Reboot Nation

Journals => Ages 20-29 => Topic started by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 12, 2019, 06:15:42 PM

Title: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 12, 2019, 06:15:42 PM
Hey everybody, I came pretty far in my recovery and have no been on this forum in awhile, but unfortunately have had several lapses. Last night and this morning being the worst. I am rededicated and it already seems like a long time ago. The lapses were really my fault. I found what works to beat this, and stopped doing it just a bit too early.

I almost felt a bit ashamed to come back to the forum with the same screen name, as I just wanted to have this done in one journal (I previously had one) but hell, it is what it is. I have found things that work very well to keep me away from my past compulsive masturbation, porn and fantasy behaviors, it's just a matter of keeping them up for a bit longer, and keeping some of them a permanent part of my life.

An issue I have, is I tend to like to pretend I don't have problems. I DO NOT want to turn into a cry fest woah is me type of deal. But maybe it does not hurt to ask for additional support and advice... so especially for guys who have successfully beaten this I would appreciate a bit of tips and encouragement. 

Additionally I find calling friends helps me with other issues, so I may look into an accountability partner/ network as well.

A bit about me:

I had no idea this was an issue for years, but my dick did not work. I was this awkward guy, but I busted my ass to learn to be able to date women. I never became great but managed to get several women in bed, all with my dick not working. A mentor/friend told me about your brain on porn .com and to stop watching porn and masturbating. ( I was I think 23 at the time) and for the first time I really enjoyed sex just two weeks later! Unfortunately the chaser effect got me and I'd go back and forth. Eventually I totally quite masturbating to porn. about 3 years ago now! But I would still look at it and masturbate after....

I had a little bad luck... I had a girlfriend who I engaged with porn induced fetishes with, that set me back and actually started giving me my PED again! I cut that out, things were going swimmingly, I was stepping it up and then I was trying to cut out fantasy of my porn induced fetishes, the withdrawal was strong but I was doing it! I decided to sign up for a 12 step program (sex addicts anonymous) for support......

I was in it but not that "into it" but over and over I heard "you are powerless" "you can not control your actions etc." and was pressured into doing all this crazy stuff. Like feeling powerless and praying and stuff and I relapsed!!!!! I stayed in the group and got worse and worse.... it was the opposite of recovery!!! Instead of rationally building discipline and changing the habit, it made it far worse as when you tell yourself you can not control your addiction it gets worse!!! How foolish I was to be in that group. (In the group they teach you the only way is 12 step, I did research and find 12 step actually has a super low success rate, but they brainwash people into talking it up).

Anyway, I left the group, it took my years to get to a 30 day streak again, as I had lost quite a bit of discipline and stopped dating which hurt me bad! (rewiring was huge!) Now I have had several streaks like that, but recently have moved cities and started lapsing about twice a week. No matter that is all in the past, what has worked for me of recent, I will simply rationally work on more of that.

Smart recovery (not meetings the manual) - A science based program, it really helps me get rid of all the bs I learned in 12 step. It's simple, you focus on building motivation, writing out what is motivating you, and coming up with strategies to avoid things that bring about urges and to handle them when they show up. (pretty much similiar to what most of us are doing here). - When reading through that manual and working on the exercises for 30 min a day I never slipped. (So just do that till the habit is dead, stop being a lazy ass and skipping it until I slip again).

Journaling!- Journaling here helped me in getting my first 30+ days lapse free since I had been brainwashed into losing my willpower in the 12 step group.

7 steps of highly effective people- This book has a 30 day "be proactive challenge" essentially it's all about acting in spite of your feelings, go all out for 30 days. This really ups my willpower and control of my self.

Simply put I will implement these three things that have worked for me in the past, in order to really beat this once and for all. As well as asking for a bit more support and encouragement as that can not hurt. Therefore having a real like get rid of these lame ass compulsions super program lol.

Also, I moved to a warm great city, it's great for my mood. But I ought to be careful about looking at the women too much.

Anyway, thanks for reading, hope you all are having a great day!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Circle on March 12, 2019, 06:59:54 PM
Hey everybody, I came pretty far in my recovery and have no been on this forum in awhile, but unfortunately have had several lapses. Last night and this morning being the worst. I am rededicated and it already seems like a long time ago. The lapses were really my fault. I found what works to beat this, and stopped doing it just a bit too early.

I almost felt a bit ashamed to come back to the forum with the same screen name, as I just wanted to have this done in one journal (I previously had one) but hell, it is what it is. I have found things that work very well to keep me away from my past compulsive masturbation, porn and fantasy behaviors, it's just a matter of keeping them up for a bit longer, and keeping some of them a permanent part of my life.

An issue I have, is I tend to like to pretend I don't have problems. I DO NOT want to turn into a cry fest woah is me type of deal. But maybe it does not hurt to ask for additional support and advice... so especially for guys who have successfully beaten this I would appreciate a bit of tips and encouragement. 

Additionally I find calling friends helps me with other issues, so I may look into an accountability partner/ network as well.

A bit about me:

I had no idea this was an issue for years, but my dick did not work. I was this awkward guy, but I busted my ass to learn to be able to date women. I never became great but managed to get several women in bed, all with my dick not working. A mentor/friend told me about your brain on porn .com and to stop watching porn and masturbating. ( I was I think 23 at the time) and for the first time I really enjoyed sex just two weeks later! Unfortunately the chaser effect got me and I'd go back and forth. Eventually I totally quite masturbating to porn. about 3 years ago now! But I would still look at it and masturbate after....

I had a little bad luck... I had a girlfriend who I engaged with porn induced fetishes with, that set me back and actually started giving me my PED again! I cut that out, things were going swimmingly, I was stepping it up and then I was trying to cut out fantasy of my porn induced fetishes, the withdrawal was strong but I was doing it! I decided to sign up for a 12 step program (sex addicts anonymous) for support......

I was in it but not that "into it" but over and over I heard "you are powerless" "you can not control your actions etc." and was pressured into doing all this crazy stuff. Like feeling powerless and praying and stuff and I relapsed!!!!! I stayed in the group and got worse and worse.... it was the opposite of recovery!!! Instead of rationally building discipline and changing the habit, it made it far worse as when you tell yourself you can not control your addiction it gets worse!!! How foolish I was to be in that group. (In the group they teach you the only way is 12 step, I did research and find 12 step actually has a super low success rate, but they brainwash people into talking it up).

Anyway, I left the group, it took my years to get to a 30 day streak again, as I had lost quite a bit of discipline and stopped dating which hurt me bad! (rewiring was huge!) Now I have had several streaks like that, but recently have moved cities and started lapsing about twice a week. No matter that is all in the past, what has worked for me of recent, I will simply rationally work on more of that.

Smart recovery (not meetings the manual) - A science based program, it really helps me get rid of all the bs I learned in 12 step. It's simple, you focus on building motivation, writing out what is motivating you, and coming up with strategies to avoid things that bring about urges and to handle them when they show up. (pretty much similiar to what most of us are doing here). - When reading through that manual and working on the exercises for 30 min a day I never slipped. (So just do that till the habit is dead, stop being a lazy ass and skipping it until I slip again).

Journaling!- Journaling here helped me in getting my first 30+ days lapse free since I had been brainwashed into losing my willpower in the 12 step group.

7 steps of highly effective people- This book has a 30 day "be proactive challenge" essentially it's all about acting in spite of your feelings, go all out for 30 days. This really ups my willpower and control of my self.

Simply put I will implement these three things that have worked for me in the past, in order to really beat this once and for all. As well as asking for a bit more support and encouragement as that can not hurt. Therefore having a real like get rid of these lame ass compulsions super program lol.

Also, I moved to a warm great city, it's great for my mood. But I ought to be careful about looking at the women too much.

Anyway, thanks for reading, hope you all are having a great day!
welcome back to the forum, im in a similar situation as you. rebooted twice in my 20s and now struggling with relapses every 2 weeks or so. my pied hasnt come back yet but i know its just a matter of time if i dont cut it out!

but im staying strong. going to post here every say until im good again. good luck man, you can do it and werr all pulling for you
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 13, 2019, 12:14:57 PM
Thanks for the support! Great that you are catching it before your PIED comes back!!!! It's a reminder to always stay vigilant and go super super hard about cutting this shit out. It reminds me of how shitty it felt to be with a girl I really like and go soft, had that experience a few times, it was just awful..... in a way it is good to remember, remember those awful experiences as motivation to reboot and stay rebooted now rather than have to go through them again...

Really appreciate the support
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 13, 2019, 12:27:07 PM
Day 1 (Yesterday my relapse from the previous night extended to the next morning, that was before posting here). So anyway, I still consider yesterday a mostly good day. I got some work done that I had been procrastinating on that had scared me, I studied and I put a lot into reading positive books. That is something that has always been very powerful for me, put good stuff into my brain (reading and listening) and good stuff comes out later (thoughts and feelings).

I am grateful for a nice coping tool I used yesterday. I did not receive an answer to a phone call, and decided that the person on the other end hated me and then when I had an issue with a tech thing connected to them, that they had cancelled my account without telling me! (this all happened in my head based on a tech issue and a  non returned phone call). I was so mad and emotional it was insane. Anyway, luckily I thought I can choose to dispute this and I utilized the ABCDE tool, for disputing thoughts. I wrote out my beliefs and disputed them (how the fuck do I know any of this is true? I have had other wild fantasies like this that were wrong, so this one may be too...) I did not totally calm down, but was 70% calmer....

Turns out the call was returned Today (the next day) and the guy was super cool and handled my issue lol. Anyway, it's good to learn to be less dramatic etc.

I'll also mention I was quite "jumpy" yestarday I went for a walk and kept thinking I saw people and animals and shit when the wind blew the branches weird lol.... I'll just blame the porn on that, it just plain fucks the brain up. (So let's add feeling like a schizofrenic to a good reason to not use porn or masturbate (for me that has to go as well)

Today, I have the day mostly free. I planned it out. I had a lot of nightmares last night and slept a lot, but I am controlling myself well. Just taking good actions, like working out, working on smart, journaling here and getting some work done later.

Hmmm, that is it really for now. I am a bit excited at all the healthy things I am doing but also slightly worried, feeling a slight fear about my ability to cut out porn masturbation etc. forever.

BUT, I can build that confidence, by taking the right actions and reminding myself over and over at the end of the day, I can choose to keep my commitment and cut that shit out of my life!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on March 13, 2019, 07:41:56 PM
This is the place for support--welcome back! I know you asked for tips, but it looks like you have a lot of good resources and tips yourself. I'd love to know more about the things you do keep yourself moving forward. Relapses happen, but it's the quality of the progress in between that really counts.

I've been working lately on becoming a healthier person all-around. Stopping PMO is one thing, but I think it's only one symptom of larger problems that I'm working to figure out and address in healthier ways. It can be harder progress to measure, but I really feel like I'm making better progress than before.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 14, 2019, 09:55:10 AM
Thanks for the support and the encouragement! I definitely agree with how crucial it is to become a healthy person all around. Something suddenly came up so I am now behind in my day, just wanted to post here real quick with an update, but either tonight or tomorrow I will go more in detail about some of the things that are working for me and what I've learned about being a healthier person in general. 
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 14, 2019, 10:04:11 AM
Day 2
Okay, so as my last post suggested (directed at blue hero fan! So rushed I forgot to quote) I am super rushed but wanted to at least post in here quick. (somehow asked me a favor that was time sensitive so losing a few hours of my afternoon and gotta rush there, it's all good though).

Anyway, I am seeing the effects of my last lapse, some anxiety and bizarre thoughts. (I get quite a bit of negative ideas about people, in a way it feels like isolation feeds the addictive behaviors and the addictive behaviors encourage more isolation. But, I have been managing this stuff pretty well. Exercise is HUGE! The right type, things like jogging, swimming, yoga are the best a little lifting is good too. These things seem to really help clear the mind.

Disputing my thoughts is HUGE, I get these feelings that I am "certain" that somehow is a jerk out to get me or something, then once I dispute the thoughts it was the dumbest idea ever, like so in accurate. So, I will keep that up.

I read something cool today, I will try and post a screenshot of the page later. The book "the willpower instinct" talked about how people who are the MOST confident often fail at changing habits! This was an interesting insight, basically it seemed like a healthy fear of your bad habits and triggers is a good thing. This made sense to me as my lapses were caused by arrogance! "Ahhh, I am not gonna do it I can stay in bed even when not tired (huge trigger for me)" "aaahhh I am fine, I can skip working on exercises from smart" those are what led to my lapses. So this is a great insight, to know I can control this, but still to have a healthy concern and always being just a little bit vigilant. It also allays my fear of my losing some confidence at my last slip... I don't need to be perfectly confident, I just need to put in the work and be willing to pay the price to get rid of these bad habits.

Be willing to push through my feelings and do things if I don't feel like it. Be willing to work really hard to change habits and be willing to occasionally not sleep at night. (The silly rationalizations are like "oh you can't sleep, you gotta pmo to get to sleep" it's total bullshit cause normally I would sleep EVEN less, then if I had just stayed up and waited for the urge to pass. Anyways, maybe not the most organized post, in a big rush! Back tomorrow or tonight if I can. 


EDIT: (writing this about 7 hours later): Was feeling pretty bad for most of the day, but funny enough the thing that helps is just pushing through it. It's like, I can get work done and do things and feel a little "off" or do nothing and feel awful. This is motivation to cut this shit out of my life! It is REALLY REALLY important! Also, I notice a big pattern for me is, if someone does not answer a text message. I immediately come up with a whole story, I create a catastrophe in my mind.  I nearly always assume I am being ignored or the person is mad, so far I have been wrong EVERY SINGLE TIME.... So, it is good I am recording this and disputing my thought.

I did have a very good moment this morning, I meditated a lot and felt suddenly present, it was really nice. I have an extra 30 minutes, I am very tired but will do a light workout just for the serotonin and dopamine boost.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 14, 2019, 05:49:15 PM
This is the place for support--welcome back! I know you asked for tips, but it looks like you have a lot of good resources and tips yourself. I'd love to know more about the things you do keep yourself moving forward. Relapses happen, but it's the quality of the progress in between that really counts.

I've been working lately on becoming a healthier person all-around. Stopping PMO is one thing, but I think it's only one symptom of larger problems that I'm working to figure out and address in healthier ways. It can be harder progress to measure, but I really feel like I'm making better progress than before.
Thanks again for the encouragement! I highly recommend the smart manual... It's $10. Smart is an addiction recovery program. I don't like the meetings, but the manual is really good. It's about 1) building motivation 2) handling urges then (the stuff you are looking for) 3) changing thought patterns and habit and 4) replacing the addictive behaviors with healthier activities.

Here are some free helpful (for me articles)

For me something CRUCIAL is the ABCDE tool
https://www.smartrecovery.org/smart-recovery-toolbox/abc-crash-course/
And working on frustration tolerance, having an addictive behaviour often leads to/ is fed by low frustration tolerance:
https://www.smartrecovery.org/help-for-low-frustration-tolerance/

https://shop.smartrecovery.org/product/books/smart-recovery-handbook-3rd-edition/

Finally I think learning and exercise are two huge keys. Learning can replace the addiction and exercise literally changes the brain for the better.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 15, 2019, 12:58:57 AM
Now, being it's nearly 2:00 am where I am, you may be expecting something bad but actually I had a very good night! I will be off to bed soon but two key points.

1) Beware of "feel good cravings" two very attractive girls are renting the apartment next to me, we had a friendly convo, I wanted to hang out with them, my mind started to sort of think of wow it'd be fun to hang out... etc. --> Being very catious and aware of sexual thought is a good thing! Arrogance "I am just imaging stuff with real girls is fine" led to me relapses, it starts with that, then more intense fantasies then lapse.... No more! Just live in the real world, interact with girls avoid looking at their bodies. It makes for better conversations and a better chance of actually dating them anyway.... no girl dates a dude cause he is leering at her and fantasizing about a girl makes talking harder and makes me nervous. So glad I caught that.

2) Pushing through emotions is key! I went out with a very gung ho positive friend and was just social! I felt loads of anxiety (damn addiction) but pushed through and through and through literally for hours! But by the end of the night I had an amazing time, talked to guys and girls felt social and so much better and more motivated. What a lesson, it's wild. If I just push through feelings long enough, eventually they go away. I feel that pushing through until I broke through and actually FELT social. (The feeling followed the action.... long after actually it took awhile with many ups and downs) was a great step AWAY from the addictive behaviour breaking from isolation.

Another note on that, may sound odd but having prepared jokes and things to say was very helpful, I felt awful and non social, but when I had a prepared joke to say that I know consistently works, I could say it get a laugh and feel better. Worked quite well, celebrities do it (they usually have prepared cool stories and jokes etc. for talk shows which lowers nervousness, so why not me?

May not have time to post tomorrow AM. But I see how life feeds itself, being social fed my motivation and mood which I can parley into my work as well.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 15, 2019, 09:30:39 PM
Edit: Today was day 3 by the way

Hey everybody. Today had a few stressful events. Had a commuting issue that threw me off schedule. It really threw the schedule off pretty good. Oh well.

Also, in my city there are some crazy parties with shady characters happening and a lot of fights. It was really stressful even being out. There has been some violence and I am worried. Like "oh no, it's always gonna be like this, I love this city and it won't be the same". It really is very different than usual and much more than ever in the past. BUT, it was not this way a few weeks ago. (I live in a very touristy part of a touristy city). So I think I ought to calm down, it's one wild week, it will not necessarily (in fact it likely won't) always be like this.

Focus was shit this evening during mediation but at least I did it.

I don't "feel" like it BUT I 110% am going to spend 30 minutes working through my smart book before bed. Siggghhh. I have work tomorrow but hopefully Sunday can be a nice day to recharge. Also, I gotta look on the bright side, I did so much productive stuff yestarday and even did a lot of necessary things today. Support always apreciated (especially on a rougher day like today). hope you all have a good an PMO free weekend!

Edit: Some urges coming and going still BUT, happy that I consciously did healthy activities to overcome my stress and had a very nice 30 minutes or so of calm, then worked on smart and studied a bit! Happy with that.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 16, 2019, 08:04:13 PM
Day 4!
Today, you know I should say was good.... There were a few little stresses but my emotions were a lot more balanced then they were in the past. I am still ruminating about one thing so I will do a ABCDE for it.

Also, I saw a lot of women out today, and by the end of the day was looking at some of them. This is something for me to cut out. Maybe I can get away with it but why?

I had a HUGE victory last night. I had this compulsion to check my phone, I was so close to doing it... But I realized that that checking the phone was connected to my porn and masturbatiion habit seriously....

I'll compulsively check my phone, work myself into a state, want to look up a picture of girls cause I am lonely. It is a snowball effect. I wanted to check my phone so fucking bad, but I said "I can choose not to!" and I did not!!! I walked over shut my phone off and put it in a drawer and went to sleep without even looking at it again that night!

This was huge, as this, I know from experience, was the beginning of my big bad craving/urge that was going to be intense and I shut it down right at the very start and that made things far easier.

So, I'll always stay vigilant! Some wildness going on in my city, but I can perhaps uber to a different part of down to not be in the house all evening but avoid drunk people/ people fighting etc.

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on March 16, 2019, 08:23:15 PM
Thanks for posting those links--I'll be sure to give them a closer look when I have more time!

It really does sound like we're in a similar spot. I realized just the other day that I was looking at women around town, which isn't helpful to me or them. It's definitely something I've been working on.

Wow, you're right about the arrogance thing. Now that I think about it, I think I always run into trouble when I start thinking that I'm doing pretty good, that maybe I've finally got it under control. That's when disaster strikes. I've definitely been working on changing my mindset so that I can be confident but not overconfident, hopeful that I'll learn to manage this addiction but not to the point that I let my guard down.

Glad you're making progress--keep on going strong!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 17, 2019, 04:13:37 PM
Day 5. Hey everyone. I am happy to say I had some urges but have been handling them well. Taking the time to write and THINK is so critical, I am working on the smart book each day. I notice odd feelings like not wanting to commit to NOT looking at girls. It's like woah that is such an irrational feeling. I took like 10 minutes writing about it to make sure I thouroughly knew not to listen to that feeling.

Now it makes no sense, but at the time of the emotion it was this odd thing like, "I can't commit to not looking at girls! It's okay it's not pmo! What if I fail and look at a girl it'll discourage and trigger me". I took the time and came to the conclusion.

1) Looking at girls bodies is not helpful to my reboot and can lead to strengthened urges.
2) They are real girls, but I can not rationalize staring at their bodies..... leering at a girl won't get me dates or friends. How about actually TALKING to them? Looking at there faces, seeing them as people?
If I really want a full social and dating life, like I claim I do. I can't be compulsively looking at girls bodies, thats just not socially appropriate, learn to be comfortable and normal around women, this is necessary for dating and being social.


On that note, I originally came to write about noticing my habits, some bad ones! But, it is good to be aware.

I ended up in a long conversation with some girls today, at times they seemed interested at other times not, eventually it fizzled out. But it was a long fun convo....

As soon as I walked away, I CAUGHT myself starting to feel bad... I noticed, that I nearly ALWAYS do that, I have a social interaction, it's pretty good and as soon as it ends, I make myself sad and regretful about it for one reason or the other. My mind is like honing missel trying to find everything that went wrong.

It is bizarre, but I am glad that I noticed it! If I am aware of this tendency it is weaker and I can change it.

I remember reading once that "depression takes lots of work", this really hit home! I notice my mind is going through quite a bit of gymnastics to turn something into a negative and find the negative. This is a wake up call, I am becoming aware that... honestly I am a far more negative person than I thought I was. I am gregarious and normally keep it inside, but internally I really do focus on the negative and look for it for more than I knew.... this is not a bad thing.... because if my mood is say a 4 or a 5 out of 10 now on average, when I take the time to change these negative habits perhaps it goes up to a 6 or 7 (which is pretty good! Aiming to always be deliriously happy is unrealistic in my opinion).

So anyway, I am glad I caught myself doing this, it is a definite pattern after many interactions, beating myself up. I really am going to be aware of this and make efforts to retrain my mind to look for the positive, be less hard on myself and have more realistic expectations. (Having a friendly convo with 4 girls I never met is actually really good! What is my mind thinking, like if they don't all beg me to hang out or party or hook up with them that it was a big loss? makes no sense).

As I wrote this I also realized, I had WANTED to interact with girls and humanize them instead of staring at there bodies. That is exactly what I did! I looked away very close to every time I caught myself looking at womens bodies and had long conversations with women just what I planned! So this is a big win and should be thought of as a positive!

About to eat some healthy food, and plan the rest of my day i suppose I actually have a good bit of free time which I haven't had too much of lately. (In part due to my own poor planning)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on March 17, 2019, 08:41:36 PM
Good insights, man!

I know exactly what you mean about feeling bad about social interactions after the fact. I always find myself feeling really weird and stressed after sending an email, writing a text, etc. After a few minutes, I ask myself, Why do I feel so weird? And then I realize, Oh, it's just because I sent an email. Like it's not a rational thing, just some kind of weird reaction I have to putting myself out there in any way. Just something to be aware of and work on, I guess.

I also get not wanting to commit to not looking at girls like that. I was listening to something recently about how our addictions are our mind and body's way of taking care of us in response to some distress. It's not a healthy response, but it still comes out of some impulse to take care of an unfulfilled need. Part of what I've been thinking about is what "positive" I get out of my addiction. And, frankly, the positive is that it gets me away from stress for a period of time (it is worse after, but that's still the motivation most of the time, I think). So, to make it shorter, it makes sense that you don't quite want to just up and commit because looking at women or porn does provide some benefit (a rush of dopamine that fills some gap in life). The trick, I guess, is to recognize what benefit the addiction provides and then to find healthier ways to find the same benefit. For me, that's involved slowing down the pace of my life, taking time out to meditate when my emotions get too intense, and just trying to take care of myself physically and emotionally so I deal with stress in a better way than zoning out to porn. So, I'd ask, what do you get out of leering at girls that you might be subconsciously reluctant to give up--and how can you get a similar benefit in a healthier way?

I don't know if that makes a lot of sense. I've only started thinking about it recently, but it feels like an important thing for me to understand.

Stay strong!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 17, 2019, 10:26:49 PM
Good insights! I may get back to you on that answer and do some thinking about it honestly. But I have some ideas. You know what, on second thought it ties in to what I came here to post about.

I thought I had a date for Tuesday but it fell through. I was a little annoyed about something it looking forward to it was buoying me up a bit. I took good care of myself today for the most part, so the emotions are actually a bit less intense than usual!

You know, I think a big big part of the addiction is, it's, as you said an escape a way to be sexual that is always there. Anytime you can go find a woman and look at her body. But the real world of being social and dating is messy and I can get frustrated. This does not mean to avoid it, it is something for me to work on.

I was quite excited to go on a date with this girl and was using it to look forward to and relax, then suddenly she cancelled very finally and aggressively. I feel pretty okay now, but in the past I'd feel very very upset.

So, I think that is it. Me wanting to use socializing and relationships and sex as a thing that is always there to boost me up, loose myself etc. but those things don't work that way. You can't control other people sometimes they are frustrating. So the replacement is the stuff I've been doing. Yes, I want to be social and I don't want to isolate myself. But it is necessary to have fun activities that nourish me and calm and rejuvenate me that I can do no matter what that are within my control.

Also here is the positive, really I made a mistake in setting the date up with this girl, and she made it very very clear what it was. I got a bit romantic on the text, saying we could walk along the beach. This is NOT a movie, that is actually a bit weird and made things too formal for her (we don't know each other well). I have learned from great teachers dates with women should never feel like a big deal. In early dates a girl does not want a geeky guy in a button up shirt giving her flowers, she wants to do something cool and it all to seem like no big deal to him. At least my generation and experience. Oh well lesson learned. I want to check my phone again but I can choose not too! Going to not check any more messages, eat some healthy food study a little bit and ready some good books until I sleep!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on March 17, 2019, 10:45:02 PM
Hey man, that's awesome that you're managing your emotions and thoughts so well, keep it up! I love the insight that you can't control other people; all we can do is accept what others do and control what we can control (ourselves). While I know being alone isn't ideal, things could be worse; isolation could actually be insightful in small doses, especially if you are doing something fulfilling and fun, such as reading something enjoyable, meditating, pursuing other interests, etc. try to enjoy our own company (if that makes any sense haha)

I wouldn't worry too much about getting a girl too quickly- the process will become easier and more enjoyable as you go farther along your streak, if you focus on improving yourself more the attraction will become very natural and organic!

As far as casual first dates, my best experiences have been at bars and concerts :)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 18, 2019, 03:58:59 PM
Thanks bro! Thanks for the support, and that totally makes sense about the doses of being alone. Definetly going to keep that in mind and work on that. Sounds good, I'll be patient up the streak, improve myself let the dates happen as I progress. Important for me to be reminded of that right now. Good call, going to invite to a bar next time.


Hey man, that's awesome that you're managing your emotions and thoughts so well, keep it up! I love the insight that you can't control other people; all we can do is accept what others do and control what we can control (ourselves). While I know being alone isn't ideal, things could be worse; isolation could actually be insightful in small doses, especially if you are doing something fulfilling and fun, such as reading something enjoyable, meditating, pursuing other interests, etc. try to enjoy our own company (if that makes any sense haha)

I wouldn't worry too much about getting a girl too quickly- the process will become easier and more enjoyable as you go farther along your streak, if you focus on improving yourself more the attraction will become very natural and organic!

As far as casual first dates, my best experiences have been at bars and concerts :)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 18, 2019, 04:10:00 PM
Day 6

A little update. Last night I was a bit unhappy with, but honestly I don't think I really should be. I caught myself fantasizing about a girl for a bit in bed and I very briefly saw my mind go and fantasize about some porn induced fetishes, luckily I pulled my mind away each time. But man did it take effort. I ended up I believe dreaming about some sex and porn fetishes, I woke up feeling like I had broken my streak and bit down... But, our dreams we can not control, so no reason to be upset about it. It's all part of moving forward.

HOWEVER, I did realize. I could of handled my cravings better. For me I MUST, when I get cravings in bed at night, get out of the bed and do something else, even if for just a minute and repeat it until it goes away or I fall asleep. My most dangerous trigger is laying in bed at night.

I also realize, analysis is good but some parts of this are not about analysis. I just have to be tough. I can't analyze my way out of everything, sometimes it is just fucking hard and I gotta do it cause I want to heal BAD and gotta remind myself of that. NO matter how tired I am if I see my mind going to fetish fantasy I gotta get the hell out of the bed immediately or I am fucked, I know this from experience. So next time it happens, (prob tonight honestly, having urges and thoughts today) I am getting the hell out of bed. As if a snake were in the bed.

I can't analyze my way out of it, occasionally I will have a night with little sleep, just hopping out of bed or not being able to be in bed as it is too triggering. But the magic is, I lost wayyyy more sleep acting on it. If I engage in the fantasy I stay up all night anyway but fantasizing or PMOing and then I get insomnia for other nights too. So I do have to accept that part of this, is just not always sleeping perfectly, but everyone has bad nights of sleep here and there and in the long run I'll still get more sleep.

But to reiterate, something important to my recovery is the DECISION and commitment, that I am willing to stay up all night until a craving subsides. Just be willing to do that and not be a wimp who doesn't want to get out of bed when tired even when an addiction is literally on its way to basically screw my life.

In other news, pretty good day today. Hectic day at work but I felt I performed fairly well. Did a slighly lengthened meditation to ground myself, for the first time in 4 days or more my visualization was excellent and focused so I felt far better after. Also I squeezed in a little extra workout even thought I "had no time today". The rest of the day should be good, a few things to do and yoga which makes me feel great (I never ever want to go but I almost always feel soo much better after, it makes my body feel good gets rid of tension I didn't know I had and this in turn makes my mind feel good and calm too, at least for awhile)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 18, 2019, 04:50:19 PM
Short time ^ accurate up there. Some strong cravings in waves. Probably going to be a hard evening and night. Its okay just gotta be prepared. Today is going to be about fighting the addiction, I am ready. The cravings comes, go to something else, over and over and over. It's not the hardest thing in the world. People have run 100 miles without stopping, crossed deserts etc. It is what it is. Going to look at this as a good thing, each time the urge pops up and I do a healthy activity instead, I am weakening the addiction weakening those bad wires in my brain
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on March 18, 2019, 07:27:55 PM
Hang in there, man! This is where it really counts, and it's great to hear that you're approaching this wave of urges with a specific plan. Stick to your guns, and don't let these urges talk you into something you'll regret!

Best of luck with the night. I'm rooting for you!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 18, 2019, 10:29:27 PM
Thanks bro! I will stay vigilant, but I am happy to report that after around 4 hours of socializing and physical activity the urges have nearly entirely subsided! I came here to post about something else and nearly forgot how strong they were before.



Doing one of my activities, I decided I had an enemy lol. I pick a little something that someone seems to have done to me, and decide they hate me and they treat me differently from anyone else. I just had my mind on this person and being annoyed with them, later on they started talking to me and were super nice........ I went as far as wanting to quit going to this place and burn a bunch of bridges.

It shows me goodness, I have such large large holes in my mindset and thoughts and just ability to socialize with people. I just get upset too easily and have these wildly irrational self-sabotaging thoughts that make me want to isolate myself and quit things that are good for me. I am not writing this as a woah is me. I actually feel good that I am aware of this and how irrational my thoughts are and happy that I have not been acting on them. It is massive room for improvement just keep recoring them and disputing them over and over, meditate stay sober etc. when these are gone, wow my life will be a lot easier and better
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 18, 2019, 11:06:08 PM
Just to record so I do not forgot. I was going to write this the other day, if only I can learn to apply my brains creativity and intelligence to perhaps business or solving a world problem and not to creating urges and triggers lol. My brain can make the wildest connections to create an urge. Here is what just happened.

I am reading a book about a climber, he mentioned he never saw snow until he was 12 and it created his enthusiasm for climbing. Well, I thought there are everygreen trees in snowy areas. Oh everygreen trees, I was talking to this family at work and making small talk, I pointed out a tree that looks like an everygreen tree, that one girl agreed with me.. omg her body wow... etc. My mind wanted to jump right into fantasy land but I was well aware of it.

And all that happened in probably half a second.

My two hours of being urge free was nice while it lasted lol. At least not as intense I'd say a 4 outta 10.
Book about a climber-> Tree-> fantasize about girls body and the connections all make sense in my mind lol. I had one far crazier one yestarday, like my mind moved a few letters around of something I read and made sound like someone I saw in porn, what creativity, maybe once I get clean of this I should start looking for hidden patterns in the stock market..... lol
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 19, 2019, 08:08:12 AM
Day 7 I think? ( or 8? wil correct later).

In a rush only have a minute. So my "ohh great I feel better now, no cravings!" post was wrong lol. As I originally assumed had some strong cravings. Woke up feeling like fried shit. BUT reminding myself had I PMOed or something it'd be WAY worse, literally aside from my disappointment I would have slept even less and my brain gets all fucked up like straight up depression.

Mind kept going in to fantasy I think I could have stopped it sooner but I was pulling myself out of it every couple of seconds. I had one period where I was thinking about kissing a girl for maybe 2 minutes which even that I should have cut out. I did as I planned getting out of bed. The tough part was I woke up every few hours with strong cravings! I'd be half asleep and wake up and have like half a second to stop my mind. I woke up in a crazy sweat a few hours after falling asleep, then again at 4:00 am, the breakthrough was at 4:00 couldn't get rid of my cravings so I left my apartment and walked around for awhile, this was like a reset and get rid of it mostly.

Then I studied and finally fell back asleep. It was hard it kind of sucked at first, but I just got out of bed and didn't try to force myself to sleep it was much better. So this is how I ought to treat the crazy cravings at night... just treat them as insomnia. Don't try and force self to sleep just chill about it and LEAVE the apartment (if needed or as a step 1) then do other stuff like study until I get tired again. (Reading in bed is nice but not enough the thoughts and fantasies come in strong, must be prepared to leave the bed.)

I think tonight'll be easier but I still know what to do if the cravings come, I'll leave the apartment way sooner as that ended it far more easily it just like broke the pattern. 
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 19, 2019, 02:11:11 PM
Mostly good and some bad. Getting through those cravings last night seems to have rewarded me with feeling good today. Just far calmer then before not super happy just contented, calm and content is actually a really nice feeling and has been a rare one for me. Not that I am always sad but my positive states tend to errr on the side of excited. Felt quite calm, great reminder to always push through, it feels better later.

The bad: I napped it was great (had unexpected free time) I started on my tiny couch it was uncomforable so I went in bed, I felt slight urges popping up. I woke up, tried to nap more and I fantasized a little bit about some women I knew and a past girlfireind. The fantasy was mostly stuff that happened and just regular sex and intimacy but still, I want to cut that out. I could see it triggering me. AND, not sure if I mentioned for me I used to go like into a trance fantasizing for hours about some of my fetishes. I consider it part of the addiction, so for me, fantasizing while in bed about sex is a gray area. Maybe I don't consider it breaking my streak but, I want to be quite careful. And why not live in reality? I am alone in bed, I want to learn how to really be able to enjoy that time, reading perhaps thinking about my day, thinking about space who knows....

My brain has brained trained that bed is a time that is almost purely sexual in a twisted lonely way (imagining women there porn etc.) That is NOT the same as actually being with someone. BUT being present and happy when alone will if anything make it better if I am dating a girl. The separation between fantasy and realitie worlds is important.

One good thing was, I had the urge to fantasize about some porn induced fetishes an image that has been haunting me and a strong trigger popped into my head. I thought of it and gained some clarity, this fetish and fantasy is not even really sexual if I think about it.... Like it doesn't even make sense and is so far from reality....

That was nice and lost me the urge, it was like wait, what am I actually thinking? So thats some progress. But still time to be cautious and not replace that with fantasizeing obsessively about real sex. Compulsions, especially for me and sexual ones are never good


EDIT: Okay enough posting for today. Just s simple commitment. The rest of today and the three days following no conscious sexual fantasizing AT ALL. Simple, not let things get out of hand. Make the commitment and decision now, not have to think about it.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 20, 2019, 12:01:29 PM
Day 7 (8?) My organization could use a lil work lol.

Feeling pretty good. I can do a lot more than I thought. Like my posts last few days were like "my mind started thinking about sex". I decided not to do that and the second I even thought about thinking about thinking about sex I shut it down and got along with my day.

Saw some attractive women, my reaction was far less inense. i was like "oh niice, oh wait look away". Rather than like my heart racing etc. No sex thoughts nor foreplay either. Just enjoy my day think about other things.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on March 20, 2019, 08:16:19 PM
Just catching up on your journal now--keep it up! I recently caught myself looking at women throughout the day and using them as like light porn. I had never realized it before, but it was definitely a trigger for me. Something I'm working on, and it's good to hear you are too.

Also your experience reading is relatable to me. I don't know how many times I've been reading a book when my brain thought it saw a sexual word somewhere else on the page, so my eyes darted there only to see some other word that was spelled differently. Our brains do crazy things to us, but it's cool that we're becoming more aware of it. There's no way to get back in control without first becoming aware, so I think it's a great thing to recognize
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 20, 2019, 10:56:11 PM
Great point! Good way to look at it.... the awareness is huge. Meditation is helping me.

My update: Had a good day, felt sad on way home, very early "I need a woman" feeling- which is really the very early start of a craving im0. But honestly reading others posts and replying to support has me forgettting about it. I can just rest up and enjoy a nice book until I go to bed, if I have energy maybe I'll pop in a local bar but probably not. Tomorrow I am going out though, would like to socialize a bit.

Just catching up on your journal now--keep it up! I recently caught myself looking at women throughout the day and using them as like light porn. I had never realized it before, but it was definitely a trigger for me. Something I'm working on, and it's good to hear you are too.

Also your experience reading is relatable to me. I don't know how many times I've been reading a book when my brain thought it saw a sexual word somewhere else on the page, so my eyes darted there only to see some other word that was spelled differently. Our brains do crazy things to us, but it's cool that we're becoming more aware of it. There's no way to get back in control without first becoming aware, so I think it's a great thing to recognize
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on March 20, 2019, 11:29:41 PM
That's awesome that you're meditating, I need to start doing that every day as I've been only doing it 2-3 times a week. It seems like you did a good job of applying awareness to negative emotions, as feeling sad is a very natural, normal thing for all humans, and you were able to turn that feeling into helping others on this forum and doing what's best for you!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 21, 2019, 01:08:55 PM
Thanks bro! Today has been pretty tough. Very anxious and confused mind all over the place, been obsessing over whether to go try a new hobby or not (is it too much, do I have enough time?). Pretty irrational thoughts as I could go just today and don't need to take this hobby on forever by trying it once lol. Anyway, yeah thats pretty much it, pretty bad withdrawal.

I should note: what my mind is telling me is, 1) I don't have time to go to this activity 2) I need to go and talk to girls instead.

I should note: Yes I do want to socialize more and put more into my dating life and skills with women. But, when I was feeling good I badly wanted to do this hobby, now when I have bad withdrawal and urges, and feel crazy my brain is telling me. You have to skip the hobby! And, you should go looking for women (likely a bad idea in this state and to impulsively do what, find a girlfriend walking around a mall???). That is very irrational, it's basically a setup, feel desperate for female attention and go try and get it in a sure to fail way and then go home feeling terrible and super triggered. It's almost like a setup by the addiction... man I am glad I posted as I did not notice that until now.  So I still feel nuts but may as well trust the decision I made when I was at my best, go do the hobby. Try it out and see how it goes, no commitments. AND I will go out tonight to socialize and can talk to girls then, in a PLANNED and rational way.

My commitment:
Go do the hobby
Go out and socialize for at least an hour tonight
Do my 30 minutes of working on the smart book.
THAT is it- I have more I want to do, but will consider anything else icing on top for today. (I feel quite overwhelmed, so am simplifying and keeping the main commitments and the crucial (daily smart workbook)


quote author=pichaelthompson link=topic=16884.msg172761#msg172761 date=1553142581]
That's awesome that you're meditating, I need to start doing that every day as I've been only doing it 2-3 times a week. It seems like you did a good job of applying awareness to negative emotions, as feeling sad is a very natural, normal thing for all humans, and you were able to turn that feeling into helping others on this forum and doing what's best for you!
[/quote]
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on March 21, 2019, 08:21:02 PM
Sounds like a good plan!

Meditation has been a huge part of my recovery the last two years or so. It has made a huge difference, especially lately. One of the things I've been realizing it that there is time. Sometimes I want to rush and do everything now, but I'm trying to realize that it's okay to do things one at a time.  (I think the wanting it now is part of what fuels my addiction, and I'm thinking about how that impatience affects other parts of my life.)

I guess what I'm saying is, based on what feels right for you, don't worry about only focusing on your hobby and recovery now. Socializing is an important step probably, but maybe it doesn't have to come right now.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 22, 2019, 12:18:24 AM
You hit the nail on the head right there.... I was quite stressed, part was cravings I bet, but a large part of it, was I was trying to do too much. Honestly the hobby WAS a mistake, that was actually correct. I already have re take up an old hobby, have a new hobby AND want to socialize more and am doing a lot of career stuff. That is already almost too much! One thing at a time, constant new hobbies wouldn't be all that rewarding, going to appreciate what I am already doing.

Update: Feeling much better, I don't feel good but I am sort of happy. A bit proud of myself that I pushed through and did some good actions I did not want to do. I did look at women's bodies a bit today, but kept my mind clear. Looking forward to a nice night of sleep and a even better day tomorrow : )


Sounds like a good plan!

Meditation has been a huge part of my recovery the last two years or so. It has made a huge difference, especially lately. One of the things I've been realizing it that there is time. Sometimes I want to rush and do everything now, but I'm trying to realize that it's okay to do things one at a time.  (I think the wanting it now is part of what fuels my addiction, and I'm thinking about how that impatience affects other parts of my life.)

I guess what I'm saying is, based on what feels right for you, don't worry about only focusing on your hobby and recovery now. Socializing is an important step probably, but maybe it doesn't have to come right now.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 22, 2019, 08:08:19 AM
Edit: Day 10 today!

Woke up feeling pretty awful, went back to bed to rest. But caught myself saying "I am horny" over and over feeling desparatly "horny". That is an urge right there.... Glad to have gotten out of bed and post here again.

Perhaps I ought to be more careful about looking at girls, was around quite a few last night and that contributed for sure. Also I may have been over ambitious with the schedule I created for myself, could of used a bit more sleep.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on March 22, 2019, 11:45:25 AM
Nice job! Perhaps your schedule may have been too much, but in my opinion it's better to over-exert yourself and then find the balance after adjusting than being lazy/giving into urges, like lifting too many weights....your muscles might be sore after but they will definitely be alot stronger!

Unfortunately, we live in a world of instant gratification so we expect instant results from the positive changes we make. Sometimes we do not see things getting better day by day, but in the long run we can look back and realize all our suffering was well worth it :)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on March 22, 2019, 07:23:02 PM
Exactly--just keep at it, adjusting as you go. I got back into bread-baking recently, and even when you have all the ingredients mixed together, you still have to give it time to rise. I really think recovery is like that. Even for all that we're trying to do, time is a part of the healing process, and I have to keep reminding myself of that when progress feels slow.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 22, 2019, 10:49:05 PM
Thanks for the support guys. Sorry if this post is not too informative. Man, I feel pretty bad today. I guess this is withdrawal and could not be considered anything else. Before this journal I had some really bad slips every few days, so I guess this is what happens.

Luckily I have held 95% of it in, but I have spent a good portion of the day ruminating on things, being ludicrously angry and feeling desperate to be dating and have female company. Goodness emotions are odd, in the moment, I can not imagine feeling happy and think the only thing that would make me happy is a girl with me, sex or something. But logically I know and can remember just a few days ago being totally happy and not even worried about whether I found a girl or not....

Well glad to write this as putting that on paper gives me perspective and helps realize this will pass....

I found that if all else fails intense exercise can get me through a lot of these emotions, so I may just accept over exercising for a few days here and there, being a little sore and physically tired won't kill me. Early I felt like a cross between strong anxiety and extreme anger, I quite in the middle of my visualizing as I was so furious that I heard a lawn mower outside. But then I just worked out hard, just for a few minutes and felt far better after.

Cardio vascular exercise seems the key, as a hack. If all else fails to get rid of some of these crazy emotions. I am very tired but may end up doing some tonight.

You know, that is a big win..... I had some of the strongest emotions I have had in a looonnngggg time and the way I handled it was to go exercise, it was almost instinct, that is a big win a healthy way to handle my emotions.

So I feel like shit and it's been very hard to see the big picture today, but I am still making progress. Still I must be vigilant an urge popped up even as I wrote that very sentence. I gotta remember, put in the work now. Often a night like this, the day after I will have a very lovely day as a reward for getting through it..

Edit: Sorry some grammar and spelling errors here, I am quite out of it. It's honestly almost interesting to me, I speak another language fairly well and literally spoke it to 25% of my ability awhile ago, couldn't have even a basic conversation the brain is such a funny thing.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 22, 2019, 10:51:50 PM
Good point, I have followed a schedule like this before but I simply have to put more effort into my reboot then in the past, so it's a lot. I think I will ask less of myself.... it could make things a hell of a lot easier.

Nice job! Perhaps your schedule may have been too much, but in my opinion it's better to over-exert yourself and then find the balance after adjusting than being lazy/giving into urges, like lifting too many weights....your muscles might be sore after but they will definitely be alot stronger!

Unfortunately, we live in a world of instant gratification so we expect instant results from the positive changes we make. Sometimes we do not see things getting better day by day, but in the long run we can look back and realize all our suffering was well worth it :)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 22, 2019, 10:53:17 PM
Great point! I feel like shit right now, but good to keep that in mind. So long as I am moving forward in time doing the right things, I am progressing. Even though at this moment, my brain is flipping out cause I feel about as bad as I did on day 0. But it's all part of the process.

Exactly--just keep at it, adjusting as you go. I got back into bread-baking recently, and even when you have all the ingredients mixed together, you still have to give it time to rise. I really think recovery is like that. Even for all that we're trying to do, time is a part of the healing process, and I have to keep reminding myself of that when progress feels slow.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 22, 2019, 11:07:04 PM
I need a rest tomorrow BUT I just remembered, having goals written out is huge to me. I stopped reading mine and they are a bit outdated. I am going to spend 30 min or an hour writing goals and aside from errands I must do. THAT IS IT. For tomorrow (plus my damn 30 min of smart lol.

So an hour of work, then just enjoy myself nap and read no burdens. Recharge
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 23, 2019, 10:46:29 AM
So, I made a bit of a mistake last night but it could have been far worse. In short I fantasized about porn and some of my fetishes last night, I am not sure for how long. Then I was fantasizing about sex with a past girlfriend (not nearly as bad).

This is not the absolute worst thing in the world, but still I do want to consider the fantasy about porn something of a lapse. BUT, I can see it is nothing like pmo. I came as close to looking at porn as is possible.

The good, is that I actually was able to fantasize and not pmo and actually eventually lost interest. It is also good that I DID NOT of course look at p or m which would have been a major disaster.

The bad is, this is not good for my recovery and is, perhaps a small step back. What is also bad, is I had the feeling that there is no way I could have stopped myself from doing it. I had this incredibly intense exhaustion I did get out of bed etc.

But thats not true, I could have done a bit better most likely. 1) Being more prepared- I felt horrifying during the day but did not recognize it as a strong urge, just was feeling crazy emotions. When I feel that way I should prepare myself for a tough night. Prepare mentally and decide in advance I may not sleep.

2) As a few of you have said, I must soften my schedule a bit. I started a new job and it is more stressful then I realized.  Often when I am not working at something, I am mad at myself. Simply going to ease on myself, take more leisure give myself time for naps, tell myself I am allowed to nap rest and sleep during day. I'll have more energy to avoid urges at night and it'll be easier mentally to stay up all night if I need to, if I know it's okay for me take a long nap and not be productive all the time.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on March 23, 2019, 06:57:57 PM
Hang in there bro! I've been getting alot of urges too, for me it pops in my head and even if I dismiss it, it often comes back sooner than I expected. If I were to count all the minor urges, it could be upwards of 100x a day (or more). Just sharing to let you know you're not alone in this struggle, and we can always do positive and healthy things regardless of what happens in our head! I hope you can get some sleep, I understand it is hard when your thoughts are racing and you're emotional but do everything you can to calm your mind down. For me, it helps to go back to my meditation practice- I try to focus on my body sinking into the bed, notice all the physical sensations, as well as "hearing" the silence around me. Best of luck to you
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 25, 2019, 04:24:32 PM
Thanks bro! Just a real brief check in. I was still fanasizing a bit last few days. Some challenges going on and very off track. Will look to reset over the next coming days. At least I am PMO free!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on March 25, 2019, 06:56:09 PM
Hang in there, man, you're doing the right thing!

I think you're right that fantasizing isn't quite the same a full relapse but also isn't good. I know those fantasies, which have been coming in and out of my head the last couple days, are usually the first step towards a relapse. So it's good to be aware of them early and to find a way forward without relapsing.

We're all in this fight together, and we'll win in the end!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 26, 2019, 08:25:59 PM
Thanks Bro!

So, I had a few realizations recently. I was being waayyyyy too hard on myself. Trying to be perfect. Instead of doing everything right, do the things that really matter right.

That being said: I am resetting the clock. Today is day 2. For a simple reason. I have big issues with a very particular type of fantasy about porn induced fetishes. I did that for a few days. I need very specific things I am cutting out/ definition of clean.

No PORN No Masturbation No Self induced orgasm/ or anything self induced sexual like idk rubbing on something.
No engaging in porn induced fetishes. No fantasizing conciously about porn induced fetishes.

Fantasizing about real women and vanilla sex= separate. I may want to lower it/ not over do it. But It is CLEARLY NOT part of my addiction. I think trying to cut out 100% of sexual thoughts caused me problems.

So anyways. Not much to report. I feel a lot better. I barely fantasized about the porn induced fetishes two days ago and did not yestarday nor today. Feeling pretty good, attracted to real women. Not trying so hard to do everything. Not over analyzing. Just keeping it simple, cut out the addiction stuff and be soft on myself on other things.

I mean honestly: I have had no junk food in months, eating a perfect day by my standards (literally), I have been working out almost every day, I have not used the internet or streamed any shows only using it for useful stuff. (for months! (except for my brief lapes)). I am in a pretty good spot. I don't really even have any super unhealthy activities left.... I also have been doing well in my current hobbies.

So the key is handle the really important stuff and be softer on myself.
1) Better job
2) Everything else- just keep it up.

I was trying to do so much shit at once and be perfect. I got annoyed at someone today... but they were actually being annoying! Like even time I got irritated I viewed it as a big problem and was ruminating, for me the big problem was trying to be perfect I think.   
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on March 27, 2019, 01:07:33 PM
Sounds like a really good plan! It seems the simpler you make life the better, you can just flow from one thing to the next because you don't have to overthink anything. Keep it up!

BTW I've had to reset as well, I'm confident both of us will come back wiser and stronger
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on March 27, 2019, 07:46:10 PM
That does look like a great plan. I know the pressure of wanting to fix everything all at once, but that's just a sure way to get even more frustrated, which, for me, usually leads right to porn.

Recovery takes time, and we've got years of life still to live. I think there's a lot of wisdom in slowing down and doing fewer things more carefully instead of wearing ourselves out with a lot of stuff all at once (and failing at it all)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 27, 2019, 10:44:21 PM
Thanks guys! Great insights. Sorry to hear about the reset pichael, hopefully we can both come back better, as you said. It does not erase all of our progress.

Great point Blue..... it's like, for years there are so  many things I've wanted to do, it's all about patience. If I had focused on one for a year imagine how far i'd be....

Man, thats gonna be a big thing for me.... REALLY slowing down. Going with the flow a bit more.


Day 3: Had a pretty good day. Uneventful. I skimped on meditating for a few days earlier in week but did a bunch today and it was quite nice. Slept in a bit. Not gonna try and do too much at once. Tomorrow I am going to get up earlier, I have a few things to get done but may take the rest of the day easy. Build back up slowly.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 28, 2019, 03:20:15 PM
Day 4:

Solid day so far. Had some good meditation. Got some stuff done this morning, building up slowly.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on March 28, 2019, 08:09:27 PM
Awesome! Meditation is such a strength for me. Glad it's working for you too!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 28, 2019, 11:36:28 PM
Thanks! Making my focus smaller and focusing on having good quality meditation. It's good for that day but it compounds and will add up overtime.

Today, was a pretty good day. Got some stuff done, read a lot. Tomorrow I simply want to do a bit more. I was pretty tired may have a slight cold, if thats the case it is what it is, I'll take it easy for a couple days. If I don't have the cold then I'll do more tomorrow and especially Saturday.

The focuses will be: Work related study, apply to new jobs, more socializing. That is it and is plenty.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on March 29, 2019, 07:34:59 PM
Awesome. have a great weekend!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 29, 2019, 10:05:02 PM
Thanks bro!

I had a big realization, I stupidly have been doing fasting each week based on dumb crap I heard on the internet...... I am not overweight and have been like starving and lost muscle! I was wondering why I felt crappy a lot and this was it! Today I was starving at 11am and was not going to eat till 4, I talked to my mom and she is like this is so dumb. She was so right. Lesson learned: Solid healthy foods, no stupid fad diets. Anyway, I realize I've been at like 50% capacity since I have been starving myself lol. Ate a lot today and feeling better already.

So thats it for today, felt shitty but eating helped. Some lonliness but starting to take some more actions to socialize more and start dating again. Should set some goals, I'd like a date within two weeks, not a hard goal/deadline just me musing. I am confident I can do it. 
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 30, 2019, 10:24:37 AM
Feeling a good bit better for sure. Mood is up, finding it far easier to push aside cravings and thoughts. This morning I stayed in bed a bit resting and also fantasizing about real girls, this is something that I don't consider part of the addiction and is not the worst thing in the world but still I want to get up earlier tomorrow and not do that, as it really was just a waste of time. But again, not the end of the world. I am not going to try and cut out every sexual thought just the pmo and fetish fantasy.

My meditation was not too good this am, but thats okay. It is still good for me and will pay off later. Been skimping on workouts about to go do one!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 31, 2019, 12:32:39 AM
Hvaing an odd sort of craving, a craving to fantasize about my Porn induced fetishes not too strong but with this strong sense of complacency. Just sort of like.... a feeling of I am okay with fantasizing, I feel like doing it so I'll do it. It's cool to see that I actually totally control the action and can just not do it...

Luckily I decided to post here instead.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 31, 2019, 03:01:55 PM
Man, glad I made that post! I did NOT fantasize. Did not even fantasize about sex (not considered a relapse). I really enjoyed reading a book, it's nice I am seeing some changes for sure. I am sure ups and downs will come, but I am having moments where things are as I want. I really enjoyed reading in bed, found it a massive pleasure and got lost in it then slept well. I had some dreams just as I woke up about the fetish but it was mild, I may have even dreamed about having cravings, I am not sure. But Happliy, I got out of bed with my alarm and got back to reading.

For me reading is the BOMB. Like since I cut out bad habits I read my ass off, reading is my way of goofing off but it has none of the downsides of my other habits like youtube, pmo etc.

I also hung out with a girl today, I wanted things to go further, we got a little physical but she refused a kiss and I feel like things have fizzled at this point, reason being mostly that she is "seeing someone" back home. (She is here on vacation). But I still consider it a win, I enjoyed the time together, enjoyed real sexuality, as I touched her body a bit.

One of the coolest parts is, she is attractive, but I was not super attracted to her until I hung out with her for awhile and started to like her, then I was very attracted. This is huge! Because thats how my brain should be functioning.

So anyway, almost all good news, for today. Eating more is awesome. I notice I want to talk about what I should be doing, what I am doing wrong. But you know what, this is big for me, it's okay to just have a nice enoyable healthy day and accept and enjoy it, no changes or self analysis necessary.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 31, 2019, 05:05:37 PM
Just a few hours later.... so being seuxal with girls is good but can be a trigger! Just took a nap and was fantasizing about this girl a lot. Then had a thought go into my mind of fetish stuff... I immediately got out of bed! So this is good, it was a lot easier to stop it asap. Anyway, still gonna cut down on the sexual thoughts for the next couple of days, clear my head. Have a productive eveing. And watch myself, I am starting to rewire having better interactions with women, but the sexual feelings can let some of the addictive pmo thoughts start lurking around the corner, just gotta kick the pmo/fetish thoughts asses when they pop up!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on March 31, 2019, 08:15:22 PM
Glad you're staying clear of PMO! A big realization for me lately has been to notice all the ways that I've been reinforcing the addictive reward loop in my brain when I'm not using porn--staring at women on the street, on TV, etc. Even though those things aren't porn, I've realized that they do trigger me in that direction. So it's a good thing you're noticing how a healthier experience (not a relapse) might get your brain going in the wrong direction. But, hey, either way, you're making progress towards normal--and that's a huge win!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 01, 2019, 12:34:17 AM
Thanks bro! Yeah, it's just something I have to be aware of. I noticed in previous reboots, when I would finally get sexual with a girl I would end up in PMO fantasyland even with the girl right there! It was nuts.

But overtime it would mostly stop.


It's like the PMO thing is separate from real sexuality. But by some weird crossed up brainwires any sexuality can create a bit of an urge, but by avoiding pmo and rewiring (carefully!) the wiring returns to normal.

I went out with a friend and had a pretty bad night. It was odd, I believe every girl I spoke to had a bad reaction to me. Honestly, I bought a new shirt and my friend and I discussed it, it made me look super awkward and nerdy. I honestly think that was it, man how you dress is really really important. Like the shirt just made me look goofy.

Edit: I guess I can just be honest and say, I feel quite shitty right now. Just down and a bit hopeless. Really sad, and just this sense of hopelessness, it's a little strange. I am not going to fall asleep for awhile, I can feel and have a weak urge,  I literally can feel it in my crotch area, quite physical. Anyway, I am just gonna keep it simple. I prefer real books, but I found a funny ebook I'll read it for awhile and just forget the day. (remember it did start off great, just the night was bad. But my emotions don't feel that)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 01, 2019, 12:50:05 AM
Holy shit got a super strong urge just now. Vivid, just popped into my head
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 01, 2019, 08:27:22 AM
Well, I fetish fantasized, a bit last night then a bunch this morning. Catching it earlier is pretty important. So when I fantasized in bed about regular sex, that was a bigger problem then I realized MUCH bigger. If I am honest that was the turning point. I had a great day, had a good time with the girl, then I was tired and I decided to go in bed and fantasize about that girl. I realize fantasy about sex in bed is a big issue, I like go into a trance. So I really gotta cut that shit.

It was after that, my mood was totally different felt off and in hindsight, slightly triggered. Then had the really bad night and just wanted to fantasize. Funny how the mind rationalizes, I was like I shouldn't do this, it's a bad habit. Then the EXACT thought was "it's okay, I will never have a night this bad again so I will fantasize just for tonight".

PURE BULLSHIT: The night was not that bad.

I was on my couch reading with a strong urge, then got in to bed to read. I think I had already made a decision to fantasize awhile ago. I got a bit complacent, I was super tired. I think I needed to leave my apartment for a bit, maybe exercise. I was having a pretty easy time the last few days, so I simply was not prepared. AND I was triggered by the whole, feeling like I have no girls/ dating prospects mindset. Siggghhhh, well a lot to be learned here.

At least still PMO free, but gotta step it up with cutting out the fantasy AND remember just idk 20 hours ago I was feeling great

OH and One HUGE thing, the key actually. The ebook was a huge problem and honestly I think that one factor if removed could have kept me away from the fantasy..... Reading on screens is nowhere near the same and I was reading this awful book that is supposed to be funny "good reasons to punch a dolphin in the mouth". It was supposed to be funny but was just  a bunch of shitty cartoon drawings of violence with some sexual images how stupid to read in hindsight. I had good intentions but was hard headed.

I was like reading it, feelling bad and triggered and I was like thinking "keep reading, when you read the triggers normally pass". That is true but reading on the screen is simply not the same and this book was crap, these lame ass cartoons on a computer screen. It was like surfing the internet on some backwater shitty website, which normally is a big trigger for P. Oh well, lesson learned. I already knew ebooks and reading on screeens SUCKS. I am offically cutting it out of my life permanently. Real books only, I swear the brain waves are not the same it is an entirely different experience and activity actual reading versus looking at a screen at words.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on April 01, 2019, 06:50:10 PM
Man, sorry to read what you've been putting up with, but I'm really glad to hear you're getting through it without PMO. All of this is valuable learning, and it's great that you're writing it out and thinking it through. I think that will make you more aware and capable of dealing with these triggers in the future.

Sorry, too, about feeling down. I know the feeling, no prospects or even hope of prospects, also just feeling off. I catch myself feeling weird about social things after the fact all the time. Like I send an email and feel weird for a day and can't figure out why I feel bad and then remember it was just that email and everything's fine. Probably, those girls weren't reacting as badly as you thought, but that doesn't change the way it felt.

I guess all I'm saying is that I know the feeling. Hang in there: strong urges can be really tough to deal with, but I'm sending good vibes your way. You can do it!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on April 02, 2019, 11:37:08 AM
Hey man, I'm sorry for the bad night you had. I had a regretful night too, one of the girls I was talking to told my friend I was being weird and backing away while she was talking to me...and I didn't even notice it at the time. It made me feel like everything I thought I was doing to "better myself" really wasn't helping at all, and I honestly thought for 1 second that if I just did a quick PMO my head will clear up and I'll be easier to get along with. I guess a small step I took was that I reminded myself that PMO is what led to being this way in the first place! Keep your head up, all we can do is learn from the past and move forward with a positive mindset.

Great job trying to cut out fantasizing, I realized that even if my fantasies are about real women I like they are just as fake because it is about my personal image of the woman rather than the actual person...keep it up!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 02, 2019, 11:43:26 PM
Bluehero:Thanks bro! I appreciate the perspective, I feel pretty bad about the fantasizing but this whole time, since starting the journal, I have been pmo free and that is something to be happy with. Instead of my usual "look for whats wrong" habit. I can just be like no pmo is great! Now I want to step it up even more and cut the fantasy out... I am motivated to handle that though, get this shit handled once and for all.......

Good point on that.... it felt the girls were reacting so badly, I didn't even question that it may not be as bad as I perceived. Also the no prospects thing, emails, it's uncanny how so many of thoughts and feelings I read from others are identical to my own. Thanks for the good vibes! I'll keep them in mind and that should help!

Pichael- I can relate to that, I can get really upset and ruminate on small social things that end up being no big deal in the end. I was just working on slowing down my speaking (I speak toooo fast) and I felt so awkward and weird. I want to focus on the big picture. I read a bit of this book by the basketball player Kobe Bryant, he said he always had the big picture in mind, he would try new moves and did not care at all if he messed up, because he knew by trying the moves he'd be a better basketball player, it just would take time  and seeing the big picture.

Yeah, I was too complacent on fantasizing and that led to my fantasizing about porn/fetishes. For me it's a big issue, like I can fantasize about it for hours, not good for the brain. So gonna tighten that stuff up.


UPDATE: Day 1 (fantasy free)- You know, I should give myself a pat on the back, got a lot of very important work done to start the day (as I planned). Read a lot, tried a few new solitary activities. Two possible new things to add in: Gratitude stuff, writing things I am grateful for and affirmations. I noticed I am not even comfortable with the idea of myself being attractive to women naturally. So I perhaps will write affirmations for a few weeks to at least get myself comfortable with the idea. Pre severe PMO addicition I used affirmations and found I certainly benefited.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: username is not available on April 02, 2019, 11:58:25 PM
I noticed I am not even comfortable with the idea of myself being attractive to women naturally. So I perhaps will write affirmations for a few weeks to at least get myself comfortable with the idea.

I think I have the same problem
It seems like I'm blind
When women are attracted to me I just can't see it and sometimes realize it months after that a girl liked me
I feel dumb and have regrets over this..

One time a girl told me she loved me and I just ignored her cause I thought she was kidding
The thought she could actually like me didn't even cross my mind till years later
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 04, 2019, 02:25:14 AM
With you on that. Crazy how the mind works. I had an older guy who is now a ladies man type tell me how when he was younger when women looked at him he always thought it was because he had something on his face, then in his 30s he realized they were attracted to him and started dating them lol.

Well, not noticing women liking us is better then women not liking us at least....

I noticed I am not even comfortable with the idea of myself being attractive to women naturally. So I perhaps will write affirmations for a few weeks to at least get myself comfortable with the idea.

I think I have the same problem
It seems like I'm blind
When women are attracted to me I just can't see it and sometimes realize it months after that a girl liked me
I feel dumb and have regrets over this..

One time a girl told me she loved me and I just ignored her cause I thought she was kidding
The thought she could actually like me didn't even cross my mind till years later
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 04, 2019, 02:32:38 AM
Day 2: Good day today. I  luckily had little to do. I had some withdrawals I think but was able to essentially entirely get rid of them and feel great.

I had this constant antsy feeling and my heart would not stop racing this morning. I kept listening to relaxation recordings and meditating, that helped a little. But my heart would not stop racing and I had trouble sitting still, it was bizzare this strong physical reaction that would not go away. I am talking hours straight.

But then,I went for a super super hard run. A very hard route where I wanted to stop and walk for almost the entire time. I did it with the intention and thought "if I push myself hard enough, there is no way my heart will still be racing after, the withdrawals will be gone". I just had the instinct that I just had to push myself super hard physically. So anyway, that is what I did.

In terms of a prolonged hard workout, it is the hardest I have done in a long long time. The whole time I kept thinking to myself "by pushing myself I am purging myself of the addiction and getting rid of the withdrawal".

It worked! By the end I was so tired it was impossible to feel anxious physically or mentally, I was able to really rest and read some nice books. The rest of the day, I still managed my emotions carefully (exercised more, practiced mindfulness) but really felt quite good and was able to control my emotions and thoughts for the rest of the day.

I have family visiting which'll be nice. It's possible I won't have as much time to post. But it'll be a good time.

Gonna keep on with this stuff. Cutting the fantasy is a priority. I was thinking, I really have struggled with this addiction for a loonngggg time, I likely have addiction related brain changes. It's time to really cut it out. No left overs no vestiges, no keeping it alive with fantasy.

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on April 04, 2019, 08:40:30 PM
I've definitely felt that heart racing feeling before, I think it's bc our body is used to something (PMO, fantasizing) that it thinks it needs to survive, but it is only because we conditioned it that way. Working out helps me out alot too....I kind of realized that my brain will always try to play tricks on me to get me to fantasize, so it's natural to slip up sometimes....as long as I catch myself fantasizing and go back to doing what I do, I try not to make it a big deal. Try not to put too much pressure on yourself but at the same time keep your goals clear in your head, that balance is important I think :)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 05, 2019, 04:46:06 PM
Thanks bro! Very great point, goal in mind but not too hard on self. Thats a good lesson, will focus on it today. Just calmly enjoying putting in some work on my projects.

Day 3: I had some nice time with family. Started off still feeling some withdrawals, and felt bad about it since I felt I should be happier. I just sucked it up and saw my family was still super happy and did not notice, so it was nice to realize it's not all about me and they were happy so I could still have a good time. After that, I had a great time too! I get much done which I am totally fine with, but I kept up my meditating which has been AMAZING.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on April 05, 2019, 06:55:15 PM
Glad you're making progress, meditating, cutting out fantasies, and all the rest!

It's been so great to be a part of this community and to see that the struggles I face are not unique and to see that other people are having success battling the same problems.

What you were saying about not believing that women could be attracted in you really hit home for me. It's just not something I believe could be possible, and I always have one of these three thoughts when I learn someone is interested: 1) that it's not real, 2) that they'd stop being interested as soon as they learn about my struggle with PMO, or 3) that I'm not interested back and why can't I find someone that I'm interested in who's also interested in me? None of those are very helpful thoughts, probably. But that's where I am. Our addicted brains sure have done a number on us.

Let's all hang in there! We'll get it all worked out in time
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on April 05, 2019, 09:49:59 PM
That's nice you got some family time, always good to be around people that support you unconditionally! I'm totally with you on the "wishing I was happier" feeling, that was me most of last weekend. The fact that you were able to still have a good time regardless shows alot of mental strength and resilience which will definitely pay off in the future. Keep it up!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 05, 2019, 09:57:52 PM
Thanks Guys! Really appreciate the kind words and can relate.

A big one for me, I think is finding the right balance in terms of not being hard on myself. I want to be easier on myself BUT at the same time be disciplined and control what I can control. I.E not skip out on things I don't want to do that are good for me. I am really enjoying the mindfulness and like how I am aware of my emotions.

I got quite upset about something, but decided to go dance for a bit and felt way better! Just passed a bar didn't worry about anyone else and just danced and felt better! It's not specific to dancing, I am enjoying this essentially new found ability to be like wow, my emotions are crazy! Then take an action that is healthy to fix them.

Then I told a less supportive family member about something I was excited about.... and he just poked holes in it telling me everything that could go wrong and downplaying it etc..... so I was upset again, but I called a calm friend who luckily picked up and I feel much better now.

This is some key stuff. I can't 100% of the time always get rid of my emotions and will have to deal with them, but it's nice to have healthy coping methods, the withdrawal has me pretty emotional but I am glad that I can get super super upset recognize it, then take actions that I know will make it better.

For me it is: 1) Just recognize it! Don't think about it. 2) Be soft on self, I left an event a little early cause I saw my mind and mood going down the drain + getting irritable. A second part is to let it go... like my mind is thinking "never talk to this person again!" "never go to this club again etc!" just to forget that and move on to step three (to calm the mind first).

3) Do a healthy action I know helps me.
Exercise
Dance
Go for a walk
Look at something pretty like a tree or the water
Call a positive friend (if available)
Swim (have a pool!) big one!

So I can take one of these actions and feel way better! It's like calm the emotion first, then get more stuff done. Not making any decisions or taking actions while in that bad state.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on April 06, 2019, 07:36:28 PM
That sounds like a really good 3-step plan! Yeah it sucks sometimes when we feel like we have no control over our emotions, and it often seems to happen at the worst/inopportune times. I guess these moments in life are inevitable, but on the bright side they will come and then pass, like a rainy cloud covering up the sun; the sun will shine soon enough with enough care for yourself. Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on April 07, 2019, 06:56:42 PM
I'm with you in being in a weird emotional spot. For some reason I've been feeling nervous almost all the time the last few weeks. I think a lot of it is school related, but I've also had some weird social things lately because of a breakup last year. That relationship just wasn't right for me, but she's been pretty weird about it since.

Definitely going to be more deliberate about following a plan like yours to deal with these emotions. They've been going crazy, and I know they're related to the urges I've been feeling the last couple days. My brain knows that PMO can make me numb for a while, so it's doing its best to take care of me, but not this time! I'll work on finding healthier outlets for my feelings, like dancing!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 07, 2019, 08:30:40 PM
Thanks for the encouragement guys! I really ought to stop on this forum a bit more consistently, sometimes I am on a few times in a day then miss a few days. So much good knowledge I forgot!

