Author Topic: First post: advice on how to safely use porn?  (Read 425 times)

thechemist

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First post: advice on how to safely use porn?
« on: November 11, 2017, 12:27:21 PM »
Hi, this is my first post so maybe I'll write something about me and the reason why I am on this forum. I'm 24 and a couple of months ago I realized how badly my porn habits were affecting my life. For more than a year I would post pictures of my girlfriend in forums designed to do so, with the intent of getting obscene and degrading comments. I don't know why the hell that turned me on, but after stumbling upon a video about the book Your Brain On Porn (and after reading the book) I think I figured out my messed up brain and his tricks: the only sexual partner I have ever had is my girlfriend (we've been together since we were 16), and my heavily porn-sensitized brain just put the two things together: I was aroused by online pornography and by my girlfriend --> why not put the two things together, for an even more potent stimulus? I think that getting other people to sexually make comments about my gf and fantasizing about cuckolding etc. was my brain's way of "pornify" her and getting the most possible amount of pleasure.

That being said, being captured in this shameful spiral was the only really bad thing that online porn did to me: I've never experienced ED or stuff like that... and this leads me to my present situation: I have not been watching porn for the last month (one time, a couple weeks ago, I relapsed) and I have to say that I'm feeling better with myself. The thing is: I'm not completely convinced that porn shouldn't have a (tiny) space in my life. Maybe this is just my brain trying to persuade me to give it its dopamine dose, but follow me in this analogy: porn is like junk food. It creates a supernormal stimulus, it is addicting and it is really bad for you. That fact of the matter is that I enjoy junk food... once in a while. I am completely able to eat junk food only every two weeks or so, maybe even once a month. I enjoy clean foods more, that is my default, but sometimes I give myself a treat. In this way, I think I'm able to enjoy food (and life) a little more than someone who, if he just smells french fries, will start binge eating, regaining all the body fat that he lost with months of sacrifice... would't you agree?
Well, I'd like to be the slim and fit guy of porn, too. I would like to be able to watch it in a sporadic, healthy way (when I can't see my girlfriend for a whole week!!). As I said, I'm completely aware that this might just be my brain tricking me to fall in that awful spiral again just for a dose of dopamine... but at the same time I think that my reasoning is not completely bs.

Furthermore, in reading Your Brain On Porn, I've come to understand that there are actually safer, healthier ways of watching porn: not edging for ten minutes, having just one tab open, not hopping from one video to the next in search of continuous novelty, maybe saving a couple of videos and just watching dose several times... etc. What do you think, people? I know that there will be lot of guys trying to tell me that everything I wrote was bs and I'm just trying to rationalize my way back to porn addiction (maybe porn damaged your life even more than mine, hence your strict no-porn, maybe even no-masturbation program) but please try to keep an open mind.

Wow, it came out as a long post. I apologize for any grammar error, english is not my first language. Any help, idea or feedback will be greatly appreciated.

edit: I really appreciate every feedback, but the thing I'm really searching for is scientific evidence (/scientific speculation) about possible healthier ways to consume porn: while Your Brain On Porn does a magnificent job at explaining why and how porn can alter your brain, it doesn't say anything about the possible healthier ways to consume pornography as of today, while at the same time it hints they exist.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 04:37:38 AM by thechemist »

William

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Re: First post: advice on how to safely use porn?
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2017, 12:53:23 PM »
While I would not consider all porn use "dangerous", I would consider no porn use to be "safe."

When we use porn, we should be very self aware of what we are doing.  We use porn to give ourselves a dopamine high.  For some, that dopamine high becomes addictive.  Most addicts have to have a reason to quit, or, they would not quit.  I think not wanting, or allowing yourself, to post pics of your girlfriend on a forum to get degrading or obscene comments sounds like a good reason to quit.

I will tell you the same as I tell anyone else. Do the hard 90, no porn, no M, no O, no PMO, no p substitutes, and as few sexual thoughts as you can, for 90 days.  THEN, ask yourself, how much do I want, or need (truth, you don't "need" it at all) artificial sexual stimulation in your life to boost a dopamine high.  It may be that you will determine you will have it in your life, but asking the question before you get clean is a formula for failure.  An addict will always find a way of talking themselves into using "just a little."  And, that "just a little" often becomes "just a little" multiple times, for hours, daily.  You need to get clean of the addiction before you have that conversation with yourself. 

Much love.

Will I AM.

