Curious to here some of your opinions on this? Do you think staying away from M is just as important as staying away from P. I went about 16 days without M and that was the longest streak I went since I was a teenager. But after I did it once I started doing it pretty frequently again. Do you guys think this is bad? Im using my thoughts no P
Is restraining from P or M more important?
- Thread starter 21zo
- Start date
DepressedAndOut
Active Member
For me, it's associated with porn. So for me it's a yes.
Porn is definitely worse, but consider when you M what do you think about? If you're fantasizing that's essentially P. M inevitably leads me back to P so I've given it up completely as well. Some people are able to get to the point where they can M without any sexual thoughts or fantasies, just by sensation alone. Regardless your best bet is hard-mode to start of with: no PMO generally for around 90 days (helpful hint: don't get too caught up on the days).
doneatlast
Well-Known Member
A reboot/rewire is best done giving up both P and M.
There is a constant discussion how maintaining M and giving up P stacks up. My own opinion is that it is still auto-erotic, there is no other human being to connect to, so you are not "rewiring" to have real sex. Real sex is about connecting to another human being and creating that genuine bond. You're just kinda trading in one bad thing for a less bad thing; ditching the pixels but keeping the palm. As I said, many will disagree, but I do think it will be near-unanimous that giving it all up is most efficient.
Whether it is a relapse or not is up to you. The important thing is to get right back to chasing your goals. Ming without porn after 16 days certainly isn't as bad as say, PMO and then falling into a binge.
I'm a bigger fan of tracking success by considering how many times you've been triggered and had the ability to say "no", because those are the good, solid rewiring moments. In any given streak you might have one, several, a bunch, or a countless number.
There is a constant discussion how maintaining M and giving up P stacks up. My own opinion is that it is still auto-erotic, there is no other human being to connect to, so you are not "rewiring" to have real sex. Real sex is about connecting to another human being and creating that genuine bond. You're just kinda trading in one bad thing for a less bad thing; ditching the pixels but keeping the palm. As I said, many will disagree, but I do think it will be near-unanimous that giving it all up is most efficient.
Whether it is a relapse or not is up to you. The important thing is to get right back to chasing your goals. Ming without porn after 16 days certainly isn't as bad as say, PMO and then falling into a binge.
I'm a bigger fan of tracking success by considering how many times you've been triggered and had the ability to say "no", because those are the good, solid rewiring moments. In any given streak you might have one, several, a bunch, or a countless number.
21zo said:
This is definitely still fantasy. You are creating scenarios in your head, you are controlling what goes on in those scenarios. Just because it's not some crazy fetish shit doesn't make it not fantasy.
I second this. I don't like the idea of "streaks" because you could go for 3 days/weeks/months/years and then have a relapse and put yourself back to ground zero. Like none of your accomplishments or progress mean anything anymore. Don't understand how that's a useful approach.
@21zo
No. Porn addiction and porn-induced ED are a result of wiring your arousal to pixels, becoming addicted to the behavior of seeking and searching novel artificial stimulation. Although, some rebooters do report staying away from M helps during the reboot process.
The following is from our Reboot Basics post:
"To masturbate, or not to masturbate, that is the question"
As stated, we have only two "rules': 1) Stop using artificial sexual stimuli, and 2) Do what works for you. Many guys have discovered it is helpful to eliminate or drastically reduce masturbation/orgasm during a reboot. Possible reasons to drastically reduce or eliminate masturbation during a reboot:
1. If you have porn-induced ED, your brain is saying: "I can't do this anymore". Understand that your urge to masturbate is not true libido - you are addicted to porn, or your sexuality is conditioned to pixels. If you need porn to masturbate, or have a partially erect penis when you do, you are not horny or in need of "release". You are addicted and seeking a fix: a temporary dopamine high.
2.The majority of men with porn-induced ED need to drastically reduce masturbation and orgasm. When you have a pathology, you usually need to do more than just eliminate the cause - in this case porn use. You don't generally break a leg by putting weight on it. However, once it's broken you have to cast it, use crutches and eliminate walking while you heal. Same goes for porn-induced ED. You don't have to wear a cast, but you need to give your brain time to heal, free of intense sexual stimulation.
Masturbation and porn use are tightly wired together. Like Pavlov's dog that salivated when it heard the bell, you will start drooling for porn when masturbating. Time is needed to weaken the neural connections intertwining wanking and watching.
Recovery may be easier without masturbation/orgasm. Remove masturbation/orgasm from the equation and most guys experience a sharp decline in sexual desire, we call the flatline. (See: "HELP! I quit porn, but my potency, genital size, and libido are decreasing")
When you also eliminate orgasm/masturbation, not just porn, it seems to precipitate a more complete and deeper withdrawal, and thus healing.
Masturbation and orgasm strongly reactivate cravings to use porn. It has been surprising to witness that most men have an easier time eliminating masturbation than they do porn. For most guys with porn addiction, masturbation is simply not that interesting without porn, and they are amazed to discover that porn, not their libido, was driving their constant search for relief.
Caveat: All the above is based on the current feedback given to us by successful rebooters. It is subject to change.
Caveat 2: Some guys with porn-induced ED need to orgasm in order to jump-start their brains after a reboot or extended flatline
http://legacy.rebootnation.org/index.php?topic=67.0
No. Porn addiction and porn-induced ED are a result of wiring your arousal to pixels, becoming addicted to the behavior of seeking and searching novel artificial stimulation. Although, some rebooters do report staying away from M helps during the reboot process.
The following is from our Reboot Basics post:
"To masturbate, or not to masturbate, that is the question"
As stated, we have only two "rules': 1) Stop using artificial sexual stimuli, and 2) Do what works for you. Many guys have discovered it is helpful to eliminate or drastically reduce masturbation/orgasm during a reboot. Possible reasons to drastically reduce or eliminate masturbation during a reboot:
1. If you have porn-induced ED, your brain is saying: "I can't do this anymore". Understand that your urge to masturbate is not true libido - you are addicted to porn, or your sexuality is conditioned to pixels. If you need porn to masturbate, or have a partially erect penis when you do, you are not horny or in need of "release". You are addicted and seeking a fix: a temporary dopamine high.
2.The majority of men with porn-induced ED need to drastically reduce masturbation and orgasm. When you have a pathology, you usually need to do more than just eliminate the cause - in this case porn use. You don't generally break a leg by putting weight on it. However, once it's broken you have to cast it, use crutches and eliminate walking while you heal. Same goes for porn-induced ED. You don't have to wear a cast, but you need to give your brain time to heal, free of intense sexual stimulation.
Masturbation and porn use are tightly wired together. Like Pavlov's dog that salivated when it heard the bell, you will start drooling for porn when masturbating. Time is needed to weaken the neural connections intertwining wanking and watching.
Recovery may be easier without masturbation/orgasm. Remove masturbation/orgasm from the equation and most guys experience a sharp decline in sexual desire, we call the flatline. (See: "HELP! I quit porn, but my potency, genital size, and libido are decreasing")
When you also eliminate orgasm/masturbation, not just porn, it seems to precipitate a more complete and deeper withdrawal, and thus healing.
Masturbation and orgasm strongly reactivate cravings to use porn. It has been surprising to witness that most men have an easier time eliminating masturbation than they do porn. For most guys with porn addiction, masturbation is simply not that interesting without porn, and they are amazed to discover that porn, not their libido, was driving their constant search for relief.
Caveat: All the above is based on the current feedback given to us by successful rebooters. It is subject to change.
Caveat 2: Some guys with porn-induced ED need to orgasm in order to jump-start their brains after a reboot or extended flatline
http://legacy.rebootnation.org/index.php?topic=67.0