Are we losing the culture war?

Hey all, I hope you are well.  I've been thinking about this alot.  Some of us may be winning our own battle, but are we losing the war?  I just visited the V & A recently and went to a special exhibition about video games.  It was amazing and I recommend it.  But in the commentary section there were videos of panels  talking about the cultural significance of video  games.  I was on board until sex games were brought up and the panel.was in favor of some pretty borderline offensive games.  I had no idea commercial sex games were a thing, but apparently they  are.  The sex games  i got involved with back in the day were all free online and very primitive.  But anyway.  I feel like we are losing  ground and I have  felt very on edge ever since.  Not only are we ex porn addicts fighting against our own demons, many of us  fight for the  cause of ridding the world of porn.  Not only do we have to face huge business conglomerates and the corporations that have built a multi billion dollar  industry, but now liberals  have  jumped on the bus too.  I feel like porn addiction may be here to say.  The future looks very bleak to me.  To think that the media that played a roll in destroying my life for years is now a talking point for liberals is hard to swallow.

Rich

PS.  I am using the word liberal here merely to point out that liberals are making the point.  I am center left myself, but my problems with the sex positivity movement and other left campaigns have less to do with politics than with the trauma that porn has done to my own life and my experience as a recovering porn addict.  This post isn't about politics as much as it is about the topic of porn in media and games. 

Rich

As depressing as it is it seems only a matter of time until every facet of our lives is infiltrated with porn. Sex obviously sells, all of us on here have bought in to it and a trying to break free from it. Computer games have done everything else haven't they, look at Grand theft auto, if it wasn't bad enough it's getting more depraved every sequel. The games industry is looking for it's next shocking step forward, I guess sex is it.

Unfortunately, porn will really be everywhere, if it isn't already. I've said this before: One who could stay porn free in this era is worth of all the respect in the world. Movies, games, social media, advertisements at the subway, on the street, you cannot stay away from those fucking stimulants. You feel like you want to jerk off to death. The fact that a lot of porn is free and you can't overdose, you can't kill yourself with it, makes it that much dangerous. You can go on watching porn and jerking off your entire life then looking back and realizing you are a virgin with no life. That's right. Younger generation today has more and more problems with girls because they start PMOing at 10 years old or whatever. By PMOing you really throw away all your life energy everyday, several times a day. How can you be a man anymore? This is the easiest castration. Turning male into docile, non-aggressive, impotent pseudo-females. It's fucking disgusting. And then older men say younger generation are pussies. How the fuck one stops from being a pussy with so much porn?

This has been the trajectory for who knows how many years.  People on the "cutting edge" have always struggled to differentiate between sex positive/openmindedness and drawing lines.  Those lines keep changing, a sure indication that they are arbitrary.  All that existed for a long time was a very foggy sense of "consent".  "Me too" mixed that up a bit as "consent" became a bit more vague (rightly so, coercion and intimidation play strongly into the porn industry) and now we have all the gender fluidity stuff, which is not just about people doing what they want, but really insisting on universal adoption of philosophies.  This is where we get the Jordan Peterson phenomenon as people push back on it.

Whether we're losing the war or not, I am thankful for this: If someone is struggling with porn, figures out that they should get it out of their lives, good resources are a mere Google search away.  Ten years ago there was nothing.  Twenty years ago, the idea of a porn addiction would have maybe been a subject of day time TV, but not really taken seriously.  There are good arguments outside of religious circles, even among atheists why this stuff is poison.  As more and more people turn away from porn and know what damage is causes, the less power this stuff has, because there are more witnesses.  As these people become teachers, parents, leaders, media voices, then the lessons taught are very different.  The porn world gains market share every day because technology permeates, but the credibility of the nofap movement only increases as well. 

(As a lover of classic video games, I yearn for the days of 8-bit and 16-bit Nintendo... games had evolved past just being hungry for quarters, but hadn't grown so competitive to seek addiction behavior like new open world games or mobile games do.)

DoneAtLast said:

(As a lover of classic video games, I yearn for the days of 8-bit and 16-bit Nintendo... games had evolved past just being hungry for quarters, but hadn't grown so competitive to seek addiction behavior like new open world games or mobile games do.)

