When did the problem really start?

I found out a couple of weeks ago (because I can across my husbands porn stash by accident and then challenged him) that hf has been adicted to porn (he admitted it the next day after denying it). What I have seen so far is nothing violent but certainly beyond 1 on 1 and what we have done. I am still not sure this is the full extent of it but may never know.
E says it started when our sex life dropped off about 5 years after marriage this feels like he is blaming me but.... I have always had a niggling feeling I am not enough and the a diction has kind of been a light bulb moment although I could be wrong. For example...His dad said to me early on I  our relationship that he was glad he had stopped chasing those unattainable perfect girls and had found me. I half laughed, was half insulted but moved past it. Another thing was his mum and dad had a very disfunctional relationship ansplit when he was early 30s and has father remarried a woman (his student) the same age as me. He was always very close to his mum and left his student pad to live with his mum after his dad split. He also said when his mum ( very sadly) passed away that life was not worth living without her ( even a few years later and we were married about 4 years and together for 10 at that point) it seemed like I was not enough. In addition he was a very late starter with sex 24. When we got together we initially had quite a bit of sex but it was never quick and frequently he did not climax at all and would want th change positions constantly never seeming satisfied.
I think there is more to the problem than our post marriage sex tail off (this was about 10 years after we first git together). I think maybe it was not an a diction but there were some unhealthy habits going on before that.  I just want to get to the bottom of it otherwise we will never get through this but I dont think he wants to look at his past or upbringing and can't see past our sex life as the problem. Thoughts?

Hello,

I am not an expert on this issue so I may have very little to help but I am sorry that you are going through this. That really doesn't sound very fair to you.  Also, I am sorry his father said that to you.  That is very insulting.  It sounds like perhaps he did not have the best model for a father and husband, although parents are imperfect.... it may have affected him.

I do not want to turn the focus of this message on me, but can relate to your experience because my fiance cannot reach orgasm with me and only has once in an entire year. I am concerned this will breed lots of problems in the future. However, the other side of me wonders if any man in their 20s hasn't been affected by the prevalence of porn.... and I wonder if things could even be different with another man.  I have not been with many men to know.

It sounds like he has dealt with some depression. Has he ever gone to counseling? Have you discussed any of these things with him?  If so, how has he reacted?

Hopefully some others with more experience with this can weigh in. I am new.

Good luck!

Welcome H, although none of us actually want to be here at all. 

I?m sorry to read of your relationship difficulties. Whether or not your husband has a porn addiction problem, if it?s creating problems in your relationship and your sexual relationship in particular, it?s still a problem that needs to be addressed. I don?t want to be pessimistic but if your husband doesn?t see it as a problem he will carry on regardless. He may well have a porn addiction if he has used it regularly for masturbation over a period of several years in that he has (unintentionally) trained his brain?s reward centres to respond to the stimuli and the anticipation and so on. I suggest you go to YourBrainOnPorn.com and watch the videos on how porn addiction happens in the brain. It explains porn addiction far better than I ever could. All it takes is regular and repeated use to effectively create the pathways in the brain. It?s not necessarily about how often or how much time is spent viewing per week. It?s about the neuroplasticity of the brain. Is your husband addicted to porn? I guess he could be but as it?s all been a big secret you don?t actually know yet. In any case, does it matter? It?s still creating problems.

The secrecy surrounding porn addiction can make it very difficult for you to find out the true extent of his porn use over the long term. I hate to say it, but he?s not likely to be honest about it and you may have to accept you aren?t going to have a full and accurate picture. Porn adds lie about and minimise the true extent of their habit. If you feel you are not getting your questions answered, you would be justified in doing your own detective work. Yes, I know that some people say don?t snoop or spy, but you have the right to know what?s been going on in your marriage so that you can make your own decisions about the life you want to live.

I agree, his dad wasn?t the best role model and as for those remarks about ?chasing those unattainable perfect girls?, I mean WTF? He was a virgin until he was 24?

I agree, I think you need to probe deeper. Porn addiction can mask all kinds of problem in a relationship as well as create new ones. Often there are more deep seated problems that go back further, to the time when porn use was first used as an escape/coping mechanism. Often, porn addicts haven?t really developed mature coping skills and use it in adulthood to self medicate or escape.

Don?t forget about yourself in all of this. You have needs. You have feelings. You still need to honour your feelings and take your own needs seriously. It?s up to you to decide what you want your marriage to look like, and consider what you can live with and won?t tolerate.

