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Journals => Women => Topic started by: SO Reboot Partner on March 20, 2014, 09:04:03 PM

Title: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on March 20, 2014, 09:04:03 PM
Okay, so it isn't the year of the Dragon, but my Chinese zodiac is the Dragon and this is going to be my year. I am claiming it as mine, but I will share it with anyone willing to take this journey.

I'm married to a pretty fantastic guy that uses PMO to the extent he cannot share himself. When he's on PMO, he's indifferent, disconnected. He is careless with his words, his criticisms, my heart.

He made it several months successfully away from PMO. I was in heaven, maybe a little too proud of myself for "fixing it". Maybe this is the price of pride.

This week I found a huge stash of P and deleted it. He's been "pushing rope" and using again for the past few months.

We are back at ground zero.

I feel like an idiot, but an idiot that can learn from her mistakes. I'll post the whole story in a few days. Right now I'm just dealing with it.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on March 20, 2014, 11:21:42 PM
Okay, so it isn't the year of the Dragon, but my Chinese zodiac is the Dragon and this is going to be my year. I am claiming it as mine, but I will share it with anyone willing to take this journey.

I'm married to a pretty fantastic guy that uses PMO to the extent he cannot share himself. When he's on PMO, he's indifferent, disconnected. He is careless with his words, his criticisms, my heart.

He made it several months successfully away from PMO. I was in heaven, maybe a little too proud of myself for "fixing it". Maybe this is the price of pride.

This week I found a huge stash of P and deleted it. He's been "pushing rope" and using again for the past few months.

We are back at ground zero.

I feel like an idiot, but an idiot that can learn from her mistakes. I'll post the whole story in a few days. Right now I'm just dealing with it.
Giving up porn addiction is not easy. Hopefully he'll come to see that the porn free life is more satisfying.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Jverhoye on March 22, 2014, 04:57:00 PM
How awesome that you are willing to share your story!  I truly believe that so many partners are yearning to be heard themselves.  Good luck to you and your partner.  He is lucky to have you in his life.  I look forward to seeing your future posts.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on March 22, 2014, 08:18:42 PM
Big thank you to Jverhoye and LTE, your support means a lot. I need friends that understand right now.

Just to catch everyone up on the situation, I was at rock bottom sometime in July, last summer. I caught my husband PMO "in the act" as they say. Our marriage was running on fumes, sexless for over seven years. I had no idea it was PIED. I didn't know about P-addiction. He didn't either.

I was done, exhausted, fried, frazzled and finished. I was ashamed, degraded and angry. I had made myself physically ill and depressed over this mess. My family suffered. He wasn't talking about us as a couple or even the kids in the future tense anymore. The day I "caught" him I told him I wanted to leave if the disconnection didn't get addressed soon. I still could only see the symptoms, but had no idea what the source of the problem was.

Then I found YBOP.

Finding a problem definition, a solution, a path forward - I don't really have the words to describe how comforting it was to discover my husband was a p-addict. I know that sounds counter-intuitive, but I had already wallowed in self-pity and self-blame. I was prepared to walk away from that and run like I was on fire to something better.

I was very enthusiastic that we had a possible "cure".

I gobbled up everything from YBOP. I was nodding in agreement and speed reading everything. I  quizzed him on his PMO history, plotting the best path to recovery. I practiced what I thought was support. I forgave him everything "before" this revelation - I wiped the slate. He didn't have to make up or repent his sins to me, he just had to sin no more.

We were back in the sack and the good times were rolling. The kids were responding to the better, happier parents. My skin was clear! My aches and pains disappeared. I smiled more.

I will admit, I felt a little proud of myself for his recovery.

In the meantime, his work life was changing and we opened our own business. The stress was pretty high and he had no skills to deal with them. He started binge PMO again. The lying started again. I could see he was using in his eyes. Nothing was going on in the bedroom. He began being condescending and critical.

I found a huge P stash on his work computer this week while he was out of the office for a few hours. He asked me to fix his computer, so it wasn't like I was really looking for it.  Disgusting stuff. I will admit I cried, then I just deleted it, locked up the office and left one of the un-deleted videos up and running in a loop on his screen. (it had been downloaded the previous weekend)

Did I mention I'm working in the office without pay? I think this is clear evidence that I am an idiot.

I really considered packing it up, leave him and the P to each other. What stopped me was the fact he needs me to succeed right now and that would impact the future of our kids. So after driving around, furious with myself for being so stupid, I went back.

We are now in round two of the reboot.

I know I've rallied on a bit here about my own intelligence, but it is more hyperbole than low self-esteem. I like myself and I don't blame me for his relapse. But! I have made mistakes that realistically are only going to secure success in the future if I can learn from them and not just give up.

I'll make a list of what I did wrong and how I'm going to do it right in my next entry. I might even have something to report in the way of results. For now, I'm tired.

Thanks to anyone willing to read this mish-mash and make sense of it.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: STR on March 22, 2014, 08:33:40 PM
My wife didn't know about my PMO addiction. If I try to think of something she could have done to help me break the addiction if she had known about it, I'm not sure she really could have done anything. I had to want to break it myself. It sounds to me as if your husband has not been 100% committed to breaking his addiction.

Does your husband know about YBR (or this site)? Has he started a journal? If not, you might want to suggest it to him. If he's not willing to to do so, then I would question his overall commitment to your marriage and to breaking his addiction.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on March 22, 2014, 08:53:48 PM
My wife didn't know about my PMO addiction. If I try to think of something she could have done to help me break the addiction if she had known about it, I'm not sure she really could have done anything. I had to want to break it myself. It sounds to me as if your husband has not been 100% committed to breaking his addiction.

Does your husband know about YBR (or this site)? Has he started a journal? If not, you might want to suggest it to him. If he's not willing to to do so, then I would question his overall commitment to your marriage and to breaking his addiction.

You are right on track there, he was not 100% committed. I think we have at least more commitment this second go around.

We had a very blunt conversation about this and he admitted he was going through the motions to make me happy, but he really just used P "to relax."

Now the first time around I would have left that comment right there, but my second time around viewpoint is a lot less patient.

My response was basically "What is relaxing about a broken penis and an empty bed?"

I've also made it clear that if he decides that he would rather PMO, I will respect that but I have decisions too. I mean this. I'm not going back to being a Pwidow. I can't love me less than I love him. It just isn't possible.

He has identified his triggers and is encouraging me to be with him on the weekends in the office until he can break the habit and control himself.

Edit - Yes, he knows about the forum, knows I post here. I'm encouraging complete honesty. It would be great to have his input here, every "story" involving a couple is only 50% of the picture.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Jverhoye on March 22, 2014, 09:05:58 PM
All I can say is "Wow"!  You are so courageous!  I can only speak about my experiences, but for me it was my "rock bottom" moment that moved me to finally get help.  Yes, I had to be totally invested and do it for me.  I also had my wife ask me to move out, and my kids told me, to my face, they had lost all respect for me.  Three years later I am in recovery, have amazing relationships with my wife and kids, and am part of an after-care support group that helps me stay accountable and porn- free.  Ultimately, in treatment and therapy I was able to work through my core problems that we're fueling my Compulsive Sexual Behavior (CSB).  I admire your supportiveness and pray that your husband will commit to his recovery with his whole heart and mind.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on March 22, 2014, 09:24:32 PM
All I can say is "Wow"!  You are so courageous!  I can only speak about my experiences, but for me it was my "rock bottom" moment that moved me to finally get help.  Yes, I had to be totally invested and do it for me.  I also had my wife ask me to move out, and my kids told me, to my face, they had lost all respect for me.  Three years later I am in recovery, have amazing relationships with my wife and kids, and am part of an after-care support group that helps me stay accountable and porn- free.  Ultimately, in treatment and therapy I was able to work through my core problems that we're fueling my Compulsive Sexual Behavior (CSB).  I admire your supportiveness and pray that your husband will commit to his recovery with his whole heart and mind.

Thank you very much for giving me a shred of hope. I really like that word "recovery".

It sounds like both you and SlavetoRighteousness are real fire walkers when it comes to navigating this journey.

It has to be his decision to seek help and recovery companionship. Another of my revelations in the second round is that I can't do it all. He's got to have the volition and humility to ask for help, not just get caught and hope I fix it instead of get mad and leave. I'm doing my best to get this message across.

Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on March 23, 2014, 01:06:32 AM
It ends up on his shoulders. In nearly 450 days I have reduced it to one expression, you can have real sex in your life or you can have make believe sex in your life but you can't have both. Which would you prefer?
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on March 23, 2014, 04:49:36 PM
So what is different about this time?

Okay, so I’ve had a couple of days to really parse out an answer to that question.  The thing is we are in a radically different place than we were during the first reboot. My confidence is healthier. He knows the reboot, avoiding all PMO, makes the ED go away, allows him to feel connected. We are not in a “wait and see” state of mind.

We both understand the reboot works and that positive results are there for those that have the tenacity and intent to rewire and reconnect.

Is the commitment for change there?

My commitment to change is 100%. I will not live in a sexless marriage of disconnection. I am a living person that needs to be loved. I also need to love to thrive and grow. There will be change, because I will make decisions and will take action. (I feel like shouting “Can I get a witness?”)

He tells me his commitment to change is 100%. He’s made a list of things that he tells me he needs to succeed. (Instead of me running the show like last time, I’ve tossed the ball in his court for what he needs in the way of support.)

His list includes – leaving work on time, an accountability program on his computer, both of us going to bed together – every night and at a minimum cuddling, HONESTY and really connecting with each other every day.

He says he can’t be in charge of avoiding O if we do karezza because in his words, he can’t be trusted.

I think the fact his triggers are surrounded around work, combined with the fact I now work with him, will make a huge difference or be a horrible failure.

How can I trust him? Can I trust myself?

I felt like a complete rube when I found that giant stash of trash on his computer. I won’t lie, I was furious at myself for trusting him.

My trust is in crisis mode. It is main reason I need to journal and really appreciate the feedback from those that have lived through this journey.

I think the first time down the reboot path I was so desperate and so afraid he would just give up that I did everything to hack and rewire his broken reward system. He took me and what I offered for granted.

I think I helped so much I made his brief recovery, the first go around, seem easy. Can I trust myself to not repeat this mistake? He has identified his accountability point, what is mine?
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on March 23, 2014, 09:27:57 PM
That's a tough question. Your accountability is, first and foremost, to,yourself. You deserve a good life but you have to be realistic, every life has shortcomings, yours will too. Just don't take a path that will lead you to an endless cycle of disappointment. You need to drive a stake in the ground and not allow yourself to be pushed beyond the point you deem to be too much compromise on your part.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Gracie on March 24, 2014, 06:31:47 AM
SO I think the hard part is turning it all over to them.  Because then we have to trust them.  Trust that they think our marriage is worth it.  Trust them after we have just found out they stomped all over our trust.  Trust that they want to change.  Trust that they are being truthful now.  I kept hearing this is the truth and then some little thing we get added.  It was testing me I guess.  I was like good god just spit it all out, let my wound only be ripped open once!  But as he discovered more, the wound would either open and bleed or open and seep.  So difficult to stay focused.  So I became depressed. 

Anyway, we had the go to bed at same time rule and no getting up in the night.  Only bathroom.  If we couldn[t sleep, we turned on bedside light and read.  He got up one time and I had a fit.  Slept on the couch like in the porn past.  I woke him up.  He said see remote is over there.  I said you just put it there when ready to sleep.  No more....you must be in bed all night.  That gave me the most security.  Funny how it is just some things that are not negotiable.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on March 24, 2014, 08:06:45 PM
SO I think the hard part is turning it all over to them.  Because then we have to trust them.  Trust that they think our marriage is worth it.  Trust them after we have just found out they stomped all over our trust.  Trust that they want to change.  Trust that they are being truthful now.  I kept hearing this is the truth and then some little thing we get added.  It was testing me I guess.  I was like good god just spit it all out, let my wound only be ripped open once!  But as he discovered more, the wound would either open and bleed or open and seep.  So difficult to stay focused.  So I became depressed. 

Anyway, we had the go to bed at same time rule and no getting up in the night.  Only bathroom.  If we couldn[t sleep, we turned on bedside light and read.  He got up one time and I had a fit.  Slept on the couch like in the porn past.  I woke him up.  He said see remote is over there.  I said you just put it there when ready to sleep.  No more....you must be in bed all night.  That gave me the most security.  Funny how it is just some things that are not negotiable.

I'm so sorry you went through all that, Gracie, but I have to say you set boundaries like a BOSS! We can't throw fits all the time. Choosing what is important is really key. You did this really well. Staying the night in bed together is part of it.

Unfortunately, in my situation I'm the one that wanders out of the bedroom in the middle of the night. He never sleeps on the couch. My head has been in analysis mode and won't shut down. Also I cried a lot over the past sever years, so the bedroom isn't my favorite place. I've redecorated and it still hard sometimes. It has been six months since I woke up crying (I did this almost every day), but it is still hard to stay in bed.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Gracie on March 24, 2014, 10:25:08 PM
I understand about the bed thing.  There were times I did not want to be there either as we have a tv in the bedroom and he would watch on it when I was away.  It felt like "they" were in the room.  We now never have the tv on in the bedroom. 

I needed those things to be that way.  I needed us to have a routine to make me feel secure again even if we were struggling.  We had night time hugs and kisses and full body hugs.  Sometimes they were in enjoyable, sometimes they were part of the routine.  But, we did these things everyday.  We are able to come home for lunch and so we did that as well.  And we would talk and talk and talk.  Mostly me.  And I did research and looking for help all the time.  But the routine, no matter what was the biggest help to me.  I basically told him it has to be this way, or it won't work.  I did know what I needed somewhat to get from one day to the next.

I was not prepared for the dislike that he seemed to have.  There were no jokes or anything like that.  He would be angry very angry about the whole thing.  And then he began to hear me.  I even kept a journal with me to write in when I was frustrated during the day.  Several entries say, "he finally gets what I am saying."  It took an entire year before he really got it.  But now, it is easier.

I feel for you having this come back for a second go round.  I know this has to be tough.  Just know that there are people here that do care and we are great listeners.  Sorry this is so long.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on March 27, 2014, 06:43:14 AM
Depression. Let's talk about that for a moment.

First, I'm no psychologist, but I'm pretty sure I've experienced it and I'm working my way through it.

Depression is a funny word, because it sounds like a deep sea diver process for surfacing, but in reality it is like being at the bottom of the ocean. It is cold, dark and very lonely, except for the hagfish gnawing on a carcass. Hagfish are poor company, unless one is an abstract thinker.

I've been trying to depressurize, lighten the load, find more joy. I haven't broke the surface yet, but I can see daylight and the bubbles.

I don't know how I ended up on the ocean floor. I could say it was the slow death of intimacy, but it also because I jumped headfirst into it. I have to swim to the surface.

I need sunshine on my face, to love and be loved for who I am. I don't have the gills to live underwater.

We are sticking to the plan. Working on the marriage, loving, respect and connection.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on March 27, 2014, 01:38:42 PM
I've fought it all of my life. Amazingly, since stopping PMO I'm much, much better.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Jverhoye on March 27, 2014, 05:16:39 PM
You said something in a previous post about "not being able to do it all."  Sadly that is the message most women get when they grow up.  You have to do it all, be everything to everyone.  If there is one thing I've tried to convey to my wife during my recovery is that she doesn't have to try to do it all.  Nobody is capable of that anyway, and having that unrealistic expectation often leads to Depression and Disillusionment.  So, shifting that and giving yourself permission to be "enough" can be very helpful.  Also, the tendency for partners sometimes is to get lost in the shuffle because it's "his issue."  But it's important for SOs to continue to express their feelings and their needs.  Best of luck!
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on March 27, 2014, 08:44:51 PM
You said something in a previous post about "not being able to do it all."  Sadly that is the message most women get when they grow up.  You have to do it all, be everything to everyone.  If there is one thing I've tried to convey to my wife during my recovery is that she doesn't have to try to do it all.  Nobody is capable of that anyway, and having that unrealistic expectation often leads to Depression and Disillusionment.  So, shifting that and giving yourself permission to be "enough" can be very helpful.  Also, the tendency for partners sometimes is to get lost in the shuffle because it's "his issue."  But it's important for SOs to continue to express their feelings and their needs.  Best of luck!

I am more than enough. And here's the thing, when I was depressed I would have the most profound, deep feelings of worthlessness. Then a little voice inside would say something like I was too much of a narcissist to have that kind of thought. Seriously, I don't think I'm really even good at being depressed, it was too confusing. I know for a fact that I am strong, but this PMO thing just about broke me.

I am feeling much, much better. Even this latest stash thing, while it knocked the wind out of me, didn't put me on the ground.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Viper on March 27, 2014, 08:46:10 PM
Quote

Just to catch everyone up on the situation, I was at rock bottom sometime in July, last summer. I caught my husband PMO "in the act" as they say. Our marriage was running on fumes, sexless for over seven years. I had no idea it was PIED. I didn't know about P-addiction. He didn't either.

Welcome-
I will confess that I did not read your entire post because I could not wrap my head around your first paragraph.
A married couple with 7 years of no sex. Wow, I feel for you and this brings a new meaning to the marriage vow "for better or for worse"

I have to ask though if you don't mind, what is the age range of your husband?
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on March 28, 2014, 05:30:37 AM
Quote

Just to catch everyone up on the situation, I was at rock bottom sometime in July, last summer. I caught my husband PMO "in the act" as they say. Our marriage was running on fumes, sexless for over seven years. I had no idea it was PIED. I didn't know about P-addiction. He didn't either.

Welcome-
I will confess that I did not read your entire post because I could not wrap my head around your first paragraph.
A married couple with 7 years of no sex. Wow, I feel for you and this brings a new meaning to the marriage vow "for better or for worse"

I have to ask though if you don't mind, what is the age range of your husband?

He's 47, sliding into 48.
We haven't always been this way. Also, during that seven years, we both worked very hard on our careers.
We've been together since undergrad.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Viper on March 29, 2014, 12:03:55 AM

Quote
He's 47, sliding into 48.
We haven't always been this way. Also, during that seven years, we both worked very hard on our careers.
We've been together since undergrad.

Ok, so based on that, sounds like you were both ok
with not having sex.
I know someone close to me who is in a marriage like that. They really don't have sex and
they're ok with that until she gets mad at him. Then she'll bring up how they don't have
sex. So I'm always confused.

I think you came to the right place to confide and find the information to learn more
about what's going on. Because this is affecting more men than we think and the mainstream
media has not picked up on it.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Kaybee on April 03, 2014, 02:00:06 AM
I've just read your experience, and I am so impressed with you. Your husband is lucky to have a woman like you who is willing to stick by him and love him and encourage him to be a better man. Keep it up!  ;D 
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on April 03, 2014, 10:33:54 PM
I've just read your experience, and I am so impressed with you. Your husband is lucky to have a woman like you who is willing to stick by him and love him and encourage him to be a better man. Keep it up!  ;D

I'm impressed with anyone willing to take on the honesty required to reboot.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on April 03, 2014, 10:39:16 PM
Ok, I've been very busy. Sometimes busy is code for something else, but in this instance it means I haven't made the time to journal because I've been doing something else.

We continue to grow the business with some success.

He is very adamant that he will more fully explore the reboot. He's flatlining now, no libido. While I think this was concerning the time around, this time he understands that he is healing.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on April 03, 2014, 10:41:46 PM
Ok, I've been very busy. Sometimes busy is code for something else, but in this instance it means I haven't made the time to journal because I've been doing something else.

We continue to grow the business with some success.

He is very adamant that he will more fully explore the reboot. He's flatlining now, no libido. While I think this was concerning the time around, this time he understands that he is healing.
It sounds like he is taking responsibility for himself. That has to be a good thing,
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on April 04, 2014, 06:44:54 AM
Ok, I've been very busy. Sometimes busy is code for something else, but in this instance it means I haven't made the time to journal because I've been doing something else.

We continue to grow the business with some success.

He is very adamant that he will more fully explore the reboot. He's flatlining now, no libido. While I think this was concerning the time around, this time he understands that he is healing.
It sounds like he is taking responsibility for himself. That has to be a good thing,

I hope so. I feel kind of reluctant to give him too much praise at this point. He's got to deal with it, to be well and balanced for his own reasons, not for an ego boost "ata boy" from me.

Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on April 04, 2014, 07:26:18 AM
Ok, I've been very busy. Sometimes busy is code for something else, but in this instance it means I haven't made the time to journal because I've been doing something else.

We continue to grow the business with some success.

He is very adamant that he will more fully explore the reboot. He's flatlining now, no libido. While I think this was concerning the time around, this time he understands that he is healing.
It sounds like he is taking responsibility for himself. That has to be a good thing,

I hope so. I feel kind of reluctant to give him too much praise at this point. He's got to deal with it, to be well and balanced for his own reasons, not for an ego boost "ata boy" from me.
Ultimately, he has to do it for the right reasons; because it's the right way to act within his relationship with you and because it's the right way to act for his own sake.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on April 04, 2014, 10:07:45 PM

Quote
He's 47, sliding into 48.
We haven't always been this way. Also, during that seven years, we both worked very hard on our careers.
We've been together since undergrad.

Ok, so based on that, sounds like you were both ok
with not having sex.
I know someone close to me who is in a marriage like that. They really don't have sex and
they're ok with that until she gets mad at him. Then she'll bring up how they don't have
sex. So I'm always confused.

I think you came to the right place to confide and find the information to learn more
about what's going on. Because this is affecting more men than we think and the mainstream
media has not picked up on it.

I don't think I was ok with not having sex. I think I endured it.

I cried myself to sleep during those seven years. I woke up in tears. I felt helpless to change. I blamed myself. It didn't just feel like rejection. I can take rejection and move on. This was a mind-f@$k. It was like a lifetime prison sentence and the phantom itch in an amputated limb, all at the same time.

I couldn't breach the subject without drying my tears with brick of indifference. Perhaps this is the "getting mad" you see in the relationship you mention.

I got no comfort from him for what I was going through. He would go dark when I tried to talk about it, gaslight me, tell me I was just emotional (code for crazy). In the later years he would shame me by saying it was my problem for wanting intimacy with my husband because he "was perfectly happy". Ergo - there's something wrong with me.

I didn't think I would ever have sex again. I was made to feel inadequate. As patient and kind as I have tried to be for him and us during the reboot, I really hate him for that. I hate myself for letting it happen, twice now.

I don't have the luxury of living in that past anymore. I need connection and intimacy. I need the respect that comes with liking oneself.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on April 04, 2014, 11:17:15 PM
As any reader can tell from my last post, I'm not feeling the love here at home. I need to have some toe-cracking congenial relations with the old man, but he's flat lining and reworking the reward system.

It is a subjective thing, these feelings, reflected in the eyes and immeasurable. I can't reduce it to a cost-benefit analysis or fit it into a formula. It is an itch and pain no one can feel but me.

I've been sleeping on the couch again, restless and unable to still my thoughts next to his living corpse. It simply stinks to be part of a couple that is unbalanced in libido.

The partner with the lowest drive gets the final say in the matter, at least that is what I have read. I don't want to read right now.

Logically, I understand he has a lack of drive I can't understand. He's working the reboot and I believe, for no other reason than I want to believe it. He isn't talking about it, sharing his concern, if he has any. He's not jittery or abrupt with me. He's just blah.

I'm working tomorrow with him at the office. He wants me there with him so he "isn't temped to visit the computer". What a compliment that is, being a presence that can squash the P craves. I know I should be appreciative that he is trying, but he needs to try a little faster.

I'm frustrated and probably going to have some chocolate and try to sleep in the bed instead of the couch.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on April 04, 2014, 11:24:39 PM
As any reader can tell from my last post, I'm not feeling the love here at home. I need to have some toe-cracking congenial relations with the old man, but he's flat lining and reworking the reward system.

It is a subjective thing, these feelings, reflected in the eyes and immeasurable. I can't reduce it to a cost-benefit analysis or fit it into a formula. It is an itch and pain no one can feel but me.

I've been sleeping on the couch again, restless and unable to still my thoughts next to his living corpse. It simply stinks to be part of a couple that is unbalanced in libido.

The partner with the lowest drive gets the final say in the matter, at least that is what I have read. I don't want to read right now.

Logically, I understand he has a lack of drive I can't understand. He's working the reboot and I believe, for no other reason than I want to believe it. He isn't talking about it, sharing his concern, if he has any. He's not jittery or abrupt with me. He's just blah.

I'm working tomorrow with him at the office. He wants me there with him so he "isn't temped to visit the computer". What a compliment that is, being a presence that can squash the P craves. I know I should be appreciative that he is trying, but he needs to try a little faster.

I'm frustrated and probably going to have some chocolate and try to sleep in the bed instead of the couch.
I think that all of this points up how badly porn addiction harms the innocent partner. I hope that he makes rapid progress; for the sake of everyone involved.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on April 04, 2014, 11:46:57 PM
As any reader can tell from my last post, I'm not feeling the love here at home. I need to have some toe-cracking congenial relations with the old man, but he's flat lining and reworking the reward system.

It is a subjective thing, these feelings, reflected in the eyes and immeasurable. I can't reduce it to a cost-benefit analysis or fit it into a formula. It is an itch and pain no one can feel but me.

I've been sleeping on the couch again, restless and unable to still my thoughts next to his living corpse. It simply stinks to be part of a couple that is unbalanced in libido.

The partner with the lowest drive gets the final say in the matter, at least that is what I have read. I don't want to read right now.

Logically, I understand he has a lack of drive I can't understand. He's working the reboot and I believe, for no other reason than I want to believe it. He isn't talking about it, sharing his concern, if he has any. He's not jittery or abrupt with me. He's just blah.

I'm working tomorrow with him at the office. He wants me there with him so he "isn't temped to visit the computer". What a compliment that is, being a presence that can squash the P craves. I know I should be appreciative that he is trying, but he needs to try a little faster.

I'm frustrated and probably going to have some chocolate and try to sleep in the bed instead of the couch.
I think that all of this points up how badly porn addiction harms the innocent partner. I hope that he makes rapid progress; for the sake of everyone involved.

If I hadn't put up with this for so long, maybe it wouldn't be so ingrained. That thought has crossed my mind too, although maybe it is part of the problem.

I didn't know about PIED or PMO, but I did know something was wrong. Ignorance doesn't make me innocent. I own a 50% share in the success and failures of my marriage. Just being accountable here.

I really mean it this time, I'm going to sleep. Things may look differently in the morning.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on April 05, 2014, 12:19:06 AM
At least he's putting forth effort. Don't let it embitter you. No one wins when that happens.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on April 05, 2014, 03:24:29 PM
Dragged out of bed and put in a six hour "half day" of work. Accomplished a lot.

I let him know I'm feeling a little frustrated and unimportant in his life right now. He was affirming, but in a distant way. He helped me clean house and got the kids up and moving. This is an improvement because in addition to working in the office for free, I was also supposed to clean, cook and wrangle the kids.

I'm not bitter, just impatient.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on April 05, 2014, 03:51:34 PM
Dragged out of bed and put in a six hour "half day" of work. Accomplished a lot.

I let him know I'm feeling a little frustrated and unimportant in his life right now. He was affirming, but in a distant way. He helped me clean house and got the kids up and moving. This is an improvement because in addition to working in the office for free, I was also supposed to clean, cook and wrangle the kids.

I'm not bitter, just impatient.
I have the impression that he's, at least trying.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Gabe Deem on April 05, 2014, 03:52:14 PM
@ SO Reboot Partner
Quote
I'm not bitter, just impatient.

It is completely understandable for you to feel that way. You are doing a fantastic job as his partner and I hope one day he sees it. PMO is very good at blinding a man to the beautiful little things in life. So don't expect much appreciation for small things at first. Hopefully as he reboots he will express more appreciation and joy towards you and your help.

Just wanted to say keep truckin you're doing great.. A man couldn't ask for more.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on April 05, 2014, 06:59:13 PM
Thanks Gabe and LTE, You and others are why I journal here. Thank you for keeping me reasonable and honest. It means a lot.

Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Jverhoye on April 05, 2014, 10:44:27 PM
What you have to endure as a partner is unbelievably challenging.  Navigating your way through it requires so much patience and vulnerability on your part, and most people have no idea what you go through.  You are to be commended, SO!
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on April 06, 2014, 01:01:19 AM
What you have to endure as a partner is unbelievably challenging.  Navigating your way through it requires so much patience and vulnerability on your part, and most people have no idea what you go through.  You are to be commended, SO!

I really appreciate that. I know I'm really in a grumbling rut right now. I can step back and understand that it doesn't accomplish much, but it doesn't stop me from complaining.

I know I'm being a big baby here. I am thankful for your kind indulgence.

I miss my man and I want him to succeed at this.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on April 06, 2014, 06:59:21 PM
Okay, I'm tired of this dragon riding me, time to take the reins and get somewhere.

I can mope and schlep through this or I can get it going on. Husband will be what he needs to be. If successful, will he want to be with someone drag-ashing in the past and down? No. If unsuccessful, do I need to be down? No, I do not.

I got a lot accomplished today. This makes me feel good. I have a lot more to do, but I can't worry about that now. It will get done, just not right now. No one thinks I'm behind on anything but me.

I have a day of "beauty maintenance" planned next Saturday. I'm going to meet a friend for lunch afterwards and we will talk about everything other than this.

I am going to take advantage of opportunities for kindness this week. I will be a peace maker instead of wrapped up in my own problems.

I am not going to work late. It only makes me tired and anxious. I want to have dinner as a family.

I will not sleep on the couch.



Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Jverhoye on April 06, 2014, 07:39:16 PM
I love the attitude and the plans!
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on April 10, 2014, 06:07:13 AM
I had one of those days, you know the type, everything thing I touched turned to crap.

So my frustration, wrapped in trust issues, is just not going away. This morning we talked. He's been struggling with anxiety and not talking about it. I'm struggling with the trust/frustration thing. It is a bad combination for the relationship ju-ju.

Good news is we have a plan to thwart the anxiety and the trust issues.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: fcjl8 on April 10, 2014, 03:49:24 PM
I'm sorry you had a difficult day.

I just want to say my patience and love win the battle.

I understand his anxiety, and I sure sympathize with your trust and frustration feelings. You two are together and talking this makes all possible. Hope.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on April 11, 2014, 08:47:36 PM
Something I wrote in an earlier post "I don't have the luxury of living in that past anymore. I need connection and intimacy. I need the respect that comes with liking oneself."

We had a very open conversation this week and that was the theme. We both need this, to like ourselves, be comfortable with who we are and be intimate together.

I'm still struggling with trusting myself and him, but we are still trying here. None of this is easy. I think the first go around I really burred all my trust issues. That is a dangerous game when there's a relapse. I feel like I have forgiven, but I can't forget. It is just very hard to walk into a buzzsaw twice in a lifetime. I don't like pain, especially that kind.

So tomorrow is the big "day of beauty maintenance". We are letting the kids go to the movies and skate with some friends, so we will have the afternoon to do our thing and try to reconnect with some karezza.

It is so difficult to be vulnerable. I know he feels it too. I've been standoffish, still ending up on the couch. I am trying. I just rationalize reasons to not be in the bedroom.

I haven't been sleeping well, which is a worry. During the first reboot, I slept like a baby, deeply and without concern when we were bonding. I'm back to the anxiousness that I felt in the dark years, not the worst of those days, but enough of a reminder that I feel desperate to avoid them again.

I described my feelings to him like a snake that eats its own tail, never really disappearing, just in perpetual existence. I want this feeling gone. I need reassurance and he needs it too.

I hope tomorrow is a another positive step towards wellness for both of us.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Jverhoye on April 11, 2014, 09:17:34 PM
Sending you good thoughts for tomorrow!
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Gabe Deem on April 11, 2014, 09:20:42 PM
@ SO Reboot Partner

Quote
I'm still struggling with trusting myself and him, but we are still trying here. None of this is easy.

You have gone through some very painful times, the fact that you're here and fighting this battle is reason enough to trust yourself. Trusting him will take time, just how it goes. Time can heal, I just hope it does. You have been strong enough to get to this point, so I believe that you are strong enough to get through whatever life throws your way. Keep your head up. There are many people on here who have read your story and are rooting for you.

Remember this addiction is in his brain, and is a result of his choices... not yours. So continue to have talks with him, be open and honest with him. In the end it will be all on him though.

Are you two in this together? Yes. Can you responsible for his actions? No. You seem to be doing a phenomenal job of supporting him.

Quote
So tomorrow is the big "day of beauty maintenance"

I hope you enjoy it and get some relaxing in. You deserve it.

Quote
I hope tomorrow is a another positive step towards wellness for both of us.

The Nation hopes the same for you!
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on April 13, 2014, 03:29:37 PM
Yesterday was a good day.

After breakfast as a family, he helped climb "laundry mountain" before and while I was off getting my hair done. He made some homemade sauce, a lasagna for us and an extra for friends in the afternoon.

I hauled the kids off to their social engagement after cleaning the business office and prepared a few things for next week.

Once alone back home, we watched a little TV together and headed off to the bedroom. I felt pretty relaxed, but this was the first time in a few weeks? since we have been intimate.

Perhaps because it was too early for bed, all the pets (there are three) had to come and "wish us luck", get a belly rub and an ear scritched from each of us. Then they just left to race around and chase each other.

There wasn't any P or expectation of O, no PIED, no chaser, no scented candles, no cultural definitions of romance, no toys, no clothes, no blue pills, no demands, no urgency, no frustration, no worries, no guilt, no shame, no performance anxiety, no ghosts of past hurts. It was just us, together.

We just kissed and touched. Our bodies responded to the ordinary bliss, which is extraordinary.

Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Gabe Deem on April 13, 2014, 04:39:49 PM
@ SORP

Quote
There wasn't any P or expectation of O, no PIED, no chaser, no scented candles, no cultural definitions of romance, no toys, no clothes, no blue pills, no demands, no urgency, no frustration, no worries, no guilt, no shame, no performance anxiety, no ghosts of past hurts. It was just us, together.

We just kissed and touched. Our bodies responded to the ordinary bliss, which is extraordinary.

Just how it should be, awesome.

Just want to say I am so happy for you, and I wish you many many more experiences/days like this one. Keep being strong
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on April 14, 2014, 07:16:44 AM
@ SORP

Quote
There wasn't any P or expectation of O, no PIED, no chaser, no scented candles, no cultural definitions of romance, no toys, no clothes, no blue pills, no demands, no urgency, no frustration, no worries, no guilt, no shame, no performance anxiety, no ghosts of past hurts. It was just us, together.

We just kissed and touched. Our bodies responded to the ordinary bliss, which is extraordinary.

Just how it should be, awesome.

Just want to say I am so happy for you, and I wish you many many more experiences/days like this one. Keep being strong

Thanks for your support while I throw mud at the wall and see what sticks.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: fcjl8 on April 17, 2014, 08:12:42 PM
Very cool how things are progressing for you and your H!! Nice story.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Bibbity on April 18, 2014, 03:12:39 PM
SO Reboot Partner I have read your journal and you are an amazing woman!  I am a wife of a PMO addict as well and can identify with so much that you have said.  Especially the 'enduring the sexless marriage' part.  Gosh that was tough for someone with a high sex drive.  I think about all the time wasted and it makes me feel pretty depressed if I dwell too long.  So of course I try not to.  I went to a church service last weekend with a friend (I'm not religious but some days I will try anything!) and the theme was faith, then I saw a YouTube video on faith from a spiritual teacher I subscribe to, so I knew it was a message I needed to hear.  Faith is when you believe something without really knowing it.  It's a choice.  I think for me every day is a leap of faith.  Faith that my husband has given up his habit for good, faith that he always found me desirable and faith that he really loves and cares for me.  Before this I questioned everything.  Even though our relationship has done a 180 and our sex life is wonderful the past year has been like an open wound that I've been trying to heal.  I don't even think I realized how hurt I was until we got our closeness back and I saw what was missing all that time.

Anyway good luck and know that you are not alone  :)
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on April 18, 2014, 08:06:38 PM
SO Reboot Partner I have read your journal and you are an amazing woman!  I am a wife of a PMO addict as well and can identify with so much that you have said.  Especially the 'enduring the sexless marriage' part.  Gosh that was tough for someone with a high sex drive.  I think about all the time wasted and it makes me feel pretty depressed if I dwell too long.  So of course I try not to.  I went to a church service last weekend with a friend (I'm not religious but some days I will try anything!) and the theme was faith, then I saw a YouTube video on faith from a spiritual teacher I subscribe to, so I knew it was a message I needed to hear.  Faith is when you believe something without really knowing it.  It's a choice.  I think for me every day is a leap of faith.  Faith that my husband has given up his habit for good, faith that he always found me desirable and faith that he really loves and cares for me.  Before this I questioned everything.  Even though our relationship has done a 180 and our sex life is wonderful the past year has been like an open wound that I've been trying to heal.  I don't even think I realized how hurt I was until we got our closeness back and I saw what was missing all that time.

Anyway good luck and know that you are not alone  :)

You are too kind. Thank you for your very needed good wishes and sharing the success of your reboot experience. I haven't checked lately, because this has been a busy week, but I hope you find the time to post your full success story sometime. (Please let me know when you do, I want to read it!)

I try not to dwell too much, although it may seem here that I do. Confining my thoughts to this journal really helps. The camaraderie is also priceless during recovery.  :)

Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on April 23, 2014, 12:08:49 AM
Well, things are going well. We're "cuddling" and acting like a healthy couple again. Work life is good and growing at a brisk pace. He's connecting more with me and others.

The PIED is fading, but he expressed concern about 'reliability'.

My response was "It's a penis, not a geyser in Yellowstone. Nobody but me is taking a bus tour to see it. I'll wait for the show."

We are more relaxed about this whole PIED thing. I think that helps.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Rainiegirl on April 23, 2014, 12:32:00 PM
I think it's a bit funny how men can have this kind of anxiety with their wives. If we are willing to stick by them through all this than what's a few failed attempts to us. I enjoy the intimacy more then the end result. Realy what could be more intimate than working together through failures as well as successes. It sounds like you two are doing well.  :)
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on May 01, 2014, 10:26:54 PM
Stress, Stress, STRESS!!!!

The past week or so has been one big bag of stress at work.

Tomorrow I will be dropping the kiddos off at a skate party. THREE HOURS of alone time for ADULT ENTERTAINMENT has been marked on the calendar with a firecracker sticker.

I am so sick and tired of being serious and worried about this whole thing. I just want to bang and laugh from my belly and feel something other than this toxic curiosity about what is going on with him down there or up in his head.

Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on May 02, 2014, 08:32:23 PM
Emptied the house of kids and he's sitting in front of the TV. No interest. No investment.

Three hours of nuthin'

Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Gabe Deem on May 03, 2014, 02:04:53 AM
@ SO Reboot Partner
Quote
Emptied the house of kids and he's sitting in front of the TV. No interest. No investment.

Three hours of nuthin'

I am so very sorry to hear that. I hope the night ended a little better then it started. It is typical for guys to zombie out in front of the TV, and he may even be replacing one addiction with some other form of entertainment all while being oblivious to it.

I just want to encourage you to continue to be strong. We are all pulling for your husband to snap out of it. Just know you are not alone and we are here for you.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on May 03, 2014, 05:12:06 PM
@ SO Reboot Partner
Quote
Emptied the house of kids and he's sitting in front of the TV. No interest. No investment.

Three hours of nuthin'

I am so very sorry to hear that. I hope the night ended a little better then it started. It is typical for guys to zombie out in front of the TV, and he may even be replacing one addiction with some other form of entertainment all while being oblivious to it.

I just want to encourage you to continue to be strong. We are all pulling for your husband to snap out of it. Just know you are not alone and we are here for you.

Thank you for all the good thoughts and your kind indulgence for me being a selfish cry baby.

I did kind of realize something, though, he's been on this second reboot since the end of March, with very little rewiring during that time. It has been pretty hit and miss, unlike during the first go around.

Libido is DOA right now. He's flat-lining, with the exception of a couple of "surges" during the 30+ day time frame.

Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on May 03, 2014, 06:09:35 PM
What do we really want and need from our sexual relationship?

I think this is a topic I need to discuss with the old man. I know, I know, we've talked about it before, but people (I'm looking at me) tend to add and subtract discussed goals/objectives to meet certain variable levels of mood and laziness. For example:

I have, on more than one occasion, expressed a level of frustration in his performance, YET did not jump in there to grab the bull by the horns. I complain about his lack of initiative while ignoring my own.

I think I have performance expectations that really don't matter. Truthfully, I love this man. He is trying. My issue has always been the disconnection and he's really putting forth an effort. (I'm typing this while he's starting a fire to grill and I'm waiting for a pot to boil for corn.)

These journal entries are very helpful in not only expressing my thoughts, but keeping my thinking in check with who I am as a wife and lover. It is true that when we point a finger at someone, four fingers point back at us.

Hum.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on May 06, 2014, 09:59:30 PM
Still Here, taking it day by day.

We are busy at work. Tonight I made him take me out to a late dinner.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on May 06, 2014, 11:15:31 PM
@ SO Reboot Partner
Quote
Emptied the house of kids and he's sitting in front of the TV. No interest. No investment.

