movie scenes when i was a kid but then it escalated slowly into more and more porn, and when i didn' t have porn i had my imagination doing it instead.
If you MO you still have that easy reward that gets you addicted and create an unhealthy pathway of lazy reward system in your brain, and eventually the coolidge effect if gonna lead you to PMO.

Congratulations for your streak, but i think now you should definitly go hard mode to the max you can, until you get married.

And i am glad to see you have that mindset of even if you MO'd, you still consider that you have made tremendous accomplishments throughout this journey, which is true.

Be blessed. We benefit from the advice found here.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Arthur2 on August 25, 2019, 06:47:15 PM
You are the one that showed me tough love when i edged on day 12 (that i consider now as a relapse), when you said to me that edging was the worst and that actually edging was relapsing because we were addicted to the dopamine hit of the edging. You were right and i needed to hear that.

Now let me show you tough love : i believe MO always leads to PMO eventually because of the coolidge effect, so you should go all the way and do hard mode.
And besides that, MO will rip you of the bemefits of semen preservation and rebooting.
Because remember : when you MO you still wire your brain to get an easy reward and thus you become a lazy person.

Don' t get me wrong : MO is far less detrimental than PMO, and going from daily PMO to weekly MO is a TREMENDOUS ACHIEVEMENT but to experience real and complete revival you should go all the way.

Be strong Lero the hero.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Non-Dual Adventurer on August 25, 2019, 09:55:33 PM
Day 35

I MO-ed again today (without P) for the third time since I started this streak. I could not control my hard urges created by a strong, painful round of anxiety. Although, after MO-ing for the first time on day 21, I decided to go hard mode, I haven't been able to implement this the right way. The first two times, I MO-ed after drinking. Usually this made me PMO but I decided to only MO instead, without watching P and without fantasizing about it. It's still a big victory. After MO-ing for the second time because of alcohol (day 32 so only 3 days ago), I made the decision to stay away from drinking, which I did, only to MO again today with no alcohol involved. Now, I don't know how much those MO sessions have dragged me back, how much gains I've lost because of them. Does this affect the rebooting? I know it creates the chaser effect (I fucking hate this), but I've had everything under control. Each time the MO session took about 10 minutes or less and I didn't follow it with a binge, I didn't do it in consecutive days either. I wonder if I should reset my counter and start from day 1 hard mode (because I haven't been doing hard mode so far).

I would say this is okay if you didn't fantasise about P. The only danger with MO imo is with the chaser effect you mention. If you can just move on and observe the chaser it won't be a problem, but just remain vigilant as you are being. I'd say it absolutely doesn't affect your streak as long as you don't make excuses to make it the norm in your recovery, as that can so easily lead back to P or P substitutes. :)
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Free-man on August 26, 2019, 03:30:06 AM
I understand the anxiety that has lead Lero to MO has been the main problem.
We must create a thread 'Anxiety management' in porn addiction section. It's a very important and deep topic to discuss and maybe it could help many of us to struggle with it and dopamine.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 26, 2019, 01:26:48 PM
Day 1 Hard Mode // Day 36 since last PMO

First of all I want to thank everyone for the replies. They made me think. I see your point.

I've decided to start the "Hard Mode" today. It means also eliminating MO. I've MO-ed 3 times in 35 days, not the end of the world, but I like hard mode more. It's my preference, my choice etc. I will also eliminate alcohol (because it makes me relapse) and limit the screen time to only when I really need it (no wasting time browsing or playing video games). It's an experiment. I want to see how I feel after a while.

Peace. Thanks for the support.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Arthur2 on August 26, 2019, 03:10:00 PM
Truth.

MO is not the end of the world, and the number of days doesn' t matter too much, but having the right mindset of improving your life overall is what really matters.

I am glad you decided to go on hard mode. But really you were already kinda like on hard mode, you just relapsed 3 times in 36 days of hard mode which is great.

I wish people had the same mindset of thinking that a MO or a relapse is not so big of a deal as long as you keep having the mindset of the winner who wants to improve.

Keep going.
Choke that demon to death.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Arthur2 on August 26, 2019, 03:21:28 PM
And stopping drinking al-not-cool is a great idea also.

I suggest you implement new activities in you life to replace all the time that you are not gonna play video games and drink anymore.

Ask yourself : "What did i always deep down wanted to start doing or learning but i was too lazy or shy ?"

Hard mode should give you the strenght to do those things.

For me it was boxing and learning to play music.

Also reading books is great.

Maybe take a second job or lessons to learn a new trade. A second language. Overtime at your job. Volunteering to help others. Exploring around your neighbourhood. Art.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Non-Dual Adventurer on August 26, 2019, 03:52:57 PM
Good for you man. Maybe you could write 'Day 1 Hard Mode - 36 Days since I last looked at P' or something to keep you motivated. I know it would motivate me to be able to write that many days since last relapse, to remind myself how far I've come. Just a thought.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Jay2019 on August 26, 2019, 04:01:40 PM
I understand the anxiety that has lead Lero to MO has been the main problem.
We must create a thread 'Anxiety management' in porn addiction section. It's a very important and deep topic to discuss and maybe it could help many of us to struggle with it and dopamine.

Great idea.  Anxiety management is really important in this process, and in life in general.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: BlueHeronFan on August 26, 2019, 08:51:02 PM
So I haven't relapsed. I haven't PMO-ed nor watched P for 36 days. It's just "day 1" for Hard Mode. But, the number of days doesn't even matter to me. How I feel it's what matters. My goal is to reach that day when I see changes in how I feel, no matter the number of days.

This is right on. Counting days is a useful diagnostic tool, but it can't be the whole point. It is possible to get a streak going without actually making progress. (Just look at some of the accidental long streaks I've had in the past years. They were nice, but I wasn't learning anything about myself or actually fighting the urges or dopamine cycle.) For me, counting days helps me to see where I've come from, but I really try to stay focused on the fact that today is the only day that really matters.

Good luck with the experiment! In my experience, hard mode is the way to go!
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 27, 2019, 12:04:08 AM
Truth.

MO is not the end of the world, and the number of days doesn' t matter too much, but having the right mindset of improving your life overall is what really matters.

I am glad you decided to go on hard mode. But really you were already kinda like on hard mode, you just relapsed 3 times in 36 days of hard mode which is great.

I wish people had the same mindset of thinking that a MO or a relapse is not so big of a deal as long as you keep having the mindset of the winner who wants to improve.

Keep going.
Choke that demon to death.

Thanks, man. Yeah, I did hard mode for 21 days and then I MO-ed once after drinking alcohol. It really pushed me. In the past, I've relapsed many times like that, drinking and then PMO-ing or PMO-ing the next morning.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 27, 2019, 12:05:48 AM
And stopping drinking al-not-cool is a great idea also.

I suggest you implement new activities in you life to replace all the time that you are not gonna play video games and drink anymore.

Ask yourself : "What did i always deep down wanted to start doing or learning but i was too lazy or shy ?"

Hard mode should give you the strenght to do those things.

For me it was boxing and learning to play music.

Also reading books is great.

Maybe take a second job or lessons to learn a new trade. A second language. Overtime at your job. Volunteering to help others. Exploring around your neighbourhood. Art.

That's right, man. Hard mode should give you more energy and mood and this is a good time to start doing something. There are things that I want to do but they are not really possible right now. I need a few months.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 27, 2019, 12:07:15 AM
Good for you man. Maybe you could write 'Day 1 Hard Mode - 36 Days since I last looked at P' or something to keep you motivated. I know it would motivate me to be able to write that many days since last relapse, to remind myself how far I've come. Just a thought.

That's a good idea, actually.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 27, 2019, 12:09:06 AM
I understand the anxiety that has lead Lero to MO has been the main problem.
We must create a thread 'Anxiety management' in porn addiction section. It's a very important and deep topic to discuss and maybe it could help many of us to struggle with it and dopamine.

Great idea.  Anxiety management is really important in this process, and in life in general.

I'm kind of lost with this fucking anxiety but I'm working on it. I don't really know what's the cause. Right now I'm trying to eliminate things from my life that are known to create anxiety. I think it might have a genetic element too, I've member of my family with anxiety problems.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 27, 2019, 12:10:14 AM
This is right on. Counting days is a useful diagnostic tool, but it can't be the whole point. It is possible to get a streak going without actually making progress. (Just look at some of the accidental long streaks I've had in the past years. They were nice, but I wasn't learning anything about myself or actually fighting the urges or dopamine cycle.) For me, counting days helps me to see where I've come from, but I really try to stay focused on the fact that today is the only day that really matters.

Good luck with the experiment! In my experience, hard mode is the way to go!

That's right, man. "Accidental" streaks mean nothing if you return to your P routine after that for the next several months. When you really make this work, that's the shit.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 27, 2019, 11:42:21 AM
Day 2 Hard Mode // Day 37 since I watched P last time

Second day with flatline symptoms since the MO on Sunday. I felt low in energy and unmotivated do to anything. I had an anxiety attack in the first part of the day and it made me feel... yeah, completely like trash. Later, it got a little better.

I won't repeat the stupid mistake to MO. It sent me again into this flatline, just like back then when I MO-ed on day 21. That time it lasted for 4 days, I hope it goes away soon because I don't like it.

I am practicing hard mode now. I had 21 days of hard mode during this streak and I absolutely loved how I felt. I saw that I was capable of feeling way better than my usual daily self. Then I made the stupid mistake to drink (which I knew it made me relapse but I didn't get rid of it) which created a big craving for PMO but I managed to save myself and only MO. However, it killed my "hard mode self". I haven't drunk anything for 5 days now. Anyway, on Sunday I MO-ed without alcohol so... I really need to build more self-control. I mean, I have been controlling myself so well to stay away from P but I can't stay away from MO? Come on, man, you can do better!

Peace. Don't fuck up.   

Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 27, 2019, 11:47:23 AM
Motivational song - > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm72DPJCX58

We either drown or swim.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Non-Dual Adventurer on August 27, 2019, 11:58:22 AM
Yo, awesome that you have decided to go no MO but the way you write makes me worry a little that you might get perfectionistic about this recovery. Remember, a hard-mode no MO recovery is the ideal. Human beings can't always be perfect. I'm not saying you can't do it, because I absolutely believe that you can, but I wouldn't put too much focus on the whole 'hard-mode' concept because it could lead to putting a lot of pressure on yourself and thus, a full-blown relapse. Basically, what I'm saying is, be wary of rigid, idealistic thinking. It has led me to relapse before.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 27, 2019, 12:33:41 PM
Yo, awesome that you have decided to go no MO but the way you write makes me worry a little that you might get perfectionistic about this recovery. Remember, a hard-mode no MO recovery is the ideal. Human beings can't always be perfect. I'm not saying you can't do it, because I absolutely believe that you can, but I wouldn't put too much focus on the whole 'hard-mode' concept because it could lead to putting a lot of pressure on yourself and thus, a full-blown relapse. Basically, what I'm saying is, be wary of rigid, idealistic thinking. It has led me to relapse before.

Thanks, man. Thanks for the advice. Only time will tell. I hope it won't be this bad.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Non-Dual Adventurer on August 27, 2019, 12:42:50 PM
Thanks, man. Thanks for the advice. Only time will tell. I hope it won't be this bad.

Just be aware of this and you'll be golden, dude.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Pete McVries on August 27, 2019, 12:55:01 PM
May you do well in your effort to reboot hardmode. And give yourself a pat on the back for staying away from porn for more than a month. Honestly, that is exceptional! Keep adjusting the variables in your life if necessary. There is always something to improve but also don't overwhelm yourself with too many tasks.

Consistency over intensity as always :)
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 27, 2019, 01:01:51 PM
Thanks, man. Thanks for the advice. Only time will tell. I hope it won't be this bad.

Just be aware of this and you'll be golden, dude.

Thanks, man. I'm taking everything into consideration. I had a 20 days hard mode streak, this time I want to get to this first and then we'll see. I know that I can. I didn't have to do anything crazy last time to make it work. I didn't get there by chance either.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 27, 2019, 01:04:24 PM
May you do well in your effort to reboot hardmode. And give yourself a pat on the back for staying away from porn for more than a month. Honestly, that is exceptional! Keep adjusting the variables in your life if necessary. There is always something to improve but also don't overwhelm yourself with too many tasks.

Consistency over intensity as always :)

Thanks, man. Yeah, last time when I searched for P deliberately was 37 days ago. But I MO-ed 3 times. I want to go hard mode. At least for 21 days again because the first 21 days of this current streak were hard mode. I mean, I should say 20, because I MO-ed on day 21. So anyway, 20 days hard mode and I didn't have to do anything insane to get there and it wasn't an accident either. At least 21 days first. Things might change.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 28, 2019, 06:39:43 AM
Day 38

Day 3 Hard Mode. I feel a little better than yesterday but anxiety persists. Urges have returned so did the fantasies and flashbacks.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Do or die on August 28, 2019, 06:49:49 AM
You doing it good lero. Just learn something about how to manage anexity.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Free-man on August 28, 2019, 06:56:58 AM
You're doing great Lero
rip off your anxiety. When urges come for you, try to do something like active exercise, take a walk, cooking or whatever to calm the anxiety
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: squid on August 28, 2019, 07:44:04 AM
38 days Lero that's awesome!
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 28, 2019, 10:05:18 AM
You doing it good lero. Just learn something about how to manage anexity.

Thanks, man.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 28, 2019, 10:05:38 AM
You're doing great Lero
rip off your anxiety. When urges come for you, try to do something like active exercise, take a walk, cooking or whatever to calm the anxiety

Thanks for advice.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 28, 2019, 10:06:45 AM
38 days Lero that's awesome!

Almost 40 days since I watched P last time. It surprises even me. Now I want to follow the hard mode. I am waiting for the day when it gives me back my energy.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: BlueHeronFan on August 28, 2019, 06:44:49 PM
Just keep at the continuing growth and improvement!

Even when things get difficult, just remember how much more difficult they have been in the past. The longer you go without P, the steadier things will get.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 29, 2019, 03:34:26 AM
Just keep at the continuing growth and improvement!

Even when things get difficult, just remember how much more difficult they have been in the past. The longer you go without P, the steadier things will get.

Thanks, man.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 29, 2019, 06:00:43 AM
Day 39

It's hard. The craving and flashbacks are a torture. My abstinence is like a tightrope and I am this close from falling down. The anxiety today has been constant. P promises me a relief. It says: "If you stopped being so stubborn, you would realize I am the relief for your withdrawal suffering and anxiety." I've been feeling depressed lately. Sometimes the loneliness hits hard.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Arthur2 on August 29, 2019, 06:09:09 AM
You know that every moment of withdrawal pain and craving is getting you closer to your goal.


Keep being stubborn !


It is amazing to me the amount of cravings that you undergo. Maybe i'll have the same when i get to a streak like yours.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 29, 2019, 06:15:32 AM
You know that every moment of withdrawal pain and craving is getting you closer to your goal.


Keep being stubborn !


It is amazing to me the amount of cravings that you undergo. Maybe i'll have the same when i get to a streak like yours.

Thanks, man. I don't even know when this craving will go away. It's my biggest torment. I don't know if it's the same for everybody, but this is my situation. Everyday I'm this close because of the craving. Imagine you are in a cell and you can see a table with barbecue but there is no way for you to reach it. After a few days of starvation, the smell and the sight of it will drive you absolutely nuts. You will feel like you want to hit your head against the wall. This is what the combination of craving and flashbacks do to me.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Arthur2 on August 29, 2019, 06:17:03 AM
We are connected at the same time !

(Arthur waves at Lero)
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 29, 2019, 06:20:15 AM
We are connected at the same time !

(Arthur waves at Lero)

I don't understand.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Arthur2 on August 29, 2019, 06:24:19 AM
Quote
Imagine you are in a cell and you can see a table with barbecue but there is no way for you to reach it

Except in our case we can reach it anytime we want.

That is why our fight may be the toughest of all fights a man can achieve.

I like to remind me that because i like fighting and i like accomplishing new difficult things.

Think about this : Basically the whole world is following after pleasure. First of all, most men in western world probably have a problem with porn. They may not be as heavily addicted as us but they probably Watch it. Then even the people who don't watch pron are still following after quick pleasure like food, theatre, video games, Facebook, TV and so on. Other drugs. Everybody is high on something.

Man, if you quit what is likely to be the most difficult addiction to quit (remember : that steak is in front of you and you can reach it whenever you want), it will train you to become such a FORMIDABLE BADAAAAASS !
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Arthur2 on August 29, 2019, 06:25:06 AM
Haha, i just mean we are on the forum and writting at the same time : right now !
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 29, 2019, 06:29:32 AM
Except in our case we can reach it anytime we want.

That is why our fight may be the toughest of all fights a man can achieve.

I like to remind me that because i like fighting and i like accomplishing new difficult things.

Think about this : Basically the whole world is following after pleasure. First of all, most men in western world probably have a problem with porn. They may not be as heavily addicted as us but they probably Watch it. Then even the people who don't watch pron are still following after quick pleasure like food, theatre, video games, Facebook, TV and so on. Other drugs. Everybody is high on something.

Man, if you quit what is likely to be the most difficult addiction to quit (remember : that steak is in front of you and you can reach it whenever you want), it will train you to become such a FORMIDABLE BADAAAAASS !

Yes, I agree with this. In my case, the barbecue is right there and I am fighting to restrain myself from touching it. It's even worse. You know, it's true what you're saying. We navigate this life stimulating ourselves with something (video games, Internet, social media, porn, movies, tv series etc.). Staying away from them makes people feel "low". Sooner or later they come back to them. P is very very difficult to quit because of its nature (the part of the brain). Despise knowing that it's poison, it promises a relief (that it's not even relief) and the brain interprets it like an urgency, like it will really help you. I'm tired of this shit. I thought that after almost 40 days, I could finally breathe but...
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 29, 2019, 06:29:59 AM
Haha, i just mean we are on the forum and writting at the same time : right now !

Ah okay. Sure. It's like a chatroom. Actually, maybe a chatroom would've been a great idea for this place, I don't know.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Non-Dual Adventurer on August 29, 2019, 12:10:24 PM
I love the barbecue analogy that Arthur started and you expanded on. This is exactly how I feel right now. Granted, I'm only on day 8 but I'm gonna take a leaf out of your book and be a stubborn mo'fo, even if it drives me temporarily crazy! I just need this bullshit out of my life and there can't be any going back because it literally takes away my zest and passion for living every day. Sure, not watching P has temporarily made it worse, but it's so important to remember that it takes months to undo years of being completely, hopelessly hooked on this drug. It's okay. We're in this together. Our suffering resonates with others within this community and spurs them on to be strong. You are strong, Lero, and I look up to you. I know you can do it.
I know you have the potential to go much further than your addicted brain is telling you you can, and inspire thousands with your wisdom.

