Author Topic: Offtopic: Misogyny on this Board!  (Read 275 times)

HumbleRich

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Offtopic: Misogyny on this Board!
« on: November 09, 2017, 12:12:53 AM »
I apologjze ladies in advance for mansplaining, but I have had enough.  Lately I have been seeing a lot of addicts who are not recovering making blatantly misogynistic statements, silencing women who have "the gall" to explain all of this from a woman's perspective as well as talking about relationships and relationship recovery, and entire threads devoted to discussing f#@&ing women.  Let this be clear, if you are only abstaining from masturbation and porn so that you can use and abuse a woman in real life you are everything that is wrong with this world!  You may even be worse than Weinstein, because unlike him you are anonymous, your mental sickness relatively hidden.  You might as well just stick to abusing yourself and your own body. 

This is a neuropsychological and chemical addiction.  There is no question about this.  But it is also a psychological/social compulsive habit.  When we act out we are acting out misogyny, sexism, and the objectification and abuse of women. 

For most of us, we know that a real woman would not tolerate our psychological abuse in real life.  We know she would not let us use her.  So we use a woman on the internet instead.  But there is empirical proof that our activities in our fantasy world and online influence our actions in real life.  What we do online informs how we treat people in reality.

Porn use makes us more misogynistic, more abusive, and less socially effective.

The proof is in tbe pudding.  Just look at the majority of threads on this support board to see it.  Most threads on this board treat women like material objects, to be traded in, exchanged, abused, and thrown away.  That is the source of the emotional turmoil you see over on the partner's side.  Their feelings are real.  They are the reality for those women.  Your opinion does not matter.  It is the reality.  This addiction destroys marriages, tears relationships apart.

Not because porn is bad in and of itself.  I feel that I do not have the moral right to make such a judgment.  But I feel it is obvious that there are serious ramifications to partaking in these behaviors.

This support board is a space for healing for both addicts and their partners, as well as for women who had to call it quits.  It is a space for people to figure thejr lives out.  For men (I am generalizing here) to ba e a serious contemplation about their balues and their feelings and thoughts about women, about relationships, and what they feel they want in their lives.

It is a space for serious discussions about sexual and romantic relationships and the dynamics that work and those that don't.  It is not a soace to continue the abjse of women.  In AA there is a term for alcoholics who refuse to do the emotional and behavioral work, dry drunks.  These are alcoholics who may ba e quit drinking, but who will inevitably go back to hitting the bottle because they have done nothing to work on tbe source of the addiction in tbe first place.  They refuse to look at their failure to abide by values and principles, their selfish behaviors, and the resentments they have failed to resolve. 

There are a lot of dry porn addicts in here, and their threads threaten the stability and progress of those who do want to leave all of this stuff behind.  There are married men who want to learn how to be good husbands.  Good, strong men who want to improve their character.  Their voices get drowned out by this babble of sex dolls and hedonism. 

If you are determined to maintain your troubled life as it exists, to live "the unexamined life", that is your prerogative.  No one can tell you not to.  You would certainly be kicked out of any real 12 step program or any other organized process, but there is no one exclaiming that you cannot live that way.  But you speak of abuse towards others.  And frankly that is an abuse of this board.  Ideally keep such sexist and misogynistic thoughts to yourself.  No one wants to hear them.  Your life is your own.  No one elses.  But kindly respect others who use the board, appreciating that there are people who are seriously creating change in their lives.

Peace.

HumbleRich

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Re: Offtopic: Misogyny on this Board!
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2017, 12:29:11 AM »
To clarify:

1.  I am referring to the active discussion of topics that are known to be outside the scope of healthy behavior for the recovering addict; how to pick up women, activities that are known by people in recovery to be other forms of pornography
2.  Topics that are discussed by individuals who know that they are misogynistic or sexist in nature, but who talk about them anyway.

It is one thing to be unconsciously operating under sexist conditioning.  Again, most porn reinforces sexism.  It is usually quite obvious when someone is unaware they are being sexist, and this would be a way of giving them the benefit of the doubt.

But if someone continues after being confronted by someone about the sexism of their behavior, then this is a sign of ignoring the needs of others, and would be rightfully condemned.

3.  This does not refer to the conscious discussion of sexist behaviors in the interest of superseding them. 

Thank you.

