Recurrence of betrayal feelings years later

Jrmint

New Member
As a quick background, my husband first learned I disapproved of pornography when he casually mentioned a sex how-to video when we were two months into dating.  He sensed my discomfort and lied and said he had only seen a few things in his life.  He was actually a daily if not multiple times a day pornography user.  We got engaged the next year after many denials, lies and partial disclosures.  He said a lot of extremely hurtful things when it really became a problem in our relationship.  His view of sex was very much warped and justified by that?s how guys are.  We saw a counselor because of our engagement, but it was basically just ?this is how all guys are because they are visual and women just have to accept reality and forgive.? My view of men, love, trust, my self-esteem, my sexual expression became very damaged.  I had so much anxiety I lost my appetite and lost a massive amount of weight.  To the best of my knowledge, my husband quit porn altogether several months after we were engaged.  He came clean (once again I discovered he had been lying) about his use and had had a turning point where it was time to give up all erotica.  Then, I recently learned, when we first had sex he realized how different it was from porn and that he could never actually have sex with someone else, so he really attached to me.  This means a lot to me, except for the low level of distrust that is always there to some degree.

He continued to lie about stupid stuff during the first year of marriage, and my anxiety got so bad I left him for a few weeks and determined to leave him for good if I caught him lying again.  It seems that changed things and he started being honest and not hiding stuff like loaning money to friends.  Anyway, I basically had betrayal PTSD from all the lies and porn and hurtful things he said ? I was very triggered by many things like seeing a sexy advertisement..  I got over this by taking Zoloft and living separately from my husband while pursuing a higher degree, which then led to a very high-paying job and a rediscovery of my self-esteem.  All of that compensated for my loss is sexual self-esteem and an uninhibited sex life.  We had plenty of sex but it was pretty meaningless to me?never an expression of love?just getting off with a safe person.  And then we had a couple of kids and that intense love for them at the baby and toddler stage also was way more important than sex stuff. 

But now?16 years after all of our marital problems related to sex and my tremendous emotional turmoil and weight loss, after I had successfully stuffed all those feelings, I am struggling again!  It started with a friend?s divorce, and I confessed to her some of our early marriage problems.  Eventually I talked to my husband about how intensely he had hurt me, and he had been completely clueless.  He knew it bothered me but didn?t realize that that was what had caused my anxiety and weight loss.  I showed him albums to prove the timeline?weight loss after discovery and weight gain after living separately and going on Zoloft.  I confessed sex had been pretty emotionally empty ever since discovery..  I felt so angry for how much I had given up emotionally and health wise for our relationship.  So mad to discover he had never really thought the porn was a big deal and that I had just over-reacted to the ongoing lies.  Basically, all the feelings I had stuffed cane back up so strong!!! I hate to feel this way again.  I think it has been helpful for him to come to a realization of the harm of porn and the recognition that he was in fact a heavy user and that this isn?t just normal guy stuff.  But now I feel upset again, and he is fed up with my recurrence of anxiety, depression, insecurity.

Any advice?  On one hand, I can?t believe i am having these feelings again after so long, but then on the other hand, maybe it is because no one ever really helped me deal with it the first time around.  I feel conflicted because I don?t want to damage my marriage now over the past but I think it was helpful initially to talk about it.  Any advice?
 