Hi Heathertheweather,

I don't know you or your husband except for what you've put up here so I can't claim to know anything that would be helpful to you. But as a married porn addict myself, I can give my perspective that maybe possibly could be similar to his.

I know the thought of wondering if you're good enough for him understandably comes across your mind. For me (and I'm sure for him), this could not be further from the truth. I love and cherish my wife. I cannot imagine life without her. All of the porn videos in the world could never take her place. However, that doesn't make my addiction any less there. Whenever I'm frustrated, bored or stressed, my natural instinct is to turn to porn. I love my wife, but my primitive brain doesn't care. It just wants a shot of the feel good chemicals. Whatever videos he watches, whether it's vanilla 1 on 1 or something far more extreme, remember that those tastes come from the need for greater and greater excitement to satisfy his brains cravings. It doesn't come from who he is as a person.

When it all started, only he knows. But he may not know why he does it. Addictions start when someone tries to fill a void. Whether he knows what his void is, is something he has to do some serious soul searching for. He may not know or ever know. I'm still not even completely sure what my void is, I just know that something's missing. 

If he is (even on the smallest, tiniest level) willing to give up porn, you can be his greatest support. Learning about porn addiction, coupled with love and patience, you can help him get through this. Shame, guilt, ultimatums and leaving him will only drive him deeper into porn. If he at least is willing to say that he wants to have a desire to quit, then there is hope.

Mr. Pazama,
You are right porn fills a void.  That is one of the truest things ever said.  What is difficult for us as wives and partners is that instead of reaching out to us or a trusted friend our guys reach for their dick.  And they do this to women who are enhanced, made up and in shots that keep them attractive.  If only in the real world we could wake up with a beautiful head of perfect hair, enhanced unmarked bodies, with no kids in the next room, no job to go to and wet and ready for the wildest tumble in the sack our partners ever imagined.  And alas if you read through the man threads they in fact expect some of this to be real.  I always put out the premise that if the women in porn were wrinkly with hangy skin, then it would make the addiction less likely. 

That being said, in a way it is us, in your mind.  We cannot be the different person every time.  We cannot change the aging process.  We as wives were the ones chosen by our men and the men are who we chose.  However, they changed our sex life significantly with nary a thought.  We did not get a vote.  We did not get to say we think your sagyy belly is too big or where is your sexual energy.  We were shut out.  And since we trusted our men, we were left to wonder what happened.

I saw where you wanted an accountability partner that you didn't know because you would lie because you were ashamed if you knew the person.  Partners have no one sometimes too.  7years ago there was nothing for us.  We get told, all men do it, wear makeup, dress sexy, try new things in bed etc.  Or we are told to leave.  I had one that got it.  She said he's an asshole.  I was not blamed. 

I wish you luck.  Learning to share whatever bad feeling you have, when you use porn ,with your wife instead of reaching to touch yourself will go a long way in your recovery and will bring the two of you closer.

Hi Heather

The sad reality is that most porn addicts have to reach the very pits of their addiction before they can find the motivation to try and do something about it. What is even sadder is that they pull their partners down with them too!

Try to get your partner to read some of the accounts of porn addiction and PIED on this site. It's all well and good telling somebody not to put their finger in the electric socket, but they won't really understand the repercussions of doing so unless they actually do it themselves. This is why 'a bit of porn now and again' doesn't seem so dangerous to most users. We don't see the danger.

He has to understand that actions have consequences and his porn use will eventually lead him to a very dark place, and unfortunately you also.

I wish you both luck and really try to get him to become a member and read some of the posts here. He can always send personal messages if he wants to discuss just how shit this can get.

Gracie said:

Mr. Pazama,
You are right porn fills a void.  That is one of the truest things ever said.  What is difficult for us as wives and partners is that instead of reaching out to us or a trusted friend our guys reach for their dick.  And they do this to women who are enhanced, made up and in shots that keep them attractive.  If only in the real world we could wake up with a beautiful head of perfect hair, enhanced unmarked bodies, with no kids in the next room, no job to go to and wet and ready for the wildest tumble in the sack our partners ever imagined.  And alas if you read through the man threads they in fact expect some of this to be real.  I always put out the premise that if the women were wrinkly with hangy skin, then it would make the addiction less likely. 

That being said, in a way it is us, in your mind.  We cannot be the different person every time.  We cannot change the aging process.  We as wives were the ones chosen by our men and the men are who we chose.  However, they changed our sex life significantly with nary a thought.  We did not get a vote.  We did not get to say we think your sagyy belly is too big or where is your sexual energy.  We were shut out.  And since we trusted our men, we were left to wonder what happened.