Three hours of nuthin'

I am so very sorry to hear that. I hope the night ended a little better then it started. It is typical for guys to zombie out in front of the TV, and he may even be replacing one addiction with some other form of entertainment all while being oblivious to it.

I just want to encourage you to continue to be strong. We are all pulling for your husband to snap out of it. Just know you are not alone and we are here for you.

Thank you for all the good thoughts and your kind indulgence for me being a selfish cry baby.

I did kind of realize something, though, he's been on this second reboot since the end of March, with very little rewiring during that time. It has been pretty hit and miss, unlike during the first go around.

Libido is DOA right now. He's flat-lining, with the exception of a couple of "surges" during the 30+ day time frame.
You seem to be keeping a level head about all of this. Don't give up on him, don't give up on you.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on May 07, 2014, 02:12:05 AM
@ SO Reboot Partner
Quote
Emptied the house of kids and he's sitting in front of the TV. No interest. No investment.

Three hours of nuthin'

I am so very sorry to hear that. I hope the night ended a little better then it started. It is typical for guys to zombie out in front of the TV, and he may even be replacing one addiction with some other form of entertainment all while being oblivious to it.

I just want to encourage you to continue to be strong. We are all pulling for your husband to snap out of it. Just know you are not alone and we are here for you.

Thank you for all the good thoughts and your kind indulgence for me being a selfish cry baby.

I did kind of realize something, though, he's been on this second reboot since the end of March, with very little rewiring during that time. It has been pretty hit and miss, unlike during the first go around.

Libido is DOA right now. He's flat-lining, with the exception of a couple of "surges" during the 30+ day time frame.
You seem to be keeping a level head about all of this. Don't give up on him, don't give up on you.

Seem and reality might be two different things! It is helpful to vent and rant, but when I read some of my own writing a few days later, I think "what a whiner! the guy is trying".

Being married is like dancing the Tango, the music changes tempo and somebody is going to get kicked at some point. We have to be synchronized or take a tumble.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Bibbity on May 07, 2014, 12:27:41 PM
Quote
It is helpful to vent and rant, but when I read some of my own writing a few days later, I think "what a whiner! the guy is trying".

Let's just say you are a lot nicer than I have been!  I mean yes he is trying but you have every right to "whine"....aka FEEL ;)
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on May 07, 2014, 02:14:55 PM
Quote
It is helpful to vent and rant, but when I read some of my own writing a few days later, I think "what a whiner! the guy is trying".

Let's just say you are a lot nicer than I have been!  I mean yes he is trying but you have every right to "whine"....aka FEEL ;)


I don't enjoy feeling like crap by reliving a theatrical past I don't want to repeat. It makes no sense to me. Sure I have to right to be miserable, but I don't have to feel miserable.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Bibbity on May 07, 2014, 02:51:42 PM
I didn't enjoy feeling like crap either.  I guess for me it was important to just get my emotions out.  I didn't want to keep feeling those emotions.  The more I resisted feeling like crap, the crappier I would end up feeling.  Maybe my issues are not your issues but for me I kept feeling like I had to be the ever loving supportive spouse and constantly be in my masculine.  What I really wanted was to just be in my feminine where I was not in control of everything or "powering through" stuff.  That, for me, was exhausting.  I needed him to take care of me too.  I never judged myself for anything I was going through.

Everyone has their own path and you are doing great!
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on May 07, 2014, 06:41:07 PM
I didn't enjoy feeling like crap either.  I guess for me it was important to just get my emotions out.  I didn't want to keep feeling those emotions.  The more I resisted feeling like crap, the crappier I would end up feeling.  Maybe my issues are not your issues but for me I kept feeling like I had to be the ever loving supportive spouse and constantly be in my masculine.  What I really wanted was to just be in my feminine where I was not in control of everything or "powering through" stuff.  That, for me, was exhausting.  I needed him to take care of me too.  I never judged myself for anything I was going through.

Everyone has their own path and you are doing great!

I get where you're coming from and don't take what I say today as where I am 100% of the time. I've learned that he and I both are evolving creatures here. There are good and bad days.

I think my journal definitely shows I can let the emotions run free and wild, I just don't always like that a few days later. Control much SORP? Meh, probably.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Jverhoye on May 07, 2014, 09:47:24 PM
Personally I don't see whining or ranting in your journal.  To me, it's all part of the "processing" process. 
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on May 07, 2014, 10:12:12 PM
Personally I don't see whining or ranting in your journal.  To me, it's all part of the "processing" process.
I concur.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on May 08, 2014, 05:34:42 PM
I think I have mentioned this once, but this week's stresses have brought it back into play some old wounds. I am pretty sure my husband was relying heavily on his former assistant for emotional support. He spoke of her constantly, her kids, her hobbies, likes and dislikes, the cute haircut she got, blah-blah-blah. He would tell his friends (in front of me) how lucky he was to have such a competent "smoking hot" assistant. Yeah, that one made me leave the room and cry.

Not an excuse, but the job and work environment before was like breathing molten lead. Toxic, painful and abusive - mainly because of one individual principle (not his assistant) in the organization. A lot has changed.

Since opening our own office, he can't rely on his assistant - it's just me now. I'm not as experienced and I have a ton of annoying questions. It has been frustrating for him (15+ yrs experience vs 3 months in an assistant). I have a skill set outside of this endeavor, with a little overlap, but still - I'm on a learning curve.

He's been under the delusion she will come work for him when operations allow for her salary demands. (I thought this was funny when he actually said it to me because I made 3x her salary in my last job - one of the tiny things I would cling to to keep from being overwhelmed by his opinion of her greatness.)

Anyway, I've been pretty glum about the inevitable comparisons. He's been quietly judgmental and very stingy with the encouragement with regards to my performance. It has been very difficult for me, used to being the top dog in my career work environment, to be so disregarded, found wanting in the final analysis.

For years I've endured how fantastic, good-looking and reliable this other person has been. I'm not the jealous type, but I'm not keen on being beaten about the face and neck with the positive attributes of others either. I've always suspected an emotional affair, one sided - on his part. This week I think the spell was broken.

He snapped at me a week or so ago when I called (his request) at the old office to see if she could do some very specific work. She played coy with me and frankly, I could do the work, so I kinda let it go and said I would do it. He was furious with me.

He contacted her directly and supposedly she was going to do the project. Well, that fell through.  She stopped by the office and played him right in front of me. When I say "played him" I mean she was very aware of his smitten state - Problem is she wasn't delivering the work load (mostly because she doesn't work for him anymore, also I suspect she enjoyed being fought over).

I got the work done and corrected her errors on what little she did do.

So he's moped around a bit, but I think he's come to the realization I'm not temporary; I'm not playing games. If we as a couple don't work out, trust me I can get a job outside his office. I'm doing this now for the family and the future.

Anyway, he actually complemented me and my work today. It is a big deal.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on May 08, 2014, 06:05:06 PM
I think I have mentioned this once, but this week's stresses have brought it back into play some old wounds. I am pretty sure my husband was relying heavily on his former assistant for emotional support. He spoke of her constantly, her kids, her hobbies, likes and dislikes, the cute haircut she got, blah-blah-blah. He would tell his friends (in front of me) how lucky he was to have such a competent "smoking hot" assistant. Yeah, that one made me leave the room and cry.

Not an excuse, but the job and work environment before was like breathing molten lead. Toxic, painful and abusive - mainly because of one individual principle (not his assistant) in the organization. A lot has changed.

Since opening our own office, he can't rely on his assistant - it's just me now. I'm not as experienced and I have a ton of annoying questions. It has been frustrating for him (15+ yrs experience vs 3 months in an assistant). I have a skill set outside of this endeavor, with a little overlap, but still - I'm on a learning curve.

He's been under the delusion she will come work for him when operations allow for her salary demands. (I thought this was funny when he actually said it to me because I made 3x her salary in my last job - one of the tiny things I would cling to to keep from being overwhelmed by his opinion of her greatness.)

Anyway, I've been pretty glum about the inevitable comparisons. He's been quietly judgmental and very stingy with the encouragement with regards to my performance. It has been very difficult for me, used to being the top dog in my career work environment, to be so disregarded, found wanting in the final analysis.

For years I've endured how fantastic, good-looking and reliable this other person has been. I'm not the jealous type, but I'm not keen on being beaten about the face and neck with the positive attributes of others either. I've always suspected an emotional affair, one sided - on his part. This week I think the spell was broken.

He snapped at me a week or so ago when I called (his request) at the old office to see if she could do some very specific work. She played coy with me and frankly, I could do the work, so I kinda let it go and said I would do it. He was furious with me.

He contacted her directly and supposedly she was going to do the project. Well, that fell through.  She stopped by the office and played him right in front of me. When I say "played him" I mean she was very aware of his smitten state - Problem is she wasn't delivering the work load (mostly because she doesn't work for him anymore, also I suspect she enjoyed being fought over).

I got the work done and corrected her errors on what little she did do.

So he's moped around a bit, but I think he's come to the realization I'm not temporary; I'm not playing games. If we as a couple don't work out, trust me I can get a job outside his office. I'm doing this now for the family and the future.

Anyway, he actually complemented me and my work today. It is a big deal.
Before overcoming the P&M issues my attitude towards women was a bit possessive. I've been moving in the right direction for years, but I put the finishing touches on that progress when I rebooted. Hopefully your SO will do the same.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on May 09, 2014, 06:36:35 AM

Before overcoming the P&M issues my attitude towards women was a bit possessive. I've been moving in the right direction for years, but I put the finishing touches on that progress when I rebooted. Hopefully your SO will do the same.

He has been possessive with her. I think he tried to control the outward expression of that possessiveness, not always well. But this week's snafu, as tame as I made it seem in my narrative, was kind of embarrassing.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on May 09, 2014, 06:55:15 AM

Before overcoming the P&M issues my attitude towards women was a bit possessive. I've been moving in the right direction for years, but I put the finishing touches on that progress when I rebooted. Hopefully your SO will do the same.

He has been possessive with her. I think he tried to control the outward expression of that possessiveness, not always well. But this week's snafu, as tame as I made it seem in my narrative, was kind of embarrassing.
Hopefully he will leave this sort of behavior behind as then effects of rebooting accrue.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on May 09, 2014, 10:57:12 PM
I went to the doctor today. I have not been feeling well due to the annual pollen poisoning and near asthmatic symptoms.  Allergies. If anyone would like some, I have plenty to spare. If you wait a couple of weeks, I can throw in a pound of mosquitoes. They are free-range and grown locally.

Every year I fall into the same trap. I really love spring. New growth and all the green replacing the grey dead colors just inspires me. I forget how much Mother Nature hates me, how my body over-reacts to the pollen. I forget to employ the special cocktail of half witchcraft and half science that allows me to breathe somewhat normally. Wild Honey in herbal tea followed by a oddly shaped pill and shot of steroids up the nose before bed - if my chest feels tight, I take a little puff or two on an inhaler  - yaaas, sweet comfort.

In years past I would let myself get very sick at times before seeking help. Thinking I could kick it myself, I kicked myself.  Allergies can turn into respiratory infections and once pneumonia when left to beat down the defenses.

I am proud of myself for not waiting this year.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on May 10, 2014, 12:25:35 AM
I went to the doctor today. I have not been feeling well due to the annual pollen poisoning and near asthmatic symptoms.  Allergies. If anyone would like some, I have plenty to spare. If you wait a couple of weeks, I can throw in a pound of mosquitoes. They are free-range and grown locally.

Every year I fall into the same trap. I really love spring. New growth and all the green replacing the grey dead colors just inspires me. I forget how much Mother Nature hates me, how my body over-reacts to the pollen. I forget to employ the special cocktail of half witchcraft and half science that allows me to breathe somewhat normally. Wild Honey in herbal tea followed by a oddly shaped pill and shot of steroids up the nose before bed - if my chest feels tight, I take a little puff or two on an inhaler  - yaaas, sweet comfort.

In years past I would let myself get very sick at times before seeking help. Thinking I could kick it myself, I kicked myself.  Allergies can turn into respiratory infections and once pneumonia when left to beat down the defenses.

I am proud of myself for not waiting this year.
Allergies are awful. I've known people that were terribly afflicted with them. I've heard that an allergist can work wonders with antigen therapy.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on May 10, 2014, 06:47:05 AM

Allergies are awful. I've known people that were terribly afflicted with them. I've heard that an allergist can work wonders with antigen therapy.

I slept! I didn't wake up struggling to breathe last night and I'm ready to take on the world, right after I finish sneezing.

I've done the allergy shots that look like 12,000 mile used motor oil (I'm allergic to everything), but I haven't really investigated the newer therapies.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on May 10, 2014, 07:39:59 AM

Allergies are awful. I've known people that were terribly afflicted with them. I've heard that an allergist can work wonders with antigen therapy.

I slept! I didn't wake up struggling to breathe last night and I'm ready to take on the world, right after I finish sneezing.

I've done the allergy shots that look like 12,000 mile used motor oil (I'm allergic to everything), but I haven't really investigated the newer therapies.
Maybe they can help in ways that they couldn't before.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on May 11, 2014, 10:33:55 PM
Yummy dinner tonight -

Grilled boneless / skinless Chicken marinaded in:
Handful of chopped candied Ginger
sprinkle of ground Ginger
teaspoon minced garlic
1/4 cup olive oil
1/2 cup soy sauce
3 tablespoons brown sugar
Smooch of Maker's Mark (smoky taste)
chopped fresh parsley

Marinade in bags in Fridge / grill with veggie kabobs, squash, onion, mushroom, peppers

It builds self esteem to feed yourself well!
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on May 11, 2014, 10:45:04 PM
Yummy dinner tonight -

Grilled boneless / skinless Chicken marinaded in:
Handful of chopped candied Ginger
sprinkle of ground Ginger
teaspoon minced garlic
1/4 cup olive oil
1/2 cup soy sauce
3 tablespoons brown sugar
Smooch of Maker's Mark (smoky taste)
chopped fresh parsley

Marinade in bags in Fridge / grill with veggie kabobs, squash, onion, mushroom, peppers

It builds self esteem to feed yourself well!
And me on a diet. :).
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Deuce26 on May 12, 2014, 08:59:46 AM
Yummy dinner tonight -

Grilled boneless / skinless Chicken marinaded in:
Handful of chopped candied Ginger
sprinkle of ground Ginger
teaspoon minced garlic
1/4 cup olive oil
1/2 cup soy sauce
3 tablespoons brown sugar
Smooch of Maker's Mark (smoky taste)
chopped fresh parsley

Marinade in bags in Fridge / grill with veggie kabobs, squash, onion, mushroom, peppers

It builds self esteem to feed yourself well!
And me on a diet. :).
And me on a cleanse.....grrrr....
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on May 13, 2014, 06:56:51 AM
And me on a diet. :).

And me on a cleanse.....grrrr....

Good food and good sex - isn't it funny how our attitudes change for these things as we age? Also how over-indulgence can harm our ability to enjoy them? I'm being only casually serious here.

I just turned the corner on "Fiddy" (50) a few months ago. I got my AARP card and an engraved formal invitation from my doctor for an exploratory colonoscopy (with my choice of chamber music or house blues). Add to that the extra-special good-time fun of marriage issues and one has a tangy mid-life marinade fit for grilling on a pit of despair.

But even in the face of these indignities you both remind me to laugh at myself, not take it too seriously, to savor life, practice prudence and love with abandon simultaneously. It is a gymnastic feat that has taken me decades to discover and your continued comments to define.

Keep journaling your thoughts. I need to stay focused on the prize.


Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Bibbity on May 13, 2014, 12:14:46 PM

Allergies are awful. I've known people that were terribly afflicted with them. I've heard that an allergist can work wonders with antigen therapy.

I slept! I didn't wake up struggling to breathe last night and I'm ready to take on the world, right after I finish sneezing.

I've done the allergy shots that look like 12,000 mile used motor oil (I'm allergic to everything), but I haven't really investigated the newer therapies.

My allergies were BAD until I went to a naturopathic DR who told me I needed a diet overhaul for a few months.  The diet regulated my out of whack hormones and got rid of my seasonal allergies!  My husbands allergies and asthma flair up if he consumes dairy (he did the shots too but they didn't do anything).  I am a firm believer in diet being a catalyst for illness.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Deuce26 on May 13, 2014, 04:45:50 PM

I just turned the corner on "Fiddy" (50) a few months ago. I got my AARP card and an engraved formal invitation from my doctor for an exploratory colonoscopy (with my choice of chamber music or house blues). Add to that the extra-special good-time fun of marriage issues and one has a tangy mid-life marinade fit for grilling on a pit of despair.


Funny how I was never given the choice of music, but my proctologist kept me entertained anyway. I'm sure part of the entry requirements on becoming a proctologist is to have completed at least a couple years of standup.
And a colonoscopy.....so many analogies akin to marriage. I've had the pleasure....of BOTH... and they aren't so bad! Sometimes in life, you will feel a little pressure....and that too, shall pass.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on May 13, 2014, 04:50:03 PM

I just turned the corner on "Fiddy" (50) a few months ago. I got my AARP card and an engraved formal invitation from my doctor for an exploratory colonoscopy (with my choice of chamber music or house blues). Add to that the extra-special good-time fun of marriage issues and one has a tangy mid-life marinade fit for grilling on a pit of despair.


Funny how I was never given the choice of music, but my proctologist kept me entertained anyway. I'm sure part of the entry requirements on becoming a proctologist is to have completed at least a couple years of standup.
And a colonoscopy.....so many analogies akin to marriage. I've had the pleasure....of BOTH... and they aren't so bad! Sometimes in life, you will feel a little pressure....and that too, shall pass.
They knocked me out for mine.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Viper on May 13, 2014, 11:36:40 PM
Yummy dinner tonight -

Grilled boneless / skinless Chicken marinaded in:
Handful of chopped candied Ginger
sprinkle of ground Ginger
teaspoon minced garlic
1/4 cup olive oil
1/2 cup soy sauce
3 tablespoons brown sugar
Smooch of Maker's Mark (smoky taste)
chopped fresh parsley

Marinade in bags in Fridge / grill with veggie kabobs, squash, onion, mushroom, peppers

It builds self esteem to feed yourself well!

you know what they say, the quickest way to a man's heart is through his stomach.

 8)
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on May 14, 2014, 05:19:35 AM
I'm posting this just as a reference point from my other journal on YBR. This was my first entry after learning about PMO and rebooting.

I need to remember her because I think I'm someone else now.


___________________________________________________________________________________

P and ED Stole My Marriage, I’m Stealing It Back
« on: August 13, 2013, 08:27:35 AM »


About three weeks ago, I left our two children (13 and 10) at home and made a surprise weekend visit to my husband’s office. This was a first. I always call and let him know out of respect. Quietly walking into his office, I found him M (unsuccessfully) to P. Instead of shrinking back, I walked right in.

This happy accident just might save our marriage. It was the final shake that woke me up.

For the past 7 or 8 years, we’ve been tip toeing around a snaggle-toothed ED monster thriving under our bed. We’ve been plodding along, thinking it was age or some other comforting reason. We had no idea ED had another more insidious friend.

I never imagined the ED was due to P. Like a lot of people, when ED became an issue 7 years ago, I assumed he could take a pill and fix it. As an O goal kind of person, I nagged until he went to the doctor. He went to the doctor. There were no physical reasons for the ED. He was given a prescription. It worked once. The full bottle is still in the medicine cabinet with two pills missing.

Looking back, I had caught other hints of P, twice in browser histories on home laptops (I threw a blue hissy), inexplicitly empty lotion bottles (“my legs are dry” he said), open P on his iPad and unexplained long hours spent at the office. I was sure at the time the years of increasing disconnection, gas lighting and his pushing me away was due an emotional or physical affair. It wasn’t, at least not with a real person.

I blamed myself for many years. I grieved the loss of our marriage, the trust, communication and intimacy we once had. I’ve been deeply depressed, less social, hiding my light under a bushel basket. I disconnected from friends and family.

All attempts at sex were failures. He didn’t want to cuddle or even kiss more than a peck. Every day he would kiss me and say I love you. It felt false. I lived without affection. I did not thrive.

I cried a lot spontaneously over the past seven years, first thing in the morning, before going to bed, on the way to work, in the grocery store, on flights to business meetings. It really isn’t like me. I hate myself for all the crying. Unable to stop it, I’ve felt worthless and unworthy. Unable to concentrate and endure the travel away from my collapsing family, I quit my six figure job three years ago. I felt ashamed and embarrassed. I was sure everyone could clearly see what a failure I was as a wife, what I liar I was pretending to be successful.

I confided in no one about my marital problems or why I was so sad. He didn’t want to listen to it, refused to acknowledge my pain. He was happy, why couldn’t I just chin up and be happy? He seemed content to work long hours and be a quiet ghost at home.

My gut said something was terribly wrong. I had no clear evidence. Every time I brought up the subject with him, I vowed never to bring it up again. I shouldered the blame for my concern and pain, saying it was menopause. It was always frustrating because in my heart I knew it wasn’t, but in a small way blaming myself was better than listening to him blame me.

I was pretty sure he was in crisis too, although the possibility of infidelity overshadowed it. He became increasingly angry when I tried to talk to him about the ED. He questioned my fidelity. I see now that the ED and secrets were really wearing on him too.

I read some entries on the experience project about xless marriages. I felt doomed to live the rest of my life without affection, trust, intimacy. Reading those posts I knew I don’t want that kind of resentment and anger in my life, even if I could identify with them.

My sadness was a cloud that changed the temperature of our home. He would tell me he wasn’t responsible for my happiness, that I should divorce him. He never suggested filing himself. He said he was perfectly happy, there was no other woman. He said he was at work and he was. He supported feelings of thinking I was crazy, selfish for wanting an intimate relationship.

I secretly filled out the divorce papers once, but couldn’t face telling the kids I broke up our family. I didn’t tell him either.

My health has suffered. I developed back and hip pain that could not be explained by my doctor or the second and third opinions. I stopped caring for myself. My sleep became erratic. I felt constant pain in my joints. My blood pressure required medication. My immune system took a hit. Thankfully, my silence meant I didn’t take medication for depression.

I gained weight, so did he. I was in good shape when the ED started, kickboxing 3 times a week. I started bathing only once or twice a week for the last year or so. In a sick way, being undesirable was comforting, because at least I felt more in control of his neglect. I made excuses to sleep on the couch on anniversaries and birthdays, dreading another reminder of failure. This arrangement became more the norm than exception as time went on.

He stopped making mundane repairs around the house early on. He complained and shamed me for poor housekeeping.

Earlier this summer his language reflected a refusal to commit to any future. There was no emotional investment, for me or our kids. I had no concrete idea why, suspicions but no evidence. I was sure it was another woman, not just ED.

As parents we functioned at the lowest level. The kids have suffered. He began to disconnect even from them, choosing to work late and practically all weekend at the office instead of attending school functions or family night at summer camp. Everyone’s self-esteem was low, his, mine, the kids. Recently, our youngest told me about a ‘nightmare’ where Mommy and Daddy got a divorce. The look on my child’s face gave me the strength to approach him again.

I am no fool, although I’ve acted foolishly. Even writing this out now, I have to wonder why I ever endured any of it. I am educated. I am capable, logical, tenacious, loving. I know this was no way to live. I am ashamed for letting it happen. I am so much better than this.

I’m approaching 50, born in the Year of the Dragon, according to calendars in Chinese restaurants.

His embarrassment when I boldly walked in on him in the office was the final straw. He’s been very careful, hiding it away at the office. He’s always been clever, one of the things l love about him.

He was pretty shaken when I entered his office. I really didn’t care. We talked for several hours. He tried to gaslight me, making the P my fault. It didn’t’ work. I didn’t shout. I didn’t coddle him. I was blunt and matter of fact, the way I used to be.

I’m sick and tired of being sick and tired. I never want to see that look again on my child’s face. I told him so.

I stopped crying and found my inner dragon. It was like something cracked open and the real me began to re-emerge.

He admitted that he was no longer able to sustain an erection even with P, just as passing comment. I told him if we divorced because of this I would call his second wife “Daddy’s new vj” or “my sister wife”. We laughed about this, because he knows I’m only half joking. I will always be the first wife and mother of his children. He has to deal with me, the real live fire breathing dragon, for the rest of his life. Poor guy. The flip side of that coin is I will always have to deal with him. I told him I would not divorce him, right now, but we needed to be a couple again. Together we are supernova. He knows this. I made it clear that everything was at stake for him.

He seemed genuinely relieved.

Before I left, he hugged me hard. I hugged back just as hard. I truly believe we are evenly yoked as they say.

I still didn’t understand the P and ED connection until three days later. I was searching for ED solutions, plodding through all the stuff I had already reviewed. I found YBoP and the Reboot. I watched videos. I read everything I could. I shared all of this with him. It was an epiphany for both of us. He’s been no PMO for 14 days. He’s visited the Reddit forum. He seems determined to stop with the P.

He’s worn a rubber band on his wrist to snap when he has the urge to glance at some P. That sounds hokey, but it was a small independent decision on his part to take control of the addiction. He’s reconnecting. He’s coming home earlier. He makes a bee line for me, wherever I am in the house. He’s been more attentive with the kids. He’s begun to address the much needed little repairs around the house or hired contractors. For now he’s trying to act like my husband, a father to our kids. He seems grateful for every kindness I do for him.

After 14 days without P he seems happier. I’m happier, hopeful. I speed read CPA. Transitioning away from goals is difficult. I’ve started a slower re-read and I’m picking up more as I go along. We engage in karezza every day, sometimes two or three times.

I warned him a flat line could emerge in the next few weeks where his returning libido collapses during the reboot. We’ve talked about withdrawal symptoms and how to pick ourselves up from that.

While putting up a strong front, I began to hold back a little early on, waiting for the other shoe to drop, a relapse. I realize this is just the initial wave. He’s improved, maybe too quickly, but my trust needs healing too. I’ve wondered if there is more betrayal I don’t know about. I’ve decided to forgive what I don’t know and focus on the future.

My enemy is not him; it is the behavior. I’ve done my best let go of the past. Even writing these down I feel the past holds less power over me. The karezza and bonding has really helped me muffle the voices of doubt. It is like a soft, fat warm rain after a seven year drought. I want this to last.

Last weekend, sitting on the couch the soles of our feet touching, I felt a contentment and hope I hadn’t felt in a very long time.

I’ve hurt myself and my family enough over this. I have my own self-betrayal to address while supporting him. He didn’t make me accept being treated like this, avoid bathing or allow my mental and physical health to wane. He made it easier to do, but at the end of the day I did those things. I fully expect his support while I heal too. Self-pity seems to have its own set of addictive triggers. I want my own addiction cycle broken, reduced to ashes. I want to move on from this.

Robert Browning said that a marriage isn’t about just finding the right person; it is about being the right person. I feel a need to get right while my partner gets right.

So here’s my task list:
1.   Make home and family our sanctuary. This is for the kids, me and him. More than just good housekeeping, we need to be a functioning family. Game night, meals together at the table, no disconnection.
2.   Redecorate our bedroom from the bordello red to something more soothing. I want a new space that doesn’t remind me of all that crying. There may be a ritual burning of curtains. I dislike them so much now.
3.   Filters on everything. No P available in the house. He wasn’t using at the house, but no need to leave that gate open.
4.   Address the triggers at work. He has to do this with accountability. It is non-negotiable. He knows the consequences.
5.   Birthdays, anniversaries, holidays, kid activities and accomplishments will be celebrated as a family. No excuses for work will be tolerated. Pixels and people at work don’t pick your retirement home. Plan accordingly. Gift thoughtfully.
6.   Disagree respectfully. Acknowledge the concerns of others, but don’t be a doormat. No gas lighting, ever.
7.   Reconnect with family, friends, and former business acquaintances.
8.   Let go of my own addictions, replace them with healthy alternatives. I’m a goal oriented person, so some things like karezza will be a big challenge.
9.   Show affection and feelings without fear of rejection or betrayal. (This is tough right now)
10.   Work toward seeing my husband as a whole person, instead of compartmentalizing him into provider, father, P addict and his past self. Help him do the same with me as we heal.
11.   Keep the future and continued healing the focus in our home, in our relationships and with the children. Don’t get stuck in useless past problem admiration, instead work the solutions, celebrate today’s success.
12.   Be mindful that my own acceptance of P influenced cultural definitions for femininity, beauty and xuality which can be destructive and lead to relapse of past behaviors.
13.   Swim. Watercolor. Write. Learn. Take online classes to refresh career resume.
14.   Love and forgive generously; eat the violators and burn the usurpers. This means we (both of us) need to work toward trust, disclosure while setting clear boundaries and have healthy, well measured responses ready when those boundaries are crossed.
I’ll try to write less next time. It just feels very good to get it all out there. I’ll journal again in a few days. We are jumping into this without a therapist, so the act of journaling and your comments are helpful for me – to keep me honest with myself and promote healing.

His PA history- 47, Used P as a teen, exclusively images from magazines. Stopped P for long time, no P during grad school (we were together then) started back up before the birth of our first child. PA has been ‘just looking’ at P 3-5 times (his estimation, which I think means more than a dozen) a day during work week and MO heavily on weekends and evenings, free (he says) vids and images only because he’s cheap and sneaky.

Thanks to anyone reading through all this for kind indulgence. Thought provoking questions welcome!
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Wanttobebetter on May 14, 2014, 11:13:08 AM
That is an amazing journal entry! I'll have to read it a couple more times for all of it to sink in. What you wrote will provide help for countless others. I'll write more but at the moment words fail me. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm certain it had great positive effect on you too. Well done!
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: STR on May 14, 2014, 12:51:48 PM
Just read through all of the entries in the journal, and wanted to comment on your husband's former office assistant.

Based on what you said (and on my own personal experience), I consider it highly likely that your husband (1) is sexually attracted to the assistant, (2) continues to (or at least, used to) fantasize about her sexually, whether during masturbation or otherwise, and (3) fantasizes about what it would be like to be married to her instead of to you. His recent efforts to have her work for/with him again (and his anger at you for messing up that plan) suggest that he still allows this woman to have a place in his brain/heart that should be reserved only for you.

I wonder whether, in your discussions with him about PMO, you broached the subject of ogling and fantasy? In my case, while I certainly used to look at lots of porn, I also used to ogle women on the streets and fantasize about them during masturbation, and during sex with my wife. I also had a few women that I knew personally that I was attracted to and that I prioritized above my wife in ways that I shouldn't have done. Ogling and fantasy caused at least as much damage to my marriage (and to my penis/libido) as did my viewing of porn.

It sounds to me as if your husband might be prioritizing his assistant over you in certain ways that he shouldn't, and part of me thinks you might want to broach that subject with him...

EDIT: I should add that I have felt "possessive" over the few women that I knew personally that I prioritized over my wife. Among other ways, this possessiveness manifested itself in feeling jealous if the women were spending time with men other than me, and in defending the women if my wife said anything negative about them. If your husband is showing signs of possessiveness in relation to another (especially, young and attractive) woman, that is a red flag that should be addressed.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on May 14, 2014, 04:47:06 PM
Just read through all of the entries in the journal, and wanted to comment on your husband's former office assistant.

Based on what you said (and on my own personal experience), I consider it highly likely that your husband (1) is sexually attracted to the assistant, (2) continues to (or at least, used to) fantasize about her sexually, whether during masturbation or otherwise, and (3) fantasizes about what it would be like to be married to her instead of to you. His recent efforts to have her work for/with him again (and his anger at you for messing up that plan) suggest that he still allows this woman to have a place in his brain/heart that should be reserved only for you.

I wonder whether, in your discussions with him about PMO, you broached the subject of ogling and fantasy? In my case, while I certainly used to look at lots of porn, I also used to ogle women on the streets and fantasize about them during masturbation, and during sex with my wife. I also had a few women that I knew personally that I was attracted to and that I prioritized above my wife in ways that I shouldn't have done. Ogling and fantasy caused at least as much damage to my marriage (and to my penis/libido) as did my viewing of porn.

It sounds to me as if your husband might be prioritizing his assistant over you in certain ways that he shouldn't, and part of me thinks you might want to broach that subject with him...

EDIT: I should add that I have felt "possessive" over the few women that I knew personally that I prioritized over my wife. Among other ways, this possessiveness manifested itself in feeling jealous if the women were spending time with men other than me, and in defending the women if my wife said anything negative about them. If your husband is showing signs of possessiveness in relation to another (especially, young and attractive) woman, that is a red flag that should be addressed.

Yep. Everything. Yep.

I certainly agree with everything you've said here. Today was another example.

I have been working very hard, and getting no where when it comes to working as his assistant. At every turn, I feel like I am being setup to fail. Today I was given a task, a drop dead deadline and then he got mad when I couldn't meet it. It was impossible to complete and seemingly last minute. (I was with him at work all weekend and this task never came up.)

When I hit the fail-to-get-it-done in the office by the travel deadline, I quickly uploaded the documents and sent them to a printer in the city where he plans to travel. They will be picked up and taken to his hotel. (I even found an online coupon and got the job done at a 40% discount.)

He still found something to be angry about. And then he got very apologetic.

I'm really beside myself. Really. Beside myself. This isn't the first thing or the only thing.

I am competent. I have a master's degree for Cryin' out loud. I have swam with the corporate sharks, even if I act like Suzy homemaker (nothin' wrong with Suzy, so don't get offended). Also, I didn't get lunch so I'm like feeling jittery.

I still have more work to do tonight and he wants that sent to the hotel too. When I read this I feel very foolish.



Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on May 14, 2014, 09:51:48 PM
You shouldn't feel foolish. You're fighting to keep your family together. Don't give up.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Bibbity on May 15, 2014, 09:12:56 AM
You have nothing to feel foolish about!  This is all him here.

I do want to ask you a question though.  Why do you think this is about work?  I think it might be clear to most of us that his treatment of you has nothing to do with work or being a good assistant.  Something deeper is going on which I believe STR alluded to.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on May 15, 2014, 11:28:48 AM
You have nothing to feel foolish about!  This is all him here.

I do want to ask you a question though.  Why do you think this is about work?  I think it might be clear to most of us that his treatment of you has nothing to do with work or being a good assistant.  Something deeper is going on which I believe STR alluded to.

It is all a means to an ends, Bibbity.

If I fail as an assistant, he can feel justified hiring her, thus continuing the fantasy WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY being a great husband (in his mind) by reducing the wife's work stress and feeling triumphant luring the maiden away from the former snarling business partnership.

All that obsessive-fantasy-nourishing win - if I can be made to feel incompetent as an assistant.

Here's the thing. She makes too much money right now because he admiration-loaded up her salary at the old office when he wasn't the owner writing the checks. The additional variable overhead in our new office is not justifiable, IMHO and damn-fine financial analysis. Also, No. She will not work here.

EDIT: I really do see this happening. I'm a very practical person, not one to give in to conspiracies. Too many pieces fit that make this highly probable. Also, he whines about "needing" her help, less frequently as of late, but still.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on May 15, 2014, 12:41:04 PM
You have nothing to feel foolish about!  This is all him here.

I do want to ask you a question though.  Why do you think this is about work?  I think it might be clear to most of us that his treatment of you has nothing to do with work or being a good assistant.  Something deeper is going on which I believe STR alluded to.

It is all a means to an ends, Bibbity.

If I fail as an assistant, he can feel justified hiring her, thus continuing the fantasy WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY being a great husband (in his mind) by reducing the wife's work stress and feeling triumphant luring the maiden away from the former snarling business partnership.

All that obsessive-fantasy-nourishing win - if I can be made to feel incompetent as an assistant.

Here's the thing. She makes too much money right now because he admiration-loaded up her salary at the old office when he wasn't the owner writing the checks. The additional variable overhead in our new office is not justifiable, IMHO and damn-fine financial analysis. Also, No. She will not work here.

EDIT: I really do see this happening. I'm a very practical person, not one to give in to conspiracies. Too many pieces fit that make this highly probable. Also, he whines about "needing" her help, less frequently as of late, but still.
I think that you are handling this the right way. Fight to save your relationship and keep in mind that this is a symptom of his ongoing problems. It will get better as he gets further from PMO.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on May 15, 2014, 01:19:51 PM
You have nothing to feel foolish about!  This is all him here.

I do want to ask you a question though.  Why do you think this is about work?  I think it might be clear to most of us that his treatment of you has nothing to do with work or being a good assistant.  Something deeper is going on which I believe STR alluded to.

It is all a means to an ends, Bibbity.

If I fail as an assistant, he can feel justified hiring her, thus continuing the fantasy WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY being a great husband (in his mind) by reducing the wife's work stress and feeling triumphant luring the maiden away from the former snarling business partnership.

All that obsessive-fantasy-nourishing win - if I can be made to feel incompetent as an assistant.

Here's the thing. She makes too much money right now because he admiration-loaded up her salary at the old office when he wasn't the owner writing the checks. The additional variable overhead in our new office is not justifiable, IMHO and damn-fine financial analysis. Also, No. She will not work here.

EDIT: I really do see this happening. I'm a very practical person, not one to give in to conspiracies. Too many pieces fit that make this highly probable. Also, he whines about "needing" her help, less frequently as of late, but still.
I think that you are handling this the right way. Fight to save your relationship and keep in mind that this is a symptom of his ongoing problems. It will get better as he gets further from PMO.

I'm no hapless victim here. I got game and recognize game when I see it. The goal is to rid our marriage of the PMO, fantasy trash and start living like human beings.

I automated a lot of the work, which really reduced the need for an assistant with her particular skill set, so much of the "inadequacy test runs" come from manual administrative work.

It is getting better, but I can almost guarantee that during times of high stress he will pull a little trick or two.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on May 15, 2014, 01:24:51 PM
You seem to be taking the long view of all this, which is the way to go. I'm sure that it will pay off in the long run.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Bibbity on May 15, 2014, 04:02:47 PM
SOBR have you talked to him about this issue?  I hate to harp on about it but it just seems that the issue of the assistant is being swept under the rug instead of being addressed head on with him.  I feel like you are playing some sort of game behind the scenes to thwart his plans instead of calling him out on being an asshole husband...or at least communicate about what this woman gives him etc. and how this turns him away from you.  He sees her as being able to fulfill a need that he is not getting from you (in his mind) because he is still under the illusion that it will only come from her, his fantasy.  This isn't about work.  It's about him turning away from you to get his needs met.  Confronting him will at least break the spell and get him to question that fantasy.

Maybe I am misunderstanding the issue and it certainly is none of my business but as a woman it's painful to see him treating you like this and you not confronting him about it.  He needs to be turning towards you at all times.  I disagree with LTE here.  Problems do not magically disappear if not dealt with.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on May 15, 2014, 04:42:39 PM
SOBR have you talked to him about this issue?  I hate to harp on about it but it just seems that the issue of the assistant is being swept under the rug instead of being addressed head on with him.  I feel like you are playing some sort of game behind the scenes to thwart his plans instead of calling him out on being an asshole husband...or at least communicate about what this woman gives him etc. and how this turns him away from you.  He sees her as being able to fulfill a need that he is not getting from you (in his mind) because he is still under the illusion that it will only come from her, his fantasy.  This isn't about work.  It's about him turning away from you to get his needs met.  Confronting him will at least break the spell and get him to question that fantasy.

Maybe I am misunderstanding the issue and it certainly is none of my business but as a woman it's painful to see him treating you like this and you not confronting him about it.  He needs to be turning towards you at all times.  I disagree with LTE here.  Problems do not magically disappear if not dealt with.

"SOBR have you talked to him about this issue? "

Why yes I have. I don't talk about how I feel about it more than I already have, because it doesn't matter right now. The thing is talking about my hurt feelings does not work when a) the guy is reinforcing his own delusion b) nagging, calling him an asshole doesn't make the case for "your fantasy lady is bad" it does make the case for "fantasy lady would not yell at me".

Talking about my feelings on this subject with him would be like talking to a wall. He's got to heal his PMO-brain-rot, I'm just making it very, very difficult for him to rationalize his possessiveness, objectification and inappropriate prioritization outside our marriage and start looking at who really loves and cares for him (that would be me).

I know this may seem weird, but he is improving. The frequency has kinda waned a bit, although a big contract payoff coming up would mean a lemme-have-my-assistant campaign. We'll see if it really does or not.

EDIT: He had contact (text, phonecall, visit to her office) with her almost everyday when we started the new office. Business, of course. After she dropped the ball on a very important project he wanted done, ah-not so much contact now.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on May 15, 2014, 11:41:06 PM
SOBR have you talked to him about this issue?  I hate to harp on about it but it just seems that the issue of the assistant is being swept under the rug instead of being addressed head on with him.  I feel like you are playing some sort of game behind the scenes to thwart his plans instead of calling him out on being an asshole husband...or at least communicate about what this woman gives him etc. and how this turns him away from you.  He sees her as being able to fulfill a need that he is not getting from you (in his mind) because he is still under the illusion that it will only come from her, his fantasy.  This isn't about work.  It's about him turning away from you to get his needs met.  Confronting him will at least break the spell and get him to question that fantasy.

