Reboot Nation

Journals => Ages 20-29 => Topic started by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 12, 2019, 06:15:42 PM

Title: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 12, 2019, 06:15:42 PM
Hey everybody, I came pretty far in my recovery and have no been on this forum in awhile, but unfortunately have had several lapses. Last night and this morning being the worst. I am rededicated and it already seems like a long time ago. The lapses were really my fault. I found what works to beat this, and stopped doing it just a bit too early.

I almost felt a bit ashamed to come back to the forum with the same screen name, as I just wanted to have this done in one journal (I previously had one) but hell, it is what it is. I have found things that work very well to keep me away from my past compulsive masturbation, porn and fantasy behaviors, it's just a matter of keeping them up for a bit longer, and keeping some of them a permanent part of my life.

An issue I have, is I tend to like to pretend I don't have problems. I DO NOT want to turn into a cry fest woah is me type of deal. But maybe it does not hurt to ask for additional support and advice... so especially for guys who have successfully beaten this I would appreciate a bit of tips and encouragement. 

Additionally I find calling friends helps me with other issues, so I may look into an accountability partner/ network as well.

A bit about me:

I had no idea this was an issue for years, but my dick did not work. I was this awkward guy, but I busted my ass to learn to be able to date women. I never became great but managed to get several women in bed, all with my dick not working. A mentor/friend told me about your brain on porn .com and to stop watching porn and masturbating. ( I was I think 23 at the time) and for the first time I really enjoyed sex just two weeks later! Unfortunately the chaser effect got me and I'd go back and forth. Eventually I totally quite masturbating to porn. about 3 years ago now! But I would still look at it and masturbate after....

I had a little bad luck... I had a girlfriend who I engaged with porn induced fetishes with, that set me back and actually started giving me my PED again! I cut that out, things were going swimmingly, I was stepping it up and then I was trying to cut out fantasy of my porn induced fetishes, the withdrawal was strong but I was doing it! I decided to sign up for a 12 step program (sex addicts anonymous) for support......

I was in it but not that "into it" but over and over I heard "you are powerless" "you can not control your actions etc." and was pressured into doing all this crazy stuff. Like feeling powerless and praying and stuff and I relapsed!!!!! I stayed in the group and got worse and worse.... it was the opposite of recovery!!! Instead of rationally building discipline and changing the habit, it made it far worse as when you tell yourself you can not control your addiction it gets worse!!! How foolish I was to be in that group. (In the group they teach you the only way is 12 step, I did research and find 12 step actually has a super low success rate, but they brainwash people into talking it up).

Anyway, I left the group, it took my years to get to a 30 day streak again, as I had lost quite a bit of discipline and stopped dating which hurt me bad! (rewiring was huge!) Now I have had several streaks like that, but recently have moved cities and started lapsing about twice a week. No matter that is all in the past, what has worked for me of recent, I will simply rationally work on more of that.

Smart recovery (not meetings the manual) - A science based program, it really helps me get rid of all the bs I learned in 12 step. It's simple, you focus on building motivation, writing out what is motivating you, and coming up with strategies to avoid things that bring about urges and to handle them when they show up. (pretty much similiar to what most of us are doing here). - When reading through that manual and working on the exercises for 30 min a day I never slipped. (So just do that till the habit is dead, stop being a lazy ass and skipping it until I slip again).

Journaling!- Journaling here helped me in getting my first 30+ days lapse free since I had been brainwashed into losing my willpower in the 12 step group.

7 steps of highly effective people- This book has a 30 day "be proactive challenge" essentially it's all about acting in spite of your feelings, go all out for 30 days. This really ups my willpower and control of my self.

Simply put I will implement these three things that have worked for me in the past, in order to really beat this once and for all. As well as asking for a bit more support and encouragement as that can not hurt. Therefore having a real like get rid of these lame ass compulsions super program lol.

Also, I moved to a warm great city, it's great for my mood. But I ought to be careful about looking at the women too much.

Anyway, thanks for reading, hope you all are having a great day!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Circle on March 12, 2019, 06:59:54 PM
Hey everybody, I came pretty far in my recovery and have no been on this forum in awhile, but unfortunately have had several lapses. Last night and this morning being the worst. I am rededicated and it already seems like a long time ago. The lapses were really my fault. I found what works to beat this, and stopped doing it just a bit too early.

I almost felt a bit ashamed to come back to the forum with the same screen name, as I just wanted to have this done in one journal (I previously had one) but hell, it is what it is. I have found things that work very well to keep me away from my past compulsive masturbation, porn and fantasy behaviors, it's just a matter of keeping them up for a bit longer, and keeping some of them a permanent part of my life.

An issue I have, is I tend to like to pretend I don't have problems. I DO NOT want to turn into a cry fest woah is me type of deal. But maybe it does not hurt to ask for additional support and advice... so especially for guys who have successfully beaten this I would appreciate a bit of tips and encouragement. 

Additionally I find calling friends helps me with other issues, so I may look into an accountability partner/ network as well.

A bit about me:

I had no idea this was an issue for years, but my dick did not work. I was this awkward guy, but I busted my ass to learn to be able to date women. I never became great but managed to get several women in bed, all with my dick not working. A mentor/friend told me about your brain on porn .com and to stop watching porn and masturbating. ( I was I think 23 at the time) and for the first time I really enjoyed sex just two weeks later! Unfortunately the chaser effect got me and I'd go back and forth. Eventually I totally quite masturbating to porn. about 3 years ago now! But I would still look at it and masturbate after....

I had a little bad luck... I had a girlfriend who I engaged with porn induced fetishes with, that set me back and actually started giving me my PED again! I cut that out, things were going swimmingly, I was stepping it up and then I was trying to cut out fantasy of my porn induced fetishes, the withdrawal was strong but I was doing it! I decided to sign up for a 12 step program (sex addicts anonymous) for support......

I was in it but not that "into it" but over and over I heard "you are powerless" "you can not control your actions etc." and was pressured into doing all this crazy stuff. Like feeling powerless and praying and stuff and I relapsed!!!!! I stayed in the group and got worse and worse.... it was the opposite of recovery!!! Instead of rationally building discipline and changing the habit, it made it far worse as when you tell yourself you can not control your addiction it gets worse!!! How foolish I was to be in that group. (In the group they teach you the only way is 12 step, I did research and find 12 step actually has a super low success rate, but they brainwash people into talking it up).

Anyway, I left the group, it took my years to get to a 30 day streak again, as I had lost quite a bit of discipline and stopped dating which hurt me bad! (rewiring was huge!) Now I have had several streaks like that, but recently have moved cities and started lapsing about twice a week. No matter that is all in the past, what has worked for me of recent, I will simply rationally work on more of that.

Smart recovery (not meetings the manual) - A science based program, it really helps me get rid of all the bs I learned in 12 step. It's simple, you focus on building motivation, writing out what is motivating you, and coming up with strategies to avoid things that bring about urges and to handle them when they show up. (pretty much similiar to what most of us are doing here). - When reading through that manual and working on the exercises for 30 min a day I never slipped. (So just do that till the habit is dead, stop being a lazy ass and skipping it until I slip again).

Journaling!- Journaling here helped me in getting my first 30+ days lapse free since I had been brainwashed into losing my willpower in the 12 step group.

7 steps of highly effective people- This book has a 30 day "be proactive challenge" essentially it's all about acting in spite of your feelings, go all out for 30 days. This really ups my willpower and control of my self.

Simply put I will implement these three things that have worked for me in the past, in order to really beat this once and for all. As well as asking for a bit more support and encouragement as that can not hurt. Therefore having a real like get rid of these lame ass compulsions super program lol.

Also, I moved to a warm great city, it's great for my mood. But I ought to be careful about looking at the women too much.

Anyway, thanks for reading, hope you all are having a great day!
welcome back to the forum, im in a similar situation as you. rebooted twice in my 20s and now struggling with relapses every 2 weeks or so. my pied hasnt come back yet but i know its just a matter of time if i dont cut it out!

but im staying strong. going to post here every say until im good again. good luck man, you can do it and werr all pulling for you
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 13, 2019, 12:14:57 PM
Thanks for the support! Great that you are catching it before your PIED comes back!!!! It's a reminder to always stay vigilant and go super super hard about cutting this shit out. It reminds me of how shitty it felt to be with a girl I really like and go soft, had that experience a few times, it was just awful..... in a way it is good to remember, remember those awful experiences as motivation to reboot and stay rebooted now rather than have to go through them again...

Really appreciate the support
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 13, 2019, 12:27:07 PM
Day 1 (Yesterday my relapse from the previous night extended to the next morning, that was before posting here). So anyway, I still consider yesterday a mostly good day. I got some work done that I had been procrastinating on that had scared me, I studied and I put a lot into reading positive books. That is something that has always been very powerful for me, put good stuff into my brain (reading and listening) and good stuff comes out later (thoughts and feelings).

I am grateful for a nice coping tool I used yesterday. I did not receive an answer to a phone call, and decided that the person on the other end hated me and then when I had an issue with a tech thing connected to them, that they had cancelled my account without telling me! (this all happened in my head based on a tech issue and a  non returned phone call). I was so mad and emotional it was insane. Anyway, luckily I thought I can choose to dispute this and I utilized the ABCDE tool, for disputing thoughts. I wrote out my beliefs and disputed them (how the fuck do I know any of this is true? I have had other wild fantasies like this that were wrong, so this one may be too...) I did not totally calm down, but was 70% calmer....

Turns out the call was returned Today (the next day) and the guy was super cool and handled my issue lol. Anyway, it's good to learn to be less dramatic etc.

I'll also mention I was quite "jumpy" yestarday I went for a walk and kept thinking I saw people and animals and shit when the wind blew the branches weird lol.... I'll just blame the porn on that, it just plain fucks the brain up. (So let's add feeling like a schizofrenic to a good reason to not use porn or masturbate (for me that has to go as well)

Today, I have the day mostly free. I planned it out. I had a lot of nightmares last night and slept a lot, but I am controlling myself well. Just taking good actions, like working out, working on smart, journaling here and getting some work done later.

Hmmm, that is it really for now. I am a bit excited at all the healthy things I am doing but also slightly worried, feeling a slight fear about my ability to cut out porn masturbation etc. forever.

BUT, I can build that confidence, by taking the right actions and reminding myself over and over at the end of the day, I can choose to keep my commitment and cut that shit out of my life!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on March 13, 2019, 07:41:56 PM
This is the place for support--welcome back! I know you asked for tips, but it looks like you have a lot of good resources and tips yourself. I'd love to know more about the things you do keep yourself moving forward. Relapses happen, but it's the quality of the progress in between that really counts.

I've been working lately on becoming a healthier person all-around. Stopping PMO is one thing, but I think it's only one symptom of larger problems that I'm working to figure out and address in healthier ways. It can be harder progress to measure, but I really feel like I'm making better progress than before.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 14, 2019, 09:55:10 AM
Thanks for the support and the encouragement! I definitely agree with how crucial it is to become a healthy person all around. Something suddenly came up so I am now behind in my day, just wanted to post here real quick with an update, but either tonight or tomorrow I will go more in detail about some of the things that are working for me and what I've learned about being a healthier person in general. 
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 14, 2019, 10:04:11 AM
Day 2
Okay, so as my last post suggested (directed at blue hero fan! So rushed I forgot to quote) I am super rushed but wanted to at least post in here quick. (somehow asked me a favor that was time sensitive so losing a few hours of my afternoon and gotta rush there, it's all good though).

Anyway, I am seeing the effects of my last lapse, some anxiety and bizarre thoughts. (I get quite a bit of negative ideas about people, in a way it feels like isolation feeds the addictive behaviors and the addictive behaviors encourage more isolation. But, I have been managing this stuff pretty well. Exercise is HUGE! The right type, things like jogging, swimming, yoga are the best a little lifting is good too. These things seem to really help clear the mind.

Disputing my thoughts is HUGE, I get these feelings that I am "certain" that somehow is a jerk out to get me or something, then once I dispute the thoughts it was the dumbest idea ever, like so in accurate. So, I will keep that up.

I read something cool today, I will try and post a screenshot of the page later. The book "the willpower instinct" talked about how people who are the MOST confident often fail at changing habits! This was an interesting insight, basically it seemed like a healthy fear of your bad habits and triggers is a good thing. This made sense to me as my lapses were caused by arrogance! "Ahhh, I am not gonna do it I can stay in bed even when not tired (huge trigger for me)" "aaahhh I am fine, I can skip working on exercises from smart" those are what led to my lapses. So this is a great insight, to know I can control this, but still to have a healthy concern and always being just a little bit vigilant. It also allays my fear of my losing some confidence at my last slip... I don't need to be perfectly confident, I just need to put in the work and be willing to pay the price to get rid of these bad habits.

Be willing to push through my feelings and do things if I don't feel like it. Be willing to work really hard to change habits and be willing to occasionally not sleep at night. (The silly rationalizations are like "oh you can't sleep, you gotta pmo to get to sleep" it's total bullshit cause normally I would sleep EVEN less, then if I had just stayed up and waited for the urge to pass. Anyways, maybe not the most organized post, in a big rush! Back tomorrow or tonight if I can. 


EDIT: (writing this about 7 hours later): Was feeling pretty bad for most of the day, but funny enough the thing that helps is just pushing through it. It's like, I can get work done and do things and feel a little "off" or do nothing and feel awful. This is motivation to cut this shit out of my life! It is REALLY REALLY important! Also, I notice a big pattern for me is, if someone does not answer a text message. I immediately come up with a whole story, I create a catastrophe in my mind.  I nearly always assume I am being ignored or the person is mad, so far I have been wrong EVERY SINGLE TIME.... So, it is good I am recording this and disputing my thought.

I did have a very good moment this morning, I meditated a lot and felt suddenly present, it was really nice. I have an extra 30 minutes, I am very tired but will do a light workout just for the serotonin and dopamine boost.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 14, 2019, 05:49:15 PM
This is the place for support--welcome back! I know you asked for tips, but it looks like you have a lot of good resources and tips yourself. I'd love to know more about the things you do keep yourself moving forward. Relapses happen, but it's the quality of the progress in between that really counts.

I've been working lately on becoming a healthier person all-around. Stopping PMO is one thing, but I think it's only one symptom of larger problems that I'm working to figure out and address in healthier ways. It can be harder progress to measure, but I really feel like I'm making better progress than before.
Thanks again for the encouragement! I highly recommend the smart manual... It's $10. Smart is an addiction recovery program. I don't like the meetings, but the manual is really good. It's about 1) building motivation 2) handling urges then (the stuff you are looking for) 3) changing thought patterns and habit and 4) replacing the addictive behaviors with healthier activities.

Here are some free helpful (for me articles)

For me something CRUCIAL is the ABCDE tool
https://www.smartrecovery.org/smart-recovery-toolbox/abc-crash-course/
And working on frustration tolerance, having an addictive behaviour often leads to/ is fed by low frustration tolerance:
https://www.smartrecovery.org/help-for-low-frustration-tolerance/

https://shop.smartrecovery.org/product/books/smart-recovery-handbook-3rd-edition/

Finally I think learning and exercise are two huge keys. Learning can replace the addiction and exercise literally changes the brain for the better.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 15, 2019, 12:58:57 AM
Now, being it's nearly 2:00 am where I am, you may be expecting something bad but actually I had a very good night! I will be off to bed soon but two key points.

1) Beware of "feel good cravings" two very attractive girls are renting the apartment next to me, we had a friendly convo, I wanted to hang out with them, my mind started to sort of think of wow it'd be fun to hang out... etc. --> Being very catious and aware of sexual thought is a good thing! Arrogance "I am just imaging stuff with real girls is fine" led to me relapses, it starts with that, then more intense fantasies then lapse.... No more! Just live in the real world, interact with girls avoid looking at their bodies. It makes for better conversations and a better chance of actually dating them anyway.... no girl dates a dude cause he is leering at her and fantasizing about a girl makes talking harder and makes me nervous. So glad I caught that.

2) Pushing through emotions is key! I went out with a very gung ho positive friend and was just social! I felt loads of anxiety (damn addiction) but pushed through and through and through literally for hours! But by the end of the night I had an amazing time, talked to guys and girls felt social and so much better and more motivated. What a lesson, it's wild. If I just push through feelings long enough, eventually they go away. I feel that pushing through until I broke through and actually FELT social. (The feeling followed the action.... long after actually it took awhile with many ups and downs) was a great step AWAY from the addictive behaviour breaking from isolation.

Another note on that, may sound odd but having prepared jokes and things to say was very helpful, I felt awful and non social, but when I had a prepared joke to say that I know consistently works, I could say it get a laugh and feel better. Worked quite well, celebrities do it (they usually have prepared cool stories and jokes etc. for talk shows which lowers nervousness, so why not me?

May not have time to post tomorrow AM. But I see how life feeds itself, being social fed my motivation and mood which I can parley into my work as well.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 15, 2019, 09:30:39 PM
Edit: Today was day 3 by the way

Hey everybody. Today had a few stressful events. Had a commuting issue that threw me off schedule. It really threw the schedule off pretty good. Oh well.

Also, in my city there are some crazy parties with shady characters happening and a lot of fights. It was really stressful even being out. There has been some violence and I am worried. Like "oh no, it's always gonna be like this, I love this city and it won't be the same". It really is very different than usual and much more than ever in the past. BUT, it was not this way a few weeks ago. (I live in a very touristy part of a touristy city). So I think I ought to calm down, it's one wild week, it will not necessarily (in fact it likely won't) always be like this.

Focus was shit this evening during mediation but at least I did it.

I don't "feel" like it BUT I 110% am going to spend 30 minutes working through my smart book before bed. Siggghhh. I have work tomorrow but hopefully Sunday can be a nice day to recharge. Also, I gotta look on the bright side, I did so much productive stuff yestarday and even did a lot of necessary things today. Support always apreciated (especially on a rougher day like today). hope you all have a good an PMO free weekend!

Edit: Some urges coming and going still BUT, happy that I consciously did healthy activities to overcome my stress and had a very nice 30 minutes or so of calm, then worked on smart and studied a bit! Happy with that.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 16, 2019, 08:04:13 PM
Day 4!
Today, you know I should say was good.... There were a few little stresses but my emotions were a lot more balanced then they were in the past. I am still ruminating about one thing so I will do a ABCDE for it.

Also, I saw a lot of women out today, and by the end of the day was looking at some of them. This is something for me to cut out. Maybe I can get away with it but why?

I had a HUGE victory last night. I had this compulsion to check my phone, I was so close to doing it... But I realized that that checking the phone was connected to my porn and masturbatiion habit seriously....

I'll compulsively check my phone, work myself into a state, want to look up a picture of girls cause I am lonely. It is a snowball effect. I wanted to check my phone so fucking bad, but I said "I can choose not to!" and I did not!!! I walked over shut my phone off and put it in a drawer and went to sleep without even looking at it again that night!

This was huge, as this, I know from experience, was the beginning of my big bad craving/urge that was going to be intense and I shut it down right at the very start and that made things far easier.

So, I'll always stay vigilant! Some wildness going on in my city, but I can perhaps uber to a different part of down to not be in the house all evening but avoid drunk people/ people fighting etc.

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on March 16, 2019, 08:23:15 PM
Thanks for posting those links--I'll be sure to give them a closer look when I have more time!

It really does sound like we're in a similar spot. I realized just the other day that I was looking at women around town, which isn't helpful to me or them. It's definitely something I've been working on.

Wow, you're right about the arrogance thing. Now that I think about it, I think I always run into trouble when I start thinking that I'm doing pretty good, that maybe I've finally got it under control. That's when disaster strikes. I've definitely been working on changing my mindset so that I can be confident but not overconfident, hopeful that I'll learn to manage this addiction but not to the point that I let my guard down.

Glad you're making progress--keep on going strong!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 17, 2019, 04:13:37 PM
Day 5. Hey everyone. I am happy to say I had some urges but have been handling them well. Taking the time to write and THINK is so critical, I am working on the smart book each day. I notice odd feelings like not wanting to commit to NOT looking at girls. It's like woah that is such an irrational feeling. I took like 10 minutes writing about it to make sure I thouroughly knew not to listen to that feeling.

Now it makes no sense, but at the time of the emotion it was this odd thing like, "I can't commit to not looking at girls! It's okay it's not pmo! What if I fail and look at a girl it'll discourage and trigger me". I took the time and came to the conclusion.

1) Looking at girls bodies is not helpful to my reboot and can lead to strengthened urges.
2) They are real girls, but I can not rationalize staring at their bodies..... leering at a girl won't get me dates or friends. How about actually TALKING to them? Looking at there faces, seeing them as people?
If I really want a full social and dating life, like I claim I do. I can't be compulsively looking at girls bodies, thats just not socially appropriate, learn to be comfortable and normal around women, this is necessary for dating and being social.


On that note, I originally came to write about noticing my habits, some bad ones! But, it is good to be aware.

I ended up in a long conversation with some girls today, at times they seemed interested at other times not, eventually it fizzled out. But it was a long fun convo....

As soon as I walked away, I CAUGHT myself starting to feel bad... I noticed, that I nearly ALWAYS do that, I have a social interaction, it's pretty good and as soon as it ends, I make myself sad and regretful about it for one reason or the other. My mind is like honing missel trying to find everything that went wrong.

It is bizarre, but I am glad that I noticed it! If I am aware of this tendency it is weaker and I can change it.

I remember reading once that "depression takes lots of work", this really hit home! I notice my mind is going through quite a bit of gymnastics to turn something into a negative and find the negative. This is a wake up call, I am becoming aware that... honestly I am a far more negative person than I thought I was. I am gregarious and normally keep it inside, but internally I really do focus on the negative and look for it for more than I knew.... this is not a bad thing.... because if my mood is say a 4 or a 5 out of 10 now on average, when I take the time to change these negative habits perhaps it goes up to a 6 or 7 (which is pretty good! Aiming to always be deliriously happy is unrealistic in my opinion).

So anyway, I am glad I caught myself doing this, it is a definite pattern after many interactions, beating myself up. I really am going to be aware of this and make efforts to retrain my mind to look for the positive, be less hard on myself and have more realistic expectations. (Having a friendly convo with 4 girls I never met is actually really good! What is my mind thinking, like if they don't all beg me to hang out or party or hook up with them that it was a big loss? makes no sense).

As I wrote this I also realized, I had WANTED to interact with girls and humanize them instead of staring at there bodies. That is exactly what I did! I looked away very close to every time I caught myself looking at womens bodies and had long conversations with women just what I planned! So this is a big win and should be thought of as a positive!

About to eat some healthy food, and plan the rest of my day i suppose I actually have a good bit of free time which I haven't had too much of lately. (In part due to my own poor planning)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on March 17, 2019, 08:41:36 PM
Good insights, man!

I know exactly what you mean about feeling bad about social interactions after the fact. I always find myself feeling really weird and stressed after sending an email, writing a text, etc. After a few minutes, I ask myself, Why do I feel so weird? And then I realize, Oh, it's just because I sent an email. Like it's not a rational thing, just some kind of weird reaction I have to putting myself out there in any way. Just something to be aware of and work on, I guess.

I also get not wanting to commit to not looking at girls like that. I was listening to something recently about how our addictions are our mind and body's way of taking care of us in response to some distress. It's not a healthy response, but it still comes out of some impulse to take care of an unfulfilled need. Part of what I've been thinking about is what "positive" I get out of my addiction. And, frankly, the positive is that it gets me away from stress for a period of time (it is worse after, but that's still the motivation most of the time, I think). So, to make it shorter, it makes sense that you don't quite want to just up and commit because looking at women or porn does provide some benefit (a rush of dopamine that fills some gap in life). The trick, I guess, is to recognize what benefit the addiction provides and then to find healthier ways to find the same benefit. For me, that's involved slowing down the pace of my life, taking time out to meditate when my emotions get too intense, and just trying to take care of myself physically and emotionally so I deal with stress in a better way than zoning out to porn. So, I'd ask, what do you get out of leering at girls that you might be subconsciously reluctant to give up--and how can you get a similar benefit in a healthier way?

I don't know if that makes a lot of sense. I've only started thinking about it recently, but it feels like an important thing for me to understand.

Stay strong!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 17, 2019, 10:26:49 PM
Good insights! I may get back to you on that answer and do some thinking about it honestly. But I have some ideas. You know what, on second thought it ties in to what I came here to post about.

I thought I had a date for Tuesday but it fell through. I was a little annoyed about something it looking forward to it was buoying me up a bit. I took good care of myself today for the most part, so the emotions are actually a bit less intense than usual!

You know, I think a big big part of the addiction is, it's, as you said an escape a way to be sexual that is always there. Anytime you can go find a woman and look at her body. But the real world of being social and dating is messy and I can get frustrated. This does not mean to avoid it, it is something for me to work on.

I was quite excited to go on a date with this girl and was using it to look forward to and relax, then suddenly she cancelled very finally and aggressively. I feel pretty okay now, but in the past I'd feel very very upset.

So, I think that is it. Me wanting to use socializing and relationships and sex as a thing that is always there to boost me up, loose myself etc. but those things don't work that way. You can't control other people sometimes they are frustrating. So the replacement is the stuff I've been doing. Yes, I want to be social and I don't want to isolate myself. But it is necessary to have fun activities that nourish me and calm and rejuvenate me that I can do no matter what that are within my control.

Also here is the positive, really I made a mistake in setting the date up with this girl, and she made it very very clear what it was. I got a bit romantic on the text, saying we could walk along the beach. This is NOT a movie, that is actually a bit weird and made things too formal for her (we don't know each other well). I have learned from great teachers dates with women should never feel like a big deal. In early dates a girl does not want a geeky guy in a button up shirt giving her flowers, she wants to do something cool and it all to seem like no big deal to him. At least my generation and experience. Oh well lesson learned. I want to check my phone again but I can choose not too! Going to not check any more messages, eat some healthy food study a little bit and ready some good books until I sleep!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on March 17, 2019, 10:45:02 PM
Hey man, that's awesome that you're managing your emotions and thoughts so well, keep it up! I love the insight that you can't control other people; all we can do is accept what others do and control what we can control (ourselves). While I know being alone isn't ideal, things could be worse; isolation could actually be insightful in small doses, especially if you are doing something fulfilling and fun, such as reading something enjoyable, meditating, pursuing other interests, etc. try to enjoy our own company (if that makes any sense haha)

I wouldn't worry too much about getting a girl too quickly- the process will become easier and more enjoyable as you go farther along your streak, if you focus on improving yourself more the attraction will become very natural and organic!

As far as casual first dates, my best experiences have been at bars and concerts :)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 18, 2019, 03:58:59 PM
Thanks bro! Thanks for the support, and that totally makes sense about the doses of being alone. Definetly going to keep that in mind and work on that. Sounds good, I'll be patient up the streak, improve myself let the dates happen as I progress. Important for me to be reminded of that right now. Good call, going to invite to a bar next time.


Hey man, that's awesome that you're managing your emotions and thoughts so well, keep it up! I love the insight that you can't control other people; all we can do is accept what others do and control what we can control (ourselves). While I know being alone isn't ideal, things could be worse; isolation could actually be insightful in small doses, especially if you are doing something fulfilling and fun, such as reading something enjoyable, meditating, pursuing other interests, etc. try to enjoy our own company (if that makes any sense haha)

I wouldn't worry too much about getting a girl too quickly- the process will become easier and more enjoyable as you go farther along your streak, if you focus on improving yourself more the attraction will become very natural and organic!

As far as casual first dates, my best experiences have been at bars and concerts :)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 18, 2019, 04:10:00 PM
Day 6

A little update. Last night I was a bit unhappy with, but honestly I don't think I really should be. I caught myself fantasizing about a girl for a bit in bed and I very briefly saw my mind go and fantasize about some porn induced fetishes, luckily I pulled my mind away each time. But man did it take effort. I ended up I believe dreaming about some sex and porn fetishes, I woke up feeling like I had broken my streak and bit down... But, our dreams we can not control, so no reason to be upset about it. It's all part of moving forward.

HOWEVER, I did realize. I could of handled my cravings better. For me I MUST, when I get cravings in bed at night, get out of the bed and do something else, even if for just a minute and repeat it until it goes away or I fall asleep. My most dangerous trigger is laying in bed at night.

I also realize, analysis is good but some parts of this are not about analysis. I just have to be tough. I can't analyze my way out of everything, sometimes it is just fucking hard and I gotta do it cause I want to heal BAD and gotta remind myself of that. NO matter how tired I am if I see my mind going to fetish fantasy I gotta get the hell out of the bed immediately or I am fucked, I know this from experience. So next time it happens, (prob tonight honestly, having urges and thoughts today) I am getting the hell out of bed. As if a snake were in the bed.

I can't analyze my way out of it, occasionally I will have a night with little sleep, just hopping out of bed or not being able to be in bed as it is too triggering. But the magic is, I lost wayyyy more sleep acting on it. If I engage in the fantasy I stay up all night anyway but fantasizing or PMOing and then I get insomnia for other nights too. So I do have to accept that part of this, is just not always sleeping perfectly, but everyone has bad nights of sleep here and there and in the long run I'll still get more sleep.

But to reiterate, something important to my recovery is the DECISION and commitment, that I am willing to stay up all night until a craving subsides. Just be willing to do that and not be a wimp who doesn't want to get out of bed when tired even when an addiction is literally on its way to basically screw my life.

In other news, pretty good day today. Hectic day at work but I felt I performed fairly well. Did a slighly lengthened meditation to ground myself, for the first time in 4 days or more my visualization was excellent and focused so I felt far better after. Also I squeezed in a little extra workout even thought I "had no time today". The rest of the day should be good, a few things to do and yoga which makes me feel great (I never ever want to go but I almost always feel soo much better after, it makes my body feel good gets rid of tension I didn't know I had and this in turn makes my mind feel good and calm too, at least for awhile)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 18, 2019, 04:50:19 PM
Short time ^ accurate up there. Some strong cravings in waves. Probably going to be a hard evening and night. Its okay just gotta be prepared. Today is going to be about fighting the addiction, I am ready. The cravings comes, go to something else, over and over and over. It's not the hardest thing in the world. People have run 100 miles without stopping, crossed deserts etc. It is what it is. Going to look at this as a good thing, each time the urge pops up and I do a healthy activity instead, I am weakening the addiction weakening those bad wires in my brain
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on March 18, 2019, 07:27:55 PM
Hang in there, man! This is where it really counts, and it's great to hear that you're approaching this wave of urges with a specific plan. Stick to your guns, and don't let these urges talk you into something you'll regret!

Best of luck with the night. I'm rooting for you!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 18, 2019, 10:29:27 PM
Thanks bro! I will stay vigilant, but I am happy to report that after around 4 hours of socializing and physical activity the urges have nearly entirely subsided! I came here to post about something else and nearly forgot how strong they were before.



Doing one of my activities, I decided I had an enemy lol. I pick a little something that someone seems to have done to me, and decide they hate me and they treat me differently from anyone else. I just had my mind on this person and being annoyed with them, later on they started talking to me and were super nice........ I went as far as wanting to quit going to this place and burn a bunch of bridges.

It shows me goodness, I have such large large holes in my mindset and thoughts and just ability to socialize with people. I just get upset too easily and have these wildly irrational self-sabotaging thoughts that make me want to isolate myself and quit things that are good for me. I am not writing this as a woah is me. I actually feel good that I am aware of this and how irrational my thoughts are and happy that I have not been acting on them. It is massive room for improvement just keep recoring them and disputing them over and over, meditate stay sober etc. when these are gone, wow my life will be a lot easier and better
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 18, 2019, 11:06:08 PM
Just to record so I do not forgot. I was going to write this the other day, if only I can learn to apply my brains creativity and intelligence to perhaps business or solving a world problem and not to creating urges and triggers lol. My brain can make the wildest connections to create an urge. Here is what just happened.

I am reading a book about a climber, he mentioned he never saw snow until he was 12 and it created his enthusiasm for climbing. Well, I thought there are everygreen trees in snowy areas. Oh everygreen trees, I was talking to this family at work and making small talk, I pointed out a tree that looks like an everygreen tree, that one girl agreed with me.. omg her body wow... etc. My mind wanted to jump right into fantasy land but I was well aware of it.

And all that happened in probably half a second.

My two hours of being urge free was nice while it lasted lol. At least not as intense I'd say a 4 outta 10.
Book about a climber-> Tree-> fantasize about girls body and the connections all make sense in my mind lol. I had one far crazier one yestarday, like my mind moved a few letters around of something I read and made sound like someone I saw in porn, what creativity, maybe once I get clean of this I should start looking for hidden patterns in the stock market..... lol
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 19, 2019, 08:08:12 AM
Day 7 I think? ( or 8? wil correct later).

In a rush only have a minute. So my "ohh great I feel better now, no cravings!" post was wrong lol. As I originally assumed had some strong cravings. Woke up feeling like fried shit. BUT reminding myself had I PMOed or something it'd be WAY worse, literally aside from my disappointment I would have slept even less and my brain gets all fucked up like straight up depression.

Mind kept going in to fantasy I think I could have stopped it sooner but I was pulling myself out of it every couple of seconds. I had one period where I was thinking about kissing a girl for maybe 2 minutes which even that I should have cut out. I did as I planned getting out of bed. The tough part was I woke up every few hours with strong cravings! I'd be half asleep and wake up and have like half a second to stop my mind. I woke up in a crazy sweat a few hours after falling asleep, then again at 4:00 am, the breakthrough was at 4:00 couldn't get rid of my cravings so I left my apartment and walked around for awhile, this was like a reset and get rid of it mostly.

Then I studied and finally fell back asleep. It was hard it kind of sucked at first, but I just got out of bed and didn't try to force myself to sleep it was much better. So this is how I ought to treat the crazy cravings at night... just treat them as insomnia. Don't try and force self to sleep just chill about it and LEAVE the apartment (if needed or as a step 1) then do other stuff like study until I get tired again. (Reading in bed is nice but not enough the thoughts and fantasies come in strong, must be prepared to leave the bed.)

I think tonight'll be easier but I still know what to do if the cravings come, I'll leave the apartment way sooner as that ended it far more easily it just like broke the pattern. 
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 19, 2019, 02:11:11 PM
Mostly good and some bad. Getting through those cravings last night seems to have rewarded me with feeling good today. Just far calmer then before not super happy just contented, calm and content is actually a really nice feeling and has been a rare one for me. Not that I am always sad but my positive states tend to errr on the side of excited. Felt quite calm, great reminder to always push through, it feels better later.

The bad: I napped it was great (had unexpected free time) I started on my tiny couch it was uncomforable so I went in bed, I felt slight urges popping up. I woke up, tried to nap more and I fantasized a little bit about some women I knew and a past girlfireind. The fantasy was mostly stuff that happened and just regular sex and intimacy but still, I want to cut that out. I could see it triggering me. AND, not sure if I mentioned for me I used to go like into a trance fantasizing for hours about some of my fetishes. I consider it part of the addiction, so for me, fantasizing while in bed about sex is a gray area. Maybe I don't consider it breaking my streak but, I want to be quite careful. And why not live in reality? I am alone in bed, I want to learn how to really be able to enjoy that time, reading perhaps thinking about my day, thinking about space who knows....

My brain has brained trained that bed is a time that is almost purely sexual in a twisted lonely way (imagining women there porn etc.) That is NOT the same as actually being with someone. BUT being present and happy when alone will if anything make it better if I am dating a girl. The separation between fantasy and realitie worlds is important.

One good thing was, I had the urge to fantasize about some porn induced fetishes an image that has been haunting me and a strong trigger popped into my head. I thought of it and gained some clarity, this fetish and fantasy is not even really sexual if I think about it.... Like it doesn't even make sense and is so far from reality....

That was nice and lost me the urge, it was like wait, what am I actually thinking? So thats some progress. But still time to be cautious and not replace that with fantasizeing obsessively about real sex. Compulsions, especially for me and sexual ones are never good


EDIT: Okay enough posting for today. Just s simple commitment. The rest of today and the three days following no conscious sexual fantasizing AT ALL. Simple, not let things get out of hand. Make the commitment and decision now, not have to think about it.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 20, 2019, 12:01:29 PM
Day 7 (8?) My organization could use a lil work lol.

Feeling pretty good. I can do a lot more than I thought. Like my posts last few days were like "my mind started thinking about sex". I decided not to do that and the second I even thought about thinking about thinking about sex I shut it down and got along with my day.

Saw some attractive women, my reaction was far less inense. i was like "oh niice, oh wait look away". Rather than like my heart racing etc. No sex thoughts nor foreplay either. Just enjoy my day think about other things.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on March 20, 2019, 08:16:19 PM
Just catching up on your journal now--keep it up! I recently caught myself looking at women throughout the day and using them as like light porn. I had never realized it before, but it was definitely a trigger for me. Something I'm working on, and it's good to hear you are too.

Also your experience reading is relatable to me. I don't know how many times I've been reading a book when my brain thought it saw a sexual word somewhere else on the page, so my eyes darted there only to see some other word that was spelled differently. Our brains do crazy things to us, but it's cool that we're becoming more aware of it. There's no way to get back in control without first becoming aware, so I think it's a great thing to recognize
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 20, 2019, 10:56:11 PM
Great point! Good way to look at it.... the awareness is huge. Meditation is helping me.

My update: Had a good day, felt sad on way home, very early "I need a woman" feeling- which is really the very early start of a craving im0. But honestly reading others posts and replying to support has me forgettting about it. I can just rest up and enjoy a nice book until I go to bed, if I have energy maybe I'll pop in a local bar but probably not. Tomorrow I am going out though, would like to socialize a bit.

Just catching up on your journal now--keep it up! I recently caught myself looking at women throughout the day and using them as like light porn. I had never realized it before, but it was definitely a trigger for me. Something I'm working on, and it's good to hear you are too.

Also your experience reading is relatable to me. I don't know how many times I've been reading a book when my brain thought it saw a sexual word somewhere else on the page, so my eyes darted there only to see some other word that was spelled differently. Our brains do crazy things to us, but it's cool that we're becoming more aware of it. There's no way to get back in control without first becoming aware, so I think it's a great thing to recognize
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on March 20, 2019, 11:29:41 PM
That's awesome that you're meditating, I need to start doing that every day as I've been only doing it 2-3 times a week. It seems like you did a good job of applying awareness to negative emotions, as feeling sad is a very natural, normal thing for all humans, and you were able to turn that feeling into helping others on this forum and doing what's best for you!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 21, 2019, 01:08:55 PM
Thanks bro! Today has been pretty tough. Very anxious and confused mind all over the place, been obsessing over whether to go try a new hobby or not (is it too much, do I have enough time?). Pretty irrational thoughts as I could go just today and don't need to take this hobby on forever by trying it once lol. Anyway, yeah thats pretty much it, pretty bad withdrawal.