Anyway two days ago was imperfect, I was fantasizing about a girl a bit and had some brief fetish fantasies pop into my head. But did not engage with them and pulled my self out of it..... still as we know, this is always something to watch.

Happily, I pulled myself out of it and today was much better. I realize a big issue there, was I was very underslept. It was wonderful to see family but it through off my sleep schedule, it effected me a good bit.

Bluehero- I am with you on the anxiety, I think it's related to this. I have heard many stories of people trying to check there phones less, it takes awhile but they realize that they get an anxious feeling before checking the phone.... So they have phone addictions, porn addictions are more powerful... It seems to me addiction or at least these digitial ones, hijack our fight/flight/anxiety system and use anxiety to get us to engage in the nonsense.

Doesn't mean those situations aren't actually stressful, but I bet the addiction/ withdrawal may make it worse.

Today: A very good day! I set some small goals for the day. Goals that were not just get this done or get that. Real tangible goals and I achieved them! I have a date tonight ( I think!) a bit nervous and my mind is trying to talk me out of it. (She is not really into you) (It'll be a waste of time) (It's not really a date) (You'll spend money and be pissed after).

But fuck the thoughts, I'll just go and have fun. It'll either be a good date or I'll learn and up my social skills
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on April 07, 2019, 08:58:45 PM
Hell yeah, congrats on the date! I think every guy pretty much has those thoughts about a first date, it helps me to remember that I'll never really know what the girl is thinking; and honestly that's for the best if it allows me to just be me, and whatever happens after that happens.

I'm also with you on the forum consistency; I don't want to abuse it and check 10x a day as a crutch for my urges, but at the same time don't want to abandon it and get too cocky/lose my vigilance. For me, I'm thinking a range of 2x a day at most, and once every 2 days at least is consistent but allows for some flexibility as well
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Do or die on April 07, 2019, 10:12:27 PM
I am at day 5 today. Please tell if you have nightfall problem.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: LeanAndBop on April 08, 2019, 09:00:11 AM
Hey Quit,

Hope your date went well, I can relate massively to the nerves/negative thoughts that can arise before such a situation.

Lack of sleep has a big impact on me also.

Peace,
Bop
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 08, 2019, 01:54:35 PM
Thanks Pichael, that is a great idea I am going to aim to stick to that. every other or twice max.

Thanks bop! Good to hear that, whenever I realize a lot of people have these thoughts, it makes me realize they are actually less likely to be accurate, they are just a natural mental quirk I guess.


Anyway, we ended up rescheduling the date for today. I let her plan the date and the place was about to close lol. We realized at the last minute then tried to reschedule.... I was then sure I'd never see her again. I was sitting in my apartment being upset about it, but then.... I remember a book I read and it was talking about how optimistic people, spend less time ruminating and more time just trying to fix the situation. So I was like fuck it, I'll at least try and take some action.

I called the girl and she definetly seemed still into me and even nervous when she asked me to reschedule for tomorrow (today) so the plan is to see her tonight. Wow, glad I did that. I was sure we were done for.

Oddly I got a girls number yestarday, but she has not responded to my texts. Truthfully THAT girl (the one whos number I got) is not one I want to date. She seemed very off. Sometimes I think I go for girls who are off and weird because I guess I feel weird and feel like those are the girls I can get. That is a mistake. Oh well, I have some worry since she works in an area I like to hang out and I wish I hadn't connected with her at all. BUT, I have found my worries are very often unfounded. It'll prob be fine, just say hi to her if we see each other and keep it moving.

The positive is: I have a date tonight in a much better situation, much more certainly a date with the same girl that I actually do like... and now I know, no matter what happens this girl DEFINITELY likes me. No doubt about it. So, pretty cool girls can like me for sure. Still feel like I am battling my own mind though (that other girl I met yesterday was weird, this girl probably has something wrong with her as well).

Oh well. I have some cool stuff to work on later today so I'll enjoy that
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on April 08, 2019, 07:00:24 PM
Way to be! I hope your date goes well.

I think it's cool too that you're recognizing what you aren't looking for in a girl. I know I end up thinking a lot that I'm so messed up that I'd just be lucky to have any girl be interested in me. But that's the wrong attitude. It doesn't reflect who I really am or who I'm working on becoming.

So don't let your addiction trick you into thinking you deserve less than you really do deserve! Good luck!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on April 08, 2019, 09:40:50 PM
I couldn't of said it any better myself, @BlueHeronFan! I get so needy and desperate for any girl when I used to PMO, but now I'm starting more to think about what I want to look for in a potential partner, someone I can grow with...that doesn't mean it has to be set in stone, but that also means standards should be raised. Good luck on your date @Quitforeverthenwin!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 08, 2019, 10:48:57 PM
Thanks so much for all of the support guys! I just finished the date, it was a learning experience. Looking at the big picture REALLY helped. It it was so helpful coming back and reading these comments. Like I wanted the girl really bad and felt like she was so great and then it ended, but then I come back and read the comments and it's like "oh yeah" there is a lot more to life. I've been reading you guys journals and getting support from you for weeks now... this girl I just met LITERALLY YESTERDAY!

It reminds me it's about the path, any one girl is not that important (until she becomes important! Like after years or something). Knowing a girl for a few days is no biggie.


So here's what happened from the beginning :

I set some dating goals for myself this month and I wanted to make that happen. I basically just talked to tons of girls yesterday, this one really liked me. Big for me, was letting it happen. We had the date planned for yesterday and it was moved.

I should mention: She is on vacation so a relationship was not in the cards no matter what....
She also texted me pre date. She could not stay long...

This girl obviously really liked me. We got to the bar, we talked. She was asking about getting a cocktail or something. I don't drink so she didn't order and we went to the beach. (I live in a waarrmmm city). (This may have been a mistake, next time just get club soda, the girl doesn't drink cause I don't then we had nothing to do.....). She was touching me a lot and initiating physical contact which is cool.

I took her to the beach. We went to these nice rocks but some dude had a headlamp on and was like searching for something lol. It creeped her out. I brought her to some other rocks I sat, eventually she came near me. We sort of kissed for two seconds and a giant wave hit us, we kept going, then another HUGE wave like went totally over us! We were like 15 feet from the water, it was some tidal wave shit lol.

So our kiss ended like literally as our lips had just touched lol.

My back is soaked, she is soaked. She starts saying she has to go soon. lol (I think she had said that earlier).

It was odd, she kept saying she had to go but was touching me. We kissed more. Then as we were walking she ordered an uber, said she'd see me soon and that she was leaving tomorrow (see me soon??)

I was a little lame, and was trying to convince her to come hang out where I lived. ( I didn't really know where else to take her). I am not even sure if I was ready for sex but really wanted the female company and to cuddle etc. Then her uber came super fast and that was that. She kept touching me a lot and saying she wanted to stay then suddenly she totally stopped was gone. (my brain is like: she just came to be a tease and get an ego boost!) Goddamn my fucking brain! I sort of believe that, she obviously DID like me, she may have just been conflicted or put off by my poor date management/ bringing her to headlamp creep and tidal waves lol.

Hmmmm.

You know, man life is a lot more complicated then pmo lol. I have had the tendency to get real down after knowing I won't see a girl again but.... I put things in perspective. I made out with a really pretty cool and that was fun! I got some rewiring in, so if sex does happen I am wayyy more prepared! AND I hadn't been on a real date in like forever. It takes time. Like movies have all this romance shit, you just meet the right girl etc, but at the end of the day, imo I gotta go on dates to get comfortable on dates. So, go on a few, do my best to meet girls and when I am running dates better (No waves, places to go; become MORE COMFORTABLE) I'll be dating girls!

Writing this I actually appreciate it a bit. The bad part is it happened so fast, it was like the blink of the eye and the girls gone. But man, thats some cool shit. I went on a date with a hot girl who was into me. We talked about ourselves, we started kissing on the beach and got hit with a damn tidal wave lol. The real world is not as controlled or instantgratification as online land but it's way better.

Now, the thing is... KEEP IT UP! Keep doing all the right things, be aware of a chaser effect that could happen from the sexuality and aim to keep meeting girls (though not as my number one priority) so that I can hopefully go on dates moderately consistently in order to know what the fuck I am doing lol (and then have all the good stuff real connection (That is built) real sex etc.

Gonna read a bit and use this as momentum and push myself tomorrow!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 09, 2019, 11:40:25 PM
Super quick check in: What is it Day 6?

Feeling good! I had a good day, meditated in am... Bought a ton of healthy food. Had a good day at work. Worked on a project, which I am glad I did. When I got home I felt really really off, but I went for a HARD late night run. That really helped. Exercise is like goddamn magic. I read a book recently like it's proven to boost mood for HOURS afterward. So anyway, I did the run and then worked through this self-help book that I am trying to work on daily for awhile. It is a great book. Funny, it's an old book from like 1970 I was reading a section about self image it listed the  causes of a poor self-image.

"Negativity"
"What people say"
etc. etc.
"And the worse one of all, that has just been around for the last 10 years; PORNOGRAPHY!" This dude was sharp as hell and way ahead of the curve lol.
The old classic self- help books are legit. No bs you can have everything; just practical, you can do a SHIT TON more then you think and no nonsense advice.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on April 10, 2019, 12:38:04 PM
That's awesome your date went so well! Yeah that does suck you don't get to see her again but atleast you know that you are capable of establishing connections with cool, fun, people...you'll have plenty of other opportunities in the future! I totally agree with you on the self-help books, they have helped me alot too, if you're looking for another one after you finish yours I would recommend "how to stop giving a fuck" by mark manson, the title explains it all lol (it's also pretty funny and entertaining)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: LeanAndBop on April 10, 2019, 01:39:00 PM
Sounds really positive Quit!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 10, 2019, 05:21:57 PM
Thanks guys! Yeah the funny thing is right after I felt bad about it. But once I wrote about it and thought about it I realized it was pretty good! I am ready to date more so I want to keep the momentum going. At some point my life is gonna change and real women are going to be a part of it. The only stopping that is me, so time to keep  it up and make that transition.

Things are going pretty well. I am beefing up my schedule a bit again. Meditation has been really good. Sleeping less, but in a good way. I was over sleeping.

Hmmm a big lesson I forgot to write about is, I went to a class for one of my hobbies and I was very frustrated, thought of quitting, my lessons I had paid for ran out. Then I went again on Monday. It did not go well for the first 45 min then I had a great time! I was so glad I didn't quit..... Also another hobby I worked on today was tough (not upsetting though). I am learning new things and having struggles but the thing I thought is....

When have I or anyone EVER regretted getting good at anything?

Like I am pushing myself learning to dance, I was frustrated-- Is it really possible I would go through all the struggles 6 months from now, be a very good dancer having fun doing it, dancing with women and think.... I regret this? Or is it more likely I'd quit, see awesome dancers and regret qutting??

The mind plays tricks. Persistence is key key key. If I had stuck with even a few more of the hobbies I have taken on to actually get good, I'd be one cool badass dude.


Rest of day, have a fun short social activity, then I may go out and aim to talk to women. Early in my reboot, this was an unhealthy desperate behavior, now it seems a healthy one, though I'll still watch myself to make sure it stays that way.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on April 10, 2019, 07:04:40 PM
Awesome reports! Glad it was an overall positive learning experience. And sorry about the tidal wave lol!

I definitely think learning patience is an important part of recovery. At least for me, relapses always seem to happen when something I want isn't happening right away. So then my brain says, well, we can get that high from PMO right now.

But good things, real things take time. Whether or not that girl actually does come back, you learned something and got one date better at dating. And that's awesome! One good conversation at a time, one date at a time, one day without PMO at a time, you'll end up right where you want to be.

Keep it up! And congrats on the progress!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 10, 2019, 08:07:10 PM
Thanks bro!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 11, 2019, 12:15:02 AM
Just here to complain right now I guess. Odd, I got suddenly exhausted and feel pretty damn bad. I was around a sick person yesterday and around my sick friend today. Hope I am not sick. Just feeling pretty damn bad at this moment. I guess I'll sleep in tomorrow (I don't need to be up early). Mentally off too. It could just be withdrawal. 
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 11, 2019, 08:44:42 AM
Man, this forum is really helpful. Keeping me on track and reminding me what is important to me. Aiming to help other guys is helpful to me too. I posted in mym8mary's journal yestarday about how being willing to forgo sleep for a night is important yestarday... and that is exactly what happened to me last night. It was very fresh in my head "oh yeah this is what I talked about, it's late I am tired I feel sick well if I don't sleep, I don't sleep"

I was a bit sick, was interrupted during my meditation (but went back and re did it!) and at a certain point could not sleep. I accepted it, got to sleep damn late.

But you know what? I was 100% clean. Didn't even let me self think about women at all. I am a little sick (though optimistic I can rest up and feel better in a few hours) didn't sleep the greatest but man I feel good about that. That was a rough night and I was so aware. "Okay here I am, I am feeling sadness, I am feeling ummm shitiness. lol I am thinking maybe I want to just think about a girl and regular sex in bed...... you know I'd rather not do that my habits in bed are changing the urges have been weaker here lately how about I read; if I don't sleep I don't sleep it won't kill me..."

And now here I am, didn't sleep and I do feel quite good about that last night, I certainly could not have done that, definetly not in that way a few weeks ago. Pretty much calmly sidesteppping cravings accepting problems and bad feelings. Now this does not mean to be arrogant, difficulties can always arise. Just gonna stay vigilant. I do say, I have a feeling that this streak is the one that will go on forever....

Short term plan: Today, take it easy. I am lil sick and I'll be a little light on myself. Luckily at this point, my relaxation is healthy consisting of reading (will use vigilance to keep it that way.

Long term plan: Stay on this forum moving forward, I can do less of it, perhaps weekly when I have like years pmo free. But permanent vigilance is likely necessary since these brain patterns don't go away. I don't want anymore long as streaks and going back to it, I want to be done with this shit and going on this forum to stay on track and remember to be vigilant is a very small price to pay. If anything, it's extra support and rewarding to aim to support others with the same problem.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on April 11, 2019, 12:45:55 PM
Sorry to hear that you're sick, get well soon! Sounds like a good plan short term and long term...we will always have a tendency (at varying degrees) to fall back into old habits that could lead to PMO, but even with minor slip-ups vigilance will help us stay the course. I kind of think of it as carving out a path, wandering off a little bit but getting back on the path so that you pickup where you left off. Perfection is impossible, but constant progression is always something we can look for.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 11, 2019, 05:10:23 PM
Thanks bro! Luckily in terms of the sickness I feel a good bit better.

Just thought I'd stop in for a minute. Putting in more efforts to meet women. Feeling a little afraid etc. oh, well. Just gotta stay calm and keep it up AND not get desperate. Just plug away at aiming to meet more women bit by bit a little bit at a time. While enjoying the rest of my life.

I have a little free time at the moment and I am not certain what to do, I set a few goals so may as well work on them a bit. I notice I have a lot of fear of failure. "What if I go to this social event and it goes bad then lots of people think I am weird"
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: mym8marty on April 11, 2019, 07:10:34 PM
Hey Quit! Read through your journal and only noticed it was yours when you mentioned my name... LOL

Quote
I have a little free time at the moment and I am not certain what to do, I set a few goals so may as well work on them a bit. I notice I have a lot of fear of failure. "What if I go to this social event and it goes bad then lots of people think I am weird"

This is a huge issue that I struggle with as well, not in these specific terms but I am constantly experiencing social anxiety. For me, it is especially prevalent because it's only my second semester in school (in another state) so I don't have any solid friend groups. The constant thought for me is that this person wouldn't want me at their event/party, nobody wants me to butt in on their friend group/hangout, that person doesn't want me to  sit with them at lunch, etc.

The biggest things I have done to overcome this are
1. Defining my feelings: telling myself "This is what social anxiety is. That's what's making you think this way. These people really don't give a damn about you coming and hanging out with them, and on top of that might even enjoy your company."
2. Stopping myself from apologizing for nothing: I did this a lot, I would say "Sorry for double texting", or "Sorry to intrude", "Sorry for talking so much", etc. Nobody but me was looking at the situation in the same way I was (that I was being rude just by talking/being around them) so apologizing is pointless. On top of that, apologizing only reinforces my own irrational guilt, validating my anxieties.

At a party especially, this sounds harsh but no one cares enough about any individual person there! No one is paying more attention to you than you are. Honestly the feeling that you may not be wanted can only be rational in a situation like, does this person want to be trapped on an island with me for the rest of their lives. A party is one night, nobody is bothered by you being there any more than you are by anyone else being there.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on April 11, 2019, 07:36:14 PM
I remember in my very earliest days of trying to quit this addiction that I used to think PMO was my only problem, that if I could fix that I would have fixed everything.

Once I started to quit using PMO to anesthetize myself to the problems of life, I started to see all my other problems more clearly. It was a weird realization that I had a lot more to work on than just my addiction. But I guess that's what happened when I wasn't blocking everything else out with PMO.

I'm not sure why I'm sharing that other than to say you're on the right track. If your path to recovery is anything like mine, you'll be confronting the problems and difficulties head on that you've been using PMO to block out. Don't let your new awareness of those issues trick you into thinking you're better off with your old way of living. You're headed to a much better you, even if it means walking through the tougher days.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 11, 2019, 11:35:20 PM
Thanks guys!

Great points Marty. I know what you mean with the apologizing, and the not thinking people want you around, it's great to be aware of it. Also, the "harsh" thought of people not caring is actually liberating! I think feeling like everyone cares what we do etc. (I have been there plenty) makes things too extreme and makes me sensitive. Also lol at not knowing the journal was mine till I said your name, I've done similar

Blue: Totally true. Yeah, lots of problems to overcome. I am trying to enjoy the process, find healthier ways to handle emotions and problems. I read a nice quote today: Happiness and pleasure are not the same thing! There is a lot of meaning and happiness to be found in a life with occasional problems and bad feelings, thats just part of life.


Update: Today was a little rougher emotionally then I let on, but finally I feel better. I pushed myself to socialize a lot. I didn't really make friends or meet many girls BUT I pushed through a lot of anxiety and eventually finally it is gone.

Some danger though: I was thinking to myself "Man I really want to meet girls, maybe I should eventually use tinder just a little" That thought leads to a huge craving and to flashes of PMO nonsense in my head. Tinder was the ultimate killer of some of my best streaks and rarely had good dates on it anyway. It harmed my focus, and was a huge pmo trigger. I had commited to never using it. So perhaps I need to recognize these thoughts as urge/ pmo type thoughts. Is it possible I could meet a girl on tinder? Yes. Is it worth it? Really no, I can put the time into being social and eventually meet women in the real world, even if it takes longer. The inevitable eventually compulsive tinder use leading to a slip is soooo not worth it. Wouldn't matter how many matches I got if I was in addiction land. (Glad to be thinking rationally again, life is about tradeoffs, I am willing to trade tinder and the small possibility of getting dates off of it, for keeping my brain totally clean and being the pmo free well adjusted person I want to be)


Just thought of what I wrote. Expanding on that. A big part of recovering from pmo is getting over the instant gratification nonsense. Real doesn't work like let me search for what I want now! Sometimes women are not available, sometimes it takes time to find a date. My desire to use tinder is linked to my instant gratification I want results/ dates faster! Mindset. So it's related to the pmo, then the mechanics of it are awful of course as well. It's super designed to be addictive.

Message to self: Patience Patience Patience. Keep plugging away, work at life, work on self, be more social, talk to girls when opportunities arise. Be patience, it takes time eventually I'll have women I am dating. Patience. Consistency. This goes for everything.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 12, 2019, 04:55:41 PM
Short time just wanted to make a quick update.

Today I woke up feeling good (a good sign!, normally takes a while to get going).

Something very cool is I had an awesome dream. Some annoying things happened but I was very calm and handled them well a girl like me but in a very very non pmo way. Like a girl liked me and I wanted to know more about her and I even dreamed about doing some other things I have been learning. All seem like good signs.

So far the day has been mostly easy peasy. It's nice to have a day like this, to see what is possible. I got things done, did all the stuff I had to do because I WANTED to which was pretty amazing. I wanted to study wanted to work out, wanted to meditate etc.

Had a few pmo thoughts pop in my head, just popped in but I pushed them out, but always good to be aware of them. Sometimes specific girls remind me of something or someone from porn and are triggers. So, I'll just be aware of it.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 13, 2019, 12:38:33 AM
Some more good news. (in an oddish way).

I had some of my old bad feelings popping up, get real frustrated and angry. Went out and socialized and at the end of the night was mad and felt it didn't go well. But here is where the big progress is.... I was walking into my apartment thinking how I was going to post about it and..... it just disappeared. I just felt fine, nuetral. Like "meh, I'll go out tomorrow, next time'll be better" "I'll be dating eventually".

That is just HUGE progress honestly. Like to just not keep ruminating, to feel on emotion and is passes quick and to feel ready for tomorrow ALREADY. Anyway, so a good day all in all.  I started working harder again, socializing a lot more and doing that I think is weakening my emotions.... If you are talking to people all the time, you body can only maintain anxiousness so long eventually it goes away. I think taking the emotional edge off will make it easier to socialize more and become better socially.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: mym8marty on April 13, 2019, 12:52:29 AM
That’s awesome news! I think you make a great point about how talking to people more makes things easier, I couldn’t agree more. With just one interaction it’s easy to dwell, but if it’s one bad interaction alongside plenty of good ones you get much more comfortable continuing to seek them out.

I think your meditation is probably helping you out with the emotion regulation. Sometimes the easiest thing is to just stop feeling angry, and let it be. Like you said, next time it’ll be better.

Congrats on your progress!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on April 13, 2019, 01:16:16 PM
I'm glad your making progress @quit, I feel the same way as a positive attitude and self-supporting outlook will help you with most things you set out to do, even if you don't get the "results" you were hoping for.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 13, 2019, 06:11:34 PM
Thanks guys! The support really helps. Today I am feeling a little less good, but reading the comments really boosted me!

I was fantasizing about the girl I went on a date with a bit this morning. It didn't escalate but that is best to avoid as it seems to throw my emotions off a bit.

I am a bit upset about an issue with a friend, he's simply been kind of mean to me lately. We lived far away for years, but his life and personality has changed a bit. I still like him, but he's a little more irratble then in the past, the last few weeks he's been pretty irritable.

I keep contacting him, thats a bad habit I have, contacting people or chasing people when they push my away. I think, I'll just take a rational middle approach, give him a week or two, not contacting him, let things cool off and stop being the one chasing the friendship.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on April 13, 2019, 07:25:19 PM
Glad to hear you're chugging along. It sounds like you're doing a great job of separating yourself from the thoughts and emotions of triggers, and it really seems to be working for you! That's awesome!

Stay aware, stay committed, and keep it going!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 14, 2019, 11:46:26 AM
So, I think when rewiring I shouldn't trust my thoughts too much. Friend called me and everything was fine, I think I may have created some or much of the issue in my head.

Today going to change things up. I simply need to step back a bit and organize and clean. I keep feeling like I need to get things done and it's obsessive. I am rushing around. Today I am gonna slow things down maybe even skip a thing or two and take the time to organize and recharge.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on April 15, 2019, 01:06:12 PM
I'm totally with you on not trusting thoughts, I've been thinking alot about the idea of having a positive relationship with the thoughts in my head like you are a separate entity. Sometimes it's important to reign in thoughts and be like "whoa, that's completely irrational" but sometimes it's okay to agree with thoughts and support the ideS that come. It's a process of finding out which ones to connect with and which ones to let go of, but it's definitely something we can improve upon through practice and experience!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on April 15, 2019, 06:41:10 PM
I simply need to step back a bit and organize and clean. I keep feeling like I need to get things done and it's obsessive. I am rushing around. Today I am gonna slow things down maybe even skip a thing or two and take the time to organize and recharge.

This is such a good idea. I don't know if I've ever had a problem with relapses when my place was organized. Most likely, it just means that messiness in my house and sloppiness in my habits go together with being busy and stressed out. Taking some time to put your surroundings in order is a big thing that I know I overlook a lot of the time.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 15, 2019, 08:07:40 PM
Great points guys!

Yeah Picahel,  I forget sometimes that my mind is wrong all the time, the key is picking out the good with the bad. Minds are by nature not totally rational and effected by past irrelevant things and moods.

Blue: Yeah, I have heard a few times. The external is a reflection of the internal! I organized a bit, it was a help for sure. Still more to do.


Update: So last two days I was fantasizing about girl I went on date with and ex girlfriend. Gonna cut that shit out, it definitely seems to harm focus and increase urges.

I have been super tired. Took it easy today, felt bad for most of it but FINALLY feeling better. I really just needed rest. I have been treating hobbies like jobs, that is the wrong way to go. One of my hobbies I did just to keep busy, I didn't enjoy it much but like decided I had to become great at it. I think fuck it, I am gonna drop the hobby. Maybe do it here and there. I felt a million times better when I made that decision, as I was dreading going and had to go tonight lol.

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on April 16, 2019, 10:59:25 PM
I'm glad you were able to let go of something that wasn't making you happy! Alot of what I've learned in meditation is not to "build up" this image of ourselves as strong and determined people, but instead letting go of distractions so we can tap into our innate qualities of peace and focus.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 18, 2019, 10:16:06 AM
Damn bro that is a great insight! It hits the nail on the head accurately. I have been thinking I have to work so hard and everything is a result of my hard work instead of accepting that hey, maybe I have natural ability sometimes or maybe things can happen without trying so hard.

A good bit happened the last few days. 1) The bad I fantasized about the fetish. 2) The good, I met an amazing girl we had this great connection and we hooked up.   :)3) The bad, something must of gone wrong and now she basically told me we wouldn't see each other again and now is ignoring me and I am a bit heart broken  >:( lol. Such is life I guess....


1) The bad- I fantasized about fetish stuff, two nights ago and yesterday morning. For me that is a clock reset.
ANY fantasizing about sex in my bed is bad, I have now found if I fantasize about sex in bed, imagine a girl is there etc. eventually I end up fantasizing about the fetish stuff... (Which I consider a lapse). Again the positive is still no porn or masturbation so I am progressing. But now moving forward I am 100% no more of that shit at all. No fantasy addiction. Be massively careful about fantasizing about girls in bed really, just cut it out.

My fantasy REALLY affects my erection quality and recovery. I want my damn dick to work and all that good stuff. The way to do it is be totally clean, not to prove anything not to have a perfect reboot but because that is what gets the results I want, being recovered having a working dick and getting the

2) I have been letting go of a lot. I had all these hobbies I was treating like jobs. I thought I had to do so much, I was actually neglecting my career, had no space for dating and was getting messy. I have been giving myself much less daily requirements. On Tuesday I did not work until evening and I realized "hey, I actually don't HAVE to do anything" so I rested (still had a cold) wrote a bit, just sat around thinking. I felt tight and was like "I wish I could go to yoga class" then I was like "HEY! I can just go do yoga myself in the park.

I go to the park do a bit of yoga, it felt good. Walking back I notice behind me this very attractive girl. (Previously I had been putting so much effort into learning to be good with women, I read an article that said basically guys think it's hard to meet girls and overcomplicate it and then it becomes hard). Anyway, this girl was very attractive, looked un attainable. I thought whatever I'll give it a go. I just said some random thing about a bird that flew by. She stopped and we talked. She was going to go for a walk. I said let's walk together.

We did, then we decided to go for a swim, it was great. We had a ton in common I was pretty amazed by her and was thinking like "omg this is the girl I've been looking for".

We spent a few hours together it felt like a whole day. I lent her a book, we decided to see each other at night after work.

We saw each other, we walked talked connected. I took her to DIFFERENT rocks this time (at the beach) and the tide was lower. So we kissed and held each other (no tidal wave!) and we kept telling each other how much we liked each other and how amazing this was and I was telling her how beautiful she was..... Unfourtunately honestly I did not feel as aroused or present as I'd like....

Brought her home. We were in bed kissing, I was kissing her all over. Now FUCK PORN and FANTASY. The fantasy affects my erection almost as much as porn.... for real. That stuff is the devil.  My erection quality was pretty shitty. Coming and going.

Then turns out she is a virgin..... We tried several times and talked about it a lot (mistake). She would get nervous each time we tried and eventually I felt a bit of a "shift" like the connection wasn't the same.

In the morning..... she was really sweet but then I went to take off her shorts and she said she should go. As she left she said "if I don't see you, good luck with everything" and gave me a peck. (Basically telling me I'd never see her again). I could tell right away she  never wanted to see me again. Now she's ignored me and has my awesome book lol.

Oh well, I feel better having written about it. I felt like this girl was soo amazing but writing about it, it seems so much less significant and man... it was only one day we spent together! If it could flip that fast it couldn't be THAT special. She was on vacation here anyway. I think I was a bit needy and felt like if we had sex for her first time we'd have this great connection and all that good stuff.

So I spoke to some friends who are great with women and here's what I gathered.

1) I made things a big deal. - Talking about her being a virgin over and over. Regardless of what she says. Makes her uncomfortable.
2) When a girl is a virgin, you basically ask "want to have sex?" she normally says no or " not this time" and you just go to sleep. She'll wake you if she wants to do anything. Basically I should have just slowed down more, been more laid back and finally...
3) This may be super important! My erections kind of sucked and came and went, even when not having sex.... This may have been a huge deal (as we all know.....) I did not mention this point to my friends..... So the lesson there is NO FANTASY. I am gonna aim to choose to make this a positive and use it as motivation to totally cut out all fantasy and imagining girls etc. when I do that I get morning wood all the time. When I've done that and been with a girl after about two weeks, my dick has worked. I realize for me, accuracy beats duration..... totally cutting out everything porn sex fantasy etc. has my dick working. A slight drip, like a little fantasy etc. even if done for months and my dick doesn't work too well. Even when I had a girlfriend and was rewired when I fantasized about fetishes my erections were pretty bad the next few days. Oh well... maybe this event is the motivation I needed.

POSSIBLE TRIGGER BELOW (I mention an act we did, not in detail).

She did give me a blowjob, it took forever to cum and I didn't feel too too much. But, I can view that as a win. This girl was really attractive by any guys standards... thats pretty cool this happened. AND my mind kept trying to jump to weird fetish thoughts and wanted me to ask her to engage in crazy fetish crap but I pushed all the thoughts out and was just present. In  my experience I need to be with a girl/ have sex a few times and before the thoughts go away. Okay, I am ALL IN on this reboot. I want this dick working, I want to enjoy this times with these girls. I want to have this thing DONE and handled.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 19, 2019, 06:16:42 PM
Day 2:

Well a decent indicator. Yesterday I was at the beach and was talking to a woman in the water, it was super wavy. A big wave hit us and popped out her breast. We both laughed about it. But... I got a full on erection immediately that lasted for several minutes. It didn't feel like compulsive porney or trigger. like it was very much attraction to the real woman. So perhaps, the liason with the other girl helped my rewiring/ woke me up to real women more.....

I went out with my friend last night, had a great time and got some work done after. Went to sleep late and still woke up early before my alarm.... Very tired today, but been just accepting it. I had a good time! People do that all the time have fun etc. and just are tired the next day. So cool how I am handling it, having a fairly good day. Would like to get a girl/girls back in my life though!

But, LIFE comes first. Gotta bring that back on track, working to get the women in there but having a great hell of a time either way.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on April 20, 2019, 11:41:58 AM
Glad you were able to have a positive experience with a couple women, that is definitely progress! I'm definitely jealous of your ability to approach and talk to any woman haha, and I totally feel you on wanting a consistent woman in my life.

In the past I have often initiated sex when it wasn't the vibe. Part of it for me is my insecurity in not being interesting or fun enough to consistently "deserve" to be around her...so I use sex as a way to make it worth her time to be around me. I'm not saying this has anything to do with you, just maybe think about why you are doing/thinking certain things, in other words question your thoughts and actions when you are unsure or unhappy with them.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on April 20, 2019, 07:52:52 PM
Glad you're still on your way.

I'm not saying this has anything to do with you, just maybe think about why you are doing/thinking certain things, in other words question your thoughts and actions when you are unsure or unhappy with them.

Whether it applies to you or not, I think this is definitely something worth thinking about. I know I think a lot about how I want to be in a relationship...but is that because I'm really ready for one or because I want to prove to myself that I'm ready for one? I'd hate to force a relationship or uncomfortable situation on some poor girl just because I'm trying to prove something to myself. Anyway, that's just what popped in my head just now. If it's helpful, use it. If not, thanks for letting me take up space in your journal to think it through for myself.  ;D
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 20, 2019, 11:40:06 PM
Picah: Man, I think you are right! Oddly, I had the thought "if we don't have sex, I will never see her again". It became a reverse self-fulfilling prophecy.... I thought that, and it really effected the vibe and how I acted. Still a journey.... gotta learn to accept girls liking me.

Bluehero: Haha, it's always good to have food for thought..... Both of your thoughts really make sense about the situation. I felt 1) I had to have sex with her to see her again, for her to be connected with me. and 2) I did not have a strong physical desire for sex.... it's was just like a " I should have sex" thing. My body wasn't ready at that time.....

Wow, thanks for the thoughts guys, these two thoughts hit the nail on the head 1000% accurately so I am really learning from it.....

Both new ideas can work together:

Realize I don't need to use the sex to enjoy the company of women.
Not NEED to have sex, be more patient, let my body rewire.

Still sad about this girl, oh well......

Gotta just use it to gain the learning's, so I'll be ready for the next time. My mind is like "this girl is really special and we had a special connection, I will always miss her and never meet any girl anything like her". But.... It may be hard to remember now, but I am sure I have felt that before. I feel sure I am right this time, BUT I do remember being more upset over girls in the past....

It will be nice, to FINALLY just get it done and have good connections with girls. BUT, can't make life all about that and it probably won't happen right now. Going to read a nice novel and have an easy morning as well
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 21, 2019, 08:37:00 AM
Fuck guys, I need to get it together. I fantasized about my fetish last night and this morning, not as bad at last time but still..... seems like some momentum lost..... Plus now my dick looks like I was in a cold pool, all turtled and dead for real. Crazy how the body physically responds to this stuff.

Okay, back to basics I think. I've been a little arrogant I guess..... my urges have actually been much weaker BUT I have been staying in bed when I have urges, I can get away with it for a night (not good to do but I guess it shows I am healing more....) but I have fantasized about the fetishes twice this week, super bad....

Anyway, taking a step back. I will set a goal, rebuild the momentum. My goal: Get through the rest of the month without any fantasy about the fetishes.

Action steps: Review the smart book (which I have not done in sometime)
Be more vigilant about handling cravings. (It's nice I can usually brush them off, but it's time to get back on the grind a bit, actively beat down this addiction)
Have a stronger night plan. Off computer (it's been for useful stuff mostly) by 12:00 (including work!) and READ; NOT IN BED until tired.
Do more cardio exercise again.

I was sick for awhile and I believe that contributed to me performing less well. Especially not doing cardiovascular exercise, thats like the core for me.


Simple, going back to what works.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 21, 2019, 09:09:34 PM
It's good to be back on the grind! Doing things the right way. Had a little very weak urge/ sexual thought. So I got up and distracted myself. I got a few girls numbers today. So just gonna be careful about not checking phone too much. Some of the girls being flakey. You know what, I am seeing a friend tonight, who cares? If girls show up they show up... if they don't, they don't.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: mym8marty on April 22, 2019, 03:51:55 AM
I think a good way to approach the no-fantasy goal would be to define to yourself what counts as breaking that rule. Does the thought of the fantasy popping into your head out of nowhere count? I would say no, probably no, because that’s not your fault. But purposefully indulging and exploring that thought would be crossing the line. This way, you can almost be proud of yourself for dodging the thoughts when they come to mind, like if the thought comes into your mind you can consciously dismiss it and do something to distract yourself. Otherwise, you could  be unjustly punishing yourself for something out of your control.

If this is already how you were thinking about this, I just think it’s super helpful to mentally frame things like this. Glad to hear about your last update though! Sounds like you’re doing really well socially and for yourself.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on April 22, 2019, 09:58:40 AM
I 100% agree with Marty, I think progress comes from gently guiding your thoughts away from the urges when they pop up. I think it helps to have a variety of ways to do this, both physical (exercise, dancing, hobbies, etc.) and mental (focusing on the breath, fully tuning into your 5 senses, finding self-motivating and positive thoughts). The more ways you can do that, and the more consistently you are able to do it, the easier this reboot will be :)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 22, 2019, 08:09:23 PM
Great points guys! Marty, that is a super great point. I do look at it the way you described but the reminder is very useful.... I am going to make the line a little but harder. Popping up is fine, but no indulgence at all. No gray area. It pops into head, no problem get away, but don't indulge consciously at all.

Picah, thanks makes sense! I am transitioning a bit now, so that is a good reminder. Some things I am changing, but at the same time, certain things work that I want to remember more.... Swimming when I had an urge was HUGE. My pool was being repaired for a little while, so I lost the habit. Now I can go back to that. You know, I couldn't place my finger on it but really, in some ways I feel like I did when my journal just started (thought not quite as bad). Like I am transitioning, figuring out how to replace my habits. It's a little deja vu ish.


Update: So, I had what would sound like a pretty crazy day. I was upset. But, man I think I FINALLY did just what I needed (last few weeks have been odd). I had a legitimately hard workout, lifting heavy weights, anaerobic exercise. Just channeling all my anger (I got screwed out of some money and lost a job today lol luckily I am starting another job so it's really no biggie, but the emotions were still there) into the weights and hitting a heavy bag. Man I feel so so much better.

i had backslined a little, was checking my phone a lot, seems none of the girls are responsive I was feeling down about it.... But lesson learned you really gotta feel good first girl or no girl. At the most basic level I felt tired but I had this anxious/angry energy lately I didn't even notice it. I felt so tired but did triple my normal workout, so clearly I had the energy, at least emotionally.

What a nice release I feel, it's so powerful that it is odd. Definetly a great replacement for PMO. Just super duper intense exercise.

I should note (if I haven't already) I was training to be a professional athlete when I was younger, exercising hours and hours a day. I had a pmo problem but it got REALLY bad after I got hurt.... So I think my body is used to/ needs the tons of intense exercise. The key is finding ways to exert myself without hurting self or re injuring self.

I have a lot to do next few days. I do need to make the new job work and there is a little pressure, so gotta just dedicate tomorrow to preparing my ass off.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 22, 2019, 08:55:27 PM
My thoughts are quite very negative at the moment. Sigh.... a real bummer. I am thinking like what can I do to change it? etc. You know, I think I just need to chill a bit and let things happen of their own accord. Maybe I just need some extra sleep tonight and thats it.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 22, 2019, 10:18:56 PM
So I need my voice for a presentation TEST for my new job. It's a public speaking related job I want bad. And it's all about this test. My throat had been sore, I need to practice and I have now lost my voice. I feel like the universe is conspiring against me and I should give up on life right now lol.

I think I also may have burned another bridge with a girl. I want this job pretty bad and am now unemployed. I am kind of shocked at how bad things are going. Like, I was really down. But then I started busting my ass to prep for this job. Like " I am gonna prep for this so hard and make it happen!" Then my voice went, like I was pushing through pain, now my voice just went....

It's wild like in a day everything went wrong. Every girl is gone. I still miss the one from last week. I have no income source, may have issues making rent (in this new dream city I've been in).

Well, the good part is I wrote about it, so I guess I'll have to figure something out and make things work. Honestly I'd just feel plain bad to have this whole journal and end by like turning into a smelly homless guy masturabting to porn in the library or something lol Probably wouldn't be very inspiring to those who read it.

Reboot fuck yeah!!!! Nice I met the woman who I think I'll love.... oh shit she doesn't want to talk to me.... I am rebounding! Oh shit nevermind. I moved to my dream city.... oh wait my bad I am unemployed and so sad I went back to porn and spent my last money on a prostitute and now I am homless...... the end   so yeah gonna avoid that.... guess I will just read the damn presentation mentally as much as I can and hopefully find some strong ass antiobiotics or any kind of fucking drug to just make that presentation happen. Clutch time. Gotta get it done
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on April 23, 2019, 09:18:52 PM
You're thinking in the right direction. Stick with the grind and stay committed!

Sorry to hear things are sort of hitting the fan. If it helps at all, I feel like these have been some of the worst couple months I can remember having. Weird how things start getting worse when I start living better. But I know I'm on the right track, so I won't give up.

We'll get through this garbage together, all of it! Sending good vibes your way, man!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: mym8marty on April 24, 2019, 12:34:04 AM
You might be able to reach out to the people offering the job and ask to move the interview to a week later or so given the condition of your voice. This isn’t always possible obviously and it would be better to do the interview with the shitty voice than to not do it at all, but if they are willing to work with you you would have your voice back and have had some additional time to practice.

Also you might want to consider not reaching out to girls when you’re in a bad mood. Not only can it affect your chances of it going well (your bad mood will pretty easily show through your words) but if you are turning to it in times of negative thinking then it could be a sign you’re replacing porn with texting girls? Not saying this for sure but it’s something to consider. Overall just try to save it for when you’re in a more positive headspace.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on April 24, 2019, 12:43:58 PM
I've definitely had really low points in my life, to the point where I visualized myself being a complete loser...no school, no job, no friends, no interest in anything, overweight. It was really tough to change that mindset but got positive momentum by just doing things that I knew could have a positive impact in my life, even if I didn't have ANY desire to do them whatsoever...eventually I started to realize that no matter how bad things are, and how bad you feel, you can always make a positive impact on your situation in some way or another. Even if it's just sitting and meditating, or taking a nap if you're stressed lol.

Going through this reboot takes serious strength and willpower...If you can get through this you can find a way to let all the past girls go and do what you can to nail the interview, or reschedule it and nail it later. Like you said, it's clutch time!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 24, 2019, 10:49:43 PM
Thanks for all the support guys! I prepped like crazy and drugged myself up on over the counter stuff and felt ready to crush the presentation and.... it got moved to monday (with no prompting on my part lol). I don't have the job yet but things are looking really good. Nearly everyone at the company has told me they like me and are hoping I get hired ( you have to perform on the presentation or they won't take you even if they don't like you). But I am training for the presentation like it's fucking Rocky 3 lol. I found out a bunch of other people are presenting for the job too, I felt awful. But funny I feel really happy right now. I just was like you know? Why get upset? I'll just do whatever it takes to get the job.... then it doesn't matter and there is no reason to be upset or stressed.

Like I can be stressed and upset that I am sick, stressed and upset that there are others competing for it. But if I just already decided that I am going to outwork everyone and do whatever is necessary to get the job, then I have nothing to be upset about and that is what I am doing.

So feeling good.

Bluehero: Thanks for the good vibes man, it's good to hear someone else is going through shit and going strong! Sometimes stuff can flip so fast! If I get this job, I'll be earning more then I ever have in my life before without working too many hours. Same can happen in a lot of areas, there may be some turning point with pmo where suddenly our moods are like 10% better and we are 20% calmer, little percentage but they could add up to wayyyy better performance in life.

Marty: Thanks for pointing that out..... about the texting. I think you are right. My issue with reboot has been replacement behaviors. I really appreciate having stuff like this pointed out, I think you are accurate. Compulsively checking texts, using it as some bs slot machine. Gotta do it when I am chill and with CONTROL. I am going to aim to write about my texting or other habits in the journal more so you guys can let me know if you see bad patterns, so it can be shut down before it gets out of hand. As I write I want to check my phone for NO reason. So gonna not look at it tonight at all.

Picah: For sure! Yeah I had all this shit going on. I have just been busting my ass working really hard and honestly I feel damn good. It's weird I just kind of lost myself in hard work today, doing everything I could to improve my life and I feel damn good right now. I finished with a workout even though I felt exhausted but I still had a good workout and now feel great.

A big shift for me: I had this OCD like obsession with improvement and "daily tasks". Like I gotta meditate every day, write in a journal everyday, visualize everyday. Now this stuff all may be good. But at what point am I ready to get RESULTS. I always built these days that had hours of self-improvement in them. It feels good to just be like screw it and go all in to get an actual result in the real world. Hope that makes sense... Just accepting like okay I am ready to get results in my life. Not in a negative entitled way. Just basically spending the day working to succeed rather then working to change/ improve.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on April 25, 2019, 07:52:28 PM
No, I think I get you: I sometimes do things that keep me busy so I feel like I'm getting results without really getting there. Maybe that's not what you mean, but either way, go for those results!

Now I'm thinking about replacement behaviors, too. I've been doing pretty good at staying away from PMO lately, but have I just been replacing it with something else? Thinking about now, I don't really think so, but it's something I'm going to try to be more aware of and probably write about too.

Keep it going, and good luck on your presentation!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 25, 2019, 08:52:49 PM
Yeah, I meant like idk challenging myself for challenges sake.

Like I'd make my goals "study every day for 30 min"
"Meditate twice day"
etc.
Before I knew it, I'd have like 20 things I HAD to do during the day, and would not be performing well at work.

What about just setting a goal?

"Make X more dollars this week"
Master this aspect of X hobby
etc.

Being willing to go for it, being okay with failing. And being FLEXIBLE in how I get there. I am moving towards this and it's working pretty well lately. I have had a lot of challenges, but I am just doing what it takes to get through em, not making it harder for myself not commiting to things other then getting results.

Daily update:
Skipped breakfast (never do that!) I didn't get to eat until mid afternoon and it had me tired all day, really wore me out even still. OH well lesson learned, make breakfast a priority.

Day went pretty well. Job stuff going well. There are other areas I want to work on BUT. The job stuff is number one for now. Going all in, I have an opportunity to improve my life a good bit. So going all in on that. Once I have the job, I'll have more time to balance out. So, I would like to say socialize tonight, but if I don't do much. Don't meet girls etc. so sweat. Job comes first!!!

Also: Gotta stay on track. Enjoy myself girl or no girl.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on April 26, 2019, 07:25:56 PM
Okay, I see what you mean. Yeah, that makes sense, and I think you're wise to notice what's happening. It's the next step: instead of just focusing on improving and challenging yourself, you're thinking about priorities. You can't do it all, so you're doing first things first.

That's awesome and definitely something I want to think more about. I have some free time coming up now that classes are over, so I want to make sure that I'm using that time well with some specific goals.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 26, 2019, 07:57:20 PM
Sounds good! Another thought I was having.... any fun activities you like? There are so many fun activities. A hike? indoor rock climbing? Jet skiing? Amusement park? Museum? I am thinking of doing this too, it can be a nice way to boost the mood when times are rough. Plus feeling better makes things easier anyway! I am aiming to find a fun activity to do soon.

Update: What an eventful, difficult but ultimately rewarding evening.

So, I had planned on going out a bit, I skipped it to rest and was in bed unable to sleep. WRONG! I do need rest but, skipping stuff is often not good, staying in too long is not good. I was fantasizing about my fetish fantasizing about relapse and HOLY SHIT, I came as close as I ever have. I pulled out my phone with the intention of looking at some porn, even planning to contact prostitutes. I was like shaking with anticipation. Then at the last second, I pulled up this forum instead....

I have been so focused on cutting out fantasy that I have neglected to even count how long I have been porn and masturbation free. So I looked up the forum just to see when my first post was. It has been 47!!!! Days!!!! I was like, do I really want to give that up, do you imagine the devastation I would feel to give that up?

I STILL once again nearly pulled up tinder to look up girls (guaranteed to lead to relapse). I downloaded the app but then thought again. I will be DEVASTATED tomorrow. I deleted the app without opening it.

So, I barely slept. BUT I woke up feeling HAPPY for the first time in a looonnnggg time ( it hasn't been all bad but I have been feeling like shit when I first wake up for awhile). And so grateful, the second I woke up I was fully aware of the horrible devastation I would have felt if I had relapsed.



Had a really good day today.

Lessons of yesterday:

Something very upsetting had happened with a friend. (The same one I am always upset about lol). And that was a big part of the trigger. I need to give that dude some space. Some of it's my fault. Simply I view him as more of a friend then he views me. I am tired of it. He's my friend (have a balanced view) but really I gotta stop doing so much for him and also expand outward and make more friends and build up my life separately. Thank god I got through it though phew....

So: Pull back on that friend. Let me be blunt: I have been needy. I gotta expand my social life. Not be so reliant on this friend. Not be unconditionally available for people who are not the same with me. Give us each some space on my terms for once.

Also: DO NOT skip going out and stay in for too long. It straight up doesn't work..... My last lapse period before this journal, I had a few lapses that way. Just staying home then urges would come. It's okay to go out a little bit, and go home if still tired. I forget, I often regret staying home and rarely regret going out. If I have been barely home for a few days. Stay home it's great. But I was inside every evening for days. I SKIPPED a plan (always a BIG trigger) and it nearly cost me a 47 day streak. Plus I may have had a great time, made friends, met a date. Who knows? That was a mistake and a step in the wrong direction. Its okay, learn from it. Socialize more. (separate from other friend).


Finally: MEDITATE. I have not been meditating. I was like "oh I am doing too much each day". Meditating is one thing to include. Not throw the baby out with the bathwater. I simply have an increased control over myself when I meditate. My mind slows down ever so slightly, but it's so so important. Meditation is a very important tool to staying sober. So for the time being back on the meditation wagon.

So the non meditation was really bad, meditating is really important. Very grateful I came so close to lapsing and learned my lesson without actually lapsing.... Wow, I am honestly impressed with myself, never gotten to a point like that and gotten through it before...

I think BlueHero and Picah you both meditate? I would be happy to hear about your practices and any tips you have, so maybe I could experiment with making my meditation better/ more pleasurable etc.





Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 28, 2019, 12:38:34 AM
Feeling pretty good right now.

I was very tired today, I think I am/ was in a bit of a flatline....

So I was very tired, I slept for an hour and woke up so tired I was woozy. I still went out for a bit. I felt pretty listless, a mix of nervous and um... un social. I felt disinterested in most women I saw... Some I was quite attracted to but not as much as usual. I am meditating again and man is it helpful, just taking the edge of my emotions a little bit.

Anyway, so I was out and just out of it. But by the time I got home I have some energy and want to socialize. I am already home and first though "shoot, wish I had this energy before" but a better way of looking at it is... in terms of like investment. I felt really out of it, went out anyway and was able to put myself in a better mood and re energize.... hopefully I can use that energy tomorrow.

ALSO- One of the girls, who is no longer in my city, sent me a really sweet text saying she liked me etc. but was nervous to meet because she didn't want to have feelings for me and leave. That was very sweet and a confidence boost. It's odd... the last week or so, the idea of having any sort of relationships even a date with women has felt a million miles away...... it's not logical. But this text made it seem a bit closer. Work is priority 1 and has moved me away from dating much, but I want to get back into dating again perhaps next week.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 28, 2019, 09:08:50 AM
Day 2 (fantasy free) 48 or 9 (PMO free)

Woke up feeling a bit better. Went out a bit last night and learned from it.... Going to work on some fun stuff today. This forum seems kind of slow lately...
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on April 28, 2019, 07:52:06 PM
Wow, sounds like a lot has been happening. Huge congratulations are in order for pulling back from a potential relapse. You're right, that would be devastating to lose that streak. I know my growing streak is definitely a motivating factor for me. Just keep checking yourself and making adjustments.

You asked about meditation. I've been doing meditation most days for a couple years by now, I think. Maybe 3. It's an ongoing process, and I sometimes think I'm not doing a very good job. But that's not the point, right? For me, the value is in the habit. Sometimes I feel like I get really deep into it and finish my meditation feeling refreshed, and other times I feel like I just sat still for 20 minutes. But I still think that's helpful. More concretely, I've been using an app lately called Insight Timer (Android and Apple) that has a lot of guided meditations, music, talks, etc. It even has some great things about addiction in general and even on porn addiction. A lot of the app's content is free. I only recently got a subscription to some of the other features (I never pay for apps) because I felt like I was getting enough out of it to make it worth it. So I'd recommend it if you're into that sort of thing.

Sorry if I've contributed to the slowness of the forum. The last few weeks have been intense, but I hope to be back more regularly (daily) moving forward now that things are settling down again. Onward we go!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 29, 2019, 09:30:07 PM
Thanks for the tips! Thats a good point, I would feel like my meditation wasn't doing anything then stop. For my the meditation really is super helpful. Especially for awareness.

Pretty decent day today. I had a minor stress earlier but it was "normal" like I didn't get super upset, so that is BIG progress. To just idk experience regular un extreme emotions.

I had a pretty fun day, was tired but pushed through and had a great workout. My big win, was. I was home and about to skip a workout class I really wanted to go to, because I felt I didn't have the time. I felt a little down like, I'd done too much. Disappointed lonely and triggered. Then was like fuck it! I want to go! So I rushed out, rushed there and had a great time! So glad I did that. I seem to pretty much never regret doing something I want to do lol.... Very glad I listened to my body ( in the right way) . My body felt lonely and felt urges, so even though I'd been out all day, I went right back out and had a great time. 
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on April 30, 2019, 07:42:35 PM
That's great! Recognizing a trigger or an urge and then deliberately doing something to deal with it is maybe a simple thing, but it's huge. For a long time it seemed like my thing was trying not to have urges because I knew they would always get me. Now I'm starting to realize that the urges aren't going away anytime soon, so I'm working on dealing with them instead of giving in.

Keep doing the good that you're doing!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 01, 2019, 06:29:46 PM
Fantasized a bit a few days ago. Cut it out again. Had a trigger come up pretty strong in a convo today with a girl. Came out of left field. Luckily afterward I recognized it.

Not much else new. Doing well, being vigilant. Being stricter (avoiding thoughts of sex).
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 01, 2019, 08:33:10 PM
Good stuff. I'm in a similar boat, had some urges crop up today.

Just staying vigilant, too. We'll get through this
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 02, 2019, 07:41:56 PM
Glad to be on the forum! Felt bad all day. My body hurts, super tired but antsy. Forum is reminding me it's all just part of the recovery process. Gonna nap, hope I can sleep. But if I have to get out of bed due to urges, I'll do it. Being tired won't kill me
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 02, 2019, 08:43:54 PM
True! Better tired than relapsed. It's times like these that really count. I know that antsy feeling.

I know I always feel like these urges will never go away unless I give in, but that's not true. They do pass eventually. We're one day closer to beating this round of urges. Hang in there, man (and I will too)!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on May 03, 2019, 12:56:32 PM
Definitely agree with that attitude, sometimes we feel off or not our best but there are always things we can appreciate!

Sorry if I contributed to the slow feeling on here as well; I'll be on here more frequently moving forward as I'm settling into a daily summer routine
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 03, 2019, 06:08:10 PM
Thanks for the support guys! That night was fine. Been doing pretty good, was thinking about an ex girlfriend. (christ how many times have a written this??? lol). Had a great workout today, which was nice. I noticed as soon as I got into my apartment I felt a bit down.... funny cause I felt good most of the day but when I felt that I thought "I am always down!". It's a habit I'd like to break a bit ( alone in apartment = feel lonely and down). It literally is a habit that I seem to just create the feeling, whatever apartment I am living in.

I think it's time to start scheduling my days again soon.... I don't want to work on certain projects but always feel waayyyy bettter when I do.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 04, 2019, 12:16:41 AM
Hey everyone. Man I post a lot.

Been feeling pretty bad today... I hurt my hand somehow and it hurts to type by the way. But gonna suck it up...

Each time I enter my apartment I just feel sad and lonely. Been so tired lately.... I think perhaps I am in a flatline. I was out last night and just had no desire for women. So maybe it's simple as that.... flatline....

Still gotta stay vigilant, I noticed a desire to idk like play with my penis when I was in the shower, so always keep on eye out for that.

At some point, I gotta just decide to will my way to having a good day... just break out of the rut.

So my deadline is Sunday. Sunday (or earlier) I plan to have a good productive day.

1) Having my  goals finally written out.
2) Working on some kind of project. (maybe social skills)
3) Being super prepped for another work test I have.

That reminds me, my first test for work, the speaking thing I spoke about. I passed. I didn't feel too good about it, but that could just be the flatline/ my mood talking. I was told that it was good and rarely do people pass like that. So now I am on to the next one next week. After that I should have the new job. It'll be tough, but I bet it'll add some increased meaning energy and drive to me. I really do have something to look forward too. I am technically un employed at the moment and that always effects people mentally.

Feeling better having written. The nights have sucked fucking hell lol. I was gonna try and say it another way, but I have not been able to get the same pleasure out of reading. I have strong urges and my sleep hasn't been restful. Sigh.... Anyways, like I said. Gonna will myself to be back in business. There really isn't another way. It's been like weeks now of feeling pretty shitty. Just gotta INVEST. Bust my ass while feeling like shit for a few days, then after a few days I'll have the momentum back and feel better.

Commitment: NO sex fantasizing at all tonight. Gotta clear my brain. If I gotta get up and go out, I gotta do it.

Let me end on a positiive note:
I had an awesome workout today
I actually felt good for much of the day (just when I got home that I feel quite bad).
I am pumped about my workout! I am lifting heavy for the first time in like years, and I look forward to the changes I'll see in my body in the coming months. It'll up my confidence, I'll feel better throughout the day AND let's be real, it really helps with the girls. (this is a good thing imo, any man can work out and get an awesome body, with girls they are more effected by genetics.)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on May 04, 2019, 01:20:19 PM
Congrats on passing your test! I definitely feel you on having bad days, alot of the time routine is really good and builds character but we as humans enjoy the spontaneous things in life...meeting new people, going on a first date, new activities. I think once you start your job things will get better as you will have new opportunities and challenges ahead. I appreciate that you are able to find the positive and still try to do good things for yourself no matter how bad things get, it has helped me alot on my journey!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 04, 2019, 07:28:44 PM
First of all, congrats on passing! That's super awesome. Rooting for you for the next step: you've got it!

But I'm also sorry to hear that you're feeling down. I know the feeling, and I know how tough positive thinking can be. You know, it's not as simple as just saying "cheer up." But the fact that you're aware of it and committed to work on it is a good thing. Just don't give into to it. Looking back, a lot of my relapses have come when I was feeling the most depressed and hopeless about the future. Sometimes, I think that PMO is just about sexual urges, but it's about my attitude more generally too.

Anyway, I think I'm rambling now, but keep it going. Things will get better, and you're probably making more progress than you realize. And we're in your corner, too, cheering you on.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 06, 2019, 09:54:27 PM
Thanks for the encouragement guys! I had a very good day yesterday. Today wasn't bad either.

Met a girl yestarday. She was my uber driver.... but........ We met cause I was in the back seat we were talking with her in the front. I could swear she was cute, but I only like saw her eyes. I also could have sworn she turned around and was cute. Anyway, she asked for MY number. We have  date settup.... Now I will feel bad if I am wrong and she is cute but..... I looked at her whatsapp picture and I swear to god it looks like Michael Jackson (the white plastic surgery one!). Like is it a man!? Is she ugly? Or just a terrible picture.....

I remember looking and thinking "she" had nice eyes and was really sweet and girly. But it's weird for a cute girl to be driving uber for a living especially late at night? So I am a lil stressed. Again, I swear I was in the back seat and she looked like a cute girl, but again I was in the back seat....

She was a quirky really smart artsy girl, so maybe she is awkward and took a very weird awful picture?

Anyway lols. WTF. Am I crazy or what?

Also who knows maybe my mind is playing some crazy ass trick on me. I thought the girl was really nice and cute when I met her and she really liked me and asked me out... I was excited maybe it's like my brain playing tricks on me.... like can't just let a girl like me....

Anyway, I am seeing her tomorrow. If it's a transgender I will run away ASAP.  If it's a cute girl, I'll just be like how the fuck do you take such a bad picture????

When I saw the pic I got an urge. That is NOT my PMO induced fetish lol. I got it out of disappointment BUT if it is the case that this girl is a dude or butt ugly, I'll just run, laugh and conciously not get too high or low. It was only a month ago that I had a VERY attractive girl in my bed. So it is possible. Just gotta be patient.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 07, 2019, 06:49:48 PM
Glad you had a couple of good days!

But oh man, good luck with all of that. I hope it's just a bad picture and that the date goes well. It's good that you have a backup plan, though. I hope you have a plan for any urges that come up after, too (if it does turn out bad). I know those disappointment urges too well. When anything even barely relationship related doesn't work out, my brain turns to PMO so fast.

Whatever happens, let us know how it goes. Hopefully it turns out good!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on May 07, 2019, 08:03:38 PM
I second @BlueHeronFan....definitely go on the date but if it’s not what you were hoping for move on with the confidence that there is someone more suitable for you, and watch out for those disappointment urges. Honestly very interested in how this is gunna turn out haha
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 08, 2019, 03:47:09 PM
Lol, thanks for the support guys!

So, the girl showed up very late and was very unnattractive and overweight. My subconcious knew something was wrong, she was sucking in her cheeks I guess. Damn dark Uber haha.

I kind of smoothly (sort of) was able to end it. Didn't want to hurt her feelings. (I do not appreciate the lateness though). She also was quite demanding. Anyways, water under the bridge, I went for a swim as I waited for her and after that the date was like prob 30 min, so it's all good.

I managed to set up another date for that night! The girl canceled though : (. She is on vacation a bit naive and bluntly said she doesn't feel comfortable. I was chill about it, and suggested we hang out on Thurs, she said okay but..... I was a bit lonely and got out of work early so invited her today (too needy) and now she seems to have lost a good bit of interest.
 

BUT: Let's get on to the good news....

I shouldn't have been on that second date anyway. I felt bad but, I totally ignored my feelings and prepped for my presentation (I had another bigger one today) until late. Slept not too well, but did pretty good on the presentation and now have the new job!! To be honest I was so tired I didn't feel too good and was already worrying about it. But hell this is a big victory, really big. Will improve my quality of life and stability for the time being (hopefully it works out). AND this was one of my goals for the Month! So I already acheived one of my big goals.

I was so tired I could barely move, but went to the gym and although I felt awful, in terms of weights lifted; I had my best workout since I restarted working out. Made some good progress towards my strength goals.

Emotions were not good : But I am proud of myself for pushing through, all this will pay off in the future. Was also feeling down about my dating life but, luckily a good friend called me up we chatted and I felt better. Gotta leave the past in the past. Windshield is bigger then the rearview mirror and all that. Put in efforts to improve my life bit by bit.


One last peace of news: That friend who I constantly had issues with. I realized: He ignores me 80% of the time and 80% of the emotions I get in the friendship are negative. I discussed it with several other friends, it's been a pattern. So I am going to take a break from him and be the one to pull back. The plan is a month. Let my mind clear, expand my life. (He talks bad about other friends and is a bit isolating I think). So anyway, I think that will be good for me. The key, is to do it for me. Step back from being treated this way, feel better about myself and have a break to clear my head. Not to punish him.

Also lol- What am I his girlfriend?? Too much drama with this friendship and thought put into it (as you can see above) so looking forward to a much needed break.

Maybe I can suck up my tiredness and KEEP being productive today?
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 08, 2019, 06:59:03 PM
 ;D Huge congrats on the job!  ;D
That's incredible news, and you put in the work, even with all the things that got in your way. Definitely something to celebrate.

Sorry to hear that the first date was weird and that the second one didn't work out. But it sounds like you're handling it better than I would have after the fact. And, hey, even if they didn't really work out, having two dates scheduled for one night is pretty alright if you ask me.

It probably sounds like you're making the right call on that one friend, too. If he's not helping you move forward, he's probably not the right kind of friend to put a lot of effort into right now. Maybe you can have a stronger/healthier relationship in the future, but there's no reason for you to put up with being ignored.

Way to go again on landing that job! Definitely keep being productive and taking care of your needs, but also think about doing something to celebrate. I know I usually let my focus on getting things done keep me from celebrating the good things that happen. You've earned a piece of cake or something, for sure!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 09, 2019, 08:39:05 AM
Thanks for the encouragement! I really like the balanced viewpoint on my friend ( I tend to be extreme). Might not be the best thing right now, but not " GRRR!!!! I will never talk to him again" then flipping too " oh everything was fine". Just a calm break and things could change in the future.

Thanks man! With the dating, I found I handled things better by.... deciding too. I was talking to my friend (not the one I am taking a break from, the one who called me and made me feeling better) about that how planning in advance how to feel, although not perfect. Has an influence. I just was thinking to myself like : Be cool. Practice not getting so up and down with girls. Keep moving forward.

Self talk like that and it's really helping. It's not always easy but it is quite cool, because doing that can allow me to feel like I am improving, learning to follow my own path better, even if the outside situations are not the best.


Update: I caught a nice break!

So, in terms of being productive, I decided to go out and talk to girls. I did it for an hour and a half, just going about town. It was cloudy with few girls out and like no good responses from the girls.... not my day. (I got in one 2 min conversation then the girl pretty much ran away lol). But: I was consciously being less hard on myself thinking "hey, maybe this was not the best use of time but you are taking action! This is good, since you are taking action you will learn from it". I was just really aiming to calm myself.

I still felt not too good and I luckily live a few blocks from the library on the way over, I had a longer conversation with two girls, then made a mistake and it ended lol. But I tried to chill out and consciously not be hard on myself (I just posted about this in Blueheron's journal, I think most people reading this read his as well). I went to the library and could not think of what healthy activitity to do. I ended up just browsing books for like an hour, really taking the time to decide if I REALLY wanted the book. I had a great time really felt calm and just loved it and found 5 awesome books right at the end.

THEN: I went home feeling calmer, planning to perhaps visualize a bit, maybe make a plan to better my social skills and go out that night and.... I check my phone and it turned out that second girl (the one who was the second date, the one that did not happen) had texted me two hours before! ( I don't have text notifications nor check my texts often...) Asking me what I wanted to do!

We went back and forth a bit, I was very chill telling her it was getting late, so we could hang out tomorrow etc. Kept saying "if you want". I said "I have to go out in an hour and half but you can hang here if you want, but It could be late for you" etc. (she previously said she was not comfortable meeting at night). She just send me back "we can relax together until you go with your freinds if you want"! (exclamation point mine lol). 

I invite her to come hang out, she comes. She took awhile and I was sure she was not showing up, but then I go downstairs just to check and there she is! Sitting outside of my building.

We hang out in the library at my building, talking just having a great time. Then we went to the beach. It was a bit of a roller coaster, her saying she just wanted to be friends and not touch each other, me walking away several times, her then getting close to me again.
(Basically instead of pressing a girl when she does not want to be touched, just completely removing all touch not acting upset, but acting like I have lost interest (I actually did). We sat together talked a bunch. She let me drape her legs over mine I had great erections like half the time.

So spoiler: We did not have sex or even kiss.

But it was a great date. She is conservative and visiting my city for just two weeks. I get the feeling she really likes me but wants to protect herself from doing too much with me and misssing me when she leaves

Anyways, she came home with me we sat really close, her legs across mine watched a funny show, talked a lot. I gave her a lot of compliments and was very open about liking her.

We hung out until late. Then I walked her back, she is nervous about walking in the street at night. Anyway, that gave me a huge boost, I had a great time felt really good and we have plans to see each other again today, but even if that was it I was happy with the experience and feel a lot better.

I had a great time, felt a strong connection with a girl, one I have not felt in awhile! This really helped me to get over that other girl from like a month ago who ignored me after spending the night. Plus it was GREAT for rewiring. She was conservative so we mostly touched lightly, to too intimately or sexually, no pressure to perform. BUT I had lots of great erections and definetly felt that healthy sexuality. Just really liking her, having a strong erections but enjoying the moment, desiring her sure, but not feeling some impulsive adrenaline rushy impulsive type of feeling.

Another cool thing, I felt TOTALLY satisfied after the date. I didn't feel I needed more, more contact with a woman. I just felt damn good happy, connected and ready to go home and read some of a funny book I got earlier. Feeling just plain happy this morning. Ready to enjoy my day excited about a few things and really can handle it whether this girl does come see me again today or not. (Also want to use this momentum and confidence to talk to more girls! - She is leaving in like 10 days no matter what happens).

EDIT: Forgot to put this... Something I live about this date is, I was just present. I just really enjoyed the time with her (80% of the time, I wasn't perfect). I am pretty sure it was Pichael who said this. Something to the effect of trying to use girls to prove we can have sex and are cured of PIED. Like almost not being sexual for the desire of it but trying to prove something. I am glad I totally avoided that! I was just enjoying the moment, not putting pressure on me or her to get more sexual. The truth is, if this girl had been super sexual and agressive I probably was not even ready for it! It takes some rewiring time first (it's been awhile....) . So just glad about that.

 Another thing I am glad about it, I was so worried and sure I was not gonna see this girl again, that I screwed things up, that she was going to flake. But I was dead wrong. When I actually feel the connection the girls don't flake nearly as much as I imagine, it's just with getting the number without a connection, that that happens.

This girl I met in a nice BRIGHT walgreens ( not a dark car) lol. She was standing there looking at ice cream. I was like "wow that girl is attractive" didn't expect her to like me. But again, I struck up the convo and she just didn't leave and we kept talking and I could tell she liked me.

Another note: When I am out practicing my skills with women or looking for women I less often meet them. BUT I meet women in my day to day life sometimes totally randomly. BUT, it seems I meet the women randomly when I am consistently working on my skills with women.

Like
Go out to practice skills with women now = Randomly meet a girl, without trying later.
Whereas when I am not practicing that happens less. I guess it is because it is far more genuine, but the practicing keeps my conversation skills good enough and my confidence high enough to start a conversation when I am not ready and see that really attractive girl I want to meet.
 
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: kadeshzelbriel on May 09, 2019, 10:56:44 AM
Congratulations, that's so exciting! I feel the vicarious success. I resonate with a lesson here around connecting better when you're not really in a mood of "trying to meet women." I think women can feel the pressure when we're "trying to meet them," it doesn't feel genuine, etc, but when you actually just genuinely want to connect with someone - easy! And then it's way more satisfying too, when we connect from a genuine place rather than out of all this pressure we feel from being fucking horny and desperate and frustrated. Excited to hear more about what you're learning as you experiment with all this.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 09, 2019, 03:15:20 PM
Thanks bro! Glad you "feel the vicarious success"! I find it really nice to hear success stories too. When I am in a rougher period and see it going well for someone else I remember like "oh yeah! things can be good" plus it motivates me. Or in a good period it just adds to it.

Super on point, I feel like I will never 100% understand how it all works with women. Sometimes it just happens so damn easily and other times it feels impossible, but what you said there definitely seems to be the case and explains a good part of it.


Update: Feeling pretty good today, just posted to keep myself on track. Stay grounded. Down periods are dangerous  but sometimes ups/ excitement can be too! I was all excited about this girl and.... well this is a private journal so I might as well share the tmi/ embarrassment. I was multi tasking, cooking while changing my clothes. I was not wearing anything. I was 1) Thinking "yay things are so great I am going to meet so many women.... then had a flash of some girl in my head". and 2) Moving around quite energetically, which ummm was moving my penis around since I was naked which was actually stimulating in my current no PMO/ having cuddled for like an hour with a hot girl yestarday state. lol

Anyway, that only lasted like 30 seconds before I noticed and was like Wait! I feel good but don't go down any bad roads. So here I am posting and making sure I stay on track and use this happy energy directed into something productive or fun. : )
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 09, 2019, 05:58:36 PM
Wow, this is all great! I'm really glad to hear that you heard from that second girl and that things went well and that it was a fulfilling experience. Awesome that you're feeling good!

