Is porn like chocolate cake?

Just wondering. Pornography, when overused can cause problems, just like abusing chocolate can. With chocolate cake, you feel drained, unfulfilled and it can lead to physical changes to your body (i.e. obesity, diabetes, heart disease) Porn is very similar, I think. If you use it everyday, it can cause symptoms similar to ADD, sexual dysfunction, OCD, memory impairment, social anxiety,...However, having a slice of chocolate cake on a special occasion like Christmas won't give you diabetes. In the same way watching porn every once in awhile won't cause ED or anxiety. Does anybody have any thoughts on this subject? Just curious here.

Everything in moderation i guess?
Something that changes your brain from prolonged exposure as visciously as porn does cant be compared to chocolate cake. Chocolate cake doesnt make one dead in bed. One doesnt spend days looking for the perfect chocolate cake, the best ingredients cooked by the best patissiere. And i dont think ive ever missed work and nearly been fired for sitting on the office toilet for an hour beating myself to videos of chocolate cake! Nor have i returned to the office with chocolate cake stains on my tie because i forgot to flip it over my shoulder while eating it! (This actually happened, i had a jizz stain on my tie when i pulled off at work).
But yeah, all things in moderation.

Wow! Okay...I don't think my porn habit ever got to that point. Sorry to hear about it. But, you have to admit that there are people that just sit at home and eat cake all day until they're 450 lbs, jobless, depressed and all by themselves. But you get my meaning though...as long as you use it for special events (let's say you and your girlfriends wanna spice things up for one night) I really don't see much of a problem with it. I just don't like the attitude of PORN IS EVIL. I take drugs because I think they're fun but I also understand that they can be dangerous.

I think most of us here understand that porn can be good and helpful, just not the way we have been using it.

PresidentCoolidge said:

Just wondering. Pornography, when overused can cause problems, just like abusing chocolate can. With chocolate cake, you feel drained, unfulfilled and it can lead to physical changes to your body (i.e. obesity, diabetes, heart disease) Porn is very similar, I think. If you use it everyday, it can cause symptoms similar to ADD, sexual dysfunction, OCD, memory impairment, social anxiety,...However, having a slice of chocolate cake on a special occasion like Christmas won't give you diabetes. In the same way watching porn every once in awhile won't cause ED or anxiety. Does anybody have any thoughts on this subject? Just curious here.

Click to expand...

There actually have been a lot of comparing between pornography and fast-food. Dr. Harry Fisch, who is urologist, compared the two together and said that if porn is used sparingly (like eating fast-food) then it's probably alright. BUT(!), I really do think all bets are off once you have become addicted and dependent to pornography. Not only does a single pornography viewing likely easily re-stimulate the pornography addiction and PIED pathways (much, much, much easier than the non-addict), but it also is EXTREMELLLLY hard to control for the recovered addict. For both of those reasons, the best advice is to just not do it. If you really need a release, it's much smarter, safer, and healthier for us recovering addicts to just masturbate without pornography.

Just for an example, right when I started rebooting there was a success story of a guy who totally recovered and then masturbated to pornography four times of a certain period. He said when he went to have sex with his partner again, he was having trouble getting it up and was definitely desensitized. That's just an example that kind of shows that it really doesn't take much for us addicts to re-stimulated those old pathways in our brain and cause desensitization.

Just my two cents!

Let me rephrase the question....


Porn is like a glass of whiskey.    Is it healthy for an alcoholic to have a big glass of whiskey just on special occasions?  They are both addictions.

The concept missing in the original question is the concept of addiction.  It is never OK for an addict to think he/she is fixed and can now just enjoy a little every now and again.  You're fooling yourself to think otherwise.

my 2 cents.

Cheers,

p.

@ Fappy, I actually have beat off to videos of chocolate cake...OK, I have never done that, but I am voting you the most visually descriptive member of the rebootnation today.  Hilarious. 

@ CrateDane, respectfully, no, porn is not good and helpful under any circumstances.  I cannot imagine any context where porn is good and helpful.  I mean this respectfully, this is a forum dealing with addiction and its horrible side effects, such as being unable to reach orgasm during sex, or being unable to actually have sex.  For an addict, and I stress this, for an addict, porn is incredibly harmful.  Now, understand, this is no moral judgment.  For porn addicts, porn is just cause and effect.  We see porn, we get a dopamine high.  Addicts can choose to avoid the high by not seeing porn, but we have no choice if we do see it, if we see it we get a dopamine spike.  We have no choice in that, it is Pavlovian, cause and effect, stimulus and response, it is automatic.  So the way addicts overcome the addiction is to avoid the cause of the dopamine spike.  It is really very simple.  Crate, if you are addicted, and only you can know that, you will never over come that addiction by allowing porn in your life even a little bit.  Porn addiction can be starved to death, but the slightest amount, if you keep it in your life, feeds the addiction.  This is simply the nature of dopamine addiction.  Addicts, especially at the very beginning, literally cannot conceive of never having porn (never getting that dopamine high through artificial sexual stimulation), but the truth is, giving it up is quite doable, and the only thing you give up is getting high on porn.  This probably sounds dumb, but, once you quit getting high on porn you will find getting high on life is very nice. 