PS.  Welcome to the forum.  I hope you find something here that helps.

yesyes1234

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Re: First post: advice on how to safely use porn?
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2017, 01:38:13 PM »
I would recommend staying away from for a while as well. You will notice the difference and then you can negotiate with yourself what the risk/reward is if you don't consider yourself an addict. However your destructive behavior points in the direction of addiction or p caused rewiring of your sexual system.

But generally it seems like you've got a lot of the theory down like restricting novelty and the chaser effect. But also I would say photos > gifs > video and bikini shots > nudes > p photos. I think it's basically just about minimizing it as much as possible.

If you have experienced the chaser effect like you hint at in your text, I do however think P has grown some unhealthy pathways in your brain and they will never go away. They will only grow weaker with abstinence.

Best of luck!

klarson27

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Re: First post: advice on how to safely use porn?
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2017, 04:13:45 PM »
There may be “safer and healthy”ways of watching porn.

But for me personally,  I know the impact and effect it’s had on my life and my life is much better without it.   My relationships are deeper,  I’m not objectifying and fantasizing about people and I have more energy to learn about me.

I don’t believe there’s anything healthy about porn and my life is better without it.

That’s all I can speak for.. good luck and if you decide to use porn and are able to lead a healthy and normal sex life then you don’t have a problem after all!  I’m not judging but posting pictures of a long time girlfriend for others to objectify doesn’t sound like a healthy view of sex and intimacy.

But I don’t judge :)

Good luck


thechemist

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Re: First post: advice on how to safely use porn?
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2017, 06:11:46 AM »
While I would not consider all porn use "dangerous", I would consider no porn use to be "safe."

When we use porn, we should be very self aware of what we are doing.  We use porn to give ourselves a dopamine high.  For some, that dopamine high becomes addictive.  Most addicts have to have a reason to quit, or, they would not quit.  I think not wanting, or allowing yourself, to post pics of your girlfriend on a forum to get degrading or obscene comments sounds like a good reason to quit.

I will tell you the same as I tell anyone else. Do the hard 90, no porn, no M, no O, no PMO, no p substitutes, and as few sexual thoughts as you can, for 90 days.  THEN, ask yourself, how much do I want, or need (truth, you don't "need" it at all) artificial sexual stimulation in your life to boost a dopamine high.  It may be that you will determine you will have it in your life, but asking the question before you get clean is a formula for failure.  An addict will always find a way of talking themselves into using "just a little."  And, that "just a little" often becomes "just a little" multiple times, for hours, daily.  You need to get clean of the addiction before you have that conversation with yourself. 

Much love.

Will I AM.

PS.  Welcome to the forum.  I hope you find something here that helps.

I am not familiar with your jargon: what do M, O, or PMO mean?? :D
by the way I totally agree with you, and I'm just planning ahead: at least 3 months without every kind of porn or porn substitute are absolutely necessary, but then I'd like to consider my options, and I'd like to be able to use porn sporadically as a temporary substitute for sex... "junk food" once in a while... you know what I mean?

yesyes1234

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Re: First post: advice on how to safely use porn?
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2017, 07:39:57 AM »
M = Masturbation
O = Orgasm
PMO = Orgasm by masturbating to porn

One think to keep in mind is, it's probably a lot harder to only use occasionally than to just cut it out completely - even if you are not an addict (if you are there is no comparison). Maybe you can because you have a gf.

aquarius25

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Re: First post: advice on how to safely use porn?
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2017, 08:53:37 AM »
I am sure this won't be a popular opinion but I have to ask the question as a partner......Does your GF know that you have posted these picture of her? Or was this done without her knowledge? I ask because you really need to think about these actions and just how much objectification has been going on. I believe that maybe porn has had a bigger impact on you than you realize. Just because you aren't experiencing ED doesn't mean it isn't impacting you in big ways. Clearly, it has affected your moral code.

klarson27

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Re: First post: advice on how to safely use porn?
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2017, 11:37:39 AM »
I agree.. and I think you are kidding yourself if you think you can use porn without a problem..

thechemist

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Re: First post: advice on how to safely use porn?
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2017, 04:05:23 PM »
There may be “safer and healthy”ways of watching porn.

But for me personally,  I know the impact and effect it’s had on my life and my life is much better without it.   My relationships are deeper,  I’m not objectifying and fantasizing about people and I have more energy to learn about me.

I don’t believe there’s anything healthy about porn and my life is better without it.