Maybe I am misunderstanding the issue and it certainly is none of my business but as a woman it's painful to see him treating you like this and you not confronting him about it.  He needs to be turning towards you at all times.  I disagree with LTE here.  Problems do not magically disappear if not dealt with.

"SOBR have you talked to him about this issue? "

Why yes I have. I don't talk about how I feel about it more than I already have, because it doesn't matter right now. The thing is talking about my hurt feelings does not work when a) the guy is reinforcing his own delusion b) nagging, calling him an asshole doesn't make the case for "your fantasy lady is bad" it does make the case for "fantasy lady would not yell at me".

Talking about my feelings on this subject with him would be like talking to a wall. He's got to heal his PMO-brain-rot, I'm just making it very, very difficult for him to rationalize his possessiveness, objectification and inappropriate prioritization outside our marriage and start looking at who really loves and cares for him (that would be me).

I know this may seem weird, but he is improving. The frequency has kinda waned a bit, although a big contract payoff coming up would mean a lemme-have-my-assistant campaign. We'll see if it really does or not.

EDIT: He had contact (text, phonecall, visit to her office) with her almost everyday when we started the new office. Business, of course. After she dropped the ball on a very important project he wanted done, ah-not so much contact now.
I think you are in the right track. I see this as a symptom that goes hand in hand with PMO. If he stays PMO free he will not be as prone to objectification and his infatuation will run out of steam. Take it from one who has been there.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on May 16, 2014, 07:02:20 AM
Thank you Bibbity and LTE and STR. It takes a village. Your perspectives and insights are very helpful.

I've known this is a problem for a long time. I've never felt closer to completely resolving it until now.

It is a deep infatuation on his part. It is, I believe, economically based and work related on her part (she's younger, married with kids). She and her husband have financial difficulties. My infatuated husband and the former office have already been somewhat manipulated into a "bidding war" for her.

It isn't healthy for my husband to participate and I know I'm doing the right thing. Bibbity, I can do the talk thing when husband regains some human feelings and isn't awash in fantasitical ideas of this woman.

Also, I feel great this morning! Cinnamon rolls for the kids (and me).
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Wanttobebetter on May 16, 2014, 07:23:04 AM
Cinnamon rolls are the universal fix-all for all the world's troubles!
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Deuce26 on May 16, 2014, 10:29:13 AM

He still found something to be angry about. And then he got very apologetic.

I'm really beside myself. Really. Beside myself. This isn't the first thing or the only thing.

I am competent. I have a master's degree for Cryin' out loud. I have swam with the corporate sharks, even if I act like Suzy homemaker (nothin' wrong with Suzy, so don't get offended). Also, I didn't get lunch so I'm like feeling jittery.

I still have more work to do tonight and he wants that sent to the hotel too. When I read this I feel very foolish.

My wife and I have both got to the point where we recognize that we may not be in a good frame of mind at all times when dealing with each other. It's amazing when you just ask the other partner if they are doing ok. It diffuses the situation.
It's hard not to take it personally, but I doubt your effort is to blame. He wasn't coming from the right frame of mind and somehow was taking out on you.
All things considered, life is very good. Sometimes we all forget to count our blessings first, and when we do that, it makes the troubles seem less important.
I think you are a very strong woman.....much like my wife, and I know the both of you can see more good than bad because if you didn't, you and my wife would be gone by now.
That just reminded me of a therapy session a couple years back when that sort of statement came up.
D
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on May 16, 2014, 11:11:35 AM

He still found something to be angry about. And then he got very apologetic.

I'm really beside myself. Really. Beside myself. This isn't the first thing or the only thing.

I am competent. I have a master's degree for Cryin' out loud. I have swam with the corporate sharks, even if I act like Suzy homemaker (nothin' wrong with Suzy, so don't get offended). Also, I didn't get lunch so I'm like feeling jittery.

I still have more work to do tonight and he wants that sent to the hotel too. When I read this I feel very foolish.

My wife and I have both got to the point where we recognize that we may not be in a good frame of mind at all times when dealing with each other. It's amazing when you just ask the other partner if they are doing ok. It diffuses the situation.
It's hard not to take it personally, but I doubt your effort is to blame. He wasn't coming from the right frame of mind and somehow was taking out on you.
All things considered, life is very good. Sometimes we all forget to count our blessings first, and when we do that, it makes the troubles seem less important.
I think you are a very strong woman.....much like my wife, and I know the both of you can see more good than bad because if you didn't, you and my wife would be gone by now.
That just reminded me of a therapy session a couple years back when that sort of statement came up.
D

I don't want to fight him. I want him to fight this brain demon. I want him to fight for himself. I want him to fight for us, the kids, our future.

Frankly, I see him as too weak to fight with right now. I like my fights fairly fought. Also, I don't want one side to win.

Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on May 16, 2014, 12:42:59 PM
I don't want to fight him. I want him to fight this brain demon. I want him to fight for himself. I want him to fight for us, the kids, our future.

Frankly, I see him as too weak to fight with right now. I like my fights fairly fought. Also, I don't want one side to win.
You are certainly maintaining perspective in this. The enemy is porn and masturbation, making the break and getting completely free will help hime to reacquire his character and objectification will no longer be an issue.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Bibbity on May 16, 2014, 03:55:58 PM
Quote
I don't want to fight him. I want him to fight this brain demon. I want him to fight for himself. I want him to fight for us, the kids, our future.

Frankly, I see him as too weak to fight with right now. I like my fights fairly fought. Also, I don't want one side to win

Ok I think I am understanding it now!!  I certainly didn't mean go off half cocked and call him an asshole.  I just meant express your feelings, let him know what you are telling us.  I truly understand your point of view now and hopefully his brain fog lifts soon.

Hang in there :)
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on May 16, 2014, 04:53:39 PM
Quote
I don't want to fight him. I want him to fight this brain demon. I want him to fight for himself. I want him to fight for us, the kids, our future.

Frankly, I see him as too weak to fight with right now. I like my fights fairly fought. Also, I don't want one side to win

Ok I think I am understanding it now!!  I certainly didn't mean go off half cocked and call him an asshole.  I just meant express your feelings, let him know what you are telling us.  I truly understand your point of view now and hopefully his brain fog lifts soon.

Hang in there :)

I hope his brain fog lifts soon too. I appreciate that good thought from you.

Just don't think I'm the weak one here. I am not. Perhaps in the beginning I was, I don't know. But not right now. 

My paradigm of this is changing. I think each of these symptoms of chronic PMO are just there to protect the addiction. They really serve no other purpose.

Addiction protects itself with disconnection, so no one will try and help. PIED? well that'll keep 'em glued to the computer instead of a real person. Shame? Hey, won't ask for help, thus preserving the addiction. Objectifying women? Well there's a way to keep from connecting with pretty much anyone.




Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Wanttobebetter on May 17, 2014, 10:40:34 AM
Like Kaybee, I continue to admire your resolve to get both you and your husband through this.  Your analysis of yourself and him and the interaction and the business and how your lives interact is remarkable. You demonstrate compassion and thought when others might act vindictively. You see the humanity in all that has happened in your life and the life your marriage. Your words inspire me and many others. We will all get thru this to a better life.  Time and work and talk and sharing and forgiveness. It's often a fight but it's a damn worthwhile fight. Be happy my pal.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on May 17, 2014, 01:14:27 PM
Okay, this might not have been apparent this week, but pretty much every thing from comment #86 on this thread on down was babysitting me after he threw a fit and left on his business trip. Thank you, thank you to everyone that commented and helped keep me focused while I was alone.

On Wednesday he left angry / apologetic after being furious with me.

He returned late Friday night, in a very different mood perhaps realizing what a jerk he was. He has been very, very attentive. (AND yes, I'm very sure he worked, trust me I haf wayz.)

Anyway, I'm probably going to take a journal break for a week or so while I live some real life. All these issues haven't magically disappeared. I need to go work on them.

SORP
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on May 22, 2014, 05:51:58 AM
Hugged and kissed the old man this morning. Told him I'm proud of his progress. It's been about 60 days since we started REBOOT Part Deux. It was sometime around the end/Middle of March when I found his mega stash and he admitted to maybe not so much commitment in the Reboot.

Today - It has been 60+ days and he's avoided the P, MO and stuck to the program.

Here's what I've learned about support this time around.

We knew the process worked. The first time I was pretty supportive in that I jumped through hoops to get that thing working again and made it as easy as possible on him. This served a purpose, but did nothing for his commitment to change at the time. Also this was very penis-focused. I made that word up, obviously, but I think the first reboot he and I were focused on the penis as an indicator of health. This was dumb for a couple of reasons -1) he could still disconnect because I was doing all the rewiring work for him 2) I became even more of an object, not a whole person because letting go of P didn't require him letting go of fantasy while I worked to rewire him. All in all, this time, I've waited for him to really let go of the PMO and fantasy so when I do rewire with him, it is MY BODY and MIND he is with. In 60 days I think we've had sex maybe three times? Lots more talking and bonding, the sex will get there.

Recovery is not linear. I've written this on other journals and need to write it again. I don't know what I was thinking, but I know it wasn't the wild ride of good days followed by several bad, only to be followed by more good. Overall the trend is improvement and daily assessments and readjustments are unnecessary. All the obsessing over every little bump is a waste of time unless it is going to throw you off course. Sometimes the obsessing takes a sideways run, but head down and staying on the path is the way to go.

Respect the Choices of others. There is a lot of discussion over in YBR about ultimatums and truthfully, I think there are some subtleties missing. I will leave if he chooses PMO over a healthy relationship. That is not an ultimatum, it is my decision. Today, next week, next year - I am not interested in that kind of life. Ultimatums control the behavior of others, decisions are just decisions. He can choose PMO if he wants to. He can return to it any time he wishes. It would make me very sad to say goodbye, but I won't do this again. It is no way to live.

Self-Esteem is Through the ROOF! I think this time I am much less unsure and weak. I feel empowered again. I don't feel threatened and anxious all the time. The fearfulness that "he might leave me" or questions of infidelity are gone. I don't need a pound of flesh in payment for all the pain caused. I have the capacity for forgiveness and compassion again. I don't feel vindictive or petty. I am really proud of myself for all the work I put into re-building my self-esteem, because I built that!
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on May 22, 2014, 08:07:41 AM
Great thoughts, SORP.

I especially the thoughts about it not being a linear process and not obsessing over every bump in the road.

I think you have made some sound decisions.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Bibbity on May 22, 2014, 09:50:21 AM
Quote
Respect the Choices of others. There is a lot of discussion over in YBR about ultimatums and truthfully, I think there are some subtleties missing. I will leave if he chooses PMO over a healthy relationship. That is not an ultimatum, it is my decision. Today, next week, next year - I am not interested in that kind of life. Ultimatums control the behavior of others, decisions are just decisions. He can choose PMO if he wants to. He can return to it any time he wishes. It would make me very sad to say goodbye, but I won't do this again. It is no way to live.

Whole heartedly agree with this.  For me it was not an ultimatum it was simply telling him I was going to leave.  No ultimatum!  An ultimatum is a control tactic and I do not agree with it.  The man will know you are giving false threats anyway, hell my kids know when I'm making false threats!
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on May 23, 2014, 07:26:55 AM
Quote
Respect the Choices of others. There is a lot of discussion over in YBR about ultimatums and truthfully, I think there are some subtleties missing. I will leave if he chooses PMO over a healthy relationship. That is not an ultimatum, it is my decision. Today, next week, next year - I am not interested in that kind of life. Ultimatums control the behavior of others, decisions are just decisions. He can choose PMO if he wants to. He can return to it any time he wishes. It would make me very sad to say goodbye, but I won't do this again. It is no way to live.

Whole heartedly agree with this.  For me it was not an ultimatum it was simply telling him I was going to leave.  No ultimatum!  An ultimatum is a control tactic and I do not agree with it.  The man will know you are giving false threats anyway, hell my kids know when I'm making false threats!

I know I harp on self-esteem a lot, like every other post is about self-esteem. But how we value ourselves is expressed in many ways. One example is in our decisions.

If I backslide, crawfish or just ignore my own declarations it says (to myself) I don't value myself. Others will see me as a hypocrite, but it goes deeper. I will see me as a hypocrite. Dysfunction gets a toe in the door.

For those struggling with PMO, the addiction depends on low self-esteem and all those rationalizations to let commitment wane. No PMO becomes a false threat to the addiction and it thrives.

To be a lover you have to love and value yourself first. That's nothing new under the sun, but dang if any of us can quite get it right.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on May 23, 2014, 08:09:10 AM
Quote
Respect the Choices of others. There is a lot of discussion over in YBR about ultimatums and truthfully, I think there are some subtleties missing. I will leave if he chooses PMO over a healthy relationship. That is not an ultimatum, it is my decision. Today, next week, next year - I am not interested in that kind of life. Ultimatums control the behavior of others, decisions are just decisions. He can choose PMO if he wants to. He can return to it any time he wishes. It would make me very sad to say goodbye, but I won't do this again. It is no way to live.

Whole heartedly agree with this.  For me it was not an ultimatum it was simply telling him I was going to leave.  No ultimatum!  An ultimatum is a control tactic and I do not agree with it.  The man will know you are giving false threats anyway, hell my kids know when I'm making false threats!

I know I harp on self-esteem a lot, like every other post is about self-esteem. But how we value ourselves is expressed in many ways. One example is in our decisions.

If I backslide, crawfish or just ignore my own declarations it says (to myself) I don't value myself. Others will see me as a hypocrite, but it goes deeper. I will see me as a hypocrite. Dysfunction gets a toe in the door.

For those struggling with PMO, the addiction depends on low self-esteem and all those rationalizations to let commitment wane. No PMO becomes a false threat to the addiction and it thrives.

To be a lover you have to love and value yourself first. That's nothing new under the sun, but dang if any of us can quite get it right.
I was thinking that exact same thing myself, recently.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Bibbity on May 23, 2014, 12:07:17 PM
Quote
I know I harp on self-esteem a lot, like every other post is about self-esteem. But how we value ourselves is expressed in many ways. One example is in our decisions.

If I backslide, crawfish or just ignore my own declarations it says (to myself) I don't value myself. Others will see me as a hypocrite, but it goes deeper. I will see me as a hypocrite. Dysfunction gets a toe in the door.

For those struggling with PMO, the addiction depends on low self-esteem and all those rationalizations to let commitment wane. No PMO becomes a false threat to the addiction and it thrives.

To be a lover you have to love and value yourself first. That's nothing new under the sun, but dang if any of us can quite get it right.

Amen sista!  I think a big lesson for me in this whole thing was how I "allowed" this garbage to continue by being somehow ok with a crappy sexual connection without pressing for change.  I think if I had valued myself more we wouldn't even be married right now.  Maybe that's a good thing....or not....I don't know!  You learn so much through struggle so struggles can be life altering...in a good way.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on May 24, 2014, 09:02:49 PM
How to Be the World's Greatest Lover

When he's on the P and fantasy, he is a crappy lover. I am too. It takes more than tab A in slot B, fold here and press.

So, as I've hinted at here and there I've been holding out on the rewiring. We've had a few sessions, but just a few. The first go around I did my best to chin up and make the best of things, but I don't know if that did either of us any good. I threw up after our first attempt at sex during the first reboot. I didn't tell him at the time, but I did after the relapse a couple of months ago.

It is very difficult to be a great lover when your lover is with someone else in their head. It can turn a partner off of sex.

It is easy to be excited by someone you know digs you for all your beauty and faults, thinks you look cute/funny or knows how ticklish you are on the back of your knees.

When I read journals that talk about women not being into sex with their partner and some of the rationalizations for PMO, I have to wonder which came first? It isn't important, only a curiosity because the second mouse gets the cheese in this scenario if the mouse is smart.

Communication isn't just what we say, it is the subtle inflections, the pause between words, the gestures, the eyes, the tone and about 20 other verbal and non verbal points. You can't fake that in bed.

I can always tell he's really with me when he's playful and not serious. I can tell he's with me when he asks how something feels for me or asks me to read something while he distracts until I talk stupid. He's clever and fun, the PMO lover is just mechanical sex man that wants serviced or a place to service. I do not like.

I'm not interested in sleeping with the tin man. I can use him, close my eyes and think of that lover from long ago, but I just end up sad and have to fake a smile.

I have some thoughts on rewiring, maybe for another entry. Anyway I still think we're doing well and as expected, just some honest observations here, not self pity.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on May 24, 2014, 11:42:19 PM
I learn a lot from your posts, SORP.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on May 25, 2014, 02:38:00 AM
So I hinted at maybe having some one-on-one time last night. He really didn't want to, so he found something to get mad about. It was a huge betrayal on my part. Earlier in the day, I asked #1 son to get the sheets off the bed for the laundry, not realizing Husband already changed the sheets (also straightened the linen closet). This meant husband was greeted with a sheet-less bed and did a good without me discovering it because I messed it up.

Reasonably, I probably should be flogged for my crime, but in his wisdom, Husband only scolded me and pretended he was asleep so I would leave him alone because that is a mature, well-measured response for such a crime. Going to bed mad is really best, y'all.

He was affectionate earlier in the day, kissing me and actually laughing. I only wish there were some kind of visual signal of a character change, like a mustache or jaunty hat, maybe a fez, so I have more time to prepare for the shift.

To be fair, there is only one side of the story right now, but I can't imagine what that other side might be.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on May 25, 2014, 07:12:41 AM
So I hinted at maybe having some one-on-one time last night. He really didn't want to, so he found something to get mad about. It was a huge betrayal on my part. Earlier in the day, I asked #1 son to get the sheets off the bed for the laundry, not realizing Husband already changed the sheets (also straightened the linen closet). This meant husband was greeted with a sheet-less bed and did a good without me discovering it because I messed it up.

Reasonably, I probably should be flogged for my crime, but in his wisdom, Husband only scolded me and pretended he was asleep so I would leave him alone because that is a mature, well-measured response for such a crime. Going to bed mad is really best, y'all.

He was affectionate earlier in the day, kissing me and actually laughing. I only wish there were some kind of visual signal of a character change, like a mustache or jaunty hat, maybe a fez, so I have more time to prepare for the shift.

To be fair, there is only one side of the story right now, but I can't imagine what that other side might be.
One of the things I feel strongly about is that porn and masturbation impede personal,development and growth. I feel that my character has changed for the better. Maybe not as completely as I wish, but I truly am more,patient, more loving, more understanding and more wise than I was 18 months ago. It's a major change and it keeps on developing. Hopefully your man will experience improvement.

I believe that masturbation is a big part of the reason so many marriages fail. I wouldn't be surprised if it were the chief cause of marital failure these days. I've said, over and over, that this is the tip of a huge iceberg and that's what I mean, the iceberg encompasses many social problems that seem to have become endemic.

Hang in. SORP. You are wise in your own right, you'll get through this.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on May 25, 2014, 10:22:44 AM
So I hinted at maybe having some one-on-one time last night. He really didn't want to, so he found something to get mad about. It was a huge betrayal on my part. Earlier in the day, I asked #1 son to get the sheets off the bed for the laundry, not realizing Husband already changed the sheets (also straightened the linen closet). This meant husband was greeted with a sheet-less bed and did a good without me discovering it because I messed it up.

Reasonably, I probably should be flogged for my crime, but in his wisdom, Husband only scolded me and pretended he was asleep so I would leave him alone because that is a mature, well-measured response for such a crime. Going to bed mad is really best, y'all.

He was affectionate earlier in the day, kissing me and actually laughing. I only wish there were some kind of visual signal of a character change, like a mustache or jaunty hat, maybe a fez, so I have more time to prepare for the shift.

To be fair, there is only one side of the story right now, but I can't imagine what that other side might be.
One of the things I feel strongly about is that porn and masturbation impede personal,development and growth. I feel that my character has changed for the better. Maybe not as completely as I wish, but I truly am more,patient, more loving, more understanding and more wise than I was 18 months ago. It's a major change and it keeps on developing. Hopefully your man will experience improvement.

I believe that masturbation is a big part of the reason so many marriages fail. I wouldn't be surprised if it were the chief cause of marital failure these days. I've said, over and over, that this is the tip of a huge iceberg and that's what I mean, the iceberg encompasses many social problems that seem to have become endemic.

Hang in. SORP. You are wise in your own right, you'll get through this.

Oh, I hope we will.

So the first thing out of his mouth this morning was "I was insanely convinced you stripped the bed on purpose just to annoy me. Nothing you could have said would change my mind. I just tried not to say anything. I was furious. It is irrational and could see it was irrational, but it didn't stop me."

It is out of character, his old character, the one I fell in love with, to act like this. We talked this morning about withdrawal and I brought up Gabe's video where he mentions having a mini-rage. Little kids, toddlers will have stages where they throw tantrums, insane tantrums as their brains are developing new pathways. Thankfully they are little and can't do much damage, although my cousin's kid (he was like 3-4yo) did learn a croquet mallet was also a weapon, not just a ball whacker, but a ball whacker. (He's grown now and a very nice man, great dad and super grill master.)

I think the greatest take-away from this event is that we both recognize we are in this together. I don't plan to walk on eggshells or over-react. I will need to intervene if the anger, even if it is just silence, is ever directed at the kids. It is one thing to be angry with me, an adult with a deeper understanding of the situation and a wholly different ballgame to promote feelings of mistrust or irrational disappointment with the chirrens. They have endured enough because of this shit; no more shall pass. He understands and agrees with this.

He has been working very hard to be a good dad and better husband. I can see a re-emergence of his former self. We aren't there yet, but I have hope.

I agree that most people don't have the skills to deal with this. I have never been more thankful to be from a good Hillbilly tribe that values family, food, respect for others, a well told story and the devotion of a good huntin' dog no matter how much education we have or where we end up living.

I didn't realize how valuable that core was until this test. If I could bottle it, I would give it away to anyone that needed it.

EDIT - Remember the grass is always greener around the outhouse. The loveliest flowers also grow behind it.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on May 25, 2014, 01:37:45 PM
So I hinted at maybe having some one-on-one time last night. He really didn't want to, so he found something to get mad about. It was a huge betrayal on my part. Earlier in the day, I asked #1 son to get the sheets off the bed for the laundry, not realizing Husband already changed the sheets (also straightened the linen closet). This meant husband was greeted with a sheet-less bed and did a good without me discovering it because I messed it up.

Reasonably, I probably should be flogged for my crime, but in his wisdom, Husband only scolded me and pretended he was asleep so I would leave him alone because that is a mature, well-measured response for such a crime. Going to bed mad is really best, y'all.

He was affectionate earlier in the day, kissing me and actually laughing. I only wish there were some kind of visual signal of a character change, like a mustache or jaunty hat, maybe a fez, so I have more time to prepare for the shift.

To be fair, there is only one side of the story right now, but I can't imagine what that other side might be.
One of the things I feel strongly about is that porn and masturbation impede personal,development and growth. I feel that my character has changed for the better. Maybe not as completely as I wish, but I truly am more,patient, more loving, more understanding and more wise than I was 18 months ago. It's a major change and it keeps on developing. Hopefully your man will experience improvement.

I believe that masturbation is a big part of the reason so many marriages fail. I wouldn't be surprised if it were the chief cause of marital failure these days. I've said, over and over, that this is the tip of a huge iceberg and that's what I mean, the iceberg encompasses many social problems that seem to have become endemic.

Hang in. SORP. You are wise in your own right, you'll get through this.

Oh, I hope we will.

So the first thing out of his mouth this morning was "I was insanely convinced you stripped the bed on purpose just to annoy me. Nothing you could have said would change my mind. I just tried not to say anything. I was furious. It is irrational and could see it was irrational, but it didn't stop me."

It is out of character, his old character, the one I fell in love with, to act like this. We talked this morning about withdrawal and I brought up Gabe's video where he mentions having a mini-rage. Little kids, toddlers will have stages where they throw tantrums, insane tantrums as their brains are developing new pathways. Thankfully they are little and can't do much damage, although my cousin's kid (he was like 3-4yo) did learn a croquet mallet was also a weapon, not just a ball whacker, but a ball whacker. (He's grown now and a very nice man, great dad and super grill master.)

I think the greatest take-away from this event is that we both recognize we are in this together. I don't plan to walk on eggshells or over-react. I will need to intervene if the anger, even if it is just silence, is ever directed at the kids. It is one thing to be angry with me, an adult with a deeper understanding of the situation and a wholly different ballgame to promote feelings of mistrust or irrational disappointment with the chirrens. They have endured enough because of this shit; no more shall pass. He understands and agrees with this.

He has been working very hard to be a good dad and better husband. I can see a re-emergence of his former self. We aren't there yet, but I have hope.

I agree that most people don't have the skills to deal with this. I have never been more thankful to be from a good Hillbilly tribe that values family, food, respect for others, a well told story and the devotion of a good huntin' dog no matter how much education we have or where we end up living.

I didn't realize how valuable that core was until this test. If I could bottle it, I would give it away to anyone that needed it.

EDIT - Remember the grass is always greener around the outhouse. The loveliest flowers also grow behind it.
Some great Country Wisdom there. I think I'll channel surf for some Hee Haw reruns. :)

I come from a small town and have values shaped thereby. I consider it an asset, that's for sure.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on May 25, 2014, 05:15:58 PM

Some great Country Wisdom there. I think I'll channel surf for some Hee Haw reruns. :)

I come from a small town and have values shaped thereby. I consider it an asset, that's for sure.

I think to capture my experience, I would watch Justified.  :D
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on May 25, 2014, 09:13:50 PM

Some great Country Wisdom there. I think I'll channel surf for some Hee Haw reruns. :)

I come from a small town and have values shaped thereby. I consider it an asset, that's for sure.

I think to capture my experience, I would watch Justified.  :D
Movie or TV Series.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on May 26, 2014, 05:49:31 PM

Some great Country Wisdom there. I think I'll channel surf for some Hee Haw reruns. :)

I come from a small town and have values shaped thereby. I consider it an asset, that's for sure.

I think to capture my experience, I would watch Justified.  :D
Movie or TV Series.

Television series.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Deuce26 on May 27, 2014, 10:55:48 AM
I am enjoying your side of the story, SO. I believe I can relate to your husband somewhat, although our stories are different and I can relate your experience and empathize with you as well as empathize with my wife and the experience she has been going through as well.

I know the PMO made me a different person. I have always known this. It was frustrating knowing that and unable to change the habit. Now that the habit is changing, so too are your husband an I. Going through this cleanse makes every experience a little different now. It's a lot of change to handle over a short period of time. The path of least resistance always seems to be the screen but that is no longer an option.

This is about discovery and it's scary finding out stuff about yourself and about others, because that type of change could bring on a whole lot of other change, which is stomach churning itself, but at the same time, it's liberating because we get to be closer to our authentic selves, and there is nothing better than being yourself.

D
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on May 28, 2014, 02:05:16 AM
I am enjoying your side of the story, SO. I believe I can relate to your husband somewhat, although our stories are different and I can relate your experience and empathize with you as well as empathize with my wife and the experience she has been going through as well.

I know the PMO made me a different person. I have always known this. It was frustrating knowing that and unable to change the habit. Now that the habit is changing, so too are your husband an I. Going through this cleanse makes every experience a little different now. It's a lot of change to handle over a short period of time. The path of least resistance always seems to be the screen but that is no longer an option.

This is about discovery and it's scary finding out stuff about yourself and about others, because that type of change could bring on a whole lot of other change, which is stomach churning itself, but at the same time, it's liberating because we get to be closer to our authentic selves, and there is nothing better than being yourself.

D

I always learn something new from you, Deuce.

I need to let go of my own fantasy of how he once was. That person does not exist. We all are in a constant state of flux betwixt and between the being and becoming of our authentic selves, the sinner and saint, the lover and beloved, the fool and the sage. I am not the same girl he met so long ago, not the woman that married him, not the pitiful grieving thing that cried so much.

A life of PMO does more than simply whittle away the hours. It stifles growth (as LTE has mentioned), chipping away the character and leaving something more material less spiritual, not in terms of religious piety but rather that part of all human beings that is spiritual - that seeks truth, meaning and beauty. PMO demands an acolytes' complete, unchanging devotion to vows of spiritual poverty in casting aside the pursuit of truth, meaning and beauty.

It is paradoxical how the PMO addiction cycle promises relief from un-satiated appetites and feverish boredom, yet dampens the thirst for real life discovery within our own relationships.

I feel (two points for me for saying feel instead of think) that this Reboot part deux is a renaissance, a rebirth of   spirit. We know the penis will work if we follow the rulz. Now it is time to build lovers.

EDIT - No contact with former assistant for 3+weeks according to last text messages. Hasn't made visits, that I know of, no phone calls.

He's off on an annual trip for a week with #1 son. I've hinted we need to have a talk about fantasy and the assistant. I don't know how this will go.

Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Deuce26 on May 29, 2014, 10:08:15 AM
I feel good knowing that as I change, and as my wife changes, that we can count on each other through the process. This is never easy as we need to trust that the change is for the better even if we think the change the other partner is going through is a detriment to ourselves.

The motivation behind change needs to be clear and concise, and that has to be celebrated. If I lie and say the motivation is to better my relationship, the change will not work. If I tell the truth and say I am changing for my health and well being, it may come across that it is not beneficial to the relationship if getting better means charting a new path in life. Change is scary and necessary and constantly evolving. If we are truthful to ourselves and our loved ones, this transition will be easier to do no matter the outcome. We only have this moment and how we react to it. Past and future behaviors tend to skew the present moment and the truth of the moment.

I'm not sure if I made any sense, but trust yourself. I trust myself that I am doing this for the right reasons. I tell my wife I am here for the long haul and that is what I want. A little less anxiety now is what I am feeling.

Trust yourself even when you don't think it will go well. Asking questions and finding the moment will give you information and answers, even if they aren't direct. Even when the answers are not what you want to hear.

D
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on May 29, 2014, 05:01:55 PM
I feel good knowing that as I change, and as my wife changes, that we can count on each other through the process. This is never easy as we need to trust that the change is for the better even if we think the change the other partner is going through is a detriment to ourselves.

The motivation behind change needs to be clear and concise, and that has to be celebrated. If I lie and say the motivation is to better my relationship, the change will not work. If I tell the truth and say I am changing for my health and well being, it may come across that it is not beneficial to the relationship if getting better means charting a new path in life. Change is scary and necessary and constantly evolving. If we are truthful to ourselves and our loved ones, this transition will be easier to do no matter the outcome. We only have this moment and how we react to it. Past and future behaviors tend to skew the present moment and the truth of the moment.

I'm not sure if I made any sense, but trust yourself. I trust myself that I am doing this for the right reasons. I tell my wife I am here for the long haul and that is what I want. A little less anxiety now is what I am feeling.

Trust yourself even when you don't think it will go well. Asking questions and finding the moment will give you information and answers, even if they aren't direct. Even when the answers are not what you want to hear.

D

The morning he was leaving for a week, I brought up the subject of the assistant. A lot can be said about timing, but I think this was a good time. He was in a good mood.

I have been mulling this over for awhile, rationalizing reasons to leave it be, to not borrow trouble with interest. I can't let this simply be a mouldering corpse in our marriage. As I've said before, I have allergies for cryin' out loud, all that dust makes it hard to breathe.

I have my own dysfunction, barriers to sexual fulfillment to address, and that is how I chose to frame the discussion. I need to get this off my chest and move on to better days. I also think he needs to understand that he has a problem, but that discovery has to be drawn out by him, not hammered in by me.

Anyway, I was respectful. I explained that many signs pointed to an inappropriate prioritization of her in his life and that I felt she occupied a place that should be reserved for me. He was defensive and furious with me.

I let him be furious. He tried to make these claims into crazy irrational musings on my part. My BS meter was clicking in red, the gas-lighting was so obvious it didn't stop me. I laid out the facts.

I explained that his disdain for one person that would "horn in" on their private "friendship" conversations in the office was really telling me that he coveted his time with her and was territorial.

I told him about the outsiders over the years that had approached me, telling me bold-faced directly or hinting to get a rise out of me about he and she have a very close relationship.

I explained that it seemed odd he bought her thoughtful, personal Christmas gifts (very nice designer handbag) and got me a scarf (nice, but nothing personal). This was repeated four years running, the last few years he didn't bother with the scarf for me. My birthdays and our anniversary were also ignored.

I explained that his denial that saying he "has a smoking hot secretary" to friends, in front of me was simply an "unfortunate statement" only undermines claims that they are just "professional friends". (Hey, let's call her husband and see if that floats?)

I mentioned his complete physical abandonment anytime we are out and she is in the room. I noted again that this was not my sole observation and I heard things said in front of her kids and people at the school.

I noted that she doesn't work for him anymore, yet would happily trot out of the office to visit her - announcing his departure to me.

He claims this "friendship" isn't improper because there was never sex, "couldn't be any because of the ED." (Oops another tell of emotional attachment.)

He has said to me that he knows more about our kids' school because "he has an insider" (meaning her).

I explained that he confided in her, revealed her personal tastes to others in conversations (even my mother) and seemed to be clueless about his own wife.

During one conversation with her, she told me how worried she was about him, that he didn't receive the recognition he deserved. (I didn't mention this one, lest I feed his fantasy.)

I left this discussion as a seedling of discontent for him. I don't buy his explanations. I do think this is one sided. I want him uncomfortable with the idea of his "friendship". He is not capable of understanding or empathizing how this hurts me or the kids or even her, yet.

Again, I kept this framed around my lack of understanding and asked him to help me understand this "friendship" so I can move on. It calmed him down, but also brought out some pretty fantastic explanations. Most of these centered around how I was being goaded by outsiders, those jealous people that envy him and her. Huh.

I'm not ready to let this go yet. I hope he has time to think about it. His calls home while on his trip are loving.

It will be interesting to see if he can step up and address my connection dysfunction by addressing his own.



Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on May 30, 2014, 06:44:19 PM
I definitely think that he needs to face this infatuation. The saving grace, as I see it, is that this is probably a side effect of his PMO problem. While the addiction can be broken fairly fast the erroneous behaviors that accompany it take a while longer to overcome. Hang in.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on May 30, 2014, 11:11:01 PM
I definitely think that he needs to face this infatuation. The saving grace, as I see it, is that this is probably a side effect of his PMO problem. While the addiction can be broken fairly fast the erroneous behaviors that accompany it take a while longer to overcome. Hang in.

When I write these things and tell him my side of the story, I am not reliving it. I really am pretty happy right now. We are a thousand light years from where we were 10 months ago. My marriage has some life in it again. I know all of this looks bad, because it was. Our marriage was outsourced, the emotional and physical intimacy were given away. Not a lot left after that, yet we survive.

About those erroneous behaviors. It is great that I know the signs now, have the self-esteem to do something about them and know more. But the struggle and journey won't ever end. I need him to develop a morality, and ethos for consistent good decisions that enrich his life and he feels good about, not just a list of rules to follow because I might leave him.

He always has the free will to return to that life if he wants to. (You do too, but choose everyday not to because you have developed an ethic that says that is wrong.)

It is one thing to read a book and follow directions, another to follow the opinion of bad/good of a consensus of the internet and still another to do the cranial wet-work required to develop a moral compass. Morals are born from the conflict (cognitive dissonance) of two conflicting thoughts.

Here we have "My friendship with my assistant isn't harmful because there was no sex, no rules were broken" vs. "My marriage was harmed." He struggles with defining himself as a cheater or non-cheater. The purpose is not to have a big drama-show of sorry, but build something better. My goal is to not only break down any future occurrence with the assistant, but guide him so he can build a compass so he doesn't make the same mistake. Notice that I can only guide.

Talking about the emotional affair, I also expressed my weariness with thinking about his penis all the time. Everyday I'm reading something about the penis and the problems with PMO and wondering about the state of his penis and if it will respond to me. My point is, marriage is a lot more than a working penis. It is trust and intimacy and security and cherishing what you have. I need a lover that I can trust, with an ethic that doesn't give those things away.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on May 30, 2014, 11:51:32 PM
I definitely think that he needs to face this infatuation. The saving grace, as I see it, is that this is probably a side effect of his PMO problem. While the addiction can be broken fairly fast the erroneous behaviors that accompany it take a while longer to overcome. Hang in.

When I write these things and tell him my side of the story, I am not reliving it. I really am pretty happy right now. We are a thousand light years from where we were 10 months ago. My marriage has some life in it again. I know all of this looks bad, because it was. Our marriage was outsourced, the emotional and physical intimacy were given away. Not a lot left after that, yet we survive.

About those erroneous behaviors. It is great that I know the signs now, have the self-esteem to do something about them and know more. But the struggle and journey won't ever end. I need him to develop a morality, and ethos for consistent good decisions that enrich his life and he feels good about, not just a list of rules to follow because I might leave him.

He always has the free will to return to that life if he wants to. (You do too, but choose everyday not to because you have developed an ethic that says that is wrong.)

It is one thing to read a book and follow directions, another to follow the opinion of bad/good of a consensus of the internet and still another to do the cranial wet-work required to develop a moral compass. Morals are born from the conflict (cognitive dissonance) of two conflicting thoughts.

Here we have "My friendship with my assistant isn't harmful because there was no sex, no rules were broken" vs. "My marriage was harmed." He struggles with defining himself as a cheater or non-cheater. The purpose is not to have a big drama-show of sorry, but build something better. My goal is to not only break down any future occurrence with the assistant, but guide him so he can build a compass so he doesn't make the same mistake. Notice that I can only guide.

Talking about the emotional affair, I also expressed my weariness with thinking about his penis all the time. Everyday I'm reading something about the penis and the problems with PMO and wondering about the state of his penis and if it will respond to me. My point is, marriage is a lot more than a working penis. It is trust and intimacy and security and cherishing what you have. I need a lover that I can trust, with an ethic that doesn't give those things away.
Well stated, SORP. I especially like the thoughts regarding the development of morality.

I was raised in a family that practiced strict biblical morality and that was expected of me. I complied, but I had a fantasy life that was 180 degrees out of phase with the morality of my real life. Since quitting PMO an interesting thing happened, I took ownership of my own conduct for the first time. In other words, I found out what my moral standards are, without feeling any pressure from my family. I went through a period of several months, starting last summer, where I felt compelled to have sex, at almost any cost. But, when push came to shove, I didn't really want casual sex, even though I had fantasized about it for decades. At the end of it all, when I had a solid offer from a willing partner for no strings attached sex, at that point I backed away, not out of fear, but because I knew that it would not bring lasting satisfaction.

Actually, your post has given me food for thought, because cognitive dissonance was at the heart of the problem. I felt deprived, in a sense, like I had been kept away from a playground of casual sex, but another part of me said "no!" The question came down to this, was that "no" the voice of my deceased parents, or my own moral compass. I now know that it was inside me, a moral compass that wants more out of life than meaningless sex. PMO had held me back from that stage of development.

This, in my humble opinion, is one of the reasons that porn users tend to have these flighty infatuations, they haven't got a working moral compass; because they are stuck in a permanent adolescence. Read the journals and there's an amazing similarity, the person started masturbating around the onset of puberty and was never able to quit. Most had real world relationships, but had problems caused by PMO. With the younger guys, the real world relationships may not happen because of ED. In my youth porn was rare, these days, Internet porn has made this problem much more pronounced and interfered with normal development to an even greater degree. 

In any event, it still comes down to arrested development, people never getting completely beyond an adolescent's immature view of sexuality. It's a selfish worldview that sees sex selfishly. We see it all around us, just read the tabloids. There was a piece about Hefner written by a woman that had spent time in his mansion and saw the sick sexual behavior that went on there. Here is this elderly man that has never developed the ability to have a truly intimate relationship. Reading that account made me pity him.

Not all porn addicts are as bad off as he is, and they may not have an entirely selfish view of sex, but they are still affected by their addiction and, at the very least, torn between being a true partner with their spouse and the selfish element of their addiction.

I really benefit from your comments here and find them an interesting insight into the effect this has on a wife. I continue to wish my very best to both of you. You've been very supportive of your husband through all this and I'm sure that as he leaves behind the effects of this affliction he will appreciate your contribution to his recovery more and more.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on May 31, 2014, 08:29:52 AM
During that dark time two events, I don't think I've mentioned, really stuck and took root. I have some serious cognitive dissonance when it comes to dealing with the issues and continuing the marriage.

Soon after his vasectomy, he was in tremendous pain and needed to go to the emergency room. I took him, but he soon became irritated with my presence and told me he would rather I leave and call his assistant. I sat in the parking lot for awhile and cried, went back in when he was finished seeing the doctor and drove him home in silence.

When I needed an emergency appendectomy, (I needed him to drive me to the hospital after having a CT scan earlier in the day) he asked me if I could wait a few days because he was busy. He was angry with me the night before for being sick, believing I was acting sick for attention. I hung up on him. I called his assistant (I rarely called him or her) to let her know which hospital I was going to because he was too busy right now and might want to know where I was. A few minutes later he called back and said he was on his way to pick me up.

Now one could paint me as a hag-wife that doesn't deserve his concern for my health or welfare. There is little evidence to support that, but we see it everyday where characters are assassinated to justify one's own opinion or agenda. Gas-lighting some call it.