I should note: what my mind is telling me is, 1) I don't have time to go to this activity 2) I need to go and talk to girls instead.

I should note: Yes I do want to socialize more and put more into my dating life and skills with women. But, when I was feeling good I badly wanted to do this hobby, now when I have bad withdrawal and urges, and feel crazy my brain is telling me. You have to skip the hobby! And, you should go looking for women (likely a bad idea in this state and to impulsively do what, find a girlfriend walking around a mall???). That is very irrational, it's basically a setup, feel desperate for female attention and go try and get it in a sure to fail way and then go home feeling terrible and super triggered. It's almost like a setup by the addiction... man I am glad I posted as I did not notice that until now.  So I still feel nuts but may as well trust the decision I made when I was at my best, go do the hobby. Try it out and see how it goes, no commitments. AND I will go out tonight to socialize and can talk to girls then, in a PLANNED and rational way.

My commitment:
Go do the hobby
Go out and socialize for at least an hour tonight
Do my 30 minutes of working on the smart book.
THAT is it- I have more I want to do, but will consider anything else icing on top for today. (I feel quite overwhelmed, so am simplifying and keeping the main commitments and the crucial (daily smart workbook)


quote author=pichaelthompson link=topic=16884.msg172761#msg172761 date=1553142581]
That's awesome that you're meditating, I need to start doing that every day as I've been only doing it 2-3 times a week. It seems like you did a good job of applying awareness to negative emotions, as feeling sad is a very natural, normal thing for all humans, and you were able to turn that feeling into helping others on this forum and doing what's best for you!
[/quote]
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on March 21, 2019, 08:21:02 PM
Sounds like a good plan!

Meditation has been a huge part of my recovery the last two years or so. It has made a huge difference, especially lately. One of the things I've been realizing it that there is time. Sometimes I want to rush and do everything now, but I'm trying to realize that it's okay to do things one at a time.  (I think the wanting it now is part of what fuels my addiction, and I'm thinking about how that impatience affects other parts of my life.)

I guess what I'm saying is, based on what feels right for you, don't worry about only focusing on your hobby and recovery now. Socializing is an important step probably, but maybe it doesn't have to come right now.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 22, 2019, 12:18:24 AM
You hit the nail on the head right there.... I was quite stressed, part was cravings I bet, but a large part of it, was I was trying to do too much. Honestly the hobby WAS a mistake, that was actually correct. I already have re take up an old hobby, have a new hobby AND want to socialize more and am doing a lot of career stuff. That is already almost too much! One thing at a time, constant new hobbies wouldn't be all that rewarding, going to appreciate what I am already doing.

Update: Feeling much better, I don't feel good but I am sort of happy. A bit proud of myself that I pushed through and did some good actions I did not want to do. I did look at women's bodies a bit today, but kept my mind clear. Looking forward to a nice night of sleep and a even better day tomorrow : )


Sounds like a good plan!

Meditation has been a huge part of my recovery the last two years or so. It has made a huge difference, especially lately. One of the things I've been realizing it that there is time. Sometimes I want to rush and do everything now, but I'm trying to realize that it's okay to do things one at a time.  (I think the wanting it now is part of what fuels my addiction, and I'm thinking about how that impatience affects other parts of my life.)

I guess what I'm saying is, based on what feels right for you, don't worry about only focusing on your hobby and recovery now. Socializing is an important step probably, but maybe it doesn't have to come right now.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 22, 2019, 08:08:19 AM
Edit: Day 10 today!

Woke up feeling pretty awful, went back to bed to rest. But caught myself saying "I am horny" over and over feeling desparatly "horny". That is an urge right there.... Glad to have gotten out of bed and post here again.

Perhaps I ought to be more careful about looking at girls, was around quite a few last night and that contributed for sure. Also I may have been over ambitious with the schedule I created for myself, could of used a bit more sleep.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on March 22, 2019, 11:45:25 AM
Nice job! Perhaps your schedule may have been too much, but in my opinion it's better to over-exert yourself and then find the balance after adjusting than being lazy/giving into urges, like lifting too many weights....your muscles might be sore after but they will definitely be alot stronger!

Unfortunately, we live in a world of instant gratification so we expect instant results from the positive changes we make. Sometimes we do not see things getting better day by day, but in the long run we can look back and realize all our suffering was well worth it :)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on March 22, 2019, 07:23:02 PM
Exactly--just keep at it, adjusting as you go. I got back into bread-baking recently, and even when you have all the ingredients mixed together, you still have to give it time to rise. I really think recovery is like that. Even for all that we're trying to do, time is a part of the healing process, and I have to keep reminding myself of that when progress feels slow.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 22, 2019, 10:49:05 PM
Thanks for the support guys. Sorry if this post is not too informative. Man, I feel pretty bad today. I guess this is withdrawal and could not be considered anything else. Before this journal I had some really bad slips every few days, so I guess this is what happens.

Luckily I have held 95% of it in, but I have spent a good portion of the day ruminating on things, being ludicrously angry and feeling desperate to be dating and have female company. Goodness emotions are odd, in the moment, I can not imagine feeling happy and think the only thing that would make me happy is a girl with me, sex or something. But logically I know and can remember just a few days ago being totally happy and not even worried about whether I found a girl or not....

Well glad to write this as putting that on paper gives me perspective and helps realize this will pass....

I found that if all else fails intense exercise can get me through a lot of these emotions, so I may just accept over exercising for a few days here and there, being a little sore and physically tired won't kill me. Early I felt like a cross between strong anxiety and extreme anger, I quite in the middle of my visualizing as I was so furious that I heard a lawn mower outside. But then I just worked out hard, just for a few minutes and felt far better after.

Cardio vascular exercise seems the key, as a hack. If all else fails to get rid of some of these crazy emotions. I am very tired but may end up doing some tonight.

You know, that is a big win..... I had some of the strongest emotions I have had in a looonnngggg time and the way I handled it was to go exercise, it was almost instinct, that is a big win a healthy way to handle my emotions.

So I feel like shit and it's been very hard to see the big picture today, but I am still making progress. Still I must be vigilant an urge popped up even as I wrote that very sentence. I gotta remember, put in the work now. Often a night like this, the day after I will have a very lovely day as a reward for getting through it..

Edit: Sorry some grammar and spelling errors here, I am quite out of it. It's honestly almost interesting to me, I speak another language fairly well and literally spoke it to 25% of my ability awhile ago, couldn't have even a basic conversation the brain is such a funny thing.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 22, 2019, 10:51:50 PM
Good point, I have followed a schedule like this before but I simply have to put more effort into my reboot then in the past, so it's a lot. I think I will ask less of myself.... it could make things a hell of a lot easier.

Nice job! Perhaps your schedule may have been too much, but in my opinion it's better to over-exert yourself and then find the balance after adjusting than being lazy/giving into urges, like lifting too many weights....your muscles might be sore after but they will definitely be alot stronger!

Unfortunately, we live in a world of instant gratification so we expect instant results from the positive changes we make. Sometimes we do not see things getting better day by day, but in the long run we can look back and realize all our suffering was well worth it :)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 22, 2019, 10:53:17 PM
Great point! I feel like shit right now, but good to keep that in mind. So long as I am moving forward in time doing the right things, I am progressing. Even though at this moment, my brain is flipping out cause I feel about as bad as I did on day 0. But it's all part of the process.

Exactly--just keep at it, adjusting as you go. I got back into bread-baking recently, and even when you have all the ingredients mixed together, you still have to give it time to rise. I really think recovery is like that. Even for all that we're trying to do, time is a part of the healing process, and I have to keep reminding myself of that when progress feels slow.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 22, 2019, 11:07:04 PM
I need a rest tomorrow BUT I just remembered, having goals written out is huge to me. I stopped reading mine and they are a bit outdated. I am going to spend 30 min or an hour writing goals and aside from errands I must do. THAT IS IT. For tomorrow (plus my damn 30 min of smart lol.

So an hour of work, then just enjoy myself nap and read no burdens. Recharge
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 23, 2019, 10:46:29 AM
So, I made a bit of a mistake last night but it could have been far worse. In short I fantasized about porn and some of my fetishes last night, I am not sure for how long. Then I was fantasizing about sex with a past girlfriend (not nearly as bad).

This is not the absolute worst thing in the world, but still I do want to consider the fantasy about porn something of a lapse. BUT, I can see it is nothing like pmo. I came as close to looking at porn as is possible.

The good, is that I actually was able to fantasize and not pmo and actually eventually lost interest. It is also good that I DID NOT of course look at p or m which would have been a major disaster.

The bad is, this is not good for my recovery and is, perhaps a small step back. What is also bad, is I had the feeling that there is no way I could have stopped myself from doing it. I had this incredibly intense exhaustion I did get out of bed etc.

But thats not true, I could have done a bit better most likely. 1) Being more prepared- I felt horrifying during the day but did not recognize it as a strong urge, just was feeling crazy emotions. When I feel that way I should prepare myself for a tough night. Prepare mentally and decide in advance I may not sleep.

2) As a few of you have said, I must soften my schedule a bit. I started a new job and it is more stressful then I realized.  Often when I am not working at something, I am mad at myself. Simply going to ease on myself, take more leisure give myself time for naps, tell myself I am allowed to nap rest and sleep during day. I'll have more energy to avoid urges at night and it'll be easier mentally to stay up all night if I need to, if I know it's okay for me take a long nap and not be productive all the time.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on March 23, 2019, 06:57:57 PM
Hang in there bro! I've been getting alot of urges too, for me it pops in my head and even if I dismiss it, it often comes back sooner than I expected. If I were to count all the minor urges, it could be upwards of 100x a day (or more). Just sharing to let you know you're not alone in this struggle, and we can always do positive and healthy things regardless of what happens in our head! I hope you can get some sleep, I understand it is hard when your thoughts are racing and you're emotional but do everything you can to calm your mind down. For me, it helps to go back to my meditation practice- I try to focus on my body sinking into the bed, notice all the physical sensations, as well as "hearing" the silence around me. Best of luck to you
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 25, 2019, 04:24:32 PM
Thanks bro! Just a real brief check in. I was still fanasizing a bit last few days. Some challenges going on and very off track. Will look to reset over the next coming days. At least I am PMO free!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on March 25, 2019, 06:56:09 PM
Hang in there, man, you're doing the right thing!

I think you're right that fantasizing isn't quite the same a full relapse but also isn't good. I know those fantasies, which have been coming in and out of my head the last couple days, are usually the first step towards a relapse. So it's good to be aware of them early and to find a way forward without relapsing.

We're all in this fight together, and we'll win in the end!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 26, 2019, 08:25:59 PM
Thanks Bro!

So, I had a few realizations recently. I was being waayyyyy too hard on myself. Trying to be perfect. Instead of doing everything right, do the things that really matter right.

That being said: I am resetting the clock. Today is day 2. For a simple reason. I have big issues with a very particular type of fantasy about porn induced fetishes. I did that for a few days. I need very specific things I am cutting out/ definition of clean.

No PORN No Masturbation No Self induced orgasm/ or anything self induced sexual like idk rubbing on something.
No engaging in porn induced fetishes. No fantasizing conciously about porn induced fetishes.

Fantasizing about real women and vanilla sex= separate. I may want to lower it/ not over do it. But It is CLEARLY NOT part of my addiction. I think trying to cut out 100% of sexual thoughts caused me problems.

So anyways. Not much to report. I feel a lot better. I barely fantasized about the porn induced fetishes two days ago and did not yestarday nor today. Feeling pretty good, attracted to real women. Not trying so hard to do everything. Not over analyzing. Just keeping it simple, cut out the addiction stuff and be soft on myself on other things.

I mean honestly: I have had no junk food in months, eating a perfect day by my standards (literally), I have been working out almost every day, I have not used the internet or streamed any shows only using it for useful stuff. (for months! (except for my brief lapes)). I am in a pretty good spot. I don't really even have any super unhealthy activities left.... I also have been doing well in my current hobbies.

So the key is handle the really important stuff and be softer on myself.
1) Better job
2) Everything else- just keep it up.

I was trying to do so much shit at once and be perfect. I got annoyed at someone today... but they were actually being annoying! Like even time I got irritated I viewed it as a big problem and was ruminating, for me the big problem was trying to be perfect I think.   
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on March 27, 2019, 01:07:33 PM
Sounds like a really good plan! It seems the simpler you make life the better, you can just flow from one thing to the next because you don't have to overthink anything. Keep it up!

BTW I've had to reset as well, I'm confident both of us will come back wiser and stronger
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on March 27, 2019, 07:46:10 PM
That does look like a great plan. I know the pressure of wanting to fix everything all at once, but that's just a sure way to get even more frustrated, which, for me, usually leads right to porn.

Recovery takes time, and we've got years of life still to live. I think there's a lot of wisdom in slowing down and doing fewer things more carefully instead of wearing ourselves out with a lot of stuff all at once (and failing at it all)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 27, 2019, 10:44:21 PM
Thanks guys! Great insights. Sorry to hear about the reset pichael, hopefully we can both come back better, as you said. It does not erase all of our progress.

Great point Blue..... it's like, for years there are so  many things I've wanted to do, it's all about patience. If I had focused on one for a year imagine how far i'd be....

Man, thats gonna be a big thing for me.... REALLY slowing down. Going with the flow a bit more.


Day 3: Had a pretty good day. Uneventful. I skimped on meditating for a few days earlier in week but did a bunch today and it was quite nice. Slept in a bit. Not gonna try and do too much at once. Tomorrow I am going to get up earlier, I have a few things to get done but may take the rest of the day easy. Build back up slowly.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 28, 2019, 03:20:15 PM
Day 4:

Solid day so far. Had some good meditation. Got some stuff done this morning, building up slowly.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on March 28, 2019, 08:09:27 PM
Awesome! Meditation is such a strength for me. Glad it's working for you too!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 28, 2019, 11:36:28 PM
Thanks! Making my focus smaller and focusing on having good quality meditation. It's good for that day but it compounds and will add up overtime.

Today, was a pretty good day. Got some stuff done, read a lot. Tomorrow I simply want to do a bit more. I was pretty tired may have a slight cold, if thats the case it is what it is, I'll take it easy for a couple days. If I don't have the cold then I'll do more tomorrow and especially Saturday.

The focuses will be: Work related study, apply to new jobs, more socializing. That is it and is plenty.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on March 29, 2019, 07:34:59 PM
Awesome. have a great weekend!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 29, 2019, 10:05:02 PM
Thanks bro!

I had a big realization, I stupidly have been doing fasting each week based on dumb crap I heard on the internet...... I am not overweight and have been like starving and lost muscle! I was wondering why I felt crappy a lot and this was it! Today I was starving at 11am and was not going to eat till 4, I talked to my mom and she is like this is so dumb. She was so right. Lesson learned: Solid healthy foods, no stupid fad diets. Anyway, I realize I've been at like 50% capacity since I have been starving myself lol. Ate a lot today and feeling better already.

So thats it for today, felt shitty but eating helped. Some lonliness but starting to take some more actions to socialize more and start dating again. Should set some goals, I'd like a date within two weeks, not a hard goal/deadline just me musing. I am confident I can do it. 
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 30, 2019, 10:24:37 AM
Feeling a good bit better for sure. Mood is up, finding it far easier to push aside cravings and thoughts. This morning I stayed in bed a bit resting and also fantasizing about real girls, this is something that I don't consider part of the addiction and is not the worst thing in the world but still I want to get up earlier tomorrow and not do that, as it really was just a waste of time. But again, not the end of the world. I am not going to try and cut out every sexual thought just the pmo and fetish fantasy.

My meditation was not too good this am, but thats okay. It is still good for me and will pay off later. Been skimping on workouts about to go do one!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 31, 2019, 12:32:39 AM
Hvaing an odd sort of craving, a craving to fantasize about my Porn induced fetishes not too strong but with this strong sense of complacency. Just sort of like.... a feeling of I am okay with fantasizing, I feel like doing it so I'll do it. It's cool to see that I actually totally control the action and can just not do it...

Luckily I decided to post here instead.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 31, 2019, 03:01:55 PM
Man, glad I made that post! I did NOT fantasize. Did not even fantasize about sex (not considered a relapse). I really enjoyed reading a book, it's nice I am seeing some changes for sure. I am sure ups and downs will come, but I am having moments where things are as I want. I really enjoyed reading in bed, found it a massive pleasure and got lost in it then slept well. I had some dreams just as I woke up about the fetish but it was mild, I may have even dreamed about having cravings, I am not sure. But Happliy, I got out of bed with my alarm and got back to reading.

For me reading is the BOMB. Like since I cut out bad habits I read my ass off, reading is my way of goofing off but it has none of the downsides of my other habits like youtube, pmo etc.

I also hung out with a girl today, I wanted things to go further, we got a little physical but she refused a kiss and I feel like things have fizzled at this point, reason being mostly that she is "seeing someone" back home. (She is here on vacation). But I still consider it a win, I enjoyed the time together, enjoyed real sexuality, as I touched her body a bit.

One of the coolest parts is, she is attractive, but I was not super attracted to her until I hung out with her for awhile and started to like her, then I was very attracted. This is huge! Because thats how my brain should be functioning.

So anyway, almost all good news, for today. Eating more is awesome. I notice I want to talk about what I should be doing, what I am doing wrong. But you know what, this is big for me, it's okay to just have a nice enoyable healthy day and accept and enjoy it, no changes or self analysis necessary.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on March 31, 2019, 05:05:37 PM
Just a few hours later.... so being seuxal with girls is good but can be a trigger! Just took a nap and was fantasizing about this girl a lot. Then had a thought go into my mind of fetish stuff... I immediately got out of bed! So this is good, it was a lot easier to stop it asap. Anyway, still gonna cut down on the sexual thoughts for the next couple of days, clear my head. Have a productive eveing. And watch myself, I am starting to rewire having better interactions with women, but the sexual feelings can let some of the addictive pmo thoughts start lurking around the corner, just gotta kick the pmo/fetish thoughts asses when they pop up!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on March 31, 2019, 08:15:22 PM
Glad you're staying clear of PMO! A big realization for me lately has been to notice all the ways that I've been reinforcing the addictive reward loop in my brain when I'm not using porn--staring at women on the street, on TV, etc. Even though those things aren't porn, I've realized that they do trigger me in that direction. So it's a good thing you're noticing how a healthier experience (not a relapse) might get your brain going in the wrong direction. But, hey, either way, you're making progress towards normal--and that's a huge win!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 01, 2019, 12:34:17 AM
Thanks bro! Yeah, it's just something I have to be aware of. I noticed in previous reboots, when I would finally get sexual with a girl I would end up in PMO fantasyland even with the girl right there! It was nuts.

But overtime it would mostly stop.


It's like the PMO thing is separate from real sexuality. But by some weird crossed up brainwires any sexuality can create a bit of an urge, but by avoiding pmo and rewiring (carefully!) the wiring returns to normal.

I went out with a friend and had a pretty bad night. It was odd, I believe every girl I spoke to had a bad reaction to me. Honestly, I bought a new shirt and my friend and I discussed it, it made me look super awkward and nerdy. I honestly think that was it, man how you dress is really really important. Like the shirt just made me look goofy.

Edit: I guess I can just be honest and say, I feel quite shitty right now. Just down and a bit hopeless. Really sad, and just this sense of hopelessness, it's a little strange. I am not going to fall asleep for awhile, I can feel and have a weak urge,  I literally can feel it in my crotch area, quite physical. Anyway, I am just gonna keep it simple. I prefer real books, but I found a funny ebook I'll read it for awhile and just forget the day. (remember it did start off great, just the night was bad. But my emotions don't feel that)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 01, 2019, 12:50:05 AM
Holy shit got a super strong urge just now. Vivid, just popped into my head
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 01, 2019, 08:27:22 AM
Well, I fetish fantasized, a bit last night then a bunch this morning. Catching it earlier is pretty important. So when I fantasized in bed about regular sex, that was a bigger problem then I realized MUCH bigger. If I am honest that was the turning point. I had a great day, had a good time with the girl, then I was tired and I decided to go in bed and fantasize about that girl. I realize fantasy about sex in bed is a big issue, I like go into a trance. So I really gotta cut that shit.

It was after that, my mood was totally different felt off and in hindsight, slightly triggered. Then had the really bad night and just wanted to fantasize. Funny how the mind rationalizes, I was like I shouldn't do this, it's a bad habit. Then the EXACT thought was "it's okay, I will never have a night this bad again so I will fantasize just for tonight".

PURE BULLSHIT: The night was not that bad.

I was on my couch reading with a strong urge, then got in to bed to read. I think I had already made a decision to fantasize awhile ago. I got a bit complacent, I was super tired. I think I needed to leave my apartment for a bit, maybe exercise. I was having a pretty easy time the last few days, so I simply was not prepared. AND I was triggered by the whole, feeling like I have no girls/ dating prospects mindset. Siggghhhh, well a lot to be learned here.

At least still PMO free, but gotta step it up with cutting out the fantasy AND remember just idk 20 hours ago I was feeling great

OH and One HUGE thing, the key actually. The ebook was a huge problem and honestly I think that one factor if removed could have kept me away from the fantasy..... Reading on screens is nowhere near the same and I was reading this awful book that is supposed to be funny "good reasons to punch a dolphin in the mouth". It was supposed to be funny but was just  a bunch of shitty cartoon drawings of violence with some sexual images how stupid to read in hindsight. I had good intentions but was hard headed.

I was like reading it, feelling bad and triggered and I was like thinking "keep reading, when you read the triggers normally pass". That is true but reading on the screen is simply not the same and this book was crap, these lame ass cartoons on a computer screen. It was like surfing the internet on some backwater shitty website, which normally is a big trigger for P. Oh well, lesson learned. I already knew ebooks and reading on screeens SUCKS. I am offically cutting it out of my life permanently. Real books only, I swear the brain waves are not the same it is an entirely different experience and activity actual reading versus looking at a screen at words.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on April 01, 2019, 06:50:10 PM
Man, sorry to read what you've been putting up with, but I'm really glad to hear you're getting through it without PMO. All of this is valuable learning, and it's great that you're writing it out and thinking it through. I think that will make you more aware and capable of dealing with these triggers in the future.

Sorry, too, about feeling down. I know the feeling, no prospects or even hope of prospects, also just feeling off. I catch myself feeling weird about social things after the fact all the time. Like I send an email and feel weird for a day and can't figure out why I feel bad and then remember it was just that email and everything's fine. Probably, those girls weren't reacting as badly as you thought, but that doesn't change the way it felt.

I guess all I'm saying is that I know the feeling. Hang in there: strong urges can be really tough to deal with, but I'm sending good vibes your way. You can do it!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on April 02, 2019, 11:37:08 AM
Hey man, I'm sorry for the bad night you had. I had a regretful night too, one of the girls I was talking to told my friend I was being weird and backing away while she was talking to me...and I didn't even notice it at the time. It made me feel like everything I thought I was doing to "better myself" really wasn't helping at all, and I honestly thought for 1 second that if I just did a quick PMO my head will clear up and I'll be easier to get along with. I guess a small step I took was that I reminded myself that PMO is what led to being this way in the first place! Keep your head up, all we can do is learn from the past and move forward with a positive mindset.

Great job trying to cut out fantasizing, I realized that even if my fantasies are about real women I like they are just as fake because it is about my personal image of the woman rather than the actual person...keep it up!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 02, 2019, 11:43:26 PM
Bluehero:Thanks bro! I appreciate the perspective, I feel pretty bad about the fantasizing but this whole time, since starting the journal, I have been pmo free and that is something to be happy with. Instead of my usual "look for whats wrong" habit. I can just be like no pmo is great! Now I want to step it up even more and cut the fantasy out... I am motivated to handle that though, get this shit handled once and for all.......

Good point on that.... it felt the girls were reacting so badly, I didn't even question that it may not be as bad as I perceived. Also the no prospects thing, emails, it's uncanny how so many of thoughts and feelings I read from others are identical to my own. Thanks for the good vibes! I'll keep them in mind and that should help!

Pichael- I can relate to that, I can get really upset and ruminate on small social things that end up being no big deal in the end. I was just working on slowing down my speaking (I speak toooo fast) and I felt so awkward and weird. I want to focus on the big picture. I read a bit of this book by the basketball player Kobe Bryant, he said he always had the big picture in mind, he would try new moves and did not care at all if he messed up, because he knew by trying the moves he'd be a better basketball player, it just would take time  and seeing the big picture.

Yeah, I was too complacent on fantasizing and that led to my fantasizing about porn/fetishes. For me it's a big issue, like I can fantasize about it for hours, not good for the brain. So gonna tighten that stuff up.


UPDATE: Day 1 (fantasy free)- You know, I should give myself a pat on the back, got a lot of very important work done to start the day (as I planned). Read a lot, tried a few new solitary activities. Two possible new things to add in: Gratitude stuff, writing things I am grateful for and affirmations. I noticed I am not even comfortable with the idea of myself being attractive to women naturally. So I perhaps will write affirmations for a few weeks to at least get myself comfortable with the idea. Pre severe PMO addicition I used affirmations and found I certainly benefited.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: username is not available on April 02, 2019, 11:58:25 PM
I noticed I am not even comfortable with the idea of myself being attractive to women naturally. So I perhaps will write affirmations for a few weeks to at least get myself comfortable with the idea.

I think I have the same problem
It seems like I'm blind
When women are attracted to me I just can't see it and sometimes realize it months after that a girl liked me
I feel dumb and have regrets over this..

One time a girl told me she loved me and I just ignored her cause I thought she was kidding
The thought she could actually like me didn't even cross my mind till years later
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 04, 2019, 02:25:14 AM
With you on that. Crazy how the mind works. I had an older guy who is now a ladies man type tell me how when he was younger when women looked at him he always thought it was because he had something on his face, then in his 30s he realized they were attracted to him and started dating them lol.

Well, not noticing women liking us is better then women not liking us at least....

I noticed I am not even comfortable with the idea of myself being attractive to women naturally. So I perhaps will write affirmations for a few weeks to at least get myself comfortable with the idea.

I think I have the same problem
It seems like I'm blind
When women are attracted to me I just can't see it and sometimes realize it months after that a girl liked me
I feel dumb and have regrets over this..

One time a girl told me she loved me and I just ignored her cause I thought she was kidding
The thought she could actually like me didn't even cross my mind till years later
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 04, 2019, 02:32:38 AM
Day 2: Good day today. I  luckily had little to do. I had some withdrawals I think but was able to essentially entirely get rid of them and feel great.

I had this constant antsy feeling and my heart would not stop racing this morning. I kept listening to relaxation recordings and meditating, that helped a little. But my heart would not stop racing and I had trouble sitting still, it was bizzare this strong physical reaction that would not go away. I am talking hours straight.

But then,I went for a super super hard run. A very hard route where I wanted to stop and walk for almost the entire time. I did it with the intention and thought "if I push myself hard enough, there is no way my heart will still be racing after, the withdrawals will be gone". I just had the instinct that I just had to push myself super hard physically. So anyway, that is what I did.

In terms of a prolonged hard workout, it is the hardest I have done in a long long time. The whole time I kept thinking to myself "by pushing myself I am purging myself of the addiction and getting rid of the withdrawal".

It worked! By the end I was so tired it was impossible to feel anxious physically or mentally, I was able to really rest and read some nice books. The rest of the day, I still managed my emotions carefully (exercised more, practiced mindfulness) but really felt quite good and was able to control my emotions and thoughts for the rest of the day.

I have family visiting which'll be nice. It's possible I won't have as much time to post. But it'll be a good time.

Gonna keep on with this stuff. Cutting the fantasy is a priority. I was thinking, I really have struggled with this addiction for a loonngggg time, I likely have addiction related brain changes. It's time to really cut it out. No left overs no vestiges, no keeping it alive with fantasy.

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on April 04, 2019, 08:40:30 PM
I've definitely felt that heart racing feeling before, I think it's bc our body is used to something (PMO, fantasizing) that it thinks it needs to survive, but it is only because we conditioned it that way. Working out helps me out alot too....I kind of realized that my brain will always try to play tricks on me to get me to fantasize, so it's natural to slip up sometimes....as long as I catch myself fantasizing and go back to doing what I do, I try not to make it a big deal. Try not to put too much pressure on yourself but at the same time keep your goals clear in your head, that balance is important I think :)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 05, 2019, 04:46:06 PM
Thanks bro! Very great point, goal in mind but not too hard on self. Thats a good lesson, will focus on it today. Just calmly enjoying putting in some work on my projects.

Day 3: I had some nice time with family. Started off still feeling some withdrawals, and felt bad about it since I felt I should be happier. I just sucked it up and saw my family was still super happy and did not notice, so it was nice to realize it's not all about me and they were happy so I could still have a good time. After that, I had a great time too! I get much done which I am totally fine with, but I kept up my meditating which has been AMAZING.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on April 05, 2019, 06:55:15 PM
Glad you're making progress, meditating, cutting out fantasies, and all the rest!

It's been so great to be a part of this community and to see that the struggles I face are not unique and to see that other people are having success battling the same problems.

What you were saying about not believing that women could be attracted in you really hit home for me. It's just not something I believe could be possible, and I always have one of these three thoughts when I learn someone is interested: 1) that it's not real, 2) that they'd stop being interested as soon as they learn about my struggle with PMO, or 3) that I'm not interested back and why can't I find someone that I'm interested in who's also interested in me? None of those are very helpful thoughts, probably. But that's where I am. Our addicted brains sure have done a number on us.

Let's all hang in there! We'll get it all worked out in time
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on April 05, 2019, 09:49:59 PM
That's nice you got some family time, always good to be around people that support you unconditionally! I'm totally with you on the "wishing I was happier" feeling, that was me most of last weekend. The fact that you were able to still have a good time regardless shows alot of mental strength and resilience which will definitely pay off in the future. Keep it up!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 05, 2019, 09:57:52 PM
Thanks Guys! Really appreciate the kind words and can relate.

A big one for me, I think is finding the right balance in terms of not being hard on myself. I want to be easier on myself BUT at the same time be disciplined and control what I can control. I.E not skip out on things I don't want to do that are good for me. I am really enjoying the mindfulness and like how I am aware of my emotions.

I got quite upset about something, but decided to go dance for a bit and felt way better! Just passed a bar didn't worry about anyone else and just danced and felt better! It's not specific to dancing, I am enjoying this essentially new found ability to be like wow, my emotions are crazy! Then take an action that is healthy to fix them.

Then I told a less supportive family member about something I was excited about.... and he just poked holes in it telling me everything that could go wrong and downplaying it etc..... so I was upset again, but I called a calm friend who luckily picked up and I feel much better now.

This is some key stuff. I can't 100% of the time always get rid of my emotions and will have to deal with them, but it's nice to have healthy coping methods, the withdrawal has me pretty emotional but I am glad that I can get super super upset recognize it, then take actions that I know will make it better.

For me it is: 1) Just recognize it! Don't think about it. 2) Be soft on self, I left an event a little early cause I saw my mind and mood going down the drain + getting irritable. A second part is to let it go... like my mind is thinking "never talk to this person again!" "never go to this club again etc!" just to forget that and move on to step three (to calm the mind first).

3) Do a healthy action I know helps me.
Exercise
Dance
Go for a walk
Look at something pretty like a tree or the water
Call a positive friend (if available)
Swim (have a pool!) big one!

So I can take one of these actions and feel way better! It's like calm the emotion first, then get more stuff done. Not making any decisions or taking actions while in that bad state.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on April 06, 2019, 07:36:28 PM
That sounds like a really good 3-step plan! Yeah it sucks sometimes when we feel like we have no control over our emotions, and it often seems to happen at the worst/inopportune times. I guess these moments in life are inevitable, but on the bright side they will come and then pass, like a rainy cloud covering up the sun; the sun will shine soon enough with enough care for yourself. Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on April 07, 2019, 06:56:42 PM
I'm with you in being in a weird emotional spot. For some reason I've been feeling nervous almost all the time the last few weeks. I think a lot of it is school related, but I've also had some weird social things lately because of a breakup last year. That relationship just wasn't right for me, but she's been pretty weird about it since.

Definitely going to be more deliberate about following a plan like yours to deal with these emotions. They've been going crazy, and I know they're related to the urges I've been feeling the last couple days. My brain knows that PMO can make me numb for a while, so it's doing its best to take care of me, but not this time! I'll work on finding healthier outlets for my feelings, like dancing!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 07, 2019, 08:30:40 PM
Thanks for the encouragement guys! I really ought to stop on this forum a bit more consistently, sometimes I am on a few times in a day then miss a few days. So much good knowledge I forgot!

Anyway two days ago was imperfect, I was fantasizing about a girl a bit and had some brief fetish fantasies pop into my head. But did not engage with them and pulled my self out of it..... still as we know, this is always something to watch.

Happily, I pulled myself out of it and today was much better. I realize a big issue there, was I was very underslept. It was wonderful to see family but it through off my sleep schedule, it effected me a good bit.

Bluehero- I am with you on the anxiety, I think it's related to this. I have heard many stories of people trying to check there phones less, it takes awhile but they realize that they get an anxious feeling before checking the phone.... So they have phone addictions, porn addictions are more powerful... It seems to me addiction or at least these digitial ones, hijack our fight/flight/anxiety system and use anxiety to get us to engage in the nonsense.

Doesn't mean those situations aren't actually stressful, but I bet the addiction/ withdrawal may make it worse.

Today: A very good day! I set some small goals for the day. Goals that were not just get this done or get that. Real tangible goals and I achieved them! I have a date tonight ( I think!) a bit nervous and my mind is trying to talk me out of it. (She is not really into you) (It'll be a waste of time) (It's not really a date) (You'll spend money and be pissed after).

But fuck the thoughts, I'll just go and have fun. It'll either be a good date or I'll learn and up my social skills
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on April 07, 2019, 08:58:45 PM
Hell yeah, congrats on the date! I think every guy pretty much has those thoughts about a first date, it helps me to remember that I'll never really know what the girl is thinking; and honestly that's for the best if it allows me to just be me, and whatever happens after that happens.

I'm also with you on the forum consistency; I don't want to abuse it and check 10x a day as a crutch for my urges, but at the same time don't want to abandon it and get too cocky/lose my vigilance. For me, I'm thinking a range of 2x a day at most, and once every 2 days at least is consistent but allows for some flexibility as well
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Do or die on April 07, 2019, 10:12:27 PM
I am at day 5 today. Please tell if you have nightfall problem.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: LeanAndBop on April 08, 2019, 09:00:11 AM
Hey Quit,

Hope your date went well, I can relate massively to the nerves/negative thoughts that can arise before such a situation.

Lack of sleep has a big impact on me also.

Peace,
Bop
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 08, 2019, 01:54:35 PM
Thanks Pichael, that is a great idea I am going to aim to stick to that. every other or twice max.

Thanks bop! Good to hear that, whenever I realize a lot of people have these thoughts, it makes me realize they are actually less likely to be accurate, they are just a natural mental quirk I guess.


Anyway, we ended up rescheduling the date for today. I let her plan the date and the place was about to close lol. We realized at the last minute then tried to reschedule.... I was then sure I'd never see her again. I was sitting in my apartment being upset about it, but then.... I remember a book I read and it was talking about how optimistic people, spend less time ruminating and more time just trying to fix the situation. So I was like fuck it, I'll at least try and take some action.

I called the girl and she definetly seemed still into me and even nervous when she asked me to reschedule for tomorrow (today) so the plan is to see her tonight. Wow, glad I did that. I was sure we were done for.

Oddly I got a girls number yestarday, but she has not responded to my texts. Truthfully THAT girl (the one whos number I got) is not one I want to date. She seemed very off. Sometimes I think I go for girls who are off and weird because I guess I feel weird and feel like those are the girls I can get. That is a mistake. Oh well, I have some worry since she works in an area I like to hang out and I wish I hadn't connected with her at all. BUT, I have found my worries are very often unfounded. It'll prob be fine, just say hi to her if we see each other and keep it moving.

The positive is: I have a date tonight in a much better situation, much more certainly a date with the same girl that I actually do like... and now I know, no matter what happens this girl DEFINITELY likes me. No doubt about it. So, pretty cool girls can like me for sure. Still feel like I am battling my own mind though (that other girl I met yesterday was weird, this girl probably has something wrong with her as well).

Oh well. I have some cool stuff to work on later today so I'll enjoy that
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on April 08, 2019, 07:00:24 PM
Way to be! I hope your date goes well.

I think it's cool too that you're recognizing what you aren't looking for in a girl. I know I end up thinking a lot that I'm so messed up that I'd just be lucky to have any girl be interested in me. But that's the wrong attitude. It doesn't reflect who I really am or who I'm working on becoming.

So don't let your addiction trick you into thinking you deserve less than you really do deserve! Good luck!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on April 08, 2019, 09:40:50 PM
I couldn't of said it any better myself, @BlueHeronFan! I get so needy and desperate for any girl when I used to PMO, but now I'm starting more to think about what I want to look for in a potential partner, someone I can grow with...that doesn't mean it has to be set in stone, but that also means standards should be raised. Good luck on your date @Quitforeverthenwin!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 08, 2019, 10:48:57 PM
Thanks so much for all of the support guys! I just finished the date, it was a learning experience. Looking at the big picture REALLY helped. It it was so helpful coming back and reading these comments. Like I wanted the girl really bad and felt like she was so great and then it ended, but then I come back and read the comments and it's like "oh yeah" there is a lot more to life. I've been reading you guys journals and getting support from you for weeks now... this girl I just met LITERALLY YESTERDAY!

It reminds me it's about the path, any one girl is not that important (until she becomes important! Like after years or something). Knowing a girl for a few days is no biggie.


So here's what happened from the beginning :

I set some dating goals for myself this month and I wanted to make that happen. I basically just talked to tons of girls yesterday, this one really liked me. Big for me, was letting it happen. We had the date planned for yesterday and it was moved.

I should mention: She is on vacation so a relationship was not in the cards no matter what....
She also texted me pre date. She could not stay long...

This girl obviously really liked me. We got to the bar, we talked. She was asking about getting a cocktail or something. I don't drink so she didn't order and we went to the beach. (I live in a waarrmmm city). (This may have been a mistake, next time just get club soda, the girl doesn't drink cause I don't then we had nothing to do.....). She was touching me a lot and initiating physical contact which is cool.