That’s all I can speak for.. good luck and if you decide to use porn and are able to lead a healthy and normal sex life then you don’t have a problem after all!  I’m not judging but posting pictures of a long time girlfriend for others to objectify doesn’t sound like a healthy view of sex and intimacy.

But I don’t judge :)

Good luck

No it is not healthy, it was really really f*d up!! I am not claiming that porn didn't alter my brain, I am saying that I'd really like to be able to become "immune" to its worst effects... just as I am "immune" to junk food and overeating. In my view of things, overcoming addiction in the most complete way would mean being able to enjoy something once in a while (knowing perfectly that this "enjoyment" should not replace or smother REAL life pleasures), without having to worry about it at all... wouldn't you agree?

thechemist

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Re: First post: advice on how to safely use porn?
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2017, 04:14:04 PM »
I am sure this won't be a popular opinion but I have to ask the question as a partner......Does your GF know that you have posted these picture of her? Or was this done without her knowledge? I ask because you really need to think about these actions and just how much objectification has been going on. I believe that maybe porn has had a bigger impact on you than you realize. Just because you aren't experiencing ED doesn't mean it isn't impacting you in big ways. Clearly, it has affected your moral code.

Hi, yes it was done without her knowing. Just for the record (this does not justify my actions, but I think it should be said), I've always posted public pictures (taken from facebook etc.), I've never posted private pictures or naked pictures.
Believe me I know the extent of my problem, that's why I am here. I just think that regular porn, if it is possible to use it without getting into a spiral, could become as I said a very small part of my life, without ruining it, and without ruining the life of people near me.

klarson27

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Re: First post: advice on how to safely use porn?
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2017, 04:44:56 PM »
What about the lives of the people in the porn industry?

It’s the demand for porn that creates the need that these people fill,  some of which are sold in to the industry and/or treated like sex slaves.

How about the objectification that porn encourages?

There are plenty of moral reasons to not use porn too.. I’d like to think that some of these reasons are promoted here as well rather than just being a resource for guys who can’t get an erection to a real person.

yesyes1234

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Re: First post: advice on how to safely use porn?
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2017, 09:23:37 PM »
Quote
In my view of things, overcoming addiction in the most complete way would mean being able to enjoy something once in a while (knowing perfectly that this "enjoyment" should not replace or smother REAL life pleasures), without having to worry about it at all... wouldn't you agree?

This strikes me as a big misconception about how addiction works. Overcoming is not an issue of adopting a new, healthier attitude to your habit, it's about minimizing the chemical changes in your brain. Your attitude is there because of these changes, and they will never go away - they will reemerge with close to full force every time you relapse. If you become an addict, that's it. It should be zero tolerance from there on.

You will probably experience cravings or an intensified desire now that you try to quit, but it will get better and less intense with time. The desire will however return close to it's original strength after each slip up.

In case you haven't heard of it yet, most p addicts on here go through a literal withdrawal face, where they experience a large variety of emotional pain, and it will happen every time they fall back in. That is why addicts can't turn back. 

Another issue with the occasional attitude is, that it is very hard to grasp exactly how the consequences play out in your brain. While you might feel fine in the beginning, the changes are often slowly increasing and will take place over weeks and sometimes months. The delay between the initial reaction and the real consequences often plays trick with the addicts mind, who has to deal with an increasing desire to use just one more time.

Every story on here from a recovered addict who ended back at the bottom starts with the "just a peek", "only once" etc.

yesyes1234

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Re: First post: advice on how to safely use porn?
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2017, 09:28:51 PM »
One of the reasons why p addiction is different from other forms of addiction like smoking or internet addiction, is because we have a separate sexual system in our brains. Because of evolutionary reasons it is incredibly strong and that is where the brain alterations happen in p addiction. It's the same system that drugs like heroin and cocaine target which is why they are so powerful drugs.

thechemist

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Re: First post: advice on how to safely use porn?
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2017, 04:25:51 AM »
Quote
In my view of things, overcoming addiction in the most complete way would mean being able to enjoy something once in a while (knowing perfectly that this "enjoyment" should not replace or smother REAL life pleasures), without having to worry about it at all... wouldn't you agree?

This strikes me as a big misconception about how addiction works. Overcoming is not an issue of adopting a new, healthier attitude to your habit, it's about minimizing the chemical changes in your brain. Your attitude is there because of these changes, and they will never go away - they will reemerge with close to full force every time you relapse. If you become an addict, that's it. It should be zero tolerance from there on.