If you're struggling with loneliness, maybe this will help:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfKbJA7HKkY

I feel Russell Brand talks quite eloquently about these things, man.

I hope you feel better soon, mate. If it's any consolation, I'm here feeling totally shitty, too, so you're not alone. I think I'll listen to some music now and cry a bit.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 29, 2019, 12:36:45 PM
I love the barbecue analogy that Arthur started and you expanded on. This is exactly how I feel right now. Granted, I'm only on day 8 but I'm gonna take a leaf out of your book and be a stubborn mo'fo, even if it drives me temporarily crazy! I just need this bullshit out of my life and there can't be any going back because it literally takes away my zest and passion for living every day. Sure, not watching P has temporarily made it worse, but it's so important to remember that it takes months to undo years of being completely, hopelessly hooked on this drug. It's okay. We're in this together. Our suffering resonates with others within this community and spurs them on to be strong. You are strong, Lero, and I look up to you. I know you can do it.
I know you have the potential to go much further than your addicted brain is telling you you can, and inspire thousands with your wisdom.

If you're struggling with loneliness, maybe this will help:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfKbJA7HKkY

I feel Russell Brand talks quite eloquently about these things, man.

I hope you feel better soon, mate. If it's any consolation, I'm here feeling totally shitty, too, so you're not alone. I think I'll listen to some music now and cry a bit.

Thanks, man. I appreciate the words. I'm with you.

This cold turkey approach to quitting this addiction has sure driven me fucking crazy. I swear. Sometimes I want to hit my head against the wall. Sometimes I can't take it anymore. Sometimes I scream in my room out of frustration, probably someone will make arrangements for me to relax a little bit in a mental hospital. I don't want that.

If anything has saved me everyday was the memory of better times and also the memory of the shit times. I know about days when I felt fucking great. P abstinence had made that possible. I want that back. Also, all the memories of absolutely garbage days drowned in P, I hate that so much. I don't want to go back to that. I don't want to be the apathetic, aloof, exhausted, unmotivated, "I don't care whether I'm dead or alive" zombie. Like you, I want this shit out of my life so much and I want to feel balanced, I want to wake up and be left alone by the fucking craving and urges.

You see, some time ago I felt really good. Then I MO-ed and killed it. It sent me into a flatline-like state that it's been going on for 4 fucking days. Feeling lifeless. No motivation, no energy, anxiety overwhelmed me.... Yeah, feeling completely like fucking garbage. I've been even feeling depressed. I stopped for a second and thought: "You know, I felt good, where the fuck is that? What the fuck is going on? Okay, I know what's going on: I fucking masturbated!" I guess my brain is really hurt. It needs total rest or it won't work. I masturbated without P and I felt exactly how I used to feel after a PMO day. Exactly the same. Hence the hard mode that I'm trying to implement. Ironically, I had 20 days of hard mode and I felt better than I'd felt in my whole fucking life. Then I MO-ed. And....... Yeah. It killed everything. There is no other way. I need complete rest. No masturbation included. I should've felt better after 39 days of course. I fucked with masturbation. I don't know about other people but it doesn't work for me. I can't even masturbate normally without P. I shouldn't be feeling like shit but I do. For a while, I'm sure. If I don't relapse, things will get a tone better. However, it's hard as fuck. I am this close everyday. Everyday is tightrope. I am 1 inch away from falling all the way down. It's really hard. I've definitely seen what it meant to be an addict. Now I really know. It's  been very hard. You know, sometimes I looked at some rock star who died because of heroin and thought: "Why the fuck didn't he go to rehab, for Christ's sake?" But then I read about him and saw that he actually went to rehab. Why did he keep being an addict? Now I know. I swear to God now I know. I know why people can't stop being addicts. I don't know what it takes. Mental toughness to endure the pain? Is this what we need? Some people won't make it, I'm sad to say it. Everyday I wonder if I will be another one who will be a P addict no more. Everyday, "I will" and "I won't" alternate in my mind. Everyday I feel like I will be free and then 1 hour later I feel like I just want to say "fuck it" and let this fucking stupid idiotic addiction rip me apart and do whatever it fucking wants with me. Sometimes I want to live in denial. Will I make it? I don't even know. Right now I hope I will. But it's so hard, sometimes I doubt it. Anyway, stay strong, man. Try everything, to the maximum. Only when we exhaust everything, then we could say we are defeated.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 29, 2019, 03:05:25 PM
Remember that P promises pleasure and soothing, but it's a short time trap that brings misery on long term. P abstinence feels like shit for a while but it leads to how we actually want to feel. Postpone the relapse. Say something like: "Okay, I will relapse on day 32. Why? Because I want to make it to day 31 and write '1 month' in my journal because it sounds cool." And on day 32 find something else. Like: "I'm so close to day 40, wait a little bit."
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Lero on August 29, 2019, 03:13:48 PM
After the "high" goes away, only misery is left.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: BlueHeronFan on August 29, 2019, 05:20:17 PM
You see, some time ago I felt really good. Then I MO-ed and killed it.

Sorry you're hitting some difficult days and intense cravings. But I think you hit something there: P or not, your brain got its fix and went back on the dopamine roller coaster. As awful as this is probably feeling, you are learning from it and getting stronger.  Don't forget that.

I have been in your shoes, and I remember those overpowering urges. Just decide to get through one more day and push ahead. It's awful and miserable, but it won't last forever. It will get better as you get further and further from your last "fix."

Keep at it, man! You're inspiring a bunch of people and winning a better life for yourself!
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Arthur2 on August 29, 2019, 06:35:11 PM
Yes absolutly.

Like blueheronfan said, you are inspiring people, including me.

Remember when you told me that edging was the worst that could happen to us ? You got that from your long experience.

You told me that at a time appropriate when i really needed it and i think it will help me go very far.

Also now i know that i need to put in place that "starving the addicted brain" method that you were talking about.

And more advice that i got from you.

I come here daily for advice.

I feel bad for you that you go through such hardship. I really think that my own recovery is gonna be more easy than yours.

You really need to implement working out. I highly recommend boxing, to use all that free time and energy that you now have. And moreover, boxing helps with anxiety.

Also writting this journal surely helps.

Because your brain needs to replace all the rewards from porn by something else. It will make the recovery easier.

Stay at it. We will do it together.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Arthur2 on August 29, 2019, 06:40:39 PM
Or just take a second job if you don' t know what else to do !
Go work at mc do at night or whatever. Do uber eats.

Work like a beast for a while and you ll get more money, and less time to fool around, until you feel like you are feeling more in control. It is not about carrer or making money here but being very busy for a while until you get passed that time period of hard urges.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Non-Dual Adventurer on August 29, 2019, 07:58:26 PM
What are your hobbies at the moment, man? Arthur mentioned boxing and I think that's a really good idea. For me, it's Kung Fu. I love training in a room with other people. From it I get a sense of community, a great work out, self-discipline, and a life skill that may one day literally save mine or someone else's life. Why not look into martial arts if you haven't already? I never get back from a Kung Fu session feeling shit. The more I do it the better I feel. :)
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Arthur2 on August 29, 2019, 09:02:47 PM
Yes absolutly ! The more i do, the better i feel. The exact opposite of PMO.
Title: Re: I am not going back to P
Post by: Free-man on August 30, 2019, 01:35:58 PM
Watch this video. It's not the end of the world mate!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxDStOiWUDc&list=PLE_vQWWxgaiH1Xcri6_WJDZnC_XezkyAO&index=3&frags=pl%2Cwn (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxDStOiWUDc&list=PLE_vQWWxgaiH1Xcri6_WJDZnC_XezkyAO&index=3&frags=pl%2Cwn)
Don't give up and continue.

Title: Re: Hang in there, withdrawal won't last forever
Post by: Free-man on August 30, 2019, 03:15:51 PM
Today I learnt one thing: we have to build other habits instead thinking in the 90 days or the great streak we have…becuase we will suffer a lot.
Title: Re: Now I have everything I need
Post by: Arthur2 on August 30, 2019, 07:22:26 PM
Man, i saw earlier in the day that there was a ton of things to read on your journal and i was looking forward to take a moment aside this night and sit down and read it all but it is all gone !  :'(

 ;D ;D

I hope you are doing well and keeping us updated.
Title: Re: Now I have everything I need
Post by: Arthur2 on August 30, 2019, 07:29:08 PM
Quote
Today I learnt one thing: we have to build other habits instead thinking in the 90 days or the great streak we have…becuase we will suffer a lot

Yes absolutly. I think the main reason why my streak seems to be much easier than some of the other guys is that i have so much stuff going on in social life, exercise, travel, reading etc.
In fact i already find reward in other aspects of life and this is a key to succes.

I think rebooters should ask themselves what do i want to accomplish but i never had the energy ? Not it is the time to do it.

And if they have no hobbies or quest, well just take a second job and make more money.
Title: Re: Alive but not living. Mediocre because of P
Post by: Lero on August 31, 2019, 04:23:38 AM
Day 1

If I am not disciplined enough, I won't make it.
Title: Re: Alive but not living. Mediocre because of P
Post by: Free-man on August 31, 2019, 06:30:14 AM
Drink is one of your trigger or cue. You have to fix this first.
Destroy all the alcohol there's in your house and when the cravings starts go out and do some exercise or just walk (you will replace a bad habit for a good one). This will calm you a lot and don't led to porn. You will feel good.
Title: Re: Alive but not living. Mediocre because of P
Post by: Lero on August 31, 2019, 07:04:20 AM
Drink is one of your trigger or cue. You have to fix this first.
Destroy all the alcohol there's in your house and when the cravings starts go out and do some exercise or just walk (you will replace a bad habit for a good one). This will calm you a lot and don't led to porn. You will feel good.

That's right.
Title: Re: Alive but not living. Mediocre because of P
Post by: Free-man on August 31, 2019, 07:26:14 AM
If you watched the video I sent you yesterday. You've seen that it doesn't matter if you relapsed.
Don't feel bad, relapses happens, everyone relapse soon or later.
We have to change our behaviours when the cravings and urges (dopamine calling) comes
Title: Re: Alive but not living. Mediocre because of P
Post by: Arthur2 on August 31, 2019, 07:41:48 AM
I am sorry to hear that, man.
Thank you for being honest and sharing with us your difficulties.
Stay at it. What matters is that you stay in the fight.

Don' t be like Ender who apparently quit after a relapse.
And i am worrying about him because he was doing so well and he relapsed and stopped writting here.

I am very sorry man. I hope you keep your motivation to go on. It is crucial to succeed here. It is the battle for our lives.
Title: Re: Alive but not living. Mediocre because of P
Post by: Free-man on August 31, 2019, 08:05:31 AM
Don't worry Lero. Relapses happens. don't feel bad for it.
We're here to support when you'll feel ready to start again in hard mode or not.
Title: Re: Alive but not living. Mediocre because of P
Post by: Lero on August 31, 2019, 08:31:49 AM
I am sorry to hear that, man.
Thank you for being honest and sharing with us your difficulties.
Stay at it. What matters is that you stay in the fight.

Don' t be like Ender who apparently quit after a relapse.
And i am worrying about him because he was doing so well and he relapsed and stopped writting here.

I am very sorry man. I hope you keep your motivation to go on. It is crucial to succeed here. It is the battle for our lives.

Thanks, man. I am not devastated. I went 40 days without P. For someone who kept relapsing every 4 days, this was already a lot. I had everything under control and I could've gone longer but I made a mistake which, if I don't repeat it again, it won't sabotage me next time (getting drunk was the mistake and it's ironic because I knew I would have success if I stayed away from this but I didn't). Anyway, this time I'm doing hard mode. I don't have big plans like 90 days or whatever, that sounds scary. 1 week first. I won't disappear of something.
Title: Re: Alive but not living. Mediocre because of P
Post by: Lero on August 31, 2019, 08:33:31 AM
Don't worry Lero. Relapses happens. don't feel bad for it.
We're here to support when you'll feel ready to start again in hard mode or not.

40 days without P was already a lot for someone who relapsed weekly. There's no problem. I will get back to those number of days because I know how. There is only one thing that I need to avoid cause this made me relapse this time and then I should be okay.
Title: Re: Alive but not living. Mediocre because of P.
Post by: Lero on August 31, 2019, 09:31:01 AM
    I woke up in the morning with hard anxiety. I was freaking out. Alcohol and PMO have the talent to do this to me, elevate my anxiety two levels up. I had made a mistake. I knew I had to stay away from drinking but I didn't. I knew it would eventually sabotage me and it did. I stayed up late, numbed by alcohol, binging P, feeling no fear about what I was doing. "I don't give a fuck! This is the fun of the night!" my mind seemed to tell me. There was no remorse in doing this to myself. There was no self-control.
    In the morning I was sober and I realized everything. I guess I could say it is frustrating to lose 40 clean days because of something that I should've avoided. I have been drinking maybe a little too much. Does this mean I have problems with alcohol? Am I in denial about it? I played a video game walkthrough on Youtube but lying down and starring at the screen absentminded. The chaser effect was killing me. The anxiety was painful. I had no appetite. Alcohol usually creates stomach problems for me. I am not good at patience. One thing that went through my head was: "40 days again until I get back to my streak? This is fucking a lot!"
    I know I didn't stay away from P for 40 days by mistake. I know how I did it. It was possible by eliminating one of my last two obstacles: Edging. Probably if I eliminated the second one, drinking, I would go longer without poison.
    It's easy to get sad about the relapse but I must not forget that three months ago I was bitching about not being able to go more than four days without a binge. Forty days without P has been a big victory. From four to forty days, I should not say this is nothing.
Title: Re: Alive but not living. Mediocre because of P.
Post by: Arthur2 on August 31, 2019, 09:50:42 AM
It is good to read that you have an awesome winner mindset.

 :D

I agree that you should not set a goal too big, because it will be too tough on your willpower. One day at a time is a great principle.

Also setting little goals like reading for 10 minutes in the morning, or going for a walk in a park after work and before dinner, all easy and healthy habits that you can implement in your life to help you with your fight.

This is the point of the video that non-dual was telling you to watch, and it is a great video.
It is a part of an awesome series about overcoming an addiction and implementing good habits, which goes hand in hand.

I think this is what non-dual has figured out and it is said in one of the videos on that "improvement pill" channel, that it is impossible to erase a bad habit, just like it is impossible to forget how to ride a bike. But instead we can and need to replace the addiction which is a bad habit by a good habit (or in our case it will probably take a whole set of new good habits).

And yes your 40 days streak is tremendous. It is a great achievement and nobody can take it away from your.
You (and i) have already gone very far on this journey.
Let us all of us keep moving forward together.

 8)
Title: Re: Alive but not living. Mediocre because of P.
Post by: Lero on August 31, 2019, 09:55:08 AM
It is good to read that you have an awesome winner mindset.

 :D

I agree that you should not set a goal too big, because it will be too tough on your willpower. One day at a time is a great principle.

Also setting little goals like reading for 10 minutes in the morning, or going for a walk in a park after work and before dinner, all easy and healthy habits that you can implement in your life to help you with your fight.

This is the point of the video that non-dual was telling you to watch, and it is a great video.
It is a part of an awesome series about overcoming an addiction and implementing good habits, which goes hand in hand.

I think this is what non-dual has figured out and it is said in one of the videos on that "improvement pill" channel, that it is impossible to erase a bad habit, just like it is impossible to forget how to ride a bike. But instead we can and need to replace the addiction which is a bad habit by a good habit (or in our case it will probably take a whole set of new good habits).

And yes your 40 days streak is tremendous. It is a great achievement and nobody can take it away from your.
You (and i) have already gone very far on this journey.
Let us all of us keep moving forward together.

 8)

Thanks, man. Thanks for the constant support. It's a big help.
Title: Re: Alive but not living. Mediocre because of P.
Post by: Lero on August 31, 2019, 03:17:04 PM
I will eliminate the last thing and there will be nothing to sabotage me anymore. I thought I had it but there was one last problem. Actually, I knew about it but I was too arrogant to think I could handle it. Now I know. Now I will be humble and treat everything seriously, even the smallest things. Like this I will get back to 1 month in no time.
Title: Re: Alive but not living. Mediocre because of P.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on August 31, 2019, 05:57:06 PM
I will eliminate the last thing and there will be nothing to sabotage me anymore. I thought I had it but there was one last problem. Actually, I knew about it but I was too arrogant to think I could handle it. Now I know. Now I will be humble and treat everything seriously, even the smallest things. Like this I will get back to 1 month in no time.

That's the way to do it. Stay humble, stay careful. The only day that really matters is today, and  you have proven to yourself 40 times that you can get through one day without PMO. Just get right back to doing that for one more day.

This is all part of the process. You've already taken a big leap forward, and you have learned about a mistake that you will never make again. You're moving forward with more knowledge and more resolve.

Rooting for you all the way!
Title: Re: Alive but not living. Mediocre because of P.
Post by: Lero on September 01, 2019, 03:33:02 AM
That's the way to do it. Stay humble, stay careful. The only day that really matters is today, and  you have proven to yourself 40 times that you can get through one day without PMO. Just get right back to doing that for one more day.

This is all part of the process. You've already taken a big leap forward, and you have learned about a mistake that you will never make again. You're moving forward with more knowledge and more resolve.

Rooting for you all the way!

Yes.
Title: Re: Numb, unmotivated, tired, aloof, apathetic because of P
Post by: Lero on September 01, 2019, 06:48:01 AM
Day 2

What's your goal in quitting P? You could even write it somewhere if it helps. You could re-read it every day for motivation.

All of us here know that P is an addiction (or we should know). I don't know how other people are but, in my case, "I want to quit P because it's an addiction" is too abstract. It never motivates me enough. Why do I really want to quit P? During my last streak, after 3 weeks I liked how I felt. I had a lot of energy, things that used to bother the hell out of me now I tolerated them easily. My social anxiety was very low (or maybe even gone). I didn't have brain fog, my mind worked like a rocket, I found words easily and I liked how I spoke and conducted myself. Overall, I functioned so much better. I want to go back to that. This is my goal. Everyday I think about the goal. When things get tough, I will say: "All the suffering is for the goal! I am not suffering for nothing." Otherwise suffering everyday from withdrawal like a dog will make me feel like I go nowhere. But the goal is my motivation. What's your goal? Whatever your goal is, that's why you should suffer. You should suffer because that will make you reach the goal. It's the "sacrifice" for the goal. Maybe P has made some of us feel like we don't want to work hard. But you see, the best things in life come after hard work. We have to accept that. Quitting P asks for a hard work because the reward is great. Thus, the prize will not come easily. It will come after hard work, suffering, sleepless nights, hard urges and everything else. Who told you you couldn't do it?

Title: Re: I am done with this fucking P! This is the last streak.
Post by: Arthur2 on September 01, 2019, 10:06:27 AM
Do it bro !

