rogerfaperer
Member
Hello everyone,
I am new to this world and would REALLY appreciate your advice and input. I?ve tried to keep this post as concise as possible. I realize this is lengthy, but I think as a reader you will appreciate the clarity and full detailed info.
To provide a bit of background, I am a 23 year old who has been masturbating since about age 13, and on more or less a 1x/day basis since beginning university at age 18. I would most usually get off to hot facebook photos, and occasionally to video porn, with no real need for escalation of ?hardcore-ness? for arousal.
I thought nothing of my habit until January, when I got into bed with a girl for the first time. (I had been shy to approach girls for various reasons, though perhaps the knowing in the back of my mind that I could get myself off with my hand anytime subconsciously contributed to this reservedness.) We were making out and in foreplay for a good while, but at the point of wanting to insert and have sex I could not get adequately hard. I had been drinking (about 8 drinks ? shots/beers ? over 4 hours), so that could very likely have been the cause of this case of ?whisky dick?, but I was definitely only buzzed and still totally there mentally (i.e. was quite conscious of not being awkward in my first time), and not hammered. I don?t think it was anxiety-induced ED either as I was with a kind, welcoming girl and it wasn?t like a big buildup of anticipation to the moment of sex?rather, we kind of just naturally got to the stage of penetration but my penis then wouldn?t respond. (Aside: at what level of alcohol consumption does ED generally set in?)
Anyway, we shrugged off the ED in the moment, dismissing it as the booze, but the next day at home I reflected and thought perhaps my ?excessive masturbation? could have had a negative effect. I had always assumed I?d be raring to go when the opportunity for sex arose; I am young and very athletic and constantly looking at girls in a sexual light and have before gotten semi-hard and pre-cum just from grinding on girls in clubs. I came across ?Your Brain on Porn? online and have read much of the material, seeing many similarities with my ?symptoms?, many of which I thought nothing of or just as being done with puberty (someone in there 20s shouldn?t be expecting random, spontaneous raging erections like in the middle of 9th grade Spanish class .
From the YBOP site?s list, I had been experiencing to varying degrees:
o Difficulty reaching arousal and/or orgasm with a partner (***first time/alcohol could have been the culprit)
o Longer time, and if not visuals and least mental imagery needed to achieve erection
o Less full/hard/durable erections, I think (hadn?t been keeping data on this lol
o No ?morning woods?
o Would quickly have a lot of pre-cum (is this ?seminal leakage??)
o Ejaculating when you are only partly erect, or getting fully-stiff only as I climax
o In the a) Masturbate to fav porn/images vs b) No porn or fantasy, only sensation test, I could still get an erection with b), so it wasn?t like my penis was not responding, but it definitely took more time/work to achieve and wasn?t quite as strong or durable
I was in to see my doctor regarding something else a few days later, and brought up my ED from that night. I asked if it was possible that my 1x/day masturbating could make my penis tired or create any sort of chemical imbalance, spitting out something embarrassedly about ?dopamine?. The doc said definitively that my masturbation is healthy, that much of the internet spouts nonsense to try to sell you cures and supplements, and that my alcohol intake that night could definitely have been the culprit. Somewhat comforted, I remained partly unconvinced by her abrupt dismissal of masturbation-induced ED (I hadn?t mentioned PIED specifically). I had recalled occasions where, for whatever reason, I didn?t jerk off for 4 days-1 week and then when I got around to the deed again felt a fuller erection and blew huge loads. So I felt like there was definitely something to be said for letting your penis recharge (unscientific, I know.) Following up on this, the scientific logic on YBOP was so simple ? generally, through jerking off and looking at pics so much for an addictive quick dopamine high, I have desensitized myself to dopamine surges, and thus did not get as hard/aroused as I should under ?normal? levels of stimulation like real girls/sex. Right?
I have tried to start a ?no fap? journey at various points this year since that fateful night, but at first did not get too far. I would average 3-4 days/week where I masturbate (sometimes 1x/day, and an extreme of 5x/day on two occasions). I was conscious of it, though, and, to look at things positively, was ?weaning? myself off PMO to an extent.