You will probably experience cravings or an intensified desire now that you try to quit, but it will get better and less intense with time. The desire will however return close to it's original strength after each slip up.

In case you haven't heard of it yet, most p addicts on here go through a literal withdrawal face, where they experience a large variety of emotional pain, and it will happen every time they fall back in. That is why addicts can't turn back. 

Another issue with the occasional attitude is, that it is very hard to grasp exactly how the consequences play out in your brain. While you might feel fine in the beginning, the changes are often slowly increasing and will take place over weeks and sometimes months. The delay between the initial reaction and the real consequences often plays trick with the addicts mind, who has to deal with an increasing desire to use just one more time.

Every story on here from a recovered addict who ended back at the bottom starts with the "just a peek", "only once" etc.

I really appreciate your opinion and the time you took to write this long reply to my post, however I'd like to be referred to some scientific proof of what you claim (the supposed perennial changes in one's brain that are just waiting for a slip up to screw you big time). This is the general intention of my post too: while Your Brain On Porn does a magnificent job at explaining why and how porn can alter your brain, it doesn't say anything about the possible healthier ways to consume pornography, while at the same time it hints they exist.

thechemist

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Re: First post: advice on how to safely use porn?
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2017, 04:33:21 AM »
What about the lives of the people in the porn industry?

It’s the demand for porn that creates the need that these people fill,  some of which are sold in to the industry and/or treated like sex slaves.

How about the objectification that porn encourages?

There are plenty of moral reasons to not use porn too.. I’d like to think that some of these reasons are promoted here as well rather than just being a resource for guys who can’t get an erection to a real person.

That is certainly a part of the equation, something that should be considered too. But it is also true that this can be said about almost anything, really. And if you decide to enter the porn industry, well you are 18 and so you are responsible for your actions. It is not the "demand" that forces people to make certain life choices... and thinking that you could stop the whole industry by people stop watching porn is absurd.
Plus: I really think that there are people in the porn industry that like their jobs, too!

yesyes1234

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Re: First post: advice on how to safely use porn?
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2017, 04:54:23 AM »
Where do you see the hint to healthy ways to watch p? I think I have only seen references to m'ing, which can be beneficial at some point in the recovery for some addicts. But I think that's usually 6-12 months into the process, and I think that is usually for the "lighter" addictions.

Here is a few quotes I found (a little over half way down):
https://yourbrainonporn.com/doidge-on-pornography-and-neuroplasticity

Quote
All addiction involves long-term, sometimes lifelong, neuroplastic change in the brain. For addicts, moderation is impossible, and they must avoid the substance or activity completely if they are to avoid addictive behaviors. Alcoholics Anonymous insists that there are no "former alcoholics" and makes people who haven't had a drink for decades introduce themselves at a meeting by saying, "My name is John, and I am an alcoholic." In terms of [brain] plasticity, they are often correct.

Quote
Eric Nestler, at the University of Texas, has shown how addictions cause permanent changes in the brains of animals. A single dose of many addictive drugs will produce a protein, called delta FosB that accumulates in the neurons. Each time the drug is used, more delta FosB accumulates until it throws a genetic switch, affecting which genes are turned on or off. Flipping this switch causes changes that persist long after the drug is stopped, leading to irreversible damage to the brain’s dopamine system and rendering the animal far more prone to addiction. Non-drug addictions, such as running and sucrose drinking, also lead to the accumulation of deltaFosB and the same permanent changes in the dopamine system.

yesyes1234

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Re: First post: advice on how to safely use porn?
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2017, 05:11:46 AM »
Also, if they do hint to healthier ways to watch p, don't you think they hint to p users and not p addicts? Ofc it's healthier to stay away from hardcore p, edging, multitap and so on.

sender

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Re: First post: advice on how to safely use porn?
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2017, 12:27:42 PM »
To talk of safely using porn seems [to me] very similar to talk of safely smoking crack.  You might say they aren't the same thing, but I'm not convinced they're so different...

