Question about Responsibility

coming late to job, self centered, forgetting and delaying everything... im not sure if the cause of this behavior is porn addiction, especially since he is clean for a whole year...

I can't see how any of this relates to addiction.

Being late, etc., can be a result of hypofrontality and other things, but that should be long gone after a year of recovery.

It takes 3 years for a brain to heal from substance addiction.

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May I ask where you got this information from? The studies I read had different timelines.

Also the studies I read on alcohol addiction suggest that many aspects of hypofrontality do not naturally recover on their own over time - things like sustained attention and impulsivity - those have to be deliberately rebuilt through other means, time alone won't do the trick.

In my recovery I quit playing all video games and dramatically reduced internet use, changed my diet, organized my schedule so that I would be doing one thing for at least 40 minutes or an hour at a time, started meditating and reading in my free time to rebuild sustained attention, etc. In other words I was doing other things to improve my attention/discipline besides just waiting for the brain to recover. Maybe this would work in your fiance's case.

Lack of empathy, thoughtlessness, and selfish behavior seem to be common among former/current addicts. I think sometimes it pre-dates the addiction and might be a product of upbringing or part of some other mental health problem that might not rise to the level of an official diagnosis. Addiction capitalizes on this weakness and magnifies it.

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so it may not be because of an addiction, addiction may just magnify it.

there are problems in life besides porn addiction and those problems will magnify as any problem will magnify under an addiction but it does not mean if you stop the addiction the problem will get solved because there are problems in life that are not caused by an porn addiction.

Well basically my advice would be to tackle these things proactively and not expect time to do it.

Please read this article:
https://www.recoveryanswers.org/research-post/neuroscience-of-recovery-the-brain-in-recovery/
"Now, the not-so-good news: these studies reported no improvement in visuospatial skills, divided attention (e.g. doing several tasks at once), semantic memory, sustained attention, impulsivity, emotional face recognition, or planning.

This means that even after abstinence from alcohol, people in recovery may still experience problems with these neurocognitive functions, which may be important for performing some jobs that require people to pay attention for long periods of time or remember long lists of requests. These functions may also be important for daily living (i.e. assessing emotions of a spouse, planning activities, etc.)."

Some elements of addiction are like breaking a leg - if you keep off of the leg it'll recover sooner or later. Others are sort of like contracting a disease that wipes out your muscle and muscle strength. You can rebuild that athleticism, but it won't come back naturally on its own. It has to be rebuilt deliberately.

It's kind of like having an arrow in your leg. What caused the arrow to be there isn't really the critical question. What's important is what will be done about it. Conscious action has to be taken to fix these things.

AnonymousAnnaXO said:

I understand there are underlying issues, that I always knew, my question is has any other addict experienced those and how did they combat/change them? And yes, I believe for him, he has to be deliberate because he is learning all this for the first time. So, how does one get motivated?

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I don't know what would be stronger motivation than having a child. I would be asking him what sort of man does he want to be for his child? Does he realise that he will set the standard for the male archetype in your child? How he treats that child, and how he treats its mother: if he fucks that up, it's tantamount to child abuse. It's time he got serious about this. If he won't do it for himself or for you, he must do it for his child. Otherwise that child might be better off without him. Take it from somebody who was raised by a dad who was very selfish, withdrawn into his own hobbies and interests, showed no initiative, very lazy, inattentive to his wife - it causes a lot of damage to a child. I would be making this plea to him - it's time to make serious changes for the sake of the next generation. If he must be deliberate and contrived, be that. Make lists daily, do every item on that list. He might feel very inauthentic doing things this way, but it's "fake it till you make it" if he can't do it any other way. These changes will not happen with good intentions. It's a privilege and a responsibility to raise a child. You don't get to take your time and live for yourself while you do that. This is a vital message that must reach him. If he can receive that message, it might also flow onto the things you need from him too.