I hate PMO ! I pray that God gives me and you a good old healthy righteous hatred for PMO.
Title: Re: I am done with this fucking P! This is the last streak.
Post by: Lero on September 01, 2019, 10:07:32 AM
Do it bro !

I hate PMO ! I pray that God gives me and you a good old healthy righteous hatred for PMO.

Yeah bro! I'm fucking done with this shit. For this goal, I will "sacrifice" everything that I know it sabotages me and do it.
Title: Re: I am done with this fucking P! This is the last streak.
Post by: Lero on September 01, 2019, 11:27:58 AM
In life, there is never "suffering for nothing". It always has a purpose.
Title: Re: I am done with this fucking P! This is the last streak.
Post by: Lero on September 01, 2019, 11:38:04 AM
Some other "pleasures" of yours could sabotage your P rebooting. Is P quitting your no. 1 priority? What do you want to give up: Your "pleasures" or P recovery? Chances are that you can't have both. "Okay, what pleasures are you talking about?" Well, drinking, drugs, benzos, Internet browsing etc. Think about it, you know about them. If you can handle them and P recovery at the same time, great! Do it. But some people can't. It's not common though. I don't know anybody. Probably they are freaks.
Title: Re: I am done with this fucking P! This is the last streak.
Post by: squid on September 01, 2019, 12:10:09 PM
It's true Lero, pmo isn't an isolated phenomena.  It's the nasty ugly spider in the center of a web of hiding, escapism, and fear.  Remove it but also realize that the web needs to go as well.
Title: Re: I am done with this fucking P! This is the last streak.
Post by: Lero on September 01, 2019, 12:11:20 PM
It's true Lero, pmo isn't an isolated phenomena.  It's the nasty ugly spider in the center of a web of hiding, escapism, and fear.  Remove it but also realize that the web needs to go as well.

You won't be able to remove PMO without further removing the "side effects".
Title: Re: I am done with this fucking P! This is the last streak.
Post by: Do or die on September 01, 2019, 03:27:06 PM
I am also at day 2
Title: Re: I am done with this fucking P! This is the last streak.
Post by: BlueHeronFan on September 01, 2019, 09:06:27 PM
I think you're exactly right to be thinking more seriously about why you want to quit beyond the abstract "it's an addiction" reason.

I think that is one of the things that really helped me to dig down deep in myself and find the strength to really commit this time around. For a long time I knew I should quit and even wanted to quit, but I also always wanted to hang onto those little pleasures and substitutes.

For me, I realized that this addiction is totally incompatible with the future I want, especially with the kind of family life I want to have someday. I sort of just imagined how awful it would be for me to have like one of my future kids walk in on me watching porn. I never want that to happen, and I realized that now is the time to fix it because the future will be too late.

Keep on going!
Title: Re: I am done with this fucking P! This is the last streak.
Post by: Lero on September 02, 2019, 05:02:08 AM
Day 3

I am frustrated. The fucking dry spell. And I am not done with P yet. Hence the dry spell. It's a vicious circle that I walk.
Title: Re: I am done with this fucking P! This is the last streak.
Post by: Arthur2 on September 02, 2019, 08:34:58 AM
Man i am sorry.

It will sound repetitive but you need to implement new good habits in your life otherwise i am afraid that your reboot is gonna be a constant struggle.

Have you seen the tamed course on the youtube channel improvement pill ?
I think it is episode 11 that i wanted you to listen to.
Title: Re: I am done with this fucking P! This is the last streak.
Post by: Free-man on September 02, 2019, 10:13:28 AM
Lero, stay strong man.
Hard mode is hard and though you relapsed you have still the determination to quit.
As I said to Arthur2, I highly recommend this video: https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/videos/your-brain-on-porn-how-internet-porn-affects-the-brain-2015/ (https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/videos/your-brain-on-porn-how-internet-porn-affects-the-brain-2015/)
Here Gary Wilson says that each person lives the withdrawal different so the reboot can be harder to some people than others.
Maybe you're living the worst moments now at the begining and others (like me) will have these cravings and urges later after the flatline or whatever I'm living after 45 days.
But I can asure that in my first relapse (55 days) last year came by night after imsomnia and uncontrollable shaking nerves on my body, so I know that the worst will come.
Every day I go our to walk 1 h or so sometimes I run what I can, and I know this is relieves the cravings or thoughts, I do that to calm the stress and anxiety and to face the day the best I can.
Don't feel bad or frustrated.
Track the first 90 days in a notebook and strike the days you're completing everyday. As you're doing here in your diary, write at it's side how are your feelings every day. This could help you to track and win every day.
Don't give up and keep strong
Cheers!
Title: Re: I am done with this fucking P! This is the last streak.
Post by: Lero on September 02, 2019, 10:35:16 AM
I just "hate" how disciplined I need to be in order to make it work. Because I've never really been a disciplined person, or at least not "so disciplined" but there is no other way. The moment I threw the discipline out the window was the moment when I invited P back in my life. P stays with me when I am not disciplined. I guess I have to push through this and build discipline.
Title: Re: I am done with this fucking P! This is the last streak.
Post by: Lero on September 02, 2019, 11:09:50 AM
This never really used to cross my mind but I guess I was living in denial. Maybe I really do have problems with alcohol. Not big but I don't think anymore that it's not an issue. How many times have I said that I was going to quit drinking because it made me relapse only to drink again and lose streaks. Maybe I should stop fucking around. I don't think I could do this with alcohol around.
Title: Re: I am done with this fucking P! This is the last streak.
Post by: Lero on September 02, 2019, 11:36:34 AM
I really need the hard mode, man. Here is why. This is a "Then vs Now", "Then" being "3 weeks hard mode" and "Now" being the aftermath of that PMO binge. I am writting this for motivation. This is my goal. This is why I want to go on with the hard mode.

1) My mind worked like a rocket. The words came to me like I was a dictionary VS I am struggling to find words to type this. Brain fog;
2) I felt like I had a "notebook in my head". I knew everything I had to do, I didn't miss steps, I could organize everything the right way VS I literally feel like I need to make a list for some simple fucking things because I feel overwhelmed;
3) I had a tone of energy and a sense of wellbeing. Depression and anxiety didn't exist anymore VS I feel drained - Tired, apathetic, aloof, depressed, unmotivated, anxiety is painful;
4) Things didn't bother me that much VS The same things bother me like crazy;
5) There were little nuances in the way I conduced myself. My body language, my voice, my mood, my concentration - All of them were way better VS I look again like I am tired of life. Like "What's wrong, man?";

Maybe other things too. The idea is clear: The PMO binge fucked me up. It resetted me "back to factory settings" after working for so long to "upgrade myself". Even vanilla MO could do this to me. It's like my brain is too fried. It literally screams at me: "Yo, idiot, can't you see that I need a rest? Would you stop those fucking PMO and MO things until I could get better?" Except the addicted brain, of course, that doesn't care how my life is. "Can't you see you're feeling like shit, man? Take your PMO medication."

I cannot fuck around anymore. I need hard mode like water. I'm writting this cause PMO crossed my mind today. I said: "I better write a motivational for myself and read it. I must not forget what I want to do hard mode."
Title: Re: I am done with this fucking P! This is the last streak.
Post by: Free-man on September 02, 2019, 12:49:15 PM
I hardly support you man!

I'll write you the withdrawal symptoms of P according to the Gary Wilson video I said before:

I have all that
Title: Re: I am done with this fucking P! This is the last streak.
Post by: Lero on September 02, 2019, 12:49:56 PM
I hardly support you man!

I'll write you the withdrawal symptoms of P according to the Gary Wilson video I said before:
  • Anxiety
  • Restlessness
  • Irritability
  • Insomnia
  • Fatigue
  • Poor concentration
  • Depression
  • Mood swings
  • Social isolation
  • Headaches
  • Severe loss of libido ("the flatline")

I have all that

Yeah, man. Me too.
Title: Re: I am done with this fucking P! This is the last streak.
Post by: Free-man on September 02, 2019, 02:14:16 PM
This link is a thread created by a member of yourbrainrebalanced.com. It's amazingly true:
https://yourbrainrebalanced.com/forum/index.php?threads/the-top-3-fatal-mistakes-rebooters-make.5734/ (https://yourbrainrebalanced.com/forum/index.php?threads/the-top-3-fatal-mistakes-rebooters-make.5734/)
Title: Re: I am done with this fucking P! This is the last streak.
Post by: Lero on September 02, 2019, 02:31:10 PM
This link is a thread created by a member of yourbrainrebalanced.com. It's amazingly true:
https://yourbrainrebalanced.com/forum/index.php?threads/the-top-3-fatal-mistakes-rebooters-make.5734/ (https://yourbrainrebalanced.com/forum/index.php?threads/the-top-3-fatal-mistakes-rebooters-make.5734/)

I know it.
Title: Re: Attempt 2
Post by: Arthur2 on September 02, 2019, 03:23:34 PM
Great article. Thank you free man.

Quote :

"There is this damaging belief in the forum that success is measured by how many straight days you go without porn."
Title: Re: Attempt 2
Post by: Lero on September 02, 2019, 03:25:56 PM
Great article. Thank you free man.

Quote :

"There is this damaging belief in the forum that success is measured by how many straight days you go without porn."

Yes. It made perfect sense. I would say that by avoiding binges, you do a way better job. Imagine, if you relapse twice in 2 streak of 30 days each, this is only 2 PMOs in 60 days. I can't say the same cause I binged. But I will get to 60 days.
Title: Re: Attempt 2
Post by: Arthur2 on September 02, 2019, 04:05:32 PM
yes man you will get to 60 and even beyond.

Let us not beat ourselves every time we relapse.
The important thing is to not binge, but rather get back on track and having the right mindset.

Really i feel like my last fap 11 day ago has not really broken a streak because i fapped only once. I just got up and continued the journey.

Title: Re: Attempt 2
Post by: Lero on September 02, 2019, 04:14:18 PM
yes man you will get to 60 and even beyond.

Let us not beat ourselves every time we relapse.
The important thing is to not binge, but rather get back on track and having the right mindset.

Really i feel like my last fap 11 day ago has not really broken a streak because i fapped only once. I just got up and continued the journey.

Sure, man, but I binged.
Title: Re: Attempt 2
Post by: Arthur2 on September 02, 2019, 04:19:12 PM
Quote
I just "hate" how disciplined I need to be in order to make it work. Because I've never really been a disciplined person, or at least not "so disciplined" but there is no other way. The moment I threw the discipline out the window was the moment when I invited P back in my life. P stays with me when I am not disciplined. I guess I have to push through this and build discipline

Oh, how perfectly i relate to that !

We are brothers on that one.

But don' t worry, once you start implementing discipline, you will enjoy your new you and be glad you did it.

But you have to do it the right way :

If you start too hard, it will demand too much willpower and you will quit.

The way to go is just to start doing something easy, every day (this is crucial in building a new habit).

It has to be easy and also fun and rewarding. You have to enjoy it. If it is a pain it will require too much willpower.

Example :

Let' s say you want to start exercize but it has never really been your thing.
Well, just start taking a walk in the park next to you house every day for 20 minutes at a certain time of the day. For example after work.
The cue is : after work i go out for a relax walk in nature.
The reward is : i get to have sunlight on me an produce vitamine D, and be in better shape. Also i get to breathe fresh air.

There is a ton of rewards that we can think about !!

It won' t be difficult on you, and you will enjoy it. In a few weeks or months it will be a habit. And after a few weeks it might evolve into a full blown work out.
But it has to remain easy or else you won' t keep doing it.

Consistency over intensity.

And also it will give you a weapon against urges. Every time an urge occur, you know that you can enjoy a walk (or a full blown work out) instead.

You can do it. Try it and you will see one day you will love that discipline that you once hated.

And i am not saying that i am a disciplined man but verily i love the fact that i am more in control than i used to be.
Title: Re: Attempt 2
Post by: Arthur2 on September 02, 2019, 04:22:01 PM
Quote
Sure, man, but I binged

Well, the way to move on is still always the same.

It is quite simple actually. There is only one direction : forward.
Title: Re: Attempt 2
Post by: Lero on September 02, 2019, 04:25:41 PM
Quote
Sure, man, but I binged

Well, the way to move on is still always the same.

It is quite simple actually. There is only one direction : forward.

I'm done with binging, I'm done with lack of discipline.
Title: Re: Attempt 2
Post by: Lero on September 02, 2019, 04:58:08 PM
I've seen on Reddit nofap that they have things like "Abstain August". Going the whole month without a relapse. I like this. Given the fact that I relapsed at the end of August, I am going to do "September starvation". Starve the fucking addiction. Hard mode: No Peeking, No Edging, No MO, No PMO, absolutely free.
Title: Re: Attempt 2
Post by: BlueHeronFan on September 02, 2019, 05:54:04 PM
You've got this!

I understand the frustration and the anger that comes with a binge. Just remember to not be too hard on yourself. You're just a guy who's doing the best he can, even if that doesn't always measure up to your ideals.

As long as you keep trying, as long as you keep learning, you're right where you need to be. Take care of yourself before your brain resorts to porn.

Starvation September sounds like a great idea. Let's do it!
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Arthur2 on September 03, 2019, 07:10:14 AM
Good idea about this september-free.

Same thing for me :

If i could make it through september without edging, that would be awesome.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 03, 2019, 07:49:27 AM
Good idea about this september-free.

Same thing for me :

If i could make it through september without edging, that would be awesome.

Edging is the downfall. You will go far if you stay away from it. Peeking too. I don't have problems with those, I have with drinking because it makes me relapse. My plan is to cut this out of my life for a while at least.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 03, 2019, 01:49:27 PM
Day 4

I've felt like shit since the relapse: Unmotivated, lack of energy...
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Arthur2 on September 03, 2019, 03:15:10 PM
Well, you seem to be motivated enough to continue the streak.

Good job !  :)
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 03, 2019, 03:45:52 PM
Well, you seem to be motivated enough to continue the streak.

Good job !  :)

I feel like shit for even up to a week after relapses  :(
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: BlueHeronFan on September 03, 2019, 05:53:54 PM
It's a bummer to be sure, but it also serves a purpose. The pain of relapse can be a reminder that it isn't worth it. Experience that pain and let it teach you.

And most of all, keep on going!
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Arthur2 on September 03, 2019, 05:59:39 PM
A binge relapse is a shitty thing indeed.  >:(
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Free-man on September 04, 2019, 04:05:06 AM
how do you feel Lero?
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 04, 2019, 04:24:38 AM
how do you feel Lero?

Like shit.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Free-man on September 04, 2019, 04:57:56 AM
You are doing great man!
Shit days comes and go so be patient and don't give up
It's hard but you can overcome this shit and you will
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: achilles heel on September 04, 2019, 05:32:29 AM
Sorry to hear about your relapse, but you've come incredibly far compared to where you've been earlier this year. Even now that you feel like shit you are already 5 days in which would have been a huge success already 2 months ago. This is a marathon and you win if you remain consistent - a single relapse is a setback, but not to 0. As long as you are able to stay disciplined, you will go through the hardest stage again and then analyze what went wrong the last time.

All the best for your journey!  :)
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 04, 2019, 05:37:00 AM
You are doing great man!
Shit days comes and go so be patient and don't give up
It's hard but you can overcome this shit and you will

I know that this phase will go away. But for now I've been feeling like shit for 5 days. I can't say I love it.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 04, 2019, 05:37:52 AM
Sorry to hear about your relapse, but you've come incredibly far compared to where you've been earlier this year. Even now that you feel like shit you are already 5 days in which would have been a huge success already 2 months ago. This is a marathon and you win if you remain consistent - a single relapse is a setback, but not to 0. As long as you are able to stay disciplined, you will go through the hardest stage again and then analyze what went wrong the last time.

All the best for your journey!  :)

I've had many "5 days streaks" in the past. Only if I pass 1 week then I could say it's a success.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: all_in_now on September 04, 2019, 08:55:42 AM
Hey Lero,

Came to your thread to check on you. Your support is part of what pushed me to day 29 today. I’m really glad and admire that you’re still here fighting. It’s taken me years to get to the streaks I’ve been able to achieve lately. It’s been 29 days since I last binged on porn, and man did I feel like shit but I just didn’t give up. You got to do the same brother, you will quit eventually.

What I try remind myself is that if porn was able to satisfy me 29 days ago then I’d be happy right now, and I’m not. Real relationships do satisfy me, reaching my goals satisfy me. Let’s push towards a better life away from this vicious cycle.

Keep pushing man. Looking forward to seeing you get through this.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 04, 2019, 09:00:03 AM
Hey Lero,

Came to your thread to check on you. Your support is part of what pushed me to day 29 today. I’m really glad and admire that you’re still here fighting. It’s taken me years to get to the streaks I’ve been able to achieve lately. It’s been 29 days since I last binged on porn, and man did I feel like shit but I just didn’t give up. You got to do the same brother, you will quit eventually.

What I try remind myself is that if porn was able to satisfy me 29 days ago then I’d be happy right now, and I’m not. Real relationships do satisfy me, reaching my goals satisfy me. Let’s push towards a better life away from this vicious cycle.

Keep pushing man. Looking forward to seeing you get through this.

Thanks, man. It means a lot to me. I'm glad I've motivated you to reach 29 days. I like how you said this: "What I try remind myself is that if porn was able to satisfy me 29 days ago then I’d be happy right now, and I’m not." This is so fucking true. It can't be truer than that. I've been feeling like shit in those 5 days, man. I hate this shit. I'm frustrated that I've lost a 40 days streak because of a stupid mistake that I was supposed to eliminate. I knew it was coming but I did nothing about it. I did it to myself. Nothing made me relapse but me. There was no trigger, nothing. Only my mistake.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: sammyboy74 on September 04, 2019, 09:53:27 AM
Sorry to hear about your relapse Lero. Easy to think that losing a 40-day streak is a failure - I'd be upset too. 40 days is pretty damn impressive though. Granted, I just started my recovery journey but if I went on a 40-day streak I'd be proud as hell.

I think it's more helpful sometimes to think of your progress cumulatively. Not necessarily how many days in a row you've abstained but rather how many total days you've gone without. For me, a lot of the negative feelings I experience after a relapse are psychosomatic, not chemical. The main source of my shitty feelings is just me telling myself I failed and how I now have to climb back up the mountain of recovery to get back to where I was. Not saying this is why you've been feeling down, but it may be worth some thought.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 04, 2019, 12:20:11 PM
Easy to think that losing a 40-day streak is a failure - I'd be upset too. 40 days is pretty damn impressive though. Granted, I just started my recovery journey but if I went on a 40-day streak I'd be proud as hell.