Since Feb 23, I am 41 days strong into a no-fap/PMO streak, with an initial target of 90 days. I have basically been able to abstain from PMO fully, except for feeling compelled to ?test? (to check in on achieving an erection with sensation only or with a photo, and then stopping there?.only got to the stage of precum a few times and to what could maybe be considered borderline edging twice). I know this isn?t quite a full hard-mode, but it is pretty damn close and I feel holistically like I am still on the streak of abstention from that need of masturbation/a dopamine hit. The majority of these 41 days have been zero touch.
I am also trying to significantly reduce surfing facebook photos (even if not at all masturbating-related) as much as possible, as this has been such a standard way to kill time ? I think for most people in the world! ? but I think partially mirrors in a ?lite? manner the instant novelty/variety of porn.
I wanted to interpose before getting on to some of my current self-observations in no-fap that I saw my doctor again for a flu-shot and brought up again that I was still worried and had read some compelling material on PIED. She again said alcohol was the likely culprit and that the arousal problems could be psychological, NOT physiological. She didn?t really give any direct disproof of the overstimulation/ dopamine receptors PIED-hypothesis, though, so I remained unconvinced and asked to be referred to an urologist. (Why not, right; better to be too cautious! Great; I?ll get all my questions put to rest, I thought?) The urologist again suggested alcohol as a potential culprit, but when asked ?at what stage does booze lead to ED? only said it?s different for everyone ? some people 2, some 5, some 16 drinks. He asked how my erections are when masturbating. I replied that I thought maybe somewhat weaker in recent years, and seem to be stronger now in my ?reboot?/abstinence phase when I test. I asked ?how do I explain that??PIED seems to make sense?? He replied that ?it is psychological; it?s all in your mind. Some can MO 5x/day and be good in sex, keeping that muscle working; it?s mental.? He offered a small dose (5mg) of Cialis ?so that I have a confidence boost? next time. I guess by that logic he was proffering the tablets as a sort of placebo effect. I said that I ?didn?t think my problem was with blood flow as I?m super healthy? (and I don?t want to develop mental dependency on a tablet!). I thought to myself ?ok, maybe I could buy this in-your-mind notion and I feel more virile now just as part of this no-fap movement?, but, I said to the doc, ?I was drunk thus not anxious, and I definitely wanted to have sex.? I quickly described the idea of pixelated overstimulation desensitizing to the real thing and he was implicitly *dismissive* of PIED. Again, like my GP, he didn?t present any directly-refuting logic. I pressed on, saying ?if I have trouble getting up just to sensation vs to imagery is that a sign of something?...? He said that?s why we?ll order a blood test (for bioavailable testosterone and prolactin). I welcomed the test, as it?s good to ?cover your bases? to make sure all is well, but I didn?t quite follow his logic there either: If testosterone was low, it would affect ALL erections ? physically-stimulated or visually-stimulated ? wouldn?t it? Anyway, I?m betting I?ll show perfectly normal; I?m an otherwise-totally-healthy high-level athlete. It will be good to see, though, to know for sure. Then I know whether chemical/hormones have had a role in my total lack of aggressiveness/ pursuit of girls, or if it is some combination of natural shyness and secondary effects of PMO.
If I seem so persistent, I want to clarify that, of course, the last thing I want to do is self-infect/diagnose myself with this ED ailment and have myself anxiously believing it to be the case when maybe I?m totally okay and it was just the booze or an unlucky night. But both doctors I?ve seen hadn?t addressed my worry/suggestion of PIED head-on, or even seemed to be familiar with the condition. If they had said ?no, you don?t have PIED because it entails xxxx and you rather have xxxx?, that would be great. Even if they had said ?yes, you have severe PIED, but with xxxx treatment regiment it will improve?, that would be great too. Instead, the knowledge and advice they offered left me dissatisfied and unclear.