What bothers me is I struggle with my Vow as a wife and my needs as a human being. If I am sick, I need someone I can trust to take care of me, make decisions that don't further harm. In sickness and in health as they say. I am unsure if my husband is that person if his head is somewhere up the skirt of an emotional affair and not armored with a robust moral base. I think he has violated every one of our marriage vows. This is probably the deepest threat to our marriage.


Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on May 31, 2014, 08:41:37 AM
During that dark time two events, I don't think I've mentioned, really stuck and took root. I have some serious cognitive dissonance when it comes to dealing with the issues and continuing the marriage.

Soon after his vasectomy, he was in tremendous pain and needed to go to the emergency room. I took him, but he soon became irritated with my presence and told me he would rather I leave and call his assistant. I sat in the parking lot for awhile and cried, went back in when he was finished seeing the doctor and drove him home in silence.

When I needed an emergency appendectomy, (I needed him to drive me to the hospital after having a CT scan earlier in the day) he asked me if I could wait a few days because he was busy. He was angry with me the night before for being sick, believing I was acting sick for attention. I hung up on him. I called his assistant (I rarely called him or her) to let her know which hospital I was going to because he was too busy right now and might want to know where I was. A few minutes later he called back and said he was on his way to pick me up.

Now one could paint me as a hag-wife that doesn't deserve his concern for my health or welfare. There is little evidence to support that, but we see it everyday where characters are assassinated to justify one's own opinion or agenda. Gas-lighting some call it.

What bothers me is I struggle with my Vow as a wife and my needs as a human being. If I am sick, I need someone I can trust to take care of me, make decisions that don't further harm. In sickness and in health as they say. I am unsure if my husband is that person if his head is somewhere up the skirt of an emotional affair and not armored with a robust moral base. I think he has violated every one of our marriage vows. This is probably the deepest threat to our marriage.
That is definitely a serious concern. IMO, you've identified it correctly, an emotional affair is what is happening. My guess is that she's playing it up too.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Gracie on May 31, 2014, 09:31:27 AM
SORP it is good that you are able to look at things the way you are.  As is often the case, there is no right or wrong way.  Every relationship is unique.  However, I do believe that truthfulness and honesty is important.  I think as SOs it is sometimes hard for us to express what we are thinking in a way that makes sense.  When our partner has disconnected, talking to them as though we are doesn't always work.  Cognitively they are not in the same place as we are.
 I know as my husband and I progress through this, he sometimes has to make me talk.  Because when I first discovered his use he was so angry.  Because of my past, anger makes me want to run.  Anger always led to physical violence.  (Not with this husband though)  So after we worked for months, and we are now on the same page, he has to encourage me becuase I am still used to the disconnect of him tuning me out and seemingly not caring. But when something is bothering me I do hang in there and tell.  He works extra hard to make me feel safe to talk.  I also have to encourage him to talk about things as well.  And he does talk much easier.  But as you can tell from my posts, I would rather have the brutal truth and deal with it.  Because when things are secret, that makes me fear what else is hidden.

Sometimes I think it is weird how all of this really comes down to communication.  Learning for both to communicate feelings to each other and to listen.  Who would have thunk it?
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Bibbity on May 31, 2014, 10:03:48 AM
Just reading this causes me pain and I am so sorry you have had to deal with this from a man who says he loves you.  Do you feel that he loves you or is porn the excuse you use to interpret the disconnect?  I am only asking this because you seem very disconnected to your own self worth and love.  You matter more than you could possible know.  I am not sure if I would be able to get past the resentment of those incidence you've described.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on May 31, 2014, 07:36:04 PM
Let's remember this happened some time ago (8 years for the vasectomy). I'm not crying over it twice. Also, my self esteem is fine right now.

The goal is to communicate the issue, allow him to be uncomfortable (furious and defensive will do) and start building a better ethic where he doesn't act like a peckerhead. I know he really was trying to get me to leave him back in those days. That isn't the case now, but I don't want him comfortable with the idea that this wasn't cheating. It was.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on May 31, 2014, 08:02:13 PM
Let's remember this happened some time ago (8 years for the vasectomy). I'm not crying over it twice. Also, my self esteem is fine right now.

The goal is to communicate the issue, allow him to be uncomfortable (furious and defensive will do) and start building a better ethic where he doesn't act like a peckerhead. I know he really was trying to get me to leave him back in those days. That isn't the case now, but I don't want him comfortable with the idea that this wasn't cheating. It was.
You are definitely taking the high road here. It's obvious that you have your priorities in order and aren't falling for the idea of trashing it and starting over as an easy way out. You are fighting to save your marriage and that is tremendous.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on June 01, 2014, 06:43:57 PM
Let's remember this happened some time ago (8 years for the vasectomy). I'm not crying over it twice. Also, my self esteem is fine right now.

The goal is to communicate the issue, allow him to be uncomfortable (furious and defensive will do) and start building a better ethic where he doesn't act like a peckerhead. I know he really was trying to get me to leave him back in those days. That isn't the case now, but I don't want him comfortable with the idea that this wasn't cheating. It was.
You are definitely taking the high road here. It's obvious that you have your priorities in order and aren't falling for the idea of trashing it and starting over as an easy way out. You are fighting to save your marriage and that is tremendous.

Don't think I'm such an angel. A year and a half ago Husband asked me to use my certain skills to help the assistant with a money problem. She came to the house and we talked. I listened, absorbed the subtle body language, the eyes, the ticks and tells. I did nothing to help, while saying I would. I lied without regret, waited to be called on it. Husband said nothing about it again. She avoided me. I am pretty sure assistant said nothing to my husband, knowing that boundaries have been crossed in my eyes.

I read this quote in an article written by a subordinate that had an emotional affair with her boss.

Quote
"Emotional Affairs" exist because the love and respect for the person (man/woman) at home- whether married or not- is so high, cheating is a very hard option for the person in the actual relationship. In this case, if that man was not married, we'd probably be together today. – quote from subordinate who had emotional affair with boss.

I am somewhat certain that the assistant respects me and understands the emotional affair is wrong, even if she used it for her own benefit. Who wouldn't like to live life on a pedestal at work?
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on June 02, 2014, 12:21:06 AM
You are definitely taking the high road here. It's obvious that you have your priorities in order and aren't falling for the idea of trashing it and starting over as an easy way out. You are fighting to save your marriage and that is tremendous.

Don't think I'm such an angel. A year and a half ago Husband asked me to use my certain skills to help the assistant with a money problem. She came to the house and we talked. I listened, absorbed the subtle body language, the eyes, the ticks and tells. I did nothing to help, while saying I would. I lied without regret, waited to be called on it. Husband said nothing about it again. She avoided me. I am pretty sure assistant said nothing to my husband, knowing that boundaries have been crossed in my eyes.

I read this quote in an article written by a subordinate that had an emotional affair with her boss.

Quote
"Emotional Affairs" exist because the love and respect for the person (man/woman) at home- whether married or not- is so high, cheating is a very hard option for the person in the actual relationship. In this case, if that man was not married, we'd probably be together today. – quote from subordinate who had emotional affair with boss.

I am somewhat certain that the assistant respects me and understands the emotional affair is wrong, even if she used it for her own benefit. Who wouldn't like to live life on a pedestal at work?
My point is that you are working towards the lasting interests of your family and your marriage.  To me, that's the high road.

I don't see anything unethical about what you did with regard to helping his assistant. You are under no moral obligation to work on behalf of someone that is not respecting proper boundaries as regards your marriage. Life is complex and situations arise that are not simple to deal with.

Sometimes we have to hold our own counsel and look out for our own best interests. I don't want to harm anyone, but I would do whatever it took to defend my home from a break in. Likewise, you have to defend your family from an emotional intrusion that could harm not only your marriage, but also the stability of the entire family.

The thing that is see here is that you realize that this isn't a matter of revenge (definitely the low road) or personal vindication, but that the issues at stake here affect the rest of your life, the integrity of your nuclear family and the way family members will relate to one another from this point on. I have an acquaintance who's parents divorced when he was a young man. He has to visit his parents separately, can never invite them to the same family gatherings, and has spent the last twenty years or so as a referee. My point here is that divorce may seem an attractive choice, but even when the children are grown it causes a lot of trouble for family members. Fighting to save your marriage is, at least IMO, taking the high road.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on June 02, 2014, 07:45:00 AM
Thanks for you encouragement, LTE. I am very grateful for your input. I really don't have anyone I can talk to that would a) understand the problem or b) understand the need for a higher road.

I feel great this morning. I am ready to take on the day with some of the old verve.

He will return from his retreat trip sometime tomorrow. We haven't spoken for about 5 days. He was loving and upbeat the last time we spoke. The last big conversation was about the assistant. He has had time to think about it and the boundaries that were crossed. It will be interesting to find out if he's come to any conclusions other than "no sex means no foul". I read a post from Mart71 that really expressed the issue from the guy side.

I am not married, but I had two SO's who were directly affected by me using porn. They both knew I used.

To answer your question, I didn't realize or maybe ignored I caused them harm. I had bad ED with both of them, and I thought that it was my problem and not theirs. I was not aware, that this reflected back on them and their self-worth or that they might be really hurt by me looking at pictures or videos of legions of women. Both women told me that btw - but I put it aside, didn't think it was that big of deal (after all, porn is not real live women or cheating - is what I thought).

On top of that, the desensitization from porn negatively affected my feelings and I did not give my best in the relationships, since I diluted and weakened my libido and also my love with porn. My numbness sure hurt them as well.

In short, I was selfish and ignorant.

In hindsight, it was stupid. I started trying to change, once I learned about the negative effects of porn and especially reading the accounts of reboot partners, which made me understand their side a little bit better. But that also came slowly. I started to reboot to help with my P.I.ED and even then it took a few more months for me to realize, that this does not affect me alone (besides from the obvious not being able to have sex).

In the beginning of my reboot, my partner said she hears what I am saying about P.I.ED, but deep down inside her she can't stop thinking she is the issue herself. That she is not attractive and that is the reason, why I don't get turned on by her. And she can't make that nagging voice stop, even though I keep telling her differently. She even said, she wants to try and work on herself, so that she looks like p-star [sic], so I start to get turned on by her....

She also says, she will very likely leave me if I go back to using p. I believe her.

In the meantime, I've got a few more things to do just for me to keep my spirits up. I think I'm going to do a week of juice fasting. I don't know how healthy that is, but it does make me feel good even if I hate the sight of kale by the end of the week.



Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on June 02, 2014, 11:20:33 AM
Thanks for you encouragement, LTE. I am very grateful for your input. I really don't have anyone I can talk to that would a) understand the problem or b) understand the need for a higher road.

I feel great this morning. I am ready to take on the day with some of the old verve.

He will return from his retreat trip sometime tomorrow. We haven't spoken for about 5 days. He was loving and upbeat the last time we spoke. The last big conversation was about the assistant. He has had time to think about it and the boundaries that were crossed. It will be interesting to find out if he's come to any conclusions other than "no sex means no foul". I read a post from Mart71 that really expressed the issue from the guy side.

I am not married, but I had two SO's who were directly affected by me using porn. They both knew I used.

To answer your question, I didn't realize or maybe ignored I caused them harm. I had bad ED with both of them, and I thought that it was my problem and not theirs. I was not aware, that this reflected back on them and their self-worth or that they might be really hurt by me looking at pictures or videos of legions of women. Both women told me that btw - but I put it aside, didn't think it was that big of deal (after all, porn is not real live women or cheating - is what I thought).

On top of that, the desensitization from porn negatively affected my feelings and I did not give my best in the relationships, since I diluted and weakened my libido and also my love with porn. My numbness sure hurt them as well.

In short, I was selfish and ignorant.

In hindsight, it was stupid. I started trying to change, once I learned about the negative effects of porn and especially reading the accounts of reboot partners, which made me understand their side a little bit better. But that also came slowly. I started to reboot to help with my P.I.ED and even then it took a few more months for me to realize, that this does not affect me alone (besides from the obvious not being able to have sex).

In the beginning of my reboot, my partner said she hears what I am saying about P.I.ED, but deep down inside her she can't stop thinking she is the issue herself. That she is not attractive and that is the reason, why I don't get turned on by her. And she can't make that nagging voice stop, even though I keep telling her differently. She even said, she wants to try and work on herself, so that she looks like p-star [sic], so I start to get turned on by her....

She also says, she will very likely leave me if I go back to using p. I believe her.

In the meantime, I've got a few more things to do just for me to keep my spirits up. I think I'm going to do a week of juice fasting. I don't know how healthy that is, but it does make me feel good even if I hate the sight of kale by the end of the week.
I'm starting a juice fast today, myself. I've done it before and it's great. Buy some chewing gum. By the end of tomorrow you'll know why
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: STR on June 02, 2014, 05:56:20 PM
I have an acquaintance who's parents divorced when he was a young man. He has to visit his parents separately, can never invite them to the same family gatherings, and has spent the last twenty years or so as a referee. My point here is that divorce may seem an attractive choice, but even when the children are grown it causes a lot of trouble for family members. Fighting to save your marriage is, at least IMO, taking the high road.

My parents divorced when I was 1-year old, and I have only seen them in the same place together twice in my entire life. I've spent my life making separate trips every year to see them, which is both expensive and inconvenient. Staying together "for the kids" isn't necessarily the best reason to stay together, but it's a good enough reason to start with.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on June 02, 2014, 06:17:22 PM
I have an acquaintance who's parents divorced when he was a young man. He has to visit his parents separately, can never invite them to the same family gatherings, and has spent the last twenty years or so as a referee. My point here is that divorce may seem an attractive choice, but even when the children are grown it causes a lot of trouble for family members. Fighting to save your marriage is, at least IMO, taking the high road.

My parents divorced when I was 1-year old, and I have only seen them in the same place together twice in my entire life. I've spent my life making separate trips every year to see them, which is both expensive and inconvenient. Staying together "for the kids" isn't necessarily the best reason to stay together, but it's a good enough reason to start with.
No matter who you are married to there is compromise. Sometimes it may be better to work with what you have than to believe that you can trade up.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: STR on June 02, 2014, 06:23:53 PM
Quote
No matter who you are married to there is compromise. Sometimes it may be better to work with what you have than to believe that you can trade up.

Yeah, I have read some great books over the past few years on commitment that really made a big change in my thinking and behavior. I also had a very helpful meeting with a pastor over a year ago in which he asked me how I knew that my wife was the right person for me, and his answer was "You married her".
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on June 02, 2014, 06:29:09 PM
Quote
No matter who you are married to there is compromise. Sometimes it may be better to work with what you have than to believe that you can trade up.

Yeah, I have read some great books over the past few years on commitment that really made a big change in my thinking and behavior. I also had a very helpful meeting with a pastor over a year ago in which he asked me how I knew that my wife was the right person for me, and his answer was "You married her".
I think we, collectively as a society, have forgotten that important lesson. I can state from experience that divorce is not the road to happiness.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on June 02, 2014, 06:41:14 PM
I have an acquaintance who's parents divorced when he was a young man. He has to visit his parents separately, can never invite them to the same family gatherings, and has spent the last twenty years or so as a referee. My point here is that divorce may seem an attractive choice, but even when the children are grown it causes a lot of trouble for family members. Fighting to save your marriage is, at least IMO, taking the high road.

My parents divorced when I was 1-year old, and I have only seen them in the same place together twice in my entire life. I've spent my life making separate trips every year to see them, which is both expensive and inconvenient. Staying together "for the kids" isn't necessarily the best reason to stay together, but it's a good enough reason to start with.

This has been very hard on our kids. They are pretty fantastic human beings that instinctively have understood there has been a change for the better in the household. Little eyes are always on us as parents. They see the sadness, the detachment, the neglect, hear the loving words and drink in the subtle affections in body language. My daughter's comments to me last summer, where she told me about her dream where we divorced, really started this whole journey.

I talk a lot about my self-esteem, but I've worked twice as diligently to provide opportunities for building their self-esteem. Husband is getting on this train more and more now. I will not abide them thinking any of the detachment was their fault or ever think that is "normal".

I am convinced there were some serious issues in my husband's house growing up. While there was not internet, the stacks and stacks of P during the Estate sale might be one clue combined with a seemingly hypocritical piety and absurd habit of calling others by vulgar, demeaning nicknames. Bleh, I don't like even thinking about this.

I love my parents so much.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on June 02, 2014, 07:27:21 PM
I have an acquaintance who's parents divorced when he was a young man. He has to visit his parents separately, can never invite them to the same family gatherings, and has spent the last twenty years or so as a referee. My point here is that divorce may seem an attractive choice, but even when the children are grown it causes a lot of trouble for family members. Fighting to save your marriage is, at least IMO, taking the high road.

My parents divorced when I was 1-year old, and I have only seen them in the same place together twice in my entire life. I've spent my life making separate trips every year to see them, which is both expensive and inconvenient. Staying together "for the kids" isn't necessarily the best reason to stay together, but it's a good enough reason to start with.

This has been very hard on our kids. They are pretty fantastic human beings that instinctively have understood there has been a change for the better in the household. Little eyes are always on us as parents. They see the sadness, the detachment, the neglect, hear the loving words and drink in the subtle affections in body language. My daughter's comments to me last summer, where she told me about her dream where we divorced, really started this whole journey.

I talk a lot about my self-esteem, but I've worked twice as diligently to provide opportunities for building their self-esteem. Husband is getting on this train more and more now. I will not abide them thinking any of the detachment was their fault or ever think that is "normal".

I am convinced there were some serious issues in my husband's house growing up. While there was not internet, the stacks and stacks of P during the Estate sale might be one clue combined with a seemingly hypocritical piety and absurd habit of calling others by vulgar, demeaning nicknames. Bleh, I don't like even thinking about this.

I love my parents so much.
Porn in his family of origin could explain,a lot. It is pure poison.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Bibbity on June 03, 2014, 08:17:28 AM
It definitely takes two to keep a marriage intact.  Throwing oneself under the bus to "save the kids and marriage" is not a good idea either.  I don't advocate for divorce but I don't advocate for abuse either.  As long as SORP is thinking optimistically about the situation and thinks her partner is getting his crap together than that's great.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on June 03, 2014, 10:44:05 AM
It definitely takes two to keep a marriage intact.  Throwing oneself under the bus to "save the kids and marriage" is not a good idea either.  I don't advocate for divorce but I don't advocate for abuse either.  As long as SORP is thinking optimistically about the situation and thinks her partner is getting his crap together than that's great.

Thanks for your viewpoint, Bibbity.

"In sickness and in health" is something I said, a promise I made. I would not feel good about myself if I just chucked it out the window.

I have my limits, but it is up to me to define that.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Deuce26 on June 05, 2014, 12:29:15 PM
It definitely takes two to keep a marriage intact.  Throwing oneself under the bus to "save the kids and marriage" is not a good idea either.  I don't advocate for divorce but I don't advocate for abuse either.  As long as SORP is thinking optimistically about the situation and thinks her partner is getting his crap together than that's great.

Thanks for your viewpoint, Bibbity.

"In sickness and in health" is something I said, a promise I made. I would not feel good about myself if I just chucked it out the window.

I have my limits, but it is up to me to define that.

My wife said a few years ago to me.....I am waiting for the " for better" part to start.

We both laughed long and hard, because there had been a lot of good times.....we just forget sometimes to remember all the good and try to stop always emphasising the "for worse" part.....because there will be both, no matter what you do.

D
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on June 05, 2014, 01:10:43 PM
It definitely takes two to keep a marriage intact.  Throwing oneself under the bus to "save the kids and marriage" is not a good idea either.  I don't advocate for divorce but I don't advocate for abuse either.  As long as SORP is thinking optimistically about the situation and thinks her partner is getting his crap together than that's great.

Thanks for your viewpoint, Bibbity.

"In sickness and in health" is something I said, a promise I made. I would not feel good about myself if I just chucked it out the window.

I have my limits, but it is up to me to define that.

My wife said a few years ago to me.....I am waiting for the " for better" part to start.

We both laughed long and hard, because there had been a lot of good times.....we just forget sometimes to remember all the good and try to stop always emphasising the "for worse" part.....because there will be both, no matter what you do.

D
Wise words.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on June 12, 2014, 07:31:34 AM
I've been investing more of my energy in real life. Had a horrible moment last week. It all nearly ended.

It is very difficult to face what seems like rejection but is actually shame. I think I pulled through with some skin left, still ready to fight.

Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on June 12, 2014, 08:24:19 AM
I've been investing more of my energy in real life. Had a horrible moment last week. It all nearly ended.

It is very difficult to face what seems like rejection but is actually shame. I think I pulled through with some skin left, still ready to fight.
I'm sorry to hear that.

I agree with the thought regarding rejection and shame. It certainly rings true.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on June 15, 2014, 08:48:10 AM
I've had some good days and bad days since my last post. Mostly I can hold it together, but when I need comfort I need it from him.

Posting on the internet is great and all, and trust me, just knowing there are others with the same problem is helpful - but it is an alluring substitute for the real deal (kinda like P) for me. I can't heal with only this. I need real bonding and healing with my husband.

I've really begun to see how he is paralyzed by shame over this. All the pushing away and iron wall non-communication and cruelty - He is convinced I would be better without him. He does not want to deal with my pain. He does respect and love me. He does know my value. He feels deeply guilty about tossing me around. It bounds him, makes him unlikely to seek help from anyone, especially me.

My blackest moments are in the evening, morning and afternoon. They have no schedule. I can see how couples immediately divorce over this. The more I need his affections the more he pulls away, convinced he will only hurt me more because it takes more than one or two applications of affection to make it all better.

I need a Second Aid kit. First aid is for the physical, the cuts and abrasions, the burns. First aid stops the activity, halts the damage done. Second aid is for the fear and shame, the healing and regeneration of new.

Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on June 15, 2014, 10:31:01 AM
At least you have perspective on all of this. That has to help. It took a long time for this problem to develop; each party learning to parry and to counter-attack in the emotional fencing match that ensued. Now that the problem is identified, it's absolutely key to learn to work together, and that takes time, especially when both sides are on the defense.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on June 16, 2014, 06:59:38 AM
At least you have perspective on all of this. That has to help. It took a long time for this problem to develop; each party learning to parry and to counter-attack in the emotional fencing match that ensued. Now that the problem is identified, it's absolutely key to learn to work together, and that takes time, especially when both sides are on the defense.

Perspective is a struggle. It is a hard thing to live under siege all the time, step back and really understand that I have some serious cognitive dissonance - what we call "trust issues" and he does too. How can he trust himself to help me? How can I help him when I'm so damaged? We are back to really concentrating on the bonding behaviors. Work life is getting better and our reliance on each other on that front is growing. Business is very good. The assistant issue is fading away for me, he has been very helpful on that account.

This second reboot has been a step back or more accurately, less euphoric. We are not where we were, relieved and refreshed. We also aren't as prideful about our gains. I haven't decided if this is good or bad, but when we do make it through this I don't think we will take each other for granted.

We still couple like dangerous creatures, wary of fangs and razor soft claws. I find myself holding back, feel him doing the same.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on June 21, 2014, 06:05:55 AM
Good things to report. More connection, more communication, more understanding.

Bonding behaviors outside the bedroom are just as important I think, but maybe given less weight because we don't see the problem until something goes wrong in the sex life. But sex isn't the only component to living well. It isn't just working together in the office, it is around the house and out and about. Instead of looking at this as "I need some alone time" it is a joy to have him there with me in the grocery store. We are communicating needs more clearly and not just what we need sexually.

The irritation with each other is fading too. I don't think I realized how irritated I was with him; and he with me. Instead of waiting for the other to do or say something to fix this rent between us we are starting to just like the ordinariness of each other. We are fashioning a dependence instead of independence. It isn't romantic love, but something more quiet.


Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on June 21, 2014, 07:56:22 AM
Good things to report. More connection, more communication, more understanding.

Bonding behaviors outside the bedroom are just as important I think, but maybe given less weight because we don't see the problem until something goes wrong in the sex life. But sex isn't the only component to living well. It isn't just working together in the office, it is around the house and out and about. Instead of looking at this as "I need some alone time" it is a joy to have him there with me in the grocery store. We are communicating needs more clearly and not just what we need sexually.

The irritation with each other is fading too. I don't think I realized how irritated I was with him; and he with me. Instead of waiting for the other to do or say something to fix this rent between us we are starting to just like the ordinariness of each other. We are fashioning a dependence instead of independence. It isn't romantic love, but something more quiet.
That's a poetic description. I really like that statement about appreciating the ordinariness of each other. I think it cuts to the heart of the matter. It's a gift to have a partner with which you can walk through life. Just to appreciate the goodness and the unique gifts that your partner brings to the situation is a component of love that is seldom recognized in our society. Every person has strengths and weaknesses; sometimes we need to just take a moment to appreciate the strengths and accept that any partner would have weaknesses and that, whoever your particular partner happens to be, you will have to tolerate some set of weaknesses.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on June 27, 2014, 01:38:04 AM
Gracie made a really great post in the Rebooter Partner's forum that deserves more than a few dozen views.

http://www.rebootnation.org/forum/index.php?topic=913.0

Before clicking, let me warn some of you struggling with guilt - it can be a doozy if you aren't in the right frame of mind. The study cited brings home the point that P-addiction is deeply traumatic for the partner's secure attachment. Keeping in mind that this isn't about "blame" but rather looking at the study as a process review and a way to improve might stave off any feelings of guilt.

The study and analysis as a whole relies heavily on attachment theory - where human beings attach to others for safety or a "safe haven" throughout different stages of life. The paper rings true after a few readings of partner posts here and other reboot sites. Words like "trust" are a clear sign that attachment security is under siege.

Porn is ANTI-secure attachment. Nothing about P spices or enhances secure attachment. <=My opinion.

My husband is slowly coming around or he's deftly patronizing me when it comes to understanding this trauma. I have strings of days where I feel I can trust again and then something will trigger a lapse. It happens so swiftly and gnaws at me. My trust is an itchy thing, perhaps healing or abscessed. I can't tell which - my trust is so far gone at brief times I feel it difficult to trust myself.

Continuing to work on bonding has made those instances slowly less frequent, but creeping doubt seems to still find purchase.

I can attest to the trauma of this. Perhaps if I didn't have loving parents and had my trust ripped and broken early on I could deal with having the feeling of security violated. As it is, I sometimes look at it as post-traumatic stress, I see "snakes" and threats where there may be none. I have flight or fight moments. Sometimes I think the only escape is to divorce or run away, but the damage is with me now - I can't run from it, it is mine. I think the pain now means I relied deeply and wholly in being part of a couple.

I used to be so secure with myself, my life, my career!

Attachment theory may not be the only way to view the impact on partners, but for me I thank Gracie for posting this. It helped tremendously.

Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on June 27, 2014, 10:53:43 AM
One thing is for certain, porn and masturbation are relationship poison.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Gracie on June 27, 2014, 03:11:54 PM
SORP  you are welcome.  I really thought the study would be helpful for men and women.  The words the women said could have come from my own mouth.  I think it helps us understand the way we feel.  I could not for the longest time find the words to describe how out of balance I felt.  I know for me, I did not realize how much he meant to me until faced with this.  I truly feel like the women in the study did that talking to each other helps both find the words they need.  It takes away the wondering what is going through their mind on both sides wheter you are the PA or the spouse. 

I truly though more men would comment on the article, but not one has.  Even my husband found it helpful after all this time.  This is because there are occasional days that I just feel down.  When I think of it as the attachment being out of whack it makes it much easier to deal with. e And my husband lets me talk and talk when I need to. 

I am glad that this helped you.  I was also thrilled to see that someone had actually researched it.  I hope things are going better for you!
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: STR on June 27, 2014, 03:43:54 PM
The article was very interesting. I particularly liked the list of porn addiction features on page 212.

It's pretty tough to read about all of the pain that porn has caused to the wives of addicts. I consider myself to be very fortunate that my wife never found out about my addiction and thus never had any reason to lose trust in me. I am so happy that my wife never had to suffer through that, though she certainly suffered (unwittingly) from the negative affects of my addiction on my character and our relationship.

It's amazing how much better it feels to be honest with my wife now without keeping (dark) secrets from her. I don't intend to ever tell her about my former addiction, but I really feel like I am a completely new person now and that there would be no benefit to her in knowing about my past.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on June 27, 2014, 07:44:52 PM
SORP  you are welcome.  I really thought the study would be helpful for men and women.  The words the women said could have come from my own mouth.  I think it helps us understand the way we feel.  I could not for the longest time find the words to describe how out of balance I felt.  I know for me, I did not realize how much he meant to me until faced with this.  I truly feel like the women in the study did that talking to each other helps both find the words they need.  It takes away the wondering what is going through their mind on both sides wheter you are the PA or the spouse. 

I truly though more men would comment on the article, but not one has.  Even my husband found it helpful after all this time.  This is because there are occasional days that I just feel down.  When I think of it as the attachment being out of whack it makes it much easier to deal with. e And my husband lets me talk and talk when I need to. 

I am glad that this helped you.  I was also thrilled to see that someone had actually researched it.  I hope things are going better for you!

Things are improving. I tend to write the glum and wretched thoughts here, but I am happier. I appreciate you so much, Gracie. Not just for posting this but for taking the time to share a lot of painful experience and happy times too!

I think for me, just thinking in terms of my needs for security (and looking back through my journal one can really see how I've struggled with trust) helps me get back to climbing out of the hole this thing put me in.

This loss I feel is normal. I need to be gentle with myself and let myself heal.

I think for some of the recovering gents it is also very difficult to understand because they have had that part of understanding and attachment hijacked for so long, they've forgotten the simple joy of being secure.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on June 28, 2014, 04:25:51 PM
I just wanted to say this was an awesome day. He made me breakfast and COFFEE! I haven't been feeling well and we've been working a lot the last few weeks, stressful stuff that impacts others. He had more work to do today, but said he'd be home at a certain time.

We've had discussions on my broken trust and he's really making the effort to fix that, without immature thoughts of "payback" or  "what about me?" just consistency and consideration.

Before he left, he kissed me long and hard, gave me the grabass and hinted at more tonight. I gave him the grabass right back and a pinch for luck.

It's good to have my man back around for today.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on June 28, 2014, 04:47:37 PM
I just wanted to say this was an awesome day. He made me breakfast and COFFEE! I haven't been feeling well and we've been working a lot the last few weeks, stressful stuff that impacts others. He had more work to do today, but said he'd be home at a certain time.

We've had discussions on my broken trust and he's really making the effort to fix that, without immature thoughts of "payback" or  "what about me?" just consistency and consideration.

Before he left, he kissed me long and hard, gave me the grabass and hinted at more tonight. I gave him the grabass right back and a pinch for luck.

It's good to have my man back around for today.
That was heartwarming to read. Nothing is more beautiful than love in action and it sounds like he's able to express love healthily now that porn is out of the picture.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on July 03, 2014, 09:29:09 PM
I've been really sick lately, waking up in the middle of the night gasping for breath. It felt like an asthma attack.

I went to the doctor and found out I have GERD or acid reflux. I had no idea that symptoms could mimic asthma or even panic attacks. The kicker here is that while I would wake up several times a night feeling like I was choking and unable to take a deep breath - I was taking a deep breath!

My blood oxygen level was 98%, yet I felt like I couldn't get any air! Even knowing this, waking up unable to breathe is scary. I hate it when the subjective does not align with the objective reality!

Anyway, I'm taking steps and hubs is being super supportive. Sex is on hold, cuddling is difficult and we are managing. Gotta let the treatment kick in!
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on July 03, 2014, 11:48:25 PM
I've been really sick lately, waking up in the middle of the night gasping for breath. It felt like an asthma attack.

I went to the doctor and found out I have GERD or acid reflux. I had no idea that symptoms could mimic asthma or even panic attacks. The kicker here is that while I would wake up several times a night feeling like I was choking and unable to take a deep breath - I was taking a deep breath!

My blood oxygen level was 98%, yet I felt like I couldn't get any air! Even knowing this, waking up unable to breathe is scary. I hate it when the subjective does not align with the objective reality!

Anyway, I'm taking steps and hubs is being super supportive. Sex is on hold, cuddling is difficult and we are managing. Gotta let the treatment kick in!
You've been through a lot along the way and have been a real trooper. Hopefully the treatment will kick in soon and you'll be back to normal in no time. I've had a handful of GERD incidents and know that they are no fun. Hang in sister, you're doing fine.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Gracie on July 07, 2014, 08:58:40 PM
Hey SO are you doing okay?  Just checking in on you. 
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on July 12, 2014, 08:05:52 PM
Hey SO are you doing okay?  Just checking in on you.

Hi Gracie,

You are so kind to think of me. (While I haven't mentioned it, I love your new avatar.)

I've been recovering well, staying calm while taking a couple of tests. Husband has been amazing. I haven't missed any work, although I did drag in a few hours late a few days - my own work ethic and the fact it really is just us running this show. This week was a stressful one, especially for him and he still made time to help me this Saturday morning and not just checking out and vegging out in front of the television. This is a huge change in character, or return I should say. He also recognized my support of him.

We've had some pretty honest conversations that were not he-said/she-said regarding our future and security. It is and always will be more than just sex for me. It is about being functioning human beings.

It will be a year in a couple of weeks, the anniversary of when I caught him, when we started this return.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Gracie on July 13, 2014, 10:09:56 AM
SO  thanks for the compliment on my avatar.  I can be a rather silly person and with the age 62 birthday coming up, I thought it was appropo.  I am glad you are doing better.  I was worried.  I know how easy it is to go down the rabbit hole.  Sometimes it takes one second. 

I know the anniversary of discovery is tough.  We just passed 2 years in May.  But in my mind it was yesterday.   But we are closer than ever.  And we still have moments.  Or rather I have moments.  Please keep us updated. 
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on July 17, 2014, 07:37:39 AM
Hubs was talking last night about things to do this weekend. This is a big deal. We've been enduring the malaise, the low libido the setbacks and impossibility of a normal life again that something that should be common and unremarkable is extraordinary.

Had some unbridled, giggling, fumbly-fun-time this week. Noticed some back-wash in the following two days. Whew, I think that has passed, but what a crabby-crab for a few hours there. He did persevere and even told me it was getting easier to "stick to the program".

I'm sleeping through the night again, avoiding the wandering and sleeping on the couch. I think this means I'm healing too. I feel a lot more relaxed and secure.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on July 17, 2014, 07:40:49 AM
Hubs was talking last night about things to do this weekend. This is a big deal. We've been enduring the malaise, the low libido the setbacks and impossibility of a normal life again that something that should be common and unremarkable is extraordinary.

Had some unbridled, giggling, fumbly-fun-time this week. Noticed some back-wash in the following two days. Whew, I think that has passed, but what a crabby-crab for a few hours there. He did persevere and even told me it was getting easier to "stick to the program".

I'm sleeping through the night again, avoiding the wandering and sleeping on the couch. I think this means I'm healing too. I feel a lot more relaxed and secure.
I'm glad for,both of you.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on July 23, 2014, 07:29:31 AM
The one year anniversary of finding YBOP and beginning this journey is just two days away.

So much fallow ground from PMO to break up and seed with life again, for him and me. I feel like we're a million miles from that couple a year ago.

I will write more on this, because I need to write more and remember, document how we almost lost it all and found the strength to bring some of it back.

SORP



Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on July 23, 2014, 08:58:04 AM
The one year anniversary of finding YBOP and beginning this journey is just two days away.

So much fallow ground from PMO to break up and seed with life again, for him and me. I feel like we're a million miles from that couple a year ago.

I will write more on this, because I need to write more and remember, document how we almost lost it all and found the strength to bring some of it back.

SORP
It's amazing that you think of it in these terms. That's very poetic. My best to the both of you.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Gracie on July 24, 2014, 08:49:40 PM
The one year anniversary of finding YBOP and beginning this journey is just two days away.

So much fallow ground from PMO to break up and seed with life again, for him and me. I feel like we're a million miles from that couple a year ago.

I will write more on this, because I need to write more and remember, document how we almost lost it all and found the strength to bring some of it back.

SORP
So much truth in what you have written.  We too talk about almost losing it all.  I actually remember telling him I did not know if I could get past what I discovered.  I did not like being around him at all.  And then we started the hard work of fighting for our marriage.  Not fighting each other, but hacking through to find one another again.  Oh my gosh when I think of the emotional pain and the physical reaction (thumping heart, cold sweats, palpitations, no sleep etc) and the fact that I thought I would die, and if I didn't I would just do it myself.  And we worked and worked to get where we are now.  And still sometimes I get this little blip...   
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on July 25, 2014, 06:32:33 AM
The one year anniversary of finding YBOP and beginning this journey is just two days away.

So much fallow ground from PMO to break up and seed with life again, for him and me. I feel like we're a million miles from that couple a year ago.

I will write more on this, because I need to write more and remember, document how we almost lost it all and found the strength to bring some of it back.

SORP
So much truth in what you have written.  We too talk about almost losing it all.  I actually remember telling him I did not know if I could get past what I discovered.  I did not like being around him at all.  And then we started the hard work of fighting for our marriage.  Not fighting each other, but hacking through to find one another again.  Oh my gosh when I think of the emotional pain and the physical reaction (thumping heart, cold sweats, palpitations, no sleep etc) and the fact that I thought I would die, and if I didn't I would just do it myself.  And we worked and worked to get where we are now.  And still sometimes I get this little blip...

Those "blips". I know about these.

I've come to look at the "blip" as the overwhelming insecurity, anger, fearfulness, guilt and doubt that appears suddenly, like one of those sinkholes that will consume a home or eat a car. When I look at traumatic stress disorder symptoms, I see reflections myself and I am ashamed of it.

But these blips are not mine alone. I could probably handle them with a little more aplomb if it was just me, but it isn't. He and I are both damaged, hobbling along, supporting the other while trying to cultivate a thriving relationship again. It is such an improvement from where we were before, we find a small victory in just being still together.

Relationships are like gardens, you have to till the soil, plant pumpkins between the rows of sweet corn and be careful how much manure you spread around so everything doesn't burn out. Of course water with trust and genuine affection.

It has been a long road, Gracie. I can laugh again. But every so often I see a snake that may or may not be there.





Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Gracie on July 25, 2014, 08:12:41 PM
Hw well I know of what you speak.  It is amazing how similar the so's of the porn people feel.  The snakes, how well I know the snakes.  And am hypervigilant watching for them so I do not get caught unawares again.  I can handle things straight up and straight on, it is the sneak up on me things that I short circuit about.  I think the blips come from little things that I think I should have paid attention to before but thought they were nothing.  And the post trauma is surely there.  I know the signs from my work.  But remember the trauma caused is not something we own.  We have nothing to be ashamed of.  We are simply healing. 
But I as I have always said, I would rather know and work together on the issue than to have never known this was the issue.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on July 27, 2014, 12:15:41 AM
One year and one day after beginning this journey I can say things are much, much better.

Today husband got up, made a list of things needed from the hardware store. He ran out and picked up a few items before coming home and going to the grocery store with me.

He got out an old box game this afternoon. Young whipper-snappers may not be aware, but bookcase games like Rail Baron and Cross of Iron build strategic skills and connections between players in ways video games really can't. With bookcase games, there is no program to keep players in check, you have to read, comprehend and play by the rules on your own. The brain is the software platform here.  Husband mentioned he and number one son have been spending too much time playing video games and he had an idea to address this.

They spent the afternoon teaching / learning this old game from the late 70's/ early 80's together and had a blast.

Last year, he had no interest in doing anything with his own children. While on vacation, he stayed in the hotel room with the ipad while I took the kids out - "working" and "reading emails".

PMO is stole a lot from us as a family. It hijacked our marriage. It stole time and connection from our kids. I know this whole mess has affected me hard. But today, seeing him looking forward, hearing him laugh with our son, feeling his complete gratitude for not being that man from a year ago - it is all worth it.

There will always be threats to happiness, bad decisions to make and distractions that take one or more partner on a wrong path. Being married means you don't do it alone.

I bought him a Joy Division tshirt this week. "Love will tear us apart" was on one of the first mix tapes (omg I'm old) he made for me when we were dating. He was a little miffed I did this because it seemed like I was commemorating the one year anniversary of a great transgression. He wore it to the grocery store today.

I've learned to listen in the past year. The language of dysfunction is a ghost in our home - condescension, dismissive omission, unreasonable indignation and other cues have all but disappeared. There is a new air of mutual respect for each other.

He told me this week that PMO was a real problem for him. This is a huge thing. Several months ago he was ready to throw in the towel, just get a divorce, because rebooting, giving up PMO seemed like an impossible task. I told him then and I believe it now, he wasn't in his right mind to make that kind of decision or to handle my brand of "let's get it done" if the goal of the relationship is changed. I kicked his legs uncrossed and used profanity when I expressed this to him, one of the few times I've done that.

As he heals and improves, I heal. We aren't where we want to be in our marriage. We have more work to do. He still has moments where he has irrational outbursts, almost always at work. I don't know if this is from the PMO or the toxic work environment he was in for so many years. I still see threats and have emotional breakdowns over seemingly nothing. These are becoming less frequent, but our understanding and compassion for each other when they do occur is getting stronger.