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I used to play 8-bit games, that was everything I had until I turned 15 or 16. I don't remember those games being so addictive like today's games. I mean, I didn't spend all day inside, playing 8-bit. I did a lot of things with other kids that probably if you went back to that place today (I've moved out from there) kids maybe wouldn't play anymore "Hide-and-seek" and stuff like that. We really did find pleasure in those things. How can you teach a kid nowadays to find too with so much technology. Online computer video games and porn are more stimulating than a "Hide-and-seek". Without realizing, they prefer the former to the latter. When I lived there, there were no computers and no Internet. Now they have everything you find in the big cities (and I'm talking about a small town). Every kid has technology there (this includes access to the Internet porn that I  didn't have access to at 10 years old). I am not very old but I happened to catch times without this technology and I've seen both. But there are many people today in the younger generation who don't even know what that was, for them these are just stories.

I'd say, yes, we are very much losing the war. Society is showing no signs of waking up to itself around the hypersexualisaton of the modern world. In fact, with each passing year, we are becoming more and more desensitised to porn. I can actually imagine some time in the future porn might be totally mainstream - like not even something people keep to themselves. That would have disastrous consequences for mankind of course. I think PIED will need to become a rampant epidemic for any action to be taken on a societal or  governmental level. But maybe that's the way it has to be. We only seem to fix things when they are emergencies these days - the will isn't there to head things off before they become problems. Who can we even go to to protest what porn is doing. Only the most conservative politician would hitch his wagon to a motion to restrict porn - and conservatives are already barely taken seriously except by their own.

So, yes, this is going to be all about personal battles for the time-being - not winning wars. But each battle is important. We have to win to have any hope.

I would like to reply some reassurance to poster changemylife. My  kids, ages 11 &8, play hide and go seek, lol. We have very limited online access for them but we do allow them to use the computer for certain things, always in public spaces like in the kitchen when I am cooking, in the living room with others around. We homeschool and they take 1 online class per term so they are comfortable with technology. They are allowed 3 hrs per week of recreational screen time (that includes movies, games like mine-craft that are not connected online, ect). In a nutshell we live differently. Our kids both know how to weld, plasma cut, operate a torch set, cook, chop, and can baked just about anything. They know their way around a kitchenaid mixer better than my husband, lol! The have confidence that they can do anything as long as they have a desire and patience. They build catapults and launch all kinds of things, they invent games, build full metal armor for spartan Halloween costumes, and sew and design clothing and jewelry. Other kids in the neighborhood have made comments on how they are weird and how mean my husband and I are for not letting them have more screens but then they come over and realize that my kids have their own tool set and can build a tire swing themselves and then I see the spark. Now kids from around the neighborhood think my husband and I are the cool parents, lol. They get excited to come over, heck half of them have projects they stash at our house that they are working on. I have even walked into the livingroom to see 5 kids ages 8-13 reading books! We have a lot of books (that's my addiction, lol). The tv was right there and they all chose to read! Yes culture is heading down a sad path but I think if we want to see change then we need to be the change. We need to create environments where kids can experience more. Most kids when posed with the question of playing a video game or building your own samurai sword will choose the latter, just sayin.

I think people will change their views on porn eventually. I read things on reddit.com/r/nofap and nofap.com all the time that give me hope. In my case I'm actually glad I dealt with porn addiction, since it taught me about sexual conditioning and the nature of addiction and habit-forming.

HumbleRich said:

Hey all, I hope you are well.  I've been thinking about this alot.  Some of us may be winning our own battle, but are we losing the war?  I just visited the V & A recently and went to a special exhibition about video games.  It was amazing and I recommend it.  But in the commentary section there were videos of panels  talking about the cultural significance of video  games.  I was on board until sex games were brought up and the panel.was in favor of some pretty borderline offensive games.  I had no idea commercial sex games were a thing, but apparently they  are.  The sex games  i got involved with back in the day were all free online and very primitive.  But anyway.  I feel like we are losing  ground and I have  felt very on edge ever since.  Not only are we ex porn addicts fighting against our own demons, many of us  fight for the  cause of ridding the world of porn.  Not only do we have to face huge business conglomerates and the corporations that have built a multi billion dollar  industry, but now liberals  have  jumped on the bus too.  I feel like porn addiction may be here to say.  The future looks very bleak to me.  To think that the media that played a roll in destroying my life for years is now a talking point for liberals is hard to swallow.