?Back to where I stand in my no-fap journey - My latest test on Day 40-41:
- I can look at a relatively softcore pic (e.g. facebook suggestive pic or bikini pic) and get myself up with a couple minutes of fantasy (no touch)
- I can get up immediately to a NSFW pic (no touch), with just a couple jerks reach 100% stiffness, and as long as I stay engrossed in/focused on the pic/video can keep up the erection without any touch
- I can close my eyes, fantasize and flex my Kegel muscles and get an essentially full erection within 5-10min, though it becomes soft as soon as I break the mental imagery
- ***I can get up decently quickly to sensation/touch only (no fantasy), but it doesn?t feel quite as throbblingly-stiff or as long-lasting as an erection with visual stimulation (need to keep jerking to keep it up)
I have seen generally some solid improvements (that I think are real, not just me no-fap-placebo imagining things):
- as I said, just by looking at a softcore pic I can fantasize a bit and get essentially fully hard...kind of feels like my mind and dick are more connected, if that makes sense
- I feel generally more virile/?alive? ? when I?m fully erect I can see my penis pulsing as I guess the blood pumps in sustaining it. I can?t remember having that sort of erection in a long time?and it seems to be correlated with abstention from PMO
- Another example ? messaging with a fallen-through attempted hookup ? when I got a text from her that said ?I wish I had seen this msg? the next day, I felt a tingling in my pants and was semi-hard and actually had a little precum lol
- Other than the above case, precum only starts to emerge when I?ve been fully stiff and put in a few strokes. Is this more normal?; it seems healthier than the 'seepage', for lack of a better term, from my M days.
- Overall, there is still some variability when I ?test?, but have definitely had some occasions of amazing stiffness/durability from minimal stimulation (either a photo with touch, or touch with no P/Pfantasy)
I?ve read the FAQ answers here to ?how do I know if my ED is related to my porn use? and ?how do you know when you?re rebooted?? Judging by a lot of Gabe?s check points I'm suspecting I had a mild case of PIED and now am well on my way, though perhaps not fully rebooted. For example:
http://legacy.rebootnation.org/index.php?topic=70.0
1: the quality of my erection to sensation-only (as described above) compared to the benchmark using visual stimulus is much better than a few weeks ago (e.g. Day 9 M for 5min to sensation-only ? had precum but didn?t get fully hard), though not quite on par. (Should they be literally indistinguishable? Or is it natural that with a pic/video you?ll be slightly more stiff/less fleeting, as it?s an added +1 arousal input?)
2: Yes.
3: Yes.
4: Somewhat.
5. No. (I have only a couple sporadic weak-to-decent morning wood, and no spontaneous erections that I can remember. MWs are only if you wake up during REM sleep, so perhaps I don?t; are they really a necessary sign for being rebooted?)
6. Yes, I think. I don?t know if I had ?leakage? before, but, as mentioned, when masturbating pre-cum seems to be more controlled.
7. N/A
8. Yes.
9. N/A
10. N/A
I know there is no single surefire sign/answer, but it seems like success with the ?sensation only? masturbation test is the clincher to know if you?re more-or-less healed for ED. Agreed? Because then, in the moment with a real woman, even if the dopamine neurons aren?t super-firing in arousal/imagination/anticipation/fantasy to get an erection, the physical act of arousal/rubbing alone is enough to achieve a strong erection that can do the job.
Anyway, thanks VERY much for taking the time to read this. In summary, I?m interested for any and all input and advice you might have, but specifically:
a) Do you think, based on my story, I was/am suffering from PIED/a PM addiction? If so, perhaps a mild case (I hope)??? ??
b) Both doctors have said that the amount of drinks to cause alcohol-induced ED varies by person, which I?m sure is true, but is also the ?textbook answer?. Does anyone have personal experience/guidelines with ?drinking and dicking??
c) How long should an erection last? (I am encouraged by my strength of erections when testing, but wondering about durability. E.g. if doing sensation only, once you stop rubbing how long should it stay engorged before dying down?)
d) What does natural libido, as opposed to an MO addiction, feel like? (I don?t know, since masturbating has been part of my life since even before the age where we begin to pursue girls sexually!) Is libido meant to feel like an overwhelming, instinctual, almost-animal urge ?to stick your dick in something?? I do feel more driven to get out and approach girls now, though I think shyness would still hold me back from being outgoing. Is this ?flatline? or ?weak libido?? Would a natural, strong libido trump all other influences, no shame, and have you thinking, e.g., while in a bar, priority 1 = sex?
e) Are there professional urologists who do subscribe to or at least have an awareness of the notion of PIED who can be contacted?
f) Am I ready? Or, as best you can tell, how far along in the recovery am I? I am petrified to get in another situation with a woman and not perform and embarrass myself! Though it will have to happen at some point, as that?s the only way to truly know if you?re healed or not. I want to have sex now (lol), but can wait a bit longer if it means far better odds of ?success?.