Rebooting, fixing the PIED, saving a marriage encompasses a lot more than just stopping the PMO. It is a lot of work. Add to that some security issues, shame, guilt and a dash of emotional stress and it's a real tough row to hoe. But, totally worth it.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on July 28, 2014, 10:34:40 AM
You've stayed the course, but, as you say, it is totally worth it. Much happiness to both of you.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on July 29, 2014, 07:00:23 AM
I feel like a goof posting song lyrics, but shoot if this isn't relevant.

JOY DIVISION LYRICS
"Love Will Tear Us Apart"

When routine bites hard,
And ambitions are low,
And resentment rides high,
But emotions won't grow,
And we're changing our ways,
Taking different roads.

Then love, love will tear us apart again.
Love, love will tear us apart again.

Why is the bedroom so cold?
You've turned away on your side.
Is my timing that flawed?
Our respect runs so dry.
Yet there's still this appeal
That we've kept through our lives.

But love, love will tear us apart again.
Love, love will tear us apart again.

You cry out in your sleep,
All my failings exposed.
And there's a taste in my mouth,
As desperation takes hold.
Just that something so good
Just can't function no more.

But love, love will tear us apart again.
Love, love will tear us apart again.
Love, love will tear us apart again.
Love, love will tear us apart again.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on July 31, 2014, 06:43:59 AM
Everything feels copacetic this morning, in excellent order.

Isn't that what we all strive for, an "excellent order" in our lives? (Of course if something is excellent all the time, it ceases to be excellent and only average.)

This week I noticed some dysfunctional communication creeping in. (In the throes of PMO these were condescension, scapegoating, dismissive omission, disconnection, gas-lighting and my favorite - ambiguous gibberish or doublespeak.) Dysfunctional communication is similar to PMO in that the user feels a little bump of satisfaction in the moment, but it is unhealthy for relationships because it is irrational and is completely addictive because it usually works as a "win", until there is a complete breakdown. Not copacetic.

I don't know if these observations make sense to anyone else or need other labels.








Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on August 02, 2014, 08:29:48 AM
Getting stronger everyday, although I am learning that a few great days can be followed with some "blips" as Gracie calls them.

I had a little blip this morning. I woke up to an empty bed. He had gotten up early and headed to the office. In the dark days, this would mean he was PMOing for several hours (or all day) at the office. I can tell now if this is the case by his voice. There is a deep annoyance and dismissiveness that he can't quite hide. But when I talked to him this morning, he sounded happy and genuinely glad I checked up on him.

I also could see the emails he sent and the work he had done this morning. I can also tell from his work, or at least get a hint of his state of mind. For him, PMO draws out a selfishness and disconnected perspective, a logic that is blind to other possibilities. It is a problem in his line of work.

He has been doing some of his best work as of late. I know most posts gauge the success of a reboot on erections and relationships, and yeah that is improving here - but his work is really starting to show some of the old brilliance and has gained note in the industry. I can't help but think this is due to all the hard work we've done this year.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on August 02, 2014, 08:37:55 AM
Getting stronger everyday, although I am learning that a few great days can be followed with some "blips" as Gracie calls them.

I had a little blip this morning. I woke up to an empty bed. He had gotten up early and headed to the office. In the dark days, this would mean he was PMOing for several hours (or all day) at the office. I can tell now if this is the case by his voice. There is a deep annoyance and dismissiveness that he can't quite hide. But when I talked to him this morning, he sounded happy and genuinely glad I checked up on him.

I also could see the emails he sent and the work he had done this morning. I can also tell from his work, or at least get a hint of his state of mind. For him, PMO draws out a selfishness and disconnected perspective, a logic that is blind to other possibilities. It is a problem in his line of work.

He has been doing some of his best work as of late. I know most posts gauge the success of a reboot on erections and relationships, and yeah that is improving here - but his work is really starting to show some of the old brilliance and has gained note in the industry. I can't help but think this is due to all the hard work we've done this year.
Those are interesting insights, SORP.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on August 04, 2014, 07:18:20 AM
I've debated posting an entry on this subject. ********** POSSIBLE TRIGGER WARNING **************

I haven't gone full-blown, kick the lamp off the nightstand O with my husband since the great discovery. It was long before that, but I'm being positive here. I did have a little fluttering rumble once or twice, but for the most part, my once dependable (every time, hair-trigger Annie Oakley shootin' at the stars, whoopin' and hollerin') lady-works go to a certain plateau and then just stop.

During our sexless marriage, I did M and always O'd, usually crying afterwards because it did little to slake my thirst for intimacy and left me empty. Toys leave me feeling cheap and desperate when I should feel luxurious and fulfilled - hooray for those satisfied with that, but it isn't for me.

This isn't about just climbing that mountain and free-falling into that delicious bath of warm butter on the other side. There is nothing physically wrong here. I can O, just not with him, yet. My body responds, pleasantly, but not completely. This is not a lady area issue.

I do have my husband back, now I need my lover back too. I think I have been so focused on rewiring, rebooting him that I've ignored the cold fact my wires are burned out. I become frustrated and let little voices nag at me, "you should be grateful for what you have" and "you aren't exactly a spring chicken" - that is such bullshit, and yet I can't help listen.

I haven't MO'd for six months, still nothing. I can get lost in his touch at times, but I still pull back, temper the moment with how clinical it has become compared to before. He's concentrating on touch and feel, becoming aroused, but all the feelings of security and communication of affection he has for me outside the bedroom have to be conjured up by me for me in the bedroom. It is an O'Henry worthy irony that I must fantasize so he doesn't.


Porn is such a shitty thing.

Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on August 04, 2014, 07:23:22 AM
I've debated posting an entry on this subject. ********** POSSIBLE TRIGGER WARNING **************

I haven't gone full-blown, kick the lamp off the nightstand O with my husband since the great discovery. It was long before that, but I'm being positive here. I did have a little fluttering rumble once or twice, but for the most part, my once dependable (every time, hair-trigger Annie Oakley shootin' at the stars, whoopin' and hollerin') lady-works go to a certain plateau and then just stop.

During our sexless marriage, I did M and always O'd, usually crying afterwards because it did little to slake my thirst for intimacy and left me empty. Toys leave me feeling cheap and desperate when I should feel luxurious and fulfilled - hooray for those satisfied with that, but it isn't for me.

This isn't about just climbing that mountain and free-falling into that delicious bath of warm butter on the other side. There is nothing physically wrong here. I can O, just not with him, yet. My body responds, pleasantly, but not completely. This is not a lady area issue.

I do have my husband back, now I need my lover back too. I think I have been so focused on rewiring, rebooting him that I've ignored the cold fact my wires are burned out. I become frustrated and let little voices nag at me, "you should be grateful for what you have" and "you aren't exactly a spring chicken" - that is such bullshit, and yet I can't help listen.

I haven't MO'd for six months, still nothing. I can get lost in his touch at times, but I still pull back, temper the moment with how clinical it has become compared to before. He's concentrating on touch and feel, becoming aroused, but all the feelings of security and communication of affection he has for me outside the bedroom have to be conjured up by me for me in the bedroom. It is an O'Henry worthy irony that I must fantasize so he doesn't.


Porn is such a shitty thing.
All I can think of is that sexual satisfaction comes from intimacy and the exchange of emotional energy by the partners. Hopefully, as he heals the energy will flow more freely.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: STR on August 05, 2014, 12:55:33 PM
During our sexless marriage, I did M and always O'd, usually crying afterwards because it did little to slake my thirst for intimacy and left me empty. Toys leave me feeling cheap and desperate when I should feel luxurious and fulfilled - hooray for those satisfied with that, but it isn't for me.

Not to get too personal, but it is very difficult for my wife to O through penetration alone. It can happen, but not easily or reliably. Before I bought her the first vibrator she ever owned about 4 years ago, she had always M'd using her hand. That worked, but it caused pain in her arm. The vibrator has made a big difference for us. She can O multiple times within a 10-15 minute period, without straining her arm. I can also feel the vibrator on me when she's using it during penetration, which adds to my stimulation.

She was hesitant to use it at first, in part because of similar reservations to those that you have expressed. But she's 100% on board with it now, and so am I. She does M by herself once in a while (when she's particularly stressed out), but she prefers to use the vibe when we're together. In my view, she has nothing to feel bad about. 
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on August 06, 2014, 09:22:33 PM
I know how I feel and felt when my husband, my lover, utilized P to achieve O. It made me feel less; it made me less in his eyes.

To be needed, wanted, desired is a part of sexual communication I am not ready to give up for myself or for my partner. To use vibes is to say to him "you aren't enough" for me. As hurt as I have been over his P use, it would be hypocritical for me to do so. It is vindictive in my thinking.

I think if he tried to push me into using them I would feel like he was lazy, uninterested in sharing pleasure with me or simply saw my body as something that blindly responds to objects instead of an extension of my being that expresses a desire for him and our union - and that right there is probably the issue now. Years of P has made my body nothing but a bundle of sexual response points in his mind, not something to relish because it belongs to me and I offer to share it with him.

I don't think the reboot rewiring has helped much in this regard. The selfishness that is part and parcel of PMO is still there, while the ED may be gone.

And yes, I do have more than one vibe. They are probably broken with leaking batteries. I think I'll throw them out in the morning. It isn't what I need.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on August 06, 2014, 11:50:17 PM
I know how I feel and felt when my husband, my lover, utilized P to achieve O. It made me feel less; it made me less in his eyes.

To be needed, wanted, desired is a part of sexual communication I am not ready to give up for myself or for my partner. To use vibes is to say to him "you aren't enough" for me. As hurt as I have been over his P use, it would be hypocritical for me to do so. It is vindictive in my thinking.

I think if he tried to push me into using them I would feel like he was lazy, uninterested in sharing pleasure with me or simply saw my body as something that blindly responds to objects instead of an extension of my being that expresses a desire for him and our union - and that right there is probably the issue now. Years of P has made my body nothing but a bundle of sexual response points in his mind, not something to relish because it belongs to me and I offer to share it with him.

I don't think the reboot rewiring has helped much in this regard. The selfishness that is part and parcel of PMO is still there, while the ED may be gone.

And yes, I do have more than one vibe. They are probably broken with leaking batteries. I think I'll throw them out in the morning. It isn't what I need.
I tend to agree. This goes back to my aphorism regarding the fact that we can have real sex or make believe sex, but not both. At this point in time, at least for my sensibilities, I am holding out for real sex, as an expression of real love. Nothing less will do the trick.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on August 08, 2014, 07:10:38 AM
I know how I feel and felt when my husband, my lover, utilized P to achieve O. It made me feel less; it made me less in his eyes.

To be needed, wanted, desired is a part of sexual communication I am not ready to give up for myself or for my partner. To use vibes is to say to him "you aren't enough" for me. As hurt as I have been over his P use, it would be hypocritical for me to do so. It is vindictive in my thinking.

I think if he tried to push me into using them I would feel like he was lazy, uninterested in sharing pleasure with me or simply saw my body as something that blindly responds to objects instead of an extension of my being that expresses a desire for him and our union - and that right there is probably the issue now. Years of P has made my body nothing but a bundle of sexual response points in his mind, not something to relish because it belongs to me and I offer to share it with him.

I don't think the reboot rewiring has helped much in this regard. The selfishness that is part and parcel of PMO is still there, while the ED may be gone.

And yes, I do have more than one vibe. They are probably broken with leaking batteries. I think I'll throw them out in the morning. It isn't what I need.
I tend to agree. This goes back to my aphorism regarding the fact that we can have real sex or make believe sex, but not both. At this point in time, at least for my sensibilities, I am holding out for real sex, as an expression of real love. Nothing less will do the trick.

I think one of my strengths/pitfalls in all this is how my "standard" for what is real sex is and is not has evolved.

Our brains are the most important sex organs. My brain has been been through some trauma with regards to sex and pleasure. I'm trying like crazy to work through it, not exceptionally well, but trying. Lots of thoughts and thinking, habituated thinking on the sexual problems, relationship issues AND the old comparative thinking and analysis - recollecting wondrous past experiences that may or may not compare to what-is-happening-right-now. Add to that some nice speculation on my partner's relationship with his assistant and viola It is a very "real" anxiety trap I'm setting for myself. Also a deformed standard.

I complain about his lovemaking without holding myself to the same high standard. I have habituated my own self right into this mess.

During this year of rebooting I have been the data gatherer. I listen and watch, gauge and record each and every little twitch. My earliest entries centered around firmness and rigidity, comparative ordinal scales of 1-10, translated to percentages, for erections. Pretty sexy and fulfilling when trying to overcome PIED, no? NO. No one really wants to sleep with a score keeper or someone with numbered paddles to hold up after lovemaking.

I may not be as bad as all that right now, but I have got to re-learn to be the lover I need to have and so does he. I think, maybe.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on August 08, 2014, 07:52:17 AM
I think one of my strengths/pitfalls in all this is how my "standard" for what is real sex is and is not has evolved.

Our brains are the most important sex organs. My brain has been been through some trauma with regards to sex and pleasure. I'm trying like crazy to work through it, not exceptionally well, but trying. Lots of thoughts and thinking, habituated thinking on the sexual problems, relationship issues AND the old comparative thinking and analysis - recollecting wondrous past experiences that may or may not compare to what-is-happening-right-now. Add to that some nice speculation on my partner's relationship with his assistant and viola It is a very "real" anxiety trap I'm setting for myself. Also a deformed standard.

I complain about his lovemaking without holding myself to the same high standard. I have habituated my own self right into this mess.

During this year of rebooting I have been the data gatherer. I listen and watch, gauge and record each and every little twitch. My earliest entries centered around firmness and rigidity, comparative ordinal scales of 1-10, translated to percentages, for erections. Pretty sexy and fulfilling when trying to overcome PIED, no? NO. No one really wants to sleep with a score keeper or someone with numbered paddles to hold up after lovemaking.

I may not be as bad as all that right now, but I have got to re-learn to be the lover I need to have and so does he. I think, maybe.
People that have lost their home to a hurricane tend to fixate on the weather. If you've ever been in a car accident you'll find that you are hyper alert for a while afterward and quite possibly a bit defensive when it comes to your space on the road.

You are, understandably, still in the process of re-normalizing your perceptions regarding your sex life. There's nothing particularly surprising about this.

You make a good point when you mention that the brain is the most important sex organ. The brain is powerful and perceptive. Before you knew that your partner was indulging PMO you knew that something was wrong. I am a strong believer that if the relationship is healthy on an emotional level then sexual satisfaction is going to follow. Perhaps more to the point, if the emotional aspects of a relationship are out of kilter sex, even textbook perfect sex, will not be satisfying.

Sex, by it's nature, demands a partner. If it didn't, the human race would have long ago masturbated itself into extinction. Both partners have to be on board and they have to bring their most important sex organ to the game without hindrance. If one partner is living in a fantasy of porn then the ability to bring that brain without hindrance is lost. It's only natural that the other partner will start to look for explanations.

IMHO, it comes down to the same answer as it always has, it takes time to recover. The porn-addicted partner is relearning much about their approach to life and where sex fits in. The other partner is slowly rebuilding trust. There's no doubt in my mind that the two of you are making progress, but, no matter what, regaining trust and stability is an ongoing process. Porn addicts in recovery tend to peel away the layers and find that their tastes and sexual obsessions dissipate in the reverse order that they evolved. I suspect that partners rebuild trust in a similar manner, revisiting old concerns in the reverse order as trust is re established. In the long view, it works, but in the short view it must be pretty chaotic.

From your comments here at RN I get the impression that things have improved greatly and that your relationship is growing ever healthier. Be patient with him, but be patient with yourself too; you've been through a lot.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on August 08, 2014, 06:05:44 PM
I think I passed through one of those blips in the past couple of days. I feel so much better this afternoon.

Blips are like heavy rain clouds that pass through. They are the doubt, the nagging voice that says "why even try?" or "let's count failures, shall we?" I'm starting to get the hang of identifying these blip "triggers", my reaction and the inevitable mope that seems to follow.

Here's what I see so far - Triggers for me can be stressers like too much work piling up for me to be comfortable, kids vocalizing an urgency like "school clothes" or other demands on my time. If my husband gets too quiet, I start speculating myself into a pretzel. Also, if I make any mistakes I feel off track and will not get back on track like I used to.

I'm reacting to these things with more anxiety rather than positive action, not every time but enough times to be annoying. I then gracefully do a swan dive into a pool of my own self-pitying effluence, expecting my partner to swim in after me because he can read my mind. (lol, gosh I am funny)

The connection is happening. We are learning again. Just have to watch out for those blips.

I wrote a few things on another post about social anxiety. I am a normally a fairly outgoing person, tracking on personality tests as neither really extroverted or introverted - I have both qualities in equal abundance and can switch between the two without a lot of problems. While during the darkest days, I definitely had social anxiety and depression. I would go to great lengths to avoid people. Shopping at 2:00AM in the morning so I wouldn't see anyone I knew? Yep, that was me. Party? Nope. I felt like everyone knew what a failure I was. I could feel their judgment. I think I've really come a long way since then.

Lte is right, this is a healing process.


Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on August 15, 2014, 06:38:02 AM
Adventures in security and attachment crisis seem to continue.

I started thinking about where I am right now and had another freak out. Working for free for the husband, business (corp) in his name, no contributions to my retirement or SS, his hot and cold recovery path, a wedding anniversary un-noticed, I look like crap, too much work to get done, if he decides to chuck it can I even get a job?

I put in three resumes online and got a serious inquiry call back the next day. The pay was about 20% less than what I made when I left that industry 5 years ago and truthfully the job was less than what I'm qualified for. And I'm 50, my kids need me as their safety net. I don't want them to become ghosts on this battlefield.

I just want to feel secure again, safe. I need that attachment. We've been together half our lives and now everyday is an unknown. I've endured the outbursts and done what I can to get him away from the PMO. He is healing, but now I need him to help heal this.

I apologize for the rant, I'm in a dark place right now and I don't like it.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on August 15, 2014, 06:51:52 AM
Adventures in security and attachment crisis seem to continue.

I started thinking about where I am right now and had another freak out. Working for free for the husband, business (corp) in his name, no contributions to my retirement or SS, his hot and cold recovery path, a wedding anniversary un-noticed, I look like crap, too much work to get done, if he decides to chuck it can I even get a job?

I put in three resumes online and got a serious inquiry call back the next day. The pay was about 20% less than what I made when I left that industry 5 years ago and truthfully the job was less than what I'm qualified for. And I'm 50, my kids need me as their safety net. I don't want them to become ghosts on this battlefield.

I just want to feel secure again, safe. I need that attachment. We've been together half our lives and now everyday is an unknown. I've endured the outbursts and done what I can to get him away from the PMO. He is healing, but now I need him to help heal this.

I apologize for the rant, I'm in a dark place right now and I don't like it.

Even if you are not being paid, I would document the hours you are putting into the business. I wish you nothing but success in your marriage, but should thee worst happen you need to be able to demonstrate that you. Effectively, made his retirement and SS contributions possible because of your work.

I speak from experience. When I was married, all of our retirement was I her name. When we split up I didn't get a cent.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Gracie on August 15, 2014, 01:42:32 PM
SORP  the attachment bond is so important to a marriage.  I don't think many realize how the porn addiciton damages it.  It is hard to get through the dark days.  Trust me I know.  The brain starts thinking and then it starts really thinking and then the spiral begins.  And then we doubt ourselves and our value.  Do you have a person that you can talk to?  Someone to help build you up?  You need to get you to a reasonable place before making any big decisions.

His porn addicition is something that happened to you do not let it be the definition.  Do not let it do that.  You are good person! 
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on August 16, 2014, 09:01:52 PM
Good advice from both of you. I started to write a response well over a dozen times and then deleted them.

I do think I need to talk to someone professionally. I hate this mental state I'm in. I don't want to have these blips, depression jags, whatever we call them anymore. I want them to stop, but I can't do it myself. I see these episodes possibly being mis-interpreted as attention getting, which is not true. Even though things are getting better, I need to help me now so I can handle the road ahead rather than just fretting over the unknown and how secure I feel because he makes a comment or whatever.

I've been thinking husband might help me, but truthfully, I would get tired pretty quickly of the never-ending spiral of doom I get stuck in. I think loading him down with this is wrong. I wasn't responsible for his PMO addiction and he's not responsible for my depression or anxiety.

I've been researching therapists, and I plan to set all this crazy aside for that. I think my applying for jobs was just something, anything that would be an action to get out of this rut.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on August 16, 2014, 10:04:52 PM
Good advice from both of you. I started to write a response well over a dozen times and then deleted them.

I do think I need to talk to someone professionally. I hate this mental state I'm in. I don't want to have these blips, depression jags, whatever we call them anymore. I want them to stop, but I can't do it myself. I see these episodes possibly being mis-interpreted as attention getting, which is not true. Even though things are getting better, I need to help me now so I can handle the road ahead rather than just fretting over the unknown and how secure I feel because he makes a comment or whatever.

I've been thinking husband might help me, but truthfully, I would get tired pretty quickly of the never-ending spiral of doom I get stuck in. I think loading him down with this is wrong. I wasn't responsible for his PMO addiction and he's not responsible for my depression or anxiety.

I've been researching therapists, and I plan to set all this crazy aside for that. I think my applying for jobs was just something, anything that would be an action to get out of this rut.
You've been through a lot. It might be just what you need.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Gracie on August 17, 2014, 06:46:04 AM
I only have one thing to say.  (well maybe more) If therapist suggests medication, do not turn it down.  The long term effects in dealing with this does cause as you know depression and anxiety.  And I will say this and my husband agrees with this sentiment, "If not for my Wellbutrin, I would be dead."  I was so depressed.  I could barely function.  The medication enabled me to think.  My brain was stuck on a "for next loop"  an old computer term.  It was the if then statement in basic to do a program.  I wrote a program and it literally did calculations over and over and did not stop to give an answer.  It was stuck.  The medication stops the obssessing.  It takes the spaghetti bowl of emotions and allows you to pull one strand of spaghetti out at a time.  Also get talk therapy.  That is so important, the need to be heard.  And I will once again say Love you Hate the Porn book and blog were amazing help to me and my husband.  He did not realize what he did and why he did it until we read these things.  And if your husband won't read with you, read it yourself, mark pertinent passages and leave it where he can see it.  He will pick it up.

I know there are those that are against medication.  But if not for it, there would be a lot more suicides.  Just my opinion.

Another helpful thing is to get a notebook and write one thing you were upset about.  Not all about it, but just the thing.  ( My husband looked at me funny) Then write 4 good things about yourself.  (I have a good smile.  I value my marriage.  I love my kids.  I rocked the outfit I wore today.  I help people)  Then close the book until the next day.  It helps your brain power down happily. 

I was glad to see you post.  Keep talking and we will be here for you!  You are worth the changes you are making.  Shine on Supernova!
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on August 17, 2014, 09:37:29 AM
I only have one thing to say.  (well maybe more) If therapist suggests medication, do not turn it down.  The long term effects in dealing with this does cause as you know depression and anxiety.  And I will say this and my husband agrees with this sentiment, "If not for my Wellbutrin, I would be dead."  I was so depressed.  I could barely function.  The medication enabled me to think.  My brain was stuck on a "for next loop"  an old computer term.  It was the if then statement in basic to do a program.  I wrote a program and it literally did calculations over and over and did not stop to give an answer.  It was stuck.  The medication stops the obssessing.  It takes the spaghetti bowl of emotions and allows you to pull one strand of spaghetti out at a time.  Also get talk therapy.  That is so important, the need to be heard.  And I will once again say Love you Hate the Porn book and blog were amazing help to me and my husband.  He did not realize what he did and why he did it until we read these things.  And if your husband won't read with you, read it yourself, mark pertinent passages and leave it where he can see it.  He will pick it up.

I know there are those that are against medication.  But if not for it, there would be a lot more suicides.  Just my opinion.

Another helpful thing is to get a notebook and write one thing you were upset about.  Not all about it, but just the thing.  ( My husband looked at me funny) Then write 4 good things about yourself.  (I have a good smile.  I value my marriage.  I love my kids.  I rocked the outfit I wore today.  I help people)  Then close the book until the next day.  It helps your brain power down happily. 

I was glad to see you post.  Keep talking and we will be here for you!  You are worth the changes you are making.  Shine on Supernova!

Thanks for your advice. It means a lot.

I have been through a lot. Turning 50, menopause, the big PMO reveal, starting a new business from the ground up, starting new job I really haven't done before, trying to reconnect and save the marriage ... the list is pretty extensive. While the PMO addiction has been a primary factor, it hasn't been the singular trigger here. Add to that pulling myself up from a pretty deep well of not-bathing-everyday depression after years of a sexless, dysfunctional marriage and I think I can admit that I am pretty strong and capable of making some good decisions. I am not a failure, I just need some help.

I have made the decision to stay and fight for my marriage and family. I feel like I've had to defend that at times against a tide of addiction symptoms including emotional office affairs and internal discussions on if I'm sexy enough, thin enough or too much of a push over - ie throwing myself under the bus.

I think the majority of women would just high tail it and divorce, but popularity doesn't make it the only right answer. I see divorce as adding another stressor; it doesn't address the issues for me. He hasn't chosen PMO over our marriage or me for quite awhile. He has chosen me. As big of a pecker head as he was during those days, I still want my real, addiction-free husband back. He would like to have his happy, strong wife too. I wouldn't mind it one bit.

Husband and I talked about the therapist. He is on board. He does understand how deeply this has affected me and that I need a little help getting better. He has also agreed to any couples therapy.

I think this is the right time. I don't know if it was a good idea a year ago.

Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: noises1990 on August 17, 2014, 12:11:16 PM
Your husband is very lucky to have you on his side!

May God protect your home and your marriage!
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on August 17, 2014, 12:32:19 PM
I only have one thing to say.  (well maybe more) If therapist suggests medication, do not turn it down.  The long term effects in dealing with this does cause as you know depression and anxiety.  And I will say this and my husband agrees with this sentiment, "If not for my Wellbutrin, I would be dead."  I was so depressed.  I could barely function.  The medication enabled me to think.  My brain was stuck on a "for next loop"  an old computer term.  It was the if then statement in basic to do a program.  I wrote a program and it literally did calculations over and over and did not stop to give an answer.  It was stuck.  The medication stops the obssessing.  It takes the spaghetti bowl of emotions and allows you to pull one strand of spaghetti out at a time.  Also get talk therapy.  That is so important, the need to be heard.  And I will once again say Love you Hate the Porn book and blog were amazing help to me and my husband.  He did not realize what he did and why he did it until we read these things.  And if your husband won't read with you, read it yourself, mark pertinent passages and leave it where he can see it.  He will pick it up.

I know there are those that are against medication.  But if not for it, there would be a lot more suicides.  Just my opinion.

Another helpful thing is to get a notebook and write one thing you were upset about.  Not all about it, but just the thing.  ( My husband looked at me funny) Then write 4 good things about yourself.  (I have a good smile.  I value my marriage.  I love my kids.  I rocked the outfit I wore today.  I help people)  Then close the book until the next day.  It helps your brain power down happily. 

I was glad to see you post.  Keep talking and we will be here for you!  You are worth the changes you are making.  Shine on Supernova!

Thanks for your advice. It means a lot.

I have been through a lot. Turning 50, menopause, the big PMO reveal, starting a new business from the ground up, starting new job I really haven't done before, trying to reconnect and save the marriage ... the list is pretty extensive. While the PMO addiction has been a primary factor, it hasn't been the singular trigger here. Add to that pulling myself up from a pretty deep well of not-bathing-everyday depression after years of a sexless, dysfunctional marriage and I think I can admit that I am pretty strong and capable of making some good decisions. I am not a failure, I just need some help.

I have made the decision to stay and fight for my marriage and family. I feel like I've had to defend that at times against a tide of addiction symptoms including emotional office affairs and internal discussions on if I'm sexy enough, thin enough or too much of a push over - ie throwing myself under the bus.

I think the majority of women would just high tail it and divorce, but popularity doesn't make it the only right answer. I see divorce as adding another stressor; it doesn't address the issues for me. He hasn't chosen PMO over our marriage or me for quite awhile. He has chosen me. As big of a pecker head as he was during those days, I still want my real, addiction-free husband back. He would like to have his happy, strong wife too. I wouldn't mind it one bit.

Husband and I talked about the therapist. He is on board. He does understand how deeply this has affected me and that I need a little help getting better. He has also agreed to any couples therapy.

I think this is the right time. I don't know if it was a good idea a year ago.
I think you are making the right decision. Marriage is not disposable and starting over can be a living hell. I've started over several times and would rather die than have to start over again. What you have with your husband is not perfect, but then again, nothing ever will be. He's working to improve and he lives you. You love him too and those two things are invaluable.

If you need medications along the way give it a shot. I take an antidepressant daily and have for years. I feel no side effects and the prescription costs roughly 25 cents per day. It's cheap insurance against a meltdown. It doesn't make me giddy, I still experience the ups and downs of life, but the bottom doesn't drop out when things go badly.

Blessings to you and yours. 
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: MwC on August 21, 2014, 05:54:14 PM
Life and marriage is a challenge. Relatonships are a challenge. Personally I think the chase after perfection is the most certain way to avoid happiness in life. I would certainly not use mind altering drugs of any kind. They are addictive, and makes it hard to know when you are actually getting better. Drugs or life?

People heve different opinions about this I know, but I suffer trough a hangover rather than taking an asperin.... The pain reminds me to drink more carefully nex time :)
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on August 21, 2014, 07:17:49 PM
I made an appointment and I feel relieved. It isn't for a couple of weeks, but that is okay.

I am trying to focus on the issues I would like to address: lack of security, inadequacy, anxiety and the depression. I think these issues are keeping me from honesty, giving and receiving affection and living a life I can be proud of.

I think I have been stuck in a fight or flight cycle of emotions for a very long time and it has had both mental and physical costs. I need to learn a better way, to stop responding to the imaginary threats, deal with the real ones.

At the end of the day, I just appreciate everyone that has taken time to comment. Everyone has a different opinion and they are all sound and heart felt. I don't know what will work and what won't, but I am willing to learn.



Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: STR on August 22, 2014, 05:18:35 PM
I made an appointment and I feel relieved. It isn't for a couple of weeks, but that is okay.

I am trying to focus on the issues I would like to address: lack of security, inadequacy, anxiety and the depression. I think these issues are keeping me from honesty, giving and receiving affection and living a life I can be proud of.

I think I have been stuck in a fight or flight cycle of emotions for a very long time and it has had both mental and physical costs. I need to learn a better way, to stop responding to the imaginary threats, deal with the real ones.

At the end of the day, I just appreciate everyone that has taken time to comment. Everyone has a different opinion and they are all sound and heart felt. I don't know what will work and what won't, but I am willing to learn.

I think you are making a good decision. While you are not responsible for your husband's addiction that caused your pain and suffering, you are ultimately responsible for your own recovery because you won't ever recover unless you play a proactive role in making that happen. It might not be "fair" for you to have to work so hard when he was the one who caused most of your pain, but that's (unfortunately) the way it is...
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on August 22, 2014, 09:56:22 PM
Here's what I want from Therapy. I want to re-learn how to have my psychological needs filled. I need a coach to help me get there. That is where the healthy dopamine is. It has been eons since I was an undergrad (and truthfully I majored in business) but those needs are:

Certainty/Security
Variety/Interest
Love/Connection
Significance-Importance
Growth/A forward outlook
Contribution/Ownership

Addiction, depression - pretty much dysfunction is when these needs are falsely met, if at all. Right now I am in the middle of a firestorm against every single one of my psychological needs.

Turning 50 is a big hit to the security/certainty, significance, and growth needs.

Starting the business messed with security, but also elevated a forward outlook, allowed a feeling of contribution (even if his dysfunction wouldn't let me at times), created variety & interest. I do get something good (a brain reward of dopamine with every new goal met) from building a business, I love that stuff, but right now I'm so worn in the other need areas, I struggle more than I should.

The years of sexless marriage, ED and PMO laid waste to feelings of self-worth and significance, security/trust, the appreciation or interest in life, a forward outlook, or any identity as part of a marriage. I didn't leave out love and connection, it wasn't there in those days. (Not just for me) I've made a lot of progress, but the damage is pretty extensive and traumatic to all these needs - I still need some help I suspect he does too.

With the needs in repair, I am ultra sensitive to any threat. I do not want them damaged again. It isn't about what is fair - it is about what is right. I deserve to have these needs met. My family deserves to have a mom and wife and sister and daughter to have these needs met.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on August 22, 2014, 11:57:23 PM
I find that when I assess my needs it pays to start by counting my blessings.

You done very well, come a long way, and you've done things that your family will appreciate for decades to come. That, in itself, is a huge blessing.  Take a moment to honor all the work you've put into saving your family. Acknowledge the work that all others in the family have done, as well.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on August 26, 2014, 01:27:01 AM
Epiphany of the day:

Finding out my husband had a PMO problem was devastating, but it is absurd to think he or the addiction is the root "cause" of my depression, just as it is absurd to think I am the root "cause" of his PMO addiction. We both fell down ignoring our psychological needs and were blind to long term destructive impact. That isn't to say I decided consciously to become depressed or he consciously decided to develop a P addiction - we just went sideways, right into an abyss, with no brakes.

No relationship can be the sole source of satisfying the psychological needs. One has to have more than one place to "fuel up" when situations crop up that drain the tanks. Depending only on each other creates weird, dysfunctional and oddly symbiotic relationships - the codependent/narcissist the Dominant/cuckhold among others. These are not agreeable solutions.

Certainty-Security
Variety-Interest
Love/Connection
Significance-Importance
Growth-A forward outlook
Contribution-Ownership

I made some more good decisions today that make me feel significant to myself, more certain of a better future and ownership in my own recovery from depression. I talked to my doctor about medication and decided on one with tolerable side effects and limited impact on libido or O (just about the last thing I need right now). For me, I think this was a good decision.

I have pulled myself up from a very deep depression without medication over the past year and a half. I should correct that because I really don't understand how I made it out of that very deep hole (I wasn't bathing regularly and had some pretty crippling anxiety over going to the store) - I was not in a good place. I am so much better. Right now it is time for a little help to get over the hill. My very first therapy appointment isn't for a couple of weeks (my medical doctor is on board for support as well) and I feel like a weight has lifted.


Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on August 29, 2014, 04:46:51 AM
At work, I have no problem meeting new people. I have a pre-determined role to fill, expectations of behavior on my part and people I meet are already established in the rules of engagement. It is easy. Not so easy in less structured environments - the free range.

I've been apprehensive about being out - okay it is anxiety - I am fearful someone will ask me a question that triggers negative feelings or worse, a crying episode. It isn't as bad now, but even a few months ago, I avoided anything off my safe path. When one of the kids had a social even I either tried to do a drop-off and pick up or avoid everyone completely. I never felt comfortable interacting with the other parents and would look for ways to keep distant. I'd bring a sketchbook, something to read, eat/drink nothing (this requires interaction).

I was once described as someone that never met a stranger. In a few short years, I became this recluse.

Last night I stayed at kiddo's meeting. I did feel anxious, and let it pass.





Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Gracie on August 29, 2014, 06:41:02 AM
I know what you are saying.  I could not get my self to work or to do anything.  I did bathe but not much else.  It is our body recovering from the trauma that we experienced.  And realizing that our marriage was not what we thought it was is a big thing to deal with.  And going through the whole, "It must be me thing" helps us to feel woefully inadequate.  We are not equipped to deal with these things alone.  And yet when the problem is porn, there is no one we can talk to.  So we deal alone.  And it takes a long time to do that.  And along the way we are trying to help our husbands, and oh by the way keeping the house going and seeming as normal as possible.  It is a lot!

I know that therapy will help.  I have thought of you every day I have been on here. Sometimes it is tough to comment because we realize we were there too, and sometimes are there too.  But know I am always supportive of you and so are the rest here.  Let us know how you are doing.  We care.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on August 29, 2014, 07:07:20 AM
Somewhat to echo Gracie's sentiments; when we experience an injury we act to protect ourself from additional harm. When the injury is emotional, it's not unusual to withdraw socially. If one is introverted, and there's nothing wrong with introversion, then an emotional injury makes us withdraw socially to an even greater degree because social interaction can be draining to an introverted personality.

FWIW, introversion is not about liking or disliking people, it's about the flow of energy. Extroverts are emotionally energized by being around people. Introverts are emotionally drained by being around people but charge their batteries with time spent alone. Even introverts need an intimate circle, and usually these people are less draining. Nonetheless, it's not unusual for an introvert to need time to themselves, even to the point of spending time away from family.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on August 29, 2014, 11:28:09 PM
Thanks Gracie and LTE.

Good day today.

Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on September 06, 2014, 05:06:54 PM
I'm feeling great. No big dark clouds or thoughts creeping in to get in my way.

I can communicate what I think and my concerns without falling apart or trying to analyze it all.

I'm feeling more centered and less needful of his attention. I'm getting out more, regardless if he wants to or not.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on September 06, 2014, 11:29:28 PM
I'm feeling great. No big dark clouds or thoughts creeping in to get in my way.

I can communicate what I think and my concerns without falling apart or trying to analyze it all.

I'm feeling more centered and less needful of his attention. I'm getting out more, regardless if he wants to or not.
Way to go! 
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on September 13, 2014, 01:14:48 AM
First ever therapy session this week. Whew.

Co-dependency is the word. He can't stop PMO because I'm there to enable him. I wish I could wiggle out of that, but I think this is true. I do enable. Read my thread from the beginning on another site and I've put on a big co-dependency gorilla suit.

No more of that. It doesn't work and didn't work. So here are the take-aways:

   I'm taking a break from worry and anxiety about the PMO. He actively wants to be my husband and lover or he doesn't. He wants something else, fine. I feel very calm about this. No more of these "blips" and post-traumatic episodes worrying over "ifs" or being responsible for "saving my marriage". He has a choice and at some point I should respect that.

  I've been very available to him through this. Working the rewiring to help with the ED and neglecting my own needs. As a result he doesn't try very much in bed. It has been all about him for the past year. This makes for a lousy lover. I told him this week I'm not doing that anymore. We can cultivate trust, intimacy and respect to build a new relationship or forget it because our marriage as it has been is over.

 
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Gracie on September 13, 2014, 06:58:02 AM
Good for you!   There is a good book called Co-Dependent No More that is a good read.  It helps to see all the co-dependency in our lives.  But therapy is a good help through this all.  I work in an office of counselors so that gives me some resources as well as the times I talk to others and listen to myself talking about something I should do in my own life.  Aha moments if you will.

Sometimes I find it helps to use the line from Network:  "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore."  But other times the rabbit hole is so hospitable.  But they are getting less and less.  Believe in yourself! 

"I am not what has happened to me.  I am what I choose to become"  Carl Jung

Peace out!
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on September 13, 2014, 12:17:52 PM
Good for you!   There is a good book called Co-Dependent No More that is a good read.  It helps to see all the co-dependency in our lives.  But therapy is a good help through this all.  I work in an office of counselors so that gives me some resources as well as the times I talk to others and listen to myself talking about something I should do in my own life.  Aha moments if you will.

Sometimes I find it helps to use the line from Network:  "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore."  But other times the rabbit hole is so hospitable.  But they are getting less and less.  Believe in yourself! 

"I am not what has happened to me.  I am what I choose to become"  Carl Jung

Peace out!

I read Co-Dependent No More this week based on my therapist's suggestion. Got it on the Kindle and started reading that night. I'm working on boundaries and told husband he's going to start paying me for my work in the office. He understands, or says he understands. Since I do the accounting, I've ordered payroll checks!

I don't have co-dependency in my family. No addiction or that kind of relationships going on. I know that is something co-dependents say according to the book, but I have a really hard time with that. I have not always been this way. I made myself this way, just as he made himself that way with the p. I have dropped my boundaries in a very deliberate way, not trusting my own mind. Probably why I have moments of "What am I doing? Why am I sticking around? I'm too smart, too capable, too good to put up with this!"

My therapist told me that for my personality type, acting like a co-dependent is like being in hell. It just goes against everything. I can agree.

I've talked to the old man and told him if he's serious about making changes and starting a new relationship with trust, respect and intimacy we will need some help. No more of the old relationship for me.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on September 13, 2014, 01:55:41 PM
Has your husband had relapses recently?
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on September 13, 2014, 02:06:43 PM
Has your husband had relapses recently?

He would need to answer that. He says he is working on staying away. To what level I can't speculate or change.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on September 13, 2014, 03:19:35 PM
Has your husband had relapses recently?

He would need to answer that. He says he is working on staying away. To what level I can't speculate or change.

JMO. I don't think that accountability would be too much to ask of him.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on September 13, 2014, 07:58:37 PM
Has your husband had relapses recently?

He would need to answer that. He says he is working on staying away. To what level I can't speculate or change.

JMO. I don't think that accountability would be too much to ask of him.

He needs to decide if that is something that helps him. I can't decide for him or worry about it anymore.

Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on September 16, 2014, 06:58:02 AM
I don't think I've always been codependent. I know I wasn't when I met my husband. I've never been one to "need" a boyfriend or a man or dream of some white knight that is going to make everything alright.