Cant_Wait18

New Member
I feel like I have been experiencing the early years of what you described with my husband who has admitted he has been addicted to porn.
From the start, I have tried to make it clear how hurtful it is. I feel hypocritical saying this since I am still with him, but after reading what you described, I would say that getting away from him was the healthiest thing you could have done for yourself. I, too, have experienced the detrimental affects of what a partner's porn use can do to you. It's not pretty and it changes you... slowly... over time. You change your opinion of yourself. You change how much you trust them and how much you even trust yourself.
My approach is making it crystal clear what his porn habits are doing to me. Spell it out for him. Write him a letter if you must (to initiate the conversation). With liars, it's very difficult to get past things since you never know if they are just covering things up to satisfy you. He needs to know just how deep the wound goes that he made in you with all his lies and his hurtful actions.
It's not just a guy thing. He's delusional and in denial if he thinks that all guys behave that way. Honestly, the only reason why so many guys engage in porn use is because women have been brainwashed that "it's just what guys do. It's not gonna change so just accept it."
NO
Women need to stop accepting the bullshit that men serve us. You TEACH people how to treat you.
You would be fine on your own and he needs to know that his actions have consequences. In this case, the consequences have been an immense detriment in your life. If he doesn't realize that, tell him. Make sure he hears you.
Don't be afraid to damage your marriage by bringing up old feelings if they are heavily weighing on you now. I know it was in your past, but the fact of the matter is that you swallowed some nasty things that happened back then and you never got to sort through them and get past them with him. He put you through a ton of crap back then, the feelings and thoughts you are experiencing now are BECAUSE OF HIS ACTIONS IN THE PAST. Why is it ok for him to do whatever he wants and HURT YOU, but it's not ok for you to talk through what's hurting you? Yes, it might open up old wounds, but you are bringing them up because you want to get past them, right? Not just because you want to condemn him for what he has done.
If you two are not on the same page in communication, he's going to continue thinking everything is fine and dandy while you suffer and melt away... holding all these terrible feelings inside.
You may hurt your marriage either way... if you talk about them of it you don't. The difference is... if you don't talk about them, they will continue to gnaw away at you on the inside (which WILL affect your relationship with him). So you will be the only one suffering and he will have no idea. Now, if you DO choose to talk about it with him, he will know exactly whats going on with you and he will have a choice in front of him: try to help you two get through it, or leave it alone and not care about your feelings (which are all feelings that stem from HIS actions... so he Should take responsibility for at least listening to you and facing the result of what he has done to the one person who she vowed to cherish for the rest of his life).
 

Jrmint

New Member
Thank you for your message.  I have been learning a lot on this site and can make better sense of things now than I could then.  For example, the continued lying about other things even after he stopped lying about porn seems to be somewhat common.  I am also starting to question how my husband handles life in general.

Anyway, my husband and I are no longer talking because he can?t take it anymore.  He thinks I?m tormenting myself unnecessarily by bringing up the past and feels emotionally superior to me.  He believes even if he were lied to multiple times it wouldn?t affect him that much, especially not years laterz. And he is probably right to some extent because he could throw himself into something to get his mind off things.  He is also really mad at me that I took offense when he exclaimed during intimacy that I am WAY sexier than I used to be (because I?m heavier and therefore bustier).  I agree I became dangerously thin at the height of my betrayal trauma and didn?t look good for a couple of years,  it for most of my adult years I have been a thin but healthy weight.  So I was pretty insulted that I was WAY less sexy in his eyes when I had smaller chest and feel again like maybe he was lying about the nice things he used to say about my figure.  And wonder if that meant r Rey other bustier woman was WAY sexier than me.  It?s such a stupid backhanded compliment that could have easily been avoided by not making a comparison, but he says I twist his words.  So again, he thinks I?m emotionally weak.

Anyway, long story short, nothing seems to be better except for my own perception and ability to see our situation for what it is.
 

AppleJack

Active Member
Hi, I've been with my husband 17 years and found out 2.5 years that he had used porn our whole marriage. I get the betrayal trauma, I get it very much.

It sounds to me like perhaps you didn't grieve properly when it happened and now it's resurfaced,  triggered by the divorce which all sounds totally normal, in a truly sucky sort of way. What's compounding it of course is his lack of an empathetic response, likely due to him not dealing with his addiction in a healthy way when he stopped and he more than like now has other unhealthy coping mechanisms, so you being upset is triggering him too but he doesn't know how to cope with bad feelings (his or yours) and neither of you can respond well right now.

A third party might be good, maybe first see someone on your own to help you unpack your feelings in a safe space, as he isn't able right now to provide that, then maybe later the two of you?