It's weird to me how the highs can sometimes be just as triggering as the lows. Like recently when I've had urges when I'm under a lot of stress and now when I have hardly any. I don't really know where I'm going with this other than to say that I know how it goes when you're feeling good and then suddenly realize that you're in a risky position. Way to catch it and move on!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 09, 2019, 09:59:09 PM
Yeah totally true! I guess it's some kind of invincibility feeling or that arrogance creeping in.


So good news (sort of...) I saw the second girl again tonight. Now the bad news is, she now totally shut things down and really "friend zoned me". The connection felt much less and she really just made it like she wants to be friends. BUT, I am still counting that as a date (albeit one that did not go well). Hey, going on two shitty and one good (that led nowhere) date in three days is still pretty good!

I am happy with it as I am consciously focusing on me and my path, not the individual girls, which is huge. So I am happy with myself there and I have the feeling I am progressing with my life. I wrote down some goals and have achieved several already! Tomorrow gonna aim to use this momentum and be happy about the rewiring opportunity I had with the girl and the experience I got PLUS I am going to consciously aim to beat back some of the negative thoughts I occasionally see slipping in.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 10, 2019, 11:26:26 PM
I've gotta call today a win overall. I felt poorly early in the day, but still got done some important stuff I had been putting off. Some of it was simple like meal planning and getting groceries. Also took a step to further my career, making a call I've been putting off. Felt bad most of the time, but did an extra super light workout, just to soothe my joints (light weights not pushing at all). Then went in the pool, with the plan to read. I ended up just hanging out in the pool going underwater and just enjoying the silence over and over, moving around stretching, enjoying being weightless for probably over an hour. Felt much better after that.

Then I got angry a few times at little things, was a bit annoyed with myself over this but hey, this is one area where I have found being hard on myself is definitely not too helpful and I am improving...

I read all of darn it, his username escapes me but... the journal called "rebooting till my boners can crack diamonds". This was helpful and something I planned. I was feeling like something is permanently wrong with me, like maybe I have some mental disorder  since I feel so all over the place emotionally and mentally. I thought "hmmmm, maybe this is just part of the reboot I should read some successful journals" and I saw that it does seem to be part of it, we all go through some crazy emotional stuff in the recovery, I also thought of how I am doing things to progress which is good.

I had wanted to talk to girls today, but am actually glad I forgot all about girls. It was just what I needed, back to basics. I had a good two hours of feeling great, just swimming a lone and going for a nice walk. Good to be able to be happy PMO free and woman free. Not needy for anything.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 11, 2019, 03:10:10 PM
Had a dream last night about porn fetishes and all sorts of nonsense. It's not the best feeling but oh well, it's all a part of the recovery. I thoroughly cleaned my apartment and it is soo much nicer! Really needed that. I did get that done but I don't understand how it is 4:00 pm... this day is going so fast and I feel like I didn't get that much done. But, hey I did some important stuff. Funny how a lot of important stuff really doesn't take all that much time.

Also: I have had morning wood like every day for the last 5 days at least, which is awesome! Hmmm, not sure what to do with the rest of my day. At some point, at least I want to socialize in some form. Haven't much last few days.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 11, 2019, 06:36:53 PM
Sounds like a decent few days. That's awesome that you cleaned. It always makes such a big difference for me. My place didn't really need it, but I did a little tidying just now, and even that makes everything feel more peaceful and nice. Way to take care of yourself by taking care of your surroundings!

I know it's a bummer when you get "friend zoned," and I know I've gone down bad roads PMO-wise when a potential relationship has fizzled out. But, I don't know that I'd be too bummed about a non-romantic friendship with a woman. I know it's maybe not the goal, but part of me feels like it's probably a good thing for recovery to have positive relationships with women where sex isn't on the table. It seems like a lot of the articles and things that I've read about rebooting can be overly focused (in my opinion) on sex, and it sometimes feels like trading one sexual obsession for another. (I know I'm probably being unfair and misrepresenting things, but it is how I sometimes feel.)

To cut it short, sorry that that date didn't work out: that is a bummer! But also don't let yourself feel like a failure when socializing only turns into friendship. I think that's also a huge win and a way to train our brains not to have to see all women as potential sex partners. So keep up the good effort, however it turns it out!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 11, 2019, 08:02:32 PM
Hey, that's a really good point. Heck, I could even bring her out with me to socialize, her being my friend and meet other women while I am there. Plus, I could use more socializing anyway. So, I'll contact her tomorrow and aim to hang out with her.

So, speaking of being too hard/soft on self. I was too soft on myself today! Felt decent but just procrastinated and procrastinated unwilling to commit to doing anything. I got nothing done after cleaning my apartment, nothing fun nor productive. Grrrrr. Well a lesson learned. Working is fun! I feel much better when I push myself to get things done. I am sooo tired, as I did nothing all day I just got more and more tired. Tomrrow, I am going to commit to pushing hard! I did this last Sunday and it was great, time to bring it back....

At some point gotta go harder and keep the momentum up..
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 12, 2019, 12:01:24 AM
Went out a bit.... wasn't 100% feeling it. But glad I went was in a few conversations met some cute dogs, that somehow were allowed in this outdoor lounge.

Thinking to myself, I could use more passion in my life, not like dating passion, having a passion. I have heard this a lot. Have a passion be great at it and be on your path and let that get you girls....

I worked hard and am decent at approaching women, but was thinking like really? Do i want to have to go out several times a week to meet girls whenever I am single or want to socialize? Wouldn't it be cooler to have something cool I am doing? Idk performing of some kind.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 12, 2019, 02:28:10 PM
Moving along, I  feel pretty good about today.


Feeling some random physical type anxiety in my chest, this is quite common. I am glad that I scheduled and got done some important work... which is what I wanted.

Working really is the best.... Something I thought about a few days ago and am experiencing... on the bad days you feel bad either way. Like sitting around doing nothing you feel bad and getting stuff done you feel bad... so may as well get stuff done because it allows you to feel a little bit better after and much better a few days later when momentum is built and in the times when you succeed because you put in the work. Experienced that right now, I got work done. Felt not on my A game and a bit anxious, once I have finished and am relaxing eating lunch, the anxiety was just the same probably a bit more. But writing this journal and celebrating having gotten the work done has me feeling a little less anxious. So it's a big win/win! Get work done= work done and it takes the edge off the bad days a little. Also, as I posted yestarday feeling good and getting no work done hurt my momentum. So it's better to usually work on good days too. All with in reason, taking time to enjoy self as well.

I had another porn dream this am, I think I had the porn dream, woke up for a second and feel back asleep until right around my alarm clock. Honestly, I am going to look at this as progress I have been shutting down the porn thoughts like 10x faster lately and I didn't get them in dreams before....

My logic is:
Before -fantasizing about porn and sex often- No dreams
 Now- Not fantasizing about porn, being much stricter, getting morning wood more often- Porn dreams sometimes.

It is coming with a lot of other good symptoms and interestingly enough my arousal in the dreams is not insanely strong. So I think it's either A) My brain is processing that shit out while I sleep. Or B) The thoughts aren't coming out or being engaged with while awake, so they are trying to come out while I sleep.

Either way it's progress in my book. Having weak porn dreams is waayyyy better then doing it consciously while awake. So it's progress.


Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 12, 2019, 07:04:41 PM
Lots of good stuff in your posts, way to be!

I think that's a great idea to go socializing with that girl. What better way to meet women than through a mutual friend?

I know what you mean about finding a passion. I can think of about 100 things I want to work on and do, but I have trouble finding a single passion that sort of drives them all. There are things I like and things that I think would be valuable, but I don't if there's something that I just have to do to feel like I'm achieving my passion. That's definitely something I've been thinking about lately.

I also really know that feeling of anxiety in the chest. It's been with me for a few months it seems like. I just keep hanging on and trying to take care of myself as best as I know how, figuring it will ease up at some point. Sorry you're dealing with it too. (But also glad it's not just me)

Porn dreams are weird, and I've never known what to do with/about them. I haven't had any in a pretty long while, but the last few I've had have been about resisting or refusing porn, which I take as a good sign. Who knows what our brains are processing when we dream about porn? But I definitely agree that it's better to have it show up in dreams than in real life.

Hope you have a great start to the week!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 12, 2019, 11:05:22 PM
Thanks man! Hope you have a great start to the week too!

Like you said, it's really nice to hear other people have that feeling in the chest. In my darker moments a lot of the time I worry/ think that I have some kind of underlying disorder. Sure, I probably have a lot to work on etc. after quitting porn. But hearing other people have the same feelings going on, makes me a lot more hopeful it's just part of recovering from the addiction and will pass/ is not some permanent part of me.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 13, 2019, 10:07:24 AM
So I set some goals. Some of them I was uncertain about. I thought "hmmm, I should not take away goals once I set them, thats a bad habit". But I took them out of my notebook. Since then I am feeling anxious and have some triggers, the first strong one in a LONG time. Okay, I am going to go swim! (Just thought of this now). This is my first reasonably strong craving in a long time. So, I will turn it into a positive and go do another activity so that I replace it. After that I'll plan out the day and refind some direction. Swim to get mind right first.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: LeanAndBop on May 13, 2019, 12:12:47 PM
Hey man that sounds like a wise decision. I hope you are well. I find doing push ups useful when I have an urge.
All the best
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 13, 2019, 02:57:53 PM
I did a light workout, my muscles were super tired. But I feel much better. Probably going to go to the beach and swim a bit soon. I guess today won't be massively product. I am however, focusing on talking to girls in MY DAY TO DAY LIFE. I talked to like three girls and it feels soooo much better then going around looking for girls wasting time. Anyways, thats a big adjustment. I think this may be something I do moving forward. It's odd, in my day to day life I feel like I see pretty girls everywhere, but when I am actively looking for girls it feels like I am walking around for hours and barely see any hmmm.

Anyway, that's fine by me. So, going to experiment with this, just sort of planning to talk to pretty girls when I see them and have the time, rather then going out walking around to look for girls. Better for my lifestyle I think.

Edit: So the girl that "friendzoned" me we saw each other last night. It's an interesting situation. She won't let me kiss her but there is a lot of sexual tension. Last night we touched each other a lot, I often had my hand on her lower back, or my arm around her waster with her arm around my shoulders. No matter what happens, honestly I am having a great time with her so probably going to see her today in a little bit.

Just wanted to point out: My mind a few times today has tried to jump into sexual fantasy about her. SHUT THAT SHIT DOWN. Enjoy the real moments. Whats gotten me here is shutting that shit down. So going to be as strict as possible keeping that shit OUT OF MY MIND. No mercy on it. The stricter I am the more morning wood, the more I give off real natural sexuality. Plus, I may not feel great all of the time BUT I feel a hell of a lot better when I am free of that.

Man I post a lot lol. The forum last few days is like 1/3rd me posting lol
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 13, 2019, 03:05:19 PM
Also, thanks lean and bop for the support! It was a great decision. I had pretty much completely forgotten feeling bad and urges this am.... That was a great opportunity, to replace urges and anxiety with a healthy activity and I took full advantage!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 13, 2019, 03:45:45 PM
Posting my ass off today. Oh well whatever works. Sexual thoughts keep popping up in my head, so just posting to break the cycle.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 13, 2019, 04:52:41 PM
The girl just cancelled on me five minutes before she was supposed to show up. Said she doesn't feel well. Damn it. This stinks, I was looking forward to it and don't really have another plan. She is now not taking my calls. Oh well, I guess I will stop hanging out with this girl.

Man, I sometimes feel like I hate women. When I feel like I like a girl and have a real connection with them, they don't give a fuck and are willing to just ghost me like it's nothing. The lesson is, to I guess not put too much into them emotionally at least not before they are really my girlfriend. Probably shouldn't air out negative beliefs but I feel like women just don't give a fuck. Like if they want to hang with you they will, if they don't they won't. Like me setting aside the time does not matter.

Anyways, I was thinking to focus more on a social circle, make more friends invite a bunch of people out to events. This way each individual person is not as important, plus I can meet girls in that context. Grrrr.. I gotta get it together now, stay on track.

I wanted to post "this is throwing me off". But no, I need to take responsibility, fucking urges today then was relying on the girl and going out to feel better. Gotta just make a plan and execute it, for this evening. Keep occupied.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 13, 2019, 04:57:35 PM
Well, I feel like I hate women right now and can never trust them. I guess we got pretty intimate and she was conflicted the entire time and got nervous or something.... Oh well, honestly I don't think I am ready for a relationship right now. I am rebooting, but I am perfectly okay with casual sex as long it's nothing crazy. I really really invest too much emotionally in girls too quickly.

I think I invest too much emotionally in the girls and otherwise, like I keep telling the girls i like them, complimenting them etc. Girls don't like that shit.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 13, 2019, 10:32:48 PM
Well, it looks like it's me and me in the journal lol. I calmed down a bit. This girl is leaving soon anyway, a big worry I had was like

"Omg every time I like a girl they disappear I can not trust women yadda yadda". The girl 1000% has been conflicted and clearly really liked me, she said she was sick so....

Maybe she was
1) Actually sick
2) Nervous
3) Scared that she will keep liking me more, and would miss me or not control herself and have sex with me.

Honestly these are the most likely scenarios AND they are the best to keep in mind anyway, why think something negative like:

"Grrrr women flake and I can't trust them ever....." That is just a good way to feel awful and to have pmo cravings and rationalizations. I posted some stuff while angry, but it was a moment where getting my feelings out was useful to me.

It is almost shocking, but I feel pretty good now. I got through all the urges and bad feelings. I went to a new dance class I like, full of nice friendly women. I was feeling so awful at the beggining of class, but bit by bit people were friendly with me and by the middle or so I was having lots of fun joking around having nice conversations. Then I went to eat at this cheap cafe/cafeteria and spoke to the woman there. (Not for dating purposes she is older but is fun and friendly) by the end of all this socializing I felt way better! (I also stopped to see a friend who works at library on way to dance class).

This really reaffirms: I gotta put efforts into building more of a social life. I keep having like a few friends at once. no no no, how about having like regular friends. Not just really intimate ones. Just being able to say message a bunch of people to go hang out at some place and joking around would be great! This is my natural personality and I see how being around people I know, just is fun, meaningful and really helps regulate my emotions. So, that is something to work on... Build out my social/fun life.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 14, 2019, 08:54:41 AM
Had some slight nightmares last night. Woke up feeling a bit "off". But I spent like 30 minutes or more reading a good book and feel pretty good . The girl got back to me (said she feels better). Maybe she was actually sick.

Had some morning wood AGAIN. It was mild today, but still, this is pretty awesome of course...

Key is, just stay the course........ I notice sometimes when feeling good, my brain wants to think about/ fantasize about dating real girls BUT... what happens is this.


"Wow, I feel so good everything is great"---> "I am going to have a great time with this cute girl or meet a cute girl soon"---> "Wow it'd be so fun, we'd walk around hang out etc" (up until this point it's mostly okay)-----> "Imagine having her hear now!"---> "And imagine if we were in bed...."----> *imagining sex*---> After a point it becomes dissatisfying/ disappointing----> Wilder sex-----> Extremely strong urges-----> Lost in fantasy about porn induced fetishes.

Which then leads to more urges, feeling like shit. Goddamn super nearly looking at porn some weeks ago, and losing morning wood and penis not working if I end up with a girl, plus being weirdly impulsive sexually and all that bad stuff. So FUCK that.

So, anyways avoiding that and being aware.

I am pretty proud of myself over yesterday; a lot of strong emotions and urges and I got over all of them and managed to have a good evening. That was some of the best emotional resilience/ turn around in mood I have had, at least that quickly. So I say that is progress..

I had kind of known this but I read it recently in someone's tips... QUALITY of the reboot is super critical I realize. Gotta be clean. Fantasizing about porn and all that bullshit still is addictive (at least for me, STRONGLY for me) so cutting it out totally is just a huge help. I think thats when my dopaine receptors and brain have the real chance to heal and my emotions have a real chance to get processed or I at least learn to handle my emotions without an addition.

Damn just as I finished the post started thinking about that girl. I pushed it out right away. As I have read in other journals.... the FOUNDATION is no pmo no matter what! But, that gives me the opportunity to change other habits. I simply spend waaayyyy too much time in fantasy world. Fantasizing about women, fantasizing about success. With women, do it less! It takes me away from reality, perhaps having me feel too connected to girls (fantasizing about stuff that's not real) rather then just taking our actual relationship for what it is. Plus it's distracting and can lead to neediness. I also want to daydream a little less, but won't be too hard on myself. Avoiding the mental triggers is priority, plus no one is perfect.

Edit: Just re-read my first post in this thread/journal. Ups and downs happen, but I have come a long way! A nice quote "Happiness is not pleasure happiness is victory!" If feels good to be winning against this, getting farther and farther from pmo. Failing at things but handling them better etc.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 14, 2019, 06:14:21 PM
Man, sorry I was out yesterday, it sounds like it was an eventful one! I'm happy to hear that you're getting through the urges and the bad emotions. That's tough stuff, and I think making it through yesterday shows you're making a lot more progress than it probably feels like. Keep it up!

I really support your idea to just focus on being more social. The best dating relationship I ever had started as a really solid friendship and grew from there. I don't think there's any reason to rush to kissing or sex for its own sake. Go out, make friends, have fun, and the rest will come.

I remember hearing once that the opposite of addiction is connection, not sobriety. Addiction isolates us because we have to hide ourselves for PMO, then we hide ourselves because we're ashamed, then our thoughts tell us that women are awful and will never treat us right, then we hide to watch porn, etc. I don't know that I believe that just being social is all it takes to fix an addiction, but I do think it's an important part of it. And, like I might have mentioned before, I think there's a lot to be gained in terms of changing our mindset from pursuing just friendships with women. PMO has made it all about sex for me for too long, so, even thought it's of course something I want eventually, I don't want sex to be the focus of my recovery. That just seems like trading one obsession for another similar one. Oh well, just my two cents.

Keep going strong! You've got this, man!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 14, 2019, 10:38:38 PM
Thanks bro, that is an awesome insight! Really helpful to hear that, because things are going very well, except my brain is doing exactly that, telling me that women are awful. It seems real, and I know that road.... feeling either women will never like me or that it will never work out or in this case that women are just all nasty and awful lol. All of them lead to "well fuck it, may as well PMO" etc. It is good to see it as something of a weird trick of the addiction, creating thought patterns that lead to rationalization to PMO. So have to not listen to all thoughts and challenge them.

I have had (albeit not as much as I have wanted) nice women/ relationships in my life before. Addiction absolutely is isolating, so a process connected to this I guess, is going through all of these crazy thoughts and nonsense that pops up, it's like a bunch of BS has to be shed while leaving the isolation of PMO and moving into being more connected as well as (although not making this the priority) having real women a part of my life romantically and otherwise.

Some good stuff today, just a few observations of some threats I want to write before I forget them:
Something my brain does is super bizarre. I'll have fantasies pop into my head that seem totally real, of women bringing up my PMO fetishes and me being like "pfffttt I am not into that" or saying I am not into it. Now if I was full of shit I would say this was a good thing, since it's like woah I am turning them down! But that is total bs lol. It's just a super crafty way that an urge comes up, after all it is all going on in my head. it's like this weird fantasies where all these girls are into these fetishes but I am acting like I am not into it. It's hard to explain but I can "feel" it, it's just another way the weird ass addicted part of my brain is sending me stuff about the fetishes and is an urge of sorts. Luckily I am shutting it down quick as hell. I am glad to write it down, since it is so tricky and putting it to paper will allow me to really stamp it, that these are thoughts to shut down.

It is similar to the "engaging in curiosity sexually on the internet" I remember a guy had a journal and he talked about how he a few times would google like " how to get over _____ fetish" or did you regret engaging in _____ fetish. These are always just crafty ways to get roped back in. It's a weird rationalization thing, this curiosity or like looking into the fetish in the negative "I don't want this" it's still a way to think about it. Better is just to cut the thoughts out 5000%.

Anyways, really appreciate the post bluehero, because I had a really good day EXCEPT for being really upset over women and thinking they are evil lol. So I guess I'll just chalk that up to the addiction as best I can and give myself time to adjust.

Today, I FINALLY completed everything and started the first day of my new job! This is a huge win, I really enjoyed it. It hasn't sunk in yet, but I now have a job that so far, I have enjoyed, is doing something I like and I will be making decent money and working good and fairly short hours. It's crazy! I have never been in this position before. So this is a huge win, I am still nervous, but assuming this keep going as they are, this area of my life. My work/ financial life will be in a decent spot. I think this is a huge win and can really help build my confidence and happines over the next few months.

Random but important: I succckkkk at cooking, but 4 blocks away I can get healthy food at this cool latin cafe for like the same money as cooking. I am tired of cooking disgusting food and throwing it out, starting kitchen fires etc. lol I have been eating there the last few days and it's actually really adding to my life. I can go and eat one meal there, it's got the latin culture so people are really friendly and people talk to each other, so I get to practice spanish and it really boosts my mood. Just being around nice happy people. So why make life harder? Instead of cooking for 30 minutes, I could spend 30 minutes total walking there and back, have a nice quick meal there talking to friendly people then buy extra food to go for my other meals.

Random: This reminds me of : Theory vs reality. I have read so many books saying it is so nice to make things yourself. I try all sorts of projects.... Drawing, cooking, making things out of wood. I have completely disliked and been stressed by every single one of these things and try them every couple of years to remind myself of how much I suck at and dislike them lol

This is not a negative, it's just not what I like or what I am good at. I am:
Good at learning languages
Good at public speaking
Decent at writing (Maybe not great, but like I can write aaa tooonnnn and enjoy myself doing it,)

There are things I actually enjoy and am good at. But then I focus on what I can't do.

"I want to learn to sing"
"Wow it'd be so cool to be able to draw"
"Wow cooking is so cool!'
"Salsa dancing!"
 
I disliked and sucked as much as humanely possible at all of these things...

It remind me of something zig ziglar said:

Person:
"If only I had his singing talent!"
"If only I could dance like him!"
"Wow! If I  had his charisma"

Zig:
If you had ANOTHER person's talent you wouldn't do a thing!.... IF you are not using your own talents!

There are things I naturally enjoy and am fairly good at..... why not do them? Instead of seeing the grass as greener?

Just as an example. I have been horrible at so many minimum wage jobs and gotten fired over the years..... I am awful with details, can't operate a cash register properly. I forget details. I get frustrated. Now today I did a job that was like 80% public speaking... it was literally the easiest work day of my life.... It's considered a tough job and was hard to get, but for me it was easy. On the other hand I have been fired or failed at like 90% of other jobs I have done.... So there is something to be said for doing things that I was actually meant to do.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 15, 2019, 08:28:13 AM
A little update: I had a dream about pmo related fetishes and lapses and in the dream I felt major regret afterward. Wow... THANK GOD, it was not real. No morning wood today.

Again, I am viewing these dreams as a positive. I super obviously have been doing better in this same time period since having the dreams and I can't really control them anyway, so why worry? One positive is, how awful I felt in the dream, the regret. So that is actually a good thing, it gives me extra motivation. I got to be reminded how horrible a lapse really is and get extra motivation without it actually happening.

When I first cut out junk food this would happen to me. I would have dreams about binge eating then feel this extreme regret afterwards and wake up, I'd feel sooo grateful like "Thank god I didn't actually do that!" and it'd be so easy to stay away from the junk food.

Didn't have morning wood this am, again no big deal I've been moving forward.

Something really nice: Just about every night I can go right in bed, read for a while get tired and fall immediately asleep, wow! That is how i used to be and it has been awhile since I was in that position. It is so nice. Now it may not be perfect, but I have been also staying in bed reading a bit some mornings, basically my bed feels like more of a place to read and feel calm and peaceful rather than a place to get urges lately. Which is really nice.

Still gotta always stay vigilant and block out the thoughts that pop into my head of pmo and fetishes! That is really important, good progress is happening and gotta keep doing what I have been doing.

Also not to be negative BUT, I should be ready for anything:
What if I get really sick and feel like shit all the time: STILL be PMO and fantasy free
What if this job doesn't work out?: Still be PMO free and fantasy free
What if I get with a girl I really like and my dick still doesn't work?: Still be PMO and fantasy free

I don't like thinking about this stuff and even get slight urges when I think of things going on, but still I want to just be ready for anything. Inevitably bad things happen, so I need to be PMO free whether things are going bad or good.

EDIT: Also just to record something. I was reading someone else journal and caught myself thinking "I can't really stop masturbating forever? Thats crazy" ---> This is a very early "rationalization thought" which could later turn into an MO lapse or through some convoluted addiction logic into looking at porn. It may sound weird to the outside world, but no for me MO is not healthy. I have had enough YEARS of problems with this addiction and my dick not working etc. I have had 100+ day streaks and ended up just as bad or worse after MOing just one time! It's not me doing nofap for no reason or some religious thing (nothing against religion but I am not religious). It is logical, for me it's been an unhealthy addiction for pretty much my whole life and caused me a TON of problems. I feel much better not doing it and my body will simply have wet dreams if it needs to. Gotta remember that. Most people can drink alcohol, people who got addicted to it can not. This is not some woah is me thing. No big deal, normal person, great life just no P or M. I like the smart manual and it is pretty clear about it, basically once something has been an addiction total avoidance has a really high success rate and moderation basically never works. (Not never but basically never) And I know for sure moderation of PMO has not worked for em in any shape or form. Masturbating ALWAYS led to relapsing fully. Every single time. I don't want to go through that ever again.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 15, 2019, 04:00:24 PM
Had a great day at work. Sure there may be ups and downs. But wow, for once I am making decent money, doing something I like and not working for too many hours. It's unreal. I performed well at work and felt a nice confidence boost. Just wow want to express my gratitude for this job.....

Man persistence is key, luck too I guess. I tried so many jobs and applied to so many things, really ended up with this job due to yes persistence but also luck... But I gotta give myself some credit, I stayed in motion.. I kept looking and that got me this job.

Each day of work so far it's like a little shot of happiness and confidence, this'll be huge I expect.

Hope everyone is doing well!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 15, 2019, 06:08:10 PM
Congrats on starting the job! That really is an awesome thing that will probably help a lot.

Oh, I know these weird rationalization tricks. For a long time I'd play this weird game where I'd google things that I knew might bring up porn without googling things that were porn. It was like "let's see how close I can get without actually looking at porn." It always ended in relapse. Always. I don't care if you tell yourself you're not going to search for porn and that you're just searching for something that is close to porn or about porn or about not wanting porn; that's a dangerous road to go down. Way to be for catching that kind of thinking and taking steps to deal with it.

I also really love what you said about using your talents. Like I think I mentioned in my own journal, I've been trying to figure out what it is I really want instead of letting people and things like school just tell me what to do. I'm going to think about my talents and how to use them instead of trying to do what other people would do with theirs.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 15, 2019, 07:48:23 PM
100% Nail on the head about those weird rationalizations. Good to always keep them in mind.

 It's funny I wrote that just yesterday I really enjoyed public speaking today then I immediately think. Wow! I should learn to sing! LOL.

Well, I am glad I made that post because it got me to get a whole bunch of books out of the library on writing. No pressure, but I'll give it a go and see if I enjoy expanding on my writing. 

Edit: One last thing. I have had a really nice shift the last several days. I went form mostly bad mood, sad anxious negative emotions with touches of feeling better to Mostly feeling good and positive with touches of negative emotion. It's a really nice shift and good to be in a good spot lately. Gotta keep it up.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 15, 2019, 09:47:11 PM
Boy am I posting a lot, but it's all good... I've been in a good place lately and it's helping keep me there. Plus it's good to record my thoughts/ observations now when I am at my best.

Just wanted to mention, I still am having brief flashes of fetishes popping into my head, but I am brushing them off basically instantly in like a second, they are easy to recognize and easy to brush off quickly. Just wanted to record this as it's just a part of the process, still pushing those thoughts out. It's just very easy.

Not sure whether to go out or not. I guess I should.... I have the day free tomorrow and that could be my time to rest and read etc. Though I am enjoying my book....

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: WilltoPower on May 15, 2019, 09:51:35 PM
Congrats on job and glad to hear you're having a great day! Good on you for catching those flashes!

Keep up the work.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 15, 2019, 10:56:44 PM
Thanks willtopower! Really appreciate it. I also appreciate your comment in your journal about my support! That gave me a really nice realization: Just posting on this journal in general and being involved in being supported and supporting, being part of a community; is really benefiting me in terms of my personality/ how I see things! I notice myself just feeling a bit more amiable and open to others then in the past, I believe this forum has helped me build the habit/ mental model.


Well, I should have listened to my body. Felt amazing but tired, it was a REALLY active and productive day. I made myself go out, took an uber and promptly felt my voice going then my knee and ankle started getting sore lol. I was just at that perfect sweet spot, I exercised a lot and worked a lot and was in the perfect "happily tired" state just before over doing it.

Oh well, I came right back home will speak and stand no more and recharge tomorrow! Lesson learned also follow my own plan... not going out chasing girls so much and focusing on BUILDING MY LIFE, which I did well today. A good life comes first, (I notice the more fun I am having the less desparate I feel for girls) then the women will follow I reckon.

Have a good night everybody!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 16, 2019, 10:17:25 AM
Feeling pretty stressed about throat.... I had off today but if I didn't I'd  be screwed. I guess I just gotta think proactively. I have to learn bettter speaking technique and I'll be okay. Simple as that. Still a little nerv wracking and frustrating as I talk a lot usually.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: LeanAndBop on May 16, 2019, 02:23:04 PM
Hope you are OK Quit. Thanks for your posts you have positive energy.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 16, 2019, 04:14:55 PM
Thanks lean and bop! I really appreciate the encouragement and kind words. It helps me to keep moving forward and build momentum. And it's always great to have support.


You know I think I read this somewhere, but when there is a problem taking action to fix it just makes you feel better. It still sucks I miss talking but I am doing everything I can to take care of my throat.

I threw out all hot sauce. (bad for throat)
Not eating any dairy ( also can cause issues)
Got tea with honey

AND I called a singing school and made an appointment to see a teacher there. The owner of the school asked around and found a teacher who said she thinks she can help. Not really to sing but singers know how to use the voice properly. So I have an appointment for next week and can hopefully improve my speaking technique to stay healthy.


Taking all this action to try and help myself, makes me feel good about myself. It's good for my self image- I feel like "I am the type of guy who will fight to take care of himself/ fight to make things work in his life!". So I feel good about that. Worst case, I got some numbing spray and can use that to get through work if I need to for the short term.

So glad to post here because it gives me an idea:

Make lemonade! I got a ton of good books of the library yesterday and remember I said I got some books on how to write?
This could be a fun day to read my butt off and perhaps try my hand and writing. Plus take a nap lol, perhaps it's a cold as I do feel tired. Either way, going to keep things going. Stay vigilant and do whatever I can to get/ stay healthy. And a KEY is to avoid my self pity thoughts "waahhhh I just got a good job now I am losing my voice I am cursed" or whatever.

It's logical, I may have a cold/ a persistent bug and I likely have bad speaking technique. Get healthy and learn proper singing technique and the problem will be solved. It's not personal, just handle the problem and aim to stay optimistic.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 16, 2019, 06:06:20 PM
Colds are a drag, but it sounds like you're in a good spot overall! That's awesome!

I guess all I can say is keep moving forward!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 16, 2019, 07:49:42 PM
Thanks!

My body is telling me to rest so this evening I am not doing ANYTHING. I stopped at the library bought food for tomorrow and am actually looking forward to this. Doing anything is annoying right now, thats fine just my body telling me to rest.

I have a funny book and the sequel to the funny book! Gonna look forward to pretty much just reading to my hearts content
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 16, 2019, 11:48:12 PM
Quick little check in! Had a moment of stress with some noisy neighbors (someone airbnbing next door). But I was probably 40% less stressed then I was by this sort of thing even a week ago. So I am in a improved spot, handling things better.

Had a few PMO things pop into my head, brushing them off easily, but posting to keep myself honest!

Read nearly the whole book and had a great time! A few pages left. Man it's nice, I feel so indulgent just reading a nice funnny book and eating fruit. It's a good place to be. And really it is real pleasure, I feel so much better then I would surfing youtube for example ( or worse). Clear headed, rested happier.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: LeanAndBop on May 17, 2019, 04:37:48 AM
Sounds great! A good place to be.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 17, 2019, 10:35:22 AM
Thanks man!

So it seems like I guess most of my throat issues is due to being a little sick. Which I guess is better then if i had some throat injury that could be recurring. I am going to CONSCIOUSLY aim to be positive about this.

Simple, just deal with it, stay  positive and when I have to work take over the counter stuff so that my throat works well enough.

Also being super positive can't hurt. I am going to try and will myself to be better. Positive self talk. "My immune system is strong, my throat is healing". Easier said then done to think that way.

Also going to eat super healthy now.... I was not eating enough veggies, when I have a daily smoothie I mostly stay healthy so going to be a lot more disciplined about it. I just drank one and it was delicious. 

I am feeling a bit sorry for myself BUT, the journal is a good opportunity for me to challenge the thoughts I guess.

Thinking like "waahhh I am always sick, I have a weak immune system etc."

Versus:
It's normal, I have a cold or something or maybe I've had some strange bug for awhile now. I've been sick before and always gotten better, and it probably will get better soon. Plus I really don't feel that bad. I am probably at like 70% capacity, plus normally when I go about my days, I'll actually feel better.

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 17, 2019, 11:26:22 AM
Enjoying reading my book, was going to go to a yoga class but feeling really tired so decided to rest. Enjoying reading the book but still gotta watch myself, had a few slight cravings pop into my head.

Was just going to write that I am stumped, but I have a plan.....

Going to leave my apartment and go lay down/ read by the pool or by the beach. I'll still be resting but it may help with cabin fever and allay the cravings a bit. After that I can plan on whats next.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 17, 2019, 05:10:28 PM
Great stuff! I'm glad you've found a good book (and a sequel!), and I think chilling by the pool is probably a good idea.

I'm with you on thinking about eating more healthy. It's not that I've been eating junk, but I could definitely get more vegetables in there.

Good luck with the recovery (from the cold as well as the recovery we're all working on)!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 17, 2019, 07:48:31 PM
Thanks! Funny you mention veggies, been eating a lot more today and I really think it's doing me good. Carrots, peppers and cucumber raw and plain are actually yummy!

The pool was lovely, laying in the sun for like an hour, spoke to a few people by the pool, it was very refreshing. I was unsure as to whether I should go to the gym... I did and had a really nice workout! Felt the best I have in weeks. I did more volume lower weight, my body loved it. My joints had been hurting a bit. I felt my muscles work a lot more and felt nice a loose and warm after with a pump, versus stiff and joint pain.

I went for a walk, checked out bookstore and went back to gym and hit heavy bag and stretched! Getting a sweat going was really nice.

I noticed I am "noticing women" more. The funny thing is, not until I started noticing them did I notice that I had not been noticing them for the last few days. (Interesting sentence structure I notice ;).  This is a somewhat bad thing as I recognize it as a very slight trigger/craving, but it's not too strong and it's really nice that it hadn't been there lately.

Felt really good with all my working out. I feel calm and aware. I felt some sadness, like I am missing out, I should be doing more on friday night. But I was very aware of it, calmly aware and was thinking of the feeling. I think it is something of a habit. I had a nice day, I spoke to friendly people, rested read a nice book worked out. I'll probably go out and watch basketball a bit, and I got some good rest. As far as a sick day/ recovery day goes I had a great time.

So, I think when younger I felt I was missing out a lot, so the feeling is habitual. Sure, I'd like to add things but I think it's mostly the feeling. I oddly would feel it even when with people sometimes. Just self-awareness'll help I think.

I have been listening to hypnosis recordings, much better for me then meditation. Been feelimg good so may as well keep in mind what is working.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 18, 2019, 08:18:52 AM
I ended up staying in, did some reading and tried to get to bed really early. So I am clearly a little bit sick, but I am in fairly good spirits. I'll take a bunch of over the counter stuff eat healthy etc. ( I have work next two days).

For the first time in awhile I had some legit fairly strong cravings. Thoughts popping into my head like "All I want is __________ fetish". I was really tired and was in bed half asleep, with this stuff popping in my head. Eventually I turned light back on and started reading a bit and that helped.

The good news is I NEVER engaged in conscious fetish fantasy or anything, I am happy to be not doing that, it's been feeling great and man is it nice to stay where I am......

Now, being clear headed. I feel much nicer, more self-aware. I was worried I was brain damaged a week or two ago now it's like "oh cool my brain actually works!" I feel like I can think, I can plan, I am mostly aware of my own thoughts and feelings. I still have a long way to go but it's nice to see that this mental state is at least possible for me. I am thinking keep taking care of myself a lot, as I have been then at some point slowly start to do more so I can get used to calmly gettting more done.

 Even fantasizing about the fetishes TOTALLY throws things off. For me it's nearly the same as P. It's like some crazy trance. I'd have ended up with likely a flatlilne, as well as that awful anxiety back in my chest. It makes me act all weird and stressed around women, so my improving social life would be fucked up. (I've been getting a long better with women lately, I can act normal). It would be such an awful feeling and there is literally no benefit. I can now enjoy myself in bed in healthy way. I can take naps, read in bed etc. I've been enjoying my time in my apartment! I am proud of this and it took my some time to build, so I want to KEEP IT UP.

(Just a bit of my reasons the positives of staying PMO/fantasy free and negatives of lapses- To maintain and increase my motivation).

As far as last night: I may have very slightly over reached: 1) I went right into bed to read: It's nice that I can read in bed now, but still it's usually better for me to read on the couch until really tired, then read a bit and sleep. This is also kind of fun for some reason. Reading on the couch, just indulging in a book, not feeling like I should be sleeping or anything. So I'll keep this in mind.
2) I had forgotten to do a hypnosis recording and I did it really late in the evening and in my bed, during it a few craving thoughts popped into my head. So also, I can make efforts to do it sooner in the evening and not do it in bed.

All in all, I got to sleep really early so even with waking up a few times I slept a ton and I feel fairly at peace. I am a little sick.... so I'll do what I need to do to get through work, by staying home a lot and being a little less active, which is okay. Slightly nervous about how my voice will be, but again, I think I can use the numbing spray and I'll be alright.

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 18, 2019, 10:54:48 AM
Sort of checking in for no real reason...

A few things, that'll I want to remember/ expand on later.

Being happy without women (just dating/ realtionship won't make me happy- happy first then getting girls is a nice side dish/ benefit but it's not the core).

Staying vigiliant!

Man- it's awesome that I am actually enjoying rest in a healthy way sooo much. This is big and an important habit.

Next week- Festival is coming to town, it brings a bad crowd and a lot of nosie. Prepare for it without getting doom and gloom.

Get lots of books and use ear plugs.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 18, 2019, 02:38:48 PM
So, there was an issue at work, totally unrelated to me but we closed early and I worked only briefly. But luckily my voice felt okay. I am definitely sick, this is actually a good thing, because I feel like I just kind of push through and talk, for the most part and be uncomfortable.... that is a lot better then having some vocal injury or some chronic problem. My job is slightly less consistent then I thought but still is a great start.

I am noticing women's body parts quite a bit today... So gotta stay vigiliant.

I remember what happens

"Oh, It's a real women I can look at her"
"MMM let me think about sex with her- She's a real woman and I feel good! So this must be good for me, it's not pmo"
By that night *thinking really intensely about sex with her*----> Then it's not as satisfying.

Diving into intense less standard sexual fantasies or memories.
Then getting super strong urges and getting lost in PMO fetish fantasies, not sleeping that night and basically setting my recovery WAY back.

I also keep wanting to go on tinder.

Part of me is saying "well it'd be a good way to date women". BUT- I think I know better. Let me be honest with myself. My desire to go on tinder is not a logical "well, I could get some dates!". My desire to go on it IS AN URGE. It is part of my addiction, at least when used improperly.

I went on there looking for girls and hoping they'd want to engage in PMO fetishes. I'd look through photos hoping to find something triggering. I did perhaps my most shameful thing ever on tinder.

So, yeah. Stay away from that shit. It actually was the start of a TON of my lapses in the past year. Gotta find the balance.

A balance between.
Yeah I want to meet women.
But doing it without it being some impulsive or doing it because I think I am horny (Which oftentimes is pmo trigger compulsivness)

Anyways, getting that stuff off my chest. I guess I am somewhat in a valley of my recovery. It's like an upward trend but there are peaks and valleys. Last few days more urges. BUT, the urges are sooo sooo much more managable then in the past. BUT I still can not get arrogant....

The funny books I was reading are biogrpahies of a drug addcit comedian, it is funny, sometimes triggering and showing bad attitudes. BUT also educational. The guy got on and off drugs over and over and arrogance is what got him over and over.

He went to a rehab place that worked for him- Thought "I am good now!" checked out early and was back on drugs.

He had two guys help him get off heroin, he felt great for a few months- They told him, he needed to have somone be with him on the road for a YEAR to really be sure he'd stay off. He said "no I am good!" and was drinking 5 days later then back on heroin.

Not saying that I need to hire someone to follow me for a year, thank god I am not addicted to heroin. BUT there is a lesson there. Being vigilant and doing the right stuff has me in a good spot at the moment, what will keep me here is continuing to do that! Likely for a lot longer than I think I need to or forever.

So no slipping into just a little sexual fantasy. It doesn't matter if that is okay for most people. I have done that before for YEARS. What's working is clear mind. I am not a robot, I can be attracted to women, just watch myself, watch for triggers and not going into the fantasy hole.

One last thing: That girl, the last one. Things didn't work out at all. I intentionally did not even post about it. The rest of my life was going well, I am proud of myself! I let the girl be a small thing in life and handled it well. We had a lot of eye contact connecting and physical contact and I have been totally fetish fantasy free, so I view it as some good rewiring and bet it left my brain in improved shape for sure! Plus I handled it wayyy better then the last girl, putting my mind on other things.

It's gotta be about my life, the girls just come in it. If they go it's still my life. There is a dating coach I really don't like, but one thing he talked about I like.

If life were a movie: It'd be YOUR movie. Not the girls movie. So it's like you do stuff, the girl comes she goes then more things happen a new girl comes a long, you get the job whatever.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 18, 2019, 06:20:17 PM
Oh, I know exactly what you mean about saying "it's okay, it's a real woman." Only within the last few months have I started noticing that habit in myself. I justify it by saying it's a real person, and I'm single so it makes sense to check out women. But here's the thing: I was not looking at them on my way to talk to them or ask them out. I was looking at them just to look and get a little shot of dopamine that I couldn't get from PMO anymore. Like I think being attracted to someone is one thing because it draws you closer and makes things happen. But just staring from a distance, for me, isn't any different from PMO. It's been a lot of work to keep my cool when I'm out and about so that I don't just reinforce the same addictive dopamine loop with real women around town. There are contexts where it seems reasonable that I would interact with and maybe date women, so then I think it's maybe okay, so long as I'm actually interacting with them and building relationships. But that kind of thing isn't realistic with most of the women I see during a day, so I'm trying to get that under control.

And I've never used Tinder, but I have used other things like Twitter and Instagram that I've decided I just can't use anymore, no matter how useful they might be. I always end up in trouble when I use them. It might be the case that even if you can think of a hundred legitimate reasons to use Tinder, you just can't because the risk of relapse is too high to justify it. Why are you using it? To legitimately meet someone you could form a long-term relationship with or just (secretly) to see some pretty girls and get a dopamine fix? For me, social media usually just ends up being about getting a dopamine fix, so I've had to cut it out.

This is all a gigantic way of saying that I started paying attention a few months ago to the things that trigger a dopamine fix and not just PMO. I've sort of gotten out of the habit of that, and I think that's part of what's at the root of the triggers and urges that I've been dealing with lately: I've been too casual about watching out for dopamine triggers that aren't PMO, and the cycle is slowly leading me back to thinking about and wanting PMO more lately.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 18, 2019, 06:30:59 PM
Wow, thanks really hit the nail on the head there. I was posting to my journal and your reply popped up just before I posted.

For me even approaching women can be a bit of a dopamine fix. I'll impulsively want to go and talk to girls... now, that is not to say that talking to girls is bad and you guys need to avoid it. But there is a difference between me going and wanting to talk to girls and connect with them or having a plan (It may sound a little machiaellian but I find it is not a great idea to go up and talk to girls without a plan, having a plan makes things a lot easier).

I was experiencing this A LOT today and yesterday, my mind just zeroing in on a bodypart. Something wild is.... When I thought about it... a lot of these girls I could not even imagine dating or having real sex in my bed with. It was just a dopamine/live pmo type of deal.

Anyway this brings me to my next point: I do want to up my social skills and socialize more with women with CONTROL. I think this actually will be helpful when I

A) See the same attractive women and over it seems healthy for my brain. In my dance class there are some super attractive women, my brain now seems them as "the girl from my dance class" rather than a collection of body parts. I still find them attractive but in the real healthy way.

B) Maybe not quite "as" good BUT having a plan when talking to women. Not being just like OMG hot girls! Most of my skills with women (although they could be far far about) came about by specific practice. It is actually oddly more fun to go and talk to girls with a plan to practice something, rather then to try and get the girls. Since it becomes less serious and personal. So IF I am going to keep "cold approaching" girls. I NEED a plan. Non of this just running aound talking to girls wasting my time and harming my self esteem crap.

So anyway: I plan to ummm plan lol. I want to take the time and make a plan for improving my social/ dating life. This job was a big win... (I could still use a little more money but I think I am okay for the time being). So maybe it's time to round out more of my life and get a social life? Sigh.... I may invest in this video product on how to build a social circle. I don't want to spend the money lol but it had good reviews and maybe it's just what I need....

If I succeed, maybe I'll have to edit out some details form my journal for privacy sake lol. If I end up knowing 100s of people maybe one or two of them will know this forum haha.

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 19, 2019, 12:20:32 AM
Went out, some good stuff happened. Met a girl, not sure if I'll see her again.

BUT- I secretly was hopping she was into PMO related fetishes.... It was a pretty strong urge now that I think about it. Honestly, I am not all that attracted to her , she was a cool person but loopy (it was at a party) and I couldn't even consider dating her....

If I am brutally honest, what appealed to me was like

" I SHOULD be having sex, this would boost my confidence I should have sex with her"

And
Her seeming easy/ an impulsive sex opportunity, which really was the addicitve/dopamine part of my mind and my mind was trying to insert her into various fetishes and fantasies......... Still is a lil bit.

She seemed wild and "freaky" so it triggered some of that. Well, glad I posted and am staying self aware. IT really was a little tough for me, while with her. I was like "wait keep the streak up" to keep myself from falling into fantasy.

Still I can feel that urge in the background just a little bit, so I need sleep now but if I see the girl again, I'll take the time to think it out and write it out and get back to reality...
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: WilltoPower on May 19, 2019, 08:20:11 AM
I'm no expert in women and dating, but I do know that your thoughts are not all driven by porn. I'm willing to bet there was something about her that was attractive to you. Our brains produce dopamine when we sense a fertile female so that we seek to reproduce. That's an evolutionary mechanism to keep our species alive. That said, there are two things that I see happening in your post, 1. porn has twisted what sex is which you have already noted, and 2. society has placed too much emphasis on sex. Society says that you need to be having sex all the time. Not only that, but society does not know how to have a mature conversation about sex. To society, sex is all about physical pleasure. Sex is more than that though. Its an emotional experience that is meant to make two people more attached to one another.

My point is that you should take comfort in knowing that its not that you are simply compromised by porn, but that this is a complex issue that I think we as porn addicts should spend more time discussing because we, along with sex addicts, are basically the end game of such perspectives. Recovery is not just about the neuroplasticity of the brain, but it is also a therapeutic, emotional, philosophical, and possibly spiritual process in my humble opinion.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 19, 2019, 08:31:14 AM
Had some more intense urges and PMO fetish stuff popping into my head last night. Much more intense. My rule is to not not concisely engage in it, to not ever make the decision to idk how to describe it, fantasize as an activity.

I still don't feel to great about it........
I still have that girls number, I think I should probably delete it....
I can not even imagine having any kind of relationship with her, I can't even imagine having "regular/ intimate" sex with her or dating her or anything like that. She was a bit older, seemed very slutty wild and crazy. Met her at this party and she talked to me then was all over the place.

She was very triggering, the only thing appealing about her was #1) She was there and friendly. Then #2) Some perverse addicted part of me liked that she seemed so wild and crazy and used that as a way to insert her into PMO fetish fantasies.

Glad I wrote this out as the obvious decision is to delete her number. Sure, I may want to date girls and not be too judgy/ picky but I know I genuinely have no interest in dating this girl.

Now my mind just came back with "she could be practice/ a friend with benefits". But, I've have been on other dates and none of the other girls facilitated such a strong negative side of me.

Anyway I had a good night. I am on an upward trend lately. Still I wonder if there is something I can add to my recovery to decrease these urges and images in my head. Without me being aware of it I was having really intense images and urges pop into my head last night.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 19, 2019, 08:54:38 AM
Fair assessment willtopower. I had posted my other post just as you posted your reply and had not seen it yet.

The girl did seem positive and happy and it was a beautiful environment, an outdoor party. So there was some attraction and healthy sexual feelings, you are right for sure!

BUT-> Some aspects of the girl sort of disqualified her from being a girl I would date. (This party was wilder then i am used to...)
1) She had crazy, gross hippy hair. lol
2) She was old for me
3) She seemed crazy and was a mess
4) She seemed to possibly be on drugs
5) I'd be shocked if she does not take drugs
6) She hinted at having a "dark side" or some kind of mental illness
7) Intuition- this girl was crazy lol.

My brain then goes something "I know these crazy girls are down for anything---> I bet she likes _________ <---- Insert pmo fetishes here. Then had me hoping that she'd bring them up, just as happened last week.

I suppose I will consider things, not be all or nothing. My last sexual encounter, I had to fight PMO urges a bit even as we were in bed together. So sometimes I need a nice streak of sex and rewiring to be able to be sexual and present without my mind trying to slip into fantasy (hopefully that makes sense).


I deleted the number. I was about to write how, I should meet with her but commit to keeping it healty and immediately got a powerful urge. NOPE- I haven't not felt anything like that with like any girl. I think she also said a few things that made it seem she actually may be into some of the PMO fetishes that I cut out of my life.

I was trying to rationalize but no, this was not the same as when I get some pmo thoughts and brush them off when I am with a girl after a long time. This was totally different and there was nothing positive about where this was going. I have learned to TRUST MY GUT. My gut was telling me BAD BAD WRONG BAD STAY AWAY. About this girl, but then the perverse pmo side of me is like "you should hang out with her"

I know... my subconscious only wanted to see this girl to try and engage in PMO related fetishes.
I can trust my healthy instincts at this point "stay aw
ay from this" "This is no good". This might sound a little crazy, but I have a bit of an antennae for girls who are more open to some of the fetishes I got from PMO. One of the shameful things would be messaging with girls on tinder about the fetishes. That bad antennae, after the first few minutes of excitement of a girl being interested in me... is what is appealing about this girl.

Now I certainly could be wrong, she could have not been into that stuff or open to it. But that is what my brain wanted from the girl. Literally I am kind of grossed out by her. Like ewww... So, again I could be wrong (likely am) that she is into whatever my mind came up with but that is where the appeal came from.

This post may be a little hard to understand because me knowing what is going on with myself, is coming from years of trial and error and messing up on reboots. Certain girls I like and am genuinely attracted to. Other girls I am not attracted to but they insight PMO urges in me. I get CRAZY thoughts, that thank god I have not acted on. Like I'll see these trashy girls who I literally would be grossed out to have in bed and at my worst moments think " I bet she'd be willing to _______" (insert fetishes)

The "healthy sexuality" part of me says: EWWW This girl is crazy, has bad hygiene, flaky, flirting with other dudes in front of you and would be a disaster in your life. She was basically a mid 30s hippie/ hypster gone wrong NOT what I am into.

EDIT: I feel much better after deleting the number and the urges subsided. I'll also note I have heard of people getting addicted prostitutes etc. to engage in PMO related fetishes, now THAT is when things are really bad. ( I think we see this in some famous people, sex scandals etc) Anyways, glad to avert that. Still I'll take last night as a positive a girl talked to me for awhile and was into me for a time, not my type but I'll meet another.

Also to reiterate (my brain was trying to rationalize)
My definition of clean is:
NO PMO (No porn or masturbation or any combination or looking at ads or anything as a way to get off
NO engaging in the specific porn induced fetishes in person ever. (I did once with a CRAZY messed up girl)- Huge error
NO fantasizing about the fetishes conciously (When I do they stay alive doesn't matter how long pmo free)

One last thing (lol). Thankfully I cut it out of my life, but in my PMO related fetishes brief times in my "real" life (soon as I did it I would lose ability to have real normal sex, killed my erections- had me feeling horrible after) , discussing with girls trying to lead them into certain things and see if they were into it. All girls who were interested, had severe mental problems. Seriously, like they were all on pills for mental illness, had severe depression and one had tried to commit suicide. All of them as far as I know spent long periods a lone and either certainly did or likely watched porn. I think that should tell me something (maybe that stuff/ the crazy fetishes aren't all that healthy? : ) )......  It was about 4 girls total and mostly very brief or just us talking about it (Thank god it's been years and I am never doing that again).


 I also could not think of a less rewarding thing. Thanks to rebooting, I have had a few healthy sex partners and two real girlfriends and OMG is real sex connecting and enjoying each other so much better. I didn't even enjoy most of the PMO fetish crap. It was just these weird urges from cumming over and over to nonsense in porn. So I had the desire but didn't enjoy the stuff but then would want to do it again. Addiction stinks.

Anyways, so thats all settled. Still I had a very nice night. On the note of instincts.... I can trust mine more ( the good ones, not the pmo ones lol).


I second guess myself too much. The friend who I had the issues with and am taking a break from. He seemed so important, but now that I am not really in touch with him so much (we texted once). I don't really miss him and I feel a lot calmer and happier. I hung out with a new friend last night and had a great time. The dude was just such a nice person and super positive. He was always pointing out girls saying they liked me and hanging out with him just felt damn good. I have him and another friends number, so by the end of the week I will likely have hung out with two new friends! Honestly, that is likely worth even more then dating a new girl....

So that is good and also teaches me... I am not always the problem. When I am upset I tend to go too self analysis-y like "Ohhh I was imagining that problem with me friend it's like nooooo. There were bad vibes there. He was annoyed with me like all the time for no reason, and it made me feel bad. Whats the proof? He would ignore me all the time AND even more.... I don't feel this with other people. I am hanging out with other people and they just seem ummmmm nicer.

Now that doesn't mean I'll never see the dude again, but this was sooo the right decision. Looking forward to hopefully building up a group of cool friends. I taught myself to be fairly social, I talk to people. But never really had a real "group" of friends. It makes me nervous but i think it'll be really cool to do. Have more freinds and do some of that stuff that scares me, introduce people to each other etc.

 
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 19, 2019, 06:19:06 PM
Awesome self-analysis! It sounds like you're thinking clearly and doing what you need to to protect yourself from making mistakes, and that's awesome.

I think you're right about not pursuing things with that woman. It's one thing if you're genuinely interested in her as a person and in building a relationship with her, but it's another thing if your only motivation is weird sex (maybe the wrong phrase, but you know what I mean). Sometimes, when I think about the things I've seen in porn, I just can't imagine ever doing them to/with a real person. Like, I feel like I would have to have a really low opinion of a woman to even try some (or most) of what I saw in porn. It's just not a good reflection of what real relationships are made of.

And part of that is that porn is selfish, just whatever gets us going as intensely as possible. But a relationship can't be like that. Obviously, we have to think about another person's needs and feelings, so it can't just be about whatever our most extreme fantasies are made of. I'm not sure why I'm writing it all out: you've already said it, but I guess it's helpful for me to think through also. It's a tricky thing with PMO, right? How do we know if our interactions with women are healthy and helpful or just another manifestation of our addiction? I think a lot of it might come down to our motivations.

Also, on a kind of unrelated note, I just wanted to say thanks for the way that you leave blank space for particular pmo fetishes. I'm all for being open and frank, but your strategy is a great way to be honest without being triggering. I know I have sometimes had to back out of some journals because I could feel them getting my dopamine going. Long way of saying: thanks for keeping your journal productive but also safe. It makes a difference.

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 19, 2019, 08:38:47 PM
Thanks bro! Really glad you wrote it all out! Funny how that works, reading the way you put it, actually made more sense and was more clear to me then what I wrote myself. Not really much to add but all of that is nail on the head and really helped to clarify things. Really I have no analysis to add to it but everything nail on the head.

Thanks for the feedback on the blank spaces! I almost didn't realize I was doing it, so glad to hear it is helpful so I'll remember to continue doing it moving forward. I feel good about doing it as well, it's nice to not even write about the specific names and acts, I feel like it gives them less power for me mentally as well. Like it's just PMO fetishes, something from PMO my brain is getting away from all in one category not some specific thing to think about or even give names to.

Update: I am happy that I seem to be changing for the better. Today was a longer work day and a little tiring. I felt slightly down after but then had a great talk with my friend on the phone and came to the forum, also I ate some healthy food. And I now feel pretty good. It's very cool that I had this nice chat with my good friend and ate, I feel 80% recharged even though I had a really long work day and now I have off for the next few days : ). Very grateful for that, I got done basically two days worth of work, now have off but I don't feel remotely overwhelmed and just tired, not exhausted.

My voice held up!! I think it's just a cold, I am the #1 cough drop customer at the moment but that fine by me so long as it works and no permanent damage happens.

So glad about the call with my friend and getting the support on this forum, when I first finished work I felt a little lonely and desperate now I feel much better.  I should clean tonight or tomorrow, getting a little un organized plus still have to set some more goals.

Those positive changes I mentioned is just I seem to be a little "hardier" before me being tired or slightly down would lead to me being just really really sad and anxious now it was just something that lasted a few minutes and was gone after a few healthy pleasant activities. Hoping things keep going this way!

I am at 14 days no conscious fetish fantasy today!! Thats big for me.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: WilltoPower on May 19, 2019, 08:40:38 PM
@Quitforeverthenwin
I understand where your'e coming from and, and I hope you can see that I was not suggesting that you should have gone out with her. The fact that you listed dis-qualifiers shows that you put thought into it. I was merely suggesting that we, as porn addicts, dive deeper into the psychology of porn addiction and sex.

Keep up what you're doing. I think the fact that you consider not engaging in that sexual activity is very smart, and if you really only wanted to engage in that activity and really believed that she was someone that would consent to it while she made the list of dis-qualifiers, then you made the right call.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 20, 2019, 10:38:10 AM
So was coughing a bit last night but feel better this am.

I think I ought to plan out the day... so much I want to do but not sure what to start with!

Cleaning
Groceries
But I also want to do fun things and socialize somehow
Want to progress on dating more
Set more goals.

Hmmmm.

More urges still at night, it's been iffy right on that edge of fantasy it pops in head a lot and I stop it. So I need to increase my efforts and do SOMETHING, to invest in decreasing the urges again. Perhaps work through the smart book some more.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on May 20, 2019, 06:43:45 PM
Just read all your posts since a week ago, it seems like you're making alot of progress dealing with fantasies! I'm 100% with you on tinder, I even downloaded the app at one point and started swiping a little bit and got tons of triggers, thank god I realized what I was doing was really stupid and deleted the app and my account. When I hear about my friends' hookups over the weekend it makes me feel like I missing out a ton, but I try to remind myself to always do what's best for me; just because my friends benefit from hooking up with other women (which I'm not 100% sure is true tbh) doesn't mean that I will get the same enjoyment out of it.

I also completely agree on the fetishes, I think if I were to act out my sick fetishes it would not be enjoyable. At all. Just goes to show the power of our minds, but if we are able to harness that power towards something positive for ourselves and others long-term I think we can look back at our fetishes one day and laugh about how ridiculous it was to be sucked in to them. Atleast that's what I hope.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 20, 2019, 11:57:14 PM
Thanks for the perspective! Earlier today I had thought of going back on that and using tinder with "rules" to allay the issues. Glad to hear your perspective on that and it shows me I should definitely think really really hard about introducing it in my life... Plus good point on not having to follow the crowd, different strokes for different folks.

Yeah big progress on the fantasizing the thing is just to keep it going. Still need to set more goals, but 100% I am doing it tomorrow. In the morning! Tomorrow morning, I'll do a hypnosis recording, then spend 30 min thinking of new goals to set. That's a commitment.


My day: Was not too productive in the morning. Had a so-so workout. But I did clean up a good bit which is really nice. I went to a meetup and no one but me and two girls showed up lol. The girls were not too friendly to me one left. I had tried making friends with them and getting numbers but it didn't pan out.

I went to my dance class and had a decent time but wasn't feeling great. Something interesting  I was already planning my journal entry lol. To write how I was not feeling as well etc. But then I thought "wait, I am still in this class maybe my entry can be I had a great time in class and ended the day well!". The class was pretty good in terms of a workout and it was nice to be around friendly women. I had more energy and then worked out more to make up for earlier in the day. Still was feeling a lil off. But here is where I am really happy with what I did.....

I felt down and did not want to go home... so I decided to watch basketball in a bar, great idea! Putting self out there is always good. I started a conversation with the guy sitting next to me, just being friendly. He ended up being such a nice positive open guy. We talked for like an hour and a half a bunch of people knew him and came and said hi, so I talked with another regular at the bar who was a cool guy too. I put myself out there and invited the original guy to hang out sometime and he was down. Really glad, the guy was soo nice. I would have hung out with him just based on him being a positive cool person, but he also seems pretty connected socially, he told me about all these cool bars and parties etc. So, I don't want to get too high or low but that was cool to make a possible cool friend, which is nice in it's own right. Plus ( I don't want to "use" people) but if he also helps me meet more people that is a nice bonus.

I ended up buying that building a social circle product, I think it was really worth it. Some stuff in there seems like common sense, but I built up my social confidence by sort of strong arming it, going out to talk to people. So my social intelligence and stuff could use work and I think this product helped a lot.

For example I met Cool guy A (the guy I spoke to at length) and his friend Cool guy B came over and chatted with us a bit and we got a long. In the past, I'd like awkwardly/directly ask for both of there numbers, which is weird. Like cool guy B and I were cordial, but you don't just like ask for someones number after friendly small talk.

Instead I more naturally invited cool guy A to something then kind of just chilled and let us exchange numbers naturally. Then was just friendly with cool guy B and said his name so he knows I actually really noticed him. So I learned that from the product I bought and it makes sense. I can hang out with the person I talked to at length and if I want to befriend cool guy B, let it happen naturally. He'll be around most likely if Cool guy A and I hang out then after seeing him a few times like that we can NATURALLY become friends as well, rather then trying to awkwardly force it and get like everyone's numbers I am introduced to.

Maybe a little bit weird sounding to think this much and obvious to some, but I am glad to learn this stuff. It's a weakness of mine, I learned to make conversation and a good impression but hadn't yet managed to iron out the details of making friends, I'd be overly aggressive and to the point in getting people's info/making plans. So I am really happy with this progress and I think it'll help me a lot.

Plus goes to show putting self out there is nice. I "wasted" time today going to an empty meetup and did not enjoy the reactions I got BUT I conciously was not hard on myself... I thought "I am no fortune teller, I went there to take action to hopefully meet people I could not have predicted it'd be bad.... AND I don't want to be too hard on myself because if I am, I'll be upset and that will make it HIGHER RISK to try new things". Because, if I try something and it does not work and I beat myself up and feel miserable the stakes are high, I can't really try new things because I'll be devastated if it does not work out...  But if I can try new things, have it not work out and just be like a little annoyed, I know I can handle it, so it's easier to go for it more often, thus giving things more chances to work out.

Then, I went out to improve my mood. Took the chance to talk to the guy next to me, then took the chance to aim to turn him into a friend I'll hang out with and so far seems like it worked out decently.

Also--> Being open and cool to everyone is such a good policy. When I started talking to this dude, I had ZERO clue he had anything going on for him or any friends. He was alone at the bar. I just thought I'd talk to him and be friendly and boost both of our nights. Turns out he knows everyone and every cool place in town. Not saying I shouldn't still value him as a person if he didn't have that. But it's still cool and I am actually much happier to get connections/ opportunities this way, organically then if I had idk like tried to befriend this guy because I knew he could connect me to things, you know?

My social skills still need some ironing out (especially some bad habits popped up with girls) so I may start journaling for myself privately as well, just what happened in the day. I tend to learn a lot and be better socially when I do that and learn very quickly since I go over my day and remember things that I had previously forgotten. It works really well and used to help me in old jobs of mine too.

Have a good night everyone! So glad to see you back Pichael definitely was also an extra boost for me seeing your back and doing well!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 21, 2019, 02:04:32 AM
Woke up in middle of night with some pretty strong urges. Feeling like I NEED SEX NOW. Which is obviously very irrational and is purely an urge thought that leads to other bad places. I went to rest room, brushed teeth to freshen up and have been reading a bit. Once I got back in bed I felt I wanted to fantasize but here I am posting instead to break up the thought pattern (good). I did not take the time to sit down and write/ do some smart stuff.

Now I am COMMITTING. It's nice I had an easy week, now I need to do a bit more. So that's what I'll do.

Edit: Went to success stories and read one and watched this Gabe Deem video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4yx4ouxGbQ

Been so long since I watched this stuff/ researched and it gave me good perspective. Remember what is happening also a reminder that this road is a long one. Good I am building up a social circle and not only focused on dating.... it'll likely be awhile before I am having a really robust sex life! I forgot about flatlines after orgasms etc.

It got me thinking
1) It could be nice to find a rewire partner/ cuddle buddy. Since that was necessary for me to regain erections in past. (So perhaps I can come up with a plan on this front)
2) Perhaps I can continue putting more into other areas of my life. Since though I don't want to accept it, it could be awhile before a robust sex life is part of my life. Takes a looonngggg time to be able to have sex often it seems (for many people at least). I ought to not think about it, it takes as long as it takes. Anyway, but perhaps I can get more work stuff going, get a side hustle going, things to feel good about. Just keeping to build up my life.
3) Okay, it may be something that REALLY needs to be controlled, but I am considering a tiny bit of online dating (or maybe I should find something else). Since I would like some more dating experience in a lower risk environment. Maybe find a more conservative platform even? Even something for religous girls so I could rewire? That may be a good idea.... Try and go on dates with religous girls develop companionship/ rewire. I actually met a girl this way years ago, she was open to casual dating just not having sex before marriage. Honestly if I can find a girl like that for awhile, casually dating sex off the table, rewiring that could be ideal.

Aside from that: as mentioned, rededicate! It is so critical I keep moving forward, I am still on track but let's get even more on track. Like I was a few days ago with less of these thougths popping into my head, get that morning wood again etc. And have those fetishes lose their appeal  more and more.

Edit: I keep thinking to myself... it's 7:00pm tinder would be busy I should quickly make an account and maybe get a date tonight!!!! Then my mind starts going to---> I don't have the right photos, I should just go on there with whatever and try and get a girl interested in PMO fetishes. So obviously this is NOT a healthy impulse. GRRRR I had a plan this evening that was a really good idea but it got cancelled, kind of bummed out. What to do What to do... Really not sure. Feeling desperate and lonely .
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 21, 2019, 06:05:04 PM
So, I don't feel as well as I did last week BUT I want to make sure I remember how good I felt. That week or so was enough to show me, at least I am for sure not brain damaged or anything like that. I can be calmer and happier.

Two days ago I did not do my hypnosis recording and yestarday I could not focus during it. Not sure how much that contributed since yesterday was a more down day for sure. I have work again coming up tomorrow, perhaps that'll be a nice boost for me. I also should not forget that I am doing a good amount of the right things and sure I am in in a dip, feeling sadder again some of that anxiety in the chest, but it stinks but it is not as bad as it was last time.

I texted two of my new friends, no answers yet. Really made me anxious, but someone else texted me there number, an aquaintance from the building, they are leaving my city soon BUT, shouldn't I still be grateful for that?

A little frustrated with my anxious feelings, worrying about people getting back to me, whether they will etc. Building up the social circle is good but also I think having a path/purpose may be really good for me too. I was watching this video one of these dating guru types, some of what he said seemed relevant. Saying when you have a purpose and a path you don't care so much if people respond to you etc. since you are on your path. That may be good for me getting more and more purposeful and goal driven, making things happen....

Also, maybe a little more approaching women could be good? I kind of stopped that and although I want other ways to meet women, my ummm idk leads of women has really dried up lol.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 21, 2019, 06:19:56 PM
Sorry you're a little down: it's got me today too. But I do like the idea of remembering how good you felt last week. I could definitely do that more. I could also afford to COMMIT more (I like the all caps). I'm trying to figure out the difference between a relaxing day and a wasted day, and I think some commitment would help, like even a little schedule to help me know that I'm at least making progress and not just waiting for time to pass.

Glad you're making progress, though, and thinking clearly through the triggers/urges. Just being able to step back and realize what is going on is huge. Urges have always won out when I failed to step back and realize what was happening, so keep it up!

And you're welcome! The blank spaces are great, and I think it's cool that they have a similar effect for you too as you write them.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on May 21, 2019, 08:47:46 PM
That's some really good insight, I often find that I am good at having a purpose and path at some things (like my music, working out, eating healthy) and not so much at others (connecting with people). I'm trying to find a better way to integrate friends (and eventually a relationship) into my purpose and path, as good relationships can help with all other facets of life. At the same time though, you don't necessarily need anyone to be awesome and accomplish amazing things, so if you are able to set goals on your own and achieve them, I think the feeling of neediness gets less...while the desire for others may still be there it can be easier to channel towards positive actions since you can feel like you can take risks and the worse that happens is you'll just be your normal, awesome self again rather than feeling like you are returning to your sad, miserable life.

Sorry if this is just random thinking lol, you're doing great dealing with unpleasant feelings and finding solutions for them! After everything I just said, I am still in the process of figuring things out (and always may be) but part of life is just having goals and beliefs only to change them and go in a new direction later.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 22, 2019, 08:08:49 PM
Thanks for the support guys! Not in the mood to write too much, so I may be a bit brief.

But both of you nails on the head. Scheduling is huge (did some today) and I think I really do need more of a purpose.

Still on the path, though it is rough. Worked through smart manual today for 30 min. First time in awhile. My emotions were not there with me, but I suppose repetition will fix that. Went for a run, felt better during it.

Had a girl flake, not happy but handled it fairly well. I am slightly annoyed with myself because I feel like I could see it coming. I just got triggered for a second.

Anyways, the good is I had a very productive day. Not sure what the rest of the evening holds......

Also: Being on a path is SOOO key! Need that and higher standards of women I go for. If I felt I had options many of the women I pursue I would not even consider
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 22, 2019, 11:13:41 PM
Feeling a bit better. Some urges popping up here and there. .
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 23, 2019, 02:04:53 AM
Well, I had a sort of slip. Bummer. I had really strong urges, fell into fantasy for a minute then went back to it. Almost posted here but did not, sort of wish I did now.

