i was doing the NoFap challenge and i was wondering if people agree with me. i personally don't think if someone maybe crumble's one night and masturbate's using they're imagination is anywhere near as bad for the recovery process as scanning through porn video's for a good period of time and masturbating. Don't get me wrong any relapse is not ideal and will still feel disappointing but i don't think it will take you back to square one.
IS MASTURBATING USING YOU'RE IMAGINATION ANYWHERE NEAR AS BAD AS USING PORN?
- Thread starter blueleo7
- Start date
E45
Active Member
I am very new to all this, but I have seen a lot of the text on yourbrainonporn.com talks about the "novelty" of internet porn being one of the worst factors. Lots of people find they seek out lots of images/videos in one session, enjoying seeing something new. And we end up desiring harder/deviant porn as the years go by.
Inside your imagination, I guess there is less "novelty". So imagination cannot be quite as bad as the internet....?
However, if your imagination is focussed on pube-less gravity-defying bimbos doing sordid things, it is probably still a bad habit. I guess that is why the reboot period (no masturbation at all) is needed. After the reboot some people could try to return to masturbation using imagination, but keep it to 'vanilla' sex scenes inside their heads.....?
It would be good if someone more knowledgeable reviewed my thinking on this!
Inside your imagination, I guess there is less "novelty". So imagination cannot be quite as bad as the internet....?
However, if your imagination is focussed on pube-less gravity-defying bimbos doing sordid things, it is probably still a bad habit. I guess that is why the reboot period (no masturbation at all) is needed. After the reboot some people could try to return to masturbation using imagination, but keep it to 'vanilla' sex scenes inside their heads.....?
It would be good if someone more knowledgeable reviewed my thinking on this!
sexual images ---> sexual thoughts ----> dopamine release
Imagination of a porn addict just removes the first step. I've gotten the 'high and hung over' feeling from imagination alone,personally so YES imagination can be just as bad as porn especially if you're just starting. Your imaginations will be influenced in large part by the porn you watched. So if that's the case there's not much of a difference - some say the only difference b/t your imagination and just watching porn is the mouse.
Of course, everyone's imagination is different, in terms of how much you can focus on creating the scene and imagery in your mind and how vivid everything feels and looks in your head - but just know that even the fantasies and memories, etc. are just ways for your brain to get its dopamine hits, this will stop, however, if you let it just wither away and allow your brain to rewire.
As far as 'vanilla sex' scenes- Im sure those dont do as much damage, ill admit, but the thing is, as an addict, you know your history. It all started out as vainlla sex scenes, and at some point that wasn't good enough. Who's to say that wouldnt happen again - where that vanilla sex bores you- and how do you deal with the grey area of what point does vanilla turn into pornographic/fetish?
The main thing of the reboot is this - AVOID ARTIFICIAL SEXUAL STIMULATION. Imagination absolutely constitutes this - even vanilla artificial sexual stimulation is still sexual stimulation and IMHO is best avoided. Sometimes it helps to realize what real horniness feels like. I'll admit that I'm not terribly experienced with women, but I have been involved with a couple recently and I can tell you it feels noticably different from the sort of horniness you feel from porn. It's almost moreso you're thinking about what you can give as opposed to what you can get.
Hope this helped
Imagination of a porn addict just removes the first step. I've gotten the 'high and hung over' feeling from imagination alone,personally so YES imagination can be just as bad as porn especially if you're just starting. Your imaginations will be influenced in large part by the porn you watched. So if that's the case there's not much of a difference - some say the only difference b/t your imagination and just watching porn is the mouse.
Of course, everyone's imagination is different, in terms of how much you can focus on creating the scene and imagery in your mind and how vivid everything feels and looks in your head - but just know that even the fantasies and memories, etc. are just ways for your brain to get its dopamine hits, this will stop, however, if you let it just wither away and allow your brain to rewire.
As far as 'vanilla sex' scenes- Im sure those dont do as much damage, ill admit, but the thing is, as an addict, you know your history. It all started out as vainlla sex scenes, and at some point that wasn't good enough. Who's to say that wouldnt happen again - where that vanilla sex bores you- and how do you deal with the grey area of what point does vanilla turn into pornographic/fetish?