I took her to the beach. We went to these nice rocks but some dude had a headlamp on and was like searching for something lol. It creeped her out. I brought her to some other rocks I sat, eventually she came near me. We sort of kissed for two seconds and a giant wave hit us, we kept going, then another HUGE wave like went totally over us! We were like 15 feet from the water, it was some tidal wave shit lol.

So our kiss ended like literally as our lips had just touched lol.

My back is soaked, she is soaked. She starts saying she has to go soon. lol (I think she had said that earlier).

It was odd, she kept saying she had to go but was touching me. We kissed more. Then as we were walking she ordered an uber, said she'd see me soon and that she was leaving tomorrow (see me soon??)

I was a little lame, and was trying to convince her to come hang out where I lived. ( I didn't really know where else to take her). I am not even sure if I was ready for sex but really wanted the female company and to cuddle etc. Then her uber came super fast and that was that. She kept touching me a lot and saying she wanted to stay then suddenly she totally stopped was gone. (my brain is like: she just came to be a tease and get an ego boost!) Goddamn my fucking brain! I sort of believe that, she obviously DID like me, she may have just been conflicted or put off by my poor date management/ bringing her to headlamp creep and tidal waves lol.

Hmmmm.

You know, man life is a lot more complicated then pmo lol. I have had the tendency to get real down after knowing I won't see a girl again but.... I put things in perspective. I made out with a really pretty cool and that was fun! I got some rewiring in, so if sex does happen I am wayyy more prepared! AND I hadn't been on a real date in like forever. It takes time. Like movies have all this romance shit, you just meet the right girl etc, but at the end of the day, imo I gotta go on dates to get comfortable on dates. So, go on a few, do my best to meet girls and when I am running dates better (No waves, places to go; become MORE COMFORTABLE) I'll be dating girls!

Writing this I actually appreciate it a bit. The bad part is it happened so fast, it was like the blink of the eye and the girls gone. But man, thats some cool shit. I went on a date with a hot girl who was into me. We talked about ourselves, we started kissing on the beach and got hit with a damn tidal wave lol. The real world is not as controlled or instantgratification as online land but it's way better.

Now, the thing is... KEEP IT UP! Keep doing all the right things, be aware of a chaser effect that could happen from the sexuality and aim to keep meeting girls (though not as my number one priority) so that I can hopefully go on dates moderately consistently in order to know what the fuck I am doing lol (and then have all the good stuff real connection (That is built) real sex etc.

Gonna read a bit and use this as momentum and push myself tomorrow!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 09, 2019, 11:40:25 PM
Super quick check in: What is it Day 6?

Feeling good! I had a good day, meditated in am... Bought a ton of healthy food. Had a good day at work. Worked on a project, which I am glad I did. When I got home I felt really really off, but I went for a HARD late night run. That really helped. Exercise is like goddamn magic. I read a book recently like it's proven to boost mood for HOURS afterward. So anyway, I did the run and then worked through this self-help book that I am trying to work on daily for awhile. It is a great book. Funny, it's an old book from like 1970 I was reading a section about self image it listed the  causes of a poor self-image.

"Negativity"
"What people say"
etc. etc.
"And the worse one of all, that has just been around for the last 10 years; PORNOGRAPHY!" This dude was sharp as hell and way ahead of the curve lol.
The old classic self- help books are legit. No bs you can have everything; just practical, you can do a SHIT TON more then you think and no nonsense advice.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on April 10, 2019, 12:38:04 PM
That's awesome your date went so well! Yeah that does suck you don't get to see her again but atleast you know that you are capable of establishing connections with cool, fun, people...you'll have plenty of other opportunities in the future! I totally agree with you on the self-help books, they have helped me alot too, if you're looking for another one after you finish yours I would recommend "how to stop giving a fuck" by mark manson, the title explains it all lol (it's also pretty funny and entertaining)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: LeanAndBop on April 10, 2019, 01:39:00 PM
Sounds really positive Quit!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 10, 2019, 05:21:57 PM
Thanks guys! Yeah the funny thing is right after I felt bad about it. But once I wrote about it and thought about it I realized it was pretty good! I am ready to date more so I want to keep the momentum going. At some point my life is gonna change and real women are going to be a part of it. The only stopping that is me, so time to keep  it up and make that transition.

Things are going pretty well. I am beefing up my schedule a bit again. Meditation has been really good. Sleeping less, but in a good way. I was over sleeping.

Hmmm a big lesson I forgot to write about is, I went to a class for one of my hobbies and I was very frustrated, thought of quitting, my lessons I had paid for ran out. Then I went again on Monday. It did not go well for the first 45 min then I had a great time! I was so glad I didn't quit..... Also another hobby I worked on today was tough (not upsetting though). I am learning new things and having struggles but the thing I thought is....

When have I or anyone EVER regretted getting good at anything?

Like I am pushing myself learning to dance, I was frustrated-- Is it really possible I would go through all the struggles 6 months from now, be a very good dancer having fun doing it, dancing with women and think.... I regret this? Or is it more likely I'd quit, see awesome dancers and regret qutting??

The mind plays tricks. Persistence is key key key. If I had stuck with even a few more of the hobbies I have taken on to actually get good, I'd be one cool badass dude.


Rest of day, have a fun short social activity, then I may go out and aim to talk to women. Early in my reboot, this was an unhealthy desperate behavior, now it seems a healthy one, though I'll still watch myself to make sure it stays that way.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on April 10, 2019, 07:04:40 PM
Awesome reports! Glad it was an overall positive learning experience. And sorry about the tidal wave lol!

I definitely think learning patience is an important part of recovery. At least for me, relapses always seem to happen when something I want isn't happening right away. So then my brain says, well, we can get that high from PMO right now.

But good things, real things take time. Whether or not that girl actually does come back, you learned something and got one date better at dating. And that's awesome! One good conversation at a time, one date at a time, one day without PMO at a time, you'll end up right where you want to be.

Keep it up! And congrats on the progress!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 10, 2019, 08:07:10 PM
Thanks bro!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 11, 2019, 12:15:02 AM
Just here to complain right now I guess. Odd, I got suddenly exhausted and feel pretty damn bad. I was around a sick person yesterday and around my sick friend today. Hope I am not sick. Just feeling pretty damn bad at this moment. I guess I'll sleep in tomorrow (I don't need to be up early). Mentally off too. It could just be withdrawal. 
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 11, 2019, 08:44:42 AM
Man, this forum is really helpful. Keeping me on track and reminding me what is important to me. Aiming to help other guys is helpful to me too. I posted in mym8mary's journal yestarday about how being willing to forgo sleep for a night is important yestarday... and that is exactly what happened to me last night. It was very fresh in my head "oh yeah this is what I talked about, it's late I am tired I feel sick well if I don't sleep, I don't sleep"

I was a bit sick, was interrupted during my meditation (but went back and re did it!) and at a certain point could not sleep. I accepted it, got to sleep damn late.

But you know what? I was 100% clean. Didn't even let me self think about women at all. I am a little sick (though optimistic I can rest up and feel better in a few hours) didn't sleep the greatest but man I feel good about that. That was a rough night and I was so aware. "Okay here I am, I am feeling sadness, I am feeling ummm shitiness. lol I am thinking maybe I want to just think about a girl and regular sex in bed...... you know I'd rather not do that my habits in bed are changing the urges have been weaker here lately how about I read; if I don't sleep I don't sleep it won't kill me..."

And now here I am, didn't sleep and I do feel quite good about that last night, I certainly could not have done that, definetly not in that way a few weeks ago. Pretty much calmly sidesteppping cravings accepting problems and bad feelings. Now this does not mean to be arrogant, difficulties can always arise. Just gonna stay vigilant. I do say, I have a feeling that this streak is the one that will go on forever....

Short term plan: Today, take it easy. I am lil sick and I'll be a little light on myself. Luckily at this point, my relaxation is healthy consisting of reading (will use vigilance to keep it that way.

Long term plan: Stay on this forum moving forward, I can do less of it, perhaps weekly when I have like years pmo free. But permanent vigilance is likely necessary since these brain patterns don't go away. I don't want anymore long as streaks and going back to it, I want to be done with this shit and going on this forum to stay on track and remember to be vigilant is a very small price to pay. If anything, it's extra support and rewarding to aim to support others with the same problem.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on April 11, 2019, 12:45:55 PM
Sorry to hear that you're sick, get well soon! Sounds like a good plan short term and long term...we will always have a tendency (at varying degrees) to fall back into old habits that could lead to PMO, but even with minor slip-ups vigilance will help us stay the course. I kind of think of it as carving out a path, wandering off a little bit but getting back on the path so that you pickup where you left off. Perfection is impossible, but constant progression is always something we can look for.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 11, 2019, 05:10:23 PM
Thanks bro! Luckily in terms of the sickness I feel a good bit better.

Just thought I'd stop in for a minute. Putting in more efforts to meet women. Feeling a little afraid etc. oh, well. Just gotta stay calm and keep it up AND not get desperate. Just plug away at aiming to meet more women bit by bit a little bit at a time. While enjoying the rest of my life.

I have a little free time at the moment and I am not certain what to do, I set a few goals so may as well work on them a bit. I notice I have a lot of fear of failure. "What if I go to this social event and it goes bad then lots of people think I am weird"
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: mym8marty on April 11, 2019, 07:10:34 PM
Hey Quit! Read through your journal and only noticed it was yours when you mentioned my name... LOL

Quote
I have a little free time at the moment and I am not certain what to do, I set a few goals so may as well work on them a bit. I notice I have a lot of fear of failure. "What if I go to this social event and it goes bad then lots of people think I am weird"

This is a huge issue that I struggle with as well, not in these specific terms but I am constantly experiencing social anxiety. For me, it is especially prevalent because it's only my second semester in school (in another state) so I don't have any solid friend groups. The constant thought for me is that this person wouldn't want me at their event/party, nobody wants me to butt in on their friend group/hangout, that person doesn't want me to  sit with them at lunch, etc.

The biggest things I have done to overcome this are
1. Defining my feelings: telling myself "This is what social anxiety is. That's what's making you think this way. These people really don't give a damn about you coming and hanging out with them, and on top of that might even enjoy your company."
2. Stopping myself from apologizing for nothing: I did this a lot, I would say "Sorry for double texting", or "Sorry to intrude", "Sorry for talking so much", etc. Nobody but me was looking at the situation in the same way I was (that I was being rude just by talking/being around them) so apologizing is pointless. On top of that, apologizing only reinforces my own irrational guilt, validating my anxieties.

At a party especially, this sounds harsh but no one cares enough about any individual person there! No one is paying more attention to you than you are. Honestly the feeling that you may not be wanted can only be rational in a situation like, does this person want to be trapped on an island with me for the rest of their lives. A party is one night, nobody is bothered by you being there any more than you are by anyone else being there.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on April 11, 2019, 07:36:14 PM
I remember in my very earliest days of trying to quit this addiction that I used to think PMO was my only problem, that if I could fix that I would have fixed everything.

Once I started to quit using PMO to anesthetize myself to the problems of life, I started to see all my other problems more clearly. It was a weird realization that I had a lot more to work on than just my addiction. But I guess that's what happened when I wasn't blocking everything else out with PMO.

I'm not sure why I'm sharing that other than to say you're on the right track. If your path to recovery is anything like mine, you'll be confronting the problems and difficulties head on that you've been using PMO to block out. Don't let your new awareness of those issues trick you into thinking you're better off with your old way of living. You're headed to a much better you, even if it means walking through the tougher days.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 11, 2019, 11:35:20 PM
Thanks guys!

Great points Marty. I know what you mean with the apologizing, and the not thinking people want you around, it's great to be aware of it. Also, the "harsh" thought of people not caring is actually liberating! I think feeling like everyone cares what we do etc. (I have been there plenty) makes things too extreme and makes me sensitive. Also lol at not knowing the journal was mine till I said your name, I've done similar

Blue: Totally true. Yeah, lots of problems to overcome. I am trying to enjoy the process, find healthier ways to handle emotions and problems. I read a nice quote today: Happiness and pleasure are not the same thing! There is a lot of meaning and happiness to be found in a life with occasional problems and bad feelings, thats just part of life.


Update: Today was a little rougher emotionally then I let on, but finally I feel better. I pushed myself to socialize a lot. I didn't really make friends or meet many girls BUT I pushed through a lot of anxiety and eventually finally it is gone.

Some danger though: I was thinking to myself "Man I really want to meet girls, maybe I should eventually use tinder just a little" That thought leads to a huge craving and to flashes of PMO nonsense in my head. Tinder was the ultimate killer of some of my best streaks and rarely had good dates on it anyway. It harmed my focus, and was a huge pmo trigger. I had commited to never using it. So perhaps I need to recognize these thoughts as urge/ pmo type thoughts. Is it possible I could meet a girl on tinder? Yes. Is it worth it? Really no, I can put the time into being social and eventually meet women in the real world, even if it takes longer. The inevitable eventually compulsive tinder use leading to a slip is soooo not worth it. Wouldn't matter how many matches I got if I was in addiction land. (Glad to be thinking rationally again, life is about tradeoffs, I am willing to trade tinder and the small possibility of getting dates off of it, for keeping my brain totally clean and being the pmo free well adjusted person I want to be)


Just thought of what I wrote. Expanding on that. A big part of recovering from pmo is getting over the instant gratification nonsense. Real doesn't work like let me search for what I want now! Sometimes women are not available, sometimes it takes time to find a date. My desire to use tinder is linked to my instant gratification I want results/ dates faster! Mindset. So it's related to the pmo, then the mechanics of it are awful of course as well. It's super designed to be addictive.

Message to self: Patience Patience Patience. Keep plugging away, work at life, work on self, be more social, talk to girls when opportunities arise. Be patience, it takes time eventually I'll have women I am dating. Patience. Consistency. This goes for everything.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 12, 2019, 04:55:41 PM
Short time just wanted to make a quick update.

Today I woke up feeling good (a good sign!, normally takes a while to get going).

Something very cool is I had an awesome dream. Some annoying things happened but I was very calm and handled them well a girl like me but in a very very non pmo way. Like a girl liked me and I wanted to know more about her and I even dreamed about doing some other things I have been learning. All seem like good signs.

So far the day has been mostly easy peasy. It's nice to have a day like this, to see what is possible. I got things done, did all the stuff I had to do because I WANTED to which was pretty amazing. I wanted to study wanted to work out, wanted to meditate etc.

Had a few pmo thoughts pop in my head, just popped in but I pushed them out, but always good to be aware of them. Sometimes specific girls remind me of something or someone from porn and are triggers. So, I'll just be aware of it.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 13, 2019, 12:38:33 AM
Some more good news. (in an oddish way).

I had some of my old bad feelings popping up, get real frustrated and angry. Went out and socialized and at the end of the night was mad and felt it didn't go well. But here is where the big progress is.... I was walking into my apartment thinking how I was going to post about it and..... it just disappeared. I just felt fine, nuetral. Like "meh, I'll go out tomorrow, next time'll be better" "I'll be dating eventually".

That is just HUGE progress honestly. Like to just not keep ruminating, to feel on emotion and is passes quick and to feel ready for tomorrow ALREADY. Anyway, so a good day all in all.  I started working harder again, socializing a lot more and doing that I think is weakening my emotions.... If you are talking to people all the time, you body can only maintain anxiousness so long eventually it goes away. I think taking the emotional edge off will make it easier to socialize more and become better socially.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: mym8marty on April 13, 2019, 12:52:29 AM
That’s awesome news! I think you make a great point about how talking to people more makes things easier, I couldn’t agree more. With just one interaction it’s easy to dwell, but if it’s one bad interaction alongside plenty of good ones you get much more comfortable continuing to seek them out.

I think your meditation is probably helping you out with the emotion regulation. Sometimes the easiest thing is to just stop feeling angry, and let it be. Like you said, next time it’ll be better.

Congrats on your progress!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on April 13, 2019, 01:16:16 PM
I'm glad your making progress @quit, I feel the same way as a positive attitude and self-supporting outlook will help you with most things you set out to do, even if you don't get the "results" you were hoping for.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 13, 2019, 06:11:34 PM
Thanks guys! The support really helps. Today I am feeling a little less good, but reading the comments really boosted me!

I was fantasizing about the girl I went on a date with a bit this morning. It didn't escalate but that is best to avoid as it seems to throw my emotions off a bit.

I am a bit upset about an issue with a friend, he's simply been kind of mean to me lately. We lived far away for years, but his life and personality has changed a bit. I still like him, but he's a little more irratble then in the past, the last few weeks he's been pretty irritable.

I keep contacting him, thats a bad habit I have, contacting people or chasing people when they push my away. I think, I'll just take a rational middle approach, give him a week or two, not contacting him, let things cool off and stop being the one chasing the friendship.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on April 13, 2019, 07:25:19 PM
Glad to hear you're chugging along. It sounds like you're doing a great job of separating yourself from the thoughts and emotions of triggers, and it really seems to be working for you! That's awesome!

Stay aware, stay committed, and keep it going!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 14, 2019, 11:46:26 AM
So, I think when rewiring I shouldn't trust my thoughts too much. Friend called me and everything was fine, I think I may have created some or much of the issue in my head.

Today going to change things up. I simply need to step back a bit and organize and clean. I keep feeling like I need to get things done and it's obsessive. I am rushing around. Today I am gonna slow things down maybe even skip a thing or two and take the time to organize and recharge.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on April 15, 2019, 01:06:12 PM
I'm totally with you on not trusting thoughts, I've been thinking alot about the idea of having a positive relationship with the thoughts in my head like you are a separate entity. Sometimes it's important to reign in thoughts and be like "whoa, that's completely irrational" but sometimes it's okay to agree with thoughts and support the ideS that come. It's a process of finding out which ones to connect with and which ones to let go of, but it's definitely something we can improve upon through practice and experience!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on April 15, 2019, 06:41:10 PM
I simply need to step back a bit and organize and clean. I keep feeling like I need to get things done and it's obsessive. I am rushing around. Today I am gonna slow things down maybe even skip a thing or two and take the time to organize and recharge.

This is such a good idea. I don't know if I've ever had a problem with relapses when my place was organized. Most likely, it just means that messiness in my house and sloppiness in my habits go together with being busy and stressed out. Taking some time to put your surroundings in order is a big thing that I know I overlook a lot of the time.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 15, 2019, 08:07:40 PM
Great points guys!

Yeah Picahel,  I forget sometimes that my mind is wrong all the time, the key is picking out the good with the bad. Minds are by nature not totally rational and effected by past irrelevant things and moods.

Blue: Yeah, I have heard a few times. The external is a reflection of the internal! I organized a bit, it was a help for sure. Still more to do.


Update: So last two days I was fantasizing about girl I went on date with and ex girlfriend. Gonna cut that shit out, it definitely seems to harm focus and increase urges.

I have been super tired. Took it easy today, felt bad for most of it but FINALLY feeling better. I really just needed rest. I have been treating hobbies like jobs, that is the wrong way to go. One of my hobbies I did just to keep busy, I didn't enjoy it much but like decided I had to become great at it. I think fuck it, I am gonna drop the hobby. Maybe do it here and there. I felt a million times better when I made that decision, as I was dreading going and had to go tonight lol.

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on April 16, 2019, 10:59:25 PM
I'm glad you were able to let go of something that wasn't making you happy! Alot of what I've learned in meditation is not to "build up" this image of ourselves as strong and determined people, but instead letting go of distractions so we can tap into our innate qualities of peace and focus.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 18, 2019, 10:16:06 AM
Damn bro that is a great insight! It hits the nail on the head accurately. I have been thinking I have to work so hard and everything is a result of my hard work instead of accepting that hey, maybe I have natural ability sometimes or maybe things can happen without trying so hard.

A good bit happened the last few days. 1) The bad I fantasized about the fetish. 2) The good, I met an amazing girl we had this great connection and we hooked up.   :)3) The bad, something must of gone wrong and now she basically told me we wouldn't see each other again and now is ignoring me and I am a bit heart broken  >:( lol. Such is life I guess....


1) The bad- I fantasized about fetish stuff, two nights ago and yesterday morning. For me that is a clock reset.
ANY fantasizing about sex in my bed is bad, I have now found if I fantasize about sex in bed, imagine a girl is there etc. eventually I end up fantasizing about the fetish stuff... (Which I consider a lapse). Again the positive is still no porn or masturbation so I am progressing. But now moving forward I am 100% no more of that shit at all. No fantasy addiction. Be massively careful about fantasizing about girls in bed really, just cut it out.

My fantasy REALLY affects my erection quality and recovery. I want my damn dick to work and all that good stuff. The way to do it is be totally clean, not to prove anything not to have a perfect reboot but because that is what gets the results I want, being recovered having a working dick and getting the

2) I have been letting go of a lot. I had all these hobbies I was treating like jobs. I thought I had to do so much, I was actually neglecting my career, had no space for dating and was getting messy. I have been giving myself much less daily requirements. On Tuesday I did not work until evening and I realized "hey, I actually don't HAVE to do anything" so I rested (still had a cold) wrote a bit, just sat around thinking. I felt tight and was like "I wish I could go to yoga class" then I was like "HEY! I can just go do yoga myself in the park.

I go to the park do a bit of yoga, it felt good. Walking back I notice behind me this very attractive girl. (Previously I had been putting so much effort into learning to be good with women, I read an article that said basically guys think it's hard to meet girls and overcomplicate it and then it becomes hard). Anyway, this girl was very attractive, looked un attainable. I thought whatever I'll give it a go. I just said some random thing about a bird that flew by. She stopped and we talked. She was going to go for a walk. I said let's walk together.

We did, then we decided to go for a swim, it was great. We had a ton in common I was pretty amazed by her and was thinking like "omg this is the girl I've been looking for".

We spent a few hours together it felt like a whole day. I lent her a book, we decided to see each other at night after work.

We saw each other, we walked talked connected. I took her to DIFFERENT rocks this time (at the beach) and the tide was lower. So we kissed and held each other (no tidal wave!) and we kept telling each other how much we liked each other and how amazing this was and I was telling her how beautiful she was..... Unfourtunately honestly I did not feel as aroused or present as I'd like....

Brought her home. We were in bed kissing, I was kissing her all over. Now FUCK PORN and FANTASY. The fantasy affects my erection almost as much as porn.... for real. That stuff is the devil.  My erection quality was pretty shitty. Coming and going.

Then turns out she is a virgin..... We tried several times and talked about it a lot (mistake). She would get nervous each time we tried and eventually I felt a bit of a "shift" like the connection wasn't the same.

In the morning..... she was really sweet but then I went to take off her shorts and she said she should go. As she left she said "if I don't see you, good luck with everything" and gave me a peck. (Basically telling me I'd never see her again). I could tell right away she  never wanted to see me again. Now she's ignored me and has my awesome book lol.

Oh well, I feel better having written about it. I felt like this girl was soo amazing but writing about it, it seems so much less significant and man... it was only one day we spent together! If it could flip that fast it couldn't be THAT special. She was on vacation here anyway. I think I was a bit needy and felt like if we had sex for her first time we'd have this great connection and all that good stuff.

So I spoke to some friends who are great with women and here's what I gathered.

1) I made things a big deal. - Talking about her being a virgin over and over. Regardless of what she says. Makes her uncomfortable.
2) When a girl is a virgin, you basically ask "want to have sex?" she normally says no or " not this time" and you just go to sleep. She'll wake you if she wants to do anything. Basically I should have just slowed down more, been more laid back and finally...
3) This may be super important! My erections kind of sucked and came and went, even when not having sex.... This may have been a huge deal (as we all know.....) I did not mention this point to my friends..... So the lesson there is NO FANTASY. I am gonna aim to choose to make this a positive and use it as motivation to totally cut out all fantasy and imagining girls etc. when I do that I get morning wood all the time. When I've done that and been with a girl after about two weeks, my dick has worked. I realize for me, accuracy beats duration..... totally cutting out everything porn sex fantasy etc. has my dick working. A slight drip, like a little fantasy etc. even if done for months and my dick doesn't work too well. Even when I had a girlfriend and was rewired when I fantasized about fetishes my erections were pretty bad the next few days. Oh well... maybe this event is the motivation I needed.

POSSIBLE TRIGGER BELOW (I mention an act we did, not in detail).

She did give me a blowjob, it took forever to cum and I didn't feel too too much. But, I can view that as a win. This girl was really attractive by any guys standards... thats pretty cool this happened. AND my mind kept trying to jump to weird fetish thoughts and wanted me to ask her to engage in crazy fetish crap but I pushed all the thoughts out and was just present. In  my experience I need to be with a girl/ have sex a few times and before the thoughts go away. Okay, I am ALL IN on this reboot. I want this dick working, I want to enjoy this times with these girls. I want to have this thing DONE and handled.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 19, 2019, 06:16:42 PM
Day 2:

Well a decent indicator. Yesterday I was at the beach and was talking to a woman in the water, it was super wavy. A big wave hit us and popped out her breast. We both laughed about it. But... I got a full on erection immediately that lasted for several minutes. It didn't feel like compulsive porney or trigger. like it was very much attraction to the real woman. So perhaps, the liason with the other girl helped my rewiring/ woke me up to real women more.....

I went out with my friend last night, had a great time and got some work done after. Went to sleep late and still woke up early before my alarm.... Very tired today, but been just accepting it. I had a good time! People do that all the time have fun etc. and just are tired the next day. So cool how I am handling it, having a fairly good day. Would like to get a girl/girls back in my life though!

But, LIFE comes first. Gotta bring that back on track, working to get the women in there but having a great hell of a time either way.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on April 20, 2019, 11:41:58 AM
Glad you were able to have a positive experience with a couple women, that is definitely progress! I'm definitely jealous of your ability to approach and talk to any woman haha, and I totally feel you on wanting a consistent woman in my life.

In the past I have often initiated sex when it wasn't the vibe. Part of it for me is my insecurity in not being interesting or fun enough to consistently "deserve" to be around her...so I use sex as a way to make it worth her time to be around me. I'm not saying this has anything to do with you, just maybe think about why you are doing/thinking certain things, in other words question your thoughts and actions when you are unsure or unhappy with them.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on April 20, 2019, 07:52:52 PM
Glad you're still on your way.

I'm not saying this has anything to do with you, just maybe think about why you are doing/thinking certain things, in other words question your thoughts and actions when you are unsure or unhappy with them.

Whether it applies to you or not, I think this is definitely something worth thinking about. I know I think a lot about how I want to be in a relationship...but is that because I'm really ready for one or because I want to prove to myself that I'm ready for one? I'd hate to force a relationship or uncomfortable situation on some poor girl just because I'm trying to prove something to myself. Anyway, that's just what popped in my head just now. If it's helpful, use it. If not, thanks for letting me take up space in your journal to think it through for myself.  ;D
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 20, 2019, 11:40:06 PM
Picah: Man, I think you are right! Oddly, I had the thought "if we don't have sex, I will never see her again". It became a reverse self-fulfilling prophecy.... I thought that, and it really effected the vibe and how I acted. Still a journey.... gotta learn to accept girls liking me.

Bluehero: Haha, it's always good to have food for thought..... Both of your thoughts really make sense about the situation. I felt 1) I had to have sex with her to see her again, for her to be connected with me. and 2) I did not have a strong physical desire for sex.... it's was just like a " I should have sex" thing. My body wasn't ready at that time.....

Wow, thanks for the thoughts guys, these two thoughts hit the nail on the head 1000% accurately so I am really learning from it.....

Both new ideas can work together:

Realize I don't need to use the sex to enjoy the company of women.
Not NEED to have sex, be more patient, let my body rewire.

Still sad about this girl, oh well......

Gotta just use it to gain the learning's, so I'll be ready for the next time. My mind is like "this girl is really special and we had a special connection, I will always miss her and never meet any girl anything like her". But.... It may be hard to remember now, but I am sure I have felt that before. I feel sure I am right this time, BUT I do remember being more upset over girls in the past....

It will be nice, to FINALLY just get it done and have good connections with girls. BUT, can't make life all about that and it probably won't happen right now. Going to read a nice novel and have an easy morning as well
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 21, 2019, 08:37:00 AM
Fuck guys, I need to get it together. I fantasized about my fetish last night and this morning, not as bad at last time but still..... seems like some momentum lost..... Plus now my dick looks like I was in a cold pool, all turtled and dead for real. Crazy how the body physically responds to this stuff.

Okay, back to basics I think. I've been a little arrogant I guess..... my urges have actually been much weaker BUT I have been staying in bed when I have urges, I can get away with it for a night (not good to do but I guess it shows I am healing more....) but I have fantasized about the fetishes twice this week, super bad....

Anyway, taking a step back. I will set a goal, rebuild the momentum. My goal: Get through the rest of the month without any fantasy about the fetishes.

Action steps: Review the smart book (which I have not done in sometime)
Be more vigilant about handling cravings. (It's nice I can usually brush them off, but it's time to get back on the grind a bit, actively beat down this addiction)
Have a stronger night plan. Off computer (it's been for useful stuff mostly) by 12:00 (including work!) and READ; NOT IN BED until tired.
Do more cardio exercise again.

I was sick for awhile and I believe that contributed to me performing less well. Especially not doing cardiovascular exercise, thats like the core for me.


Simple, going back to what works.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 21, 2019, 09:09:34 PM
It's good to be back on the grind! Doing things the right way. Had a little very weak urge/ sexual thought. So I got up and distracted myself. I got a few girls numbers today. So just gonna be careful about not checking phone too much. Some of the girls being flakey. You know what, I am seeing a friend tonight, who cares? If girls show up they show up... if they don't, they don't.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: mym8marty on April 22, 2019, 03:51:55 AM
I think a good way to approach the no-fantasy goal would be to define to yourself what counts as breaking that rule. Does the thought of the fantasy popping into your head out of nowhere count? I would say no, probably no, because that’s not your fault. But purposefully indulging and exploring that thought would be crossing the line. This way, you can almost be proud of yourself for dodging the thoughts when they come to mind, like if the thought comes into your mind you can consciously dismiss it and do something to distract yourself. Otherwise, you could  be unjustly punishing yourself for something out of your control.

If this is already how you were thinking about this, I just think it’s super helpful to mentally frame things like this. Glad to hear about your last update though! Sounds like you’re doing really well socially and for yourself.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on April 22, 2019, 09:58:40 AM
I 100% agree with Marty, I think progress comes from gently guiding your thoughts away from the urges when they pop up. I think it helps to have a variety of ways to do this, both physical (exercise, dancing, hobbies, etc.) and mental (focusing on the breath, fully tuning into your 5 senses, finding self-motivating and positive thoughts). The more ways you can do that, and the more consistently you are able to do it, the easier this reboot will be :)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 22, 2019, 08:09:23 PM
Great points guys! Marty, that is a super great point. I do look at it the way you described but the reminder is very useful.... I am going to make the line a little but harder. Popping up is fine, but no indulgence at all. No gray area. It pops into head, no problem get away, but don't indulge consciously at all.

Picah, thanks makes sense! I am transitioning a bit now, so that is a good reminder. Some things I am changing, but at the same time, certain things work that I want to remember more.... Swimming when I had an urge was HUGE. My pool was being repaired for a little while, so I lost the habit. Now I can go back to that. You know, I couldn't place my finger on it but really, in some ways I feel like I did when my journal just started (thought not quite as bad). Like I am transitioning, figuring out how to replace my habits. It's a little deja vu ish.


Update: So, I had what would sound like a pretty crazy day. I was upset. But, man I think I FINALLY did just what I needed (last few weeks have been odd). I had a legitimately hard workout, lifting heavy weights, anaerobic exercise. Just channeling all my anger (I got screwed out of some money and lost a job today lol luckily I am starting another job so it's really no biggie, but the emotions were still there) into the weights and hitting a heavy bag. Man I feel so so much better.

i had backslined a little, was checking my phone a lot, seems none of the girls are responsive I was feeling down about it.... But lesson learned you really gotta feel good first girl or no girl. At the most basic level I felt tired but I had this anxious/angry energy lately I didn't even notice it. I felt so tired but did triple my normal workout, so clearly I had the energy, at least emotionally.

What a nice release I feel, it's so powerful that it is odd. Definetly a great replacement for PMO. Just super duper intense exercise.

I should note (if I haven't already) I was training to be a professional athlete when I was younger, exercising hours and hours a day. I had a pmo problem but it got REALLY bad after I got hurt.... So I think my body is used to/ needs the tons of intense exercise. The key is finding ways to exert myself without hurting self or re injuring self.

I have a lot to do next few days. I do need to make the new job work and there is a little pressure, so gotta just dedicate tomorrow to preparing my ass off.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 22, 2019, 08:55:27 PM
My thoughts are quite very negative at the moment. Sigh.... a real bummer. I am thinking like what can I do to change it? etc. You know, I think I just need to chill a bit and let things happen of their own accord. Maybe I just need some extra sleep tonight and thats it.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 22, 2019, 10:18:56 PM
So I need my voice for a presentation TEST for my new job. It's a public speaking related job I want bad. And it's all about this test. My throat had been sore, I need to practice and I have now lost my voice. I feel like the universe is conspiring against me and I should give up on life right now lol.

I think I also may have burned another bridge with a girl. I want this job pretty bad and am now unemployed. I am kind of shocked at how bad things are going. Like, I was really down. But then I started busting my ass to prep for this job. Like " I am gonna prep for this so hard and make it happen!" Then my voice went, like I was pushing through pain, now my voice just went....

It's wild like in a day everything went wrong. Every girl is gone. I still miss the one from last week. I have no income source, may have issues making rent (in this new dream city I've been in).

Well, the good part is I wrote about it, so I guess I'll have to figure something out and make things work. Honestly I'd just feel plain bad to have this whole journal and end by like turning into a smelly homless guy masturabting to porn in the library or something lol Probably wouldn't be very inspiring to those who read it.

Reboot fuck yeah!!!! Nice I met the woman who I think I'll love.... oh shit she doesn't want to talk to me.... I am rebounding! Oh shit nevermind. I moved to my dream city.... oh wait my bad I am unemployed and so sad I went back to porn and spent my last money on a prostitute and now I am homless...... the end   so yeah gonna avoid that.... guess I will just read the damn presentation mentally as much as I can and hopefully find some strong ass antiobiotics or any kind of fucking drug to just make that presentation happen. Clutch time. Gotta get it done
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on April 23, 2019, 09:18:52 PM
You're thinking in the right direction. Stick with the grind and stay committed!

Sorry to hear things are sort of hitting the fan. If it helps at all, I feel like these have been some of the worst couple months I can remember having. Weird how things start getting worse when I start living better. But I know I'm on the right track, so I won't give up.

We'll get through this garbage together, all of it! Sending good vibes your way, man!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: mym8marty on April 24, 2019, 12:34:04 AM
You might be able to reach out to the people offering the job and ask to move the interview to a week later or so given the condition of your voice. This isn’t always possible obviously and it would be better to do the interview with the shitty voice than to not do it at all, but if they are willing to work with you you would have your voice back and have had some additional time to practice.

Also you might want to consider not reaching out to girls when you’re in a bad mood. Not only can it affect your chances of it going well (your bad mood will pretty easily show through your words) but if you are turning to it in times of negative thinking then it could be a sign you’re replacing porn with texting girls? Not saying this for sure but it’s something to consider. Overall just try to save it for when you’re in a more positive headspace.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on April 24, 2019, 12:43:58 PM
I've definitely had really low points in my life, to the point where I visualized myself being a complete loser...no school, no job, no friends, no interest in anything, overweight. It was really tough to change that mindset but got positive momentum by just doing things that I knew could have a positive impact in my life, even if I didn't have ANY desire to do them whatsoever...eventually I started to realize that no matter how bad things are, and how bad you feel, you can always make a positive impact on your situation in some way or another. Even if it's just sitting and meditating, or taking a nap if you're stressed lol.

Going through this reboot takes serious strength and willpower...If you can get through this you can find a way to let all the past girls go and do what you can to nail the interview, or reschedule it and nail it later. Like you said, it's clutch time!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 24, 2019, 10:49:43 PM
Thanks for all the support guys! I prepped like crazy and drugged myself up on over the counter stuff and felt ready to crush the presentation and.... it got moved to monday (with no prompting on my part lol). I don't have the job yet but things are looking really good. Nearly everyone at the company has told me they like me and are hoping I get hired ( you have to perform on the presentation or they won't take you even if they don't like you). But I am training for the presentation like it's fucking Rocky 3 lol. I found out a bunch of other people are presenting for the job too, I felt awful. But funny I feel really happy right now. I just was like you know? Why get upset? I'll just do whatever it takes to get the job.... then it doesn't matter and there is no reason to be upset or stressed.

Like I can be stressed and upset that I am sick, stressed and upset that there are others competing for it. But if I just already decided that I am going to outwork everyone and do whatever is necessary to get the job, then I have nothing to be upset about and that is what I am doing.

So feeling good.

Bluehero: Thanks for the good vibes man, it's good to hear someone else is going through shit and going strong! Sometimes stuff can flip so fast! If I get this job, I'll be earning more then I ever have in my life before without working too many hours. Same can happen in a lot of areas, there may be some turning point with pmo where suddenly our moods are like 10% better and we are 20% calmer, little percentage but they could add up to wayyyy better performance in life.

Marty: Thanks for pointing that out..... about the texting. I think you are right. My issue with reboot has been replacement behaviors. I really appreciate having stuff like this pointed out, I think you are accurate. Compulsively checking texts, using it as some bs slot machine. Gotta do it when I am chill and with CONTROL. I am going to aim to write about my texting or other habits in the journal more so you guys can let me know if you see bad patterns, so it can be shut down before it gets out of hand. As I write I want to check my phone for NO reason. So gonna not look at it tonight at all.

Picah: For sure! Yeah I had all this shit going on. I have just been busting my ass working really hard and honestly I feel damn good. It's weird I just kind of lost myself in hard work today, doing everything I could to improve my life and I feel damn good right now. I finished with a workout even though I felt exhausted but I still had a good workout and now feel great.

A big shift for me: I had this OCD like obsession with improvement and "daily tasks". Like I gotta meditate every day, write in a journal everyday, visualize everyday. Now this stuff all may be good. But at what point am I ready to get RESULTS. I always built these days that had hours of self-improvement in them. It feels good to just be like screw it and go all in to get an actual result in the real world. Hope that makes sense... Just accepting like okay I am ready to get results in my life. Not in a negative entitled way. Just basically spending the day working to succeed rather then working to change/ improve.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on April 25, 2019, 07:52:28 PM
No, I think I get you: I sometimes do things that keep me busy so I feel like I'm getting results without really getting there. Maybe that's not what you mean, but either way, go for those results!