The problem (from an addiction perspective) isn't so much the content anymore, it's the way it's being used.   The sheer quantity of variety that's instantly available and searchable (i.e. "the hunt") sets an insidious trap: the farther down this road you go, the more interesting it appears to be.  There is no satisfaction, only the promise of more and more and more.  It's like a hall of mirrors.  And this trap is a new kind of trap, one we've never seen before in human history.  It's the democratization of the sultan's harem; i.e. now anyone can have one, instantly, anywhere, anytime, and it won't cost you a dime.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 12:31:22 PM by sender »

MassageGymnast

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Re: First post: advice on how to safely use porn?
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2017, 05:47:27 PM »
Some people will go on about comparisons to hard drugs or cigarettes, blah blah blah, if you've got a few brain cells kicking around your head op they aren't going to be very convincing with a bit of reasoned thinking. I'll tell you all you need to know though, a reasoned argument that you can't rationalize your way around, it won't be fun to face/it's a tough pill to swallow. These f#%ked up things you've done, posting pics of your girlfriend to be defamed (which could be a criminal matter btw), not all porn addicts do that, many of us porn addicts have watched just as much porn as you and haven't resorted to anything illegal or knowingly harmful to others/loved ones. The real truth is that this is part of who you are, that you're the type of person who reacts to watching porn by harming others, it's time to change that.

With all of this brain science at our fingertips it's all too easy to find something else to blame, to make porn out to be as harmful as hard drugs, cigarettes, etc, because we don't want to face the fact that some of us are just crappy people and need to work on it. Violent videogames don't make a serial killer, violent porn doesn't make a rapist, and a porn addiction doesn't force you to upload defaming pictures of your girlfriend. I do judge, we all judge, some of us voice our judgment, others don't, but some of us just need a real good kick in the behind, and some good strong judgement that our actions negatively affect other people. Hell I've been there, I've done shitty things because that's the type of person I was at the time, but the only way to change that was to work on who I was as a person. You got bigger problems than porn addiction son, other things you should address before you worry about how to safely watch pornography. There are plenty of people who can "safely" watch porn without hurting other people, but that's because of who they are as a person, not some hidden trick.

Don't think for a moment I'm telling you all this just to make you feel bad, you deserve a second chance like anyone else, a chance to change and be a better person. What you did was wrong though, and porn isn't a convenient goat for you to make your escape with, I think you know that making amends here starts with being honest with your girlfriend, regarding your past actions that directly affected her, and doing everything you can get those forum posts of her removed. I know that's not going to be an easy thing to do, she could probably press charges, it's going to take a lot of courage to come out the other side of this a better person. Allow me to get you started in the right direction, and best of luck:
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 06:09:41 PM by MassageGymnast »

thechemist

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Re: First post: advice on how to safely use porn?
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2017, 10:59:56 AM »
Some people will go on about comparisons to hard drugs or cigarettes, blah blah blah, if you've got a few brain cells kicking around your head op they aren't going to be very convincing with a bit of reasoned thinking. I'll tell you all you need to know though, a reasoned argument that you can't rationalize your way around, it won't be fun to face/it's a tough pill to swallow. These f#%ked up things you've done, posting pics of your girlfriend to be defamed (which could be a criminal matter btw), not all porn addicts do that, many of us porn addicts have watched just as much porn as you and haven't resorted to anything illegal or knowingly harmful to others/loved ones. The real truth is that this is part of who you are, that you're the type of person who reacts to watching porn by harming others, it's time to change that.

With all of this brain science at our fingertips it's all too easy to find something else to blame, to make porn out to be as harmful as hard drugs, cigarettes, etc, because we don't want to face the fact that some of us are just crappy people and need to work on it. Violent videogames don't make a serial killer, violent porn doesn't make a rapist, and a porn addiction doesn't force you to upload defaming pictures of your girlfriend. I do judge, we all judge, some of us voice our judgment, others don't, but some of us just need a real good kick in the behind, and some good strong judgement that our actions negatively affect other people. Hell I've been there, I've done shitty things because that's the type of person I was at the time, but the only way to change that was to work on who I was as a person. You got bigger problems than porn addiction son, other things you should address before you worry about how to safely watch pornography. There are plenty of people who can "safely" watch porn without hurting other people, but that's because of who they are as a person, not some hidden trick.