AppleJack

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Re: Offtopic: Misogyny on this Board!
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2017, 02:06:14 AM »
As a partner and a woman I thank you for posting this.

elephantricity

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Re: Offtopic: Misogyny on this Board!
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2017, 11:01:03 AM »
Your making some pretty lofty claims. Where is your date and research to back it up?

yesyes1234

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Re: Offtopic: Misogyny on this Board!
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2017, 10:18:22 PM »
Quote
The proof is in tbe pudding.  Just look at the majority of threads on this support board to see it.  Most threads on this board treat women like material objects, to be traded in, exchanged, abused, and thrown away.  That is the source of the emotional turmoil you see over on the partner's side.  Their feelings are real.  They are the reality for those women.  Your opinion does not matter.  It is the reality.  This addiction destroys marriages, tears relationships apart.

I think your clarification contradicts this? Your first statement suggest that is widespread even on the main forum, the second that it is pretty limited or at least only happen in a few threads.

I see these posts about misogyny once in a while, but I don't feel like it matches my experience of this forum. I'm not sure I have encountered it at all, tbh. I mainly stay on the forum, and I do believe that it does take place since it is brought up, but I never really see any proper clarification about where and how much it is happening.

I take it that you have done this already, but challenging it directly is probably a more effective strategy. These type of posts kinda just point out the obvious moral - don't be sexist.

One thing I do see, however, are the posts where men talk about hooking up as part of their recovery, but I don't think that it is inherently sexist. Talking about dating and hooking up in a matter of fact, direct tone doesn't mean you are devoid of empathy towards women or that you objectify them. It's taken for a given, that you are able to do this in a consensual and proper manner. 
It's another way of communicating about these thing, where men are more straight to the point, pragmatic and generally stay away from discussing feelings, where as the partners often write lengthier, more personal comments about their emotional experience. 

aquarius25

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Re: Offtopic: Misogyny on this Board!
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2017, 07:34:42 AM »
Yesyes, those are some good and interesting points you bring up. One thing jumped out at me and I wanted to bring it up. You mention how men talk more pragmatically and generally tend to stay away from emotion conversation. After watching my husband struggle and finally really make some good progress it wasn't until he started identifying, discussing, and really delving into the emotion that his real progress was made. He started discovering his triggers and root cause reasons why he started this behaivor. When he focused on building healthy habits in those areas his desire for porn really diminished to almost non-existent. A lot of men on here do just focus on the PIED, dating, and just "not looking at porn". A lot of them relapse a lot too. Maybe shifting to focus and engaging in more emotion-based conversation would help? I don't know the answer I am just bringing up something I have noticed.

I will also say that when partners do bring up points in the main forum to engage and bring up a topic it is usually not responded to or not well received. I have even received messages from a few men who have asked me to stay in my own place and that I am not wanted or welcome in the main forum. Only to watch that individual start yet another thread about taking viagra or something. It is not across the board but there is a bit of an attitude there. I think partners have a lot to offer in perspective shift to some of the PA's here. Even the ones who are single. If you want real healing you need to look outside of yourself. Look at the impact in the world around you. THink about what life you want to have and take the step to go live it. Not just focusing on whether or not you have morning wood.

yesyes1234

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Re: Offtopic: Misogyny on this Board!
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2017, 07:58:45 AM »
Quote
When he focused on building healthy habits in those areas his desire for porn really diminished to almost non-existent. A lot of men on here do just focus on the PIED, dating, and just "not looking at porn". A lot of them relapse a lot too. Maybe shifting to focus and engaging in more emotion-based conversation would help? I don't know the answer I am just bringing up something I have noticed.
 

I agree. In a lot of ways it is an essential part of the recovery. But then there is also the argument of what you are comfortable with or just feel like you have the resources to deal with at the moment. The pragmatic approach seem to be a quicker way to delve into the essentials.

Quote
I will also say that when partners do bring up points in the main forum to engage and bring up a topic it is usually not responded to or not well received. I have even received messages from a few men who have asked me to stay in my own place and that I am not wanted or welcome in the main forum. Only to watch that individual start yet another thread about taking viagra or something. It is not across the board but there is a bit of an attitude there.

I think that is sort what I would expect. They sound pretty awful, but I guess you will also get a few of those types.

Quote
I think partners have a lot to offer in perspective shift to some of the PA's here. Even the ones who are single. If you want real healing you need to look outside of yourself. Look at the impact in the world around you. THink about what life you want to have and take the step to go live it. Not just focusing on whether or not you have morning wood.

I agree, and I think I have learned some things from the partners forum as well. One thing I would like to point out though, is the difference in use of language. In the partner forum I see a tendency to use more loaded and even hyperbolic language which I think can be off putting to a lot of men who would usually approach issues from the more detached, pragmatic perspective.