I was very pissed off about it because I should've been more disciplined. I knew that drinking used to make me relapse but what did I do about it? I let it make me lose 40 days with a binge. I was pissed off because of the length of the streak. I didn't want to lose a streak that long and I would've understood if it had been because of seeing a trigger for example, but it came after a mistake that I shouldn't have done. That's why I was upset about it. I don't know if I could get back there. We'll see. I'm depressed nowadays. Frustrated about my dry spell. The loneliness has become noticeable again. Those things complicate the situation. The reboot doesn't go well when the mind doesn't work well either.

Quote
I think it's more helpful sometimes to think of your progress cumulatively. Not necessarily how many days in a row you've abstained but rather how many total days you've gone without. For me, a lot of the negative feelings I experience after a relapse are psychosomatic, not chemical. The main source of my shitty feelings is just me telling myself I failed and how I now have to climb back up the mountain of recovery to get back to where I was. Not saying this is why you've been feeling down, but it may be worth some thought.

I understand this. I don't even know, man. It's complicated. I'm depressed because of many things: Dry spell, loneliness, relapse, my life situation right now that got complicated because of some idiots. Theoretically, I should feel better in a few days but we'll see about this too.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 04, 2019, 12:23:25 PM
Day 5

First checkpoint is 1 week.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: mattdes on September 04, 2019, 05:22:42 PM
I was so tempted to have a drink today but no way. I want to get past these 2 weeks at the very least and i remembered you have the same problem. It's just pulling at me from both sides. Hey pmo and you'll feel better... No way... Ok well at least have a beer and that will make you feel more relaxed.... No way because that's the domino effect. It's like a little devil's voice in your head.

Well done on the latest streak. You are still going strong. That relapse was nothing. It doesn't send you back to the beginning. You are still on track and even more determined to beat this thing now. Keep going strong pal!
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Arthur2 on September 04, 2019, 06:29:12 PM
Quote
Your support is part of what pushed me to day 29 today. I’m really glad and admire that you’re still here fighting. It’s taken me years to get to the streaks I’ve been able to achieve lately. It’s

Hello Lero.

I agree with that brother.

Journals and your journal in particular have given me so much good advice and support so quickly that i feel like a bowling bowl that has been launched for a strike.

I would never have reached that level of confidence about beating my addiction of it werent for you. Not only you of course, but you took a big part in it.
(You don' t take ALL the credit  ;)  )

And it is a lot because i understood and started apply the advice found here.

Yourself have that strenght in you.
You know those things.
I have been praying for you (i am just realizing it as i am writting this).

Cheers.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Do or die on September 04, 2019, 10:59:19 PM
Yes you are right. I am also recovering myself better than past. You all supported me in my every situation. Today i am again @day 1
 . but i know one day i will be rebooted.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 05, 2019, 03:26:11 AM
I was so tempted to have a drink today but no way. I want to get past these 2 weeks at the very least and i remembered you have the same problem. It's just pulling at me from both sides. Hey pmo and you'll feel better... No way... Ok well at least have a beer and that will make you feel more relaxed.... No way because that's the domino effect. It's like a little devil's voice in your head.

Well done on the latest streak. You are still going strong. That relapse was nothing. It doesn't send you back to the beginning. You are still on track and even more determined to beat this thing now. Keep going strong pal!

Thanks, bro. Yeah, don't drink, don't do anything that you know it will make you relapse.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 05, 2019, 03:28:17 AM
Quote
Your support is part of what pushed me to day 29 today. I’m really glad and admire that you’re still here fighting. It’s taken me years to get to the streaks I’ve been able to achieve lately. It’s

Hello Lero.

I agree with that brother.

Journals and your journal in particular have given me so much good advice and support so quickly that i feel like a bowling bowl that has been launched for a strike.

I would never have reached that level of confidence about beating my addiction of it werent for you. Not only you of course, but you took a big part in it.
(You don' t take ALL the credit  ;)  )

And it is a lot because i understood and started apply the advice found here.

Yourself have that strenght in you.
You know those things.
I have been praying for you (i am just realizing it as i am writting this).

Cheers.

Thanks, man. I appreciate that. But nowadays I've been depressed so probably this has become obvious because I haven't been as active around here. It's not only the relapse, man, you have to understand. Yeah, the relapse upset me but there are some things that are not right in my life nowadays. It's a mix of everything. When I had a longer streak without porn, those things didn't bother me that much but now after the binge, they came over me.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 05, 2019, 06:48:17 AM
Day 6
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Free-man on September 05, 2019, 07:43:49 AM
How do you feel today Lero?

You are progressing very good in hard mode man,
almost a week.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 05, 2019, 08:07:31 AM
How do you feel today Lero?

You are progressing very good in hard mode man,
almost a week.

The worst week in a long time. I feel "exhausted", physically and mentally. I drag myself around. It's been very hard to start and follow the current streak.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Arthur2 on September 05, 2019, 08:15:11 AM
All that tells us that a binge has long-lasting detrimental effects.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 05, 2019, 08:26:54 AM
All that tells us that a binge has long-lasting detrimental effects.

It does. Staying away from P made me tolerate things better, therefore tolerating all this bullshit, that I'm dealing with, better. Once I binged, my tolerance for this was gone hence I'm in this shit. It's very hard. I will either relapse again or make it and feel better. I have no idea what will happen.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 05, 2019, 09:12:43 AM
If you are reading this right now, have you been on "yourbrainonporn.com" and read the "start here" page? If the answer is no, stop everything right now and go read it. You will learn a tone by reading that. It's in the middle of the front page, in a blue square.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Free-man on September 05, 2019, 09:31:50 AM
stay strong man
keep your mind busy, don't just avoid p, because if you're thinking how to avoid it, you finally fall again relapsing.
You''ve got a nice streak now , you're doing great!
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 05, 2019, 09:54:03 AM
stay strong man
keep your mind busy, don't just avoid p, because if you're thinking how to avoid it, you finally fall again relapsing.
You''ve got a nice streak now , you're doing great!

Yeah, I gotta keep my mind in the right place and ignore what my body makes me feel like. When urges take control of ourselves, only the determination, the motivation remain and this is how you know you have to keep going. If you start this journey without a firm determination, vision, goal, you will get lost eventually. P does changes to the brain and it affects the battle between "long term goal" and "short time pleasure". If you "don't do anything", the "short time pleasure" will always win. That's where the goal, the determination, the bad relapse memories should come into play.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Free-man on September 05, 2019, 10:07:25 AM
I'm agree
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 05, 2019, 10:09:33 AM
Today was another shit day for me (mentally and physically) but I will say this: Porn is like cyanide. Would you swallow cyanide regularly? If you felt good, would you swallow cyanide? If you felt bad, would you? I'm sure the answer is "No." So who told you that you need to watch porn when you feel like shit? No matter how you feel "No cyanide" rule still stands.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 05, 2019, 10:18:26 AM
Never forget why you want to quit porn. Say it right now: "I want to quit porn because..." When things get very hard (urges, craving, mood swings, irritability etc.), never forget your why.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Free-man on September 05, 2019, 10:22:34 AM
You're right, good point!
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: BlueHeronFan on September 05, 2019, 06:24:34 PM
The worst week in a long time. I feel "exhausted", physically and mentally. I drag myself around. It's been very hard to start and follow the current streak.

I'm sorry to hear it, man. I don't know if it helps at all, but you're not alone in this. The last several months have been some of the hardest for me that I can remember. Is it withdrawals? Maybe, but it could also just be a perfect storm of things that have gone wrong for me. For most of the year, I have been sad, nervous, angry, and lonely. Just yesterday I was trying to remember the last time that I truly felt at peace. I think it's been a while.

Sometimes in the last few months, I've had to just lie down because it feels like holding myself up takes too much effort. I sort of thought it was just me, but maybe it's part of this recovery process.

Either way, just remember that you're not in this alone. We're cheering you on each day!
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Free-man on September 06, 2019, 04:17:59 AM
Yeah, all of this takes too much effort, patience and a lot of time.
I guess we used to have a fast reward when we PMO and when we're quitting we want a reward soon but I think that it takes a lot of time for us.
Don't give up and go ahead!
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Arthur2 on September 06, 2019, 08:44:23 AM
Yes, you have a nice little streak now !

And especially because it has been a hard one as you descrbe it.

Good luck, man.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 06, 2019, 10:21:12 AM
Day 1

I relapsed last night. Why? Because I didn't have the "Quitting P is no. 1 priority" mentality. I didn't do everything that it took to quit P. I've repeated the same mistake. If I don't start doing this the right way, I will return back to my P routine. I mean, after 40 days without P, I am back at PMO-ing weekly? I know what I have to do. I have to be serious from now on.

Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Arthur2 on September 06, 2019, 11:44:28 AM
Aouch !

I was dreading that because i wasnt seeing an update from you.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: all_in_now on September 06, 2019, 02:22:16 PM
Ah damn. Well, it takes multiple times to quit for nearly all. Porn is very addictive. I know I’ve relapsed well over 50 times before getting my big streaks. Just don’t give up on the journey as a whole.

Good luck. Feel free to message me if you’re having trouble. Would be good to communicate more with people on this forum.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Free-man on September 06, 2019, 02:28:49 PM
Start again when you feel ready
We'll be here to support you as always :)
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: BlueHeronFan on September 06, 2019, 05:52:56 PM
Day 1

I relapsed last night. Why? Because I didn't have the "Quitting P is no. 1 priority" mentality. I didn't do everything that it took to quit P. I've repeated the same mistake. If I don't start doing this the right way, I will return back to my P routine. I mean, after 40 days without P, I am back at PMO-ing weekly? I know what I have to do. I have to be serious from now on.

Sorry to hear it. But recognizing a pattern is an important thing. If you can see a weekly pattern closing in, just focus on getting through a week. For me, I was relapsing roughly every month, so I just set a goal to get through one month...and then one more...

Set those smaller goals and stick to them. You don't get to 90 days by going 90 days. I think you get there by going 10 days 9 times.

Back at it, and keep going!
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Do or die on September 06, 2019, 09:41:47 PM
Lero failure is just a part of our journey. You need rebooting as first priority. But you also need to have sone new good habit to replace pmo habit. Do daily meditation. It Help you to be happy without any reason. And if you are happy why you choose pmo to be happy. So do meditation.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 07, 2019, 08:59:44 AM
Day 2

You know, when I am too cocky to believe that rules don't apply to me, I fall right on my head. But it's good. I needed this. And it will happen until I finally wake up and start doing this the right way. If not, I will suffer over and over again, in a loop, when I could do the things right from the start and spare myself.

I know that drinking makes me relapse. It's happened more than a couple of times to be an exception. And what should I do? Obviously stop drinking. But what am I really doing? Not stopping. A forty days streak gone because of drinking. "I can handle it, bro! No worries. I will drink but tell myself that I don't want to relapse and nothing will happen." I drank one to many and BAM! Just like that, my great streak was over. What should've this taught me? "How did you relapse the last time? Don't relapse the same this time." And what did I do? I started drinking again on day 6 and relapsed one more time in the same way. Did I tell you the definition of insanity? How could you expect to quit P by repeating the same mistake, thinking that next time it will be different? It makes me laugh.

Thursday night I was drunk and I started watching P with no remorse, no regret, no fear nothing. The alcohol was doing its job, making me fearless. I jerked off to P violently for the next 4-5 hours, up to 2 AM until I observed that my dick was hurting and the head was red. I was literally doing a number of myself, hurting my dick in the process and... I didn't care. I PMO-ed two more times after that.

The hardest day is the next day when I realize what I've done. Hard anxiety, feeling like shit, regret, sadness, crying and all that. But I really need this. I need this until it reminds me that I should take this rebooting seriously. Everything it takes. From now on, if I stay away from mistakes, I will make it, if not, I will be back here crying and saying "Day 1". The brain has a nice way of making you "forget" the relapse's regret when pleasure is the "prize". If you don't pay attention and really remember it, you will remember it only after the binge. There are 3 things you have to keep in mind: How it feels after a relapse, how it feels after a considerable period of hard mode and the goal, the reason why you really want to quit. And from here on, whatever it takes, that's what you do.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 07, 2019, 09:34:35 AM
I should never forget the misery in the past. But I do. I keep relapsing because I don't remember what misery I used to go through. Some days ago I found a notebook that used to be my diary. I can't believe what things I wrote there. This is fucking rock bottom and I still don't want to give up one simple thing (drinking) so I could stop feeling like shit?

Here is a line from one of the entries in my notebook diary:

"I want to grab the permanent marker, draw a dotted line on my wrist and write 'Cut Here'."

This is after I had discussed a binge. I PMO-ed 8 times from morning to late at night.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Free-man on September 07, 2019, 10:00:12 AM
Don't punish yourself Lero.
First of all (and you know) You can do it because you did 40 days streak before in hard mode.
And the best advice I can tell you is that clean your house of alcohol NOW. That is your trigger and your perdition. One addition leads you to other.
Maybe the anxiety that you have is cause of mix of both additions. And maybe quitting one of them helps you to quit the other one.
Clean your house of alcohol and clean your computer of porn and install blockers and 'burn' the password.
Without all of it, I think it's going to be very very dificult to quit both additions. Those are my thoughts.

Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 07, 2019, 10:10:01 AM
Don't punish yourself Lero.
First of all (and you know) You can do it because you did 40 days streak before in hard mode.
And the best advice I can tell you is that clean your house of alcohol NOW. That is your trigger and your perdition. One addition leads you to other.
Maybe the anxiety that you have is cause of mix of both additions. And maybe quitting one of them helps you to quit the other one.
Clean your house of alcohol and clean your computer of porn and install blockers and 'burn' the password.
Without all of it, I think it's going to be very very dificult to quit both additions. Those are my thoughts.

You're right, man. Of course. No more drinking.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Free-man on September 07, 2019, 10:54:42 AM
Try healthier habits when you stay alone in your house:
When cravings of drink & porn comes…you can:
…I think this ideas would help you to stay away from alcohol and porn

Anyway I think we have to focus in other things to grow and forbid the addictions.
I'm reading this:
https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/tools-for-change-recovery-from-porn-addiction/rebooting-advice-observations-from-successful-rebooters/my-thoughts-on-rebooting-extremely-long-post/ (https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/tools-for-change-recovery-from-porn-addiction/rebooting-advice-observations-from-successful-rebooters/my-thoughts-on-rebooting-extremely-long-post/)
It's very interesting and I think the guy is right. –Could be is for I'm sick in this moment and the week has been too long– but Today is my 50 day in hard mode and the only thing I made is complete abstinence and I'm doing exercise when I'm not sick. but the guy said that we won't achieve recovery just with abstinency we have to focus in growing and do other things to forbid porn don't just avoid it.

So…
First I would destroy all the alcohol and install blockers in mobile phone and computer. It's essential
Second…to replace these habits…replace them with healthier habbits. Take a cofee and make future plans and goals to change all.

Keep strong man!
Your determination is key!
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 07, 2019, 03:39:07 PM
I need to get back to my usual state of mind and do this the right way. This is just a phase. After about 3 weeks on hard mode I will be a tank.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 07, 2019, 03:45:31 PM
The waiting is killing me. I've never been good at patience. Until the necessary number of days when I will feel good, I will have to wait and this pisses me off. But it's good. Another reminder that I shouldn't go back. You don't like to wait, say a month until you feel better, then don't go back to day 1.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 07, 2019, 03:54:11 PM
Hard Mode is the best way to do it. This is day 2 hard mode, only hard mode, no masturbation, no peeking, no edging, nothing. In about 3 weeks I should feel good (I did last time). I mean, I should and I hope I will.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Arthur2 on September 07, 2019, 04:00:19 PM
Quote
"I want to grab the permanent marker, draw a dotted line on my wrist and write 'Cut Here'."

Again, i totally relate.

I had this thought that i would be better off maimed than PMO ing.

When i was at my lowest point.

And i am not good at patience too.

That is why you should not just wait, lile free man said : we need to implement good habits so that we don t just wait for the addiction to go away, but we actually fight it and make it go away by new habits.

Besides that thought of cutting off my own hand, sometimes i thought that i needed to become a slave and work all the time and not have acces to any image or any time alone, at least for long enough until my brain reboots.
But i can only rely on myself to create such a discipline on me. The past two weeks when i was on hard mode i felt so good and strong because i was doing so much social stuff and exercize and reading and music.

And little by little, i add new things in my schedule to keep me busy, until i literally should have no time for wandering in my thinking and let a thought grow into a craving grow into an urge.

Stay strong.

Your last relapse made me sad. I want you to succeed.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 07, 2019, 04:06:14 PM
Arthur, I know what you're saying. I've found my notebook. That was rock bottom right there. I read that and had this feeling like: "Man, I guess it's a good thing that it exists only here in this notebook because if I wrote this on reboot nation... Shit." You don't wanna know what rock bottom looks like for me. But anyway, I came to reboot nation with different mindset. I am not that anymore. Maybe sometimes for a few days. I mean I've had a couple of bad weeks I guess. However, I don't want to go back to misery, man. I am so tired of this shit. I will make this streak work one way or another. Still the truth is that time away from PMO and maybe even MO (hard mode I mean) will get me to where I want to be. And I don't want you to get mad or anything but I really hear you when you're talking about good habits and all that. You've said it a few times already. I'm working on it.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Arthur2 on September 07, 2019, 04:09:05 PM
Alright man i get what you are saying.

 :-X

 ;)
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 07, 2019, 04:13:54 PM
Alright man i get what you are saying.

 :-X

 ;)

There are some things I want to do but I can't right now. I won't go too much into details because I don't like to. But as soon as I will be able to do those things I will. For now I'm doing what I can. And no, this is not why I relapse. I relapse because I drink.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: BlueHeronFan on September 07, 2019, 06:06:22 PM
I need to get back to my usual state of mind and do this the right way. This is just a phase. After about 3 weeks on hard mode I will be a tank.

That's right, just get right back to it and stay strong!

But be careful: 3 weeks on hard mode is not a ticket to becoming invincible unless you make the deliberate decision each day to be a tank. Even a few months into hard mode I still had a couple of strong triggers knock me down. In the end, you will only be as invincible as you choose to be. (And I know you've got that fire, so keep it burning!)
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 08, 2019, 05:09:45 AM
That's right, just get right back to it and stay strong!

But be careful: 3 weeks on hard mode is not a ticket to becoming invincible unless you make the deliberate decision each day to be a tank. Even a few months into hard mode I still had a couple of strong triggers knock me down. In the end, you will only be as invincible as you choose to be. (And I know you've got that fire, so keep it burning!)

