The Alchemy of Composting

Hey all,

Totally new here and a partner of a man addicted to porn. Looking to connect and have a place to discuss, get some advice and ideas and of course get some support. Working to turn the pile of shit that is currently my marriage into some nice compost.

I have had sex addict of some sort in my life since I was younger, my father used to leave out magazines where I could see them and since I was about 5, I can remember worrying about my body and if it would be something men found attractive if it didn't look like the bodies they see in porn.

My second husband was VERY addicted. The lying, gaslighting, PIED (blamed on me and my inability to tolerate his various intense fetishes), and abuse was more than I could take and I left him after many years of marriage and infidelity of various sorts. He's a narcissist and very manipulative. Managed to sign my name and get credit cards totaling over 30k to pay for his phone sex habit. A very expensive mistake on my part. He also did a lot of sex chatrooms etc. My current husband and I were friends during this time and he supported me through much of it, but at the time I didn't know/realize he also had addiction issues.

My current husband has been addicted for many years, but I only really found out the seriousness of it etc about 2 years ago. A familiar story to many of you, he got more introverted, staying up late, angry, rude, distant etc. When we would talk he would usually blame it on being too busy, my scheduling too many things in and him needing much much more downtime/alone time. We have been together about 17 years and around year 7 we had some issues similar to it but managed to work through them, though I didn't realize at the time that porn was the issue. At some point I ran across an article about how porn addiction can cause the introversion/distancing etc and it triggered me pretty strongly, word for word it was my relationship. I was shocked because he knew my past and I had drawn a clear boundary that we would not have porn in our home. I dug a bit deeper into some research and found that many men escalate severely and this caused a full blown panic episode where I tore the house apart, read journals, looked at browser histories etc., and discovered that porn was indeed a part of our lives and a very big one at that.

Long story short, we were both in therapy at the time, we refocused, did a full disclosure and spent the last two years working on it. We're here now because for at least the last few months he's relapsed. Honestly we haven't had time yet for a new full disclosure, I'm not sure if he's been doing it this whole time and just lying or what.

I'm similar to many women, the porn damages and I feel stripped to the bone knowing I will never meet those expectations (I'm a larger woman) but the lying is so painful and heartbreaking and shocking some days I'm just not sure I can handle it.

I know a full disclosure is going to happen soon, he's back on the wagon again and we're working towards rebuilding again. Daily check in and reading etc. is helping. I'm angry, hurt and exhausted already but wanting to process it in a healthy way. I've been on forums where there's nothing but contempt for the addict, and the hatred for women in porn etc off the charts, that's just not me. I don't believe that having a lot of contempt is going to heal my marriage and I am simply not capable of bringing down other women, who in fact, many are victims of his actions as I am.

Anyway, any thoughts, advice etc would be helpful. One of the hardest parts of all of this is just simply being alone with it and not having someone other than hubs to talk to about it.

Onward and upward...

Welcome Hypatia156! That sounds pretty rough. I am both a recovering porn addict and a partner so I can kind of identify with a lot of what you're going through.

I totally understand the part about feeling alone as the partner and not having anyone to talk to about it. That's where I was for about the past year since I found out about my wife's porn use and other online behavior that she was engaging in. It kind of bothers me to get into the other stuff right now so I won't elaborate. I couldn't take it anymore. Keeping this stuff all to myself was eating me up inside. I had to talk to someone about it. I just started going to counseling about a month ago and it has been very helpful talking to someone about it so I could process all the thoughts and feelings that I have.

I know how much it hurts. I'm sorry about that. You said you were in therapy before. Did you feel like it was helpful for you? For me one of the hardest things now is the uncertainty about the future.

I don't have any great words of wisdom, but just know you're not alone. I wish you the best!

Welcome! I am glad you found the forum and I am sad that you are going through this hurt, you are definitely not alone. I have to say that I LOVE your comparison to composting! I think it is beautiful and so on point! I enjoy gardening so it really jumped out at me! It sounds like you have had a long history of dealing with this hurt. I am also glad that your husband is in a place where he can acknowledge he has a problem and wants to work on it. That is huge as a lot of men don't even get there. Remember you may be his wife but your recovery is yours. Be sure to pour into what you need for you to be healthy, happy, and have peace. Welcome again and if you ever need anything don't hesitate to reach out.

Thank you both for your nice welcome!

@NewBeginning: I've gone to therapy off and on for many years. Most recently about 7 years straight with the same one, VERY Helpful. I wasn't specifically going related to this, but to tease out some final issues I was having and it was really a good thing. He wasn't schooled specifically for PA, but did very well in helping me via the Trauma model to address the issues as they came up.