Rich

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I can understand making a personal choice to cut porn out of your life, but aren't you being just a tiny little bit bigoted here? Who is "we", conservatives, porn addicts? Just because I want my boyfriend to be able to maintain an erection doesn't mean I want to control what everyone else gets to watch/play. If conservatives had their way 20 years ago we probably wouldn't have video games at all. Remember the good old days when grand theft auto was the controversial hot topic, you okay with barring consenting adults from playing that as well?

malando said:

I think PIED will need to become a rampant epidemic for any action to be taken on a societal or  governmental level. But maybe that's the way it has to be. We only seem to fix things when they are emergencies these days.

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Hardly any men actually want to have sex or kids these days anyways. For every 1 man on these forums, there's probably 100 who don't actually want to have sex and don't think it's a problem. It's getting harder to find a man to have sex let alone to commit. I can hardly blame them, it's getting pretty unfair/dangerous for them...but a girl has needs ;D

If one looks at 'traditional' religious cultural society they always 'cover' the woman and it has to do with the sexual dynamics of people. Most porn addicts know that sexual 'fantasy' is harmful and causes them to relapse. By covering woman people figured out was an effective way to prevent sinful lust as well as sexual fantasy. As a recovering porn addict every time I see a hot woman out on the park just the sight of her, her hands, feet is enough for me to start 'fantasizing' about them.

Most pious followers also avoid physically touching woman, you hear on the news pious leaders refusing to sit next to a woman on the plane, although it sounds 'paranoid' but it was put in the religious code to prevent sexual lust. Every time I come in contact with a hot woman, even smelling her is enough to start relapsing.

Maybe because I am rebooting that I am seeing the obvious connection between religious conducts and the harm of secularism.

Gamergirl32 said:

malando said:

I think PIED will need to become a rampant epidemic for any action to be taken on a societal or  governmental level. But maybe that's the way it has to be. We only seem to fix things when they are emergencies these days.

Click to expand...

Hardly any men actually want to have sex or kids these days anyways. For every 1 man on these forums, there's probably 100 who don't actually want to have sex and don't think it's a problem. It's getting harder to find a man to have sex let alone to commit. I can hardly blame them, it's getting pretty unfair/dangerous for them...but a girl has needs ;D

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So on one hand you have stated above that you don't want people to be stripped of the right to get their rocks off to porn, but on the other hand you are lamenting the loss of the sexual male. I'm sorry to tell you, but you really can't have both. Porn is so easily accessible and it's so addictive, it is always going to enslave a large number of men as long as that easy availability continues. Porn is killing real sex, it's just a sad reality. Personally, I wouldn't mind if porn was banned/illegal. I wouldn't have said that 5 years ago, but I've reached the point where I don't see any redeeming aspect to it. I don't buy the whole "healthy sexuality" angle with porn. I don't think it represents freedom and well-being. I think it represents enslavement and sickness. It's the opposite of healthy sexuality. If porn was gone, the men would return. Video games also seem to burn out the real-world aspects of addicts. Maybe you hand out with video game addicts too much? A lot of them are probably not that interested in sex with a real girl either. A lot of them are probably also porn addicts - or worse still, sex game addicts. We pay the price for things that are over-stimulating. Real life just can't compare to the fantasy world.

malando said:

Gamergirl32 said:

malando said:

I think PIED will need to become a rampant epidemic for any action to be taken on a societal or  governmental level. But maybe that's the way it has to be. We only seem to fix things when they are emergencies these days.

Click to expand...

Hardly any men actually want to have sex or kids these days anyways. For every 1 man on these forums, there's probably 100 who don't actually want to have sex and don't think it's a problem. It's getting harder to find a man to have sex let alone to commit. I can hardly blame them, it's getting pretty unfair/dangerous for them...but a girl has needs ;D

Click to expand...