Anna, I have to say that I'm more of the opinion that his lack of willingness to clean after the cat or turn up to work on time isn't necessary a consequence of porn addiction. His porn use might have at one point been a way of procrastinating, but there are thousands of ways to procrastinate, and none of them have to be porn. So I would say it's his procrastination tendencies that need to be addressed and only he can do this for himself.

It may well be he has never learned how to be responsible for himself let alone anyone else. It doesn't do any good having to "nag" as you say, or otherwise manage him or organise him, because he isn't actually learning to do these things for himself and develop the skills and abilities of managing himself. One of these activities would be getting to work on time consistently, yet why is it that he is habitually late? Either he can't manage his time (being realistic about how much time is needed to do something a learned skill) or he is not respecting other people's boundaries and values (it's not fair on the others, it can be disruptive, he is not always reliable and his ability to either do the job or operate as part of a team will be under questioning).

There have been a few other things like spending money on the latest phone and a guitar when there's a baby on the way, for example. Now you're saying your dad has given him a job and he can't show up on time reliably ? I assume your parents did this as a favour so he would be able to support both you and the child. It's yet another example of someone else having to organise him. As long as people do things for him he won't learn to do things for himself.

OK, I admit I'm being a bit harsh but he has to step up to the plate and take responsibility. He's going to be a husband and a father. That's pretty daunting especially as he's young and the pregnancy was unexpected. YOU know what you're going to have to do because it's your body, it's your baby and there's no getting away from that. You can't just take a day off because you get fed up with being pregnant, can you? There's no escape into la-la-land for you because you know what's real. Either he does his share or you're going to be taking care of the baby AND taking care of him too.

I know it's a difficult time for him. A new baby can be extremely stressful. It's a huge life changing event. Women get that. Some men need more time to process that reality and I suspect he's still coming to terms with his impending fatherhood. It's not necessarily the porn addiction, but perhaps the porn habit kept him in that state of procrastinating and avoidance and he missed out on developing these other life skills. I don't know what the answe is. If you push too hard he could become resentful and rebel - yes, it's stupid I know but you are dealing with a grown up kid. Perhaps as your pregnancy progresses and he realises what's actually real in his life he may actually start being a bit more responsible. For now, tread gently. Encourage rather than push (or "nag") and let him know how much you appreciate it when he does things.

Take care x

Get him to watch the YouTube video entitled "Brene Brown Anatomy of Trust" (link below) and pay particular attention to the bit about integrity. I think all men need integrity and that it is one of the pillars of masculinity in men and maturity in adults. Integrity is the ability to do the right thing instead of the easy or fun thing. An example might be if you were short of food and he went hungry for one meal, so the kids could eat, because they are growing so they need the food more. He could do it out of love, but he could also do it out of integrity.

I think integrity is the sort of thing that tough guys at the FBI have that tough guy criminals don't have and that therefore it is attractive to most women. It's one of the things that separates a knight in shining armour from a regular guy (although sword skills also help!). The benefit to him is that it will improve his self-esteem, pride, confidence, self-acceptance and his belief that he is masculine. At least, I think it does that for me, anyway.

Here's an example of something I actually did that I think demonstrates integrity. I was walking home and an ambulance was stuck trying to get down a one way street because the Porsche in front couldn't get out of the way. The ambulance had pulled over so that the Porsche could reverse onto the pavement (sidewalk) and allow it to pass, but the driver appeared to be unaware. At the time, I was initially just thinking of getting home, because I wasn't obstructing the ambulance. However, I realised I could help, so I went over to the Porsche driver, concerned they'd shout at me, and suggested they reverse onto the pavement. It's surprisingly nerve-racking to do this when there's an ambulance there with sirens on, which you may not understand unless you've been driving in front of an ambulance with sirens on and weren't sure how to get out of the way initially. Anyway, I spoke to the driver, who said that reversing onto the pavement would damage the alloys. At the time, I was so panicked I accepted this, but I think a more alpha male man would have insisted she move because there could be a guy having a heart attack that the ambulance needed to get to.

