Who wants to let go of such pleasure? Maybe me

I want to stop fapping to porn. But obviously I don't. Or I wouldn't be here. If I really wanted to stop then I'd stop, right? So since I don't stop, I don't want to stop. But if I don't want to stop, why the heck am I becoming active on these forums? The action says more than the confused ideas I think.

I've been reading the YBOP porn book daily for a few months, plus listened to the videos about it for a while. My life has definitely become more negative in the last year I think. I'm not sure how much of it is porn related. I've found that in the week after I stop porn for a while, I seem to feel more energetic. Other times, using the porn doesn't seem to bother me. But is that just because I've got used to the lethargy and porn-adjusted brain?

I remember a period  of a few years, perhaps 3 or 4 years ago when I didn't use porn. It was a tremendously productive period of my life. Now I'm using porn regularly and my life isn't going as well.

It makes sense to me that if the brain is being hit with immense pleasure every day or every few days, then other things will pale in comparison. OK, slightly disgusting bit of the post coming up now...

Through the use of lubricant, tumblr gifs, posts that inspire a combination of taboo and self-loathing, and hypnotic sounds I have achieved levels of intense pleasure that nothing in the rest of my life can match. It annoys me that the world might be like that: that life is such that by achieving fantastic easy glorious pleasure it can actually make life worse. But I have the strangest feeling that stopping porn will be great for me and help to turn my life around - or turn me around - which is kind of the same thing.

The bottom line is: I don't want to stop. Otherwise, why would I be writing this post? I'd just stop. But if I don't want to stop, why am I writing this post? I used to believe in the concept of porn addiction and used that to stay stopped for a while. Now I don't like that concept. I think it is a choice that I use porn. But I am choosing porn over a life I'd prefer. Why would I do that? Because porn is easy, and humans are lazy.

Anyway, I may or may not use porn tonight. But I will probably post tomorrow.

I understand this.

Look, don't see this as a life choice you must commit to as a cult, this is a tool. Be damn serious about a reboot so you can see the effects of it (otherwise you will not know if it is for you or not) but don't think years ahead and model your life after all of this. This is a great place for information and support. Good lucj with your reboot, buddy

Thanks for your response. I'm not quite ready to begin the reboot yet if I'm honest. I'm hoping that by journaling, or perhaps participating in the forum, it might motivate me to begin it. And then once I've begun it, the forums will motivate me to continue. I really appreciate someone taking the time to respond - and find it encouraging. So I guess this is day 2 of my participation, but not of my reboot! Maybe tomorrow I'll read some other posts on the forum. Thanks again. "See you" guys tomorrow.

An interesting thing happened this morning. I used porn last night and then I woke up this morning feeling pretty sh*t and after a few minutes started to think I was feeling sh*t because of using the porn. Then that reminded me of all the times I had woken up feeling bad and thinking it was probably because of porn the day before. And then I remembered why I'd been so keen to stop before, and where that little part of me that had made me post a few days ago had probably come from. I also noticed the rings under my eyes in the mirror in the bathroom and that reminded me of another thing that made me want to stop porn: that I was losing so much sleep and it made me look older - another thing that makes me feel less attractive to women. And that then reminded me of the lists I used to make myself of reasons to stop using porn, and that I'd tell myself to read each day to remind me. Writing this post itself at the beginning reminded me of the times I woke up feeling better because I hadn't used porn for a few days.

But it's been weird that recently I lost that connection. It felt like I'd had some days where I'd woken up feeling ok in spite of porn. And I'd had a great night out on Saturday chatting to women.

Anyway - the above things have given me a tiny sliver of feeling that I might give up fapping. It's also given me more to journal about, because I'd forgotten how much I'd written about this stuff to myself. So I might post some of it over the next few days. Anyway, I'll probably post again tomorrow morning. 

Thanks so much for your reply Chip. I didn't use porn last night, and am just posting to thank you, and to say that, as part of this journaling.

Another evening without porn. Second I think. I have an odd feeling inside. I think I can tell that I'm glad about not doing it. I'm thinking about the weekend and if I pick someone up I'm more likely to be able to "perform". Anyway, I thought people might like to see the first half of a list I made for myself 6 months ago to read each night to remind myself of why I wanted to stop:

"Reading on Effects and possible effects of porn:

Hangover:
I seem to get an emotional hangover on a number of mornings after doing it.