Ah, maybe it sounded the wrong way. I mean, the way I felt last time after 3 weeks was like a rocket. I'd never had that level of energy, tolerance for adversity and other things too. I don't mean that I will be invicible after 3 weeks. After 40 days I was bothered by urges still. I mean, nowadays I've been feeling pretty low. Last time after 3 weeks I really felt good and I hope that this time it will be the same. I hope that this is how much I need to wait to get the first round of good times.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 08, 2019, 05:10:42 AM
Day 3

I will never go back to day 1 because I fucking hate to wait until I get the momentum. I should've had 50 days by now. FUCK!
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Free-man on September 08, 2019, 11:29:12 AM
Yeah Lero, but forgive that number and focus in your 3 days clean, live every day has a change with the determination that you are cleaning your mind of shit and you're destroying the monster.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Arthur2 on September 08, 2019, 06:09:01 PM
yea, i think what free-man is saying is to consider that you already fap much less on average than you used to.
So you are already going somewhere with the journey, even though the counter gets reset.
You are going somewhere.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: BlueHeronFan on September 08, 2019, 08:26:12 PM
Like everyone is saying, the counter is just a number. What's awesome is your commitment to keep trying and keep posting. You won't fail if you keep on trying!
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: mattdes on September 09, 2019, 02:37:26 AM
Dont worry about counters pal. You are doing great! Much better than I can manage. Too much shit going on in my head i suppose. I have to get back to the meditation tomorrow. We'll both succeed in the end dont worry.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 09, 2019, 06:14:11 AM
Day 4

Thanks everyone for the replies.

Yes, I guess I was frustrated for losing such a long streak (for me). But it's true that in ~50 days I PMO-ed less than 2 months ago. I don't know how much I used to PMO in a month but probably double or tripple. What I need to do is lower the number of PMOs and this could be accomplished by avoiding binges and trying to get longer streaks without PMO (avoiding the usual routine every 4 days). Does this make sense? This is something that I was doing in the beginning when I came to this forum but then I forgot about it.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 09, 2019, 12:50:10 PM
The idea is this: Life or no life, why the fuck should I self-medicate with P? Depression, anxiety, boredom, loneliness etc. They exist because this is how life goes. Why should P have any part in this? P doesn't heal shit. Life is still there. Am I alright with how my life is now? No. Do I feel sad about it? Yes, for now, I have plans to get my life where I want it to be, but of course I can't help feeling a little down about it. I don't plan to have this going on for decades of course. But still, the rule still stands: No fucking P! If I don't feel alright about my life, I must do something about it, not run to P. If I can't do something about my life right now I have to accept that I need to wait a little bit until it becomes possible, but not run to P. Accepting my emotions because they are the reality. This is my life. And P doesn't have any part in it. No matter how hard things are, I won't use any P.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Free-man on September 09, 2019, 01:18:39 PM
well said Lero!
We have to learn to face all those problems without use porn, alcohol, drugs… to avoid them. It's essential to learn how to do it.
Porn is not the way…nevermore!
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Do or die on September 09, 2019, 09:42:00 PM
Lero i am also have same story. I did it 84 days . and fapped at 85th day. I am so happy in that 3 months of reboot. But i fapped . you are right brother. We are expecting to relapse newly. Means every time we have an reason that why i am relapsed. But we don't have reason for why we required so many days to leave a bad thing. Even if that thing is fucking our life.

The thing i learned in my journey is that addiction is start from just one time again and stays till we stop .

I counted my just one time urge relapses. My number is 144 times in 2019.

I just think that what pathways are there which are opposed me 144 times.

So look at your brain its so powerful . if our brain is powerful to maintain this addiction then it is also capable to leave this addiction completely.

I know this time i started is not last time. There are many chance that i relapse this time also. But there are one chance that i rebooted this time .And i am trying for that one probability that is to be rebooted this time.

So you also don't be so hard just decide one thing that you not going to stop trying at any cost. So stop relapsing. Because winning or losing is not important. Participating in rebooting is important.
All the best for your journey.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 10, 2019, 09:16:32 AM
Day 5

I am waiting for that day when I will feel better. I know it's there somewhere. Last time I found it. I've lost a 40 days streak with a binge, I binged again 6 days later and my current streak is only 5 days. It's safe to say that I haven't really been feeling alright. But if I don't try to soothe myself with P and get a longer streak, I should feel way better. What annoys me is that I feel "empty", like I have no emotions. A lack of feeling "human", if this makes any fucking sense. I don't experience the emotions that I want to experience. Hopefully this will also get better when my streak gets longer because it feels really fucking strange. I can't stand how strange this emptiness feels.

Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Free-man on September 10, 2019, 10:33:26 AM
Don't worry Lero, it's the damn flatline!

Emptiness and lack of many things include libido are the symptoms of the flatline. It would be better soon.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 10, 2019, 01:26:35 PM
Don't worry Lero, it's the damn flatline!

Emptiness and lack of many things include libido are the symptoms of the flatline. It would be better soon.

Fucking flatline, man!
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Free-man on September 10, 2019, 01:32:55 PM
I'm still with it (53 days)
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 10, 2019, 01:43:19 PM
I'm still with it (53 days)

You mean flatline?
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Free-man on September 10, 2019, 01:57:12 PM
Yep, but every person is totally different. I know this will change and the cravings and urges will be horrible.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 10, 2019, 02:23:37 PM
Yep, but every person is totally different. I know this will change and the cravings and urges will be horrible.

Damn. How many days of flatline?
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Arthur2 on September 10, 2019, 03:03:15 PM
You guys are scaring me.

But anyway, anything is better than P or evem just MO for that matter.
For me it is all the same monster of lust unleashed.
Even the worst flatline is better than being a slave to lust.

Stay strong Lero.
Our first week is soon over.
Then we can get into our second week.
That is cool, isnt it ?
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 10, 2019, 03:09:28 PM
You guys are scaring me.

But anyway, anything is better than P or evem just MO for that matter.
For me it is all the same monster of lust unleashed.
Even the worst flatline is better than being a slave to lust.

Stay strong Lero.
Our first week is soon over.
Then we can get into our second week.
That is cool, isnt it ?

That's why I said "Let's choose 1 week as the first checkpoint" or something like that. It's less scary to say "I want to focus on going 1 week without relapsing" than saying 90 days or whatever. 1 week is close after that I want 10 days, 2 weeks, 20 days etc. Small checkpoints like this.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: squid on September 10, 2019, 03:22:20 PM
Yeah I am back in a flatline myself.  It came back after I MO'd and I'm still in it.  But I'm confident it will fade before too long.  I think binging on videogames and Netflix prolong it as well.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 10, 2019, 03:25:09 PM
Yeah I am back in a flatline myself.  It came back after I MO'd and I'm still in it.  But I'm confident it will fade before too long.  I think binging on videogames and Netflix prolong it as well.

My brain is too fried. I can't even vanilla MO without experiencing flatline. I can definitely feel that things are good only when I do hard mode.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Pete McVries on September 11, 2019, 08:45:25 AM
Hey Lero,

I'm sorry to hear that you have been struggling lately. It seems like you are fighting very hard and that your situation seems to strain you mentally and emotionally a lot. I hope you remain kind to yourself and keep adjusting the variables in your life. Seldomly, do you write about how you spend your days and what you do besides abstaining from PMO to recover. Are you actively doing and pursuing activities that you benefit from mentally/emotionally/physically? Things, you look forward to be doing in your leisure time? Activities that give you a sense of fulfillment?

For me, doing sports was always a great activity. When I went to the gym in the morning, I felt great all day, so that relapsing was out of the equation. When I played football or went to the gym in the evening, relapsing beforehand was not an option because I would have feld bad and after the workout I felt so happy and content that relapsing was also happening. I was also always socially active in the gym or on the pitch and that was great as well, so that helped me a lot.

In one of your recent posts you said, that you were watching some video on youtube in bed and one thing led to another. That is so closely connected the habitual use of porn. Quitting PMO is extremly hard not only because of urges, cravings and the addiction itself but because Porn is always one click away. It's like quitting smoking when a pack of cigarettes is always in arm's reach. The first thing a qutting smoker does, is getting rid of all tobacco, lighters and ash trays, that's only logical isn't it? Us PMO addicts have it way harder. Therefore, you got to try to swing the odds in your favour as much as you can.

You could get rid of your computer and get a brick phone. That's the extreme end of the scale and maybe you don't wanna go there (yet). But you could slowly move towards that extreme end until you find YOUR sweetspot. Use the computer/internet for only 2 hours a days with a specific goal in mind for example. Don't be afraid of boredom when not using the internet anymore so much. You'd be surprised how much time have at hands and how much we can accomplish if only we are able to use it wisely.

Have you heard of the fantastic novel "Momo (https://www.amazon.com/Momo-Puffin-Books-Michael-Ende/dp/0140317538/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=momo+book&qid=1568209389&s=gateway&sr=8-1)"? I urge you to read it. The internet is the ultimate grey man. You will understand it, once you've read it.

Take care!
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Arthur2 on September 11, 2019, 03:39:09 PM
How are you Lero ? Had a good day ?
Me i had urges.
This streak starts tougher than last one.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: BlueHeronFan on September 11, 2019, 06:07:35 PM
One time, I heard someone say that they have given people the advice to just not think about porn for a week. Don't think about using it, don't think about quitting it, just focus on living your life and doing other things.

Hating porn still means that we're pouring all our emotional energy into it. The real victory it probably becoming indifferent to it and being able to say "thanks but no thanks. I have better things to do" and then going and doing those better things.

It's not just about draining porn out of our lives. It's about filling our lives with so many good things that there just isn't room for porn anymore.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: squid on September 11, 2019, 09:27:01 PM
These guys are right Lero.  Here's two quotes that remind me of this principle. 

"You are who you are, you are what you are, because of what has gone into your mind" -Zig Ziglar

"You become what you think about all day long, and those days eventually become your lifetime." - Dr. Wayne Dyer

Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 12, 2019, 05:15:14 AM
How are you Lero ? Had a good day ?
Me i had urges.
This streak starts tougher than last one.

After a binge, annoying urges usually start around day 7 for me, and it's true this time as well.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 12, 2019, 05:15:35 AM
Day 7

1 week hard mode
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Free-man on September 12, 2019, 06:46:27 AM
Congratulations for the first week in hard mode Lero!
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: BlueHeronFan on September 12, 2019, 05:05:50 PM
Great job making it through the week! Keep the focus on making it one more day. You got it!
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 13, 2019, 07:45:14 AM
Congratulations for the first week in hard mode Lero!

Thanks, man.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 13, 2019, 07:45:28 AM
Great job making it through the week! Keep the focus on making it one more day. You got it!

Of course. Thanks.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 13, 2019, 07:46:24 AM
Day 8

Next checkpoint is 10 days.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Arthur2 on September 13, 2019, 10:20:30 AM
Good job man.
To help me get through cravings at night i read the lists of benefits that people report on YBOP.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 13, 2019, 01:07:38 PM
Good job man.
To help me get through cravings at night i read the lists of benefits that people report on YBOP.

Yeah, cravings at night are one of the dangers. Once, I had an episode of insomnia and I was up at 3 in the morning or something. This lack of sleep created some sort of anxiety and this felt like arousal (yourbrainonporn explains why and this is when I understood too what was going on). This arousal that day made me relapse. I watched P on my phone. Another time I woke up after a P dream with uncontrollable urges and stuff.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 13, 2019, 01:14:42 PM
I've had a P dream two days in a row. Both were about me only watching P but deciding not to masturbate and thinking that it wasn't a relapse because of this. I woke up in the morning, in both cases, panicked and saying: "Fuck! I watched P!" and it took me like a minute to finally realize what the fuck was going on. "Fuck, man, it was just a dream. I didn't watch any P." I can't believe this shit. I could swear it was so real.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 13, 2019, 01:37:02 PM
As always, if you don't start, you can't relapse. No peeking leads to no edging which leads to relapse-free. And no edging to flashbacks and fantasies, I forgot to say.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 13, 2019, 02:20:29 PM
You choose to relapse, not the addiction. The addiction tries to make you do it but you have the last move. A relapse starts in your mind before you search for P material.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: BlueHeronFan on September 13, 2019, 05:58:21 PM
You choose to relapse, not the addiction. The addiction tries to make you do it but you have the last move. A relapse starts in your mind before you search for P material.

Really true. On some level, the problem with addiction is that it messes up our self-control. But at the same time, we're the only one responsible for our own recovery. Things have started to change for me as I have quit feeling helpless and really started taking my own ability to fight this seriously. The choice is ours, no matter how far we've gone.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Do or die on September 13, 2019, 11:38:40 PM
You are doing great lero. I am started from today. Please tell me how you fight the urges at night.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 14, 2019, 04:21:28 AM
You are doing great lero. I am started from today. Please tell me how you fight the urges at night.

You don't have to search for P when you have urges, you know.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Arthur2 on September 14, 2019, 04:33:22 AM
Quote
You are doing great lero. I am started from today. Please tell me how you fight the urges at night

Read benefits report on YBOP. Reading lists of benefits keeps my mind out of the urge.

Or you just have to go through the urge. Breathe deeply. Lay on your back and let it come and go.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 14, 2019, 04:56:29 AM
Quote
You are doing great lero. I am started from today. Please tell me how you fight the urges at night

Read benefits report on YBOP. Reading lists of benefits keeps my mind out of the urge.

Or you just have to go through the urge. Breathe deeply. Lay on your back and let it come and go.

Urges are pain. This is the withdrawal and, unfortunately, we will have days that could get quite brutal. Now, sometimes those urges could catch you be surprise and attack you. It could be at 1 AM. You are supposed to sleep cause you wake up at 6 AM but you have a round of crazy urges. What do you do? I'm afraid that you will have to endure it and wait for them to lower their intensity. The addiction tells you that you must search for P material and PMO to relieve the urges but you have to stop to think for a minute a realize that actually you don't have to search for P, you don't have to grab your dick and jerk it, you don't have to do anything. This is the basics of the basics: No matter what happens you stay away from edging/peeking/grabbing your dick. I know, the urges make you feel like you're going crazy. Something like: "Fuck, man! I can't take this anymore! It's killing me! I want to PMO for relief!" I don't know, maybe doing some push up helps? Going to the bathroom to wash your face? Take a cold shower? I've never tried those things late at night but I've had plenty of urges. I didn't do anything and I waited for them to go away and let me sleep. Sometimes I couldn't sleep all night (not because of urges but because I felt like I was plugged into a socket, too much energy, my mind kept talking... Plus bouts of urges of course. But urges shouldn't last for hours on end. They should last minutes and lower their intensity. They re-appear, of course. 
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 14, 2019, 05:20:56 AM
Day 9 (Deny P)

Day "Nine" is Day "Nein" for P.

Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Pete McVries on September 14, 2019, 06:38:15 AM
Der Mann, der den Berg abtrug, war derselbe, der anfing, kleine Steine wegzutragen. Auf geht's! :)
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 14, 2019, 10:10:27 AM
Der Mann, der den Berg abtrug, war derselbe, der anfing, kleine Steine wegzutragen. Auf geht's! :)

Damn, man, are you German?
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Do or die on September 14, 2019, 10:27:40 AM
Thanks lero. Now i have an basic idea to fight my urges at night. From today i will try this things you told. You are at day nine bro. You doing so good.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 14, 2019, 04:14:44 PM
Thanks lero. Now i have an basic idea to fight my urges at night. From today i will try this things you told. You are at day nine bro. You doing so good.

Good. Find what works for you to deal with urges late at night.
Title: Re: Alive but not living because of P
Post by: Lero on September 15, 2019, 08:04:04 AM
Day 10

I reached the checkpoint. Now the next one is 2 weeks.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Arthur2 on September 15, 2019, 09:59:29 AM
Good job, man.

Next milestone : 2 weeks.
It is not very far.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 15, 2019, 10:06:51 AM
Good job, man.

Next milestone : 2 weeks.
It is not very far.

Yes, it's not very far. That's how I like to set my milestones. I've realized that setting a milestone that it's far away (like 30 days, 90 days etc.) was scary and seemed hard to do, but focusing on smaller milestones seemed less hard (a psychological thing, you know what I mean? Mind tricks with myself). Therefore, my milestones are not very far from each other. The next one is 14 days (2 weeks) which is after only 4 days. This last milestone was 10 days which came after 1 week (7 days) which was only 3 days after. I trick myself into believing that I have only a few days to go until the next goal, not tens of days. And it's working. This works for me. Everybody should find what works for them.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: BlueHeronFan on September 15, 2019, 05:42:55 PM
Good job, man.

Next milestone : 2 weeks.
It is not very far.

Yes, it's not very far. That's how I like to set my milestones. I've realized that setting a milestone that it's far away (like 30 days, 90 days etc.) was scary and seemed hard to do, but focusing on smaller milestones seemed less hard (a psychological thing, you know what I mean? Mind tricks with myself). Therefore, my milestones are not very far from each other. The next one is 14 days (2 weeks) which is after only 4 days. This last milestone was 10 days which came after 1 week (7 days) which was only 3 days after. I trick myself into believing that I have only a few days to go until the next goal, not tens of days. And it's working. This works for me. Everybody should find what works for them.

That's exactly right! The same strategy has really helped me a lot too. When I first joined here, I thought I was going to go 100 days just like that. I couldn't. I could add up some smaller milestones to get to 100, though. There definitely is something about going through smaller milestones that helps psychologically, and I'm glad it's working for you.

Congrats on 10 days! You can definitely do 4 more!
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 16, 2019, 08:06:33 AM
Day 1

I relapsed. I made a mistake.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Free-man on September 16, 2019, 09:38:23 AM
Sorry, what happened Lero?
No matter, get up and start again when you're ready!
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: achilles heel on September 16, 2019, 11:38:39 AM
Day 1

I relapsed. I made a mistake.

What happened?

Whatever the mistake may have been: Don't make the same mistake I made and repeat the relapse over and over again. Get up right now and get back on track. Mistakes happen and they are not a complete setback unless you allow them to turn into days of binge.

A single relapse is no reason to panic, just make an emergency plan to avoid further damage. We're here to support you! :)
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Do or die on September 16, 2019, 01:39:20 PM
Just start again. Its just a part of your recovery. Write down your relapse reason. Learn from it.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Arthur2 on September 16, 2019, 06:20:26 PM
Yes, please write down your reason for relapse.
It will be helpful for us also.

Get back on track.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: BlueHeronFan on September 16, 2019, 09:16:24 PM
I can't say much more than everyone else already has. Relapses are part of the learning process.

Making a mistake and slipping up is different from willfully deciding to PMO.

Tomorrow is a new day
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Do or die on September 16, 2019, 10:28:10 PM
I also relapsed today. My one friend sent me videos of porn. And i fapped to that clips. I warned my friend about this. So for me today is day 0.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 17, 2019, 07:35:09 AM
Day 2

Starting all over again is annoying. However, I've realized one thing after the last relapse: If I don't binge, I am not as fucked up. I PMOed only once and today I am alright mentally.

