Double standards: add yours here

Too often we find, it's one rule for our men, another rule for us. We see this throughout our partners porn/sex addiction.

I will give an example to begin with. I used to plan for romantic/sexy weekends at home, but these plans were inevitably derailed because he'd be on the porn sites first thing and then he'd have no interest in sex. One morning I knew he'd been up very early and using porn and I knew the chances of us having sex was zero, yet again.  During the years of his addiction I masturbated occasionally but never when he was at home, but on this one occasion I did. He must have been aware of it although I remember trying to be quiet and not make the bedsprings creak etc, but somehow he knew. When I got up, I was immediately on the receiving end of an angry outburst, along the lines of me not needing him for anything. Excuse me?! This is the man who masturbates to internet porn when I'm asleep, when I'm out, when I say I'll be late, and yes, many many times when I'm at home. Most of the times he used porn, I'd be at home.  Yes, I have walked in on him and caught him in the act, and walked in to see his dirty pile of used tissues, or frantically closing down his browser windows. And yes, I did catch the odd glimpse of what was obviously porn. But my one occasion of masturbation when he was at home ? no porn or anything else required ? he was so fucking angry. And boy, did he take it as a personal reflection on him. Quite obviously, he was entitled to his secret porn and masturbation sessions. I wasn't supposed to be sexual at all. Talk about double standards....

My husband has had a thing for celebrities as well as porn. I think about every male celebrity that I've said was attractive and he's always torn them down, and I wasn't looking up fap videos of those men, no would just admire them for the few fleeting moments they were on the screen. I.e I I found the character (and see this is character not even the actor) Aragorn from the lord of the rings film nice to watch and my husband found a picture of what he usually looks like when not playing that character to show me how unattractive he normally is and put me off him. I mentioned I thought Matt Damon was good looking and for the last 16 years he's torn him down, saying his name in a stupid voice etc.  So it seems I can't find other men attractive, without hurting his ego but it was totally ok for him to go masturbating to celebrities. Funny thing is is that he's said he wouldn't care if I got off to other men, watched porno (and I said porno filmed for females, not for male fantasy) and he recommends he would be a ok with it, but considering he's not been ok with me thinking the odd actor here and there is easy on the eye I seriously doubt he would be!

There are two double standards I found quite interesting and entertaining.
1) The fact that when having sex if he goes too soon it seems that were done. My needs are met and that's no biggy. I have talked to other women and men about this and it seems to be a socially acceptable thing, common even! Thankfully we have worked this one out now! I do find it interesting though that a man can leave a woman unsatisfied over and over yet if a woman did that there would be hell to pay. Men you holler blue balls and call her a manipulator, tease and all kinds of things. Hummm, very interesting.

2) I also found this experience a double standard. When we confided in friends about my husbands problem instead of anyone being supportive to me almost everyone immediately went to it being my fault. That I am controlling him into shaming him about P. I became the bad guy even after my husband said no and admitted that he had a real problem. People were still treating me as the bad guy.

I am learning to just accept that this is the culture we live in, however as for my house, family and kids we will be different. I cannot agree with these double standards.

Double standards:

1. A woman is supposed to remain the exact same waist size and weight from the wedding day to the day she dies - with two weeks off (at the most) for pregnancy. Men are allowed to age and we are supposed to not say a word about a growing gut, but woe to the woman that gains ten pounds over the course of fifteen or twenty years.

2. Men getting all hot and bothered over a sexy woman - acceptable. Women getting hot and bothered over a man worth millions (gold digger), a sexy man (whore) or even an intelligent man and all hell breaks loose.

3. A woman that doesn't shave her legs or underarms or bikini is somehow "unkept", but a man can grow hair out of any part of his body - including his nose, and all is still right with the world.

4. Women are expected to make a man feel good about his sexual performance - even to the point of faking. If a woman is not satisfied she is never to breath a word of it. If a man decides he isn't satisfied in bed with his wife that is grounds for divorce in the eyes of many and an excuse for infidelity. In fact, it is often assumed the reason he looks at porn is because the wife isn't good in bed.

How could I forget these:

Woman has sexual issues - people assume she has unresolved stress from her childhood, is a prude, or a sex manic. Man has sexual issues - first question is how often his wife has sex with him.

If a woman cheats - she is immediately blamed and shamed for her behavior (no issues with that). If a man cheats, there is talk of 'well, if his wife was meeting his needs he would not have strayed'.

I loved reading all of these!  They are all true.  I have always said that society teaches women that no matter how old we are or how many little lives we have brought into the world, we are expected to remain a 19 year old "10".  BUT men can get fat, old, ugly, have no teeth, stink, be gnarled up and they are ENTITLED to a 19 year old "10".  It is their due.

When it comes to dress.  From the 1800's on (and before that)  men wore pants and shirt.  Women wore long dresses until 20's then it was flapper dresses, then depression era and WWII and long dresses again.  Then in the 50's gradually less and less clothing.  So now men still wear pants and shirt and women wear less than ever or "second" skin like clothes.  Ladies who has taught us how to dress?  Not us!