Thanks!!!
I am new to this world and would REALLY appreciate your advice and input. I?ve tried to keep this post as concise as possible. I realize this is lengthy, but I think as a reader you will appreciate the clarity and full detailed info.
To provide a bit of background, I am a 23 year old who has been masturbating since about age 13, and on more or less a 1x/day basis since beginning university at age 18. I would most usually get off to hot facebook photos, and occasionally to video porn, with no real need for escalation of ?hardcore-ness? for arousal.
I thought nothing of my habit until January, when I got into bed with a girl for the first time. (I had been shy to approach girls for various reasons, though perhaps the knowing in the back of my mind that I could get myself off with my hand anytime subconsciously contributed to this reservedness.) We were making out and in foreplay for a good while, but at the point of wanting to insert and have sex I could not get adequately hard. I had been drinking (about 8 drinks ? shots/beers ? over 4 hours), so that could very likely have been the cause of this case of ?whisky dick?, but I was definitely only buzzed and still totally there mentally (i.e. was quite conscious of not being awkward in my first time), and not hammered. I don?t think it was anxiety-induced ED either as I was with a kind, welcoming girl and it wasn?t like a big buildup of anticipation to the moment of sex?rather, we kind of just naturally got to the stage of penetration but my penis then wouldn?t respond. (Aside: at what level of alcohol consumption does ED generally set in?)
Anyway, we shrugged off the ED in the moment, dismissing it as the booze, but the next day at home I reflected and thought perhaps my ?excessive masturbation? could have had a negative effect. I had always assumed I?d be raring to go when the opportunity for sex arose; I am young and very athletic and constantly looking at girls in a sexual light and have before gotten semi-hard and pre-cum just from grinding on girls in clubs. I came across ?Your Brain on Porn? online and have read much of the material, seeing many similarities with my ?symptoms?, many of which I thought nothing of or just as being done with puberty (someone in there 20s shouldn?t be expecting random, spontaneous raging erections like in the middle of 9th grade Spanish class .
From the YBOP site?s list, I had been experiencing to varying degrees:
o Difficulty reaching arousal and/or orgasm with a partner (***first time/alcohol could have been the culprit)
o Longer time, and if not visuals and least mental imagery needed to achieve erection
o Less full/hard/durable erections, I think (hadn?t been keeping data on this lol
o No ?morning woods?
o Would quickly have a lot of pre-cum (is this ?seminal leakage??)
o Ejaculating when you are only partly erect, or getting fully-stiff only as I climax
o In the a) Masturbate to fav porn/images vs b) No porn or fantasy, only sensation test, I could still get an erection with b), so it wasn?t like my penis was not responding, but it definitely took more time/work to achieve and wasn?t quite as strong or durable
I was in to see my doctor regarding something else a few days later, and brought up my ED from that night. I asked if it was possible that my 1x/day masturbating could make my penis tired or create any sort of chemical imbalance, spitting out something embarrassedly about ?dopamine?. The doc said definitively that my masturbation is healthy, that much of the internet spouts nonsense to try to sell you cures and supplements, and that my alcohol intake that night could definitely have been the culprit. Somewhat comforted, I remained partly unconvinced by her abrupt dismissal of masturbation-induced ED (I hadn?t mentioned PIED specifically). I had recalled occasions where, for whatever reason, I didn?t jerk off for 4 days-1 week and then when I got around to the deed again felt a fuller erection and blew huge loads. So I felt like there was definitely something to be said for letting your penis recharge (unscientific, I know.) Following up on this, the scientific logic on YBOP was so simple ? generally, through jerking off and looking at pics so much for an addictive quick dopamine high, I have desensitized myself to dopamine surges, and thus did not get as hard/aroused as I should under ?normal? levels of stimulation like real girls/sex. Right?
I have tried to start a ?no fap? journey at various points this year since that fateful night, but at first did not get too far. I would average 3-4 days/week where I masturbate (sometimes 1x/day, and an extreme of 5x/day on two occasions). I was conscious of it, though, and, to look at things positively, was ?weaning? myself off PMO to an extent.