General mood:
When I stopped last time I just felt so much better and energetic and happier in my life generally. When I do it there is a general malaise and tiredness and depression and self-disliking that pervades things, especially the mornings.

Erection:
After I've masturbated for a while, especially with lubricant, it starts to get harder and harder to get an erection. I'm worried it will stop me from getting erections if I find someone I love. Plus how can the sex or their body ever be as good as what I masturbate to?

Normality:
Simply put: masturbating for 1.5-2 hours is not normal. And that's what I end up doing sometimes. It suggests something may be wrong.

Time:
I did it for two hours that Saturday night. Makes me lose sleep on Fridays and Saturdays. Tired f*cks up everything - creativity, fatherhood, bothering to do other things, etc. Makes my eyes look old.

Replacements:
If I don't do it, it forces me to find other things to replace my loneliness and time: meeting a woman, contacting friends and family, tidying house, etc. Things that make me and others make me feel good about myself. Plus it motivates me to get successful, which will make me more sexually attractive!

Pleasure sense warping
A possible negative is perspective warping. These are my peak pleasure experiences. Nothing compares to them. They are the pleasure height of the week. But they have no "content" as such. There is no other person.

Not find marriage or family
They may reduce my desire to be with another person. So I don't bother finding someone to be with and have a family. If I hadn't done them I might have been with someone by now.

Shame and Self-esteem
I am ashamed of them. If I said to someone what I m/b'd to they'd be very embarrassed.

Loneliness and self-hatred
They may increase my sense of aloneness, and encourage a dislike of women and of myself as a man.

My Family
They make me less of a good father probably. More likely to pass on negative attitudes to my child."

One thing to consider is that when you get to the severe PIED stage, you are going to even have trouble getting a boner watching porn. A lot of men have experienced this. I did. I was using all my favorites, and searching all my favorite scenarios, and I would just sit there stroking a limp dick. Finally after a long time, when all the conditions were right, I was able to get enough of a boner (maybe 40%) to orgasm. It was incredibly pathetic.

So, I don't think there really is a choice of 'no porn' vs a 'happy with no-human contact and a lot of porn lifestyle'. Eventually the porn will betray you. Better to get serious and fight your way out of this.

Good luck buddy.

Thanks for your reply Phase2. It's encouraging to get other peoples' inputs. Yes that did start to happen to me too.
Another evening without pn. Quite a relief. There are other things going on that are getting me down, which is unfortunate, because it means I'm not "enjoying" the freedom from pn as much as I have when I've done this a couple of times in the past. But it must be true that it's good to stop. Otherwise why would I have gone to the trouble of writing that document in my previous post (I'll post the second half of it later maybe)? Why would I have downloaded all those podcasts / soundtracks from Youtube videos related to YBOP, and then bought the YBOP book? I have no "moral" qualms about using pn anymore, so I don't think this is guilt driven. Anyway, I wish I had the stronger convictions that I've had in my few attempted previous stops. But I must have a deeper down conviction, or I wouldn't be doing this.
I've upped my internet dating rate I think, which - if that's to do with me stopping pn the last few days - is a good thing. I'll post tomorrow.

Another night without p*rn. Well technically that's incorrect - I couldn't sleep so I'm awake at 3am writing this. But I know I won't do it tonight. I don't know what to write today. There's a lot of things that new rebooters probably write about, but it's pointless me writing those. I've had long periods of not using p*rn before I found YBOP, and I've had multiple attempts at stopping since. So I've heard myself tell the same old story to myself again and again, and don't need to tell it again here.

Something I've been trying to get across to myself and writing this is the subtle nature of my desire to stop. It's like an iceberg - 90% hidden below the waterline. It's like being a bad situation and your subconscious knows you shouldn't be in it and makes you feel miserable until you admit it to yourself. It's like the effect of p*rn on me is perhaps so huge - perhaps has distorted my life for the last 2-3 years so much - that it's too much to take in, so I just hide it. But I get little clues from my deeper mind every so often. Reminders of how much I want to stop. Not like the remorseful p*rn hangover mornings, but just a subtle sense of "if you can stop it's going to change your life". Not just improve my life, but potentially change everything.

Anyway, that's my post. Perhaps I should explain, the reason I'm posting regularly is because the committment I made to myself was not a committment to stop p*rn, but to post daily. I'll post again tomorrow.