AppleJack

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Re: Offtopic: Misogyny on this Board!
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2017, 01:43:36 PM »
Quote from: yesyes1234 


[quote


I agree, and I think I have learned some things from the partners forum as well. One thing I would like to point out though, is the difference in use of language. In the partner forum I see a tendency to use more loaded and even hyperbolic language which I think can be off putting to a lot of men who would usually approach issues from the more detached, pragmatic perspective.

And right in your own post is an example of the problem, women are overly emotional right? that's basically what you are saying.
Stereotyping and blaming women for the poor response by the men on here. And just like humblerich pointed out, you don't even get you are part of the problem, because you don't even think you have a problem.

elephantricity

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Re: Offtopic: Misogyny on this Board!
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2017, 03:25:24 PM »
Generally, yes, women are more emotional. There is nothing sexist by stating that generality. While applying that logic to a single woman would be sexist, stating that overall, women tend to be more emotional than men is a scientific fact.


AppleJack

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Re: Offtopic: Misogyny on this Board!
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2017, 03:48:52 PM »
Really cos that isn't what actual research says.

This is just one I'm sure you can do your own googling
https://www.elitedaily.com/dating/guys-more-emotional-girls/1077730

elephantricity

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Re: Offtopic: Misogyny on this Board!
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2017, 05:07:50 PM »
I feel like applejack proved my point... lol

AppleJack

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Re: Offtopic: Misogyny on this Board!
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2017, 06:44:22 PM »
no I didn't. Just because men hide their emotions doesn't mean they aren't making decisions based on them. Expressing emotions isn't the same as basing decisions on them. In fact IMO expressing and processing feelings allows you to make more rational non emotional decisions.

Oh and welcome back nwalt, another profile that will get banned soon.
 

yesyes1234

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Re: Offtopic: Misogyny on this Board!
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2017, 08:33:46 PM »
Quote
And right in your own post is an example of the problem, women are overly emotional right? that's basically what you are saying.
Stereotyping and blaming women for the poor response by the men on here. And just like humblerich pointed out, you don't even get you are part of the problem, because you don't even think you have a problem.

It wasn't to pass judgement on any approach. Like I alluded to in the first posts, the approach by many men is interpreted in a skeptical way, so is the approach by some women by men. It's not to justify lashing out, but a way to explain disagreements and criticism.

And no, I don't think I have a problem.

Gracie

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Re: Offtopic: Misogyny on this Board!
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2017, 11:05:36 PM »
When you read about PAs there is usually a time when they realize there is an emotional disconnect that occurs or a trauma event or just tough situations.  That is when they are most likely to use as a self medication.  That is mentoned in a great many threads.  So emotions affect the user.  They also affect the partners.

My excuses and rationalizations topic was a compilation of conversations with many addicts in six years of posting.  None of which were new.  I just gathered them in a post. 

metal22

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Re: Offtopic: Misogyny on this Board!
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2017, 11:37:21 PM »
Your making some pretty lofty claims. Where is your date and research to back it up?

Generally, yes, women are more emotional. There is nothing sexist by stating that generality. While applying that logic to a single woman would be sexist, stating that overall, women tend to be more emotional than men is a scientific fact.




I added these two quotes b/c they seem to stand alone by themselves as quite preposterous.

But I will affirm that emotions (and lack of expression of them) was/is an absolute factor in my addiction to porn.  The sad fact is it didn't even dawn on me for the first year of my sobriety.  6 months in I did notice that I would get into a negative mindset with circular thinking occuring around it.  But 1 year in I finally started to realize why.  Something would set me off ( say a coworker would say something meanspirited) and I would be irritated for a few minutes but life would go on and would seemingly forget about it,  yet I would still have a bad day.  Finally, I have realized that the emotion actually DIDNT get processed like I thought it did,  but it sure did get processed-just to my subconscious!  For as long as I can remember I have done just that with my emotions,  ignore them,  then unwittingly push them through my subconscious.  Porn was an easy self-soothing technique for me,  but I had others things I did too.  Porn was just a symptom for me,  not a cause.  That cause was much deeper. 
I think a year and a half in I have done a good deal of healing.  My partner has also.  There is still a great amount of work needed to continue on myself.  But 1 month in I was one of those guys worrying about how do I not relapse and how do I get past this PIED?  There is hope for everyone.
The one thing I'd like to caution ALL of us on is getting stuck.  Each one of our circumstances is different,  and each with our different backgrounds.  We can all heal,  move forward and be better humans,  but we have to continue to work on ourselves.  Digging deep,  looking introspectively at yourself,  even at the parts you don't want to look at.