@aquarius25: Thank you so much for the support and thoughts, I really appreciate them!

Check in for today: Feeling better. My cortisol levels are decreasing I think because usually when we get all heightened they sky rocket, I can't sleep, have a lot of body pain etc. We had a good check in lastnight and I'm feeling more like we are doing this together.

Reading Love you, Hate Porn and its helpful though it does make me sad, they describe so clearly how I am feeling but I often have a hard time voicing that to my partner. Im always afraid it will make it worse, and in the past it definitely has escalated his use because he felt guilty and ashamed and would turn back to porn to tune out, thus causing the cycle to continue.

Also: I'm tired. Anyone have ideas on how to keep motivating yourself to stay with it? I tend to tune out too and think "everything's fine" when I get this way just as a way to recover, but that often leads us down to ignoring the problem again.

Lastly: I'm thinking of a daily check in I can do as well. My partner does his  and its really helpful, I was thinking of one that I can do too. Thoughts or ideas as to what that could be? I'm thinking at minimum:

1. How am I feeling about his recovery/use today?
2. How do I feel in my body? (comfy, in pain, feeling ugly, seeing myself as me or not etc)
3. Have I been triggered by any of his actions today? If so, what were they and how did that feel to me?

Others?

Hi and welcome.
Doing check ins is a great idea. Vicki Tidwell Palmer has some guidance on her website of how to do them (she's a csat).
Re tiredness and motivation I really can't over empathise how important self care is.
A really good resource for partners is Paula Halls book, "sex addiction: the partners perspective"

Thanks for the ideas I will certainly check those out. I know some of the questions in "Love you, Hate Porn" that they suggest for asking partners seem like good check in questions.

I've been scheduling in massage once a month lately to help with self care, helps me get back in my body and be more aware of where things are hurting etc. Its a good reminder!

Ok, here's some draft questions for my own check in each day to share with my husband.

I'd love to get some feedback and ideas for others:

? What events/actions happened today that concerned me/caused worry in regards to your actions?
? What things am I focused on today for self care?
? How am I feeling today?
? How am I feeling about our relationship?

I personally would add
What has brought me joy today?
It is important when healing to notice daily where your joy is coming from.
Great job. Sounds like you are in a good place. Also I would encourage you to communicate these questions and discuss with your husband. Communication is where the relationship heals. Sending you love and encouragement!

Hi Hypatia,
I agree with all of the advice given by others here. 

For me, something that has been really helpful is to write a daily list of 3 things my husband did that I am grateful for.  It helps me to scan for the positives which is helpful for turning off the constantly fearful and distrustful voice in my head. 

some examples:

I'm grateful my husband:
- went to his first PA therapy appointment
- he really listened to me as I shared with him my fears that he's not telling me everything about his porn use.
- he found a painted rock during his walk with the words "live free, wild heart, gypsy soul" and he picked it up for me and presented it as a surprise in a very playful manner. 

Raven Song:

That's a great idea thanks! I've added that and the "JOY" one to my list.

Just a quick update:

Things are going well but very hard. My birthday was friday and I just simply wasn't feeling it. We hung out and had some wine and ended up talking a lot and doing some more disclosure. That was actually quite relieving as it wasn't as bad as I imagined, but I did get into a dark place due to all of it.

I don't want to go on and on about it, but one way I explained it to him is that if we have everything clear between us and then a week later and he relapses and tells me about it, my mind will need to relive the last week to determine where things went off of the rails, if I had anything to do with it, if any sex was affected by it etc etc. That's hard to do and my mental state and self esteem take a huge hit.

Now imagine the same issue but its been a year.  During that time I've repeatedly asked and been lied to about use. It feels like the rug getting pulled all over again, and I just simply don't know where things are going now, or how we'll get there if we know.

Its a tough thing and I'm having a hard time right now sorting through the feelings, but at least he's listening and initiating trust building. I feel like I'm recovering but this weekend has been hard and depressing.

Just a quick update.

Just got back from a trip that was intense and exhausting. All went ok with us but there was one concern. My husband on Sunday was sitting at a conference (that I was doing presentations at) and he determined he was bored (not as an insult to me, he's seen me do this a thousand times) and installed reddit and instagram with the idea that he could handle it ok.

He did mention it to me that evening and though it really scared me, I told him I thought it was a really bad idea. He'd used both of these before as porn, and while they can be used for many things other than that, I felt it was really dangerous for him to flirt with that at this point in his recovery, especially since he did it because he was feeling introverted and bored.

He listened and uninstalled them, but the whole thing really unsettled me. We're home now, he's said he's really grateful for my advice and he's doing well, but I always worry a lot after these types of events because he's so "burned out" and "anti-social".