You may think that the above story isn't particularly masculine, because I didn't press the issue and so she didn't move and I would agree. My point, though, is that I did something where many people would have just walked past because "it wasn't their problem" and also that a masculine man would actually have solved the problem, I suspect. i.e. if I had pressed the issue and she had reversed up the kerb and let the ambulance past then it clearly would have been masculine. There were other pedestrians who did just walk past and I was the only one that spoke to her.

Integrity explains why I wouldn't use porn in which actresses were mistreated, even if it had no negative consequences for me, even if I was single. i.e. if it wasn't addictive, didn't cause sexual dysfunction, etc I still wouldn't use it unless the actresses were clearly happy doing the job. The woman's written or verbal consent isn't enough for a man with integrity, she has to be treated well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewngFnXcqao

this is not my quote or from someone on this forum but i think it makes a lot of sense. at least it does not make me cringe when i read it.

It's natural and healthy to want your partner to grow, to reach their potential, and to be all they can be. Growing and changing together, and working toward mutual (and private) goals is part of a healthy relationship. Insisting on change, forcing change, or manipulating your partner into change is another story. It's just not healthy to force someone to change, even if those changes would be the best thing to ever happen to them.

A person's potential is their own. Their career is their own. Their friends are their own. Their choices, you guessed it, their own. I used to see partners who tried to change their significant others all the time in my work with couples as both a Domestic Violence Victim Advocate and Planned Parenthood Certified Responsible Sexuality Educator. It was never healthy. And I'm not necessarily saying you're in an unhealthy relationship or you're some kind of abuser if you're trying to change your partner. I am saying that your partner is not a project and that you are not responsible for, nor in charge of, their choices. Even if you think you're doing something for their own good, such as pressuring them into school, what you're really doing is trying to remove their choice. That's never OK.

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Emerald Blue said:

OK, I admit I'm being a bit harsh but he has to step up to the plate and take responsibility. He's going to be a husband and a father. That's pretty daunting especially as he's young and the pregnancy was unexpected.

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I don't know where op stated that but..."unexpected"?...really? Did op skip one to many sex ed classes? Missed the wealth of information scattered across the interwebs?: https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control
None of those 18 different methods crossed op's mind?, option 19 of having a child with a not fully recovered, irresponsible porn addict seemed like a better solution than all of the other 18, and abortion or adoption still haven't crossed her mind? Mind blown

To OP:
Yeah no, porn addiction doesn't cause all ails, certain kinds of people may be more susceptible to porn addiction, and you are probably with that kind of person right now. I do believe Numez has a point here in that you are semi responsible for your current situation, even if you aren't responsible for his porn addiction in any way. It's nearly impossible for me to comprehend that a baby can be "unexpected" in the modern age. You seem to be computer competent, so what's the excuse? If you posted this on our side of the fence for an honest conversation, you're going to need to level with us. Was this an "oopsie" (of which the odds could only be insanely minuscule in modern times), or was this more of a "I'll get pregnant to focus his attention on the baby and away from his vices, and then I can get him for child support for 18 years if he fails"?

WOOOOOOOW the ignorance is staggering, Taffer, You illiterate f***bag. You are such an idiot, seriously do you think before you speak? First of all, what happens to that child is her decision, not mine or anyone else's. Of course, as a respectable partner (now fiancee you stupid f***) she took my opinions into account. Me cumming inside her on her period and getting carried away and doing at the wrong time unknown to me is a motherf***ing unexpected child, you idiot.

And holy s*** where the f*** have you been? Haven't you seen the other threads with plumsacks such as yourself about blaming the partner for the situation? Yeah it's her fault I lied, it;s her fault I lied again, and again, and again, it's her fault I got addicted 12 years ago when my parents got divorced, it's her fault that I haven't been trying enough in a romantic way because looking at porn all my life, I never learned romance.