First checkpoint is 5 days (because it's in the middle between 1 and 10).
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Do or die on September 17, 2019, 09:33:49 AM
Lero today i realized that we live with porn only or with our normal happy life. we not live with both. this is impossible. so when you close to relapse just think you need to choose one of two Life OR PMO.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Arthur2 on September 17, 2019, 06:21:53 PM
Quote
Starting all over again is annoying. However, I've realized one thing after the last relapse: If I don't binge, I am not as fucked up. I PMOed only once and today I am alright mentally.

Yes, absolutly. And congratulations for not binging.

That is why having a spreadsheet is not necessarily a bad idea. Because you didn t binge, you dont go back to rock bottom 0.

Of course you go back at day 0 but the benefits of your last streak are still here.

However, what i found out is that after a PMO the cravings for that particular scene are gonna be very strong for a few days or even weeks after, ofi dont binge.
Because my brain wanted to "exhaust" that scene to the max, and me not allowing it is unbearable for the brain.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Do or die on September 17, 2019, 09:53:02 PM
Develope a permanent thinking to stop PMO. This is developed by meditating daily. Because you also want a permanent solution to PMO. You never want relapse after 30-40 days.
So lere meditation helps for me. You also try it.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Arthur2 on September 17, 2019, 10:07:55 PM
But what is meditation for you ?

What do you do exactly when you meditate ?
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 18, 2019, 07:14:09 AM
Yes, absolutly. And congratulations for not binging.

That is why having a spreadsheet is not necessarily a bad idea. Because you didn t binge, you dont go back to rock bottom 0.

Of course you go back at day 0 but the benefits of your last streak are still here.



No man, I don't feel any "benefits of last streak still here". My mind doesn't work like that. I only feel good when I have a number of continuous days away from P. It's twisted. The only difference between binging and not binging is how miserable I feel in the next week. Feeling completed fucked up vs feeling better.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 18, 2019, 07:16:31 AM
However, what i found out is that after a PMO the cravings for that particular scene are gonna be very strong for a few days or even weeks after, ofi dont binge.
Because my brain wanted to "exhaust" that scene to the max, and me not allowing it is unbearable for the brain.

I know exactly what you're talking about. Something else that happens to me is that I get those thoughts like: "Man, you didn't watch this scene and that scene, they are your favorite. You know, why don't you watch them now because you're missing them and then you can reaaaaally start your streak." Yeah, sure. Fucking stupid thing.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 18, 2019, 07:19:43 AM
Day 3

Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Arthur2 on September 18, 2019, 10:33:59 AM
Quote
why don't you watch them now because you're missing them and then you can reaaaaally start your streak.

And this crap thinking patern is related to that damn "one last time and then i quit" mental-ity.

I have thought like this so many times. It comes down to the fact that we dont want to feel uncomfortable.


Quote
No man, I don't feel any "benefits of last streak still here". My mind doesn't work like that. I only feel good when I have a number of continuous days away from P. It's twisted. The only difference between binging and not binging is how miserable I feel in the next week. Feeling completed fucked up vs feeling better

Could we not consider "not being completly fucked up" as a substantial benefit ? ;)
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 18, 2019, 10:37:49 AM
And this crap thinking patern is related to that damn "one last time and then i quit" mental-ity.

I have thought like this so many times. It comes down to the fact that we dont want to feel uncomfortable.

Yes. Watch my favorite scenes one last time and then I could quit. I miss my favorite scenes and stuff like that. I can't believe how those thoughts invade my mind, man. I mean, I relapsed watching some scenes and then the next day I had this exact thought: "Fuck! I didn't watch that scene, that scene and that scene!" Like it was the end of the world or something. You can't really rely on your fucking brain, man. You gotta think deeper.

Quote
Could we not consider "not being completly fucked up" as a substantial benefit ?
Yes, I guess we can.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Arthur2 on September 18, 2019, 10:54:14 AM
Quote
You can't really rely on your fucking brain, man. You gotta think deeper.

Behold a very profound and meaningful quote.

Quote
I can't believe how those thoughts invade my mind, man.

Think about how many times you have done PMO in your life.

I dont know if you read it on my journal but i calculated that i MO' d approximatly 5040 times in my life. Think about the effects on the brain.
It is basically my whole life. My whole education and world and my everything is PMO-reward-based. My most tremendous rewarding thing that i had going on for me in my life was PMO !
If i had trained to play piano instead i would be a genious.
No wonder those thoughts invade your mind. Becaause your memory and thinking patern is FILLED with PMO.

We should not be too stern with our brain because actually, considering how deeply habituated we are to PMO, the reboot is not that hard to be honest (at least for me it doesnt seem to be that hard).
Now that i have read scientific info and tips and strategies and that i journal here. Those things were necessary for victory. I couldnt do without those tools.
My point is that i think the brain has a formidable ability to recover and heal.

But it is what it is.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Arthur2 on September 18, 2019, 11:38:48 AM
Quote
the reboot is not that hard to be honest

I don' t mean to sound cocky and arrogant.

It is very hard and i am expecting tough times ahead.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 18, 2019, 12:44:06 PM
Think about how many times you have done PMO in your life.

I dont know if you read it on my journal but i calculated that i MO' d approximatly 5040 times in my life. Think about the effects on the brain.
It is basically my whole life. My whole education and world and my everything is PMO-reward-based. My most tremendous rewarding thing that i had going on for me in my life was PMO !
If i had trained to play piano instead i would be a genious.
No wonder those thoughts invade your mind. Becaause your memory and thinking patern is FILLED with PMO.

We should not be too stern with our brain because actually, considering how deeply habituated we are to PMO, the reboot is not that hard to be honest (at least for me it doesnt seem to be that hard).
Now that i have read scientific info and tips and strategies and that i journal here. Those things were necessary for victory. I couldnt do without those tools.
My point is that i think the brain has a formidable ability to recover and heal.

But it is what it is.

This is real talk, man. I know exactly what you're talking about. Yes, I can't know how many times I've PMOed in my life but thousands of course. Like you said, if every PMO session had been a piano lesson, I would've been fucking Rubinstein by now. You see, I cannot say it otherwise: I like PMO. I like how it feels after I wait a number of days to build up urges. It's an activity that brings intense pleasure. This only fact would be enough for me to PMO all my life and if it wasn't for what I know about P now, I would definitely do this. For me, before the self-medication aspect of it, it is pleasure. But this very pleasure fucked me up. Isn't it ironic? Something that makes you feel good affects you that much? Slow suicide is no way to go. It is true that P is so much a part of my brain that it's very hard to unglue it from there, it's like the symbiote for Spiderman. I won't say rebooting is easy, maybe for you. For me it is brutal. I am aware of this, I don't like it but I will have to do it. Yes, I too know many things about how to do it but the pain will still be there.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Arthur2 on September 18, 2019, 04:48:30 PM
Man, i like PMO too.

It is pleasurable. I like doing it. I have had great times with it.
Those 2D wimen love me ! Them pixels really do love me ! They are always here for me whenever i want. They dont complain or whatever... Are always cheerful and ready... You get what i am saying.
But it is poison.

Like i said somewhere else : Not all pleasure is good for us.

Read that again.

Something that is pleasurable is not necessarily beneficial for us. It is a twoedged sword.
You can use sex as a tool to bond with your wife, or misuse it and destroy yourself.

And we have to learn that principle that not all pleasure is beneficial.
It is cruel but it is what it is. Rather : it is tough.
But life is tough. The lion eats the gazella alive, the africans children starve, mexicans are being kidnapped by mafia, and the PMO addict is in a snare of pleasure.

Think about that :

When you were a kid you wanted to eat only ice cream and candy, alright ?
Well thank God your parents forced you to eat your veggies.
Now you know and you eat your veggies because you have learnt.

Well, i dont know about you, but i havnt had strong warning against PMO (and warning REALLY strong would have been necessary). So no wonder if i fell in the snare.

No wonder. We are normal men. Very normal.

Actually i remember as a 14 y old, i thought PMO was a first step to becoming a sexually mature adult. I thought i was becoming more an adult by doing this, and that it was the first step before sex.

And because i was insecure, i wanted to be like everybody else and feel more "like a man". Bullshit.

And i found it was pleasurable.
You know the rest of the story. 14 years later here i am. 5040 times later.

The bottomline is that i love PMO very much.
And i hate it with a perfect hatred.

Not all pleasure is beneficial.

Arthur to Lero.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 18, 2019, 04:54:02 PM
Arthur, I know exactly what you're saying. I thought masturbation was normal and everybody did it but I didn't know that masturbating to P was my mistake. I didn't have any warning against P. I never bumped into anything telling me what P did to us. I only discovered in my 20's. But I'm up for the task to get rid of P from my life. I also hate P and PMO with passion.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 19, 2019, 06:25:11 AM
Day 4

If someone tells you, "It's a lovely day," agree with them because of course it's a lovely day. Don't be afraid to believe this.

Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Arthur2 on September 19, 2019, 01:14:09 PM
My friend Lero has relapsed 4 days ago but he got back on track very quickly.
That' s neat.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 20, 2019, 06:53:11 AM
My friend Lero has relapsed 4 days ago but he got back on track very quickly.
That' s neat.

Thanks, man.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 20, 2019, 06:53:44 AM
Day 5

Checkpoint saved.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: dusty on September 20, 2019, 07:17:17 AM
Good luck Lero, I've just read your last entries and see that you struggled a lot last weeks. I am so impressed by your determination. It's a kind of trait which I sometimes lack.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 20, 2019, 08:45:02 AM
Good luck Lero, I've just read your last entries and see that you struggled a lot last weeks. I am so impressed by your determination. It's a kind of trait which I sometimes lack.

Thanks, bro.

You know, I believe that determination can be trained. I wasn't born with it. Years ago I didn't make any progress because I was not that determined. But then I've realized something. I got my determination through knowledge. I read everything I could about how to run a successful reboot and then I said: "I know what I have to do. I'm not lost, I'm not hopeless, I'm not doing this in vain because I won't do this however I think I should do it, but I will do this following the strategies, advice and everything coming from successful rebooters, from scientific data and stuff like that." From here on, all I had to do is to keep trying until it was going to start working. This was the determination: I know the plan, now I have to keep trying until it will make me win. Of course, I will have to tweak it, add new things, eliminate other things, pay attention, identify stuff and everything else. I've had my moments when despise knowing what I had to do, I still relapsed. But this didn't mean that I was useless, that I wasn't capable of doing it, it meant that I still made some mistakes. Back then my mistake was "edging a little bit to fantasies and flashbacks or some soft stuff like social media pictures, without watching P, won't do any big harm". I had to eliminate that and I did. This made me accomplish a 40 days streak and I've lost it again because of a mistake. I knew that drinking made me relapse but I fell into the trap of thinking: "Come on, man, I drank a few days ago and I didn't relapse, I drank before that and I didn't relapse, I can handle it now." I drank too much with some guys then I came home at 10 PM and started a PMO binge. Obviously, I needed to eliminate this mistake too which I didn't. I relapsed the next time again because of drinking because I thought that drinking less wasn't going to make me relapse (as it didn't during my 40 days streak, only drinking a lot finally made me relapse so this gave me the wrong idea), I only drank 2 beers and it was enough to make me relapse again. I finally had to say: "Man, are you going to keep drinking no matter how less and keep relapsing and starting all over?" If I stay away from drinking, this streak will get bigger. I will tweak things until I won't make any more wrong steps, whatever that day will be, I hope it's closer than I think.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: squid on September 20, 2019, 12:27:49 PM
That's inspiring stuff Lero, it's awesome how you keep moving forward and never stop!
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 20, 2019, 01:32:36 PM
That's inspiring stuff Lero, it's awesome how you keep moving forward abd never stop!

I have no other alternative, man. I remind myself I am 29. I already know about P addiction, how long am I going to be an addict? I am almost in my 30's. Knowing how much this stupid thing affected me, I don't want to get too old still being heavily invested in P and having this feeling that I've never been at my full potential. There is no other alternative than being that determined to quit this.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: BlueHeronFan on September 20, 2019, 07:18:08 PM
I remind myself I am 29. I already know about P addiction, how long am I going to be an addict? I am almost in my 30's. Knowing how much this stupid thing affected me, I don't want to get too old still being heavily invested in P and having this feeling that I've never been at my full potential. There is no other alternative than being that determined to quit this.

I'm right with you man. I'm getting close to my 30s and I'm realizing that I don't want P to continue to be a part of my life. There really is no alternative, and it's awesome to be connected to other guys who are working on a better life too.

I will tweak things until I won't make any more wrong steps, whatever that day will be, I hope it's closer than I think.

And I think this is exactly right too. There's no other way to do it. Every relapse is a chance to learn about another trigger and to make another tweak. Even a relapse can be a sort of progress if it's not a relapse for the same reason as the last one.

But congrats on 5 days! You and I both know that the earliest days of a streak are the hardest. Keep at it and keep learning!
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 21, 2019, 04:38:01 AM
Thanks Blue Heron.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 21, 2019, 06:29:24 AM
Day 6
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Do or die on September 21, 2019, 06:57:58 AM
Its good to see you at day 6. I am at day 4 today.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 21, 2019, 07:45:23 AM
Its good to see you at day 6. I am at day 4 today.

Thanks. First week is actually easy for me. Then the hard part starts.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Arthur2 on September 21, 2019, 04:03:53 PM
Hey man, you are ahead of me again. I relapsed today. But i am not beat up. It is just an accident. I didnt like it. That was awkward. This is not me anymore.

Now you STAY AHEAD !

Good job man.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 21, 2019, 04:16:09 PM
Hey man, you are ahead of me again. I relapsed today. But i am not beat up. It is just an accident. I didnt like it. That was awkward. This is not me anymore.

Now you STAY AHEAD !

Good job man.

Hey, man! You were a week ahead of me and I was happy for you. But listen, this is not the end of the world. Every relapse is caused by a mistake. Identifying the mistake and working on avoid it is the key.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Arthur2 on September 21, 2019, 04:49:44 PM
Yes i know. Thank you for your support.

But i will say this : i prefer that you be ahead because i dont like to lead the pack. I am more a follower than a leader. That is why i relapsed. To let you take the lead.

Haha i am kidding. That would be silly.
Whoever is ahead doesnt matter, as long as we keep fighting and improving. Yes, i was happy to have this long streak but i went on a slippery slope.

Thank you again for supporting me and also for caring about my streak and wellbeing.
I also am happy when you get a long streak.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 21, 2019, 05:02:14 PM
Yes i know. Thank you for your support.

But i will say this : i prefer that you be ahead because i dont like to lead the pack. I am more a follower than a leader. That is why i relapsed. To let you take the lead.

Haha i am kidding. That would be silly.
Whoever is ahead doesnt matter, as long as we keep fighting and improving. Yes, i was happy to have this long streak but i went on a slippery slope.

Thank you again for supporting me and also for caring about my streak and wellbeing.
I also am happy when you get a long streak.

No problem, man. If I only did it for me, I wouldn't take it seriously and push myself. But I don't want to let people down that's why I will get back to the good road.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: zazen on September 22, 2019, 04:24:23 AM
Hi Lero,
I can see you have lately been through some ups and downs, which also brought you a lot of self-knowledge and a deeper awareness about you and how the puzzle of triggers works. You'r words are inspiring and Im 100% sure you will eventually come across the other side. You are determined and can tell you want this.. stick in there brother we are all rooting for you and believe in you. And about the relapses,, hmm... I just wanted to share this with you :

Quote
Sorry for the relapse, man.

When you relapse, you don't fail, you find another thing that didn't work. A relapse is an invitation to analyze the situation, see what went wrong, what mistake you made, what you were thinking before the relapse, what environment, circumstances etc. led to your relapse and so on. If you feel down after a relapse, it's normal. It sucks but, at the end of the day, people feel down from time to time. But don't allow yourself to go lower than that because you reach misery and a mind in that state is a great environment for the addiction to keep complete control over you. One day things will eventually click.

those are your own words  :) ... those words affected me back in august when read it. you are filled with a lot of gold and wisdom... now lets get the action part and emotional control along side of all that knowledge you posses :) .. as I think you are more than capable of getting rid of this shit for good. Sometimes people just need a little push or words of encouragement. You know what triggers you and you know they begin way before taking action right... so my question is.. is there anything you can think of, which could interrupt when the thoughts come up?... 

I remember that I started meditation in the beginning of my journey when I realized voices telling me to watch a bit of xyz...   I have improved a lot since my journey, but its still a daily struggle. And my present way of coping is praying.. just clapping my hands together, closing my eyes and pray... I am not religious at all .. but hey, if this can distract me, then all good.

and wanted to appreciate your last post about the pain and going through it. This is how my story started.. facing the pain. Im still doing it and fighting each day. going from daily pmo to where I am now is huge...  and you sir, can do just that as well. you are insightful and know how to beat this...  now lets go beat it for good. you have it in you. 

oh and another thing that helped me was writing mini-goals - like "I look forward to day 10,, day 20,, day 30 etc". Not sure if would work for you, but you can try it out to see if it works or not.
and a final response to what you wrote :  "But I don't want to let people down that's why I will get back to the good road."...   this way of thinking pushed me a lot in the begining.. not to dissapoint people here. But I want to let you know, that no matter where you are in your journey, no matter what you do, relapse or not .. you are not dissapointing anyone, no matter what happens. We are here to support as we believe in you, I believe in you.

I and i'm sure all people here just want you to succeed and thats it. Lets put all thoughts of disappointments and what not aside and focus on what is going to happen... that you'll eventually find you'r way and kick this shit for good - this is going to happen.. so,, make it happen =) you got this. 

If its okey, i'd like to invite you to set a goal for 10 days and fully focus on it. update that counter daily and thats all. I know we are all different, but i'd like you to forget about that previous 40-day streak and focus on now.. I'd like to push you a lil bit.
and try to stay observant of your chain, and have a go-to plan which you can execute immidietly. (my suggestion was praying but yours could be cold water or pushups or whatever).. something you can do right there and then to get out of it.

try to ignore my way of writing in a motivative way lol,,  none of this motivation works when triggers come, and one is all alone and lonely etc. You need to face the pain head on and have a contingency plan (what to do if xyz happens)
you got this!!

all the best -
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 22, 2019, 04:28:27 AM
Day 7

1 week hard mode.

I had a P dream where I edged a tone to P. I woke up and thought: "Fuck, I edged to P, this is a relapse, my streak is over!" only to realize a few seconds later that it was just a dream. It's not the first time when this happens to me and I hate how real it feels.