So on one hand you have stated above that you don't want people to be stripped of the right to get their rocks off to porn, but on the other hand you are lamenting the loss of the sexual male. I'm sorry to tell you, but you really can't have both. Porn is so easily accessible and it's so addictive, it is always going to enslave a large number of men as long as that easy availability continues. Porn is killing real sex, it's just a sad reality. Personally, I wouldn't mind if porn was banned/illegal. I wouldn't have said that 5 years ago, but I've reached the point where I don't see any redeeming aspect to it. I don't buy the whole "healthy sexuality" angle with porn. I don't think it represents freedom and well-being. I think it represents enslavement and sickness. It's the opposite of healthy sexuality. If porn was gone, the men would return. Video games also seem to burn out the real-world aspects of addicts. Maybe you hand out with video game addicts too much? A lot of them are probably not that interested in sex with a real girl either. A lot of them are probably also porn addicts - or worse still, sex game addicts. We pay the price for things that are over-stimulating. Real life just can't compare to the fantasy world.

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And also I think that too much porn/masturbation/video games create social anxiety which makes a lot of guys having a hard time talking to girls even if they want to have sex.

DoneAtLast said:

Whether we're losing the war or not, I am thankful for this: If someone is struggling with porn, figures out that they should get it out of their lives, good resources are a mere Google search away.  Ten years ago there was nothing.  Twenty years ago, the idea of a porn addiction would have maybe been a subject of day time TV, but not really taken seriously. 

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Before NoFap and Reboot Nation there was X3 Church but it was mainly Christians using it. Don't think the non-religious would want to go such a site.

Anyway, I don't know who we are and what this war is. I'm hopeful about the future. Young people keep surprising at how mature and open-minded they are. In the end, love will win.

thisisme said:

DoneAtLast said:

Whether we're losing the war or not, I am thankful for this: If someone is struggling with porn, figures out that they should get it out of their lives, good resources are a mere Google search away.  Ten years ago there was nothing.  Twenty years ago, the idea of a porn addiction would have maybe been a subject of day time TV, but not really taken seriously. 

Click to expand...

Before NoFap and Reboot Nation there was X3 Church but it was mainly Christians using it. Don't think the non-religious would want to go such a site.

Anyway, I don't know who we are and what this war is. I'm hopeful about the future. Young people keep surprising at how mature and open-minded they are. In the end, love will win.

Click to expand...

If the new science about porn addiction gets to as many young people as possible, hopefully some that could become addicts won't become. If we could save some 14 years old kids, then it will be great. This is my hope. At the same time, I wonder how my relationship with porn would've evolved had I known what I know now by the time I was 14. But I don't know how much information about porn addiction existed back then and even if it did, I had no access to it. I had a book about problems caused by cigarettes, for example. After I got caught by my parents smoking, my mom gave me that book to read about it. However, maybe not the book stopped me from smoking again, but the fear that I could get caught for the second time and beaten this time hahahaha

There's a ton of evidence on the damaging effects of booze, and yet alcoholism rates are climbing annually in the U.S. We now know better than ever how opiates work on the brain, and yet opiate addiction and opiate-related overdose have reach epidemic proportions. From a public health perspective, what works even better than the educational tactics aimed at raising awareness around the harms that may be associated with use is limiting the availability of such substances, or taxing the hell out of them. This tactic doesn't work as easily with porn (at least in the U.S.) because some claim it is an expression of "free speech." I doubt you're in favor of undermining anyone's right to freedom of speech, particularly if you're conservative. Unfortunately, this probably means that porn isn't going anywhere, anytime soon. I think it's great that we're continuing to amass research related to the adverse effects of porn on the brain/body, but I doubt if even that will do much to curb the corrosive influence of porn in our culture. My belief is that porn and porn addiction (and all addiction) is just a symptom of the larger cultural problem, anyway. It's the materialism (the belief that we're nothing but our bodies) and ego-centrism (the belief that the "world" revolves around "self") that are at the root of the problem. These two widely held cultural beliefs have resulted in an psychological/existential crisis within Western Civ (especially the U.S.), compelling individuals to "escape" the burden of self-consciousness through whatever means necessary/possible. The "culture war" was lost a long time ago. We are merely witnessing the fallout. That said, I am presently doing all I can to change my own beliefs about the world and about self. I am committed to growing my conscious contact with spiritual realities, as well as looking for how I can be useful to those around me. To win the culture war, we don't have to change porn-related policy, we have to change ourselves. 