Now I'm thinking about replacement behaviors, too. I've been doing pretty good at staying away from PMO lately, but have I just been replacing it with something else? Thinking about now, I don't really think so, but it's something I'm going to try to be more aware of and probably write about too.

Keep it going, and good luck on your presentation!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 25, 2019, 08:52:49 PM
Yeah, I meant like idk challenging myself for challenges sake.

Like I'd make my goals "study every day for 30 min"
"Meditate twice day"
etc.
Before I knew it, I'd have like 20 things I HAD to do during the day, and would not be performing well at work.

What about just setting a goal?

"Make X more dollars this week"
Master this aspect of X hobby
etc.

Being willing to go for it, being okay with failing. And being FLEXIBLE in how I get there. I am moving towards this and it's working pretty well lately. I have had a lot of challenges, but I am just doing what it takes to get through em, not making it harder for myself not commiting to things other then getting results.

Daily update:
Skipped breakfast (never do that!) I didn't get to eat until mid afternoon and it had me tired all day, really wore me out even still. OH well lesson learned, make breakfast a priority.

Day went pretty well. Job stuff going well. There are other areas I want to work on BUT. The job stuff is number one for now. Going all in, I have an opportunity to improve my life a good bit. So going all in on that. Once I have the job, I'll have more time to balance out. So, I would like to say socialize tonight, but if I don't do much. Don't meet girls etc. so sweat. Job comes first!!!

Also: Gotta stay on track. Enjoy myself girl or no girl.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on April 26, 2019, 07:25:56 PM
Okay, I see what you mean. Yeah, that makes sense, and I think you're wise to notice what's happening. It's the next step: instead of just focusing on improving and challenging yourself, you're thinking about priorities. You can't do it all, so you're doing first things first.

That's awesome and definitely something I want to think more about. I have some free time coming up now that classes are over, so I want to make sure that I'm using that time well with some specific goals.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 26, 2019, 07:57:20 PM
Sounds good! Another thought I was having.... any fun activities you like? There are so many fun activities. A hike? indoor rock climbing? Jet skiing? Amusement park? Museum? I am thinking of doing this too, it can be a nice way to boost the mood when times are rough. Plus feeling better makes things easier anyway! I am aiming to find a fun activity to do soon.

Update: What an eventful, difficult but ultimately rewarding evening.

So, I had planned on going out a bit, I skipped it to rest and was in bed unable to sleep. WRONG! I do need rest but, skipping stuff is often not good, staying in too long is not good. I was fantasizing about my fetish fantasizing about relapse and HOLY SHIT, I came as close as I ever have. I pulled out my phone with the intention of looking at some porn, even planning to contact prostitutes. I was like shaking with anticipation. Then at the last second, I pulled up this forum instead....

I have been so focused on cutting out fantasy that I have neglected to even count how long I have been porn and masturbation free. So I looked up the forum just to see when my first post was. It has been 47!!!! Days!!!! I was like, do I really want to give that up, do you imagine the devastation I would feel to give that up?

I STILL once again nearly pulled up tinder to look up girls (guaranteed to lead to relapse). I downloaded the app but then thought again. I will be DEVASTATED tomorrow. I deleted the app without opening it.

So, I barely slept. BUT I woke up feeling HAPPY for the first time in a looonnnggg time ( it hasn't been all bad but I have been feeling like shit when I first wake up for awhile). And so grateful, the second I woke up I was fully aware of the horrible devastation I would have felt if I had relapsed.



Had a really good day today.

Lessons of yesterday:

Something very upsetting had happened with a friend. (The same one I am always upset about lol). And that was a big part of the trigger. I need to give that dude some space. Some of it's my fault. Simply I view him as more of a friend then he views me. I am tired of it. He's my friend (have a balanced view) but really I gotta stop doing so much for him and also expand outward and make more friends and build up my life separately. Thank god I got through it though phew....

So: Pull back on that friend. Let me be blunt: I have been needy. I gotta expand my social life. Not be so reliant on this friend. Not be unconditionally available for people who are not the same with me. Give us each some space on my terms for once.

Also: DO NOT skip going out and stay in for too long. It straight up doesn't work..... My last lapse period before this journal, I had a few lapses that way. Just staying home then urges would come. It's okay to go out a little bit, and go home if still tired. I forget, I often regret staying home and rarely regret going out. If I have been barely home for a few days. Stay home it's great. But I was inside every evening for days. I SKIPPED a plan (always a BIG trigger) and it nearly cost me a 47 day streak. Plus I may have had a great time, made friends, met a date. Who knows? That was a mistake and a step in the wrong direction. Its okay, learn from it. Socialize more. (separate from other friend).


Finally: MEDITATE. I have not been meditating. I was like "oh I am doing too much each day". Meditating is one thing to include. Not throw the baby out with the bathwater. I simply have an increased control over myself when I meditate. My mind slows down ever so slightly, but it's so so important. Meditation is a very important tool to staying sober. So for the time being back on the meditation wagon.

So the non meditation was really bad, meditating is really important. Very grateful I came so close to lapsing and learned my lesson without actually lapsing.... Wow, I am honestly impressed with myself, never gotten to a point like that and gotten through it before...

I think BlueHero and Picah you both meditate? I would be happy to hear about your practices and any tips you have, so maybe I could experiment with making my meditation better/ more pleasurable etc.





Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 28, 2019, 12:38:34 AM
Feeling pretty good right now.

I was very tired today, I think I am/ was in a bit of a flatline....

So I was very tired, I slept for an hour and woke up so tired I was woozy. I still went out for a bit. I felt pretty listless, a mix of nervous and um... un social. I felt disinterested in most women I saw... Some I was quite attracted to but not as much as usual. I am meditating again and man is it helpful, just taking the edge of my emotions a little bit.

Anyway, so I was out and just out of it. But by the time I got home I have some energy and want to socialize. I am already home and first though "shoot, wish I had this energy before" but a better way of looking at it is... in terms of like investment. I felt really out of it, went out anyway and was able to put myself in a better mood and re energize.... hopefully I can use that energy tomorrow.

ALSO- One of the girls, who is no longer in my city, sent me a really sweet text saying she liked me etc. but was nervous to meet because she didn't want to have feelings for me and leave. That was very sweet and a confidence boost. It's odd... the last week or so, the idea of having any sort of relationships even a date with women has felt a million miles away...... it's not logical. But this text made it seem a bit closer. Work is priority 1 and has moved me away from dating much, but I want to get back into dating again perhaps next week.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 28, 2019, 09:08:50 AM
Day 2 (fantasy free) 48 or 9 (PMO free)

Woke up feeling a bit better. Went out a bit last night and learned from it.... Going to work on some fun stuff today. This forum seems kind of slow lately...
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on April 28, 2019, 07:52:06 PM
Wow, sounds like a lot has been happening. Huge congratulations are in order for pulling back from a potential relapse. You're right, that would be devastating to lose that streak. I know my growing streak is definitely a motivating factor for me. Just keep checking yourself and making adjustments.

You asked about meditation. I've been doing meditation most days for a couple years by now, I think. Maybe 3. It's an ongoing process, and I sometimes think I'm not doing a very good job. But that's not the point, right? For me, the value is in the habit. Sometimes I feel like I get really deep into it and finish my meditation feeling refreshed, and other times I feel like I just sat still for 20 minutes. But I still think that's helpful. More concretely, I've been using an app lately called Insight Timer (Android and Apple) that has a lot of guided meditations, music, talks, etc. It even has some great things about addiction in general and even on porn addiction. A lot of the app's content is free. I only recently got a subscription to some of the other features (I never pay for apps) because I felt like I was getting enough out of it to make it worth it. So I'd recommend it if you're into that sort of thing.

Sorry if I've contributed to the slowness of the forum. The last few weeks have been intense, but I hope to be back more regularly (daily) moving forward now that things are settling down again. Onward we go!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on April 29, 2019, 09:30:07 PM
Thanks for the tips! Thats a good point, I would feel like my meditation wasn't doing anything then stop. For my the meditation really is super helpful. Especially for awareness.

Pretty decent day today. I had a minor stress earlier but it was "normal" like I didn't get super upset, so that is BIG progress. To just idk experience regular un extreme emotions.

I had a pretty fun day, was tired but pushed through and had a great workout. My big win, was. I was home and about to skip a workout class I really wanted to go to, because I felt I didn't have the time. I felt a little down like, I'd done too much. Disappointed lonely and triggered. Then was like fuck it! I want to go! So I rushed out, rushed there and had a great time! So glad I did that. I seem to pretty much never regret doing something I want to do lol.... Very glad I listened to my body ( in the right way) . My body felt lonely and felt urges, so even though I'd been out all day, I went right back out and had a great time. 
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on April 30, 2019, 07:42:35 PM
That's great! Recognizing a trigger or an urge and then deliberately doing something to deal with it is maybe a simple thing, but it's huge. For a long time it seemed like my thing was trying not to have urges because I knew they would always get me. Now I'm starting to realize that the urges aren't going away anytime soon, so I'm working on dealing with them instead of giving in.

Keep doing the good that you're doing!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 01, 2019, 06:29:46 PM
Fantasized a bit a few days ago. Cut it out again. Had a trigger come up pretty strong in a convo today with a girl. Came out of left field. Luckily afterward I recognized it.

Not much else new. Doing well, being vigilant. Being stricter (avoiding thoughts of sex).
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 01, 2019, 08:33:10 PM
Good stuff. I'm in a similar boat, had some urges crop up today.

Just staying vigilant, too. We'll get through this
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 02, 2019, 07:41:56 PM
Glad to be on the forum! Felt bad all day. My body hurts, super tired but antsy. Forum is reminding me it's all just part of the recovery process. Gonna nap, hope I can sleep. But if I have to get out of bed due to urges, I'll do it. Being tired won't kill me
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 02, 2019, 08:43:54 PM
True! Better tired than relapsed. It's times like these that really count. I know that antsy feeling.

I know I always feel like these urges will never go away unless I give in, but that's not true. They do pass eventually. We're one day closer to beating this round of urges. Hang in there, man (and I will too)!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on May 03, 2019, 12:56:32 PM
Definitely agree with that attitude, sometimes we feel off or not our best but there are always things we can appreciate!

Sorry if I contributed to the slow feeling on here as well; I'll be on here more frequently moving forward as I'm settling into a daily summer routine
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 03, 2019, 06:08:10 PM
Thanks for the support guys! That night was fine. Been doing pretty good, was thinking about an ex girlfriend. (christ how many times have a written this??? lol). Had a great workout today, which was nice. I noticed as soon as I got into my apartment I felt a bit down.... funny cause I felt good most of the day but when I felt that I thought "I am always down!". It's a habit I'd like to break a bit ( alone in apartment = feel lonely and down). It literally is a habit that I seem to just create the feeling, whatever apartment I am living in.

I think it's time to start scheduling my days again soon.... I don't want to work on certain projects but always feel waayyyy bettter when I do.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 04, 2019, 12:16:41 AM
Hey everyone. Man I post a lot.

Been feeling pretty bad today... I hurt my hand somehow and it hurts to type by the way. But gonna suck it up...

Each time I enter my apartment I just feel sad and lonely. Been so tired lately.... I think perhaps I am in a flatline. I was out last night and just had no desire for women. So maybe it's simple as that.... flatline....

Still gotta stay vigilant, I noticed a desire to idk like play with my penis when I was in the shower, so always keep on eye out for that.

At some point, I gotta just decide to will my way to having a good day... just break out of the rut.

So my deadline is Sunday. Sunday (or earlier) I plan to have a good productive day.

1) Having my  goals finally written out.
2) Working on some kind of project. (maybe social skills)
3) Being super prepped for another work test I have.

That reminds me, my first test for work, the speaking thing I spoke about. I passed. I didn't feel too good about it, but that could just be the flatline/ my mood talking. I was told that it was good and rarely do people pass like that. So now I am on to the next one next week. After that I should have the new job. It'll be tough, but I bet it'll add some increased meaning energy and drive to me. I really do have something to look forward too. I am technically un employed at the moment and that always effects people mentally.

Feeling better having written. The nights have sucked fucking hell lol. I was gonna try and say it another way, but I have not been able to get the same pleasure out of reading. I have strong urges and my sleep hasn't been restful. Sigh.... Anyways, like I said. Gonna will myself to be back in business. There really isn't another way. It's been like weeks now of feeling pretty shitty. Just gotta INVEST. Bust my ass while feeling like shit for a few days, then after a few days I'll have the momentum back and feel better.

Commitment: NO sex fantasizing at all tonight. Gotta clear my brain. If I gotta get up and go out, I gotta do it.

Let me end on a positiive note:
I had an awesome workout today
I actually felt good for much of the day (just when I got home that I feel quite bad).
I am pumped about my workout! I am lifting heavy for the first time in like years, and I look forward to the changes I'll see in my body in the coming months. It'll up my confidence, I'll feel better throughout the day AND let's be real, it really helps with the girls. (this is a good thing imo, any man can work out and get an awesome body, with girls they are more effected by genetics.)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on May 04, 2019, 01:20:19 PM
Congrats on passing your test! I definitely feel you on having bad days, alot of the time routine is really good and builds character but we as humans enjoy the spontaneous things in life...meeting new people, going on a first date, new activities. I think once you start your job things will get better as you will have new opportunities and challenges ahead. I appreciate that you are able to find the positive and still try to do good things for yourself no matter how bad things get, it has helped me alot on my journey!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 04, 2019, 07:28:44 PM
First of all, congrats on passing! That's super awesome. Rooting for you for the next step: you've got it!

But I'm also sorry to hear that you're feeling down. I know the feeling, and I know how tough positive thinking can be. You know, it's not as simple as just saying "cheer up." But the fact that you're aware of it and committed to work on it is a good thing. Just don't give into to it. Looking back, a lot of my relapses have come when I was feeling the most depressed and hopeless about the future. Sometimes, I think that PMO is just about sexual urges, but it's about my attitude more generally too.

Anyway, I think I'm rambling now, but keep it going. Things will get better, and you're probably making more progress than you realize. And we're in your corner, too, cheering you on.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 06, 2019, 09:54:27 PM
Thanks for the encouragement guys! I had a very good day yesterday. Today wasn't bad either.

Met a girl yestarday. She was my uber driver.... but........ We met cause I was in the back seat we were talking with her in the front. I could swear she was cute, but I only like saw her eyes. I also could have sworn she turned around and was cute. Anyway, she asked for MY number. We have  date settup.... Now I will feel bad if I am wrong and she is cute but..... I looked at her whatsapp picture and I swear to god it looks like Michael Jackson (the white plastic surgery one!). Like is it a man!? Is she ugly? Or just a terrible picture.....

I remember looking and thinking "she" had nice eyes and was really sweet and girly. But it's weird for a cute girl to be driving uber for a living especially late at night? So I am a lil stressed. Again, I swear I was in the back seat and she looked like a cute girl, but again I was in the back seat....

She was a quirky really smart artsy girl, so maybe she is awkward and took a very weird awful picture?

Anyway lols. WTF. Am I crazy or what?

Also who knows maybe my mind is playing some crazy ass trick on me. I thought the girl was really nice and cute when I met her and she really liked me and asked me out... I was excited maybe it's like my brain playing tricks on me.... like can't just let a girl like me....

Anyway, I am seeing her tomorrow. If it's a transgender I will run away ASAP.  If it's a cute girl, I'll just be like how the fuck do you take such a bad picture????

When I saw the pic I got an urge. That is NOT my PMO induced fetish lol. I got it out of disappointment BUT if it is the case that this girl is a dude or butt ugly, I'll just run, laugh and conciously not get too high or low. It was only a month ago that I had a VERY attractive girl in my bed. So it is possible. Just gotta be patient.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 07, 2019, 06:49:48 PM
Glad you had a couple of good days!

But oh man, good luck with all of that. I hope it's just a bad picture and that the date goes well. It's good that you have a backup plan, though. I hope you have a plan for any urges that come up after, too (if it does turn out bad). I know those disappointment urges too well. When anything even barely relationship related doesn't work out, my brain turns to PMO so fast.

Whatever happens, let us know how it goes. Hopefully it turns out good!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on May 07, 2019, 08:03:38 PM
I second @BlueHeronFan....definitely go on the date but if it’s not what you were hoping for move on with the confidence that there is someone more suitable for you, and watch out for those disappointment urges. Honestly very interested in how this is gunna turn out haha
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 08, 2019, 03:47:09 PM
Lol, thanks for the support guys!

So, the girl showed up very late and was very unnattractive and overweight. My subconcious knew something was wrong, she was sucking in her cheeks I guess. Damn dark Uber haha.

I kind of smoothly (sort of) was able to end it. Didn't want to hurt her feelings. (I do not appreciate the lateness though). She also was quite demanding. Anyways, water under the bridge, I went for a swim as I waited for her and after that the date was like prob 30 min, so it's all good.

I managed to set up another date for that night! The girl canceled though : (. She is on vacation a bit naive and bluntly said she doesn't feel comfortable. I was chill about it, and suggested we hang out on Thurs, she said okay but..... I was a bit lonely and got out of work early so invited her today (too needy) and now she seems to have lost a good bit of interest.
 

BUT: Let's get on to the good news....

I shouldn't have been on that second date anyway. I felt bad but, I totally ignored my feelings and prepped for my presentation (I had another bigger one today) until late. Slept not too well, but did pretty good on the presentation and now have the new job!! To be honest I was so tired I didn't feel too good and was already worrying about it. But hell this is a big victory, really big. Will improve my quality of life and stability for the time being (hopefully it works out). AND this was one of my goals for the Month! So I already acheived one of my big goals.

I was so tired I could barely move, but went to the gym and although I felt awful, in terms of weights lifted; I had my best workout since I restarted working out. Made some good progress towards my strength goals.

Emotions were not good : But I am proud of myself for pushing through, all this will pay off in the future. Was also feeling down about my dating life but, luckily a good friend called me up we chatted and I felt better. Gotta leave the past in the past. Windshield is bigger then the rearview mirror and all that. Put in efforts to improve my life bit by bit.


One last peace of news: That friend who I constantly had issues with. I realized: He ignores me 80% of the time and 80% of the emotions I get in the friendship are negative. I discussed it with several other friends, it's been a pattern. So I am going to take a break from him and be the one to pull back. The plan is a month. Let my mind clear, expand my life. (He talks bad about other friends and is a bit isolating I think). So anyway, I think that will be good for me. The key, is to do it for me. Step back from being treated this way, feel better about myself and have a break to clear my head. Not to punish him.

Also lol- What am I his girlfriend?? Too much drama with this friendship and thought put into it (as you can see above) so looking forward to a much needed break.

Maybe I can suck up my tiredness and KEEP being productive today?
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 08, 2019, 06:59:03 PM
 ;D Huge congrats on the job!  ;D
That's incredible news, and you put in the work, even with all the things that got in your way. Definitely something to celebrate.

Sorry to hear that the first date was weird and that the second one didn't work out. But it sounds like you're handling it better than I would have after the fact. And, hey, even if they didn't really work out, having two dates scheduled for one night is pretty alright if you ask me.

It probably sounds like you're making the right call on that one friend, too. If he's not helping you move forward, he's probably not the right kind of friend to put a lot of effort into right now. Maybe you can have a stronger/healthier relationship in the future, but there's no reason for you to put up with being ignored.

Way to go again on landing that job! Definitely keep being productive and taking care of your needs, but also think about doing something to celebrate. I know I usually let my focus on getting things done keep me from celebrating the good things that happen. You've earned a piece of cake or something, for sure!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 09, 2019, 08:39:05 AM
Thanks for the encouragement! I really like the balanced viewpoint on my friend ( I tend to be extreme). Might not be the best thing right now, but not " GRRR!!!! I will never talk to him again" then flipping too " oh everything was fine". Just a calm break and things could change in the future.

Thanks man! With the dating, I found I handled things better by.... deciding too. I was talking to my friend (not the one I am taking a break from, the one who called me and made me feeling better) about that how planning in advance how to feel, although not perfect. Has an influence. I just was thinking to myself like : Be cool. Practice not getting so up and down with girls. Keep moving forward.

Self talk like that and it's really helping. It's not always easy but it is quite cool, because doing that can allow me to feel like I am improving, learning to follow my own path better, even if the outside situations are not the best.


Update: I caught a nice break!

So, in terms of being productive, I decided to go out and talk to girls. I did it for an hour and a half, just going about town. It was cloudy with few girls out and like no good responses from the girls.... not my day. (I got in one 2 min conversation then the girl pretty much ran away lol). But: I was consciously being less hard on myself thinking "hey, maybe this was not the best use of time but you are taking action! This is good, since you are taking action you will learn from it". I was just really aiming to calm myself.

I still felt not too good and I luckily live a few blocks from the library on the way over, I had a longer conversation with two girls, then made a mistake and it ended lol. But I tried to chill out and consciously not be hard on myself (I just posted about this in Blueheron's journal, I think most people reading this read his as well). I went to the library and could not think of what healthy activitity to do. I ended up just browsing books for like an hour, really taking the time to decide if I REALLY wanted the book. I had a great time really felt calm and just loved it and found 5 awesome books right at the end.

THEN: I went home feeling calmer, planning to perhaps visualize a bit, maybe make a plan to better my social skills and go out that night and.... I check my phone and it turned out that second girl (the one who was the second date, the one that did not happen) had texted me two hours before! ( I don't have text notifications nor check my texts often...) Asking me what I wanted to do!

We went back and forth a bit, I was very chill telling her it was getting late, so we could hang out tomorrow etc. Kept saying "if you want". I said "I have to go out in an hour and half but you can hang here if you want, but It could be late for you" etc. (she previously said she was not comfortable meeting at night). She just send me back "we can relax together until you go with your freinds if you want"! (exclamation point mine lol). 

I invite her to come hang out, she comes. She took awhile and I was sure she was not showing up, but then I go downstairs just to check and there she is! Sitting outside of my building.

We hang out in the library at my building, talking just having a great time. Then we went to the beach. It was a bit of a roller coaster, her saying she just wanted to be friends and not touch each other, me walking away several times, her then getting close to me again.
(Basically instead of pressing a girl when she does not want to be touched, just completely removing all touch not acting upset, but acting like I have lost interest (I actually did). We sat together talked a bunch. She let me drape her legs over mine I had great erections like half the time.

So spoiler: We did not have sex or even kiss.

But it was a great date. She is conservative and visiting my city for just two weeks. I get the feeling she really likes me but wants to protect herself from doing too much with me and misssing me when she leaves

Anyways, she came home with me we sat really close, her legs across mine watched a funny show, talked a lot. I gave her a lot of compliments and was very open about liking her.

We hung out until late. Then I walked her back, she is nervous about walking in the street at night. Anyway, that gave me a huge boost, I had a great time felt really good and we have plans to see each other again today, but even if that was it I was happy with the experience and feel a lot better.

I had a great time, felt a strong connection with a girl, one I have not felt in awhile! This really helped me to get over that other girl from like a month ago who ignored me after spending the night. Plus it was GREAT for rewiring. She was conservative so we mostly touched lightly, to too intimately or sexually, no pressure to perform. BUT I had lots of great erections and definetly felt that healthy sexuality. Just really liking her, having a strong erections but enjoying the moment, desiring her sure, but not feeling some impulsive adrenaline rushy impulsive type of feeling.

Another cool thing, I felt TOTALLY satisfied after the date. I didn't feel I needed more, more contact with a woman. I just felt damn good happy, connected and ready to go home and read some of a funny book I got earlier. Feeling just plain happy this morning. Ready to enjoy my day excited about a few things and really can handle it whether this girl does come see me again today or not. (Also want to use this momentum and confidence to talk to more girls! - She is leaving in like 10 days no matter what happens).

EDIT: Forgot to put this... Something I live about this date is, I was just present. I just really enjoyed the time with her (80% of the time, I wasn't perfect). I am pretty sure it was Pichael who said this. Something to the effect of trying to use girls to prove we can have sex and are cured of PIED. Like almost not being sexual for the desire of it but trying to prove something. I am glad I totally avoided that! I was just enjoying the moment, not putting pressure on me or her to get more sexual. The truth is, if this girl had been super sexual and agressive I probably was not even ready for it! It takes some rewiring time first (it's been awhile....) . So just glad about that.

 Another thing I am glad about it, I was so worried and sure I was not gonna see this girl again, that I screwed things up, that she was going to flake. But I was dead wrong. When I actually feel the connection the girls don't flake nearly as much as I imagine, it's just with getting the number without a connection, that that happens.

This girl I met in a nice BRIGHT walgreens ( not a dark car) lol. She was standing there looking at ice cream. I was like "wow that girl is attractive" didn't expect her to like me. But again, I struck up the convo and she just didn't leave and we kept talking and I could tell she liked me.

Another note: When I am out practicing my skills with women or looking for women I less often meet them. BUT I meet women in my day to day life sometimes totally randomly. BUT, it seems I meet the women randomly when I am consistently working on my skills with women.

Like
Go out to practice skills with women now = Randomly meet a girl, without trying later.
Whereas when I am not practicing that happens less. I guess it is because it is far more genuine, but the practicing keeps my conversation skills good enough and my confidence high enough to start a conversation when I am not ready and see that really attractive girl I want to meet.
 
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: kadeshzelbriel on May 09, 2019, 10:56:44 AM
Congratulations, that's so exciting! I feel the vicarious success. I resonate with a lesson here around connecting better when you're not really in a mood of "trying to meet women." I think women can feel the pressure when we're "trying to meet them," it doesn't feel genuine, etc, but when you actually just genuinely want to connect with someone - easy! And then it's way more satisfying too, when we connect from a genuine place rather than out of all this pressure we feel from being fucking horny and desperate and frustrated. Excited to hear more about what you're learning as you experiment with all this.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 09, 2019, 03:15:20 PM
Thanks bro! Glad you "feel the vicarious success"! I find it really nice to hear success stories too. When I am in a rougher period and see it going well for someone else I remember like "oh yeah! things can be good" plus it motivates me. Or in a good period it just adds to it.

Super on point, I feel like I will never 100% understand how it all works with women. Sometimes it just happens so damn easily and other times it feels impossible, but what you said there definitely seems to be the case and explains a good part of it.


Update: Feeling pretty good today, just posted to keep myself on track. Stay grounded. Down periods are dangerous  but sometimes ups/ excitement can be too! I was all excited about this girl and.... well this is a private journal so I might as well share the tmi/ embarrassment. I was multi tasking, cooking while changing my clothes. I was not wearing anything. I was 1) Thinking "yay things are so great I am going to meet so many women.... then had a flash of some girl in my head". and 2) Moving around quite energetically, which ummm was moving my penis around since I was naked which was actually stimulating in my current no PMO/ having cuddled for like an hour with a hot girl yestarday state. lol

Anyway, that only lasted like 30 seconds before I noticed and was like Wait! I feel good but don't go down any bad roads. So here I am posting and making sure I stay on track and use this happy energy directed into something productive or fun. : )
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 09, 2019, 05:58:36 PM
Wow, this is all great! I'm really glad to hear that you heard from that second girl and that things went well and that it was a fulfilling experience. Awesome that you're feeling good!

It's weird to me how the highs can sometimes be just as triggering as the lows. Like recently when I've had urges when I'm under a lot of stress and now when I have hardly any. I don't really know where I'm going with this other than to say that I know how it goes when you're feeling good and then suddenly realize that you're in a risky position. Way to catch it and move on!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 09, 2019, 09:59:09 PM
Yeah totally true! I guess it's some kind of invincibility feeling or that arrogance creeping in.


So good news (sort of...) I saw the second girl again tonight. Now the bad news is, she now totally shut things down and really "friend zoned me". The connection felt much less and she really just made it like she wants to be friends. BUT, I am still counting that as a date (albeit one that did not go well). Hey, going on two shitty and one good (that led nowhere) date in three days is still pretty good!

I am happy with it as I am consciously focusing on me and my path, not the individual girls, which is huge. So I am happy with myself there and I have the feeling I am progressing with my life. I wrote down some goals and have achieved several already! Tomorrow gonna aim to use this momentum and be happy about the rewiring opportunity I had with the girl and the experience I got PLUS I am going to consciously aim to beat back some of the negative thoughts I occasionally see slipping in.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 10, 2019, 11:26:26 PM
I've gotta call today a win overall. I felt poorly early in the day, but still got done some important stuff I had been putting off. Some of it was simple like meal planning and getting groceries. Also took a step to further my career, making a call I've been putting off. Felt bad most of the time, but did an extra super light workout, just to soothe my joints (light weights not pushing at all). Then went in the pool, with the plan to read. I ended up just hanging out in the pool going underwater and just enjoying the silence over and over, moving around stretching, enjoying being weightless for probably over an hour. Felt much better after that.

Then I got angry a few times at little things, was a bit annoyed with myself over this but hey, this is one area where I have found being hard on myself is definitely not too helpful and I am improving...

I read all of darn it, his username escapes me but... the journal called "rebooting till my boners can crack diamonds". This was helpful and something I planned. I was feeling like something is permanently wrong with me, like maybe I have some mental disorder  since I feel so all over the place emotionally and mentally. I thought "hmmmm, maybe this is just part of the reboot I should read some successful journals" and I saw that it does seem to be part of it, we all go through some crazy emotional stuff in the recovery, I also thought of how I am doing things to progress which is good.

I had wanted to talk to girls today, but am actually glad I forgot all about girls. It was just what I needed, back to basics. I had a good two hours of feeling great, just swimming a lone and going for a nice walk. Good to be able to be happy PMO free and woman free. Not needy for anything.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 11, 2019, 03:10:10 PM
Had a dream last night about porn fetishes and all sorts of nonsense. It's not the best feeling but oh well, it's all a part of the recovery. I thoroughly cleaned my apartment and it is soo much nicer! Really needed that. I did get that done but I don't understand how it is 4:00 pm... this day is going so fast and I feel like I didn't get that much done. But, hey I did some important stuff. Funny how a lot of important stuff really doesn't take all that much time.

Also: I have had morning wood like every day for the last 5 days at least, which is awesome! Hmmm, not sure what to do with the rest of my day. At some point, at least I want to socialize in some form. Haven't much last few days.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 11, 2019, 06:36:53 PM
Sounds like a decent few days. That's awesome that you cleaned. It always makes such a big difference for me. My place didn't really need it, but I did a little tidying just now, and even that makes everything feel more peaceful and nice. Way to take care of yourself by taking care of your surroundings!

I know it's a bummer when you get "friend zoned," and I know I've gone down bad roads PMO-wise when a potential relationship has fizzled out. But, I don't know that I'd be too bummed about a non-romantic friendship with a woman. I know it's maybe not the goal, but part of me feels like it's probably a good thing for recovery to have positive relationships with women where sex isn't on the table. It seems like a lot of the articles and things that I've read about rebooting can be overly focused (in my opinion) on sex, and it sometimes feels like trading one sexual obsession for another. (I know I'm probably being unfair and misrepresenting things, but it is how I sometimes feel.)

To cut it short, sorry that that date didn't work out: that is a bummer! But also don't let yourself feel like a failure when socializing only turns into friendship. I think that's also a huge win and a way to train our brains not to have to see all women as potential sex partners. So keep up the good effort, however it turns it out!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 11, 2019, 08:02:32 PM
Hey, that's a really good point. Heck, I could even bring her out with me to socialize, her being my friend and meet other women while I am there. Plus, I could use more socializing anyway. So, I'll contact her tomorrow and aim to hang out with her.

So, speaking of being too hard/soft on self. I was too soft on myself today! Felt decent but just procrastinated and procrastinated unwilling to commit to doing anything. I got nothing done after cleaning my apartment, nothing fun nor productive. Grrrrr. Well a lesson learned. Working is fun! I feel much better when I push myself to get things done. I am sooo tired, as I did nothing all day I just got more and more tired. Tomrrow, I am going to commit to pushing hard! I did this last Sunday and it was great, time to bring it back....

At some point gotta go harder and keep the momentum up..
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 12, 2019, 12:01:24 AM
Went out a bit.... wasn't 100% feeling it. But glad I went was in a few conversations met some cute dogs, that somehow were allowed in this outdoor lounge.

Thinking to myself, I could use more passion in my life, not like dating passion, having a passion. I have heard this a lot. Have a passion be great at it and be on your path and let that get you girls....

I worked hard and am decent at approaching women, but was thinking like really? Do i want to have to go out several times a week to meet girls whenever I am single or want to socialize? Wouldn't it be cooler to have something cool I am doing? Idk performing of some kind.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 12, 2019, 02:28:10 PM
Moving along, I  feel pretty good about today.


Feeling some random physical type anxiety in my chest, this is quite common. I am glad that I scheduled and got done some important work... which is what I wanted.

Working really is the best.... Something I thought about a few days ago and am experiencing... on the bad days you feel bad either way. Like sitting around doing nothing you feel bad and getting stuff done you feel bad... so may as well get stuff done because it allows you to feel a little bit better after and much better a few days later when momentum is built and in the times when you succeed because you put in the work. Experienced that right now, I got work done. Felt not on my A game and a bit anxious, once I have finished and am relaxing eating lunch, the anxiety was just the same probably a bit more. But writing this journal and celebrating having gotten the work done has me feeling a little less anxious. So it's a big win/win! Get work done= work done and it takes the edge off the bad days a little. Also, as I posted yestarday feeling good and getting no work done hurt my momentum. So it's better to usually work on good days too. All with in reason, taking time to enjoy self as well.

I had another porn dream this am, I think I had the porn dream, woke up for a second and feel back asleep until right around my alarm clock. Honestly, I am going to look at this as progress I have been shutting down the porn thoughts like 10x faster lately and I didn't get them in dreams before....

My logic is:
Before -fantasizing about porn and sex often- No dreams
 Now- Not fantasizing about porn, being much stricter, getting morning wood more often- Porn dreams sometimes.

It is coming with a lot of other good symptoms and interestingly enough my arousal in the dreams is not insanely strong. So I think it's either A) My brain is processing that shit out while I sleep. Or B) The thoughts aren't coming out or being engaged with while awake, so they are trying to come out while I sleep.

Either way it's progress in my book. Having weak porn dreams is waayyyy better then doing it consciously while awake. So it's progress.


Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 12, 2019, 07:04:41 PM
Lots of good stuff in your posts, way to be!

I think that's a great idea to go socializing with that girl. What better way to meet women than through a mutual friend?

I know what you mean about finding a passion. I can think of about 100 things I want to work on and do, but I have trouble finding a single passion that sort of drives them all. There are things I like and things that I think would be valuable, but I don't if there's something that I just have to do to feel like I'm achieving my passion. That's definitely something I've been thinking about lately.

I also really know that feeling of anxiety in the chest. It's been with me for a few months it seems like. I just keep hanging on and trying to take care of myself as best as I know how, figuring it will ease up at some point. Sorry you're dealing with it too. (But also glad it's not just me)

Porn dreams are weird, and I've never known what to do with/about them. I haven't had any in a pretty long while, but the last few I've had have been about resisting or refusing porn, which I take as a good sign. Who knows what our brains are processing when we dream about porn? But I definitely agree that it's better to have it show up in dreams than in real life.

Hope you have a great start to the week!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 12, 2019, 11:05:22 PM
Thanks man! Hope you have a great start to the week too!

Like you said, it's really nice to hear other people have that feeling in the chest. In my darker moments a lot of the time I worry/ think that I have some kind of underlying disorder. Sure, I probably have a lot to work on etc. after quitting porn. But hearing other people have the same feelings going on, makes me a lot more hopeful it's just part of recovering from the addiction and will pass/ is not some permanent part of me.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 13, 2019, 10:07:24 AM
So I set some goals. Some of them I was uncertain about. I thought "hmmm, I should not take away goals once I set them, thats a bad habit". But I took them out of my notebook. Since then I am feeling anxious and have some triggers, the first strong one in a LONG time. Okay, I am going to go swim! (Just thought of this now). This is my first reasonably strong craving in a long time. So, I will turn it into a positive and go do another activity so that I replace it. After that I'll plan out the day and refind some direction. Swim to get mind right first.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: LeanAndBop on May 13, 2019, 12:12:47 PM
Hey man that sounds like a wise decision. I hope you are well. I find doing push ups useful when I have an urge.
All the best
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 13, 2019, 02:57:53 PM
I did a light workout, my muscles were super tired. But I feel much better. Probably going to go to the beach and swim a bit soon. I guess today won't be massively product. I am however, focusing on talking to girls in MY DAY TO DAY LIFE. I talked to like three girls and it feels soooo much better then going around looking for girls wasting time. Anyways, thats a big adjustment. I think this may be something I do moving forward. It's odd, in my day to day life I feel like I see pretty girls everywhere, but when I am actively looking for girls it feels like I am walking around for hours and barely see any hmmm.

Anyway, that's fine by me. So, going to experiment with this, just sort of planning to talk to pretty girls when I see them and have the time, rather then going out walking around to look for girls. Better for my lifestyle I think.

Edit: So the girl that "friendzoned" me we saw each other last night. It's an interesting situation. She won't let me kiss her but there is a lot of sexual tension. Last night we touched each other a lot, I often had my hand on her lower back, or my arm around her waster with her arm around my shoulders. No matter what happens, honestly I am having a great time with her so probably going to see her today in a little bit.

Just wanted to point out: My mind a few times today has tried to jump into sexual fantasy about her. SHUT THAT SHIT DOWN. Enjoy the real moments. Whats gotten me here is shutting that shit down. So going to be as strict as possible keeping that shit OUT OF MY MIND. No mercy on it. The stricter I am the more morning wood, the more I give off real natural sexuality. Plus, I may not feel great all of the time BUT I feel a hell of a lot better when I am free of that.

Man I post a lot lol. The forum last few days is like 1/3rd me posting lol
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 13, 2019, 03:05:19 PM
Also, thanks lean and bop for the support! It was a great decision. I had pretty much completely forgotten feeling bad and urges this am.... That was a great opportunity, to replace urges and anxiety with a healthy activity and I took full advantage!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 13, 2019, 03:45:45 PM
Posting my ass off today. Oh well whatever works. Sexual thoughts keep popping up in my head, so just posting to break the cycle.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 13, 2019, 04:52:41 PM
The girl just cancelled on me five minutes before she was supposed to show up. Said she doesn't feel well. Damn it. This stinks, I was looking forward to it and don't really have another plan. She is now not taking my calls. Oh well, I guess I will stop hanging out with this girl.