All I wanted was a sex buddy. I hadn't dated anyone for over a year when we met. Mostly by choice and partially because I had been stalked. That sort of thing turns a person off from really trusting other people. I had my own life, plans. I could take care of my own business. He was supposed to leave and go to another college at the end of the term. I had no intention of husband snagging or chasing him. Meh, if it worked it worked. He was fun to talk to, a pretty good debater and fantastic in the sack.

more later....
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on September 18, 2014, 11:05:34 PM
We used to tell each other when we M'd. Maybe in the parking lot at the grocery store, he would mention something and we would get home and not get the groceries put away for awhile. It was like a challenge to the other to be more satisfying. I think we knew at some level that M was an intrusion on our love life, something we needed to work on to keep at bay.

I don't remember when he stopped telling me. It is just the way of things now.

I was and am a little angry he let this intruder in our home. I'm also a little angry I've been helping it live here with weak boundaries.

Codependency, the more I learn, is not natural for me. I've enjoyed detaching and getting back in touch with my boundaries.

I asked for a backrub, got a pretty good one and then I went to sleep.

Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on September 19, 2014, 11:28:38 PM
I caught myself today. I was telling him what he should do instead of respecting his business decision. I stopped mid-sentence and told him it was his call, not mine.

I've spent the last year trying to save him, the marriage, build his business - in the end I'm working a job (for free) I would never apply for, the bed is still cold and he doesn't respect the sacrifice. I don't respect me for doing it, why should he?

I am seeing him connect more, open up. He can address the issues that lead him to PMO or decide that dark kind of existence is the life for him and commit to his decision. I can't provide the backdrop that says that kind of life is normal or healthy - and that is my decision.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Gracie on September 20, 2014, 03:43:13 PM
This is good progress SO!  Glad things are moving forward again for you.  It is tough to remember that in a relationship we can only change us.  But then sometimes it is hard for us to change.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on September 20, 2014, 06:19:49 PM
This is good progress SO!  Glad things are moving forward again for you.  It is tough to remember that in a relationship we can only change us.  But then sometimes it is hard for us to change.

Thanks Gracie. I feel so much more like me. I think I needed permission from myself to drop the facade.

I feel like I've been acting in a play, wearing a gorilla suit - just because I thought the right attitude would work. I'm so over the worry. I've been mindful of slips like the one above, but that may be more personality than codependency. I say what I think, sometimes with judgmental remarks, and that's okay too - I won't flog myself for it, but in the end he needs to succeed at business and address his issues and not rely on me to come hold the safety net.

With my mind clear(er), I've enjoyed my kids more. I've made creative time for my interests. I've set some goals just for me, because I deserve the kind of attention and care I've showered on a problem I can't fix.

I went surprise shopping with the daughter today. We had fun, found some really nice things for both of us. Other kid was off on a camping thing.

Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: rider654321 on September 22, 2014, 07:14:47 PM
Wow SORP,
I have just read all nine pages of your journal. You have certainly demonstrated an amazing level of insightfulness, loyalty, commitment, patience and tenacity as you have dealt with the issues that have manifested from your husband's addiction.

Your last few posts have a distinctly different feel (tone) to them and while I appaud you for establishing new stronger boundaries for your husband and yourself, and your feeling more like yourself, I nevertheless felt saddened (for you) to read that things remain "cold in the bedroom" given all that you have been through, and the sheer amount of support and patience you have given your hubby. He is indeed a lucky man to have you stand by him this long.

Reading between the lines of your response to Ite's enquiry about "has there been any recent relapses from your hubby" creates a bit of confusion over whether he did relapsed or not, and I sincerely hope given the commitment you have put into rebuilding your trust in him that the answer would be a definate, no.

He should indeed be respecting the sacrifies you have made and should be doing everything within his power to honour your relationship, trust and support.

If there have been further relapse/s after all the effort you have put into to rebuilding your relationship, then the problem rests squarely with him and his choices. If that is the case, then I would encourage you to consider what is ultimately right for you and you alone and pursue that path. That would not be selfish under your circumstances.

Reading your journal has been insightful on so many levels.   

   
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on September 23, 2014, 01:56:16 AM
Wow SORP,
I have just read all nine pages of your journal. You have certainly demonstrated an amazing level of insightfulness, loyalty, commitment, patience and tenacity as you have dealt with the issues that have manifested from your husband's addiction.

Your last few posts have a distinctly different feel (tone) to them and while I appaud you for establishing new stronger boundaries for your husband and yourself, and your feeling more like yourself, I nevertheless felt saddened (for you) to read that things remain "cold in the bedroom" given all that you have been through, and the sheer amount of support and patience you have given your hubby. He is indeed a lucky man to have you stand by him this long.

Reading between the lines of your response to Ite's enquiry about "has there been any recent relapses from your hubby" creates a bit of confusion over whether he did relapsed or not, and I sincerely hope given the commitment you have put into rebuilding your trust in him that the answer would be a definate, no.

He should indeed be respecting the sacrifies you have made and should be doing everything within his power to honour your relationship, trust and support.

If there have been further relapse/s after all the effort you have put into to rebuilding your relationship, then the problem rests squarely with him and his choices. If that is the case, then I would encourage you to consider what is ultimately right for you and you alone and pursue that path. That would not be selfish under your circumstances.

Reading your journal has been insightful on so many levels.   

   


I really don't have any curiosity about his relapses right now. If he did, he did. If he didn't, he didn't. Why would it matter to me? Why should it matter?

I have detached from the problem that isn't mine and that I cannot solve. Attachment and support only hold him back, keep him from failing and pulling himself back up. I'm really not SO Reboot Partner anymore. I'm my own person.

Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: rider654321 on September 23, 2014, 05:17:45 PM
I have a hard time accepting any partner in your position (given all you have been through) can have a dismissive approach to the issue like that?

At least in my mind the relapse/s should matter to you because he knows it's been the very source of so much pain in your lives. Those 7 years where you lived in a sexless marriage is as good a place as any to build a case for why a relapse really should matter to you?

Your hubby must have an overwhelming sense of how much damage his porn addiction has caused you and your marriage. So a relapse after all the effort and support you've given him should matter to you because (IMHO) it demonstrates where his priorities are really at, but more importantly it demonstrates where your needs as his wife fit in with his priorities.

I do get that your hubby's addiction is a problem you can't fix, as it is ultimately up to the addict to overcome the addiction. No partner can ever really know what's going on inside the head of an addict, but switching off to the problem and not caring either way if he's using or not seems counter intuitive to producing a good outcome. Particularly if things are not firing on all cylinders in the bedroom between you two and your needs for intimacy and sex are not being met.

I do understand your need to step back and set strong boundaries, and I agree he has to be the one to pull himself up if he has relapsed. I just hope that your change in attitude is not you shutting down to your own emotional needs and switching off to avoid further pain.

You seem like a wonderfully supportive, intelligent and supportive woman and you deserve to be treated that way by your hubby.


Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on September 23, 2014, 06:57:53 PM
I have a hard time accepting any partner in your position (given all you have been through) can have a dismissive approach to the issue like that?

At least in my mind the relapse/s should matter to you because he knows it's been the very source of so much pain in your lives. Those 7 years where you lived in a sexless marriage is as good a place as any to build a case for why a relapse really should matter to you?

Your hubby must have an overwhelming sense of how much damage his porn addiction has caused you and your marriage. So a relapse after all the effort and support you've given him should matter to you because (IMHO) it demonstrates where his priorities are really at, but more importantly it demonstrates where your needs as his wife fit in with his priorities.

I do get that your hubby's addiction is a problem you can't fix, as it is ultimately up to the addict to overcome the addiction. No partner can ever really know what's going on inside the head of an addict, but switching off to the problem and not caring either way if he's using or not seems counter intuitive to producing a good outcome. Particularly if things are not firing on all cylinders in the bedroom between you two and your needs for intimacy and sex are not being met.

I do understand your need to step back and set strong boundaries, and I agree he has to be the one to pull himself up if he has relapsed. I just hope that your change in attitude is not you shutting down to your own emotional needs and switching off to avoid further pain.

You seem like a wonderfully supportive, intelligent and supportive woman and you deserve to be treated that way by your hubby.

I really appreciate your response. I NEED this kind of push back to argue this through so I don't get caught up in it later and go back to the old way. I am being perfectly rational in my approach to this.

I think the question is "Why would relapse [sic] matter to me? Why should it matter?"

To summarize your first idea, It should matter because of all the pain PMO addiction caused. I think what you are saying here is I need to be concerned about his p use and relapse so I can help diminish/control the relapses and not relive the past?

The sunken cost fallacy is a cognitive distortion where one believes they can recover what has already been spent. It's like buying concert tickets, getting the flu and then going to the concert anyway "because you don't want to lose the money." Dude, that money is spent and gone. Going to the concert will just make you miserable. So will chasing a solution to a pain that has already been spent.

I have been miserable chasing this thing. I've bent myself sideways and became something I am not.

The years of sexless marriage can never be recovered. Guilt won't bring it back, sacrifice won't bring it back, stomping and screaming won't bring it back and worry or concern today isn't going to make that time disappear or regain what has already been spent, so I don't see the point in worry, concern or paying a possible relapse any deference.

We can go only forward. It is up to him how he chooses and up to me how I choose.

This does not mean I won't listen to him if he needs to talk about it, but I'm not going to inquire. It doesn't mean I don't care for him. I do. I do not care for the behavior and will not be a slave to it too. P will not make me miserable, keep me on edge or worried about his state of mind.

I haven't switched off the problem, but I have detached myself from the worry of it. I need to care for myself.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: rider654321 on September 23, 2014, 11:04:29 PM

I really appreciate your response. I NEED this kind of push back to argue this through so I don't get caught up in it later and go back to the old way. I am being perfectly rational in my approach to this.

I think the question is "Why would relapse [sic] matter to me? Why should it matter?"

To summarize your first idea, It should matter because of all the pain PMO addiction caused. I think what you are saying here is I need to be concerned about his p use and relapse so I can help diminish/control the relapses and not relive the past?

The sunken cost fallacy is a cognitive distortion where one believes they can recover what has already been spent. It's like buying concert tickets, getting the flu and then going to the concert anyway "because you don't want to lose the money." Dude, that money is spent and gone. Going to the concert will just make you miserable. So will chasing a solution to a pain that has already been spent.

I have been miserable chasing this thing. I've bent myself sideways and became something I am not.

The years of sexless marriage can never be recovered. Guilt won't bring it back, sacrifice won't bring it back, stomping and screaming won't bring it back and worry or concern today isn't going to make that time disappear or regain what has already been spent, so I don't see the point in worry, concern or paying a possible relapse any deference.

We can go only forward. It is up to him how he chooses and up to me how I choose.

This does not mean I won't listen to him if he needs to talk about it, but I'm not going to inquire. It doesn't mean I don't care for him. I do. I do not care for the behavior and will not be a slave to it too. P will not make me miserable, keep me on edge or worried about his state of mind.

I haven't switched off the problem, but I have detached myself from the worry of it. I need to care for myself.

Actually, no, you didn't summarize my first idea correctly.

What I meant was if your hubby is relapsing, then by default he is prioritising porn over nurturing the mutually satisfying sexual relationship you so desire. Given the circumstances, I find it hard to imagine that is something you would accept, let alone say "it doesn't matter".

It's not about reliving the past, but rather, learning from it. It's about establishing where you fit into his world, or whether he is ever going to seriously prioritise you as his wife?

I'm curious as to whether since you've chosen to step back (and I fully agree with your reason's for doing so), did you establish any clear boundaries for him to work within on his own?

I'm kind of thinking if your view now is along the lines of  "why should a relapse matter to you?" it kind of feels like giving him a green light?

If all your ducks are not lining up as they should. If he's back using P and is not actively chasing you around the bedroom or a making some effort to satisfy your needs, then I fear your on a predicably slippery slope and you deserve much better than that.

You are absolutely right in that you must care for yourself.   

         
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on September 24, 2014, 06:11:28 AM

I really appreciate your response. I NEED this kind of push back to argue this through so I don't get caught up in it later and go back to the old way. I am being perfectly rational in my approach to this.

I think the question is "Why would relapse [sic] matter to me? Why should it matter?"

To summarize your first idea, It should matter because of all the pain PMO addiction caused. I think what you are saying here is I need to be concerned about his p use and relapse so I can help diminish/control the relapses and not relive the past?

The sunken cost fallacy is a cognitive distortion where one believes they can recover what has already been spent. It's like buying concert tickets, getting the flu and then going to the concert anyway "because you don't want to lose the money." Dude, that money is spent and gone. Going to the concert will just make you miserable. So will chasing a solution to a pain that has already been spent.

I have been miserable chasing this thing. I've bent myself sideways and became something I am not.

The years of sexless marriage can never be recovered. Guilt won't bring it back, sacrifice won't bring it back, stomping and screaming won't bring it back and worry or concern today isn't going to make that time disappear or regain what has already been spent, so I don't see the point in worry, concern or paying a possible relapse any deference.

We can go only forward. It is up to him how he chooses and up to me how I choose.

This does not mean I won't listen to him if he needs to talk about it, but I'm not going to inquire. It doesn't mean I don't care for him. I do. I do not care for the behavior and will not be a slave to it too. P will not make me miserable, keep me on edge or worried about his state of mind.

I haven't switched off the problem, but I have detached myself from the worry of it. I need to care for myself.

Actually, no, you didn't summarize my first idea correctly.

What I meant was if your hubby is relapsing, then by default he is prioritising porn over nurturing the mutually satisfying sexual relationship you so desire. Given the circumstances, I find it hard to imagine that is something you would accept, let alone say "it doesn't matter".

It's not about reliving the past, but rather, learning from it. It's about establishing where you fit into his world, or whether he is ever going to seriously prioritise you as his wife?

I'm curious as to whether since you've chosen to step back (and I fully agree with your reason's for doing so), did you establish any clear boundaries for him to work within on his own?

I'm kind of thinking if your view now is along the lines of  "why should a relapse matter to you?" it kind of feels like giving him a green light?

If all your ducks are not lining up as they should. If he's back using P and is not actively chasing you around the bedroom or a making some effort to satisfy your needs, then I fear your on a predicably slippery slope and you deserve much better than that.

You are absolutely right in that you must care for yourself.   

       

Thanks for clarifying your point, but let's be clear - My ducks are lined up. I'm not going to worry about it. My relationship boundaries do prohibit the prioritization of P over real relationships, that hasn't changed. My boundaries also include connected, mutually enjoyable sex. As a P addict, he stinks in bed. (i suspect this is true for all PA's if we got real about it)

He can relapse or abstain - he or any addict will do what they do, no matter how much concern or worry an SO has. I've proven this to myself, I don't need more proof.

"Green Light?" sure, if that is what he wants. I'll respect the decision to choose porn over our marriage. I will accept that we don't want the same things and move on to find what I need. He can celebrate with a weekend binge. Everybody wins. Everybody gets exactly what they need.

Look Rider, his addiction does not deserve my attention, tears or concern. Period.

I love the man. It would be sad, but it isn't the end of the world. He needs his ducks in a row.


Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: rider654321 on September 24, 2014, 05:38:48 PM

Look Rider, his addiction does not deserve my attention, tears or concern. Period.


That pretty much sums up how I feel about my addiction and disclosure. The addiction is/was my problem, so why should my wife have to deal with the emotional fall out? She deserves to live her life unaffected by what you have rightly pointed out, it is ultimately the addicts problem.

Seems like your in a good place to deal with whatever the future has in store for you. I wish you much happiness.   
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on September 25, 2014, 06:30:13 AM

Look Rider, his addiction does not deserve my attention, tears or concern. Period.


That pretty much sums up how I feel about my addiction and disclosure. The addiction is/was my problem, so why should my wife have to deal with the emotional fall out? She deserves to live her life unaffected by what you have rightly pointed out, it is ultimately the addicts problem.

Seems like your in a good place to deal with whatever the future has in store for you. I wish you much happiness.

Rider,

I think you are going to justify not telling her anyway you can because it benefits you and your addiction. The situations are not the same. I am making a decision for myself.

You were a P-addict when you met her. You assume that addiction wasn't something that attracted her to you. If she likes you better as a p-addict, will you return to it? Codependents (enablers) typically jump from relationship to relationship with addicts and alcoholics.

You are still making decisions for her and not allowing a grown woman make decisions for herself.

sorp
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on September 26, 2014, 06:23:14 AM
Had a great time last night with the family. Hubs was connected, kids happy, everyone socialized.

I'm still vigilant about policing my codependency behaviors - I would usually feel anxious about going out in public as a family because I felt like I needed to cover with chatter because there was something off with us as a family unit. Not last night. The kids were relaxed, husband and I had fun - even if it was past our bedtime.

When dysfunction is present, it is natural to want to hide it, disguise it - put on a brave face. The truth is, this only protects the dysfunction. 

Came home and snuggled with the husband before falling asleep. Keeping my boundaries in check.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on September 26, 2014, 07:09:36 AM
Had a great time last night with the family. Hubs was connected, kids happy, everyone socialized.

I'm still vigilant about policing my codependency behaviors - I would usually feel anxious about going out in public as a family because I felt like I needed to cover with chatter because there was something off with us as a family unit. Not last night. The kids were relaxed, husband and I had fun - even if it was past our bedtime.

When dysfunction is present, it is natural to want to hide it, disguise it - put on a brave face. The truth is, this only protects the dysfunction. 

Came home and snuggled with the husband before falling asleep. Keeping my boundaries in check.
That sounds lovely. It's a good start; build on it.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on September 27, 2014, 05:23:59 PM
When an addict burps, the codependent says “excuse me”.

Like P, codependency seems to be habitual. Instead of dopamine, codependency is a rush of security and safety that soon turns into something very different. As human beings we are hard wired for interdependency.

Codependency is a perversion of the healthy psychological needs met with interactions with others.
Codependents relate to others in unhealthy ways with patterns of obsession, self-sacrifice, dysfunctional communication, and control, which are both self-destructive and hurtful to others. They’re often abusive or allow themselves to be abused.

In my codependency I became SO Reboot Partner. His p-addiction deeply affected me and my sense of security, long before I even knew it existed. I reacted predictably, but not effectively. I wanted to “save him” from PMO addiction, “save the marriage” and make any sacrifices necessary.

Instead of addressing my diminished security, the thin rations of affection and needs for identity with care for myself, I immersed, obsessed my full being with his “care” and “rewiring”. I focused on every little mood or action, gauging my self-value with how he felt at the time, the strength of his erection and how long he could abstain from p or fantasies. He had no need to reciprocate affections and I didn’t complain.

He was allowed to become more selfish and narcissistic because I would not stand up for myself. The addiction had free rein, perhaps even more than before.

I will say the initial success of the reboot was a source of pride for me. This was while I was journaling on yourbrainrebalanced. I truly believed (while I wouldn’t admit it) I was in control of his addiction and I humble-bragged and embraced that lie like a life-preserver. Again, I was getting identity and pride in myself from something I really had no control over. And then the relapse.

Codependency goes with addiction like planting pumpkins next to corn. They just fit together. Unlike interdependency, codependency is about controlling, self-sacrifice and being needed. It isn’t about letting the addict heal.

Here is a list of characteristics for ALL SO REBOOT PARTNERS to Consider.

(Source: http://www.addictionconsulting.com/codependency.htm)

1.   My good feelings about who I am stem from being liked by you
2.   My good feelings about who I am stem from receiving approval from you
3.   Your struggle affects my serenity. My mental attention focuses on solving your problems/relieving your pain
4.   My mental attention is focused on you
5.   My mental attention is focused on protecting you
6.   My mental attention is focused on manipulating you to do it my way
7.   My self-esteem is bolstered by solving your problems
8.   My self-esteem is bolstered by relieving your pain
9.   My own hobbies/interests are put to one side. My time is spent sharing your hobbies/interests
10.   Your clothing and personal appearance are dictated by my desires and I feel you are a reflection of me
11.   Your behaviour is dictated by my desires and I feel you are a reflection of me
12.   I am not aware of how I feel. I am aware of how you feel.
13.   I am not aware of what I want - I ask what you want. I am not aware - I assume
14.   The dreams I have for my future are linked to you
15.   My fear of rejection determines what I say or do
16.   My fear of your anger determines what I say or do
17.   I use giving as a way of feeling safe in our relationship
18.   My social circle diminishes as I involve myself with you
19.   I put my values aside in order to connect with you
20.   I value your opinion and way of doing things more than my own
21.   The quality of my life is in relation to the quality of yours
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: rider654321 on September 30, 2014, 09:19:49 PM

1.   My good feelings about who I am stem from being liked by you
2.   My good feelings about who I am stem from receiving approval from you
3.   Your struggle affects my serenity. My mental attention focuses on solving your problems/relieving your pain
4.   My mental attention is focused on you
5.   My mental attention is focused on protecting you
6.   My mental attention is focused on manipulating you to do it my way
7.   My self-esteem is bolstered by solving your problems
8.   My self-esteem is bolstered by relieving your pain
9.   My own hobbies/interests are put to one side. My time is spent sharing your hobbies/interests
10.   Your clothing and personal appearance are dictated by my desires and I feel you are a reflection of me
11.   Your behaviour is dictated by my desires and I feel you are a reflection of me
12.   I am not aware of how I feel. I am aware of how you feel.
13.   I am not aware of what I want - I ask what you want. I am not aware - I assume
14.   The dreams I have for my future are linked to you
15.   My fear of rejection determines what I say or do
16.   My fear of your anger determines what I say or do
17.   I use giving as a way of feeling safe in our relationship
18.   My social circle diminishes as I involve myself with you
19.   I put my values aside in order to connect with you
20.   I value your opinion and way of doing things more than my own
21.   The quality of my life is in relation to the quality of yours

That's interesting SORP as I can relate to all the points I have made the numbers bold to some degree. It makes me question whether I might be the codependent one in our relationship?

For example in (1) and (2) my happiness is directly related to being liked by my wife and having her approval. It's not the only thing that dictates my happiness, but it is a very significant part of it.

(3) My wife does struggles with expressing simple acts of affection towards people other than myself and her few close long term friends. She has trouble allowing herself be vulnerable, and as such, is even reluctant to foster closeness with her other siblings (a side effect of her life as a child). She doesn't mix easily in social situations and sometimes she is mistaken as being aloof or snobbish when in fact she is simply shy and reserved.

This does affect her relationship with my own adult children. She hasn't bonded with them to any significant degree and I haven't seen much evidence that she's willing to make an effort to build a deeper bond with them. I have accepted that's just how she is.

Even though she and I have a great thing together, it feels kind of like I have one relationship with my new wife, and another relationship with my own family. And even though we all live together and get along OK, it feels kind of like a group of flatmates cohabitating together rather than a family unit. 

It does affect my serenity and I do try to help, but research I have read about blended families suggests our situation is quite normal? So I've not put too much emphasis on it. It does feel as though my wife is disconnected from my kids lives, and that does affect my happiness to an extent. For example I worry what will happen to her, if anything happened to me as I can't see her staying on living in the house with my kids after I am gone given there is no close bond between them, even though they get along Ok? 

(5) My thoughts on protecting her from pain have been discussed at length on here regarding the issue of disclosure. But I also feel protective of her in many other ways. I want her to feel secure and loved, desired and respected. (Though I know my addiction was entirely inconsistent with those traits, never the less it's how I feel toward her in my heart).

(7) & (8) I definitely makes me feel good when I make her feel good and help solve her problems.

(14) Yes I have a lot of dreams for our future together and she is a big part of those dreams.

(15) Fear of rejection doesn't have a lot to do with what I say or do, but I am always conscious of the things I say and do and how they will impact upon a person out of courtesy, and I'll do the same for anyone. I'm not a person who will hurt a person intentionally. I admit to being a bit of a people pleaser. Though on the issue of rejection I have already admitted that does play a part in my decision to not disclose my addiction.

(16) I don't fear her rejection or anger on anything other than the issue of disclosure.

(17) I have been generous with gifts to show her how much I love her. I have brought her a sports car, her own motorcycle, and I paid her house off for her so she could then work less days each week and we could spend more time together (long weekends away etc). I don't feel I do this to feel safe in the relationship, rather I do it to enhance our relationship and free up time that we can spend together.   

(19) I have certainly had to set aside my values with regard to "how I think our family unit should feel". I accept no one partner will be all things to all people. She is my new wife, she is not a new mother to my children, so I can't expect her to bond with my children in a way I hoped she might, and therefore I have had to accept a family life that is less than I'd really like it to be. Though our own relationship is good, maintaining that relationship has come at a cost that has seen me loose some of the connection I once had with my kids simply because we now kind of live separate lives under the one roof. If we head out I always kiss my daughter and let her know where we're going, whereas my wife will rarely acknowledge her coming in or going out. I know that's just her personality and shyness. I know she doesn't do it deliberately to alienate my children.

(21) Happy wife happy life as they say. I do work hard to make our life together pleasant and enjoyable.   
       
I'd appreciate your thoughts?
 

Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on October 01, 2014, 05:52:51 AM

I'd appreciate your thoughts?

"7.   My self-esteem is bolstered by solving your problems."

I have struggled with number seven.

I am a fixer. I like to fix things. I like the way it makes me feel, but it is a false sense of esteem and a trap many narcissist use to feel control over the codependent. The codependent will try and fix, the narcissist then says "nope, try harder" which is like candy because then the codependent does try harder, only to be shot down again.

Narcissists have no relationship with the self, instead relying on a false self - a projected lie. While many narcissists become addicts and are p-addicts, not all p-addicts are narcissists. http://blogs.psychcentral.com/sex/2014/07/narcissism-porn-use-and-addiction/

In many ways, these same horoscope-lists can be "re-interpreted" as true for the Narcissists and the codependent. This is because N's and C's are two sides of the same coin. They attract each other like rare-earth magnets, yet frustrate and repel.

Rider, these are your issues. You already have your answers and your course of action.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: rider654321 on October 01, 2014, 09:09:29 PM
That was an interesting and informative article. I never knew of the second type of narcissism, though I suspect I have some traits.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on October 02, 2014, 05:16:34 AM
Well. I've been holding my breath, hoping this latest revelation from husband will pass. He tells me he really "isn't interested" in going to counseling. He is afraid he's going to be told he is emotionally empty, because that is how he has always been. It makes me think every thing we've had (or I conjured from acts of hopeful ignorance) as a couple has been a lie for him. Also I am a soul devouring ogre hellbent on mayhem and destruction of his happiness.

When I ask him how he wants to feel he says "comfortable". When I ask what that means, he says he "likes routine".

I can't adapt to a routine of neglect for my psychological needs for affection, identity and growth without going crazy. I think I've proven this to myself. Love becomes pity or a duty. Self-esteem deforms and contorts into something dependent on another's unpredictable whim and fancy rather than a rock on which I build my temple.

I don't hate him, but I do feel a sorrowful sound, just below my heart, that threatens to break free.

I need to move forward, not stand still.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Gracie on October 02, 2014, 06:49:07 PM
SORP I have no words for this.  I can only imagine the thoughts going through your head. (some may be familiar to me)  This is so difficult.  Whether men tell or don't tell, whether quit or don't quit,  when porn comes in it takes a whole (the marriage) and makes it pieces.  Sometimes not a lot of pieces and sometimes a million little pieces.  And we, as women go around and try to put them back.  And we don't know how.  Something I read comes to mind.  When porn comes in, it is like the women has a cart full of apples and suddenly they spill and she keeps trying to put them back and they keep falling out.  Exhausting.

They don't get that this is an emotional thing.  It is not about sex or no sex, hot body or not hot body, wife turned on or not turned on, them turned on or not turned on.  This is about relationships.  How they relate to people, their wives, girlfriends, co workers, children. It is not about ED.  ED is a symptom, watching porn is a smyptom, not communicating is a symptom, flawed thinking is a symptom, PE or DE  are symtptoms.  If they are not getting all the syptoms out in the open and talking about the symptoms,  the disease, or problem cannot be diagnosed.  Often the words are about how this has affected them.  They want to protect people which is "I am afraid to deal with the reaction."  The narcissism anology is so true.  The words that are said often ring hollow.  Men, please understand the physical relationship is important, but knowing that we truly have you as our mate, body and soul is the thing that matters most.  And with that, we will respond to you. 

SORP  truly keep putting one foot in front of the other.   
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: rider654321 on October 02, 2014, 10:15:47 PM
SORP I am so sorry to hear things have not worked out as you hoped they might. It must be heartbreaking  :( 

The support you gave your husband warranted much better behaviour from him, and you yourself deserved to feel so much better in return.

When I first read through your entire journal a few weeks back I had strong suspicions that your husband may have a narcissistic personality? The descriptions you gave of his interaction, admiration and infatuation for his former secretary rang narc alarm bells, and left me feeling his PMO issue may not have been the only challenge you were facing going forward.     

I know a bit about this because my former wife is a narcissist. I had no idea what a narcissist was until we separated after 28 years, and other people close to me started to tell me things they could see happening in our marriage that I couldn't see.

It was actually my (then) 19yo son of all people that pointed out to me that Mum's behaviour was narcissistic. He then sent me a link to a page that explained what narcissism was all about.
A lot of the pieces from our past all of a sudden all fell into place.

As heartbreaking as I know it must be for you, you have done all that you possibly could and more to help your husband. The reality is, and others have expressed this view earlier in this thread, no one can help an addict that's not prepared to help themselves, and I can only imagine the turmoil that must go on within the mind of a narcissistic addict as they attempt to deal with both issues?

I feel sorry for your hubby too, and I suspect he will only realise the magnitude of his foolishness once your no longer a part of his life. One day in the future he may just realise what a terribly silly man he was to have had someone like you who was prepared to be so patient and supportive, and yet he did not do his part to honour and value all that you did for him.

Though, having said that, if he is indeed a narcissist he will likely lack the empathy to ever truly see things from your perspective.   

I wish you the courage and strength to continue to move forward with your life. You deserve so much better than you have settled for in the past. 
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on October 04, 2014, 11:14:31 AM
Gracie - I don't think our struggles really upsets the men. They will cover their heads and blame the ex, the SO, anybody but themselves for their disconnect.

I'm past emotional betrayal. He's happy. I need to accept he wants a life that does not include me happy.

The thing about  narcissism is that it isn't just bravado and bragging, feigned compassion  - it is complete affection for a false self. Husband sees himself as the perfect dad, even though he sits in the parking lot at kiddo #1 club meetings looking at his ipad. He believes he has been the perfect husband. Just look at the opportunity he gave me to work in his office. Why I love working for the family good, unpaid, compared to some imaginary ideal and unappreciated (it keeps me on my toes) because service is satisfaction. It is such bullshit.

He liked having the tall blond secretary (this was in his mind, reality is she is kinda flat-chested, straw haired and snaggle toothed, while I am a still striking brunette with green eyes, also I have a nice rack, education and better posture) because he thought it "elevated his position with other men" to have a tall blond secretary. Have is the key here. He believes he deserves these "things", the trophy wife, the emotional side piece, the kids, the house the status and perfectly run office. People are things  that define for others that false self in his emotionally empty world.

I wear a man's watch. It should remind me that he is a narcissist.

A few years ago he told me he wanted a watch for his birthday. He wanted a watch that he didn't have to change the date on it, because he felt this was something he was beyond doing. His specifications were pretty general, yet detailed - Not a digital watch, had to be analog. These watch specifications are insanely expensive. The codependent in me was filled with purpose and on the hunt.

I found a really nice self winding Seiko watch for $800 that only needed a manual date change every four years had a perpetual calendar good until the year 2100 (edit: I just checked this). He rejected it, telling me it was a "nice try" and bought himself a Rolex. I wear that Seiko watch and I've come to love it. It keeps time well, feels good and substantial. It is better than any delicate lady thing I've ever worn. I'm keeping the watch; I'm moving on from the relationship that has me running in circles for specifications I can never meet.

Here's the thing about THE RELATIONSHIP ASPECT that I think these guys need to understand. It isn't the relationship with the wife, the girlfriend, the wife and the girlfriend or whatever that needs care - IT IS the relationship with the self that is really messed up here. Beyond the past, the childhood the religious or non-religous or hurts and trauma - it is how one sees themselves and reconciles that with the world - Wife/Girlfriend relationships come after that.

When the relationship with self is healthy, healthy relationships with others becomes possible. For the unhealthy, well there's porn and other self manipulations.

We cannot fix a partner's broken relationship with the self.

Whew, re-reading that I think I just had a eureka moment.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: rider654321 on October 06, 2014, 04:17:45 PM

A few years ago he told me he wanted a watch for his birthday. He wanted a watch that he didn't have to change the date on it, because he felt this was something he was beyond doing. His specifications were pretty general, yet detailed - Not a digital watch, had to be analog. These watch specifications are insanely expensive. The codependent in me was filled with purpose and on the hunt.

I found a really nice self winding Seiko watch for $800 that only needed a manual date change every four years had a perpetual calendar good until the year 2100 (edit: I just checked this). He rejected it, telling me it was a "nice try" and bought himself a Rolex. I wear that Seiko watch and I've come to love it. It keeps time well, feels good and substantial. It is better than any delicate lady thing I've ever worn. I'm keeping the watch; I'm moving on from the relationship that has me running in circles for specifications I can never meet.


Wow SORP ... that's text book narcissism on the part of your hubby. I am glad for you that you are finally drawing a line in the sand and moving on from this toxic relationship, though I am sad you have had to endure so much for so long to reach this point. You are deserving of so much better.

Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on October 06, 2014, 04:48:05 PM
“How wrong is it for a woman to expect the man to build the world she wants, rather than to create it herself?”
― Anaïs Nin
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on October 07, 2014, 05:35:46 AM
Applied for two jobs. One within 75 miles and the other about 500 miles away. We shall see.

Appointment with lawyer today.

Making cinnamon rolls for the kids this morning.

Made a list of five things that are pretty great about myself:
1) I am worthy of my own trust.
2) I choose what I worry about.
3) I care for myself in a healthy way.
4) I am a good mom.
5) I don't depend on others or things for how I feel about myself.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: rider654321 on October 07, 2014, 05:14:50 PM
Awesome news. Your doing the right thing. Hope all goes well with the lawyer today.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: rider654321 on October 07, 2014, 06:08:39 PM
Hi SORP, (tried sending you this message privately but was unable too, I didn't want to waste the message so I have posted here. Delete it after reading if you wish?)

Just wanted to personally congratulate you for taking the action your taking now to move on from your narc hubby.
Narcissists will suck the very life out of you if you allow them too, and there is no fixing them or hoping they themselves will change. They don't have the empathy to understand how you feel or understand how their behaviour affects you.

My first wife was/is a narcissist even though I didn't know it until after we separated. Once I discovered she was having an affair (which brought our marriage to an end), the real surprise was all the lies she was telling him in emails I discovered on her computer. I'd never known my wife to lie in the 28 years we were together, and yet here she was creating an entirely false reality in the emails to her lover.

After separation the lies only got worse, and I'm telling you all this simply because you may be faced with a similar situation from your hubby once you do separate. My wife began to lie to our children about me. It's called "splitting" and narc's use this to control the way one person feels about another. In it's simplest form the narc tells person A that person B doesn't like person A, thus person A doesn't communicate with person B and so forth.

In my case my ex was trying to poison the way my kids thought about me, by saying things like, "don't tell your Father I told you this, but ........ blah blah blah". My children were 13 and 16 at the time and it was horrendous for them. My son is autistic (asperger's syndrome), and thankfully one thing he has as a result of his autism is a photo like memory for things that were said by people.

My ex had told my son that I had an affair with a woman prior to her relationship with her lover. She swore my son to secrecy saying "Dad would be really embarrased if he ever found out that you (my son) knew".

It was almost 18 months afterwards that my son slipped and made a comment and I questioned him about what he said? He told me what his mother had told him and it all began to explode in her face after that. That lead to a conversation with my daughter who, after realising she was being played as well, finally opened up and told me about all the thing her Mum was saying about me. We (my daughter and I) had been through a terrible time the proceeding 12 months all because of the things my ex was saying to her to "spit" us.

When the lies were finally exposed it really blew up. My son confronted his mother armed with a precise recollection all of all that he had been told about me having an affair, and rather than just confess she lied and apologise, my ex blamed it on my son's autism, saying "I never said Dad was having an affair, you just got things confussed because of your autism".

That was the beginning of the end of their relationship. Things just spiralled downwards from there. My son and his mother have had no contact for more than 2 years now and it is incredibly sad.

That's the way of the narcissist. If they lie and the lie get exposed, they simply invent another lie.

So as you move on with your life. Document things that are said because you'll need to be able to refer back to them. The narcissist will run your mind around in circles and leave you questioning whether your the crazy one in the relationship. They will say things in one sentance and then immediately deny saying it in the next, and tell you "your stupid, how could you possibly think I would say something like that?" 

If your children are at a vulnerable age make them aware what nacissism is and the trates to watch out for, because he will try to make this all about you, and he will try to split you and the kids. It's just their way. Adult issues are only to be dealt with by the adults, but for god sake foster open lines of communication with your children so that they feel comfortable coming to you if they ever hear anything that doesn't fit in with their belief system about you as their Mom.

Also let your lawyer know he will be dealing with a narc. It will help him to understand how to deal with the negotiating phase of your separation and settlement.

Most of all good luck with moving forward with your life. Your are 100% doing the right thing.

Cheers

Rider           
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on October 08, 2014, 06:57:58 PM
Last few days have been tough, but after talking with the attorney - I feel at peace. The world isn't going to end and I will be fine.

He got angry today at the office. Before I would have felt that anger and started walking on egg-shells, fearing his displeasure and blaming myself (even when it wasn't me). It didn't even phase me, except to notice him being huffy.

Applied for another job. Crossed fingers!
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Hannah B on October 09, 2014, 09:25:11 PM
I've only just joined this. I had no idea anything like this existed until about half an hour ago. I just want to say thank you for all your stories and your willingness to share to let people know they aren't alone in this.

When I was 15, I got into a very serious relationship with a guy I knew well (he was 18 at the time). We started off just as friends and then ended up together after a while. He was always incredibly pushy when it came to sex and eventually he told me he had a porn addiction and also openly told me that he was into other girls. I was angry and hurt and it didn't help that I had suffered from depression and anxiety for a couple of years prior. I dealt with it really badly. My insecurities meant that I developed an eating disorder. He called my ED an addiction, just like his and constantly compared his porn addiction to my ED. I felt so horrible. And what was worse was that I felt like I wasn't giving him the support he needed. He stopped. That's what he told me.

I felt awful asking him over the next two years. Every time he told me it was gone for good and he seemed to hate me when I asked. He told me to trust him and forever questioned my trust in him. So I stopped asking until he told me he'd gone back to it. It was horrible. I immediately felt worthless again, like he was punishing me for not being good enough by looking to find perfection elsewhere. Three years after we first started seeing each other, I was at one of my lowest points and was restricting what I ate either too 500kcals max a day or "fasting". Everything else in my life was finally feeling really good, but his addiction kept pulling me down and he treated me with less and less love. Around that time, he got down on one knee and proposed. I felt trapped and, for all the wrong reasons, said yes. I was filled with so much dread at the thought of marrying him. I know how awful that sounds, but I was so desperately miserable. I couldn't trust the man I was supposed to marry and I was completely alone because I had absolutely no one to talk to about it. He was so controlling of everything in my life that I didn't even know who I was as an individual anymore. I made the decision to end it. The day before I'd decided I needed to break off our engagement, I finally opened up to my mum. I cried and cried and that evening I had a panic attack. I felt plagued with guilt in the lead up. But, once I'd ended it, I just felt relieved, like a burden had been lifted from my shoulders. I started living again.

But I still have huge trust issues when it comes to men. My expectations of men are exactly where my ex was. He told me how common it was and so I expect every guy to be the same in this respect (no disrespect to any men out there - I'm purely sharing my experiences and how I feel as a result).

Anyway, sorry for my lengthy ramble and thank you all for sharing your stories and advice. I only wish I'd come across this sooner.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Gabe Deem on October 09, 2014, 11:44:44 PM
@ Hannah B

Quote
So I stopped asking until he told me he'd gone back to it. It was horrible. I immediately felt worthless again, like he was punishing me for not being good enough by looking to find perfection elsewhere.

I'm sorry you had to go through that. I can assure you that it's not your fault, and as I explain in this article (http://www.cosmopolitan.co.uk/reports/news/a30287/an-ex-porn-addicts-message-to-jennifer-lawrence/), guys are hooked by porn because of the novelty, not attractiveness.

Quote
Anyway, sorry for my lengthy ramble and thank you all for sharing your stories and advice. I only wish I'd come across this sooner.

This site is here so we can share our thoughts and experiences... you did not ramble. Your post was very touching and I'm glad you shared it and I hope you know you are in a place you can get support and simply find people who relate and can offer up advice, or at the very least, a virtual shoulder to cry on.

Again, I hope and pray for healing for you and I know you can get through this. We're all here for you. Glad you found this site, and we hope you stick around.

Hope the best for you. Much love


Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Hannah B on October 10, 2014, 05:14:44 AM
Gabe, thank you so much for your encouragement. I really applaud the work you're doing to help those with an addiction and those around them affected by it.