The slip could have been worse: I went on an escort website and looked at the adds there for about 10 minutes and saw about 5 seconds of a clip of one of them other then that it was images. Did not watch videos other then that or go on any porn websites. No masturbation. I am a little bummed out like fuck man you want your dick to work! That moves away from that goal.... But, again being upset won't help anything. It could have been way way worse, and if there is any upside, it is that I did not enjoy any of it all that much. I fantasized and did not enjoy it as much, then I went and looked at images and did not enjoy it as much either.

The one negative is.... honestly the urge was very very powerful and the slip did provide relief. Hmmmm, thats sort of an issue.

Well, I guess I can look at it like this: It is all a process of improvement. I got as far as I could get on that current streak, now I am starting a new one (sort of). I think perhaps I will categorize this mentally maybe not as a streak ended, as I looked at some images and fantasized but did not watch PMO videos nor tough my penis at all. I think that may be a better way to categorize it. I noticed mentally having the desire to MO when I thought of it as a slip. But really it is not the same thing at all, MOing would REALLY break my streak and be devastating. So I'll view this as a moderate mis step then rather then a lapse.

On to tomorrow then! Sill, gotta stay vigilant as I still feel the urge to MO right now. But let's remember why I am here.... I haven't lost everything my dick probably still works right now and these fetishes and PMO would lead me down the drain!

Also, I suppose I'll make some sort of adjustment to my program..... This certainly did not happen for my lack of trying...... I put in more into today then I have in sometime. Grrr. Too much thinking. At the end of the day, if there was a gun to my head I would not have done that. Really, their is one and only one solution. I have got to toughen back up and be tougher next time.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 23, 2019, 02:11:16 AM
One other thing. I think I need to be more optimistic and control my mind more. Even night I was waking up at 2:30 am even writing that is already putting me into "wimp mode". Like it's just like "waaahhhh I wake up with incredibly strong urges already in fantasy not even knowing what is going on."

I ought to be more proactive and positive. "Well, that happened for a few nights but fuck it, I DOUBT it'll happen tonight and if it does, I will immediately jump out of bed and get out of my room and it'll be gone in a second".

See that right there is the solution (I want to put was, but I can not change the past). Like- Okay, I know the urges have been waking me up in the middle of the night. I could handle that shit in like 5 minutes. Have the plan as soon as they wake me up. IMMEDIATELY get out of bed and go for a walk for just 5 min and that'd be enough to handle it. It's almost like being in a trance, but it's easy enough to break IMO. So, now I have a plan. Next time that happens. IMMEDIATELY out of bed.

Good thing I did not PMO/MO. Really the problem came down to arrogance. I had weak/ minimal urges for sometime so I forgot how to handle them..... get my self out of bed (like there is a damn rattlesnack in my bed!) and do something else. It seems hard but once out of bed it really isn't.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on May 23, 2019, 07:33:24 AM
Nice job figuring out ways to deal with urges. Yeah I've also had times where I've slipped up and looked at women online, wether it be tinder, google images, youtube. etc. One strategy I like to use (when I get the urge to do something questionable) is think of my ideal self- the person I hope to be one day, and ask "what would this guy do; right now, in this situation?" It kind of removes the self from the emotional pull of it all and makes you think and just answer a question with more logic. I got this strategy from Marcus Aurelius' philosophy of stoicism, which is based on always doing what's right regardless of thoughts and feelings, bc if you do that your thoughts and feelings will improve on there on (as we all know though, it is not a direct path and it takes longer than we hope). Sending good vibes!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Lero on May 23, 2019, 07:41:52 AM
Nice job figuring out ways to deal with urges. Yeah I've also had times where I've slipped up and looked at women online, wether it be tinder, google images, youtube. etc. One strategy I like to use (when I get the urge to do something questionable) is think of my ideal self- the person I hope to be one day, and ask "what would this guy do; right now, in this situation?" It kind of removes the self from the emotional pull of it all and makes you think and just answer a question with more logic. I got this strategy from Marcus Aurelius' philosophy of stoicism, which is based on always doing what's right regardless of thoughts and feelings, bc if you do that your thoughts and feelings will improve on there on (as we all know though, it is not a direct path and it takes longer than we hope). Sending good vibes!

This came exactly at the right moment. I just relapsed because I failed to deal with the urges. This has been a problem for me for the last two weeks. But you know what's ironic? I actually know what to do but for some reason, I did nothing. I sat in the chair like a lazy motherfucker. I had things to do, I could've done them, but instead I let myself slip to downloading a movie. I am trying not to repeat the same mistakes again. That's the idea. Remove all the ways you mistake until you don't mistake at all. But you have to pay attention.

I like the idea of thinking about the ideal self. "What would this guy do?" My ideal self would not download the movie. But I will get there, eventually. Next time I won't just sit in front of the computer and let the urges dominate me. I have to think about something to do.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 23, 2019, 09:28:07 AM
Thanks Pichael! That is a really good tip. Also what a coincidence, I was interested in reading some stocicism and literally last night bought Letter's from a stoic by senecca! I also saw some of marcus arelius' books on the shelf's, so I will check out some of his books as well for sure.

I felt just a little ashamed, but glad to have the support and see that stuff like this is not necessarily the end of the world. Now, I realize I was making errors and have to make some adjustments to my program, positive adjustments really.

The problem boils down to one main thing: I put 100% effort into the "helpful things", so much effort that it was to the detriment of the NECESSARY things.


So, I had made several commitments on here to go two weeks without fantasizing about the fetish's I didn't make it. SO, I wrote the goal down privately and read it everyday, it was helpful BUT I also made my goal, no thinking of sex at all while in bed and really I was trying to eliminate every sexual thought in my head and felt like I was almost lapsing if I thought sexually at all.

I would have thoughts of a real girl and things we talked about pop into my head and I was treating it like was the devil pushing it out of my head.

Now we do know, this is can be a slippery slope, but I seem to have confused myself: The thing to do was to be cautious and not over do it. Rather then trying to make myself completely A-Sexual. This worked for like 9 days but after that I went nuts. The problem is for me, is I had looking at images online, fetishes and thinking about a real women in the same category THEY ARE NOT. Too much thinking about real women could be a trigger but I can have some sexual thoughts.

Not 100% how to describe but I guess it's like the "fuck it" phenomenon. We all know if we slip, so MO once, it's easy to say "fuck it" and slip again.  I put "any thought of a woman" almost in the slip category so me getting any sexual thoughts had me feel like I was already losing it. So basically I over extended putting huge effort into something and neglecting.

2) Handling REAL urges and having a plan. Simple, I already know what to do. PMO FETISH, MO or PMO urges = distract self. Get out of bed, work on a skill briefly etc. That is how to defeat an urge.

So rather then using up all my mental energy trying to have 0 sexual thoughts, keep my eyes on the prize... it's okay for me to think about women JUST be careful about it and keep it in moderation. Put that energy into the really important shit eliminating what I consider actual ummm loses of PMO sobriety.
PMO
Fetish fantasy
Acting on PMO fetish's
And fantasy stinks but is less bad then the rest.

ALSO: On point two, I have been very focused on motivation. I wrote down things to motivate myself, but lately had been neglecting the MOST IMPORTANT processes, the nuts and bolts... I was staying motivated, living a healthy lifestyle, wrote in the smart book to aid myself, but could have been reviewing, rather then just my motivations.... what to actual do at the most basic to stay clean: Having a plan of action/ ideas of what to do, when urges occur. (Since I seem to have forgotten).

Lastly, I was treating myself like I had no control over myself if that makes sense. Like, I used tinder for a long time without a problem, in one particular way..... i had tinder gold, where it shows you who swiped on you. I simply NEVER would look at pictures, just see who swiped on me very briefly and that was that. Not to say tinder isn't a risk but idk basically my general point is.... I put so much effort into avoiding all RISKS that I think I subconciously forgot that I had control of myself, so when I had the urges I forgotten how to have self control... make sense? On top of that I simply wasted a ton of energy and can simplify.

Cliffs: Do the crucial: No PMO, no MO, no fetish fantasy, no fetish with partners (rarely comes up). The rest be a little more laissez faire, but just be aware nothing leads to too strong urges.



Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 23, 2019, 05:32:49 PM
Sorry about the slip, but way to keep it from being as bad as it could have been. Keep at it (not that you need me to say it): I would hardly call this a step backwards.

Man, though, your last post raises some tough issues that I've been thinking about on and off for a while. Like, for one, the goal of recovery definitely can't be to become asexual, but it can feel like that sometimes. I don't have much to say that's productive, but I feel that. For such a long time every sexual thought that I've had has basically led me to unhealthy behavior, so what even is a healthy sexual thought? What is healthy sexuality when you're one your own? If you figure that out, let me know. But I know just trying to shut it all down is definitely not a road to success.

I also think a lot about the balance between external controls and internal ones. We go to a lot of trouble sometimes to block our browsers and delete apps and everything else to take away our access to porn. But then is that really progress because we're getting better or just because we don't have access to P? Sometimes, I've found myself thinking that I shouldn't have any blockers or anything so that I learn how to deal with things on my own instead of relying on filters and stuff. But I remember hearing someone say once that we do things like lock our doors and buy security systems for our houses to protect ourselves from physical threats, so why not install filters on our browsers to keep clear of addictive threats? They can't replace our own efforts at recovery, but I do know they help. It seems like the first step to a period of constant relapses is acting like I don't need the filters anymore.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 24, 2019, 12:31:09 AM
Quickly going to acknowledge so NUTTY thoughts I was having just now. Going to shut that stuff down. The little slip caused a bit of a chaser effect.

I do appreciate you saying keep at it! Always helpful and thanks! I was feeling a bit bad and like I took a step back. Time to get back on it.

I really appreciate your thoughts, because whenever you flesh something out like this it gets me thinking and aids me in reflecting on my own recovery. This is one issue that has a simple answer for me....

OF course we should use the filters... I wish I could figure out how to get them on my phone.... At the end of the day, if it works it works. Speaking of internal controls... if our mind is on board to do something, quit pmo or whatever, wouldn't it make sense for our mind to seek out and use every possible resource available to it? If filters work, I can not think of any practical reason to not use them, any good rationalization.

It reminds me of this: I had a friend who got really fat. He got all excited about losing weight and said he was going to do it. I went to his house and he had junk food in all of the cabinets.... We were both all excited and planned on working out together and eating healthy and stuff (I was going to do this to support him and it's good to do anyway). I am like "yeah bro awesome let's throw out all of this junk food!". He said "No, I want to keep it here... what if my little brother comes here and wants to eat it... I want to feel in control like I can have the junk food here and not like I have to throw it out and can't control it".

I said okay, but silently sighed to myself, I knew 100% that he was going to eat that junk food. A year later, he is just as fat. ( I may sound a little harsh, but this is the guy who I stopped talking to since he was ignoring me all the time and I had gone on the diet with HIM just to support him and he repaid me by ignoring me for months and  being irritable to me , when I guess he fell off the wagon).

Anyway, point being. It's simpler with junk food. I don't eat it so keep that shit out of the house! I haven't had junk food, even a little in many months, my father visited and left some cookies here, I was tempted to eat them one day.... so i threw them out.

Bottom line: Practical. Whatever works to cut out pmo works. No reason to make extra challenges. Because if the internal is right, we want it gone. Let's use every tool there is.  Just the way I see it.

In my situation, thinking about sex too much can be bad. But for now, thinking about REAL woman as my motivation, normally is bad but is keeping me from another slip (which would be real bad) so I'll  think about real women for now. Not like fantasy, thinking about what I want. How nice it'll be have working penis, connections with women, confidence all that.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 24, 2019, 06:26:15 PM
Good to acknowledge the thoughts! Shut it on down!

Always glad to hear my rambling is helpful, lol. I like the point about your friend who is still fat. I know in the past I've tried to come back from a relapse and put up blockers and stuff but then I'd spend a lot of time thinking about the kinds of things I'd search for next, like "If I ever lapsed again, not that I would, but if I did, I'd totally search for _____." Total garbage. Telling myself I won't relapse while planning my next binge. The things we tell ourselves when we're out of control. I'm happy to say that I don't have a plan for my next relapse: I really actually don't want to have one now.

And you're spot-on with thinking too much about sex. It has gotten me so many times, just a thought here or there about what it would be like to have sex in a stable, healthy relationship, but then it leads to other thoughts that make my brain feel good and the next thing I know I'm in trouble. It's tough, but it's good to be aware of. When I do think about relationships, I try to make sure I'm not fantasizing about sex, but it still happens, just not as much.

Also (because I haven't written enough yet), just a couple thoughts about blockers for the phone. First, I set up the parental controls on mine so that I only have access to specific whitelisted websites that I use regularly. That's helpful because then there aren't any "gaps" that I can find my through: everything is blocked. That's been helpful for me, especially since I set my password to be something that I really want that PMO seems to be in the way of: now whenever I feel like turning off the controls, I have to think through losing the thing that is my password.

I've also had a lot of success with OpenDNS. It's a free thing that you can set up either on your router or on your devices, and I think it has been the most helpful filter for me. It just shuts it all down: there are various settings for different content that you want blocked and then it just makes it so that you can't load any of those sites. Not a solution for when you're not home, but I only have trouble at home anyway. (We might have already talked about this now that I've written out...if so, what a lucky repeat)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 24, 2019, 11:41:41 PM
Sorry guys: I just really did lapse. Unequivocally my day count is at 0.

Warning: You are going to see some of my real demons in the description below, I left out triggering words I believe, but it's gonna show that legit messed up addiction side of me.

I did a host of nonsense. Ending with me going back on an escort website website and calling one to see if she would engage in pmo fetishes and tentatively set an appointment. Then I was like holy fuck! This is way way worse. So I told her sorry, it's a no go. Then I was in bed feeling strong urges. I thought to myself "I can cum from humping my pillow". I again, will be real. I thought to myself: I will just like do that rub myself against the pillow to cum and then in my journal I can say I had a wet dream and euphemistically be like "oh yeah I think I was rubbing against my pillow at night when I was half asleep". Basically lie to act like it was not a real slip. After finishing, I immediately just masturbated the normal way, my penis was totally flaced and I got like no pleasure out of it but somehow came.

This all started with 1) Going on escort website- and let me be real- I specifically looked for escorts who offered fetishes and stuff. Really that was as porn as anything . I bullshited myself and the journal. It was not like looking at youtube vids, that for me is like the worst porn. Since I fantasize about contacting them and actually have in the past.

Then, the next day I downloaded tinder. Was on it totally compulsively for like a few hours. Even with not swiping pictures, I kept using boosts and was compulsively checking it, which left me with really strong urges to go back on escort websites. I managed to get a very unnattractive girl's number and was messaging her trying to lead her into being into pmo fetishes, she was not. But in my mind she was.

She came over. It was miscommunication she wanted a relationship (by coming straight to my place at 11 on a friday lol) and I wanted a hookup. She expressed disappointment and told me she is broke and could barely afford the uber over. (Sad girl really). We chatted a bit and I got her an uber back home. Then soon after I ummmm, kept looking at my phone and thinking "I should contact escort" that happend maybe three times then I did and you all know the rest.

So that's it. I officially have lapsed. Let me be honest too, I lapsed twice. My stuff about tinder being maybe okay was nonsese lol. (I should have noticed in seeing EVERYONE agreeing it's good to STAY AWAY). I feel bad to let you guys down and hope i didn't discourage anyone.

I don't feel hopeless at all. It is what it is. Perhaps this will be the last time in my life that this ever happens.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: LeanAndBop on May 25, 2019, 02:44:59 AM
Hey Quit
Sorry this happened. Hope you are OK. Really wasn't shocked or appalled at anything I read. I can relate to the desperation. At least you are sharing it, this is surely positive.
Wishing you all the best
Bop
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 25, 2019, 08:05:49 AM
Well the relapse continued,

Before I go into the craziness: Thanks so much leanandbop! That means a ton. I feel like when I write the really crazy shit people are going to read it and be like "oh fuck this guy is way more crazy and messed up then I thought... I don't want to read this shit anymore!". Also thanks for keeping up posting on your journal when you had that rough patch it's really a big part of the inspiration for me to continue posting



More craziness:

 I masturbated several times this am. With not much resistance. Urge: Then did it. Wrote a long post analyzing a lot of things, I wrote about how maybe I shouldn't try and date so many girls and should just focus on a relationship and then put all that energy into business, then I thought "Hey! Maybe if I succeed in business and am not going to date a bunch of girls, I could just make money and pay escorts all the time!" Then I masturbated on that thought.  Well, if I can have one positive.... In all the years I have been fighting this I have never fully quit. I have looked at porn, I have masturbated. I have even texted or called escorts as some strange compulsion. But at least I have not masturbated while looking at porn since 2015.

Anyways- Lessons:
Over analysis maybe not helpful?
Start meditating again! EVERYDAY- Feeling like it or convenience be damned. I MUST DO THIS to be aware enough to handle my urges. Simple as that.
Have a mental program- meditating plus probably visualizing and/or hypnosis EVERYDAY. None of this "I make things to hard, I should ease off"---> That is how my fat friend thinks and I think I absorbed some of his thinking. What works for me is just do the work. Part of the sobriety is meditating each day simple as that.


Edit: Midday now- At least any thought that doing this stuff was okay has been proven wrong. Feel so drained like moving is tough.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 25, 2019, 01:10:10 PM
Was thinking of K-dot's journal.... as inspiration. He mentioned he had several 100+ day streaks 60+ day streaks etc. and now he is where I want to be.... so get back to it. Maybe I should write here a bit less though.... Not stop, but do less.

I think, I was thinking about it too much. For sure honestly. Better to mostly live as if it does not exist...
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 25, 2019, 05:10:00 PM
Quit! Sorry to hear about it. I don't think you're any more crazy or messed up than any of the rest of us: we're all dealing with addiction, and we all know that it just takes over sometimes. Whenever I lapse, it's like a different part of me switches on, and I'm just looking up and doing all kinds of things that "real" me wouldn't do, no resistance, no trying to stop myself, just a flood of garbage, and I end up on the other side wondering how it happened. Really sorry all this happened, sorry that it escalated to include other people too. But I'm glad you're still in it and that you have a plan for moving forward.

Real talk, though: you've already said it, but you saw this coming from a mile way. It didn't have to happen, but it did get to the point where the addiction took over. I usually see my lapses coming from a mile away, too. I spend some time "flirting" with non-PMO stuff until it just takes over and that's it. I'm toast. This might be a weird thing to say, but it might be helpful to acknowledge that you *like* PMO. For me, I thought for a long time that I was trying to train myself not to like it, so every time I had a fun (sexual) thought or a feeling of arousal, I was like, "oh, guess I still like it...guess I'll go find some porn." But who wouldn't like it? It's a whole thing our brains have evolved to perpetuate the species: we're supposed to like it! But that "like" is out of control. So, for me lately, I've been focusing less on trying to stop "liking" PMO and more on trying to be aware of when I'm at risk of being taken over by that like and what I can do to redirect. It has made me far more careful about little pleasure triggers, women on TV or around town, etc., because I still have control then. Those feelings of sexual pleasure have started to become a warning system instead of a guilty pleasure.

I'm still working at it, and I'm far from perfect. Thinking like this has helped me, though, to be more in tune with what is going on in my mind and body. If I start to feel those sexual (addictive) feelings, I recognize that I'm in trouble when I can still do something about it. If I spend too much time with those "harmless" pleasures, it doesn't take long before they take over. So I just have to ask myself, do I want a life without PMO more, or do I want to keep these "harmless" pleasures more? I probably can't have both.

So take it for what it's worth. We've all been in the weirdness of addiction, so it's going to take more than a bad relapse to chase us away, man. What's more, I know you're thoughtful and reflective enough not to let this lapse go to waste. You'll learn from it and come back even stronger than before! Tomorrow is a fresh, new day!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 26, 2019, 05:11:54 PM
Thanks man! Feel a lot better reading that, wish I had read it before!

I continued the lapse today, more of the same.

A few things:
1) I felt un worthy to post in other people's journals and offer support. But I figured hell, when things were good I did that and it seemed to be helpful, so going to make myself do it again.
2) My current lapses, from yesterday and today: I would be out and about, feeling good. Then as I started heading home.... I would get this anticipation and plan to do it once I got inside. It's a recurrent fantasy, now for the last two days.
Simple: I need a game plan to handle that. I need to make it in advance.
3) It happened before the lapse, but I started forgetting my motivations for quitting and am still kind of there to be honest. I guess when lapsing the drives and desires for other things leaves and the mind is so irrational. Thinking it's fine but in reality I am not getting shit done and acting crazy as hell.
GRRRR.

4) I masturbated again before even posting... At least I forced myself away from CRAZY fucking pmo fetishes and made myself imagine a sweet looking cute girl and quite "conventional" sex with connection.

Honestly, felt pretty good about that and a little confidence boost. What a different mental state that was.... (My pmo fetishes are a bit depraved).

Okay, for the very least... My hierarchy of avoidance.
1) Contacting escorts
2) Escort website
3) Tinder
4) Masturbation with fetish fantasy
5) Fetish fantasy
6) Masturbation with "vanilla" fantasy.

I suppose I will analyze a bit.... Me contacting escorts as a part of my lapses came about (INSANELY) when I was aiming to quit PMO and was thinking I MUST not masturbate at all costs I was very tirggered and thought "I'll see an escort instead!" (1000% worse). Of course the contacting etc. was so much worse and led to me masturbating several times afterward...............

So that is what happened again on this lapse the first time (no mo) Second time (with mo) and third time : (. with mo. I want so bad to avoid masturbation at all costs, then the fucking crazy addicted part of the mind finds another outlet, but one that is far far worse. So, it is better to masturbate then it is to fucking contact escorts like a psycho path. So, will keep that in mind moving forward.

Now maybe I am going back on some of what I have said in the past but....... maybe it is possible for me to masturbate in a healthy(ish) way? The start of the lapse came with me thinking "am I really never going to masturbate again in my life?

Thinking:
Fetishes: Yes, as bluehero said these may provide "pleasure" but if I could snap my fingers (even aside from pmo) and have them gone, would I? HELL YES.
PORN: HELL YES
Contacting escorts/ going on website: FUCKING HELLLLL YES.

Masturbation to vanilla thoughts: If I could do it healthily I'd be fine with having it as a part of my life.

Maybe rationalizations just after lapsing are not relevant. (After lapse 1 I thought tinder was A - Okay! And it was a disaster). But idk.... sighhh... will seee. For now like the next day or two, rather then fetish stuff I am going to aim to make myself think vanilla when I masturbate..... I am going to give myself a few days before I cut masturbation back out (maybe even one day). Rather then doing this really really bad crazy shit.

Also guys: I am totally open to feedback on what I just wrote on masturbating? Is this just addict rationalization bullshit? Let me know. I had written about stopping masturbation etc. before and know others cut it out tooo....
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 26, 2019, 06:48:10 PM
First of all, there's no worthiness requirement for posting in my journal. I know that feeling of not feeling worthy, but I'm not here because I want to talk to guys who don't have any trouble with PMO. I'm here to talk to guys who are trying to beat it, even if they slip up from time to time.

I also really know the feeling of going on a walk to get away from urges and then planning a binge on the way back home. Not really sure what to do about it since those sorts of things always got me in the past. My most recent pattern has been to go about a month without PMO and then to slip into a day or two binge that just had to run its course before I could get back into control. Once it gets going, it seems impossible to stop, so I've just been focusing on catching myself earlier. It's way easier to back off when I spend a little too long looking at a girl at school than when I'm on my computer with porn. Keep an eye out for those early triggers, and do what you need to do.

Which brings me to your question about masturbation. It's a tough one, probably, but I'll throw my two cents in, and you can take wherever you want. I remember reading somewhere that every porn problem is really a masturbation problem, and the problem with PMO is that all three components reinforce each other. P and M are the behaviors, but O is the reward that keeps us coming back for more. So, for me anyway, every time I've gone to porn in the last couple years, it has started with an urge for MO, so just quitting P would mean only dealing with part of a larger addictive cycle that includes MO. For me, they're all the same thing, and they're all poor substitutes for the kind of solid romantic/sexual relationship I really want. I guess MO works for some people, but I can't separate PMO from MO, and I think MO would always pull me back to porn eventually.

Also, I hear you when you say the lapse started when you were thinking about never masturbating again. That can be a scary thought. PMO has been, weird as it is to say, comforting to me for a long number of years. Whenever things got too intense for me to deal with, I could escape in PMO. Right, it's fun, freeing, exciting. But it doesn't fix anything (you know that). Because there's a (hopefully shrinking) part of me that genuinely likes porn and masturbation, it can be really hard to think about giving it up forever. I also read once somewhere that PMO triggers the same hormones that make us feel good in relationships, the hormones that make us love girlfriends and make mothers love babies. PMO messes with some heavy stuff in our brains, and we form a kind of attachment that feels like love on some level. So of course it seems impossible to live life without it: I remember wondering how in the world I was going to continue living a normal life after breaking up with someone I really loved (and that breakup pushed me into a long series of PMO binges, actually). Sometimes, I start to worry about how I'll live life without PMO, but that's at least something that counting days has helped me deal with. It tricks my brain into thinking I'm just going to go today without it, and I can definitely go one day. And then I go another. And another. Part of my recovery process is not just stopping but also learning to be comfortable with a life without PMO.

So here comes the point, I suppose. Of course there's a part of you that's reluctant to give up MO. You've benefited from it in certain ways throughout your life, but those benefits have also come with real costs. For me, PMO, MO, P, PM, and whatever else are all the same thing. They're all unhealthy sexual behaviors that I use to cope with other stresses in life. They are not part of a healthy sexual life for me, and I don't think they can be. And I guess that's what it comes down to: I'm not just trying to quit porn, I'm trying to quit addiction and to not need to rely on the dopamine from PMO to get through life. So, for me, MO can't be on the table.

And,  based on what you wrote here, it sounds like your nostalgia for masturbation didn't just push you a quick and harmless MO. It led you all the way into something "1000% worse." So I don't know, maybe there is room for MO in your life, but it also seems like it could be more trouble than it's worth, especially if it was thoughts about masturbation that pushed you over the edge this time.

Good luck with another day. We'll get where we're going sooner or later, one day at a time!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Lero on May 27, 2019, 04:46:16 AM
I also really know the feeling of going on a walk to get away from urges and then planning a binge on the way back home. Not really sure what to do about it since those sorts of things always got me in the past. My most recent pattern has been to go about a month without PMO and then to slip into a day or two binge that just had to run its course before I could get back into control. Once it gets going, it seems impossible to stop, so I've just been focusing on catching myself earlier. It's way easier to back off when I spend a little too long looking at a girl at school than when I'm on my computer with porn. Keep an eye out for those early triggers, and do what you need to do.
Man, I know exactly what you mean with this because I've done it. I would have urges, go out for a walk, trying to stay away from watching P only to run back home and PMO anyway.

About masturbation: If it's a self-medication, I don't think it's a good thing. And yes, I'm also at the point where that's why I would do it. It's not part of a "healthy sexual behavior" or whatever. It would send me back to PMO eventually, that's how I feel so I guess I'd have to stay away from it, at least for a period of time until I figure it out.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on May 28, 2019, 03:32:51 PM
@Quit, everything you have experienced these last few days, including looking up escorts, inviting girls over on tinder, MOing to make compromises to your brain, is shockingly similar to my past experiences; it's almost as if I am reading my own journal. Like @Blueheron said, today is a new day. We all have the opportunity to hit a reset button and be a different person that we were yesterday, even if our thoughts don't change much our actions can. Even if you were to relapse 1,000,000 times, the step towards recovery is always right in front of you, and we will be here to lend a hand and help any way we can.

As far as figuring out what is healthy vs unhealthy sexual behavior, I always try and think of the motives behind it all. Am I doing this ONLY for myself, or will my behavior benefit someone else? Even when I was hooking up with girls in college, I did not really care much about how the girl felt, as my motive was doing it for experience and approval of others. One thing I believe very strongly is that MO, PM, or even just P or M (or even just fantasizing) will NEVER benefit the people around me. I know I am guaranteed to enjoy these things and sometimes even feel better for a certain period of time later, but to be your best around others is to be your most honest self. When I PMO I feel unable to do that with anyone, especially with girls I would like to date.

@BlueHeron I also worry about how I can possibly live my life without PMO, as the question to "will I ever masturbate or watch porn again?" ideally is a "no." The thought of giving it up for life seems impossible or nearly impossible given how pleasurable it is, which is why I try to frame it as more of a journey than me striving towards some nearly impossible goal. Day by day, moment to moment, we can always be present and let urges wash over us, as there is no urge that is so powerful that it will physically make you watch P and MO. We are all struggling, but part of "beating" the struggle is trying to find enjoyment in the pain of discipline and restraint. It may sound a little fucked up in a "pain is pleasure" kind of way, but to me, that option has allowed me to discover more in life and create more opportunities for growth than PMO has or ever will.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Lero on May 28, 2019, 04:10:15 PM
Pichaelthompson, good ideas, man!

Quote
today is a new day. We all have the opportunity to hit a reset button and be a different person that we were yesterday, even if our thoughts don't change much our actions can. Even if you were to relapse 1,000,000 times, the step towards recovery is always right in front of you.
That's actually right. The past is past and we can't change it but we can do things today and get to a place where we are better. That's why I tell people not to beat themselves up after relapses or periods when their relapses are out of control. A terrible state of mind can be a facilitator for relapses and binges. We should not let this addiction make us super depressed because when you are depressed, you don't see the light at the end of the tunnel and you don't want to hear about "today is a new day, even if you've been going through a period of out of control binges, you can still start from today." You know what I mean? I'm coming from a big binge, like "good old days" (ironically), 8 PMOs like when I was in fucking high school but what good is being super depressed about it now?
Quote
I also worry about how I can possibly live my life without PMO, as the question to "will I ever masturbate or watch porn again?" ideally is a "no." The thought of giving it up for life seems impossible or nearly impossible given how pleasurable it is, which is why I try to frame it as more of a journey than me striving towards some nearly impossible goal.
Yes, I know how this works. We got ourselves into something very pleasurable and the brain loves pleasure. When you tell yourself: "Okay, this is it, I will quit P forever", you feel that "sadness" like losing a close friend that you used to have an amazing time with but a toxic relationship at the same time, like being used by him or something. At the end of the day, I have to decide what's best for me and the best for me is to reach that day when I'm over with this. Right now it seems crazy, as I couldn't even go a week without PMO recently but it's a journey, a plan, I will get there eventually.
Quote
We are all struggling, but part of "beating" the struggle is trying to find enjoyment in the pain of discipline and restraint. It may sound a little fucked up in a "pain is pleasure" kind of way, but to me, that option has allowed me to discover more in life and create more opportunities for growth than PMO has or ever will.
Ironically, this helps us grow. I guess "no pain no gain" could be true.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 28, 2019, 06:12:33 PM

As far as figuring out what is healthy vs unhealthy sexual behavior, I always try and think of the motives behind it all. Am I doing this ONLY for myself, or will my behavior benefit someone else?

That's a great thought, and is something I think I was trying to get at. If the goal, at least in part for me, is a long-term relationship, anything that's only for me is getting in the way of that goal. PMO isn't about relationships, it's just about getting me a quick fix.

The thought of giving it up for life seems impossible or nearly impossible given how pleasurable it is, which is why I try to frame it as more of a journey than me striving towards some nearly impossible goal. Day by day, moment to moment, we can always be present and let urges wash over us, as there is no urge that is so powerful that it will physically make you watch P and MO. We are all struggling, but part of "beating" the struggle is trying to find enjoyment in the pain of discipline and restraint.

I think this is also spot-on. Plus, I just really can't promise myself that I'll stay on track for the rest of my life (I've tried and failed at that promise too many times to count). But I can promise myself that I'll stay on track today. Or for the next hour. Changing my focus and going day by day instead of forever has helped me realize that even intense urges pass after a few days and life goes on. When I thought I was done for life, I thought I was going to have to deal with those urges forever so I always gave in. By just hanging on for one more day, I finally learned that those urges aren't forever, and I managed to get through them for the first time.

Hope you're doing all right man, hang in there! We're with you in this!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 31, 2019, 03:43:46 PM
Thanks so much guys for all the support! Been trying to think a little bit less and analyze less the last few days and I had family visiting! I had a really great time with the family!

All really good thoughts and really glad to hear what you guys all said.

Been all good since my last post. Masturbated about once a day for a day or two, then have done nothing the last three days.

As of now: PMO, Escrots, PMO Fetish fantasy or acting on it: Aim= Eliminate forever.

MO: With fantasy of real women or just to touch alone: Not cutting it out for now, but will incorporate breaks. Basically I will see how it works based on a "does my dick and mind work" basis.

May post a little less (but will keep you all updated!) since I am aiming to do more of "living as if PMO didn't exist" mindset.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 31, 2019, 05:08:44 PM
Glad to see you're back and doing much better!

I like the idea of living more as if PMO didn't exist. From my own experience, though (and what are we doing if we aren't nagging each other?), I've run into trouble when I've also lived as if my vulnerability to PMO didn't exist. Does that make sense? I know in the past I've been too careless with triggers and other things because I was acting like PMO wasn't a thing. I think it's definitely good to go out and focus on other things (I'm not saying don't), just take care of yourself (I'm also not saying you won't). Oh well, maybe I shouldn't have even written this paragraph, but I'm in too deep now.

Best of luck with it all, and we'll be waiting for another update!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Lero on June 01, 2019, 06:53:41 AM
I like the idea of living more as if PMO didn't exist. From my own experience, though (and what are we doing if we aren't nagging each other?), I've run into trouble when I've also lived as if my vulnerability to PMO didn't exist. Does that make sense? I know in the past I've been too careless with triggers and other things because I was acting like PMO wasn't a thing.

I think I understand what you mean. This part is tricky but maybe it depends on the individual too. In my case, it helps when I don't think about P. Thinking about quitting P is thinking about P. Thinking about how hard is to quit P is thinking about P. However, if this makes you develop that mentality like "I don't have a problem with P, one PMO won't hurt me", this is not good. Anyway, I guess "Listen to your instincts" could help. People can only suggest things, give advice, tell you what work for them but what works for you, only you can figure out.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on June 01, 2019, 06:45:25 PM

I think I understand what you mean. This part is tricky but maybe it depends on the individual too. In my case, it helps when I don't think about P. Thinking about quitting P is thinking about P. Thinking about how hard is to quit P is thinking about P. However, if this makes you develop that mentality like "I don't have a problem with P, one PMO won't hurt me", this is not good. Anyway, I guess "Listen to your instincts" could help. People can only suggest things, give advice, tell you what work for them but what works for you, only you can figure out.


Yeah, definitely. We're all in this together, but we're also walking really individual roads. Like, for me, posting here often definitely makes me think about P more often than I probably would otherwise, but it's been helpful for me because it makes me more accountable for my thoughts throughout the day. And I think that's one of the biggest breakthroughs I've had recently: accepting that I have a problem that will need daily attention has helped me to take better care of myself from day to day. My mindset has sort of switched from "If only PMO would get out of my life!" to "Since PMO is a part of my life, how do I live with that fact and take care of myself so I don't slip?" It has made urges less of a crisis and more of a call to action.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Lero on June 02, 2019, 04:56:49 AM
Yeah, definitely. We're all in this together, but we're also walking really individual roads. Like, for me, posting here often definitely makes me think about P more often than I probably would otherwise, but it's been helpful for me because it makes me more accountable for my thoughts throughout the day. And I think that's one of the biggest breakthroughs I've had recently: accepting that I have a problem that will need daily attention has helped me to take better care of myself from day to day. My mindset has sort of switched from "If only PMO would get out of my life!" to "Since PMO is a part of my life, how do I live with that fact and take care of myself so I don't slip?" It has made urges less of a crisis and more of a call to action.

That's right. Well said.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on June 02, 2019, 05:19:31 PM
Happy to see you are back and doing well, quit! Yeah for me it does help when I don't think about P, even if that includes thinking about how I will continue to not watch P. The moments we are invested in other things that we enjoy and are good for us are the moments when P has no power over us, and while that might not be as often as we would like they are always attainable. Sometimes when I get really strong urges, I'll try to remember a time when I was totally invested in one moment or experience, where P was nowhere in the mind.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on June 08, 2019, 04:22:44 PM
Hey guys thanks for all of the support!

So, things are a little interesting:

I had been MOing most days but with fantasies with real girls and if I am honest... I feel much much better. My erections got better, mentally I felt a lot better, less effort to control urges.

I had attempted to cut the mo back out then had a mild slip yesterday... (looked at some stuff and some fetish fantasy while moed....)

Honestly I think the mo is helping.... Basically what I did was, when I got an urge instead of fetish fantasy porn or whatever. I was moing but forcing myself to think of healthier sex situations. I had the mild slip when I tried to stop the mo. That is a psychological effect, when I try and cut something out and don't do it, I end up going more extreme.

The slip is a bummer but the cool thing was... After a few weeks of this, I actually got a lot more pleasure moing to "healthier" sex thoughts then to PMO/fetish stuff. It's like I rewired a bit to healthier desires.

My concern is.... will my dick work with a real girl?

Going forward the plan is/was:

MO- But incorporate periods of not doing it as it could be perhaps good for my brain/ penis health as well. That is what I had tried to do then I had a slip....

What I notice AGAIN AND AGAIN. Is not keeping commitments no matter what it is leads to slips.

I had committed to cutting out all sex thoughts (at the end of my last long streak) then when I thought about any sex I ended up full on relapsing. It is more psycological then it is

So, I think things are better, the slip was very mild and I actually don't feel so terrible. I also changed up my diet. I had been on a lowish carb diet, I added more carbs and surprising I am leaner and have more energy and muscle. I think I made a lot of things too extreme and hard for myself.

Still keep getting damn colds lol. (I think it's been the same thing this whole time coming and going.... need health insurance). Rested a lot today but other then that work's been going well. I started budgeting better and am working to get a second gig going to make more money and move forward in life.

Edit: Not sure how clear I was and it may sound like I am minimizing it but.... I am almost excited about this slip because my PMO fetishes did not give me much pleasure. I feel that my brain is changing. I think forcing myself to orgasm to thoughts of real intimacy is making those pathways stronger. It seems bizarre I guess. But it was cool, it was almost like I had to force myself to do the slip, like it was a chore that I should get done because I already started. Never felt that way before and right after I was like man I'd rather think about real girls. So it'd odd to call a slip progress but it definetly felt like it...
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on June 08, 2019, 06:44:40 PM
Glad you're still finding your way and stopping by with updates!

I definitely think it is possible to go too extreme. I started trying to lose some weight last year, and I slipped into being too extreme in cutting back on food. My body reacted by putting on more weight, and I only started losing weight again when I ate more. So yeah, we might think we're doing ourselves a favor by going in as intense as we can be, but it can backfire.

Both weight control and addiction recovery are changes to lifestyle, and it's important to find what works long term. As I've been working at recovery this year, I've been thinking a lot about what changes I can make that I can maintain possibly for the rest of my life. That process has helped me to start seeing these changes as a part of my life moving forward and not just as some quick tricks to fix this addiction and move on.

So keep thinking about what will work for you in the long run. And be careful with minimizing things (I don't know that you are, but you did bring it up). For me, anything that triggers that addictive dopamine loop will lead me back to PMO eventually. It's easy for me to tolerate something that isn't explicitly PMO, but I've learned to be more careful about the things that still work in my brain the same way. Like staring down girls around town in a gross way: not PMO, but also a habit that keeps me tied to PMO in a way. I don't know, that's just me.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: kadeshzelbriel on June 09, 2019, 12:12:16 AM
I love what you're playing with here around gentleness/extremeness in discipline. I totally agree that in my experience, the more harsh the discipline energy, the more extreme the reaction. there's a relevant buddhist principle that the more we try and control the mind, the more it does the opposite of what we want. i think that's related to the attempt to "cut out all sexual thoughts." we can't really ever do this, we can just set an intention around what we do if/when a sexual thought appears, or if the desire to think sexual thoughts comes up, or if we find ourselves indulging in sexual thinking. the same principle would apply - if we're harsh with our self when a sexual thought comes up, it'll come back stronger. if we just gently remember our intentions and why it matters to us, we can retrain our mind over time.

part of what i hear in your approach is finding a way to move the sexual energy that is in the direction you want. if you try and bottle it all up, it'll come out of the more extreme holes. this way, there's an outlet for it.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on June 11, 2019, 04:18:51 PM
I think it's important to experiment around with different approaches and strategies if you think it's what will help you reach your relationship goals, but just be suuuper careful when MOing/fantasizing. I know that cutting out sexual thoughts is bad and will only lead to more desire in the long run, but I do think there is some way to let these thoughts come and go like a spec in the wind, a slight annoyance but something we are comfortable suppressing due to our long term goals. From my experience, MOing without P was great at first because I felt like I was being giving a fair reward to myself while not hurting my brain with P, but eventually MO on its own got boring, and I started to miss P more and more which led to a string of really bad relapses. Again, this is my experience and this was at a time when I had minimal sexual experiences with real women so my brain wasn't wired towards that at all, so I do think this could work if you are already naturally more inclined to pursue real relationships.

Acting on these thoughts (MO) can be good if you think that it rewires your brain towards more real-life situations, but for me it is either a way to indulge my brain through the anticipation of the O, or eventually leads me to an empty feeling; I eventually got no joy out of just MO as there is no passion or external stimulation except for my own hand, and since I could not find intimacy I would fall back on old habits and sink to P again.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Lero on June 12, 2019, 03:47:49 AM
I think it's important to experiment around with different approaches and strategies if you think it's what will help you reach your relationship goals, but just be suuuper careful when MOing/fantasizing. I know that cutting out sexual thoughts is bad and will only lead to more desire in the long run, but I do think there is some way to let these thoughts come and go like a spec in the wind, a slight annoyance but something we are comfortable suppressing due to our long term goals. From my experience, MOing without P was great at first because I felt like I was being giving a fair reward to myself while not hurting my brain with P, but eventually MO on its own got boring, and I started to miss P more and more which led to a string of really bad relapses. Again, this is my experience and this was at a time when I had minimal sexual experiences with real women so my brain wasn't wired towards that at all, so I do think this could work if you are already naturally more inclined to pursue real relationships.

Acting on these thoughts (MO) can be good if you think that it rewires your brain towards more real-life situations, but for me it is either a way to indulge my brain through the anticipation of the O, or eventually leads me to an empty feeling; I eventually got no joy out of just MO as there is no passion or external stimulation except for my own hand, and since I could not find intimacy I would fall back on old habits and sink to P again.

This is how it works for me too. I've never been crazy about just MO, P was what I always craved. If P hadn't existed, I don't think I would've MO-ed that much.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on June 14, 2019, 09:33:42 AM
Thanks a lot for all the support and thoughts guys! Great points on all fronts.

Things have been a bit of a mixed bag. 

I have had some things go well and some things less well. The last few days I made some mistakes. I masturbated with some pmo fantasy two times for two days in a row. That isn't good.

Oddly the cycle has been the same every single time in this new experiment.

1) I was masturbating, most days- And things were essentially good. Occasionally did a little too much.
2) Then  I decided I had to go two weeks without masturbating. Because that is the amount of time I first went "hard mode" and then was able to enjoy sex for the first time.
3) I go one day without masturbating, then the next day I fantasized about PMO or I Mo'd with P fetishes.

This last one was the strongest one, I mo'd two times two days in a row. Then I felt off and wanted to do it again this morning, I still MO'd but forced myself to fantasize about an ex girlfriend.

I can definitely see the negative effect of going back in that PMO fantasy direction stronger erections during the PMO fantasy and weaker erections during my "healthy" fantasies.


So, an odd thing I notice. When I have had the PMO fantasy slips, fantasizing or MO'ing while thinking of porn induced fetishes. I didn't feel good about it, but then when I would use willpower to fantasize about "healthier/ vanilla" sex I would feel better after and my emotions seemed to go back to a lot more grounded.

Now, again I don't want to minimize but I also don't want to get too extreme either.

Part of me had wanted to post here and be all upset and say that I have lost my will and didn't know what to do yadda yadda. But if I think more calmly, I see the same pattern again and again. I try and cut out MO then I slip, when I have not done that I have been mostly fine. Again, I think it is the odd psychological thing.

But here is the funny thing, I had family visit a few weeks ago and I naturally did not MO and it was no big deal. I think it's that psychological thing of making the commitment, feeling pressure and then all the weird "early in streak" stuff. Like oh well, it's only a one day streak so I may as well break it. BUT, by saying I couldn't MO, nor fantasy, nor PMO. I included all of those actions into that one "streak" so when I decide to break it's like "oh, I might as well fantasize about porn". Does that make sense?

So I suppose for now, I may as well try something different. I tried this "14 day no MO" thing a bunch of times. BUT, it clearly was not working. So, I guess I'll just stop that.

Now, I'll see where things go and am open to changing things up, but I've just had issue lately with the trying to cut out everything again.

This does not mean it won't still take discipline! Gotta very strictly control my thoughts with the MO. But I had found it was getting much easier before I tried to cut it out as well.


Here is an analogy: I had been eating a really strict diet for literally over a decade about 99% of the time, started just as I became a teenager. I wouldn't eat bread or any grains. Also no sugar and junk food. (called the paleo diet). It was a ton of work. I was convinced I had to eat that way or I would be fat because I "couldn't control myself and had to go all or nothing so if I could never eat certain foods it would prevent me from being fat". Plus I thought I felt better etc. I read books that said the paleo diet was correct, we should eat like cavemen etc. Turns out we don't really know what cavemen eat and most world class athletes historical geniuses, EVERY single person we have ever heard of ate lots of grain. Because that is the foundation of civilization.

I started to realize this, that the science was bogus. But had kept eating this way for years.

For weeks I had been craving rice and bread and was eating tons of other food to get over the cravings. Finally I consciously without punishing myself or being mad about it, decided "maybe grains are okay?" I still don't eat junk food, as that is clearly bad.

I started eating pasta, rice, bread. The funny thing, suddenly I eat less. I have some chicken with some rice, just one plate and I feel satisfied. I actually lost weight..... Been so convinced diets must be low carb or we'll be fat etc. I am eating less protein, more carbs and I lost fat, gained some muscle and had more energy. 

I also used to when I ate bread, sometimes end up binge eating or having junk food etc. but I realize that was all psychological.

Now it's not the exact same, but I have had this tendency, to create these obstacle for myself and these like "omg I have to be 110%" type of stuff.

Now, Porn is not natural it MUST be removed. That is 110%. The PMO fetishes have been damaging, I find shame in them and make my sexuality a bit "off" (not just the fetish, but it off is an odd compulsive thing, it's not ummm "real/ healthy" sexuality. So I want that stuff gone, with more aggression now.

MO with healthy fantasies- Literally it's just a matter of if it takes away from my life or makes my dick not work. Then it's a problem, but if not it's okay.

Me doing the 14 day thing, has been because I wanted to ensure my dick would work if I met a girl.

Now what I am thinking is, that has clearly not worked. Whether it not working is the problem OR I just need to kick myself in the butt. I am not 100% sure. For now what I am thinking is this: Attempt to listen to my body about masturbating or not, do cut out PMO and the fetish stuff and keep on eye on if the MO fantasy gets too wild.

Then, also be open to/ pursue (without going crazy about it) sex/ relationships with women. If my dick works/ can start to work. Great! If it doesn't/ I can't make it work then I may need to cut out MO again AND the "positive" of that is knowing myself that experience would get me back on track in a hurry.

Besides: If I am honest my last several sexual experiences even with streaks and going hard my dick didn't work too good either:

With virgin: Garbage erections GARBAGE. Actually some of the worst. I think that really contributed to not seeing her again. I was not erect for 80% of the time she was in my bed. I had not PMO'd for over a month but HAD PMO fantasized the day before (the fantasy about the fetishes is a proven erection killer so that has to go). She basically had to spend like a minutes to give me an erection anda  pleasurless blowjob. (Oddly the next day my dick had "come back to life" and I had a full erection for the first time in months (while talking to a girl).
About twoish years prior: Lost it mid sex, few week streak I think. Lasted a few min.

So basically, gonna just let whatever happens happen with a girl. Also going to start doing "pc" exercises. Working out the muscles, this used to give me really much stronger better erections. I did it while a virgin but noticed like substantially improved erections. I have not done it often for YEARS as I was afraid they'd stimulate me and trigger me to masturbate.

They are basically exercises to strengthen a muscle involved with erections. If you do not know what it is ASK ME IN THIS THREAD. I will post a guide either one I write or I'll copy and paste a good excerpt.

Just thinking the exercises themselves are not "sexual"/ pmo but I could imagine a google search could possibly bring up stories/ anecdotes etc. that could be triggering. So if anyone is curious just ask and I'll post in this thread so you don't have to google it.
Also, there is a risk as the exercises do create some slight stimulation so for those who have cut out MO be careful with them.


Goodness this is gonna be a long post. Sorry : )

Two last anecdotes: So I MO'd to PMO fantasy two nights in a row. I felt bad this am. I wanted to do it again, but instead made myself mo to a fantasy about a girl I used to date. Then I wanted to MO again. I was thinking of another girl trying to mo again. Then was losing my erection in the middle. I kept trying for a minute or so. Then I thought "I should PMO fantasy so I can finish!" I even thought "maybe I should look at some escort websites, just so I can get my erection back!".

I had the idea that I had to "finish" even thinking if I didn't "then I'll have urges and I won't be able to create a new no MO streak". Finally I just realized "Wait I CAN just stop" lol. I just stopped M'ing and it was fine, no urge no nothing.

So I do see the risk, like Picha mentioned. But it's odd how so easy it was to just stop when I didn't really want to and my body wanted to stop. Never did that in the past.

So, perhaps that is an educational lesson and what I can experiment with for the time being. Not these 14 day do or die streaks. Not needing to MO everyday or whatever, just trying to listen to my body.

I was thinking about, I saw a therapist briefly who was good. He said I was always turning pleasure into work or into pain. Making things so extreme that I couldn't enjoy them, I was 1000% percent I had to cut things out completely and talked about like all this brain science and compulsion etc. English was not his first language and he goes

"yes, yes the lizard brain.... but you are a person not a lizard" lol.
(Referring to the older parts of the brain I guess lol)

I did mess up with the slips of those few days but....

I have been eating bread etc. healthy grains. Last night I was super hungry and in a rush, i ended up getting chicken nuggets. It was gross: clearly processed and unhealthy I actually got the impulse like "omg I need to cut bread out again". No, just throw at the chicken nuggets lol.

So, that's a new mindset for me.

Anyways long ass post. I mean I spent a solid 4 years working on "hard mode" and did a pretty good job. I never completly "fell off the wagon or gave up on it". This is BY FAR the most I mo'd in many many years. I was non stop trying to have streaks. I actually (and this I am prod of) have not full on PMO'ed since 2015! I have looked at escort websites, maybe seen an hour or two worth of actual porn in total in that whole time and even looked at escort websites and masturbated soon after, but never looked at the screen and MO'd together. It may even be since 2014, thats a long time so damn long that I know it was in November and I am not 100% if it was 2015 or 2014 (probably 2014 in hindsight). So I am proud of that progress and intend to for sure go even further on the no P or Fetish junk. But I guess I can afford to spend a couple months playing with MOing etc.

Anyways CLIFF NOTES: Going to not try to cut out MO at all for a little bit. Will try and listen to instincts and hopefully have periods of not doing it just out of enjoying the break/ my body wanting to rest. (now for example did too much last few days, my body physicallly wants a break, but will not "force myself to do it" just try and be in tune.

Will do PC exercises daily. To make dick work/ hopefully be able to have pleasurable sex.

Going to start posting a bit more again.

Will be open to change: If this does not work, it doesn't work and back on the no PMO grind. That's an option for sure, but I am going to try and not think in extremes.

Also: Go for it with girls. If the dick doesn' work, it doesn't work. It's valuable data. I have had VERY LITTLE sex for years, partially out of always being on my streaks and projects and then nervous about will it work. Just gotta go for it, if my dick works or not it's data and motivation. Gotta fail first to succeed. (Thats how I got it working when it did work, it didn't work with a girl then it'd work with the next after some rewiring)- But not too much pressure to get girls. Life comes first, just not gonna like turn down opportunites and may decide to start pursuing girls a little again.

Also, I have a hypnosis recording for "masturbation addiction" that is supposed to teach moderation. I may give it a go, I never used it before out of horror that it was not focused on 100% abstinance. I also may skip it, will see. (Sounds good in theory but the same people have one for getting over a fetish it is was HORRIBLE) they actually make great relaxing recordings but I think this is an issue they didn't actually deal with so it was like 2nd hand info.

I do see the irony in my no PMO journal turning into like a goddamn masturbation journal lol.



 
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on June 14, 2019, 03:25:12 PM
I value your willingness to try different things @quit, but I think it could sometimes be beneficial to not jump to conclusions too soon. I understand how "hard mode" can lead to multiple binges and unsatisfying sex, I have definitely been there way too many times. For me, I feel like I have gotten over certain humps when it comes to hard mode- noticing tendencies and anticipating when/how they will come, improving at letting urges come and go, channeling that energy into other things.

However, I think there is a higher level to this (for lack of a better term) where we genuinely don't WANT to PMO %99 of the time, or even WANT to fantasize, and the other 1% is an urge nothing more than a slight annoyance, an easy thing to overcome unless you have external factors in your life leading to stress. Of course to reach this, one must have to feel fulfilled in their relationships, career, and everything else. They know that there emotional and physical needs are met without any PMO, and are content with their "lot" in life. Look at the maker of this forum, Gabe Deem- I think he said it took 9 months for him to even get an erection with a woman, don't quote me on that though.

I am certainly nowhere near this, and it could take multiple years, maybe even decades. I know, it sounds ridiculous. But I believe this because of the many success stories I have heard from others on here, people going on hard mode for multiple years (obviously having sex with real people- would be impossible if not for that), finding love, and never PMOing again (or almost never). This might sound idealistic (and corny), but I feel compelled to believe that someday I'll find someone that will be the only person that I want to have sexual feelings towards. This is what I allow myself to fantasize about (among other things not related to PMO/sex), this is my compromise to myself to make hard mode just a bit easier. I do think fantasizing is healthy to a certain extent, but if it goes past what you want in real life than we are left chasing something that will never truly fulfill us. Think about, in a perfect world- if you were able to go for (lets say) a year without ANY PMO, would you be better for it? I know it seems impossible, but is it actually impossible? I can't answer that question personally as I have never even got to half a year.

As for the health analogy, I propose a different one- weight cycling. As you said before, many people have a tendency to lose weight, only to gain it all back due to factors such as stress from pushing too hard, or other responsibilities that lead to people compromising on their diets and skipping workouts. However, every time someone does this, the journey to lose weight gets a little bit harder because of the lost muscle and increased fat. In order to limit these cycles and have sustainable success, it's important to not push too hard, but I think it's even more important to consistently commit to it for a looooong time, much longer than our body or brain would tell us. I say this bc I am guilty of this, and I regret not sticking with it because I know in the long term dieting will improve my life as long as I am getting proper nutrition. Now I have the motivation to workout all the time, but the results are not nearly the same as they used to be. It'll for sure take longer than if I just kept going the first time, but I believe it is still possible if I keep at it both nutrition and health-wise. Now, I am not feeling the same benefits I once did compared to my first 90-day streak (I think I'm around there) but I have faith that this cycle is not permanently ingrained in me, and is something I can break through channeling the energy away from PMO.

Also, sex has been the best for me after long streaks of no P and no MO. Usually not the first few times, but once my brain starts to rewire it's like "oh wow this is what I'm really missing out on" lol

Sorry if I seem combative, I appreciate and respect your thoughts and think a healthy discussion on this topic is good for everyone. No matter what, you have my support %100 bc you know what is better for yourself obviously!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on June 14, 2019, 06:39:51 PM
That was a long a post, lol, but it's always good to see what you have to say.

I think you're right on when it comes to listening to and working with your body. Fighting an addiction is already hard. We don't have to make it harder by being too extreme.

I've probably already made it clear that I'm in the no-MO camp. Like pichaelthompson, I'm not trying to pick a fight. You know what's working for you and what your journey to this point has been like. I guess I have a couple of thoughts to add though.

First, I guess I worry a little bit if MO is a compulsive behavior. If you're turning to it when you're stressed out or bored but not when you're distracted and around loved ones, it makes me wonder if it's a healthy part of your life or just an unhealthy coping mechanism. For me, it's not just about quitting PMO but also about dealing with stress and anxiety without having to rely on the endorphins from O to get through life. I don't know, and I don't want to tell you what to do, but it might be worth asking whether you are in charge of the MO or it's in charge of you. If it's in charge, it doesn't seem like much of a friend after all.

I'm also not sure binges are a sign that something isn't working. Before I started recovery, I never "binged." I just PMOed multiple times a day most days. I wasn't worried about relapses, I wasn't counting streaks, and I was never up all night PMOing. But I was also deep in addiction. I have only experienced binges since trying to fight this thing. So I don't know, is MOing regularly better than trying not to but slipping up and MOing more intensely at greater intervals? That's not a question I can answer for you (but I know the answer for me).

And I think extreme-ness is more about mindset than behavior. Right now, I'm probably more "extreme" than I ever have been before: I have content filters on my devices, I'm posting here almost daily, no porn, no masturbation, no edging, no fantasies, no staring at girls around town just to stare. I have never hit this thing so hard. But, I have also never been so understanding and gentle with myself either. When a thought comes to mind or a girl walks past, instead of yelling at myself and repressing the little pleasure that makes me want more, I just say, yeah, that's an interesting thing, but it isn't going to take me where I want to go. It's not worth the trouble. For me, romantic fantasies always lead to sexual fantasies and then to porn fantasies and then to PMO. It's not that romantic fantasies are bad by themselves. It's just that I have learned that I can't play around with them without getting into trouble. Long story short: for me, 100% abstinence isn't extreme, it's normal for a lot of people. Where I find myself worrying about being too extreme is in my mindset and attitude towards myself: if I'm beating myself up, I'll end up feeling so bad that I turn to PMO to cope. If I'm more compassionate with myself, I can get much closer to 100% abstinence without feeling too uncomfortable with it.

So, there's my two cents. But, before I go, I had no idea that you've been away from full on PMO for so long. That by itself is pretty awesome, even if there has still been junk going on since then. Congrats for that, and just keep making progress. Find what works, hold yourself accountable, and press forward. That's all any of us can do!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on June 15, 2019, 10:53:00 AM
Thanks man! Definitely appreciate your two cents. For me I am happy to take in both of your inputs and happy to make adjustments moving forward. That is very good food for thought especially about if it's being used to allay feelings.


Update: So last nights I thought to MO but then didn't really feel like it and did not. This morning I had some pretty good morning wood.

Yesterday evening I went to an awesome yoga class, I felt super relaxed afterward. I was walking and made eye contact with a girl, we started talking and then went to sit down at a cafe. She wanted to sit outside even though it was rainy and shitty out there. I agreed then a homless/crazy guy sat near us and started saying gibberish trying to talk to me. I tried to get the girl to move and then she was nice but said she had to go.

I had felt bad about that, thinking like maybe I should be able to idk like tell off the homless guy and get us to leave us alone and wasn't manly enough or something lol. I was pretty upset about that. But now that I am calmer about it. I think it wasn't that big a deal the guy talking to us, he was just a crazy guy trying to be friendly and it happened because we were in a bad date location.... sitting outside in bad weather where reasonable people would not sit.

I should not have agreed to us sitting outside and I did so because I was afraid to lose the girl, if I were comfortable and confident I would playfully be like, it's wet outside you are crazy!

So thats a nice insight, the problem was earlier on, not leading and being nervous "playing to not lose" rather then to win. Saying no to sitting outside may have lost the girl but it also gave me the chance of us talking in a nice environment. Sitting outside was just not a nice environment and was a weak move so I would have lost the girl either way. So thats the lesson there, take the risk.

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on June 15, 2019, 02:49:08 PM
I don't blame you at all, I'm %100 I would've done the same thing if she told me she wanted to move outside. Too bad for the homeless guy, I would chalk that up to bad luck more than anything else. Super impressed (and a little bit jealous) of your ability to make eye contact and approach women, keep it up!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on June 15, 2019, 07:15:32 PM
Oh no, sorry about the crazy guy. But congrats on getting to the point where a crazy guy could ruin a date (still a win!)

I know the feeling, and I think pichael and I were talking about something similar in his journal (if I'm remembering right): one side-effect of my recovery efforts is that I have more self-esteem, I guess. Instead of feeling like I'd be lucky to get any girl, I'm starting to realize that I don't have to settle for just anyone. I am definitely the kind of person who would just go with the flow in order to risk losing her, but I'm learning that I don't have to do that anymore. I'm getting a little better at sticking up for myself because I'm starting to recognize my own good qualities (seeing past my PMO problem).

So better luck next time, man! Keep making progress and recognizing your own good qualities. And make the girls feel like they should sit inside so they don't risk losing you lol!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on June 19, 2019, 12:46:33 PM
Thanks guys! Good perspective just to think of this stuff in terms of bad luck, I tend to make it personal and think it'll always happen.

"OMG, if a crazy guy interrupted my talking to a girl then it will always happen and I'll never be able to date".

A bit of a down patch, but luckily it is less of a down then previously.

It rained for about a week straight also, I have been on and off sick for months now, it seems. Had some congestion, thats gone but whole body is achy. I think I have some sort of infection that my body has been trying to keep at bay for literally two months or so.

Sigh.... Hopefully I'll have some health insurance soon. I have some in the state I moved from, which covers an emergency room visit, it'd be a high copay but maybe I ought to go just to try and get some antibiotics or to just suck it up if they say I am fine.

On the plus side, I am aiming to accept my situation, I'm not going to die or anything and I'll have health insurance again in the future so I'll be able to get better eventually.

Being okay with doing a little less for a few days. I stayed home and read for the entire evening after work yesterday.

Did over do the mo yestarday for sure though. Going to take a break from it. I must admit last night it was mostly out of boredom and not some healthy sexuality.

Today is sunny again and I have off a bit of a bummer that I feel sick. (my voice also still hurts). But thinking I'll go to the beach and rad a bunch of then aim to go to a yoga class this evening, it's a gentle class and even when sick I have felt better after just about every yoga class I got to.

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on June 19, 2019, 04:52:14 PM
Sorry you aren't feeling well! Be sure to take care of yourself.

I know I always feel like I have to go at 110% top speed even when I'm sick. Part of what I've been working on is being okay with taking things a little slower and recognizing that rest is also an important part of being productive.

It sounds like you have some good plans, though. Keep working at it and reflecting on your experiences. Staying engaged in the process is a big help.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on July 05, 2019, 05:33:42 PM
Man, sorry to be one of those disappearing ones. Didn't realize it had been so damn long. Wasn't doing well, then wanted to build a streak and be gun blazing killing it. Well.... you guys are right Masturbation is out.....

I guess, I'll get caught up more later, and see what you all are up to.

Day 0.

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on July 05, 2019, 06:05:14 PM
Sorry to hear you weren't doing well Quit, but it's good to hear from you! Since my last relapse (a couple weeks ago I think?) I haven't tried to do anything really that different since I felt like alot of what I was doing was working, but I did make some minor changes such as valuing consistency every day over maximizing productivity. It has helped me feel more even-keeled, not getting too extremely high or low. Best of luck to you on your new streak!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 05, 2019, 06:25:17 PM
Hey, man, sorry to hear it,  but glad you're back.

Day 0 can be a bummer, but it's also a new opportunity to get a fresh start. You've never had a day 0 with so much experience and knowledge before. It could be easy to think about starting again with an "if only" mindset (I do it often enough), but the fact is that everyone is on their own path to recovery. In getting back to this day 0, you have learned some things that will help you to be stronger moving forward.

Keep at it!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on July 06, 2019, 09:46:51 PM
Thanks so much guys! The support means a lot.
Glad to be back. Felt some guilt about being gone so long but, nothing I can do but be back and move forward.

That night was rough and the lapse continued. Toughish day today.
 
A few positives:
Contacted a therapist, I think that could be a help.
Went on the beach for a walk- Actually was not too positive BUT the positive that came is to ummmm not do that again lol. So I thought a long walk on the beach would be a good idea, but I really spent the walk just stewing in my mind and making myself feel bad about myself felt much better afterward.


Step 1) Get through tonight.

At some point will set aside the time to read what I have missed in your journals....

Edit (some hours later): Some noise in the apartment next door irritated me and I got the thought of an urge. Just posting here instead.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on July 07, 2019, 12:52:47 PM
Day 2

Well, that is nice. On day 2. Was feeling a bit upset but aimed to remind myself, there are areas I am progressing in:

My back and shoulder had been hurting
I have been doing rehab exercises everyday and now, after a few weeks my back no longer hurts and my shoulder feels much better! That is some nice progress.... That is one area of my life that is progressing
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on July 07, 2019, 05:40:39 PM
Hey man, I'm super proud of you for continuing to keep going and fighting. I hope later on you can feel there is no reason to feel ashamed or angry at yourself, we all have the strength to move forward. Reading through your journal these past few months have shown me you definitely are able to go through some shit and keep getting better and progressing...I think you'll be able to get right back on track and reach your goals if you just keep your head up and truly believe that you can do this!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 07, 2019, 06:17:33 PM
Yeah, definitely proud of you for keeping up the fight and for coming back to fight it with us!

Edit (some hours later): Some noise in the apartment next door irritated me and I got the thought of an urge. Just posting here instead.

Isn't it crazy how random things can sometimes trigger us? Like what does noise have to do with porn? But I know the feeling, and it's just more evidence that PMO is a coping mechanism. Our brain goes to it when things disappoint or upset us. It isn't really about sex as much as it is about escaping pain. Even the pain of noisy neighbors. That's why, for me, I'm really trying to understand my emotions and to get better at dealing with them in healthier ways.

It's a new day and a new week! Keep on keeping on!

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on July 07, 2019, 10:59:48 PM
Thanks man! Such a true insight... definite coping mechanism... Finding better ways to handle emotions really critical for sure....

Again had a few urgy thoughts/ rationalization

1) Will I REALLY never masturbate again? Thought (urgy thought)
2) A brief out there tiny thought about ummm trigger thing, (won't go into detail)

Anyways, just recording it.

Other than that, decent day today. Made some adjustment and ended the day with a fun activity. Feeling momentum is returning.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Lero on July 08, 2019, 03:26:22 AM
Isn't it crazy how random things can sometimes trigger us? Like what does noise have to do with porn? But I know the feeling, and it's just more evidence that PMO is a coping mechanism. Our brain goes to it when things disappoint or upset us. It isn't really about sex as much as it is about escaping pain. Even the pain of noisy neighbors. That's why, for me, I'm really trying to understand my emotions and to get better at dealing with them in healthier ways.

It's a new day and a new week! Keep on keeping on!

This is definitely true. In the past, we knew we could run to P anytime we experienced discomfort, like being 7 years old and running to your mom. We trained ourselves to deal with pain with P and we didn't learn how to deal with it in a normal way. That's why when you say: "Okay, no more P," you bump into discomfort and you don't know what to do. P urges start and that voice in your mind tells you to do what you know and forget about trying something else. When I was in high school, anytime I had a hard day in class (tests, annoying teachers, having to be evaluated), I started thinking about what P to watch when I got home. After I got home, I was supposed to look at homework but I PMO-ed furiously for like 4 times.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on July 08, 2019, 04:07:37 PM
100%. Had a little work drama and felt a faint urge for a P website.

Had a good workout which was nice. Going to a meetup, aiming to really fill my schedule out more.

Day 3 today.

Last night had some really strong urges, literally talked out loud to myself and talked myself through it, it worked quite well actually, so something to keep in mind. Talking out loud slowed my thoughts and made them more rational.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: squid on July 08, 2019, 04:26:11 PM
100%. Had a little work drama and felt a faint urge for a P website.

Had a good workout which was nice. Going to a meetup, aiming to really fill my schedule out more.

Day 3 today.

Last night had some really strong urges, literally talked out loud to myself and talked myself through it, it worked quite well actually, so something to keep in mind. Talking out loud slowed my thoughts and made them more rational.

I had a similar experience today with work drama creating urges and am also going to a meet up group to fill my schedule.  Hope it goes well!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on July 08, 2019, 10:43:24 PM
Thanks squid! I am very glad I went it was a sort of business group.... I actually think the guy running it is likely a scammer lol. (He had some VERY outlandish business claims) but I had a good time. Finding this is very useful go to these social events, not like I did before trying to approach girls in the club.....

Just go to things with people around, really helps me hit the reset button. So want to continue.

LOL Ridiculous urge popped up, it is something to laugh about (but take serious at the same time). What creativity our brains can come up with.

A guy rode past me on a bike, he made a noise like he was worried for a second, I imagined what if he fell into the street that train of thought after going through a few permutations somehow morphed into a a very outlandish sex fantasy. (I am not gay (nothing with with it if you are) and the dude on the bike no longer existed in the fantasy. Not going into detail as it could be trigger but goodness the thoughts can pop up out of nowhere.

Worked out a ton. Back to lifting new program. Just high volume pushing hard but higher volume, it really really releases energy and tension in a great way. I actually feel much calmer.

Anyway, I keep saying it but got to catch up your all journals soon. But at least I am back
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on July 09, 2019, 09:41:42 AM
Nice! I think I remember you giving me some advice a couple months ago about how our minds just naturally think of weird or f*cked up things, and that there's no reason to give any energy or action towards that. That has helped me alot because I feel like when I get the slightest bit bored, my mind always tries to think of crazy ideas that often lead to urges.

Working out is such a great way to calm the mind...at first I was doing it for vain reasons (looking good, getting girls) but now I genuinely like the feeling of pushing my body and getting a good sweat in. Your body knows that what you're doing is good for you (post-workout) and as a result your mind will feel better too. Keep it up!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on July 09, 2019, 10:45:59 AM
So true man! I know exactly what you mean, pushing the body feels amazing. Just went for a swim at the beach.... thinking that's another cool way I may want to get into pushing my body, swim along the shore. I live one block away from a beautiful beach!

A little shark swam up to me a few months ago, so I was a bit scared and not taking advantage of the beach lately. but.... I was told these little sharks don't attack people and no recorded shark attacks have ever happened here, so thinking to just get over it.... it is technically not a rational fear (as I write that, the thought "man I am gonna feel dumb when a shark eats me" popped into my head lol) but I have craved more outdoors and adventure in my life and swimming in the ocean is just the thing.... the only thing keeping me away has been the fear.
 
Day 4
Doing well except just before sleep my mind went to a fetish fantasy for a minute or so. Sometimes when that would happen I would ended up diving right into the fantasies within a few days. So part of me thinks maybe I ought to reset my counter. Sigh I guess I will. For this odd reason: I just think it will help me to really stamp out any of that crap and for some odd reason my gut is telling me resetting the counter will help me to stay away from the fantasy for tonight so...