Man, I sometimes feel like I hate women. When I feel like I like a girl and have a real connection with them, they don't give a fuck and are willing to just ghost me like it's nothing. The lesson is, to I guess not put too much into them emotionally at least not before they are really my girlfriend. Probably shouldn't air out negative beliefs but I feel like women just don't give a fuck. Like if they want to hang with you they will, if they don't they won't. Like me setting aside the time does not matter.

Anyways, I was thinking to focus more on a social circle, make more friends invite a bunch of people out to events. This way each individual person is not as important, plus I can meet girls in that context. Grrrr.. I gotta get it together now, stay on track.

I wanted to post "this is throwing me off". But no, I need to take responsibility, fucking urges today then was relying on the girl and going out to feel better. Gotta just make a plan and execute it, for this evening. Keep occupied.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 13, 2019, 04:57:35 PM
Well, I feel like I hate women right now and can never trust them. I guess we got pretty intimate and she was conflicted the entire time and got nervous or something.... Oh well, honestly I don't think I am ready for a relationship right now. I am rebooting, but I am perfectly okay with casual sex as long it's nothing crazy. I really really invest too much emotionally in girls too quickly.

I think I invest too much emotionally in the girls and otherwise, like I keep telling the girls i like them, complimenting them etc. Girls don't like that shit.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 13, 2019, 10:32:48 PM
Well, it looks like it's me and me in the journal lol. I calmed down a bit. This girl is leaving soon anyway, a big worry I had was like

"Omg every time I like a girl they disappear I can not trust women yadda yadda". The girl 1000% has been conflicted and clearly really liked me, she said she was sick so....

Maybe she was
1) Actually sick
2) Nervous
3) Scared that she will keep liking me more, and would miss me or not control herself and have sex with me.

Honestly these are the most likely scenarios AND they are the best to keep in mind anyway, why think something negative like:

"Grrrr women flake and I can't trust them ever....." That is just a good way to feel awful and to have pmo cravings and rationalizations. I posted some stuff while angry, but it was a moment where getting my feelings out was useful to me.

It is almost shocking, but I feel pretty good now. I got through all the urges and bad feelings. I went to a new dance class I like, full of nice friendly women. I was feeling so awful at the beggining of class, but bit by bit people were friendly with me and by the middle or so I was having lots of fun joking around having nice conversations. Then I went to eat at this cheap cafe/cafeteria and spoke to the woman there. (Not for dating purposes she is older but is fun and friendly) by the end of all this socializing I felt way better! (I also stopped to see a friend who works at library on way to dance class).

This really reaffirms: I gotta put efforts into building more of a social life. I keep having like a few friends at once. no no no, how about having like regular friends. Not just really intimate ones. Just being able to say message a bunch of people to go hang out at some place and joking around would be great! This is my natural personality and I see how being around people I know, just is fun, meaningful and really helps regulate my emotions. So, that is something to work on... Build out my social/fun life.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 14, 2019, 08:54:41 AM
Had some slight nightmares last night. Woke up feeling a bit "off". But I spent like 30 minutes or more reading a good book and feel pretty good . The girl got back to me (said she feels better). Maybe she was actually sick.

Had some morning wood AGAIN. It was mild today, but still, this is pretty awesome of course...

Key is, just stay the course........ I notice sometimes when feeling good, my brain wants to think about/ fantasize about dating real girls BUT... what happens is this.


"Wow, I feel so good everything is great"---> "I am going to have a great time with this cute girl or meet a cute girl soon"---> "Wow it'd be so fun, we'd walk around hang out etc" (up until this point it's mostly okay)-----> "Imagine having her hear now!"---> "And imagine if we were in bed...."----> *imagining sex*---> After a point it becomes dissatisfying/ disappointing----> Wilder sex-----> Extremely strong urges-----> Lost in fantasy about porn induced fetishes.

Which then leads to more urges, feeling like shit. Goddamn super nearly looking at porn some weeks ago, and losing morning wood and penis not working if I end up with a girl, plus being weirdly impulsive sexually and all that bad stuff. So FUCK that.

So, anyways avoiding that and being aware.

I am pretty proud of myself over yesterday; a lot of strong emotions and urges and I got over all of them and managed to have a good evening. That was some of the best emotional resilience/ turn around in mood I have had, at least that quickly. So I say that is progress..

I had kind of known this but I read it recently in someone's tips... QUALITY of the reboot is super critical I realize. Gotta be clean. Fantasizing about porn and all that bullshit still is addictive (at least for me, STRONGLY for me) so cutting it out totally is just a huge help. I think thats when my dopaine receptors and brain have the real chance to heal and my emotions have a real chance to get processed or I at least learn to handle my emotions without an addition.

Damn just as I finished the post started thinking about that girl. I pushed it out right away. As I have read in other journals.... the FOUNDATION is no pmo no matter what! But, that gives me the opportunity to change other habits. I simply spend waaayyyy too much time in fantasy world. Fantasizing about women, fantasizing about success. With women, do it less! It takes me away from reality, perhaps having me feel too connected to girls (fantasizing about stuff that's not real) rather then just taking our actual relationship for what it is. Plus it's distracting and can lead to neediness. I also want to daydream a little less, but won't be too hard on myself. Avoiding the mental triggers is priority, plus no one is perfect.

Edit: Just re-read my first post in this thread/journal. Ups and downs happen, but I have come a long way! A nice quote "Happiness is not pleasure happiness is victory!" If feels good to be winning against this, getting farther and farther from pmo. Failing at things but handling them better etc.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 14, 2019, 06:14:21 PM
Man, sorry I was out yesterday, it sounds like it was an eventful one! I'm happy to hear that you're getting through the urges and the bad emotions. That's tough stuff, and I think making it through yesterday shows you're making a lot more progress than it probably feels like. Keep it up!

I really support your idea to just focus on being more social. The best dating relationship I ever had started as a really solid friendship and grew from there. I don't think there's any reason to rush to kissing or sex for its own sake. Go out, make friends, have fun, and the rest will come.

I remember hearing once that the opposite of addiction is connection, not sobriety. Addiction isolates us because we have to hide ourselves for PMO, then we hide ourselves because we're ashamed, then our thoughts tell us that women are awful and will never treat us right, then we hide to watch porn, etc. I don't know that I believe that just being social is all it takes to fix an addiction, but I do think it's an important part of it. And, like I might have mentioned before, I think there's a lot to be gained in terms of changing our mindset from pursuing just friendships with women. PMO has made it all about sex for me for too long, so, even thought it's of course something I want eventually, I don't want sex to be the focus of my recovery. That just seems like trading one obsession for another similar one. Oh well, just my two cents.

Keep going strong! You've got this, man!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 14, 2019, 10:38:38 PM
Thanks bro, that is an awesome insight! Really helpful to hear that, because things are going very well, except my brain is doing exactly that, telling me that women are awful. It seems real, and I know that road.... feeling either women will never like me or that it will never work out or in this case that women are just all nasty and awful lol. All of them lead to "well fuck it, may as well PMO" etc. It is good to see it as something of a weird trick of the addiction, creating thought patterns that lead to rationalization to PMO. So have to not listen to all thoughts and challenge them.

I have had (albeit not as much as I have wanted) nice women/ relationships in my life before. Addiction absolutely is isolating, so a process connected to this I guess, is going through all of these crazy thoughts and nonsense that pops up, it's like a bunch of BS has to be shed while leaving the isolation of PMO and moving into being more connected as well as (although not making this the priority) having real women a part of my life romantically and otherwise.

Some good stuff today, just a few observations of some threats I want to write before I forget them:
Something my brain does is super bizarre. I'll have fantasies pop into my head that seem totally real, of women bringing up my PMO fetishes and me being like "pfffttt I am not into that" or saying I am not into it. Now if I was full of shit I would say this was a good thing, since it's like woah I am turning them down! But that is total bs lol. It's just a super crafty way that an urge comes up, after all it is all going on in my head. it's like this weird fantasies where all these girls are into these fetishes but I am acting like I am not into it. It's hard to explain but I can "feel" it, it's just another way the weird ass addicted part of my brain is sending me stuff about the fetishes and is an urge of sorts. Luckily I am shutting it down quick as hell. I am glad to write it down, since it is so tricky and putting it to paper will allow me to really stamp it, that these are thoughts to shut down.

It is similar to the "engaging in curiosity sexually on the internet" I remember a guy had a journal and he talked about how he a few times would google like " how to get over _____ fetish" or did you regret engaging in _____ fetish. These are always just crafty ways to get roped back in. It's a weird rationalization thing, this curiosity or like looking into the fetish in the negative "I don't want this" it's still a way to think about it. Better is just to cut the thoughts out 5000%.

Anyways, really appreciate the post bluehero, because I had a really good day EXCEPT for being really upset over women and thinking they are evil lol. So I guess I'll just chalk that up to the addiction as best I can and give myself time to adjust.

Today, I FINALLY completed everything and started the first day of my new job! This is a huge win, I really enjoyed it. It hasn't sunk in yet, but I now have a job that so far, I have enjoyed, is doing something I like and I will be making decent money and working good and fairly short hours. It's crazy! I have never been in this position before. So this is a huge win, I am still nervous, but assuming this keep going as they are, this area of my life. My work/ financial life will be in a decent spot. I think this is a huge win and can really help build my confidence and happines over the next few months.

Random but important: I succckkkk at cooking, but 4 blocks away I can get healthy food at this cool latin cafe for like the same money as cooking. I am tired of cooking disgusting food and throwing it out, starting kitchen fires etc. lol I have been eating there the last few days and it's actually really adding to my life. I can go and eat one meal there, it's got the latin culture so people are really friendly and people talk to each other, so I get to practice spanish and it really boosts my mood. Just being around nice happy people. So why make life harder? Instead of cooking for 30 minutes, I could spend 30 minutes total walking there and back, have a nice quick meal there talking to friendly people then buy extra food to go for my other meals.

Random: This reminds me of : Theory vs reality. I have read so many books saying it is so nice to make things yourself. I try all sorts of projects.... Drawing, cooking, making things out of wood. I have completely disliked and been stressed by every single one of these things and try them every couple of years to remind myself of how much I suck at and dislike them lol

This is not a negative, it's just not what I like or what I am good at. I am:
Good at learning languages
Good at public speaking
Decent at writing (Maybe not great, but like I can write aaa tooonnnn and enjoy myself doing it,)

There are things I actually enjoy and am good at. But then I focus on what I can't do.

"I want to learn to sing"
"Wow it'd be so cool to be able to draw"
"Wow cooking is so cool!'
"Salsa dancing!"
 
I disliked and sucked as much as humanely possible at all of these things...

It remind me of something zig ziglar said:

Person:
"If only I had his singing talent!"
"If only I could dance like him!"
"Wow! If I  had his charisma"

Zig:
If you had ANOTHER person's talent you wouldn't do a thing!.... IF you are not using your own talents!

There are things I naturally enjoy and am fairly good at..... why not do them? Instead of seeing the grass as greener?

Just as an example. I have been horrible at so many minimum wage jobs and gotten fired over the years..... I am awful with details, can't operate a cash register properly. I forget details. I get frustrated. Now today I did a job that was like 80% public speaking... it was literally the easiest work day of my life.... It's considered a tough job and was hard to get, but for me it was easy. On the other hand I have been fired or failed at like 90% of other jobs I have done.... So there is something to be said for doing things that I was actually meant to do.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 15, 2019, 08:28:13 AM
A little update: I had a dream about pmo related fetishes and lapses and in the dream I felt major regret afterward. Wow... THANK GOD, it was not real. No morning wood today.

Again, I am viewing these dreams as a positive. I super obviously have been doing better in this same time period since having the dreams and I can't really control them anyway, so why worry? One positive is, how awful I felt in the dream, the regret. So that is actually a good thing, it gives me extra motivation. I got to be reminded how horrible a lapse really is and get extra motivation without it actually happening.

When I first cut out junk food this would happen to me. I would have dreams about binge eating then feel this extreme regret afterwards and wake up, I'd feel sooo grateful like "Thank god I didn't actually do that!" and it'd be so easy to stay away from the junk food.

Didn't have morning wood this am, again no big deal I've been moving forward.

Something really nice: Just about every night I can go right in bed, read for a while get tired and fall immediately asleep, wow! That is how i used to be and it has been awhile since I was in that position. It is so nice. Now it may not be perfect, but I have been also staying in bed reading a bit some mornings, basically my bed feels like more of a place to read and feel calm and peaceful rather than a place to get urges lately. Which is really nice.

Still gotta always stay vigilant and block out the thoughts that pop into my head of pmo and fetishes! That is really important, good progress is happening and gotta keep doing what I have been doing.

Also not to be negative BUT, I should be ready for anything:
What if I get really sick and feel like shit all the time: STILL be PMO and fantasy free
What if this job doesn't work out?: Still be PMO free and fantasy free
What if I get with a girl I really like and my dick still doesn't work?: Still be PMO and fantasy free

I don't like thinking about this stuff and even get slight urges when I think of things going on, but still I want to just be ready for anything. Inevitably bad things happen, so I need to be PMO free whether things are going bad or good.

EDIT: Also just to record something. I was reading someone else journal and caught myself thinking "I can't really stop masturbating forever? Thats crazy" ---> This is a very early "rationalization thought" which could later turn into an MO lapse or through some convoluted addiction logic into looking at porn. It may sound weird to the outside world, but no for me MO is not healthy. I have had enough YEARS of problems with this addiction and my dick not working etc. I have had 100+ day streaks and ended up just as bad or worse after MOing just one time! It's not me doing nofap for no reason or some religious thing (nothing against religion but I am not religious). It is logical, for me it's been an unhealthy addiction for pretty much my whole life and caused me a TON of problems. I feel much better not doing it and my body will simply have wet dreams if it needs to. Gotta remember that. Most people can drink alcohol, people who got addicted to it can not. This is not some woah is me thing. No big deal, normal person, great life just no P or M. I like the smart manual and it is pretty clear about it, basically once something has been an addiction total avoidance has a really high success rate and moderation basically never works. (Not never but basically never) And I know for sure moderation of PMO has not worked for em in any shape or form. Masturbating ALWAYS led to relapsing fully. Every single time. I don't want to go through that ever again.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 15, 2019, 04:00:24 PM
Had a great day at work. Sure there may be ups and downs. But wow, for once I am making decent money, doing something I like and not working for too many hours. It's unreal. I performed well at work and felt a nice confidence boost. Just wow want to express my gratitude for this job.....

Man persistence is key, luck too I guess. I tried so many jobs and applied to so many things, really ended up with this job due to yes persistence but also luck... But I gotta give myself some credit, I stayed in motion.. I kept looking and that got me this job.

Each day of work so far it's like a little shot of happiness and confidence, this'll be huge I expect.

Hope everyone is doing well!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 15, 2019, 06:08:10 PM
Congrats on starting the job! That really is an awesome thing that will probably help a lot.

Oh, I know these weird rationalization tricks. For a long time I'd play this weird game where I'd google things that I knew might bring up porn without googling things that were porn. It was like "let's see how close I can get without actually looking at porn." It always ended in relapse. Always. I don't care if you tell yourself you're not going to search for porn and that you're just searching for something that is close to porn or about porn or about not wanting porn; that's a dangerous road to go down. Way to be for catching that kind of thinking and taking steps to deal with it.

I also really love what you said about using your talents. Like I think I mentioned in my own journal, I've been trying to figure out what it is I really want instead of letting people and things like school just tell me what to do. I'm going to think about my talents and how to use them instead of trying to do what other people would do with theirs.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 15, 2019, 07:48:23 PM
100% Nail on the head about those weird rationalizations. Good to always keep them in mind.

 It's funny I wrote that just yesterday I really enjoyed public speaking today then I immediately think. Wow! I should learn to sing! LOL.

Well, I am glad I made that post because it got me to get a whole bunch of books out of the library on writing. No pressure, but I'll give it a go and see if I enjoy expanding on my writing. 

Edit: One last thing. I have had a really nice shift the last several days. I went form mostly bad mood, sad anxious negative emotions with touches of feeling better to Mostly feeling good and positive with touches of negative emotion. It's a really nice shift and good to be in a good spot lately. Gotta keep it up.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 15, 2019, 09:47:11 PM
Boy am I posting a lot, but it's all good... I've been in a good place lately and it's helping keep me there. Plus it's good to record my thoughts/ observations now when I am at my best.

Just wanted to mention, I still am having brief flashes of fetishes popping into my head, but I am brushing them off basically instantly in like a second, they are easy to recognize and easy to brush off quickly. Just wanted to record this as it's just a part of the process, still pushing those thoughts out. It's just very easy.

Not sure whether to go out or not. I guess I should.... I have the day free tomorrow and that could be my time to rest and read etc. Though I am enjoying my book....

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: WilltoPower on May 15, 2019, 09:51:35 PM
Congrats on job and glad to hear you're having a great day! Good on you for catching those flashes!

Keep up the work.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 15, 2019, 10:56:44 PM
Thanks willtopower! Really appreciate it. I also appreciate your comment in your journal about my support! That gave me a really nice realization: Just posting on this journal in general and being involved in being supported and supporting, being part of a community; is really benefiting me in terms of my personality/ how I see things! I notice myself just feeling a bit more amiable and open to others then in the past, I believe this forum has helped me build the habit/ mental model.


Well, I should have listened to my body. Felt amazing but tired, it was a REALLY active and productive day. I made myself go out, took an uber and promptly felt my voice going then my knee and ankle started getting sore lol. I was just at that perfect sweet spot, I exercised a lot and worked a lot and was in the perfect "happily tired" state just before over doing it.

Oh well, I came right back home will speak and stand no more and recharge tomorrow! Lesson learned also follow my own plan... not going out chasing girls so much and focusing on BUILDING MY LIFE, which I did well today. A good life comes first, (I notice the more fun I am having the less desparate I feel for girls) then the women will follow I reckon.

Have a good night everybody!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 16, 2019, 10:17:25 AM
Feeling pretty stressed about throat.... I had off today but if I didn't I'd  be screwed. I guess I just gotta think proactively. I have to learn bettter speaking technique and I'll be okay. Simple as that. Still a little nerv wracking and frustrating as I talk a lot usually.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: LeanAndBop on May 16, 2019, 02:23:04 PM
Hope you are OK Quit. Thanks for your posts you have positive energy.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 16, 2019, 04:14:55 PM
Thanks lean and bop! I really appreciate the encouragement and kind words. It helps me to keep moving forward and build momentum. And it's always great to have support.


You know I think I read this somewhere, but when there is a problem taking action to fix it just makes you feel better. It still sucks I miss talking but I am doing everything I can to take care of my throat.

I threw out all hot sauce. (bad for throat)
Not eating any dairy ( also can cause issues)
Got tea with honey

AND I called a singing school and made an appointment to see a teacher there. The owner of the school asked around and found a teacher who said she thinks she can help. Not really to sing but singers know how to use the voice properly. So I have an appointment for next week and can hopefully improve my speaking technique to stay healthy.


Taking all this action to try and help myself, makes me feel good about myself. It's good for my self image- I feel like "I am the type of guy who will fight to take care of himself/ fight to make things work in his life!". So I feel good about that. Worst case, I got some numbing spray and can use that to get through work if I need to for the short term.

So glad to post here because it gives me an idea:

Make lemonade! I got a ton of good books of the library yesterday and remember I said I got some books on how to write?
This could be a fun day to read my butt off and perhaps try my hand and writing. Plus take a nap lol, perhaps it's a cold as I do feel tired. Either way, going to keep things going. Stay vigilant and do whatever I can to get/ stay healthy. And a KEY is to avoid my self pity thoughts "waahhhh I just got a good job now I am losing my voice I am cursed" or whatever.

It's logical, I may have a cold/ a persistent bug and I likely have bad speaking technique. Get healthy and learn proper singing technique and the problem will be solved. It's not personal, just handle the problem and aim to stay optimistic.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 16, 2019, 06:06:20 PM
Colds are a drag, but it sounds like you're in a good spot overall! That's awesome!

I guess all I can say is keep moving forward!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 16, 2019, 07:49:42 PM
Thanks!

My body is telling me to rest so this evening I am not doing ANYTHING. I stopped at the library bought food for tomorrow and am actually looking forward to this. Doing anything is annoying right now, thats fine just my body telling me to rest.

I have a funny book and the sequel to the funny book! Gonna look forward to pretty much just reading to my hearts content
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 16, 2019, 11:48:12 PM
Quick little check in! Had a moment of stress with some noisy neighbors (someone airbnbing next door). But I was probably 40% less stressed then I was by this sort of thing even a week ago. So I am in a improved spot, handling things better.

Had a few PMO things pop into my head, brushing them off easily, but posting to keep myself honest!

Read nearly the whole book and had a great time! A few pages left. Man it's nice, I feel so indulgent just reading a nice funnny book and eating fruit. It's a good place to be. And really it is real pleasure, I feel so much better then I would surfing youtube for example ( or worse). Clear headed, rested happier.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: LeanAndBop on May 17, 2019, 04:37:48 AM
Sounds great! A good place to be.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 17, 2019, 10:35:22 AM
Thanks man!

So it seems like I guess most of my throat issues is due to being a little sick. Which I guess is better then if i had some throat injury that could be recurring. I am going to CONSCIOUSLY aim to be positive about this.

Simple, just deal with it, stay  positive and when I have to work take over the counter stuff so that my throat works well enough.

Also being super positive can't hurt. I am going to try and will myself to be better. Positive self talk. "My immune system is strong, my throat is healing". Easier said then done to think that way.

Also going to eat super healthy now.... I was not eating enough veggies, when I have a daily smoothie I mostly stay healthy so going to be a lot more disciplined about it. I just drank one and it was delicious. 

I am feeling a bit sorry for myself BUT, the journal is a good opportunity for me to challenge the thoughts I guess.

Thinking like "waahhh I am always sick, I have a weak immune system etc."

Versus:
It's normal, I have a cold or something or maybe I've had some strange bug for awhile now. I've been sick before and always gotten better, and it probably will get better soon. Plus I really don't feel that bad. I am probably at like 70% capacity, plus normally when I go about my days, I'll actually feel better.

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 17, 2019, 11:26:22 AM
Enjoying reading my book, was going to go to a yoga class but feeling really tired so decided to rest. Enjoying reading the book but still gotta watch myself, had a few slight cravings pop into my head.

Was just going to write that I am stumped, but I have a plan.....

Going to leave my apartment and go lay down/ read by the pool or by the beach. I'll still be resting but it may help with cabin fever and allay the cravings a bit. After that I can plan on whats next.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 17, 2019, 05:10:28 PM
Great stuff! I'm glad you've found a good book (and a sequel!), and I think chilling by the pool is probably a good idea.

I'm with you on thinking about eating more healthy. It's not that I've been eating junk, but I could definitely get more vegetables in there.

Good luck with the recovery (from the cold as well as the recovery we're all working on)!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 17, 2019, 07:48:31 PM
Thanks! Funny you mention veggies, been eating a lot more today and I really think it's doing me good. Carrots, peppers and cucumber raw and plain are actually yummy!

The pool was lovely, laying in the sun for like an hour, spoke to a few people by the pool, it was very refreshing. I was unsure as to whether I should go to the gym... I did and had a really nice workout! Felt the best I have in weeks. I did more volume lower weight, my body loved it. My joints had been hurting a bit. I felt my muscles work a lot more and felt nice a loose and warm after with a pump, versus stiff and joint pain.

I went for a walk, checked out bookstore and went back to gym and hit heavy bag and stretched! Getting a sweat going was really nice.

I noticed I am "noticing women" more. The funny thing is, not until I started noticing them did I notice that I had not been noticing them for the last few days. (Interesting sentence structure I notice ;).  This is a somewhat bad thing as I recognize it as a very slight trigger/craving, but it's not too strong and it's really nice that it hadn't been there lately.

Felt really good with all my working out. I feel calm and aware. I felt some sadness, like I am missing out, I should be doing more on friday night. But I was very aware of it, calmly aware and was thinking of the feeling. I think it is something of a habit. I had a nice day, I spoke to friendly people, rested read a nice book worked out. I'll probably go out and watch basketball a bit, and I got some good rest. As far as a sick day/ recovery day goes I had a great time.

So, I think when younger I felt I was missing out a lot, so the feeling is habitual. Sure, I'd like to add things but I think it's mostly the feeling. I oddly would feel it even when with people sometimes. Just self-awareness'll help I think.

I have been listening to hypnosis recordings, much better for me then meditation. Been feelimg good so may as well keep in mind what is working.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 18, 2019, 08:18:52 AM
I ended up staying in, did some reading and tried to get to bed really early. So I am clearly a little bit sick, but I am in fairly good spirits. I'll take a bunch of over the counter stuff eat healthy etc. ( I have work next two days).

For the first time in awhile I had some legit fairly strong cravings. Thoughts popping into my head like "All I want is __________ fetish". I was really tired and was in bed half asleep, with this stuff popping in my head. Eventually I turned light back on and started reading a bit and that helped.

The good news is I NEVER engaged in conscious fetish fantasy or anything, I am happy to be not doing that, it's been feeling great and man is it nice to stay where I am......

Now, being clear headed. I feel much nicer, more self-aware. I was worried I was brain damaged a week or two ago now it's like "oh cool my brain actually works!" I feel like I can think, I can plan, I am mostly aware of my own thoughts and feelings. I still have a long way to go but it's nice to see that this mental state is at least possible for me. I am thinking keep taking care of myself a lot, as I have been then at some point slowly start to do more so I can get used to calmly gettting more done.

 Even fantasizing about the fetishes TOTALLY throws things off. For me it's nearly the same as P. It's like some crazy trance. I'd have ended up with likely a flatlilne, as well as that awful anxiety back in my chest. It makes me act all weird and stressed around women, so my improving social life would be fucked up. (I've been getting a long better with women lately, I can act normal). It would be such an awful feeling and there is literally no benefit. I can now enjoy myself in bed in healthy way. I can take naps, read in bed etc. I've been enjoying my time in my apartment! I am proud of this and it took my some time to build, so I want to KEEP IT UP.

(Just a bit of my reasons the positives of staying PMO/fantasy free and negatives of lapses- To maintain and increase my motivation).

As far as last night: I may have very slightly over reached: 1) I went right into bed to read: It's nice that I can read in bed now, but still it's usually better for me to read on the couch until really tired, then read a bit and sleep. This is also kind of fun for some reason. Reading on the couch, just indulging in a book, not feeling like I should be sleeping or anything. So I'll keep this in mind.
2) I had forgotten to do a hypnosis recording and I did it really late in the evening and in my bed, during it a few craving thoughts popped into my head. So also, I can make efforts to do it sooner in the evening and not do it in bed.

All in all, I got to sleep really early so even with waking up a few times I slept a ton and I feel fairly at peace. I am a little sick.... so I'll do what I need to do to get through work, by staying home a lot and being a little less active, which is okay. Slightly nervous about how my voice will be, but again, I think I can use the numbing spray and I'll be alright.

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 18, 2019, 10:54:48 AM
Sort of checking in for no real reason...

A few things, that'll I want to remember/ expand on later.

Being happy without women (just dating/ realtionship won't make me happy- happy first then getting girls is a nice side dish/ benefit but it's not the core).

Staying vigiliant!

Man- it's awesome that I am actually enjoying rest in a healthy way sooo much. This is big and an important habit.

Next week- Festival is coming to town, it brings a bad crowd and a lot of nosie. Prepare for it without getting doom and gloom.

Get lots of books and use ear plugs.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 18, 2019, 02:38:48 PM
So, there was an issue at work, totally unrelated to me but we closed early and I worked only briefly. But luckily my voice felt okay. I am definitely sick, this is actually a good thing, because I feel like I just kind of push through and talk, for the most part and be uncomfortable.... that is a lot better then having some vocal injury or some chronic problem. My job is slightly less consistent then I thought but still is a great start.

I am noticing women's body parts quite a bit today... So gotta stay vigiliant.

I remember what happens

"Oh, It's a real women I can look at her"
"MMM let me think about sex with her- She's a real woman and I feel good! So this must be good for me, it's not pmo"
By that night *thinking really intensely about sex with her*----> Then it's not as satisfying.

Diving into intense less standard sexual fantasies or memories.
Then getting super strong urges and getting lost in PMO fetish fantasies, not sleeping that night and basically setting my recovery WAY back.

I also keep wanting to go on tinder.

Part of me is saying "well it'd be a good way to date women". BUT- I think I know better. Let me be honest with myself. My desire to go on tinder is not a logical "well, I could get some dates!". My desire to go on it IS AN URGE. It is part of my addiction, at least when used improperly.

I went on there looking for girls and hoping they'd want to engage in PMO fetishes. I'd look through photos hoping to find something triggering. I did perhaps my most shameful thing ever on tinder.

So, yeah. Stay away from that shit. It actually was the start of a TON of my lapses in the past year. Gotta find the balance.

A balance between.
Yeah I want to meet women.
But doing it without it being some impulsive or doing it because I think I am horny (Which oftentimes is pmo trigger compulsivness)

Anyways, getting that stuff off my chest. I guess I am somewhat in a valley of my recovery. It's like an upward trend but there are peaks and valleys. Last few days more urges. BUT, the urges are sooo sooo much more managable then in the past. BUT I still can not get arrogant....

The funny books I was reading are biogrpahies of a drug addcit comedian, it is funny, sometimes triggering and showing bad attitudes. BUT also educational. The guy got on and off drugs over and over and arrogance is what got him over and over.

He went to a rehab place that worked for him- Thought "I am good now!" checked out early and was back on drugs.

He had two guys help him get off heroin, he felt great for a few months- They told him, he needed to have somone be with him on the road for a YEAR to really be sure he'd stay off. He said "no I am good!" and was drinking 5 days later then back on heroin.

Not saying that I need to hire someone to follow me for a year, thank god I am not addicted to heroin. BUT there is a lesson there. Being vigilant and doing the right stuff has me in a good spot at the moment, what will keep me here is continuing to do that! Likely for a lot longer than I think I need to or forever.

So no slipping into just a little sexual fantasy. It doesn't matter if that is okay for most people. I have done that before for YEARS. What's working is clear mind. I am not a robot, I can be attracted to women, just watch myself, watch for triggers and not going into the fantasy hole.

One last thing: That girl, the last one. Things didn't work out at all. I intentionally did not even post about it. The rest of my life was going well, I am proud of myself! I let the girl be a small thing in life and handled it well. We had a lot of eye contact connecting and physical contact and I have been totally fetish fantasy free, so I view it as some good rewiring and bet it left my brain in improved shape for sure! Plus I handled it wayyy better then the last girl, putting my mind on other things.

It's gotta be about my life, the girls just come in it. If they go it's still my life. There is a dating coach I really don't like, but one thing he talked about I like.

If life were a movie: It'd be YOUR movie. Not the girls movie. So it's like you do stuff, the girl comes she goes then more things happen a new girl comes a long, you get the job whatever.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 18, 2019, 06:20:17 PM
Oh, I know exactly what you mean about saying "it's okay, it's a real woman." Only within the last few months have I started noticing that habit in myself. I justify it by saying it's a real person, and I'm single so it makes sense to check out women. But here's the thing: I was not looking at them on my way to talk to them or ask them out. I was looking at them just to look and get a little shot of dopamine that I couldn't get from PMO anymore. Like I think being attracted to someone is one thing because it draws you closer and makes things happen. But just staring from a distance, for me, isn't any different from PMO. It's been a lot of work to keep my cool when I'm out and about so that I don't just reinforce the same addictive dopamine loop with real women around town. There are contexts where it seems reasonable that I would interact with and maybe date women, so then I think it's maybe okay, so long as I'm actually interacting with them and building relationships. But that kind of thing isn't realistic with most of the women I see during a day, so I'm trying to get that under control.

And I've never used Tinder, but I have used other things like Twitter and Instagram that I've decided I just can't use anymore, no matter how useful they might be. I always end up in trouble when I use them. It might be the case that even if you can think of a hundred legitimate reasons to use Tinder, you just can't because the risk of relapse is too high to justify it. Why are you using it? To legitimately meet someone you could form a long-term relationship with or just (secretly) to see some pretty girls and get a dopamine fix? For me, social media usually just ends up being about getting a dopamine fix, so I've had to cut it out.

This is all a gigantic way of saying that I started paying attention a few months ago to the things that trigger a dopamine fix and not just PMO. I've sort of gotten out of the habit of that, and I think that's part of what's at the root of the triggers and urges that I've been dealing with lately: I've been too casual about watching out for dopamine triggers that aren't PMO, and the cycle is slowly leading me back to thinking about and wanting PMO more lately.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 18, 2019, 06:30:59 PM
Wow, thanks really hit the nail on the head there. I was posting to my journal and your reply popped up just before I posted.

For me even approaching women can be a bit of a dopamine fix. I'll impulsively want to go and talk to girls... now, that is not to say that talking to girls is bad and you guys need to avoid it. But there is a difference between me going and wanting to talk to girls and connect with them or having a plan (It may sound a little machiaellian but I find it is not a great idea to go up and talk to girls without a plan, having a plan makes things a lot easier).

I was experiencing this A LOT today and yesterday, my mind just zeroing in on a bodypart. Something wild is.... When I thought about it... a lot of these girls I could not even imagine dating or having real sex in my bed with. It was just a dopamine/live pmo type of deal.

Anyway this brings me to my next point: I do want to up my social skills and socialize more with women with CONTROL. I think this actually will be helpful when I

A) See the same attractive women and over it seems healthy for my brain. In my dance class there are some super attractive women, my brain now seems them as "the girl from my dance class" rather than a collection of body parts. I still find them attractive but in the real healthy way.

B) Maybe not quite "as" good BUT having a plan when talking to women. Not being just like OMG hot girls! Most of my skills with women (although they could be far far about) came about by specific practice. It is actually oddly more fun to go and talk to girls with a plan to practice something, rather then to try and get the girls. Since it becomes less serious and personal. So IF I am going to keep "cold approaching" girls. I NEED a plan. Non of this just running aound talking to girls wasting my time and harming my self esteem crap.

So anyway: I plan to ummm plan lol. I want to take the time and make a plan for improving my social/ dating life. This job was a big win... (I could still use a little more money but I think I am okay for the time being). So maybe it's time to round out more of my life and get a social life? Sigh.... I may invest in this video product on how to build a social circle. I don't want to spend the money lol but it had good reviews and maybe it's just what I need....

If I succeed, maybe I'll have to edit out some details form my journal for privacy sake lol. If I end up knowing 100s of people maybe one or two of them will know this forum haha.

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 19, 2019, 12:20:32 AM
Went out, some good stuff happened. Met a girl, not sure if I'll see her again.

BUT- I secretly was hopping she was into PMO related fetishes.... It was a pretty strong urge now that I think about it. Honestly, I am not all that attracted to her , she was a cool person but loopy (it was at a party) and I couldn't even consider dating her....

If I am brutally honest, what appealed to me was like

" I SHOULD be having sex, this would boost my confidence I should have sex with her"

And
Her seeming easy/ an impulsive sex opportunity, which really was the addicitve/dopamine part of my mind and my mind was trying to insert her into various fetishes and fantasies......... Still is a lil bit.

She seemed wild and "freaky" so it triggered some of that. Well, glad I posted and am staying self aware. IT really was a little tough for me, while with her. I was like "wait keep the streak up" to keep myself from falling into fantasy.

Still I can feel that urge in the background just a little bit, so I need sleep now but if I see the girl again, I'll take the time to think it out and write it out and get back to reality...
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: WilltoPower on May 19, 2019, 08:20:11 AM
I'm no expert in women and dating, but I do know that your thoughts are not all driven by porn. I'm willing to bet there was something about her that was attractive to you. Our brains produce dopamine when we sense a fertile female so that we seek to reproduce. That's an evolutionary mechanism to keep our species alive. That said, there are two things that I see happening in your post, 1. porn has twisted what sex is which you have already noted, and 2. society has placed too much emphasis on sex. Society says that you need to be having sex all the time. Not only that, but society does not know how to have a mature conversation about sex. To society, sex is all about physical pleasure. Sex is more than that though. Its an emotional experience that is meant to make two people more attached to one another.

My point is that you should take comfort in knowing that its not that you are simply compromised by porn, but that this is a complex issue that I think we as porn addicts should spend more time discussing because we, along with sex addicts, are basically the end game of such perspectives. Recovery is not just about the neuroplasticity of the brain, but it is also a therapeutic, emotional, philosophical, and possibly spiritual process in my humble opinion.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 19, 2019, 08:31:14 AM
Had some more intense urges and PMO fetish stuff popping into my head last night. Much more intense. My rule is to not not concisely engage in it, to not ever make the decision to idk how to describe it, fantasize as an activity.

I still don't feel to great about it........
I still have that girls number, I think I should probably delete it....
I can not even imagine having any kind of relationship with her, I can't even imagine having "regular/ intimate" sex with her or dating her or anything like that. She was a bit older, seemed very slutty wild and crazy. Met her at this party and she talked to me then was all over the place.

She was very triggering, the only thing appealing about her was #1) She was there and friendly. Then #2) Some perverse addicted part of me liked that she seemed so wild and crazy and used that as a way to insert her into PMO fetish fantasies.

Glad I wrote this out as the obvious decision is to delete her number. Sure, I may want to date girls and not be too judgy/ picky but I know I genuinely have no interest in dating this girl.

Now my mind just came back with "she could be practice/ a friend with benefits". But, I've have been on other dates and none of the other girls facilitated such a strong negative side of me.

Anyway I had a good night. I am on an upward trend lately. Still I wonder if there is something I can add to my recovery to decrease these urges and images in my head. Without me being aware of it I was having really intense images and urges pop into my head last night.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 19, 2019, 08:54:38 AM
Fair assessment willtopower. I had posted my other post just as you posted your reply and had not seen it yet.

The girl did seem positive and happy and it was a beautiful environment, an outdoor party. So there was some attraction and healthy sexual feelings, you are right for sure!

BUT-> Some aspects of the girl sort of disqualified her from being a girl I would date. (This party was wilder then i am used to...)
1) She had crazy, gross hippy hair. lol
2) She was old for me
3) She seemed crazy and was a mess
4) She seemed to possibly be on drugs
5) I'd be shocked if she does not take drugs
6) She hinted at having a "dark side" or some kind of mental illness
7) Intuition- this girl was crazy lol.