If counselling isn't something you want to pursue then the book love you hate the porn might help, I know it's not fresh and a lot of the book is about right now, but he also gets into how support and reassurance is needed long term and how things can resurface. Also has how he can cope. Maybe he's open to reading it with you? or perhaps just read on your own for now.

Whatever you choose just please take from my post that your reaction is completely and totally normal and a sign that some pain is there that needs to get processed.
 

Jrmint

New Member
I have thought about counseling though it looks like counselors experiences with these types of issues are over an hour away.  So I will start with the book though I don?t know if he?ll be willing to read it.


I know I didn?t properly grieve before because I didn?t have anyone really to talk to and because there was so much dishonesty about the porn.  I was also too overwhelmed by rejection and hurt.  It was a very staggered disclosure and he wasn?t even very remorseful until recently.

Also, for a couple of years recently, he almost never complimented me.  He was completely indifferent if I got dressed up and also stopped touching me affectionately outside of sex.  If I complained he said he didn?t notice any change or he just forgot to give me a compliment.  He is making an effort now and has been better with touch, but his compliments are basically just, you look nice.  Maybe it is just job and family stress, but I know this also happens when men have lost interest or are being unfaithful.  I have always given him the benefit of the doubt but have some concern that this isn?t completely innocuous since this seems to have been a sign of trouble in other relationships.

I?m also thinking we need some type of internet monitoring..  It would make me feel more secure. I am afraid that me bringing up all my old feelings and talking about porn could be a trigger for him to start looking again.

So we have a mixture of old trauma being triggered along with some new things that are causing me to have insecurity in the relationship.
 

bob

Respected Member
Jrmint said:
I have thought about counseling though it looks like counselors experiences with these types of issues are over an hour away.

Please don't give up on general counseling if someone will listen and not dismiss the concept of porn addiction. As a male struggling to be who I should be, I found myself talking to a counselor who's expertise was relationships but didn't have a strong background with this. I gave her the book Your Brain on Porn  which I feel was very helpful in educating her in this particular problem.

I would be lost without one on one communication.
 

Emerald Blue

Well-Known Member
Hi Jrmint, and welcome to the Partners forum. It?s never a good feeling to find yourself here in the first place but please be assured that you?re amongst a friendly community of partners who understand exactly what you?ve been through.

The early stages of recovery are the worst. In fact, the first year or thereabouts will probably feel unbearable at times, interspersed with periods of hope, optimism, passion and romance. You can feel full of light and love one day and utterly despairing the next as you process through the emotional storm of coming to terms with your partner?s porn addiction.

Your story has a lot in common with my own. I was aware my partner looked at porn, but I also knew that he wouldn?t stop regardless of how I felt about it. His porn addiction coincided with being connected to the internet at home. Prior to that I?d found a magazine on one occasion only, and at that time I thought that it was just a one-off and no big deal. It turned out he was buying porn semi-frequently, magazines and videos, and also visiting strip bars. When the internet happened, that was it. He was straight on to the porn sites immediately and from that first week to about 15 years later he was using porn regularly, and eventually he was choosing porn over having a sexual relationship with me. I discovered the evidence several times but nothing changed. Eventually I admitted that I was powerless to do anything about it.

He always made sure to leave no traces. He would pretend he didn?t look at porn. When I asked him about once he said he didn?t go to those sites any more. But he was never interested in sex. So, my ?evidence? was a best guess. I tried to initiate but I?d be turned down, or he?d have DE and then ED. For me it was soul destroying to initiate sex, especially after months of no sex at all, and for him to lose his erection and be unable to finish. Classic porn addiction symptoms, but I didn?t know any better at that time.

I went through all that you describe, even the unintentional weight loss. By ?d day? I was depressed, I had no self esteem and I was suffering with body dysmorphia. I had a lot to deal with in my life and one day I realised there was nobody there for me. My husband was not only physically and sexually distant, but emotionally distant too, and had been for a few years. I told him I couldn?t take it any more. His porn habit was making me feel worthless, quite literally ?worth less? than the pixels on his laptop screen. It turned out that his porn habit had reached the point of being a problem for him. He had wanted to stop but couldn?t. So this was his opportunity to quit, and he did.