I saw where you wanted an accountability partner that you didn't know because you would lie because you were ashamed if you knew the person.  Partners have no one sometimes too.  7years ago there was nothing for us.  We get told, all men do it, wear makeup, dress sexy, try new things in bed etc.  Or we are told to leave.  I had one that got it.  She said he's an asshole.  I was not blamed. 

I wish you luck.  Learning to share whatever bad feeling you have, when you use porn ,with your wife instead of reaching to touch yourself will go a long way in your recovery and will bring the two of you closer.

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Gracie
I'm not trying to start a debate here, but you really seemed to have missed my point. The point I was trying to make is that just because someone has an addiction to porn, it doesn't mean their wife is necessarily less in the addicts eyes. My wife and I have a wonderful relationship and our sex life has never been impacted in anyway. I choose to protect her and not tell her because I know that, as you pointed out, her thoughts would inevitably focus on her imperfections and ways that she may not measure up. She would wonder why I think all these girls on a computer screen are more beautiful than her, when that is so far from the truth.

And that is the point I'm trying to make. That someone can be addicted to porn while still seeing their wife for the angel she is. The primitive part of the brain craves one thing and that is the chemical rush that porn gives. As I mentioned earlier, whatever he watches to get that rush are separate from who he is as a person and what he truly values and loves. It is different for everyone. Not all addicts have that mentality. But know and understand that it is possible. That was meant to be my message to Heathertheweather. To possibly be able to take comfort in the fact that she doesn't need to try measure up physically.

Her husband obviously loves her, or he would not have chosen to spend his life with her. No, she didn't get a choice in how his addiction may be affecting her. But, she can choose to be a loving, caring, supportive, understanding and patient wife in helping him recover. Addiction is a disease. Sure it's self-inflicted, but it also can be self-healed with those qualities I just mentioned. Thinking, "Why me, what's wrong with me," and, "shape up and fix yourself or I'm leaving," are so damaging for both the addict and their partner.

All of what I've said and suggested will vary based on the couple. Everyone and their situation is different. Including yours Gracie. I don't know if what I've wrote will be of any help to Heathertheweather, but I hope that my perspective at least raised the possibility that some hope could be found in their situation.   

In the light of what has been said here, and speaking from my own experience, being in a relationship with someone with a problematical porn habit WILL bring you down.

Whether or not his porn use has influenced how he sees you is impossible to say. I fully understand that repeated porn use can create new pathways in the brain and alter the brain and body chemistry in response to certain stimuli, and how that it becomes a habit and then a compulsion; and that the individual becomes compelled to seek out what brings him the reward (orgasm). In that respect it?s not ?personal?. But does this actually influence how men see women in real life? Does viewing porn created or change sexual tastes and expectations in real life? Going by what some men say in other sections of this forum, it can. Does that mean it?s the same for all men? Not necessarily. If a man?s sexuality was allowed to develop through relationships rather than through porn consumption he?s probably going to be a lot more grounded in real life experience.

When a porn habit takes root in a relationship, the partner is affected. The first casualty is the sexual relationship. The effects maybe subtle at first but I certainly noticed that my partner was less interested in having sex and was less physically responsive. To say that porn consumption has no impact whatsoever on the sexual relationship is simply not true. I noticed as soon as we were connected to the internet. Meanwhile my husband was under the delusion that it wouldn?t make any difference. It actually changed everything. Forever. If I could go back and do things differently I would.

This was how the porn addiction progressed, from my perspective. The frequency we had sex diminished and over time and dwindled to zero. Eventually I noticed that he paid me less attention, compliments were rare to non existent, He was less interested in me. He stopped telling me about his day, or sharing things like he used to. (And he was never interested in sex.)

I always had to initiate sex, and if I was ?lucky? I might be given pity sex, that became DE, then PIED, then no sex at all. I was turned down more often than not, so I ended up feeling like shit. Meanwhile, he just carried on masturbating to porn without a thought about how was impacting on the relationship, never mind how diminished I was feeling. He wasn?t concerned about my sexual needs and desires AT ALL.

The damage progressed in parallel with his porn addiction. I was living with a massive rejection of every aspect of my womanhood. My body was rejected, my sexuality was rejected, my needs were discounted and ignored and the emotional connection between us was disrupted. I didn?t receive any kind of loving touch.