Day 0. (But still making good progress)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 09, 2019, 05:50:54 PM
Hey man, some solid reflections, and glad you're still making progress.

Urges/fantasies/triggers are crazy. They'll get us when we're least expecting them (and when we're most expecting them). All we can do is be aware of them and deal with them in the moment sometimes. Laughing at them seems like a great strategy: worrying about them has always made me more anxious and more likely to be triggered to deal with the pain of worrying about relapsing.

I think some people might think your decision to reset the counter for a minute or two of fantasy is a little extreme, but I just want to say that I support it. Sure, the "goal" is no PMO, and the counter is supposed to reflect that. BUT, we can only be successful at that if we're really serious about cutting all the little triggers and "minor" form of our addiction out of our lives. I think your decision to reset shows your commitment to really holding yourself accountable for even the little things. (Sometimes, I have kept multiple counters going, one to keep track of PMO and another to keep track of things like fantasies, just because I think it's useful to still keep track of PMO. But you do what works for you.)

Just keep at it. I'm always impressed by your thoughtfulness and willingness to get to work at fighting this thing.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on July 09, 2019, 11:36:19 PM
Thanks man! I think the two counters idea is a good one.

Here to ummm have self awareness and stay aware from my urge. (May have short time)

Tried talking to girls again for the first time in awhile, met a very nice attractive girl (after many failures) we exchanged numbers then she ignroed me after.

Was triggered but made self go out to activity!

Back home VERY strong trigger again, had planned to go out. I was going to skip it but this resulted in a very strong urge. So I got the fuck out even though I was exchausted. Had good time went to bookstore.

Met girl on way back. Felt she was attractive then she actually came home with me.

Two things
1) Once she is here I start worrying she used to be a man or something else is wrong with her. Had this girl rejected me I would have thought she was so hot. Home with me, I look for a reason it can't be real. Some self sabotage. Will expand on later.
2) She is here now, in other room. I was getting all these urges and she seems "wild" and my mind is like cool! I can get her to engage in pmo fantasies. So that is why I am here! To acknowledge this and play it right.

a) NONE of the pmo bs, if we have sex or try to or get physical it is a rewiring opportunity.
b) if she leaves (formally a strong trigger, the lost sex opportunity)- I think that is what ended my big streak..... Just read a bit and sleep. If an urge is strong take a walk or something.

I also see this as a decent opportunity in that if we attempt sex, this girl is on vacation and ummmm not relationship material so if my penis does not work it will be MASSIVE motivation but no big lose.

ALSO: Been getting up and getting shit done in morning so continue that even if a latish night (won't let it get too late tho.)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on July 09, 2019, 11:57:14 PM
Well, uneventful but a good lesson learned. The girl wanted to borrow my underwear to change took it then said she had to go in 15 minutes. Looked close and looked like she may have had small sore on her lips THANK GOD I did not kiss her....

I was pyscho analyzing myself but maybe when I get the girl my thought was accurate. This girl was all "slutty" Porn/stripper looking but up close seems kind of dirty and gross. Man... focus on the wholesome "real" girls in future. Not the mirage of desirability of girls who are basically just wearing a ton of make up and are low on morals.

Anyway, I lost a $3 pair of underwear and she ate some of my food. But other than that she is gone and nothing bad came of it. But man good lesson having standards. That girl was so trashy basically came here cause she was hungry I think. The girls we see in porn/ strip clubs etc. not nearly as good was we think..... take a sweet "real" person girl anyday.

Up close even without PIED not sure my dick would have worked....

Anyway, whatever reason this motivated me. Like this girl came I took control of the fetish fantasys and was not desperate and actually hustled her out even sooner then she wanted to go once I realized she was not a benefit in my life. Feels good. Now off to spend some time reading and then zzzzz.

One last thing..... As I walked with her other dudes looked at me like I was a cool bad ass. My last dates were with the girl that disappeared, sweet eurpean girl, no one thought I was a badass for walking around with her but wow that was a girl I really enjoyed being around and found truly attractive
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 10, 2019, 07:16:18 PM
Frankly, it sounds like a really good thing that it all worked out the way it did. No sense wasting your time on something that doesn't have the potential to last.

If I didn't say it here, I said it somewhere, but I'll say it again, lol. One of the side effects of my recovery has been discovering higher standards for the women I'm willing to go out with. You know, in the past I felt like I would be lucky just to have any girl notice me, awkward and addicted and worthless as I felt I was. But now I'm learning to like who I see in the mirror and learning to recognize my good qualities, things that would make me interesting to a quality woman.

Glad you're recognizing that too. You've got a lot going for you, and there's no reason to sell yourself short on a girl who only wants your underwear and food (never thought I'd say that sentence in my life). Sounds like you've had an experience with the kind of girl you're actually looking for, so keep shooting for that.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on July 11, 2019, 02:10:56 PM
Agree and relate with BlueHeron %100, another thing I'll add is that it's awesome that you were able to turn a not-so-great experience into motivation. So often when something negative happens to it we (or maybe just me) look at it like everything in life going forward is worse because of it. But when I hear stories of successful people, it was those negative experiences that were necessary to shaping the person they became later on in life. You are doing great living boldly and going for it, and I think you realize that when it doesn't work out there are many positives that come from it. Keep it up!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on July 11, 2019, 06:44:57 PM
Great insights guys....

Unfortunately I slipped...
1 MO that night and two the next day....

Back to day 1....

Well right back on the horse. I think it was just an adjustment period to get back to working up the streak.

Goal: 30 days.


I had had dating apps on my phone. Checked it only twice that day but felt the huge dopamine rush and heart beating... never again.
I think that plus having the woman who I only viewed as a sex object/pmo fetish deliverer. Simply was too triggering that early in the streak...

Just gotta remember especially early on, be very careful. Avoid as much sexual stimulation as possible. The huge one is deleted the apps and moving forward: HAVE STANDARDS! Really gotta focus on relationship, will expand on this a bit later... (Dating vs working on life....)

Anyway the slips were so draining. Gotta remember addiction or not man, the clean pmo and mo free life is soooo much better. It adds so much energy. Was so tired and drained with the slips. Looking forward to building it back up and NEVER doing that shit again. The only positive of the slips is I think I am finally really totally re sold on quitting. After losing that really long streak I guess it was hard to recommit to it...
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 11, 2019, 07:02:27 PM
Sorry to hear it, but you don't need me to tell you to get back on your feet (you're already doing it!)

I think you're right on with avoiding dopamine rush/sexual stimulation as much as possible. It's hard to take the step of cutting it all out, but right now, at least for me, there isn't any okay outlet for that stuff, and it will only lead to PMO if I mess around with it.

I totally support a focus on building relationships over sex/stimulation. That's an important mindset to adopt! Get rid of those apps and live your best life!

It can definitely be hard to get momentum going again after a relapse. I always experience "aftershocks" before I can really get going again. Ride them out and then get back at it!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on July 12, 2019, 08:57:54 AM
I have been there before @Quit, when you get back on the horse it almost sometimes feels as if you have too much energy. Being able to channel that excess energy into relationships without being too overly hyper or anxious is still a huge challenge for me, but something I think will pay off in the long run if I just keep working at it. Meditation, working out, telling yourself to stay calm all help to some degree, but the harsh reality is that it takes time and patience more than anything else for my brain to make minuscule changes over the long run, since those habits are deeply ingrained. You got this man, we believe in you!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on July 12, 2019, 03:24:11 PM
Day 2

Thanks guys! I do think I am feeling some aftershocks, just quite tired right now. But I started the day right..... did my morning routines (had a good one I had missed for those two days) and went for a nice run. Great idea on exercising more. Running is pretty amazing, I think I ought to organize my workouts more, plan runs not just do haphazard. Running feels really good and can build up my fitness. No reason not to get in all round shape.

Got done an important task that'll help me possibly get a second work gig which is nice, it was tedious and mostly riding in a car but it had to be done so why not be happy with it?

Took two naps today and now feeling a little bit sad. I get this feeling like I am wasting my days off sometimes.....
Still have my lifting to do so will do that. I bet the naps'll pay off and I'll get a good workout in.

Avoiding all dopamine is so true... I have an email I haven't checked in awhile, even thinking of that gave me a little rush so I realized no need to check that email. It somehow triggered this checking for replys/ response. NEVER dating apps again.... That is what killed so many streaks and is the worst. Full on part of the addiction.

Catching up on your journals, good insights there and should be all updated soon!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 12, 2019, 06:06:36 PM
Way to be! It's all progress.

I know the feeling of sadness/guilt that comes with taking it easy. Just today I was a show and I decided to watch one more episode because "it's Friday night." Time to take it easy. I feel pretty good about that decision, but there's still a part of me that's nagging me about how I could have used that hour to do something useful. But rest is useful. Maybe getting in the habit of having lots of naps isn't great, but sometimes it's just what you need, especially if you're struggling to get back on your feet after a relapse. Don't be too hard on yourself for going at your own speed (and not the speed you wish you could go). That's something I'm still trying to learn myself.

And awesome, too, that you're recognizing all the dopamine triggers that are part of the addiction. I feel like that has been a big breakthrough for me. When I was only focused on PMO, I didn't notice all the other things (like social media, video thumbnails, etc.) that were triggering me and contributing to relapses. Recognizing those things for what they were and cutting them out of my life has helped a ton.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on July 13, 2019, 11:01:35 AM
Day 3
Thanks man!

Been catching up on journals and it seems like the super intense "I am not doing enough" mindset is common. So that is something to work on for sure.....

I had been writing down three things I am grateful for everyday for the past 1 and a half months of so. I realized this morning I forgot to do it yesterday. The emotions I felt were wildly intense, like something devastating had happened. Then I started rationalizing okay, it was a mistake to have that goal etc. ! (Reminds me a little bit of when I broke my last streak and suddenly now I should try masturbating and not cut it out..... like an imperfection happens and then being like you know I never should have done that in the first place).

Luckily I pulled myself together and wrote out my gratitude stuff and chalked it up to a learning experience, in the grand scheme of things that one day won't affect me, at the same time I do want to keep my commitments. BUT learning to handle set backs outside or internally and keeping going is likely important.

Didn't feel too good today, but went to the beach and felt a bit better. Thinking a therapist will be real helpful, hit a small snag in finding one but will see...
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 13, 2019, 06:26:32 PM
Hey, I'm sorry you missed a day of gratitude, but I'm glad you got yourself straightened out.

You know, I feel like I've been extra sensitive to small upsets and disappointments in the last few months. I've always been easily discouraged, but it's been more intense lately. Probably because I don't have porn to numb them back down. Either way, I get the feeling. I'm also very familiar with messing up something that's working and then convincing myself it wasn't working. Silly addicted brains playing tricks on us.

Commitment and persistence matter way more than perfection in this fight. A misstep here or there is okay as long as you don't give up on the things that you know are good for you.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Lero on July 14, 2019, 05:17:22 AM
Hey, I'm sorry you missed a day of gratitude, but I'm glad you got yourself straightened out.

You know, I feel like I've been extra sensitive to small upsets and disappointments in the last few months. I've always been easily discouraged, but it's been more intense lately. Probably because I don't have porn to numb them back down. Either way, I get the feeling. I'm also very familiar with messing up something that's working and then convincing myself it wasn't working. Silly addicted brains playing tricks on us.

Commitment and persistence matter way more than perfection in this fight. A misstep here or there is okay as long as you don't give up on the things that you know are good for you.

Yes, I know how this works. PMO numbs you, like a painkiller. It makes me have no emotions. I mean, it makes me feel nothing when I should, as a reaction to something happening. I couldn't even get sad or angry (about PMO-ing too much). When we stop using PMO like a painkiller, or anti-depressants, whatever you want to call it, we actually experience those emotions but we feel them stronger because we haven't been exposed to them for years. Things should stabilize eventually.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: restorationjunkie on July 14, 2019, 08:56:32 AM
You have some good plans to deal with urges on here. I will keep them in mind myself. How are you seeing progress this month?
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on July 15, 2019, 10:31:31 AM
Day 5

I know what you mean, in terms of being more sensitive to small things. Funny enough, I don't remember PMO deadening my emotions, but maybe I have just been fighting it for so long and not fully in it that I can't remember, don't think so though. It would give me a few minutes escape but the negative emotions were right there, and I certainly was not numb about most things.

I had a quite nice day yesterday and a nice morning. I learned a lot.

My social life is really improving. Slowly but surely I feel like I am starting to develop something of a "real social life". I found a new activity I am getting really into, instead of doing a little bit of a million things, I am participating in this one activity as much as I can, running into the same people getting invited to off shoots and hung out with a small group of people to eat and play games afterward last night. Goodness that was so nice. Really made me feel happy and an increased sense of meaning, being part of a group has been something consistently missing from my life.


Anyway, so felt really nice after that, good this morning as well.

A HUGE key for me is practicing mindfulness. I feel much better when I focus on being present. I notice I have the tendency to just burn away loads of energy by getting lost in various exciting fantasies.

Like I felt great this morning and often when I feel great, instead of enjoying the feeling, I start fantasizing about some grandiose victory. I used to be really into sports, I spent an entire bike ride fantasizing in being in this imaginary glorious high pressure situation and winning, over and over and over. To the point my adrenaline was pumping etc. Another example is I was reading these books by Navy seals and I start fantasizing about being a Navy seal and being a war hero etc.

A little embarrassing to write about, but I suppose this sort of thing is normal. You see it in movies and books all the time after all. But for me I can get so lost in fantasy and just lose time. PLUS again, my fantasies can be so intense that I literally have adrenaline pumping, it actually feels like I did just play a sports game or something. Except I didn't, it's just wasted emotional, mental and even physical energy.

Now, it's not the end of the world, but I notice being present really evens out my energy and moods and makes me feel happier. So want to aim for that more and to lower intense fantasies (I think I wrote about this some months back, time to remember it).

This also will greatly aid me in killing the PMO nonsense in my head, all of that junk lives in my fantasy world. I read about this, fantasy can be addictive. People spend more and more time in fantasy and less time enjoying and improving their lives, this their lives deteriorate and they want to spend more time in fantasy......

Edit: Just read what I wrote and to briefly expand.
1) The level of energy is wild! Like my heart way goes waaayyyy up like I am in a real fight or something. 2) It's like a general habit of literally using all of the positive energy. Just feeling it and then going into these fantasies until I drain it all away.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on July 15, 2019, 01:03:18 PM
I think that kind of fantasizing is something very natural, and I'm sure many others including me can relate to this on a deep level. We all want to feel like the hero in our own story, but it often doesn't feel like that way in real life. To "scratch that itch" for lack of a better term, we sometimes have to change what a perception of being a hero is in our minds: for some its being a loving and protecting parent, for others it might be achieving a high skill in some type of job field, for others it might be going on a long PMO streak and having the confidence to never turn to PMO again, and it could also be a combination of many things. We are all on the "hero's journey" to rid ourselves of PMO, it's just not a story that would necessarily be a blockbuster if it were a movie so sometimes our brains want to find a more interesting goal to achieve, regardless of the importance it has to our physical and mental health. Keep on going, you're doing great!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 15, 2019, 07:45:36 PM
I think that kind of fantasizing is something very natural, and I'm sure many others including me can relate to this on a deep level. We all want to feel like the hero in our own story, but it often doesn't feel like that way in real life. To "scratch that itch" for lack of a better term, we sometimes have to change what a perception of being a hero is in our minds: for some its being a loving and protecting parent, for others it might be achieving a high skill in some type of job field, for others it might be going on a long PMO streak and having the confidence to never turn to PMO again, and it could also be a combination of many things. We are all on the "hero's journey" to rid ourselves of PMO, it's just not a story that would necessarily be a blockbuster if it were a movie so sometimes our brains want to find a more interesting goal to achieve, regardless of the importance it has to our physical and mental health. Keep on going, you're doing great!

Wow, that's an awesome thought! I want to second that wholeheartedly!

And I'm right with you on mindfulness. Centering myself on the present  has been a huge help to me in recovery this year. Plus, I've read enough studies that talk about how meditation can physically change the brain to make me think there's really something to using mindfulness and meditation as a way to heal from addiction.

Keep it going!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: squid on July 15, 2019, 10:24:56 PM
I think that kind of fantasizing is something very natural, and I'm sure many others including me can relate to this on a deep level. We all want to feel like the hero in our own story, but it often doesn't feel like that way in real life. To "scratch that itch" for lack of a better term, we sometimes have to change what a perception of being a hero is in our minds: for some its being a loving and protecting parent, for others it might be achieving a high skill in some type of job field, for others it might be going on a long PMO streak and having the confidence to never turn to PMO again, and it could also be a combination of many things. We are all on the "hero's journey" to rid ourselves of PMO, it's just not a story that would necessarily be a blockbuster if it were a movie so sometimes our brains want to find a more interesting goal to achieve, regardless of the importance it has to our physical and mental health. Keep on going, you're doing great!

Anyone that wakes up in the morning and says in their mind, "Today is going to be a better day", and trys to make it so, is a hero.  You are too.  Keep going man!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Lero on July 16, 2019, 03:09:26 AM
Anyone that wakes up in the morning and says in their mind, "Today is going to be a better day", and trys to make it so, is a hero.  You are too.  Keep going man!

I think it's a better idea to start the day thinking positively. It could change the way you feel the whole day.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on July 17, 2019, 10:47:58 AM
Great points guys...

Unfortunately back at day 0. Seems like I am in that annoying slip every few days after a long streak snapped mode....

At least my slips have not been too terrible.

I know exactly what did it though.....

#1) I looked in the mirror and thought I should lose a bit of fat. I am by no means over weight but am not as lean as I have been at times, been working out and felt I looked just average.... I decided to try and not eat carbs for the day just to lean out a little.... Ate way too little. Man my body did not respond well I just got starving and exhausted by the end of the day and then I ate a whole bunch, which was fine but I think it set off a bit a binge instinct. Mostly though, it was allowing my mind and body to be exhausted by the hunger that did it.... So no more stupid diets, eat healthy and plenty. I am not all into 12 step but they do have an acronym HALT- Hungry Angry Lonely Tired... can all be possible triggers. Some truth to that.

Correction- Eat healthy and plenty no diets just healthy food AND start running again. I'd been focused on lifting and not doing much cardio. If I want to lean out a bit, just run which is great for me mentally and I wanted to do anyway.

#2) Fantasized a whole bunch about sex the day before.

#3) Let apartment get really messy.

And finally- Don't have a plan for urges. I had like no urges remotely for days. Then just pretty much decided to lapse. I was just like "okay, I want to lapse I'll do it" minimal resistance. Thats a bit frustrating.

I tried the therapist- Honestly, it wasn't good. Will look into another. I felt worse after and got thrown off from it. 
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on July 17, 2019, 11:09:47 AM
It's all good man, yeah I understand while it feels annoying but don't let that hurt your confidence moving forward. You know you can do this as you have done it before, and we all know you can do it too.

It's crazy how everything is connected: If I eat/workout right, my work gets better, my urges are easier to deal with, I'm better with my relationships. I also get better sleep, and the same is true if I don't do well on any of those things, it affects everything else. I often try to compartmentalize my life but in doing so I make compromises, for example: I'll skip my workout and eat some fast-food, but I gotta make sure to do my work after. Even if that's what I do, I won't feel as good doing it and therefore won't be as effective. Of course, there are moments to treat yourself, but that is all connected to prolonged periods of doing the right thing, allowing your body and mind a small break from changing for the better.

As far as a plan for urges, I guess my plan recently has been to not have a plan...as in literally do nothing to engage with the urge. In the past, my relapses have often come from me trying to reason with myself in my head why I shouldn't watch P. This works alot of the time, but sometimes no matter what you say to yourself there is a part of your brain that makes a compelling counter-argument, and I end up relapsing. Now I try to recognize when I have the urge, and be as zen as possible. Either return to the task I'm doing, or take a break and pay attention to the physical sensations and emotion. In other words, quiet the voice inside of your head because you already know that no PMO is the right thing to do, so allowing you to try to explain to yourself why it's wrong (something you have done before, so it is not needed) will only open up the opportunity to falsely convince yourself otherwise.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Lero on July 17, 2019, 12:30:52 PM
As far as a plan for urges, I guess my plan recently has been to not have a plan...as in literally do nothing to engage with the urge. In the past, my relapses have often come from me trying to reason with myself in my head why I shouldn't watch P. This works alot of the time, but sometimes no matter what you say to yourself there is a part of your brain that makes a compelling counter-argument, and I end up relapsing. Now I try to recognize when I have the urge, and be as zen as possible. Either return to the task I'm doing, or take a break and pay attention to the physical sensations and emotion. In other words, quiet the voice inside of your head because you already know that no PMO is the right thing to do, so allowing you to try to explain to yourself why it's wrong (something you have done before, so it is not needed) will only open up the opportunity to falsely convince yourself otherwise.

I understand this because I've been doing it a little bit. When urges hit me I just...did nothing. I didn't move my hands, I didn't do anything, just waited there. Then you realize that actually those urges come and go.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 17, 2019, 06:26:27 PM
As far as a plan for urges, I guess my plan recently has been to not have a plan...as in literally do nothing to engage with the urge. In the past, my relapses have often come from me trying to reason with myself in my head why I shouldn't watch P. This works alot of the time, but sometimes no matter what you say to yourself there is a part of your brain that makes a compelling counter-argument, and I end up relapsing. Now I try to recognize when I have the urge, and be as zen as possible. Either return to the task I'm doing, or take a break and pay attention to the physical sensations and emotion. In other words, quiet the voice inside of your head because you already know that no PMO is the right thing to do, so allowing you to try to explain to yourself why it's wrong (something you have done before, so it is not needed) will only open up the opportunity to falsely convince yourself otherwise.

Yeah, I think my strategy is pretty similar. Sometimes I will say something to myself like "Thanks for the suggestion, but I"m not going to do that right now." Other times, it seems like my brain is worried that I'm "missing out" on seeing someone super attractive or something, and I'll just say "It doesn't matter," just to remind myself that I'm not actually losing anything by abstaining. Sometimes I say it out loud. But, for the most part, I do just try to take thought out of it and to focus my attention on something else, sometimes the sensation of the urge (but that can sometimes make it feel stronger) but mostly my breath. Without attention, the urges die away eventually. Attention, whether we're flirting with them or shouting at them, usually just makes them stronger.

Sorry to hear about the restart, but a fresh start is always an exciting opportunity to do something new/better. Don't forget to take care of yourself!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 16, 2019, 10:56:06 AM
Been awhile. A lot to update I suppose but will start with the pressing:

Was on the bus and looking at someone gave me a bit of an urge. Urges coming far more powerfully and suddenly at the moment. Today is day 1.....

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on September 16, 2019, 09:27:00 PM
It really has been, but welcome back!

It's crazy how urges can vary in intensity. But it's awesome that you're aware of it and reaching out for support.

Go have a great Day 2!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 17, 2019, 08:33:57 AM
Thanks bro! I want to wish I hadn't stayed away for so long but that's in the past now. Will be a lot to update at some point.....

Starting a new job today. Procrastinated on some things I had to get done for it, but aiming to just do the best that I can now and hopefully learn for the next time.

Went for a run this morning, it felt really good. I just started running consistently and it's cool to see my fitness improving. A morning workout was a great confidence boost. My urges were pretty crazy yesterday but basically none today feeling a lot clearer headed. I think that's due to solid workout program and meditation program I just started. BUT this does not mean get arrogant. The urges will come for sure and it will be tough again, so have to do the right things and be prepared.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on September 17, 2019, 05:23:29 PM
Congrats on the new job and the new workout and meditation program!

You know it already, but this recovery is about so much more than just quitting PMO. It's really about building a new, better life.

As for feeling bad you spent some time away, I wish I had joined this forum years ago, but I didn't. Things happen and we all have our own path. What matters is that you're here today and back at it.

Keep it up!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 18, 2019, 05:59:38 AM
Thanks so much bro! So true, recovery and changing habits is so critical and rewarding. Yes, I guess that's just how it is..... in terms of the past, can only move forward and use that as motivation to be a few years down the road looking back so glad about getting this done now.

Good day yesterday,I enjoyed the new job had a good run in the morning did some yoga after work, good stuff. As I fell asleep I seemingly innocently was thinking about girls, in a fairly "sweet/innocent" way. It seemed good like I just calmly fell asleep, but I know in the past and depending on where my brain is, that has caused me issue so be cautious.

Looking forward to the day, I am happy about my new job. (Remember I had gotten a great job before? It was not at all what it seemed). So hopefully with this one it remains good and I can put any inevitable issues with it into perspective. Not being too extreme.

Edit:
Just updating have a bit of a craving not too strong. Ended up off at work today and the free time is a trigger.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on September 18, 2019, 06:34:58 PM
Good stuff, staying aware and engaged with your thoughts and feelings.

Cravings are only a problem (obviously) if we give into them. Lately, I have had some success thanking the craving for the suggestion but then saying no thank you. It helps me avoid adding more anger and pressure to the process than is already a part of it naturally. Just acknowledge it, move on, and put another day in the bag.

Keep going!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 19, 2019, 06:13:53 AM
Thanks man! I definitely ought to use that.


Unfortunately I had a slip last night. Not nearly as bad as the previous ones, but a slip none the less. I MO'd to fantasy, fantasy of girls I actually had experiences with, but the fantasies with them escalated to pmo fetish ones, thought not super extreme. Oh well I have to get right back to it.

What caused this lapse is..... I wrote about the other night thinking about girls how it was fine that night but I know it's been an issue in the past, well sure enough I literally decided to do that last night (irrational) I literally decided to with minimal urge and soon after I had a moderate urge but with rationalization that MO will be okay.

A few lessons
1) Just keep moving forward. Unfortunately since breaking my long streak some months ago, it was the worst months in years in terms of this addiction, maybe the worst since I first quit. Bummer. So I may have to do a little extra work to heal.
2) Again keep moving forward lol. The reason it was so bad was.... After I had the slip breaking my streak. I decided "well Mo is okay" it of course wasn't okay. The reason I decided it wasn't okay was rationalization.... I broke my streak and FELT like I could not face "starting over" (Though I had made good progress and it would not have been starting over). So don't make that mistake again..... have to move forward with this no matter what. Had I kept moving forward I'd likely be in a pretty good place now. Oh well live and learn.
3) MO IS NOT OKAY. This became my chief rationalization that led to lapses and relapses in these months. You guys called it. It still is. It is just the addictions new trick. The thought "MO is okay" often led to the very worst parts of the addiction. Not even after getting bored of MOing. Going directly to them.... it's not rational it's just one of the addiction rationalization's my most dangerous at the moment. I have to realise that thought= Danger! Get my self on the forum ASAP to fight that thought.
4) Meditate earlier in day. Did a night meditation. Meditation is wonderful but doing it too later when tired becomes a trigger, I sometimes fall asleep during it, which is useless. Or even worse my mind wonders to P fantasy and can lead to powerful urges when I am less prepared to deal with them.

Anyway, just gonna keep moving forward. Thanks for the support! I think the short goals system seems to work well many, so I'll give it a go. First goal 10 days. Today is day 1.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Lero on September 19, 2019, 06:35:59 AM
Some P addicts (if not the biggest part of them) really don't benefit from MO. The explanation we bring up with MO is that it's harmless and only PMO is the problem. From my experience and other users around here, we really should stay away from MO too. MO makes me enter flatline for a few days where I feel like shit. First of all, why would I want to throw away my well-being for days of flatline just for a MO? It's not even intense like P. It doesn't even compare. It's weed vs crack. After 21 days I felt like a rocket, I MO-ed and felt completely like shit for the next 4 days. Also, the chaser effect is real and it was literally killing me. I literally fought all fucking day long to avoid switching to P or MO-ing even more. It's the repercussion of abusing PMO so much. Last but important for me (it could mean nothing to others), I can't be satisfied with MO-ing alone in my room. It reminds me even more about my dry spell. All this being said, why the fuck would I MO anyway? I'll tell you why: Because the brain tricks me into giving it dopamine by MO. That's why. Otherwise, why would MO be such a big deal? It's like drinking beer and trying to convince myself that I am not an alcoholic cause this is not vodka. MO stimulates the same part of the brain. It's the same arousal, same O. It's just not that intense like P. Without being a P addict, I wouldn't want to masturbate at all. I would use MO as a PMO substitute in a way. Eventually that would lead back to P. Hard mode is the best in my opinion. The fastest, the safest. You don't play with fire, you don't give yourself flatlines, chaser effects and all this bullshit. Of course, the withdrawal could get brutal without any form of giving dopamine to the brain but nothing has only advantages. The world has advantages and disadvantages. I am willing to suffer the withdrawal if this makes me feel better in the long run.   
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on September 19, 2019, 05:24:54 PM
Sorry about the slip, but it sounds like you're getting right back to work which is exactly the thing to do.

Keep moving forward, and then, like you said, when you're done with that keep moving forward. I really believe that the only way to fail is to quit. It doesn't matter if you're going 60 miles an hour or 5, you're still getting closer to a life of freedom.

So it's definitely not something to treat like no big deal, definitely take the slip seriously. But find some joy in knowing that it could have been (way) worse and that tomorrow is a new day!

Keep moving forward!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 19, 2019, 09:24:27 PM
Thanks man!

Well at least the slip provided evidence how bad this shit is. Felt like this intense emotional pain that is tough to describe, just angry at everything irritable. Then there was other feelings, anxiety and tension in my chest, bad headache low energy and a deep feeling, that can almost be described as like my soul hurting.

Anyway it was very difficult, but with the help of lots (for me) of caffeine (not to be over done, but I think it boosts dopamine so can help with withdrawals) I was able to feel just bad and perform at work. I busted my ass working super hard and that really made me feel better. Lil urge home now....

Back on the horse. Looking forward to tomorrow being day two : )
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on September 20, 2019, 07:28:32 PM
Yeah, those urges and feelings can be really awful. Caffeine maybe isn't a long term solution, but I think it's probably okay in the early stages. I know that the first time I really tried quitting the only way I could get through the day was with candy bars. That's definitely not a healthy replacement for porn, but I needed something to take the edge off without relapsing and that did the trick.

I have also had some success just focusing on the sensations that arise when I experience an urge. Like, instead of saying "This is an urge, I have to fight it," I just say, "I feel tension between my stomach and my chest." Then I just observe that sensation and focus on my breath. Somehow, it sort of takes the intensity out of the urge. I still feel the sensation, but it stops being like a craving for porn and turns into just some feeling in my body that I can let go of after a while. Something to try, maybe.

But way to make it through a day! Day 2 is a great day, just focus on getting through it clean at any cost!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 20, 2019, 08:22:57 PM
day 2
Thanks man! Great tip... yeah I think that's a good way to look at it, Caffeine as a temporary thing.

Today worked hard at work got myself tired. Some of it was me duplicating effort being a little too hyper. Oh well, I am making progress at work and stress can be good somtimes. Was incredibly tired after and felt a bit of an urge. Gotta watch that! Text from a girl was vaguely triggering. It was just her saying something nice... but it had me wishing she was with me (she is in another city) and that can lead to bad places.

Well tomorrow'll be day 3.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 21, 2019, 12:39:15 PM
Slipped again.... a bit worse this time. One mo with fetish/pmo fantasy and 2 this am thinking about girls.....

Hmmm. At least I am staying with posting, key is stay here and keep moving forward.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on September 21, 2019, 06:55:51 PM
Definitely, posting regularly is a big thing to keep in place (I know it has helped me a ton).

Sorry about the slip! I'm not giving you any excuses or anything, but it least is wasn't a full-on PMO binge. Maybe worse than your last slip, but don't forget that growth isn't linear.

Now you know that those fantasies just aren't worth it. They're fun, but they aren't worth the risk. That's what I keep telling myself, "Yeah, I might enjoy X, but it just isn't worth the risk of relapse. Better to miss out than run the risk."

On to a new day!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 22, 2019, 07:55:20 AM
Unfortunately continued the lapse yesterday and it was bad. Don't like admitting it but... it was looking at ads and texting them, that's so self destructive. Lowers my confidence but.... one thing makes me feel better...

The realization that, I essentially have no plan to handle urges or pmo thoughts at the moment... so of course this is happening. In the past I always had activities to do to distract myself or would plan on posting etc. being aware of the urge is a great idea, but for me, what has given me success is having something else to do as well.

Action steps:
1) Come up with plans of activities to do when urges arise
2) Implement that plan
3) Stay of the internet other then for work ESPECIALLY on my phone. I had cut youtube etc. out of my life, having them back sucks and is super triggering.

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 22, 2019, 07:57:41 AM
Day 1

Wanted to stay in bed upon alarm (which was already late) but that went BAD yesterday so I got up. Will do laundry shortly and a little exercise (making up for missed day yesterday). Feel behind on some stuff, at least I have been pretty productive at work
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: kopp on September 22, 2019, 09:45:42 AM
Hey man :) You're OK. You've done great and you'll do great again. Enjoy your life no matter your streak :)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 22, 2019, 10:28:45 AM
Thanks Kopp! That means a lot, the support really means a lot. Glad to be back here, and think I'll post even more... it worked in the past so why not do what worked?

Could use a little help on something... I realize I really need to PLAN to quit not just say I am going to do it. But, I feel like maybe I have too many ideas.
My ideas include:
Go for a walk every evening this week to clear mind and not be in apartment doing nothing during evening
For urges leave apartment and go to building garden and.... do something there to distract self?
Have a goal of doing the above^ 3x a day, so I'll leave at even the slightest urge/thought of pmo which will build the habit.

Hmmm. Seem decent ideas to me, but keep having different ones popping up you know? Want to have a solid plan to handle urges and emotions to an extent.

In other news, it was so shitty idk 24 hours but I had a nice run just now. Running is so great for the mind. That was the start of regaining some clarity.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: kopp on September 22, 2019, 11:01:24 AM
Do what makes sense.

I have a habit of going outside every morning but I never made it into a goal. And some days I don't go outside. And I feel fine with that.

How many ideas do you have? What about trying one new each week? You'll soon see what sticks :)
What are the other ideas? And which one will you apply/try tonight?
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 22, 2019, 03:49:35 PM
That sounds like a good idea...
I honestly forgot most of them at this point lol. The one that makes the most sense, odd as it sounds is leaving my place 3x a day to avoid an urge. This is the biggest thing I am missing, just been basically in the habit of not taking actions I don't feel like taking or of avoiding urges.


Pretty low key day, doing some work stuff on the phone. Went to the beach. On way home had a weak urge. That is a trigger for me... heading home. I get thoughts like "when I get home I will_________". Now home I had a brief thought of this girl I like. For the last week or so that led to a lapse every time, right now there are no healthy thoughts that are remotely sexual.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on September 22, 2019, 06:39:47 PM
Sorry, man. I know, for me, that once a relapse starts it sometimes takes a day or two to work itself out of my system. Sorry to hear it came back with a vengeance, but your honesty is important. Thanks for trusting us with it.

Like Kopp said, do what makes sense. Do what you can imagine doing every time for the rest of your life. This recovery process has been a big process of finding small things that I can stick to long term. For example, I have been learning to meditate for a few years, but it has really become a valuable tool for me in the last couple months. When an urge arises, I just focus on how it feels and then put my attention into my breath. The urge usually goes away pretty quickly when I just refuse to pay attention to the sexual thoughts that come with it. It might come back, but then I can just turn to my breathing again. It's small, simple, and with practice has begun to be something that I do almost automatically.

But I didn't figure that out without plenty of trial and error. Try things out, accept that you might slip up along the way, but keep giving it your best. You'll find what works for you, and that's the most important thing.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 22, 2019, 09:48:27 PM
Thanks! Really looking forward to getting to that level, I think that takes practice. Trial and error as well a simple increased ability to focus... Had a fairly good healthy day. Looked up a sport result for about 3 minutes on my phone, which although small and did not get out of hand, still can be dangerous.

Had dinner with a friend which was nice. Planning to READ until I sleep. No "innocent" thoughts about women, as they are not innocent and led to lapses almost every time lately. 
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 23, 2019, 07:35:39 AM
Day 2. Wow, I am happy to be at day 2. The nice thing about yesterday, I was quite strict. When I saw women and was tempted to look at body parts I simply looked away, like completely away turning my head to look at trees or whatever. My emotions told me otherwise and I felt some discomfort doing this, that's a good thing I had almost forgotten that I can actually have an urge, or more mildly a desire to look at a girl and not act on it. I remember reading on here and finding out for my self quality of reboot makes a big difference, like the further away from the wrong type of stimulation the better.

Feeling an increase in motivation and confidence today. But I ought to use that to make today successful, NOT to be arrogant. I need to keep doing what I did yesterday. Here are some things that worked:

Having a goal of leaving the apartment 3 times a day to kill urges (causes me to leave at even very mild urges building the habit and nipping urges in the bud)
Controlling self, looking away from women when it's inappropriate to my recovery
I think there was one more, but I left to the garden when a thought popped up and now forgot lol

For today, I want to leave the apartment to kill an urge at night (this is in addition to doing this at least 3x total). Simple reason, I had just been "soft" recently especially about doing stuff like this.

I feel like I am going to take it a little easy with work today, I don't have too many commitments and also put in some efforts to talk to women again, I feel motivated to do this so I figure I'll take advantage of that feeling.



Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 23, 2019, 06:23:52 PM
Decent day today, got some work done. Went to talk to girls, got 2 girls numbers. 1 I think nothing will come of one, the other one I am supposed to see tonight, but she does not live here, it'll be nice to have female company though.

As I was talking to girls at one point I got sort of this "Omg I gotta talk to more, omg so many girls!" Compulsive type of feeling, so at that time I stopped and left. I think that is good, I felt I feel a healthy desire to go out and meet women today, but at some point when it felt like a compulsive sexual/ desparate thing... I stopped. Which is how I should do it. Recognize the feelings and change course.

Have more work stuff to get done this evening. The key is just do it keep the mind clear. Worrying about it makes it so hard, many of the actual actions take seconds...

Tonight I MUST STAY VIGILANT. I am feeling good and want to think about girls fantasize about them... I KNOW WHERE THAT LEADS. So let me put my book out ready to read, and enjoy my quiet time of reading when I get back home.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on September 23, 2019, 08:45:51 PM
The nice thing about yesterday, I was quite strict. When I saw women and was tempted to look at body parts I simply looked away, like completely away turning my head to look at trees or whatever. My emotions told me otherwise and I felt some discomfort doing this, that's a good thing I had almost forgotten that I can actually have an urge, or more mildly a desire to look at a girl and not act on it.

As I was talking to girls at one point I got sort of this "Omg I gotta talk to more, omg so many girls!" Compulsive type of feeling, so at that time I stopped and left. I think that is good, I felt I feel a healthy desire to go out and meet women today, but at some point when it felt like a compulsive sexual/ desparate thing... I stopped. Which is how I should do it. Recognize the feelings and change course.

Both of these moments are so great. You're exactly right to notice how you are feeling and then act accordingly. Just because the women are "real" doesn't mean you can't still treat them like porn. Recognizing those urges/trigger feelings is a huge thing, and then doing what you need to do to squash those feelings is fantastic. Keep doing exactly that. On some level, I'm pretty sure you know the difference between looking at a woman you are attracted to and interested in starting a relationship with and then just looking at a woman to get your "fix." Awesome work correcting yourself when you slip into "getting your fix" mode.

A strong day 2 for sure. Keep it going!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 23, 2019, 10:07:43 PM
Thanks man! Yes, definitely need to screen girls harder for relationship qualities.

So the "date" lasted about idk 40 min and was about as bad as could be. Was quite upset but very happy with how I handled my feelings. I had a strong urge, was in my apartment but decided to go to the garden (as planned)! I felt much better and ran into some of my neighbors from the building and hung out with them for awhile, by the end of it my emotions have almost fully passed.

Some lessons I learned.
1) Have higher standards with girls or at least don't just be super into a girl just because she seems interested and is attractive.... long story short this girl just ditched me on the date without saying anything. There is the temptation to let that lower my confidence, but honestly I don't see anything wrong with the date, I think she was more of a party girl type and wanted something like that. Anyways, I was like selling myself on liking her, just because she was hanging out with me (to be fair maybe that neediness was sensed) but really? She can't even make an excuse? The type of woman I would want to date would never do something like that, she'd feel bad. She'd generally treat people well. So this girl 1000% did not deserve my desire. Curiosity? Yes. But I projected on to her, when I really knew nothing about her. So future dates... don't jump right in to thinking a girl is awesome, actually let her prove herself.
2) Heading down to my garden during the urge (and was upset) I had the thought like "man I need to escape". That I think is one of the ultimate aspects of PMO it's an escape, so find other healthy ways to "escape"/ take a break. Going to the nice garden definetly is one good option like that.
3) I wanted to immediately text the other girl ( the one who doesn't seem that interested). Almost like a gambler chasing a loss... no no no. Let the emotions subside. It's like I felt like this date would go well, it didn't so I felt like I need something to make up for it now.
First of all, other girls sense that desperation and that would only push new dating options a way. Second of all, that impulsiveness/ get what I want now is a big part the pmo problem and addiction. Instant gratification and no ambiguity. I'd text another girl and get no response likely, then feel like I needed something now, so maybe try tinder or even jump right to surfing escort website and moing which is a relapse. Dealing with ambiguity, big part of beating this addiction.

There are other lessons to learn from the date I think also. Pay more attention to the girl. I projected on to her, just because the girl was pretty and LOOKED sweet. It was all physical. I wasn't listening to what she was saying. She was defensive and all over the place in her life. Had I listened to her, I'd realize she was not the type of girl for me and probably not been as surprised at what she did.....

I NEED to write out what I am looking for in women. I have learned this before.... chasing girls just based off looks stinks so bad

Going to read then sleep and on to day 3!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 24, 2019, 06:59:06 AM
Day 3.
Well, thats nice... to be on day 3! Not feeling very good this morning but happy to be making progress. Laid in bed a little bit this morning. I felt a little upset about the girl and I noticed when I thought about it a very brief flash of a porn video fantasy popped into my head, less than a second, feeling no feelings that felt like arousal or anything. This stuff really really is an escape for me it was so direct. Bad feeling-> thoughts of pmo etc. 

Anyway, have a little stress at work at the moment, but not the end of the world.... it's a very silly situation.
About to head for a run.

Also Note: My apartment is in DIRE need of a cleaning. So mush schedule that in today, it's not just organizing it's getting gross.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 24, 2019, 04:01:59 PM
Well did a bunch of work today. Was real tired by the end of it. On the way home I was aware of the though like "I should pmo" or whatever. So just posting. I think for now, instead of that (of course) it'd be nice to rest recharge and relax in other ways.... thinking to just sit down and read a bit let my mind reset, then go from there.
May go to the beach
Do need to do some cleaning (but rest first!)
There is a yoga class I'd like to go to, but physically I am pretty exhausted so I'll probably sit out this one.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 24, 2019, 05:07:43 PM
Very tired, ended up eating a bunch at home and talking on phone. Then just laying on couch I had the thought "I feel stressed and bad, I need sex right now". Which is a total trick from the addiction. It's like I need sex/ a woman now then my mind is like "oh I don't have any women here" I should mo to crazy pmo fetishes or do whatever other crazy stuff.

So that's a trick of the mind. What I really would like, is a healthy way to relax, I am a little triggered in my apartment, so how about I'll make things as easy on myself as possible. Throw on a bathing suit, bring a book a towel and nothing else and just lay on the beach and read for as long as I like until I feel better.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 24, 2019, 06:22:09 PM
Well, had a pretty nice time at the beach but triggered again. I feel bad and I want to impulsively do something that feels good. Looking up activities and stuff but my brain is like PMO etc.! So perhaps maybe I ought to do the yoga class, even though I am tired.....

I'd like to clean but I don't think I am going to clean, I am sitting around doing not much. Actually going to yoga is probably better then theoretically cleaning while actually having an urge or pmoing..... Okay so my goal will be to get out of the apartment within the next 25 min...
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 24, 2019, 06:42:03 PM
Really tired... going to watch a little comedy on netflix. Screen time has been a mistake in the past, but figure I'll at least post about it to hold myself accountable and not do anything bad after that. Plan is to watch a comedy special
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on September 24, 2019, 06:56:55 PM
Push on! Recovery can really suck the energy out of you. Find what you can do and don't sweat the things that just aren't possible right now.

I really like what you said about how a girl might deserve your curiosity but not your desire. That's really interesting, and I'll have to think about it some more. I think I definitely have jumped to "desire" really fast when "curiosity" would have been the better choice. If you're just curious, it's no big deal if things don't work out. Now you know. If you get to desire too quickly then it becomes a bigger problem when it doesn't work out.

It's probably smart to get out of the house and do something different if you're feeling triggered (like a yoga class), but don't put off cleaning the apartment for too long. I have definitely noticed a correlation between a messy apartment and relapses (not saying there's any causation, but I know I feel and do better when the place is clean).

Keep going!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 25, 2019, 06:44:18 AM
Day 4

Thanks! Definitely very important to clean... Last night did not go to yoga, watched a little comedy, then luckily a friend called and we talked for a long time, I went out and walked around while we talked. Woke up feeling really bad, stressed and worried about what is probably a small situation as well as feeling sad and kind of a "what's the point feeling". But coming in this forum really has me feeling better (not good but way less bad).

For now, one day at a time. So for today, I'd like to clean for sure. Do what I need to do for work. Reflect on goals a bit (I'd really like to have some things to motivate me) and if I  am in the right headspace, maybe talk to some girls (don't do it in desperation mindset AND focus on "curiosity" over desire). Luckily one of my friends will be around today, so I'll stop and see him AND wow just realized (as I was writing) some other friends will be around today, that is big because a big thing I have is feeling lonely. I think that is a big part of the other emotions I am feeling.

I did not leave the house three times last night to go to garden, let me make sure I do that at least once today.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 25, 2019, 09:49:50 AM
Having some urges... Well I managed to clean up for about 30 minutes, so it's no longer terrible in here. So that is nice. I have the laundry in the dryer. Not feeling to good and still feeling off track. But just get through the day and move forward is key. Thinking I'll go grab some coffee (again not ideal but as a temporary thing). Not sure whats next, have a lot I want to do, having difficulty planning.

Okay one step at a time.
Step 1) Get dressed
Step 2) Go get coffee

Edit ( about 30 min later so I am not posting 500x a day):
Had the coffee, I feel a little bit better, don't want to over do it of course but caffeine calms me...
Okay next step, going to read very briefly this book about visualizing then will visualize for likely 10 minutes. (which I believe will motivate me)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 25, 2019, 07:59:06 PM
Had a pretty good day. I visualized which gave me a big boost, I think it really helped my workout which was great. I got some work done, some things didn't go my way but it didn't bother me too much.

I have to note the "risks" though. To relax (my back and shoulders have been super tight) I went to get a massage today. Some moments I felt a little triggered and had thoughts pop into my head but I pushed them out. Still it's something to be cautious of, because I have heard of this being triggering for people. So this is something to watch and I welcome feedback, I exchanged numbers with the massage therapist to occasionally get massages in the future, but some thoughts popped into my head...

Cleaned a bit, not to the level I wanted but decent enough. I've been on netflix a decent bit, so that is something to watch and perhaps eliminate in the future.

I am a having a mild urge, some parts of it are scary like "Oh let me just look at a escort website" without much feeling but not feeling much resistance. Anyways, I gotta be aware of that and look forward to tomorrow day 4!

I am thinking I will work really hard in the morning until early afternoon/late morning or so, getting done what I need to get done and reward myself with going to the beach and talking to some girls (presuming I am in the right mindset for that).
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on September 25, 2019, 08:18:11 PM
Sounds like an okay day. Taking it one day at a time, even one step at a time, is a great way to go. And sometimes those steps aren't very big, and that's okay. I'm a huge supporter of taking some time out for comedy. At least for me, it distracts from the urges and gets me in a better mood so that the urges don't feel as necessary for coping with life.

I definitely know those "what's the point" feelings. They come at me sometimes, usually at the end of the day. For the most part, I can sleep them off, but they do come back from time to time. I don't really have a great solution to them other than to keep pressing on (there is a point!) and to realize that we have been using porn for so long to level out our highs and lows and keep our emotions artificially stable. I think on some level, these wider swings of emotion are just a part of the recovery process and of getting back in touch with our real emotions.

Keep going!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 26, 2019, 06:51:47 AM
Day 5.

Thanks man... yeah in moderation comedy is probably a really good idea.
Really happy to be on day 5. One step at a time is really key.... what might come up today that could be a challenge? I am getting a little bit of a slow start most mornings, but that is not the end of the world.

I'll stay ready to head outside if an urge pops up. I think it'd be nice to do some more writing today. Visualizing was great, so I'll do that again.

Not too much on my mind. Looking forward to winning the day.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Lero on September 26, 2019, 07:44:11 AM
Yeah, man, the addicted brain tries everything. If you make it clear that you won't give it hard stuff, it will try to make you give it soft stuff. If you don't want to give it this either, it will try to find the smallest thing ever that still stimulates you, and attempt to escalate from there. We really need to starve the brain completely. From the smallest thing ever to the hard stuff. For this, we need to know everything that stimulates our addicted brain. If you think you've discovered everything, then you are ready to stay away from it.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 26, 2019, 07:59:21 AM
More urges today, not strong feelings but stuff popping into my head. Just gotta keep going, one day at a time. Do what ever I need to to get past them.

Other then that feeling pretty good, energy is a little higher and looking forward to lifting which is scheduled for tomorrow.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 26, 2019, 03:00:03 PM
Day is going decently well. I had another good workout, it's nice to see progress in that area. Work I handled pretty well. I had wanted to go talk to girls, but I think I'll make the executive decision to skip that for now.... I feel a bit triggered and that impulsive "I need to meet a girl now!" feeling that is super irrational.

For example, I was near a girl on the bus as we walked off, I noticed one of her body parts (that's it not her face nothing) and I got this rush and this feeling like "I want that" and I wanted to look again, I forced myself not to which was great. But the thing is, it's so irrational. Because thats a woman right there. The way I look at the body part isn't even sexual on the reality sense. It's just this strong feeling like "I want that" it's not even a desire for sex. It's really just an urge to look and stare and when I stare or think about it the thoughts are like " I need that now" but again there is no definition of what that is. It's just  a desire to stare and that leads to a desire to pmo or to fantasies about pmo fetishes, even if they have no connection to what I am looking at.

Anyway, glad I got myself to look away and am challenging those thoughts, they are so irrational. I think I'll recharge a little bit, with caution and see what is next.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on September 26, 2019, 05:39:39 PM
For example, I was near a girl on the bus as we walked off, I noticed one of her body parts (that's it not her face nothing) and I got this rush and this feeling like "I want that" and I wanted to look again, I forced myself not to which was great. But the thing is, it's so irrational. Because thats a woman right there. The way I look at the body part isn't even sexual on the reality sense. It's just this strong feeling like "I want that" it's not even a desire for sex. It's really just an urge to look and stare and when I stare or think about it the thoughts are like " I need that now" but again there is no definition of what that is. It's just  a desire to stare and that leads to a desire to pmo or to fantasies about pmo fetishes, even if they have no connection to what I am looking at.

This is a really good way of putting. I know a few people challenged or questioned my idea early on that looking at women was a problem, with the idea that it's normal and good to be attracted to women. But I think your description makes it really clear how porn-minded looking is really different from being attracted. It's all about looking and it just reinforces the pattern of behavior in pmo, just away from a screen.

Way to stay present and mindful in the moment, catching yourself, redirecting, and processing what happened. I really think that's game-changing stuff. And it will keep changing for the better if you commit to redirecting in the moment like that.

Stick with it and get through another day. Just one more! (At least for now)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 26, 2019, 06:13:40 PM
Thanks bro! Glad you get it too. Yes it is soooo different from actual attraction to a woman, these isn't even any real desire for sex, other then maybe to masturbate to the thought of sex for some, but for me it doesn't even get that far. It makes perfect sense, pmo is training our brains to look at these images and get this addictive response urge, so women's body parts can just get categorized as higher quality 3 dimensional porn... but with time that habit can break. Plus we even see porn effects people in real life sex. People being more impulsive, less present, needing more stimulation and excitement. We're not trying to be asexual but if we think something is unhealthy, it normally is. The physical response and feeling to impulsive/ addictive stuff is very very different from the feeling of attraction and natural sexuality.

Just had a really nice time at the beach. So, awhile ago I talked about perhaps swimming more, I think I have to take the plunge. I am so afraid of so many things and there is a lot I am missing out on. I love excitement but I've been afraid to really swim in the ocean, been afraid to try things like skateboarding etc. Really my problem with texting escorts, is all about excitement and fear. That's what it does for me, excitement and fear. I am a person who loves adrenaline and excitement and if I am honest I feel bored with a lot of my life, that's not to say my life is bad just I am letting fear and laziness keep me away from the exciting shit I want to do, then doing PMO risking stupid shit etc. to get the excitement.
t think the way to do it is this: Allow healthy fear in my life but not take stupid risks.
1) I used to love swimming out a couple hundred feet into the ocean and swimming down and around. Now I don't because I became terrified of sharks. In fact a shark swam up behind me when I was in shallow water. It terrified me and since then I barely go past waste level. Now, this sounds scary to everyone BUT A) Now when I feel freaking anything brush my skin (normally seaweed or a two inch long fish) I run the hell out of the water). B) This was a small reef shark, they do not attack humans and the shark swam away. Literally sharks essentially don't attack people. In my city I believe there are ZERO recorded shark attacks. It's just something that doesn't really happen. So Swimming out with precaution is not a real risk. It's just terrifying. But perhaps a healthy way to feel fear and excitement.
2) Skateboarding- I have injuries and don't want more. But perhaps fast skateboarding with a helmet on flat ground is fairly safe and still fun.
3) Wind surfing/ similar sport.
4) Maybe jet skiing. (but it's expensive) as an occasional thing.

You know what maybe I'll set a goal to do one of these exciting things in a certain time frame. I wanted to say a week but then I realized the one I could probably do within a week is swim out into the ocean but that scared the shit out of me so I did not make the actual commitment lol.

Anyway, while at beach I went out to water where my feet could barely touch the bottom, I spoke with this woman who I saw swimming around further out. She talked about you can't be scared it shuts off life etc. etc. me and her exchanged numbers so we can swim together so thats cool. (not a dating thing (age, attraction etc.) but even better since it's enriching my life.

What made me come to this realization is I think part of what makes me feel desparate for women (and thus drives me to pmo- a total dysfunctional pattern...) is that thing of needing more in my life, more things I like. If it weren't for my fear and you asked me "would you rather go kitesurfing or be on a date with a girl" I'd be like kitesurfing!!!! There is so much cool shit I want to do, I have to stop being a scared bitch and start doing it. Even spear fishing seems awesome, and i don't know one person who spear fishes who got eaten by a shark.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 27, 2019, 07:44:22 AM
Day 6.
Well happy to be at day 6. But was fantasizing about girls in bed last night AND this morning. It didn't escalate too much but I must be careful and cautious. Today I ought to rededicate myself. I believe I can trace the problem.

1) Been on the phone watching stuff too much (had freaking video paused as I wrote that, just closed it)
2) What works is READING before bed. Leave book out on couch (which is right next to bed) read it, enjoy relax etc. fairly quickly I feel like I will fall asleep, THEN move to the bed (the bed can be triggering) and read some more, normally I want to sleep in minutes, switch of lamp and fall right to sleep.

^ That system works and is crucial. I got a bit overconfident not taking the right steps. Good it did not escalate but... simple commitments for today:
No more internet/ youtube etc.
Read on couch to end day, then in bed until sleep. (No more sex fantasy)

Finally worst case if my head goes to those places, REPORT BACK HERE before it goes further. Sometimes when I make a commitment and break it that leads to just sliding all the way down to lapse/ relapse. So I'll be ready to post here and leave my apartment.

Motivation:
I can fantasize about girls and likely end up relapsing and continue the YEARS of being single and my dick not working. OR I can control myself get through those urges to do so, have more energy, feel better, perform better at work, actually end up REALLY dating girls and have way better workouts.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on September 27, 2019, 07:15:05 PM
Sounds like an awesome day!

Yeah, I remember seeing girls and thinking that I had to look them up and down because I couldn't afford to miss out on seeing their bodies. That is not attraction, that's addiction. Keep it up!

You're also exactly right that fantasizing is a problem that can lead to relapse. Definitely keep away from it, but also don't forget that, on some level, little fantasies will come into your head without your control. So don't get discouraged if they pop in uninvited, just remember that you don't have to dwell on them. Put your attention somewhere else and move on!

And keep movin' on and forward!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 27, 2019, 08:25:54 PM
Thanks man, yup that is it exactly. Yeah for me the fantasy wasn't just popping into  my head, it was getting lost in it for like 30 min plus. That's not good. Something to watch and avoid.

Actually today was a pretty good day, glad to write that because in the moment I was not feeling good but it was a good day. I think honestly I am just very tired mostly and didn't eat often enough... I had one huge meal and one normal meal! That is not at all frequent enough eating.

Feeling better already but was feeling triggered when I came home. I really gotta clean my apartment again, the habits just aren't there I clean and immediately it becomes a disaster again. I've gotta change this.

Today, did some educational stuff for work. Had an unexpected excellent workout, I am getting used to pushing myself harder but it hurts less. Like my I push out like 3 more reps then I would have last week (in terms of difficult, not just fitness) and really it doesn't hurt that bad. That is awesome! When I push safely in the workout I get a nice natural high after.

I went to a cool neighborhood to talk to girls, very few girls were around. But then this girl was sitting at starbucks. It felt really awkward and forced to talk to her, I passed her like twice and didn't (but it was not obvious) then I was like fuck it and did. She was meh friendly and then she was like "hey, weren't you just at the gym?" lol NICE. I went to a different gym today and I guess this girl was there.

She was working, I sat with her. She was getting progressively less interested. What I am proud of is this: I adjusted...

I remembered that horrible date recently, an attractive woman seemed interested so I got fully interested and over invested in the convo. All I did was be nice and show interest over and over, not reading her. She wanted me to push her away. Desire itself, being like "omg this girl is awesome I want her so bad" can be a habit that feels good but is counterproductive.

So anyways, I remembered this. I noticed this girl being not too interested in that " I know he wants me, meh I'll maybe let him talk a bit for now" way. I went to the bathroom and thought to myself "not this shit again". It felt uncomfortable but I decided that I had to push her away and show disinterest.

I come out of the bathroom. "Wow I just realized you're not the girl I thought you were, I thought you were that girl who kept following me in the gym" (said smoother). (Said it kind of dismissive)
Then she said "yeah it's awkward when you are doing the same workouts and it looks like you're following people"
Me "Oh you know a lot about that" -- honestly not even that playful said kind of harsh, this girl showed a lot of disinterest so I pulled out some big guns of disinterest to change the way things were going (at the time me: nice desperate lame-o starting to border on annoying --- Her:  working humoring me/ maybe getting  a little distraction while getting done menial work)
Then I said 2 or 3 other things that kind of pushed her away and showed disinterest on my part. Funny nothing happened, but then on the third time she shifted. She asked me some questions, I asked her questions, was not mean but I mentioned when I didn't like a book she brought up (but didn't make it personal). Then she started talking a lot telling me about herself.
Key in all this. I did not like how she was brushing me off, but I showed no anger. The disinterest comments I said, were not said in an angry/ hurt way. I just said them in a "Hmm you seem kind of lame way". I just matched how she was acting towards me until she changed.

She starts telling me about herself. I was tempted then just talk my ass off, investing in the convo and basically talking my way out of her interest. But I was aware and....I let her talk and talk. I have had occasionally girls talk there ass off about problems, when they are not paying attention to me. They are just enjoying talking and don't give a fuck what I think, so it's a way for them to let off steam. This wasn't that. She was talking opening up because she was now interested and did care what I think. Lo and behold she gently invited me to hang out with her and her friends.

But I didn't stop there. I sat with her, I find having her go WITH YOU somewhere is very helpful. So I took her to see a cool shop across the street before she left. Then when she wanted to leave I was like "Oh you seem like you have to go" and I let her ask for my number. (I am naturally overly reassuring- sometimes girls get a little nervous asking for the number DON"T HELP let her get through it she'll feel like she accomplished getting the number and she had to invest) (these are notes to myself). I let her slightly fumble through that, then got distracted and showed her something else before putting number in lol. (All the shit girls do. Like your getting a girls number and she then doesn't put it right away you're like goddamn it I want the damn number!) Also now it changed she was like
"let's go to beach sometime" (before she was not open to hanging out alone).

I thought about it and essentially the pattern/subtext of the conversation was this.

Her: I am way cooler then you and more important Me: Hey I want to talk to you and am desperate, since even with you treating me this way I want to talk to you. (reinforcing her idea)

Then my shift

Her:  I am way cooler then you and more important Me: Meh I am cool, you don't seem so cool

Her:  I am cooler then you and more important Me: Meh I am cool, you don't seem so cool

Her: I am cooler then you but you are a little interesting. Me: Meh I am cool, you don't seem so cool

Her: Omg you are cooler then me! Let me show you how cool I am! Me: Okay

Her: Omg you are cooler then me! Let me show you how cool I am! Me:.....

Her: Omg you are cooler then me! Let me show you how cool I am! Me: Hmm you're doing well

Her: Omg you are cooler then me! Let me show you how cool I am! Me: I guess your okay ;).

Her: Wow, you are really cool and I think you think I am cool now : ) I am so excited.  Me: You're pretty cool.

Her: Let's hang out!

Ta da! lol.



So I'll see where this goes.

Glad I performed pretty well. It may sound pretty ummm idk cold. But often I have the bad habit of magical thinking when it comes to women. Like "I like her she she'll like me yay!!". It's much better to  be logical. When a girl is not interested, giving her interest makes her more disinterested and even uncomfortable. The only way to "beat" (lol) disinterest is with more disinterest. Plus I am only talking first few minutes, maybe a date or two of interaction. Things can change when we really get to know each other.

I was going to say women are like rock paper scissors. But it's maybe a little more complicated like pokemon lol. Like grass attacks beat water, water beats fire etc.

Female Disinterest is defeated by stronger male disinterest
Female moderate interest is increase by net neutrality. A lil interest mixed with a lil disinterest mixed with a lot of nothing. Also perhaps but subtle/ smooth male interest.
Female extreme interest is converted into success by male escalation. (escalating to dates, increased intimacy (physical or mental) etc.


This was fun , using my mind and awarness rather then emotions. Get's me motivated to recalibrate my ummm dating game and be more aware of it and improve it a bit.

Gonna be prob lazy tonight. But I will commit to you all my tomorrow:
Up by 7
Run in am (by 8:00)
Clean for an hour before 11 am.
Nice : )
Cook at some point that day
Do yoga
(prob meet more girls and journal about it - up the skillset)
Stay clean!!!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 28, 2019, 06:04:50 AM
Day 7 without pmo but Day 1 for pmo fetish fantasy.....

Darn, well I didn't do what I said I was going to do. I went on the phone/ interenet and my habit for that is to turn it off and fantasize about sexual thins before sleeping which this time, led to fantasizing about pmo fetishes. For me I feel the physical response strongly and I sort of consider that a lapse or maybe I should say slip. I am not really totally clear when I do that. Well, all I can do is clean up what I am doing. Clean my apartment. (Blueheron mentioned that, I think the super messy apartment really contributed). Really that is #1. That and not staying in bed after alarm, which luckily I did not do. Got up right away to post.

So I have two clocks for now. Honestly after a few days I may just merge them or reset.

Edit my place is such a mess it looks worse then a mental institution. How did I even manage to make it this messy in a few days? 100% The fantasy is a result of this. The environment is sooo important. The mess led to me not reading, wanting to ignore it and go on phone, it all started with that.

Just made a decision: Organization is going to be a priority. I used to do lots of self improvement type of challenges etc. some have been really good. I am going to make organization  one very soon.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 28, 2019, 09:58:43 AM
So I set aside a good portion of the day to not just clean but change my apartment, I have to create new systems and hopefully make this a nice place I actually enjoy being. My apartment is small but may look into buying a plant or two.

Feeling very tired and moderate urges. Reminding myself, once I start cleaning and organizng, for sure I will have more energy. I have to start moving and the motivation and energy will follow.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Lero on September 28, 2019, 12:49:58 PM
That's good, man. Changes in environment could help. P behavior has a way to activate the brain in the familiar places for PMO. Even if you don't have mood to do something, push through it. Things need to be done. Procrastination is a P feature. It's normal but not a crippling tool. Who knows, you might get the mood while doing it, like eating.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on September 28, 2019, 06:01:04 PM
I was going to say women are like rock paper scissors. But it's maybe a little more complicated like pokemon lol. Like grass attacks beat water, water beats fire etc.

Lol, sounds like playing it cool was super effective. That's a really interesting story. Honestly, I've never approached a girl cold. I have only ever been out with someone that I have known for at least a little while beforehand. In my head, it seems like a thing I should never ever do, but your interaction with her makes it seem really normal and expected. Mostly what I'm getting at is that I even feel strange approaching someone I do know, like I'm inconveniencing her or invading her space or something, but I'm sort of feeling like that's just something I made up. This girl clearly didn't end up having a problem with you, so why should someone I know have a problem with me walking up to them? Thanks for showing me how it's done!

Also way to go on revamping the apartment! I spent some time cleaning the bathroom today. In the past, I usually felt like I had to clean the whole apartment whenever I cleaned, but I have started just cleaning one part of it roughly every week. That seems to make it feel much more manageable (and it helps me build a habit of cleaning, which I really need to do).

Good luck with the rest of the weekend!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 28, 2019, 08:57:37 PM
Thanks Lero! Yeah well said, once I got started moving it felt better and a mess has always been a huge trigger.

Blueheron- thanks for the compliment! lol. With cold approach sometimes the girl is open to it sometimes not, but how you do it and what you expect makes a big difference. I'll try and remember to expand more on this later....


So I focused on organizing apartment for 4 hours today.... A ton of it was planning. It's a much bigger job then expected, but so glad I did the planning. I am really planning it to be great and executing bit by bit on the plans. I have a place for my clothes for the coming day a place for wallet keys, etc. new shoe rack. I am planning to make shelves. Got some candles. I am looking forward to this, bit by bit making a space I really enjoy. Funny... when thinking about having this awesome space I love I didn't even have a desire for women or even company. That's a good thing, I am far too desparate. Plus being happy with myself and my life just makes it 10x easier to meet people...
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 29, 2019, 07:10:38 AM
Day 7 no pmo. Day 2 no pmo/fetish fantasy

Well, I am happy about last night. Not because I was perfect but because I managed to turn things around. I was surfing the internet a bit, but kept it to the couch, not the bed. (most triggering). Then as I got tired, I thought like "shoot, I am feeling some urges". So I switched to reading in bed for just a few  minutes (putting my phone away). Then as I was falling asleep I was tempted to PMO fantasize, but I used some pure willpower not to. Just like "fuck no, I don't want to do that. I know where this leads.... tomorrow posting I pmo fantasied again on the forum and in a day or two definetly all out lapsing" I've seen that cycle before. So I slept, I may have had a few seconds thinking about a girl but that was not too concious. So well done for last night.

This morning could have used a little work/ willpower. I hit snooze and fantasized about girls and sex a decent amount (not all out pmo fantasy). There was nothing stopping me from just getting out of bed and NOT doing that. Best would have been out of bed, 2nd best I could have read my book a bit. So it's time to to keep improving. What really happened was I think I was so happy with how I handled last night I "rewarded" myself in a bad way. I read about this in the book the willpower instinct, people will go to a christmas party avoid temptation and not eat desert pasta whatever isn't on there diet then they go home feeling so good about how they did they reward themselves with a soda. That's what happened, the book said the solution is not to be like "I am so good for abstaining" It is to remember you are abstaining since it's what you WANT to do, it's not a moral thing or a balancing act of good and bad.

Anyways, I feel pretty energetic. Going to do some more organizing of the apartment and planning of it.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 29, 2019, 12:36:41 PM
So, got a little stressed out today. Still aiming to organize apartment etc. but felt disorganized in how I did it today, not getting a ton done. After several hours of going to stores, buying nothing indecision etc. I bought a pretty plant to hang... Then was really tired, uber went to wrong pick up location... all sorts of headache basically.

Finally got home planning to go on the internet etc. I found a temporary way to hang the plant, right over my couch. Man is it beautiful, looking at the plant I was like forget the internet I'll read. I have my vision for my space, nice plants overhanging my couch so I can be reading under them. Anyway's it wasn't efficient but it was a good start and I should hopefully have this plant for years to come, so a few hours isn't all that much time.

Looking forward to getting more of them and continuing to organize.

Edit (like 30 min later): Not feeling too good and triggered again. Want to surf the internet. Feeling bored of book I was reading. Well I have somewhere to go soon anyways. Drank a cup of coffee, again not necessarily ideal but it does make me feel better. Today I really needed to plan better, very inefficient with time.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 29, 2019, 04:48:11 PM
Doing decent, even went pretty well. Still need to work on the apartment and be more organized tomorrow. Looking into taking more natural supplements, to help with my focus attention etc.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on September 29, 2019, 05:57:43 PM
Funny... when thinking about having this awesome space I love I didn't even have a desire for women or even company. That's a good thing, I am far too desparate. Plus being happy with myself and my life just makes it 10x easier to meet people...

So awesome! I definitely believe it's true that you will never be happy in a relationship if you never learn how to be happy alone. Making your apartment more of a "home" is a great way to do that. You're just working on being a super awesome guy, and that will set you up to attract a super awesome woman, all in good time.

Day 7 no pmo. Day 2 no pmo/fetish fantasy

Well, I am happy about last night. Not because I was perfect but because I managed to turn things around. I was surfing the internet a bit, but kept it to the couch, not the bed. (most triggering). Then as I got tired, I thought like "shoot, I am feeling some urges". So I switched to reading in bed for just a few  minutes (putting my phone away). Then as I was falling asleep I was tempted to PMO fantasize, but I used some pure willpower not to. Just like "fuck no, I don't want to do that. I know where this leads.... tomorrow posting I pmo fantasied again on the forum and in a day or two definetly all out lapsing" I've seen that cycle before. So I slept, I may have had a few seconds thinking about a girl but that was not too concious. So well done for last night.

This morning could have used a little work/ willpower. I hit snooze and fantasized about girls and sex a decent amount (not all out pmo fantasy). There was nothing stopping me from just getting out of bed and NOT doing that. Best would have been out of bed, 2nd best I could have read my book a bit. So it's time to to keep improving. What really happened was I think I was so happy with how I handled last night I "rewarded" myself in a bad way. I read about this in the book the willpower instinct, people will go to a christmas party avoid temptation and not eat desert pasta whatever isn't on there diet then they go home feeling so good about how they did they reward themselves with a soda. That's what happened, the book said the solution is not to be like "I am so good for abstaining" It is to remember you are abstaining since it's what you WANT to do, it's not a moral thing or a balancing act of good and bad.