The main thing of the reboot is this - AVOID ARTIFICIAL SEXUAL STIMULATION. Imagination absolutely constitutes this - even vanilla artificial sexual stimulation is still sexual stimulation and IMHO is best avoided. Sometimes it helps to realize what real horniness feels like. I'll admit that I'm not terribly experienced with women, but I have been involved with a couple recently and I can tell you it feels noticably different from the sort of horniness you feel from porn. It's almost moreso you're thinking about what you can give as opposed to what you can get.
Hope this helped
I honestly am still confused about the concept of rebooting, I'm rebooting because I have a fetish for female feet femdom and other kinks that outweighed regular sex, they weren't caused by porn I've had them since I was a child. After a few weeks I relapsed a few days ago to the thought of sex with an actual girl in my class and it was easy.
I don't think of my fetish much at all, I think of girls as a whole now. I'm still going to continue my reboot for a few months and see where I stand, I do have to admit though I saw significant change only for a few weeks, so I think not fapping does nothing but help.
The part I'm confused about is MANY guys masturbate, probably 90%, I just don't see the point to where it gets unhealthy.
I don't think of my fetish much at all, I think of girls as a whole now. I'm still going to continue my reboot for a few months and see where I stand, I do have to admit though I saw significant change only for a few weeks, so I think not fapping does nothing but help.
The part I'm confused about is MANY guys masturbate, probably 90%, I just don't see the point to where it gets unhealthy.
O
OnwardsandUpwards
Guest
Hey man,
I definitely wouldn't consider it worse than P once, as the guys were saying, you're not using porn fantasy. I've tried it and, personally for me, feel like I've set myself back to zero. But that's more to do with my mental state (porn fantasy) and method (choke-hold). If you're taking your time and taking all the sensual senses into account then its just part of the re-wiring process. But if you feel that familiar old self-hatred cycle we all know so well...you're probably not ready. Only you can answer that question brother.
I definitely wouldn't consider it worse than P once, as the guys were saying, you're not using porn fantasy. I've tried it and, personally for me, feel like I've set myself back to zero. But that's more to do with my mental state (porn fantasy) and method (choke-hold). If you're taking your time and taking all the sensual senses into account then its just part of the re-wiring process. But if you feel that familiar old self-hatred cycle we all know so well...you're probably not ready. Only you can answer that question brother.
If i'm being honest,i think for me there is still a slight feeling of guilt and disappointment after masturbating even if its just using mental fantasy,especially if your trying to do NoFap or reboot but it feels a whole lot worse after doing it to porn.i suppose everybody takes things different mentally.
At the end of the day if its to porn or a fantasy,its just a slip up and should be used as motivation to give NoFap or reboot everything you've got.We all have our different reasons for doing this but it all boils down to,trying to better ourselves,so maybe we shouldn't beat up too much.
At the end of the day if its to porn or a fantasy,its just a slip up and should be used as motivation to give NoFap or reboot everything you've got.We all have our different reasons for doing this but it all boils down to,trying to better ourselves,so maybe we shouldn't beat up too much.
Brooklyn Jerry
Active Member
I know that due to the ease of availability on the interweb I searched for hours looking for the perfect scene before I would allow myself to cum. Years ago when I first discovered MO I didn't need anything,but I was only 12 so I was young and numb and full of cum. Later on a picture in a mag was enough for me to get off, they didn't even have to be naked.
I really decided to stop PMO to avoid the need for Viagra, so far it going well. I don't want to cum unless I am with a woman. Maybe if I was younger I would attemp to MO if I knew I wasn't going to be with anyone soon. I don't know if at this time in my life if I could MO without looking at something that got me turned on.
As of today it is 101 days with out PMO or MO. I did edge two times and it did hinder my performance with my lady a day or two later.
It is snowing here today and I am home alone. I am sure tempted to go look at some prom and JO,as I haven't been with my lady since last week and won't be with her for a few days . But thanks to finding this site I came her to read some posts and will go out and tackle the snow.