So after a few days of posting here, I was in a great mood yesterday. Took me totally by surprise. I'd had some other good news that day, but I vaguely sensed that my extreme good mood was related to having stopped my p*rn for a few days. Maybe it has, maybe it hasn't - but it's suspiciously possible

I've always loved using p*rn at the weekends, especially as a single guy. A treat on a Saturday, and a way to fill up the time. Or even late on a Friday. Last night I thought about it a couple of times, but didn't. It vaguely felt like my not doing it was related to this forum posting. Maybe it is, maybe it's not. But I will keep on posting, a little voice is telling me. Plus I've got the reminder of things I wrote months ago. Here's the second part of reading that I wrote months and months ago. It was designed to remind me why not to use p*rn. You can see the first part here http://legacy.rebootnation.org/index.php?topic=9845.msg101231#msg101231

"Reading on Effects and possible effects of porn: (ctd)
...
Falling in Love
How can I fall in love and be with a woman if I hate women I want. My fantasies either involve women being abused, or me...being abused (can't beat 'em, so join 'em).
...
Creativity, fame and riches
Their peak joy effect may reduce my creativity and drive (c.f. boxer not having sex etc) and why excel at life if I can get it in porn?

Computer cleanness
Risk of something coming up on computer during presentation, or something being accidentally posted.

Spiritual life
May damage my relationship with my spiritual life. Risk my mental stability.

Manliness
Imagining (some of the fantasies I imagine) may reduce my manliness and comfort with other men, make me feel even more inferior and self-hating.

ED
Imagine meeting the girl of my dreams, and I can't get erection first 3 times we have sex. She'll think I'm an old man who can't get erections and leave me.

Day to Day achievement
After a period of stopping I seem to accelerate up to full speed again in terms of mood and desire to achieve...things, and be part of life and a family etc. Looking at stuff seems to take me under for a couple of weeks perhaps, and then it takes 3 days to come out of it again, so if I go back under by the weekend, I'm only running at full speed for 3 days out of 20? And I am 45 and need to make professional progress before 50, plus have a child (if I'm going to have one) in the next couple of years perhaps.

Still want to do it?
Go ahead, but read this again tomorrow night before bed, and Saturday and Sunday lunchtimes."

Just a quick post to say, that I'm in a typical Saturday frame of mind. Eaten some food, home alone, what to do with the rest of my time? I always disappointed and lonely after eating some lovely food, and what better thing to do than use p*rn and fall asleep then meet up with friends later? So I'm planning to use p*rn. Well I'm not admitting to myself I'm planning to, on some level. But the truth is that I'm seriously considering it on a subconscious level. I can tell. I know it's probably just "the dopamine calling" and all that. But the thought just lights up my Saturday, just the thought of it. This morning the thought didn't attract me. Now, it does. Anyway, the one thing is, I've committed to post here each day. So I thought I'd put an extra post on today, just to say I'm thinking of using p*rn. Not to ask people to reply or for encouragement, but because my instincts tell me that if I post honestly and regularly, it might help. I'll post again tomorrow.

One of the first things people learn to do when battling an addiction is to change things up. You are in a clear pattern here: eating, no plans, porn.

If you really want to succeed, you must completely disrupt this. Change your life, man. Eat out, have a plan to go for a long walk, a museum, meet friends early, invite someone over, go away for the weekend, train for a marathon, join a gym, volunteer, etc. It's a very simple, very crucial part of breaking the cycle.

You should try it. I'm not sure you have the fight in you, honestly, but if you do, you need to really go to battle and win this. Otherwise, why bother?

Good luck man.

Thanks. Yes, it is the "no plan" thing. I think I've deliberately left a gap in the afternoons so I can have "no plan", so I can use porn. Once again not consciously as such, lying to myself. I know it seems like i have not fight. But it's just that I've tried fighting before and failed what seems like a lot of times. I hope it doesn't bug people that I still post a journal even though I have little fight in me. I did use porn yesterday just after my post - the session straight after was wonderful. The session this morning was not. And I know that I'm only feeling the beginning of the ill-effects, and that it will get much worse. Hence my continuing to post.

As I say, I hope it doesn't bug people that I keep posting even though I've not got much fight. The posting is something to try. I've also seen a couple of things, I think yesterday:

1. When the urge comes on, it's not just an urge, but a change in philosophy. 4 days before porn was bad. Today, it's not so bad. 4 days before it was life changing problem. Today life is different. So overcoming the urge, is actually ignoring what my philosophy of life feels like in that moment.