Since Feb 23, I am 41 days strong into a no-fap/PMO streak, with an initial target of 90 days. I have basically been able to abstain from PMO fully, except for feeling compelled to ?test? (to check in on achieving an erection with sensation only or with a photo, and then stopping there?.only got to the stage of precum a few times and to what could maybe be considered borderline edging twice). I know this isn?t quite a full hard-mode, but it is pretty damn close and I feel holistically like I am still on the streak of abstention from that need of masturbation/a dopamine hit. The majority of these 41 days have been zero touch.
I am also trying to significantly reduce surfing facebook photos (even if not at all masturbating-related) as much as possible, as this has been such a standard way to kill time ? I think for most people in the world! ? but I think partially mirrors in a ?lite? manner the instant novelty/variety of porn.
I wanted to interpose before getting on to some of my current self-observations in no-fap that I saw my doctor again for a flu-shot and brought up again that I was still worried and had read some compelling material on PIED. She again said alcohol was the likely culprit and that the arousal problems could be psychological, NOT physiological. She didn?t really give any direct disproof of the overstimulation/ dopamine receptors PIED-hypothesis, though, so I remained unconvinced and asked to be referred to an urologist. (Why not, right; better to be too cautious! Great; I?ll get all my questions put to rest, I thought?) The urologist again suggested alcohol as a potential culprit, but when asked ?at what stage does booze lead to ED? only said it?s different for everyone ? some people 2, some 5, some 16 drinks. He asked how my erections are when masturbating. I replied that I thought maybe somewhat weaker in recent years, and seem to be stronger now in my ?reboot?/abstinence phase when I test. I asked ?how do I explain that??PIED seems to make sense?? He replied that ?it is psychological; it?s all in your mind. Some can MO 5x/day and be good in sex, keeping that muscle working; it?s mental.? He offered a small dose (5mg) of Cialis ?so that I have a confidence boost? next time. I guess by that logic he was proffering the tablets as a sort of placebo effect. I said that I ?didn?t think my problem was with blood flow as I?m super healthy? (and I don?t want to develop mental dependency on a tablet!). I thought to myself ?ok, maybe I could buy this in-your-mind notion and I feel more virile now just as part of this no-fap movement?, but, I said to the doc, ?I was drunk thus not anxious, and I definitely wanted to have sex.? I quickly described the idea of pixelated overstimulation desensitizing to the real thing and he was implicitly *dismissive* of PIED. Again, like my GP, he didn?t present any directly-refuting logic. I pressed on, saying ?if I have trouble getting up just to sensation vs to imagery is that a sign of something?...? He said that?s why we?ll order a blood test (for bioavailable testosterone and prolactin). I welcomed the test, as it?s good to ?cover your bases? to make sure all is well, but I didn?t quite follow his logic there either: If testosterone was low, it would affect ALL erections ? physically-stimulated or visually-stimulated ? wouldn?t it? Anyway, I?m betting I?ll show perfectly normal; I?m an otherwise-totally-healthy high-level athlete. It will be good to see, though, to know for sure. Then I know whether chemical/hormones have had a role in my total lack of aggressiveness/ pursuit of girls, or if it is some combination of natural shyness and secondary effects of PMO.
If I seem so persistent, I want to clarify that, of course, the last thing I want to do is self-infect/diagnose myself with this ED ailment and have myself anxiously believing it to be the case when maybe I?m totally okay and it was just the booze or an unlucky night. But both doctors I?ve seen hadn?t addressed my worry/suggestion of PIED head-on, or even seemed to be familiar with the condition. If they had said ?no, you don?t have PIED because it entails xxxx and you rather have xxxx?, that would be great. Even if they had said ?yes, you have severe PIED, but with xxxx treatment regiment it will improve?, that would be great too. Instead, the knowledge and advice they offered left me dissatisfied and unclear.