However, I woke up from the P dream with intense urges, as if I was in front of the computer watching P. Fucking stupid thing, man. I can't believe this. It's not the first time. P hijacks my dreams.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: zazen on September 22, 2019, 04:35:47 AM
Lero, congrats on day 7.. that is awesome!
yea i've been there several times with the P hijacking dream thing and scared that I broke my stride.. just to realize it was a dream.
In my perspective, it is a good thing this is happening. See it as a test from something subconscious that is trying to hold on,, but in fact, you are in control now and taken over.
I dont have those dreams any longer,, they will fade eventually.     keep it up :)
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 22, 2019, 05:08:24 AM
Hi Lero,
I can see you have lately been through some ups and downs, which also brought you a lot of self-knowledge and a deeper awareness about you and how the puzzle of triggers works. You'r words are inspiring and Im 100% sure you will eventually come across the other side. You are determined and can tell you want this.. stick in there brother we are all rooting for you and believe in you. And about the relapses,, hmm... I just wanted to share this with you :

Quote
Sorry for the relapse, man.

When you relapse, you don't fail, you find another thing that didn't work. A relapse is an invitation to analyze the situation, see what went wrong, what mistake you made, what you were thinking before the relapse, what environment, circumstances etc. led to your relapse and so on. If you feel down after a relapse, it's normal. It sucks but, at the end of the day, people feel down from time to time. But don't allow yourself to go lower than that because you reach misery and a mind in that state is a great environment for the addiction to keep complete control over you. One day things will eventually click.

those are your own words  :) ... those words affected me back in august when read it. you are filled with a lot of gold and wisdom... now lets get the action part and emotional control along side of all that knowledge you posses :) .. as I think you are more than capable of getting rid of this shit for good. Sometimes people just need a little push or words of encouragement.

Zazen, thanks for taking the time to write this long post. You actually posted it at the same time with my "Day 7" post  :D

I appreciate the support, man. And I'm glad that what I said back then helped you.

Quote
You know what triggers you and you know they begin way before taking action right... so my question is.. is there anything you can think of, which could interrupt when the thoughts come up?...  I remember that I started meditation in the beginning of my journey when I realized voices telling me to watch a bit of xyz...   I have improved a lot since my journey, but its still a daily struggle. And my present way of coping is praying.. just clapping my hands together, closing my eyes and pray... I am not religious at all .. but hey, if this can distract me, then all good.

Yes, a relapse starts in the mind before you act out. It's important to see it coming. And it's important to know your P behavior well: What things you do, what stimulants you search for when the craving starts? Some people think that because it's something light (like a picture), it won't do a lot of harm, which is wrong. If it's P behavior, get rid of it, no matter how light. Because it creates a chain reaction. It sets in motion some cravings that will eventually sabotage you. I know what represents P behavior for me. I see it coming. I see when my addicted brain wants me to search for something. Now it's trying to make me search for something light, because it knows I won't give it the strong stuff so easily. So it tries to make me give it an inch so it could take a mile.

What I do when hard urges hit me? I like to think about why I really want to quit P: I think about the benefits of P abstinence (which I've seen manifesting after 3 weeks hard mode), I think about how a relapse feels like, I think about how my default state of mind is when I'm heavily invested in binging every few days, and then I tell myself that I want to choose the benefits, not the relapses and binges. This helps me reinforce my motivation to keep going and it also helps me distract myself from thinking about P by focusing on something else. If I do something, I focus hard on what I do and try to ignore P. It's not different from what you do with prayer, it's a distraction by focusing on something else. The idea is: Whatever works for everybody. Everybody needs to find a way to deal with waves of hard urges. Whatever works for them.

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and wanted to appreciate your last post about the pain and going through it. This is how my story started.. facing the pain. Im still doing it and fighting each day. going from daily pmo to where I am now is huge...  and you sir, can do just that as well. you are insightful and know how to beat this...  now lets go beat it for good. you have it in you.

Yes, pain is inevitable. Every addiction has withdrawal and this is the suffering. But I've come to accept it. In the beginning it drove me crazy. "Why do I need to suffer?" But since then I've understood that there is no other way, I need to go through the withdrawal if I want to finally be done with this and I will do it. Keep in mind that this withdrawal is a short period of time in comparison to the rest of the years we have left to live. It's months of suffering vs years of being free. I think we know what we want to choose. If we don't do this, another year will pass and then another and the number of years left for us to live free diminishes with each refusal to face the suffering.

Quote
oh and another thing that helped me was writing mini-goals - like "I look forward to day 10,, day 20,, day 30 etc". Not sure if would work for you, but you can try it out to see if it works or not.

But I actually do something like this. I don't know if you've seen me writing about this somewhere. I have a mini-goals system: 5 days (because it's the middle between 1 and 10), 7 days (because it's a week), 10 days (cause it's 10), 14 days (cause it's 2 weeks), 15 days (the middle of 10 and 20), 20 days, 21 days (3 weeks). I call them checkpoints. And you see, they are so close to each other, some come after only 1 day. It helps me think that I can go a few more days or just 1 day. It's a psychological stuff, because jumping right into it and say: "Okay, I will go 90 days without P" was too scary. I felt overwhelmed by the number of days I had to go, but going a few days or just 1 day in some cases looked a lot more possible. And they still lead me to that big goal, but I try not to focus on it and only focus on the next goal, for example 10 days this time. Small steps still move you forward and it looks more possible to make 5 steps than walk 100 miles. But you will get to 100 miles by accumulating many rounds of 5 steps. Mind tricks with myself.

Anyway, thanks again for the support and encouragement, man. It's welcome.



Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 22, 2019, 05:09:18 AM
Lero, congrats on day 7.. that is awesome!
yea i've been there several times with the P hijacking dream thing and scared that I broke my stride.. just to realize it was a dream.
In my perspective, it is a good thing this is happening. See it as a test from something subconscious that is trying to hold on,, but in fact, you are in control now and taken over.
I dont have those dreams any longer,, they will fade eventually.     keep it up :)

Yeah, man, those fucking dreams are annoying. They feel so real. I wake up and for a few seconds I am sure I lost my streak. I dream about watching P.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 22, 2019, 01:31:26 PM
I relapsed. 5 PMOs.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Free-man on September 22, 2019, 01:37:44 PM
What happened this time Lero?
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: zazen on September 22, 2019, 01:39:51 PM
Lero thank you for sharing your honesty and being real.

I just wanted to write I my full compassion and understanding how hard this journey can be.
You have my full support still despite anything. We all have your back.

Take your time and you'll get back.
No words of advice or anything from here - not appropriate at this point. I am sure you will come with an analysis yourself at some point. 

you'll be back brother. dont sweat it. you know what went wrong and you can improve that for next time. 
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 22, 2019, 01:44:19 PM
Lero thank you for sharing your honesty and being real.

I just wanted to write I my full compassion and understanding how hard this journey can be.
You have my full support still despite anything. We all have your back.

Take your time and you'll get back.
No words of advice or anything from here - not appropriate at this point. I am sure you will come with an analysis yourself at some point. 

you'll be back brother. dont sweat it. you know what went wrong and you can improve that for next time.

Thanks, man. You say the best things after a relapse.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 22, 2019, 01:45:54 PM
It's fucking annoying.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Free-man on September 22, 2019, 01:50:36 PM
What trigger made you fall in this relapse?
You know you have my all support too man!
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 22, 2019, 01:55:22 PM
What trigger made you fall in this relapse?
You know you have my all support too man!

Thanks for the support.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Arthur2 on September 22, 2019, 06:16:34 PM
SHIT !

(You have all my support)
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: BlueHeronFan on September 22, 2019, 06:27:34 PM
Sorry for the relapse, but congrats on a week either way.

Keep learning, keep fighting. This is the journey of a lifetime. Don't forget how far you have come already. How far you have left to go doesn't matter as much as the fact that you keep moving forward.

Sending good vibes your way for a great day tomorrow!
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 23, 2019, 06:36:06 AM
Day 1

I'm fucking tired to write day 1 here over and over again. But I deserve it because of making the same mistake despise knowing about it already.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Free-man on September 23, 2019, 06:55:16 AM
Don't worry Lero,
Sooner or later you're going to quit of this shit.

As I said to Arthur2, you can write in a spreadsheet all the things that make you relapse
Trigger:
PMO, MO, O:
How many times:
Duration:
What day of the week:
What time of the day:

I think it could help you to track and analyze your relapses to when the cravings begins again
It's an idea that could help you, but obviously you can to start the hard mode .
 
I also recommend all of you install blockers in your computers and mobile phones. Because even an innocent pic can trigger so strong that make you relapse.
We even avoid to think in porn or a pic or fantasize. We have to avoid the dopamine hits in our brain at least for 90 days or even some more. We have to desensitize totally. It's very hard.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 23, 2019, 06:55:27 AM
SHIT !

(You have all my support)

You are leading again.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 23, 2019, 06:57:10 AM
Sorry for the relapse, but congrats on a week either way.

Keep learning, keep fighting. This is the journey of a lifetime. Don't forget how far you have come already. How far you have left to go doesn't matter as much as the fact that you keep moving forward.

Sending good vibes your way for a great day tomorrow!

Thanks, man. Thanks for the constant support.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 23, 2019, 06:58:45 AM
Don't worry Lero,
Sooner or later you're going to quit of this shit.

As I said to Arthur2, you can write in a spreadsheet all the things that make you relapse
Trigger:
PMO, MO, O:
How many times:
Duration:
What day of the week:
What time of the day:

I think it could help you to track and analyze your relapses to when the cravings begins again
It's an idea that could help you, but obviously you can to start the hard mode .
 
I also recommend all of you install blockers in your computers and mobile phones. Because even an innocent pic can trigger so strong that make you relapse.
We even avoid to think in porn or a pic or fantasize. We have to avoid the dopamine hits in our brain at least for 90 days or even some more. We have to desensitize totally. It's very hard.

I know why I relapse. But I've been repeating mistakes. Sometimes I am dumbfounded how I could do this. Like I've said already, days without repeating those mistakes will be the days of the continuous streak.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 23, 2019, 07:05:17 AM
It's fucking annoying to reset yourself with a binge and then start from scratch. I don't have fucking patience to repeat this shit over and over again. I need to make the streak bigger. It's time to wake up. Slow suicide is no way to go. I haven't given up on life, on my full potential, on successful sex for the first time in my life.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Do or die on September 23, 2019, 12:05:13 PM
Lero be calm . have Patience. If you relapsed take a deep breath . you just one step away from success. I am also relapsed like this in last month. But i found an relapse prevention method. My method is to focus only on reboot in any case. How the urge strong i am focusing only on reboot. Because i need recovery . so you also don't be frustrated just focus on your recovery.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 23, 2019, 01:25:18 PM
Lero be calm . have Patience. If you relapsed take a deep breath . you just one step away from success. I am also relapsed like this in last month. But i found an relapse prevention method. My method is to focus only on reboot in any case. How the urge strong i am focusing only on reboot. Because i need recovery . so you also don't be frustrated just focus on your recovery.

Thanks, man. Thanks for taking your time to pay attention to me. I appreciate this.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Arthur2 on September 23, 2019, 05:44:41 PM
Day 0 for me a-freakin-gain.

I am more disgusted with P than i ever was.

My hatred for it is increasing with every relapse.

Yes you put it right : we need not depress.

I am not depressed tonight.

I am ENRAGED.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: BlueHeronFan on September 23, 2019, 08:51:48 PM
Even with a relapse in the recent past, you are different man than you were when you started here. Don't forget that. It has been awesome to see you learn and grow.

I know that anger and frustration can be motivating, and I know that they are a natural reaction to disappointing yourself with a relapse. But always be careful that you don't turn yourself into your enemy. Be gentle, kind, and understanding with yourself. You didn't relapse because you want to sabotage yourself. You didn't relapse because porn is just too strong. You didn't relapse because you clicked on the wrong website.

When it really comes down to it, you relapsed because there is some unmet need, and porn fills the gap. Maybe, instead of (understandably) raging against porn for getting you again, spend some time reflecting on where in your life you can take better care of yourself. What hurts? What does porn let you escape for a while? For me, recognizing that porn is the wrong kind of medicine for my emotional pain has made a big difference. As I have worked on taking better care of myself, porn just hasn't felt as necessary. I'm finding better ways to cope with the pain when it comes up.

Stay strong! Stay the course! And treat yourself right!
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Arthur2 on September 23, 2019, 09:01:03 PM
Thank you, blue heron fan.

Sound words.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 23, 2019, 09:48:05 PM
Day 0 for me a-freakin-gain.

I am more disgusted with P than i ever was.

My hatred for it is increasing with every relapse.

Yes you put it right : we need not depress.

I am not depressed tonight.

I am ENRAGED.

I feel you, man. I'm in the same boat. I hate how P has become my remedy while knowing that it doesn't heal anything. Some guy said hundreds of years ago something like: "There are worse remedies than the disease". Boom! This is P. P promises a lot and delivers problems. It adds another problem to our problems already. Getting depressed about it won't help us. Because we know why: We self-medicate our problems with P so P will take advantages of our depression. Feeling down is alright for a while, I guess. Even the strongest people have moments of feeling down but feeling down is not depression. Feeling down is not misery. Feeling down means tomorrow we start again. Misery means that we could go on a week of relapses to "self-medicate". Fucking self-medication. If I hate something is self-medication.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 23, 2019, 09:49:52 PM
Even with a relapse in the recent past, you are different man than you were when you started here. Don't forget that. It has been awesome to see you learn and grow.

I know that anger and frustration can be motivating, and I know that they are a natural reaction to disappointing yourself with a relapse. But always be careful that you don't turn yourself into your enemy. Be gentle, kind, and understanding with yourself. You didn't relapse because you want to sabotage yourself. You didn't relapse because porn is just too strong. You didn't relapse because you clicked on the wrong website.

When it really comes down to it, you relapsed because there is some unmet need, and porn fills the gap. Maybe, instead of (understandably) raging against porn for getting you again, spend some time reflecting on where in your life you can take better care of yourself. What hurts? What does porn let you escape for a while? For me, recognizing that porn is the wrong kind of medicine for my emotional pain has made a big difference. As I have worked on taking better care of myself, porn just hasn't felt as necessary. I'm finding better ways to cope with the pain when it comes up.

Stay strong! Stay the course! And treat yourself right!

Yes, that's right.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 24, 2019, 06:06:15 AM
Day 0

Maybe I have a problem with partying, drinking and hanging out with the wrong entourage. Like a fucking movie. Hard drinking sessions deplete my dopamine and the next morning I feel low and crave dopamine like it's the fucking antidote.

Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Free-man on September 24, 2019, 06:28:00 AM
You need to install porn blockers as I said to Arthur2 and also you need to hate alcohol too and forbid it to yourself. It seems that it's the trigger that lead you to porn.

1. Don't drink anymore since now. Throw all the alcohol to the trash.
2. Install porn blockers in your computers and mobile phone. Write a difficult password in a paper and burn it later to not comeback to unblock them.
3. Be ready to Hard mode
4. Cravings will come (for alcohol firstly, and later for porn = both caused by anxiety) be ready, go out, cook, read, exercise…

It's time to change your destructive behaviours : partying, alcohol and porn.

We're here to support you man.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Do or die on September 24, 2019, 06:52:47 AM
Day 0

Maybe I have a problem with partying, drinking and hanging out with the wrong entourage. Like a fucking movie. Hard drinking sessions deplete my dopamine and the next morning I feel low and crave dopamine like it's the fucking antidote.
Thats good you are on path again. i am agree what are you saying, i don't drink but as i know all addiction is affects similarly to the brain.
so as you started reboot , try to decrease your drinking frequency till full reboot.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 24, 2019, 09:18:53 AM
I can't fuck around nomo.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Arthur2 on September 24, 2019, 06:50:08 PM
Quote
I can't fuck around nomo

Yep. Life is serious stuff. Life is to be taken seriously.
Life is all you have. It is not a game. Nobody can afford to fool around, when you actually realize how valuable life is.

Nobody can afford to fool around. You no more than anybody.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 25, 2019, 05:32:32 AM
Day 1

Fucking day 1, man! How many times will I allow myself to write "day 1" here? I need to invest some urgency in this. No. 1 priority.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Free-man on September 25, 2019, 06:11:22 AM
That's right!

Today begins your new life man!

To be ready, please read this, it will help you:
https://www.nofap.com/forum/index.php?threads/action-or-not-have-you-actually-prepared-for-it.3549/ (https://www.nofap.com/forum/index.php?threads/action-or-not-have-you-actually-prepared-for-it.3549/)
http://www.covenanteyes.com/2014/02/28/hypofrontality/ (http://www.covenanteyes.com/2014/02/28/hypofrontality/)

Take your time and be prepared for the reboot, make a plan and start from there.
I mean that you have to be ready for the battle, mentally.
Make a plan:

- throw away out the alcohol
- Install porn blockers in your computer and mobile phone and delete porn and hot pics to avoid triggers and relapses
- No facebook, tinder, twitter, pinterest, tumblr…social networks in general. They are bad partners…
- Make a plan when the urges and cravings appears: Exercise, go out for a walk, go to buy food or shopping, cooking new recipes, healthy recipes, go to expositions, to   the library (choose an interesting book to read)…

All my help and support
Cheers!
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: achilles heel on September 25, 2019, 03:48:38 PM
Day 0

Maybe I have a problem with partying, drinking and hanging out with the wrong entourage. Like a fucking movie. Hard drinking sessions deplete my dopamine and the next morning I feel low and crave dopamine like it's the fucking antidote.

I can relate a lot to this. First and second week without drinking are easy, but when time advances it feels hard to justify not drinking at least one beer with the friends because, well "You always did, what's wrong?". And after drinking the first, well, why not drink a second one? Then comes the third and control is lost already. Staying home or avoiding the "entourage" feels bad too.

The only thing that works for me is leaving the cell phone far away and make it impossible for me in the night/morning after to have it near me.

Day 1

Fucking day 1, man! How many times will I allow myself to write "day 1" here? I need to invest some urgency in this. No. 1 priority.

I wrote it yesterday and it sucks, but the important thing is to get up once more than falling down. We've got the unbreakable will to change things, beside setbacks and steps in the wrong direction. This whole journey makes us stronger, helps us growing as a person. You're not alone in this and there is hope, just get back on track!
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Arthur2 on September 25, 2019, 04:32:06 PM
My best friend back then told me "Arthur (cause my real name is Arthur, not Arthur2), there is something i really appreciate while hanging out with you, is that we can have fun without drinking."

Think about that. I was the only one of his friend who was not drinking. And we had a lot of sober fun. He ended up quiting alcohol altogether. I think he is still abstinent to this day.

(I am not braging here, if i dont drink, it is more an "accident" than a conscious effort on my part. It just happens to be that i dont drink)

WHAT A SHAME THAT I WAS THE ONLY ONE OF HIS FRIENDS NOT DRINKING !

All the others : were they really his friends ?

And he had a problem with alcohol.

And i am not judging people who drink. But his "friends" were not helping him by drinking with him.
And i am not judging them either.

I am just mad at alcohol. That' s it.

I think it is do or die who has a "friend" that sent him porn on his phone. Wah ! What a good friend you got here !