Don't think for a moment I'm telling you all this just to make you feel bad, you deserve a second chance like anyone else, a chance to change and be a better person. What you did was wrong though, and porn isn't a convenient goat for you to make your escape with, I think you know that making amends here starts with being honest with your girlfriend, regarding your past actions that directly affected her, and doing everything you can get those forum posts of her removed. I know that's not going to be an easy thing to do, she could probably press charges, it's going to take a lot of courage to come out the other side of this a better person. Allow me to get you started in the right direction, and best of luck:

I think you made some good points and some bad ones ;) I tend to agree with most of what you said: I don't think of myself as a poor victim that was brainwashed into doing the f*d up things I did... and I am working on being a better person, which is not only about giving up porn. At the same time, it is repeatedly stated in Your Brain On Porn that porn can hijack your brain and make you become another (worse) person. This doesn't mean that you necessarily were a bad person to begin with.
Here your reasoning gets a little wobbly: as you said, violent videogames and movies don't make you a serial killer (hell, otherwise I'd be Charles Manson by now)... but videogames do not have the neuroplastic ability to change your brain as porn does! You seem to assume that doing things (watching porn) doesn't affect who you are and who you become... this is totally wrong (have you read Your Brain On Porn?). It took something like 15 years of watching porn everyday (sometimes several times a day) to make my "sex tastes" so twisted...

This is getting a little off topic but, since you took the time to reply to my post, I will take the time to reply to you. Just FYI I've already tried to remove the pictures and did it for the most part, but it was not possible to do it completely (I paid good money for a DMCA claim but with no results). Furthermore, as stated in a previous comment, I've only uploaded pictures taken from facebook (which is not illegal, for your information. Here, sadly, illegal and very f*d up are two very different things).
I already considered many times to tell my gf, but now I'm convinced it wouldn't make any sense. Up until now and for the rest of her life my f*d up behavior didn't cause and will not cause her any harm. Telling her about this is the only thing that would do it, and the only point would be to make me feel a little better.

Please now let's keep the discussion on-topic. No offense, but with all that "criminal matter" and "you should tell her" jazz you don't know what you are talking about... sadly I've been living together with this situation for more than a year, so it's just natural that I've already considered and pondered everything you might think of.

EDIT: to further prove my argument, giving up porn for the last months almost completely erased the urge to do the messed up things that upset me enough to decide to make a change in the first place.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 11:04:39 AM by thechemist »

thechemist

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Re: First post: advice on how to safely use porn?
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2017, 11:17:12 AM »
Where do you see the hint to healthy ways to watch p? I think I have only seen references to m'ing, which can be beneficial at some point in the recovery for some addicts. But I think that's usually 6-12 months into the process, and I think that is usually for the "lighter" addictions.

Here is a few quotes I found (a little over half way down):
https://yourbrainonporn.com/doidge-on-pornography-and-neuroplasticity

Quote
All addiction involves long-term, sometimes lifelong, neuroplastic change in the brain. For addicts, moderation is impossible, and they must avoid the substance or activity completely if they are to avoid addictive behaviors. Alcoholics Anonymous insists that there are no "former alcoholics" and makes people who haven't had a drink for decades introduce themselves at a meeting by saying, "My name is John, and I am an alcoholic." In terms of [brain] plasticity, they are often correct.

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Eric Nestler, at the University of Texas, has shown how addictions cause permanent changes in the brains of animals. A single dose of many addictive drugs will produce a protein, called delta FosB that accumulates in the neurons. Each time the drug is used, more delta FosB accumulates until it throws a genetic switch, affecting which genes are turned on or off. Flipping this switch causes changes that persist long after the drug is stopped, leading to irreversible damage to the brain’s dopamine system and rendering the animal far more prone to addiction. Non-drug addictions, such as running and sucrose drinking, also lead to the accumulation of deltaFosB and the same permanent changes in the dopamine system.

I see your point: we could be talking about two different things. Maybe there are healthier ways to consume porn, but that would be for people who never became addicts in the first place. Once you become an addict, being able to stop being an addict and regaining a healthy relationship with the substance/behavior that caused your addiction may be impossible, or very hard anyway (of course, a healthy relationship with alcohol would be possible, a healthy relationship with methamphetamine not so much. I do believe that porn is like alcohol in this regard).
I will consider this, thanks.

I may be an optimist, but I do feel like I could pull it off. Being caught in that spiral, I felt like s*t but didn't know what to do about it. Reading You Brain On Porn made something switch in my head, and I now feel like the worst part is behind me, and I could never fall again in that mess.

thechemist

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Re: First post: advice on how to safely use porn?
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2017, 11:26:21 AM »
The problem (from an addiction perspective) isn't so much the content anymore, it's the way it's being used.   