Listen, I get that you're a novice in recovery and you've barely started, but the first step is to stop being in denial and accept the responsibility for what you've done. You will not get anywhere no matter how long you're off porn if you can't understand what this does to other people. Obviously, you're not in a relationship or it's either not serious, or she hates you right now because you are blind and you really don't want to accept responsibility for your actions. I recommend you nut up and suck it up. We, addicts, hurt our partners (if applicable, probably not for you from what you're saying you lonely f***) more than you obviously can understand you neanderthal. So evolve a few thousand years and grow at least a monkey brain so you and all the other s***bags can understand that the only person to blame is ourselves(the addict who did the hurting in the first place).

I'm sick of seeing all these threads of you plumsacks saying "Oh no, my feelings are hurt. I'm gonna go cry to the partners on reboot that they're mean". Well just ask them how they feel! You think it's unfair? So is trapping someone you claim to love into a life of lies. If you think it's unfair, then you shouldn't have gotten married, let alone a partner in the first place. Seriously STOP blaming the partners. It's not just you, but you're not helping. So you and the rest of the brain trust get your heads out of your asses and grow the f*** up.

Jedimaster(1) said:

WOOOOOOOW the ignorance is staggering, Taffer, You illiterate f***bag. You are such an idiot, seriously do you think before you speak? First of all, what happens to that child is her decision, not mine or anyone else's. Of course, as a respectable partner (now fiancee you stupid f***) she took my opinions into account. Me cumming inside her on her period and getting carried away and doing at the wrong time unknown to me is a motherf***ing unexpected child, you idiot.

And holy s*** where the f*** have you been? Haven't you seen the other threads with plumsacks such as yourself about blaming the partner for the situation? Yeah it's her fault I lied, it;s her fault I lied again, and again, and again, it's her fault I got addicted 12 years ago when my parents got divorced, it's her fault that I haven't been trying enough in a romantic way because looking at porn all my life, I never learned romance.

Listen, I get that you're a novice in recovery and you've barely started, but the first step is to stop being in denial and accept the responsibility for what you've done. You will not get anywhere no matter how long you're off porn if you can't understand what this does to other people. Obviously, you're not in a relationship or it's either not serious, or she hates you right now because you are blind and you really don't want to accept responsibility for your actions. I recommend you nut up and suck it up. We, addicts, hurt our partners (if applicable, probably not for you from what you're saying you lonely f***) more than you obviously can understand you neanderthal. So evolve a few thousand years and grow at least a monkey brain so you and all the other s***bags can understand that the only person to blame is ourselves(the addict who did the hurting in the first place).

I'm sick of seeing all these threads of you plumsacks saying "Oh no, my feelings are hurt. I'm gonna go cry to the partners on reboot that they're mean". Well just ask them how they feel! You think it's unfair? So is trapping someone you claim to love into a life of lies. If you think it's unfair, then you shouldn't have gotten married, let alone a partner in the first place. Seriously STOP blaming the partners. It's not just you, but you're not helping. So you and the rest of the brain trust get your heads out of your asses and grow the f*** up.

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Whoah, slow the train SwearyMcswearington. I didn't say you aren't also responsible for your silly decisions to cum inside a woman bare, taking her at her word on birth control (how's that going for ya?). I am saying both parties carry some responsibility for this, and barebacking a neglectful porn addict without adequate birth control is a choice you can make, or not make if you have some foresight/no ulterior motives.

Yeah, I don't have an issue with women doing whatever the he double hockeysticks they want to with their spawn, but if you keep the kid against the wishes of the father, then you should be on your own financially, considering the 20 or so different choices you could have made as an intelligent adult to avoid that situation. All good bro? Cleared some of that up for you? Or would you like to send a few more meaningless expletives flying my way  ;D

This isn't the partners section, partners who don't want an honest discussion needn't post provocative topics here. I don't have a partner, and I'm not enough of a lowlife to drag someone else into this without being honest with them. No it it isn't her fault that you are addicted to porn, I think I already covered that. The rest of your rant isn't really relevant to the points I made, I'll man up when the swath of modern day victims woman up.

Yeah actually. I don't even care what you think of our parental situation, I can't wait to have a little one. You're still someone who really hasn't come to terms yet with your addiction. I recommend that if you want to get better you take responsibility and go from there.