Mr. President, I think the point Fappy is making, in his dry and witty way, is that for porn addicts, there can be no moderation.  If you are a porn addict, and you are trying to overcome porn addiction, aka dopamine addiction, then, at least and especially during the reboot, you are trying to kill the reward pathways for porn and trying to build reward pathways to real sex, and that means porn must be avoided like the plague.  I will say, this far out, while I don't seek porn ever, it really does not affect me like it did when the addiction was a daily thing.  I avoid it still, I don't indulge it, but if I see something on the internet, I have absolutely no fear of relapsing.  But, especially during the reboot, porn addicts have to totally avoid it because experiencing it lights up that dopamine reward pathway, and that is what we are trying to kill. 

@Poker, what Poker said.  His 2 cents is worth $38.19. 

Guys how do i set a counter on my profile for the number of days i havent pmo'd?

If you look at the bottom of message, by my counter, you will see a blue line that says that if you want to get a counter, click on it.  It pretty much leads you through it from there.

Peace.

William said:

@ CrateDane, respectfully, no, porn is not good and helpful under any circumstances.  I cannot imagine any context where porn is good and helpful.  I mean this respectfully, this is a forum dealing with addiction and its horrible side effects, such as being unable to reach orgasm during sex, or being unable to actually have sex.  For an addict, and I stress this, for an addict, porn is incredibly harmful.  Now, understand, this is no moral judgment.  For porn addicts, porn is just cause and effect.  We see porn, we get a dopamine high.  Addicts can choose to avoid the high by not seeing porn, but we have no choice if we do see it, if we see it we get a dopamine spike.  We have no choice in that, it is Pavlovian, cause and effect, stimulus and response, it is automatic.  So the way addicts overcome the addiction is to avoid the cause of the dopamine spike.  It is really very simple.  Crate, if you are addicted, and only you can know that, you will never over come that addiction by allowing porn in your life even a little bit.  Porn addiction can be starved to death, but the slightest amount, if you keep it in your life, feeds the addiction.  This is simply the nature of dopamine addiction.  Addicts, especially at the very beginning, literally cannot conceive of never having porn (never getting that dopamine high through artificial sexual stimulation), but the truth is, giving it up is quite doable, and the only thing you give up is getting high on porn.  This probably sounds dumb, but, once you quit getting high on porn you will find getting high on life is very nice. 

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I felt it was implied in my response that the way we (us users on the forum, us addicts) is not a healthy or helpful way to use porn. Im 100% certain that it is helpful and nice for some people, the people who are not addicts

In my opinion nothing is analogous to Today's Internet porn, because nothing is analogous to sex.

There exists no analogous stimulus because porn use can shape and alter our brain's innate sexual circuits. There are no innate circuits for alcohol, nicotine, first-person shooter, black jack, etc. While Junk food is a supernormal stimulus, eating french fries for 10 years (age 12 >22) will not alter one's trajectory as a human being. You may be a bit fatter, and enjoy chips over apples, but you can change your diet in one day, instantly become healthier - and never look back.

However, 10 years of masturbating, everyday to 3-minute hard core videos,  starting at age 12 will result in a definite impact by age 22. 

Our sexual circuits will be shaped through sexual activity - there is no choice because sex is our most powerful natural reinforcer, and our genes top priority. The shaping of sexual circuits occurs at warp speed during adolescence, when the prime directive is to rewire the brain (pruning 100 billion connections) to everything associated with sex so that the mammal can successfully reproduce. An adolescent will be impacted, in ways that they will never know or recognize.

Forget everyday use. I sincerely believe that occasional porn use is still quite capable of affecting our tastes, our expectancies, our desires, and our perceptions. Old studies from the 1980's (on adults) bear this out as watching an hour of porn, 5 times over a few weeks resulted in huge changes in the users views on worsens rights, rape, date rape, etc. Similar studies found an immediate escalation to harder more "unusual porn", for nearly every participant. Again, these were adults. 

SEE:
- http://profiles.nlm.nih.gov/NN/B/C/K/V/_/nnbckv.pdf
- http://yourbrainonporn.com/effects-prolonged-consumption-pornography-family-values-1988
- http://yourbrainonporn.com/pornographys-impact-sexual-satisfaction-1988
- http://yourbrainonporn.com/pornography-and-sexual-callousness-and-trivialization-rape-1982

Bottom line - sex is unlike anything else...in it's importance, in it's effects, and in the complex brain centers devoted to it.