How do you suggesting helping/supporting someone with a porn addiction, whilst still protecting and guarding yourself?
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Gracie on October 11, 2014, 07:46:12 AM
SORP,  You are getting some great insights here.  I really appreciate reading them.  I think you are growing as an individual which is a great thing to do for yourself. 

The relationship with self for the porn addict is an important insight.  Because as long as that is the most important thing, they cannot reach out to others and it is always their main concern.  So thank you!

Hope everything is going okay for you in planning your future!
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on October 11, 2014, 08:49:18 AM
Gabe, thank you so much for your encouragement. I really applaud the work you're doing to help those with an addiction and those around them affected by it.

How do you suggesting helping/supporting someone with a porn addiction, whilst still protecting and guarding yourself?

I know you addressed the question to Gabe, but I'll throw in some thoughts.

Number One - Know yourself. Respect Yourself. Love Yourself. I thought I had this down, but I didn't. Any addiction requires the addict surrender themselves to the addiction. This is how addiction survives. The addict will preserve and protect that addiction with disconnection - choosing a relationship with the addiction rather than real life people.

In trying to help him I set aside myself. I abandoned my own self respect. I did not love myself and relinquished my boundaries. I accepted most of the responsibilities for his recovery, when they weren't mine to take.

You will not find a single success story here or anywhere where the SO saved the addict. The addict has to face that on his or her own. Support means you love that person enough to let them do that and walk away so they can.

I did everything I could. I followed advice. I read. I studied. I focused on him and let the fear of relapse and failure define me. His moods became my moods. I no longer really trusted him and still don't. I let his criticisms of my body, my value as a person,  comparisons with other women become my truth. I was in agony, until I began to Know myself. Respect myself. Love myself

How to: Know yourself. Respect Yourself. Love Yourself

JOURNAL! This thread is my journal. It is the sometimes daily thoughts I have on my indirect relationship with porn addiction. This thread and another on a similar site have been invaluable to help me understand my role as an SO REBOOT PARTNER.

I did a lot of "reboot reporting" in my thread. I really didn't start to discover myself until I really read my own thoughts and saw some disturbing patterns. Whatever you write will be valuable to your recovery. Let yourself go with it, don't concern yourself with popularity or responses or anything - just pour it out for yourself.

KNOW YOU ARE NOT A FAILURE - While the result is that we are headed for divorce, it is still a success story. I am not miserable. I am not so lonely. I'm not depressed or worried anymore. I'm not dependent on him for feeling sexy or desirable, because I just am that without him. I have healthy boundaries again. I respect these boundaries because I know, trust and respect myself. The addiction did not claim me as a victim. His addiction has one less person to blame for its existence, so he's closer to healing. This is success.

GET SOME HELP! Granted, I've been in a sexless marriage for nearly a decade before finding YBOP and discovering the source of his PIED. Believing I would never have sex again, or that I was worthy of it, for the rest of my life did a number on my noggin. Therapy has helped immensely.

KNOW YOU ARE LOVED UNCONDITIONALLY. I can be a real ass, but I forgive myself and go on. More than piety or a particular religion, develop your own spirituality. Spirituality is about your own being, whereas religion is more about belief. Religion can be spiritual and part of being, but it requires some depth not just following rules and tenets of faith.

My belief in about marriage, my role as wife and partner defined my being. This was a dangerous thing as bugs hit the fan. It allowed me to feel unloved and unlovable. Working on my being and what I am to become (my spirituality) opened up the unconditional love I have for myself. This will prepare me to love others with the same love.

While this isn't comprehensive, I wish someone had told me these things a year or eight years ago. Also, I wish I listened. I try not to be regretful, but it is really a tough journey.

Wish you the best, Hannah B. I really am sorry you are going through this. Hugs and nothing but the truth -
SORP



Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on October 11, 2014, 08:51:12 AM
SORP,  You are getting some great insights here.  I really appreciate reading them.  I think you are growing as an individual which is a great thing to do for yourself. 

The relationship with self for the porn addict is an important insight.  Because as long as that is the most important thing, they cannot reach out to others and it is always their main concern.  So thank you!

Hope everything is going okay for you in planning your future!

Jinx, I owe you a Coke! (you can tell I come from the backwoods with that comment)

I'm fine and feeling better everyday.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Gabe Deem on October 11, 2014, 05:06:25 PM
@ Hannah B,

Quote
How do you suggesting helping/supporting someone with a porn addiction, whilst still protecting and guarding yourself?

Tough question and I have no perfect answer.

I think showing some grace is very important as no one is perfect, but each individual has to decide for themselves what they are willing to endure for a relationship.

SORP gave you some really good points.

Understand it's not your fault. Also, most women don't acknowledge or understand that their partners porn problem probably (not all of course) started wayyyyyy before he even knew them. It isn't always the case that the guy would rather have porn than a real women, he just keeps doing what he has always done. It's not that porn is consciously our first choice, but it was our first experience, which in turn "bonds" us to our devices and conditions us to seek and come back to the neurochemical high that internet porn's novelty can give us.

I'm NOT justifying anyone's behavior as it is extremely saddening to me that our choices have collateral damage and at times we don't care or understand. Each person who watches porn in a relationship has to own up to that. I'm simply explaining that what your partner is doing with porn may have started before you, and have nothing to do with you. But since we are all broken people at some level we tend to blame others, refuse to acknowledge a problem with our behavior, and reject claims about our selfishness. Again, each person has to own up to this.

Since this is an addiction, that comes with some very serious physiological brain changes, as a partner you need to understand that, that way you can have patience with mood swings etc. Learning the science of rebooting and porn use will really help you as well. Understanding his pull to porn isn't about your attraction or something you won't do, but more about the novelty, or simply laziness/selfishness/lack of discipline it takes to pursue a women's heart and putting in the work of a relationship.

What you can do:

Create a safe environment to talk: One of the things I hear the most from guys is that when they open up to their partner they feel judged and the situation becomes hostile.... I know it's hard to do, but if your partner is willing to open up to you and shows a willingness to change, then do all you can to not curse him and shame him. It is OK to let him know you are disappointing and hurt, and even let him know that you won't be in a relationship where this continues, but don't shame, belittle and nag at him, this will push him away more than ever and he not only will keep everything inside, he might turn to porn because they don't belittle, shame and nag. Not saying he's right for turning to porn, no way, just explaining he might seek a "safe environment" if you don't provide one.

You don't have to "put up" with his porn use, and I'd advise you to share your feelings, thoughts, expectations very openly to him, but if there is a desire in him to quit, then be as understanding as possible. You can't know his heart.... so every partner has to evaluate their own situation accordingly.

Talking about the science with him will help tremendously, because it keeps it on physiology and nothing else.

Here is a great article with 5 tips for partners: http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/boyfriend-quitting-porn-5-tips

and this one: http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/dating-a-heavy-porn-user

I'd also suggest starting a journal and sharing what you want, and asking what you need. It is very therapeutic to let it out, and important to know you are not alone.

I hope that helps. I hope the best for you and thank you for the kind words. Much Love


Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on October 13, 2014, 06:42:48 AM
I would add to Gabe's comment about a safe place. As an SO, you need a safe place too. A lot of your frustration, anxiety and anger will be dismissed and never allowed to fully dissipate. You will be tasked with taking the higher road at times when you don't really want to (or need to in order to heal). You need a safe place to rage and get it out, work out the toxicity before it poisons you.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on October 14, 2014, 06:20:22 AM
I am beginning to wonder if taking a break from being a couple (and all the expectations that come with that label) is helpful to overcoming the crappy, no good, crippling anxiety that comes with being an SO to a PA.

Part of moving towards divorce is detaching from one another and our baggage. (In our case, some giant leather-bound steamer trunks filled with rocks.) It is liberating.

I have let go of fixing the ED or worrying about how he feels today or if he's connecting with the kids. (We have not discussed our pending divorce with the kids yet. I burst into tears every time I think about it.)

I am planning a life of co-parenting, applying for jobs in a 150mi radius that I can find in my career genre. I write cheerful cover letters and plot midpoints between here and there for friendly visitation hand-offs. I am looking at housing, thinking of how to set up the bedrooms so the kids feel at home in a new strange place. I wonder if they will ever think of another place as home.

I'm thinking about who I am, not the label affixed to me like those price tags on coffee cups that never seem to scrape off completely with hot water and soap, only these say WIFE instead of $0.99.

I have a lot of change to digest. He does not.

Reminder to self - I need to write about how pre-divorce has made our relationship better in my next entry.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Gracie on October 14, 2014, 04:17:53 PM
Hannah B.

You need to take care of yourself.  You need to have a safe place.  You have a right to your feelings.  You have a right to your beliefs about relationships and what it takes to make a good one.   Yes this is a tough road but you can choose how to travel on it.

You are worth everything you do!
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Therewolf on October 15, 2014, 02:05:21 PM
Hello SORP,

I'm new here, but I've read your journal in its entirety and all I can say is WOW!

You are an incredible woman for exhibiting such love and devotion to your estranged husband.  I am so sorry for all the struggles you have had to endure and it breaks my heart to hear that your marriage is ending.  However, you sound like you are in a much better place at the moment.

Keep your head high and know that your story has helped us all to gain perspective and understanding of some very difficult relationship issues.

I wish you all the luck in the world and hope that you finally find the love you so obviously deserve.   :)
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on October 19, 2014, 01:55:55 PM
Some quick words learned this week - MANOPAUSE. Also I got the ice-bucket challenge regarding his feelings for me and our pending divorce.

I am an unpredictable soul-devouring ogre that gnaws on the marrow of HIS happiness. Also I can't get along with people, even though I've brought business into the office and he admits that I have done an "adequate job" running his office.  :o

He has communicated to me that he really, definitely, absolutely and in a totes honest way wants a d-i-v-o-r-c-e. Only he doesn't want to file, move out or change anything about HIS daily pattern, lifestyle or income. He envisions a divorce where I get a super, high-paying job in our county of less than 20K people (so he doesn't pay support) , can be amicable to his many lady-friends (for the sake of the kids) AND not "be an embarrassment" by living in a nice home (with the kids because he feels his influence with them is best scheduled) and not becoming a bar-fly or town harlot.

(Note again - divorce means many changes for me and the kids. Huband's life changes = zero, except for lack of guilt or consequence for chasing skirts or PMO. ALSO HE'S MAKING THE DIVORCE MY IDEA NOW.)

Hey, What a great plan! I hadn't planned on life as a bar-fly or town harlot (mostly because I am a weak drunk and particular about partners), so this plan seems pretty reasonable. LOL

So here's my thinking - THIS ALL ISN'T JUST PMO addiction for the 40+ Set.

Midlife crisis, Manopause, the Man-change, heck pick a name for getting old it is just a fact. A child born in 1900 had an average lifespan was around 47 years old1. Nobody had time for "retirement", or second trophy wives because they were dead by the time all that became an issue.

Men really don't handle change to their bodies as well as women. Our bodies  endure some pretty dramatic changes when we reach puberty, have babies, breast feed those babies and get older, losing estrogen and stop ovulating. It is probably this understanding of aging that makes ladies overlook the funky ear hair and eyebrow s-i-t-u-a-t-i-o-n on old guys. Dudes lose testosterone as they get older and start blaming that old hag next to them in the bed because she's making him FEEL OLD AND LESS OF A MAN! HE'S JUST NOT HAPPY ABOUT IT!

It is this mid-life, sorta-physical, somewhat hormonal, medically foggy, aging transition where many marriages get tested. Some survive and some don't.

I think the porn played a part in this, also his childhood and the resulting narcissism in that it allowed Mr. SORP to loose hissef (Sp and I'm leaving it) in the fantasy of conquering hero, Manly Man of Men, the GUY-WITH-THE-HAREM-OF-YOUNG-WOMINS. Meanie Ogre that I am, dumped a load on that bit of fun.

The thing is not all men have problems with this transition, but some do. I happen to be married to one that does - due to physical and environmental and psychological reasons he's having a rough go of it.

I suspect more than one or two of those in the 40+ group are having the same issues. The fatigue, the reduced or non-existing libido and anxiety over what the little guy will do when you get with a lady. It is pretty scary, but is it all pa-related?

Male MidLife Transistion, Androphase or whatever has a list of symptoms that can be caused by many things. There is too much ambiguity in the spectrum of symptoms to validate the condition. (it is somewhat the same with p-addiction for this group because at 40+ the testosterone levels are diminished.

I may just have the perfect storm brewing here and might have to just get in the root cellar.


1  http://www.elderweb.com/book/appendix/1900-2000-changes-life-expectancy-united-states

Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: STR on October 19, 2014, 04:23:59 PM
From the way you describe him, your husband sounds like a pretty big jerk.

If you end up proceeding with the divorce, I am curious to know what you plan to tell your children. I assume that your husband does not plan to tell them about his porn addiction or emotional affair, so if the children are going to know about those things, they would have to hear it from you. Are you planning to tell them? I can understand why you wouldn't, but if you don't, then they probably wouldn't understand why you wanted a divorce and they would probably blame you for it while your husband would get to be the "good guy" and the victim...
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on October 19, 2014, 05:12:24 PM
From the way you describe him, your husband sounds like a pretty big jerk.

If you end up proceeding with the divorce, I am curious to know what you plan to tell your children. I assume that your husband does not plan to tell them about his porn addiction or emotional affair, so if the children are going to know about those things, they would have to hear it from you. Are you planning to tell them? I can understand why you wouldn't, but if you don't, then they probably wouldn't understand why you wanted a divorce and they would probably blame you for it while your husband would get to be the "good guy" and the victim...

First, the kids are not getting a divorce from their parents. He is a big jerk, but also their father. I won't be revealing the secrets of our marriage. If he does this, or tells lies it will be a mistake on his part.

That being said, the kids know who is part of their life and who is a distracted, disengaged unimpressed with them as people observer. Conjuring the character of "good guy" will be difficult and require work on his part - something that he finds unsustainable at this time when he deserves a better wife. At one point he did tell our children they needed to think about his emotional attachment's children - our greedy little selfish, thoughtless demons just wanted to sell donuts to him for a school fundraiser. I about lost my mind on that one, but it's in the past.

They are 12 and 14 now. I am trying my best to find a job near my extended family so my kids have the support of cousins, aunts (including his sister) and uncles, grandparents and great aunts to understand how families really work by caring and loving one another. If I can't live close, I will be engaging therapy of some type and kind so they have someone other than Mom or Dad to really get the anger out - I may do this no matter what the outcome.

Dude has made it clear what he wants and it isn't us. He might "snap out of it" or be perfectly happy with his new love. Don't care.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: rider654321 on October 19, 2014, 07:31:23 PM
SORP, you have your head in the right place to deal with what's ahead. I wish you all the best.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Gracie on October 23, 2014, 06:25:39 AM
Hope you are doing well.  I know this is a hard decision to make and not one that is made lightly.  Just remember that no one else lives your life for you.  You need to take care of yourself and your children.  I do miss seeing your writing here everyday.  You have such good insights.

Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Deuce26 on October 27, 2014, 11:15:24 AM
You have an interesting take on your situation. He seems to be quite the ass in requesting his take on what your "divorce" should look like. His life will change as much as yours will, there is no mistaking that.

Manopause.....mid life crisis....I've heard those terms before. I'm not sure if I believe in them so much as it is everyone's own life path and journey that shapes them.

I get a sporty car not because my life is in crisis, but because I can finally afford and enjoy one. And I don't think I am compensating for anything. And if my little guy doesn't meet expectations, I have hands and a mouth that can serve amicably in the mid to later innings when my staring pitcher isn't giving his best stuff. And maybe he is the same way, but he can't express his true self and intentions because he isn't there yet. Maybe he is suffering from menopause and trying to regain his youth to match his experience and wants. I think it's more that he can't man up to his changing self and to talk to someone about it.

Maybe he couldn't express himself when he was vulnerable as a child to his closest female influence, his mom. Or he was told that if he had a problem, that he needed to try to solve the problem himself and to not get all emotional because that wasn't becoming of a man.

Or maybe, just maybe, I am talking about me.....and my experience, and how watching porn meant I could get off without having to interact with a woman because that would mean feeling vulnerable, and that ain't no way to act with a woman. A man is supposed to be strong and have all of the answers and act in a behavior becoming to a man and can earn a woman's respect.

It doesn't always work that way, and being a man means being vulnerable to the one's he loves the most. And I am discovering that and finding that it makes me feel good even if it means others do not. At least the story is out there.

D
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on October 28, 2014, 06:28:35 AM
You have an interesting take on your situation. He seems to be quite the ass in requesting his take on what your "divorce" should look like. His life will change as much as yours will, there is no mistaking that.

Manopause.....mid life crisis....I've heard those terms before. I'm not sure if I believe in them so much as it is everyone's own life path and journey that shapes them.

I get a sporty car not because my life is in crisis, but because I can finally afford and enjoy one. And I don't think I am compensating for anything. And if my little guy doesn't meet expectations, I have hands and a mouth that can serve amicably in the mid to later innings when my staring pitcher isn't giving his best stuff. And maybe he is the same way, but he can't express his true self and intentions because he isn't there yet. Maybe he is suffering from menopause and trying to regain his youth to match his experience and wants. I think it's more that he can't man up to his changing self and to talk to someone about it.

Maybe he couldn't express himself when he was vulnerable as a child to his closest female influence, his mom. Or he was told that if he had a problem, that he needed to try to solve the problem himself and to not get all emotional because that wasn't becoming of a man.

Or maybe, just maybe, I am talking about me.....and my experience, and how watching porn meant I could get off without having to interact with a woman because that would mean feeling vulnerable, and that ain't no way to act with a woman. A man is supposed to be strong and have all of the answers and act in a behavior becoming to a man and can earn a woman's respect.

It doesn't always work that way, and being a man means being vulnerable to the one's he loves the most. And I am discovering that and finding that it makes me feel good even if it means others do not. At least the story is out there.

D

Yeah, I'm not really buying into the midlife crisis thing either. I think I was still looking for "why?" when that answer doesn't exist. He's got problems, but this bitch ain't one.

He really does not believe his life will change much after divorce. That seems to be the theme. He hasn't changed and I want him to change. Huh? The porn and fantasy has disconnected him, allowed him to meet his needs without me. In his mind, he's already divorced - going through the courts is just fulfilling what he's already done virtually - removing me from his world. He is doing everything he can to minimize the changes in his world, or at least the appearance of changes. He does have a false sense of self that is fed by the appearance of certain "things" - car, fancy watch, good-looking kids, blond secretary. I was on that list as long as I turned my paycheck over to him so he could appear more successful. (He doesn't like to talk about this, I don't either simply because of how stupid it was.)

To be so smart, I am very foolish. Just a statement of fact here, not something to sweat over.

Part of my healing has been disconnecting myself from the codependency. That is to say, stop enabling him, walking on eggshells, making excuses, feeding his ego, digesting his feelings/mood as my own. It has been hard, while living in the same house, but I see results. I have dreams again! My dreams, not attached to him or that false self of him - I'm accepting the reality of the situation. I'm seeing a future vision of myself. I'm a better mom. I see how I will live, thrive, love and trust again. I'm taking steps to get there. I'm more ME everyday.

I am not completely lost. I have mad, crazy, marketable skills. Even with the five year gap in my resume - I'm getting some nice action on the employment front. I will be able to choose, not just settle, thankfully. I have my business act together - and let's be clear, he did NOTHING to help me get that or create an "appearance" of success. I have my own credit, own connections, a self that is real and EARNED.

I have engaged a lawyer.
I'm feeling done with therapy.
I've made a tax impact list.
I have the love and support of my family. They have my back.
I have a vision and understanding of the reality.
I'm done crying.
I'm going to be fine.


Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on November 05, 2014, 07:12:55 AM
During the Holidays, I set up a jigsaw puzzle (or two) on the dining room table. The family challenge is to complete the puzzles before the Holiday meal.

Everyone takes part in finding shapes and related color/patterns that fit together making a whole picture come into focus. Every family member has a different way of approaching the puzzle, different insights into finding a solution. Some look at the end result - the picture printed on the box - and try to find where pieces might fit together. Others will study the yin of puzzle shapes and intensely look for the corresponding yang. Still others will make color piles of pieces so the set of possible solutions for a given fit are easily identified. There are other tricks and methods, all different and unique, to approach the re-building of the whole.

Rebuilding a relationship, returning to wholeness, is a lot like working that puzzle. Only differences are that the end picture is missing or had coffee spilled on it, some pieces are missing and maybe a few critical corner pieces got gnawed on by the puppy and maybe there were two or three puzzles in that ziplock bag, not just one.

A pre-owned family, like a yard-sale puzzle, is a lot harder to put together than starting out with a new puzzle, straight from the store.

I think with the PMO it is clear we were working the puzzle off of two different box tops and neither of those matched the puzzle pieces.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on November 07, 2014, 03:05:33 AM
Life right now is pretty miserable.

He definitely wants a divorce, citing that I "just make him feel bad" and he's tired of it. If I stand up for myself in the slightest way, I'm making him feel bad or living in the past.

He did let me know that I've "helped" HIS BUSINESS (found the location, negotiated lease, setup IT/data management, decorated, oversaw renovations, perform janitorial services, designed his stationary, done all the accounting, administrative tasks, billing, banking, established an internet presence and I answer the phone) but that he really needs someone blonder/younger because in his twisted mind it shows the world he's more successful.

Unwinding the codependency, I understand there is no such thing as quid pro quo or empathy in this relationship. I have been supporting his false sense of self for many years without ever realizing it. As long as he was able to see that I was bolstering that vision of himself, I would be given the tiniest morsel of affection and attention to keep me going. I think my false self (the codependent) was a way to rationalize treatment from him most women would not tolerate.

He's exploited some thin business relationships to poop on my legal representation. I'm back to looking for a lawyer due to professional conflict of interest. Yippee, more life lessons.

I'm ready to grab a pot and wooden spoon and just hog-call in the whores to come get this man out of my life. "Come-an-git-'im Ladies!"
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: chiefmitch88 on November 07, 2014, 11:28:27 AM
Glad to hear you are learning to stand on your own. If he's lucky he might wake up in a few years when he is at the exact same point in his relationship with a different woman. When the novelty of sex wears off or when he can't get it up no matter how blonde or young she is. Some people just aren't able to accept the common denominator in their series of unhealthy relationships - THEMSELVES!! I shudder to imagine the amount of emotional pain that addiction causes every day.

You are accepting your own faults and that is important. It means that when you are healed and all is said and done you will be the one who finds a meaningful relationship because you will be able to set boundaries that are constructive. You will not lose yourself for the sake of someone else. You will find someone to stand beside rather than constantly propping them up with little appreciation to show for the support you provide. You are doing the right thing. For all the life lessons you are receiving he is receiving many as well. He's just an addict so he can't recognize them at the moment. We ignore the lessons that life is trying to teach us because we are pacified into apathy  by our addiction. The addict inside tells us that life will be fine as long as we have our fix.

You sound like a hard worker and a dedicated partner. You have so much value! Addiction has a way of clouding our judgement and we can no longer discern the value of the people in our lives. Don't forget to care for yourself through this whole endeavor. Find an activity that fulfills you spiritually and keep yourself afloat. Hang in there SORP!



 
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on November 10, 2014, 12:37:14 PM
Life right now is pretty miserable.

He definitely wants a divorce, citing that I "just make him feel bad" and he's tired of it. If I stand up for myself in the slightest way, I'm making him feel bad or living in the past.

He did let me know that I've "helped" HIS BUSINESS (found the location, negotiated lease, setup IT/data management, decorated, oversaw renovations, perform janitorial services, designed his stationary, done all the accounting, administrative tasks, billing, banking, established an internet presence and I answer the phone) but that he really needs someone blonder/younger because in his twisted mind it shows the world he's more successful.

Unwinding the codependency, I understand there is no such thing as quid pro quo or empathy in this relationship. I have been supporting his false sense of self for many years without ever realizing it. As long as he was able to see that I was bolstering that vision of himself, I would be given the tiniest morsel of affection and attention to keep me going. I think my false self (the codependent) was a way to rationalize treatment from him most women would not tolerate.

He's exploited some thin business relationships to poop on my legal representation. I'm back to looking for a lawyer due to professional conflict of interest. Yippee, more life lessons.

I'm ready to grab a pot and wooden spoon and just hog-call in the whores to come get this man out of my life. "Come-an-git-'im Ladies!"
It's his loss. What a shame!
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: savingmysoul on November 12, 2014, 03:13:21 PM
hey SORP -

Hang in there - thinking and praying for you and your family.

SMS
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Kaybee on November 13, 2014, 03:29:31 AM
I'm praying for you too, SORP. You're not alone right now. You're a strong woman and you can handle anything life throws at you. I know your children must be very blessed to have you as a role model for them.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on November 13, 2014, 09:02:13 PM
Thanks for all the good wishes. I'm really healing now, not posting much, but feeling much, much better.

Why am I mourning the loss of a relationship that included 8 or so years of unnecessary celibacy, constant emotional starvation and disconnection?

There's a pony in there somewhere*, I think, maybe not for this relationship, but perhaps for the next one.

I see so many things that I've done wrong, acts and assumptions, turning a blind eye and ignoring the signs. I am on to my own tricks now, keeping up appearances - my own narcissism of being "wife" and refusing to admit when things just aren't right, burying the shame, hiding the secret of neglect until it ruptures with toxic fury.

I am learning to communicate my boundaries. I'm learning that some of the emotional feels I once had weren't even mine. Codependents are enablers, by taking on all the doubt and self loathing.

I did this because I didn't have good boundaries. I am still learning.

*http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/12/13/pony-somewhere/
Worried that their twin boys had developed extreme personalities – one was a total pessimist, the other a total optimist – their parents took them to a psychiatrist.

First the psychiatrist treated the pessimist. Trying to brighten his outlook, the psychiatrist took him to a room piled to the ceiling with brand-new toys. But instead of yelping with delight, the little boy burst into tears. 'What's the matter?' the psychiatrist asked, baffled. 'Don't you want to play with any of the toys?' 'Yes,' the little boy bawled, 'but if I did I'd only break them.'”

Next the psychiatrist treated the optimist. Trying to dampen his out look, the psychiatrist took him to a room piled to the ceiling with horse manure. But instead of wrinkling his nose in disgust, the optimist emitted just the yelp of delight the psychiatrist had been hoping to hear from his brother, the pessimist. Then he clambered to the top of the pile, dropped to his knees, and began gleefully digging out scoop after scoop with his bare hands. 'What do you think you're doing?' the psychiatrist asked, just as baffled by the optimist as he had been by the pessimist. 'With all this manure,' the little boy replied, beaming, 'there must be a pony in here somewhere!'”


 
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on November 13, 2014, 10:52:02 PM
Thanks for all the good wishes. I'm really healing now, not posting much, but feeling much, much better.

Why am I mourning the loss of a relationship that included 8 or so years of unnecessary celibacy, constant emotional starvation and disconnection?

There's a pony in there somewhere*, I think, maybe not for this relationship, but perhaps for the next one.

I see so many things that I've done wrong, acts and assumptions, turning a blind eye and ignoring the signs. I am on to my own tricks now, keeping up appearances - my own narcissism of being "wife" and refusing to admit when things just aren't right, burying the shame, hiding the secret of neglect until it ruptures with toxic fury.

I am learning to communicate my boundaries. I'm learning that some of the emotional feels I once had weren't even mine. Codependents are enablers, by taking on all the doubt and self loathing.

I did this because I didn't have good boundaries. I am still learning.

*http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/12/13/pony-somewhere/
Worried that their twin boys had developed extreme personalities – one was a total pessimist, the other a total optimist – their parents took them to a psychiatrist.

First the psychiatrist treated the pessimist. Trying to brighten his outlook, the psychiatrist took him to a room piled to the ceiling with brand-new toys. But instead of yelping with delight, the little boy burst into tears. 'What's the matter?' the psychiatrist asked, baffled. 'Don't you want to play with any of the toys?' 'Yes,' the little boy bawled, 'but if I did I'd only break them.'”

Next the psychiatrist treated the optimist. Trying to dampen his out look, the psychiatrist took him to a room piled to the ceiling with horse manure. But instead of wrinkling his nose in disgust, the optimist emitted just the yelp of delight the psychiatrist had been hoping to hear from his brother, the pessimist. Then he clambered to the top of the pile, dropped to his knees, and began gleefully digging out scoop after scoop with his bare hands. 'What do you think you're doing?' the psychiatrist asked, just as baffled by the optimist as he had been by the pessimist. 'With all this manure,' the little boy replied, beaming, 'there must be a pony in here somewhere!'”

I admire your attitude and optimism. When I got divorced it devastated me emotionally, but I came back from it a better man. It sounds as if you are on a good path. I'm truly sorry that your marriage hasn't worked out, but unless he's willing to grow up and assume the responsibilities of a full grown man he won't be able to hold up his end of the bargain. You strike me as a sensible and decent person, I'm sure that your future will hold much happiness.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on November 21, 2014, 07:29:23 AM
Sexual or Intimacy Anorexia. I've been on an information binge again.

I know I shouldn't do this. I should be concentrating on my own self-care, not trying to figure out where everything went wrong - why did this happen? I have moments of the most profound emptiness. Searching for clues in the rubble, the forensics of passionless crimes, fills my thoughts for a time – this footprint, this burnt wire from the ignition switch, that scrap of bent metal. I try to piece together the events that led to this implosion of a marriage.

Husband had a rage that made my joints ache hours later from the adrenaline that rushed through me. Typing this, hands tremble a bit.

I stepped over one of his “non-emotional boundaries” and “berated” him by pointing out that he cannot make reference to hard core p-graphic troll internet images (the kind that have name recognition) in conversations with the kids - son is 14 and daughter is 12. ("Don't look up [blank] kids! LOL You’ll be sorry if you google [blank] and have to bleach your eyes!”) He got nose to nose with me and demanded I concede to his parental authority to foul their minds with trash to normalize his own defects. I wouldn't. Stand. Down. For 15 minutes I wouldn't. He raged. Tense and In.My.Face. Never touched me, but he tried to bully me - half an inch from my nose, eyeball to eyeball. When I shifted my weight, he claimed victory and my 'concession' to his superiority. [eyeroll] It was all very un-nerving and scary and I still feel it in my body almost a week later. He defended referencing what I looked up and found to be some very disgusting imagery. “It’s well known public knowledge! I’m not a monster! You’re crazy and an idiot!” He needs help.

The message was clear - my boundaries do not matter because they do matter and must be brought to heel. I am a threat that can lay bare all the emotions and hurts by criminalizing his favorite drug. I’m also getting stronger and he knows it.

http://www.posarc.com/partners/sexual-anorexia
I’ve experienced every single sign of a sexual anorexic/addict as the Partner of a Sex Addict (PoSA). The addiction is very important to him. More important than me or the kids. He’s rationalized it as good because it takes the pain away, avoids the messiness of intimacy, gives him control when everything is out of control. I read that all sexual addiction issues are intimacy issues.
That last one hit home. I'm a very good cook. Very good. He has and will refuse to eat in the most nonchalant, passive way possible.

I am a decent, loving person. This shit won't break me. I'm going to thrive. I will love and be loved.

12 year old daughter posted some thinspiration photos, thigh gap stuff. He was not even phased. "It's pretty common." I'm helping her feel good about herself, trying to teach her to love herself while limping along myself.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on November 21, 2014, 12:13:52 PM
As you said; he needs help. I can't believe that anyone would watch their life go down the drain without making the effort to change, but apparently he's doing just that.

That link was great. I can see my former behaviors in there and also see behaviors of a significant woman in my life, from years ago.

Hang in, you're doing great.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on November 22, 2014, 04:22:32 AM
As you said; he needs help. I can't believe that anyone would watch their life go down the drain without making the effort to change, but apparently he's doing just that.

That link was great. I can see my former behaviors in there and also see behaviors of a significant woman in my life, from years ago.

Hang in, you're doing great.

I really like that site as well. Gabe posted a link in the partner's form. I've found some very helpful insights there as I pass from the "discovery phase" to a healing phase.

I don't feel like I'm doing so great. I have good moments and bad. The good ones seem to happen when I'm resigned to the fact he's not interested in admitting he's lost control. Control seems to be what a lot of this is about because life is messy.

I thought a job I applied for a few months ago was closed, but there may be a second run for me. I'm holding my breath because I think I may really want it. I will know more on Monday. It would mean I leave for good and would live near my family for support. (Still far enough away to have my own life because I am a grown woman.) I am ready to break free and let it all go.

He has hobbled me with controlling the money, because I let him. He's controlled the intimacy I could give and receive within our marriage and hobbled my heart, because I let him. He controlled his pain with fantasy because he thought PMO would make it go away. He's blamed me for his pain and when the PMO didn't work anymore because I've been there to blame and I accepted it.

He's not a monster, but he's never going to get better if I stay with him.

I know I have no right to ask and you don't have to answer if you aren't comfortable with it - but LTE, do you think that you would have recovered if you stayed married?
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on November 22, 2014, 12:38:01 PM

I know I have no right to ask and you don't have to answer if you aren't comfortable with it - but LTE, do you think that you would have recovered if you stayed married?
I don't mind answering at all. In MY case, and speaking only for my marriage, I don't think that the marriage would have survived even if I had recovered. While I take full responsibility for my PMO, there were other problems in out marriage, to wit, she never left the control of her parents and discussed our sexual activity with her mother in detail. This was a big turn off to me and made me not want sex with her. Even with that being the case, it was very wrong of me to return to PMO. I should have confronted my wife about keeping our sex life private and not given in to self-gratification.

So in my case, and speaking only for my case, I think that our marriage was doomed either way and I think that I sensed this from early on. Keep in mind, I had over 900 days free of PMO during the early period in my marriage.

Many times I had wished that I would have been caught in the act and confronted. Had that happened I'm relatively certain that I could have used that embarrassment as an incentive towards recovering. Instead, as our marriage declined in health she was reabsorbed by her family of origin and I went back to being a loner, emotionally speaking.

Looking back on the last six years of our marriage it is obvious to me, at this point, that our marriage suffered a lingering death. Even though I accept full responsibility for the damage I caused with PMO, I would never want to go back to her under any circumstances. Those years, over a decade, were the worst of my life and that was due, IMO, to the toxicity of her family. I was chronically ill during that time and suffered from continuous digestive problems. I thought I would end up with a colostomy, and I was in my late thirties at the time. Now, over twenty years later my health is robust and I'm much happier.

Let me be very plain about this, none of this excuses my PMO! In my opinion, PMO is essentially solo adultery and is unacceptable in any marriage, even a troubled marriage; or even a doomed marriage. Masturbating while married is spending your sexual energy on someone other than your mate. It is a form of cheating and it is 100% wrong. A friend of mine was married to a woman that denied him sex for over half a decade. He never masturbated and she would do nothing to satisfy him sexually, not even a hand job. IMO, if one partner can't perform they can still pleasure their mate orally or manually and, once again IMO, probably should offer to do so. I believe very strongly that marriage grants exclusive sexual franchise to one's marriage partner and both parties should accept that responsibility towards their mate. There's no room for masturbation and there's no room for denying a marriage partner their due. PMO is a way of denying one's partner their due and that makes it dead wrong. I was in a bad marriage, but I was wrong to return to masturbation and porn.

If I could go back in time I would tell my younger self to gain control of my desires, because it's an essential skill, even when you are married and have ready access to sex. Once I had learned to control myself sexually, from that position of strength, I believe that I could have made better choices, including holding out for the right partner instead of rushing in to a marriage and ignoring obvious warning signs that my future in-laws would interfere in our marriage. FWIW, I actually started to break off my engagement but my fiancé was certain that things would be OK. I have regretted not breaking it off for nearly thirty years.

Ultimately, and feel free to have your husband read this; every man needs to learn to control himself sexually. It's an essential skill that all men need. Life is not like porn and having a real flesh and blood partner means that a true man has to be able to do without sex when his partner is not up to it (such as late-term pregnancy, early post-natal, menstruation, illness, etc). If a man can't do this he's not ready for marriage. Our surrounding culture no longer teaches this skill, but it is still required to have a successful life under any circumstances, married or single. I never felt like I was truly a mature man until I learned self control and I'm far from unique. This is an entry level skill that every person needs. Kinsey ladled out a lot of bad advice and remove sexual restraint from our culture, but he was apparently a sex-addicted man, someone that had no business passing out advice on sexual conduct.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on November 22, 2014, 11:22:09 PM
I read your post several times. There is so much strength and self reflection there, LTE.

So much of this - all forms and flavors of sexual addiction - does seem to hinge on intimacy issues, not the behavior in and of itself, but the avoidance of intimacy due to past harm or perceived threats to the real authentic self. It is protection.

Intimacy is like fog in my mind in that the environment has to be just right. The temperature and dew point have to match for fog to occur. In marriage there are a few more elements that have to "match" for intimacy to occur. Our authentic self has to be confident enough to be vulnerable. Our respect for each other has to be true, where we trust and are trustworthy. Boundaries must be at the same temperature so to speak.

It is a violation of trust to discuss the intimate details of a marriage with others. For me, this boundary made the walls of a prison. When things were good, it wasn't a problem. When boundaries were crossed, I told no one. When intimacy became weaker, I still clung to my personal boundary that I would not violate the trust and discuss our issues with anyone.

Like you, I got physically sick. I just finished a "timeline" for therapy and oddly enough, I started blood pressure medication right around the time the issues started. I've since had joint and back pains (unexplained) and I take medication for acid reflux, which just recently appeared. This stuff makes us sick imho!

The first time I discussed our marriage problems with anyone other than my husband was when I made that journal entry in the summer of 2013. I told him about it, but frankly I don't think he cares. As far as I know, he hasn't read any of this. I am somewhat certain he cried on the shoulder of his assistant, but I don't have a clue as to who he's talked to about our problems. All of this is after several (8+) years of sexual anorexia and intimacy avoidance.

While I've given the rewiring a good go of support for him, I don't think I can do that again. It stripped my wires, left me raw and exposed. I think my own more recent self imposed halt to intimacy (I've never said no before this) is to protect myself from further harm. I can't let it go on too long, because I don't want to be further damaged and unable to trust again. I think avoidance of intimacy is needed to heal, but I can't do it forever. I want to love again.

This weekend he's avoided any connection with me or the kids, except on the most mundane level. He's been parked in front of the television, binge watching. All. Day. Long. I've run in and out, collecting food donations with the kids for our community food bank. I'm taking them to see a movie tomorrow afternoon and I have to help the youngest get a project done while getting the laundry done, house cleaned and ready for next week's turkey day.

I have a lot to be thankful for. One is being able to drag the mouldering corpse of my marriage into semi-daylight. It has helped me find my way back to my authentic self. I'm less angry with him now, disconnected from the problem and more into what my future holds - even if my posts seem to be more about him than me at times.

I guess what all that rambling was about is we have to be true to our own boundaries and true selves to achieve true intimacy.

Thanks for always reading and helping me parse through these things, LTE. I really appreciate you sharing, it really does help me more than you know.

SORP.


Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on November 23, 2014, 12:27:39 AM
I read your post several times. There is so much strength and self reflection there, LTE.

So much of this - all forms and flavors of sexual addiction - does seem to hinge on intimacy issues, not the behavior in and of itself, but the avoidance of intimacy due to past harm or perceived threats to the real authentic self. It is protection.

Intimacy is like fog in my mind in that the environment has to be just right. The temperature and dew point have to match for fog to occur. In marriage there are a few more elements that have to "match" for intimacy to occur. Our authentic self has to be confident enough to be vulnerable. Our respect for each other has to be true, where we trust and are trustworthy. Boundaries must be at the same temperature so to speak.

It is a violation of trust to discuss the intimate details of a marriage with others. For me, this boundary made the walls of a prison. When things were good, it wasn't a problem. When boundaries were crossed, I told no one. When intimacy became weaker, I still clung to my personal boundary that I would not violate the trust and discuss our issues with anyone.

Like you, I got physically sick. I just finished a "timeline" for therapy and oddly enough, I started blood pressure medication right around the time the issues started. I've since had joint and back pains (unexplained) and I take medication for acid reflux, which just recently appeared. This stuff makes us sick imho!

The first time I discussed our marriage problems with anyone other than my husband was when I made that journal entry in the summer of 2013. I told him about it, but frankly I don't think he cares. As far as I know, he hasn't read any of this. I am somewhat certain he cried on the shoulder of his assistant, but I don't have a clue as to who he's talked to about our problems. All of this is after several (8+) years of sexual anorexia and intimacy avoidance.

While I've given the rewiring a good go of support for him, I don't think I can do that again. It stripped my wires, left me raw and exposed. I think my own more recent self imposed halt to intimacy (I've never said no before this) is to protect myself from further harm. I can't let it go on too long, because I don't want to be further damaged and unable to trust again. I think avoidance of intimacy is needed to heal, but I can't do it forever. I want to love again.