Men can cuss up a storm, but it is un-ladylike for us to do the same.  Taking care of children?  Half his half ours but who bears the most?  Women.

Interesting read. And definitely something worth discussing.

First of all, the one you mention, Emerald Blue, seems obviously ludicrous. Is that really his honest opinion, even on the good days? Otherwise it could just be the addict mind working its magic. As an addict you do feel an absurd sense of entitlement, and at times you do lash out over nothing or for reasons you can't really justify.

Obviously, there is a lot of double standards regarding women, but I would like to share some of the ones concerning men, because double standars goes both ways, of course:

- Physically, there are standards for men as well: Being short, weak or having a small penis devalue your manhood.
- And it's not like fat or ugly guys have an easy time getting laid either.
- Men are judged by the amount of women they have slept with. Fewer partners = less manly
- And typically men are expected to be the one approaching the other part - being shy significantly hurts your social status in that regard. Plus being shy as a man is percieved as weak and therefore "unmanly".
- On the other hand, a woman approaching a man for sex will have a greater chance than the other way around.
- Men are expected to pay on the first date and in general court women.
- Men are way more likely to have their sexuality questioned - maybe most noticable regarding pedophilia.
- Men are more likely to have their morality questioned - when cops arrive to a house disturbance, it's always the guy that gets arrested.
- A mans role as a parent is typically valued lower than a woman.
- Men in an abusive relationship has a harder time seeking help - both because there are fewer initiatives, and less of an accept that women can be the abusing part despite an almost equal representation in the statistics.
- Men are more often assumed to cheat. Or to just be scumbags due to their unrestrained libido.
- There is pressure for a man to satisfy a woman as well. If he can't make her come, he is less of a man.
- And if he can't always get erect or he orgasms too fast, he is less of a man.

Of course all of these are not black and white, but the stereotypes are definitely out there. Anyways, let me know what you think.

What I ment was, you were right. It's so obviously a double standard I was surprised he couldn't see it.

Yes yes  if you want to commisserate with men about the things you have said, then post in another forum for an open disscussion. Men have their sexuality questioned and pedophilia used in the same sentence?  Seriously?  I want you to know that anytime I see a man engaging in what appears to be this I will not question his sexuality, I will report him to the police.  You should not post here about violence that many women here have experienced.  You need to limit your comments about that now.  Ifyou feel thses "stereotypes" are true then be different.  Change things.

Wut? This is a thread about double standards, which obviously concern both men and women. Why wouldn't you want to know what double standards men experience? I assume none of us like double standars that negatively effect either gender.

"Men have their sexuality questioned and pedophilia used in the same sentence?  Seriously?  I want you to know that anytime I see a man engaging in what appears to be this I will not question his sexuality, I will report him to the police."

Obviosly this is a misinterpretation. What I ment was, when men are observed around children, there is a tendency to jump to suspicion about his sexuality. I don't know how many men I've heard complain about the hateful looks they get  when they observe their kid at the playground. This would not happen to a woman.

"You should not post here about violence that many women here have experienced.  You need to limit your comments about that now.  Ifyou feel thses "stereotypes" are true then be different.  Change things."

I'm not posting about violence, just pointing out that there are clear double standards regarding violence and domestic abuse. I didn't mean that the stereotypes are true, but that general assumptions are made based on stereotypes which has lead to double standards. For men as well as women.

Stats:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/sep/05/men-victims-domestic-violence

Okay, so according to these stats it's a bit over 40 %. However, you could point out that the actual number might be higher than the official one due to negative stereotypes.

That might be so, but in contrast there are no centers for men. In England and Wales there are 7500 refuge places for women and only 60 for men.

"I also agree with Gracie, if you don't accept this macho boys-will-be-boys bro culture then don't buy into it. Change it. Question it. Think differently."

If that is true for the negative double standards I face, surely the same can be said about the double standards your gender face?

Also, my personal choice doesn't mean that I won't be judged on these criterias by other people, which will still limit my ability to navigate in society.

"As Gracie says, if you want an open discussion then do it in one of the men's sections. After all, someone posted a thread about "women are assholes" a while back and what can I say? Nobody stepped in to say, "this is out of order". That's how entrenched negative views on women have become."

I didn't comment, because it was obviously a ridiculous claim. I did see some comments pointing out that it wasn't the case, though.

It wasn't really to get an open discussion. I just saw the thread and wanted to contribute. I considered writing some about women as well or the grey areas in some of the standards facing both women and men where I come from. But I do find it interesting how quickly you assume I have an alternative agenda. A negative stereotype in itself, perhaps?

I will say the one on pedophilia is real. I hate to admit it but its true. My husband has been given weird looks when he takes the kids to the playground. If he isn't right with them then people assume he has no kids and is there to "watch kids". Even my grandpa who just loves to see children won't go and watch kids play unless my kids are with him because he doesn't want to be mistaken for a perv. It's really sad. There are a lot of double standards for men too. I forget that sometimes, so thank you YesYes for helping me see both sides.