Anyway, over all things are good. Just hanging in there, one day at a time.

Onward and upward...

He did mention it to me that evening and though it really scared me, I told him I thought it was a really bad idea. He'd used both of these before as porn, and while they can be used for many things other than that, I felt it was really dangerous for him to flirt with that at this point in his recovery, especially since he did it because he was feeling introverted and bored.

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Good job speaking up about your concerns!  I agree, it does feel really dangerous.  I would be concerned, too, that he thought he could be okay with it. It does feel like flirting with danger. 

Wishing you continued movement upward for you and your relationship. 

Thanks. It did feel better and he let me know that he was glad that I told him. A few days later he told me I'd "saved" him from a relapse and he was very grateful for me.

So I have that going for me. LOL

Have a great day all!

hypatia,

A few days later he told me I'd "saved" him from a relapse and he was very grateful for me.

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wow! that sounds like a really big admission on his part. that must feel good! 

If you are any bit like me, I bet you are thinking "next step is for you to save yourself from a relapse." 

But that is great that he is talking freely with you about his process.  I would like for my partner to be that far along right now.  Hopefully soon!

Well that went well for about six months.

We talked, he checked in, things were good.

About three weeks ago, signs that porn was happening started creeping in. I immediately asked what happened, what was happening. He said nothing, but that he had been feeling 'weird' and that we should start date nights again (we'd been a bit lazy about it) and we went out the next night. He was distracted, looking at women a bit when he thought I wasn't looking etc.,

I asked again. My main boundary has been honesty. We have some protocols in place if he's using, and I reminded him that I was here to help if he did use, and that he should tell me. He said nothing's up, nothing's happening.

A week later, I confront him again, telling him I can tell, I'm starting to feel panic, worry etc., and please just let me know. He looked me in the eyes, loved on me and said "I'm not using porn at all, I'm ok. I'm not sure why you can't believe me, but I'm not". I told him outright I didn't believe him. His "tell" signs are pretty clear. He was hurt that I don't trust him, and told me so.

The other night, I tried again. We had had a weekend apart due to some travel on my part. He'd checked in all weekend etc., assuring me things were ok. When I got home, I told him I still didn't believe him and I wasnt' sure what the path forward is if he's showing signs, but telling me nothing is happening.

After a few hours of round and round with this, he just up and tells me he'd looked about three weeks before and lost it for about a week before he got it under control again.

So that makes 3 times in recent weeks that he'd just openly lied and gas lighted me. I'm proud of myself that I caught it this time, that I noticed and when he lied, I was pretty sure he was lying, and that he was making me question the reality of my feelings.

I'm so tired of all of this, its exhausting and I'm so hurt. I believe he/we can get through this but each time we fall down, I get pretty scraped up. Today things are better, he's working on his summary of a new plan etc., but I'm just so tender and hurting, I don't know what the next steps are.

Maybe I just need to watch Fried Green Tomatoes for the 700th time. 

Any ideas on self care would be appreciated.

I am really sorry to hear this. I know it hurts so much. I must say that it sounds like you really handled the situation so well. Good job trusting your gut and not letting up! For real, that takes huge courage! As far as what to do, I would ask what boundaries and agreements have you set in place and communicated? You mentioned some in our post but didn't say what they were. I would say stick to those. If that means staying staying somewhere else or him sleeping in a room with not screens and giving you his phone every night till you feel comfortable trusting him again. Whatever it is, just stick to it. I know  it can feel scary. I know for myself the first few times I put a boundary in place and he trampled it I would end up giving in. I would say "ok but next time". Well next time always came and I would end up saying the same thing again. I lost my integrity and gave him no real reason to respect my boundaries because I wasn't respecting them. When I started sticking to my word about what I needed to feel safe, that is when he started to take my requests seriously as well. You are strong, and you know what you need to feel safe. You can do this! I think you are amazing! If you ever need anything I am here for you!

Thank you for your response and support! One of the things that has been the worst for me is the feelings of isolation and you all here have been so helpful.

My boundaries that we've agreed to are:

-- If I feel objectified or he tunes out during sex I stop and disengage and he supports that and we talk. This doesn't happen often these days, but in the past was a huge issue.

-- He needs to have a written action/recovery plan and be engaged in it.

-- Daily check in. We have a written/shared journal and he has some writing prompts that he needs to check in with every day prior to us going to bed. Did he use, hows he feelings, what were triggers, etc. This is going OK. He does skip occasionally but usually for a reason (traveling and was with me the whole time etc)

-- We go to bed together every night.

-- Non-negotiable boundaries are: No child porn, no contact with live people (text, chat, prostitutes, etc), refusal to seek treatment, continued gaslighting and lies. The lies part, well.... here we are.