My brain then goes something "I know these crazy girls are down for anything---> I bet she likes _________ <---- Insert pmo fetishes here. Then had me hoping that she'd bring them up, just as happened last week.

I suppose I will consider things, not be all or nothing. My last sexual encounter, I had to fight PMO urges a bit even as we were in bed together. So sometimes I need a nice streak of sex and rewiring to be able to be sexual and present without my mind trying to slip into fantasy (hopefully that makes sense).


I deleted the number. I was about to write how, I should meet with her but commit to keeping it healty and immediately got a powerful urge. NOPE- I haven't not felt anything like that with like any girl. I think she also said a few things that made it seem she actually may be into some of the PMO fetishes that I cut out of my life.

I was trying to rationalize but no, this was not the same as when I get some pmo thoughts and brush them off when I am with a girl after a long time. This was totally different and there was nothing positive about where this was going. I have learned to TRUST MY GUT. My gut was telling me BAD BAD WRONG BAD STAY AWAY. About this girl, but then the perverse pmo side of me is like "you should hang out with her"

I know... my subconscious only wanted to see this girl to try and engage in PMO related fetishes.
I can trust my healthy instincts at this point "stay aw
ay from this" "This is no good". This might sound a little crazy, but I have a bit of an antennae for girls who are more open to some of the fetishes I got from PMO. One of the shameful things would be messaging with girls on tinder about the fetishes. That bad antennae, after the first few minutes of excitement of a girl being interested in me... is what is appealing about this girl.

Now I certainly could be wrong, she could have not been into that stuff or open to it. But that is what my brain wanted from the girl. Literally I am kind of grossed out by her. Like ewww... So, again I could be wrong (likely am) that she is into whatever my mind came up with but that is where the appeal came from.

This post may be a little hard to understand because me knowing what is going on with myself, is coming from years of trial and error and messing up on reboots. Certain girls I like and am genuinely attracted to. Other girls I am not attracted to but they insight PMO urges in me. I get CRAZY thoughts, that thank god I have not acted on. Like I'll see these trashy girls who I literally would be grossed out to have in bed and at my worst moments think " I bet she'd be willing to _______" (insert fetishes)

The "healthy sexuality" part of me says: EWWW This girl is crazy, has bad hygiene, flaky, flirting with other dudes in front of you and would be a disaster in your life. She was basically a mid 30s hippie/ hypster gone wrong NOT what I am into.

EDIT: I feel much better after deleting the number and the urges subsided. I'll also note I have heard of people getting addicted prostitutes etc. to engage in PMO related fetishes, now THAT is when things are really bad. ( I think we see this in some famous people, sex scandals etc) Anyways, glad to avert that. Still I'll take last night as a positive a girl talked to me for awhile and was into me for a time, not my type but I'll meet another.

Also to reiterate (my brain was trying to rationalize)
My definition of clean is:
NO PMO (No porn or masturbation or any combination or looking at ads or anything as a way to get off
NO engaging in the specific porn induced fetishes in person ever. (I did once with a CRAZY messed up girl)- Huge error
NO fantasizing about the fetishes conciously (When I do they stay alive doesn't matter how long pmo free)

One last thing (lol). Thankfully I cut it out of my life, but in my PMO related fetishes brief times in my "real" life (soon as I did it I would lose ability to have real normal sex, killed my erections- had me feeling horrible after) , discussing with girls trying to lead them into certain things and see if they were into it. All girls who were interested, had severe mental problems. Seriously, like they were all on pills for mental illness, had severe depression and one had tried to commit suicide. All of them as far as I know spent long periods a lone and either certainly did or likely watched porn. I think that should tell me something (maybe that stuff/ the crazy fetishes aren't all that healthy? : ) )......  It was about 4 girls total and mostly very brief or just us talking about it (Thank god it's been years and I am never doing that again).


 I also could not think of a less rewarding thing. Thanks to rebooting, I have had a few healthy sex partners and two real girlfriends and OMG is real sex connecting and enjoying each other so much better. I didn't even enjoy most of the PMO fetish crap. It was just these weird urges from cumming over and over to nonsense in porn. So I had the desire but didn't enjoy the stuff but then would want to do it again. Addiction stinks.

Anyways, so thats all settled. Still I had a very nice night. On the note of instincts.... I can trust mine more ( the good ones, not the pmo ones lol).


I second guess myself too much. The friend who I had the issues with and am taking a break from. He seemed so important, but now that I am not really in touch with him so much (we texted once). I don't really miss him and I feel a lot calmer and happier. I hung out with a new friend last night and had a great time. The dude was just such a nice person and super positive. He was always pointing out girls saying they liked me and hanging out with him just felt damn good. I have him and another friends number, so by the end of the week I will likely have hung out with two new friends! Honestly, that is likely worth even more then dating a new girl....

So that is good and also teaches me... I am not always the problem. When I am upset I tend to go too self analysis-y like "Ohhh I was imagining that problem with me friend it's like nooooo. There were bad vibes there. He was annoyed with me like all the time for no reason, and it made me feel bad. Whats the proof? He would ignore me all the time AND even more.... I don't feel this with other people. I am hanging out with other people and they just seem ummmmm nicer.

Now that doesn't mean I'll never see the dude again, but this was sooo the right decision. Looking forward to hopefully building up a group of cool friends. I taught myself to be fairly social, I talk to people. But never really had a real "group" of friends. It makes me nervous but i think it'll be really cool to do. Have more freinds and do some of that stuff that scares me, introduce people to each other etc.

 
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 19, 2019, 06:19:06 PM
Awesome self-analysis! It sounds like you're thinking clearly and doing what you need to to protect yourself from making mistakes, and that's awesome.

I think you're right about not pursuing things with that woman. It's one thing if you're genuinely interested in her as a person and in building a relationship with her, but it's another thing if your only motivation is weird sex (maybe the wrong phrase, but you know what I mean). Sometimes, when I think about the things I've seen in porn, I just can't imagine ever doing them to/with a real person. Like, I feel like I would have to have a really low opinion of a woman to even try some (or most) of what I saw in porn. It's just not a good reflection of what real relationships are made of.

And part of that is that porn is selfish, just whatever gets us going as intensely as possible. But a relationship can't be like that. Obviously, we have to think about another person's needs and feelings, so it can't just be about whatever our most extreme fantasies are made of. I'm not sure why I'm writing it all out: you've already said it, but I guess it's helpful for me to think through also. It's a tricky thing with PMO, right? How do we know if our interactions with women are healthy and helpful or just another manifestation of our addiction? I think a lot of it might come down to our motivations.

Also, on a kind of unrelated note, I just wanted to say thanks for the way that you leave blank space for particular pmo fetishes. I'm all for being open and frank, but your strategy is a great way to be honest without being triggering. I know I have sometimes had to back out of some journals because I could feel them getting my dopamine going. Long way of saying: thanks for keeping your journal productive but also safe. It makes a difference.

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 19, 2019, 08:38:47 PM
Thanks bro! Really glad you wrote it all out! Funny how that works, reading the way you put it, actually made more sense and was more clear to me then what I wrote myself. Not really much to add but all of that is nail on the head and really helped to clarify things. Really I have no analysis to add to it but everything nail on the head.

Thanks for the feedback on the blank spaces! I almost didn't realize I was doing it, so glad to hear it is helpful so I'll remember to continue doing it moving forward. I feel good about doing it as well, it's nice to not even write about the specific names and acts, I feel like it gives them less power for me mentally as well. Like it's just PMO fetishes, something from PMO my brain is getting away from all in one category not some specific thing to think about or even give names to.

Update: I am happy that I seem to be changing for the better. Today was a longer work day and a little tiring. I felt slightly down after but then had a great talk with my friend on the phone and came to the forum, also I ate some healthy food. And I now feel pretty good. It's very cool that I had this nice chat with my good friend and ate, I feel 80% recharged even though I had a really long work day and now I have off for the next few days : ). Very grateful for that, I got done basically two days worth of work, now have off but I don't feel remotely overwhelmed and just tired, not exhausted.

My voice held up!! I think it's just a cold, I am the #1 cough drop customer at the moment but that fine by me so long as it works and no permanent damage happens.

So glad about the call with my friend and getting the support on this forum, when I first finished work I felt a little lonely and desperate now I feel much better.  I should clean tonight or tomorrow, getting a little un organized plus still have to set some more goals.

Those positive changes I mentioned is just I seem to be a little "hardier" before me being tired or slightly down would lead to me being just really really sad and anxious now it was just something that lasted a few minutes and was gone after a few healthy pleasant activities. Hoping things keep going this way!

I am at 14 days no conscious fetish fantasy today!! Thats big for me.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: WilltoPower on May 19, 2019, 08:40:38 PM
@Quitforeverthenwin
I understand where your'e coming from and, and I hope you can see that I was not suggesting that you should have gone out with her. The fact that you listed dis-qualifiers shows that you put thought into it. I was merely suggesting that we, as porn addicts, dive deeper into the psychology of porn addiction and sex.

Keep up what you're doing. I think the fact that you consider not engaging in that sexual activity is very smart, and if you really only wanted to engage in that activity and really believed that she was someone that would consent to it while she made the list of dis-qualifiers, then you made the right call.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 20, 2019, 10:38:10 AM
So was coughing a bit last night but feel better this am.

I think I ought to plan out the day... so much I want to do but not sure what to start with!

Cleaning
Groceries
But I also want to do fun things and socialize somehow
Want to progress on dating more
Set more goals.

Hmmmm.

More urges still at night, it's been iffy right on that edge of fantasy it pops in head a lot and I stop it. So I need to increase my efforts and do SOMETHING, to invest in decreasing the urges again. Perhaps work through the smart book some more.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on May 20, 2019, 06:43:45 PM
Just read all your posts since a week ago, it seems like you're making alot of progress dealing with fantasies! I'm 100% with you on tinder, I even downloaded the app at one point and started swiping a little bit and got tons of triggers, thank god I realized what I was doing was really stupid and deleted the app and my account. When I hear about my friends' hookups over the weekend it makes me feel like I missing out a ton, but I try to remind myself to always do what's best for me; just because my friends benefit from hooking up with other women (which I'm not 100% sure is true tbh) doesn't mean that I will get the same enjoyment out of it.

I also completely agree on the fetishes, I think if I were to act out my sick fetishes it would not be enjoyable. At all. Just goes to show the power of our minds, but if we are able to harness that power towards something positive for ourselves and others long-term I think we can look back at our fetishes one day and laugh about how ridiculous it was to be sucked in to them. Atleast that's what I hope.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 20, 2019, 11:57:14 PM
Thanks for the perspective! Earlier today I had thought of going back on that and using tinder with "rules" to allay the issues. Glad to hear your perspective on that and it shows me I should definitely think really really hard about introducing it in my life... Plus good point on not having to follow the crowd, different strokes for different folks.

Yeah big progress on the fantasizing the thing is just to keep it going. Still need to set more goals, but 100% I am doing it tomorrow. In the morning! Tomorrow morning, I'll do a hypnosis recording, then spend 30 min thinking of new goals to set. That's a commitment.


My day: Was not too productive in the morning. Had a so-so workout. But I did clean up a good bit which is really nice. I went to a meetup and no one but me and two girls showed up lol. The girls were not too friendly to me one left. I had tried making friends with them and getting numbers but it didn't pan out.

I went to my dance class and had a decent time but wasn't feeling great. Something interesting  I was already planning my journal entry lol. To write how I was not feeling as well etc. But then I thought "wait, I am still in this class maybe my entry can be I had a great time in class and ended the day well!". The class was pretty good in terms of a workout and it was nice to be around friendly women. I had more energy and then worked out more to make up for earlier in the day. Still was feeling a lil off. But here is where I am really happy with what I did.....

I felt down and did not want to go home... so I decided to watch basketball in a bar, great idea! Putting self out there is always good. I started a conversation with the guy sitting next to me, just being friendly. He ended up being such a nice positive open guy. We talked for like an hour and a half a bunch of people knew him and came and said hi, so I talked with another regular at the bar who was a cool guy too. I put myself out there and invited the original guy to hang out sometime and he was down. Really glad, the guy was soo nice. I would have hung out with him just based on him being a positive cool person, but he also seems pretty connected socially, he told me about all these cool bars and parties etc. So, I don't want to get too high or low but that was cool to make a possible cool friend, which is nice in it's own right. Plus ( I don't want to "use" people) but if he also helps me meet more people that is a nice bonus.

I ended up buying that building a social circle product, I think it was really worth it. Some stuff in there seems like common sense, but I built up my social confidence by sort of strong arming it, going out to talk to people. So my social intelligence and stuff could use work and I think this product helped a lot.

For example I met Cool guy A (the guy I spoke to at length) and his friend Cool guy B came over and chatted with us a bit and we got a long. In the past, I'd like awkwardly/directly ask for both of there numbers, which is weird. Like cool guy B and I were cordial, but you don't just like ask for someones number after friendly small talk.

Instead I more naturally invited cool guy A to something then kind of just chilled and let us exchange numbers naturally. Then was just friendly with cool guy B and said his name so he knows I actually really noticed him. So I learned that from the product I bought and it makes sense. I can hang out with the person I talked to at length and if I want to befriend cool guy B, let it happen naturally. He'll be around most likely if Cool guy A and I hang out then after seeing him a few times like that we can NATURALLY become friends as well, rather then trying to awkwardly force it and get like everyone's numbers I am introduced to.

Maybe a little bit weird sounding to think this much and obvious to some, but I am glad to learn this stuff. It's a weakness of mine, I learned to make conversation and a good impression but hadn't yet managed to iron out the details of making friends, I'd be overly aggressive and to the point in getting people's info/making plans. So I am really happy with this progress and I think it'll help me a lot.

Plus goes to show putting self out there is nice. I "wasted" time today going to an empty meetup and did not enjoy the reactions I got BUT I conciously was not hard on myself... I thought "I am no fortune teller, I went there to take action to hopefully meet people I could not have predicted it'd be bad.... AND I don't want to be too hard on myself because if I am, I'll be upset and that will make it HIGHER RISK to try new things". Because, if I try something and it does not work and I beat myself up and feel miserable the stakes are high, I can't really try new things because I'll be devastated if it does not work out...  But if I can try new things, have it not work out and just be like a little annoyed, I know I can handle it, so it's easier to go for it more often, thus giving things more chances to work out.

Then, I went out to improve my mood. Took the chance to talk to the guy next to me, then took the chance to aim to turn him into a friend I'll hang out with and so far seems like it worked out decently.

Also--> Being open and cool to everyone is such a good policy. When I started talking to this dude, I had ZERO clue he had anything going on for him or any friends. He was alone at the bar. I just thought I'd talk to him and be friendly and boost both of our nights. Turns out he knows everyone and every cool place in town. Not saying I shouldn't still value him as a person if he didn't have that. But it's still cool and I am actually much happier to get connections/ opportunities this way, organically then if I had idk like tried to befriend this guy because I knew he could connect me to things, you know?

My social skills still need some ironing out (especially some bad habits popped up with girls) so I may start journaling for myself privately as well, just what happened in the day. I tend to learn a lot and be better socially when I do that and learn very quickly since I go over my day and remember things that I had previously forgotten. It works really well and used to help me in old jobs of mine too.

Have a good night everyone! So glad to see you back Pichael definitely was also an extra boost for me seeing your back and doing well!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 21, 2019, 02:04:32 AM
Woke up in middle of night with some pretty strong urges. Feeling like I NEED SEX NOW. Which is obviously very irrational and is purely an urge thought that leads to other bad places. I went to rest room, brushed teeth to freshen up and have been reading a bit. Once I got back in bed I felt I wanted to fantasize but here I am posting instead to break up the thought pattern (good). I did not take the time to sit down and write/ do some smart stuff.

Now I am COMMITTING. It's nice I had an easy week, now I need to do a bit more. So that's what I'll do.

Edit: Went to success stories and read one and watched this Gabe Deem video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4yx4ouxGbQ

Been so long since I watched this stuff/ researched and it gave me good perspective. Remember what is happening also a reminder that this road is a long one. Good I am building up a social circle and not only focused on dating.... it'll likely be awhile before I am having a really robust sex life! I forgot about flatlines after orgasms etc.

It got me thinking
1) It could be nice to find a rewire partner/ cuddle buddy. Since that was necessary for me to regain erections in past. (So perhaps I can come up with a plan on this front)
2) Perhaps I can continue putting more into other areas of my life. Since though I don't want to accept it, it could be awhile before a robust sex life is part of my life. Takes a looonngggg time to be able to have sex often it seems (for many people at least). I ought to not think about it, it takes as long as it takes. Anyway, but perhaps I can get more work stuff going, get a side hustle going, things to feel good about. Just keeping to build up my life.
3) Okay, it may be something that REALLY needs to be controlled, but I am considering a tiny bit of online dating (or maybe I should find something else). Since I would like some more dating experience in a lower risk environment. Maybe find a more conservative platform even? Even something for religous girls so I could rewire? That may be a good idea.... Try and go on dates with religous girls develop companionship/ rewire. I actually met a girl this way years ago, she was open to casual dating just not having sex before marriage. Honestly if I can find a girl like that for awhile, casually dating sex off the table, rewiring that could be ideal.

Aside from that: as mentioned, rededicate! It is so critical I keep moving forward, I am still on track but let's get even more on track. Like I was a few days ago with less of these thougths popping into my head, get that morning wood again etc. And have those fetishes lose their appeal  more and more.

Edit: I keep thinking to myself... it's 7:00pm tinder would be busy I should quickly make an account and maybe get a date tonight!!!! Then my mind starts going to---> I don't have the right photos, I should just go on there with whatever and try and get a girl interested in PMO fetishes. So obviously this is NOT a healthy impulse. GRRRR I had a plan this evening that was a really good idea but it got cancelled, kind of bummed out. What to do What to do... Really not sure. Feeling desperate and lonely .
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 21, 2019, 06:05:04 PM
So, I don't feel as well as I did last week BUT I want to make sure I remember how good I felt. That week or so was enough to show me, at least I am for sure not brain damaged or anything like that. I can be calmer and happier.

Two days ago I did not do my hypnosis recording and yestarday I could not focus during it. Not sure how much that contributed since yesterday was a more down day for sure. I have work again coming up tomorrow, perhaps that'll be a nice boost for me. I also should not forget that I am doing a good amount of the right things and sure I am in in a dip, feeling sadder again some of that anxiety in the chest, but it stinks but it is not as bad as it was last time.

I texted two of my new friends, no answers yet. Really made me anxious, but someone else texted me there number, an aquaintance from the building, they are leaving my city soon BUT, shouldn't I still be grateful for that?

A little frustrated with my anxious feelings, worrying about people getting back to me, whether they will etc. Building up the social circle is good but also I think having a path/purpose may be really good for me too. I was watching this video one of these dating guru types, some of what he said seemed relevant. Saying when you have a purpose and a path you don't care so much if people respond to you etc. since you are on your path. That may be good for me getting more and more purposeful and goal driven, making things happen....

Also, maybe a little more approaching women could be good? I kind of stopped that and although I want other ways to meet women, my ummm idk leads of women has really dried up lol.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 21, 2019, 06:19:56 PM
Sorry you're a little down: it's got me today too. But I do like the idea of remembering how good you felt last week. I could definitely do that more. I could also afford to COMMIT more (I like the all caps). I'm trying to figure out the difference between a relaxing day and a wasted day, and I think some commitment would help, like even a little schedule to help me know that I'm at least making progress and not just waiting for time to pass.

Glad you're making progress, though, and thinking clearly through the triggers/urges. Just being able to step back and realize what is going on is huge. Urges have always won out when I failed to step back and realize what was happening, so keep it up!

And you're welcome! The blank spaces are great, and I think it's cool that they have a similar effect for you too as you write them.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on May 21, 2019, 08:47:46 PM
That's some really good insight, I often find that I am good at having a purpose and path at some things (like my music, working out, eating healthy) and not so much at others (connecting with people). I'm trying to find a better way to integrate friends (and eventually a relationship) into my purpose and path, as good relationships can help with all other facets of life. At the same time though, you don't necessarily need anyone to be awesome and accomplish amazing things, so if you are able to set goals on your own and achieve them, I think the feeling of neediness gets less...while the desire for others may still be there it can be easier to channel towards positive actions since you can feel like you can take risks and the worse that happens is you'll just be your normal, awesome self again rather than feeling like you are returning to your sad, miserable life.

Sorry if this is just random thinking lol, you're doing great dealing with unpleasant feelings and finding solutions for them! After everything I just said, I am still in the process of figuring things out (and always may be) but part of life is just having goals and beliefs only to change them and go in a new direction later.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 22, 2019, 08:08:49 PM
Thanks for the support guys! Not in the mood to write too much, so I may be a bit brief.

But both of you nails on the head. Scheduling is huge (did some today) and I think I really do need more of a purpose.

Still on the path, though it is rough. Worked through smart manual today for 30 min. First time in awhile. My emotions were not there with me, but I suppose repetition will fix that. Went for a run, felt better during it.

Had a girl flake, not happy but handled it fairly well. I am slightly annoyed with myself because I feel like I could see it coming. I just got triggered for a second.

Anyways, the good is I had a very productive day. Not sure what the rest of the evening holds......

Also: Being on a path is SOOO key! Need that and higher standards of women I go for. If I felt I had options many of the women I pursue I would not even consider
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 22, 2019, 11:13:41 PM
Feeling a bit better. Some urges popping up here and there. .
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 23, 2019, 02:04:53 AM
Well, I had a sort of slip. Bummer. I had really strong urges, fell into fantasy for a minute then went back to it. Almost posted here but did not, sort of wish I did now.

The slip could have been worse: I went on an escort website and looked at the adds there for about 10 minutes and saw about 5 seconds of a clip of one of them other then that it was images. Did not watch videos other then that or go on any porn websites. No masturbation. I am a little bummed out like fuck man you want your dick to work! That moves away from that goal.... But, again being upset won't help anything. It could have been way way worse, and if there is any upside, it is that I did not enjoy any of it all that much. I fantasized and did not enjoy it as much, then I went and looked at images and did not enjoy it as much either.

The one negative is.... honestly the urge was very very powerful and the slip did provide relief. Hmmmm, thats sort of an issue.

Well, I guess I can look at it like this: It is all a process of improvement. I got as far as I could get on that current streak, now I am starting a new one (sort of). I think perhaps I will categorize this mentally maybe not as a streak ended, as I looked at some images and fantasized but did not watch PMO videos nor tough my penis at all. I think that may be a better way to categorize it. I noticed mentally having the desire to MO when I thought of it as a slip. But really it is not the same thing at all, MOing would REALLY break my streak and be devastating. So I'll view this as a moderate mis step then rather then a lapse.

On to tomorrow then! Sill, gotta stay vigilant as I still feel the urge to MO right now. But let's remember why I am here.... I haven't lost everything my dick probably still works right now and these fetishes and PMO would lead me down the drain!

Also, I suppose I'll make some sort of adjustment to my program..... This certainly did not happen for my lack of trying...... I put in more into today then I have in sometime. Grrr. Too much thinking. At the end of the day, if there was a gun to my head I would not have done that. Really, their is one and only one solution. I have got to toughen back up and be tougher next time.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 23, 2019, 02:11:16 AM
One other thing. I think I need to be more optimistic and control my mind more. Even night I was waking up at 2:30 am even writing that is already putting me into "wimp mode". Like it's just like "waaahhhh I wake up with incredibly strong urges already in fantasy not even knowing what is going on."

I ought to be more proactive and positive. "Well, that happened for a few nights but fuck it, I DOUBT it'll happen tonight and if it does, I will immediately jump out of bed and get out of my room and it'll be gone in a second".

See that right there is the solution (I want to put was, but I can not change the past). Like- Okay, I know the urges have been waking me up in the middle of the night. I could handle that shit in like 5 minutes. Have the plan as soon as they wake me up. IMMEDIATELY get out of bed and go for a walk for just 5 min and that'd be enough to handle it. It's almost like being in a trance, but it's easy enough to break IMO. So, now I have a plan. Next time that happens. IMMEDIATELY out of bed.

Good thing I did not PMO/MO. Really the problem came down to arrogance. I had weak/ minimal urges for sometime so I forgot how to handle them..... get my self out of bed (like there is a damn rattlesnack in my bed!) and do something else. It seems hard but once out of bed it really isn't.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on May 23, 2019, 07:33:24 AM
Nice job figuring out ways to deal with urges. Yeah I've also had times where I've slipped up and looked at women online, wether it be tinder, google images, youtube. etc. One strategy I like to use (when I get the urge to do something questionable) is think of my ideal self- the person I hope to be one day, and ask "what would this guy do; right now, in this situation?" It kind of removes the self from the emotional pull of it all and makes you think and just answer a question with more logic. I got this strategy from Marcus Aurelius' philosophy of stoicism, which is based on always doing what's right regardless of thoughts and feelings, bc if you do that your thoughts and feelings will improve on there on (as we all know though, it is not a direct path and it takes longer than we hope). Sending good vibes!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Lero on May 23, 2019, 07:41:52 AM
Nice job figuring out ways to deal with urges. Yeah I've also had times where I've slipped up and looked at women online, wether it be tinder, google images, youtube. etc. One strategy I like to use (when I get the urge to do something questionable) is think of my ideal self- the person I hope to be one day, and ask "what would this guy do; right now, in this situation?" It kind of removes the self from the emotional pull of it all and makes you think and just answer a question with more logic. I got this strategy from Marcus Aurelius' philosophy of stoicism, which is based on always doing what's right regardless of thoughts and feelings, bc if you do that your thoughts and feelings will improve on there on (as we all know though, it is not a direct path and it takes longer than we hope). Sending good vibes!

This came exactly at the right moment. I just relapsed because I failed to deal with the urges. This has been a problem for me for the last two weeks. But you know what's ironic? I actually know what to do but for some reason, I did nothing. I sat in the chair like a lazy motherfucker. I had things to do, I could've done them, but instead I let myself slip to downloading a movie. I am trying not to repeat the same mistakes again. That's the idea. Remove all the ways you mistake until you don't mistake at all. But you have to pay attention.

I like the idea of thinking about the ideal self. "What would this guy do?" My ideal self would not download the movie. But I will get there, eventually. Next time I won't just sit in front of the computer and let the urges dominate me. I have to think about something to do.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 23, 2019, 09:28:07 AM
Thanks Pichael! That is a really good tip. Also what a coincidence, I was interested in reading some stocicism and literally last night bought Letter's from a stoic by senecca! I also saw some of marcus arelius' books on the shelf's, so I will check out some of his books as well for sure.

I felt just a little ashamed, but glad to have the support and see that stuff like this is not necessarily the end of the world. Now, I realize I was making errors and have to make some adjustments to my program, positive adjustments really.

The problem boils down to one main thing: I put 100% effort into the "helpful things", so much effort that it was to the detriment of the NECESSARY things.


So, I had made several commitments on here to go two weeks without fantasizing about the fetish's I didn't make it. SO, I wrote the goal down privately and read it everyday, it was helpful BUT I also made my goal, no thinking of sex at all while in bed and really I was trying to eliminate every sexual thought in my head and felt like I was almost lapsing if I thought sexually at all.

I would have thoughts of a real girl and things we talked about pop into my head and I was treating it like was the devil pushing it out of my head.

Now we do know, this is can be a slippery slope, but I seem to have confused myself: The thing to do was to be cautious and not over do it. Rather then trying to make myself completely A-Sexual. This worked for like 9 days but after that I went nuts. The problem is for me, is I had looking at images online, fetishes and thinking about a real women in the same category THEY ARE NOT. Too much thinking about real women could be a trigger but I can have some sexual thoughts.

Not 100% how to describe but I guess it's like the "fuck it" phenomenon. We all know if we slip, so MO once, it's easy to say "fuck it" and slip again.  I put "any thought of a woman" almost in the slip category so me getting any sexual thoughts had me feel like I was already losing it. So basically I over extended putting huge effort into something and neglecting.

2) Handling REAL urges and having a plan. Simple, I already know what to do. PMO FETISH, MO or PMO urges = distract self. Get out of bed, work on a skill briefly etc. That is how to defeat an urge.

So rather then using up all my mental energy trying to have 0 sexual thoughts, keep my eyes on the prize... it's okay for me to think about women JUST be careful about it and keep it in moderation. Put that energy into the really important shit eliminating what I consider actual ummm loses of PMO sobriety.
PMO
Fetish fantasy
Acting on PMO fetish's
And fantasy stinks but is less bad then the rest.

ALSO: On point two, I have been very focused on motivation. I wrote down things to motivate myself, but lately had been neglecting the MOST IMPORTANT processes, the nuts and bolts... I was staying motivated, living a healthy lifestyle, wrote in the smart book to aid myself, but could have been reviewing, rather then just my motivations.... what to actual do at the most basic to stay clean: Having a plan of action/ ideas of what to do, when urges occur. (Since I seem to have forgotten).

Lastly, I was treating myself like I had no control over myself if that makes sense. Like, I used tinder for a long time without a problem, in one particular way..... i had tinder gold, where it shows you who swiped on you. I simply NEVER would look at pictures, just see who swiped on me very briefly and that was that. Not to say tinder isn't a risk but idk basically my general point is.... I put so much effort into avoiding all RISKS that I think I subconciously forgot that I had control of myself, so when I had the urges I forgotten how to have self control... make sense? On top of that I simply wasted a ton of energy and can simplify.

Cliffs: Do the crucial: No PMO, no MO, no fetish fantasy, no fetish with partners (rarely comes up). The rest be a little more laissez faire, but just be aware nothing leads to too strong urges.



Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 23, 2019, 05:32:49 PM
Sorry about the slip, but way to keep it from being as bad as it could have been. Keep at it (not that you need me to say it): I would hardly call this a step backwards.

Man, though, your last post raises some tough issues that I've been thinking about on and off for a while. Like, for one, the goal of recovery definitely can't be to become asexual, but it can feel like that sometimes. I don't have much to say that's productive, but I feel that. For such a long time every sexual thought that I've had has basically led me to unhealthy behavior, so what even is a healthy sexual thought? What is healthy sexuality when you're one your own? If you figure that out, let me know. But I know just trying to shut it all down is definitely not a road to success.

I also think a lot about the balance between external controls and internal ones. We go to a lot of trouble sometimes to block our browsers and delete apps and everything else to take away our access to porn. But then is that really progress because we're getting better or just because we don't have access to P? Sometimes, I've found myself thinking that I shouldn't have any blockers or anything so that I learn how to deal with things on my own instead of relying on filters and stuff. But I remember hearing someone say once that we do things like lock our doors and buy security systems for our houses to protect ourselves from physical threats, so why not install filters on our browsers to keep clear of addictive threats? They can't replace our own efforts at recovery, but I do know they help. It seems like the first step to a period of constant relapses is acting like I don't need the filters anymore.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 24, 2019, 12:31:09 AM
Quickly going to acknowledge so NUTTY thoughts I was having just now. Going to shut that stuff down. The little slip caused a bit of a chaser effect.

I do appreciate you saying keep at it! Always helpful and thanks! I was feeling a bit bad and like I took a step back. Time to get back on it.

I really appreciate your thoughts, because whenever you flesh something out like this it gets me thinking and aids me in reflecting on my own recovery. This is one issue that has a simple answer for me....

OF course we should use the filters... I wish I could figure out how to get them on my phone.... At the end of the day, if it works it works. Speaking of internal controls... if our mind is on board to do something, quit pmo or whatever, wouldn't it make sense for our mind to seek out and use every possible resource available to it? If filters work, I can not think of any practical reason to not use them, any good rationalization.

It reminds me of this: I had a friend who got really fat. He got all excited about losing weight and said he was going to do it. I went to his house and he had junk food in all of the cabinets.... We were both all excited and planned on working out together and eating healthy and stuff (I was going to do this to support him and it's good to do anyway). I am like "yeah bro awesome let's throw out all of this junk food!". He said "No, I want to keep it here... what if my little brother comes here and wants to eat it... I want to feel in control like I can have the junk food here and not like I have to throw it out and can't control it".

I said okay, but silently sighed to myself, I knew 100% that he was going to eat that junk food. A year later, he is just as fat. ( I may sound a little harsh, but this is the guy who I stopped talking to since he was ignoring me all the time and I had gone on the diet with HIM just to support him and he repaid me by ignoring me for months and  being irritable to me , when I guess he fell off the wagon).

Anyway, point being. It's simpler with junk food. I don't eat it so keep that shit out of the house! I haven't had junk food, even a little in many months, my father visited and left some cookies here, I was tempted to eat them one day.... so i threw them out.

Bottom line: Practical. Whatever works to cut out pmo works. No reason to make extra challenges. Because if the internal is right, we want it gone. Let's use every tool there is.  Just the way I see it.

In my situation, thinking about sex too much can be bad. But for now, thinking about REAL woman as my motivation, normally is bad but is keeping me from another slip (which would be real bad) so I'll  think about real women for now. Not like fantasy, thinking about what I want. How nice it'll be have working penis, connections with women, confidence all that.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 24, 2019, 06:26:15 PM
Good to acknowledge the thoughts! Shut it on down!

Always glad to hear my rambling is helpful, lol. I like the point about your friend who is still fat. I know in the past I've tried to come back from a relapse and put up blockers and stuff but then I'd spend a lot of time thinking about the kinds of things I'd search for next, like "If I ever lapsed again, not that I would, but if I did, I'd totally search for _____." Total garbage. Telling myself I won't relapse while planning my next binge. The things we tell ourselves when we're out of control. I'm happy to say that I don't have a plan for my next relapse: I really actually don't want to have one now.

And you're spot-on with thinking too much about sex. It has gotten me so many times, just a thought here or there about what it would be like to have sex in a stable, healthy relationship, but then it leads to other thoughts that make my brain feel good and the next thing I know I'm in trouble. It's tough, but it's good to be aware of. When I do think about relationships, I try to make sure I'm not fantasizing about sex, but it still happens, just not as much.

Also (because I haven't written enough yet), just a couple thoughts about blockers for the phone. First, I set up the parental controls on mine so that I only have access to specific whitelisted websites that I use regularly. That's helpful because then there aren't any "gaps" that I can find my through: everything is blocked. That's been helpful for me, especially since I set my password to be something that I really want that PMO seems to be in the way of: now whenever I feel like turning off the controls, I have to think through losing the thing that is my password.

I've also had a lot of success with OpenDNS. It's a free thing that you can set up either on your router or on your devices, and I think it has been the most helpful filter for me. It just shuts it all down: there are various settings for different content that you want blocked and then it just makes it so that you can't load any of those sites. Not a solution for when you're not home, but I only have trouble at home anyway. (We might have already talked about this now that I've written out...if so, what a lucky repeat)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 24, 2019, 11:41:41 PM
Sorry guys: I just really did lapse. Unequivocally my day count is at 0.

Warning: You are going to see some of my real demons in the description below, I left out triggering words I believe, but it's gonna show that legit messed up addiction side of me.

I did a host of nonsense. Ending with me going back on an escort website website and calling one to see if she would engage in pmo fetishes and tentatively set an appointment. Then I was like holy fuck! This is way way worse. So I told her sorry, it's a no go. Then I was in bed feeling strong urges. I thought to myself "I can cum from humping my pillow". I again, will be real. I thought to myself: I will just like do that rub myself against the pillow to cum and then in my journal I can say I had a wet dream and euphemistically be like "oh yeah I think I was rubbing against my pillow at night when I was half asleep". Basically lie to act like it was not a real slip. After finishing, I immediately just masturbated the normal way, my penis was totally flaced and I got like no pleasure out of it but somehow came.

This all started with 1) Going on escort website- and let me be real- I specifically looked for escorts who offered fetishes and stuff. Really that was as porn as anything . I bullshited myself and the journal. It was not like looking at youtube vids, that for me is like the worst porn. Since I fantasize about contacting them and actually have in the past.

Then, the next day I downloaded tinder. Was on it totally compulsively for like a few hours. Even with not swiping pictures, I kept using boosts and was compulsively checking it, which left me with really strong urges to go back on escort websites. I managed to get a very unnattractive girl's number and was messaging her trying to lead her into being into pmo fetishes, she was not. But in my mind she was.

She came over. It was miscommunication she wanted a relationship (by coming straight to my place at 11 on a friday lol) and I wanted a hookup. She expressed disappointment and told me she is broke and could barely afford the uber over. (Sad girl really). We chatted a bit and I got her an uber back home. Then soon after I ummmm, kept looking at my phone and thinking "I should contact escort" that happend maybe three times then I did and you all know the rest.

So that's it. I officially have lapsed. Let me be honest too, I lapsed twice. My stuff about tinder being maybe okay was nonsese lol. (I should have noticed in seeing EVERYONE agreeing it's good to STAY AWAY). I feel bad to let you guys down and hope i didn't discourage anyone.

I don't feel hopeless at all. It is what it is. Perhaps this will be the last time in my life that this ever happens.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: LeanAndBop on May 25, 2019, 02:44:59 AM
Hey Quit
Sorry this happened. Hope you are OK. Really wasn't shocked or appalled at anything I read. I can relate to the desperation. At least you are sharing it, this is surely positive.
Wishing you all the best
Bop
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 25, 2019, 08:05:49 AM
Well the relapse continued,

Before I go into the craziness: Thanks so much leanandbop! That means a ton. I feel like when I write the really crazy shit people are going to read it and be like "oh fuck this guy is way more crazy and messed up then I thought... I don't want to read this shit anymore!". Also thanks for keeping up posting on your journal when you had that rough patch it's really a big part of the inspiration for me to continue posting



More craziness:

 I masturbated several times this am. With not much resistance. Urge: Then did it. Wrote a long post analyzing a lot of things, I wrote about how maybe I shouldn't try and date so many girls and should just focus on a relationship and then put all that energy into business, then I thought "Hey! Maybe if I succeed in business and am not going to date a bunch of girls, I could just make money and pay escorts all the time!" Then I masturbated on that thought.  Well, if I can have one positive.... In all the years I have been fighting this I have never fully quit. I have looked at porn, I have masturbated. I have even texted or called escorts as some strange compulsion. But at least I have not masturbated while looking at porn since 2015.