The after effects were horrendous though. I wanted to know exactly what had been going on for all those years, and of course he lied. His porn habit was a lot more extensive than I had realised. Throughout all that time he believed it was all ?harmless fun? but if it was so harmless, why hide it, why lie about it, why the secrecy? He genuinely believed it would not impact on our relationship. He also believed it was me who wasn?t interested in sex, but in truth he was the one who was never interested, his lack of interest coinciding with when he first had access to online porn.

Like you, I feel that my sexuality and sexual expression was denied throughout the years my husband was addicted to internet pornography. I had to get used to his lack of interest, I had to get used to being turned down and then there was the bad sex ending in loss of erection and being unable to finish. How could I not feel rejected? How could I not feel undesirable? I no longer felt sexual at all. I now know that this was a subconscious protection mechanism. I knew what was going on behind the closed door. I knew it was porn. I also knew that even if I could prove it he still wouldn?t stop. So I tried not to think about it, but my unhappiness manifested in other ways. I don?t think he ever realised the loneliness I felt, right at my very core. When life got tough for me, as it does at times, I realised I was completely alone.

The body image/weight loss issue was another factor. I?ve always been very slight in build, so I didn?t need to lose that much weight to be underweight, but I became emaciated. People were shocked when they saw me. I didn?t feel entitled to take up space, not in my home, not in my relationship, not in the world. I was literally shrinking myself because I felt so insignificant. I hid my body from my husband. I wouldn?t dress or undress in front of him any more because he still wouldn?t notice me if I was standing stark naked in front of him. So hiding my weight loss from him was easy. He couldn?t see what was happening at all.

I had grown up with a very healthy body image and so I was always confident about being in good shape as a young woman. I had the body type that was fashionable and desirable for my generation of women, the tall, slim, narrow waist, long legs, genetic type. This body type typically has small breasts, but that never bothered me. My husband?s porn preference was for very large breasted women, as if it was a fetish. When we were still having sex, he wouldn?t touch my breasts. Or if he did it would be just once and for 1-2 seconds. So, despite all those years of feeling good about myself, realising my husband wasn?t turned on by my breasts was quite upsetting. Then I remembered the men who had admired my body, who wanted to paint me, and so on, and I realised that the man I married didn?t see me in the same way. I don?t know what effect porn had on him, but I can confidently say that porn presents women?s bodies as commodities, as things to pick and choose from, as if there was some ideal that can be assembled out of different parts.

In my own personal recovery, I realise that my body isn?t bolted together from a collection of parts. I?m not a product to be picked and chosen. I?m a living, human being. I deserve respect. My body deserves respect, including respect from myself. My sexuality doesn?t depend on my husband or anyone else for permission to exist either.

There is much more say about objectification in recovery because I believe that a healthy recovery needs to get beyond sexual objectification in the relationship. I think it?s evident in your relationship, Jrmint, from what you say, and it was a factor in the earlier stages of my own relationship recovery. I think it?s inevitable if you have a partner who has been using porn for many years. But it is NOT about becoming a substitute sexual object, or a substitute for porn or ?competing? with porn because that only keeps us in the no-win mindset of self-objectification. We need to respect our bodies for giving us life and giving life to others, but as women we are practically brainwashed into believing we are never going to be good enough as we are when we?re actually fucking amazing to begin with.

There?s also a lot more say about deception and betrayal trauma. Please be in no doubt, your upset at your husband?s deception is perfectly understandable. When we first committed to our relationships, we had no clue about porn addiction especially if we go back to a time before the internet. Even being accepting, even if somewhat reluctantly, I doubt we were doing so from a position of knowledge or genuine agreement. In my relationship, my husband chose to use porn and hide it, and he was very careful about being found out. So how on earth can we agree to what we were never supposed to know about in the first place.

Hope this helps. Xo
 
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