This weekend he's avoided any connection with me or the kids, except on the most mundane level. He's been parked in front of the television, binge watching. All. Day. Long. I've run in and out, collecting food donations with the kids for our community food bank. I'm taking them to see a movie tomorrow afternoon and I have to help the youngest get a project done while getting the laundry done, house cleaned and ready for next week's turkey day.

I have a lot to be thankful for. One is being able to drag the mouldering corpse of my marriage into semi-daylight. It has helped me find my way back to my authentic self. I'm less angry with him now, disconnected from the problem and more into what my future holds - even if my posts seem to be more about him than me at times.

I guess what all that rambling was about is we have to be true to our own boundaries and true selves to achieve true intimacy.

Thanks for always reading and helping me parse through these things, LTE. I really appreciate you sharing, it really does help me more than you know.

SORP.
The adage is true; it takes two to make a marriage succeed, but only one to destroy it. I sometimes wonder if some of the choices I made were self-sabotage because I believed I didn't deserve a good marriage, or perhaps, wanted to avoid intimacy. I could go on endlessly about problems that may have predisposed me to the problems I went through. I was sexually molested by an older cousin and at times felt that my mother's love was contingent on my membership in the church of her choice. I won't elaborate further except to say that I definitely have had to deal with intimacy issues. Nonetheless, it's what I crave the most. If I could have anything it would be a large and loving family.

It's laudible that you kept the intimate details of your marriage confidential for as long as you have. IMO, that's a sign of faithfulness. Obviously, at this point there is no intimacy to keep confidential.

The physical sickness will reverse. I was in my early forties when things came apart and I didn't expect to live much longer. Now, fifteen years hence, I'm healthy and active. It's not perfect, but it's a lot better than it used to be. My blood pressure went from very high to normal.

Hang in and believe in yourself. It's truly your husband's loss if he's willing to turn away from the intimacy you are offering.

Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on November 24, 2014, 09:43:24 PM
I slept in the same bed with him last night. I've been sleeping on the couch. The bedroom has been the "rejection room" in my mind, where I cried myself to sleep and endured those years of involuntary celibacy.

The room doesn't hold that kind of power over me so much now. I was very tired last night so I took a nice warm shower with my new shower puff thingie and lavender/vanilla calming soap and put myself to bed with the care and love I deserve.

It takes a lot of time to get through the discovery phase of being an SO. I read there are 6 phases or stages of recovery for the spouse/SO of a sex addict. Each has its own little surprise bag of fun and thorns.
http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2013/09/12/6-stages-of-recovery-for-partners-of-sex-addicts/#footnote_0_49427

    Developing/Pre-discovery
    Crisis/Decision/Information Gathering
    Shock
    Grief/Ambivalence
    Repair
    Growth

I know a these stages aren't very fun to witness. I'm living it and it isn't fun to be in the middle of it. I'm sure more than one reader has wanted to just tell me (or their SO) to just get over it and stop making such a big deal.

I found this very condescending wiki-how that is just all kinds of "stop acting like porn is a big deal" for girl friends that  feel their bf is off the deep end in the PMO department. http://www.wikihow.com/Accept-Your-Boyfriend%27s-Interest-in-Pornography The problem isn't porn, gals - it's your mindset? Come on - wikihow really? Thanks for enabling while puttin' those ladies right, wikihow.

I think I've been in the shock phase for the last few months. i think I'm moving on into the grief and ambivalence. I'm doing little things to be good to myself. I think it is working because he got mad today (tried to blame me for one of his mistakes) and I didn't feel it or accept it. I just went on. The codependency is dissipating.

I don't feel the overwhelming resentment and hopelessness so much. That doesn't mean it may not rear its ugly head again - but I think I'm getting through this maze. Self care is very important. I found this really nice list of self care which would be good for SO's and their partners - Guys like bubble baths too! Also babying and pampering yourself is just the right thing to do. http://theselfcompassionproject.com/2013/06/03/80-self-care-ideas/

I think when we are gentle with ourselves, we listen to our bodies with more respect. For many, not listening has brought all kinds of issues. For me it has been acid reflux and high blood pressure because I took on stress I didn't need to take on.

In the end, the bedroom is just a room, the bed is just a bed. These things should not have power over me. I think it is the care and love I have for myself that allows me to sleep soundly and well.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on November 30, 2014, 10:36:04 AM
I am definitely moving out of the shock and awe stage of SO recovery and into the grief and ambivalence. For me, each stage had the following characteristics:

Developing/Pre-discovery:

This was the stage where I knew something was wrong. I found evidence here and there of PMO issues and chose to ignore the diminishing intimacy or blame myself for his neglect. I handled my doubts and soothed myself by weakening my boundaries. I allowed him to completely discount me as his wife and helped him justify a fantasy of his secretary/latest vid as his dream girl. He enjoyed the freedom of engaging in PMO/fantasy without recourse. He hid it well and trained me to fear his wrath if questions arose. He would occasionally add a little spark of danger by throwing a comment or two right in my face. I accepted his claims that I was controlling, even as I turned a blind eye to the obvious and cried alone rather than address the problem.

Any moments of strength in this period were short lived. I discounted my own needs for trust, intimacy, affection and belonging as a character faults - I thought the emptiness and disconnection I felt were because I was "high maintenance" rather than just normal human needs for connection and being. I forgot that we are spiritual creatures living a human experience. I became very depressed and began neglecting my own care. I was empty and lost, blind and emotionally raw.

Crisis/Decision/Information Gathering

I caught him engaged in PMO in July 2013. We just returned from vacation and he was fully disconnected from me and the kids. I had had enough. I confronted. I found YBOP a few days later and the Reboot seemed like the answer. I decided to forgive him for all the past and go forward fresh, even if he didn't ask for forgiveness or even acknowledge his transgressions and the impact on our marriage or the kids' childhood.

I threw myself into his care and recovery from PMO. (you can read my efforts in my journals, it is common for SO's of sexual addictions to throw themselves completely into the partner's recovery) I incorrectly assumed if he could have an erection again he would reconnect and at least have the motivation to try to be a husband and father. I thought the PIED was the main issue here. He did improve for a short period of time. He told me he was very lucky.

EDIT: I felt very proud of myself for all my research and "curing" him with rewiring. While addiction has narcissistic elements - so does being a caregiver in my case. I gained identity in the role of caregiver, fixer and "good wife" but forgot about the authentic me, the lady that had depleted her love bank and self esteem instead I became the codependent - the one that expected a "payoff in self esteem" when there never was going to be one.

Then came the relapse, a return to the same old routine. He fantasized during lovemaking, called me names, demanded pleasure for himself and defiantly ignored giving any to me. He would park his breathing corpse on the the couch and watched TV all weekend, refusing to shuttle kids or engage with them after the brief period of attention. Sometime in August 2014 I slowly slipped into shock when he began saying "things will never improve, you won't ever change, we need to divorce" when I tried to discuss these issues with him.

He admitted he only tried the reboot to placate me. This may or may not be his way of off-loading the failure and shifting responsibility back on me.

Shock

Oy - this is no fun. Shock has included some very deep resentment. I despise him for the crap he's put this family through. I felt foolish and trapped by my own trust of him.

I can't believe my own gullibility! Really. Can I trust myself? Shock has been very, very hard. I really became concerned and decided I was not going to withdraw back into that deep depression again. I saw my doctor, got a prescription for anti-depressants and began seeing a therapist. I think those two things have made the shock stage at least bearable.

The trauma of all this seems concentrated in the shock stage. While anyone might think "you should be over this by now - you found out over a year ago" that isn't really how the recovery process works. During the shock phase I had these moments of emotional tsunamis that would occur unannounced - probably from the undersea fissures of the past that opened up, swallowing in great gulps of trust and security.

Grief/Ambivalence

Shock has also ushered in a certain numbness and the grief/abivilance stage. I don't care anymore if he's PMO'ing or for how long or when. I don't check on him. I don't ask and I don't really care. I don't like being hurt with this crap. I avoid the painful, like sleeping in the same bed or having conversations because I don't see the point. The relationship I thought we had is over, yet I grieve for a marriage where I wasn't really happy. It makes no sense to me, but there it is.

We still work together and live in the same house, but we are not interacting aside from functional levels. No affectionate names, no touching, no eye contact, no nothing - just the way he wants to live and just the way I need it to be right now as I disconnect from him and the codependency.

He refuses to acknowledge PMO as an issue and maintains that I am the one with the problem - obviously because I'm in therapy and on medication. He will not attend couples therapy, but has decided he will attend a therapy session this month - for my benefit. He's said he doesn't like the disconnection from my end, but I really can't bring myself to pretend anymore.

I really hope he doesn't stage an eleventh hour stand of "let's stay together" because I don't think I can do that.

Repair

The repair stage is when the SO is supposed to be fully invested in self-care. I really want to be here, but I'm only just beginning. I am very proud of myself for seeing my doctor and engaging a therapist and finding a lawyer (even when husband says we can do this equitably by ourselves, pshjeese!) and planning my exit. I've had some job interviews. I'm planning where I want to live, what will feed my soul, support my healing and provide the best opportunities for my kids and allow for us to be and become the loving people we are meant to be.

I feel the resentment from the shock stage beginning to change into resilience.

I'm not in the repair stage yet, but after shock I'm ready for anything better. I think I need to fully disconnect and detach from his daily influence to spark that change.

Growth

The whole process may be a growth experience, but I'm not really sure what this means as a stage of recovery yet.

I don't think the stages are meant to be static compartments of being. I think of each stage like sitting on a particular couch cushion (or two) rather than trapped in a vaccum as a bell jar exemplar. I find myself vacillating between Shock and Grief/Ambivalence and maybe Repair as I feel the need for self-care more strongly.

I'm adding a counter because while I'm not exactly rebooting - Recovery is Recovery and it takes some time. Whew - I think I learned something about myself with this post.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: STR on November 30, 2014, 10:44:44 AM
I really hope he doesn't stage an eleventh hour stand of "let's stay together" because I don't think I can do that.

This seems like the kind of thing he would do, based on what you've said about him. If he makes a last-second plea to stay together that you reject, then he can blame you for the divorce.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on November 30, 2014, 10:56:29 AM
I really hope he doesn't stage an eleventh hour stand of "let's stay together" because I don't think I can do that.

This seems like the kind of thing he would do, based on what you've said about him. If he makes a last-second plea to stay together that you reject, then he can blame you for the divorce.

meh. He's going to do what he does. I have to move forward. I just don't want a lot of obstacles.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: savingmysoul on December 02, 2014, 11:56:50 AM
Praying for your continued strength.

Stay strong SORP -  recovery is recovery, unique to each of us, I guess, and critical as we all seek to redefine and rebuild who and what we are.

Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on December 04, 2014, 07:40:51 AM
My ambivalence is blossoming! Hooray! or is it still Meh? Anyway, I'm really not invested in his issues so much right now. I am very invested in what the rest of my life will look like.

I want to be happy, connected, experience belonging and some sense of myself again. I am quickly making this a reality. Probably more quickly than he expected. I think I was holding myself back, worrying about what he would do and custody of the kids. Now I'm not and I like running at full gallop.

I am pointing out to him that my success (and departure) will allow him the carefree bachelor life he's yearned for, free from my controlling grasp and manipulative womanly emotions. Lie on the couch, drinking all weekend! Hire that hot secretary - and an accountant, media person and IT tech because she can't do it all! Let your eyes see without guilt! Life is short and that is living, my good sir. lol- I crack myself up.

So he's starting to not feel so warm and happy about dumping the old lady. He tried to kiss me goodbye yesterday morning, before leaving for work. I felt like I was correcting a puppy. "No, no we don't do that anymore." I stopped this practice when he said he wanted a divorce. He may believe this is some kind of plot or emotional game of chicken. He would be mistaken. I have a final interview next week, and I'm looking at real estate, getting my financing lined up.

The kids are going to love the cozy home and happier parents.

Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on December 04, 2014, 07:58:28 AM
My ambivalence is blossoming! Hooray! or is it still Meh? Anyway, I'm really not invested in his issues so much right now. I am very invested in what the rest of my life will look like.

I want to be happy, connected, experience belonging and some sense of myself again. I am quickly making this a reality. Probably more quickly than he expected. I think I was holding myself back, worrying about what he would do and custody of the kids. Now I'm not and I like running at full gallop.

I am pointing out to him that my success (and departure) will allow him the carefree bachelor life he's yearned for, free from my controlling grasp and manipulative womanly emotions. Lie on the couch, drinking all weekend! Hire that hot secretary - and an accountant, media person and IT tech because she can't do it all! Let your eyes see without guilt! Life is short and that is living, my good sir. lol- I crack myself up.

So he's starting to not feel so warm and happy about dumping the old lady. He tried to kiss me goodbye yesterday morning, before leaving for work. I felt like I was correcting a puppy. "No, no we don't do that anymore." I stopped this practice when he said he wanted a divorce. He may believe this is some kind of plot or emotional game of chicken. He would be mistaken. I have a final interview next week, and I'm looking at real estate, getting my financing lined up.

The kids are going to love the cozy home and happier parents.
He'll try a last minute power play to keep it together.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on December 04, 2014, 10:33:15 AM
My ambivalence is blossoming! Hooray! or is it still Meh? Anyway, I'm really not invested in his issues so much right now. I am very invested in what the rest of my life will look like.

I want to be happy, connected, experience belonging and some sense of myself again. I am quickly making this a reality. Probably more quickly than he expected. I think I was holding myself back, worrying about what he would do and custody of the kids. Now I'm not and I like running at full gallop.

I am pointing out to him that my success (and departure) will allow him the carefree bachelor life he's yearned for, free from my controlling grasp and manipulative womanly emotions. Lie on the couch, drinking all weekend! Hire that hot secretary - and an accountant, media person and IT tech because she can't do it all! Let your eyes see without guilt! Life is short and that is living, my good sir. lol- I crack myself up.

So he's starting to not feel so warm and happy about dumping the old lady. He tried to kiss me goodbye yesterday morning, before leaving for work. I felt like I was correcting a puppy. "No, no we don't do that anymore." I stopped this practice when he said he wanted a divorce. He may believe this is some kind of plot or emotional game of chicken. He would be mistaken. I have a final interview next week, and I'm looking at real estate, getting my financing lined up.

The kids are going to love the cozy home and happier parents.
He'll try a last minute power play to keep it together.

I don't think so. I had the best therapy session ever this week.

This morning he wanted me to do some manual piddly thing here at work - playing boss man. It's only the two of us in the office and he's playing King / serf. He knows I have a job interview next week and has already started trying to throw rocks in that - because it conflicted with HIS schedule. I kinda just looked at him for a minute. I'm so proud for not even rolling my eyes.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on December 04, 2014, 11:17:42 AM
My ambivalence is blossoming! Hooray! or is it still Meh? Anyway, I'm really not invested in his issues so much right now. I am very invested in what the rest of my life will look like.

I want to be happy, connected, experience belonging and some sense of myself again. I am quickly making this a reality. Probably more quickly than he expected. I think I was holding myself back, worrying about what he would do and custody of the kids. Now I'm not and I like running at full gallop.

I am pointing out to him that my success (and departure) will allow him the carefree bachelor life he's yearned for, free from my controlling grasp and manipulative womanly emotions. Lie on the couch, drinking all weekend! Hire that hot secretary - and an accountant, media person and IT tech because she can't do it all! Let your eyes see without guilt! Life is short and that is living, my good sir. lol- I crack myself up.

So he's starting to not feel so warm and happy about dumping the old lady. He tried to kiss me goodbye yesterday morning, before leaving for work. I felt like I was correcting a puppy. "No, no we don't do that anymore." I stopped this practice when he said he wanted a divorce. He may believe this is some kind of plot or emotional game of chicken. He would be mistaken. I have a final interview next week, and I'm looking at real estate, getting my financing lined up.

The kids are going to love the cozy home and happier parents.
He'll try a last minute power play to keep it together.

I don't think so. I had the best therapy session ever this week.

This morning he wanted me to do some manual piddly thing here at work - playing boss man. It's only the two of us in the office and he's playing King / serf. He knows I have a job interview next week and has already started trying to throw rocks in that - because it conflicted with HIS schedule. I kinda just looked at him for a minute. I'm so proud for not even rolling my eyes.
I just find it unbelievable that someone could be so selfish and short-sighted as to watch his family come apart before his very eyes and not realize that he needs to make changes in his life. I wonder if he's ever given any thought to the fact that life is going to get lonely when all of this comes down. He may think about all of the freedom he'll gain, but that won't be emotionally fulfilling to him in the long run.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on December 05, 2014, 11:00:13 AM
No More Excuses. That was my breakthrough this week.

I have defended being less, not enough, dismissed myself and disowned my own heart. I've blamed my kids for my inability to stop this absurdity, empowering him with the "what ifs" of custody when I never had and never will have control over what he does or doesn't do. I feared instead of loved. The truth is I own my own heart. I will always be a mother to my children.  I can't let them watch me deteriorate or think that this is the way married life is supposed to be. I want more for them and myself.

Porn has taken a toll, but it hasn't won. I'll heal. Porn doesn't pick the nursing home (as I have said more than once), it doesn't prepare warm meals, help with homework, work for free in his office or wrap Christmas gifts. Porn does numb him from fully enjoying those things or understanding the value of a good woman. It doesn't enrich a life and provide comfort in the hard times.

It is all very sad, but I can't be pulled down into that tar pit too. I won't be. No more excuses.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: PMOVictory on December 05, 2014, 03:32:33 PM
Hi SORP

It's been a while since I have read your posts.
It took my quote some time to catch up and get up to speed at what is going on in your life.

I am bombarded by mixed feelings.
To start of I'm saddened by the fact that you have put in so, so much into repairing this relationship. And at the end of the day you don't really have anything to show for it.
Then I'm glad that you are working through it all and that you are coping with what is coming your way and that you are preparing yourself, physically and emotionally to deal with it.

Then I wish I could walk up to your SO and just shake him up to catch a wake up!!! DAMN! Can any one be so arrogant, insensitive and blind! This guy had a good thing going and he did not realise it. The grip of PMO surely messed him up big time. He sure will get what he deserves, and by the looks if it it will not be moonlight and roses.

I'll play for you and the kids, it sure must be hard on them. May it go well with the interview. May your new hearts desires be fulfilled!

Stay strong and receive the Blessings!
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on December 07, 2014, 12:12:10 AM
I made it over a giant hurdle this week in therapy. I've let go completely worrying what he will do. I just don't care. I just really want to build a happy life for me and the kids. He should be working on the same, but he's not.

I was able to speak to my husband about the settlement of marital assets without the emotional turmoil. I could listen to him without feeling resentment. I could also address (to his dismay) the sneaky sh*t he's trying to pull financially and calmly explain the third party documentation in the audit trail I've made. Oh crap, the b*tch is back! He seemed surprised, also Judges hate that stuff.

Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on December 07, 2014, 11:23:17 AM
I made it over a giant hurdle this week in therapy. I've let go completely worrying what he will do. I just don't care. I just really want to build a happy life for me and the kids. He should be working on the same, but he's not.

I was able to speak to my husband about the settlement of marital assets without the emotional turmoil. I could listen to him without feeling resentment. I could also address (to his dismay) the sneaky sh*t he's trying to pull financially and calmly explain the third party documentation in the audit trail I've made. Oh crap, the b*tch is back! He seemed surprised, also Judges hate that stuff.

It's a shame that it has to end this way, but his reluctance to face the future speaks volumes about his character, or more correctly, the degree to which his character has been damaged.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Gracie on December 07, 2014, 11:59:22 AM
I remember when my husband and I first started down this path.  I looked at him and said, "I don't know if I can make it past this."   We talked recently about how ugly he was in the beginning.  He said as he looks back he was reflecting his hatred for what he had done and his feelings for himself outwardly on to me.  Then, due to my childhood stuff, I became very depressed.  I am lucky because he has worked hard to make me feel valued and loved again. 

Looking at some of the men here, I know I am fortunate to have him.  He gets it.  He gets the harm he has done.  He takes responsibility.  He understands no more secrets.  He understands that secrets harm a relationship and enables people to resume or continue whatever the secret hides from the other.  We feel the love for each other.

As the wife, I have become much more vocal about what it takes for me to feel secure.  It is hard some days to know there was time that he turned away from me.  But when I feel that way, we talk.  His goal is to make me the center of his life.  And in turn, he is the center of my life.

The purpose of this post is to say, in reading the paths of other SO partners, I am one of the lucky ones.  SORP and I have been on both this site and YBR.  There are times we have described what we have went through and what we have learned and what we have observed.  Sometimes the men are downright angry with our comments.  I have been told in huge colored letters to never post on one man's journal again.  (It was about him only wanting a "10" and feeling entitled to that.  And me saying we women are so much more than our appearance.)  But, then there are men that appreciate or learn from what we say.  It is tough for women to remain here on the boards and comment.  But my goal is they understand there are two in the equation not just one.

I am sorry to see another marriage succumb to porn.  When statistics say porn is a factor in at least 50% of divorces, there is a problem.  Hopefully the message will get out that porn is not entertainment, it is damaging.

SORP  you are one of the strong ones.  You have done everything you can.  You will do well.  And therapy indeed will help you stay balanced.  Sending love and caring your way!
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lte on December 07, 2014, 01:02:52 PM
I remember when my husband and I first started down this path.  I looked at him and said, "I don't know if I can make it past this."   We talked recently about how ugly he was in the beginning.  He said as he looks back he was reflecting his hatred for what he had done and his feelings for himself outwardly on to me.  Then, due to my childhood stuff, I became very depressed.  I am lucky because he has worked hard to make me feel valued and loved again. 

Looking at some of the men here, I know I am fortunate to have him.  He gets it.  He gets the harm he has done.  He takes responsibility.  He understands no more secrets.  He understands that secrets harm a relationship and enables people to resume or continue whatever the secret hides from the other.  We feel the love for each other.

As the wife, I have become much more vocal about what it takes for me to feel secure.  It is hard some days to know there was time that he turned away from me.  But when I feel that way, we talk.  His goal is to make me the center of his life.  And in turn, he is the center of my life.

The purpose of this post is to say, in reading the paths of other SO partners, I am one of the lucky ones.  SORP and I have been on both this site and YBR.  There are times we have described what we have went through and what we have learned and what we have observed.  Sometimes the men are downright angry with our comments.  I have been told in huge colored letters to never post on one man's journal again.  (It was about him only wanting a "10" and feeling entitled to that.  And me saying we women are so much more than our appearance.)  But, then there are men that appreciate or learn from what we say.  It is tough for women to remain here on the boards and comment.  But my goal is they understand there are two in the equation not just one.

I am sorry to see another marriage succumb to porn.  When statistics say porn is a factor in at least 50% of divorces, there is a problem.  Hopefully the message will get out that porn is not entertainment, it is damaging.

SORP  you are one of the strong ones.  You have done everything you can.  You will do well.  And therapy indeed will help you stay balanced.  Sending love and caring your way!

It truly causes me grief to know that there are people so blinded by this that they would insist you not post on their thread because You didn't agree that they deserved a "10". It just proves that a lot of guys have yet to comprehend this problem completely.

Just for a moment, think about the movie "10" and where the story went. It starts as Dudley Moore's character celebrates his 43rd birthday and walks straight into a mid life crisis. He had been watching a swinging single neighbor via a telescope and was jealous of all the young, firm-bodied women that partied with his neighbor. He loses satisfaction with Julie Andrews, his partner in an LTR, and obsessively follows the gorgeous Bo Derek on her honeymoon. He subsequently saves the life of Bo's new husband and, while the husband is in the hospital recovering from a severe sunburn, Bo invites Dudley to her bed. Against all odds, he has the opportunity to have sex with the girl of his obsession and is about to do that very thing when her husband calls from the hospital. While the free-loving young Bo is stil willing to have sex with Dudley Moore, his conscience is alerted and he can't go through with adulterating Bo's marriage. In the last scene, Dudley is back in the Hollywood Hills and realizes how much he appreciates having Julie Andrews in his life.

While the movie was marketed as a tale of libertine sexual escapade, in essence it was a morality tale wherein the hero learned the value of following his conscience and not giving In to his lower nature. I'm not recommending the movie, theres nudity and plenty of triggers throughout, but the plot points up the futility of pursuing the perfect "10". It's a pipe dream guys.

My journey through all of this has increased my spirituality considerably. Please don't interpret the word spirituality as equating to religiosity because they are not synonyms. My dearest hope is that I can find a partner for the remainder of my life, and the most important requirement in my mind is finding someone that shares my spiritual outlook. It would be nice if that person was attractive, but anyone that accepts me will have to make allowances for physical imperections and it would be hypocritical for me to refuse to do likewise.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: PMOVictory on December 07, 2014, 06:27:20 PM
Well said ITE

I can not agree more with you!

To anybody out there still struggling with PMO and not willing to give it you don't know what you miss, and how you are destroying your life and that of others!
To those battling to give it up!

Stay strong and receive the Blessings!
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Deuce26 on December 08, 2014, 06:55:37 PM

I think when we are gentle with ourselves, we listen to our bodies with more respect. For many, not listening has brought all kinds of issues. For me it has been acid reflux and high blood pressure because I took on stress I didn't need to take on.


I like this part.
I tell myself to be nicer to myself. We are often the last person we are nice to, no matter the circumstance. I think if we all cut ourselves some slack, that will give us the freedom to be nicer to ourselves and ultimately others.
We can be nicer to ourselves as well when others aren't nice to us. It's out of our control anyway.
I've enjoyed catching up with your blog, SORP. You and LTE have given me some new things to think about.
I have fallen off the wagon a bit as of late, but am feeling stronger these past few days.
I'm feeling closer to being me in a long time.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on December 11, 2014, 08:05:40 AM
Had an interview close to my support tribe. It would mean a decent job ($$$, benefits), financial security after the divorce and a new life for me, a chance for my soon-to-be Ex husband to bottom out, pursue his blonde ambitions and/or heal without me as an excuse. I'm trying to keep my mind off the interview results, stay positive and open and accepting if I don't get it. I think I have a good chance. I'm over-qualified if anything, but then I question if that is just hackney hubris on my part. I need to just stop it. What happens is out of my control and what needs to happen will happen! Ahggh!

Okay. On to other things and not my desire to control others, my lack of confidence and general anxiety.

Thanks for all the comments, Gracie, Lte and Deuce26. You guys are very kind to me. Also, you're  the bombs.

Haven't cried for several days now. I think this is improvement or at least acceptance.

Prior to leaving for my interview, soon-to-be Ex tossed a bunch of barriers, time constraints and tasks for me to do at the office and home. "That schedule doesn't work for me." I just kinda laughed. On my way home, he was curious as to how the interview went. I didn't tell him details, just that I would find out something later. I think it is cruel to lead him on with intimacies like my feelings on an interview. I also still feel like he will sabotage the good things I feel about myself again. I must protect what is mine by right.

I don't think he understands that I am serious about leaving. This is no ploy or threat or manipulative shenanigan. Whether I get this job or not - I am leaving. I've given this marriage my best shot and I don't think I could do more or do it better. I'm not perfect and I leave with a great deal more knowledge about myself and my limitations.

I think I'm healing. I'm contemplating the landscape for my new and happier life, not worrying/internalizing over his feelings so much. I think this is good.

JUST HIT 500 DAYS RECOVERY! Yeah, I'm celebrating tonight. I haven't given in to that blackness again, let myself be pulled down into the murky waters where the best of me is swallowed up and lost.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: PMOVictory on December 13, 2014, 05:00:13 AM
SORP

Like I have said before. I'm sad for you that things between you and your husband did not work out, and that his addiction is controlling him to the extend that he is not willing to see, or not even capable to see what he is doing and by that losing the most important "thing" in his life. The "thing" I'm referring to actually is more than one thing. 1. You as an understanding partner, desiring him to change, having the marriage you deserve. 2. The understanding, supportive wife that desires nothing more than a happy normal marriage that you deserve. 3. The wife, mother for his/your children. 4. His children. 5. The respect he should naturally have from his children. 6. The business partner, secretary, etc. that you were for him. In short I think the "thing" that he will be losing is a happy balanced normal life.
His addiction to porn has robbed him from being objective and seeing life for what it really should and could be. As a whole, he will be the one that is loosing out big time, while he thinks he is the one that is gaining.
No one else, that will come after you, will tolerate what you have tolerated. None will have the love and compassion that you showed towards him, not even to mention the commitment you had, especially over the last 500 days!
At the end of the day he will be all alone, miserable and lonely. Looking at pixels on a screen, thinking this will give him the company and life that he deserves, with a limp dick in his hand, all miserable... (I hope that I'm not to harsh by saying this. But this is reality.)
I believe that if he can see this picture in his mind, and experience the pain that this might bring him, he might re-consider his actions and catch a wake up. It's all about pain and pleasure. If the pain is more than the pleasure he might change for the better. But he is deceived and the thing about deception is that the deceived does not realise that they are deceived.

This is not only true for your husband, but to all and this is a law of nature...

On the other hand, I want to salute you!
You are strong, you have worked through a lot, and you have come out stronger and wiser than what you have ever been.

I'm convinced that you will find the perfect job for you! If not the one you have went for the interview, another. You are advancing in leaps and bounds. You are doing great and this is what's important now. You now need to focus on yourself... and this is what you are doing already!

Stay strong and receive the Blessings!
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on December 13, 2014, 10:32:17 AM
You know PMO Victory, sometimes we are the blessing and need to be ready to accept that.

I really don't wish him ill will. I hope he does get it together, but it won't be with me. He may have decided a lot about our relationship, but I've made some decisions here.

I don't think I am without blame, but I feel like I've paid that debt.
Quote
I believe that if he can see this picture in his mind, and experience the pain that this might bring him, he might re-consider his actions and catch a wake up.

It won't happen. He's a covert narcissist. It was mild/hidden for a long time, but now it is full blown. He only experiences pain when it is directed to the false self he's created. He has no empathy for others, or his inner self. He has a daily/weekly/annual routine for himself that comforts him, a script for his life that says only his role in professional life is what matters - not family. True narcissists, those that despise themselves so much they create a false self for the rest of the world, do not recover easily, if at all.

My real life matters to me and that is what I need to focus on. I will get a job. I will be a free elf again. I will have a cozy home. I will find real love. I am good and decent and I don't have to be unhappy to love my kids. Bad, unpleasant things will happen and I will get through them. No man will ever define me the way he did. Ever.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: SO Reboot Partner on December 14, 2014, 09:26:52 AM
Great morning. I'm up and at it.

I've got a ton of self care to accomplish today. Before I really let go of the codependency and unhealthy feelings for myself, I would classify several of these to do items as chores. I approached cleaning my home as work, perhaps even in a demeaning way. Doing good things for yourself, like making a home clean and cozy is not a chore. It isn't done for others. It is effort one puts into one's environment because a clean, healthy sanctuary matters. Living in a dump does not reflect self respect or self love (or love and respect for others in the home for that matter).

In the codependent relationship, the self love that comes from providing one's self with a neat nest is affected. I did not care for my home, and subsequently myself, as I knew I should have. I did a good enough most of the time. A clean home was seen as a burden, a viewpoint reinforced with small gestures of neglect and disrespect from my partner. The stereotypical "put the seat up and then down" (because sprinkles and splashes just create more to clean, leaving them is unhygienic and yucky) are so annoying because a clean home is a form of self care and self respect. These little acts of tidy aggression can also multiply and get out of control, squashing the self esteem further, which leads to more filth.

When we see someone that hoards, it is evident something is wrong with the person. When we see a filthy home, one that goes beyond daily kid-dirt and sticky-just-spilled-kool-aid-on-the-kitchen-floor, it is a signpost that something is off imho. The time, priority or gumption is just not there for self care.

Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: enablerblue on December 14, 2014, 01:31:55 PM
Loved this. Oddly enough, this is something I'm also working on, but in a different way.

When I am stressed or anxious I compulsively clean. I feel that the spaces in my home are one of the very few things I have control of.
It has been unhealthy. Trying to morph that compulsion into an act of self care and respect for others in the home is a fantastic way to approach it.

Respect for others. Something all of our homes seem to be craving.


Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: horpio on December 15, 2014, 08:51:44 AM
Hi Sister

I've only read your first page. I have much catch up to do. All I want to say is 'hats off to you' and thank you for being kind and supportive to me and many other guys on this forum. 
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Deuce26 on December 16, 2014, 11:03:38 AM
Doing good things for yourself, like making a home clean and cozy is not a chore. It isn't done for others. It is effort one puts into one's environment because a clean, healthy sanctuary matters. Living in a dump does not reflect self respect or self love (or love and respect for others in the home for that matter).


Self love is often lost in relationships because it is seen as an extension of giving of oneself without it being reciprocated. This of course is a relative notion and it requires lack of perspective as well.
We all contribute at different levels to our relationships, whether they be to our spouses, children, extended family, friends and even strangers. The thing is, our perspective on our contribution will always differ to what others may think of our contribution. How we value what we contribute is always compared. So, you are right SO in thinking it's self love when we give of ourselves in providing a clean home because we respect that about ourselves and value ourselves enough to give that gift. It isn't a chore. We contribute and provide, and it should not be done to expect a fair reciprocity. However, something that you give should have others appreciate it through various actions.
We create our circumstances and make choices. We can also just choose to be nice to ourselves and that will reflect back into the world we create.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: savingmysoul on December 16, 2014, 12:15:23 PM
Well said Deuce -

Thought and prayers for you SORP.

Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: enablerblue on December 16, 2014, 01:19:05 PM
Any news on the job yet?

I'm rooting for you. You've done an incredible thing by taking YOUR life into YOUR hands. You are not living for him and his addiction anymore. This is all about you.

From experience, I can say that living in separate homes removed ALL anxiety I had with ex. I have never been better.
I hope this job comes through for you and you can take your next steps soon.

It is the most liberating feeling, dropping the PA.

Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: lyon03 on December 17, 2014, 12:28:37 PM
Egads this is a moving, tragic, thrilling, pathetic, hopeful, and gut-wrenching rollercoaster of a thread. On behalf of every PMO *sshole husband out there, please accept my sincere apologies. You deserved (and will no doubt find) better. You went above and beyond the call of marital duty. RUN....RUN to that new life! I wish you every success with your new life, home, and existence. Once freed of your PMO-addict-anchor, it should be smoother sailing. There should be a statue somewhere for the caring SOs like you...or at least a really killer obelisk. Bless you.   
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Gracie on December 24, 2014, 06:54:25 AM
SORP,  I notice that I cannot message you here anymore.  If you are reading these posts still, please know that I am thinking about you and your life.  I have missed your comments.  There are not many women here commenting anymore.  I miss your advice and your story and your spot on humor! 

Hope you are doing Okay!
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: So Reboot Partner on August 18, 2015, 11:31:02 PM
Well I haven't journaled for what? 8 1/2 months. I have amazing things to report.

I'm no longer obsessed with being his salvation or no pmo cop or "making it work" or walking on eggshells or getting angry when he relapses again.

I really let go of all that codependency and found out he really doesn't like that. He liked me miserable and struggling with an addiction he has no intention of giving up.

Yesterday we had mediation for our divorce. He looked worn and tired. He was combative and negative. He had no kind words. I felt happy. I am another day closer to being free.

I was an addict just like him. It wasn't to porn or alcohol or sex or drugs - I was addicted to him and his addiction. That's over now.

The kids are happier. I am joyful. Life is good.

I hope he can break free from pmo, alcohol and the smoking. I can't fix it. I can't hold up relationships for him. He left the house over 5 months ago and has only seen his son three times and his daughter once. I'm sure he's looked at porn more than that.

It's sad, but not for the kids and I.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: J on August 20, 2015, 03:31:13 AM
Well I haven't journaled for what? 8 1/2 months. I have amazing things to report.

I'm no longer obsessed with being his salvation or no pmo cop or "making it work" or walking on eggshells or getting angry when he relapses again.

I really let go of all that codependency and found out he really doesn't like that. He liked me miserable and struggling with an addiction he has no intention of giving up.

Yesterday we had mediation for our divorce. He looked worn and tired. He was combative and negative. He had no kind words. I felt happy. I am another day closer to being free.

I was an addict just like him. It wasn't to porn or alcohol or sex or drugs - I was addicted to him and his addiction. That's over now.

The kids are happier. I am joyful. Life is good.

I hope he can break free from pmo, alcohol and the smoking. I can't fix it. I can't hold up relationships for him. He left the house over 5 months ago and has only seen his son three times and his daughter once. I'm sure he's looked at porn more than that.

It's sad, but not for the kids and I.

It's a sad reality but if I could kick the habit as many others have here then so can your husband. If he hasn't by now made progress it's probably because he hasn't wanted it enough. Sometimes we get too comfortable when we have the support that we forget there are consequences. I applaud you for taking this step for your own health as well as your children. I speak as a person who experienced the other spectrum with an alcoholic father who just doesn't want to change. You have done something amazing by putting an end to your co-dependency. BRAVO!
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: So Reboot Partner on August 20, 2015, 03:43:45 PM
Well I haven't journaled for what? 8 1/2 months. I have amazing things to report.

I'm no longer obsessed with being his salvation or no pmo cop or "making it work" or walking on eggshells or getting angry when he relapses again.

I really let go of all that codependency and found out he really doesn't like that. He liked me miserable and struggling with an addiction he has no intention of giving up.

Yesterday we had mediation for our divorce. He looked worn and tired. He was combative and negative. He had no kind words. I felt happy. I am another day closer to being free.

I was an addict just like him. It wasn't to porn or alcohol or sex or drugs - I was addicted to him and his addiction. That's over now.

The kids are happier. I am joyful. Life is good.

I hope he can break free from pmo, alcohol and the smoking. I can't fix it. I can't hold up relationships for him. He left the house over 5 months ago and has only seen his son three times and his daughter once. I'm sure he's looked at porn more than that.

It's sad, but not for the kids and I.

It's a sad reality but if I could kick the habit as many others have here then so can your husband. If he hasn't by now made progress it's probably because he hasn't wanted it enough. Sometimes we get too comfortable when we have the support that we forget there are consequences. I applaud you for taking this step for your own health as well as your children. I speak as a person who experienced the other spectrum with an alcoholic father who just doesn't want to change. You have done something amazing by putting an end to your co-dependency. BRAVO!

Unwinding from dependency or co-dependency is a tough road. Both sides are trying to cling to something that is toxic and unhealthy, a glue of perpetual misery in my experience. Better choices do lead to better consequences and the lie of addiction - that those consequences are somehow worth it - is revealed for what it is - a big fat lie.

I really struggled with my dependency on a man that had no real love for me. The addiction would always be a priority over me, the family - everything. It took a lot of work to make it away from that to a free zone. I still struggle - codependency is still a form of addiction and I make the choice everyday to be free.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Gracie on September 05, 2015, 07:42:31 AM
Dear SORP  I am sorry I did not see this earlier.  Breaking free of all of this is a good thing.  It is important for your children to have a porn free life at home.  You my dear are a rock star!!!!
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Bibbity on December 15, 2015, 01:39:54 PM
Well I haven't journaled for what? 8 1/2 months. I have amazing things to report.

I'm no longer obsessed with being his salvation or no pmo cop or "making it work" or walking on eggshells or getting angry when he relapses again.

I really let go of all that codependency and found out he really doesn't like that. He liked me miserable and struggling with an addiction he has no intention of giving up.

Yesterday we had mediation for our divorce. He looked worn and tired. He was combative and negative. He had no kind words. I felt happy. I am another day closer to being free.

I was an addict just like him. It wasn't to porn or alcohol or sex or drugs - I was addicted to him and his addiction. That's over now.

The kids are happier. I am joyful. Life is good.

I hope he can break free from pmo, alcohol and the smoking. I can't fix it. I can't hold up relationships for him. He left the house over 5 months ago and has only seen his son three times and his daughter once. I'm sure he's looked at porn more than that.

It's sad, but not for the kids and I.

It's a sad reality but if I could kick the habit as many others have here then so can your husband. If he hasn't by now made progress it's probably because he hasn't wanted it enough. Sometimes we get too comfortable when we have the support that we forget there are consequences. I applaud you for taking this step for your own health as well as your children. I speak as a person who experienced the other spectrum with an alcoholic father who just doesn't want to change. You have done something amazing by putting an end to your co-dependency. BRAVO!

Unwinding from dependency or co-dependency is a tough road. Both sides are trying to cling to something that is toxic and unhealthy, a glue of perpetual misery in my experience. Better choices do lead to better consequences and the lie of addiction - that those consequences are somehow worth it - is revealed for what it is - a big fat lie.

I really struggled with my dependency on a man that had no real love for me. The addiction would always be a priority over me, the family - everything. It took a lot of work to make it away from that to a free zone. I still struggle - codependency is still a form of addiction and I make the choice everyday to be free.

It looks like you saved the only life you could save, your own.  Best of luck and I hope you are able to find REAL joy and happiness now that you have broken the bonds of codependancy.
Title: Re: Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal
Post by: Objectified1 on July 13, 2016, 07:03:34 PM
I just read most of your journal for the first time. I think you are a very wise and courageous women. God bless you and I hope you all the happiness you deserve. I feel such sadness for your husband because he is losing such a gem. I found your journal Inspiring. A lot of what you said resognated with me.