Anyways- Lessons:
Over analysis maybe not helpful?
Start meditating again! EVERYDAY- Feeling like it or convenience be damned. I MUST DO THIS to be aware enough to handle my urges. Simple as that.
Have a mental program- meditating plus probably visualizing and/or hypnosis EVERYDAY. None of this "I make things to hard, I should ease off"---> That is how my fat friend thinks and I think I absorbed some of his thinking. What works for me is just do the work. Part of the sobriety is meditating each day simple as that.


Edit: Midday now- At least any thought that doing this stuff was okay has been proven wrong. Feel so drained like moving is tough.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 25, 2019, 01:10:10 PM
Was thinking of K-dot's journal.... as inspiration. He mentioned he had several 100+ day streaks 60+ day streaks etc. and now he is where I want to be.... so get back to it. Maybe I should write here a bit less though.... Not stop, but do less.

I think, I was thinking about it too much. For sure honestly. Better to mostly live as if it does not exist...
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 25, 2019, 05:10:00 PM
Quit! Sorry to hear about it. I don't think you're any more crazy or messed up than any of the rest of us: we're all dealing with addiction, and we all know that it just takes over sometimes. Whenever I lapse, it's like a different part of me switches on, and I'm just looking up and doing all kinds of things that "real" me wouldn't do, no resistance, no trying to stop myself, just a flood of garbage, and I end up on the other side wondering how it happened. Really sorry all this happened, sorry that it escalated to include other people too. But I'm glad you're still in it and that you have a plan for moving forward.

Real talk, though: you've already said it, but you saw this coming from a mile way. It didn't have to happen, but it did get to the point where the addiction took over. I usually see my lapses coming from a mile away, too. I spend some time "flirting" with non-PMO stuff until it just takes over and that's it. I'm toast. This might be a weird thing to say, but it might be helpful to acknowledge that you *like* PMO. For me, I thought for a long time that I was trying to train myself not to like it, so every time I had a fun (sexual) thought or a feeling of arousal, I was like, "oh, guess I still like it...guess I'll go find some porn." But who wouldn't like it? It's a whole thing our brains have evolved to perpetuate the species: we're supposed to like it! But that "like" is out of control. So, for me lately, I've been focusing less on trying to stop "liking" PMO and more on trying to be aware of when I'm at risk of being taken over by that like and what I can do to redirect. It has made me far more careful about little pleasure triggers, women on TV or around town, etc., because I still have control then. Those feelings of sexual pleasure have started to become a warning system instead of a guilty pleasure.

I'm still working at it, and I'm far from perfect. Thinking like this has helped me, though, to be more in tune with what is going on in my mind and body. If I start to feel those sexual (addictive) feelings, I recognize that I'm in trouble when I can still do something about it. If I spend too much time with those "harmless" pleasures, it doesn't take long before they take over. So I just have to ask myself, do I want a life without PMO more, or do I want to keep these "harmless" pleasures more? I probably can't have both.

So take it for what it's worth. We've all been in the weirdness of addiction, so it's going to take more than a bad relapse to chase us away, man. What's more, I know you're thoughtful and reflective enough not to let this lapse go to waste. You'll learn from it and come back even stronger than before! Tomorrow is a fresh, new day!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 26, 2019, 05:11:54 PM
Thanks man! Feel a lot better reading that, wish I had read it before!

I continued the lapse today, more of the same.

A few things:
1) I felt un worthy to post in other people's journals and offer support. But I figured hell, when things were good I did that and it seemed to be helpful, so going to make myself do it again.
2) My current lapses, from yesterday and today: I would be out and about, feeling good. Then as I started heading home.... I would get this anticipation and plan to do it once I got inside. It's a recurrent fantasy, now for the last two days.
Simple: I need a game plan to handle that. I need to make it in advance.
3) It happened before the lapse, but I started forgetting my motivations for quitting and am still kind of there to be honest. I guess when lapsing the drives and desires for other things leaves and the mind is so irrational. Thinking it's fine but in reality I am not getting shit done and acting crazy as hell.
GRRRR.

4) I masturbated again before even posting... At least I forced myself away from CRAZY fucking pmo fetishes and made myself imagine a sweet looking cute girl and quite "conventional" sex with connection.

Honestly, felt pretty good about that and a little confidence boost. What a different mental state that was.... (My pmo fetishes are a bit depraved).

Okay, for the very least... My hierarchy of avoidance.
1) Contacting escorts
2) Escort website
3) Tinder
4) Masturbation with fetish fantasy
5) Fetish fantasy
6) Masturbation with "vanilla" fantasy.

I suppose I will analyze a bit.... Me contacting escorts as a part of my lapses came about (INSANELY) when I was aiming to quit PMO and was thinking I MUST not masturbate at all costs I was very tirggered and thought "I'll see an escort instead!" (1000% worse). Of course the contacting etc. was so much worse and led to me masturbating several times afterward...............

So that is what happened again on this lapse the first time (no mo) Second time (with mo) and third time : (. with mo. I want so bad to avoid masturbation at all costs, then the fucking crazy addicted part of the mind finds another outlet, but one that is far far worse. So, it is better to masturbate then it is to fucking contact escorts like a psycho path. So, will keep that in mind moving forward.

Now maybe I am going back on some of what I have said in the past but....... maybe it is possible for me to masturbate in a healthy(ish) way? The start of the lapse came with me thinking "am I really never going to masturbate again in my life?

Thinking:
Fetishes: Yes, as bluehero said these may provide "pleasure" but if I could snap my fingers (even aside from pmo) and have them gone, would I? HELL YES.
PORN: HELL YES
Contacting escorts/ going on website: FUCKING HELLLLL YES.

Masturbation to vanilla thoughts: If I could do it healthily I'd be fine with having it as a part of my life.

Maybe rationalizations just after lapsing are not relevant. (After lapse 1 I thought tinder was A - Okay! And it was a disaster). But idk.... sighhh... will seee. For now like the next day or two, rather then fetish stuff I am going to aim to make myself think vanilla when I masturbate..... I am going to give myself a few days before I cut masturbation back out (maybe even one day). Rather then doing this really really bad crazy shit.

Also guys: I am totally open to feedback on what I just wrote on masturbating? Is this just addict rationalization bullshit? Let me know. I had written about stopping masturbation etc. before and know others cut it out tooo....
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 26, 2019, 06:48:10 PM
First of all, there's no worthiness requirement for posting in my journal. I know that feeling of not feeling worthy, but I'm not here because I want to talk to guys who don't have any trouble with PMO. I'm here to talk to guys who are trying to beat it, even if they slip up from time to time.

I also really know the feeling of going on a walk to get away from urges and then planning a binge on the way back home. Not really sure what to do about it since those sorts of things always got me in the past. My most recent pattern has been to go about a month without PMO and then to slip into a day or two binge that just had to run its course before I could get back into control. Once it gets going, it seems impossible to stop, so I've just been focusing on catching myself earlier. It's way easier to back off when I spend a little too long looking at a girl at school than when I'm on my computer with porn. Keep an eye out for those early triggers, and do what you need to do.

Which brings me to your question about masturbation. It's a tough one, probably, but I'll throw my two cents in, and you can take wherever you want. I remember reading somewhere that every porn problem is really a masturbation problem, and the problem with PMO is that all three components reinforce each other. P and M are the behaviors, but O is the reward that keeps us coming back for more. So, for me anyway, every time I've gone to porn in the last couple years, it has started with an urge for MO, so just quitting P would mean only dealing with part of a larger addictive cycle that includes MO. For me, they're all the same thing, and they're all poor substitutes for the kind of solid romantic/sexual relationship I really want. I guess MO works for some people, but I can't separate PMO from MO, and I think MO would always pull me back to porn eventually.

Also, I hear you when you say the lapse started when you were thinking about never masturbating again. That can be a scary thought. PMO has been, weird as it is to say, comforting to me for a long number of years. Whenever things got too intense for me to deal with, I could escape in PMO. Right, it's fun, freeing, exciting. But it doesn't fix anything (you know that). Because there's a (hopefully shrinking) part of me that genuinely likes porn and masturbation, it can be really hard to think about giving it up forever. I also read once somewhere that PMO triggers the same hormones that make us feel good in relationships, the hormones that make us love girlfriends and make mothers love babies. PMO messes with some heavy stuff in our brains, and we form a kind of attachment that feels like love on some level. So of course it seems impossible to live life without it: I remember wondering how in the world I was going to continue living a normal life after breaking up with someone I really loved (and that breakup pushed me into a long series of PMO binges, actually). Sometimes, I start to worry about how I'll live life without PMO, but that's at least something that counting days has helped me deal with. It tricks my brain into thinking I'm just going to go today without it, and I can definitely go one day. And then I go another. And another. Part of my recovery process is not just stopping but also learning to be comfortable with a life without PMO.

So here comes the point, I suppose. Of course there's a part of you that's reluctant to give up MO. You've benefited from it in certain ways throughout your life, but those benefits have also come with real costs. For me, PMO, MO, P, PM, and whatever else are all the same thing. They're all unhealthy sexual behaviors that I use to cope with other stresses in life. They are not part of a healthy sexual life for me, and I don't think they can be. And I guess that's what it comes down to: I'm not just trying to quit porn, I'm trying to quit addiction and to not need to rely on the dopamine from PMO to get through life. So, for me, MO can't be on the table.

And,  based on what you wrote here, it sounds like your nostalgia for masturbation didn't just push you a quick and harmless MO. It led you all the way into something "1000% worse." So I don't know, maybe there is room for MO in your life, but it also seems like it could be more trouble than it's worth, especially if it was thoughts about masturbation that pushed you over the edge this time.

Good luck with another day. We'll get where we're going sooner or later, one day at a time!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Lero on May 27, 2019, 04:46:16 AM
I also really know the feeling of going on a walk to get away from urges and then planning a binge on the way back home. Not really sure what to do about it since those sorts of things always got me in the past. My most recent pattern has been to go about a month without PMO and then to slip into a day or two binge that just had to run its course before I could get back into control. Once it gets going, it seems impossible to stop, so I've just been focusing on catching myself earlier. It's way easier to back off when I spend a little too long looking at a girl at school than when I'm on my computer with porn. Keep an eye out for those early triggers, and do what you need to do.
Man, I know exactly what you mean with this because I've done it. I would have urges, go out for a walk, trying to stay away from watching P only to run back home and PMO anyway.

About masturbation: If it's a self-medication, I don't think it's a good thing. And yes, I'm also at the point where that's why I would do it. It's not part of a "healthy sexual behavior" or whatever. It would send me back to PMO eventually, that's how I feel so I guess I'd have to stay away from it, at least for a period of time until I figure it out.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on May 28, 2019, 03:32:51 PM
@Quit, everything you have experienced these last few days, including looking up escorts, inviting girls over on tinder, MOing to make compromises to your brain, is shockingly similar to my past experiences; it's almost as if I am reading my own journal. Like @Blueheron said, today is a new day. We all have the opportunity to hit a reset button and be a different person that we were yesterday, even if our thoughts don't change much our actions can. Even if you were to relapse 1,000,000 times, the step towards recovery is always right in front of you, and we will be here to lend a hand and help any way we can.

As far as figuring out what is healthy vs unhealthy sexual behavior, I always try and think of the motives behind it all. Am I doing this ONLY for myself, or will my behavior benefit someone else? Even when I was hooking up with girls in college, I did not really care much about how the girl felt, as my motive was doing it for experience and approval of others. One thing I believe very strongly is that MO, PM, or even just P or M (or even just fantasizing) will NEVER benefit the people around me. I know I am guaranteed to enjoy these things and sometimes even feel better for a certain period of time later, but to be your best around others is to be your most honest self. When I PMO I feel unable to do that with anyone, especially with girls I would like to date.

@BlueHeron I also worry about how I can possibly live my life without PMO, as the question to "will I ever masturbate or watch porn again?" ideally is a "no." The thought of giving it up for life seems impossible or nearly impossible given how pleasurable it is, which is why I try to frame it as more of a journey than me striving towards some nearly impossible goal. Day by day, moment to moment, we can always be present and let urges wash over us, as there is no urge that is so powerful that it will physically make you watch P and MO. We are all struggling, but part of "beating" the struggle is trying to find enjoyment in the pain of discipline and restraint. It may sound a little fucked up in a "pain is pleasure" kind of way, but to me, that option has allowed me to discover more in life and create more opportunities for growth than PMO has or ever will.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Lero on May 28, 2019, 04:10:15 PM
Pichaelthompson, good ideas, man!

Quote
today is a new day. We all have the opportunity to hit a reset button and be a different person that we were yesterday, even if our thoughts don't change much our actions can. Even if you were to relapse 1,000,000 times, the step towards recovery is always right in front of you.
That's actually right. The past is past and we can't change it but we can do things today and get to a place where we are better. That's why I tell people not to beat themselves up after relapses or periods when their relapses are out of control. A terrible state of mind can be a facilitator for relapses and binges. We should not let this addiction make us super depressed because when you are depressed, you don't see the light at the end of the tunnel and you don't want to hear about "today is a new day, even if you've been going through a period of out of control binges, you can still start from today." You know what I mean? I'm coming from a big binge, like "good old days" (ironically), 8 PMOs like when I was in fucking high school but what good is being super depressed about it now?
Quote
I also worry about how I can possibly live my life without PMO, as the question to "will I ever masturbate or watch porn again?" ideally is a "no." The thought of giving it up for life seems impossible or nearly impossible given how pleasurable it is, which is why I try to frame it as more of a journey than me striving towards some nearly impossible goal.
Yes, I know how this works. We got ourselves into something very pleasurable and the brain loves pleasure. When you tell yourself: "Okay, this is it, I will quit P forever", you feel that "sadness" like losing a close friend that you used to have an amazing time with but a toxic relationship at the same time, like being used by him or something. At the end of the day, I have to decide what's best for me and the best for me is to reach that day when I'm over with this. Right now it seems crazy, as I couldn't even go a week without PMO recently but it's a journey, a plan, I will get there eventually.
Quote
We are all struggling, but part of "beating" the struggle is trying to find enjoyment in the pain of discipline and restraint. It may sound a little fucked up in a "pain is pleasure" kind of way, but to me, that option has allowed me to discover more in life and create more opportunities for growth than PMO has or ever will.
Ironically, this helps us grow. I guess "no pain no gain" could be true.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 28, 2019, 06:12:33 PM

As far as figuring out what is healthy vs unhealthy sexual behavior, I always try and think of the motives behind it all. Am I doing this ONLY for myself, or will my behavior benefit someone else?

That's a great thought, and is something I think I was trying to get at. If the goal, at least in part for me, is a long-term relationship, anything that's only for me is getting in the way of that goal. PMO isn't about relationships, it's just about getting me a quick fix.

The thought of giving it up for life seems impossible or nearly impossible given how pleasurable it is, which is why I try to frame it as more of a journey than me striving towards some nearly impossible goal. Day by day, moment to moment, we can always be present and let urges wash over us, as there is no urge that is so powerful that it will physically make you watch P and MO. We are all struggling, but part of "beating" the struggle is trying to find enjoyment in the pain of discipline and restraint.

I think this is also spot-on. Plus, I just really can't promise myself that I'll stay on track for the rest of my life (I've tried and failed at that promise too many times to count). But I can promise myself that I'll stay on track today. Or for the next hour. Changing my focus and going day by day instead of forever has helped me realize that even intense urges pass after a few days and life goes on. When I thought I was done for life, I thought I was going to have to deal with those urges forever so I always gave in. By just hanging on for one more day, I finally learned that those urges aren't forever, and I managed to get through them for the first time.

Hope you're doing all right man, hang in there! We're with you in this!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on May 31, 2019, 03:43:46 PM
Thanks so much guys for all the support! Been trying to think a little bit less and analyze less the last few days and I had family visiting! I had a really great time with the family!

All really good thoughts and really glad to hear what you guys all said.

Been all good since my last post. Masturbated about once a day for a day or two, then have done nothing the last three days.

As of now: PMO, Escrots, PMO Fetish fantasy or acting on it: Aim= Eliminate forever.

MO: With fantasy of real women or just to touch alone: Not cutting it out for now, but will incorporate breaks. Basically I will see how it works based on a "does my dick and mind work" basis.

May post a little less (but will keep you all updated!) since I am aiming to do more of "living as if PMO didn't exist" mindset.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on May 31, 2019, 05:08:44 PM
Glad to see you're back and doing much better!

I like the idea of living more as if PMO didn't exist. From my own experience, though (and what are we doing if we aren't nagging each other?), I've run into trouble when I've also lived as if my vulnerability to PMO didn't exist. Does that make sense? I know in the past I've been too careless with triggers and other things because I was acting like PMO wasn't a thing. I think it's definitely good to go out and focus on other things (I'm not saying don't), just take care of yourself (I'm also not saying you won't). Oh well, maybe I shouldn't have even written this paragraph, but I'm in too deep now.

Best of luck with it all, and we'll be waiting for another update!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Lero on June 01, 2019, 06:53:41 AM
I like the idea of living more as if PMO didn't exist. From my own experience, though (and what are we doing if we aren't nagging each other?), I've run into trouble when I've also lived as if my vulnerability to PMO didn't exist. Does that make sense? I know in the past I've been too careless with triggers and other things because I was acting like PMO wasn't a thing.

I think I understand what you mean. This part is tricky but maybe it depends on the individual too. In my case, it helps when I don't think about P. Thinking about quitting P is thinking about P. Thinking about how hard is to quit P is thinking about P. However, if this makes you develop that mentality like "I don't have a problem with P, one PMO won't hurt me", this is not good. Anyway, I guess "Listen to your instincts" could help. People can only suggest things, give advice, tell you what work for them but what works for you, only you can figure out.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on June 01, 2019, 06:45:25 PM

I think I understand what you mean. This part is tricky but maybe it depends on the individual too. In my case, it helps when I don't think about P. Thinking about quitting P is thinking about P. Thinking about how hard is to quit P is thinking about P. However, if this makes you develop that mentality like "I don't have a problem with P, one PMO won't hurt me", this is not good. Anyway, I guess "Listen to your instincts" could help. People can only suggest things, give advice, tell you what work for them but what works for you, only you can figure out.


Yeah, definitely. We're all in this together, but we're also walking really individual roads. Like, for me, posting here often definitely makes me think about P more often than I probably would otherwise, but it's been helpful for me because it makes me more accountable for my thoughts throughout the day. And I think that's one of the biggest breakthroughs I've had recently: accepting that I have a problem that will need daily attention has helped me to take better care of myself from day to day. My mindset has sort of switched from "If only PMO would get out of my life!" to "Since PMO is a part of my life, how do I live with that fact and take care of myself so I don't slip?" It has made urges less of a crisis and more of a call to action.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Lero on June 02, 2019, 04:56:49 AM
Yeah, definitely. We're all in this together, but we're also walking really individual roads. Like, for me, posting here often definitely makes me think about P more often than I probably would otherwise, but it's been helpful for me because it makes me more accountable for my thoughts throughout the day. And I think that's one of the biggest breakthroughs I've had recently: accepting that I have a problem that will need daily attention has helped me to take better care of myself from day to day. My mindset has sort of switched from "If only PMO would get out of my life!" to "Since PMO is a part of my life, how do I live with that fact and take care of myself so I don't slip?" It has made urges less of a crisis and more of a call to action.

That's right. Well said.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on June 02, 2019, 05:19:31 PM
Happy to see you are back and doing well, quit! Yeah for me it does help when I don't think about P, even if that includes thinking about how I will continue to not watch P. The moments we are invested in other things that we enjoy and are good for us are the moments when P has no power over us, and while that might not be as often as we would like they are always attainable. Sometimes when I get really strong urges, I'll try to remember a time when I was totally invested in one moment or experience, where P was nowhere in the mind.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on June 08, 2019, 04:22:44 PM
Hey guys thanks for all of the support!

So, things are a little interesting:

I had been MOing most days but with fantasies with real girls and if I am honest... I feel much much better. My erections got better, mentally I felt a lot better, less effort to control urges.

I had attempted to cut the mo back out then had a mild slip yesterday... (looked at some stuff and some fetish fantasy while moed....)

Honestly I think the mo is helping.... Basically what I did was, when I got an urge instead of fetish fantasy porn or whatever. I was moing but forcing myself to think of healthier sex situations. I had the mild slip when I tried to stop the mo. That is a psychological effect, when I try and cut something out and don't do it, I end up going more extreme.

The slip is a bummer but the cool thing was... After a few weeks of this, I actually got a lot more pleasure moing to "healthier" sex thoughts then to PMO/fetish stuff. It's like I rewired a bit to healthier desires.

My concern is.... will my dick work with a real girl?

Going forward the plan is/was:

MO- But incorporate periods of not doing it as it could be perhaps good for my brain/ penis health as well. That is what I had tried to do then I had a slip....

What I notice AGAIN AND AGAIN. Is not keeping commitments no matter what it is leads to slips.

I had committed to cutting out all sex thoughts (at the end of my last long streak) then when I thought about any sex I ended up full on relapsing. It is more psycological then it is

So, I think things are better, the slip was very mild and I actually don't feel so terrible. I also changed up my diet. I had been on a lowish carb diet, I added more carbs and surprising I am leaner and have more energy and muscle. I think I made a lot of things too extreme and hard for myself.

Still keep getting damn colds lol. (I think it's been the same thing this whole time coming and going.... need health insurance). Rested a lot today but other then that work's been going well. I started budgeting better and am working to get a second gig going to make more money and move forward in life.

Edit: Not sure how clear I was and it may sound like I am minimizing it but.... I am almost excited about this slip because my PMO fetishes did not give me much pleasure. I feel that my brain is changing. I think forcing myself to orgasm to thoughts of real intimacy is making those pathways stronger. It seems bizarre I guess. But it was cool, it was almost like I had to force myself to do the slip, like it was a chore that I should get done because I already started. Never felt that way before and right after I was like man I'd rather think about real girls. So it'd odd to call a slip progress but it definetly felt like it...
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on June 08, 2019, 06:44:40 PM
Glad you're still finding your way and stopping by with updates!

I definitely think it is possible to go too extreme. I started trying to lose some weight last year, and I slipped into being too extreme in cutting back on food. My body reacted by putting on more weight, and I only started losing weight again when I ate more. So yeah, we might think we're doing ourselves a favor by going in as intense as we can be, but it can backfire.

Both weight control and addiction recovery are changes to lifestyle, and it's important to find what works long term. As I've been working at recovery this year, I've been thinking a lot about what changes I can make that I can maintain possibly for the rest of my life. That process has helped me to start seeing these changes as a part of my life moving forward and not just as some quick tricks to fix this addiction and move on.

So keep thinking about what will work for you in the long run. And be careful with minimizing things (I don't know that you are, but you did bring it up). For me, anything that triggers that addictive dopamine loop will lead me back to PMO eventually. It's easy for me to tolerate something that isn't explicitly PMO, but I've learned to be more careful about the things that still work in my brain the same way. Like staring down girls around town in a gross way: not PMO, but also a habit that keeps me tied to PMO in a way. I don't know, that's just me.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: kadeshzelbriel on June 09, 2019, 12:12:16 AM
I love what you're playing with here around gentleness/extremeness in discipline. I totally agree that in my experience, the more harsh the discipline energy, the more extreme the reaction. there's a relevant buddhist principle that the more we try and control the mind, the more it does the opposite of what we want. i think that's related to the attempt to "cut out all sexual thoughts." we can't really ever do this, we can just set an intention around what we do if/when a sexual thought appears, or if the desire to think sexual thoughts comes up, or if we find ourselves indulging in sexual thinking. the same principle would apply - if we're harsh with our self when a sexual thought comes up, it'll come back stronger. if we just gently remember our intentions and why it matters to us, we can retrain our mind over time.

part of what i hear in your approach is finding a way to move the sexual energy that is in the direction you want. if you try and bottle it all up, it'll come out of the more extreme holes. this way, there's an outlet for it.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on June 11, 2019, 04:18:51 PM
I think it's important to experiment around with different approaches and strategies if you think it's what will help you reach your relationship goals, but just be suuuper careful when MOing/fantasizing. I know that cutting out sexual thoughts is bad and will only lead to more desire in the long run, but I do think there is some way to let these thoughts come and go like a spec in the wind, a slight annoyance but something we are comfortable suppressing due to our long term goals. From my experience, MOing without P was great at first because I felt like I was being giving a fair reward to myself while not hurting my brain with P, but eventually MO on its own got boring, and I started to miss P more and more which led to a string of really bad relapses. Again, this is my experience and this was at a time when I had minimal sexual experiences with real women so my brain wasn't wired towards that at all, so I do think this could work if you are already naturally more inclined to pursue real relationships.

Acting on these thoughts (MO) can be good if you think that it rewires your brain towards more real-life situations, but for me it is either a way to indulge my brain through the anticipation of the O, or eventually leads me to an empty feeling; I eventually got no joy out of just MO as there is no passion or external stimulation except for my own hand, and since I could not find intimacy I would fall back on old habits and sink to P again.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Lero on June 12, 2019, 03:47:49 AM
I think it's important to experiment around with different approaches and strategies if you think it's what will help you reach your relationship goals, but just be suuuper careful when MOing/fantasizing. I know that cutting out sexual thoughts is bad and will only lead to more desire in the long run, but I do think there is some way to let these thoughts come and go like a spec in the wind, a slight annoyance but something we are comfortable suppressing due to our long term goals. From my experience, MOing without P was great at first because I felt like I was being giving a fair reward to myself while not hurting my brain with P, but eventually MO on its own got boring, and I started to miss P more and more which led to a string of really bad relapses. Again, this is my experience and this was at a time when I had minimal sexual experiences with real women so my brain wasn't wired towards that at all, so I do think this could work if you are already naturally more inclined to pursue real relationships.

Acting on these thoughts (MO) can be good if you think that it rewires your brain towards more real-life situations, but for me it is either a way to indulge my brain through the anticipation of the O, or eventually leads me to an empty feeling; I eventually got no joy out of just MO as there is no passion or external stimulation except for my own hand, and since I could not find intimacy I would fall back on old habits and sink to P again.

This is how it works for me too. I've never been crazy about just MO, P was what I always craved. If P hadn't existed, I don't think I would've MO-ed that much.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on June 14, 2019, 09:33:42 AM
Thanks a lot for all the support and thoughts guys! Great points on all fronts.

Things have been a bit of a mixed bag. 

I have had some things go well and some things less well. The last few days I made some mistakes. I masturbated with some pmo fantasy two times for two days in a row. That isn't good.

Oddly the cycle has been the same every single time in this new experiment.

1) I was masturbating, most days- And things were essentially good. Occasionally did a little too much.
2) Then  I decided I had to go two weeks without masturbating. Because that is the amount of time I first went "hard mode" and then was able to enjoy sex for the first time.
3) I go one day without masturbating, then the next day I fantasized about PMO or I Mo'd with P fetishes.

This last one was the strongest one, I mo'd two times two days in a row. Then I felt off and wanted to do it again this morning, I still MO'd but forced myself to fantasize about an ex girlfriend.

I can definitely see the negative effect of going back in that PMO fantasy direction stronger erections during the PMO fantasy and weaker erections during my "healthy" fantasies.


So, an odd thing I notice. When I have had the PMO fantasy slips, fantasizing or MO'ing while thinking of porn induced fetishes. I didn't feel good about it, but then when I would use willpower to fantasize about "healthier/ vanilla" sex I would feel better after and my emotions seemed to go back to a lot more grounded.

Now, again I don't want to minimize but I also don't want to get too extreme either.

Part of me had wanted to post here and be all upset and say that I have lost my will and didn't know what to do yadda yadda. But if I think more calmly, I see the same pattern again and again. I try and cut out MO then I slip, when I have not done that I have been mostly fine. Again, I think it is the odd psychological thing.

But here is the funny thing, I had family visit a few weeks ago and I naturally did not MO and it was no big deal. I think it's that psychological thing of making the commitment, feeling pressure and then all the weird "early in streak" stuff. Like oh well, it's only a one day streak so I may as well break it. BUT, by saying I couldn't MO, nor fantasy, nor PMO. I included all of those actions into that one "streak" so when I decide to break it's like "oh, I might as well fantasize about porn". Does that make sense?

So I suppose for now, I may as well try something different. I tried this "14 day no MO" thing a bunch of times. BUT, it clearly was not working. So, I guess I'll just stop that.

Now, I'll see where things go and am open to changing things up, but I've just had issue lately with the trying to cut out everything again.

This does not mean it won't still take discipline! Gotta very strictly control my thoughts with the MO. But I had found it was getting much easier before I tried to cut it out as well.


Here is an analogy: I had been eating a really strict diet for literally over a decade about 99% of the time, started just as I became a teenager. I wouldn't eat bread or any grains. Also no sugar and junk food. (called the paleo diet). It was a ton of work. I was convinced I had to eat that way or I would be fat because I "couldn't control myself and had to go all or nothing so if I could never eat certain foods it would prevent me from being fat". Plus I thought I felt better etc. I read books that said the paleo diet was correct, we should eat like cavemen etc. Turns out we don't really know what cavemen eat and most world class athletes historical geniuses, EVERY single person we have ever heard of ate lots of grain. Because that is the foundation of civilization.

I started to realize this, that the science was bogus. But had kept eating this way for years.

For weeks I had been craving rice and bread and was eating tons of other food to get over the cravings. Finally I consciously without punishing myself or being mad about it, decided "maybe grains are okay?" I still don't eat junk food, as that is clearly bad.

I started eating pasta, rice, bread. The funny thing, suddenly I eat less. I have some chicken with some rice, just one plate and I feel satisfied. I actually lost weight..... Been so convinced diets must be low carb or we'll be fat etc. I am eating less protein, more carbs and I lost fat, gained some muscle and had more energy. 

I also used to when I ate bread, sometimes end up binge eating or having junk food etc. but I realize that was all psychological.

Now it's not the exact same, but I have had this tendency, to create these obstacle for myself and these like "omg I have to be 110%" type of stuff.

Now, Porn is not natural it MUST be removed. That is 110%. The PMO fetishes have been damaging, I find shame in them and make my sexuality a bit "off" (not just the fetish, but it off is an odd compulsive thing, it's not ummm "real/ healthy" sexuality. So I want that stuff gone, with more aggression now.

MO with healthy fantasies- Literally it's just a matter of if it takes away from my life or makes my dick not work. Then it's a problem, but if not it's okay.

Me doing the 14 day thing, has been because I wanted to ensure my dick would work if I met a girl.

Now what I am thinking is, that has clearly not worked. Whether it not working is the problem OR I just need to kick myself in the butt. I am not 100% sure. For now what I am thinking is this: Attempt to listen to my body about masturbating or not, do cut out PMO and the fetish stuff and keep on eye on if the MO fantasy gets too wild.

Then, also be open to/ pursue (without going crazy about it) sex/ relationships with women. If my dick works/ can start to work. Great! If it doesn't/ I can't make it work then I may need to cut out MO again AND the "positive" of that is knowing myself that experience would get me back on track in a hurry.

Besides: If I am honest my last several sexual experiences even with streaks and going hard my dick didn't work too good either:

With virgin: Garbage erections GARBAGE. Actually some of the worst. I think that really contributed to not seeing her again. I was not erect for 80% of the time she was in my bed. I had not PMO'd for over a month but HAD PMO fantasized the day before (the fantasy about the fetishes is a proven erection killer so that has to go). She basically had to spend like a minutes to give me an erection anda  pleasurless blowjob. (Oddly the next day my dick had "come back to life" and I had a full erection for the first time in months (while talking to a girl).
About twoish years prior: Lost it mid sex, few week streak I think. Lasted a few min.

So basically, gonna just let whatever happens happen with a girl. Also going to start doing "pc" exercises. Working out the muscles, this used to give me really much stronger better erections. I did it while a virgin but noticed like substantially improved erections. I have not done it often for YEARS as I was afraid they'd stimulate me and trigger me to masturbate.

They are basically exercises to strengthen a muscle involved with erections. If you do not know what it is ASK ME IN THIS THREAD. I will post a guide either one I write or I'll copy and paste a good excerpt.

Just thinking the exercises themselves are not "sexual"/ pmo but I could imagine a google search could possibly bring up stories/ anecdotes etc. that could be triggering. So if anyone is curious just ask and I'll post in this thread so you don't have to google it.
Also, there is a risk as the exercises do create some slight stimulation so for those who have cut out MO be careful with them.


Goodness this is gonna be a long post. Sorry : )

Two last anecdotes: So I MO'd to PMO fantasy two nights in a row. I felt bad this am. I wanted to do it again, but instead made myself mo to a fantasy about a girl I used to date. Then I wanted to MO again. I was thinking of another girl trying to mo again. Then was losing my erection in the middle. I kept trying for a minute or so. Then I thought "I should PMO fantasy so I can finish!" I even thought "maybe I should look at some escort websites, just so I can get my erection back!".

I had the idea that I had to "finish" even thinking if I didn't "then I'll have urges and I won't be able to create a new no MO streak". Finally I just realized "Wait I CAN just stop" lol. I just stopped M'ing and it was fine, no urge no nothing.

So I do see the risk, like Picha mentioned. But it's odd how so easy it was to just stop when I didn't really want to and my body wanted to stop. Never did that in the past.

So, perhaps that is an educational lesson and what I can experiment with for the time being. Not these 14 day do or die streaks. Not needing to MO everyday or whatever, just trying to listen to my body.

I was thinking about, I saw a therapist briefly who was good. He said I was always turning pleasure into work or into pain. Making things so extreme that I couldn't enjoy them, I was 1000% percent I had to cut things out completely and talked about like all this brain science and compulsion etc. English was not his first language and he goes

"yes, yes the lizard brain.... but you are a person not a lizard" lol.
(Referring to the older parts of the brain I guess lol)

I did mess up with the slips of those few days but....

I have been eating bread etc. healthy grains. Last night I was super hungry and in a rush, i ended up getting chicken nuggets. It was gross: clearly processed and unhealthy I actually got the impulse like "omg I need to cut bread out again". No, just throw at the chicken nuggets lol.

So, that's a new mindset for me.

Anyways long ass post. I mean I spent a solid 4 years working on "hard mode" and did a pretty good job. I never completly "fell off the wagon or gave up on it". This is BY FAR the most I mo'd in many many years. I was non stop trying to have streaks. I actually (and this I am prod of) have not full on PMO'ed since 2015! I have looked at escort websites, maybe seen an hour or two worth of actual porn in total in that whole time and even looked at escort websites and masturbated soon after, but never looked at the screen and MO'd together. It may even be since 2014, thats a long time so damn long that I know it was in November and I am not 100% if it was 2015 or 2014 (probably 2014 in hindsight). So I am proud of that progress and intend to for sure go even further on the no P or Fetish junk. But I guess I can afford to spend a couple months playing with MOing etc.

Anyways CLIFF NOTES: Going to not try to cut out MO at all for a little bit. Will try and listen to instincts and hopefully have periods of not doing it just out of enjoying the break/ my body wanting to rest. (now for example did too much last few days, my body physicallly wants a break, but will not "force myself to do it" just try and be in tune.

Will do PC exercises daily. To make dick work/ hopefully be able to have pleasurable sex.

Going to start posting a bit more again.

Will be open to change: If this does not work, it doesn't work and back on the no PMO grind. That's an option for sure, but I am going to try and not think in extremes.

Also: Go for it with girls. If the dick doesn' work, it doesn't work. It's valuable data. I have had VERY LITTLE sex for years, partially out of always being on my streaks and projects and then nervous about will it work. Just gotta go for it, if my dick works or not it's data and motivation. Gotta fail first to succeed. (Thats how I got it working when it did work, it didn't work with a girl then it'd work with the next after some rewiring)- But not too much pressure to get girls. Life comes first, just not gonna like turn down opportunites and may decide to start pursuing girls a little again.

Also, I have a hypnosis recording for "masturbation addiction" that is supposed to teach moderation. I may give it a go, I never used it before out of horror that it was not focused on 100% abstinance. I also may skip it, will see. (Sounds good in theory but the same people have one for getting over a fetish it is was HORRIBLE) they actually make great relaxing recordings but I think this is an issue they didn't actually deal with so it was like 2nd hand info.

I do see the irony in my no PMO journal turning into like a goddamn masturbation journal lol.



 
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on June 14, 2019, 03:25:12 PM
I value your willingness to try different things @quit, but I think it could sometimes be beneficial to not jump to conclusions too soon. I understand how "hard mode" can lead to multiple binges and unsatisfying sex, I have definitely been there way too many times. For me, I feel like I have gotten over certain humps when it comes to hard mode- noticing tendencies and anticipating when/how they will come, improving at letting urges come and go, channeling that energy into other things.

However, I think there is a higher level to this (for lack of a better term) where we genuinely don't WANT to PMO %99 of the time, or even WANT to fantasize, and the other 1% is an urge nothing more than a slight annoyance, an easy thing to overcome unless you have external factors in your life leading to stress. Of course to reach this, one must have to feel fulfilled in their relationships, career, and everything else. They know that there emotional and physical needs are met without any PMO, and are content with their "lot" in life. Look at the maker of this forum, Gabe Deem- I think he said it took 9 months for him to even get an erection with a woman, don't quote me on that though.

I am certainly nowhere near this, and it could take multiple years, maybe even decades. I know, it sounds ridiculous. But I believe this because of the many success stories I have heard from others on here, people going on hard mode for multiple years (obviously having sex with real people- would be impossible if not for that), finding love, and never PMOing again (or almost never). This might sound idealistic (and corny), but I feel compelled to believe that someday I'll find someone that will be the only person that I want to have sexual feelings towards. This is what I allow myself to fantasize about (among other things not related to PMO/sex), this is my compromise to myself to make hard mode just a bit easier. I do think fantasizing is healthy to a certain extent, but if it goes past what you want in real life than we are left chasing something that will never truly fulfill us. Think about, in a perfect world- if you were able to go for (lets say) a year without ANY PMO, would you be better for it? I know it seems impossible, but is it actually impossible? I can't answer that question personally as I have never even got to half a year.

As for the health analogy, I propose a different one- weight cycling. As you said before, many people have a tendency to lose weight, only to gain it all back due to factors such as stress from pushing too hard, or other responsibilities that lead to people compromising on their diets and skipping workouts. However, every time someone does this, the journey to lose weight gets a little bit harder because of the lost muscle and increased fat. In order to limit these cycles and have sustainable success, it's important to not push too hard, but I think it's even more important to consistently commit to it for a looooong time, much longer than our body or brain would tell us. I say this bc I am guilty of this, and I regret not sticking with it because I know in the long term dieting will improve my life as long as I am getting proper nutrition. Now I have the motivation to workout all the time, but the results are not nearly the same as they used to be. It'll for sure take longer than if I just kept going the first time, but I believe it is still possible if I keep at it both nutrition and health-wise. Now, I am not feeling the same benefits I once did compared to my first 90-day streak (I think I'm around there) but I have faith that this cycle is not permanently ingrained in me, and is something I can break through channeling the energy away from PMO.