changemylife said:

thisisme said:

DoneAtLast said:

Whether we're losing the war or not, I am thankful for this: If someone is struggling with porn, figures out that they should get it out of their lives, good resources are a mere Google search away.  Ten years ago there was nothing.  Twenty years ago, the idea of a porn addiction would have maybe been a subject of day time TV, but not really taken seriously. 

Click to expand...

Before NoFap and Reboot Nation there was X3 Church but it was mainly Christians using it. Don't think the non-religious would want to go such a site.

Anyway, I don't know who we are and what this war is. I'm hopeful about the future. Young people keep surprising at how mature and open-minded they are. In the end, love will win.

Click to expand...

If the new science about porn addiction gets to as many young people as possible, hopefully some that could become addicts won't become. If we could save some 14 years old kids, then it will be great. This is my hope. At the same time, I wonder how my relationship with porn would've evolved had I known what I know now by the time I was 14. But I don't know how much information about porn addiction existed back then and even if it did, I had no access to it. I had a book about problems caused by cigarettes, for example. After I got caught by my parents smoking, my mom gave me that book to read about it. However, maybe not the book stopped me from smoking again, but the fear that I could get caught for the second time and beaten this time hahahaha

Click to expand...

Agreed.  If it was plausibly explained to me at age 14 that porn was highly addictive and came with a myriad of side effects, I would have stayed away.  Probably would have peeked at various points in my adolescence, but would have known the warning signs of addiction and cut it off before it started. 

I also never touched any drugs besides alcohol, which I regulate through my adulthood understanding what too much drinking looks like and knowing when I should step away.

The opiate crisis is something else entirely.  No one goes on porn after surgery and gets hooked after a prescription.  Plus, everyone at least knows about the harms of drugs, to one extent or another.  Differences in opinion exist, varying myths still circulate, but no one out there really thinks hard drugs are a completely harmless pasttime.  Imagine all the hardcore drugs being readily available to people of all ages for free with no warnings, and even some encouragement that it is healthy.  That is what the porn world has been like.

DoneAtLast said:

Agreed.  If it was plausibly explained to me at age 14 that porn was highly addictive and came with a myriad of side effects, I would have stayed away.  Probably would have peeked at various points in my adolescence, but would have known the warning signs of addiction and cut it off before it started. 

I also never touched any drugs besides alcohol, which I regulate through my adulthood understanding what too much drinking looks like and knowing when I should step away.

The opiate crisis is something else entirely.  No one goes on porn after surgery and gets hooked after a prescription.  Plus, everyone at least knows about the harms of drugs, to one extent or another.  Differences in opinion exist, varying myths still circulate, but no one out there really thinks hard drugs are a completely harmless pasttime.  Imagine all the hardcore drugs being readily available to people of all ages for free with no warnings, and even some encouragement that it is healthy.  That is what the porn world has been like.

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Porn is a tricky drug. You can't overdose on it, you can't die from it. There are no limits. There are so many substances you can take before killing yourself but you never have this risk with porn. You can watch all day and all night. So you could easily go on for decades with porn and be alive while suffering from related problems, PIED being one.

In response to the comments from GamerGirl, no I do not feel that we should outlaw hyper sexual behavior, be it sex education through games, swinging, polyamory, etc.  I am not wholly a conservative.  ?We? means recovering porn addicts, although I also meant it as critics of liberal ideas in general.  As a libertarian I say that anyone can do anything they want as long as it does not physically harm anyone else.  Emotional repercussions are difficult to identify and prove, thanks to cultural relativism it is almost impossible to even define emotional abuse, let alone take precautions against it. 

All I have to say to liberals is do whatever the heck you want, but be an adult and take responsibility for the consequences.  Don?t expect the country to solve your problem. 

End of rant.

Rich