I really decided to stop PMO to avoid the need for Viagra, so far it going well. I don't want to cum unless I am with a woman. Maybe if I was younger I would attemp to MO if I knew I wasn't going to be with anyone soon. I don't know if at this time in my life if I could MO without looking at something that got me turned on.
As of today it is 101 days with out PMO or MO. I did edge two times and it did hinder my performance with my lady a day or two later.
It is snowing here today and I am home alone. I am sure tempted to go look at some prom and JO,as I haven't been with my lady since last week and won't be with her for a few days . But thanks to finding this site I came her to read some posts and will go out and tackle the snow.
I'd say it's not as bad as using porn itself but it's still firing off and re-strengthening that reward circuitry in the brain that can make you a lot more tempted to use the 'net again.
In my case I made the mistake after two years total abstinence. One day out of the blue, BAM. Random trigger. First in months. Thought I'd be fine at this point. White-knuckled my way through the day, thoughts didn't go away which surprised me so I thought I'd resolved to do something against my better judgement to settle them down. Two days later I was back on internet porn. After two years totally clean of PMO.
I'm not everyone and we're all different... You might be fine, but just take that as a warning. I'd recommend staying away from it.
In my case I made the mistake after two years total abstinence. One day out of the blue, BAM. Random trigger. First in months. Thought I'd be fine at this point. White-knuckled my way through the day, thoughts didn't go away which surprised me so I thought I'd resolved to do something against my better judgement to settle them down. Two days later I was back on internet porn. After two years totally clean of PMO.
I'm not everyone and we're all different... You might be fine, but just take that as a warning. I'd recommend staying away from it.
Didn't read it all but I will tell you my case.
I'm not a porn addict even though I've watched porn before, specially during puberty, but I am addicted to masturbation using just my imagination. I can barely orgasm from porn and real women don't turn me on, that is how bad my addiction to my imagination is, I used to watch some porn movies just to take new ideas from there and then turn off the porn and go masturbate using my mind.
So yeah, imagination is as bad as porn, it's true that you don't have the "click and get new and different things" but actually you can go to porn for that or you can access what you remember from porn and use it for your session.
Right now I'm on day 5 of no-fap no-porn, but the hardest thing for me is avoiding mental imagery, my imagination runs wild, I'm very creative. I must end this because real girls don't do the thing for me anymore...
I'm not a porn addict even though I've watched porn before, specially during puberty, but I am addicted to masturbation using just my imagination. I can barely orgasm from porn and real women don't turn me on, that is how bad my addiction to my imagination is, I used to watch some porn movies just to take new ideas from there and then turn off the porn and go masturbate using my mind.
So yeah, imagination is as bad as porn, it's true that you don't have the "click and get new and different things" but actually you can go to porn for that or you can access what you remember from porn and use it for your session.
Right now I'm on day 5 of no-fap no-porn, but the hardest thing for me is avoiding mental imagery, my imagination runs wild, I'm very creative. I must end this because real girls don't do the thing for me anymore...
Thanks!
I think that my case is pretty special tho.. because my brother taught me how to masturbate when I was 5 years old and I've been doing it since then using just my mind. When I hit puberty and found out about porn it was too late, I was already addicted to my imagination and that's why porn didn't have such an impact on me, I enjoyed it but still enjoyed my imagination much more.
I think that my case is pretty special tho.. because my brother taught me how to masturbate when I was 5 years old and I've been doing it since then using just my mind. When I hit puberty and found out about porn it was too late, I was already addicted to my imagination and that's why porn didn't have such an impact on me, I enjoyed it but still enjoyed my imagination much more.
Brooklyn Jerry
Active Member
I don't know about everyone, but in my case I feel MO was a problem from an early age. I used to MO many times a day once I found out how to do it. I think it kept me from trying to meet girls as a teenager. I am sure most boys JOed, but maybe not as much to hinder the desire to meet real girls.
And for sure easy access to Internet porn lessened my desire to have sex with my wife. I would view some porn and JO before coming home and not really be to,intense in getting laid that nite. I do,wonder how anyone makes money on this stuff as it seems to be available free on the net..
And for sure easy access to Internet porn lessened my desire to have sex with my wife. I would view some porn and JO before coming home and not really be to,intense in getting laid that nite. I do,wonder how anyone makes money on this stuff as it seems to be available free on the net..