Anyways, I feel pretty energetic. Going to do some more organizing of the apartment and planning of it.

This is also some good reflection. Stop those fantasies in their tracks! I know the experience of "rewarding" yourself with something that isn't actually good. Being aware of it is a huge first step to working on it. Getting out of bed has been a struggle for me this year. A few weeks ago I set a second alarm, not for getting out of bed but for starting my morning workout. Just knowing that I have to get up, brush my teeth, etc. before that second alarm goes off has really helped me to get moving quicker in the morning.

(But also, it's the weekend, so don't get too upset with yourself. Definitely don't let the fantasies stick around, but staying in bed a little later on a Sunday isn't the worst thing...)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: brandnewself on September 29, 2019, 08:22:57 PM
Hey man I read your story with the girl at the bar and it made me smile. I was a little depressed at the moment and somehow your story put a big smile on my face ;D It made me realize sometimes we need to be flexible and sometimes a simple shift on our mentality can make a big difference. It's really cool to see that you could identify the pattern of your interaction with the girl and turn your "desperation" into something different. Please post more, I'd like to read your journal. It's fun haha.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 29, 2019, 09:55:52 PM
Great perspective blueheron. I think it's like that balance of holding self-accountable but not being too hard on self.

Tired and getting a bit of a cold on, sleeping in on a Sunday- Hey no biggie

Fantasy in bed that I know leads to lapses into an addiction that is the largest negative influence on my life- HELL NO.



Hey Brandnewself, really glad to hear that! I really appreciate the kind words. It's great to hear you are enjoying the journal and it's cool knowing someone else is reading the stories and enjoying them gives me extra motivation to go out and make things happen.



Came here to post about having some urges to fantasize and wanted to post to get it together. Really glad I did, the encouragement is awesome. I remember when I fell of the wagon when I had like a probably 60 plus day streak man that sucked... but anyway my huge regret was "If only I had posted on the forum before doing that". So that motivated me to post now, I have had more urges lately and don't want to get stuck in that loop....

A loop of 4-5 solid days, then 2-3 fantasizing then finally lapsing on the 6th-8th day, after going of the wagon, I'd get stuck in that cycle for freaking months. So glad to come here and post instead. So I'll be aware this evening, not feeling great. May watch youtube but gotta be careful....
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 30, 2019, 08:15:25 AM
Day 8 no pmo Day 0 no pmo fantasy :/

Basically pushed HARD to get through the night without fantasy. Then woke up in the middle of the night and fantasized intensely (very bad, about fetishes etc. feeling the addiction thoughts of look at p, mo, and worse). Luckily it did not escalate further, simple due to motivation.

Motivation is working, so perhaps to get even better and cut out this fantasy stuff I need some more motivation. Well, that wasn't the best but I am progressing. Still been on internet a lot gotta cut that.

I need MORE BOOKS. I don't have interesting stuff to read right now, need more to do to distract and perhaps a re introduction of meditation will be very helpful.

 I have a cold, nothing serious just upper respitory stuff.

Action steps:
Make a meditation plan (even if it is just a teeny tiny bit)
Spend ample time at library and stock up on good books and perhaps relevant books about meditation and interior design.
Plan for when waking up in the middle of the night, have a distraction ready
Other stuff (develop stretching program ASAP) (I already have a book about it)
Will create a schedule for my day, in order to get this all done.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: squid on September 30, 2019, 09:30:57 AM
Have you thought about getting a kindle?  One of those ones that os just for books with the eink display.  Then you can get free kindle books from the library and download them conveniently.

Also I do a lot of audiobooks from the library that you can just download through their app.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 30, 2019, 11:29:08 AM
That could be a good idea. I normally prefer paper backs, but having that instant access to something healthy... books is a good idea. The computer is the real bad one, but kindle is ummm "self-contained" books.

I was feeling pretty incredibly awful for the day. Feeling like my new chosen career is a mistake and that it is going to be a total failure. I've been looking at girls bodies a bit and I essentially decided to have a BAD relapse several times. I got home feeling all this stuff 80% I was just going to do my very worst behaviors.

I think a small part of me was like "hey this is that same old cycle". Anyway, I felt super overwhelmed about my apartment being a mess, that was adding to it. So I decided to set a timer for just 5 minutes and clean.

Wow that was really effective. I still feel really bad and have some urges but soo much better.

If out of ten my mood was a 1 before now it's like a 3.5. And if my urge level was a 9.5 now it's like idk a 5. So still feel pretty damn shitty but that was a good lesson I guess. Hopefully can get day on track and do the stuff I wanted to do.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 30, 2019, 11:35:56 AM
Wow! As much as I feel shitty about a lot of things. I have something to be proud off... that urge has totally passed. I almost can't believe it. That's one of the strongest urges I ever beat. Even during my last strong streak I don't think the urges were that strong. Feels good and my energy is up a bit. Made a healthy smoothie with Spinach and going to read a bit, then plan of attack to make the most of this day.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 30, 2019, 01:26:25 PM
Man urges after urges. Not sure what I posted last, was one second away from lapsing picked up phone but then called family instead. Got through it and had some coffee, now on another urge. Mind rationalizing. Too much coffee this time, heart racing a bit. Fuck this kind of sucks.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Chuck Shurley on September 30, 2019, 01:41:43 PM
I've given up caffeine, and it's a killer, for sure.

I'm not sure which other journal I mentioned it in, but I take liquorice (licorice) root capsules to help heal adrenal fatigue syndrome. It calms the body from all the stress it's put under (from life, and fapping).

One of the other things it does is it lowers libido. I have urges, but they're nowhere near as powerful as when I last went on a long streak, and in that streak, I was burning everyday, wanting to fap. Now, it's just tiny blips, easily manageable.

Might be worth looking into a supplement to kill that libido for the time being if it becomes too much for you.

I have a Kindle, and use a site to get my books from without paying (can PM you it if interested).
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 30, 2019, 04:41:43 PM
Thanks man! Sure, checking out that site could be cool.

I'll look into licourice root.
Still not feeling great but improving. Looking into seeing psychologist to get checked out.... Getting over this addiction will help but pretty sure I have ADHD. I always thought it was bs, but I so drastically under performed in school it is unreal. Also been failing at job after job so I think it's time to be open to options.... Gotta quit PMO of course but my issues go beyond just pmo. No biggie or excuses just open to taking say a low dose of ADHD medicine or whatever.

Did some reading of the news paper, that was nice and definitely helped out. Not being productive today, but not going to be mad at myself about it, I can honestly say I have done my absolute best and could have done no better.

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 30, 2019, 04:47:56 PM
Was looking something up about a school now kind of wasting time got to stop. Another urge. This stinks. I am a bit worried because as I am now I simply can not function.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 30, 2019, 06:22:40 PM
Posting my ass off.... but who cares. It's working!

For the first time today I feel really good. This DOES NOT mean get arrogant urges may pop up again but THANK GOD. I got through those urges. I went to the beach, it was really wavy, again I felt like I needed some excitement, these three girls were jumping in the waves having the time of their lives. I went in the water near them (in large part out of fear of sharks lol). One was really attractive and I was attracted to her in a healthier way, not perfect at all but it felt more like real horniness/attraction then psychotic addiction, I actually wanted to get sexual with her and didn't feel a desire for pmo.

It was just super fun, jumping in the waves with these really high energy fun girls. Spent a good 40 min or so, it was really exiting and a little scary (still damn scared of sharks lol) I was a bit of a wimp and made sure to stay in the center of the tree girls so if a shark came it would get to them first lol.

Anyways had a ton of fun. Very un smoothly asked the girl to hang out and she kind of pretended I didn't but oh well it was a ton of fun and I felt like I could have sex with her if given the opportunity NO CHANCE this could have happened if I had lapsed, my emotions would be sooo out of wack and I would be unable to interact normally with an attractive girl, my confidence would have been shit etc.

Had another convo with an attractive girl on way back to my building, now time to get my workout in, feeling much less sick after the salt water, but if I have a shitty workout it's all good, just do what I can.

Excitement really seems to be one of my very best weapons against the addiction. Really gotta keep pushing through fear and enjoying the ocean etc.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on September 30, 2019, 09:21:20 PM
Wow! As much as I feel shitty about a lot of things. I have something to be proud off... that urge has totally passed. I almost can't believe it. That's one of the strongest urges I ever beat. Even during my last strong streak I don't think the urges were that strong. Feels good and my energy is up a bit. Made a healthy smoothie with Spinach and going to read a bit, then plan of attack to make the most of this day.

Making it through a round of intense urges for the first time was a huge turning point for me. Until this year, I always always caved eventually. Then, when I learned that I could actually wait them out and they would go away by themselves, things changed.

Huge congrats for outlasting the urges and for staying engaged in your recovery. You're posting, keeping your head in the game, doing little things like cleaning for 5 minutes. So many good little things that will add up to bigger progress over time.

Have a great tomorrow! Just one more day!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on September 30, 2019, 10:30:36 PM
Thanks bro! I really appreciate, yeah I know what you mean. Don't remember getting through an urge this powerful before. Feeling decent at the moment, going to get through the night 100% clean, looking forward to it. Cutting the fantasy I believe will lead to a muuchhh easier day in terms of urges.

Did my workout much later then usual but it ended up being an amazing workout, my best on my new program, I am getting stronger. I think switching up my diet may have helped.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Lero on October 01, 2019, 07:20:29 AM
Making it through a round of intense urges for the first time was a huge turning point for me. Until this year, I always always caved eventually. Then, when I learned that I could actually wait them out and they would go away by themselves, things changed.

Yes, same for me. This is how I got 40 days some time ago. I used to get hard urges on day 4 and I always relapsed. I thought I couldn't handle it. It was like an urgency: "I gotta relapse now cause I will fucking explode." But then I saw I could face brutal urges that made me understand I could handle more than I thought. Things definitely change in the mind after this. And I didn't relapse because I couldn't handle this. All my relapses came after drinking. I actually can go a lot if I put my mind to it.

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on October 01, 2019, 08:24:37 AM
Day 9 no pmo day 0 no pmo fantasy :/ : /

Well last night was near identical to the previous.... Surfing phone, fell asleep woke up and fantasized, don't even remember starting. In bed this am fantasized about more about girls etc. some of the fantasizing wasn't quite as "intense" or extreme but it was longer.
Still feeling pretty optimistic. I am going to KISS.

Tonight 10:30pm- 11:00 pm- Read interesting biography. Okay that is scheduled in that's my one big commitment.

I love reading but my habits are not what they were, internet pre bed has been. So just focusing for today, read first. An actual plan to break the cycle.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on October 01, 2019, 10:16:45 AM
Just had an urge, good to post. A little bit insidious of an urge, those ones are tough. The emotions not being strong but just lack of awareness. Like "oh how about I just pmo". Before that the initial thought was so bizarre. I am reading this nice book which is good. The author talks about his blind friend and I thought like "man I couldn't imagine being blind?" "how would I read?" "It'd be scary... what would I do?" I guess I would just call escorts all the time...... urge begin. It's like the addiction wanted to find any rationalization for why these behaviors would be okay and that led to an urge.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on October 01, 2019, 11:28:21 AM
Have first day of new (second) job today. Feeling fairly sick and tired. Was having urges, wanted to lay in bed and think about girls sexually to "recharge" what would have happened is I would have thought about girls possibly pmo fetishes almost certainly not slept. Instead I napped on couch quite a bit. Woke up really tired and body feels a bit weak, but I think this rest will pay off once I get moving again. It's a part time job so only a 4 hour shift... I should be okay. I did my run this am, so really if I could do that I can work. Had a great workout last night by the way, run was tough but man I am glad to be progressing on fitness. I think I need to remember to have veggies.... I am eating less empty calories and more protein but gotta remember the veggies and vitamins.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on October 01, 2019, 05:42:36 PM
There isn't a lot of excitement in the daily grind of staying clean, but it's so important. All these little adjustments along the way (like improving your diet) count for a lot.

It sounds like you're being really honest with yourself, too, which is really important. It's so easy to convince ourselves that something triggering is "okay." Stay honest with yourself, and don't let those tricky little urges and rationalizations stick around.

Keep it going!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on October 01, 2019, 05:44:09 PM
Man... another urge. Well thank god I am posting here. Desperation is causing urges. Feeling like I don't have many interests other then girls at the moment, talked to a girl and got turned down, then again and again. Third one got real annoyed and basically "decided" to pmo. Uggghhh. Okay. Just gotta delay a few min then go from there.


Edit: We posted at the same time! Thanks bro! Yes, I all the little things matter. A little confused at the moment, hopefully will write lengthier about my thoughts later on.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on October 01, 2019, 09:52:40 PM
Man. Super strong urges. Consistently feeling on the edge of lapsing for 2 hours or so. Did some intense cardio, that helped.

Man, I might be soooo close to something good happening in my life.... maybe even tomorrow. Lapsing could fuck all that up. Maybe I'll meet my future wife, maybe I'll really get things going again at work, maybe I'll have another great workout.

I need to focus on the future and have hope. Haven't had much site of it. I feel like I have wasted a lot of time and am unhappy with underperforming in life, but still I am only 27, got a solid 2/3rds of my life left.

It'd be really awesome to make a lot of money. Have my own successful business. Have really great connections with real women. Be in great shape and feeling really good. And it'd be great to finally put these pmo fetishes behind me, they've had me feeling so bad so many times.

Alright guys, I am going to get into the nitty gritty of the low point I have been at in terms of this addiction and how this thing plays out.

I think something like I need to feel better or let me just give in to my pmo related fetishes... I'll call an escort and do xyz crazy pmo fetishes with her. I would look them up message them to set up appointments. 100% feeling I was going to meet, then would mo sometimes many times. Man would I feel shitty the next day.

It's so irrational.....

Do I want to do that dumbshit tonight, probably staying up half the night doing it, prolonging being sick, then having tomorrow likely being totally screwed?

I need to develop patience and stop acting so much on my damn emotions. I would like to be dating, but for me I need a rational plan. Like talk to a few girls a day no more no less. Not desperately seeking out a girl in like an hour (so irrational) then being frustrated and triggered. Stay consistent. It is proven if I talk to 5 girls a day (even very short convos asking for the time etc.) within say, two weeks I will have gone on at least a few dates. Keep that up and me and one of those girls'll hit it off. (I know maybe dating shouldn't be number 1 priority but I like this plan and seeing the light and the possibility for success really gonna help me stay off this pmo etc. isolated bullshit).

Anyways, patience patience patience. I have a feeling that tomorrow is going to be a really good day. I also need to look FORWARD only forward. Forward about one day at a time. Can't look at past failure or anything. Thats in the past.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on October 02, 2019, 08:54:04 AM
Day 10  no pmo day 1 no fantasy.

Awesome! I am 99% sure that I didn't fantasize at all last night before falling asleep, I don't remember what happened before I fell asleep, I was reading with a candle I think I just remember blowing it out, next thing I know I am waking up in the morning feeling much better mentally.

I am definitely totally sick but man this addiction I think had almost everything to do with how I was feeling mentally (HORRIBLE). Now I am just like "meh, I feel kind of sick". I actually feel optimistic about the day. Taking it easy not working, because I am legit sick. But I am reminded there is a good amount of cool stuff I'd like to do. And that's key too... stuff I'd LIKE to do.


I saw a few articles about changing your language. Switching out "need to" "have to" to want to ect. stuff like that. So let me get started on it.

A) I want to find my journal or a new one so that I can write in it again.
B)I want to get started on a talk to 5 girls a day PROACTIVE program.  (will expand on)
C) I'd really like to clean up my apartment and organize it.
D) I'd like to have more of a mental workout program going.... I tend to enjoy and feel better when meditating and/or visualizing or even listening to recordings so I'd like to get started on this stuff again.
E) I really really want to have today be totally clean again of all the fantasy stuff.



Expanding:
B (girls) Talking to 5 girls a day may sound like a lot but it isn't really. I set the standard fairly low even 2-3 sentences back and forth counts, it's just getting it done. Sometimes you just end up hitting it off with a girl. This I will enjoy a lot more and get much better results then acting on emotions "Omg I need to date a girl now! I need to go try and meet some" then doing that one day nothing the next, lots of ups and downs. This way, it's just a routine not focused on results. Plus doing this consistently actually ups my confidence and lowers my anxiety, not just with women or dating, but in general.
E) I had some morning wood this morning, I had that in the early days but not since I was fantasizing about fetishes! Aside from all the emotional stuff that tells everything I need to know.... This was so incredibly difficult, very glad I got through it and very confident today will be far easier. Does not mean this'll be easy I still really want to stay vigilant and ready for urges BUT the cycle has been PMO/fetish fantasy for several days, strengthening urges, choosing to give in to the fantasy rather then get through the urges and it strengthening each day until a full on PMO lapse. So, I feel by getting through last night I broke that several day cycle and can now rebuild.


A few notes on last night:
I had to get out of the apartment that helped.
When the urge was very very intense and very much a physical sensation in my body... I luckily have a tiny fitness room in my building. I used one of those low impact cardio machine and went fast for a minute and pushed my self and sprinted for another minute, got a sweat going heart racing tired and everything. That lowered the urge a good bit. So keep that in mind for super strong urges. My theory was, exercise changes brain chemistry physiology etc. So I had this incredible urge and could feel it physically in my body I was like shaky heart racing, tension in throat etc. so I was like okay let's change my body/brain chemistry.

I also earlier in the urge read by candelight and turned off all lightbulbs, that seemed to lower it and I read by candlelight, wow that was relaxing, I also meditated a tiny bit by candleight. It was part of my "make my enviornment nice plan" and boy did it work. I am looking forward to making that a part of my routine from time to time. Laying on the couch reading by candleight under my new beautiful haning plant, wonderful!

I want to focus more like that because in my brain so much of what I do for myself starts turning into for girls. " I want to have lots of plants! I'll love my environment" Turns into throughts like "I bet girls will like this and I'll have a great time with a girl here". Same with the candle. But I decided to push that thought out and just enjoy the solitude. So looking forward to building this stuff up, all these nice actvities. I always knew I liked reading but by candlight with the plants is next level!

As a side note, in case any of you want tot try it, as a safety precaution I bought a little glass dish like thing to put the candle on and a little like centimeter of water in the dish, in case I fall asleep or something with it on (unlikely, but just in case)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on October 02, 2019, 10:50:58 AM
Think I should get out of apartment. There are things I want to do here like plan and clean, but having some urges. So I'll not be so hard on myself if I don't do every last thing I want, may do another alternate healthy activity like, yoga class or may go to the library. One of those two. Maybe yoga, haven't done it in awhile
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on October 02, 2019, 04:47:35 PM
Just kind of checking in. Time to get out of the apartment. Also, stop being a perfectionist. Over thinking things.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on October 02, 2019, 07:01:32 PM
Man, I might be soooo close to something good happening in my life.... maybe even tomorrow. Lapsing could fuck all that up. Maybe I'll meet my future wife, maybe I'll really get things going again at work, maybe I'll have another great workout.

I know this feeling. I don't when the things I want most in life are coming, but I realized that I wasn't living in a way that I would be ready for them when they come. If I'm in the middle of binge/relapse cycle and I meet my future wife, she'll probably just go right on by. A big motivation for me is just making sure I'm ready for stuff when it happens. Who knows if I'm actually ready, but I feel way readier now than I did a year ago. Stick with it: good things are definitely on their way (like you said, we still have a huge majority of our lives left ahead of us)!

Man. Super strong urges. Consistently feeling on the edge of lapsing for 2 hours or so. Did some intense cardio, that helped.

These strong urges were the defining feature of the early days of my latest streak. I had never experienced urges so strong and so constant. Some days, it took all my energy just to get through the day like an unproductive zombie. It took so much concentration and strength to get through the day clean. It's really awesome that you found that cardio helps. Stick with what works. And keep pushing past them. They will pass, and, over time, they will come back weaker and weaker. I still feel urges occasionally,  but they're nothing compared to what I felt early on. In a lot of ways, I feel like getting through these will be like getting through the worst of it. Now is not the time to cave.

You're doing great, and you have good plans. Stay strong and just focus on getting through one more day!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on October 02, 2019, 09:16:42 PM
Thanks bro! You hit the nail on the head about being ready. That's what it's all about doing the stuff we can do to be ready for the opportunities when they come, that is very motivating. Sooo glad I got through last night! Also good perspective on how tough it can be, two days ago was so hard I almost felt entitled to an easy day yestarday and it was muchhhh tougher, I felt the same today entitled to an easy day. Today wasn't anywhere near as tough as those days but I am not entitled to anything..... it's as difficult as it is, I just have to get through it.

Glad to hear you went through the same and it got better, it also gives me perspective, having this addiction really will prevent me from performing at a super high level in any area of my life, so if temporarily I perform kind of shit in other areas, it's okay and still the best for the long term in all areas of my life.....

Also: You guys remember when I had my one lapse and decided just mo with no fetish fantasy is okay, and EVERYONE told me it's not? My dumbass didn't listen lol. Of course that 1000% lead to tons of awful relapses and my addiction clearly got stronger, the intensity and the urges. I can really see the difference, man if I thought urges were strong before...... Oh well lesson learned. Maybe I needed to experience that lesson first hand to really remember it forever.

Feeling pretty good at the moment, talked to 5 girls then talked to more, the more was actually not good as I started feeling desparate. Thats when it gets impulsive, I'll focus more on quality a bit tomorrow, being focused on my conversations connecting better. It felt good during the first 5, I was talking to girls for myself, not because I needed to date that girl now! Looking forward to creating more little goals for myself, I always feel good having this sort of thing, ads extra meaning and direction to life.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on October 03, 2019, 08:16:35 AM
Day 11 no pmo day 2 no fet fant : ) (but still fantasizing about girls too much:/ ).

Imperfect evening, was on internet which kept me up and is triggering plus harms focus. Also was fantasizing about girls a bunch before I went to sleep (conciously) and in the morning. But at least it's progress broke the pmo fetish fantasy cycle. Still could do a lot better. Feeling kind of just meh this morning. Slightly confident slightly nervous more unmotivated. Not that bad all things considered.

Took of sick for a few days and nervous about going back to work, not feeling so confident about new job. Not sure if I want to do it, I go back and forth on it. It's a sales job so only make money if I sell. Has a lot of potential but you have to constantly take phone calls when you are busy and I hate that. I've done that in past, I want to be able to disconnect from technology and be present, this job can have you like constantly taking calls not having separation from work and life. I hate that.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on October 03, 2019, 05:26:17 PM
Thanks bro! You hit the nail on the head about being ready. That's what it's all about doing the stuff we can do to be ready for the opportunities when they come, that is very motivating. Sooo glad I got through last night! Also good perspective on how tough it can be, two days ago was so hard I almost felt entitled to an easy day yestarday and it was muchhhh tougher, I felt the same today entitled to an easy day. Today wasn't anywhere near as tough as those days but I am not entitled to anything..... it's as difficult as it is, I just have to get through it.

Glad to hear you went through the same and it got better, it also gives me perspective, having this addiction really will prevent me from performing at a super high level in any area of my life, so if temporarily I perform kind of shit in other areas, it's okay and still the best for the long term in all areas of my life.....

Also: You guys remember when I had my one lapse and decided just mo with no fetish fantasy is okay, and EVERYONE told me it's not? My dumbass didn't listen lol. Of course that 1000% lead to tons of awful relapses and my addiction clearly got stronger, the intensity and the urges. I can really see the difference, man if I thought urges were strong before...... Oh well lesson learned. Maybe I needed to experience that lesson first hand to really remember it forever.

Feeling pretty good at the moment, talked to 5 girls then talked to more, the more was actually not good as I started feeling desparate. Thats when it gets impulsive, I'll focus more on quality a bit tomorrow, being focused on my conversations connecting better. It felt good during the first 5, I was talking to girls for myself, not because I needed to date that girl now! Looking forward to creating more little goals for myself, I always feel good having this sort of thing, ads extra meaning and direction to life.

Glad to hear you're still going along!

I think it's probably true that we have to experience things ourselves before they really sink in. Would it maybe have been better to just trust the people who said MO was off the table? Maybe, but now you really know it from experience, so now that advice is proven. You don't have to go back now because you know for yourself, and that's pretty powerful. Keep on going!

I also think a bigger focus on quality conversations is huge. Sure, you can just rack up conversations with girls and check the box,  but what's the goal? Talking to lots of girls or working on building the foundation for a meaningful connection? Slowing down and taking quality over quantity sounds like a great way to go.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on October 03, 2019, 06:00:15 PM
Yeah, for me 5, may sound like a big number, but maybe only 2 turn into conversations... so that'd mean like two conversations a day maybe every few days one gets deep, but thats the aim.
More urges, wanted to write I am surprised but why should I be? That's just how it goes. Ate healthy but perhaps over ate, honsestly I want to eat more though....

I'd like to grab books from library and read the paper there, only an hour left. Laundry I'd like to have done today as well, really low in clothes. Hmm
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on October 03, 2019, 09:50:08 PM
Just after my last post I fetish fantasized vividly and consciously but for literally perhaps 10 seconds total. Not even sure what stopped me (normally it goes on for literally hours) but nice I did.

Did my 5 convos with girls, prob did a few more then that on way home, ended up hanging out with a girl a bit, it was pretty nice. She is leaving tomorrow and then she turned down hanging out more, it was kind of sad when it ended but nice closure. Talked to another girl on way home. I had a bit of an urge as I entered my building but realizing how close I was to developing relationships with real women was very motivating....

This girl who physically I found quite attractive, I went up to talk to her, she was friendly and smiling pretty much right away. We talked, I got her to come look at this art gallery nearby, we talked on the way over, then I took her to a bookstore on the way to a nice view. I had a good time, but I was aware of trying not to invest too much, let her kind of chase me.

She had to leave to buy a phone. I was going to get an uber home, she was near me as I waited but kept being uniterested in my suggestions to hang out more, I then was like okay well, you have to get the phone..... and repeated that a few times and she left. We clearly enjoyed each others company and I was sad when she left....

My uber never came lol. And coincidentally the apple store was closed (she said). She came to find me. I was really happy to see her. I showed more interest now and told her I was sad she left. Then she seemed to become like 50% less interested on the spot lol. ( I thought her coming back meant we'd spend more time together I liked her too). Anyway we shared an uber and then after she basically was totally not down to do anything with me in terms of hanging out and she lost most interest.
Lesson there..... when I conciously let her invest in the conversation, she liked me, when I pushed her away at the end she came back,, then when I let my desire out and let her know I wanted her..... all interest gone lol.


Honestly..... I have had only a few real girlfriends.... BUT in the early stages I was 100% calculated. ( Edit: Not at all 100% calculated, I was mostly just enjoying our time but I very CONSCIOUSLY did things that I was not feeling at the time, showing disinterest when I was highly interest for example.)  It may not be the mainstream thing, like you have to be genuine to get a girl kind of deal but NOPE. My two real relationships and best girlfriends, were very hard to seduce and involved lots of me being tactical and purposely pushing them away a bit, showing disinterest at the right times etc. But then once our relationship solidified it was awesome and that was mostly unnecessary. Looking back, lately I have not done this with women, not gotten results and I know 100% had I not done that, the two girls I had real loving relationships with.... never would have been my girlfriends.


My first ever girlfriend, when I started talking to her, she was very cold and showing disinterest, I had been taught if she shows disinterest you show it, I acted super uninterested (I am cool, you're not cool vibe). Then was pretty douchey about inviting her to hang out. We hung out several times, then she was admit we'd just be friends, I kept trying then.... told her she was not my type, next time we hung out I showed zero romantic intent, at the end of it we just started making out.... and she became my girl friend. Manipulative? Maybe. But it was both of our best relationship and sexual experiences by miles at that point and we stayed in touch for years.

Good lesson for me, you can't just act on emotion, enjoy yourself and like the girl but use logic and willpower to control your actions in order to properly seduce a woman. Women NEED to chase a man to a certain extent. Especially now a days with social media, they get literally 100s of compliment messages a day, it means nothing to them, unless that guy is already her beloved respected boyfriend. So IMO I gotta be smart, seduce the girl properly get to that point then as her repested boyfriend she loves many girls will enjoy being desired by me.

Now this is by no means all or nothing. Well timed compliments can be great. I just have a very very friendly warm "I like you!" personality and demeanour in general and I really like women and get very attracted easily. So maybe it's all a balance... but for myself I am so far toward the "I like you" side of the scale to successfully seduce women all I need to do is focus on the push her away/ let her chase side of things as much as possible.


I love you! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D 8) ::) 8) 8) 8) :( :( :( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(.I hate you get away!
                  Me^                                   Ideal range ^              Offensive/scary
                                                           to incite female desire

So for me anything that moves me toward the right side of the scale improves my reactions from women. Done with social intelligence and low effort. It's not about insulting the girl just strategic shows of DISINTEREST. Disinterest not dislike.             
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on October 03, 2019, 10:04:17 PM
I reread my post and it has my excited, I had a nice pmo free streak going then and connecting with real women was sooo nice. And the way to do that for me has been to be in control of my sexuality and emotions.... don't go running around "omg I want something, I want a girl!". Be strategic and enjoy the process, the process of seduction inciting desire in the girl making HER excited about it, rather then chasing her to get her. Then it was so nice when we finally became intimate, it's not just the physical it's this cool process of things building and excitment.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on October 04, 2019, 08:55:29 AM
Day 12 no pmo. Day 0 no fetish fantasy.

I want to get mad at myself, but I guess that won't help anything. I am taking the same actions pretty consistently.... surfing interenet, then fantasizing about pmo fetishes. Yestarday I just like felt like it was okay. I am getting complacent, I am forgetting how bad this fantasy is. The fantasy DOES increase my PIED. When I fantasize my dick does not work afterward. It's like watching porn just not as intense, but it keeps those fetishes and nueral pathways very much alive, and I'll never beat this if I don't cut that fantasy.

It's an excuse but being sick is not helping at all.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on October 04, 2019, 12:14:15 PM
So, I talked to my first girl today, it didn't go too well. I said something friendly to her and she literally started yelling "I am so angry right now!" and all this shit. I guess she was saying she was mad at someone else but it was pretty rude and I got pretty annoyed. She was from some eastern European country. I am still pretty mad, but cool that it didn't create an urge in me.

1) This stuff happens, I have talked to maybe 16 girls in the last two days or more.... one of them was super rude angry and nasty. That's how things are, I work in sales too. You get good and bad, it's just statistics.
2) I'd like to get less annoyed in the future. What if I can simply take things less seriously? See her like a silly child? Be as unaffected by others anger and rudeness as possible? ( I was going to write "totally unaffected" but that's an unrealistic expectation imo) but I could certainly aim to change my perspective and handle this stuff better as much as possible.

I had a landlord, this really old lady. Who would yell and go on these rants. But I found it funny, I'd just let her yell herself out about whatever nonsense, then we'd have a nice conversation and she was nice. She was just a cranky a little cookie old lady. It didn't affect me at all. Plus I got a great deal on rent because 90% of people didn't want to deal with her, so it was under market rate lol. I'd like to aim to use that model to apply to more people.

Angry= Don't take people seriously, they are a bit of a joke. I am no ghandi, this is also kind of a good way to "get back at them" rather then me being all annoyed, which kind of gives them power. Me losing respect for them and not taking them seriously actually punishes them and they lose something for acting that way.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on October 04, 2019, 06:39:58 PM
Just tried to visualize and suddenly I got an incredibly strong urge. Like insane, a split second away to impulsively full on relapsing.

Okay, I already know this lesson. Meditation and visualization are great for me, but when done in the evening they often lead to urges and fetish fantasies popping into my head. When they don't it's often still not a quality visualization/meditation. Oh well, can restart that those habits tomorrow.

Man this urge is still incredibly strong, like holy shit. It was like I just decided to relapse 100%, the key I think is not trying to change the urge, just the action. It's still here and even as I posted I felt like I 100% WANTED to relapse no thought of even not doing it, but I was just like.... "okay I'll post first".

I am still kind of in that mindset, but a small part of me (the real part I think) is like "man.... I have been having better and better conversations with girls and even had a sort of mini date yestarday I literally am really close to connecting with women getting dates etc. possibly days away...... lapsing would kill that. It's like a self-sabotage.

Even writing that, the addiction in my brain still feels like I want to lapse. So I think all I can do is tell myself "wait 15 minutes" or maybe get work done first. And during that time let the mood change/ urge pass.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on October 04, 2019, 07:54:43 PM
You know, man, it's really awesome to see how conscious you have been about your thoughts/feelings/experiences. You're definitely not going through this part of your recovery journey on autopilot, and I think that will make a huge difference in the long run. You're tuned in, and it's paying off. Way to go on 12 days!

I'm also still just totally impressed by your talk to 5 girls goal. I feel like talking to 5 girls in a month would be incredible for me, lol, so you're really getting out there. And the fact that you're just making it a practice and not getting too invested in any one person is also good. Focus on the connection and see what happens.

There's probably a lot more I could/should comment on, but I mostly just want to congratulate you for staying committed to paying attention and using your journal as a place to check in regularly. Becoming more deliberate about your thoughts and attitudes will pay off (and already is if you found your fantasy fizzling out after a few seconds).

Keep it going!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on October 05, 2019, 07:07:06 AM
Shoot. Lapsed. Not sure exactly how to quantify it. Googled grey area stuff, tons of fantasy and watched some porn, but did not masturbate. Slept about 2 hours, shit
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on October 05, 2019, 08:13:44 PM
Darn. Sorry to hear it.

That grey area stuff is super tricky. It might seem like a bummer that you're resetting, but I think it shows your commitment to doing it right. (It might be a relapse, but it's not a disastrous relapse.)

Take some time to reflect on what went wrong, learn from your mistake, and make a new plan for moving forward. Make as many mistakes as you need to along the way as long as you only make each mistake once.

Tomorrow's a new day! Get some sleep and know that I'm still rooting for you!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on October 07, 2019, 07:53:16 AM
Thanks man really appreciate the support.

Well, I took away the grey area and full on relapsed....

Well, the thing I learned is that this stuff really is internal. I basically decided to relapse, then I got home and saw on my phone I was invited to have dinner with friends, I thought awesome! But then soon after I got back I relapsed... it's like once the decision is made it was done.

I mo'd once more this morning.

I need to reflect a bit, in this current streak I was constantly thinking "I am going to do it" like I wasn't fully decided on quitting. Need to do more reflecting on how this is harming my life.

I also may need to change up my life a bit, I moved away from family about 8 months ago and if I am honest it has gone very badly, this has been worse, my habits haven't been good. Optimism is good, but perhaps if I see my change in lifestyle has led to increased difficulty I should take that into account
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on October 07, 2019, 09:09:00 PM
The grey areas usually lead to a full relapse in my experience. Sorry to hear it happened, but it's all part of the process.

I definitely think some good reflection is the way to go. Think about what's really causing the relapses (what kind of pain are you trying to escape from?) and what kinds of triggers you are most vulnerable to.

It really is internal. Once you decide to relapse, it can be really hard not to. I know I have said before (maybe not here to you) that I always used to have a plan for my next relapse. After I got back on my feet, I almost always had a thing or two that I "forgot" to look up and had to see the next time I lapsed. Sure enough, those were always the first things I would type in whenever I binged: I could have seen the lapse coming from a mile away, but I always convinced myself that I was "on track."

I don't have a plan for my next relapse now, but it took me a long time to catch that pattern and give it up. Even if you're doing everything right, healing takes time. It's not just about doing the right things. You also just have to give it time.

Tomorrow's a new day. Give yourself the gift of some honest reflection and solid commitment. You're not the enemy of your own progress. You just need to learn a better way to take care of yourself.

Onward and upward!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on October 09, 2019, 08:55:06 PM
Thanks bro! Funny my fantasizing definitely is "planning" for the next relapse, in addition to other things.

Day 2.

Started meditating again. I think this needs to be a PRIORITY. Odd how one forgets things, nearly all of my long streaks have had Meditation as the common thread. It's very important and not an option for me. Other things I "feel" more, like goal setting etc. I can feel very good and excited. Sometimes I don't like meditating sometimes I don't notice a difference, but it seems to control my downside, it gives me that extra 5% impulse control which is often the difference between lapsing and not.

Sometimes it's far cooler then that and I feel calmer and can enjoy things more. Just trying to stress, for myself, even when I feel like my meditation is going through a bad period and "not doing anything" it certainly is doing something even if I can't feel it.

Fairly good day today. Seeing psychologist tomorrow to get checked out... 
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on October 10, 2019, 05:26:49 PM
Good stuff. Meditation has been huge for me. I've been at it pretty close to daily for a few years, but it's just in the last several months that it has really become a powerful tool for me. It takes time.

Plus, I have really appreciated the way people talk about meditation as a practice. I don't have to "meditate" every day: I just have to "practice meditating" every day. Thinking about it as practice takes the pressure off and reminds me that, in meditation and other things, I don't have to do something perfectly every time for it to be worth doing. Just getting in the time to practice is valuable and will make me better and better at it over time.

So just keep practicing! And good luck with your psychologist. I hope you get some good support there!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on October 20, 2019, 09:04:26 PM
Once not posting for awhile it's odd how I'll keep putting it off. My computer is having major issues right now so just want to get back on here, first post is the toughest.

Some major life changes I am making soon, which I think'll be good.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on October 21, 2019, 09:15:43 PM
I know the feeling. I used to be really good about writing in my own personal journal, but then I missed a few days that turned into a month or two and it has been really hard to get back into the habit.

It all starts with a first step (even if it's a first step back after a while). Congratulations for taking it and for making some plans for further positive changes! Keep it going!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on October 22, 2019, 06:34:35 AM
Thanks man! Always appreciate your continued support


Doing fairly well. Making a few small changes.

- Bought stuff to make smoothies. (To eat more vitamins)
- Have a bit of a super simple evening routine, that I enjoy.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on October 22, 2019, 07:11:05 PM
You're welcome! I appreciate yours too!

I am all for simple evening routines. I have started to develop one of putting away screens and just sitting in my room and reading with one lamp turned on. Sometimes I'm out late or can't get away from screens at night, so I can't always do the routine the way I want. But I feel like I sleep better when it works out, and I'm convinced that good sleep is an important part of recovery.

Small changes and healthy habits are the stuff recovery is made of! Keep it going!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on October 25, 2019, 09:34:36 AM
For sure man! I really appreciate your perspective... even just in the attitude of like "I can't always do it". I have the tendency to be all or nothing. Like I must do a given routine everyday and if I don't do it for a day, I basically give it up.

I didn't do the routine perfectly yesterday but  have plans to do it today!

Mine, is similar. Luckily in my current building there is a library type of room. Almost no one uses it. So I read in there before bed. Then to sleep aiming to think about what went well in the day, that routine excites me hopefully making it a habit to think before bed about what went well, and what I am grateful for.


Focusing more on eating healthy. I have consistently been focused on me diet, but often in a way that is more about performance in sports and body composition, eating a lot of protein eating less carbs etc. But neglecting thinking about actual health. Eating veggies etc. Been having a simple smoothie with quality orange juice, spinach, carrots and a tiny bit of cucumber and celery  and taking fish oil the last few days, I think I feel a difference, the smoothie seems to give a nearly immediate mood boost.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on October 26, 2019, 09:27:08 AM
Feeling pretty good.

So, here's where I am at basically.

I ended up being prescribed ADHD medicine.  The doctor wanted to give me this long acting stuff, but I asked for something weaker. I got a pretty low dose and it was still pretty strong and made me emotional. I stopped then started taking half a pill. So I am taking a dose of it that is usually considered too low for young children (although I am in the camp that no way young kids should be given this stuff).

Anyways, I have been doing this for like a week or so and I have to admit.... life seems easier overall. I don't really feel much of an effect   of it, I felt no urges for awhile, then had some the last few days, but they are much weaker, it seems.

At my new job (you guys notice a pattern that I constantly have new jobs?) I am doing very well. I am worrying less. Basically every problem I have seems to be milder then it was before.

Part of me doesn't want to take medicine and I am worried that I'll "get addicted to it". Then I think like "oh maybe it's just because of the pmo addiction when I reboot I'll be better" etc. But I am not sure if that's the case. I see minimal negative effects, really it's just kind of like it feels too easy. I have come up with so many routines and practices working at them for months at a time and usually wasn't able to get quite the results like this.

I was in the "ADHD is bullshit camp" forever (always knew I'd be diagnosed with it if I described how I am but thought screw that bs) but perhaps it's real. I massively under performed in school, partially because sitting down for hours was literally painful. Plus honestly my sexual problems started before porn.....

I used to masturbate over and over until it started to hurt when I was a kid before I had any idea what porn was. Always had binge eating problems etc. Get addicted to anything. So perhaps in my case there has been an underlying issue.

The meds seem to:
Pro:
Give me less desire to do bad things. (surf the internet, pmo etc.)
Lower my cravings and obsession with girls
Make organization 100x easier
Make me feel calmer
Not getting super strong emotions where I sort of fly of the handle
Did yoga on them yesterday and my focus was crazy I really loved yoga (which sometimes I would get antsy and hate)
Have me feeling calmer
Are not so strong that I feel very "different" (except when focusing on a task, then I am like a machine sometimes... time flys
I am a bit less jumpy


Cons
It is short acting ( I wanted the weakest stuff, the long acting stuff is strong), so I think I feel a bit tired when it wears off
I have to take it a few times a day.
I am worried, what if I need more and more, what if I get addicted?
Mentally I just kind of feel like "If I accomplish things on meds, or people like me it doesn't count" it's cheating or not really me or something.
The last few days I think "I don't want to take it" then wait a for hours and take it.
I worry that I can't do things without it.

Open to thoughts/ feedback
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on October 26, 2019, 07:23:53 PM
Hey, man, sounds like things are going pretty well! I think putting a bigger focus on just eating healthy (instead of achieving some performance goal) is a good way to go. If you are eating a healthy, balanced diet, you'll get where you need to be.

As for the medication, I am definitely not a qualified person to say much about it, but I will say that I don't think there's anything wrong with taking medicine to improve your quality of life, whether that's physical health or mental health. And I understand your worry about addiction, but (again, not an expert) I don't know if that's a risk in this case. Addiction is a cycle of exploiting brain chemistry for pleasure in order to cope with trauma, and it leads to craving that overrides judgment, which leads to bad decisions that harm your quality of life. I guess what I'm saying is that I take allergy medicine almost every day because I'm not at my best if I don't. It's not addictive: I never crave it, and my desire to have it never gets in the way of living my life. It's just a medicine that makes it easier for me to breathe during the day and not sneeze as much. Is ADHD medicine any different? If it helps regulate the system, there's no shame in that. And if it's not actually habit-forming, there's no risk of addiction. Sometimes people just have to take medicine, whether it's for allergies or ADHD.

Just my two cents (or maybe less). It sounds like you're doing pretty well and like the medicine is helping, even at a really low dose. That all sounds like progress to me. Keep it going!

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on October 31, 2019, 11:30:26 AM
Hey, guys still me. Now with a two at the end of my name lol. Old computer broke I do not remember the password I had nor for the email I used to create my account.

Great way to look at it man! Thanks for the support and perspective. Things going pretty good on my end. Focusing more on doing good and living well rather then avoiding the bad is SO key.

Unfortunately ADHD meds are super habit forming and addictive, so one has to be careful. You guys know Adderal how it's always in the news for people being addicted to it? That's an ADHD medicine. I have 10 mg pills of ritalin and have been taking mostly half pills ( 5mg) which is what they usually start kids off at. Still, the come off has gotten worse and it seems to be boosting my focus less. ADHD meds are different from say, antidepressants. You don't take them and let them build up over time. They are basically like caffeine, you take it, it works and it wears off. Maybe a bit stays in your system after. They are stimulants just like caffeine but stronger and feel a bit different.

Anyways, basically for now I am thinking to just use them as works for me. The side effects have been not so good lately, and I seem to need more to feel the positives and have more negatives so going to take a few days off.

BUT, I am not going to be all or nothing. I think taking these meds was super super useful. I think I may need to just let my body get re sensitized to them for a few days.

So, these meds are clearly drugs. Like coming off of it, my head would get all hot and I was feeling slightly shaky and sometimes very very tired, but with all those bad feelings I wouldn't have any urges to pmo at all. Having small amounts of caffeine (Tea) a little while before it was going to wear off helped the come off a good amount.

So for now, a few days off of the meds. After that will probably use them a bit, and can be open to other medicine options in the future.

I am also putting a lot more into all those little healthy things. Yoga. COLD SHOWERS- Read about them in the YBOP book. Holy shit it's like magic. I do a 30 second cold shower, my body feels better and without fail I fail calm yet awake and happy. I imagine it is boosting dopamine (in a healthy way).

Taking the ritalin and reading the YBOP book has me thinking a lot more about brain/body chemistry, doing all these little things to keep mine healthy and even. Cold showers, drinking chamamile tea (really helps with inflammation). Taking b vitamins in am (focus/energy) and zinc and magnesium at night (sleep well). Really enjoying this focus on all the small things and just taking care of my body and myself, rather then just trying to get muscular or athletic or whatever. I beat up my body so long doing that feels really good to just totally focus on taking care of it.

Not keeping a day count by the way, all my longest periods I had an idea of roughly how long it'd been. But I just seem to do much much better without a day count. I like it, (for myself) just focusing on healthy habits not even thinking about the bs.

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on October 31, 2019, 11:32:07 AM
Hey, guys still me. Now with a two at the end of my name lol. Old computer broke I do not remember the password I had nor for the email I used to create my account.

Great way to look at it man! Thanks for the support and perspective. Things going pretty good on my end. Focusing more on doing good and living well rather then avoiding the bad is SO key.

Unfortunately ADHD meds are super habit forming and addictive, so one has to be careful. You guys know Adderal how it's always in the news for people being addicted to it? That's an ADHD medicine. I have 10 mg pills of ritalin and have been taking mostly half pills ( 5mg) which is what they usually start kids off at. Still, the come off has gotten worse and it seems to be boosting my focus less. ADHD meds are different from say, antidepressants. You don't take them and let them build up over time. They are basically like caffeine, you take it, it works and it wears off. Maybe a bit stays in your system after. They are stimulants just like caffeine but stronger and feel a bit different. (If you have ADHD tendencys caffeine/stimulants actually makes you calmer not like Tweek from south park lol)

Anyways, basically for now I am thinking to just use them as works for me. The side effects have been not so good lately, and I seem to need more to feel the positives and have more negatives so going to take a few days off.

BUT, I am not going to be all or nothing. I think taking these meds was super super useful. I think I may need to just let my body get re sensitized to them for a few days.

So, these meds are clearly drugs. Like coming off of it, my head would get all hot and I was feeling slightly shaky and sometimes very very tired, but with all those bad feelings I wouldn't have any urges to pmo at all. Having small amounts of caffeine (Tea) a little while before it was going to wear off helped the come off a good amount.

So for now, a few days off of the meds. After that will probably use them a bit, and can be open to other medicine options in the future.

I am also putting a lot more into all those little healthy things. Yoga. COLD SHOWERS- Read about them in the YBOP book. Holy shit it's like magic. I do a 30 second cold shower, my body feels better and without fail I fail calm yet awake and happy. I imagine it is boosting dopamine (in a healthy way).

Taking the ritalin and reading the YBOP book has me thinking a lot more about brain/body chemistry, doing all these little things to keep mine healthy and even. Cold showers, drinking chamamile tea (really helps with inflammation). Taking b vitamins in am (focus/energy) and zinc and magnesium at night (sleep well). Really enjoying this focus on all the small things and just taking care of my body and myself, rather then just trying to get muscular or athletic or whatever. I beat up my body so long doing that feels really good to just totally focus on taking care of it.

Not keeping a day count by the way, all my longest periods I had an idea of roughly how long it'd been. But I just seem to do much much better without a day count. I like it, (for myself) just focusing on healthy habits not even thinking about the bs.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on October 31, 2019, 08:56:09 PM
Good stuff man! (Welcome back, lol)

You definitely know more about your medications than I do, and I think your plan sounds reasonable. You have to do what works and take care of yourself. I think I was thinking of antidepressants, but I didn't know that ADHD drugs work differently (it makes sense that they would, but I didn't think of it lol).

I think it's awesome that you're focusing on the little things to build a healthier life. The little things matter, probably more than the big things. When I moved my focus from big PMO relapses to the little triggers and urges, then I the big things have sort of taken care of themselves. Stick to the little stuff, and they'll set you up to deal with the big things much better. Plus, your putting your attention and effort into accomplishing good things instead of avoiding bad things, which will fill your life up with positivity.

Keep it up!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 01, 2019, 10:00:56 PM
Lol yeah, I thought that too, I assumed all medications were like that. ADHD meds are strong stuff lol.

Man great point about the little things. That's what I have been doing lately and a huge difference. Doing all the little things, like you mentioned and the bigger problems just don't show up as often.

Big win yesterday. Where I am living now, there is a huge street party on Halloween. This is a party city, it's hard to describe how triggering this environment would be. Like the nonsense in the computer come to life. I FELT desperate to go, I felt like missing it would be the worst thing in the world, really cause the addicted part of me just wanted to look at all the triggers. But I knew what would happen. I'd get these desperate feelings, and get unbelievable urges. The best case scenario would be I'd get through that sort of urge by not sleeping for the entire night.

Instead I thought "What would going to this event get me in the long term? - Continued addiction. -Excruciating urges later. -Feeling lonely.

Not going= difficult but would lead to a hell of a sense of accomplishment, future relationship, continued progress and feeling better as I have been.

There was rationalization "I'll just go to the book store on that road and not look at anyone". But I made the right decision, don't step foot in that area other than the very edge of it to go to the movies..... I saw the joker movie as a reward to myself. (skip this trigger fest and enjoy a movie instead) not the most wholesome movie but certainly a distraction and  FAR FAR from triggering ( a crazy guy in makeup laughing like a maniac and killing people) luckily my PMO fetishes did not escalate that far; not very attractive to me lol

Felt damn good in the morning. Handled the problem early, just like "aww man I want to go" with a weak urge rather then rationalizing arrogance "I can handle it" just because I wanted to go and get dopamine hits. Which would have led to insane urges or worse
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on November 02, 2019, 06:47:21 PM
Wow, that really is a big win!

Going to see all the triggers would probably be easy to justify in a lot of ways, you're just going to bookstore, it doesn't count because it's "real," etc. But you did a great job of talking yourself down, changing plans, and doing something that was totally different and even pleasant (because it's important to make good choices a reward in some way).

One time, I heard someone say something along the lines of, "If you think it will never happen to you, it probably will. If you think it might, it probably won't." He wasn't talking about triggers and relapse, but I think it applies to this situation too. Way to keep yourself grounded and not try to think you could handle it. The moment we think we're immune is the moment we're done.

Keep up the great work!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 05, 2019, 08:46:01 AM
Thanks bro!

That is a really great quote. It really sums up the situation and is something important to remember for the future. That's exactly how it was.... In the past, I'd have rationalized going thinking it's fine. But I knew it was NOT fine, didn't go and it saved me a ton of grief. Wow. Thinking about it now, this is a bigger win then I even thought. Because, it's also about having faith in the future and developing patience.

Why do I need to go look at all the girls or irrationally have to chase all the girls that night, when I know in the future I'll end up with an awesome girl anyway. Plus patience...I can wait for good shit in the future, by doing the right actions now.

That's huge for me, impatience, wanting it right now has really messed with my life.




Last few days have been pretty good. A big win was a date on Sunday (tho it won't go anywhere, but still a huge win, I'll explain). First I'll talk about yesterday then the date on Sunday.

Yesterday, work was uneventful. I went home to watch "1" Video on youtube and it ended up being like 3+ hours. Ugghh. Well lesson relearned, thats why I cut it out in the first place. I was disappointed for the lost time, but pulled it together and spent about on hour with a friend and still got my meditation done.

Commitment this week: (Today to Monday) No internet use except for utility. No youtube. No videos. NONE.
Was thinking about girls in bed last night and this am. Gave me a few lil urges, catching that shit.
Often that would lead me down a bad path.

I am now using PEDs for my reboot lol. I took half a ritalin this morning and that massively weakened that growing urge and being lost in fantasy world. It almost feels like cheating, but honestly fuck it lol there are no rules and the only thing I am competing against is the addiction.

The ritalin seems to possibly cause some anger/emotional issues as a side effect, so I am using it sparingly.

I have all these great, fun and educational/inspiring books I want to read and keep putting it off. So I commited 3 hours of today to reading. That'll be great. Reading that much will really rebalance the hell out of my mind and can literally change me for months, it's an opportunity for lots of new perspectives.


On to the date on Sunday:

Background: I have not been pursuing women at all, for me this is good. As I'd sometimes make pursuing women a priority in a desperate way, with little chance of success and it was massively triggering and often almost compulsive/impulsive rather then effective. "I have to go meet a girl NOW!" (Like that'd ever work). I have been thinking a lot about how to handle things with girls and came up with some new philosophy's to make things easier and more comfortable for all involved.

Also visualization is the bomb. I visualize a bunch of things, one of them lately has been (non seuxally) imagining really attractive  and nice women really liking me and wanting to date me. In a realistic vivid ( NOT PORNey or wild fantasy way). Just non sexually really attractive women wanting to talk to me, wanting to date me etc. Also been visualizing a great relationship (minus the sex part/ triggers) Careful if anyone trys this, it could be a slippery slope for most.

This shit works for me. I guess girls pick up on whats going on in my subconcious a bit because I notice women are friendlier when I do this, maybe more importantly I don't really care if girls like me or not, because now in an almost instinctive level I just "know" I am desirable to women and will end up with great ones.

Anyway. I was walking back from several health food stores (taking care of myself!) This girl I was attracted to was a dressed a little oddly and had a like crystal butterfly on her forehead (???). I told her I liked it.

She was with some other girl who seemed a bit odd. I was slightly weary (good! Rather then desperate for any girl), it turned out that the butterfly was from her holloween costume. The weird girl also had just met her.

As the weird girl was talking I thought to myself "hmmm, this girl is hanging out with strange people, she might be strange, i don't know if I want her in my life at all". (This is cool.... having standards FOR REAL). Oddly it's like the girl could read my thoughts as she turned and looked right at me with great interest, just as I thought that. I was like Okay, I"ll be patient see where this goes.

The girl ended up being cooler then expected (prob not girlfriend material though). She suggested we hang out. She came with me to the library to pick up a book and to drop my groceries off. It turns out she was staying at a really fancy hotel like across the street from me. We went to the rooftop and she ate.

Spoiler: Nothing sexual happened! But the big win for me is....

We just had a great time, we were on this comfortable couch and she layed down on it and I touched her in very small amounts I turned away at key moments etc.

It turned out she was leaving the next am. Her friend was staying with her and came and ate with us. Really the big wins for me were how I acted.

In the past I would have tried to "make something happen" even with little chance of it happening. This time I didn't give a shit!

I had not yet done my meditation and visualization, so I acted like Awesome Dan and Blueheronfan and left the girls to go do it lol. (part of why posting/ reading here can be awesome) that shit was so fresh in my mind as I literally read about/ posted about it THAT morning. Talk about the right information at the right time)

Got the girls number and genuinely didn't give a shit if I got to meet back up with them that night. Now the girl is traveling around and I may never see her again I am totally cool with that.

The huge wins were:
I was super confident and this girl was chasing/ initiating with me (just as I planned). The girl was very attractive.
My visualization is clearly working.

I implemented the new strategy I have with girls..... essentially do less. Even if she wants to kiss, for example, I don't have to! Rather then pushing for something, literally always do LESS than she is comfortable with. Not what she is comfortable with, LESS. This made us both super comfortable and again, I am not the dali lama, I actually love that the girl wants more and is kind of chasing me. It's the bomb. Plus it is in part about self control which obviously I want.

Rather then taking a risk trying to make something happen that was unlikely. I did the right stuff. I had a great time, didn't push things at all and left to keep doing the shit that, in part, helped get me there meditation and visualization.

The way I acted is exactly how I want to act and feel etc. no desparation, not trigger myself with desparation. And this moving slow "letting the girl like me" letting her come to me. Is the exact behavior that would result in an excellent relationship for me. Plus I love this faith I am having in myself, like I don't feel I need to do much, the girl'll just like me and I know it. (visuazliation is bomb for confidence, I used it for confidence in sports in the past. It works)

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on November 05, 2019, 07:58:16 PM
Wow, that's another great story! Way to go, man! Awesome Dans unite (lol)!

There really is a lot to celebrate here. Having standards instead of being desperate for anyone. Holding back instead of trying to force things. Being open to seeing what happens with people without getting too invested in a specific outcome. Most of all, having the confidence that you'll end up with a super awesome girl eventually, so why add layers of stress to your life in the meantime? Really great perspective (that I have been trying to adopt for myself too).

Not only does it sound like you handled that whole situation well, but you're also doing good things in other area of your life. Controlling your technology, read, etc. Your recovery isn't just theoretical. It's something you're really doing, and that's so awesome.

Keep killing it!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 06, 2019, 04:38:52 PM
Thanks Bro!

Yesterday I did my 3 hours of reading, which I really enjoyed. Today a little bit less good. Worked early, actually felt great. Had a little expresso coffee, didn't feel any more energetic but crashed after work super hard. Seems it didn't do me much good. I fell asleep during my meditation, so will do it later.

It's okay, I'll just look at it as data. Espresso= Not helpful.

Been thinking about girls a bit too much in bed. Took a little quarter of ritalin to break the cycle. That tiny bit of a dose could be a placebo for all I know but, whatever. Going to take it this evening just in case. I can see myself going down the wrong path these last few days. (progressively fantasazing more about girls). I have been squeaky clean for awhile. So I REALLY want to cut that shit out.... As I wrote that I thought screw it, and took another quarter of the ritalin. I'll just take my dose for the day in the evening.... It helps and it's below the prescribed dose... (Lol hopefully we don't find me in a ritalin addiction forum someday, Though I'd honestly take it over this PMO stuff)

May have to plan for staying up late tonight.

My one commitment: I will tonight, fall asleep without any thoughts of girls in my mind whatso ever. Then will get out of bed in the same fashion and post here IMMEDIATELY to report.
This is one of those make or break times.

In other news, been glad to make small commitments and keep them.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 06, 2019, 04:44:44 PM
Just an immediate post after to remind myself of why I am doing this.

I am at a point (not couting days) but where from experience good chance MY DICK WOULD ACTUALLY WORK. That is nice, though I plan to take things slow. That's pretty cool right? I am walking around with a decently working dick right now most likely. Fantasizing about girls tonight would lead me down the path of losing that in a hurry.

I have been feeling much better mentally.
I now am developing more patience. IT has been far easier to sacrafice short term fun/ pleasure for what matters to me. Doing this is actually making me happier.... And it shows me that my a faith in my future must be strong.

So, do I want more of this? Hell yeah!

Also for the better part of the last week I didn't even care about dating or even getting the girl. I was happy with my trajectory and healing myself, focusing on health. That is AWESOME. I want more of that.

So by breaking this cycle, and more importantly focusing in on where I want to go.... I can get more of these awesome benefits.

Health is the bomb. It's improving. My body feels much better then a few weeks ago. My career will come a long soon. Good things coming. And remember to self: Reading is the best. So many great books to read and things to learn.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on November 06, 2019, 08:09:03 PM
Good things are coming! It's awesome that you're sticking to your commitments and reminding yourself of the path you're on.

Thinking about girls is tricky stuff. It's easy and natural to do, but it can get you in trouble in a hurry. You're exactly right to be working on cutting it out, especially in situations (like being in bed) that could be a slippery slope to relapse.

Do you have specific strategies for processing your thoughts/turning away from the thoughts you don't want? For me, it usually is enough to just focus my attention my breath for a while. It might sound quaint, but I will also sometimes sing a song in my head that I learned when I was younger as like my nuclear option. There's something about having to think through a tune and lyrics at the same time that makes it really hard for other thoughts to take hold in my mind. Maybe an option if thoughts/fantasies are especially persistent.

Keep going strong!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 07, 2019, 07:07:24 AM
Good ideas. Yeah, for me it can be very tough. The key is often not starting. That is one of the difficulties I have, I can get lost in my thoughts to a pretty ridiculous extent.

But anyways, it wasn't the case yesterday! Kept the commitment.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 07, 2019, 06:25:24 PM
Also just thinking about it, going to continue, perhaps looking into ritalin protocols and maybe other medications. It does seem to be a bit toughter for me to control my thoughts then others. A huge part of my addiction is I could get lost in fantasy for hours and hours and hours. That's an issue I have, my mind can just be stuck on certain thoughts for hours and hours and it is very tough to break. (except at times like now, I took my prescribed dose of ritalin).

Did yoga today, got a massage (was worried about it being triggering, it was 90% fine. If I ever got massages super skilled OLD ladies only, it's about healing the body that's it.) It seemed to feel pretty good. I was super overwhelmed earlier and just took a full ritalin pill twice today, just been pretty calm mostly and clear headed for the first time in days, it's pretty nice. My apartment is also clean now. Man does that shit make you love cleaning.


Commitment: For tonight once again, no thoughts of girls, fall asleep perhaps reviewing day or listening to an audio book. Same for the morning.

I was slipping down the wrong path for a few days, now yestarday and now today slowly pulling myself out of that, keeping things going strong.

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on November 07, 2019, 08:35:54 PM
Sounds like good stuff to me. You know yourself and your thoughts (and the process of recovery will get you even better acquainted), so just keep doing what works for you.

Keep it up!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 08, 2019, 07:30:07 AM
Commitment kept. Thoughts popped into my head by remembered the commitment and was able to push them out.

Met a girl last night. I went to get some fruit and this girl was saying bye to these two guys. I was sly lol and walked really slow so I could time that as she said bye to them and walked she would walk right up behind me. So I was able to basically very naturally turn my head and casually start a conversation with her.

She seemed pretty cool and interesting she does some marketing stuff. I messed up a little bit. Not following my system. I am moving soon, so I thought "I want to make things happen fast!". The girl obviously liked me but I suggested we continue hanging out that night even thought it was late and we'd just met. We still ended up exchanging numbers with plans to see each other today, but I am not sure they will happen. I have seen from my experience if I ask a girl to hang out right then and there and she says no, now she'll also say no to what else I suggest. Thats why the "leave her wanting more" is so damn good.

Me and her pretty clearly liked each other. Just hada great convo,and walked together (we live near each other and walked and talked for close to a mile) and should have just set up a time to hang out in the future.

Oh well. I wasn't perfect but overall it was pretty good. Writing here my dating experiences is good to help me remember what works. I rememer Blue, you mentioned writing in a personal journal I find that helpful too, especially for learning and seeing patterns in what I am doing, so maybe I can record what happened here.

Now what I am about to write may be bs. Good chance I never see the girl again but just in case:
Also let me keep myself honest. I kind of feel like something could still happen with this girl. There is some danger here:

There expectation of something happening with a girl then it not happening is a trigger for me..... so be ready. If she never responds no biggie. If we hang out and I feel sexual tension then nothing happens go for a walk and shower.

If something does happen, no matter how far or not far it goes. Be ready for chaser affect! Get DA FUCK out of the apartment, call friends stay occupied. Read in great room.

And remember no pressure to do anything. I can say no. Recovery comes first, not forcing anything. If anything happens, it'll be for enjoyment and because it is a healthy part of recovery not so I can just say " I did this" or prove I can function.

Anyways, feeling pretty good right now (thanks ritalin!?) Looking forward to a good day. Have some important shit to get done. Then some errands and ought to take the time to think about what else will be rewarding to do/ get done today.

Also gotta watch myself feel really good but a little bit umm sexual. Those " I feel good! and excessively sexual (even for real people)" times can be dangerous. So I'll be sure to be aware. Just a reminder to myself feelings always pass. Desire or an urge can build and build and build and build until it's like we can't take it anymore and then!..... It goes away. It's not like we're some piston filling with steam and pressure building (thought it feels that way). It's all going on in the brain and feelings desires, urges come and go. And getting through them is just making my brain healthier.

BIG PICTURE.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 08, 2019, 01:03:02 PM
Little update, have some simple tasks I want to get done that I haven't yet, considering putting them off until tomorrow....

Did not hear back from that girl. No biggie. A footnote in my recovery, a nice reminder of how to do things the right way. Funny observation there.... I actually logically knew 100% I'd never seen that girl again. But my emotional mind was trying to ignore it. Sort of the flip side. We can rationally know a girl likes us but not be able to accept it. In this case I kind of was selectively ignorant of the signs that this girl actually was not interested in seeing me again. Oddly enough toward the end I could feel the vibe was a bit off. Also if when exchanging contact info a girl even suggests exchanging instagram instead of numbers, there is a very nearly 0 percent chance of seeing her ever. In my experience.

When I had instagram and we'd exchange them I'd never see the girl again. And if she suggested instagram and I have us do numbers instead/ say I don't have one ( I don't use it anymore), there is also no chance of seeing her again. This is such a ridiculously accurate metric it's crazy.

Basically if a girl really wants to hang out, she's cool exchanging numbers. Thank god phone is still the gold standard for communicating with people who are actual friends/ lovers. I think girls categorize dudes following their instagram as kind of fans/entertainment. Not a real dating prospect. So the good aspect there is that, we aren't missing anything by cutting out social media. It separates us in a a very positive way if anything. Not like a lot of other dudes who are on it, liking girls pictures and stuff hoping the girl will just comment thank you to them or something ( LAME). And filters out the noise (people who want you to follow them/ each other on social media but nothing else) versus real shit, people who actually want to be friends, date etc.


Also this thing with the girl does not "violate" my assuming the girl is into you deal. This girl was totally interested at first. I 1) Pushed things a little to quick. Which made her say no. We only knew each other for 15 min. She may have needed more time to like me enough to go on a date. And finally psychologically turning someone down causes them to rationalize why they did it, so not knowing this girl too well that was enough to make her lose interest. This is actually a very very powerful psychological effect. Ask someone to do you a favor and they say no: They'll like you less. Ask someone to do a small favor and they say yes and they'll like you. Our mind rationalizes our actions. Ben Franklin was actually famous for this, when he had political enemies thwarting his plans, he would ask them to do him tiny favors (rather then doing things for them) he'd ask in a way that made them feel important so they would say yes. After they did him a favor they'd like him more (just psychology) and they'd become friends.

So I pushed a little too hard. Suggested we hang out now, she wasn't comfortable with that yet. So she almost said yes, then said no. Now it's like I am pursuing her and she is pushing back, she got used to that. Then she goes home and is like "okay cool, I won by being alone and not hanging out with that guy..... wow that guy sucked." Suddenly the whole story can change in her mind. I was a guy pursuing her she was not interested in, rather then a guy she liked.

Plus this girl seemed kind of weird/ loopy too (sour grapes? lol). Not girlfriend material

Women, as confusing as they can seem to us in certain ways. Are actually logical in a lot of there actions. Until there is a real relationship with a women, in my opinion sexual. They can change there mind very quickly and do not value the guy too much and can be quite seemingly callous in the way they'll treat a guy when they change their mind about him. But really it's rational. We don't know each other well yet. There is no real relationship We haven't had sex.

 I think most women wait to SOLIDIFY their continued desire to have a sort of relationship with a man until it really is a relationship, until something is real. Perhaps sex several times (or equivalent intimacy and commitment for you religious folk) or perhaps bringing each other into aspects of your lives.

I think I am hopefully becoming a bit more like a woman in this regard lol. Be really into (Edit: INTERESTED, not into,) a girl, but very able to lose all interest very quickly, keeping interest totally provisional and being very unattached to what happens with a girl, until we have a real relationship and have invested in each other.

Again not meant to be callous nonsense like "Man, who cares about women, I have no feelings" nonsense. Just being smarter about investing feelings, like many women are. Investing them AFTER the relationship is created and not before.


Been thinking about this a lot. There is a lot to be learned from women when it comes to handling women lol and relationships etc. Not by the advice they give, but how they handle things and behave. I notice most girls don't chase super hard, they are often amazing at suggesting a hangout in a casual way, but only after it's like a foregone conclusion. They let you come to them. They are provisional in their interest, willing to lose interest quickly if they do not like something, until the relationship is real. They seem to handle rejection well. (though we men feel bad about it, thinking they are babies). And they often get over breakups quicker it seems.

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on November 08, 2019, 10:21:24 PM
I think you have a lot of wise thoughts, if it weren't for me getting back home so late tonight, I would take more time to respond. For now, I'll just say thanks and commit to re read tomorrow when I'm fresher. This is something I want to think more about.

And I hear what you mean about the fizzle being a trigger. Looking back, every time a relationship fell apart or was coming together but then didn't happen, I fell back into porn. Even when I was staying clean, the break-up sent me back into it. It has been like a guaranteed relapse for me, so that's something I'm also trying to be really thoughtful about. We'll get it!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 08, 2019, 11:47:07 PM
Glad to hear the reminder! I think when we can look at the big picture. Like Okay, here comes that situation that was tough in the past, this is the opportunity to learn to get over it. Is great. It also can take the sting off of it, it's part of something bigger, our continued improvement.


The girl ended up answering some texts and then canceling our hang out. Pretty much what I expected, no biggie.

Had an amazing yoga class this evening. Goal has been no internet other then work/ this forum for the week. But honestly resulted in me being on here more then I wanted. Break from Ritalin tomorrow. I was on the Ritalin posting here, (you guys may have noticed some of my posts are like books today lol). That stuff is a little strong. You can be reading or something and like suddenly two hours have past.

I nearly listened to music walking home a small thing but not doing that was part of my internet free week. As I literally was putting the headphones in I thought "hmmm, this is me breaking a commitment, breaking small commitments in the past has led to me relapsing" ( Break the commitment not to internet, then commitment not to fantasize, then.... etc. etc.). " Meh, it'll be fine it's just the internet. Then I thought like "man it would suck so fucking bad to relapse. Why put myself at risk? So I instead played an AWESOME audio book by the MAN Zig Ziglar (this I allow myself in lue of youtube the internet etc.). Which I enjoyed a lot more then I would of the music/ youtube stuff.

Those little decisions EARLY on are so key sort of like Blue posted about in non-dual's journal, taking responsibility for all the little things that lead up to the lapses is so damn key.

The book is actually about having an awesome marriage. I know it's kind of early ( I am single lol) But I think it's actually awesome. I figure guys spend so much time (ESPECIALLY me) planning and learning how to get girls, years of it. I ought to spend years prepping and planning to have an awesome relationship/ marriage/ family culture. Trying to work on setting that shit up now, as it may take years for me to be ready. Love that book a lot of ideas that I thought would be good, repeated by a dude who had an incredible marriage (they were known for loving the heck out of each other and were married when they were like 20 till he died at 86 or so). Plus other great shit.