One of my biggest regrets was not standing up to this porn shit earlier. But I didn?t. Instead I ended up depressed, I developed a poor body image that spiralled into body dysmorphia and disordered eating, my libido switched off, I lost confidence in myself. I was in battle with my body, which I blamed for everything that was going wrong. It was only when I couldn?t take the isolation any more that my husband actually registered that his porn habit had damaged me. It had to go all the way to clinical depression for him to realise.

To me, this was way to high a price to pay so that he could shut himself in with a PC and masturbate in secret. Free porn? I paid the price in loneliness and forfeited my physical and emotional health. And that?s way too high a price for anyone.

If I could do things differently I?d just say ?Stop! No More! Get this porn shit the F out of my house.? I?d make an appointment with a specialist psychosexual therapist to get to the root of his problem. I?d have looked after myself better than I did. But I did none of these things.

I knew from the get go my husband was using porn. I?m not stupid. How some men believe that just because they hide it their partner will never find out is astounding. I don?t go along with the addict controlling what his partner is allowed to know (or not) because I value honesty and truthfulness. I don?t value deception. It?s corrosive. I certainly don?t see myself as an ?angel? in need of ?protection?. I also have a choice on whether I want to spend the rest of my life with a man whose porn addiction has deprived me of having a fulfilling relationship based on honesty and trust, and even a mutually enjoyable sexual relationship. Saying that he chose me as his life partner isn?t quite the catch-all excuse that we should all feel reassured by. The fact is, my husband chose porn when he could have chosen me, whilst at the same time enjoying all the other advantages of the partnership. Obviously I continue to choose my husband despite all we?ve been through, but that?s my point. I have chosen. But if I was to go through any of what I?ve been through in the past, it?s less likely I would choose to remain in a situation that is damaging to me. In that respect, we both have a choice.

I get that men say we are not less in their eyes  What I am explaining is what they do that makes us feel less.  And as a wife one of the most difficult things to work through. 

For example most men don't view it as akin to cheating.  A lot of women do.  Some times we have to look at both sides.  And it takes looking at both sides and working together to heal. 

Yes, Gracie. In a relationship affected by porn addiction both partners are affected in very different ways. In order for a relationship to heal, both partners have to go through their own recovery process as individuals AND work on the relationship together.

For the male partner, there?s a lot more to recovery than quitting porn. The real recovery begins after quitting. Oftentimes the male partner has neglected other areas of his life. He may also have used porn as an escape or distraction in lieu of developing more adult coping mechanisms. Very often he will have neglected the couple relationship as his sexual energies were diverted towards his porn habit whilst the need for secrecy has distanced him emotionally. These problems won?t be addressed, nor can they ever be, if the porn addict continues to hide it.

Female partners have a completely different healing process. Porn is all about sexual objectification, after all. It?s all about the body, even though it?s very much a superficial abstraction of the female body ? there?s not actually another person in the room, it?s all about the construction of an imaginary body in the mind of the porn user. I don?t see pornography use in the same way as a physical infidelity BUT I do see it as a betrayal of the relationship, especially when you consider the energy that goes into the secrecy, searching, hiding, making sure nothing will be discovered, the time that is diverted away from the relationship and so on. All for what? To masturbate? Porn addicts often fail to realise the damage they can do to the partner and the relationship.

With regard to body image, as women we are enculturated to see our bodies as our social (and sexual) calling card, so it?s hardly surprising that we feel that we have failed in some way when our husbands develop a porn habit, that they choose to masturbate to porn rather than make love with their spouse. Porn use will affect the sexual relationship whether the partner knows or not. When she doesn?t know she?ll still feel something is amiss. Some women, when they find out, say that everything suddenly fell into place, that their gut was alerting them to something, or they had nagging doubts about things not feeling quite right.

As part of my own recovery, I?ve had to reclaim and take ownership of my body and my sexuality. I don?t rely on my husband to compliment me or confirm these things to feel OK about myself. I bring my physicality, my sexuality, my sensuality to the relationship but I own these aspects of myself always. These parts of me don?t rely on approval or permission to exist. It took some time and effort and a lot of reading to get to where I am now. It might not be part of everybody?s recovery process but it?s been a big part of mine.

You can communicate to your partner, discuss your problem together. If you are not able to do so, try visiting a counselor, who will help to solve your problem. You can ask your partner to practice Yoga and other meditation techniques to relax his mind which will help treat any kind of stress or depression if any. You can also ask your physician to prescribe medicines to treat your husband's sexual issue. Ask your husband to leave unhealthy habits if any.