There's some others, but those are the basics. We're working on the "Love you--Hate Porn" model more or less. I'm feeling like I do pretty well keeping my boundaries but could be better. I'd love to get some counseling, but we live pretty far out and its hard to find someone, but I'm digging around.

My self care currently has been to garden or work outside. We have an acre of fairly wild property that needs taming and I take out my frustrations and hurt feelings on knot weed and by planting flowers and I have 400 sq ft of garden to be tending now. By the end of summer, we'll all be drowning in flowers and veg!

I do have friends I can talk to about it some, but they are mutual friends and I tend only to go to them in crisis times or have general conversations.

One friend recently told me that she believes my being active in his recovery (Note: I'm not his accountability partner, he has one here that's working well), and his having to tell me about using is causing a shame spiral that likely is causing him to use and likely caused this current lapse. I am having a hard time swallowing that I am causing him to use and/or shame. Thoughts? I'd love all y'all's thoughts on that.

The shame is his.  He must take ownership of how he feels.  He uses, how he feels afterward is on him.  It is his.  The bounderies set were to get your marriage through a super tough time.  My husband would get mad when I saw him tracking on women.  I stated that it was not acceptable.  I think it bothers us because our confidence in ourselves and our trust in them takes such a hit.

You might try reading Hold Me Tight by Sue Johnson. With him. It was helpful to us.

Hypatia156 said:

One friend recently told me that she believes my being active in his recovery (Note: I'm not his accountability partner, he has one here that's working well), and his having to tell me about using is causing a shame spiral that likely is causing him to use and likely caused this current lapse. I am having a hard time swallowing that I am causing him to use and/or shame. Thoughts? I'd love all y'all's thoughts on that.

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This is a very complex issue. Only your partner can honestly assess if your being active in his recovery is causing him to use. If you ask him about his feelings on this he might give you an honest answer or he might mislead you. There is absolutely no way of knowing. You are doing what you believe to be the right thing and are being supportive. You shouldn't feel any remorse about this.

I can only comment for myself but the shame (I'm not sure if I can honestly say I feel shame. My porn use started as an adolescent. I wasn't in a relationship. I didn't understand how this could develop into an addiction and when I used when I was in a relationship I knew in my heart that I didn't want to use. I feel resentment towards myself for not having been strong enough in the past. I also feel frustration) I feel as a result of my porn use is mine to bear. Nothing can remove this. I have chosen to beat this addiction for the sake of my partner. It has taken me several attempts but my resolve this time is firm. There can be no going back to porn. Unless you have been an addict then it's impossible to understand the difficulty addicts have in breaking their dependency. The problem for addicts is that we are so closely fettered to our addiction that our peripheral vision becomes impaired. We just don't see the full extent of the harm we cause to our loved ones. In my case it's not intentional. I don't want to use porn. I can't stress this enough. I do not want to use porn. Knowing this is one thing. Trying to override a reward circuit that is programmed into our DNA is another challenge. However, it can be done.

Only your partner can assess if your active involvement is beneficial or if he would prefer to only be accountable to someone on this forum. Your position on this is laudable. It clearly demonstrates the enormous value you place on your relationship with your partner. Sadly, he may be so bogged down in his addiction that his ability to see the value of your commitment to your relationship is severely impaired. This must be incredibly painful for you. The problem is that your judgement is not distorted by an addiction to porn, while your partner's is.

What can you take from this? Firstly, it is not your fault that your partner is addicted to porn. What can you do to be more alluring than porn? Nothing! You can, in no way, compete with porn. There is no woman alive who can match the novelty that porn offers an addict. More importantly, you shouldn't even have to try to compete with porn. The emphasis is on your partner to extricate himself from this cycle of porn use and your true value in your relationship will cease to be obscured by his addiction.

One of the problems with addiction is that force of habit often compels us to use. If your partner has a smart phone then discuss switching to a basic handset without internet access. When I found myself in situations where I had no access to porn it was easy. I didn't feel any cravings. As soon as I knew I had the opportunity to look for it then the cravings were strong. Perhaps you could create an environment where all temptation is eliminated. Extended periods without access to porn does lessen the cravings. Relapsing is, unfortunately, very common with addicts. I have relapsed many times. It must be very distressing when you discovered your partner was using again but it will probably take several runs and relapses before he finally beats his addiction. I'm sure you know this and it's a horrible thing to have to acknowledge, but sadly this is the reality for many addicts. As long as he remains committed to the long term goal then I'm sure you'll both be successful.

I wish you both luck. With your dedication I hope your partner can break his addiction and you can both enjoy a mutually fulfilling relationship.