Also I think it's a good confidence boost. I study shit and bust my ass to get good at what I want to get good at. How many people are studying themselves and how to have a great relationship, willing to plan and work at it for years before it even starts? Not many, and in my experience hard work and preparation always pays off. I am putting in work to make a relationship good, so I can be confident that I'll have a good ability to create a good relationship. Knowing that, that is something I have to offer to women, I am bringing something rare and very rewarding to the table. Confidence boost right there.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: brandnewself on November 09, 2019, 04:18:24 AM
Hey quit, congrats on the right decision that you made! I think listening to audiobook is a great substitute to youtube and all sorts of artificial stimulation. I'll also find some good books to listen to. Keep going man!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 09, 2019, 07:56:35 AM
Thanks so much bro! Really appreciate the support and encouragement! Yeah it was very rewarding, those early wins are so key. Being aware early on.


So, last night and this am, thinking about girl's I've met and stuff. What I do is I fantasize the girl is there with me, think sexual thoughts etc. There is a line I have not allowed it to cross. BUT, it's not the best habit and can, actually if left totally unchecked WILL get dangerous. Glad I had kept the commitment the previous two days (where I wrote it and planned it) but it was tough.

I notice, I have been attempting to think mentally about what went well during the day as I fall asleep, very simply this is NOT working as a replacement behavior. It simply doesn't work, it does not keep my attention, as much as it's good in theory.

So I need to try something else. For the first two days of aiming to control my thoughts before bed, I was visualizing what I wanted in the future, that worked better.

Speaking of Audio books, perhaps that could be even better as a solution for now, listening to audio books as I fall asleep.

I'll test that soon. My only problem with it, is audio books are on my phone, I'd rather not have to look at my screen too late at night.

Another thing, moving backward further in time (which is often important). It seems to be a help to do a bunch of reading outside of my bed to get myself prepped for sleep first. So perhaps I'll do that tonight .

Also very open to suggestion? Anyone deal with a similar issue? Or to generalize it. Any of you have some good presleep routines? Like the very last few minutes before falling asleep? Strategies for replacing fantasy with something else while tired? Open to all insights and suggestions.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on November 09, 2019, 08:20:11 PM
The book is actually about having an awesome marriage. I know it's kind of early ( I am single lol) But I think it's actually awesome. I figure guys spend so much time (ESPECIALLY me) planning and learning how to get girls, years of it. I ought to spend years prepping and planning to have an awesome relationship/ marriage/ family culture. Trying to work on setting that shit up now, as it may take years for me to be ready. Love that book a lot of ideas that I thought would be good, repeated by a dude who had an incredible marriage (they were known for loving the heck out of each other and were married when they were like 20 till he died at 86 or so).

This is really cool. What's the name of the book? I think you have exactly the right attitude, like the joke about the dog who always chases cars but doesn't know what he'll do when he catches one. Thinking about the actual relationship/marriage is a great way to think about it. I know, for me, that's one of the things that I have wanted the most and for the longest. Who knows when the day will come, but if you've got a good book to help me prepare for it, I'd be interested.

Also very open to suggestion? Anyone deal with a similar issue? Or to generalize it. Any of you have some good presleep routines? Like the very last few minutes before falling asleep? Strategies for replacing fantasy with something else while tired? Open to all insights and suggestions.

In the last little while, I have developed a routine that has been pretty good for me. I post here, plan the next day (to-dos and schedule), write in my journal, brush my teeth, meditate, turn off all screens, read for 30-60 minutes, and then go to bed. I feel like it has done a lot to help me go to sleep more easily (and quickly). One thing it definitely does is help me to settle down from the business of the day and slow down my thoughts and feelings into a more restful state.

Man, you're doing great and your good insights and positive attitude are inspiring to me. My recovery is a better experience because you're a part of it. Keep being awesome and sharing it with us here!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 09, 2019, 08:33:31 PM
Thanks bro!

The book/ audio program is called "courtship after marriage". It may be an audio program I guess. I have the audio version which is awesome. Zig Ziglar was like the original legit for real motivational speaker, so it' really good. Then his son talks about his and other people's marriages too. I got it for free via the library, so hopefully yours has it, in one form or the other. Zig Ziglar is the man. So different then some more recent self-help stuff, thats a bit well... selfish and sometimes entitled. To sum his mindset up in a nutshell his catchphrase is "You can get anything in life you want.... if you'll just help enough other people get what they want".

He also back in the freaking 70s was constantly bringing up how dangerous pornography is. Dude was a genius, spoke eternal truths imo.

I think listening to more of his stuff (as I have done in the past) is a great replacement for other forms of stimulation. He was a huge believer in "automobile university", said listen to good stuff while you drive. Also said: Is motivation permanent? No! But is showering permanent? No. Does that mean don't shower? Of course not. Similarly you should find ways to top up your motivation everyday. Man I love that guy. Glad you asked about it, really has me motivated to expose myself to his stuff more habitually. He laid out the blueprint: Career. Great Marriage, family life, friends. It was all about balance and being a good citizen. He always said, his kids and family came first.

Thanks for sharing the routine man! That sounds like awesome, like an idea routine if I could get to that point. Really cool to see you are doing something like that, because that is like ideally what I'd like to do, more or less. Planning the next day out and journaling followed by reading man that's awesome. 

And thanks so much for the compliment man! You are of course a ridiculously good source of motivation and positivity! You are basically the gold standard of that on the forum

Edit: Oh yeah update on day. Feel pretty good, uneventful. I almost forgot to mention my day, which is a good thing imo. No challenges really. I do notice I need to build cases against people in my head less if that makes sense..... Like a coworker said something that annoyed me and in my head for like 15 min I am thinking about how he's the worst, he's not good at his job I never liked him. Then working with him the rest of the day, I realized he's pretty okay and nice. That's a bad habit I have. I'd like to somehow learn the art of being a little annoyed at people, rather then it being so extreme. (People being great or evil type of deal, in my mind)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 10, 2019, 10:34:39 AM
Still pretty happy with my progress.

Just going to do that commitment that is nice once in awhile. No more fantasy about girls sexually or at all while in bed today and tomorrow morning.

Slept like 12 hours last night, I guess I needed it. Just fell right asleep really early. Can't remember the last time I slept that much.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on November 10, 2019, 08:20:21 PM
Thanks for the title and recommendation! I'm definitely going to look into that: it sounds like a great model for life.

Glad it was a pretty good day, too! I kind of know the feeling of getting overly annoyed at people. Something else we can work on, I guess (it's amazing how recovery just peels back the layers and reveals more and more about us that we want to work on).

12 hours of sleep! That sounds pretty awesome. I have not had good sleep the last couple nights. I don't think I'm going to get 12 hours, but I am going to try to get to bed earlier than usual.

Have a great start of the week!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 10, 2019, 10:28:57 PM
Thanks! Ended up actually seeing that girl again, after she cancelled I purposefully did not invest much and waited a day to contact her. We mostly walked around, went to the beach. I was a little more aggressive then I'd like to be.

She's a pretty girl, but it's hot here where I live and straight up this girl needed deodorant ewwww lol. Not my thing, she was wearing a tang top and I could straight up smell her armpits.

I am moving soon, but I guess going on a mediocre date, when I had nothing else to do didn't hurt me. I have occasionally not dated for awhile then gone on a date with an awesome girl and totally fucked it up. So these occasional low pressure dates are good..... make the dumb mistakes that are inevitable after long breaks from dating, in low pressure situation and be smoother, more patient with the girl that are real prospects.

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 10, 2019, 11:22:17 PM
WOW. Strange kind of alarming experience.

So, I am getting ready for bed. I had a brief flash of a pmo fetish then thought "maybe I can relapse, it's not a big deal it's just one". I was already planning like to post here about the lapse the next day.

I was like oh shoot! Rather then doing that tonight and posting about it tomorrow let me post about that thought NOW, before that bs, instead. I opened up this post and..... you see where it says WOW. That first line. I opened up to write the post and unconsciously instantly, not even looking at my screen I typed the words "I just had a lapse." I backspaced them and wrote WOW. Hmmm that's a little alarming.

Well let me remind myself. That shit is UP TO ME. I am not the superstitious type, I wrote that as it was a thought going through my head and I did the right thing by acknowledging it and posting here.

I may though, possibly give up the no internet this week commitment. I am having a tough time not fantasizing about girls in bed, finding a replacement behaviour for that. I kind of want to watch a few videos on my phone... ugghhh this is a bit annoying.

Oh well, I can make at least one commitment, weird ominous feeling things I wrote or not....... I'll get through tonight. I don't think it's necessary but let me make the decision now. I'll stay up all night and take a ritalin if I have to. After writing that sentence decided to take a half one as a little extra help. Drugs before pmo lol.

The ritalin has all sorts of side effects it seems and doesn't do a ton for my performance overall lately, but man that shit is helpful for this reboot. It just lowers urges a bit, but that little bit can make all the difference. Thinking I'll just perhaps keep the stuff on hand as a just in case/ back up plan. It also doesn't usually make me feel good, which I think is good, not really me escaping feelings it just somehow lowers the urges, they just pop up weaker. I think it just makes any thoughts other then what I am focused on weaker.

Oh well. See you all tomorrow.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 11, 2019, 08:23:18 AM
 :D Commitment from earlier kept. Woke up feeling pretty tired but oh well, did what I needed to. Have a good bit to do today, in terms of cleaning and packing. Suppose I'll just listen to a bunch of audio books and work on it for a large portion of the morning/ early afternoon.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 11, 2019, 12:53:35 PM
Little update: Watching some youtube and stuff. Just want to keep myself honest. I made a pretty concious decision to do so, was finding it a bit tough not using internet at all and avoiding thoughts of girls/ fantasy.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 11, 2019, 06:38:17 PM
Still clean, but this was a lost day. Did very little, overate.

I read this book that intermittent fasting is good, tried it yesterday. I have done that for months even, that shit DOES NOT work for me. Does not work with my metabolism. It just threw me off today, woke up super hungry and barely able to function and the day started wrong and that was that.

Was upset like now I am going to go off rails. No, today is one day (missing meditation etc.) tomorrow is a new one and it'll be awesome.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on November 11, 2019, 09:39:48 PM
I was like oh shoot! Rather then doing that tonight and posting about it tomorrow let me post about that thought NOW, before that bs, instead. I opened up this post and..... you see where it says WOW. That first line. I opened up to write the post and unconsciously instantly, not even looking at my screen I typed the words "I just had a lapse." I backspaced them and wrote WOW. Hmmm that's a little alarming.

Well let me remind myself. That shit is UP TO ME. I am not the superstitious type, I wrote that as it was a thought going through my head and I did the right thing by acknowledging it and posting here.

Sounds like a scary experience, but your response sounds pretty spot on! I have had those relapse-oriented thoughts before, and the thought of what I would post here after has helped steer me in a better direction a couple of times. You're one step ahead, actually posting in advance to put those feelings away.

And you're exactly right, it is totally up to you. It often feels like relapses just take control, but it's always up to us. If it weren't, none of our recovery efforts would matter. It would just depend on whenever the addiction was done with us (which is not how it works). We're always in the driver seat, but it takes a lot to realize that and live like that consistently.

Sounds like you're still on track in good ways. Even if you sort of lost the day to less than ideal behaviors, you stayed clean, and you can always get right back to it tomorrow.

Keep it going!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 12, 2019, 10:31:41 AM
Thanks bro!

Today, nothing super eventful, staying off t, the internet. I am moving and my apartment is a mess, a little overwhelmed about it. I know it's kind of procrastinating but I have had way too much free time, thinking off taking my own advice and finding some random fun activity to do, something exciting. Maybe can plan it, clean a bit do the activity as a reward after, type of deal.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 12, 2019, 12:31:38 PM
Got a little strongish urge out of nowhere, brief but what a crazy thought it was! Actually it did not come out of nowhere..... So I decided I need some help with organizing my apartment so thought to hire someone. Looking on craigslist and posted an ad. I think that reminds me of old websites that I used to browse..... and brought up all these addictivey thoughts.

Glad I wrote about it, it so obviously came from somewhere. Gotta be careful of all the little urges and stuff, but in a way glad to be aware of it and get through it.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on November 12, 2019, 06:55:35 PM
Those urges that come out of nowhere usually (probably always) do come from somewhere, and I bet you're right about where that urge came from.

Moving (and all the organizing and cleaning that go with it) is one of the worst things! My condolences, lol. Hopefully you get some good help and get things set up. The process of moving is bad, but the end result is usually pretty good. Excited for you!

Keep moving forward with your eyes wide open, just like you're doing. Stay in touch with yourself and take appropriate actions as needed, and you'll keep going far!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 12, 2019, 10:14:20 PM
Not too productive today but the end of the day had some work to do, man it felt good to HAVE to work.

So I am moving cities, I used to post here how I am in my dream city etc. now moving back to home city : /. Part of me felt like it was a mistake leaving my old city, things were going well. Here, almost no friends career hasn't been the same, miss people and stuff. But bummed about leaving this place. At the end of the day, no matter where I am it's mostly going to come down to me living right. Gotta figure out the career too and in the old city ( the biggest in the damn country, so you can guess which lol) so much opportunity, so that'll be cool.

Edit: I do have to admit, in this new city as beautiful and nice weather as it is. It's 90% vacationers, tough to have relationships/ build a real life. I moved backward in every major category, money, career, friends. In old city, had a steady job, friends even have a dating prospect who lives there. Had a few hobbies I couldn't do here.

Yeah, it's the right choice going back, didn't know what I had till it's gone. Bummed about leaving, but my life isn't progressing here, it's been like a super long vacation. Zig Ziglar "Happiness isn't pleasure, happiness is victory". I gotta get back to progressing in life. Then get mad rich and can come here in the winters or when I want a break lol
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 13, 2019, 09:48:06 AM
Good morning. Not much new, kind of slept in. Been ummm, fantasizing a lot about sexual things. I'd like to lower that. I guess it's like we were talking about in another thread, up and down's of recovery. Well, overall things still going good, but I've had periods where it's like I am just not even thinking about girls are sex, not interested and that feels AWESOME.

Okay, I'll aim to cut out fantasy for the rest of today, tonight and tomorrow AM. Internet too.

I have not committed to it yet, but will likely make the same commitment tomorrow.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on November 13, 2019, 06:53:32 PM
Solid reflection on your move back. It does sound like the right move. I can't remember where I heard it or if this even the right quote, but I remember hearing something like, "How you live matters way more than where you live." And I think you hit on that. Living well in your old city is way better in the end than living poorly in your dream city. Get the patterns of your life right, and then you can move them anywhere in the world and be successful.

Definitely put a stop to that fantasizing! It's easy to fall into, and I bet move stress is contributing. You don't need me to tell you, but those fantasies aren't doing you any favors.

Keep moving forward (even if it literally means moving back for now)!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: the zen master on November 13, 2019, 09:47:28 PM
We can do this, go for it mate.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 13, 2019, 11:48:23 PM
REALLY appreciate that reminder to stop the fantasy. Saying and writing it myself is one thing, but reading/hearing it from someone else is really really good too.

Yup. Gotta look at the bright side, it is a great city. I am also thinking of really changing my life up a bit, changing the career path so that could be good.

Thanks Zen Master! Really appreciate the encouragement, and I'll keep it up!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 14, 2019, 10:06:57 AM
Well, successfully cut out the fantasy as outlined in the commitment. Feels good and encouraging! Had pretty good morning wood this morning which I definitely take as a good sign. ( I notice it more when cutting out the fantasy, and less or not at all when fantasizing a lot- couldn't ask for a much clearer message about what's best for my reboot!).

Will renew the commitment for today. No fantasy about sex/girls in bed and try not to think about girls too much either. Bad the main commitment: Don't fantasize about girls in my bed tonight, nor tomorrow morning or at all.


Last full day here. I can't believe it! I want to enjoy it a bit, but more importantly.... I need to get myself excited about the future..... what good awaits me in the new city? Family, more people live there, cool activities, etc. That's crucial I think to feel good about the transition...
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 14, 2019, 03:06:50 PM
Had some urges pop up a bit. Around this girl some thoughts popped into my head, glad that I was able to control them, remember my commitment. Keep moving forward!

REMINDER: It will pass! I just gave this advice to others. My brain is thinking "wow I am horny!" But really this feeling will pass. An hour for now I could be in a flatline. (Very welcome, I actually love flatlines sometimes, easy progress)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 15, 2019, 12:21:12 AM
Some sexual thoughts popped into my head, but nothing too serious. Bed soon, feeling pretty good.

Will miss this city (last night!). But it's the right choice to leave. Have some fun planned for tomorrow and this time 24 hours from now I'll be in a totally new city over 1,000 miles away with a totally different climate!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on November 15, 2019, 08:18:25 PM
Sounds like a lot has been happening. It's great that you're sticking to setting fantasy aside. It's the right thing to do, and it's great to remember that all the fantasies/urges/etc. will pass. It definitely feels like urges just get worse and worse until you break, but that's just a trick they have to make us relapse. They do pass, and we can get right back to living life once they do.

Good luck with the move! I'm sure there are a lot of mixed feelings, but it's good that you're feeling good about it overall. Get yourself on a strong foundation, and the rest will follow.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 15, 2019, 09:43:32 PM
Thanks Man!

Messed up with fantasizing a bit, but did not cross into fetish.

I am now across the country! Feeling good about the move. With family now so just a brief check in. Still clean, ready to get my life moving again and planning for future
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 16, 2019, 07:30:26 AM
Last night into this morning, totally solid which was awesome (no thoughts of girls or fantasy at all, slept really well. Woke up feeling better and more "awake" then in the last few weeks.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: brandnewself on November 16, 2019, 08:39:38 AM
It's really good that you check in on the forum daily or even more. Over time you will have record/log of your changes and you can really observe it from a more objective and broad perspective and see your improvements. Keep it up man!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on November 16, 2019, 09:16:57 PM
That's great! I'm glad the move went well and that you're already in a good headspace. It sounds like you're off to a great start in readjustment.

Go get 'em!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 16, 2019, 10:36:58 PM
Thanks bro! Pretty good day.... A few thoughts popping into my head but brushed them off pretty quick.

Gotta stay focused. Forgot ritalin in old apartment..... so going to get some more when I can. Gotta stay focused and keep this going, good things around the corner. Haven't been meditating, will do so tomorrow am. That's one of those little things that add up to help so good to get it going again ASAP
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 17, 2019, 09:07:17 AM
Did the meditation this morning, it was pretty nice and relaxing. Used a guided meditation recording that was good. PMO thoughts popping into my head fairly often, but they are very weak. However must take them seriously as engaging with them leads to very bad things.....

Planning to go to yoga class soon this morning. If not that class will go to another later. Want to keep self fairly busy today
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on November 17, 2019, 10:55:18 PM
All good stuff. Meditation has become such a lifeline to me this year. I've been doing it for a few years, but something has changed this year and it has really sort of clicked in some ways. Maybe it's just something that happens as time goes on. I don't really know, but I do know that it has helped a lot.

Definitely take those PMO thoughts seriously, but also don't worry too much about them. The less attention we pay them, the less effective they are.

Good luck with your first week at your new place!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 17, 2019, 11:28:57 PM
Thanks! Looking forward to keeping the meditation going.

Feeling a slight "lack" of motivation about my recovery like it wasn't feeling that important. That is a BS thought. Because it does feel pretty damn important when you lose a nice streak and get thrown wayyyy the hell off in life.

A girl (pretty much the only one I knew in nyc) didn't answer me in a message today. Lol. No matter how much you know, this stuff can play with emotions. That's why getting support is good. I was kind of banking on dating this girl, feel a bit lame that I was almost expecting that. Oh well. So much goddamn opportunity awaits me in the future! Just got to stay on this path!

Gotta remind myself:
I probably have a working penis (or close to it)! Right now!
Man, been free of those confidence killing pmo fetish fantasies for awhile! (some of the longest ever of not fantasizing about that stuff!)
My brain is recovering! The more I recover the more capacity I will have for EVERYTHING.
I have a great family to support me, they believe in me and that'll help me stay clean.
Man, if nothing else staying clean in my journal is helpful for others to read, anything else let's a lot of people down.
IF I keep staying clean of PMO I am GUARANTEED to have a pretty awesome girlfriend in the future. On PMO that can not happen, intimacy sex etc. literally become impossible. But why worry about the little ups and downs? If I stay on this clean path, inevitably I will get where I want to go.

And finally, man this addiction really stole a lot from me. I remember some awesome girls where this led to PIED, awkward situations, me not knowing what was going on. Never seeing cool girls, girls who would have been my girlfriends.... again.

There are still MILLIONS of guys out there with PIED, maybe anxiety issues too from porn. Man, imagine how much that sucks? Basically just having a penis that does not work and not being able to do a damn thing about it. Doesn't get much worse. IDK being blind maybe?

If I were in that position, my dick not working. Never able to have sex or a full relationship with a woman, anxious and sad all the time. Depressed. DICK NOT WORKING. No women ever in my life, not capable of intimacy even outside of sex. That is a heavy heavy burden. I'd say "I'd do anything to fix this!!!" Well here I am, I am one of the lucky few who knows the problem and the solution and I have the OPPORTUNITY to fix it, my god that is a wonderful position to be in. I am grateful I am a lucky person who has the opportunity to put in work and effort to fix a major major life problem.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 18, 2019, 09:39:26 AM
It's really good that you check in on the forum daily or even more. Over time you will have record/log of your changes and you can really observe it from a more objective and broad perspective and see your improvements. Keep it up man!

Thanks! Great point, I tend to forgot looking over past things I have written that is a good idea. Gets me thinking, that I can also be aware of that when I write. This is valuable information for me in the future, not just writing to help myself now.

Speaking of that, very glad I wrote down what motivated me. Writing down motivations seems to lower urges (again when done in advance). That really seems to be key to the reboot/recovery being proactive, planning in advance. Way back when I'd write down motivating stuff when the urge was already super powerful, this time I did it before it really got anywhere, it was still just thoughts. As a result it never escalated. I don't think I even thought of girls at all last night as I fell asleep.

Yesterday, I kept myself totally occupied almost the whole day, found activities. That was helpful and mostly fun, was really tired by the end but that was kind of good maybe, slept pretty quickly.

Today:
Make calls for a temp job to have money coming in/ stay busy. (Being employed is important!)
Yoga maybe.
OH yeah meditation this am! (how did I almost forget?
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 18, 2019, 03:44:15 PM
Wow, having the family here is such a help. I was about to basically piss away my day watching youtube, but my mom saw what was happening and really pushed me to come out with her just for a little while. That was great. Then I was thinking of doing some computer work, but wanted to do yoga, I was a little tiggered and "off".

Rushed out to yoga and had an amazing class and now feel good, calm and happy. Nice! Wow. Yoga can be a real lifesaver sometimes. I love the difficult classes. They are a super hard workout and really balance my mind.

Seeing my dad this evening. Staying busy is such a help.

I forgot my ritalin in my old city..... that scared me but I am just being meticulous and also have the help of my family which is great.


Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 18, 2019, 03:52:47 PM
Just a funny/ perhaps important little thing from yesterday I forgot to post about.

I met a girl in the bookstore, turns out I had met her before years ago by a crazy coincidence. The girl seemed pretty fun and interesting, but seems to have some mental issues.

To put her in a nutshell: She is a stripper (makes great cash but has no bank account) who is currently on probation for pulling a knife out on a girl who idk posted mean stuff about her on facebook or something. She also lives with her boyfriend but "wants to leave him".

Funny how psychology works, or some weird part of me. Honestly the girl is not that attractive, I always think I'd never ever date a girl like that but part of me is triggered by her I think.

I am 80% going for a relationship now, but if I want to go on some dates have experiences/practice while I look, I could probably do better ya know? Would dating this girl and perhaps having literal criminal activity around me/ erractic behaviour help me life/ help me be more stable?

I believe a long time ago in the journal I wrote about how certain types of girls are triggering to me and are kind of separate from my healthy sexuality with real people part. Because it's like I don't take them serious as people my subconsious thinks they'd be "down for anything" etc. Anyways. Back to healthy stuff, literally MILLIONS of girls out there, I'll find an awesome one who is attractive and has great qualities. No woman can solve my problems for me or single handedly make me happy, but a good relationship can certainly add to my life I reckon.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on November 18, 2019, 09:45:40 PM
It really sounds like things are going well for you post-move. There are challenges, for sure, but it's great that you can count on the support of family and involvement in good things like yoga to help keep you on track! That's really encouraging and awesome.

A girl (pretty much the only one I knew in nyc) didn't answer me in a message today. Lol. No matter how much you know, this stuff can play with emotions. That's why getting support is good. I was kind of banking on dating this girl, feel a bit lame that I was almost expecting that. Oh well.

I get this feeling. It was maybe a long shot, and it didn't work out, but you were hoping. But you also maybe feel silly for hoping and laugh off the disappointment, but it's still disappointment. You're definitely right to say oh well and look forward to that one in a million who will make a meaningful difference in your life, but you're also not wrong to be a little bummed. Feel it, accept it, but don't be controlled by it. I've been trying to learn to be more accepting of my emotions and feelings, even the ones that I recognize don't really make sense, and it's helping me have a better attitude toward myself. Maybe I'm projecting (I like doing that), but I also think it could be good in general to acknowledge our feelings, even when we "know" we shouldn't really be having them.

That was a tangent. The point is that it sounds like you're doing great and doing a good job of recognizing what you really want (like a real relationship) and what would only get in the way (like the wrong kind of girl). Definitely wise to stay away from criminal activity, lol. Keep your eye on that eventual prize! It's coming!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 18, 2019, 10:47:15 PM
Thanks man! Great insights about accepting the emotion.

On the bright side, honestly I think my hope for this girl served me very well. It helped motivate me to keep a good streak going, it kept me feeling more positive about the move. It's almost like she just represented the concept of having an awesome relationship and how cool that'll be in the future. An awesome relationship is still in the future so really nothing changes. Haven't been visualizing but it'd be nice to get back to it. Helped me handle this I think, I visualized so many girls being into me lol. Plus visualized having a good relationship that it feels pretty damn possible.

Work out class with my dad was great, really liked it. I'd like to do more workout classes, if the instructor is good they can be great. This one really was focused on proper form, I got a really good workout and I think it did my body/ old injuries well. Plus it's a social thing really nice to be there with other people. I need that. Seriously. When I workout alone it's like people are in my way, I just want the equipment to be free. Doing a class I am glad others are there and it takes my mind of the difficult parts. A much much much healthier place to be and really what I need.

I did not get along with my sibling at all (she HATED me) growing up. Got in fights in school a lot etc. Did solo sports. A lot of building up that pattern of competing against others and going it alone. Really good to find opportunities to break that habit and support others, be a part of a team, not see things as a zero sum game. Life is a lot better that way.

This forum really helps me with that too. So exercise classes, being a part of a group (something I always resisted) a good thing.

Meditated this am, then tried again this evening but it was triggering. Evening meditation simply usually doesn't work. No biggie. A short meditation plus visualization both in the morning is a better routine.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on November 19, 2019, 05:55:20 PM
Glad my rambling was worth something!

And I think you're on to something with this idea of being part of a group. I definitely resist being in a group (like even in school growing up), and I think I'm generally pretty reluctant to make connections with people, maybe in part because I have moved around so much, so it just hasn't seemed worth doing. But you're right: it makes a big difference for the better. Something else for me to mull.

Keep it going!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 19, 2019, 11:39:55 PM
Thanks man! A bit of fantasizing (not crossing threshold into the bad stuff) about girls, but other then that things going well.

I am so much happier up here around family and friends. Have an idea for a new career path, something totally different, that I am just starting to look into.

No dating propects or anything but I don't really care which is awesome. Don't feel desperate. Man, moving back was the best decision. Been wanting to learn to make things with my hands. My moms boyfriend (been together with him for 20 yrs, like married) I have known since I was a kid and is a nice guy. He is like a master legit artist, made everything in the whole apartment, like tables, chests, carved wood art, awesome stuff. Why haven't I asked him to teach me? Thinking to do that, learn from him. Plus I really like him and have known him since I was a young kid, could be cool to spend some time together. So hopefully can do that. Just ask him at least, I've been looking for classes etc. but literally live with the best case scenario for learning stuff like this.

Following the "grain brain" (book by nuero surgeon) protocol this week. This is day three. Do feel more focused, but that could just be cause I am happier.

As I typed my mom passed by ( I am in the living room floor lol) on her way to the bathroom, we chatted a bit. Honestly I like not living alone. As much as I separated myself from people, groups. I am not the type that needs much alone time. Next apartment I'll view having roomates as a good thing. Looking forward to living with future girlfriend/wife too.


This evening, watched a show with my dad, then saw friends we ate then played pool.

Whats great about how I feel, I don't feel like super "high" just happy and calm. I think just being around people I know well is the best.

WHAT WAS I DOING IN THAT OTHER CITY? I was alone rotting away, knew no one. Not moving forward in life.

Glad to have that feeling, as I was afraid I'd bemoan the fact that I left, not the case at all. Very happy to be in an exciting city with friends, family and people who actually live here that I can befriend, date etc. Rather then a constant flow of different tourists, never to be seen again.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on November 20, 2019, 07:03:17 PM
Whats great about how I feel, I don't feel like super "high" just happy and calm. I think just being around people I know well is the best.

WHAT WAS I DOING IN THAT OTHER CITY? I was alone rotting away, knew no one. Not moving forward in life.

This is so, so awesome! Sometimes people around here can sound a little frantic or emotionally intense, but you do sound happy and calm. Highs come with crashes, but genuine happiness and calmness don't come with the same roller coaster effect. It's so great that your move is showing itself to be the right choice so clearly.

I also really support the idea of learning from your mom's boyfriend. Porn is fake and it traps us in a world of fake things, preventing us from doing real things. Making things with your hands sounds like something super real, and I think that's a great counterbalance to all the internal/emotional/mental work of recovery.

Keep it up!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 21, 2019, 12:16:12 AM
Thanks man! Yeah, more of the same today. Saw a friend. On the way home sat on the subway and ACROSS FROM ME. Like right across was a friend I haven't seen since I moved.... The chances?! (This city is 8 million ppl) The train has like 10 cars, 100s of ppl. He was literally the seat right across from me.

We had a great time/conversation. Went for dinner together, it was awesome.

I asked my mom's boyfriend to teach me stuff and he said sure, so gotta get on actually doing that with him.

TWO new career prospects popped up today. Pretty good seeming ones.

Saw an old mentor, who gave me a relationship book today as well a a mindfulness book. Out of nowhere, we've never even talked about this stuff, I never brought it up and this is exactly the stuff I'd been thinking I needed to work on.  I guess I better check them out. One is a mindfulness work book, the other is the 5 love languages by Gary Chapman. I flipped it open to random pages and it was like practices for relationship (exactly what I was thinking I wanted to develop) and the other is a workbook, something I also was thinking about. Man the universe/ religion whatever can work in strange ways.

Mostly feeling calm, but perhaps a tiny bit over excited. (Found a possible free program to change to a whole new industry that is worth A LOT of money). Let me remind myself: Having a great time now, but still should get a job! (Unemployed here). Nice to be rent free for the time being, but can't stay here forever and it's nice to have some money lol.

Overall great day. Talked to a few girls with friend, didn't over do it. Had a long convo with a girl, but chemistry wasn't there. Didn't ask for her number for me thats always a WIN. Not chasing girls who aren't really into me.

That's all really: Reminder to self: STAY HUMBLE. Things are going well, keep it that way. Do the small things. Do whatever it takes to stay clean as all this good stuff hinges on that...
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 21, 2019, 08:54:42 AM
Last line was prophetic. Had a sort of pmo flashback as I fell asleep, it was strong but I didn't engage. Then had a weird kind of sex dream, but it seemed influenced by PMO. So gotta stay vigilant. Looking forward to getting some more ADHD meds as that stuff helps. Also being more strict about the fantasy which I was not as good with the last few days. Do the little things to stay clean.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on November 21, 2019, 08:10:28 PM
It's crazy how things align like that sometimes! That's a lot of cool coincidences all at once. No surprise that the weird urges/dreams would show up now and just try to get in the way of all the great stuff that's happening. This addiction just doesn't know when to quit, does it?

You're right to remind yourself to stay humble, and you're right to be feeling good about things in general. You have good habits in place, but the move probably threw them a little out of order. You'll get your routines and patterns more established as time goes on.

Good luck with the job search too! It's cool that you found a couple prospects and an interesting program to switch industries.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 21, 2019, 11:03:33 PM
Thanks!

Early today I felt the effects of the urges etc. Had one of those weird feelings I haven't had in awhile that accompany, follow or precede urges. Just this intense restless upset, irritable feeling that was very strong and felt like it couldn't go away no matter what.

I looked for a gym to workout like a freaking junkie looking for heroin lol. I was so restless. Found a gym nearby and did a free trial day. I worked out like a crazy person for like 2 hours, careful to change up exercises and cardio machines to not over work any joints and hurt myself. This worked I was exhausted for hours after, not feeling amazing but got rid of that super strong feeling and weakened the urges and flashbacks. Looking forward to getting Ritalin back lol. (Lost it- it's hard to get it prescribed) Oh well, probably good for me to get through urges like that.

(When I say crazy person I mean it lol... I was like working out on a cardio machine doing intervals grunting yelling etc. I pushed so hard ...but it worked)

Rest of day was nice, family and did a bit of learning for possible future career. REALLY enjoyed it and put the left over restless energy into that.

Felt pretty happy for the last quarter of the day or so. After working out super hard then eating a bunch of healthy food (I was super hungry/ under ate) I probably literally lost a pound or two of fat today.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 21, 2019, 11:14:28 PM
10 minutes later lol.

Let me aim to keep women out of my mind for tonight and tomorrow am and invest in motivation now, as it seems to help.

I have a REALLY good streak going. In terms of how clean I have been. Remember how much I hate those escalating pmo fetishes? The shame, the ruining so much of my confidence. THEY ARE DYING. Every day I go through pushing them out of my mind, they die more and more. Man that is awesome. I have wanted that for so long. Keep it up!

My focus is so much better! I didn't even realize it, but I am learning better. My brain will continue to improve get strong, parts will literally get bigger as I heal more and more! This will make me happier, since my brain is functioning better. Not to mention how having a stronger healthier brain will make my life better! I'll have more emotional control, self-control. This will improve my relationships with friends and allow me to have a stronger social life.
I'll feel more connected to others. My life will have more meaning.

This increased focus will allow me to grow into finding a career I really like and being GOOD at it, making good money. Money'll be AWESOME lol. The focus of being clean, more money. This money will allow me to live in the location I want, I'll be able to save. I'll be able to take my family out to meals. My confidence will increase a lot. Man that'll be nice. Having money in the bank.

Being clean, gives me more energy, may raise testosterone and will allow me to be stronger and in better shape.

Above all else. It'll feel damn good to look myself in the mirror and feel good about this PMO thing being far far away in the past.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 22, 2019, 11:30:01 AM
Shoot, struggling. Fantasized about girls a bit last night, then my mind slipped into very early fetish fantasies. I did not consciously engage with them, but it was close to for me what would be a lapse. This is tough. With fantasy it would go through this cycle where I get these like pre fantasies almost without any resistance or conscious awareness then a few days later falling into the pmo fetish fantasies.

It stinks because it feels like this sort of thing I can not control. The fantasies start without my concious awareness as far as I Know. I stayed up like all night and they still happened. I really could use the Rialin, that was what allowed me to stop that part of the addiction. Had a doctors appointment today but receptionist apparently forogot to make me the appointment. So now for Tuesday.


Hopefully there is a way for me to get through this without it until Tuesday, unfortunately I don't really see what more I can do.
Well, maybe that's not true. Meditation hopefully, but lately I get urges during it sometimes.

Could use tips/help here. Pretty desparate to the point that the idea of buying other ADHD medicine's on the street is crossing my mind.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 22, 2019, 01:03:03 PM
Doctor from other state is mailing a prescription, cost a good bit of money but worth it, that stuff REALLY helps. Should have it by tomorrow.

Signed up for meditation group tonight, don't normally love medtiation groups but it'll prob help me to do a longer/quality meditation and being around others I think will lower urges. So the meditation should help.

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: gragnok on November 22, 2019, 02:38:24 PM
Hang in there!
I haven’t been back through all of your journals yet so don’t have a crystal clear understanding, but sounds like medication tomorrow will be helpful.
Meditation works very well for me personally, sounds like a good plan!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: faenoe on November 22, 2019, 06:23:25 PM
Hey quit. Just catching up from this week. I really enjoyed your post from the 17th. The truth is, like you said, that there is nothing good porn has to offer you. Everything lies within sticking to your goal of being free from porn.

Anyways, just wanted to say thanks for your posts. I always enjoy reading them. Sorry things have been though lately but you can do it. Do whatever you can to think about other things. Taking walks has always helped me. Go explore your new environment and maybe try to think of some fun date ideas. You have made it this far man. Keep it up.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 22, 2019, 06:47:46 PM
Thanks so much guys! Man the little words of encouragement can help so much. Because I really was not finding it in myself even a minute ago. Really needed to hear them.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on November 22, 2019, 08:23:41 PM
You've got this! You have come this far, and you have good tools for dealing with these things. Plus your medication is coming, and that will definitely help. Just hang on (that's not a long-term solution, but it can work until you get your prescription).

The last couple weeks have been full of urges and triggers for me, and they have really gotten under my skin and made me worried. But they pass! This will pass, maybe not today, but it will pass. You'll get through it. One day at a time.

I think you're doing some smart things, going to work out and going out to meditate. These might not be things that you have to do every day, but they can be useful in an emergency. Other things might slide a little bit, but the main priority now is just getting through the next day clean (and you have gotten through so many days clean already!)

Things are working out, and your addiction knows it. If you're living a happy and abundant life, you won't have any need for your addiction, so it's trying to mess things up for you so it doesn't lose control. Don't let it win!

Cheering you on!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 22, 2019, 11:43:03 PM
Thanks man! Great point about it being temporary and that things can go to the wayside and thats okay. I am worrying like holy shit I can't function. But that's okay. A few more hours, maybe a day will suck really bad and not much else will get done. That's okay.

Thanks for the support everyone this is the time I really really needed. On my own don't think I'd get through this.

Luckily very tired, sleep soon hopefully. But if I have to stay up all night it is what it is. No work tomorrow hopefully get meds.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 23, 2019, 09:40:40 AM
Thanks for the support everyone! Really Reallly needed it last night. The night actually ended up uneventful (in a VERY) good way. I was thinking a little bit about a girl I am interested in dating, (which can be dangerous) but it did not escalate at all, the urge had passed and I fell asleep and slept pretty well. This morning I feel good again. Happy, relaxed those really annoying urge feelings and irritation etc. passed.

Hopefully going to learn a bit of how to build things, as mentioned in a previous post. Ritalin prescription supposed to arrive soon, just in time for me not needing it anymore lol ( But still very welcome) (For those who haven't read it, Ritalin is not like an anti depressant which is taken daily. doc said don't take it everyday ( It is more like caffeine sort of). For me it helps A TON with strong urges) .

Meditation group I did not enjoy, it was pretty weird, but it got me to meditate for 20 mins so that was perhaps helpful to my later lack of urges. I wrote a long thing about why I don't like meditation groups etc. but really not all that relevant so I'll just say- I find them incredibly bizarre and they are thoroughly not for me (Unless I find a better one in the future) . But hey, anything is better then the alternative. I was thinking "wow, this is so weird and boring, these people are crazy, I don't fit in" which is better then sitting home thinking " OMG, I am going to die if I don't pmo" lol. I think there is a lesson there, ANY distraction around people during an urge is likely worth it to do. In fact, I may keep this group in mind, as I am not too concerned with my standing in the group, so if I feel awful it could be a distraction.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 23, 2019, 05:30:56 PM
Well, going to be catiouse. Pharmacy did not have meds, tried a whole bunch, it was unpleasant and I got a bit riled up. OH well. Just going to be vigilant. Should have it by Monday. I'll remind myself I was feeling pretty fine just a few hours ago.

Seems not being able to get the meds, triggered me in itself. Like I got all riled up. I guess expecting something, getting something, feeling good. Then not getting it or not feeling good. Creates frustration and can be a definite trigger.

Just gotta stay aware. Really, nothing super important is happening these next few days, or at least I don't have tons of commitments. So I can be grateful. I can dedicate a lot of mental energy and time to dealing with urges so it's no biggie.

Remember: Distract- If an urge pops up do another activity for awhile. Then posting here is often helpful to me.
Urges always pass.

I have a good streak going too!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on November 23, 2019, 08:10:22 PM
Keep that streak alive!

I know what you mean about disappointment being a trigger. Especially during this phase of my recovery, more in the last few months than now, little things really got to me more than they used to. And you say trying to get your medication was maybe kind of a small thing, but it's okay if it felt like a big thing. Shouldn't these things just work out? Yeah, but sometimes they don't. Our addicted brains will tell us that PMO is the way to deal with these disappointments, but our addicted brains are, of course, wrong.

A good night's sleep really is the best cure for urges sometimes. I'm glad you felt better after an uneventful night.

Just aim for getting through one more day. In the end, that's all any of us can do (and you know how those days add up over time). You've got this!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 23, 2019, 09:44:23 PM
Thanks bro! Yes, just one more day. Feeling better now. Looking forward to this phase passing. I had such a nice week almost urge free. Oh well it's all part of recovery. Delayed gratification, getting through this will just make me stronger and weaken the addiction. Plus working of this energy will get me back in shape. Working out WAY more then I had been recently.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 24, 2019, 12:28:32 AM
Man, trying to relax with some comedy. Three commercials in a row, two of three featuring women's bodies super heavily, basically soft core porn. Would have probably been considered porn in like the 50s. Man, I am not anti business or anything, but so much of marketing is such bullshit.

Avoiding this stuff really makes me notice it. It's crazy how many ads feature women's bodies, mind blowing. Such a cheap trick to try and influence us into buying mostly worthless garbage.

Honestly quitting PMO has made me see a lot of value in traditional cultures/values. I was raised around/ exposed to a lot of like idk very liberal arts college stuff. Like anything goes, tradition is dumb rules are dumb, rules about sex are dumb. But I can definitely see what I was taught doesn't seem to work too well for many people. The idea of not using sexual ads to sell everything and having some constraints on what is shown on tv seems to me a good one. Plus I have noticed the girls I know who subscribe to these ideas (hook up with anyone) all seemed to have serious emotional and self-esteem issues.

The funny thing is, I watched a show with my dad last week, filmed in the 80s. There was a lot of nudity, but it was not sexual it was just part of the setting. (It took place in a tribe 100s of years ago). The effect is very different. ( Given this issue I still looked away). Like there is a difference between just the natural human form and purposefully sexualizing it. Odd shift like in the past you could show that, natural nudity, now you don't see that but you see all this craziness I just saw in these commericals, like zooming in on parts etc. (but with small amounts of clothes)

Something I also notice is certain clothes draw attention to certain parts and can be more triggering then nothing. And these commercials use camera angels etc. to draw your eye to certain places and parts. It's kind of hard to describe but I notice when a girl is naked with me, I feel like "wow that is beautiful" but I don't feel like as big of a dopamine rush and it feels very personal. Whereas  clothes that are meant to accentuate a certain part, can actually give me more of a dopamine rush and very much can make it more about the body part and less personal. (  I am talking real life in that instance, of course porn is super impersonal and all dopamine)

Just kind of commentary that there is a difference between the natural human form and the purposeful methodical methods to make things hyper sexual and not at all personal. And that there is a difference between like ewww people's bodies need to be hidden and recognizing overt attempts to be hyper, even unnaturally sexual (advertisement was basically soft core porn... is that how real life works?) in ads tv etc.

Anyways posting helped to make sure that bs wasn't too triggering. Man can't wait for the damn ritalin on monday lol. Staying clean like a part time job lately
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on November 24, 2019, 08:49:42 PM
Man, trying to relax with some comedy. Three commercials in a row, two of three featuring women's bodies super heavily, basically soft core porn. Would have probably been considered porn in like the 50s. Man, I am not anti business or anything, but so much of marketing is such bullshit.

Avoiding this stuff really makes me notice it. It's crazy how many ads feature women's bodies, mind blowing. Such a cheap trick to try and influence us into buying mostly worthless garbage.

Something I also notice is certain clothes draw attention to certain parts and can be more triggering then nothing. And these commercials use camera angels etc. to draw your eye to certain places and parts. It's kind of hard to describe but I notice when a girl is naked with me, I feel like "wow that is beautiful" but I don't feel like as big of a dopamine rush and it feels very personal. Whereas  clothes that are meant to accentuate a certain part, can actually give me more of a dopamine rush and very much can make it more about the body part and less personal. (  I am talking real life in that instance, of course porn is super impersonal and all dopamine)

Just kind of commentary that there is a difference between the natural human form and the purposeful methodical methods to make things hyper sexual and not at all personal. And that there is a difference between like ewww people's bodies need to be hidden and recognizing overt attempts to be hyper, even unnaturally sexual (advertisement was basically soft core porn... is that how real life works?) in ads tv etc.

This is a spot-on reflection. I have definitely seen similar things. Like with clothing and things like that, I have definitely noticed that my attention seems to be drawn/triggered by certain kinds of clothing even more than straight-up porn sometimes. It's weird, but it definitely seems to be by design.

And what you said about hyper, unnaturally sexualized things is true too. In some of what I have read and listened to about addiction, they talk about super-natural stimuli, things that push the same buttons as natural stimuli in life but to an extreme degree. Our bodies are naturally designed to value sugary, salty, and fatty foods for survival reasons, but junk food offers us exaggerated levels of all three and gets us hooked. We are naturally wired to respond to sexual stimuli, but porn (and even advertising these days) give us unrealistic and exaggerated versions of those things that real life can never compete with. It definitely throws a lot of things out of whack, for sure.

Honestly quitting PMO has made me see a lot of value in traditional cultures/values. I was raised around/ exposed to a lot of like idk very liberal arts college stuff. Like anything goes, tradition is dumb rules are dumb, rules about sex are dumb. But I can definitely see what I was taught doesn't seem to work too well for many people. The idea of not using sexual ads to sell everything and having some constraints on what is shown on tv seems to me a good one. Plus I have noticed the girls I know who subscribe to these ideas (hook up with anyone) all seemed to have serious emotional and self-esteem issues.

And I like this though too. People these days like to say that all these "rules" are just cultural, but there might be something deeper to some of them. A lot of the time, I feel like the "very liberal arts college stuff" is just about making people feel comfortable right now without ever really thinking about the long term. It's like I was hearing in the Love Language book today, people can say that they're okay with their partners finding sex outside the relationship, but deep down, nobody really is. Maybe there are some traditional norms that need to be questioned and tweaked, but maybe there's something to them worth paying attention to as well.

Anyway, I'm glad you're still fighting the good fight (and looking away, even when you might call the nudity "okay") Keep it up!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 24, 2019, 10:10:57 PM
Thanks man. I think all of that is on the money. All of the ads and everything are super natural stimulus, very different from natural sexuality.

Speaking of natural sexuality;I used to put thought into this, I never really drank alcohol, a few sips here and there. I think that alcohol is a HUGE part of the hookup culture. I never drank, it is very difficult, without alcohol or drugs, to have sex without connecting with someone. I think connection is part of the human sexual process. And the hookup culture with alcohol and stuff helps to get around that.

Also yeah on the money about the "feel good now" stuff. I think that stuff is a cycle too. That mindset of NOW and no tradition, no responsibility. Feel good now. Leads to life sucking, lots of problems and a huge decrease in ability to control ones actions or get things done. But that mindset, also is coupled often with an external locus of control. The problems are always with the outside world. So as more problems arise from living that way, it only leads to more anger at tradition and the outside world and attempts at forcing the world and standards to change rather than changing oneself.. ( Fat shaming for example- Inability to control eating habits and it now becomes a culture of being fat is cool/ not the fault of the fat person. The world must pretend that being fat is not a choice and tell people they are healthy as they eat themselves to diabetes. - I read about an American who spent time in China and he was shocked that fat people say things like "I am fat because I eat too much".

Anyways not to be too hard on these people, obviously I, like many here have had trouble controlling my actions (pmo for example) but I think it's awesome that we are all here trying to change OURSELVES and remove this addiction and the fetishes that came with it, rather then demanding say the outside world adjust to us. By idk just doing crazy stuff with escorts or demanding girls be more "sexually liberated" or whatever.
Maybe I am being a bit too focused on the outside world and being critical, oh well so long as I get through another day clean lol.


I like that quote from the 5 love languages. Books about open relationships were all the rage awhile back, but in practice it doesn't seem to really work. Man gotta start reading it, but at the same time I have been in that tougher urge period for a few days so not going to be too hard on myself about not being as productive. Tomorrow though, going to aim to be productive in the am, get some momentum going.

Edit: Man, almost forgot about the positive. Speaking of fat shaming etc. lol. I have made my diet a lot stricter, lost 3 pounds or so this week. If I lose 5 more I'll be pretty lean and look pretty good, plus feel good (carrying around extra fat is no fun and not healthy. So I think about 3-4 more weeks of the diet should do it. (expecting the rate of weight loss to be a bit less then the first week). Had a great cardio workout at the gym earlier that felt great too.

Finally: Anyone can fall in the excuses trap. And tough love can be a great cure. One of the best lessons I ever got....

Background: I used to be a high level athlete, but have a good amount of injuries that hurt sometimes and can prevent me from doing some stuff.

A few years ago, I had hurt myself I recovered but was a bit out of shape. I think not working out for awhile had my body all tight and I felt like shit/ all my injuries felt worse. A badass friend of mine, successful in every sense said:

"Bro, you look like shit. You need to start working out and get in shape"

Me( I was in wimpy ass mindset :" Yeah, but I have so many injuries it's tough to work out : (" (Lame-ass pity part)

Badass friend: There are quadriplegics, who are in great shape, way better shape then you. The truth is, everyone is too wrapped up in there own problems to give a shit about your lame-ass excuses.
.....
I started working out again, the injuries felt a lot less bad and I and got in shape. Lol 

Tomorrow yoga and fitness class.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: wecandoit on November 25, 2019, 09:03:55 AM
Quote
Also yeah on the money about the "feel good now" stuff. I think that stuff is a cycle too. That mindset of NOW and no tradition, no responsibility. Feel good now. Leads to life sucking, lots of problems and a huge decrease in ability to control ones actions or get things done. But that mindset, also is coupled often with an external locus of control. The problems are always with the outside world. So as more problems arise from living that way, it only leads to more anger at tradition and the outside world and attempts at forcing the world and standards to change rather than changing oneself..

Definitely. All those unhealthy coping things create, in general, a lack of ability to deal with life. I feel stressed, sad, disappointed etc. I PMO, or drink, or smoke weed, play video games, binge eat, scroll Facebook or Youtube etc. When are we going to learn how to deal with stress, sadness, disappointment and all those things if we run to those unhealthy coping things in the first minute? And this world is full of things presented to you in a beautiful package so you could feel a false sense of escapism. Once we get rid of all the vices, addictions etc. we see the life as it really is and it might get scary in the beginning. We might feel lost, unable to cope. But we adapt. We will develop the necessary skills and we must be sure of that even if now it seems so far away. We will never want to get to a place if we are not certain it exists.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 25, 2019, 11:58:55 AM
For sure, appreciate the comment. Because tough day for me and that's a great reminder. Dealing with the tough stuff without crutches is good for us.


Just got a bit of work done, the most on my own for the last 4 or 5 days, so that's a help.

Realizing that I keep getting myself riled up about not being able to get the Ritalin. I mean, I have done pretty well without it, stayed clean for months without it. Am I saying I am going to stop taking it? No, it seems helpful and I think can help with my consistency and using it when it's helpful. But, I think now I am like making a story in my head like I need it and getting all upset when I can't get it.

Like a few days ago I felt fine, but freaked out like I can't handle life without it, when the pharmacy told me there is a waiting period. It might take even longer. That's okay. I think I forgot that sometimes you have to feel shitty suck it up, get work done and THEN feel better afterward.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 25, 2019, 03:48:50 PM
Got the meds! Man, grateful to have that stuff. Was having pretty consistent sexual thoughts popping up very very consistently. Makes me realize how helpful it is.

Doctor said don't take it everyday, which I like basically use it for tough days. Thinking I'll take it the next 2-3 days to get my mind right and clear of the non stop triggers then take as needed.

Cooking up some good food, seeing family later. Going to plan to do some work late tonight.

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on November 25, 2019, 09:25:32 PM
Once we get rid of all the vices, addictions etc. we see the life as it really is and it might get scary in the beginning. We might feel lost, unable to cope. But we adapt.

This is so true. I'm definitely somewhere between giving up the crutches and fully adapting (aren't we all?). Life is a scary thing, and I have definitely been feeling that lately. I had no idea how much I was numbing myself to with PMO. It's shocking now to realize just how much of life I was really missing because I didn't want to feel uncomfortable emotions. But we do adapt. That's a very hopeful reminder.


Cooking up some good food, seeing family later. Going to plan to do some work late tonight.


Sounds like an awesome place to be! I'm glad you got  your meds too and hope that helps right away.

And I know what you mean about how our culture is wrapped up in ideas that people aren't or can't be responsible for their behavior. Like I understand that my addiction has seemingly made bad decisions for me, but it really does come down to us and a decision to take responsibility for the consequences of our behavior. This past year, I have been working hard at fighting addiction and improving my physical health. Sure, there were probably a lot of environmental factors that led me to make the choices I made, but it's empowering to realize that I can just make different choices. It seems like people are so willing to be powerless in their own lives...how did we wake up? I know it's been mentioned before around here, but what was it that made us all decide to wake up from our numbness and try to take our lives back? It's pretty awesome that we're all working on building something better. (That's the end of my rant, lol)

And it sounds like you're making some good progress these days, all around! Keep it up!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 25, 2019, 10:49:06 PM
Thanks bro! It was a good evening.

How did we all wake up? .... I think we're all just awesome lol. I also notice it seems like most of the consistent posters here, honestly just seem smarter then the average person, more thoughtful. So perhaps more likely to examine our own actions and lives.

Man, Ritalin is great for me. I took it and it basically ended the pretty consistent irritability and constant antsiness and triggers in like 30 minutes or so.

The thing is, it's close to it but it's not a magic pill. I decided to use that feeling of clarity to do a guided meditation that was GREAT. That really got me feeling calm and centered. Then just around when the pill should be wearing off, I did an exercise class. By the end of that I felt still fine, mind clear urges basically gone so decided I don't need anymore for tonight.

Spent some time with family, afterward had tons of energy and did not want to be in apartment, wanted stimulation. So instead of like surfing the internet, walked to a sports bar. Hung out a bit ( I don't drink). Then stopped in another bar on the way home. Ended up talking to the doorman there for like 30 minutes. (He was QUITE chatty lol). I really enjoyed it. I don't drink, but I actually like relaxed loungy type bars. Something to keep in mind as an occasional cool activity. I do notice whenever I go to bars on slow nights I usually end up in coversations with people and really enjoy that. It was nice to go to just hang out, versus when I used to go to bars to "work on my game" with girls and it could be stressful. There were almost no girls in either bar, but I still had a great time. Plus, just hanging out enjoying, is the best way to meet girls there if some ever do pop up.

Still a lil high on energy. I have some books I have really been looking forward to reading, but I just have been watching videos instead.... I already know I feel more focused and happier when reading so how about for tonight, I just read? (What a simple concept). I have a nice solid hour to read and then sleep.

Note: I did not end up getting any work done tonight. No biggie, I already got some work done. Just want to keep myself honest and not just pretend I did not post I would do something.

Tomorrow I have a meeting about a career opportunity, not what I was looking to do, but going to look into it. Going to do guided meditation in morning. 
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: wecandoit on November 26, 2019, 07:51:15 AM
This is so true. I'm definitely somewhere between giving up the crutches and fully adapting (aren't we all?). Life is a scary thing, and I have definitely been feeling that lately. I had no idea how much I was numbing myself to with PMO. It's shocking now to realize just how much of life I was really missing because I didn't want to feel uncomfortable emotions. But we do adapt. That's a very hopeful reminder.

That's what happens with addictions used as a cope. You reach a point where you don't want to continue having the addiction in your life but then you wake up to life. That's why some people go back to porn because it's tough. But I don't want to use anything anymore to escape life, even though it's scary right now.

Quote
And I know what you mean about how our culture is wrapped up in ideas that people aren't or can't be responsible for their behavior. Like I understand that my addiction has seemingly made bad decisions for me, but it really does come down to us and a decision to take responsibility for the consequences of our behavior. This past year, I have been working hard at fighting addiction and improving my physical health. Sure, there were probably a lot of environmental factors that led me to make the choices I made, but it's empowering to realize that I can just make different choices. It seems like people are so willing to be powerless in their own lives...how did we wake up? I know it's been mentioned before around here, but what was it that made us all decide to wake up from our numbness and try to take our lives back? It's pretty awesome that we're all working on building something better. (That's the end of my rant, lol)

I understand what you mean. You know, when you are an addict and this affects your behavior you might get that urge to say "It's not me, it's my addiction." But our responsibility is to work on quitting this addiction. I've been mediocre because of this addiction and it's me first who doesn't like this, before anybody else. It has to come from inside you. You need to stay focused because it's easy to forget the difference between short time pleasure and false escapism and long term "being the best version of me". The latter is harder to accomplish that the former that comes immediately. I feel that this addiction has affected my ability to accept the hard work. When I think about how hard is to do something, I just want to go back to porn and forget about it.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 26, 2019, 03:15:52 PM
No doubt about it^^ the return to real life (daying for example) and the work ambiguity involved can be tough, but so so rewarding.

Case in point: I have not crossed over into pmo fetish fantasy which is bascially a lapse for me as it's so intense. But been fantasizing about sex a lot lately. It's a habit again on many nights and ams. It's soo kuch easier to do that and it's hard to replace it with a new habit at night but important to get it done. I'd rather have a real woman with me at night, but to do that have to change my habits stop this fantasy stuff and be patient.

Anyway: will commit for tonight and tomorrow am to not fantasizing about sex or girls in my bed. I have made good progress lately but gotta stay vigilant and cut that atuff out. Plus I notice when I don't do it for say 3-5 days, much stronger morning wood. At the same time sometimes when i tried too hard to cut out alp thoughts I'd fail then think "fuck it" and that led to the some relapses. So aiming to maintain that balance cut the fantasy way back but don't miss the forest for the trees
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 26, 2019, 04:43:59 PM
Hmmm. A little confused and stressed by a meeting I had today, not sure what to make of it. Noticing I am like compulsively trying to reach friends etc. and getting all riled up. Compulsively checking phone and stuff, not a good place to be. So I guess I will turn to my virtual friends lol.

Grrr hard to describe the situation. I am not too private on here but this might be a little more specific then I'd like to go.

Oh well. I think the long and short of it is, the guy is trying to fuck me over and I should never work with him ever.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on November 26, 2019, 08:13:54 PM
Hey, man, I'm sorry this meeting didn't go well. That's really frustrating. At least you're aware of how it's affecting you and doing what you can to take productive action.

It sounds like you just need to cut ties and run (if you can, which I hope you can). No need to get taken advantage of.

Sorry this happened. I was just catching up on everything that happened earlier, and I was going to comment on how nice it all sounded. I guess all that good stuff still counts, but it's easy to forget when something frustrating happens.

Your virtual friends are here for you! (Even if we're not always the most timely bunch.) I hope you're doing better and staying on this awesome path you've landed on in general.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 26, 2019, 10:58:20 PM
Thanks bro! Yeah, great point that odd event does not change everything.

Just was being annoyed about the situation, feel like I may have not handled it well, worried about someone else involved will think about me etc.

But just now thought to myself. I went out and saw a friend and had a great time for like 3 hours, we hung out I talked to a nice girl and we really enjoyed each others company.

Then I started checking my email again, seeing no answers and worrying so much again (familiar to a few of us). I was so upset over the situation but, now looking it as, in a way this is an opportuntity to learn how to cope.

Simply, stuff like this will always happen in life. Thats not the problem. The problem is the worrying and obsessing over it for hours. And there is a solution to that. Changing this habit. So, one way or another aiming to find a HEALTHY way to just forget about it.
Aim to focus on what I can control.

I am worried I made myself look bad to a friend/mentor and perhaps he won't trust me (he introduced me to the person that the issue is with). Worried that I handled the situation incorrectly. But-> I can't control what he thinks whatsoever. Nor can I control what happened.

I can control: How I spend the evening. 1) Not fantasying about girls as I committed (which will pay off in the future). 2) I can post here and read journals, all good stuff to get me back on track. 3) I can watch comedy or read interesting books. 4) I can focus on the longer term. If I keep moving forward, new opportunities will pop up, there are a ton of them. Gotta remember that.

Anyways, feeling better now. Tomorrow will focus on learning for possible new career path.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 27, 2019, 02:17:37 AM
Man. Just feeling intense self hatred. It can't be rational it doesn't make sense. Such a strong feeling though. I guess it's just part of the addiction.

It's literally "omg I made so many mistakes, I am always going to be a failure, I hate myself I should relapse".

Literally those are almost the exact thoughts. At least written out it is pretty clear it kust come from
The addiction.

Prob will not sleep tonight, don't feel good. That is making me feel so bad too. But also not rational..... will a bad night sleep kill me? Of course not.

Now sucks shit but gotta just get through  it.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 27, 2019, 02:21:18 AM
This awesome girl I met today seemed to like me. I couldn't even remember that a minute ago. It made me think, perhaps this awful, this trick of the addiction could mean awesome things are comig soon.

Shouldn't be so hard on myself. Was so mad at myself for getting excited about possible job, then apl this drama coming from it. Was daydreaming about the job, felt dumb mad at self feeling like I do that all the time.

But hey, if a friend got exited about a job and it didn't  work out, I wouldn't hate them for it. It feels that way but good to at least be aware the feelings don't really
Make sense.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 27, 2019, 02:22:20 AM
Posting like a mad man. But as shitty as I was feeling haven't even fantasized about girls AT ALL. Keeping my commitment, thats got to count for something.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 27, 2019, 10:45:36 AM
Hey gotta celebrate that I kept my commitment, no thoughts of girls last night or this am. : ). Honestly really really happy about that, that boosts my confidence because I know how tough it was.

I was still super worried and stressed this morning, but somehow had some mild underlying happiness because of that accomplishment. Then I posted and browsed here a bit and felt pretty good. Then I got another really stressful text from a work thing and got a bit stressed again lol.

Had to pause post to handle something with that job lol. So this was a sales related job taking place handling stuff on the phone. The interview/ weird situation was a sales thing too. Man, maybe I just need to relax and look at all of this a sign that it's time to get out of sales lol. I have another career opportunity using my mind, it'll take time but I think it could be really gratifying.


Anyways: Renewing my commitment to not about girls/sex in bed tonight or tomorrow morning! I think that cutting that out last night, is part of why I feel much more clear headed today, stressed but just different, sharper and more able to think. Will aim to renew that commitment for tomorrow as well! Looking forward to my mind clearing up more, it hopefully giving me my good mood/days back as well as that solid morning wood back.

Uggghh as I wrote more negative imagination popped into my head. Oh well..... I have a whole day ahead of me. What do I want to accomplish?
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 27, 2019, 12:12:51 PM
More crazy work drama. Oh well, I was in the shower and really was like. "Oh well I did my job the best I could, probably the deal is going to get done, so who care." Then I started over thinking and taking it in.

Well, my initial reaction was a huge win, so I am going to focus on that. I reacted really well, the way I want to, to adversity. That is a hell of a lot better then yesterday. So I am making progress, progress is not linear, but for just one day that would be HUGE progress. So, if I can follow eve 10% of the trajectory between how rough yesterday was and how much better I was able to handle things (at least initially) I couldn't ask for more.

Still a hell of a lot of day ahead of me. I think today calls for some scheduling.

Edit(about an hour later, to stop posting so much lol): So complex situation that had me worried about my reputation. Made a few calls that weren't answered. Honestly though, it's kind of cool that I barely feel anything. I just care a bit less than usual. It's like I don't care but then I sometimes am remembering to worry.

But these moments of basically not giving a shit lol. Are pretty nice. It's not like a depressed woah is me I don't care anymore. I just don't care that much. Someone sent a long email criticizing work I did for friends, to me and those friends. (not super close friends). I basically just ignored that part and replied to what was relevant to the deal. Pretty happy with how I acted, thought friends would be on my side, but called and he didn't answered. But don't care that much.

The guy from yesterday who I am worried about my reputation, I called and he didn't answer. I can almost feel like an impulse to worry and be upset, but I am not too upset.

Putting things in perspective. In both of these situations, I did the best I could. I aimed to be loyal and I think I was. The people involved in both situations are not major friends, I see them idk a few times a year. One is a mentor and very very successful but, I mean I can't control what people think of me.

The take away is I have to learn to be more independent . I can't care too much what people think of me. It just doesn't work. Like right now, I am in my apartment, about to eat some healthy food, then go have a little workout.

Finally, I literally did not even NOTICE this until I finished writting this post. But I have plans to meet up with a new friend to work on a new hobby/career stuff. He WANTS to be my friend, but for some reason I tend to discredit whats easy, people just wanting to be friends hang out or whatever, and focusing on the things that don't work out.

Pretty much whatever happens with these situations it'll be the same.

I won't take the job of the guy that I think I can't trust. So who cares what he thinks?
The mentor/ hook up might not want to be involved with me. But who cares? I appreciate the help I got but at the end of the day it really all comes down to me, he's not a close friend or anything.
The friends who I did work for, live in old city, we only hung out a few times. They were the "usually too busy" type of friends. If they are on my side cool, if not really I am losing next to nothing.

Gotta set some goals think long time, focus on that and not the little day to day stuff that won't matter at all months or years from now.

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on November 27, 2019, 07:55:12 PM
Man. Just feeling intense self hatred. It can't be rational it doesn't make sense. Such a strong feeling though. I guess it's just part of the addiction.

It's literally "omg I made so many mistakes, I am always going to be a failure, I hate myself I should relapse".

Literally those are almost the exact thoughts. At least written out it is pretty clear it kust come from
The addiction.

I'm sure it is the addiction, or at least something related to it. I get feelings like this pretty regularly. We're hardest on ourselves, and our addiction was, in our minds, a pretty good reason to be hard on ourselves.

Even with everything going crazy around you right now, you're sticking with your commitments to recovery and staying connected here, which is a great support to your true goals.

In other words, it sounds like things are a little all over the place and it makes sense that you're feeling down, but you don't need to feel self-hatred or anything. You're doing right by you, and that's so important. I think a huge part of this process is making peace with ourselves (and I know that's easier said than done). Stick with it in the little things, and the rest will fall into place eventually.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 28, 2019, 12:11:32 AM
Happy with myself. Managed to have a really good evening.

Met with new friend to study, we studied together in a cafe at a bookstore. I decided to myself "I really want to do more of this, I'll stay here and study till they close". So after he left I studied two hours more. I pushed myself and really it feels good to be learning and using my mind. I really want to commit to this. It's also cool because having something to learn and push myself in that does not involve people at all, can boost my confidence no matter what others think, plus it's a break from ruminating about myself or about drama.

Something about: "Well, as much as nonsense is going on around me I CAN STILL work hard" just felt really good. Just a lone working hard, learning. Felt great!


In the middle of the studying two guys in line started yelling curses at each other and it was getting really intense, I feel pretty good about how I acted. It got more and more heated like they may end up fighting. So I got up walked over and was able to get them to stop.

It worked but I actually felt a little weird after. Like man maybe I didn't do that confidently enough, but then as the place closed a guy came up to me and was congratulating me and called me the peace keeper and stuff. That was really nice of and cool of him.

One thing I really liked is..... I am often playing scenarios in my head. Of different situations. Like I for better (coming up with good ideas) or worse (imaging stuff that worries me, makes me mad, pmo bullshit) have a very active imagination. One thing I had imagined was this exact scenario. Like I'd imagine two people about to fight and myself breaking it up, haven't thought of it in months but I found myself saying the things I imagined in the past. Things I imagined would work to de escalate a situation and they did, they worked as I expected.

That feels pretty good. And shows me how IMPORTANT imagination is, and how crucial it is to use it for good! Because I literally acted out what I created in my imagination. So I better keep aiming to visualize and imagine good stuff and cutting out bullshit! (I imagine a llooootttt of bullshit). This is a wake up call that I need to focus on this more. Controlling what I fantasize about. Not just sexually. But I have lots of imaginary confrontations and drama in my head, so that needs to go.

Afterward I had a nice convo with a girl, then another in a bar. Decent convos, I wanted a bit more from them, they didn't go anywhere. But I need to remember..... NO LONGER do I talk to girls to try and "do the right steps" to have every single one like me (that never works lol) and be mad if it "didn't work". I can talk to girls. Maybe 5% will be a girl that is enough of a match to even go on a date on, that is FINE. It's okay to just have a fun convo with some girls and expect nothing of it unless SHE EARNS IT. (these girls did not earn it). Gave away interest too easy. But no biggie, always gotta get those reminders in.

Tomorrow: 4 hours of study. I think this study will be therapy for me, give my mind stuff to do and process. Plus it is rewarding and boosting my confidence. Hard diligent work boosts confidence and self esteem and can be fun when you learn something new, get something done or get in that flow state.

I have not forgotten, no fantasy about girls while in my bed tonight nor in the am! 

Edit (to add a few things):
My only worry at the moment was like "wtf am I bipolar?" Comparing how good and confident I feel now compared to earlier..... but oh well it's all part of recovery I guess. Get that (healthy!) dopamine flowing. Plus it was gradual. Study, study more, study more, break up a fight (big confidence boost, feels good cause I think I may have helped those guys avoid a bad situation/ arrest, etc.)

Anyways I came up with an idea and I don't want to forget it.

Visualization has worked well for me. But I get off track with it sometimes. Seeing how cool this was, that I essentially in my mind created a way of acting and what to say that I did almost instinctively in a situation, gets me thinking... I ought to do this more. Visualization is something I do on and off (preferably on). But what if.... I get a little more detailed with it.... not just visualize whatever or the same thing. But actually take the time to map out and plan a visualization program to implement over the course of weeks or months. Take the time to even draw it out and plan different scenarios and qualities I want to visualize in order to help develop them in myself (this works by the way... at least for me). So on paper I can have all sorts of qualities and scenarios mapped out then methodically visualize them/ rehearse them mentally in the way I want.

Weird? Maybe
Outlandish? Maybe.

But hey, it excites me, I have this powerful imagination that REALLY bites me in the ass sometimes, so why not aim to turn it into an advantage and use it? Plus it only takes about 20 min a day to visualize. I spent a lot more time then that on PMO or PMO fantasy or even recently just fantasizing about girls. Can just swipe this cool project in and all that bullshit out..........

Finally just a random thought: Using your talents or "gifts" just feels damn good. Like I know I can work REALLY hard. So I worked hard today and that made me feel good about myself. I know I have analytical ability that I have totally WASTED for years, using it to the best of my ability in this new study feels good. And I have a strong imagination, breaking up that fight and really knowing fully that that was a result of my imagination coming up with scenarios and solutions months ago feels good!