PazamaManX said:

Gracie
I'm not trying to start a debate here, but you really seemed to have missed my point. The point I was trying to make is that just because someone has an addiction to porn, it doesn't mean their wife is necessarily less in the addicts eyes. My wife and I have a wonderful relationship and our sex life has never been impacted in anyway. I choose to protect her and not tell her because I know that, as you pointed out, her thoughts would inevitably focus on her imperfections and ways that she may not measure up. She would wonder why I think all these girls on a computer screen are more beautiful than her, when that is so far from the truth.

And that is the point I'm trying to make. That someone can be addicted to porn while still seeing their wife for the angel she is. The primitive part of the brain craves one thing and that is the chemical rush that porn gives. As I mentioned earlier, whatever he watches to get that rush are separate from who he is as a person and what he truly values and loves. It is different for everyone. Not all addicts have that mentality. But know and understand that it is possible. That was meant to be my message to Heathertheweather. To possibly be able to take comfort in the fact that she doesn't need to try measure up physically.

Her husband obviously loves her, or he would not have chosen to spend his life with her. No, she didn't get a choice in how his addiction may be affecting her. But, she can choose to be a loving, caring, supportive, understanding and patient wife in helping him recover. Addiction is a disease. Sure it's self-inflicted, but it also can be self-healed with those qualities I just mentioned. Thinking, "Why me, what's wrong with me," and, "shape up and fix yourself or I'm leaving," are so damaging for both the addict and their partner.

All of what I've said and suggested will vary based on the couple. Everyone and their situation is different. Including yours Gracie. I don't know if what I've wrote will be of any help to Heathertheweather, but I hope that my perspective at least raised the possibility that some hope could be found in their situation. 

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Hi Pazama,

I appreciate your being at the boards and sharing your perspective. I know that if you are here, you are taking your relationship and development seriously. That speaks and reflects very well.

It sounds that you have found a wonderful partner and that you love her very much!  That is wonderful!

I also appreciate your sharing that you don't see your wife as less.

That being said, I cannot speak for any other woman here, but, as a woman..... I'm not sure that being called an angel by a parnter would make me feel any better (especially if he was seeking out non-angelic women in porn).  Society often puts women into either one or another false categories.  One category is the "sl*" word... (the promiscuous, fun, wild, sexual woman that a man messes around with before he gets married),.... and the other is "the angel".. (the virtuous, good-girl, virgin that a man settles down with and marries and has kids with). I have experiences watching my male friends put women into one or the other category and treating them accordingly even though the categories are false.  This is NOT to imply that you have done this, but only is to say that it is a thing that society does sometimes. And, unfortunately, it is not very good for women. The dichotomy is false.  ("Promiscuous" women can make great wives and "virtuous" may want to have wild sex and may do it!)  This is just to say that "angel" label may not make all of us feel better.  I can't speak for others, but it wouldn't help me feel better.

We may not always realize how our actions are influencing our relationship.  Chances are that a porn habit will affect a relationship to some degree even if it is only a small one.  I would say that there are other actions that can also affect relationships.  Even my habit of spending time on social media could affect my relationship with my partner to some degree depending on how often I do it or what kinds of energies I invest into while there. In fact, I can say I *know* that it did. 

I would certainly encourage any wife and husband struggling through PIED to work on their relationship and give it patience and work.  However, in society women are often told to be accommodating, oftentimes implicitly. We are not often accustomed to asking for OUR needs to be met and often we bend over backwards to please. I have a habit of this because it was the dynamic in my household and the dynamic generally seen in my community.  But the truth is, just as men have needs, so do we.  It may not be the most effective to give an ultimatum.  However, I see it as the right of the woman if she wants more.  She is allowed to want more.  It is not a woman's job to make her man's life comfortable while not getting her need's met. I think it is completely okay for a man or a woman to say shape up or I'm out if that is what they really want or need. Of course, it may not be the right choice for all or even most couples, but I think it is a woman or man's right. (For example, I was with an alcoholic for many years and didn't say shape up or I'm out, but I wish I had earlier on!!!)  I also consider sex life very important even if not substance abuse.

Those are my thoughts... 

It's a classic move for an addict to blame someone else, I got blamed too, and then he denied blaming me lol. I would be very surprised if his problem started during your marriage. It's much more likely that he already had it and it escalated over the years