You kinda agreed with me  ;) I made this post because I think that porn addiction caught me off guard (I didn't know that it even existed! Let alone all the little sneaky ways it can mess you up...)
Knowing the full extent of the situation, it doesn't seem impossible to me acquiring a healthy relationship to porn: it is stated in Your Brain On Porn that "old fashioned porn" (magazines and what not) could not and did not cause addiction to the users. Internet porn can cause addiction, but in principle (knowing HOW internet porn is different form "old fashioned porn") one could use it responsibly. It would be like sitting in a Ferrari consciously deciding to never go above 50 Km/h (30 mph for you americans). The question is: can you do it? I believe I can... certainly not now, but after several months of rebooting I think I will.

MassageGymnast

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Re: First post: advice on how to safely use porn?
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2017, 01:11:19 PM »
I think you made some good points and some bad ones ;) I tend to agree with most of what you said: I don't think of myself as a poor victim that was brainwashed into doing the f*d up things I did... and I am working on being a better person, which is not only about giving up porn. At the same time, it is repeatedly stated in Your Brain On Porn that porn can hijack your brain and make you become another (worse) person. This doesn't mean that you necessarily were a bad person to begin with.
Here your reasoning gets a little wobbly: as you said, violent videogames and movies don't make you a serial killer (hell, otherwise I'd be Charles Manson by now)... but videogames do not have the neuroplastic ability to change your brain as porn does! You seem to assume that doing things (watching porn) doesn't affect who you are and who you become... this is totally wrong (have you read Your Brain On Porn?). It took something like 15 years of watching porn everyday (sometimes several times a day) to make my "sex tastes" so twisted...

Nonsense, we don't have enough evidence to determine to what degree porn affects neurology vs the impact of other behaviors. Generally everything you do has an affect on your brain to some degree. You say you're taking responsibility and then you make more excuses.

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This is getting a little off topic but, since you took the time to reply to my post, I will take the time to reply to you. Just FYI I've already tried to remove the pictures and did it for the most part, but it was not possible to do it completely (I paid good money for a DMCA claim but with no results). Furthermore, as stated in a previous comment, I've only uploaded pictures taken from facebook (which is not illegal, for your information. Here, sadly, illegal and very f*d up are two very different things).
I already considered many times to tell my gf, but now I'm convinced it wouldn't make any sense. Up until now and for the rest of her life my f*d up behavior didn't cause and will not cause her any harm. Telling her about this is the only thing that would do it, and the only point would be to make me feel a little better.

Do you even hear yourself? Unauthorized dissemination of facebook photos particularly for the purpose of defamation is very likely illegal, your just making excuses because you'd rather save your own ass, rather than owning up to what you did and accepting potential consequences.

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Please now let's keep the discussion on-topic. No offense, but with all that "criminal matter" and "you should tell her" jazz you don't know what you are talking about... sadly I've been living together with this situation for more than a year, so it's just natural that I've already considered and pondered everything you might think of.

Your topic is a strawman, there is no magical solution to safely watch porn without harming those around you, it depends on who you are as a person, not on the quantity or type of porn you watch. Do whatever you want mate, no one is going to force you to make the changes necessary to be a become a better person. If you aren't going to tell her the truth though then you don't deserve to be with her, she deserves better than someone who isn't willing to be honest with her, she deserves better than someone who is likely going to do harmful things to her in the future. You can change or you can acknowledge that you aren't worth her time, and learn to live with that.

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EDIT: to further prove my argument, giving up porn for the last months almost completely erased the urge to do the messed up things that upset me enough to decide to make a change in the first place.

A bandaid solution, if you don't get to the root of the problem you'll just find something else that is more important than being honest with those you claim to love. Drugs, alcohol, who knows, and you'll probably end up on yet another addiction board looking for a safe way to consume alcohol without beating your wife. Have a nice life champ ;)
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 01:14:04 PM by MassageGymnast »

klarson27

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Re: First post: advice on how to safely use porn?
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2017, 08:25:51 PM »
Quite opinionated for someone who only recently registered..

Based on your 9 posts and the conflicting long winded nature of your perception I’d have to say that I feel like we’ve been here before.

You have way too much time on your hands man!!

MassageGymnast

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Re: First post: advice on how to safely use porn?
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2017, 09:03:21 PM »
Quite opinionated for someone who only recently registered..

Based on your 9 posts and the conflicting long winded nature of your perception I’d have to say that I feel like we’ve been here before.

You have way too much time on your hands man!!

"Conflicting long winded nature of your perception"..... Alright, you don't get to play with the big words until you learn the art of coherency and grammar :D