I guess I am rambling but that situation really affirmed me. Affirmed that I am not totally crazy really lol. I have imagined so many scenarios. Like I saw maybe 10 years ago some military show about how to take down a guy with a gun in a way that he can't shoot you/others. I still constantly play all sorts of scenarios out in my head like, what if there is a terror attack how would I take the guy out. Or stuff like "okay I am carrying a glass jar of pickels" if someone comes at me I bet I can throw this at their temple. I should throw it not to hard to make sure it hits and the glass breaks on them.

Or the much milder "okay if two guys are about to fight, what could I say that would deescalate the situation? How would I frame it to make them actually feel badass about not fighting?" <---- Which actually happened.

It's like I am a freaking vietnam vet with ptsd sometimes (I also prefer sitting with my back to a wall) lol. But good to know that at least some of the random shit I think about is relevant.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: wecandoit on November 28, 2019, 09:28:38 AM
Man, you write novels here  :D

Anyway, life is not a linear track. If we feel bad now, it's just a phase. We don't need to PMO to "cope" with it.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Rebooter2019 on November 28, 2019, 12:48:18 PM
Man you seem good in introspection, just watch out not to overthink everything. I have analytical abilities myself and I tend to overthink alot of things. Just be careful!

As for the studying and stuff, I'm happy that you find joy and peace in doing so. Keep at it if it help you. Anything that help without affecting you negatively in the long run is good.

Keep going man, you're making good progress!!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 28, 2019, 05:20:11 PM
Happy thanksgving everyone!
Short time dinner with family soon.

Kept commitment  of 4 hours to study
Kept commitment of not thinking of girls in bed, renewing it for tonight and tomorrow am.

Feeling good!

Working hard is awesome.

Yeah guys I write a lot lol. Had ideas just wrote em here, maybe I'll get a personal
Journal going gain who knows

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 28, 2019, 05:24:05 PM
Rebooted good point! I love analyzing the hell out of things. I have a friend who is similar. So I think it'll be good to have a new career path that involves analysis and logic so I can direct it there rather then over analysis of self.

And yup wecandoit: thanks for the reminder up and down is normal
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on November 28, 2019, 07:17:47 PM
That sounds like an awesome experience that could break up that fight, and it's cool that you're getting out there and talking to girls without getting overly attached to the result.

I think that's a strong advertisement for visualization: you imagined breaking up a fight, and then it actually happened! It's interesting to think about what else you might be preparing for by thinking about it ahead of time.

Overall, it sounds like things are getting back on track. I'm glad things turned around for you (and it's a good reminder that, with all these ups and downs we go through, no down is ever permanent).

Keep killin' it, and happy Thanksgiving!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 29, 2019, 08:23:12 AM
Thanks man! Yup, I seem to be in a better period for sure.
So, I did not keep that commitment last night and did end up fantasizing about girls a bit.... not the end of the world. Just something to watch and do better at next time,
I am happy to report, this is likely the longest period I have gone without full blown fantasizing about porn/ pmo fetishes maybe the second longest, but longest in idk 3-4 years at least. Thats pretty awesome. In that sense I am cleaner then I have ever been. Feels soooo good that those fantasies seem a bit "alien " to me. BUT gotta stay humble and keep this up, be careful and do all the right things to stay this way.

Family around is helpful, getting invited to things often.
Reminder to self: write about confrontation yesterday and wider  principle of boundaries instead of over thinking and getting super mad.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on November 29, 2019, 08:19:17 PM
Stay humble, keep doing the right things, a recipe for success!

Just keep truckin', man!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 30, 2019, 12:47:42 AM
Just got my 4 hours of work done! Didn't "want" to do it, started real late and got the last hour in late, but it ended up fun! Wow can't believe I may have found an actual new passion. Since my injuries haven't been really really into something at the some level, as I was my sports......

Decent day. More drama but handled it better. Moving forward I need to work on less anger and more assertiveness! They have something of an inverse relationship. STILL need to write that story from thanksgiving lol.

Honestly, I think this week is teaching me that I must fear confrontation and setting boundaries less. Not setting boundaries ended up with a huge amount of people hating me, it'd be nicer to have one or two dislike me and not be taken advantage of, then try and be nice the whole way until it's impossible.

Anyway so my friends who totally turned on me, along with someone else I was doing business with, turned out well. So I had curses yelled at me, emails sent criticizing me with curses to my former friends (who ended up turning against me). My whole thing was be the bigger person ignore the nosense. That did not work. It got more and more.

More demands were made of me and threats from all sides. I calmly laid down the law. I sent a voice message to the other business person Basically calmly saying " I don't want to deal with you screaming curses. I have had enough of you trying to cause me problems. I am not sending you that nonsense you demaned. If you keep it up, you are going to have big problems, you have a lot more to lose then me". I also outlined the situation etc. Basically I stopped being "friendly" I stated very firmly essentially "if you keep coming after me I am coming after you".

I sent a voice message to my former friends (who were threatening not to pay me). Outlining how I stuck my neck out for them and did all this stuff that wasn't going to make my money and essentially "well, since you are threatening to not pay me, you are no longer my friend and guess what legally you are required to pay me".

No one responded to my messages except with an email that was pure business essentially finalizing  the deal  and an image of a check for me : )

I have been way too afraid of people not liking me in the past. Like the other situation, where someone tried to take advantage of me... I literally could have very simply sent an email back like "Sorry you are asking me to do a job I just interviewed for; for no pay, if you want me to do that for you, we need to discuss compensation first." Could that have made this person dislike me? Sure. But that person was taking advantage of me, I can't always be afraid of not being friends with everyone. Either they could treat me fairly or dislike me, I need to learn to accept that will happen sometimes.

Instead what ended up happening was. They dislike me and by me bringing someone else into the situation I looked bad and lost another connection. Both situations similar. (I also didn't mention it but got screwed over at a job a few months ago).

Basically I am being a big fat wimp. (There is another word I want to use, I don't care about being politically correct but don't want to trigger anyone lol). Not for getting taken advantage of, but for the fact that the reason it is happening is: I am straight up; Afraid people won't like me. Like if someone is "nice" on the surface and screwing me over I had been afraid to set the boundary and risk they wouldn't be "nice" anymore.

That is exactly what some people want. They act nice on the surface and can screw over people who are afraid of setting boundaries and losing the facade of friendliness at will.

Something to change. At the deepest level it is fear of confrontation and fear of dislike and/or abandonment.

Anyways, grateful I got a lot of good lessons in these last months and I have some SERIOUS changes to make. Increase assertiveness and DECREASE rage. Stay tuned for more of the novel perhaps lol
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on November 30, 2019, 09:19:13 AM
No thoughts of girls last night. Nice, I tried to do what kavirbeh (sorry man I can't spell that) and blueheron were talking about in another thread. Sort of idk not fighting it. And I easily fell asleep. I was shocked when I woke up like "Man, just like that I feel asleep with a clear mind?".

Woke up pre alarm feeling good. Ate left over damn turkey which has me a lil tired now lol. But I guess if I get working I'll wake up and it'll just relax me.

Bout to go do my 4 hour study, may have to break it up a bit. Then yoga, which my body is craving. Been feeling good mostly but no yoga in a few days, knee, back, neck could use it!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on November 30, 2019, 07:48:41 PM
I have been way too afraid of people not liking me in the past. 

Basically I am being a big fat wimp. (There is another word I want to use, I don't care about being politically correct but don't want to trigger anyone lol). Not for getting taken advantage of, but for the fact that the reason it is happening is: I am straight up; Afraid people won't like me. Like if someone is "nice" on the surface and screwing me over I had been afraid to set the boundary and risk they wouldn't be "nice" anymore.

Man, I relate to this. Just this year, I have been trying to learn how to stick up for myself better and not be a total people-pleaser. I'm so worried about people not liking me (even people I don't like) and not making anyone uncomfortable ever. I don't know where that comes from, but I have realized in the last few months that it's something that is holding me back. I'm super proud of you for sending those emails, getting your check, and being your own strongest ally!

No thoughts of girls last night. Nice, I tried to do what kavirbeh (sorry man I can't spell that) and blueheron were talking about in another thread. Sort of idk not fighting it. And I easily fell asleep. I was shocked when I woke up like "Man, just like that I feel asleep with a clear mind?".

And I'm glad to hear that strategy worked! I've been trying it more deliberately today (still dealing with some urges/thoughts). Instead of getting caught up in the thoughts, I just notice them, focus on how it feels, and let it go by. It always does, but it seems too easy to work sometimes so I forget to do it. Thanks for the great reminder from your own experience now that it really does work!

Keep on keepin' on!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: kadeshzelbriel on December 01, 2019, 12:45:46 AM
I ALSO FEEL LIKE MY JOURNEY AROUND PMO HAS BEEN HUGELY RELATED TO MY CONFLICT AVOIDANT / PEOPLE PLEASING TENDENCIES! something feels really profoud about this connection for me right now but i don't know what it is. crazy.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 01, 2019, 09:48:22 PM
Man glad to hear you guys can relate! Hope to continue the discussion tomorrow. Just I am mentally beat. In a good way I think though.

Decent day. Some urges/ desparation for girls for a bit a few hours ago. I felt "desparate" to meet a girl, but really that is just the start of an urge.

Doing pretty well, good studying today but my brain is literally tired lol
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on December 02, 2019, 09:14:43 PM
I felt "desparate" to meet a girl, but really that is just the start of an urge.

Really good catch! This is a tricky one that has caught me many times in the past.

Anyway, get some rest! It's good that you're doing well, and it's awesome that you posted, just to keep the habit alive. Looking forward to catching up more later!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 02, 2019, 10:04:51 PM
Thanks man! Appreciate the perspective, yeah it's been tough getting my novel posts in at the moment lol. But just keeping the habit alive good then can catch up more later.

Decent bit of pmo fetish thoughts popping into head, mild but I should acknowledge them. Also sometimes feeling less motivated about the reboot, I read Bearish's awesome success story he talked a lot about having a strong why, I think I could use some reminding of mine and put in some extra personal development/ motivation work soon.

Last night and this am did fantasize about girls ( But NOT pmo fetish- which is key) but again gotta be careful.

Hmm another urge thought like "Maybe tinder is okay to get some dates"---> That is an early urge thought! All of the related bundle of thoughts of desperation.

A real key though, that's funny. Is I am not really focused on dating now it's not in my mind or plans at the moment. But then I get these random thoughts like "I need a date/sex now" but totally like not grounded in reality. So that TOTALLY shows me it is just an urge. Gotta watch out for this sneaky shit.......


Did my 4 hours study, it was tough and feeling mildly discouraged like "omg I'd do THIS as a job?" but really it is a great option for a job and I must remind myself, this focus and mental riqour is tough NOW, but it will become easier. Simple as that, it's not like very day gets harder. Maybe for a few weeks/months as the initial excitment of something new wanes, but eventually my focus and brain will get stronger and it'll feel easier.

(Hey! that's a nice motivator to keep clean!). I almost forogt that one, the stronger brain with increased focus.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 02, 2019, 10:49:49 PM
Woah, some very dangerous thoughts/ urges popped up.

Was peacefully falling asleep then thought "Oh yeah I really love my pmo fetish, that's just what I am into".
"I should just relapse"
"relapse would be great"

Also feeling a bit sad/ what's the point feeling.

First of all: Man, that first thought. Has led to sooooo many relapses. When has thinking that way led to ANYTHING good? ....?
Even when I was dating a girl who was into some pmo fetishes of mine that we acted on, geuss what happened. MY DICK PROGRESSIVELY STOPPED WORKING. I also didn't enjoy the fetishes nearly as much as I expected. I'd want to do them, not want to in the middle, then desparately want to do them again. It was total craziness, addictive compulsive nonsense. Very little pleasure and no happiness.

Pretty soon, I'll be dating again. And won't it be damn nice to have a WORKING DICK?

Also would relapsing be nice? FUCK NO! I had some challening situations recently and have been very happy that I keep handling them better. I am getting calmer, stronger more confident. Relapse throws that shit out the window!

It goes without saying that is not "great"! That is AWFUL. I have been not having many strong urges, which has me a little spoiled. So gotta re toughen up a bit and remember how to handle them. And crush them. This urge already feels way weaker, but man I gotta stay vigilant.

Well this is good, a wake up call.

1) Put some time into reading the smart book/ working on exercises. I gotta sharpen the sword. Remind my mind of what is important, build that motivation for. (Proactively- Spend at least a few days working on this).
2) I do think I should put a little effort into dating. I can't bring a girl home now (living with family, no room even) but when done HEALTHILY (not in desparate/triggered mode) meeting/ talking to women is great for my recovery and an extra motivator.
I could go on a few dates, that's a nice skill/confidence boost. Plus who knows, women have their own places too..... Could be nice to have some sex soon. It's been AWHILE. I'd like to rewire a bit, to be honest. Before having sex with my future serious girlfriend/wife.



Note: I think something contributing to the urges could be:
I stopped that diet I was on and have basically been skipping meals trying not to eat for periods to lost weight. This is dumb. I have heard about "intermittent fasting" and stuff but when I have done it got sick all the time, felt like shit and it led to RELAPSES. No real justifiable reason for me doing it now. I think that's big part why I am more tired and seems to be highly correlated for the days with these strong urges.
Message received. No more of that shit. I'd like to lose a few more pounds but that is the WORST way to do it and recovery comes first. Priorities. Just ate an orange already feel better.

NO MORE skipping eating. (just to say it again). Guys I think I need to start posting a bit when I get ideas to not eat. It's like a self sabotaging habit. I know it fucks me up and I make the conscious decision to do it.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 03, 2019, 09:59:21 AM
Well glad I posted, after posting I journaled a bit. (Just accepted that I was not ready to sleep yet.... trying to fall asleep mid urge was a BIG problem in the past). I enjoyed the journaling, haven't done that in quite awhile. Realized that basically I wasn't ready to fall asleep, I felt bored/craving excitement. I think that may contribute to urges/ the addiction a bit too. So it's good to find a healthy outlet.

I went for a walk and listened to some music, then stopped in a bar for a bit and played games there (they had the basic stuff like skeeball etc). Got to sleep later then planed and woke up later too but that is FINE.

Still thinking about girls a lot, but avoided falling into pmo fetish fantasies, it was cool that after doing all that, I had a brief fetish thought pop into my head and automatically thought "What is that? Why would I like that?". So that is AWESOME. I can look forward to that being how I react nearly all of the time in the future.


Lessons:
1) Urges, not the end of the world. I had an urge and didn't sleep as early as planned. I actually ended up having fun. Got some stuff done etc. So when can't sleep, just go do something.
2) Like the last few lines above mentioned. Look forward to when as the pmo bs becomes less and less appealing.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: squid on December 03, 2019, 10:20:19 AM
Good lessons dude, keep up the good work!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Rebooter2019 on December 03, 2019, 12:28:20 PM
Yep it's called learn to live with urges and cravings! Once you learn to live with them and not giving in, it become so much easier!! Because they will always be there every now and again. Just not as strong and/or as often as it use to be!

You're doing great in your Recovery. Keep at it and stay strong, my friend!!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on December 03, 2019, 06:37:59 PM
Woah, some very dangerous thoughts/ urges popped up.

Was peacefully falling asleep then thought "Oh yeah I really love my pmo fetish, that's just what I am into".
"I should just relapse"
"relapse would be great"

Also feeling a bit sad/ what's the point feeling.

Man, this is more or less where I have been for the last week or so. It's weird, it's like at this point my brain is forgetting all the bad things that came with PMO, and it's like, "Hey, do you remember PMO? We haven't seen them in such a long time. We had a good thing going there for a while. Wanna see what they're up to?"

Then I say something like, "No, remember how they treated us badly all the time?"

And then my brain will say something like, "Okay, but you feel terrible right now anyway, so your new thing must not really be working out. Let's just go see what PMO is doing right now."

And then I just say "NO NO NO NO NO" Or something like that.

It's a weird place to be because it's not really the kind of emergency urges that I felt early on, but it's more of a nostalgic thing, like a part of me wants to relapse, doesn't have to relapse but wants to. Instead of demanding a fix, my addicted brain is just sort of persistently and politely requesting one. It kind of catches me off guard because that's not the approach I'm used to, so it gets a little trickier to realize that those thoughts are the addiction talking and not me.

The last couple of days have been a lot better than last week, but the same kind of thing is still there in the background. Brains are weird, and addicted brains are weirder.

I guess all I'm saying is that I know where you're coming from, and it will pass (it always does). Definitely a good idea to remind yourself of your "why" and to keep pressing forward, keeping yourself healthy in every aspect of life.

We've got this!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 03, 2019, 10:42:02 PM
Thanks man! Well, glad to know I am in good company with these feelings. More of the same tonight.

Perhaps a bit stronger. Just was thinking about not staying clean a moment ago...
Luckily caught myself. Good stuff is around the corner.

Man, I bet I'll be on some awesome dates before the year is done and have a girl I am dating by mid-spring. That'll be nice.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 04, 2019, 05:19:46 PM
Very nice day so far. Saw a friend had a great workout. Was a bit easier on self today but in a healthy way. Doing healthy activities.

Had a lil random urge pop up just now, not really j urge just an image of CRAZY pmo fetish thing. But all good. I am in a pretty good spot today.

Edit: Almost forgot. I was totally free of fantasy last night and woke up with good morning wood! Was awesome there is like an almost perfect coorelation between not fantasiZing about sex at all and morning wood....
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on December 04, 2019, 10:28:25 PM
Thanks man! Well, glad to know I am in good company with these feelings. More of the same tonight.

Perhaps a bit stronger. Just was thinking about not staying clean a moment ago...
Luckily caught myself. Good stuff is around the corner.

Man, I bet I'll be on some awesome dates before the year is done and have a girl I am dating by mid-spring. That'll be nice.

I love this: good stuff is around the corner. It has to be! We're taking charge of our lives and becoming better people. There's no way good stuff isn't coming our way, even if we have to deal with these annoying urges. Part of me wonders if our addictions know they're losing now, and they're just trying to hold on before they're done for.

Glad today was better and free from the same kind of fantasies/urges! That's a gift for sure, and here's hoping for more days like that for both of us!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Non-Dual Adventurer on December 05, 2019, 03:19:49 PM
Hey man, I can totally relate to those feelings of feeling like a relapse might be great right now. After that wisdom-onslaught on my journal which you were a part of, I've been looking at it differently now. It's definitely a passing thing, and if thoughts come, that's okay, we don't actually need to act on them but it's hard because we want to ignore them but we also don't because we feel down and need a pick-me-up. P has always been our pick-me-up, but it can't be anymore. I guess until we get more balanced, these things will crop up from time to time. Main thing is to keep up with the self-love and avoid any scenarios which would facilitate relapse. I had a relatively close shave today because of thoughts of peeking but thanks to you and others, I read back through what people had said on my journal and my motivated responses and regained motivation and resolve.

Keep up the good fight, mate, you're doing great and your insights are spot on!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: wecandoit on December 05, 2019, 04:12:44 PM
Hey man, I can totally relate to those feelings of feeling like a relapse might be great right now. After that wisdom-onslaught on my journal which you were a part of, I've been looking at it differently now. It's definitely a passing thing, and if thoughts come, that's okay, we don't actually need to act on them but it's hard because we want to ignore them but we also don't because we feel down and need a pick-me-up. P has always been our pick-me-up, but it can't be anymore. I guess until we get more balanced, these things will crop up from time to time. Main thing is to keep up with the self-love and avoid any scenarios which would facilitate relapse. I had a relatively close shave today because of thoughts of peeking but thanks to you and others, I read back through what people had said on my journal and my motivated responses and regained motivation and resolve.

Keep up the good fight, mate, you're doing great and your insights are spot on!

Yeah, man, this was definitely my problem. What I used to numb with porn came back to hit me in the head. I felt like it was just a matter of time until a relapse. Okay, maybe I could've gone on but I got depressed in the evening going to work and it was very tough to handle. I came home in the morning, woke up after 4 hours with crazy craving for porn. It's fucking hard. Maybe I could've continued without the night shifts at work. It's one thing to get depressed in the evening at home and another to get depressed, go to work, function subpar and stuff like that. It bothers me even more.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 05, 2019, 06:48:07 PM
Thanks so much for the support everyone! Kind of a tough day with some
urges but great reminders from you all. I can have those feelings and let then pass.... good things are around the corner and urges are bad but acting on them is worse!

Regardless of feeling, good things are around the corner! Met a nice girl the other day looks like a date is likely to happen soon. Looking into a job thing tomorrow and have a few possible
Job leads. All this good shit can happen soon. Just gotta stay clean for it!

Tonight going to do some writing, plan remotivate myself,  as late night is my only time I can be alone really.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on December 05, 2019, 08:41:46 PM
Congratulations on the soonish almost-date! That's an exciting development!

Good idea to find some quiet time to be alone, to write, and to remotivate yourself. I got out a sheet of paper the other day that I'm just taking random notes on to start thinking about goals for the new year. Every once in a while, I think it's a good thing to sit down and gather thoughts on paper to reassess where you are and where you're headed.

Just keep rounding the corner!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 06, 2019, 08:31:48 AM
Thanks man! Sorry haven't gotten totally updated on everyone's journals... I want to say I have been busy, I have but I also could have MUCH better time management. So I want to get that more under control.

Just a few quick things to expand on later.
1) Still want to comment more on the people pleasing thing.
2) I developed a bit of a morning routine (waste less time!)
3) Considering STRONGLY internet break (stop wasting so much damn time) - It would allow utility, posting here and things involving other people (watching a show here and there with family).
4) Strongly considering a goal of cutting out all sex fantasy for a time, I fantasize=no morning wood. Clear headed=morning wood. I think we talked about complacency in another journal, I can relate. I am there now a bit. Things aren't so bad, but how much better will they be when I clean up further?
5) Double down on what you said blue.... the writing. Just journaled a bit soooo much more clear headed.
6) Oh yeah, read an amazing quote I'd like to share with you all later.

Anyway, solid morning so far. Short time, catch up later
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Rebooter2019 on December 06, 2019, 12:40:53 PM
Thanks man! Sorry haven't gotten totally updated on everyone's journals... I want to say I have been busy, I have but I also could have MUCH better time management. So I want to get that more under control.

Don't worry for the posting on people's journals! Sure it help and it's highly appreciated when you do... but don't feel bad when you can't. Your recovery pass before everything, because you can't be of anyhelp if you're not on track yourself ;)

That being said, I'm happy for your most probable date with the girl you've met! That's a really good news :)
Plus, I support everything you've set as goal. They will all move you forward in life and recovery! They will help you to be happier as well, you'll spend your time in a more meaningful way which in the end will fulfill you!

Keep going my friend.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on December 06, 2019, 07:25:20 PM
Not a problem! Life gets busy, and there's nothing wrong with sometimes not being the best at time management. It happens.

What matters is that you're still thinking and living in the right direction (it really sounds like there is no good reason to let those fantasies stick around).

Definitely interested to hear more about people pleasing and the quote you found.

Keep on going!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 06, 2019, 09:18:28 PM
Thanks guys! I had a new thought insight, but let me post the quote first!

I may have mentioned the book "Man's Search For Meaning" By Viktor Frankl. Viktor Frankl was a psychologist who came up with a new form of therapy the premise is that the most important thing for man is MEANING. He is also no ordinary psychologist. He developed his theories from his experience surviving a Nazi Concentration camp and discovering that his wife parents and daughter had all died and were certainly starved and tortured....  this dude when through some stuff he's a credible source..... Anyways the quote, is about responsibility and how taking responsibility gives us meaning, it is advice to take more responsibility:

"Live as if you were living already for the second time and as if you had acted the first time as wrongly as you are about to act now!"

Man that is cold, you basically do a thought experiment seeing yourself in the future regretting how you fucked up in the past (actually the present) and now here in the present you have the opportunity to change the past!

Been using this technique a bit lately man is it motivating.

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 06, 2019, 09:22:59 PM
The thought I was having is: Reading and posting in non-dual's journal had me thinking about using negative motivation, avoiding the bad. That's what I need now!

I am in the "Well things are pretty good/not so bad" mindset. Just compacently fantasizing about girls pretty often. FUCK THAT. Just thinking positive is not enough to motivate me to quit that. Cutting that shit out is uncomfortable, I need motivation for that.

I gotta remember that in the past that shit led to relapses. That I have a dating prospect and that doing that may make my dick not work! I gotta really remember the shit times of losing girls and opportunities. I lost a good part of a decade to this shit, it's not a game.

Will expand on the other stuff (people pleasing!) and the rest for sure as well.
No internet today (other then opening it on phone without thinking! Being pissed and closing it (thats a sign for sure had to cut it).
Got a great book to read tonight.
Commiting to going to this nice lounge my friend works at tomorrow, I keep putting it off. Now it's a commitment I can see him and chat with some girls (in moderation) and socialize. If no one can come with me, so be it.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Rebooter2019 on December 06, 2019, 11:12:04 PM
The thought I was having is: Reading and posting in non-dual's journal had me thinking about using negative motivation, avoiding the bad. That's what I need now!

I am in the "Well things are pretty good/not so bad" mindset. Just compacently fantasizing about girls pretty often. FUCK THAT. Just thinking positive is not enough to motivate me to quit that. Cutting that shit out is uncomfortable, I need motivation for that.

I gotta remember that in the past that shit led to relapses. That I have a dating prospect and that doing that may make my dick not work! I gotta really remember the shit times of losing girls and opportunities. I lost a good part of a decade to this shit, it's not a game.

Will expand on the other stuff (people pleasing!) and the rest for sure as well.
No internet today (other then opening it on phone without thinking! Being pissed and closing it (thats a sign for sure had to cut it).
Got a great book to read tonight.
Commiting to going to this nice lounge my friend works at tomorrow, I keep putting it off. Now it's a commitment I can see him and chat with some girls (in moderation) and socialize. If no one can come with me, so be it.

Everyone is different. Some people only need to see the positive other the negative. Some need a mix of both to get out of the vicious cycle that is an addiction. In anycase, you should do what you think is best for you! I know on my part that positive never helped me, but seeing myself never being able to correctly fuck a woman... let my tell you that it fucking motivate me to quit that shit!!!

I've lost opprotunities and I use it as fuel to keep going in the reboot! So try the to think about the possible nagative when you got urges or cravings! They've always calm the fuck down my brain!

Yeah, just go out and chill everyone need that every once in a while. It's a occasion to see a friend as well! You'll most probably have fun!

Stay strong buddy :)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 07, 2019, 08:27:56 AM
Thanks bro! I think you are on the money remember the negative, NEVER BEING ABLE TO FUCK A WOMAN PROPERLY. Is so key, I lost so many opportunities as well. I put a lot of effort getting good with women. The thing that stood between me and a phenominal dating/sex life was the PIED and pmo bullshit. It certainly effected my career as well. Focusing on that is a big motivator...

On that note, I thought about this stuff a bit last night and went to bed with no thoughts of women. Had some pmo dreams though. Woke up feeling pretty bad. But, this is all okay.

I was just thinking about it..... I had been doing pretty well, in a sort of homeostasis. But now I want to improve further and get cleaner, and perhaps this will take some effort, some more negative motivation and it will be a bit uncomfortable.

It's like losing weight a bit, it's pretty much always uncomfortable, it's a move from homeostasis. So the same deal here, I am furthuring my level of "clean" so I may end up a little bit back in on the grind mode.

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 07, 2019, 03:37:08 PM
Doing pretty good, visited family. Was supposed to have place to myself to get work done but sister ended up home sick. We hung out a bit then it got a little heated, not too much. But anyways, just want to post to keep self on track. This is a lesson  I guess too. Getting work done in same apartment with sister here is not the best plan..... Next time I'll hit up a cafe.

I wanted to post like "oh I'll study harder when I have a place I can be alone to work." But that's just not taking responsibility. I can go to starbucks EARLY get a table to my self and study for 4 hours. Just like I did MULTIPLE times earlier this week. So tomorrow I'll get hours of studying in.

Edit: A bit frustrated like where did the time go? I sort of feel like the day was wasted.... What did I do today? I think I spent it with my father then talking to sister. Which is okay, but they are not the most positive people, so the relationship is important of course. But spending like an hour listening to my sister talk about how she hates our mother, is not a great use of time. (My sister really needs psychological help, our mother, my mom has been an amazing mother and nothing but nice to both of us).

Honestly I think I am just drained after being exposed to all that, gotta avoid the sister more. And recharge myself with something positive.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on December 07, 2019, 08:23:23 PM
Man, I was listening to Man's Search for Meaning just a few months ago! It's crazy how we're all finding our ways to similar places as we push through recovery. I didn't remember that quote, but it's a powerful one for sure.

That "not so bad" homeostasis is a tricky place to be. I think I'm feeling the effects of that right now, and I think I'm being a little complacent if I'm brutally honest. It's a good reminder to stand up straight and keep fighting the fight.

But it sounds like things are still going generally well for you, and that's awesome. Just keep it up!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 08, 2019, 12:47:29 AM
Man, that's wild! You are right crazy how the recovery brings us to the same place.

Yes, just was falling into the "not so bad" mindset. Honestly for me the cure is ..... a little bit of negative motivation.

Case in point, I just had a really good night. I feel really good, a little too high probably. I went to a club, had a nice convo with attractive girls. Then a girl came up to me and started dancing in a very attractive/triggering way. Finally I met a nice girl on the way home (more on that later).

I feel like "high" about all the fun I had and the image of the girl's body part while she danced (I didn't even remember her face until thinking about it as I posted this!). I feel good and am "enjoying" thinking about it. BUT I need a little negative motivation. It's all fun and games, things are going in the right direction. But imagining that body part is HARMING my brain, it's harming my erections. It is a fantasy. It will lead to my dick working less well, me having less ability to connect with women. Perhaps to my dick not working at all and isolation. Quit, you enjoy fantasizing about that girls body part? Well if you do that, how will you like eventually really getting into an intimate situation with that girl and your dick being basically turtled up in your body and you feeling like you're in an alien world? The girl then leaves, us both feeling like shit. SO back on the grind. I had a good night, but time to stay clear headed, read and zzzzzz.
I feel like wins are around the corner, but I MUST MUST stay humble!

Anyway, the last girl I met I am real happy about. i was on the subway home, chatted with the girl. She was super friendly, I really liked her. She is visiting, leaves 8:00 am. Invited me to see a touristy thing with her tonight. I really felt like I wanted too. But DECLINED. Because I wanted to get to bed at a decent hour. Not going to try and suck up every last morsel of female company or .1% chance of sex. Love wins like this, as for me these are major signs that I have FOR SURE changed and maturated.

It was a win-win. I acted properly. Let her know that she was really cool and I really did want to hang out (made her feel good), made the right choice for my life. AND it is motivation for how awesome dating could be, it was really cool to experience that feeling of liking and connecting with a real live girl. For the first time that intensely in a LOONNNGGG time. I wanted to write, Man is it great! But don't want to get too high again. I feel good but don't want to feel too good. The good feelings come, by being humble and investing in the right actions upfront, the results come later. If I want more results, time to stay humble and take the right actions.

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 08, 2019, 02:07:56 PM
Feeling in decent spirits but a bit weird physically. Very tired physically, body a bit achy and a bit of a headache. Have done very little today, mostly resting. But in a healthy way, reading, napped ate healthy. There is a little meetup I can go to, which I guess I"ll do and just won't stay too long.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on December 08, 2019, 06:23:28 PM
Sounds like some good stuff, catching yourself in fantasizing about a real girl (we can be too quick sometimes to give ourselves a pass if it involves real people).

Even better, you had a great interaction with a nice girl and stood up for yourself instead of people-pleasing by choosing to go to bed. As someone (probably you) said when I made a similar decision to leave a party early instead of stick around to appease a girl, "Boss move"

I'm glad you're feeling good even if you're feeling weird physically. I'm all for a day of healthy resting. Take the chance when you can get it!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 08, 2019, 08:48:13 PM
Thanks man! Just had a nice convo with a girl and she suddenly left. I was a bit bummed. But really she was interested but not all in, once again i over invested emotionally wayyy too fast.

It's okay. This is part of life, but good to catch it as much as possible. Still glad I talked to her I was pretty intimidated and hesitated but we ended up having a good conversation. Took some of my own advice, just talked to her in the easiest possible way.

Edit: I notice more and more titles of journals in this forum and the other age group ones, referencing pmo fetishes in the title. This can be trigger for guys and is totally unacceptable on this website. Pleas guys let's report these  titles to mods and inform the posters  so they can be changed. This is a great example of not being overly nice. Sure we want to help those guys but the health and usefulness of the overall community comes first.

It's one thing to have it in journals we can avoid, in titles we can't avoid while usung the foun is totally another.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 09, 2019, 08:20:30 AM
Hmmm, evening not as good as I wanted. Got to sleep but something woke me in the night and I was fantasizing about this girl I am going on a date with. Really need to be careful as this time I was feeling urge to mo. I notice sometimes when trying to stop part of the behaviour, not keeping the commitment itself can be triggering or perhaps it's a sort of rebound effect. The urges from the fantasy were stronger.

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Non-Dual Adventurer on December 09, 2019, 12:52:40 PM
Hey quit, reading your past few posts I now think I have a better idea of what you mean by negative motivation. It was hard for me to find that negative motivation until the other day when my dick didn't work with my wife. The 'it's not so bad homeostasis' has definitely been a thing for me, so thanks for noticing it and pointing it out. Some people are good at harnessing negative motivation for good. Sometimes I'm just negative, and there's no motivation to be found whatsoever. In these moments, turning my self-hatred into motivation seems impossible, really. I guess I'll start trying this next time I feel the urge to relapse. I do remember that in my over 3 months streak ages ago, negative motivation was a factor but not the only type of motivation that I used to get through. It was definitely the 'it's not so bad' complacency that led me back to PMO in the end so there's definitely wisdom in what you say.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 09, 2019, 01:58:14 PM
Awesome  glad it's helpful. It's a mix I think.
Appeciate the post! Was struggling just now but that got ne out of it a bit.

Emotions all over today, powerfully. Just reminding myself, it'll pass.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 09, 2019, 02:34:48 PM
Man I miss goals. Been so focused on day an hour of this four hours of that. Today was really struggling, but set a little goal to get an actual peace of work done. Man my focus was much stronger when I had a real goal to aim for, got it done and man do I feel better. This is a change I prob want to make. Instead of "study this many hours a day". I think I am going to set a goal for getting a portion of this course done. (you have to get all the answers right to move forward, so I won't just "rush through". I feel much better, I need goals in my life again and this is a nice small start.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 09, 2019, 03:14:32 PM
Man posting on here listening to other people's stuff helps me reflect on my own shit soo much.

Have the date tonight, real nice girl and I am like thinking about reasons to cancel. That's some addiction bullshit lol. Like the brain wants to fight the moving toward reality. Anyways, looking forward to the date!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 09, 2019, 05:25:01 PM
Just checking myself:

Man, my damn brain. I feel better, had a nice workout. But my thoughts are kind of wild. Let me see if it is even possible to write them out in a way that makes sense.

I have this date setup. I realized I had another thing planned today (but not solid plans, just something I wanted to do). I considered canceling, but don't like being canceled on so don't want to myself.

Now the weather is bad, I tend to worry dates will be cancelled. The combination of that being my default mindset and the weather had me CERTAIN this girl would cancel. I was furious,  I thought of how dumb I was for not cancelling and that in dating you are the "predator or the prey". Now let me remind you THE DATE HAS NOT HAPPENED YET.

This all has happened in my brain, I convinced myself for sure this girl would cancel and already got mad and was like trying to change my world view based on it..... need I remind myself that all day my emotions and thoughts have been out of wack......

For now, I'll aim to stop thinking about it, enjoy some yummy food. Head over, if the off chance it's cancelled, chat up some girls at the date spot then go hang with family.

More likely, she comes and I'll have fun : ). Get some good date practice in. Even this like looking "forward" to the date in my crazy way, is practice for me to basically get my shit together lol.

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 09, 2019, 05:39:18 PM
Holy hell what the fuck is wrong with my emotions lol. Just keeps returning to a default state of mild or moderate up to strong turmoil. You guys know when I post my novels some shit is going on lol.

But hey, I am on the path. Got the basics done today, if the date happens I am going to do my damned best to have a good time. If it doesn't I'll go see family I guess and do my damned best to have a good time. Then tomorrow I'll do my damned best to have a better day, and if it isn't I know that'll pass eventually
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on December 09, 2019, 09:57:21 PM
Hang in there, man! These emotions take us on a wild ride. I definitely wonder if the addiction isn't actively fighting for its survival sometimes by trying to trip us up when we're doing real things.

I think you're right not to cancel, and I hope she returns the courtesy. Whatever happens happens, and you know how to bounce back from it (if there's anyone here who I think could bounce back from a bad/canceled date, it's you!)

Good that you're getting back to a goals-mindset too, I think. Even if they're not crazy ambitious or anything, a little sense of direction is probably a good idea.

Rooting for you! Hope it all works out tonight!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 09, 2019, 11:24:16 PM
Goddamn a bit of a cluster fuck.

So, the girl showed up to the date. I really liked her everything was great. Super sweet, I thought everything was really good. Sweet quite girl, seemed what I am looking for.

We want to a bar to sit. Started cuddling. Talk got intimate. Long story short.... turns out she is all into some of my core/main pmo fetishses. Christ. I started talking about them and getting really into it. We talked about all these scenarios.

Very triggered. Obviously the above is a fuck up, it's like some kind of relapse. I basically tried to engage in this stuff. Did not expect this.

I told her that I have compulsion issues and may not want to see her again. She accepted it and said she just wanted to be friends. Then later we kissed and I told her she was going to be my girlfriend. Talk about fucking insanity.

The girl also said she discovered her sexuality very early and experimented with other kids when she was 4 or 5. (She is from third world country). I think the right decision is probably to cut ties.

Some of my emotions say, wow you like this girl and she has the same fetishes! You don't want to miss this opportunity.

BUT, I have BEEN THERE DONE THAT. I did engage in some of the fetishes with a girl, it was a disaster, my dick stopped working. It was horrible. My mind is like "omg I can't cut ties with her, we had such a good connection and she'll be so upset" . But 1) Recovery comes first and 2) Better to do it now then ruin my damn self, get her invested then kill it.

All in all, holy fuck I did not expect this situation, I certainly did not act as I want. My brain is still telling me like "woah don't miss this! You really like her, you'll regret cutting off a girl who is into this same stuff!". Actually I have done so before, and I only regret it during RELAPSES.

Let me play the movie to the end. I date this girl, she is older then I want. She seems totally unstable. The girls who have wanted to engage in these pmo fetishes HAVE NEVER been stable. Like something has to go wrong in life to be into this shit. Anyways, I could feel the confidence and badasses drain out of me as we discussed this stuff. So I'd date her, engaging in this bullshit would drain the fuck out of my confidence. MY DICK WOULD STOP WORKING. And my brain would be fucked up and I'd fucking fail at life. Also dumbass brain can rationalize it's real life with a consenting partner so it's okay. BULLSHIT: It would 500000% lead to porn relapses as well (just TALKING about it made it hard not to relapse).

Okay, it hurts a bit. But I am going to choose my recovery and you guys, my E-friends over this girl. And end it right now:


Done. Nice goodbye text, blocked and deleted number.

Part of me it hurts. Feeling like "man I really liked her" but recovery fucking comes first! That shit could have ruined my life. I am going to look at it as, man I just cut out a potential relationship to ensure my recovery now that is BADASS!

I feel back to myself. Back on track. This was an unexpected situation. I need to be more cautious in the future. This may be rare, but it happened so I'd be a fool not to be ready for a similar situation in the future.

I don't know the full criteria but I do know if a girl expresses interest in my PMO fetishes, she must be immediately disqualified from consideration of any further contact or dating. Not because she is a bad person and not even because she wouldn't be a great girlfriend. Because it's fucking dangerous, that shit would ruin me eventually. It's out of my life, it has to be.

I want to remind myself of a vision. An awesome emotionally healthy girl, an amazing relationship, we have tons of fun, we have vanilla connecting sex, tons of intimacy it's great support and it's a 10x better experience then any of this addiciton bullshit ever was. Cutting this influence out just moved me closer to my goal.

I was imperfect on this date, correcting the problem was painful. But I am proud. This was one of my closest calls ever and I got through it. 
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 09, 2019, 11:44:31 PM
Brain still processing and reeling a bit. Christ that girl was talking about some crazy shit. Even stuff I never watched in PMO. I am not happy about that, worried it could lead to future triggers/fantasy. So I gotta be vigilant.

Thinking for the future: When conversations get sexual: Literally have a fucking predetermined script/phrases to use to redirect the fuck away in case triggering stuff pops up and ESPECIALLY if the girl starts bringing up anything remotely resembling the PMO fetish stuff. Just have  a script to shut that shit down redirect and remove and not let it escalate like it did tonight.

Still reeling from this a bit. A range of emotions. Regret. Sadness. Triggered/Urge. But let me remind myself. LITERALLLY there is an awesome girl I will be dating in the future. My decision to cut this other girl out and get through these urges however I need, is allowing me to meet that future girl.

This is literally true. Had I not disengaged fully. Inevitably, my dick would stop working and in other ways I'd be incapacitated from meeting girls/dating. So when I meet the future awesome girl or girls. I have this decision to thank!

Let's plan for tomorrow being a fucking badass day! Going to set specific goals for getting things done.

Finally, not all the time with the girl was fetish BS. We got a bit touchy before that and some of it was awesome! The vanilla stuff the intimacy was soo much for satisfying and confidence inducing then the fantasy fetish talk. I will aim to delete all that from my memory as best I can.

Also: This was particularly crazy but, I'll remind myself. Long periods without rewiring with real women, nearly always lead to the first few times being super triggering and having me go off into fantasy land. This time it just went off the rails a bit more and with a partner. Next time will be a bit better, next time better then that. And in the future after maybe half a dozen or a dozen rewiring kissing/ cuddling sessions. I'll be able to enjoy it, clear headed in it's own right. It's all part of the work and the process. Also let me be 1000% honest. I asked the girl what she was into seuxally. HOPING it'd be the pmo fetish stuff. I do this often early in rewiring. Definite mistake. It is my job to fix that on future dates. Plus the type of girl I am looking for would probably be VERY off put by conversation like that on a first date.
 
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 10, 2019, 12:09:19 AM
Fucking hell strong urges. Tried to get in bed. Man a strong urge to fanasize about that girl and MO. SOOOO glad I deleted the info. The addicted brain had I not deleted it would probably take over.

As it is now, I feel all these bs feelings. Sadness, loneliness then have the images pop in my head of this girl. But it's good I then feel bummed about knowing I'll never see her again. But then it's like, man if I fantasize about her or MO about her I will feel like such shit. That will be the worst regret ever (my addict self is DEVASTATED at deleting this girl). So it's like many I don't want to feel how horrible that is, so I won't do it.

Thanks for being here everyone, had I not posted and thought of you guys all here I prob wouldn't have deleted the number right away and if I didn't I'd prob be relapsing right now.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 10, 2019, 12:15:35 AM
My wimp brain is like "Omg how did this happen, in such a tough emotional day with urges already what are the chances of this (the girl being the most triggering person I have ever encountered)  :-[.

At the end of the day who gives a shit. It happened cause of random chance or who knows what. Shit happens. There's black magic here. Rough day, urges. Then as a combo of my fucking up and luck ran into a massive urge. Don't know why all this happened at once, prob random chance. Don't care. But I do know I am going to get through the urges because I am a baaadddd man. (like the way muhamed ali used to say it). Plus I have the support of the forum and it helps. It may be a novel but man I'll post 10 new pages in my journal if I have to tonight.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Non-Dual Adventurer on December 10, 2019, 12:35:00 AM
Sounds like you’ve been having a rough time dude. I’m sorry to hear that. The stuff you talk about reminds me so much of an ex I had.

*trigger warning*
I was 21 and she was 32 at the time. Big age gap. She was amazing, pretty, tattooed (one of my P fetishes) and into a whole bunch of shit that were also PMO fetishes of mine. She was also a P addicted. We shared a lot about it and had sex, sometimes connecting sometimes raunchy, but it largely healing. We talked about P addiction a lot and it helped as she was also trying to recover. She had also had some of her earliest sexual experiences at a young age, and an absent father. You know the deal. Anyway, it ended - I moved away to another country as she didn’t want to move in with me and didn’t want to ever get married again or ever have kids. I needed to experience life elsewhere and so didn’t stay on at uni to do a masters but moved away instead. It had reached its natural end.

I spent several months pining. I think I really did fall for that girl - I really loved her. We were only together like 6 months but it was super intense. It was directly after a period of 100 days clean for me and my sexuality was raging. With her I O’d but didn’t watch P or MO for another 6 months after that. I wonder whether I damaged my brain by engaging in that type of sex with her.  It was pretty awesome but it wasn’t to last.

Now I had met my wife and she’s happy and balanced. The truth is, sometimes my addicted brain still pines for my ex. It still pines for the naughty sex stuff. It’s all bullshit.

After I moved away I began to feel lonely and slowly and gradually at first, fell back into a PMO habit that I’ve been unable to kick ever since. I think I was probably PMO free for a year in total.

You make me realise now that maybe the fact that I had some of those experiences in real life maybe strengthened PMO’s grip over me. I never looked at it like that but I think it could be true. I mean, I never experienced ED with my ex but it was extremely exciting sex. Grr, this has made me conflicted and now I’m a bit confused because what you’ve said has drastically put into question my perspective on this whole relationship. I thank you though, because clearly I needed it.

I don’t have all the answers for you with regard to the type of relationship you need. I, like many, have been brainwashed by the modern anything goes ‘sex positivity’ that has no boundaries. So many holes in that philosophy, just like there are many holes in the religious, moral approach.

The truth is, deep down in my core, although a part of me doesn’t want to admit it to myself, I think you made the right decision. You had something with someone before and it gave you PIED. You already had the experience of living PMO fetishes. It didn’t work out. Instead of going back into something similar, you stuck to your guns and put your recovery first. That IS badass. I’m confident you’ll meet your girl one day when you least expect, just like I did with mine.

The main point is that you had a gut feeling about something and you stuck to it. This shit would trigger even the holiest of monks, dude, so try not to worry about it. Remember, it’s all passing. Every thought, every feeling. Everything. Let your brain process it. If it needs to fight, let it fight. If it needs to hurt, let it hurt. If it needs to scream, let it scream. But you made a decision.

You also helped me potentially see something that I was blind to. Thank you for posting. I hope you feel better soon. I’m with you dude. Im happy to share my number with you if you need to text or call me urgently. Just PM me on here and I’ll send it to you.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Non-Dual Adventurer on December 10, 2019, 12:44:59 AM
Btw I really hope that my message doesn’t trigger you further. What I’m trying to say is I guess you’re spot on about something that I’ve been in denial about for a long time. You’re wiser than I, dude. Please just remember how inspiring it is to see you kicking ass and taking names. You are better than this whole bullshit and always will be.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 10, 2019, 02:41:50 AM
Thanks so nuch for the support dude. May take you up on that offer to chat man.
 

Feeling conflicted right now.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: k-fff on December 10, 2019, 03:26:36 AM
Read what happened with that girl. You definitely made the right decision. That was extremely alpha of you. It is the most masculine thing to have control over yourself. People who equate getting women with being alpha are foolish. You should be really proud of yourself. Most people don't have that kind of willpower to refuse something like that and you did. It is very impressive that you overcame that. Keep going strong, your emotions are just playing games with you right now. You knew that right decision and you had the strength to commit to it. Awesome job.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 10, 2019, 03:50:49 AM
Man THANKS SO MUCH for the support. That just saved me....

I messed up a bit and faltered. I realized I had taken a screenshot of that girls number when I first met her (I did that so I wouldn't forget) and I had urges, found the photo of her information and lamely and pretty pathetically texted her again. And I was laying here fantasizing about fetishes a bit. So damn close to quitting and moing (the fanasizing about the fetishes is still a back step).

But I read the support, re deleted the number and made sure it is gone this time. Laying here alone, I couldn't see anything except this girl and the fetish bullshit. But being on the forum, reminds me again there is other shit out there in the future. This is the most powerfully the addiction had over taken me in a LOONNGGG time. Scary.

Well that was a bit of a fuck up but oh well. Was just laying there trying to sleep....

Anyways, it's late but I am going for a walk. Gotta do it.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 10, 2019, 05:28:24 AM
Well paced up and down a few blocks for an hour and a half or so... man it's nice to be free of the urges.

A quick autopsy. I was going into the fetish fantasies a bit, but stopped pretty quickly each time (as it got me so close to full on MO'ing) so I was flirtying with it, but didn't get lost in hours of fetish fantasies or long unitterupted fantasy. A cool thing was it felt pretty alien to even start fantasizing, so I see that as progress.

I am damn tired, but it's all good. This is a commitment I have talked about before, part of recovery, for me at least needs to be an acceptance that occasionally I will not sleep for a night.

Family is awake now lol, will try and get some sleep but if not oh well. I think I'll have a good day regardless.

This was one of the toughest urge/situations I ever got through. Thanks all for the support couldn't have done it without you! I burned off almost every bit of energy being awake and walking fast listening to music, but man I felt pretty damn good and proud about getting thourh this.

Also man, I am not even religous but it's almost like that girl was sent by satan, couldn't have been a more triggering situation. Didn't expect that.

Looking forward to a great tomorrow (well today at this point lol). Gonna set some goals and if I need extra rest, that's okay too.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: k-fff on December 10, 2019, 06:09:26 AM
Awesome that you got through the night. You have proven to  yourself now that you're a the type of person who doesn't need a girl to be fulfilled and that is extremely rare. Even more than that, those fetishes don't have control over you. You're the one in the control and you're not gonna let another person take that away from you. Hope your next day goes well.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 10, 2019, 11:29:30 AM
Thanks so much bro! Feeling pretty good and happy now! I am  the night and now not an urge in sight. Feels great. Remind me of the quote "Happiness is not pleasure, happiness is victory!"

Had little to do today so got a decent amount of sleep, just got a nice chat in with a friend and ready to get on with day.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Rebooter2019 on December 10, 2019, 11:39:15 AM
K-fff's right. It's the addicted part of your brain who try to get you... but you're stronger than that! You actually proved it to yourself by not moing! Now you  have to watch out for some "after effect" of that almost relapse. For a couple if days I would make sure that I'm as busy as possible and spent as much time with friends as possible... just to let the steam down! That's what I would do anyway. After an episode like that, I tended to be more vulnerable to a full relapse!

To be clear, you really have something to be proud of! I think we all know how these shitty urges can be intense!... you resisted that and now you know that you're stronger than your urges! Man, when I realised that, it became way easier. Note that I said easier and not easy! You're in much better position now! Congrats :)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 10, 2019, 12:00:55 PM
Thanks bro! And very good advice to stay on guard! I am quite happy with myself about getting through it and feel sort of tiredly relaxed like "nice I did it!" but being exposed to so many triggering things urges etc. DEFINITELY could give me a chaser effect. So gotta stay on top of it. I feel fine now, but why not keep feeling fine? The way to do that is like you said, being distracted and busy. So I may be starting the day a little slow, but once I get going I'll spend most of the day out.

I can go to this little event, work on studying (out of the home) go to a bookstore, then visit family, plus go to the gym at some point in there. It'll be awesome and keep me out of the house for most of the day.

Man was just reading a few other threads here and as I did it, just feeling so grateful that I got through that. It would have been very awful to be awake today and have relapsed. Now that the urges and all that bs passed. It's crazy how I was like a different person for some of those moments... So grateful to have gotten through it and be back to myself and still safe and clean. Phew

This felt like a turning point! Looking forward to the day and week to come! Feeling damn confident too, soon I'll be going on healthier dates too and I'll be setting some career/learning goals ASAP.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on December 10, 2019, 07:57:30 PM
Wow, man! What a night!

Huge, HUGE congrats for getting through the night and for cutting ties like you did. I think this falls into that classic category of things not being okay just because they're happening in real life. I have heard way too many people around here give themselves and others a pass for dangerous, addictive behavior just because there wasn't a computer screen between them and the women. Way to see right through that lie and do what you needed to do to stay on track in your recovery.

It's also great that you acknowledge that it isn't that that girl is evil or bad (even if she was sent by satan, lol). It's just that she's not right for you or for your path to recovery. Because of our addictions and vulnerabilities, some things just have to be permanently off-limits to us even if they would be okay for other people. They're just not worth the risk.

It's 100% normal and expected that you would be reeling and conflicted in the aftermath too. That whole scenario was no joke, like dropping an atom bomb in your peaceful recovery village. You had a chance at a real relationship (stable, healthy, happy) that turned into a nuclear trigger, so not only did you have to deal with the disappointment of something not working out with a girl (which could be triggering enough) you also had to deal with a whole mess of intense triggers and urges.

Truly, getting through it and back into the light of a new day is a huge thing, and I'm so glad that you weathered the storm. Of course stay on guard, but hopefully the worst of it is over.

Take it easy, catch your breath, and keep being truly inspiring!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 10, 2019, 11:35:31 PM
Thanks so much for the support so much everyone! Really appreciate you sharing your story Non-Dual about how acting on your stuff prob made it harder to recover, it helps me be more confident in my decision. K-fff like I said literally your comments got me to come back to re deleting that shit and got me back from the edge when I started sliding back. Great call Rebooter! I took that advice in and spent the day out being productive and around other people so that was great.

And thanks Blue! Man, it feels good to be understood. You really hit the nail on the head about the conflict and really put the feelings into words, which has me feeling wayyy better about it and a lot more understanding of the situation and less conflicted about it. And yeah really glad for the reminder. Dangerous addictive behavior must be cut out screen or not! Bringing things into the real world is simple the NEXT LEVEL of addiction. Must Must Must be avoided.


Anyways guys, luckily I was able to keep my promise, had a good day! Nothing super spectacular but I just got shit done, was positive and really happy with it all. I cleaned and organized and made my area so much nicer, that felt great. I SET A GOAL, like I planned on and I got MORE WORK DONE in 2 hours then I had gotten in like days. Goals are the bomb for me, it felt great to have a goal to work toward, get it done and feel really good about it after. I have my goal for the week and I am on track to achieve it. It's nice having something to aim for, really taking my mind off the negative.

AND I went to a new AWESOME yoga school that just opened up! It's super cheap and right around the corner, exactly the yoga I want, great for the body and a very difficult class. The teacher was super cool, we hit it off and I complimented him. This is a big big win for my life as consistent rigours yoga really really is an aide to my recovery.

It was also cool, it was  small class but some girls were in it. And man am I glad to have stayed clean. I looked at this girls, not in an addicty compulsive way but in a healthy way. Like man those girls are beautiful! and seem so cool. Like attracted to them as entire people not triggering parts. It made me think holy shit how awesome it'll be to have real intimate sexuality it's soo soo soo much better then that nonsense from last night. 

To take responsibility as well, there were some red flags in that other girl. So I'll be a bit more discerning in girls I take out. I want girls I am attracted to in a really positive way. The other girl did seem nice but I was more triggered compulsive attracted to her then attracted to her in a healthy way, you know? I think my natural sexuality and my addict bs like different types of girls. So I gotta pay attention.

Anyway cliff notes: Thanks so much everyone! Feeling really good and happy to have a goal to work toward tomorrow!

Oh SHOOT! I almost forgot. I can not state enough how awesome Zig Ziglar is, making a habit of listening to him when I walk for little bits here and there throughout the day. It really boosts my mood and man they hit the nail on the head about Porn! Talked about how it harms the self image every time it is watched and that MANY porn actors are victims of human trafficking.... talk about motivation to NEVER look at that shit (this supporting it) it's not just about us....

Man I love Zig Ziglar and his son... It's like the best stuff ever. Pure positivity (in a realistic not magical thinking way) plus all about treating others well and then they just happen to bring up motivation to avoid PMO all the time. These guys have it right.

Edit: One final thing. I feel great now. But still going to watch it tonight. I feel good and expect to fall asleep easily. But not gonna take it for granted, be ready in case something pops up.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on December 11, 2019, 06:01:19 PM
Way to get through another day! And it sounds like a pretty good one, too!

That's cool that you found a good yoga class and that there are cool girls there. I get what you mean about your addict brain being attracted to different types of girls. There's definitely a huge difference between the women I'm interested in in real life and the ones I gravitated to in porn.

Also way to go setting and achieving a goal! That's also a great thing for productivity and healthy brain chemistry.

All awesome stuff after what happened last night. Proud of you, man!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 11, 2019, 11:04:12 PM
Thanks so much man! I really appreciate it and you being proud of me means a lot!

I'll call today a good day. I was going to say okay, but I'll say good. Reason being I didn't feel too good, but I took lots of actions (healthy) to make myself feel better and I am now finishing pretty strong!

So I went to an information sessions for a job training thing, that was interesting. Then aimed to study but my computer was almost dead. I found a place to charge it and work, but I felt pretty bad and urges and was having difficulty focusing, but I think my response was pretty good. I went on here to read a bunch of success stories, that helped a lot. Then I actually donated a little money to nofap.com, the founder is suing people for defamation/harassment (the porn industry is literally paying people to defend porn and harass the people who go against it!!!). It felt good to donate, as honestly I don't donate money often. I also felt that donating this money, psychologically is a big action of commitment against porn and would effect my mind very well.

Been reading about psychology lately, and our mind creates beliefs around our actions AFTER the fact. So I recon financially supporting and donating a fight against Porn would create great beliefs against it. I always resist groups and stuff, but this is something I believe in, so it might be cool to do a little bit to support the communities (other then with posting etc. which is also great). I also edited a wikipedia of a guy who wrote all these books saying porn addiction isn't real. I edited it for accuarcy (he is on the payroll of a huge porn company) and I put that in the second line of his wiki with citation lol. Warning by the way , in case anyone wanted to look him up his books triggering titles and covers! So don't look him up for many of us.

Anyways, so that stuff lowered my urges. Then I set another little goal: To do some "approaches" of girls. I don't want to over do them, but I was feeling anxious and oddly, approaching girls or doing other anxiety inducing things is good therapy for anxiety. Whatever reason pushing through small amounts of anxiety multiple times, eventually I find calm and the general anxiety lowers. So I felt general anxiety and social anxiety, basically just pushing through them repeatedly until they faded.

So, I did that. Approached a few girls. By the end of it I felt a good bit better. Stopped by a bookstore and they had a book I have been wanting on the used book rack for $2!!! It's called the "wim hoff method" it's all about cold showers and breath training. He is a bit out there but a ton of science now backs it up apparently. I read it got inspired and took a longer cold shower then I have in the past, just totally present and since then I am feeling quite good. Did a bit of work, cooking a late yummy dinner and now posting here.

Didn't get a ton done on my study, but glad I set a multiday goal, rather then a "study this amount" each day thing. I'll still achieve the goal. Tomorrow is prob the day where I'll get a lot of it done.

Other good news. I used to see a good therapist. Got an appointment with him for Friday. I want to commit more to therapy.
The key for me is: I am there to improve and get better, not to endlessly rehash problems. The therapist was good basically pointing things out to me and changing my thinking in positive ways. So I'd like to commit to doing that consistently if possible. I found it much easier to avoid PMO when I was seeing a therapist. Key was not to talk about PMO (therapists often are taught it's not real) but to talk about other stuff which just had me generally feeling better.

Man Rebooter, hope you are reading! Going to post a "field report" below this of approaches I did. For anyone not interested or who may find that triggering (it won't be sexual) feel free to skip it.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 11, 2019, 11:27:00 PM
Quick "field report" of the girls I approached.

First off today early on I saw a woman I found really attractive sitting across from me on the subway reading a book I like and drinking a healthy juice! I kicked myself for not sitting next to her. ( I wouldn't sit next to her if it were awkward, but the train was mostly full, I was between two people anyway, so I could have smoothly sit next to her (without looking at her) and it would have been natural and made things WAYYY easier.

Anyways, I kept looking at her and was feeling anxious already now was more so, but I was like man I should say something. I kept looking at her, then we breifly made eye contact. I was like "how do you like the book" and we briefly chatted about it (me shouting across the train) and she went back to reading lol. Then I chatted a bit with the guy next to me. Still noticeably anxious, just started out like that today.


While working I asked the two pretty girls nearby to watch my stuff when I got up to the rest room, then I chatted with them a bit about where they were from.

Set my goal then for 3 more "real" approaches.

I started heading toward an area I like to hang out and sometimes do approaches in.

I was really feeling nervous so I knew a good move was to "lower my standards" take it easy on myself. So I nervously asked a few women for directions. This got me a bit warmed up. I crossed the street and this cute girl was next to me.

I said "you look cold" (playfully) she laughed a bit and we chatted about weather, how I moved here from a warm place etc. It was amiable and friendly. We were going to the same store and chatted. She stopped in the store and we kept talking. I sort of awkwardly asked her to get smoothies some time she seemed like meh interest. Chatted more, and I kept saying I had to go. This was bad game. I sort of just wanted her number and to leave. Like I had it in my head I should get her number, but it wasn't like a real "let's hang out" vibe. She also asked me a lot of questions about career and stuff, I felt a bit unconfident in them and felt a bit judged. Overall it left a bad taste in my mouth. I felt like I was chasing her too much and doing it out of some bad habit. OH well. Today was a tough day and these approaches were more therapy than anything else. That'll help me to get an awesome girl in the future, as I'll be less likely to make the same mistakes. I FORGOT I was nervous before and focused on speaking louder and slower on this approach, this is what lead to that really good initial reaction and had me more confident initially. I acted more confident, which got a better respons and had had me feeling better.

Two attractive girls were in subway. Chatted to them a bit. It was meh. Maybe I need more focus and awarness in my approaches, I was just kind of doing them with no plan whatsoever, just chatting.

Last approach was in bookstore, just us each saying a few sentences. She seemed to young maybe.

Finally in bar I stopped in. I just went in and right away approached the pretiest girl lol. It was a bit clumsy. She was telling a story to her friend and I sort of barreled in. I said she "seemed animated" she looked at me a bit unfriendly/ increduously. But then I said (sincerly) " do you know what animated means?" Then she got all friendly. But her friend seemed very annoyed (who knows maybe she wasn't as much as I thought, was withdrawly/ anxious today) I was like I don't want to deal with this friend so I just left.

Nice lesson there for me, just QUIETLY calmly acting like I expect a good reaction often gets it. Key is not over talking, just like showing in subtle ways I expect a good reaction but am not trying to force her to give me attention, just that I expect it .

Saw one more very pretty girl on way home and said something silly. She kind of ignored me but I just stood kept looking at her NOT FACING HER. (facing her this would be very uncomfortable but I was looking at her over my shoulder as though about to leave, which  made it possible to look at her and not make it uncomfortable. Picture like a parent leaving a room asking a kid "if they'll do there homework" and pausing looking back over there shoulder as they walk out to confirm the kid said yes. Expectant but very much so like, " I have to leave now".

Anyways then she was like "I can't hear you I am listening to music" (after ignoring me for like 2 seconds) I repeated the question. Looking right at her and she started smiling, but my train was there and I left. I don't think that would go anywhere but it was pretty funny. Don't think she was interested but her smile was like "okay, you have confidence".

For Todd v fans these last two approaches are sort of a concept Todd talked about. Say you go to a nightclub and the doorman says "are you on the list" some people will just be like "no" and leave. But some people will be like "no" but their body language and stuff says they expect to get in. So they do. Not all places, some are serious about the guest lists. But some spots it's almost a "cool" test. Like okay, this guy is used to getting in places easily, he must be cool, let's let him in.

This is similar the girl sort of will ignore for a split second, and just having no reaction and expecting a response it's pretty amazing how they will flip super fast and be friendly. It's like a "do you seriously think hot girls like me talk to you?" " Oh you do! Hey super awesome guy : ) ! " They right away get to see where you stand, or at least seem to stand.

The KEY is that I do NOTHING. If you say something to a girl and she ignores you then you try and get her attention again really fast (like say RSD would do) now that shows like you don't expect the attention and are trying to force it HORRIBLE. Very unnattractive, girls will respond horribly to that and it can be very very uncomfortable.

Just running away in half a second when a girl doesn't respond and they'll act like you never existed.
But just that split- one second of saying something, the girl/girls acting like they didn't hear and you just looking at them expecting them to answer, it's amazing how magical it can be. I have said like a quiet "hi" to groups of girls and they'll ignore it for 1-2 seconds not even looking at me, it's obvious they didn't hear or see me but as I stand there just looking at them for that one second, suddenly they'll all turn to me and be all bubbly treating me like I am hot shit. They damn well notice everything lol. Women are damn perceptive.

Anyways a lil field report.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 11, 2019, 11:40:54 PM
Also just to check myself: Appreciate Blueheron's observation about just because it is "real life" does not make it okay! So I would like to do a bit of approaching maybe, BUT keep it healthy and not compulsive or over doing it. Or constantly using it as an outlet for anxious energy it can be a nice little moderate hobby from time to time. But let's try and keep a check on it and make sure it's a healthy thing!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 12, 2019, 11:43:31 AM
Quick little check in.

Need to buy earplugs! I get woken in the night a lot and it throws me off, there is ZERO reason to not have earplugs and it majorly solves a problem...
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 12, 2019, 04:01:20 PM
Good day so far.
But just Saw a girl who had this odd decal on her computer that was sexual and that triggered me then mind going off into weird stories of p inspired nonsense. The thoughts are weak but I want to remind myself they are NOT accurate. I think the experience with satan's helper girl influencing thoughts a bit.

The positive is though, this girl I saw I can be aware that I m not attracted  to her, she is more the triggering type. This is good to explore and be aware of.

Certain girls inspire a "wow I pike her and she is attractive" others inspire a pmo i spired urge of ooohh I want that.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: achilles heel on December 12, 2019, 04:33:42 PM
Just read the story of the girl sharing your porn fetishes and can relate to that a lot as I know girls like her and those conversations on the phone would often lead myself to sexting and to hours of binges on sexting and porn. You did the right thing and made an incredibly tough decision, congrats on that! This is a journey of discovering ourselves and what we really want - and having a natural and healthy (sexual) relationship is so much more important than sharing the high of the moment with a girl and then fall back into the abyss of self-hatred and regret.

You are on the right track, keep going!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 12, 2019, 08:40:44 PM
Thanks so much man!! Really appreciate the encouragement and it's great for me to hear about others experiences with similar  situations, it really helps me feel commited to my decision and confident moving forward.

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on December 12, 2019, 10:34:46 PM
Then I actually donated a little money to nofap.com, the founder is suing people for defamation/harassment (the porn industry is literally paying people to defend porn and harass the people who go against it!!!). It felt good to donate, as honestly I don't donate money often. I also felt that donating this money, psychologically is a big action of commitment against porn and would effect my mind very well.

It sounds like you're up to a lot of good things, but this really caught  my attention. It reminded me of a time when I was talking to someone about my addiction and looking for help, and he was just trying to figure how bad it was. He asked if I was paying for porn, and I said no. He said something like, "Well that's good. Once you're paying for it, you're in another level deeper."

Long story short, now you're paying against porn! Which, by the same logic, means you're out another level higher! I think that's an awesome thing to do. I have tried to think about ways to do more to fight porn in the world, but I guess I just haven't really found a way that I'm personally comfortable with yet. But it's really awesome that you're putting money into the good fight.

When I was in my phase of trying really hard to look at forms of porn that wouldn't "count," I spent some binges trying to find/watch documentaries about the porn industry. Back then, I hoped they would give me a fix, but they usually left me feeling pretty sad for the women involved. I've been thinking about that more in the last couple of days, like what kind of world do we live in that has reduced attractive young women to thinking that the only way they can make it in the world is by letting other people film their body parts? When I really stop to process it, it's profoundly sad to me. And then the (usually) men who run these companies, what a disgusting bunch of predators taking advantage of these women so that they can make money off of other people's addictions and then say they aren't doing any harm because it's all consenting adults and so on.

The whole thing's a mess, and it's really encouraging that you're fighting porn in your life and in the world and sticking up for the guys who are trying to tell everyone how dangerous this stuff really is.

Keep it up!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 13, 2019, 01:16:20 AM
Thanks man! haha that is a great way to look at it, the worst is paying for the addiction so paying against it must be good! I made my donation anonymously, it was small but felt good.


Decent day today. I ended up getting two girls numbers. I guess I'll write more about those tomorrow or tonight if I stay up.

The first was in the bookstore, cool interesting girl. The second OMG wow, I a probably getting too excited but I was like "Girl freind material girl friend material" in my head.

Met girl walking out of gym. She was really nice, really attractive in an innocent sweet natural way. (Which is what I really like). She seemed really emotionally healthy, I really enjoyed talking to her and she is very into fitness and is going to school to work with kids (I love women like this). Just a very wholesome sweet really attractive girl. She checked off so many boxes. She just felt really really sweet, she was really humble but cheerful. I also had a very particular idea of what women I am attracted to physically (not in pmo way!!) maybe shallow but she was basically exactly that. We talked for awhile. Exchanged info.

I literally was like wow, "I met my girlfriend!". I have talked people down from getting overly excited so I thin you guys can do the same for me!

But no matter what happens once again I am so grateful for getting through that hard night and cutting out that other triggering pmo type girl. Man. Whatever happens this is encouraging, super awesome girls are out there and some of them like me.

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 13, 2019, 11:20:31 AM
Well I can check myself a bit. That girl didn't answer my text (I basically just sent her my number, but not usually a good sign lol). Doesn't mean I won't see her but she def isn't my girlfriend for sure lol and it does lower the chances.

Either way there are TONS of opportunities out there. Gotta remind myself: Take your time!

I am falling into a bit of magical thinking. In my experience, practically to get a girlfriend I have to date a lot, even have (healthy!) sex with several women, get my confidence up know what I am doing and that usually leads to a girlfriend.

Gotta get a lot of study/work in today to achieve my goal! So I'll do that soonish.

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: quitforeverthenwin2 on December 13, 2019, 11:42:20 PM
Quick check in, wanted to skip but then felt a slight urge when I made that decision, so why play with even a spark?

The big thing: STUDY GOAL ACHIEVED! Pretty cool as it's the first time in awhile I wrote down a specific multi day goal and achieved it.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on December 13, 2019, 11:53:31 PM
Good stuff again, man!

Maybe she is your girlfriend, maybe she isn't. I think what's more important is that you know the right kind of girl is out there and that you have no problem talking to her/taking the first step. So she's not "the one," but she's probably like "the one," and it's all just practice. I can't remember who encouraged me to think of each date/dating in general as a practice (like yoga or meditation)...it was probably you...but that's what this is. I think trying at all to connect with the right kind of girl is a great step, regardless of how it works out in the end.

Also, way to accomplish your study goal! That's great! keep up the consistency and achievement!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: achilles heel on December 14, 2019, 03:10:23 AM
Either way there are TONS of opportunities out there. Gotta remind myself: Take your time!

Your ability to randomly talk to girls even multiplies your opportunities, I read through your field reports and think it's amazing how you just get numbers in every day situations. Don't worry and just stay on your path of recovery, sooner or later you will find someone special!

Also congratulations on reaching your multi-day-study-goal, keep advancing! :)