NO MASTRUBATION DURING REBOOT. PERIOD!
I hope I caught your attention with that line
But I'm somewhat serious about that.
Here are my reasons for making such a bold statement:
Basically what I'm trying to say. It doesn't matter weather or not is AS bad or just a little bad. Why risk it? Seriously. If you can't abstain for 30, 60 or 90 days, you might have an MO-addiction, P only beeing a catalyst. http://www.yourbrainrebalanced.com/index.php?topic=15133.0
Again: your brain will do anything and everything to get its dopamine hit - including rationalizing why only mastrubation isn't that bad after all - "I mean it's healthy and everyone does it, right?"
I hope I caught your attention with that line
But I'm somewhat serious about that.
Here are my reasons for making such a bold statement:
- The wisdom of the elders (well at lest those whove gone before us) seems to be "Hard Mode".
Check out the journals and success stories of the most successfull fapstronauts and I think you'll find that most of them did hard mode
- It's a slippery slope, "Healthy Mastrubation" (Only touch no fantasy or any other thoughts at all) -> fapping to imagination -> fapping to P-memories/fantasies -> PMO (know this form personal experience, although I broke the chain before I had a full relapse) Why risk it? Isn't one reboot challanging enough for you
- I'm going to say: No Mastrubation, Period. This is controversial, but I don't really care. Mastrubation lowers testosterone. Testosterone much better used to attract women, building your body and your life. Some people claim mastrubation to be helathy. I don't know, I'm not a scinetist or a doctor. But I know there's a flip side to that coin: it's idling your engine, burning your presious male go-juice for nothing. And there's a lot of other ways to maintain your health without the downside. How do I know this? I'm living it.
- During my first 90 days my brain tried everything to get me to MO, including asking the very same question. It was looking everywhere to find an excuse fap, including barrages of fantasies and memories. Today, about 150 days of no P (though admittedly and very disapointingly some MO) not mastrubating is not even an effort (about 50 days hard mode). It's not an option, even now when I'm trying to hook up with a smoking hot girl (I' talking crazy, ridiculusly, hot - you can imagine the sexual frustration and temptation I'm experiencing), it is not an option. My brain's finally learned that MO is not an alternative so all effort is put towards her.
But, hey, if' you'd rather fap to fantasy about such a girl in your lonesome with your windows covered, be my guest, it's your life. I'm done with that kind of life, I want the real thing and there's no room for mastrubation in that life. Perhaps somewhere way, way, wayyyyyyy off in the future, but hopefully I'll be too busy with real-life girls by then so I won't have the time, need or energy to fap then.
- If you're rebooting and you have the need or urge to mastrubate, it's your addiction talking.
- Why do you think recovering alcoholics are adviced to stay away from social gatherings with alcohol? Avoiding cravings and urges. Same applies here, but we're carrying our cravings and urges (or at least a trigger) with us in our pants. Nothing good can come from messing around with your main trigger
- Dr Robert Glover, author of No More Mr Nice Guy http://www.amazon.com/No-More-Mr-Nice-Guy/dp/0762415339/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=05N29KNPF5YTAHQGH3G2 suggests 180 days(!) of hard mode before begining to mastrubate, and then only with out fantasy. Now he's talking about nice guy syndrome not PMO addiction. But for someone who has a problem with mastrubation, mastrubation ought to be really bad.
Basically what I'm trying to say. It doesn't matter weather or not is AS bad or just a little bad. Why risk it? Seriously. If you can't abstain for 30, 60 or 90 days, you might have an MO-addiction, P only beeing a catalyst. http://www.yourbrainrebalanced.com/index.php?topic=15133.0
Again: your brain will do anything and everything to get its dopamine hit - including rationalizing why only mastrubation isn't that bad after all - "I mean it's healthy and everyone does it, right?"
I agree with you, there is absolutely no need to masturbate during the reboot. I still think it is okay to MO later, but in the true sense of "self-loving", not in the sense of jerking off to relieve some pressure.
By the way, I can't resist to point out: it is called masturbate.
By the way, I can't resist to point out: it is called masturbate.