?Back to where I stand in my no-fap journey - My latest test on Day 40-41:
- I can look at a relatively softcore pic (e.g. facebook suggestive pic or bikini pic) and get myself up with a couple minutes of fantasy (no touch)
- I can get up immediately to a NSFW pic (no touch), with just a couple jerks reach 100% stiffness, and as long as I stay engrossed in/focused on the pic/video can keep up the erection without any touch
- I can close my eyes, fantasize and flex my Kegel muscles and get an essentially full erection within 5-10min, though it becomes soft as soon as I break the mental imagery
- ***I can get up decently quickly to sensation/touch only (no fantasy), but it doesn?t feel quite as throbblingly-stiff or as long-lasting as an erection with visual stimulation (need to keep jerking to keep it up)
I have seen generally some solid improvements (that I think are real, not just me no-fap-placebo imagining things):
- as I said, just by looking at a softcore pic I can fantasize a bit and get essentially fully hard...kind of feels like my mind and dick are more connected, if that makes sense
- I feel generally more virile/?alive? ? when I?m fully erect I can see my penis pulsing as I guess the blood pumps in sustaining it. I can?t remember having that sort of erection in a long time?and it seems to be correlated with abstention from PMO
- Another example ? messaging with a fallen-through attempted hookup ? when I got a text from her that said ?I wish I had seen this msg? the next day, I felt a tingling in my pants and was semi-hard and actually had a little precum lol
- Other than the above case, precum only starts to emerge when I?ve been fully stiff and put in a few strokes. Is this more normal?; it seems healthier than the 'seepage', for lack of a better term, from my M days.
- Overall, there is still some variability when I ?test?, but have definitely had some occasions of amazing stiffness/durability from minimal stimulation (either a photo with touch, or touch with no P/Pfantasy)
I?ve read the FAQ answers here to ?how do I know if my ED is related to my porn use? and ?how do you know when you?re rebooted?? Judging by a lot of Gabe?s check points I'm suspecting I had a mild case of PIED and now am well on my way, though perhaps not fully rebooted. For example:
http://legacy.rebootnation.org/index.php?topic=70.0
1: the quality of my erection to sensation-only (as described above) compared to the benchmark using visual stimulus is much better than a few weeks ago (e.g. Day 9 M for 5min to sensation-only ? had precum but didn?t get fully hard), though not quite on par. (Should they be literally indistinguishable? Or is it natural that with a pic/video you?ll be slightly more stiff/less fleeting, as it?s an added +1 arousal input?)
2: Yes.
3: Yes.
4: Somewhat.
5. No. (I have only a couple sporadic weak-to-decent morning wood, and no spontaneous erections that I can remember. MWs are only if you wake up during REM sleep, so perhaps I don?t; are they really a necessary sign for being rebooted?)
6. Yes, I think. I don?t know if I had ?leakage? before, but, as mentioned, when masturbating pre-cum seems to be more controlled.
7. N/A
8. Yes.
9. N/A
10. N/A
I know there is no single surefire sign/answer, but it seems like success with the ?sensation only? masturbation test is the clincher to know if you?re more-or-less healed for ED. Agreed? Because then, in the moment with a real woman, even if the dopamine neurons aren?t super-firing in arousal/imagination/anticipation/fantasy to get an erection, the physical act of arousal/rubbing alone is enough to achieve a strong erection that can do the job.
Anyway, thanks VERY much for taking the time to read this. In summary, I?m interested for any and all input and advice you might have, but specifically:
a) Do you think, based on my story, I was/am suffering from PIED/a PM addiction? If so, perhaps a mild case (I hope)??? ??
b) Both doctors have said that the amount of drinks to cause alcohol-induced ED varies by person, which I?m sure is true, but is also the ?textbook answer?. Does anyone have personal experience/guidelines with ?drinking and dicking??
c) How long should an erection last? (I am encouraged by my strength of erections when testing, but wondering about durability. E.g. if doing sensation only, once you stop rubbing how long should it stay engorged before dying down?)
d) What does natural libido, as opposed to an MO addiction, feel like? (I don?t know, since masturbating has been part of my life since even before the age where we begin to pursue girls sexually!) Is libido meant to feel like an overwhelming, instinctual, almost-animal urge ?to stick your dick in something?? I do feel more driven to get out and approach girls now, though I think shyness would still hold me back from being outgoing. Is this ?flatline? or ?weak libido?? Would a natural, strong libido trump all other influences, no shame, and have you thinking, e.g., while in a bar, priority 1 = sex?
e) Are there professional urologists who do subscribe to or at least have an awareness of the notion of PIED who can be contacted?
f) Am I ready? Or, as best you can tell, how far along in the recovery am I? I am petrified to get in another situation with a woman and not perform and embarrass myself! Though it will have to happen at some point, as that?s the only way to truly know if you?re healed or not. I want to have sex now (lol), but can wait a bit longer if it means far better odds of ?success?.
Thanks!!!