Also, sex has been the best for me after long streaks of no P and no MO. Usually not the first few times, but once my brain starts to rewire it's like "oh wow this is what I'm really missing out on" lol

Sorry if I seem combative, I appreciate and respect your thoughts and think a healthy discussion on this topic is good for everyone. No matter what, you have my support %100 bc you know what is better for yourself obviously!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on June 14, 2019, 06:39:51 PM
That was a long a post, lol, but it's always good to see what you have to say.

I think you're right on when it comes to listening to and working with your body. Fighting an addiction is already hard. We don't have to make it harder by being too extreme.

I've probably already made it clear that I'm in the no-MO camp. Like pichaelthompson, I'm not trying to pick a fight. You know what's working for you and what your journey to this point has been like. I guess I have a couple of thoughts to add though.

First, I guess I worry a little bit if MO is a compulsive behavior. If you're turning to it when you're stressed out or bored but not when you're distracted and around loved ones, it makes me wonder if it's a healthy part of your life or just an unhealthy coping mechanism. For me, it's not just about quitting PMO but also about dealing with stress and anxiety without having to rely on the endorphins from O to get through life. I don't know, and I don't want to tell you what to do, but it might be worth asking whether you are in charge of the MO or it's in charge of you. If it's in charge, it doesn't seem like much of a friend after all.

I'm also not sure binges are a sign that something isn't working. Before I started recovery, I never "binged." I just PMOed multiple times a day most days. I wasn't worried about relapses, I wasn't counting streaks, and I was never up all night PMOing. But I was also deep in addiction. I have only experienced binges since trying to fight this thing. So I don't know, is MOing regularly better than trying not to but slipping up and MOing more intensely at greater intervals? That's not a question I can answer for you (but I know the answer for me).

And I think extreme-ness is more about mindset than behavior. Right now, I'm probably more "extreme" than I ever have been before: I have content filters on my devices, I'm posting here almost daily, no porn, no masturbation, no edging, no fantasies, no staring at girls around town just to stare. I have never hit this thing so hard. But, I have also never been so understanding and gentle with myself either. When a thought comes to mind or a girl walks past, instead of yelling at myself and repressing the little pleasure that makes me want more, I just say, yeah, that's an interesting thing, but it isn't going to take me where I want to go. It's not worth the trouble. For me, romantic fantasies always lead to sexual fantasies and then to porn fantasies and then to PMO. It's not that romantic fantasies are bad by themselves. It's just that I have learned that I can't play around with them without getting into trouble. Long story short: for me, 100% abstinence isn't extreme, it's normal for a lot of people. Where I find myself worrying about being too extreme is in my mindset and attitude towards myself: if I'm beating myself up, I'll end up feeling so bad that I turn to PMO to cope. If I'm more compassionate with myself, I can get much closer to 100% abstinence without feeling too uncomfortable with it.

So, there's my two cents. But, before I go, I had no idea that you've been away from full on PMO for so long. That by itself is pretty awesome, even if there has still been junk going on since then. Congrats for that, and just keep making progress. Find what works, hold yourself accountable, and press forward. That's all any of us can do!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on June 15, 2019, 10:53:00 AM
Thanks man! Definitely appreciate your two cents. For me I am happy to take in both of your inputs and happy to make adjustments moving forward. That is very good food for thought especially about if it's being used to allay feelings.


Update: So last nights I thought to MO but then didn't really feel like it and did not. This morning I had some pretty good morning wood.

Yesterday evening I went to an awesome yoga class, I felt super relaxed afterward. I was walking and made eye contact with a girl, we started talking and then went to sit down at a cafe. She wanted to sit outside even though it was rainy and shitty out there. I agreed then a homless/crazy guy sat near us and started saying gibberish trying to talk to me. I tried to get the girl to move and then she was nice but said she had to go.

I had felt bad about that, thinking like maybe I should be able to idk like tell off the homless guy and get us to leave us alone and wasn't manly enough or something lol. I was pretty upset about that. But now that I am calmer about it. I think it wasn't that big a deal the guy talking to us, he was just a crazy guy trying to be friendly and it happened because we were in a bad date location.... sitting outside in bad weather where reasonable people would not sit.

I should not have agreed to us sitting outside and I did so because I was afraid to lose the girl, if I were comfortable and confident I would playfully be like, it's wet outside you are crazy!

So thats a nice insight, the problem was earlier on, not leading and being nervous "playing to not lose" rather then to win. Saying no to sitting outside may have lost the girl but it also gave me the chance of us talking in a nice environment. Sitting outside was just not a nice environment and was a weak move so I would have lost the girl either way. So thats the lesson there, take the risk.

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on June 15, 2019, 02:49:08 PM
I don't blame you at all, I'm %100 I would've done the same thing if she told me she wanted to move outside. Too bad for the homeless guy, I would chalk that up to bad luck more than anything else. Super impressed (and a little bit jealous) of your ability to make eye contact and approach women, keep it up!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on June 15, 2019, 07:15:32 PM
Oh no, sorry about the crazy guy. But congrats on getting to the point where a crazy guy could ruin a date (still a win!)

I know the feeling, and I think pichael and I were talking about something similar in his journal (if I'm remembering right): one side-effect of my recovery efforts is that I have more self-esteem, I guess. Instead of feeling like I'd be lucky to get any girl, I'm starting to realize that I don't have to settle for just anyone. I am definitely the kind of person who would just go with the flow in order to risk losing her, but I'm learning that I don't have to do that anymore. I'm getting a little better at sticking up for myself because I'm starting to recognize my own good qualities (seeing past my PMO problem).

So better luck next time, man! Keep making progress and recognizing your own good qualities. And make the girls feel like they should sit inside so they don't risk losing you lol!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on June 19, 2019, 12:46:33 PM
Thanks guys! Good perspective just to think of this stuff in terms of bad luck, I tend to make it personal and think it'll always happen.

"OMG, if a crazy guy interrupted my talking to a girl then it will always happen and I'll never be able to date".

A bit of a down patch, but luckily it is less of a down then previously.

It rained for about a week straight also, I have been on and off sick for months now, it seems. Had some congestion, thats gone but whole body is achy. I think I have some sort of infection that my body has been trying to keep at bay for literally two months or so.

Sigh.... Hopefully I'll have some health insurance soon. I have some in the state I moved from, which covers an emergency room visit, it'd be a high copay but maybe I ought to go just to try and get some antibiotics or to just suck it up if they say I am fine.

On the plus side, I am aiming to accept my situation, I'm not going to die or anything and I'll have health insurance again in the future so I'll be able to get better eventually.

Being okay with doing a little less for a few days. I stayed home and read for the entire evening after work yesterday.

Did over do the mo yestarday for sure though. Going to take a break from it. I must admit last night it was mostly out of boredom and not some healthy sexuality.

Today is sunny again and I have off a bit of a bummer that I feel sick. (my voice also still hurts). But thinking I'll go to the beach and rad a bunch of then aim to go to a yoga class this evening, it's a gentle class and even when sick I have felt better after just about every yoga class I got to.

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on June 19, 2019, 04:52:14 PM
Sorry you aren't feeling well! Be sure to take care of yourself.

I know I always feel like I have to go at 110% top speed even when I'm sick. Part of what I've been working on is being okay with taking things a little slower and recognizing that rest is also an important part of being productive.

It sounds like you have some good plans, though. Keep working at it and reflecting on your experiences. Staying engaged in the process is a big help.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on July 05, 2019, 05:33:42 PM
Man, sorry to be one of those disappearing ones. Didn't realize it had been so damn long. Wasn't doing well, then wanted to build a streak and be gun blazing killing it. Well.... you guys are right Masturbation is out.....

I guess, I'll get caught up more later, and see what you all are up to.

Day 0.

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on July 05, 2019, 06:05:14 PM
Sorry to hear you weren't doing well Quit, but it's good to hear from you! Since my last relapse (a couple weeks ago I think?) I haven't tried to do anything really that different since I felt like alot of what I was doing was working, but I did make some minor changes such as valuing consistency every day over maximizing productivity. It has helped me feel more even-keeled, not getting too extremely high or low. Best of luck to you on your new streak!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 05, 2019, 06:25:17 PM
Hey, man, sorry to hear it,  but glad you're back.

Day 0 can be a bummer, but it's also a new opportunity to get a fresh start. You've never had a day 0 with so much experience and knowledge before. It could be easy to think about starting again with an "if only" mindset (I do it often enough), but the fact is that everyone is on their own path to recovery. In getting back to this day 0, you have learned some things that will help you to be stronger moving forward.

Keep at it!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on July 06, 2019, 09:46:51 PM
Thanks so much guys! The support means a lot.
Glad to be back. Felt some guilt about being gone so long but, nothing I can do but be back and move forward.

That night was rough and the lapse continued. Toughish day today.
 
A few positives:
Contacted a therapist, I think that could be a help.
Went on the beach for a walk- Actually was not too positive BUT the positive that came is to ummmm not do that again lol. So I thought a long walk on the beach would be a good idea, but I really spent the walk just stewing in my mind and making myself feel bad about myself felt much better afterward.


Step 1) Get through tonight.

At some point will set aside the time to read what I have missed in your journals....

Edit (some hours later): Some noise in the apartment next door irritated me and I got the thought of an urge. Just posting here instead.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on July 07, 2019, 12:52:47 PM
Day 2

Well, that is nice. On day 2. Was feeling a bit upset but aimed to remind myself, there are areas I am progressing in:

My back and shoulder had been hurting
I have been doing rehab exercises everyday and now, after a few weeks my back no longer hurts and my shoulder feels much better! That is some nice progress.... That is one area of my life that is progressing
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on July 07, 2019, 05:40:39 PM
Hey man, I'm super proud of you for continuing to keep going and fighting. I hope later on you can feel there is no reason to feel ashamed or angry at yourself, we all have the strength to move forward. Reading through your journal these past few months have shown me you definitely are able to go through some shit and keep getting better and progressing...I think you'll be able to get right back on track and reach your goals if you just keep your head up and truly believe that you can do this!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 07, 2019, 06:17:33 PM
Yeah, definitely proud of you for keeping up the fight and for coming back to fight it with us!

Edit (some hours later): Some noise in the apartment next door irritated me and I got the thought of an urge. Just posting here instead.

Isn't it crazy how random things can sometimes trigger us? Like what does noise have to do with porn? But I know the feeling, and it's just more evidence that PMO is a coping mechanism. Our brain goes to it when things disappoint or upset us. It isn't really about sex as much as it is about escaping pain. Even the pain of noisy neighbors. That's why, for me, I'm really trying to understand my emotions and to get better at dealing with them in healthier ways.

It's a new day and a new week! Keep on keeping on!

Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on July 07, 2019, 10:59:48 PM
Thanks man! Such a true insight... definite coping mechanism... Finding better ways to handle emotions really critical for sure....

Again had a few urgy thoughts/ rationalization

1) Will I REALLY never masturbate again? Thought (urgy thought)
2) A brief out there tiny thought about ummm trigger thing, (won't go into detail)

Anyways, just recording it.

Other than that, decent day today. Made some adjustment and ended the day with a fun activity. Feeling momentum is returning.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Lero on July 08, 2019, 03:26:22 AM
Isn't it crazy how random things can sometimes trigger us? Like what does noise have to do with porn? But I know the feeling, and it's just more evidence that PMO is a coping mechanism. Our brain goes to it when things disappoint or upset us. It isn't really about sex as much as it is about escaping pain. Even the pain of noisy neighbors. That's why, for me, I'm really trying to understand my emotions and to get better at dealing with them in healthier ways.

It's a new day and a new week! Keep on keeping on!

This is definitely true. In the past, we knew we could run to P anytime we experienced discomfort, like being 7 years old and running to your mom. We trained ourselves to deal with pain with P and we didn't learn how to deal with it in a normal way. That's why when you say: "Okay, no more P," you bump into discomfort and you don't know what to do. P urges start and that voice in your mind tells you to do what you know and forget about trying something else. When I was in high school, anytime I had a hard day in class (tests, annoying teachers, having to be evaluated), I started thinking about what P to watch when I got home. After I got home, I was supposed to look at homework but I PMO-ed furiously for like 4 times.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on July 08, 2019, 04:07:37 PM
100%. Had a little work drama and felt a faint urge for a P website.

Had a good workout which was nice. Going to a meetup, aiming to really fill my schedule out more.

Day 3 today.

Last night had some really strong urges, literally talked out loud to myself and talked myself through it, it worked quite well actually, so something to keep in mind. Talking out loud slowed my thoughts and made them more rational.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: squid on July 08, 2019, 04:26:11 PM
100%. Had a little work drama and felt a faint urge for a P website.

Had a good workout which was nice. Going to a meetup, aiming to really fill my schedule out more.

Day 3 today.

Last night had some really strong urges, literally talked out loud to myself and talked myself through it, it worked quite well actually, so something to keep in mind. Talking out loud slowed my thoughts and made them more rational.

I had a similar experience today with work drama creating urges and am also going to a meet up group to fill my schedule.  Hope it goes well!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on July 08, 2019, 10:43:24 PM
Thanks squid! I am very glad I went it was a sort of business group.... I actually think the guy running it is likely a scammer lol. (He had some VERY outlandish business claims) but I had a good time. Finding this is very useful go to these social events, not like I did before trying to approach girls in the club.....

Just go to things with people around, really helps me hit the reset button. So want to continue.

LOL Ridiculous urge popped up, it is something to laugh about (but take serious at the same time). What creativity our brains can come up with.

A guy rode past me on a bike, he made a noise like he was worried for a second, I imagined what if he fell into the street that train of thought after going through a few permutations somehow morphed into a a very outlandish sex fantasy. (I am not gay (nothing with with it if you are) and the dude on the bike no longer existed in the fantasy. Not going into detail as it could be trigger but goodness the thoughts can pop up out of nowhere.

Worked out a ton. Back to lifting new program. Just high volume pushing hard but higher volume, it really really releases energy and tension in a great way. I actually feel much calmer.

Anyway, I keep saying it but got to catch up your all journals soon. But at least I am back
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on July 09, 2019, 09:41:42 AM
Nice! I think I remember you giving me some advice a couple months ago about how our minds just naturally think of weird or f*cked up things, and that there's no reason to give any energy or action towards that. That has helped me alot because I feel like when I get the slightest bit bored, my mind always tries to think of crazy ideas that often lead to urges.

Working out is such a great way to calm the mind...at first I was doing it for vain reasons (looking good, getting girls) but now I genuinely like the feeling of pushing my body and getting a good sweat in. Your body knows that what you're doing is good for you (post-workout) and as a result your mind will feel better too. Keep it up!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on July 09, 2019, 10:45:59 AM
So true man! I know exactly what you mean, pushing the body feels amazing. Just went for a swim at the beach.... thinking that's another cool way I may want to get into pushing my body, swim along the shore. I live one block away from a beautiful beach!

A little shark swam up to me a few months ago, so I was a bit scared and not taking advantage of the beach lately. but.... I was told these little sharks don't attack people and no recorded shark attacks have ever happened here, so thinking to just get over it.... it is technically not a rational fear (as I write that, the thought "man I am gonna feel dumb when a shark eats me" popped into my head lol) but I have craved more outdoors and adventure in my life and swimming in the ocean is just the thing.... the only thing keeping me away has been the fear.
 
Day 4
Doing well except just before sleep my mind went to a fetish fantasy for a minute or so. Sometimes when that would happen I would ended up diving right into the fantasies within a few days. So part of me thinks maybe I ought to reset my counter. Sigh I guess I will. For this odd reason: I just think it will help me to really stamp out any of that crap and for some odd reason my gut is telling me resetting the counter will help me to stay away from the fantasy for tonight so...

Day 0. (But still making good progress)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 09, 2019, 05:50:54 PM
Hey man, some solid reflections, and glad you're still making progress.

Urges/fantasies/triggers are crazy. They'll get us when we're least expecting them (and when we're most expecting them). All we can do is be aware of them and deal with them in the moment sometimes. Laughing at them seems like a great strategy: worrying about them has always made me more anxious and more likely to be triggered to deal with the pain of worrying about relapsing.

I think some people might think your decision to reset the counter for a minute or two of fantasy is a little extreme, but I just want to say that I support it. Sure, the "goal" is no PMO, and the counter is supposed to reflect that. BUT, we can only be successful at that if we're really serious about cutting all the little triggers and "minor" form of our addiction out of our lives. I think your decision to reset shows your commitment to really holding yourself accountable for even the little things. (Sometimes, I have kept multiple counters going, one to keep track of PMO and another to keep track of things like fantasies, just because I think it's useful to still keep track of PMO. But you do what works for you.)

Just keep at it. I'm always impressed by your thoughtfulness and willingness to get to work at fighting this thing.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on July 09, 2019, 11:36:19 PM
Thanks man! I think the two counters idea is a good one.

Here to ummm have self awareness and stay aware from my urge. (May have short time)

Tried talking to girls again for the first time in awhile, met a very nice attractive girl (after many failures) we exchanged numbers then she ignroed me after.

Was triggered but made self go out to activity!

Back home VERY strong trigger again, had planned to go out. I was going to skip it but this resulted in a very strong urge. So I got the fuck out even though I was exchausted. Had good time went to bookstore.

Met girl on way back. Felt she was attractive then she actually came home with me.

Two things
1) Once she is here I start worrying she used to be a man or something else is wrong with her. Had this girl rejected me I would have thought she was so hot. Home with me, I look for a reason it can't be real. Some self sabotage. Will expand on later.
2) She is here now, in other room. I was getting all these urges and she seems "wild" and my mind is like cool! I can get her to engage in pmo fantasies. So that is why I am here! To acknowledge this and play it right.

a) NONE of the pmo bs, if we have sex or try to or get physical it is a rewiring opportunity.
b) if she leaves (formally a strong trigger, the lost sex opportunity)- I think that is what ended my big streak..... Just read a bit and sleep. If an urge is strong take a walk or something.

I also see this as a decent opportunity in that if we attempt sex, this girl is on vacation and ummmm not relationship material so if my penis does not work it will be MASSIVE motivation but no big lose.

ALSO: Been getting up and getting shit done in morning so continue that even if a latish night (won't let it get too late tho.)
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on July 09, 2019, 11:57:14 PM
Well, uneventful but a good lesson learned. The girl wanted to borrow my underwear to change took it then said she had to go in 15 minutes. Looked close and looked like she may have had small sore on her lips THANK GOD I did not kiss her....

I was pyscho analyzing myself but maybe when I get the girl my thought was accurate. This girl was all "slutty" Porn/stripper looking but up close seems kind of dirty and gross. Man... focus on the wholesome "real" girls in future. Not the mirage of desirability of girls who are basically just wearing a ton of make up and are low on morals.

Anyway, I lost a $3 pair of underwear and she ate some of my food. But other than that she is gone and nothing bad came of it. But man good lesson having standards. That girl was so trashy basically came here cause she was hungry I think. The girls we see in porn/ strip clubs etc. not nearly as good was we think..... take a sweet "real" person girl anyday.

Up close even without PIED not sure my dick would have worked....

Anyway, whatever reason this motivated me. Like this girl came I took control of the fetish fantasys and was not desperate and actually hustled her out even sooner then she wanted to go once I realized she was not a benefit in my life. Feels good. Now off to spend some time reading and then zzzzz.

One last thing..... As I walked with her other dudes looked at me like I was a cool bad ass. My last dates were with the girl that disappeared, sweet eurpean girl, no one thought I was a badass for walking around with her but wow that was a girl I really enjoyed being around and found truly attractive
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 10, 2019, 07:16:18 PM
Frankly, it sounds like a really good thing that it all worked out the way it did. No sense wasting your time on something that doesn't have the potential to last.

If I didn't say it here, I said it somewhere, but I'll say it again, lol. One of the side effects of my recovery has been discovering higher standards for the women I'm willing to go out with. You know, in the past I felt like I would be lucky just to have any girl notice me, awkward and addicted and worthless as I felt I was. But now I'm learning to like who I see in the mirror and learning to recognize my good qualities, things that would make me interesting to a quality woman.

Glad you're recognizing that too. You've got a lot going for you, and there's no reason to sell yourself short on a girl who only wants your underwear and food (never thought I'd say that sentence in my life). Sounds like you've had an experience with the kind of girl you're actually looking for, so keep shooting for that.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on July 11, 2019, 02:10:56 PM
Agree and relate with BlueHeron %100, another thing I'll add is that it's awesome that you were able to turn a not-so-great experience into motivation. So often when something negative happens to it we (or maybe just me) look at it like everything in life going forward is worse because of it. But when I hear stories of successful people, it was those negative experiences that were necessary to shaping the person they became later on in life. You are doing great living boldly and going for it, and I think you realize that when it doesn't work out there are many positives that come from it. Keep it up!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on July 11, 2019, 06:44:57 PM
Great insights guys....

Unfortunately I slipped...
1 MO that night and two the next day....

Back to day 1....

Well right back on the horse. I think it was just an adjustment period to get back to working up the streak.

Goal: 30 days.


I had had dating apps on my phone. Checked it only twice that day but felt the huge dopamine rush and heart beating... never again.
I think that plus having the woman who I only viewed as a sex object/pmo fetish deliverer. Simply was too triggering that early in the streak...

Just gotta remember especially early on, be very careful. Avoid as much sexual stimulation as possible. The huge one is deleted the apps and moving forward: HAVE STANDARDS! Really gotta focus on relationship, will expand on this a bit later... (Dating vs working on life....)

Anyway the slips were so draining. Gotta remember addiction or not man, the clean pmo and mo free life is soooo much better. It adds so much energy. Was so tired and drained with the slips. Looking forward to building it back up and NEVER doing that shit again. The only positive of the slips is I think I am finally really totally re sold on quitting. After losing that really long streak I guess it was hard to recommit to it...
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 11, 2019, 07:02:27 PM
Sorry to hear it, but you don't need me to tell you to get back on your feet (you're already doing it!)

I think you're right on with avoiding dopamine rush/sexual stimulation as much as possible. It's hard to take the step of cutting it all out, but right now, at least for me, there isn't any okay outlet for that stuff, and it will only lead to PMO if I mess around with it.

I totally support a focus on building relationships over sex/stimulation. That's an important mindset to adopt! Get rid of those apps and live your best life!

It can definitely be hard to get momentum going again after a relapse. I always experience "aftershocks" before I can really get going again. Ride them out and then get back at it!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on July 12, 2019, 08:57:54 AM
I have been there before @Quit, when you get back on the horse it almost sometimes feels as if you have too much energy. Being able to channel that excess energy into relationships without being too overly hyper or anxious is still a huge challenge for me, but something I think will pay off in the long run if I just keep working at it. Meditation, working out, telling yourself to stay calm all help to some degree, but the harsh reality is that it takes time and patience more than anything else for my brain to make minuscule changes over the long run, since those habits are deeply ingrained. You got this man, we believe in you!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on July 12, 2019, 03:24:11 PM
Day 2

Thanks guys! I do think I am feeling some aftershocks, just quite tired right now. But I started the day right..... did my morning routines (had a good one I had missed for those two days) and went for a nice run. Great idea on exercising more. Running is pretty amazing, I think I ought to organize my workouts more, plan runs not just do haphazard. Running feels really good and can build up my fitness. No reason not to get in all round shape.

Got done an important task that'll help me possibly get a second work gig which is nice, it was tedious and mostly riding in a car but it had to be done so why not be happy with it?

Took two naps today and now feeling a little bit sad. I get this feeling like I am wasting my days off sometimes.....
Still have my lifting to do so will do that. I bet the naps'll pay off and I'll get a good workout in.

Avoiding all dopamine is so true... I have an email I haven't checked in awhile, even thinking of that gave me a little rush so I realized no need to check that email. It somehow triggered this checking for replys/ response. NEVER dating apps again.... That is what killed so many streaks and is the worst. Full on part of the addiction.

Catching up on your journals, good insights there and should be all updated soon!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 12, 2019, 06:06:36 PM
Way to be! It's all progress.

I know the feeling of sadness/guilt that comes with taking it easy. Just today I was a show and I decided to watch one more episode because "it's Friday night." Time to take it easy. I feel pretty good about that decision, but there's still a part of me that's nagging me about how I could have used that hour to do something useful. But rest is useful. Maybe getting in the habit of having lots of naps isn't great, but sometimes it's just what you need, especially if you're struggling to get back on your feet after a relapse. Don't be too hard on yourself for going at your own speed (and not the speed you wish you could go). That's something I'm still trying to learn myself.

And awesome, too, that you're recognizing all the dopamine triggers that are part of the addiction. I feel like that has been a big breakthrough for me. When I was only focused on PMO, I didn't notice all the other things (like social media, video thumbnails, etc.) that were triggering me and contributing to relapses. Recognizing those things for what they were and cutting them out of my life has helped a ton.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on July 13, 2019, 11:01:35 AM
Day 3
Thanks man!

Been catching up on journals and it seems like the super intense "I am not doing enough" mindset is common. So that is something to work on for sure.....

I had been writing down three things I am grateful for everyday for the past 1 and a half months of so. I realized this morning I forgot to do it yesterday. The emotions I felt were wildly intense, like something devastating had happened. Then I started rationalizing okay, it was a mistake to have that goal etc. ! (Reminds me a little bit of when I broke my last streak and suddenly now I should try masturbating and not cut it out..... like an imperfection happens and then being like you know I never should have done that in the first place).

Luckily I pulled myself together and wrote out my gratitude stuff and chalked it up to a learning experience, in the grand scheme of things that one day won't affect me, at the same time I do want to keep my commitments. BUT learning to handle set backs outside or internally and keeping going is likely important.

Didn't feel too good today, but went to the beach and felt a bit better. Thinking a therapist will be real helpful, hit a small snag in finding one but will see...
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 13, 2019, 06:26:32 PM
Hey, I'm sorry you missed a day of gratitude, but I'm glad you got yourself straightened out.

You know, I feel like I've been extra sensitive to small upsets and disappointments in the last few months. I've always been easily discouraged, but it's been more intense lately. Probably because I don't have porn to numb them back down. Either way, I get the feeling. I'm also very familiar with messing up something that's working and then convincing myself it wasn't working. Silly addicted brains playing tricks on us.

Commitment and persistence matter way more than perfection in this fight. A misstep here or there is okay as long as you don't give up on the things that you know are good for you.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Lero on July 14, 2019, 05:17:22 AM
Hey, I'm sorry you missed a day of gratitude, but I'm glad you got yourself straightened out.

You know, I feel like I've been extra sensitive to small upsets and disappointments in the last few months. I've always been easily discouraged, but it's been more intense lately. Probably because I don't have porn to numb them back down. Either way, I get the feeling. I'm also very familiar with messing up something that's working and then convincing myself it wasn't working. Silly addicted brains playing tricks on us.

Commitment and persistence matter way more than perfection in this fight. A misstep here or there is okay as long as you don't give up on the things that you know are good for you.

Yes, I know how this works. PMO numbs you, like a painkiller. It makes me have no emotions. I mean, it makes me feel nothing when I should, as a reaction to something happening. I couldn't even get sad or angry (about PMO-ing too much). When we stop using PMO like a painkiller, or anti-depressants, whatever you want to call it, we actually experience those emotions but we feel them stronger because we haven't been exposed to them for years. Things should stabilize eventually.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: restorationjunkie on July 14, 2019, 08:56:32 AM
You have some good plans to deal with urges on here. I will keep them in mind myself. How are you seeing progress this month?
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on July 15, 2019, 10:31:31 AM
Day 5

I know what you mean, in terms of being more sensitive to small things. Funny enough, I don't remember PMO deadening my emotions, but maybe I have just been fighting it for so long and not fully in it that I can't remember, don't think so though. It would give me a few minutes escape but the negative emotions were right there, and I certainly was not numb about most things.

I had a quite nice day yesterday and a nice morning. I learned a lot.

My social life is really improving. Slowly but surely I feel like I am starting to develop something of a "real social life". I found a new activity I am getting really into, instead of doing a little bit of a million things, I am participating in this one activity as much as I can, running into the same people getting invited to off shoots and hung out with a small group of people to eat and play games afterward last night. Goodness that was so nice. Really made me feel happy and an increased sense of meaning, being part of a group has been something consistently missing from my life.


Anyway, so felt really nice after that, good this morning as well.

A HUGE key for me is practicing mindfulness. I feel much better when I focus on being present. I notice I have the tendency to just burn away loads of energy by getting lost in various exciting fantasies.

Like I felt great this morning and often when I feel great, instead of enjoying the feeling, I start fantasizing about some grandiose victory. I used to be really into sports, I spent an entire bike ride fantasizing in being in this imaginary glorious high pressure situation and winning, over and over and over. To the point my adrenaline was pumping etc. Another example is I was reading these books by Navy seals and I start fantasizing about being a Navy seal and being a war hero etc.

A little embarrassing to write about, but I suppose this sort of thing is normal. You see it in movies and books all the time after all. But for me I can get so lost in fantasy and just lose time. PLUS again, my fantasies can be so intense that I literally have adrenaline pumping, it actually feels like I did just play a sports game or something. Except I didn't, it's just wasted emotional, mental and even physical energy.

Now, it's not the end of the world, but I notice being present really evens out my energy and moods and makes me feel happier. So want to aim for that more and to lower intense fantasies (I think I wrote about this some months back, time to remember it).

This also will greatly aid me in killing the PMO nonsense in my head, all of that junk lives in my fantasy world. I read about this, fantasy can be addictive. People spend more and more time in fantasy and less time enjoying and improving their lives, this their lives deteriorate and they want to spend more time in fantasy......

Edit: Just read what I wrote and to briefly expand.
1) The level of energy is wild! Like my heart way goes waaayyyy up like I am in a real fight or something. 2) It's like a general habit of literally using all of the positive energy. Just feeling it and then going into these fantasies until I drain it all away.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on July 15, 2019, 01:03:18 PM
I think that kind of fantasizing is something very natural, and I'm sure many others including me can relate to this on a deep level. We all want to feel like the hero in our own story, but it often doesn't feel like that way in real life. To "scratch that itch" for lack of a better term, we sometimes have to change what a perception of being a hero is in our minds: for some its being a loving and protecting parent, for others it might be achieving a high skill in some type of job field, for others it might be going on a long PMO streak and having the confidence to never turn to PMO again, and it could also be a combination of many things. We are all on the "hero's journey" to rid ourselves of PMO, it's just not a story that would necessarily be a blockbuster if it were a movie so sometimes our brains want to find a more interesting goal to achieve, regardless of the importance it has to our physical and mental health. Keep on going, you're doing great!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 15, 2019, 07:45:36 PM
I think that kind of fantasizing is something very natural, and I'm sure many others including me can relate to this on a deep level. We all want to feel like the hero in our own story, but it often doesn't feel like that way in real life. To "scratch that itch" for lack of a better term, we sometimes have to change what a perception of being a hero is in our minds: for some its being a loving and protecting parent, for others it might be achieving a high skill in some type of job field, for others it might be going on a long PMO streak and having the confidence to never turn to PMO again, and it could also be a combination of many things. We are all on the "hero's journey" to rid ourselves of PMO, it's just not a story that would necessarily be a blockbuster if it were a movie so sometimes our brains want to find a more interesting goal to achieve, regardless of the importance it has to our physical and mental health. Keep on going, you're doing great!

Wow, that's an awesome thought! I want to second that wholeheartedly!

And I'm right with you on mindfulness. Centering myself on the present  has been a huge help to me in recovery this year. Plus, I've read enough studies that talk about how meditation can physically change the brain to make me think there's really something to using mindfulness and meditation as a way to heal from addiction.

Keep it going!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: squid on July 15, 2019, 10:24:56 PM
I think that kind of fantasizing is something very natural, and I'm sure many others including me can relate to this on a deep level. We all want to feel like the hero in our own story, but it often doesn't feel like that way in real life. To "scratch that itch" for lack of a better term, we sometimes have to change what a perception of being a hero is in our minds: for some its being a loving and protecting parent, for others it might be achieving a high skill in some type of job field, for others it might be going on a long PMO streak and having the confidence to never turn to PMO again, and it could also be a combination of many things. We are all on the "hero's journey" to rid ourselves of PMO, it's just not a story that would necessarily be a blockbuster if it were a movie so sometimes our brains want to find a more interesting goal to achieve, regardless of the importance it has to our physical and mental health. Keep on going, you're doing great!

Anyone that wakes up in the morning and says in their mind, "Today is going to be a better day", and trys to make it so, is a hero.  You are too.  Keep going man!
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Lero on July 16, 2019, 03:09:26 AM
Anyone that wakes up in the morning and says in their mind, "Today is going to be a better day", and trys to make it so, is a hero.  You are too.  Keep going man!

I think it's a better idea to start the day thinking positively. It could change the way you feel the whole day.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Quitforeverthenwin on July 17, 2019, 10:47:58 AM
Great points guys...

Unfortunately back at day 0. Seems like I am in that annoying slip every few days after a long streak snapped mode....

At least my slips have not been too terrible.

I know exactly what did it though.....

#1) I looked in the mirror and thought I should lose a bit of fat. I am by no means over weight but am not as lean as I have been at times, been working out and felt I looked just average.... I decided to try and not eat carbs for the day just to lean out a little.... Ate way too little. Man my body did not respond well I just got starving and exhausted by the end of the day and then I ate a whole bunch, which was fine but I think it set off a bit a binge instinct. Mostly though, it was allowing my mind and body to be exhausted by the hunger that did it.... So no more stupid diets, eat healthy and plenty. I am not all into 12 step but they do have an acronym HALT- Hungry Angry Lonely Tired... can all be possible triggers. Some truth to that.

Correction- Eat healthy and plenty no diets just healthy food AND start running again. I'd been focused on lifting and not doing much cardio. If I want to lean out a bit, just run which is great for me mentally and I wanted to do anyway.

#2) Fantasized a whole bunch about sex the day before.

#3) Let apartment get really messy.

And finally- Don't have a plan for urges. I had like no urges remotely for days. Then just pretty much decided to lapse. I was just like "okay, I want to lapse I'll do it" minimal resistance. Thats a bit frustrating.

I tried the therapist- Honestly, it wasn't good. Will look into another. I felt worse after and got thrown off from it. 
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: pichaelthompson on July 17, 2019, 11:09:47 AM
It's all good man, yeah I understand while it feels annoying but don't let that hurt your confidence moving forward. You know you can do this as you have done it before, and we all know you can do it too.

It's crazy how everything is connected: If I eat/workout right, my work gets better, my urges are easier to deal with, I'm better with my relationships. I also get better sleep, and the same is true if I don't do well on any of those things, it affects everything else. I often try to compartmentalize my life but in doing so I make compromises, for example: I'll skip my workout and eat some fast-food, but I gotta make sure to do my work after. Even if that's what I do, I won't feel as good doing it and therefore won't be as effective. Of course, there are moments to treat yourself, but that is all connected to prolonged periods of doing the right thing, allowing your body and mind a small break from changing for the better.

As far as a plan for urges, I guess my plan recently has been to not have a plan...as in literally do nothing to engage with the urge. In the past, my relapses have often come from me trying to reason with myself in my head why I shouldn't watch P. This works alot of the time, but sometimes no matter what you say to yourself there is a part of your brain that makes a compelling counter-argument, and I end up relapsing. Now I try to recognize when I have the urge, and be as zen as possible. Either return to the task I'm doing, or take a break and pay attention to the physical sensations and emotion. In other words, quiet the voice inside of your head because you already know that no PMO is the right thing to do, so allowing you to try to explain to yourself why it's wrong (something you have done before, so it is not needed) will only open up the opportunity to falsely convince yourself otherwise.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: Lero on July 17, 2019, 12:30:52 PM
As far as a plan for urges, I guess my plan recently has been to not have a plan...as in literally do nothing to engage with the urge. In the past, my relapses have often come from me trying to reason with myself in my head why I shouldn't watch P. This works alot of the time, but sometimes no matter what you say to yourself there is a part of your brain that makes a compelling counter-argument, and I end up relapsing. Now I try to recognize when I have the urge, and be as zen as possible. Either return to the task I'm doing, or take a break and pay attention to the physical sensations and emotion. In other words, quiet the voice inside of your head because you already know that no PMO is the right thing to do, so allowing you to try to explain to yourself why it's wrong (something you have done before, so it is not needed) will only open up the opportunity to falsely convince yourself otherwise.

I understand this because I've been doing it a little bit. When urges hit me I just...did nothing. I didn't move my hands, I didn't do anything, just waited there. Then you realize that actually those urges come and go.
Title: Re: My journal to recovery- Could use support
Post by: BlueHeronFan on July 17, 2019, 06:26:27 PM
As far as a plan for urges, I guess my plan recently has been to not have a plan...as in literally do nothing to engage with the urge. In the past, my relapses have often come from me trying to reason with myself in my head why I shouldn't watch P. This works alot of the time, but sometimes no matter what you say to yourself there is a part of your brain that makes a compelling counter-argument, and I end up relapsing. Now I try to recognize when I have the urge, and be as zen as possible. Either return to the task I'm doing, or take a break and pay attention to the physical sensations and emotion. In other words, quiet the voice inside of your head because you already know that no PMO is the right thing to do, so allowing you to try to explain to yourself why it's wrong (something you have done before, so it is not needed) will only open up the opportunity to falsely convince yourself otherwise.

Yeah, I think my strategy is pretty similar. Sometimes I will say something to myself like "Thanks for the suggestion, but I"m not going to do that right now." Other times, it seems like my brain is worried that I'm "missing out" on seeing someone super attractive or something, and I'll just say "It doesn't matter," just to remind myself that I'm not actually losing anything by abstaining. Sometimes I say it out loud. But, for the most part, I do just try to take thought out of it and to focus my attention on something else, sometimes the sensation of the urge (but that can sometimes make it feel stronger) but mostly my breath. Without attention, the urges die away eventually. Attention, whether we're flirting with them or shouting at them, usually just makes them stronger.

Sorry to hear about the restart, but a fresh start is always an exciting opportunity to do something new/better. Don't forget to take care of yourself!