I hope we can all quit every kind of addiction that is poisoning us.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Do or die on September 25, 2019, 11:13:21 PM
as you mentioned about my friend arthur2 am trying to reboot my friend also. and that friend is also knows about harms of porn addiction.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 26, 2019, 07:11:34 AM
Day 2
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 26, 2019, 07:14:37 AM
I can relate a lot to this. First and second week without drinking are easy, but when time advances it feels hard to justify not drinking at least one beer with the friends because, well "You always did, what's wrong?". And after drinking the first, well, why not drink a second one? Then comes the third and control is lost already. Staying home or avoiding the "entourage" feels bad too.

The only thing that works for me is leaving the cell phone far away and make it impossible for me in the night/morning after to have it near me.

I know. That's what I'm trying to say. But really, I cannot drink anymore. It makes me relapse.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 26, 2019, 07:29:06 AM
Arthur, it's good to know that your name is not Arthur2  :D I didn't know that before you told me.

Now seriously, I know what you're talking about. Friends who are only friends with you because you drink with them might not really be friends. I had this feeling that I probably had a bad entourage. Friends should still be friends even if you tell them one day: "You know, I don't want to drink anymore for personal reasons." Those friends would probably tell me that I should become a monk.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 26, 2019, 07:49:23 AM
I wrote it yesterday and it sucks, but the important thing is to get up once more than falling down. We've got the unbreakable will to change things, beside setbacks and steps in the wrong direction. This whole journey makes us stronger, helps us growing as a person. You're not alone in this and there is hope, just get back on track!

It's annoying to write day 1 again and again. The thing is, this fucking brain has a good way of making me "forget" about the misery. I know how the fuck I feel after a relapse but then I "forget" about it. It's just a distant memory. 
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Do or die on September 26, 2019, 08:58:15 AM
You can do it lero. As you suggested me to keep small goals you also start like that.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 26, 2019, 09:46:40 AM
You can do it lero. As you suggested me to keep small goals you also start like that.

Thanks. You too.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 26, 2019, 02:00:01 PM
You know, I've been thinking today. This will be easier if I just accept the suffering. You see, I rebel against the suffering all the time. I hate suffering, I hate discomfort. This is probably because I always had the self-medication (PMO) ready when discomfort came up. I liked to be numb and feel no emotions. But I realized that it was a matter of: "This is what you need to go through in order for what you want to happen. Do you want to be porn-free? Then suffering needs to happen. No suffering means no porn-free." I hated to think about this. I fucking hated to think that I couldn't be porn-free without suffering. I rejected the suffering, I went against it and the result was that I was still a slave to porn. I could not get rid of porn because I could not accept the fact that I needed to suffer. The moments when I let go and briefly accept the suffering are the moments when I feel that recovery is possible. Then my rejection for the suffering comes back and I feel trapped. I need to work this out. I'm supposed to change my job next month (as long as those motherfuckers won't take too long). I've been waiting for this job for three years. I passed an exam and then they just took too fucking long. I had to work other shit jobs until now. But this new job is what I want and I need some energy, confidence and mood to do well there, I can't be fucking invested in P and do well at the same time. It doesn't work with me. Therefore, I need to get momentum. I need to get at least 2 weeks of hard mode to function better.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: BlueHeronFan on September 26, 2019, 05:43:02 PM
You know, I've been thinking today. This will be easier if I just accept the suffering. You see, I rebel against the suffering all the time. I hate suffering, I hate discomfort. This is probably because I always had the self-medication (PMO) ready when discomfort came up. I liked to be numb and feel no emotions. But I realized that it was a matter of: "This is what you need to go through in order for what you want to happen. Do you want to be porn-free? Then suffering needs to happen. No suffering means no porn-free." I hated to think about this. I fucking hated to think that I couldn't be porn-free without suffering. I rejected the suffering, I went against it and the result was that I was still a slave to porn. I could not get rid of porn because I could not accept the fact that I needed to suffer. The moments when I let go and briefly accept the suffering are the moments when I feel that recovery is possible. Then my rejection for the suffering comes back and I feel trapped. I need to work this out. I'm supposed to change my job next month (as long as those motherfuckers won't take too long). I've been waiting for this job for three years. I passed an exam and then they just took too fucking long. I had to work other shit jobs until now. But this new job is what I want and I need some energy, confidence and mood to do well there, I can't be fucking invested in P and do well at the same time. It doesn't work with me. Therefore, I need to get momentum. I need to get at least 2 weeks of hard mode to function better.

A lot of wise thinking here. Learning a new attitude towards suffering and developing new strategies for living with it will go a long way in helping your recovery. That doesn't mean giving up in the face of suffering, but instead accepting it and pressing on to better things rather than just trying to escape from it all.

Keep going and keep up the deep thinking!
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Do or die on September 26, 2019, 11:03:24 PM
This is the very good thing happen here that we get a perfect way of rebooting by relapses. We know our last way is little bit worst. So lero your right a accepting attitude towards suffering is very good for our journey. Keep going lerom
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 27, 2019, 08:08:31 AM
A lot of wise thinking here. Learning a new attitude towards suffering and developing new strategies for living with it will go a long way in helping your recovery. That doesn't mean giving up in the face of suffering, but instead accepting it and pressing on to better things rather than just trying to escape from it all.

Keep going and keep up the deep thinking!

Thanks, man. That's right.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 27, 2019, 08:10:32 AM
Day 3
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Do or die on September 27, 2019, 08:35:46 AM
Lero how you handled your urges after relapse. i am relapsed today. so i am at day 0 today. i decided and followed nofap whole day but i relapsed at evening.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 27, 2019, 10:03:41 AM
Lero how you handled your urges after relapse. i am relapsed today. so i am at day 0 today. i decided and followed nofap whole day but i relapsed at evening.

I don't search for porn.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Do or die on September 27, 2019, 12:00:33 PM
Ok . thanks for help.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: username is not available on September 27, 2019, 05:03:39 PM
stopping drinking is like stopping watching porn
its all or nothing

I stopped drinking and it was a really good descision for me
havent drinked since july 2018



Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 28, 2019, 03:41:22 AM
stopping drinking is like stopping watching porn
its all or nothing

I stopped drinking and it was a really good descision for me
havent drinked since july 2018

I guess so.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 28, 2019, 03:42:25 AM
Day 4

I'm changing my job next Tuesday which will make me work in the city. There will be more opportunities to do some things for my life. I'll try to tweak the recovery plan and make it better.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: aufa298 on September 28, 2019, 04:01:21 AM
nice
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: sosjom08 on September 28, 2019, 05:53:59 AM
 :D :D
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Do or die on September 28, 2019, 06:30:40 AM
Day 4

I'm changing my job next Tuesday which will make me work in the city. There will be more opportunities to do some things for my life. I'll try to tweak the recovery plan and make it better.
Good
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 28, 2019, 12:52:42 PM
I've said this before but I really need some streak these days. I can't be a zombie at this new job. I need to feel some energy and mood. PMO won't give me none of those. Fuck P. Tuesday will be day 7. Things should start feeling a little better by then. I'm dealing with some anxiety for changing jobs. New environment, new faces.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: BlueHeronFan on September 28, 2019, 05:51:47 PM
Congrats on the job switch! All the anxiety that comes with it is very normal and to be expected. What are you doing to take care of yourself? Sometimes, I feel like I just have to tough it out and do all the normal things while feeling anxious and miserable, but that's a recipe for relapse. Don't forget to take some time to slow down and let some of that anxiety out so that it doesn't turn into urges.

Keep it up!
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Do or die on September 28, 2019, 09:34:46 PM
Congratulations. a new environment also help you to reboot. Because you are busy in adjusting yourself. Meeting with new peoples etc etc.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 29, 2019, 04:22:36 AM
Day 5

I reached the first checkpoint.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: achilles heel on September 29, 2019, 05:39:13 AM
Congratulations, Lero, now build up on this good start and complete the first week!  :)
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Do or die on September 29, 2019, 07:11:28 AM
Congratulations . it tales so much mind power you have. Its very difficult to rebuilt the self confidence when you relapse.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 30, 2019, 04:51:38 AM
Congratulations . it tales so much mind power you have. Its very difficult to rebuilt the self confidence when you relapse.

Thanks, man. Good luck.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 30, 2019, 05:03:57 AM
Day 6

I had to wake up early and I was really tired for a few hours but around 10 AM I started to see more clearly. Tomorrow, I will wake up early again. I have to deliver the papers and be hired at this new job then go to their doctor for medical tests.

Urges are not present at all. I don't feel energized and I'm dealing with some anxiety. I think I need at least one more week to feel more energy and less anxiety. I haven't drunk in a week and I don't plan to but I have moments when my mind wonders to "Man, let's have some fun!" I don't need any obstacles right now, this job is important to me. I've been waiting for it for 3 freaking years and before that I invested a lot of energy in getting it. I cannot sabotage myself with drinking and PMO binges. I don't need to be a zombie. I made the mistake to PMO last Tuesday and on the same day I found out I was going to be hired. It sucks, man. I need at least 2 weeks to be in a better state of mind for such things. Shit. But anyway, at least I will have 1 week, it could've been worse, it could've been just 1 day. I guess that's how my mind works. It's also a psychological thing when I reach "that number of days". I automatically start feeling better.

One last thing I want to say: P is the opposite of living. You cannot be at your maximum potential and invested in P at the same time. You have to choose one. I choose life. I choose this job, I choose the attempt to make some friends, I choose some hobbies that I want to start. P is like a stone that is tied to your leg when you walk. 
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Pete McVries on September 30, 2019, 05:18:41 AM
All the best for your new job!
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 30, 2019, 05:58:23 AM
All the best for your new job!

Thank you.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: squid on September 30, 2019, 09:29:23 AM
Nice work on the job Lero.  Focus on the positive, prepare well for your new work responsibilities and you'll do great.  You're right, what you do or don't do while off the job affects how you perform on the job.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on September 30, 2019, 10:16:16 AM
Nice work on the job Lero.  Focus on the positive, prepare well for your new work responsibilities and you'll do great.  You're right, what you do or don't do while off the job affects how you perform on the job.

Yes, definitely. Thank you.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Free-man on September 30, 2019, 10:38:25 AM
Congrats Lero. Good news man!
Time to see things in different way.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on October 01, 2019, 07:14:04 AM
Congrats Lero. Good news man!
Time to see things in different way.

Definitely, man. Things should start moving. I gotta work on my life.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on October 01, 2019, 07:33:48 AM
Day 7

1 week on hard mode, again. This is another checkpoint. You know, I've noticed something: I couldn't go past day 4 and now 7 days is easy. Actually even 10 days is easy. My "muscle" got trained and now it can handle it better.

Another thing that I want to say: The city has "TRIGGERS" written in capital letters all over it. For a P addict, this is suffocating. Too much "softcore P" disguised as advertisements everywhere I fucking look. At the same time, girls look so uninteresting because they are not on a screen. Their skin looks so "weird", so unappealing. I feel no interest to engage with them. Ha! It makes me laugh like the Joker from the new movie. I am stimulated by advertisements but not by real girls. This is the true definition of P addict, man. Only 7 days won't turn things upside down but I'll get there.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on October 01, 2019, 12:46:50 PM
So I came back to say this: You are only defeated when you give up. So never give up. Learn everything about your P behavior, see what mistakes you make, what are your triggers, what things to avoid etc. And then make quitting P your no. 1 priority and do everything it takes to make it work. Excuses are only ways to remove yourself from this. Fuck excuses. We don't remove ourselves from the recovery path, we don't step aside. Learn everything about your P world and even when you don't have mood, push through it and everyday do the things that must be done for your recovery. Who does this can't fail. It won't be an overnight thing but this will eventually lead us where we should be. Peace. God bless.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Arthur2 on October 01, 2019, 02:04:00 PM
Yep.
The only way to fail is to quit.
"For the just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again."

This is a proverb of the Bible showing that the righteous person will fall sometimes. Because we are humans and not gods. Nobody is perfect.
But the righteous gets back up again.
If you fall every day of the week, what do you do ?
You get up on your feet and start a fresh second week.

Dont quit. That is pivotal.

Yes, we shouldnt find excuses.
The lazy person finds excuses why they have no succes, the righteous person finds a way to succes.

Quote
1 week on hard mode, again. This is another checkpoint. You know, I've noticed something: I couldn't go past day 4 and now 7 days is easy. Actually even 10 days is easy. My "muscle" got trained and now it can handle it better.

Congratulations for this week. This is a great accomplishment so far.
Day by day, we will do it.
I am glad that you noticed an improvement in your "muscle".
It is the proof that you have already gone far on this journey.

How far is it gonna lead us ? It is fascinating to think about it.

Now you are not that fapper anymore. You changed. You are not that person that would fap when they feel bad. You are a person that face their negative emotions.
The new you is taking over. Now, when you fap, it is an accident of the old you that unleashes for a moment.

I have noticed that in me.
Even after a relapse i regain momentum to start a streak again. Right away.
Whereas in the past, it would take me weeks to try again a streak.
But now i have switched from PMO being the norm and nofap abnormal, to PMO being awkward and abstinence being the norm.

Thank God.

Quote
Another thing that I want to say: The city has "TRIGGERS" written in capital letters all over it. For a P addict, this is suffocating. Too much "softcore P" disguised as advertisements everywhere I fucking look. At the same time, girls look so uninteresting because they are not on a screen. Their skin looks so "weird", so unappealing. I feel no interest to engage with them. Ha! It makes me laugh like the Joker from the new movie. I am stimulated by advertisements but not by real girls. This is the true definition of P addict, man. Only 7 days won't turn things upside down but I'll get there.

I appreciate your cold and realistic outlook on life  :)

Probably that in the past, you did not even acknowledge those things.

The nofap journey is just to see reality as it is.

Harsh.
But TRUTHFUL.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on October 01, 2019, 02:20:46 PM
Arthur, as always, thanks for investing time and energy into checking me out. I appreciate it.

You know, I used to be a person who when things failed I hardly could get back at it. But this was also a reason why for many years I kept failing my recovery. After a relapse I would be defeated. But, one day I had a new perspective about it. I said: "You know, I have enough knowledge about how to approach this. I've been reading and watching stuff. I am no expert but I know more than a few years ago, that's for sure." This gave me a new perspective. Now I said instead: "If I still relapse it means I'm not there yet. There are still things that are not alright. Maybe this relapse is even necessary for me to learn. Relapse after relapse until I know everything. As much as those relapses suck, they teach me. The idea is that now I have a plan. It's not perfect, it can't be, I am no expert but I have a way to approach this. What I have to do is to tweak the plan. Eventually one day it will really work. So, a relapse is not the end of the world. It teaches me stuff. There is no point in getting depressed about it because I have my plan. I will analyze the situation, add to the list the new tweak and start again. Those cycles eventually should lead to me knowing everything about this and then everything should start working". This changed everything for me. It moved me from being a guy defeated after every relapse, feeling miserable, drinking and stuff, to someone who has a plan, a goal, a vision, and tweaks things to reach it one day. It rearranged my life. Now, this is not a success formula for everyone. I feel it's what works for me. I have this feeling inside me that this is it. I encourage everybody to find their way.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: BlueHeronFan on October 01, 2019, 05:50:28 PM
Good stuff getting through a week! I'm excited that you're seeing that it's getting easier to rebuild a streak now. This is why, like you said, it's so important to remember that giving up is the only true failure.

Maybe you'll managed to just up and quit completely one day, but that doesn't seem super realistic. More likely, as you keep doing what you know you should do and commit to a new lifestyle, your relapses will just farther and farther apart and eventually fade into memory.

Keep fighting, keep winning, one day at a time!
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Arthur2 on October 01, 2019, 05:55:21 PM
However, there is a danger of considering the relapse as a learning opportunity, in that you may start subconsciously to see it as a good thing.

If you think you learn from every relapse, there is the danger of seeing it as a good thing in a way.

I know for me relapses have taught me the same thing over and over again, and by now i should know but i dont apply correctly.
Because learning is one thing. Applying is an other.

The plan is never gonna be perfect to the t, but we can do it today anyway.
Our knowledge should be sufficient by now.
At least the intellectual knowledge.
Then there is the deeper knowledge of something that you practice a lot. And you learn by repetition, and in our case, ny suffering the withdrawals.

You are on a good streak. This could very well be the last streak.
You could be free today for life.

Why would you not ?
Why would you relapse again ?
At day 10 ? At day 12 ? At day 40 ?
No !
You dont have to.
My point is that if you are subconsciously waiting for your method and understanding to be perfect, you will wait till the cows come home.

I understand what you are saying and of course every relapse should teach us things, but at the same time we dont have to relapse.

Because eventually the goal is still to overcome addiction for good and get rid of it for good (even though we know that there is always gonna be a potential danger).

 The goal is to not relapse, and relapse is still a failure.

A good streak that you got here.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Arthur2 on October 01, 2019, 05:59:23 PM
But blueheronfan is right :

With the relapses getting farther and farther away from one another, they will eventually fade.

Every day without poison is good.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on October 02, 2019, 03:56:15 AM
Arthur, I understand what you mean. It's not like I love relapsing but if I still relapse it means that I'm not there, something is not right. That's why I see a relapse like a teaching opportunity. Of course we need to apply what we learn so let's apply it. Sometimes you can relapse a few times in the same way but we really need to make an effort to get out of this circle of repeating the same mistake. Take me for example and my drinking. One of the relapses thought me I should've quit drinking. Now I need to really apply this because I will relapse over and over again because of drinking if that's what I really want to do. Of course I don't want to relapse anymore at all.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on October 02, 2019, 03:57:26 AM
Good stuff getting through a week! I'm excited that you're seeing that it's getting easier to rebuild a streak now. This is why, like you said, it's so important to remember that giving up is the only true failure.

Maybe you'll managed to just up and quit completely one day, but that doesn't seem super realistic. More likely, as you keep doing what you know you should do and commit to a new lifestyle, your relapses will just farther and farther apart and eventually fade into memory.

Keep fighting, keep winning, one day at a time!

I get it.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Arthur2 on October 02, 2019, 05:34:14 AM
I remember how you hate relapsing.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on October 02, 2019, 05:48:25 AM
I remember how you hate relapsing.

I hate relapsing for sure.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on October 02, 2019, 06:03:37 AM
Day 8

I just joined the "Sober October" challenge on reddit nofap. I mean, I'm not there but I'm in it. I want to go all this October without P, PMO and MO. Peace.

Update: Today I was this close. Fucking addiction is suffocating at times.
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Free-man on October 02, 2019, 07:29:45 AM
hahah I like sober october term!
Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on October 02, 2019, 09:22:54 AM
hahah I like sober october term!

 :D

Title: Re: "Hard Mode" is the best "Mod"
Post by: Lero on October 03, 2019, 03:59:12 AM