Interesting Gary! Thanks for the response, I've been thinking about this thread for awhile. Out of curiosity, do you think things like a 10+ year long food addiction will potentially result in similar side effects as pornography addiction because both are innate sexual circuits? I thought I heard that they've seen addiction related brain changes in people who chronically over eat. Just for the sake of conversation, do you think that someone who chronically and habitually overeats junk food for 10+ years may need a year of "food rebooting" P) to reverse brain changes?

I know this doesn't have too much to do with pornography addiction...but just wondering if you have any knowledge or thoughts.

Not an expert in food over eating, but I do understand Cause and Effect.

It could be as simple as bad food habits, but typically food addicts are using food as a substitute, or a crutch.

You need to understand the reason first, and resolve conflict in your life.

I Don't Want to Talk About It: The Secret Legacy of Male Depression by Terrance Real was an amazing book that has helped me tremendously.  I highly recommend it. 

fugu said:

Interesting Gary! Thanks for the response, I've been thinking about this thread for awhile. Out of curiosity, do you think things like a 10+ year long food addiction will potentially result in similar side effects as pornography addiction because both are innate sexual circuits? I thought I heard that they've seen addiction related brain changes in people who chronically over eat. Just for the sake of conversation, do you think that someone who chronically and habitually overeats junk food for 10+ years may need a year of "food rebooting" P) to reverse brain changes?

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First - I don't mean to minimize food addiction, which often manifest as obesity. One could argue that food addiction could lead to more devastating effects that porn addiction - obesity, diabetes, and contributes to everything from arthritis to cancer.

My point is that nothing can be compared to sexual stimuli and reproduction. From an evolutionary point of view - continuation of your genes is the only thing that matters. We are seeing that porn addiction goes beyond limp penis - it can replace relationships, affect cognition and motivation, skew perceptions, and priories, isolate you., alter your sexual template.....on & on.

As for the brain changes of obesity, research has identified  that it causes a decline in dopamine, dopamine D2 receptors, and a decline in frontal cortex metabolism and loss of grey matter. Going on a diet would be rebooting. Studies on obese patients who undergo gastric bypass show they experience dopamine and dopamine receptors rapidly returning to baseline: 6-8 weeks I believe.

Those with obesity will have many other brain changes that do not occur with porn addiction, such as changes in reward circuit insulin and ghrelin receptors.... and so much more.

So too those with PIED must experience many brain changes that do not occur with food addiction.

PS - when will you do another YBR show?

Help me understand why the hell does porn cause penis desensitisation? I mean, food addiction will not cause numbness of your tongue, mouth or stomach.

I understand psychological sensitisation and how your mind becomes numb for certain stuff and needs more of different stuff, but how the hell can nerves in your glans just die like that? It's so weird when you have more sensation in your heel than your penis.

I would somehow understand it if one would masturbate for 10 years using jackhammer and a fork on his penis. But some of us who didn't use death grip so often, because we were already aroused enough by porn... I don't get it.

rocoloco said:

Help me understand why the hell does porn cause penis desensitisation? I mean, food addiction will not cause numbness of your tongue, mouth or stomach.

I understand psychological sensitisation and how your mind becomes numb for certain stuff and needs more of different stuff, but how the hell can nerves in your glans just die like that? It's so weird when you have more sensation in your heel than your penis.

I would somehow understand it if one would masturbate for 10 years using jackhammer and a fork on his penis. But some of us who didn't use death grip so often, because we were already aroused enough by porn... I don't get it.

Click to expand...

First of all, the loss of sensitivity could be caused by death grip: this could lead to changes in the nerve endings or changes to the nerve cells in the spinal cord.

If it is not death grip, and loss of sensitivity is occurring in the brain, no one knows the answer to this question. Can only speculate a bit. The first thing to know is that sex activates it's own separate set of nerve cells withing the reward center (Nucleus accumbens). These nerve cells only overlap about 10% with other natural rewards such as food and water.

But it may be that the erection centers in the hypothalamus, or the brain stem, or elsehwere are affected in complex ways. Here's a simplified picture of the neural mechanisms behind erections - http://yourbrainonporn.com/central-control-of-penile-erection-2011#picture

Keep in mind: many brain circuits are devoted solely to sexual arousal, erection, and penile sensation - and none of these overlap with other rewards. I suspect dozens of receptor types are involved in penile sensation and erection. So much to learn.

Hey guys. I didnt realize this topic was gonna be so blown up. Thank you for chiming in Gary. Im always happy to hear your perspective on this issue. I have been struggling to stop PMO for the past two years but its usually because I havent continually reviewed the information that you've put out there for all of us to access for free. I need to quit for good. My question regarding porn's similarities to chocolate cake have been answered thoroughly. Some times after just one PMO session I feel like my libido suffers for weeks. Youre right, internet porn has a uniquely disastorous effect on the brain especially for teenagers. Im gonna do another 90 days of no m and I will continue the fight to one day be completely free of porn addiction.