2. Using porn won't feel bad immediately, in fact it may feel great for a bit. So stopping isn't just stopping because I feel bad, but stopping when I feel good, because in the past the good always goes bad if I keep doing it.

Thanks so much for responding, I do appreciate it. I do LISTEN to what people say. I will post again tomorrow.

2. Using porn won't feel bad immediately, in fact it may feel great for a bit. So stopping isn't just stopping because I feel bad, but stopping when I feel good, because in the past the good always goes bad if I keep doing it.

This is a great way to put the truth that porn always lets us down.  Thank you.

You're welcome. Glad I may have helped somebody.

I used p*rn again last night, which I kind of knew I would. I'm fine with this, but of course I'm not really fine or I wouldn't have continued my commitment to post here each day. I believe I will stop. I believe this will help me. But the truth is that last night's session was one of the best ever, and hasn't left me feeling bad. In fact it's left me feeling "great" and looking forward to doing it again.

But I suspect I've had a sort of change of personality. The self that's happy I did it and looking forward to doing it again, feels kind of fuzzy and not the self that I think is really me. I mean it could be me, but if I put in perspective what this self is glorifying, it doesn't make so much sense.

This self is glorifying a solo isolated act and attitude, that makes me want to stay indoors and look at computer screens and getting involved in that whole culture. If I died and all I'd achieved is what this self thinks is so important, I suspect I'd hate me.

I think the problem is: it is a self alone. And I can't seem to sustain that. Maybe I could this time? But then I still need to meet with friends and have a life. So how do I do that, and maintain this isolated "perverted" self?

And of course, there's the pleasure thing. If I lose myself in the intense pleasure of orgasm and edging all the time, what space will be left to be motivated to do anything else?

I suspect that if I continued in this vein over the next few days, I will start to feel the same old sense that I'm being damaged and abused by myself, and return to the cycle of wanting to stop.

Thank you. I will post again tomorrow.

as you think of all the 'benefits' of PMO remember yoru words that the "good" always turns bad.
Sounds like you want to control the PMO, I speak as someone who feels that they have lost a lot of blessing from long term practice of O and a bit of PMO -- I have come to the conclusion that I want to go cold turkey.  For me there is no in-between.

You know what RS, I have this horrible thought that I may have lost a lot of blessing through p*rn. What a horrible thought, to think that I've wasted years of this precious life because of staring at pictures, and not even realised it. I hope not. But I suspect I could have. And I suspect I will do if I continue. There isn't an in between for me either. It's not that I don't want to stop, it's that I don't want to sacrifice the part of myself that wants to keep going. God that sounds so over-analytical!

I did use p*rn again last night. Afterwards and first thing this morning I felt quite abused by myself. It involved paraphernalia as well. Then I kind of had a moment this morning when I wanted to feel abused, because I'm so pathetic. But that's reduced as I've read your response and posted here. I feel annoyed with myself for posting here when I've not made a commitment to stop. But I just wondered if not doing this alone might make me want to stop more. I worry my repeated posts about failure might be bringing this forum section down!

I am not miserable, I just sense a vast part and potential of my life slipping away from me. All the things I deeply want, all the feelings I could deeply have, moving away with me hardly noticing.

I probably won't use p*rn tonight, as I'm seeing my family tomorrow, and it feels like an abuse of our intimacy for me to do that the night before. I'd like to not use it until after the weekend really. As a first step. I'd like to stop using it at all (read my first ever post to see what I mean by that )

Anyway, I was impressed to see your 9 days, I know how great 5 days feels to me, so 9 days must be a real achievement. Maybe I'll add a counter. I'll post again tomorrow.

One day at a time brother.... One day at a time!

Middleagedos,

I read a lot of self-loathing in what you say and I think this justifies your own self-abuse.

If you know you are doing things that cause you to not like yourself, there must be a "payoff" to continuing this behaviour.  I'm not talking about immediate payoff either like getting the dopamine fix from PMO. 

A person does things to reinforce what they feel they really deserve. 

For myself I know if I isolate myself too much and spend too much time in my own head, I get into this place very easily. I notice it when I start doing it and then I do something to break the cycle as someone else suggested like going for a walk or being around other people, even strangers.  It does not have to be people you know.  I think the key thing here is CONNECTION.  I find getting connected to others is very healing.

Thanks RecoveryJunkie and Delirium. You're right Delirium, about all of those things, I reckon. I won't say anything else for now, will just process it. I didn't use p*rn last night. I will post again tomorrow. Thanks.