YesYes, I see where you're coming from with your double standards, some of them i can agree with somewhat. However most of those I feel like are thought of mostly by men. If i asked what my friends thought of these I can assure you that most of my male friends would agree and most if not all of my female friends would disagree with all except the men being abused, i agree with that and the pedophilia i can see happening. But the ones about "being a man" I rarely ever hear them from a woman. Being short can absolutely be a characteristic a woman would prefer. And especially someone who has been with less partners is a huge plus to every woman i know (except maybe a few). What is this double standard obsession with getting laid=manhood? That's exactly what the macho man crap is trying to shove down men's throats. What makes a guy a real "man" is someone who has respect for everyone and especially for the woman they want to be in a relationship with. It's the golden rule, being polite, being honest. These are qualities that make you a man because they're qualities of a good person. Men don't try and sleep with as many woman as possible, that usually means they have trust/commitment issues. Men don't judge their manliness by how good they are in bed or how strong they are. That's someone who has low confidence or insecurities. Also please show me where you heard men's roles as parents are typically valued lower? I have never seen that with anyone's parents and not even mine. I'm sure some men are even better parent's than there spouse. I guess what is really getting to me now is a lot of those aren't double standards according to women, they are things that I only hear from men. At first I was mediocre at sex with my current partner, what makes sex amazing now is first of all I haven't used P in about five months, but it's the fact that we know what we like and the way to be amazing at sex is to be intimate. Most woman probably don't want this "macho man" that most guys think they need to be, they want the sweet respectful guy who talks about his feelings and knows how to show respect for everyone. Since I've been honest and recovering, I have been more respectful, more honest, more intimate and just a better person overall. Being able to admit your problems, having respect, treating everyone but especially your girlfriend/partner/spouse with the utmost respect, love and honesty is what I believe makes a man.

I wholeheartedly agree with you JediMaster

I don't know anyone who thinks all men are pedophiles. I know a lot of people that are suspicious of a man OR a woman sitting in a park watching children when they brought no children to the park. There is a reason for that suspicion. We were just at a children's sporting event a few months ago where two children were sexually molested in the bathroom. People are on guard because they have to be on guard.

I am NEVER going to bring judgement on parents that protect their young children in the ways they see fit, especially if they are not actually hurting innocent people. And no, not letting someone look at, smile at, talk to, or admire their children is not hurting the adult. When my children were small I often had to intervene when well meaning adults thought it was okay to talk to my children and I remember more than one going as far as to pick one of my children up and give them a hug. Sorry, no one's entertainment means they get an opportunity to touch my children without my AND my children's permission first. And, sitting on a bench and 'watching' my children makes me just as uncomfortable as some man or woman sitting around 'watching' me. I don't know anyone that would be comfortable going for a jog and someone following them in a car 'watching' or doing yoga in a park and someone just deciding to grab a seat on the bench and deciding to watch the free show - why should parents be comfortable at someone sitting in the park watching the free show of their children play? Some people, even small ones, do not exist for the enjoyment of others - especially without their consent or permission.

I have NEVER heard a woman complain that a man has slept with too few women before her. Really? Like I have literally never, ever heard a woman say she wish her man had sex with way more people before they got married. Literally - no one. I guess it is possible that there is some women someone pining about the fact that her husband 'only' had one or two partners before her and she would he would have had 20 or 30, but - I would be shocked to see it/hear it.

My ex had slept with loads of people (supposedly) and I always found it a bit of a turn off, or perhaps that was more so cos he use to go on about it all the time. I personally don't think men are macho for sleeping with lots of women, shallow is more the word I would use, and I do think like the others that is a big difference between what men think and women think.

Like Stillme, I'm suspicious of anyone without children with them being around children. Sadly that's the world we live in. Where I am there is a notorious female, who will turn up at playgrounds watching children, threatening them etc. She's been locked up for it before and she's not suppose to go near playgrounds but does.

I think its an interesting thing to note what group the double standard comes from. Yes I do think a lot of the double standards come from men, not only for women but men even put these ridiculous double standards on each other. Now let me be clear that I do understand that women do the same, we create our own double standards for sure for men and each other. I am just noticing that it seems, and please correct me if I am wrong, but I feel like the majority of the double standards brought up are from the mach man attitude. My questions is how do we shift this focus? How can we make a difference? I certainly don't want to just notice something, I want to be part of the change.

Sorry to see you go but totally understand and good luck with everything x

In my experience, a bunch of things mostly on the end of others. I try to deal with his addiction and I blog about it. When I've sought support from my family, they accuse me of trying to control my SO, of emasculating him, and saying I should just let him look at other women because he will anyway.

How he's ogled other women online (even if he doesn't masturbate to them), yet it wouldn't be okay if I was on those stupid sites where girls post nudes and posted one of myself.

How women are supposed to sit back and let men stare at them like meat and we are supposed to be "complacent" like the porn stars are and just let men look and fantasize and jack off to us.

If you dress how you want to and it makes you feel confident, you're just dressing that way for a man. You can't dress sexy and confident for yourself. Therefore, if you dress sexy and a man looks at you like you're meat, it's your fault.

Men seem to HATE if their SO's use a vibrator or toys on themselves, but we're supposed to be okay with them using porn.